The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] Ella tells her fascinating story about how a debilitating illness during university and a subsequent mental health battle led to her creating a blog in 2012 that not only launched her career, but potentially saved her life.
[1] Since then, she's launched some record -breaking books, products into supermarkets and shops across the UK.
[2] She's built an amazing personal brand and opened up several delis across London.
[3] I can't wait to share her story with you.
[4] She gives some incredible advice which has honestly changed my perspective forever.
[5] Ladies and gentlemen, this is Deliciously Ella.
[6] Thank you so much for joining me. My pleasure.
[7] My team are all tremendously big fans of yours.
[8] We want a big food community.
[9] So the girls and guys in the office have been insisting that I sit down with you for some time now.
[10] So super, thank you for having me. And I know how busy you are because you've got a book coming out soon.
[11] You're writing a book?
[12] Yeah, I'm finishing a book at the moment.
[13] But yeah, we've got about 100 projects going on at the moment.
[14] So it is a bit manic.
[15] But it's good.
[16] What I want to do, because I always want to avoid asking the same sort of interview questions you're probably used to.
[17] And your story is out there.
[18] Yeah.
[19] And it's a tremendous story at that, how you've managed to build this tremendously big brand around yourself, but that's become much more than yourself.
[20] I want to give you a little bit of a challenge, and this is a challenge that I give, virtually all of the guests that I speak to.
[21] I'm a bit nervous.
[22] I want to give you 30 seconds to try and explain your life story.
[23] And this is something that someone once did to me, and I found it really, really hard.
[24] But it was useful in hindsight because it helped me just hit the key milestones and things that are in my mind, in retrospect, really important.
[25] Okay.
[26] So, are you up for it?
[27] Yeah.
[28] Okay, cool.
[29] I've got my timer here.
[30] Okay.
[31] So three, two, one.
[32] Go.
[33] Okay, I think the backstory is not super interesting.
[34] One of four kids, and I was always the unambitious one, the one that no one ever really saw doing many things.
[35] I always really played up to that.
[36] And then I got very, very unwell when I was at university.
[37] My university time was brilliant.
[38] It was all about having fun.
[39] and I was never kind of pushing myself.
[40] I know people said, what were you going to do?
[41] I had no idea.
[42] I don't know if anyone would have even employed me. And I got very unwell and I spent a while in hospital and I hit a real rock bottom about a year later, I really struggled with my mental health as well as my physical health.
[43] And I became interested in diet and nutrition.
[44] And I started writing a blog and I'm also really introverted person as a kind of in my core.
[45] And so I started talking to people online and communicating.
[46] And from that, I started delicious yellow.
[47] as a complete accident and it's to kind of completely change my life.
[48] Through that, I met my husband.
[49] We got married, we got dogs, started business together, all within 12 months.
[50] And that's been the kind of real core of my life and when things started happening.
[51] Perfect.
[52] How are we doing my time?
[53] You smashed it.
[54] 29 .9 seconds.
[55] Okay, I feel like there's a hundred and things I couldn't fit to him.
[56] But that's good.
[57] I'm happy about that.
[58] That was so good.
[59] So much to talk about that.
[60] One of the things that I picked up from learning more about, about your journey was your own perception that much of it was, the word I think you used was luck and timing.
[61] And this is something that I've heard a lot from speaking to successful people.
[62] And it often breeds a bit of like imposter syndrome almost.
[63] Because they look back and think, well, if I wasn't there at the right time doing that thing, then I wouldn't be here now.
[64] Do you have imposter syndrome?
[65] Yes, 100%.
[66] And it's been interesting.
[67] I feel like there have been a few kind of key moments where it's been really, really strong.
[68] You know, to begin with, not at all.
[69] I was just sharing what I was doing.
[70] People were tapping into it and it felt very small community -led.
[71] And then when my first book came out, that was when things really exploded.
[72] And suddenly...
[73] How many copies did you sell?
[74] We've sold in the UK.
[75] We've sold, I think, over 400 ,000 now.
[76] It's ridiculous.
[77] It's the best -selling debut cup of together.
[78] We've done over a million worldwide, 22 languages.
[79] I mean, it's absolutely nuts.
[80] I spent eight weeks, number one in Amazon.
[81] And I was really young.
[82] I had no idea.
[83] what I was doing and suddenly I was kind of catapulted into this world and you were on the front page of the newspaper and in magazines and everyone started talking about you rather than to you which is a very strange thing to get used to and it wasn't something that I was looking for in my life either and you know I'd actually my parents had been in the papers quite a lot as a kid and I hated it and so I wanted the polar opposite from my life so it was quite sort of weird experience and that was my first kind of real feeling of imposter syndrome of being like well why why am I there?
[84] Why am I on the front of this?
[85] Why are people talking to me?
[86] I didn't really feel like I'd done anything to kind of earn my place to do that, especially being so young.
