F*ck Trauma, Get Healthy | Ft. Isaac Smith, MAT, LCSW, NTP

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[17] Welcome back, Isaac.

[18] I'm so excited you're here again.

[19] Thank you for you.

[20] having me. I'm super excited to be here again and super privileged to be a part of something so cool like this.

[21] So why don't you, for those who may have not heard an episode with you before, introduce yourself and talk about what it is that you do?

[22] Okay.

[23] So my name is Isaac Smith and I'm a licensed clinical social worker in private practice.

[24] So I'm a therapist and I work with individuals and families and couples, mostly around the topics of, you know, relationship issues, depression, anxiety, and addiction, and often a lot of trauma.

[25] So first let's chat about the term trauma.

[26] Like, what does that actually mean?

[27] And how does trauma impact us?

[28] And how does processing that affect us as humans?

[29] Yeah.

[30] So I think trauma can be sort of any.

[31] sort of event or a collection events over a lifetime that you have a hard time coping with.

[32] Sometimes people conceptualize these things and like there's big traumas with big T traumas and little T traumas.

[33] You can think of like a traumatic event like being in a really bad car accident or suffering some sort of violence.

[34] But you know in relationships right, trauma can be built over a lifetime.

[35] Let's say you grew up in an abusive family environment or you were married to someone or in a relationship had a partner who was really abusive.

[36] And so there was these ongoing events that were these little traumas that collected over a lifetime that have created this part of you that feels stuck like you can't get through or get past.

[37] And that's a lot of times why people show up in my office is they have this feeling of of being stuck or being trapped because of something that they've been through.

[38] So basically, trauma is anything that you, that really kind of gets in the way of you living your life on your terms.

[39] And those unresolved traumas can really impact us on a host of levels.

[40] So that can affect your sleep, your immune functioning.

[41] It can lead to those clinical levels of depression or anxiety, create, problems with addiction because you're trying to cope through that stuff or it can get in the way of you actually having relationships with other people because maybe your trauma has involved people in your life so you you put up these walls and say nope I'm going to lone wolf this stuff keep myself closed off to protect myself so when we look at like a brain quite literally like trauma changes the landscape of your brain it can make you more hypervigilant um and again this is kind of your brain's way of protecting you.

[42] If you're not hypervigilant, right, you could be at risk for getting traumatized again or being re -hurt.

[43] Does that make sense?

[44] 100%.

[45] Yeah.

[46] So most of the times that hypervigilance comes out of that, that fight or flight response, what we would call that sympathetic nervous system firing, and can create this sense of never feeling safe.

[47] So people feeling like this constant worry of what's going to happen next, or this total distrust of everyone, which makes sense if you've been through some shit.

[48] Guilty.

[49] Yeah.

[50] One of the ways that trauma impacts us, you become fused with a thought or quite often a belief about yourself that ends up getting in the way of you living the life that you might want.

[51] So you can think about this as kind of getting hooked by these things, by these thoughts or these beliefs and these beliefs can be around like a not good enough belief right if you're with an abusive person over time you're going to get this message that you're not good enough and you'll never be able to find someone who um who will love you the way they do because you're already not good enough so if you think about that if you fuse that with that belief that could prevent you from wanting to leave that relationship if you feel fuse with the idea that you're too dumb or not smart that could prevent you from applying for jobs or going after a school or something that you might want to do.

[52] That's how trauma can really get ugly is when we fuse with some of these ideas about what somebody has said to us.

[53] And one of the things that I started researching actually for my second book is about how our subconscious has basically all of this stored memories and all of this like I like to define it as like our brains hard drive, right?

[54] And so then you've got all this like browsing history and all these events that have happened in your life and all of these people you've known and things you've been told about yourself.

[55] And it's kind of like in our underlying subconscious.

[56] And then there's like our foreconscience, which is like, you know, what I'm doing right now, talking or whatever.

[57] This is me trying to like relay this information.

[58] So you can keep me honest.

[59] But basically, sometimes when we've been through emotional abuse or trauma, we have to sort of work on deleting that negativity from our sub drive or our subconscious hard drive.

[60] And that's how I've been able to sort of understand it.

[61] I love that you brought this up.

[62] So there's acceptance and commitment therapy, which is born out of CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy.

[63] Can you explain what that means?

[64] Which one?

[65] CBT.

[66] Cognitive behavioral therapy.

[67] Like for somebody who does no idea?

[68] Yeah.

[69] It's a type of therapeutic treatment that really addresses, um, how your mind tells you certain things, and the power and the influence that sometimes those thoughts can have over our behavior and the way that we feel about ourselves or the world.

[70] Okay, that makes sense.

[71] So in acceptance and commitment therapy, which is born out of cognitive behavioral therapy, they talk a lot about this idea that you're speaking to.

[72] And what they call it is cognitive fusion, okay?

[73] And so when you fuse with a thought or a belief, that can really impact how you do life, okay?

[74] And also like what you believe you're capable of, right?

[75] 100%.

[76] Exactly.

[77] So in the simplest terms, we can think of cognitive fusion as getting hooked by a thought or getting hooked by a belief and that belief or thought becoming a driver for our behavior, right?

[78] And also probably a part of our identity in a way, right?

[79] Absolutely.

