The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] No one signs a record deal and has a manager come up to and go, there's a good chance you're going to be really famous.
[1] Here's a pamphlet on how to not be a .
[2] Money and fame can show you who you are.
[3] And one of the things you said is the person I was when I was 27 was a fucking monster.
[4] When I became famous, I just went a bit off the rails with drugs and alcohol.
[5] I think there was just one weekend at Glastonbury where I just kind of disappeared for 48 hours.
[6] I was in an absolute state.
[7] What was the cost?
[8] Well, it's just not nice to see your parents cry, you know?
[9] I look back as it being one of the worst weeks ever And then I met Aaron Just watching someone grow a baby and give birth It's like one of the most sobering experiences ever You tragic had a miscarriage on your second I remember I was invited on to Lorraine And I was meant to go on and talk about a single on a tour Just before I went on, they went We just found out you lost the second baby Do you want to make the whole interview about that I got so many messages from guys after It was just kind of that's amazing you went on and spoke about that I've realized those have been the first times I've spoken about things that I should have probably spoken about with friends or family a long time ago.
[10] If you were advising a younger Elliot, what would you say in terms of the components that make for a good life?
[11] I've often thought about this.
[12] So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is the diary of a CEO.
[13] I hope nobody's listening.
[14] But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
[15] One of the things I always try and do, again, because I tend to believe that we are all a product.
[16] of our, like, typically our significant childhood events, whatever they might be.
[17] When I look at your story, I was hazarding a guess as well.
[18] I was saying, well, this was obviously quite a key moment.
[19] This is the key moment.
[20] But in your own words, what were those catalyst key moments from your childhood that ultimately shaped you to become who you are today?
[21] Oh, wow.
[22] I think in terms of work ethic, it's definitely from my mum and dad.
[23] I was very aware as a kid, you know, even before as a teenager, how much time and effort my mum and dad put into.
[24] They're both working class, and they both came from very humble beginnings.
[25] But I think the main thing I was aware of is that my dad was always the way working as a kid.
[26] I was also aware that a lot of my friends' parents weren't together.
[27] You know, a lot of them were raised by just single moms.
[28] But then I also saw how much effort my mom put in.
[29] she didn't have a day job, but I could see how hard my mum worked, especially with my dad being away.
[30] So I think the work ethic thing has helped me a great deal in terms of where I've got to.
[31] Not so much anymore, but partly trying to impress them or, you know, feeling like I lived up to their standards, maybe in my early 20s, mid -20s.
[32] Apart from, you know, like my parents' influence as a kid, I think mainly, I'd say that, you know, the culture at school in terms of music culture.
[33] London, I grew up in Fulham.
[34] I went to school in Wonsworth.
[35] And even it was a really nice school in terms of it, it was a modern school, it was a technology college.
[36] I said the majority of kids I went to school with all lived on council estates.
[37] And I didn't, but I spent a lot of time down there.
[38] So I think that was really good in helping me not only understand the different cultures and therefore, as a result, where the music cultures came from.
[39] just like how other people live and how other people you know what people have to go through you know like some of my best friends their moms would have five jobs and they'd be living in two bedroom council flats with like seven siblings so I think that even though I didn't live that life it was quite opening to see that um did you enjoy school love school loved I love drama loves maths it was really good at maths but not very good at English which is weird because I've used the English language.
[40] I manipulate the English language for financial gain, really.
[41] But, yeah, I wasn't very good at English and wasn't very good at science because I weren't interested in them.
[42] I wasn't really interested in religious studies because I always found there was occasionally to the different, you know, religions, whether it's Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, would be like little squabbles in the playground.
[43] So I kind of didn't like that religion could segregate people.
[44] So, but everything else that was interested in, geography, mass, drama, art. music I excelled that and loved because you know I loved going to school my mom was always like you were an absolute nerd that's when it comes to school you like you couldn't wait to get there and you couldn't wait to tell me about everything you'd learned that day and you couldn't wait to get there the next day and when it was coming to the end of school holidays you couldn't wait to get back to school so I think I enjoyed structure and I enjoyed either the attention from being a class clown at playtime because I wasn't very good at sport I was good at running in a straight line swimming in the straight line, but I wasn't good at team sports.
[45] So I think I really felt like that school was good for not only my brain, which was always a bit hyperactive, but also I got this outlet of doing, making people laugh by doing impressions.
