S7 E3: Everything to Escape Him

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] If you're in need of support, please visit something was wrong .com slash resources for a list of nonprofit organizations that can help.

[14] Some names on the podcast have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by guests on the show do not necessarily represent the views of myself or this podcast.

[16] Resources, references, source material, and sponsor info can be found in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] In 2011, the Journal of Aggression, Maltreatment, and Trauma reported that, in spite of a lack of public attention, abused parents have received, adolescent to parent violence has features that are common to all forms of family violence.

[19] Control and domination is central to domestic violence and is a preeminent concern of all parents whose youth use violence against them.

[20] Adolescents who use violence at home perceive their parents as weak and ineffective and perceive themselves as lacking power.

[21] Adolescents use violence and abuse to take power away from their parents and to control decision -making in their families.

[22] Shame works in tandem with social isolation to produce a feeling of helplessness among parents.

[23] Parents feel others will blame them for their child's violence because they have failed to control them.

[24] Families often keep the violence in their home a secret from everyone.

[25] The media and other cultural institutions play a role among the more general and systemic risk factors.

[26] Continual exposure to violent images and language can have a disinhibiting effect on adolescents.

[27] As with other risk factors, individuals are affected differently by the media.

[28] Adolescents who have personal experiences of violence at home or with peers are more susceptible to these messages, and they might add to the perception that violence is a legitimate means of resolving conflict.

[29] Mothers are more vulnerable in a single -parent family.

[30] Mothers are often physically weaker than their adolescent children and are less able to defend themselves against physical violence.

[31] Victimized parents often believe that they are causing the abuse as a result of inadequate parenting, or they feel responsible for the father's abuse towards their children.

[32] Such feelings can interfere with the parents' ability to hold her child responsible for the behavior and set limits and consequences.

[33] Abusive adolescents get the message that they are not responsible for their behavior, and lack of consequences reinforces their notion that the abusive behavior is not serious.

[34] Parents will sometimes give in and keep the peace and walk on eggshells to avoid confrontation.

[35] Ironically, violent incidents are often the result of a parent who decides to impose consequences, not the parent who, quote, gives in.

[36] Some children living with a victimized mother feel an alliance with the abusive father and develop a belief system similar to his.

[37] Children who feel they are entitled believe they have special privileges and rights that their mother should respect.

[38] A sense of entitlement is the most important feature of an abuser's belief system.

[39] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[40] know me you don't know me well you think you know me you don't know me well throughout these most difficult years my dad was absent but randomly present you know in early childhood actually you know he would be there like i have pictures it is you know my kindergarten graduation but as the years went on and our abuse compounded and things just got so much worse he was less there and I think that he could sense things were off and eventually mom reached out to him.

[41] That was a desperate move on her part.

[42] If she's not even reaching out for money, you know, she had exhausted everything legally.

[43] She knew, I think she just kind of like resigned herself to that.

[44] She knew he wasn't going to step in to be a parent suddenly.

[45] So for her to ask for help from him was a big move on her part, especially someone who believed this was kind of not her own making, but her own responsibility at least.

[46] Dad did not, did not come through at all.

[47] One time, Rory was having an episode, and I say that lightly, actually, in this situation, because it wasn't quite.

[48] He was like, I could tell he was getting worked up.

[49] And I, I think I might have been 17 at the time.

[50] And again, graduated high school.

[51] I graduated high school at 17.

[52] So I, you know, a little bit more freedom.

[53] No school schedules binding me. He was having some issues.

[54] He, he and mom were about to have an explosive fight.

[55] I could tell.

[56] And I said, you know, like, let's just take a drive.

[57] Hopped in my, what I was getting at before, my shitty old Mobile.

[58] I like inherited from my grandpa and then it was my cousins and then it was my aunts and then it was mine.

[59] The windows were stuck up.

[60] There was no AC.

[61] Like it was the antithesis of what I wanted as a first car, but I got it and I drove and I was happy to have that freedom.

[62] But, you know, I saw he needed it.

[63] So we took a drive and he was like, let's go see dad.

[64] And I remember this being such a pivotal point.

[65] We went to go see my dad.

[66] We called him to let him know we were coming.

[67] He didn't pick up, I think, or then he picked up like right before we got out there.

[68] You know, he lived in Cyprus.

[69] So like, That was basically his excuse most of the time.

[70] Oh, no, too much traffic today.

[71] I'm not going to come out like for events.

