'Rabbit Hole,' Episode 5: The Accidental Emperor

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Babaro.

[1] Today, rabbit hole.

[2] Episode 5.

[3] As we approach the 21st century, a new means of communication is emerging.

[4] This technology uses computer networks to link people on every continent.

[5] If we are destined to live in a global village, one day we will all be connected to the Internet.

[6] How's it going, bros?

[7] My name is Prim.

[8] Okay, Kevin, yes.

[9] Of all the things that I've learned over the past year, of working with you...

[10] My grandma says I sound just like him when I do it.

[11] None of it has surprised me more than PewDie Pie.

[12] My name is Pew!

[13] I have learned that this guy is not only the most popular YouTuber ever...

[14] Everyone looks up to him as, like, not really a god, but like the YouTube god.

[15] Like, way bigger than anyone that Caleb ever got into.

[16] His reach transcends nationality, language, and culture in a career.

[17] made possible by the digital age.

[18] But according to some measures, like, he's the most famous person, like, of our lifetime.

[19] Yeah.

[20] Like, he likes to, like, be himself, and he doesn't pretend to be something.

[21] Like, he's real.

[22] Even though so many people that I know have never even heard of him.

[23] I don't know.

[24] It's just something about him that makes people love him so much.

[25] You feel like you're a part of it with him.

[26] And somehow, his story...

[27] It gives me life.

[28] Is central to understanding the culture war of our...

[29] age.

[30] Like, all day, Puttie Pie, a bunch, Pewtie Pie.

[31] It's just all day.

[32] And one of the wildest things about it is that this whole story unfolded in front of a webcam.

[33] So, PewDie Pye's real name is Felix Shelberg.

[34] He's Swedish.

[35] He looks very Swedish.

[36] Blonde hair, blue eyes.

[37] in 2010 he's 20 years old he's an undergrad at a Swedish university and in April of that year he starts a YouTube channel and he begins uploading these videos with himself playing his favorite video games like Call of Duty and Minecraft Okay I should probably do something more productive after this He starts every video or most videos saying like How's it going for us?

[38] My name is What's up, Rose, it's Pea -Py -a -Py -T -Py.

[39] Wait, that was wrong.

[40] My name's Peon -A -Pah.

[41] And by the end of the year...

[42] Today we're going to celebrate, because I got 100 subscribers.

[43] He's got a few fans.

[44] To a lot of people, 100 subscribers is probably an insignificant number, but to me it means a lot, so I just want to thank you guys so much.

[45] And...

[46] Welcome, uh, everyone to part one of Nightmare House to...

[47] Pretty soon he moves on from Call of Duty in Minecraft.

[48] Oh my God.

[49] And he starts playing these horror games.

[50] And these videos, they're actually pretty fun to watch.

[51] Because his reaction to the scary stuff in these games is very, very over the top.

[52] And his channel starts growing.

[53] First of all, it was 1 ,000 subs And then it got to 2 ,000 subs And then it's like 2 ,500 subs I don't really care for numbers that much What I care more about is the support for That I get from all you guys And then at this point Hey, hey, hey, hey Felix starts putting these new kinds of videos onto his channel Welcome to my very first non -gameplay video It's going to be a really boring video Just warning you He eventually starts calling them Fridays with Bitback Fridays with PewDiePie.

[54] Okay, that was pretty dumb, dumb title.

[55] But I thought I'll do these blog -ish sort of things at least once a week.

[56] And it's a way for me to get closer to you guys.

[57] Where he...

[58] The next son, it's from Finland.

[59] Susan Fostrom.

[60] Another gift.

[61] Could it be another...

[62] Shares gifts his fans have sent him.

[63] Answers their questions.

[64] This is my apartment.

[65] I can barely afford to pay the rent.

[66] And speaks directly to them.

[67] about...

[68] I got a job.

[69] His new job...

[70] Are you recording?

[71] No. Me?

[72] Yes.

