Keri Russell

[0] Welcome to the program called Armchair Expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm Monica Padman.

[3] And today we have Carrie Russell.

[4] Felicity.

[5] Felicity, the Americans, Waitress, Mission Impossible 3, and soon she will be in Star Wars, The Rise of Skywalker.

[6] God, is that a good sound effect.

[7] Wow.

[8] Listen, she is a powerhouse on the Americans.

[9] She is.

[10] She's unbelievable.

[11] I can't speak to Felicity because I simply didn't see it, but, but boy, what a, what a beautiful look.

[12] People loved Felicity.

[13] Yes, you loved Felicity.

[14] Well, I also didn't really watch it.

[15] Yeah, okay.

[16] And Carrie's just a cool down -to -earth gal, isn't she?

[17] Very, yes.

[18] I loved her, and you will too.

[19] Please enjoy Carrie Russell.

[20] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[21] Now, join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[22] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[23] He's an object to.

[24] He's an ultra next guy.

[25] You vacillate, though, between looks, because I have over the years, like, recommitted to many different looks.

[26] Of course.

[27] Within a week, I've got, like, four or five styles I'm juggling.

[28] And I can't tell which one's working best for me. me. And I'm relying on Monica largely and my wife.

[29] I think you have good style.

[30] But do you have like a flare for many different kinds?

[31] Like sometimes I want to look like a proper hillbilly.

[32] Sometimes I want to look like a messy GQ guy and I am very stylish, but you have to like really figure that out when you look at me. Yeah.

[33] Like can I just say one thing?

[34] This is a little much.

[35] Like these things didn't happen as one outfit, but in its totality before I, like, left the door.

[36] I looked in the mirror and I was like, Carrie's going to think you're going for like a, I don't know, American Eagle Outfitter magazine or something.

[37] I know Red Wings.

[38] Those are Red Wing books.

[39] I know Red Wings.

[40] Okay.

[41] I was married to a carpenter, okay?

[42] Oh, oh, yes, yes.

[43] On the internet, it was kind of elevated to contractor, but he did everything.

[44] Well, I mean, that's the nicer term, but, you know, I think carpenter is cooler than California.

[45] Well, Jesus.

[46] Yeah, well, I'll remember him.

[47] He was very famous.

[48] He was pretty great.

[49] Yeah.

[50] By the way, we were just talking the other day about the real history of the real man, Jesus, and we were asking really weird questions.

[51] Like, did he have to go to the bathroom?

[52] Did he fart?

[53] These kind of things.

[54] Potentially sacrilegious things.

[55] Okay.

[56] But what we've glazed right over is knowing that he's a carpenter, clearly some people lived in homes built by Jesus.

[57] That's true.

[58] And if you think about the value that a Frank Lloyd Wright house fetches, I have to imagine.

[59] Holy house.

[60] Holy house.

[61] It was something erected by the Lord that's still standing?

[62] I know.

[63] Can you put a price on that, Carrie?

[64] They always said he was a carpenter, but that kind of doesn't fit to him, right?

[65] Well, it's hard to imagine him with the tool belt on.

[66] Yeah, you don't really think of him as being very muscular.

[67] Well, he was cut.

[68] Why?

[69] Oh, like on the cross, he's very spout.

[70] Yeah.

[71] Yeah, he was ripped.

[72] On the cross.

[73] Yeah.

[74] But I think everyone that then was ripped.

[75] There just wasn't enough calories to not be ripped.

[76] Exactly.

[77] Right?

[78] Yeah, you didn't get a lot of twink.

[79] keys.

[80] No. No, there were, yeah.

[81] You had like some ripe fruit for like three weeks a year and you ate as much as you could of it.

[82] Yeah, but wasn't it in, um, it was warmer there.

[83] Mm -hmm.

[84] Yeah, in the Mediterranean.

[85] Okay, so maybe they have fresh fruit like six weeks a year.

[86] I don't know.

[87] Oh, yeah.

[88] Pescara.

[89] Yeah, yeah.

[90] Yeah, they're eating very healthily.

[91] Yeah.

[92] I want to bring people up to speed on our friendship.

[93] First of all, there's two parties a year in, in Hollywood land.

[94] One is the night before the Oscars party and one is like the night before the Emmys party.

[95] I believe that it was the latter.

[96] Correct.

[97] So I went one year and you were there because you and Arnett had a show together.

[98] For half a second.

[99] Fox, I believe.

[100] Mitch Hurwitz created program.

[101] Mitch Hurwitz, yeah.

[102] And you were chumming around with Will and we're old friends.

[103] And then you and I got to talking.

[104] And I was really dying to find out of what the reality of this kind of hometown lore about you that I had, that I grew up with.

[105] I wanted to know if it checked out.

[106] And here we go, Monica.

[107] Are you right?

[108] One of my best friends growing up, Colin Garlack, who you've heard me talk about.

[109] Never.

[110] Best guitar player ever met my life, just a virtuoso.

[111] He had a cousin, Tony, who at a young age, somehow got discovered and was on the all -new Mickey Mouse Club.

[112] Okay.

[113] You can't imagine what a shockwave this was through our hometown.

[114] Cutting a big time.

[115] That is big time.

[116] Ryan Gosling, Britney Spears, Organified.

[117] We're going to get that these are.

[118] These are all her cohorts.

[119] So, but anyways, Carrie and Tony were lovers for quite some time.

[120] Oh, wow.

[121] Lovers.

[122] Of the.

[123] That's how I describe them.

[124] Yeah.

[125] Lucky duh.

[126] Like the cover of a romance novel lovers.

[127] Very, very.

[128] Windswept.

[129] Wait, how old was everybody?

[130] Seven.

[131] Starting at what age?

[132] I started at 15.

[133] Oh, okay.

[134] On the program.

[135] 17 to 17.

[136] But there were, I think it was 12 to 18.

[137] Got it.

[138] There were 19 of us.

[139] Wow.

[140] And I want to hear.

[141] about the love affair because it's going to be a great story.

[142] But mostly I just at this party, I was like, odds are this has been overinflated in my hometown and that you guys may be dated for a week or two or something.

[143] But I'm just going to find out.

[144] I said, do you happen to remember Tony Luca and his cousin Colin?

[145] And she goes, oh my God, yes, I love them.

[146] I used to go to Michigan all the time.

[147] All the time.

[148] And I just got, well, hey, I got really excited.

[149] And then you seem to have a real sweet spot from Michigan in your eyes.

[150] I have such a sweet spot for Michigan.

[151] Michigan.

[152] Before this meeting, I met your mom.

[153] Oh, at like Sundance?

[154] Yes.

[155] Oh, my goodness.

[156] And you remember that?

[157] And she told me all about you.

[158] Oh, I've heard this for many people since.

[159] Yeah, but I loved her because I had such a connection with Michigan.

[160] Oh, right.

[161] And so we talked about that, I think.

[162] Were you there in Sundance for waitress?

[163] No, I think it was even before.

[164] The unfortunate thing is I started this business really young.

[165] Yeah.

[166] And so before kind of 30, it's all a blur.

[167] You're just like, Hmm, who am I going to make out with?

[168] Sure.

[169] Oh, I don't remember adults.

[170] Do you know what I mean?

[171] Yeah.

[172] But they remember you because you were a kid.

[173] Yeah.

[174] All those stories are sort of like, where was I?

[175] I don't know.

[176] But I think it was, even before Waitress, I think it was the upside of anger.

[177] Like this tiny little movie I did.

[178] Oh, sure, sure.

[179] Mike Binder.

[180] Mike Binder, who I love.

[181] Mike Binder.

[182] Nice human being.

[183] You know what's funny is we live in an era where I was like, oh, she worked with Mike Binder when I was reading about you today.

[184] And I'm like, I love Mike Binder.

[185] And I was kind of like.

[186] you know, it's now dicey to ask anyone like, hey, how was your experience with, I mean, I've never heard that, but I'm half prepared at all times.

[187] Well, it's just like who we don't know.

[188] So often I'll be like, oh, you worked with my hero, blah, blah, blah.

[189] And the actress would go like, yeah, yeah, not a great dude.

[190] You never know.

[191] It's an interesting time.

[192] I mean, which we had this discussion as I was changing my clothes.

[193] I let him watch me. I asked him to watch me. I was like, no, no, stay him, stay in.

[194] This will be fine.

[195] This will be fine.

[196] Don't, no, no, don't talk.

[197] Stay in.

[198] Oh, my goodness.

[199] But, you know, speaking of that, actually, we have this joke, which I find hilarious for women and for men.

[200] You know, when all that stuff comes out about dudes like masturbating in front of girls or whatever.

[201] Sure.

[202] It's amazing when you flip it, right?

[203] So I've been in a car riding around to a different location with people I was working with.

[204] And I was like, it would be like me going into my trailer and be like, Like, no, no, Rob, come here, come here for a minute.

[205] No, stay.

[206] And me fingering myself.

[207] I'm going, Rob, watch this.

[208] Yeah.

[209] Rob, don't look away.

[210] Look at this.

[211] Watch this.

[212] And I'm going, oh, okay.

[213] Yeah.

[214] But there is an inherent problem in this, though.

[215] It's so.

[216] Rob would be so excited.

[217] It's so asymmetrical.

[218] Yes, I'd harken to guess that 96 % of guys would love to witness this.

[219] But like, what girl would do that?

[220] No one.

[221] No girls would like to take down her pants and be like, Dude, check this out.

[222] Well, can I tell...

[223] Lock the door.

[224] You can't leave.

[225] I can't leave for a second.

[226] I can't imagine a world in which I would walk and be a total stranger and I'm like, fuck me now.

[227] Yes, it ends up having sex with them.

[228] You would never impulse by, right?

[229] You don't impulse by it.

[230] Yeah, this is a power thing.

[231] This is a...

[232] Yes, it is, actually.

[233] I think it's actually a mechanical thing.

[234] Oh, tell me. I think it's a mechanical thing, which is that women have to take something in.

[235] to their body and men are just putting out and I think it's a it's a physical thing you know you have to trust this person exactly enough yeah but that's what I mean by power like okay you do have to relinquish some power to the man correct the man never has to do that well do you know Dan Savage okay so he drew up when we were talking to him he he perfectly illustrated this issue he cites this very famous study where they ask college age kids both women and men, hey, they would send out an attractive, you know, someone of the opposite sex and say, would you like to have sex right now?

[236] And basically the guys said yes, like 90 % of the time and the girls never said yes.

[237] So the conclusion at that time was, oh, just guys are hornier, right?

[238] But there was a follow -up study, a secondary study more recent where they controlled for everything.

[239] So they controlled for safety.

[240] There was going to be a room.

[241] I forget how they did that were.

[242] It was in her same apartment building and it was controlled.

[243] And there was going to be no one to find out so there'd be no slut shaming like they control for all the variables that are threatening to women because we live in a very violent society towards women and once those were taken off the table women said yes much more frequently isn't that interesting it makes sense yeah it's not that women don't want to have sex no it's just there's a there's more of a fear maybe it's a little more involved yeah complicated yeah yeah but but even with even though i agree with that study and his point ultimately i also on top of that thing do are much more willing to just fuck anything.

[244] Yes.

[245] Even if they felt not so safe.

[246] We have a friend who's on Grindr who enters a lot of not safe situations where we're both like, wow, that's okay.

[247] You walked in there as three guys.

[248] Right.

[249] One guy was in a, you know, it's a little, for me, a little scary.

[250] Well, dude on dude is just an easier exchange.

[251] Bottom line.

[252] Sure.

[253] Bottom line.

[254] I remember being with people I loved in London and I was like, how'd you guys meet?

[255] And they've been together forever.

[256] and they're like, just saw them on the street.

[257] Oh.

[258] No words, just met up and hooked up.

[259] Like, we don't do that as much.

[260] I mean, people do do it.

[261] I, like, there are an occasional.

[262] Okay, so back to Michigan.

[263] So I was very delighted to see that you both remembered, cherished, and all of it was as sensational as I had hoped in my head.

[264] And then on top of that, both Kristen and I, independently when we got in the car, we were like, boy, that.

[265] Carrie is a very shiny human being, isn't she?

[266] She is very charismatic and attractive.

[267] We were both very, very attracted to you.

[268] I mean, not in a gross way.

[269] But we had a long chat about just how damn likable you were and how infectious you were.

[270] That is so nice.

[271] I am not shiny at all.

[272] You are, but continue.

[273] I'm incredibly nervous at those things.

[274] And in fact, I think I had a martini or something.

[275] I never drink anything other than beer and wine.

[276] And I think I was like, I'm not.

[277] have a martini.

[278] And I think it made me more talkative.

[279] But I remember talking to you guys and you were so warm.

[280] But I remember I brought up this story that I replayed later over and over like, why did you talk so much?

[281] Like I was a little, why did you talk so much?

[282] And just killing myself.

[283] Because Cole's mom and Tony's mom are sisters.

[284] They're like one of 12 kids.

[285] That were maybe in a jazz band or something insane growing up.

[286] They just all can play.

[287] Everything they can sing.

[288] They're like, it's a really great family.

[289] Yeah, really great.

[290] I spent, you know, my summers in Michigan and Christmas, like, everything.

[291] It was so fun.

[292] So their oldest brother, James, became a hippie and, like, left kind of and did his whole own life and had these three boys.

[293] And he's like a true hippie.

[294] And he's kind of amazing.

