Recognizing You Have a Problem Is 90% of Solving the Problem

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show and the Smart Money Happy Hour co -host.

[2] My daughter, Rachel Cruz, is my co -host today.

[3] Open phones at AAA -8255 -225.

[4] Thank you for joining us, America.

[5] We're so glad you're here.

[6] Shane is in Denver.

[7] Hi, Shane.

[8] What's up?

[9] Good afternoon, sir.

[10] How are you doing today?

[11] Better than we deserve.

[12] How can we help?

[13] Of course.

[14] Yeah, hey, I was, I'm just calling to, my wife and I, we bought our house in 2021 for about, we bought it for $500 ,000.

[15] We put $100 down on it.

[16] We had about $100 in our savings account that we kept in there, too, for our emergency fund.

[17] uh we have now paid it down to about two it's we owe about two 80 on it as today very good um so in three years we've uh we've put down another 115 000 into it you're killing it um we're we have no debt our cars are paid off we have no debt and we have still about a hundred in our savings account today as well um we are worried about the house economy crashing here in the next six to six months or so, and our mortgage rate is at 2 .5%.

[18] Let me stop you.

[19] I'm sorry.

[20] Why are you worried about the housing economy in Denver, Colorado, crashing?

[21] I don't know.

[22] I think my, I don't know.

[23] My wife is, she's more of a realist than I am.

[24] And so I'm just kind of going with the flow, and we're just trying to.

[25] to.

[26] I'm sorry, what does being a realist mean?

[27] You mean a pessimist?

[28] I guess so.

[29] I'm not trying to talk down on her.

[30] Oh, I wasn't either.

[31] I'm just saying there's a realist to someone who observes facts.

[32] There are no facts in the marketplace that indicated the housing crash in Denver, Colorado, in the next six months.

[33] Absolutely zero facts.

[34] Well, that's good to know.

[35] And then also we're trying to, we're wanting to see if we should sell our house.

[36] and then collect or revenue collect it's already at 700 no no okay you guys need to get off the internet that's what I say too yeah I'm sitting next to the Ramsey the Ramsey family conspiracy theorist I don't know when AT &T went out last month Rachel what is the what's the Denver housing conspiracy I missed this one you're up on all the conspiracies it does have the Denver airport you are close to the bunker that could happen if it all goes down, Shane.

[37] That's your greatest asset right now.

[38] Again, at the same time, too, my son, we have a seven -year -old son, and I travel a lot for work in the state, and we're trying to maybe move to the southern part of Colorado to where I don't have to travel as much, and I can work from my office down there.

[39] That's a logical reason.

[40] Please don't do that months that should not be that should not be one of the factors that drives your decision okay because it's not it's not going to collapse okay well and then percentage wise we didn't I didn't want to go get a new house and then pay a percentage on something with a higher interest rate that when we're at two you're not going to have a higher interest rate for much longer because you're paying it off so fast yeah that's true I mean it might be three or four years you carry it but you're not going to carry it for 30 years so it doesn't matter but make your decisions out of a uh glass half full, not out of panic, and really quit reading the internet.

[41] I'm serious.

[42] Okay.

[43] There's some really dumb, dark people out there.

[44] Yeah.

[45] And I'm too busy with work.

[46] My wife's a nurse practitioner in psych, and the last couple of years, she's been just a stay -at -home mother with our kid during these years, and now my son's getting to be where he can be in full -time school.

[47] So she's about to go back to work, too, now.

[48] So we're going to have a double income.

[49] Yeah, that'd be great.

[50] And, you know, but I mean, psych nurse is, you know, maybe she, oh, my gosh, she's just seen a lot of crazy stuff, no pun intended, right?

[51] And so, you know, that can, that can leave a mark on you.

[52] And so, but I don't want her to live in fear.

[53] I don't meet people who anticipate the end of the world who prosper.

[54] None.

[55] Great.

[56] I just don't.

[57] The people who, who, I mean, there's.

[58] Preppers, and then there's crazy preppers.

[59] Okay?

[60] Prepper's one thing, but crazy prepper, that's anticipating the end of the world.

[61] Like, I've got a friend who has gold bar.

[62] I have a friend who has gold bars in his basement.

[63] And it's not, it's just not right.

[64] And let's keep talking about this, though, shame, because the housing market is a point in our economy that a lot of people are panicked about.

[65] And back, you know, during COVID, when everything's surge in 2021, we sat here at this desk and people like, it's a bubble, it's a bubble.

[66] It's going to bust.

[67] And you're like, it's not supply and demand.

[68] Supply and demand.

[69] We did the real estate, yes, we did the real estate, you know, hour and all of it.

[70] So it is, though, Shane, to your wife's credit, it is a point of fear for a lot of people because I think it's...

[71] Not to her credit, empathize with her.

[72] I understand how people are afraid, but that doesn't mean that it's going to...

[73] No, I'm not saying that.

[74] Okay, so then give us the logic behind it.

[75] Well, the logic is there's a housing shortage.

[76] Still.

[77] There's still three buyers for every stinking house on the market.

[78] And houses have gone up right now, today, in most major markets.

[79] homes that are on the market are getting multiple offers.

[80] But they're sitting on it longer, though.

[81] It's not, like, like eight days.

[82] No, it's, no, but it's not.

[83] The average days on the market has gone up eight days in the past 12 months.

[84] Just, my wife sent me something the other day, and it says new home sales fall as mortgage rates way down.

[85] Well, people, I know, when the mortgage rates, they go, it slowed it down, though.

[86] No one, no one clicks on stuff unless it bleeds.

[87] That's a clickbait lead.

[88] Okay.

[89] Mortgage.

[90] Housing starts fall as much.

[91] Mortgage rates go up, which they did.

[92] A lot of builders slowed down.

[93] There's not as many houses coming out of the ground.

[94] You know what that does?

[95] It means there's an even bigger shortage of inventory, which makes your home even that much more.

[96] But house prices didn't fall.

[97] Builders slowed down building because they didn't want to get caught with specs if the market slowed down on it.

[98] But not if the market crashed.

[99] Housing starts did drop.

[100] But headlines always go, everyone's dying.

[101] That's what the headlines always say.

[102] because that's what people click on is that stuff.

[103] Yeah.

[104] So, you know, yeah, so look, that's what I mean by don't read the internet, okay?

[105] And with the election year coming up, traditionally in election years, things slow down closer to the election too, so you may see that happening.

[106] Traditionally, interest rates go down because the sitting president doesn't want to get unseeded by a stinky economy.

[107] We'll see.

[108] Yeah, yeah.

[109] We'll see.

[110] But interest rates have come down a little bit in the last month and a half.

[111] they've come down a full point.

[112] And the market is, you know, some areas, the southern areas of the country, the grass is starting to get green, people are coming out of their winter caves, they're starting to buy houses.

[113] And the house market is heating back up.

[114] It's a dirty little secret.

[115] Nobody's talking about it.

[116] But I've been anecdotally involved in three or four deals lately where I'm watching, and there's multiple offers coming in on these.

[117] Yeah.

[118] And so I'm getting ready to put our home on the market.

[119] And I was just looking, it's a different dollar amount.

[120] But, I mean, I was just looking at the, you know, What's the average days on the market?

[121] The average days on the market.

[122] What's the inventory?

[123] Inventory's dried up.

[124] I'm sitting pretty.

[125] My timing is excellent to put a house on the market.

[126] It's far from a crash.

[127] Quite the opposite.

[128] Yeah, you're going to see your homes go up in value in the next 12 months.

[129] Just write it down and say the old bald guy said it.

[130] This is the Ramsey Show.

[131] One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy?

[132] A valid question, since there are hundreds of companies.

[133] out there with rates all over the place and riders and add -ons that are simply a waste of money.

[134] You need to get this done and make the right decision.

[135] That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance.

[136] Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend.

[137] They also save you time, whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision.

[138] This is an absolute necessity, and Zander has made the process easy and convenient.

[139] Call them at 80035642 .82 or visit zander .com for instant online quotes.

[140] Well, there's one thing most of us agree on.

[141] Taxes suck.

[142] This is the time of year, which I generally stay grouchy, just in general.

[143] just because I think about how much theft my government is involved in.

[144] Can we talk about this real quick, too, adds on to the tax?

[145] Yeah.

[146] I don't know why it was kind of an epiphany I had yesterday where I was like, it is weird that you could pay off your house.

[147] You could be completely debt -free.

[148] But if you still have to, the government to a degree still owns it.

[149] Like you've got to pay your property taxes.

[150] In a sense, they kind of own your career.

[151] If you don't pay your taxes, you get put in jail.

[152] And then car insurance, you have a pay off car, but you've got to pay insurance.

[153] Like, there's a level of this that you're like, man, it's not like.

[154] Some of these things never stop.

[155] It's what it feels like.

[156] Yeah, for real.

[157] I don't know.

[158] I had that epiphany the other day.

[159] I was like, man. So you got two choices for claiming tax deductions.

[160] Understanding the difference can save you big bucks.

[161] Literally over seven out of ten Americans get a tax refund.

[162] I mean, seven out of ten of you are doing math poorly.

[163] There's a shock.

[164] You know what?

[165] Because listen, I'm old.

[166] I know Santa Claus.

[167] He's a friend of mine.

[168] He never goes to Washington, D .C. That money that's coming to you is not from Santa Claus.

[169] He has nothing to do with it.

[170] It's not a gift.

[171] It's your money.

[172] You sent too much money to the freaking IRS.

[173] They held it all year at no interest, and they sent it back to you called a refund, and you have a celebration like you hit the freaking lottery.

[174] All it was was a bad Christmas account.

[175] You know, you just saved up money, and then they sent it back to you with a zero percent interest.

[176] with a stinking IRS because you had too much taken out of your check.

[177] Stop it.

[178] Adjust your deductions to the proper amount of tax withholding to where you don't owe any taxes and they don't give you a refund.

[179] That's the proper thing to do.

[180] Now, this is what you've got to do, guys.

[181] Now, if you're doing your taxes right now, you can take a standard deduction.

[182] That's the easy option.

[183] If you're single, you make $65 ,000 a year.

[184] The standard deduction knocks off close to $14 ,000.

[185] So you only pay taxes on $51 ,000 of your income and not even that, really.

[186] That's if you're single.

[187] so itemize your deductions if you're going to do that it takes more work and you need a bunch of deductions right so if you want to know more about all this tax stuff there's two things we'll do to help you one is if you have a very simple return you can get the ramsie tax smart software i can't say it and i'm not smart enough say it and so the it's not very expensive and it's very easy to implement and a whole bunch of people have moved from those other guys, like 100 ,000 of you, you'll do your taxes on the Ramsey Smart Tech software this year.

[188] So it's very easy, very simple.

[189] Now, if you have a complicated return, like you have a small business, a side hustle, you bought or sold a house or whatever like that, and you want to get a tax pro, we've got tons and tons of tax pros that are endorsed local providers that we have vetted.

[190] I was just talking to one a minute ago from Houston, and there she is waving at us.

[191] She was at the break getting her picture made.

[192] She does taxes for you in Houston.

[193] So, good folks, taking good care of you.

[194] That's the way to do it go to ramsysolutions .com slash tax and you can find out about either one of those noah is in sacramento hi noah welcome to the ramsie show hey dave and rachel huge fan thank you for taking my call sure what's up um i'm just i'm in a i got myself into a a predicament i um i moved i was living in huntington beach um around 2021 and then after COVID and stuff.

[195] I lost my job and my family in Sacramento said I can come live with them.

[196] So that's where I've been the last three years.

[197] I got a good job.

[198] Well, I make about 60K.

[199] But over the three years being here, I've made some very bad decisions.

[200] Severe gambling addicts.

[201] I think that me just having to pay my parents a couple hundred a month, like gave me too much.

[202] Not enough responsibility and I was just blowing it left and right, maxing out credit cards.

[203] Long story short, now I'm here.

[204] I told my parents everything, and I just told them that I have a game plan to move out of here by September and just pay off everything I can until then.

[205] I got a job opportunity to go out and spray for pests, the pest control in Texas that is guaranteed $30 ,000 for about four months of work until September.

[206] I'm wondering if I should quit my current job and go do that and go pay off all my debt, but I'd come back with no job.

[207] Where in Texas?

[208] Waco, I think, Waco, yeah.

[209] You think?

[210] I'm sure where it is.

[211] What have you done about your severe gambling addiction?

[212] Haven't gambled, what is it, it's three or four months, it's been about all year.

