#1162 - Valentine Thomas

[0] Three, two, one, boom.

[1] You got to appreciate a person who shows up with not just food, but booze.

[2] You showed up, you brought whiskey and fish.

[3] That's very impressive.

[4] That's why, it's exactly what my mommy taught me. Your mother taught you to bring food and booze everywhere.

[5] Exactly.

[6] Well, you got a good mom.

[7] So your name is you, you would introduce yourself as Valentine, but your mom calls you valentine it's well i introduce myself to english speaking people i say i'm valentine right but then when i speak to somebody that speaks french i say valentine valentine oh okay because you're from montreal yes exactly okay um so i found out about you online and uh i've read your story and it's a very interesting story because you you were a lawyer right yes i used to be a lawyer I did my law degree in Montreal, and then I did my master -in -law before moving to London.

[8] And now you are a spearfisher.

[9] Yes, full time.

[10] That's kind of crazy.

[11] That's an interesting transition.

[12] I'm fascinated by spearfishing.

[13] It seems like a lot of fun.

[14] It seems very exciting and dangerous and risky.

[15] But how did you go from being a lawyer?

[16] And that's a big jump.

[17] I mean, you got to pay for an education.

[18] You had to, well, in Canada, do you have to pay for that?

[19] How's that work?

[20] It's kind of cheap compared to the U .S. definitely.

[21] It's about something maybe like $3 ,000, $4 ,000 a year.

[22] So compared to the U .S. is almost free, I guess.

[23] Oh, that's not bad.

[24] Three, four thousand a year?

[25] But still, that's three, four thousand a year for many years that you decided, yeah, I'll just rather.

[26] My mom definitely didn't get a good return investment on that one.

[27] Now, how do they feel about you doing this?

[28] Um, she still sends me university applications time to time being like, hey, when are you to study something different or something?

[29] And I'm like, no, I'm not having a midlife crisis.

[30] I just don't like what I was doing.

[31] So I just pick something else.

[32] Oh, by the way, I'm going to have to apologize for my English.

[33] Seems perfect.

[34] I'm from Montreal, so French is my first language or something.

[35] Well, listen, you're way better than George St. Pierre.

[36] He was here a couple weeks ago.

[37] And George is more hard to understand.

[38] And he was fine.

[39] Yeah, I'm not going to speak like this, and I'm going to try to make enough art. Well, listen, I'm impressed with anybody who can speak more than one language.

[40] I was just in Thailand.

[41] That's just amazing that they speak English so perfectly.

[42] You know, and then, you know, their language is so oddly different than ours.

[43] You decided when to do this.

[44] Like, how deep into your law career were you?

[45] It was about, I actually made a curious switch when I moved to London in 2010.

[46] So I started working in finance.

[47] so I work for hedge funds, and I basically decided on quitting law.

[48] I didn't like the part of law where I was stuck in one place.

[49] So, you know, when you study law, let's see in Canada, then even in Canada, it's even worse because I was studying in Quebec, which is civil law, and then I was stuck in Quebec for the rest of my life.

[50] And I just got like, ooh, that's not going to happen.

[51] So meaning that, okay, so like if you pass the bar in California, you would also have to pass the bar in New York if you wanted to work in New York?

[52] Exactly.

[53] Okay.

[54] So it's a long process.

[55] That's different then.

[56] Is that the same with, like, if you were a doctor, would that be the case?

[57] Country -wise, I would say, state -wise, I couldn't know.

[58] But state -wise, it is for law.

[59] Yes, it is.

[60] So for you, you would have got stuck in Quebec, and Quebec is a very interesting place because it kind of doesn't want to be a part of Canada.

[61] True, we're very different in Canada, but my biggest problem with Quebec is definitely not a culture or anything like that is the fact that it's an eight -month -long winter.

[62] It's rough.

[63] I'm not doing it.

[64] But the people are amazing.

[65] It is.

[66] It's a very European city, actually, in Canada.

[67] It's people are very about food, about sitting outside.

[68] Yeah, shout out to my friends, David and Fred, from Joe Beef in Montreal, one of the best restaurants in the world.

[69] Do you ever eat there?

[70] Yes.

[71] Woo!

[72] That's amazing.

[73] How good is that place?

[74] That's pretty good.

[75] That's a jamming place.

[76] So I'm sorry.

[77] So you decided you didn't want to be stuck?

[78] Yeah, pretty much.

[79] I kind of got like claustrophobic of being like, oh, this is going to be the next 40 years of my life.

[80] How did you get into spearfishing?

[81] Very weird story.

[82] I was, I got into spearfishing when I was living in London, which still doesn't make much sense.

[83] Right.

[84] And then I met this guy and he was like, oh, you have to try spear fishing.

[85] He would be so good at it.

[86] And he asked me to go do a course in Egypt, the free diving.

[87] So I said, all right, I'm going to go.

[88] Egypt?

[89] Yeah, in Egypt.

[90] It's very big for free diving, you did.

[91] Really?

[92] The sea is very clear and deep and the water is beautiful and it's calm very often.

[93] You can swim from shore and you have very great depth, so it's really nice for that.

[94] So I did my course.

[95] When they were literally kicking screaming, I didn't want to go.

[96] When I was 14 years old, I almost drowned in the side of France with my parents.

[97] Refused to swim in the ocean for about 10 years after that.

[98] If I couldn't see the bottom, I was not even interested in going.

[99] near the water, and then I was like, all right, I'm going to try this thing, and I go there, and I'm like, oh, okay, it's not too bad.

[100] No, it's not that bad.

[101] It's actually really cool.

[102] So he said, okay, well, now that you know how to free dive, in three months, we're going to this very big spear fishing trip on Ascension Island.

[103] Ascension Island is literally one of the biggest, most elite spearfishing destination in the world.

[104] You go hunt for big fish.

[105] It's right in the middle of the Atlantic.

[106] It's right between Brazil and Africa.

[107] It's a military island divided between the U .S. and the U .K. Oh, wow.

[108] I've never heard of it before.

[109] Do people live on it?

[110] Yes, they do.

[111] They have locals that...

[112] What language do they speak?

[113] English.

[114] Really?

[115] Yeah.

[116] It's a very, very odd place, but it's very pretty.

[117] And it's one of the...

[118] There it is.

[119] Jamie nailed it.

[120] Got it up there.

[121] What's the Google Maps tell us how long does it take to get there?

[122] Definition of the middle of nowhere.

[123] That's crazy in the middle of nowhere.

[124] Wow, it's between Africa and Brazil.

[125] That's fucking nuts.

[126] To get there, we had to go to the military base in the U .K., which is like about an hour and a half away from London, and we have to take a Burrell Air Force flight there.

[127] That's the only way to get there.

[128] There's no commercial flights.

[129] Really?

[130] It's a stopover on the way from the military base in the UK to the Falklands.

[131] So how does a civilian get a ride on a military flight?

[132] They allow about five civilians per flight.

[133] Oh, wow.

[134] So how do you book it?

[135] Do you do it through a travel agent or something?

[136] I didn't do the book king myself, but I think it's like through to the airline or something.

[137] Wow.

[138] It was a weird experience.

[139] I was imagining like when I was like being strapped down and then facing the other side.

[140] It's actually a commercial flight.

[141] Oh, okay.

[142] Because it's just bigger because it's meant for bigger guys.

[143] Like the movie Predator?

[144] No. I was really expecting that.

[145] I thought like a door was open in the bag and I was like run out.

[146] Because I have some friends that have done some gigs overseas.

[147] and they have had to fly in those kind of planes.

[148] That sounds pretty cool.

[149] Yeah, I guess, until someone shoots at you.

[150] Yeah, that would make it a bad day.

[151] That would change things.

[152] So when you were free diving before you went to this elite spear fishing destination, how long could you hold your breath?

[153] When I started, there's zero, probably like 15, 20 seconds.

[154] So you were going there with 15, 20 seconds with a breath?

[155] I was pretty bad.

[156] I just did my...

[157] deepest dive on my way there was something like 15 meters oh shit I'm Canadian uh no that's okay it's close enough to yard we understand what that is 45 meters yeah 45 feet yeah so it was something like that it wasn't that great and actually remember my first time I went spearfishing I was in a boat and the water was really bad it was rocky you know when it sees like black black because it's raining and uh -huh so I was in the back of the boat I was shaking I was holding my my little gun and I was like what the fuck am I doing here I'm like why I'm not watching TV right now.

[158] Like, I don't want to be here.

[159] I don't want to be here.

[160] I don't want to be here.

[161] And then my friend was like, come on.

[162] Stop being a freaking pussy.

[163] Just jump in the boat.

[164] Just jump in the water and come.

[165] I'm like, I'm like, okay, I take a deep breath.

[166] I jump in.

[167] And then the water that was so dark and so horrible and shop just became super clear when there was fish everywhere.

[168] And I was like, wow, this is actually pretty freaking cool.

[169] And you're doing this again, free diving, no tanks.

[170] No, no tanks.

[171] So I take my first drop.

[172] I'm a little bit clumsy because I have my gun.

[173] And then I'm like, oh, I don't really know how to dive with that.

[174] And then I took a shot on my first fish, and I stoned it.

[175] And my friend was like, oh, yeah, that's great.

[176] You stoned it, me, you killed it.

[177] I killed it on the first shot.

[178] Yeah.

[179] That's hunting terms, too.

[180] It's funny he said stoned it.

[181] And yeah, and then my friend was like, well, you're not done, you know, and you have to grab the fish.

[182] You have to drag it all the way to the boat.

[183] And I was like, all right, I grab the fish.

[184] I have waves in my face.

[185] And then I get, it was kind of big fish.

[186] It was a big, it was a good, um.

[187] Fish was it?

[188] It was a blackjack, which is not that great to eat.

[189] Blackjack?

[190] Yeah, probably something that not many people would eat.

[191] Why wouldn't they eat it?

[192] It's edible.

[193] It's not bad.

[194] It's just not a very flaky fish, I would say.

[195] It's a little tough.

[196] They mean it's a little tough.

[197] Oh, so it's just too dense or something?

[198] Yeah, kind of.

[199] They're very strong fish, so.

[200] Whoa, that's cool looking fish.

[201] That's what it looks like?

[202] Yeah.

[203] Oh, okay.

[204] It's a good first fish to deal.

[205] It was pretty big, too.

[206] It was about like 25 pounds.

[207] Oh, wow.

[208] Your Instagram is filled with this stuff, which is, I guess, one of the ways that I found you.

[209] It's hard to remember how I find people online.

[210] But your Instagram is filled with you with all these cool fucking fish and all these, I mean, you look like you're living a life of adventure.

[211] This is one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about.

[212] Is that a lionfish you killed?

[213] Yes, that's a lionfish.

[214] those they taste they're probably one of the best tasting tasting fish ever that it's out there they're fantastic do you ever get them on them are they commercially available do they or is it something in florida yeah you can find them at public's in florida oh really which is what i was very surprised about you just have to be really careful when you harvest them of course because if you touch a spine it's it's it poisonous yeah very poisonous but it's just painful it's not deadly no you can get into a bloodstream epileptic shock oh well that's So you can, that can happen, but normally you just have, like, if somebody was, somebody told me it's like you had a hammer in your head repeatedly.

[215] Oh.

[216] It's like a throbbing pain for about a day and a half.

[217] Whoa.

[218] So like a bullet ant almost.

[219] It's a paint.

[220] It's not, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you really try to avoid it at all cost.

[221] Oh.

[222] So what would you compare the meat to?

[223] Hawkfish.

[224] Oh, I don't know what that tastes like.

[225] So, or maybe a very tiny, tiny, cheese.

[226] Chilean seabass, maybe.

[227] Oh, okay.

[228] That type of, like, oily, flaky.

[229] Did you know that Chilean sea bass is not really a bass?

[230] It's a cod.

[231] It's horseshit.

[232] It's also endangered, but it's so good.

[233] Is it endangered?

[234] How's it on every menu if it's endangered?

[235] Yep.

[236] People are assholes.

[237] So you go to this one destination.

[238] You shoot this blackjack.

[239] Will you hooked immediately?

[240] Yes.

[241] It was the, not about a spivishing part, actually.

[242] I was still traumatized in the water.

[243] I still had panics attacks when I was in the water.

[244] But I fell in love the second I arrived to shore, and we barbecued the fish on the beach.

[245] And I was like, okay, this is for me. That's the same exact thing that happened to me when I went deer hunting.

[246] When me and my friend Brian Callan and Steve Ronella and Dan Doty, we were cooking this deer meat.

[247] by a fire and I was like this is the greatest thing ever the meat was so fresh because it was like from an animal that was you know literally killed hours ago and then we're eating it by the fire I was like this is I'm going to do this forever this is the greatest thing ever it's primal right it is it's you feel you feel what I was told people is that you know when you live in a big city like when I've never experienced that before I've never felt that I was part of the ecosystem whatsoever right and then all of a sudden i've been putting myself into water when i'm surrounded by sharks or big fish or different things and i'm like wow we're actually not on top of the food chain at all there's a lot of stuff above us that can kill us and it's it's scary and it's humbling and i think as a person you have to experience that you have to you have to put yourself out of your conference or to understand that you need to respect what's around you you can have tell me 10 years ago, oh, you have to eat that fish because it's bad for dear, I mean, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, sure, buddy.

[248] Right.

[249] And then you see in a plane, you're like, ooh, that looks good, and it's fine, and this.

[250] But then when you're in the water and you see what's going on and you see that a spot you've been diving for five years, all of a sudden it's empty, then it makes you understand that, you know, we actually have a very strong impact.

[251] And it's our job to understand and respect it.

[252] We're it.

[253] We're the ecosystem.

[254] We're just the one that we're the smartest one, sometimes.

[255] We're the only ones that are consciously aware of our actions and the repercussions of our actions.

[256] When you're first experiencing this, your first time, in this feeling of connectedness and freedom and just being a part of the ecosystem, did you imagine that somehow I know that this could be your life and your job?

[257] Not at all.

[258] I've never been hiking.

[259] I'm not a big fan of, I've never used to be a big fan of the, outdoors.

[260] I don't go to gym.

[261] I don't exercise.

[262] You don't go to the gym?

[263] No. I basically don't do anything.

[264] And then all of a sudden, I was living in London and a nice apartment with two dogs and a nice car.

[265] And all of a sudden, I was in freaking Africa camping in a bush, catching my own food and sharing with villagers that had nothing to eat.

[266] And I was like, okay, wow, this is...

[267] How did that happen?

[268] Like, how did you go from this one trip?

[269] I got invited to film a documentary in food sourcing, and I was like, okay, I'm going to try it, and I fell in love with it.

[270] And the second I went back to London, I remember sitting in my desk and I'd be like, there's no way I can do that.

[271] There's no way I can keep doing that for the rest of my life.

[272] And everybody taught I was completely crazy.

[273] I sold everything.

[274] And I just left.

[275] I moved away, and I have like maybe two suitcases of stuff for the past three years.

[276] I was reading somewhere where they were going to do an interview on you, and they decided not to, they were going to feature you in something, but they decided not to because of concerns for the depletion of fish in the ocean.

[277] And I said, that is one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard, because the impact of someone like you, what you're doing for your own personal consumption, taking a fish a day or whatever you're getting, for your own personal consumption, is negligible in comparison to all these people that are probably writing these articles that are going to buy sushi from commercial fishermen.