[46] Why did you care about that, making people laugh?
[47] Because I just think, I felt like, I don't know, I've always enjoyed being an attention seeker.
[48] My mum said that when I was a, you know, very young, like five, six years.
[49] years old.
[50] She felt like I was a misbehaving a lot at school and she made a decision to put me on stage in the local drama group.
[51] I definitely think my mum spotted something in me which was like this kid needs to perform and he needs attention and that's his outlet and that sort of levels him out of it.
[52] I'm surprised to hear that you were so keen to get back to school because I also read that you were at some point bullied by the other kids.
[53] Yeah, I was but I think because my mom and dad did such a good job and sort of i don't i can't i can't even remember any specific lessons but i just know that my mom always made me feel loved and uh understood you know so if i was if i'd go home and just be like yeah they took the piss out of my teeth again today or they took piss out of my ears again today or whatever she'd just be like son we are all built differently like we all you know she'd be like your dad -dad funny is when I met him and he's the most beautiful man in the world just like I'm concerned you know just little lessons like that so I just think there was so much love at home that whatever hit me on the outside world whether that was down the local park you know little kids in gangs or at school I just felt like I was mentally prepared for it and then I think that kind of helped it gives you quite thick skin in terms of when it comes to you get into the music business it's like you have to deal with so much um disappointment like when i think that i've been doing this i'd say you know i got my first record doing 2006 but i was releasing music in 2004 um i've played over a thousand gigs you know like most of my peer group have disappeared now um from say 2010 2011 when i think of like my peer group from around then like chasing status and sub focus is still going um but most of the other artists that i came up with of kind of disappeared or semi -retired or kind of just sort of like doing anything on the peripheral now whereas I'm still very much my focus is like I'm only competing myself I used to worry so much about competing with them you know and you got a diagnosis at a fairly young age for having a spurges yeah well yeah but I've been I my mum was quite good and I think she I think whether it was I don't I can't remember because I was so young, but it would have either been from her friends, you know, other mum's down the park going, Elliot's a bit, you know, on the spectrum.
[54] And, you know, what's up with him?
[55] Because I was such a, I suppose, like, hyperactive kid.
[56] And I sort of seemed to flip between different personalities all the time.
[57] But I also had these weird, you know, weird sort of like nervous twitches.
[58] And I would, but I had a photographic memory for like, even at a young age i'll be like just look at a list of i know like the american states and just memorize them very like within two or three reads or i'd get the trivial pursuit box out and memorize every single question in a box of tribal pursuit just so when we came to play with like neighbors or friends or family at a barbecue i knew the answer to everything i think my dad then clocked that i'd memorize them all but instead of telling everyone that i'd memorize them all he was like yeah my son's really really sharp he's really well you know um Things like that, you know.
[59] How does that sit with you now, that diagnosis?
[60] And do you still...
[61] Well, I just think there's no way of knowing who, what anyone is.
[62] I think everyone can be a little bit of...
[63] Everything.
[64] Everything.
[65] It's not clear cut to just go, this person is this diagnosis based on, you know, research by doctors and scientists and other patients.
[66] It's very hard because I think every human being has a little bit of something.
[67] And you can't just say someone is 100 % definitely got this.
[68] you know, that thing.
[69] So I prefer, I can see some things in my eldest already where he shows certain similarities to me as a kid.
[70] But then Erin says, no, I used to do that as a kid as well.
[71] And she's a bit mad like me as well.
[72] But I think weird is good.
[73] I definitely think weird is good and I think it's special.
[74] And I think my mum spotted that.
[75] So I'm kind of glad that I was never put into any special programs or put into a special school or extracurricular activities or even on light medication.
[76] I'm quite thankful for that, because I've got friends my age who've been on meds since they were kids and are still on some form now, you know, and they think they're bipolar or aspergic or ADHD.
[77] And I'm like, there's actually a really close friend of mine who I actually encouraged him to maybe have like six months off.
[78] And he's better for it now, and he doesn't take the meds anymore.
[79] He's like, you know, he's better at dealing with.
[80] with his, let's say, his demons and his, you know, these thoughts maybe used to haunt him and scare him, he's, he's stopped taking the meds and he doesn't take him, he's back for it.
