170 - Habeas Delicious

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Oh, now it's an emergency mode.

[17] Throw up on it.

[18] It's got two settings.

[19] Okay, cool.

[20] All right.

[21] Can you see me?

[22] I can't.

[23] Can you see me?

[24] Right down the galley.

[25] Right down the gauntlet.

[26] Let's keep eye contact this entire episode.

[27] Okay.

[28] Hello.

[29] Hello.

[30] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[31] It's a true crime comedy podcast.

[32] That's right.

[33] You've been waiting for since last Wednesday.

[34] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[35] I mean, Thursday.

[36] Thursday, Thursday.

[37] That's Georgia Hardstruck.

[38] We don't know what day it is.

[39] It doesn't matter what day it is.

[40] We've told you already.

[41] Stop being superficial.

[42] Today.

[43] Oh, you love Wednesdays.

[44] Oh, oh, I love calendars.

[45] Look at me, mark my calendars.

[46] I'm so into calendars.

[47] Like, you don't even know.

[48] Those squares contain all my plans.

[49] Multitudes.

[50] Today, which is a Wednesday, right, is a Tuesday?

[51] No, no, no. It's Wednesday.

[52] Okay.

[53] Today is a year since the Golden State Killer was caught.

[54] Do you remember?

[55] Happy birthday, Karen.

[56] Happy Golden State birthday, George.

[57] Thank you.

[58] I will tell you this right now.

[59] I know exactly where I was driving when I saw it on Twitter.

[60] And thank you again to that person on Twitter that alerted me at 11 o 'clock at night, driving home from something.

[61] I remember that.

[62] Down Moor Park.

[63] I fucking look at Twitter.

[64] Someone says, could it be this is really happening?

[65] Then the texts begin.

[66] You text me. You're the one who informed me. Thank you very much.

[67] I live for it.

[68] I live for it.

[69] It's now two that you've told me were caught cold cases.

[70] that were solved so you're on a roll thank you it's my dream to be that person to be your personal newscaster look out for the delphi murders uh when they catch him because that that's gonna matter so yeah so i need you to tell me that'll be three okay um yeah it was really exciting i think i woke up from a nap at 11 yep that's right and i think you and i were like not talking right then yeah i think we were like had we had just come off was it the european tour yeah was it there was something where it was book and tour and too much of each other.

[71] Stress, stress, stress.

[72] And I was just like, okay, we need to take a, you know, just the week to ourselves.

[73] Can I please have one day?

[74] That's the thing I like to say.

[75] And then the Golden State Killer getting caught us back together.

[76] Yep, I was just like, I know you want to talk to me. That's right.

[77] I know I'm the only person you want to talk to right now.

[78] That's right.

[79] Called you.

[80] And these are the sinews that hold the muscles of the exoskeleton, endoskeleton of our relationship together.

[81] That's right.

[82] on this podcast.

[83] It is like the ocean where the tide goes out.

[84] But baby, it comes back in.

[85] That's right.

[86] Every time.

[87] Save our waters.

[88] I don't know.

[89] Clean up here.

[90] Please get the plastic shit out of our ocean.

[91] Cut up your six -pack plastic can thing.

[92] Yes, a seagull's beak is going to get caught in that.

[93] Is that what you want on your conscience?

[94] It's going to look like a Victorian or a...

[95] What would that be?

[96] Like a seagull?

[97] I thought that was the...

[98] The point is that we're dressing up birds of the ocean as like uh what is it from the 1500s like avant -garde garb yes our avant -garde like grace jones or uh the restoration the 1500s that's right why would i even make a statement let's say the 1500s and so it is the 1500s were either the restoration the renaissance or those two things are the same this is my point you don't need to name the renaissance two things there are many history podcasts that you can immediately hang up on this one and turn that on if you want.

[99] And do it.

[100] And we wish you would.

[101] And we wish you well doing it.

[102] We do.

[103] Oh, I have a quick podcast recommendation that I just started listening to when we're on the plane home from St. Louis and I fucking binge it.

[104] There's like only four episodes.

[105] Okay.

[106] It's called The Ballad of Billy Balls.

[107] And it's -Oh, yes, you've been talking about this.

[108] Oh, and Crime Town put it out.

[109] It's like their next, their new season of their crime.

[110] And it's hosted by I. O. Tillett Wright.

[111] And he's just such a badass.

[112] It's such a fucking good podcast.

[113] It's like, it's like CB, they're trying to solve a like CBGB era fucking rockers murder with the girlfriend of the murder rock murder rocker involved and Iotillet is also involved and you don't know how until the third episode, but it's so fucking good.

[114] I love it so much.

[115] Awesome.

[116] Yeah.

[117] I actually, I guess if we're going to do it, let's do a podcast corner.

[118] Let's do it.

[119] This is our new thing.

[120] because I have been listening so many more lately than normal I went back because I'd never listened to Atlanta Monster which I oftentimes I just stay silent because I'm like sometimes I'm like enough I can't but I've always been fascinated with the Wayne Williams and the Atlanta Child Killer case and how they used to when it was just the American Justice episodes type of treatment it was this thing of it was an open and shut case They caught him on the bridge, da -da -da.

[121] Wayne Williams, period.

[122] But there was other, then there were a couple other shows that would fold in this thing of, isn't that convenient?

[123] Yeah.

[124] That on the last night of the stakeout on this bridge, they caught this guy.

[125] Isn't that convenient?

[126] Isn't it convenient?

[127] You know, what were they trying to step around?

[128] What race issue were they trying to avoid blowing up?

[129] Yeah.

[130] Whatever.

[131] And it was the 80s, right?

[132] So that shit was already blowing up.

[133] It was already roiling.

[134] Yes, and in the South.

[135] Anyway, I just, it, I blazed through it.

[136] Obviously, I'm late to the party, so who cares about it?

[137] this but I just pain Lindsay is great a great podcaster and did such a good job with this investigation and opening those doors instead of going conspiracy theory or like putting that tinge on it yeah it's pulling in this very now modern look of like evidence white people you never look at anything this way because you are you know coming from this bias of you don't know what it's like to feel this like police oppression or this right this abuse constant abuse constant neglect.

[138] Or you think that the community, the, you know, black community thinks of their children differently than you would.

[139] Or somehow it's not as important because it's a child who doesn't look like your child.

[140] Yes.

[141] So, you know, looking at it in that way, of like, it's just as important.

[142] Yes.

[143] And those children deserve justice just as much as any fucking white kid does.

[144] And it's, it's the travesty of when social, uh, right, oppression, it then creates these victims who are entirely innocent.

[145] And that is another really lovely theme, is that, that in essence, these innocent children, just because they're out at 11 o 'clock at night or whatever, just because their home lives weren't ideal, they were innocent children.

[146] So it's so good if you haven't, which everyone already has.

[147] This is like me recommending friends.

[148] It's a great sitcom to watch.

[149] But I just really, it blazed through it and really liked it.

[150] I love it.

[151] And that's podcast corner.

[152] Ding da -da -ding.

[153] Corner.

[154] Corner.

[155] To talk more about podcasts real quick.

[156] Murder Squad.

[157] Their new episode this week has them, this fucking Paul Holes and Billy Johnson, talking about the Golden State Killer, which is like how they met, it's like their fucking thing, you know.

[158] It's their origin story.

[159] And they have a survivor that they interview, and she's just an incredible woman and her amazing son.

[160] You got the Purrcast.

[161] You have the Fall Line, which has, this week, is Christmas Doe and Dennis Doe, two children who were murdered in Georgia in their cold cases.

[162] And then this podcast will kill you this week is doing the Zika virus.

[163] Oh, how nice.

[164] I just love it.

[165] I do love the, how the, kind of like the concentric circles of interest around, like, I like true crime, but I also like other fucked up things that happen.

[166] I love it.

[167] That don't necessarily belong in that little circle, but they definitely belong in that outer circle.

[168] It's like societal woes is my favorite thing.

[169] Sure.

[170] However they come down that pipe.

[171] And pretty soon, exactly right network is going to have yet another poddycast we have like so many coming did I while I was grabbing my boobs did you notice that she's dirty dirty yeah that's sorry no I interrupted you you another podcast that what I don't know we'll have a lot of podcasts coming up soon so stay tuned make sure you follow can you do that exactly right network can you follow a network on iTunes I don't well you subscribe to the network no to every individual show probably you can't But you can subscribe to exactly right on Twitter and Jay is the one posting all those Twitter updates of all the shows.

[172] And Instagram.

[173] Do it.

[174] Please.

[175] We fight about Twitter and Instagram.

[176] We are opposing teams.

[177] One is on jokes only and words only.

[178] One is pictures.

[179] That's right.

[180] What else?

[181] Anything?

[182] Yes.

[183] Yeah.

[184] It was.

[185] Oh, I thought you were like in a very serious moment.

[186] No, no. It was just something before it was about that.

[187] It was like going around it.

[188] Twitter.

[189] Nizzo.

[190] Always.

[191] She retweeted you.

[192] That was exciting.

[193] That was crazy.

[194] But her album had come out.

[195] So she was kind of retweeting everybody that was talking about it.

[196] But she also retweeted Courtney Barnett, who is one of my favorite singer -songwriters.

[197] So good.

[198] Everybody loves Lizzo right now.

[199] She is the it girl of the moment.

[200] That's right.

[201] Oh, I was going to say something great.

[202] Oh.

[203] Fan cult.

[204] We have a fan cult.

[205] all kinds of exciting things.

[206] There's contests coming.

[207] There's going to be like we're giving away like a lunchbox.

[208] It's really weird.

[209] But like a book, like based on our book.

[210] So like the fan cult and the book.

[211] It's, it's, it's book swag.

[212] Yeah, book swag comes out May 28th.

[213] I'm sure we're going to be giving away a lot of signed copies.

[214] All this shit.

[215] Yeah, but fan cult only, we have to be exclusive about it.

[216] Yeah.

[217] I mean, we'll give you a few too.

[218] We can't afford it.

[219] Exclusive.

[220] Okay, oh, right.

[221] Right.

[222] Exclusive.

[223] But basically it's, uh, it's, uh, join the insider circle so you know everything that we're doing.

[224] And it's better than it used to be.

[225] Should we get started?

[226] Yep.

[227] Who's first?

[228] Ugh, this again.

[229] Based on the weekend, Stephen?

[230] No, based on the Power Rangers.

[231] Okay.

[232] Based on reality.

