Who Is Believed and Who Is Blamed?

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.

[1] This is The Daily.

[2] Today, across the country, the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh has set off a highly personal debate among women about who is believed and who is blamed.

[3] We sit in on two of those conversations.

[4] It's Wednesday, October 10th.

[5] Am I too close to you?

[6] No?

[7] No. No, you can be in a circus.

[8] Earlier this week, I sat down with a group of teenage girls in Brooklyn to discuss their reaction to Kavanaugh's confirmation.

[9] So I just wanted to start by asking you all what your understanding is of what happened over the past few weeks, what your sense of it is.

[10] We could start anywhere.

[11] It's my understanding that this man is being allegedly accused of doing something awful to a girl.

[12] In high school?

[13] At a party, I believe.

[14] I was at a party because I heard like 20 million different things.

[15] Like my dad said one thing.

[16] And then my friends be like, oh, I heard in the news this happened.

[17] And then Twitter said this.

[18] So it's like it's all messed up.

[19] Once I heard that he was at school and he went into the bathroom with her or it was like at a party and he shoved her into like the bathroom in the party.

[20] So it's the second one.

[21] Well, he shoved in a hotel.

[22] I think it was a bedroom, right?

[23] Yeah.

[24] It wasn't on a bed.

[25] He took her.

[26] upstairs from a high school party.

[27] So they didn't go to school together at the time they're in high school.

[28] And I think he was like a grade above her.

[29] What else did you guys hear about it, if at all?

[30] Marcia and I, we actually were shown the hearings at school.

[31] And it was more of a discussion.

[32] But you guys also go to a private school.

[33] Right.

[34] And a lot of my other friends that go to different schools were not given any sort of outlet to talk about it.

[35] I hadn't really talked to any adults about like the whole Kavanaugh situation until yesterday when my dad had said something about how like like he had made like an angry comment about it and then I said something about like how it's not fair on her on like the victim that people are going to treat her bad or whatever and then he was talking about how like like he was mad because people are trying to ruin his life and it made me like really angry because I was like he's got that job for life now like that's his.

[36] job now.

[37] The allegations did nothing to prevent that.

[38] So it just made me really angry hearing like that.

[39] And what did you think in particular of her testimony and the way she described the events?

[40] She seemed so upset.

[41] And you're not going to sit here and ruin your own life for something that's not true because people were coming to her house for this, weren't they?

[42] Like you are not going to sit here and lie about something that's going to affect you forever.

[43] just to keep somebody out of office.

[44] That's true.

[45] I agree with that.

[46] Especially when it's someone with that much power, because when you, like, accuse somebody of that much power of something like this, like people automatically are going to attack you and invalidate you and make you feel like you're just being stupid.

[47] And, yeah.

[48] I want to bring this back to you and your lives.

[49] At the center of the Kavanaugh, allegation is a high school party.

[50] High school students drinking beer on a summer after.

[51] afternoon inside a house.

[52] And I wonder how familiar that scene is to you all.

[53] It depends on, like, who you're partying with, like, I don't know.

[54] I'm Hispanic, so, like, my parents, like, they don't really, like, know you like that.

[55] They ain't going to let you out.

[56] So, like, I used to go to parties that were, like, really Hispanic, but, like, I knew them.

[57] Like, I knew who they were.

[58] But I have been to some parties where, like, one time I went to some college party when I was like, oh, my God, I don't even want to be here.

[59] Like, let's leave.

[60] boys just come up to you like they have no behavior like they really like these boys just they just be like grabbing you like literally grabbing you and I'm like oh my god like like and I experienced this myself like some boy was like come here and I was like I was like who do you think you are?

[61] I was like you really got to get away from me like this is not okay and I was like oh my God, like, people really go through this.

[62] And people sometimes are like, they're, like, stuck.

[63] Like, my friend was like, yo, one time I had this experience where some girl was like, the kid came up to her and she was like in an awe, like, she couldn't move.

[64] She was, like, scared to move.

[65] Like, that's just me. But I think that's so crazy because it's like, you're saying that this is so common.

[66] This sort of thing happens all the time.

[67] And it's so normalized.

[68] Just like, let's say, cat calling.

[69] That's so normal.

[70] Yeah.

[71] It's so normal.

[72] I've literally been cat.

[73] I think the youngest I've been cat called was probably...

[74] When I was like 10.

[75] Yeah, 12, 13.

[76] And it's just so common.

[77] And not one of us who is cat called makes quote -unquote a big deal about it because we know that it will continue to happen, no matter how much we speak up about it.