[72] So as time went on it, his excuse was traffic.

[73] So we just decided to circumvent the excuse and surprise him, I guess.

[74] He did pick up.

[75] He was super drunk.

[76] Rory, we got there and my dad wouldn't answer the door.

[77] He wouldn't.

[78] Like he was there.

[79] He was behind the door and he saw us and he wouldn't answer the door.

[80] And he went and hid in the backyard and Rory hopped the fence.

[81] to get a hold of him, like, to be like, we're here.

[82] And obviously, like, in Rory's method, is never going to be, like, the kind way.

[83] I don't know what he did.

[84] I couldn't hear.

[85] But my dad got scared shitless, called the cops.

[86] And we really didn't talk to him for a couple years at that point.

[87] And that was after mom reached out and asked for help, which was, again, very hard for her to do.

[88] And he didn't come through then either.

[89] He didn't come when we came banging on his door, literally.

[90] so dad was never going to be a resource, you know, and eventually I will learn through my own experiences and no buffer as an adult what that looked like and how he might have served us a little bit by not being present for us to see that.

[91] And I think a lot of addicts believe that.

[92] You know, when they escape a situation, they think they're doing the people a favor by not being present.

[93] And I don't know.

[94] I don't know either way.

[95] But he did not offer any help.

[96] He was not a father to Rory in any sense at any point, especially when he needed him most.

[97] I mean, how did that make you feel?

[98] I've obviously called my dad, dad, my entire life.

[99] My mom never dated anyone else, like I said.

[100] So there was no other father figure that ever stepped in.

[101] I have always called him dad, but he's never been a dad to me. It was a formality.

[102] It was like a gesture of kindness for him, to him, like extended towards him.

[103] So I don't know if it affected me, to be honest.

[104] I don't know if I ever let it affect me. I compartmentalized that situation.

[105] There were so many other things in my life that actually affected me and that were hurtful.

[106] And I just don't think I ever expected my dad to be a dad.

[107] I had never seen him be a dad up until then.

[108] I have never lived with him in my entire life.

[109] So I just don't think I ever expected it.

[110] And when we were driving out there, I knew it was a bad idea.

[111] And I can remember trying to talk about, you know, Rory out of it because it was never a good idea to see dad.

[112] It was never going to be in the state we wanted to see him in.

[113] But, you know, once Rory got an idea and he said, there was no talking about it.

[114] So I just, again, as usual, went along to try to mitigate the situation as much as I possibly could.

[115] I'm Dan Tversky.

[116] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[117] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[118] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[119] She's like, I can't.

[120] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[121] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all.

[122] these girls.

[123] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the download.

[124] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[125] Well, you were holding something back.

[126] Intentionally.

[127] Yeah, well, yeah.

[128] No, it's hysteria.

[129] It's all in your head.

[130] It's not physical.

[131] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[132] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[133] Or is it something else entirely?

[134] Something's wrong here.

[135] Something's not right.

[136] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[137] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios.

[138] hysterical.

[139] Follow hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[140] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[141] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[142] I'm Sachi Cole.

[143] And I'm Sarah Hagee.

[144] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of.

[145] all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[146] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[147] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[148] To the infamous scams of real housewife stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seem to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[149] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[150] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[151] Are you familiar at all with the term surrogate spouse?

[152] No. So I heard this concept from a friend of mine, and I haven't studied it a ton, but essentially what it is is surrogate spouse is when a parent, for whatever reason, doesn't have a partner.

[153] And so they essentially make one of their children, their partner.

[154] And that can go into adulthood to where basically any time the parent needs, you know, work done at the house or relationship advice, they're treating one of their children as that partner.

[155] Did you kind of feel torn between your brother and your mom a lot?

[156] I definitely felt like a surrogate spouse at times, although might not have known what that term meant.

[157] I know I fulfilled a role that was, for so many, you know, for lack of a better word, inappropriate for my mom, you know, and not, it was a boundary issue that she had, that she gave me these responsibilities eventually, you know, as a child, I guess I didn't really feel like it was my responsibility.

[158] When I became an adult, we definitely had big talks that I shouldn't have had to have.

[159] But I think that I stepped into that role.

[160] when I got older, when I became an adult.

[161] I think before that, my role was to be more of the golden child and maybe the shining example.

[162] And I think that was the role I gave myself.

[163] You know, when I, even though I didn't go away to college, you know, I, I kind of always felt this little guilt.

