Will You Be Proud Of Your Decisions 20 Years From Now?

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, number one bestselling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show, Ramsey personality Ken Coleman.

[2] He's my co -host today as we talk about your life, and that includes your job and how you make more money so that you make this whole wealth -building thing work.

[3] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[4] Lou starts this hour in Fort Myers, Florida.

[5] Hi, Lou.

[6] How are you?

[7] I'm so good.

[8] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[9] How are you doing?

[10] Better than I deserve.

[11] What's up?

[12] So I am 28 years old.

[13] My husband and I also have four children, our youngest being almost two.

[14] So about two years ago, I graduated with my bachelor's degree, started at a job that I love.

[15] My husband makes about 55.

[16] I bring 50 plus.

[17] We've gotten ourselves into some crazy debt.

[18] And I've been following you for about a month now.

[19] I had no idea what to do with my finances.

[20] Ask my dad.

[21] He gave me your book.

[22] But I'm still, I feel so lost because at the end of the month, we're still short 500.

[23] So I don't know how to piece this back together.

[24] One thought was may be selling our home, we can probably get about $75 to $100 ,000 more than it's worth, put it towards a new home and pay off our debt, but I don't know what solutions we have right now.

[25] Okay.

[26] So where's your husband?

[27] Why are you doing this by yourself?

[28] He's not so great with money.

[29] Neither are you.

[30] I mean, I'm not either.

[31] No, no, I'm not either.

[32] But I'm like driven to get this back on track yeah okay well drive right up into his face and tell him he's going to help right we are going to fix this mess that we made because part of what you're struggling with here is you're carrying the emotional burden of the financial stress all by yourself and that really causes your brain to get cloudy and you can't see stuff so you've got to be working on this together as a team.

[33] I'm not expecting either one of you to become financial geniuses in 22 seconds.

[34] That's okay.

[35] I wasn't either when I went broke.

[36] I've done stupid.

[37] I've got a PhD and D -U -M -B.

[38] I know what it looks like, okay?

[39] So it's okay to not know, but it's not okay to not participate.

[40] Right.

[41] So the two of you together are going to lock arms and here we go down the yellow brick road.

[42] Ready?

[43] How much debt do you have?

[44] Um, when I put it all into my little spreadsheet I made it comes out to 40 almost 42 ,000 before my student loans and my student loans are 20 ,000 so what is the 42 break it down for me um so we have my vehicle um we owe on a couple credit car what do you owe on your car I owe 20 ,000 on my car we owe 20 ,000 on your car we owe 20 ,000 From the car I drive.

[45] Okay.

[46] And then you have credit card debt of how much?

[47] The credit card debt all comes.

[48] It's probably the majority of it to be completely transparent.

[49] Well, you said you had 42 plus a 20 student loan, right?

[50] Yeah.

[51] So that means another 22 in credit card debt.

[52] Have you got anything other than credit card debt and a student loan?

[53] No. Okay.

[54] Just lots of credit cards.

[55] Okay, cool.

[56] all right well that's because you've been living crisis to crisis and every year every month credit card saves your butt exactly and like with if we can't make a payment goes on the credit card and you figured out that this is not sustainable you're going to end up hitting the wall eventually and exploding so you're that's a very wise observation on your part this is not a sustainable methodology all right so $60 ,000 in debt including your car 62 and your student loan and everything and you make a hundred and you have four kids Okay.

[57] Now, how much is your house payment?

[58] That is 1850 a month.

[59] That's okay.

[60] All right.

[61] Not great, but okay.

[62] Okay, so here's what we're going to do.

[63] We're going to start fresh.

[64] Pretend like you were doing this with a blank yellow pad, and the first thing I want you to do is right, then are you, have you guys been getting a tax refund?

[65] Minimal, but yeah.

[66] Okay.

[67] Then that's not the answer.

[68] Okay.

[69] I would stop all investing.

[70] Anybody putting any money in a 401k?

[71] Yes.

[72] Okay.

[73] Temporarily.

[74] Because you're actually funding that with a credit card right now.

[75] Because you're not bringing the money home, so you're short.

[76] So, you follow me?

[77] Yes.

[78] Okay.

[79] So then what do you do for a living?

[80] I work for a government.

[81] And your degree is in what?

[82] Public safety.

[83] Okay.

[84] So you work for law enforcement or in the...

[85] In an investigative rule.

[86] Okay.

[87] All right.

[88] And your husband does what?

[89] He does construction.

[90] Good.

[91] Okay.

[92] So here's the general rule of them.

[93] There's three things you can do to get this working.

[94] One thing you can do that will help get it.

[95] If you will get organized and do a detailed budget on the every dollar app that I'm going to give you for free okay I'm going to give you the premium version for free I'm going to pay for it and you and your husband sit down tonight and you give every dollar that is coming into your house before the month begins an assignment and obviously we're not going to plan to be 500 in the hole we're going to break even and then we're going to stick to the plan but what's happening is is you're living from crisis to crisis rather than buy a plan when you do a detailed plan and both of you were in agreement because he's going to help her I'm going to kill him okay he's going to help all right so he's got to help that's part of his job he doesn't have to become a financial genius but he's got to sit down with you and the two of you got to look at this this is sixth grade math anybody can do it now it's actually fourth grade math but the um in most schools but the uh um so it's addition and subtractions we're going to put the number that we make home and take home at the top of the page we're going to give every one of those dollars a name getting organized will make you feel like you got a raise getting in front of it instead of trying to catch up from behind it telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went you'll feel like you got to raise that's thing one thing two is you're going to stop all spending you're not going out to eat ever again you're not going to be in a restaurant unless you're working there you're not going on vacation you ain't got any money you're a broke people okay broke people don't go on vacation broke people work and you got to work to get this mess cleaned up for a while, okay?

[96] And then the third thing is, and Ken, this is your turn after 13 minutes, finally.

[97] You know, the third thing is your husband has a wonderful career called construction, and he can go make a ton of money right now, extra money, working extra.

[98] And she might be able to as well.

[99] Could she do some private investigation work?

[100] I don't know what your limitations are, but both of you've got to say, what can we do to bring in more money?

[101] If you do what Dave said and you pause the 401K, you immediately have a rate.

[102] So now we've got margin, but he needs to be working weekends, nights.

[103] He's picking up any kind of laboring work that he can do to see if he can generate.

[104] You can swing a hammer, you can make $40 .50 an hour.

[105] $1 ,500 extra per month.

[106] It makes serious money right now.

[107] And so that's how we actually fund going through the baby steps.

[108] And let's knock out some of these credit cards.

[109] Consider selling the car.

[110] We didn't have time to mention that.

[111] If you have any kind of equity in that car, I would sell that car as well.

[112] and that'll really fast forward this situation.

[113] Yeah, income up, out go down, and get organized.

[114] And this will work for you.

[115] Hold on.

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[124] Ken Coleman -Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[125] Open phones at AAA -825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[126] Thank you for joining us, America.

[127] We're glad you are here.

[128] Jake is with us in Nashville.

[129] Hi, Jake.

[130] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[131] Hey, guys.

[132] How are you?

[133] Better than I deserve.

[134] What's up?

[135] Okay, so I am getting married to my fiancé in October.

[136] Congratulations.

[137] Thank you, thank you.

[138] How old are you?

[139] I am, I'm 28.

[140] Cool.

[141] How old is she?

[142] She's 28.

[143] Awesomeness.

[144] Good.

[145] Yeah, so I am marrying into $100 ,000 a student loan debt.

[146] She is, she is awesome, isn't she?

[147] Yeah, she is awesome.

[148] I have a home that has about $100 ,000 in equity in it, and she has an opportunity to move to Dallas to kind of further and kickstart her career more and kind of help build out of office there.

[149] I don't know if that's the best way to go.

[150] Other than that, we only have about $20 ,000, $21 ,000 in debt, and that's just two cars.

[151] So, really, it's just student loans, and we can probably not.

[152] So 21 in cars and 80 in student loans?

[153] No, about 100 ,000 in student loans.

[154] So 120.

[155] Yes, sir.

[156] Get you out of debt?

[157] Yes, sir.

[158] And you make what?

[159] I make 55.

[160] What is she making or going to make?

[161] She makes 105 right now, but that can grow.

[162] There's a bonus coming up this year, so she'll just.

[163] kind of grow more from there.

[164] What does she do?

[165] She's in technology consulting.

[166] So if she goes to Dallas, what are you going to do in Dallas?

[167] Well, that was the thing.

[168] So I'm in IT support.

[169] So I kind of, I just got in about two years ago into IT support, so I'm kind of growing still.

[170] So let me get this straight.

[171] Your wife is in IT, and you're here to support her.

[172] I see what he did.

[173] Did you see I did that?

[174] That was impressive.

[175] That was quick.

[176] Are you open to moving to Dallas?

[177] That's the question.

[178] that I'm trying to dig into.

[179] Yes.

[180] Is this settled?

[181] Is this the plan?

[182] We're like 90 -10 on it.

[183] I mean, if you don't go to Dallas, what's she going to do?

[184] Um, she's going to keep on doing what she's doing.

[185] Dallas would let her be in an office more, and she's fully remote now.

[186] So being there, she'd be in an office more and be able to, like, be out and network more.

[187] Will she get a bump?

[188] Will she get a pay bump?

[189] Um, it wasn't stated that she would exactly, but it would say that she would move progressively faster.

[190] Okay.

[191] That, that's a little weird.

[192] She didn't get a job.

[193] Did she get a job offer with an actual?

[194] No, no. She's already working for them remote, but you're saying by being in the office, by moving to the home office and moving into the office, she'll have more opportunity to move up.

[195] Is that right?

[196] Exactly.

[197] Okay.

[198] She's not changing companies.

[199] I'm sorry.

[200] I assumed.

[201] No. Gotcha, got you, got you.

[202] All right.

[203] So now she's working remote for a company.

[204] that is in Dallas.

[205] So sell the house if it's here.

[206] Yeah.

[207] If you're going to Dallas, the house is sold either way.

[208] Even if you weren't broke, I'm not keeping a house in Nashville.

[209] No, no, no, exactly.

[210] And that was a thought where they were like, we could rent this and maybe rent Dallas.

[211] No, no, no, no, you're a hundred and twenty thousand dollars in debt.

[212] You're not a landlord.

[213] Yeah.

[214] Yeah.

[215] Yeah.

[216] So, yeah, sell the house, um, pay off a bunch of the debt, finish paying off the debt, raise your right in, both of you and swear, we're never borrowing any more money.

[217] And then we're going to start saving like crazy to, for a down payment.

[218] because we're going to be renting in Dallas.

[219] That was my next question.

[220] Renting in Dallas is probably the best thing to do.

[221] It's the only thing to do.

[222] You don't have any money and you're in debt.

[223] Exactly.

[224] So, I mean, unless you want to go into some stupid plan or something with these houses, I mean, you can do that, but no. I mean, the house won't even clear the student loan and the cars.

[225] No, no, it won't.

[226] So you've still got to clean up the cars or whatever is left on the student loan, whichever way you go at this, I probably pay off the cars first, and then the rest of the chunk of the student loan, and then that last 20 ,000 a student loan, you push on through it when both of you were in Dallas making $150 ,000 a year, renting the cheapest possible thing you can find.

[227] You're broke newlyweds.

[228] It's okay.

[229] You got nothing to prove, dude.

[230] Go rent a garage apartment out back of some rich old lady's house for 500 a month, and you cut her grass.

[231] Something like that, right?

[232] That kind of deal, because this is we're getting started with our married life, finishing up getting out of debt, saving up a big down payment to get us a nice home later.

[233] This is what we're doing.

[234] We're not trying to rent something.

[235] Everybody's like, oh, this is a really nice place you rented.

[236] Translation, you're going to be there a while because you spent all the money on rents to saving up for a down payment.

[237] Yeah.

[238] I just feel like right now where we should be, we should have more in the bank than we do.

[239] We only have our $1 ,000 emergency fund, and then everything else is getting thrown at the sweaty.

[240] And so we're even doing DoorDash and Uber from the side just to try to get more.

[241] coming.

[242] Good, good.

[243] All that's good.

[244] And, you know, as you, as you approach the wedding of October, I mean, I guess first of September or middle August, we put your house on the market.

[245] Yeah.

[246] You could end up homeless for a short period of time, but you can survive that.

[247] Yeah, we would probably live with family or something here.