[81] Have you ever had any of those demons, especially at a young age, that you used to contend with?
[82] I think the main thing, and I still contend with it now, is sometimes I just have so many thoughts.
[83] I'm not like a warrior I've never been a warrior because I've always known how to compartmental stuff and I'm really good with admin I'm really good at multitasking but it's kind of been a gift and a curse like it's either been having a whole say film script or scenario in my head going round and round that I can't seem to switch off and that might be whilst I'm in a meeting I'm not doing it now It might be, you know, like, when I say I'm multitasking, I'm like, I can sometimes be in the studio writing a song, but have a shopping list in my head that I just can't seem to get rid of, which is why yoga can be really good for me. And, like, you know, breathwork, like, Vim Hof style, that really levels me out.
[84] But, for instance, like, I, when I'm freestyling, you know, and I don't mean, like, pre -written raps that people go out and perform in a, Rap battle, I mean, just like freestining, like rhyming.
[85] Sometimes I'll be at the gym and I'll be there for 45 minutes and the whole time I'm there, I'm freestining in my head and it could be about what that person's wearing, what exercise that person's doing, what music's playing.
[86] And it's kind of gift and a curse because it's great for, you know, when you're producing songs, just words being able to just fall out, flow out, but also just like not being able to switch off sometimes.
[87] So I'll be in a room having a conversation with someone.
[88] and they're like, you're not listening, aren't you?
[89] And I'm like, I'm really sorry, but I've got...
[90] A shopping.
[91] A shopping.
[92] You're like, okay, what are you getting later?
[93] And I'm just there like, Swiss cheese, light Swiss cheese.
[94] I've just got a very overactive frame.
[95] You talked about failure a second ago.
[96] You said, you know, going into the music industry, you met with a lot of failure and ups and downs.
[97] After your first album, your first studio album, I was reading about your kind of your feelings and sentiments towards it.
[98] It sounded like you were going to quit.
[99] Yeah, I think you have to be prepared for disappointment in this industry, especially because I'm about to release my eighth album.
[100] And I don't really have any expectations for it other than whoever hears it, I hope, really enjoys it.
[101] I don't really know how many streams it's going to do.
[102] It's just you have to be quite robust in the sense that you may put so much time and effort into a song and radio one or capital turn around and don't playlist it or you make a song and think this is going to perform really well on Spotify because it should get on the workout playlist and or get on the UK house playlist and maybe this could do well in Germany and like not that I make music like that but once a song's finished you can't help but have expectations for it and then to think that you might have spent you know I might have written it in four or five hours but then spent six months perfecting the mix downs and adding instrumentation and so on or adding another vocalist or a feature to it and then to think that that might come out and someone's someone somewhere's like nah not actually into this when I was signed to ministry of sound there was so much pressure like you know constant meetings every week I wouldn't go to them because after a while they get too intense but it was like we're radio one a discussing this in playlists this week we're hopefully going to go on the C list next week and then two weeks later we're hopefully move up to the B list and then the aim is week of release, we're going to be on the A list, and we should be getting 11 to 15 spins a week, and, you know, hopefully we'll go straight in at iTunes with the pre -orders into the top turn, and we'll climb to number one, and MTV are fully behind this, and you're going to do a lifelance next week, and capital of just come on board with it.
[103] And it's all, you know, it's great when you're flying, you know, and obviously I was having number one singles and top tens, it's great, but you realize the pressure that artists are put under and managers, and then the pressure that the record labels are putting on themselves, you know to compete with you know because they've got to bring an X amount of revenue as you know if you're in marketing or ANR they're under pressure from your bosses and then the artists are under pressure from the label and then the managers are under pressure from what the artist expects and it's actually a losing formula money and fame they often say can show you who you are or it can bring out the best and worst in you and one of the things you said is the person I was when I was 27 was a fucking monster compared to the person I was when I was 21 yeah what did you mean by fucking monster i was just um obviously so i i hadn't tried uh class a drugs until i was 23 which is mad because most of my friends and peer group in music and i grew up with were it probably doing it at 14 um and then i just think when i became famous uh and came into money i just went a bit off the rails with drugs and alcohol but i was also in a relationship where I was lying to my girlfriend and cheating on her and I was just everywhere I was going girls were throwing themselves at me and people wanted to party with me and people were doing everything they could to try and keep me awake all night with them you know whether it was girls or bad influences other celebrities you know and then you get carried away because you're like oh my god I'm hanging out with such and such and such footballer and this model and this person and where we've got access to this bar and this club and we've walked straight into this restaurant and got a table so you just go off the rails a bit and i feel like everybody kind of needs to when you get to that stage every artist actor that i've spoken to whether they've chipped away it for years like i did or just had this sudden overnight fame i feel like you kind of need to get it out your system because it's kind of like it's not i'm not saying everyone has to but nearly everybody i know it's just like oh god how amazing is this feel like i'm getting free clothes and free trainers and i've just been giving a free car and i've just been giving a free car I'm getting upgraded on this flight, and I've got this table at this restaurant that I couldn't get before.