[87] And then as we started scaling up the business, the second time I really felt it deeply was that, you know, Matthew's my husband and my business partner.
[88] He was much more experience than I was.
[89] And he said, you know, we've got to be the dumbest people in the room.
[90] Like we need to go out and hire people who have brilliant expertise and things that we don't have, which is 100 % the right approach and I think it's been a really big part of being able to get to where we are today.
[91] But it was quite a strange thing as well because, you know, suddenly, so that one of the first people we hired and God knows why he took the job was the head of innovation from Innocent Drinks.
[92] So he's brilliant and suddenly he's so experienced and, you know, he helps scale up that company and, you know, he's absolutely amazing what he does and suddenly you're sitting in the room with him and he, you know...
[93] He feels smarter than you.
[94] So much smarter and, you know, they're saying all these words and these things And I'm like, what the hell is that?
[95] And you're like, just keep quiet.
[96] Yeah, completely.
[97] And it's gone from being your company that you lead to suddenly you're Googling under the table things.
[98] To try and understand what on earth they're talking about.
[99] And you kind of feel like quite an idiot.
[100] And you sort of think, well, what's my place in this now?
[101] And it's taken me quite a long time to kind of separate what's imposter syndrome and what is genuinely timing and luck.
[102] Because I do believe in lots of success, timing and luck is.
[103] a big part of it.
[104] I think for us, it's just that when I started writing to Chisiella, I did it because I was looking for the resource to change the way I ate and I couldn't find it.
[105] And as a result, other people were looking for it too.
[106] It was, you know, there was around the time, like the horse meat scandal and people kind of eat what's in my food.
[107] You know, can I do something that's not a diet that's actually delicious that I really want to enjoy and people, you know, kind of vegetarianism, veganism, plant basically was on the rise.
[108] So people were looking for this and it wasn't really that readily available.
[109] And, you know, I went on Instagram and started sharing it there and again that was the beginning of 2013 when Instagram wasn't so big and so people looking for that kind of stuff found me much easier than they probably would now where there's so much choice 2013?
[110] Yeah, beginning of 2013 was when I started on social media so separating timing out in that sense because 100 % that played a part but also you taking advantage of that and building on that and creating on that and engaging on it and being so focused that's not luck.
[111] And do you still feel a little bit of that imposter syndrome sometimes?
[112] Sometimes.
[113] Definitely.
[114] Definitely.
[115] But I think it's getting better and I think the more that we've done, the more comfortable I feel with it because I do now feel like, okay, well, we have done this and we have created that.
[116] And, you know, we've gone, in 18 months, we've gone into five and a half thousand stores with 11 products.
[117] Like, I feel like I can be really proud of that and feel like we as a collective and kind of led by me and my husband, like we have done that.
[118] It sounds like the moments where you had like imposter syndrome the most, actually moments where you were just taking yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone.
[119] Completely massively, exactly.
[120] And I was, just couldn't quite figure out how I felt about things and where I sat.
[121] And like, I think for a lot, and I think it's quite common for founders of things to kind of as you get more and more people in, suddenly think, oh my God, that's so much better at this and that and they know all those systems.
[122] And what do I bring to the table?
[123] And it's kind of going, going, keeping out of your comfort zone, but also kind of going back to the core of what is it that you bring to stuff that is helpful.
[124] I'm in the exact same position so it's like music to my ears.
[125] And I remember feeling, especially when we started, feeling so intimidated to bring in smart people because I thought I might be exposed.
[126] Exactly.
[127] And they're going to say he's an idiot.
[128] But how much, how much better do they make you look in hindsight?
[129] So it's like good teams, like great teams make you look unbelievable.
[130] And great teams are everything.
[131] Like I'm, you know, I really truly believe that.
[132] And like, you know, I always say to people like, I know, you know, company's called the Shadilla, it has my name in it.
[133] It is my face that appears far too often for people.
[134] But behind that, the reason that we're a success is the team.
[135] And empowering that team to do what they do really well is everything.
[136] And no one is really good at everything.
[137] Like no one is brilliant at operations, you know, idea generation, supply chain management, marketing, sales.
[138] And no one has the capacity to do all of that as well.
[139] And so I think recognizing that and trying to be comfortable with that is super important as well so what is it that you have then of all those components that's the biggest question isn't what is it what is the bit that you think do you know what that's the bit that i bring to the table well i think what i came back to is the fact that it's i guess it's the vision really to be honest it's it's none of the practical stuff i'd never had a job before to the shesiela i mean when i so because i started it in the end of my second year at university and it's what i did full time once i left and so i remember like when things were really took off.
[140] I was like, God, I need to get some help.
[141] Like, I need to hire someone.
[142] And I put out on our Instagram page, you know, please someone come and work with me. And I just remember sitting down with these girls, and it was so lovely.