[248] Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, or roll the wedding up or something.

[249] I don't know.

[250] Probably not.

[251] You're probably not everything booked and all that.

[252] But yeah, anyway, yeah, sell the house, get out of debt, restart, and save the emergency save up.

[253] And honestly, the fields you all are in, your side hustles ought to be tech, not door -dash.

[254] I was just right to say, you know how these small business people can't afford a tech person, but you start telling everybody that you know in Nashville and in Dallas when you get there that you do contract, buy the job, tech support.

[255] you can make way more money per hour with your expertise than you can driving around delivering somebody chilies yeah unless we're unless we're in the tech field those of us that are entrepreneurs are what's known as clueless we have a tech department here at ramsie one person's full -time job is fixing stuff i break that's how bad we entrepreneurs are okay so it's like i i can't work this thing there's something broken on my phone yeah it's because dave you push these seven buttons in the wrong order.

[256] Well, screw it, fix it.

[257] And so that's what we do around here.

[258] And so guys like me are everywhere, dude.

[259] It's exactly right.

[260] I'd be putting that on Facebook, social media, everybody you know at church.

[261] You wouldn't believe.

[262] You might have some old farmer go, you know, my grandson stopped doing this for me five years ago.

[263] There's small businesses everywhere that need basic tech support and the amount of money.

[264] And it's a lot better than delivering chili.

[265] Yeah.

[266] That's a no brain.

[267] Same thing with your life.

[268] And while we're preaching about making more money.

[269] When you get to Dallas and you get out of debt, I would be looking at BethelTech.

[270] Betheltec .net .net.

[271] I endorse them.

[272] They've got a nine -month program.

[273] Ramsey listeners can do it for less than 15 grand.

[274] And here's why I'm telling you to consider it.

[275] Just talk to them.

[276] But multiple opportunities for somebody like you to go from tech support to move into coding, data analytics, AI, cybersecurity.

[277] I mean, I just name three fields in technology that have a quick path to six figures.

[278] Yeah, they're all 100 grand and above.

[279] Entry level.

[280] So, you know, I would be looking at increasing your income.

[281] Now you two are looking at making, you know, 200, 250 pretty quickly.

[282] And you've made the oath.

[283] Dave had you raise your right hand.

[284] So now you're building wealth quickly.

[285] You did it, man. You can do it.

[286] Congratulations on the marriage, man. Hang on.

[287] I'm going to put the two of you through Financial Peace University.

[288] If you promise, Kelly, that you will take the class, I will give it to you for free along with the every dollar premium.

[289] That's our wedding gift to the two of you.

[290] All married couples that are listening right now go, God, I wish I had known that when we got married.

[291] So we're going to give it to you so that you know it when you get married.

[292] So go do it, dude.

[293] Seriously, it's free to you.

[294] Hang on, Miss Kelly will pick up and get you signed up and get you going.

[295] So good question.

[296] A lot of opportunity in front of them.

[297] They have a lot of upside on those careers.

[298] I want to make sure that young people caught what you said there.

[299] It wasn't Dave just being fun.

[300] This idea of selling a house and getting a huge chunk of their debt out of the way, we're excited for them and it makes sense because they're moving.

[301] But if you don't change your behavior, all you're doing is is just filling up one hole and before you know it, you'll be digging another.

[302] It's very important that you go never again.

[303] We're not going to do this again and not just use the convenience of a house sale to bail you out.

[304] You've got to be careful with that.

[305] Exactly.

[306] And the answer changed.

[307] as if you were staying in town because the last thing I'm going to sell is your house.

[308] I'm going to sell everything else you own before we try that.

[309] This is The Ramsey Show.

[310] Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success.

[311] So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website.

[312] Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step.

[313] Learn more at Churchill Mortgage .com.

[314] This is a paid advertisement, an MLS ID 1591, and MLS Consumer Access .org, Equal Housing Lender.

[315] 1749, Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[316] Ken Coleman -Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[317] Thank you for joining us.

[318] Well, the book that we did, The Total Money Makeover, is 20 years old this year.

[319] Taylor Swift was starting her career.

[320] The iPhone was not yet invented.

[321] Some of you weren't born.

[322] And this book came out.

[323] And, uh, wow.

[324] Now we've sold over 10 million of them, helping people get out of debt and build wealth.

[325] And so we're celebrating.

[326] The interesting thing is the total money makeover has had several makeovers through the 20 years.

[327] Um, I think we're on the fifth or sixth edition.

[328] edition now.

[329] A couple years ago, I swore I wasn't going to do another edition, and now we did the 20th anniversary edition, so I lied.

[330] But yeah, so a new edition, a brand new edition with cleaned up all the statistics and everything's current now and updated and expanded advice on mortgages and car loans, investing for retirement, paying for college, buy now, pay later, traps.

[331] And if you like audio books, I sat down and re -recorded this.

[332] It had not been done in 20 years.

[333] So the audio book is now current.

[334] again and for the total money makeover 20th anniversary edition and every book includes three months of every dollar premium for free there's a QR code in it that you can scan oops i just told you way to get it for free without buying it oh well um if you see it at barns and noble just flip it open and hit the QR code and you'll get three months free and then put it back on the shelf don't buy the book no i'm kidding that's what i just did i think but anyway yeah okay so marketing guys are going to love me Ramsey solutions .com slash store or anywhere great books are sold 20 years worth of success stories are cheering you on the total money makeover 20th anniversary edition Katie is in Indianapolis Hi Katie welcome to the Ramsey show Hi Hey what's up I would know about the babysat I was wondering what should I do I'm currently homeless I have three kids.

[335] I'm 27, and my annual income is 28 ,800.

[336] Okay.

[337] You don't need to do anything about the baby steps right now.

[338] We've got to get you in housing and get food and lights covered, and then we'll worry about the baby steps.

[339] You're drowning right now.

[340] Where are you living in your car or what?

[341] Yes.

[342] It's in my car, and then every now and then family lets me stay there.

[343] with the three who's got the three kids my grandma does okay and so they have a place to live you're in your car sometimes correct okay how'd you get there um i was in a very toxic relationship and it was time for me okay and uh when you make 28 000 and you don't have any rent Where's your money going right now?

[344] Well, most of it is to help my grandma out with my three kids.

[345] Why are you not staying with grandmother and why only the kids?

[346] He feels as if I need to learn a lesson from this.

[347] Say that again?

[348] She feels she needs to learn a lesson.

[349] So grandmother said you need to learn a lesson.

[350] I'm not taking you in.

[351] Correct.

[352] You have no other family or friends that you can crash with until you get some stability um no i don't have friends but the toxic relationship i wasn't able to talk to nobody i was always allowed to go to work and come so she she your grandmother uh told you not to get involved with this duber and you did um no she didn't really think so what lesson is that you're supposed to be learning i'm confused that i need to make better choices Well, that's freaking brilliant.

[353] Okay.

[354] No kidding.

[355] What's your job?

[356] Tell us about your job.

[357] I work as a machinist.

[358] I do CNC operator.

[359] I've been there for a year now.

[360] For who?

[361] Is it local?

[362] Excuse me. Is it private or is it public center?

[363] Yes, it's a machinist, you said.

[364] It's for, like, it's a foreign company.

[365] company, they work out of Japan, but they're locally here.

[366] Okay.

[367] What are you making per hour?

[368] $20.

[369] Okay.

[370] And how much, how many hours are you working a week?

[371] 40.

[372] Okay.

[373] What are you doing with the rest of your time?

[374] The rest of my time, I'm usually just trying to figure out places and programs to help my situation.

[375] Yeah, good for you.

[376] Okay.

[377] All right.

[378] So the first thing is we've got to get you, um, into a little apartment and get with your kids and you take your kids life back over and quit giving your grandmother money who wants you to stay on the street that's asinine um so you know you need to get your family back together and get in a situation if she wants to watch them during the day that's fine while you're at work but you need a home and a place to land obviously and we got to get sustainable and back up on your feet and we'll help you with that and help you get going okay um are you associated with a church of any kind there in Indianapolis?

[379] I'm not.

[380] Okay.

[381] All right.

[382] What I'm going to do when we get through talking in a minute is I'm going to put your own hold and Kelly's going to pick up.

[383] We're going to put you with one of our Ramsey coaches and in the area.

[384] And it's not going to cost you a thing.

[385] We're going to pay for it and help you.

[386] Okay.

[387] They're going to help you get plugged into a new family called a church.

[388] Because you need some extra family based on the ones you've got.

[389] And then if you're going to be a new family.

[390] want to work out with your grandmother to watch your children while you have a place to live, that's fine.

[391] Your new family then can come around you and help you get into a new place, have a church come alongside you and help you get a deposit and get started.

[392] And then, because I think if you were in and paying rent, making $30 ,000 on something cheap, you could make a do.

[393] Do you?

[394] Yes, I do.

[395] Okay.

[396] We just got to get you started.

[397] It's just hard to get started because right now everything's Everything's just spiraling, right?

[398] Yes, absolutely.

[399] And it's, like, really hard because I feel like, when I feel like I got something and figured out how I'm going forward, it's just like 10 other things just come at me. Yeah, that's generally the way it is.

[400] Yeah, these, is this, and, and, you know, you've had a really tough couple of years here dealing with some guy who told you you weren't worth anything.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Yeah, and you are worth it.

[403] That's right.

[404] okay um everybody has made bad choices including your freaking grandmother um so and including me and so we're going to help you and we'll get you plugged into a church and and them and our coaches will help you get into a little place some some way or another and help you figure out how you can sustain that then then your first goal katie is simply this i just want you to get in the rhythm of living a sustainable life.

[405] What that means is you make enough to buy food, rent, lights, and clothes and gas in the car.

[406] That's all I need you to make for right now.

[407] If you can just get the rhythm of doing that, if you simply could exist with with a little bit of wiggle room for six months and you had your own place, your own food, your own kids, that would be a huge huge leap from where we are today.

[408] Agreed?

[409] Agreed.

[410] Then later we'll worry about a total money makeover.

[411] That's right.

[412] Right now we need to get back up to survival level.

[413] And Katie, the number one thing our coach is going to help you with and you need to commit to doing what they teach you is budgeting.

[414] You're making enough right now to survive.

[415] You really are if you start pulling back on what you're giving grandmother, okay?

[416] Okay.

[417] So really lock in.

[418] They're going to teach you how to budget.

[419] This is a massive gift.

[420] Yeah.

[421] And this is also going to give you confidence because right now you're suffering from a lack of confidence because you're kicking yourself kind of in the rear end about the decisions you've made.

[422] Yeah.

[423] Right alongside your grandmother.

[424] You need some confidence.

[425] Yeah.

[426] And ask the coach when you're meeting with them.

[427] What a proper amount to allow for grandmother to watch your children.

[428] I kind of am a little bit afraid grandmother's taking advantage of you on the moment.

[429] money.

[430] It sounds like she's sucking up all the money, which is trapping you, or she ought to be helping you figure out way to get up on your own after you made some bad choices.

[431] That's what she ought to be doing, and she's not.

[432] So I'm a little worried about the amounts involved here.

[433] Hang on.

[434] Kelly will pick up and we'll help you get this going, kiddo.

[435] And you call us back if you need some help.

[436] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[437] Hey good folks, the back to school madness is upon us.

[438] It's hitting us right now.

[439] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on my family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects and those are the things that make our life even worth living here's what i've learned when it comes to taking care of me i have to put on my oxygen mask first and that means that i have to do the things that keep me well and whole and i know that you have to do those same things too.

[440] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[441] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[442] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[443] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[444] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself and most importantly how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[445] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[446] Never skip therapy day.

[447] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[448] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[449] That's BetterHelp H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[450] Ken Coleman -Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[451] Today's question comes from Jennifer in Georgia.

[452] My husband and I both work outside of the home and have two school age kits prioritizing time together as a family is challenging with our current schedules.

[453] We've been alternating picking up the kids from school based on our work schedules.

[454] This is not ideal and our employers are getting tired of it.

[455] Together we earn over $400 ,000.

[456] The only debt is our home.

[457] I carry our health insurance through my employer.

[458] I was recently offered a position that will give me the flexibility or family needs.

[459] However, it is an hourly position.

[460] with no benefits at $63 an hour.

[461] Is it foolish to leave a well -paying job with benefits that I love in order to spend more time with the kids?

[462] My heart tells me one thing, my brain tells me another.

[463] Well, this is where I wish I had somebody on the phone, Dave.