[213] um but it was bad i broke down and how did you how have you dealt with it you just decided to stop and that's it you've got no help at all no i i i it cost me um a relationship and a bunch of stuff and it just right just realized i just had to stop no i haven't got like a therapist or anything but yeah i've been good deleted all my all the websites okay there's there's two possibilities in this conversation one is you don't have a severe gambling addiction you were just stupid that's one possibility and you decided to stop being stupid two is you have a severe gambling addiction and if that's the case you have not done enough to fix this you would need to get into gamblers anonymous and you would need to be seeing a counselor okay okay how old are you okay I'm 25 I just turned 25 in December okay so I mean I've I've never had a severe addiction but I have done stupid stuff so I can relate to one side of it as a possibility I don't know if this is just immaturity and stupidity, and you can ask yourself that question.

[214] I'm not calling you that.

[215] I'm just saying your actions were, and the way that you just quit cold without any help at all kind of makes me think it was on that side rather than the addiction side, but I'm not a therapist.

[216] What do you think?

[217] Is it a compulsion?

[218] Do you know what I mean?

[219] Noah, like usually with an addiction, there's a level of compulsion there.

[220] It was compulsion, yes.

[221] It was the dopamine.

[222] It was being bored.

[223] I don't have any friends in Utah, I mean, sorry, in Sacramento.

[224] And when I got here, I got a job right away, but it's for work from home.

[225] I've been working from home for three years, so I never met anybody.

[226] And that's my bad.

[227] I could join a club.

[228] I could do stuff, but I haven't.

[229] And so I've just kind of been working in my room, and after I get off, I'm in my room gambling because it's just been horrible.

[230] Yeah.

[231] How much debt did you go into for it?

[232] I've been climbing myself out of it all year I also have a car payment because I just had to have the Lexus you guys know it's stupid but I have a credit card with 1800 on it 4K on another card and that's it for the credit cards and then I have a $10 ,000 car loan I also owe the IRS $1 ,300 because I I decided to go exempt on some paychecks, which was really dumb.

[233] Yeah, because you were gambling.

[234] Okay.

[235] Yep.

[236] Well, you hit your rock bottom, no. And I think for a lot of people, there is that part of their story where it's just, you lost everything, your relationship.

[237] I mean, it's just, you got to a point you can't, you couldn't continue to move forward until you had those conversations, right, to actually bring up what's been going on.

[238] But I'm with Dave on that, that I would, just for your.

[239] own sake.

[240] And I think that all of this is good for anybody just to do some work around who you are, how you got here.

[241] What are these things, these compulsions?

[242] Where is it coming from?

[243] I mean, just doing some digging into your story.

[244] Yeah, the problem with going to Waco is you go with you.

[245] Yeah.

[246] So all of these, all of these things are still there.

[247] You're not, you're not getting away from them.

[248] Totally.

[249] I, the good thing is they're putting me in a hotel.

[250] I know, which.

[251] as you were in a room before by yourself.

[252] That was dangerous.

[253] Yeah.

[254] It's not a good thing.

[255] They're paying for rent.

[256] I have a work truck waiting for me out there.

[257] Yeah, I know.

[258] It sounds like a good deal except that you're going with you.

[259] And I'm worried about you.

[260] Yeah, I would just say, if you were to do this from a financial aspect, I would put some parameters around it.

[261] And I would.

[262] I mean, things like, like GA is so great.

[263] I mean, the 12 -step stuff is so good.

[264] You need to plug into gamblers.

[265] Yes, being in a weekly group.

[266] I mean, honestly, it's like these practices.

[267] that you put yourself in front of continue to work on the shame it continues to work on the actual act of it I mean I just I think it's I don't know so I without having without making sure you're healed or in a healing process just taking off to Waco's a bad idea so if you're engaged in some kind of healing process and Waco's part of that process great but running away and you following you is a bad plan.

[268] This is the Ramsey Show.

[269] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[270] Hey good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[271] It's hitting us right now.

[272] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[273] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[274] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[275] Here's I've learned.

[276] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[277] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[278] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[279] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[280] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[281] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[282] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[283] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[284] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[285] Never skip therapy day.

[286] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[287] Visit betterhelp .com slash Doloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[288] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[289] It's common sense for your dollars and cents.

[290] This is the Ramsey Show, proving that having common sense is somewhat like having a superpower today.

[291] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[292] In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, we have a wonderful thing called the Debt -Free Stage.

[293] When people stand on it, they do their debt -free screams.

[294] We do the show on the glass five days a week from one to four every afternoon.

[295] You're welcome to stop by and join us here in Nashville.

[296] Anthony and Susan are on the debt -free stage.

[297] Welcome, guys.

[298] Hey.

[299] Where do you guys live?

[300] St. Louis, Missouri.

[301] Oh, wow.

[302] Welcome to Nashville.

[303] How much debt have you paid off?

[304] We paid off $54 ,773.

[305] Very good.

[306] And how long did that take?

[307] About eight months.

[308] Good for you.

[309] And wow.

[310] And your range of income during that time?

[311] Yeah, we went from making $16 ,000.

[312] $25 ,365 in 2022 to $266 ,678 last year.

[313] Oh, my gosh.

[314] Jumped 100K.

[315] Yeah.

[316] What do y 'all do for a living?

[317] So I'm a nurse.

[318] She's a registered nurse, and I'm a precision plater for a defense company.

[319] Okay.

[320] So what y 'all do?

[321] Just like work overtime out your ears?

[322] Yeah.

[323] Or get promotions or what?

[324] 12 hours a day, seven days a week.

[325] Y 'all went nuts.

[326] Oh, my gosh.

[327] What kind of debt was the 55 ,000?

[328] It was the big bulk of it was student loans and also a Discover card.

[329] And then we had a lot of smaller stuff like jewelry loan.

[330] We had phones that we owed money on.

[331] We had a 401K loan.

[332] You all were like normal.

[333] Pretty normal.

[334] Yeah.

[335] And normal sucks.

[336] Yeah, it did.

[337] So you woke up and said, this sucks.

[338] How long have you been married?

[339] 15 years.

[340] So 14 years, this has gone by.

[341] Yeah.

[342] And what happened a year ago?

[343] What was the blow up?

[344] What was the Ramsey connection?

[345] Well, a year ago was about a year of us really being stressed out with having a lot of debt.

[346] And we would, I remember we were like always sitting in the hot tub that we, of course, got a loan for, right?

[347] Finance.

[348] And complaining about like the burden of the debt and what do we need to do to get through it.

[349] That is a great picture.

[350] Yeah, it was pretty crazy.

[351] I'm sitting in my finance hot tub whining about the debt.

[352] right yeah that is so great um i i actually um had an injury where i had to have a medical procedure done and i was out of work for three months oh and that put the pinch on stuff it did yeah so and you went oh this crap ain't working yeah we took a 401k loan out to try to cover that span of of time and then the credit card just took off um because it wasn't enough um and so at that point we knew that something had to change So at the point, okay, so the pressure built up gave you a wake -up call, then what'd you do?

[353] Well, we had your book sitting on our shelf for three months, the total money, or for a long time, the total money makeover.

[354] And we started to read it probably three or four years prior because we wanted to change things, but we didn't think we had a big enough problem when we dove into it.

[355] Well, God put it on our hearts at the beginning of last year that we could change.

[356] and the book was staring us in the face, so picked it up and read it within a couple days, started really listening to the podcast and watching you on YouTube, and then we just buckled down and we started to create a budget.

[357] We used the every dollar app, and that was the game changer.

[358] Was there one of you guys that was more like hardcore, we got to start, we got start more urgent about it or were you both pretty equal?

[359] I think he started things off but then we were together wanting to get rid of the debt.

[360] Okay.

[361] Yes.

[362] Yes.

[363] In that process.

[364] So what was the hardest part for you guys for eight months?

[365] I mean, you're working insane hours and I mean, you're doing a lot.

[366] You went crazy.

[367] In a great way.

[368] Yeah.

[369] Yeah.

[370] For me, it was like he's working all the time so I'm taking care of everything at the house and the kids And the scariest thing for me, honestly, was putting my 401K on hold.

[371] Because I've always invested like 10%.

[372] And he was like, we have to do this.

[373] And I was like, I don't know.

[374] But we did it.

[375] And that was the scariest thing.

[376] And the weird thing is it only eight months.

[377] It didn't hurt.

[378] No, it didn't hurt.

[379] We ended up doing the whole year and saving more money.

[380] And then this year we started with a new investor.

[381] And my 401K is like doing better than ever before.

[382] Okay.

[383] Yeah.

[384] Funny how that worked.

[385] Yeah, we hooked up with a smart investor pro, and he really sat down with us and explained what we were doing.

[386] And, you know, like you always say, the reasons we started to understand, and she just pulled up a statement the other day.

[387] And since she started taking some of that advice, the changes have been pretty insane.

[388] Wow.

[389] Good for y 'all.

[390] So encouraging.

[391] Well done.

[392] Well done.

[393] Excellent.

[394] All right.

[395] Now, when people find out you did this, since you got completely out of data, we were just bopping along 14 years of marriage, and then.

[396] Boom!

[397] A year of hell, and we get out of debt so that we don't have to live in this mess anymore.

[398] When people ask, how'd you do that?

[399] What do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is?

[400] I think for me, the big thing was you got to go to work.

[401] You have to work hard.

[402] You have to, and not only that, you have to get on the same page and create a budget.

[403] But for us, for the longest time, Susan always handled the finances.

[404] I was, like, looking back in ostrich with my head in the sand, like she would come to me and say, this is going on, and I didn't want to hear it because I felt like it stressed me out.

[405] And I needed to grow as a man and step up, and we needed to lock arms and come together and create a vision for what we wanted the money to do.

[406] And every wife in America just went, touchdown I don't know if they said touchdown they probably said amen amen hallelujah that's so good so so good and the budget had to impact your all's marriage then yeah yeah like susan you're not carrying the whole way the stinking thing on your back right right it's been really awesome sitting down with him we sit down every week and do the budget do the bank book together do everything together and you know it was just me for like the longest time so that's just it's amazing so anthony did it when you actually started leaning in and doing it that it stressed you out as much as you thought it would back in the day when you said, I don't want to look at that.

[407] I might get stressed.

[408] In the beginning, I wouldn't, it might have stressed me out because I know for a while it was hard to learn how to be, how to, how to compromise.

[409] So there were things that I saw that like, that money was going to places that I had no idea.

[410] And so I had to learn that like this, this needs to go there.

[411] Like this isn't like frivolous or, or anything like that.

[412] Like I, because my eyes were open to where the money was going, if that makes sense.

[413] That's very good.

[414] And you weren't scared of hard work before, but when you had a reason for your hard work, you went after it.

[415] Kicked it in overdrive.

[416] Yeah, big time.

[417] You kicked it hard.

[418] Well done, guys.

[419] Well done.

[420] I'm so proud of you.

[421] You're heroes, man. Thank you.

[422] You're heroes.

[423] And you have three kids.

[424] Yes.

[425] All right.

[426] Let's bring them up and introduce them.

[427] And give me their names and ages, please.

[428] So our oldest daughter, this is Courtney.

[429] She's 14.

[430] Hey, Courtney.

[431] Good.

[432] Good, good.

[433] And then our middle daughter is Sophia.

[434] She's 12.

[435] Mm -hmm.

[436] And our youngest daughter, Abigail is seven.

[437] All right, Ms. Abigail.

[438] All right.

[439] Very cool.

[440] And there's so many families that are in the middle of this journey.

[441] And I really think you guys just being here is such a beautiful picture that it's possible.

[442] Yeah.

[443] It's so possible.

[444] Well done.

[445] It's amazing.

[446] We've got a one -year subscription for every dollar for you for the premium and another one as well for you to give away to somebody and get them started on it.

[447] Way to go, you guys.

[448] You're heroes.

[449] Very proud of you.

[450] us three beautiful girls lives have been changed by a grown man and a grown woman doing what they're supposed to do well done you guys very cool anthony and susan courtney sophia and abbey from st louis fifty five thousand dollars paid off in eight months making one sixty five and then went to work 266 count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're debt free That is how that is done.

[451] Man. I mean, all the questions we get, I can't get my husband involved.

[452] I can't get my wife involved.

[453] That guy just outlined right there.

[454] He just stepped up.

[455] That was the most manly, masculine thing I've heard in a long time for that guy.

[456] He owned every bit of it.

[457] Yeah.

[458] And stepped in there beautifully done.

[459] And so many women were her that are running the household on their own.

[460] and it's a lonely place to be.

[461] And so when you sit down, you end up talking about life, you end up talking, this is where the money's going, what's going on here?

[462] And it's so much.

[463] The connection point is so huge.

[464] It's massive.

[465] This is the Ramsey show.

[466] Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay.

[467] We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care, And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries.

[468] CHM isn't health insurance.

[469] They're a health cost -sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families, like yours, take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom.

[470] Find out more and join at chmistries .org slash budget.

[471] That's chmistries .org slash budget.

[472] Retrial Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one, bestselling author, my co -host today.

[473] Emily is with us in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

[474] Hi, Emily.