[104] I've been invited to this premiere.
[105] I was just on that television show with that Hollywood actor, and then I'm in this person's house, you know, this person's giving me free drugs, and this girl wants to sleep with me, and these girls want a frees them, and then all this shit.
[106] So, like, why would you not take it?
[107] Because you get to do something that, you know, it's like a one in a million thing.
[108] No one else gets to do this.
[109] And you don't go, I need to do this because no one else gets to do it.
[110] you're just like, this is fun.
[111] This is mad.
[112] Like, my life's mad right now.
[113] And I just defy anyone to not do the same.
[114] I mean, I think, you know, sometimes, like, top -level athletes, because they have to, their focus is being an athlete.
[115] So it's all about the body and their fitness.
[116] They can't do drugs and alcohol in the same way.
[117] So I think for a lot, that's why a lot of footballers just end up like, I'm going to have 15 cars or I'm going to get gambling addiction.
[118] because everyone needs some kind of vice I guess I mean all human beings need some kind of vice anyway I think I think that's how we're built we're not meant to just live squeaky clean like constantly like I think life's boring like and it doesn't have to be sex or drugs and alcohol but someone you need something you need something to obsess over that feels a little bit like naughty a little bit edgy what was the cost because I mean all that sounds great but there's got to be everything in life has a cost.
[119] Well, the cost was that I, you know, I broke a lovely girl's heart and, you know, it took her a while to deal with that, I'm sure, afterwards.
[120] And, you know, I probably upset quite a few people along the way.
[121] I know my parents weren't proud of me, even though I was doing really well career -wise.
[122] There was like a moment where there was a bit of an intervention.
[123] You know, it was almost like, what have you become?
[124] You know, we're not proud of you.
[125] This is not cool.
[126] What caused that?
[127] I think there was just one weekend at Glastonbury where I just kind of went down with my band and crew and my girlfriend and my sister and I just kind of just completely went off the radar and kind of disappeared for 48 hours.
[128] And then everyone was like, where is he?
[129] And obviously, Glastonbury's a crazy place to get lost in anyway.
[130] And then I just turned up 15 minutes before I went on stage.
[131] So I was still professional.
[132] But I was like, I was in an absolute state around like 2012, no, 2010 to 2012, well, it wasn't great.
[133] When your family stage an intervention, what does that look like in like real terms?
[134] Is that like a phone call or is that?
[135] Well, no, it's like sort of catching me off guard and sitting me down in a room, you know, and showing me how disappointed they are.
[136] And how did you take that?
[137] Well, it's just not nice to see your parents cry, you know.
[138] It's quite, you know, it still took me a few years after that to get my act together.
[139] but yeah i just i don't i don't feel like there's any real shaming it looking back like i'm not i'm not saying i'm proud of it but i just feel like certain mistakes had to be made it's like in the same way i don't really have any regrets about anything i'm just like everything i've done in life however bad it is wherever i've hurt or whatever i've learned from it and i've tried to make a mensure it you know did is there in hindsight information that you didn't have that caused you to choose that path like is there something you you now you know that is stopping you from repeating that cycle and just continuing to do that.
[140] Well, it's just like, I mean, like, my mum always said, as a kid, she was like, I was, I was a liar as a kid.
[141] But she said, they were like, not really lies that really hurt anyone.
[142] She said, I just knew that you had this overly creative brain and this imagination.
[143] So you would just take situations and just exaggerate them.
[144] And she was like, and it kind of makes sense that you're a songwriter and you're a storyteller.
[145] And I get that.