[278] They're buying fish from the store that's wrapped in saran wrap.

[279] They're completely out of touch.

[280] I mean, you're in touch.

[281] You're as in touch as you can get.

[282] But to think that somehow or another, you're doing something evil because you take photos of it and put it on your Instagram, who was that one?

[283] You had this amazing photo from a couple days ago with you with this big fish.

[284] It was so fresh and you guys were eating pieces of it.

[285] You had cut a chunk of it out of its tail?

[286] Yes, that was in Thailand.

[287] Yeah, Pouquet?

[288] It was, yeah, near Pouquet, actually.

[289] Yeah, we just went with this friend of ours with his family, and we just went out for the day.

[290] And we went speevishing with my friend.

[291] We caught a fish, and the guy was super happy.

[292] He cut it right on the spot, and all the kids were just picking on it.

[293] And it was, they were so excited.

[294] Yeah, there it is right there.

[295] The second they came that the boat arrived back to the island, they just went and grabbed the fish, and they were trying to take pictures.

[296] It was super cute.

[297] What was the argument?

[298] for not what was the piece that they were trying to put you in where they pulled you out of it what was that about oh that story is it's still getting me pretty angry so basically where i was speaking at that woman empowerment conference in new york last may and then when i was actually in thailand the the woman that is organizing it calls me and she's like oh look valentine like i need to talk to you about something and it's you know it's a little touchy i'm like what she's like well one of her sponsors said that if you speak at a conference, they're going to watchwa their participation in the conference.

[299] What was the sponsor?

[300] The Wall Street Journal.

[301] The Wall Street Journal.

[302] Oh, my God.

[303] And she said, yeah, they feel like that your lifestyle isn't aligned with ocean preservation.

[304] And she said, she didn't say it directly, but she said, and you know me, I don't mind that you have pictures in the bathing suit.

[305] I'm like, what do you mean, pictures of my bathing suit?

[306] Sorry, my burkini was not clean.

[307] Like, what do you want for me?

[308] I'm not at a beach.

[309] What am I supposed to wear?

[310] You're also swimming.

[311] I'm swimming.

[312] You're not wearing a bathing suit.

[313] You mean, it's not like you're in your high heels, you know, being an Insta model.

[314] You're wearing a bathing suit.

[315] There's nothing wrong with that either.

[316] But you're wearing a bathing suit because you're actually in the water.

[317] Exactly.

[318] I'm not in Miconos next to a freaking pool.

[319] I mean, I'm in African beach when it's like 110 degrees.

[320] What am I supposed to wear?

[321] You're not on a yacht with Dambles -Aryan.

[322] Exactly.

[323] Respect.

[324] So, I mean, what did you say to them?

[325] That's Wall Street Journal.

[326] That is so crazy.

[327] You know, and I get it from their perspective.

[328] It's a bullshit argument, but from their perspective, it's just about optics.

[329] It's about how it looks.

[330] That's all it is.

[331] And if they go there and people love to get outraged about something, if they go there and then they go to your Instagram and they find, pictures of you with fish.

[332] They're like, well, this girl's cleaning out the ocean all by herself.

[333] She's killing all fish.

[334] Yeah, I'm very good.

[335] You would have to be really good.

[336] I mean, have you ever seen a commercial fishing boat, what they do?

[337] Yes.

[338] Yeah.

[339] Most people haven't.

[340] Jamie, see if you could pull off the horrific effects of commercial net fishing.

[341] Because if you find a video, we could watch a clip of the video.

[342] It's crazy.

[343] When you see the sheer volume of fish.

[344] that they pull out of the ocean.

[345] And when you realize there's countless numbers of these boats and essentially pretty much unregulated, and no one's watching them.

[346] They're doing it all over the world.

[347] I mean, there's areas where you're not allowed to fish.

[348] But overall, it's nothing like the way we treat wild mammals or wild birds.

[349] The way we treat wild mammals, especially in North America, is they're very closely monitored.

[350] Their numbers, their populations.

[351] we make sure that unless it's an invasive species like wild pigs like here we go this is this is awful they take this gigantic net they circle all these fish and then when they're pulling them in you get to see the sheer volume see as they get close but that's that's that's one of the smoother way to commercial fish france is really big on on trawlers and it's two kilometers wide net that is actually it's scraping the bottom completely destroying everything destroying the coral this is electric shocks on each side this is actually a fairly mild one and it looks like they're getting these little tiny fish but me you could find it folks if you wanted to go and google it online but that is the issue too right that these these nets go all the way to the bottom and they destroy anything that they touch like the whole the bottom of the ocean just gets dragged and all the core world gets destroyed.

[352] It's this extremely destructive, but it's what, what...

[353] That's how you get sushi.

[354] There's so much, the fish industry, it's not even necessarily how you get sushi.

[355] It's how you get sushi so damn cheap.

[356] Right.

[357] But it's, by the way, if we keep doing that, there's literally going to be no fish very, very, very soon.

[358] But then, how do you explain that in Canada, you know how to spear fish?

[359] What?

[360] And you have to release most of the fish, you rod and rail.

[361] There's a lot of stories...

[362] You have to release most of the fish, you rod and reel?

[363] Yeah, too.

[364] In Canada, like the striper, the striped bass.

[365] How many can you get a day?

[366] Strapass, like one a day or something like that?

[367] One a day.

[368] Spear fishing, one a day.

[369] And the U .S. side.

[370] In Canada, you're not even to touch anything.

[371] Why can't you spearfish in Canada?

[372] Because the Anglers Association in Canada thinks that were the evils, basically.

[373] That you're evil.

[374] Why?

[375] Because you can actually see what you're catching?

[376] Yeah, so basically we're the cheaters because we can see.

[377] the fish and I'm like how can you be in your camping chairs on your boat drinking beers all a day telling me that I'm the cheater when I'm working my ass off diving it like 60 feet to catch my fish to bring it back and I risk my life I risk my life drowning I risk my life with sharks I risk my life with all sorts of things that can happen and you're telling me drinking your butt wiser in your freaking camping chair that I'm the cheater I'm sorry but no well people always want to think that everybody else is doing it wrong.

[378] True.

[379] You know, vegans want to think people that eat meat are doing it wrong.

[380] People that eat meat want to think vegans are doing it wrong.

[381] People who fish off a boat want to think that people spearfish are doing it wrong.

[382] You think they're probably doing it wrong.

[383] No, I have nothing again catching your own food as long as you're, you know, respectful with the way you do it.

[384] But there was a big scandal in Florida for the past years with a Brett Snapper, by example, and it was about like recreational fishing you allowed a certain amount of red snapper and then the season closes and when it season closes as an individual my license to fish is gone and then they give it away to the commercial fishermen and I'm like whoa wait so basically you're telling me that I'm not allowed to catch that fish for a few months because the population is too bad but then you're given my quota to the commercial boats that are catching hundreds a day they're like yeah no it doesn't make any sense no it doesn't but most people are not going to spearfish most people are going to fish so they don't you guys don't have a voice right in terms of like representative voice it comes to creating these laws and establishing these rules there's not that many of you and the food chain we're the plankton you know you had a commercial fishing with very big lobbyists and a lot of money money and then you have the anglers which is a little bit it's still not super bad because they still have big boats company and equipment it's still like a market which is good enough and then you have the spear fishermen right and spear fishermen's were not a lot in the worlds i couldn't even tell you how many but we're not we're not a million that's for freaking sure it's probably less spear fishermen than there are bow hunters that's highly possible yeah i would i would imagine because it seems more dangerous and difficult than bow hunting.

[385] It seems like the next level.

[386] It seems like one of the most difficult things you can do if you want to get your food.

[387] It's...

[388] Because you're going into an alien environment and you're holding your breath.

[389] True.

[390] But actually, the human body...

[391] That's the main argument I get from people.

[392] They tell me, oh, I could never do it.

[393] But the human body is actually made to do this.

[394] So there's a thing called a mammalian dive reflex.

[395] And this is very present in aquatic mammals.

[396] such as like dolphins, your seals and things like that.

[397] And the human have it in a very, in a way weaker way, but we still have it.

[398] And so when you immerse your face underwater, your heartbeat is automatically going to slow down, especially if the water is colder.

[399] So your body is getting prepared to hold its bread to catch food.

[400] And that's a new DNA.

[401] Is it preparing to catch food or is it just preparing to survive?

[402] To hold your breath on the water.

[403] Right, for some reason.

[404] I mean, I guess that was a very successive thing to say because I'm seeing catch food, but I just don't see why the human being genetically would have to go underwater.

[405] Are you aware of the aquatic ape theory?

[406] No. It's a very controversial theory, but the theory is that we evolved somehow or another.

[407] Like, you know, dolphins apparently were at one point in time a land animal.

[408] is that crew is that right were dolphins a land animal at one point in time I don't know if that's true I might have made that up but the idea was that humans were the only ape that grew up in close proximity to water to the point where we evolved in the water dolphins may have remains of legs yeah okay fossil remains shows dolphins and whales were four -footed land animals about 50 million years and share the same common ancestors as hippos and deer.

[409] Whoa.

[410] Scientists believe that they later transitioned to an aquatic lifestyle and that their hind limbs disappeared.

[411] Okay, so this is fairly recent.

[412] If you think about evolutionary terms, you know, the dinosaurs were killed 65 million years ago.

[413] So inside of that, 15 million years later, they were walking around.

[414] Which is fucking nuts.

[415] They were like hippos.

[416] They think, so Google the, whoa, look at what they used to look like.

[417] What the fuck, man. Google Aquatic Ape Theory.

[418] I don't know enough about this to really speak on it, but that has never stopped me in the past.

[419] But this theory is one of the reasons why they think humans have so much fat on us when we're babies, is that we float easier.

[420] And that if you take a human baby, you chuck them in the water.

[421] Okay, well, what the fuck is that?

[422] How about an actual article, not a picture?

[423] Is this cartoon?

[424] Well, but it's actually, it's not even just about your heartbeat slowing down.

[425] There's a bunch of things that happens and, like, crazy things.

[426] Babies know how to hold their breath.

[427] They instantly hold their breath.

[428] That's like their Nirvana album cover.

[429] Mammalian diving reflex.

[430] Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

[431] Proports that some humans, notably children under five, may also use this reflex to survive prolonged submersion.

[432] The mammalian dive reflex was developed in the 19th.

[433] Theory was developed in 1960s in explanation for well -publicized survival of exceptional submersion times of some near -drowning victims.

[434] but see if there's anything like an actual article that makes sense on the aquatic ape theory.

[435] There's a new aquatic ape theory.

[436] This is from the Smithsonian.

[437] Oh, okay.

[438] Hmm.

[439] Okay.

[440] Okay.

[441] The aquatic ape theory now largely dismissed tries to explain the origins of many humankind unique traits.

[442] Popularized in 1970s, 1980s by writer Elaine Morgan.

[443] The theory suggests that early hominids lived in water at least part of the time.

[444] This aquatic lifetile supposedly accounts for our hairless.

[445] bodies, which made us more streamlined for swimming and diving, our upright, two -legged walking, which made weighting easier, and our layers of subcutaneous fat, which made us better insulated in water, think whale blubber.

[446] The theory even links an aquatic existence to the extinction of human speech.

[447] The hypothesis was met with much criticism, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[448] 2009, Richard Rangham of Harvard University and colleagues suggested an American Journal of Physical Anthropology that shallow aquatic habitats allowed hominids to thrive in savannas, enabling our ancestors to move from tropical forests to open grasslands.

[449] So from 2 .5 million to 1 .4 million years ago, Africa became drier during certain seasons.

[450] already dry savannah became even more arid, making it difficult for hominids to find adequate food, but Rangham's team suggested that even in this inhospitable environment there were oases, wetlands, and lake shores, and these aquatic habitats, water lilies, cat tails, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[451] So that's the theory.

[452] The theory is that we, like, you know, obviously there's a bunch of different kinds of primates and some of them are still in trees today, those fucking losers.

[453] We left them behind.

[454] Ha, ha.

[455] Those are the ones that really dumb people point to, If people came from monkeys, why are monkeys still around?

[456] Well, they're dumb.

[457] They were the dumb monkeys, bro.

[458] Come on.

[459] Get it together.

[460] We're the ones that made cars.

[461] But that some of these apes spent a lot of time in the water.

[462] And that's why if you ever see a baby chimp, their heart is a rock.

[463] They're like, they're jacked.

[464] Baby chimp's like, they come out, like sinewy, no body fat.

[465] And you throw them in the water, they drown.

[466] They don't hold their breath.

[467] They just, they don't know what to do.

[468] They just gag on water and drown.

[469] Not that I know.

[470] Not that I'm throwing chimps in the water.

[471] But that's what they say.

[472] But if you throw a baby person in the water, they hold their breath.

[473] So this is the aquatic eight theory.

[474] But that's what scientists are basically saying about free diving.

[475] And this is, this is when I first learned about it, it completely blew my mind.

[476] How long can you hold your breath now?

[477] I have five and a half.

[478] Holy shit.

[479] But like facing down on the water and not moving and doing your preparation.

[480] Not swimming.

[481] No, not swimming.

[482] Just face down.

[483] How long can you hold it if you have to dive into the water?

[484] And so how much time do you give yourself?

[485] It depends the depth.

[486] It depends to fish you hunt.

[487] It depends on the conditions.

[488] It depends on a lot of things.

[489] So like if you're fighting the water, currents, it's more difficult.

[490] Yes, because basically what you want to do when you free dive is you want to be as calm as possible.

[491] You want to be as relaxed as you can, which is why yoga and meditation are often very, very, close to free diving because if your heartbeat is high then your body is going to need more oxygen that makes sense obviously and but then again the second you emerge your face in the water you do like your first dive and then you feel the pressure your body understands that you're trying to to hold your breath and you need to do that so the blood is going to start coming from from your fingers your extremities your toes and then your hands your feet so all the all the vessels I was going to start constrict.

[492] So all the blood flow was going to go towards your vital organs.

[493] So your body is getting ready for it.

[494] So they want to make sure that the oxygen goes exactly what needs to be.

[495] They make sure that you need as less effort to do anything as possible when you're actually underwater.

[496] Now, when you first tried holding your breath, how long did you do it for?

[497] The first time I did it?

[498] Yeah.

[499] I think my first time trying it was about a minute.

[500] that was like the best you could do yeah no techniques just ready go no no technique like like they you breed a little bit before even with techniques yeah with techniques it was it's when you hold your bread you have the build up of CO2 in your body because you're not you're not excelling any and then when your body realizes that there's a buildup it gives you an urge to breathe and then it gives you contract contractions like diaphragm contractions and this is what makes somebody panics you know You know, like, my body need the hair, and you want air, you want to hear.

[501] And then the more you train, then you realize that you're learning how to control it.

[502] And it's not because your body tell you to breathe that you're necessarily out of oxygen.

[503] So how, what techniques do you do to relax that?

[504] Breathing.

[505] So I do mostly, especially when I'm in the water, I do a very short inhale, so about five seconds.

[506] And then I do a long inhale, maybe 10 to 15 seconds.