[295] And he would sit down at dinner with you and say, instead of saying, like, what do you do?

[296] Or, you know, he'd say, what excited you?

[297] you.

[298] And I remember being a kid going, I don't know, but I think I brought that story up.

[299] And then I remember thinking, why did you talk so much?

[300] Oh, gosh, why did you see all those things?

[301] They don't want to hear that stuff.

[302] It's so refreshing to know that everyone leaves parties and like replays the whole thing.

[303] Oh, like the whole thing.

[304] So true.

[305] Always.

[306] Yeah.

[307] Now you grew up in Orange County, or at least you were born and brought home from the hospital in Orange.

[308] I was born in Fountain Valley, California.

[309] And And then I moved to Arizona when I was like one until I was 13 was in Arizona.

[310] Okay.

[311] And so David, your dad, he worked for Nissan.

[312] He worked for Nissan.

[313] So what was dad's occupation?

[314] Was he a engineer or a marketer?

[315] His friends make fun of him when I say this.

[316] But I call him like a suit for Nissan.

[317] But to me, he wore a suit and he like left the house.

[318] But he didn't sell cars.

[319] He was like a parts manager.

[320] So he would leave, you know, he was out of the house like three days a week driving to like Kingston, Arizona and Flagstaff, Arizona, and selling the part?

[321] I don't know, like writing the reports.

[322] Okay.

[323] So he probably worked for corporate.

[324] And he kind of monitored.

[325] He had a zone probably, and he made sure all the, okay.

[326] Yeah.

[327] And then my father sold cars at dealerships my whole life.

[328] So we have a car connection.

[329] Yeah.

[330] And then mom was a homemaker.

[331] Okay.

[332] And then you had an older brother.

[333] Todd.

[334] Oh, you guys did all your own.

[335] And a little sister.

[336] Julie.

[337] Julie.

[338] Okay.

[339] Now, you didn't just stop.

[340] Arizona though, right?

[341] Because then you guys went to Texas.

[342] We went to Colorado for high school.

[343] Okay.

[344] Early high school.

[345] And then I started working on the Mickey Mouse game.

[346] Yeah, did that shoot in Orlando or?

[347] Yeah.

[348] It did.

[349] Okay, so back up.

[350] So that's a lot of moving.

[351] And how did you take to that?

[352] Especially if you left when you were, what, 13 or 14 to go to Colorado?

[353] That's a pretty significant age to start over, I think.

[354] Yeah.

[355] I had to start over a lot.

[356] And it takes a certain kid, you know, it was harder on other of my siblings.

[357] But I was sort of a loner anyway, so it kind of, I mean, I had a best friend in Arizona that I grew up with.

[358] But then I'm not like super gregarious or I kind of keep to myself anyway.

[359] Uh -huh.

[360] You're an introvert?

[361] Yeah, so it was okay.

[362] Uh -huh.

[363] I think it's easier for introverts maybe.

[364] Oh, yeah, maybe.

[365] I don't know.

[366] I doubt it's easy for anyone.

[367] Yeah.

[368] But you were dancing?

[369] That was a hobby of yours?

[370] Yeah, so then I, in Colorado, I got super involved in dance, and that was kind of my sport.

[371] And that's all I did, like from three in the afternoon until 9 o 'clock at night.

[372] What kind of dance?

[373] Every kind.

[374] So my parents didn't have a ton of money, so I got a scholarship at a studio, and so you'd have to go in and, like, clean the bathrooms and sweep the floors or whatever.

[375] But then you'd have to take a certain requirement of classes.

[376] So half of them have to be ballet, jazz, you know, like whatever.

[377] But that's kind of what I did all through my teenage years.

[378] Did you do any extracurricular high school activity based around that?

[379] Were you in like Palm Squad or cheer or anything?

[380] I wasn't because I was so, I was so like single -minded on succeeding at that.

[381] At dance.

[382] So at that time, did you have fantasies of being like a professional dancer?

[383] I guess so.

[384] Like that's all I cared about.

[385] And it certainly kept me out of like a lot of trouble.

[386] Right.

[387] I think it would have been, it just keeps you out of trouble when you're focused on something.

[388] Yeah, because you would have to find a different group that would have accepted you.

[389] Yeah.

[390] And if you're shy.

[391] Exactly.

[392] I just did that.

[393] And I did it on the weekends.

[394] I did it all the time.

[395] So I didn't have to totally find my way.

[396] When you're imagining being a professional dancer, I don't even really know what that means.

[397] Does that mean you dance on Broadway?

[398] Or is that mean you're Mikhail Berishnikov?

[399] Are you in the ballet?

[400] It's a really short, although music videos have sort of come back in a way.

[401] So there's like growing up, do you remember like MTV?

[402] Oh God.

[403] Yeah.

[404] The fly girls.

[405] Like there was a really cool.

[406] girl named Carrie on that show, that would have been sort of.

[407] Uh -huh.

[408] But that's like five people.

[409] And by the way, by the way, when you're 30, your body's so wrecked.

[410] Yeah.

[411] So in a way, I had the best of all worlds because I was snatched out of that and then got to transfer before I broke my body in a way that.

[412] Right.

[413] And I didn't have anything else kind of going on.

[414] But was acting in that mix?

[415] Not at all.

[416] No, just dance.

[417] Just dance.

[418] Okay.

[419] So first of all.

[420] How do you get discovered by Disney?

[421] You go to a giant casting call with like hundreds of kids.

[422] Yeah.

[423] With all my little dance friends.

[424] In Colorado or?

[425] In Colorado.

[426] Disney's famous for doing these like, they don't want like the studio kids in New York who are trained who are slick.

[427] Oh.

[428] They want like real kids.

[429] You know what I mean?

[430] Like from Colorado and Michigan.

[431] Ryan Gosling types.

[432] You know, it's funny.

[433] I still see him occasionally.

[434] I was like, Mickey Master, what's up?

[435] I'm sure he's like, yeah, yeah.

[436] And I'm like, yeah.

[437] Dyes, but I love it.

[438] Why wouldn't you claim that?

[439] It's so amazing.

[440] Agreed.

[441] I do want to talk about that.

[442] A lot of people, I think, feel like that's something they have to shed.

[443] Oh, my God.

[444] It's gold.

[445] It is pure gold.

[446] Doing Belle Biv DeVoe raps, I'm sorry.

[447] Like, and doing dance moves, the Roger rabbit and running, come on.

[448] It doesn't get better than that.

[449] So you go to some convention center, I assume, or some high at regency or something?

[450] Exactly.

[451] And you wait for hours with your friends and everyone's like waiting like their hair done up or whatever they're doing at 15 and like little kids who can sing and all this stuff.

[452] Are you sussing out the competition?

[453] Like, oh, that girl's definitely going to get it.

[454] I have no, not at all.

[455] I'm sure I was just like, what are you guys doing?

[456] Okay.

[457] Like I'd never done this before.

[458] Oh, great.

[459] And I go in and I do like a nerdy little dance and then Who, by the way, that casting director, someone should make something on that guy.

[460] Seriously.

[461] And he goes, you know, like, little girl, do you want to sing a song?

[462] Or I had to, like, read, like, a skit about a mermaid and some recycling or some shit.

[463] I don't know.

[464] He said, do you want to sing a song?

[465] And I said, oh, no, I don't sing.

[466] And he said, do you want to look at how many little kids are lined up outside there?

[467] And you're going to tell me you don't want to sing?

[468] And I said, I don't sing.

[469] Oh, boy.

[470] And then he brought me back anyway.

[471] and made me sing like happy birthday.

[472] They just want to make sure you can carry it like you're not toned.

[473] I would have failed that level.

[474] Me too, basically.

[475] But you sang it well enough that they overlooked it, I guess.

[476] So after the first round, how many people were brought back?

[477] Do you know?

[478] Then you're invited where you go with your parent.

[479] And the creepy thing about that show or maybe the good thing is they also interview your parents.

[480] Yeah, that's a good idea.

[481] It is because I mean.

[482] Some of them are crazy.

[483] Yeah.

[484] Yeah.

[485] As some of all parents are crazy.

[486] Yeah.

[487] So then there were a round of like 20 of us, and they did two of those.

[488] Was that in a different city or still in Denver?

[489] I think we went to L .A. to do it.

[490] Oh, my goodness.

[491] It's getting exciting.

[492] It's like, it's total playoffs.

[493] Yeah.

[494] And I'm sure all the parents are like, oh, I wonder if my kid's going to make it.

[495] Yeah.

[496] And was your mom, like out of 10, 10 is she would have been like a rabid stage mom, zero.

[497] She doesn't want you to do it.

[498] Where is she in that on the spectrum?

[499] I think they were just ignorant.

[500] I think they knew nothing.

[501] I remember we had to sign.

[502] contracts before you and my parents were like what you're going to make money like this is a lot of money yeah my parents were couldn't believe it thousands of dollars a week let's say yeah yeah and it was crazy how many of you come into the new cast okay so if there's 19 total that's how many musketeers there are yeah am i using the right terminology that sounds good okay um I think there There were maybe seven of us new kids, you know, and some really, like, amazing singers.

[503] Okay.

[504] Now, the Timberlake, the Britney Spears, and the Ryan Gosling, they were already, they had left, they were there, or they were behind you?

[505] I think they were a part of the new kids that came in.

[506] I guess they were a part of our group, but they were all 12, and I was 17.

[507] Oh, so you didn't really have time for them.

[508] I could drive.

[509] Dude.

[510] Yeah, these are babies.

[511] Like, they were babies.

[512] In fact, I babysat Britney Spears' little sister one time.

[513] Oh, sure, sure.

[514] You know what I mean?

[515] Like, they were little kids.

[516] Sweet, sweet little kids.

[517] Because really when you look at that group of people, it's almost like being on one of the peak years of Saturday Night, cast -wise.

[518] As far as who ended up being.

[519] It's kind of bizarre.

[520] Yeah, it's an incredible group of kids.

[521] Have it all become hugely successful.

[522] Yeah.

[523] So they put you in an apartment because I was wondering, like, are you in a hotel?

[524] Do you live at Epcot Center?

[525] What's going on?

[526] The crazy thing.

[527] Well, you have to find your own house.

[528] Okay.

[529] So it's super lo -fi.

[530] So they're like, no, you're on the show, but you have to find your own place to live and your income is barely enough to cover an apartment.

[531] But you should work it out.

[532] Right.

[533] Good luck.

[534] But we all thought it was such a cool experience that we were like, oh my God, this is so exciting.

[535] So does mom have to bring Todd and Julie?

[536] So they would come for the summers.

[537] Okay.

[538] So we would all get these things called silver passes, which gets you in the which you guys probably have well well side note my mom working for general motors they launched the Chevrolet luma at Disney world so GM bought like I don't know how much that thing costs for them to co -brand with Disney but they launched the car there we were there for like 10 days and we were given my brother and I these all access passes and these credit cards free concessions oh my god yeah we would just sprint when it would open to space mountain right at 10 times and eat for two hours and then exactly so we when you work for Disney they give you something called a silver pass, which means you get in and the number of the members of your family for free.

[539] So every day, this is what it was like, I came out of ask them, every day before work, like before 9 a .m., we'd meet some other cast members, a family that was visiting from their hometown, get their entire family in for free.

[540] We'd line up to get the kids like, I have five because I have five in my family.

[541] Someone else would have six.

[542] We'd get in all all these people from Texas or whatever, and then we'd go to work.

[543] But my brother would take my silver pass and just, like, do acid with his friends on space.

[544] Wonderful.

[545] All day.

[546] Oh, good for him.

[547] What a perk.

[548] Yeah.

[549] Oh, he was hilarious.

[550] So for the whole year, you're there.

[551] No, just the summer.

[552] Oh, just the summer.

[553] I think I would be out of school, like, a month, and then I'd have to go back.

[554] Got it.

[555] Okay, so you were back and forth.

[556] I was back and forth a little bit.

[557] Okay.

[558] What was it like to be in the grind of high school?

[559] like say 10th grade going like oh my god is wish this would get over so you can go like because what a different life you have you're a hot shot in florida you have autonomy you've got you've some money money yeah you have basically your own place yeah and then you're stuck back in school back in reality you could hold both thoughts right because there's a part of me that really craved like i never went to a school dance or like there were little things that i missed which i think continued into my 20s when I worked on Felicity, I'm so grateful for all my experiences.

[560] But I think, you did pay some price.

[561] You missed some.

[562] Of course.

[563] There's always a price.

[564] So I think, you know, when my girlfriend talks about going to summer camp, I'm like, I wish I wouldn't go to summer camp.

[565] Yeah.

[566] Well, what I was going to say is you're kind of living in two dramatically different cultures, one during the summer, which is all kind of artsy and everyone loves singing and dancing and expressing.

[567] And then you're going back to Colorado.

[568] But that year for, I think Disney, because I was under their umbrella like the old studio system yeah so they put me in it was like a re a part two or something of honey i shrunk the kid honey yeah you were in honey i blew up the kids so i did that during the week and then i would fly the red eye on a friday and shoot the saturday with the mickey mouse club and then fly back on sunday night and i remember i used to cry on the plane yeah because i just wanted to be around the kids because on the movie it was just me and adults basically right by the way It was so uncool.

[569] Like, the cool kids were, you know, getting drunk and doing fun things.

[570] And we were, like, learning dance numbers and meeting boys to men.

