Most of Your Poor Financial Decisions Start With You

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author a couple times over, and host of the Dr. John Deloney show, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host today.

[2] Merry Christmas, America.

[3] We're glad you're here.

[4] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -2.

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[6] Madison is with us to start off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia.

[7] Hi, Madison.

[8] Welcome to the show.

[9] Hi, Dave.

[10] Hi, John.

[11] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[12] Sure.

[13] What's up?

[14] So I'm in a predicament that I've actually made myself.

[15] I got married, second marriage for both of us, not quite six years ago.

[16] and at that time I had been through a pretty bad divorce and had a pretty traumatic first marriage so definitely was healing from that and met this wonderful man so nice to me and kind to me and I just felt head over heels and love with him I knew he was broke I knew he didn't have any money and that that just didn't matter to me he was just so nice to me and I loved being treated nice So we got married.

[17] I did have him find a pre -nup because I was expecting to inherit a large amount of money from my parents' estate at some point.

[18] I hadn't at that time, but I knew that that would be in the future.

[19] And so he did sign a prenuptial agreement and didn't have any problems with that.

[20] However, I started our relationship with just paying all the time.

[21] I paid for everything.

[22] We'd go out for dinner, I would pay.

[23] I already had a place where I lived that I paid for and, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

[24] So I understand how I've kind of set a pattern.

[25] And at the time, it didn't bother me. And, you know, I also want to add, this man's a Christian man. He knows the Word of God.

[26] You know, we really, I really have put this in God's hands and asked for his help.

[27] But I just, I just can't figure out where, why there's just, There's no spirit of generosity with him.

[28] He just, I've brought up several times, you know, can you please pitch in?

[29] Just kick in.

[30] I don't expect half and half.

[31] I have plenty of money.

[32] I don't need his money.

[33] It's just on principle.

[34] I just need to know that I'm not just the only one that's supporting us.

[35] I feel like I'm the breadwinner.

[36] So he doesn't earn an income?

[37] He did.

[38] We are both retired now.

[39] He does not have any retirement.

[40] How old are you, gosh?

[41] I'm 60, he's 64.

[42] Okay.

[43] He took Social Security early.

[44] He was working at that time, and then when you start taking Social Security, you can only work so many hours.

[45] You can only make so much money so that knocked his availability down to where he really couldn't work very much.

[46] But since then, we've both retired and relocated.

[47] So what do you feel like the core question is?

[48] I think I'm just trying to figure out if I'm being taken advantage of.

[49] Is this just something where I'm being, you know, I've brought something up several times and I just, nothing changes, nothing, it just stays the same.

[50] And I don't know if I, well, I guess what my next step should be as far as.

[51] Hold on.

[52] This isn't a money issue.

[53] This is a respect issue.

[54] You don't respect the man that you're married to.

[55] Because like I bring home, I bring home a quote unquote income to the house.

[56] But my wife, my God almighty, if she disappeared, the house would go away.

[57] So I don't look at her and say, wow, you're not contributing to this thing.

[58] And I'm paying for dinner all the time because my money is our money.

[59] Right.

[60] And the home that she keeps.

[61] and runs and her small business like that's ours too but there's a mutual respect there so this doesn't have to do with money and you mentioned earlier you don't want a thing you don't want your marriage to be where you're paying for everything it is that is the world you set up so yeah the only thing you can do from this point forward is to create something new but this is a respect issue this isn't a I just need him to pitch in issue Have you been very clear about what you need or has it been a, ah, you know, like, man, I sure am paying for a lot.

[62] And he might be thinking, well, it's our money.

[63] Have you been very clear with him?

[64] I'm not, no. I'm very afraid of confrontation.

[65] I get very nervous about talking about something like this.

[66] And then you end up in resentment land because you spend a ton of time having imaginary conversations in your head, don't you?

[67] Yes.

[68] Oh, I do.

[69] That's cruel and unfair to him.

[70] And doubt.

[71] Yes.

[72] So if you're going to be mad at him.

[73] Kind of hard on your brain too.

[74] Yeah.

[75] If you're going to be mad at him, he at least deserves to know what he could do, give him a path back to relationship.

[76] Because right now he married somebody with a lot of money, and he might think he's fulfilling his duties as your husband by being the fun loving guy that just whatever, whatever, partridge in a pear tree.

[77] He needs to know you don't respect him.

[78] Yeah.

[79] I do love them and I don't want I don't want anything to end What does he need to do to be a person that you would respect?

[80] Because he doesn't need to work, you guys are retired.

[81] No, no, no, it's not a work ethic thing.

[82] What is it that he's supposed to do that makes him valid in your mind?

[83] I think just pitching in, say, I don't know, a thousand dollars a month something so i'm not the only one where's he got money from he has social security money and he gets other money so you guys don't have your finances combined at all um we do have a joint checking account but he's never put any money in it so no i mean does he have an avenue to do that he could yeah he could he could he could put money in there yeah because he's on the he's on the account but if he's looking at your vast amount of money in that account and he looks at his Piddly, his Pidley, um, government check.

[84] Yeah.

[85] See what I'm saying?

[86] Like, he needs to know.

[87] And I, again, I, I think he's going to put $1 ,000 in that account, and that's not what the issue's going to be.

[88] Yeah.

[89] If he started depositing $1 ,000 a month in that account, you'd be right back here in six months.

[90] I don't know if I would be.

[91] I don't, it's really, it's, to me, it's, like you just said, it's not about money.

[92] It's more about, um, respect and I think because this has gone on for so long and you know I've allowed it to go on so long and this pattern's been set now um I want to rewrite the rules I guess well since you're married y 'all get to rewrite them together right and so I think it's a matter of sitting down and having a conversation and say hey we've been married for a few years um I need you to do this right to have me have positive respectful feelings towards you and what can I do for you so that you can have positive, respectful feelings towards me. Let's put all of it on the table.

[93] Let's give each other a chance for success.

[94] Yeah, 100 % of what you don't say, he can't hear.

[95] Right.

[96] Yeah.

[97] I've been married 43 years.

[98] I'm still working on that.

[99] Dave, I am too, man. I am too.

[100] The things that are in Sharon's head that I have never heard are amazing.

[101] But you're in trouble for them.

[102] You better fix them.

[103] What's wrong?

[104] Nothing.

[105] This is The Ramsey Show.

[106] I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[107] Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[108] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

[109] When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week?

[110] Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

[111] Like, it's just, it is.

[112] It's terrible.

[113] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids.

[114] that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[115] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[116] And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[117] It doesn't cost much.

[118] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[119] You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[120] The cost of stinking pizza.

[121] To get a free quote, call 800, 356, 4282.

[122] That's 800, 356, 4282, or go to Xander.

[123] Thank you for joining us America.

[124] Dr. John Deloney.

[125] Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[126] We appreciate you guys hanging out.

[127] Merry Christmas to you.

[128] Hey, if you like what you hear around here, we could use your help.

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[132] right Apple podcast whatever it is maybe you're listening on a radio station out there thank you just share and leave us a five -star review please we'd appreciate it very much Merry Christmas to you Shay is whether Shay is in Daytona hi Shaye Merry Christmas Hi Merry Christmas good how can we help Hi um so just to cut right to the chase I just took out my first student loan ever super nerve -wracking it's for my master's in social work and it's about $45 ,000, that's without the interest.

[133] So I'm just trying to figure out what's a great path to start on that, like how to tackle it super fast because I don't want to be with this yet for like 10 years.

[134] You just took out your first loan for a semester or you just finished a degree program and you have $45 ,000 in the hole?

[135] No, so it's, it's like $6 ,000 a semester, but they just gave it all to me at once.

[136] So it's $45 ,000.

[137] is what they gave me at once.

[138] Who's they?

[139] I've never heard of that ever.

[140] It's financial aid.

[141] FASSA.

[142] So they just cut you a check and deposit it for $45 ,000?

[143] Well, not into my bank.

[144] It goes directly to my school.

[145] And then they start paying it that way.

[146] So it's already given to my school, and my school just takes it out.

[147] Okay.

[148] So you're starting your master's and you just finance the whole thing.

[149] Well, Dave, I bet what's happened is, I bet they have, you've been approved for the entire program.

[150] I bet they don't have a check for 40, I bet your university doesn't have a check for $45 ,000 because they wouldn't prepay like that.

[151] Because you could quit, you can drop out, it could be a whole thing.

[152] But my guess is you were approved for the program and the school gave you a letter that said you've qualified for $45 ,000 in federal aid and every semester, you're going to have to re -up and re -up and re -up and re -up.

[153] Okay.

[154] That's my guess as to what happened.

[155] I've never heard the customer.

[156] You're just starting your master's.

[157] Yes.

[158] And you're spending $45 ,000 to get a master's in social work to make what kind of money?

[159] Not enough.

[160] It's about 90 grand, which would be salary for it.

[161] There's no way you'll make 90 grand.

[162] That is the salary in Florida for it.

[163] Where?

[164] Right now.

[165] I work at a hospital.

[166] And there's a starting social work?

[167] with the LMSW makes $90 ,000?

[168] Not starting out, no, but I've been doing social work and case management and all that stuff for years.

[169] So with the experience, and once I get it, they're going, I'm already making $15 ,000 right now, so they're bumping it up.

[170] Wow.

[171] That's, that's extraordinary.

[172] Good for them, because that's a, that's a field that needs more people that drastically is usually underpaid.

[173] I would, as a guy who's, I've taught graduate school and mental health program, I've lived this world.

[174] What I would plead to you is to you make $50 ,000 a year.

[175] I would cut back for the next three years and cash flow this program.

[176] Please, please, please, please don't chain yourself to the federal government and then try to go into a serving profession.

[177] It's a recipe for burnout and it's just going to melt you from the inside out.

[178] Please don't do this.

[179] Yeah.

[180] Yeah, that was one of my big fears.

[181] It's just like, I definitely don't want it lingering for so long, too.

[182] And when it comes to money, I just have a really bad anxiety over it.

[183] The way it doesn't linger, is you don't take it.

[184] Don't take it.

[185] Don't take the check.

[186] Pay cash for your degree is what John's saying.

[187] $6 ,000 a semester.

[188] Go pay it outright for the three semesters plus your 3 ,000 hours, whatever you have to do.

[189] Your hospital not got any financial matching for education?

[190] No, because I'm not a nurse.

[191] They only have it for nurses.

[192] okay and what enticed me too it was because they said at first that they would and then when I got here they said oh sorry no it's just for nurses yeah I'd find another place to work too while you're at it yeah I'm serious 100 % serious if they're gonna if they're gonna lure you in and then they're gonna bait and switch you I'd that's just a that's a company without integrity I wouldn't work for him mm -hmm gotcha and I know this is a radical shift but I would go to the school and say hey I need my semester by semester cost and they're probably going to tell you, well, it depends if you take six or nine hours, whatever, and say, what is a full -time and was a part -time student going to cost?

[193] And then you make $50 ,000 a year until you find another job where you'll make $60, I want you to cash flow this program.

[194] So what we're trying to tell you is that uneasy feeling inside of you when you called is real.

[195] It's right.

[196] And it's telling you, don't do this.

[197] And we're telling you, it's right.

[198] Don't do it.

[199] The best way to get this degree is pay cash for it and um you know look for someone maybe another maybe another employer that pays 90 when you're out but also uh will help with the education like this one promised but it was reneged on uh and so let let's do a couple things here that are pretty radical but if you kind of just you sound pretty chill and if you kind of just allow all this to happen to you it's going to step on your face don't allow this to happen you need to stand up square your shoulders and head straight into this with your teeth, you know, with a warrior, Yale, girl.

