Beastie Boys

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Monsu.

[3] Hello.

[4] Hello.

[5] How you doing?

[6] Great.

[7] How are you doing?

[8] Good.

[9] We've got an exciting group of musicians on today.

[10] Boys.

[11] Boys, boys, boys, boys.

[12] The Beastie Boys are here.

[13] The Beastie Boys are an American hip -hop group from New York City, formed in 1978.

[14] They are three -time Grammy Award winners and ten -time nominees.

[15] We talked today with Michael Diamond, A .K. Mike D and Adam Horvitz, aka Ad Rock.

[16] If you love the Beastie Boys like I do, I recommend you check out Beastie Boys Story, a Spike Jones live documentary available now on Apple TV Plus.

[17] So please enjoy the Beastie Boys.

[18] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[19] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[20] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

[21] but how do I mean I, you know, I want to maintain good posture in this episode because I, you know, I can tell already, Dax is going to be kind of disappointed if I don't sort of represent well on that front.

[22] Hold on a second.

[23] I just want to be clear, you think I am a stickler on posture?

[24] Yeah, you're obviously looking to me as a role model for postural alignment and I don't want to disappoint.

[25] Now, Adam, I'll say, and I'm just opening myself up for daggers right now from one of my oldest friends and partners, Adam Horvitz, here, but I think my postural alignment has really improved over the years.

[26] Oh my God, Mike, you are actually taller for really.

[27] See?

[28] See?

[29] Mike has fantastic posture.

[30] But how bad was it when we were a teenager?

[31] Like, I literally couldn't even like look up at someone.

[32] It was like mine.

[33] It was like mine is now.

[34] Mike, but you wanted it.

[35] And you went for it and you did it, Mike.

[36] You made it happen.

[37] How tall are you, Mike?

[38] I think I've remained 510 all along, but I read maybe 5, 10 and a half now.

[39] No, in the dock, you read to me as 6 -1.

[40] Yeah, I would agree.

[41] A skinny 6 -1.

[42] I'm going to say you're blowing air up my buttock.

[43] No, no, no, no, no. I would have been a considerable deal of money.

[44] Well, you mean 6 -1.

[45] All right.

[46] Can we talk about an Adam, I think we've talked about this.

[47] But I have a theory about front people of bands that you should never be over six feet.

[48] Rarely.

[49] The only exception I have to that rule is Joey Ramon.

[50] But Joey Ramon always had the mic stand as a prop.

[51] Like he felt so awkward being so tall that he was like bent over and he had the mic stand.

[52] So it kind of mitigated his height.

[53] I think you're ignoring one of the greatest frontmen of all time in Led Zeppelin.

[54] Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up.

[55] Robert Plant.

[56] He's a mother plant.

[57] Robert Plant.

[58] I've seen him in public.

[59] Adam and I met him.

[60] We met him in a lobby.

[61] I went camping with him.

[62] I am him.

[63] That's a lie.

[64] He's a good six one and change.

[65] Not true.

[66] Maybe it's later in life, but we met him.

[67] And the man is not far off from Lilliputian.

[68] Who's Lillie?

[69] I'm out.

[70] The tiny characters in what story?

[71] yeah uh lily put you know the people who come from lily put uh yeah that's the story is it um like huck fin maybe you are lily pucian refers to a person of smaller height i'm gonna add very nice guy when we met him in the in the hotel i couldn't have been nicer honestly like it does say he's 6 -1 on the internet yeah sorry i internet all right internet i've seen next to him at a stoplight in manhattan i'm six two and change and we were virtually looking eye to eye just for whatever that's Unless he could have had huge boots on, I don't know.

[72] I'll tell you, well, maybe, listen, maybe it's in a, I don't know, no disrespect, maybe it's an aging thing because we met him 10 years ago when we were on tour when we met him Adam.

[73] I'm just wondering on Wikipedia, do they take account for boots and shit on Wikipedia?

[74] Great question.

[75] It's a great question.

[76] I doubt we'll figure that out here today.

[77] Right.

[78] Exactly.

[79] So here's my question.

[80] So there was a camera operator on Parenthood and his name was Arturo, Skipio, Afriano.

[81] Oh my goodness.

[82] Do you guys know Arthur Afriano?

[83] No, never heard of him.

[84] He's a liar.

[85] I've been friends with Arthur since kindergarten.

[86] Okay, good, good, good, good, good.

[87] Okay, so I think this could be a bridge by which we can trust one another.

[88] And was he in a band with one of you guys when you were little?

[89] Yes, we were in a band, the young and the useless.

[90] The young and the useless.

[91] Okay, good.

[92] This is now, and now I have a second question to build a further bridge.

[93] Was, One of you married to Wag's sister?

[94] All right, that's a little bit confused.

[95] Wag is a good friend.

[96] I'm sorry, Wag's wife's sister.

[97] Wag is a good friend of both of ours, and he's married to Kim.

[98] And Kim Davis, her sister, director Tamara Davis, is my ex -wife.

[99] There we go.

[100] I have been asked to advise her on what Polaris Razor to buy, and so I've actually emailed with your ex -wife, having never met her, but solely to guide her on offer.

[101] road purchase.

[102] No, no. Well, okay.

[103] Well, then I should give you props because I don't know what your background is with the Polaris's, but my teenagers go out to, she has a house out in the desert where said Polaris is.

[104] I mean, my teenagers have taken that thing into the national park for untold miles and had had the best time.

[105] Yeah, I mean, I went through maybe five options she really had, and I narrowed it down to one.

[106] I was really, really involved.

[107] And I don't generally We're talking about an off -road vehicle.

[108] Yeah, it's a four -wheel off -road vehicle, but unlike an ATV, I mean, maybe I'm deluding myself, but unlike an ATV, I think it's really safe because it's, you're in a roll cage.

[109] So as long as you don't have your hands or arms out, like if you keep all your limbs within the cage, you're going to be safe in that.

[110] Can you guys see that, you probably can't see, you see all those holes on my top of my hand?

[111] I rolled one recently and got a bunch of pins in my hand and then got.

[112] got him removed a week ago.

[113] Because he put his hand out.

[114] Because I put my hand out, which is the number one thing I tell people not to do the second they get in it.

[115] Okay, do you guys feel closer at all to me at all?

[116] Who are you people?

[117] So, okay, so really quick, Mike, you're in Malibu, and Adam, where are you?

[118] You know, I'm around.

[119] Now, Adam, I'm going to say by the fact that there's no detail behind you, my theory is you're actually in a closet, that Kathleen has locked you in a closet.

[120] I know I'm in a real room.

[121] Oh yeah, I see a popcorn ceiling.

[122] There's nothing on a wall for some reason.

[123] Yeah, why does it have a cottage cheese ceiling, Adam?

[124] Okay, I'm judging from the flora outside.

[125] You are on the West Coast?

[126] I'm in Pasadena.

[127] Fantastic.

[128] And Adam, are you generally this cold in interviews, or is it just me?

[129] Is there something about me that's triggering you, or this is just generally how you are?

[130] It's Mike.

[131] It's Mike.

[132] Okay, he's bringing out this side of you.

[133] All right, Just out of kindness and reciprocity, where are you?

[134] I'm in Los Velas in an attic above a garage of a house we've been building for three years and will likely build for the rest of our lives.

[135] And so what's your quarantine situation?

[136] Because I noticed that you are not six feet.

[137] You're not wearing masks.

[138] What's going on?

[139] Have you been quarantined?

[140] Yeah, we've been doing the whole thing together.

[141] Two months, two plus months at this point.

[142] Prior to the epidemic, Monica lived at our house because she was having different medical issues.

[143] and so we were housing her and then it started and we were already all living together so actually I was shooting in Austin I had to come home then I had to self -quarantine for a week at her apartment which was deserted and then I got invited back into the family home and now we all just took the antibody test and none of us have it unfortunately I was really, I had fingers crossed I had had it.

[144] Have you guys done an antibody test?

[145] I have not yet but the thing is I haven't had the flu in the you know so there yes there's a chance that I was flying back and forth to New York constantly the whole end of 2019 into the beginning of 2020.

[146] Yeah.

[147] So sure, is there a chance I was exposed to it?

[148] Absolutely.

[149] But I would have had to then remain completely asymptomatic.

[150] Also, I guess is possible.

[151] Which happens.

[152] So I watched y 'all's documentary last night, which is fantastic.

[153] Your voice, when you said y 'all's dog, you and I watched, You did the high -pitched thing, which to me denotes maybe a stretching of the truth.

[154] And you look down, which is...

[155] Well, you know why I looked down?

