Bradley Cooper Returns

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Nick Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[3] Hi there.

[4] Hello, there.

[5] Your friend is here.

[6] My old buddy, my sweet, sweet friend is here.

[7] Bradley Cooper.

[8] I don't need to tell you about Bradley Cooper, but I will anyways because he's an award -winning actor and a filmmaker.

[9] He's nominated right now for 15 to 17 Academy Awards for his film Maestro.

[10] But before that, of course, we have a star is born, The Hangover, American Sniper, Silver Lines Playbook, Limitless.

[11] you know hey cooper what a fucking resume you've put together you know time's just passing and all of a sudden this list here assembles and i'm staring at it and it's what a career he's built that's incredible but we you do you forgot to say hit and run and brother's justice yes yes let us not forget his movie maestro is out now on netflix this is my favorite conversation i've had with him in years that's great it was it was lovely yeah i really really just like i just It was just very impactful, and I really, really enjoyed it.

[12] So please enjoy my friend Bradley Cooper.

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[15] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[16] He's an armchair expert.

[17] I was worried about the traffic, but I'm okay.

[18] Yeah, you did fine.

[19] Yeah.

[20] Tell me about the honest.

[21] What happens there?

[22] What's that like?

[23] Klugman's coming.

[24] Okay, great.

[25] Cluggy, you'll be in tow?

[26] You mean the voice of T -Mobile?

[27] That's right.

[28] And the creative...

[29] The nucleus behind it.

[30] Shut up Peney as well.

[31] Yeah, exactly.

[32] You kind of can't beat his voice.

[33] Do you know about his friend, Brian Klugman?

[34] Best friend since Philadelphia.

[35] And he and Penae are partners with Nate.

[36] Oh, fun.

[37] Yes.

[38] And Klugman's in the movie.

[39] Oh, who is he in the movie?

[40] I know.

[41] Could we just break this down for a second?

[42] Yeah, Rob, he's the expert.

[43] So, Espresso, with what?

[44] water and then they have like a special whipped cream that they put on top who's they maro coffee okay shout out maro coffee that's coffee in the city black ops whatever natak who else do we know from our time together wait who is he in the movie mr amoroso my cello teacher when i was in eighth grade he's awesome in it oh i was just kidding another shout out oh oh oh i thought you were saying clubman was playing letter Bernstein's cello teacher i know that's what that's It's too early for jokes.

[45] Sorry, you're sorry.

[46] I'm sorry, this is the first thing I'm having all day.

[47] This is fantastic.

[48] So it's called something, right?

[49] Cream top.

[50] Also, not a great thing for you to sip just before the photos because it does look like you just blew an elephant a little bit.

[51] Just right here, right here.

[52] That's what these hands are for.

[53] This has happened a few times.

[54] I kind of think you're doing it on purpose, Rob.

[55] One of his rascally moves.

[56] What's going on up there?

[57] The Shepherd.

[58] What's he doing?

[59] What happens before the interview stuff?

[60] And we're all over the place.

[61] Back to...

[62] Look at this footwear that's going on.

[63] Yeah, a lot of boots.

[64] Oh, all three.

[65] Yeah, it's on pretty good.

[66] These are from.

[67] What movie?

[68] What movie?

[69] TV show, A Kitchen Confidential.

[70] These are from 2006.

[71] Wow.

[72] Because I live in New York, but I still have the place here.

[73] But all the clothes are from like...

[74] They're just getting older.

[75] Yeah, so like I wore these Venetan women's pants.

[76] I must have worn all the time.

[77] Remember those red, almost pajama -like pants?

[78] Oh, for sure.

[79] Yeah.

[80] Okay, those were women's.

[81] I got those when I was on a trip with my parents in 1990.

[82] 97.

[83] Oh my God.

[84] And they're still holding up.

[85] Yeah, I wore them yesterday with the failure to launch Army.

[86] Oh my God.

[87] Do you do that too though?

[88] Yes, I was just complaining about it.

[89] I haven't acted in a few years, so I haven't collected any new stuff.

[90] And now it's starting to become really apparent, especially if I have to wear a suit because I'll have had suits made for the game show, but I was one way.

[91] So nothing fits me anymore.

[92] And I'm not going to fix that.

[93] I'm just wearing stuff that doesn't fit now as a rule of thumb.

[94] So everything's way too big.

[95] Or small?

[96] For the last two and a half years, everything was way too small.

[97] I would put a rubber band in the little notch and then put it around the button for the neck of the shirt.

[98] You follow me?

[99] My neck was too thick.

[100] And I'm like, oh, I'll just be able to cover it up with the tie.

[101] But then I'd pop into the bathroom in the middle of an event and realize the tie had gotten a little loose.

[102] And you just see, like, my daughter's braces rubber band.

[103] I mean, it's not braces, but friendship bracelet.

[104] Yeah, yeah.

[105] So, yeah, I don't know what I'm going to be looking like in about six years when I continue to not collect any new clothes.

[106] I believe we're 49.

[107] Yeah, baby.

[108] How's it feel?

[109] I actually feel young.

[110] I feel like younger than I did 15 years ago.

[111] But I know it's coming because people in their 50 say, just wait.

[112] After 50, your body starts to change.

[113] I feel healthy as I ever have.

[114] In fact, I was just thinking of you two weeks ago.

[115] I'm going to see how fast I can get to the very top of Griffith.

[116] Oh, wow.

[117] And I was remembering you doing that in Vancouver Island.

[118] Yes.

[119] And then I was like, I need Cooper.

[120] I have no comp.

[121] I don't know if I'm doing good or bad, right?

[122] The fact that you could even do it.

[123] is the win.

[124] I guess.

[125] Dude, are you kidding?

[126] I haven't done anything like that in years.

[127] Oh, no. I don't run anymore.

[128] You stay thin, though.

[129] I was watching you in Maestro, and I thought you're really...

[130] I got super thin of Maestro.

[131] For the prosthetic, that was the best thing.

[132] Because otherwise, when you would put the stuff on your face, it almost look like a bobblehead.

[133] And then after that, I'm like 181, 182, which is great weight for me. Yeah, probably the healthiest way.

[134] Oh, no question.

[135] Our height.

[136] Just diet then.

[137] Yeah, and work out.

[138] Work out in my bedroom.

[139] Okay.

[140] Like body weight stuff.

[141] You might need more clarifies.

[142] Sprints to the toilet.

[143] How should I show you a photo?

[144] We see him a photo of me working out.

[145] My screen's video.

[146] Video of me working out.

[147] Here, I'll show you my routine.

[148] This was yesterday and nine.

[149] What do you do?

[150] So I have a Peloton bike that I used to use a lot.

[151] I don't really now, but I like the way it looks.

[152] It's very sleek.

[153] And the other thing is this catalyst suit.

[154] Do you know about this?

[155] No, tell me about that.

[156] So this catalyst suit that I was turned on to like four years ago, It's a certain method of working out where it stimulates your muscles through electric.

[157] There's like electrical pulses.

[158] And it's a 20 -minute workout.

[159] I've turned so many of my friends on.

[160] Because do you remember when I was doing sniper?

[161] My tendons were really sore.

[162] I was like, how am I going to be able to build the arms up to match my back?

[163] Yes.

[164] Do you remember that?

[165] Well, you would focus very heavily on deadlifting for that.

[166] Deadlifting my neck.

[167] Remember all the neck shit?

[168] Yeah, yeah.

[169] No, because he had this incredible neck and we always wanted to shoot from the back of his neck.

[170] You know, anyway.

[171] The suit.

[172] You're still actually working out?

[173] Yeah, yeah, you're sweating, yeah, it's hard.

[174] And the great thing is I just focus on my lower back and glutes because, again, as we get older, that's really the only thing that matters.

[175] Yeah, but you already had the glutes.

[176] I had the glutes, but not the lower back.

[177] Okay.

[178] Yeah.

[179] So you came with glutes into this world.

[180] I did come with the glutes into this world, yeah.

[181] Which I've had a weird relationship with sometimes I've hated it, but often I'd loved it because basketball with Dax.

[182] Shirley.

[183] Tennis court.

[184] Tennis court.

[185] Let's be honest, though, where it really shines is the dance floor.

[186] That's true.

[187] I was just talking to a friend of ours about this.

[188] I didn't like my face.

[189] You didn't like yours.

[190] But I had to build a self -esteem.

[191] That's right.

[192] I just honed in on a couple things I had.

[193] That was my first foot forward no matter what.

[194] You have to have known your haunches were so powerful and infectious, especially on a dance floor.

[195] I just loved dancing.

[196] So I was shy, but for some reason, get me on that bar mitzvah or bot mitzvah dance floor.

[197] Back up.

[198] And I felt like I was in a place of comfort.

[199] You were at home.

[200] Yes.

[201] Yeah, I did.

[202] And the response from gals was that no other boys were dancing.

[203] So it was like, oh, finally I have a fucking thing.

[204] At least somebody's dancing.

[205] That's right.

[206] Just the fact that we were out there meant a lot.

[207] I try to tell young boys, like just get out there.

[208] Get dancing.

[209] You don't have to be good.

[210] No. In fact, it's almost better.

[211] Yes, it just says I'm a good time.

[212] That's right.

[213] But do you think it works the same for girls if they're not good?

[214] I still like it.

[215] I think at that age it's just about being out there and moving around.

[216] It's a false flag of confidence because it takes a lot of confidence to get up and potentially humiliate yourself.

[217] So, yeah, even if a girl's dancing, objectively, poorly.

[218] God bless her.

[219] Look, she's confident and she's moving.

[220] That's attractive.

[221] I just think you guys might be a little misunderstood in that you both didn't like your faces, but you had nice ones.

[222] Okay.

[223] And so...

[224] Go on.

[225] Continue.

[226] What specifically was nice about our faces.

[227] And so the dancing, even if you were good or bad, it was just like, oh, that's cute because they're cute.

[228] Thank you, by the way.

[229] You're welcome.

[230] And it could be right.

[231] Whatever the outside, perspective is what was going on and that was one of the many things that we sort of aligned initially as our sense of self -esteem that we were monsters and physically and all these things that we connected to but that maybe the general populace were like what are you talking about but it didn't matter because it wasn't like this thing we told ourselves we had a dossier of factual evidence litigating which would support that in fact and that would refute but yes but in a court of law we felt like we had a very very good case strong case yes yes We didn't even need to make a final closing argument.

[232] Once we bring the gals up that didn't like us, then we get on the stand admitting they didn't.

[233] They're like, let's settle out of court.

[234] We're like, no, we're going to take this all the way.

[235] We feel confident about the verdict on this one.

[236] Oh, could I just say real quick?

[237] Yeah, yeah.

[238] They had this incredible weekend in Santa Barbara.

[239] They did this film festival, and they did a retrospective, and they made this montage of all the stuff.

[240] And then they showed a thing from hit and run, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[241] You and I screaming at each other?

[242] It was like a moment right before that.

[243] You driving tough?

[244] It was so quick.

[245] but it was like me looking at you.

[246] I think it was right before the fight.

[247] Wasn't there a moment where we, like, just looked at each other?

[248] Yeah, because we love each other and, yeah, because it doesn't look like hate.

[249] It didn't look like hate.

[250] Oh, and then when we shot the T -Mobile commercial, the DP did hit and run.

[251] Oh, yes, yes, yes, of course.

[252] Brad's Stonecipher.

[253] There's been a lot of hit -and -run memories.

[254] Oh, that makes me so happy.

[255] And, you know, because that was the limitless wig.

[256] Yes, yes, yes.

[257] Oh, and I was watching.

[258] We haven't talked in a little bit, but I've been completely turned on by reality television, and I'm absolutely obsessed.

[259] What specifically?

[260] Well, Love on the Spectrum is the greatest show I've ever seen.

[261] Okay, yeah.

[262] Really love The Golden Bachelor.

[263] That was my introduction into that world.

[264] Oh, wow.

[265] I was just taking in the last season of The Bachelorette.

[266] I haven't finished it, so don't tell me anything.

[267] But they were drifting, and I was thinking about you the other day.

[268] They went on a drifting day?

[269] Oh, maybe I should watch the batch.

[270] They had so many years to try to wrangle everyone.

[271] I can't believe all the seasons.

[272] I can't believe.

[273] It's true.

[274] It's going to be like they're going to have a bass angling episode or something.

[275] It's true.

[276] They've done so many.

[277] What else can we do?

[278] Spelunking.

[279] Was blind, my lord.

[280] Oh.

[281] Have you watched Love on the Spectrum?

[282] Yes, the first season I saw several.

[283] We watched some during the pandemic.

[284] I'm new to it all, but whoa.

[285] It's beautiful.

[286] Do you have a theory on why this is suddenly appealing to you?

[287] Sincerely.

[288] It's not a theory.

[289] It's just a logistical thing.

[290] It entered your life.

[291] It's entered my life.

[292] Okay, and you can't turn away.

[293] So I entered my life and I was like, oh, this is the most incredible reflection of human behavior and social dynamics.

[294] But love on the spectrum, you're watching these people.

[295] people just move forward with their heart and mind totally open and they're saying the very thing that we're feeling and never have the courage to say.

[296] It's like one date is the equivalent of 40 of our dates.

[297] Yes.

[298] You know, it's like, boom, let's get right down to it.

[299] How are you feeling?

[300] How's this going?

[301] I think it's going well.

[302] I'm feeling this way.

[303] I'm feeling this way.

[304] I don't like this.

[305] It's amazing.

[306] It's amazing.

[307] It's like, no, I don't really like this.

[308] The first few I saw.

[309] I'm like, yes, dude.

[310] It's quite transparent to me why that appeals to you.

[311] Okay.

[312] That specifically.

[313] Because you are always on high alert for the truth.

[314] I know where mine comes from.

[315] I don't even know that I know exactly where yours comes from.

[316] I think it comes from a similar place.

[317] Okay.

[318] Maybe charismatic deceptive adults.

[319] I think it's about how to survive and understand what's real as a child.

[320] What's happening because there's conflicting signs that portray different realities.

[321] How do I decipher what's real?

[322] So that I can survive.

[323] So I'm going to predict what's next.

[324] Yeah.

[325] So these folks, you're like, oh, this is it.

[326] They're going to tell me, I plan on double crossing you in 15 minutes.

[327] Yeah, it's nuts.

[328] I find it very moving.

[329] I struggle with it.

[330] immensely.

[331] Reality television.

[332] No, no, I love it.

[333] I don't have a show currently, but I've had long periods.

[334] I love dating shows.

[335] Yeah.

[336] Everyone's fucking.

[337] I love that.

[338] Oh, yeah.

[339] I haven't seen those yet.

[340] Oh, you should watch, are you the one?

[341] Oh, really?

[342] Okay.

[343] Can I land the premise from two seconds?

[344] Yeah, yeah.

[345] So it's 20 people, 10 hot girls, 10 hot boys.

[346] They're on some romantic location.

[347] And they're just free to mix and see who they connect with.

[348] They've been told that an algorithm knows who their perfect matches.

[349] That's the buy -in that this computer knows who they're perfect matches.

[350] So then at the end of every episode, they have to pair off and declare this is my true love.

[351] Basically, only two of them are right.

[352] But they've fallen in love, right?

[353] They've been fucking for a week.

[354] Only two of them are right, meaning to the algorithm.

[355] Yes.

[356] Do we, as the audience, know already?

[357] We don't know.

[358] And so they're trying now to figure out which two had it correct and which eight other couples need to docee do and switch partners.

[359] Whoa.

[360] But people are already in love.

[361] There's jealousy.

[362] I mean, it's like the most maniacal.

[363] Are they all living in the?

[364] Yes, and they're drinking heavily.

[365] Yeah, there's a lot of drinking in all these things.

[366] You've got to get everyone hammered.

[367] Are you the wine?

[368] Do you watch Love is Blind?

[369] No. Because all the cups, you can't see through them, so you don't know how much they're actually drinking.

[370] Is Love is blind the one with the show a penis part?

[371] No. Love is where they meet in pods.

[372] I think it came out of COVID initially.

[373] I did see that.

[374] I did see that.

[375] Okay.

[376] And then they're kind of falling in love with what you would hope they'd fall in love with.

[377] Personality.

[378] Exactly.

[379] And then they now get to see each other.

[380] Yes.

[381] And they just did Love is Blind Sweden, which was incredible.

[382] Oh, was there a big cultural shift?

[383] Very much so.

[384] To the degree where there was no more engine in the show.

[385] Like, they don't care what each other looks like.

[386] Just different mannerisms, different way of communicating.

[387] But they dubbed it, so I didn't like it because the voice is everything.

[388] You know, at the end of it, they do the live coming back show and find out what happened.

[389] And that they hadn't, I guess, had time to dub.

[390] And then all of a sudden you're hearing their voices.

[391] It was fantastic.

[392] Well, they had small talk in pleasantries, which I appreciate about them.

[393] And they're all real handsome over there in Sweden.

[394] Oh, my God, yes.