[143] And I didn't know what to ask them.
[144] I was like, are you nice?
[145] Can you help me?
[146] Like, I don't know, what can you do?
[147] And I just, you know, I had no idea.
[148] But I think it has has.
[149] It's always been that kind of vision.
[150] So I do all our new product development, and I'll be in the kitchen coming up with ideas.
[151] I try and, you know, I do all our social media on our community, engagement, events, talks, trying to get what we do across.
[152] I oversee everything on the brand side of things.
[153] So all the visuals, the marketing side, brand ambassadors and things like that.
[154] But I don't manage that on a day -to -day basis.
[155] And do you worry then that as you get bigger and bigger and bigger, that specialness that got you here will be diluted because there are other people that are touching the brand?
[156] Yeah, it's an interesting question that.
[157] And sort of touch wood so far, I think we've done a good job of it.
[158] But I think that's also, I'm like totally obsessive.
[159] So I still respond to every single person on our social media.
[160] I do all our social media myself.
[161] I reply to like 300 people or so on Instagram every day.
[162] And I think things like that really help.
[163] And I guess when you say, like, what can you bring?
[164] That is it, isn't it, right?
[165] Like, you can still be at the heart of the community because I'm going to be better at being Ella than someone else is going to be.
[166] Like, whereas someone who's worked in operations for 10 years is going to be better operations than me who's never worked in it.
[167] Say I'm a second year student.
[168] and it's 2018 and my name is Ella and I don't have the millions of followers starting today if you were me what would you do to build a big personal brand around a point of interest whatever that might be I mean I do think social media is phenomenal for it I mean I think our generation is so lucky I mean up until a month ago we had no one on our marketing team But no social media, anything, I still did all of that.
[169] We hired ahead of marketing a month ago, which was a brilliant thing now.
[170] But up until that point, all of our marketing, all our communication was direct to our audience.
[171] And it's worked fully, you know, I see us as a community, not a brand.
[172] And that has been a completely free way of doing something.
[173] And, you know, we see our sales and shops and we're outselling people who are spending millions on their marketing.
[174] And I do think that real deep engagement with people is really, really interesting.
[175] How did you do that?
[176] Well, it's an interesting question.
[177] I think the most, honestly, I think the most important thing is being personal, but in that you have to decide how much you're willing to share, because I think that's important as well, because people want to see so much now.
[178] You know, they want to see everything that happens in your life.
[179] And for me, that's not something I'm comfortable with.
[180] Like, I have to have a boundary between kind of being delicious yellow and being Ella, and whilst the two aren't any different, like, I don't want to show you every part of my house and every part of my friend group and all the rest of it.
[181] but you can really deeply engage with people through this and I think that's the most important thing there are so many people out there doing everything but there's always space for someone to do it in a more authentic better way I think in anything in the world and that's what you've got to do you've got to be comfortable to be yourself not to kind of take ideas from other people back to bring your ideas to the table and really engage with people in a personal way because I think people are inspired by people and if you're able to do that I think that's key and I do think content is unbelievably important Like, you know, my first pictures I found through, like, you know, in this kind of archiving website, the first blog post.
[182] And they were absolutely hideous.
[183] Everything was yellow and neon and kind of reflective light of my student house.
[184] And, like, it couldn't look any less delicious if it tried.
[185] You know, as it got better, like, the engagement definitely does go up.
[186] And you've got to make stuff useful for people, right?
[187] Like, you know, the time that people seem to connect to us best, if you're like, right, here is an easy lunch recipe.
[188] I've written it out for you.
[189] It's going to take you 15 minutes.
[190] and you just post that, that's what gets engagement.
[191] That's what gets, you know, 8 ,000 people just saving that post on Instagram because they want to come back to it.
[192] I'm trying to figure out how long you put in effort before there was any sign of results.
[193] Quite a long time.
[194] My mum was my only reader for a long time.
[195] She still is a devoted reader, but she, like, reads all the Instagram comments and we'll come back to me, like, you've missed this here.
[196] You've missed that there.
[197] This person wants to know this.
[198] I'm like, okay, I have got some other things going on, but thank you.
[199] It was, the first six months was really so, but I wasn't intending anyone to read it at that point either.
[200] And I had about 100 ,000 hits on the site in that first six months.
[201] And then in the second six months, I had 900 ,000.
[202] And that's when I was like, okay.
[203] And there was like a little map on the WordPress, back in the back end of the WordPress site I was using.
[204] And it lit up the different places in the world where people were engaging with it.
[205] And, you know, to begin with, it was just the UK.
[206] And then my sister was living in America.
[207] So you'd have stuff in America.
[208] And then my boyfriend was German.
[209] and so, you know, Germany was lighting up, but it was very close to home.
[210] And then in that second six months, it was suddenly like Little Islands in the Pacific and, you know, in Asia and South America.