[80] The thing is, usually when we get hooked by something, we end up making a move that takes us away from maybe who we want to be.

[81] The thing about those moves that we take away from who we want to be is they're often very effective in the short term.

[82] Okay?

[83] So if I don't want to feel anxious about something, a couple shots of Jim Beam and I'm good to go, right?

[84] Until the gym beam or the buzz wears off.

[85] And you're still having to deal, you're still having to deal with that problem.

[86] So you can think about this even more on a deeper level about what about the ideas that we have about ourselves and what about when we fuse or get hooked by those.

[87] So if I get this idea from my environment growing up or a relationship that I was in about not being good enough, right?

[88] If I get hooked by not being the not good enough story showing up and me buying into that, it might prevent me from actually making healthy relationships, prevent me from taking risks to further benefit myself because that feels safe.

[89] And part of what you're describing is the brain is kind of like a helicopter mom.

[90] Always trying to protect you.

[91] You know, don't touch that.

[92] That's going to hurt you.

[93] That's hot.

[94] You know, be careful.

[95] Your brain is always trying to protect you.

[96] And sometimes that's a really good thing.

[97] But sometimes in the ways that your brain tries to protect you, like to avoid anxiety, right?

[98] You might choose the gym beam.

[99] So I prefer cake.

[100] So like think about that with like being through something very traumatic.

[101] That idea, the idea surrounding that event or series event can really influence how you interact with your world or how your life might be put on hold because of certain things that you've been through.

[102] Yeah, I think of it too as like, you know, in English class you learn about like, false narrators or like untrustworthy narrators and there's so many different types and I feel like we get those false narratives in our head and I know like for myself I was told a lot of things repeatedly growing up and so that became my narrative until one day I realized fuck all that noise none of that is actually true that's more about those people's stuff than really has anything to do with me therefore I get to write my own narrative now that's something I've definitely learned in therapy.

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[132] So what is the difference for those who are researching a counselor versus a therapist versus a psychiatrist?

[133] I've seen them all.

[134] But what is that, what are those words actually mean?

[135] If you have experienced sexual abuse or you want, everybody's got their stuff, right?

[136] But if you're dealing with those big T traumas, what are the important things to keep in mind and what are the differences between those titles and where do you go?

[137] That's a great question.

[138] So, counselor and therapist are often very interchangeable terms.

[139] The key thing that you want to look for when you're looking for a therapist or a counselor is to make sure that they're licensed.

[140] licensed, licensed in whatever state that you're in.

[141] A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who specializes in mental health and may or may not provide psychotherapy.

[142] Some have a lot of training in psychotherapy and some have very little and do none of that.

[143] And most kind of focus on treating mental health -related issues through pharmacology, basically prescribing medication.

[144] So who you might seek out really depends.

[145] on you.

[146] I tell people to do what you feel works best for you.

[147] So depending on the person, the presenting issue, meaning like why you're seeking counseling, that could influence who you see or you don't see.

[148] What you do want to look for is someone who really listens to you, right, instead of like it's trying to tell you how to do you.

[149] You can confirm that people are licensed how through their licensed number, like through, is there like a website?

[150] people can go to like make sure the person they're seeing is legit yeah um in california you can look up anybody's license um just on uh california's uh board of behavioral sciences website i'll find it and link it yeah um but if you're going through like a psychology today they will usually verify that somebody is licensed um so that you know that those profiles are folks that have are licensed within whatever state that they're working in Cool.

[151] And I love psychology today.

[152] You're the one who got me actually, like, turned on to the website and how easy it is to find therapists.

[153] And there's all these different types of therapies out there, lots of different acronms.

[154] One that I've been hearing a lot about recently is EMDR.

[155] Can you talk about what that means and how it benefits trauma victims?

[156] Yeah.

[157] So EMDR, it stands for eye movement, desensitization, and reprocessing.

[158] And it uses this brief exposure.

[159] combined with bilateral stimulation to help a client process some unresolved traumatic memories.

[160] The benefit for EMDR for some people is that in that modality, it's not required for a person to provide like a very detailed description of the trauma that they experienced, nor is it about, you know, finding those unresolved beliefs and trying to challenge them.

[161] EMDR is about trying to reduce the distress that a person experiences, that, you know, parasympathetic nervous system trying to activate that when your sympathetic nervous system, which is the fighter flight response is kicking in.

[162] So basically like that programming a little bit we were talking about that's kind of hardwired into your brain?

[163] Yeah, the distress, the feelings that people have associated with us.

[164] Okay.

[165] So those like physical triggers?

[166] Yeah.

[167] Or even emotional triggers, just like how that sort of replays for us?

[168] Yes, exactly.

[169] And it's a very, like, structured approach.

[170] And people tend to get pretty good results from it.

[171] It's got a lot of, it's an evidence -based practice with a lot of research behind it.

[172] I personally do not do EMDR therapy because I haven't been trained in it.

[173] So if you're going to look for somebody to do EMDR with, you're going to want to look for somebody that's been certified in doing EMDR.

[174] Again, this is helpful for you if you kind of, it may be too painful to even talk or describe in detail what happened to you, but you're still wanting to get some reliefs and reduce the distress that's associated with that traumatic event.

[175] And what about talk therapy?

[176] The term talk therapy.

[177] I've heard that a lot from my Canadian friends.

