The Abortion Wars, Part 2: The Illinois Option

[0] What did you do in the clinic?

[1] What I did was counsel people who called, and then we would talk to these people on the phone.

[2] And we had explained all that to them, that here was a state of Missouri where you could not get an abortion, but here was the state of New York where you could go by an airplane.

[3] You can go to a good clinic there with obstetricians, well -trained obstetricians.

[4] You can go there in the morning and you could come back at night, just that kind of thing.

[5] People just didn't know about that at all.

[6] Vivian, what were some of the stories that they told you?

[7] You were talking to them a lot.

[8] My mother will kill me. And, oh, I can't go down to that line of people because my sister's down there protesting against abortion, you know.

[9] And believe me, this girl who said, oh, I couldn't do that.

[10] is the girl who next week will be walking in that line.

[11] You just can't imagine how it used to be.

[12] Until it hits you, it's always, you know, oh, you shouldn't to do that.

[13] But when hits your family, all of a sudden you wake up and you realize that sometimes there are no other answers.

[14] That's not going to solve your problems.

[15] From the New York Times, think about that.

[16] You're here to kill somebody.

[17] Guys.

[18] From the New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi.

[19] This is the Daily.

[20] Come on, guys, thou should not kill, you know that.

[21] Today, the second half of our story on abortion in America told through two states, Missouri, where it's going away, and Illinois, where it's increasingly protected.

[22] You're good people, but you're doing a terrible thing.

[23] Come on, guys, don't do this.

[24] In the first few months of 2019, the fight over abortion has taken a new turn.

[25] The Supreme Court has changed.

[26] And now, red states that have long wanted to ban abortion are seeing an opening, one in their favor.

[27] How about it, guys?

[28] It's not too late, as long as your baby's heart's beating.

[29] Happy Father's Day, man, because you'll always be his daddy.

[30] We're here to see Dr. King.

[31] I'm Lindsay Garrison and Sabrina Taubrey on the door all the way to the top stairs.

[32] Thank you for your recent top status, which is playing on the wall.

[33] Top status.

[34] Thank you so much.

[35] In the last few months alone, four states have passed bans on abortion after six weeks.

[36] That's before most women even know they're pregnant.

[37] 13 states are following suit.

[38] Missouri is one of them.

[39] She's saying grow a bag bound to that man in a backpack who was like totally flipping her off, give those babies up for adoption.

[40] So Missourians are turning.

[41] to Illinois because their own state has made it too hard.

[42] Daily producer Lindsay Garrison and I went to one abortion clinic right across the state line in Illinois.

[43] It's called Hope Clinic for Women.

[44] Like our operating room?

[45] And we spent the day there with three different patients who were getting abortions.

[46] Hi, good morning.

[47] How are you?

[48] It's Thursday, April 18th.

[49] What's the for women.

[50] How's why I love you?

[51] Chapter 3.

[52] The Patients.

[53] We get to the clinic in the morning.

[54] I'm sorry?

[55] It's busy.

[56] Did you take a pregnancy test at home and was it after?

[57] All right, I got you in here for the first time.

[58] We'll have to make sure you're right at 8, okay?

[59] It's really busy.

[60] It's very busy.

[61] Yeah, it's very busy.

[62] Okay, that will be at 8 a .m. So we need for you to shower where comfortable clothing eat before you get here.

[63] Once you get here, you cannot consume anything other than water.

[64] If you want sedation, you must have a driver with you.

[65] Either way, there has to be a car here, so you cannot be dropped off and picked up.

[66] We have protesters that line our sidewalks.

[67] They are not allowed on our property.

[68] And then expect to be here for six to eight hours on the day of your appointment.

[69] All right, do you have any questions?

[70] All right, so then we will see you on Friday, the 31st, at 8 a .m. You're welcome.

[71] Bye.

[72] How many of those do you think are from women from Missouri?

[73] Quite a bit or from Missouri.

[74] I would say about just guessing maybe like 60 to 70 % are Missouri presidents.

