Josh Gad

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard, and I'm joined by Dan Rather.

[2] I wish.

[3] Oh, don't we all?

[4] Wouldn't it be great?

[5] Oh, what an esteemed colleague.

[6] I'm calling him a colleague.

[7] Boy, do we have a fun, rambunctious party time episode today?

[8] So fun.

[9] And thoughtful.

[10] And also a mix of thoughtfulness.

[11] Josh Gat, boy, oh boy, what a talented MFER, right?

[12] He really is special.

[13] Can sing like a freight train, an endlessly funny, improv.

[14] genius, likable, lovable.

[15] He's a Grammy award winner for Best Musical with the Book of Mormon.

[16] Also, little film called Frozen and Frozen 2, Beauty and the Beast.

[17] He's got a hysterical new show that we watched Avenue 5 on HBO.

[18] Every Sunday, there's a new episode.

[19] He plays an insane person, and he does it so well, doesn't he?

[20] It's so funny.

[21] And guess what?

[22] Last episode, we tickled your eardrums, and now we're going to tickle your taste buds, a little clip from Monica and just love boys.

[23] Our guest this week was with our mother.

[24] Yeah, you had your mother.

[25] Yes.

[26] So let's take a little listen to that before we kick into the incredibly hysterical Josh Gad.

[27] I have a friend from a mom from preschool who just went out with her recently divorced mom friend.

[28] And she was sitting at dinner and the recently divorced mom friend said, give me one second.

[29] and I'll be right back and went into the bathroom at the restaurant and then came back to the table and said, I sometimes flirt with this bartender and I often leave my underwear in there for him.

[30] What?

[31] But hold on.

[32] Oh, my God.

[33] He loves it.

[34] She loves it.

[35] They both feel sexy.

[36] This mom is like divorced and ready to mingle.

[37] And she was feeling herself and I was like, fuck yes.

[38] If you want to leave your panties for someone.

[39] then go for it.

[40] And I would like to see you open yourself up a little bit more like that.

[41] Like, have you ever left your panties for someone to find?

[42] Just because you know it's like a treat.

[43] It's like sometimes like leaving a $10 bill on the ground knowing you're going to make someone's day.

[44] That's fun.

[45] And I can see that, but you have to get there.

[46] The problem is for me is even getting to the point.

[47] What would happen if you just left him there?

[48] What if what happened if you went to it?

[49] You can't get arrested, first of all, then everyone at Home Depot would be arrested, okay?

[50] Because people shit their pants all the time in Home Depot.

[51] I know it.

[52] Dax comes out of the Home Depot bathroom having shit his pants and says there's so many underwear in the Home Depot bedroom garbage can.

[53] So it's not an arrestable offense, I can confirm.

[54] Oh, boy.

[55] Well, I guess I really take it on the chin there.

[56] Some amount's a dating show.

[57] and she comes up that I had an accident.

[58] Well, you have told all of the armchairs about it many a time.

[59] That's true.

[60] Okay, well, I am so excited for Monica and Just Love Boys.

[61] And I'm also excited for Josh Gads.

[62] So please enjoy.

[63] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[64] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[65] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[66] How about Kumal's body?

[67] Oh my god.

[68] Can we just talk about that?

[69] It looks superimposed.

[70] No. What?

[71] Look at the face!

[72] Look at his arms!

[73] It kind of looks like Wolverine.

[74] Right?

[75] Yes, yes, yes.

[76] I got to tell you, I'm very envious.

[77] Oh, yeah.

[78] Just to be able to like time.

[79] That's what I...

[80] Like, don't you feel like Marvel should just start opening up gyms?

[81] Wow.

[82] Well, no. He...

[83] You know, when he came on here, he was just starting this process.

[84] Kumal, how are you doing?

[85] So many veins.

[86] The veins are.

[87] He's a nurse's wet.

[88] No, are you not into the veins?

[89] I'm not into the veins.

[90] Wait, wait, those veins are veins or veins in general?

[91] Like, are you okay with my varicose?

[92] Oh, of course.

[93] Of course.

[94] That's very natural.

[95] And your vast deference.

[96] And my vast deference.

[97] Are you okay with Gad's vast deference?

[98] I'm so, so on his vast deference.

[99] You're on the fence about his vast deference.

[100] A lot of people, including my.

[101] My own wife are very lukewarm on my vest deference.

[102] Well, can I say it's, what it really is is a polarizing vast deference because I love it.

[103] You love it.

[104] I'm obsessed with it as some group are.

[105] It's either people really love your best deference or they hate it.

[106] They're very controversial.

[107] And wouldn't you prefer that?

[108] I don't want anyone ambivalent.

[109] No, I don't want people to look at my vest deference and not have an opinion.

[110] Like I want them to be emotionally challenged by all of my veins.

[111] Yeah.

[112] I was told this morning I did a physical.

[113] and I was told this morning that she couldn't find my vein.

[114] Oh, I hate that.

[115] Is that a common thing?

[116] I guess in my body type yes.

[117] And does that mean multiple stabbings?

[118] It meant multiple stabbings, and I didn't appreciate that.

[119] Oh, man. Because at a certain point, they're just drawing blood from underskin.

[120] Ooh.

[121] From just topical blood.

[122] Just topical blood.

[123] Have you ever had the thing where they can't find it so they go to the top of your hand?

[124] No, because I happen to have one garden hose.

[125] Right.

[126] I tend to be a nurse's wet dream as well.

[127] Yeah, like Camel.

[128] Not going to have any issues.

[129] No, Camel is definitely not going to have any issues.

[130] He's been specifically working out his veins.

[131] Well, he needs to avoid any sharp corners or anything because he could just start spurting blood.

[132] Isn't it funny?

[133] We've talked about this on here a ton.

[134] You and I love that, right?

[135] We love it.

[136] We would love to have huge vanie hammers.

[137] I just want, I want Kumal's body.

[138] I don't want to work for it, though.

[139] That's the problem.

[140] Well, hey, look, look, by the way, he looks.

[141] phenomenal and I'm proud of him because when he came on this show he was just starting this process and he was talking about all he literally was like week four commitment yes so then like now that I've done the show I could have his body that's what I mean that's exactly I just have the start of my process generally the trainers say step one going armchair expert yep and openly express your goals because now you're accountable to a million folks I I want Humal's body that's my goal the next time we see you.

[142] I will look.

[143] Or we won't see you again.

[144] No. So those are the stakes just so you're clear.

[145] Yeah.

[146] Somebody else will be sitting here and going, have you guys seen Josh's thirsty?

[147] Oh.

[148] Yeah.

[149] Anybody else thirsty for some of that Josh Gad body?

[150] I can't wait to have that conversation.

[151] I can't wait for you.

[152] I'm going to say, I heard his physical went great this year that they got blood in second.

[153] And then it just pumped out all over the walls and the floor.

[154] Oh my God.

[155] I'm really excited about that.

[156] But sincere question about your physical knowing that you had the physical you have to fast and isn't it what part of it is hardest for you because i have a specific thing i think the hardest part is not eating food in general in life oh okay it's hard no mine's coffee like you wake up to go to that physical and i can't have nicotine or coffee no no you can't have coffee not my guy well then i one of us is going to the wrong doctor if you're supposed to not eat food why would you my my doctor specifically said You can have caffeine and you can have water.

[157] Anything else is a no -go.

[158] So, like, we need, do you get call -ins?

[159] That's not how podcasts work, is it?

[160] Some do.

[161] Some have it.

[162] We would like to.

[163] We tried it.

[164] Should I call someone?

[165] Why don't you go outside?

[166] Call me. I'll answer.

[167] We'll do this.

[168] What do you think?

[169] What's your stance on caffeine?

[170] But you can't drink a cold brew in the morning.

[171] I can do anything I want to do.

[172] It's my body, my right.

[173] Well, clearly you can.

[174] My body, my choice.

[175] That's right.

[176] You have the constitutional.

[177] protection to choose however you'd like but really would you have a cold brew in the morning yes you would people do yes why it's like a vampire move or something why wouldn't i just because of the ritual of having this warm beverage i don't know it's historic you know it's funny it is it's historic i think when i was when i was on broadway i did broadway oh you did it's a new york thing oh and when i did this Broadway thing you um it's a very comfortable couch by the way isn't it's a So much has happened on that.

[178] I feel like this is going to be in the Smithsonian.

[179] Talk about historic.

[180] This is historic.

[181] That's right.

[182] So when I was on this thing called Broadway, which is live performance, the only way that I could get through a show without being exhausted was Cold Brew.

[183] Cold Brew.

[184] Well, let's just say that that show, which I am aware of, Book of Mormon, an exhausting show.

[185] An exhausting.

[186] Right?

[187] It's the hardest thing to do on Broadway is a musical, correct?

[188] I think so.

[189] No, I mean just like if you measured someone's metabolic output.

[190] Oh, correct, correct.

[191] The dancing, the singing.

[192] My voice teacher once, I have a voice teacher, as one does.

[193] Is it Oscar the Grouch?

[194] No, does it sound like I was trained by Oscar the Grouch?

[195] Is that the vibe I'm giving up?

[196] Isn't that your, isn't that what you're known for?

[197] Sing from your diaphragm, Josh.

[198] Cookie, cookie, cookie.

[199] I feel like that's definitely not Oscar.

[200] No, now I'm being cookie monster.

[201] You're being cookie monster.

[202] I was like, you haven't watched Sesame Street, have you?

[203] No, Oscar doesn't say anything about cookies.

[204] No, no, but Cookie Monster comes in often with a request.

[205] There are all just variations of like smokers at a certain point.

[206] Or people that are so inebriated at a bar that they're like down to just the basic desire of a cookie.

[207] Or garbage.

[208] Fucky.

[209] Or yeah.

[210] Oh, hockey, fucky.

[211] Oh, that sounds like.

[212] fuck no you know what scary is where f is for fuck so back to your voice your voice teacher so back to my voice teacher she said something and I think it's true is that the the hardest part of doing a Broadway musical is staying well enough to do a Broadway musical right like especially in Book of Mormon you go out till fucking two o 'clock in the morning every night because everybody's coming to see it everybody wants to say hi after it's such a good time show and then and then you have all this adrenaline after you do the show so you're out late at night yeah you're drinking you can't you can't do this you can't do that you got to stay like completely were you ever a smoker are you a smoker i'm an occasional smoker like when you're drunk you'll step outside yes a hundred percent i've been very lucky that i've never become addicted do you in general have an addictive personality or no look at my waist size what do what do you think well i don't know i have no i have no conclusion oh i'm addicted to food okay i'm addicted to carbohydrates.

[213] Yeah, they're so delicious.

[214] They're so delicious.

[215] They're so satisfying.

[216] They're so satisfying.

[217] They're so satisfying.

[218] They hit the spot.

[219] They're satisfying, but then you, they aren't because you just want more and more and more and more and more.

[220] You do, but like, don't you feel, I just want to get comfortable?

[221] Don't you feel that?

[222] Josh really has my number.

[223] Do you know that about Josh?

[224] I can tell.

[225] I have a real hard time not laughing around him.

[226] That's not true.

[227] No, it's true.

[228] You sent me the loveliest Marco Poella.

[229] Oh, about your, um, I mean, you couldn't, you were on Kimmel with 35 people to promote frozen.

[230] In the back.

[231] In the fucking, in the nosebleeds.

[232] Yeah.

[233] Pieces of shit to me. Already my ego would have been real sensitive.

[234] Oh, I was so bruised.

[235] I was so bruised.

[236] I really only saw like the stage manager's view of Jimmy Kimmel.

[237] Like I didn't even get like a good front angle.

[238] Wait, you're talking about when you guys went on to promote frozen.

[239] Yes.

[240] There was five of the U -4.

[241] Yes.

[242] The front was the money shot.

[243] Sure.