[395] I just met our boss from Spotify and just a run -of -the -mill guy in Sweden.

[396] But here, you know, he's six -two broad shoulders.

[397] He's gorgeous.

[398] And I'm like, yeah, this guy's just a fucking...

[399] By the way, you look amazing, dude.

[400] Thank you.

[401] Your eyes are crystal clear.

[402] But really, we haven't seen each other in person.

[403] You look fucking great.

[404] Oh, wow.

[405] Thank you so much.

[406] Yeah, right, doesn't he?

[407] Yeah, I mean, I see him every day, but yeah.

[408] You look so calm and healthy and is life good?

[409] Yeah, life's really good.

[410] Yeah, I've carved out a really crazy, impossibly good thing here.

[411] Yeah, but I mean, just everything.

[412] Yeah, but this kind of then informs how much free time do I have to exercise?

[413] How much free time do I have to drop my kids off at school?

[414] It goes backwards from there.

[415] Of course.

[416] Still playing the drums?

[417] Yeah, getting worse.

[418] That's the fucking bummer But still have it by the gym?

[419] It's right underneath I work out and then I play a little bit And then I'm like, God, it's weird I'm getting worse Tell me your ritual.

[420] The exercise?

[421] No, just like get up in the morning.

[422] Oh, great, I'd love to.

[423] So, so self -indulgent.

[424] I talk about it all the time.

[425] Oh, you do?

[426] So is this redundant?

[427] No, he asked.

[428] Yeah, yeah, so you've given me the blessing.

[429] I wake up two hours before the kids are up.

[430] Well, two hours before I got to drive to school.

[431] So five?

[432] No, six.

[433] I got to leave the house at eight.

[434] How far away is school?

[435] Two miles.

[436] I can do it in about nine minutes if I'm punching.

[437] And what do we drive in these days?

[438] We drive mom's electric bolt there because I can do U -turns really good in front of the school and get the spot.

[439] When mom's using your car, I'm actually resentful.

[440] I wake up, I meditate for 20 minutes.

[441] Then my reward for that is I get coffee and nicotine.

[442] And then I start journaling.

[443] I journal one page.

[444] Still journaling, my God.

[445] Yeah, I won't quit.

[446] Well, I quit for a minute.

[447] I remember.

[448] It turns out they were very linked.

[449] And then I minimally have to write a page of prose.

[450] So I'm writing a memoir by hand.

[451] And then it's poopy time.

[452] Because we've got nicotine and coffee in us.

[453] Yes, and we're hammering that.

[454] Yeah.

[455] And then we get on the commode, and the girls start filing in.

[456] They start chatting with me, and it's amazing.

[457] They don't care.

[458] Is this a to -co commode?

[459] Brondel, but same thing.

[460] So there's a heat.

[461] Yeah, yeah.

[462] I do my posting for this show at that moment.

[463] Like, if it's a Monday, I put up the guests.

[464] And then the girls start coming in out.

[465] And I wonder, is this the same with Leah, where they can sit and talk to me, like a foot away from me. And it's terrible in there.

[466] My bedroom is the bathtub and the toilet, the bed are all in the same room.

[467] So it's 24 -7, dude You can even walk out of the bathroom There's no doors, dude And do you find she doesn't care?

[468] There's no door in my bedroom There's no door to the bathroom No, the stairs go up and it's all in one floor Wow Let it rip Just move from zone to zone God I would love that actually Because again I'm moving through these little steps But do you find that your daughter doesn't care at all that?

[469] Oh yeah, no no We talk where I'm on the toilet She's in the bathtub.

[470] That's sort of the go -to.

[471] I have a great biological question surrounding this.

[472] Is it your genes that makes you not care?

[473] Or is it just the nurture of it all?

[474] It's insane that they don't care.

[475] They must not be able to smell it.

[476] There must be something pheromonal.

[477] Here's what's interesting.

[478] I didn't grow up that way.

[479] Right.

[480] At all.

[481] No. I don't think I ever saw my father on the toilet until he got sick.

[482] Right.

[483] Like ever in my life.

[484] We can have 100 conversations.

[485] I need six hours.

[486] And we've got to talk about nudity with a daughter.

[487] So it's like, we're the Swedish style or German.

[488] Like, weren't I get all the time.

[489] Me too.

[490] And by the way, I was like that.

[491] Not with my mom, but my dad.

[492] My dad was always nude.

[493] And always took showers with him.

[494] There was no, no evacuations, but showering was fine.

[495] Okay.

[496] And you're quite comfortable, nude.

[497] Totally.

[498] Okay.

[499] Then I take the kids of school.

[500] Then I work out.

[501] Then I research, or research then workout.

[502] One of the two.

[503] Probably research first, and then I try to squeeze a workout and then we come up here.

[504] So two workouts.

[505] No, no. I said the order wrong.

[506] I would always research first because I can't drop that.

[507] And then I'll work out.

[508] And then we generally record at 11 for that.

[509] the first time.

[510] And meditation happens.

[511] We're in this area.

[512] Oh, in my bed.

[513] So you sort of sit up?

[514] Yes.

[515] If Christmas sleep with the girls, I can do that.

[516] If she's not, I wake up, I make my coffee.

[517] I bring it to the other middle bedroom and then I meditate in there on the bed.

[518] Sitting up.

[519] Yes.

[520] And I've added cross -legged to it all.

[521] Oh, you have.

[522] Me too.

[523] When did this start?

[524] I'm like this.

[525] Yeah, I couldn't do that.

[526] By the way, I know this is crazy.

[527] You do this is crazy.

[528] You do this is crazy.

[529] I do.

[530] Because I feel that there's a difference.

[531] It feels like there's not one circuitous.

[532] I got to.

[533] Yeah.

[534] It's supposed.

[535] It's supposed to be connected at all areas.

[536] Right.

[537] Like, you're breaking up.

[538] Like, Skadoosh.

[539] You know, that's what made me think of it.

[540] There's something circular about it when you do that.

[541] A loop of energy.

[542] That's what it feels like.

[543] I got to add that.

[544] I sit like this.

[545] Because I feel like it's going in a loop around my arms.

[546] Guys, I'm crossing my hands and setting them in my lap.

[547] You know, I'm doing this sort of like...

[548] Touching your ring fingers with your thumb.

[549] Yeah.

[550] It's the original position that the Indians made that.

[551] The thing is never to rest your head against anything, obviously.

[552] When did you start.

[553] crossing your legs because anatomically, I couldn't cross my legs three years ago.

[554] I started like this.

[555] This is how I used to meditate.

[556] You look like a schoolboy at his gas right now for the listener.

[557] Then I stopped meditating for a couple years, and I think when I started back up, that's how it started.

[558] And I always go to the roof in the West Village where I live.

[559] That's where I sort of try to go.

[560] Even in the winter.

[561] Even in the winter.

[562] Better in the winter?

[563] Well, it's interesting because I bundle up.

[564] And then there's no chairs there because it's just a 450 square foot little area and I have a little plot of grass.

[565] And you haven't seen it.

[566] Yeah, I have.

[567] The very, very top.

[568] I was in the backyard.

[569] I was in the bathroom slash toilet slash.

[570] Just a tiny little deck.

[571] Okay, lovely.

[572] Do you have mats you sit on though?

[573] No, it's just wood.

[574] So I just sit on wood.

[575] That's so much tougher.

[576] So that's why I had to evolve.

[577] Yes.

[578] Because there was no chair.

[579] I'm so jealous right now.

[580] Because I'm leaning against, not my head, but my low back has got some pillows behind it.

[581] Yeah, my lower back.

[582] There's grass, wood, and then I have wood on the wall.

[583] Okay, so you're up against the wall.

[584] Fuck, because I was starting to think you were full David Carradine style.

[585] No, no, no. That would be really hard, dude.

[586] I know.

[587] This happens a lot.

[588] I'll be mid -meditation and I'm down here.

[589] You slowly start drooping into the ground.

[590] Yes, I tell myself, you cannot think about this and also lift your head backwards.

[591] That's right.

[592] That's what I was, I'm like, oh, where am I?

[593] Oh, okay.

[594] How did my head get down to my chest?

[595] Okay, is that first thing?

[596] You don't have any caffeine before then, do you?

[597] No, so what I do is similar, it's like all predicated on when do I have to get Leah up?

[598] So, depending if my mom is visiting from Philly, Leah loves sleeping with her all the way downstairs.

[599] And we have three dogs.

[600] So first, it's the dogs.

[601] Oh, my God.

[602] The dogs are at 4 .50 to 5 a .m., walk down the stairs, so it's six flights down.

[603] Oh, my God.

[604] Five and a half.

[605] Yeah.

[606] No wonder you're not hiking.

[607] You don't need so.

[608] Take them out to the bathroom, feed them, go back up to bed, try to catch another hour if I can.

[609] I always push the limits.

[610] God bless our school.

[611] Leah's always like, tiny late.

[612] Sure, sure, sure.

[613] And we live a block away.

[614] You will the closer you are, the harder it is.

[615] The morning ritual is probably my favorite part of the day.

[616] And it gives you so much self -esteem, right?

[617] Well, I'll tell you why.

[618] Because there's a game -changing element to it.

[619] Okay.

[620] Hit my knees right away.

[621] Same prayer for the last 20.

[622] Third step and 10 -step.

[623] Serenity, our father, and then a list of people.

[624] That grows.

[625] Really quick.

[626] All this is our isms, right?

[627] So it's like, we got to meditate.

[628] No, we got to sit more properly.

[629] No, we got to do this.

[630] And then the list is growing.

[631] Yeah, that prayer must take, like, It's madness.

[632] 45 minutes.

[633] The last year of your life will be making that prayer.

[634] And you'll have to add your name right as you die.

[635] Yeah.

[636] That's true.

[637] And me. And people have died that were in that prayer.

[638] Sure.

[639] And then does it hit you emotionally or no?

[640] Sometimes no, sometimes yes.

[641] I'm always aware of it.

[642] Two of them have died.

[643] Is Charlotte's name in there?

[644] No. I don't pray for the dogs.

[645] That's interesting.

[646] Well, Charlotte.

[647] I don't think you should pray for dogs, but maybe Charlotte.

[648] Yeah.

[649] Well, Charlotte was like a human.

[650] Yes.

[651] Your girlfriend, right?

[652] That's really.

[653] Let's call it one.

[654] I would be like, Dax, look at her.

[655] No, Dax, look at her.

[656] That's a beautiful woman.

[657] I sometimes felt like I was interrupting things.

[658] Speaking of, if I was in a relationship with someone who had a prayer like that, I would be obsessed with finding out if I was in that list.

[659] Oh, sure.

[660] It would drive me nuts.

[661] It's like in the 20 years I've been doing it, I think maybe I've missed like five days.

[662] Wow, that's great.

[663] Do you have a bit of a superstition like I do about the journal and sobriety?

[664] That's the cornerstone of it.

[665] But I do feel like there's no better way to wake up and start thinking about other people.

[666] Yeah, because the rest of the hang of me thinking about myself.

[667] Exactly.

[668] Everything is about, yeah, it's like, let's start it off.

[669] Let's at least get a shot.

[670] Before we can't even find today's obsession, let's make room for some other humans on planet Earth.

[671] But do you worry it will turn into a pathology?

[672] Because I used to do a prayer at night.

[673] It became bad.

[674] Because if I didn't do it or I was forgetting something, it would become a problem.

[675] So I'd just drop the whole thing.

[676] There's something about the physical action of getting on your knees and putting your head down on your bed.

[677] That physical action alone feels so deferential in a beautiful way.

[678] Again, it might be your only moment of humility.

[679] You know, it really is like to start out like that.

[680] It's so part of like breathing now.

[681] I don't really even think about it.

[682] That dogs back to bed.

[683] And then I put a cold plunge in the basement of where I live.

[684] Dude, I thought you were about to say your bedroom.

[685] And I was going to fucking labs out.

[686] This is becoming a Korean spa in there with like a bed in the corner.

[687] There's like no room to move.

[688] So I jump in the cold plunge every single morning for three minutes.

[689] And every day I don't want to do it.

[690] Every day, I'm in bed, I'm like, I don't need to do it.

[691] And I force myself to walk downstairs.

[692] And it's cold outside.

[693] You know, it's cold in the house.

[694] And I'm like, how am I going to do this?

[695] And then I do it.

[696] Set the little timer on the phone.

[697] Three minutes.

[698] I'm so happy when the alarm.

[699] And then I feel so fulfilled.

[700] I could literally go to bed and that's the end of the day.

[701] That's the level of fulfillment.

[702] I do too, but I'm only about three days a week.

[703] I have so many goddamn routines in the morning that is like I have Ellen.

[704] Those are so similar.

[705] It's crazy It's shocking we can be friends It is really crazy Our birthdays are a month apart Oh our sobriety birthdays Sorry, yes I always mix that up Yeah, yeah, our birthdays Our birthdays are three days apart Yeah Both born death, just remind everyone What are the ways in that We don't think we're ugly I know, I can't We're trying to get all the approval In the world If everyone could line up neatly And just walk up to us and say You're good and then turn to the left But then don't forget You gotta come back and say it again It's because I probably won't believe it 30 seconds, if you left, it'll feel obligatory.

[706] You're just a rotating line.

[707] In fact, if you could write it out, it'd be easier for me now.

[708] You have that.

[709] You're an approval junkie.

[710] Honestly, I think I've grown a lot in the last three years.

[711] That's great.

[712] Was there an impetus for that?

[713] Yeah, getting older and realizing there are certain parts of me that have really needed serious work about intimacy with people, women specifically, like being in a real healthy relationship.

[714] And also because I'm a father and I'm like, I just want to, the least amount of damage that I could do to my daughter, please let me work on myself.

[715] And it's all just getting older and people dying and mortality.

[716] Times accelerating.

[717] That's the currency.

[718] That's it.

[719] Yeah.

[720] Nothing but time.

[721] And I think being at a place where I felt like I was willing to go to those places.

[722] And a dear friend turned me on to this incredible therapist that, like, changed my life.

[723] And really realizing the problem was I had no self -esteem.

[724] I think that when I came on before we talked about this, which was years ago now, I think it was not recent.

[725] It wasn't.

[726] It was at least two years ago.

[727] You would have been promoting.

[728] I don't think it was.

[729] The Guillermo movie.

[730] It was.

[731] Oh, so it wasn't that long ago.

[732] When was that?

[733] November 2020.

[734] I thought it was.

[735] It was Thanksgiving.

[736] Okay.

[737] I thought it was more than that.

[738] Okay.

[739] Yeah.

[740] We're okay.

[741] A lot of that way.

[742] Everything's okay.

[743] It does feel like a long time ago.

[744] I was maybe like a year into it at that point.

[745] Self -esteem and it all stemmed from, I don't know if you feel this, but creating a narrative about my upbringing that wasn't really my upbringing.

[746] So I was.

[747] I was starting it all on a false premise.

[748] Interesting.

[749] I'm from Philly.

[750] I thought I was like a beautiful kid and they thought I was a girl and a chip on my shoulder and loving parents.

[751] That's actually not exactly the situation.

[752] Yeah.

[753] So if you're starting it out and also Dax and I connected earlier on about our childhoods to a huge degree and our relationships to our fathers and all this stuff.

[754] Our mothers.

[755] Of course.

[756] We're like our mother's husbands.

[757] Yes.

[758] And we are the golden child that was going to be minimally president.

[759] But I guess that was part of my false narrative to a degree, too.

[760] Was that all it was or was there more?

[761] I'm writing this memoir.

[762] It doesn't need to be published.

[763] I'm writing it so I can get that version that I'm so afraid to lose out of my head.

[764] It'll be there.

[765] If I ever want to revisit it, it'll exist.

[766] That's my action of letting it go.

[767] Wow.

[768] There's the story I've been telling my whole life.

[769] And now we're going to just set that over there.

[770] And maybe my dad was a beautiful guy and maybe he was a loving human.

[771] Well, and also like physically nurturing, a hugger and a kisser.

[772] Who got that in the 80s?

[773] All this new information's coming in that's like, nah, and my mom, I love her to death.

[774] She's also not the angel.

[775] She was in my story.

[776] That's right.

[777] Nor should she be.

[778] And that's my fault.

[779] It's not fair to her.

[780] It's not his responsibility.

[781] Yeah, I have no resentment over it.

[782] It's just like, wow, I had a really clean story.

[783] I used to not even knowing it because that's how the behavior, I just found myself adrift.

[784] And starting with the real foundation.

[785] Which again, Let's be honest, it's just another one.

[786] Yes.

[787] I might reject the notion that there's a real one.

[788] It's just, there's all this data.

[789] It's just infinite data of your childhood.

[790] Well, it's all a story we're telling ourselves.

[791] Exactly.

[792] That's for sure.

[793] And what one serves you?

[794] In a feeling state, at least, I can tell when I'm more present when I'm not, as a human being in my life.

[795] When I started to do this work of re -evaluating the foundation of my life and trying to look at it with a more critical eye on honesty and reflecting on true memory, I found that the benefit is I'm much more present in my life.

