Camila Cabello

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Poust.

[3] Hi.

[4] That's your French name.

[5] Ooh, I want to be French.

[6] And people don't know if they should call you Poust or Poust.

[7] Monica Poust?

[8] Is it Monica Poust or Monica Poust?

[9] I, and I'll be very French about it and I'll be very snobby.

[10] You won't answer, right?

[11] Yeah.

[12] Oh, we like it, though.

[13] We love the French.

[14] Yeah, I love the French.

[15] I hate her guts.

[16] I know.

[17] That's why we love them.

[18] Yeah.

[19] It's so charming that they.

[20] They hate us.

[21] Today we have a megastar on Camila Cabello.

[22] This was a party so delightful.

[23] Camila loves armchair expert.

[24] Oh, so flattering.

[25] Oh, it makes it so much more fun interviewing people who know all the background inside jokes and everything.

[26] Yes.

[27] Camila is a Grammy nominated singer and songwriter.

[28] Her albums include Camila, Romance, Familia, and her new album CXOXO, is out June 28th, but people will already be partying to, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it.

[29] And people might have heard from fact check.

[30] Our fact check.

[31] Yes, we did an Easter egg.

[32] Yeah, my daughters have, for whatever reason, forbade me to listen to that song.

[33] That cut off, apparently in their eyes is somewhere before 49.

[34] What would I, would I say that, north of, south of?

[35] I think south of.

[36] I think you're going south, right?

[37] You're going down.

[38] This is like the down.

[39] Hill, uphill thing.

[40] So I'm going to say, they've decided you have to be north of 49.

[41] I don't know what that actual cutoff is, but for them, I was too old to love.

[42] I love it.

[43] I love it.

[44] Do you think maybe they, like, had a makeout to the song?

[45] And so the fact that you're singing it is this too much.

[46] Grossing them out.

[47] I don't think so, but that could happen in a few years.

[48] Yeah, it's common.

[49] Oh, gross.

[50] This is my, like, makeout song with my.

[51] My dad's singing it.

[52] I know that I'm realizing my boyfriend looks like my dad.

[53] Why do we do this?

[54] Please enjoy our new friend, Camila Cabello.

[55] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[56] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[57] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[58] Please excuse my four minutes party.

[59] Oh my God.

[60] Welcome.

[61] It's so nice to meet you guys.

[62] I am such a huge fan.

[63] No way.

[64] Can I tell you?

[65] Not possible.

[66] My mom was like, are you excited?

[67] I tell Liz all the time.

[68] Yes, I can believe you because Liz, they're friends.

[69] Oh, you guys are?

[70] Yes.

[71] But you didn't bring your mom to this.

[72] You brought her to call her daddy.

[73] Okay.

[74] Well, I'm sure, that's our fault.

[75] I'm sure we said no one should.

[76] You guys were like, mom.

[77] We were like, moms can make vulnerable conversations difficult.

[78] To be honest, and I'm not.

[79] just saying this.

[80] Not my mom.

[81] My mom is very cool.

[82] I have the same one.

[83] Right?

[84] Nice.

[85] I would not want my mom in here.

[86] I wouldn't want my dad to hear most things I talk about.

[87] But my mom is okay.

[88] Guys, you have no, when I tell you.

[89] Tell us.

[90] We love hearing it.

[91] Say more.

[92] I know the history of the chair and that you used to sweat and the other one.

[93] Still sweating this one.

[94] Right?

[95] But you can't see it.

[96] Maybe you'll tell us something about us.

[97] We don't even know about ourselves.

[98] Oh, my God.

[99] I can't wait.

[100] Oh, yeah.

[101] I mean, I don't know.

[102] I only know from what I've heard on the episodes.

[103] What do you hold?

[104] Because you were holding something in the other interview I just watched of you.

[105] And I thought it was a vape, but it seems to be a lip moisturizer.

[106] Yeah, it's just some aquifer.

[107] I think I just like holding things.

[108] Yeah.

[109] If you saw my call her daddy one, that was my first interview that I've done in so long.

[110] I was so fucking nervous.

[111] You were.

[112] Yeah.

[113] For this one, I'm so excited because I know the best friend's name.

[114] He's here.

[115] He's here.

[116] He's here.

[117] Right.

[118] I know all about it.

[119] First of all, you're so stunning.

[120] It's kind of overwhelming.

[121] Oh, my gosh.

[122] Why didn't expect you to be so, like, jacked?

[123] Wait, can we stop and pause?

[124] We have to stop and pause.

[125] Because Dax says that no women notice that.

[126] And you just proved me 100 % correct.

[127] And if you ever say it again.

[128] No, I'm sure women notice that, but I'm saying it like, you know how bros will be like, bro, you're so jacked.

[129] I'm saying it in like, in a bro way.

[130] In the fact that I'm 60 years older than you.

[131] 100%.

[132] I'm literally saying that to you as objectively like I'm growing out.

[133] But that's what I'm saying.

[134] And not even in a sexual way or a romantic way.

[135] He just says women don't.

[136] don't notice it and they obviously do and I say they do and he's just never wanting to hear it.

[137] I think also because I listen to the podcast so much, you know how you put a face or a physicality to a voice?

[138] And then when I met you guys, I was like, whoa, this is like the real thing.

[139] You know what I mean?

[140] Yeah, 3D.

[141] Totally.

[142] Because features get really blurry on pictures.

[143] Well, I don't think, I don't feel very photogenic.

[144] I used to be when I was one.

[145] When you were a baby.

[146] Most photogenic baby of all time.

[147] Wow, super cute.

[148] How cute is that baby?

[149] Really so cute.

[150] And I felt like, such a creep because I recognize that it was baby you instantly.

[151] I was like, is that baby Monica?

[152] I feel like I'm literally president of the fan club.

[153] I'm not, actually, you know I'm not going to say it because it's going to sound like I'm fishing.

[154] I was going to say, I actually don't feel like I'm that photogenic either.

[155] Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[156] And you're afraid people are going to be like, get over yourself, you're fucking beautiful.

[157] Right.

[158] Right.

[159] Look, but all things are true.

[160] I know one side of my face looks fucking crazy on pictures.

[161] There's one side of my face where I literally look like a different person.

[162] And one side of my face where I'm like, wow, I look like a supermodel.

[163] Same.

[164] Same.

[165] Yeah.

[166] So, I'm I'm curious because it pairs up.

[167] Oh, that's the right one.

[168] Oh, good.

[169] Thank you.

[170] Okay, so Kristen and I kind of are made in heaven because she has that side and I have that side.

[171] And when we stand next to each other, it's always the correct side.

[172] It's perfect.

[173] You and I could be bros. I would always have to stand on your right.

[174] Like, if we were looking out that way, I would always be on your right.

[175] You'd be on my left and we'd be golden.

[176] So wait, so you think.

[177] Like stand up.

[178] So we have the same.

[179] Because this is my good side.

[180] Oh, that's your good side, rather.

[181] No, that's good.

[182] Oh, wow.

[183] How cute.

[184] See?

[185] Yeah.

[186] But the hard part is when it was like the other way.

[187] We'd have to do, like, the prom picture.

[188] Yeah.

[189] Because we had the same good side, which happens, and you get creative.

[190] Or you just embrace the bad side and you're like, I promise you, I'm cuter than this.

[191] This is me. Okay, no, super self -indulgent, but I feel like it'll be informative.

[192] When did you start listening?

[193] And who turned you onto it?

[194] Because I want to say you were dating Sean when we interviewed him.

[195] Yes, I was.

[196] Okay.

[197] Because I remember we were both such huge fans of the show, and he was so nervous being on the show.

[198] And I was like, I don't feel like I was even ready to be on the show until this point in my life.

[199] Wow.

[200] I would just sort of been, like, just too excited.

[201] But I think I've been a pretty long time.

[202] Was there a guest that got you to check it out?

[203] For some reason, the David Sedaris episodes are really, because you guys have, like, four with him.

[204] Yeah, he's our return.

[205] Yeah, yeah, David Sedaris returns.

[206] But I can't remember, I listened to a lot of the actors that are on the show and David Sedaris.

[207] Okay, now, why were you nervous to be on Call Her Daddy?

[208] Just because it had been a long time since you were interviewed?

[209] Yeah, it had been a long time, and I was like, fuck.

[210] anything that I haven't talked about, it's all going to come up in this one interview.

[211] Yeah.

[212] Did anything naughty come up that you were like...

[213] Yeah, but I feel like I was okay.

[214] Like, I knew the Sean stuff was going to come out.

[215] I knew the group stuff was going to...

[216] I love that.

[217] I'm just bullet -pointed.

[218] This means I've really overcome my fear.

[219] Yeah, that's like, bullet -pointing all the things that I was trying to dodge for like two years.

[220] Yeah, exactly.

[221] I just had forgotten how to be public for a bit.

[222] What were you doing?

[223] I was writing and I was working, but I had just stopped...

[224] doing interviews.

[225] I just stopped being a public -facing personality.

[226] And it was a conscious decision, right?

[227] Yeah, it was a conscious decision.

[228] I think I just needed to do it for my mental health.

[229] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[230] Now, when I'm talking about it with my therapist and stuff, it's really healthy to be who you are out loud.

[231] And who cares.

[232] And who fucking cares.

[233] Fuck you guys.

[234] I'm kidding.

[235] The thing that I, and we just had a guest on that I was bonding with over, Tiffany Haddish, it'll be out by then.

[236] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[237] I think the thing she and I both had the feels like maybe you have a touch of is it's a power thing for me it's a control thing like i'm not gonna let you shame me so i'm gonna be right out in front i'm just gonna go like yeah here it is and i'm not ashamed of it that is the power move i'm not giving you the power to whisper and oh she doesn't want to you know it feels way more empowering this is extremely timely i probably shouldn't say it but i'm gonna is it gossipy yeah well no it's not gossipy but love some hot goss for sure so right before i got here i got some information about a previous guest who's publicist has reached out.

[238] So there's all these articles about this person that are ridiculous.

[239] So ridiculous.

[240] Meaning frivolous?

[241] It's Maya.

[242] Rudolph?

[243] Yes.

[244] Oh, so it's excerpts from the episode that she did?

[245] I don't know what they're saying.

[246] There's something happening, I guess, where they're calling her a nepo baby, and they're referring to this episode.

[247] But there's no reference of nepo baby.

[248] There's nothing.

[249] But also, I feel like it's also kind of a neutral phrase.

[250] Like, if you are a nepo baby, why does it matter?

[251] Then you just are.

[252] Let's add, nepotism cannot get you on the Saturday night live for seven years where you score every night.

[253] What the fuck are we talking about?

[254] Nepotism is like the dumb, dumb son running the Fortune 500 company that he inherited.

[255] It's not literally the obvious talent that Maya Rudolph possesses.

[256] Yeah, so I don't know what they're saying because I haven't looked, but it is so annoying that someone decided to grab onto something.

[257] You can't control other people's stupidity and their moods and how they fucking want to react to you.

[258] And don't give them the credit.