[164] Mom, mom like to say, you could have gone to UCLA.

[165] You could have gone wherever.

[166] You could have gone anywhere if you really applied.

[167] The Jewish mom guilt.

[168] It's a real thing.

[169] I just applied to C -Sun.

[170] Cal State, Northridge, that was the only school I applied to.

[171] I got in, the transfer GPA.

[172] I mean, like the, from high school is like 2 .5, so I had my way in real easy.

[173] And I just threw myself into my studies.

[174] I wanted, I thought I wanted to be a teacher at that point.

[175] And mom happened to be teaching at a school right near my university.

[176] At that time, the way things worked out, there just happened to be a. evolutionary program being launched at the school that she taught at called Arnold's All -Stars.

[177] And it was an after -school program that Arnold Schwarzenegger started.

[178] Mom's, one of her close friends, was running it, got hired.

[179] She'd be leaving her day job as a teacher to run it during the afternoon.

[180] And she hired me. Mom got me a job.

[181] So one of my very first bosses out of high school was Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[182] It was amazing.

[183] I saw him, you know, he came and spoke to us regularly, like, you know, to us, like directly.

[184] you know, me in the room full of like 30 other people, and that's it on a regular basis.

[185] And it was such an incredible experience for me as like this young kid to be given this opportunity and then also to flourish in it.

[186] I got to work on campus with mom too.

[187] I, you know, was pursuing a degree.

[188] Eventually, I found my way to psychology, probably as a result of all the shit I'd been through.

[189] And I just soared.

[190] I ended up joining a sorority in my junior year.

[191] I really found a place I felt home.

[192] Mom was like a little bit against it at first.

[193] Like, oh, you're going to pay for your friends.

[194] I hope some people say at school.

[195] And that was not how it ended up at all.

[196] You know, it was just a fabulous organization with tons of fun events.

[197] And mom saw me flourish even more.

[198] I found even more friends.

[199] And I became almost like a source of happiness for her to see and hear of all of my goodness in my life, to see her me working directly on campus with her.

[200] I also started working for my cheesy Corey Feldman website was noticed by Corey Feldman, and I got hired to run his website.

[201] So I had all of these opportunities, you know, not just with my professors and with my classes and my friends to flourish, but these professional opportunities as well.

[202] And I think that that just pissed Rory the fuck off even more.

[203] And it made Mom and I closer.

[204] She was so proud of me. And that was kind of what I lived for.

[205] I think that's probably where the people -pleasing part of my personality comes in.

[206] You know, I gained so much joy in knowing that I was giving Mom that joy.

[207] And also having some pretty badass life experiences at the same time.

[208] And I was like 17 traipsing around Hollywood of Corey Feldman.

[209] And Mom was allowing me. And Mom loved Corey, too.

[210] It was just, I think that everything that college proved to me, it proved the opposite.

[211] In Rory's perspective to him, you know, he just got angrier.

[212] You know, he met Corey a couple times.

[213] He would go to maybe event or two with me for work, but it was too much of a liability for me to bring him or for me to have him around.

[214] So he got kind of left to the wayside, I want to say.

[215] Like, mom and I just stayed at work longer.

[216] We didn't go home.

[217] We didn't have to deal with him.

[218] And when we were home, that was when shit hit the fan.

[219] holes in the walls became broken glass shower doors calling us a bitch became incessant sexist slurs you know rapid fire it was just we did everything to escape him and he did everything to kind of taint our experiences when we were around him as much as possible so it could taint our other experiences while we were gone in retrospect as i look back on those last couple years as a very almost dysfunctional, well, very dysfunctional family unit, I realized that Rory was grooming me to be his groomer.

[220] Now, all of that terminology to me is new, but because I think as time goes on in society, we learn more and we talk more, we share more about these awful experiences we've gone through, and we can understand.

[221] understand them more.

[222] And as we see more of them and learn about more of them, we can kind of categorize and grow.

[223] But what I learned, I think, was that I was, and I have immense guilt for this, but in essence becoming his aider and a better, I guess, with my friends.

[224] You know, it was probably born out of a responsibility to save mom.

[225] And I didn't realize what kind of danger all of us were in by having him around.

[226] But in my last year of college, I had gone alum for my sorority.

[227] I was only for a couple years.

[228] It was one of my best experiences.

[229] I grew so much from it, but I had a really, basically a full -time job at that point.

[230] And I was finishing up by school units, a couple, you know, in that last year I had left.