[156] I looked down to see if I wrote the name of it anywhere, which I stupidly did.

[157] It's just called Beastie Boys, right?

[158] That's all I typed into Apple and it came up.

[159] Misty Boy's story, yeah.

[160] Story, as if that's going to change anything.

[161] But again, if you get Beastie out, it'll sell fill in boys and stories.

[162] So really all I need to tell people is to type in Beastie into the...

[163] their Apple TV, which is what I did.

[164] And I was so delighted watching it for so many reasons because my experience with you guys is, I'm from Detroit, I was very into the hardcore scene when Fight for Your Right to Party came out.

[165] I was like, oh, I don't like that.

[166] It's like booze, frat culture, blah, blah, blah.

[167] It was just popular and I wanted to do anything that wasn't popular.

[168] So I didn't ever give it a chance.

[169] And then as things progressed, I fell in love with you guys and of course probably like so many people through the sabotage video and Spike Jones and all that I just was like oh these guys are everything I want to be and then some and then I was really kind of delighted to watch the story of you and it was so informative like I know who Rick Rubin is I've been to that Shangri -La studio and the guy I met he's super spiritual so I'd never seen him when you guys met him so to see that footage of you guys meeting him at NYU and his persona back then.

[170] And just all the people that have moved through your journey, the Beastie Boys journey, is so impressive.

[171] So many incredibly talented people that you guys kind of just stumbled upon and were open to work with.

[172] And the story is as much about the world in which you guys inhabited and fostered as it is about you guys, which I think is phenomenal.

[173] Thank you for your takeaway.

[174] Because, no, that was one of our ambitions in both our book and then the stage show and then the resulting film.

[175] Directed by Spike Jones was to show that everything we've done is all about context, the inspiration, the seed, just even the idea that we thought that we could do what we could do and very minimal fear going up on stage as kids reading our rap lyrics from a piece of paper, which does not look very good on film when we have to look back at it on stage now.

[176] That was all a result of the fact that we grew up.

[177] up in the New York City that we grew up in.

[178] It was the 1970s when we were like little kids.

[179] And it's just this thing of all our parents had decided to stay in New York City.

[180] And if you were a parent and you decided to raise your family in New York City at that time, for the most part, I think like the understood condition, one of the conditions was you were going to give your kids the freedom to just go out and do whatever.

[181] Oh yeah, there's this movement like, you know, free -range parenting.

[182] And it's basically just what y 'all were doing or like, you know, Anthony Kedis and Flea were doing in L .A., like there's these perfect cauldrons for this.

[183] Yeah, I mean, I don't think our parents had a name, but had a term for it.

[184] Just now we look at it as negligence.

[185] Then it was normal.

[186] Then it was just, that's normal.

[187] That's how you did it.

[188] Yeah, there's a total bravery.

[189] Like, when I'm watching you guys, because some of you met at a show, like a bad brain show or something.

[190] And I remember, like, my brother, my older brother took me to see exploited when I was 11.

[191] And it was downright dangerous.

[192] Like, I was 11.

[193] I was fucking terrified.

[194] My brother was like, be careful.

[195] Some guys put screws in the bottom of their combat boots so they break your ankle and your moshy, all this crazy lore.

[196] And I was so attracted to this danger of it.

[197] And I just remember feeling very vulnerable at 11.

[198] And so I was watching you little kids in that scene.

[199] And I was like, oh, yeah, I remember that, like being drawn to that.

[200] Yeah, I was basically what that kid, like when I met Adam Yowke, MCA at a bad brain show, So, you know, I was sort of, you know, your counterpart, right?

[201] Yeah.

[202] I was like this kid, and I was way too shy to even talk to anybody.

[203] So I was there with this with John Barry, who I went to school with, who was the original guitar player, Beastie Boys.

[204] And John was a lot more socially capable than I was, probably than I am now.

[205] He became your social liaison?

[206] Yeah.

[207] Well, there was only one other kid, interestingly.

[208] Like, you know, it's also, there was like maybe all of two dozen people there.

[209] right at this show.

[210] It wasn't like hardcore.

[211] It was such a big deal to us.

[212] We thought it was going to be a really big deal show.

[213] But it turned out on like a Tuesday night in some small bar in Manhattan, there's only like 20 people there.

[214] And out of that 20, there was only one other kid that was our age.

[215] And that was, yeah, MCA.

[216] You know, we were all probably, I don't know, 15 years old or something.

[217] Yeah.

[218] And there were all these things that I felt personally I could really relate to.

[219] And one of them was like the first incarnation of you guys on Licensed to Ill, it seems a little bit, and correct me if I'm wrong, that in order to overcome the barrier of humiliation, right, to be brave enough to get on a stage and to do something, it's almost like it required a character to protect everyone.

[220] And I wondered if there was like consciously or unconsciously or in retrospect, do you recognize that you guys were maybe like adopt?

[221] being characters so that if that person burned alive on stage, it wouldn't really be you.

[222] It'd be that character you created.

[223] You know, I don't think you think that type stuff when you're a teenager, but, you know, speaking for me, like we did become characters, right?

[224] These like fantasy kind of things of what we wanted to be in a way.

[225] And, you know, when you get attention for something, you know, you just keep doing it.

[226] Yeah.

[227] Because people are like, oh, that's, I like that.

[228] And you're like, I like being liked.

[229] Yeah, yeah.

[230] Of course.

[231] I was even thinking, like, when you guys got invited very early on to open for Madonna, and you guys decided like, okay, so our thing is going to be, we're obnoxious rock stars, right?

[232] So in all the interviews, we're going to be obnoxious and all.

[233] And I just wonder if that was almost a self -defense mechanism about like, wait, who the fuck are we to be opening for Madonna?

[234] We need some character.

[235] Was there any fear or no?

[236] Because the three of you were together, did you just feel like invulnerable?

[237] In the Madonna context, there are two things that are happening.

[238] And I remember we would talk with Rick about this.

[239] The thing was like, all right, we're going to go on stage.

[240] And these girls, look, they're all there to see Madonna.

[241] Nobody's there to see us.

[242] Right.

[243] So they're probably not going to like us, but hopefully they're not going to forget us.

[244] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[245] We're going to make a name for ourselves.

[246] How can you get something out of this?

[247] Yeah.

[248] And then I do think there's this other thing that actually, oddly, I think back on it because it served us well through our whole arc of being a band from that.

[249] beginning, like opening up from Madonna to whatever, towards even the very end when Yaak was ill. I don't know how else to put it, but it's like a group mentality.

[250] There's something about being in a group.

[251] We are always just looking to make the other two guys laugh.

[252] I'm so grateful that we had that because that buffered us from if any one of us were in it alone, it'd be like, what is the rest of the world thinking me?

[253] We didn't really have to give a shit about that because what we cared about so much more were the two friends that we know where we are in it with okay Rick Rubin this was news to me I guess I thought I because I've always associated him with you guys I thought he was along for the entire ride it was news to me that he was not after licensed to ill what can you say about obviously then you have no sense that he'll become Rick Rubin but were you noticing some kind of genius where you're like oh this guy is he has some something kind of special like It's really weird that you guys bumped into one of what became the biggest producers.

[254] And then also Spike Jones, you bump into, and he ends up directing her.

[255] Like, there's a lot of you guys bumping into people who proved to be kind of the best in that field.

[256] And I'm always curious if you had a sense of it in the moment or it was later revealed.

[257] So we're tastemakers?

[258] Is that?

[259] Well, you could have been like scouts for baseball.

[260] Like you guys know how to fucking find talent.

[261] That's for sure.

[262] Yeah.

[263] We're like money ball before money ball.

[264] We met Rick Rubin just because we were playing a show and we needed a bubble machine.

[265] And so our friend Nick Cooper said, oh, I know this DJ guy has a bubble machine.

[266] And then we're like, oh, we could have a DJ.

[267] That'd be cool.

[268] And then so that's how we met him.

[269] And then as far as going on for a long career and producing, something about Rick when we were that age was interesting.

[270] We all of us kids wanted to be in bands.

[271] But like, I didn't know any kids that were like, oh, I want to produce.

[272] Yeah, yeah.

[273] Yeah, it's a very weird pursuit at that age, right?

[274] And so Rick, there's definitely something about Rick that I can't, like, special's not the word, special is kind of a word.

[275] But at that time, he had a real persona to himself, and it was kind of electrifying.

[276] Yeah.

[277] He was older than you guys too, right?

[278] Two years?

[279] He was all of like two years older than us.

[280] But when you're that age, like, you're in high school and he's in college and we're going to his dorm room, that was a really big deal to us, right?