[475] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[476] Hi, how good?

[477] How can we help?

[478] Good.

[479] So I'm reaching out today.

[480] I feel like I'm a Ramsey kid growing up.

[481] Your theme song has been like a jingle in the household to the last 26 years of my life.

[482] I'm reaching out today and kind of nervous, not sure kind of what to do at this point.

[483] We make just under $100 ,000 a year, my husband and I, and he's getting ready to hopefully go back to school here in a couple weeks, just kind of waiting on that official acceptance, and we will be losing about 60 % of our income.

[484] And we were running numbers last night, sitting down, trying to evaluate things, and I'm just not sure what we do with such a large reduction in our income based on what we kind of sell with our expenses.

[485] Are you guys able to cover the basics on 60 % or on 40 % of your income?

[486] Barely.

[487] We do have two kids, so we are bearing the price of childcare times two.

[488] On the positive side, he's old enough now.

[489] He's in early 30s where he's going to be going to school on telegrams and scholarships, so we don't have to necessarily work on the cash flow in his education.

[490] But I'm just kind of concerned with how we're going to structure like our living expenses.

[491] How long will he be in school for?

[492] Roughly eight to 13 months.

[493] And it's a full, roughly seven days a week, nine to five.

[494] They said don't plan on working during the program because it is such a vigorous course.

[495] Well, that means there's child care is no help at all.

[496] Exactly.

[497] Okay.

[498] So child care stays there and you're making $40K and you can live on that or not.

[499] If the answer is not, you can't do it.

[500] Yeah.

[501] Yeah, I don't think, you know, and we've looked at a couple different options.

[502] You know, my parents are getting ready to retire, but I don't really want them to putting their whole retirement, watching their grant kids by day and a week.

[503] Well, the eight to ten months is not their whole retirement.

[504] True, true.

[505] Okay.

[506] I mean, if they want to do it, that's another thing.

[507] I mean, they may not want to do it.

[508] It may not be an option.

[509] But, I mean, what's he going to study?

[510] Let's go line then.

[511] So he wants to do high -power voltage.

[512] Okay.

[513] Yeah, and so he's making 60 now.

[514] He'll come out making 80, day one.

[515] Yeah, I think they said apprentices start roughly 45 to 50 an hour flat rate, not including any overtime, you know, so the in -keep car rate comes almost a And his apprenticeship is like only a couple of years, and then he'll be making serious money, yeah.

[516] Yeah.

[517] Is he going to travel with it?

[518] No, I think he plans to stay local.

[519] We bought our house in 2020 for fairly cheap at a super low interest rate, so we're not really willing to give that up right now.

[520] Okay.

[521] Because, I mean, if he's traveling, it's a whole different world even in that, in that world, as you know.

[522] Okay.

[523] Well, here's the thing.

[524] It feels like the way you're describing this that you first decided for him to do this and then tried to figure out if you could afford it rather than the other way around.

[525] Like you should have figured out if you could afford it before he decided to do it.

[526] Because his primary job is to not because.

[527] I'm a high wire guy.

[528] His primary job is to feed his family.

[529] Yep.

[530] And if he can't do that, then he can't do this.

[531] Yep, and he's talked about picking up like a part -time job or working with his current employer to see if he can work on -end hours to kind of fill those gaps.

[532] But they said not to do that.

[533] Yeah, they didn't recommend it until they kind of get into like the core of the program.

[534] So, and he's been working towards us.

[535] Roughly about six years, we've paid off roughly $7 ,000 in debt because currently we've done step one, we've been working on step two, but as soon as he started to get the beginning of the acceptance, it's just we kind of froze step two for a minute to say, okay.

[536] How much that do you guys have left, Emily?

[537] For our debt.

[538] Yeah.

[539] Not including our mortgage, about $35 ,000.

[540] Okay.

[541] On what?

[542] Student loans, a vehicle, and then we put.

[543] a new roof on our house after we purchased it.

[544] How much do you owe on the vehicle?

[545] I want to say roughly 5 ,000.

[546] Okay.

[547] Is there a way for him to delay this like a year and you guys get in a position where you pay off debt, you can get savings or like any level of traction?

[548] If you had no debt and had your emergency fund fully funded, you could probably see your way through this a lot more to Rachel's point.

[549] Yeah, and that's something he's considered.

[550] I just know the program.

[551] And he's currently, and he's, you know, put it off and talked about it and he's applied.

[552] So what?

[553] No, that really matters if you have hungry children.

[554] Wham?

[555] Yeah.

[556] So, and, you know, he put it off.

[557] Uh, it's tough.

[558] This is grown -up land.

[559] Yeah.

[560] You've got to do what you have to do to feed your family first, and then you do this.

[561] So you'd be in a much better condition if you said, I'm going to intentionally spend this next year, getting our crap together so that when I do this, it doesn't put my family in jeopardy.

[562] Because you're really calling saying you can't figure out how you're doing this.

[563] You keep saying we're barely going to make it, but what you're really saying is we can't make it.

[564] Okay.

[565] Aren't you?

[566] Well, looking at the numbers, I think it's slightly doable, but it's then again getting out of our comfort zone of our current lifestyle and getting into that new lifestyle, and I'm just concerned.

[567] I can handle you.

[568] I mean, you can give up your comfort zone.

[569] That's what.

[570] nothing it's not comfort zone I'm concerned about it's food yeah and you know the necessities will be met that's our biggest thing you know I'm just worried about you know any additional expenses or things that come out how much is your house payment um a thousand and your take -home pays 3 ,300 yes and you're going to run the rest of this household on 2300 bucks a month including 35 ,000 dollars worth of debt bull that's that's yeah that's yeah the numbers aren't crunching no they're not crunching at all yeah so they're crunching but it's not a good sound of crunch yeah yeah yeah I um yeah I I would wait Emily honestly I I don't I'm not a dream killer but I love killing nightmares yeah and so I don't want to kill his dream but if his dream to put his whole family, you know, you call me back eight months from now.

[571] You know, he went, but we're in foreclosure.

[572] You know, I don't, I'm not going to sign you up for that and, and have my stamp of approval.

[573] I want him to go do this, but I want him to do it in such a way that he doesn't put all of you guys in jeopardy.

[574] And he doesn't want to put you guys in jeopardy.

[575] But you just, you guys have not thought this through until last night.

[576] Yeah.

[577] So we've been, you know, looking at stuff.

[578] And, you know, I've pretty much run our budget.

[579] I mean, he's not a, spender um it's not the question not i'm not saying he's a bad guy i'm saying you guys together have not thought this through until last night and you have to stephen covey says one of the seven habits of highly effective people is they begin with the end in mind and last night you did that for the first time on this and it took your breath away and that's why you called yeah because i just wasn't sure i'd have to do so here's what i'm going to tell you if i were in your shoes here's what i would do my first choice would be for him to wait a year.

[580] Rachel's suggestion is excellent.

[581] And if it takes 18 months or if it puts the whole thing in jeopardy, so be it.

[582] I'll call that God.

[583] And so God put it in jeopardy because God says don't do things where you can't feed your own family.

[584] Those that don't take care of their own household first are worse than an unbeliever.

[585] Bible.

[586] Okay.

[587] So we're, you know, We're going to call it that.

[588] Now, the if, but I am convinced that if he can get in there this round, he can probably get in another round.

[589] So that's choice one.

[590] Choice two is you guys look around there and figure out how we're going to increase our income above your base and mom and dad are going to commit to keep the kids and drop your daycare bill because your daycare bill is probably, what, two grand a month?

[591] Yeah.

[592] Honey, your daycare in your house and you don't have any money left for food.

[593] I just did that.

[594] Yeah, so that's over.

[595] And we're looking at child care alternative, and you're reaching out.

[596] Is your child care two grand a month?

[597] Yeah.

[598] Plus 1 ,000.

[599] 3 ,000.

[600] Your take home's 3 ,300.

[601] Your budget's not tight.

[602] It's impossible.

[603] You cannot go forward unless you adjust something.

[604] It's fantasy.

[605] Okay?

[606] You don't have any.

[607] Yeah, that's just ding, ding.

[608] So, adjust the child care.

[609] sell a car, take six jobs.

[610] He works on the side, even though he's not supposed to.

[611] And for eight months, you grind it out like that?

[612] And for eight months, do you pay a price for him to get to be this?

[613] I'm okay with paying a price to win, but I'm not okay paying a price knowing I'm going to lose.

[614] That's a bad idea.

[615] It's one life event away from, to your point.

[616] Foreclosure, a car, and repo, all of it.

[617] It's not, it's one month away.

[618] Well, yes.

[619] You can't even get to the food budget here.

[620] This is the Ramsey show.

[621] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[622] I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

[623] Thank you for joining us, America.

[624] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[625] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one best -selling author, is my co -host today, and we're happy to talk to you, America.

[626] about your life and your money.

[627] So when I wrote the first book I wrote Financial Peace in 1994, raise your hand if you weren't born yet.

[628] Okay.

[629] They did in the lobby.

[630] Yeah.

[631] When I wrote that book, I proposed a concept in our seminars that we were doing in those days and it was a different world in 1994 sure yeah um and the 90s are back a little bit i proposed a concept and i got so much though the first times i got just showered and hate oh i can't wait it was fabulous and so the concept was this and i don't remember the exact numbers but they were a whole lot lower than they are today so i'll make up some numbers that would be similar to what they probably were i said something like if a lady is making $30 ,000 a year at her job, she has two kids and daycare is $1 ,000 a month, and she buys clothing, professional clothing to go to that job, and she dry cleans the professional clothing.

[632] Because in the 90s, you were wearing suits.

[633] To go to that job.

[634] For a lot of places.

[635] Well, they weren't wearing sweatpants to work in those days or your pajamas.

[636] And so it's a different world, like I said.

[637] and if she were and if because she was working she didn't prepare meals from scratch at home because time and fatigue the family would go out to eat more and they would spend from scratch but just meaning like home cooked meal spend more on pre -prepared things or going out to eat yeah because of fatigue ordering pizza because I'm tired and don't feel like cooking or the husband is choosing not to cook yes well whatever I'm just saying and so 1994 I know this is the night just hang with me here but I And I propose that if you add all of these things up, making $28 ,000 a year, paying $1 ,000 a month for child care, these other things added in after taxes come out, and gasoline to drive to said job, and wear and tear on the car to drive to said job, when you take all of those things out, she's probably losing money working.

[638] And it might be cheaper, net, net, net, net, net, net, to stay home with the kids, if she wants to I didn't say she should be at home barefoot and pregnant I did not say that I said if she chooses to and wants to be at home now people said I said a lot of things I didn't say but that's exactly what I said but even on the premise that she can't afford she's not making enough to justify working yes or he's not with the expenses with the expenses yeah at that time yeah and I caught hell for suggesting that net of daycare, net of all these other expenses, she might not be making anything because I did some math.

[639] And dad blame, if I didn't get blamed for the other side of that, not that, but the other way of not understanding the cost of daycare and that you can't afford to work because of the cost of daycare.

[640] The stinking Wall Street Journal, some woman writes an article trash in me. Recently, not in 94.

[641] Just the other day.

[642] Just the other day.

[643] I said on the air that that women, that they can't, that daycare is ridiculous and so you just need to shut up and go to work.

[644] I didn't say that at all.

[645] I've said quite the opposite since 1990 freaking four.

[646] And I get, I don't, if you're going to hate me, hate me for the right thing.

[647] Okay.

[648] If you're going to bitch about something Dave said, pick out something he actually said.

[649] Okay.

[650] But I think they clipped, I think there was a clip of you saying that's a ridiculous amount to pay for child care.

[651] And they clipped that, not knowing the whole call.

[652] Well, of course, because it's the freaking media.

[653] I know, but that's specific.

[654] And some idiot on TikTok.

[655] Yes, that specific guy was paying.

[656] But he was paying like $28 ,000 for one kid.

[657] Yeah.

[658] That is dumb.

[659] Well, I don't, yes.

[660] Average right now is 16 ,000.

[661] Okay.

[662] So depending on where you are, if you're in New York City and Manhattan, that is going to look a difference.

[663] No, that guy was calling in.

[664] He was trying to put his kid in.

[665] I don't remember.

[666] I don't remember.

[667] I'm just telling, no, I don't know.

[668] It was Gucci daycare he was signing up for.

[669] I don't know.

[670] His upper lip was sunburned because his nose was in the air.

[671] We don't know that.

[672] Yes, I do.

[673] No, we don't.

[674] No, we don't.

[675] But I am not, I'm on quite the other side of what I got blamed for, which is what I'm upset for.

[676] I did not, I mean, all I'm talking about that particular instance, it's like somebody calling it up and going, I'm paying $46 ,000 a year for my child to attend a private elementary school, and I make $60 ,000 a year.