[259] Now I'm 27 and I think I'm finally really letting go of what people think of me as just none of my business.

[260] I can only control being me. And like you said, if you're up front about all of your shit, then it's like, well, you can't say it to me first.

[261] It's so hard to get there when you have started really young in the industry.

[262] I still am like, how much should a person be triggered by when I see something that hurts my feelings on the internet?

[263] I don't know if the amount that I get triggered is normal.

[264] So I just delete the shit.

[265] I delete the app.

[266] I'm just like I can't.

[267] It is hard to know.

[268] I'm writing about my childhood right now.

[269] Are you writing a memoir, a book?

[270] I am, yeah, yeah.

[271] Oh, my God, that's so exciting.

[272] And I'm describing where I had to read out loud, and I was stuttering and fucking chorting and making all these weird noises trying to sound out shit.

[273] And I could see my face.

[274] The freckles, there's too many, and it just looked like a cloud of fart gas.

[275] It was like yellow freckle gas on my face.

[276] And my teeth were so jacked.

[277] You did like a reading.

[278] I'm talking about the experience of being in class with dyslexia, and they call on you to read.

[279] And you're like trying to read the thing and you're fucking the whole thing up.

[280] But there's not only that.

[281] I can like see my face fucking.

[282] it all up.

[283] And then I'm describing my freckles and my crooked teeth and my huge overbite.

[284] But I'm acknowledging, I'm like, I don't know how that was relative to everyone else's experience.

[285] I feel like I trend really self -conscious, like above normal self -consciousness.

[286] Like, even before you were in the public eye?

[287] Yes, like as a kid, I felt the searing self -consciousness.

[288] Yes, it fucked me up.

[289] But then I'm also probably like, no, it's probably standard.

[290] Everyone, yeah.

[291] We all probably are like panicked half the time.

[292] I think especially if you're sensitive, I find that my favorite people, A lot of the times, for some reason, have some anxiety because it makes them really empathetic and sensitive.

[293] The people that are just like, I don't care in the laissez about everything, are more likely to be dick sometimes.

[294] A loop.

[295] Monica and I had this little, it wasn't a riff, but she was using an emoji just for a few weeks.

[296] I think she was trying it out.

[297] Oh, which one was the emoji with a girl, like, throwing her hands up.

[298] Oh, yeah.

[299] I love her.

[300] Which one?

[301] What does she like conjure?

[302] Like, if she's like, I don't know, or is she like, whatever.

[303] After like 20 of these, I told her, I don't like it.

[304] It feels a loose.

[305] like you're over everything.

[306] It hurt his feelings.

[307] Yeah, that that emoji's like, I don't give a fuck.

[308] And I'm like, I don't really want to interact with someone that's going to.

[309] You want like a panicked emoji.

[310] Yeah, it's kind of weird.

[311] It's kind of like you want me to have all this.

[312] I'm kidding.

[313] Yeah, I just don't want you to be over everything.

[314] Like, yeah.

[315] Yeah.

[316] That's how sensitive I am.

[317] That an emoji.

[318] I'm super sensitive.

[319] Whatever.

[320] Sometimes is funny, though, because it depends on what you're, I wasn't saying it.

[321] You were getting pretty rapid fire with it.

[322] I was getting, oh, fast and loose.

[323] Well, I had to test out all.

[324] the iterations of it.

[325] Like, are we meeting at 12?

[326] No, I don't fucking know.

[327] We'll see.

[328] Figure it out.

[329] Okay, I was going to ask this question at the very end, but you just said it.

[330] And I'm curious, if you had to choose, you were all powerful.

[331] Would you have started your career when you did?

[332] Or would you start the full ride you took at this age?

[333] You're 27.

[334] In one year from now is when I started my journey.

[335] You were a full person.

[336] One argument I can make is like, You're already post, you're like, seem to be emotionally and spiritually where I was at at maybe 39, which is kind of cool.

[337] But then I don't know.

[338] What are your thoughts?

[339] I don't think I would have changed when I started because so many parts of my personality today are because of the tools and the skills and some adaptive and some maladaptive.

[340] Oh, I like that word maladaptive.

[341] Mechanisms that I had to develop to survive and thrive.

[342] For example, I'm really into like Buddhism.

[343] That would have never happened because I needed those tools being on.

[344] stage and being calm and being able to pull through, but also it just carries over to other life stuff where I feel like I'm wiser than I would have been.

[345] Yeah, I don't know how you enter into this huge arousal cycle at like 15, where it's like heightened, heightened, heightened, dopamine.

[346] My nervous system is definitely like, oh my God, right?

[347] Poor baby.

[348] In my much more minimal experiences than you've had, it is a very heightened experience.

[349] And then you get into this, I think, dopamine deficit cycle.

[350] When those highs are gone and normal life resumes, it could feel very low.

[351] I mean, to me, it would be so obvious.

[352] You discovered Buddhism because I got to regulate in some way.

[353] Right.

[354] Or the amount of self -growth podcasts, like armchair expert, that I listen to.

[355] But I listen to so many.

[356] That's a maladaptive one.

[357] Yeah, that's a maladaptive one.

[358] There's some adaptive one.

[359] But I listen to a lot of stuff where maybe other people might.

[360] age weren't listening to that.

[361] You grew up fast.

[362] I grew up fast.

[363] But then there's been times, for example, COVID, I learned how to drive and I learned how to cook and I was just living the most normal life.

[364] I don't want anything salacious to come out of this, but also you were like...

[365] I fucking do.

[366] I'm just kidding.

[367] I don't look like this town and pie.

[368] I'm a Nepo baby.

[369] Exactly.

[370] You heard it here first.

[371] Nepo baby from Cuba.

[372] Yeah, exactly.

[373] I don't even know if there's such a thing.

[374] You were having a domestic experience, too, during COVID.

[375] Yes.

[376] Yes, I became a way more well -rounded adult.

[377] I was like, what do I like to do?

[378] I learned how to fucking ride a bike.

[379] I had never ridden a bike before.

[380] Oh, my goodness.

[381] It was literally, what's that movie that Emma Stone is in?

[382] Oh, yes, poor things.

[383] Oh, poor things.

[384] Or Billy Madison, where it's like, what if you went back to fifth grade?

[385] You finally had time to resume ninth grade?

[386] I left in the beginning of 10th grade, so I never had the high school.

[387] My sisters, we're picking up prom dresses for her now.

[388] Wait, Sophia is that young?

[389] My sister's 17.

[390] You know my sister's name?

[391] Did I just tell you?

[392] No, I know it.

[393] Isn't it such fucking legends?

[394] I can't even take it?

[395] I didn't realize there was a 10 -year gap.

[396] Yeah, I know.

[397] So she was born here, obviously, then.

[398] She was born here.

[399] And she is living all the reckless teenagehood that I didn't.

[400] And that I still feel like, do I feel jealous?

[401] There were times where I feel like I had bad.

[402] COVID, I feel like I was just going through a rough time.

[403] My OCD was so bad.

[404] And I felt like my sister was having the best time.

[405] And I was like, the fact that I'm jealous of like 15 -year -old right now.

[406] now is crazy, but I did miss. I'm always looking for that care -freeness and that return to childhood in a way.

[407] Well, let's start at the beginning.

[408] Okay.

[409] Because it's fun and unique.

[410] Let's start with your dad because I want to know what's happening where a man from Mexico City decides to emigrate to Cuba.

[411] My mom emigrated to Mexico.

[412] That makes sense.

[413] Yeah, when she was in her maybe early 20s, she was kind of let down by the revolution.

[414] My grandparents were a part of it.

[415] And then there started to be the power outages and the lack of food.

[416] And that's when she realized, oh, this is not the promise that they sold us.

[417] And so her and her cousin went to Mexico.

[418] And I had one fun thing right there.

[419] Yeah.

[420] I went to Cuba right when you were allowed to.

[421] Kristen was shooting there and I took the babies there.

[422] And we had this amazing, I guess maybe like a fixer.

[423] She was like 27 year old girl, really fucking brilliant.

[424] grew up there, spent her whole life there.

[425] And she was explaining after the revolution, they assigned people housing.

[426] That was the housing.

[427] They weren't building more housing.

[428] So then you just inherited your housing.

[429] So it's like, if your great grandparents got a shitty apartment, that's it for the bloodline.

[430] Right.

[431] And the people that got the really nice house, stuff shit, that's what they got.

[432] It's so fascinating, trying to comprehend a world where it's like, no, this is the family house and that's the only house that's ever going to be.

[433] It's curious.

[434] No matter how hard you work or how smart you are or how high up you get, there is a ceiling.

[435] That's it.

[436] That's the house.

[437] That's the car.

[438] Everybody gets, I can't remember what it was, but it's maybe like four eggs per month or something like that.

[439] There's rations.

[440] And so in the beginning, people started off being like, wow, there's health care for everybody.

[441] Nobody gets left behind.

[442] No homeless people.

[443] Exactly.

[444] So my mom and her cousin go to Mexico.

[445] Really quick.

[446] Was it easy to leave and go to Mexico?

[447] Because you weren't allowed to leave and go to the U .S., right?

[448] You can leave.

[449] I think it would have been hard to come back or something like that.

[450] I get more and more information as I get older.

[451] Immigrant parents are such liars.

[452] It's crazy.

[453] Yeah, they do lie a lot.

[454] They lie so much, right?

[455] They're like, wow.

[456] I didn't know you were fucking married before my dad.

[457] They're crazy.

[458] Oh, wow, secrets.

[459] Things were different then.

[460] I know, yeah.

[461] So many secrets.

[462] So they go to Mexico.

[463] I think my mom was working as, I don't know if she was an architect or a bottle girl.

[464] She was both during her time.

[465] What's that?

[466] But she was trained as an architect in Cuba.

[467] She was trained as an architect in Cuba.

[468] Like, you just bring the bottles to the club.

[469] Oh, like, because my mom was, my mom was and is hot.

[470] I don't doubt it.

[471] Are she and I the same age?

[472] How old are you?

[473] 49.

[474] No, she's older than you.

[475] She's 54.

[476] I'm in.

[477] Rear.

[478] Cool.

[479] You're stacking up a lot of people.

[480] You already have somebody else's mom, too.

[481] I'm an addict.

[482] Do you know that?

[483] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[484] I forget who it was.

[485] Round him up.

[486] Round him up.

[487] Oh, Camilla Mendez.

[488] Yes, whose mom is an airline stewardess.

[489] Right.

[490] And she's not, too.

[491] I said the wrong words.

[492] People will skewer me. Camilla Mendez.

[493] No, I said airline stewardess.

[494] You can't say that.

[495] Oh, you can't.

[496] Apologies.

[497] I didn't know that.

[498] But anyway, she meets my dad.

[499] She's a bottle girl at the club.

[500] My dad is a bartender.

[501] So he's a stud because the bartender's always a stud.

[502] I have to show you a picture of my dad.

[503] Dave him too.

[504] I'll date him too.

[505] All day, great.

[506] Yeah.

[507] More, more, more.

[508] The disease is more.