[281] That's enough that we couldn't believe.

[282] believe that, you know, here we're in Greenwich Village anyway, like walking through, but the fact that we're going into a college dorm felt like a big deal, because we're in high school.

[283] For sure.

[284] And to just add to what Adam was saying, like, I think it's interesting, Rick had a certain confidence in himself and a conviction.

[285] Like, even more than the confidence, it was like this conviction in his ideas that was actually kind of infectious when I think back of it.

[286] And impressive.

[287] That's something we hadn't seen.

[288] Well, you were in the phase of trying to find your voice, right?

[289] And here's a guy that seems to know what his voice...

[290] To go back to that Madonna thing, when we were going on going to go on tour with Madonna, you know, we just assumed everybody would hate us.

[291] And when you're a punk rocker, like, that's fine.

[292] Well, we actually assumed correctly, Adam.

[293] Right, but I'm saying, so when you're a punk rock, that's fine.

[294] Of course they're going to hate us.

[295] That's cool that they hate us.

[296] But something about Rick Rubin, like, he introduced things that were similar to what we were into, but, like, different.

[297] Like, he was really into wrestling.

[298] Right, right.

[299] And so we were trying to think of, like, what could we do that would, you know, stand out?

[300] And he's like, oh, you should do this, like, wrestling stick.

[301] And we're like, okay.

[302] Yeah, and he was very much playing the manager, too.

[303] Rick was obsessed with, and I mean, he'll talk about it himself now, but he was obsessed with wrestling.

[304] I mean, Rick, at that time was this weird combination of heavy metal wrestling, rap music punk rock and even then he had like I remember he had like this like yoga poster on his on his wall of his dorm room like of all these different yoga postures and it was really it was like what is that you know like I just remember as a kid as a teenager like I had never seen anything like that I don't even know what I thought of it honestly because it was just so so sort of foreign I thought it was the sex positions poster yeah that's what that's what I thought as well what I first saw it.

[305] And then the other weird thing, the person that starts managing is Russell Simmons, who at that time, he just managed Run DMC because his brother was in Run DMC.

[306] Yeah.

[307] Russell had been a hip -hop promoter and his brother, Joe, Run from Run DMC, was like, you know, an aspiring really good MC from Queens.

[308] And then Russell managed Curtis Blow.

[309] Then Run DMC kind of became a thing.

[310] Then Rick met Russell first.

[311] But, when Rick met Russell, like Russell was the biggest name in the rap music business.

[312] Although rap music business then is not rap music business 2020.

[313] It's, you know, this really niche thing that's just at that point, it just like started happening in downtown New York.

[314] Maybe it was in Philadelphia, maybe got down to Virginia a little bit.

[315] And that's like, I don't even think rap music had gotten too.

[316] Detroit yet.

[317] Like it's like literally the it's the geographic reach of rap music was was really really still very limited at that time.

[318] But he he managed a bunch of rap groups from New York.

[319] Run DMC.

[320] Houdini.

[321] All the biggest Curtis Blow, all the biggest rap groups.

[322] So we are thrilled.

[323] Spider D. Come on, Mike.

[324] Yeah.

[325] Sparky D. Sparky D. Sparky D. Jimmy Spicer.

[326] Yeah.

[327] Not EPMD.

[328] Sputty.

[329] EPMD.

[330] No. Did he?

[331] No, he did match EPMD.

[332] We're on him and Leor managed EPMD.

[333] That was later, though.

[334] D was a big letter.

[335] Yeah, yeah.

[336] I'm part of the D family.

[337] Yeah, you are.

[338] I'm a proud member.

[339] So when you look, is it disillusioning at all?

[340] Yeah, Russell Simmons goes on to be a billionaire.

[341] And, you know, Rick goes on to do what Rick does.

[342] And it's all on your first album.

[343] Do you ever go like, that's nuts that all these people we just were hustling with became the institution.

[344] No, I mean, I think our, what we felt was actually very different than that, right?

[345] Because what we felt was we meet Rick, we're spending all of this time in his NYU dorm room and making beats on, you know, what were his drum machines and learning to you, his equipment and then going to this like crappy studio in Chinatown to start making our record with him, which became licensed to ill. And so it was really this feeling of, We are in it all together.

[346] And this is our click and now we belong.

[347] And Rick and Russell are, like Adam uses this term a lot.

[348] Like they were our weird older brothers.

[349] You know, so we really had this like family thing or that feeling.

[350] And then, you know, and then of course, look, first off, we're 18, 19 years old.

[351] So then all of a sudden money comes into the thing and success.

[352] And obviously then it turns out what we want is very different than what Russell wants.

[353] because Russell just wants money.

[354] Yeah, he wants to have you guys on the road probably.

[355] You know, he just wants us to be like a, you know, a circus act, you know, and just keep performing and keep making people happy.

[356] And if it's fight for a party to party is what makes people happy, well, then just keep doing that.

[357] Like, I don't want to hear about it and make fight for a party, and I don't want to talk to you until you've done that again.

[358] If you guys ever thought about what your experience would be like, had you been dealing with that as an individual?

[359] Because, like, recently I interviewed Alicia Keys and, And Cheryl Crow and like three or four huge female artists.

[360] And they talk about like how insanely isolating it is.

[361] Like you're just on the road.

[362] You're never anywhere that's yours.

[363] And increasingly people around you have different roles.

[364] It sounds like maybe you guys would have been safeguarded from that in some way because you had each other.

[365] But even with with each other, did it feel like you were losing touch with real life?

[366] For us, yeah.

[367] Well, yeah.

[368] Because you fatigue.

[369] That's in the documentary.

[370] You guys eventually did fatigue, right?

[371] Yeah, it became completely surreal because it's like this thing that we're, especially in our case, because it was like with Fifeord to party and then sort of having to play these roles that we talked about earlier, it's all sudden we're expected to be that all the time.

[372] Well, you guys that were kind of making fun of, as you say, like frat fraternity culture.

[373] And yet the show was made up of like bros. there was a little dissonance there, right?

[374] Like, oh, wow, the bros loved it.

[375] Right, the bros. But it was, it does this weird feeling that like kind of built up inside of us, right?

[376] Of like, holy shit.

[377] This is not the people that we saw in these downtown New York City clubs on stage that inspired us.

[378] Yeah.

[379] We so desperately wanted to become like, we're on stage, we're like, whoa, we're not that anymore.

[380] We're not like these people courageously making whatever they want to make.

[381] we're like now these, you know, actors doing this thing that we only feel a part of, not wholeheartedly that thing.

[382] And yeah, it was weird.

[383] It was a very surreal feeling.

[384] I think it's like that feeling is really what fatigued us and made us feel like, all right, we need to take a break here.

[385] And then, you know, it's funny looking back at it, it just seems totally human for us to want to take a break at that point.

[386] Right?

[387] We're like 18, 19 years old.

[388] We've been on this, or me at that point, 20.

[389] We've been on this hamster wheel trying to spin it around as fast as we can.

[390] And we're just like, go to Russell.

[391] Like, dude, we need a break from this now.

[392] We can't keep doing this.

[393] And Russell's like, no, no, no, you got to make another record right away.

[394] It's like completely nuts when you look back at it.

[395] That's his lack of maturity at that point.

[396] He didn't know out of managed for any kind of long term because there was he hadn't been through any long term yet but to go back to your question yes it definitely was a lot easier for us to manage things as a group being friends and also being in the band so if you were isolated as just a lead singer or a solo performer I don't know what that's like it must be really difficult it must be really lonely a lot because even when great things happen you're still standing up there by yourself you know what I mean yeah you can't look next to you and go, wow, we're sharing this together.

[397] So we're really fortunate that it was the three of us doing it.

[398] Yeah.

[399] And when bad things happen, you don't have that person to look over to it.

[400] Or just like, it's not even bad.

[401] Like, there's just all this stuff that happens when you're in a band and probably when you're a solo artist, too, that's truly fucking weird.

[402] And so I'm so grateful that I had Adam and Adam, like, so we could look at each other and give each other this look of like, is this is weird to you as it is to me right now?

[403] Yes.

[404] is really fucking weird.

[405] And then also, again, I'm male.

[406] I'm not female, but I think for being a female in that position, it's got to suck even more.

[407] Because it's like there's, you've got people that are trying to patronize you and, you know, and expecting other things from you.

[408] It's, you know, it's got to be worse.

[409] Yeah, you're in a machine that tells you to put on a miniskirt, you know, at some point, you're like one of the best singers and piano players alive and they're telling you to put on a miniskirt.