[233] We have to do it based on what the listeners' reality, not our reality.

[234] I always forget which one's which.

[235] I know.

[236] What is reality?

[237] I have truly.

[238] I mean, believe me. Okay.

[239] Okay, bye.

[240] I do.

[241] I'm doing the murder.

[242] of Hella Crafts, a .k .a. the woodchipper murder, aka the first episode of Forensic Files.

[243] No. Yes.

[244] Amazing.

[245] And I was like up all night.

[246] What murder do I do?

[247] Because the one I did ended up being too gruesome.

[248] And I'm like, you can't fucking do that, Georgia.

[249] So I was like, looking for a new one.

[250] And I was like, well, I wonder what the first episode of Forensic Files is.

[251] Found it.

[252] I was like, oh my God, how have we not done this?

[253] This is, I love this idea.

[254] Right?

[255] It's so smart.

[256] Thank you.

[257] I'm very smart.

[258] And this is before.

[259] Forensic Files had started naming their episodes, really weird shit, like, you know, skirting the issues.

[260] Yes, it's always a bad pun.

[261] Right.

[262] And this was just called the disappearance of Helicrafts.

[263] And her name is H -E -L -L -E is how you spell it, but it's H -E -L -E -S -H -E -L -E -L -E.

[264] So I got a lot of the info from morbidology .com.

[265] There's an article by Emily Thompson.

[266] And also, of course, our friend, MurderPedia.

[267] Yes.

[268] Especially an article by Mark Gaddow.

[269] Helacrafts was born, a Heller -Lork Nielsen on July 4th.

[270] In 1947, she grew up in a small village in Denmark.

[271] Okay.

[272] And she's vibrant.

[273] She's outgoing.

[274] She made friends easily.

[275] She's super fucking smart.

[276] By the time when she was a teenager, she had learned French and English and was able to understand German, Norwegian, and Swedish.

[277] So I know only three of those.

[278] That's a lie.

[279] I'm not even great at English.

[280] Do you remember when we were in Scandinavia trying to pronounce those fucking city names?

[281] Georg.

[282] Oh, yeah.

[283] And there were, my favorite was, and I know we've told the story, but going up and making people in the front road tell us how to pronounce it, meanwhile, they were speaking absolutely perfect like California English where they're like, don't worry about it.

[284] We don't really care.

[285] We're like, oh my God.

[286] Or they were all like expats who didn't know how to say it either or they had just come to, you know, Amsterdam to see us.

[287] Yeah, they were just on vacation.

[288] It was hilarious.

[289] Stop asking us shit.

[290] Yeah.

[291] So yeah, she would have been good at that.

[292] So by the time she was 20, Hela is a beautiful young woman.

[293] I showed Vince a photo and I was like, who does she look like?

[294] like, because I need to explain.

[295] And he immediately was like Emily Watson.

[296] Oh, wow.

[297] So the actress Emily Watson were an East Coast, like, housewife.

[298] That's what she looked like.

[299] And it's exactly like her.

[300] She became a Dutch stewardess.

[301] What do we say now?

[302] Not stewardess.

[303] Flight attendant.

[304] Flight attendant or air hostess?

[305] I'm not sure.

[306] I'm going to go flight attendant.

[307] Okay.

[308] And then she loved discovering new places.

[309] It was like a perfect job for her because she was so outgoing and friendly and everyone fucking loved her, of course.

[310] Then she found out that Pan America Airlines.

[311] Pan Am.

[312] Pan Am was hiring.

[313] Sure.

[314] She applied along with 200 other people for eight spaces available and she got one.

[315] Yeah.

[316] Which is, sorry to say, but that is kind of like a beauty contest because back then, that's kind of what it was.

[317] It was like the Hooters of the Air.

[318] But not in an objectification way.

[319] You also had to be a good, you know, wait.

[320] Host -hostess.

[321] Yes.

[322] You had to really, you had to be good at like up close customer service.

[323] Yeah.

[324] Yeah.

[325] Don't they have like a Pan Am experience here in L .A. somewhere where you can do like the whole, you have dinner as if you were on a Pan Am flight from the 60s.

[326] No. So I follow this incredible woman.

[327] Her name is Alison Martino.

[328] She's the daughter of Al Martino, who was this singer in the fucking 50s and 60s, like old Los Angeles, crooner type of dude.

[329] And she posts, she does these like crazy experiences and tells you all this history of L .A. So she went on this Pan Am experience and it's like they serve you, the food they would have served you.

[330] We have to do that.

[331] Stephen, you looked at it up.

[332] and what'd you find?

[333] Air Hollywood's fandom experience is a weekly retro -themed event for aviation enthusiasts and people looking for a new fine dining experience.

[334] I am.

[335] That's me. You always say.

[336] I always with my long fake nails, point at you and say.

[337] With your capri.

[338] Yes.

[339] Georgia, hold on.

[340] Let me take a sip of this wine spritzer.

[341] Okay.

[342] Well, we'll go.

[343] It's going to be in my favorite murder event.

[344] Outing.

[345] The field trips are beginning.

[346] That's right.

[347] And then we have to do reports on field trips.

[348] Yeah.

[349] Stephen's our bus driver.

[350] Great.

[351] Okay.

[352] Where were we?

[353] I don't fucking know.

[354] She becomes a Pan Am.

[355] That's right.

[356] She won out of 200 people.

[357] She got top eight.

[358] That's right.

[359] So she sent to Miami for training and it was there on May 24th, 1969, the height probably of Miami at the time.

[360] Yeah.

[361] That she met 31 -year -old Richard Crafts.

[362] Crafts like I'm crafting.

[363] Okay.

[364] He's a pilot for Eastern Airlines.

[365] And to me, there's not a lot of photos of him, but I wrote, if Mr. Rogers were a dick and an insurance sales.

[366] that's what he looks like so mr rogers but more tan and more buff yeah and like not a friendly face the warmth is gone the warmth's gone and he's trying to sell you a bat shitty stocks okay okay he's trying to get you to get in on this Ponzi scheme he's a Ponzi type exactly okay so like fucking rip to mr rogers and i'm sorry to desecrate your beautiful name but we need a baseline that's right thank you um when he met hella in 1969 he was already engaged to someone else but they they hooked up they maintain an on again off again relationship for the next few years they fought all the time her friends said sometimes in public her friends didn't like him they're like you can get any fucking dude and you're then this mr rogers looking motherfucker um and they're like you need to join adult children of alcoholics or some shit like that because clearly you're chaos addict that's right yeah chaos addict that's good oh you're pointing can i say that you're pointing at yourself sure you pointed out yourself with gusto I love Chaos.

[367] Oh, are you?

[368] Yes.

[369] Oh my God.

[370] How are we friends?

[371] I don't know.

[372] You know what?

[373] Maybe I love chaos addicts.

[374] I don't think you mind chaos yourself.

[375] I know.

[376] Yeah.

[377] But it's weird.

[378] It's like you don't want to.

[379] You don't want to think of yourself that way.

[380] Yeah.

[381] But for me, that's the thing of like being late or not turning things in or whatever.

[382] It's like, now what's going to happen?

[383] Oh.

[384] So there's a little bit of I'm pretending that that somehow means I'm in control, which I'm not.

[385] I feel like I'm chaotic and I have anxiety about it and I hate it.

[386] I hate it.

[387] I hate it and I don't want to be right same okay that's what that means but there's almost like if it's what you grew up with oh then it feels like mother's milk so you kind of go like it's my baseline dude and you don't want it to be so I shame can I side anecdote please and I meant to mention this my mom got married yes last week after having been with my now new stepdad which is the weird I've never had a step parent my life and what's your new line what's my new line You're not my real dad?

[388] You're not my real dad, John.

[389] But we love John.

[390] She's been with him for like 15 years.

[391] She's the best fucking person.

[392] I adore him.

[393] I get a text message on Tuesday to 14 other people.

[394] It was a group text, including phone numbers I didn't have in my phone.

[395] So fucking strangers to me. And my mom said, surprise, we got married.

[396] Who fucking does it.

[397] And then when I said to her, you know, I was just like, that's so Janet.

[398] It's fine.

[399] I'm so happy for you.

[400] Wonderful, wonderful.

[401] And then later when we talked, I was like, you know, I really would have loved a phone call, like just to tell me that this happened.

[402] And she's just like, oh, I'm such a bad mom.

[403] Oh, you are, you need, you know, did that.

[404] Well, here's the thing, though.

[405] She's the kind of person that, like, it is deadly to be wrong for her.

[406] It's deadly to be wrong.

[407] And you can't even, like, just even put in one suggestion in the suggestion box.

[408] All I want to see, yeah, I could see why you'd want that.

[409] That's it.

[410] I know.

[411] You didn't have to do it.

[412] Just understand that.

[413] Just hear what I'm saying and, like, readjust your perspective.

[414] My mom was the exact same way where any time I would just be like, you know what kind of sucks?

[415] And she'd be like, oh, I'm sorry you get everything you want all that.

[416] Where it was like, no complaint was valid.

[417] Which is why when then that comes up for me and where I just like, you then just time travel into having these fights because you did that when you were 11 with the person that was in charge of reality.

[418] Jesus Christ.

[419] All right.

[420] Go ahead.

[421] How are we successful based on our fucking.

[422] Oh, my life.

[423] Seriously.

[424] You lit your bed on fire.

[425] as a, like, four -year -old.

[426] I lit my fucking life on fire, friend.

[427] I was just telling somebody this where I was just like, right up till this podcast got popular, I was sliding down the face of the mountain into the fucking death pool.

[428] Like, I was done.

[429] And you were like hands at the site, like on a roller coaster.

[430] Yeah, I was like, here we go.

[431] Fuck it.

[432] Fuck it all.

[433] Yeah.

[434] And then we both pulled each other up.

[435] Yep, thank you.

[436] Hey, thank you.

[437] Thank you, Karen.

[438] Thank you, Karen.

[439] Thank you, Karen.

[440] Janet, we're calling Janet on the phone.

[441] God damn it.

[442] Damn it, Janet.

[443] Okay.

[444] Blah, blah, blah.

[445] They're together.

[446] It's volatile.

[447] They probably shouldn't have been.

[448] But then in 1975, Hela found out that she was pregnant.

[449] Oh.

[450] And they decided to get married.

[451] Sure.

[452] Okay.

[453] They bought a one -level ranch house in the city of Newtown, Newtown.

[454] Where Helen had her first child, and then over the next few years, she had two more.