[178] I don't know if it's interchangeable with psychotherapy.

[179] Yeah, so talk therapy and psychotherapy are probably interchangeable.

[180] Most people, I think, when they're thinking about talk therapy, they have this sort of archaic view of like the person lying on the couch and the therapist, you know, sitting next to them.

[181] Do you have a couch?

[182] I have a couch.

[183] Just in case.

[184] Yeah.

[185] I've had one person lay on my couch.

[186] Talk therapy usually is psychodynamic therapy, which is kind of discovering how.

[187] maybe like that trauma has impacted you and what it means to you in your life.

[188] It can also involve, and it does involve when you're doing psychodynamic psychotherapy, like reviewing like your childhood history and maybe how some of those patterns are playing out in your life today.

[189] What would you say to somebody who's maybe feeling nervous, like they don't know whether or not therapy is for them or if they're ready to talk about all of their quote stuff?

[190] what is the process of therapy like is it something that people typically set their own pace ideally yes so if somebody came into me saying that and a lot of people often do I would say that that's totally normal it's it's normal to feel totally anxious and nervous and uncomfortable and not sure about what that exchange is going to be like and what therapy is going to be like and it's different from therapist to therapist.

[191] Okay, this is not like Starbucks.

[192] That's a really good point to make.

[193] And also when I used to work at a non -profit, the lady used to always say about doctors, not everybody graduates at the top of their class.

[194] There are people who graduate with Cs, you know what I mean?

[195] And it just showed me like that, yeah, we're all humans too, right?

[196] So sometimes you might have to like date a couple therapist before you find the right one.

[197] Would you say that's true?

[198] Yeah.

[199] So this kind of addresses that question of like, you know, what's important to consider when you're seeing a therapist, right?

[200] I always tell people, and this is especially true if you're going to unpack trauma, okay?

[201] You have to go at your own pace, always 100 % of the time.

[202] If somebody that you're working with doesn't honor that, it's really time to swipe left, okay?

[203] I love that.

[204] So going at your own pace could mean, you know, ripping the bandage.

[205] off or it could also be like a road that's traveled very slowly or a combination of both.

[206] But that decision has to be yours at the end of the day, not your therapist decision, not your families, not your hot yoga teachers.

[207] It has to be your decision about how that unfolds.

[208] And so, you know, I like this idea of trying a couple out.

[209] I always tell people to, you know, be choosy.

[210] I don't want them to be Tinder choosy, meaning like you don't need to try everybody.

[211] it only go see everybody for one session or you know you're like oh I don't like that person's outfit or that person's hair is weird or that person seems this or I didn't like what that person said like give give your therapist a good shot a fair shot you know a few sessions unless your gut is really telling you like otherwise so again think about this idea of your brain always trying to protect you sometimes when something's like really uncomfy your brain says get the hell out of there as quickly as you can, right?

[212] But the thing that might be really uncomfy might be the road that you need to travel in order to get healthy again or feel whole again.

[213] And so don't let that uncomfortable feeling be the dictator of whether or not you go back.

[214] You need to listen to your gut, but you also need to keep in mind, oh, is my brain trying to get me to avoid this situation that's producing a lot of anxiety for me?

[215] Other things that I tell people to do.

[216] do is to find someone that they can like push back with meaning like if you don't like something that your therapist says or you're offended or something doesn't make sense being able to be completely honest with that person and say like hey I didn't like that right or I'm not getting this is super important you can do that my clients can that's such a good point yeah I mean it it's a better working relationship for me because I don't have to guess where their heads at.

[217] And I try not to because that's not my job.

[218] My job is to kind of support them, help them identify patterns come alongside them as they're walking this road, you know, not be an expert on their life.

[219] And so that's the other thing I would tell people is look for somebody that's a specialist and not necessarily an expert.

[220] And I'm not going to say that black and white, you know, people that identify as experts, that they're these douchebag kind of folks.

[221] Like there are by that word expert is don't be looking for some sort of like expert or life coach to say like this is how you need to do things do this so exactly or or at least saying hey this might be something to try i'm not sure you know that's a different approach than you need to do this or you know especially as you're dealing with trauma again i i know i'm driving this point home but it's very important to just go to let that out and doses that you can handle Because that's a little bit of exposing yourself to some of that uncomfortable feelings, the memories, but also having control and being in the driver's seat.

[222] Since we're on the topic of things to look for in a therapist, is there anything else that you would say or recommend besides the things you just touched on and obviously making sure they're licensed and they are knowledgeable in what they are talking about or if you're going to see them for a specific type of therapy that they're actually certified for those.

[223] those therapies.

[224] But what other, I guess, tips would you give people who are considering starting therapy this year?

[225] I think of therapy as an investment.

[226] Okay.

[227] And for me, I know I'm biased, but I know it's been true for my life.

[228] And I see it in working with clients is that investing into yourself and investing into your brain is one of the best investments that you can ever make in your entire life because you're going to have that brain for the rest of your life and getting in there and learning more about yourself and my belief is you know most of mental health is as surrounds this idea of being disconnected right whether that's from yourself or other people or you name it but being able to reconnect to who you are and put your struggles in perspective meaning those things are not the most important thing about what makes you who you are but they're often the most dominating and oppressive things.