[73] Or his new girlfriend.

[74] I'm in Italy.

[75] With my girl.

[76] At one point, he talks about...

[77] With finals coming up in less than a month, I just can't put my hobby in front of...

[78] Having to take a break from YouTube because he's got to go study.

[79] I'm going to miss you guys a lot, actually.

[80] To his fans, he starts to feel like...

[81] It's so awkward, is it still running.

[82] A part of their lives.

[83] I really do consider all of you as a friend almost.

[84] It's weird to say because I never met you.

[85] And some of that is this sense of intimacy that he created on his channel.

[86] I love you guys so much.

[87] I'm swimming around in a vagina.

[88] I'm swimming around in a vagina.

[89] And the other part of it is...

[90] I got a new dick in his face.

[91] Put his dick in my face.

[92] He just doesn't really filter himself.

[93] My penis has patience.

[94] There's a lot of swearing.

[95] Mother fuck!

[96] Stupid crazy bitch, Tanya.

[97] Kind of like this teenage boy humor.

[98] Transmitting your gain.

[99] Ah, right to my penis.

[100] I pay from there.

[101] And this thing that he's doing, this sort of mix of intimacy and this weird juvenile humor, it causes his audience.

[102] Stay awesome bros. This group that calls itself the bro army.

[103] The bro army has now reached half a million subscribers, which is insane.

[104] To keep growing bigger.

[105] It's pretty much my job right now to make.

[106] these videos.

[107] I used to have the shittiest job, you bros. And bigger.

[108] I never, ever expected one million.

[109] That is just ridiculous.

[110] And bigger.

[111] You were already at 2 million?

[112] I'm like, it's crazy how fast it went.

[113] I never expected it.

[114] Until finally, in 2013, just two years after he dropped out of college.

[115] I got this in the mail.

[116] It says Guinness World Records.

[117] Felix suddenly finds himself as the most subscribed channel in YouTube's history.

[118] The most subscribed YouTube with 12 million.

[119] We're actually 13 million now.

[120] Yeah, 13 million bros. It was achieved by PewDiePie.

[121] It should say, by the bros. I want to thank the internet for allowing their emperor to be here for the evening.

[122] And his YouTube world is big and influential enough.

[123] Why do you think people like it so much watching me play games?

[124] I think it's not just watching me play it.

[125] It's kind of like we're hanging out.

[126] That he starts getting all these offers.

[127] You're watching someone play Call of Duty and talk about it?

[128] PewDiePont.

[129] He gets a deal with this Disney -owned content studio to make videos and apps and merchandise.

[130] We are having lunch over at Penguin, my publisher.

[131] He gets a book deal.

[132] Thank you, both, for supporting the book.

[133] It's out in bookstores now.

[134] You have a new YouTube read original series.

[135] YouTube pays him to create.

[136] this like subscriber -only TV -style series.

[137] It's called Scare PewDiePie.

[138] What's the show about?

[139] Well, I play horror games.

[140] That's kind of my thing on YouTube.

[141] He actually becomes like a major force in the gaming industry.

[142] This is a really cool game.

[143] It's called Universe Sandbox.

[144] Video Game Studios beg him to play their games on his channel because his fans buy so many games.

[145] The King of YouTube.

[146] Good morning.

[147] Yes, so I am joined by YouTube Royalty, Felix Shelberg, better known as, you are royalty.

[148] So he's known online as PewDie Pye.

[149] He holds the record.

[150] He goes from 13 million subscribers to 50 million subscribers.

[151] How did he become the biggest star?

[152] In 2016, Forbes reported that he made $15 million in a single year.

[153] Honestly, have you ever heard of him?

[154] Never heard of him.

[155] You haven't?

[156] No. I haven't.

[157] I have my daughter told me about it.

[158] And at that point, people from the outside start sitting up real straight.

[159] They're saying, like, wait, this guy is making $15 million doing what?

