#906 - Henry Rollins

[0] I'm really looking forward to it.

[1] Two, one.

[2] Boom.

[3] And we're live.

[4] Henry Rollins, we are live.

[5] All right.

[6] I like how you do the one ear off.

[7] That's the Jim Norton approach.

[8] He likes that.

[9] Yeah, I've always done it this way, so I can hear the room and hear me as well.

[10] Keep your eye on the door.

[11] Yeah, yeah.

[12] One of those guys.

[13] So listen, man, I heard you on Ari Shafir's podcast.

[14] Arie's one of my best friends.

[15] He's a good guy.

[16] I love that guy.

[17] Yeah, he's funny.

[18] He is very funny.

[19] We were both doing his thing at that club, right?

[20] You tell the story?

[21] Yes.

[22] And I saw yours, and I think I did like the month after you.

[23] So I saw yours on the internet, and then I did one, and he's the host, and that's how I met him.

[24] This is not happening, yeah.

[25] Yeah, that's it.

[26] And didn't you guys meet somewhere?

[27] Yeah, last year in August at the fringe festival, he was doing like 30 nights there, and I was doing like five.

[28] And so I guess the agent said, hey, do this thing with the hard I went, sure.

[29] And so he met me in the lobby where I was staying, and he brought his gear, and we just did it.

[30] It was cool because there was background noise.

[31] You could tell you guys were doing it.

[32] Yeah, we were in a lot of people, you know, revelers outside.

[33] I mean, that whole part of Scotland is full of people for 30 days.

[34] It's amazing.

[35] Well, what was amazing is the way you're living your life, man. It's really fascinating.

[36] Oh, thank you.

[37] And the conversation that you guys had really blew me away because you're really doing it.

[38] You know what I mean?

[39] I'm trying, yeah.

[40] You're really doing it.

[41] Like, you pick a spot on a map and you just fucking go there.

[42] Yeah.

[43] You don't know anybody there.

[44] You go by yourself and you just fucking hang out.

[45] You see what happens, yeah.

[46] Yeah, and that's usually, like, say I'll go to a place like Ulaanba Tour Mongolia for like five days or whatever.

[47] For two days, you get a tour guide just so you can get the history, like this museum, not that one, this temple, not those two, just whatever.

[48] And what I always try and do in a place like that is get the tour guide and break them.

[49] And I'm like, okay, so tell me about the corruption in your government.

[50] Well, sir, we don't have any.

[51] Ma 'am, I'm going to ask you one more time.

[52] And by the afternoon, they finally submit.

[53] I'm like, okay.

[54] And like when I was in Mongolia, the woman by the end of the day, she said, you know what, I called this guy.

[55] He's like this total, like, insurgent, like rebel guy.

[56] He wants to meet you.

[57] And I'm going to be the translator because, you know, he and his guys are starting movements in this country to overthrow the government.

[58] and he really wants to meet you.

[59] I said, I really want to meet him because they're rebelling against the government who's selling out that country for the titanium, the copper, all the mining.

[60] I think to some Ivanhoe, some Canadian extractive firm.

[61] Anyway, we go like an hour out of town to some like spy bar where there's like nobody and you walk in everyone's like, you must be on the up and up.

[62] And I sit at this table with this guy just because I was able to take the tour guide and go like, tell me everything.

[63] And I'll do that for a couple of days and try and get a real understanding of where I am.

[64] And then I just leave the hotel or the tent, whatever I'm staying in with my camera, my backpack with some water.

[65] And I just start walking.

[66] I go, well, here's the street.

[67] Look at that slum or that village or that souk or that bizarre.

[68] And I go.

[69] And so far, all 10 fingers still work.

[70] And I've been to about 100 countries in all seven continents.

[71] And the only times I've almost been killed, which was twice, was America.

[72] By comparison, the rest of the world has been very friendly.

[73] Where were the places where you were almost killed in America?

[74] In California, a couple of times, nearly stabbed to death.

[75] And a guy shot at me and my friend, and he killed my friend but didn't kill me. And so that was real close.

[76] You know, that's real.

[77] But the rest of the world, by comparison, I was in Pakistan when Bouto was assassinated.

[78] She was killed in Rawalpindi.

[79] I was in Islamabad, like a few miles down the road.

[80] And I was there for a week because the airport shut down.

[81] And I went outside every day, and no one, they just asked if I was lost if I needed help getting back.

[82] They thought I was like a journalist or embassy.

[83] I went, no, I'm just a traveler.

[84] And they said, basically, sorry, you have to see our country in this state.

[85] I'm like, no, I don't get to judge.

[86] And so I've had travel experiences all over the world where I'm met by just amazing generosity and kindness and humility.

[87] And it informs kind of how I comport myself.

[88] But that's what I try and do.

[89] I try to live an eventful life I work at it It's not by chance Like you give me six weeks off I know I'm clear I just whip out my high -res GIF file of the map of the world And I pick one country and go Okay, then I'll just go east from there Like China, Mongolia Bhutan, Tibet, Vietnam back to L .A. I'll just go do that I want to get back to this But what happened with your friend That in California Is this the same sort of a thing Where you just wanted to check out a place?

[90] No, no, no We were robbed and the guy started shooting and the guy killed my friend and shot at me and just missed me very closely.

[91] But that was a big turning point in my life.

[92] I mean, that changed everything for me. When was us?

[93] 25 years ago.

[94] But, you know, it changes everything that you think about everything.

[95] I mean, it's ever, I think everyone goes through trauma like that in their own way because it taps into everything you've ever done in your life.

[96] beforehand.

[97] But that was, you know, not to be crass, but that was a game changer.

[98] But on the bigger topic of, like, danger, the world is a dangerous place, as you know, but at the same time, I don't think it's to be feared, because then you don't get anything done.

[99] I mean, you live in America, I live in America.

[100] We're the roughest room I've ever been in.

[101] I mean, we're a coast -to -coast Phillies flyer game.

[102] You know, we are blood and teeth on the ice.

[103] I mean, we are, because freedom.

[104] We're very free.

[105] And people just, you know, walk.

[106] up and, you know, smack you.

[107] And I've never been to a country as free as America.

[108] I've been to countries that were way more hectic, like don't get caught outside at night, like, you know, downtown Nairobi or, you know, parts of Russia are kind of scary, just because they're living hard.

[109] But as far as a place where anything can happen, America's like easily the hairiest place I've ever been day to day.

[110] Really?

[111] Baghdad was intense.

[112] I was in Iraq for a few days.

[113] But that wasn't real.

[114] I was there on a U .S .O trip.

[115] so you're just kind of camping out in the green zone.

[116] What initiated this crazy thirst for travel, this wanderlust that you've got?

[117] Is this something you've always had?

[118] A combination of things.

[119] When I was young, I was born and raised in Washington, D .C., and I lived down the road from the National Geographic Museum with a big whale in the front, and the Smithsonian.

[120] And whenever there was a snow day, my mom, she worked for the government downtown.

[121] I'd get on the bus with her, and we'd go downtown.

[122] I'd spend the whole day at the Smithsonian, dinosaur, bones, astronauts, you know, that kind of stuff.

[123] It was fascinating.

[124] And my mom would save up her meager pay, and she would save up for years.

[125] She was like art nut.

[126] So we'd go hit the museums in Italy, go to the museums in France, go to see all the islands in Greece, go to England, see the National Museum.

[127] Look at Shakespeare and Chaucer's handwriting.

[128] And so by the time I was a little kid, by 11 years old, like fifth grader thereabouts, I'd been to Greece and Italy and England and different countries.

[129] And so I kind of wanted more of that.

[130] And when you grow up with National Geographic magazine, you look at the pyramids, you look at the Sphinx, and you go like, I want to see that.

[131] Like, that doesn't look real.

[132] And then eventually, I did go to all those places.

[133] You know, I stood in front of the Sphinx more than once, and the Great Pyramid in Giza.

[134] It's bigger than you think.

[135] It's like, you kind just hypnotizes you.

[136] You stare at it all day.

[137] Have you been recently?

[138] I haven't been for a few years, but I've been there like three times.

[139] I want to go, but it's just keep hearing sketchy things about Egypt right now.

[140] Yeah, yeah, it is sketchy.

[141] It'll always be sketchy, because their GDP is you showing up and going to the pyramid.

[142] It's like Las Vegas, but pyramids.

[143] Like, you can see all, you can see your hotel from the pyramid.

[144] They've made a highway that goes from the cluster of hotels right.

[145] It's like the Giza Highway, because like, what do you want to see, the pyramid?

[146] And so they take you right there, like seven minutes.

[147] You're standing in front of the things.

[148] And people are trying to, you know, sell you stuff.

[149] I would go without hesitation.

[150] You wouldn't have a problem.

[151] Well, I need to go.

[152] A buddy of mine, this has been on the podcast, named is John Anthony West, and he's created these incredible DVD series called Magical Egypt.

[153] He's an Egyptologist, like one of the most knowledgeable.

[154] Yeah, there's a lot to know.

[155] I mean, you can spend your whole life just studying one dynasty.

[156] There's so much.

[157] Yeah, I'm just a casual fan.

[158] Yeah, well, I was planning on going with him, but unfortunately he was just diagnosed with stage four cancer.

[159] A lot of you might not know about that if you do know and you hear about it.

[160] You can Google it, but I put a link up before.

[161] to try to help him and he's um yeah not good he's an older gentleman and he's been he's been trying to educate people on egypt for a long time because he's a he's a scholar when it comes to ancient egypt like and he's one of those people that's uh actively trying to kind of rewrite the history of egypt as far as like how far back it goes and they've got some pretty rock solid evidence to point to the idea that Egypt is a civilization that was probably very very advanced many many many thousands of years ago and then some sort of a natural cataclysmic disaster or probably asteroid impacts or something like that around 10 ,000 years ago sort of reset society and civilization and then they rebuilt from there with whatever was remained that's interesting I mean they benefited from having the Nile yeah because the Nile the water's rich with nutrients so agriculture is huge and people lived good lives you know the Nile is it's massive it's there's parts of it that are like still like a lake and then when you see it like in In northern Uganda, South Sudan, like right when you cross the border, you go across this river, like, you know, category five white water roaring.

[162] That's the Nile.

[163] I mean, it has a lot of different faces to it.

[164] Now, this wanderlust that you have, this like crazy touring thing where you just pick out a spot and go.

[165] How long have you been doing that?

[166] I did conventional, you know, I used to do a lot of rock and roll.

[167] And rock and roll will get you all over Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, places like that.

[168] but it won't get you to Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Mongolia, necessarily.

[169] And so in the 90s, you know, I'm like anyone else in this business, you do every interview.

[170] And they say, you're pretty well traveled.

[171] And I always have to say, well, caveat, I've never been to the African continent.

[172] And then one day I went, well, why not?

[173] And so I did some research.

[174] What do you got to do?

[175] You got to go get a bunch of shots.

[176] Like a lot of them makes you sick for like a whole day.

[177] They put so many vaccines into you.

[178] And so you go to the travel doctor and you show them what countries you're going to.

[179] They go, well, and they just line up syringes.

[180] And they got on either side of me and just like just, we're just Charlie horsing me in both arms.

[181] And they said, now you're, now you're ready to go.

[182] So I just said, well, I'm going to go to Maasai Mara on the Tanzanian border to see giraffes and zebras and lions and all of that.

[183] And the Maasai.

[184] And it was all that was great.

[185] I went from there to Madagascar.

[186] Because I just said, Madagascar, you better go.

[187] So because I saw it one day, I was on a flight from Melbourne or Sydney to Perth going across Australia and I was whipping out the map on the airplane magazine.

[188] I said, so there's Madagascar.

[189] I did not know.

[190] I better go.

[191] And it was one of the better trips I ever did.

[192] I was at my office one day near the end of 1997, I think.

[193] And I know that Black Sabbath is getting back together with the original lineup to do two shows at the Birmingham NEC in England.

[194] So I called Sharon Osborne.

[195] I said, Sharon, I got this great idea.

[196] I fly out and hang out with.

[197] Black Sabbath and bro down with a band and go to band practice and have a really good time and you put me on the guest list for the shows and I hang out for free and it's like the best time I've ever had knowing she'd hang up on me and she said let me call them and ask him if that's okay because I already knew Ozzie but I didn't know the rest of the guys and she called me later that day she said oh they think it's fine here's the address just let us know when to expect you so I booked it I booked it around my trip to Africa so I went a USA London bus up to Wales where they were practicing.

[198] Taxi, no, no, Ozzy's assistant came and got me. So I hung out with Sabbath at band practice, me and the band, in full band rehearsals, the best, watched the shows, the two reunion shows at the soundboard.

[199] And then the next day, I flew to Kenya.

[200] And so it was just a good, you know, that was a good chunk of travel.

[201] And I ended up in South Africa after all of that and said to myself, okay, I'm going to come to Africa once a year and I just started picking out different chunks of it and it just started going and that was 20 years ago and I've been there I don't know like 20 sometimes wow yeah and you never don't learn you know I call it the big book it's where you learn about life and death and oh you can learn that anywhere but you see big stuff you see people who suffer people who have no food or water security like you and I we talk about retirement and life insurance and vacation A lot of tribes, there's no words or even ideas in their lives.

[202] Like I was hanging out with some Acholi people once in Uganda a few years ago.

[203] And I had a translator.

[204] It's a Dinka guy who spoke, I guess, whatever a Choli people speak.

[205] And I said, can you ask them if they have any words in their language for life insurance, retirement, or vacation?

[206] And they understood retirement.

[207] You get too old.

[208] Your kids take care of you.

[209] But a vacation, they said, you leave somewhere and you come back.

[210] Why would you want to leave your home?

[211] It's where all your friends are and your family.

[212] and why would you ever do that?

[213] Or like life insurance, like, what the hell are you talking about?

[214] And you start meeting people who their sense of time and space is, I've got a bowl, there's some rice in it, it's like today I got, tomorrow we'll see, where you and I think, okay, in December I'm going to do this.

[215] And we really have a realistic expectation of being alive and breathing in December.

[216] And in your life, you've no doubt thought of, okay, when I retire, or whatever that means to you, money, some kind of security up the road.

[217] There's parts of the world where people live their entire like 37 years.

[218] And they don't have a day of that kind of security.

[219] They got the t -shirt, a stick, and some shade.

[220] And I try and, not as some voyeur, I'm trying to understand the world.

[221] And I can understand it by reading some books and seeing some documentaries.

[222] But there's nothing like getting out into what Mark Twain called the territory, a phrase I stole from David Lee Roth when he said it to me. And David Lee was, was actually a real inspiration to do a lot of traveling.

[223] Because one time we were talking, and he'd just come back from open sea kayaking in the Pacific.

[224] So I said, so why?

[225] He said, Henry, is because don't get eaten today is a great thing to have on your to -do list every once in a while.

[226] I said, damn, that is profound.

[227] You know what he was doing up until recently?

[228] He moved to Japan, didn't know anybody there, and he was taking Kendo lessons.

[229] He was learning how to sword fight for the Japanese master.

[230] Yep.

[231] With his dog.

[232] No, no, he told me. He called me one Sunday.

[233] a while ago.

[234] I helped him with his autobiography, so I worked with Dave really closely for many, many months.

[235] I met him when I was in Black Flag 30 -some years ago.

[236] I walked by him in an art gallery.

[237] I went, wait a minute.

[238] And he went, Black Flag, right?

[239] I'm all like, no way.

[240] It's the Van Halen guy.

[241] We became buddies.

[242] But he called me from Japan and said, you know, he's learning Japanese.

[243] He's very smart.

[244] And he was like learning Japanese and started speaking Japanese.

[245] And he's just taking lessons.

[246] You know, he said the sword guy was just like every day, just like, you're stupid.

[247] He's just like just breaking him down.

[248] Yeah, and he just got an apartment there.

[249] Yeah, I mean, he's loving it.

[250] Rockstar just gets like this normal apartment with his dog and just starts taking Kendo lessons every day.

[251] I think Dave has always had a great appreciation of, you know, that kind of discipline.

[252] I mean, he comes up through martial arts since he was a kid.

[253] And I think he's someone else in his family's into it, but he's been that way.

[254] you know, that kind of discipline and you can see it on stage.

[255] The guy is very physical, but it's coming from a real disciplined, not messing around kind of aggression and control.

[256] And Dave, I really loves Japan.

[257] He says, he called me, so I'm living in a small apartment, I'm taking my language lessons, I'm taking my martial arts stuff, and he was doing sword stuff for quite a long time, though.

[258] Yeah, he's always been involved in martial arts, and even the way he sort of approached hedonism, I always felt like it was sort of like an applied approach to hedonism.

[259] Like his rock star lifestyle thing, what he was doing.

[260] It's almost like, look, not a lot of people get a chance to do this.

[261] I'm going to do it.

[262] Yeah, one time when we were working on his book, he said, you know, I'd go home to Pasadena now and then where, you know, born and raised.

[263] And some of his high school buddies seem like, well, Dave, you know, must be nice, you know, being David Lee Roth.

[264] And he said, you know what?

[265] On graduation day from high school, we all were on the same starting blocks.

[266] you chose the bank job that's a sure thing you're going to die in that cubicle i choose and he said to sail the seas of consequence i was like i love that and i was like yeah man that's daring and so he won i mean like he's had a pretty good ride i reckon and and so in my own way you know i come from minimum wage work i'm nobody from nowhere and i got into music via punk rock because the band black flag said hey you're a crazy guy you want to try out to be our singer i'm like what do I have to lose?

[267] Yeah.

[268] And so I went for that.

[269] And it led to everything else and ultimately why I'm here in this room with you today.

[270] Do you miss rock?

[271] Do you miss touring as a musician?

[272] No. No, because I did it.

[273] I did it really hard until I had nothing left to give to it.

[274] And so now, if I went back to it, it would just be repetition.

[275] And it might be fun repetition, but it wouldn't be meaningful in that I wouldn't be putting out anything new.

[276] And for me, the day I stopped doing, music was the one, I woke up one day, and I just sat up and it was like a light bulb went on.

[277] I went, wow, I'm out of lyrics.

[278] And it wasn't like, oh, no. I'm like, okay, well, give me my scroll.

[279] I guess I've graduated.

[280] When was this?

[281] 2003 or that.

[282] And I just called the manager.

[283] I said, hey, I'm done with music.

[284] And he saw 15 % of that go poof.

[285] And he's like, no. I went, yeah, he goes, why?

[286] I said, because I got nothing new to add.

[287] He was, well, then just go out and do the hits.

[288] I'm like, Like, man, it's not what Coltrane would have done.

[289] It's not what Miles Davis would have done.

[290] I just can't, I don't want to repeat.

[291] It's not artistically brave to me. And so I'd much rather just try new things.

[292] But thankfully, by that time, I was already doing talking tours all over the world, and they do very well.

[293] Tons of acting, voiceover.

[294] I had all this other stuff I was doing.

[295] Had the book company, a record company, music publishing.

[296] I had all this other stuff.

[297] And so I just kind of let all of that stuff fill in, put it this way, I'm busier now than ever.

[298] And I don't miss the music.

[299] I see bands in the airport all the time with like the laminates and their road gear.

[300] I'm like, yeah, Rumble, young man, rumble.

[301] I had my fill.

[302] Well, it's beautiful that you did it on your terms.

[303] You decided to do it.

[304] It wasn't just, it wasn't like, there's a lot of aging rock stars that have that sort of existence where they have to go out and do the hits.

[305] And no one wants to hear you new shit.

[306] That's a big part of the problem.

[307] Yeah, and so they have to do that weird circle, the wagons thing.

[308] Like, we're going to play this album in its entirety.

[309] Okay.

[310] I go to some of those shows.