[410] Now, the other thing that I've always, associated with you guys and knowing next to nothing once I watched the documentary is like you guys do have this this kind of guiding ethics and I knew that about you even from the outside like that trickled down even to me that you guys you were thinking about like we're the rally cry for this group that do we want to be the rally cry for this group and what group would we like to be the rally cry for and I think it's what's made you guys really unique and I imagine it's part of what sustained you guys through many, many years of it is that you were constantly evaluating your role in all this and being self -aware.

[411] It did bother you that you were like fueling something you didn't agree with, right?

[412] Or that you maybe, like you had written a song that was by now standards misogynistic and then Adam, you were quick to go like to own that and say I'm embarrassed by that.

[413] Like that wasn't really, I've never heard, I don't know, Tyler come out and go like, yeah, you know, I don't know.

[414] Maybe that line isn't fantastic now.

[415] Yeah, we should we should call Stephen Tyler out.

[416] I don't want to call him out.

[417] We're right here right now.

[418] I think I mean, you should do one of those producer like beats battles with Stephen Tyler.

[419] I just, I'm trying to think it's something to do with Stephen Tyler.

[420] How about, all right, how about here?

[421] I was going to say Instagram scat battle.

[422] Hell yes, scat battle.

[423] What's up with Scott battles?

[424] When are they coming back?

[425] You know, I haven't seen any Maybe because of COVID They're just, they're not They're not out there right now Fucking COVID Stay tuned for more Armchair expert If you dare What's up guys This your girl Kiki And my podcast is back with a new season And let me tell you It's too good And I'm diving into the brains Of entertainment's best and brightest Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[426] And I don't mean just friends.

[427] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[428] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[429] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[430] We've all been there.

[431] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[432] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, It's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[433] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated.

[434] Or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[435] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[436] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[437] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[438] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[439] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[440] I want to compare you to one other group that I was fascinated with is the Powell Peralta skaters in Search for Animal Chin.

[441] Did you guys like that video?

[442] There was an infusion of comedy with you guys that was so great.

[443] And it happened, it seems like we're of a generation where that was the first time it was possible.

[444] And you guys were leading it somehow on the musical front.

[445] And there were other groups.

[446] And then even within skateboarding, like embracing comedy as part of it, I think is pretty original at that time.

[447] And in some way, I'm honored for the comparison, right?

[448] Because we grew up as like these New York City kids that like were kind of skateboarding to get around.

[449] And for us, like, like Powell Peralta, like those guys were like huge deals to us.

[450] For us, that being funny was always important, it still is important to us.

[451] Even like with Spike through this whole process of like the stage show and the film, we had kind of argue with them all the times.

[452] We'd be like, wait, Spike, is this funny enough?

[453] Like, is this really going to entertain?

[454] Like, that was always an important thing.

[455] And I think there's something for us like as kids, like Yauk always loved Monty Python.

[456] And we all, as kids growing up, we all had a copy of Monty Python's big red book, which the cover of, of course, famously, is blue.

[457] Uh -uh.

[458] Uh -huh.

[459] You know, it's like one of the books I actually owned as a little kid.

[460] You know, do kids have comedy records now?

[461] Is that a thing the kids do?

[462] No, but they watch YouTube clips of comedians.

[463] We had Cheech and Chong records.

[464] We had Steve Martin records.

[465] We had Richard Pryor records.

[466] We had all these records.

[467] You know, and you'd play songs, and then you'd play comedy, and then you'd play music and comedy.

[468] And they'd go platinum those albums.

[469] Like, there's some huge, huge comedy albums.

[470] Rodney Dangerfield?

[471] Come on.

[472] Yeah.

[473] Sandler's had humongous comedy albums.

[474] He was like kind of the last, I think.

[475] Hanukkah song.

[476] Yeah, Sandler was kind of probably the last huge comedy album, probably.

[477] Adam, what interests you?

[478] Wow.

[479] Snacks.

[480] Snacks?

[481] I'm going with snacks right now.

[482] Right now?

[483] Snacks.

[484] Well, and something else, Adam.

[485] Puzzles.

[486] I'd say you're an avid puzzle doer.

[487] I'm fucking quarantined, Mike.

[488] Yeah, but not.

[489] I have to stay home.

[490] I haven't done one puzzle in quarantine.

[491] Not one.

[492] You've done how no is how many.

[493] Mike.

[494] You know what happened the other day?

[495] Look at this.

[496] I'm not talking to you, Mike.

[497] I wish I could put my hand just over you.

[498] I got a puzzle in the mail with no note attached and it's from Mike.

[499] Yeah.

[500] He sent me a gift.

[501] That's nice.

[502] That's so sweet.

[503] That's really nice.

[504] He's got a new name, thoughtful Mike.

[505] Was it a puzzle of you guys together?

[506] You couldn't have puzzles of pictures.

[507] No, our friend Janelle actually made a puzzle of a mini puzzle of me and Mike.

[508] That was great.

[509] That was great.

[510] I'm interested in snacks is what you want to know.

[511] And I think right now the top of the list is sour cream and onion soup mix and ruffles.

[512] Oh, we just.

[513] You're not going to believe this.

[514] Literally last week I went to the store and I got all the shit for French onion and dip and ruffles, particularly.

[515] And we murdered the family -sized bag and a jug of it.

[516] And fuck was it good.

[517] There's nothing like it.

[518] And how do you describe how you felt both of you afterwards?

[519] Oh, horrendous.

[520] Why a bring down, Mike?

[521] Why are you like we're up here?

[522] Listen, Mike, I used to alter my 20s.

[523] I was drunk seven days a week, did Coke only ate 7 -Eleven hot dogs and felt phenomenal.

[524] now I'm 15 years sober I don't smoke I don't do anything and I eat ruffles and I'm down for a day it's insane I don't know how my body used to be so bulletproof and now I'm so sensitive to potato chips I think all through high school I probably I ate a bag I don't just want to say ruffles every day sometimes it was wise I don't think there was not a day right in high school like when we'd meet up at like the rackage or whatever Adam there's not a day that I didn't eat a bag of chips Yo, Mike, I was not clocking how many dags and chips you ate.

[525] I thought you kept a food journal back then.

[526] You're kidding me?

[527] I thought you were logging my carb intake all the way back in 19...

[528] Thursday, February 14th, Mike, eating fucking chips again.

[529] He's got to eat a vegetable.

[530] I keep begging him to eat a vegetable and he just won't do it.

[531] Okay, I want to know how did the dynamic...

[532] between you three because I have a similar friendship with three dudes.

[533] There's three of us.

[534] Two of them are errands and they have to go by their last names, Weekly and Tyrell.

[535] And there's this beautiful synergy that exists between the three.

[536] Generally, I think three is a bad number for people because two always gang up on one.

[537] But sometimes when it works, it's so phenomenal, right?

[538] You can kind of pass that ball of like agitation can just be dissipated somehow.

[539] How did y 'all's dynamic change when Adam died?

[540] Like, what role did he serve in the triangle that took adjusting?

[541] Well, I mean, we stopped being a band, so there wasn't as much to do.

[542] Right.

[543] That's the short answer.

[544] Yeah.

[545] How about when you guys were together, did you have role?

[546] From the documentary, at least, he seems to be kind of like the spiritual wanderer of the group, like that he was just would get interested in stand -up bass or he'd get interested in recording and he'd know things and you guys were like when did he learn that because we're together all the time and yet he knows this thing and we don't so it's such a clear role it seems that he had it is that but also he had this older brotherness which which actually does come out of partially i think out of the fact that like when you're all you know 15 years old the fact that he's like more than a year older than me and then two years older than adam it's actually a big deal when you're when you're when you're 15 years old.

[547] But then also, and Adam and I talk about this often was that we're the youngest of multi -sibling households, right?

[548] We're both the youngest of three kids.

[549] And Yauch was this only child.

[550] So we'd grown up our whole lives just being at the bottom, you know, shortest straw, bottom of the barrel of compromise, right?

[551] Because that's what you are when you're the youngest kid.

[552] But Yaoq was free of all that.

[553] So any idea that he would have, he would just pursue without giving it a second thought or questioning the process.

[554] Adam and I had to always question it because we knew, like, if we try to pursue something and we don't do it right, like one of my older brothers is going to make fun of me in nanof seconds and make me feel horrible.

[555] Yeah, I'm a younger brother.

[556] And as I would be doing something, I'm also actively planning my defense for it when I get made fun of.

[557] Like, I'm spending as much time preparing my rebuttal to all four.

[558] things as I am doing the activity.

[559] A hundred percent.

[560] I'm just like calculating, waiting to like one of my older brothers is going to literally sit on me and make fun of me. So.