[244] And then they tried to put me as far out of the public view as possible while still having me accountable.

[245] And now the needle that Josh had to thread of not seeming too thirsty and bruised.

[246] Both of which were.

[247] Happened.

[248] Completely happening.

[249] Yeah.

[250] Full -blown bruised and thirsty.

[251] And yet only popped in at the perfect, perfect time every time he did it, it was a 10.

[252] and then he didn't get greedy.

[253] Every single ad was a 10.

[254] It leveled everyone.

[255] And then he just hung back for a second.

[256] And it's very consistent with, because really you and I only know each other through going to Frozen Function.

[257] That's it.

[258] Once every six years we see each other.

[259] So I guess we've seen each other twice.

[260] We've only ever met three times.

[261] But you and I have the same role in life generally, which is we're the jester.

[262] And it's our job to kind of make light of how awkward just life is.

[263] It's 100 % accurate.

[264] And what I love is I was old enough when I met you that I didn't get competitive with you.

[265] Because I could have seen how much.

[266] We go after very different roles, you and I would imagine.

[267] But just a general attention at a big dinner.

[268] I wish I was a Dak Shepard.

[269] Oh, Josh Gatt.

[270] I wish I could sing like you and create like you, so it's very mutual.

[271] It's fun to just be at a dinner party with you or just be somewhere with you.

[272] And I was like, what a service you provide.

[273] And it's not on my shoulders.

[274] You do.

[275] You do.

[276] Because there's so much, like you guys are so regularly on a stage with some huge executive.

[277] And that guy, like, stammeres through some speech.

[278] And he, you know, and it's just, it's so ripe for someone to cut the seriousness of it.

[279] You and I both have a similar sensibility, too, about that stuff where we don't take any of it seriously.

[280] Yes, we're kind of, what's the word for it?

[281] It's like there's a gentle apathy or something.

[282] Yes, yes.

[283] Or some kind of.

[284] I don't speak French.

[285] Is that why?

[286] Wad de Vive.

[287] No, Wad DeVive is a different thing completely.

[288] I don't know what that is at all.

[289] I just really wanted to say Wad de Vive.

[290] What does it mean?

[291] That feels sexual.

[292] Isn't that like prowess?

[293] No, that's like that he has a certain Wad de Vive, which means.

[294] A swagger.

[295] No, it just means Wad de Veev.

[296] Oh, literally.

[297] There's no translation.

[298] It's just a Wad de Vee.

[299] It's just a sound.

[300] Yeah, it's just sounds.

[301] It's just like, oh, he's got a woppa.

[302] It's on Manopoeia, but there's no. There's no translation.

[303] It's just French sounds.

[304] It's basically, like, he's got a whoo -woo.

[305] Yeah, that guy's got sound.

[306] It's French for borr -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h.

[307] You really are an armchair expert in everything.

[308] Yeah, I like to think so.

[309] But anyways.

[310] Wait back to carbohydrates.

[311] We really went.

[312] Sorry, right, right, right, right.

[313] How about them carbs?

[314] Speaking of carbs, how do you start your days?

[315] Generally, a matcha tea.

[316] Okay, yeah.

[317] that I'm making the little dish.

[318] Are you guys non -breakfast types?

[319] Kind of.

[320] I have to make myself eat breakfast.

[321] Oh, man. I don't want to.

[322] You love breakfast?

[323] Breakfast is it for me. Oh, that's your meal.

[324] Breakfast is, well, no, that's one of many meals.

[325] Okay.

[326] Breakfast just starts the meal's ceremony.

[327] And then I just basically, the rest of the day is a continuation of breakfast.

[328] And what do you like?

[329] It's just literally, like, my general meal plan day is basically like the nine Star Wars films.

[330] This is just a marathon of food.

[331] But is it true?

[332] Funneled into my mouth.

[333] If you are addictive by nature in it, and I certainly have, um, relate to addiction, don't you find, like when I would wake up and take three Vicodin and a coffee, beautiful little buzz.

[334] And then the rest of the day is just maintenance.

[335] And it doesn't really ever reach that.

[336] And it's actually diminishing throughout the day.

[337] And I feel like the carb cycle is kind of that way.

[338] It's like the first big thing is awesome.

[339] And then it's like a dip of low energy.

[340] And then you've got to pick it back up with another meal and then another dip.

[341] That's exactly how it goes.

[342] If I had a Kumal body and I think that's what we have to start calling it's a great body.

[343] A K -Bod?

[344] If I had a K -Bod, I would start every day with a bacon, egg, and cheese on an everything bagel.

[345] That would be the start, okay?

[346] I love everything bagels.

[347] They're perfect.

[348] They are the single greatest invention outside of the television.

[349] And then, and the podcast, obviously, then I would have probably as a snack, I would do.

[350] Like this is just, again, K -Bod, like if we're just going off of K -Bod.

[351] Right.

[352] I would have just like a slice of pizza, like, you know, pepperoni or cheese.

[353] To wrap up breakfast?

[354] Yeah, to just hold me over.

[355] It's a book end.

[356] Yeah.

[357] Like, just a little holdover.

[358] until lunch.

[359] Just tying up the loose ends.

[360] We're talking about 11 a .m. Right, right.

[361] Thin or thick crust?

[362] Chicago crust.

[363] Oh, no, no, no. New York style.

[364] Okay.

[365] Like a good, with New York water.

[366] None of that fake water.

[367] Okay.

[368] And just to bring everyone up to speed who doesn't live in L .A. and it isn't barraged by New Yorkers telling us how much better they are than us all the time.

[369] Right.

[370] To which I always reply, we love New York like you can't imagine.

[371] Yeah.

[372] There's no competition.

[373] There's no competition.

[374] We love it.

[375] We love going there.

[376] Yeah.

[377] We think it's a great place.

[378] But in the litany of reasons that it's better is that their city water is much better than ours, which I think it is.

[379] That's objectively true.

[380] And that that in turn makes the bagels taste better and the pizza taste better.

[381] Now there are some places that claim to have brought in the water treatment filtration system that creates the New York.

[382] I don't.

[383] It's such a huge system, the water treatment system of New York.

[384] I can't imagine that you can pint size it and put it in the back of a pizza shop here.

[385] No, it just doesn't, it doesn't, quite add up to me. Wait, lunch would be Yeah, what's for lunch?

[386] Probably like General Sal's chicken.

[387] Just like a good, healthy salty dose of MSG on a plate.

[388] I like all the things you're saying there.

[389] Me too.

[390] Yeah.

[391] Then like would have like a little like tea time, you know, just bunch of...

[392] Yeah, bowl pasta.

[393] Yeah.

[394] Bole pasta.

[395] And then I would go out the day light with just a plate of sushi.

[396] Oh.

[397] You can eat sushi.

[398] Oh, yeah.

[399] And then the cycle.

[400] And telling yourself, oh, I'm going to have a clean dinner sushi and then get to the all you can eat bar and really focus on the temporal.

[401] Oh, no, all of it would be temporal.

[402] Yes, but on the right there.

[403] This is the lightest meal I've had today.

[404] And the right there, you'd be convinced you're just eating sushi.

[405] Yeah.

[406] And then I would end the day with the same mantra, which is, thank God, I'm Kumau.

[407] Oh, God.

[408] And that would be it.

[409] That would be a perfect day.

[410] A perfect day.

[411] But there's no dessert in there.

[412] You don't, you're not a sweet sky.

[413] I'm a savory.

[414] I like now I like some like a good cookies and cream ice cream Oh yeah to wash down all those To cleanse the palate To cleanse the palate I too am savory I much easier give up sugar than salty stuff Then you and I must share this in coming Because can I just say one thing I am the lightest shepherd in shepherd history by about 80 pounds Really?

[415] Yeah so I am designed You've always been physically fit though Yes and I think opposition to being my father Like a dedication to be opposite of my father But so I've been on diet since I was 20 years old.

[416] My first diet was 20.

[417] Were you ever overweight?

[418] Well, here's what happened.

[419] I graduated high school at 180.

[420] I went on the road doing car shows and I worked for GM and we had an expense account for food.

[421] Oh.

[422] And my best friend Aaron and I just ate at every fast food restaurant about five times a day.

[423] And we ate as much as we could consume because it was free.

[424] And within a year and a half after graduating high school, we were in Atlanta doing a car show.

[425] I got on a scale and I was 217.

[426] So I had gained 40 pounds.

[427] in a year and a half.

[428] And I was like, oh, I see, this is, I'm becoming my father, this is over.

[429] And then I went fat -free for an entire year and lost 40 pounds.

[430] Fat -free.

[431] Fat -free, because that was the rage in 1994.

[432] I remember that, right.

[433] And so.

[434] Was that like the Atkins sort of?

[435] It wasn't Atkins yet, it was fat -free.

[436] So opposite.

[437] Atkins is like, you can have as much fat and get into ketosis.

[438] So I did that for a year, lost a bunch of weight.

[439] Then over the next few years, put on some more weight again, got up to like 220 or something.

[440] then did Atkins with my ex -girlfriend for a year lost the weight again.

[441] So I've yo -yoed a ton.

[442] Well, you look great.

[443] Well, thank you.

[444] But I was going to say the movie that most appeals to me is defending your life, which you must have seen.

[445] Oh, God.

[446] It doesn't matter how many times I see this piece of perfection by Albert Brooks.

[447] The Past Lives Pavilion Sequence, in particular, with the sumo wrestlers, is one of the funniest bits of comedy I've ever seen in my life.

[448] And one of the conceits of the film is it's a waiting room to decide whether you're going to heaven or how.

[449] And during that period, you can't gain weight.

[450] And there's a bunch of great restaurants.

[451] So everyone's eating as much as they're hot.

[452] It's such a brilliant.

[453] It's such a brilliant movie.

[454] It is.

[455] I still have that fantasy of like, God, what would a day be like where I literally didn't think about it?

[456] Because even when I did idiocracy, I was like, I got to gain weight really quick.

[457] It was written as a really heavy guy.

[458] And I wasn't at the time.

[459] And so I gained like 40 pounds.

[460] that movie how do you feel about that movie becoming a documentary i love it i love it's it's to have appeared in a documentary feels prestigious like i i was not on broadway like you so i'm looking for cachet any any hovel i can find it but um even while i was gaining it for idiocacy which i thought oh this will be great because i have the goal of actually gaining weight i still every time i ate the shit i was like and i'll have to lose this right it was never defending your life in the way i wanted it to be.

[461] You just described a year in Christian Bale's life.

[462] Oh my God.

[463] Literally every year.

[464] I can't believe he does it.

[465] Every year.

[466] But he says he claims he's done.

[467] I don't buy it.

[468] If he got some role that required, he would do it.

[469] There's no way he wanted it.

[470] He did a whole interview and interviews are that's permanent.

[471] That's permanent.

[472] You can't take that back.

[473] Once you commit to doing an interview, then that's it.

[474] I'm going to do a really good Christian Bell impression.

[475] I'm not going to gain weight anymore for my I'm done with that what do you think I actually I think it's great but I don't know his real voice enough neither do I he's kind of I was half like Australian he's good well he has a hodgepodge accent but it's kind of no but it's more it's more like it's kind of I think it was more like cock yeah it's a little more cock yeah we'll fucking hate this job yeah I'm uncle I'm dumb being fat for the rest of my life or fucking hate this job I'm fucking hate this job I'm doing this I don't pick to be the fucking best at this I fucking hate this job I just am the fucking best It's like sitting opposite Christian bail From Empire of the Sun right now So Monica It is no shock That Josh Gad is successful In Hollywood Because he was born in Hollywood He's from Hollywood Florida His father is an Afghani Jew And mom's a German Jew Ashkanazi Well Ashkenazi You said that Almost anti -Syssalis Semetically, like, just really, like, just butchered it.