[200] I mean, you need to get after it.

[201] John's in Jackson, Mississippi.

[202] Hey, John, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[203] Hey, Dave, how's it going?

[204] Better than I deserve.

[205] What's up?

[206] I have a question about getting an SBA loan to purchase a business, what's your thoughts on.

[207] That is.

[208] Never.

[209] Never?

[210] Never, under any circumstances.

[211] It's a disaster.

[212] Why would you buy a, why would you buy a business, a small business?

[213] Um, well, so I travel 10 months out of the year, and my wife stays at home with kids and it's a taxing life.

[214] Yeah.

[215] And we're trying to find a happy median for everybody.

[216] And we stumbled what we think is a good opportunity per se.

[217] And we just, uh, what is the industry that the business you're looking at is in?

[218] Uh, making signs.

[219] Okay.

[220] And how much is the purchase?

[221] Uh, approximately 1 .2 million dollars.

[222] Yes, sir.

[223] For a signed franchise?

[224] It's not a franchise.

[225] It's a person that started the business, and he's looking to retire.

[226] Okay.

[227] All right.

[228] Let me give you a different way to skin this cat, maybe.

[229] Okay.

[230] But let me, 80 % of small businesses fail in the first five years.

[231] Okay.

[232] The number one cause of small business failure when we survey them, And we work with 10 ,000 small businesses and Andre leadership right now is what's called cash flow problems.

[233] Cash flow problems is a phrase that means a lot of things, but it primarily means two things.

[234] I can't pay my debt payments, and I didn't pay my taxes on time, and I get screwed by the federal government.

[235] And so you're going to have a million two floating around your neck trying to drag you down while you're trying to run a business.

[236] this guy's already been running for a few years.

[237] And that's like trying to swim with an anchor tied around your ankle.

[238] It's a bad plan.

[239] So let's go at this a different way.

[240] What is the net profit on his business?

[241] He pays himself a salary.

[242] No, what's the net profit on the business?

[243] On average over the last four years is around 250.

[244] Okay.

[245] A million two is a little rich.

[246] Yeah.

[247] Okay.

[248] We know that part.

[249] of it.

[250] We're just, we're in the beginning process and we're trying to figure out what the shit is not do.

[251] Here's how I've taught some people who hand the business to the next generation and want to be bought out or they have to the employee or an employee or a buyer like you that want to be bought out.

[252] I don't want you to get payments on a million two and Fauci decide we're having another quarantine.

[253] Me neither.

[254] Okay, that'll put you into bankruptcy court, sir.

[255] It did a bunch of people.

[256] And because nobody making signs or making plexiglass, They weren't making signs.

[257] So you were screwed if that was, if you'd done this two years ago.

[258] So learn a lesson from that.

[259] Now, what you can do is agree to pay him 80 or 90 % of the profits after you take a basic small salary out until he gets his million.

[260] And about a million is about what it's worth.

[261] But if you make $250 ,000 a year on it and you gave him 90 % of it, you'd have him paid out in four and a half years.

[262] versus getting a loan per se exactly and he'd get his money really really fast that way but you're living on a wage to get till you get him off your back but if profits go down you're only committed to give him a percentage of profits so you're not you're not bankrupt then sba'll come take your house dude fake it till you make it it's popular career advice but it doesn't work for very long if you don't love what you do you can't fake the enthusiasm and energy you need to win it work.

[263] You also can't fake your physical health and energy.

[264] Everybody knows we should eat more fruits and veggies chips don't count.

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[272] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[273] Open phones at AAA 8255 .5.

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[275] Well, it's Christmas time.

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[288] Maggie's in Atlanta.

[289] Hi, Maggie.

[290] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[291] Hey, Dave.

[292] Thanks so much for taking my call.

[293] Sure.

[294] What's up?

[295] Hey, so I'm just calling today.

[296] I've been listening for about two to three months now.

[297] I'm 20 years old.

[298] I've been doing an every dollar budget for about a month now, and I am needing to get my own place.

[299] in, I mean, ASAP, and I don't even know the first place to start preparing for it.

[300] My income is fairly low, and my monthly bills are pretty high.

[301] So I just wanted to call in and see all's advice.

[302] My income is $2 ,300 monthly.

[303] What do you do?

[304] I process medical records right now.

[305] Okay.

[306] And you're 20 years old?

[307] Yes, sir, 20, and I only have a high school.

[308] a high school diploma.

[309] Okay.

[310] Are you looking for new work?

[311] Because your income sucks.

[312] Yeah.

[313] Yeah, it does.

[314] I've been looking around to see what I can do, but with no degree and no degree is not a holdback at all.

[315] Yeah, I live in rural Tennessee.

[316] I saw a sign the other day that said McDonald's said $20 an hour.

[317] Mm -hmm.

[318] Mm -hmm.

[319] Yeah, I do have a side hustle that I am starting.

[320] Um, after the holidays are over, I'm starting a side hustle and that'll be like $15 an hour, but that's only the weekend that I can do a side hustle because my job now is a nine to five.

[321] So what?

[322] What happens after five?

[323] After five is when you work, I have from five a .m. to nine when you're broke.

[324] That's when you work.

[325] Yeah.

[326] Um, I do have a, well, I kind of have a one year old.

[327] My boyfriend um has a one year old kind of have a one year old that's impossible that that's that's that's physically impossible you do it's not your baby you're saying yes your boyfriend has a one year old yeah well that's not i'm sorry baby you're broke you're not you're not babysitting your boyfriend's kid when you're broke and you got to get a place to live and you don't have it you don't have the money right i don't think i have the money to know um right now i'm living with my sister.

[328] I've been out on my own since I was like 17, 18.

[329] I've been living in people's rooms and just renting rooms.

[330] And now I kind of want a place for just me and my boyfriend and his son.

[331] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not in a position to be taking care of people.

[332] No, no. If he wants to get married and take care of you, we'll talk about it.

[333] What does he make?

[334] He's not working right now.

[335] Oh, this is real good.

[336] Maggie, Maggie, are you to hear yourself out loud?

[337] Firefighter.

[338] Yes, sir.

[339] Yeah, yes, sir.

[340] If you were talking to your daughter and your daughter was you, you'd smack her.

[341] Well, I wish my mama would have.

[342] Yeah, I know.

[343] But, I mean, you listen to yourself.

[344] I'm going to move in with a guy who has a one -year -old and doesn't work.

[345] And I have to take care of the kids.

[346] And I'm supposed to take care of these people.

[347] I think you need to go somewhere where there's grown -ups.

[348] why he's not working right now is he's becoming a firefighter so he that doesn't start until the beginning of January though so right now he's just waiting to see so right now he's not in school to be a firefighter he's only waiting for which firehouse he's going to be doing so why is he sitting on his butt during Christmas yeah yeah it's a good question he should be really he should be driving for Uber from 5 to 8 5 a .m. to 8 a .m. date my daughter you work and then work all day and then delivering pizzas at night because that's what men do and they don't have a job and they have a one year old yeah yeah and he hasn't he hasn't worked for about like eight months now i can almost guarantee you i can almost guarantee you he's not going to the fire academy you know how i know firemen don't live like that that's not the character of a fireman i know those men and those women they have they have they work their fire shifts and then they have another job and they have another job on top of that.

[349] You know why?

[350] Because they are so invested in working and going out and serving their communities.

[351] I can almost guarantee you he won't go to the fire academy.

[352] No, he's already gone, hadn't he?

[353] Well, he's waiting to hear back.

[354] Oh, he hasn't started yet.

[355] He hasn't even started the fire academy yet.

[356] He hasn't worked for eight months.

[357] That tells me. Oh, I thought he just finished.

[358] He was waiting to get a job.

[359] Hold on.

[360] He has a one -year -old.

[361] How has he not worked for eight months?

[362] Have you supported him?

[363] Yeah.

[364] Oh, my.

[365] His mom does a lot and then...

[366] Maggie, Maggie, honey.

[367] Maggie, please.

[368] Listen to two old farts, okay?

[369] Both of us have daughters.

[370] Run, run.

[371] As fast as you can.

[372] Run.

[373] Oh, no. Yes.

[374] Oh, yes.

[375] I don't think I hear that.

[376] Okay.

[377] I'm sorry.

[378] I can't help you, darling.

[379] You're running blind into the wall and you're going to blow the car up when you hit it.

[380] Oh, I'm sorry.

[381] Honey, you've been a survivor.

[382] You've bounced from room to room.

[383] You left home at 17 years old.

[384] your mama didn't tell you not to do this stuff two guys who love you and love our daughters are telling you if you were our daughter we would get rid of mr fireman he he would just disappear somewhere we wouldn't be able to find him you're being prayed and so i'm telling you this is not going to happen all right and so uh you need an ugly angry older brother or father like one of us and we would tell him to go away and if he didn't we'd help you go away because you got the stuff to go get it done in the marketplace girl you can go out there get you three jobs get you an apartment start you a life start taking a degree field i'll send you a copy of ken coleman's book from paycheck to purpose you can start working on your career you're sharp talking to you but your judge of men is sucks and when you have a man with the one -year -old who's responsible he doesn't work for eight months we call it a deadbeat a burnout and if you ever listen to me talk on this on my show, I'm overly compassionate.

[385] And I've got zero compassion for a man who's got a toddler who's letting a 20 -year -old girl living in her sister's house take care of them.

[386] Zero, none, zero, zero, zero, zero.

[387] You have a daughter.

[388] You have a child.

[389] Yeah.

[390] My goodness.

[391] Please, Maggie.

[392] He should be ashamed of himself, man. But you're not going to do it, and you're going to learn the hard way.

[393] And you're going to call me up at 25, and you're going to go, yeah, you're right.

[394] and now I've got all this debt because I went and bought him a car and we rented an apartment and he didn't pay the bill and the landlord threw us out and I've got a judgment lien from the landlord and you're going to be that caller if you go through with this.

[395] Please do not go move in with this guy.

[396] If you don't dump him, that's your business.

[397] I think you're on the way to dumping him.

[398] You should be.

[399] But for sure, for God's sake, quit giving him money and don't move in with him.

[400] And let's say this.

[401] So for those of you who have grown up the last five or six years, you're on your own, you're bouncing from room to room to room, and you spend a lot of time on social media, it appears that things just happen.

[402] It appears that bills just get paid.

[403] And what you're finding out is, oh, I only make $2 ,300, but I have an inside job in a medical community, and it feels like I'm connected to something bigger, and I'm not working at McDonald's for God's sakes, or I'm not going to throw boxes at Walmart.

[404] I would never do that.

[405] And you're going to realize that things don't just happen.

[406] You have to make enough money.

[407] It's a math problem to make enough money to pay for your rent and for your water and for your food and for electricity and for your car.

[408] All these things are very expensive, which means you got to go get one job.

[409] You got to get two jobs.

[410] You got to get three jobs.

[411] And then you develop a plan that is a career where you don't have to work 80 hours a week.

[412] There you go.

[413] But it takes a few years to get into that.

[414] But most of us that are older than 30 have worked more than 40.

[415] hours like more than 80 hours the first five years of our working life or 10 of our life um or more yeah and so um and and that's not a you're you have no life balance no i have a life that you wish you freaking had i can tell you that you just wish you had a tenth of my life but i've worked my tail end off to get here that was a good self -censor dave i got that you got it just right there right there right there.

[416] This is The Ramsey Show.

[417] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[418] Hey good folks, the back to school madness is upon us.

[419] It's hitting us right now.

[420] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[421] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[422] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[423] Here's what I've learned.

[424] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[425] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[426] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[427] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[428] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[429] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[430] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[431] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[432] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[433] Never skip therapy day.