[507] and then when you when you excel you're focusing on like everything getting relaxed and then you're sorry you say that again because you said inhale twice oh sorry did you mean to no so you inhale for five seconds and then you exhale for 10 to 15 seconds oh okay so you exhale slowly you exhale super slowly you use your tongue to control the air coming out and then when you do that you get as relaxed as possible and then the more relaxed you are that along with your mammal diving reflex which is heart being slow down naturally, your blood shifting from extremities to your phylogans, and then you also have about a few years ago, maybe only 50 years ago, they taught that when you reach 30 meters, your body would be completely crushed inside.

[508] That was a scientist would think.

[509] 30 meters.

[510] Yeah, something like that.

[511] That it was like that the pressure would be so great there that your body would be completely crushed.

[512] But then again, with that with that dive reflex, what it does that that overflow of blood is going around your alveolies and your lungs, which prevent them from crushing.

[513] Your body is actually a design machine to go underwater, which is completely crazy, considering that I've never knew that, especially going up in downtown Montreal.

[514] Yeah.

[515] And then you put somebody in the water, and you're like, hey, you actually made for that.

[516] So when people tell me, yeah, I could never do that, it's too hard.

[517] No, no, you're actually born like that.

[518] So was it like, was it a revelation for you?

[519] I mean, did you really feel like this is more of who I am than the life that I was living before?

[520] 100 % is I had this, I was living in London too, so it was all about, all about, you know, earning money to buy as many things as possible, to try and impress as many people as possible.

[521] And then at some point I was like, wow, I just, I cannot do that.

[522] I cannot spend in my entire life just seeking to buy things and press.

[523] people that I don't like and then when I started spearfishing it really gave me a different perspective on life it gave me them it it humbled me in a way that was so so intense that it changed my it changed my way of thinking completely basically so as I was how did it humble you like in what way because I realized that when we were let's say when I when I'm when I'm when I I filmed a documentary, I filmed a documentary called Aquanegra in Cape Verde, two years ago.

[524] Aquanigra?

[525] Yeah, Agua.

[526] Agua?

[527] Does that mean black water?

[528] Yes, in Portuguese.

[529] And then we were there for about five weeks, five or six weeks, and then the living conditions were really bad.

[530] And there was no grocery stores around, and we had to catch their own food, and it was really a self -sufficient type of trip.

[531] And the first week, I remember, the only thing I could focus on was, oh, God, this is, this is terrible.

[532] We don't have a shower.

[533] There's no hot water.

[534] The bathroom is disgusting.

[535] I'm starving.

[536] There's nothing around.

[537] And then all you can think is, like, how your comfort's gone.

[538] And after a week, that's the focus changed on the good things that we're seeing around us.

[539] and by having nothing all of a sudden and I was like oh actually now for the first time in my life can take the time to realize what's good around me and then how we were having fires with the neighbors and then how we were offering them fish and we were thinking oh you know if I give this guy two fish is going to eat one today and then one tomorrow but no they're inviting me neighbors to share and they make sure that it was like a whole community sense to all of it and I was like wow I've been living in London for six years I don't even know the name of my neighbor.

[540] And it's bad.

[541] It's not a way of living that I want.

[542] It's not focusing in the right things.

[543] And it's, it was, that's in that way.

[544] You know, it's realized how much of an asshole we actually became, and I just didn't want to do that.

[545] Well, it's a very recent way that people have been living.

[546] This way of living in apartment buildings and the way of living in houses where we don't know our neighbors.

[547] Yes.

[548] In terms of human history, it's very recent.

[549] And I don't think we're designed for it.

[550] I don't think so either.

[551] It's the human, I do believe that a human being to be happy, you need to have this sense of community, which is why, you know, when you go on the subway and you see like somebody singing, everybody's laughing and you see those videos YouTube and it makes you all warm and happy inside.

[552] Yeah.

[553] It's because that's what we're meant to be, you know, and it's we're meant to believe with other people, we're meant to socialize, we're meant to have this, this, you know, this strong.

[554] feeling of, I don't know how to say that in English, to be part of something, to be part of a group and people like that.

[555] And I do think it's this necessity for a human being to be actually happy.

[556] I think so too, and I think it's probably one of the reasons why so many people are so grossly unhappy and so depressed and so disconnected and they feel alienated, even though they live in these giant cities.

[557] People feel extremely lonely, even though there's a lot of people around.

[558] I mean, one of the weirder things about New York City you know, I have friends that live in New York City and one of the things they say they love is how many people are there.

[559] There's all this energy.

[560] There's all this energy.

[561] I'm like, yeah, you're not even talking to those people.

[562] That's what's weird.

[563] It's like you're alienated in this little 1 ,200 foot little cubicle that you live in.

[564] You know, this little, I guess 1 ,200 foot's not that small.

[565] But, you know, some of them, like, Ari's place is like, I have to ask them.

[566] I think it's tiny.

[567] It's probably like half that it's probably 600 feet it was probably like 5 million it's probably super expensive right but the idea is that you don't know anybody around you but you're stacked around all these people and then you go out you're walking around these people but you're not really talking to them and you have a few people that you're friends with maybe that you work with and you interact with them but then you're constantly surrounded by all these other people that you don't even know it's a very weird weird way to live whereas the way you were living the way you were describing this with these people and they're all sharing fish and they're you know you're everyone's taking care of everybody and giving some to their neighbors and sharing and that's how people have been living forever i think there's certain human reward systems that are built into who we are as a being as a species that just aren't being met and that's why i'm so fascinated by your choice to go from being a lawyer to living this you know very very very interesting life of spearfishing.

[568] But it's also, it's not always easy in the sense that I, I still haven't found a place where I want to live because it's, the society isn't designed for this.

[569] My lifestyle is very hard to adapt with modern society.

[570] I struggle with, with a lot of things.

[571] I don't know, I don't know where to live.

[572] I don't know, because this sense of community, you can have it in small villages.

[573] Yeah.

[574] So that's kind of why I've been living in, well, not anymore, but I lived in the Bahamas for a year.

[575] And I got to experience that when everybody knows each other, everybody talk to each other.

[576] Why don't you stay there?

[577] Because for now, I guess, well, I couldn't, I broke up with my ex -boyfriend, I couldn't live there anymore.

[578] So it was his house.

[579] I was like, all right, I'm out.

[580] So, but it is, I just, I don't know.

[581] I still need, you know, to survive.

[582] I still need to do, yeah, I catch a lot of my own food and my freezers literally full to the rim, but you still need money to live.

[583] Right.

[584] And how do you make money?

[585] I get a few things.

[586] I'm working right now on a cookbook and a TV show with a Canadian company.

[587] Do you make any money off your Instagram page?

[588] Yeah, sometimes.

[589] So some people do, right?

[590] Sometimes.

[591] How do you do that?

[592] How do you make money off your Instagram page?

[593] Like sponsors and different things like that.

[594] I just don't like being like, hey, drink my detox tea.

[595] Oh, yeah.

[596] Skinny tea.

[597] I just don't like doing that.

[598] And the problem also is, like, was it two years ago?

[599] I was a super big contract with a crucied company.

[600] They need a girl to like, they need a free diving girl.

[601] And we're not that many of us.

[602] So when they hire me, I did about a week later, she calls me back.

[603] She's like, oh, I'm sorry, we can't hire you anymore.

[604] I'm like, what?

[605] Why?

[606] And she says, because we're partnered with WWF, and our marketing department said that you raised a red flag because you spitfish for living.

[607] WWF, wrestling, WWE?

[608] A WWU, like the panda win.

[609] Like the what?

[610] The one with the panda.

[611] The one that made them change their name to WWE, the worldwide.

[612] Yeah, that's what it used to be.

[613] Okay.

[614] But what do you say?

[615] Is that what you're saying, the wrestling, pro wrestling?

[616] No, no. No, the eco -friendly, the panda, damn it.

[617] World Wildlife Federation?

[618] Yeah, that one.

[619] Oh, they made them change their name?

[620] That's why they changed their name?

[621] Oh, I thought they changed their name because of a lawsuit because they had to show that they were entertainment.

[622] I don't think so.

[623] Huh.

[624] So WWF owned it?

[625] I believe so.

[626] I didn't know that.

[627] I really thought that it was just because of regulations, WWF.

[628] WWF.

[629] So.

[630] So basically.

[631] Yeah, they said like, oh, because we really want to keep our eco -friendly partners.

[632] Meanwhile, their fucking boats filled with roast beef and chicken and all sorts of other shit.

[633] Meanwhile, when they cross, they're allowed, I think it's about when you're two miles away from the coast.

[634] You're allowed to dump your garbage in the ocean.

[635] What?

[636] Everything.

[637] As a cruise ship, we're allowed to open the trap and just throw everything in the freaking ocean.

[638] Come on.

[639] Is that true?

[640] It's true.

[641] That's the law.

[642] It's the law.

[643] Did they do that?

[644] Of course they do that.

[645] Oh, my God.

[646] And that's one of them.

[647] That's one of the problem.

[648] How many, they're five people cruise ship.

[649] How many straw do they think they use and glasses because they're too lazy to wash them?

[650] That's one of the problem.

[651] Whoa.

[652] And then the Bahamas, you know how much dredging you need to make for a cruise ship, a boat to actually pass and dock somewhere?

[653] You need to rip up the entire bottom of the ocean.

[654] So it's deep enough.

[655] It's a very, very detrimental.

[656] organization for the ocean and then they're telling me I'll sorry we can't where with you because you catch your own food in the water and sorry you're bad for the ocean I'm like what I cash my own food I don't buy this disgusting farm salmon from whole food because it's gross and are you telling me that I'm bad like what?

[657] Yeah most people don't know that farm salmon they dye the fish to make it look orange like if you buy farm salmon and they're not dying it would be a white meat because they're not eating what they eat naturally it's bugs certain bugs give them or shrimp what is it no it's um pelicans no not pelicans one of those little fucking weird the ones that people have on their lawns salmon is not pale orange it's dark orange flamingos are pink because of the shrimp they eat right yeah it literally makes them pink but salmon are dark when they're wild because of their diet their natural diet which includes includes a lot of bugs, I guess.

[658] Yeah, they basically feed them and whatever they have.

[659] Like, salmon is not supposed to be pale orange.

[660] Right.

[661] It's dark orange.

[662] Right.

[663] Yeah, I've caught wild salmon before.

[664] It's awesome.

[665] It is really good.

[666] But sadly, with all the water them that I made to make electricity and all the stuff like that, they killed all of them.

[667] Well, they killed quite a few.

[668] There was an interesting place in Seattle where you can go and watch the salmon swim up river.

[669] There's like a bridge and you go underneath the bridge and they have this set up where these thick glass walls where you can actually look into the ocean and watch the salmon go up the salmon ladder.

[670] It's really fascinating.

[671] So it's crazy to watch them.

[672] But one of the guys who was there who was a guide was explaining how when they were doing construction and doing various things in their building Seattle, they'd shut down one of the rivers.

[673] And these salmon would just get to the mouth of the river where they thought they were supposed to go and fucking die and it was crazy like millions of them died while they were trying to figure out a way to carve this path again yeah it's pretty weird how they died too you like rot yeah i went to i went to i went diving in the salmon river and in bc and i was underwater with my girlfriend i could see they had like big stains of like rot on their body yeah so they live like they full life in the ocean and they came to breed one last time which i guess is a good last choice when you think about it.

[674] Yeah.

[675] And then it just rot to debt.

[676] Yeah, it's very strange.

[677] Yeah.

[678] And if you catch them too far along the process, their body's already deteriorated.

[679] Like, you know, I know guys who have caught them and then you can, you know, they've, in survival situations, like people eat them because you have to.

[680] But if you caught them, like, towards the end of their cycle, their body's like mush.

[681] Like, you literally shove your fingers through it.

[682] Yeah.

[683] Yeah.

[684] Well, but you see, that's what people.

[685] eat.

[686] But again, you know, the Wall Street Journal and their Instagram page when they're promoting a recipe for shrimp that are probably coming from Thailand or salmon that is farm and very bad for the environment.

[687] But then they think that, I don't know, there's something ridiculously taboo about catching food.

[688] It's ridiculous.

[689] And people, imagine, you know how, I know how hunting has a bad reputation for, because of the blood and things like that.

[690] But But in fishing, we deal on top of it with a bunch of lobbyists that are fighting us for the fish at the same time.

[691] Because they want to sell those fish.

[692] Because they want the fish.

[693] Yeah.

[694] And all we are for them is something in the way, and we don't buy their fish at all.

[695] Right.

[696] And because there's so few of you, they can, you know, lobby you out.

[697] They can shut us down.

[698] They can say anything that they want about us, and we don't have the power to say something back.

[699] Right.

[700] If they shut down sports, spear fishing.

[701] There really wouldn't be much outcry.

[702] How many spearfisher people are there?

[703] I would lose my shit, but I don't think it can too much.

[704] Well, you'd make a post on Instagram, and a couple people would like it.

[705] I got 5 ,000 likes.

[706] How many spearfisher people are in the country?

[707] Let's Google just America, just United States.

[708] How many spear fit?

[709] How would you know?

[710] Because you have to have, you don't have to have the license for the ocean, right?

[711] It depends on the state Florida you do You do have to have a license And Florida you do Oh interesting Well it's like you know $25 license And I googled that And there's a city called Spearfish in South Dakota That gave me the populations I don't know how to find it How many Active Just write spearfisher men No disrespect To the spearfisher ladies I don't think we count that much How many spear fishermen are there in the United States?

[712] It's going back to that state or that city?

[713] It's going really fast, actually.

[714] The sport is.

[715] It is?

[716] It is going fast.

[717] There's like a trend now for people that catch the own food, and people are starting slowly.

[718] Because there's so many of big people, special celebrities.

[719] They're spear fishing?

[720] No, they're voicing themselves when it comes to food sourcing, and now people are starting to realize that hunting or spear fishing is actually not as bad.

[721] It's way better.

[722] But it's just very difficult.

[723] Of course it is.

[724] Sports Illustrated.

[725] There's estimated between 1 million and 2 million.

[726] In the country?

[727] Yeah.

[728] Howly doubt that.

[729] That's a lot of people.

[730] Yeah, that's a big estimate.

[731] That's like almost, that's close to 1%.

[732] Right?

[733] There's 3 million people.

[734] If there's 2 million, 300 million people, rather, if there's 2 million Spearfisher people.

[735] Yeah, close.

[736] Yeah, but that's.

[737] That doesn't make sense.

[738] That's ridiculous.

[739] I mean, even if it was one half of a percent, That's crazy So you're telling me If you get a room With 200 people One of them's gonna be A spear fisherman Get the fuck out of here Oh I'm sorry This article I just saw The Very Very Top is from 1954 There was only 80 people Alive back then Man That makes it even worse I feel like That's hilarious You talk about pulling it You know how people are Yeah bro That article's from 2016 Wow You should know If you want To take up spearfishing Wow By the know it all Wow That's crazy 1954 I'll try again Just give it shot Whatever I mean it's a great sport It's the best way to eat fish and seafood Oh I can only imagine I love fishing I love fishing it's really fun It can be a little stressful Sometimes I get that But it's Imagine if you're floating You're floating in a salt water tank And then You're looking around and then you're trying to meditate as much as you can, and then you're waiting, you're in a hunting mode, you're focusing on your prey to try to get it, and then you have like five grizzly bears that are circloning you.

[740] You're trying to eat your ass.

[741] Does that happen all the time?