[78] How many of you have either experienced something along the lines of what Christine Bazzi Ford testified to or have a friend who told you something happened that made them very uncomfortable.

[79] One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

[80] I've had friends who have been sexually assaulted or have been raped, and they still, like, even if they don't remember the whole scenario, there's always, like, one significant thing that they remember that even till the day, it makes their skin crawl, like it affects them mentally so much.

[81] Like what she said, that the one thing that, like, always affected her was the laugh, was them laughing at her.

[82] You know, I have friends that have had something like this happen to them or worse, and they have only gone to me and a select group of people about it because of the fear that nobody's going to believe them, that their parents are going to be angry at them for whatever reason.

[83] Did any of you find that you wanted to talk about any of these encounters and you found that people around you weren't believing them or they had questions that made you wonder if they believed you?

[84] Or you just felt unheard?

[85] I've always wanted to talk about it.

[86] And I have, like I've gone to my mother and talked about what has happened to me. But when I told her, she said, should I have been, like, out that late or you should have came straight home.

[87] And so I kind of stopped telling people who I wanted to tell, like, my other family and, like, close friends of mine because I felt as if my feelings and what has happened to me was invalidated in that.

[88] Are you comfortable saying anything more about what happened to you?

[89] You don't have to.

[90] I was walking home from an evening out with my friends.

[91] It was around, like, maybe 9, 30, 10, and I was walking in a man who I was, I didn't know.

[92] He was a really old man. And he approached me. And at first I thought it was like super funny and all fun of games because he approached me. He said, oh, you look like a sexy Britain.

[93] I'm like, I don't know what that means.

[94] Like, ha, ha, ha.

[95] But then he like pulled me into, like, it wasn't like his house, but like the driveway next to his house.

[96] And he pulled me there.

[97] And I started to get scared.

[98] I tried to fight back.

[99] But I was not as strong as him.

[100] And he was a very.

[101] like he was very built and he then like started to like try to kiss on my neck and he tried to like touch my boobs and I got so uncomfortable but I was capable of getting out of that situation because of a stranger that was walking past and I started screaming for help but till to this day I kind of I'm still impacted by it because when people even go near me I'm still like I don't want you there.

[102] I get them very uncomfortable.

[103] And you just, you chose to tell your parents and people around you about it and, and I told my mother as soon as I got home because after the incident, I kind of like ran home because I, I guess it was adrenaline.

[104] I usually don't run, but there was adrenaline and I was running.

[105] And as soon as I got home, my mom started like, why are you home so late?

[106] And I'm like, this is what happened to me. And she said, you shouldn't have been out too late.

[107] And after that, I kind of just stopped talking about it.

[108] So I want to shift focus here to a pretty sensitive question, especially given what we just heard.

[109] One of the conversations surrounding these accusations against Brett Kavanaugh is that this was high school.

[110] So how much weight should it carry, given that context?

[111] And I'm curious what you think as high school, schoolers, should what you do now, should what anyone in high school does now, follow you around for the rest of your life?

[112] Yeah.

[113] Because I feel like, like, obviously high school is like a write -up passage and you've got to make mistakes and learn your way through it, but there are certain things that it's just like, like saying hateful things to certain minority groups and things like sexual misconduct, that kind of stuff follows the victims forever.

[114] And if it follows the victims forever, well, then you got to do with it, too, since it's your fault.

[115] You know what I mean?

[116] When you're 16, 17, 18, you're in high school, you have a moral compass that will tell you what is right and what is wrong.

[117] So if you're already in the state of mind where you know what's right and what's wrong, that means you are consciously making a decision to do something wrong or you are consciously making a decision to do something right, which is the same thing we're going to be doing the rest of your life.

[118] I wonder what you think the message was when Brett Kavanaugh was confirmed.

[119] Many of you have talked about experiences that have happened to you or to people you know that were assault.

[120] And given the fact that he was accused of that, and he was put onto the nation's highest court, what's the message to you?

[121] For all we know, it could have never happened.

[122] But the sole fact that he was accused shows that anybody can get away with anything as long as they have.

[123] have enough power.

[124] On top of that, like people that are watching him might think, oh, if he got away with it, I can too.

[125] Because if he did it, maybe I'm not going to get caught.

[126] Maybe, like, even if they bring me to, like, a trial, like, I'm going to be good because look who is now our Supreme Court justice.

[127] He got away with it, so why not me too?

[128] Anybody else?

[129] It kind of just feels like a big old, I don't really care about your situation.

[130] type of thing from like the higher ups and the government and stuff.