[434] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[435] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Doloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[436] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[437] Dr. John Deloney -Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[438] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[439] This show has become inordinately successful with 30 million of you so are so out there in a given month on YouTube's, you know, podcast, on the various platforms, the 680 radio stations that carry us, because we understand that personal finance is not math.

[440] The problem with my money is the guy I shave with.

[441] The mathematics of becoming wealthy are somewhere, you learn them somewhere around the sixth grade.

[442] This is not an intellect problem.

[443] This is a behavior problem.

[444] If I can get the moron in my mirror to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he's got issues.

[445] And he engages in stupid people tricks to the extent that I have dysfunction in my relationships, I'm going to struggle to bill wealth.

[446] to the extent that I have dysfunction in my behaviors like a lack of work ethic, a lack of integrity, other character issues, I'm going to struggle to build wealth to the, and so there is a tie -in between your emotional well -being, your relational acumen, that is more predictive of your ability to become wealthy than your income.

[447] In other words, it doesn't matter what you make if you're addicted to cocaine, you're going to lose everything.

[448] 100 % of addicts, as an example of this discussion, end up broke, eventually, 100%, eventually.

[449] Some in 10 months, some in 10 years and they lose everything that's a misbehavior that caused that it's not a math problem that caused that it wasn't they didn't understand how mutual funds work it wasn't that they didn't earn an income a lot of cocaine addicts earn a great income um and they hide their addiction but if if you don't know how to interact with the opposite sex and you continually choose poorly in your mate, you are going to make it almost impossible to create a sustainable financial life.

[450] Isn't that weird?

[451] Yeah, and I'm just haunted by like that last call haunts me because when you say it, like you won't accept this for your own child.

[452] Everyone goes, no, I would never accept that.

[453] But you just become blind to it.

[454] And you just keep doing it.

[455] You just keep doing it.

[456] you keep doing it and you wonder you keep going back to the the money the money issue why are we broke why are we broke why we broke you got to you got to let this predator who is praying on you in your time uh you got to let him go i ain't doing that all right well there's not there's not like a crypto secret we can tell you to help you make money there's not like a budgeting hack we can give you um you and him have to go work it's just tough man if you're not connected with your spouse it can be it can be a relational thing i mean I mean, it's, you know, one of the jokes that we had in the early days of the show was, you know, if you marry a woman that likes spending, you better enjoy working.

[457] Right.

[458] You know, and so, but it's also the opposite way.

[459] Absolutely.

[460] If you marry a man that likes spending, you better enjoy working.

[461] And so, because you can't, but you cannot earn it and you can't keep up.

[462] And the correlation among millionaires between spouses that work together and that both shoulder the load together, it's almost a hundred.

[463] 100 % of them.

[464] There are very few people build wealth dragging a deadbeat along or dragging someone who's misbehaving in some area of their life along, someone who won't work, someone who can't tell the truth, someone that won't file their taxes, someone that, you know, lies all the time.

[465] You know, just these dysfunctional people that are in all of our lives to the extent that they are, that were wrapped up with them pretty much ensures that we're going to create a situation where you can't build a sustainable financial situation.

[466] And one of the reasons I've been able to build wealth is my wife is a freaking rock.

[467] She's a rock.

[468] I mean, the amount of drama in 43 years I've had at home when I got home at night with little kids at home was precisely zero.

[469] The only drama in my house, I bring it.

[470] Occasionally there was drama before I got there, but it's not like wait till your daddy gets home.

[471] No, fear the wrath of Sharon instead.

[472] You know, I mean, it's like, there is not a, you know, I was not having to carry three or four things around while I was at work.

[473] I was carrying work around.

[474] And it's why we were able to make such progress.

[475] Yeah, it's, it's fun.

[476] They say that the, one of the greatest, um, determinants for joy, happiness in your life is marrying well.

[477] It's the most important decision you make because marrying poorly um it's disproportionate how bad your life is and marrying well it's disproportionate how wonderful it makes your life but our friend dr henry cloud with the book boundaries whether it is your marriage partner or not just the other people in your life your business partner your your buddy suck the marrow out of your bones right because you won't put up a boundary right or for some reason don't know to put up a boundary you weren't raised in such a way well i was raised you always take care of daddy well uh did you notice that your daddy is a problem right or um well that's just so and so like stop that's just the way he is i would love a great exercise for folks is to write down the the top five to 10 to 15 people in your life they can be co -workers they can be family members they can be friends if you're lucky you got 10 in this current world we live in if you got if you're exceptionally lucky if you got 15 write them down and just draw a line across the paper and say vampire or contributor.

[478] Is this a person that when I get done being around them, I'm just like, ugh, or I get done being around them and I can't wait to go hang out again.

[479] They are somebody that brings me up.

[480] And I challenge you in 2024 to find opportunities to be around vampire people less.

[481] Yeah.

[482] And be around those who pour into you, who are excited, who challenge you more.

[483] And that doesn't mean you get along all the time.

[484] Like some of the people who contribute most of my life, man, we are buttonheads all the time.

[485] And I love them.

[486] And I believe this very similar things with some of the most vampiric people I just made that word up that just you get done.

[487] You're just like, golly, dude.

[488] I feel like I was just slogging through quicksand.

[489] I mean, when you come out of a meeting or you come out of a social gathering with someone and you feel like you need to take a shower, I don't want to repeat this.

[490] Right.

[491] I'm done.

[492] Right.

[493] And my wife's like, well, we need to be nice.

[494] We need to be nice to us.

[495] I'm not going to be nice.

[496] I can be nice from a further distance.

[497] I'll wave from over there, you know.

[498] But this, this close physical proximity with slime is a problem.

[499] Yeah.

[500] You know, and it's, you know, and it's okay.

[501] I'm not, I'm not, I'm a snob.

[502] No, I like you, but I'm not going to hang out.

[503] Yeah, I'm, it's, it's, I can be nice to you.

[504] I can help you.

[505] I love you.

[506] I'm not going to, I can encourage you, but I'm not going, you're not going to be part of my crew.

[507] That's right.

[508] Yeah.

[509] Because you become who you hang around with.

[510] And if you find out that you're married to somebody who is more of a vampire than a contributor.

[511] This is the year.

[512] Let this be the year that you put that on the table and say, let's build something new.

[513] Let's build something new.

[514] I'm taking your sharp teeth.

[515] Yeah.

[516] Well, or like the first caller of this hour that I'm going to be clear for the first time because I find myself, I don't like you.

[517] I don't want to be around you.

[518] The things you do annoy me and I kind of hem and hawn hint, I've never just been honest with you.

[519] I've just never told you.

[520] Let's put all that on the table this year.

[521] And decide to heal this thing moving forward.

[522] Because at some point, there are people on the margins that are struggling.

[523] That's not who I'm talking to.

[524] I'm talking to most of us.

[525] Most of us at some point choose the relationships we have.

[526] And we choose the dance that we choose to do in those things.

[527] And at some point, somebody's got to pull the rip cord and say, this one's over.

[528] This one's over.

[529] We're going to build something new.

[530] And the reason for the sidebar right now is this.

[531] This is the time of year to look at this and say, okay, I want you to leave from this little rant that we've done for the last five minutes.

[532] I want you to leave with this idea.

[533] Who you hang around with and who you are going to create relationship with is 100x more important towards whether you're able to build wealth than whether you understand how a mutual fund works or what your income is.

[534] They're going to screw up your life if you let them.

[535] This is The Ramsey Show.

[536] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[537] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney show, one of our more popular podcasts on the Ramsey Network's number one bestselling author of Building a Non -Axious Life is the latest number one that we did with him.

[538] It's a great book.

[539] He's my co -host today.

[540] Open phones at AAA -825 -25 -225.

[541] Merry Christmas America.

[542] Travis is in Baltimore.

[543] Hi, Travis.

[544] How are you?

[545] Hey, John.

[546] Thanks for having me. Sure.

[547] I'll make it as quick as I can.

[548] 31 years old, married.

[549] We have two kids.

[550] We don't own a home yet.

[551] Currently, five weeks into Financial Peace University, we've paid off $1 ,000 of our debt so far.

[552] We have currently $44 ,000 in debt.

[553] My question for you is, my previous employer had a profit sharing system set up so in March I've been away from them for a year now I went back over the road so in March I can decide whether I want to roll money over to something or if I want to cash out however I want to do it I have $51 ,000 in that account should I or could I use that money to wipe out baby step number two and start baby step number three and freebie.

[554] I think that's a qualified plan, meaning it's a type of retirement plan.

[555] Am I right?

[556] Yes.

[557] So if you cash it out early, you're going to get a 10 % penalty plus your tax rate.

[558] So what do you make a year?

[559] What's your household income?

[560] So I make $100 ,000.

[561] My wife works part -time.

[562] She makes about $20.

[563] Okay.

[564] All right.

[565] And so you're in 35 % tax bracket.

[566] So you're going to pay 35 % plus 10 % on the money.

[567] so it's kind of mathematically like asking hey Dave I want to borrow money at 45 % interest to pay off some of my debt that would be a dumb thing right so we're not going to do that yeah we're going to roll it over go to ramsie solutions and click on smart vester pro and find a good uh a good a good financial broker in your area that we recommend that you can sit down with and help you do that rollover and you need to roll it over into an IRA and not pay any taxes on it at all and let it grow.

[568] I just don't want to give up half the money or so to the government in the name of getting out of debt.

[569] That's a bad plan.

[570] But you're making 120 and you're only 044, right?

[571] And you're just getting started.

[572] So the good news is you've gone into attack mode.

[573] And if you just keep turning up the heat on the attack mode, you'll probably be debt free in under two years.

[574] Okay Hey Travis Can I challenge you a bit I'm sorry Can I challenge you a little bit Sure You've been in the week You've been in the class five weeks Yeah tonight is Week number five yes Excellent So you make a 120 grand How have you only paid off a hundred I mean Have you only paid off a thousand bucks Do you have a pretty expensive lifestyle You're living?

[575] Well No You know, we started budgeting with every dollar, and we literally just started.

[576] Okay.

[577] So, John's point is this.

[578] If you look at the big number, 120 minus 44 would be like $76 ,000.

[579] If you lived on $76 ,000 for one year, you'd be debt free, not counting taxes, okay?

[580] Right.

[581] So that's his point, and that's not $1 ,000 a month.

[582] that's more like $4 ,000 a month.

[583] So I challenge you to get radical.

[584] Find what you can sell in your house.

[585] Do you have tractors?

[586] I want you to lean down.

[587] That's what I'm saying.

[588] I think you're going to lean down into that budget.

[589] If you did it in two years, that's $2 ,000 a month.

[590] But $1 ,000 a month's not enough out of your budget.

[591] You need to cut more than that and get after the debt.

[592] So, but all of that to say, that's the way to go.

[593] John's exactly right.

[594] And let's go ahead and roll that money over so you don't give the government.

[595] them and half of that and then just you know beans and rice rice and beans we're not going out to eat we're not going on vacation we're going to attack this using the every dollar budget and we're going to get it cleared up and for the first time in your life you're going to be free and it's going to be worth it it's going to be a complete pain in the butt for the next 18 to 24 months but it's going to be worth it hey thanks for calling in man joe's weather's in atlanta hi joe welcome to the Ramsey show hey Dave hey John nice to talk to you guys you too what's up yes so I got a question this is about 529 plan I have two kids one six one four and then we just found out we have two coming next year so we'll have a total four yay all right yeah yeah yeah pretty exciting once we got over the shock of having two at a time but So my question is, we have a surplus of funds for this year.