[742] I try to eat the fish, not you.

[743] Do you get approached by sharks?

[744] And the Bahamas, yeah.

[745] And the Bahamas, they're pretty much always there.

[746] There's a guy who just got bit in Texas.

[747] He got bit by a bull shark, and now he has flesh -eating bacteria that's destroying his leg.

[748] Apparently, there's flesh -eating bacteria in the water.

[749] We don't need to Google that.

[750] It's pretty...

[751] That's a bad day.

[752] Pretty disgusting.

[753] I got a pretty bad encounters with sharks.

[754] Yeah?

[755] What happened?

[756] My worst one was in Tampa, actually.

[757] Something super easy.

[758] It was in 15 feet of water, and that's actually the dangerous pit fishing is when you start getting cocky.

[759] And you say, like, oh, water's shallow, it's fine.

[760] We don't have to watch each other.

[761] Everybody's doing their own thing, which is really bad.

[762] Definitely never do this.

[763] Yeah.

[764] I got my lesson break time.

[765] and I shot a little fish so I clip it to the back of my gun and then this tiger shark come in and I'm like ooh tiger shark they're a little bit they can be they're aggressive yeah they're not the nicest one you want or you want to show up and then it was a juvenile one it was still a good like seven feet long seven yeah about seven feet long but it was young and the youngs are really the one that you don't trust the big old sharks you know they're wiser They know, they check you out and things like that.

[766] But the young ones that went a little bit crazy.

[767] So they're going to go more towards you and they're going to go try to do like curious bites, which is what happens most of the time with shark bites.

[768] It's a curious bite.

[769] And so the shark is in front of me and he's charging me with his mouth open.

[770] So with my gun, I'm poking it.

[771] I'm poking like the eyes.

[772] I'm poking the gills.

[773] I'm poking the nose.

[774] I'm trying to poke everything that's going to hurt him as much as I can.

[775] And I'm not very strong, especially in the water.

[776] So I'm really trying to, like, bang this freaking gun as much as hard as I could in his face.

[777] And he doesn't back down.

[778] He keeps, like, circling and he keeps coming in for me. And at some point, I'm like, okay, like something, I'm going to have to shoot it, hoping that, you know, I'm not going to miss. Because if I miss, then it's the only thing between me and the shark.

[779] So you're poking it with the tip.

[780] Yeah, I'm just poking in with the tip.

[781] And then you roll his eyes back.

[782] Oh, which is when they're ready to bite.

[783] And I'm like, oh, shit.

[784] I'm like, I'm dying.

[785] And I'm like, okay, well, whatever, you know.

[786] So I'm like, I'm going to try to aim and try to see if I can shoot it.

[787] And then my friend arrived.

[788] He's like, oh, I heard you screaming.

[789] What's up?

[790] Do you have a fish?

[791] I'm like, there's a tiger shy behind you, buddy.

[792] And he's like, oh, crap.

[793] He was like a friend Felix in Montreal.

[794] He's like a 17 -year -old at the time.

[795] And you've never rarely spearfish.

[796] It was the first time you were seeing a shark.

[797] I promise his parents I would bring him back in one piece.

[798] I'm like, okay, I'm like, don't panic.

[799] Everything is fine.

[800] How deep is water?

[801] Like 15 feet of water?

[802] It was so shallow.

[803] So I'm like, put you back against mine and then cover you half.

[804] And if he comes too close, just spoke it.

[805] And the shark came in a couple of times.

[806] And then because we were two, he was like, eh, whatever.

[807] And he just left.

[808] He didn't like that.

[809] That he was outnumbered.

[810] And I'm like, wow.

[811] So when I was alone with the shark, I was screaming in the water.

[812] And I was like calling my friends for help.

[813] and then nobody could hear me. And then we went back to the boat.

[814] If you scream under the water, how far away can people hear you?

[815] Not too far.

[816] 10 feet, 15 feet?

[817] It depends on the wave again and the winds and everything like that.

[818] But nobody could definitely hear me. Then when I get back on the boat, my friend, I see my friend swimming towards the boat.

[819] And he screams, Tiger Shark!

[820] I'm like, no shit, dumb ass.

[821] I've been like screaming for your help for the past half an hour.

[822] And then you get to the boat, and we left, and the Sharp were like circling.

[823] It was like, ooh.

[824] I was really scared.

[825] but in that situation again if I had shot the shark to save myself it's I would have got the worst publicity ever it's it's I just that's one of the thing I don't understand when did that happen where sharks became something that are protected in the public eye because was it the governor of New York that killed that shark when he was fishing Someone, was the governor, the mayor, one of those guys, was sport fishing, caught a shark, and who was it, the governor?

[826] Yeah, Cuomo.

[827] Very common in the States, shy fishing.

[828] Well, they're edible.

[829] I've had Mako shark in restaurants before, but something happened, something changed.

[830] And I think it was when there was all this awareness about shark fin soup.

[831] Yeah, there it is.

[832] Andrew Cuomo, he caught 154 -pound thresher shark, and everybody freaked the fuck out.

[833] It's when they realized that the Asians were catching millions a day to make a shark fin soup.

[834] Yeah, so it became, instead of it being something that was just another fish, then it became something that's protected.

[835] And people with a very shallow understanding of what a shark is were freaking out about it.

[836] Yeah, exactly.

[837] The Asians are winning for everybody else.

[838] How dare you.

[839] Be careful today.

[840] Especially with crazy rich Asians, number one in the box.

[841] off us.

[842] I mean, it's that that practice of chopping off the fins and throwing the sharks back is horrific, but there's sustainable populations of some sharks.

[843] I mean, apparently off of the coast of California near Catalina Island, the Channel Islands, a lot of Mako sharks out there.

[844] And then Great Whites, actually, the populations of sharks right now, and California is very high of Great White.

[845] Yeah.

[846] Because the steel population became really high, and then because, you You know, the Great White Sharks population takes more time to grow.

[847] Now we're at a stage where there's a shit tons of lionfish, and now there's a lot of great whites too.

[848] But Great Whites are protected, right?

[849] Yes, yes, definitely.

[850] Are Tiger Sharks protected?

[851] Shires are protected in a lot of places.

[852] In Florida, I don't think you're allowed to eat.

[853] Depends where.

[854] Some marinas are very funny about it.

[855] And New York, I went Spivishing in New York about a couple months ago, and a guy was like, cutting a mako in a dog and nobody seemed to be offended by it at all.

[856] Well, people that are on the water, people that are fisher people, they wouldn't be offended.

[857] It's the casual person on the outside that gets offended.

[858] Yeah, exactly.

[859] But again, you know, that's what the double -edgedged sword of the Internet.

[860] You know, it gave a voice to everybody.

[861] Exactly.

[862] But it's just like, you know, I remember that gorilla thing.

[863] What was his name?

[864] Rambi?

[865] Yeah, people are like, oh, this is terrible.

[866] They should have never shot the gorilla.

[867] they should have shut the mother instead?

[868] I'm like, what?

[869] What?

[870] We're saying when a surfer gets bitten by a shark, they're like, oh, it's his fault, it was in its territory.

[871] Like, you shouldn't have, like, done anything to the shark.

[872] I'm like, put your mother in that case with that gorilla.

[873] Then tell me which one you're going to shoot.

[874] My money's not in the freaking, my money's not of your mother.

[875] It's probably going to be in the gorilla.

[876] Yeah, I wish there was another way.

[877] I mean, I don't know that they needed to shoot that gorilla.

[878] I don't know enough about guerrilla behavior.

[879] I would like to think that the gorilla wouldn't have done anything to the baby, but I don't know anything.

[880] I don't know much about this situation enough It's sad But if I have to choose a baby over gorilla I'm taking the baby every time I'm going to save the baby It's a fucking human It's yeah but it's easy to be irrational When it's not you And you don't have any stake in the game You're talking about it from the sidelines And that's people talking about sharks That's people talking about bears That's people talking about a lot of animals Yeah pretty much And this is why spear fishing, hunting or is this very well hated, I guess, around the world?

[881] I have friends that run a bear hunting operation in Alberta.

[882] Shout out to John and Jen.

[883] Saw them this weekend in Calgary.

[884] They run a bear hunting operation.

[885] They run a hunting operation, but they spend a good amount of time bear hunting, black bears.

[886] And the black bear population up there is incredibly dense.

[887] There's so many of them.

[888] They're everywhere.

[889] And they decimate the deer population.

[890] decimate the moose, the elk.

[891] They eat all the babies, and they cannibalize each other.

[892] I mean, they're beautiful animals.

[893] They're fascinating.

[894] They're interesting.

[895] I'm glad they're around, but their populations need to be controlled.

[896] There's a lot of them.

[897] And they're delicious.

[898] And all these things are like, they fly in the face of reason for most people.

[899] They think if you're shooting a bear, that you're a trophy hunter, like someone who's shooting a rhino or something like that.

[900] Someone who's a terrible person wants to shoot something that's endangered.

[901] They are as far from endangered as as humanly possible.

[902] They're not in danger by any stretch to the imagination.

[903] They live in dense forests, and there's a giant number of them, and you can shoot two of them up there.

[904] They encourage you to shoot two of them.

[905] They're trying to thin out the population because of the effect they have on the undulates up there.

[906] But it's one of those animals that my friend Steve Ronella calls them charismatic megafauna.

[907] It's cute.

[908] Yeah.

[909] It's just we've made them into movie characters and TV show characters, and people have this idea of what they are based on just this sort of image that gets portrayed in the public and we accept this narrative.

[910] And I think that's happening right now with sharks.

[911] You know, no one wants sharks to go extinct.

[912] I think sharks are awesome.

[913] They're cool.

[914] But they're also edible.

[915] And if there's a lot of them, I've seen people catch Mako sharks off of the coast of California and cut them up and make shark steaks up and eat them.

[916] and it used to be normal.

[917] No one cared until I feel like within the last decade, something happened in the last decade that people became incredibly outraged when someone kills a shark.

[918] I actually think that people became outraged when you kill anything.

[919] But they're so hypocritical because they're killing things left and right with their pocketbook.

[920] They just don't know it.

[921] They're killing things with cash.

[922] If you buy fish in the store, you're killing fish.

[923] I don't care if you like the thing.

[924] think you're not, you are.

[925] You're supporting the fish industry, you're supporting the killing of these animals, you're eating them.

[926] It's a direct connection.

[927] You're paying a supermarket hitman to go out and do the work for you.

[928] One hundred percent.

[929] If you eat fish, you cannot be against peppishing.

[930] If you eat meat, you cannot be against hunting.

[931] But it's also the weirdness of it.

[932] I went to Whole Foods today before I came here to get some lunch.

[933] And as I'm walking through, because I was thinking that I was going to have this conversation with you today, and I'm walking by these long aisles of ice with these fish on it and I could just point to one of those fish and go hey give me that thing no connection whatsoever to where that thing came from how it got there I just take it and I could bring it here I probably should have just for effect to slap it down on the table well imagine the amounts of grocery stores as a country with a fish display which is completely full well let's just imagine in this area there's a whole foods that's about two miles up this way.

[934] And then if we go down the street, there's another one.

[935] There's a sprouts.

[936] They have a fish section.

[937] Then we go a little bit further down.

[938] There's a Gelson's.

[939] They have a big fish section.

[940] There's just fish all over the place.

[941] But the ocean's pretty fucking far from here.

[942] I mean, you have to drive to get to the ocean, and they're not going to the ocean and pulling these fish out themselves.

[943] It's all coming from a giant commercial boat that distributes it all throughout Southern California.

[944] all throughout northern California, all throughout, then you get into the middle of the country.

[945] That's where it gets really crazy.

[946] If you're buying halibut and you're in South Dakota, where the fuck is that coming from?

[947] Alaska, probably.

[948] Yeah, you're not supposed to eat halibut if you live there.

[949] I completely agree.

[950] He should be close.

[951] Should be close, though.

[952] I mean, I'm just kidding.

[953] Eat how about bed.

[954] Eat whatever you've got to eat.

[955] But it's, we're weird.

[956] People are weird.

[957] And our connection with food.

[958] All of those boats, you know, I mean, the states is actually doing a way better job than a lot of countries.

[959] I must admit, on the countryal fisheries.

[960] But when I see laws and regulations on the small little individual anglers or spear fishermen.

[961] Yeah.

[962] And then I see a swallow that I can catch everything you want.

[963] That's just, it's just borers my blood to a next level.

[964] Well, it's insane.

[965] And in our lifetime, the population has decreased radically.

[966] and there's no better example than that than the Tokyo fish markets.

[967] You know, the Tokyo fish markets who interview those guys, and they talk about what it used to be like when they just the amount of tuna that they used to deal with and the amount they deal with now.

[968] It's a significant dip, and this is within, you know, 40 years.

[969] Like, what is it going to be like 40 years from now?

[970] And the estimates are that it's going to be a radical decrease in the population of almost all fish.

[971] Yeah, for sure.

[972] And it's, that's the problem.

[973] People want to have access to everything now.

[974] If we would put regulations on everybody's fish, it's like, okay, look everybody, I know you want your salmon, but it's going to be close of January to May. I know you want your halibut, but you can't eat it this year.

[975] We yield it next year.

[976] If we would be willing to live with just, I mean, I think people would survive it, that's for sure, because I don't think people would get used to pretty much anything.

[977] but then the industry is worth so much money that they're not willing to do that.

[978] It's not just the industry is worth so much money is that there's certain people and certain countries in particular where that is all they have.

[979] I mean, there's certain people out there where they're dependent upon the ocean and it's bounty for their survival.

[980] And if they can't sell fish and they can't buy fish and we're talking about individual fisher people that have boats and are doing it on their own small -scale commercial fishermen, there's not a lot of room for error there.

[981] making a ton of money those aren't a problem though like the small family uh commercial fishing boat they're not the problem i mean it's when you see when you see those guys bring it you know like the guy in a video earlier yeah he's catching a big net he's catching like quite a bit of fish but the reality of things are ships foreign ships raiding the entire ocean with with nets are like kilometers long yeah like a fillet a net is an a mile long yeah and you just catch everything you can in it and then you're like next to it turtles turtles dolphins sharks everything yeah and then it's not it's not the freaking johnson family that lives in in north Carolina or catching lobster and and then then tuna that are making a problem but you would have to have some regulations that were accepted by all these different countries too and that would be a real difficult thing to pull off to get these countries to accept that they're going to lose money and to do it in a timely fashion where these fish could actually bounce back it's not going to happen until there's nothing left that's crazy and it's everybody sees it everybody is talking about it but when you look at the sheer size of the ocean the idea that we could fish the ocean out is so crazy that's a lot of fish but when you see those commercial boats and how the quantity of fish they manage to take out of the ocean it's a lot of fish that's a lot of fish fish.

[982] Is there any talk about doing something about this?

[983] Is there anything on the table?

[984] Is there any discussion about regulating the amount of fish that these gigantic boats can pull out?

[985] Well, again, the U .S. is trying to regulate that, and they actually made efforts that proved to increase the amount of fish, or it's good.

[986] They're actually working in the right direction.

[987] But the problem is that still to this day, I'm not sure exactly how many, how many, not equal mile you have to be, but a Russian or Chinese foreigner, trawler, is allowed to fish from the coast of the United States.

[988] And international water to just rate everything, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[989] Who's going to regulate that?