[476] Let me try it anti -semitically.

[477] That's more...

[478] That's more...

[479] That's really...

[480] Yeah.

[481] I got goosebumps.

[482] I got bad goosebumps.

[483] Yeah, that was a great.

[484] I got scary goosebumps.

[485] I got scary goosebumps when you did that.

[486] But, uh, yeah, my, uh, I'm a mutt.

[487] But that is a very improbable pairing.

[488] It's very improbable.

[489] He left when he was about 13.

[490] Oh, okay.

[491] It wasn't even like a...

[492] a voluntary leave.

[493] It was like, oh, we just realized we don't want your people.

[494] You're not safe here.

[495] Yeah, you should leave.

[496] What year was that?

[497] This was like in the 50s.

[498] This was in the 50s.

[499] Okay.

[500] My parents got divorced when I was six years old and I don't really talk to my dad much anymore.

[501] Not because he's Afghani.

[502] Just because he cheated on my mom and that really upset me. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[503] What's up guys?

[504] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[505] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[506] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[507] And I don't mean just friends.

[508] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[509] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[510] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[511] We've all been there.

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[521] But let me ask you a question.

[522] Yeah.

[523] So I have a ton of father issues.

[524] Right.

[525] So do I?

[526] Yeah.

[527] And my dad died.

[528] I got this amazing window the last four months he was live.

[529] I was in a position to be able to go back and forth to to Michigan and deal with all this cancer stuff.

[530] It was enormously cathartic.

[531] And then coupled with then having our first kid right after became a pathway to a ton of forgiveness and understanding.

[532] Are you anywhere close or nearing that?

[533] If anything.

[534] It's made it worse.

[535] Yes.

[536] Here's the thing is like I have an amazing stepfather.

[537] I have an amazing stepfather.

[538] The stepfather.

[539] The stepfather, Stan.

[540] So my stepdad really was present.

[541] I love my dad, my biological dad.

[542] He just was kind of a crummy father.

[543] Sure, sure.

[544] And like a terrible husband.

[545] And that's okay.

[546] And he wasn't crazy young.

[547] What was he like 28 or something when he had you guys?

[548] Yeah, I mean, well, I have an older brother.

[549] I have a, my oldest brother Jason's 10 years older.

[550] My middle brother is 8 years older and I was supposed to be Jenny.

[551] Okay.

[552] I was going to be the girl.

[553] That didn't work out.

[554] So then if your brother is 10 years older, then your dad was about 19 or 20 when he had your brother.

[555] early 20s yeah okay so the two things that i go to now is i'm like oh my god my dad was 18 when he had my brother and he was 23 when he had me i was 38 and 40 right such a different stage of life right i would have been a horrendous father in my 20s i was a horrendous steward of my own body right now the thing that switched for me when i had when we had lincoln was did he pass before you had lincoln there is a picture of him holding christin's belly in the hospital bed she's about eight months pregnant and yeah he's rubbing her belly it's a really sweet picture but when we had lincoln all of a sudden it clicked like oh i wasn't the victim in that he was the victim if i had to choose whether i missed my child's life or missed my dad's life i would way choose to miss the parent to not have a parent around then to have now met lincoln and not watched her do all the things she did right is heartbreaking i really feel very sad for him and i'm like it's worse that's a tragedy yeah It is a tragedy.

[556] And, you know, I think, like, I have very little in common with my dad.

[557] But the one thing that I will say is, is I think there's a part of him that probably does look back and regret missing out.

[558] Because by virtue of missing out on so much, he's now missing out on everything that followed.

[559] Right.

[560] Because I just don't have the relationship with him that I wish I did.

[561] Yeah, you don't have the foundation.

[562] I don't have the foundation.

[563] But I think it sounds like it's coupled with the same.

[564] same thing I had, which is I also adore my fucking mother.

[565] So in my story, my mother was the hero.

[566] And the dad had to be the antagonist.

[567] My mom is a superhero.

[568] I mean, a single mom raised three boys who all ended up being successful with amazing families.

[569] And that is a very hard needle to thread.

[570] And we all could have been very fucked up.

[571] Like, it was just, you know, it was probably more likely that that would have been the case than not.

[572] But she, just, she was like, I am going to make sure that you guys got an education.

[573] I'm going to make sure that you have a roof over your heads and I'm going to make sure that I do whatever I need to do in order to keep you safe and in order to make sure that you have an opportunity to live out your dreams and your best life.

[574] I'll show you.

[575] I actually just took a picture.

[576] Your podcast viewers can't see this because that's not how podcasts were.

[577] Well, I'll describe it in great detail.

[578] I'll show you.

[579] I just went home to Florida for my 20th high school reunion and I took this.

[580] I was going going through photo albums.

[581] It was like, holy shit, my mom was gorgeous.

[582] My mom still is beautiful, but it was like a gorgeous woman.

[583] A real piece.

[584] She was a real, watch your fucking mouth.

[585] But look at this, look at this.

[586] She's crazy cute.

[587] Isn't she gorgeous?

[588] Yeah, yeah, get in there.

[589] She really, really is.

[590] She actually looks a lot like my oldest daughter, she looks like that actress.

[591] She cut her hair really short eventually.

[592] So cute, she's so cute.

[593] She is, yeah.

[594] Oh, oh, was she on Big Love maybe?

[595] Julie Andrews.

[596] Oh, no, I know who you're talking about.

[597] Jenny, Jennifer Goodwin.

[598] Jennifer Goodwin.

[599] Oh, she looks a little like Jenny Goodwin.

[600] Big time, big time, big time.

[601] Yes.

[602] No, she was beautiful.

[603] But again, as you get older, right, and you get a little more aware of the power of storytelling in your head or the story you're creating about your life, and you realize like, oh, I did slap some people into some archetypes, good guy, bad guy, good woman, bad, you know, and maybe it wasn't entirely far.

[604] No, and like, that's the thing is my mom, rightfully so, hated my dad.

[605] after they got divorced and me being the youngest, I was the recipient of all of that animosity and anger.

[606] And so I fucking like absorb that and was like, yeah, he said, that guy really is a piece of shit.

[607] Oh, mama, can I be your friend?

[608] I need love.

[609] Can I be your husband?

[610] Can I be your spiritual partner, mama?

[611] Not in a game of Thrones way.

[612] I need love.

[613] Just in a plutonic marriage way.

[614] but I really did absorb a lot of that and there were you know not to sound cliche or not to sound like fucking needy but there were a lot of nights where I would wait at the window for a man who is never going to come sure sure sure yeah and I have vivid memories of that like my dad would be like I'm coming to see you he lived in Columbia which is where he worked which is a whole other podcast we should do one time but you know he would say I'm coming home to visit you I'm coming home to see you and I would wait anxiously because I loved him so much.

[615] I looked up to him and I wanted to be with him.

[616] And then I'd get the call at like 11 .30 at night.

[617] Oh, I didn't make my flight.

[618] And that takes a toll.

[619] Oh, yeah.

[620] But it also creates some resolve.

[621] And I think in a lot of ways, I don't think I'd be sitting on this couch today without a...

[622] Yeah, my mom's story that she kind of...

[623] My mother was really, really generous about not shit talking my dad.

[624] Even though she had a lot of...

[625] He never paid child support, didn't do anything.

[626] She had dressed my brother and I up on Easter.

[627] He had us for Easter.

[628] She dressed us up in matching sailor outfits.

[629] I had had chicken pox the week before.

[630] I'd gotten over it.

[631] And my father's girlfriend of like six weeks, her daughter hadn't had chicken pox yet.

[632] And she was too nervous to have me around.

[633] So he called and canceled and didn't pick us up.

[634] And my mom took a picture of us and mailed it to him.

[635] So this is what you missed.

[636] And she still has a picture.

[637] And that's one of her ones where she's like, no, I can't overlook this.

[638] like your girlfriend of six weeks kid hasn't had chicken pox yet yeah no it's that shit adds up that shit adds up but great fuel but you said something earlier and I and a bunch of my friends and I who all grew up without great father figures all sort of similarly found the same thing which is made us better dads like it made everything that I learned I used to make sure it would never happen again committing to being the opposite of somebody can be really effective.

[639] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[640] And for me, like, that was the greatest lesson is just like, okay, this is how I felt as a child growing up in a household where my parents just clearly were not men for each other.

[641] Yeah.

[642] And seeing my father start a new family was so incredibly.

[643] Oh, he did that.

[644] He did that while they were married.

[645] Oh.

[646] my goodness like one of those cases like a hidden family in fact i remember meeting my half brother was like six and a half seven and my dad's like i want to introduce you to somebody and took me to a hotel and was like hey what do you think i'm like who's this boy how old was he he's like two oh my goodness okay it was pretty traumatic i was nervous he was going to be like a year older Yeah, like that would have been a real.

[647] But it all happened while he was still married.

[648] Did he have an occupation that lent itself to having a secret life?

[649] Like was he on the road selling stuff?

[650] He was on the road.

[651] He was in emeralds.

[652] No shit, Uncut Gems.

[653] Uncut Gems.

[654] He was essentially Adam Sandler's guy.

[655] Adam Sandler is loosely based on my father.

[656] So Uncut Gems is a biopic about your father and people should know that.

[657] People should know that.

[658] My dad also talked like that.

[659] Oh, my dad.

[660] Oh, that's a good scene.

[661] Yeah, that is good.

[662] Gosh, what's calling on here?

[663] How come you haven't called?

[664] Whoa, that's really good.

[665] I do some impression.

[666] I'm not a very good impression.

[667] Most of the good impressions I do, I can't do anymore because they're all gone.

[668] Like, Phillips Seamore?

[669] I did a great Philipsie.

[670] Oh, we can, we can honor him right now.

[671] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[672] Let me interview him for one second.

[673] All right.

[674] Holy smokes, man, you've had such a career.

[675] I mean, when I saw Twister, I did not think, oh, this guy is going to end up being one of the greatest you know you know what decks i i just want to say twister is probably the thing i'm least proud of oh wow it's definitely something that i you know my favorite is actually his monologuing book i'm a fucking idiot oh i'm a fucking idiot i'm a fucking idiot for my SNL audition.

[676] I actually did Phil doing his monologue from Mission Impossible 3 where he's like, you have a wife, Ethan, or girlfriend.

[677] I'm going to hurt her.

[678] And then I was like, you know what?

[679] It's so good.

[680] And then he's like, you know what?

[681] I want to, I want to try it.

[682] I want to try it again.

[683] I want to do something a little different.

[684] I'm going to do it a little different.

[685] you know why Ethan Then just did the entire monologue as Truman Capote I mean This is almost scary Problem with your impersonations Which are brilliant Is there all ones that are hard to project Really loud?

[686] Very hard to write I do a good limba That's a good projection Oh let me hear that Let me hear that That's the thing That you have to understand is that I'm a real piece of shit and I don't say that lightly I don't I don't say that proudly but I speak truth to power what your specialty is I'm discovering is any person who sounds like they have a brillopad caught in their voice box you can nail I can nail I'm trying to think who else is that category I do a pretty good Pacino oh let me hear you hear that.

[687] I do one too.

[688] So let's do some heat.

[689] No, you do heat.

[690] You do heat.

[691] I'm going to close my eyes so I can really imagine.

[692] Does this guy have any idea what's going on with this kid?

[693] I got four dead bodies on Venice Boulevard dying.

[694] Sorry, the goddamn chicken's cold.

[695] It's like a six.

[696] You can kind of tell what I'm doing.

[697] Now let's hear a good one.

[698] That's why I went first.

[699] First, I'm going to give you young Pacino because this is very different.

[700] Oh, yeah.

[701] Godfather Petitian.

[702] I'm going to give you.

[703] It's a sweet.

[704] Yes.

[705] Sunny, this is Michael.

[706] Listen, I need you to go back there.