[596] We are 100 % debt -free, no mortgage, no cars, no debts of any kind, no credit card.

[597] I hate it when it happens.

[598] I know, it's hard.

[599] Would you run for Congress?

[600] If I have any interest, I would.

[601] He's like, I'm thinking, Dave, but I'm also thinking about setting myself on fire.

[602] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[603] So my question is, on the Georgia 529 plan, it's tax deductible up to $8 ,000 per kid per year.

[604] And we can only have two right now because I think you need a Social Security number for each account you set up.

[605] You do.

[606] You're right.

[607] Would you recommend, so we have a good amount of extra, just putting a lump, I know we can put more in than 8 ,000.

[608] Would you consider putting like 50 grand in for each kid and just being done with it?

[609] Yeah.

[610] Or put it somewhere else, and then every year put a little bit more in.

[611] No, I mean, you can do that.

[612] The downside is 529, of course, has to be used for education, and any growth on the money is going to be taxed if you pull it out for something other than, and penalized if you pull it out for something other than education.

[613] So that's your downside.

[614] So along with making a commitment to put 50 grand, which pretty well finishes it up if you're doing this for young children, that'll be it.

[615] They can cover undergrad with that.

[616] You're done.

[617] Check the box.

[618] You're out.

[619] And I know they can, I'm not sure if this is a new rule, but you can do $10 ,000 a year for a private school K through 12.

[620] I believe that's what it is.

[621] So if we would do like high school, private school.

[622] That's true.

[623] You could drain it down doing that.

[624] But if you don't put them in private school and they don't go to college, you got some money trapped in there.

[625] That's my only point.

[626] And that's okay.

[627] We just say that out loud, which means when I started my kids' college funds, they were young like yours, and I just brainwashed them.

[628] I said, this is your college fund.

[629] It's your college fund, which presupposes you're going to college.

[630] And so, you know, we weren't going to college and study left -handed puppetry.

[631] We're going to go study something that actually works in the marketplace, right?

[632] We don't want to get some nuanced, useless, freaking degree, and then be a barista.

[633] That's not the plan.

[634] But, yeah, all of that.

[635] Yeah, I would do that.

[636] I would do that.

[637] And now, with a Georgia 529, do not do the prepaid tuition.

[638] You do not do that.

[639] You're investing in mutual funds that you control the options and that you can decide where they go to school.

[640] You're not, you're not trapped in with prepaid.

[641] Don't do prepaid.

[642] That's not a good deal because the rate of returns suck on that.

[643] So, and your options are very limited.

[644] So good question, man. Thanks for calling.

[645] Thank you for joining us, America.

[646] This is the Ramsey Show.

[647] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[648] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host.

[649] Tonya's with us in Philadelphia.

[650] Hi, Tonya.

[651] What's up?

[652] Hi.

[653] So I'm calling because I have a question.

[654] So I'm 25 years old.

[655] I'm a single mother.

[656] My income is about $47 ,000 a year.

[657] And I have about $18 ,000.

[658] in debt.

[659] I have $16 ,000 of that is a vehicle that was, they have it as a repo on my credit because I had a car accident and it was totaled and the person who crashed me didn't have full coverage and I didn't have full coverage either.

[660] So I'm in a situation where the car that I have right now has.

[661] 192 ,000 miles on it so it's going out on me and I'm in need of a new vehicle and being that I have that repo on my credit I'm having a hard time getting approved for another vehicle good it's the greatest thing that ever happened to you honey last thing you needs a car payment kiddo you're broke yeah but you do need a car yes wait when you say it's going out on you my truck has 197 ,000 miles on it.

[662] Is it just ugly, or is it falling apart?

[663] No, it's not ugly.

[664] It's just starting to fall apart on me. Like, I just put 1 ,500 into it trying to fix it, and it's still giving me problems.

[665] Okay.

[666] All right.

[667] So the car is probably worth, what, $2 ,000?

[668] No, not even.

[669] With the problems that it has, not even.

[670] And you said you make what?

[671] About 47.

[672] Okay.

[673] How many kids?

[674] got just one old he's three he's four okay who watches him when you work um he is a daycare okay so um yeah because what i'm the reason i'm asking is i'm trying to find you some money because i want you to scrape together like you found the 1500 to fix the car i want you scraped together 1500 to two thousand dollars sell your car for two thousand dollars and buy a four thousand dollar car which is a better than you've got now, but no car payments.

[675] Okay.

[676] And then I want you to do that again about a year from now.

[677] Okay.

[678] I don't want you to drive that car the rest of your life, but car payments are going to hold you back so much.

[679] It sounds like it's going to be, you're just so sick of having a crappy car that's unreliable and the stress that goes with that, it makes you jump ahead and in your mind just having something this reliable is worth the pain of the payment.

[680] And I'm trying to tell you before you get there, it's not.

[681] Yeah, no, I'm just getting to the point where like I'm a little frustrated.

[682] Yeah.

[683] You know, you're a lot frustrated.

[684] I would be.

[685] I'm frustrated with you.

[686] Yeah.

[687] I understand and I agree with your frustration.

[688] I don't want it to lead you to a bad decision and it's about to.

[689] So let's avoid car payments.

[690] I'm so glad you did not get approved because if you had gotten approved it would have been at a high rip -off subprime interest rate because you have a repo on your record yeah and so you would have been a screwed double yeah yeah don't do that to yourself let's go pay cash for a the difference in a four thousand dollar car and a two thousand dollar car is very dramatic yeah okay now are you in a good church um i do i do a type of church do you have some guys around anywhere that could be your ugly uncle for a day or two and help you help you pick out a reliable car and not let someone mess with you because they think they can but instead the ugly uncle standing there and saying you know this is this car is not real pretty but it's a really good reliable mechanical car that's the one you buy when you're buying a four thousand dollar car we're not trying to buy sex appeal we want reliability Of course Yeah And sometimes when you're negotiating with someone on that People are sexist And they'll do stuff for an old ugly uncle They wouldn't do for a sweet young lady Yeah Or put a note in your church bulletin Or let your folks know I'm looking for a great I'm a single mom with a three -year -old And I need a reliable $4 ,000 car Would someone help me find one Okay You'll have people that raise their hand Yeah, you might have somebody give you one.

[691] Hey, and by the way, you don't like asking for help, do you?

[692] I'm not.

[693] I am actually a police officer, so that's really hard for me to be that kind of person to, you know, like, reach out and ask for help.

[694] All right, hold on.

[695] This is important.

[696] You have cast, quote, unquote, those kind of people as people who ask for help.

[697] I want you to reframe that.

[698] I want you to know that the wisest people I know ask other wise people for support and help about things they don't know.

[699] Okay.

[700] And so it's not those people that ask for help.

[701] It's you.

[702] It's me. It's Dave.

[703] It's all of us.

[704] The wisest people I know reach out to other wise people and say, hey, what do you think about this?

[705] Can you help me out with this?

[706] And so this is you stepping into a whole identity.

[707] I don't go in and negotiate on something myself and I'm a really good business guy and a real good negotiator, but I don't go into an item or a situation that I know nothing about the ex I don't have any expertise in I bring along the old ugly uncle myself okay and that's a really ugly uncle for Dave to bring up if Dave says he's an ugly uncle oh my god yeah well you know that's you bring in the heavy you bring in somebody beside you and so if I'm negotiating on a tech thing.

[708] I don't know nothing about tech.

[709] I got 400 people at work here that do that, though.

[710] And so I'm going to bring in my top guy who's going to razzle -dazzle him with his academic and says all the tech words, right?

[711] And they're like, oh, God, these people know what they're doing.

[712] You know, but when they're looking at me, they're pretty sure I don't.

[713] Well, and similarly, I guess the, the appearance is we have all the answers to every one of life's questions, a bunch of acres behind my place went up for sale and I immediately thought oh yeah I know a guy his name's Dave and I work with him and so I said Dave this is what they're asking and you said that's too much and so I moved on right and so it's every wise person I know asks otherwise people I don't know anybody that knows middle Tennessee real estate better than you do and so why would I I would be foolish not ask ask you that question right so ask people in your life for support and help however you can man whether it's wisdom or whether it's hey need to come help me do this thing that I can't I can do it better.

[714] I can do it better with you than I can do it by myself.

[715] That's right.

[716] And that's all we're saying.

[717] And yeah, and thank you, thank you for being a policeman in Philadelphia.

[718] Police woman.

[719] And police person, whatever we call that.

[720] I don't know.

[721] I cannot figure out how to do it.

[722] But anyway, but anyway, I was trying to be nice and then John screwed it up.

[723] Got all woke.

[724] I see.

[725] Yeah.

[726] All right.

[727] Anyway.

[728] Yeah.

[729] Good stuff.

[730] Open phones at AAA, 825 -25 -2 -2 -25.

[731] So, guys, here's the thing.

[732] Cars, her situation with cars is a big deal.

[733] We did the exact thing.

[734] I did exactly this.

[735] A guy loaned me a car that was probably worth $300 because I didn't have a car.

[736] Well, I had one, and I needed a second one.

[737] And it was a 1978 Cadillac with $478 ,000 actual miles on it.

[738] The vinyl roof was torn loose across the front.

[739] So when you drove it, it filled up with air and looked like a flying parachute.

[740] and the predominant color was Bondo.

[741] That's the car I was driving.

[742] When you're driving that car, anything is moving up.

[743] A $1 ,000 car is moving way up.

[744] And I got a $1 ,000 car.

[745] I did.

[746] And I gave my buddy his car back.

[747] It was a loner.

[748] He loaned it to me for a month.

[749] And I found $1 ,000 miraculously because I wasn't driving that.

[750] I could see you honking down.

[751] I had been driving a Jaguar.

[752] And I went bankrupt.

[753] And now I'm driving Bondo buggy with a parachute on top and but I drove it to a thousand dollars and then three months later I bought a $3 ,000 car five months later I bought a $10 ,000 car and every time I just move up a little bit but the difference in a $10 ,000 car and a $1 ,000 car is very dramatic it's significant it's very dramatic I could just and none of that was with car payments I did it picture you driving down the street honking the horn look shirt I got a thousand dollar car when you pull up to the stoplight and your top is settling and people are looking at you, you just turn up the rap music, right?

[754] I mean, come on, man. This is the Ramsey Show.

[755] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[756] Thank you for joining us, America.

[757] Merry Christmas.

[758] The Ramsey Show, question of the day, is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services, from repairs and maintenance to remodeling and upgrades.

[759] Neighborly's trusted home service providers have trained local experts to handle almost any job.

[760] great company.

[761] Download the neighborly app and connect today.

[762] Right, today's question comes from Sandra in Florida.

[763] Sandra writes, my spouse's spending is crippling our finances and our marriage.

[764] Each month we have only about five to six hundred left after monthly bills and minimum debt payments and we only have a thousand dollars saved.

[765] I've tried to speak lovingly to my husband and let him know how much the overspending scares me and affects my mental health.

[766] I've also had moments of frustration and have blamed him for financial struggles, which I realize is not a healthy approach.

[767] Seems all my efforts and approaches are futile.

[768] I understand the Ramsey principles behind joint accounts and have lived this way for years, but at what point in my marriage do I say enough and separate myself financially?

[769] Right before divorce.

[770] Yeah.

[771] Yeah.

[772] And I think we're here.

[773] I think we're close.

[774] This is way bigger, Dave, than, uh, I'm glad she, I'm glad she had the courage to write, is crippling our finances and our marriage.

[775] Because this of behavior tells me there's other issues of that marriage it's not just money yeah this guy is kind of got the axis of the world stopped through the top of his head everything spins around him he's the most important thing that ever lived then i'm telling you his mama told him that yep and um and now um nobody tells him anything yeah um i just can't imagine dave i again i don't have a psychology for this.