[75] Mm -hmm.

[76] I agree.

[77] Well, it's always been majority of Missouri in my mind ever since I've been here.

[78] Mm -hmm.

[79] We walk to the back to see Dr. King, the head doctor.

[80] Hi, guys.

[81] Hi.

[82] Hi.

[83] This is our counseling station.

[84] Who has Tiffany's chart?

[85] I do.

[86] And then we meet a patient named Tiffany.

[87] Is my picture going to be in a paper?

[88] No. Okay, good.

[89] That's how I'll do a photo.

[90] Okay.

[91] The counselor asks her if she's sure.

[92] I'm just 100 % confident.

[93] This is the right decision for me. I'm glad.

[94] I'm glad.

[95] So this next part is just going over the sent forms, I'm going to play a recording that's going to read through them with you, and if you could just go through an initial buy everything, and then print sign a date when you're done.

[96] If you have any questions, let me know.

[97] Okay.

[98] Abortion risks, benefits, and alternatives.

[99] Women who are pregnant can decide to continue or end the pregnancy, and depending on the outcome of the pregnancy, can then decide to parent or place a child for adoption.

[100] You need to consider your choices carefully to be able to make the best decision for yourself.

[101] I understand research has shown the majority of women experience feelings of relief and have no major regret after an abortion.

[102] However, some women may, and do experience guilt, sadness, depression, and or regret following an abortion, just as they may experience these reactions after giving birth.

[103] I understand these feelings can range from violence.

[104] Do you have any questions about any of that information?

[105] No, I would like smoke cigarette before.

[106] You can do that.

[107] When you leave my office, you can go smoke a cigarette.

[108] Just let the front desk know, so they're not looking for you.

[109] Okay, I'm good.

[110] Okay.

[111] So we followed Tiffany outside to the lobby.

[112] I'm going to go smoke a cigarette real quick, and then I'll let you know when I come back up.

[113] Okay.

[114] Then downstairs.

[115] I can't wait for this to be over.

[116] To a little bench outside the front doors of the clinic.

[117] It was quiet there.

[118] Almost immediately were spotted by a protester.

[119] First -degree murder of a baby.

[120] No, you don't know me and you have no idea what's going on in there.

[121] You think you do and I respect that, but it's not what you think.

[122] I have no fucking choice.

[123] So if you could get out of my face.

[124] You know what?

[125] Yes, you do.

[126] You can put it up for adoption.

[127] Well, you're killing my spirit right now.

[128] What do you think of her butt?

[129] I think she can fuck off.

[130] I'm back.

[131] How are you feeling?

[132] Um, definitely ready.

[133] Tomorrow, after the day, it's going to be over, you know, and I can go back to my life and focus on my 14 -year -old daughter and my career.

[134] What's your job today?

[135] Oh, that's me, ladies.

[136] I've got to go.

[137] She's called pretty quickly.

[138] Nice to you.

[139] You too.

[140] You too, Tiffany.

[141] We watch her walk away.

[142] Her blanket draped across her shoulders.

[143] When Tiffany found out she was pregnant, Her first thought was, maybe she could have a son.

[144] She already has a 14 -year -old daughter.

[145] But she'd been addicted to opioids until recently.

[146] And she knew a pregnancy was just too much for her life right now.

[147] She had a hard time coming up with the money for the abortion, which came to around $660.

[148] She considered selling her most valuable possession on eBay, her Eagles football gear.

[149] But then she got a grant.

[150] After Tiffany left, we sat in the waiting room.

[151] and looked at all the women.

[152] Should I read some of these?

[153] Yeah, I feel like we should pick a few.

[154] And then we spotted a guest book with entries from patients who'd passed through.

[155] It's okay, baby, don't be sad.

[156] You can try again, just not right now.

[157] Always remember love.

[158] I wanted to have a baby so bad, finally get pregnant, and I'm high risk for a miscarriage.

[159] Heavy bleeding, cramping, and blood clots.

[160] So I'm getting an abortion.

[161] It's too much.