[211] And, like, I don't know anyone that lives there.
[212] And so it had obviously traveled further away than my kind of immediate friends and family.
[213] And then people started emailing in being like, I made this for dinner, or I made this my kids or something.
[214] And I just, that's kind of the most bizarre experience.
[215] And I think it's still something I kind of find, very weird to get used to the fact that people were kind of taking what's especially at that point I was still doing everything in my parents kitchen at home it was really funny to think like yeah what you're creating in such a small personal environment someone 5 ,000 miles away is making for their children tonight it's a crazy crazy thing to think that like you somehow transported across the world yeah onto someone's table and that was a kind of really amazing amazing moment one of the things if I find really interesting is you said that you started the blog, but not for anybody to read almost?
[216] No, for myself.
[217] And that seems to be one of the like key ingredients in a lot of people's success is they weren't doing it for money or to make a career out of it because they were so focused on doing it because they loved it or for themselves.
[218] It became a passion, therefore it sustains the test of time and when you weren't getting paid to do it.
[219] That authenticity is really important.
[220] And I remember like as I started growing, you know, You know, I'd get offers to do this sponsored thing and promote this.
[221] And I'd just look at it and be like, well, I wouldn't eat that or I wouldn't use that.
[222] And like, it's not really in line with what I do.
[223] So, like, I'm not interested.
[224] And often, like, it can be really big companies offering you a lot of money.
[225] But because it was a personal thing and I was doing it for myself at this point and it was a hobby, I was like, well, why would I do that?
[226] I don't want to dilute what I'm doing.
[227] I want it to be as I set out it to be.
[228] And I think keeping those guidelines is really important because it means that you're really, you are bringing something useful to people because it really is authentic.
[229] It really, it does exist for a reason.
[230] And I think when it goes wrong and you see it a lot, it's when people are like, okay, I see this person's done really well from this.
[231] I'm going to make money from this too.
[232] And they basically try and kind of completely copycat something else.
[233] And it just doesn't have that soul.
[234] It doesn't have that reason for being.
[235] And like the other day, I couldn't sleep.
[236] And I was talking to Matt, my husband in bed.
[237] And I was talking about energy balls.
[238] And, you know, yeah, they're in five and a half thousand stores.
[239] We saw millions of the, in the last 18 months, it's really exciting.
[240] And I was telling him, like, their story, you know.
[241] And I, they were, when I first got ill and I was trying to change my diet, I really, I have a real sweet tooth, and I was really missing sweet stuff.
[242] And, yeah, Harry Boone.
[243] And a girlfriend of mine was like, well, you should try dates.
[244] They're really sweet.
[245] And I was like, oh, they look so brown and blobby and, like, an appetising compared to Harry Boe.
[246] And so she got me trying them, and I was like, well, these are actually really nice.
[247] You put them in the fridge and they go that bit gooeyer.
[248] dunk them in peanut butter really yummy and then I started dipping them in chocolate powder like cacao powder so it's amazing we should blend this all together I bought my first food processor I did that and then I started making them every week as my little snacks and my pick me up and then I started making them with my friends and family and then with the first thing they went on our app was the first thing we did they went in the book that's what the community were making literally first before anything and you know that was then we put it in the deli when we opened our first deli it was our most popular thing and it's kind of common on this job journey with us and it's like now you see it on the shelf in Tesco but it's not just on the shelf in Tesco like it has this whole backstory which exists for reason like it comes from a place it wasn't like let's make money let's sell this sure it was like I love this obviously our community are loving it too because they're making it all the time they're really engaging with it let's let's share this with more people and I do think that element is really important because people connect to it's almost it's like almost quite invisible the force there of authenticity behind the story that has come from a real genuine place.
[249] Like people, it's what I've noticed from like speaking to yourself and thinking about Ben who made Jim Shark and even Rankin, everybody that I've spoke to, they all started, but that story of really, really caring about what they were doing and the reason behind it.
[250] And as a result, you don't compromise on stuff because if you said you really care and it's so deeply embedded in you that, you know, when we first started looking at making our products, people say, oh, you know you can actually do this and you don't have to write those ingredients.
[251] on the back of the pack because it's the handling process or something and I was like, well, we're not going to do that because that's not honest to our audience and I feel responsible to something.
[252] You said you're not going to cut corners because you feel it so deeply.
[253] You got ill during university.
[254] How was that experience for you?
[255] And you referenced that you had struggles and battles with mental health issues through that period.
[256] That's obviously something that is very sort of prevalent in our society at the moment, especially within young people.
[257] Can you share some of your experiences with that?
[258] And then I've got a few full -up questions to ask.
[259] on that topic.
[260] Okay.
[261] I mean, that, I guess it's really weird because if you told me at that point that that this would all lead to the best thing that ever happened in my life, I probably would have, like, punched you or something.