[707] I need you to stay with that.

[708] Okay, stay there.

[709] I'm coming up.

[710] I'm on my way.

[711] Okay, so young, young Pacino.

[712] Now, old Pacino, I am going to tell you something right now, Dax.

[713] I am having the time of my life on this pot thing.

[714] I don't usually, you know, Come in to do things where people can't see me, but this is fun.

[715] I'm having fun doing voices.

[716] This is a good impersonation.

[717] It's a good impression.

[718] This is the thing Monica's most impressive.

[719] I love impressions.

[720] Unfortunately for Dax, when he does them, I just can't look at him while he's doing it.

[721] It's uncomfortable.

[722] But I'm very impressed by good impression.

[723] You know what's funny is over the years, gotten less good at it.

[724] Like when I was in the ground lanes, I could do a bunch of different things.

[725] And now I'm down to about three or four things I can do.

[726] And I don't really know why that is.

[727] Well, because we don't refine it.

[728] Like, right, if we're not like, if you don't have to utilize that skill set, like I do random, like I do a Maya Angelou impression, which I could never use.

[729] Well, you'd have to first explain to most people.

[730] I would have to explain what Maya Angelou is.

[731] The thing is, is like, you don't, well, I don't at least study anymore.

[732] Right.

[733] I don't like watch people and study them and I used to.

[734] I used to study voices and be fascinated and be like, how does a voice?

[735] Like, when Maya Angelou speaks, it says, but I know why the cage bird sings is such a like a specific musicality.

[736] And I'm always like drawn to musicality and voices.

[737] Well, I bet you have the same thing Kristen does.

[738] Hers is almost an OCD thing.

[739] So when we're watching TV and anyone with a unique accent, she must repeat what they just said.

[740] Right.

[741] I do that too.

[742] But this is my point.

[743] My point is that I think we, as Americans in particular, our dialects are becoming more and more diluted, the more we become, you know, intermerced on social media.

[744] And we're just, we're losing that specificity of sound.

[745] So, like, I went to school in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they have, like, Carnegie Mellon.

[746] Carnegie Mellon.

[747] They have a very, thank you.

[748] Very fancy school.

[749] Thank you.

[750] But the first day I got there, I got on the bus, and the guy was.

[751] the bus driver was like, Yin's going downtown and all lot.

[752] And I was like, what?

[753] But like, so drawn to that.

[754] Yeah.

[755] But I feel like the more homogenized we become, the less we can identifiably describe ourselves as being regional.

[756] And so, like, you don't have that Bostonian, like, musicality anymore.

[757] You don't have that New York musicality that much anymore.

[758] New generations.

[759] Older generations do.

[760] Yeah, yeah, you're right.

[761] I did a movie with Ian McKellen, and I just, all I would do.

[762] is just I would speak to him and I would just listen and then I would go home and I'd be like, hello, Josh, how are you?

[763] Like, just like practicing my human McKellon.

[764] Get in my cockles.

[765] Yeah.

[766] Hug me deep.

[767] You should come over tonight and two of us should compare vast differences.

[768] Let's touch in on some of your accomplishments because they're fantastic.

[769] First of all, I didn't know that you had auditioned for Saturday Light which is really exciting.

[770] And something I always wanted to do and never got to me. Hang on one second.

[771] Let's be very honest about this.

[772] Okay.

[773] I sent in tapes auditioning for that.

[774] Oh, okay, okay.

[775] They never actually.

[776] You didn't do that in front of.

[777] I wanted to.

[778] Yeah, me too.

[779] They did not want that.

[780] They clearly didn't.

[781] Then I got the Daily Show.

[782] And I was like, fuck y 'all.

[783] That's kind of the first, would you say kind of breakthrough -y thing?

[784] Yes.

[785] Although you know that I auditioned and got a final callback for punked.

[786] Oh.

[787] Did you know this?

[788] I don't think I knew this.

[789] Have we ever spoken about this?

[790] No. For the first one?

[791] No, no. This was when the year that I auditioned, Hater got it.

[792] Oh, wow.

[793] Wow, wow, wow.

[794] That's crazy.

[795] Early, early, but after you guys had already, like, made it a whole thing.

[796] And were you, did Coutcher remember that when you did jobs?

[797] Oh, yeah.

[798] Oh, he did.

[799] Oh, Ashen totally remembered it.

[800] Yeah.

[801] Well, you know, I really was, I was saved by him.

[802] I think I auditioned like five times and I kept going like higher up the MTV food chain thank you so much but at one point I was out and then Coucher just said I don't love everyone you guys to select it let me go through some of these tapes and he found me they had had another audition without me and then he was like no I think that guy has something so God bless him God bless him yeah so that was one of the dad didn't leave you you're not sitting here and if Cutcher didn't look at those tapes I'm not saying it's all like it usually always comes comes back to Father and Coutcher.

[803] And AK.

[804] So I wanted to be out of college, for whatever reason, I desperately only saw one path for myself, which was I would be on Saturday Night Live.

[805] I wanted to be Chris Farley.

[806] Chris Farley, sure.

[807] You know, because that's who I grew up with.

[808] I grew up with Sandler and Chris and all those guys.

[809] And I had this image in my mind that I, for some reason, going to conservatory to study theater for four years.

[810] I would be like, oh, I know the best path to get on SNL is to study Shakespeare for four years in Pittsburgh.

[811] Do you remember why you made...

[812] Because you just didn't know yet what you wanted.

[813] It seemed safer or something?

[814] I think it seemed safer.

[815] Like, I had ambitions of going to Chicago and doing Second City or, you know, or doing the groundlings.

[816] And I really wanted to first and foremost, really train so that I could understand my craft.

[817] I really was like, okay, like I got to do this so that I understand what the hell I'm doing, right?

[818] Right, right.

[819] Was it that or was it this is such a flighty fantasy and I want to root it in something that feels very hard and regimented and does that make sense?

[820] Yeah.

[821] I had a lot of success in high school in my small little school of doing all the lead roles and all of that felt like.

[822] bullshit once I got out into the real world and I knew that and I was like I need to understand what it is I'm doing because I feel like so many of the things I'm doing I'm doing I'm doing I'm doing by the way still don't right right right sometimes it's best not to and it ruined it actually conservatory ruined a lot of my friends because it it got rid of that impulse that made them actually do that thing which you can't even self -conscious it made me self -conscious It confused me. Right.

[823] And it wasn't until I actually left Carnegie and went to NIDA in Australia, National Institute of Dramatic Arts, to see what the hell was in the water because that was the time like when all of the Australians were coming to American taking every role.

[824] Russell Crow.

[825] Russell and...

[826] Russell Crow and Russell from the gladiators in.

[827] But all of them were sort of coming in and doing this amazing work.

[828] So I wanted to see what was in the water there.

[829] But it wasn't until after I left that it actually, any of it started making sense to me. And what ended up making sense of that whole four -year experiment?

[830] There are certain applicable things that, depending on the role that I'm doing, are really good at setting a foundation, right?

[831] Like understanding what your character's objective is, understanding what the tactics of that are going to look like.

[832] like understanding what the obstacle is in order for you to achieve your objective.

[833] I watched Downey one time on off -camera with Sam Jones.

[834] I just did.

[835] I love Sam.

[836] Oh, me too.

[837] So fascinating.

[838] It's so fun.

[839] But Downey said he got pulled aside by Warren Beatty, who I want to say somehow was producing the pickup artist or was involved in some capacity.

[840] And he pulled Downey aside and he said, what are you doing in this scene?

[841] And he goes, oh, I pull up in front of the girl's thing and I read her a note or whatever.

[842] he says and he goes no no no what are you doing in this what are you trying to do in the scene and down he goes well I'm just trying you know and he starts he doesn't know what he's doing the scene and Warren says you can be late to set you can not know some of your lines not knowing what you're trying to get and you've seen unacceptable you got to know what you're trying to get and then he really took that to heart and it changed that that's it's just about specificity and I think that there's a lot of bullshit look I think that you can probably learn what I learned in a year and a half two years and they're sort of like drag it out but again i'm not belittling the thing because i've watched it do wonders for certain people i just think it's kind of like what type of student were you in high school were you the kind that did really well with this structured thing or i think it's like as individual as people are what i was a shitty student at first i was a really fucking somehow i figured out a way to get f's and d's in like second grade where like i know that shouldn't be possible and my mom threatened to take me out of the school that I was going to with all my friends and I turned my academic career around because I was just like fuck I don't want to go to like the really shitty school down the block I figured it out and it was a pretty good student specifically the things that I gravitated towards history right English horrible at math and science horrible like probably brought down the average at Carnegie Mellon once I went there but really really love to learn, love to absorb.

[843] Still, do you love history?

[844] I love history.

[845] I'm not fond of living through history as I think we're living through it.

[846] I am an avid biography reader.

[847] Right now, I'm reading the Thomas Edison biography, which I would highly recommend by Edmund Morris.

[848] Thank you.

[849] I've been dying, Monica and I talked about this like four different times.

[850] We had this wonderful guy Adam Grant on, who's a professor, who is obsessed with Edison, and as are many people.

[851] And, So we were both like, I got to find a good biography, but there's so many.

[852] I don't know which one's great.

[853] Edmund Morris wrote a trilogy of books about my favorite president, Theodore Roosevelt.

[854] Oh, sure.

[855] I read the McCullough.

[856] Well, David McCullough is my other favorite biographer.

[857] I mean, McCullough's incredible.

[858] But if you haven't read them, these Edmund Morris, Teddy Roosevelt biographies are spectacular.

[859] Really?

[860] Spectacular.

[861] Have you read Devil in the White City?

[862] Oh, yes.

[863] And we're going to interview Eric.

[864] Yeah.

[865] Yeah, that's coming up.

[866] I love that.

[867] I've gotten so much.

[868] Yes.

[869] Did you read the Lusitania book that he did?

[870] No, is that great?

[871] Because I wanted to read one right before I interview.

[872] Read Lusitania in the Garden of the Beast is also really fascinating.

[873] And that one was all about doubt.

[874] In the Garden of the Beast is about this ambassador to Germany.

[875] Oh, to Germany.

[876] Leading up to World War II and fascinating insight into what was going.

[877] on the ground.

[878] It's great.

[879] It's great.

[880] And also really incriminating in terms of America's position, which was basically we wanted our remunerations for World War I. And we just sent our ambassador there to collect debt.

[881] And he was ill equipped to be an ambassador, right?

[882] He was like a professor or something in Chicago.

[883] And he had no expense account.

[884] The previous ambassadors have been rich.

[885] So they would throw these parties and stuff for other diplomats out of their own pocket.

[886] And this guy had no fucking money.

[887] And his daughter was like kind of romantically involved with a Nazi.

[888] Yes.

[889] Like a serious Nazi.

[890] It's fascinating.

[891] Cool.

[892] I love anytime because we have such a one dimensional view of World War II and Nazis and Germany.

[893] And anytime you get into the particulars of like the minutia of it is so fascinating to me. Because it's such a highlight real of insanity that when you get into the minutia of like cocktail parties and stuff during that time and how they were trying to persuade the rest of the world.

[894] Like all that stuff is so fascinating.

[895] It's very hard for me because both my grandparents were Holocaust survivors.

[896] And so like there's a part of seeing them as humans as humans that I struggle with especially.

[897] And I think Spielberg has actually said this about like putting him as characters in his movies.

[898] He regrets to a certain extent.

[899] I think he regrets it because it almost paints them as elevating.

[900] beyond reality to a point where they're like they look like fictional characters when they feel like supernatural or they do just pieces of shit well they're always played as the embodiment of evil yes yeah and i think what's more challenging and also more rewarding is to get real about it like no there were a ton of normal people that got swept up in something that is way more nuance and interesting to me than all of a sudden a veil of of evil fell over 35 million people.