[229] And so figuring out who you are, learning better ways of coping with things, learning better ways to communicate, all of these things are going to be so worth the investment that you're making because therapy is not cheap either, but it's going to follow you the rest of your life.

[230] So that's why I said to people, to be choosy, look for a therapist.

[231] that you feel like you have a good fit with.

[232] Ask a lot of questions with your therapist.

[233] If your therapist can't deal with those questions in the beginning, that should be a good indicator too.

[234] If you feel like your therapist is just trying to come up with an answer, right?

[235] Like if I don't know something, I'll tell people I don't know because I don't know.

[236] I would also say that you can augment your therapeutic process by doing other things that are not, quote unquote, therapy, like other mindful activities like exercise or yoga, or learning guitar or write an awesome gratitude journal and follow it up with a kick -ass book those things and meditation right i'm all about i was i'm like all about the meditation videos on youtube i'm like they're great i'm like obsessed and i don't know who these people are but if it helps me calm down when i'm having a panic attack that's all i need to know hopefully they're not like hypnotizing and like secretly getting me to buy stuff off instagram or something but i don't know that that's possible but there are also other tools that you can use in terms of types of therapy.

[237] So what about the term exposure therapy?

[238] What does that mean?

[239] Yeah, so exposure therapy is generally involves kind of gradually facing your fears.

[240] So if you were to think about that in terms of like a phobia, if you're afraid of flying or driving a car, it would probably first start with like just how does it feel when we're talking about you driving a car like it's a very graduated type of therapy which increases your ability to tolerate those environments or things that cause you a lot of fear so most often when it comes to dealing with trauma this involves sometimes just simply being able to talk about it okay and I don't say simply to minimize what a traumatic event can do to a person.

[241] While the answer, at least the beginning of the answer, might be simple, such as learning to be able to talk about it, in practice, that's not so easy.

[242] To back up a little bit with exposure therapy, do you have to, is that something also that a therapist needs to be specifically, like, specialize in?

[243] Or is that, like, if you are a licensed therapist, this is something you're already trained and know how to do?

[244] I think most therapists will have some idea and grasp of what exposure therapy is.

[245] I mean, it's born out of cognitive behavioral therapy.

[246] And in relation to trauma, like let's say, for example, somebody had really traumatic car accident and maybe they're struggling to even be physically in a car or drive.

[247] So is that an example of how exposure therapy could aid a person like that, is even just talking about it, maybe even getting in the car without it moving?

[248] like different, is it to be sort of simplistic about it?

[249] Is that, is that like an example of a way you would help somebody who's been impacted by trauma, be re -exposed, just what traumatize them?

[250] Yes.

[251] And this is exactly why I'm saying that you need to go at your own pace and you need to be able to have this relationship where your therapist, that you can say, like, I need to put a pause on this and where your therapist can also say, I need to put a pause on this, or your therapist can say, hey, how would it feel?

[252] feel to move more into this and, you know, and that's sort of a gentle way of pushing you with still giving you control over that experience.

[253] And most often, depending on what you've been through, those things have been outside of your control.

[254] Most traumatic events are things that are outside of your control.

[255] So really being able to have that control and your therapy is important.

[256] So there's a couple other types of trauma therapy too.

[257] There's one called somatic experiencing therapy.

[258] and this really focuses on the idea that most people believe today is that, you know, this mindfulness connection, okay?

[259] So often trauma lives on or manifests itself in the body.

[260] Somatic experiencing involves like delicately introducing discussion of the trauma while simultaneously turning into a person's physical responses to talking about or thinking about that traumatic event.

[261] And that's done very slowly, but it's also about tuning in, okay?

[262] That's the somatic experience.

[263] Where's the physical, where's trauma living and hanging out in your body?

[264] And sort of reconnecting with yourself, looking at your body and how this trauma has impacted you physically as well in our physical responses to things?

[265] Right.

[266] So like, you know, depending on what trauma, like I'm, when I talk about this piece of that event, like I feel like a tightness in my throat, really tuning into the body.

[267] Because when you think about emotions, right, Like people think emotions as being this very cerebral thing, but emotions often have a physical component.

[268] Anxiety often has a physical component.

[269] You feel butterflies in your stomach.

[270] You feel your heart pounding, right?

[271] Depression can also show up as, you know, physical fatigue.

[272] You know, emotions affect you on a physical level.

[273] But we do a lot of things in life, too, whether it's through drugs or alcohol or toxic relationships or lots of religion or too much exercise.

[274] or work, work, work, work, work, we do all these things that really desensitize ourselves from actually feeling our body.

[275] If I told you right now, hey, I want you to stop for a second and I want you to focus on your pinky toe.

[276] And I want you to feel if maybe there's a tingle in your pinky toe or...

[277] Now there's a tingle.

[278] You might start to like tune into that part of your body in a way that you not wouldn't normally do.

[279] Is that like body scanning?

[280] It's like body scanning.

[281] Which can you explain what that is?

[282] So it's it's a guided meditation usually a mindfulness meditation where you're going over different parts of your body and really tuning in zoning in like picturing like maybe like a laser right laser focusing on one spot and going through the entire body.

[283] And so that's done as typically like it's a relaxation thing or just as a mindfulness practice or a meditation.

[284] In the somatic experiencing it's it's different.