[262] You know, I wouldn't believe you for a million years.
[263] It would have been really outraged that you'd even begin to think that.
[264] But it really did.
[265] And the challenge of that empowered me to be like, no, look, you are strong.
[266] You can do this.
[267] And any time you get like real criticism and negativity, I'm like, no, I'm stronger than that.
[268] I can do that.
[269] So, weirdly, I'm really grateful for it.
[270] but it was a really, really tough couple of years.
[271] So I was 19 and I was at the end of my second year at uni and I'd had the best time.
[272] Growing up was quite an interesting time.
[273] My parents had a very challenging relationship and I was really happy to be kind of away from that.
[274] I was up in Scotland and I was like really feel like I was making my life for myself.
[275] I was having so much fun.
[276] And then suddenly kind of out of nowhere in the summer of my second year got very well with something that affected my autonomic nervous system.
[277] And I was kind of fine with it to start with.
[278] I was like, well, they'll figure out what it is, they'll take me drugs, I'll take them, I'll be fine.
[279] And so I was kind of, yeah, the whole hospital process, everything, that was kind of okay.
[280] And then I was put on all these drugs and I just kind of really believe they would work and they just didn't really work.
[281] And kind of three months or so after starting different things, I was still not really able to do anything.
[282] And I was still kind of spending most of my time in bed on my own, watched all the Kardashians, all crazy anatomy, all kinds of trashy TV.
[283] and I just didn't I was really losing myself very very quickly and what I noticed was I as I said I'm quite an introverted person normally and I'm quite I can be quite embarrassed about stuff and quite kind of shy which is weird considering what I do but I was nervous to tell people what was happening and I didn't really understand the illness in itself and it's completely invisible you can't see it no kind of massive obvious symptoms of it in that sense and I told a couple of friends and you know they the response wasn't great in retrospect it probably wasn't delivered great by me but I just felt this real sense of isolation from everyone around me and a real lack of connection you know everyone else was really really worried about who snogged who last night who did this with who you know how drunk they were all the rest of it normal student concerns and thought patterns and then I was there being like I don't know if my body's strong enough today to walk down the street and back and I don't know because these drugs I'm working how I would ever be able to be confident to do that and that just created the real crisis of confidence in me and I just didn't know how to be with other people basically and I think that was one of the biggest problems of it and as a result again probably not the right decision but I just didn't really know what else to do I just completely cut myself off from everyone basically because I didn't really know how to communicate with everyone And I remember, like, as I started to get a little bit better, my boyfriend at the time, who was unbelievable throughout the whole process, he lived with four guys, who'd been good friends before they were amazing.
[284] And he was like, let's go sit with them in the living room.
[285] And I was kind of just petrified at the thought of going to sit in a room with other people because I thought they'd all look at me like, you're, she's so weird, what's wrong with her?
[286] And, you know, they were watching a movie.
[287] I just remember leaving the room, just crying because I just felt so uncomfortable in my skin with people.
[288] And it, you know, actually the physical health, to get that back on track, it took kind of two to three years.
[289] And I worked closely with my doctors and nutritionists and, you know, all the rest of it.
[290] And I, you know, did touch wood, managed to get that quite stable after two years.
[291] And then it took a kind of further two years to get into kind of what I would feel like is a good place.
[292] It took my mental health so much longer because I was already quite an insecure person and then suddenly to feel like you're such an alien and that like everyone else is doing something and they're normal.
[293] And you're not normal because you can't do that was a really.
[294] really, really challenging, challenging thing.
[295] And I know it's something that sticks with me today, and I always conscious of people think I'm boring.
[296] And the other day, my husband was making fun of me something and said boring.
[297] And I had this, like, complete panic.
[298] I was like, oh, my God, he thinks I'm boring.
[299] Everyone thinks I'm boring.
[300] And it's amazing how those kind of insecurities do really, really stick in you.
[301] And do you think, you know, you talked about that idea of, like, the perception that everybody else was, they were doing all these other things and they were being normal per se.
[302] say, do you think that social media...
[303] Oh my gosh, 100%.
[304] You don't know what I'm going to...
[305] I know exactly what you're going to say.
[306] I was going to say, do you think social media is contributing negatively to that, specifically things like Instagram where you just see that highlight real?
[307] So Instagram I wasn't on at this point.
[308] This was now, yeah, 2011, end of 2011 and beginning of 2012 and most of my friends weren't really on it at that point.
[309] So it was Facebook.
[310] Right.
[311] But I remember times where there were, you know, there were big parties in the year that I'd been to the previous two years and I knew everyone was so excited about.
[312] what are you going to wear, what are you going to wear?
[313] It was a big thing.
[314] And then I obviously couldn't go.
[315] And so I was just watching, yeah, more Kardashians or something in bed.
[316] Kardashians doesn't help either, right?
[317] No, I don't think it did.