[311] I, you know, throw my money down and go see that band do that album in its entirety.

[312] It's cool, but it's not for me. Well, I've heard the Stone's still put on an awesome show.

[313] Yeah.

[314] And I think one of the cool things about it is, like, wow, Mick Jagger can still fucking do it.

[315] Yeah.

[316] He's still, apparently works out twice a day.

[317] He's an amazing shape.

[318] He's an amazing shape.

[319] There's some people, and there are.

[320] rare.

[321] They actually, it's not about money.

[322] That's when I really start trusting those old rock stars.

[323] Like Rod Stewart, doesn't need a dime.

[324] I mean, that guy can buy four countries right now.

[325] He's probably playing tonight in Las Vegas or somewhere.

[326] Elton John, they just really like doing the thing.

[327] Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, they'll be rock.

[328] They'll die on stage.

[329] And it's not money.

[330] It's not like, hey, we might get popular.

[331] It's like, man, we really want to play brown sugar.

[332] I don't, but I admire them.

[333] I think it's, what I'm saying is, I think it's real.

[334] Well, I'm sure it is real.

[335] Yeah.

[336] I'm sure it's real with a lot of them.

[337] But what I like with you, what you're saying is that you had already figured out all these other paths in life that you were enjoying putting your creative energy.

[338] And you just decided to just do those.

[339] It was summer 1984.

[340] I was 23.

[341] I was in Black Flag.

[342] And we were touring.

[343] We were staying out of California because the Olympics were coming.

[344] We knew the cops would just be looking to smash down any supposed near -do -wells.

[345] So we just stayed on tour the whole year pretty much.

[346] And I noticed all these great bands around me, very talented.

[347] talented people.

[348] And everyone, we're all broke between tours.

[349] We're like living like sharks.

[350] If we don't like tour, we don't eat.

[351] And between tours, the guys in that band, they're all waiters.

[352] I'm not putting that down.

[353] I'm saying, but the music wasn't keeping you in rent 12 months a year.

[354] And I'm not nearly as talented as any of them.

[355] So I said, man, if they're, those guys are struggling, then what am I going to do?

[356] I better get plans B, C, D, E, F, and G together.

[357] And in those days, I just started my little book publishing company.

[358] So I'm going to work harder on writing.

[359] I'm going to become much better.

[360] So I started doing the talking shows.

[361] I'm going to get much better at that.

[362] And I'm going to start saying yes to things when they come along.

[363] A couple of years later, Hollywood started calling, hey, can you act?

[364] I'm like as well as I can sing, click.

[365] But I started, you know, acting.

[366] It was Crispin Glover, the actor.

[367] One day he said to me, he said, Henry, as a, just please consider acting.

[368] Just like, just if you get an audition, don't necessarily say no just because you're the music guy.

[369] Like he said, I think you might really like it and you could probably do it.

[370] And so I said, And within a year, I was doing film.

[371] And then, hey, can you do a voiceover?

[372] I'm like, yeah, I got a voice.

[373] And so I just started saying yes to more stuff.

[374] And that was the plan.

[375] Just have more things to do, which is fine, because I don't like sitting around anyway.

[376] And then ironically, music ended up being very, very good in all of that for me. But I had plans, other plans.

[377] And I've noticed a lot of old geysers around my era, they didn't come up with something else.

[378] And they just, I don't know why.

[379] and they didn't make another plan and they get put into those weird tours where they're you know you bring your kid and all of that and it's more that they got more than they want to and I'd rather wake up wanting to do stuff not having to do stuff I think like you were saying a while ago like less obligation just so you clear the deck so you can really do what you want because life is short I mean last week I was 20 and now I'm 56 I mean it goes by really fast it doesn't matter if you're in a cubicle or a prison cell man you wake up one day you're like damn that was fast and so you might as well make it as much as what you wanted to be as possible because all you're getting is older i don't understand why people don't fear that i wake up every day but with the uh the grim reaper's scythe whistling by my ear going you better get up man and it's all the up i need i don't ever sleep in i mean how many hours a night you get Between four and five or six.

[380] That's going to age quicker.

[381] I don't like it.

[382] I don't like sleeping or you don't like that.

[383] No, no, I love sleeping.

[384] I just, you know, I get up, I'm like, ah, damn, man, I got to do stuff.

[385] But doesn't that diminish your energy when you're up?

[386] Sometimes, yeah, I have those woozy afternoons, right?

[387] I take the seven -minute power naps in my chair at the office.

[388] But I just try and, you know, what I have found, if you want to not have to sleep eight hours a day, if you maintain a really good diet, you can shave about an hour.

[389] of sleep off you keep your proteins and your carbohydrates lean and stay away from food that's really fun to eat you know burgers french fries and all that which is i'd live on that if i could but if you keep your diet really together and you keep your workouts up i have found that you want to like not get tired during the day work out at five in the morning and the rest of the day you're just kind of buzzing where you think you'd face plant onto your desk sometimes when i'm really humming i'm up at 4 30 and i'm in the gym by a 4 .55 p .m. And I'm just, you know, on the 5 a .m, you mean?

[390] Yeah, 455A, yeah.

[391] Oh, 5 .00.

[392] Yeah, you said PM.

[393] Oh, sorry.

[394] No. Yeah, early in the morning, figuring, you know, oh, by noon I'll just be like dead asleep.

[395] Uh -uh, man, I'm wired.

[396] And to go to sleep at night, like last night I was, I was kind of wired.

[397] So I just started doing, like, people have drinking games.

[398] I was playing 45s on my record player.

[399] So when I would, whenever I would have to flip the 45, I would do a set of push -ups And so I played a bunch of 45s last night So I did a bunch of push -ups And by the time I'm done with the 45s I felt like I'd been caned by a pro in Singapore I was so tired, man So I slept dreamlessly last night That's like a dead man You wrote a piece a long time ago That I really enjoyed about power lifting And it was something along the lines Of the iron never lies Yeah, it doesn't lie Yeah I love that It was great Because it was People put that in gyms all over the world It was so, you nailed it because it was so honest and it was, it's just so highlighted what is so beneficial about forcing yourself to do hard work.

[400] Yeah.

[401] And the fact that you are going, okay, I don't, I'd rather not, but here we go.

[402] Yeah.

[403] And it's, I like it.

[404] You build that muscle.

[405] I'd rather not, but here I go muscle.

[406] Yeah.

[407] And that's more important than any brawn you're going to have.

[408] You know, it's, it's, for me, the workout is all, I go to the gym to get my head.

[409] right the benefit is i you know you you you get in good shape but it like i just finished a bunch of shows i did 27 shows in america i just finished a bunch of shows i did 27 on one day off 27 on two and a half hours on stage in night no notes talking it at high rate of speed the only way i got through that was really good diet and three days on one day off workouts it was it was the workouts that alleviated the stress that made the sleep restorative the muscle tissue uh absorbent to et cetera and made the shows good and so for me the workout since i was about 15 that's been as much a part of my day as anything just to otherwise i get you know kind of mentally clogged i get depressed now are you still doing all those are you still doing power lifting oh no no no no my body left the building on that years ago when you when bevis and budhead uh made fun of one of your songs that did you remember that oh yeah the liar song was fucking great yeah made a sell It sold a lot of records.

[410] It wasn't the worst thing that ever happened.

[411] But goddamn, dude, your neck was as big as my waist.

[412] You were huge.

[413] It was actually fatter than my ears.

[414] Really?

[415] Yeah, there's just those muscle groups that just jump up.

[416] You know, if you do a lot of shrugs, also, your traps are, like, equal to the top of your head.

[417] Their muscle groups does just blow up.

[418] And those, what are those, like, the sterno mastoid muscle, whatever that big one is on the side of your neck.

[419] I just, everything I did seemed to hit that muscle group, the way I, like, pull up a deadlift, or the way you hold a bar during squats that neck muscle is always doing something to support a lot of weight and so it just got worked and worked and that's when the bee was somebody like oh he's got a big neck I like that yeah when did you stop doing the there is right there yeah yeah that's 94 we shot that in the desert we shot that in the Mojave Desert when did you stop doing the power lifting oh it's in the early 2000s just because I felt problems in my back and you know I'm wrapped for squat day I'm like you know belt belting up I'm wrapping my knees I was like really going for it and like my frame I just can't support my attitude and so my attitude is like I'll lift the whole damn gym and my I was reminded my body went not really you're more of a swimmer runner type that you're not trying to and so I was lifting a lot for a guy my size and my you know the my bone mass right and so at one point my back and shoulders started hurting and like a different kind of pain like you know that you shouldn't be doing this anymore and so the workouts i do now if i can't lift it 10 times i just don't i just pull the weight down so i can so a lot of it's um you know treadmill elliptical and uh stationary bike and a lot of pull -ups push -ups and uh like you know a lot of compound uh lifts like you know bench press stuff like that but mainly a lot of pull -ups uh TRX the straps the guy who invented them gave them to me as a gift Yeah, that's great.

[420] And they're great, because it's just you and your body, and that natural resistance, I have found that makes me a bit more limber, and I don't know, I don't need to lift everything in the gym.

[421] I'm 56.

[422] You know, I don't, all I can do is, like, blow out that one day and never be able to raise my arm over my head again, you know, because I blow a shoulder out, so I don't need it.

[423] Do you fuck around with yoga at all?

[424] Uh -uh, but I admire it because you see people who do yoga, and they're so, not only are they flexible but you can tell they're really grounded in themselves like they're really they're coming on with an energy that I don't have well it does something to you uh the alleviation of tension the increasing of range of motion and flexibility it also does something to your mind yeah that's what noticed and they're grew they're grueling classes like an hour and a half in a hot yoga room it also does something to your body that's probably related to sauna treatments like they've shown that sauna treatments and heat shock proteins do amazing things to your body to reduce inflammation and, and just the grueling physical and mental grind of getting through a class.

[425] I've heard the hot yoga is brutal.

[426] Oh, it's brutal.

[427] Because, you know, people, I've met so many people as you do.

[428] And girls have said, you know, you think you work out hard.

[429] You should come to me on a yoga class.

[430] You'll crawl.

[431] You won't even make it.

[432] Like, they try and challenge me. I'm like, actually, I'm kind of scared of all that.

[433] They said, you want to work out?

[434] You won't be able to pick up your car keys at the end of it.

[435] Well, I'm sure you can pick up your car keys, but it is really brutal while you're doing it.

[436] Afterwards, you don't feel the same way you feel like if you lift weights too hard, you know that feeling like, oh, well, you can't move your body.

[437] You don't really get that.

[438] But you do get just fucking to the point where you're looking at the clock and you realize there's 20 minutes to go.

[439] You're like, I don't know if I can do this.

[440] Right, you feel like 20 hours.

[441] Yeah, your head is hot.

[442] Your body's pouring water.

[443] Wow.

[444] You can lose five, six pounds in a class easily.

[445] Yeah, I've heard that about those spin classes too.

[446] People lose too much weight.

[447] They have to stop and, like, go less days a week.

[448] Yeah, that makes sense because you're also on the momentum of the energy of the room.

[449] If the instructor's really good, you get hyped up and you start pushing a little too hard.

[450] Yeah, I've never been in any class like that.

[451] I'm not the biggest people person.

[452] That's why I started working out when I was in high school because I couldn't throw the ball straight.

[453] So the gym was always empty.

[454] So I just wear them there.

[455] But I've never, you know, been in like, hey class.

[456] I've never done that.

[457] Well, the good thing about yoga class is no one talks.

[458] So even though you're around those people, there's no interaction.

[459] It's just, you kind of feel each other, and it's kind of cool because you push each other a little bit without communicating.

[460] But I'm a big fan of it, man, and I think as far as, like, increasing your longevity of your body, the use of your body, it seems to me that what it does is kind of forge all the connections between your joints and your body and your core, and it just makes everything better.

[461] Right.

[462] Like, I don't have as much, nearly as much back pain as I used to.

[463] I'm more flexible than I have been in years.

[464] I've been like a year and a half, maybe almost two years.

[465] I've been really into it.

[466] And how many days a week do you go?

[467] I try to do three.

[468] I usually wind up one.

[469] I usually wind up one or two.

[470] But I try for three.

[471] When I can get three and I do it.

[472] But between that and all the other different kinds of workouts, like you really, what I like to do is I like to wake up and decide what I'm going to do when I wake up.

[473] And some days I'm like, I want to go kickbox.

[474] I want to go to jujitsu.

[475] I want to lift weights.

[476] I want to go to yoga.

[477] That's cool.

[478] Yeah.

[479] Like we were talking about before the podcast started, what I'm trying to do with my life at this point, I'm almost 50 and 49 I'll be 50 in August is to have as a few obligations as possible and as much passion and interest as possible.

[480] Yeah.

[481] And just sort of pursue the things that I'm really enjoying.

[482] That keeps you ageless.

[483] I just have met so many people by 23.

[484] They're kind of retired.

[485] Or then you meet some 75 year old guy who just run rings around you and it's all in your head and the choices you make.

[486] And I've seen both ends of that spectrum or the old guy is like younger than you'll ever be and the young guy is just like so boring and so you know he turned into his dad or something like damn man who got to you well what I take fuel from is like things like your podcast with Ari because I was listening to you talk all about the adventures that you've had and the travel and the way you go about it and I got fired up man I was listening to that I was like I love this I love that you no one's telling you to do this this isn't a fucking cubicle job Oh, no, you're just deciding.

[487] Self -starting, yeah.

[488] Yeah, you're just deciding to do this.

[489] Realizing the most gratifying thing in my life consistently is coming up with an idea, you know, where it goes from the cerebral to the physical.

[490] Like, I'm going to write this book.

[491] Okay, three years from now, I'm still going to be working on this thing.

[492] It's a long journey.

[493] So here we go.

[494] Or I'm going to get to this country.

[495] Or I'm going to get back to this country and come in through that way.

[496] And you just make these plans.

[497] And then months later, boom, there you are.

[498] Like I was in Thailand making a documentary years ago, and I was reading in the Herald Tribune at breakfast one morning, I was in Shanghai, that the following year was going to be the 25th anniversary of the Bhopal disaster in Bhopal India, when Union Carbide India limited the methyl isosyanate tank exploded, killed a bunch of people.

[499] I said, I'm going, I'm going to be there for the 25th anniversary, so I took an entire year and researched, and I was there for the 25th anniversary, I was in the March, I snuck onto the Union, Harbide India Limited Site.

[500] I found the exact panel where tank 610 blew up.

[501] I found the switch.

[502] I went all the way to where I was standing in front of it with a tag on the thing says M -I -C -Methyl.

[503] I so cyanate.

[504] I think that's it.

[505] That was the gas that hit the water and blew up.

[506] They're making bug spray there.

[507] Wow.

[508] And so I went all the way to like here is where the guy was flicking the switch going, oh no, oh no, the gas scrubbers, the neutralizers aren't working.

[509] And I was sneaking around.

[510] There's like armed guards.

[511] They're not going to shoot you, but they'll tell you they'll kick you off and so I just make these decisions and then ultimately you're booking the tickets you're booking the hotel and then one day you are crawling through the weeds avoiding security guys on their motor scooters with your camera sneaking in and out of buildings getting your shots I mean I love to take these things from like sitting in a coffee place going oh to like wow here I'm in Laos in Zienkwing at the plane of jars is a place I've always wanted to go to I saw it in a documentary and then Two years later, I'm at the plane of jars.

[512] And you're writing about all this tip, too, right?

[513] So this is a thing, you're taking the photographs and you're writing, I assume, blog entries?

[514] Yeah, I write for the LA Weekly once a week.

[515] I write for Rolling Stone Australia once a month.

[516] And then I've written about 27 books, and they're in translation.

[517] Jesus Christ.

[518] Yeah.

[519] So, and I own the company, so I sleep with the owner every night.

[520] And so a lot of my books are travel.

[521] I do like two years of journal at a time.

[522] In the middle sections, photographs.

[523] I'm working on my second photo book.

[524] My first one came out.

[525] And the second one's going to be pretty cool because it's all my North Korea shots.

[526] That'll be crazy.

[527] Oh, wow.

[528] You went to North Korea?

[529] Yeah, it took three years to get that visa.

[530] A few years ago.

[531] It was just sad.

[532] Was it when Kim Jong -il was still alive?

[533] It was Kim Jong -il, yeah.

[534] The last days of Kim Jong -il before Kim Jong -un.

[535] Yeah.

[536] And it was just, you know, like when I was in Iran, just like they point you at what you're supposed to look.

[537] Act.

[538] Don't look over here.

[539] It's a propaganda.

[540] How much time did you spend in North Korea?

[541] About a week.

[542] I was in Pyongyang and the areas around Pyongyang and then I went there via Beijing and then from there up to Mongolia, then over to Bhutan.

[543] What was North Korea like?

[544] Just sad.

[545] You know, there's poor people who are scared of their government.

[546] And my tour guys, since I went there alone, they were very suspicious of me. I'm sure.

[547] They put two tour spies on me. The nice one, you talked to me. and the mean one who just scowled and took notes.

[548] And every day, the guy would ask me basically the same question as like when a detective is trying to peel the layers of onion skin off.

[549] So you said you're a businessman.

[550] I'm like, yeah.

[551] And like, so what do you do?

[552] Well, like, you know, I edit books, which is true.

[553] Right.

[554] And it's really, what are the books about?

[555] I said, well, you know, often they're not that good.

[556] I was just winging it.

[557] And so you're all put in one hotel.

[558] you and the Dutch tourists and the Australians everyone's in the one hotel across the bridge that's with men with rifles you're not going anywhere and so every day they go on their buses and I get in the car and the Australians recognize me the Brits recognize me and they all want photos and I we're walking to the whatever that room is the room where the north and south meet where they come in through the northern door and the southern doors that blue room the DSJ I'll come up the joint the JSA the joint security area something like that I pulled one of the Australians to the side I said can you please call your friends off me because my tour spy is starting to ask me really weird questions about why people want their photo with me and if I'm caught being in movies writing books rock and roll I'm going downtown for a meeting that I might not get out of and so he cooled out all his Australian friends but then there's this one British guy who just kept getting in my face with a camera because you're all getting taken to the same places and I'll never forget this, my tour guide who for the previous three days was like his English was from school like, Henry, he went from that to how does this guy know you?

[559] And all of a sudden his English was as good as mine.

[560] I'm like, oh no. And I'm not good at lying.

[561] So I said, I met him in the breakfast room.

[562] I don't know maybe he's hot for me. I have no. I just turned to explain it away.

[563] And I just had to kind of go, I don't know.

[564] And I had to try and avoid this guy and I was getting I was really nervous the last day I was there when they finally took me back to the airport in Beijing I'm like damn man am I really getting on this plane and when the plane took off man I just like okay I did that but why wouldn't you just say I'm a musician I'm uh because I won't let you in I went on a tourist visa and if you claim any of that you're going to get tons of scrutiny and they're not going to let you in they won't let you in if you're an artist absolutely absolutely not because they just they fear it they fear what go back to the mainland with same thing in Iran well not only because you're a public person they know but how the fuck do they let uh the basketball player what the fuck rodvin yeah because he towed the party line and just told Obama you know just just call your pal kim sure that'll work out great and same thing when I was in uh was I went to Tehran via Dubai and the guy who met me at the airport after the airport people got done grilling me uh he said look I got your visa I know who you are I'm not your tour guide he's a government guy.

[565] Don't tell him what you do for a living.

[566] We'll never get you out of here.

[567] So the last Jesus Christ.

[568] Yeah, the last day I'm in that country.

[569] I'm eating dinner with this guy and his amazing wife.

[570] They're both like rocket scientists.

[571] And they, you know, they get by with a website that gets visas done.