[571] And, you know, we were like, ah, that was such a good dance number.

[572] But were people fascinated by you back in high school when you returned to reality?

[573] I feel like I would have been very curious about the fact that you were on television and went away to Orlando.

[574] Oh, no. I don't think so.

[575] You might have missed it.

[576] I feel like you might have missed it.

[577] I mean, it's not that cool.

[578] See, I this is a Monica thing.

[579] No, I think it is cool I know you do But I'm always Monica and I fight all the time I'm like There's so many boys We're giving you rhythm And you missed it I just don't believe I just know it I know it for sure But I wasn't like the star Of the soccer team I think that would have been A bigger deal Cool At the keg party But just a general interest And you had to have existed Yeah I think so No I don't know When did you and Tony fall for each other Season one This is hilarious This is so good I mean When you were popular At their school Then And I didn't even live there.

[580] Yeah, exactly.

[581] Hello, I just had to move to Michigan.

[582] You can't imagine my phone ringing and going like, do you know that girl from Felicity?

[583] That's Tony's girlfriend.

[584] I was like, that's bullshit.

[585] So in my hometown, forget it.

[586] You were on like magazines and shit.

[587] Tony Luca.

[588] Almost not possible.

[589] He's so talented, by the way.

[590] Of course.

[591] He's on an episode I think of parenthood.

[592] He came in and performed.

[593] Yeah, I want to say that he.

[594] Oh, music.

[595] Yeah, because we would have all these different.

[596] musicians on that show.

[597] He's kind of like James Taylor.

[598] I mean, he's so, he can play anything.

[599] He can play piano.

[600] He's just like, he's so good.

[601] Do you know, I don't even know that I know him.

[602] I just am very good friends with Colin.

[603] I think I met him a couple of times, but I've inflated that over the years back when he was really famous and I had nothing to cling to.

[604] I think I acted like we were really tight.

[605] He's a super cool guy.

[606] And it's so talented.

[607] But he's so sweet.

[608] And then so on parenthood, I kind of found myself in this position where I was like, I think I've acted like we're really good friends.

[609] And I'm now realizing we're not.

[610] I think he'd be okay with.

[611] that.

[612] I think I'd be totally okay with that.

[613] Okay, so do you guys fall in love first season, season one of Mickey Mouse?

[614] I don't remember.

[615] Well, because this is important because I want to know when you're going back, are you not only going back to reality, but you're also like, you have a long -term relationship, you're juggling.

[616] And you're on TV, and some guys, whether you were cognizant of or not, were definitely interested in you.

[617] I think we were like made out or I don't know what you did, but I think we became boyfriend, girlfriend, later when we were a little bit older and then like season three of oh my god she doesn't remember that season but i'm like a hypnotist i know i'm a hypnotist i've been to a hypnotist i'm gonna say like oh did you drive on your first date i'm gonna get her there monica oh my god she's like i don't know what no i dated now it's like i did breakthrough breakthrough i dated a different guy okay who was like slightly older of course you did oh yeah chicago albert albert albert felds who was a part of this like branch off who was like this cool dude um who my poor mother she was stressed about it stress of course because you're in show business now coming home at like five i mean i was wild okay so tony was like the nice guy that i like ended up with at the end not that albert wasn't nice yeah you don't have to name names but was there any like raunchy behind the scenes like we're because what i've seen of course of course i've met a couple different disney stars through sobriety let's just say that of course and some pretty hard fucking goings -on from what i've heard no so it wasn't like that crazy it wasn't that crazy no they were they were pretty like nerdy nice kids oh good except that the drag is at about 17 all of the girls would get like booted off but the guys could stay till they were like 25 oh that's an exaggeration what do you suppose because girls they're like sexualized and they don't want to like see that they don't want them to have big boobs or anything and all of it yeah the whole shabang okay now when that was coming to an end and you knew it was going to come to an end obviously you were 18 when it ended yeah i think i got booted off at 17 17 yeah and so was it something that while you were approaching that did you go like oh i want to continue to do this i want to continue to make a living doing this and had you redirected your desire to be strictly a dancer into no i just want to be a performer what kind of plans did you have for yourself as vague i was 17 I graduated high school early because if you were any way of a decent student, you could graduate early because you could do it as fast as you could at these like on set tutoring people.

[618] So I did and moved to L .A. at 17.

[619] Did you get emancipated or you just went or did mom come with you?

[620] I think someone drove me, but then I was just there.

[621] Oh, wow.

[622] Okay.

[623] Well, you'd already been doing stuff on your own.

[624] I guess you had a lot of practice of kind of being independent at that point.

[625] Yeah, I was pretty independent.

[626] But still, you have two kids, you have three kids.

[627] I have three kids.

[628] I can't imagine.

[629] And I was in a world of craziness already, too.

[630] Like, I was wild.

[631] I was in a world of crazy.

[632] What kind of wild are we talking about?

[633] I wasn't even a party.

[634] I was just, I would hate to think of my daughter in some of these situations.

[635] I'd go, oh, fuck.

[636] You know what I mean?

[637] Yeah, yeah.

[638] I just was in adult situations a little bit.

[639] Sure.

[640] I just feel like I was in over my head and I'm glad I'm okay.

[641] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[642] I'm okay.

[643] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

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[661] So you move to L .A. by yourself.

[662] 17 and then how quickly do you get Felicity oh that was a couple years later so I worked on just like TV shows you know just like getting little guest stars yeah and then Felicity I was probably like 21 yeah really quick back to Tony because this interview is all about Tony yeah got it got it come clear I'm clear on Michigan did you guys cohabitate in L .A. no yeah oh you did okay so you guys lived together all right so all right good I was just worried about how lonely you were and I'm a little worried about your safety.

[663] But it sounds like maybe we were, you were good.

[664] Yeah.

[665] And then I live, yeah, I lived with Tony for a long time.

[666] You didn't ever live at Oakwood, though, did you?

[667] I did for a moment.

[668] Okay.

[669] Here's the other thing we love.

[670] Oakwood Apartments.

[671] But I, but I live, when I lived there, I think I was doing that movie with my mom.

[672] Oh, okay.

[673] There.

[674] And they've got a buffet breakfast we understand.

[675] Yeah, donuts and stuff.

[676] Yeah.

[677] I never saw that.

[678] Oh, yeah.

[679] We were told there are lots of donuts.

[680] I know.

[681] Such a creepy place, right?

[682] Well, it is.

[683] There's a lot of different experiences that come out of there.

[684] Some people was like the highlight of there.

[685] It was so fun.

[686] Yeah, like my, I did this movie Zethora with this little boy, Josh Hutcherson, who's now a huge movie star.

[687] And when I met him, I would go pick him up at the, that apartment and take him to like this car show at big boys when we work together.

[688] Yeah.

[689] He loved it.

[690] He wanted me to come for breakfast.

[691] They had like this terrible buffet.

[692] I don't remember this at all.

[693] It was like all like waffles and donuts and shit.

[694] Stuff you would not.

[695] It's like a continental breakfast.

[696] Yes, it's a continental breakfast.

[697] And there's a swimming pool.

[698] As kids, that's all my kids care about.

[699] Exactly.

[700] It was heaven for him.

[701] And I was like, oh, this is so fun for him.

[702] And then, of course, there's a dark underbelly of that place, which is like stage moms and dads who are, yeah, pressuring their children.

[703] Yeah, and just creep city.

[704] Okay.

[705] So do you remember as you were auditioning for Felicity, did you have any awareness of the stakes of it?

[706] Or were you like, oh, this is another pilot.

[707] It may or may not get picked up.

[708] Were you cognizant of the fact of like, oh, this is a gigantic opportunity?

[709] This is what I can tell you about that.

[710] The actual story of the pilot is sort of sad.

[711] true but I thought it was hilarious and when I finally went for this screen test and there I think there were like four of us I remember I left and I drove a pickup truck at the time I drove my truck by myself to go have a dinner like a steak dinner by myself and it's before we had cell phone so I remember thinking it's a big deal to me if I get it or if I don't get it it will be because you had an opportunity yeah because it's an opportunity it's actually something good that I actually like.

[712] So I went and I had a big steak.

[713] And I remember I delayed hearing.

[714] At sizzler.

[715] That's sizzler.

[716] That just makes it sound better.

[717] And I got home and then I heard the call, like if you got it or not.

[718] Like on your answering machine.

[719] On my answering machine.

[720] And did you dance in your apartment and get excited?

[721] I was just, I was, that's happy.

[722] I think you process things, how you process things.

[723] And I think I process things alone.

[724] And I think some people process them by like talking about like in meeting people and going fuck i hope i got that i hope but but but like that would make me sweat like you know what i mean to like talk i want to go in a room and you know i just came from all the press for this disney thing i need a minute like when i go to those talk shows or all that stuff i don't have anyone come with me i don't have hair and makeup come with it it stresses me out i need to be alone i just need to be quiet so that i can go and output all that shit because it's not my normal thing.

[725] Yeah, that's not your natural state.

[726] Right.

[727] I totally agree with you.

[728] And I too go to talk shows.

[729] I don't come with anyone.

[730] Yeah.

[731] In the segment producers and just the general staff at these shows are always, they're almost scared for you.

[732] They're like, what are you going to do?

[733] Do you think I can't get water?

[734] I'm going to be okay.

[735] Right.

[736] They either think like you've been stood up or I almost feel like I'm a loser.

[737] Like I'm at the movies by myself or something because they'll be like, oh, are you waiting by the way.

[738] It's the only way to see a movie.

[739] It's nice.

[740] But I, too, loved, I'm like, just, I need 30 minutes to think about what's coming next.

[741] Yeah.

[742] But I think in general, even if there's a good thing or if a stressful thing, I need to sort of take it down, like process it on my own, filter it first, and then I can kind of.

[743] Do you think that has anything to do with us being middle children?

[744] Oh, you're a middle too?

[745] I'm a middle child.

[746] And so much of my life was kind of private because there was a teenager who was insane.

[747] And then there was a baby who needed tons of attention.

[748] I wanted my mom to know I'm not making any problems for you.

[749] That was kind of my...

[750] That breaks my heart because I have a middle.

[751] I'm like, oh, no, that's what she does.

[752] But it's true.

[753] But I think more than that, what you're describing, I do think there's a truth to introvert, introvert and extroval.

[754] I do.

[755] Because I feel like there are moments where I could be really loud and really crazy.

[756] But I think it's just the way you like to recharge.

[757] Yeah.

[758] Do you know what I mean?

[759] Sure.

[760] If I'm at a dinner party that I am fucking loving, I still have to take myself to the bathroom.

[761] and have a minute and go, like, I just need a minute to, like, be on my own, and then I'm going to come back out.

[762] Or if, like, I have to be to premiere or there's a crowd, I'm like, shake it out.

[763] Okay, I'm going to go hide in the stall.

[764] How long can I be in here?

[765] Okay.

[766] And I'm going to come back out.

[767] Like, I have to, like, take it down for a minute and then head back out.

[768] Just like doing press and being, you know, on talk shows and all those things, if you're not funny and, you know, super confident, like, I went to a hypnotist for, like sweating because I was like so nervous after Felicity I became like paralyzed you know nervous while doing press or just shooting in general press mostly okay but then it got into like being even around people like my girlfriend Mandy in L .A. would call and it's back when do you remember when we had those things called caller ID oh yeah but like the phones and I'd pick up the phone I'd go hello and she'd go it's me calling why do you sound scared it is me and I was like I'm not so I didn't mean to sound scared.

[769] I'm just...

[770] Oh, wow.

[771] Yeah.

[772] But I was having like a moment of like, ah, people are like, and I can't imagine what people feel now with like social media.

[773] And I had none of that.

[774] Well, and then also, again, I don't think I was ever as famous as you were on Felicity.

[775] And then neither of us are even one billion as famous as like when Robert Donnie Jr. goes to a mall or something.

[776] And people literally have to stop running the store they're running or whatever to go get involved.

[777] But there's something specific about Felicity.

[778] And those shows, they were huge, and they were huge to a young audience that is fervent.

[779] So Robert Downey Jr., yes, but he has a different thing going on.

[780] You're right, the actors on the West Wing, who probably they had many more viewers than you.

[781] A ton.

[782] Weren't getting the same attention probably because the fan bases.

[783] It was like when I was on punk, people would slam on their brakes and threaten to kill me because that was the type of fan.

[784] Of course.

[785] I know, I had like super nice people come up because I was going.

[786] like, you're oh my God, you're on Felicity.

[787] And like, they still do.

[788] They want to hug.

[789] They just want to be like, you're my best friend.

[790] Yeah.

[791] But it's a lot of energy.

[792] It is.

[793] Toward you.

[794] And at the time, I was so young and such an introvert and didn't quite have the language for that at the time.

[795] So you need to tap out earlier than other people need to.

[796] And now I know it.

[797] One of my best girlfriends in New York, who was also on the Mickey Mouse Club, who's now like a big time lawyer and does none of this stuff.

[798] One of the first big talk shows I went on true story Rosie O'Donnell back when she had a show back in a million years ago and I went on and I got that overwhelming thing that like shy people I got so overwhelmed I walked out I could feel it as the stage manager was going and three two I was like oh fuck and it was like slim motion I was like heart just beat I can't hear my own voice I'm walking out and by the way she couldn't be nicer right it's like she's so warm she's so nice I went out, she's asking me questions, tears, coming down my, I'm smiling and acting like it's fine, wiping them away, going, I'm, um, uh, Colorado and I'm growing, I grew up there and she's like, kind of going, she's going, she's going to be okay.