[990] Right.

[991] The U .N., China's going to be like, yeah, sure, buddy.

[992] Yeah, I mean, look, Japan's still killing whales.

[993] You know, they kill whales under the guise of science.

[994] Have you seen how they do that?

[995] The Sea Shepherd bus those guys?

[996] They pretended that it was for science.

[997] Yeah, and then they kill them and sell them.

[998] I mean, it's really fucked up.

[999] You know, this same exact problem was going on in the United States in the 1800s.

[1000] Market hunting is what they were calling it, where they devastated all the wildlife in North America.

[1001] The buffalo population was almost brought to extinction levels, really close.

[1002] There's still some wild herds that exist in Mexico, and there were some of them that exist in the United States.

[1003] And now they brought them back.

[1004] But to this day, the majority of Buffalo that live in North America are all on private land, the majority of them.

[1005] But at one point in time, there's millions and millions of them all throughout the country.

[1006] Elk, they've only been repopulated to a small percentage of their original range.

[1007] I think it's something like 30%.

[1008] There's some animals that have thrived like white -tailed deer because they live primarily in full.

[1009] farmlands and farmlands have gotten so huge that they they were essentially like farm animals now it's very strange like when you think of white -tailed deer the places where they're the most popular that's like santa claust years right no that's actually reindeer that's a caribou yeah caribou are these migrating deer that live in Canada primarily and in Alaska and they migrate for hundreds and hundreds of miles in these massive herds they're very different and that You know, unlike deer, you'll see them, like hundreds of them moving together in one group, in one line across the tundra.

[1010] But these animals that were in North America, not Alaska, but North America, no, not the lower 48, they were wiped out almost to nothing.

[1011] Antelope, deer, elk, buffalo, they were almost all wiped out by market hunting because this was back when we didn't have refrigerators.

[1012] So people would shoot these things and bring them to market And people would go to market and buy that meat And they would bring it in on trucks I mean I guess they just have blocks of ice And these trains and trucks And they would bring in this meat And they killed almost everything And it's a short amount of time Like less than 100 years There was almost nothing left And then they instituted these laws Where it was illegal to sell wild game So if you buy elk Like say in this country If you buy elk meat You're buying it from New Zealand You're getting it from So it's actually enforced right now still.

[1013] Yeah, yeah.

[1014] There are some commercial farms.

[1015] I don't know what they sell.

[1016] I mean, I think you can sell commercially raised deer and elk in America.

[1017] But if you go to a restaurant, most of what you're getting, you're actually getting from New Zealand.

[1018] Really?

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] But you can't go to the woods.

[1021] Like, say if you went to the woods and you went and shot an elk like that one up there and you try to sell, it's illegal to sell.

[1022] You can't sell that meat.

[1023] It's not a marketable product.

[1024] It's something that has to, you have to have a tag for it, you have to pay for the tag, and then it has to be for your own personal consumption, or you can give it away to your friends, but you can't sell it.

[1025] Okay, which is not much of a bad thing, yeah.

[1026] It's the only way.

[1027] They had to eliminate market hunting was the only way to bring these populations back, and then they had to enforce these very strict conservation efforts.

[1028] And then here's the big one is, I think it's called the Pickman -Robertson app, whatever the, the Pickman -Robertson, is that it is?

[1029] That's the name of it.

[1030] But what it is is it takes 10 % of all of the proceeds from hunting supplies and gear and puts it to wildlife conservation, which is an enormous amount of money, billions and billions of dollars.

[1031] So it goes to preserve habitat and wetlands, goes to reintroduce species into places where they had been decimated.

[1032] Like elk are now in viable numbers in places where they were completely extinct, like in Virginia.

[1033] I think Tennessee has them now as well.

[1034] Kentucky, I know, has them.

[1035] Pennsylvania has them.

[1036] And at one point in time, there was none there, like, up until, you know, just a few decades ago.

[1037] If things are actually handled an irresponsible and smart way, we can, there is a way to save everything.

[1038] But this is the United States.

[1039] Like, the United States is like, it's on land, it's controllable, you know, it's our, it's within these.

[1040] the boundaries of this one country, you know, the control is accepted.

[1041] When you're talking about the ocean, it'll be really difficult to get other countries to agree to that kind of strict management that brought back wildlife in North America to do that to the ocean.

[1042] But if they did do that to the ocean, I mean, maybe everything could bounce back.

[1043] I mean, a few states, Florida is definitely one of them, where they're looking very closely to what's going on and then they have close seasons and things like that and actually makes it really nice and big difference but again i think the problem is not coming from that the problem is coming from again like deep trawling and the commercial foreign commercial fishing that's a big industry in florida it is florida sport fishing is a giant industry people go there every year to grouper fish and fish for tarp in and you know there's there's a lot of fishing in Florida, and it's probably a pretty significant part of their economy.

[1044] Yeah, I think I read somewhere that actually the number of jobs in recreational fishing was higher than in commercial fishing in the States.

[1045] Wow.

[1046] I believe I read that somewhere.

[1047] The number of jobs.

[1048] So the number of people are employed.

[1049] Right.

[1050] So like selling fishing rods and lures and guiding people on boats.

[1051] And charters and things like that, exactly.

[1052] Yeah, that kind of makes sense.

[1053] So the commercial, also, I mean, the biggest problem with commercial fishing is I went to, actually went to Taiwan last year, and it was helping them finding government and giving them a proposal on how they can change their law to make the fisheries better.

[1054] And they were explained it to me, like, they have those ships and they hired people from the Philippines or from Indonesia, and then they put them on a ship for six months.

[1055] They take their passport, and they're getting paid like.

[1056] nothing literally nothing and all they do all day long is they catch tuna they catch tuna they catch tuna they catch tuna for like 14 hours a day and then that's it and then they bring the tuna back and they sell it you know the problem is people are fucking up so many different parts of the world so fast it's hard to like go well we gotta really put it all aside and concentrate on the fish no for sure it's again it's a lot of money there's a lot of people depending on it but then at some point we got out to realize hey there's no fish so it's we're more people so we're going to have to turn herself on on them and then but people are not going to change their ways to do anything unless they're being told sorry there's no more fish how long have you been doing this now full time yeah about three years and have you noticed a difference in three years uh depends where but yeah some places definitely there's some when i've been traveling there's some places what i've been and the third time that I, third time or four times I was coming back.

[1057] I could see there was even less and less fish.

[1058] Really?

[1059] The Mediterranean is a disaster.

[1060] Mediterranean is?

[1061] There's literally nothing left in that place.

[1062] What would happen?

[1063] And it's, again, that's another example where it's just been over fish for so many years.

[1064] They don't allow spear fishing there, but a commercial fishing boat is allowed to catch as many tuna as they want.

[1065] For tuna, I mean, the spe fishing is illegal.

[1066] Yeah, Anthony Dordane did something in Italy.

[1067] And they, There were so little fish that they were actually throwing frozen fish into the water, like frozen octopus into the water, and they wanted him to pretend to catch these frozen octopus.

[1068] Instead, he made a mockery of it and, like, showed the guy throwing the frozen fish into the water, frozen octopus into the water.

[1069] I'm not surprised.

[1070] If you catch a fish in Greece, you can sell it for like 100 euros.

[1071] Because there's no fish?

[1072] There's no fish.

[1073] There's definitely no fish.

[1074] But people won't change their ways until you tell them, I'm sorry, you can't have your candy anymore.

[1075] Then I'm going to be like, I guess I have to make an effort now.

[1076] Fuck.

[1077] So what would be the solution?

[1078] I mean, can they, is there a way to commercially raise fish that's viable?

[1079] It's.

[1080] Like they do with the cattle industry?

[1081] Well, I'm actually going to the Marshall Islands in October and I'm going to visit this.

[1082] The Marshall Islands?

[1083] The Marshall Islands.

[1084] Where are those?

[1085] That's a middle of the Pacific.

[1086] Another one.

[1087] You go to nowhere.

[1088] That's my thing.

[1089] Is it near Hawaii?

[1090] No, it's near Australia, I think, or something like that.

[1091] No, it's near Papua New Guinea.

[1092] Oh, wow.

[1093] Very careful.

[1094] They eat people over there.

[1095] Oh, that's fine.

[1096] I don't have much meat, too.

[1097] Oh.

[1098] I'm like the appetizer.

[1099] But they have, so I'm going to visit a farm that is sustainable and everything.

[1100] If there's any New Guinea people listening to them, I'm joking around, don't get mad.

[1101] People get so outraged.

[1102] This motherfucker's calling us all cannibals.

[1103] Is that where it is?

[1104] Show me where it is again?

[1105] Right there where your arrow is?

[1106] Oh my God.

[1107] That is ridiculous.

[1108] Don't go there.

[1109] So they told me that I have a sustainable farm, so I'm going to visit it.

[1110] I'm going to see.

[1111] You just have to be really careful because, again, if they leaks into the ocean, and then it contaminates out of fish, and then if some of them escape, it creates problems.

[1112] What kind of problems does it create?

[1113] You can have a captive one, so basically it's going to infect the other fish.

[1114] Infect them with diseases?

[1115] Yeah, with diseases.

[1116] What kind of diseases do they get when they're in captivity?

[1117] They can get all sorts of stuff.

[1118] So it's a lot like captive animals, like avian flu and swine flu.

[1119] Yeah, pretty much.

[1120] But in, um, fucking great.

[1121] Some really bad, there were some stories about some really bad fish farms that are feeding them with pig stuff.

[1122] And like, it's just, again, it's all about being, being responsible.

[1123] We did a podcast recently about CWD.

[1124] C2.

[1125] Quantic wasting disease is a disease that's spreading amongst deer in this country.

[1126] and they think a lot of it is coming, or some of it at least, is coming from deer farms.

[1127] They have these deer farms, and all these animals are eating off the same food, then they escape, and then they spread it, and then there's an incubation period.

[1128] I mean, it exists in the wild, and it exists in deer farms, so it's very complicated, but so they have a similar issue with fish then.

[1129] Yeah, they do, actually, and it's pretty bad, but it's...

[1130] What kind of diseases do they get?

[1131] I wouldn't know what type of disease they have.

[1132] It's just, I'm not really familiar with fish diseases, to be honest, but...

[1133] What is that term?

[1134] There's definitely, like, some fish have cancer.

[1135] It's bad.

[1136] What is the term zoonotic?

[1137] Is that the term when it leaves and makes the jump to humans, the diseases?

[1138] Are there any...

[1139] Yeah, that's what, like, avian flu is and swine flu.

[1140] Oh, okay, yeah.

[1141] It's a disease that makes it jump to humans.

[1142] Is there any diseases in fish that make the jump to humans?

[1143] Apart from parasites, it's the only thing you can take up.

[1144] that human can actually get.

[1145] And parasites are pretty rare with ocean fish, right?

[1146] It's more common with freshwater fish.

[1147] There's worms.

[1148] We can see worms sometimes, but you just discard them, and then it's fine.

[1149] They're not going to kill you.

[1150] They're just going to taste a little funky.

[1151] Ew.

[1152] Do you have eaten worms that came out of fish?

[1153] For sure, right?

[1154] Probably.

[1155] I just probably don't know it.

[1156] When I cut the fish raw, I cut it pretty small, so I make sure that it is nothing in it.

[1157] So you look to see the worms?

[1158] Yeah, you can see them.

[1159] How much worm can you get in your body to where it starts growing?

[1160] growing.

[1161] Take a little slice?

[1162] I'm not going to try.

[1163] Do you know?

[1164] But no. When you cook the fish, they're all dead.

[1165] So if you freeze it, that's why a lot of people freeze their sushi before eating it.

[1166] Yeah, they try to do that with pigs and a lot of animals in this country, too.

[1167] But there's two types of trichinosis, apparently.

[1168] Maybe there's more, but there's two very specific kinds of trichinosis.

[1169] One that if you freeze, it'll die.

[1170] And this is trichinosis that comes from an animal that's from the southwest of the United States.

[1171] Okay.

[1172] But then there's trichinosis that comes from animals that's in the northern territories, and Canada in particular, like bears, Alaska, and that stuff, you could freeze it.

[1173] It doesn't matter.

[1174] It doesn't even kill it when you freeze it.

[1175] Yeah, that.

[1176] So you have to cook it.

[1177] It has to be cooked to, I think it's 160 degrees.

[1178] Some 147, 160 is a recommended temperature.

[1179] You have to kill those little fuckers.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] Otherwise, you just, it just gets into your.

[1182] your muscle tissue.

[1183] I have some friends that caught it.

[1184] It's horrific.

[1185] Oh, that's bad.

[1186] Yeah, like, your whole body's, like, in pain because it's literally they're burrowing their way into your body.

[1187] I don't think you have something that bad in fish.

[1188] I mean, maybe that's why I'm skinny, who knows?

[1189] He's got a tapeworm.

[1190] Maybe that's why.

[1191] Well, maybe you just eating fish all the time.

[1192] It's probably pretty lean stuff.

[1193] Yeah, true.

[1194] But also, free diving, you burn, when you go spivishing, you burn about between 1 ,000 and, I think, 1 ,300 calories an hour.

[1195] What?

[1196] So if you wouldn't lose weight, ghost babysitting.

[1197] Really?

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] 1 ,300 calories an hour.

[1200] That's incredible.

[1201] It's very, very intense.

[1202] Wow, that's amazing.

[1203] That's a, you would think a lot of people who listen to this, like, oh, I could eat so much food.

[1204] I'll just go free diving.

[1205] But you also don't eat food, which is.

[1206] What's that, Jamie?

[1207] The Marshall Islands.

[1208] Oh, Jesus.

[1209] That's where they blew that thing up.

[1210] We've shown that a million times.

[1211] That's the crazy nuclear bomb testing area.

[1212] That is the.

[1213] the nuttyest shit ever.

[1214] You see that as miles high water spraying up into the sky.

[1215] So maybe the fish are going to have like three eyes or something?

[1216] Oh, yeah, you're going to have fish that can read your mind.

[1217] They're going to know you're coming.

[1218] What are you spear fishing for in the Marshall Islands?

[1219] I'm not going to be spear fishing.

[1220] I'm just going to be visiting a farm and see what they're doing.

[1221] So it's kind of good.

[1222] I have a lot of people asking me for alternatives and what he can do, what it can eat.

[1223] And so this is one of the possible.

[1224] alternatives that they have these farms exactly so i'm going to check it out and make sure that it's it's all legit and then is it possible that they could reintroduce fish into the ocean like stock the ocean because that's what they do some lakes like uh i used to go fishing at this lake in boston and um they restock it every year with rainbow trout yeah that's actually my my lake when my parents have a country house it do that too when it works the only problem i would see with that for like an ocean fish would be, I'm thinking because they never had predators in captivity, that that may be, it might have a survival problem after that.

[1225] But maybe they can learn it.

[1226] I don't know.

[1227] Yeah, the strong and smart survive.

[1228] I mean, it's still better that if, you know, if there's, if they put 10 ,000, if 2 ,000 survive, it's still good.

[1229] It's better than nothing.

[1230] Yeah.

[1231] Yeah, I wonder what do it have to do.

[1232] I wonder if it's even possible to restock something as big as the ocean.

[1233] It's just being fished so quickly, and that's the biggest problem.

[1234] But there are solutions.