[146] And looking back now, you never, there were certain times where I know it would really upset my parents and my mum in particular because she was spending more time with me probably day to day.
[147] You know, that turned like little white lies about scenarios that had happened just because I sort of enjoyed the fact maybe that I would attention seeking could manipulate a situation that I could take a situation and my imagination run wild with it and create other scenarios.
[148] And I think that was a, it's something that I don't do at all anymore.
[149] but like lying as a kids and then carrying that through i didn't then obviously realize at school you can't get away with certain things because you know there's structure and there's teachers so it probably calm me down a bit then and then i'd had like four serious girlfriends and i'd never once cheated on them because it just wasn't on my radar wasn't the way i've been brought up but it was just like i guess and i've spoken to other people guys about this and girls It's just like you have that first time you do it, feel bad, and then one becomes two, and then two becomes five, and five becomes ten, and then it just kind of spirals out of control, and you kind of just like numb your brain to it.
[150] And I just don't think, there's no, no one signs a record deal or gets into the music industry and has a record label or a manager come up and go, by the way, there's a good chance you're going to be really successful and famous in the next year or two years.
[151] So read this book.
[152] Here's a pamphlet on how to not be a CUNT.
[153] people often say that if you are a late late to lose your virginity you when you get into your adulthood you kind of make up for lost time well that was me so all my friends were losing a virginia at 13 and 14 and I was 17 and a half so I was probably one the last at my school maybe it's just a part of South London I grew up in but yeah so I used to hear stories from other other guys at school about some of the stuff they were doing at 14 and that was just like absolutely mind blown.
[154] But I definitely feel that because I was a late bloomer, then by the time I was in my early to late 20s, I just went crazy with it because you're almost doing it for your younger self, you know?
[155] Yeah, yeah.
[156] That was what I suspected, because I was reading through and I remember thinking, yeah, if you're a bit of a late bloomer and then you get it full on, you know, early 20s because you become this star and it's thrown at you.
[157] It's almost like the forbidden Exactly, because like some guys at school are like, you know, the guys who develop a bit faster than the other guys, you know, they've got biceps and six packs at 13, 14, and they're exceptional at football, regardless of what their academics are like, or they're the fastest sprinter and then they're really good looking.
[158] And then I went to school with guys who slept with like 15 girls while the time they were 16.
[159] So chances are they get to the mid to the late 20s and they're not like, oh, I need to just go out there and go crazy because they were already done it.
[160] Whereas not only did I, I didn't feel like I needed to go.
[161] crazy but given the opportunity and you're presented with like you can i'm like a kid in a sweet shop you know exactly and then like really you're just like yeah this isn't me you know it just becomes a bit boring and mundane after a while was there a point where you you you felt that where you thought i'm doing all this but i hate myself was that 2000 yeah and then luckily i just and then i met erin what was so but specifically so was there was there days where you were waking up thinking what the fuck is my life yeah like it also it's like you come a stage at a gig at 11 p .m in Manchester I remember there's this one week we was just like I look back as it being one of the worst weeks ever where um I was just splitting up properly with my ex who I cheated on a lot you know moving out from hers I was pretty lonely because I was living with my step granddad in like an ex -council house in fullum and he was like 93 and the whole house was like smelled quite bad and it was falling apart i mean it's blessing he was in great shape and for 93 and but obviously the house wasn't the cleanest nicest place you could live i didn't really have much cash even though i was starting to become quite famous and successful it was like the money tends to come six months later you know you have a number one single or kickstarts of number three in the charts your festival fees will go up tenfold but probably not until the following summer and so I'm still living with him so it's quite I was quite embarrassed to being friends or even girls back to this place um so I just moved finally moved out from what my ex which has had to happen it was a long time coming and then I was like I was did a gig in Manchester came of stage at 11 and then I had to be up at 4 .30m the next day to shoot a music video because we had to catch a sunrise.
[162] And I was like, why can't we do sunset and pretend it's sunrise, you know, so I can actually go home and have a sleep.
[163] They were like, oh, the director can't work that late or something.
[164] And I remember looking at, when I look, I've never watched the music video since.
[165] It's a video called Two Lives.
[166] And the lyric is actually called, it's like Two Lives, I live in Two Lives, don't know which side of me is where the truth lies.
[167] That's the chorus.