[455] So they have three kids together.

[456] Richard picks up a second job as an auxiliary police officer.

[457] Is that a security guard?

[458] I think it's like, yeah, it's like a part -time cop, which shouldn't be a thing without all the, like, you don't get all the bells and whistles.

[459] You don't know how to do anything, but you have a gun.

[460] That's right.

[461] But, like, he also was, like, kind of a dick about it.

[462] Like, he bought the exact same kind of police car that they had and put, like, wires and shit on it.

[463] And he just would come to the station even when he wasn't on shift.

[464] Like, he really wanted it.

[465] And he was, like, really enforced whatever fucking baby, uh, whatever he had.

[466] enforced any power, any baby power that he had, he like double time.

[467] Oh, got it, got it.

[468] Yeah.

[469] So it's like, oh, so you can tell, you can, you can write up someone a citation.

[470] Right.

[471] But it isn't really a ticket.

[472] And they're like, yeah, I'll fucking write citations all day.

[473] All day, about every little thing.

[474] And it's like, calm down, dude.

[475] So, yeah, so it's great.

[476] He's doing that.

[477] She's continuing to work as a airline flight attendant.

[478] Flight attendant.

[479] Yes.

[480] And according to.

[481] Who are more than their looks.

[482] I'm sorry.

[483] I've said the thing about.

[484] No, no, you were talking about in the 60s, it was.

[485] Yeah, the late 60s when it was kind of like, yeah.

[486] It's a known thing in the 60s.

[487] Yeah, yeah.

[488] You're good.

[489] So I looked it up, of course, on my favorite murder g -mail and found a murderino named Maggie B. Her mother back then babysat for the craft's children.

[490] Wow.

[491] And she said Richard was a, quote, bit of an odd ball.

[492] And that Hela was very sweet, very pretty, Swedish woman with a thick accent.

[493] And fuck him.

[494] I said I added that part So the marriage is rocky Of course Richard starts cheating on her Even before they're married When he's asked why they got married He said quote Hello I was pregnant at the time We were married It was too far advanced For a doctor to perform an abortion And we decided to get married So the most romantic Just in romance at the height of It's called like a deep human soul connection Yes When you get married because it's too late To get an abortion That's what Oprah calls it.

[495] deep human deep human soul connection minus an abortion yeah so during their marriage richard's just fucking cheating all the time he has all these affairs um he would disappear for days at a time and never say where he was and he also bought a shit ton of guns oh for whatever reason because it because that's sexy for his dates yeah oh and because he's an auxiliary policeman yeah so he was like obsessed with guns they had they made a pretty good wage because of being in the airline industry is good and so he spent it all.

[496] He didn't give her any money.

[497] He spent all the money on fucking guns and shit.

[498] Wow.

[499] And in the months leading up to her disappearance, Hela had discovered phone calls to an unknown number, and she's like, he's fucking doing it again.

[500] Like, she'd kind of ignored it because of the kids and stuff, and he probably promised he wasn't doing it anymore.

[501] So to confirm her suspicions, she hires a private detective.

[502] He's a former Connecticut cop.

[503] His name is Keith Mayo.

[504] Okay.

[505] Which I love.

[506] He'd be played Mayo.

[507] like I've heard of his clinic That's amazing That's right It has all the best mayonnaise That's right This guy's the best He'd be played by a young moustachioed Paul Giamatti Hello Which I think any role Any movie that my favorite murder makes Is going to have Paul Giamati in it We got to and also just in terms of being a utility Character actor Right You can slap a very slight toupee on him And he's a completely different person You can paint him blue You can do whatever it takes And the biopic of blue man group.

[508] Fane him blue.

[509] Blue man group, fucking Avatar.

[510] That's right.

[511] Or his great film, Big Fat Liar, which my entire family is obsessed with.

[512] Or his cameo in the forthcoming book, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, the audiobook.

[513] That's right.

[514] Is that known yet?

[515] Did we talk about it?

[516] I think we have talked about it, but we might as well brag on it a little bit more.

[517] Paul Giamati is helping us read our audiobook here and there.

[518] Here and there, he reached out to us And we were like, hi, can you, will you do this?

[519] Is this really you?

[520] Are you making fun of us?

[521] Yes.

[522] And he was like, yes, yes, no, I think.

[523] That's right.

[524] The end.

[525] Paul Giamati.

[526] You'll see.

[527] Oh, you'll see.

[528] You'll see when you listen to the audiobook.

[529] And yes, we read it too.

[530] Okay.

[531] So, Keith Mayo confirms that not only is Richard having another affair, he's had one girlfriend, in particular, in New Jersey, who he had been seeing for years.

[532] Oh, I hate that.

[533] Look, I hate that so much.

[534] It's so fucking mean to the other person.

[535] It's so mean to pretend that you're doing, to pretend that you are sharing a reality when you're not.

[536] Yeah.

[537] I think that's so fucking shitty.

[538] Like to trick the person into thinking that their life is what is one thing.

[539] And it turns out it's a good thing.

[540] Like just tell them that they're knife.

[541] Like you have to go crazy when you find that out, right?

[542] Yes, because then suddenly it's just like, it's one thing you have to have an affair with people you don't care about.

[543] And it's like, oh, he can't stop fucking.

[544] That sucks.

[545] Yes.

[546] But to be posted up with a totally other person and just have like a secret life.

[547] And being like, I love you and spending all your emotional fucking energy on them.

[548] It's nightmare.

[549] It's just everyone's worst nightmare.

[550] It's like you're keeping something from me and it's terrible.

[551] Well, this guy was really doing it.

[552] And clearly didn't care about how it impacted.

[553] Anne was fucking around too.

[554] So it's like...

[555] He was even fucking the secret girl.

[556] I mean, fucking over the secret girlfriend.

[557] Yeah.

[558] It's like no one's safe with El Martino, whatever the hell his name is.

[559] No, that's the...

[560] father of the Instagram I'm sorry shit I'm so sorry what's his name sorry what's the husband's name Richard Crafts thank you okay no one's safe with Richard Crafts Stephen that's an easy pull no it's not safe with your leave it okay leave it we're here we're raw we're un we're flawed and raw and we love chaos yeah chaos rains we accuse people of shit okay so now that she has proof of his infidelity, she files for divorce.

[561] And she told her friends that she had feared for her life and that, and they kind of believed her because she told them, you know, she confided in her friends about what a dick he was.

[562] And she had appeared in public multiple times with bruises on her face.

[563] So, um, her divorce lawyer said that she told them that, quote, if anything happened to me, not quote, if anything happened to me, we should not believe that it was an accident.

[564] Which is like, uh, it sucks.

[565] How many times have we said that though also in the story?

[566] Every time.

[567] Women who know what's coming.

[568] That's right.

[569] It's the worst.

[570] It's so sad.

[571] And she also told her a lawyer that Richard had a shit ton of guns and that he had physically abused her in the past.

[572] So despite the fact that he was cheating on her, she decided to attain a no -fault divorce as opposed to charge him with adultery.

[573] And I'm, you know, I can imagine it's just like, let's make this as, like, let's not fucking make him angry.

[574] Like, let's make this as easy as possible.

[575] It's not like make him react in any way.

[576] It sucks so bad.

[577] Yeah, she's just trying to slide out the door and close up behind her so she can get out, like, free and clear.

[578] That's right.

[579] So she did that.

[580] And she was concerned about the children, as well how he would react.

[581] The divorce papers were written up, but they're never served because on November 18, 1986, 39 -year -old Hela returns from working on a flight from Germany, and she's dropped off at her house by two other flight attendants.

[582] And they knew about the rocky relationship with Richard.

[583] So when they dropped her off, and she was like, oh, shit, he's home.

[584] Because I think they still live together.

[585] They understood.

[586] So it was the last time anyone aside from her husband saw her alive.

[587] So her friends become concerned when they haven't heard from Hela.

[588] And Richard starts telling everyone a different fucking story.

[589] Like she was on another flight or she was at home in Denmark with her mom.

[590] And her mom's like, no, dudes.

[591] She's not home with me. And probably like just like that.

[592] And other, you know, he gave different stories to everyone.

[593] So one of Hela's co -workers named Rita didn't believe Richard's bullshit and was worried about her friend.

[594] So she reports Hela missing on the 1st of December two weeks after she had gone missing.

[595] Wow.

[596] So when the police questioned Richard, who by now is an actual policeman with the neighboring county, he gives them a bunch of bullshit.

[597] He passes a lie detector test.

[598] And so they're like, great.

[599] And they didn't fucking worry about it.

[600] And so here comes fucking Mr. Mayo, Keith Mayo, who like got hired for this job of proving that he was cheating.

[601] And he was like, fuck this shit.

[602] He's like, I'm getting involved.

[603] This is bullshit.

[604] He was worried about his client.

[605] So he decided he needed to find evidence to convince the police to take Hela's disappearance seriously.

[606] He finds in the papers provided by Hela, he finds a receipt for a chainsaw.

[607] and then he learns that the O 'Pere the O 'Pere tells him that Richard had cut out pieces of his bedroom rug and discarded them at a local dump.

[608] Thank you, O 'Pair.

[609] That's right.

[610] Seriously, that was some key fucking evidence.

[611] Yeah, she's definitely mandatory in this whole case.

[612] Okay, nice.

[613] So he's like, we're going to the dump.

[614] This guy, this fucking private investigator, he, with the help of the local trash pickup crew, they find out which dump the craft's trash have been taken to and it's like two hours east of Newtown he recruits a few helpers and for the next several days they search a mountain of trash at the dump can you imagine but they they do succeed in locating a portion of rug that's nearly identical to the rug at the craft's residence and it's taken to the state police laboratory in meriden led by a young forensics investigator for the state police none other than and it's the first episode of forensic files Dr. Henry Lee.

[615] There he is.

[616] He should be on the first episode of Forensic Files.

[617] This took place in the Forensic Files was aired in 1996.

[618] So I was 16 when I'm sure I first fucking saw this.

[619] I was flying on diet pills age 26.

[620] And Henry Lee was just a bright -eyed, bushy -tailed forensics dude.

[621] That's amazing.

[622] Yeah.

[623] He's one of the country's foremost forensic scientists already though.

[624] So Hellas Friends also kept up a nonstop campaign of calling the police for updates about the investigation because they fucking knew that she wouldn't have just disappeared and left her children behind.

[625] No, of course.