[509] So they start dating after maybe seven months of being friends.

[510] And my mom in Mexico, she stayed with a family friend from Cuba.

[511] But I'm really proud that I feel like I come from a family of fucking hustlers.

[512] My mom didn't have her period for like eight months because at one point she was living on diet coke and chips for like days and days.

[513] And I love this story about my parents.

[514] My dad while they were dating, he had this watch and he like sold his watch to get her like a bunch of groceries in the fridge.

[515] This was actually before they were dating.

[516] So he just did this as a friend.

[517] Oh, good friend.

[518] So he was always like...

[519] He's a stud and a good guy.

[520] Yeah, good guy, good guy.

[521] So he was always taking care of her.

[522] And so then she got pregnant with me, I think maybe like in the first year that they were dating.

[523] No judgment.

[524] I didn't mean that with judgment.

[525] Within the first year.

[526] And so then my dad traveled from Mexico to Cuba with me. So you were born in Mexico?

[527] No, I was born in Cuba.

[528] Sorry.

[529] Yeah, I skipped some chapters.

[530] But yeah, they would go from Cuba to Mexico.

[531] I went to school in Mexico too.

[532] And then mom takes you when you're six to Miami, Florida, under the false pretense that you're going to Disney World.

[533] Exactly.

[534] What?

[535] More lies.

[536] How long did it take before you actually went to Disney World?

[537] A year.

[538] That's not terrible.

[539] Although when you're six, that's 20 % of your life.

[540] Yeah, I'm like, when is it?

[541] Wait, so she takes you there.

[542] What happened?

[543] Because the mom's a hustler.

[544] So the mom's in Cuba.

[545] She's like, fuck this.

[546] Let's go check out Mexico City.

[547] Still not good enough for me. Let's go to Miami.

[548] Yeah, she was just like, this ain't it.

[549] But yeah, I think she was just like, I want to go to the fucking United States.

[550] Yes, of course, yeah.

[551] The land of hustlers.

[552] The land of hustlers.

[553] Let's get it done.

[554] And you go and you end up staying with grandfather's colleague friend and you live with her who becomes godmother.

[555] Yes.

[556] My goodness.

[557] My lord.

[558] He done did a deep dive on the fam.

[559] So we stayed there for a month in a room in her house and my dad had not yet.

[560] 18 months for him.

[561] He's got to wait a year and a half.

[562] Yes.

[563] Oh, because of a visa situation?

[564] Bitch, I don't know.

[565] I really heard so much.

[566] It's hard to your business.

[567] You'll find out in 15 years.

[568] Yeah, she'll tell me at some point.

[569] Not even.

[570] It will just come out through somebody else asking her a question.

[571] So then she started working at Marshalls and started going like night school, taking English classes.

[572] And we got our own apartment.

[573] And then a year later, I had this little Disney calendar where I would cross the X's until when my dad would come.

[574] And my dad told me this.

[575] He was like, when I first got there, you wouldn't talk.

[576] Like, you were so shy.

[577] I feel like this is such a kid thing to happen.

[578] You're like, I'm so excited to see my dad.

[579] I'm so excited to see my dad.

[580] And then my dad came and I didn't know how to talk to him because it had been so long.

[581] Because you're right.

[582] At that age, one year is one seventh of your life.

[583] Yeah.

[584] And it was a year and a half of my facts are right.

[585] So we're talking like a fifth of your life.

[586] I wonder if something more happened.

[587] Did you happen to listen to the Gabor Mote episode?

[588] Yes, I probably did.

[589] And I fucking love Gabor Mote.

[590] See, like, if I hadn't started in this industry at 15, would not know Gabor Mott.

[591] No way.

[592] Exactly.

[593] There's no way.

[594] I was 48.

[595] when I learned of God war.

[596] I fucking needed him.

[597] But he tells the story of having been separated to evade Nazi capture, then reunited with his mom.

[598] And then even as like a one and a half year old child, was I seen out mom as this protective thing of, I'm not going to trust you again because you're going to go.

[599] I'm not going to go through that again.

[600] So I do wonder even if it was like excitement, excitement, excitement, he's here.

[601] Oh my God, can I trust myself to reattach?

[602] Exactly.

[603] Or is he going to bounce?

[604] And I feel like there's probably so much.

[605] many ways in which immigrant kids carry that stuff in our bodies when we're older, that instability.

[606] It gets passed down.

[607] I just had therapy about this because I was home.

[608] I mean home.

[609] I was with my parents recently.

[610] And the last day of the trip, I was so anxious.

[611] I was like, what's going on?

[612] Why am I so anxious?

[613] And I get anxious around them a lot.

[614] But I was talking to my therapist.

[615] And I was like, I guess I feel like how are they surviving?

[616] Like, are they okay?

[617] They're in this world of white people.

[618] I mean, it's just deep.

[619] I'm not.

[620] thinking that consciously that they're in this world of white people.

[621] It's just a feeling.

[622] It's just a feeling.

[623] And my dad was like, well, what do we do about the ballet?

[624] Where do we park?

[625] And I was like, it's like, what?

[626] It's like, it's fine.

[627] Yeah, so it's like, what do you mean?

[628] What?

[629] It's fine.

[630] Why is this so stressful?

[631] And then I was realizing, well, I need to say that to myself.

[632] Why is this so stressful for me?

[633] Yeah.

[634] And it's because every time they don't know what's going on, I feel like they're going to die.

[635] Like, how can they survive in this country?

[636] Like they're exposing them as being other when they don't understand these.

[637] Yeah, and it has nothing to do with that, but I take everything like that.

[638] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[639] You carry so much of that as well, I assume.

[640] Yeah.

[641] Now, and I'm not trying to make you cry, but I think when you're 27, I'm assuming you don't have a terribly clear memory of being separated for that year and half.

[642] But it's part of your story and it's like, oh, yeah, it's just a piece of your story.

[643] But I can tell you as someone who has an eight -year -old and an 11 -year -old, if they hadn't seen me at six for a year and a half, it would have a big effect on them, especially if you're a daddy's, girl.

[644] I'm such a daddy's girl.

[645] Then, yeah, it had to be a very disruptive bit of time.

[646] It's crazy because I think my brain is like anything that feels emotionally traumatic, I just black it out.

[647] I don't remember some chunks of my life.

[648] Yeah.

[649] To be honest.

[650] We just had a memory person on and he was talking about that.

[651] Really?

[652] Does that happen?

[653] Yeah, and there's some conscious choosing of what you keep at the forefront.

[654] My brain is so excellent at that.

[655] Similarly, we learn which is so fascinating is your memories are altered by what perspective you're currently in when you look back on the memory.

[656] So if you're sad, you're going to kind of more dial into those.

[657] If you're happy, you'll remember more happy.

[658] It's as subjective as the conscious experiences, of course.

[659] So, yeah, it's hard to really know what the actual truth is.

[660] Which is so relieving, actually.

[661] I definitely had the habit of going back and trying to just figure out, not from childhood, but adolescence, what was right and what was wrong.

[662] And there's like something so freeing about being like, I don't fucking know.

[663] I'm never going to be able to objectively.

[664] Assess it all.

[665] It like always brings you back to there's no choice but to just fucking be present.

[666] When your memories start, mine start in second grade, if I'm being honest.

[667] I have little glimpses, but from probably second grade out and I have a pretty good picture.

[668] I have some sensory little sparks of things.

[669] Our house in Cuba or certain smells will be like, whoa, I really remember this.

[670] But I feel like the first visual memory is first grade when it was like the first time I liked a boy.

[671] And I remember seeing him.

[672] And I remember exactly what this little boy's face looks like.

[673] But again, look it.

[674] I mean, it's so fucking basic, too.

[675] It's like, you miss dad.

[676] You miss the male attention or the malness.

[677] And then at first grade already, you're like, oh, boy energy.

[678] Yes.

[679] I always, in any guy that I am pursuing, if they have any dad like qualities, somebody like my dad, I'm in love with them.

[680] Like, I'm always looking for somebody like my dad.

[681] But I also think he's the best person.

[682] I remember, I think you had Gwynethon and she always talks about how she was like in love with her dad.

[683] I'm just like, I want a man. exactly like my dad.

[684] Maybe not exactly, but...

[685] Sure, the 2 .0 version of dad.

[686] Yeah, 2 .24 version.

[687] Yeah.

[688] You know, I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know the exact sentence because I happened to be behind her on an airplane randomly coming home from Nashville on Easter, and she was directly in front of me, and I leaned over, I was chatting with her, and I said, when you said, everyone has a father, but if you're lucky, you get a daddy.

[689] I remember that.

[690] But it wasn't here, she said that.

[691] I have to be...

[692] It wasn't here.

[693] Right, she said it on.

[694] stern and then we talked about it on here.

[695] But I remember you talked about it on here.

[696] Yeah, and as I'm saying, Daddy, I'm fucking crying.

[697] And I'm sitting next to my nine -year -old while I'm saying it.

[698] But yes, I couldn't agree more.

[699] Same.

[700] Love everyone that was like my mom.

[701] Anyone that was like my mom, I dated for a very long time.

[702] Yeah.

[703] I've definitely dated guys like that, for sure.

[704] Okay, so you're a boy crazy from first grade.

[705] Yeah.

[706] And then when do you start singing?

[707] When do you know that you have a good voice?

[708] What pocket of Miami are you in?

[709] Are you in a very Latin -heavy area?

[710] Are you feeling that Miami vibe?

[711] We moved around, but we moved into this apartment complex.

[712] And the first friend that I ever made in the United States was because we had this boombox and I would bring CDs and we would just listen to music.

[713] And then we pretended we were in a girl group.

[714] Like my first friends that I made were always because of singing in music.

[715] So anytime somebody asked me, when did you start singing?

[716] I can't pinpoint music was my number one joy.

[717] When is the moment that either your parent or someone you admire says, oh, you're actually good at it.

[718] When you go from like, I sing because I like it and I'm happy to wait, I actually have this skill.

[719] I think my friends when I was in elementary school, I remember high school musical had come out and I would bring my high school musical CD and I would play the CD and I would try to hit the high notes.

[720] And like my friends would be like, wow, that was like really good.

[721] Yeah, yeah.

[722] And I don't know if you had this experience, but singing was like its own form of power currency in elementary school.

[723] Like I feel like everybody wanted to be a singer.

[724] Everybody wanted to be on the fucking Disney channel.

[725] You guys are also kind of close to the.

[726] the source of the fire.

[727] They're doing a lot of that shit in Orlando.

[728] Delicious.

[729] I'm sorry.

[730] That's so good.

[731] I know.

[732] We always feel perverted telling you the name of it, but that is a cream top.

[733] Wow.

[734] Yeah, this is a cream fucking top.

[735] They need to change it.

[736] I don't know.

[737] It's working.

[738] They can't sell them fast enough.

[739] Wow.

[740] How do we get from elementary, wow, I can hit the high notes.

[741] Oh, everyone's kind of into this.

[742] Oh, this is cool.

[743] I got a superpower to auditioning for X Factor.

