11:I[8479,["349","static/chunks/349-c9bb88602114b6df.js","173","static/chunks/173-8ffc04d433c3339f.js","865","static/chunks/865-f26eeb7d8a4ff1d6.js","444","static/chunks/app/episode/%5Buuid%5D/page-e9df19c6dc9fc3dd.js"],"EpisodeClient"] 12:T47c,

Vice President JD Vance met with the new pope a few days ago. He then sat down with The Times to talk about faith, immigration, the law and the partisan temptation to go too far.

Ross Douthat, an opinion columnist and the host of the new podcast “Interesting Times,” discusses their conversation.

Guest: Ross Douthat, an Opinion columnist and the host of the “Interesting Times” podcast.

Background reading:

Ross’s conversation with JD Vance.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

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13:T47c,

Vice President JD Vance met with the new pope a few days ago. He then sat down with The Times to talk about faith, immigration, the law and the partisan temptation to go too far.

Ross Douthat, an opinion columnist and the host of the new podcast “Interesting Times,” discusses their conversation.

Guest: Ross Douthat, an Opinion columnist and the host of the “Interesting Times” podcast.

Background reading:

Ross

A Conversation With Vice President Vance