[168] So it was like a poignant moment, recording a music video for a song on about Three House Sleep.
[169] I looked awful in the video, huge bags on my eyes and then went back from the video shoot to this house where my step -granddad was and just sort of sat in bed feeling quite lonely and then the next day doing like a magazine cover shoot and then going straight to radio one to record a live lounge and then going out for dinner that night for you know like for a PR press junket or something and then the next day was like another TV show and another radio show and then I called this girl to come around just because I literally just wanted a cuddle you know and then was up there to like 4 a .m and then up at 8 am and then sat in a taxi for like an hour and a half to go across to like hat me whole time just being like I remember just getting to the end of the week just going like I can't do this I can't do this like and I remember saying to my manager I was just like we need to start can't canceling these TV and radio and it was just like you know he's like you can't cancel going on Graham Norton you know you can't cancel going on, maybe cancel, no offence, probably cancelled going on Sunday brunch.
[170] Sorry, Sunday brunch.
[171] But, you just got banned for Sunday.
[172] Yeah, and then you're almost like, when's my next day off?
[173] In eight days, you know, stuff like that.
[174] It was like, what we got this weekend again?
[175] Because I, you know, by this point, wouldn't look at the diary because it would scare me. It was like, well, you've got, Ibitha Rocks Friday, and then you've got global gatherings, Saturday.
[176] And then you've got something in, Finland on Sunday and then I was like oh I've got Monday off no no no we're you got my yorka and then you've got Ibitha again Tuesday and then you get into each thing and you're just so completely knackered I fucked that you're just like okay I'll have a drink you know drinking on the plane drinking we get there and then you can't remember the gigs I remember like you look at the photos and the videos and like the crowd were having an amazing time thank God that I can do this even when I'm at my lowest, when I've got no energy left, when I've had six, seven drinks.
[177] But I look back in that, and that was one of the worst weeks ever.
[178] And then I think it was maybe like June, 2011.
[179] Album came out, I know, July, and then I went to Australia in October that year to do my first ever Australian tour, and that's when I met Aaron.
[180] When you're like sort of self -medicating to kind of deal with the pace of life or whatever, it tends to be the case.
[181] I mean, just from sitting here speaking to musicians, that you're not far, especially when you like, you use the word lonely, like a lack of connection, you're not far away there from mental health issues, like anxiety and depression and those kinds of things, typically, when you find yourself without connection in your life, self -medicating, stressed by just looking at the thought of this hectic schedule, a lack of sleep, I can't imagine the diet was phenomenal.
[182] No, it wasn't.
[183] I mean, like, I've always been into fitness and running, And I would like, even when I was really, really knackered, like I've got my apartment still in Fulham right next to Craven Cottage.
[184] And it's actually that, that was a big help because that whole period is just like waking up every day.
[185] The river gave me so much calm, like.
[186] Were you anxious?
[187] Yeah, but you just get up and sit on the balcony and I'll make fried eggs on toast or whatever, beans on toast and just look across the river.
[188] And I live on the part of the river where there's no buildings opposite.
[189] It's like the barn's wetland centre.
[190] So you feel like you're in the countryside.
[191] So that's a great escapism straight away from London in general.
[192] So I feel like when I bought that, you know, subconsciously I was probably thinking about this peace and tranquility escape from whenever I'm home.
[193] I close the door to my apartment and I've got the river there.
[194] But it was, I think I was quite smart and whenever I could, I would go for a swim or I'd go for a run because I remember my dad used to say to me when he was, so when my mum was pregnant with me, my dad was working.