[744] Yeah.

[745] Even when I was like in ninth grade and when I was in middle school, I just wasn't going out and hanging out with people and partying.

[746] My summers were going on YouTube, looking up the instrumentals of songs, and singing.

[747] I got more and more obsessed.

[748] This is what I like to do more than anything.

[749] And I was a really big pop culture fan, even when I was little, I had a Justin Bieber phase, I had a One Direction phase, I had a Taylor Swift phase.

[750] Some of these phases are ongoing.

[751] I was about to say, yeah, I was going to say earmarked Taylor Swift because it's crazy to have a phase and then open for her.

[752] Exactly.

[753] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[754] Oh my God.

[755] I know.

[756] Yeah, that was fucking crazy.

[757] There have been so many moments that have been like that for me where I'm just like, I just can't.

[758] Do you have a hard time internalizing them when they're happening?

[759] Yeah, and sometimes I feel like I can't.

[760] I bet you guys feel like this.

[761] Like, if you're favorite person in the world that's sitting right in front of you on this couch.

[762] Camila, for me. Sure.

[763] Yeah, whatever.

[764] Matt Damon.

[765] I can be honest.

[766] I can't be honest.

[767] What'd you say?

[768] I said Matt Damon.

[769] I can be honest.

[770] Right.

[771] If Matt Damon is here, you're not going to watch like five Matt Damon movies the night before because you can't.

[772] You'd explode.

[773] I just did Coachella with Long.

[774] I've been telling people.

[775] Oh, I haven't been telling people.

[776] I told one person.

[777] Tell us.

[778] Tell us.

[779] I've been telling many people.

[780] I've been telling many people.

[781] I had to not listen to her music for like four days because I can't be a fan.

[782] Yeah.

[783] Yes.

[784] Being a fan is tricky.

[785] Problematic for performance.

[786] It is.

[787] Yeah, I had to do that with Letterman.

[788] I had to do 10 days with my therapist of going life.

[789] I love the 10 days with your therapist.

[790] That is so real.

[791] Yeah, like I got to walk in there as for this 90 minutes as a peer.

[792] But sometimes I try to, and this is the Buddhism thing is right now, I just had a moment where I was like, wow, really fucking take this in.

[793] You've been listening to this podcast, and now you know what the inside of this room looks like.

[794] Nobody really, like, you guys don't take pictures in this room.

[795] Well, we do for the social, but you obviously, I'm still the biggest fan.

[796] You know, obviously don't follow us on Instagram.

[797] I actually do.

[798] I've never seen this room in here, though.

[799] It's really such a nice vibe.

[800] I love it here.

[801] I like don't want to leave.

[802] You chose to not wear headphones.

[803] Explain that to me. I feel like I'm a little bit of a sensory overload.

[804] person.

[805] Yeah, I could see that.

[806] You can see that, right?

[807] I have not let go of this chapstick.

[808] I know.

[809] I kind of want you to vape.

[810] I mean, I don't want it for your help.

[811] My dad vapes.

[812] My dad's.

[813] Yeah, yeah, of course, because she's happening.

[814] It's fun.

[815] I know.

[816] Like, if I started hearing my, like, I would just.

[817] Monica is so embarrassed for her dad right now.

[818] I love it.

[819] Wait, wait, what?

[820] I miss this thing.

[821] I was like, yeah, because that's fun.

[822] And she looked at me like, dad, stop trying to act young.

[823] Then I recognize, oh, I'm embarrassing, Monica, which can be a very fun thing.

[824] And I start leaning into it.

[825] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[826] Yeah, yeah.

[827] So you vape.

[828] I did.

[829] I had a phase.

[830] I smoked forever.

[831] I was a smoker.

[832] I haven't smoked for 19 years.

[833] And then in COVID, best friend Aaron Weekly was visiting.

[834] Aaron Weekly.

[835] Shout out, Aaron Weekly.

[836] Boom.

[837] He was smoking darts, blowing camels up on a vacation.

[838] And it was the first time I ever wanted it.

[839] And I was like, well, I can't smoke.

[840] And then her friend Matt had vape.

[841] Well, I'll do that for a week.

[842] Cut to a year and a half later.

[843] I had to quit that.

[844] Well, I haven't for a while, though.

[845] My dad does it because it just really calms him down.

[846] Does it really calm you down?

[847] Yeah.

[848] I can't tell if I have an addictive personality or not.

[849] Well, I want to get into that.

[850] I think I do have an addictive personality.

[851] But I think I think.

[852] Because I started so young and X -Factor and whatever, I think I have a very, like, military discipline.

[853] I'm very disciplined.

[854] So I smoked a cigarette in Paris, and I fucking loved it.

[855] Sure.

[856] It's the perfect place to smoke.

[857] It tasted so good with the espresso.

[858] And, like, because of that, I was like, I can't do this every now and then.

[859] Stay tuned for more of FireMchair Expert, if you dare.

[860] What's up, guys?

[861] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast.

[862] is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[863] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[864] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[865] And I don't mean just friends.

[866] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[867] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[868] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[869] We've all been there.

[870] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[871] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[872] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[873] Hey, listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[874] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[875] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[876] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[877] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[878] I keep interrupting you.

[879] I really want to apologize, but I'm very excited.

[880] First of all, I'm Cuban.

[881] Okay.

[882] It's all interrupting.

[883] You spit it.

[884] Yeah.

[885] So my daughters were making fun of me yesterday.

[886] Yesterday, because I told them I was interviewing you, because I knew they would be excited, and I was trying to steal your cultural capital to make them like me. As you should.

[887] Yes, and I was pronouncing Camila a little off.

[888] And then on the same day, this is yesterday, my one daughter said, how do you say that word?

[889] Because on the radio, there's a song called Espresso by.

[890] Oh, Sabrina Carpenter.

[891] Sabrina Carbender.

[892] Yes, yes.

[893] And then my daughter said, pronounce that word, and I said, espresso.

[894] And she said, but do people say espresso?

[895] And I said, yeah, people say espresso.

[896] People like me say espresso.

[897] Oh, interesting.

[898] Even though it's wrong.

[899] And so the joke yesterday was they told me I should say, would you like an espresso Camilla?

[900] So I could fuck up both things at once.

[901] Expresso Camilla.

[902] And then, yes, and you just said you were drinking espresso.

[903] And I just thought, that's impossible.

[904] You, on your own, brought up espresso.

[905] When they told me, I had to say to you an espresso wrong.

[906] That's a co -winkie ding.

[907] That was a zap to my brain.

[908] Whoa.

[909] Okay, now, so you smoked that one cigarette.

[910] And then were you inclined to do it again when you got home?

[911] I always do.

[912] I miss cigarettes.

[913] You do.

[914] Like, I'm a smoker, and I never, never have.

[915] But here's what I would say that's kind of parallel with the addiction and the OCD is, you're spending your summer as a kid in your room listening to YouTube.

[916] You fucking busted me. Right.

[917] Also, I think where it parallels addiction is like, you did that once, it gave you a feeling.

[918] Yeah, no, you're right.

[919] My therapist would say we actually don't even call it OCD.

[920] We call it obsessionality.

[921] Oh, okay.

[922] Oh, that's fun.

[923] Because why?

[924] I don't even know.

[925] I think something about.

[926] Oh, OCD, just that.

[927] Oh, because it has disordering in it?

[928] Yeah, it's triggering for me for some reason.

[929] Just you have an obsessive nature.

[930] I have an obsessive nature.

[931] Which is a superpower.

[932] It really is.

[933] You've got to learn to wield that sword.

[934] 100 %.

[935] 100 p. Yeah, you're right.

[936] Part of me is like, stop trying to euphemize everything.

[937] But at the same time...

[938] What does euphemize mean again?

[939] It means like make it sound better than it is.

[940] Yeah.

[941] She had a strong smell.

[942] She smelled like shit.

[943] Yeah, but...

[944] That's a euphemism.

[945] Okay.

[946] What?

[947] That you should use a euphemism if someone smells like.

[948] She's in the room.

[949] She's not in the room.

[950] You can say she smells like shit.

[951] I guess.

[952] That's right.

[953] I guess.

[954] Yes.

[955] We can be honest amongst ourselves.

[956] Yeah, amongst ourselves for sure.

[957] But I don't know that we need to euvomize every single thing.

[958] And it is weird to call OCD a disorder because it's a personality type and it's super beneficial.

[959] And I also think there are some things that don't fit into neatly labeled boxes.

[960] Like sometimes it is just you're being obsessive.

[961] It's not necessarily obsessive, compulsive death or.

[962] Or pathological.

[963] Yeah, because then it's placebo effect.

[964] And you start.

[965] start giving yourself symptoms that you didn't even have.

[966] But when I was younger, I definitely did have fucking textbooks.

[967] Did you have tics?

[968] Yes.

[969] Hug my parents for 11 seconds or else they'll die.

[970] Oh.

[971] Pray to God, then kiss your fingers three times or else you have cancer.

[972] Like, all of that.

[973] Just adorable stuff.

[974] Yeah, why do we do that?

[975] I had one time where I was in seventh grade, I got my period.

[976] Then I didn't have it for a year.

[977] And I thought I was the Virgin Mary.

[978] Oh, my God.

[979] No wonder you and Liz are friends.

[980] Yeah.

[981] That's so.

[982] And then it was the whole neurosis.

[983] I would just like pray every night for God to take away the new Jesus Christ that was being born in me. Oh, you didn't want to be the new virgin.

[984] No, no one wants that.

[985] It's time consuming motherhood.

[986] It's too much responsibility.

[987] Too much for a seventh grader.

[988] You got to guide this.

[989] Messiah.

[990] No, totally.

[991] Not me, God, please.

[992] Yeah, it's like, I'm stressed out because I think my kids have the potential to be good singers.

[993] I hope we get them there.

[994] Or writers, but not the Messiah.

[995] Oh, wait, wait.

[996] I have a question for you.

[997] Yeah.

[998] So my mom is like, I really hope my sister isn't, you know, the industry.

[999] Are you like, I hope they're not?

[1000] Or are you like, no, I hope they are because they'll have somebody great to guide them.

[1001] Well, what I think is I don't want them to do it as children.

[1002] It's really important.

[1003] Yeah, I just want them to have stuff to draw on.

[1004] I want them to fuck around in New York for two years without thinking about people.

[1005] Like if they're going to be filming them.

[1006] Fuck up pretty big time.

[1007] No, fuck up.

[1008] I just started giving myself permission to fuck up literally a year and a half ago.

[1009] Right.

[1010] Before that, it was like every mistake I made, I would just punish myself.

[1011] I was so hard on myself.

[1012] world was watching you.

[1013] It wasn't even in your head.

[1014] It was a reality.

[1015] But so I would like them to have childhoods, but I do have a lot of friends that don't want their kids to go into it even as adults.

[1016] And I'm like, I'm sorry, I washed cars for fucking 16 years.

[1017] What job do you think is more pleasant?

[1018] You what for 16 years?

[1019] I know your father and I have this in common.

[1020] I watched cars.