[160] Okay, so I'm going to drink this water.

[161] This is the cheap water.

[162] Then I'm going to piss in this.

[163] We're going to wait a day.

[164] And then I'm going to drink this water, the expensive water, and then I'm going to piss this water back in the bottle.

[165] As PewDie Pies channel grows.

[166] And then I'm going to drink it.

[167] And then I'm going to evaluate which piss tastes better.

[168] $1 piss or $600 piss.

[169] He starts doing less video game playing and more like...

[170] That is an extremely ugly baby.

[171] I'm not going to lie.

[172] That is a lot of chins for a baby.

[173] Reviews and reactions to things that are trending on the internet.

[174] Men are taking up too much space on the train.

[175] Just ask him to move.

[176] Don't be such a fucking pussy and make a blog about it.

[177] And you can see in these videos...

[178] Hagrid smirked and looked up from the buffet of firm, tight, He's experimenting with things like reading erotic Harry Potter fanfiction.

[179] And slapping in hardly on his buttock.

[180] Or trying out an absurdist parody of a gossip show about YouTube celebrities.

[181] Jack Septuichai says, I got to see all my friends.

[182] Jack Septukey doesn't have any friends.

[183] Why is he lying about this?

[184] Where between bits, he flashes these, like, silly anime title cards with a picture of Hitler on them.

[185] The next news might shock you.

[186] And one of these new kinds of videos he started making was essentially videos where he would talk about YouTube.

[187] Can someone just stop YouTube from their self?

[188] I feel like YouTube is like a toddler playing with knives.

[189] It actually was this thing that a lot of professional YouTubers were doing at the time, but...

[190] Remember the sub -feed?

[191] Remember when that was a thing?

[192] This is what we get now.

[193] We get the recommended.

[194] Where's the fucking sub -feed?

[195] In this one particular video that came out in December of 2016, Felix was ranting about these changes that YouTube had made to users' home pages.

[196] All I want is that the people that subscribe to me get to watch my videos.

[197] I don't give a shit about whatever else you do.

[198] But that seems like the core foundation of pretty much this most simple fucking thing that you need to do.

[199] And at the end of his rant, this is all a conspiracy.

[200] YouTube wants to kill my channel It's because I'm always complaining to them I don't have family friendly content I clickbait too much huh Is that it?

[201] It all makes sense He's sort of put on this like conspiracy theorist act YouTube wants my channel gone They want someone else on top Where he was kind of making fun of conspiracy theorists But also I'm white Can I make that comment but I do think that's a problem He makes this comment.

[202] It's in reference to the fact that, like, YouTube at the time was actively promoting more diverse creators, and it's kind of in the same silly PewDie -Pie voice as the rest of the video.

[203] And I'm not going to let YouTube win.

[204] I'm not going to let YouTube defeat me. But it starts this whole chain reaction.

[205] I'm used to getting hate comments and just generally, really dumb comments.

[206] That's normal.

[207] But now, we got some next.

[208] level shit.

[209] This is kind of impressive.

[210] A few days later PewDiePie posts another video because...

[211] PewDiePie says YouTube is killing his channel because he's white.

[212] Some blogs and news sites, including this British website, The Independent, wrote that he had suggested that YouTube was killing his channel because he was white.

[213] Why is this an article?

[214] Because ClickBae.

[215] That's why.

[216] He said basically they were just using his name.

[217] to get clicks on their site.

[218] This clickbait journalism is just the purest form of cancer.

[219] And that they took the whole thing out of context.

[220] It's extremely annoying how I can't make jokes on my channel without anyone quoting it as actual facts, like something I actually said.

[221] Do they know my...

[222] have they seen any videos coming out of my channel?

[223] And how now...

[224] Good, you did it.

[225] Good job.

[226] Congrats.

[227] Hey man, congrats on your journalism job.

[228] They were fueling all of these rumors about him.

[229] Peter Pie, racist, question mark.

[230] What the fuck?