[195] as I said two hours up in Birmingham driving four hours a day because it was the only job he could get at the time he was working for computer services company Nickstorf Siemens group and he had alopecia as well from stress his dad was dying he was pregnant with my mum and he was training for the marathon and I think that you know stress related alopecia is quite clear why he lost his hair given everything the aforementioned things and but I think running is what saved him from a very young age like that time alone and like whenever I go for a run to this day I don't listen to music I I that most people go for to listen to music for fitness whatever that is my brain escapism and it's either swimming yoga or running it's the only time when I cannot think about anything else and whenever I was anxious or stressed about things those are the things that saved me I actually think that living by the river and even if I did it twice a week during those stressful times just being able to get up and just go for a four -mile jog I don't know where my head would have been like if I hadn't had got that like I'd been out to go out and do that and run specifically by the river not through a city with traffic lights and cars like on straight onto the tow path over Hammersmith Bridge along the river by fields over Putney Ridge back through Bishop's Park pretty much the area I grew up in and then also I got to the stage where I was like I was calling girls up to come over and it was like who's going to give the best cuddle and who's going to stroke me to sleep like that's where again not didn't really make a conscious decision but looking back now would be like I don't just want to have like meaningless sex I just want to actually be held you know bear in mind my mum dad and sister lived on the other side of the world by this point they'd move to Australia you know didn't have a girlfriend like I had my mates you know in my band who would in a way travelling with a band so I travel with a DJ now but back then I travelled drums guitar base and then five with six crew it was kind of like a little family on the road so that was probably better than if i'd been with just a DJ that would have been quite lonely um but yeah i kind of feel like my there was an intelligent emotionally intelligent part of me i wasn't actually in tune with was inviting girls over who were going to give me the best cuddle and stroke me to sleep so i just felt you know from that sort of fetal position and felt loved or felt safe you know what i mean did did you know you were lonely like in the at the time no i didn't at all that's what i'm saying But in hindsight, yeah, there's so many things about that whole period where I was so ambitious and I was so resilient.
[196] And I was also, despite what I was putting into my body, all things considered pretty healthy or I certainly had endurance in terms of what I was capable of, mental endurance and physical endurance.
[197] So, yeah, sorry, I wasn't healthy.
[198] I mean, I was, I just had endurance and I had stamina.
[199] And that was probably from, you know, starting.
[200] the whole drugs and alcohol thing way later than most other people you know like say 23 24 had I started that at 18 like most of my friends probably would have burnt out way sooner but I was in you know when I wasn't on tour and I wasn't doing promotions I was at a gym nearly every day and I'd go to the gym and then for a run so I was in pretty good shape to be able to do with these things and also performing for 90 minutes on stage can be like playing a football match and you know sometimes you're playing five football matches a week and I would always have a good physio after I got back you know so every three or four days I'd have a full body massage needles um cupping so on just to and then I would whenever I could I would spend a whole day two three days I know it doesn't sound that much but just complete detox what what was it that made you go from being someone who was dishonest in your relationships and would would cheat on your partner to being honest and committed Was there a catalyst event?
[201] Was it Erin?
[202] I just think when I met Erin, we just sort of fell so head over in hills with each other.
[203] We didn't pretty much the first night.
[204] And then she dropped me off at the airport, and she was almost a bit tearful.
[205] She was like, I don't think I'm ever going to see you again.
[206] I bet you've got a girlfriend in every city.
[207] I was like, not at all.
[208] No, I've got a few.
[209] No, I was like, I've got a few in London.
[210] But no, I was like, you think too highly of me. I haven't got a girlfriend every city.
[211] And then she called her mom, and her mom was like, go off and every city she was like no no she goes honestly i think we're going to get married after we spent a night together um but that was my sort of moment i was just like reset go back to who you've always known you were what meant to be you know be the person that your mom and dad raised which is to be honest and faithful and you were honest with her from the jump we basically it was weird because we got to know each other a lot of a face time and then she'd come to London for two weeks and go back to Sydney and then I'd go to Australia maybe for a week and then we'd speak on the phone for three weeks and then she'd come to London again for maybe a month and then I'd go spend Christmas in Australia do some festivals but also see my mum and dad and my sister and spend time I lived with her in Bondi but because that time becomes so precious you tell each other absolutely everything so I think we'd been together six months and we knew everything about each other in terms of exes worst fears you know biggest achievements biggest wants desires everything sexually all the partners we've been with like you just it was almost like speed dating crash course of like you know when you when people were together generally they'll be intimate with each other or they'll just laugh and giggle and go out for dinner you meet each other's friends and so on when you're chatting over FaceTime it tends to be more like an interview you know so you ends up oversharing What has Aaron taught you about love?
[212] There'll be a lot of people that are listening to your story and they'll think maybe I'm in the reckless phase where I'm sampling all the forbidden fruit and then it seems quite clear from your story that you met this person and as you said you kind of both changed each other but what advice can you impart on someone who's in that reckless phase?
[213] And I think if people in a reckless phase you're like, I need to do this now and I don't know how long you're going to do that for but people, if you're smart, you can work it out.