[799] And I'm just like, and I was so ashamed of myself that I couldn't do it.

[800] I'm like, I locked myself in the bathroom at the hotel and I was just like, I just like fucked it up.

[801] I was so bad at it.

[802] And my girlfriend at the time, Alana was like, you know what?

[803] I just saw, I don't know, he was like a big, famous person at the time, like Kim Basinger on there.

[804] And she was so nervous.

[805] And you know what?

[806] I liked her for it.

[807] Because it made me think, that must be so nerve -wracking being at that.

[808] And I fucking loved her for that.

[809] It saved me. Yeah.

[810] Yeah.

[811] But it was like, it is nerve -wracking.

[812] Okay, now, back to Felicity.

[813] Felicity.

[814] Okay.

[815] So that's a JJ Abrams show.

[816] I was just with JJ today.

[817] Okay, great.

[818] And so you You guys have now worked together three times.

[819] That's true.

[820] Right?

[821] Because you did Mission Impossible Three and now Star Wars.

[822] It killed me in Mission Impossible Three.

[823] It was an awesome death.

[824] People still are like, that's a great death.

[825] I'm like, I know.

[826] So back to Felicity.

[827] Now, I never watched the show, but I was, to Monica's point, I was acutely aware of it.

[828] Like, I knew who you were, I knew you were Felicity.

[829] I knew exactly what you look like.

[830] I'd seen a bunch of magazine covers.

[831] I saw billboards and everything.

[832] Because it was on the WB.

[833] It was like a small show.

[834] That's funny.

[835] Yeah, but a lot of those shows.

[836] in that era, I knew, like, I knew, there weren't as many shows.

[837] Yes, that's true.

[838] And if they were young shows, like, I knew that, uh, Smallville.

[839] I knew those people, but I didn't watch.

[840] I didn't watch, but I know what it is.

[841] And I knew all the actors and I knew they were popular and stuff.

[842] So now, what I have a very thin understanding of, but I know is a huge to do is that you cut your hair season two.

[843] I did.

[844] Yeah, and everyone freaked out.

[845] People lost their shit.

[846] You lost their shit.

[847] Now, to me, just I find that because I wasn't on the inside of it.

[848] It seems preposterous and hilarious to me. Just learning this.

[849] So between season one and two, coming back on season two, you had a new hairdo.

[850] I had a new hairdo.

[851] Who chose to have a new hairdo?

[852] So JJ and Matt, who created the show.

[853] Oh, okay.

[854] So it wasn't like you were like, I'm changing this up.

[855] So this is the beginning of where I understood how things play in the press, right?

[856] Uh -huh.

[857] So how things are taken out of context.

[858] Yeah.

[859] So when I did that show, we were wrapping up the show.

[860] and makeup trailer end of season one was putting everything in boxes all their stuff and the wigs and there was a wig that was like a little boy's wig or some shit I don't know and I put it on as a joke like because we would shoot till five in the morning on a Friday night and I put it on and they took a picture of me because they were like oh that's so cute and they said you know it would be really funny send this to JJ and Matt over the break because I had such big curly hair and they said send it to them and just say, doesn't this look cute?

[861] To give them a panic attack.

[862] To give them a panic attack.

[863] Yeah.

[864] And I sent it in a letter.

[865] I said, you guys, I just did it.

[866] And they thought it would be so cute if I cut my hair.

[867] And so I sent the Polaroid.

[868] I'm up in Muscoca.

[869] I love Muscoca.

[870] I grew up going to Muscoca.

[871] Oh, you did?

[872] Alana, my girlfriend.

[873] Yeah.

[874] So I was up at Muscoca swimming with her in the lake and someone's like, there's a phone call from you.

[875] You have to take it.

[876] It's JJ and Matt.

[877] There's no laughing about how funny the joke is they're like but seriously would you oh i was like guys wasn't that a funny joke yeah yeah they're like no seriously we saw that picture and we thought that is what every college girl does they break up with their boyfriend and they cut their hair they did some radical and i said sure okay so they cut it actually on the show oh okay we filmed my hair being cut and yet People are still like, so what happened was there was an executive at one of those up front things who as a joke in a speech said, we'll never let someone cut their hair again.

[878] So then it became my problem.

[879] Oh, interesting.

[880] It was just to the side.

[881] It was just like a joke.

[882] If that whole event happened to me, if I was a part of something and all of a sudden, basically what I would have interpreted from that is, oh, I was hanging on by such a thread.

[883] And now this hair was the only thing attractive about me. And now that's gone.

[884] Now people hate me. It would have confirmed my own story about myself that I'm not enough to begin with.

[885] It is interesting.

[886] I mean, who knows?

[887] I already had my insecurities were probably at such massive levels at that time.

[888] But they're grown people.

[889] I like had a mom at a mall come up to me during that time and go, you were so pretty before you cut your hair.

[890] Oh, sure, sure.

[891] I was like, oh, thanks.

[892] Thank you for that.

[893] But there's also being a kid in that storm, I was already like riding that weird wave and I think I was already like rebelling in my own mind and pushing it all away.

[894] So in a way I was like, fuck you.

[895] Like I don't fucking care.

[896] Oh, good.

[897] I can cut my hair.

[898] But internally.

[899] But the other thing that saved me is on that show, I was never the pretty girl on that show.

[900] The pretty girls were the guest characters were these glamorous pretty, long -haired girls.

[901] And I was the nerd on that show.

[902] That was my care.

[903] I was the nerd.

[904] I wore no makeup.

[905] I wore big baggy sweaters.

[906] So there was such freedom and power in that.

[907] I got to be funny.

[908] I got to be sad.

[909] I got to be stupid.

[910] The girls had to come on.

[911] I remember this one particular girl, I won't say her name.

[912] But I remember her coming on and thinking, oh my God, she is so pretty.

[913] I remember being jealous.

[914] I remember thinking, oh, he's going to think she's really pretty and blah, blah, blah.

[915] But I remember watching going, she's so uncomfortable because she has to be pretty and I don't have to be pretty at all I just have to be you me so it was kind of good yeah but very ironic because and I don't think this is my own personal proclivity but you are certainly one of the cues people on TV period so I can't even imagine I imagine that there were people that were cast against you that were more elegant or glamorous but I don't know who likes that when I go and in those In that era of like auditioning and doing all that stuff, I would be told over and over, especially if it was like a superhero movie thing.

[916] They're like, don't forget, we're very high heels, a padded bra.

[917] No, a really padded bra.

[918] I'm like, I got it.

[919] I hear you.

[920] I got it the first fucking five times.

[921] No, but get a padded bra and then get another padded bra and put it over that padded bra.

[922] I was like, got it.

[923] But that's the cool thing about.

[924] not being 20 anymore like you just kind of listen i mean we all have our own stuff but at least i look at my girlfriends and i think they're prettier now than they ever were i think like now they just look so good to me sure i don't know yeah i think you doing the americans whether it was consciously or not was a way for you to go oh i'm not playing that game the game where my beauty is my asset and i feel like uh the americans was like a really maybe now in retrospect like smart thing to go like, no, no, I'm going to be like James Gandalfini.

[925] I'm just going to be a fucking powerhouse and that's going to be the thing you want for me. But that was all such a surprise.

[926] I was in the middle of having kids and small kids.

[927] This is when Americans came your way.

[928] And I mean, I wanted to do something good, but I didn't, I wasn't ambitious enough to be chasing every little thing.

[929] I have a much more, some would argue, not great philosophy on it.

[930] I have a much more Zen thing about it, idea about it.

[931] You can try to force anything.

[932] I don't try to force it if it comes my way.

[933] Like, I kind of believe in like the flow of it.

[934] Yeah, that's aspirational.

[935] It comes.

[936] There's one little thing I want to ask.

[937] When Felicity ended, you moved to New York.

[938] Yeah.

[939] What motivated that?

[940] You know, Felicity was so great in so many ways.

[941] It was the first time I really felt like I was an actor.

[942] I love the story.

[943] I loved everything about it, but I just needed a break.

[944] I knew I couldn't do it anymore.

[945] And there was certainly money to be made.

[946] And there were great opportunities, but I knew that I needed to just check out for a minute.

[947] And I thought, maybe I'll go to school.

[948] What do I want to do?

[949] And so I took a little bit more than a year off, maybe a year and a half.

[950] I was the only one of those kids who didn't buy a big house or didn't buy a fancy car.

[951] And so I just thought, I'd saved all this money.

[952] I had no time to spend money.

[953] I was on that show 18 hours a day, you know.

[954] So I moved to New York where a couple of my really close girlfriends lived and got this great apartment in the West Village and just acted like a kid.

[955] Well, I was just going to say, were you starting to feel like, oh, wow, if I don't take a time out right now, I'm in the machine on the conveyor belt, and it's just all going to pass by me and I never had my own real life, quote, real life.

[956] Big time.

[957] And I just think, I just wanted to, like, be able to show up for birthday parties and go, like, out dancing with my girlfriends and be drunk and do, like, basic things and, like, real life things that I was craving.

[958] It was so fun.

[959] Because what were you, 24 when you moved there or something?

[960] No, I was probably, oh, yeah.

[961] Oh, yeah, so maybe I was more like 26.

[962] 26.

[963] And you're single?

[964] Single.

[965] Oh, my God.

[966] And you're going out dancing.

[967] So fun.

[968] Oh, my goodness.

[969] And you'd think it'd be so crazy and like kind of salacious and sexual.

[970] But you know what?

[971] Like the real beauty of it was like girlfriends.

[972] Like just being able to be there and hear about all their dates.

[973] And I fucking love that.

[974] We would watch The Bachelor to just come out.

[975] It was so fun.

[976] And it was just like I got my life back.

[977] Yeah.

[978] And that's when I very first started going on dates.

[979] And, you know, it was just like.

[980] Yeah, but that's such a fun city.

[981] It was so fun.

[982] And to not be super poor, like I had enough money to like have an, it was such a great time.

[983] And when you're in the thick of it with three kids, are you just like, oh man, I could go for just a weekend in that apartment?

[984] Like three times a day.

[985] Three times a day.

[986] Yeah, but you're really a serial monogamous, right?

[987] You've gone from like long -term relationship to long -term relationship.

[988] There are so many times I'm like, why didn't I just date more?

[989] Why didn't I just like take every opportunity?

[990] I'm such a good girl.

[991] Why did I do that?

[992] Yeah.

[993] I tried it for like a half a second in New York and just I was like, oh.

[994] It's not that fun.

[995] No, you like who you like.

[996] It's better in theory, but it's not really fun to do actually to like hang out with strangers you don't really like.

[997] Yeah.

[998] I kind of agree.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] Yeah.

[1001] But some people love it.

[1002] That's true.

[1003] That's true.

[1004] Some people love it.

[1005] But no, I like who I like.

[1006] You know what you know.

[1007] You know what you know.

[1008] Okay.

[1009] So now back to you get a script ascent to you, I assume.

[1010] It's the Americans.

[1011] And it's on FX.

[1012] And do you know the producers and all?

[1013] Joe, you don't know anyone.

[1014] And were you naive to Matthew as I was?

[1015] I met him.

[1016] You had met him once before.

[1017] I'd met him 10 years before.

[1018] Where?

[1019] In Rustic Canyon at a kickball party.

[1020] Of course that's where you were That's a great way to meet someone In a parking lot At do you know Jennifer Gray's husband No They have a kickball party every year I don't know if they still do This is years ago And I was moving to New York that fall So I showed up at the end And then everyone was leaving The sun was setting And there were these two Welsh guys in the parking lot And they're like, we have beer left We have beer left, come over here We just sat in the parking lot No kidding.

[1021] So when they start floating his name, do you go like, oh, I met him.

[1022] He's a great hang.

[1023] No memory of him.

[1024] No memory of him.

[1025] You've sensed, you had a previous breakthrough where he - Far down the line.

[1026] Like, we were already in like training with each, like combat training, like sweaty and boxing all these things.

[1027] And I remember him, I was like eating sushi lunch or something, whatever, sweaty.

[1028] And he's like, you know, we've met.

[1029] And I said, no, we haven't.

[1030] And he was like, yeah, we have.

[1031] And he's like, we went to a kickball party and I opened a beer.

[1032] I was like, oh, my God.

[1033] And he came flooding back?

[1034] I know exactly who he was.

[1035] I was like, you left me a drunk message on my voice.

[1036] Oh, wow.

[1037] So exciting.

[1038] Seth Myers.

[1039] I was on Seth Myers years ago and I told him that story and he's like, he really plays the long game.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] Slow play.

[1042] Slow play.

[1043] Just set the seed.

[1044] 10 years.

[1045] I'll see you in 10 years, Tuts.

[1046] Here's a free beer.

[1047] I'll see you in 10.

[1048] We'll knock out six seasons.

[1049] an amazing show together and we'll have a kid.

[1050] Okay, so you read the Americans and you love the pilot, obviously, I assume.

[1051] I liked it.

[1052] I didn't know where it was going to go.

[1053] Okay, so this is my statement about the show.

[1054] I've encouraged many, many people to watch it.

[1055] And this is what I say to people.

[1056] I'm like, watch Americans.

[1057] Just get through the first four or five episodes.

[1058] By the season.

[1059] But no, no. I'll tell you the exact moment for me where that show takes off.