[231] There was even this tweet that, like, claimed that he was in favor of the Nazi party.

[232] People just read this, and they're like, oh, okay.

[233] I see.

[234] Peter Pie, it's a Nazi.

[235] Now, that's...

[236] All right.

[237] And at the end of the video...

[238] I'm not going to just, then, like, step aside for her and take it.

[239] This is...

[240] This...

[241] It's too dumb.

[242] He does this thing where...

[243] And, uh, I'll say.

[244] See you in the next video.

[245] Stay awesome.

[246] He pretends to leave his webcam running on accident, and you can see him, like, stepping away from the microphone, and he, like, puts on a military jacket and hat and starts playing a speech in German.

[247] And then it cuts and reveals that he is actually watching a video of Hitler.

[248] And the last shot is a close -up of his face, smiling.

[249] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[250] I will do any crazy and bizarre challenge you want.

[251] Drink bleach.

[252] About a month later...

[253] There's a website called Fiverr, where you basically can ask anyone for anything.

[254] Felix makes a video that's kind of mocking people on this website called Fiverr, which is basically this website where you can pay like five bucks or other small amounts of money to have people do little random tasks for you.

[255] For example, we'll paint your message on my body and dance in the jungle.

[256] And so he posts a video of all these things that people on fiber have done for him.

[257] And one of these things was that he had paid these young South Asian guys.

[258] Subscribe to Kimstar.

[259] To hold up a sign.

[260] that says death to all Jews.

[261] I am sorry.

[262] I didn't think they would actually do it.

[263] I feel partially responsible, but just I didn't think they would actually do it.

[264] I don't feel good.

[265] I don't feel too proud of this.

[266] I'm not going to lie.

[267] Like, I'm not anti -simatic or whatever it's called.

[268] Okay, so don't get the wrong idea.

[269] It was a funny meme, and I didn't think it would work, okay?

[270] You can't hold me, you can't hold me. I swear, I love Jews.

[271] I love them.

[272] The Wall Street Journal, launched an investigation into the 27 -year -old Swedish comedian.

[273] And that's one of few reporters at the Wall Street Journal started paying attention.

[274] It found nine videos on his channel dating back to August that had anti -Semitic jokes or showed Nazi imagery.

[275] They noticed that not only had PewDie Pai, this incredibly famous YouTube person, made these anti -Semitic jokes on his channel, but after that, this infamous neo -Nazi website, the Daily Stormer, had actually changed its homepage to say that it was the world's number one PewDiePie fan site.

[276] So the reporters, they asked Disney, like, what do you think about this?

[277] Disney has cut ties with the world's highest paid YouTube star PewDie Pi because of allegations of anti -Semitism.

[278] In response, Disney cut ties with him, and then the journal published its story.

[279] In one of his now deleted clips, two men held up a sign reading death to all Jews.

[280] And suddenly, like, his career is kind of in free fall.

[281] They pulled him.

[282] from YouTube.

[283] They've dumped him from ads.

[284] That's a big...

[285] He's losing his ad deals and projects.

[286] YouTube has also cancelled his original series.

[287] And it becomes this huge international scandal.

[288] Like PewDiePie, the biggest YouTuber in the world, this incredibly famous person, is maybe a neo -Nazi?

[289] I think there's going to be a lot of eyes on me during this video.

[290] So I'm going to address this as if I'm talking publicly and not directly to my audience which is how I normally would do it so hello my name is Felix Shelberg but you probably know me as be a couple days after the Wall Street Journal article Felix posts his response I want to address the biggest issue first which I think is the whole guys holding up the sign thing I'm sure you've seen it it's been everywhere a lot of people love the video and a lot of people didn't and it's almost like two generations of people arguing whether this is okay or not.

[291] He says that these Nazi Hitler memes, they're just not all that shocking for people in his part of the internet subculture, which, you know, is not wrong.