[626] And as a result, the state's attorney's office, so they fucking usurp the local cops, they decide that the investigation should be handled in total by the Connecticut state police.

[627] So they take the fucking case away.

[628] That's what that's for.

[629] That's right.

[630] So when they looked into his behavior finally without note, because they didn't know him and didn't give a shit, right?

[631] They weren't buddies.

[632] They they look into his behavior right after she disappeared and they find some strange shit.

[633] So aside from several pieces of the carpet in the bedroom that had been removed, he had completely remodeled their bedroom and then Dr. Lee performed of course, it's the first episode of forensic files.

[634] Aluminol test.

[635] Yay!

[636] In various locations they test positive for the presence of blood and among Richard's credit card records they find that he had purchased a new freezer.

[637] Shane saw he had bought all So they found that he had rented a 2 ,700 -pound wood chipper in a U -Haul truck shortly before Hela disappeared.

[638] Oh, God.

[639] He also, his numerous affairs continued after Hela disappeared and never once he mentioned to any of these fucking women who knew he was married that his wife was missing.

[640] So, and then Hela's car is found in an employee airport parking lot.

[641] So when the story of Hela's disappearance finally starts making the news because someone's fucking taking it seriously, the snowplow, driver comes forward.

[642] And he is like, I know Richard.

[643] You know, he knew him by sight.

[644] I saw Mr. Crafts using the wood chipper near the lake in the early morning hours of like right after she disappeared.

[645] It was a, there had been a severe winter storm that had hit Connecticut.

[646] And it was snow and sleet everywhere gusty winds.

[647] And so they were emergency snow plowing the roads.

[648] And he drives past his U -Haul and he sees a fucking.

[649] and woodchipper attached to it and then he sees this Richard crafts and he's like that's fucking weird that's weird out in the middle of this post snowstorm day so when he finds out that his wife is missing he comes forward good um good job snowplow guy that's right i like to call you mr plow because name again is mr plow thank you uh do da da da okay police go to the scene of where uh the wood chipper was seen and they find there's a scattering of woodchips under a layer of dead leaves and among those wood chips they also find a human thumb a fingertip with the nail attached covered in pink nail polish 2660 2 ,660 strands of blonde hair a big toe 69 slivers of human bone a truncated piece of human skull five droplets of human blood and a mailing label with Helicraft's name on it and two teeth so awful that's all this fucking laughed also slight sidebar but woodchippers themselves are frightening machines if you never okay never so those kinds of things were always around growing up because like my aunt and uncle had a farm so they were and we lived on eucalyptus Avenue and there was a eucalyptus grove between our house and my Aunt Jean's house.

[650] So they used to have to go into the creek every year and cut down trees and then put them in the wood chipper.

[651] Okay.

[652] And there's a famous family story of them doing it.

[653] My dad, my uncle Steve and my cousin Stevie.

[654] And I think Stevie was like a 17 or 18.

[655] And they were throwing stuff in the woodchipper.

[656] And Stevie threw a branch.

[657] It caught in his sleeve.

[658] No. And then he started, his arm started going into the woodchipper connected to this branch that was by like basically gravity.

[659] pulling him in and my dad turned around and yanked him back out basically like saved his arm holy shit when they came back and retold the story they were all white like completely pale gray and we're just like my cousin stevie who was such an asshole growing up and he like turned to me and my sister's like your dad saved my arm he probably would have bled out yeah you're right your arm gets chewed off in there it's just going to be massive amounts of blood loss if you're out in the middle of the fucking farm and you get to what is like a half an hour to town you're so right also that's an I survived where the guy gets his arms cut off in the combine and it but he lives he lives he lives and he gets they get reattached but also it's the thing of in that moment like I think about this all the time I freeze sometimes in when things like that happen like if somebody screams or there's a loud noise oftentimes it'll be like wait what's going on but I think because my dad was a fireman he just had that thing of you do not you just act for sure judge it and you don't panic either.

[660] He probably has had so much experience and not panicking, whereas like, we don't see shit like that all the time, so we do panic.

[661] Yeah.

[662] They're just, close calls, close calls.

[663] And woodchippers are just so scary.

[664] So scary.

[665] Well, this motherfucker.

[666] Yeah.

[667] So, okay, and in total, Dr. Henry Lee's team found just a total of three ounces of human remains.

[668] Wow.

[669] Total.

[670] So Dr. Henry Lee determined that the O -type blood positive was a match to Hellas and that the bone fragments belonged to a human, and a forensic odontologist was able to identify the tooth as belonging to helicrafts.

[671] So they confirmed that it was her body.

[672] In addition, they uncovered a submerged chainsaw in the hosatonic river.

[673] Or house satanic river?

[674] It's house satanic.

[675] Yes, that's it.

[676] That's the one.

[677] The chainsaw had blonde hairs intertwined in the chains, and inside the rented U -Hull van, they also found a clump of human tissue -like material that tested positive for human blood.

[678] monster.

[679] So this guy was like a monster and messy and like not good.

[680] Just disgusting.

[681] Yeah, he like didn't even, he was like a mile from his house.

[682] He like didn't even, he was so cocky that he would never get caught that he just didn't even fucking care.

[683] Psychopath.

[684] Yeah.

[685] So based on this information, of course, Helicrafts is pronounced dead and 50 year old Richard is arrested when he arrives home from a Christmas ski trip with his children.

[686] Wow.

[687] Right after their mother goes disappearing.

[688] That's what it is.

[689] That's what it is.

[690] They face a double burden because not only did they have to convince the jury that Hela was actually dead because they didn't have quote unquote a body, which had never happened.

[691] There's never been a trial in Connecticut up until this point where there was a body and a murder trial.

[692] And they also had to convince the jury that Richard was the one who killed her.

[693] So there was no physical body.

[694] And the motive they argued was that Richard didn't want to get a divorce, of course.

[695] They theorized that Richard first struck Hela unconscious with something blunt in their bedroom.

[696] and then he carried her body to the freezer where he left her to freeze assuming because it's easier and less messy to put through the wood chipper which is so fucking awful.

[697] Disgusting.

[698] Like to think that through in those details and then it's also your wife and the mother of your children.

[699] I mean, it is the thing of this is the difference where you can, this is the difference of when you have a conscience and when you don't.

[700] Because thinking about the scene from Fargo of the wood chipper, I get sick and, like, I don't want to think about it anymore.

[701] And the person who's being woodshipped is a fucking, this was a terrible character.

[702] It's a terrible character, but also it's like, it's a prop leg sticking.

[703] You know what I mean?

[704] It's as fake as it can be, and I don't like thinking about it.

[705] Yeah, and the person who puts him through is like a dead -eyed monster.

[706] Yes.

[707] And this person did it to his fucking wife.

[708] Yeah.

[709] Which is sick.

[710] So he then took Hellas body to the river where he was seen by the snowplower, thank God.

[711] That's her plow.

[712] And chopped into several.

[713] pieces with the chainsaw and then put through the witch were sickening.

[714] I mean, think about your children.

[715] They're going to have to fucking grow up knowing this.

[716] He doesn't think about anybody.

[717] Of course not.

[718] The police believed that he then scattered the pieces in the river and around the surrounding area.

[719] So during his trial, the couple's housekeeper, Don Thomas, tells the courtroom that on the day of hell his disappearance, Richard had allowed her to go home early.

[720] And she testified that Richard had removed a freezer and a carpet with a large black stain from their home, just a couple days after Hela disappeared.

[721] I fucking love these witnesses.

[722] They're all like, I love them with my heart.

[723] It's bananas.

[724] When Don is asked about the particular, when Don is like Richard, what's that fucking stain?

[725] Mr. Crafts, whatever.

[726] He's like, I spilled kerosene and I, I don't want you to clean it.

[727] I'm just going to cut the fucking carpet out.

[728] Yeah.

[729] Oh, you mean because you had your hurricane lamp up in the bedroom?

[730] Right.

[731] You fucking piece of shit.

[732] Hela's friend Susan Loston tells the court that Richard had physically abused Hella before, and that he had lied.

[733] He had said his colon cancer had come back.

[734] And when Hella called the doctor to confirm that, it turned out he was lying to get her to not go through with a divorce.

[735] Oh, God.

[736] That's right.

[737] Then Richard Kraft's own brother -in -law testified that when the state police divers started looking for his wife in the rivers, he said, quote, let them dive.

[738] There's no body.

[739] It's gone.

[740] His own brother -in -law did that.

[741] after 100 fucking witnesses and 650 exhibits are presented in a 53 day trial which I guess is a very fucking long time the jury deliberates for 17 days and on July 15th, 1988 a mistrial is fucking called declared yes because there was one motherfucking jury member who it was 11 to 1 in favor of conviction one jury member walks out because he refuses to vote to convict so it was a mistrial He was just somehow like, I don't think...

[742] And that man was Mitch McConnell.

[743] Fucking piece of shit.

[744] The prosecutors, bless their hearts.

[745] They're like, fuck you, we're doing this again.

[746] Like they were...

[747] Oh, thank God.

[748] Thank God.

[749] They were like, fuck you, fuck you.

[750] So the second trial scheduled for the following year.

[751] This time the prosecution is able to successfully argue that Hela had been murdered, and it took only eight hours to reach a unanimous verdict.

[752] Three years and two days since Hela.

[753] was last seen alive, the jury found that Richard was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[754] Few.

[755] And at his sentencing, he says, quote, a great deal has been said about my apparent lack of emotion.

[756] I have feelings like everyone else, which is like, how do you think you do?

[757] It's that weird psychopath thing where it's like, this is how everyone feels about things.

[758] Right.

[759] You don't know what other people's emotions are.

[760] And the blindness to when you finally go to say something, it's all about, oh my God, this is so hard for me. Right.

[761] You're not even smart enough to not do the thing that psychopaths always do, which is, I've been through a lot in this trial where it's like, you idiot, you're pointing back at yourself again.

[762] Totally.

[763] It's like these people are so manipulating and cunning and fucking like, what's like nefarious?

[764] Mentally ill. Yes.

[765] But then they're like pretty stupid because they don't think, they don't think with empathy and with an open mind.

[766] Okay, that's the one.

[767] It's hubris.

[768] That guy.

[769] They think it's what you said.

[770] They think they're smarter than everybody.

[771] So there's no, in their mind, there's no way they can mess up.

[772] Right.

[773] Because they have already thought it all through and they know everything.

[774] Right.

[775] Nightmare.

[776] So, um, he maintained his innocence and continued to say that Hela had just disappeared.

