After a Suspected Chemical Attack, a Syrian Tells His Story

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.

[1] This is the Daily.

[2] Today, the U .S. says that the suspected chemical weapons attack on the rebel -held town of Duma earlier this month was part of a military push by the Syrian government to break the will of the people still living there.

[3] We speak to one of them.

[4] It's Monday, April 23rd.

[5] The first responders and the firefighters can't get to the fires around the area because of the heavy shang.

[6] It's very dangerous to home around the streets.

[7] Warplanes, Russian warplanes, the regime's airstrikes.

[8] The shang haven't stopped in essence.

[9] It's been going on for about 24 hours and I don't think that the situation the actual picture is getting out there.

[10] This is a big problem.

[11] Mahmoud Wadwani grew up in Duma.

[12] Two weeks ago, when government forces moved to retake the city, Mahmood was there.

[13] Yeah, at that time, the regime was launching a very strong assault and heavy shelling on Duma City.

[14] They started the shilling with the airstrikes and artillery, and it got escalated gradually.

[15] My house got hit.

[16] We were in the basement, and my house got hit with the land -to -land missile.

[17] We heard the noise, and the building got chocked for a second or something.

[18] Can I ask you, what was it like when your house was hit with this missile?

[19] Did you hear it coming?

[20] How much warning did you have?

[21] No, no time.

[22] We were in the basement, like I said.

[23] So the missile hit just three floors.

[24] above us, if that makes sense.

[25] We tried to put out the fire, but we were helpless.

[26] We couldn't do anything.

[27] We tried to control the fire and, you know, to have it in one room or something.

[28] But that failed to, when a fire starts, there is no firefighters to put it out.

[29] So it kind of just spreads to other areas, nearby apartments and such things.

[30] At that night, I actually was standing on the rubble of my own house.

[31] It was burned down that night.

[32] When I went out of the basement, I saw a big amount of destruction, something we did not have in our minds, something we could not have imagined.

[33] The connections were cut off the city by the regime, so I was afraid that we might be slaughtered without anyone knowing what's happening.

[34] So I started recording what's happening.

[35] I started recording the destruction and the fires that were around me. People are bombing water manually.

[36] Moving on the streets is now very dangerous.

[37] So you have to run to the nearest basement.

[38] Can you tell me about Duma as you remember it before all this when you were growing up there?

[39] Before the revolution started What I remember from back then It was just going to school And playing on the field And things like that And there was a park Right outside our building And I remember how nice The people were to each other How beautiful it was to play a little football For example So you play soccer Yeah back then Mm -hmm.

[40] Were you good at it?

[41] Not really.

[42] But it was a very enjoyable game for me running around and the team playing.

[43] I really enjoyed that.

[44] So I wasn't the best, but I did okay.

[45] When was the last time you were able to go out into a park?

[46] That was a long, long time ago.

[47] When did things start to change in Duma?

[48] Duma participated in the demonstration since the beginning.

[49] I think it was about 15 of April, that's what I think, in 2011.

[50] Yeah, it felt hopeful.

[51] And this is what many of us now know is the Arab Spring.

[52] That was happening in Duma in 2011.

[53] Yeah.

[54] How old were you in 2011 when these protests were starting?

[55] 13.

[56] So did you participate in them, or were you just watching them from home?

[57] Yeah, I participated.

[58] After the first violent attack that happened on the civilians in these demonstrations, an act of violence that killed, as I remember, about 11 of Duma's own people.

[59] That's when I knew exactly that I have to participate in these peaceful acts, to act and demand for human rights.

[60] Did the protests continue despite the attacks?

[61] Yeah, it continued for a long time.

[62] The regime escalated everything into a war.

[63] When this started, it was nothing like a war.

[64] What would be a typical day for you once the rebellion was underway and you were participating in it?

[65] What was it like?

[66] My day routine was to go to school, and after school I'd ask my friends about the place of the...

[67] today's demonstration where it will be and then if anything is asked of me like if I have to film the demonstration, you know if no one is filming the demonstration and gather with the other activists and start the demonstration, that's all.