[677] What do you think of that?

[678] I think you're a moron.

[679] That's what I think of that.

[680] You can't do math.

[681] Your kids shouldn't be in a school that fancy.

[682] Okay?

[683] Because you're just stuck up.

[684] That's all that is.

[685] And that's what this guy was.

[686] It had nothing to do with the actual cost of daycare.

[687] I think the thing is it is such a hard subject because unlike 94, you fast forward to today where it is.

[688] It's like child care.

[689] It's ridiculous.

[690] 30 to almost 40 % in some areas since like 2019.

[691] It's going up faster than tuition.

[692] I know that.

[693] Yeah, for working moms and parents.

[694] No, it's not different than 94.

[695] So the exact same thing is true.

[696] Some people now with the cost of daycare aren't making money.

[697] That's right.

[698] I agree.

[699] I totally agree.

[700] So I'm still saying the same thing.

[701] Yes.

[702] No, I know.

[703] But now I'm getting hated for saying the other thing that I didn't say.

[704] I know.

[705] But I think, too, the conversation of a household income because so many families are dual income.

[706] And a lot of families are dual income and make on average, right, like in that in that 60, 70 range per year.

[707] Yep.

[708] And then in order to pay the mortgage and have the food, I mean, like there is a - And these days, mama might be making more than daddy.

[709] A hundred percent.

[710] It's not unusual at all.

[711] Oh, yeah.

[712] That's the other option is that the spouse who's making more.

[713] I don't care.

[714] That's not the point.

[715] It's a math thing is all I'm looking at.

[716] And the problem is, though, again, people are getting to this place.

[717] now because it's risen so quickly that it is hard that they're having to look now at exactly what you're saying at the options of like oh my gosh and I've known some moms that they're like I got to go home like I have three kids under the age of five and we can't afford it literally can't afford it or you make you make $40 ,000 a year today and you have three kids under the age of five in daycare you're not making money I know that's that 1999 example in 24 dollars right right I know I know and there's some other there's some you know other ways you can look at it.

[718] I mean, there's...

[719] You've got to find an alternative child care situation if you're going to work in that situation.

[720] Yes, yes.

[721] Because you're not actually making money.

[722] Yep.

[723] You're working and going backwards.

[724] And what's hard is for the single mom, too, who doesn't...

[725] Oh, it's almost impossible.

[726] Yeah, who almost doesn't even have that option.

[727] But here's the other thing.

[728] 16 ,000 is the average nationally.

[729] This includes expensive markets, inexpensive markets, and it includes expensive daycares and inexpensive daycares.

[730] And so there's a lot of ways to skin the cat.

[731] There's a lot of ways to take care of the kids.

[732] But it is a valid thing to sit and look at it as a family and make decisions.

[733] And make a call and the values, yes.

[734] But people don't use, they get emotional because the issue is their children.

[735] And their brains meltdown.

[736] Yeah.

[737] And they quit doing math.

[738] Because as a mom with little kids who works, you go through some of these places.

[739] You're like, I don't want to, I don't feel comfortable sending my kid here too.

[740] Then don't.

[741] I know, I know.

[742] But it's the idea that it's a. It's a hard subject for a lot of people.

[743] It is hard.

[744] It is.

[745] Okay, so we left everyone with...

[746] We're not going to keep the rant going.

[747] How hard that subject is in life.

[748] Yeah, how high child care is and how hard it is.

[749] Yes.

[750] It is high and it is hard.

[751] The trick is to not be irrational and justify stupid numbers because you love your children.

[752] Love of your children does not make math good.

[753] away.

[754] Math still will roost.

[755] It'll still come home.

[756] So we want to help you face this high cost.

[757] And if you go to ramsysolutions .com, we have a blog there called 13 ways to afford the high cost of child care.

[758] Almost like everyone at Ramsey knows that child care is high.

[759] Just in case some of you on TikTok weren't listening.

[760] We're aware that child care cost is high, but that does not mean that you suddenly get a pass on math.

[761] The cost of real estate in Manhattan is high, but some of you can't afford to live there because of math.

[762] It's that simple.

[763] The cost of real estate in Tokyo is high, and some of you can't afford to live there because of math.

[764] So we'll help you with this but I'm not going to help you with denial or the system's broken so I'm going to ignore math no that's not what you we're not going to go down that alley no but there are some there are some different ways creative ways to kind of look at it and one of the options is what we talked about in the last segment was maybe one one parent decides to stay home right like maybe it gets to a point that's a valid option yeah so there's the interesting thing I'll add one more thing I said we weren't going to extend the around but now we are okay there are parents out there right now with this thing, you and I have talked about this at length, mom guilt.

[765] If you work, you're guilty because you're not home.

[766] If you're home, you feel guilty because you're not working.

[767] Moms can't win.

[768] Yep.

[769] They got guilt either way.

[770] Society and on heaps it on them, they heap it on themselves.

[771] If I'm at work, I feel guilty because I'm not home with the kids.

[772] If I'm at home with the kids, I feel guilty because I'm not using my degree and I'm not out making money.

[773] And so you just can't get away from it.

[774] Guys don't struggle from this, by and large.

[775] Yeah, the mom guilt is.

[776] Mom guilt is a very real thing.

[777] So in the midst of that statement, there are ladies who really would prefer to be at home with their children.

[778] Oh, sure, yeah.

[779] And have never sat down and done the math that says you should be.

[780] And so this sets you free.

[781] Because stay at home moms.

[782] I want to set you free if that's you.

[783] Yes.

[784] If you're a professional lady, Rachel's in the workplace.

[785] My other daughter works.

[786] If you're a professional lady in the workplace, I'm not trying, we're not trying to say you should go home or you're not a good mom.

[787] we're not saying that at all we're saying if that's your choice to be at home but you feel like you should you that the family needs money for working and yet you're not netting anything I'm this math is going to give your permission to go home yes there's a value a dollar value for say at home moms the amount of work that they do no question for sure actually in savanna Georgia hi Ashley welcome to the ramsay show hi y 'all hey what's up well um we continue off of what y 'all are talking about how do my husband and I pay off debt, rebuild our savings, and potentially have another baby while living in this world where expenses keep increasing like daycare and rent.

[788] What do y 'all make?

[789] What's household income?

[790] We both make $80 ,000.

[791] Okay.

[792] So you make $160 ,000?

[793] Mm -hmm.

[794] Yeah.

[795] You make $160 ,000.

[796] Well, our joint.

[797] Well, that would be, yeah.

[798] How much debt do you guys have?

[799] So I have, so we are renting.

[800] at 2 ,300, and then obviously, like, power and all that stuff.

[801] How much do you owe in your cars?

[802] Just debt, yeah.

[803] We have no car notes, car loans.

[804] My car is paid off, but she is reaching 200 ,000 miles, and my husband has an old blazer that we just can't rely on.

[805] You have any debt.

[806] What debts do you guys have?

[807] So I have two credit cards.

[808] One is $3 ,700 that I'm making minimum payments on.

[809] unfortunately one was charged off recently my other card which is about 15 and I'm pretty sure there's some medical debt floating around how long have you all been making 160 ,000 and overspending the 160 just happened this year what were you making in the other years well COVID really rocked us 60 day furlough turned into over a year and then I took a job for 50 ,000 and I just got back up to 80.

[810] What was your husband making?

[811] He's been slowly progressing as well, so probably about 60 and just got to 80 as well.

[812] Okay, so y 'all were around that 100 mark for a while.

[813] So here's what's happened, okay?

[814] You went through a downturn in your incomes and you slowly progress back to and beyond where you were before and you've faster than your income went up your spending went up because you didn't give me anywhere nothing you've given me so far tells us where $160 ,000 is going I have no idea why you should be this broke how in the world you have a $3 ,000 credit card charged off making $160 means you're out of control disorganized and chaotic in your house.

[815] So the credit card, I haven't put anything on a credit card in years.

[816] This is like really directly.

[817] Yeah, but why do you just pay it off?

[818] You make $160 ,000.

[819] It's $3 ,000 because you didn't have any money because all your money is going to restaurants and trips you can't afford.

[820] We're not eating out.

[821] We're not going on trips.

[822] Bullcrap.

[823] I'm not getting my meal.

[824] Seriously.

[825] Where's your money going?

[826] Seriously, where's all your money going that?

[827] If you're in control and you have a budget laid out, where's your $160 ,000 going?

[828] Because it's not going to rent.

[829] You don't have that much rent.

[830] It's not going to debt.

[831] It's $2 ,300.

[832] She told us.

[833] Your rent's low.

[834] You don't have any debt.

[835] Where's your money going?

[836] All of our money goes to bills.

[837] What bills?

[838] You don't have any bills.

[839] This is hilarious.

[840] Yeah.

[841] What bills do you have?

[842] Don't yell at her.

[843] What bills do you?

[844] you have?

[845] Hello?

[846] For help.

[847] What, I'm sorry, what bills do you have?

[848] All of our bills combined are $4 ,000 a month.

[849] Okay, that's $2 ,300 for rent.

[850] What's the other $1 ,200?

[851] $1 ,000 for daycare.

[852] Okay.

[853] Which keeps going up year over year.

[854] Yeah, it does.

[855] Okay.

[856] And then power, electricity, all the basic minimum.

[857] Okay.

[858] So did you say $4 ,000 a month?

[859] Did I hear you right?

[860] Correct.

[861] That's $48 ,000.

[862] dollars a year.

[863] And then plus child care.

[864] No, no, no, that includes childcare.

[865] Did it?

[866] The $4 ,000 included child care?

[867] It's $1 .50, $1 .50 for child care.

[868] So that's $48 ,000 out of $160 ,000.

[869] So somewhere I'm still missing $102 ,000.

[870] Taxes.

[871] Okay.

[872] Somewhere I'm still missing almost $100 ,000.

[873] That's what I'm talking about.

[874] This is recent.

[875] And then any money that we have left over is going into the snowball method.

[876] How much is left over per month that you guys have?

[877] About $500.

[878] I'm sorry?

[879] And we're just dumping that into savings.

[880] $500.

[881] Okay, something's really, really, really, really off in your math.

[882] Because you gave me $48 ,000 worth of debt.

[883] $500 is $6 ,000.

[884] That's $54 ,000 of $160.

[885] I'm still over $100 ,000 that's missing, not counting taxes.

[886] You following this?

[887] Are you looking at a yearly number?

[888] Yeah, I am.

[889] Like monthly.

[890] I am $500 a month is $6 ,000 a year.

[891] Hold on.

[892] Ashley, how much do you guys, how much hits your checking account every month, income -wise?

[893] After taxes.

[894] What are you guys bringing home now?

[895] I get $1 ,800 every two weeks.

[896] And what is he?

[897] What about that?

[898] That's around the same thing as well.

[899] Okay.

[900] That's not $160 ,000 a year.

[901] Before taxes.

[902] Yeah.

[903] No, how much you got, you got money going in your 401K?

[904] No. Okay.

[905] You have way too much withholding.

[906] You guys need to, okay, I'll tell you what, hold on.

[907] Here's what we're going to do.

[908] I can't break this because I can't break her.

[909] So I'm going to hook you up with one of our financial counselors, actually, who can sit down and calmly go through this and try to explain it to you.

[910] Because I can't, nothing you're saying makes sense.

[911] Well, 60, yeah.

[912] These numbers are $50, $60 ,000 off.

[913] that she's just so far off it's unbelievable and so there's something else going on with your math here I don't know where your money's going you don't know where your money's going all you figured out is is that it's not working and so you guys have got to sit down because $160 ,000 a year is not $1 ,800 every two weeks comes to Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co -host today our event season is in full swing we have three events coming up where you can experience the Ramsey teachings live and in person with thousands of people just like you our next one is the total money makeover weekend event rachel and me dr john deloney ken coleman jade george all of us will be speaking at this two -day ultimate motivator event to get fired up and wired up to live the life you've always wanted tell every dollar what to do make every dollar behave and learn to win with money get out of debt become wealthy, be outrageously generous.

[914] We're going to show you how to do every bit of it.

[915] May 10th and 11th here on our campus.

[916] We're already half sold out, so if you want to come, you need to get your tickets immediately.

[917] Then on May 21st and 22nd, I'm going to be doing a virtual event with George Camel helping me as we unpack not only the basics of investing, but the Dave Ramsey's investing essentials, something I've never done before.

[918] I'm going to open my playbook, my personal playbook, on real estate.

[919] I own several hundred million dollars worth and I'll show you what I've done and how I've done it and it's not a TikTok video.

[920] It's not easy, but I can show you how to really do it.

[921] I've actually done it.

[922] It's not a theory for me. I don't live in my mother's basement.

[923] So we're going to walk this through for you.

[924] Then Rachel and Dr. John Deloney will be doing the money and marriage getaway October 24th and 26th through the 26th, that is, here on our campus as well.