[285] It's talking about thinking about your trauma but very specifically asking, okay, where do you feel that in your body?

[286] Doing that very slowly.

[287] And is that something that someone needs to be certified for or do most therapists, are they already trained or licensed to conduct that form of therapy?

[288] Yes and no. So a lot of people can do these types of therapies without that certification.

[289] A certification just kind of lets you know like, hey, this person's done some extra work in this.

[290] But, you know, for me, I'm not certified in somatic experiencing therapy, but I use a ton of mindfulness practice in no matter who I'm working with or what I'm working with because I think that learning to be able to tune into your body and tune into your mind and notice what's going on is such a powerful tool.

[291] It's where all of the gold, in my opinion, lies, is learning to be able to stop for a second or just notice what's happening.

[292] Oh, that not good enough story showed up again.

[293] Or I heard my mind tell me, oh, I can't do it.

[294] Or you're going to fail.

[295] Being able to do that Or, oh, man, I noticed that I really wanted to get fucked up and high when I got in a fight with my girlfriend today.

[296] Like those things about noticing, tuning in, being mindful is so important for everything that you do in life, no matter what type of therapy it is.

[297] That's so helpful.

[298] Another type of therapy that has been helpful for folks is something called cognitive processing therapy.

[299] This kind of starts with somebody writing out the traumatic event.

[300] Because for some folks, it's harder to talk about.

[301] same easier to write about same right and it's them telling their story in problem solving therapy we kind of look at this as a tool called externalization which i like to think of as essentially just downloading your brain if i'm dealing with a lot of anxiety myself or i have a client that's dealing with a ton of anxiety i will have them sometimes use this tool to like throw a journal next to your bed at night and your brain's going you know firing a million miles an hour like mine is just write down everything that's on your brain, kind of like downloads it so that your brain doesn't have to keep taking up space with thinking about these things over and over, oh, I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do this.

[302] It's there and it's safe and your brain goes, ah, like it's like a downloading.

[303] So it's a way to externalize in cognitive processing.

[304] When you're writing out your trauma, it's a way to kind of create some space.

[305] So maybe you can talk about it or work with that trauma in a different way.

[306] Yeah.

[307] And for myself, I feel like sometimes when you've written down what you need and it's for me a lot of the time it's just for myself it helps me also validate myself because something that I struggle with a lot is second guessing did that really happen did that person it becomes like this whirlwind of thought and also help us narrow down what our feelings actually are because you have to like put the pencil down to the paper and say what it is you actually feel and so it has forced me to be like wait what do I feel about that I freaking love that you just said what you said oh good I think that that is so on the money.

[308] I think that that tool of externalization can open up new avenues for exploring, but that idea of self -validation, oftentimes, and especially if we've been through a traumatic event or we've been in an abusive relationship, we're constantly looking outside of ourselves for somebody to tell us we're okay.

[309] If I just find enough worthy people to tell me that I'm worthy, then I'll be worthy.

[310] When you're hustling for your worthiness, you're on this hustle.

[311] Perfectionism is a hustle.

[312] And I remember Brené Brown said that once.

[313] And that stood out to me because I was like, that's what I'm trying to do.

[314] I'm trying to get everyone to love me and everyone to approve of me and everyone to validate me. Instead of caring about what I think about myself and looking at that and making like, hey, maybe that should be a priority, like how I feel.

[315] Absolutely.

[316] To the point where you look at for validation from people, you don't even like.

[317] You know what I mean?

[318] And then you're like, why do I even care what this person thinks?

[319] So it's such a spirals.

[320] And that's also what you're just describing is also about that noticing what's happening in the moment.

[321] Like, why am I so caught up and trying to earn my approval from this person who I don't care to really value their opinion in other areas?

[322] They haven't earned the right to give that opinion, right?

[323] I mean, I think you can go the opposite way where you like don't care about what anyone thinks.

[324] That must be so nice.

[325] And I think that that would be.

[326] like imbalanced as well because I really give a shit about the people that have been there for me at my absolute lowest worst time in my life and my best time in the life and what they have to say about a decision that I make or something that I do.

[327] I might say, hey, Isaac, you might need to take a look at this and I'm going to look at that.

[328] Where somebody else that doesn't know me, I might take a look at it for a second, but I also might think, hmm, this person doesn't know who I am.

[329] They like, they really haven't earned that right to have that big of an opinion in my life.

[330] meaning I'm not going to give it as much weight as I'm going to give somebody that I know is speaking out of love and not trying to be an asshole.

[331] So we talked a little bit about like kind of that quote dating process and and trying different things and finding what's right for us.

[332] How would you describe what it feels like when you are with the right therapist?

[333] I think that there's a natural chemistry that you feel.

[334] When I work with somebody, I don't ever want it to feel like a top -down relationship.

[335] Like I really want it to feel like a collaboration in helping them.

[336] figure out, you know, where they're stuck because they actually know.

[337] They're the ones that holds the answers.

[338] And I might be able to step outside and be an unbiased, you know, third -party viewer and help them identify those patterns.

[339] But ultimately, when clients are very successful working with me, it's because of their work, not mine, right?

[340] You know, I ended therapy with someone today who's, I've been working with a long time.

[341] It's very bittersweet.

[342] They're doing awesome and it's so exciting and I feel so privileged to be a part of that journey.