[777] At a sentencing, Richard's own fucking sister, who by then had custody of the couple's three children.

[778] Oh.

[779] I know.

[780] She urged the judge to impose the maximum sentence, his own sister.

[781] Shit.

[782] He's sentenced to 50 years in prison.

[783] Yay.

[784] Keith Mayo.

[785] What's my know?

[786] I was like, what happened to Keith Mayo, though?

[787] And so I googled him.

[788] He sent a registered letter to the police commissioner, commission chairman asking for an independent investigation to why the Newtown police did not take hell as missing persons report seriously.

[789] So he called for an investigation of the conduct of the police department's detective bureau, which is like, you'd fucking double down.

[790] Like he did not be, he didn't need to be involved in any of this, but he was like, I'm going to follow this through.

[791] Yeah.

[792] Which is so fucking.

[793] He cared.

[794] Sadly, in 1999.

[795] At 46 years old, Keith Mayo died from injuries, suffered in a car accident.

[796] Oh, no. I was so bum when I saw that.

[797] That's so young.

[798] I know.

[799] He was survived by his wife and three children.

[800] Helicraft's murder was a landmark case.

[801] It advanced forensic science greatly.

[802] It involved serology, radiology, ballistics, hair, and fiber experts, and FBI experts.

[803] And it was the first case in which somebody was convicted of murder with nobody in the state of Connecticut.

[804] It's not called habeas?

[805] I've been trying to think of it.

[806] Corpus delicti.

[807] For real?

[808] Yeah.

[809] Here's how I was trying to think of it.

[810] Yes, that's delecti.

[811] Corpus delicti.

[812] Because I just saw them talking about it on another forensic files when we were on tour.

[813] Yeah, I think I watched that one too.

[814] We were watching it at the same time.

[815] The one Skip Hollinsworth was on.

[816] Oh, Skip.

[817] But I kept thinking how funny it is.

[818] Delecti may sound like delicious body.

[819] Yeah, delectable.

[820] Yeah.

[821] So as I was trying to think of it, like, I was going to sound so smart if I could come up with habeas corpus delecti.

[822] But I was like, like, habeas deletia.

[823] Like I kept thinking of it.

[824] I'm like, just don't say.

[825] No, no. I only know it because I listened to No Stone Unturn, the study of the, what do I call it?

[826] No Stone Unturn, which is the story of necro search who find bodies that have been hidden and because of that they can try the murderers because they have a body.

[827] Okay.

[828] A couple of years ago, Joel Cohen admitted in a Huffington Post article that the woodchipper scene in Fargo is directly inspired by the murders.

[829] the murder of Helicraft.

[830] That makes perfect sense.

[831] And the earliest Richard can be released is August 2021 when he'll be 84 years old.

[832] So let's fucking Keith Mayo that shit and keep him in prison.

[833] They will.

[834] Especially, I mean, like, it's infamous.

[835] Yeah.

[836] And he's 80.

[837] Where's he going to go now?

[838] Totally.

[839] And that's the story of the murder of Helicrafts.

[840] Wow.

[841] God.

[842] Great idea.

[843] Thanks.

[844] I'm just going to start doing that.

[845] Unsolved Mysteries.

[846] First episode.

[847] Cold Case Files first episode.

[848] I love that though because you know James Charles the makeup guy that me and Nora, my niece Nora, love to watch together.

[849] He did that same thing where he went to the first YouTube makeup tutorial and did it along with the woman who did the first YouTube makeup tutorial.

[850] Legend.

[851] It was, it's the funniest.

[852] It made us laugh so hard because it was like clearly from like 1996 or whatever.

[853] And I think it was Bobby Brown.

[854] I think it was like, or Jane Arredale or something.

[855] Someone was like, you know it's a great idea and everyone's like, why are you bothering with that?

[856] Yeah, exactly.

[857] And they're like, no, come on, throw some bronzer on.

[858] Yeah.

[859] No one's going to watch this.

[860] And he did it along with, and he couldn't get over that she was applying foundation with her fingers.

[861] He was so grossed out.

[862] It was really funny.

[863] Amazing.

[864] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[865] Absolutely.

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[884] Goodbye.

[885] Hey, this is exciting.

[886] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[887] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[888] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[889] Who killed Saz?

[890] And were they really after Charles?

[891] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[892] This season, murder hits close to home.

[893] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[894] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[895] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[896] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[897] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Meryl Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[898] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[899] Goodbye.

[900] Okay, is it my turn?

[901] That's your turn.

[902] Okay.

[903] This was one I was thinking of doing for St. Louis for the live show.

[904] Mm -hmm.

[905] Too dark or big or heavy or whatever.

[906] So I didn't do it.

[907] So it's so funny that, like, It's still dark and big and heavy.

[908] We just don't have to hear the audience silence when you say something terrible.

[909] That's the only difference.

[910] Right.

[911] Yeah, our live show is more comedic.

[912] I would say it's like on the scale tips toward comedic as opposed to true crime.

[913] Because.

[914] Because it's a fucking live show.

[915] Yeah.

[916] And that's the fun part.

[917] We definitely do the dark part.

[918] It's fun, but it's also hard to say all these horrible things and then have no reaction from the audience.

[919] Well, yeah.

[920] Once you're in a live show setting and vibe, you just want those.

[921] fucking laughs.

[922] And that's, I mean, I don't know what you want.

[923] That's what I want.

[924] That's what I want.

[925] That's all I want.

[926] I don't want to talk about the horrible things.

[927] So tell me right now.

[928] Okay.

[929] So in privacy with just Stephen watching, it's so much easier to tell you about the Kansas City Hyatt walkway collapse of 1981.

[930] Do you know about this?

[931] Dude.

[932] I'd never heard of it.

[933] And because sometimes I go like, oh, maybe there's a disaster that's like, you know, something to talk about.

[934] And these ones are awful.

[935] And it's human and it's innocent lives.

[936] So, like, you know, it's very difficult to talk about.

[937] Can I tell you, though, what's so weird, the one I ended up, I had a murder, I said, and I changed my mind last minute because it was too gruesome.

[938] Mine was when I was going to do in Nashville, but was too gruesome for that.

[939] It was the Interstate 75 largest car crash in American history.

[940] I, why wouldn't you do that one?

[941] Yes, was it, is it because of the fog?

[942] Yeah, yes.

[943] Because of the fog from the paper mill.

[944] So it's, it's not murder, but it's, um, What's it called when you don't pay attention enough when you're like...

[945] You mean like human error?

[946] Yeah.

[947] Yeah, yeah.

[948] Yes, exactly.

[949] So there's not, it's not like there's a villain or a bad guy.

[950] It's like this could have happened.

[951] It could have been you.

[952] No, no, no. Yes.

[953] And it's like passive murder because the paper plants didn't give a shit and just like let this stuff happen for years and years.

[954] Yes.

[955] Manslaughter, I think they call it.

[956] Okay.

[957] I mean.

[958] Well, I'll do it sometime in the future.

[959] That's what you mean.

[960] Are you sure you haven't done that?

[961] Because that sounds super.

[962] familiar probably have let's be honest i had to make stephen look up the one i just did right before we recorded because i was like i bet i've done this before you just said that was look look i probably have hey look look don't judge me listen okay okay so we're in this fucked up story but it's 1981 so let me set a little picture for you i'm so into this i'm so here for this okay thank you it's 81 it's not just before which everything when we're talking about things like this and we're always like it's before the internet or whatever but this is so far back 81 is like when everything was brown tan or moss green the world was muted muted dimmer boring flat pre -video games this was like go outside and ride your bike or you're fucked or watch uh bugs money cartoons from 1944 right and i love lucy yeah go go try to play pong and that's that was an exciting video game that's right we begged my dad for fucking pong.

[963] And then Atari came out.

[964] We're like, no, no, no, we want Atari.

[965] And then he waited three years and got us Pong.

[966] Because Jim fought.

[967] He's, he fought it and fought it.

[968] And he would always go like, we'd be like, dad, please, can we get cable?

[969] Can we please have HBO?

[970] And he'd be like, we have it at the firehouse.

[971] You don't need it.

[972] You don't like it.

[973] You're not missing out.

[974] I'll kill you.

[975] You're living the greatest life at the firehouse coming home.

[976] And anyway, that's not what this is about.

[977] Great.

[978] 1981.

[979] Okay.

[980] The Iran hostage crisis finally comes to a close the Yorkshire Ripper is caught post -it notes are invented oh so this is a time where it's like we're not even talking about like digital this or digital that we're talking about posted notes yeah hadn't even been around that was nuts life starting yeah like like pre -posted notes like it's fucking piece of paper with like light glue on the back and you can't even figure that out revolutionary pre -80s people were like look and it's just a little square.

[981] I can do anything I want with it.

[982] Meanwhile, we had just gotten over the invention of whiteout or we're like, I can change pen mistakes.

[983] It's incredible.

[984] Yeah.

[985] And every paper that you wrote it that I wrote in sixth grade weighed six pounds because you had so much white out on it.

[986] Jesus.

[987] And also Jay and I were just talking this morning about how calculators.

[988] And I was like, remember how hilarious it was when you would write boobs by writing 808085 on a calculator?

[989] Or boobless.

[990] or boob list there's a couple things you could do and that to us was like that was Twitter that was the height holding up a calculator that said boobs was like fucking a tweet storm that's right this was full on crow magnin era life the first flight of the space shuttle Columbia happened this was this was when the AIDS virus was identified first identified which I remember seeing on the news which was already killing people but they finally identify they finally fucking said it was happening and then Reagan just made sure that everyone was okay afterwards, right?

[991] No, no, no, no, no. He fucking ignored it for years and years and decades.

[992] Please.

[993] Goodbye.

[994] Sorry, goodbye.

[995] Um, Lady Diana Spencer married Charles of Prince of Wales.

[996] Oh, you can edit that out.

[997] No, no, no, no. I mean, that's, no, you're exactly right.

[998] And that is the world we lived in.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] Also, and I'll just as a side note to Lady Diana Spencer marrying Charles the Prince of Wales, there was such a Lady Die and Prince Charles fever that took over America in 1981 except in my grandma's house and literally if you talked about it if you brought it up if it came on the news she would get so fucking pissed because the Irish were oppressed by the British there is no such thing as the Anglophilia that I fucking in very in betrayal of my grandma Anne you know loving all things British is so offensive to the Irish side of the family because the reason our Irish family emigrated out of Longford and Galway was because the brown coats were the British soldiers were in Ireland beating the shit out of children.