[1235] It's just people have to be willing to talk about it.

[1236] And right now, that's the biggest problem.

[1237] With the same situation as with the Wall Street Journal, when people are trying to talk about food searching and mentioning alternatives, people are like, no, no, no, no, no. They're like, we don't eat fish, we don't eat seafood.

[1238] No, no, no, no, that's not true.

[1239] Don't you think that it's the optics, though?

[1240] I mean, what they're concerned with is not, it's not that it's rational.

[1241] It's that they don't want any controversy.

[1242] That's what it is.

[1243] So a person like you, although what you're doing is if you explain it and you look at it objectively, it's very rational.

[1244] But they're not trying to be rational.

[1245] What they're trying to do is avoid any conflict.

[1246] Like, there is a guy who is a NASCAR driver, okay?

[1247] And he lost a sponsor recently for some racist stuff that his father said 30 years ago.

[1248] This is how crazy people are getting.

[1249] 30 years ago, his father used a racial slur.

[1250] And because of that, this guy who wasn't even alive when this happened, or maybe he was alive.

[1251] Maybe he was seven years old or some shit.

[1252] He lost a sponsor.

[1253] I mean, it's one of the companies are such cowards.

[1254] They're so terrified because of social media because people are so willing to protest.

[1255] And there's a bunch of fuckheads out there that just get a thrill off of getting people fired and of getting things canceled and of like exercising action and seeing a result.

[1256] All they're doing is pushing buttons.

[1257] It's not that they've thought about this and like, hey, is this guy really responsible?

[1258] Should we really blame him for something his father did?

[1259] 30 years ago.

[1260] I mean, that's ridiculous.

[1261] What we should do is nothing.

[1262] Just let it go.

[1263] I mean, unless this guy is like some sort of white supremacist or some racist himself and he's not, we should just do nothing.

[1264] But that's not, that doesn't, that's not fun.

[1265] What's fun is getting a rush, a power trip out of action.

[1266] Like clearly there should, like if you find a real racist, something, someone who's doing something actively to harm other people simply based on their, ethnic origin or the color of their skin yeah that's terrible you should talk out about that that should be eliminated from our society real real racism but that's not what this is what this is is people deciding that they're they're going to take action and then NASCAR being a pussy about it or this company being a pussy about it and that's the same thing that's happening with you it's not this is not a rational decision like they should look at it and go wow what an interesting way to get your fish like how many these people that made this decision actually eat fish, I would bet it's most.

[1267] I would bet it's most.

[1268] People should understand also that by refraining people to talk about it, you being part of the problem.

[1269] Yes.

[1270] This is why things have been so bad for so many years, because nobody wants to talk about it.

[1271] They all want to eat it.

[1272] They just don't want to know where it's from.

[1273] But no one's looking at things long term.

[1274] All they're looking at is potential short -term income loss.

[1275] So with the Wall Street Journal or the in post or whatever, whatever paper it is, what they're worried about, they're worried that someone's going to come along and say, the Wall Street Journal support, is it Wall Street Journal?

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] The Wall Street Journal supports a mass extinction of fish.

[1278] They can just reframe it in some outrageous, unrealistic, non -accurate way.

[1279] Well, people need to chill out to you.

[1280] I think, like, I understand what it comes from in a sense that, especially, like, the millennials or whatever.

[1281] We're all born when, you know, we had a bunch of tours of China.

[1282] Nobody used a shit about that.

[1283] We ate whatever we want.

[1284] Nobody used a shit about that.

[1285] We had pricking processed food.

[1286] Nobody cared about it.

[1287] We had hot dogs and nobody was saying anything about it.

[1288] And then we all reached like our mid -20s and all of a sudden we're being told about everybody.

[1289] Oh, by the way, you know everything like all you barbies where they're very bad for the environment.

[1290] Oh, you know what?

[1291] By the way, like the hot dogs you've been eating, they're very bad for in the environment.

[1292] And you're like, we're living in an era when we're being told that everything we're doing is.

[1293] wrong and it's hard it's hard for somebody that lives in the middle of city that doesn't know anything else to be like oh yeah you know what's the true i'm going to stop eating this that i've been eating for the last 20 years just because somebody told me so somebody had a very funny tweet about Starbucks about else you know they do you know California eliminated straws yeah and Starbucks had this whole thing about you know how big sign about how you know we're doing our part for the environment we're eliminating straws and and then on the you know on the tweet it said um okay so you're just putting plastic lids on your coffee cups yeah and what happens with them and then Starbucks it said oh dot dot dot like you're not fucking you're not fixing shit just because you get rid of this draws you got plastic lids everywhere you go those goddamn Starbucks lids are littered on the street they're everywhere but this is actually this is a perfect example because it shows exactly this it shows a little bit of action They people are like, they have either a very small action and makes them feel better, or they like to point out the fingers of somebody else.

[1294] Yes, you with your straw.

[1295] Exactly.

[1296] You're evil if you have a straw now.

[1297] It's just the way people are dealing with that.

[1298] They've being told that everything they've been doing since their kids are bad, so now they're like, no, but look at her.

[1299] She's peer fishing.

[1300] She's evil.

[1301] You're like, what?

[1302] It's just, I think it's that.

[1303] I think it's the way that people are.

[1304] handling the fact that they're being told that everything is wrong, that they're trying to be like, no, I made my effort.

[1305] I made a Facebook post this morning saying that I wasn't getting straw, so I'm great.

[1306] California seeks to be the first state to limit plastic straws.

[1307] Like all restaurants.

[1308] Wow.

[1309] It hasn't passed, but it's been proposed.

[1310] Governor Jerry Brown.

[1311] I just, how can it be so difficult to be like, look, plastic is a problem, you use something else you know one thing that they um i don't know where maybe i saw this for your page did i find this on your page that there's a new invention that they use for water runoff before it goes into the ocean is this giant net that catches all this plastic particles was that on your instagram page no that it's really interesting someone has invented this cover that's like uh it's it's like a filter that as the water's going through it catches all the stuff that would ordinarily be washed out to sea.

[1312] And so it basically, over these storm drainage pipes, these enormous pipes, is this huge net.

[1313] So the water can still go through it, but it just shows you like this insane amount of debris and garbage that would have ordinarily just been washed out to sea and they're catching it in these nets.

[1314] It's not everything, but it's a start.

[1315] I mean, it's not going to make up for the fucking cruise ship that's dumping things just right off shore.

[1316] It's crazy.

[1317] I did not know that that was the case.

[1318] Yeah, it's legal, too, and that's the worst part of it.

[1319] But you can't spearfish.

[1320] But you can't spearfish.

[1321] Because I'm the bad guy.

[1322] So what you want to do is you want to spearfish and you want to raise awareness and you want to continue to live this life.

[1323] So what you're trying to do along the way is trying to figure out how to make a living while you're doing it and where to live.

[1324] I do.

[1325] I'm going to want to write a book.

[1326] point and I want to ask you how old you are I'm 31 so this is an age where people are like oh Jesus you're in your 30s you should have your shit together by now that's a lot of people think you know like it's you're in that area where like you should you have you should have your career in order you should think about settling down having a family you should start your 401k and you should have all this stuff in line and you're out there fishing stabbing fish no I don't mind that I don't think my age is an issue.

[1327] It's, I just...

[1328] No, I don't think it's an issue either.

[1329] I'm just saying that in the path from graduating high school to going to college to becoming a person that's 31 years old, I mean, a lot of people compare themselves in a very sort of foolish way.

[1330] They compare themselves with other people, like, how much stuff have these people accumulated?

[1331] How much have I?

[1332] But it was, for me, it was a crucial step of my life to be able to take a step back.

[1333] I want to take a step back of all of that and be like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[1334] Like, I've been telling the same thing since I'm born about what I should want, about what I should do, about, you know, about what was expected of me. Exactly, you know, it's like when I was, when I was seven years old, I look at my mom and I said, you know, mom, when I grow up, I rather have, like, a job that I don't like when I make a shit ton of money, not a job I love when I make nothing.

[1335] I was seven.

[1336] I told that to my mother.

[1337] And my mom was like, what did I do wrong here?

[1338] Well, that's a rational thought with kids.

[1339] And then when I quit my job, then my mom is doing like, why are you doing that?

[1340] You have no security in life and blah, blah, blah.

[1341] And I'm like, well, sorry, it's good.

[1342] I need a step back.

[1343] I need to look at everything around me. I need to look at society.

[1344] I need to look at how things work.

[1345] And I want to make sure that when I'm in it, it's because I actually, I know what I want.

[1346] Yeah.

[1347] And I don't like being told to do.

[1348] Right.

[1349] So that's kind of what I'm doing.

[1350] I figure out my own thing and figuring out what's important for me and what my real values are.

[1351] And I don't think you can discover the person you really are by staying in your 9 to 5, by not knowing anything and being unhappy and not being able to go outside of your comfort zone.

[1352] Right.

[1353] Comfort zone is the big word, right?

[1354] Because it's comforting that you get that check every week.

[1355] It is.

[1356] But ultimately it's numbing.

[1357] You have kids, you have this and that.

[1358] It's people that tell me like, oh, you're so courageous to have done that or, oh, I envy your life so much.

[1359] I'm like, well, when I first quit my job, I live in my freaking car for a while because I didn't have a place to stay and neither no money to sustain myself.

[1360] Did you really live in your car?

[1361] Yeah, I did for a while.

[1362] How long?

[1363] I don't like about like a month, something like that.

[1364] And it was like sporadic in my car.

[1365] Did you just smell or did you shower somewhere?

[1366] No, no, I had friends, so I was like sharring.

[1367] There's also beaches, showers in the beach.

[1368] when that was happening how old were you at the time 23 years ago so 20 so you're 28 and you're like were you like what the fuck am I doing my life I'm living in my car yeah but I have a lawyer yeah but I felt I felt free and I never regret it in my life and that's what you are courageous if that's the case because a lot of people would panic me included it's I guess you courageous in a way regarding like the fact that you're sleeping in a car Yeah.

[1369] But if you're unhappy with your life, why keep going with it?

[1370] Well, that's what you're saying is logical, right?

[1371] But logic is not how most people live their lives.

[1372] What you're saying is like you're, it's romantic.

[1373] Like you're saying, I want to live my life with passion and I want to follow my interests.

[1374] And I don't mind living in my car and showering at the beach.

[1375] I don't mind.

[1376] I'm fine with that.

[1377] Most people are not fine with that.

[1378] Most people would be insecure.

[1379] and they would be scared of the future and they would want some sort of stability.

[1380] And that's what's courageous about your decision because one of the things that, like, I was talking with people about you before I did this podcast and the question from everybody is like, how does she make a living?

[1381] I'm like, oh, no, I'm not sure.

[1382] I'm like, I guess she's this professional spearfisher person.

[1383] I go, but I don't know how you make money doing that.

[1384] I'm like, maybe you guide people, take people out.

[1385] Sometimes, every rarely.

[1386] I'm a free diving instructor, too, so I don't, I only give private lessons.

[1387] I'm a free diving instructor, too.

[1388] So I don't really, I give lessons once in a while.

[1389] I have contracts here and there.

[1390] I'm not, right now I reached a point where I'm not, I'm not rich, but I'm not starving either.

[1391] Right.

[1392] And I'm kind of, I'm happy about it.

[1393] And I actually do believe it's going to lead to something.

[1394] What would lead to?

[1395] To something that, to a job that I think is going to be, you know, I'm starting giving conferences around, and I think that's something that really, really interests me. Conferences?

[1396] Yeah.

[1397] Like this woman's empowerment thing that you were going to talk.

[1398] Yeah, pretty much.

[1399] Just without all the shit going behind it.

[1400] Well, that was just one.

[1401] And I'm sure, look, people love a story about someone who's following their passion because there's so many people out there that really desperately want to do that.

[1402] They just don't know how to do it or how to get the courage to do it.

[1403] Or they get stuck with a mortgage or maybe they have a family and responsibilities.

[1404] or maybe they have loved ones that are taken care of and they can't.

[1405] And so when they hear about someone who's going for it, either they're jealous of you and they hate on it and they say that's stupid, that girl's a fool, blah, blah, blah.

[1406] Or they go, God, I wish I could do that.

[1407] Those are the two, depending upon the mindset of the person that's watching you, that's going to be their reaction.

[1408] I completely agree.

[1409] Well, I have a TV show coming on, have my cookbook coming on.

[1410] What's the TV show?

[1411] I have, it's a TV, it's going to be in French, but it's about, I'm going to be traveling around the world and fishing with...

[1412] I'm not even sure I'm not to talk about that.

[1413] Whoops.

[1414] Whoops.

[1415] It's a TV store.

[1416] It's going to be fun.

[1417] And I'm starting with...

[1418] My sister just graduated from fashion design in London.

[1419] And we're just starting a bathing suit company with recycled fabric.

[1420] Oh, okay.

[1421] So we're doing...

[1422] I have a few things in my pipeline.

[1423] I don't like being bored.

[1424] I know it seems like it.

[1425] Like, oh, like I'm free -spirited and I travel around, but I'm still a very ambitious person and I do want to achieve things are going to make me proud.

[1426] It's not always, you know, it's not, I didn't quit everything to, to become a hippie and live on the beach and wear an issue the rest of my life.

[1427] No, I just, I quit my job to live and build my life in my career the way I wanted to and in a way that was making me proud and happy.

[1428] So this is pretty much what I'm doing right now.

[1429] It's very admirable.

[1430] It really is.

[1431] It's, and it is really brave because you're not going to get a whole lot of reinforce went from other people.

[1432] I'm sure you probably didn't.

[1433] Probably weren't a lot of people that were telling you, you go for it, girl.

[1434] Go sleep at the beach.

[1435] Yeah, stay in your car.

[1436] Yeah, you don't have a shower?

[1437] Who needs a shower?

[1438] You don't know where your food's coming from?

[1439] Who cares?

[1440] But there's also a group of people are like, oh yes, it's a good idea.

[1441] And then the second you turn around, they're like, am I get, is he so stupid?

[1442] Well, that's just humans.

[1443] People love to talk shit.

[1444] But it's, even in my hardest moments when I was broke or anything like that, I never regretted it.

[1445] Not one second.

[1446] I told myself, I made a wrong decision.

[1447] So I guess it's a good sign.

[1448] Well, the good thing is you were doing something that's so soul -sucking.

[1449] Yep.

[1450] That anything seems like it's worth it.

[1451] I really found myself in situations when I was like, ooh, I'm actually an asshole.

[1452] I was like, okay, I'm kind of have to work on that.

[1453] As a lawyer?

[1454] No, even like in this life, you know, especially when, you know, filming a documentary in Africa or in different places.

[1455] Well, you know you have no food And you're like, I have a table with people And we're sharing like a can of tuna Between four people and you're like Yeah, let's share.

[1456] I'm happy to share And you're just like, I just want to like push your ground And run away with a can of tuna.

[1457] Right.

[1458] It's you're discovering yourself.

[1459] And sometimes you don't always like what you see.

[1460] But it's good.

[1461] It's what it's for, you know.

[1462] You look at yourself and then I would never discover the type of person that I am when I'm starving.

[1463] on a nine -to -five job.

[1464] Unless you're starving, right.

[1465] How many people ever are, right?

[1466] Not definitely not that many.

[1467] And again, that was the thing that shocked me the most.