[131] It felt like we don't care if you like it or not.

[132] You have to take it.

[133] And like it feels like they don't care about our opinion, our safety and the fact that we're even here, even though we make up like a big percentage of people.

[134] And it feels like they're kind of just like, well, sucks.

[135] Well, I really want to thank you all.

[136] This has been really remarkable.

[137] and candid and enlightening, and I appreciate it.

[138] We all do.

[139] Thank you.

[140] We'll be right back.

[141] Oh, Mississippi.

[142] Hello.

[143] Beautiful.

[144] Last week, when the president broke from his previously measured comments about Dr. Blasey Ford, it was at a rally in South Haven, Mississippi, where he was trying to energize his base ahead of the midterms.

[145] I had one beer.

[146] right?

[147] I had one beer.

[148] Well, do you think it was...

[149] Nope, it was one beer.

[150] Oh, good.

[151] How did you get home?

[152] I don't remember.

[153] How'd you get there?

[154] I don't remember.

[155] Where is the place I don't remember?

[156] How many years ago was it?

[157] I don't know.

[158] My colleagues, Susan Chira and Ellen Ann Fentress, visited the town a few days later to see how women in more rural areas of the country were responding to the president's comments and to the accusations against Judge Kavanaugh.

[159] Is it New York Post?

[160] New York Times.

[161] I don't know, too, you're really qualified lady.

[162] You're really in a challenge your life.

[163] Crystal Walls and Lovita Green work alongside each other at Dale's restaurant in South Haven.

[164] And he opened this in 55, I think I saw.

[165] Yeah, because that started in 72.

[166] Carol, one year before I was born.

[167] Crystal is a Republican, and Lovita is a Republican.

[168] Democrat.

[169] I love Mr. Vita.

[170] I love me some girls.

[171] But how many years have y 'all known each other?

[172] I've been here 23 years.

[173] So 23 years?

[174] Do you think y 'all's relationship has changed over the years?

[175] Are y 'all more forthcoming now?

[176] We're more forthcoming now.

[177] You know, of y 'all's conversation every day, what percent of it you think is like the back and forth about politics?

[178] About 10 or 15 percent?

[179] Because she'll come in.

[180] It depends on what's going on.

[181] It depends on what's going on.

[182] time.

[183] Yes.

[184] I've been talking to lots and lots of people because the president came to the rally and some people went to the rally and thought it was great.

[185] And then some people said, oh, well, but he was making fun of that woman there and that wasn't so great.

[186] So there's a lot of disagreement and there's all this stuff going on right now with the Kavanaugh confirmation.

[187] Yeah, he just passed the phone.

[188] So we just wanted to get like your sense of it.

[189] Now, you were working.

[190] You weren't at the rally?

[191] Or did you go?

[192] Oh, you went to them?

[193] Oh, okay.

[194] Yeah, but I just, I'll take my grandson, it was good because he really wanted to go.

[195] How well was your grandson?

[196] He is 16.

[197] Uh -huh.

[198] And what did you think when you saw the present?

[199] I thought it was pretty awesome.

[200] My grandson, when we laughed, he said, Grandma, that was really cool.

[201] I mean, you don't get to see a present every day.

[202] Yeah.

[203] It was pretty good.

[204] I thought he was funny, actually.

[205] Tell me about what was funny?

[206] Some of his comments.

[207] I don't remember exactly.

[208] You know, he shouldn't have said that about her just because he's a president.

[209] But I didn't hear one dude.

[210] They sure did cheer him on big time.

[211] And what he said, I have to agree, it's very true.

[212] Tell me more.

[213] Dead Phillips.

[214] Not right.

[215] Okay.

[216] Like I said, I wasn't there, but on the news, I saw where he mocked her when he was down there at the center.

[217] He mocked her.

[218] And just because you're the president of the United States, you all have more up about what caused out of your doggone mouth.

[219] You just, just because you're the president or the United States.

[220] Yeah, just like I totally agreed with what he said the other night.

[221] I just, because he was the president, he should have been quiet.

[222] But it was funny.

[223] And that just doesn't step well with me. That means as the president, you shouldn't have marked her period.

[224] Even though Catamoff is, you know, going up for judge, getting to stand judge and all.

[225] Even if what he said was true.

[226] Shut up, Chris, don't do it.

[227] See, this how it gets started.

[228] What it was.

[229] But no, I did say he should not say it.

[230] He shouldn't, just because he was president.

[231] I just, you know, she don't seem to remember too much.

[232] I sit there and I watched her.