[776] I can't imagine Sheila taking me out and saying anything I'm doing.

[777] You're scaring me to death.

[778] And me going, yeah, I don't care.

[779] I just, I don't have that in my, I don't have that in my body.

[780] I don't understand that.

[781] I don't understand how you could respond to anybody that way.

[782] If the, if the waitress at at Waffle House sat down and said, hey, the way you're doing things scares me and I'm not, I don't feel safe, I don't, I don't think I could be like, I don't care.

[783] Like, I just don't have that in me, man. So I don't understand this dude at all.

[784] What a scumbag.

[785] I just don't get it.

[786] Don't get it.

[787] So, yeah, it could be just an immaturity.

[788] Could be a lot of things in all seriousness, all, once I get past all my frustration and my name calling.

[789] But the, um, so there's two issues with this email.

[790] Number one, you guys need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

[791] And if he won't go, go by.

[792] yourself so that you can start to get language to how you're going to decide how much longer you're going to do this because my experience with this and I'm not a counselor and I'm not trained like John is but for 30 years I've done this and sat with couples and my experience is particularly ladies more so than men they reach an end point and it boils and boils and then suddenly they go over the edge and the switch flips and once it flips there's no getting her back right she's done when she's done and she's like like roadkill it's over it's done and you can't get it back and you're going to reach that boiling point if you don't do it intentionally with some help with a good coach a good marriage counselor to give you words to do this in a very wise and reasonable way it's all it's going to sneak up on you and him and you're just going to go I'm done When somebody says the word futile, everything I've tried, is for not, is for nothing.

[793] Yeah, that's lost hope.

[794] That's lost hope.

[795] That's right.

[796] And so you're getting really close.

[797] And I'm telling you, if there's a chance that you save this marriage, it's going to be with some help guiding you through how to communicate to him if you can get through to Jellow Brain here and get him to do this.

[798] Okay.

[799] Now, if you can and you turn it around, that's great.

[800] That's thing one.

[801] That's the route to go.

[802] hidden inside of this email is the question that I've been asked a bunch of times is a separate issue that how can I handle my money separately in a messed up marriage and it be okay and the answer is you can't you've got to make the marriage okay if you want to have prosperity in your relationships and prosperity in your net worth it has to be done from a functional standpoint, not surviving a bunch of misbehavior and still prospering in spite of it.

[803] That just doesn't happen in my experience.

[804] We see almost never does someone overcome this guy not changing, and somehow you create a tactical way to separate your money, and while you're still married to him, and he continues to do the exact same thing, somehow you go off and become a millionaire.

[805] That does not happen.

[806] that's just that's mythology there's not a tactic a legal document a process that causes you to be able to swim with an anchor around your ankle and so you guys have got to work through this or work your way out of it to be able to have a great life for both of you and he's i think it's important to call out this husband is not um being a person of fidelity he is not upholding the marriage vows that said till sickness um to sickness um to sickness and health um till death do his part um this is ours mine is yours and yours is mine he's not doing that um he's saying i really don't care about you i just don't um and it breaks my heart for you sandra breaks my heart sad very sad josh is in illinois hi josh what's up hi dad i really appreciate you giving me your time i'm I'm going to try to make this quick.

[807] Sure.

[808] So in 2021, so my family and I have always used a tax assistant to file our taxes.

[809] Now, in 2021, apparently the taxes of both my dad and myself were filed incorrectly.

[810] And basically, it's showing on at first the CP 2000 notice, now it's CP 3219A.

[811] It's showing zero dollars was shown on return for several of my employers.

[812] and then when it says reported by others, and then it gives how much money I paid.

[813] And the increase in tax or the deficiency on this is $9 ,548, and then a substantial tax understatement penalty is $583.

[814] Now, my question is...

[815] So the guy that did your taxes calculated your taxes wrong?

[816] That may very well be the case.

[817] Is that what you're telling you?

[818] telling me, I'm asking you, I'm making sure I understand what you're saying.

[819] Yes, yes, the taxes were filed incorrectly.

[820] Okay, and so you have a $10 ,000 tax bill that you didn't think you had.

[821] Right, and this was from 2021, and ever since 2021, even though they just found it, they've been charging interest and...

[822] Yeah, that's what they do.

[823] Like that.

[824] Yeah.

[825] But the bottom line is, is if they had been filed correctly, you would have owed $10 ,000.

[826] Correct.

[827] Correct.

[828] We received the refunds that we probably should not have received yet.

[829] Right.

[830] And did you go, and have you had another tax professional, look at the return, and make sure that the IRS's proclamation is accurate?

[831] Yes, sir, and here's the thing, actually.

[832] We know that this is accurate because it was a lady that did our returns that year.

[833] We are actually doing business right now with her sister.

[834] and not only did this original lady ghost, our family over all this, she's not even talking to her sister anymore, and her and her sister had a fallen out over this.

[835] That doesn't mean anything.

[836] It doesn't matter, doesn't matter.

[837] I'm asking the question, have you had a tax professional that knows what the flip they're doing this time, actually go over this return and verify that you do owe $9 ,500 plus penalties?

[838] Yes, and so the sister is reliable.

[839] Right.

[840] You think?

[841] Why?

[842] Is she an enrolled agent, a CPA?

[843] What is she?

[844] She's an enrolled agent.

[845] Okay.

[846] All right.

[847] So you had a tax bill all along.

[848] You just didn't know it, and it's cost you $500.

[849] In addition to that.

[850] You're just going to pay it, man. I mean, not a lot you can do about this.

[851] They're not liable for your tax bill because they calculated it wrong.

[852] Are they liable for the penalty?

[853] Maybe.

[854] You might get $500 out of them, but it's not worth the dead -gum trust.

[855] trouble.

[856] Everybody in this story makes no sense.

[857] Yeah.

[858] So, you know, yeah, I would just pay it.

[859] I mean, you could get an attorney trying to get 500 bucks out of the deadbeat if you want, but I don't, that's not.

[860] You'll pay more than $500 in fees.

[861] You're going to pay more $500 and have a meeting.

[862] This is the Ramsey show.

[863] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[864] Open phones at AAA 825 -225.

[865] Renee and Edward are with us in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

[866] Hey, guys, how are you?

[867] Okay, we're good.

[868] How are you?

[869] Good.

[870] How can we help?

[871] So last year, my wife ran in an apartment, and she's really sick.

[872] She has mold poisoning.

[873] She went, and the property manager guaranteed her an apartment that was mold free.

[874] She moved in.

[875] Three weeks later, had to move out, go to the emergency room, extremely sick from mold.

[876] She hired a independent mold inspector who came in, you know, Test results showed that the place was unlivable, toxic mold, and needed remediation.

[877] So the property manager said she could move out, pay an extra month's rent, and she'd release her from her lease agreement.

[878] Well, yesterday, we get a call from the credit company, a credit collector, and saying she owes them almost $4 ,000.

[879] And it's $5 ,000.

[880] Well, right, they're willing to settle for $3 ,800.

[881] So I'm not confused why your wife.

[882] moved out and run in an apartment.

[883] I'm confused.

[884] Because we were separated.

[885] Oh, okay.

[886] That makes sense.

[887] And now you're back together.

[888] Right.

[889] Yeah, because of this.

[890] Because of the mold?

[891] Because I had nowhere to go.

[892] Oh, okay.

[893] So my question, Dave, is should they're threatening that this, if she doesn't pay this, it'll ruin her credit, which is obvious.

[894] But should she pay them?

[895] she can fight it does she not worry about her credit but I can't work right now I'm still very very sick so I can't work okay what is your financial situation I assume you don't have any money well I mean we're debt free I work he makes good money he makes plenty money yeah I mean she lives with me she doesn't work she's sick but when she gets well she wants to move out so she doesn't want her credit ruined okay well obviously the lesson learned is you didn't get it in writing you got a verbal from the landlord right right right so that's the lesson learned this would have been a lot easier the landlord is an individual or a manager of a complex is the property manager of the complex but not the property management company which is the one trying to collect the right but this guy's an employee of them yeah yeah okay all right so um hardball would sound like this uh contact an attorney um the first thing i would do is the two of you get in the car right over and meet with this manager they made you this promise okay in person and say look you told me we were out now i'm getting how hassled for five grand here this isn't the five i'm not going to pay the five grand you told me we were out i'll put you on the stand as a witness and if you unless you're willing to perjure yourself which is a criminal act you will tell the court that you said i was out of the lease at which point i will be out of the lease and so you need to get with your team over here and get this collection's effort stopped and i need in writing from you in the next couple of days that this is all going away and there's no problem.

[896] If you do that, I will not sue you for my medical bills because you misled me and put me in an apartment with mold.

[897] If you do not do this, and I'm not out of this instantly, my attorney is going to sue you personally, sue your company for my lost wages and my medical bills and for release of this.

[898] But I don't want to play that.

[899] I would rather you just keep your word and your company keep your word and release me and we'll go on our way right in person very clear do not raise your voice do not use swear words but very direct with deep eye contact representing anger okay you follow me so this was over a year ago and that you know that's assumption that that same i don't care this is your best place to start this is the cheapest way to fix this okay because people that think when you get lawyers and you get into the court system that you get justice there is no such thing the only one that gets justice is the lawyer's kid whose tuition gets paid by you okay this is not going to go anywhere else so but if you have to hire an attorney and go after these people you go after them for your lost wages because they fraudulently misrepresented and cost you your health So we're not only going to go for release of the lease.

[900] We're going to go for compensation on top of that.

[901] We're going to make your freaking life miserable if you make me make a hobby out of you.

[902] Right.

[903] Right.

[904] We don't want to do any of this.

[905] You don't want to do it.

[906] I don't want to do it.

[907] They don't want to do it.

[908] And they need to hear that real clearly from you.

[909] The best thing they can do is just quickly get me a piece of paper.

[910] It says I owe you zero.

[911] And I will simultaneously release you from your liability for lying to me and making me sick.

[912] Yeah.

[913] I'd probably have a manila folder with your medical bills, the report from the mold folks, too.

[914] And I would ask him in that office to print off all of the bills he sent you over the last calendar year, because it's probably going to be zero.

[915] Okay.

[916] All right.

[917] So subsequent to that, let's assume that that person is no longer employed there, which is most likely, like the scenario.

[918] Well, then talk to the current manager there and tell him what happens.

[919] happen and tell them what you're going to do and let that manager see if if i'm the manager sitting there and you tell me that i'm going to the regional manager who turned this over to collections and go look the dupus that was here before me screwed this lady she's giving us an opportunity to get off light we need to let her go right okay in in the event they don't get a lawyer well okay but the collection guy the guy from the collection company he's an idiot side of their they're no longer involved like it's now in collections bull crap that's what they all say I don't give a crap what the collection agency is an idiot just move on that guy's he sits in a cubicle and calls people that don't pay their bills all day he's got no power at all okay the company turned this over to collections they did not sell it they still own the problem they just hired a hit man the hit man's got no ability to do anything but pull the trigger.

[920] You don't negotiate with the hitman.

[921] You go to the mob boss and get the hip man called off.

[922] Yeah, you're right.

[923] And all of this sits on some manufactured principle you guys are carrying around that I just want to burst a slow bubble for you.

[924] Who cares about your stupid credit?

[925] Nobody cares.

[926] Don't borrow money.

[927] And whenever you decide to move back out, you're going to need first and last month's rent.

[928] You're going to figure out work.

[929] You're going to figure out money.

[930] And then you're going to pay them.

[931] You're going to move on with your life.