[231] It took me five and a half years to get through college.

[232] So I, you know, just wanted, I went alum so I could focus on work and school.

[233] But I, you know, definitely.

[234] partied a bit, again, probably out of wanting to be out of the house.

[235] You know, late at night, I didn't want to be there when Rory and mom were home.

[236] That was when they were going to be fighting most.

[237] So I stayed out to not have to carry that kind of responsibility to mitigate those arguments in those times when mom, you know, when he was home and I was gone and it was really bad.

[238] And mom knew and she just didn't, she didn't always, you know, fight back, so to speak.

[239] She wouldn't like physically ever touch him because he was much stronger than her at that point and because she wouldn't she didn't lay her hands on us I think that she just sometimes knew how bad it could be and I didn't want to she didn't want to admit it and she would just say take Rory to the party with you and I didn't know how bad it could be I didn't know how bad and angry he could get or how abusive he could get because again most of that latter abuse that later most physical in the most violent way was when I was out of the house, when I was working late.

[240] I had some weird hours sometimes with my work.

[241] And he took advantage of that.

[242] They often checked in and asked me like, hey, you work late?

[243] Yep.

[244] And that was when there was the most friction.

[245] And I kind of had this like pulling back at home.

[246] And I definitely interfered with my work sometimes.

[247] But, you know, family always came first for us, even when it shouldn't have perhaps or Rory shouldn't have.

[248] But so sometimes I did.

[249] I took him to a party or something to mitigate a future fight.

[250] And I feel bad because I think in that sense, and when I look back, I think he was grooming me to be his groomer.

[251] As I said, he was using me to get to other people.

[252] He could abuse.

[253] Again, maybe not in a physical way, but like a monetary way.

[254] I remember I took him to a fraternity Halloween party once, and it's so disgusting in retrospect.

[255] He dressed as a homeless person with like his military jacket.

[256] I guess in his dog tag.

[257] So there was his proof that he went to the military, although that could, I guess, be purchased at, like, a surplus store.

[258] And he actually tucked his leg into his pants and tied it off for the whole night to make it look like he was an amputee.

[259] Like, it disgusts me to say that.

[260] And he made a sign saying, we'll work for sorority girls.

[261] And he just sat there.

[262] And, you know, I guess he was expecting this, like, huge, great reaction out of everybody.

[263] they didn't get it.

[264] He didn't get it.

[265] He wasn't getting this.

[266] I don't know what he thought he was in to get with that disgusting representation.

[267] And I remember he got kind of angry and either he was like, it was like he was either going to try to manipulate the fraternity guys.

[268] He was either going to try to pick a fight because he was bored or he was going to try to join the fraternity and pretend he was a student like which he wasn't at all.

[269] He was not in school at that point.

[270] And you know, a couple of times he did like call one of our friends.

[271] And in retrospect, as I think about, that we had this kind of mutual friend and we did we all had a lot of mutual friends there was a lot of enmeshment because I would have those moments of shit I've got to have Rory along because otherwise it's just going to be too explosive at home yes you can come with me and I had some guy friends a lot of guy friends that would would welcome him you know he was kind of fun when he was like when he felt like being fun you know and he felt he was really crazy when he felt like being and I say that word very solemnly because I hate that word when it's used flippantly, but he would, he would jump on tables, he would, he literally would do anything outrageous he pot, the most outrageous thing he could possibly do, he would do.

[272] We were both employed by a summer camp for a short amount of time and like I was a star employee.

[273] Meanwhile, he got fired within almost a week or two.

[274] I remember he got caught wearing a camp shirt outside of work we weren't allowed to and like he was on, on top of a bus that he had driven.

[275] to off campus, off hours to like a outside of event, which was like totally not okay.

[276] And he took a picture and like, I don't know, at that point, if there was MySpace and he posted it or whatever, it was definitely circulated and he was fired almost instantly.

[277] This friend we had, you know, actually the mutual friend that we had was the one that got us that job.

[278] And in retrospect, I think, like Rory always had friends that were he could manipulate, but he also, found friends that were predators as well.

[279] And I think that this whole experience in all of this healing I've tried to do has really shown me that there's so much healing to be done because so many situations are abusive when we don't even know it.

[280] This friend, this mutual friend we had, I found out years later actually, like in the Me Too movement as it unfolded, as it started, that he had basically sexually assaulted me without mine knowing it.