[925] Spend a weekend away with your spouse in Nashville and with Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz.

[926] real -life answers to real marriage questions.

[927] Gets a little dicey in there sometimes, I'm just saying.

[928] But you're going to love the event.

[929] You're going to learn a lot.

[930] It's pretty incredible.

[931] So any of these three things you can get at ramsysolutions .com slash events, and they all three are likely to be sellouts well before, so get your tickets quickly.

[932] On the debt -free stage in the Ramsey Solutions headquarters, lobby is Tyler and Jesse.

[933] Hey, guys, how are you?

[934] Good, how are you?

[935] Better than I deserve, man. Tell me, where do you guys live?

[936] Worcester, Ohio.

[937] Cool.

[938] What's that near?

[939] Akron.

[940] Akron.

[941] All right, cool.

[942] And how much debt have you guys paid?

[943] $289 ,000.

[944] Woo!

[945] How long did that take?

[946] 44 months.

[947] Good for you.

[948] And your range of income?

[949] We started at 116, and now we make 169.

[950] Good.

[951] What are you guys do for a living?

[952] I'm a firefighter.

[953] and I'm a physical therapist.

[954] Very cool.

[955] Very cool.

[956] What was the 289?

[957] What kind of debt?

[958] It was two car loans and then most of it was a student loan.

[959] Wow.

[960] Nice, y 'all.

[961] Good for you guys.

[962] How long y 'all been married?

[963] Four years today.

[964] Oh, happy anniversary.

[965] They set it in unison.

[966] That was perfect.

[967] So great.

[968] Very cool, you guys.

[969] So somebody comes out with a bunch of student loans.

[970] Maybe physical therapy could be.

[971] I don't know.

[972] It's a doctor's great possible doing a PT degree.

[973] And you guys get married and you go, okay, cleanup time.

[974] Tell me how that happened and what the conversation sounded like.

[975] How did you plug into Ramsey?

[976] So I grew up.

[977] My parents did the Dave Ramsey program, the baby steps.

[978] And so when I graduated in 2017 with my doctor degree, I asked my dad, I'm like, what do I do about this?

[979] And he said, you need to read, you know, the total money makeover and you need to get signed up for FPU.

[980] Wow.

[981] It'll be the best money you've ever spent.

[982] And so I went to FPU a year before meeting Tyler.

[983] And then I met Tyler at work.

[984] We started dating the next year.

[985] We started talking about marriage.

[986] And I said, okay, I want you to go through this course with me. And you need to know what comes with me. Yes.

[987] That's right.

[988] That's right.

[989] Yeah.

[990] So we had the talk, the money talk.

[991] How long had you been dating before you disclosed hundreds of thousands of student loan debt?

[992] Two months.

[993] Yeah.

[994] Get this out of the way.

[995] All right.

[996] Just see if he's a keeper or not, right?

[997] Yeah.

[998] So great.

[999] Oh, my gosh.

[1000] Okay, so for four years, you've been doing this.

[1001] So pretty much since you've been married, you guys have been on this.

[1002] Okay, so how hard was that?

[1003] Because I feel like, especially when you have a new event, like whether it's marriage or a baby or you graduate from college, like whatever it is, you kind of want to jump into a new season and just enjoy life.

[1004] So how hard was it being newlyweds knowing like we're buckling down and doing this?

[1005] It was rough.

[1006] I mean, we got married during the pandemic.

[1007] Oh, my gosh, yeah.

[1008] And so my income actually You got married at the height of the pandemic.

[1009] Yeah, we had a COVID wedding.

[1010] Like about the time the quarantine started.

[1011] Yeah, we were on shutdown whenever we got married.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] This is like, this is March.

[1014] This is the end of March.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] Oh, my gosh.

[1017] And it's your anniversary.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] Whoa.

[1020] Okay.

[1021] So, yeah.

[1022] So the whole pandemic, you guys were doing this.

[1023] Yeah.

[1024] Wow.

[1025] Yeah, trying to.

[1026] Yes.

[1027] My income reduced by half because my outpatient hours, were reduced.

[1028] So it's just amazing because I actually found other opportunities, screening in the ED on third shift, going and doing cash -based physical therapy in people's homes that didn't want to go out in the community.

[1029] Yeah, God really showed up.

[1030] Yeah, she got after it too.

[1031] Wow, you were getting it.

[1032] Good for y 'all.

[1033] Amazing.

[1034] Wow.

[1035] So you get married right at the quarantine and then you go wide open into this thing.

[1036] so what was the hardest part of the whole journey?

[1037] I think the hardest part was just not playing the comparison game and walking our own path.

[1038] You know, we're at age right now where everybody in our life is making different milestones and, you know, we just had to celebrate ours, you know, through the debt snowball.

[1039] The way it's set up, you can still celebrate while you're paying off your debt.

[1040] So, yeah.

[1041] What do you think?

[1042] Yeah, yeah, just got to shut up and do it.

[1043] I mean, you just, you know, I think what got me through was that I was hearing the debt -free screams of all these other people who, you know, lost a spouse or, you know, just different things.

[1044] Hard life stuff.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] And, you know, it's like, okay, they can do it.

[1047] What's my excuse?

[1048] You know, it's our excuse.

[1049] How much did you guys work would you say?

[1050] What was like at the peak?

[1051] How many hours a week was like the?

[1052] Oh, gosh.

[1053] We were like animals.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] We would go whole weeks without seeing each other because we were.

[1057] Opposite schedules with my job.

[1058] I think I sometimes was like somewhere around 60, 65 hours in a week.

[1059] Oh my gosh, yeah.

[1060] Yeah, as a fireman, I could go upwards of 100 hours a week, but, you know, sometimes we get to sleep, but not always.

[1061] It's not guaranteed by any stretch.

[1062] Okay, so besides work and income, what's the other part of this that you would tell somebody?

[1063] Yeah, the key.

[1064] What's the key?

[1065] What's the thing?

[1066] The number one thing.

[1067] To get out of that.

[1068] Oh, just take every opportunity you can to increase your income.

[1069] I know we did.

[1070] We just went after every certification.

[1071] We're at work anyways.

[1072] We're spending hours anyways.

[1073] Let's just do that too.

[1074] Let's try to get, you know, our time worth more.

[1075] And then also too at home, just making meals at home, packing lunches.

[1076] We made her own laundry detergent.

[1077] I mean, just, you know, all these little things that really add up.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] And just to add on to that, you know, we're lucky enough that the phase of life we're in.

[1080] We don't have children yet, anything like that.

[1081] So we took this time for a lot of professional development.

[1082] Like our life wasn't on hold, really, because we've developed a lot.

[1083] That's awesome, you guys.

[1084] Yeah, for sure.

[1085] Your incomes have increased permanently because of that.

[1086] So nice.

[1087] No payments.

[1088] Your heroes.

[1089] Well done.

[1090] So the first four years, you worked your tail end off for four years, you're 100 % dead free.

[1091] Was it worth it?

[1092] Yes.

[1093] Oh, yeah.

[1094] Yes.

[1095] It's amazing to walk into work and know that.

[1096] we have the ball now this you know every every you know dollar goes towards our goals it's we're not paying some bank you know it's amazing well that's it yeah just put me in coach that's right I love it well done well done so proud of y 'all who was cheering your own I bet your dad yep yep our family our friends um we definitely talked to people who had gone through the steps and were successful with it yeah yeah and it's funny like you know at work I almost have like a second family we brought some people around you know and they were cheering us on at the end too so it was awesome yeah that's great very cool so great you guys well done guys home run touchdown way to go heroes hey we've got a uh every dollar subscription for you for the premium you're probably already using it and that'll extend it for you and another one for you to give away for somebody that can't believe you really did this i'm impressed with these numbers very hard work very hard work She's not kidding.

[1097] Lots and lots of hours.

[1098] She said it like six times, but she's exactly right.

[1099] Oh, yeah.

[1100] Really happened.

[1101] Really happened.

[1102] All right.

[1103] It's Tyler and Jesse from Akron, Ohio.

[1104] 289 ,000 paid off in 44 months, making 116 to 169.

[1105] Count it down.

[1106] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1107] Three, two, one.

[1108] We're debt -free.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] Woo -hoo!

[1111] Way to go, you guys!

[1112] And now their debt -free scream is permanently enshrined in the YouTube Hall of Fame to encourage other people who are in the middle of their hard journey telling you it's worth it this is the Ramsey show open phones this hour I'm Dave Ramsey your host thank you for joining us today's question comes from Anonymous I haven't heard from Anonymous in a while he used to write me all the time usually doesn't have nice things to say but let's see what Anonymous in Arkansas says.

[1113] It says how do you learn discipline?

[1114] I spend so much of my income on going out to eat.

[1115] I work overnights at Walmart and make $20 an hour, but my bank account always is a race to zero.

[1116] I borrow money from my paycheck before I get it and use apps like Dave.

[1117] Yeah, there is one.

[1118] It's not mine.

[1119] Oh, to get cash advance.

[1120] Is it really named Dave?

[1121] Yeah, they named that.

[1122] They did that on purpose.

[1123] Oh, no, Dave.

[1124] Oh, gosh.

[1125] It's a cash advance app.

[1126] Five dollars for an instant deposit.

[1127] I feel like I can't get out of this $3 ,000 credit card hole that I'm in.

[1128] I also owe the IRS around $4 ,000.

[1129] If I was disciplined with my money, I wouldn't be in the spot on 27.

[1130] I need to get my stuff together.

[1131] Anonymous, that is a very, I think you have your stuff together.

[1132] My dad used to tell me that when you recognize a problem, 90 % of the problem is solved.

[1133] And so I think you're on a really, really good path here.

[1134] I did the same thing, anonymous.

[1135] During the Fauci pandemic, I ate every donut in a 50 -mile radius.

[1136] And I looked down and there was a thing growing on the front of me. It looked like a belly.

[1137] It was ridiculous.

[1138] There's still a little of it left, but I haven't got rid of all of it.

[1139] But I got, but I said, you know, Dave, you're a mess.

[1140] Dave, you're an idiot.

[1141] Dave, you're out of control.

[1142] It is not good self.

[1143] If you would not eat everything in sight, you would not be the size of an elephant.

[1144] You were not an idiot.

[1145] You were making idiot choices.

[1146] I was doing idiot stuff.

[1147] Well, I'm just saying.

[1148] I did not have an identity crisis, never fear.

[1149] But, I mean, the point is that I looked down just like you did.

[1150] I said, what I'm doing is not working.

[1151] I'm getting negative results for negative behavior.

[1152] I've got to change my behavior.

[1153] That's a huge thing.

[1154] And I did.

[1155] I hadn't had a donut since the Fauci pandemic.

[1156] So, and I lost 37 pounds, and I've walked every day for 1 ,473 days as of this morning, at least a mile up to 5 to 7 miles in most days.

[1157] So, yeah, I get it.

[1158] I understand.

[1159] But what did I do there to change my behavior, my negative behaviors that were giving me negative results was I said, what has to be true?

[1160] What has to change?

[1161] Well, it's, you know, weight loss is a lot like money.

[1162] It's a fairly simple concept.

[1163] you eat less there it is and you exercise more there it is and so with money what are we going to do we're going to make more so you need to probably be working more and maybe even at a different place i don't know you might make more you might be able to find a better job and then the second thing anonymous is i would be giving the every dollar app you can download it for free if you want the upgrade, it's just a few dollars, and it connects to your bank.

[1164] But that's the world's best budgeting app.

[1165] And what the budget does is it's making every one of your dollars behave before you get them.

[1166] That's the trick to budgeting.

[1167] As you say, before it occurs, before the money comes into my hand, I'm going to already have spent it on paper on purpose, on the app or whatever.

[1168] And that will give you control.

[1169] control.

[1170] Then the discipline will come from you saying, I don't want to live like this anymore.

[1171] So I'm going to live like that.

[1172] I'm going to be the guy that wrote this stuff down.

[1173] I'm going to be the guy that doesn't eat a donut.

[1174] I'm going to be the guy that doesn't sit on his butt and watch Netflix.

[1175] He's going to get up and go walk four miles.

[1176] I'm going to be the guy that does something different because I want a different result.

[1177] But you've got something to measure it against.

[1178] In my case, it was the scales.

[1179] In your case, it's some debt.

[1180] And, and you're, and you're your written down budget will give you tremendous motivation if you really mean it.

[1181] And I'll be honest, I've been doing this 32 years, reading this email from you, Anonymous, I think you really mean it.

[1182] Yeah, and you see things like I spend so much of my income on going out to eat.

[1183] So like the planning with your money, you plan food, though.

[1184] I mean, like, you know what I mean?

[1185] And just to say, okay, I'm going to meal plan on Sunday night and I'm going to know when we eat for breakfast, lunch, lunch, and dinner every single day.