[796] I don't need the things I thought I needed to fill up whatever hole I had.

[797] And all of a sudden, I'm willing to be more expressive, creative, present, giving, boundaryed.

[798] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[799] So to me, yes, it's another story, but it felt like, boy, it's way closer to something honest, because the benefits are practical.

[800] Does that make sense?

[801] It totally makes sense.

[802] For me, I guess the thing I try to be critical of is the story is immaterial.

[803] Is the story serving to either excuse my character defects, justify me getting the things I want, or somehow setting up a situation where you'll be even more impressed by me because you know the story.

[804] So if the story has these kind of like self -serving gross motives, which most of my story does, I'm trying to self -aggrandize myself and it seem like a victim and a victor at the same time.

[805] When I recognize that that's actually the of the story.

[806] I think that's more what I'm currently honed in on.

[807] I could also tell that I had the luckiest childhood that anyone's ever had.

[808] There's enough data points for me to point to these relatively speaking.

[809] We're already in the stratosphere on that benchmark.

[810] But what's the goal?

[811] Why are we doing this?

[812] And the goal for me was I want to be able to be more of service to people in my life and then me also.

[813] And I wanted to stop living in my head so much really so that I could be present.

[814] And I wanted to love myself, like in a real way.

[815] And then through, Through that, all of a sudden, boundaries just came up that I could never create in relationships.

[816] What do those look like?

[817] My relationship with my mother completely changed.

[818] Oh, boundaryless, yeah.

[819] Like completely, my relationship to friendships.

[820] Your bedroom is your bed, your shitter, your mother.

[821] Exactly.

[822] Three dogs.

[823] Does she respect the balance?

[824] Like, does she like that they're up?

[825] Here's the thing that occurs.

[826] And I don't know if you have felt this with your mother, but it all just effortlessly falls into place because the bottom line is I'm finally in a Right, right.

[827] Do I fall back into adolescent and childlike feelings and behaviors?

[828] Absolutely.

[829] But my baseline is an adult.

[830] Whereas before, my baseline was adolescence.

[831] When I was in a good space, I could live in the adult world for a little bit, but that wasn't my norm.

[832] Well, and Bradley, that's why work is so appealing to us, is that you have all the evidence of adulthood through work.

[833] Because grownups work.

[834] Yeah.

[835] And grownups execute.

[836] And talk about there's boundaries.

[837] You're walking into a systematic, very clear...

[838] There's a start time and hierarchy and everything.

[839] I definitely have escaped in work before.

[840] Yeah, because it feels like a very adult thing.

[841] Yeah.

[842] Well, and being a parent is a very adult thing, too.

[843] That can be misleading.

[844] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[845] We've all been there.

[846] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches.

[847] sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[848] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[849] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[850] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[851] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[852] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[853] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[854] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[855] What's up guys?

[856] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[857] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[858] And I don't mean just friends.

[859] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[860] The list goes on.

[861] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[862] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[863] I wanted to ask you this when you were talking about being a father.

[864] I wonder if you've had this realization or thought, which is it's not a realization.

[865] They would imply it's implicitly true.

[866] Have you had this thought?

[867] Girls grow up and marry their dads and boys grow up and marry their moms.

[868] So my daughters are going to go try to find me. Holy fuck, I better be like the most spectacular version of myself.

[869] I want them going out and shopping for the one that's not deceptive or duplicitous or lying.

[870] I think about that a lot in terms of how does my relationship with my daughter impact her growth and the journey she's going to be on and specifically romantically in life.

[871] Wherever intimacy finds her.

[872] I've clocked that she's going to be seven.

[873] in March, you know my relationship with my dad, spent a lot of time with them.

[874] I think I've already logged more hours with my daughter than I did with my dad his entire life.

[875] Yeah, same.

[876] So that alone is bonkers.

[877] Were they divorced?

[878] No. It wasn't like I was estranged with my dad.

[879] Yeah, yeah.

[880] But the sheer just amount of time that my daughter and I have hung out is bonkers.

[881] I just can feel the safety that she feels.

[882] It's so tangible.

[883] It's palpable.

[884] That is so fulfilling.

[885] And again, this foundation that you and I created, manifested in order to justify the needs that we had growing up was all based on living in an environment where we had to survive to understand what was real, right?

[886] I was playing a game my whole childhood, a survival game.

[887] Why?

[888] Because things were not as what they seemed.

[889] Growing up with alcoholism in a family is a very specific way to grow up.

[890] What you think is real, you find it isn't real, and it's earth -shattering.

[891] It's like finding out that we're living in some sort of metaverse.

[892] You know, it's like that kind of macro.

[893] You're not human.

[894] You're not breathing right now.

[895] So as a kid, you're like, wait, that's not my dad?

[896] Who's my dad?

[897] What the heck's happening?

[898] All you do is dissect behavior like a scientist to try to understand what's real.

[899] So to be able to have a child not grow up that way?

[900] Not monitoring your every movement to try to predict what's next.

[901] Wow.

[902] I wanted to have as much as she can a foundation that's like 25 feet thick cement that she can walk on this earth with.

[903] That's the goal.

[904] Of course.

[905] And do you find yourself having conversations with her, lying in bed or whatever?

[906] And then you leave and you go like, oh, yeah, I didn't ever have a conversation like that.

[907] All the time.

[908] Every conversation.

[909] Her ability to articulate her feelings at six years old.

[910] My daughters can do a four -step in like 30 seconds.

[911] By the way, no question.

[912] Her mother and I are bawled over at this human being that we're raising that is able to articulate.

[913] And by the way, in her voice, like I don't even think I even found what might say.

[914] speaking voice was really like until like a couple years ago right you know i'm like i think i'm lowering it a little it's okay i have a sort of higher it's all right just be me sure it's fine someone will love me or more importantly i will yes yes our nine -year -old will have an enormous i mean she swears which i love i'll hear like you're not the fucking queen of this place to her sister's she can let a fuck rip and it's great and she doesn't do it often but anyways she can go for it And then, like, 15 minutes later, she'll come and be like, I got really scared, you weren't going to include me in that thing.

[915] So I tried to hurt you back, but I never feel like when I tried to hurt you.

[916] It is crazy.

[917] Oh, my God, I was like 38 had been in AA for fucking nine years before I figured out how to get halfway there.

[918] It's unbelievable.

[919] Oh, it's so awesome.

[920] And by the way, thank goodness they're armed with that because the world now is so much more complicated than it was when we were growing up.

[921] And the access to information, everyone's opinion.

[922] Yeah, we just didn't hear it.

[923] We were making up terrible stories about everyone's opinion, but they actually hear it.

[924] I remember being, like, 12 years old and hear the term corruption.

[925] I remember, like, what's corrupt?

[926] I didn't even know what, like, corruption was.

[927] Like, what is that mean?

[928] Asking my dad that.

[929] I remember driving down Broad Street, it was on, like, the news or something.

[930] Dad, what is that?

[931] I feel like our children are exposed to the realities of human behavior and how septic it can be, and just globally what's going on.

[932] We just have so much information.

[933] It's hard for me to even be able to compute it and be able to keep moving on as a person throughout the day to grow up with that, that that's the norm.

[934] I'm so glad that our children have that articulation about their feelings so that they can live in some sort of calm nature.

[935] Yeah, equilibrium.

[936] Yeah, you got to wonder, like, chicken or the egg, maybe it's already just completely required.

[937] Like, again, we didn't change and evolve until we were forced to.

[938] And it's almost like, they have to already have found that.

[939] No question.

[940] Or would be miserable.

[941] This is all they know.

[942] But, boy, it wasn't like that.

[943] Isn't it?

[944] I mean, it is.

[945] People get sick of me. I sound like a proselytizer.

[946] I'm always...

[947] Being a parent?

[948] Yes.

[949] Honestly, I'm not sure I'd be alive if I wasn't a dad.

[950] I don't know.

[951] What would have happened?

[952] I think you'd be alive.

[953] I don't know.

[954] I don't know.

[955] I don't know, man. No. I'm not sure.

[956] I think I'd be alive, but I also think...

[957] Do you?

[958] Yeah.

[959] I don't think I could have ever achieved real self -esteem without them.

[960] That's really what it is.

[961] And don't you think at 49 with no self -esteem, that's pretty...

[962] It was scary.

[963] With your makeup?

[964] Was it going to make it at the 80?

[965] No. All the things I chased to get that feeling that was not going to be obtained through any other way than this.

[966] For me. Other people get there for sure.

[967] I see it all the time.

[968] There's tons of childless people.

[969] Of course.

[970] I'm just talking about my experience.

[971] I just needed somebody to say like, we're going to drop this massive anchor.

[972] And I'm like, why, we're speeding.

[973] I just got an upgrade on the boat and I know where the wind's coming in.

[974] They're like, no, no, no, no. There's a tsunami coming and you need an anchor and we're going to drop it.

[975] Because this is going to dictate everything you're going to do from now on.

[976] Your DNA is going to tell you that there's something more important than you.

[977] I remember the first time I realized, because I was like, I would die in a second from my kid.

[978] I'm always like, if I'm being honest, I don't know.

[979] Like the first, like, eight months, I'm like, I don't even know if I really love the kid.

[980] We don't know her yet.

[981] It's dope.

[982] It's cool.

[983] I'm watching this thing morph.

[984] And then all of a sudden.

[985] I love that honesty, by the way.

[986] That's my experience.

[987] That's a lot of people's, I think, and they're afraid to say that.

[988] I mean, my experience was totally that.

[989] Fascinated by it.

[990] Love taking care of it.

[991] Would I die if someone came in with a gun?

[992] It's only a couple of months.

[993] I don't know.

[994] She just arrived.

[995] She didn't even have any drinks.

[996] I'm not committed yet.

[997] I don't know if she could be an asshole.

[998] A psychopath.

[999] I could be doing you a favor.

[1000] Who knows?

[1001] And then all of a sudden it's like, no question.

[1002] That knowledge alone.

[1003] For me, the thing is I spent 38 years evaluating had I gotten enough love.

[1004] Who didn't?

[1005] give me enough love who should have given me more love who should have been more of service to me that was my only analysis i was never asking like well how many people have you loved how many people have you committed your resources to how much have you given and i think having them forced me to flip the equation around which is like my goal now is to give as much as i could and of course ironically and against what i would have guessed i feel the most loved by giving it i don't feel that love by receiving it whether i'm broken or that's human i don't know but it's like you can give me a lot of love and it does work for a minute but ultimately it doesn't but the giving it's the self -esteem thing it's like no no that's actually foundational and permanent you can't take away the 11 years i've given to lincoln i can feel your love for me go away quite easily that's right it's like the first permanence also how about looking in a woman's eyes and going i love you forever for real and I'm never going anywhere for real no matter how you act what you are I had not had that sensation before them yeah the word unconditional it actually means something yes yes and I don't say that I don't love Kristen and won't be there for her but it's a totally different thing could do enough stuff that I would be out that's also a reality there are conditions to my love and marriage but tell me this even what you've already been through and I'm just speaking hypothetically you probably would have been out, the old guy.

[1006] Sure, if you lined them up at the beginning, so here's what's coming your way.

[1007] Right.

[1008] I would have been like, oh, keep shopping.

[1009] No, there's a sense of ease.

[1010] I know exactly what you're talking about.

[1011] It's like I'm a different person because it was always predicated on the behavior that could be happening right now.

[1012] Like, I could be in and out, let's see what you got.

[1013] I'll be out in two seconds.

[1014] In fact, you're always looking for it.

[1015] Right.

[1016] What a horrible place for the other person to be in.

[1017] I know.

[1018] What a horrendous place.

[1019] Again, to bring it back to the Bachelor.

[1020] Yeah, let's go.

[1021] can see people that are living that way.

[1022] In fact, I was watching an episode last night.

[1023] And I was, I was commenting on, like, I could see that that person is talking to the other person in a way of, like, what are you going to do?

[1024] Because I'm out in two seconds.

[1025] I'd like to be here, but I'm also so scared.

[1026] But I'm not even showing you that I'm scared.

[1027] I'm showing you that are you the person that you're...

[1028] Are you good enough for me?

[1029] Are you good enough?

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] And no one's good enough for you because you're not good enough for you.

[1032] I mean, I would never be so bold to say what that person's feeling, but I related to it in the way that I have been, you know, without even knowing it.

[1033] But now I look back and think, what a horrible thing to put people through.

[1034] Yeah.

[1035] And we've dealt with this in our friendship.

[1036] You share with me that you felt like you had to walk on eggshells with me in periods of our friendship.

[1037] And I think that's what that was about to a degree.

[1038] But I didn't even realize it.

[1039] Yeah, I've had the feeling like he's trying to figure out how I'm screwing him over and it's very stressful.

[1040] Exactly.

[1041] Like I don't know how to say I don't have any ill intentions for you.

[1042] It breaks my heart that I put you through that.

[1043] Well, I've put you.

[1044] This is how they work.

[1045] No, it's true.

[1046] But back to the women, I guess this is where, too, the narrative, this is where it served me is, I do have conditions romantically.

[1047] I actually kind of stand by that.

[1048] You can't be a raging addict hosting orgies in front of our kids and think you're going to live with me in this house.

[1049] But I do think this is where the story is corrosive is I've been married since I was born to a woman.

[1050] And that woman brought people around.

[1051] And I have pledged to myself because I love myself.

[1052] I won't be along for the ride of a woman I love.

[1053] And so that's the baggage I carry to previous relationships.

[1054] It's like, I'm waiting for you to behave in a way that maybe my mom did, that I've pledged to myself I won't tolerate ever again.

[1055] Do you feel like you've been married to your mom since you were born?

[1056] No question that my relationship to my mother is a massively profound element of my makeup in life.

[1057] But my relationship to my mother is so different than yours to your mother.

[1058] I agree.

[1059] One of the foundations that I didn't realize was the lack of intimacy in my life as a kid.

[1060] And that seeking out intimacy was part of what I wanted because I felt so alone.

[1061] That was a narrative I didn't even know because I grew up the miracle kid.

[1062] And then they'd get children.

[1063] All of a sudden, I looked like a beautiful girl.

[1064] Do you know what I mean?

[1065] You know, the whole thing, chip on my shoulder from Philly, all that stuff.

[1066] Right, right.

[1067] It's like, wait a second, wait a second.

[1068] What was the reality?

[1069] Yeah, yeah, you were shy as shit, dude.

[1070] You were alone a lot.

[1071] And part of that bored imagination, which, thank goodness, I've been able to put into art. We would both agree, right?

[1072] I'm eternally grateful for my childhood.

[1073] Oh.

[1074] I'm exactly where I want to be.

[1075] Let's be clear.

[1076] I wouldn't change an element.

[1077] Me neither.

[1078] We always talk about this.

[1079] Being addicted to cocaine, greatest gift of my life.

[1080] Yeah, it's awesome.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] I don't think I would have gotten sober.

[1083] If it was just alcohol, I think I would have carried the lineage of my predecessors.

[1084] And I'd be 50.

[1085] I'd be a dad thinking that drinking's fine.

[1086] And then one day, my daughter would see me the way I saw my dad.

[1087] and who knows what I would do.

[1088] Yeah, then it all blows up.

[1089] Okay, this is really perfect foundation for Maestro.

[1090] Oh, yeah.

[1091] It is.

[1092] First of all, obviously, it's really, really well made.

[1093] You did it again.

[1094] It's really perfectly acted.

[1095] Everything's great.

[1096] Very unique tone that's consistent over three different film stocks and all of that is really impressive.

[1097] The opening line is great art will create more questions than it answers in a nutshell.

[1098] And this man, who I know nothing about, Leonard Bernstein, I'm so.

[1099] fucking mad at.

[1100] I hate his fucking guts.

[1101] I hate him so much.

[1102] It's so personal watching this, which, again, is a testament to how fucking great it is.

[1103] I finished it.

[1104] My first knee jerks were like, why even make a movie about a guy like that?

[1105] I mean, when he looks at his daughter and lies, I wanted to fucking go through the screen and kill him.

[1106] Because you wanted him to tell the truth?

[1107] Yes, and I'll get to what it's all about.

[1108] But this morning while journaling, I'm like, what's going on?

[1109] And I'm like, it's all a continuum.

[1110] I'm on that continuum.

[1111] I am Leonard Bernstein.

[1112] I want glory.

[1113] I want to be seen as special.

[1114] I want to have a skill that's rare.

[1115] I want to be adored.

[1116] I want to indulge all of my carnal whimsies, but also have the love of my children and my wife.

[1117] I want to be a selfish monster, and I want to create some kind of art or product that will excuse all my shittiness.

[1118] And I always hate the people that are most like me. That's who I hate the most.

[1119] That's who fucking gets me enraged.

[1120] I am in such judgment of other people that have what I have.

[1121] I don't think I'm Leonard Bernstein, but I think I'm on the continuum.

[1122] And I think I fight being him.