[561] Call you a homosexual pejorative.

[562] Yeah, it was free of that, right?

[563] He just could go straight into the idea without any of the luggage.

[564] Would you say that he led you guys in all these new directions?

[565] Because you kept reinventing yourselves?

[566] Or was it just this collective magic where you guys were always curious and find yourself in new places.

[567] I think Yalk was more of a world traveler, like he said.

[568] And maybe he led the way for all three of us, but the great thing, and I think one of the appreciations that Adam and I have for us that we had this whole long career as a group together is that we had this group where we could all go and learn stuff and bring it back in and put it right into the songs and right into the music that we were making.

[569] and unlike a had a nice experience of like when we have having older brothers it was like we we actually supported each other in that you know yeah what that wow this this is all this is all time zoom low you do you just learn how to use this chat function just now yeah okay all right I don't know if you have checked your chat I couldn't read it I'm dyslexic it came up and went away I want to see it.

[570] It's a note from Adam to the group.

[571] Hey, you guys, I'm really sorry about Mike.

[572] Oh, wow.

[573] Oh, wow.

[574] This is a first in our Zoom podcast.

[575] No one's chatted so far.

[576] That's true.

[577] Well, because you have to have two people on.

[578] That's true.

[579] Adam, I got to say kudos.

[580] You, you know.

[581] You broke a barrier.

[582] That's what I'm here for, Mike.

[583] It hurts me, as you know, to compliment you.

[584] But I'm going to compliment you.

[585] Thank you for my puzzle.

[586] But here's what I'm getting at, is that you guys had this incredible shared identity for years.

[587] And then when you lose one member of that identity, well, first, and obviously the band goes away.

[588] But then I would imagine so much of your personal identity is tied to the band.

[589] And what kind of process do you go through in the wake of that?

[590] What is the process of dealing with one of your best friends that you've seen basically every day for 35 years crying yeah for fucking no sure there's no process there's no you know just there's if you can if you have a specific process i i don't know if you're doing it right it just comes out you're just sad it's just fucking sad there's no rhyme or reason to it but i understand that people in the world know me because of this band right and so it it is weird And it's a kind of unexplainable thing, really, because then it goes back to the thing of like, am I me or am I the person who's this person in a band?

[591] And, you know, what's the line?

[592] Is there a separation?

[593] Do you know what I mean?

[594] But when your friend dies, like, there's no separation.

[595] Yeah.

[596] So it's just really fucking sad.

[597] But even when you close your eyes, do you not think I'm a Beastie boy?

[598] Like, I remember seeing McJagger on stage saying something like, if you want to learn to live a long time become a rolling stone and i was like oh yeah he gets to say he is a rolling stone he is yeah but what about brian jones just saying well okay i'm a bomber i'm trying to build a broader point that you just crumbled but but but but um you know i'm older you know i mean i've been through a lot if beastie boys broke up and weren't a band i you know i'd be okay like we'd figure it out me adam and mike would still be friends like it would just wouldn't be doing this thing and we were very successful.

[599] I'm very happy.

[600] I'm, you know, in my life.

[601] So I'm okay.

[602] Yeah.

[603] You know what I mean?

[604] But it's sad.

[605] It's just sad.

[606] Yeah.

[607] Well, I think it's also sad because you're talking about, like, even at towards the end when Yalq was doing treatments for his cancer and it was like, we would go to the studio every day because he wanted to because that was the thing of like, we wanted to be around each other.

[608] And so somehow Yag was still alive and we, we were still alive.

[609] And we had stopped being a band, it wouldn't have been because we didn't want to be with each other.

[610] It would have been somehow maybe we didn't, we didn't feel genuine or authentic in making music or whatever.

[611] Or we were just more interested, whatever the thing would have been.

[612] But it wouldn't have been because we didn't want to be with each other.

[613] And I think more probable than anything else, we would still keep doing it because we really look forward to that time of being with each other.

[614] And that's the unique thing in this whole weird friggin thing that we did for decades of our lives.

[615] And now I'm going to ask something that could be really offensive and I apologize, but I just, I'm not hip to it because I'm into comedy.

[616] Oh, big, disclaimer, big disclaimer.

[617] Are you still making music?

[618] That's the part I'm afraid it's going to offend you that I don't know.

[619] Why is that bad?

[620] Well, because you could have both had like solo hit albums that I missed and then it's like, yeah, right, right.

[621] Yeah, yeah.

[622] I didn't want to like, you're Walter Becker and I don't know about.

[623] I thought our manager, my personal management talked about this.

[624] That's why I'm doing this.

[625] That's why I agreed to do this.

[626] You're obviously not a fan of the L .A. Philharmonic or poetry slams because then you know what I'm doing all the time.

[627] My guess is just that you work out in Laird Hamilton's pool.

[628] That's my singular guess about what you're doing.

[629] I put some time in there.

[630] And what do you think I'm doing?

[631] Eating fucking ruffles in my basement.

[632] I don't have a basement.

[633] So there you go.

[634] I think, boy, let me look at you.

[635] Let me look at you.

[636] I'm a mess.

[637] I think I can make a pretty good guess.

[638] Well, let me just ask, Mike D. Have you ever worked out in Laird Hamilton's pool?

[639] For real question?

[640] For real, yes.

[641] Okay, so that's a pretty amazing guest, right?

[642] I don't know Laird.

[643] How do I know that?

[644] You probably knew already.

[645] I don't know.

[646] I did not know that.

[647] And Adam, you're in Pasadena.

[648] So my guess for you is one of your neighbors is like a legend at JPL, and you've gone over to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and taken a tour.

[649] Has this happened?

[650] I have.

[651] Oh, wow.

[652] Oh, my God, he did it.

[653] Two for two.

[654] Oh, my God.

[655] Is that for real?

[656] Not my neighbor, though.

[657] Not my neighbor.

[658] Somebody I met once was like, I work at Jet Propulsion Lab.

[659] I was like, oh, shit, I really want to go.

[660] He said the Mars rover is there.

[661] Yeah.

[662] So you went, right?

[663] You wouldn't go see the Mars rover?

[664] I've been to JPL because I wrote a movie about, had a lot to JPL shit in.

[665] So I got to go there and, like, talk to people.

[666] So you've written a movie about JPL.

[667] I have to start.

[668] And this is totally tangential.

[669] And with Adam on this.

[670] Zoom call, it's extremely dangerous for me to even go into this territory, so I'll give a disclaimer that I might have to text you afterwards to say, like, erase the whole hard disk.

[671] Now, what was the thing?

[672] Are you saying that I'm masturbating right now with a bag of ruffles on the couch?

[673] I knew it.

[674] I knew that's what you were going to say.

[675] I did not put that in the chat.

[676] So wasn't it that part or that was doing something else was Elron Hubbard.

[677] Scientology JPL connection.

[678] Well, Andy hung out with Alistair Crawley and they were all in the occult in like, yeah, in the 20s and 30s in L .A. I just read Strange Angels.

[679] I forget the guy's name, but yes, he basically was, he was into science fiction and all those guys kind of liked El Ron Hubbard because he wrote only science fiction.

[680] And this guy was blowing shit up in the Arroyo in Pasadena.

[681] And he was the only person that had a sense of what kind of rocket fuel would make the Rockets work.

[682] So he was brought in.

[683] He wasn't an academic, but he became like the best engineer there, and he ultimately blew himself up in his garage in Pasadena and died.

[684] But I wish I could remember that guy's name, but anyway, strange angel.

[685] There's a new chat, but I can't read it.

[686] And everyone, hey guys, I'm really sorry, but what does it say?

[687] Hi, guys, I'm really sorry about Dax.

[688] Okay.

[689] Okay.

[690] Okay.

[691] All right.

[692] Okay.

[693] Zoom games.

[694] Do you know Bridget ever it is?

[695] Do I?

[696] Yeah.

[697] No. Who's Bridget Everett?

[698] Comedian?

[699] Google.

[700] Bridget Everett is.

[701] She's a major performer.

[702] And me and Bridget and our friends were playing, but had a band for a while.

[703] That was blending music and comedy and all of that.

[704] Oh, I want to hear that.

[705] I didn't know that.

[706] Yeah.

[707] Yeah, I want to hear that.

[708] So there you go.

[709] Adam, wait, hold on, hold on.

[710] Land the plane on that.

[711] Where were you going with that?

[712] Like, you just threw that out there.

[713] No, he was saying what he's been doing since.

[714] Yeah.

[715] Mike, you got to understand.

[716] Oh, you guys.

[717] He starts these questions.