[572] So his cousin, her cousin, Anusha, the woman, her cousin, calls her and says, your friend Henry's on TV.

[573] And Ahmed dropped his fork and said, we've got to go.

[574] We've got to So we have to get you to your hotel.

[575] You got to pack up right now.

[576] We just go to the airport, check in, check your luggage, find a corner, put your face in it, and wait for the flight.

[577] And I got to the airport like four hours early because he said, you just, you got to go.

[578] Whoa.

[579] And so I just sat there in the airport with my face down and then eventually got on, like, you know, the 3 a .m. to Dubai and I was out of there.

[580] Holy shit.

[581] Yeah.

[582] What would have happened if you got caught?

[583] Questions, which leads to more questions.

[584] and you just don't know.

[585] It turns into like, well, he's been interrogated for the last three months, and we don't know.

[586] And since I'm not a hot -looking girl, President Clinton's not coming to rescue me. And so those are the two countries I've been to where don't tell them what you do with what I was instructed before I left.

[587] Wow.

[588] Yeah, because anywhere else, you know, you just go and show up.

[589] Now, do you go to all these places that you go to, do you pick places where there's, like, high populations of people?

[590] Or do you ever go to like really nomadic places?

[591] I tend to choose places where there's just been in an election or there's going to be an election or there just was a war where there's conflict where you see signs of the wrath of globalization, the wrath of global climate change, places that are politically hot.

[592] All of these are of great interest to me. During the Bush administration, he said, don't go to this country, this country, this country.

[593] I went to all of them.

[594] Went to every axis country they had.

[595] And then I even went to the ones that Ms. Condoleezza Rice told me not to.

[596] to go to.

[597] I went there too.

[598] She told you personally?

[599] No, no, no. On TV.

[600] Don't go to Belarus.

[601] Right, right, right.

[602] Go to Belarus.

[603] And so I try and, I tried to go to all of those places.

[604] And I'm fine.

[605] I came back in one piece.

[606] But in the last few years, I've started doing more eco -travel to learn about, you know, co -biodiversity, codependent ecosystems.

[607] So two years ago, summer 15, I had time off because I wasn't on tour.

[608] And so I went to Easter Island via, I was in Ecuador for a while on the Nopo River, which is the tributary of the Amazon.

[609] And I went on a science boat.

[610] And I just sat with scientists, botanists, bird people, and learned about how the jungle interconnects and how this parasite kills that tree, which fertilizes that tree.

[611] And it's really integrated.

[612] It's amazing.

[613] And they're losing their force because of timber and oil, you know, the big money.

[614] And cattle production.

[615] too.

[616] That I did not know about, but when I was in the interior, and it's all about hardwood and oil, and all those, you know, the Rwani people, the interior tribes are just getting discovered and, you know, their land is getting cleared out.

[617] And the government's making a ton of money off cannibalizing their own land.

[618] And in November of 2015, I was, I went to Antarctica.

[619] And that's the most substantive trip I've ever made.

[620] made.

[621] That was the most mind -blowing trip I've ever done where you, you know, you see, like you go on Deception Island and you look down and there's bits of broken glass, you know, from the whale killers.

[622] They use that island to process and render whales.

[623] So it's like chips of whale bone and all the crap these people left, tin shacks.

[624] There's like a transmission in the sand from some vehicle.

[625] And you see what unregulated slaughter looks like, where they're just like, hey, let's make a bunch of money.

[626] Screw the animals.

[627] We'll grow back.

[628] And then you're hunted down the seals and whales those particular species to extinction and so I did a I got on a ship full of scientists and you take lectures every day and you walk around amongst the the gen two and the chin strap and the Adeli penguins and you learn a lot and you it's hard to take because it's almost destructing in front of you and it's sad and it's beautiful it was like being on the moon I mean you didn't want to sleep just for looking out the window or walking around with some penguin walking by you was surreal and I'm hopefully November of this year, I'll have some time.

[629] So I made friends of the scientists on the ship, and they said, look, obviously you're really into this.

[630] You should come back because we have a longer trip we do that starts in the South Georgian Islands.

[631] I went, oh, I'm there.

[632] So I'm going to see if I'm not working in November.

[633] I don't have my schedule yet.

[634] If I'm free, I'm going, and you go down through Argentina, and you leave from there.

[635] Oh, wow.

[636] So it starts in Antarctica, you work through Argentina.

[637] How long is this trip?

[638] Yeah, well, you go down.

[639] The first time, the one time I went, I went Buenos Aires down to Ushuaia, which is the southernmost city in the world, and that's where you pick up the ship, and you go through the Drake passage, and by day four, finally, you start seeing ice, and then you look off and like, well, those are penguins, and there you are, but it takes days to get there.

[640] Wow.

[641] Yeah, and then days to get back.

[642] So there's like three days on either end where there's kind of nothing to do, but take lectures in the lounge about history and all of that, which I did, with my notepad out and questioned the lectures afterwards and got a ton of information.

[643] I keep in touch with them actually.

[644] What a fucking bizarre and exciting life you're living, man. I'm trying.

[645] I love it.

[646] You know, knowing I was going to be meeting you, and I must say, you know this, you have a lot of fans.

[647] And I wish I had a dollar.

[648] For the last few years, so many people have been writing me, saying, like, you should be on Joe Rogan's podcast.

[649] And like, or have you done it yet?

[650] And I missed it.

[651] And like, and finally, this was like, and I knew who you were.

[652] So it wasn't like, who's this Joe Rogan guy.

[653] I'm like, enough already.

[654] But Man, people like you.

[655] And I used to, you remember that show UFC Primetime.

[656] Yeah.

[657] Yeah, I was the voice.

[658] Yeah, I did that voice.

[659] So I don't know a lot about sports.

[660] But I learned a lot about MMA just because I'm these people, these fighters, become relevant to me because I'm seeing their names over and over.

[661] And I'm watching the footage.

[662] And, you know, I met B .J. Pan.

[663] I interviewed him once for the independent film channel.

[664] Or, no, for participant media, I think it was.

[665] anyway, I started being more aware of these fighters and all of this stuff and then that's when I saw you and I was thinking about you the other day knowing I was going to meet you thinking like here's this guy with this very interesting life because I've seen the stand -up on TV and there he is in the middle of the octagon with like you know some guy who just got finished knocking the crap out of some other guy that's a very eclectic life you've got I mean, you are doing, I'm sure you didn't grow up anything like the rest of your family and all the kids you went to high school with.

[666] You went a different way, right?

[667] Yeah, obviously.

[668] I mean, right.

[669] So when did you decide it's not, you're not going to be a realtor in your face isn't going to be on the bus bench?

[670] Well, I had zero work ethic towards anything that I didn't enjoy, but anything that I did enjoy with, I'd become obsessed with.

[671] Yeah, me too.

[672] And just, it would occupy all my thoughts.

[673] and I couldn't wait to do it 24 hours a day.

[674] And then when I got out of high school, I took a year off before I went to college.

[675] And the only reason why I went to college was because I didn't want people thinking I was a loser.

[676] I was tired of telling people that I wasn't doing anything.

[677] So I went to college.

[678] I went to Boston, UMass Boston.

[679] The only reason why I went is because I didn't want people thinking I was a loser.

[680] And I knew that I could not exist in a regular job.

[681] I just didn't have it, whatever it was.

[682] Yeah, it's a thing.

[683] When you know you don't have it, It's kind of scary.

[684] Like, oh, no, I'm not going to have a straight life.

[685] Oh, no, what am I going to do?

[686] It was like it was radioactive.

[687] Like, I would take construction jobs and it was like I was being poisoned.

[688] Yeah.

[689] You know, it was like literally like I was getting radiation from it.

[690] Yeah, you feel like you're dying.

[691] You're young and you're awake and you're like, I'm dying.

[692] This is killing me. I thought I was going to have a life of those jobs.

[693] I went out of high school.

[694] I went one semester at American University in Washington, D .C., trying to see if I liked college.

[695] I liked learning.

[696] I just didn't like, you know, I hated school.

[697] So another four years.

[698] on a student loan like one semester it took me so many years to earn my way out of that debt and so i just kind of went into the working world going this is this is going to be rough i mean this is going to hurt it's going to be swollen feet and a lot of top ramen noodles and no sleep in my crap apartment but this is my life and i felt like someone was strangling me because i just knew i didn't know where i was going to go or what i should be doing but i knew that this wasn't it yeah this was going to kill me well i think there's a lot of people out there like that and for some awful reason they never find whatever it is that can break them free they never catch a ride on that river out yeah you know and I got lucky I found stand -up comedy and uh I had already I think a lot about a lot of it had come from martial arts too I'd fought a lot and I competed a lot in martial arts tournaments and I think that from that I realized that like these unconventional paths they brought me something that I wasn't getting from regular life it brought me self -esteem It gave me this feeling that it wasn't a loose.

[699] It was the only thing that I'd ever done my whole life where I've said, wow, maybe I'm not a loser.

[700] Right.

[701] Like I kind of thought I was an outcast and a loser.

[702] And then all of a sudden I was successful at something, only because I was obsessed with it.

[703] But then I knew there was no way I was ever going to be able to hold a regular job.

[704] And then I got lucky when I was 21 and I found stand -up.

[705] And so from then on, I'd kind of like locked into this thing where I'm just going to do what I like.

[706] And fuck what everybody says because everybody's giving me advice to do this and advice to do that.

[707] And it never seems to be what I want to do.

[708] And their advice is coming from a different world.

[709] And they mean well, but they're coming from the whole other value system and a whole other expectation of their own lives and what your life should be and all of that.

[710] And all of it is not poison, but it's just kind of anathema to every breath you're taking and it's ultimately useless.

[711] And they're always going to tote that line.

[712] That's what they've got.

[713] Like you've got what you've got.

[714] So when you say, here's how I do it.

[715] They're like, you're crazy, man. And then you look at them in that job and you're like, you're the crazy one amongst us, because I couldn't handle wearing that tie every day and taking it from that dude.

[716] Yeah.

[717] And some people, I guess, like the corporate world.

[718] I just, I got lucky and I found a bunch of shit that I like.

[719] And if you had said to me, you know, if you asked me if I was, you know, outside of my life, and if I didn't know that I existed and you said, do you think it's possible to be a cage fighting commentator slash stand -up comedian?

[720] I'd be like, no. Right.

[721] They don't go together.

[722] When you travel and they say, they.

[723] They say occupation.

[724] What do you write?

[725] That's a good question.

[726] I always go, oh, no, what do I do?

[727] If I'm going somewhere for the UFC, I always write UFC commentator.

[728] It's the easiest one to do because then they go, oh, yeah, I know you, and then they let me in, and it's easy.

[729] You know, if you're getting your passport stamped.

[730] But most of the time, I write comic, stand -up comedian.

[731] Yeah.

[732] Yeah.

[733] So that's, if I had it, like, one thing that I definitely do, it's that.

[734] Everything else I could kind of quit.

[735] Right, right.

[736] And even that I could kind of quit.

[737] You know, I mean, you could kind of quit everything.

[738] Yeah.

[739] Yeah, and sometimes maybe it's maybe a good idea to clear the decks.

[740] Yeah.

[741] Citizen of the world.

[742] That's what I would say.

[743] Professional citizen of the world.

[744] You know, and also I think there's a bravery that one takes when one embraces the straight world that I simply don't have.

[745] There's a level of guts where you're like, well, I don't really like this job, but I love my family.

[746] I'm going to do the right thing.

[747] I don't have a family, so I don't really, I'm not tethered to that value.

[748] I admire it.

[749] And if I was a dad, I'd be standing up.

[750] but there's a kind of guts where you just get on that bus every day and go like damn man I don't like this job and you grimly hold onto your sack lunch and you just go do it I think like my mom and my dad I don't know them that well but they were very hardworking people and I'm not sure how much they ever really loved their jobs like I can't wait to go to the office they just kind of went I'm an adult and this is what you do and they just kind of put themselves through that grinder and turn the handle themselves you know and they They just get, and I think a lot of people all over the world, they just kind of grimly set their jaw and go, I'm an adult, and they go out into it.

[751] And you look at a guy like Iggy Pop, you know, who could never have a straight job.

[752] It would just be, you know, the thing would fall over.

[753] Right.

[754] Because he's an artist, too.

[755] He's the real thing.

[756] And it's innovation, but it's an intolerance.

[757] And it's, for me, just a lack of courage to tow that line.

[758] I'm like, man, I just don't have it.

[759] I don't have the stamina to go into that building every day for 28 years.

[760] Like my dad went to one building for his whole life was one corporation he worked for.

[761] And then he stopped.

[762] I don't even know he's alive or dead.

[763] But he was that guy in that building every damn day, like hours and hours.

[764] There is a dance that when you discuss these things, like you don't want to disparage anybody that it genuinely has shown courage and grinding it out for their family.

[765] It does take courage.

[766] I just don't have it.

[767] I'm saying I consider them.

[768] People in the real world and in my life I don't think I really live in the real world that much.

[769] I live in my self -invented Henry world.

[770] Right.

[771] And I saw this video with Lady Gaga.

[772] I don't know much about her music, but she did this long intro, the $80 million thing.

[773] And she said, she goes like, reality, I hate reality.

[774] I was like, I, there you go.

[775] I just can't handle a lot of it.

[776] And I don't shy away from it.

[777] I go into situations that are hyper real.

[778] But that kind of, flatline existence that a lot of we adults engage in, I think that would have destroyed me. I would have found alcohol or something really destructive.

[779] Yeah, it's a droning, resonating existence.

[780] It's bong.

[781] Yeah, and some people go, hey, suck it up, and you'll get in there, and it's not that bad.

[782] Cheer up, and it's not that bad.

[783] I just don't want it.

[784] I don't want it.

[785] I don't want it.

[786] But people are malleable.

[787] Some people can get through it.

[788] yeah they have they they just have a different mind but if you were like if you had a friend that was doing that but you know that friend really wanted to be a novelist wouldn't you just fucking go dude please just try yeah but but you know what write a book in your spare time but get out of there but the thing is you've said that to him or her before right and like these people write me hey man I my band is pretty good should I I'm my two years into college should I quit college and take my band on the road and the truth is if that person really had the thing.

[789] They wouldn't be writing me. They would just be telling me when they were playing.

[790] Yeah.

[791] I never asked for advice.

[792] I never, I just said either I'm going to play this music or I'm going to die trying.

[793] It never occurred to me that there was asked advice about what.

[794] And so I never had any fear.

[795] I ran at it and I didn't care if there was a wall there or the cops.

[796] I just ran.

[797] But surely you must have had heroes that did it also before you so you felt like there was a path.

[798] No. No, not definitely not.

[799] like you did it, but a lot of rock stars, a lot of bands, a lot of musicians, a lot of artists, they pursued their goals, they went out and chased things, and you knew that it was a path.

[800] The ones I had met before I was doing music full time were all broke.

[801] Like, I met some punk rock bands, like from England, you know, like whoever.

[802] And you're like, yeah, you're broke, too.

[803] And they're just crazy people, and I identified with that.

[804] But sometimes, have you ever been done a show where you meet that, that actor who has had like 80 years of acting class and all they talk about is their acting coach and like after I get off the set today I'm going to go back to my class and like all they do is take classes you're like man if you're all you're going to do is ever take classes you're never going to the rubber's never going to hit the road because you're always in the on pause with the acting because some days you just got to go like I'm doing this and like that's me and if it doesn't work man it's really going to hurt yeah so here we go Like with music, I never was like, oh, are we going to make it?

[805] Make what?

[806] I'm just trying to do a good show.

[807] I never thought I would ever make money doing music.

[808] I never thought I'd ever be able to pay my rent.

[809] I just reconciled my life to a life of fighting, bad tasting food, and sleeping, you know, next to the drummers snort all night in the back of the van, hoping the bass, the bass player, the guitar player didn't drive us into a tree because we didn't have a driver.

[810] It is what it is.

[811] It's independent music.

[812] And you just crawl through these tours.

[813] It makes you pretty tough.

[814] You're like a junkyard dog.

[815] but I never thought it would ever change.

[816] I just figured, this is your life.

[817] And eventually, you know, the guy hits you with something and you die in the hospital.

[818] I just, I was not a fatalist.

[819] I'm like, this is it.

[820] And I never saw past that.

[821] And then in the 80s, you know, the band got bigger or whatever.

[822] But I've always run at things going, well, this is it or die.

[823] Well, I never thought there was any wiggle room or any cushion or much alternative.

[824] I'm not that resourceful.

[825] I'm just kind of, you know, crazy enough to run at it, and by running really hard, I've gotten through it.

[826] But it's not because I'm smart or good looking.

[827] It's just because, as Richard Gear once said, I've got nowhere else to go.

[828] And that has really helped me where I'm going to get through this tour.

[829] So I've got nothing else going on.

[830] I'll stay in this band because I got nowhere else to go, but be in this incredibly hard to be in band.

[831] And that's been very helpful to me. Like, this really hurts.

[832] Well, it's better than the pain at standing there with the end.

[833] apron behind the counter.

[834] That was a different kind of paint.

[835] Yeah, but you've managed to transcend that, obviously.

[836] You know, you've managed to find this very unique path in life where you're doing all these different things.

[837] You're not, no longer in a band anymore.

[838] And now you're this worldwide traveler slash performance artist where you're doing these spoken word things.

[839] They're really funny.

[840] It's kind of like stand -up.

[841] And I had a lot of comedy.

[842] Yeah.

[843] I had bought a couple of your CDs way back in the day.

[844] It was like in the 90s.

[845] And because I I thought it was music.

[846] Right.

[847] And I saw that you were, and then I was like, a spoken war.

[848] Like, what the fuck is this?

[849] I mean, I listened.

[850] I was like, it's just kind of like stand up, but, but in a freer form.

[851] Yeah, more anecdotal.

[852] Yeah.

[853] No, did you, did you, when did you start doing that?

[854] Many, many years ago, in 1983, there was a local promoter in Hollywood and he would take like 20 people, give everyone five minutes.

[855] And it'd be the singer in the gun club, the guy from the minute man, the guy from this band, the girl from that band.

[856] And I would go to these shows, because even when, you would go to these shows, because it was bad.

[857] It was great.

[858] And everyone was cheering.

[859] You know all these people.

[860] So if it sucked, you know, you'd applaud even harder.

[861] Black Flag's bass player would be on these gigs.

[862] And he'd go up and, you know, read from his notebook.

[863] He's an amazing intellect.

[864] And I would always go hang out with him.

[865] And one night the promoter said, you got a big mouth.

[866] Let's get you up there next week.

[867] And I go, I don't know, what am I going to do?

[868] He said, like, you know, 10 minutes, 10 bucks or whatever it was.

[869] I said, man, I'll take that money.

[870] And the next week I got up there and I read something that I had written and told a story about what had happened at band practice the day.

[871] before when a white supremacist tried to run over our guitar player with his car.

[872] And the audience is like, ah, I go, yep, that was Tuesday in the life of Black Flag.

[873] Well, my time is up.

[874] I got to go.

[875] And so I walked off stage, big applause.

[876] And everyone came up to me and said, when's your next show?

[877] I said, well, I'm going on tour.

[878] I thought they met the band.

[879] They went, no, no, just the next show where you just talk.

[880] I go, well, I got this $10 bill.

[881] That was it.

[882] And the promoter said, you're really good at that.

[883] You're natural.

[884] How about you open for two of my poets next week.

[885] we'll give you 15 minutes.

[886] And a few times around with that, those poets are opening for me, which they didn't like.

[887] And by 1985, I had done a cross -country tour and, you know, 12 to 15 people a night.

[888] And they called it spoken word, which I thought, there's a way to starvation.

[889] I don't want to go see a gig that says spoken word, the snorfest.