[292] But regardless of that, I just wanted to reiterate that my intention was just to show how stupid the website is and how far you can push it by paying $5.

[293] I'm sorry.

[294] He also apologizes for the words that I used, uh, as a lot of, uh, I know they offended people, and I admit that the joke itself went too far.

[295] But then...

[296] Here's the thing, though.

[297] I made a point that the media takes what I say out of context.

[298] They take that and put it out of context to use against me and to portray me as a Nazi.

[299] He goes through what he sees as all the mistakes that the Wall Street Journal made.

[300] They took parts where in my game, other people created Swatzikas, and my title of that video is, Stop doing this.

[301] Stop making swastikas in my game.

[302] They took that as evidence against me. How they clipped together different parts of his videos.

[303] I'm not kidding.

[304] They used even me pointing my arm like this.

[305] It's the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

[306] Edit them in misleading ways.

[307] I think what this article shows more than anything.

[308] Old school media does not like internet personalities because they're scared of us.

[309] And you can hear in this video...

[310] It was an attack towards me. It was an attack by the media to try and discredit me, to try and decrease my influence and my economic worth.

[311] That's what this was.

[312] That a much larger fight is taking shape.

[313] I'm still here.

[314] I'm still making videos.

[315] Nice try, Wall Street Journal.

[316] Try again, motherfuckers.

[317] And of course, Petit Pie half -heartedly apologizes, calls media motherfuckers.

[318] There are more articles.

[319] Petit Piedi's apology for Nazi jokes shows that he still doesn't get it.

[320] From places like BuzzFeed and Vox.

[321] Vox Media posted this, unironically, arguably similar to Nazi fashion.

[322] Recently, he has been wearing Himmler -style glasses and sporting a fashy, slang for fascist, Hitler Youth Haircut.

[323] And then those are followed by even more video responses.

[324] Here's a graph showing the trust in media going down, based on age.

[325] I assume that pieces like this is not helping with that.

[326] Here's a graph of the newspaper ad revenue from digital in print, showing decrease of revenue in the media.

[327] Oh, okay, so Wall Street is losing influence and income.

[328] Hmm, I wonder who's gaining that right now.

[329] Maybe I should buy the Wall Street Journal.

[330] Actually, I don't know.

[331] Seems like a failing business to me. And it's not just Felix responding I'm going to try my best to stay calm His fans are jumping in Because I'm fired up, I'm angry I think a lot of people within the YouTube community are very angry Save your fucking outrage for the real races And that's why I stand with PewDiePie I stand with Beauty Pie Hashtag stand with PewDiePie Liberate him from the media circle jerk They're making it out like he's a Nazi Right.

[332] And he's not at all.

[333] Other YouTubers start jumping in...

[334] Wall Street Journal.

[335] Aren't you like a fucking news organization?

[336] Don't you talk about like Wall Street?

[337] Like, I'm sorry, but this jargon, the words that they're using, it's like they are speaking...

[338] It's like they are speaking to a completely different sect of human beings who don't even know what any...

[339] Eventually, some of his fans start using these kind of like Gamergate trolling tactics.

[340] Like they make threats and they dig up old embarrassing tweets, which then inspires more online articles and posts.

[341] some calling his fans a mob.

[342] We're a mob, guys.

[343] We're a mob and we're brainwashed, and we should be so fucking thankful that this one woke person over at BuzzFeed is writing an article for us, for us to understand.

[344] It's like saying, oh, my God, our kids are listening to Elvis.

[345] He's moving his hips around and they're so sexy, our kids are going to get fucking pregnant.

[346] This story completely dominates the internet.

[347] This is the culture police.

[348] They are the real Nazis.

[349] They are the digital Nazis at Vox and the New York Times.

[350] And so does this deeper conversation about the fight between internet culture and mainstream institutions.

[351] He is a much bigger entity than them.

[352] But in their mind, like a scoop is them, the legitimate media.

[353] So pointing out something in the illegitimate dis...