[718] questions he starts these questions and then it's like another five minutes of tangents and i'm just trying to i'm trying to keep i am trying to land a plane you know what i'm saying i'm trying to like hold it together speaking in tangents john and judy gotman oh yeah yeah yeah big big fan and i don't know who that is oh you listen to that i with him yeah i aspire to do the things they're recommending to keep i know i wish i were that smart But the Gottman's, it's really interesting, like to me that his whole story that he was this MIT mathematician.

[719] My therapist had given me like materials from the Gottman Institute, but I didn't know his background of being an MIT, a mathematician, and then applying statistical research to relationships, which just seems to make all the sense in the world.

[720] And I don't know what this is, so I don't want to talk about it.

[721] Yeah, sorry, this is real tendential.

[722] I can give you Adam the one -liner that'll have you interested.

[723] So he can watch.

[724] He's been studying since the 80s.

[725] Married couples have conversations, films them.

[726] He can predict with 80 % accuracy within five minutes of watching them talk if they'll get divorced.

[727] Yeah.

[728] I can too.

[729] No, you can't.

[730] No, you can't.

[731] You fucking kidding me?

[732] Tell me that's difficult.

[733] I think it's difficult.

[734] Yeah, to watch two people talk for five minutes and go, you're going to make it or not.

[735] And to be right.

[736] You can't, do you tell me you can't do that?

[737] I bet I could do it with like 60 % accuracy.

[738] You just said that you knew what type of person I am.

[739] You didn't predict.

[740] You did make a couple accurate predictions.

[741] Well, I made a couple of amazing predictions.

[742] Yeah, but I think that leans more to that I'm a savant like John Gottman than just it was random.

[743] And everyone could do it.

[744] Can you guess one thing I've done?

[745] I just picked two spectacular events that happened to almost no one.

[746] Working on in Laird Hamilton's Pool and touring JPL, make a prediction about me. I've got one 100%.

[747] Okay.

[748] You worked on building your own motorcycle, but you did not actually complete it by yourself.

[749] You needed help.

[750] Oh my God.

[751] That is not right, but what a great underhanded.

[752] Good guess.

[753] Yeah, no, I mostly work on cars and I complete them.

[754] And you've ridden that motorcycle.

[755] It should eventually got completed with somebody else's help.

[756] I'm staying with my conviction.

[757] I have old cars and new motorcycles, because I don't think I want to have a part fall off on a two -wheeler.

[758] I think you should have one that's mechanically sound.

[759] I don't might have a wheel falls off.

[760] Okay.

[761] Well, you guys have the label, and you guys ended up putting out Kate, so they have this beautiful part of the documentary, Monica.

[762] You didn't see the beginning.

[763] But their best friend when they were kids was this gal Kate, and she played the drums, and they were all together, and they very honestly own the fact that they just dumped her when And they got involved with Rubin and Russell Simmons.

[764] And then they felt terrible about it.

[765] And then they went to a mutual friend's funeral.

[766] And it kind of all brought them back together.

[767] And she, by your guys' admission, was just totally cool, ready to pick back up and no hard feelings.

[768] And you guys got close again.

[769] And then they ended up starting a label and put out her music.

[770] Oh, wow.

[771] That's a lovely story, no. Yeah.

[772] Well, and to add a chapter, she now works for James Corden.

[773] And we were on James Corden like a couple of weeks ago.

[774] And then so it was like, it was kind of funny because she did the pre -interview with us.

[775] And here she's this really old friend of ours having to ask us, you know, just to do her job, right?

[776] But to be on topic more, it was so interesting talking to her then because I give her just so much credit.

[777] She really doesn't harbor any ill will.

[778] You know, she really is like totally fine with being friends in the kindest way.

[779] she has every right to feel however she wants to feel she's pissed off she can be totally pissed off like basically we went low and she went high and it's you know she's a great person yeah and we're lucky to be friends with her last thing i want to talk about is how cute you were adam i mean you're still cute but you were no you know what is a bummer is that i never went into that like hunk phase can we talk about how cute you were for one second i know i know what happened i never got to i never i should have worked out or something i should have you should have it should have It's not too late.

[780] I'm you could go to Laird's pool.

[781] You got to get over there.

[782] What am I going to do at his pool?

[783] You're going to stare at he and his wife's beautiful physique and just go like, fuck, I'll never look like this.

[784] Let's do it.

[785] I can do that from here.

[786] Can I leave now?

[787] Did you want to be an actor?

[788] I did.

[789] You did, yeah.

[790] In 84.

[791] For a couple years, I was going on, I had an agent.

[792] I was going on auditions and all of that stuff.

[793] Yeah.

[794] And it turns out I'm a pretty bad actor.

[795] I guess do you think of yourself as retired?

[796] I fantasize about retiring pretty often.

[797] And then I wonder, like, am I underestimating how much self -esteem I get out of working?

[798] Like, if there's anybody I know who takes away very little self -esteem in any of the work you do, and you are good at what you do, it's you.

[799] You suffer from zero esteem takeaway.

[800] It's all here, Mike.

[801] Then what gives you esteem, Adam?

[802] Yo, my fucking chicken wings.

[803] I'm killing it right now.

[804] Yes.

[805] Are you using an air fryer?

[806] I just bake them.

[807] I got to say, it's something with my drive rub.

[808] Okay, can I implore you to get an air friar?

[809] Because I also have been making wings for a decade.

[810] And this air friar is, it turned the world upside down for me. How does the air fry it?

[811] Both of you, is breading involved here?

[812] Nope.

[813] No, but, yo, no, no, no. I made ruffles coated chicken the other night.

[814] And it was so good.

[815] We should do that.

[816] Are you sprinkling the soup, dry soup, as part of the...

[817] No, no, ruffles, just the chips.

[818] Okay, just the chips.

[819] So you just grind a little...

[820] Just like, say, pound the bag of chips, so it's all small.

[821] Yeah, it's a shake and bake.

[822] Okay.

[823] Oh, so you put the, actually, you put the chicken pieces in the bag of ruffles.

[824] Oh, yeah.

[825] Shake it all around.

[826] Wow.

[827] Well, Mike, as you know, you have to put it in the flour and the, you know, salt and pepper and all that stuff.

[828] Shake it up.

[829] put it in your egg wash and then put those in your ruffles.

[830] Bada bing.

[831] And then you put that in the oven, bake that in the island.

[832] Hold the presses.

[833] Dax here has an innovation that he thinks we would both better.

[834] Air fry, okay.

[835] Yeah, so here's what you do.

[836] You open up that thing of wings.

[837] I put this dry rub on.

[838] It's a spicy one.

[839] And then I spray it with olive oil.

[840] I dump it in the air fryer.

[841] I hit one button 20 minutes later.

[842] You would swear to God they came out of a deep fryer.

[843] It's the crispiest skin you've ever tasted.

[844] the fucking meat could not be damper, right?

[845] It's really good.

[846] It's the moistest meat I've ever had in my life.

[847] It's crispy and moist.

[848] And you can't, you can even put it in there longer than they recommend.

[849] It just gets crispier.

[850] It never loses the moisture.

[851] It's impossible.

[852] It doesn't have a skin like fried chicken has a skin.

[853] Let's be fair about that.

[854] Right.

[855] Like if you got like KFC, it's not the same.

[856] Well, there's no breading.

[857] Right, exactly.

[858] But it is crispy and it is moist and it is delicious.

[859] I really recommend you get your.

[860] yourself of Phillips, we're not sponsored by them, but I've gotten four of them, and that's definitely the best one.

[861] It's smaller.

[862] You're going to have to make smaller batches.

[863] You just deal with it, but the product is to die for.

[864] He's giving them out his presence.

[865] They're not big enough?

[866] I got a small one.

[867] I was like, this is amazing, but I can only make six wings at a time.

[868] So then I got this huge one, and I was like, six at a time.

[869] Oh, no. That's crazy.

[870] I was like, this sucks.

[871] So then I found out Phillips came up with an XXL version.

[872] I can probably make about 10 wings at once now.

[873] I can live with that.

[874] And I just do batches.

[875] So I eat them for 20 minutes as the next batch is cooking.

[876] Okay.

[877] If, you know, if you want to send one over, I have bought several for friends already.

[878] It put me on the list.

[879] Okay, okay.

[880] I'll get a hold of you through Wags sister's sister.

[881] Wags one sort of thing.

[882] Just call up the Polaris dealer.

[883] Text Arthur.

[884] Well, listen, I love you guys.

[885] And the Documentary is fantastic.

[886] It really, really is fun.

[887] And I learned so, so much.

[888] I guess my only, this is just a juicy question.

