Conan O'Brien

[0] Hello, everybody.

[1] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2] I'm Dan Rather.

[3] And Monica Padman sits across from me, per yuge.

[4] She's adorned in purple.

[5] Mm -hmm.

[6] She has a lot of weapons at her disposal, ways for her to make her beautiful brown skin pop.

[7] And I always find orange for you as a real, gives you a real pop.

[8] Oh, I don't wear orange very much.

[9] You don't, but when you do wear orange, I'm quick to comment on it, right?

[10] Yeah, I guess so.

[11] Hmm.

[12] Yeah.

[13] Let's think about this.

[14] Yeah, I think so.

[15] I really think about if I have anything orange.

[16] I don't think I do.

[17] You do.

[18] You do.

[19] Well, maybe we're not unlike, this is regular with me as getting in arguments about what color is what color.

[20] Because I see.

[21] But just.

[22] You're talking about tomato.

[23] Tomato red.

[24] Red, really.

[25] Well, okay.

[26] Yeah.

[27] So yeah, you were in a tomato blouse the other day, right?

[28] The t -shirt?

[29] And I made a real to -do about how it was complimenting your skin tone.

[30] Well, this is weirdly appropriate because our guest has a very distinct level of melaton.

[31] Redness.

[32] Melanin, melanin, not melatonin.

[33] And that puts you to sleep.

[34] Melanin, which dictates how dark your skin is.

[35] Well, he has a defective.

[36] Well, hold on now.

[37] Look, that's what it is.

[38] a defective gene.

[39] No, I think it was an evolutionary answer to getting less vitamin D in northern climates.

[40] MCR1 gene.

[41] You could argue that it's a, it's defective.

[42] It's defective.

[43] According to my research, yes.

[44] Okay.

[45] You could argue he's more evolved than you and I. Well, he's smarter than all of us.

[46] That's true.

[47] You and I combined, he's a very smart guy.

[48] He's also a hysterical guy.

[49] and my favorite side of him, which is the least known side of him, is his thoughtful side and his serious side because he is a uniquely disciplined person, an incredibly educated person and a very hardworking person.

[50] And I was exposed to that side of him on Howard Stern's show, which you'll hear about.

[51] Conan O 'Brien, who I have my own fun passed with, if you've listened to this show, because I was momentarily off that show.

[52] show and then I regained favor over there and done it a bunch of time since and we're we're chummy and he regales us with his whole story and it's really fascinating yeah but before we get to conan i do want to announce yet another live performance from the gang at armchair expert we're going to be in los angeles we're going to have a live show at the theater at the ace hotel which is a gloriously restored, cool, old venue.

[53] That's on January 17th, 15 days after my birthday.

[54] We can call it a birthday show.

[55] Tickets are on sale tomorrow, Tuesday, November 27th, at 10 a .m. Local time.

[56] That's PST, Pacific Time.

[57] Go to our website if you want to get tickets for this at www.

[58] Armchairexpertpod .com.

[59] And we hope to see you in our home of Los Angeles.

[60] So please enjoy Conan O 'Brien.

[61] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[62] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[63] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[64] First of all, what a role rehearsal.

[65] So I think I've done your show in the teens.

[66] at this point?

[67] You've done the show many times.

[68] I call you a money in the pocket guest.

[69] Oh, that's a great.

[70] I'm being serious.

[71] Thank you.

[72] I love that description.

[73] You are, um, actually it's called money in the bank.

[74] Money in the pocket's not as good.

[75] That sounds more like a, uh, like a 20s English thing.

[76] Yeah, you know, money in the, money in the pocket.

[77] It's efficient.

[78] You first, you have to take it to the bank, then you have to put in your pocket.

[79] This is straight to the pocket.

[80] This is, you was right where you want it.

[81] There's a lot of handsy.

[82] Rick is holding her.

[83] Oh, yeah.

[84] I have to hold mine.

[85] Hold your microphone.

[86] That's, look like Rudy Valley.

[87] It's an old reference.

[88] No one listening to a podcast will get it.

[89] But what I'm going to, before we even launch into this, what I'm going to say, and I'm going to try to out maneuver you with a compliment.

[90] Are we really, are we rolling yet?

[91] We're always wrong.

[92] ABR.

[93] Always be rolling.

[94] Always be rolling.

[95] Always be rolling.

[96] If you remember, I sent you one of the most sincere emails I think I've ever sent in my life, and it was after hearing you on Stern.

[97] And it was, It's in my top four interviews I've ever heard.

[98] I fucking love that interview.

[99] And even though I've been out in real life with you a couple times, and of course you're quite sincere when we're out in real life, to hear you so sincere on Stern was such a different side of you that I had never really heard and I loved it.

[100] Yeah.

[101] Yeah.

[102] And this show is boring and sad.

[103] So feel no compulsion to be entertaining or funny.

[104] Okay.

[105] Done.

[106] I do, when asked sincere questions, I do answer them.

[107] Great.

[108] How long is your penis?

[109] You know, flaccid.

[110] Oh, wait, flaccid.

[111] Zos, of course.

[112] No, that's not good.

[113] Go back.

[114] If you hadn't said flaccid, I'd have gone for it.

[115] Mine expands exponentially.

[116] Let's just put it that way.

[117] It's like the Hulk of penises.

[118] I mean, seriously, I am 43.

[119] I've been with the penis for a long, long time, and I am regularly blown away with what a bizarre organ it is.

[120] It's a strange one.

[121] It is.

[122] If your hand just tripled in size, it's almost like a superpower if you think about it, although no good generally comes from it.

[123] It is a freaky organ.

[124] It will go away.

[125] If you look at evolution, it's an appendage that's going away.

[126] A vestigial appendage.

[127] It's going to go away.

[128] There's a better way for us to have this transaction of sperm and egg than a penile shaft.

[129] that hangs off of your abdomen and doesn't really belong there.

[130] So it's going to go away in the next six million years.

[131] Yeah, it's a cumbersome, it's just a lot of business between your legs.

[132] You're a cyclist.

[133] Yeah.

[134] That's a new hobby of yours or like a few years old.

[135] I know, I've been doing that for a long time.

[136] I actually do it a little less now.

[137] Now I do more running and swimming because it's less likely I'll get killed.

[138] Yeah, we talked about that.

[139] When I saw you, you were telling me how I'm doing it you were.

[140] I've been into cycling for a long.

[141] time.

[142] I have, as you know, I don't think this comes across on TV.

[143] I'm not, you see, you're giggling.

[144] No, I just like you so much.

[145] This doesn't come across on TV, but I am very long in the leg.

[146] I'm tall, but I'm like 80 % leg.

[147] So for some reason, when I got on a bike and I start going, I can go forever.

[148] It's a great exercise for me. And I really enjoy it.

[149] And I love the mechanics of bikes.

[150] I love the whole thing.

[151] I love But, yeah, in Los Angeles, it's really tricky.

[152] It is, but do you know, I just got my first road bike like a month ago.

[153] I impulse bought it.

[154] And what I immediately like about it is unlike running where I'm bored out of my mind, there is a fair level of danger when cycling in L .A. So it requires your full attention.

[155] And I do enjoy that aspect.

[156] Do you plan your route so that you're no?

[157] In fact, I weirdly, I'm lazy in that.

[158] I go, I'll just.

[159] ride kind of paralleling the subway system.

[160] So if at any point I'm like, I can't go any further.

[161] I'll just get on the subway and come back, which I've done.

[162] Wow.

[163] I just ride till I'm out of gas and then get on the subway.

[164] You got to really be careful in this town.

[165] In this day of people texting while they're driving, they don't care.

[166] And if you're killed on a bicycle, no one feels sorry for you.

[167] They just think everyone at your funeral is like, what a dick.

[168] He was on a bike in a dense urban area.

[169] And it's, have you ever been to, if you go to the funeral of someone who died while skydiving?

[170] Right.

[171] No one's crying.

[172] That's right.

[173] Or like, you're just cruelly laughing.

[174] Or cardiac arrest from crack.

[175] Yes.

[176] There's no, oh, what a loss.

[177] You're right.

[178] That's always present in my mind.

[179] If I'm badly hurt on the bike.

[180] Tear free funeral.

[181] Tear free funeral, my fault.

[182] Yeah.

[183] Even in heaven, no one's talking to me. And don't you feel like, it's very weird.

[184] I genuinely juggled or wrestle with this, which is I do have kids and I have things I love doing.

[185] And I do, I think like, God, what a dick.

[186] If you're at that funeral and I have two little kids, everyone's going to be like, what a fucking dick.

[187] He had to ride a motorcycle.

[188] He didn't get enough motorcycle riding in the 30 years before he had kids, you know?

[189] We've talked about this.

[190] You still ride a motorcycle.

[191] I do.

[192] And you're just going to ride a motorcycle the rest of your life.

[193] It might be a short life.

[194] No, but you can choose, you can choose not to split lanes in dense traffic.

[195] You can make smart decisions on a motorcycle.

[196] I'd argue that's more dangerous.

[197] What?

[198] Not splitting lanes.

[199] Really?

[200] Yes, because if you look at states without lane splitting laws, a very high percentage of the fatalities are people getting rear -ended by other motorists who are texting.

[201] They don't fucking see the stop motorcycle and then they blow through it.

[202] So if you're always moving faster than the traffic, you at least, you have some kind of control over getting rear -ended minimally.

[203] Oh.

[204] Do you like that, explain?

[205] Yeah, you buy.

[206] That's what I told my wife.

[207] I buy that.

[208] I think mostly what you have going for you is you've been, I think you've been riding a motorcycle since you are two.

[209] Roughly.

[210] Roughly.

[211] I think you came out on some kind of motorized bicycle.

[212] I did.

[213] My dad took me home on the gas tank of an endurance.

[214] You shot out of the vaginal canal like evil can evils.

[215] That's right.

[216] And landed on the other side of a canyon.

[217] I, yeah.

[218] So you know what you're doing.

[219] You'll be fine.

[220] I'll be fine.

[221] Now, what kind of parents did you have?

[222] I do have.

[223] They're still alive.

[224] Okay.

[225] But I guess I mean in childhood.

[226] Because they could have evolved.

[227] Maybe they're really laid back now.

[228] They are more laid back than they were.

[229] They're Irish Catholic.

[230] They're very Irish Catholic.

[231] If you, what's the most Irish Catholic you could be?

[232] Yeah.

[233] My parents took.

[234] and take their Catholicism seriously.

[235] And so I grew up, they're very funny, and I love them to death.

[236] But it's funny in some ways, I think, they adopted some of the mores that their parents and their grandparents handed to them and brought it into the 20th century sort of unfiltered.

[237] So in some ways, I feel like I grew up in olden times.

[238] Does that make sense to you?

[239] Sure, sure.

[240] For example, super traditional.

[241] Well, there's a fear of alcoholism, and for good reason, if you're hardcore Irish Catholic.

[242] So I grew up in a dry house.

[243] Oh, really?

[244] Yeah, no alcohol.

[245] Okay.

[246] No alcohol.

[247] I didn't think I've told anybody this.

[248] I grew up in a house where there's no alcohol.

[249] I've never seen my parents hold a glass of alcohol.

[250] And in my life, I think at my wedding, I saw my dad, like, holding a glass of champagne, but he probably didn't drink it.

[251] Right.

[252] And because of that, I did not drink until I was 26 years old.

[253] Really?

[254] Yeah.

[255] And how are you as a drinker?

[256] You're fine with it?

[257] I'm fine with it.

[258] I am a, if I get, I think my, I don't do hard spirits.

[259] I'm not a guy who goes up to the bar and says, give me a, I don't even know what people are talking about when they say, give me a whiskey gimlet with a jub, I don't know what they're talking about.

[260] Is that a thing?

[261] Rusty now.

[262] Oh, yeah.

[263] It's delicious, by the way.

[264] I'm just asking Monica if she knows what the drinks are.

[265] Monica's still very much in the game.

[266] I still feel.

[267] Like she's 31 and she lives in Hollywood and she's an actor.

[268] So yeah, she has like, what were we?

[269] The Moscow mules.

[270] She loves a cute little cup and it looks frosty.

[271] I will try those drinks every now and then if I'm, I need to sometimes be in a location.

[272] I was shooting a travel show in Berlin staying in a hotel there and they had Moscow mules and a copper cup and I had the Moscow mule and it was it was pleasant but I am mostly stick to wine oh wine yeah I stick to wine yes you do you really like and I am I don't I'm okay with it I don't have an addiction issue I very much like to be in control I don't like the way you feel when you have too much when I get a I guess a buzz on I become, I think I'm a nice person.

[273] I become three times nicer.

[274] Yeah.

[275] Which is very interesting.

[276] So I am very solicitous of people's feelings.

[277] If I've had like three or four glasses of red one, I, and this is, I'm being honestly, honestly, sincere with you, I would want to help you in any way, Dax.

[278] Uh -huh.

[279] Is there any way I can help you?

[280] I like you.

[281] I'm not an I love you man guy.

[282] I don't say I love you, but I promise to get involved in your life and help you in any way I can.

[283] You start feeling really benevolent.

[284] Yeah, I'm very benevolent, very generous.

[285] That's very sweet.

[286] It is.

[287] It's really nice.

[288] People have told me that they've had the nicest conversation.

[289] You know what I've done?