[1123] And so for me, of course, the one moral high ground I have is that I would never look at my daughters and deny the reality they witnessed.

[1124] And so that was the moment we're like, well, he's a piece of fucking shit.

[1125] And I'm not.

[1126] And then I woke up and I Gerald is wondering.

[1127] But I have a question.

[1128] That scene, what did you think was going on with him in that scene?

[1129] Do you think it was hard for him to lie to her?

[1130] I think it was really hard for him to lie to her.

[1131] And I think he told himself he was doing it for his wife.

[1132] And I think maybe you even as an actor were doing it for your wife.

[1133] But then I go, but then go one step further.

[1134] The wife only has to deal with this humiliation of having sold out her feminism.

[1135] And she's afraid to be in front of her daughter a bad model of what a woman should respect herself for because of you.

[1136] So sure, you kicked it down the road and said, I'm lying to protect my wife.

[1137] But really, the reason your wife needs you to lie is because of you.

[1138] He didn't get out of jail for me in that scene.

[1139] It wasn't for the wife, I don't think.

[1140] I mean, it was, but it was for her.

[1141] Sometimes lying.

[1142] But he said I want to tell her.

[1143] She's old enough.

[1144] She's smart enough.

[1145] And then the wife was like, you can't.

[1146] But then when he's sitting with her, I think it was for her.

[1147] I don't think it was in service of the wife.

[1148] Well, I could tell you what was going on because I remember that very, no, no, no, no, I mean going on with me. This is so great, though, Monica and I always have to be.

[1149] You can like turn to the person who knows the truth.

[1150] No, but I don't know the truth.

[1151] I don't know the truth.

[1152] I mean, that's the thing.

[1153] I don't know the truth about the actual conversation that occurred or even like the truth of what is the movie.

[1154] Yes.

[1155] And by the way, I don't know if I even shared this with you, but throughout the process of making the movie, I went through the same machinations that you just described about him.

[1156] I was like, fuck this guy.

[1157] I'm an idiot.

[1158] Why am I spending all this time dedicated to an asshole?

[1159] And it was only because I'm like, oh no, he's reflecting all the shit that terrifies me about myself.

[1160] Dude, it's one of the most brutal mirrors I've ever started.

[1161] You know, it's like, oh shit.

[1162] And if I want to try to approach this without acting, really go there.

[1163] You know what I mean?

[1164] Yeah, you got to be anchoring it to the things in you.

[1165] Exactly.

[1166] And in that moment, I remember so well, because I tried to get it to have two cameras, but the composition I wouldn't, I couldn't.

[1167] So we actually shot separately the sides.

[1168] Because you're in 4 -3 at that point still?

[1169] Yeah, 133.

[1170] So you don't have the width to do dueling overs.

[1171] Yeah, and I didn't want to do French overs.

[1172] I could have done it if I did French overs.

[1173] Too intimate.

[1174] movies showing that we're hiding, and I don't want it to be that way.

[1175] It's supposed to be like I'm actually revealing.

[1176] You almost want it straight down the barrel in this moment.

[1177] Exactly.

[1178] Yeah, yeah.

[1179] And I don't want the audience to be behind them.

[1180] No safety.

[1181] No safety.

[1182] No distance.

[1183] We're distant in other moments where we're peeking in, you know, when they're fighting and we're like, what's going on?

[1184] But now, no, we're in the middle.

[1185] This is a reckoning.

[1186] It was so hard for me to lie to her.

[1187] Every element of my body was saying, this goes against everything I believe.

[1188] As Bradley.

[1189] As Lenny and Bradley.

[1190] Oh, yeah, that's true.

[1191] Yeah, you guys are in concert there.

[1192] You know, when she says I'm relieved...

[1193] Exactly.

[1194] And I'm going, oh, fuck.

[1195] No. I can't teach you this.

[1196] Relieved about what?

[1197] You're basically going to live through the constructs that have been dictated to us?

[1198] Because early in the movie, the reason why he talks to Felici's like, you're like me. I can't tell you have this accent that's kind of I can't place.

[1199] But your father's American, but you grew up in Chile.

[1200] You lied about coming to New York to say piano, but it's acting.

[1201] We're the same person because the world wants us to be one thing.

[1202] And I find that fucking deplorable.

[1203] And I actually find you attractive.

[1204] You know, remember in college, even when we first started hanging out, we spoke.

[1205] Like we just kept talking.

[1206] Like we were gacked up without gack.

[1207] Yes, dude.

[1208] It's because you're so excited to meet a like -minded person.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] That was like his anchor.

[1211] Yes, the world won't accept me, but I'll never put out this fire.

[1212] And this fire eventually burns everything down.

[1213] Yes.

[1214] Unfortunately, we can get to that in a second.

[1215] But in that moment, I would never say that really is Lenny.

[1216] But that character, Lenny, it fucking killed him to lie to her.

[1217] Yeah, you could tell.

[1218] Because the one thing he could hold on to, was his identity of an unabashedly honest human being in a world that's trying to put him in a different category.

[1219] Which is the most selfish if you think about it.

[1220] Also, but it's the only time we've seen his own behavior actually catch up with him.

[1221] He sees it affect other people.

[1222] He has to curtail his own way of living.

[1223] So that was a fascinating scene to experience.

[1224] I think it's the most powerful scene in the movie.

[1225] I think it's funny that you two projected those feelings, like you were so angry at him because when I watched it, I felt so bad for him.

[1226] I felt anger in the preparation.

[1227] I didn't feel any anger towards him while I was filming it.

[1228] Because life is so complex and people are so complex and he's just one person caught up in this complexity.

[1229] And I believe that he can have all these feelings all at once and that the world doesn't allow for that, but that's his truth.

[1230] And how do you reconcile that?

[1231] So for me, I was just like, oh, life is so hard.

[1232] What I like about it is it exposes our own things.

[1233] So there would have been another character that would have been doing something that's one of your flaws and character gay.

[1234] And you would be irate.

[1235] And I would be like, again, I've overcome snorting cocaine.

[1236] So when I see people snorting cocaine, I'm not like those losers.

[1237] They need to get their shit together.

[1238] I just have compassion and I get it.

[1239] Six months sober?

[1240] I was like, these motherfuckers never going to get their shit together.

[1241] You know, I don't have that issue anymore.

[1242] But I think this is so funny.

[1243] And then it's so obvious to me why you and I have the same reaction and interest in this is that we got a lot of feelings about someone that acts like that.

[1244] I don't have a lot of feelings about Carrie She might have been flawed throughout this And she probably did things that if you are a codependent Or someone that lost your identity to another person You'd be in such great judgment of her the whole movie I wasn't because that's not the fucking dragon I'm battling every night in bed Dragon's the right word That's what she calls him You're a dragon And that's part of he's like Oh, you see me and you love me You know I'm a dragon And you're kissing me Yeah You know that's why that first scene When they're rehearsing That's what she says to him When he's playing the king yes exactly yes who doesn't want to be with someone who sees you and loves you so i could do anything i want and then there's the tragic flaw and again you evaluate your life it's the great relapse fantasy it's like i can do it this way and as long as the other people don't know that'll be a success i just keep it from everybody and you ignore the fact that you'll never keep it from yourself his behavior comes home to roost in that scene with his daughter irregardless of the other people around him whether he's kept it on the rails or not and you're right no matter whether was that moment in his life or another, it was going to come back to Roost, like you said.

[1245] And also the duality of he's also teaching and helping.

[1246] No one's good or bad.

[1247] Part of what she said seeped in because be kind to him.

[1248] Those are the last word she says to her daughter basically in the movie.

[1249] Kindness, kindness, kindness.

[1250] So something did seep through.

[1251] I mean, of course, you're always evaluating whether someone's doing just enough good stuff to excuse their bad stuff.

[1252] Like just keeping their own self -esteem in homeostasis.

[1253] Two for you, one for me. I've certainly been guilty of two goods.

[1254] And now I've something for me. The other for me genius element was I have no reverence for conductors.

[1255] Full honesty, I have been to the symphony.

[1256] I'm watching the guy with the baton and I'm watching the musicians and I'm like, they don't ever look at this guy.

[1257] This is like, I'm wrong.

[1258] No, you're not.

[1259] Kristen explained the whole thing.

[1260] You're not.

[1261] That does occur.

[1262] Okay.

[1263] So for me, it was such a wonderful exposure of my own priorities and things I value, which is he's getting so much love and affection for this thing that a Dax Shepherd thinks is almost fraudulent.

[1264] Really, you spin this thing around.

[1265] That's such an accomplishment.

[1266] That's worthy of worship and praise.

[1267] And it's preposterous that that little tiny thing he does would excuse anything.

[1268] And then I go, yeah, and my things are just as preposterous.

[1269] I too have a stupid thing I do.

[1270] Does that make any sense?

[1271] Yes, that's really interesting.

[1272] I mean, it's very helpful that this character was such a legend.

[1273] in something that I didn't personally ever...

[1274] But he also composed.

[1275] Now, had you done a rock star or a film director or a race car driver, I would have been trapped in a little bit of, yes, this is a worthy pursuit and does justify some shit.

[1276] You do have to dedicate yourself to your thing in a manner that alienates other people.

[1277] But because I could find no purchase in the things he excelled at, that actually, like, is a gift to me. Because it pointed out how equally preposterous the things I value are, and that there isn't a hierarchy.

[1278] It's just you do something great and you hope you won't have to play by any rules because you do something great.

[1279] 100%.

[1280] It got me fucking rubbed up.

[1281] I'm glad.

[1282] It's really, really good.

[1283] Yeah, it's really about that.

[1284] Like, it took me all night to sleep on it and then to journal about it this morning.

[1285] Because I was even thinking, like, what am I going to talk to Cooper about?

[1286] What is my angle?

[1287] And other than the obvious things, like I said, it's fucking perfectly made.

[1288] I didn't know how I felt emotionally about it.

[1289] And then once I was journaling, I'm like, oh, I know exactly how I feel about this.

[1290] This is the kind of person I hate because this is the side of me I hate.

[1291] The reason I did the movie, one of the reasons in terms of focusing on him and investigating this person, is that in the research, and we talk about elements of ourselves and him, but this guy lived his life in all of those aspects you're saying at a hundred.

[1292] Right, right.

[1293] Like that one human being was able to, with such abandon, embody all of the hypocrisies and contradictions of the human experience in his lifetime was mind -blowing to me. No wonder he died at 72.

[1294] He went full throttle.

[1295] Full throttle from 13 years old till 72.

[1296] Right.

[1297] Start smoking when he was 13.

[1298] Ash trays in the bathtub.

[1299] Couldn't sleep, by the way.

[1300] Total insomniac.

[1301] Add that to the equation.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] Asthmatic.

[1304] He was probably feeling physically terrible while also pushing through.

[1305] I mean, if he was healthy, you would have lived to like 130.

[1306] You know, and I talked to his kids about that.

[1307] I was like, what happened to his brain?

[1308] because, you know, drank a lot.

[1309] The guy just devoured.

[1310] He was a dragon.

[1311] Yes, yes.

[1312] Chom, chom, chom.

[1313] And they were like, his brain was sharp as a tack till he died.

[1314] It's like, God gave him everything.

[1315] Let's see how the human experience works on this human being when they have everything.

[1316] Beautiful, charismatic, effortlessly, totally present.

[1317] If you watch interviews with him, he reminds me of Michael Jordan.

[1318] There's like no inner monologue.

[1319] It's just, you're asking him a question, and he's answering it.

[1320] His sense of self, whatever that thing is that he was given is so concrete and abuliant for others to be around.

[1321] That's why everybody I interviewed said, like, well, when he walked in the room, you know, it's what you hear about Clinton.

[1322] The energy changes.

[1323] If he looks at you, you're like, I'm seen.

[1324] You're the only person in the room.

[1325] These are massive weapons to explore this guy that reflects to various degrees in all of us.

[1326] He embodied everything at a 10.

[1327] I thought, this is interesting.

[1328] That was the thought.

[1329] I do believe the more I sit on it, because as you just say that, Yeah, like massive arsenal.

[1330] What human is going to navigate that with total morality at all times?

[1331] That's a lot.

[1332] To have that effect on people and to not enjoy that and to not want to live in that permanently.

[1333] I mean, think about it.

[1334] A guy brought a gun to school to kill him a student because he couldn't take that this person was living.

[1335] Yeah.

[1336] Because it reflected how less than he was and that his teacher strangled him during a rehearsal.

[1337] Those things happened.

[1338] One of the things I realized was that I'd never tell my daughter is like, you hurt my feelings, ever.

[1339] Because a kid can't hurt an adult's feelings.

[1340] That's too much power to give them.

[1341] Because when I was a kid and I heard that I was causing acid to run down my grandfather's esophagus, right?

[1342] Because you'd say you give me ajeda.

[1343] I'm six years old going, how am I pouring acid down this God, who was a police officer?

[1344] Imagine being a young man in your 20s and a kid comes to school.

[1345] try to kill you because of jealousy, and your teacher is strangling you because you're too talented.

[1346] Think about what that would do to you.

[1347] Have you found compassion in playing him?

[1348] I guess we all know this.

[1349] This is a well -worn trope.

[1350] You can't be in judgment of the people you play.

[1351] You know, it's interesting.

[1352] I was thinking about that the other day.

[1353] I think I lived by that.

[1354] Like, you have to love your characters.

[1355] I don't believe that at all.

[1356] The one gift that I've been given is empathy as a human being.

[1357] And the flip side is that is I'm so sensitive and could be hurt so easily.

[1358] I think that also is part of why.

[1359] I feel like I found the right thing to do with my life professionally.

[1360] Those things could be a benefit to telling a story.

[1361] They're like height for a center.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] And I have so much empathy for him because of all the things I've just been saying because he was alive and had all of these traits as a human being and he had to survive with that.

[1364] And it's not like a two -for -one thing that you're saying, but I don't believe at all.

[1365] You know, that fight when she says it's just hate in your heart.

[1366] All you care about is showing everybody that they're less than you.

[1367] I don't believe that at all.

[1368] And nor does she.

[1369] And that's the hope of that.

[1370] That's also too binary.

[1371] Yeah.

[1372] I think it can be both.

[1373] Of course he loves the idol aspect.

[1374] But at the core, what I feel from him, and you could take any video, if you like YouTube, Leonard Bernstein, played any random one.

[1375] And you and I talked about his eyes and his voice, I don't see hate.

[1376] I see generosity.

[1377] Now, that doesn't mean he wasn't a monster at times.

[1378] But I do believe there's a deep light.

[1379] And that's where we get into a much harder and more nuanced question, which is, can we have these super special people and expect that they're going to be completely normal than when we need them to be?

[1380] His tragic flaw, and it's by his upbringing, the way society viewed him, his religion, his talent, he had a whole bunch of weapons pointed towards him.

[1381] But his tragic flaw in what we know now living in this, in quotes, evolved culture is that he could have done the work.

[1382] to try to be more centered and have boundaries and be able to live a life of kindness.

[1383] And I think that he didn't have those tools.

[1384] Yeah, he was living when if you were an alcoholic, he went to the sanitarium.

[1385] That's right.

[1386] Yeah.

[1387] That's a great point.

[1388] You can only be so disappointed in someone living in the context.

[1389] It has to be contextualized.

[1390] Yeah, that's very fair.

[1391] He had a lot of fires burning all at once.

[1392] I can have a great family.

[1393] I'll fuel that fire.

[1394] Everybody wants to fuck me. I'll fuel that fire.

[1395] I'm a once in a generation artist I'll fuel that, composing and conducting.

[1396] Very hard to stoke both with equal fervor.

[1397] So you have all these fires burning.

[1398] You can't keep them all.

[1399] I mean, if I've learned one thing, focus on one thing.

[1400] But if you're trying to keep all of these things going, eventually they're not going to be tended to and they're going to burn out or they're going to take over everything.

[1401] Well, and that gets to the heart of one of my cardinal sins.

[1402] I'm greedy.

[1403] I want everything.

[1404] I want to be the best drummer Los Angeles.

[1405] But do you still?

[1406] No, it definitely has dissipated.

[1407] That's what I'm saying.

[1408] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1409] Even sitting here watching you, I don't see any of that.

[1410] Do you?

[1411] It can be confusing.

[1412] I'm really referencing the foundational stuff I battle, and I do think there's been great progress.

[1413] So I am in no way.

[1414] Because your core that I will go to the grave is kindness.

[1415] No matter all this shit you and I have been through.

[1416] If not kindness, I want the best for the people that I love.

[1417] I would say that's kindness.

[1418] Okay, good.

[1419] That's how we're going to define.

[1420] And I don't know.

[1421] Here's the thing I wasn't sure.

[1422] I was urged to declare this diagnosis on him.

[1423] But I was looking for like just textbook narcissism as like a real personality disorder.

[1424] Are the people around him props or is he genuinely concerned about the people around him?

[1425] Does he want to help them as much as he wants to be helped by them?

[1426] That was another thing I found myself kind of evaluated.