[889] Did you guys end on bad terms with those guys?

[890] Or just, we had a huge falling out with them.

[891] Yeah, but did you patch it up over the years or no?

[892] I harbor resentment.

[893] You do.

[894] I hold onto things deeply.

[895] You do as, that's like a character trait for you, Adam.

[896] You know, it's part of your thing.

[897] Like being grumpy and having resentments, that's like, that's your go -to.

[898] Do I look like I'm getting?

[899] Can I give you a saying we say in AA a lot?

[900] Maybe it exists elsewhere, but having resentments is like drinking poison, hoping your enemy dies.

[901] Yeah.

[902] I found that to be painfully true.

[903] You know, it is true.

[904] It is true.

[905] I actually don't, you know, people that I personally am talking about me have had falling outs with or, you know, whatever.

[906] It doesn't affect my life.

[907] Do you know what I mean?

[908] Like Rick Rubin, hey, do your thing.

[909] Russell Simmons would have, like, at the time, I was very angry and it hurt.

[910] Yeah.

[911] That's like we were hurt in the sense of like what I talked about before, that it just felt so much like family.

[912] And so to have people that you thought had your back and that were doing this thing with you to then be like, hey, well, if you guys don't do this, well, then screw you.

[913] And also, in full disclosure, like, you know, I'm friends with Rick.

[914] Right.

[915] Russell, I haven't seen in years and no idea.

[916] And, and Rick also became disenchanted, sort of around the same time we did.

[917] And he bounced out of the whole Def Jam thing.

[918] And it's just, it was no longer something he wanted to be part of.

[919] But, you know, he also said, I do think this is an interesting thing.

[920] Is ultimately, like, Rick said this to me, like, after coming to see one of the early iterations that became this film, he said, you know, kind of like the reason we can still talk about it is that, like, we as a band, we got what we wanted.

[921] We wanted to just like make what we wanted to make and be friends.

[922] And I mean, Rick, Rick's statement was like, you guys became this iconic band.

[923] And he's like, I always wanted to be a producer.

[924] And I got to be this producer and work with all these different artists.

[925] So I'm really grateful I had that.

[926] And he's like, you know, Russell just wanted to get paid.

[927] And he got paid.

[928] Right.

[929] Everyone kind of got what they wanted.

[930] I mean, for a very small amount of time, it did benefit each other.

[931] And then that it's interesting that I could then explode.

[932] Yeah.

[933] For a whole bunch of reasons, and then everybody goes their own way and gets what they want.

[934] You guys were all very young.

[935] No, we were really young and, you know, it was not like when 19 certainly didn't have the communication skills.

[936] Don't blame yourself for these things, Mike.

[937] Come on.

[938] It's not you.

[939] It's not me for sure.

[940] But it's not you.

[941] They stopped paying your royalty.

[942] Did that get resolved?

[943] Did you get you guys to sue them, I assume?

[944] You got paid on license to ill, right?

[945] I got nervous.

[946] No, we got totally.

[947] screwed over.

[948] It's not like it totally worked out.

[949] We got totally screwed over and we had to sue everybody and everybody had to sue us.

[950] And yeah, but then yes, eventually, you know, Def Jam got bought by Universal.

[951] We have gone on to make a lot of money.

[952] We got bought by somewhere.

[953] We make a lot of money for Universal.

[954] So conversely, they then, now we get paid like a normal artist would from a real company that actually pays people.

[955] Yeah.

[956] Oh, that's good.

[957] So, yeah, all's well.

[958] That ends well, I guess.

[959] way.

[960] All right, guys.

[961] Well, thanks so much for talking with us.

[962] And I hope everyone checks out the, you just type in Beastie Boys.

[963] Don't even worry about the title.

[964] Type in Beastie Boys.

[965] And you're going to, the first thing that's going to pop up is this documentary.

[966] And it's really well made.

[967] And it's a super interesting story.

[968] And you guys fucking won.

[969] Well, thanks for having us in your attic.

[970] Yeah, yeah, attic office.

[971] Yeah.

[972] What are we, what are we supposed to do with these Zoom mics?

[973] What other than turn them off?

[974] It's a present from armchair expert.

[975] Happy birthday and Merry Christmas.

[976] Oh, man. Thank you.

[977] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[978] So nice.

[979] I assume you guys don't have access to microphones.

[980] Yeah, I felt like a lot was insinuated when this arrived in the mail.

[981] All right.

[982] Bye, guys.

[983] Thank you.

[984] Bye, bye, bye.

[985] Stay safe.

[986] Bye -bye.

[987] Stay tuned for more Armchair expert, if you dare.

[988] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[989] You got a fight for your right to check facts.

[990] Oh, that's very, very timely.

[991] It's been a long time.

[992] That was good.

[993] Had to be done in honor of the boys.

[994] The beisty.

[995] The boys.

[996] The boys are fun.

[997] Yeah.

[998] Oh, it's a fun chap.

[999] They're just loosey -goosey.

[1000] They're the Beastie Boys.

[1001] And I like it.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] They wouldn't be the Beastie Boy that they weren't loosey -goosey.

[1004] That's true.

[1005] That's true.

[1006] They have such a fun relationship.

[1007] They really do.

[1008] It's almost like brothers, like older brother, younger brother.

[1009] Yeah, there's a real brother's dynamic.

[1010] Yeah, it's cute.

[1011] That's cute.

[1012] They're pretty darn cute on stage in that documentary.

[1013] Yeah, I only saw a little bit of it, but I want to keep watching it.

[1014] It looked good.

[1015] There's so much great footage.

[1016] That's Spike Jones boy.

[1017] What a talented M .F. I know.

[1018] It's infuriating.

[1019] You brought it up, but it's just so cool how they've run across.

[1020] across all of these people in their careers who end up being just the best of the best.

[1021] I don't think they take credit for it as much, but that's a thing.

[1022] That's a thing when you draw talent of that story.

[1023] Yeah, it's almost like the secret or something.

[1024] Mm -hmm.

[1025] Very, very cool.

[1026] Okay, so, okay, we talk about heights a lot.

[1027] Mm -hmm.

[1028] Robert Plant, you said, is definitely over six feet, and they said definitely not.

[1029] We talked about this on the show itself, but, yeah, the internet says six -one.

[1030] I don't know what to tell him.

[1031] Well, I don't know what to tell him.

[1032] Well, this double confirms because I saw him in Manhattan and he was quite tall.

[1033] I know.

[1034] That's what we were saying.

[1035] We were saying, you saw him, but we were wondering if he had lifts in his shoes.

[1036] We didn't know if Wikipedia counted lifts in your shoes.

[1037] Well, by the way, I think he might have had lifts in his shoes because if he's six, I'd swear he was six, two or three.

[1038] Wow.

[1039] If he's really six one and then he had a little help, that makes sense.

[1040] Maybe he's wearing like a boot.

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] Rock stars wear.

[1043] a lot of boots.

[1044] I can't do it.

[1045] Boots?

[1046] Yeah, do you like boots?

[1047] Yeah, I love boots.

[1048] Somewhere in boots right now.

[1049] Have you ever tried cowboy boots on?

[1050] I've never owned a pair of cowboy boots.

[1051] But have you ever tried them on?

[1052] Yeah, they hurt.

[1053] Yeah, I've never owned them, but I've tried them on, or I've had to wear them in movies or something.

[1054] And I look ridiculous in them.

[1055] It's not a look I can pull off.

[1056] Interesting.

[1057] Some guys, you see them in the cowboy boots, you're like, yeah, that looks totally right.

[1058] Did they look too short or something?

[1059] It just looked preposterous.

[1060] on my, I guess maybe it's just off brand for me. Cowboy, I don't know.

[1061] Well, you wear a cowboy hat, though.

[1062] That's true, but that's just for sun protection.

[1063] It's the most practical of all the sunshade hats.

[1064] Well, sure.

[1065] Well, the sombrero.

[1066] Those are pretty heavy.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] Yeah, like, I'll ride around the yard on the quad with a cowboy hat on.

[1069] I couldn't do that with a sombrera on.

[1070] It'd rip right off.

[1071] Yeah, those, they're very wide.

[1072] Big.

[1073] Very, very huge radius.

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] All right.

[1076] So we'll never know about Wikipedia and what they include in their height.

[1077] Well, no, I think we know.

[1078] So we had two differing opinions.

[1079] Then we went to the internet and it was, it was revealed that I was correct.

[1080] Well, no, we'll never know if Wikipedia includes like boots in their height, you know.

[1081] Right.

[1082] We'll just never know that.

[1083] That's true.