[343] And I reminded that I'm, I said, you know, you're experiencing this because you actually, you did the hard work of tuning into this shit in here, but you didn't just stay in here.

[344] You also did some of the stuff outside of here.

[345] And, you know, they were talking about just feeling that connection to themselves again and it's improved their relationships with other people and opened up things in a brand new way, which is really exciting to be a part.

[346] But I can't take credit for that.

[347] I think it's just about working with somebody who is willing to work as hard as you are and wants to support you and you feel like they're not trying to make you into their own image of what they think that you should do with their life or your life.

[348] We talked a little bit about psychology today earlier, and I know I've used that to find a therapist before, but is that where you would recommend for people to go?

[349] If they're in the U .S. or beyond, like, where can they go today to?

[350] find a therapist.

[351] So if they're in California, then go to Whole Wellness Therapy .com.

[352] So psychology today, you can go on there and you can type in your zip code and it will give you a list of therapists in your area.

[353] Also, goodtherapy .org is another place that folks can find therapists.

[354] I mean, it's pretty easy now to get a list of therapists in your area just from a simple Google search or you can type in what actual type of therapy you're seeking and Google will bring you results of that type of therapy in your area.

[355] Also contacting their insurance provider right is another route for yes absolutely yeah you could just call your insurance company and say do you have a list of providers that are in network and they could give you a list of providers if you have a PPO plan which allows you to see out of network therapists which I'm an out of network therapist You can find therapist on Psychology Today .com as well.

[356] So you can get basically a receipt or a billing statement that you can then turn into your insurance for reimbursement.

[357] Oh, that's dope.

[358] I didn't know that.

[359] So we talked a little bit about this before, but what are some positive coping skills that anyone can implement?

[360] Like I mentioned earlier, I love meditation, and that really helps me with my anxiety, specifically for me. I struggle with sleep.

[361] What other tools would you recommend?

[362] Whatever works for you, meaning whatever a lot of you, allows you to kind of dip your toe into whatever struggle you're dealing with, whatever that's trauma or not, while still kind of honoring your pace in the process of that.

[363] Okay, so that could be things like meditation or journaling or learning, breathing.

[364] Mindfulness is simply the art of paying attention on purpose in the present moment, non -judgmentally.

[365] So there's John Cabot -Zinn who kind of brought a lot of the Western focus on mindfulness and meditation into our purview.

[366] That's a direct quote from him.

[367] But it's just about being present in the moment.

[368] So you can wash dishes and be mindful, like focusing on just washing the dish rather than thinking about other things or noticing when you're thinking about other things and bring it back to whatever you're doing.

[369] Mindfulness can be every time the weekends come around and it's Saturday and you're thinking, oh, my God, it's Sunday and then it's going to be Monday and I have to go back to work.

[370] is about like noticing that you're thinking that way and bringing it back to the present moment and being able to be with your family enjoying what you're doing or oh i can't wait for this can be a practice in a form of mindfulness which makes that muscle in your brain of being able to pause and create some space from whatever thought or belief or trigger situation shows up before you act a lot of times they say in meditation too is like if you find yourself drifting just gently redirect yourself and I mean all I do is gently redirect myself.

[371] I'm in the washing the dish for 10 seconds.

[372] I'm stoked.

[373] I like that term of like just sort of gently nudging yourself like, hey, we're not thinking about Monday.

[374] And I do this with my kids a lot too.

[375] One of my kids, he likes to get ahead of himself and he's always talking about what we're going to do next.

[376] What are we going to do next?

[377] What's the next thing?

[378] And we always say, what are we doing right now?

[379] You know, what are we doing today?

[380] And it's helped me too.

[381] Remind myself because it's so easy to just get in the future and miss what's happening now.

[382] Are there any other, we talked about body scan, which is another like mindfulness technique and meditation we've talked about.

[383] And we also talked a bit about like journaling and writing down those things.

[384] Is there anything else?

[385] Yeah, I think any type of self -care activity is a great thing to augment whatever you're doing.

[386] So things like exercise or yoga or, you know, particularly those things that get you focused on the body.

[387] Like I like doing float therapy from time to time where I'll go and float therapy is kind of like you're laying on water that's got like 800 pounds of Epsom salt.

[388] So you float and it's warm to the temperature of your body and it's very quiet and you can make it completely dark and it's just a way to de -stress and to practice mindfulness or some people go to the sauna or walking.

[389] The Buddhist monks are famously doing walking.

[390] meditation all the time focusing on each step I mean these are things you can practice for a lot of them for free on in your daily life you know taking time to stop during your day whether you set a timer and once a day it goes off and you just stop for five minutes and just kind of sit and be silent all of those things are simple ways that you can really that really add up okay if you can manage to amass you know an hour of meditation a week so in a seven day period, you can average one hour.

[391] By the end of the year, you will have gained 52 hours of meditation on your brain that you never would have done before.

[392] And that's a lot of meditation on your brain.

[393] Especially with like social media.

[394] And I don't know, I just feel like life is just constant and mindfulness has been so helpful for me and my anxiety because there's just so much happening all the time and we can get so swept up.

[395] And even like our phone, there's like this broad city episode where it shows them like getting sucked into their phones and they forget they're even sitting next to each other.