[464] But if we are collectively earning over $400 ,000 and we like our work, the word love actually is used here, I am paying somebody to pick up the kids, maybe a college student, or or a grandmother, I just don't understand the problem here as to why we would leave a job we love when we have no debt except the home and 400K income, and the problem is picking up kids after school.

[465] And that's the way this is laid out, Dave.

[466] So I think there's something more here under the surface, but I would not take the hourly position in this scenario at all.

[467] Yeah, she switched gears in the middle of the email.

[468] That's the problem.

[469] She sets it up as it's a work schedule thing we can't pick up we have trouble picking up the kids the employers are aggravated but then towards the bottom she says is it worse is it foolishly well -paying job with benefits that i live in order to spend more time with the kids right so which is it because picking them up is not the issue it's the second one which is why she's asking the question and so when somebody says my heart tells me one thing my brain tells me another the heart is with the kids wanting flexibility the brain is going this is foolish and so what you have to do there is you get the head and the heart on the same page by laying out those two voices you know i mean there's two or three possibilities here but it's always amazing to me that the first thing we do is we figure out the only way to solve the problem is make less right um that's not always the way you saw the problem so let's pretend that there was a third option if things are exactly as you feel like they are Jennifer.

[470] Here's a third option.

[471] You change jobs to a job where you make more money than you make now and has the flexibility for you to pick up your kids.

[472] Oh, and thought of that, still we think we have to take a pay cut.

[473] No, change jobs where you make more money and has the flexibility.

[474] But somehow we think in order to do work that I love or in order to have all work life balance.

[475] I have to make less always.

[476] That's bull crap.

[477] Bull crap.

[478] I believe you, believe you me. You would trade incomes with me. And you know what model at worth like balance is?

[479] It's amazing.

[480] I do whatever the flip I want, whenever the flip I want.

[481] And so because I built a life and built a career in such a way that it does that over a period of time.

[482] So that that's what you can do.

[483] I mean, and so you get to choose these things.

[484] You're not trapped.

[485] The second, thing is you could just simply hire a nanny and or someone to do some pick up the kids and do some after school care type thing you can afford it uh the third thing is every time not every time i always suspect every time i suspect when someone questions that they don't have enough time with their family i always want to put a camera in their house and see how many hours a month the television is on because that's not spending time with your family, that's spending time with Netflix.

[486] So throw a brick through your television and then see how your time increases with your children.

[487] It'll be amazing.

[488] So, and I'll lay your stupid Facebook down and your stupid Instagram down and your stupid TikTok down and quit going down on YouTube rabbit holes and then saying, I want to spend more time with my children.

[489] Meanwhile, I've got a screen stuck to my nose.

[490] So, I know what the numbers are, statistically, nationally, of how many times of the average person looks at their phone 2 ,500 times a day.

[491] Yeah.

[492] Is that bizarre?

[493] It's like, it's like you're, like, you know, if you just wash your hands that much, you'd be in the hospital.

[494] Right.

[495] So, you know, the other thing I'd add to this, Dave, is, I'd really want her to define what more time is.

[496] Yeah.

[497] So once we define what more time is, then it may be a situation where she wants to be a stay -at -home mother.

[498] And that's the greatest job in the world.

[499] Big fan of that.

[500] At that point, you are taking a massive pay cut, but it's for a season.

[501] And you can always get back into the workforce.

[502] So this comes down to what are we prioritizing?

[503] What do we mean when we say more time with the kids?

[504] If you're saying, I want 10 more hours with them, well, then that's utilizing weekends and nights well, as you're saying.

[505] So that has to be defined.

[506] Yeah.

[507] In 2022, the average, according to Google, who knows everything, so I'm questioning that.

[508] But in 2022, the average person that is 18 years old and older spent three hours a day on television.

[509] Wow.

[510] I literally think of that when I hear that day, I go, how do you find the time?

[511] If I run yesterday's schedule through between my work and my personal life, I don't know how you find time if you go to bed at a DC.

[512] an hour.

[513] That's probably part of it.

[514] But I go to bed early.

[515] I mean, and I'm not saying this lady necessarily is, but every time I hear, we don't know to spend more time with my children.

[516] So I'm going to take a job making half of what I used to make.

[517] Before I do that, I would unplug my television and my Facebook and all social media, detox from the screens and see how much time you really are missing with your children.

[518] Because I, the average family in America is being destroyed by screens.

[519] We know that.

[520] The data is in.

[521] It's out of control.

[522] and there's just, man, there's stuff everywhere on it.

[523] So, yeah, and yet we're on every one of those platforms talking to you about the stuff we do, so we're trying to help.

[524] Interestingly enough, Dave, I looked it up.

[525] This is the 20th anniversary of Total Money Makeover, the best financial book ever written.

[526] We talked about earlier.

[527] Facebook started in 2004 as well.

[528] Wow.

[529] But came on late, the biggest social media platform in the world in 2004.

[530] It did better than the Total Money Makeover did.

[531] Well, yeah, but it's still two iconic things.

[532] What's the kid's name that did that?

[533] What's his name?

[534] Mark Zuckerberg.

[535] Yeah, I've not got a Zusserberg level of net worth.

[536] It didn't, Total Money Makeover just didn't keep up.

[537] Don't cry for me, Argentina.

[538] Nobody's worried about your net worth.

[539] All right.

[540] Come on.

[541] This guy.

[542] This guy.

[543] He's done well, folks.

[544] Oh, my gosh.

[545] Interestingly enough, MySpace was the big platform in 2004.

[546] Where's that?

[547] Crickets.

[548] Anyway.

[549] Yeah, nobody knows.

[550] Nobody needed that trivia, but I gave it to you.

[551] I did not realize the Facebook was that young.

[552] I thought it was older than that.

[553] Total Money Makeover in Facebook.

[554] age kind of fun to think about.

[555] That means that we sold that book and put it on the bestseller list with no social media.

[556] That is correct.

[557] No YouTube.

[558] No algorithm.

[559] Isn't that amazing?

[560] But there used to be bookstores back then.

[561] We would go into your town and sign books at these things called bookstores.

[562] And the television stations had local programs.

[563] People watch TV like 60 minutes.

[564] There were newspapers back then.

[565] The actual paper.

[566] Man, I missed the newspapers.

[567] I'm getting all nostalgic.

[568] Nothing like black newspaper print on your fingers in the morning with a cup of coffee.

[569] All right.

[570] So what would life be back, be like, without a smartphone or Facebook?

[571] Be great, actually.

[572] Make it so.

[573] Well, that's kind of what we're talking about with Ms. Jennifer here.

[574] I'm just saying, I'm not accusing her necessarily of doing that.

[575] I'm just every time I hear a question like this that we can't find the time to spend with our kids, so I need to quit working as much.

[576] It could be true, but it could be that if you just never touch social media again and you never watch television more than an hour a week, or a set movie for a week.

[577] Sharon and I watched a movie the other night.

[578] I hadn't done that long time.

[579] 99 % of the time, that's things sitting on the wall dark and we're reading a book.

[580] But we're all farts.

[581] I mean, that's, you know, no question about it.

[582] No comment.

[583] Next question, please.

[584] Yeah, that's it.

[585] Take it from there.

[586] Was it on a service or was it cable that you watched that movie?

[587] That movie was on Netflix.

[588] Oh, okay.

[589] I don't have cable.

[590] You don't have cable?

[591] Yeah, I'm disconnected or whatever you call it.

[592] Wow, Dave Ramsey is unplugged, folks.

[593] I'm unplugged.

[594] I'm just unplugged.

[595] Have you ever heard of the internet, Ken?

[596] Well, yes, Al Gore, Tennessee had created it.

[597] Yeah, I heard that.

[598] If you don't believe me, ask him, yeah.

[599] I got all kinds of random trivia for you today, folks.

[600] Not why you listen to the show.

[601] That's just bonus.

[602] But it is about balance, and don't always assume that your only choices are negative choices.

[603] If they are, that means you don't have enough choices yet.

[604] Go get you some more options, Ms. Jennifer.

[605] This is The Ramsey Show.

[606] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[607] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, number one, bestselling author of the book, Patreon.

[608] Check to Purpose and host of the Ken Coleman Show, my co -hokes, Ramsey Personality, Ken Coleman today.

[609] The phone numbers, AAA 825 -5 -225, Isaac's in Greensboro, North Carolina.

[610] Hi, Isaac.

[611] How are you?

[612] Hey, Dave, I'm great.

[613] How are you doing today?

[614] Better than I deserve.

[615] What's up?

[616] So just a quick summary of my situation.

[617] I'm 21.

[618] I live in Greensboro, of course.

[619] I live with my dad currently, and I'm hoping to move in with my lovely girlfriend at the end of this year.

[620] I have no debt.

[621] My credit is really poor, though.

[622] It's about $600.

[623] And I have $3 ,000 in cash saved up.

[624] My question is, I just don't really know what would be the best course of action here.

[625] I make about $18 an hour.

[626] I made my budget just the other day with my friend who was the one who introduced me to your show.

[627] He's my best friend.

[628] And I'm on course to save about $1 ,300 a month every month.

[629] Good for you.

[630] So I don't know what it would be best to put a down payment down and try to squeeze myself into a home around the end of this year or if I just focus on renting.

[631] Yeah, you're not going to be ready.

[632] And saving up for a down payment that way.

[633] Are you getting married at the end of the year?

[634] No, sir, I'm not.

[635] Okay.

[636] Then you don't need to be moving in or buying a house with somebody you're not married to, for sure.

[637] That's going to get you into a mess.

[638] So what I would tell you to do is simply get you in an inexpensive place when you're ready to move out and just work like a crazy man. Pick up as many hours as you can pick up and let's pile up as big a pile of cash as we can.

[639] Do you have any debt at all, sir?

[640] technically I have about 10 ,000 to 15 ,000 in medical debt but I'm very thankful I think my grandparents are going to cover that for me I could be I could be wrong I don't really want to bank on that but I think that's what they're hoping to do for me obviously they don't have other than that I have I have zero debt obviously you wait well no you don't have zero debt you have 15 ,000 dollars in medical bills that's right okay and why if they're going to cover it do they not have the money to cover it um they do they just have not done it yet i need to approach the subject with them honestly it's yeah you need to get clarity on what you need to get clarity on what's going on so if they have the money and they're going to cover it they need to cover it it's okay if it's okay if they want to do that and it's okay if they don't want to do that too by the way it's their money and their choice but if they're going to do it they need to do it because otherwise you need to get to work on it yes sir okay so i would get that cleared up either by the grandparents or buy extra work and get you an inexpensive place to rent and then I would pile up as big a pile of money as I can so that when I get married to this lovely lady then we can talk about buying a house yes sir and that that's how I would do it if I was in your shoes Ken 18 what are you doing making $18 an hour I was like what do you do for a living I work as an EMT actually how many hours a week so I don't I don't I work 40 hours a week.

[641] And you're trained EMT?

[642] That's right.

[643] How old are you again?

[644] 21.

[645] I'm 21, sir.

[646] Why are you only making $18 as an EMT?

[647] That seems very low.

[648] Most of the other gigs actually make less than that.

[649] If I were starting at an ambulance company, I'd make $14 .15 an hour, which really isn't great at all.

[650] So what's the path look like?

[651] What's the next level of promotion?

[652] What are you going to do with your life?

[653] So I If I'm being completely honest I do have a dream for myself I want to I'm an artist by trade I'd love to do something with my art What kind of art You know I'm a cartoonist Okay Well that's a long road So I like that you've got the EMT My question is What is the next level up of pay Being an EMT Clearly you're young and you're on the lower rung of the ladder What's that look like moving up well I make I would I would make a 4 % raise every year staying here but outside of this you know unless I was working as a paramedic there's not really any clear path towards making a hell of a lot more money quite honestly okay well but the issue is we I originally was a firefighter but I have since switched out of that career I had cancer hence my medical bills and I just decided that That was not the career for me at that point.

[654] Well, so let's talk short term.

[655] I've been looking at a couple other options as well.

[656] What?

[657] What are those options?

[658] Mainly home inspection, actually.

[659] But I've had a couple family members not necessarily steer me away from that, but they've given me some reasons to think twice.

[660] What are there, hold on a second.

[661] A whole new career.

[662] Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[663] Well, first of all, let's start with what you can make.

[664] you can do pretty well in home inspection.