[890] So I've always just called it a talking show.

[891] So I would read things and anecdote between pages.

[892] And then one day, I just stopped bringing the things to read on stage and said, look here's what happened when I was in Holland and you know the thing and I just tell stories and by the late 80s I was doing the entire continent of Europe Scandinavia Australia New Zealand and then went on and on where the last tour was 19 countries and 165 shows that's what I came back from last week wow and it's like it traveled like comedy it's like me in a microphone and but I it's more general admission theaters but every once in a while, I'll do like the Melbourne Comedy Festival, the Sydney Comedy Festival, or like three nights of comedy, and I'm like doing an hour on one of those nights.

[893] I did a comedy club on this last tour.

[894] There's a night off or doing a thing at like the laugh bucket or one of those places.

[895] And, you know, the PA is like bolted into the wall.

[896] There's no monitors.

[897] There's one light.

[898] And me and my big tour bus out front, it's like right next to the strip bar.

[899] And I went in there and I went, okay, all those little eight by ten frame photos on the walls.

[900] I don't go into places like this.

[901] It's not below me. It's just not my world.

[902] Sold the place out.

[903] The audience couldn't have been nicer.

[904] And the owner thanked me. And I said, man, if I'm ever back in this part of Illinois, I'll do this venue again.

[905] And he said, we'll be here.

[906] And it was a really good time.

[907] And so a lot of what I do kind of lends itself to comedy in that life plus time.

[908] Most of the time is funny.

[909] And comedy, I don't try and I don't write material really.

[910] But when you, things that are, I just basically report on that which is funny and many things occur to me either ultimately or eventually to be funny.

[911] Like almost anything, obviously some things are never going to be funny.

[912] But most things are, like I don't know which way your politics lean that much.

[913] But you can look at the president administration go like, IE, we're all, you know, going down the drainer.

[914] You can go, man, this is the lowest hanging fruit.

[915] This dude has just jumped up on a table onto the silver platter with his ass in the air.

[916] an apple or in his mouth.

[917] Like, this is going to be great.

[918] Like, he's serving himself.

[919] He's jumped into my lap.

[920] This is great.

[921] And so there's different ways of looking at all of this.

[922] And I guess comedians just look at things differently.

[923] I've met many of them.

[924] I'm not one.

[925] But there's a lot of comedy or at least humorous moments that inform what I do on stage, which allows me to go for a long time on stage because if it had no humor in it, it would be stultifyingly boring for me and for the audience.

[926] In a lot of ways when an.

[927] administration has really fucked up, comics do take joy in it because they know like during the Bush administration, like there was eight years of gold.

[928] And Trump is that times five or ten.

[929] You know, it's this, but it's also when you find that gold mine of humor, it also equates on the other end to a disastrous time for the country.

[930] Yeah.

[931] And that's where it gets scary.

[932] Environmentally, it's getting scary.

[933] You know, there's, there was a, there's a proposal now to get rid of public lands and to make public lands private and start tapping into them and sucking out the resources and ruin all these places that people go and hunt and fish and hike.

[934] And it's been, you know, I think it's a really beautiful thing, what they call the commons in this country, where you can go to the park.

[935] And I don't know if you ever spent time in parks.

[936] There's a decency that you'll often find where like the family picks up the garbage.

[937] And you'll even see the little kid picking up the cup because it's our park.

[938] Right.

[939] And I'm not Mr. Cumbaya necessarily, but I love that idea.

[940] Like, don't screw this up, man. It's yours and mine.

[941] Like, and while we're here, let's cut the crap and be really cool to each other and really appreciate these trees.

[942] So I grew up in Washington, D .C., and you've been there.

[943] It's a small town dropped into a park.

[944] Everywhere you go, you run into a deciduous tree.

[945] Right.

[946] And he's Rock Creek Park with a White House near it.

[947] I mean, it's just park, park, park.

[948] And so I grew up every day.

[949] I'm outside looking.

[950] at bats and finding toads and like outside of my apartment is a park and I was outside all the time and I really came to love that ethic of this is ours like when you're on the subways in Russia there's no garbage they really take pride in their subway they're beautiful and it's our subway don't litter and I think there's a rectitude and a moral decency that we Americans skew towards when we're in these places that we're all somewhat responsible for And to take that away, when everything becomes me, mine, I drew the line, you step over and I kill you all that stuff, it doesn't bring out the best in us.

[951] And I think those public lands are really part of what keeps us from, you know, going crazy.

[952] And to see them be, you know, because you know there's people like Trump who look at Central Park and go, what a waste.

[953] What a waste of land.

[954] I could put nine hotels, four casinos, and a theme park in there.

[955] Well, Teddy Roosevelt and a lot of the people that established the national park system in this country many, many years ago, they had an incredible vision.

[956] They realized that we have this amazing landscape and they decided to preserve it and put it in the trust of the public, make it a public thing where anyone can go.

[957] Anyone can go and anyone can go and can go and can.

[958] It's a beautiful thing.

[959] It's amazing and it doesn't exist anywhere else.

[960] It's a really, really rare resource that we have here in America.

[961] And right now, during this administration, we're in danger of losing that.

[962] It's very scary.

[963] You know, I'm not one who gets up every day with a hate list of people.

[964] And I don't think Donald Trump wakes up every day going, how can I screw a bunch of people?

[965] I really don't think that's on his menu.

[966] But I do think he's a businessman who's looking to make deals.

[967] The tell for me was when the president said, if Vladimir Putin agrees to help us in the fight against ISIS, I'll consider lifting those sanctions.

[968] It's not, you know, we'll make a deal.

[969] He does that, I'll do this.

[970] We'll get that.

[971] He gets that.

[972] That's a deal.

[973] He's a deal maker.

[974] That's not really a deal in global affairs necessarily all the time, especially not with that guy on that particular issue.

[975] And I think he's kind of tone deaf to some of the more nuanced things that it takes to be America in an ever more interconnected world with ever more diminishing resources.

[976] and to start privatizing America, chopping up the parks and all that.

[977] It's real sad if that happens because I really enjoy being able to go into a place and go like, I can walk in here.

[978] Or even like I grew up, you know, a shy kid who didn't play well with others.

[979] So I would go to the library all the time.

[980] So I had that library card and I can take this book home.

[981] Well, yeah, you got to take care of it.

[982] Okay.

[983] And I read the book and take it back.

[984] All those Alfred Hitchcock, you know, stories for kids or whatever.

[985] I read all that stuff.

[986] And the library was a big deal for me because I felt like an adult.

[987] I have my card.

[988] I can walk into this massive, interesting, smelling, cool building.

[989] And it's mine.

[990] The whole thing is mine.

[991] I couldn't believe the freedom I had in there, these ancient seats and the place smelled of books.

[992] And it was mine.

[993] I never got my head.

[994] It was never not amazing to me to walk into the library and go like, any damn book I want.

[995] I can walk into any section and no one's going, hey, kid, get out of here.

[996] Right.

[997] And I, that's what you get in a park.

[998] And, you know, when you're in New York, there's a lot of that.

[999] They're like, look, it's our sidewalk.

[1000] It's our subway.

[1001] Be cool, man. And there's an inherent, a lot of people fear New York if they've never spent time there.

[1002] And there's an inherent decency amongst New Yorkers because you are so smashed together.

[1003] You're going to make human contact.

[1004] Right.

[1005] You're going to bump into someone.

[1006] It is what it is.

[1007] So you better bring some humor and a little bit of like, hey, it's okay.

[1008] And I see that in New Yorkers.

[1009] It's just really great greatness.

[1010] And when you make us cheap and petty and we turn into some Twilight Zone episode, that is what I fear in this country is us kind of cheating ourselves out of how great we are when you don't scare the crap out of us all the time.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] Well, I mean, Trump is just such a polarizing figure.

[1013] I hope that it unites us in a lot of ways.

[1014] So we realize how good we have it and we realize what really is important.

[1015] And that having this guy who so many people are opposed to and having these policies that so many people are opposed to, even if you're not opposed to him, I know a lot of people that supported him that are now looking at some of these policies, particularly the public land policy, and they're kind of freaking out.

[1016] I think a lot of that is going to unite folks, and it's going to make people understand what is important.

[1017] Like that gigantic women's march the other day.

[1018] That was impressive.

[1019] Incredibly impressive.

[1020] I mean, who saw that coming?

[1021] Right.

[1022] Out of nowhere.

[1023] I mean, one statement that he makes, Google.

[1024] and around with a guy that Billy Bush character on a bus essentially led to that movement.

[1025] Otherwise, why else would it be only a woman's march when he gets into office?

[1026] It was because he's got this perceived attitude about women, and this is a rejection of that.

[1027] Yeah, and I think he's getting used to being on the global stage where every hiccup, every cough, shifts the world's markets.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] I mean, and I think other presidents have rocked that responsibility far more.

[1030] more gracefully.

[1031] Even presidents I don't necessarily agree with, they really understood the awesome weight of that job.

[1032] And they really kind of feared it and tried their best.

[1033] Even presidents whose policies I disagree with, I think they really got the magnitude.

[1034] When you think about your life, you know, you have this wanderlust and this passion for exploring new environments and learning about new cultures.

[1035] And, you know, and we're also talking about just the fucking great pull of death because it is there and it's always to be considered when you're looking at a guy like that who's older than us he's 70 something years old right and that fucking life is a meat grinder that job is the greatest aging job we've ever seen it destroys people we've seen people go in and they I mean you see the beat Barack Obama before and after pictures like that's crazy so what is going to happen to Trump I mean he's a fucking old man already with bad diet and why Why?

[1036] Like, what is, when you have $4 billion or whatever the fuck he has, when you have your name on all these buildings all over the world, like, what is the motivation to continue?

[1037] That's what I've, I've always wondered with, like, the Koch brothers, like the two angriest men in America and the Obama, the tyranny of Obama, they'd always opine about, like, dude, you've got $34 billion.

[1038] You can have me killed right now and all the pizza you want.

[1039] And why are we so angry again?

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] Oh, where's the tyranny in your life?

[1042] 34 billion?

[1043] Shut up.

[1044] And I think with some people, I did a movie many years ago, one of the first ones I was ever in with a very big movie star.

[1045] And someone told me how much he makes in a year.

[1046] And I went, that's, wow.

[1047] And why does he, what's up with that?

[1048] He said, well, all his friends have a hundred million.

[1049] And so he wants to catch up.

[1050] I said, but after the first 50, it's like going out in the rain while you're soaking wet, going, ow it's raining like pal you're already wet like what do you do with the other 80 billion are you like what what is it and i think with some people it's maybe coming from some gnawing insecurity and it's nothing's ever big enough like you've been around famous people i've met a number of big actors or big rock stars and the big the bigger the rock star it's just my experience the bigger the rock star the more humble and cool they are the more they love me music and they're like they're humble in front of it and they ask what you're doing and and i've met some you know i've been lucky i've met a lot of my rock heroes and they're like just really hoping like when i met george carlin once i just done the beacon theater and he was about to go do one of his HBO specials there and he said did did people get the jokes i said what do you mean it's like did people understand you when you're on stage do you think it'll be okay i's like you're asking me if your show will be okay you're george fricking carlin man i mean like Are you kidding?

[1051] And to see that kind of, not insecurity, but that kind of like, hey, did it go okay?

[1052] Because I got to go there next.

[1053] Yikes.

[1054] Like, you're George Carlin.

[1055] You walk on water.

[1056] But the fact that he was still wanting it to be okay that he didn't think, I've got this on George Carlin.

[1057] I was like, damn, he's still open.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] He still looking that he could go south.

[1060] He might have a stinking night while the cameras are on.

[1061] And he still fears having a bad show.

[1062] It means so much to him.

[1063] and I think if you're in that mode you can greet the day better but when you look at things like well I don't have as much as he has or some guy made a nasty tweet about me and I'm going to get on Twitter and answer back oh no and I'm the president nothing the point I'm making is nothing satiates that thirst like he's in the top executive slot and he's still probably grumbling about something or just wanted to win And now that he's got it, when he did his acceptance speech, I was in Washington on the night of the election on stage at the Lincoln Theater.

[1064] I watched the whole damn thing until five in the morning when he made his acceptance speech.

[1065] And the look on his face, on Mr. Trump's face was, wow, I've just sought off a big chunk of meat for myself.

[1066] Oh, no. It wasn't joy.

[1067] It was like, now I got to go to all those meetings.

[1068] Oh, damn.

[1069] This is a big dog I just bought.

[1070] This is a lot, a lot of, you know, a big deal.

[1071] And I just I think one of the ways he'll escape the stress of it is I think he'll put it off on other people He'll delegate Mike Pence will be it'll be President Pence and you know, the other guy is looking good for the cameras And so I think that's how he'll get through it because it destroyed Bush Eight years of the presidency took Bush was a very handsome man when he walked into office He came out of there destroyed and he was far younger, right?

[1072] How old was Bush when he was in his 50s when he got into office?

[1073] Late 40s, I think a little older than Mr. Obama and And Obama, too.

[1074] Hair went gray.

[1075] He just got skinnier somehow.

[1076] They just get so tired.

[1077] Just because you don't get, I was saying this on stage the other night, the presidents don't get that three in the morning phone call.

[1078] Mr. President, in Maine, the cat that was in the tree, the fire department got the cat down.

[1079] The cat's fine.

[1080] God bless you.

[1081] God bless the United States of America.

[1082] They come down to the Situation Room and look at the high resolution video footage of the girls' intestines sailing through the air for the drone strike that went zigged when it should has act.

[1083] they get bad news and they make gut -wrenching decisions where they go we're going in and all those people are going to die that there's every president makes those decisions and it's a job you'd have to you couldn't pay me enough this is i wouldn't want a day of it and i think you either have to be either a nut or truly think i've got this i'm neither uh and so i'm not that kind of megalomaniac and i just don't ever think i got it and i don't know what trump is going to do with a job that has not you see the last days of johnson and he didn't even serve two terms like the vietnam war destroyed johnson his face was falling off his skull there's those sad shots of him and macnameer in the situation room with his his hand is on his cheek and his face is falling down his chest because every one of those deaths i think really aggrieved the president he's an interesting president the more you read about him the more interesting he becomes.

[1084] But I think it's a job that fairly destroys.

[1085] The only one it didn't seem to really destroy was Clinton.

[1086] I don't know why.

[1087] He seemed to kind of walk out of there like, you know, hey.

[1088] Yeah, but he looks like shit now.

[1089] I mean, he's paid for it now.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] But the last few presidents, it's damn stressful being running this country.

[1092] And because we're so free.

[1093] I mean, you've traveled.

[1094] No country in the world enjoys our level of freedom and not our kind of freedom.

[1095] Like even Germany, England, where, you know, it's the Western world, it's free.

[1096] Nah, it's not nearly as free as this.

[1097] And we're so free to try and tell us what to do.

[1098] You don't tell an American what to do.

[1099] And sadly, the president is part of the federal government.

[1100] And so the states are already pissed off at you.

[1101] And any president, you know, you get bucketed.

[1102] You went on vacation.

[1103] Well, it's Christmas.

[1104] How dare you go on vacation?

[1105] I went to my mom and said, oh, you're seeing your mom now?

[1106] I mean, there's nothing a president can do where half the country doesn't get mad.

[1107] And we'll see how our new president takes it.

[1108] I want him to be successful because I want every boat in America to be lifted by the tide.

[1109] I want good for people.

[1110] I disagree with people.

[1111] I'm not that guy.

[1112] I feel the same.

[1113] Yeah, I don't want some state to go into the toilet because they don't read good or something.

[1114] It's not how I want to run it.

[1115] Well, I like the fact that he's talking about rebuilding the infrastructure and putting people to work in that regard and rebuilding American manufacturing.

[1116] I hope that really does happen.

[1117] And people do get good jobs.

[1118] And the economy does rise up.

[1119] What I worry about is all this corporate raider mentality backed by these people that think that he's somehow or another looking out for the little guy.

[1120] Like, I just wonder, you know, I wonder what his motivations are and I wonder how this is all going to play out.

[1121] But I guess everybody does.

[1122] Yeah, but, you know, to me, when someone says, oh, this new president, what he's doing is unprecedented, and I'm like, no, America's a broken 45.

[1123] We just keep repeating trickle -down economics with more parts or less parts per million.

[1124] in that in the early days of slavery, to be well -landed gentry in America was great.

[1125] You bought land, you bought the materials, and you built your plantation.

[1126] You bought livestock, human, and animal.

[1127] When they bred, you kept the offspring.

[1128] Human, offspring, chickens, all of it was yours.

[1129] And you got free labor.

[1130] Things were great until 1865, the 13th Amendment, the abolishment of slavery.

[1131] And so that mentality of like, you had a good day to day because I didn't beat you.

[1132] That's your good day.

[1133] And here's your gruel.

[1134] And what do I pay you?

[1135] Here's your gruel.

[1136] Get back to the field and have another day where I don't beat you.

[1137] That's a good day for you.

[1138] That was an unbothered road to a brutal utopia.

[1139] And what you have over the years is these speed bumps, civil rights.

[1140] And that's where you get institutionalized apartheid.

[1141] You get Jim Crow.

[1142] You get an expansion of the clan.

[1143] You get segregationist laws that sat on the books until like Brown v. Board of Education in 1954.

[1144] Virginia versus what love v. Virginia.

[1145] That's the miscegenation laws, 1967.

[1146] Obergefell v. Hodges, Marriage Equality, 2015.

[1147] And these are speed bumps.

[1148] If you're oppressive and you just want to pay this guy what you feel like giving him, minimum wage and all that stuff is your enemy because you don't want these people being able to stand up.

[1149] And I think when Mr. Trump said, make America great again, I hate to say, I think he was talking about 1861 in the years before.

[1150] When I paid you what I wanted to, it's my factory.

[1151] How dare the government tell me what to pay you, like, minimum wage, time and that's what he means?

[1152] I mean, I think what he means.

[1153] Not in a mean way, like I want you to have a bad life, but look, I have a great factory.

[1154] I'm giving you a great job.

[1155] Here's what I'm going to pay.

[1156] Rejoice.

[1157] You've got a job.

[1158] But it's not enough to feed my family.

[1159] Well, you know, beans on the weekend.

[1160] Cheer up.

[1161] And I don't think he wakes up every day going like, I want to kill people.

[1162] I want to murder Americans and have them have a crap life.

[1163] I just think he thinks like, look, we'll own stuff and you'll be the beneficiary.

[1164] As it falls from my mouth and trickles down to you, you'll be happy that I have so much money because I'm a beneficent master.

[1165] Now, you're a guy that's really seen probably more of the world than one -tenth of one percent of the population of America.

[1166] I mean, you've been to so many different places.

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] Now, do you think that because of that, you have a unique perspective on what is possible today?

[1169] Because in 2017, if you just live in America, this is the only thing you've known, you think of the world as sort of this sort of state that we exist in, but you haven't gone to North Korea, having gone to Mongolia, having gone to all these different places, we see oppressive regimes, you see very bizarre cultures where people are rigid in their ability to move around and rigid in their ability to behave and express themselves?

[1170] And you see that that, it could have turned out like that here, you know, but it didn't.

[1171] We have this unique sort of experiment and self -government, and it's sort of hobbled along and it's patched up with duct tape and gorilla glue, but it's here.

[1172] Yep.

[1173] It's here.

[1174] We are a miracle.

[1175] The fact that there's not been a second Civil War more catastrophic than the first shows you how amazing the Constitution is.

[1176] And even though we disagree a lot between the states and all of that, that we do ultimately get.

[1177] along.

[1178] We're all still united.

[1179] We argue a lot, but we're still here.

[1180] And I did two years of programming for the history channel.