[396] And I always think of that.

[397] And that happened to me last night.

[398] Like I was supposed to go do something with my husband and all the kids went to bed and it was quiet in the house.

[399] And then I just started looking at my phone.

[400] And the next thing I knew, an hour went by.

[401] And I can't tell you what I looked at, what I read.

[402] None of it was important.

[403] And I could have spent that time meditating.

[404] I could have spent that time preparing for my week or doing something positive.

[405] And like no shade on the internet, obviously, because I love the internet.

[406] But I think it's so important to look at how we are spending our time with our brain.

[407] I totally agree with that because I think that we kind of get addicted to the busyness.

[408] And a lot of the times I see for myself and with my clients is this need to constantly distract, right?

[409] All the time because some people are afraid, you know, especially with trauma and it makes sense and it should be supported.

[410] that you know they're kind of afraid to watch their mind like what's going to come up so it's it's honoring that process of that about like making a little bit of room and a little bit of space to feel those comfy feelings when they come up or to notice when you have some rest time that desire and that urge to just want to fill it up with as many much busy task as you can right because it's uncomfortable to be not busy one of the things that you you actually taught me as a friend was the 478 breathing, and I love that, and I'm always telling people about it.

[411] Can you explain to listeners what that is?

[412] Yeah, so I believe this was a guy named Dr. Andrew Wheel is the one who came up with this.

[413] Don't quote me. Don't hate me internet for saying that.

[414] If it's not, hopefully the right guy gets credit.

[415] But 478 is a powerful breathing tool that helps to activate that parasympathetic nervous system response.

[416] So basically, when your sympathetic nervous system is firing, that's when you're bite, flight, or freeze, okay?

[417] When your parasympathetic nervous system is firing, that's usually when you're eating, like you feel that calm and that relaxed.

[418] That's the state you're trying to get on before going to bed.

[419] So like blue light filtering glasses at night can really help, especially if you have bright white light in your house or you're watching TV or on your screen at all and getting a very inexpensive pair of blue light filtering glasses can be invaluable.

[420] But 478 breathing, all it is is breathing in for a count of four, holding for a count of seven, and out for a count of eight.

[421] And when you breathe in for that count of four, you don't want to be...

[422] You just kind of want to breathe in slowly through the nose, hold that breath for a count of seven, and breathe out for a count of eight, just slowly through the mouth.

[423] And I tell people to try to do ten rounds of possible.

[424] thing that I love about this is if you're feeling particularly anxious at work.

[425] I've had people that are in high -level positions that have anxiety, and part of their anxiety helps them be really good at their job, and then part of the time it really impacts them in really deleterious ways.

[426] So they'll go use the restroom, quote -unquote, and do, you know, 10 rounds of this 4 -7 -8 breathing before a presentation, just when they're feeling anxious, and it will help to activate that parasympathetic nervous system response.

[427] I have done it, and it actually, like, you're ago when you first, I was, I think I was having like really high anxiety and I'm just like, I don't know what to do.

[428] And you're like, hey, try this.

[429] Just kind of in passing.

[430] And then I went, it was like, oh my God, I'm obsessed with this.

[431] And I started doing it before every meeting.

[432] And that's where I was at at the time.

[433] And I still use this in the car or if I'm just feeling anxious.

[434] And I can't recommend it enough to people because like you said, 10 rounds, it takes, you know, a handful of minutes.

[435] For me, I can physically feel my body relaxed.

[436] And that like almost, I don't know if it's oxytocin or whatever it is we get from taking really great deep breaths but it really there's something to it for sure like the physical relaxation that also comes from that just breathing this might tie into that whole discussion of the right therapist right so this stuff like the 478 breathing can have a powerful what we call anxiolytic effect which means reducing the anxiety but it doesn't always okay and short of just completely getting blacked out on a benzodiazepine like a Xanax or an at a van like taking too much of those things or you know getting completely drunk anxiety and and depression and those things are not going to go away and so part of the work of therapy and why it's so powerful from my vantage point is that it helps to teach you that even if there is anxiety even if there is depression on board these things don't have to be in the driver's seat of your life, meaning they might be in the passenger seat, like trying to nag you, trying to pull you down, but now you've learned some tools in order to go towards the stuff that matters most to you without that stuff running the show, without that stuff making you take that detour, that stuff getting in the way of you pursuing your dreams or the type of relationships that you want, or going after your values and who you want to be at the end of the day.

[437] If you've found someone that says that they can eradicate your anxiety or depression completely, send me their information.

[438] I might be a little distrustful of that.

[439] So I can investigate them.

[440] Because I practice all of the same tools that I teach the clients that I work with.

[441] And tools can be those types of 478 breathing or it can be about being vulnerable with another person who's a trusted person.

[442] So it's not about the complete removal.

[443] In fact, when we wait for, oh, I have.

[444] to wait for my anxiety or I have to wait for my depression or I have to wait for my trauma to be cleared away before I can do X. It's about learning to put those things in their place and you can be able to go towards what matters most to you.

[445] I love that you said that.

[446] And one of the one of my children who has autism, we use something called applied behavioral analysis therapy.

[447] And one of the things that I learned through that is that observation that you were talking about, like really observing how we feel or maybe like observing what it is that brought us to that anxious place and then analyzing how we can reduce that in the future.