[665] I'm assuming you've researched that?

[666] Yes, I have.

[667] Okay, what's the number?

[668] Give me the number in your area for a talented and somebody who's getting work.

[669] What's that look like?

[670] Working for somebody else?

[671] No, no, no, no, no. No, I'm saying, as a home inspector, what does that pay look like in your area?

[672] Greensboro and North Carolina.

[673] About $80 ,000 a year.

[674] If I were taking the lower average, if I were taking like $5.

[675] And why is it that your family members think you should?

[676] didn't do that instead of $18 an hour?

[677] Well, the one family member, he's my uncle, he's a mortgage lender, and he, you know, gave me a couple reasons.

[678] And, of course, I told him, like, you know, I'll think twice about this, but I'm...

[679] I just asked, what did he say?

[680] He said, so most people aren't looking to move out of their homes these days because nobody really wants to go from...

[681] You're talking to a mortgage broker who's...

[682] having the worst year he's possibly had in the last 20 years.

[683] Of course he's going to tell you stay away from anything having to do with the real estate business.

[684] He's starving to death.

[685] Your uncle's lost weight.

[686] He isn't eating well.

[687] Oh, my gosh.

[688] Here's why I like it.

[689] Here's why I like that move.

[690] Isaac, I don't know how good of a cartoonist you are, but here's what I do know, even if you're really good at it, this is a long haul and you're going to have to show your work.

[691] You're going to do stuff on the side.

[692] You're going to have to just really be consistent.

[693] That's right.

[694] I would take a job like this.

[695] It's low stress.

[696] Obviously, you've got to be careful getting up on some roofs, getting in some crawl spaces, but you can set your own schedule.

[697] This would be a type of gig that would support an artistic endeavor, which you're going to need to just put time into it.

[698] It's like writing music.

[699] So I actually like this move in the short term for you because it just gives you a real huge jump financially and gives you some real stability.

[700] Let me tell you what I know, and Dave, actually, I'm going to see, I think a home inspector is in a premium demand right now.

[701] I know that when we sold recent houses, we were trying to get a good one.

[702] It took a while to schedule it.

[703] They're in demand.

[704] His uncle's is correct.

[705] Obviously, real estate volume is down.

[706] Well, sure.

[707] So the number of houses being sold, so the number of houses being inspected is way down.

[708] He is correct about that.

[709] But you can do that on the side while being an ENT.

[710] You can do that, and you can do your cartooning on the side.

[711] And, dude, go make some more money somewhere that's reasonable and honest, pile it up, talk about buying a house, then talk about moving in or talking about getting married and moving in.

[712] This is The Ramsey Show.

[713] You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan.

[714] But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance?

[715] Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill.

[716] And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work.

[717] That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help.

[718] They work for you, not the insurance company, so they find you the right health insurance, and they save you money.

[719] Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts, and whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things.

[720] Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't.

[721] Health Trust Financial is your one -stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options.

[722] They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying.

[723] Go to healthtrustfinancial .com today.

[724] HealthTrustfinancial .com.

[725] The countdown is on.

[726] Our brand new event is coming up next week.

[727] I've never done this before.

[728] I'm really having fun prepping for it.

[729] Dave Ramsey's investing essentials.

[730] Ken, I have gotten the inner nerd out.

[731] Oh boy.

[732] And I, the inner financial nerd.

[733] That's exciting.

[734] The little boy that loved to do math has recovered.

[735] Okay.

[736] And he is doing all these nerd stuff for this investing seminar because it's the nerd stuff I actually do when I'm personally investing.

[737] And so we're going to teach a whole high -end view of actually calculating returns properly on real estate and those kinds of things.

[738] So I'm going into how I pick a piece of real estate, how I pick a mutual fund, the principles that we use that Sharon and I use to invest and have used for 30 plus years.

[739] Is there going to be a whiteboard, big screen that you're kind of touching, Jim Kramer, sleeves rolled up.

[740] There's no Jim Kramer involved.

[741] I know.

[742] Say, you doing your day.

[743] No yelling.

[744] This is going to be, as a matter of fact, if truthfully, I was talking to the guys today, I said, if we add that other one more layer of this, someone's going to be in a coma.

[745] It's so boring.

[746] But I love it.

[747] It's such nerdy stuff.

[748] So if you want to know Dave Ramsey's in my personal playbook and you want to go to a place on investing, I've never taken you to.

[749] People, some people think I don't know how to do this stuff, of course, which is always humorous to me too.

[750] But anyway, we're doing this thing.

[751] Several thousand people have already signed up.

[752] up.

[753] It's crazy.

[754] It's a virtual event.

[755] It's May 21 and 22 in the evening.

[756] So, Tuesday and Wednesday, next Tuesday, next Wednesday, we're going to be doing this event in the evening.

[757] It's $199 for a ticket.

[758] Go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash events.

[759] And we're going to go all into 401k's mutual funds real estate, what not to do, how not to do investing, how not to view investing, everything about it.

[760] And two whole nights.

[761] So it's going to be about four hours of material and we're taking a live question answer George Camel's going to be in there helping me it's going to be fun and uh George has got out his inner nerd so it's a couple of nerd boys hanging out and if you want to come we'd love to have you yeah I know this it's going to be relevant so if you got questions like in in a inflation driven economy should I buy gold all that's going to be covered I know it is you're just going to cover it all aren't you yeah yeah we're going to go in it's going to be fun it's relevant and it's work for a long time it is Alex is in Seattle hi Alex how are you hi guys Thank you for my call.

[762] I'm doing well.

[763] I have a question.

[764] Speaking of investing, two months ago, I seemed to defaulted to baby step seven.

[765] And for two months, I've been trying to figure out what to do next, but to become a victim of paralysis by analysis.

[766] So I'm hoping to get some help.

[767] You paid off your house.

[768] Now you've got a pile of money and don't know what to do with it.

[769] Is that what you just said?

[770] Sure.

[771] You can get there that way, yeah.

[772] Is that pretty close or not?

[773] Uh, my grandpa passed away two months ago, and that allowed me to pay off my house with an inheritance.

[774] Oh, I'm sorry.

[775] I'm sorry.

[776] I'm sorry.

[777] He's smiling about what you did with it.

[778] So how much money do you have now?

[779] I have about $50 ,000 in cash.

[780] Okay.

[781] Uh, but my main, my main question is, uh, I don't make enough to max out my retirement.

[782] If I, if I did do that, I'd have like $100 a month, uh, extra.

[783] And that doesn't really give much margin in life.

[784] I have goals, but they're not immediate.

[785] What is your income, sir?

[786] $70 ,000 a year.

[787] Okay.

[788] All right.

[789] Are you putting 15 % of your income away in retirement?

[790] I'm putting 20, yes.

[791] Okay.

[792] And you don't have a house payment?

[793] No. Okay.

[794] So what you're saying is, is you don't have any more money to invest other than the 50K.

[795] Is that right?

[796] I mean that includes my emergency fund and yeah so you don't have any room in your budget to invest is what you're saying correct correct so what is it you're asking me I'm trying to figure out do I max it out or do I you can't max it out you told me that right right I could live on a shoe string budget with it maxed or I can no I'd have a little bit of life I'd have I'd have a little bit of life I mean, if you save, how old are you?

[797] I'm 32.

[798] Okay, if you save 20 % of $75 ,000, let's call it $15 ,000 a year, and you do that from 32 to 62, you're going to have $10 million.

[799] Right.

[800] I don't want to waste a blessing that I got for my grandpa, so I'm overthinking everything, most likely.

[801] Well, yeah, I think you are.

[802] And it's part of, you want to honor him, and that's a wonderful, wonderfully noble sentiment.

[803] sentiment, and I think you are honoring him.

[804] You paid off your house.

[805] If you can do any more investing, first you would do it in tax advantaged accounts, meaning tax -free Roths or traditionals, if you can do more.

[806] But you're telling me you can't do more and have a reasonable life, and I'm believing you at this point.

[807] Let's sit down and run your budget out.

[808] And, you know, I want to put as much in those things as I can put in those things and have a reasonable margin for life.

[809] And then, and then, you know, Dave, I would go back to the give, save spend to get him out of this paralysis of analysis.

[810] Save, like Dave just said, give some of it away.

[811] Bless your grandfather.

[812] Give something in his name.

[813] You get to choose.

[814] It doesn't have to be an enormous number.

[815] We're not trying to impress anybody here.

[816] Do something that's meaningful with it.

[817] And then do something fun with it.

[818] Just don't overthink it.

[819] Just be smart.

[820] By the way, the way you present, I don't think there's any chance you're going to waste your grandfather's money.

[821] I don't think that's possible.

[822] No. So give yourself a break.

[823] Think of those three buckets, as Dave said, write it out and go with what feels good.

[824] Matthews in Des Moines, Iowa.

[825] Hi, Matthew.

[826] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[827] Hi, Dave.

[828] Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. Sure.

[829] My wife and I have $15 ,000 in student loans.

[830] Oh, my God.

[831] And she's a first year resident physician.

[832] We currently make $120 ,000 per year and have $70 ,000 in savings.

[833] based off of our income now, we don't have to pay interest on those student loans.

[834] And I'm wondering, is it irresponsible to prioritize further saving, investing, and retirement planning?

[835] Yes.

[836] I think of my wife isn't intending.

[837] Yes.

[838] You need to clear up a stupid debt, as fast as you can.

[839] And you need to use a bunch of that $75 ,000 to do it today.

[840] Should we mobilize that immediately?

[841] Yes, today.

[842] Okay.

[843] Yeah, I'd take almost all that money in three.

[844] throw it at that student loan today.

[845] And let's get rid of it.

[846] Here's how I know that.

[847] How old are you, Matthew?

[848] We're both 28.

[849] Okay.

[850] When you're 48, you don't want to be sitting around looking at this stupid thing because it's zero percent interest and call yourself sophisticated.

[851] This doesn't age well, this analysis of zero percent that you're doing.

[852] It feels good in the moment, but when you push it out two decades, it really looks stupid.

[853] it so clean it up as fast as you can does that make sense yes sir yeah it doesn't age well and if you'll take some of these things you guys are doing with analysis out there on your mathematics and you'll do two things one is put actual dollars to the the theory that you're screwing around with and then then it's laughable you can't buy a big mac with the spread you're making uh for sure you can't buy a big mac but the uh they're expensive but the um and the second thing is just think, okay, if I'm keeping this around because it's wise, am I going to be proud I did that 20 years from now?

[854] And you look at and go, no, I feel dirty.

[855] Well, yeah, it's because it's dumb.

[856] So get rid of it.

[857] Get rid of as fast as you possibly can.

[858] It's not a pet.

[859] It's not an investment vehicle.

[860] It's a student freaking loan.

[861] Get rid of it.

[862] That's the answer to all your questions out there regarding this stuff.

[863] So Ken, that same thing comes up of, Dave, I'm going to refinance my credit card, which is $8 ,000 from 18 % to zero.

[864] What do you think?

[865] And I'm thinking, okay, what is 18 % of $80 ,000 of $8 ,000?

[866] Everybody help me with this.

[867] A Big Mac!

[868] Well, Dave, the special sauce lettuce cheese, you know, it's a premium these days.

[869] Yeah.

[870] So, you know, when you actually do the actual math of what you did, it was nothing.

[871] That's right.

[872] it was bogus so pay off the $8 ,000 that's correct well you're giving yourself an excuse to kick the can down the road you're screwing around trying to fix something with if you were doing math you wouldn't be in this mess that's a good point it's not a math problem but you feel you're doing something good that's what that's the trap everything's they're making a smart decision and they just allows them to keep extending extending extending here's the thing coming out of that income i mean out of that out of that uh internship when she gets in there and she's full time they're going to be crushing it instead of stressed out over that debt.

[873] That's the other reason to use that 75 now.

[874] I've been young and I've been old, and I've never seen a government program that made me happy.

[875] Amen to that.

[876] Just think about it.

[877] If they say, I'm from the government and I'm here to help, run.

[878] This is the Ramsey Show.

[879] Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[880] Thank you for joining us.

[881] Open phones at AAA -825 -5 -2 -2 -2.

[882] You jump in.

[883] We'll talk about your life and your money.

[884] Alexander is with us in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[885] Hi, Alexander.

[886] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[887] Hello, gentlemen.

[888] How are we doing today?

[889] Better than we deserve, sir.

[890] How can we help?

[891] I love to hear.