[290] Every now and then when I've gotten somewhat buzzed, I'll say, and I send a text or an email, you wake up the next morning and you know that dread you have, that, oh my God, I, what did I say?

[291] For a lot of people, it is something they dread.

[292] I mean, it is something worth dreading because they read it later on.

[293] And it's like, you think you're a good boss, but you're a terrible boss.

[294] And I'd write to rip your ass open with a, you whatever.

[295] And I always look at mine later on because I think, oh my God, I know I sent them something at two in the morning.

[296] And we really had a nice time.

[297] And then I read it.

[298] It's beautifully written and sweet and succinct.

[299] and I'm like, oh my God, that's my drunk text.

[300] It's like the best version of your stuff.

[301] Yes, it is a better version of myself.

[302] Well, it sounds to me like you're getting the effects that normally you get from MDMA, from ecstasy, but just through drinking.

[303] So you're saying, is I'm not done ecstasy?

[304] Should I do it?

[305] Oh, 100%.

[306] I don't know.

[307] Again, you said you wouldn't even know where to get it.

[308] I'll find some for you.

[309] Okay.

[310] I'm someone who I would say.

[311] in the boy, I don't think it's the case now now that I've had a lot of therapy and worked on a lot of my stuff and continue to work on a lot of my stuff but I would say in the 80s and 90s I'm someone who would have been healthier if I had been drinking or taking some kind of drug.

[312] Yeah, a mild drug.

[313] Like if I've been smoking pot Robert Smygel at Sarnat Live once told me you're the only person I know who I think would live longer if you smoked.

[314] Yeah.

[315] Because I was so keyed up.

[316] Tightly wound.

[317] And I was so intense about what I was doing.

[318] When he said it, I didn't even take it as a joke.

[319] It clicked.

[320] I thought he's right.

[321] If I had a pack of Marlboro's and I had a lighter and I just stepped outside the writer's memory now and then and smoked a couple and came back in, whatever damage that did to my lungs and my heart would be offset by the peace of mind it gave me. Yeah, I kind of believe that.

[322] I have the gene, the redhead sort of Viking gene, two days ago.

[323] I got up, I was over the weekend, I got up, I didn't have a great night's sleep.

[324] I went downstairs.

[325] My wife had made coffee, strong coffee.

[326] I had four cups of coffee, went back upstairs, and went to bed and slept for two hours.

[327] Okay.

[328] Now, I don't, there's a buzzsaw inside of me that grinds through medications.

[329] And same thing, if I go to the dentist and they give me Novocaine, they'll give me much more than other people.

[330] And then they go to do it and I feel everything.

[331] And they say, oh, yeah, you're one of the first.

[332] of those.

[333] You're a redhead.

[334] So I guess that's a thing.

[335] You're like, so these areas, maybe you're metabolizing all these things quicker.

[336] I metabolize it and spit it out.

[337] Yeah.

[338] You're a machine.

[339] You know, if you're, if you're, you know, hardcore Irish, which you are, you're, as I like to, you're pure.

[340] I'm a pure Irish.

[341] You love to call people, pure.

[342] No, I am, I am, I am about as, I am more Irish than most people you would find in Irish.

[343] Yeah.

[344] 100%.

[345] And so very, very high occurrence of addiction and the gene, the addiction gene.

[346] So it's quite likely that, yeah, you just have the good chemistry to, like, handle all that shit.

[347] Were your parents abstinence from alcohol a reaction to their parents?

[348] Their parents had been dry as well.

[349] So we're talking about all grandparents, all four grandparents.

[350] Oh, my goodness.

[351] Both grandfathers, both grandmothers, never, alcohol never touched their lips.

[352] And this is the thing.

[353] If you come from central Massachusetts And it's the 19th, early 20th century, and you live in farm country, and you're Irish Catholic.

[354] There are two ways you can fuck up your life.

[355] One is with alcohol, and the other is to get someone pregnant before you're married to them.

[356] It is instilled in you without even being spoken.

[357] It's passed on through the genes.

[358] That's the way to fuck up.

[359] That's the way to lose your life.

[360] and be disgraced.

[361] So the strictures, the mores about, you know, sex and alcohol are really hardcore.

[362] And you listened.

[363] You know what's interesting?

[364] I did.

[365] I lost my virginity during Obama's second term.

[366] Okay.

[367] Right.

[368] And I was going to bring that up.

[369] And that's during now you had your first.

[370] Yeah.

[371] My first daughter.

[372] Very potent.

[373] Thank God you waited so long.

[374] I waited a long time.

[375] A couple of their kids.

[376] Yeah.

[377] But I wonder, what did your parents do?

[378] Well, they're very smart people, and they were both sort of the Irish Catholic rock stars of the, you know, 40s and 50s.

[379] Their parents had not gone to college.

[380] My mom's dad directed traffic in downtown Worcester, Massachusetts.

[381] Worcester.

[382] That's a real place.

[383] Worcester Mass, yeah.

[384] And my mom, we'll start with my mom.

[385] My mom completely through hard work got herself a full scholarship to Vassar.

[386] No shit.

[387] Back when not a lot of Irish Catholic women from Worcester are going to.

[388] Yeah, is that the late 50s or early 60s?

[389] That would be, no, no, you know, late 40s or early 50s.

[390] And then she got herself a full scholarship to.

[391] Yale law school.

[392] Get the fuck out of here.

[393] So, and then she has all these amazing stories.

[394] And it's funny, she'll tell stories about, well, when I first started clerking for a state's, you know, at the edit.

[395] This is like Ruth Bader Ginsburg's story, actually.

[396] Yeah, Ruth Bader Ginsburg stole my mom's story.

[397] Okay, that makes sense.

[398] That holds up.

[399] No, my mom was one of those people that did this incredible thing.

[400] Then went to work for a big law firm.

[401] And again, this is a time, think early, Mad Men episodes.

[402] Yeah, they're treating her very well, I'm imagining.

[403] You know, she always was very, she was not bitter at all.

[404] She would just say, oh, I loved.

[405] Everyone was very nice to me. And then she'll tell a story about, well, there was the time that we were working on a big case.

[406] And then it was time to eat lunch.

[407] And everyone went into the executive dining room.

[408] But they were nice.

[409] They set up a little table for me out in the hallway.

[410] Oh, my goodness.

[411] Because women weren't allowed in an executive dining room.

[412] And rather than anger or spite, she just had this and has this that's kind of what it was and that's what we dealt with and it was okay and I got through it and then she had six kids at the same time one every three weeks for a while there sure it's a unique genetic ability of the Irish is that we can we can have three babies a year she never checked out of the hospital she just she did not she was like I'm good I like this bed so one a year for a while There's a practicality to that generation.

[413] Sure.

[414] You know, today there's a lot of, I think, much more awareness, obviously, with, you know, Me Too movement and all these different, which are fantastic and people are speaking out and they're talking and there's much more of an awareness.

[415] And I feel this is a much better world for my daughter.

[416] Oh, for example.

[417] And I feel, and so everything that's happening now, I think, I thank God, because my daughter, this is the world that she's coming into and there's going to be heightened awareness.

[418] You know, my mom, that didn't exist in 1949, 1950.

[419] And so there's a practicality there.

[420] I was like, well, let's push ahead.

[421] Yeah.

[422] Well, so I'm going to ask you a history question.

[423] What I've figured out that I like about reading history, which you and I share in common, is it is comforting to me to recognize that, oh, it was much worse.

[424] It's always been much, much worse.

[425] Exactly.

[426] It's pertinent to know, and I think generally people don't have a great grasp of what it actually was like.

[427] It's not to say you shouldn't keep fighting very hard to move forward, but also recognize, like, there's been some pretty amazing progress.

[428] All you have to do is, I mean, it's one of the reasons I also love to read history is that right now we're at a time when there are many young people, not just Gen Xers, but millennials.

[429] and they're tearing their hair out and saying it's never been this bad.

[430] And I keep saying to them, oh, no, it's always been awful.

[431] It's always been awful.

[432] And not only has it been awful, but this nation of ours has been a work in progress.

[433] Humanity's been a work in progress.

[434] The 20th century, I mean, first of all, the 19th century was terrible.

[435] And everyone thought when the 19th century was over, There's a new century now, 20th century, and mankind is getting smarter, and countries now have, they share a banking system, we rely on each other.

[436] And so literally in 1905, 1908, people are writing essays saying there will never be war again.

[437] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[438] And then we have.

[439] Oh, you look like the world fairs back.

[440] Yeah.

[441] It was almost like they were celebrating we finished.

[442] We finished.

[443] We're done.

[444] All done.

[445] We're done.

[446] Electricity.

[447] and only one out of three children die before five now.

[448] And so hip hip hip for us, I say.

[449] But then you look at the 20th century and between World War I, World War I was so awful and so dreadful.

[450] It's very hard to explain to anybody how terror, just imagine giant meat grinders that you're feeding the fruit of a generation to on both sides.

[451] And that that runs on for four years and nothing is accomplished.

[452] And when it's over, no one knows why we even did that.

[453] And the table's perfectly set now for World War II.

[454] Yeah, bigger.

[455] Yeah.

[456] And then World War II is in many ways worse.

[457] And then that ends with us inventing nuclear weapons.

[458] And so just, no, people say we've never been more split as a country.

[459] And I keep saying there was a four -year war when one side of the country was trying to kill the other.

[460] And then I had this thought the other day, which is, could there be a civil war now?

[461] And then I thought, that'd be tricky because none of the states that don't get along, they're not attached to each other.

[462] When it was North versus South, a whole chunk could say, we're together, and you could travel from South Carolina to Georgia.

[463] There was a line.

[464] There was a Mason -Dixon line.

[465] Now, well, California has linked forces with New York.

[466] And you think, well, how do we, wait a minute, how does that work?

[467] And then I think to myself, it's not even California and New York.

[468] It's San Francisco and Los Angeles have linked forces with Manhattan.

[469] But upstate New York hates Manhattan.

[470] Fresno is invading L .A. Fresno is invading Los Angeles.

[471] Bakersfield is helping Fresno.

[472] All of Oregon's closing in on Portland.

[473] On Portland.

[474] And then, exactly.

[475] And then there are, you know, Portland is trying to join forces with Seattle.

[476] but East Washington has attacked.

[477] We're all going to be so busy with our podcasts that we'll be overrun.

[478] It'll be a bunch of hipsters making, I just made a gin that's pure.

[479] So dad, dad must be kind of a confident guy because is misogynistic as this sounds to say.

[480] It takes kind of an evolved man in the 50s to be married to a woman pursuing a career in law.

[481] I think he liked that she was bringing money in.

[482] Yeah, okay, good.

[483] And I'm going to say that that, and also my dad.

[484] I'm in a similar situation.

[485] My dad is, uh, my dad is and was, I think, highly evolved.

[486] My dad's also a brilliant guy on his side.

[487] He went and got full scholarship, Holy Cross College, then full scholarship to Harvard Medical School.

[488] Oh, my.

[489] Oh, wow.

[490] Where he's like, where he just watched language.

[491] I'm way less impressed now with your accomplishment.

[492] You should have been present.

[493] Anything shy of president is a failure?

[494] There's still time.

[495] There's still time.

[496] First admission.

[497] First, you heard you heard here first.

[498] There's still time.

[499] Conan 2028.

[500] I think 24.

[501] I don't even know.

[502] 2048.

[503] If that even lines up, I don't think it does.

[504] There's someone out there who knows immediately.

[505] Nope, that's not an election year.

[506] But no, he's a, and then he.

[507] What kind of doctor?

[508] Microbiologist.

[509] And he in the early 70s was saying, we're over prescribing antibiotics.

[510] And everyone was like, shut up.

[511] Yeah.

[512] Antibiotics are great.

[513] What's the problem?

[514] Yeah.

[515] And he and a few other people, literally a handful, were saying, well, there could be antibiotic resistance.

[516] Sure.

[517] And people would be like, shut up, nerd.

[518] And they would shove my dad's head into a toilet and then give all the cattle in the area giant mouthfuls.

[519] of streptomycin or whatever.

[520] And my dad was, so he was in research.

[521] And still, to this day, I don't think he wants me giving out his age, but he still goes into the lab and putters around.

[522] Yeah, he goes into the lab working to, I mean, his big project in his life has been trying to figure out how to track worldwide.

[523] Is there a way to track worldwide?

[524] And I'm sure I'm, I'm butchering the essence, of what he's trying to do.

[525] I'm just trying to give you the basics, but how to track worldwide if there's a resistant bacteria in Chile, and how can we know if it's also showing up in Amsterdam?

[526] And what does that mean?

[527] And what's the best way to combat it?

[528] So my dad started back when they had punch cards, he was trying to work on a computer system.

[529] Like a big IBM.

[530] Yeah, now he's got this computer network and he's got these young people working for him.

[531] That's a fun fact of history that IBM was sending guys over to help the Nazis with their computers.

[532] Do you know that with the punch cards?

[533] I didn't know that.

[534] Yeah, we better fact check that.

[535] I might get sued.

[536] But yeah, I believe that they were over there.

[537] Yeah, if you're just going to toss that stuff out.

[538] Yeah, feel free to slander anyone.

[539] Oh, yeah, Dannon's yogurt was actually a pet project of Himmlers.

[540] We're just going to start saying stuff.

[541] No. Stay tuned for more armchair experts.

[542] if you dare We've all been there turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[543] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[544] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[545] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[546] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[547] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[548] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[549] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[550] What's up guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season and Let me tell you, it's too good.