[901] That requires some kind of supernatural element.

[902] I don't believe in.

[903] A hundred percent.

[904] Yeah.

[905] And there's nothing to learn from that lesson.

[906] No. Whereas if you recognize like I'm not a Nazi apologist by any stretch, but recognizing the table that was set for that to happen is very relevant to recognize and that they buried that country for so long, they were like, whatever you tell me is the enemy, I can't live like this anymore.

[907] That's something to avoid.

[908] You ask me if I love history.

[909] I think it's essential to learn from history.

[910] And I think like right now we are seeing a level of demagoguery throughout the world where we're falling into patterns of nationalism, of populism, of these, you know, things that traditionally and historically never end well, right?

[911] They don't, they don't.

[912] I think you can be empathetic and have justice at the same time.

[913] So this rise of populism, in my opinion, also reflects a huge chunk of the world feeling completely disenfranchised.

[914] Now, I don't sympathize with their goals or what they want or nationalism in general, but I recognize a lot of people feel excluded from a system, and that seems like a viable option.

[915] So how do we fix the causing agent of it, as opposed to demonizing everyone that's got to swept up in.

[916] And I think that the problem is, is that politics, especially in America, have become a football game.

[917] You are either rooting for one team or the other.

[918] And I think that it really is, again, important to go back and historically look at everything pre -Clinton, right?

[919] Because that's when it really started to become so divisive as Clinton, Bush, Bush, and Obama and now Trump is our Congress in particular no longer knows how to reach across the aisle.

[920] You know, I think in many ways McCain was like the last of those people who could do.

[921] that yeah and i think that if we can't get back to finding common ground on issues yeah we're doomed the one thing that gives me hope is that we've been here before oh totally that's the thing that's encouraging it is a cycle and i hope that the cycle plays itself out and and we can find some sort of unity again yeah i think we what you know what it is is there's a great bit of human nature at play that's helpful, which is people just get bored of stuff.

[922] Oh, yes.

[923] They get fatigued.

[924] And people have gotten fatigued.

[925] And I think we're all kind of sick of fucking fighting.

[926] It's like we've been fighting with our wife now for six years or whatever it's been.

[927] It's just like, I guess I don't care enough anymore.

[928] You know, like let's just calm down the fervor.

[929] Yeah.

[930] Yeah, I think you're right.

[931] I think you're right.

[932] I think people are just tired.

[933] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[934] But you know who was not.

[935] tired in 2004 -ish was a young Josh Gad.

[936] Tell me more about that.

[937] Yeah, he was on fire to find employment.

[938] And you know, we've now interviewed enough people where I'm more and more recognized that the Daily Show is a path not unlike Saturday Night Live.

[939] Like now in retrospect, the amount of incredible talents that have come out of that funnel is incredible.

[940] It's, you know, it's now rivaling SNL.

[941] It really was so unbelievable to be there during.

[942] John's tenure.

[943] It was after Colbert and Karel had left, but there during John Oliver's prime.

[944] Yeah.

[945] It was me, Samantha B, Jason Jones, Wyatt Sannack.

[946] It was a great group.

[947] It was a great group and an amazing opportunity to learn from somebody who understands satire in a different way right like sitting opposite john is one of the most intimidating propositions i've ever been accountable to i just would sit and watch this man look at a proposal for like a piece and the way he would dissect it both from a comedic standpoint but also just understanding the messaging of what he wanted to get across was just just fascinating well isn't he kind of the originator of take yeah for lack of a better word like he really was like great everyone has this info what is our unique take on this info but i also think he rightfully so understood that a lot of people got their news from him right right and he took that very seriously yeah he would take that very seriously and constantly forced the writers to make sure that they weren't only getting the joke across, but the message across as well.

[948] So that was an insanely blessed period in my life where I just got to sit and learn from a master.

[949] The truth is it was happening at the same time as Book of Mormon was about to happen.

[950] So my tenure was cut short in a way that I wish I could have had more time.

[951] And I was only there for about, about six, seven months, traveling back and forth because I was living in L .A. being a guest correspondent.

[952] And then as I was thinking about making the move to New York to The Daily Show, Mormon comes into my life.

[953] And I said, John, I'm so sorry, but I got to go do this crazy show that's probably only going to be on for like two months.

[954] Well, but you had a couple zingers within your short tenure, which is you had like the War on Christmas and Chubby Chasers, right?

[955] You had a couple real winners.

[956] I did.

[957] My favorite one is the gun piece I did.

[958] which was my second piece ever.

[959] My first episode of The Daily Show was a train wreck.

[960] I did a piece with John on air that was just fucking miserable.

[961] I was so pissed at myself.

[962] And he was so gracious and was like, it's okay.

[963] Like, you know, it takes a minute.

[964] You'll figure it out.

[965] No worries.

[966] And you're going to get a second shot.

[967] You're going to get a second shot.

[968] And I was like, I'm never going to worry.

[969] You get him awful.

[970] I was just like, fuck.

[971] you dad you're a fucking piece of shit john's right about you even though he hasn't said anything i know he's right about you you're an asshole and so i was like i got to fucking prove myself and i did this piece that my producer miles con who now runs uh samantha b's show full frontal he brought me this piece and it was about guns being an investment opportunity like ak47s and all these guns and so i went to go speak to a lot of people who were buying these weapons as gifts for like babies and like for like for weddings and stuff and I mean we're talking like hardcore weaponry sure and it made me laugh and so I did that piece and then that's when I found my groove and then about seven months later I left you committed to this musical which no one could have predicted it would be what it was no I thought it was gonna flop yeah I mean there's so many red flags along the way you know you're gonna tackle religion you're gonna you know there's a lot of things and i was just curious on the uh looking at from the outside i was like god i wonder if he thought this was a step backwards initially it's weird i had a voice in my head telling me i had to do book a Mormon no matter what oh really here's what i knew i knew i wasn't creatively satisfied to the extent that i wanted to be as an actor i was having a great time doing daily show pieces.

[972] I was having a great time earning a really good living, doing like character roles on, you know, not great shows and doing, you know, the occasional best friend funny guy role in a movie.

[973] I was making a good living as an actor, but I didn't feel I was hungry still.

[974] Right.

[975] And I got a call one day.

[976] I'd done a Broadway show called the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.

[977] Oh, right.

[978] That's where it all started.

[979] I kind of forgot that.

[980] I took over for Dan Fogler.

[981] He won his Tony, and who's brilliant, created this amazing role, and I was blessed enough to come in and do it.

[982] And so that opened the door.

[983] And then a couple of years later, I got a phone call from Bobby Lopez, who had written a show called Avenue Q. And after Avenue Q, he and the creators of South Park, Tramette were doing the show called Book of Mormon.

[984] So he calls me up, and he's like, we're going to do a reading of this.

[985] And we would love to have you do it.

[986] and I'm thinking to myself oh this must be like that South Park episode about the Mormons so I'm assuming in my head that they want me to play like Cartman and at the time they were toying with it being a movie they weren't sure if it was going to be for the stage so he said we're going to fly you to New York we only have the first act you're this character Elder Cunningham and you know I'll send you the music so I start listening to music and I can listen to this first song Hello my name is out And I'm like, this is brilliant.

[987] And then the second song, two by two, we go, and I'm like this.

[988] Well, wait, can I just say my favorite line of that first song is, did you know that Jesus was born here in the USA?

[989] Princeton drug me to that.

[990] I hate musicals.

[991] She drug me to your performance of it.

[992] Did you like it?

[993] When that lyric hit me, I was like, oh, I'm in, I'm in, and Commander butt fuck naked or whatever.

[994] General butt fucking naked played by, you know who played that role?

[995] General.

[996] You know who played that role on Broadway?

[997] Who?

[998] Brian Tyree Henry, who has gone on to become the star of Atlanta and, like, is fucking blowing up right now.

[999] Wait, Paperboy?

[1000] Yes.

[1001] Oh, my God.

[1002] Paperboy played him?

[1003] Yes.

[1004] Oh, my God.

[1005] Wow.

[1006] So I get the music, and I get to this song called at the time Vasati Eli, and I listen to it, and I call up my age and after, and I go, I can't do this.

[1007] And they're like, why?

[1008] And I go, it is so, it's going to get me fucking killed.

[1009] And they're like, well, it's Trey and Matt.

[1010] I mean, they're always pushing the boundaries.

[1011] And I go, no. And I play the song.

[1012] And there's multiple lyrics in it that say, fuck you got in the ass mouth and cunt.

[1013] And my agent is like, oh, yeah, you can't do this.

[1014] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1015] This is too far.

[1016] This is gotten too far.

[1017] And for whatever reason, I was like, let me just go do this reading of it the small reading and an intimate setting and let's see if it works i mean i it's one thing to have animated characters do crazy shit it's another thing to have real people do it yeah and i did it and i'll never forget white knuckling it during that that song and i looked out and i saw the audience gasp and then watched as the gasps quickly turned into explosive laughter And I don't know if we could get away with it today It came out at just the right time For sure And Trey and Matt Like John They understand satire in a way A few people do And you know I remember actually saying to them once I said we were like a week away from opening And I said to them I feel like we have won too many Like baby rape jokes in the song And like I think it's gonna make I think it's going to make our audience really uncomfortable and Matt looks at me and he goes, do you know what?

[1018] I think you're right about the fact that we're off on the baby rape jokes and I go, oh, phew, thank you.

[1019] And he goes, I think we need to add an old.

[1020] Oh, ha.

[1021] And I go, oh, fuck.

[1022] And he goes, you know, if we're not beating the audience over the head, then they're going to, going to get uncomfortable because we're not committing to the joke it's so true and that is such a great lesson because it's like the thing that makes trey matt so fucking brilliant at what they do is they never run away they never look scared it's their conviction yeah it's the same thing chapelle has oh my god how brilliant was that oh my god i love six and stones it was incredible so i i think that that was a great lesson and i'm learning it again working with armando yinucci now who I think is the other king of satire.

[1023] There's that level of commitment.

[1024] Well, I had over my time at the Groundlings several different sketches that were kind of built on that architecture where the first three times people were going to hate it and then the fourth time it was going to hit them and then four through eight were going to be bananas.

[1025] But doing those sketches for the first time when you're those first three times and it's just crickets and miserable.

[1026] Like I had a sketch, again, you couldn't possibly do this today.

[1027] But my friend Josh and I were throwing rocks at some schoolmates window.

[1028] And we were yelling out, what are you doing in there?

[1029] You're queer.

[1030] What are you queer?

[1031] And then everyone hates it, right?

[1032] The whole audience hates it.

[1033] And then slowly it's like, what are you fucking, fucking, and they're combing your gorgeous blonde hair, you fucking queen?

[1034] And then you come to find out we are head over heels in love with Chad.

[1035] I love that.

[1036] But, man, it's a long walk to the turn.

[1037] And you just got to be steely resolved.

[1038] feels so.

[1039] Oh, they're so rewarding.

[1040] They're so rewarding.

[1041] But you can't.

[1042] I don't know if you would do that.

[1043] I don't know.

[1044] I think you could still do it if it's clear that the person you're making fun of is in love.

[1045] Yes.

[1046] You're not making fun of a gay person.

[1047] You're making fun of the person.

[1048] But by the way, why does that joke work?

[1049] That joke works because we all know people like that.

[1050] Exactly.

[1051] Like there was a guy in my class when I was growing up in high school who was that guy, always was like you know he would much worse than queen and queer and he would you fucking fag and this and that and that person ended up married to a dude yeah yeah and I and I just think that it's a fascinating thing because it's like I think the self -flagellation I think it's a self -flagellation it's the idea that like they're so uncomfortable with themselves yeah but it's it's a distancing yourself from that like if I don't like it then I must not be that for the world yeah it's It's just, you're putting that out there.