[1181] I was talking to one professor, and he gave me that sentiment.

[1182] He goes, like, we are a miracle, because let's think of all the people in this country you disagree with, and yet, here we are.

[1183] And what I have found by travel is what humans can still survive.

[1184] When someone go, like, there's poverty in America.

[1185] Sure, there is.

[1186] But not poverty like you see in Bangladesh, not poverty like you see in the streets of Cairo.

[1187] I mean, there's poverty that no American will ever experience in this country.

[1188] It'll never happen.

[1189] Like, no way.

[1190] There's a, there's a stick, a poverty stick that this country will never be whooped with.

[1191] That for other people in the world, millions of them, that is their entire life.

[1192] I was on a boat years ago on my way to Timbuktu with this guy I'd travel with before.

[1193] Tuareg man named Mahmoud.

[1194] I've been to, I went to the desert music festival twice to see all these African bands.

[1195] What is the desert music festival?

[1196] It was a festival that had it, they had in Mali in the Saharan Desert, and now it's too dangerous, so the festivals no more.

[1197] Wow.

[1198] But I went to go, because I buy all these records from Mali and bands, so I wanted to go see them do it in the desert.

[1199] So I went in 2008 and 9 or 9 and 10, something like that.

[1200] And I went overland through Dogan Country one year, and then the next year I hooked back up with this guy, Mahmoud, and we took the Niger river on a boat.

[1201] The guy chain smokes every day.

[1202] And I said, Mahmood, man, like, you're a freaking chimney.

[1203] Like, what are you trying to do?

[1204] And he laughed.

[1205] He said, I'm, like, I'm 30.

[1206] I was supposed to be dead two years ago because people in his tribe get about 28 to 30 years.

[1207] And he just kind of laughed and kept smoking.

[1208] I'm like, okay.

[1209] And so what I've learned by travel is what humans can still, how they can still live in spite of what they, what their circumstances are.

[1210] And what that means to me when I get back here is you have a lot to lose.

[1211] I mean, it can get so much worse and you'll still get by because humans are just so resourceful and we're so tough.

[1212] But we shouldn't ever have to go near that because we're smarter than that.

[1213] And, you know, me and this other guy might disagree and he might call me a bunch of nasty names on the internet.

[1214] But ultimately, does he really want to kill me?

[1215] Nah.

[1216] If I was in a burning car, would he try and pull me out probably?

[1217] If I had a sandwich and he was hungry, would I give him half?

[1218] Yeah.

[1219] And I think to forget that aspect of us, since at least the Bush administration with the polarization in this country has been so extreme, I think we have started to forget that we can be there for each other.

[1220] And I'm not saying we all need to have a big group hug, but when we are having such vociferous disagreements about health care, like we're talking about people being able to stay alive.

[1221] Why are we arguing?

[1222] Right.

[1223] Instead of just making a system where, like, the little old lady doesn't have to be in fear of dying alone with heaters that don't work or whatever.

[1224] Like, come on.

[1225] We have such a beautiful patch of land because, you know, I've been all over the world.

[1226] There's some parts where people live.

[1227] You're like, what are you people doing here?

[1228] Like, this part of Africa wants you dead.

[1229] Why are you here?

[1230] That's where we live.

[1231] Where America, we are, this is one long vacation we have in America as far as climate.

[1232] It gets cold, but you can always boogie down the road to my.

[1233] Miami in a Greyhound bus in seven hours, be in your shorts.

[1234] I mean, we've got a good here in every possible way.

[1235] Yeah, we certainly do.

[1236] We really do.

[1237] Now, I think it's really important what you were talking about, about people on the Internet and that sort of bizarre communication that we experienced today.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] Do you remember pre -Internet?

[1240] I mean, you were a grown man before the Internet came around.

[1241] Don't you think that this existence that we have right now, where we are sort of communicating without looking at it?

[1242] other without being there in front of each other.

[1243] Yeah, unless you be really cowardly.

[1244] Yeah, without social cues, without feeling emotions because of cruel statements, without, like, looking each other in the eye where I don't really feel like we're designed to communicate like this.

[1245] And it's, well, it certainly goes against how I was raised.

[1246] It's, it's very strange.

[1247] It's a very strange time in that regard.

[1248] Yeah.

[1249] And it leads to a lot of pettiness and just really mean stuff where the issuer of that, whatever, that mean email or whatever, I wonder if they look back at that a week later, you're like, man, who was I that afternoon?

[1250] Because you read, there's stuff you can read.

[1251] It kind of, you know, it peels the pain off your car.

[1252] I mean, I go on these chat room websites and I just read.

[1253] I don't ever post things.

[1254] I just read.

[1255] And when we had our last president, there was things said about him and his family.

[1256] You're like, did you just write that?

[1257] Yeah.

[1258] It's depressing.

[1259] Like, I read like three hours of it one night in like 2000 and something.

[1260] I'm like a baboon.

[1261] Oh, man. I mean, really, like, that just happened.

[1262] Like someone actually thinks that.

[1263] I don't know.

[1264] Well, what's interesting is when they get found out and someone exposes whoever wrote that and then they focus on them publicly and you see the scrutiny of like, you know, thousands, if not millions of people come down on those folks and how they fucking panic.

[1265] Yeah, but then those people turn into that.

[1266] Right, they turn into that same monster.

[1267] They have the green light to go after them.

[1268] Yeah, and all of a sudden, you know, it's like a twilight zone episode.

[1269] Like, now you got the stick.

[1270] Right.

[1271] And like, you know, why are you hitting that guy?

[1272] Because he's hitting a guy with a stick.

[1273] Right.

[1274] Look at you guys.

[1275] And so I come, and I'm sure you can identify with this.

[1276] I come from the world of if you say something, that guy comes around the corner and goes, like, would you say, wham?

[1277] Right.

[1278] And he just broke your face.

[1279] And so I never say anything about anyone not expecting to turn the corner and be face to face with that person.

[1280] And so if I ever talk about a politician or, you know, I had a lot of disagreements with Judge Scalia and people like that, and I'd write about it in the LA Weekly.

[1281] I would have loved to have debated the 14th Amendment with Antonin Scalia, who said it didn't have any of the traction that I think it does.

[1282] And I, and any politician I bucket on, including Trump, I do, which I have fun with.

[1283] What's the 14th Amendment again?

[1284] The four, equal protection under the law, 1868.

[1285] It's basically if you're born and raised here, you get all the same protections as the wealthy land guy.

[1286] It was basically slave protection.

[1287] It was the one that came after the 13th.

[1288] It was to sure up the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery.

[1289] It's my favorite amendment of the Constitution.

[1290] It's five clauses that the two, three, four, and five are basically governmental mechanics, but it's the first paragraph and it's beautiful.

[1291] All people born and naturalized in the United States are a resident of the United States and of the state wherein they reside, et cetera, et cetera.

[1292] And it's a beautiful thing.

[1293] And I think, I think that was put in place to make sure racists understood that the 13th Amendment wasn't going anywhere.

[1294] And that's what gives like, you know, people like, well, you're an anchor baby.

[1295] That's just the 14th Amendment.

[1296] And Scalia didn't do.

[1297] He, in his dissent on Obergefell v. Hodges, he came down very hard on the 14th Amendment, which is my personal favorite.

[1298] So, but my rationale is if I talk about somebody, I expect to see that guy within five.

[1299] minutes and have to answer for what I said.

[1300] So I am very careful with what I say because I take responsibility for what I say.

[1301] Like you said something mean about Dick Cheney.

[1302] Yes, I did.

[1303] He's right over here.

[1304] Really?

[1305] Can I talk?

[1306] Please let me. I want to talk to him.

[1307] If you stare at him, he turned a stone.

[1308] Well, you know what I mean?

[1309] I just, I don't say anything that I'm not ready to, because I've ever met Anne Coulter?

[1310] No. After you wrote that thing about her?

[1311] You had that thing You wrote about her And then there was a video You writing it Yeah I really really enjoyed that Oh thank you very much I'd love to meet Anne Coulter And just you know Spend an evening with her And just figure out You know what the fuck is going on How do you get so much self -loathing How do you do that?

[1312] She's so odd I know one female comedian Who I'm sure you're very well aware of And she knows her Well you know they've met on like Bill Maher or something And I said what she like She said the self -loathing is like Just off the charts She's not a bad person and you feel kind of sorry for her when you're in the green room with her because she just hates herself.

[1313] And, you know, Ms. Colter's not here to defend herself.

[1314] But that's what I've heard about.

[1315] She's not a bad person.

[1316] She just, you know, reads every tweet about herself.

[1317] And it stays up at night with all of that.

[1318] I don't know.

[1319] You know, Bill Maher is friends with her, which I've always found very odd.

[1320] Like, he talks about her, like, as his friend.

[1321] And he has her on and they joke around.

[1322] They're jovial together.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] And I'm like, well, what the fuck is going on there?

[1325] Like, well, who is she that?

[1326] Is she this act?

[1327] I think she's a little bit of both.

[1328] Yeah, she's a little bit of both.

[1329] She knows that butter the bread.

[1330] She knows that she says stuff that's over the top.

[1331] It helps her sell books and gets her airtime.

[1332] Recent one with the Trump book she wrote.

[1333] I mean, just the cover alone was like so bizarre.

[1334] But it's there to piss you off or get you inspired.

[1335] And eventually you can go to some market and buy those books for $5.

[1336] Because honestly, they don't sell.

[1337] Her books don't sell?

[1338] Not really.

[1339] That's why you can buy them for $5.

[1340] bucks i have a few of her books i bought them at places like costco with a big sticker on them i've read like a couple of her books they they go through fast i read i read um the bush's autobiography i got that at costco she wrote a bush autobiography no i read george'll be bush's autobiography yeah it was a creola coloring book for adults there's no footnotes there's no index but you kind of end up liking him after the book is over but i yeah because he's just yeah it doesn't seem like the worst guy but i i i read um sarah palin's last book america by heart i got That is it written a crayon?

[1341] No, but it's like, you know, 80 point type.

[1342] It's like a 5 ,000 word feature in a skinny book.

[1343] And it's, it's funny.

[1344] But I read these books that I want to see sometimes where these people are coming from.

[1345] Like there's that fellow, that internet terrorist guy, the guy with the long polysyllabic Greek last name.

[1346] Internet terrorist guy.

[1347] Yeah, Yana Papacopopopopoulos.

[1348] He has that book.

[1349] He's on his spoken word.

[1350] right now, the Dangerous Faggot Tour.

[1351] Oh, Milo.

[1352] Milo, Unopos.

[1353] Yes.

[1354] I've had him on a couple of times.

[1355] He's interesting to me. He's a fucking weirdo.

[1356] He's a very interesting guy.

[1357] He's incredibly smart.

[1358] In March.

[1359] Yeah.

[1360] And I wrote in the only weekly two weeks ago.

[1361] I said, I'm going to read his book.

[1362] I want to read it.

[1363] I don't think I'm going to find consensus.

[1364] But I'm honestly interested in finding out where this guy gets off.

[1365] Because he doesn't offend me. I just kind of feel bad for him.

[1366] Why do you feel bad for him?

[1367] Just because it's a lot of agro to.

[1368] kind of drag around.

[1369] I mean, you have to kind of invent all of that.

[1370] She's fat.

[1371] Just say it.

[1372] Oh, pal, you're just manufacturing stuff.

[1373] That must be a real drag to...

[1374] I would like to see the two of you guys talk together.

[1375] I think that would be kind of fascinating.

[1376] I actually enjoy Milo.

[1377] I enjoy his company.

[1378] I enjoy talking to him.

[1379] He's not a bad guy, but a lot of the stuff he says is retarded.

[1380] Well, I think he's trying to get someone to jump out of their seat.

[1381] For sure, yeah.

[1382] He's calculated.

[1383] He has a book coming out called Dangerous, I think.

[1384] It's on Amazon.

[1385] His whole thing is the Dangerous Fagget Tour.

[1386] That's what you can't have that on the cover of a book, so it's just dangerous.

[1387] Right, but I went to Amazon and in Show Nuff.

[1388] It's coming out next in March, I believe.

[1389] And so I'm going to read it.

[1390] I'll probably be a bestseller.

[1391] He's smart.

[1392] Yeah, I know he's smart.

[1393] But I was just interested to see, I mean, I read a big part of Dick Cheney's autobiography.

[1394] What is that like?

[1395] Fascinating.

[1396] Is it in Latin?

[1397] Like ancient Latin?

[1398] No, but like, you know, the guys had 80 lives.

[1399] I mean, he's like served under like five presidents.

[1400] something.

[1401] I mean, he's not a boring guy.

[1402] It's been a very interesting life.

[1403] You know, Nixon, Ford, Reagan.

[1404] He's been in the Oval Office a lot.

[1405] He's been in that building a lot.

[1406] He knows where all the bodies are buried.

[1407] And I don't want to live with these people, but as far as like seeing, you know, reading what they have to say, I'm curious in that way.

[1408] And that I want to know what is on someone's mind I might not agree with all the time.

[1409] Right.

[1410] Well, it's a good way to broaden your perspective, get an idea of how they're bringing.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] Everyone is essentially coming from the truth, their version of it.

[1413] That's acting class, right?

[1414] You've got to be in that moment or whatever.

[1415] And when I'd see these Trump rallies, these people really do hate Hillary Clinton.

[1416] They hate Barack Obama and they really do want to build that wall.

[1417] It's all as real as me sitting here with you right now.

[1418] And I might not agree, but you can't not say they're sincere.

[1419] They're burning analog.

[1420] It is as real as anything you've ever felt as real.

[1421] I don't necessarily want to get into the inner mechanic.

[1422] of that person, because I kind of already know where it's coming from, a lot of xenophobia and half knowledge.

[1423] But you can't say that they're not legit.

[1424] And you just saw that they spoke quite loudly, and Mr. Trump won, well, not the popular vote, but the electoral college, certainly.

[1425] And so I want to know more about who I share a country with.

[1426] I can't spend all day with it, but I do designate some bit of the day to try and figure this out.

[1427] Otherwise, how do you get up the road if you don't know.

[1428] Because I don't want my enemies in America.

[1429] I don't want to, I don't want enemies in my own country.

[1430] People I disagree with, yeah.

[1431] But ultimately, I want to get up the road with them.

[1432] In order to do that, I can't be, I don't want to get beat up by some guy getting out of his pickup truck to drill some freedom into my forehead with his fists.

[1433] Because, you know, I'm just not, I'm not built for it.

[1434] And who is?

[1435] So I'm looking for a higher way to get up the road.

[1436] I don't I'm not all that hopeful, but I still try and dissect or forensically go through that American id. I travel through America.

[1437] It's what I've been doing for 36 years.

[1438] I meet more Americans than any president.

[1439] I hear the stories, like you hear the stories.

[1440] Henry, my friend died in Iraq and he loved you, and I hear that story.

[1441] My friend killed himself last month, and I'm really screwed up about it, and I want to tell you about it.

[1442] So I hear, I get a lot of input, and it makes you like all these people.

[1443] Like, I'm the fat gay guy in Utah, and no one likes me, and my parents kicked me out of the house when I was 18 because I'm gay.

[1444] And, like, you go, oh, man, you don't want to be mad at anyone when you hear stories like that.

[1445] All you want to do is, like, give him a Devo record and go, like, keep breathing, kid, don't self -harm.

[1446] And so the more stories I hear, it makes me want to be more decent to my fellow Americans understand us better.

[1447] And that's one of the reasons I travel globally.

[1448] It's one of the reasons I do a lot of shows in America.

[1449] And I do a lot of listening.

[1450] And I think that's what we don't do anymore.

[1451] We listen, but when you log on at Patriot 185 and you give some liberal snowflake, whatever they call these people, some grief on the internet, you're only listening to yourself.

[1452] You just like disagreeing with people and piling on.

[1453] It's very fret, boy.

[1454] Yeah, well, you definitely can get into an echo chamber and lose perspective.

[1455] And you don't get out.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] Well, I think what you're saying is beautiful because, I mean, it is a good idea to have an open mind and try to find out why these people think.

[1458] a diametrically posed way to the way you think or what find out what is their motivation what was their background what what caused them to reach this conclusion and ultimately how can we get going right you know because life is short and i want renewable energy in my time i don't want it to be feared i don't want solar panels to be gay you know i'm sick of this who says solar panel gay is there anybody well just you know what i mean like that whole idea like oh would you a science guy would you a pussy like yeah right yeah that's what scientists are you know that's what scientists are you know one thing whenever you tweet something about global climate change, one of the first things that happens is these trumpets jump on board and they start attacking what you're saying and then tweeting, like, I don't know if they've researched it or not, but it's just like immediate attitude that the people on the right seem to have where they immediately want to dismiss anything that diminishes industry, anything about climate change, anything that protects the environment, you know, whether it's about this Dakota pipeline access thing, that's just, you know, that Trump is just getting involved with.

[1459] Yeah, he greenlit it.

[1460] I mean, that's, uh, that's intense.

[1461] Well, you know what?

[1462] That was going on during the Obama administration.

[1463] That's something that people need to recognize.

[1464] True.

[1465] There's not a single fucking president that's really looking out for you.

[1466] It never has been one.

[1467] There's not one that you can really enjoy.

[1468] Every single one of them is doing some creepy shit.

[1469] And that whole thing where they were, they were cutting easements through private land.

[1470] They were arresting people on their own fucking land.

[1471] They were saying that they had the right to drill through their land.

[1472] That was during the Obama administration, started during his administration, supported by his administration, and they stopped it towards the end.

[1473] But it's almost like I kind of know that they stopped it, knowing that Trump was going to start it right the fuck back up as soon as he got in office.

[1474] I think the last few months of Obama, that's why he kicked the Russians out.

[1475] Because, you know, like, let Trump bring him back in.

[1476] Let him be the bad guy.

[1477] Yeah, and get that headline.

[1478] And he'll greenlight that pipeline.

[1479] I think Obama had some fun on the way out, knowing that Trump is, you know, first week is going to turn it all around, and everyone gets to point the finger.

[1480] That's politics, and that's why I don't love any politician, and I've never wanted to meet one.

[1481] I wouldn't walk, you know, I come from Washington, D .C. You'd see him all the time.

[1482] You know, they've got to eat somewhere.

[1483] And I've never, I wouldn't walk five blocks to go meet one.

[1484] I'd like to meet Jimmy Carter.

[1485] He's probably the only guy that I really want to meet.

[1486] I'd like to see him speak, just because, you know, I've never watched a president speak.

[1487] I think it'd be interesting.

[1488] But I just, I wouldn't mind meeting Jimmy Carter.

[1489] But I just kind of know they're all kind of cut from kind of the same bolt of cloth, just the different amounts of puke on the cloth.

[1490] Right.

[1491] So, like, if it's raining outside and they're outside, they're wet.

[1492] Yeah, because they're politicians.

[1493] As Gore Vidal said, by the time you get to the executive office, you've been bought and sold at least a dozen times.

[1494] willfully.

[1495] How do you fix that?

[1496] By being a good person, because there's so much of it you can't fix.

[1497] The only way to fix it is go local.

[1498] And like when Trump became president, I just did eight shows at Largo in L .A. And a lot of people were kind of, you know, woo.

[1499] And I said, look, when they start pushing against LGBT rights or women's reproductive health rights or freedoms, we'll neutralize.

[1500] You know, we'll be doing benefits.

[1501] We're going to, like, you know, plan parents with ACLU.

[1502] Southern Poverty Law Center, any LGBT activist group, we can get involved and start kind of neutralizing this and slowing it down.

[1503] This is not a time to be dismayed.

[1504] This is this is punk rock time.

[1505] This is what Joe Strummer trained you for.

[1506] It is now time to go.