[892] Well, I wish I was calling under better circumstances here, but let you with the tax here real quick.

[893] I'm 33 years old.

[894] I make about $105 ,000 a year.

[895] I just recently finished paying off $20 ,000 worth of credit card debt, and I have about $11 ,000 left on a car payment.

[896] I seem to be finding myself, you know, incredibly behind and where I thought I was going to be at this stage of my life.

[897] And I find myself keep wanting to find different ways on how I can, you know, increase my net worth different businesses, different jobs, et cetera.

[898] And I, as I'm saying this, I was listening to the ad deal running.

[899] And Rachel, she posts an ad about, you know, loving her life this new book she put out.

[900] So I was kind of laughing to myself about that.

[901] So my, my question to all is, how do I ensure that I'm maximizing my time, my effort, and my money to reach the point of what I personally deem to be financial success?

[902] One thing I think that keeps robbing me of this is the comparison that I make towards others that are much further ahead and within, you know, my social circle, whether it be friends or family, and it seems to be a vicious cycle of...

[903] Alexander, you're 33.

[904] You've already figured out that no matter where you are, there's somebody got a nicer car, a bigger house.

[905] for the rest of your life.

[906] Bill Gates even has that.

[907] As soon as Bill Gates thinks he's got something, he meets the Shah or the Saudi Prince.

[908] He figures out he's got nothing, right?

[909] I mean, there's always somebody that's got you whooped in any of these things you compare to.

[910] So, and you know that already.

[911] A question for you, Alexander.

[912] Is this making you take some silly, risks are you a little bit more risky and thus you're you're kind of reaping what you're sewing there because you're trying to catch up so quick or are you afraid you're going to or you're afraid yeah that's what i'm trying to understand what's happening yeah i i think that's a good statement i believe this i think i'm going to um i i start to businesses just to tack on um to my uh day jobs so that i can kind of reach um this point of uh financial success and start As you guys say, you know, having the fastest way to get rich quick is don't.

[913] Yeah.

[914] Get rich quick.

[915] Have you lost money on those ventures or they just, they fizzled out and they just didn't yield what you wanted to?

[916] What is it?

[917] Yeah, they just haven't yielded what I wanted to yet.

[918] All right.

[919] What's that number?

[920] Give us a number.

[921] Yes.

[922] So my day job, I make 94 ,600.

[923] No, no, no, no. I'm asking you.

[924] I'm asking you.

[925] You started off the call.

[926] I'm not where I thought I'd be.

[927] What is the number that would have not made this call happen?

[928] 33, I have this much net worth.

[929] Give us a number.

[930] I'm curious.

[931] Yeah, the number I have in mind, it's about $300 ,000.

[932] I think that would support the lifestyle of not just experiences.

[933] $300 ,000 income?

[934] Income or net worth?

[935] I'm asking the net worth question.

[936] Oh, that's a great question.

[937] So you're not even there.

[938] Okay, this helps us.

[939] No, no, this helps Dave and I understand where your head's at.

[940] What you're saying, I thought you were thinking net worth, you're going, I want to make $300 grand a year, and that's based on a lifestyle you've got in your mind.

[941] And I think you're doing this the wrong way.

[942] I would be looking at not I want to make $300 ,000 at $33.

[943] I'd be looking at what do I want my life to look like in 30 years from now?

[944] And I love the idea of hanging around really wealthy people who are 30 years ahead of me and learning what they did and paying attention to what work for them.

[945] And like Dave said, this is a patience play.

[946] This is this is activity, but patience is also an activity.

[947] I get up and I bust it.

[948] I do what I have to do so that later I can do what I want to do.

[949] And so patience at 33 is really hard.

[950] And so you've got to understand that's an active thing, not to sit around and wait.

[951] I hustle, I plant, I tend to the crop, if you will, using the farmer analogy, and I wait for the harvest.

[952] And so in your situation, I would be asking, where do I want to be 30 years from now and then start to back into, okay, what steps do I need to take?

[953] And I think you'll find that that $300 ,000 number is the wrong goal.

[954] Dave, am I saying anything that you think is off?

[955] So comparison is the thief of joy.

[956] And the wealthy people that I've met that have high quality lives and have built wealth.

[957] and I've met a bunch of thousands of them.

[958] They really just don't measure themselves against other people at all.

[959] They're only measure themselves against themselves.

[960] I started playing golf six years ago.

[961] I still suck.

[962] But I'm a lot better than I was six years ago, which is a low bar.

[963] But I'm a lot better than I was six years ago.

[964] But I have figured out with the people I've gotten the pleasure of playing with around around the country, around the world, that I will never reach a point in that game where there is not a bazillion people that are better than me. So I've got to just enjoy my day out in this beautiful green golf course with my friends and occasionally hit a good shot and I enjoy the shot.

[965] But I'm not going to make a living doing that.

[966] I'm not going to be that good at 63.

[967] I don't think.

[968] I don't think it's going to happen, and I'm not nor is it the goal.

[969] So the secrets to happiness there is not comparing myself to PGA players that are half my age or a third my age, for that matter.

[970] I, you know, I don't, it's not, it's not why I'm there.

[971] And so what is it that, what is it that's going to make you happy and fulfilled?

[972] and if you'll find that and go create a great income doing something that you're passionate about on the Ken Coleman spectrum, you're going to be fine.

[973] The good news is you're ambitious, and I want you to keep that.

[974] I do not want your ambition to tip over the edge into desperation.

[975] Yes, that's exactly the word.

[976] And if it tips over into desperation, that's when you're getting ready to sign up for get rich, quick crap, and lose your butt.

[977] that's right and because you're chasing something too fast you become the hair rather than the tortoise and every time I read the book the tortoise wins so you want to be the tortoise and the tortoise really wasn't stopping and taking a poll he wasn't asking his broke friends or his rich friends what he should do he was just kept moving he just kept moving he just kept moving and of course we all know the story the esop's fable he gets to the end of the race and wins while the hair is distracted and all over the place, and then at the end is desperate to try to catch up.

[978] When people say I'm desperate to catch up, I'm too far behind.

[979] That's true.

[980] These are phrases that people say right before they lose a lot of money.

[981] That's right.

[982] Stepping into manure up to their eyeballs.

[983] Because some of the dumbest business deals I've ever done were ones I got in hurry.

[984] I thought it was a one, I thought it was a silver bullet.

[985] I thought if I get this, it's going to be the thing.

[986] It's going to be the breakthrough.

[987] It's going to be the one.

[988] And I just walked straight into a mess.

[989] And I've done it.

[990] I haven't done it lately.

[991] It's been a while since I've done that.

[992] But the dumbest stuff I've done is when I felt like there was scarcity, like I had to rush, like I was desperate, like I was scared, like I was behind.

[993] I had to catch up.

[994] I'm scratching and I'm clawing, and that's when ambition flips over into desperation, and you're getting really screw yourself then.

[995] Well, when you put a number, like $300 ,000 on being enough, you're going to find out when you get to $300 ,000.

[996] That has nothing to do with it.

[997] It's not even close.

[998] One of the things I'd love to give him, Dave, let's give him to get clear assessment with the new book, find the work you're wired to do.

[999] I think Alexander...

[1000] Give him Rachel's book he heard about too.

[1001] That's right.

[1002] Hey.

[1003] Love your life, not theirs.

[1004] You win a book, and you win a book.

[1005] It's going to be great, Alexander.

[1006] Go for it.

[1007] We're going to give you a lot to read.

[1008] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1009] Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[1010] Veronica is in Tucson.

[1011] Hi, Veronica.

[1012] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1013] Hello.

[1014] Thanks for taking my question.

[1015] Sure.

[1016] I appreciate it.

[1017] So this is a question I've had for a few months now.

[1018] It's been bugging me. It's not really that question for me, but rather someone else is someone else is willing.

[1019] I'm 37 and have a dog -based business with a lot of services.

[1020] My husband and I got out of most debt except for a credit card that we used for traveling.

[1021] It only has like $2 ,500 on it.

[1022] I'm wanting to know if seller financing is something that people want to do right now.

[1023] I want to sell my business, but I know that right now a lot of people don't qualify for loans.

[1024] And if seller financing is something I should advertise as an option for selling my business?

[1025] Probably not.

[1026] Okay.

[1027] Because you could end up with the business back, which defeats the point of selling it.

[1028] Like if they don't pay.

[1029] Okay.

[1030] And when they don't pay, by the way, it's because they ran your business into the dirt.

[1031] And so what used to be a thriving, going concern is now a mess with angry customers um and lost customers and lost revenue and now you're supposed to take it back over and rebuild it on and it's just hard to find the energy to do that okay okay now if you're going to do it there's a guy i used to do um you know 40 years ago i did some real estate deals with a guy who used to buy mortgage notes and he had a saying that applies to this situation he said if you're going to carry back more carry back a paper on a house you're selling or a piece of land you're selling same kind of thing right um then he said you want to do it where you're happy happy and i said how does happy happy happy work he said well you get a huge down payment and then you're happy if they don't pay because you're getting that down payment in your pocket in your property back so you're happy if they default okay and you get a huge interest rate so you're happy if they pay so I'm happy if they pay and I'm happy if they don't pay so you kind of got a structure it that way to where they put so much down and maybe you I'll be crazy what would your business sell for I got a quote for, not a quote, but rather someone came and evaluated everything, and it would go for $350 ,000.

[1032] Okay.

[1033] All right.

[1034] So, you know, put $100 ,000 down, and I'll take a quarter of a million dollar lien against your family farm that's worth a million.

[1035] Okay.

[1036] Then I'll finance your business and hope you don't pay because I get a million dollar farm in the foreclosure.

[1037] follow me yeah sounds sounds kind of brutal all right but the problem is yeah but the problem is the problem is if it goes if it goes bad and you're not in a position that feels like that then you're the one that got screwed so you said you're in the doggy business what do you do I have a self -served dog wash grooming boarding and daycare and then And we transport dogs cross country, too.

[1038] So your passion for caring for animals properly and your love of animals, and for that matter, even people that love animals, has caused you to build a customer base that trusts you and the processes that you have put in place.

[1039] If someone comes in and violates that trust, they will destroy the value of this business, and then you get to take it back.

[1040] Okay.

[1041] Okay.

[1042] That's my concern.

[1043] That's what I'm afraid of for you.

[1044] And I don't know how to protect you from that except setting up some kind of brutal secondary scenario.

[1045] Like where they go through the bank, too?

[1046] Yeah, they could go.

[1047] I don't care where they go, but I would take less money and get all of it.

[1048] Oh, I see what you're saying.

[1049] I would rather have $250 ,000 cash than $20 ,000 down and pray these people don't screw this up.

[1050] Okay.

[1051] Well, I guess that makes me have to think about that because I was looking to sell, you know, not tomorrow, but in a few years' time and just trying to pre -plan.

[1052] You're going to have to stay on top of that business as if you still owned it until they pay you.

[1053] Okay.

[1054] That's what's going to happen in this situation, because what you sell is not.

[1055] not dog grooming and transportation what you sell is my trust in you as your customer that you're going to take care of this dog and not leave it not harm it not be mean to it and still get the grooming done and the transportation done okay you know you sell trust and um and i know how wickedly ridiculous all the Ramses are about our dogs, how crazy we are about our dogs, and if someone were to mistreat that dog, or just not simply give it the adequate amount of care if we gave them money to do so, we would get really emotional about that as a Ramsey.

[1056] And I bet your customers are the same way.

[1057] Absolutely.

[1058] They are.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] This is not, this is not, I didn't, fix your car, this is I messed with one of your children.

[1061] That's what I mean by trust.

[1062] And if they go through the bank and my, I don't have to do anything.

[1063] You don't have to do anything.

[1064] They're just, they're going to get their own money, however they get their money and hand it to you.

[1065] That's the best case scenario, because you get your money right away.

[1066] And I would take less and get my money and leave.

[1067] Okay.

[1068] I really would.

[1069] Because all of the things I just described were not fun.

[1070] And you didn't hear anything fun in there.

[1071] No, not at all.

[1072] You can tell I've been there, and you can tell I've dealt with lots of customers through entree leadership that have tried to do this.

[1073] And the weird thing is, is you feel like you've sold it and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

[1074] And yet, their success is the only way they're going to pay you.

[1075] So now you've still got to worry about them operating properly.

[1076] I agree.

[1077] It's a headache you just don't want.