[1060] Okay.

[1061] I say, you'll watch it.

[1062] And the first four or five, you'll be like, it's a good show.

[1063] It's a well -made, good show and it's well acted and then someone's in a phone booth and then they get taken by ether from behind and pulled out of the phone booth I can't remember I think it's you oh oh and they and that mother fucking show takes off from that moment that show does not let up for like 30 some episodes oh when we're like in and they're like you get like kidnapped yes and I'm fighting like the Ether to the face, I was like, what, and then the stakes that you guys maintained, I don't know how they did it.

[1064] They were so good.

[1065] The writers were so great.

[1066] It's such a great show to binge too, because you just want more episodes so bad.

[1067] That's so good.

[1068] Matthew, I don't know that I've ever had such a, like an experience just getting so won over by somebody in such a short period of time.

[1069] I feel like that is him.

[1070] Is that him in general?

[1071] It's good.

[1072] He gets your guard down.

[1073] It's funny, Seth Myers says he plays the long game.

[1074] And he does.

[1075] He does.

[1076] There's a sexiness to him.

[1077] There's a charisma.

[1078] There's like a crazy sexiness.

[1079] Oh, he's so goddamn sexy.

[1080] I don't know how he does it.

[1081] He just has that.

[1082] He has some kind of internal confidence.

[1083] That's the gravity he is.

[1084] He's like down and he just like has this thing.

[1085] We'll be anywhere.

[1086] I remember being at, I don't know, with some fancy like metball, one of those like crazy stupid things.

[1087] And I remember Diane von Furstenberg comes up to us and she's just like crazy and like doing whatever she does, talking, and then she's like, you, I watched you on a plane.

[1088] People just like zero in on him.

[1089] And I'm like, here we go, here we go.

[1090] They're like, you know, he just had, that's his currency.

[1091] Like that's his wavelength a little bit.

[1092] Oh, I like it a lot.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1095] Okay, so let's just get into the show for one second because I have some questions about it.

[1096] What's interesting is that you're playing a Russian who is living in as an American.

[1097] Correct.

[1098] And then within that, you're playing many different characters because you have to kind of go undercover and convince certain people that you're someone, that you're not.

[1099] And did you even think about the fact that, okay, Elizabeth can't be as good of an actor as Carrie?

[1100] Like, I have to have some delineation between how good of an actress is Elizabeth versus how good.

[1101] Does that make any sense?

[1102] Of course.

[1103] Yeah, no, yeah.

[1104] Like, we can't just assume Elizabeth is like a world -class actor when she goes undercover, yet she has to be good enough that we know she's an amazing agent.

[1105] Because I think the reality is no CIA person.

[1106] No, they're not.

[1107] No. They're not.

[1108] They were being the same person just in a different place.

[1109] They're different information virtually.

[1110] I do think Matthew is so good as a chameleon.

[1111] We could suspend all of that to let him fly, sort of.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] Yeah, because sometimes he was a little too good.

[1114] Because he's so fucking good.

[1115] He is an actor.

[1116] You know, I feel like there are technicians as actors.

[1117] And then what I do kind of isn't that.

[1118] Like I can skate by doing this other thing that I can do every once in a while.

[1119] But I don't wake up every day and think, oh, gosh, I haven't acted.

[1120] Ooh, I got to like, get out there.

[1121] And I'm going to do some play readings.

[1122] I'm going to like, ooh, try out my German accent this week.

[1123] You know what I mean?

[1124] It's not who I am.

[1125] Like, I love stories.

[1126] I like truth, you know, and I can swing it.

[1127] occasionally.

[1128] But Matthew is that.

[1129] He is.

[1130] He loves.

[1131] It is what he does.

[1132] He's good at it.

[1133] He's a chameleon.

[1134] He like comes alive a little bit.

[1135] So he on that show was ideal.

[1136] But yes, that was what was so funny just last night.

[1137] Matthew said to me, he was reminding me about some serious conversation we had.

[1138] And it was like season one.

[1139] And I had to wear some crazy costume.

[1140] I mean, that show was so fun for that.

[1141] You're about to say what I could show you.

[1142] you have written on paper.

[1143] Maybe.

[1144] Lies.

[1145] I see nothing.

[1146] Oh, right here, right here, right here, right here.

[1147] You know, it's a unique situation for Kristen and I to watch a show as actors.

[1148] Because we're thinking about, A, we're sucked into the show, but then we're also really aware of how the sausage is made.

[1149] Of course.

[1150] So literally one of the things I wrote down was about this.

[1151] And I think it's basically exactly what you're just going to say that Matthew reminded you of.

[1152] You sometimes had your most heartfelt and important scenes in crazy.

[1153] wigs with Philip and Matthew in huge glued on moustaches and wigs.

[1154] There was one scene in particular, you guys, like this whole season is leading up to this confrontation that you two will have.

[1155] I can't remember the particulars of the scene, but it was the most important scene of the season, and you guys are both in deep, deep disguise in the show.

[1156] Chris and I were both like, how would that not take you out of it?

[1157] Like, you're talking to a guy with a big crazy mustache on all of a sudden, this curly little wig.

[1158] That's not even what he looks like.

[1159] So I have two answers.

[1160] Okay.

[1161] Number one, in the first season, which when we were all getting used to it, and I was also so in love with, like, I was so, that's also the other thing I want to say about Matthew, you know, my life was taking a turn regardless.

[1162] It had been many years in the coming, and I was experiencing this huge life change and kind of like feeling alive again and I'm so glad it was him that was there.

[1163] Right, yes.

[1164] Because it could have, you know, it's truly, it's always you in life, right?

[1165] So it was me. going through it, but I'm so glad he was the one to be there because it was such a good person to be here.

[1166] But, so to answer your question about the disguises, number one, in the beginning, they would make us laugh uncontrollably.

[1167] I have one disguise in the first season, particularly which we were supposed to have like a really serious scene, and he calls it my John Denver outfit.

[1168] Because it was like this like blonde in and he's like, I had one in particular that it was so hardcore.

[1169] I love that.

[1170] And so we would laugh uncontrolled.

[1171] I'd be pinching myself trying to like not.

[1172] And then there were other times, which we were just laughing about last night.

[1173] We were having a really serious conversation.

[1174] He was telling me something like Carrie and Matthew were having a conversation.

[1175] Right.

[1176] Something like hardcore about his life.

[1177] He said, and you know what I remember about that conversation we were having?

[1178] You were dressed in this crazy outfit as like Elvira with this like black wig and this fucking red skirt.

[1179] And I was looked up at you at a certain point.

[1180] And I was like, what is that?

[1181] Who are you?

[1182] Because I mean, there was so many, but it was also so fun and so sexy.

[1183] I mean, like, you know, it was so fun.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] But is it weird to be falling in love with someone and working so closely with them every day?

[1186] I mean, it's fun, I can assume.

[1187] But what about like, yeah, scenes where he's with other people?

[1188] Is it hard to separate at that time when you're falling in love?

[1189] Well, no, because when you're falling, everything's fun.

[1190] Gravy, sort of.

[1191] It's just like, it's the best thing ever.

[1192] It's like the best thing ever.

[1193] It's like the best.

[1194] feeling of all time but you know a working relationship yes is very hard right i'm like hey when are you going to be oh right that girl's giving you a blow job in a car right exactly yeah i'm the best fucking time ever yeah i'll see you later right i'd imagine yeah i'd imagine it's easier when it's new because that all the emotions are so heightened and the feeling so heightened and you're like oh if this person feels half of what i feel about them i'm not too threatened by the totally girl in the other scene it's just later As things, you know what I mean.

[1195] Yeah, as they dissipate and real life takes over and someone's got to pick up so -and -so at some playday.

[1196] You're like, don't worry, I got these six months at home.

[1197] Oh, so you can't pick up, you can't pick them up from preschool?

[1198] What are you doing?

[1199] What are you in a three -way?

[1200] You're in a three -way.

[1201] Cool, cool.

[1202] All right, well, all right, cool.

[1203] Now, Monica and I have discussed many times what the show was about.

[1204] The Americans.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] Monica was the one who said, you know what, this whole show is about.

[1207] loyalty there's all these layers of loyalty like really makes you examine the layers of loyalty are you loyal to a partner are you loyal to your children are you loyal to country are you loyal to country and of course it was always so frustrating for me a i wanted you guys to be in love i wanted you to defect i wanted you to be americans i wanted you to put your children above that and i wanted you to recognize that the soviet experiment was not working and i don't know why you're fighting for but undoubtedly that is the the ranking for many people it's like god country family or maybe it's country god family or whatever their order is and for me it's just like family and fuck everyone else so was it at all challenging for you to because i can't imagine your love for the USA trumps your love for your real life three children but that's not our country you know what i mean it is such a different personality it's an intense because it's such suffering.

[1208] It's such, such suffering during that period, right?

[1209] But if you can think of, I mean, and I know Israelis are different for a different reason, but there's a tie to country that we do not have.

[1210] That's true.

[1211] At this point, we don't, we haven't had to have it.

[1212] Right.

[1213] And I feel like it's something we can, it's very difficult for Americans to understand.

[1214] You're right.

[1215] We don't have to have it.

[1216] But it's not in our culture.

[1217] Yeah, well, they have these kind of historic moments that they've to find the cultural character around, right?

[1218] Like the siege of Leningrad and defeating the Germans.

[1219] Even that, you know, to think, what are the numbers that the Americans had something like a couple hundred thousand that died?

[1220] Right, and they lost millions during just.

[1221] Millions.

[1222] They won World War II.

[1223] Yes.

[1224] But aren't you taught in American?

[1225] Oh, yeah, that we did.

[1226] We won.

[1227] Yeah, yeah.

[1228] But we freed Europe, didn't we?

[1229] Right.

[1230] They lost millions.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] Just through, yeah, a trick.

[1233] and determination and they didn't have the right that they did they were outgunned in many ways out technology and they just had will but so it was it was an interesting dynamic to play with and it obviously is unique to understand but you just have to kind of switch it what mental gymnastics did you do because we all love the characters we play on TV even on shows where like my heart's not all the way in it my heart is in the character I'm playing and I find myself fighting these battles that ultimately often they're write the showrunners like you need conflict and my probably objectives always to make myself look good or my character to do good and that's not great for story but you get protective over your character so I wonder for you you know ultimately you kind of became the friction piece of standing in the way of maybe Matthew's character just being an American happy family right right yeah so did you ever but it was so fun to be as a the girl and especially to be me coming from Felicity and I feel like I was a nice, pregnant mom for about 20 years of my career.

[1234] They were like, who can we get?

[1235] Who's like a nice, Carrie Russell's available.

[1236] Oh my gosh, let's get her.

[1237] Yeah, she's great.

[1238] She's so pregnant.

[1239] She's so nice.

[1240] She's so nice.

[1241] So I did a lot of that.

[1242] So you were really enjoying getting to play?

[1243] Because that was the role.

[1244] And I struggled with it at the beginning.

[1245] I thought, oh, God, she's so unlikable.

[1246] But then I realized it's not about being unlikely.

[1247] She really believes this.

[1248] I know.

[1249] She believes this.

[1250] And for her daughter to come home at like 16 and say she's going to be a Christian is so ridiculous like that's so yeah it means nothing it's like nonsense yeah and how did I raise this person it was so fun and it was so fun to get to be Matthew was sort of the mushy weak one yeah I was going to say it was a little bit of a gender flip so fun yeah I feel like Elizabeth was just more black and white about everything there was no gray it's like this is what's right and this is what's wrong my biggest conceit for me was the Philip character kept saying but it's to protect our family and we need to be here and my argument was always Elizabeth is the better spy because it's black and white you're going to get our family into trouble you're so wishy -washy and have your hands and so many different things and taking care of people and all these things and you're putting our family in danger by doing that.

[1251] Yeah.

[1252] Where as Elizabeth was very clear and therefore like the better soldier was the better protector of the family.

[1253] She had more clarity on all of it.

[1254] Right.

[1255] It was so physical.

[1256] There was so much ass kicking you were so believable as someone who could kick ass that was the most fun part because it was a dancer so it was so fun yes yeah it looked really incredibly plausible like so often i see these fight scenes and i'm just like i'm not buying that for half a second this is like they just danced a little bit and now someone fell down and they're out for good but your your stuff was gruesome and it was oh my god was it wonderful some great love making scenes in that we had a conversation the other day on this show about how many directors weirdly are like super confident with shooting violence and stuff, but they're real uncomfortable with love making stuff.

[1257] But the love making stuff in the Americans was top notch.

[1258] It was really beautiful.

[1259] Like it wasn't ever corny or cheesy.

[1260] It was like the perfect level of super sexy.

[1261] Good.

[1262] I'm glad.

[1263] So loyalty.

[1264] I was just going to ask.

[1265] No, that's such a good.

[1266] It is loyalty.

[1267] I mean, but to me it was just a show about marriage and I feel like the spy stuff was just metaphor.

[1268] It just like it allowed every stake to be raised, you know, about trust, loyalty, cheating.

[1269] I mean, everything.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] At its crux to me, it was always a show about marriage.

[1272] One of those, the storylines I found most intriguing.

[1273] Who's the actress who's now on Oh, yeah.

[1274] She's on Ozarks now.

[1275] Julia Garner.

[1276] Julia Garner.

[1277] That whole storyline with her and Matthew, I found to be so intriguing.