[318] And I'll come onto that actually in a minute.
[319] But I would then refresh Facebook seeing pictures of them all looking really gorgeous and glamorous, like all dressed up, whereas like I hadn't put on makeup in a year and, you know, I hadn't washed my hair and, you know, I was a bit of a mess.
[320] In that sense, and I was like, God, you know, they look so amazing.
[321] they look so happy they're having that they're living their life and look at me I'm on my own I've got no friends I've got nothing going on the reality is if I ask the next day like actually how was it they're like oh well this person did this and this person I'm so annoyed with this person about this and then but you see this image which is of such perfection and you just compare yourself to it and you compare yourself really badly to it and I've always been kind of quite keen with my social media to be quite honest with it and say that a lot like it's a snapshot It's curated space.
[322] If people make you feel uncomfortable, go away from them, but don't also believe, like, it's fully real.
[323] It's not real.
[324] It's just my new insight into 24 hours.
[325] It's a kind of one second out of thousands.
[326] Because I made breakfast this morning, and then I went on your Instagram, and I just felt inferior.
[327] And also, like, no, no, but in tears, like, when I make breakfast for Instagram, it looks different from when I make it at home, which is just, like, into a ball.
[328] Totally.
[329] But what you're saying about the Kardashians about watching that didn't help.
[330] It's also an interesting point.
[331] and it's not necessarily about the Kardashians and such, but it was what was actually the most hard part and where the blog, starting the blog, was actually my complete savior, was that I massively lacked any sense of purpose in my life.
[332] Right.
[333] And that was, I think, one of the biggest contributors to feeling really low, because I just, it was so lost.
[334] My kind of sense of identity in who I was had changed overnight.
[335] And I just was so confused about my being, And it was really interesting because when I started the blog, in the grand spectrum of things, like, you know, trying a recipe, taking a picture, putting it online, it's, you know, for 24 hours in a day.
[336] It's not kind of a whole lot.
[337] But I felt like I was doing something.
[338] I felt like I could tick something off a list.
[339] I had achieved it.
[340] I created something.
[341] And suddenly when I was then seeing people's pictures on Facebook, I felt much less bad about it because I could be like, oh, well, I'll spend this time thinking about my next recipes and I could do this with this and I could do that with that.
[342] And being excited about that and feeling.
[343] like it's okay because I'm not there because I can do this and I want to do this and when I felt like I had nothing else to do and there was no sense of purpose that was when I felt my most low and I come back to that a lot and I think when we were saying earlier with the imposter syndrome it's when you're a little bit kind of confused in yourself about where you sit and it's really taught me that importance of kind of being comfortable in yourself because I think that's where the biggest insecurities and therefore issues often stem from And so what would you say to yourself in that moment if you could just go back and have one minute with yourself?
[344] What would you say to?
[345] Do you know what?
[346] And I'd hate myself for it.
[347] But I think it is.
[348] And I think I've learned it more and more is that like there are choices in life.
[349] And I wasn't making it any better.
[350] You know, like it was a crap situation.
[351] Like there's no getting around it.
[352] Like I was 20.
[353] I suddenly, yeah, like my heart rate was 190 whenever I stood.
[354] up.
[355] I was so dizzy.
[356] I felt like I was going to feign.
[357] I looked like I was nine months pregnant and I couldn't eat anything.
[358] My digestive system was so bad.
[359] I spent two and a half years on antibiotics, including antibiotic drips for chronic infections.
[360] Like I had really bad chronic fatigue, like I had loads of pain.
[361] I couldn't do anything.
[362] Like that's crap.
[363] There's no, I'm not trying to say it's not, but sitting in bed on your own, refusing to communicate with people watching TV on repeat and eating pick a mix isn't making it any better.
[364] and I think that's what I realized when I started trying to cook and just even though it took a while to help it felt like I was at least trying and I was trying to move in the right direction rather than kind of sitting there feeling sad about the situation but not doing anything to change it and I think that would be my biggest lesson and my biggest thing that I would say to myself is like just try and see if you can change it just a little bit even pick up the phone to someone be honest with them see if they'll come watch the movie with you you know and that would have made it a lot better that's amazing there's so many i feel like we're in a generation at the moment that are um it almost feels like mental health issues are more prevalent now than they ever have been before yeah and i'm not sure whether it's awareness has gone up surrounding these issues like anxiety and depression or whether it's because social media is causing it so i'm not sure if social media has increased awareness or social media has increased I feel like it's a combination of the two to be honest I think the thing with social media so I just think I do I genuinely think it's amazing in terms of inspiration ideas you can watch things like this you can connect with friends really easily you can you know like my siblings all used to live in different places in the world and like I could see what my sister was doing in America my brother in Switzerland and like that was really cool and I love that but at the same time like I do think you have to be conscious about the way that you use it and like if you are feeling down in yourself don't go look at Victoria's Secret models or things like that you know like it doesn't make you feel better and we do have constant access to things like that and so we do have constant tools for comparison and we all I think it's human nature to compare yourself but like if you're sitting next to someone you can compare yourself to them but you do know them so you know that like no human being is totally perfect and so they're brilliant at that but they're not as good as that and that's okay so we all have our strength some weaknesses and we can all be in this together but as soon as you start seeing a complete stranger and you see this snapshot on this highlight reel, you think, oh my God, they're perfect, I'm so rubbish in comparison.