[551] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[552] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[553] And I don't mean just friends.

[554] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[555] The list goes on.

[556] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[557] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[558] So it's a foregone conclusion that you're going to have to go to Harvard, right?

[559] No. It's not.

[560] No. Did they not go like, hey, we did it?

[561] No, they did not do that at all because when both your parents are working and there's six kids, there was a, I'm going to say a healthy amount of, I'm not going to say chaos.

[562] Okay.

[563] But what number are you in there?

[564] I'm third.

[565] Oh, perfect.

[566] So you're a middle child?

[567] Yeah.

[568] So neither of my older brothers went there and my sisters didn't go there.

[569] And then my youngest brother, who's much younger than I am, 40 years younger than I am.

[570] I just threw that out for fun to see if anyone's paying attention.

[571] He ended up going there.

[572] He's like 15, something like that.

[573] Yeah.

[574] Very nice.

[575] Very nice.

[576] Yeah, he's, he, but yeah, it was not, you will go there.

[577] I think they were happy to see us go to a college.

[578] Real quick, logistical question.

[579] Who on earth was raising you guys?

[580] Was the older brothers in charge?

[581] Well, my mom didn't work for a while when I was young.

[582] So she took time off to have.

[583] have my brothers and my sisters.

[584] And then she went back to work.

[585] Okay.

[586] Just before she had Justin the last child.

[587] Whenever I was in school.

[588] Yeah.

[589] So she was around.

[590] She was at home.

[591] Were you the person that alleviated tension?

[592] I, you'd have to get my - There was probably a teenager in the mix and like a terrible two in the mix.

[593] I remembered, I was a highly anxious kid.

[594] Okay.

[595] Very anxious.

[596] and um what brand of anxiety uh you're fearful of the future or no um i just a free floating it took me a long time to figure this out you know what i kept journals when i was a kid and i there's somewhere but i don't know where that i and i've tried to find them and i can't but there's part of me that doesn't want to find them because i think they were pretty dreary uh -huh i think you know fourth fifth six seventh grade i was a pretty intense anxious kid who um did you have a sense of like i've got to accomplish something right out of the gates i did yeah just genetically you know what i don't understand i've thought i've thought about it a lot and i've thought about what maybe uh i was um extremely determined even as a young kid and i don't know where that comes from and i have a theory that some people just have that sure and uh It's inside them, and you can put them anywhere.

[597] You can put them in Antarctica.

[598] But if they're meant to do what they're going to do, if they're meant to be in comedy, they're going to somehow get to upright Citizens Brigade, and then they're going to get an audition for Saturday, a little satellite.

[599] Something.

[600] Satellite UCB of Antarctica.

[601] Yeah, they're going to figure it out.

[602] And, I mean, well, you have children.

[603] So I wonder if you've had this experience where, like, like my oldest, we have this poll that supports this awning in our backyard.

[604] And I was just watching her through a window.

[605] So it's not to impress me or anything.

[606] She just tried to start scaling it.

[607] And she just did it over and over and over again for about 90 minutes until she got to the top.

[608] And I thought, well, I can't teach her that.

[609] She just has that.

[610] I don't know why she has that.

[611] She just won't quit.

[612] And she's going to be a stripper.

[613] I hope so.

[614] That's what you take away from it.

[615] I'm sorry.

[616] She just obsessed.

[617] She's obsessed with working a pole and I'm sorry.

[618] I overlooked the very obvious thing.

[619] I was taking me as such a positive determined.

[620] Did she ask for tips during it throughout?

[621] She did ask for tips.

[622] Now that I, see, I thought she took her shirt off to get more traction on the pole, but now it's all making sense.

[623] Was pour some sugar on me playing.

[624] No, there is, you know, you cannot, you cannot instill that in somebody that's in them or it is not in them.

[625] But the ego, right, the ego a little bit to acknowledge that.

[626] that or admit that it takes a little bit of the accomplishment away from it do you do you think like if you if you don't diagnose like what the fuel in the tank is and you go like well i guess i was just hardwired to do this and then you feel a little less you know proud of yourself uh you know i think this is a big thing with me is humility it's a big word for me i'm get enraged by people that think they are where they are because they completely got themselves there.

[627] Right.

[628] And, you know, I remembered once, I had this analogy where I was living on the East Coast.

[629] I think I was working on Cernet Live and I used to sometimes take Amtrak to go visit my parents.

[630] And I remember being on an Amtrak train and getting on and all the seats were taken and I was standing there.

[631] And this, some of the people that were sitting had a real superior attitude about the fact that they had a seat.

[632] And I remember a guy looking annoyed that like, why all these people standing here?

[633] Like, why didn't they just get seats?

[634] And I thought this is a perfect, you know, I got on later than you did.

[635] You got on earlier and you have a seat.

[636] And I've always had a lot of empathy for, I think, growing up the way I grew up and having a lot of anxiety and being a terrible athlete when I was a kid and not quite figuring out what my jam was.

[637] You know, comedy, which was my super weapon, was something that was only known to my really good friends.

[638] You weren't a class clown.

[639] It was not a, and I've always said, class clowns rarely make it in comedy.

[640] Like Steve Martin was probably not a class clown.

[641] Class clowns die in motel shootouts.

[642] You know, the kid that's like...

[643] Well, I've straddled both lines, yeah.

[644] I was a class clown.

[645] I got class clown.

[646] Yeah.

[647] And, but yeah, I was, you know, in a lot of those motels where I almost didn't make it here.

[648] You've been shot at many times.

[649] And you have returned fire and you've gone out the back.

[650] You say that jokingly.

[651] I guess my point is, I don't know why I have that thing in me that makes me need to do this.

[652] Yeah.

[653] And I've kind of given up trying to figure it out.

[654] But it wasn't because you were trying to break the stress of the hows.

[655] That wasn't your role per se, was it?

[656] I would say, were you trying to beat people to making fun of you first?

[657] Like, you know, there's some kind of pretty well -worn path to developing a sense.

[658] I was dyslexic, and so I had - And still are.

[659] Yeah, some permanently dislikes.

[660] Well, I don't know.

[661] I'm sorry.

[662] You know, you're really, you're like the tense.

[663] Tense police.

[664] Well, I'm sorry.

[665] I was dyslexic.

[666] It's like the fifth time you point out my tense is wrong.

[667] He's right.

[668] He's just right.

[669] I'm just keeping you honest.

[670] Someone's got it.

[671] I will say that yes, I do think that I was aware of some level of tension, you know.

[672] And I think there's some misconceptions about my mom didn't go back to work till later in the game.

[673] And my dad is working in academic medicine.

[674] and there's six kids.

[675] So there's...

[676] Yeah, even if you had the perfect parents in that scenario.

[677] It was, there was some creative chaos there.

[678] And they're not drinking to alleviate.

[679] Like, if your dad would have came home and had like three highballs...

[680] Much better childhood.

[681] Yeah, right.

[682] Yeah.

[683] What you're aiming for is the parent that can hit that sweet spot.

[684] You don't want either, you don't want a sober or an alcoholic.

[685] You want the right up the middle.

[686] It's the bewitch dad who comes home and says, make me a stiff one.

[687] He has a drinker.

[688] to, but he never seems intoxicated.

[689] No, but he's, he's so much more tolerant of hearing about everyone's day.

[690] He has endless patience now.

[691] Yeah.

[692] Because that slow, subtle buzz is sneaking in and voices are quiet.

[693] Exactly.

[694] So I'm, yeah, I desperately think that my childhood was ruined because my father wasn't a heavy drinker.

[695] That's what I'm saying.

[696] That's the takeaway.

[697] When we promote this episode, that'll be like kind of the catch line.

[698] Yeah.

[699] The summation.

[700] You're not drinking for yourself.

[701] You're drinking for yourself.

[702] children.

[703] But you get to Harvard, you have this crazy compulsion to succeed and you work crazy hard, you know, you have an insane work ethic.

[704] That was what I took away from the Stern interview.

[705] I, at the risk of sounding, you know, you don't want to, you don't want to, I mean, I see it in other people too.

[706] Like I see it in someone like Tina Faye, Tina Faye, who I have incredible respect for.

[707] I look at her and I say, she has an insane work ethic.

[708] She has it a very hardcore work ethic and I'm so impressed with her career accomplishments but I'm also impressed by the fact that she I don't know she's always seemed to me like someone who has a really strong moral compass and works very very very hard and I think there's she's not an accident there's no Tina Fey is in an accident and and I really believe in those things I think it's like have a good moral compass and work really hard there's a very dicey observation to make but I think you and I could both agree that like Chris Farley just born like you know point a camera at him put him on a stage no matter what's happening just or Belushi there's been you know certain people sure and and then there are people that that just broke their fucking back in created so you're you didn't come out like Chris Farley no you're you were like I'm gonna write that's a safe spot for me. You know what it was?

[709] I think what it was, there are things you have that you're born with, and I very early on could make people laugh.

[710] I don't think that's something you can, well, I'm not funny, but I'm going to work really hard at it.

[711] Well, yeah, yeah.

[712] You know, I do think what you can do is maximize what you have.

[713] Yeah.

[714] And so long before I was working at anything, I mean, for the longest time, even well into college, I didn't think comedy was a profession.

[715] I honestly did not think it was a profession.

[716] I thought I'm going to probably have to go to law school or I might go to a school of government.

[717] I may be a serious writer.

[718] It didn't occur to me until I got on the college humor magazine and saw that other people had turned comedy writing into a career that the thing I enjoyed most was something that you could do for a living.

[719] It's always been funny to me is that people, the minute, it was this thing that I worked so hard to do when I was a kid because I had a compulsion to get somewhere.

[720] I knew I had to get somewhere, but I didn't know where.

[721] But I knew I had to get somewhere.

[722] And then I get to Harvard.

[723] And it was a real arduous journey for me anyway.

[724] That's how it felt.

[725] Other people could say, sure, white guy.

[726] His parents went to great colleges.

[727] Sure, it was really hard.

[728] But for me, it felt like a Tolkien -esque adventure with many missteps along the way.

[729] but then I get into Harvard and once I got into comedy, all I've wanted to do is live it down.

[730] I hate even talking about it because it brings, there's all this baggage that comes with it where people think, oh, wow, Harvard guy, huh?

[731] And you think, oh, no, I'd so, if I could rewrite my bio right now and just lose that, I would.

[732] Which is so ironic because I work so hard to get there.

[733] I've had a few people on here who went to Harvard and I bring this up all the time.

[734] a good friend of mine, Christine Kane, she went to Harvard.

[735] And I've been with her many times when people, this college comes up.

[736] And every time that she has to say, I went to Harvard, everyone's like, ooh, I mean, they immediately going to this mocking thing.

[737] And I was like, what a, what a thing to observe?

[738] I would have thought this is something you'd be so proud of your whole life.

[739] And it's just a big pain on my ass.

[740] And Mike Scher pointed out, yes, as much as I refuse to bitch about going to Harvard, I will say, yeah, you have to like try to get around it.

[741] You go, say, I went to school and boss.

[742] and there's all these tricks you guys know.

[743] Most importantly, I don't even care about the Harvard of it.

[744] But the Harvard Lampoon.

[745] So, and I just saw this for the first time.

[746] I didn't realize you guys have this little castle, right?

[747] You have like a little clubhouse.

[748] And there's an area that only you guys have been in.

[749] Yeah.

[750] Is it like Hogwarts?

[751] Is there something exciting going on in there?

[752] Or would it disappoint me?

[753] Have you been to the Playboy Mansion?

[754] No. They actually invited me once in like the 90s and I said no. And they were like, they were like, what do you mean?

[755] No. The woman on the line said, what do you mean no?

[756] And I said, it's not going to be good if I go.

[757] I'm going to be self -conscious.

[758] And she kept saying, wait, what are you talking about?

[759] And I said, look, if I go, everyone's going to have less fun.

[760] And I talked myself out of going to the Playboy Mansion.

[761] Well, I wish she had gone because I went once for a Halloween party.

[762] And as I arrive, I'm like, oh, my God, there it is.

[763] It's amazing.

[764] And there's a game room and everything.

[765] And every time you got closer to something, you're like, oh, that's a really old phone system.

[766] Oh, a few of the buttons are broken off.

[767] And just slowly you realize the whole thing was just a real run down shit hole.

[768] That is the best what you just said, unwittingly, you've stumbled upon.

[769] I've fallen ass backwards into something.

[770] You like Mr. Magoo, you stumbled like Clousseau, you tripped and solved the case.

[771] That my experience in life has been over and over and over and over again is that if you idolize something, if you idealize something, if you put a place or a person up on a shelf, the best thing you can do is go and experience it.

[772] And I'll say it about, look, Harvard's a fine school, but I've not spent my life going, you've, the wonders there.

[773] It's a place.

[774] Sure, sure.

[775] It's a place.

[776] I've met some really smart people there.

[777] I met some really dumb people there.

[778] They have no magic beans there that they're giving you.

[779] And then I had the same experience over and over again in show business.

[780] I feel like the greatest gift in life I've ever been given is to have been given so many of my wildest dreams to recognize, oh, those things won't make me feel different inside.

[781] As much as I was certain they would.

[782] So even you, even though I know that, I think about you being at S &L in the time that you were there.

[783] And I think, God, no, it must have been magical, but it was, well, I'm going to, I'm going to qualify this.