[1427] And again, because like I would, alcoholism, I try to really go, hey man, it would be real easy for you to start drinking.

[1428] making the Kool -Aid, you've got to really mind yourself about narcissism.

[1429] And so I think I'm hyper aware of other people, right or wrong.

[1430] But who's keeping him in check?

[1431] Why can't he have all of it for a long time?

[1432] No one's saying stop this or no one's giving ultimatums.

[1433] So what human would say, I guess on my own, I'm going to give up this thing that is fulfilling me right now.

[1434] None of us would do that if there weren't people saying you can't.

[1435] Like if you were actively betraying someone.

[1436] Yeah, and they're saying, look, I'm walking out or I'm leaving or you can't do this to me. That was not happening.

[1437] And so it would take a astronomical level of understanding.

[1438] I think there was a lot of, no, first of all, just professionally what he overcame.

[1439] Never an American conductor, certainly a Jew.

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] To come into this art form.

[1442] Hoover had a folder on him that was this thick.

[1443] Looks about three inches to look for the listener.

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] Imagine those are all tiny papers.

[1446] Very thin papers.

[1447] The thin is available for the FBI.

[1448] He overcame so much.

[1449] And if you go back and read, talk about bad reviews.

[1450] Oh, did he get eviscerated?

[1451] His whole career.

[1452] Really?

[1453] Oh, yeah.

[1454] Oh, that's so comforting, isn't it?

[1455] People made fun of his tactics.

[1456] In the 80s, his conducting was all of a sudden praised by the very people that were ridiculed.

[1457] You know, he was a unicorn.

[1458] People don't want unicorns.

[1459] They're scared.

[1460] And the other difference I felt that I can't relate to is, I don't know so much that he needed the praise of people because he was so aware that he was a dragon.

[1461] He had that in his own heart.

[1462] Because it was a reality.

[1463] You know, that was the idea of the beginning of the movies.

[1464] He's not living with us.

[1465] And God says, I'm going to call you to come down here and show people this thing.

[1466] Now, that's a huge gift I'm giving you.

[1467] Let's see what you do with it.

[1468] We've witnessed it most recently a couple times in John Batiste.

[1469] Oh, dude.

[1470] Yeah, no. He's unbelievable.

[1471] He's a gift.

[1472] He's a joke.

[1473] And talk about present.

[1474] I can see in John Batiste's eyes that he is both grateful for the adoration, but that's not even in the equation.

[1475] This pursuit is so far beyond that.

[1476] And that was Lenny's, too, I felt.

[1477] That helps me link those two, actually.

[1478] Okay.

[1479] He was like a ridiculous talent, Lenny.

[1480] When you get a chance, just YouTube, Leonard Bernstein does the history of music in five minutes.

[1481] Oh, fuck, okay.

[1482] Dude, it'll be a very John experience.

[1483] It is.

[1484] He takes you through the beginning of sound to now.

[1485] Oh, wow.

[1486] In five minutes.

[1487] Yeah, I need to see that.

[1488] Yeah, yeah.

[1489] And you're just like, okay.

[1490] And you're asking a while.

[1491] Again, here's the compassion thing.

[1492] asking so much you're asking someone to live on another plane or that stuff is accessible and then between 5 p .m. and 9 a .m. live on your plane.

[1493] That's what I was asking, do we have to have some kind of tolerance for if we want the things we want?

[1494] Is Michael Jordan the funnest teammate?

[1495] No, you're not going to get the funnest teammate and the teammate that brings you six championships.

[1496] There also has to be some level of honesty in these equations, I guess.

[1497] Yes.

[1498] Now it doesn't excuse if you're being hurt by that person, but at the same time, there's just a certain reality.

[1499] I think a lot of people want a lot of reward and not a lot of risk.

[1500] And that feels dishonest as well.

[1501] Stay tuned for more FarmShare expert, if you dare.

[1502] Getting back to what's the reason to make this movie, I never really thought about weighing the analysis of it all in terms of judgment or win or lose.

[1503] It was more like, I think this guy reflects things that we all feel and go through on a cinematic level because it's on steroids.

[1504] So the hope is, the reason why you guys do this, you want to connect with people.

[1505] That's it, bottom line, can it connect with you so you don't feel so alone as a human?

[1506] Period.

[1507] It's real simple.

[1508] And I hope to let you into my POV occasionally.

[1509] That is the connection.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] That's the means by which we don't feel so alone.

[1512] I don't want to live in a room by myself for my whole life.

[1513] I need people.

[1514] Also, they're great reminders because you evaluate everyone around you assuming they're living in the same reality as you are, and it's wrong.

[1515] And to have something tangible to experience someone else's reality actually remind you like, oh, no, we're all living in our own little thing.

[1516] And so it's really important to remember this isn't the only version.

[1517] It's all subjective.

[1518] There's nothing objective about reality, which is scary, but true.

[1519] But we assume it is.

[1520] And don't you think social media and media in general reflects just how disparate realities are?

[1521] 100%.

[1522] We actually have a booklet of another reality that we could over.

[1523] open up and read.

[1524] And you're like, oh, wow, that's a completely different analysis of even things and people that I know.

[1525] Yes.

[1526] Right.

[1527] You and I are doing it individually, personally, with our own story.

[1528] It's like, oh, that was a story that worked for 40 -some years.

[1529] That's right.

[1530] Is that still the story that'll work for the next 40?

[1531] And it might be time to make a new one.

[1532] Yes.

[1533] I just wanted to ask really quick, because you had done so much research.

[1534] I recently read the Mike Nichols biography.

[1535] Have you read that?

[1536] I read sections of it.

[1537] I heard it's incredible.

[1538] I'm thinking about you the entire time I read it.

[1539] I just kept thinking, Cooper has to be obsessed with this book.

[1540] And again, I was a Philistine on him.

[1541] Like, everyone in New York knows about Hart Nichols.

[1542] It's like a very elevated, same with Lenny Bernstein.

[1543] And Leonard Bernstein was godfather to their children.

[1544] I knew you were doing the movie, and then I was reading the book, and then I was learning that Mike hung out with him in Martha's Vineyard all the time.

[1545] And then, of course, I got more interested in Leonard Bernstein because this new guy I'm obsessed with Mike Nichols was somehow connected to him and sharing some.

[1546] some thing but again i don't know what parts of that book you read but you know he was like fucking smoking crack during a lot of these movies i know and then addicted to this benzo that made him go crazy for a year and he like sold everything he owned because he thought he was going broke i mean this motherfucker was on a ride while making all these incredible things and i didn't even know he had been the most legendary comedian of his day what i know nickels and may insane so to me i was like oh these two feel very similar in that they're doing everything yeah Somehow Mike Nichols is the best Broadway director, but he's also doing movies and he was the most inventive comedian with May. And it's fucking smoking crack.

[1547] And a father and married to Diane Sawyer.

[1548] Makes me so fascinated with her.

[1549] And beloved.

[1550] Totally.

[1551] That's the key.

[1552] But that was at a time when you could be.

[1553] I don't know about now.

[1554] Given his lifestyle, you mean?

[1555] Yeah.

[1556] And just that we don't like keeping people on top now.

[1557] Oh, interesting.

[1558] We want him to be that, but then we'd love to tear him down at this point if he was having now.

[1559] What's your relationship to that?

[1560] People wanting people to fall.

[1561] Do you agree with that?

[1562] Yeah.

[1563] I don't think anyone's nefarious or malicious.

[1564] I think that we are all blueprinted to tell stories.

[1565] And when someone gets to the very top, we need a third act.

[1566] So unless they can get higher, yeah, I think in general people are like, well, what's next?

[1567] And status monkeys, you get tired of seeing the same people on top, and it feels unjust and unfair.

[1568] And so let's use our power to take them down.

[1569] I think it's rough.

[1570] What do you think about it?

[1571] I never thought of it.

[1572] It's always so interesting to hear your point of view, this idea of like just needing more of a story because then it gets stale.

[1573] I look at it from a different point of view.

[1574] My own lens, which is I don't want to be alone.

[1575] And I do think that's a deep need.

[1576] I mean, we're social animals.

[1577] Exactly.

[1578] There's nothing easier to connect with somebody by putting somebody else down, right?

[1579] That's the old thing.

[1580] You and I can shit on somebody that we know and we'll feel like, oh, look how connected we are.

[1581] It won't last long now.

[1582] And let me applaud you.

[1583] And I have given you credit on here many times.

[1584] You are actually the person that pointed that out to me. I can remember so clearly three things you've said to me. One was when someone's talking shit about someone else to me, it tells me more about them than the person they're talking shit about.

[1585] I was like, ugh.

[1586] That opened up a whole world to me. One was my own vanity.

[1587] Other people are onto what Cooper said.

[1588] I'm just exposing myself.

[1589] Two, I started noticing I do it to point out a virtue of my own.

[1590] If I'm on set and I go like, oh, where's Mike?

[1591] 15 minutes behind, I guess.

[1592] If I say that, I'm saying I'm on time.

[1593] And I actually won't move through the world bragging about myself for being on time.

[1594] So once I just connect the pieces of what I'm really doing, then I don't have an appetite for it anymore.

[1595] And I've discovered so many traits of my behavior that I didn't even realize until this foundation thing, this new story we are telling ourselves that's more close to the truth.

[1596] And I laugh at my boundaryless behavior.

[1597] And I think like, oh, I know what I was doing.

[1598] I had justified it all because I'm honest, that whole thing.

[1599] Well, I don't lie.

[1600] It's a little bit more than that.

[1601] Unless you're lying to yourself.

[1602] Yeah, exactly.

[1603] Yeah, exactly.

[1604] Yeah, you might be telling the truth all the time.

[1605] Your truth is totally wrong.

[1606] And I could feel it on myself, it's so much easier to shit on somebody and connect.

[1607] And I feel like this new reality that's out there that has been cultivated for years.

[1608] When we first started being in this business, I think is the inception of it with like message boards.

[1609] You know, remember back in the day.

[1610] Your story with message boards is so fantastic.

[1611] But I think that was the beginning of it.

[1612] And now if you're part of a school council, you can go and read the comment.

[1613] Like, it's everywhere.

[1614] Everybody has their own little pocket of Hollywood and has to sustain a level of humanity or just sustenance given the amount of slings and arrows that they can read about themselves on a daily basis.

[1615] What saddens me is that it's the easiest way to connect with people by putting other people down.

[1616] That's kind of sweet, though.

[1617] When you actually frame it that way, it gives me sympathy for the two monkeys talking shit on the third monkey.

[1618] It's like, oh, I see.

[1619] they want companionship, this seems like the easiest way.

[1620] But it's still hurtful.

[1621] Oh, God, yeah.

[1622] But my goal is to hopefully give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

[1623] It's very hard for me a lot of times.

[1624] But when you frame it that way, it actually allows me to be a little sympathetic to it.

[1625] Yeah, because I can relate to it.

[1626] It's not like these people are monsters and I'm a good guy.

[1627] It's, I don't want us as a collective to go into that base, easy way of communicating because all it's going to do is cannibalize ourselves.

[1628] Because everybody's going to start feeling horrible about themselves.

[1629] suicide rates going to skyrocket, drug use, and we're going to get lost.

[1630] To grow takes work and not easy work, and it never ends.

[1631] Yeah, bad news.

[1632] But when you work hard and people are working hard around you, and love is the actual tool, I can't believe that this movie got made the way it did.

[1633] There was a tremendous amount of adversity, but there were enough people filled with love that made this film, and that's the only reason that it was able to become what it is.

[1634] And that I know for a fact until I don't know it, which is you and I undertake something and we work hard, and we approach it with love.

[1635] I don't know what we're capable of achieving.

[1636] Because we're doing it together, I don't know where the ceiling is.

[1637] Right.

[1638] That's really exciting.

[1639] We're a multiplicate.

[1640] But if I do it on my own, I know I'll never get to where I could get if I'm surrounded by people that are all working together.

[1641] This ability to connect with each other so quickly, globally, as a collective, we have so much opportunity.

[1642] It just saddens me that the negative aspect of it is also so destructive because it's the easiest.

[1643] Yeah.

[1644] Well, it's incredible.

[1645] Do you know what you're going to do next?

[1646] yeah oh fun i watched it and when it ended i was like i don't know where he musters up another i want to talk to you about it offline i'm very curious what you're going to think because i always love your perspective well thank you i also need to just point out it doesn't have anything to do with maestro but of course in my research i watch your most recent phalan you guys have the most special thing it's so fun to watch i can't believe how fun it is to watch you two together do you fucking just love going there yeah totally you are so calm when you're there it's incredible you've got like these very low and energy counterpunches that are so great the whole time you're never in a hurry it's very bill murray when you're there what do you think it is about that relationship does it exist outside of the show i don't really know them outside the show that well at all like zero wow did you see the most recent one i don't know if i saw the most recent oh my god i don't know if it's an in -show promo for these actual glasses he's got like these glasses that you can hit record on it any time oh i did see that yes and they're like going back and forth the glasses it could probably have gone on for 26 minutes I don't know.

[1647] And then we're trying to talk about the high school reunion.

[1648] You guys can't do anything sincere.

[1649] That's what's consistent between the two.

[1650] It's a chemistry.

[1651] That's real.

[1652] Yes.

[1653] And every time you try to talk about something for real, it cannot be done.

[1654] And there's something so fucking entertaining about it.

[1655] Getting back to this story thing, I know I keep talking about, but I've noticed as I've gotten older and more present and boundaryed, I'm just calmer in my life.

[1656] And one way that I really recognize it is how I cry.

[1657] Because this love on the spectrum show, I cry through the whole show.

[1658] Right, right.

[1659] Whenever I get emotional in my life, I'm always like, I'm the ugliest cryer because my whole body starts to shake.

[1660] Like, I was never like the one -tier guy.

[1661] Like, I'm like, you sure you want me to cry in the scene?

[1662] Because it's going to be, you're going to feel very...

[1663] You're going to widen out.

[1664] My body's going to move around.

[1665] It's going to be very uncomfortable.

[1666] I'm going to leave frame at some point.

[1667] And music is so moving.

[1668] I mean, I cried a lot through the research of this movie because I went to so many concerts.

[1669] But that was happening in tandem of all this work I was doing.

[1670] I cry so differently now.

[1671] Oh.

[1672] My body doesn't convolve.

[1673] Because you're not trying to squeeze it in so hard.

[1674] There's just more relaxation.

[1675] That was one of the byproducts.

[1676] I recognized that a couple months ago.

[1677] I was like, tears are just coming down.

[1678] I'm not like having a seizure.

[1679] I really think I'm just calmer and more open.

[1680] It's interesting.

[1681] And that's kind of a beautiful thing.

[1682] I was so happy to feel that and recognize what it was.

[1683] Because I thought, I've never in my life cried like that.

[1684] Remembering my dad, when he would cry, which I never saw until I was like in my 20s, he looked like a baby.

[1685] First of all, his voice would go three octaves.

[1686] higher because he wasn't open.

[1687] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1688] You know, it was really interesting.

[1689] I'm not shocked that we're on a similar crying journey because we've been paralleling each other so perfectly.

[1690] But yeah, I've become a huge cryer in the what Monica last year and a half?

[1691] Two years.

[1692] I cried.

[1693] We did this show on Fridays where we interview armcherrys.

[1694] Half of them I cry in.

[1695] I'm just crying all the time now.

[1696] There's a 30 years I've spent time with.

[1697] That person seeing me cry.

[1698] Probably, I'm not exaggerating.

[1699] I'm not kidding.

[1700] probably 150 times in the last year.

[1701] And I'm just going to go like, it's bonkers.

[1702] Do you have some that always set you off?

[1703] Because I have a very specific thing that seems to set me off.

[1704] It's not sadness.

[1705] It's almost like, it's like spirit that breaks through when...

[1706] Humanity.

[1707] When I see humanity, and that's why I love on the spectrum is like black tar humanity.

[1708] You know what I mean?

[1709] It's just like...

[1710] Lumbian flake.

[1711] yeah for me it's these documentaries about female singers oh wow Kristen came into the room about six months ago when the shenade o 'connor doc came out and i was sitting in bed washing in the middle of the afternoon and she came in my shirt was wet i was just bawling because this woman despite everything would stand there and let it rip fuck everything open up her throat and the chest and let it rip and fuck you i won't let you i won't let you you not let me shine and I'm like it fucked me it's so bad it's always the same kind of vibe it's funny you say that as the business has changed most of what I talk to Dave Boliari about is we're going to get another T -Mobile commercial and is Louis Vuitton going to keep us for a watch campaign that's it that's literally the discussions yes well you're kind of handling the other thing on your own and it doesn't really bring in revenue right you know so it's like everything's changed I know and so I was at the Louis Vuitton Paris men's fashion show for that And Pharrell is the artistic director.

[1712] And after the show, he brought on a group of musicians from a reservation.

[1713] So they start singing.

[1714] And I'm sitting there, you know, with the Louis Vuitton alpha.

[1715] Trying to represent the brand well.

[1716] And these men open their mouths and start, like you said, will not be quiet.