[1507] You're a good person.

[1508] That means more now than ever.

[1509] Because as a voter, you know, it's throw your penny and throw it in the sea.

[1510] That's all a vote is.

[1511] It's just like nothing.

[1512] Like you don't even hear it fall.

[1513] But you can you can be thunderous in your own life and being cool to the eight people around you.

[1514] And that, you know, it rubs off.

[1515] It does.

[1516] It resonates.

[1517] It spreads.

[1518] And so I work locally, like, right, as far as my eyes can see, I work there.

[1519] There was an orphanage in Los Angeles I contributed money to for years.

[1520] They've kind of morphed into something else now.

[1521] But I work locally.

[1522] And if everyone did, if everyone worked like, you know, a yard in front of them, it would start looking really good.

[1523] So you don't have to change the world.

[1524] You can just change your street.

[1525] Yeah, and changing the world, what a daunting task.

[1526] But it happens when enough people change their street.

[1527] And so as a Los Angeles resident, I'd be happy to work inside the county of L .A. doing good stuff.

[1528] Whatever I can figure out to do.

[1529] You don't have to – because you're not going to push Congress around.

[1530] They seem to be loving to sit still.

[1531] So you can work locally.

[1532] And so going forward in this country, when it gets better, is when the electorate gets better.

[1533] It's what Jefferson taught you, a vigorous, educated electorate who vote.

[1534] votes and votes and votes to keep American government and democracy a transparent lens as transparent as possible.

[1535] And that's what you can do in this time.

[1536] Like, don't you're not going to move to Canada.

[1537] Like the Canadians are going to have you.

[1538] But you can be your decency now means more.

[1539] It's a more fruitful currency.

[1540] It just means more now to help that guy out.

[1541] It's a helpier help, basically.

[1542] I also feel like great things get done in times of conflict.

[1543] absolutely we have something to push back against and people organized like that woman's march you know exactly where you go wow decency is under threat i never thought about that let's go and all of a sudden your life has some definition like i like adversarial relationships i'm not looking to get into an argument with you i'm just saying like when i go on tour it's not me versus the audience it's me versus the stress and the the magnitude of the tour i've bitten off for myself and I get the fear of failing my audience, and I love that.

[1544] And I battle that fear all day.

[1545] Go to the gym, because you better put eight miles on that treadmill, because you've got a show tonight.

[1546] There's a sort of Damocles over your head.

[1547] Don't eat the pizza.

[1548] Eat that, because you've got a show tonight.

[1549] Don't screw this up.

[1550] When you decide to do like eight miles on a treadmill, how do you feel like that benefits you when you do a show?

[1551] Mental toughness.

[1552] Like I'm tired.

[1553] I'm jet lagged, and I'm going to be on stage in 40 minutes.

[1554] I'm so damn tired.

[1555] And then all that training comes in.

[1556] You're like, man, this can probably be the best.

[1557] show I've ever done.

[1558] Then you start laughing.

[1559] Like, man, I'm really tired.

[1560] This is going to be awesome.

[1561] And you go out there and crush it.

[1562] Now, when you do your shows, do you write it out in long form?

[1563] No. But, you know, I've already written, yes, I've already written out in my journal because those journals become books.

[1564] I take tons of notes.

[1565] You write long -handy type?

[1566] Both.

[1567] On my leisure days, I like to handwrite, so I just like writing.

[1568] But mainly, I don't have the time, so I got to type it up.

[1569] Lefty?

[1570] You're lefty?

[1571] I'm left -handed, yeah.

[1572] And so I've learned that you can't take too many notes.

[1573] You can't write enough.

[1574] Like, you You have to take 80 details of the last hour.

[1575] You forget it the next day because you're tired.

[1576] And so when I'm on stage, I have no notes.

[1577] And it's all in the front of my brain pan.

[1578] So if I'm going to quote the Constitution or quote a president or years that the Supreme Court did whatever, I just have to put it.

[1579] I memorize all of it.

[1580] And I just carry it around with me. And before I go on stage to center myself, I quote Lincoln from his speech, the speech to the perpetuation of our governmental institutions, I think it's called.

[1581] It's the speech of the young men's Lyceum.

[1582] It's been quoted.

[1583] Florida's first ever speeches.

[1584] He's really young.

[1585] 1838, I think it was, in early January.

[1586] And I just quote parts of it to myself and kind of get ready to go out there.

[1587] How does that help you?

[1588] It just eliminates the rest of the day.

[1589] So it's like all I have in my life is a show.

[1590] I don't care about anything else.

[1591] My whole life is tonight.

[1592] And it's just, I don't want anything else in the way.

[1593] I think it was Bjorn Borg, some elite tennis player.

[1594] He said, I read this in Sports Illustrated when I was a kid.

[1595] He said, I just basically concentrate to eliminate everything that's not the match.

[1596] I was like, that'll work.

[1597] And I was hyperactive.

[1598] It took me years to be able to really embrace that.

[1599] But when I go on stage, after a show 25 and 25 days, man, the only thing getting you through it is your love of being on stage, my love of the audience.

[1600] and I love them, like just crazy, obsessive.

[1601] And just the fact that I'm not thinking about how tired I am and how tired I'm going to be.

[1602] I just, all there is, they go and go, and I walk out there.

[1603] And I've spent the last hour eliminating the other parts of the day.

[1604] So do you have an outline of what you're going to talk about?

[1605] In my mind, yeah.

[1606] Only in your mind.

[1607] Yeah.

[1608] Yeah, sometimes I'll, at the beginning of a tour, just to kind of get back in that groove, I'll write a page of notes.

[1609] I'll talk about this, into that, into that.

[1610] And I look at it, and I kind of walk it through in my mind.

[1611] And like, okay, you basically memorize where all the furniture is in the living room so you can run through it with your eyes closed and not bump into anything.

[1612] And so when I go on stage, one thing tends to go into the next.

[1613] And I just, all of a sudden, I have a stopwatch.

[1614] I bring it on stage and put it down for the audience's benefit, not mine.

[1615] Because if I don't, if I'm not careful, the shows will go well over two hours.

[1616] And I looked down like, oh, no, these poor people, I've got to start landing this thing.

[1617] And any story takes you like 20 minutes to get it and tend to get out.

[1618] So I'm like, okay, we're taxing.

[1619] I can see the runway and I'll let them go in 15 minutes.

[1620] And I apologize.

[1621] I've kept you here for like two hours and 20 minutes.

[1622] I'm really sorry.

[1623] I swear I'll be done with you in like 10 more minutes.

[1624] But I would imagine they want you to keep going.

[1625] No, dude, more.

[1626] But I just don't want to keep them there for three hours.

[1627] I do, but I can't.

[1628] Right.

[1629] You don't want to abuse.

[1630] Well, it's one to leave them wanting.

[1631] more yeah and just you don't leave them going like that was really long i'm never coming back to this again that was like having four molars being pulled because i always tell them i'm desperate for your attention and your approval i really need you to keep showing up because without you i'm the tree that falls in the forest unwitnessed and if uh you're not here man i got no i got no i got nothing going on now when you would do like say if you do a 25 show tour if you go out for 25 is are you doing the exact same thing verbatim no no no no no no i'll have one or two big centerpiece stories.

[1632] Like on the last tour, many nights of the week, I talked about the time I had lunch with David Bowie because he had passed away last year.

[1633] And he was really, really cool to me. And it's a fun story.

[1634] And I told some Lemmy stories because Lemmy from Motorhead had died in the weeks before the tour started.

[1635] I said, well, you know, Lemmy's gone.

[1636] And my fans are very big on Lemmy and motorhead and I have a lot of stories I hung out with lemmy a lot and he's just a wonderful guy really amazing guy so I would tell some lemmy stories and those would kind of fall in and fall out and then things would happen in the world and that would come into the mix and I sometimes if something's really relevant I can connect it to something else like almost any country that falls down I've probably been there and I go well okay here's what happened in Syria today now when I was there and I can pull my afternoon and the El Hamidia Sook story out and so I have like I I was on RuPaul is a long time pal of mine He's one of my favorite humans Just a really Yeah just an amazing human being Smart funny And has had to run more than once Because he's a big A black guy in a wig I mean someone wants to beat him up And he's just one of the more Extraordinary people I've ever met And I met him at band practice in the 90s He practiced down the hall from us And we became power And so I talked about the time I was on RuPaul's drag race as a judge, which was hilarious.

[1637] But I talked about that story because I was just on his show, Rupal Drives, where he puts a microphone on you and a GoPro camera.

[1638] And he drives you around L .A. doing errands.

[1639] And he interviews you and he chops it up into content.

[1640] And so I was able to tell my being a judge on Rupal's drag race story because I could segue into the day we ran errands, the normal places I go.

[1641] because I live alone.

[1642] I'm very much a solitary type.

[1643] I made this story about how I walked into all these places.

[1644] And the only time I've ever come in with someone else is the one time I walked in with a six and a half foot tall black guy.

[1645] And everyone who knows me in all these stores goes like, oh, Henry's finally found someone.

[1646] And it was a story about perception.

[1647] Because you'd see the looks on their face like, oh, hey, Henry.

[1648] Right, I always thought so.

[1649] It was hilarious.

[1650] And RuPaul and I would leave.

[1651] these places.

[1652] We just laugh hysterically because they think we're an item.

[1653] And we eventually had lunch in West L .A. And we were recognized by everyone on the sidewalks immediately.

[1654] People taking photos.

[1655] And I said, Rupal, I think we've become a power couple.

[1656] I mean, it was, and this to me is an anecdote I would tell on stage.

[1657] And it's funny, but I'm not making up humor.

[1658] I'm telling you something that happened that was funny.

[1659] That's how I get to humor.

[1660] I basically stumble into it.

[1661] Like, whoops, I got humor on my shoe.

[1662] And it was funny, because I got email.

[1663] Like, dude, you're not going out with RuPaul.

[1664] And I would write back these really funny, ambiguous email letters back.

[1665] I'm like, well, as a new couple, we don't want external factors to determine what this thing is going to be.

[1666] So right now, we're just going with the flow.

[1667] And there's some kid in the Midwest whose head just exploded because I wrote him back.

[1668] Well, you know, we're just checking it out.

[1669] and let him post that wherever he wants I don't give a damn and so that's what informs the shows as the tour rolls out that story will be in the you know I'll do like 20 nights with that and then it falls away and it comes back like three weeks later because I tour for months at a time like it does fiscal quarters go by and you don't have an opening act you just go right on by yourself by myself yeah sometimes like in Australia they have a rule where if you know four people in your You're American band, then you four Australians have to play too.

[1670] And I like that.

[1671] And so a couple of times I've had a comedian, really good guy.

[1672] He opens for me on some of my bigger Australian shows.

[1673] He didn't do it this last time, but his name is Bruce.

[1674] And he'll go do you like 20 minutes just so we can say we did that.

[1675] And he's a great guy.

[1676] He's so hilarious.

[1677] But I work in Australian.

[1678] I bring American comedians to open for me. I don't understand that.

[1679] Well, they just have this one -to -one thing.

[1680] The Canadians have it too.

[1681] Like if you're going to play, they want a local band playing too.

[1682] So you'll usually have a Canadian opener But when I go to Canada too I bring American comedians to open for me And I've done tours where they didn't make me have An opener who is Australian And I've done tours where they did Like I just was there last year in 2016 Like for a month of shows No opener I thought it was going to be my buddy again And they said no no and says You go how am I doing that but not last time And it was explained to me and I didn't care that much So I know they have that Canadian content rule When it comes to like television right in radio i don't know as well i think canadians i think there's a certain amount of canadian content you have to have right on the radio and in television in canada but usually i'm just on my own uh like the last 156 shows there's no openers do you get lonely on the road like that no i don't have that chip i used to get lonely when i was like yeah i got lonelier i got lonely when i was young you know you had a girlfriend or something and now i'm kind of like a lizard you're like you know this lizard has had no one in its terrarium for 80 years and still keeps eating bugs yeah i'm henry rollins and i still keep eating bugs i don't get lonely at all wow i just don't have the the i have faulty wiring or something no not at all depressed that's super unusual depressed yeah sure depression uh feelings of blankness i have in combat but that's one of the reason i go to the gym that kind of blows that away music helps but lonely no uh i miss people i miss people who are dead.

[1683] I miss dead people because you can't talk to them anymore.

[1684] Like when my best friend's mom died, I miss her a lot.

[1685] But no, otherwise, I see people when I see them.

[1686] You have to remember, I'm basically, I'll be 56 in a couple of weeks.

[1687] I've been touring since I was 20.

[1688] I've been playing the away game.

[1689] That's kind of what I know, where being off the road is difficult.

[1690] I live in a nice place.

[1691] It's cool.

[1692] A lot of records, a nice stereo, it's got kind of I need.

[1693] But after three days home, I'm bored.

[1694] I'm missing the tour bus.

[1695] I wish I was back on tour.

[1696] Man, there's a lot of people like that that have that wanderlust thing.

[1697] Anthony Bourdain has that same thing going on where he can't be home for a couple weeks.

[1698] He's home for a couple weeks.

[1699] He's got to get the fuck away.

[1700] Yeah, I feel like I would like to leave.

[1701] I don't want to run out of this building now.

[1702] But if someone said, hey, you want to go to Iceland tomorrow?

[1703] I'm like, yeah, I can be packed and give me 20 minutes, man. Just keep the car on.

[1704] I'll be right out.

[1705] Yeah, and I'll go.

[1706] I'm hoping for some good location work this year.

[1707] If they said, you want to go move to the Czech Republic for a year and a half and make a, you know, a two seasons of a TV show, I'd say yes before I asked what the part was.

[1708] Really?

[1709] Yeah.

[1710] You're going to get an offer now.

[1711] I hope so.

[1712] I'll do it from the Czech Republic right now is banging on his keyboard.

[1713] Well, you know what I mean?

[1714] There's like these gigs you get.

[1715] We're like, hey, do you mind going to live in this part of the world for six weeks to make a movie?

[1716] I'm like, I'll be there in two days.

[1717] Wow.

[1718] Oh, yeah.

[1719] No, I run stuff like.

[1720] Man, I'm just totally opposite.

[1721] Well, everyone's different.

[1722] Do you have a family?

[1723] Forgive me for not knowing.

[1724] Oh, well, then that's your home.

[1725] Yeah, but even if I didn't, I just never really, before I had one, I just never really enjoyed being out that much.

[1726] I like going away and coming back.

[1727] Yeah, I get you.

[1728] And I like being home for long stretches.

[1729] I feel more productive at home.

[1730] Huh.

[1731] Yeah, for me, all the good writing, the good thinking, the good workouts, it all comes from being on the road.

[1732] I just burn cleaner.

[1733] My mood elevates.

[1734] When I'm off the road, every day I wake up in my own bed, I feel I'm kind of failing and I'm wimping out.

[1735] Really?

[1736] At home.

[1737] You're failing and wimping out at home.

[1738] Yeah.

[1739] And you know what?

[1740] I put that on me. I'm not saying anyone else is.

[1741] I wouldn't dare.

[1742] I don't get to tell people what to do.

[1743] But for me, every day I'm not out in the world, I'm like thinking I'm trying to dodge the ball instead of like deflecting it or catching it or getting hit by it.

[1744] Yeah, I'd rather be out Like the people I travel with My road manager and our merch guy We've been traveling the world together for about a decade And we all like wow We're off this bus in two days I guess I'll start packing None of us want to go Wow Yeah I mean my road manager he has a family So he's looking forward to being back with them of course But me and the merch guy man we're just you know To solo acts swinging from vine to vine And so this year I don't have any job.

[1745] I got like a few talking shows.

[1746] I'm going to keynote this cannabis thing in a couple of weeks in San Francisco.

[1747] What is that?

[1748] It's a thing for cannabis entrepreneurs.

[1749] And since I don't smoke marijuana or any cannabis product, but I'm pro -legalization and decriminalization, they want me to speak on that.

[1750] And I said, I'm in.

[1751] And so I've got a couple of gigs.

[1752] But beyond that, I've got nothing going on this year.

[1753] So I'm waiting for an audition or a meeting and someone gives me a gig.

[1754] And if I don't get any of that, Then I'm just going to pack my bags and find some jungle and some desert and go dig it.

[1755] Now, when you're writing something about cannabis and you don't use it, I mean, you obviously had a long history with drugs before you got clean.

[1756] Me?

[1757] Yeah.

[1758] Oh, no, sir.

[1759] Never.

[1760] No, I got drunk like four times in my life.

[1761] I smoked marijuana once on 7 -11 Hamilton Street in Trenton, New Jersey.

[1762] Nothing?

[1763] It was after band practice.

[1764] It was really boring, and my bandmates were smoking a joint.

[1765] I said, can I try that?

[1766] And they said, you?

[1767] I'm so bored.

[1768] I'll try it.

[1769] I hated it.

[1770] So you never really had that time in your life where you were fucking around with drugs?

[1771] I did, I tried weed once.

[1772] I had a few experiences with Mickalob in 10th grade.

[1773] I just didn't like it.

[1774] I tried LSD a handful of times, interesting, but easy to lose your mind.

[1775] Tried mushrooms a few times.

[1776] And when I did that thing at the strip bar for that TV show, it was drug stories.

[1777] And they said, do you have one?

[1778] I go, yeah, I'll talk about the time me and this girl were on acid driving her car.

[1779] damn mere got killed and so you know she was crazy she's dead now but um i told that story about being on acid and like that's probably where i got it from then oh yeah other stories well there's just like my like six acid trips so when did you just decide to go completely clean well i never really got started in my career as a drug addict i mean but not even an i'm not even saying an addict i'm saying someone who uses it oh no no it never i i i'm wired to such in such a way that any stimulant is kind of a depressant like beer and the times i was i drank i just you know four beers i'd throw up on my shoes i wasn't good at it i didn't enjoy it i just did because i wanted to hang out with the gang like my my dumb ass friends at school and i didn't like it it just i didn't like the dizziness and it i didn't make me happy just made me stupid the time i smoked marijuana i just sat there waiting for it to be over i sat trying to figure out how to pick up a glass of water is sitting on it.

[1780] I'm like, how do I do that?

[1781] And all my, my bandmates are experienced stones.

[1782] They're like, you do that, Henry.

[1783] I'm like, thank you.

[1784] I couldn't understand picking up a glass of water.

[1785] Well, you went too deep.

[1786] Well, I just said, how long does this last for?

[1787] They said, about 20, 30 minutes.

[1788] I said, okay, and I just sat and stared at my watch and waited it out.

[1789] Acid was interesting.

[1790] Were you like, wow, I could lose my mind, so I just better like concentrate so it doesn't run out of my skull.

[1791] Mushrooms were fun.

[1792] You laugh, your ass off.

[1793] three hours and that wasn't so bad but I just didn't see anything to pursue I tried it it was the same thing every time and that's kind of my entire history with drug use that was it like okay caffeine right well yeah but this I would drink like I'm that's a small cup of coffee this will last me believe it or not all day one cup I drink a cup a day I make a cup of coffee and I just sip it so what I'm thinking is that I'm With caffeine, like an antidepressant, and I use it as an IV drip, because I never drink cups of coffee.

[1794] I drink one.

[1795] So you just start off hot, and by the end of the day, it's just this cold, nasty.

[1796] Yeah, but I sip it, and I think it's like just a drip IV of caffeine, and it must be, because I always have a cup of coffee with me, and it's always half full.

[1797] Like on the weekends, I don't, on the weekends, if I'm off the road, I go to coffee places and sit and write for hours and work on book manuscripts, and I'll buy the small coffee like this one.