[281] Years Years later, I found out that this mutual friend of ours, who I kind of trusted to a certain extent, you know, he was, I think he had an interest to me at one point and like, in so many words turned him down, not really, it wasn't that explicit.

[282] But years later, I found out from a girlfriend that told me he had hid in the closet to watch me have sex with one of his best friends, who I had liked.

[283] I liked him and this guy, the one who hid in the closet, stole that for me after it.

[284] I had in essence never shown any reciprocal desire to hook up or do anything with him or date him or and when my girlfriend told me she told me I should be you know take it as a compliment I realized how how many layers again there is to abuse and how many different types of abuse there is and as I share more and more about what I've gone through I realize so many people have been through so many different types.

[285] I think in the society we live in, it takes perspective.

[286] And the more we talk about it, we gain the perspective.

[287] But, you know, we come from, you know, meatballs.

[288] The original movie, there's like, isn't there a shower scene where someone's peering on the girls?

[289] And it's almost seen as, like, an experience to be gained.

[290] And that's so disgusting.

[291] And I realize that Rory found people like that.

[292] He either found people he can manipulate to help him, manipulate others, or he found other predators.

[293] Those are predators.

[294] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[295] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[296] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[297] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[298] What happens next?

[299] Depends on who you ask.

[300] Was it a crime of passion?

[301] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[302] This was clearly an intentional act.

[303] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[304] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[305] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[306] Everyone had an opinion.

[307] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[308] To end in a mistrial, it's just a, confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[309] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[310] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[311] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[312] As those years progressed, you know, I was 17 when I started college.

[313] So when I ended, it took me five and a half years to get through college.

[314] By the middle of college, the police were getting called.

[315] often.

[316] I was never home at that point, to be honest.

[317] I stayed out a lot.

[318] If it wasn't for school, you know, I worked, I went to school, I took 15 units every semester to get through.

[319] I also just flopped around a bit.

[320] So it took me a couple, like a year and a half extra just to figure out what I wanted to do, our major in.

[321] But in that time, I think he was probably getting arrested by my third year in college, oh gosh, I don't know, like every couple months, especially because I was out of the house more.

[322] When I was out of the house, just as it was when I was a child, the worst abuse was occurring when mom was gone because I was the one who was taking it in our distant future when I was in college, mom got the brunt of most of the abuse because she was the one that was home to take it, unfortunately.

[323] I would say the cops were called probably every couple months.

[324] one of the worst experiences again I was at a sorority party or fraternity party and they kind of always checked in with me you know like mom and I talked probably five or six times a day especially since we worked kind of together at that point on the same campus at least Rory and I talked at least a couple times a day to be honest texting wasn't even a thing at that point but he would call me often just probably to see if I was around if I could drive him somewhere it was always like what he needed from me. and thankfully my job and my work took precedence, but they both called me to make sure I wasn't coming home one evening.

[325] Nope, I was indisposed.

[326] I was getting a little tipsy at a party.

[327] You know, I had figured out a ride home.

[328] I am not going to be home for hours.

[329] In fact, I don't even think I had planned to come home.

[330] I was going to sleep at a girlfriend's dorm, and they knew that.

[331] And Rory, we've always been kind of movie buffs, pop culture fans.

[332] Rory pulled one of these movie moves that he had learned.

[333] And specifically from a really creepy movie that I love, a little less in retrospect maybe, but serial mom.

[334] You know, there's a scene where Kathleen Turner is on stage and, like, uses an aerosol can and a lighter to create, like, a makeshift flame thrower.

[335] And I got a phone call, a panicking phone call from my mom and my aunt hours late because I didn't have my phone on me again, no text.

[336] It was phone call time.

[337] Like I, it was like an old ass, no Kia, you know, there's no, or not even like a flip phone at that point.

[338] So I came back to like a bunch of miss calls and, you know, Rory had used this makeshift flame thrower to attack mom and jumped off of our balcony onto his, into our cars and trying to escape.

[339] And mom called the cops.

[340] And it was the same old story every single time.

[341] The cops were called.

[342] They didn't really have the faculties to deal with him.

[343] they didn't know what to do with him you know they weren't gonna if mom wasn't going to press charges and stick to them keep him in prison for assault send him to jail for three years or whatever the you know whatever it was going to be they didn't have anything they had no solutions they were like well that's it we can't help you so he would come back um mom would kick him out he she probably kicked him out i don't even know six to ten times while i was in college if not more and i can't speak from a lawyer's one of you because I don't know exactly what pressing charges looks like.