[1717] And I'm going to show you all the pain is going to come out of my instrument of my body right now.

[1718] Because we're wind and string instruments, right?

[1719] That's what we are.

[1720] We're both as humans, right?

[1721] Because we have our vocal cords and air goes through us.

[1722] So it's like two instruments at once being played through a human voice.

[1723] Never thought of that.

[1724] And bro.

[1725] Luckily, because as I'm getting older, I need glasses.

[1726] You know?

[1727] And so think, and I don't know about you, but I'm so happy.

[1728] Luckily, I need glasses.

[1729] Luckily, I need glasses.

[1730] And I was, like, convulsing.

[1731] But again, I was loose, so it wasn't far, but, like, I was like.

[1732] And just floods of touch.

[1733] tears.

[1734] By the way, it wasn't like it took a second.

[1735] You didn't need a ramp up.

[1736] They said action.

[1737] That's right.

[1738] It was exactly the same thing.

[1739] Yes.

[1740] That someone would be beautiful despite all the fucking voices trying to shame them or embarrass them for being so.

[1741] It's the greatest.

[1742] All right, I love Leonard Bernstein.

[1743] You came around.

[1744] Oh, Bradley.

[1745] We really had to go.

[1746] Also, shout out to Dave.

[1747] You just brought them up.

[1748] But I'm always so flat ever occasionally boogs will text me that he's listened to an episode it's always so thoughtful and nice of him i wanted to talk about your high school reunion i think it's so fascinating you went there but we don't have time you got to come back more i would love to it's so fun what percentage of your life is in l .a now 10 5 oh no 2 we can ever just pull out entirely or no i don't want to right and luckily it's a two -bedroom house it's okay but you know who knows who knows if uh baton gets the footage of you fucking collapsing at the fashion show.

[1749] If you want to be an extremely sensitive man, Louis Vuitton.

[1750] That's what we want.

[1751] That's what we want.

[1752] That's what we're asking for.

[1753] You got to go.

[1754] I'm getting the calls.

[1755] Okay, great.

[1756] I'll let you go.

[1757] Did you watch the Beckham Dock?

[1758] I sure did.

[1759] As I've gotten healthier, I know about less people now.

[1760] I don't know who's doing great at this or that.

[1761] I'm not really sure who's succeeding on massive levels.

[1762] I think it's like a good sign that I'm not tracking anybody.

[1763] But in that I've also.

[1764] a lost, as I've gotten older, people I just in awe of, and I miss it.

[1765] And I watch Beckham.

[1766] And I'm like, thank you.

[1767] We're back to me seeing Brad Pitt for the first time.

[1768] Oh, interesting.

[1769] I want to look like you.

[1770] I started wearing sweaters and blue jeans again.

[1771] Oh, that's interesting.

[1772] I love his tattoos on his neck.

[1773] I love how he cleans his countertop.

[1774] And I'm like, oh, good.

[1775] I got one.

[1776] I was afraid I couldn't get that anymore.

[1777] That's funny.

[1778] I almost had the opposite reaction where I was like, yeah, everybody's human.

[1779] Everybody's dealt with adversity Because my idea, Beckham, is like Oh, the guy, which people I'm sure have said about us Born and then everything is easy They never had a cavity They don't have to wipe It's like, oh yeah, the human experience Again, getting back to that Is filled with strife, period Yeah, but if you can look as cool as him While you're going through it That'd be dope Oh my God All right, I love you.

[1780] This was so fun Thanks for having me I'm glad you're doing so well You too, eyes are banging Oh, good Yeah, all right, love you Love you Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong No, I was getting my hair cut Oh yeah, let's nice Oh, thank you Two years younger One's years younger Four's years younger Oh, I just love how the sides feel Do you like to touch it a lot?

[1781] I do, I do I remember when I was younger and the first time I shaved my head Probably chew a caramel I will You're Wow Wow I almost caught it Oh Me too And I didn't see mine Come until right before I hit my face It's soft You really believe I'm gonna like it If your problem is that it's like an hour To chew through it Okay You'll be done in Seconds 45 seconds And should I suck it or chew it Oh wow It depends on your preference I mean I don't know if that makes it If you suck it'll last The most thing I'm eating today, is that bad?

[1782] Yeah, not ideal.

[1783] I know.

[1784] Why don't I wait until I eat?

[1785] No, no, but we need it for the pot.

[1786] Well, I guess this is what work is about.

[1787] It'll make you hyper for the fact check.

[1788] No one's going to like what I'm about to say.

[1789] Uh -oh.

[1790] Which already, it's too much.

[1791] Well, it is a big piece.

[1792] Well, it's like so sticky.

[1793] It does taste very good.

[1794] It's the duck fat.

[1795] The game is to like two, not all the way.

[1796] and so I dance it on your molars so it doesn't stick.

[1797] I kind of like the challenge of it.

[1798] It tastes so meaty because of the duck fat.

[1799] I got put it away.

[1800] Oh, you know, I didn't finish it?

[1801] I'll finish it later.

[1802] This is how I feel about caramels.

[1803] Like, I don't want to finish it.

[1804] It's going to take me an hour or finish it.

[1805] How can people not like the sound of that?

[1806] It sounds so funny.

[1807] It's all stuck.

[1808] It's all stuck on my teeth.

[1809] I appreciate you trying.

[1810] I loved mine.

[1811] But I already knew I loved it.

[1812] It does taste really good, though.

[1813] I even broke my sugar for you.

[1814] Wow.

[1815] Yeah.

[1816] That's a big deal.

[1817] Okay, back to the first time I shaved my head.

[1818] Okay.

[1819] I remembered, like, submerging my head in a bowl of water.

[1820] Uh -huh.

[1821] Like, tipping my head down.

[1822] For what?

[1823] I had shaved my head.

[1824] I know.

[1825] And then I, like, wanted to get all the, like, whatever.

[1826] Residue.

[1827] Residue.

[1828] Yeah, all the little particles out.

[1829] Uh -huh.

[1830] And when I dipped my head in, it was one of the craziest sensations of my life.

[1831] Wow.

[1832] What did it tell me more?

[1833] I don't know what to say other than tickle -tickle -y -prickles.

[1834] You know when you get you get tingleys on your scalp?

[1835] Like when hairplay?

[1836] Sure, sure, sure.

[1837] Yeah, it was just like putting a dome of hairplay on.

[1838] So it's like someone was playing with your hair when you put your head in the water.

[1839] As I was inserting it into the water, as the water took over the whole shape, I was like, ooh, like I got it.

[1840] The chip, like a Oh.

[1841] Pleasure chill.

[1842] That's what they're called pleasure chills.

[1843] Wow.

[1844] Yeah, I really missed that.

[1845] But not worth shaving my head again.

[1846] That was part of my downfall in junior high when I got too, yeah, too close to the sun.

[1847] I thought I could pull off.

[1848] I thought I could pull anything off and I couldn't.

[1849] I know.

[1850] It really will expose how big your nose is when you shave your hat.

[1851] Did we ever address the fact that we did the nose swap?

[1852] We posted that.

[1853] Oh, I don't think we talked about it.

[1854] Yeah, it was pretty concluded.

[1855] Well, first of all, a lot of people were like, oh my God, I couldn't figure out what was going, what was wrong with that photo which is funny but also it did prove I think once and for all that my nose is three times a size of yours because your nose looked tiny on my face your mind looked enormous but okay but this is a false negative negative because obviously your nose is bigger than my nose because your face is bigger than my face because you're a bigger person than me okay it's about proportions and I think proportionally my nose on my face is at least the same if not bigger than yours on your face well yeah agree to disagree now there's no way we need another system because we thought that was going to prove it I knew there was a button nose on my face well obviously I mean also the angle of the picture I can do another one I intentionally did not resize noses normally if I'm doing a face swap.

[1856] I'll try to make it proportionate.

[1857] I have a new idea.

[1858] Okay.

[1859] Let's do molds of our nose and then we will be able to hold the mold up.

[1860] In your case, you'll be able to put my nose completely over yours, is my guess.

[1861] Okay, but again, this is the same problem.

[1862] Because you're talking proportionate.

[1863] Yes.

[1864] So what we need to do is we need to measure from the top of our hairline to our chin, but that's a little unfair because I'm a male and have more of a receding hairline.

[1865] But this is all part of it.

[1866] I guess visually.

[1867] Yeah.

[1868] Anyways, yes, we do need to do a full ratio.

[1869] Can we use your penis mold that you posted to do a nose mold?

[1870] Well, I don't know.

[1871] I kind of want to save it for a penis.

[1872] Sure, sure.

[1873] I don't think I'm ready to give it that up yet.

[1874] And that was the only one on Planet Earth.

[1875] Yeah.

[1876] Yes, Drive Away Dolls the movie, which I haven't seen yet.

[1877] But I do want to see it.

[1878] Well, that's a movie promotion?

[1879] Yeah.

[1880] Oh, interesting.

[1881] It's a Cohen, yeah, Ethan Cohen.

[1882] It's a Cohen Brothers movie?

[1883] Yeah.

[1884] And they're handing out penis?

[1885] Yes, of course.

[1886] Well, I don't know, of course.

[1887] That sounds very risque for the Cohen Brothers.

[1888] Oh, don't you think it, to me it sounds so accurate.

[1889] Oh, okay.

[1890] Because they're funny.

[1891] They are funny, but they're also classic.

[1892] They're also not saying, even though you, we've talked about this before because you said, well, when it's one, it's actually both.

[1893] But they're not saying it's the Cohen brothers.

[1894] of saying it's Ethan, I think.

[1895] Yeah, it's just Ethan.

[1896] Bradford, Vermont.

[1897] Bradford, Vermont.

[1898] Bradford, Vermont.

[1899] Oh, that's the location.

[1900] Yes.

[1901] I thought it was your friend Bradford, Vermont.

[1902] Brad from Vermont.

[1903] Yeah, like, this is what basketball players will do.

[1904] Like, Susie Denver, Tiffany Sarasota.

[1905] What do you mean?

[1906] Because they go to a city to play basketball and they meet a Jennifer.

[1907] Oh, oh, yeah.

[1908] you mean in their phone yes yes yes so i thought you i thought you had a brad vermont and i was like oh this is so exciting yeah that would be cool yeah people do that they go to places they hook up and they put in they don't know the last name even if they knew the last name they know in three months the last name won't ring a bell exactly and i think more ambitious and um prolific some of these players got i think there had to be more adjectives because I think there are multiple Jennifer's from Denver and then so sometimes it's Jennifer Denver red hair freckle on nose Oh my God I think you're also giving them a lot of credit because I think they just didn't even put the name in They might not have put the name in I don't know It looks like so his wife wrote it a while ago Script was conceived several decades ago Oh several decades ago Yeah by his wife And she edited a bunch of their earlier movies Wonderful And then he was Ethan explained Me and Joel Would never have made this movie It would not have happened I don't think Me and Joel Would have written a romantic comedy About two female leads Here's the funny thing I think 20 years ago We could have gotten An important lesbian movie made But this is an unimportant lesbian movie That just didn't compute then Oh my God That's hilarious That's really funny Also Matt Damon's in it For a quick hot second Oh he's got a pop Mm -hmm.

[1909] Who are the leads?

[1910] Um, Marguerite Kuali.

[1911] I mean, did I said Morgret?

[1912] Yeah.

[1913] I was like, this is a fresh face.

[1914] I'm introducing Margaret Kuali.

[1915] Margaret Kuali.

[1916] Okay.

[1917] Beanie's in it.

[1918] anyway.

[1919] Okay.

[1920] When I saw.

[1921] I got my penis in the mail.

[1922] And it is exciting.

[1923] Now let me ask you.

[1924] It's a mold.

[1925] I have to mold someone's penis.

[1926] Yeah, now here's a fun question for everyone.

[1927] Okay.

[1928] I would be very flattered if someone asked me. For the mold.

[1929] So, like, would you feel comfortable just asking, like, Matt Damon, like, would you be, would you mind molding your penis?

[1930] Right.

[1931] Because if I were him, I would feel so flattered.

[1932] It's such a compliment.

[1933] That's what I wonder, like, how inappropriate is it?

[1934] To request.

[1935] To ask, like.

[1936] Jimmy to ask Matt for you.

[1937] Yeah.

[1938] Oh, wow.

[1939] To ask a best boy.

[1940] To ask another.

[1941] other best boy.

[1942] If he'll just like make a little mold for me. I mean, this is.

[1943] Don't say a little mold because that might trigger him to not want to do it.

[1944] Big mold.

[1945] Or he'll really want to because he'll want to show it's a big mold.

[1946] Or maybe it's a little.

[1947] That's fine.

[1948] Yeah, I know.

[1949] I don't care.

[1950] Everything's fine.

[1951] I'm just telling you if you approach the dude and say, I want a little mold.

[1952] I can just promise you that the boy will.

[1953] I can't help you.

[1954] Wish can only do big molds.

[1955] If you want a big one, call back.

[1956] Okay, but this is sort of similar to the question of like, can I have just a little bit of your sperm also?

[1957] Is that also a question that?

[1958] Yeah, because we talked about this on Race to 35 with Andrew Huberman.

[1959] Oh, right.

[1960] How would you feel if someone asked for you or sperm to be a donor?

[1961] That to me, well, we've talked about this under maybe a different guise.

[1962] No one asking me. But just that would be a no for me because I couldn't handle knowing that a child of mine was alive and I wasn't helping.

[1963] I know.

[1964] But a penis of mine out there or giving pleasure to somebody.

[1965] You love that.

[1966] Some guy or girl who, you know.

[1967] Yeah, maybe both.

[1968] Maybe it gets passed around.

[1969] Who knows?

[1970] Maybe it's a group party everyone has.

[1971] Right.

[1972] Sounds unhygienic.

[1973] Well, I'm sure they could figure out.

[1974] I don't think you're really thinking much about hygiene when you're in an orgy.

[1975] Yeah, by the way, if you're worried about hygiene in an orgy, Get out of the orgy.

[1976] It's not for you.

[1977] It's not for you.

[1978] Well, I don't think it's for me for that reason.

[1979] Sure.

[1980] And that's great.

[1981] Well, I don't want to say never.

[1982] But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[1983] I agree.

[1984] Right.

[1985] So everyone's going to be honest about it.

[1986] Well, you can have cake and eat it too if you have cake at the orgy.

[1987] But ironically, that might lead to more infections than anything and anyone else was fearful of.

[1988] But it tastes so good.

[1989] Yeah.

[1990] Yeah.

[1991] I do think like high school kids wound up with UTIs and stuff because they got a little too adventurous with the food and stuff.

[1992] They were smearing on each other.

[1993] Yeah.

[1994] UTIs.

[1995] Go get you.

[1996] Okay, so back to the mold.

[1997] The penis mold.

[1998] Yeah.

[1999] Who are your, you're going to send three emails.

[2000] Oh my God.

[2001] Yeah.

[2002] Yeah.

[2003] Three emails.

[2004] Anyone in the whole world?

[2005] Yeah.

[2006] Emails that would go directly to them.

[2007] Like, not like Jimmy to the, that's wasting too.

[2008] You've got a direct line.

[2009] Okay.

[2010] You go, hey, it's Monica.

[2011] I got this really fun thing.

[2012] It's a penis mold.

[2013] and I was just thinking of like whose penis would I want a mold of and yours so if you're up for it I'll send it over Okay and I have another one more question Yeah am I allowed to send it to three people Three different am I allowed to collect three Hmm No my my thought here is just like You're gonna mail the multiple colleges Oh I see and one acceptance Yes I'm gonna accept one okay okay I feel like we know two of them I know that's why like three is a small number.

[2014] Okay, you want to do five?

[2015] Yeah.

[2016] Okay, let's do five.

[2017] Because then two, we know.

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] Matt and Ben, let's just reiterate.

[2020] Because it's your first episode of armchair expert, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are number one and two males sent.

[2021] Not in that order.

[2022] No particular order.

[2023] No particular order.

[2024] Those two, that would be so interesting to see the difference between those two penises.

[2025] Do you think you could tell?

[2026] Oh.

[2027] That's a great question.

[2028] I think I like, in my heart, I feel like I, I do think I could tell.

[2029] I know me too.

[2030] I already feel like I can imagine what they look like.

[2031] Sure, sure.

[2032] Me too.

[2033] Wow.

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] Those two.

[2036] I think, I feel like you're playing longer than you.

[2037] No, no. No, I don't.

[2038] Oh, you don't.

[2039] I really don't.

[2040] Okay, okay.

[2041] Because, look, this is not like.

[2042] Let's not get into the reality.

[2043] I know what you're about to say.

[2044] What?

[2045] Who really wants this penis anyways?

[2046] Oh, no, I wasn't going to say that.

[2047] Oh, okay.

[2048] I was going to say it's different than like who do I want to get married to.

[2049] Of course.

[2050] So it's.

[2051] This is whose dick do you want inside of you?

[2052] Which is very specific.

[2053] Who can I suggest one?