[1798] and three and a half hours later I'll leave and I just drop it in the trash because it's still about three quarters full so I don't drink a lot of coffee in the winter time I'll drink a cup of tea in the morning and have a part of a cup of coffee I'll drink all of the tea what makes what fuels you to be so prolific you know you're saying you write an article a month for the LA Weekly's I would just say a week a thousand words a week yeah which is not easy that you write for Rolling Stone Australia once a month and then I write I try and write a thousand words a day for myself and I have right now five different books in various states of completion and that's not some college guys saying my manuscript these are they're done and I'm by day I edit I'm editing the next journal book travel book and then at night I'm writing another journal book and working on one of two different music books I do a series of music books called fanatic where I you know rare records and labels like music geek stuff and so I work on those at night.

[1799] And you also host a radio show.

[1800] And I have the weekly radio show.

[1801] I just filled in, oh, tomorrow in England, BBC Radio 6, I'm filling in for Iggy Pop.

[1802] He took a vacation from his show.

[1803] So I filled in for him last week and this week as well.

[1804] So I did those shows.

[1805] So I'm always busy.

[1806] And so stimulants would get in my way.

[1807] What powers me, it's not money, it's not ambition, it's anger.

[1808] I'm one of those people.

[1809] I wish there was a better way to say.

[1810] it but it's it's vengeance you laughed at me in high school man you said i was going to be anything really like watch this like that's still pushing you at 56 i hate to say it oh yeah 40 40 years later oh yeah all of it like you know my dad you know he was a big money guy i'm like okay you love money so much watch me outgross you in your whole damn family to combined and i don't i don't even care about i just like achieving it and And it's one of the reasons when the agent goes, okay, five shows on, one off.

[1811] I'm like, oh, no, no, no, that's a day off.

[1812] You put a show in there.

[1813] Like, why?

[1814] Because, like, screw that, man. Watch me. Put two shows on that night.

[1815] What you think I can't?

[1816] I'm just, like I said, I set up adversarial relationships.

[1817] I'm not against you or anything.

[1818] I'm just saying, I have to have something to push against.

[1819] Like a schedule that is like, the schedule is like Godzilla.

[1820] Like, you can't finish this.

[1821] Like, really?

[1822] man, I'm going to serve you up and eat you every day like a steak.

[1823] And I just have to have that.

[1824] And so I'm getting back.

[1825] And it's, I think, of all the people I was in bands with, I have to crush them.

[1826] Everyone I grew up with, I have to powderize them.

[1827] That's such a weird motivation.

[1828] It sucks.

[1829] It's immature.

[1830] It's like it's 11 -year -old sandbox.

[1831] Wow.

[1832] But you're aware of it.

[1833] Yeah.

[1834] Which makes it even stranger because it's not something that you're just operating under, you know, you have it's controlling you.

[1835] and you don't understand it.

[1836] No, I quite enjoy it.

[1837] Yeah, so you use it.

[1838] Yeah.

[1839] Like, if I, you know, I'm not an actor, but I go up for acting parts.

[1840] I'm, like, basically going in there and winging it.

[1841] And I get, you know, I get to go up for, like, really big parts.

[1842] There's a little bit of trepidation, knowing I'm going in there.

[1843] But then I think, like, oh, yeah, Sony.

[1844] Whatever, man. Line it up.

[1845] And I almost, like, run out of my car.

[1846] Like, you know, where are you at, man?

[1847] And I'm not trying to impress you.

[1848] I'm a tough guy, because I'm not.

[1849] I just need to, it just needs to be trying to tell me. I can't.

[1850] And that informs everything I do, like instead of just dialing my radio show in, I work on that sucker for like five hours.

[1851] It has to be all handpicked, no, that song, not that one, this one.

[1852] And I make like three drafts of it.

[1853] It's intense.

[1854] It's one of the reasons why I live alone.

[1855] It's like, I work all the time.

[1856] Like, hey, come out on this weekend.

[1857] No, it's 7 p .m. on a Friday.

[1858] I'm working.

[1859] Like, I'm not fun.

[1860] Constant.

[1861] Yeah.

[1862] Wow.

[1863] I'm not fun to hang out with.

[1864] Do you vacation?

[1865] ever, where you just chill?

[1866] No, I can't intellectually and existentially, I can't understand the idea of a vacation.

[1867] I make a joke on stage.

[1868] I say, I want to come back 10 pounds lighter with an internal parasite.

[1869] I want to come back with like a scar where the spear kind of grazed me and eight great stories and a dangerous insect in my bag.

[1870] I don't want to sit on the beach and soak in the rays.

[1871] I want to get sunburned by, you know, being in the desert and, like, you know, figuring out how the sun won't try and kill me by noon.

[1872] That's the Sahara.

[1873] And so that's how I go about it.

[1874] So part of your motivation is actually the perception by other people of what you're doing.

[1875] Like understanding that what you're doing is so undeniable.

[1876] The volume that you're putting out.

[1877] And the intensity.

[1878] Yeah, the intensity.

[1879] So undeniable.

[1880] Like, I'll show you motherfuckers.

[1881] Yeah, absolutely.

[1882] Wow.

[1883] That's so weird.

[1884] Even with people who like me. Like, yay, Henry's here.

[1885] I'm like, yeah, I'm here.

[1886] Check it out, bitch.

[1887] Check this out.

[1888] Yeah.

[1889] Here's a place you won't go.

[1890] And It's not that I have any aggression towards these people.

[1891] I just want to burn brightly.

[1892] And it's not about money.

[1893] It's not about I'm better than you because I don't think I'm better than anybody.

[1894] I just want to explode as much as possible.

[1895] And I think to my audience, it's to their benefit.

[1896] He's like, that dude's going to go out there to a place I don't want to go.

[1897] He's going to come back with 10 great photos.

[1898] And a story about how he nearly lost his foot.

[1899] It's great.

[1900] And like, put me in coach.

[1901] That's the game I want to play.

[1902] That's what I go for.

[1903] for.

[1904] And I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to, like in the high school, I was like, you know, the wise -ass kid who had awful grades.

[1905] I was on Ritalin.

[1906] I was a mess.

[1907] You're on Ritalin in high school?

[1908] I was on Ritalin since like right out of preschool.

[1909] Oh, shit.

[1910] If you look at the early government documentation on Ritalin, this is not a joke.

[1911] Oh, there's these big books.

[1912] My mom had them.

[1913] There's photos of me. They tried Ritalin out.

[1914] I was a part of a test group.

[1915] Holy shit.

[1916] We would get little orange tablets.

[1917] And then we'd get little orange tablets.

[1918] And then we'd get little yellow tablets and we have triangular orange tablets for a while and my i went to a place called the national research center and i was a hyperactive kid and they said uh here we're trying this stuff out my mom had me on riddlin from like uh preschool all the way to 12th grade holy shit and in the summertime summer vacation i wouldn't take it and within a day of that stuff kicking itself out of your system man your appetite comes back and in ninth or 10th grade I started weightlifting and I started like throwing the pills out because it's it's an appetite speed and so it suppresses your appetite and so I'm going through puberty my hormones are raging and I stopped using the tablet and all of a sudden I'm that guy at lunch for like the the the line of milk on the outer edge of the tray because I'm eating like you know tons of food I'm a locust because I'm going to the gym and I'm just getting really my frustration is now being informed by a physicality that I'm getting by lifting weights so all of a sudden I'm putting muscle on and I'm angry at the world and I'm a spas and so by 12th grade I was kind of a maniac and then I got into punk rock and you know just got got into that slug fest and just kind of went into the world just kind of wildly swinging away.

[1919] Why did they put you on Ritalin at such a young age?

[1920] Because it's what they were doing in America with a lot of young people who talk too much or, you know, had bad social skills.

[1921] Well, I had attention deficit and I couldn't concentrate and I got thrown out of the D .C. public school system for being, you know, he's yelling, he's doing this.

[1922] And I actually read a couple of teachers' reports about me years later.

[1923] And I said, I had no memory.

[1924] I said, I did all that.

[1925] My mom went, yeah, that's why they kicked you out.

[1926] They kicked you out of school.

[1927] Wow.

[1928] Yeah.

[1929] And I got kicked out of a few schools until they put me in a prep school where the advertising is like, oh, your kid has problems with studying?

[1930] We'll cool them out.

[1931] And the first few days of school, some kids spoke out of class, and I watched this one teacher pick this one kid up and just kind of toss him into a blackboard.

[1932] I went, right, in his class, you shut up.

[1933] And so I didn't want to get, you know, a thrashing by a teacher, so I was always really careful.

[1934] But having that difficulty sitting down, and I was fine with topics I liked.

[1935] I didn't groove on math or any of that.

[1936] But at lunchtime, I'd go to the library and start memorizing the Latin nomenclature of every North American snake.

[1937] I had to learn them all.

[1938] And by, like, 10th grade, I had.

[1939] And I have most of it still in my head.

[1940] I'm always very confused at these medical distinctions, whether it's ADHD or hyperactive or ADD, whatever the first.

[1941] fuck it is like is is that real or do people just do some people just have a different composition a different passion inside of them and they resist doing things they don't want to do and they don't want to be a part of any structured school curriculum i think all of it but yeah and is that a disease or is that or do you just have more fucking look at right now you don't have any pills you're not on anything and yet you have all this passion for life you have all this isn't that the same shit that you had when you were six yeah it just it was undisciplined and unfocused Right, but that's not a disease, right?

[1942] I don't know.

[1943] I mean, I wouldn't call it a disease.

[1944] I think it's just wiring.

[1945] Right, but why the fuck is it named?

[1946] Why is it ADHD?

[1947] So they can sell you a pill.

[1948] I know, but isn't that crazy?

[1949] Well, yeah.

[1950] When you look back at your own life, the fact that you were on that shit for, I mean, what?

[1951] How many?

[1952] A lot of years.

[1953] Eight years, nine years?

[1954] Yeah, and it really screws with you because you can feel it when you take the pill.

[1955] You can, you're basically, you're a propeller that spins so fast.

[1956] It looks like they're like a spokes of a wheel, like the, wheel is still, but it's actually going really fast, that's how it felt.

[1957] Like on the outside, I'm like this pale, skinny, like, but inside, I'm like the last few minutes of Dave in 2001, where he's going through the space time continuum, and everything is flying by.

[1958] That was like 10th grade for me, where I just kind of held onto my desk and fairly flew through classes, like, not being able to retain much because I was just speeding my brains out.

[1959] And then the pill would wear off around dinner and all of a sudden you're like eating two meals.

[1960] And the next morning you take the pill and you don't eat again for hours.

[1961] That is fucking crazy.

[1962] It was it was nuts.

[1963] It scares the shit out of me too because my parents didn't put me on anything like that.

[1964] But I know I would have.

[1965] I know I would have been diagnosed.

[1966] I know I would have been put on something if I had the wrong parents.

[1967] Yeah, they put me on.

[1968] My mom put me on this stuff probably because my doctor said, you know, hey, Iris, this helps.

[1969] a lot of kids, but I was in these classes, and I'll never forget one day I'm going through my mom's books.

[1970] There's this big honking, hardcover book, and I opened it up, and I saw these, like, a contact sheet of me. I'm like, wait a minute, that's that place.

[1971] And then I saw the camera angle, and I realized there were these mirrors on the wall.

[1972] They're observation rooms.

[1973] Wow.

[1974] And I'll never forget one day, I'm looking at that mirror, and a door opened from the side, And my mom walked out.

[1975] And we were being observed.

[1976] And the camera angle was from that observation room.

[1977] And there's me playing with like blocks and stuff.

[1978] I'm like, I remember that sweater.

[1979] Oh, man, I'm like four.

[1980] And that was part of that research group.

[1981] Wow.

[1982] And maybe because my mom was a government employee.

[1983] I don't know.

[1984] But I was, I went to a place called it, like for two years, called the National Research Center.

[1985] I got thrown out of there.

[1986] Wow.

[1987] For wounding a kid.

[1988] What'd you do to it?

[1989] them.

[1990] Through a bunch of powdered cement in his face.

[1991] Yeah.

[1992] Now, when you started lifting weights when you were in 12th grade and you stopped.

[1993] More like a ninth or 10th or 10th?

[1994] Yeah, early teens.

[1995] When you stopped taking the pills.

[1996] Did you feel like the exercise did for you what the pills were kind of supposed to do for you?

[1997] The weight lifting, you know, I had a, this, this coach, he's mentioned in that article that you were talking about the iron.

[1998] I talked about Mr. Pepperman.

[1999] And I was in his carpool.

[2000] He was a Vietnam vet.

[2001] And he once said to me, I have to quote, he said, you're a skinny little faggot.

[2002] Gee, thank you, sir.

[2003] And he said, I'm going to teach you how to lift weights.

[2004] I said, okay, it's more attention than my dad gave me. So I said, I'll take it.

[2005] And so he taught me compound lifts at the school gym.

[2006] So I bought a Sears and Robux Sandfield Weight Set, which I couldn't drag to my mom's station, VW, fastback.

[2007] And eventually I did, by three months of that weight, so I'm fairly throwing it across the room.

[2008] Because, you know, you're growing so fast.

[2009] Like your muscles are recovering overnight.

[2010] You just do the same workout every day.

[2011] You don't even feel it.

[2012] And he said, you're not allowed to look at yourself until Christmas break after Christmas exams.

[2013] And this was like in September.

[2014] So I didn't.

[2015] I did everything he told me to.

[2016] And then he dropped me off before the Christmas break.

[2017] He said, now today you can look at yourself in the mirror.

[2018] And I ran home, like ran home.

[2019] And I tore my stupid school uniform off and I stood in the mirror and my body had definition.

[2020] I'm like, wow, those are pecks.

[2021] I mean, like, I looked like I was a guy who lifted some weights.

[2022] And it was self -validating.

[2023] Like, wow, I'm here.

[2024] I did that.

[2025] I'm looking at myself going, I did that.

[2026] No one can lift those weights for you.

[2027] And the feeling of achievement it gave me that I accomplished that was a shot in the arm that I still feel to this day.

[2028] Wow.

[2029] I mean, because it was so like, wow, you can do this.

[2030] That's possible.

[2031] Right.

[2032] Because every other time, I'm trying to meet girls at the school dance.

[2033] I had no guts to talk to the girls, so they were alien creatures.

[2034] I didn't do well in school so you could make fun of me. I couldn't throw the ball straight, so they would throw it at my head to watch me run.

[2035] And so I didn't have any traction anywhere.

[2036] And then when I had the weights, I'm like, wow, I'm filling out my t -shirt, man. Notable improvement.

[2037] Hell yeah, man. Work plus effort, equal.

[2038] results.

[2039] Yeah, and I couldn't, didn't make my grades better, because I still, you know, it was all of Swahili to me. It was just obtuse to me. It was probably too late.

[2040] I just, yeah, I was not good at sitting still.

[2041] But when I had the summer jobs, that's when I kicked ass.

[2042] I never had an allowance.

[2043] I never, my mom never said, here's 20 bucks.

[2044] I'm like, where'd Henry go?

[2045] He's got three jobs over the weekend.

[2046] I'd wake up in the morning, go to the pet shop, work all day there, run home, shower, change my clothes, do the night shift at the movie.

[2047] theater, take the bus out to the surf shop in the suburbs and repair skateboards and whatever on Sundays.

[2048] So I always had pocket money because I liked having working a cash register on my keychain in school.

[2049] I had the keys to stores.

[2050] Bosses trusted me because I never steal.

[2051] And I, so I would work like 20 hours a week and go to school in high school.

[2052] And part of that was informed by the weightlifting and I like getting out of the house and being responsible but in school it didn't mean much to me but showing up on time at the pet shop and cleaning out 20 cat pans man that was like I had to be there at 8 o 'clock not 801 man because we got things to do I felt a real fealty and to this day like if I'm ever on a film shoot like who's the guy who's there early man that's me I'm there I memorize the whole damn script I'm so happy to have a job I'm like amazed anyone cares and so So all of that, it keeps me on the straight and narrow.

[2053] I call myself a human frozen yogurt machine, just output.

[2054] You know, I don't want the applause.

[2055] I like to build chips.

[2056] I don't want to sail in them.

[2057] And the best part about finishing the ship is it sails off to sea and you can build another.

[2058] So I love finishing a book.

[2059] You know, get this thing off my desktop.

[2060] Now I can start a new one.

[2061] Like, where can I go now?

[2062] And so that's how I live to achieve and to output.

[2063] but it's not I don't ever look at I have a thing on my computer it's called the list and I keep a list of like every show every book I've written every movie I've been in every album I've ever made and when you look at it it's intense it's like you keep a list of every show you've ever done oh hell yeah of course wow of course I don't know anybody does that yeah and sometimes I write down the set length I take a lot of notes oh yeah I write them all down but I have this one thing called the list and it's just like you know every film every TV show every voiceover um every book every record on on and on and sometimes I look at it just because I have to input like the new book comes out I have to go to the thing and input and I look at this list and my bones start aching I'm like man this is a lot of there's a lot of shit a lot of crap this came out yeah and I don't wave it around I go see what I've done I just kind of go I'm only interested in what I'm doing what I'm doing next so why do you record it then why do you write all that stuff down.

[2064] I like leaving a good trail of evidence.

[2065] And I like to be able to, uh, when someone will say, um, I saw you in 1985 in Champaign, Illinois.

[2066] I'm like, no, that would be 1983 or 1986.

[2067] We didn't play there in 1985.

[2068] How do you know that?

[2069] Here, it's right there.

[2070] See?

[2071] And they're like, whoa.

[2072] Yeah.

[2073] You got a fucking list from 1983?

[2074] Oh, I have every show since, uh, I was in Washington, D .C. with my, with my first band.

[2075] So you've, you've written down every single show you've done in your life.

[2076] You should publish that.

[2077] Well, it's in, you know, my journal books of the years I was in Black Flag, that came out as a book.

[2078] I did a, but I mean, you should just publish that list.

[2079] You should put it up online or something, just so people could look at it.

[2080] Yeah, I have a lot of, there's a lot of those kind of things.

[2081] You really should just so people could feel lazy, just to look at that and go, what in the fuck?

[2082] Because sometimes, you know, something like that will change the way a person looks at the world.

[2083] To know that someone like Henry Rollins is out there recording every single show.

[2084] show and here's all here's all like you get this feeling like I'm getting this feeling when I'm talking to you like I want to go do something for real I want to get out of this interview no no no I love this interview I want to fucking accomplish something like this is this is something when I talk to people that are really motivated and really passionate it gets me fired up and I'm so I'm listening to you talk about this stuff and I want to go do something yeah that that's all you get to do in life you get to do stuff and then you die you know it's over and it's over fast enough anyway so for me I don't tell people what to do this is a very compelling and attractive attitude you have though it's very very interesting yeah it keeps me going and it never gets I never get to that point where I've been to enough places or I've written enough books or I've done enough radio shows or I bought enough records there's never enough records there's never enough time to do everything and I like living with that kind of aspect of desperation we are always kind of like oh come on man let's go and i like that because it keeps the as i say it keeps the blood thin and it keeps complacency at the door i have my bad days i'm like anyone else i'm just a you know yeah but your bad days are probably ridiculous you're burning so hot i mean your bad days are probably like an average ambitious person's you know quality time i don't know i mean i don't know man it's pretty intense but it's one of the reasons why i i i pick the people I work with like today you met Heidi who manages not only me but all my companies and she's basically she's she and I've been working together for damn near 20 years she's amazing and she's air traffic control because if I'm not I'm never careful I say yes to every damn thing and she's like you can't say yes to that because you're going to be over here on this day she goes like stop answering the phone I got this so she like she's the one who coordinated all this with you right um because I you know I'm not I'll go and do it, but I'm not good at setting it up.

[2085] And so she locks in the coordinates.