[1021] I detailed cars from 14, I guess I just exaggerated.

[1022] 14 to 28.

[1023] So 14 years, I watched tens of thousands of cars.

[1024] Right, because this is so cute, Monica.

[1025] The mom who had been trained as an architect who came to America and worked at Marshals, ended up taking a job working at an architect firm because she knew AutoCAD.

[1026] She taught herself AutoCAD.

[1027] And then the dad and the mom formed a construction company named after the little girls.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] And then had a family business construction company.

[1030] Oh my God.

[1031] That's incredible.

[1032] And I think this is also like an immigrant parent.

[1033] Like even now, my mom cannot fucking sit still.

[1034] Yes.

[1035] She just has to always like going.

[1036] But wait, talking about the industry, I agree with you.

[1037] Like go say words in front of a Cameron hang with a bunch of creative people?

[1038] How could that not be great?

[1039] I feel really lucky that I've held on to the sacredness of what made me get here in the field.

[1040] Like, I love music and art so much.

[1041] If anything, I love it more and more, the more I'm exposed to things.

[1042] I watch an amazing movie or I read an amazing book or I listen to an amazing album.

[1043] And sometimes it's frustrating because I do feel like there's a big difference between like commerce and art. Actually, by the way, you know what?

[1044] Let me go back.

[1045] I'm not trying to sound like a pretentious dick, douchebag.

[1046] But I'm saying it's different.

[1047] And doing something that you love for work has its own trickery because you find yourself being like, well, I want to succeed in the business sense.

[1048] But at the same time, I never want to lose the childlike integrity of why I do things.

[1049] Don't you think you're dancing with the devil?

[1050] And that what you don't want to do is make your art service the commerce because you're afraid that it'll no longer be art. That's what I'm trying to say.

[1051] I'm not trying to sound like I'm fucking like Michael Angelo.

[1052] You should want the success.

[1053] But you're trying to prevent yourself from letting it guide your artistic outcome.

[1054] Yes.

[1055] It's hard.

[1056] I've done that for 95 % of my career, which is really good.

[1057] That's huge.

[1058] It's a really good batting average.

[1059] And I feel like now, for example, in this last album, 100%.

[1060] I never ever did anything that I'm not obsessed with.

[1061] I love it, I love it, I love it.

[1062] That's the song.

[1063] You knew that.

[1064] So young, Monica.

[1065] Watch out.

[1066] I'm younger than you right now.

[1067] Take a hit of your babe after you say that.

[1068] I am really delighted to hear you say that because I do think what could happen starting at 15 and it being professional since 15 is you could kind of be like an Olympic.

[1069] where you fall in love with a sport and then the sport becomes everything and then you don't enjoy doing the sporting more no there can be something fun to the competitive aspect of it too for sure but sometimes I feel it in myself and I'm like the competitive thing has to take a back seat and you have to get back to joy again that's another thing I don't think it's black and white I don't think it's like don't be competitive or not it's like what's the ratio that you don't feel sick about yourself or disappointed and it's constant I love this meditation that I did once where it's like life is like riding a bike and you're constantly micro -balancing.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] Like you're constantly like, ooh, little more weight here, just tiny adjustments.

[1072] Did you do the meditation after COVID when you learned to ride a bike?

[1073] Before that, that would have been very confused.

[1074] It would have been a bad metaphor.

[1075] What are they talking about?

[1076] I thought it was all about pedaling.

[1077] I think the zone is like, I want to win, but I'm not rooting for someone to fail.

[1078] That's like the line.

[1079] I'm not actually seeking someone to fail, but I am seeking to win.

[1080] And I think that's something we don't practice a lot in our culture.

[1081] Like, any time I catch myself feeling jealous of someone.

[1082] I did this last night, I practiced genuinely trying to find the space where I feel happy for them.

[1083] Who are you jealous of?

[1084] Because that's really hard to believe.

[1085] I'll list some of people I'm jealous of it.

[1086] Okay, go.

[1087] Vince Vaughn still, to this day.

[1088] I get jealous whenever I feel like they're having their moment and I want to fucking have my moment.

[1089] Well, like, how could you be a performer and not be jealous of Taylor Swift?

[1090] Taylor is a little different, though, because Vince Vaughn is your contemporary.

[1091] Taylor, I don't feel like is like.

[1092] my contemporaries.

[1093] She was like before me. That makes sense.

[1094] It'd be like me being jealous of Bill Murray.

[1095] Right.

[1096] That's probably not even good reference for you.

[1097] No, like obviously he's the goat.

[1098] Not going to be jealous of him.

[1099] And he's 15 years ahead of me or whatever.

[1100] It's more like your contemporaries where you're like, fuck, I want what she's having.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] I do think there is a competitive drive that is important and fun.

[1103] It's like why I love sports documentary.

[1104] He's like I love Kobe Bryant muse.

[1105] This is telling of you.

[1106] It really is.

[1107] That informed a lot of my teenage years.

[1108] Do you harness Black Mamba?

[1109] I did for sure.

[1110] You know what that means, Monica?

[1111] No. So he was beloved.

[1112] Then he had legal troubles, accused of rape.

[1113] Needs to be said he was not convicted of that for this conversation.

[1114] But everywhere he went, people started booing him.

[1115] And it was like a huge 180 of his experience.

[1116] And at some point, it was like either going to kill him or he said, do you know what?

[1117] Now I'm Black Mamba.

[1118] Fuck it.

[1119] Let's go.

[1120] And he actually thrived on going into Denver and having them boo and be like, I'm going to shut these motherfuckers out.

[1121] I think Beyonce has a similar thing where I've heard her say, not personally to me. She said when she's angry It makes her a better performer Makes for a better show Which is maybe maladaptive I would argue it's adaptive I think it's adaptive There's a positive outcome Out of something negative That's adaptive I think you're right If you turn something good Into a negative That feels madamehap But there is a very powerful energy Behind anger or sadness or rage And it's huge Yes there's like sexual Yes And then there's justice in revenge And they're huge Yes You know what There's times where I remember this performance that I did singing to my dad, the first man performance.

[1122] I will say, I think love is a huge energy source.

[1123] I remember being like, fuck whoever's in these first few rows, this is for my family.

[1124] And that shit, my hand was so steady because that energy is so strong.

[1125] But that's adaptive.

[1126] We all do it.

[1127] We all use like anger and revenge.

[1128] We can use it positively.

[1129] I do think that would technically fall in a maladaptive category.

[1130] I think the Black Mamba stuff was more in my teenage years when I was struggling a little bit more.

[1131] The group stuff was hard.

[1132] Everything was hard.

[1133] I felt misunderstood sometimes.

[1134] Like, it was just all fucking hard.

[1135] And that was my way of releasing that, was harnessing that.

[1136] But now I don't draw from that place as much.

[1137] Yeah, you're right.

[1138] Again, everything's in moderation.

[1139] I do hear a lot of people tell their story, and so many people's story involves, they told me I would never blank.

[1140] And I'm like, who?

[1141] It's like 80 % of people's stories like, they told me I would never, but who's they?

[1142] I think a lot of people invent the they that told them they couldn't do it.

[1143] I think that they is actually themselves were terrified they couldn't do it.

[1144] And others is this kind of fictitious they that said they couldn't do it.

[1145] I find myself doing that sometimes.

[1146] And then I remind myself, it's never as personal as you think it is.

[1147] Exactly.

[1148] And it's like maybe they just didn't see it because they weren't seeing it that particular Monday.

[1149] But you're giving so much energy to that.

[1150] They just went and had breakfast after that.

[1151] It's just never that personal.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] So, okay, you go to X Factor.

[1154] You go through the process.

[1155] They don't air your thing, which is interesting.

[1156] They couldn't get the rights for respect.

[1157] You sang Aretha.

[1158] Franklin's respect.

[1159] What a swing for the fences.

[1160] Oh, my God.

[1161] Well, I made it the poppy version.

[1162] Okay, go ahead and sing it for me now.

[1163] I don't mind if you do.

[1164] That's all I'll do because I haven't fucking warmed up.

[1165] You're supposed to then go, uh, definitely not a choice I would have made now.

[1166] I was fucking bold as hell.

[1167] Yeah, I love it.

[1168] Jesus Christ.

[1169] I just was like nobody's going to sing this song.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] In this way.

[1172] When they didn't air my audition, that started building my underdog story for sure.

[1173] I was like, they didn't believe in me. Now come to find out, like, six years later, no, they just didn't have the rights.

[1174] They can't afford the rights to respect.

[1175] Yeah, like it wasn't personal bitch.

[1176] So they didn't ever going through the audition process, but you go to boot camp and then you get bounced out of boot camp.

[1177] Your story ends on X Factor at boot camp, but then they bring you back and they bring you back with four other people.

[1178] Yep.

[1179] Monica, I did not know this story until today.

[1180] They bring her back with four other people randomly paired and they prefer.

[1181] And that becomes Fifth Harmony.

[1182] Whoa, the random group?

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] Did you think we knew each other before?

[1185] I assume that with all of these groups and it's never that way.

[1186] Like Spice Girls was placed together and even more and more now with the K -pop groups and stuff.

[1187] It's such a fascinating dynamic to do that.

[1188] Because if you look at all the great bands that historically have existed, it's like two or three of them all went to height.

[1189] Like you look at Led Zeppelin, people knew each other.

[1190] Chili Peppers, they're best friends, and they perform a band.

[1191] But in the band, everybody had their role.

[1192] There wasn't like five lead singers.

[1193] Exactly.

[1194] That's another insane dynamic.

[1195] Five lead guitar players or something.

[1196] I think that's probably why those bands were more sustainable.

[1197] Durable, yeah.

[1198] So you were 15.

[1199] What were the age of the other four?

[1200] I believe it was 15, 15 a few months younger, maybe like 16, 17, and 20.

[1201] So it's not like you were 15 and they were all 18.

[1202] So it was a little smattering of ages.

[1203] You were older than one person and then three were older than you.

[1204] Yep.

[1205] Also, it's a unique moment to fuse you guys because you have all just, I hate to use the word failed, but you guys all came there with a dream and then that was shut down.

[1206] And then now this is this weird second chance.

[1207] And so I would imagine that's an interesting dynamic.

[1208] I was such a big One Direction fan that I was kind of like, whoa, this is crazy.

[1209] I'm living this reality.

[1210] So were you immediately kind of embracing of it?

[1211] Oh, I was immediately embracing of it.

[1212] I was like, this shit is fire.

[1213] In elementary school, I always.

[1214] pretended to be in girl groups with my friends.

[1215] I was like literally in four girl groups, but four, fifth harmony made of like seven -year -olds.

[1216] But out of five people, there's no way all five had that same.

[1217] No, no, no, no, no. All right, and we don't have to name any names.

[1218] I have no, no, no, no, no interest in creating drama.

[1219] There was definitely reactions for sure, understandably.

[1220] I mean, I think I was lucky.

[1221] I was already a One Direction fan.

[1222] I was just crushed that I wasn't going to keep going.

[1223] This was the closest proximity I had to actually doing this.