[354] He noticed the change in YouTube over the last few years where they push NBC and all these fucking...

[355] mainstream shows and mainstream things and they push down everybody else.

[356] Now PewDiePie's kind of gone from Maker Studios and all these things.

[357] It's like to me it's a big conspiracy.

[358] If you look at it, these five major networks that own everything in the country and if anybody from the outside and the internet starts to rise up, they want to attack them and shoot them down.

[359] Hey, how's it going, bros?

[360] My name is Peterpah.

[361] Just wanted to make a quick video to say thanks.

[362] I don't think I've gotten this much support ever of me making videos.

[363] these past six years on YouTube, and it really turned this shitty situation completely around.

[364] And all the support that I've been getting from you guys has just been incredible.

[365] It seemed that people that doesn't even necessarily consume my content came to support me throughout this whole thing with the media because they thought the whole situation was unjustified.

[366] This whole fight, it really elevates PewDiePie to an even higher level of influence.

[367] It was almost like the internet had my back.

[368] throughout this whole situation.

[369] And it's really all I care about.

[370] To the point where now, when he makes videos where he's...

[371] Go, go, go, go.

[372] There's an opening.

[373] Playing video games.

[374] Come on, man. Come on, pooty pie, you can do it.

[375] Making fun of PC culture.

[376] Did I just hear someone use a microaggression?

[377] Microaggression.

[378] It's a term we all came to love.

[379] Or making fun of the mainstream media.

[380] I should probably drop this whole meme with wham and...

[381] for a while before Wall Street makes another montage.

[382] He's not just doing it as the king of YouTube.

[383] Isn't it nice when bros game together?

[384] Nothing makes me happier.

[385] He's really become this symbolic culture warrior for the free and open internet, taking on the establishment on behalf of the little guys.

[386] And in a lot of ways, he's become a symbol of victory.

[387] And then came T -Series.

[388] In the middle of 2018 This other channel started creeping up toward the top of YouTube's subscriber account That's right, in no less than in November this year PDPai will not be the biggest channel on YouTube That would be pretty nice actually No!

[389] We must fight back Who is this T -Series channel?

[390] And this channel is owned by T -Series which is this Indian media conglomerate They own a lot of rights to Bollywood songs And as more and more people in India Start getting online and getting really into YouTube T -series subscriber account Actually starts to approach PewDie Pied I don't like your T -series And so Felix makes this video Nothing personal kid in the style of a rap battle Where he calls out T -series By using all of these like popular internet memes about India.

[391] I'm a blue eyes white dragon while you're just dark magician.

[392] You got a fifth of the population in your nation, but I got 90...

[393] Some of the lyrics, like, they poke fun at the way Indian people talk.

[394] And the track itself is called bitch lasagna, which is a rich lasagna, which is a reference to this viral Reddit meme where this Indian guy was trying to get a woman to send him nude photos, and when she didn't, he called her a bitch lasagna.

[395] This video, it gets a quarter of a billion views.

[396] And once again, his fans jump into action.

[397] When I'm through with you, we're going to be completely fucking done.

[398] Making their own versions of the song.

[399] I review you.

[400] Zero by bitch guys.

[401] Go through you, bitch lasagna.

[402] And eventually, they start this grassroots campaign.

[403] Subscribe to Pootie Pie.

[404] PewDie Pie.

[405] That became known as Subscribe to PewDie Pie.

[406] PewDie Pie.

[407] Subscribe to PewDie Pie.

[408] Subscribe to PewDie Pie.

[409] Every day, people come to my doorstep.

[410] Jack, are you subscribed to PewDie Pie?

[411] PewDie's friends, other YouTubers are making videos about this.

[412] Everyone must be subscribed.

[413] In this video, I will say PewDie Pie, 100 ,000 times.

[414] to stop T -series.

[415] Ducks gonna duck.

[416] And that's just the beginning.

[417] We got the double billboards.