[932] Yeah.

[933] Right, but if I don't have credit, how could I do that, right?

[934] You don't need credit.

[935] You don't need credit.

[936] It's a myth.

[937] People rent apartments every day without credit with first and last month's rent.

[938] Really?

[939] Because everything I've ever tried, they wanted to see my credit.

[940] Really, we called 22 apartments the other day around here as a test and found every one of them but two would rent to you.

[941] And that was over the phone.

[942] That was just over the phone without even tell.

[943] I mean, I'm new.

[944] I'm moving to town.

[945] I'm moving out.

[946] My husband and I are separating.

[947] I've got a job.

[948] I make first and last month's rent.

[949] I got no credit.

[950] And they'll rent to you, you know, and just go on.

[951] Now, corporate idiots like you've been dealing with are the ones that won't.

[952] They'll pull a credit bureau on you.

[953] But look, you've got to go deal with this.

[954] If you don't deal with it, it's not going to get anything but worse.

[955] And so get over there.

[956] Why not?

[957] It's Christmas time.

[958] Go over there this week.

[959] Sit down.

[960] Go look.

[961] If it's the moron that was here before you do, it's not your fault.

[962] But he made a promise.

[963] And we're going to hold your company to that promise.

[964] And if you don't, then we're going to sue you for the health issues.

[965] And, you know, I don't, I'm not contacted an attorney yet, but I'm leaving here and going to contact one unless you tell me you think you can get this fixed.

[966] And every email that was sent around this is going to be public record.

[967] So all those emails that he sent his bosses and everything anybody ever said on a text or said on an email is going to be part of the deposition.

[968] Let them know.

[969] We're going to completely give you an anal exam.

[970] That's what's going to happen.

[971] Get ready.

[972] and that's how that's what lawsuits look like there ain't no fun nobody enjoys the process oh my gosh this is the ramsie show from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships i'm dave ramsie your host dr john deloney ramsay personality is our co -host today Number one, bestselling author of the book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and the latest one, building a non -anxious life.

[973] He's also the host of the Dr. John Deloney Show where we talk about mental health issues and relationship things.

[974] So we're here to help you today, guys.

[975] Merry Christmas.

[976] Glad you're with us.

[977] Ozzy is up this hour.

[978] Ozzy's in El Paso, Texas.

[979] Hi, Ozzie.

[980] How are you?

[981] She's going off the rails.

[982] Thank you for taking my call.

[983] This is really awesome.

[984] Cool.

[985] I was going to make an Ozzy Osbourne joke, but I screwed up, so there we go.

[986] What's up, Ozzie?

[987] Hey, guys, as I listened to you guys, like about three months ago with my wife, we saw you guys on YouTube, and I think this is the best thing ever.

[988] Well, thank you.

[989] Thank you, Dave.

[990] So we're working on baby steps, and basically we have about $25 ,000 a student debt and $20 ,000 in car loans.

[991] And basically, my question is, should I extend my lease in my apartment to pay those off and then get a house?

[992] Or should I put it down payment?

[993] Okay.

[994] We tell folks not to buy a house while you're in debt because it's going to cause you to buy a different house than you would buy if you were debt free.

[995] And if you move into a house with a bunch of student loan payments and a car payment, the first week you're there, the hot water heater will go out.

[996] Okay.

[997] Yeah, you just want to have everything cleaned up to where when you move into the house, the house is a blessing.

[998] So, yeah, extend your lease and lean in, get on that every dollar budget, cut down to nothing on your lifestyle, let's get this debt cleaned up as fast as you can.

[999] So it sounds like you got 40 -something thousand in debt.

[1000] Did I hear that right?

[1001] Yes, sir.

[1002] Okay, and what's your household income?

[1003] We make about 120.

[1004] Okay.

[1005] So how fast you think you're going to pay this off?

[1006] Really fast.

[1007] What's really fast?

[1008] I think maybe eight months.

[1009] eight yes i love that you are down to nothing i like it a boy man get it that's that's intensity right there man and be weary of people who know how much money you make and are wondering why you're living like you're living right if you live spartan people are going to say like man you got all this money you don't need to just put your head down and get it done keep it going man that's that's the number right there i love it you can do this in one year or less i'll calling you a stud okay have at it do it do it The best thing you can do, the faster you get clear, the faster you get to save a down payment in an emergency fund, and the faster you get your house.

[1010] And so you're probably about two years from buying a house, which is perfectly fine.

[1011] No problem with that at all.

[1012] Charles is with us in Jacksonville, Florida.

[1013] Hey, Charles.

[1014] How are you?

[1015] Doing well.

[1016] Thanks so much, guys.

[1017] Really better than I deserve, I guess.

[1018] And just wanted to say thank you, first of all, Dave.

[1019] We're on Baby Step 6.

[1020] We've got six kids.

[1021] and you've really just changed our lives, our family's lives.

[1022] So first and foremost, thank you for all of that.

[1023] Well, thank you.

[1024] Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

[1025] Absolutely, absolutely.

[1026] So quick question for you.

[1027] I'm supporting my mom financially.

[1028] She's got some retirement, but really kind of not a lot of savings.

[1029] We've been able to get her to pay off all her debt and just been very fortunate and bringing her on board as well.

[1030] She does have a $200 ,000 whole life policy.

[1031] that she got back in 1996.

[1032] She's probably put about, yeah, $60 ,000 or so into it at this point.

[1033] And it just jacked up in price.

[1034] There's no cash value in it.

[1035] So it's $425 a month, not something that she's...

[1036] There's no cash value?

[1037] There's no cash value.

[1038] Yeah, that's...

[1039] I've been looking into it.

[1040] I always knew it was there, but I realized it's kind of a mess.

[1041] And what makes this more complicated is she and my dad had both got into this back in 96, and he passed away about eight, nine years ago, and they had ended his policy 10 months before he passed away, so they sunk a lot of money into that one, too, but they couldn't afford it anymore.

[1042] Yeah, so, so, you know, this is not an investment.

[1043] It's just a bad story.

[1044] Yes.

[1045] So just cancel it, just cancel it.

[1046] Unless she's, is she terminally ill?

[1047] she's not and we've looked at selling the policy no no don't don't get into viaticals just sell it just close it just shut it down just a bad idea you got a hole in your pocket quit putting money in the pocket yeah absolutely it's uh is there any way to convert it into a term i mean is there anything we can do that it's just no it's got no cash value if you convert it to a term You've got a term insurance policy on an old lady.

[1048] It's going to be expensive.

[1049] I mean, life insurance is based on age.

[1050] The older you are, the more likely you are to die, and the higher the premiums are.

[1051] It's a pretty simple formula, right?

[1052] Absolutely, and she's in relatively good health.

[1053] Yeah, so, I mean, if you try to get a term policy, that's what you're going to run into is my point.

[1054] And she doesn't need a bunch of life insurance.

[1055] She's not supporting anyone.

[1056] If she passes away, you're taking care of her.

[1057] absolutely I should say I'm sorry when she passes away we all are going to pass away none of us get out of here so yeah I mean it's just a matter of timing and and the bottom line is she just owns a bad financial product that she never needed but for sure doesn't need now absolutely yeah morning the loss of that $60 ,000 yeah that's what's causing you hesitation you're still trying to get something out of it's a sunk and say God we got screwed and I don't want to admit it Let's move on.

[1058] Yeah, and, you know, I was 10 at the time or whatever, right?

[1059] And certainly that 60 ,000 could have grown to a lot more right now.

[1060] I mean, you know, it would have been a ton of money.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] It would have been a thing.

[1063] Your mom and dad both would have had so much money if they'd bought inexpensive term insurance and done real investing instead of getting screwed by some whole life agent, probably some guy they knew.

[1064] Crazy that.

[1065] It's legal.

[1066] I mean, obviously, I didn't know any of this when I was 10.

[1067] They're the payday lender of the middle class.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] And here's the deal, though.

[1070] Here's the deal, though.

[1071] Here's the deal.

[1072] The first step I put in my book about building a non -anxious life is you have to choose reality.

[1073] Because what you're doing is you're spinning up stories.

[1074] You're angry.

[1075] You're thinking about what could have been.

[1076] I was 10 years old.

[1077] And all that does is spin up your body.

[1078] You go to war on a battle.

[1079] You can't fight.

[1080] Yeah, there's no, there's no winning here.

[1081] It's just ending.

[1082] Just stop.

[1083] Just stop.

[1084] It's just, you know.

[1085] Oh, I put $60 ,000 in my pocket.

[1086] There was a hole in it.

[1087] I lost the $60 ,000.

[1088] Now, what do I do now?

[1089] Well, you sew up the hole and you don't put any more money in that pocket until you sew up the hole.

[1090] So we're canceling this stupid thing and run the guy off with a stick.

[1091] That's all you're doing.

[1092] It is that simple.

[1093] I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry your parents got ripped off.

[1094] Yeah, I hate that.

[1095] But, I mean, it's car leasing, whole life, life insurance, time shares.

[1096] I mean, these are the things that just eat credit cards or the credit card interest rates.

[1097] Oh, my God.

[1098] They just eat people's lunch.

[1099] They just tear them of pieces, man. And, you know, when you actually understand how these products work, you go, God, that is a legalized fraud.

[1100] But it is legal.

[1101] It's perfectly legal.

[1102] It's just a horrible product.

[1103] Never buy life insurance ever that has a savings component to it of any kind.

[1104] There's not a place.

[1105] There's not a time that it works.

[1106] Only one person that works for.

[1107] That's the life insurance company.

[1108] That's it.

[1109] It's screwing you 100 % of the time.

[1110] Hope I wasn't unclear.

[1111] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey, Personality is my co -host today.

[1112] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[1113] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1114] Merry Christmas to you.

[1115] Jason is in San Antonio, Texas.

[1116] Love your town, Jason.

[1117] What's up?

[1118] Thanks.

[1119] I'll start off by thanking you.

[1120] You've changed my life.

[1121] on our last three real estate transactions, we've definitely been blessed, and we are on Baby Step 7, thank God.

[1122] Way to go.

[1123] Thank you, sir.

[1124] We are in a position where we could potentially be looking at a real estate investment, and I know you have prolific experience in investing, and I wanted to ask your opinion on setting up potentially a business to invest in, like an LLC or a...

[1125] under my name, and then how to properly find investment properties to invest in, and then obviously, you know, how do we manage it?

[1126] You know, do we do flips?

[1127] Do we do rentals?

[1128] What's your opinion on stuff like that?

[1129] Okay.

[1130] Well, there's a lot of different things you can do there.

[1131] That's a whole real estate course you're talking about in a sense.

[1132] But the, as you probably have already figured out, I'm unusual.

[1133] and I pay cash for all mine, or I don't buy it.

[1134] So that's thing one.

[1135] I do put all of our properties in an LLC.

[1136] We don't buy residential houses anymore in our situation.

[1137] We've got a bunch of them, but we're not adding any.

[1138] When we were buying those, we would put up to $5 million worth into an LLC, and then we would form another LLC.

[1139] The reason for that is if an LLC owns the rental house, the tenant gets drunk and falls off the porch and decides it's your fault and sues you, they have to sue the owner of the house, which is the LLC.

[1140] Exactly.

[1141] Okay.

[1142] And if they were to win, they can take what that LLC owns, but nothing else.

[1143] So your other assets, like your personal residence, are then protected.

[1144] So by putting your properties up to a certain point in an LLC, and then once the target on the LLC gets too big, you do another LLC, so I've got a bunch of them.

[1145] Like I've got one building that's a $15 million office building.

[1146] It's its own LLC, okay?

[1147] You see what I'm doing?