[365] I think that's what we just...
[366] I feel like we need to be more honest about using it as a tool for ideas.
[367] You know, if you want to redo your bathroom, you can find more pictures of bathrooms than you can ever find before.
[368] And that's really cool.
[369] You can get ideas about ways you can do it.
[370] But if you're not feeling good about yourself, looking at things that other people are doing or having that you don't have on this, it's not going to make you feel better.
[371] So I think we just have to...
[372] It's like conscious consumerism, isn't it?
[373] It's just conscious kind of viewing and being aware of what...
[374] what's good for us and what's not.
[375] So you've done so much now.
[376] When I was reading through your buyer, I was like, how in such a short space of time, has this all happened?
[377] Such a psycho.
[378] What, I'm going to ask you two questions, and they're both kind of polar opposite.
[379] What do you worry about, and what are you most excited about when you think about the future?
[380] And this doesn't necessarily need to be within business.
[381] It can be, you know.
[382] I feel like my whole life is business.
[383] I guess, I think worry about in terms of business, and that's probably my biggest insecurity sometimes, sometimes it's like, you know, and you'll know this and lots of people feel the same.
[384] It's like, I think when you start something and you want it to be big and you're ambitious with it, the reality is you can't do that and do everything else.
[385] I met someone recently and it was really interesting and she started talking about how in life you don't, it's not about making sacrifices, but it's about making choices and you can't run a business with 60 people and, you know, scale it that quickly and have the most active social life.
[386] Like it just isn't really possible.
[387] And I think being conscious about that, but at the same time I think my worry, it's like you're putting so much into that, are you missing out on doing this and that and the next thing and experiences in life?
[388] You know, we cancelled five trips in 18 months because like work happens and you've got to be there and you've taken that responsibility on we're responsible for making sure these people are able to be paid at the every month and that they can look after their families and they can progress with their careers and I feel that responsibility really deeply.
[389] And so I think I worry about that sometimes that works become such a big part of my life that I just want to make sure at some point the tipping point comes back but that being said kind of in your second question it's what I'm most excited about right now like so rare in life to have such an exciting opportunity ahead of you and like you see it and there's just so many things we can do with creating the right things at the right time it's what people are looking for more and more people are interested in it and it's just phenomenally exciting and I think especially for someone they never had like massive hopes for themselves and like in terms of what I could achieve and suddenly seeing what you can achieve in front of you and like working towards that is it's about the most exciting thing ever and like our team's phenomenal getting to work with them and learn from them it's just unbelievable and you say we there that's yourself and your husband yeah as you know I've got some questions for you so basically a lot of people will know that what have watched me speak to various guests on the show because I tend to try and figure out this issue within myself you work with your partner yeah I at one point worked very very closely with my girlfriend and it didn't work out for various reasons I think the reasons why it didn't work out is because I am very, I'm really bad at compromise.
[390] I'm a little bit too obsessed with working.
[391] Yeah.
[392] To the, like, that balance is really ugly for me. Like, Saturdays and Sundays, I'm in the office and I want to be.
[393] And I often found it hard to relate to them.
[394] And in the context of a working environment where there's, you know, pressures and there's a lot of things to do, I would often forget the fact that there was that romantic element as well.
[395] How has it been for you?
[396] And how have you made it work so well?
[397] Completely relate to it.
[398] all of that.
[399] I think dividing like, as you say, kind of like a romantic time and work is, I think, nigh on impossible.
[400] But I think the reason why it has worked is because we're so different.
[401] We have very similar goals and ambitions, which I think is really important.
[402] But what we do and where our strengths lie, there's almost no overlap at all.
[403] Like he is the best people person I've ever met.
[404] He has the patience and emotional intelligence like I've never come across before.
[405] So he's amazing with our team.
[406] He's really motivating.
[407] He really looks after them.
[408] He makes sure everyone's, you know, on the career trajectory they want to be on, that they're listened to, they're supported, knows how to to deal with everyone individually.
[409] And he loves doing that.
[410] I hate people management.
[411] I'm not that good at it.
[412] I'm like, want to do this and this and this and I'm like running around.
[413] And so I'm not that calm in that sense and much more energetic.
[414] And he's absolutely amazing with that.
[415] He's got the most steady, clear head.
[416] He's brilliant at making difficult decisions and leading people through that.