[162] I'm sad.

[163] This one.

[164] No one knows your situation and what you have been through.

[165] Make the best decision for yourself.

[166] No one has walked a mile in your shoes.

[167] Don't let anyone judge you because they aren't perfect themselves.

[168] Hold your head up high.

[169] Make the best decision for yourself.

[170] Much love.

[171] Tiffany.

[172] I was wondering for her.

[173] I bet it was.

[174] We'll be right back.

[175] Because I have a couple people on here.

[176] Okay.

[177] She might be on there.

[178] Okay.

[179] She was just saying there's a patient.

[180] It is fine talking to you guys.

[181] Oh, cool.

[182] So should we go out and...

[183] Do you want to go see that?

[184] Yeah, yeah.

[185] And then we meet Sam.

[186] She's here with her mom.

[187] Oh, this is Sam.

[188] Yeah.

[189] Great.

[190] Well, this is Sam.

[191] Hi, Sam.

[192] She's small in a baggy sweatshirt with crop blue hair.

[193] How long have you been blue?

[194] Um, well, it changes quite often, but I think this time it's probably been blue for a couple weeks, probably four or five weeks.

[195] Okay.

[196] We walk with her down the hall to another small room, and we check the levels on our microphone.

[197] What did you have for breakfast this morning?

[198] For breakfast this morning, I had apple jacks and a granola barb.

[199] And then we asked her about getting pregnant and having to tell her mom that a period was late.

[200] I was like, hey, it hasn't come yet.

[201] And she was like, all right, well, just keep an eye out.

[202] Let me know as soon as you get it, you know, if not.

[203] And another week passed, and she just woke me up one morning, and she was like, here, I got you this, you know, I got you this pregnancy test.

[204] Best time to do it, it's right when you wake up.

[205] So here, just do it right now.

[206] And I was like, okay, and I did it.

[207] And, you know, within 30 seconds, it came up positive.

[208] And I just cried, and she hugged me. And she was like, it's okay.

[209] We'll take care of this.

[210] So I was very lucky to have her around for it.

[211] And then the doctor and Sam's mom come in.

[212] And otherwise, Sam, it looks like you are really healthy and boring, correct?

[213] Yeah.

[214] That is a good thing.

[215] It is good to be boring at the doctor's office.

[216] All right, excellent.

[217] Sam, do you want you leave?

[218] Is that okay?

[219] I'm here.

[220] Oh, yeah, you can be good.

[221] Okay.

[222] So the first thing I'm going to give you is a copy of the consent form that you have already signed.

[223] Now, I am going to sign a copy.

[224] So then you are going to get to keep.

[225] a copy that has my name and signature for your own records.

[226] Okay.

[227] Okay.

[228] All right.

[229] Water.

[230] So let me take your hand.

[231] This is the Miffitt Preston.

[232] So this one you're going to swallow for me, okay?

[233] She just take that too.

[234] Okay.

[235] And then we'll give you your antibiotic.

[236] That's the Miff and Prisons.

[237] This is your antibiotic pill.

[238] Okay, that's just to prevent infection.

[239] Swallow that one down.

[240] Get it?

[241] Okay.

[242] That's it.

[243] All right.

[244] I'll do you want any more.

[245] Yeah.

[246] So we're done with that.

[247] So you are done.

[248] So you have a followable paper And just like that, it was over.

[249] She could go home.

[250] I have a special one here.

[251] And like I was telling her, hey, we all make mistakes.

[252] And I told her not to let anyone judge her make her own decisions.

[253] And whatever her decision was that she decided I would be behind her 100 % because I love her.

[254] and she's my daughter and whatever is best for her I don't think that this is something that people should do constantly but I thank God that they made it available that we could do this and that this worked for her and it was kind of hard walking up with the people outside saying all the horrible things what did that feel like?

[255] It was horrible.

[256] Trust me I had to I had to dig real deep because there was that part of me, that I'm her mother.

[257] Don't you dare say that about my daughter?