[1052] It almost seems like the best way to hide.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] Sorry, what are you doing with Armando?

[1055] I have a show on HBO called Avenue 5 with Hugh Lorry, Zach Woods, Susie Nakamura.

[1056] Oh, boy.

[1057] And just this amazing ensemble of Rebecca Front.

[1058] And it premieres January 19th.

[1059] I'm so obsessed with Hugh Lurie.

[1060] I've never met on.

[1061] Oh, my God, he's incredible.

[1062] Is he incredible?

[1063] He's everything you want him to be.

[1064] and more.

[1065] Wasn't he a successful crime novelist in England?

[1066] Like, he's written successful crime.

[1067] I'm not surprised.

[1068] I didn't know that.

[1069] He's also, like, a savant with music.

[1070] Rides a motorcycle to work every day, which you would appreciate it.

[1071] Oh, my goodness.

[1072] Absolutely hardcore into cars into, like, machinery.

[1073] Oh, I gotta get him on him.

[1074] Oh, you would love him.

[1075] You would love him.

[1076] He is truly, like, I don't use this.

[1077] word.

[1078] I actually throw this word around too much.

[1079] Let's be honest.

[1080] I throw this word around way too much.

[1081] I was going to say, I don't use this word lightly.

[1082] I actually use it very lightly.

[1083] But Hugh Lorry actually is a true fucking genius.

[1084] I would agree with that.

[1085] He's so fucking funny in this show.

[1086] And I think like working with Armando and Veep, the two of them wanted to, you know, find something that would make him front and center.

[1087] And this show's I am so excited.

[1088] What's the subject matter of it?

[1089] Oh, you're in space.

[1090] We're in space.

[1091] I know this.

[1092] Yeah.

[1093] It is, I think what Armando realized is like, satire can no longer be set in the present because it's, it's so, like, insane what's happening right now that you can't compete with it.

[1094] Right, right, right, right.

[1095] So by sort of setting it 40 years in the future, you can kind of use it as a reflection of what we're dealing with in the present.

[1096] Yeah.

[1097] And like idiocracy, which I think also.

[1098] You're right.

[1099] We were allowed to make fun of people in a way that you can't do.

[1100] And I think that, so that's what's driving this experiment, we'll call it.

[1101] It's pretty fucking bold and hilarious.

[1102] There's set pieces, comedic set pieces that we're doing on it that I've just never seen before where I'm just like, how does your brain think of this shit?

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] It's really fun.

[1105] And you know what I have to do after this.

[1106] I have to go direct your wife.

[1107] What?

[1108] In what?

[1109] Oh, in your guys' cartoon.

[1110] Yeah.

[1111] So you have a cartoon, Central Park.

[1112] park and it's a musical cartoon it's a musical cartoon and christin says the music's just off the charts great and every single time she's come home she's like fucking music is so great i love doing it and she's so fucking good you got nominated for a tony it was a huge deal you were sensational then you got all these opportunities now you and i both had lots ups and downs it has to be a testament to what a pleasure you are to work with i never understand why the fuck anyone would wouldn't be nice doing this.

[1113] For me, there isn't a day where I don't pinch myself and say, you are the fucking luckiest person alive.

[1114] Like, not a day.

[1115] Because I got to, we're literally sitting on chairs right now doing our job.

[1116] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1117] Talking to each other in the most chill and relaxed way.

[1118] Yeah, it's a job.

[1119] And this is your job today.

[1120] And like, there are people fucking going into coal mines right now.

[1121] There are people who are absolutely looking up at this guy and saying, why the fuck can I do what I love to do?

[1122] Yes, but I do want to add one caveat because there is this grand illusion.

[1123] Let me tell you something.

[1124] I'm having a blast doing this and I love it.

[1125] But guess what?

[1126] I washed cars for 14 years for General Motors and I had a fucking blast doing that.

[1127] So if you're waiting to have a blast, guess what?

[1128] You're the problem.

[1129] I just want to add that.

[1130] You can't wait for the big thing to occur before you start having a blast.

[1131] 100%.

[1132] Some people have to work three jobs and raise children and they can't have a blast.

[1133] It's not an option.

[1134] But I could literally show you my time cards from shows and shoots.

[1135] I regularly on those shows, we worked seven days straight.

[1136] And regularly, I was putting in 119 hours for the week.

[1137] I was making like 80 hours of overtime.

[1138] Yeah, but you're working with your best friends and your mom's.

[1139] I'm just saying that it's easy to think that the status of the job is what you're waiting for to have a good time.

[1140] I just want to say that that's your decision.

[1141] I agree with that, but I also agree with what.

[1142] Monica's saying is like some jobs are objectively there are there are people who have to fucking work three jobs who didn't sign up for that and they find it absolutely miserable but they know that they have to do it because they have to pay the bills and yeah my point is is that I fucking got lucky right I got lucky because that thing that I wanted to do where the average person who does it makes less than the average housekeeper I got fucking blessed and I got to do it and I got to be successful at it.

[1143] Oh, yeah.

[1144] And that to me means that at the very least, I should show fucking respect and kindness to the people that I work with.

[1145] You've literally, literally had three lottery tickets.

[1146] You had Book of Mormon.

[1147] That is a billion dollar fucking Broadway show.

[1148] And then you're in Frozen one and you're in Frozen two.

[1149] Like all three of those are, are mega jackpot lottery tickets.

[1150] Yeah, it's been crazy.

[1151] It's been a crazy ride.

[1152] Because you know, you didn't work less hard on jobs.

[1153] No, I worked harder.

[1154] Right.

[1155] I work harder.

[1156] There's no relationship to your workload and the outcome in these situations.

[1157] I've never done a project outside of Beauty and the Beast where I've been like, this is a guarantee.

[1158] Right.

[1159] Like I've never been like, this is a fucking guarantee.

[1160] Beauty and the Beast, I knew it was going to work because it worked before.

[1161] Yeah, yeah.

[1162] And unless you really fuck it up, it's going to work.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] But everything else, I was like, Book of Mormon will be so fun.

[1165] But who the fuck is going to see?

[1166] What part of that Broadway community is the blue hair community?

[1167] is going to come and watch a show.

[1168] Yeah, Upper East Side people.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] And they did.

[1171] It's just, it's a good lesson because you followed fun.

[1172] You picked process over result in those cases.

[1173] You had a job on the Daily Show.

[1174] That's a huge job.

[1175] And you know the outcome.

[1176] Yeah, you know the outcome of that.

[1177] Instead, you knew this is something that was going to bring you joy, even if it was a month or two months.

[1178] So that's, you know, a good lesson to follow those things.

[1179] And I think I have a theory that in a way that's part of people's luck.

[1180] Kristen has always done things for the right reason.

[1181] I have not always done things for the right reason.

[1182] I often did things because I thought the result would be one thing or I wanted money or whatever thing.

[1183] And she's just never ever operated that way and she's had tremendous success not giving a shit.

[1184] I'm trying to get your wife to do something else with me because I just fucking love working with her.

[1185] Yeah.

[1186] And hearing her process and work through why she's going to do something or why she's not going to do something is actually a really great lesson.

[1187] Well, it's just it's family.

[1188] It's family.

[1189] And like, I forget to remind myself of that.

[1190] I'm really blown away by both of you.

[1191] I think that you guys are, you balance your personal life beautifully against your work life.

[1192] And that's a struggle sometimes.

[1193] That is a real struggle.

[1194] I'm away from home a lot and I hate it.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] Do you remember meeting Tom Hanson?

[1197] He's one of my best friends.

[1198] Yes.

[1199] So Tom Hanson was telling me that your four -year -old daughter is a carbon copy of my four -year -old daughter they're identical they're identical we call her shirley farley she's a mix between shirley temple and chris farley you don't understand if we give the two of them a reality show a fucking reality show it would hands down beat the Kardashians it would eclipse all of our careers our daughters are both clinically insane yeah volcanoes yeah they're volcanoes oh i love that and my older one is much more like sweet and very emotional wears her heart on her sleeve is like beyond literal so fucking practical we said to her the other day we were packing luggage and Ida my wife looks at them and goes I'm gonna have to pack a lot in here and I want to put something else in here and I got annoyed and she's like I can't do you understand I'm packing me and you in this bag she goes you're gonna pack me in that bag and my wife's like no I'm gonna pack your stuff but like that's the way she perceives every year sure sure it's so sweet but also really challenging at times but really quick just to talk about frozen for one second again I think you guys had a better sense than I did but when we watched the first Frozen together number one you know Lasseter and Kristen looked at each other and they knew and I don't know because that's not my thing I didn't consume a lot of those Disney animated movies and so I have no sense of whether you know I was like that's a good movie yeah not like oh that's a once -in -a -lifetime type of movie did you know it as well?

[1200] When I saw this screening, what I knew was it made me feel the way I felt when I was growing up and I saw movies like Aladdin and Lion King and Little Mermaid.

[1201] Like I felt like, oh, feel like your heart was online or something.

[1202] Yeah, and like I remember my wife, who's very much like you where she's like, who knows, she looked at me and she goes, that's pretty damn special.

[1203] Like that feels pretty damn special.

[1204] That's a really good movie.

[1205] Well, I knew I got really raging boost bumps when Ademps, yeah.

[1206] Dina sang, let it go.

[1207] Do you want to hear something crazy?

[1208] I saw, they showed me that six months before the movie came out.

[1209] And I had no idea what the fuck we were making.

[1210] I was like, what is this movie?

[1211] Well, and for people that don't know, you make about nine versions of the movie along the way.

[1212] At least nine versions.

[1213] Yeah, so you never really know what movie you're in until you see it.

[1214] But they showed me that, and I begged them.

[1215] I was like, you guys have to just release a trailer of this song.

[1216] Like, do what you did on Lion King with Circle of Life.

[1217] And if you remember, they didn't sell the movie as a musical.

[1218] right because they were afraid boys weren't going to go they were afraid boys weren't going to come nobody knew it was a musical until like it came out and that yeah and that's clearly it's genius you know when i was reading about you i've known that you are very active and ambitious and producerial minded and you want to be a creator and you've set up a bunch of projects more than i knew you had set up and i too have sold about 10 scripts to studios that just never got made and it's a talent to learn to just move on it's hard it's hard it's hard breaking And a couple of them I read about it.

[1219] I was like, God, I want to see that, like the Toy Wars thing, which I have to imagine has some really salacious, fun, real war between Hasbro and...

[1220] Hasbro and Mattel.

[1221] It was a bummer because it's such an amazing story.

[1222] And hopefully one day we can make it as a film or something, but you do.

[1223] You spend so much time working on projects like that or Muppets, and it's heartbreaking when you just can't...

[1224] But I can see where it kills writers.

[1225] Like, because I've written things I was in love with, and I could say, see myself spending the next five years just trying to get that thing made as opposed to okay next thing it didn't go i got to just keep i had to learn it the hard way and now i'm sort of in a really healthy place like you know at a certain point you just like it's not going to work let's just move on yeah next time let's cut our losses and yeah and this exists and maybe one day we can brush it off and you can i think it's really the only way to do it otherwise you go nuts yeah josh i love you i'm really do another two hours.

[1226] I'm almost glad we didn't get into so much of your work because that leaves the door open for you to return.

[1227] Yes, five years from now when I'm six, seven years.

[1228] Really on the other end of my career.

[1229] I'll be in a wheelchair and sit on an armchair.

[1230] So Josh, what happened?

[1231] No, you'll look like Kumail by then.

[1232] That's right, the next time I see you.

[1233] I'm only going to be veins.

[1234] I'm going to be 90 % veins.

[1235] It might be our first video release of a podcast.

[1236] Can we make that promise is that like if I come in looking like Kumel, I'm sure.

[1237] The shirtless the entire thing.

[1238] I'll go by the cameras.