[1084] What story are Lilliputians from?

[1085] I said maybe Huck Finn.

[1086] That's wrong.

[1087] They are from Gulliver's Travels.

[1088] Oh, sure.

[1089] I knew it was a fantastical story.

[1090] Sure.

[1091] Do you remember what grade you were in when you read Gulliver's Travels?

[1092] I want to say six.

[1093] Same, same.

[1094] Yeah, I think six.

[1095] And I can still see the drawing in my head in the book really clearly of the little people who had strung him to the ground.

[1096] That's Lilliputians.

[1097] Oh, that's little Lilliputian.

[1098] Yeah, they're tiny.

[1099] Wow.

[1100] And that's why when people refer to somebody or something being Lilliputian, it means tiny or small.

[1101] Okay.

[1102] And based solely on Gulliver's travels on what year was gulliver's travels 1726 oh my gosh yeah yeah i was written in the late 70s no i know it holds up i really does i wonder i'd like to reread some of those old things now that i say sixth grade that actually sounds really young i think i might have been older than that i was definitely sixth grade i was at highland junior high and i was only there in sixth grade do you think it got updated for language i feel like it would sound elizabethan if it was 1700 i don't Ye Gulliver traveled to thine.

[1103] You'd think.

[1104] Thine, ye.

[1105] The boy, did I suck at those.

[1106] Did you guys ever have to do Shakespeare improv?

[1107] Shakespeare Improv?

[1108] I never did that, no. Oh, I was so bad at it.

[1109] I would have been bad at that.

[1110] Oh, was I bad?

[1111] But I did take Shakespeare, like in college and acting class, I took a Shakespeare class.

[1112] Yeah, and you had to play someone like a Shakespeare character that was opposite of you?

[1113] No. Am I conflating some stories?

[1114] Yeah, that's not me. Okay.

[1115] I guess I'm conflating the story where you had to play someone else in your class.

[1116] You'd do an impersonation of someone else in your acting class.

[1117] Oh, yeah.

[1118] I think she cried.

[1119] Oops.

[1120] Because it was so accurate.

[1121] That was so good.

[1122] I was so pinpoint.

[1123] So specific.

[1124] Oh, so we talk about comedy albums.

[1125] And he was like, do people even listen to comedy albums anymore?

[1126] There are still comedy albums made because I saw some, a list of like, top comedy albums this year.

[1127] and it was in 2018.

[1128] But when you look at that list, I'm sure all of those people are amazing.

[1129] But it's not like the top comedians are doing comedy albums.

[1130] Right.

[1131] They're doing specials.

[1132] That's right.

[1133] The comedy album was the special.

[1134] Exactly.

[1135] Before VHS and you couldn't rewatch.

[1136] Now we've moved to a Netflix special.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] Did you get any like historically who the, I feel like Steve Martin had the biggest albums?

[1139] Oh, I didn't look.

[1140] I can look right now.

[1141] Like sold, you know, like what a real.

[1142] real rock band of that era would have sold top 20 best selling comedy albums this has adam sandler yeah i know that's a big one as number one oh wow over two million oh wow number two jeff foxworthy oh three jeff foxworthy as well okay you might be a redneck if yep you might be a redneck if is three two is game's rednecks play okay four is weird owl oh that makes sense bad hair day Five is another Adam Sandler.

[1143] They're all going to laugh at you.

[1144] I remember that one.

[1145] Okay.

[1146] Six is a beavis and butthead, the Beavis and Butthead experience.

[1147] Oh, wow.

[1148] No, Steve Martin.

[1149] Seven, Dane Cook, retaliation.

[1150] Cookie Monster.

[1151] Eight, Dane Cook, harmful of swallowed.

[1152] Nine, the jerky boys.

[1153] Oh, loved it.

[1154] Really?

[1155] Oh, my God.

[1156] That was my favorite.

[1157] Oh.

[1158] Yeah, in high school.

[1159] I don't know that one.

[1160] You don't know the jerky boys?

[1161] Mm -mm.

[1162] Oh, my God, they were prank phone calls.

[1163] They were so funny.

[1164] Do you know, when I was young when Foxworthy hit the scene, like maybe 13 or something?

[1165] And I thought those redneck jokes were so funny.

[1166] And I had memorized a bunch of them at one point.

[1167] You did.

[1168] Yeah, one of them was, if your mom doesn't remove the Marlboro red cigarette from her lip as she tells the state trooper to kiss her ass, you might just be a redneck.

[1169] Oh, wow.

[1170] Oh, wow.

[1171] Good impression.

[1172] 10 and 11 are also weird out 12 is Larry the Cable Guy 13 and 14 are Larry the Cable guy 15 Jerry Clower so I went on a USO tour to Afghanistan in 07 and I think it was 07 and we learned on this tour that the next guest was going to be Larry the cable guy that he was coming through in the next week and so they have you sign all this military equipment and you see the names of all these other people who have visited on U .S .O. tours, right?

[1173] Like certain helicopter, everyone signs or certain warhead.

[1174] And so every time I was asked to sign something, I wrote get or done, Dak Shepard.

[1175] Because I thought, Larry the cable guy most certainly writes get or done.

[1176] Whenever he signed something, I'm always jealous, I don't have a catchphrase.

[1177] So then you've got to think of something to say.

[1178] And I just took his, and I like to think that he was so annoyed when he got there.

[1179] And he was like, what the fuck am I going to write?

[1180] He wrote get her done already.

[1181] Oh, boy.

[1182] Do you put the date?

[1183] I don't recall.

[1184] I don't think so.

[1185] Because then I think what happens is he just also writes his own catchphrase.

[1186] Is it his?

[1187] That's his catchphrase, get her done.

[1188] Right.

[1189] So he'll probably just write that.

[1190] And then the next person who comes will be like, oh, Dax Shepherd just took Larry the cable guy's phrase.

[1191] I don't think they're thinking it through.

[1192] You think I still came out on the bottom of that?

[1193] I do.

[1194] I do.

[1195] I do.

[1196] Okay.

[1197] Okay.

[1198] If he did notice it, it would be real funny.

[1199] I used his catchphrase.

[1200] Yeah, maybe he'd be flattered.

[1201] I hope he'd be flattered.

[1202] Okay, 16 Bill Engval, 17 weird owl.

[1203] Wow, he has so many.

[1204] 18 various artists, the blue -collar comedy tour.

[1205] That's Larry and Foxworthy.

[1206] And then 19 and 20 are Jeff Foxworthy as well.

[1207] I cannot believe Steve Martin and Richard Pryor are not on that list.

[1208] But maybe because.

[1209] I think there was a sweet spot in comedy albums that maybe was after Steve Martin and...

[1210] I thought it, yeah, I was wrong.

[1211] I thought it was, I thought the peak of all those was like mid -80s, those comedy albums.

[1212] I mean, unless this list could be wrong.

[1213] It's a billboard chart, though.

[1214] Should be right.

[1215] Okay, the JPL guy is...

[1216] Strange Angel.

[1217] Jack Parsons.

[1218] Yes, Jack Parsons.

[1219] Damn it, I couldn't I remember that.

[1220] Also, his name is John Whiteside Parsons, but goes by Jack Parsons.

[1221] And yeah, and he does have a connection to Elron Hubbard.

[1222] And, like, he was into, like, dark magic and stuff.

[1223] Alistair Crawley.

[1224] Yeah.

[1225] Orgies.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] The occult.

[1228] Well, all those really early rocket scientists were all science fiction nerds because they were dreaming of rockets before anyone else were, which was totally science fiction.

[1229] Yeah.

[1230] So there was so much overlap.

[1231] Yeah, exactly.

[1232] And then I was just, I just wrote down that we should probably make those chicken wings you suggest with the ruffles.

[1233] Oh, yeah, that sounds great.

[1234] Yeah, I'd like to try that.

[1235] That sounds like a tasty treat.

[1236] I finished the rest of the chicken salad at the track yesterday.

[1237] Oh, you did?

[1238] Yeah, it's so good.

[1239] And you know how I ate it yesterday?

[1240] How?

[1241] With my fingers.

[1242] I just did my fingers in the metal bucket and ate chicken salad.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] You just didn't want to use a fork.

[1245] I didn't have any utensils.

[1246] Oh.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] Well, then you did what you had to do.

[1249] misplaced the bread long enough that I just got impatient and did it that way that makes I would have done the same yeah I need another batch of it we always need another batch of it we always need another batch yeah um that's all all right love you love you follow armchair expert on the wondry app amazon music or wherever you get your podcast you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining wondry plus in the wondry app or or on Apple Podcasts.

[1250] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.