[258] Don't you dare say that when I went back outside.

[259] Come on, Grandma, you can change your mind.

[260] You're killing your grandbaby right now.

[261] No, I'm not.

[262] Who are you to stand out there and to judge my daughter or me or anybody else here?

[263] Who are they?

[264] And I told her, I warned her.

[265] I said, listen, you go down there, just ignore it, put it out of your mind.

[266] Don't listen to them.

[267] So, I mean, everybody's entitled to.

[268] to their opinion, but that's how I feel.

[269] Has this brought you guys even closer together?

[270] We struggle.

[271] Believe it or not, we actually struggle in our relationship.

[272] We really do.

[273] But I think she knows that.

[274] I think she always knows her mother will always be there.

[275] No matter what it is.

[276] And I love her.

[277] And, I mean, I don't know.

[278] My mother loved me with all her heart, but I don't know if she could have been down here with me or But I couldn't be that way for her.

[279] I'll be there through everything.

[280] Thick, thin, hell freezes over whenever she's my kid, and I'll be there for her.

[281] I think this has probably brought us a little closer.

[282] Her boyfriend, I'm not too happy with him, but, you know, I can deal with him, too.

[283] Thanks, ladies.

[284] You all have a great thing.

[285] All right.

[286] Nice to meet you.

[287] Thank you so much.

[288] Sam told us she'd had mental health issues and her boyfriend, who was 18, had had problems too.

[289] Before she came to Hope Clinic, she'd gone somewhere else for a free consultation.

[290] It was something called a Crisis Pregnancy Center.

[291] They're run by anti -abortion activists.

[292] And they told her that sometimes people just need a baby to get better themselves to straighten out their lives.

[293] And Sam thought that was crazy.

[294] We'll take a look and see if we've got everything set up in here.

[295] So then, Dr. King shows us the room where the surgical abortions take place.

[296] Theralizing our instruments.

[297] Looks like Danielle's in here, setting up things.

[298] Yeah, checking things, routine things.

[299] Like checking and making their sure there's oxygen in the oxygen tank.

[300] Hey, Pat, can come in?

[301] That's when Nurse Pat walks in.

[302] Pat, you're very good at verbal anesthesia.

[303] Yes, I am.

[304] Can I ask you the types of things you say?

[305] If they're really young, we do songs.

[306] Little bunny foo.

[307] Up the teapot.

[308] Do you hold their hand?

[309] No, I hold their hands.

[310] I hold their bodies.

[311] I tuck them in my arm and have them listen to my heart and then tell them I'm your grandma.

[312] And they're like, you know, hi, my name's tat.

[313] And I'm here for you.

[314] I can hold your hand.

[315] I can hold you.

[316] I can do this.

[317] Or I can just take you like this.

[318] Put your head up.

[319] And then Pat reaches out and wraps Lindsay in her arms for a demo.

[320] Just you're doing great.

[321] You're doing awesome.

[322] I'm so proud of you.

[323] Okay.

[324] And then when I'm done, I go, I just kiss me. I felt really good.

[325] And then we meet another patient, Sabrina.

[326] That's not her real name.

[327] She should be out in the next five minutes or so.

[328] She's just had her abortion, and she's resting in a chair in her hospital gown and surgical cap.

[329] She's eating a little bag of crackers.

[330] Is he helping your son?

[331] I'm hungry.

[332] Her appetite has been huge, so she ate several meals in preparation before the procedure.

[333] I had jackingham box.

[334] I had one little kid, $2 cheeseburger meals with jack in a box.

[335] And then my mama had made some tuna.

[336] I wouldn't have got some of that, too.

[337] I ate all that before I came.

[338] When she found out she was pregnant, she knew immediately what she didn't want.

[339] I don't want no more kids right now.

[340] Do you have kids?

[341] Mm -hmm.

[342] I got one son.

[343] And I loved them there before.

[344] But I don't want more kids.

[345] He just wants the right time, so I feel like this was best.

[346] I feel like it should be okay if that's what you decide to do.