[2054] Carmelo Anthony.

[2055] Yeah, that's a good one.

[2056] Because your fucking pants exploded when he was sitting here.

[2057] They did.

[2058] Again, if you're new to the podcast, is your first episode, Monica's wardrobe literally broke in two places while we were doing the interview.

[2059] The crotch ripped right out.

[2060] And your buttons popped.

[2061] They really did.

[2062] I know.

[2063] It's insane.

[2064] Just from sitting.

[2065] Yeah.

[2066] So that's a good, that's actually a really good pick.

[2067] Okay, great.

[2068] I think my body is going to respond well.

[2069] Yes, clearly.

[2070] As has already been demonstrated.

[2071] And if anyone's married or girlfriended up with these people, or you consent in this, like, whole thing.

[2072] Well, that's the thing.

[2073] So, like, if anyone wanted mold of my penis, again, it'd be super flattering and great.

[2074] Obviously, my first.

[2075] question would have to be like, hold on, I've got to ask my wife if I'm allowed to make a mold.

[2076] You would never ask her that.

[2077] Well, I'd have to ask her that.

[2078] No, you just have to say no, because you know that that she would not want that.

[2079] Let me paint a scenario.

[2080] Okay.

[2081] I bet you I can paint a scenario.

[2082] Virtually, we get a letter from named Judy Dench.

[2083] Oh, okay.

[2084] And she's like, I hope this isn't inappropriate.

[2085] it, but I was watching something and it occurred to me. I would love to have a mold of Dax's penis.

[2086] If this is offensive, my apologies.

[2087] She's so polite.

[2088] Yes.

[2089] In playful and fun and you don't feel like everything's great.

[2090] So Dame Judy Dench requests a mold of my penis.

[2091] I would say to Kristen, hey, I got this email from Judy Dench.

[2092] I'm inclined to make her one.

[2093] Okay.

[2094] And I have a hunch.

[2095] She'll say yes.

[2096] Kristen would say yes.

[2097] I think you're right.

[2098] Yes.

[2099] But realistically, it depends on the person.

[2100] I know, which is funny, because that just proves how arbitrary in your head it is.

[2101] It would depend on the person for you if she was molding her pussy.

[2102] It would, it would.

[2103] Well, for sure.

[2104] Like, you probably wouldn't want Mike to have access to that.

[2105] Oh, interesting.

[2106] I have a sliding scale.

[2107] Like, this has already happened in real life in the past, which is I have a ton of variety of friends.

[2108] I've had varying levels of them being inappropriate with girlfriends I've had.

[2109] Sure.

[2110] And there are certain friends of mine that I saw more predatorial than others.

[2111] Bree and I used to play this game.

[2112] We walk in and we're banging X. What's the reaction?

[2113] I love this, yeah.

[2114] Yes.

[2115] And so always like, if I walked in and Nate and her were making love, I'd be like, I'm kind of happy for both of them.

[2116] Yeah.

[2117] You used to say that about Chris and Nate, too.

[2118] Yeah, I say that about Nate.

[2119] Nate's a love to make love to anyone.

[2120] Which is, okay.

[2121] Now, hold on.

[2122] I want to deep dive into this.

[2123] Yes, because I want to be.

[2124] make clear it's not pity because nate's a stud that's what i was about to say because if i heard that about me i would take that poorly like oh right you would think it would mean you're not threatening exactly that's not it so i'm glad we're getting into the the granular details of this every girl likes nate yeah he's very attractive yes and his personality is like the greatest of all time but he would never ever make anyone uncomfortable or he's just not like a hungry predatory Yeah.

[2125] You feel like it's safe.

[2126] He's so safe.

[2127] Yes, yes.

[2128] And he would never cross.

[2129] Run away with them.

[2130] He's not trying to get what I have so he feels better about himself.

[2131] Right.

[2132] I can isolate when people are trying to get what I have so they can feel above me or superior to me. Oh, as opposed to just being attracted.

[2133] Yeah, that's not really yet.

[2134] Interesting.

[2135] Yep.

[2136] And so you're okay with people just being very attracted to her, but having nothing to do with you.

[2137] Yes.

[2138] And I told you, there was a very very.

[2139] very weird hookup, Freudian slip.

[2140] There was a very weird hiccup in my open relationship with Bree.

[2141] Yeah.

[2142] Which is like, I didn't care.

[2143] I was not jealous, but there were a couple different people over nine years, or I just felt like dude on dude when I was around them.

[2144] I was like, this is more about you trying to alpha me. Uh -huh.

[2145] And like something male to male happened that had nothing to do with whether or not I cared they did something and I didn't know about it.

[2146] And you felt, did you kind of feel like protective of Brie?

[2147] Like, is it even a, like, do you even like her?

[2148] And there was just a couple different dudes where I felt like, oh, this is more of a challenge to me. Interesting.

[2149] And then that became a completely separate issue, but one that did make me. Interesting.

[2150] Against the notion.

[2151] Okay.

[2152] Yeah, there's certainly a ton of people that I guess I wouldn't care.

[2153] And then there's a bunch of people I would not want.

[2154] And same for her, right?

[2155] Like, that's the whole point is.

[2156] Well, I do wonder, this is what we don't know.

[2157] Is there anyone she'd be like, yeah, it's okay?

[2158] That's what I'm saying.

[2159] I'm inclined to say, yeah.

[2160] Like, definitely this name, Judy, Judy Ben.

[2161] Example, I think, is a really good one.

[2162] Like Merrill Street.

[2163] But you know why?

[2164] Oh, Merrill Street.

[2165] Yeah.

[2166] I don't know if she'd want that.

[2167] That's a good one.

[2168] I don't know if she'd want that.

[2169] I'll ask her.

[2170] Yeah, okay, the reason I feel like the answer is no is because even the idea of asking her this type of question, I feel like she's not going to like this.

[2171] Okay, yeah.

[2172] It doesn't need to be asked.

[2173] Even the Judy Dench example.

[2174] Because she'll be like, why do you need to do that?

[2175] These questions, like, it starts getting out of control, you know?

[2176] They're a snowball.

[2177] Why do you need your penis to be out there in the world?

[2178] Right.

[2179] And what would you say?

[2180] Okay, I'd have two things.

[2181] One would be she asked for it.

[2182] Yeah.

[2183] Dame Judy Dench asked for it.

[2184] Yes.

[2185] And then I would be honest and go like, I find it very flattering and I like the idea that she wants that.

[2186] Yes.

[2187] And she would say, that's mine.

[2188] Uh -huh.

[2189] That penis is mine.

[2190] Yeah.

[2191] And I'd go, okay.

[2192] Yeah.

[2193] Yeah.

[2194] But I would, I would own that I feel very flattered by that.

[2195] Of course.

[2196] I think a lot of people would.

[2197] Yeah.

[2198] I mean, I would if anyone wanted a mold of my post.

[2199] Oh my God.

[2200] I would love it.

[2201] Yes.

[2202] Yes.

[2203] Yeah, that'd be very, very flattering.

[2204] But the conversation I'm having now about all this with Kristen is like, now you're getting into this very, very interesting and dynamic spectrum of what is cheating.

[2205] Exactly.

[2206] Which is like never -endingly fascinating.

[2207] And there are so many things for some couples that would be just cheating.

[2208] Yeah.

[2209] That are not for others.

[2210] Right.

[2211] You know?

[2212] Oh, I mean, this is.

[2213] Everyone kind of gets to set their standard is for that.

[2214] This would be to a lot of people, this would be cheating.

[2215] Which is fun.

[2216] because it's not cheating the person's like never even touched the person they didn't witness any of the stuff now if it escalated to like now i'd like to show you a video of me using it now now we're getting now we're definitely we're inching closer and closer that's yeah i think most people still not cheating to me well to most people it would yeah i believe you're right that a lot of people would be but like if i walked in and christin was watching a video of a guy jacking off that he had sent her that on dm that she knows not yeah it wouldn't be cheating The fact that she watched it, she was curious and wanted to watch it.

[2217] I don't, for me, that doesn't constitute cheating.

[2218] Because, like, what's the difference between that and pornography?

[2219] So now we've drawn a line between you can watch pornography, but if you know one of the actors in the pornography, then that's an issue.

[2220] So that's just a very arbitrary and interesting line.

[2221] No, if you know them and you talk to them in life and you're around them in life, it's much different than a stranger.

[2222] Well, it's different than her just watching once?

[2223] Or what do you catch her, like, three weeks later?

[2224] Watching it and masturbating it?

[2225] Yeah.

[2226] Okay, great.

[2227] So this is what I'm suggesting.

[2228] So like, yeah, on the surface, you're like, oh, my God, she's jerking off to this dude that she knows.

[2229] But like, if I walk in and she's jerking off watching pornography, the physical reality is identical.

[2230] She's having a fantasy about other people to climax.

[2231] And so what I'm really saying is like, I don't mind her imagining being with these people sexually to climax by herself.

[2232] but I mind if she's watching someone she knows to climax.

[2233] Okay, so that seems like an obvious line.

[2234] Until you think, I don't think I have a right to tell her she's not allowed to masturbate in her head about people she knows.

[2235] Yeah, you don't.

[2236] You can't.

[2237] So all we've added is like a video component.

[2238] Like I'm fine with her masturbating to people she knows.

[2239] And then I'm fine with her masturbating to videos of it's pornography.

[2240] So weirdly, I don't think it's this clear cut.

[2241] But it is.

[2242] Well, it's not clear -cut.

[2243] Again, everyone's making their own rules for this, but it is crossing an emotional line.

[2244] If someone is sending a video that they made for the person.

[2245] Uh -huh.

[2246] And - But let's just say she's never sent anything back.

[2247] She's just consumed it.

[2248] Now, where it gets, now I think you add another layer, is like, I walk in and she's FaceTime masturbating with somebody, she knows.

[2249] Then that's like, time to chat.

[2250] Right?

[2251] Yeah, I mean, look, again, and we need to, you're an anomaly and most people are very uncomfortable.

[2252] Would be extremely uncomfortable.

[2253] And I'm not judgmental of those people.

[2254] I would ask them to not be judgmental of me back.

[2255] Yeah, you have your own opinion.

[2256] Yeah, I'm just not terribly threatened by that stuff.

[2257] Right.

[2258] I mean, but emotional shit mixed with physical shit.

[2259] That's, it's the, I think.

[2260] If it was Mike, sure.

[2261] No, I was just kidding.

[2262] I already said this on his episode, so I don't even feel bad saying it again.

[2263] Like, her and Mike Schur going to a book conference in Pennsylvania for two days, that's way more problematic to me than her masturbating watching a video.

[2264] Of him, that he sent her?

[2265] Because that means when they go anywhere together, like the chances of them really crossing the line are much higher.

[2266] But again, I'm threatened by Mike's philanthropic good nature.

[2267] the thing I can't compete with.

[2268] That's the thing that threatens me is what I can't compete with.

[2269] But don't you think part of why she would be masturbating to him?

[2270] It's because of the books.

[2271] It is.

[2272] It's because of his whole package.

[2273] It's not his sexuality.

[2274] That's, I think one thing, again, that's different off between men and women.

[2275] Women are not necessarily, which is why back to the original premise of this whole thing where I'm picking these penises, right?

[2276] But I'm thrilled you're actually excited about this because I could even see you saying like, well, I don't care about the penis.

[2277] That's where I thought you were gonna go at one point.

[2278] And I was like, I am sort of getting there now, unfortunately.

[2279] But like, that's, but that's, but that's, I get a hunch it was gonna go here.

[2280] That's the truth about women.

[2281] You're attracted to the whole.

[2282] I keep forgetting, I'm so sorry.

[2283] It's okay.

[2284] Every time you're making it up, I'm like, you're attracted to the whole piece and the personality and the connection and those things skyrocket the sexuality to a much different level.

[2285] Of course.

[2286] Although that's threat, that is threatening.

[2287] Although women do watch pornography in enormously high numbers.

[2288] Totally.

[2289] So.

[2290] But I think they're picturing.

[2291] They're projecting a personality onto them.

[2292] Like I don't think it's just.

[2293] That's probably true because I project onto them.

[2294] And in fact, this is, I've already talked about this too.

[2295] But again, if it's your first time, great.

[2296] This will be your first time.

[2297] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2298] That's welcome.

[2299] I hope you're enjoying it.

[2300] Not normally this pervy, but also it is sometimes as pervy.

[2301] When I'm looking through the options for pornography.

[2302] Even though you don't often look at porn.

[2303] I don't.

[2304] And I think I've been so honest this whole time.

[2305] I hope people will believe me. I think some people watch porn every day.

[2306] I watch porn like probably twice a month I'll watch porn.

[2307] Okay.

[2308] 24 times a year I'll do it.

[2309] Okay.

[2310] I forget it's even a thing.

[2311] Right.

[2312] When I do, and I'm scrolling through these pages, like, when I'm on high, look, like, I know from listening to Stern, guys are like, they like step sister porn or they like babysitter porn.

[2313] Right.

[2314] You know, they have a, they have a genre they like.

[2315] I like porn where I actually think the girl's super into it and getting off.

[2316] Right.

[2317] And I'm like, I'm scanning to try to evaluate whether I think this woman's enjoying it or not.

[2318] That's nice.

[2319] Because my projection is like giving tons of pleasure in being validated as being good and all that stuff.

[2320] Yeah.

[2321] But yes, so ultimately I'm projecting.

[2322] Yeah, we are, I guess.

[2323] I'm at least searching to find the thing.

[2324] I think that matches what I'm...

[2325] What you want in life.

[2326] So maybe like the women who have a personality type are like they're scanning through and that and that guy looks like a jock.

[2327] I don't like that.

[2328] This guy looks like that.

[2329] Yeah, probably.

[2330] Or I just think it's more a whole blown out fantasy version.

[2331] versus just sexual pleasure, like, yeah, the physicality of it.

[2332] There's more, there's more happening with women.

[2333] As we learned, responsive and or spontaneous arous arous arousal people.

[2334] Vanessa Marin.

[2335] Yeah, she's been getting, I mean, people love that episode.

[2336] It was a great episode.

[2337] It was a great episode.

[2338] You're your first time listening.

[2339] Go back and listen to that one.

[2340] Okay, well, I still haven't picked my penises.

[2341] Yeah, yeah, okay.

[2342] So we got, we have three of the five.

[2343] Yeah, we have three of the five.

[2344] I, I want Brad Pitt's.

[2345] Okay, great.

[2346] Yeah.

[2347] That's the kind, you know what's funny Is if you had this penis collection I can only imagine there'd be one When girlfriends came over You'd be like, you want to see Brad Pitt's penis You probably have it in a lusite box And like show people.

[2348] Yeah, maybe some lighting.

[2349] If we interview him, I'm going to ask him Not for you, but I'm going to ask him Has anyone asked you to make a mold of your penis?

[2350] And is it something you would do for somebody?

[2351] Okay.

[2352] Because that seems like a pretty good interview question.

[2353] I feel like maybe we shouldn't put this out there.

[2354] because then he was definitely not coming on.

[2355] Okay, and then, and obviously I'm not like, no one in my life is on my list.

[2356] Like, I'm intentionally like no one in my life is on my list.

[2357] Right, don't feel.

[2358] Like Charlie is not on the list.

[2359] Yeah, don't have your feelings hurt Ryan.

[2360] Yeah, exactly.

[2361] If you said Robb.

[2362] No, Rob's in my life.

[2363] He can't be on the list.

[2364] The looping guy?

[2365] I was just thinking about him.

[2366] You were considering him.

[2367] I was considering him.

[2368] We're Donald Glover.

[2369] I was considering him too.

[2370] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2371] I know.

[2372] Okay, here's the other problem.

[2373] Yes.

[2374] Just because they have the personality that you love.

[2375] Does it mean that's an ideal dildo?

[2376] Correct.

[2377] And like he's so sexy.

[2378] But his dick on its own is not so sexy.

[2379] It just is what it just is again.

[2380] Now we're back to.

[2381] Yeah.

[2382] That's why, that is why Ben and Matt's are so.

[2383] Premium.

[2384] Yeah.

[2385] Yeah, really.

[2386] Like, because I have so much emotional connection to those.

[2387] Yes.

[2388] Yeah, you'll hold it and you'll be like, oh, I'm holding his pants.

[2389] Wow.

[2390] Yeah, I'm getting excited just thinking about it.

[2391] Like, even Carmelo is not that.

[2392] Right.

[2393] That's more like I think you do, more visceral erotic.

[2394] You get excited because I've known.

[2395] Yeah.

[2396] The way your clothes exploded.

[2397] I'm only going to send out three emails.

[2398] Wow.

[2399] Well, wait.

[2400] So Donald, no. and Lupin, no. I think, no. And Brad Pitt, no. Oh, yeah, oh, four.

[2401] Four.

[2402] That's great.

[2403] You got 80%.

[2404] I'm gonna think about the fifth.

[2405] I want to pick someone weird for you.

[2406] I want you to do like a genius.