[1186] And it's not going to be great food.

[1187] It's going to be cheap and it's going to be quick.

[1188] but I'm going to do that instead of going out for a drink I can't afford to yep and so it is my buddies want to go out to eat I can't afford to and it's like a muscle it takes time it takes time to build it and so there's going to be but anonymous that couple that was just up here that was making $170 ,000 a year they made their lunch and took it to work hello and they paid off $289 ,000 in debt and change is hard though and I think like well and we laugh at you sometimes or I laugh at you sometimes because you're like, change.

[1189] Just change.

[1190] You do this, like, clapping thing.

[1191] And I'm like, but here's the deal.

[1192] It's, it is, it is difficult because there is a norm that you set in.

[1193] It's a human experience of like, what I know is normal is comfortable.

[1194] Even though I know it's wrong.

[1195] And that change, it's going, that's almost the scarier step.

[1196] It's almost the scarier step to say, I'm going.

[1197] That's why I say baby step one, sometimes the hardest.

[1198] Because I'm engaging in something new.

[1199] And so, you know, in a sense.

[1200] Changing to do something that feels hard is hard.

[1201] Yes.

[1202] But change is not necessarily hard.

[1203] If you change from driving a horrible car to driving a great car, that's not hard.

[1204] Yeah, that's fair.

[1205] I guess so.

[1206] That's a good change.

[1207] So that's not a hard change.

[1208] If you change from living in a dump to moving into a million -dollar house, that's not a hard change.

[1209] Change is easy.

[1210] When it feels benefit, it's when the change has sacrificed involved.

[1211] What you've got to do is you have to say, is this hard change taking me to a better place, then I got to work my way through it.

[1212] You know, is it worth it?

[1213] And it's like the bumper sticker when I'm, you know, I'm fat from the donuts.

[1214] I see his bumper sticker and it says nothing tastes as good as it is, nothing tastes as good as it feels to be thin.

[1215] And so don't put it in your mouth.

[1216] You know, it's that kind of thing.

[1217] You cannot run a Big Mac.

[1218] And so you can't do enough exercise to eat Big Macs.

[1219] It doesn't work.

[1220] So that's it.

[1221] And so these things, you know, you get, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one.

[1222] one else.

[1223] No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.

[1224] And so instead of sitting down and looking at my numbers and going, well, this can't be done, you know, there's no way.

[1225] Instead, I start looking at my numbers ago, what has to change?

[1226] What must be different?

[1227] Okay, we're not eating out.

[1228] We're going to have a written game plan.

[1229] We're going to look at increasing our income.

[1230] And when you align yourself to all of those, because the belief that you're getting to, that those are going to take you to a better place, you'll instantly be motivated.

[1231] No one exercises, well, I won't say that.

[1232] Most people don't exercise because it's fun.

[1233] Some of you do, but you're sick.

[1234] But most people exercise because it's good for you.

[1235] But you do get a high, though.

[1236] You do get a high.

[1237] You do get a high off of it.

[1238] Don't kill their husbands.

[1239] You get a high off of it when you're done.

[1240] Name that movie.

[1241] But I'm just saying, it's, you do get a high.

[1242] It's not because it's like, who -hoo, you know.

[1243] And so there's, I mean, yesterday morning it was raining.

[1244] I did not want to walk.

[1245] It was not fun.

[1246] I did not want to walk.

[1247] What I wanted was the result more than I wanted the action.

[1248] Yeah, I can't tell you that was fun.

[1249] You should lift.

[1250] Yeah, I should do something.

[1251] But, yeah, but at least I did that.

[1252] So you're trying to find something I can do indoors, I know.

[1253] But anyway, the point being anonymous, I really think, you're on to something.

[1254] I really think there's good things that are going to come to your life because, you know, discipline, no discipline seems pleasant at the time.

[1255] His question was, how do you learn discipline?

[1256] But it yields a harvest of righteousness.

[1257] The way you focus on it is you focus on the harvest.

[1258] What you're going to get?

[1259] But there's also the day in and day out consistency that it just becomes a part of who you are.

[1260] James Claire talks about how new habits, you just take on a new identity.

[1261] I am a person that fills in the blink.

[1262] I am not a person that borrows money.

[1263] Yep.

[1264] I am a person that does not have credit.

[1265] I'm a person who takes their lunch to work.

[1266] That is who I am.

[1267] Right?

[1268] I mean, like it's these new identity markers.

[1269] I'm a person with four pieces of plastic in my pocket.

[1270] Two debit cards, my driver's license, my handgun carry permit.

[1271] These are the only plastic I own.

[1272] I don't have any other plastic.

[1273] That's the person that I am.

[1274] And, you know, somebody says, well, you need to borrow money to do that.

[1275] I can't do that because I don't.

[1276] I'm a person that doesn't.

[1277] borrow money and so you're a person that has discipline you're a person it works extra you're a person that doesn't eat out when they're broke you're a person that doesn't go to happy hour when you should be working overtime you're a person you know and that you're right that james clear change of identity and atomic habits is a big yeah anonymous i think this is a fabulous question and i'm really encouraged for you this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1278] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and co -host of the super popular smart money happy hour on the Ramsey Networks is my co -host today.

[1279] Also my daughter.

[1280] Phone number 3888255 -225.

[1281] Victoria starts this hour in Portland, Oregon.

[1282] Hey, Victoria, what's up?

[1283] Yeah, hey, Dave and Rachel.

[1284] Thanks so much for taking my call.

[1285] Sure.

[1286] How can we help?

[1287] Yeah, my fiancé and I are getting married in July.

[1288] Just this week, we started your Financial Peace University.

[1289] And within the last month, we've been meeting weekly to go over our personal budget through the every dollar app.

[1290] Just for personal debt, my fiancé has about 4 ,000 left on his student loans that should be paid off in two months.

[1291] Cool.

[1292] My fan say he is a contractor.

[1293] He has a construction company.

[1294] He brings home about, not brings home, but his salary is about 65 annually.

[1295] I work full -time.

[1296] I have a side business that I recently started with my employer, and I bring home the same amount.

[1297] You guys are doing great.

[1298] Congratulations.

[1299] Thank you.

[1300] My question is, how should we approach business debt?

[1301] Who has business debt?

[1302] we both do so my fiance has business debt he has about 180 and then in my what what did he buy on a lot of equipment so he has an excavator two trucks dump trailer a loan in a credit card and there may there may be another loan okay and what about you calling yeah so for me mine might be a little bit unique um my business partner who is my employer he has funded 30 ,000 into it, into the business.

[1303] I'm sorry.

[1304] Your business partner is your employer.

[1305] Those things are inconsistent.

[1306] Well, you're like day job, and then you guys started a business.

[1307] Is that right?

[1308] Correct.

[1309] Yeah, correct.

[1310] Outside of my 40 hours.

[1311] And so that person put $30 ,000 into the business that you started together?

[1312] Correct.

[1313] How is that debt then?

[1314] They invested into it.

[1315] Well, I guess it's not really then, is it?

[1316] because I'm not paying it back right now.

[1317] You're not supposed to be, is it supposed to be repaid by the partnership before profits come out or something?

[1318] That's how I've always assumed is that it would get paid back.

[1319] Do we not have an agreement as to how it will be paid off?

[1320] I guess for that one, no, we don't.

[1321] You need to get one by the end of the weekend.

[1322] Okay.

[1323] We need to know what's going on here.

[1324] This is the kind of stuff that destroys partnerships and businesses.

[1325] She has one set of expectations and you have another.

[1326] And then all of a sudden the thing gets blindsided.

[1327] So you guys need to determine that very, very quickly.

[1328] Usually it would be something like a percentage of the profits go to the debt until the debt is cleared.

[1329] Okay.

[1330] That would be a normal thing.

[1331] And until there's profit, until there's profit, there wouldn't be any.

[1332] It's not dead until their investment.

[1333] Their investment is recouped is really actually the terminology.

[1334] Okay.

[1335] Now, over on his side, he needs to quit.

[1336] buying equipment.

[1337] As of, correct, correct.

[1338] And he's on board with that, not buying additional equipment.

[1339] Yeah, he's got way too much.

[1340] He may need to sell some.

[1341] Now, he took a salary of $65 ,000.

[1342] What was his actual profit?

[1343] I don't know.

[1344] So next week in our budget meeting, we're going to be going over his business.

[1345] And then I'm actually going to be set up taking Quickbook classes, and I'm going to be taking over.

[1346] that for his business to start helping out okay all right so um probably i do know i do know probably we need to find half of that debt in equipment to sell because i don't think his business i don't think he's got another hundred thousand coming out of that business so i don't think he's making much money considering the amount of debt he is so i'm scared okay $180 ,000 on a $65 ,000 net is really scary.

[1347] Right.

[1348] That's what I mean.

[1349] 80 ,000, I can see my way to work through that.

[1350] So I'm selling about half of this stuff, give or take, and, you know, try to get a bunch of the debt paid off that way.

[1351] Now, then let me give you one other nuance, and then let's address your question.

[1352] Okay.

[1353] The nuance is this.

[1354] They're technically in both of these situations are not business debt because he signed.

[1355] personally for that equipment right the bank doesn't think he has a business the bank thinks it's him the law thing the law thinks it's him and you didn't borrow money so you don't have that you have an investor that has to a recoup plan on the investment before you guys divvy up profits or as you divvy up profits or something you got to figure that out but his equipment is personal debt that he uses for business that's the legal, technical thing.

[1356] That does matter because, you know, it's him that'll be bankrupt if this goes sideways, not his business.

[1357] That's what matters.

[1358] Now, once we said all of that, then we say, we're going to get the quick books going.

[1359] You're doing very good stuff, Victoria.

[1360] You're asking all the right questions.

[1361] You're doing all the right things.

[1362] Congratulations.

[1363] And you've got good answers to everything so far.

[1364] Now, when you're doing the quick books, what we suggest when I'm teaching our Entree leadership brand, and he can start.

[1365] listening to the entree leadership podcast if he wants to as if he wants to learn business stuff from us it's how we teach small businesses to grow their business like we grew this one when i find that they have debt i do it differently than i do with your personal credit card debt okay okay what we do there is we say after he makes a basic living wage out of the business which now he's getting married you know he might make that be 40 000 okay Because put with your income, you guys can probably make it at home if he's doing that.

[1366] Everything after that, we're going to call profit.

[1367] So pretend like he was just a manager at this business and got paid $40 ,000 and I was the owner.

[1368] Then whatever was left from a keeping books standpoint, income minus expenses, including them $40 ,000 manager, is net profit.

[1369] You know that, right?

[1370] Right.

[1371] Okay.

[1372] So of that net profit figure, whatever it is, and you can adjust.

[1373] just the salary to be whatever you want to be.

[1374] But of that net profit, I want the vast majority of it each month to go to debt reduction and the rest of it to go to retained earnings, which is business talk for savings account.

[1375] Okay.

[1376] Now, so most companies will do something like 7030 or 80, 20.

[1377] So like 80 % of your net profit after you take a living wage goes towards the debt, 20 goes to build up, your retained earnings because you have to have some cash in business to operate.

[1378] And how much, like how many months of that would be of retained earnings?

[1379] No, no, no, no, no. He's going to every month take a percentage, every month take a percentage of the net profit, whatever that is, a bunch of it, 80%, whatever, set the formula ahead of time.

[1380] You all look at that and figure it out, 70%, 80%, whatever is going to go to debt.

[1381] The other is going to go and retained earnings.

[1382] if retained earnings gets too big and you know you got too much money in the bank reach over and pay off a piece of equipment right but I don't think that's going to happen I don't think that's going to be your issue you're probably going to be short of cash with the formula I'm giving you you're probably not going to have as much as you want especially now that you can't borrow money anymore to buy more equipment you're going to want cash to do that after you get the other equipment paid off but that's a formula that'll work for you I think you guys are on the track of success well done this is the Ramsey show Rachel Cruz.

[1383] Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1384] Cassie is with us in Denver.

[1385] Hi, Cassie.

[1386] Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[1387] Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[1388] Sure.

[1389] What's up?

[1390] So I'm looking for advice on how to improve my relationship with my husband as we struggle with burnout and the feeling of equity during baby steps two and three.

[1391] So we've been doing the baby steps for eight months.

[1392] and had our first baby seven months ago and prior to that it was easy to feel like equal contributors to the household and relationship which is important to us but now he's working extra and I'm doing more at home with the baby even though we're both working really hard it's just hard to get that feeling that we're both in the same spot we're both dealing with the burnout right now and we're just kind of looking for any advice you guys might have you're not burnout you have a new baby yeah It's really hard.

[1393] I'm keeping one of my grandkids tonight.

[1394] It's hard.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] I'm keeping the littlest one.