[418] Before long, people are buying up billboards, including like a billboard in Times Square.

[419] Hackers say that they've taken control of printers around the world.

[420] This group of hackers, they hack a network of like 50 ,000 printers around the world.

[421] To create posters supporting the favorite blogger, Pew Dai Pi.

[422] There's a parade in the capital city of Estonia.

[423] Bitch Lazzania actually gets played at a rally in Russia.

[424] It appears at a professional basketball game in Lithuania.

[425] The UK's Independence Party actually tweets out to subscribe to PewDie Pied.

[426] Hackers have attacked the Wall Street Journal to defend PewDiePie.

[427] Some hackers actually got into the website of the Wall Street Journal and, like, posted this fake article written from the perspective of T -Series telling people to subscribe to PewDiePie.

[428] This is the design.

[429] Is this not the greatest idea?

[430] People are getting subscribed to PewDiePie Pie tattoos.

[431] All of the gamers, all of the furries, put your differences aside.

[432] We need to come together.

[433] It really becomes this all -out battle.

[434] If you're here and you're watching, that means.

[435] of all these different people that means you can click a subscribe button that means that you can do it every single one of us needs to fight harder than we've ever fought before from all over the internet pizza ref come on new the pewty pie the following is an important message for anyone with multiple accounts on youtube taking on what they see the end of puty pie's reign represents the end of an era of creatively driven individuality that's the end of the youtube era is this the end of the youtube era is this beginning of the corporation era as this powerful corrupt establishment we need to keep fighting back and it grows to become this huge internet dominating meme and it actually works like puty pie's subscriber count which was already the highest in the world increases by like 50 % going from like 60 million before this all happened to something like 90 million and then we are monitoring a reported mass shooting at a mosque near the New Zealand city of Christchurch.

[436] Unprecedented is how police are describing this attack.

[437] The gunmen stormed in wearing a helmet with a camera on it.

[438] Witnesses report dozens of shots fired.

[439] 49 people are known to have died.

[440] And it was live streamed on social media.

[441] That video was the final transmission, if you will, from this individual.

[442] He apparently mentioned he wanted people to rip into each other and create chaos.

[443] He also apparently added, remember lads?

[444] Remember lads?

[445] Subscribe to PewDiePy.

[446] Okay, so Kevin, from what I have been able to gather, the shooter at Christchurch who said subscribe to PewDie Pye before going into these mosques, he left behind a manifesto.

[447] And in it, he appeared to be trying to sow global chaos with this attempt.

[448] And alongside these conspiracy theories about an attempt to replace the white race, he also had made all of these references to different internet figures like PewDiePie that had different brawls with the mainstream media.

[449] And by saying subscribe to PewDiePie in the moment that he did, he was trying to bait the mainstream media into blaming PewDiePie and these other alternative figures, which would then frustrate their millions and millions of fans.

[450] and in the end be this, like, ultimate trolling of the establishment.

[451] Right.

[452] I mean, look, it's hard to know exactly why anyone does something like this, but he seems to have known pretty clearly that including these mentions in his manifesto and in his videos would stoke this fire.

[453] Okay, so let me just see.

[454] I've never actually used this before.

[455] It's very fancy, I'm told.

[456] So a few weeks after these attacks, Felix agreed to meet with me. Ruined by the horrible acoustics in here.

[457] Yeah, it's a little more accurately then.

[458] And basically, like, do his first interview, his first real interaction with the mainstream media since the Wall Street Journal article.

[459] So it's been a while since you did one of these time.

[460] It's been a long time.

[461] How long?

[462] Probably two years, maybe.

[463] That's interesting.

[464] Yeah.

[465] Why?

[466] Why now?

[467] Hmm.

[468] I respect the New York Times, and I respect you as well, and I thought it might be interesting.

[469] To hear more, go to whatever app you're using to hear me right now.

[470] Search for Rabbit Hole, two words, and hit subscribe.