[2407] Why?

[2408] Because maybe there's something special about the three.

[2409] Oh, you just want to see what it looks like.

[2410] I think you could like dial into exactly what we're talking about with Ben and Matt.

[2411] Like if you had Einstein's penis.

[2412] Oh.

[2413] Oh, we can do ghosts.

[2414] But, no, but I use them as an example.

[2415] example of like someone that might be thrilling or um oh you know who i'd want to do if it was a ghost shakespeare's penis who's uh j f k junior right you'd love that yeah hold it hold it it's just like so waspy it's such a waspy dick the white is like the mold was one color but it comes out like translucent white oh my god or or oh i should never mind do it I was going to say, like, someone from high school who I wanted badly.

[2416] That's good.

[2417] And then I felt bad saying that because then it felt like a teenage dick, but they're adults now.

[2418] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2419] I think I would be, like, so mean to that one.

[2420] Oh, you would?

[2421] Yeah.

[2422] You slam it in the door.

[2423] Yeah, because it was, it didn't, yeah.

[2424] They never gave it to me. You would hate fuck that one.

[2425] Yes, exactly.

[2426] This is incredible.

[2427] It's incredible.

[2428] It is a, okay, look, it's a, it's a ding, ding, ding because this is for Bradley Cooper, a very coveted.

[2429] Where most people would want a copy of his day.

[2430] Yes.

[2431] And I ruled him out because it didn't feel appropriate for this.

[2432] Yeah, that's good.

[2433] That's smart.

[2434] Okay.

[2435] One of the facts is when Bradley says, and you said it to, but it's like him disliking his face.

[2436] Oh, uh -huh.

[2437] Which I believe him, right?

[2438] Like, he's not lying.

[2439] He's not, that's true.

[2440] But it's like a little bit.

[2441] It's like when like...

[2442] When Bezos feels broke?

[2443] No, but when models go on talk shows and say they were tomboys.

[2444] And you're a little like, oh, God.

[2445] Like, you can't...

[2446] I know what you're saying, but I think it's different because I think he's not pretending he was a dork in high school.

[2447] Some of these really hot...

[2448] Look, there was an Amy Schumer sketch about it.

[2449] It's a famous great one.

[2450] Yes.

[2451] It's a well -worn thing, like, I was, no guys like me, and I was a, I was like a gaming nerd.

[2452] That, I think is a lie.

[2453] But the problem, I don't think it's fair for us to say that.

[2454] I don't think it's fair.

[2455] But there was so many.

[2456] I know.

[2457] There was so many that there was a sketch about it.

[2458] So I definitely think, they, they know it's easy to hate someone as beautiful as them, and it just feels like less, you would hate them less if you found out that they were an awkward duckling for a while.

[2459] That's what we are saying, like, I don't know, I just, it gives me a little compassion for those women who we've now, like, made, we have, like made jokes about, like, oh, God, like they're saying they're a tomboy or that, yeah, they're ugly ducklings, but they probably were.

[2460] Sure, that's possible.

[2461] I think it's funny because when Bradley Cooper, who objectively, exactly, is, is saying he doesn't like the way he looks, it just is reminiscent to me of when a mom.

[2462] model goes on a talk show and says they were a tomboy.

[2463] So what's interesting, though, is like...

[2464] But I just think it's funny.

[2465] Oh, yeah.

[2466] I see your point.

[2467] I recognize your point.

[2468] I don't see it the same.

[2469] If Ashton was doing that, that to me would be identical to the models from CWD doing it.

[2470] There is a class of dudes.

[2471] If Josh Dumel was saying it and Ashton was saying it, and some of these other like pretty boy models were saying it, I think for me it would also file in to the category of the crazy hot actresses who have done it.

[2472] I think it's also hard.

[2473] You've been friends with him.

[2474] I've been friends with him for so long.

[2475] And you've been on the ride.

[2476] Yeah, yeah.

[2477] I think it might be hard for you to see.

[2478] I'm trapped in his lower status.

[2479] Yeah.

[2480] I think so.

[2481] I'm glad I am, I guess.

[2482] No, you should be.

[2483] Yeah, we met like trying to claw our way into that number seven on the call sheet of, you know, of wedding crassers.

[2484] So it's just different when people just, when he just, peers on the scene.

[2485] No, I think a lot coming down the escalator in the suit.

[2486] Yeah, and it's like, who is this person?

[2487] Yeah, powerful.

[2488] Powerful.

[2489] Powerful.

[2490] Now, I wonder if what he would admit, because I would like to hear it from him, and I've never even asked him, I'd like to know if he does acknowledge he has an animal magnetism.

[2491] Because I could see him not liking his face, but recognizing, yeah, somehow I do have a major power over girls.

[2492] I think he He has to know that.

[2493] Well, I don't think so based on what he was saying about Leonard and like his magnetism and his weapons.

[2494] Yeah.

[2495] He was saying it not like I can relate type of.

[2496] My take from that was that he doesn't recognize that he's him, that he also has all those weapons and does have a magnetism that people are just very drawn to.

[2497] Yeah.

[2498] Okay, so the catalyst suit, he talks about, that he works out it.

[2499] Mm, yes.

[2500] It's a catalyst with a K. Yes.

[2501] It has EMS technology.

[2502] Electromagnetic surge.

[2503] And yeah, you wear it.

[2504] It's FDA cleared for consumer use, custom suit sizing, machine washable textiles.

[2505] Oh, wow.

[2506] Unlike your donuts from the apple.

[2507] Well, they just arrived, by the way.

[2508] Oh, exciting.

[2509] I did my first meditation this morning with the new donuts on.

[2510] Exciting.

[2511] And you know, I decided to do is go two -tone.

[2512] So I have the green ones, but then I got the silvery white donuts.

[2513] And I like how it looks.

[2514] Nice.

[2515] I like that.

[2516] Yeah.

[2517] Cool.

[2518] Okay.

[2519] And I put the green ones in the dishwasher.

[2520] I'll let you know how it turns up.

[2521] Yuck.

[2522] We're sitting in there right now waiting to be blasted.

[2523] Wait, did you really?

[2524] Yeah.

[2525] Thanks.

[2526] What?

[2527] It's going to make everything so stinky in there.

[2528] In the dishwasher?

[2529] Yes.

[2530] Oh, I don't think so.

[2531] It's like a nuclear bomb goes off in those things.

[2532] Okay.

[2533] Okay.

[2534] Well, it says you can do a full body.

[2535] work out in 20 minutes with zero compromises.

[2536] Oh, wow.

[2537] Good, because I hate compromising.

[2538] Yeah.

[2539] So that's that.

[2540] Okay, the reality TV show that you wondered if he was talking about, but he wasn't, is called naked attraction.

[2541] That's the one where the penises are...

[2542] Everything gets exposed.

[2543] Right.

[2544] Okay, no, you know what's interesting.

[2545] I'm now going to join your side of the street a little bit.

[2546] Okay.

[2547] Which is, I watched an episode of that or something.

[2548] Uh -huh.

[2549] What I can relate to is, I haven't seen.

[2550] the person yet?

[2551] Oh, it's not remotely sexy.

[2552] No, like I see the vagina and I'm like, yeah, I just don't know what it's attached to.

[2553] I'm not willing yet to.

[2554] Interesting, yeah.

[2555] So you realize it is subjective and tied together to some degree.

[2556] It is.

[2557] Okay.

[2558] Why can kids be around dad's poop?

[2559] Did you get some info on this?

[2560] I asked Adam Grant.

[2561] Oh.

[2562] If he could help me, if he could point me in the right direction.

[2563] Okay.

[2564] He gave me...

[2565] This is two PG -13 for him.

[2566] Did he like immediately bristle?

[2567] I said, I'm sorry.

[2568] I said, I have a pretty disgusting fact to check.

[2569] Dax said his kids often come into the bathroom to tell him things while he's going to the bathroom and they don't seem to care about the smell.

[2570] Our guests had the same situation with their kid.

[2571] I wondered if there was some sort of evolutionary explanation for this.

[2572] Do you know anyone who could answer this?

[2573] I'm sorry to rope you into this very gross inquiry.

[2574] And then he responded with like this face.

[2575] Yeah, exactly.

[2576] Like a yikes, but also a laughing face.

[2577] Okay.

[2578] And then he gave me an email of someone at Yale.

[2579] So that's TBD.

[2580] I haven't.

[2581] Oh, okay, great.

[2582] So this is kind of going to be a multi -part exploration.

[2583] Also, when I just did this, it reminded me in Mr. and Mrs. Smith, she looks at, she does your thing.

[2584] Oh, I know.

[2585] I know.

[2586] She looks in the mirror and makes this horrifying face.

[2587] She does so many great things in that show.

[2588] Yeah.

[2589] She's so good.

[2590] She is.

[2591] I love when Mr. and Mrs. Smith gets into race stuff.

[2592] Yeah.

[2593] I love it.

[2594] Yeah.

[2595] You just don't see it.

[2596] Everyone's pretending that people talk different than they do.

[2597] He gets to tell that side of it, you know?

[2598] Yeah.

[2599] And she gets to tell the Asian side.

[2600] But I just refresh because like these are the real fucking conversations couples have about everybody.

[2601] Like no one's, no one's putting.

[2602] their best foot forward to appear good in public and not get canceled.

[2603] Right.

[2604] And you just don't see it on TV anymore.

[2605] And it's kind of maddening because I know what real life is about.

[2606] Couples talk about race.

[2607] They talk about everything.

[2608] Yeah.

[2609] Okay.

[2610] There's the five minutes of history of music, Leonard.

[2611] Oh, fuck.

[2612] I forgot to look that up.

[2613] Yeah.

[2614] I was going to play it, but this is going long.

[2615] Okay.

[2616] So check that out on your own time.

[2617] Okay.

[2618] If this is your first episode, we don't normally give homework, so I don't think this is standard.

[2619] But sometimes I do.

[2620] Probably one in.

[2621] as frequently as I watch pornography twice a month maybe you get homework okay oh he says Skadoosh when he's talking about his meditation pose and that's from Kung Fu Panda right that's it I want to say for the record I deeply deeply enjoyed this interview yeah Me too.

[2622] And it really stuck with me, and it really made some things click for me. And it's one of my favorite chats I've had with Bradley.

[2623] Well, it's just like stuff that then I brought into therapy to kind of discuss.

[2624] And I just like, like, he, you know, when I bring up all the stuff of like, it's hard for me to watch a guy that I'm on a spectrum of and these are my qualities.

[2625] I hate.

[2626] And to hear that he, like, he had no defensiveness against that.

[2627] He was very much like, oh, yeah, I have the same kind of thoughts.

[2628] And obviously he's been thinking about it for two years And I've been thinking about it for 36 hours And so kind of like once again his his synthesis of it Maybe his compassion he has for that person was just kind of I liked observing it I was great Yeah I thought it was it was nice you know Kup has a history I have to acknowledge of like every five years he kind of he has a little Pearl of wisdom I end up using a lot Yeah you know I never even finish finished my list.

[2629] It occurred to me after the end of the interview.

[2630] I said something like that you've taught me three really.

[2631] Yeah, yeah.

[2632] Actually, can you share because I can't remember the third, but the first one, right, was, was it about people talking bad about other people?

[2633] Yes.

[2634] Yeah.

[2635] So that one was really a light bulb moment.

[2636] The other was while in a relationship, not Kristen, him teaching me how to acknowledge what fear this situation is really bringing up.

[2637] Because I would say the whole fight, and he would say, wow, if a woman said that to me, I would be feeling very less than or I'd be feeling very this and that.

[2638] And I really couldn't think that way yet.

[2639] You know, that was 18 years ago or something.

[2640] I just couldn't.

[2641] I was so stuck on that.

[2642] That was a mean thing to say to me or that was objectively bitchy or cruel.

[2643] And I didn't then think, well, probably that same statement wouldn't affect someone else that had a different set of fears.

[2644] So why does that affect me?

[2645] Like adding the piece of like, why is that so impactful to me?

[2646] What fear do I have?

[2647] And then like him encouraging me to say to that person when you said X, it brought up this fear in me and I am very insecure about this.

[2648] And like that's the impact.

[2649] And that felt like if I were to have ever done that in front of a woman, she'd be so put off by me being weak and vulnerable that she'd be out there.

[2650] door, and it was always the opposite reaction.

[2651] And I did not think, that was like a paradigm shift for me. Yeah, wow.

[2652] That's great.

[2653] That's like the beginning of the whole vulnerability thing maybe.

[2654] Yeah.

[2655] It's changed your life.

[2656] And then I can't articulate the third thing.

[2657] I think I know what it is.

[2658] Tell me. I think I remember it.

[2659] It was you were saying, you were sharing something with him.

[2660] Mm -hmm.

[2661] And then he said, oh, that's why you don't like X. So and so, yes.

[2662] Because you're him, basically.

[2663] Yes.

[2664] That was just a really punch in the nose observation.

[2665] I already knew that.

[2666] Yeah.

[2667] But I was ignoring that I knew that because I wanted to be judgmental of this person.

[2668] Right.

[2669] I wanted to hold on to that, my moral, righteous indignation.

[2670] No, it was like, it was a different situation.

[2671] I remember it very well.

[2672] And it was basically pointing out, like, I felt slighted by somebody very public.

[2673] And then I was about to be in public.

[2674] and I was going to share that and I had this all mapped out of why it was fine and why this person deserved that and they shouldn't act in this way if they didn't want this known, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[2675] And he listened to this whole story and he's just like, you know, you could totally do that.

[2676] He's like, but I do think when you engage in negative, like, then everyone just engages with negative around you.

[2677] And you just start this whole swell of negativity.

[2678] It never ends anywhere.

[2679] positive.

[2680] Then maybe that person responds and they are now forced to be negative.

[2681] It's like as opposed to putting your energy into starting a project that's negative and will result in more negativity.

[2682] Why don't just ignore it and like talk about the things that are positive and productive?

[2683] And again, I'm not articulating that one so well, but in the throughout the course of this conversation we had, it occurred to me, yeah, I don't want to do that.

[2684] It's why I don't ever shit on movies in here or I shit on things like i think that's that came in 2012 me stopping shitting on things that's great yeah i have a theory that i don't think you'd like right which we've talked we've talked about it i think we talked about it last time he was on that i think i think he's one of the only people you what's the word really listen to like can hear uh -huh yeah he's in the tom hanson yeah there's like a very small amount of men, I guess.

[2685] Well, I'll say men.

[2686] That's what it is.

[2687] Because I think I actually don't have a hard time hearing women or learning from them.

[2688] Yeah, yeah.

[2689] I think that's right.

[2690] But yeah, I have a real issue with men.

[2691] And there's very few that I just blindly trust that they're telling me something they believe and not that they have an ulterior motive for me. I think you look up to him.

[2692] To Bradley?

[2693] I do think that.

[2694] I don't see you have that thing a lot with people.

[2695] You're right.

[2696] Yeah.

[2697] You're absolutely right.

[2698] It's funny.

[2699] I don't know why I would be hesitant to say I look up to him because I do.

[2700] I look up to parts of him.

[2701] I don't look up to him as an actor.

[2702] I don't look up to him.

[2703] No, I know.

[2704] So I guess I'm like nervous people would think.

[2705] But yeah, somehow Tom Hansen synthesizes things in a way that I can hear what he's saying and they penetrate my brain.

[2706] And Cooper, too, and I think, well, I can tell you what both guys share in common, which is they're, they're abnormally truthful about their character defects and their flaws.

[2707] And so I guess I just trust them a lot more.

[2708] Yeah, that's great.

[2709] And I think people who are like really not trying to hide that stuff about themselves, I can hear a lot better.

[2710] Yeah.

[2711] I also think it's kind of one of those, like, we don't always know why.

[2712] We don't always know why there are people in our lives who we just like there's something about them that we want to be or like or like it has nothing to do with how much you like or love a person.

[2713] Yeah, definitely Hansen and Jimmy are like dad figures for me. Yeah.

[2714] And Cooper's a brother figure for me. Right.

[2715] Right.

[2716] That's why maybe I'm like not like I can't go straight look up.

[2717] But that's, I don't know why because I look up to my brother.

[2718] I looked up to him growing up.

[2719] Yeah.

[2720] So yeah, I definitely look up to Cooper.

[2721] That's my conclusion.

[2722] I think you're right.

[2723] Yeah, I think it's nice.

[2724] It's good to have people to look up to.

[2725] Yeah.

[2726] It's an act of humility in a sense.

[2727] It is.

[2728] Which is why I'm struggling so hard right now.

[2729] I know.

[2730] I know.

[2731] I know.

[2732] Yeah, I don't think you want to be in a position where like a pat on the back from nobody would feel special.

[2733] Yeah.

[2734] Okay, well, this was fun.

[2735] Yeah, so much fun.

[2736] And welcome for those first time listeners.

[2737] We love having you.

[2738] Hope you'll stick around and give us another shot.

[2739] Love you.

[2740] Bye, love you.

[2741] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2742] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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