[1001] My grandfather as a child was made to dig ditches for British soldiers instead of going to school.

[1002] Jesus.

[1003] They were, it was crazy and they were awful.

[1004] And so the charm did not come through.

[1005] So I had the weirdest perspective as an 11 year old because everyone's like I want to get my hair cut like lady dye whatever and I was like it's where this is all wrong you shouldn't be doing she's like good people she's breaking commemorative plates in her kitchen floor yeah like literally like spit on the ground type of like oh my god switching off TV it was amazing I love fucking love my grandma and okay anyway so in May of 19 this so we're gonna go back a little bit for the the plans of this Hyatt regency Kansas City um in May of 1978 construction begins um it is in the Crown Center District by Union Station it's going to be 40 stories tall and it's going to feature a multi -story lobby atrium.

[1006] Okay.

[1007] So, like open air.

[1008] And the glass, it's that, all that.

[1009] And again, this was before this in the late 70s, early 80s, all ceilings were much lower than they should have been and all, everything was brown carpet.

[1010] Right.

[1011] It was like the inside of a depressing mall everywhere.

[1012] Yes.

[1013] And it was all, like, the world was closing in on you in, in a fucking earth tones.

[1014] In shades of earth tones.

[1015] It was a bummer.

[1016] And here comes high with the sweeping grand ceiling.

[1017] Look at the sky.

[1018] Oh my God, the plants are growing so tall.

[1019] So yeah, they're trying to be modern and, you know, atrium it up.

[1020] Got it.

[1021] So the engineers design floating walkways that are going to hang from the ceiling within the at the second, third, and fourth floors connecting the north and south wings of the hotel.

[1022] So obviously this thing is massive, and it's basically like it's going to be this futuristic internal.

[1023] And so they have these little bridges running across the open air to like get from this side of the thing to this side.

[1024] You can look down.

[1025] It's beautiful.

[1026] You can look up.

[1027] It's still beautiful.

[1028] You know, that kind of thing.

[1029] Exactly.

[1030] This is your atrium, like, you know, fancy big hotel experience.

[1031] You're exactly right.

[1032] So four -story walkway sits directly above the second story walkway while the third story walkway is offset from them.

[1033] Okay.

[1034] So they basically, you know, doing that, that kind of.

[1035] thing.

[1036] They were playing with levels.

[1037] I'll talk about architecture later.

[1038] I wish you would.

[1039] In 2025.

[1040] So as the building starts, there's delays and setbacks, which happens during all construction.

[1041] But for this one, it was pretty bad.

[1042] Most notably, at one point, a 2 ,700 square foot portion of the roof collapses while they're building it.

[1043] So miraculously, no one was hurt in that accident, but it causes a significant delay in construction.

[1044] So finally, on July 1st, 19, 80, the hotel officially opens.

[1045] So for the next year, everything's regular, business as usual.

[1046] Normal hotel atrium floating walkway shit.

[1047] Got it.

[1048] Then, on the evening of Friday, July 17th, 1981, there's a crowd of roughly 1 ,600 people who have gathered in the lobby atrium area for the tea dance that the hotel put on for guests and whoever wanted to come.

[1049] Like regularly?

[1050] Yes.

[1051] I'm not sure.

[1052] A tea dance.

[1053] So it was basically an evening, early evening, like it was apparently, we looked it up, of course, clicked to that link on Wikipedia where it's like, what the fuck is a tea dance.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] And basically like after, you know, sorry to go back, Grandma Ann to British culture, but after tea, there was a common thing like in tea rooms, they would have dances.

[1056] So it would be like early evening, fancy dress, fancy people, socializing.

[1057] Right.

[1058] He's socializing.

[1059] Got it.

[1060] And that's kind of what this was.

[1061] Which is like, why would you want to speak to anyone else in the hotel room if you're one of those people?

[1062] Right.

[1063] What the fuck?

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] So there's us upstairs in their room safely watching forensic files, loving life.

[1066] But then there's a bunch of people, a ton of fucking people, 1 ,600 people downstairs, having a tea dance, basically pretending to be fancy.

[1067] Being social.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] And being in the new, newly built 40 -story hotel that's like elegance.

[1070] Got it.

[1071] So, and then, of course, the rest of the hotel is business as usual.

[1072] So there's foot traffic and there's people everywhere.

[1073] There's about 40 people standing on or walking across the second -story walkway and about 16 to 20 people on the fourth -story walkway.

[1074] So you have to also imagine that you've gone up and say your rooms are there, whatever, but you can look out over these walkways and see the lobby and see what everyone's doing down there.

[1075] I don't want to.

[1076] You have to.

[1077] Picture it now.

[1078] Look at it.

[1079] Bring yourself.

[1080] In your mind's eye, hear the music.

[1081] It's the last place you'd ever think anything about having, a tea dance.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] Suddenly at 7 .05 p .m. Patrons of the hotel, and this is so sickening.

[1084] Oh, I hate it.

[1085] Hear a popping noises ring out from the fourth -story walkway.

[1086] The walkway itself drops several inches, pauses for a moment, and then collapses completely onto the second -story walkway that sits below it, and upon impact, the four -story takes the second story walkway out with it and both of them come crashing down onto the tea dance and the lobby below how long of a period was it the seconds that that whole thing happened right it was basically like this had been well i'll tell you a little bit about it but yes it was like and then crash this is why i don't ever want to leave the house i know and these stories don't help so keep going so here we go so lock in and feel this fear and then let it go later Okay, so, of course, the people in the lobby, the people at this fucking tea dance are immediately buried in a massive pile of steel, concrete, and glass.

[1087] So it's bad news, obviously.

[1088] Emergency vehicles arrive on the scene, firefighters, and this is bad too.

[1089] The firefighters use their jacks to lift and remove the rubble and to rescue people, but of course, there's so much rubble and it's so heavy because there's so much steel.

[1090] They have to get local construction companies to come and bring their own jacks, concrete saws, jack hammers, torches, generators, even cranes to get in and start lifting this rubble off of survivors.

[1091] Any type of machinery that would help that rescue mission got brought in.

[1092] So everybody just like, it was like the call went out.

[1093] I'm picturing the, remember the, was it 94 earthquake when the twin bridges?

[1094] In the Bay Area?

[1095] At the Bay Area double -story bridges.

[1096] What was that called?

[1097] That was the 89 earthquake.

[1098] Okay, thank you.

[1099] And the Bay Bridge collapsed, the top layer collapsed onto the bottom layer.

[1100] Right.

[1101] And I just remember watching the news and, ugh, horrifying.

[1102] Horrifying.

[1103] Yes.

[1104] I was nine and I watched the news for the rest of the fucking.

[1105] Why wouldn't a nine -year -old be watching the nightly news?

[1106] Right.

[1107] Of course you were.

[1108] Also, if you haven't, just to slightly silver line that one, having nothing to do with the tragedy of that.

[1109] But the new Bay Bridge is.

[1110] so beautiful and amazing to drive over, if you hadn't had the chance, the top level as you're going from the Berkeley side into San Francisco has these spanners.

[1111] Like, it is so beautiful and amazing to drive over now.

[1112] Every time I do it, I love it.

[1113] Who knew Karen was a bridgehead?

[1114] I'm kind of into bridges and connecting with people.

[1115] What?

[1116] Who?

[1117] What?

[1118] Who is that?

[1119] Oh, no. Okay.

[1120] So the chief of Kansas City's emergency medical system was named Dr. Joseph I'm going to say whackerly.

[1121] Great.

[1122] Or wakerly.

[1123] Okay.

[1124] Thank you for my permission.

[1125] He leads the search and rescue missions.

[1126] So at his direction, first responders, they set up a morgue in the exhibition area of the hotel on the ground floor, basically, that's right by there.

[1127] They have to use the hotel's driveway and front lawn as the triage centers.

[1128] That's how many people have been injured or killed.

[1129] So the victims with the most severe injuries, obviously, are treated first.

[1130] first, anyone who can still walk is told to just get off the site immediately, like, just taken away.

[1131] Wow.

[1132] So the triage was basically dedicated to the very, very wounded or mortally wounded.

[1133] And that was basically just they needed people out to minimize the chaos.

[1134] Chaos.

[1135] Okay.

[1136] So there are living people buried in the rubble, obviously.

[1137] And the first responders have to dig down to them.

[1138] And in doing so, they come upon dead.

[1139] bodies that are blocking the way.

[1140] So these first responders at certain points, some of them were forced to dismember dead bodies to get to trapped survivors underneath.

[1141] That's not something you get passed in the weeks and months after this.

[1142] If you're the first responders, I mean.

[1143] No. You know?

[1144] Absolutely not.

[1145] No. And that's part of the risk and that's part of the sacrifice that's first responders make.

[1146] It's like what we're talking about before where you see you're the person that gets called when the worst thing happens.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] That takes a toll on anybody.

[1149] Totally.

[1150] And that's why, like, I think I hear often ambulance drivers do it for like a certain amount of time and then they have to get out.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] Because you can't just keep taking that on.

[1153] No. That's, you know, that's really hard.

[1154] So, so yes.

[1155] And this is just like, yeah, it's the worst case scenario.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] Also, inside the hotel, the visibility is terrible.

[1158] Right.

[1159] Because there's debris and dust in the air.

[1160] And then also the power got shut off.

[1161] so that there wouldn't be electrical fires.

[1162] Oh, right.

[1163] So then also, the emergency sprinkler system is on.

[1164] Shit.

[1165] Because it's been triggered and they can't turn it off.

[1166] So the lobby starts to flood.

[1167] No. During this fucking rescue.

[1168] No. So it's fucking like the fucking Poseidon adventure.

[1169] Dude.

[1170] I don't need to say fucking that much, but it's so upsetting.

[1171] I do.

[1172] So you do and I do.

[1173] Okay, so now the people who are alive under the rubble are at risk of drowning on top of fucking everything else.

[1174] There is a survivor named Mark Williams who tells a story about being trapped under a beam.

[1175] Both his legs have been dislocated.

[1176] And the water came up to the point where he almost drowned.

[1177] They saved him right in time.

[1178] He was like on the verge of drowning and then they finally got to him and got him out.

[1179] Oh, my God.

[1180] How horrible is that?

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] This rest, the entire rescue operation lasts 14 hours.