[784] There are magical moments.

[785] There are moments that, um, still to this day, you know, because it's a point in your life.

[786] So I'm not going to lie, there are little moments here and there in anyone's life.

[787] And I'm sure in your life as well, there are moments you have that stand out that get this sort of golden hue over time.

[788] Definitely being that young and going to Saturday Night Live and suddenly being in the room pitching an idea to Steve Martin.

[789] I mean, that's the one of the amazing things about Sarnet Live is that Lorne, I don't know where he got this, but I hadn't been in show business that long, but before Sarnat Live, but the experiences I had had were very much you weighed out here while we go through the six levels and then go talk to, the talent.

[790] Start out live, you suddenly, you get to this place, I don't know, it's 24, I think, maybe.

[791] And they say, yeah, Steve Martin's in there.

[792] Go tell them some ideas.

[793] Because the host, people maybe don't know, right?

[794] The host, they spend the week there and they're generally part of the writing process, right?

[795] And they come in.

[796] And so you'd go in and there's your idol.

[797] Your absolute idol.

[798] Your idol.

[799] Steve Martin changed my kind of of how funny a human being could be.

[800] That holds for me that you're a Steve Martin guy.

[801] Yes.

[802] Yeah.

[803] You know, it's funny because these things are generational.

[804] He did things that I didn't think you were allowed to do.

[805] And I'm not talking about like the arrow through the head kind of Steve Martin.

[806] Right.

[807] But his just his attitude, his completely brash attitude.

[808] And then what I love is the intersection of smart and silly.

[809] Yeah.

[810] It's two circles.

[811] And when you can get them close to each other, there's this place where they intersect, this little point, this, this narrow section where smart and silly come together and that guy nailed it.

[812] And then attached like a 10 ,000 -volt battery to it.

[813] I just couldn't believe I was in the same room with him.

[814] Yeah.

[815] And now he tells me I'm his hero.

[816] Is that true?

[817] No. Okay.

[818] But I kept staring at you to see if I really did.

[819] You held it long enough.

[820] I held it and I stared at you.

[821] Well, you know what I was doing?

[822] I was going through in my mind like, has Conan done something I don't know about?

[823] Like, did you save some people that were at Steve?

[824] I saved.

[825] Like a maritime rescue.

[826] Steve Martin and Marty Shore were in a dinghy.

[827] They were in a dingy and it was going under and I was in my yacht.

[828] Yes, as you are on Sundays.

[829] The SS entitled.

[830] And yeah, I saved them.

[831] Okay, that makes a lot more sense to me now.

[832] I think there's a really, and I don't know that you've looked back on your life and actually thought about it this way, but you've done some uniquely brave things.

[833] And I don't know if they were motivated, what they were motivated out of.

[834] I'm curious.

[835] But you were at Saturday Night Live for three years.

[836] And that's a dream job for anyone that went to Harvard and was in the Harvard Lampoon.

[837] And then after three years, you quit that show.

[838] Yeah.

[839] And I didn't have another job at the time.

[840] Right.

[841] And this to me seems very inconsistent with someone who's kind of type A implied.

[842] and gets into Harvard.

[843] So it's like you're very much taking the safe road so often.

[844] And then what was happening?

[845] Can I guess?

[846] Yeah.

[847] So you had anxiety.

[848] I think you were drawn to writing because you can control that world on that piece of paper.

[849] Yeah.

[850] Right?

[851] So it's like you're totally powerful and effective on this typewriter.

[852] And I don't know.

[853] That's what it appeals to performing about me. When do you think I was writing typewriter?

[854] in the 50s when you started, weren't you writing at the lampoon?

[855] It was a steam powered typewriter.

[856] Type set.

[857] You were moving the movable typeset.

[858] When I was etching the blocks to dip in the ink.

[859] But do you think that you were very drawn to control?

[860] And that is something you can control.

[861] Here's what I think.

[862] Because I've thought about this a lot.

[863] It's the salty and the sweet.

[864] It's the yin and the yang.

[865] It's the tension between control and lack of control.

[866] So there's two parts of me. None of us are one thing, but I am exactly two things.

[867] I desperately want control and craftsmanship, and I desperately want chaos and to be challenged.

[868] And those two things are constantly, I mean, it's a struggle because I commit to things and I say I'll do it, And that's the brave part of me. And then it starts to come upon me that I have to perform at the White House Correspondence dinner.

[869] Yeah, fuck that.

[870] And follow President Obama in front of a hostile crowd.

[871] And I'm like, why?

[872] Why did I?

[873] And then, you know, sheer panic and then work ethic.

[874] Let's work really hard all the time to come up with the best jokes.

[875] Yeah, it's almost like you're creating situations that you know you'll have to dig your way out of.

[876] Yeah, I do this.

[877] similar thing.

[878] And that's what I do is say yes and know that court disaster and then this is why I tell young people all the time, you have less to lose than you think.

[879] So I several times in my career, that's what blows my mind, have said, yes, I'll do that.

[880] And I'm scared as I'm saying it.

[881] Yeah.

[882] It's not that I'm insane or have a tumor.

[883] Right.

[884] I'm very, very aware, as I'm saying, I will do that, that this is potentially disastrous and life -ending.

[885] Yeah.

[886] And then I start going to work getting myself out of the jam.

[887] So similarly, I was going to UCLA, going through the ground liens, and then three days a week going on benders.

[888] So I was like crazy focus control freak.

[889] And then I needed to just.

[890] I needed relief from that.

[891] It was uncomfortable being that way.

[892] Yeah.

[893] So my hunch is that you're at S &L and you're pretty much doing about as spectacular as you can do at 24 years old and maybe you're just going, okay, well, I was expecting a certain feeling from all this in that I don't have that feeling and I need to kind of regroup.

[894] Yeah, I think I also So had, was in a relationship that it just ended.

[895] Uh -huh.

[896] And wanted to reset.

[897] I just wanted a complete reset.

[898] So I sounds absurd.

[899] But I quit starting out live, didn't have a job, didn't have a place to stay.

[900] My friend Eric found me an apartment that I could stay in on the Upper West Side because the people there were gone for like a month.

[901] So I stayed there.

[902] I bought a book of Seamus Heaney poetry and walked around.

[903] on New York and sat on benches reading it.

[904] And I say it now and I'm ashamed.

[905] Of course.

[906] I'm sorry.

[907] I'm sorry that I walked around New York and read poetry on a bench.

[908] A lot of people saw you.

[909] We're like, look that fucking asshole.

[910] Go make something.

[911] I literally, I literally, I literally, I literally wrapped a, uh, a hustler magazine around the poetry book so people would think I was cooler.

[912] Also, we're not missing you.

[913] It's not like you're, you're, you're not blending in.

[914] No, it was bad.

[915] I know.

[916] It looked like it was bad.

[917] It was like Big Bird from Sesame Street was reading Bertolt Brecht or, you know, I was completely lost.

[918] And that's when there was an opportunity at the Simpsons and I. Which they didn't hire much back.

[919] They were not, they were still, I think, pretty much working off the original group.

[920] Right.

[921] And I got extremely lucky because I got in there.

[922] You know, now people are always coming up and saying like, wow, you know, seasons, whatever, that I was there.

[923] I can't remember, four or five.

[924] 91 to 93.

[925] Yeah.

[926] And they were like, wow, that had very, very little, if nothing to do with me. I hit the sweet spot.

[927] It was really nice.

[928] Are you sure?

[929] I think you're being.

[930] No, let me tell you something.

[931] Because before you got there, the show was very realistic sitcom cartoon.

[932] And while you were there, it transformed into a very surreal show.

[933] And I think what people love about the show is it's surreal.

[934] realness and it's Conan O 'Brien's.

[935] No, but for real, there was a radical shift in the sensibility of the show.

[936] Yeah.

[937] People that worked with you there have said publicly that they believe you would have been the showrunner of that show had you stuck around.

[938] So I don't think we can underestimate your significance in that show and the paradigm shift that occurred while you were there.

[939] So just take the fucking compliment.

[940] All right.

[941] You're a big part of why that show is as weird and unique and wonderful.

[942] Mike, I'm curious, can you watch that show after you left?

[943] You know, it's funny, I didn't.

[944] Okay.

[945] I didn't, not because of any, you know, snobbery or anything like, or I don't need that anymore.

[946] I left to do the late night show, and I did nothing but eat, sleep, breathe, the late night show for years and years.

[947] That's all I did.

[948] And, I mean, just...

[949] You just didn't watch anything.

[950] I just...

[951] Would you have had that feeling, though?

[952] Like, I don't enjoy going to see improv shows because I'm an impover.

[953] I don't...

[954] I want to get on the stage and do it.

[955] I can't really enjoy...

[956] It's like watching other people fuck.

[957] I don't really want to do that.

[958] I love to watch other people fuck.

[959] I do too.

[960] That was a terrible analogy.

[961] Maybe the worst analogy I've ever made in my life.

[962] I've watched people fuck with you.

[963] That's true.

[964] That's true.

[965] You and I have walked through Hancock Park.

[966] Uh -huh.

[967] And we have looked for people who are having sex.

[968] And when we look in the window and we watch them.

[969] You and I have done that countless times.

[970] We have.

[971] And you have said, this is the best moment of my life every time we do it.

[972] I even said I like this more than fucking because I have no anxiety about performing.

[973] You're absolutely right.

[974] So whatever.

[975] But I just wonder if you had watched that show, you would have felt like you would have felt a sense of like missing out.

[976] Like, oh, that would have been fun to.

[977] No. I don't have any.

[978] I don't care how this sounds.

[979] This is just the truth.

[980] I'm someone who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.

[981] So very much for me, I always wanted to make my thing.

[982] Sure.

[983] And I...

[984] Well, you need a real good dose of arrogance to make it in this business, right?

[985] Well, I, for, you know, and guess what?

[986] Call it what you want.

[987] But I, the whole time I was at The Simpsons, and as much as I love that show, And I have rediscovered the Simpsons through my son Beckett because he started about a year ago watching The Simpsons and loving it and worked his way starting from the beginning, then hit my episodes and was like, hey, I mean, it's actually the first time I've seen him have like a glint in his eye of the old man had had a fastball once.

[988] Yeah.

[989] But no one gets that.

[990] You should feel very lucky.

[991] It didn't last long.

[992] But I rediscovered the show and have been watching them and just skipping around watching all these episodes with him and been blown away.

[993] How, I mean, you know, shows from years and years and years after I was there and being blown away by the creativity and laughing out loud at the cleverness of the jokes and just, I mean, I'm stunned that the crew at the Simpsons has been able to keep it going.

[994] To maintain that level.

[995] To maintain that is unheard of.

[996] Because even Saturday Night Live, it goes through these lulls.

[997] It's like they rediscover it, you know.

[998] I think one of the things about The Simpsons that helps is that the reference point's always the same.

[999] Whereas it's sign out live.

[1000] The cast changes.

[1001] The cast changes.

[1002] And so you can completely, you know, it's like if you don't check in with your baseball team for like three seasons, you tune.

[1003] It's all different people.

[1004] Yes.

[1005] Whereas the Simpsons, you are.

[1006] anchored with there's marge there's lisa there's homer there's bart you're locked in and i think that makes it a completely different situation but i wanted to make my thing i wanted to make something that stank of conan and that was conanee and i and that is probably would call it whatever you want narcissism ego whatever you want to call it but i just that was my compulsion was i would and i remembered once when I would, used to get up on stage at the groundlings and do stuff and I would act out one of my sketches at the groundlings, I wasn't getting paid.

[1007] Uh -huh.

[1008] You're not making.

[1009] Yeah, you're paying.

[1010] You're paying to be there.

[1011] You're paid a place.

[1012] And I'm paying money to be up on this stage.

[1013] And when it was going well, I was much happier than I was as part of a large institution that was making something that someone else invented.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] As much as I admired that thing.

[1016] I mean, I've had an incredible respect for it's a very, writing on a TV show is very collaborative.

[1017] It's there's compromises.

[1018] There's a network note pass.

[1019] There's, uh, there's legal.

[1020] There's all these things that you could feel like are just slowly taking the edges off of the thing you originally want to do.

[1021] So it just inherently has a lot of compromise built into it.

[1022] So yeah, you long to just go, fuck, I want to try my exact.

[1023] thing.

[1024] Yeah, I want to do a thing where you are getting a mainline shot of Conan.

[1025] And the fact that I'm even describing this using my name and the third person is problematic.

[1026] It's very problematic.

[1027] And I acknowledge that.

[1028] I'm aware of that.

[1029] But that's what I wanted.

[1030] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1031] Here's the second time that I think you're crazy.

[1032] You were on the Simpsons.

[1033] That was going well.

[1034] I'm sure they cherish your.

[1035] I'm sure you were making a lot of money for a young guy.

[1036] And this opportunity came up.

[1037] Letterman was leaving and Lauren approached you to be a producer on the replacement, whoever that would be.

[1038] I was not thrilled with being a producer on something where there was no talent signed up.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] So I actually parted company.

[1041] I said like, you know, I don't want to do that.

[1042] And I went my way and assumed that I would just be reading soon about somebody else.

[1043] being the host of late night.

[1044] Right.

[1045] And I guess they weren't seeing the person that they wanted or they couldn't find the right.

[1046] They didn't know.

[1047] And then I think Lauren was talking to Gavin Pallone.