[1078] You want to get out of the pet business, not just.

[1079] jump into a new business called financing.

[1080] That's effectively what this is.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] I'd start talking about it now.

[1083] If you have a two -year runway, I'd start putting the word out now and, you know, let the word know that, hey, I'm looking to exit in the next couple years.

[1084] I wouldn't wait until I'm ready to exit.

[1085] You know, now, the other thing is this, the shorter the terms, the less the risk.

[1086] So let's pretend Veronica's business is making $150 ,000 net, which is not.

[1087] It would be worth more than $350 if it was.

[1088] but if they gave her like $100 ,000 a year for three years or for two years after putting $100 ,000 down, you know, two years is harder to screw it up.

[1089] But if we're financing this over 10 years, you're going to have a problem.

[1090] You don't want to get in that business.

[1091] I wouldn't.

[1092] I wouldn't.

[1093] And it's not because I don't like borrowing money.

[1094] It's just because it's going to end poorly.

[1095] It's not going to take us to where we need to go.

[1096] so now we do talk to in our entre by the way if you want to learn about small business stuff we do a I do a podcast once a week on entre leadership uh the entree leadership podcast which is one of the top leadership of small business podcasts out there and I answer questions just like Veronica's there um only I take a little more time because it's not uh riddled with commercials like this show and so but anyway yeah so yeah if you want to learn about that stuff.

[1097] And we talk a lot about, you know, a family member taking over the business and buying out their dad or buying out their mom very, very quickly out of the profits.

[1098] That's a little different scenario than, you know, than just financing your doggy grooming thing for 10 years.

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] And somebody puts down 20 grand or something.

[1101] That's just, please don't do that.

[1102] Please don't do that.

[1103] All right.

[1104] That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the book.

[1105] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people.

[1106] Build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1107] Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose, is my co -host today.

[1108] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[1109] It's a free call.

[1110] some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

[1111] Chelsea's with us.

[1112] She is in Cincinnati.

[1113] Hi, Chelsea.

[1114] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1115] Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[1116] Sure.

[1117] What's up?

[1118] So I'm married.

[1119] My husband and I are on the same page with working through the baby steps.

[1120] Right when we always tackle step one, there's always some type of an emergency.

[1121] Is there anything I can do as a mostly stay -at -home mom to help build our income so we can actually get further through these baby steps?

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] Let's start with, do you have any work experience outside of the home to this point?

[1124] I do.

[1125] I currently work part -time at my church as the elementary coordinator, making $11 ,000 a year.

[1126] But I am also, I used to be a hairstylist and I'm still licensed.

[1127] Interesting.

[1128] How much time do you have during a day and a given week with your stay -at -home mom duties being involved there?

[1129] How much time do you have to be able to put towards making money?

[1130] Well, my husband is always home by five.

[1131] I mean, I've even thought about working somewhere from like 5 to 11 p .m. or something like that.

[1132] There is time, and I do have help with the kids.

[1133] Good.

[1134] So here's the answer.

[1135] You get to choose.

[1136] I'm not going to tell you what it is, but I would keep it super simple.

[1137] This is not a career move.

[1138] This is short term.

[1139] Let's get some income in the door.

[1140] and so I would be looking at experience and skill first.

[1141] That's why I led with that question.

[1142] So the work you're doing for the church, you could certainly chalk that up as coordinating children's activities or some administrative work there.

[1143] You could call it whatever you want.

[1144] But I would be looking at through my experience and skill if cutting hair in the evening hours is the best rate you can make based on skill and experience, I'd be doing that.

[1145] The fact that you're licensed, that feels like that's right for me because you probably can make the most bang for your buck on that, correct?

[1146] Absolutely.

[1147] I got to tell you.

[1148] My wife does the old cut in color, and that takes hours.

[1149] The other day she told me how long she was in the chair or wherever they're at.

[1150] And so finding...

[1151] Wherever this mysterious thing occurred.

[1152] Exactly.

[1153] It's like a long time.

[1154] I had no idea.

[1155] Anyway, here's my point.

[1156] Having what I would call prime time hours in the evening, from moms who are really busy during the day, you might be able to have a really nice little business going.

[1157] And if you can do it from home and not have to rent a booth or their home, oh my goodness, Dave, that's even better.

[1158] That's like the house calls.

[1159] So I would start that direction there because you are offering now a convenience.

[1160] Yeah, and then people pay big for this.

[1161] I like the prime time hair.

[1162] So here's the point.

[1163] Anything in your experience and skills.

[1164] I pay a lot Dave hates using that floby.

[1165] He'd love for somebody to cut his hair at night.

[1166] What is a floby?

[1167] You don't know what a floby is?

[1168] Tell him what a floby is, Chelsea.

[1169] This is going to be great.

[1170] I don't know what a floby is.

[1171] How many people in the studio audience know what a floby is?

[1172] Raise your hands.

[1173] All the bald guys.

[1174] So floby is, it is essentially a, it's a hair cutting device, Dave, that you attach to a vacuum and you adjust the length.

[1175] It's like a clipper, if you will, but it sucks up the hair and you do it yourself.

[1176] Oh.

[1177] I can't believe you know, it's like in the same line of the Chia Pet that kind of buy it on TV, you know, as seen on TV.

[1178] Am I right?

[1179] You're killing me. I know.

[1180] See, a little bit of joke and no one got it except for the entire audience.

[1181] Dave and Chelsea didn't get it.

[1182] Anyway, Chelsea.

[1183] Does that help?

[1184] Chelsea, for God's sake.

[1185] What's your husband there?

[1186] So he is a construction, the construction and remodeling.

[1187] Okay.

[1188] And so he could do a lot after five and on the weekends also to get your income up.

[1189] Lastly, lastly, the thing that's, the thing that is.

[1190] that I discovered is, well, let me just first, let me guess and say you all have not been doing a hardcore every dollar budget more than two months.

[1191] Yes.

[1192] True?

[1193] True.

[1194] Because the longer you have been budgeting, the fewer, the more things you anticipate that you used to call emergencies.

[1195] I used to call Christmas an emergency, and then I discovered it's always in December.

[1196] so you know and that kind of stuff and you go oh wait a minute tires on cars wear out it's not an emergency it's an anticipated event now it's a budget item kids school activity fees i forgot them in the budget which made them an emergency but next time they're in the budget so they're no longer an emergency so what happened was the better i got at budgeting over the first year of doing a budget once a month, like 12 budgets in, I was like a thousand times better at not declaring everything I forgot to put in there as an emergency because I was no longer forgetting to put it in there.

[1197] Did that make sense?

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] So as you get better at this, the emergencies are going to subside, and it even gets better than that, years from now, when you are debt -free and have your emergency fund in place and are starting to really build serious wealth, it takes a really big emergency to actually actually be qualified as an emergency because you've got so much margin then that makes sense that sounds great yeah so that's where we're headed but that's that that's that's years from now months from now you'll just be a lot better budgeter and have gotten your income up those two things will solve the emergency problem and you'll get the other side of this and get moving so yeah your good news is you're not afraid of work neither's your husband and works where money comes from so go get you some.

[1200] And good news is it's temporary.

[1201] We're going to work like no one else so that we get this mess cleaned up so that we no longer have to work like no one else.

[1202] So we no longer have to do this crap.

[1203] And you can get out and change everything.

[1204] It's a big deal.

[1205] Chelsea, I love this idea of after a long day, whether you're working outside the house or in the home.

[1206] I come to you.

[1207] You get to relax and I make you feel pretty.

[1208] I charge probably 15 percent.

[1209] I'm not even kidding.

[1210] above 15 to 20 % I would just double it Double it I don't know about that But you know what the going rate And when people are cutting hair Double?

[1211] They got to get in their car Drive to some stinking place Put up with a bunch of other stuff Including traffic And otherwise they make themselves a martini And sit down and she shows up at their own home I'm telling you this is double Facebook poll Facebook poll find out Just just do some research Because I'm an expert on hair So leave me alone.

[1212] I was going to say, very bold.

[1213] Mr. Floby.

[1214] Look it up.

[1215] Floby Coleman.

[1216] Look it up.

[1217] I'm telling you, if there was ever a hair cutting device made for the Dave Ramses of the world, it was that.

[1218] Oh, man, what is this like something?

[1219] Oh, they got it on.

[1220] It's like, it's an infomercial thing.

[1221] This is old school.

[1222] That's why I was, I'm a child of the 80s.

[1223] That was pretty popular.

[1224] It's like a Ronco device.

[1225] Yeah, but look, it's attached to the vacuum so there's no mess.

[1226] That's just.

[1227] And think about it, Dave, you could go right around the side there.

[1228] I do cut my own hair with Sam's Clippers.

[1229] They came from Sam's Club.

[1230] It takes about a minute and a half, and I'm done.

[1231] Yeah, but you've got a mess to clean up.

[1232] Get the Floby, it sucks it right up.

[1233] I need a floby, I guess.

[1234] Who know?

[1235] I didn't even, I woke up this morning, and I had no idea of my floby need.

[1236] And now you have identified it.

[1237] I'm letting the cat out of the bag, folks.

[1238] That is the Ken and Stacey Coleman Christmas present for Dan Ranzi.

[1239] We'll have to ask our next guest about this.

[1240] Oh, I think you'd have a great opinion.

[1241] Speaking of Chia pets.

[1242] Chia face?

[1243] This is the Randi.

[1244] Ramsey Show.

[1245] Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[1246] Stop it in the studio, my good friend Willie Robertson from Duck Dynasty.

[1247] We've been hanging out this week a little bit, and he's got a brand new book out called Gospelor, turning darkness into light, one conversation at a time.

[1248] Welcome, my friend.

[1249] What is that, pal?

[1250] So we were discussing flobys and haircuts right before my friend, the chia pet comes on.

[1251] So you actually had a chia thing.

[1252] licensed.

[1253] Home Depot.

[1254] I saw it.

[1255] Yes.

[1256] There was a little Willie.

[1257] When Duck Dynasty was hot, you were a Chia Pet.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] I should have just retired right then.

[1260] I mean, if you get your own Chia Pet, that's pretty much arrived.

[1261] You're topping out.

[1262] How do you get beyond that?

[1263] That's so good.

[1264] You show up at this thing and be on the show with Dave Ramsey.

[1265] And Ken Coleman.

[1266] And Ken Coleman.

[1267] Now he's really arrived.

[1268] Talking about Flobys.

[1269] That's when you know your career has bottom.

[1270] Don't doubt, my friend.

[1271] Did you flow me yourself when you were in the 80s?

[1272] I had no idea.

[1273] He didn't know about it.

[1274] I thought he got the settings wrong.

[1275] Yes.

[1276] The joke that keeps on giving.

[1277] And got sham wild or something on that.

[1278] That's true.

[1279] You just wish you were clean cut and well -groomed.

[1280] I'm hanging on as long as I can, Dave.

[1281] You just wish you were well -groomed.

[1282] I'm hanging on to it.

[1283] You did.

[1284] You cut most of it off and then grew it back.

[1285] I mean, we went on a hunting trip and you showed up hardly recognized you.

[1286] I cut my hair.

[1287] Yeah, I was going through a weird time.

[1288] Did Corey not like it shorter or it was not her call at all?

[1289] She actually did.

[1290] No, she liked it shorter.

[1291] That's what I thought.

[1292] She wanted me to keep it, but then I just started growing it back out.

[1293] She goes, what's happening?

[1294] Are you doing this again?

[1295] Is this kind of the brand?

[1296] People kind of like it.

[1297] It's kind of the duck dynastry brand.

[1298] You're the duck man. So Gospelor.

[1299] Let's change subjects here.

[1300] The most people associate you and your family, your dad, of course, with hunting and duck calls.

[1301] and we know the fabulous hit of the Duck Dynasty, the whole empire that was created there.

[1302] This is an extension of who you really are, and for that matter who your dad really is.

[1303] Correct.

[1304] And the DNA that runs through your whole family, and you and I've had some great talks about God and spreading the word about him.

[1305] And so to start with, let's talk about gospel.

[1306] What in the world is a gospel?

[1307] It's someone who shares the gospel simply.