[68] Then the security forces would come and sometimes start shooting, sometimes just throw smoke grenades or That sounds pretty terrifying to have the security services come to a protest and every day this would happen as a routine.

[69] You would go searching for a protest.

[70] You would participate in the protest, tape the protest, and then the security services would come and crack down on it.

[71] Yeah, almost every day.

[72] What would you say when the security services arrived?

[73] What would you say to them?

[74] We don't say anything.

[75] We just run.

[76] When the security forces reach the place of the demonstrations, we do.

[77] know that they're going to attack and if they're going to do a horrible thing, they might be firing on us.

[78] Did any of your friends get shot?

[79] Yeah.

[80] Did any of them die because of that?

[81] Yeah.

[82] Some of the friends that used to participate in the demonstrations got killed by these security forces.

[83] If you had to estimate how many people close to you died that way.

[84] How many would you say?

[85] Well, it's going to be a big number.

[86] My estimation would be about 30.

[87] 30 close friend.

[88] Died at the hands of the state.

[89] Yeah.

[90] Can I ask, do you consider yourself to be a rebel?

[91] Do you consider yourself to be a rebel?

[92] Do you consider yourself to be a member of the Free Syrian Army, or do you consider yourself to be a journalist?

[93] How do you consider yourself?

[94] Well, I did not hold any guns in the past eight years.

[95] I was a civilian activist, if you will.

[96] I haven't given myself any title in this matter.

[97] I'm just a student who is doing what he is supposed to be doing in time like that.

[98] Did you expect that the government would, come to Duma for a major attack, that it would try to completely retake the city and bombard it.

[99] Well, the bombardment is a very obvious thing that we were expecting.

[100] We were moving in, not just expecting.

[101] It was happening.

[102] They just escalated the bombardment and escalated the ground assault.

[103] I'm going to do it.

[104] Hadith, this is a woman of Duma, lying on the floor, lying on the floor.

[105] This is an underground shelter here.

[106] What you see around their mouth appears to be foam.

[107] That's a sign of a chemical attack.

[108] Why do you think that the regime used chemical weapons on the town.

[109] After weeks of shelling, why use chemical weapons all of a sudden?

[110] It was the only weapon left that they did not use to bring down the city to their control.

[111] I think that they just reached the point of using something more powerful to bring the city down.

[112] That's why they used chemical weapon.

[113] If you know that chemical weapons might be used, is there any precaution you can take?

[114] Is there anything you can do, you just have to resign yourself to the possibility that it might happen and that there's nothing you can do about it?

[115] Well, because of the sea, you can't take any precautions.

[116] The only thing that you can do is going out of the basement and up to the roof of the building because the chemical weapons, these gas are heavier than air.

[117] They fall down and they come into the basement.

[118] The only thing you could do is going above and trying to get to the the roof, but how are you supposed to do that when there is heavy shelling around you?

[119] Right, you're in an impossible position.

[120] You need to be in the basement to spare yourself from the shelling, and that keeps you from getting up to the roof in case there's a chemical attack.

[121] Yeah, which is the only thing you can do to protect yourself from the chemical attack.

[122] Frankly, even though it's not strange for the regime to use chemical weapons, I did not see it coming.

[123] So you were surprised that the government would take that risk?

[124] Yeah, not because it's a strange thing for them to do, but because I did not think that the world is going to allow another chemical attack to happen again.

[125] So what did you choose to do after the chemical attack?

[126] Well, I chose to leave because I don't stand the idea of having to live under the government's control.

[127] How did you actually leave if there was a siege around the town?

[128] How did you get out?

[129] The deal was made between the Russians and the armed rebel groups.

[130] The deal was to bring buses into Duma and give everyone who wants to leave the chance to leave safely.

[131] That is for the civilians and for the armed rebels.

[132] And everyone who wants to stay under the government's control will have that.

[133] chance too.

[134] So you get on a bus and you leave your hometown?

[135] Yeah.

[136] It was frustrating.

[137] It was it was very hard.

[138] Where are you now?

[139] You're obviously in a you're in a crowded space with other families.