[344] But I think mom had the power to keep the charges every time.

[345] You know, there were, there were, his jail stints were various lengths.

[346] So sometimes he was there for like a week.

[347] Sometimes he was there for like three months.

[348] It was like, in our process, our legal process is so fucking slow, which I have learned in many ways, that it was just, there was so much time for him to manipulate mom into taking him back.

[349] It's just the nature of our system.

[350] It would probably take a year to get him before a judge, even, or maybe four months, six months, I don't know.

[351] So it was just too much time.

[352] She kept figuring, I think, from my perspective, is that three months in jail has been long enough.

[353] I'm sure he's learned his lesson now.

[354] And by this point, he was actually staying in men's central jail in Los Angeles.

[355] And she and I were going together to visit him occasionally.

[356] You know, of course I'm I'm in college I'm going to parties I'm going to working and I don't want to go to jail I often chose not to go it mom mom worked a lot so she was not able to go Monday through Friday it's not like she was going after work to go visit there are visiting hours you know it's very regimented so she would go every weekend he was in prison she would go visit him even if the fence and as usual every single time it was an offense that was that was executed towards her she would still go visit him and it is is so traumatizing, demoralizing, life -altering to go to jail.

[357] And I say that only from my perspective as a visitor.

[358] That's all I know.

[359] So I didn't go often.

[360] I tried to limit my visits.

[361] You know, he would call me and I would take more phone calls than I probably wanted to, but I would not visit him.

[362] Mom, I don't even know why she visited him so much.

[363] I think she felt, again, a responsibility.

[364] No one else was visiting him.

[365] Dad surely wasn't visiting him.

[366] I know he was calling dad.

[367] And I think mom probably felt bad about that too.

[368] And she was trying to compensate in a way.

[369] Now, at that point, mom, I think she knew things were never going to get better.

[370] You know, she, again, such an awful place to laugh.

[371] But it's not, it's a guffaw.

[372] I'm like guffawing at how.

[373] fucking crazy things life can be, but I don't think she ever knew things would get so bad because clearly she always had faith in Rory, undying parental faith, that one day maybe he'd turn around his life and the way he treated people and the way he saw things.

[374] But I think she ultimately knew that it wasn't going to happen.

[375] So I say this story with a grain of salt, but I saw a psychic in college.

[376] I had a girlfriend, a sorority sister, who went and saw one.

[377] You know, she found out about this.

[378] You drink a cup of coffee grounds.

[379] You see, you're told your future, and your palm is red.

[380] And I say this with a grain of salt.

[381] I am a believer of most things.

[382] I like to keep myself open.

[383] I don't shut anything out.

[384] Do I believe in psychics 100%.

[385] No. Do I disbelieve them in them 100%.

[386] No. I just want to hear it because I like to hear percent.

[387] perspective.

[388] And that was how mom was.

[389] So I went to see the psychic that my girlfriend saw.

[390] And she kind of blew my mind with some of the things that she said, things that like happened almost immediately.

[391] And I was, you know, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

[392] They're really specific.

[393] Like she gave me letters of people's names and this is who you're going to marry.

[394] This is what he's going to look like.

[395] And whether I manifested that or not, it happened.

[396] And mom always was kind of a believer too, you know, maybe even more of a believer than I was.

[397] She, you know, had gone through a lot of tragedy and I think she just really believed part of her beliefs came from her belief in guardian angels like she believed there had to be more so she believed that helped her believe in psychics too I guess so she went to see the psychic as well and when she got home I asked her you know how to go what she say and she wouldn't tell me she would not tell me I begged her pleaded with her I showed her my notes we were allowed to take notes oh this is you know nope she would not tell me and And I think I knew.

[398] I think I knew in my heart that was the moment she knew.

[399] Our situation, our relationship with Rory was never going to get better.

[400] And there was nothing she could do to heal the situation herself.

[401] I guess I really didn't know how serious what the psychic said to mom was or how gravely she took it.

[402] until one day we were coming home from visiting Rory in jail, again, you know, the mood was somber.

[403] We didn't really talk that much, I guess you would say, on those trips home.

[404] We eat, you know, listen to music, try to just kind of unwind and digest what we had seen and felt and done and experienced.

[405] And this time she did.

[406] She actually explained to me that she had gotten her affairs in order.

[407] She talked to me about some life insurance and her will and how she had drawn it up.