[1308] I didn't I had never heard of the word I was writing this book on sharing your faith and I had some other titles and my wife came in and she said I found this word it's an old word that used to be used a lot even in America and it's just kind of a dinosaur it's gone and it was people who shed their faith and not necessarily pastoral it's like normal people they were known gospelers and I thought that is wow that's awesome and so in a way I was like let's bring that word back because it's kind of interesting that the word went away and also i think people shared uh the gospel with other people uh perhaps has gone away and so yeah brought up brought back something that was old that was new and this is this is the DNA of the robinson family and i've never been more proud of a book because this is what we're all about and um and so yeah i was just proud to to be able to write it down so now we bring back the subtitle turning darkness into light one conversation at a time and you and I have hung out a goat enough together in situations around the public and around somebody we just met and those kinds of things that it is a conversation at a time isn't it it is um now that one was now that was a you'll understand this day it's a mix of business in our life and so that subtitle I was trying to figure it out I was talking to Andy Andrews and he said you got to have a subtitle and I said I was trying to think of what this was I was working on another marketing campaign for an optics product for Buck Commander, and it's one that lights up a scope, and it said turn dark to light, and I saw the whole marketing pitch, and I went, that's my subtitle, that's it.

[1309] And so I got that from that, and then it was the one conversation turned darkness to light.

[1310] And I feel like that's probably the melting of the Robertsons.

[1311] It's the melting of business with our faith altogether, because it's going to be impossible to separate the gospel from really, thing we do it was uh at the core of the reason that the whole duck dynasty thing happened at the level that it did it was that it um it was uh you know your family's fun anyway and crazy and so they make great tv especially when you include sigh and um and but in the mix of all that we all got to see somebody that we could relate to and someone that we could relate to that was they're people of faith and they believed it and they lived it and and it came through on the tv and that's i think that was one of the big attractions one of the big draws it was definitely i mean the faith part and i don't know that the network or anyone ever saw that or was like you know because it wasn't going to be it's not wasn't a religious show uh phil always wanted it to be phil said we need more preaching on this show i said dad there's another robberson family that has a show like that it's called the 700 club let them do what they do let's just have fun if and we'll with a prayer and it's something that the whole family can watch.

[1312] If they want to know more, if they want to go deeper, then we can have that conversation through books and through podcasts.

[1313] And that's the way I am in life.

[1314] I'm like, look, I'm not going to shove this down your throat.

[1315] If you don't want to hear it, you don't want to hear it.

[1316] But if you do, then we'll have a conversation.

[1317] And I'll certainly try to be prepared to be able to give an answer for the hope that I have.

[1318] I want to ask you about that because this is certainly an interesting time for somebody who has faith and wants to share it.

[1319] And there's also this natural fear of rejections.

[1320] We humans have just if we ask anybody anything or we go up to somebody and start sharing something and there's this natural fear of are they going to be rude am i going to upset them there's a boldness that phil has modeled and i've heard you talk about it what what do you share in the book what would you say to somebody listening going all right i'm inspired will i want to share my faith but i'm not even sure how to build up that courage to share it and let that conversation go wherever it goes yeah i think you've got a, I make the case in the book for I really think Jesus, it may be the whole deal is to share it.

[1321] So when he leaves the earth, he gives us the great commission, right?

[1322] And he says, make disciples, baptize people, teach people.

[1323] He didn't say, try to go to church whenever you can, try to be a good person.

[1324] That's not a mission.

[1325] He gave us a pretty good mission there, three things.

[1326] And a lot of people I know, they're not anywhere near those three things.

[1327] And so I wanted to live my life I'm like, I want to be around those three things.

[1328] I have to open my mouth to do any of those three things.

[1329] That's orders from headquarters.

[1330] That's what Jesus told us to do.

[1331] That's why he was here, not for himself.

[1332] And you've got to understand, in the Bible, in the New Testament, these are people who are going to most likely lose their lives over sharing their faith.

[1333] And so when I think about what we do today in America, it's a whole lot easier and it was then.

[1334] You know, we're talking about getting the courage.

[1335] But I think we've kind of bought into perhaps the lie of the world, which is, hey, why don't you just keep that to yourself?

[1336] And that's a great deal, right?

[1337] If you're wanting the gospel not to get spread, you would just create this illusion that we should all just be silent about that.

[1338] And so, and I make different arguments about, it's as natural as I would talking about my spouse, or my kids.

[1339] And those are questions that I ask all the time.

[1340] People ask them of me. And so again, it's just those are relationships that I have.

[1341] And so I'm going to talk about my relationship with Jesus.

[1342] It should be quite obvious and clear how I'm living by how I'm living my life.

[1343] And that should be the natural next thing to talk about it it should be part of just kind of the rhythm yeah rather than something that's forced or strained or whatever it doesn't have to be weird yeah no it doesn't have to be strange like again if people don't want to if they're like look I don't want to talk them I'm like hey yeah whatever you do I'll be here that's right how many times have you seen in your own life where you'll mention your faith and somebody didn't really want to receive it you let it go you said a moment ago I don't force it down their throat but then they come back at a time they come when they needed it they think about it that's right man you see said something.

[1344] I've had people say, you said something to me a year ago.

[1345] Yeah, exactly.

[1346] And it's never, but that's part of the Holy Spirit, right?

[1347] And we were talking about things that live in us, and that's another great testimony.

[1348] Even what we think we can't do, now something else is living in us that certainly has the power to get that message out.

[1349] And so, yeah, some of these conversations take, I've been talking to people for 20 years about this, you know, and they're not all stranger encounters.

[1350] Like, this can start with your kids, with your spouse, with your aunt's uncles the people you sit by at work and just listen to what they say and oftentimes you'll hear something come up and you're like ah there you go that's what you know i just heard some had a guy come up to him in the airport the other day in Atlanta he goes i know who you are and i said oh nice to see you and he goes you know i'm not living like um probably should be and i just i said why would you say that to me he goes i don't know and i said well have a seat let's and so that that's that was obvious he literally said to me i'm not living how i should and so something was wanting to come out of him And we had a 30 -minute conversation about it.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] The book is Gossipeller.

[1353] Willie Robertson, one who spreads the gospel that is not necessarily a preacher, a pastor, a staff preacher, not church staff.

[1354] There we go.

[1355] Out today, wherever books are sold.

[1356] Yeah, brand new, brand new release.

[1357] Hey, you want to hang with us because this death -free screams got something to do with you?

[1358] Ooh, I want to hear this one.

[1359] All right.

[1360] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1361] Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my co -host today, a brand new co -host for this segment.

[1362] We let him stay over one.

[1363] Willie Robertson is with us because Jonathan Lindsay are on the debt -free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions to do their debt -free scream.

[1364] And so I know the answer, obviously, but I'm going to ask for the rest of everybody else.

[1365] Where are you guys from?

[1366] West Monroe, Louisiana.

[1367] I like that place.

[1368] There we go.

[1369] And the reason we let Willie hang out.

[1370] is, if I understand correctly, Lindsey, Lindsay, you are Corey's personal assistant.

[1371] Yes, sir.

[1372] Corey's, thank you.

[1373] She manages everything.

[1374] Everything.

[1375] It's good to have a Lindsay like that.

[1376] So, cool.

[1377] What do you do, Jonathan?

[1378] I work for a rental company in Westminster, Louisiana.

[1379] Excellent.

[1380] How much debt have you guys paid off?

[1381] Around $64 ,000 in seven months.

[1382] Good for you.

[1383] Way to go.

[1384] And your range of income during that time?

[1385] $135.

[1386] Cool.

[1387] Very cool.

[1388] Excellent.

[1389] proud of y 'all yeah way to go so what got you started on this ramsie stuff a year ago well we actually went on a beach trip that we could not afford and i was stressed out the whole time i was like we should not be here we do not need to be doing this and we were just looked at each other i was like i can't live like this anymore we've got to do something to change it just was not fun i was like we're supposed to be on vacation but we were trying to keep up with everybody we've all done that vacation oh yeah i mean we've all done that what are we doing why didn't you Just put on a credit card and pay it later.

[1390] Oh, wait, crap, I'm sorry.

[1391] Oh, no, we did.

[1392] That was the problem.

[1393] We did.

[1394] Yeah, so how'd you get connected to us?

[1395] Through church, really.

[1396] Nathan and Amanda, shout out to them at our church got us in a financial peace.

[1397] And the pastor really talked about it a couple weeks before that.

[1398] And Lindsay was like preaching on margins and financial margins.

[1399] And Lindsay's like, look, we've got to do something.

[1400] And I could just feel the stress and anxiety she was going through.

[1401] I was like, all right, let's, we'll give it a shot.

[1402] We've got to change something.

[1403] Yeah, we got into Financial Peace University, and after the first class, we were hooked, we were like, we've got to do this.

[1404] I think this is the way to do it.

[1405] But actually, we started off that class really bad because two weeks before that, we had just closed on the house.

[1406] Oh, wow.

[1407] And we were like, oh, shoot.

[1408] Two weeks later, we went to Disney too.

[1409] We were like, it's like eating chocolate cake the night before you go on a diet.

[1410] What is this?

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] Yeah, so we really started off wrong, but we stuck to, once we got back, we just hit paying off the debt as quick as possible and we stuck to it.

[1413] So what kind of debt was the $64 ,000?

[1414] It was we had Saints season tickets, we had credit cards, we had a truck loan and we had to land.

[1415] You were kind of normal.

[1416] Yes, we were very normal.

[1417] Normal sucks.

[1418] It does.

[1419] Did you sell anything?

[1420] We sold plenty of things.

[1421] We sold everything.

[1422] The kids even over there, they thought they were next.

[1423] I love it.

[1424] There are.

[1425] Dave Ransy, may have been a cuss word early on, but maybe.

[1426] Maybe.

[1427] But they understand what the future may hold for both of them so everything's good yeah we put our camper on the chopping block whoa we're just like we're done what about the saints tickets those were gone too oh wow we actually we actually held on to them for the season and sold every single game we did not go to a game but we made money and that helped pay towards our debt there you go i know they cut their food budget because lindsay would look like a vulture at my refrigerator after i would cook a meal she would be just hanging around I'm like, Willie, what did you cook today?

[1428] You got anything like that's not fair because you actually are a great cook.

[1429] He's a very great cook.

[1430] So, I mean, you don't have to be, you don't have to be vulturing to want to eat your food.

[1431] He cooks for 100 and there's 40 people there and just sits in the fridge so somebody's got to eat it.

[1432] Because there's no stopping him once he gets going.

[1433] I'm like, are you headed out of town?

[1434] I'll take the leftovers home for us.

[1435] The entire refrigerator, yeah.

[1436] Well, hey, whatever.

[1437] It's what you got to do.

[1438] So you're scratched and clawed and for a, for, uh, seven months really leaned in chop camper on the chopping block put the tickets up for sale the whole deal and uh resold or however everyone to say it and and now you're free was it worth it oh every bit of it wouldn't change it no it was great i think you're heroes i think you changed your family tree and i think you learn gods and grandma's ways of handling money and you're like grownups and stuff and we need more people like y 'all yes and i will shout out to willie too just as this is his book release but we're hoping to you know share our faith god showed up for us more times than we can count we tithe for the first time like consistently that was the first thing your lesson said was to give and we thought we weren't going to be able to but we put that in our budget first and we've done it ever since the very beginning and that has changed our life like we have had god show up more times than we can count and I just think that that's helping us share our faith and be a gospel or to the world so we're really excited yeah amen amen that's a good tie -in very well done very well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is she's probably going to say the budget but communication because money was a conversation we would never have like i call it swipe anxiety you just swipe that credit card you think about it later than that anxiety just builds and builds and build and build and you don't even want to talk about it and it was it was one thing we never never talked about and ever since the communication it's it's an easy conversation to have has that bled over into other issues that are tough to talk about no yeah we can talk about anything.

[1439] Yeah.

[1440] It's really been helpful.

[1441] Yeah, good for you.

[1442] I'm glad it impacted your marriage.

[1443] And I'll say the budget.

[1444] I love to see it.

[1445] And we got to one point during the week and we hadn't spent any money.

[1446] And I was like, babe, we got to go grocery shop.

[1447] I got to do a budget.

[1448] I got to be able to put that.

[1449] Oh, the little bubbles that come up on the premium edition.

[1450] She likes to put them in places.

[1451] So she gets upset when there's nothing there that she can't move.

[1452] But that's always a good thing when you ain't got the bubbles up there.

[1453] Yeah.

[1454] That's a good thing.

[1455] So the every dollar app is part of the rhythm then.

[1456] Part of the rhythm.

[1457] Every day.

[1458] Very cool.

[1459] Very cool.