[1239] And it's exclusive video.

[1240] There's actually no mics.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] But we're having a long conversation.

[1243] Yeah, we're having a long conversation.

[1244] You see mouse moving.

[1245] Yeah, everybody's like, that sounds really, do you know where I could get the audio?

[1246] In the look on your face looks like De Niro.

[1247] Oh, he must be doing a De Niro accent right now.

[1248] He must be doing like crazy De Niro.

[1249] That's the Impressionist guy.

[1250] That's Josh God, the impressionist guy.

[1251] The muscle building impressionist guy.

[1252] I adore you.

[1253] I adore you.

[1254] It's been a blast.

[1255] Thank you so much.

[1256] Thank you, Josh.

[1257] Please come back.

[1258] With your next billion dollar property, you fucking crap.

[1259] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1260] Gosh, Chad.

[1261] I want to start by saying that in the interim of interviewing him and today, recording the fact check, I watched his cartoon.

[1262] That's coming out, I think, on Apple.

[1263] Uh -huh.

[1264] It's called Central Park.

[1265] It is.

[1266] It's so good.

[1267] I couldn't believe.

[1268] I think it might be my favorite thing that Kristen's been in.

[1269] I love it.

[1270] It's like almost a combination between Simpsons and Family Guy.

[1271] It's so funny for the adults.

[1272] And then the songs are insanely good.

[1273] Like all these incredible songwriters write the music for it.

[1274] That's awesome.

[1275] Kristen's got a song in it.

[1276] We all can't stop singing in the house.

[1277] I think it's the best song she's sang.

[1278] Awesome.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] It was written by Sarah Borellas.

[1281] Oh, love Sarah Borellas so much.

[1282] I could sing so I could give you a taste of it.

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] You'll just have to watch Central Park.

[1285] Watch Central Park.

[1286] And then maybe the next time Mom's in here, we'll make her sing it.

[1287] Josh Gad.

[1288] Well done, Josh.

[1289] Great job.

[1290] Great job.

[1291] Gosh, Jad.

[1292] Yeah, he's fun.

[1293] He is.

[1294] What a quick -witted son of a bitch.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] Oh, so he told us that he had a physical, and you were asking what the hardest part about the physical was.

[1297] Because for you, it's not drinking coffee.

[1298] He was allowed to drink coffee, and there was a big hullabaloo about that.

[1299] Well, he's got more of a loosey -goosey doctor than I have.

[1300] But let me tell you something.

[1301] I just called my doctor last week to schedule an appointment.

[1302] Oh, man, I wish.

[1303] No, my primary care physician to make an appointment for an annual physical.

[1304] Okay.

[1305] With blood work.

[1306] And they said they're not doing fasting anymore, that I don't have to fast at all.

[1307] What?

[1308] Exactly.

[1309] What the fuck?

[1310] Times had changed.

[1311] I can eat a huge breakfast right before I go.

[1312] I want you to eat a pound of bacon right before they take your blood.

[1313] I don't trust it.

[1314] I'm still going to fast because I'm very skeptical.

[1315] I need clean blood.

[1316] It sounded like you had a gotcha moment, but then find out you're still going to fast.

[1317] I am.

[1318] It is a gotcha for you.

[1319] He probably definitely was allowed to drink caffeine because now you can do anything.

[1320] Oh my gosh.

[1321] You can stop at McDonald's and have like a fucking sassage.

[1322] I guess so.

[1323] I wonder what the difference is.

[1324] I'm going to ask when I go what's changed.

[1325] But, yeah, you can just eat your heart out.

[1326] Can I share with people this weird transition I'm going through?

[1327] Sure.

[1328] Which is it started with the Whitney Houston documentary.

[1329] And then watched two Whitney Houston documentaries in one weekend and became obsessed with her.

[1330] And then you and I watched the Taylor Swift documentary.

[1331] Yep.

[1332] And we became obsessed with her.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] And I just want to be clear so that if people are on the fence about watching, that.

[1335] I, in the past, was like, if I were younger, Taylor Swift wouldn't be the thing for me because she's just so widely accepted.

[1336] And she's kind of like had a goody.

[1337] She's like a Barnes and Noble.

[1338] Well, she had like a goody, goody kind of persona, you know, clean cut American girl.

[1339] And I think for all my own personal reasons, I was like, yeah, I need something a little edgier.

[1340] So that's when I entered the documentary in.

[1341] And I left thinking she is so phenomenal on so many levels, right?

[1342] I agree.

[1343] We were just wowed by her nonstop.

[1344] Yeah, she's so, she's very self -aware, which I loved.

[1345] And she's transitioning, it sounds like, out of trying to be the thing everybody wants her to be.

[1346] She's kind of done with that.

[1347] And it's fun to watch.

[1348] It's really cool.

[1349] It's a very good documentary.

[1350] It's a very good documentary.

[1351] And then I decided, I'm going to buy all of her songs.

[1352] I mean, there's a...

[1353] I already have pretty much all of her songs.

[1354] She makes the catchiest music.

[1355] She does.

[1356] I do have already like five or six of her songs.

[1357] And you know I love that song.

[1358] It's about me so much.

[1359] He's so tall.

[1360] We already did this.

[1361] It's Harry Styles.

[1362] I mean, that's the rumor that it's Harry Styles, but I think when we interviewer, we'll come to find out it's about me. Okay.

[1363] Anyways, so then the Super Bowl halftime show happens.

[1364] Oh, my goodness.

[1365] I was all a titter.

[1366] I decided I'm obsessed now was Shakira.

[1367] Yeah.

[1368] I need to know more about her.

[1369] I want to learn about her.

[1370] Can I say this is a. a little bit of a microcosm of your life.

[1371] How's how?

[1372] That you just get a little piece of somebody and then you love them.

[1373] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1374] You love them all the way.

[1375] Yeah, yeah.

[1376] And that's what's happened with these three folks.

[1377] Yeah, I was just obsessed with, yeah, Shakira, Whitney Houston, and Taylor Swift.

[1378] I think it's funny because I'm mostly obsessed with like off -road racers and motorcycle racers.

[1379] but slowly and surely, all my interests are...

[1380] Pop singers.

[1381] Yeah, pop singer.

[1382] I think what I like about it is there's so much left undiscovered because Cher is on the table.

[1383] Celine Dion is on the table.

[1384] Oh, I mean, if we can get you coming around on Celine, that'd be great.

[1385] All they need to do is make a documentary about her, and I guarantee I'd love her.

[1386] It's a hard life those people have.

[1387] Oh, my God.

[1388] It really is.

[1389] It's so isolating.

[1390] It's their whole life.

[1391] Yeah.

[1392] Those tours, we were watching Taylor Swift, I was like, you know, man, just living in a hotel half the year, it's just a very lonely, isolating experience.

[1393] You're not home.

[1394] You know your life's like unhold temporarily.

[1395] Forever, though, kind of.

[1396] Yeah.

[1397] For as long as you're succeeding anyway.

[1398] And the like the weight and stress of, oh, the last five albums have been number one.

[1399] And if this is number five now, I'm a huge failure of like falling off a cliff.

[1400] Like, oh, those stakes.

[1401] Yeah.

[1402] Also, I think it's really great to watch with kids.

[1403] I'm really looking forward to watching the Taylor Swift one with the girls.

[1404] because it really explores relying on other people's approval for your own self -esteem, which is, I think we all tend to fall into.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] And then also the eating stuff is really important here.

[1407] Agreed.

[1408] Yeah.

[1409] Good for her for including that.

[1410] I know.

[1411] I was so impressed by her.

[1412] I am too.

[1413] She's my favorite person.

[1414] Oh, so you're right.

[1415] You do, right?

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] What I was thinking also is, thank God for Netflix.

[1418] I mean, every time.

[1419] I'm like, when am I going to watch?

[1420] I turn it on and there's something new.

[1421] Like there was a Taylor Swift and then there was, I mean, there was cheer.

[1422] There was the goop lab.

[1423] Like, there's every time I turn it on, there's something new for me to get excited about.

[1424] They are brilliant over there.

[1425] I mean, it's just, we're living in the golden era.

[1426] We are.

[1427] It's like the roaring 20s of TV.

[1428] It is.

[1429] People look back on this era and be like, oh, they were having so, everyone was having so much fun.

[1430] they were just sitting on their couches forever.

[1431] Forever.

[1432] So he says joie de vivre.

[1433] And no one knew what that meant.

[1434] But it's a French phrase, often used in English, to express a cheerful enjoyment of life and exultation of spirit.

[1435] No. No. Joie de vivre.

[1436] I think it's very fitting that we have such a loose understanding of the word opaque when that in a way encapsulates what the word means.

[1437] God, the irony.

[1438] It is so ironic.

[1439] You cut the irony with a knife in here.

[1440] Okay, New York Water, all right?

[1441] There was this article about New York Water.

[1442] Okay.

[1443] And America's Test Kitchen did some testing on, is it really the water in these bagels?

[1444] Oh, okay, good.

[1445] That's causing the bagels to taste so good.

[1446] So.

[1447] I don't know if I believe it.

[1448] I'll just go ahead and skip all this and say, no. Okay, that was my hunch.

[1449] Okay.

[1450] Tell us why.

[1451] They just say no. Okay, I'll read this part.

[1452] The cooks at America's Test Kitchen whipped up a batch of bagels with water from Brooklyn and a batch with water from Brookline, Massachusetts.

[1453] That's kind of funny that they did that.

[1454] It is.

[1455] Similar names.

[1456] And confusing.

[1457] A blind side -by -side tasting proved no difference at all.

[1458] Next, they sent samples of both waters they used in their bagels to the lap.

[1459] They found that there was indeed a difference in pH levels.

[1460] New York water has lower levels of calcium, carbonate, and magnesium.

[1461] museum.

[1462] This explains why in other metropolitan locales with harder water, the bagels come out tougher.

[1463] The hardness of the water toughens up the gluten.

[1464] Well, that's not good for you.

[1465] You need loose gluten.

[1466] Gluten's already tough enough for me. I don't need a toughen.

[1467] You want it to be as loose as possible.

[1468] Lastly, America's Test Kitchen tested the pH levels in the bagels after they'd fermented.

[1469] Oh, yes, the recipe leaves the bagels out overnight to ferment.

[1470] This is in fact actually one of the reasons New York bagels are so great.

[1471] Oh, they're leaving them out on the curb overnight.

[1472] To ferment.

[1473] And the difference was minuscule.

[1474] Okay.

[1475] Okay.

[1476] All that information led them to conclude that New York Water can't take the credit for the finished product of the bagel.

[1477] So what is it then that makes New York bagels so glorious?

[1478] According to America's Test Kitchen, it's all about the recipe.

[1479] They have one here that I could click on.

[1480] Hmm.

[1481] Why don't you make me some bagels?

[1482] Okay.

[1483] Well, learn that recipe and make me some bagels, woman.

[1484] I'm busy.

[1485] I made you some chicken wings.

[1486] That's true.

[1487] I made you a lot of Chicken wings.

[1488] Okay, I'm going to say that the making of the bagels is probably 10 times harder than the making of the chicken wings.

[1489] It has to be because I've never done anything easier than made those chicken wings.

[1490] A bowl of cereal has more steps than those in the air fryer.

[1491] You just threw it in the air fryer and threw some seasoning on and closed it.

[1492] Well, a little olive oil spray, but yeah.

[1493] Okay.

[1494] And then 20 minutes later, the best wings we've ever had.

[1495] Tasty.

[1496] We've gone too long without a batch of wings.

[1497] It's been a week.

[1498] Wow, yeah, we should have that.

[1499] And then did we already tell me about the tasty treat we've been eating?

[1500] It's also with the air friar.

[1501] Fried Oreos.

[1502] Oh, my God.

[1503] But they're covered in Crescent Roll.