[1048] And Gavin said, hey, look, Conan could probably do it.

[1049] And Lauren was like, you think Conan could do it?

[1050] Wasn't Gavin your...

[1051] He was my agent.

[1052] Yeah, he was, right?

[1053] Because you often see agents take a tremendous amount of credit for things they had nothing new.

[1054] But in this case, this is one of the good story.

[1055] Yeah, he, I mean, Gavin had seen me do stuff, and I think Lorne had also, I had been, I think Jim Downey was always a big booster of mine at Serna Live.

[1056] And I think he had, I used to perform for the writers.

[1057] Well, I was going to say, you and this was kind of your role, I've been told, lore has it.

[1058] So when you're pitching stories or bits or jokes, you would often act them out.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] And so there's an inherent.

[1061] That's actually how I wrote is I wouldn't sit down with a piece of paper and write.

[1062] I would.

[1063] I would.

[1064] would do things in a character.

[1065] For my friends, I remembered once I was out with, I think I was out in Midtown Manhattan.

[1066] We were just walking around with Robert Smigel, Bob Odenkirk, Greg Daniels, and this attractive girl started to go by.

[1067] And I wasn't doing it so they could hear me, but I'd be like, well, she's, you know, she's looking pretty sweet.

[1068] And, you know, and then the girl would walk by and I'd go, and my penis is too small and my head is too fat.

[1069] And they just started laughing.

[1070] And then I kept doing it.

[1071] Those are the kind of things I would just say very confident on the approach.

[1072] But then in the same, it just cracked me up that with the same confidence listing the reasons why she passed me by.

[1073] They were like, let's write that up.

[1074] And then we all wrote it up together.

[1075] And then Tom Hanks did it.

[1076] And we called it the Girl Watchers.

[1077] And I remember at the time, Al Franken just saying, like, how did you think of this?

[1078] And I was like, I don't know.

[1079] I was just doing it.

[1080] Right.

[1081] My brother Luke said something that meant a lot to me. A couple of weeks ago, it was the 25 years to the day that we had started the late night show.

[1082] It was September 13th, 2018.

[1083] My brother Luke just posted this thing on Facebook.

[1084] He said, people keep saying to me, I can't believe your brother's been doing a show for 25 years.

[1085] And he said, I've been telling all of them, he's been doing that show his entire life.

[1086] And that is exactly true.

[1087] Right.

[1088] Which is I always was doing a show.

[1089] And I was constantly doing a show.

[1090] If you sent me to camp up in New Hampshire, I was doing a show in the cabin for kids.

[1091] I was always doing a show.

[1092] And I did it compulsively.

[1093] It wasn't a plan.

[1094] I just, that's what I did.

[1095] And the thing is, I wasn't, I was shy.

[1096] This is hard to explain.

[1097] I was shy, but then when I, little funny ideas would come to me and I would work up the nerve to sometimes do them in front of other people and I'd get a laugh, but then I'd retreat again.

[1098] I was not brazen.

[1099] I was not like, hey, everybody, check me out.

[1100] But that would have earned you the rare distinction of class clown.

[1101] Yes, class clown.

[1102] And we all know that it's, it became obvious how jealous you are of class clowns.

[1103] Man, class clowns are either killed in a motel shootout or they end up above a garage doing a podcast.

[1104] Either way, it's a sorry end.

[1105] All right.

[1106] So Gavin says, why don't you try out?

[1107] I think.

[1108] And let me just be really clear.

[1109] There's probably documents somewhere that didn't exactly say what happened because this has all turned into lore to some regard.

[1110] But the broad strokes are, Lauren says to me, would you be interested in, you know, auditioning?

[1111] And I thought, you know, I'd audition.

[1112] This is one of those times you said yes and then shit your pants.

[1113] I remember thinking, I remembered thinking could this really happen?

[1114] I mean, I'm 29.

[1115] Uh -huh, yeah.

[1116] They're replacing the biggest star on television.

[1117] Yeah.

[1118] I have no on -camera experience.

[1119] You're reading books in the park.

[1120] I'm reading books in the park.

[1121] I'm not, you know, I'm not camera ready in so many ways.

[1122] I'm not ready in any way.

[1123] And, uh, did that help actually calm your, no, no, no, it was I, I. Because it helps me sometimes when I go in and I go, oh, I'll never get this.

[1124] I'm at my best when I think I can't get something.

[1125] I misunderstood.

[1126] Yes, if you watch my audition, I'm incredibly relaxed in my audition because I thought this isn't going to happen.

[1127] Right.

[1128] That's liberating.

[1129] Then I got very scared after the audition because everyone had kind of a, wow, that was good vibe.

[1130] And I was retroactively frightened.

[1131] I was frightened.

[1132] I was like, wait a minute, what did I just do?

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] You just submitted a very good application.

[1135] You just wrote a check your ass can't cash.

[1136] Yes, exactly.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] You know, I did it again because then there was a, there was a couple of weeks went by where I think NBC was saying well we can't give it to this kid and so they actually went out and they talked to Gary Shanling and then I actually got a call and Lisa Kudrow can back this up because she was in the car with me at the time but I got a call and I was in my car and I had like one of those early 90 cell phones that was larger than the car itself and I the phone rang and I think and Lauren said well it's not happening they're going to get some you know you're going to get something out of this but you're not going to get 1230 because that's going to go to Shandling and then I hung up the phone and then I remember Lisa's saying huh so I guess that's not happening and I said I don't think Shaling Shaling's not going to do that doesn't make sense to me because he was doing Larry Sanders and he was doing this brilliant thing that mocked the idea of doing a show and I thought why would he give that up to get in there and grind it out every day for an hour I don't see yeah very very Who would do that who didn't have to do it?

[1139] And then they brought me in for some meeting at NBC and I remembered something got into me. And I just, you know, Robert Smigel and I had been talking a lot about what the show after Letterman should be.

[1140] And I got into this meeting and I just, I mean, half of me, like I said, there's a duality, but half of me wanted to say, guys, you're right, this is a mistake.

[1141] And I'm just going to go back to The Simpsons.

[1142] And I got a great car phone.

[1143] I got a great car phone.

[1144] Everything's going to lose the kudros in the car.

[1145] Driving a Ford Taurus S -H -O, and it's all going my way, and this is going to be great.

[1146] But this other half took over when I got in that meeting, and I said, okay, here's what the show needs to be.

[1147] Letterman did irony.

[1148] We have to go past that.

[1149] He would use your Larry Bud Melmans and your Chris Elliott's, and they would do sort of a comment on performing.

[1150] We're going to cut to really good improvisers in the crowd who are going to really commit to a bit.

[1151] that I'm not going to wink at the camera.

[1152] If someone's supposed to be my sister in the audience, I'm going to really play that she is my sister in the audience, even if it's Amy Poehler.

[1153] We'll have cartoons, there'll be music, there'll be a Pee -Herman sort of sensibility to it.

[1154] All this stuff came out of me, and I swear to God, this has never talked about, but in that meeting, suddenly I was in a room with people that didn't know what to do, and there was a 29 -year -old in the room saying, this is what we're doing.

[1155] I left that meeting and I remember talking to Lisa saying, I think I just tucked myself into that job.

[1156] Why the fuck did I do that?

[1157] Again, you wrote another, an even bigger check.

[1158] Yeah, an even bigger check that I couldn't cash.

[1159] But decisiveness is attractive, right?

[1160] I mean, this is how some people have explained a lot of Trump's appeal to people.

[1161] Is right or wrong?

[1162] He is not wavering.

[1163] He's got an exact point of view, right?

[1164] So you went in there with like, they bought it into the fact that you knew what you wanted to do and that's comforting.

[1165] If we take anything from this interview, it's that my similarity.

[1166] to Trump.

[1167] It's almost indistinguishable.

[1168] I am the Trump of comedy.

[1169] That's what people say.

[1170] That's what everyone, that's what we all say when you're not around.

[1171] This is, I'm very.

[1172] The Donald comedy.

[1173] Look, I'm winning.

[1174] Wait, I have a quick question.

[1175] Yeah, quick question.

[1176] Quick question.

[1177] Going back to what you said about doing this show your whole life, is it exhausting?

[1178] Are you at any point, like, I'm mentally done doing this show?

[1179] show.

[1180] I meant, you know, the, I'm, the answer is yes, but it's not the show.

[1181] I know what you're asking and the answer is yes.

[1182] I am mentally exhausted with myself sometimes.

[1183] Having to be that.

[1184] Well, also just, I'll say it out loud.

[1185] I verbalize a lot of things.

[1186] Like my wife will hear me at night go into the bathroom, you know, to pee or something or she'll hear me brushing my teeth and I'll be like you're a fucking idiot and that's what you do and you'd be like what happened and I'm like no no I just and it's you know I I'm very vocal about I it's not Tourette's I know that's a real thing and I don't have Tourette's but I blur it out come on what the fuck what are we doing what did you do and people who don't know um think that someone came in through the window and I'm fighting them off because they have an exacto blade and I'm fighting them and they don't know that I'm super intense and I think back and visualize mistakes I made in the day or even a mistake I made 15 years ago and I blurred out, you know, the disappointment that I did that and it has, it gets really tiring.

[1187] So I have many times what I say, at work all the time, and you can ask anyone who works with me, I'll go on this long riff and people will be laughing and then I'll say, I'd like to go to the hospital now.

[1188] And when I, and it's this thing, this recurring thing with me is this is this is going to sound really crazy, but I've had this fantasy for years where people listening may not know this, but there was this old tradition in show business back in the 40s and 50s and 30s where entertainers would, they would go to the hospital for a while because of exhaustion.

[1189] And so Jackie Gleason would be checked into a hospital in Miami or something and one of the biggest performers of his day and he'd be in the hospital for a few weeks.

[1190] And there was no medical care going on.

[1191] And I've always had this thought of, I'd like the word to go out that Conan O 'Brien has he's been, he's at Cedar Sinai and he's, he's resting.

[1192] That's all it's gonna say is he's resting.

[1193] And then what happens is I'm there and I have this whole thing worked out in my head.

[1194] I'm not sick.

[1195] I have a nice suite.

[1196] There's no one else in my room.

[1197] I've got a big TV.

[1198] But people come, Dax comes.

[1199] I mean, Adam Sandler drops in.

[1200] Maybe Will Ferrell stops by.

[1201] We chat, we laugh.

[1202] Maybe we watch a movie.

[1203] We cross the street.

[1204] We go to Jerry's.

[1205] They shut it down, but yeah.

[1206] So this happened a few years ago.

[1207] This is my old, yeah.

[1208] This is your tense.

[1209] You fucked up a tense.

[1210] Sorry, continue.

[1211] You know what?

[1212] I shouldn't have snapped at me and you know what?

[1213] You were wrong to snap at me and I was wrong to snap at you.

[1214] But, and I just, I'm in there for a couple of weeks.

[1215] And what happens is people are visiting and then at some point a nurse comes in and goes, Mr. O 'Brien needs to rest and everyone's politely ushered out.

[1216] Now, I'm not wearing hospital garb.

[1217] I'm wearing jeans, but like really nice ugg slippers.

[1218] And a t -shirt and I'm comfortable.

[1219] And then she gives me a pill and I get kind of sleepy.

[1220] And I go to sleep for two hours and then I wake up.

[1221] And then some really nice food is brought in.

[1222] Not the hospital food.

[1223] No, no, sure.

[1224] You know, and then that's about a three -week stay.

[1225] There was a joke similar to that in Bad Moms where Kristen's character, she fantasized about being in a car accident, just bad enough that you'd be in the hospital for like a week.

[1226] Oh.

[1227] You just to relax.

[1228] You know, it's weird.

[1229] You mention that because exactly after I got the late -night show, The whole world is like, who is, who the fuck is this guy?

[1230] What's a Conan O 'Brien?

[1231] Who is he?

[1232] They were mad at NBC anyway because they felt that lettermen had been screwed over.

[1233] And then the quote, gang that can't shoot straight went and found this guy.

[1234] Oh, and everyone's just salivating.

[1235] And it was a nightmare.

[1236] And I remember, it's so funny you say that, thinking, if I was in a car accident.

[1237] Yeah.

[1238] But I wasn't killed.

[1239] But I was fucked up just enough.

[1240] They would get someone else to fill in for me and it wouldn't be my fault.

[1241] Yes.

[1242] By the way, I have so often in life just looking for a way out of anything that it won't be my fault.

[1243] Yes.

[1244] Trying to create some kind of dynamic.

[1245] That's all we want.

[1246] I tried to get out of some relationships and stuff.

[1247] I just wanted to like guilt -free walk away from something where I couldn't be seen as a failure.

[1248] You know, I did you love Letterman?

[1249] Was that your guy?

[1250] Oh, yeah.

[1251] Well, this is going to sound crazy.

[1252] It's going to sound like, no, no, you're making that up after the fact.

[1253] But I used to look at him.

[1254] When I was at Sarnat Live, people used to say, you probably as a wannabe performer wanted to do what they were doing.

[1255] And I would say, no, I never looked at Dana Carvey or Phil Hartman or Mike Myers and said, that should be me. I knew that they did a different thing.

[1256] And then I watched Dave.

[1257] And I thought, that's his voice.

[1258] and he is the center spoke of a world that revolves around his voice.

[1259] And I'm not anything like him.

[1260] I'm very unlike him.

[1261] There are no similarities.

[1262] There are, but go ahead.