[347] Because when it all boils down, guess who's going to be stuck?

[348] You.

[349] Mm -hmm.

[350] The mother, it's always the mother.

[351] The father will get an option.

[352] So I just, I didn't want to do that this time.

[353] Mm -mm.

[354] So I decided to do this.

[355] It's too much.

[356] Like, when I first had my son, I was not mentally prepared for that.

[357] Like, I literally almost had a mental breakdown.

[358] Like, my mom had to get my son for like a couple weeks for me because it was just too much.

[359] People don't think about that.

[360] And they wonder why there be so many kids on the street or so much stuff, bad stuff happened, because people have all these kids that they never want to take her or raise in the first place.

[361] This is about actually raising a person to be a decent person in this cruel world.

[362] That's hard.

[363] Especially a little boy.

[364] It's just too hard.

[365] So I decided to do this.

[366] That's my choice.

[367] I am starving.

[368] I cannot wait to get up out of her to eat.

[369] What's his name?

[370] Shaman.

[371] He got a smart mouth.

[372] But he's just so smart.

[373] Like, I think I have.

[374] form every day.

[375] But no, I don't think I need no wash your eyes.

[376] Uh -uh, that's enough.

[377] So that's wrong right now.

[378] I can't do this time.

[379] Sabrina's a single mom.

[380] Her son's father was never really in the picture.

[381] She works in a warehouse, shipping goods for online orders.

[382] She told us she wanted to get out of her town, get a better job.

[383] But she knew that having another kid would make that hard.

[384] It's been 46 years since Roe v. Wade made abortion legal in the United States.

[385] I was like you're 12 years old.

[386] And it's incredibly common.

[387] I found out I was pregnant.

[388] One in every four women gets one.

[389] And I was terrified because I didn't want to have a child with this man. We decided that the best thing was not to have a baby right now.

[390] But even if you get one, that doesn't exactly mean you like it.

[391] I went back and forth so much about it, even telling anyone.

[392] Or you will support people who are fighting for it.

[393] No. It's complicated.

[394] I would never let him know I got an abortion.

[395] As we drove around the state, that's what we heard over and over again.

[396] People's views, they're not consistent.

[397] Can we ask...

[398] Welcome back to McDonnell.

[399] I'll be with you in just one moment.

[400] They're contradictory.

[401] Can we answer your question?

[402] Yeah.

[403] We're reporters and we're doing a story about abortion.

[404] Okay.

[405] Do you think people are more accepting of...

[406] or less accepting of it.

[407] I personally think it's murder, but it's your decision.

[408] Do the rest of you today, guys.

[409] Thank you.

[410] Oh, thank you so much.

[411] So I go up there?

[412] Yes, ma 'am.

[413] Okay.

[414] I mean, it is murder.

[415] It's a baby.

[416] It's a heartbeat.

[417] So, I mean, I'll be honest with you.

[418] A long time ago, I had had an abortion, but I was going through a lot of hard, hard things.

[419] Just because a woman gets an abortion doesn't mean she's going to vote for it.

[420] And it doesn't mean her family will either.

[421] Like, should it be made illegal?

[422] Like, do you think it should be?

[423] I feel like it should be.

[424] I mean, it's killing somebody.

[425] I mean, it's killing your baby.

[426] Even though it helped you at a certain point in your life?

[427] Yeah, because I don't like the way I feel now afterwards.

[428] Yeah.

[429] I mean, did it really help anything?

[430] And now I have to build with that for the rest of my life.

[431] But he's like, you know, I'm pro -life.

[432] but I'm really glad that you made the choice that you did and that you had a choice.

[433] I was like, wait, what?

[434] What did you?

[435] I mean, it kind of like hit me like a brick wall because I'm like, wait, what did you say?

[436] And I feel like that's the normal experience is you have no idea.

[437] I just don't think people know until it's themselves.

[438] Then it's deeply personal.

[439] This is why it's so hard politically and why abortion has remained vulnerable.