[1397] It's hard.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] Because they take up a lot of energy.

[1400] They can't do anything, can they?

[1401] They're completely helpless.

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] And I guess, you know, me taking on more of the household stuff, I'm feeling a different burnt out than he is.

[1404] Well, you've got a brand new thing.

[1405] You've never had this gig before.

[1406] Right.

[1407] If you guys weren't working.

[1408] baby step two and three just having a newborn it ain't no picnic yeah and it's a different kind of exhaustion yeah what you're doing cassey you never sleep right yeah it's that and it's just yeah it's yeah it's a lot it's a lot of stress uh how much debt do you guys have left uh 39000 okay do you guys have a timeline on when you think it'll be paid off so we're actually we know we're getting inheritance probably 50 to 60 000 this summer but we're trying to live like we're not getting that um trying to make the sacrifices now so we don't go back into that and then also we don't have a house so the end goal is a down payment for the house more the more you can pay off the more the inheritance can go towards the house i love that yeah exactly yeah yeah okay so the way not number one we have brand new baby is a different kind of thing i'm not i'm not poking fun i'm i'm empathizing it's a real you've got it's one of the toughest times for exhaustion and a different kind of fatigue than you'll ever have any other time in your life.

[1409] As a matter of fact, every day it gets better.

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] After this.

[1412] It really does.

[1413] By the night last night.

[1414] There you go.

[1415] See, I'm not kidding.

[1416] Every day gets better.

[1417] It's precious and it's wonderful, but it's exhausting.

[1418] And so it's a different kind of thing than just we're working our tails off to get out of debt.

[1419] It's also a different kind of thing because your body's.

[1420] adjusting after having had a child and so that the physical attributes of that um affect this discussion too in a very real way and that's wonderful too but it's also a very real part of the chemistry of what's going on it's just tiring yeah it's just tired you get tired yeah Cass um so your husband are you working outside at all the home or are you you there full time oh yeah I work I work work full time and and so yeah do you have you guys set down because even my husband and I we did this when I was working and we had kids where it was like what what are the things around the house that I need help with that I feel like oh my gosh like I can't do all of this and where are the areas that he could step in right and it's and everything's for a season life is going to change when when you know even if you have a second baby it just it changes the dynamic again but have you guys sat down and have those conversations because I think to the responsibility at times especially if you're a driver as a like a you're a strong driver as a woman it can feel like oh yeah I'll just take care of it all I can do it and asking for help is really difficult and so have you set down and talked about that yeah we have and it's honestly gotten better than since I originally wrote in already it's improved from talking okay good I think it's it's hard because he works a physical job and mine's a desk job and then we just start getting into that whole yeah it doesn't matter who deserves a relaxing yeah no no no I think that's you start splitting hairs because there's a different type of exhaustion to all of it.

[1421] You did a physical thing having a baby.

[1422] Well, and her job, but her job is a desk job right now.

[1423] And then you're at work all day and then you got a baby.

[1424] Yeah, I'm like it's a, it's kind of all like we're all in this together.

[1425] It's not this, oh, keeping, score keeping of, well, you do this kind of job here and I do this.

[1426] And you know what I mean?

[1427] Like, it can get into that.

[1428] And I think it's kind of this like whole mindset of like, we're both exhausted.

[1429] So what is the plan of action for us?

[1430] us to get through, even just day to day, the basics and necessities of stuff, and feeling some level of that control in the household, because it is chaotic.

[1431] I mean, it's really difficult.

[1432] But when you have that stuff laid out, and I think that's what Winston I did, we kind of blew up the whole, like, responsibility, roles and responsibility of what we kind of thought and kind of assumed each other.

[1433] And for a short period of time, we're going to make it whatever it needs to be.

[1434] Yeah, yeah.

[1435] It's kind of all hands on deck, feel.

[1436] And we could change it back and forth, and we could do it for two weeks and change it again.

[1437] Yep.

[1438] But I think you're, you know, when you said, Cassie, you all sat down and started talking about it.

[1439] But I want to give you permission.

[1440] I don't think it's burnout.

[1441] I think it's just tired.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] Burnout is, I don't emotionally, there's no light at the end of the tunnel except an oncoming train.

[1444] You actually see your way through this.

[1445] You're just freaking tired.

[1446] Yeah.

[1447] that's fair you know and and sometimes when you have to pick up something out of the floor or take out the trash or something because he went to sleep because he just worked a 12 -hour shift or something like that you know it's easy to it's when you're tired you get grouchy at least I do I'm grouchy sometimes when I'm not tired so a little bit today so uh but yeah the uh you know see what I'm saying so uh I just want to give you I want you guys to give your permission give yourself permission to say we are in a very unusual season of life we're trying to do two very hard things at the same time get out of debt by working very intensely and deal with a newborn both of these are heavy lifting together it's really heavy and it won't be for long yeah okay and and then that helps me if if if i'm at the end of the game and i'm exhausted i got to run one more play i got to do one more thing i got to push one more mile to finish that run whatever it is i'm at the end as long as i can see the end i'm not burn out i'm just tired yeah and you're there you can see the end and you've done up you honestly from what you're describing i think you're both doing great i just think you haven't given yourself enough credit for how much crap you've been going through i mean how hard this is it's hard the only thing we've we know And to your point, Cassie, marriage changes so drastically after you have a baby.

[1448] I'm like, your marriage looks different in a sense.

[1449] I'm like the lack of sleep, the connection, like all of that that you're talking about is so normal, so, so normal.

[1450] So yeah, I would say even for you guys, like find a couple of things.

[1451] I don't know, for us, it just helped levity.

[1452] Like if we could just find levity and laughter and like things just to like relieve some of that tension and pressure that can build up, I think is really helpful.

[1453] because you guys may not be at a place who are like, oh yeah, weekly date nights.

[1454] I feel like some people are like, do a weekly date night?

[1455] I'm like, do you know how crazy how crazy our life is?

[1456] Like we're not in a season to do that.

[1457] But like what's something fun?

[1458] And Deloni will probably, Dr. John Deloney will probably kill me for saying this.

[1459] But I'm like even like, even like a stupid TV show that it's like the thing that you guys do.

[1460] You sit down together and you watch it makes you laugh.

[1461] Like what's a thing that just can bring some levity to you guys, I think is, is always helpful, especially in these seasons.

[1462] And if, yeah, and if they're just now sleeping through the night at seven months.

[1463] It's just, it's exhausting.

[1464] Yeah.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] But you guys are doing a really good job, Cassie, and it doesn't last forever.

[1467] And, but I know, I know exactly how you feel because it's, it's a lot.

[1468] But I, it also helps to put the right language on it.

[1469] And burnout's not the right language.

[1470] Tired is the right language.

[1471] And I, and, and by the way, it's, it's, it's, you have a right to be tired.

[1472] That's what we're trying to tell you.

[1473] But it's also worth it.

[1474] So keep going, you know.

[1475] Figure it out, sit down, parse out the chores.

[1476] Go, honey, tonight, I just can't do this.

[1477] I'm going to bed.

[1478] I mean, whatever.

[1479] Or, yeah, you got to take the midnight.

[1480] You know, I can't do it.

[1481] You know, whatever.

[1482] And you just go back and forth with that, and you just work your way through till the end on this.

[1483] And you do, you figure out what you can do and what you can't do and keep handing it back and forth, handing it back and forth until you get across the goal line.

[1484] And you'll get there.

[1485] You'll get there.

[1486] I think you're probably a lot stronger than you feel like you are.

[1487] matter of fact i'm sure you are this is the ramsie show rachel cruise ramsie personality is my co -host today on the debt -free stage in the lobby of ramsie solutions headquarters john is with us hey john how are you better than i deserve dave very cool and where do you live sir seattle washington very good how much debt have you paid 59000 or 59000 696 i love it and how long did this take three years nine months 27 days.

[1488] All right.

[1489] And your range of income during that time.

[1490] 20 ,000 to start.

[1491] And then after a lot of side hustles and a little bit of overtime, 60 ,000.

[1492] Very cool.

[1493] What do you do now?

[1494] I'm a youth pastor, and I'm also a financial coach part -time with your Ramsey preferred coaching team.

[1495] Cool.

[1496] So dare to be different Romans 12 too.

[1497] Yep.

[1498] All right.

[1499] Be not conform to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

[1500] Amen.

[1501] Yep.

[1502] Good.

[1503] I love it.

[1504] More of my favorite scriptures.

[1505] Good for you.

[1506] Well done.

[1507] well done, well done.

[1508] What kind of debt was the 60 ,000?

[1509] Student loans.

[1510] Oh, baby.

[1511] Youth pastor was student loans.

[1512] Yep.

[1513] Making no money.

[1514] You get out of school and looked up three years ago nine months and said, I got to do this or what?

[1515] Yeah, so kind of like everyone, or I was a high schooler, didn't really have any plans.

[1516] I jumped straight into student loans, went to a private Christian school, and didn't actually think about it.

[1517] I was like, oh, signing.

[1518] Okay, whatever.

[1519] I don't really care what I was doing.

[1520] Two and a half years in, I'm in my dorm, and I see this book, and it's five college mistakes.

[1521] You can't afford to miss by Rachel Cruz and Anthony O 'Neill.

[1522] I was like, oh, that's a good book.

[1523] And I looked at it.

[1524] And one of the chapters was college choice.

[1525] And said, public in state versus private out of state.

[1526] And that's what I did.

[1527] And I was like, oh, no, what did I do?

[1528] And I looked and I saw I accumulated 60 ,000 and I was only halfway through my degree.

[1529] So I just had this holy crap, like full of shame, full of hope.

[1530] hopelessness, like, what am I going to do?

[1531] And during my part -time college job, I was actually kind of looking and I scrolled upon a Dave Ramsey, you know, bald guy giving someone hope on YouTube.

[1532] And I just jumped all in, just started consuming the podcast, the YouTube, and I realized, wait a minute, I can pay for my degree online while working full time.

[1533] So I actually stopped.

[1534] It was December 2019, right before COVID.

[1535] So I did online before.

[1536] It was cool.

[1537] That wasn't a plan, but everyone kind of followed my vote steps.

[1538] Not really, but totally happened.

[1539] Yep.

[1540] But honestly, the COVID pause actually helped me kind of accelerate my debt payment, but I made $1 ,600 a month to start off.

[1541] And it was nothing.

[1542] Wow.

[1543] And 150 bucks a month for groceries.

[1544] Instacart, DoorDash, House sitting, cat sitting, anything and everything.

[1545] But long story, shory, I even worked for a car dealership for part of it.

[1546] But using Ken Coleman's materials, realized I have a passion for helping high schoolers find and follow Jesus.

[1547] And that became just really evident through the Ken Coleman materials, just community speaking into my life, as well as, oh, wait, I also have this passion for finances since finances is the biggest and common reasons for divorce.

[1548] So I then kind of did that.

[1549] So now I'm actually at a church, Bethany Pialup.

[1550] We do FPU, which I love because I get to point my high schoolers to it, but a new thing now that I'm debt -free and now I can do is every senior that graduates, I'm going to give a copy of the total money makeover and say, hey, I was an idiot with money and I didn't follow God's ways of handling money.

[1551] I was a terrible steward for his resources, for his kingdom and for his glory, please learn from me and to talk about what scripture actually says about it.

[1552] to also like help them set them up for success and to like recognize that your decisions you know have um they impact your future so that's what you're amazing well done sir so well done how old are you 25 all right very cool good for you good for you who was your biggest cheerleader while you're going through this i had a bunch of cheerleaders my mom and my sister um i got a list uh Dave and Sarah Stahoskey the rental house I'm allowed to stay in a community group the gouges for my landscaping job accountability Jeff Brink Sean McArthur, Matt Rand, Noah Lilly, and Tony Duck.

[1553] Almost like he knew I was going to ask you.

[1554] I've listened to so many of these.

[1555] We've had this conversation so many times.

[1556] I just wasn't on the other end.

[1557] But one person in particular, I have a guitar pick that says, never give up pork chop.

[1558] And pork chop was my family middle name.

[1559] And July 21st this year, my dad passed away.

[1560] Oh, my.

[1561] And he was one of my biggest.

[1562] cheerleaders and um i got out of debt in october and he didn't get to see it and um actually actually he did you're right um but he sent me or anytime you were on fox news day if he would like send me articles he's like john you're kicking this dead's butt keep going and um he uh he modeled for me sacrifice growing up and um it was hard man i there were times i didn't want to wake up early to landscaping and do all that stuff but dad sacrificed for me and my sister growing up so I had that picture you know Rachel says more's caught than Totten I got that for my dad wow and um that's amazing I miss him and I'm actually want to kind of dedicate this to him because I really miss them but yeah you got the t -shirt done that's great I like it I like it I like the pick on there that's very cool so good stuff gosh John so for you I mean your dad's story integrated throughout this, I know was a difficult part of the journey.