[1263] Well, there are probably some similarities, but I'm...

[1264] And they're both smart first.

[1265] Yeah, but I'm, but I'm, I'm goofy.

[1266] I'm physical.

[1267] There's a bunch of things about me that, and he has this whole skill set that I could never have in a million years.

[1268] But I looked at what he was doing and I thought that resonates with me. And I didn't for a second think, oh, I'm as good.

[1269] You know, I never thought that.

[1270] I thought what he's doing where he has this little world that he, where you can create, where you can sustain a certain level of madness and you have your people that emanate out from your vision And that was resonated with me. And so, yeah, I would watch him in college.

[1271] I started watching the morning show and I was in high school.

[1272] And then I watched him in college.

[1273] And I really admired him and thought, like, yeah, this is.

[1274] He was my first kind of major comedy crush, I think.

[1275] But your show started in 93.

[1276] And I was a senior in high school in 93.

[1277] Like, this is kind of when you get into late night, I think.

[1278] And I write out of the game.

[1279] Like when I read stuff that it was some journey for you to get the show, what it became and all that, I'm completely unaware of that.

[1280] I remember watching you because I loved Letterman.

[1281] It was a big deal when he left.

[1282] I remember watching his first show on CBS or whatever network he went to.

[1283] Like I was on a road trip, living in my car for six months.

[1284] I figured out how to get in someone's living room to watch that first.

[1285] It was a big, big deal.

[1286] I was super into it.

[1287] In your show, I was immediately into your show.

[1288] I fucking loved what you did right out of the gates.

[1289] I thought you were spectacular.

[1290] I think what you set out to do, like, okay, Letterman went this far.

[1291] I've got to now kind of go this far.

[1292] I was in from the get -go.

[1293] I loved the show.

[1294] I was so excited to be on your show.

[1295] And this is one of these funny real -life experiences where often when you're in AA, you do your ninth step and you make amends to people.

[1296] And I had the opportunity on like a commercial break on your show to apologize for my first appearance.

[1297] on your show.

[1298] And what often happens when you make an amends, it's not a big deal to the other person.

[1299] Right.

[1300] Which was our case.

[1301] Yes.

[1302] So my thing was I did Coke and I blacked out and I was woken up by security in the hotel room and my publicist.

[1303] And I was with a stranger and one of us had peed the bed.

[1304] And then I rushed to your show and I had done poor Dan Ferguson, who I love so much and you do too.

[1305] I had done the pre -interview and a blackout.

[1306] I don't remember anything.

[1307] I get to your show.

[1308] I come out on stage.

[1309] There had been an animal wrangler out before me. And then my joke when I get out there is you should get separate green rooms for the animals and the guests because I was bit by a snake.

[1310] And then I fall over the chair and I break the table of your show.

[1311] This is the first time I'm on your show.

[1312] And then you start leading me down the path that I'm supposed to be on.

[1313] I don't know what you're talking about.

[1314] You're like, Dax, that's a weird name.

[1315] And I'm like, the way you're looking at me, I'm thinking, I must have a story about my own name that I can't remember right now.

[1316] And the whole interview was like that.

[1317] I got good news for you.

[1318] And this isn't a joke.

[1319] We are coming out with all of the episodes in high resolution, high deaf.

[1320] Seriously, I think in January.

[1321] And so anyone who wants to see episode.

[1322] Well, what's funny is I've told the story publicly and again my perspective so much different than if you're just watching the show like i do fine on my like i don't know what i'm talking about and you're frustrated i'm sure and i'm not telling any of the stories but it's mildly entertaining no one really know watching it yeah but from your point of view you've got like four questions in front of you and i don't know the answers to any four of the questions right and i broke the table right and so regardless i wasn't um invited back or i many times i tried to get back on the show and i did the bookers and it would never have me and then tom Marnell called and pled to somebody and said, it's been sober for a while.

[1323] And they let me back on one more time.

[1324] And then I did okay.

[1325] And then I've been back a bunch times.

[1326] But anyways, during the commercial break, I said to you, Hey, man, I just really want to say sorry that I had.

[1327] What's so funny is that all I wanted was to be on your show.

[1328] I've been like working towards getting on the show.

[1329] And that's how I prepare to be on your show is I go do drugs.

[1330] Yeah, yeah.

[1331] And I say, I'm so sorry I did that.

[1332] And you go, I don't know, you wouldn't remember this.

[1333] You go, oh, you wouldn't even make the top 10.

[1334] Oh, disasters we've had with people fucked up.

[1335] That's the other thing is, in your mind, it was this huge embarrassment.

[1336] Embarrassment.

[1337] But again, there's nothing like the volume business of late night television, which is just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

[1338] Hundreds and now I've done over 4 ,000 hours.

[1339] Oh, my God.

[1340] And then you multiply that by three people a night.

[1341] what I always respect and honor is when people, I mean, there are people that consistently don't try, and there are people that consistently come on and sort of disrespect the form.

[1342] And then at a certain point, and it's not because they have a drug addiction or an alcohol addiction.

[1343] They just do that.

[1344] And then I, you know, you lose patience with those people.

[1345] Sure.

[1346] But, well, they're probably, And then they go, I'd rather act like I'm too cool for this than you get caught trying and failing.

[1347] Maybe is that the...

[1348] Yes.

[1349] You want to be empathetic.

[1350] I've noticed over the years time and time again that it's very rare when an actor from the UK, Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales will come on the show and not be a good storyteller.

[1351] It's part of the tradition of being an English actor.

[1352] Now, the exception, I'm sure, proves the rule and there are people that are bad at it.

[1353] But I'm always blown away by the fact that guests from the UK, there's a verbal, there's a, they stress somewhere or it's something in the water.

[1354] But the great, think about it, a lot of the great actors from the United Kingdom, like a Richard Burton was a terrific storyteller or Sir Richard Harris.

[1355] or a Peter O'Toole.

[1356] I mean, there's this tradition that these guys, and then you look at...

[1357] They can hold your attention.

[1358] They hold your attention, and they tell you a tail.

[1359] Right, right.

[1360] And they spin a yarn and...

[1361] It has a three -act structure.

[1362] And it's beautiful.

[1363] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1364] And I've always said when guys like that, when I've encountered the equivalent of that on my show, and I got to talk to, you know, Richard Harris, and I got to talk to some of these people over the years, I always told them in the commercial break, man, James Dean ruined actors for American talk shows because James Dean and Marlon Brando, the brooding, the brooding, mumbling, you know, I have to do this.

[1365] It's almost like if they're funny and silly in that show, they won't ever be taken serious again as an actor.

[1366] Yes.

[1367] Also, it's just the tail wagging the dog.

[1368] You know, it's if I'm difficult, Then I must be a genius.

[1369] Yeah.

[1370] No, be a genius first.

[1371] And then if the side effect is your difficult, will accept it.

[1372] Right.

[1373] But don't be difficult in the hopes that maybe you're a genius.

[1374] Yeah, the foundation.

[1375] And this will be one part of that piece of pie that you need to construct.

[1376] But when you said you don't even make the top 10, is there a cut, can you think of one or two where the, where the guest was just annihilated and you thought, how am I going to navigate this?

[1377] Or we're going to need help on this.

[1378] The direct, because I'm blanking on his name, the director of the bad lieutenant.

[1379] Oh, Herzog?

[1380] No, it was not Herzog.

[1381] Abel Farrar.

[1382] Abel Farrar.

[1383] Abel Farrar, just to put you at ease.

[1384] Okay.

[1385] Abel Farrar was a director, eccentric director, who, and I think a brilliant guy got booked on our show and he's a wild eccentric and he his segment producer has been with me since the beginning Frank Smiley was in charge of him was in charge of him and he fled during the show before his segment he ran away, got on the elevator and was out on the street running away and Frank gave chase Oh my goodness.

[1386] And grabbed him.

[1387] And I think he may have gave chase.

[1388] And no one has said gave chase.

[1389] I'm so happy you did.

[1390] Since the Lincoln assassination.

[1391] One corporal gave chase, but Booth escaped.

[1392] So, yeah, Frank caught him.

[1393] Okay.

[1394] Let him back.

[1395] Made him pushing him.

[1396] Got him backstage.

[1397] He came on camera against his will.

[1398] Okay.

[1399] So he was like, got captive.

[1400] and then came out, and I think started yelling at me. Oh, my goodness.

[1401] And this is, I mean, look it up.

[1402] I'm gonna.

[1403] This is, uh, do you think he was intoxicated?

[1404] Yes.

[1405] I mean, I'm sure.

[1406] Or if not, he should have been.

[1407] But, and it was, it was entertaining.

[1408] I think I remembered it being kind of like, if you ate 15 clothes of garlic, you wouldn't say that was a great experience, but you'd remember it.

[1409] Right.

[1410] Uh, it was what we call compelavision.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] But there have been moments like that where there have been people that, came out that would give yes, no answers and not even look at me. Abel Farr...

[1413] Would you ever get, like, would you ever be in hair and makeup and someone coming, Hey, Conan, so, you know, Mike, your first guest, he's, he's pretty drunk and he's drinking in the green room.

[1414] Like, would you ever get a heads up like that there's a storm brewing?

[1415] I get a heads up that's someone that a cast member on a certain show where everyone's trapped on an island has had way too much to drink.

[1416] and comes out and you can smell it.

[1417] Oh, wow.

[1418] And they think they're funnier.

[1419] All they do is laugh at the things they say and the pauses they take are way too long.

[1420] But in their mind, they're killing it.

[1421] Right, they're razor sharp.

[1422] And then their publicist tells them you killed it.

[1423] Absolutely.

[1424] That's what you're paying them to do.

[1425] Yeah.

[1426] Is there any moment when they're hammered, when that's happened where you thought, Oh, I'm going to take advantage of this.

[1427] Like, this could be, or is that really your nature?

[1428] You're always the butt of your jokes.

[1429] Letterman was very good at being a dick, but you loved him.

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] He, like, he could annihilate the right people.

[1432] He always chose well who he was going to pick on.

[1433] Yes.

[1434] And it always was great.

[1435] And somehow he could do that.

[1436] But yeah, that's just not your brand.

[1437] That is not, well, it's not even a choice.

[1438] I mean, I'd like to say, I'd love to say it's a moral choice, but it's not.

[1439] It's just not an arrow in my quiver.

[1440] Like, I don't have that.

[1441] You know, it's funny because there's a Conan that hosts the show behind the scenes that I can really make the writers howl laughing.

[1442] And it's mean.

[1443] Sure, sure, sure.

[1444] It's really mean.

[1445] And sort of sometimes they can't, they're like they cover their mouths because they can't believe.

[1446] So I have it in me. You need a safe place.

[1447] Seinfeld talks about this on Stern a couple different times.

[1448] He's got a buddy he calls every morning.

[1449] And he's like, you need the one buddy you can call up and say the worst things ever that you would never say in public.

[1450] You need to kind of flush the system a little bit.

[1451] I have a thing I play called what's the worst thing I could do.

[1452] Oh, I love that game.

[1453] I'm constantly thinking of in this moment what would be the thing that would really end of my career.

[1454] and I do it in great detail.

[1455] And I do it sometimes at moments of national tragedy where I think, what if I tried to promote my show during this national tragedy?

[1456] No, it's just one of those things.

[1457] I can spin out in great detail these horrific stories where I'm at the center of it doing the worst.

[1458] And I do this all the time.

[1459] I go into the booking department.

[1460] Paula Davis always has the tabloids there and I pick it up.

[1461] And I very convincingly open it up.

[1462] And I go, why do you have this tabloid out if I'm in it?

[1463] And she'll go, oh my God, I didn't know.

[1464] And I'll be like, and then I'll start to read a fake story.

[1465] And I'll narrate it without stopping.

[1466] And it's like Conan O 'Brien, the carrot -topped quipster, you know, and a late night luminary in quotes, you know, entered the so -and -so restaurant in Los Angeles and said, the king is here loudly, please, sir, sit down, you're upsetting the guests, said a boy in a wheelchair.

[1467] Quiet, wheelie, said O 'Brien, shoving the wheelchair over.

[1468] How dare you hurt that boy, cried an older woman, you know, if you were 50 years younger, you'd be sort of attractive, snarled the late night brick -topped, you know, and I do it out, and everyone's laughing, but it's this complete chance for me to create a world.

[1469] where I'm the biggest asshole in the world.

[1470] Listen.

[1471] And it always ends up with me loudly shit my pants in the restaurant.

[1472] I'm escorted out.

[1473] I hit a nun in the eye.

[1474] And then, you know, and say, she'll be fine.

[1475] Jesus, bitch, you know, whatever.

[1476] Craziness, absolute madness.

[1477] I played the exact same game for six years on parenthood.

[1478] And it was basically I would create a sentence you have to say, they've asked you to present at the Academy Award.

[1479] and here's the sentence you have to say.

[1480] And basically, I want to know what the price tag is because every sentence I create, you're done.

[1481] That's the last sentence you'll ever see in public.

[1482] The end of your career.

[1483] And there's something so appealing about doing that and just something about it going, okay, well, that's over.

[1484] Now I can stop obsessing about this whole thing.

[1485] Yes.

[1486] I've ended it permanently.

[1487] Now I'm done.

[1488] And now I get to go and teach literature at a small college in Maine.

[1489] That's right.

[1490] You've engineered your departure.

[1491] I'm done.