[233] interview.

[234] I watched it like a hawk.

[235] And I had an open mind about it.

[236] She is a very intelligent woman.

[237] She's read a lot of articles.

[238] She's wrote a book.

[239] She's got all kinds of stuff out there.

[240] But as far as common sense, I don't think she has that much.

[241] I don't know.

[242] 15 years old and 17 years old.

[243] Really?

[244] That's just ridiculous.

[245] To me it's just ridiculous.

[246] I thought she was probably trying to use psychology on America, but it wasn't working.

[247] Since she's a professor of psychology.

[248] But PTSD, come on, get real.

[249] For real, maybe she needs to talk to some servicemen that really have PTSD.

[250] And it's not because I don't understand right.

[251] I don't understand right big time.

[252] She actually wasn't raped.

[253] She was just assaulted.

[254] I mean, seriously, my daughter, she was assaulted, raped, found in a motel beaten.

[255] I mean, I understand it big time.

[256] You go to counseling for a year, too, whatever you need to do, but PTSD, I can't see that.

[257] That's just too much.

[258] My daughter's gone on just fine a lot.

[259] You forgive, you forget.

[260] You don't carry that with you your whole stupid life.

[261] I mean, and I can think many times men did things to me. Rown men when I was little that should have never happened.

[262] I always took off running.

[263] And shouldn't she take a little responsibility for her own actions?

[264] What was she doing in a house drinking with just guys in the first place, you know?

[265] I thought her whole testimony was just ridiculous.

[266] Okay.

[267] Ridiculous.

[268] And so what did you, did you believe Dr. Forre that, when, what did you say?

[269] It should take you no 30 years to tell you, somebody touch you in fraud.

[270] Now it's coming out how many people been touched.

[271] It started with be a cosby.

[272] Like we said, after be a cosby, it happened to be a cosmet.

[273] Everybody just, crystal common to work, do you believe how many of the morning came out?

[274] Do you believe in?

[275] I be like, it's crazy.

[276] That's my thing with it.

[277] Why it takes so long?

[278] Why is it taking out so long to come out and mess with these men about this?

[279] That goes for Kavanaugh, there goes for Bill Cosby.

[280] It goes for everybody.

[281] It goes for the preachers that are messing with the little boys now.

[282] It goes for everybody.

[283] It's just senseless.

[284] I think this Me Too thing has just gone too far.

[285] I mean, any woman can say anything.

[286] And a lot of times, you know, as far as I did, they bring it on themselves to destroy somebody that, you know, Maybe they don't care for.

[287] I think it's gone too far.

[288] Actually, I think that should be something that's kept personal.

[289] When you, you need help, you need to get help.

[290] Sure, there's a lot of bad guys and they do a lot of bad things they shouldn't be doing.

[291] I can think of so many instances in my own life.

[292] I mean, oh, maybe I ain't a win.

[293] Oh, no. So maybe I can't comprehend that.

[294] Some women are scared, and I don't know why.

[295] I am a conservative.

[296] Okay.

[297] Mainly because, maybe because I'm older, and I think a lot of things in this country just getting too liberal.

[298] Like on what?

[299] Just totally.

[300] Whether it be like what's going on now or whatever, you know.

[301] Here's what else you need to Notre Day.

[302] It was a blessing to go into the UN with body armor every day and defend America.

[303] And I'll always do that.

[304] I'll never truly step aside from fighting for our country.

[305] But I will tell you that I think it's time.

[306] On Tuesday, President Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, said she would resign at the end of the year after just two years in the job in the latest high -level departure from the administration.

[307] But I'm most excited, look at the two years.

[308] Look at what has happened in two years with the United States on foreign policy.

[309] Now the United States is respected.

[310] Countries may not like what we do, but they respect what we do.

[311] Haley, who repeatedly criticized Trump as a presidential candidate, and who clashed with his White House over foreign policy, nevertheless emerged as a fierce defender of his agenda at the U .N. You've been fantastic, you're my friend, and I just, on behalf of the country, I want to thank you for a great job.

[312] Thank you, McGee.

[313] President Trump expressed suspicion of a landmark report released on Monday by international climate scientists, which predicted faster and more severe consequences of global warming than previously thought.

[314] Asked about the report on the White House lawn on Tuesday, the president said, quote, it was given to me, and I want to look at who drew it, you know, which group drew it.

[315] I can give you reports that are fabulous, and I can give you reports that aren't so good.

[316] That's it for the Daily.

[317] I'm Michael Barbaro.

[318] See you tomorrow.