[1278] Like, Chris and I would just pause it.

[1279] Well, I'll tell you, because I had this whole feeling about it, and I had to really spend time to understand what it was about it.

[1280] We'll tell people what it is.

[1281] Okay, so Philip, Matthew's character, has to hang out with this young girl.

[1282] I think on the show, she's like 15 or 16.

[1283] 15, I think.

[1284] I mean.

[1285] Yes, and he is, I don't know, on the show, what he's supposed to be 38 or something, 35.

[1286] And so immediately you're like, well, this is highly inappropriate.

[1287] So let's just start there.

[1288] But then these scenes, I would get so sucked into them.

[1289] and I would have this, I desire for them to be in these scenes together.

[1290] And I was saying to Kristen, I'm like, what is going on right now?

[1291] I'm like, obviously I don't want any 38 -year -old man to hook up with a 16 -year -old girl, yet these scenes are doing something to me. Anyways, after lots of thinking about it, what I realized was the appeal of it was, he was time traveling.

[1292] So there's nothing raunchy going on with him, but he was enjoying it because he was going, his life was so, so much responsibility.

[1293] And he'd go into her house and they'd smoke weed and they'd get the munchies and they'd sit in it.

[1294] They'd laugh and giggle and eat and all that.

[1295] And that was the thing that I was like, I think we all desire to time travel to feel 16 again and smoke weed and just.

[1296] Well, it's a loss of responsibility.

[1297] It's a loss of responsibility.

[1298] And also, like, recapturing this notion of like the sky's the limit that you have your whole life ahead of you.

[1299] Like, everything's kind of exciting and interesting.

[1300] And so that was the thing that I was like, envious of him.

[1301] Not that I want to hook up with a 16 year old, but that I want to have a 16 year old transport me back to being 16.

[1302] Do you think, you know, because older men constantly like taking a second wife who's 20, 30 years younger, do you think that's what it is?

[1303] You know, I do think a lot of those guys, yes, they'll say, she makes me feel young again.

[1304] Right.

[1305] And so, yeah, on the surface, it's like, oh, just this pervy thing.

[1306] and it's our society for whatever reason permits that or even encourages it or doesn't frown upon it, whatever.

[1307] But I don't know that it's as, yeah, as simple as just, oh, they're attracted to young people as much as they're attracted to feeling young again.

[1308] That moment in time.

[1309] Yes.

[1310] And that you can kind of absorb their experience or piggyback on the way they're looking at life.

[1311] Now, I also think that would get really annoying very quickly to me. Right.

[1312] Like just the, there's so much work when you're that young.

[1313] You're constantly evaluating where you're at in the world and I should be here and I'm not here and I should be there but that stuff I couldn't imagine suffering through with a younger partner right that would drive me bonkers yeah but there would be aspects of it I think that would feel time travely but I understand in fact I feel like they used that amazing van Morrison song sweet thing or something yeah and it has such a feeling that song a nostalgic feeling of and of him coming home you know and I think that is what they were capturing, but they were also pushing the envelope of like, are they going to fuck?

[1314] Are they going to?

[1315] Oh, God.

[1316] Oh, yeah.

[1317] It's interesting, and I don't want to get bogged down on a Me Too conversation, but I do wonder if that storyline would have been pitched just two years later.

[1318] No. I don't think it would have been.

[1319] Such an interesting time.

[1320] Yeah, and I think it's a really powerful storyline, and I liked it.

[1321] I don't know what else to say.

[1322] Like, I found it very, I was very nervous the whole time.

[1323] There was just so many things about it that were high stakes.

[1324] But I think, well, I don't know having a thought explosion.

[1325] But I remember one time with my ex -husband, the carpenter, I remember saying to Shane, we were talking about, you know, like, who he would have sex with or something.

[1326] Yeah, hall pass the kind of conversation.

[1327] Or he said, oh, do you like that guy?

[1328] I was like, that guy?

[1329] And I was like, look, if I'm going to fuck anyone on your crew, it's going to be Joey the Plummer's 18 -year -old son with like the little like summer beads.

[1330] I was like, that's what I'm going to fuck.

[1331] And I ain't going to be any of these like.

[1332] And I remember Shane laughing so hard about that.

[1333] But what I was saying was, it was that kid.

[1334] It was just like that time.

[1335] Like, it's that feeling of endlessness.

[1336] Endless opportunity.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] So I do understand that.

[1339] Yeah, it's really, really titillating.

[1340] Okay, Star Wars.

[1341] Star Wars.

[1342] The Rise of Skywalker.

[1343] Before this, you did burn this on Broadway with Adam Driver.

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] Now, I understand musicals are harder in that the output, like the toll on your body is probably harder.

[1346] But that aside, the schedule, I don't think I could ever do it.

[1347] It's a beat down of a schedule, isn't it?

[1348] Beat down.

[1349] It's rough, right?

[1350] Oh my God.

[1351] Like, I feel like I weighed like 80 pounds by then.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] And also, you know what?

[1354] Bottom line, when you have little kids, you got to put them down at night.

[1355] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1356] That's when they talk.

[1357] That's when they see all their little things, especially now I have a 12 year old, a 7 year old, and a 3 year old.

[1358] But the 12 year old, that's when you hear anything.

[1359] Because everything else is like, they come home, you're like have school and they're like yeah you're like okay see yeah do you want to invite uh call in and rem me over tonight no get real mom okay see yeah so you have to put them down and you know that was hard i really that was hard yeah yeah and not to mention it was just such an emotional dark play anyway i mean i start the play crying i end it it's just like you're sobbing you're you're you're being yelled at and sunday morning i was like this again can someone not fucking yell at me today Jesus Christ Well that is one thing too That Americans as well Were you able to shrug that stuff off You know like Yes the Americans You know when you're filming It's so compartmentalized You can walk off and have a coffee Yeah yeah yeah yeah check out Do whatever check out for a minute And you have to do that hard thing For a really concentrated amount of time A finite amount of time there's something at a play it's just like reliving it and reliving it and reliving it you're like I don't want to live this in a city yeah yeah I mean maybe maybe that's why I'm not like a true true act because there was a certain point where I was like it just felt like a beat down and it was the nature of that play anyway I mean my character is sort of the punching bag on the being yelled at constantly and I was just like I do think there's something energetically to it you know you can't be yelled at that right at a certain point I was like where I get to fucking fight back no yeah did JJ direct the Star Wars Yes.

[1360] Oh, we did.

[1361] And so was it all over the world or was it in England?

[1362] Where was it?

[1363] We were in London at Pinewood where they shot the original.

[1364] Oh, were you a Star Wars person?

[1365] The originals, totally.

[1366] You were.

[1367] I can't imagine you've ever worked on anything that had that scaled at it.

[1368] I mean, Mission Impossible is obviously huge.

[1369] But Star Wars, that's like, it's just the biggest circus ever to be.

[1370] The biggest circus ever.

[1371] And the amount of artistry and creativity and money that goes into every little thing.

[1372] It's kind of the way they used to make movies.

[1373] movies, you know, like a John Houston movie or one of those movies where you go and you're going to live somewhere for a year and you're just going to dive in and, you know, even when I was 15 and doing big Disney movies, like Honey I Shrunk the Kids, it was sort of the same.

[1374] You'd have to go into a costume fitting.

[1375] It was like on a lot.

[1376] Now it's all sort of cobbled together in a great way too.

[1377] There's independent film and they don't make movies like that anymore.

[1378] And Star Wars is so that movie.

[1379] I would be flown in to do four or five, fittings and they would dye the fabrics and then go no it should be this and we should have this metal to and we'll create this it was so you know it's a real creative thing instead well again you were kind of time traveling you were having an experience that just doesn't really exist anymore it doesn't exist I had the best of all worlds because I wasn't on it all the time so what I did is I would fly in Matthew was doing a project in Northern Ireland we had all the kids like this great house and we would travel all around and then I would fly in on my own for like two nights have like a great hotel room go out to fancy dinners so nice and then go back to the grind back to the grind three -year -old yelling everyone's screaming at each other and then um i would do two weeks somewhere and then i i went back just before christmas and did my other two weeks so it was oh wonderful and you've seen it i haven't i have the opportunity to see it tomorrow night, but I'm like, do I want to see it with like four people?

[1380] Do you want to see Star Wars with like four people?

[1381] No, no, no, no. You want to see it with an audience.

[1382] Yes, yes, yes.

[1383] Is it exciting?

[1384] It is fun.

[1385] You know, because it's the first thing that my 12 year old legitimately thinks is cool.

[1386] Right.

[1387] And by the way, not even since that cool.

[1388] You know, he's like, oh, that's cool.

[1389] You're like, thanks.

[1390] Well, we have the only two kids that could care less that Kristen's in Frozen.

[1391] So that's just the nature of the beast.

[1392] It's the nature of the beast.

[1393] Yes.

[1394] Four and six.

[1395] But turning five in a couple weeks, so five and six.

[1396] What's the birthday?

[1397] December 19.

[1398] Because I have a December 27th.

[1399] Oh, you do.

[1400] And she doesn't quite yet understand what a bummer.

[1401] What a shitty birthday?

[1402] That is.

[1403] Like, she actually just said to me, what are we going to do for my birthday?

[1404] So I'd like to do this.

[1405] No one's coming on.

[1406] No one's in town, especially in New York City.

[1407] Great.

[1408] We'll see what we can work out.

[1409] Yeah.

[1410] So mine's January 2nd, which is terrible.

[1411] It's a bad birthday.

[1412] But at least Delta's is before.

[1413] I think it's much worse to have it just after Christmas.

[1414] You just got what you asked for.

[1415] I mean, like, we've partied enough.

[1416] We're done.

[1417] We're done.

[1418] We have fatigue.

[1419] Especially January 2nd, people just made their New Year's resolutions.

[1420] They don't want to drink.

[1421] They don't want to eat.

[1422] They want to, like, they're supposed to be at the fucking, like, work out, 24 -hour fitness instead of my birthday party.

[1423] That's right.

[1424] Okay.

[1425] I have one last question.

[1426] This is a question from my wife.

[1427] Oh, okay.

[1428] when I said I was coming to talk to you today.

[1429] She wants to know if you've gotten thin shamed over your career.

[1430] Thin shamed?

[1431] Yeah, if you've gotten accused of having eating disorders and stuff over your career.

[1432] There was a time when I remember someone saying, oh, she looks really skinny.

[1433] But you know what?

[1434] I am a thin, like.

[1435] Yeah, yeah.

[1436] And, you know, when I get stressed out, I get skinny.

[1437] You do, right.

[1438] I do.

[1439] Like, when I was going through my divorce, I got really skinny.

[1440] Uh -huh.

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] So.

[1443] But it just seems like people can't win.

[1444] win in any way.

[1445] It's like, okay, so nothing that you really are like, oh, just stop evaluating my weight.

[1446] Nothing like where you felt like it was not troublesome to you.

[1447] Not troublesome.

[1448] I mean, I'm not visible enough in a great way.

[1449] Back to what we started this conversation with.

[1450] I never had social anxiety.

[1451] I'm an extrovert.

[1452] I loved going to parties.

[1453] I loved talking to people in holding court.

[1454] And certainly over the last 17 years or whatever, I've developed social anxiety.

[1455] I too will go to a bathroom and just fucking sit in there for like 45 minutes.

[1456] Let's say 25 people at some big party, I just start getting really uncomfortable.

[1457] And a couple of different times I've been with Kristen.

[1458] I've started in the bathroom and I'm in there for 45 minutes.

[1459] And then I just leave out the back door and I text her.

[1460] I've walked back to the hotel.

[1461] Like you can take the car.

[1462] I've walked back.

[1463] I've done that probably a half dozen times.

[1464] So and I started as an extrovert.

[1465] So it's interesting.

[1466] Yeah, I think even if you are an extrovert, it can be uncomfortable.

[1467] So I can imagine your favorite thing is yeah to be recognized maybe yeah and i have to say i'm pretty lucky like people are generally pretty nice to me yeah yeah you know for the most part well you certainly delivered into my expectations because we had that great interaction at the night before party we did and i love that interaction i'm glad you didn't drive home going she is so she talked way too much no i adored you i didn't like her and christin and i both were like well she's as goddamn lovely as it gets And then we fell in love with Americans after that.

[1468] So it was all just icing on the cake.

[1469] And we wish you luck with this movie.

[1470] I doubt it'll do very well.

[1471] But Star Wars, The Rise of Skywalker, December 20th.

[1472] Thanks for having me. Bring the kin down.

[1473] Yeah, I adore you.

[1474] And, you know, everything was true.

[1475] She was really with Tony, Monica.

[1476] Tony, look up.

[1477] Tony.

[1478] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1479] Welcome to Carrie Fact Check.

[1480] She sent me a text before she came, and it was very spunky.

[1481] It was.

[1482] It said, Padman.

[1483] It's Russell.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] I loved it.

[1486] Me too.

[1487] I think you guys should be bros. I mean, I know that there's a geographical issue.

[1488] Impediment.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] Challenge.

[1491] Because she's on the East Coast of this great country, and you're on the West Coast.

[1492] I am.

[1493] The Best Coast.

[1494] Yeah.

[1495] Well, the best coast is the Fresh Coast, Lake Michigan.

[1496] No, Best Coast West Coast.