[1492] I figured it out.

[1493] Okay.

[1494] Well, listen, You've been very generous with your time.

[1495] Have I, though?

[1496] You really, really have.

[1497] The only other thing I want to say that I just want to commend you because my wife has always been very brave in doing this.

[1498] And I think it's so helpful to so many people.

[1499] She's always been very honest about having depression, about having medication.

[1500] Yeah.

[1501] And I think it's really relevant because, you know, as I look up to you and I recognize the crazy work ethic, I also recognize that the illness can be a part of the process.

[1502] Yeah.

[1503] And it's so scary to disconnect yourself from this thing that's worked.

[1504] I mean, I can only compare it to myself, which is being an addict.

[1505] Like part of my, and suffering, I write, my motivation is you're a piece of shit failure, lazy scumbag.

[1506] And if you don't do this, you're that.

[1507] You know, like I motivate myself by this self -hatred and self -loathing.

[1508] And I just aspire, and I've made progress, but I want to work from a place that's different.

[1509] And I think it's possible, but it's so scary, isn't it?

[1510] Well, you know, my dad is a very smart, thoughtful guy, and he's been sort of watching me now for 55 years.

[1511] My dad said to me, I think I was just a couple of years into the late night show, and he had watched every episode.

[1512] And he called me up once, and he said, I see now.

[1513] I see.

[1514] And I said, what do you see?

[1515] And he said, you're making your living off of something that should be treated.

[1516] And he wasn't, he was kind of, he's making a joke.

[1517] Sure.

[1518] But it's also not a joke.

[1519] And I. As many of the great jokes are.

[1520] Yeah, that's all the great jokes are just the truth.

[1521] The highs are very high of getting to be funny in front of people.

[1522] And then the lows.

[1523] and the anxiety and the blackness is just awful.

[1524] And so it's really funny because the biggest thing I was afraid of, and I would talk to people, I used to think I need this, I need to be unhappy to be funny.

[1525] Mm -hmm.

[1526] And Andy Richter, the great Andy Richter, the great Andy Richter who is one of the funniest people I've ever met and ever will meet.

[1527] He, I talked to him because I really was, sensing I need to get help, but I don't want to take something because then what if I can't do this anymore?

[1528] And Andy said, you might find it's easier to be funny.

[1529] You might find that this has actually been getting in the way.

[1530] Oh, yeah.

[1531] Wow.

[1532] And that was a huge, I mean, I owe Andy for saying that because he was encouraging me. And but yeah, when I went and got it.

[1533] I went and went and saw a psychopharmacologist and had a long interview and I kept saying, I'm not depressed, I'm just anxious, I'm just anxious.

[1534] And she said, do you realize that anxiety is a form of depression?

[1535] Right.

[1536] And I said, I didn't know that.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] So I was like, my hand was shaking when she handed me the, you know, prescription note.

[1539] I was, it was shaking like, I don't want to deal with this and I don't want to go to CVS and get this.

[1540] And I remember thinking, what if someone sees me getting, like, what?

[1541] Well, also doesn't it immediately in that moment transform from a mood swing to a condition or like a permanent state that you will have to treat?

[1542] And then you realize that it doesn't, I'm not on, you know, I'm on.

[1543] You're on lithium.

[1544] I think we can tell everyone.

[1545] Powerful.

[1546] I'm having a lithium drip.

[1547] Too bad we're not videotaping this.

[1548] But isn't it funny?

[1549] even within people who will acknowledge, yeah, I'm on this, then there's still yet a tiny compulsion to go, but I'm not on a ton.

[1550] It's all weird, right?

[1551] The whole thing is stupid that there would be any shame.

[1552] It's, for me, it's good old East Coast, and this is, it's just many places, but my strain of it is East Coast, Catholic, Irish.

[1553] Do your job, don't whine, shut the fuck up.

[1554] Don't be a baby.

[1555] And don't be a baby.

[1556] And, you know, you get to a point where it's like, yeah but going out every day and doing an hour in front of people and having to be on from in that hour and then plus some fucker wants you to do his podcast totally you know and you don't like him well i'm doing yours let's be fair oh do i have a podcast you're launching a podcast hey let's talk about that i would love to you're launching a podcast and what would be a nice what i've observed from the outside in your life is that and maybe it's correlated to getting medicated and feeling maybe a little more calmness.

[1557] You seem to be now taking your career in a direction that's more just self -fulfillment.

[1558] Like you travel now, you've decided.

[1559] Your show's going to change.

[1560] Yes, we're going from an hour to a half hour.

[1561] And it's totally because I wanted to focus on, let's do the stuff that I really love.

[1562] And let's not do the stuff that I used to love, but I don't love as much anymore.

[1563] Yeah.

[1564] And so let's do a half -hour show.

[1565] show.

[1566] My analogy is a really good restaurant.

[1567] You go in and they're serving what's the best catch of the day.

[1568] What's the, you know what I mean?

[1569] What's, what are we really thinking is funny today?

[1570] What do we really want to do today rather than we got to fill?

[1571] These shows were invented in the 40s, late 40s to fill time.

[1572] Right.

[1573] And I think a lot of the tropes from that era still exist when no one needs to fill time anymore.

[1574] Because there's hundreds of, And hundreds and hundreds of thousands of late night shows.

[1575] And so the old days, they're literally filling time.

[1576] And there are things that I was doing on my show.

[1577] Well, you got to have that second guest.

[1578] All right, folks, we're back.

[1579] And I got a third guest because, well, no, why?

[1580] It doesn't make sense.

[1581] So we're doing that.

[1582] And then occurred to me that all these years that I'd been on the air.

[1583] and to an observer like either one of you, you'd think, oh, Conan meets all these people and he's friends with them.

[1584] Right.

[1585] And that's a common misconception is people are always saying, hey, you're good friends with these people.

[1586] And I realized, I'm not friends with, I'm friends with very few of them.

[1587] I, most the people that come to my Christmas party are people that work for me. Like Mr. Burns.

[1588] They're getting, yeah, they're getting a check for me. And I think they like working for me. And they, I'm a good, I like to think I'm a good boss, but so I thought it'd be fun to do a podcast called Conan O 'Brien needs a friend where I talk to people about why aren't we?

[1589] Like, for example, you know, I could say to you, Dax, like, we're not really friends.

[1590] We are friendly, but we're not really friends.

[1591] No, but I can tell you from my perspective, I definitely thought over the years as I've come on your show, like, oh, I get along with you, great.

[1592] You have zero interest in hanging out with me. That's not true.

[1593] What you, you had, I would have hung out with you in a heartbeat.

[1594] I know it's not true because you got my email and you emailed me. Yeah, emailed you and what did you do?

[1595] Emailed you back.

[1596] Yeah, and then what happened?

[1597] Well, we hung out once in Santa Barbara.

[1598] Let's just be honest, we do have a geographical challenge.

[1599] We're on opposite sides of Los Angeles.

[1600] We did have a dinner date lined up.

[1601] We did and I fucked that up.

[1602] And excuse me, who fucked it up?

[1603] I did.

[1604] Yeah, you blew it up.

[1605] I did.

[1606] And then you said, we'll do it another time.

[1607] Yeah.

[1608] And we're going to.

[1609] And we're going to.

[1610] You got 100 % are.

[1611] That was months ago.

[1612] Listen, now I know you're, all I'm saying is this is the point.

[1613] The point of my podcast is getting a chance to say, Dax, you made a dinner date with me. That's right.

[1614] I cleared my schedule.

[1615] Then day of you canceled.

[1616] Well, I don't think it was day.

[1617] Day of you canceled.

[1618] Well, then.

[1619] What's great is when I come on your podcast, I'll have got the emails and I'll bring them and I'll out you to be a liar.

[1620] I would never cancel day of.

[1621] How dare you in my attic.

[1622] Fuck you, Conan O 'Brien.

[1623] It was definitely a few days.

[1624] You're going to go on record, say a few days?

[1625] Yeah, yeah.

[1626] You want to go on record and say a few days?

[1627] Yeah, I do.

[1628] I do.

[1629] Okay.

[1630] This is great.

[1631] Listen, all you have to do, if anywhere you can get a podcast, you can sign up for this now, it's Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[1632] And you're coming on very soon.

[1633] This is a good tease.

[1634] And you are going to hear the truth.

[1635] It'll be revealed.

[1636] of why Dax and I didn't have that dinner.

[1637] And you know what?

[1638] One of us is lying.

[1639] That's for certain.

[1640] Or both of us.

[1641] Also an option.

[1642] In this town, that would be the likely option.

[1643] That would be the likely option.

[1644] Well, really, we, I, from the bottom of my heart, I have a deep desire to be friends because we're history nerds.

[1645] Good.

[1646] Love it.

[1647] And you're learning to ride a motorcycle?

[1648] I've been riding a motorcycle for several years.

[1649] I just have.

[1650] I didn't say that correctly.

[1651] I learning sounds like I have training wheels.

[1652] It does.

[1653] Do they have training wheels?

[1654] That was an emasculating way to say.

[1655] You emasculated me. You're newly into motorcycles, I guess.

[1656] Yeah, I have a deal with my wife and with myself.

[1657] I have certain rules.

[1658] I only ride it in the house.

[1659] Right.

[1660] In a tight circle.

[1661] That's great.

[1662] But it's really fun.

[1663] So listen, I can't wait to come on your podcast, which is Conner Brian needs a friend.

[1664] Connor Brian needs a friend.

[1665] Available everywhere, a podcast.

[1666] And I am.

[1667] want to be first in line to be one of those friends and I'm going to do this is my pledge regardless of how it goes on that episode it's going to go very well for you you're going to you're going to win you think you think I I get a canceled day of impossible but we'll find out and look at monica's nervous I'm on team Conan for this oh geez what I'm going to say is the idea that you canceled several days in advance no abject lie abject lie okay that's a desperate man do you do you do you know why the excuse he gave it was about work he said he said had to work late that night.

[1668] Can you, yeah.

[1669] Pretty legit excuse, by the way.

[1670] Pretty fucking legit excuse.

[1671] I didn't like, all right.

[1672] Well, we're going to find out.

[1673] It was Christmas Day.

[1674] I'm working pretty late tonight.

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] If we can figure out a way to be friends where works involved, it's a no -brainer.

[1677] We'll be able to do it.

[1678] Can Rob and I be your friend too?

[1679] That's not happening.

[1680] Great, great, great, great, good.

[1681] Being honest.

[1682] Well, Conan, I love you.

[1683] I really have always had, I think I've had definitely my, my funnest talk show times on your show.

[1684] Oh, I'm glad.

[1685] I like to be with people who like to play.

[1686] And that is the joy of, you know, over the years of just, it's so fun when you can, when this is work, something's wrong.

[1687] Yeah.

[1688] And sometimes it has to be, but.

[1689] If you can relax and breathe and, yeah, be present and experiencing it.

[1690] It's pretty spectacular.

[1691] Yeah.

[1692] Yeah.

[1693] All right, well, I adore you, and I can't wait to be on your podcast.

[1694] I'm thrilled to be here.

[1695] Thank you for having me. Let's talk again soon.

[1696] Great.

[1697] I peed my pants about 40 minutes ago.

[1698] I don't know if you did.

[1699] You have a tiny bladder?

[1700] I got a disproportionate.

[1701] Really?

[1702] That means other things are disproportionate.

[1703] Yeah, it's micropenus if that's what you're getting at.

[1704] Yeah.

[1705] I'm not sure I believe that.

[1706] Yeah.

[1707] All right.

[1708] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1709] Very few people are going to get this song, Monica, because it was a barely seen movie from my youth.

[1710] So I can't even imagine if you're under 43.

[1711] This will ring any bells.

[1712] But I'm going to honor, currently we have a movie in the marketplace about Freddie Mercury.

[1713] That's true.

[1714] And Freddie Mercury did a song, an original song for a Flash Gordon movie in the 80s, maybe even late 70s.

[1715] And I'm now going to replace that song.

[1716] make it our song.

[1717] You ready?

[1718] Yep.

[1719] Checks.

[1720] Ah!

[1721] She is the ruler of the universe.

[1722] Do do, do.

[1723] Fax, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts.

[1724] Fax, fax, fax, fax, fax, fax, she is the ruler of the universe.

[1725] Do do do, do, do, do, do.

[1726] You can imagine what was said instead of facts.

[1727] Flash.

[1728] Oh.

[1729] He is the ruler of the universe.

[1730] Oh, cool.

[1731] And that's virtually all the least.

[1732] lyrics in the song.

[1733] And was it a hit?

[1734] No, but it was repeated over and over again throughout the movie.

[1735] And as a seven -year -old boy, I loved it.

[1736] Yeah, it sounds.

[1737] Anthemic?

[1738] Yeah, it does.

[1739] Like a call to action.

[1740] It does.

[1741] It does.

[1742] Were there, uh, were there any juicy facts in Conianne, O 'Brien?

[1743] Yes, there were some facts.

[1744] Um, you said that states without lane splitting have a high percentage of motorcycle fatalities coming from rear -ending, which is why you are condoning lane -splitting.

[1745] Pro -lane splitting?

[1746] I didn't really find any numbers about the fatalities and the rear -endings and stuff, but the president and CEO of the American Motorcyclist Association says, lane splitting keeps riders safer by eliminating their exposure to rear -end collisions, and it helps ease congestion by effectively removing motorcycles from the traffic lanes.