[1504] I mean, it's the best.

[1505] Mom prepares them.

[1506] Treat I've ever had in my life.

[1507] And you and I sit there, like children, waiting for her to pull them out of the air fryer.

[1508] And then we panic when we see the plate.

[1509] Oh, my God.

[1510] There's never enough on that fucking plate.

[1511] I think it's the best dessert I've ever had.

[1512] Yeah.

[1513] I really think it might be.

[1514] Because the Oreo becomes.

[1515] soft inside the whole thing.

[1516] It becomes almost like twinky filling.

[1517] But it's still intact.

[1518] It's weird because it's still intact.

[1519] Like it looks.

[1520] But it's been liquefied.

[1521] It's just been softified.

[1522] It's just been softified.

[1523] It's not liquid.

[1524] No, it's softified.

[1525] It's just soft.

[1526] But it's still like intact in its same shape inside the crescent roll.

[1527] It becomes gooey.

[1528] It becomes gooey.

[1529] It's so good.

[1530] I want it right now.

[1531] Yeah, of course.

[1532] Oh my God.

[1533] Okay.

[1534] Okay, you time.

[1535] Imagine splashing some New York tap water all over it.

[1536] Apparently would do nothing.

[1537] Speaking of the opposite of this.

[1538] Okay.

[1539] Atkins.

[1540] Oh, Atkins diet?

[1541] Sure, sure.

[1542] That I was on.

[1543] Uh -huh.

[1544] You said it's the opposite of fat -free.

[1545] It's to eat fat and then to go into ketosis.

[1546] The Atkins diet is a low -carb fat diet.

[1547] So those Crescent rolls are not going to be good on the Atkins.

[1548] No, no, no, no. I think you've got to keep your total carbon take, at least when I was doing it in the 90s, to like under 20 grams a day, which is brutal.

[1549] It's so hard to do that.

[1550] Wow.

[1551] To get into ketosis.

[1552] And we had these little sticks.

[1553] We'd go pee on.

[1554] What?

[1555] We and I would take these little sticks.

[1556] They were in this little, like, kind of a prescription bottle.

[1557] And you'd take them out and you go wee, we or tinkle on the sticks.

[1558] And they turn a color to tell you if you're in ketosis.

[1559] And it would be kind of, we'd be competitive about it.

[1560] Oh, yeah, that really is scientific, yeah.

[1561] How would it show up in your urine?

[1562] Because your urine is measuring how many ketones.

[1563] You know, like the strip can, if it has X amount of ketones, it'll turn it one color, and if it has, yeah, it is scientific.

[1564] You can tell whether you're in ketosis or not by using a urine analysis.

[1565] Okay.

[1566] But you were competitive about it.

[1567] Yeah, of course.

[1568] We both wanted to be in ketosis.

[1569] Sure.

[1570] Was Hugh Lorry a successful crime novelist in England before acting?

[1571] he does have books okay what are some did you get some titles oh wait he also has blues albums oh of course he does let them talk and didn't it rain if ever there was a cosmopolitan man oh my god it's you lorry but let them talk was 2011 and didn't it rain was 2013 not that long ago no blues albums seven years and nine years respectively wow and nice fast math and then he authored the novel the gun says seller in 96.

[1572] 96.

[1573] See, that's pre -house.

[1574] Wow.

[1575] Wow.

[1576] Wow.

[1577] What a guy.

[1578] 96 of the Olympics, the year of the Olympics.

[1579] Oh, in Atlanta.

[1580] That's right.

[1581] With the explosion.

[1582] I forget about that part.

[1583] I leave that part out.

[1584] That's smart.

[1585] I mean, they remember the Romanian gymnasts and how I wanted to go there.

[1586] I can't believe you didn't go.

[1587] It was in your backyard.

[1588] Romania?

[1589] No, Dingus, the Atlanta Olympics.

[1590] Oh, I was living in Tennessee at the time.

[1591] Well, it was that three hours of a while?

[1592] Oh, they weren't going to take me there.

[1593] Okay.

[1594] I'm surprised.

[1595] They did most everything you wanted.

[1596] No, no, no. They would never have done something like that.

[1597] Tell the story about you cooking.

[1598] Milkshakes.

[1599] Yeah, I guess you weren't cooking.

[1600] It was, it was about 2 a .m. I was having a sleepover with Callie.

[1601] Two a. And I was over.

[1602] And I decided I really needed us to have milkshakes.

[1603] So I went down to the kitchen.

[1604] It's a very open floor plan of a house.

[1605] the sound really travels.

[1606] Sure.

[1607] And I decided to throw some ice cream, milk, chocolate syrup into a blender.

[1608] Then I blended.

[1609] Yeah.

[1610] And it took a while to blend because that's a thick ice cream, you know.

[1611] And then my mom yelled from her bedroom, like, what are you doing?

[1612] And then I just screamed at her.

[1613] I'm making a milkshake!

[1614] You were very hot about it.

[1615] And I was not going to not have that milkshake.

[1616] And Kelly was astounded by how you were yelling to mom at 2 a .m. She's seen some stuff.

[1617] She's really seen some real stuff.

[1618] Some dark patches?

[1619] I also once kept a hot dog in my room for weeks.

[1620] Oh, okay.

[1621] I used to eat in my bedroom a lot.

[1622] Sure.

[1623] And then I wouldn't want to take the play down, of course.

[1624] And in that case, I guess I didn't finish my hot dog.

[1625] Right, you got full.

[1626] I got really full quick because I was tiny.

[1627] And I left it.

[1628] and then she came over and that hot dog had been there for like weeks.

[1629] Oh boy.

[1630] Did it have a smell?

[1631] Not that I recall.

[1632] Okay.

[1633] You probably got used to it in the way that I couldn't smell that Brie and I's apartment smelled horrendous like an ashtray.

[1634] Oh, right.

[1635] I couldn't smell it.

[1636] I didn't know.

[1637] Yeah, you get accustomed.

[1638] I get scared of that with smells.

[1639] Uh -huh, as you should.

[1640] Well, do you remember being a kid and you would go to friends' houses?

[1641] And the second you want, like every friend of mine's house had a very distinct smell.

[1642] Yes.

[1643] Some pleasing, some unpleasing.

[1644] I know, and I think about that all the time about my own house, that it has the same thing.

[1645] But those people definitely didn't know that their house stunk.

[1646] Your house smells good, though.

[1647] I can tell you.

[1648] I'm scared.

[1649] At least by my, what I find pleasing and not pleasing.

[1650] It smells nice in there.

[1651] Oh, God.

[1652] Well, I...

[1653] Despite the fact that you don't run the tightest ship, per se.

[1654] Like, visually.

[1655] If you were to guess how it smelled in there, you might go like, well, it might smell in here.

[1656] But then you take a big - It's gorgeous in there.

[1657] It's just not, it's just messy.

[1658] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1659] That's what I'm saying.

[1660] If you just saw a snapshot of it and they said rank, you know, rank this zero to 10 and what you think it smells, you know, you might be in the fives.

[1661] You think?

[1662] Well, you know, just like.

[1663] Is it like I'm leaving hot dogs?

[1664] Like undies and stuff on the floor and, you know.

[1665] Well, no. Me undies on the chandelier, food everywhere, you know.

[1666] This is all lies.

[1667] All of this is lies.

[1668] Trash overflowing from the waste bins.

[1669] No, none of that's true.

[1670] None of that's true.

[1671] It's just messy.

[1672] They're just like boxes on the floor.

[1673] And you'll get closed piles.

[1674] You like to make clothes piles, right?

[1675] Like little termite mounds.

[1676] That's all I'm saying is if you just saw a photo of the room with some dishes and three or four.

[1677] Right, three or four clothing termite mounds.

[1678] You might just go, hmm, I bet it might.

[1679] Oh, but you know what?

[1680] It smells nice in here.

[1681] It's a nice.

[1682] Okay, listen, do you think just based on piles of clothes that people think something smells?

[1683] Yeah, because you think, oh, that person doesn't clean up, you know.

[1684] But they're clean clothes.

[1685] But you would never know that looking at the picture.

[1686] It looks like a big mound of dirty clothes on my bed.

[1687] Or you're living room.

[1688] Sometimes they're on my bed.

[1689] Yeah, and then there's some, sometimes there's piles in the living room.

[1690] Well, that's if they're like dry clean and I haven't hung them up.

[1691] So they're really clean.

[1692] Yeah, but again, you've got to imagine you're just looking at a photo.

[1693] I don't know you.

[1694] I don't know anything about it.

[1695] I just see piles of clothes in a few different locations.

[1696] And you would imagine, oh, it probably stinks in there a little bit.

[1697] Oh.

[1698] But it doesn't.

[1699] That's the good news.

[1700] God.

[1701] In this case, the shan't judge your book by the cover because it smells delightful in there.

[1702] I'm getting defensive.

[1703] You can feel yourself getting defensive.

[1704] Yeah, because I don't have anyone to come full my clothes.

[1705] You laugh.

[1706] Okay, you should not laugh.

[1707] You have someone who folds your clothes.

[1708] That's the truth.

[1709] You know how I know you're wrong is that when I was your age, I didn't have anyone that folded my clothes.

[1710] Well, were you doing as much as I'm doing?

[1711] Yes, I was.

[1712] You were at my age?

[1713] Yes, I was at any time owed two scripts to studios and I was acting full time.

[1714] At 32, I was working.

[1715] 80 hours a week.

[1716] Okay.

[1717] I was still selling scripts and I was writing TV shows and I was on one full time.

[1718] Yeah.

[1719] Anyway, well, it is messy.

[1720] I have not been able to balance that part of my life and work.

[1721] I've not.

[1722] I could be less judgmental about it all.

[1723] It doesn't bother me one bit.

[1724] Yeah.

[1725] I'm only just going on you see a photo.

[1726] That's it.

[1727] You see a photo.

[1728] You're flipping through better homes and gardens and one of the homes has piles of clothes and you just, you know, and then you're ass.

[1729] Do you think it smells great in there or less good?

[1730] All right, all right, all right.

[1731] I hear you.

[1732] I also would have never left food in my room for three weeks.

[1733] I'm just a different kind of person that way, which is not, one's not better than the other.

[1734] It's just we are different a little bit that way.

[1735] Sure.

[1736] Yeah.

[1737] That's all.

[1738] That's all?

[1739] Yeah, all for gosh, Jad.

[1740] I want them back real bad.

[1741] Yeah, and watch Central Park.

[1742] You got to watch and Avenue 5.

[1743] Do we know when Central Park?

[1744] Yeah, Avenue 5 is so fun.

[1745] Yeah.

[1746] Do we know when Central Park starts?

[1747] I know, but it has to be soon.

[1748] Summer 2020.

[1749] Summer 2020.

[1750] Summer loving.

[1751] Ooh, that's some exciting to look forward to.

[1752] Exciting to look forward to.

[1753] Yeah.

[1754] For the summertime.

[1755] Do you think they'll get rid of that song?

[1756] Oh.

[1757] We made out under the dark.

[1758] No. The grace song.

[1759] Tell me more.

[1760] Tell me more.

[1761] Did he hold you down?

[1762] Doesn't it get a little rave?

[1763] Just that?

[1764] No, but something like, oh, tell me more.

[1765] Did she put a. up a fight.

[1766] Oh, yeah.

[1767] Yeah, that's true.

[1768] Yeah.

[1769] I don't think we'll get rid of it, but.

[1770] But we'll have to do some explaining to our children when they hear it.

[1771] That's right.

[1772] So here's the thing.

[1773] Back in, in 82, I was expected that a guy would pursue until the gal had to put up a fight.

[1774] And we don't do it that way anymore.

[1775] No, we don't.

[1776] We're all grateful for it.

[1777] That's right.

[1778] All right.

[1779] Love you.

[1780] Love you.

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