[1224] In your mind, this was the one shot you'll ever have in your life.

[1225] Yeah, so I was like, I'm going home now, hell no. I'll be fucking janitor here if you want me to.

[1226] I was just happy to be back.

[1227] And also, to be honest, the One Direction thing, I was like, wow, this is so sick.

[1228] So I was really happy.

[1229] And then you obviously, you guys hit the chemistry lottery in that as a group.

[1230] It immediately works.

[1231] That's also one in a million.

[1232] It really is.

[1233] And even seeing stuff, because there was like a brief moment on TikTok, I guess, where there was a bunch of videos of us coming back.

[1234] And I was like, wow, yeah, I could see how, as a fan, it's really interesting to see like five totally different personalities.

[1235] It's a crazy social experiment.

[1236] It is.

[1237] Yeah, it's like Big Brother or something.

[1238] Yeah, it was definitely not boring.

[1239] How immediate was it?

[1240] Should I put these on or no?

[1241] What's the only if you like?

[1242] Do you like it?

[1243] I actually really like it.

[1244] Well, you know why I was going to say you might?

[1245] Because it actually limits the amount of stimuli.

[1246] No, I actually really like it.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] Does this sound good your voice sounds?

[1249] It's like making me want to talk more.

[1250] Like I like it.

[1251] Same, same, same.

[1252] How immediate is that first performance on X Factor to you guys have songs in your touring?

[1253] Shit, you're really making me draw on the memory bank This is where I definitely have some gaps here But we went right into it We were non -stop working for like five years I think we maybe had 15 days for Christmas break Every year and besides that We was working I think right from X Factor Yeah, that's 2012 And then by 2013 you have an album We went right into the studio And how big are the shows you guys were playing at that time We were like in malls Oh yes What was that like?

[1254] Was it fun or humbling?

[1255] People who saw you like It's hilarious.

[1256] Yeah, literally just giving our all with fucking Forever 21 in the background.

[1257] Sunglass, mobile kiosk behind you.

[1258] Yeah, literally.

[1259] What did it grow to, though?

[1260] The size of the venues you were playing.

[1261] Some arenas.

[1262] And everyone's parents are with them during these tours?

[1263] When we were minors, there was all parents.

[1264] And then there was a point where there was like two parents at a time.

[1265] It was capped.

[1266] It was capped.

[1267] Probably for fucking budget reasons.

[1268] Like just hotel rooms.

[1269] At any point did you start getting, I think it would be insane.

[1270] excitement and then at some point I'd be like, hmm, somebody's making a lot of money around here.

[1271] Did that ever click to you?

[1272] We actually always made the same amount.

[1273] I'm more mean whoever's on top of all this.

[1274] Oh, oh, oh, oh.

[1275] The promoters, not that band members.

[1276] Right, right, right, more like the Simon Cowles and the LA Reeds and the promoters and all that.

[1277] Maybe some parents were smart enough to figure that out, honestly, until maybe the past few years, I just never really thought about money.

[1278] This is Monica's gift.

[1279] Well, but also, because you're doing the thing you like.

[1280] We all were, I think, the currency of that time when you're a teenager is not money, it's fame, power, ego, how people look at you.

[1281] So I think that was the currency that we were all focused on.

[1282] How was your ego doing at 15, 16, 17, 17, 18 with that amount of attention and approval?

[1283] Be honest.

[1284] I would have been a monster.

[1285] Well, tell me specifically, You mean, like, how was your ego as if I was fucking like, yeah, I'm the shit?

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] No, I truly was not like, yeah, I'm the shit.

[1288] It was definitely competitive, for sure.

[1289] You wanted to be the best singer in the group?

[1290] Yeah, I wanted to be the best.

[1291] I think everybody did.

[1292] Sure.

[1293] It's designed.

[1294] Wanted them to clap the loudest.

[1295] Yeah, I wanted them to clap the loudest.

[1296] I wanted to be the most loved.

[1297] Yeah.

[1298] How could you not?

[1299] The weird thing, can I just add one thing that I think is really interesting and it's a gender dynamic?

[1300] As a girl, you're already beautiful.

[1301] So, like, guys are an option.

[1302] I think when you're a boy and you get in that situation, you're like, hold on a second, And every girl here likes me, that's a very powerful elixir.

[1303] I think that's where I would have destroyed myself at a young age.

[1304] Girls don't have groupies like guys do, though.

[1305] They don't?

[1306] No. The people that are coming to the shows are girls and gays.

[1307] Ah, girls and gays.

[1308] Yeah, G's and G's.

[1309] So we're not like really getting groupies like that.

[1310] We're getting maybe one or two hot, famous people that slide into your DMs.

[1311] Okay.

[1312] You live for those one or two people.

[1313] You're like, oh my God, this is all I'm going to.

[1314] Like, it is fucking slim picking.

[1315] out here.

[1316] But they're not coming to the concert because in the patriarchy, they're not going to show up at this like a bunch of powerful girls.

[1317] Unless they're smashing.

[1318] Well, unless they're smart, but they aren't.

[1319] It's so hard in that dynamic to even admit, yeah, of course I wanted to be the best.

[1320] Of course I wanted the most applause.

[1321] Because I felt the demographic at times could be very toxic and they would be like, how dare she want to be the best?

[1322] How dare she want the most applause?

[1323] Fucking bitch.

[1324] And it's like, well, I'm sorry.

[1325] I'm human.

[1326] We all did.

[1327] They designed it that way.

[1328] I mean, five beautiful girls who can sing.

[1329] Of course.

[1330] It'd be crazy if you were all at that age, like, yeah, we're super happy to completely share this.

[1331] Yeah, I'm sorry, it was before we had our prefrontal cortex.

[1332] If it wasn't formed, yes, yes, yes.

[1333] I do wonder, also, you're from a very individualistic society, which is very well studied and documented.

[1334] I do wonder if these Korean bands that are, they might be more well positioned in a collectivist society to deal with that better.

[1335] You're supposed to win everything you do.

[1336] I know.

[1337] And also how people react.

[1338] There's always, who's your fave?

[1339] Who's the best?

[1340] I think we all felt like, I want to be your fay.

[1341] You just want love.

[1342] It equates to acceptance, which is the nice thing we really want.

[1343] 100 p. And you're also selling merch, I imagine, like individual merch.

[1344] That could be track.

[1345] No, no, no, no way.

[1346] That would have been a fucking night back.

[1347] Yeah, that's bad.

[1348] If you were like selling 10X of your t -shirts to other members of the band, are you in social media at this period?

[1349] I promised myself.

[1350] I would never Google myself or search my name on Twitter or anything like that.

[1351] But you are on social media enough that you can feel it.

[1352] You know how many followers.

[1353] That's what we get tricky.

[1354] There's five members of the group.

[1355] Everyone can see how many followers everyone has.

[1356] Were you the number one that was followed?

[1357] No, it's enough of.

[1358] Don't be mad at her for saying that.

[1359] Dax made her say that.

[1360] No, that's just a fact.

[1361] What's crazy is I do feel like the fans will eat you a lot.

[1362] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[1363] It's okay.

[1364] And let's add the layer of massageny that.

[1365] exists somehow with no one, which is like, the only story for five women working together is that they hate each other and fight.

[1366] That was the desperate houseway story.

[1367] Any one of these, they don't never do that when there's a group of dudes.

[1368] No. Yeah, no one's saying, it's crazy.

[1369] It's crazy.

[1370] It's crazy.

[1371] Justin Timberlake wanted to have a solo career.

[1372] No one's saying that.

[1373] 100%.

[1374] I mean, I will say, to be fair, I think the best part of looking at groups, because I remember seeing this from One One Direction or Destiny's Child, you love seeing the sisterhood and the friendship and the moments of laughing because you want it for yourself.

[1375] Especially as a fan.

[1376] It was a parisocial relationship.

[1377] And you just place yourself in that.

[1378] So I actually think people root for people to get along.

[1379] It's such an impossible situation.

[1380] Like, imagine you're a girl of 11 years old, four years older, being thrust into like a thing with four other girls.

[1381] One of them would be great in it and one of them would destroy.

[1382] It would be hard for.

[1383] It's also a personality.

[1384] I think it would be hard for anyone, any type of personality.

[1385] Because you can't help but compare.

[1386] Well, look at, I was at the ground lean.

[1387] at 27, 28 in the Sunday company.

[1388] When I say I love everyone there, I would have done anything for anyone there.

[1389] I would have given them my money.

[1390] I'd jump in front of a train for them.

[1391] And I definitely wanted to be the best person in that show.

[1392] And I wanted them to clap the loud as for me. And you were 28.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] Right.

[1395] All things were true.

[1396] All things were true.

[1397] When you left, what was the main thrust of thing you were desiring?

[1398] Was it expression?

[1399] Yes.

[1400] I was so into songwriting, and I just wanted to write my own songs.

[1401] Who at that moment that you were about to launch your solo career were you kind of obsessed with as an artist?

[1402] Probably Taylor.

[1403] Yeah.

[1404] I think she was the person that made me get into writing.

[1405] That's so cool because the vibe is so different.

[1406] It's so different.

[1407] I mean, it really evolved.

[1408] My influences are so different, but I think I started to find my voice through.

[1409] You see, like, a young woman who writes about her experiences through song, and it just feels like, I can do that.

[1410] That sounds fun.

[1411] I think she's almost the best role model an artist has ever had.

[1412] By the way, Beyonce is my number one.

[1413] She fell out of the sky.

[1414] And so there's a lot of things about her that are not really even aspirational.

[1415] I can't look and move like Beyonce.

[1416] And she clearly has a great work ethic.

[1417] But that's not the thing that was center stage.

[1418] It was like she's so glamorous in her fucking innate singing.

[1419] Well, not innate.

[1420] I'm sure she worked for it.

[1421] But her range and her power as a vocalist.

[1422] is like Aretha.

[1423] So these are things I can't work and get.

[1424] And so for Taylor, I think there's so much of her success is just based on the commitment to explore herself and tell her story and be prolific and hard work.

[1425] That's a really great role model.

[1426] I think there's different things that I take from both of them.

[1427] Beyonce, I think she has that Kobe Bryant thing on stage.

[1428] She's just like a fucking monster.

[1429] What she becomes when she's on stage, it's superhuman.

[1430] Okay, so Taylor was obviously someone.

[1431] And you were like, okay, were you old enough and mature enough to recognize that the thing she was doing was also securing some longevity for herself?

[1432] Like, if that was the approach you took, you could more write your own future.

[1433] I definitely feel like, wow, thank God that I started writing at such a young age.

[1434] There was an era of people that were maybe just singers and they took songs from people.

[1435] And now the industry has changed so much where the songwriters that were behind the scenes became artists.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] A lot of those singers that did that are like, oh, shit, who's going to fucking write myself?

[1438] song.

[1439] And I feel really grateful to past me that I had that curiosity because I don't really have to wait on anyone or like depend on anyone.

[1440] That's what I'm saying.

[1441] It puts you in the steering wheel a lot more absolutely.