[1148] But if somebody falls over there, the worst case scenario, if they get past the insurance, they get past me pipe paying lawyers to sue them for being, stupid and so on the most they're going to get is that building you follow me yes so if you're going buy a house or two form an LLC throw them in there now then as far as whether you're flipping them or whether you're holding them then that's a completely different strategy in in terms of what you're looking for and what you want to do and that kind of stuff flipping is um been made famous famous, of course, by cable television.

[1149] Everybody thinks they're Chip and Joanna.

[1150] And I've probably done 2 ,500 flips in my life, but mostly in another life before I did this.

[1151] I hardly ever sell a piece of real estate now.

[1152] I buy it and hold it forever.

[1153] And so flips are a pain in the butt because you're basically in the business of renovating properties and reselling them, finding another one, renovating it, and reselling it.

[1154] If you want to do that as your business, that's okay.

[1155] But it's time -consuming, you know, you're running subs.

[1156] You're running paint colors, picking faucets.

[1157] It's like building a dadgum house, you know.

[1158] I mean, you're going to pick roofs.

[1159] You're going to do all these things.

[1160] And then pull building permits.

[1161] You're going to have to do all this stuff, depending on how much work is being done to the house.

[1162] And in the proximity or to a city.

[1163] the municipality that you've got to do that.

[1164] So you've got to go through all that stuff.

[1165] And after you get through all of that, you can make some money doing it if you bought the thing right.

[1166] So you just decide if you want to do that or not.

[1167] On rentals, the best rates of return are cheap properties, but they're the highest hassle.

[1168] In other words, the more expensive the rent, typically the classier of the tenant, right?

[1169] more stable yeah and the more stable but if you got lower income property you know you're having to fight all kinds of other misbehaviors and other stuff in the properties but the returns are excellent uh so right now i'm looking at about hassle fat 120 120 is about what we have left over from the most recent sale okay and i i just parked it in an s and p not no one with do with it yeah that we can take that and buy you know by one or if you want to buy one and flip it or you and and roll it up into something.

[1170] But think about what it is you want to own for 10 years if you're buying a rental.

[1171] And from personal experience, I'll tell you, you know, you're a brand new landlord.

[1172] You don't want to deal with lower income property.

[1173] It's paying the butt.

[1174] I mean, it becomes its own business.

[1175] It's your own, you have to have a brain adjustment when you do it because you have to think different.

[1176] But, you know, all the residential I have today is, is really.

[1177] really high -end single families and I don't know how I got 10 or 15 of them I don't have a bunch of them most of our stuff is commercial but but so all of that to say you just got to decide what you want to the but the more um don't underestimate the hassle factor of what you're stepping into a flip is a big hassle I'm telling you make some money but it's a job you know dealing with lower income people you make a great ready to return, but it's a hassle.

[1178] It becomes a job, and it requires a cultural adjustment in your brain because it's a different psyche that you're dealing with as a customer.

[1179] And so, you know, by and large, not all the time, but as a generalization, call it a stereotype if you want to.

[1180] But then the same thing on the other end.

[1181] So if you're going to buy something to hold, look at it and go, how's this going to age in 10 years?

[1182] Is it already 50 years old?

[1183] Ooh.

[1184] Then it's going to be 60 years old when it's 10 years from now.

[1185] You're going to start to, you know, so how old are you, Dave?

[1186] I know, but I'm talking about houses.

[1187] I mean, I look at the house I grew up in, and I think that's stinking house, how old it is now.

[1188] Oh, yeah.

[1189] You know, I mean, wow, I wouldn't buy that house.

[1190] Oh, yeah.

[1191] You know, that's old.

[1192] Same than when I grew up in, yeah.

[1193] You know, so that, that's the thing.

[1194] Well, it's a great question.

[1195] Um, and, uh, and, but I think the biggest mistake, this frenzy we have, John, and Jason, the people we have out here wanting to buy real estate right now.

[1196] The biggest mistake is, is that they, they probably understand about 10 % of how hard it's going to be.

[1197] Well, I like the way you're framing it because you're saying, you're asking, what life do you want?

[1198] And then we're going to, we're going to buy a house or flip a house based on that.

[1199] Because if you want to get in there and get your hands dirty and deal with knocking on, doors and hey you can't do this and you can't light fires in the yard way that's a life right you can't run drugs out of our house that's right and if you want to mess the subs and have fun with doing that and flipping it and pick faucets and that brings you or your whoever your business partner's joy knock your lights out but that's a different kind of life yeah yeah if you want to set it and forget it but this idea on tick talk that you can just buy houses and i've got this passive income people who say passive income on real estate are morons right there's nothing passive about owning real estate it's active right it's a very active there's not i don't own a single piece of property that's passive right and i own about several hundred million dollars it's it's very it's not passive it's there's nobody crypto there's nothing that what passive is is mutual funds they send me a statement in my inbox that's all i deal with there's that that's passive but no there's not any there's no real estate passive income that's a that's a that's a that's somebody trying to sell you a get rich quick seminar on TikTok or tick tack or whatever the flip it is you know so that that's the you know you just real estate is a wonderful investment but do not go into it folks with rose color glasses think it's going to be easy it's a process you're going to get rich quick it's not easy there's a hassle it's not a problem it's you know it's like starting your own business.

[1200] It's the meanest boss you'll ever work for in your life.

[1201] The guy will work you into the ground.

[1202] You know, don't start your own business and think it's going to fix all your problems.

[1203] It just makes all your problems come home on your plate.

[1204] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1205] Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1206] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1207] We're so glad you're here.

[1208] Jeremy and Dauphin are with us on the debt -free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

[1209] How are you guys?

[1210] Bless better than amazing.

[1211] I love it.

[1212] Very fun.

[1213] Where do you guys live?

[1214] We live in.

[1215] Go ahead.

[1216] Okay.

[1217] Waxahatchee, Texas.

[1218] Which is...

[1219] It's about 20 minutes south of Dallas, just out 35.

[1220] Okay.

[1221] Off 287.

[1222] Yeah, exactly.

[1223] Look at you Texas people talking code.

[1224] All right.

[1225] I love it.

[1226] Way to go, guys.

[1227] Congratulations.

[1228] Welcome to Nashville.

[1229] Merry Christmas.

[1230] How much debt did you pay off?

[1231] $128 ,849.

[1232] $0 .83.

[1233] I love it.

[1234] How long did this take?

[1235] Fifty -seven months.

[1236] Okay.

[1237] Way to go.

[1238] And your range of household income during that 57 months?

[1239] It was 65K to about 110K.

[1240] Neat.

[1241] What do y 'all do for a living?

[1242] We're both teachers, and I'm actually a high school football coach.

[1243] Oh, wow.

[1244] Very good.

[1245] Good for you guys.

[1246] So what kind of debt was the $129?

[1247] It was a mixture of school loans.

[1248] There was a, we owed something to the some money to the IRS.

[1249] There was a car loan, credit cards.

[1250] There was an old medical bill and a past eviction from my college days.

[1251] Okay.

[1252] Cool.

[1253] Very good.

[1254] Way to go, you guys.

[1255] Excellent.

[1256] So what happened 57 months ago?

[1257] I was actually teaching like multiple math classes.

[1258] One of them was a financial math course.

[1259] And I was just kind of during my lunch break, I was scrolling through Facebook and the Rachel Cruz show came up.

[1260] And I was just kind of listened to her.

[1261] And then, She had Chris Hogan on, and they talked about the third job for being millionaires as a teacher.

[1262] And I was always a person that I was like, oh, well, I'm just never going to make it.

[1263] Or I'm just going to always be broke because I'm a teacher.

[1264] And so when I heard that, I was like, okay, I'll bite.

[1265] Like, let's hear about this.

[1266] And then that's when I started listening to your show more.

[1267] And I got hooked immediately.

[1268] And then I kept trying to convince her.

[1269] And she was not really having it.

[1270] Yes, I was like a budget.

[1271] What?

[1272] and then after a while, you know, we started talking about her dreams and things like that.

[1273] I was like, okay, I'll bite.

[1274] So, okay.

[1275] And then right after that, we, we, I finally convinced her let me buy FPU.

[1276] Uh -huh.

[1277] And then she decided to go on a spending spree that weekend.

[1278] Yes.

[1279] Of course.

[1280] Well, you got to eat chocolate cake when you start your diet.

[1281] Yes.

[1282] Okay.

[1283] All right.

[1284] So, but we ended up binging basically all nine episodes in probably about four or five days.

[1285] Okay.

[1286] So we, like, we didn't have a group to really get plugged into.

[1287] So we just started listening.

[1288] And, I mean, after the first lesson, she was hooked.

[1289] And we were like, all right, let's go.

[1290] Oh, wow.

[1291] So once you're on, you're on.

[1292] Yes.

[1293] All right.

[1294] And then we, two teacher salaries, you plow your way through $129 ,000.

[1295] Well, she actually wasn't a teacher at first.

[1296] Okay.

[1297] She, uh, I was actually, um, wanting that we had moved up to Houston so that I could go to optometry school after we both graduated from, college and then I changed my mind during COVID because I was also working for an optometrist and shadowing him and I realized that my passion is to help people and to serve people and I felt that I could still do that through teaching.

[1298] So that's why I changed my mind and we plowed through that and getting my teacher served.

[1299] And I started just focusing and teaching kids.

[1300] And we started focusing on that debt.

[1301] And we ended up taking up extra jobs on the weekends and everything.

[1302] So our shirts.

[1303] Yeah.

[1304] We worked at Gateway Church.

[1305] We worked in the children's ministry.

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] Okay.

[1308] Yes.

[1309] Pastor Morris, a good friend of mine.

[1310] Yes.

[1311] A good people.

[1312] Way to go, gosh.

[1313] Good for you guys.

[1314] I'm proud of you.

[1315] So what was the hardest thing you guys fought about over almost five years?

[1316] I mean, there was multiple.

[1317] She looked at you like she knows exactly the answer and you are looking like, we never fought.

[1318] Everything was great.

[1319] Go ahead.

[1320] Okay.

[1321] For me, it was having to stick to the budget was the hardest thing for me. And I felt like I was always trying to push it, push the nodule.

[1322] on trying to spend and trying to be socially acceptable all the time and feeling that I always could not be empty handed because that's the way I was I grew up you know if you you know show up to family get -togethers or birthdays or even you know if you're at your job and they have like a party and you have to bring something and I always felt that pressure of we have to spend so that we can keep up with everyone and I realized that I have to had to just stop caring about that so much and focusing on our dream together and being out of debt.

[1323] That's powerful.

[1324] How has your marriage changed over the five years of working through this?

[1325] Well, we actually starting off our debt -free journey within the first three months, we were actually on the rocks.

[1326] And so we actually went through marriage counseling, like almost immediately after we started FPU.

[1327] Wow.

[1328] And like about two months after we started marriage counseling, I actually lost my job.

[1329] And so just to make ends meet, I ended up getting a job.

[1330] as an assistant manager at McDonald's.

[1331] This is when we were living in Beaumont.

[1332] And so, I mean, ever since then, though, I mean, like our communication has gotten better.

[1333] Money, I don't feel like ever was, like, the biggest fight.

[1334] It was always just something lingering.

[1335] It was always usually just kind of communication errors.

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] And then we had arguments about cars, too, because you'll like this one.

[1338] So throughout our entire debt -free journey, we went through 10 vehicles.

[1339] Good Lord.

[1340] Nine of them were in the first two years.

[1341] Yes.

[1342] Yeah, we had...

[1343] You're driving junkers or throwways?

[1344] So we, starting off, we had a 2015 Chevy Cruise in 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer.