[440] This is the kind of person that makes me more furious than anyone to say it's okay for me, but it's not okay for you.

[441] I asked Vivian Zwick about the contradictions.

[442] She said it's been that way ever since she started working on abortion rights back in the 60s.

[443] I find that absolutely to be the most awful attitude.

[444] It's just an awful attitude to say it's okay.

[445] for me, but I'm not going to vote for you to have it.

[446] I can't understand it, but that's the way it is.

[447] What do you think is going to happen, Vivian?

[448] I'm afraid to say what I think is going to happen.

[449] I was really, I really thought we had it made.

[450] I think eventually we will lose abortion.

[451] I really do.

[452] Is it surprising to you?

[453] No. It is not surprising to me. I find, well, it would make me feel very, very much like I'd wasted an awful lot of time.

[454] What was I doing?

[455] I thought I was doing good.

[456] A growing number of states are beginning to pass laws that would immediately ban abortion if Roe v. Wade is overturned.

[457] Kentucky could become the first U .S. states without an abortion clinic in our modern era.

[458] The governor is poised to sign one of the most restrictive anti -war.

[459] The Ohio governor signing today what critics condemn is the most restrictive abortion law in the country.

[460] And in Mississippi, the governor signs a bill banning most abortions as soon as the baby's heartbeat is detected.

[461] The Missouri House is passing along a bill that would ban almost all abortions in the state should the U .S. Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade.

[462] There are no exceptions for a woman that becomes pregnant because of rape or incest.

[463] Vivian thought that the future was looking more and more like the past.

[464] And she's kind of right.

[465] States are passing laws that, until now, had never gotten traction.

[466] They were considered legal dead ends.

[467] They would end up in court where they would die.

[468] But with the new Supreme Court, that math has changed.

[469] And maybe one of those cases would mean the death of Roe v. Wade.

[470] And if it's overturned, and abortion is no longer nationally protected, the map looks something like this.

[471] In a third of the country, it's legal.

[472] In a third of the country, it's not.

[473] And the rest is up for grabs.

[474] Missouri would be a state without abortion.

[475] And in some ways, when you drive across Missouri today, that already feels true.

[476] Should we go?

[477] Here's what else you need to know today.

[478] There's obviously been a lot of hard work by a lot of people throughout the Denver metro area.

[479] It did create a significant amount of concern regarding what we believe is a credible threat.

[480] On Wednesday, just days before the 20th anniversary of the Columbine shooting, a massive police hunt for a woman who officials say was on a, quote, pilgrimage to Columbine, shut down hundreds of schools in the Denver airport.

[481] area, affecting half a million students.

[482] The FBI recently just confirmed that they have found Ms. Pius deceased from an...

[483] The search ended when the woman, 18 -year -old Seoul Pais, was found dead from what appeared to be a self -inflicted gunshot wound.

[484] She had allegedly made threats online and had traveled from her home in Miami to Denver, where she then purchased a pump -action shotgun with ammunition.

[485] I've had plenty of staff that have been boots on the ground searching different areas.

[486] Everything that I've heard in briefings does not indicate that she had any assistance or friends in the area.

[487] Just a fascination with the Columbine area and the horrendous crime that went on there 20 years ago.

[488] That's it for the Daily.

[489] I'm Sabrina Tavernisi.

[490] Tomorrow, my colleague Mike Schmidt will be hosting.

[491] If you ever listen to podcasts, to what?

[492] Podcasts?

[493] Podcasts?

[494] Podcasts.

[495] Podcasts?

[496] Do we have it here?

[497] Well, you can hear it on a...

[498] Do you use a computer?

[499] No. That we'll find someone who has a computer and you can listen to it on the computer.

[500] Can you...

[501] Can you help for you?

[502] Yeah, don't even worry about it.

[503] Okay.

[504] Well, we'll make sure you hear it.

[505] My family tells me I'm buried behind the times.

[506] You're modern.

[507] You're ahead of the times, Vivian.

[508] Don't let them tell you that.

[509] We're definitely ahead of the times.