[1442] But that's the misleading thing about Taylor.

[1443] Like when you say it seems a tiny bit more attainable because it's not like dropped from this.

[1444] It is.

[1445] Her ability to write in a way that's hyper -personal yet extremely universal is unparalleled.

[1446] There is not another artist who can do that That specifically, there's a new album.

[1447] People have all kinds of opinions on it.

[1448] You know, it's funny about the way you just said that, I don't know what's happening.

[1449] I know, but everyone else does.

[1450] But I now think people are shitting on it.

[1451] Yeah, some people are.

[1452] It's also the most streamed album of all time.

[1453] She's doing just fine.

[1454] But at first, when I heard it, I was like, whoa, it's a little too personal.

[1455] I can't connect.

[1456] And she says, like, these are poems.

[1457] But then I listened again, and I was like, no, I can't stop listening now.

[1458] And I super.

[1459] It's a grower not a shower?

[1460] She's a growing up.

[1461] Rolling Stone review of it.

[1462] It's a grower.

[1463] That's actually amazing.

[1464] I was going to say, I think she taught me so much.

[1465] And I feel like my favorite art now is the more specific something is, actually, the more universal it is.

[1466] A hundred percent.

[1467] And I feel like my songwriting grew so much when I was focused on that.

[1468] Don't try to make it universal because then it's nothing.

[1469] Exactly.

[1470] Well, the hits start coming fast.

[1471] When you go solo, they're coming hot and fast.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] Thank you.

[1474] Yeah.

[1475] I want to go in order.

[1476] Wait, while you wait for your order, I do want to say one thing because everyone's going to...

[1477] Oh, go pee in my pants.

[1478] Oh, go pee!

[1479] Can I?

[1480] Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1481] Matt Damon's in here.

[1482] Yeah, he is.

[1483] You lunch, then.

[1484] That was fast.

[1485] I am the fastest here in the world.

[1486] I'm impressed.

[1487] Do you guys go in your pool a lot?

[1488] Yeah.

[1489] We go in the hot tub almost every night.

[1490] Because we son a every night.

[1491] Do you cold plunge?

[1492] Yep.

[1493] We have a plunge and a sauna.

[1494] No, I don't cold plunge.

[1495] I hate cold plunge.

[1496] She's a beast in the sauna.

[1497] Her Indian blood, if she's impervious to heat.

[1498] She's gone in there in her clothes.

[1499] That's insane.

[1500] I did one time go into my clothes just to like say bye and then we started chatting.

[1501] And you like don't even notice that you're in a sauna.

[1502] I don't know if she wasn't sweating because she's impervious to heat or she has no water because she doesn't drink water.

[1503] I don't drink a lot of water.

[1504] Yes.

[1505] I don't get thirsty unless I'm working out.

[1506] If I'm working out, I'm super thirsty.

[1507] I am with you.

[1508] Or in the sauna.

[1509] Other than that, I'm not thirsty.

[1510] I'm not thirsty.

[1511] I don't get thirsty.

[1512] I don't get thirsty.

[1513] I am with you.

[1514] Or in the sauna.

[1515] Other than that I'm not thirsty.

[1516] I It could go literally all day.

[1517] I don't crave water.

[1518] One thing I want to say real quick before we come back in, because this happens all the time.

[1519] And it's important to me that we say, I don't like that every time we talk about Taylor, every time we talk about Beyonce, not you.

[1520] In general, the world is doing this, where they are now linked, where we're comparing one to the other.

[1521] I mean, a part of its timing, I guess.

[1522] They both had concerts at the same time.

[1523] They both have these new albums.

[1524] But it's always.

[1525] And even from friends of mine, I know they're like, I'm a big.

[1526] Beyonce girl.

[1527] I'm like, well, you can be that's crazy.

[1528] I don't do that, but I thought it was so sick when they linked up.

[1529] Me too.

[1530] Wait, what's that mean?

[1531] Love it when two bad bitches link up.

[1532] Like, they just supported each other's.

[1533] Oh, they went to each other's concerts?

[1534] Yeah, they're red carpet.

[1535] Like, I think that's so fire, because other industries, you have colleagues and you go to lunch.

[1536] The music industry is really not like that.

[1537] Supportive.

[1538] It's like, can we just hang out?

[1539] We all do the same thing.

[1540] Yeah, and we're the only four people on Planet Earth that knows what this experience is like?

[1541] Yeah, like, let's have dinner.

[1542] But I do want to, Monica, I think we're smart enough to make the distinction between what I was saying and what some people are saying.

[1543] A lot of people are positioning this is, who's better?

[1544] Yeah.

[1545] That is not at all.

[1546] I'm looking at two people that are Apex Success and how they did it differently.

[1547] I would say Vince Vaughn and Will Ferrell are like two of my comedy heroes and they had such different approaches and what were those approaches.

[1548] And I think it's honoring them to actually break down what their unique recipe is that ends them both here.

[1549] I'm not saying what you did is wrong, but there is a, there's a pitting against each other.

[1550] There's a big conversation out in the world that's specifically about them, and it's a very common thing for female artists.

[1551] Like, I'm sure you get it all the time.

[1552] You do not hear as much at all with this man. It's always compared to this man, and who's better, and who's not.

[1553] That's not true, Monica.

[1554] In the rap world, you were Jay -Z or Nas, and they hated each other.

[1555] And then it was Prince or Michael Jackson.

[1556] It's very human for there to be two popular things, and you do identify more with the other and then inadvertently make yourself in that team.

[1557] So it's not exclusive to women.

[1558] I don't think that's really fair.

[1559] I think it's more, I think it's much more prevalent.

[1560] Okay.

[1561] I definitely agree with the like they got to be fighting because they're women.

[1562] They can't get a long stereotype that's perpetuated.

[1563] But I think men are pitted against each other.

[1564] Like Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones or Rolling Stones and Beatles.

[1565] In fact, growing up, my mother was like, we're a Rolling Stones family.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] I definitely remember growing up and being like, you're either a Prince fan or you're a Michael Jackson fan.

[1568] Right.

[1569] It pervades all of it, to be honest.

[1570] Okay, so you leave in 2016 and then quickly, Hey, Ma comes out.

[1571] You're in a Fast and Furious soundtrack.

[1572] Crazy.

[1573] You go on the Bruno Mars 24 Magic World Tour.

[1574] But I imagine, even with that success and excitement, Havana's like something bonkers is now happening.

[1575] Is that fair to say?

[1576] Best -selling single of 2018, Spotify's most streamed song ever by a solo female artist.

[1577] As much as you wanted to win, when you win that big, then you kind of flip and go like, oh -oh.

[1578] Like a little too fast.

[1579] Yeah, or just like, I don't trust this.

[1580] Honestly, what I remember...

[1581] Or you're like, I knew it.

[1582] I don't think you ever know how big a song is going to be, but I feel like I know when a song is special.

[1583] And I was like, I feel like this bitch is special.

[1584] Say it.

[1585] Whoa, those are those Beyonce pipes coming in.

[1586] There was something just kind of weird about it.

[1587] Those are usually the ones where it either totally goes under the radar or it really connects.

[1588] People either really get it or they don't.

[1589] I often know if a song is good when I play it to someone, not because of their reaction, but how I feel.

[1590] You almost are extra critical because there's somebody there.

[1591] And if you're like cringing inside, you're like, this is not good.

[1592] And if you're like, fuck, yeah.

[1593] Then you know it's good.

[1594] Hear this shit.

[1595] Yeah, exactly.

[1596] And I think that's why it's important to stay connected.

[1597] If you're always listening to music for fun, you know how a great song makes you feel.

[1598] So you know if your song makes you feel like that.

[1599] And if it doesn't, then you're like, well, shit, this ain't it.

[1600] tuned for more firearm -chair expert, if you dare.

[1601] What I remember the most about that time, actually, was, and not to sound ungrateful because I'm not, but I had my first relationship at that time.

[1602] Oh, I can't even believe I blew past this.

[1603] You lived out my fantasy.

[1604] Oh, God.

[1605] What was it?

[1606] So for people who have not done this in their life, it's a very weird experience.

[1607] It was just you go out on a publicity tour of some variety.

[1608] And on your schedule in the morning, you wake up and you're going to today's show, and then you're going to the View, and then you're going to David Letterman at night.

[1609] And while you're out around town, and it can even happen in Atlanta, they send you to Atlanta and you're going to do this show and this show.

[1610] You're at a hotel and like you see other people that are promoting their stuff.

[1611] So these are like colleagues that you didn't even imagine you had.

[1612] And so you go on these shows and I always have this fantasy where like you're in the green room with people and you meet a fellow actor or a fellow something and you're both out selling your thing.

[1613] I've always wanted to like fall in love with one of those people.

[1614] Is this the relationship?

[1615] This was the relationship.

[1616] So she's doing the today show and meets a guy who's there with presumably a book or something.

[1617] something he's a life coach yes so what happened you're at the today show were you in the green room i was outside where they have the tv with the scripts i had actually listened to his podcast before by accident or in preparation no i listened to his podcast before as a fan because he had like a dating podcast okay and he is married now so congratulations yeah wonderful but i was like oh my god i'm such a big fan i love podcasts as you can see and so we went to dinner that night and that was my first relationship it was late for my first yeah how old was 20 did you feel a little not fraudulent but oh yes right absolutely that was like oh my god i've never had a boyfriend there was like literally eight songs that were like basically lonely i am so lonely did you been having sex at all before 20 that was my first my first time in my sex first love making was at 20 21 oh god it was literally love making yeah it's wonderful yeah no it was beautiful yeah yeah one thing i did think about because he's a quote relationship expert or at least i've written a book on dating and now i'm learning how to podcast about dating at any point would you go like This feels like he knows too much about this and it's calculated.

[1618] Sometimes, but I think that also honestly made him a great partner.

[1619] He was a really great person.

[1620] It was like the perfect first relationship.

[1621] Really expanded my world because he wasn't in my industry too.

[1622] It was like, oh my God, have you ever seen Anthony Bourdain parts unknown?

[1623] And have you ever seen Studio Ghibli films?

[1624] He just really expanded my references because before that it was like six years just in the music industry.

[1625] And we traveled and we like took trips.

[1626] So I remember when Havana was really big.

[1627] I was just like, but most importantly, I'm in love.

[1628] You know, I'm just such a fucking...

[1629] So what a year of your life, 2018.

[1630] Yeah, it was a great year.

[1631] I really want this year to be similar for me. I really hope I meet someone that I really like, because it's been a while.

[1632] It has.

[1633] Has it?

[1634] Like, probably, yeah, like a year.

[1635] I always say I would relive seventh grade over and over again.

[1636] I love that.

[1637] Would you relive 2018 over and over?

[1638] If you had to pick one year, no, no, no, what would be the year?

[1639] It's like far too hectic.

[1640] I feel like I really, I won't say peaked at fifth grade, because that's, That's not the vibes that I want to give.

[1641] Okay.

[1642] But fifth grade, I feel like I was king of the world.

[1643] Yeah.