[417] He loves an Excel spreadsheet.
[418] I don't even have Excel on my computer.
[419] So he can, you know, he loves getting deep into the numbers and doing the cash flow and the projections and the forecasting and like, that's my worst nightmare.
[420] And he's really good at it.
[421] And that was his experience before Deschatella.
[422] He'd worked in finance and in business development.
[423] And so he really enjoys that.
[424] I really enjoy being creative.
[425] And I love that I can now be fully and solely creative and trust him, along with our head of finance, head of operations, head of sales, etc. To do that more practical day -to -day part.
[426] Like, I'm not involved to that extent in the day -to -day running of the operations of our business, not at all.
[427] And so I get to do what I think I can help with and what I really enjoy, which is, yeah, all the creative side of things.
[428] How do you work with your partner and not just want to sometimes rip their head off?
[429] Yeah, that happens 100%.
[430] like every now and again and we always said like if we have big decisions to make we have to make it together and that's challenging it's an inevitable thing there right totally and also because the way you are at home like you have a really honest dialogue and suddenly you're in the office and you're like you're an idiot and then you're like you can't say that do you ever have those arguments in front of people no no so we made a complete pact we'll be completely united we don't have debates and discussions you know I really like that blue and I'm like I don't know about that blue I like that blue but if it's a big decision We'll talk about it on our own and then bring United Front to a meeting because I think I're always conscious that for people it must be weird in some capacity of working with a husband and wife team and so I wouldn't want to make anybody else feel uncomfortable by I was bringing it into the meeting room.
[431] Okay, good, cool.
[432] That answers a few of my questions.
[433] So my last question for you then, dinner party and I ask everybody this question.
[434] There's six seats at the table.
[435] I've been invited because it's...
[436] Of course.
[437] five for my game.
[438] You're there as well.
[439] So there's four other seats.
[440] You can invite anybody dead or alive.
[441] Yeah.
[442] I would like to know who you would invite and what they're going to eat.
[443] Okay.
[444] They'll have one main meal, so don't need to worry about starters and desserts and desserts and things.
[445] Okay, that's helpful.
[446] Cool.
[447] It's such a hard one, isn't it?
[448] Because you're so torn between different things.
[449] Like one part of me is like, I want to invite the spice girls.
[450] Although I've only got four seats, so I don't know who doesn't get the invite.
[451] Not invited a husband just yet.
[452] I know.
[453] I just want to fuck up.
[454] Your husband's outside.
[455] And then...
[456] Or do you want, like, your child's a crush.
[457] Like, I used to have the biggest crush on Marie K. Inglaseous.
[458] Like, do you want him there?
[459] You know, but then on, oh, like, a Dolly Parton or someone like that, he's just like, like, things, brilliant.
[460] Or do you want, like, it should be quite interesting and get, like, Trump in the room?
[461] Like, who doesn't want to ask him questions?
[462] And are you trying to create a dynamic as well amongst the guests?
[463] Exactly.
[464] Like, would it be weird to have, like, you know, like, scary spice and Donald Trump?
[465] and Enrique and Glazius at your table together.
[466] It might be an interesting, interesting time.
[467] So, yeah, we'll bring them all to the table.
[468] So you're going to go for, you're actually going to go for Donald Trump and Winkinglesias.
[469] Well, I think it would be an interesting dynamic.
[470] I know I'd like to meet them all.
[471] So we're going to go for scary spies.
[472] Yes.
[473] Why not?
[474] And Donald Trump and on weekend, Glazeus.
[475] And as the fourth person, I think I'd love to meet, like, a Queen Victoria.
[476] I do love, like, all that.
[477] kind of historical fiction.
[478] Yeah, well, you've got the other testes.
[479] I don't know how you bring everyone together, like what Queen Victoria has in common with scatry spice.
[480] But I think it'd be really interesting.
[481] What are they eating then?
[482] Indian.
[483] Indian food.
[484] So again, I don't know how well that goes.
[485] But it's my favourite.
[486] I love Indian food.
[487] Do amazing vegetarian food.
[488] And I love that you get little bits of different things.
[489] So I'd have, like, loads of different curries and, I think, chana masala and al -a -gobi, loads of garlicy nars.
[490] And I think it would be very interesting.
[491] We'd have to film out, obviously.
[492] I'm so excited.
[493] I can't wait.
[494] Thank you so much for your time today.
[495] I know how busy you are.
[496] You're an incredibly inspiring person and you're like a ray of sunshine to be around as well.
[497] Oh, thank you.
[498] You'll be linked everywhere and you'll be it on our lovely community as well.
[499] So thank you so much.
[500] No, thank you guys.
[501] To watch your journey unfold as it continues.
[502] Thank you so much.
[503] Oh, my pleasure.
[504] Nice to meet you and thank you for everything.
[505] It's so much fun.
[506] Thank you.