[1460] All right.

[1461] Let's bring the kiddos up and introduce them.

[1462] Their names and ages because they're part of the program here and they got mom and dad that are hero.

[1463] You've changed your family tree, guys.

[1464] I'm proud of you.

[1465] This is Finlay, and this is Douglas.

[1466] She'll be 11 this month and he is eight.

[1467] Okay.

[1468] Douglas, no more cussing about Dave Ramsey.

[1469] He's like, what are you talking about?

[1470] I never said that.

[1471] He's like, Dave.

[1472] Well, I see that smile.

[1473] Yeah, Dave Ramsey equal know for a while.

[1474] Did they get involved?

[1475] How did they get involved in this?

[1476] Well, we kind of cut back on some of the things they did, and we actually just taught them like, look, we're doing this for short term later in life.

[1477] It'll be prosperous because we got some great parents of mine that are really good to them and generous to them.

[1478] And I'm saying, look, let them be generous to you right now, take it all, and then we can be generous to you later with your kids.

[1479] So that's what we've been telling them.

[1480] Yeah, live like no one else.

[1481] So later you can live like no one else.

[1482] No doubt.

[1483] Exactly.

[1484] No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.

[1485] And they've done a great job to just go with the flow, and they've got to still do their things, so they're happy.

[1486] They don't look like they're getting by.

[1487] I think they're getting by.

[1488] Everything's okay.

[1489] Good thing Uncle Willie was there to feed them.

[1490] I'm just saying.

[1491] There we go.

[1492] Good stuff, y 'all.

[1493] I'm proud of y 'all.

[1494] I'm glad they deducted that and not that their boss is just paying more money.

[1495] Well, hey, that's a good way.

[1496] Yeah.

[1497] I mean, if you feed them, you don't have to pay them.

[1498] There is.

[1499] Here's your bonus in a turkey leg That's it There we go.

[1500] What is the go -to -willie item?

[1501] What's the best thing you cook?

[1502] Oh, pizza's pretty good.

[1503] Pita, homemade pizzas?

[1504] I have an outdoor pizza.

[1505] He made some, we shot those pheasants.

[1506] He made some pheasant chili that I heard was pretty outrageous.

[1507] What?

[1508] And then pheasant dumplings.

[1509] Remember I got on that pheasant dumplings kick for a while?

[1510] I love cooking crawfish.

[1511] It's crawfish season.

[1512] You missed that on that the other day, by the way.

[1513] Yeah, I missed the crawfish.

[1514] party.

[1515] So, yeah, I do all kinds of things.

[1516] Yeah, yeah.

[1517] You never know.

[1518] It's a multi -talented dude.

[1519] I know.

[1520] Best -selling author.

[1521] Here we go.

[1522] I want the chili and the dumplings.

[1523] Yeah, yeah, you do, I promise.

[1524] My mouth is watering and I'm not going to be able to finish this segment.

[1525] All right.

[1526] Jonathan and Lindsay, Jonathan and Lindsay, Douglas and Finley from West Monroe, Louisiana, $64 ,000 paid off in seven months, making $1 .35.

[1527] These people are heroes.

[1528] They change their lives.

[1529] Count it down.

[1530] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1531] Three, two, one.

[1532] We're debt -free.

[1533] Yeah.

[1534] Love it.

[1535] Way to go.

[1536] That is fun.

[1537] I think Ms. Corey's got a good one there.

[1538] Yeah, she's awesome.

[1539] Jonathan's great.

[1540] The whole family, so I see them probably every day.

[1541] They're over.

[1542] and those kids from when they were little so they're over all the time yeah great great work and they're hard workers so this is not about them being not wanting to work because they work no no they obviously leaned in to this no question about it was a good yell Dave hey it was like that one time you made a birdie you yelled like that one time that one time once well it's just grumblings and anger wow I hit the turf one day he said 8 -1 -1 call for you dig Oh, we've all been there.

[1543] I'm just saying, thanks for dropping by, Willie.

[1544] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1545] Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 9 -8, and God is able to bless you abundantly so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

[1546] Benjamin Franklin said, it takes many good deeds to build a good reputation and only one bad one to lose it.

[1547] And we have seen that, have we not?

[1548] It's one of the pastors that was here the other day said, you don't want the DNF in your column.

[1549] Did not finish.

[1550] Yeah, that can happen.

[1551] Andrew is in Boise.

[1552] Hi, Andrew.

[1553] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1554] Hi, thank you for taking my call.

[1555] Sure.

[1556] How can I help?

[1557] So my wife's student loans are going to enter repayment in February.

[1558] They total a little over $51 ,000.

[1559] Based off my current budget for what our income will be then, we should be able to pay them off in about 18 to 20 months.

[1560] Good.

[1561] My question is, I have the ability to take a zero -interest wage advance for my work where I could take $6 ,000 that I could pay back in 12 months.

[1562] And should I take that wage advance to put as a lump sum against those student loans?

[1563] No. Keeping the time frame the same or shorter, hopefully trying to.

[1564] to pay them off quicker and save some interest.

[1565] No. And because the interest is not that high on the student loan during the period of time and the number of dollars is not worth screwing with.

[1566] The second reason is that if you, God forbid, die, your student loans are forgiven.

[1567] Your wage advance is not.

[1568] If your, God forbid, become disabled, your student loans are forgiven.

[1569] Wage advance is not.

[1570] So I'm not going to.

[1571] to trade this um the the the only good features of a student loan debt uh for and lose them for this wage advance so you're thinking right i like the way you're thinking uh but you had you know those are two items and i'm not predicting if someone's death or disability please believe me i'm not the last got to do that but the uh but the idea being uh uh if you actually figure out what's what's your interest rate on the student loan Yeah, the weighted average is about four and a half, but I would be putting it on on loans that are about six individual ones.

[1572] Okay, so it's $200 in one year that you would save.

[1573] You have a $51 ,000 problem.

[1574] You don't have a...

[1575] A little closer to $4 based off of what I was circulating.

[1576] Four percent of $6 ,000 is $240 on one year.

[1577] That's what you would save.

[1578] And so, and you're, you know, it's just not, it's...

[1579] I wouldn't screw with.

[1580] it for that because you don't have a $240 problem.

[1581] You have a $51 ,000 problem.

[1582] And you've already addressed that because you're leaning in.

[1583] You're aggressive.

[1584] You're focused.

[1585] And, uh, you know, so, but, but the good news is you're actually paying attention to any possibility that'll help me move the needle on this.

[1586] And this is a possibility.

[1587] And I'm glad you ask about it.

[1588] I'm glad your mind is in a place where you would ask about it because you're paying attention.

[1589] You're not trying to drag this out.

[1590] You want to get it done as fast as you can.

[1591] All of those are what's going to be the magic sauce Andrew not the zero percent on six thousand and I wouldn't trade that for the other for the extra risk you're taking on nor what I go through all the crap and hassle you got to go through to do this and changes the relationship with your employer and and all this stuff I just wouldn't know that I wouldn't fool with it let's just lean in and get her done man you're you're sharp get her done get her done good question magdalene magdalene is with us in uh Detroit magdalene I'm sorry I can't say it right I'll get it out eventually How are you, Magdalene?

[1592] Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[1593] How are you?

[1594] Better than I deserve.

[1595] What's up?

[1596] So my question is, I've heard you talk a couple of times about how you guys were budgeting that you would never let your bank account balance, like, go below $1 ,000.

[1597] And I was wondering, was that like your $1 ,000 emergency fund, or is that like you just tried to never let your bank balance go below that number?

[1598] That would have been.

[1599] in a different world when if you kept $1 ,000 in your checking account, they didn't charge you any fees.

[1600] Today, that's not necessarily true.

[1601] And I would not worry with keeping that much.

[1602] You want to keep something in there just so you don't accidentally slip into an overdraft or something, so $100 maybe, but I don't know why you would need to keep $1 ,000.

[1603] I would keep your $1 ,000 baby step one emergency separate from your checking account.

[1604] Okay.

[1605] And then maybe keep $100 in the checking.

[1606] account today.

[1607] That's how that's what we're doing today with people using every dollar is recommending and they're going that way.

[1608] And so Ken, you and Stacy have been doing this a long time.

[1609] What did you do back in the day?

[1610] Well, back then, same deal.

[1611] I think we were, Stacey was monitoring what we would, the minimum we'd have to have in our checking to get free to get free.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] And so that became a credit union.

[1614] It's free anyway.

[1615] That's right.

[1616] So our zero based budget was based on that number.

[1617] So zero down.

[1618] So we budgeted every dollar to that number?

[1619] When we say a zero -based budget, we mean give every dollar of your check that's coming in, folks, a name.

[1620] We don't mean give every dollar that's in your account a name.

[1621] You don't take your checking account to zero every month.

[1622] That's what Magdalene is.

[1623] She's correct about that.

[1624] And I used to just use back in the day, I mean, this is 30 years ago.

[1625] We kept a thousand bucks in there because in those days, bank fees were crazy.

[1626] But you got nobody writes checks anymore.

[1627] So we had free checks, you know, back then if you did that, and you got, you know, a free toaster and a knob getting.

[1628] But it was like, oh, Lee.

[1629] I was going to say it really quick.

[1630] I remember when I first started working, I was afraid to let my checking account get below 1 ,000.

[1631] This was before any kind of, I wasn't, it was just me as a kid.

[1632] Yeah.

[1633] But it made me feel better to have that.

[1634] Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[1635] Dave and Lynn are in Los Angeles.

[1636] Hey, guys.

[1637] How are you?

[1638] Hi, doing well.

[1639] Cool.

[1640] How can we help?

[1641] so I am actually questioning whether or not we should delay baby step number two and focus on baby step number three for a potential job layoff no but you could pause baby step two and just not be in the total money makeover and pile up cash if you're pretty sure you're going to get laid off if you're just generally a worry ward no so what's the probability you're going to lose your job The company has had three rounds of layoffs this year, this last calendar year.

[1642] Yeah, but how many employees do they have and how many did they lay off?

[1643] They laid off about 10%.

[1644] Okay, in three rounds.

[1645] Yes.

[1646] So three percent per round?

[1647] Correct.

[1648] What would make you think you're on the chopping block?

[1649] I've worked there less than two years.

[1650] That's one of the criteria that they're using to lay people off that hadn't been there?

[1651] that's typically the case yeah it usually does play a role yeah it usually does play a play a role depending on the thing now are you hearing any news or is this just water cooler gossip um so there i mean i follow some threads and things like that um but i do know for a fact those three rounds occurred and um and i happen to survive all three so what is the industry that you're in um in IT cybersecurity.

[1652] Okay.

[1653] So why is it, why do you think this company is going to continue going down?

[1654] I think the development of new technologies and AI has kind of actually put, they invested more in future technologies and less than employees and they're trying to do more with less, I think.

[1655] Is this a large company?

[1656] The economy.

[1657] It is.

[1658] Public company.

[1659] A public company, Yeah.

[1660] So there's a trend right now when you look at stock price for these companies.

[1661] When they invest heavily in either talent, they'll over hire.

[1662] And we saw major companies, Dave, lay people off, big technology companies because they overhire when they think that economy's going to go crazy.

[1663] So is she on the line then?

[1664] She could be.

[1665] I think it's here's the point.

[1666] Should she stop everything in pile up cash?

[1667] I would.

[1668] Okay.

[1669] Just for about night.

[1670] You know, is she still like, how long would make you feel comfortable if you were to pile up cash?

[1671] How many months worth of expenses would make you feel?

[1672] feel good about it.

[1673] I mean, I definitely think a solid four or five months would be.

[1674] No, that's not the answer.

[1675] You don't keep doing this.

[1676] You only keep doing this until you're not worried anymore about being laid off.

[1677] That you don't think there's a high probability.

[1678] There's always a probability, but you don't think there's a high probability.

[1679] There's a storm.

[1680] You go inside and you batten up until the storm passes.

[1681] Then you come back outside.

[1682] So when the storm passes, you push play again, take it back down to $1 ,000.

[1683] And until you're ready to do that, you know, you're not ready to play.

[1684] So if you can't get some stability within a few months out of your company, you probably need to move on.

[1685] That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

[1686] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1687] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1688] Christ Jesus.

[1689] If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization, because whatever you lead, can only grow as much as you do.

[1690] I know from experience.

[1691] I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership podcast.

[1692] I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization.

[1693] One episode could change your business.

[1694] Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.