[408] Part of me was hoping it was because she had just had the chance to buy her first home on her own, you know, and she was proud to, like, bestow that upon us.

[409] But I could definitely see it in her eyes.

[410] That was not her reasoning.

[411] Her reasoning was she just knew Rory was never going to get better.

[412] And in fact, he was only going to get worse.

[413] I remember one of my happiest memories with my mom was coming home from a fraternity party, pretty late at night.

[414] Girlfriend dropped me off or whatever fraternity brother, I don't remember.

[415] I was a little tipsy.

[416] And mom, like at two in the morning, was like, hey, you want to go to Tommy's?

[417] She heard me come in.

[418] And we went to Tommy's and, you know, just had some greasy food.

[419] And that's how we bonded.

[420] And we especially bonded in those years in that last.

[421] year.

[422] You know, we got super freaking close.

[423] We were still working on the same campus at that point.

[424] I still saw her throughout the day.

[425] I still talked to her all day long, not consistently, but intermittently.

[426] And it just, I think probably stratified Rory even more when he was out of jail.

[427] It made him feel angrier and maybe more isolated because he came home to us being happier.

[428] And maybe my career even thriving more.

[429] You know, I had finished.

[430] working for Corey Feldman by that point and moved on just to focusing on the after -school program, but Arnold had stepped down from that, and it just still, the program was flourishing, and I was flourishing, and mom, you know, had actually completely gone back to work.

[431] She had overcome this immense disability, these immense trials with her son, kind of, overcoming, and she had found this new career as a high school teacher.

[432] That was, like, her dream to teach high school.

[433] school and she finally made it there in her last couple years.

[434] And she was just so happy.

[435] She wrote a math book.

[436] And we were like peddling it in Palm Springs together at this annual math conference.

[437] And that got us closer even more.

[438] You know, we did some traveling together.

[439] We went to Mexico, girls trip.

[440] I don't think Rory was in jail at that time.

[441] Because I think I remember him having a party.

[442] And like mom's prize leather couch was ripped when we got home.

[443] And, you know, whatever.

[444] he blamed it on.

[445] But I just, it was just a very bonding, but stratifying and weird time for our family.

[446] There was a lot of positives and so many negatives.

[447] And I think once I really realized in the last few months of our familyhood, if you will, I couldn't, I couldn't be around him of 2007, I finished college.

[448] Mom and I kind of argued a little bit because I didn't want to walk on stage.

[449] It was like, you know, a 50 ,000 person at graduation or something.

[450] I was like, no, thank you.

[451] That's a lot of people.

[452] And she sent me an email.

[453] You know, mom and I never fought.

[454] We never ever raised our voices at each other.

[455] We either couldn't talk to us or we like, silent treated each other a little bit or we like, there were emails passed, you know, to deal with things because it was talking about these things were hard for us.

[456] But we could totally communicate.

[457] It was just face to face, I guess.

[458] or we just had to hug it out I remember just climbing into bed with her and falling asleep like butt to butt and that was the way we would work it out just like moving on and understanding each other I remember like you know this little tiff we went through because I didn't want to walk and she was like fine I just have to understand it just like your tattoos I have to understand your tattoos and accept them okay I have to understand your boyfriends who speak rudely to me but okay I was dating someone maybe not so great at that point and we broke up I had this great job I was just out of the house.

[459] I was trying to date as much as possible.

[460] Mom was throwing herself into work as much as possible just out of college.

[461] I really learned, despite all the friction at home, how to be relatively independent, like, sort of, and that I could provide for myself.

[462] Mom was so industrious.

[463] Not only did she teach her entire life, but she always had like a side business.

[464] She wrote a math book, like I said.

[465] She was the chocolate lady and, you know, made, like, holiday chocolates and wedding chocolates and whatever.

[466] She made cedar hangers so people wouldn't get their clothes bit by moths.

[467] You know, she was always trying a side hustle.

[468] And I saw, like, this, you know, single mom overcome a disability and, like, some crazy shit.

[469] This abusive son, abusive husband.

[470] I knew happiness and independence was possible.

[471] I knew I could provide for myself.

[472] And all I wanted was freedom, like pure freedom.

[473] I didn't want to have to go back to that house and that friction.

[474] And I wished for it so hard.

[475] And then I got it in an instant.

[476] And I did not want it anymore.

[477] Next time.

[478] Something Was Wrong is produced and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[479] Music on this episode from Glad Rags.

[480] check out their album Wonder Under.

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