[1468] And I think it's also what touches people the most about Africa has been one of them.

[1469] It's people are super close with each other.

[1470] People are really nice and you're really focusing on the nice things.

[1471] And it's you're like, wow, I want that.

[1472] I want to keep doing that.

[1473] But then, you know, you spend your month there and then you spend a month in New York City and you forget everything.

[1474] It takes literally a week to forget everything.

[1475] You know, another hard thing would be if you tried to relay your experiences on a television show, it would be edited down to, even if it's an one -hour show, with commercials, it becomes 44 minutes.

[1476] And you're just not going to be able to get all that.

[1477] And it would be very hard.

[1478] I told them that I was not interested into doing anything scripted, and I told them, if I want to do a TV show, if I'm puking, I want it there.

[1479] If I'm crying, I want it there.

[1480] If I hate it, if I'm crying for my mommy to come pick me up, I want it there too.

[1481] Because I think it's, that's what's the beauty part about those travels.

[1482] And that's what needs to be shown, I think.

[1483] That would be a real reality show.

[1484] But the reality of reality shows is most of them are at least planned out if they're not scripted totally.

[1485] And you can tell.

[1486] You know, you can tell.

[1487] And people like, well, we got to fix this gas pump.

[1488] We're not going to get this boat started.

[1489] You know, they're like such bad actors.

[1490] You see it in their face.

[1491] You could smell it when they're acting.

[1492] It's just like, well.

[1493] But that's what it was the beauty of the Anthony Brunei show, actually.

[1494] It was all about.

[1495] But he wouldn't do that.

[1496] I mean, that's why when they threw the frozen octopus in the water, he was mocking them.

[1497] Exactly.

[1498] But it's, I mean, I understand why a lot of people see that in me. I'm a girl and sometimes a little bit girly and things like that.

[1499] and people are like, oh, like, all she wants is to be in a TV show and do this and do that.

[1500] And it's, I get why people would think that, but it's, it's, I mean, if you pass five minutes women, you're going to realize that.

[1501] But I also think what you're trying to do is relay your passion for something.

[1502] And when people are really, like, I've struggled with that with bow hunting because I've done some things on camera.

[1503] I did some, a film last year for Under Armour where we went elk hunting.

[1504] but part of me is like not everything should just be broadcast not everything should be filmed sometimes life should just be experienced especially for someone like me who's I think I'm overexposed in the first place I would be better off doing less things publicly so that's one that I've decided to do less of publicly but part of me wants people to know that there's a satisfaction to like bow hunting in particular is very very difficult It's very hard to do.

[1505] It takes intense practice.

[1506] It takes a lot of physical exercise.

[1507] You have to be able to run up the hills.

[1508] You have to have endurance because you're climbing through the mountains all the time.

[1509] And then it's hard to do.

[1510] It's hard to find the animals.

[1511] It's hard to get close enough to shoot one.

[1512] You have to be able to execute when the moment is there.

[1513] It's very difficult to shoot an animal with a bow and arrow, especially long distance.

[1514] I mean, you have to have an extreme amount of proficiency before you can ever pull that off under high -stress situations.

[1515] So part of me wants to relay that there's a misconception about what people see.

[1516] When they think of hunting, they think of cruelty, and they think of someone who doesn't respect nature, and they think of this, they think of this abusive relationship that humans have with animals, instead of the way I look at it, which is you have this deep understanding of the food chain, and this food chain exists, whether you're there or not.

[1517] The food chain exists with bears and wolves and mountain lines and deer and elk and all these animals are struggling for survival.

[1518] And all you do is interject, you step in for a little bit and you take your part in the food chain.

[1519] And in turn, you also give out all this money that goes to conservation.

[1520] This money that goes to conservation ensures that this opportunity to be there for other hunters in the future it ensures that the populations of these animals will stay healthy, and it ensures that they'll be monitored by the proper fish and game and wildlife biologists and all these different people that are going to ensure that these animals are, that this environment and this experience is preserved, and the wild habitat that these animals enjoy will be preserved.

[1521] And for people, it's very conflicting, you know, for people, it seems almost hypocritical that you could say that you love these animals, but you also want to eat.

[1522] them.

[1523] Yeah, but that's, that's, no, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's the hypocrite thing to do is to say that you love them and then buy them for groceries or not caring how they got there.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] That's when you're being ridiculous.

[1526] What's, the problem is that's been available for so long, we're used to it.

[1527] Like, if there was just a machine that you could go to where you could just get your money from this machine.

[1528] You talk to somebody about hunting and then they put their finger in ears and they're like, oh, I don't want to hear anything.

[1529] And you're like, right.

[1530] What?

[1531] Well, it's the same way.

[1532] But then they go to McDonald's.

[1533] The Wall Street Journal approached you with fishing, spear fishing.

[1534] It's the same thing.

[1535] It's not a well -thought -out rational argument.

[1536] They're worried about outrage.

[1537] And in this day and age, it's very easy.

[1538] Like, I had a picture I put up the other day of a target that I have in my backyard with some arrows in it, and all these vegans are attacking me for shooting a fucking target, you know?

[1539] That's crazy.

[1540] I mean, they know I'm practicing, and I'm getting ready to shoot animals.

[1541] but all they're doing is there's no animal there it's a fucking rubber it's a rubber elk and they're getting angry because that's what people like to do they like to express outrage and they talk too much there's too much expression take it from someone who does talk too much me I talk way too much but they're not considering what they're doing they're just doing it and you're not you don't change people's opinion by being an asshole online you just get everyone to realize you're an asshole.

[1542] I got a bunch of vegan following me now because I took the time to respond to their concerns and now they actually got it.

[1543] But how can we make improvements when you have in one side an angry bunch of people that all they want to do is scream scandal or everything they see?

[1544] And then on the other side, the people that matter is that have a strong voice are scared to talk about everything because they're scared of that first group.

[1545] And then by doing that, we're doing nothing.

[1546] I've been toning down a lot in my Instagram I stopped posting fish with like blood on it with things like that because people just don't want to see it and I don't have a choice to do that because again But what percentage don't want to see it this is the thing I mean if someone eats fish if they like sushi and they get upset when they go to your Instagram page and you've got a spear through a tuna you're almost you're educating them in a lot of ways and the people that do get upset even though you hear their voices and their voices it's a loud minority i mean you have how many followers do you have on instagram uh 84 000 think think what 84 000 people looks like in a room that's a giant number of people now imagine 50 those people are screaming assholes that's what you have true it's a small percentage the the number of people that see it and they're rational adults They know that in order to kill a tuna, there's going to be some blood.

[1547] There's no bloodless method for killing a tuna.

[1548] It doesn't exist.

[1549] I mean, but also the weird thing is that in a way, I understand the outrage on a certain level.

[1550] I went deer hunting for the first time in New Caledonia in last October.

[1551] And it was not with bows or it was with actual gun.

[1552] And when I shot the deer, I saw I crying.

[1553] I was like oh my god I kill Bambi and it was so bad and I get there and it was like oh I was all cute and everything I'm like okay and then it was dead and then I carried it on my back and we walked back to the house and then they started cutting it in pieces and it started looking like meat and my guilt went completely away completely away and I was like wow how much even a hypocrite can I be that I'm crying because I kill freaking Bambi like actual physical tears going down my face and then a second I see a piece of meat I just got excited.

[1554] I'm like we're going to make burgers all of a sudden and it's fish is a little bit easier because a lot of us have seen whole fish has kids.

[1555] You know you put a whole fish in the table so that the gore is a little bit less there so it's more about the blood than seeing the actual fish dead but I get it how I know it's bad but I felt really really like an hypocrite after that like I know I know that I mean I felt that I felt in a weird way I felt like a weird sense of loss the first time I shot a deer um but it went away when I started eating it too and I never killed an animal before that but I had killed fish I've been fishing since I was a little kid I love fishing but I didn't feel a connection with fish the same way I felt a connection with a mammal it's because it's closer to us you know it's it's our Closer to our species.

[1556] Fish is like an alien thing that lives in an alien world that breathes water.

[1557] But again, the one that has like the human -like eyes, then I tend to feel, the tuna is one of them.

[1558] I tend to feel, it's true.

[1559] I have a picture.

[1560] I have to show it to you.

[1561] Of tuna eyes.

[1562] It's, you're like, it looks, it looks really like, you can see expression in their eyes.

[1563] And that's when, that's the second way people are starting to feel like, oh, I remember her.

[1564] Fear?

[1565] I think it's curiosity, but I guess you can say fear.

[1566] How about it's just freaking out because it knows you're going to eat it.

[1567] It's anthropomorphization, right?

[1568] We look at animals so we attach human characteristics.

[1569] See, that's kind of human -like.

[1570] Oh, that fish is an asshole.

[1571] I can tell looking in his eyes.

[1572] What is that?

[1573] That's a duck -to -tutator.

[1574] Fuck, those teeth are amazing.

[1575] Yeah, that's a pretty weird fish.

[1576] Look at that, Jamie.

[1577] Look at that, folks.

[1578] so it's you know you can see like it's like a little bit white on the outside and then it's just color and then it's just freaking out because it's looking out at the air for the first time it's like holy shit there's another world up here claude guys he's not alive anymore well for a second he was right there he's alive or she's alive yeah it's probably freaking out it's outside the water like what in the fuck is this imagine if it was alive it would have john my ass my hands would have sounded of his guilt if it could come comes back alive.

[1579] This is a very, very strong fish.

[1580] Oh, I'd imagine.

[1581] Look at it.

[1582] It looks like a tank.

[1583] But, I mean, imagine being a fish.

[1584] You live your whole life in the water.

[1585] And then all of a sudden, someone pulls you out of it.

[1586] And you look into the air, and you're like, what is this?

[1587] And why can I breathe?

[1588] Well, at least I did it very quickly.

[1589] So that's the good thing about it.

[1590] Yeah, but it's got to be a freak out.

[1591] And plus, their brains are like the size of your fingernail, right?

[1592] But a knife is brain pretty quickly.

[1593] What's that?

[1594] I knife his brain pretty quickly.

[1595] Is that what you do?

[1596] right in the dome So you kill them and if you don't you shoot them and if you don't kill them on a spot You shoot them With a gun?

[1597] Really?

[1598] Yeah You shoot tuna with a gun?

[1599] With a spear gun?

[1600] Oh, okay Spear gun.

[1601] Oh, sorry, yeah, speargun I thought you're like Bang gangster lean like sideways style shoot them right in the head I was like what?

[1602] Because I know they club them They club fish And they pull them on boats But I didn't know They shot them But you shoot them On the water that's how you do it with a spear gun you shoot them underwater yes I get that and then when you get it on land what I do is well what's more supervision men do you grab them from the gills that's a little gore sorry graphic content beware and then you grab it by the gills and you knife it and it dies in sensely right if you do if you go line fishing or even commercial fishing what they do is they just throw in the boat and then dies of like asphyxification for hours And so it's We kill it as quick as possible Yeah And do you immediately throw them on ice?

[1603] Yes You know what I didn't know Until you bleed it first You bleed it first Because you know when you eat When you eat sushi or fish And it tastes fishy It's very often the blood That makes that taste So every time we catch a fish You just cut the gills You let it bleed That's the same with meat I was the same with me Yeah They butcher a deer they'll hang it by its legs and cut its throat and gut it and let everything, let the meat bleed out.

[1604] It's dead already, right?

[1605] Yes, it's already dead.

[1606] And fish you have to do it straight away, almost in the water.

[1607] There's not too many sharks around because the blood coagulates very, very, very quickly.

[1608] Right.

[1609] And then it becomes too late.

[1610] And then it changes the flavor of the fish.

[1611] Yeah, because when you fill it it, you cut it on the side, and then when you flip it, it's just like blood everywhere.

[1612] And then it's tainting to me, and then it creates a taste that it's not that good.

[1613] And I think that's one of the reasons why they soak fish in milk.

[1614] It changes the flavor because I think, if I remember this correctly, there's enzymes and milk that destroy the harmful bacteria that causes fish to taste fishy.

[1615] And I think they said that this works also with meat and with chicken, that there's a certain smell to chicken in particular that when you get it, like it might smell a little funky.

[1616] What that is is this certain bacteria.

[1617] that's on the surface of the skin, and then if you soak it in milk, see if you can find that.

[1618] I remember, I read that, like, really recently.

[1619] This is saying it does it, it helps odor -free cooking when you're doing fish or shark even, too.

[1620] I try it with shark, actually.

[1621] Yeah, that's the only time I use the milk.

[1622] You eat sharks?

[1623] No. You monster.

[1624] Well, I was in the, in Monchuk, and I saw a guy who was flooding a shark.

[1625] Montauk?

[1626] Yeah.

[1627] In Long Island?

[1628] Yeah, in Long Island, yeah?

[1629] And then he was filling a, like, a small makeup shark, and I asked him for it peaks and he gave me a slub of like, I was like, okay, thank you.

[1630] I walked over with my big piece of shark.

[1631] And what stroked me was like the smell.

[1632] It smelled like meat.

[1633] You can smell like the ammonia in it.

[1634] It was super strong.

[1635] And then I read online, it said put in milk and lemon juice for 24 hours.

[1636] Did you do that?

[1637] Yes, I did.

[1638] So lemon juice would break it down.

[1639] Was it good?

[1640] Yeah, it's good.

[1641] How do you cook it?

[1642] I just fried in a pan.

[1643] Do you have a special way that you like to cook fish?

[1644] Um, it depends which one, but I really like lightly flowered and just, I see it in olive oil and then I cook it slowly with butter.

[1645] I'm friendship with butter and everything.

[1646] Yeah.

[1647] Have you become like more into cooking because you, you kill your own fish?

[1648] Opposite.

[1649] Really?

[1650] I actually, I mean, opposite in a way that I always love to cook and I got into spear fishing because of cooking.

[1651] So this is what made me fall in love with the sport.

[1652] It's the fact that, or the lifestyle, you can call it.

[1653] It's the fact that catching my own food, I get access to amazing fish and seafood that couldn't be more fresh than that.

[1654] There's a guy named Hank Shaw.

[1655] He's been on my podcast before.

[1656] He's an amazing chef.

[1657] And he has a bunch of wild game recipe books.

[1658] And he got into it because he wanted the freshest ingredients.

[1659] And he wanted wild game ingredients as opposed to.

[1660] buying farm -raised or factory -farmed food.

[1661] He wanted to be able to cook amazing dishes from, like, say, a wild pig that he shot himself.

[1662] So he got into hunting because of that.

[1663] And because of that, he's very valuable for people that are really interested in cooking wild game because he was a legit, excellent chef before he ever got into hunting.

[1664] And then getting into hunting, and now he writes books about it, and he's very, very passionate about it.

[1665] It was a very similar situation to me. Yeah, I literally got into it pretty much just for the food.

[1666] Actually, the first two years when I thought it's pivotishing, I didn't even like spivishing.

[1667] I was in a water scared of my own shadow.

[1668] For two years?

[1669] I didn't like it.

[1670] But you said you liked it the first time.

[1671] I liked it.

[1672] I liked the concept.

[1673] I like what was behind it.

[1674] I fell in love with catching my own food and cooking after and all of that.

[1675] The pipishing itself, it took me a while.

[1676] So you were still nervous about it?