[1183] 29 people are rescued from the debris, but by the end of it all, 114 people are pronounced dead with an additional 219 people injured.

[1184] Oh my God, that's so many people.

[1185] It's so many people.

[1186] But then, if you think about the fact that there were almost 2 ,000 people in that lobby.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] Because 1 ,600 were at the tea dance, but like, you know, then there's a bunch of other people.

[1189] So, obviously, it's so many people and it's horrifying, but it could have been worse.

[1190] Right.

[1191] I guess you could always say that.

[1192] Okay, so in the wake of the collapse, the local newspaper, the Kansas City Star, hires an architectural engineer named Wayne G. Lishka.

[1193] Wayne.

[1194] To investigate what went wrong.

[1195] Yes.

[1196] So three days later, on July 20, 1981, he finds, Wayne finds the original design of the walkways, and he sees that they were changed during construction.

[1197] The architectural firm was called Jack D. Gillum and Associates.

[1198] I almost didn't name them because it's such a terrible thing, but this is essentially what happened.

[1199] Because it's human error, but also nothing is, it's not, it's not because people were purposely, right.

[1200] It wasn't, yeah.

[1201] Okay, so that architectural firm drew up the original designs for the walkways.

[1202] They planned for there to be three pairs of steel tie rods running straight, down from the ceiling through both the fourth and second floor walkways.

[1203] So these six rods in total would secure both of the walkways to the ceilings.

[1204] The rods would then be secured by nuts and then I wrote and perhaps bolts because there's nothing funny about the story.

[1205] So the steel company who manufactured those rods was called Haven Steel Company.

[1206] They argued this design wouldn't work.

[1207] They said that in order to fasten nuts onto the rods to hold the fourth floor walkway in place, the entire length of the rod from the fourth floor down would have to be threaded.

[1208] So you know how, like, when you put a bolt on a screw, the whole thing would have to be that way, they were saying, because any slight chink in the threading would make it impossible to screw the nut all the way up from the bottom of the rod to the fourth floor walkway.

[1209] It would be too delicate to execute.

[1210] Okay.

[1211] Okay, so Haven Steel Company's solution was instead to have two sets of six rods.

[1212] The first set would run from the ceiling to the fourth floor walkway.

[1213] and then would be fastened to the walkway with nuts, and then the second set of rods would run from the fourth floor walkway down to the second floor walkway fastened by nuts.

[1214] The problem with this alternate plan is instead of having the ceiling supporting both sets of walkways, you now have the ceiling supporting the fourth floor walkway and the fourth floor walkway supporting the second floor walkway.

[1215] So it's like, not that you need this explained, but it helped me. it's like having two mountain climbers who are repelling down of the mountain face and instead of having both of them have their things planted on top of the cliff going down it's one guy has it coming down and then the second climber is attached to the first climber.

[1216] Right, so if one thing goes wrong, they're both fucked.

[1217] Right, and you can't with that kind of like gravity pull it's a single attachment instill, you know what I mean?

[1218] They're too dependent, interdependent on each other.

[1219] Got it.

[1220] I am both an architect and a steel expert.

[1221] So to make matters worse, the original design that the architecture firm drew up was already bad because it would have only held 60 % of the minimum load required by Kansas City building code.

[1222] So there was a code issue in the design.

[1223] But under the new design plan offered by the Haven Steel Company, the weight bearing capacity dropped to 30 % of the required minimum.

[1224] So that change of going, oh, we'll just hang the one from the other, made it even work.

[1225] Because it didn't have its own support.

[1226] right exactly even less secure got it right thank you so um also on top of that all the bolts were placed directly through the welded joints in the box beams this is detail but the joints are the weakest part of the beam so that's basically where the beams bend or like come together got it so um they put all those that's where they attached everything which is the weakest part of the beam not the middle the strongest part of right right it's like they they they're They, they, yeah.

[1227] So, like, if that had been in the middle, if those joints had failed, it wouldn't have been as disastrous if they were in the correct place to hold everything up.

[1228] Right, because it's like the strength of the beam is in the middle of the beam, not in the ends.

[1229] Oh, I see.

[1230] Yeah, so the middle has no support.

[1231] Right.

[1232] Got it.

[1233] So, I'm now an architect.

[1234] I mean, this is, this is so much bullshitting from me. But I think I get it.

[1235] I'm fascinated by this.

[1236] I think I get it.

[1237] And there's good pictures.

[1238] Obviously, Wikipedia is, um, uh, the main.

[1239] Oh, yeah.

[1240] Main research, we can say it at the end.

[1241] Okay.

[1242] But they have pictures on there showing it.

[1243] So it's much easier to visualize, obviously, looking at a picture.

[1244] Yeah.

[1245] Visualizing a picture.

[1246] When did I become like a weird liar?

[1247] That's what this feels like.

[1248] Like I'm lying my way through this.

[1249] Okay.

[1250] So the issue ultimately becomes because of a lack of communication between those two companies, the steel company and the architect.

[1251] Right.

[1252] So the initial plans laid out by the architects were only meant to be preliminary sketches but they were taken by the Haven Steel Corporation to be the final design and when Havens proposed the new bolt fix to put it out on the joints no one looked into whether or not that would work.

[1253] The architects didn't, nobody did.

[1254] They just went by what they already had which wasn't the final design.

[1255] They were like, we think it would work better out here.

[1256] The end the head engineer at the architecture firm was extremely busy and so assigned supervision of this build to an associate engineer.

[1257] And the execs at the steel company pitched their design revision over the phone, and the associate engineer approved it verbally.

[1258] And now I go on to my rant about how much I hate conference calls and how it doesn't work.

[1259] Yeah.

[1260] Have every meeting face to face that you can.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] Because nobody pays attention on the phone.

[1263] You don't want to be on that call anyway.

[1264] No. Of course you're playing solitaire.

[1265] while everyone's having this conversation.

[1266] I'm looking at Instagram cats.

[1267] Or it's like reading other emails.

[1268] Yeah.

[1269] It's, we need to call and end to conference calls, Joe Schwartz, right now.

[1270] Okay.

[1271] When investigators later ask the associate engineer why he approved the revised plan, he says he believed a written request would then be filed after the phone call.

[1272] Basically, everyone thought there was checks and balances systems in place that were not there.

[1273] Like a verbal okay does not mean start construction.

[1274] Exactly.

[1275] It's kind of like me where you get upset with me when I do this.

[1276] Like, yep, sure, that sounds good.

[1277] And I'm like, I'm going to fucking say no to this later.

[1278] And then you're like, people think you mean yes.

[1279] I'm like, no, I can say no to this later.

[1280] I'm being nice on the conference call because I want to get off.

[1281] Right, exactly.

[1282] It's conference call politics that we all get sucked into it.

[1283] Sure, sounds great.

[1284] Send it over.

[1285] And I'm like, no, don't push that rock down the hill.

[1286] Now it's going to be a boulder.

[1287] Okay.

[1288] A lot of PATSD from producing television.

[1289] Okay, so essentially with the cause of the collapse determined the engineers at Gilliman Associates who approved the project were all found responsible of gross negligence, misconduct, unprofessional conduct in the practice of engineering by the Missouri Board of Architects Professional Engineers and Land Surveyor.

[1290] So everyone was mad at them.

[1291] All the fucking guys that wear khakis and put their hands on their hips and look into the distance with a flat hand above their eyes were pissed.

[1292] Hard hats everywhere.

[1293] Everywhere.

[1294] Smash to the ground.

[1295] Stomped with large wonderful.

[1296] Timberland booth.

[1297] So they're charged with, they're initially charged with criminal charges, but they're eventually dropped.

[1298] Instead, they just all lost their engineering licenses.

[1299] So, of course, obviously people had to pay.

[1300] And, I mean, like, things needed to happen and change.

[1301] The architecture company is also cleared of criminal negligence, but they lose their engineering license can no longer operate as an engineering company in Missouri or Kansas.

[1302] The victims and their families are awarded, a total of about $140 million in judgments and settlements, which is almost $400 million today.

[1303] Good.

[1304] Sometimes we hear these settlements and you're like, it's not even a million dollars for all the victims' families.

[1305] And it's fucking ridiculous.

[1306] No, I think especially because this was just, it was truly gross negligence where it's just like there's no arguing.

[1307] I bet you both of those companies didn't even argue.

[1308] It's just like, this is terrible.

[1309] The problem is several rescuers suffered considerable PTSD.

[1310] because of what they had to experience in those rescues.

[1311] And they actually formed, which I love this so much, they had to later rely upon each other to form an informal support group to get through it, which is so beautiful because, of course, that's such a specific thing to need support for.

[1312] You're not going to get that from just a normal, oh, I've been through something hard or whatever.

[1313] It's like that is a very specific thing that kind of rescue, you know, first responder PTSD.

[1314] And I bet, you know, those, they're probably taught to, like, man up or whatever and, like, fucking deal with it and don't reach out.

[1315] And the fact that not just one person, but multiple people reached out to be like, I'm not okay and I need help from this.

[1316] Yes.

[1317] It's just, it's a lesson to all of us.

[1318] It is.

[1319] And the fact that it happened in 1981, back when if you were in therapy, you were out of your fucking mind.

[1320] Like, my mom started going to therapy when I was in junior high and I was like, uh -oh.

[1321] Like, oh, are we going to like, Is it all falling apart now?

[1322] Of course, I wanted it to.

[1323] Chaos.

[1324] Meanwhile, she was just in like Al -Anon, essentially.

[1325] She started going to Al -Anon to be like, it is bad when both your parents are alcoholics, right?

[1326] Oh, that affected me. That makes sense.

[1327] And I'm a psychiatric nurse, and this sucks.

[1328] Yes.

[1329] And it's why I'm a psychiatric nurse.

[1330] So, yeah, the beautiful part is that the first responders who went through it came together.

[1331] The terrible part is there is a job.

[1332] Hammer operator named Bill Allman who died by suicide because of the experiences that he had in this.

[1333] So it is a true and total tragedy all the way around.

[1334] Since then, this hotel has been renovated, rebranded several times.

[1335] The latest was a $13 million renovation.

[1336] It's now a Sheraton.

[1337] We didn't stay there when we were in St. Louis, did we?

[1338] We could have.

[1339] It was completed in 2012.

[1340] I mean, but here's the weirdest part And Stephen correct my I was going to say correct my Spanish Correct my math if I'm wrong But it's been almost 40 years since this happened 40 years C 45 probably Yeah, how is it?