[1644] I had my first tiny little boyfriend.

[1645] He kissed you on the cheek and you ran away.

[1646] You are the goat.

[1647] He kissed me on my cheek.

[1648] You need to write a song, Kissed Me on Your Sheik, and I ran away.

[1649] By the way, I actually did write a song about this called Butterfly Garden.

[1650] Okay.

[1651] And it was about being in fifth grade.

[1652] That didn't make the album, so.

[1653] There's no way you would know this, but do you know this band, Wolfpack?

[1654] No. They have a song.

[1655] the cutest song in the world.

[1656] It's a great song.

[1657] And it's called Backpocket.

[1658] And the song is Put it in my pocket.

[1659] Put it in my pocket.

[1660] Put it in my pocket in my back pocket.

[1661] And it's all about getting a note slid in your back pocket on the playground.

[1662] See, I love the specificity of that.

[1663] That's some Taylor Swift shit.

[1664] That's some T. Swift shit right there.

[1665] But yeah, fifth grade.

[1666] And also, I feel like I was my favorite era of music too.

[1667] Who was hot when you were in fifth grade?

[1668] Like cranked that soldier boy.

[1669] Oh, yeah.

[1670] Low by T. Okay.

[1671] Oh, man, that was in college.

[1672] Gotta get low, low.

[1673] Yeah, stronger by Kanye.

[1674] What an album.

[1675] Okay, is it too much to ask?

[1676] I mean, this would be my guess.

[1677] This gentleman was a little bit older, and he had already worked through all this stuff, and he probably was wise enough to go, like, this gal's still on a big, big ride that I don't know if I can link my cart to.

[1678] I got to let this one go free and flap her wings and do all our stuff.

[1679] Yeah, I think we really had, and I'm really putting this through, like a big filter, too.

[1680] Okay, yeah, of course.

[1681] Because I want to be so respectful of him.

[1682] But I think he kind of knew that.

[1683] But we were so happy together that I think he was probably like, this will be strong enough to kind of outweigh what is normal, 21 -year -old curiosity and peeking over the fence and whatever.

[1684] I would be very scared to be in love with you in 2018.

[1685] Yeah, I think he was.

[1686] They had a lot of anxiety about it, reasonably so.

[1687] Having never met him, didn't read his book, no nothing about him.

[1688] It sounds like maybe he was smart enough to go, like, I wish I met this person 10 years from that.

[1689] We always said that.

[1690] He always said that.

[1691] It's kind of cool also.

[1692] of him, because I think a lot of guys would have then tried to destroy you so that you couldn't have that future so that he could keep you.

[1693] I think you see that pattern, especially with powerful, talented women who have a lot of attention and their own money.

[1694] I think that impulse is not to set you free, but to try to take all that from you so that he can have you forever.

[1695] Yeah, so he can control you.

[1696] And like when you're that young, love feels like the fucking best.

[1697] It's the number one drug.

[1698] If somebody would have been like, drop everything and run away with me, I would have been like, fuck yeah, I'll do it.

[1699] Right.

[1700] That's what I'm saying.

[1701] He could have been a Yeah, 100 % Whereas now I would be like, that's maladaptive.

[1702] But I probably still do it, actually.

[1703] My therapist said this is maladaptive.

[1704] Yeah, and I would still do it.

[1705] I'd be like, okay, once the flight.

[1706] Album promo is canceled.

[1707] Do you feel like you give men a lot of power?

[1708] I say this to Liz all the time.

[1709] Even when I just said that joke, like I'd probably still do it.

[1710] There's two parts of me that are always fighting each other.

[1711] I know that it wouldn't be healthy, but I would still want to do it because it feels so good.

[1712] Well, I can tell you exactly what happened.

[1713] You would do that, but you would do that for nine months.

[1714] You'd wake up one morning and go, what in the fuck of my doing?

[1715] I don't really think you're domitable in that way, but I do think you could convince yourself in a romantic fantasy.

[1716] Yeah, me too.

[1717] But I think you would pull yourself out of it.

[1718] It's so fun, because I still actually don't think there is anything more fun than when you're first with someone.

[1719] There isn't.

[1720] There are things that are more nourishing, more healthy, healthy and like a deeper joy.

[1721] But as far as the candiness of it all, nothing.

[1722] And back to energy sources.

[1723] Oh, yeah.

[1724] It's huge.

[1725] It's crazy.

[1726] It's impossible.

[1727] It's cocaine.

[1728] It's cocaine.

[1729] And an obsessive personality, you just cannot get enough of that feeling.

[1730] Oh, and the planning of what thing you're doing next and living in that what's next thing.

[1731] Oh, my God.

[1732] And your energy after you text them, everything is funny.

[1733] Everything's going to work out.

[1734] Yeah.

[1735] Everything is like amazing.

[1736] It's the best day ever.

[1737] Do I give a lot of power to men?

[1738] Can you specify a little bit?

[1739] more.

[1740] I'm going to, because I don't think she'll care because she loves you.

[1741] I'm going to bring her in.

[1742] I say this to...

[1743] We talk about this, though.

[1744] Liz, yes.

[1745] You're an eye friend.

[1746] Mutual friend.

[1747] Our friend, Liz.

[1748] Plank.

[1749] You're an eye friend.

[1750] That's how you say.

[1751] Are you an eye friend?

[1752] That's a correct, grandma.

[1753] Our urinary.

[1754] A urinary friend.

[1755] UTI friend.

[1756] Liz, I always tell her that she gives men way too much power because she's incredible.

[1757] She's so smart.

[1758] She's beautiful.

[1759] She's capable.

[1760] She's everything.

[1761] She's everything.

[1762] Often she'll dilute it or she defers to men and a lot of areas in life, not just in a relationship, but even her and I have talked about business.

[1763] And she's like, well, my mentor and I was like, Liz, that person should not be your mentor.

[1764] But just because he's this like powerful man, you immediately elevate because the world elevates him.

[1765] It's not necessarily her.

[1766] And also I feel like mentor men do walk around with like a you need me vibe.

[1767] Yeah, but she's susceptible to that.

[1768] And I wonder, are you?

[1769] I definitely have that tendency.

[1770] And then when I like somebody or have a crush on somebody, I'm always working on pulling myself back to reality.

[1771] This is so easy for me to spend the whole day, daydreaming about them, and giving them characteristics that they have not shown me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1772] And I have to remember, like, not the person that's in your head.

[1773] And it's so much less fun.

[1774] That's the thing.

[1775] It's literally like, it's like sobering yourself up.

[1776] Like, it's like you are drunk off.

[1777] of this fantasy that you have created yourself.

[1778] It's having a glass of water between drinks.

[1779] Oh, yeah, it sucks.

[1780] We hate water.

[1781] We literally are never thirsty.

[1782] So, yeah, I always have to, like, bring myself back to the reality, which is always less fun.

[1783] I remember before, whenever I would perform, nobody would make me more nervous than my boyfriend.

[1784] I did feel like I would give men too much power at the time because my therapist would be like, that person should be a source of comfort for you.

[1785] That person should be a source of, like, I'm so happy they're here.

[1786] I'm nervous about everybody else but I would be the most I would be like doing fucking S &L and I would be like Is Sean gonna see it?

[1787] Yes.

[1788] I almost think what your therapist is suggesting is unrealistic and an unachievable goal which is actually why would you give a fuck what anyone else thinks?

[1789] You're not vested in that person liking you.

[1790] I don't care what Joe Schmoe thinks and I care what you think of me thinks of you.

[1791] I actually think that's kind of healthy like you should care what your friends and family now should we elevate it above friends and family?

[1792] Maybe not.

[1793] I don't know.

[1794] There's a zone that's probably healthy but I actually think that's very natural and almost seems like a waste of time to fight that.

[1795] But if you're anxious, it depends.

[1796] If you're just like, I hope they like it or I want them to be impressed by me. You said to me the other day, you saw my last Kimmel appearance.

[1797] Yeah.

[1798] And you were like, oh my God, buddy, you crushed it or whatever.

[1799] Yes.

[1800] And I was like, oh, that feels great.

[1801] I mean, certainly people said that on Instagram to me, but yes, I want Monica to think I'm funny when I go on TV.

[1802] But 100%.

[1803] If Kristen says I was hysterical.

[1804] It's more like if you were like, Fuck, Monica's going to watch this.

[1805] Exactly.

[1806] Well, yes, that would be the pathological side of it.

[1807] Exactly.

[1808] I go a little pathological for sure.

[1809] Right.

[1810] Now, what's interesting now that I've met you and I've interviewed Sean, and I've also been at a couple places where Sean wasn't chatted with him.

[1811] I think what would be interesting about you, too, is that you're both in a very wonderful and cute way.

[1812] Oh, God, what are you about to say?

[1813] You're about to say neurotic.

[1814] You want to figure it out.

[1815] Like, you're on it, right?

[1816] There's therapy, there's some self -actualization going.

[1817] Foodism.

[1818] Which I like, but I almost wonder.

[1819] I think at least what works about Chris and I is we're watching a doc right now about a murderer and his friends don't want to turn him in and she's like, how could these people not turn him in?

[1820] And I'm like, hon, if Aaron killed someone?

[1821] I'm not saying shit.

[1822] But just we're opposites.

[1823] And I think of both of us were like, yeah, let's help our friend bury a body.

[1824] Not a great partnership.

[1825] So I almost wonder if you two could be on this journey together and at some point just look at each other like Jesus Christ, we're both 85.

[1826] One of us has to be insane.

[1827] No, 100%.

[1828] And I think that even though I talk about the Buddhism and the therapy and the meditation, I do feel right now, especially, I'm in my era where I need to go out and have fun and have a good time.

[1829] It's teenage time for me, for sure.

[1830] I want to, like, almost black out but not.

[1831] Do you want to hang later?

[1832] Because I drink a lot of wine.

[1833] I am actually not that into wine.

[1834] It just makes me sleepy.

[1835] But I will.

[1836] Martini.

[1837] Yes, great.

[1838] Okay, great.

[1839] Expresso.

[1840] Expresso.

[1841] Expresso Martini.

[1842] With Camilla.

[1843] Can we do a show with you that's called Expresso with Camilla?

[1844] We'll have changed the spelling of your name, of course.

[1845] Wow.

[1846] Yeah, sure.

[1847] Camilla, my alter ego.

[1848] I know you have two listeners, Lincoln and Delta.

[1849] Yeah, I definitely think that's why I gravitate towards people and guys who are maybe a little bit more on the dangerous side.

[1850] Because I don't want to take stuff too seriously.

[1851] This is self -serving, but can I recommend a reformed bad boy?

[1852] That's maybe the sweet spot for you.

[1853] Yeah, I agree.

[1854] That's everyone wants that.

[1855] And they're not very many.

[1856] There's a lot of bad boys when they're not a reform.

[1857] They think they're reform, but they're not.

[1858] Oh, right, right, right.

[1859] It's a slippery, you know.

[1860] The pool is shallow nowadays, for sure.

[1861] All right, so what we have coming is CXOXO