[1563] But for you being, you know, in your mid -20s, kind of figuring all this out and wanting to do something extreme, like get out of debt, right?

[1564] And all this and all these student loans, what was the hardest thing?

[1565] Like, what was it the work?

[1566] You mentioned the landscaping.

[1567] Like, what was the thing that was like, man, that, that was the difficult.

[1568] That was the difficult part.

[1569] I think it was everything.

[1570] It was submitting to a process that's worked for millions of people.

[1571] And I think the key for me, Well, it was saying no, working a lot, like being okay with like, I can't go skydiving or can't go on this, can't do that.

[1572] But I realize it was like, you know what, I want to be 25 without any student loans.

[1573] And I want to be a good steward of God's resources for his kingdom and his glory.

[1574] And I want to model it, you know, and don't let anyone look down at you because you're young what's said an example for the believers.

[1575] Amen.

[1576] I mean, speech, life, and love, and faith, and purity.

[1577] And I want to do that for my students.

[1578] but I think submitting to a process that's biblical, that's clear, that has clear set paths, and I think there's something about that that impacts your mental health, your finances, your relationships, and there's something about God's ways of handling life that not just thinking about it, but actually doing it is really powerful, and you get to reap the fruit that comes from it.

[1579] So, but it's awesome.

[1580] It is.

[1581] It cuts through.

[1582] It cuts through quick and deep.

[1583] Well done.

[1584] Proud of you, man. Thanks, man. Good work.

[1585] Good work.

[1586] I know your mom is proud of you.

[1587] Your sister's proud of you and your daddy's proud of you.

[1588] Well done.

[1589] Thank you for your mentorship.

[1590] Excellent.

[1591] Excellent stuff.

[1592] Excellent stuff.

[1593] Okay.

[1594] So when someone says what's the key to getting out of debt, what do you tell them?

[1595] Ownership.

[1596] Ownership.

[1597] I think ownership, vision, for me, like, I realized, I didn't really know what I was doing when I signed those papers, but I did.

[1598] And I have to own that.

[1599] But I'm, you know, I was the problem.

[1600] But now I get to tell my clients, I was like, hey, you were the problem.

[1601] Good news, you're the solution, you know?

[1602] You can do it.

[1603] And the power of the renewing of your mind, it's like, yes, the decision is hard, but you can do it.

[1604] You can rewire your brain.

[1605] You can do not be conform to the powers of this world.

[1606] And honestly, dare to be different.

[1607] I think we as followers of Jesus should be different in areas, every area of our life, not just our finances, but our relationships, our marriages, every area of your life.

[1608] So that's why I wrote, Dare to be different.

[1609] And do not be conform to the patterns of this world.

[1610] So, amen.

[1611] That's awesome.

[1612] Well done, sir.

[1613] Thank you.

[1614] Congratulations.

[1615] Very, very well done.

[1616] All right, John from Seattle, $60 ,000 in student loan debt paid off in three years and nine months, making $20 ,000 a year up to $60 ,000 with lots of side hustles.

[1617] Yeah, don't tell me you can't do this.

[1618] Those numbers, that's tough.

[1619] That's some tough numbers right there.

[1620] Well done, sir.

[1621] Very well done.

[1622] Count it down.

[1623] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1624] Three.

[1625] Two, one, I'm death free!

[1626] Yeah, love it!

[1627] That's as good as it gets, boys and girls.

[1628] Love it, love it, love it.

[1629] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1630] Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 13, 12, hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.

[1631] Tommy LaSorda said, there are three kinds of people in this world, people who make it happen, people who watch what happens, and people who wonder, happened.

[1632] Elizabeth is in Colorado Springs.

[1633] Hey, Elizabeth, welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1634] Hello, thank you so much.

[1635] I'm excited to talk to you all.

[1636] You too.

[1637] How can we help?

[1638] We are facing in the next several months some changes in our finances.

[1639] We have not lived on a written budget yet.

[1640] We've just kind of lived in our means, but I am tired of being panicky every night, wondering where my money is.

[1641] And just now going into, this season of uncertainty.

[1642] I don't know how to start building that budget.

[1643] And what's the season of uncertainty again?

[1644] Sorry.

[1645] May I miss that?

[1646] Yeah.

[1647] So we just had our third child.

[1648] And right before she was born, we found out that our daycare provider is moving.

[1649] So now we have to enroll our kids in a new daycare, which is essentially doubling our daycare bills starting in July.

[1650] we are also any day now going to start receiving these bills from the hospital so you're just trying to figure out what those are going to be while also still paying off our debts and you know trying to provide for our family okay good news elizabeth none of that is uncertain it's all very certain okay it's happening it's not like you can't predict it you can know it it may be hard but it's not uncertain it may be and the amount may be uncertain with that with the medical bills.

[1651] Well, I mean, you know, no, it's not.

[1652] I mean, you know you've got insurance and you can tally up what the, what your co -pay is and figure out what your bills are going to be.

[1653] You shouldn't, on a normal labor and delivery, if you've got normal insurance, you shouldn't have a huge bill there, but it's not, it's not one that's going to break your back.

[1654] But what it amounts to is, is just as you decided to tackle this, you had three things come at you that were extra.

[1655] Well, two, one is I want to get out of debt.

[1656] That didn't come at you, but the other two things came at you.

[1657] So, you know, what you're saying is it's going to be, it was really going to be hard to budget anyway.

[1658] Now it's going to be super hard.

[1659] Right.

[1660] Not to budget, to make the budget work with the income we have.

[1661] And so what you're going to have to do is look in and say what, there may be something that has to give.

[1662] Like you landed on this daycare that's double.

[1663] You may have to keep looking.

[1664] That one may not fit your budget.

[1665] That one might not be the, yeah, we're on the wait.

[1666] for other closer, cheaper options.

[1667] Yeah, but the one that you had was some kind of, it was a friend or something.

[1668] What was it?

[1669] Yeah, yeah, it was just, it was a stay -at -home mom that just wanted pocket money, basically.

[1670] Okay, you've got to keep looking for that.

[1671] Yes.

[1672] To replace the one you got.

[1673] And then it's not double.

[1674] How old's your baby?

[1675] How old's the third?

[1676] She's three weeks.

[1677] Oh, wow.

[1678] Oh, wonderful.

[1679] You just have the baby.

[1680] All right.

[1681] So, yeah, I think what happens is, as you say, all right, we're going to lay out the written game plan, and the written game plan is food is first, shelter is second, lights and water is third, and then with what's left, we try to figure out all this other stuff, right?

[1682] Okay.

[1683] And so, because you will emotionally be in a better place if you know you have a place to live, the heat is on, the water is on, and there's food on the table.

[1684] now the rest of it's a monopoly game and when will you go back to work Elizabeth or are the other two older ones I guess that they're still in daycare yeah they're still in daycare I go back mid -June and then with that I'm going to keep home my oldest when the younger two go to daycare until she starts preschool which we also have to build into the budget and like when she'll start in mid -August then okay wow okay yeah so I think I think you're what we're saying is the good news is you're going to see all this coming and you're going to happen to it instead of it happening to you but it is still going to be tight and it's going to be stressful but not nearly as stressful as if you added chaos to it right so that is a relief yeah and I would find out even like the as much as you can get the facts I think is helpful is but so even the medical stuff you're like oh my gosh the medical bills are going to hit figure out how much those are and see okay, if we do a payment plan, like, you know, can we, are we able to pay off, you know, X amount next month and really be really, really specific?

[1685] And even for you, because there's going to be so much change with you going back to work in June, another kid starts a different preschool in August, like even do, if you do the every dollar app, which if you hold on the line, Emily will pick up and we'll get you the premium version for a year.

[1686] But go ahead and build out a couple of months of budgets, looking out, knowing that these months ahead, that the budgets will change, but at least you can kind of get a plan of like, okay, this is what it looks like here, here, and here.

[1687] It is amazing when you have facts down and those numbers are actually down on paper.

[1688] It's not just in your head.

[1689] It does give you peace.

[1690] It lowers the stress.

[1691] It gives you a lot of peace.

[1692] Yeah.

[1693] No, that's exactly what I need.

[1694] Yeah, because when you, again, when you know the house payments paid, the lights and water is on and there's food on the table, then you can go, oh, okay.

[1695] Now, the rest of this is inconvenient.

[1696] Now, we know that we can pay the, medical bills and even the preschool and installments, is that considered debt?

[1697] Should we try to pay that off?

[1698] Preschool's not.

[1699] Preschool is just you're paying it monthly.

[1700] That's like paying your electric bill monthly.

[1701] I mean, you're paying for it as you use it.

[1702] But the medical bills would be debt.

[1703] If you can clear it, clear it.

[1704] You have any money saved?

[1705] Yes.

[1706] Oh, yeah.

[1707] We're fine financially.

[1708] I just know, I don't know what things are going to look like right now.

[1709] Yeah, yeah.

[1710] Okay.

[1711] Well, the more you do what Rachel said and dig up.

[1712] that information and lay it out in a very certain way.

[1713] Yeah.

[1714] And Elizabeth, have you guys ever done a really detailed budget, like how much we spend for groceries or out to eat kids' activities?

[1715] Like, you're really like line item by line item.

[1716] Have you guys ever done that?

[1717] No. And that's always frustrated me and panicked me. Yeah.

[1718] No. So, and even go back.

[1719] Elizabeth, like the, even in your bank account the last two or three months and just kind of average out, okay, here's all my grocery store runs and just take a sheet of paper and just write them all down.

[1720] And just write them all down.

[1721] and divide it, you know, and just say, okay, on average, on average, this is what we were spending at the grocery before we were budgeting, right?

[1722] And plug those numbers in.

[1723] And then usually when you're not budgeting, you're overspending in categories, not realizing it.

[1724] And then say, okay, if we really were on a plan, what could I limit that to?

[1725] What could I shrink that down to, right?

[1726] And so it just ends up being this puzzle piece.

[1727] But you'll go back, you'll run some numbers, look back at your checking account for gas, how much you guys fill up on gas every month.

[1728] Like, it sounds so granular and detailed, but it is so, so.

[1729] so helpful and with every dollar it's going to be attached to your bank account so when those transactions come in you just drag and drop them into a category and it does the math for you and it just shows you here's how much is left in the month and just having that control like it is it's amazing it really is it'll take you guys a few months to get it down it won't be perfect and you and your husband are both looking at these numbers and you're both carrying the weight of the decisions in the household both of you are looking at it you may be the one that writes the checks or he may be the one I don't care but both of you are looking at it and saying oh if you're going to have an oh crap moment we do it as a couple if we're going to have a victory moment we do it as a couple how much you guys make a year Elizabeth we make 220 20 okay and any debt we've got 50 um and a car a home repair and some land so okay and how much how much do you have in savings um about 25 Okay.

[1730] Yeah, you guys are in great shape, Elizabeth.

[1731] I think you're doing better than you think you are.

[1732] But follow the baby steps.

[1733] Throw some of that $25 ,000 once you get those medical bills and kind of know, okay, here's a rat.

[1734] I pay the medical bills when they come in.

[1735] And then let's start cleaning up the rest of the debt and build a good strong emergency fund.

[1736] In your case, it's probably $50 ,000.

[1737] So if you had $50 ,000 in the bank and no payments but a house payment and a written game plan where every dollar had an assignment and you and your husband had agreed to it, your stress level is going to go down 90%.

[1738] That would be incredible.

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] That's why we call it financial peace.

[1741] Yeah.

[1742] You're doing, you're really asking all the right questions.

[1743] Yeah.

[1744] This is going to turn out well for you.

[1745] Proud of you.

[1746] Good stuff.

[1747] You're going to get it.

[1748] Good for you.

[1749] Well done.

[1750] Well done.

[1751] Well done.

[1752] That's how you work.

[1753] A lot of new babies, this show.

[1754] It was a baby show.

[1755] I know.

[1756] A lot of, a lot of ones.

[1757] But that's great.

[1758] And it is funny how those different, how different life events can come up.

[1759] And then you look at everything.

[1760] And you're like, oh my gosh, I was stressed about that.

[1761] I want that to change.

[1762] I see this.

[1763] And then the domino effect of really helping your life overall, it happens.

[1764] It's a beautiful thing.

[1765] It's a very John Deloney -esque thing.

[1766] There we go.

[1767] Love it.

[1768] Good job, Rachel.

[1769] That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

[1770] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1771] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1772] Christ Jesus.

[1773] Dr. John Deloney here.

[1774] Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you.

[1775] The Dr. John Deloney show is here to help.

[1776] It's a caller -driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more.

[1777] Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call.

[1778] You are never meant to do life alone.

[1779] alone, and that's what this podcast is all about.

[1780] Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.

[1781] Remember, your worth being well.