[140] Where have you landed?

[141] The buses went through the government -controlled area and into the rebel -controlled area in Aleppo suburbs.

[142] The reason in the room is crowded because we are multiple families living in one apartment, which is great circumstances, if compared to the people who are in the camps.

[143] We saw how hard it was for the people in camps living in tents, the people who were in the same convoy and another convoy that left Duma recently.

[144] Do you think that you'll ever get back to Duma?

[145] That's the scariest idea that comes to me of my mind.

[146] Scary because you want to go back and can't, or scary because if you go back, it might be destroyed?

[147] Scary because I probably won't be able to get back.

[148] I mean, obviously, I can't go back to an area that is under the government's control.

[149] It's very risky because I'm in the military age.

[150] They might drag me to the asset forces and have me attack other people.

[151] people who are in rebel -controlled areas.

[152] It's risky because I have civil activities that might be used against me. I might be taken prisoners and I might be tortured.

[153] All of these things make me think that I won't be able to live under a government -controlled area ever.

[154] It's not our streets now, the situation in Dumas is terrifying now.

[155] What we're witnessing is a lot more horrifying than what we witnessed before.

[156] But we all different things.

[157] The world is not bringing traffic and attention now to what's happening.

[158] And the reason to that is most of the photographers are out of the area now.

[159] And the connections are cut off and it's very difficult to get to get.

[160] to get what's happening out to the war.

[161] So it's now everyone's job, whether you're a Syrian person or just a human being.

[162] It's now your responsibility to amplify our voices and to show the world what's happening in human.

[163] We started this conversation with you describing a video that you took on the streets, the risks that you took, to record that video so that the world could see what was happening.

[164] You ended that video by saying you wanted people to do something.

[165] So how does it feel now?

[166] And what do you...

[167] It feels like a betrayal.

[168] Every step of this timeline, I believed in journalism.

[169] I believed in getting the world out.

[170] I believed in showing the suffering so it might be ended.

[171] by someone who cares.

[172] When I filmed that video, that was the goal I was aiming for.

[173] And I was hoping that someone would listen.

[174] So when a chemical attack happens, after you were demanding the world to stop the shelling, it's the exact opposite of what you were helping the world to do.

[175] It feels like a betrayal, like I said.

[176] When you look back on when these protests, started in Duma back in 2011 as part of the Arab Spring and how hopeful that all was that there might be change.

[177] And now when you realize where things are, does it seem like the rebellion was worth it, that it was worth trying to fight the government given everything that's happened?

[178] That's kind of a hard question.

[179] At that time, it wasn't being imagined that it would come to this point we were hoping for a better country we're hoping that we'll reach a country that respects human rights and because we did not achieve that goal for me personally that's not a reason to not do it my wood thank you very much I know you're in a you're in a crowded room and we've talked to you for a long time you've been through a lot and we're really grateful for your time and your thoughtfulness.

[180] Thank you.

[181] I'm happy to do it.

[182] Over the weekend, chemical arms inspectors said they had finally been able to visit the site of the suspected attack in Duma and collected samples for analysis.

[183] The inspectors had been blocked from the site earlier in the week, raising suspicions from the West that Syria and its Russian allies, which now control Duma, were scrubbing the area of evidence.

[184] President Bashar al -Assad has denied the accusations and denied the attack itself, calling it a hoax, or saying it was the rebels who used chemical weapons, and then blamed it on Syrian forces.

[185] We'll be right back.

[186] Here's what else you need to know today.

[187] The Islamic State is claiming credit for a suicide bomb that killed at least 57 people and wounded 119 more.

[188] in the capital of Afghanistan on Sunday.

[189] The bomb targeted Afghans as they lined up at a government office in Kabul to register to vote, the latest attempt by ISIS to discourage voting in upcoming legislative elections.

[190] Although ISIS has lost much of its land in Afghanistan, after years of U .S.-led airstrikes, it continues to try to undermine the government there with terror attacks in cities like Kabul.

[191] That's it for the daily.

[192] I'm Michael Barbaro.

[193] See you tomorrow.