[1345] Both a piece of junk.

[1346] Yes.

[1347] So the Chevy Cruise was the one we had a loan on.

[1348] So after I lost my job, we sold it.

[1349] And then we ended up getting a 99 Toyota Camry.

[1350] That's better.

[1351] And so when we moved to Houston, I actually wrecked the, Mitsubisha Lancer.

[1352] Uh -huh.

[1353] And, uh...

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] Wow, you are not coming out the hero in any of this.

[1356] Oh, it gets better.

[1357] It gets better.

[1358] So then, uh, we ended up getting a 97 Toyota 400 and so...

[1359] That's not bad.

[1360] Yeah, so then the 99 Camry, uh, the Tommy Belt breaks while I'm driving up the freeway in Houston.

[1361] So my dad ended up helping us out, giving us a 2000 Toyota Camry.

[1362] That's better.

[1363] And while she was driving it, uh, right after a melted hit, the wheel popped off the axle.

[1364] Oh, my gosh!

[1365] Yes.

[1366] So my dad felt bad.

[1367] He gave him, and then, so he brought us a...

[1368] He almost killed his daughter -in -law.

[1369] How fast were you going?

[1370] The speed limit.

[1371] In Houston?

[1372] No, no, you're not telling the truth because nobody drives speed limit in Houston.

[1373] Well, it was a back road, so...

[1374] Oh, okay.

[1375] I had to be careful.

[1376] I'm not used to being on back roads all the time, so...

[1377] Well, and because the thing was, is like, she was driving to Beaumont from Houston, which is about an hour and a half to two -hour drive, because that's where her job was.

[1378] Hard to do it on three wheels.

[1379] And then, uh, we were living on the...

[1380] the north side of Houston.

[1381] I was actually working on the south side, which, John, as you know, Houston is an hour away from Houston.

[1382] That's right.

[1383] So I was actually getting up at 4 a .m. in the morning.

[1384] In the middle of all this bull crap, how many times did you almost quit getting out of debt?

[1385] Uh, too many times to really count.

[1386] What caused you to stick with it?

[1387] That's amazing.

[1388] I'm impressed.

[1389] Um, for us, it was just having those dream talks.

[1390] Yeah.

[1391] And rewatching the lessons.

[1392] It's worth the trouble.

[1393] Now that you're there and you look back on all that stupid car, I mean, that's like a book.

[1394] You ought to write a book on bad cars, the bad car experience.

[1395] Was it worth it?

[1396] Yes.

[1397] A hundred percent.

[1398] I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[1399] I would do it all again.

[1400] You need to write all those cars down in detail so you can tell your grandkids because you'll forget them.

[1401] I've had to go back and figure out what cars I've owned over the years and I didn't go through 10 and 10 months.

[1402] Oh, my God.

[1403] that's incredible way to go you guys i'm so proud of you because the perseverance that you built and the locking arms even though you hated every moment of it and at times didn't like each other while you're doing it you steal that what the calluses that you built you're going to be able to do anything you want to do with your life yes i'm so proud of you so very cool all right count it down guys 129000 paid off in 57 months making 65 to 110 let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1404] Three, two, one.

[1405] We're dead free!

[1406] Yeah!

[1407] That's how that works.

[1408] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1409] Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 1628, a troublemaker plants seeds of strife.

[1410] Gossip separates the best of friends.

[1411] Thomas Sowell says, you can't stop people from saying bad things about you.

[1412] All you can do is make them liars.

[1413] that's fantastic that's pretty good all right Patrick's with us in Nashville hey Patrick welcome to the Ramsey show uh hey Dave hey John it's good to be talking to you all you too man how can we help yeah first of all and I'll be quick first of all I just want to say thank you for the work that you all do you and your entire team I'm on baby step number two still so very early on in the process but I can already tell you what education you put out and the things that I've learned from you all, I've changed my financial future.

[1414] And honestly, even more than that, my kids and maybe children's children's financial future.

[1415] So thank you.

[1416] Well, thank you, Patrick.

[1417] We're proud of you.

[1418] How can we help?

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] So I guess my question ultimately falls around manual underwriting.

[1421] I want to give a little context.

[1422] I work in higher education, so Dr. John knows my world very much.

[1423] Essentially, my question is regarding a potential job opportunity.

[1424] there's a position that I've been asked to apply for.

[1425] I am applying for it that essentially will give me free housing, mils stipend, phone bill paid for.

[1426] So cover a lot of my essential expenses.

[1427] And essentially, I'm wondering what that looks like with, if I do go through this entire process, become debt -free, no credit score, figure out if that affects any way negatively manual underwriting.

[1428] No, it does not.

[1429] I did the exact thing.

[1430] I lived on campus.

[1431] I had all my bills taking care of.

[1432] It affects nothing.

[1433] It's all good.

[1434] Take advantage of that glitch in the matrix and pay off everything you own, put tons of money away, and, um, you know, manual unwriting does not require a rental for it to be approved, a rental background.

[1435] Now, it, um, if you have paid, you know, if you've paid rent, they're going to want to see that, but, but in this case, you're not.

[1436] So, for instance, another place you would have this happen is if you were in the military and you're using your, you're using base housing.

[1437] Yeah, that wouldn't count against you.

[1438] It's just becomes part of your compensation at your job is what it amounts to.

[1439] So it's very explainable because the essence of manual underwriting is, is that instead of looking at a number that says you can pay your bills, they're actually looking at your life.

[1440] Okay.

[1441] Can you pay your bills?

[1442] manual means a human being is making a value wisdom judgment on behalf of the mortgage company and saying, okay, I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills.

[1443] I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills.

[1444] I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills.

[1445] And that's what they're looking for.

[1446] When I was a pup at 18 or 20 years old in the 70s and 80s selling real estate, we would take there was no FICO score we would put a house under contract with someone and we would take them over to the savings and loan the bank and they would sit down and say all right sign this it's a verification of deposit and they would mail it to the bank to verify that you had a deposit sign this it's a VOE a verification of employment they would mail it to your employer to verify your income and that you had a job sign this it's a verification of employment.

[1447] of that and they would gather these data points and then they would look at them and go this guy can pay his bills there was not any shocking uh revelation out of a magic number that somehow falsely said you were eligible and so that's what's going on here that's the essence of the idea of manual underwriting and that'll put you right where you want to be i'm proud of you Patrick go take your job man that's great yeah go get it get it that job changed my family's life so go get it where were you?

[1448] I was in Texas and I was over, I would have been his boss and I had an empty apartment and this is when my wife and I decided, hey, if we sold our house, we moved in this house, we could pay off everything we own in the next.

[1449] So we paid off a trillion dollars.

[1450] Oh, so you sold your house and moved into the - It moved into an apartment.

[1451] That was provided.

[1452] That was provided and it had all the bills and then Hank had 175 college students as his roommates in the building we lived in and ended up being a pretty magic year for us.

[1453] Wow.

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] Very interesting.

[1456] But it transformed their lives.

[1457] Denise is with us in Houston, Texas.

[1458] Hi, Denise.

[1459] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1460] Hi, Dave.

[1461] Hi, John.

[1462] Thank you guys so much for taking my call.

[1463] It's my birthday today.

[1464] So I'm definitely happy to...

[1465] Happy birthday.

[1466] Oh, thank you so much.

[1467] My question is I am wondering if I should...

[1468] Or how I can get out of my car situation.

[1469] I currently have a 2020 -Kiaforte.

[1470] Negative equity in it.

[1471] Unfortunately, I purchased it last year.

[1472] years and I just feel like it's draining the ability for me to be able to make um have higher settings and just kind of get get to a better place what do you owe on it really know if there's uh 22 ,000 okay what do you make 57 ,000 mm -hmm and uh what's your car payment car payment is 460 okay and uh so what do you think it's worth uh from kbbb I looked up it's worth about grand 13 or 14 grand that's trade in no she rolled in negative equity oh you rolled in negative equity correct oh i missed that part oh geez okay so the is that private sale you owe 14 uh yes private sale or it's worth 14 i'm sorry uh so you're eight in the hole i would owe roughly 8k yeah and i thought maybe you know pretty soon i could start trying to double up on payment and get out of my um my balance sooner my time how much other debt do you have 6k in student loans 2100 and a credit card that's okay now i'm just gonna i'm just gonna work your debt snowball pay your minimum payments and and pay everything you can on your smallest debt and then when that was gone pay everything you can on your next smallest debt that's 10 ,000 dollars clear that um and then when you don't have those two payments anymore then we're going to tear into this car and we're going to pay not double payments but triple quadruple payments or whatever You know, pay $3 ,000 a month on it.

[1473] I don't care.

[1474] And let's just get it paid down because the car is not the problem.

[1475] The car before this car is the problem.

[1476] And so you're not solving the math problem when you go from 22 to 8.

[1477] If you go from 22 to 2, you'd be solving the math problem, right?

[1478] Right.

[1479] But you don't make enough headway here by getting rid of this, by sacrificing this car.

[1480] in this case what I would do is just tear into it with a vengeance and say okay I've got um you know $32 ,000 worth of debt I make 57 I'm going to work six jobs do nothing go not go out to eat I'm going to pour everything I can get my hands on onto this 57 I mean onto this $32 ,000 worth of debt and in 18 to 24 months I'm going to be 100 % debt free car and everything and then if you want to sell the car sell it but get it paid off Perfect.

[1481] That's kind of what I was thinking.

[1482] Thank you guys so much.

[1483] Yeah, you got it.

[1484] Have you been through Financial Peace University yet, Marie?

[1485] Denise, I have not.

[1486] No. I'm sorry, Denise.

[1487] I'm sorry.

[1488] I'm looking at the wrong screen.

[1489] When I was younger, I did, my family, like, how old are you?

[1490] When I was, I'm 29 today.

[1491] That's a happy birthday.

[1492] Hey, we're going to give you a birthday gift and a Christmas gift.

[1493] I want you to go through Financial Peace University as my guest.

[1494] Okay, thank you so much.

[1495] Yeah, I want you to go do that stuff.

[1496] because I can hear it in the way you're looking at this and the way you're forming your language, you're actually going to do it.

[1497] You're going to do this.

[1498] I am.

[1499] I'm very passionate and, yes, I definitely want to knock it out.

[1500] Denise, can I ask you a quick question?

[1501] Yes, sir.

[1502] How many years in a row have you been 29?

[1503] Zero.

[1504] All right.

[1505] A real 29.

[1506] Well done.

[1507] It's the 33rd anniversary of my 29th birthday.

[1508] Oh my gosh.

[1509] Oh, happy birthday, Denise.

[1510] Hang on.

[1511] Austin will pick up and we'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University as our guest.

[1512] We got about 10 ,000, we just passed 10 ,000 classes that were taught this year.

[1513] Wow.

[1514] I just did a little video thanking all the coordinators before we got on the air.

[1515] 10 ,000 classes.

[1516] 10 ,000 classes were taught this year.

[1517] And it gets away.

[1518] The numbers are astronomical.

[1519] They're staggered.

[1520] I mean, that's a lot of people.

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] And we're starting to add up now how much charity has been given by all these people.

[1523] And it's astronomical how much of the economy you can affect by doing something like this.

[1524] That puts us out of The Ramsey Show and the books.

[1525] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1526] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1527] Christ Jesus.

[1528] Hey folks, Dave Ramsey here.

[1529] You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring.

[1530] You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's Every Dollar.

[1531] The Every Dollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money.

[1532] Start budgeting with Every Dollar for free right now.

[1533] Just go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash every dollar and download the app today.

[1534] That's Ramsey Solutions .com slash every dollar.

[1535] Thank you.