[1677] I was extremely nervous, extremely nervous, like struggling to breathe.

[1678] And every time I was going for a spivishing trip, I couldn't sleep for a month.

[1679] I was literally imagining myself being chewed by a shark and this and that.

[1680] And it was, it was never, my trip's never been about that, even though I was completely petrified of them.

[1681] I've been lost at sea once, which was pretty shitty day, I must say.

[1682] You got lost at sea?

[1683] Yeah.

[1684] What happened?

[1685] About two years ago.

[1686] I was in Mexico and I was with friends.

[1687] Fucking Mexico.

[1688] I was, I was, I was so angry.

[1689] I hated a guy so badly.

[1690] What happened?

[1691] So I jump in the water with a friend of mine.

[1692] I've never spearfish before and we're in the water and your friend never spearfish before.

[1693] No, no, you never do anything.

[1694] He's just like, oh, I want to look around and see what are you doing.

[1695] And then I see the boat.

[1696] How deep is the water?

[1697] It's pretty deep.

[1698] You can't see the bottom.

[1699] And then the bow start going like further and further and further and further and further and further.

[1700] And my friend is like, oh, what's going on?

[1701] I'm like, nothing, nothing.

[1702] And I'm like, okay, we're going to start swimming from the shore right now.

[1703] For the shore.

[1704] Yeah, for the shore.

[1705] So start swimming.

[1706] It was like, It would have been durable.

[1707] It was like, I don't know, maybe a good, like, five miles maybe.

[1708] The fucking shore was five miles away.

[1709] It was far.

[1710] It was like, I would have done it.

[1711] It was definitely been after dark when I reached the shore.

[1712] So I'm trying not to panic.

[1713] My heart is like pounding in my chest.

[1714] I can feel like in my throat.

[1715] It's drifting away.

[1716] Drifting away.

[1717] Way, for no reason.

[1718] And so I'm like.

[1719] Who was in charge of the boat?

[1720] The captain that we hired.

[1721] That was American, actually.

[1722] What do you do?

[1723] Do you do?

[1724] Are drinking and not paying attention to you?

[1725] Oh, wait.

[1726] And then we're stuck, so I told my friend, okay, let's swim.

[1727] We swam for about an hour, an hour and a half.

[1728] Oh, my God.

[1729] And then the boat passes by.

[1730] So I started screaming and yelling, and I had my buoy luckily.

[1731] I was swimming it.

[1732] And they passed next to me. They wave at me. Like, hi.

[1733] I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, help, help, help.

[1734] I go completely nuts.

[1735] And then the boat stops.

[1736] And they pick us up, and I'm trying to explain.

[1737] And my completely nexus in Spanish that we've been stranding it.

[1738] and so I'm like the boat is like right there super far away and they drop us to the boat the guy is asking me for money I'm like I'm lost at sea in my wetsuit the thing I'm carrying for the guy who took you to the boat is asking you for money the guy that would have picked me up was asking me for money for a tip for rescuing me in the middle of the ocean I was like sorry I don't have a tip in my panties right now but thank you for saving my life and then you drop us to the boat and then we get to the boat and the guy's like, oh, I didn't put enough gas in a boat, oops.

[1739] I'm like, what?

[1740] So he ran out of gas?

[1741] He ran out of gas.

[1742] So he would never be able to get you?

[1743] Never.

[1744] Holy shit.

[1745] It was so bad.

[1746] And then we managed to, the Coast Guard came, and they tried to tow the boat, and he started telling the Coast Guard to, like, go screw themselves because, because, I don't want to pay for this, you're all a bunch of assholes.

[1747] I'm like, can you stop talking right now?

[1748] Oh, my God.

[1749] And he literally insulted him so badly.

[1750] The Colsgard left.

[1751] Did they take you with them?

[1752] No. I was still on the boat.

[1753] Oh, my God.

[1754] With my friends that were drinking, I really understanding what was going on.

[1755] They were like, why are you so mad?

[1756] I'm like, just keep drinking.

[1757] So how did you get back?

[1758] And then he managed to find full reception.

[1759] He called the cousin of his wife, his neighbor of this and that to come tow him.

[1760] He arrived like about an hour and a half later.

[1761] I got back to shore, and the guy's like, oh, so what time we're going tomorrow?

[1762] I'm like, screw you.

[1763] I'm leaving.

[1764] I'm never going to see you again.

[1765] What time are we going tomorrow?

[1766] What a fucking delusional asshole.

[1767] It was so bad.

[1768] And then we get to the car.

[1769] I know he almost died and I left you in the ocean and I didn't have any gas.

[1770] And I told the coast car to go, fuck off.

[1771] Exactly.

[1772] I'm like, I'm never seeing you ever again.

[1773] And we get to the car.

[1774] And my friend is like, oh, I give him like $100 and chip.

[1775] Is that enough?

[1776] I'm like, you did what?

[1777] You did what now?

[1778] And, oh, my hair was like.

[1779] And, yeah.

[1780] So it was, yeah.

[1781] Is that the scariest thing that's ever happened to you in the water, besides the tiger shark?

[1782] Yeah, definitely.

[1783] For sure.

[1784] Was there anything else like that?

[1785] That really freaked me out.

[1786] That should freak you out.

[1787] Five miles is a long way to swim, especially if you don't swim distance all the time.

[1788] Did you have any flotation device or anything?

[1789] I had one buoy about that big, and we were two.

[1790] I was more scared because it was about like 4 .35, so the sun was getting down really quickly.

[1791] You wouldn't be able to see what the shore is.

[1792] No. I mean, with the lights, yeah.

[1793] Yes, but it's more, I was more freaked about, like, sharks or things like that when it's dark and it's...

[1794] Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

[1795] So I had a moment in spearfishing that was a little bit freaky.

[1796] I also had a blackout last year.

[1797] Underwater?

[1798] Yeah, that's the biggest danger of spear fishing is actually blacking out.

[1799] It's not sharks, it's not getting bitten by anything.

[1800] Underwater.

[1801] Yeah, so basically what happens is that you dive down and then when you come to the surface, if you stay too long, you're long.

[1802] longs on your way to the surface are going to expand back.

[1803] And then your residual volume of air that you have left and your lungs becomes really, really small.

[1804] So then the percentage becomes too low and then you pass out.

[1805] The what becomes too low?

[1806] The percentage.

[1807] Percentage.

[1808] Of oxygen and your lungs become too small.

[1809] And then you just pass out.

[1810] So basically your brain shuts down to make sure that a lack of oxygen is not creating any permanent damages.

[1811] Oh, what a shitty system.

[1812] It's actually kind of smart.

[1813] Not in that time.

[1814] But then that's what happens with people is that when it come back up, if your buddy is not watching you, and that's why spit fishing is a team sport.

[1815] If they're not watching you, if you pass out in the water, what if they pass out too?

[1816] You're going to sink right down.

[1817] You're both doing it at the same time.

[1818] Well, normally, well, the good system to dive is one person dives at the bottom.

[1819] The person is watching the other one.

[1820] Oh, okay.

[1821] And then it's one up, one down, one up, one down.

[1822] Oh.

[1823] And then you watch each other's back.

[1824] Is that what happened with you?

[1825] Yeah, it was actually very lucky.

[1826] The guy I was diving with me lost his brother a few years before to a blackout.

[1827] So he was just looking at me very, very closely.

[1828] And I was beyond grateful to see his face at his surfers.

[1829] I knew it.

[1830] And I was going to black out.

[1831] How did you know you're going to blackout?

[1832] Because it was, I dove down, and I was aiming at a fish.

[1833] It was pretty deep.

[1834] I was at like 85 feet.

[1835] And I aimed for a fish.

[1836] It was in a pole spirit, too.

[1837] It was in a gun, and I missed it.

[1838] And I started chisning it in the water, and then I missed it.

[1839] in.

[1840] I was like, oh, damn it.

[1841] And then I realized I was like, whoa, I'm actually pretty deep.

[1842] And I've been there for quite a while.

[1843] So I started panicking a little bit.

[1844] So when you panic, you let air even more, which is completely stupid.

[1845] And then I start finning, finning, finning, and then you have, you start doing.

[1846] Finning?

[1847] Finning.

[1848] What is that mean?

[1849] Finning.

[1850] When do you have, you wear fins?

[1851] Mm -hmm.

[1852] Oh, kicking?

[1853] You're trying to get to the surface fast?

[1854] Yeah, exactly.

[1855] And then what happens first before you black.

[1856] blackout is you have a loss of motor control.

[1857] So I could start, I could feel like my body making is like weird movements.

[1858] And then I knew that I was out of oxygen.

[1859] And then I knew that I would probably, most probably, going to pass up.

[1860] Wow.

[1861] And then I came back, I came back.

[1862] And then I saw that my friend I was watching.

[1863] And I was like, oh, I really hope you're really watching.

[1864] I hope you're really watching.

[1865] And he grabbed me and then he woke me up.

[1866] And it was.

[1867] How far were you from the surface and you blacked out?

[1868] I blacked out of the surface.

[1869] Oh, at the surface.

[1870] Yes, which is why it's called a shallow water blackout.

[1871] Because even if you're in deeper water, most of the time happens at the surface.

[1872] So when you got to the surface, what did you have to do to wake you up?

[1873] You have to take the mask off.

[1874] You have to keep the head off the water.

[1875] And then you have to blow in the ice because you have a high concentration of nerves.

[1876] You slap a little bit, not too hard.

[1877] Call the person's name.

[1878] And then you normally wake up pretty fast unless you inhale water.

[1879] What did you, was it like you had a dream?

[1880] Like if you get choked out, like one of the things that happens when you get choked out is you wake up.

[1881] it's like you're dreaming like what whoa i was at a disco i saw some i was riding my skateboard like it's weird i've never been choked out to the point of passing out i imagine similar luckily for me but yeah i missed out in a few a few minutes and i just wasn't sure what was going on and then you're just done for the day when it happens but yeah you have to be done huh it's yeah for the the risk of getting another one the same day is actually very high wow so once you shut off, you get shut off again.

[1882] Yeah, so you have to wait at least the following day to get back in the water.

[1883] Did you jump back in the next day?

[1884] I think I did.

[1885] It was the day after.

[1886] I really want to go back in the water as soon as possible.

[1887] Just to jump back on the horse?

[1888] Yeah.

[1889] So at night I was a little bit stressed out, and my friend gave me some cratum, and it was fun.

[1890] Oh, that stuff.

[1891] That's, I used to think that stuff, that cratum was, I didn't think it was a drug.

[1892] I thought it was a mild stimulant And I heard that people take it for pain But I thought that when they're taking it for pain That they're not getting high They're just taking it and alleviates pain Like Advil or something like that And then I took I think I took eight of them Eight or ten Which is a lot Because I know Chris Bell takes like ten Oh but it's like it's a pill Yeah Okay I took it in powder mixed with like Yeah this is just the powder in pill form And I was high as fuck And I was like, oh, okay, now I know why people are nervous about this stuff.

[1893] I mean, but the weird thing is I was high, but my body was very functional.

[1894] Like, I was high, but I wasn't uncoordinated.

[1895] I wasn't like knocking things over.

[1896] It wasn't that.

[1897] Everything worked normal.

[1898] Like everything was moving as I wanted it to move.

[1899] But I was like, whoa.

[1900] Isn't it an opium derivative?

[1901] It is an opiate.

[1902] It operates on your opiate receptor.

[1903] in some sort of strange way, which is one of the reasons why they're making the argument that it should be illegal, but if any opiate is legal, it should be that one, because it helps people tremendously with addiction, tremendously with pain.

[1904] It doesn't seem to be toxic to the point where it can kill you, or it's very, very rare that it does.

[1905] It seems to operate in a completely different way than any other opiate.

[1906] And like I said, even though I was definitely high, like I was definitely under the influence of something, nobody I don't think anybody knew I mean I could have conversations with people but in the back of my head I was like I'm so high button, like when I was in the hospital, like they said, if you want morphine, just press that button and it'll give you some morphine.

[1907] I just fucking hate that thing.

[1908] Baj, bach, bach, bach, bach, like.

[1909] Because once you get high off the morphine, you're in the hospital, like, this was great.

[1910] Keep pressing the button, and the pain of the knee is.

[1911] It was on, also, my knee was on this motion machine.

[1912] Right after the surgery was done, they put me on this machine that extends and contracts your knee.

[1913] Okay, yeah.

[1914] It brings it back and forth, and that's not.

[1915] comfortable but when you hit that morphine pant bang that's fun but other than that I never really have had opiates I don't think except um they gave me a pain pill prescription I don't remember what kind it was it was Vicodin or percocets or one of those I took it once and I hated it just made me feel really stupid like I just remember thinking my brain's just really dull and I still could feel the pain I just didn't care it was weird you know so those morphine buttons are very dangerous.

[1916] When I got my operation, I keep pressing the button to you because I thought it was very fun.

[1917] Until it told me, well, it's time to go home and I stood up and I fell right on my face.

[1918] I had a complete face plant.

[1919] Really?

[1920] Yeah, like an actual complete face plant.

[1921] Oh, what were you in the hospital for?

[1922] I was a hernia.

[1923] Hernia?

[1924] Yeah.

[1925] And they didn't ask you, like, how many times you pressed that button, Valentine?

[1926] They definitely didn't seem to have thinking under consideration my weight.

[1927] Oh, yeah, right?

[1928] You're tiny.

[1929] Well, why wouldn't they ask you how many times you press the button before they let you get up?

[1930] I don't know, but I remember the woman being like, the nurse being like, like, you had a lot.

[1931] You sure you want more, you sure you that much.

[1932] I was like, yeah, bring it in.

[1933] I'm fine.

[1934] Well, once you're under the influence of it, I imagine you don't really worry about it.

[1935] Nah, you don't.

[1936] Until you pass out.

[1937] Well, listen, Valentine, I'm glad we did this.

[1938] It was really fun.

[1939] I'm glad we had this conversation.

[1940] I think, like I said, I think what you're trying to do with you.

[1941] your life is admirable.

[1942] Life is short.

[1943] I wish more people would chase their dreams and live their lives in a way that they want to, rather than just jump into the fucking rat race.

[1944] I'm definitely, definitely not regretting any second of it, so I'm happy I did that.

[1945] Thank you so much for having me here, and it's crazy how you came up.

[1946] I was asking a friend of mine for a podcast to listen, and he talked to me about yours.

[1947] So I was sitting at a beach in the Bahamas, and my friend of Runas that went to law school with me. It was like, oh, You should listen to the drug and podcast is awesome.

[1948] I look you up on Instagram and I say you were following me. I was like, nice.

[1949] Well, there we go.

[1950] My friend was like, what?

[1951] No shit.

[1952] Well, we did it.

[1953] Thanks for doing this.

[1954] I hope maybe this opens up some doors for you and some things happen.

[1955] Well, if people stop hiding behind their close mind and opinion, let's see.

[1956] I think slowly but surely conversations like this will open doors and change people's perceptions.

[1957] and that's what I hope people got out of this.

[1958] It's good.

[1959] If I have one message today is talk about it, know where your food come from, and don't be scared to see what's going on.

[1960] And live the life the way you want, and that's what you're doing.

[1961] Oh, yeah.

[1962] Get out of your comfort zone because you're never going to discover the person you are by staying in there.

[1963] Boom.

[1964] Bye, everybody.