[448] And that's, I think, how therapy really has helped me as well.

[449] It's like not just looking at like you said, those coping skills, but also looking at the bigger picture and then also breaking down day to day.

[450] How are we moving through that?

[451] But then also working on our subconscious hard drive and our consciousness and all different things.

[452] Those deep rooted beliefs that are driving the show.

[453] Right.

[454] And that's why I love the name of your practice, whole wellness therapy, because it is really about the whole picture.

[455] It's not just about, oh, you know what, I learned this one coping mechanism.

[456] I'm good.

[457] Or, you know, I started walking.

[458] That's like something else that I hear a lot from people.

[459] They're like, I just realized I needed to exercise and it's fine, which is, that's great.

[460] And that might in the moment make us feel really great.

[461] Those endorphins kick in, blah, blah.

[462] But it's not going to change the fact that like you have stuff to work on and I think you can't exercise your way out of a toxic relationship exactly it's like yes those tools are great taking care of ourselves is great but it is a whole picture and we have to look at there's a lot of different slices kind of within that pie I think absolutely and that's the best kind of work as being able to take that in strides and go at your own pace you know like there's sort of a natural evolution that happens with many of the clients that I work with they might come in with like a presenting problem that's really causing them distress and we might build some you know coping tools around that and that's actually very important around trauma okay a lot of the sometimes when i'm not going to say a lot of the times but sometimes when somebody goes in to get trauma therapy they might rip the band -aid off way too quickly i've heard there's something called flooding that can happen yeah yeah this is overwhelming kind of feeling and that's what trauma feels like a lot of the time when people think about that traumatic event is that overwhelming feeling right so it's important to work with somebody that's going to help you like say hey hey let's slow down a bit and let's build some tools to help you kind of deal with what we would call emotional dysregulation basically like learning how to soothe yourself right in a way as you're gently starting to pull back and go at your own speed and then there might be times where you take a dive in but you've built a foundation of secure structure and coping skills and you're working with someone who's going to be there alongside you and that.

[463] And that's a very important thing to do and why I say go at your own pace because if you do that too quickly, you know, you risk re -traumatizing yourself, right, or reinforcing this idea that nothing's going to help me. And so then nothing's going to help me, story shows up.

[464] And you might not go back to therapy because it was too painful and you were too vulnerable too quickly.

[465] You just got to slow down sometimes, you know, don't, you don't need to rush your healing process.

[466] Your healing process happens over your entire life because, you know, the, you know, the version of yourself in 10 years should be a better version of yourself.

[467] 100%.

[468] I have thought in the past, being authentic means you say whatever about who you are to whoever, whenever, blah, blah, but those people haven't earned the right to hear my story yet.

[469] You know what I'm saying?

[470] Absolutely.

[471] And it's the same thing with your therapist.

[472] Like you have to build that trust and that foundation, I think, first before you're going to just get on into it.

[473] Yeah.

[474] well and that can be another way of people coping with their trauma is to completely intellectualize it and so I've worked with people who can tell their story no problem because it's been what's normal to them right and then I have to and then I have to say whoa whoa like what's it like to hear yourself saying that and they're like they've never thought about what they're actually saying and the implications and it's like well how does that feel in your body and like oh I don't want to look at that or like I want to keep it in intellectual land because that's a lot easier than connecting with the feelings behind what I'm intellectualizing, right?

[475] So it's important just to kind of work with someone that meets you where you're at, right?

[476] Not like to try to fold you into some sort of mold or box or whatnot.

[477] Now, I'm not talking about like structure types of therapy.

[478] Your experience of that will be different and unique based on who you are.

[479] That's just sort of serves as a road map but again meeting yourself where you're at and really taking your time i love that thank you so much for being here again i can't i can already like not wait to have you back i love to say that you're the doctor filled to my opera and i'm going to keep saying that because there is no one else out there that i admire i think as much as opra so i'm just going to go with that too i don't know about dr phil like that but you know where can people find you so you can find me at whole wellness therapy dot com that's W -H -O -L -E Wellness Therapy .com.

[480] You can also find me on the gram at Whole Wellness Therapy or on Facebook at Whole Wellness Therapy .com.

[481] And we're a private practice therapy collective with offices in Fair Oaks in Sacramento, and we can also work with folks online.

[482] And we really want to help you get reconnected to you with who you are.

[483] So that not only do you improve that relationship with yourself, but with others and the people that matter most.

[484] Awesome.

[485] Thank you again so much for, being here.

[486] I'm so happy to be here and thanks for having me back.

[487] Bye.

[488] Bye.

[489] by me, Tiffany Reese.

[490] To reference sources, resources, and links that are mentioned on the podcast, check out the show and episode notes.

[491] Music on this series by Gladrags.

[492] If you want to help out the podcast, you can leave us a positive review on iTunes.

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[500] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.

[501] I'm Dan Tversky.

[502] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[503] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[504] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[505] She's like, I can't.

[506] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[507] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[508] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[509] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[510] Well, you were holding something back.

[511] Intentionally.

[512] Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.

[513] No, it's hysteria.

[514] It's all in your head.

[515] It's not physical.

[516] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[517] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[518] Or is it something else entirely?

[519] Something's wrong here.

[520] Something's not right.

[521] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[522] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[523] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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