[1497] East Coast lease coast Don't you dare say I said it and I'm from there so I can say it Oh would you consider Atlanta East Coast Yes oh my God I've gotten in this fight with so many people Well how do you know we're gonna fight we might see eye to eye Well I've just gotten in this fight With so many people where They would say the South right Yes and it's still on the East Coast It can be the South and the East Coast Well, because Savannah goes right up to the water.

[1498] Yes.

[1499] All kinds of the Georgia goes up to the water.

[1500] Oh, did you guys spend a lot of time on the Georgia coast growing up?

[1501] Well, my mom's from Savannah.

[1502] My grandparents lived there.

[1503] I spent all my summers there.

[1504] Okay.

[1505] But is that on a river or on the ocean?

[1506] Now, I've stood on a bridge.

[1507] I've stood on a bridge in Savannah and watch the logs come down.

[1508] They float those logs down that river.

[1509] Mm -hmm.

[1510] Really, a sight to see.

[1511] Whole thing's clogged up with logs, but it's going as planned.

[1512] It's like a big toilet?

[1513] Well, I wish.

[1514] Lots of poops in there.

[1515] Yeah.

[1516] The aliens might think that.

[1517] I bet they do.

[1518] From that high up, it looks like a tiny toilet with lots of poops.

[1519] Yes, yes.

[1520] Anyway, it's the East Coast of America.

[1521] Okay.

[1522] And...

[1523] Also the South, right?

[1524] Also the South.

[1525] The Southeast.

[1526] Just like New York is the East Coast and the North.

[1527] Right.

[1528] So, guys, relax.

[1529] Oh, somebody's shouting.

[1530] We're still on our field trip, guys.

[1531] We're on another field trip.

[1532] Rudy.

[1533] Rudy Giuliani workspace camp here.

[1534] He works a lot of jobs.

[1535] He's a hard worker.

[1536] Things aren't working out for him as a lawyer.

[1537] But I appreciate that he's like, you know what, that's not going to stop me?

[1538] I'm going to get a job on set of a TV show.

[1539] Earn a living.

[1540] And I'm going to have one of the kind of overworked, underpaid, underappreciated job.

[1541] in America.

[1542] Low status.

[1543] Low status.

[1544] I don't think he could get hired as a PA on a movie currently.

[1545] Well, probably not.

[1546] Probably not, right?

[1547] Isn't that interesting that you could have been the mayor of New York?

[1548] Maybe the ones that film in the East Coast, Georgia.

[1549] You think they would let him be a PA?

[1550] I think someone would take great pleasure and not permitting him to have the entry -level job.

[1551] But he is fans.

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] Well, he's very famous.

[1554] We both know who we're talking about.

[1555] Rudy Giuliani.

[1556] Mayor Gugliani What do you mean we both know We've been talking about I know That's what I'm saying That's how famous he is We both know Who we're talking about Oh I see what you're saying Mayor Goliani Yeah Everyone knows him Yeah Oh did you fart That was my watch on merch Oh I think it was a fart Bobby Wob farted No you farted No you farted Blamed it on Robbie Wob No When I farted I take responsibility For it I have a history of it Of taking responsibility Yeah I did it publicly on air.

[1557] What do you mean?

[1558] When I farted in front of Liz Plank.

[1559] Oh, sure.

[1560] But that seems like you probably couldn't have blamed it on anyone.

[1561] Like it was very clearly you.

[1562] She felt the air.

[1563] Well, but I immediately said it was me in front of everyone.

[1564] I think I took a hit for that, but I earned the respect that I own it.

[1565] That's fair.

[1566] Yeah, it can't be a full loss across the board.

[1567] I have showed some integrity.

[1568] That's true.

[1569] Lack of integrity by farting in public.

[1570] but then integrity by claiming responsibility.

[1571] Then didn't you say if it wouldn't have been loud, you would have blamed it on me. If it just smelled.

[1572] Yeah, but I was teasing.

[1573] I wouldn't really do that.

[1574] I would have blamed her.

[1575] It's not lagging.

[1576] Ooh, you farted and it smells.

[1577] What's that smell?

[1578] Oh, you smell.

[1579] You smell.

[1580] Oh, did you step in something?

[1581] Is that what you would have done, Monica?

[1582] If you farted and it stunted, you have said, oh, I think I stepped on dog poop out.

[1583] No, I would have just been silent.

[1584] I wouldn't have addressed it.

[1585] I definitely wouldn't have said, oh, I'm sorry, I did that.

[1586] that do you think anyone carries around um novelty store poop and then just they just throw it on the ground and then put their foot over it and go oh i just stepped in this if someone's like got a real problem with toots i like that plan i think it's a good plan it's a pretty good plan um should we tell the listeners the update of the house saga it's complete oh yes monica got her house.

[1587] I did.

[1588] Now Wabi and Monica are homeowners.

[1589] Yep, it's very exciting.

[1590] It was such a long time.

[1591] And you went to a courthouse and actually did a live bid.

[1592] We had to auction for it in the courthouse.

[1593] It was extremely exhilarating, scary, traumatic, traumatic, some would say.

[1594] Wow, PTSD.

[1595] Yeah.

[1596] And you were with your mother.

[1597] Yeah, Kristen came with me She was a bit of a secret weapon Uh -huh I have a little bit of remorse You do Yeah for bringing her Oh you do?

[1598] Well, it was not fair Well, it was not fair To the other people Well, that's fair and love in war Well, that's what they say That's what they say And you're at war I would go to war for it I was technically at war You were technically engaged in conflict They called it a war When we arrived there They said room 2 -03 for the war The war is now ready.

[1599] And the judge hit the gavel and said, let the war commence.

[1600] That's right.

[1601] But I got to imagine it's a very low percentage of people on planet Earth who have stood in a courtroom and bid on something.

[1602] I know.

[1603] You're the first person I've ever met that was in that situation.

[1604] Me too.

[1605] It was exciting.

[1606] It felt like new ground.

[1607] So we had to go down the line and say our last name yes or no to each bid as it was increasing.

[1608] It wasn't like a, huh, nah, nah, wasn't one of those.

[1609] And then, dandy coming on to the right time.

[1610] Exactly.

[1611] It wasn't that.

[1612] I wish it was.

[1613] But it was more of a civil war, if you will, where we were acting civil.

[1614] Oh, civil.

[1615] Yeah, we were acting civil.

[1616] As soon as we started, my competitive gear kicked in.

[1617] It did.

[1618] Yeah, and I was like, mm -mm.

[1619] I wonder if I would have lost because I don't have the, you know, I don't have the winners, the heart of a winner like you.

[1620] Yeah, it turned into a real competition, and they didn't know I was super experienced.

[1621] And experienced in competing.

[1622] What do you think your heart rate was at during this?

[1623] Did it get, did it spike?

[1624] I would say 200.

[1625] No. It was very high.

[1626] It was elevated?

[1627] Yeah.

[1628] Any perspiration?

[1629] But I don't think people could tell.

[1630] I was very cool under fire.

[1631] Oh, okay.

[1632] Ice in your veins.

[1633] But you said the other folks were showing their cards a little bit.

[1634] They were wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

[1635] Only once it got towards the end.

[1636] Uh -huh.

[1637] You knew you guys have.

[1638] He was a fair competitor, my rival.

[1639] Okay.

[1640] But then towards the end, you could hear it in his voice.

[1641] he was starting to question.

[1642] And crumble?

[1643] And crumble a bit from the inside out.

[1644] Okay.

[1645] Yeah, and I knew it.

[1646] I was like, oh, I got this.

[1647] And did you just feel glee that you had defeated your opponent or did you feel bad for him in the moment?

[1648] In the moment, in the moment, I felt, I only felt victory.

[1649] I didn't even feel happy about the house.

[1650] Oh, okay, just the victory.

[1651] Just like, okay, I won.

[1652] Uh -huh.

[1653] I won, I won.

[1654] Oh.

[1655] I won.

[1656] I won.

[1657] I won you lose No I was just like oh my gosh wow Okay that's over I won and then everyone's like Congratulations congratulations That's a great house And I was like oh yeah Right you just saw red Oh yeah my house I don't even want it I just wanted to win What if you sold it to the guy immediately after For a loss Could have You're like I just wanted to win I like winning And but then later that night, you started thinking about his feelings and her feelings and their life.

[1658] I do.

[1659] I feel sad that they lost something they wanted and they put in the same amount of time I put into this, which is a lot.

[1660] So I felt bummed out for them, but also they're going to find their house that's theirs that's meant to be that they love.

[1661] Uh -huh.

[1662] But their family doesn't live next door that I know of.

[1663] Right.

[1664] Mine does.

[1665] That's right.

[1666] And we are going to be, oh, Elon Musk, if you're listening.

[1667] I'm sure you are.

[1668] I'm sure you're a huge fan of the show.

[1669] We want you to bring your boring equipment over.

[1670] And we would like to drill a tunnel from our house to Monica's.

[1671] A channel.

[1672] A channel.

[1673] That's right.

[1674] Between the channel.

[1675] And when he says boring equipment, he's not doing a judgment on your equipment.

[1676] Like, oh, that's boring.

[1677] No, it's not yawn.

[1678] No, no. It's the actual mechanism.

[1679] Bore.

[1680] Boring.

[1681] Yeah.

[1682] into the ground.

[1683] We need that.

[1684] I would love a tunnel.

[1685] But you know what?

[1686] I'd be scared in that tunnel.

[1687] You would?

[1688] Oh, yeah.

[1689] Even though the only entry points were our houses?

[1690] I'd be scared of collapsing.

[1691] Oh, okay.

[1692] Well, what if it was reinforced with some concrete with rebar in it?

[1693] I guess if Elon Musk is doing it, I'll feel pretty confident.

[1694] Yeah.

[1695] Does he have experience in channel building?

[1696] He does, yeah.

[1697] The boring company's done quite a bit of boring.

[1698] All right.

[1699] Well, that's boring.

[1700] It's in a very exciting.

[1701] company.

[1702] Okay.

[1703] Well, that was a big update for everyone.

[1704] H &R.

[1705] Block, all the pain and strife led me here.

[1706] Yeah, you're here.

[1707] Okay, Carrie.

[1708] I love that she has spent so much time in Michigan and has reverie for it.

[1709] Yeah.

[1710] She really likes it.

[1711] Yeah, she does.

[1712] That makes me like her more.

[1713] Okay.

[1714] If you like my home state.

[1715] Wow, that's very selfish of you.

[1716] so your mom met Carrie oh yeah that was so sweet that Carrie remembered it is sweet and it's so funny your mom has spoken so many words about you to all of these random Hollywood actors it's basically your worst nightmare you know like when you're a young actor in your mom's out saying do you know my son it's pretty much your worst fear but I'm at a vantage point in life that it's very cute yeah and I'm most certainly would do it if Lincoln was in show business and I was meeting young show business people.

[1717] Oh, my daughter, Lincoln?

[1718] Yeah, that's, it's very cute.

[1719] Okay, so Dan, you, you, you touch on the Dan Savage study about controlling for slut shaming and safety.

[1720] So I'm going to read what Dan said exactly.

[1721] Okay.

[1722] There's a study where they sent attractive young women on a college campus and offered anonymous sex and 98 % of the guys said yes and they reversed that and all the women said no and then they read to the study in Germany and controlled for violent slut shaming rape and they did it with computers and showed pictures and said you know these people are at the end of the hall no one will ever know you won't be harmed there'll be no violence and women were as likely as men to say yes that's what dan said I believe there was a big difference but I do still find it hard to believe it was equal.

[1723] Well.

[1724] I'm still hanging on to that bit of...

[1725] You just refused to hear that part?

[1726] No. I mean, do you have that at all?

[1727] Do you have any residual?

[1728] Like, it's one thing to learn something new, but to like stomach it on a cellular level where you're like, yeah, I knew it.

[1729] I still go like, I would expect the number to double or quadruple or whatever when you control for those elements, but I wouldn't have predicted or expected to be on par with guys.

[1730] Sure, I get that.

[1731] I mean, guys are fucking vacuum cleaners and they're fucking like holes in the dirt.

[1732] You know, just my experience of boys growing up is like, you know, this is hyper, hyper.

[1733] These are college kids, so they're not, you know, they're probably not at the, like, sticking their penis in the dirt stage.

[1734] In the microwave, okay.

[1735] I think they've gotten over that part.

[1736] Right.

[1737] But I see what you mean.

[1738] Well, you know, I tell you when I was very young, I used to put my penis in the toilet paper, roll holder because it was circular and I was like oh that might feel good how old were you I was 11 and it was a circle shape and it seemed like oh I should put my penis in there because that's a cylinder I know but how did you even know about you already knew about oh you already had sex by then no no no not until I was 12 not till way later this is like the very first boners yeah You had sex almost only a year or two after you first started getting boners.

[1739] That's so rare.

[1740] Wow.

[1741] Yeah, I was on the, yeah.

[1742] Right?

[1743] Well, yeah.

[1744] Well, it's hard to remember exactly.

[1745] I'm sure I got boners all the time.

[1746] I'm sure I got like boners.

[1747] I got boner riding that moped I told you about.

[1748] Yes, yep.

[1749] And I certainly got bonner's.

[1750] But the very first sexual feelings were, I want to say, at the end of fifth grade beginning of sixth grade where I was like yeah I think I told you I had a dream that I had sex with a rock on the way to school what you did not tell yes like I had um I used to walk by this huge rock in my neighborhood exford acres and I was on the corner and I had no sexual feelings towards this rock at all but I had a dream where I had a boner and I was humping the rock what and in the dream it was it was pleasurable and I assume I was probably humping my mattress yeah sure sure And then I woke up and I had all these confused feelings.