[1747] So that is the defense.

[1748] And did I say in the episode how it started, I probably did, of why we even have it in California and nowhere else, because motorcycles up until the 80s were all air -cooled.

[1749] And so they needed to keep moving or they would overheat.

[1750] And there was all these motorcycles broken down in the middle of traffic causing further traffic issues or on the side of the road where they were a side of the road where they were safety hazard.

[1751] So they decided, well, we just got to keep these things moving so they don't overheat.

[1752] I see.

[1753] That makes sense.

[1754] But why only California?

[1755] Because it's so hot here and the traffic was so bad.

[1756] Motorcycles are sitting.

[1757] What about Florida?

[1758] Well, again, I think, well, I've been to places where for me. I rode once my old Harley through Denver and you can't lane split there and it was air cooled and I had a passenger and it was a hundred and I was really concerned and it started knocking a little bit like it was overheating and then I thought their traffic's probably knew relative to LA's traffic the Denver traffic issue probably you know came about in the 80s or 90s and then most motorcycles were water cooled so it probably wasn't a huge issue that they had to confront like interesting like our home state oh Conan joked that you've been riding motorcycle since you were two.

[1759] You came out of the womb on one.

[1760] Okay.

[1761] So when did you start writing?

[1762] Did you ask my mother if a motorcycle had passed through her canal?

[1763] I felt confident that that was not the case.

[1764] So no, I guess I didn't do my due diligence, but I'm probably right.

[1765] Yeah, you're right.

[1766] Yeah.

[1767] So when did you start riding motorcycles?

[1768] Well, my brother had a YZ80 that he taught me how to ride on.

[1769] in our yard on Terra Road or street in our neighborhood when I was six years old.

[1770] You taught me how to use the clutch and the gears.

[1771] I crashed several times.

[1772] He ran next to me. He was trying to be a good dad.

[1773] Yeah, that's nice.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] But when you're 11, you're teaching a six -year -old to ride an ABCC.

[1776] Motorcycle, sometimes you don't have the best game plan either.

[1777] Sure.

[1778] But, hey, I learned how to ride it.

[1779] The intention was there.

[1780] Oh, in spades.

[1781] Okay, so he said that when he goes to the doctor or when he goes to the dentist, like he doesn't feel the novacane and that the dentist would say like, oh, you're one of those redheads.

[1782] So then I looked into that and it's true.

[1783] Really?

[1784] Yeah.

[1785] I mean, it was known as a myth for a long time, but then there's been some studies on it since.

[1786] And it's like.

[1787] That redheads don't feel the effects of Novacane?

[1788] So the MCR -1 receptor, which is the thing that I was saying was defective.

[1789] In Conan.

[1790] In redheads.

[1791] Yeah.

[1792] Because that is what makes like basically brunette hair.

[1793] I don't remember all the details, but there's a gene mutation on that.

[1794] There we go.

[1795] Which mutation is the birth of all evolution.

[1796] Great.

[1797] Still defective because it can't make brunette hair.

[1798] So.

[1799] If that goal is to make brunette hair.

[1800] So those receptors.

[1801] the MCR -1 receptors, they appear in the mid -brain where pain perception is regulated.

[1802] So there's evidence the gene also influences our response to injury and discomfort.

[1803] Oh.

[1804] Mm -hmm.

[1805] So since 2000, a handful of small studies have examined the connection between redheadness and pain.

[1806] A Louisville University team led by anesthesiologist.

[1807] I'll never be able to say that.

[1808] Anesthesiologist.

[1809] Daniel Sessler found that redheads require 19 % more inhaled, general anesthesia.

[1810] No kidding.

[1811] Then their darker -haired counterparts.

[1812] Did you ask Jess if he's seen like that one of his superpowers is he's impervious to pain?

[1813] I didn't.

[1814] But the converse of this is that redheads of both genders need less of an opioid morphine to dull their pain.

[1815] Oh, that's counterintuitive.

[1816] That seems like it'd be the opposite.

[1817] It is.

[1818] But I guess there's two separate things happening there with the, with the, with, the medication and the anesthesia and ovacain and then opioids.

[1819] Well, now this helps give a little bit of scientific foundation to something I've anecdotally observed growing up.

[1820] I only have a few rules on who I won't fight.

[1821] You've heard them.

[1822] You want to hear them again?

[1823] One rule of mine when I was younger was if something happens at a streetlight and temperatures flare and both gentlemen get out of the car.

[1824] And one of the gentlemen immediately removes his shirt.

[1825] What you should glean from that is that man's ruined so many shirts fighting at stoplights that he's learned to take it off before fighting.

[1826] So that's just a little bit of a tip that maybe you want to diffuse this interaction.

[1827] That's a smart tip.

[1828] Yeah.

[1829] Another one I used to have when again, I went to bars is, you know, a guy that's kind of quiet with a wedding ring on, drinking by himself you pick a fight with him he's not fighting you he's fighting his wife his children the oppression of the world around him it's so layered and you know it's there's more going on than whatever's happening between you uh -huh third is if you can avoid fighting a redhead and this is what i observed growing up in grade school and junior high and high school is i saw many an outsized redhead get into a fight, get very emotional.

[1830] I saw many redheads crying while fighting, but then victorious, seemingly impervious to pain and assault.

[1831] But I've also heard they're more sensitive to touch and temperature.

[1832] Oh my goodness.

[1833] So, we're really treating them like they're another species on this podcast.

[1834] I said, I said defective.

[1835] We can do that, though, because they're not marginalized in our society.

[1836] Look at Conan.

[1837] He's on top of the world.

[1838] Yeah, he's doing great.

[1839] Yeah.

[1840] He's doing better than me. I brought up the one thing I learned in anthropology about redheads is that they're the only homogeneous group not attracted to each other.

[1841] Jess has said that too.

[1842] That's a scientific fact.

[1843] So generally people that look the same are attracted to one another, but not redheads.

[1844] They tend to want to date outside of being a red.

[1845] You rarely see two redheads together.

[1846] That's interesting.

[1847] Fascinating.

[1848] Maybe we should do an entire week on redheads.

[1849] Sure.

[1850] You think so?

[1851] I'd love to do that.

[1852] There's got to be more mysteries.

[1853] If we've uncovered all this doing very little digging, there's probably a panacea of interesting details about redheads.

[1854] Definitely.

[1855] Oh, also let me throw out there.

[1856] Read, I think it's Tom Robbins.

[1857] Still Life with Woodpecker.

[1858] Still Life with Woodpecker is a phenomenal book.

[1859] And one of the central themes is Redheads.

[1860] Oh.

[1861] And how special they are.

[1862] Oh.

[1863] Yeah.

[1864] And it really makes you covet.

[1865] Mutated.

[1866] Well, mutated is.

[1867] is special.

[1868] Sure.

[1869] Yeah.

[1870] So you should love it.

[1871] It's rare.

[1872] I do love it.

[1873] I love redheads.

[1874] I love Jess.

[1875] Mm -hmm.

[1876] One of my favorite people.

[1877] Who doesn't?

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] Is 2048 an election year?

[1880] Yes.

[1881] Oh, it is.

[1882] It is an election year.

[1883] Was IBM sending over computers to help the Nazis?

[1884] Mm -hmm.

[1885] Yes, they were.

[1886] Yeah, good, good, good.

[1887] They were.

[1888] But they weren't computers then.

[1889] It was a punch card system.

[1890] But, yeah, they were very instrumental in helping the Third Reich.

[1891] Yeah, I'm really glad that you confirm that because I could have had a real liable case on my hands.

[1892] Yeah, when you said it and I had to write it down, I was really shaking my head.

[1893] But then you were absolutely right.

[1894] I guess IBM does not really acknowledge this.

[1895] Sure.

[1896] It's a bit of a regrettable part of their business history.

[1897] It is, but it is real.

[1898] Yeah.

[1899] Okay.

[1900] Conan wrote for the Simpsons for season four and season five.

[1901] There was some questions about when he wrote for this.

[1902] What seasons?

[1903] It was four and five.

[1904] So he talks about his fantasy of going to the hospital for a stay for a few weeks.

[1905] And then you reference Kristen's monologue in Bad Mom, which wants to get hit by a car.

[1906] Uh -huh.

[1907] And then I remembered that when I was cheerleading, when I was first starting and really and basically up until the very end, I was like praying to get hurt and not have to compete.

[1908] Really?

[1909] Yeah.

[1910] I really.

[1911] Because you had so much anxiety about not performing well in the meet.

[1912] Yeah.

[1913] And it would be easier to just have a good excuse.

[1914] Yep.

[1915] Yeah, I think a lot of us do that.

[1916] Yeah.

[1917] It's really crazy, right?

[1918] Mm -hmm.

[1919] Pretty crazy.

[1920] It never happened.

[1921] Well, you did rip your Achilles.

[1922] I did.

[1923] Well, my hamstring.

[1924] But that was after I stopped caring about that.

[1925] Then I was really confident, but then it happened.

[1926] But then I still had to perform.

[1927] It's ironic.

[1928] Mm -hmm.

[1929] Yeah.

[1930] I'm trying to think if I ever had anything looming over me that was that stressful, that I was praying for some kind of intervention.

[1931] intervention.

[1932] Divine intervention.

[1933] Yeah.

[1934] It's funny you'd bring this up because I have a friend who's an actress who's been one since she was a child actor.

[1935] She has a lot of medical issues, recurring medical issues.

[1936] And part of me wonders if that was the only safe way she could stop the treadmill of being a child actor because it was more important, obviously.

[1937] That's because she would have felt bad maybe saying, I need a break.

[1938] Yeah.

[1939] So your body gives you a break.

[1940] Also, give me a break, give me a break and break me off a piece of that Kit Kat Bar.

[1941] I love a Kit Kat Bar.

[1942] What do you think about doing fact check songs that are jingles?

[1943] Sure.

[1944] Give me some facts.

[1945] Give me some facts.

[1946] And break me off a piece of that fact check bar.

[1947] That's nice.

[1948] That's probably better than the Flash one I did earlier.

[1949] One of the funniest jokes I've ever seen on TV is in the American office, there's an episode where Andy, played by Ed Helms, can't remember the end of that jingle.

[1950] So the whole episode, he's like, he's replacing Kit Kat Bar with all of these crazy phrases.

[1951] It is so funny.

[1952] It's really, really funny.

[1953] I love Ed Helms.

[1954] Yeah.

[1955] Hey, Edward, get in here.

[1956] Yeah, we'd love to have.

[1957] Why are you hiding from us?

[1958] Eddie on here.

[1959] I mean, he is another white male, but I still really want to talk to him.

[1960] I'd love to talk to him.

[1961] Okay, so we ended the conversation.

[1962] You were going on his podcast and there was a debate as to whether or not you canceled on him day of.

[1963] Now, do you have facts?

[1964] I do.

[1965] Okay.

[1966] Did you cancel on him day off?

[1967] Well, here's my only question.

[1968] When does his episode come out?

[1969] Because the whole thing was in order to help drive people that episode for the resolution.

[1970] I'd feel a little bit unethical taking away the, Okay.

[1971] Well, you just said that you would never cancel a day of and I don't think that's true.

[1972] I'm not judging.

[1973] I reschedule all the time day of.

[1974] Right.

[1975] Sort of my thing.

[1976] That's your patented move.

[1977] Monica Padman sucker punch.

[1978] Reschedule her.

[1979] I do it.

[1980] That's it.

[1981] That's everything.

[1982] That is.

[1983] Well, did you find yourself in awe of his mental powers?

[1984] Absolutely.

[1985] He was really wonderful.

[1986] I was.

[1987] Yeah.

[1988] You and I are horny for intellect, aren't we?

[1989] Yeah.

[1990] Oh, is it?

[1991] It's really, really powerful.

[1992] He has quite an abundance of it as well.

[1993] Yeah.

[1994] Yeah, he was great.

[1995] Maybe there should be erotica for people like us.

[1996] Like there's step brother and sister pornography.

[1997] There's step parent pornography.

[1998] There's every single niche of pornography.

[1999] I don't know that there's one where someone recites the Magna Carta and that.

[2000] then the other person just has a visible boner from it, you know?

[2001] Yeah, the problem is with that is it's not like, I mean, I do like learning, but the attraction is not because they know facts.

[2002] It's because they can critically think and then manifest those facts into some interesting conversation.

[2003] Agreed.

[2004] No one would be interested in Google.

[2005] It's the critical thinking part that's so, second.

[2006] Yeah, exactly.

[2007] So you're right.

[2008] Maybe not reciting the Magna Carnival.

[2009] Well, maybe before they have sex, they can just have an interesting conversation.

[2010] Or like some kind of complex IQ riddle.

[2011] You know?

[2012] That's interesting.

[2013] Now you've got my attention.

[2014] There's a little bit of foreplay.

[2015] You do like maybe the Mensa application.

[2016] Yeah, I like that.

[2017] And just see what happens.

[2018] And then clothes start coming off.

[2019] That's right.

[2020] With every right answer.

[2021] Yeah, I like this.

[2022] Well, Monica, thanks for those facts.

[2023] I love you.

[2024] You're welcome, I love you.

[2025] And happy Thanksgiving to you.

[2026] It's not Thanksgiving anymore.

[2027] Okay.

[2028] Bye.

[2029] Merry Christmas.

[2030] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2031] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app.

[2032] or on Apple Podcasts.

[2033] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.