[1341] Wait I was born in 80 No, I was born in 80 and I'm 38 Do the math.

[1342] So minus one So it's been 37 years It's been 37 years How is that happened?

[1343] Real.

[1344] God, that's crazy So, oh, I just read the last line.

[1345] And so that is the horrifying and terrifying story of the Kansas City Hyatt Walkway collapse of 1981.

[1346] Amazing.

[1347] Not so, right?

[1348] Good job.

[1349] Thank you.

[1350] No, that was, yeah, I have an anxiety disorder.

[1351] And I don't like leaving the house because so many bad things can happen when you do that.

[1352] It's true.

[1353] And that's one of them.

[1354] That's one of them.

[1355] But also, and I know we talk about stuff like this a lot.

[1356] But also, lots of great things can happen.

[1357] So I think when we dedicate, because we often talk about like why is, why does this relieve our anxiety?

[1358] Why does this make us feel better?

[1359] And it's because we can all sit here and go, this happened.

[1360] It doesn't happen every day.

[1361] It doesn't happen every year.

[1362] It fucking almost never happens, but it did.

[1363] So like, you can get that feeling of like, but now I'm aware.

[1364] So I'm not walking out into this mystery world.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] Like ignorant.

[1367] I know a little something.

[1368] Yeah, being aware that there's chaos in the world doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing.

[1369] It can just be that you, you know, walk around, walk around.

[1370] You walk along.

[1371] It could just be that you walk around with an awareness and maybe a little anxiety, but also, you know.

[1372] But then there's also the thing of, then you can free up your mind to then focus on the good things that happen when you walk out your door.

[1373] Okay.

[1374] Because I have to remind myself of this a lot where it's like, if you stay in this house, the same thing's going to happen.

[1375] You know what's going to happen in this house.

[1376] You have to get out and be around people and allow.

[1377] good things to happen so that that is the thing that comes to mind when you look at the Hyatt Hotel and you're like great things happen in there it's not just the disasters and the horror things there's room service too oh my god forensic files is never not on that's a miracle yeah that's a good point to remember is that good things happen to when you leave the house just as often if not more that's true you just have to focus you have to teach yourself to notice it and pay it and give it as much credence as you do your fears.

[1378] Okay.

[1379] Hey, speaking of...

[1380] I'm pointing at you, but I mean me. Okay.

[1381] I'm pointing at me and I mean me too.

[1382] Hey, let's...

[1383] Is anyone going to point at me?

[1384] Let's name one of those good things, shall we?

[1385] Let's do it.

[1386] It's fucking hooray time.

[1387] Do you want to go first?

[1388] I want to go first?

[1389] You do it.

[1390] Okay.

[1391] So there's this thing called PRP.

[1392] It's platelet -rich plasma where they take your blood and put it in a centrifuge and separate the good stuff and then...

[1393] platelets.

[1394] And then it inject it into a painful spot in your body, same by lower back that is very fucked up with degenerative disc bullshit.

[1395] And that platelet rich plasma is supposed to heal that area.

[1396] They used it for like a lot of that's like tennis elbow and bullshit like wristy stuff.

[1397] Yeah.

[1398] So I got that this week.

[1399] Oh yeah?

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] And it's going to take a couple weeks to know if it works, but I'm really fucking hopeful.

[1402] There was a murderino who worked in the office.

[1403] So that was nice.

[1404] And she was very sweet.

[1405] She was at our Halloween show.

[1406] Melissa, what's up?

[1407] Yeah, so I'm putting it out there because I really want it to work and I'm hopeful that it will.

[1408] That's great.

[1409] It'd be nice not to have back pain all the time anymore.

[1410] That's right.

[1411] Great.

[1412] What's yours?

[1413] Are you going to cry?

[1414] No. But if I were to, I would be fine with it.

[1415] Well, I guess I will say this.

[1416] This is like from today.

[1417] And I know I talk about my therapist, like I, she's my, uh, She's my fucking hooray a lot.

[1418] It's a very important relationship in our lives.

[1419] It is and it also is just this, I feel like there's this pipeline of information that I get from her.

[1420] Like all the things I was just saying to you is fucking straight out of her mouth that I've just gone, oh yeah, like this idea that you're this way, you're just a way.

[1421] And that's your fucking fault.

[1422] And like too bad for you or whatever is like you, one of the things I love about therapy is there's a person there going, excuse me, I just have a quick argument for that.

[1423] And so whatever thing I put on the table, you know, it's just a person going and she, you know, we've talked about like it's that thing of when you're in a trauma response and you can't tell because you just think you're, you just think you're trying to deal with the shit that's going on.

[1424] Just think you're responding.

[1425] Right.

[1426] And we were talking about the voice that comes up when you're experiencing like, say, rejection or, you know, whatever some negative thing.

[1427] And I have this because she, okay, I've talked about this, but it's the rule of six where you're the thing that you're, the thing that you.

[1428] you fear you think is happening and that's your forearm right but then your open hand is the five other possibilities that could be happening right and you the practice is to go through and just be like what else could it be besides this thing i've decided yeah and uh we were taught i said you know that's all well and good we've you've been telling me to do this for about 15 years yeah but there's a voice in my head that i like like i believe is like the realist who's always like well not's fine but the truth is yeah you're just gross you know the truth can stop being sad, stop being pathetic, you're gross.

[1429] It seems to be what that voice always says.

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] And the voice says it nicely, like warmly.

[1432] It's okay, you're just a piece of shit.

[1433] Yeah.

[1434] And you know it too and it's fine.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] So it's not like you can be like, you're mean.

[1437] No, no, no. It's like, it's almost like, oh, this close friend that's just letting me know the reality of it.

[1438] And so then to me, and she and I talked about this too is like, you're running through the other scenarios seems pathetic and immature to me. It seems like what a sad person would do.

[1439] when I'm just like, look, I'm a realist.

[1440] I get it.

[1441] I'm just gross.

[1442] Whatever.

[1443] And so she said this thing.

[1444] She goes, no, no, no. I have that voice too.

[1445] And then she threw her head back and smiled and goes, but I'm on to her.

[1446] I'm on to her.

[1447] And I was just like, you are the best, like, because she's not saying from up here, here's your diagnosis and here's what you need to do.

[1448] She's going, this is the human fucking condition.

[1449] This is what we do to ourselves.

[1450] We, and we're doing it because we think it's going to keep us safe and secure.

[1451] Because and also because it's worked at some point in your life.

[1452] Right.

[1453] And it's done what you needed it to do at some point in your life.

[1454] Yes.

[1455] And now you're an adult and you're in different circumstances and it's the thing you know how to do so you continue to do it.

[1456] I do it too.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] You continue to do it because it's always worked and maybe there's a different way.

[1459] And I love that she was like, here's, let me show you an example.

[1460] It's not that you stop doing that period.

[1461] Karen, won't you learn how to fucking do this?

[1462] Right.

[1463] It's no, I'm paying attention and I can tell that that's not the right response.

[1464] Like, that's not the response that feels good to me. Right.

[1465] That's a different fucking response.

[1466] It's like she, the other way she, the metaphor she used is like, you know, in a brilliant mind, when he, he finally caught on that he, have we talked about this?

[1467] I've never seen it.

[1468] Oh, it's really good, but he's, he has schizophrenia, but he's also this brilliant mathematician.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] And when he finally catches on that he's having these, um, not hallucinations, but he's in basically having his like psychotic episode is all the people.

[1471] that aren't really there that he thinks are there they never age and he ages and he finally at the end of the movie is like how come you're not as old as I am and then the person disappears Oh you just spoiled it Guess what You had fucking 10 years to watch that movie It's fair I did Oh I spoiled it for you I'm sorry Is that a surprise Well it no Chris Willis You see it happening Where you know that he's in He's in that Okay Bruce Willis is dead He's dead the whole time But I'm Anyway, it's that thing where, like, when you're, when things feel dire, all of this is to say, when things feel dire and black and white and my life is on the line.

[1472] Everything's on the line.

[1473] If one move happens, this is going to be, if Georgia says yes on the phone, that's what we're going to have to do.

[1474] The end, I can't take it back.

[1475] There's nothing.

[1476] And I panic.

[1477] And it's that thing of like, you have to go, or nothing happens.

[1478] And everyone knows that this is all conversation and it's no big deal.

[1479] And you can like walk it backwards.

[1480] Or if I do is fuck something up.

[1481] Maybe it can be corrected at some point.

[1482] It's not like, I didn't sign anything.

[1483] Your honor.

[1484] Show me my signature.

[1485] Prove it.

[1486] Prove I fucking said it.

[1487] And then they're playing tapes back from conference call.

[1488] Here's you.

[1489] Sorry, we already had it.

[1490] So, I mean, whatever.

[1491] It's like perspective, but it's like the idea that we can even be having that conversation.

[1492] At this point, when I've lived in basically trauma pocket panic mode for like so long.

[1493] Yeah.

[1494] That fucking hooray for perspective, I guess.

[1495] I love that.

[1496] is what I'm trying to say.

[1497] I'm going to, I'm going to use it too.

[1498] I'm going to steal your fucking hooray, and I'm going to try to do it.

[1499] I mean, that's the name.

[1500] I wish you could see Karen.

[1501] She's grabbing her wrist, her like forearm.

[1502] That's what she does every time.

[1503] Push her five hands up.

[1504] That's the new murderino salute.

[1505] Five fingers.

[1506] It's the rule of six.

[1507] Grab your forearm and spread your hand like it's a high five.

[1508] Yeah.

[1509] That you're keeping yourself from giving another person.

[1510] But grip really hard because this is difficult.

[1511] Just really hard.

[1512] It's really hard.

[1513] Strangle that first.

[1514] thing that you assume and really try to get those five other fingers going.

[1515] And they count five other options.

[1516] I love it.

[1517] It's really hard.

[1518] All right.

[1519] Thanks for listening, you guys.

[1520] Yeah, thanks for being here with us.

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] We hope you can use some of our bullshit to help your bullshit.

[1523] And don't be afraid to send your bullshit into us and let us have yours at my favorite murder.

[1524] Dot blogspot .org.

[1525] Right?

[1526] No. No?

[1527] please go look at our new website at my favorite murder .com.

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] It's pretty good.

[1530] Thanks for, thanks for sticking with us.

[1531] Stay sexy.

[1532] And don't get murdered.

[1533] Goodbye.

[1534] Elvis, you want a cookie?

[1535] Ah, ha, ha.