[2086] And so I work with people who are used to kind of my velocity, like the road manager.

[2087] In a way, I'm very easy on road manager words.

[2088] I wake up, I go to the front of the bus, and he's already written out the map for me to walk to a gym.

[2089] So I wake up, I go right to the gym.

[2090] And I always want the same thing.

[2091] I want a gym.

[2092] I want this.

[2093] I want a gig, and then I want some sushi, and I want to go to sleep.

[2094] And so, but it's intense and there's hardly any days off.

[2095] So he knows how to keep all of that going.

[2096] And the phone is ringing because I work in different media all the time.

[2097] And so Heidi's always juggling eight chainsaws.

[2098] And so I'm around people who can allow me just to really run at it and go as fast and as hard as I want to.

[2099] I call it living at the speed of life.

[2100] You just kind of go, you let your imagination and your result.

[2101] dictate everything and to be able to do that and still keep the lights on I'm just a lucky bastard and so I try and be really cool about it so I well this humility is very contagious too it's very nice it's very nice to hear that you have this attitude in our line of work I don't know everything about you but you know you and I do enough of the same stuff come on man we get in free to stuff all the time doors open stuff that other people pay for They just give you two of them, man, because they just like the fact that you came by.

[2102] Yeah.

[2103] And so the only way not to be a jerk with all of that is to don't take it too seriously and to be as grateful as possible.

[2104] And that's what we were several minutes ago.

[2105] I said I've met, you know, some big movie stars and rock star types.

[2106] The bigger they are, the more grateful they are because they know they are just lucky bastards.

[2107] And all like the, you know, your ACD season, Seas and Black Sabbaths that I've met, they're like the most humble.

[2108] You know, they're just so happy they got a gig, and it's going pretty well.

[2109] Yeah.

[2110] And they just know that they beat the grind.

[2111] They obviously had something to bear.

[2112] They had something that the world says wow about.

[2113] But they also at the same time know that they're not going to take the same caning that a lot of really good people who don't deserve it are going to take.

[2114] That's what Bukowski wrote about.

[2115] He said, man, you've got to beat the grind because, man, this life will kill you.

[2116] It'll just use you up.

[2117] And so I'm not looking to escape any.

[2118] But to have an idea and get to do it and turn it into something that kind of pays me like I can go into the world.

[2119] Have these crazy things happen come back with photographs and a story take it on stage and I can tour on that and people show up.

[2120] Damn, man, I should just be saying thank you every other breath and that that's what I try and maintain.

[2121] You're obviously very prolific.

[2122] What do you do with all your money?

[2123] You seem like a guy who probably wears those kind of clothes every day all the time.

[2124] You probably live in an apartment.

[2125] I got a 20 of these.

[2126] Do you live in an apartment?

[2127] No, I got a house.

[2128] Do you have a house?

[2129] Yeah.

[2130] I have a lot of records, so you need some room.

[2131] I spend money on records, plane tickets, and the occasional lens for a camera.

[2132] You know, but by and large...

[2133] That doesn't cost a lot.

[2134] No. I drive a Mazda 6.

[2135] What?

[2136] Yeah.

[2137] Do you do that on purpose?

[2138] I live in L .A., man. Do you fly economy?

[2139] You one of those motherfuckers?

[2140] Yeah.

[2141] Son of a bitch.

[2142] I have over a million miles on you.

[2143] United.

[2144] I bet you do.

[2145] I'm probably trying to upgrade.

[2146] You're like, no, no, no, no. I'll take the aisle seat.

[2147] No, I save them up for when I go on tour.

[2148] Like last year, I was in Australia twice.

[2149] And so that's where I use the miles.

[2150] You fly to Australia economy.

[2151] Well, no, I upgraded into business because I had already saved up the miles.

[2152] But usually I fly economy, yeah.

[2153] Why do you do that?

[2154] Because I will not justify spending $2 ,000 for more leg room for seven hours because you can buy like a truckload of records of that money.

[2155] Right, but you already have that $2 ,000 in the bank.

[2156] It's not like you need that $2 ,000.

[2157] I was really broke ass in a band for many years, and all the money I made, it came with a lot of sweat and a lot of pain, and I must respect it.

[2158] And I'm not saying to put yourself in business classes being disrespectful to money, what I'm saying is I can't justify it.

[2159] I simply cannot go.

[2160] That was worth it.

[2161] I can't do it.

[2162] I just can't.

[2163] How many records do you think?

[2164] think you have.

[2165] I don't know.

[2166] It's like tribles, man. They just keep showing up.

[2167] Wow.

[2168] I, last night I listened to 10 records, five LPs and five singles.

[2169] And when you sit down and listen to records, is this a solitary pursuit?

[2170] Like, just headphones on?

[2171] Oh, no, no. No, I'm in front of a pair of Wilson XLF, Sophia 3s.

[2172] Yeah.

[2173] What is that?

[2174] They're like, they're like six.

[2175] He's a, he's an audio engineer.

[2176] He just started typing as soon as you said that.

[2177] Yeah, you type him in and your laptop will go, oh, damn.

[2178] Um, they're, they're, it's a good system.

[2179] But it's the one thing I miss when I'm on the road is my music, just easy access to analog.

[2180] And so when I'm off the road, I have a file in my computer called I heard that.

[2181] And I write down every record I listen to in the order I listen to it, the exact pressing.

[2182] Like last night I listened to a David Bowie single, Golden Years with Can You Hear Me, but it was the pressing from El Salvador.

[2183] And I had to write that down.

[2184] What the fuck, dude?

[2185] Because I'm that guy.

[2186] Do you have a picture of the Wilson?

[2187] Alexandria threes.

[2188] So when you're sitting down and you're enjoying this music, you're just sitting down and enjoying this music.

[2189] You're not doing this.

[2190] Oh, wow, those are badass.

[2191] Oh, no, no, no, no. A few models up, my friend.

[2192] I've got those, too.

[2193] Those are, those are Sophia's.

[2194] Go to Alexandria.

[2195] There you go.

[2196] Yeah, they're so big, it takes a while to buffer.

[2197] Whoa.

[2198] Yeah, there's 660 pounds each.

[2199] What?

[2200] Yeah.

[2201] These are in your living room?

[2202] Yeah.

[2203] Holy shit, dude.

[2204] Now, what is the benefit of these?

[2205] Oh, they sound good.

[2206] Every frequency is realized without even pushing the system.

[2207] It's a system you don't play loud.

[2208] You can play it at medium, and it's full saturation of frequency.

[2209] What the fuck?

[2210] Look at these goddamn things.

[2211] Yeah, mine are silver.

[2212] Why is this website so shit?

[2213] It's not our internet service as fast as fuck.

[2214] Yeah, it's...

[2215] I just get a shitty...

[2216] They don't give a fuck about the web.

[2217] These are probably some weirdos just like him.

[2218] Because they're just meticulous builders.

[2219] Yeah, I guess.

[2220] And it takes a while.

[2221] Look at those speakers.

[2222] That's insane.

[2223] It's a stack.

[2224] So you have two stacks and you just face them towards you and you sit on your couch?

[2225] Yeah.

[2226] Yeah.

[2227] And then I'm looking at those.

[2228] Wow.

[2229] That is a maniac's stereo system right there.

[2230] Okay.

[2231] So you...

[2232] And so that's what I miss when I'm on the road are those two.

[2233] And when I come home, I play a lot of records.

[2234] And so last night to listen to all that music, it took about four hours or so to get through all that music.

[2235] you're just sitting there taking in the songs i'm writing you're writing yeah i'm taking notes on things and i'm working uh writing in my journal and uh just writing and listening i got a a cup of coffee and uh cold cup of coffee yeah it's from i made it uh the night before actually and uh and so i'm drinking the the lower the second half of this cold stale coffee Jesus Christ and uh half a glass of uh perier water i like that lime bubbly water and And that's my big kick -ass night.

[2236] Like this weekend, a band called Sleep is opening for the Melvins, and they're playing two nights at the Fonda.

[2237] So I'm going to both nights because I love both bands.

[2238] And so if there's a gig in town, I'm going.

[2239] If they're playing two nights, I go both nights.

[2240] So you're still deeply involved in music, and as far as you're being a fan and you appreciate it.

[2241] But you just don't have the desire to perform anymore.

[2242] No, I came into music being a fan, and I will always be.

[2243] I'll always be a fan.

[2244] It's a drag when you meet a musician who's not a fan of music.

[2245] Like, oh, come on, man. Like, no, one's like, oh, these bands all suck.

[2246] I really don't.

[2247] I feel the same way about comedians that aren't a fan of stand -up.

[2248] I love stand -up.

[2249] It still love stand -up.

[2250] And I think that's something that people lose somewhere along the line sometimes.

[2251] Some of them do.

[2252] It's really sad when they do.

[2253] I go to gigs all the time.

[2254] It's funny, but it's also sad.

[2255] A lot of times these bands write me because I play them on my radio.

[2256] show hey man we're coming to the echo next week we're going on 1130 i'm like it's a tuesday man i can't i can't go see you at 1130 at night why's that i'm just too damn i am really my age because you say 1130 on a tuesday just start a gig i'm like i'm sorry daddy just got really tired and i just have to go sorry man you know i i can't do that and be at my office the next day wow i want to uh if it was a friday yeah or christmas break but um i'll i'll go go, I'll be at the Fonda both nights this weekend, seeing those bands.

[2257] So when you say, if it's a Friday, so on weekends, do you have, like, a relaxed schedule on Saturday and Sunday?

[2258] Do you allow yourself some leisure?

[2259] I'll sleep as long as I want, and I listen to different records.

[2260] During the week, I listen, I do protein listening, which is records I haven't heard yet.

[2261] And so just, you know, you have to really concentrate.

[2262] And on the weekends, I do carbohydrate listening, whereas records that I'm familiar with that I just like to listen to.

[2263] Wow.

[2264] So just like a sort of a light thing.

[2265] Well, just like songs, you know, albums I've had for 25 years that I still like to listen to.

[2266] And that's like, you know, chili and soup and bread and potatoes.

[2267] And then during the week it's shishimi and clap push -ups.

[2268] You know.

[2269] What a strange life you have, man. Yeah, yeah.

[2270] It's very original.

[2271] I'll tell you that.

[2272] It's different.

[2273] Yeah.

[2274] If you're, you know, be weird, live weird, you know.

[2275] Weird is as weird does, I guess.

[2276] Well, you get involved in relationships.

[2277] If you get a girlfriend or something like that and they realize like what they're getting involved with they're like oh Jesus Christ well it's more what I'm getting involved with and I realize I can't hack it because here's the awful thing about being an adult in a relationship seeking to be an adult in a relationship I have found when I was young and I was a boy and I was dating girls it's boys and girls and she's an idiot you're an idiot you do dumb things and everyone cheats and whatever then you hit a certain part of your life where she's a woman and you're a man and you have adult expectations And you can't be running around being an idiot with someone who kind of wants you to be at the table because they are sincerely giving time of their adult life to this thing that you were doing together.

[2278] And when you come in still thinking you're in ninth grade and she's coming in like this is part of what my life is being with you, I have never been able to answer that in a mature enough way to where.

[2279] I would have been able to maintain it because like say next weekend if I had a girlfriend she might say it's Friday what are we doing I'm like oh watching me right for four hours and so that's not the way to be you can't do that so I can't be a good person's other half because I'm always the work has always attracted me more than coming home to someone wow like I can't stand the idea of someone of living with a person.

[2280] I can do it on the bus because it's Das Boat and we're like, you know, going down the road.

[2281] But I never would want to, like, wake up and she's there.

[2282] And I have no, no aversion.

[2283] It's a fucking expression that you just made when you, like, looked you right.

[2284] She's there.

[2285] Well, it's every day, here we are together.

[2286] And I'm just not wired that way.

[2287] Right.

[2288] I would be a drag.

[2289] Like, you haven't spoken to me in 20 hours.

[2290] huh i didn't notice and i'm just uh work oriented and so and i i'm not interested in wasting anyone's time i'm not interested in being mean i'm really not into it and so i'm not the this woman was hitting on me a while ago and i said ma 'am i call her ma 'am that's a problem well she was very persistent and i i said ma 'am i'm like a hunting dog i'm a dog just not the kind pat you know i'm just not i'm just i'm sorry uh just you should stop right she's imagining holding your hand coming to your spoken word shows going going to dinner with you yeah and talking about your day and um and you're like in front of your fucking crazy speakers and you're writing and yeah hoping the phone doesn't ring right uh i unplug it on the weekends except on sunday my best friend since i was 11 12 and he was 11 we're still best friends Ian, you ever heard of the band Fugazi?

[2291] Yes.

[2292] Okay, well, Ian Mackay, he's my best friend.

[2293] And we grew up together doing music and everything.

[2294] And we talk almost every Sunday.

[2295] And so we've been best friends since the Carter administration.

[2296] Wow.

[2297] And so Ian will call on Sunday.

[2298] We'll talk for a while.

[2299] Otherwise, the phone doesn't ring.

[2300] If it does, I'm like, oh, no, why?

[2301] I thought you liked me. Why are you calling?

[2302] And so.

[2303] I thought you liked me. Why are you calling?

[2304] Yeah.

[2305] If you liked me, you wouldn't write me. But meanwhile, I'm contentedly just working away.

[2306] And so I'm good for, I'm like a racehorse.

[2307] Just watch me run around the track, but don't need to feed me any oats.

[2308] You're very rigid in your behavior pattern.

[2309] You mean, you've got it locked in.

[2310] You know what you enjoy.

[2311] You know what makes you content.

[2312] What gives you happiness and appreciation.

[2313] Yeah.

[2314] Yeah.

[2315] And it's kind of a replicant Vulcan.

[2316] You know, it doesn't, humans don't play a large part in it.

[2317] Like, I don't need to go hang out with my friends on the weekend and, hey, man, you didn't call, man, what's going on?

[2318] Don't, don't call.

[2319] But you do appreciate those humans that come to see your perform and you feel a deep obligation to them.

[2320] Absolutely.

[2321] Yeah.

[2322] And I serve them.

[2323] And I love, I like servitude.

[2324] I like wanting to give them something good.

[2325] I make the best hash I possibly can and then I sling it with everything I've done.

[2326] got i just don't want to hang around afterwards and talk about it it's like to do it if i if i could just say thank you good night walk out of the building into a moving vehicle and be 10 blocks down the road before they get up out of their seats that would be fine it's just i i don't know what else there is to do except hit it and then quit it and so it makes some interactions a little uncomfortable and that i like these people right a lot they have no idea how much I just want to just rock their world with like a book or show.

[2327] But beyond that, I, hey, come and hang out with us.

[2328] I don't know how to do that.

[2329] But you do get appreciation from hanging out with people that you meet when you go on your journeys.

[2330] Sure.

[2331] You meet someone on the road, like some guy in his village.

[2332] You know, all right.

[2333] So, man, what's your day like?

[2334] You know, what are you eating?

[2335] Okay.

[2336] Where you get your water from?

[2337] Show me that.

[2338] And do you differentiate that because they're so unusual and their life is so?

[2339] It's information extraction.

[2340] You're just, you don't really know that person and they're not, it's just a different relationship.

[2341] But you don't feel that connection to someone that you meet in real life in America.

[2342] I meet them and I'm polite.

[2343] It's just that some people want to like hang out and be your friend all the time.

[2344] I just don't understand it.

[2345] You get the same expression that she's there.

[2346] I just, and I'm not trying to be a joke.

[2347] jerk.

[2348] I understand.

[2349] It just doesn't compute.

[2350] And so instead of like, hey, we're all going to go down to the park, come with us, like, well, how about I just make you a really good book?

[2351] And I'll price it as cheaply as I can.

[2352] Wow.

[2353] And we'll just let that be okay.

[2354] Wow.

[2355] How about I'll just email you and say, I hope you're having a good day, and we'll just let it go.

[2356] And you don't seem to have any problem with anything that you're doing.

[2357] Like, there's not like some things that you're trying to resolve or work through.

[2358] Like, this is what you, you You found this thing.

[2359] You found this way to do it.

[2360] This is my groove.

[2361] I come from Washington, D .C., and I love that city, and I go there every once in a while to visit.

[2362] And some nights I visit with my good pal, Ian, of course.

[2363] But some nights I just walk, I'm on my own, and I walk to all my old jobs, and I walk by apartment buildings I lived in.

[2364] But I walked by people's houses who I grew up with these amazing musicians.

[2365] They all became big musicians.

[2366] And I know they're in there.

[2367] Sometimes I can even see them in the window.

[2368] I don't want to go in.

[2369] I just like walking by their place and knowing they're in there.

[2370] And, like, literally, I've walked, I've seen someone I grew up with, like, on the street.

[2371] And I go, oh, there he goes.

[2372] Okay.

[2373] Well, Henry, why don't you run up and tap him on the shoulder and say, hey, man?

[2374] No. I just like the fact that I just saw him walking.

[2375] That's all I need.

[2376] Wow.

[2377] Yeah, it's weird.

[2378] And I've been like that since I can remember, and it gets more like that the older I get.

[2379] Well, that would make sense because as you get old, You're more rigid in your ways, and your groove is cut deeper and deeper.

[2380] Yeah, and a lot of the stuff I do, it takes a bloody long time to finish it.

[2381] You want to write a book?

[2382] Man, you better get ready for the long haul because you'll be working on that sucker two years later.

[2383] And, you know, it just never ends, like editing revisions.

[2384] And, you know, the tours I go on, it's not like two weeks.

[2385] It's like 13 months.

[2386] Like, I'll see you next year.

[2387] You do that and then you take time off, right?

[2388] You do like a long stretch and then you take time away from the tour.

[2389] Yeah, and the only reason is, if I had my way, I'd be on the road every year and I'd have hours of new material and no one would ever get tired of me coming to their city once a year.

[2390] And I used to tour like that for years.

[2391] I do it's out every year.

[2392] And people are like, Henry, we love you, man, but you got to start coming here less often.

[2393] It's a little offensive.

[2394] You just keep coming like, hey, it's me again.

[2395] And so then I started doing it every other year.

[2396] And then my promoter types who are happy to take their 15%.

[2397] They said, Henry, we love you, man. but you can't you can't keep coming so often people are just getting a little up to here with it even every other year yeah and so but spoken word uh -huh and so i would think that that would be enough time yeah me too i wish it was and so i did what everyone told me to this time around because i know these people are all smarter than me and they said can you wait a little while longer and so the last big tour is 2012 and i went out again in 2016 that was four years basically i went from one presidential election to another and the ticket sales spiked everywhere was like london was like 1500 more tickets than i've ever done there i sold out two nights at the sydney opera house in sydney it was amazing and i said what's that about it said you waited he just gave people a time to to to forget how long you talk for.

[2398] And so it's sad to think that I have to wait until 2020.

[2399] But I can do a little, you know, a weekend here, a weekend there, but I can't go do the lap I just did next year.

[2400] No way.

[2401] But you want to.

[2402] Oh, man. Yeah.

[2403] Yeah.

[2404] I like being on stage.

[2405] I love being in front of those people.

[2406] I like giving.

[2407] I guess getting is the hard part.

[2408] Like when people applaud at the end of the show, I just get nervous.

[2409] I just want to run.

[2410] I stand.

[2411] there like one one one thousand two one thousand three one thousand okay i'm out of here wow yeah it just makes me uncomfortable wow listen henry rollins you're unique motherfucker i don't think i've ever met anybody like you well thank you sir i know i know i have not ever met anybody like you but i appreciate you i appreciate what you're doing and i appreciate your attitude and it is very contagious it's very exciting thank you sir and infectious and thank you very much for doing this i really really appreciate it thank you we got it henry rollins ladies and gentlemen That was great, man.