[1751] Like I had a desire to grind up against that rock.

[1752] And then I walked to school that day and I looked at that rock.

[1753] But I didn't have any attraction to the rock once I saw it in person.

[1754] But all that happened.

[1755] So I'm just saying something was like gnawing at me. Of course.

[1756] Starting in fifth grade, I believe, end of fifth grade.

[1757] That sounds, I mean, I feel like sixth grade, people were like doing something.

[1758] stuff under the bleachers.

[1759] By the way, side note, if my mother at some point on her deathbed said to me, you're three years older than we told you are, I would believe it.

[1760] I wouldn't be that shocked because I was suspiciously bigger than everyone.

[1761] And then I had sex at 12, which maybe I really had sex at 14 or 15.

[1762] No. I'm just, I'm not saying I think that's what happened, but if she said that, certain things would make sense.

[1763] So you think you're 47?

[1764] I might be 47 or so, yeah.

[1765] We already, we just established on the last fact check that you are actually younger.

[1766] You look young.

[1767] You only look a couple years older than me who looks 24.

[1768] Not true, not true.

[1769] Yeah.

[1770] Not true.

[1771] Yes, it is.

[1772] Well, thank you.

[1773] It's not a compliment.

[1774] Oh, okay.

[1775] It's just the facts.

[1776] Oh, okay.

[1777] Then I'm, I'm sorry.

[1778] I don't thank you and I'm sorry.

[1779] Okay.

[1780] What if your parents told you?

[1781] Monica, we have something to tell you, you're two years younger than we told you.

[1782] Also mildly believable, right?

[1783] Yeah, but then I would be like, oh my God, that's great news.

[1784] Yeah, you graduated at 14 or something.

[1785] I started kindergarten when I was two.

[1786] Yeah, a vonder kid.

[1787] I would love that.

[1788] What if they just said to you two, they go, we have something to tell you, you're a vunder kid.

[1789] We want to tell you this before we die.

[1790] You're a vunder kid.

[1791] I would love that.

[1792] Oh, you would.

[1793] I would be shocked at all.

[1794] I wouldn't be shocked at all.

[1795] No one said it.

[1796] Well, if you're really just 26.

[1797] Oh, 26.

[1798] If I was 26, I would have started kindergarten at zero.

[1799] Minus two.

[1800] Minus two.

[1801] That's not possible, I guess.

[1802] What if they were just bringing a newborn baby to kindergarten, putting you in a bassinet?

[1803] I just pictured that as well, sitting at a desk.

[1804] Take your first steps in third grade.

[1805] Oh, man. No, I was a wonder kid.

[1806] Yeah, that's right.

[1807] So I would have taken a mat.

[1808] Six months old.

[1809] Anywho, I forget what I was going to say.

[1810] Oh, I guess just sex.

[1811] You had it so early.

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] Yeah, I apologize.

[1814] For what?

[1815] I'm teasing.

[1816] I feel like that deserves, like, I'm supposed to say I'm sorry.

[1817] Or I regret it or something.

[1818] No. But I don't.

[1819] No one's asking you to say that.

[1820] Well, I think people are rightfully troubled by that.

[1821] Well.

[1822] Because there are certainly, you can think of some 12 -year -olds where you're like, oh, my goodness, they're babies.

[1823] Yeah.

[1824] But I was 5 '10 and 155 pounds.

[1825] I mean, just because you were a tall morphins.

[1826] I was already in the upper 10 percentile of male size.

[1827] I know, but that doesn't mean your brain was mature.

[1828] Well, I think in my case it was because I, too, was a funder kid.

[1829] like you.

[1830] Oh, you were.

[1831] Yes.

[1832] But you were the opposite.

[1833] Yep.

[1834] So you weren't a Wonderkin.

[1835] No, well, if we find out.

[1836] I call it a kin.

[1837] And you say Wonderkin.

[1838] And I'm saying Vunderkid.

[1839] I wonder if it's Wunderkin or Wonderkid.

[1840] I think it's, I'm saying wonder kinned.

[1841] Oh.

[1842] Yeah.

[1843] Okay.

[1844] Well, I think it's a German thing.

[1845] I know.

[1846] Funderbar.

[1847] But I think it's spell with a W. you.

[1848] Right, but they pronounce their devils.

[1849] I just don't do that.

[1850] I don't do accents.

[1851] Oh, right, right, right, right.

[1852] You don't do characters.

[1853] Okay.

[1854] She was in the Mickey Mouse Club.

[1855] That's exciting.

[1856] The all new Mickey Mouse Club.

[1857] Yeah, and that had Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake, Ryan Gosling.

[1858] Oh, the list goes on and on.

[1859] That's really where the list stops.

[1860] Oh, okay.

[1861] No, there's a lot of people, but I wish I was on it.

[1862] You do?

[1863] Yeah.

[1864] Yeah, you would have been great.

[1865] I would have loved it.

[1866] Mm -hmm.

[1867] You would have played Minnie Mouse a lot.

[1868] Oh, did they do that?

[1869] Yuck.

[1870] I don't think they played, I don't know.

[1871] I've never seen a single episode.

[1872] We like love it and we wish we were on it, but I've never seen a single episode.

[1873] Okay, Tony Luca, he was on Parenthood, season two, episode 12 called Meet the New Boss.

[1874] His song was called Like Love.

[1875] I'm going to listen to it.

[1876] Yeah.

[1877] I'm going to love it.

[1878] You know, that's where I get most of my music is watching TV and then downloading songs.

[1879] I know.

[1880] I like this about you.

[1881] It's a very cute thing that most of your music comes from TV shows you like.

[1882] Well, I like it because there's a memory associated.

[1883] Right.

[1884] You connect a whole emotional tableau to it.

[1885] That's right.

[1886] Speaking of that, I'll skip ahead because she says that she thought they used the Van Morrison song Sweet Thing in the scene and the Americans with a young 15 -year -old.

[1887] I remember a scene with the two of them in music so strongly and it was so impactful but it wasn't that song and then I looked it up and I don't think that song is in the show but this, it's this song I'm going to play some of it.

[1888] Oh wow, okay, this is great.

[1889] Okay.

[1890] Multimedia.

[1891] Oh, is it Cindy Lopper?

[1892] No. Annie Lennox?

[1893] The arrhythmics.

[1894] Daniel Day Lewis.

[1895] It's not really a guessing game.

[1896] Oh.

[1897] That's not the arrhythmics?

[1898] Who is it?

[1899] Yes.

[1900] Oh, yes.

[1901] Real simple.

[1902] 80s music, they'd just get on that cheap keyboard and they would bang out like three chords of the goofy synth sound.

[1903] And we loved it.

[1904] I still love that song.

[1905] I love that scene.

[1906] They're sitting together outside on some steps.

[1907] Yes.

[1908] And they just seem so kid -like.

[1909] Yeah, ooh, that's good.

[1910] Have you noticed I keep saying yes instead of yes?

[1911] Oh.

[1912] I was trying to make you laugh.

[1913] I said yes probably six times and you missed it.

[1914] That's how you talk.

[1915] You say that.

[1916] Well, I say yes.

[1917] It sounds a lot like yes.

[1918] Almost the exact same.

[1919] Wabi, you're shaking your head.

[1920] It's pretty close.

[1921] You're shaking your head, yes.

[1922] Anyway, so music can really take things to a new level.

[1923] Oh, sure, sure.

[1924] In case people needed to know that.

[1925] It'll push a scene in the emotional direction.

[1926] Oh, yeah.

[1927] Oh, yes.

[1928] So we talked about seeing movies by ourselves.

[1929] Mm -hmm.

[1930] I like it.

[1931] I like it.

[1932] Yeah, it's nice.

[1933] Yeah.

[1934] That's all.

[1935] Well, I saw a movie by myself this weekend.

[1936] Yeah, you saw Parasite.

[1937] Oh.

[1938] Great, great movie.

[1939] Great movie.

[1940] Depressing.

[1941] What do you give that?

[1942] Because I'm, I gave it an 87.

[1943] Oh, my God.

[1944] I don't like your scoring system at all.

[1945] That movie's in the 90s.

[1946] Okay, okay, that's fine.

[1947] I'll give it a 92.

[1948] Okay, great.

[1949] I can't give it 100.

[1950] You want me to give it 100, and I can't.

[1951] I want you to give some movies 100, for sure.

[1952] But that doesn't know.

[1953] Yeah.

[1954] We have Salma Hayek.

[1955] Like, I'm not withholding the tens.

[1956] Okay, great.

[1957] Good for you.

[1958] That's your prerogative.

[1959] Yeah.

[1960] I will never give anyone a hundred.

[1961] Godfather.

[1962] 62.

[1963] Oh, my God.

[1964] Get out of my trailer.

[1965] This is sacrilegious.

[1966] Goodwill hunting's a 99.

[1967] Oh, my.

[1968] Monica, Monica.

[1969] Don't act like it's not.

[1970] Don't fight me on this.

[1971] Do you think that a gymnast should never get a hundred?

[1972] A 10, perfect 10?

[1973] Hmm.

[1974] Um, kind of.

[1975] Oh, wow.

[1976] I mean, no, no, I do.

[1977] Maybe that's what this is all base.

[1978] I just wonder when it stems from, you can get a hundred on a test.

[1979] Oh, I get them all the time.

[1980] I got them all the time.

[1981] You are vomitous.

[1982] You get hundreds, but you won't give hundreds.

[1983] Don't peg me out.

[1984] Dax punched me once, and it hurt.

[1985] I did not punch you.

[1986] I shoved you at a three.

[1987] You shoved me at a three, which was a ten for me. To be funny, let's just be clear.

[1988] I'm just kidding.

[1989] Well, no, I just wanted to be painfully clear to everyone listening.

[1990] That it was a joke shove, and it was a three.

[1991] And you acted like it was a ten.

[1992] It did feel like a joke.

[1993] You acted like it was a 10.

[1994] It felt like a 10.

[1995] I got bowled over.

[1996] I fell on the floor.

[1997] My hair fell out.

[1998] Well, your hair fell out.

[1999] Listen, if I gave you a 10, you'd die.

[2000] You'd die.

[2001] Well, yes, because apparently a 10 in your book is other people's hundreds.

[2002] Because you gave me a quote, three.

[2003] I gave you a three.

[2004] And it was a 7 for real.

[2005] It was for real a 7.

[2006] No, it wasn't.

[2007] It was 30 % of what I was.

[2008] capable of.

[2009] Oh, my God.

[2010] I could have 3 .1 times it.

[2011] Yeah, great.

[2012] I give it a 92.

[2013] I just up my score.

[2014] Okay.

[2015] Well, no, that's what you said a second ago.

[2016] I mean, I opted for 87.

[2017] Then you went to 92.

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] And you want to stay there.

[2020] I'm going to stay.

[2021] Or do you have like a 93?

[2022] Okay.

[2023] Okay.

[2024] And I don't think Rob has these types of, this type of scrutiny.

[2025] Do you have any hundreds?

[2026] Mm -hmm.

[2027] Probably not.

[2028] Oh, Rob's like me. You guys are snobs.

[2029] Really, Pulp Fiction's out 100.

[2030] I give it a 90.

[2031] Oh, a 90.

[2032] Oh, my God.

[2033] An A minus.

[2034] Anyway.

[2035] Back to serious parasite.

[2036] People should see that.

[2037] It's about social class warfare.

[2038] Discrepancies.

[2039] Yeah, the inequality within class structure.

[2040] It's so good.

[2041] Good.

[2042] Ooh.

[2043] So the elephant man's real name is Joseph Merrick.

[2044] There we go.

[2045] Yeah.

[2046] People sometimes think his name is John.

[2047] Oh, they do.

[2048] Because there is this whole discrepancy.

[2049] And you know how I know most about this?

[2050] Huh.

[2051] Because Bradley's interview with Jimmy Fallon.

[2052] Oh, you rewatched it.

[2053] Yes.

[2054] I rewatch it.

[2055] So, I mean, I think everyone knows by now because we talk about it a lot.

[2056] But Bradley Cooper went on Jimmy Fallon to promote him doing.

[2057] the elephant man play and they're wearing these funny hats from a previous bit and then they start laughing and they can't stop laughing for like 11 minutes yeah and they keep trying to talk about the serious play and then they're laughing it's so funny and infectious anyway joseph merrick is his name okay okay you said the russians okay i was confused of what you guys were saying about the russians winning world war two well the russians think they won world war two that i know yeah they did and then you're saying they did yes okay when you look at the thing that crippled germany that stopped their momentum and changed the entire course of the war it was the storming of stalingrad they were supposed to leave before winter came and hitler who was now fully addicted to opiates and meth and all this other stuff insisted they weighed out the winter and fight on and he would not let them retreat and they lost just a humongous significant chunk of their forces in that battle.

[2058] Right.

[2059] It was just all downhill from there.

[2060] Then we arrive on D -Day and then we win countless battles and just had, you know, had they not made that decision in Russia, they would have likely been a lot more victorious against us for a lot longer time okay yeah that's all that's all yeah well I love you I love you and uh hope one day you'll call me and you'll say just saw 100 oh never never all happen I love you I love you follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcast you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and add free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2061] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.