[214] I've got guys I know now who are like they that because you know they they work in high intensity high pressured worlds of like finance and hedge funds and I know a lot of guys who want to settle down but also on the side want to continue having these other experiences of women and I think they feel that they have a right to do that now I'm not sure if that's because of the mentality of a lot of people that are work in that world with.
[215] You know, like it's a boys club sort of thing.
[216] And that's, that's, you know, that's just how it is.
[217] I feel like some of them, you know, like there's a lot of guys who are like seem to be happily married with kids, my age, a bit older, and seem to have all these other girlfriends and flings and bits on the side.
[218] If you'd met Aaron at another phase in your life, though, do you think it would have worked out?
[219] No, I met, we met at the perfect time.
[220] That's what did you get at.
[221] with someone.
[222] Like timing is a key factor.
[223] Yeah, she'd been single for maybe seven weeks and I'd been single for maybe three months.
[224] If you'd met her at, say, 20, I don't know, five.
[225] I don't think so.
[226] If I'd been met it two or three years earlier, wouldn't have worked.
[227] We met her exactly, right?
[228] It was almost like the stars aligned.
[229] The universe decided that we were going to collide at that moment.
[230] You mentioned she was a Gemini and then you just mentioned the universe decided, are you at all spiritual?
[231] I wasn't.
[232] And I am now.
[233] Did you have a role to play in that?
[234] Yeah, I guess so, because, you know, I used to just think I was in control of everything.
[235] And I know I was one of these people, I was like, I don't believe in luck, you make your own luck, because I was kind of what my dad would instill in me. And I've never been religious, and I never used to believe in zodiacs.
[236] But then I did used to believe, you know, after I'd read some Stephen Hawking stuff.
[237] And then you start reading books on lateral thinking and the laws of attraction and so on.
[238] You sort of go, oh, actually, yeah, we are just atoms just bouncing off one another.
[239] It's just like, because we've got brains and we can make our own decisions, but that doesn't still mean that we aren't in control of the energy around us and the energy around other people and how we collide and then what things come out of that.
[240] So as soon as I got my head around that, and then Erin started explaining the zodiac and when you were born and what time of day you were born and, you know, the distance between planets and so on and what moon it was that day i used i guess i didn't have the patience for it before and then like she's like explaining you go actually yeah and that's why some people have certain traits and so on i'm not like i'm more into like spirituality since um you know i'd start doing yoga for instance and meditation you know like two or three times a week we'll do a sauna and ice bath put the kids to bed we do like 10 minutes sauna two minutes ice 10 minutes sauna two minutes ice and then you just come out just feel like you know you feel so alive um and then the moment you kind of have kids and you're like oh my god this is these other human beings that we made you do get in touch a lot more with your your spiritual side i think because you're just like you know you could like science and spirituality can go side by side i think you know i think that the spiritual awareness of oneself actually comes from having a great understanding of science and and the way the universe works in general.
[241] What impact has that had on your life, yoga, breath work and all that stuff?
[242] I think the breath work's been incredible.
[243] So if it doesn't involve like ice or meditation even, I listen to, there's a guy I know back in Brisbane, he's got something called The Breath Collective, and he gets people in like groups of 20 around to his house, clears out of the sofa out the way and the TV and they all sit on the floor on the backs with eyes closed.
[244] And it's like, it's that Rimhoff style of, you know, like, short breath out like deep breath in short breath out and then holding your breath you know in that moment and you feel all the physical changes in your body like I'll do it a couple of nights a week I did it last night because I wanted to have a good night's sleep there's a lot of stuff going on my head but like it's hard if you had tried to sell that to a younger me I would have been like you're having a fucking laugh mate you want me to spend 10 minutes of my day breathing in and out in silence because I just didn't understand how to relax and how to be at peace with myself and how to actually deal with my inner thoughts and inner demons you know how much credit does erin deserve for this um a huge amount really she's um just watching someone grow a baby and give birth and then breastfeed them for a year it's like one of the most sobering experiences ever you know it's like I just blows your mind like I just think the moment like I just think the moment the rush of adrenaline and dolphins whatever that I got when she gave birth to our first standing up standing up yeah she'd been training a whole way through her pregnancy as well like she found a form of her pregnancy hit training which had been approved by her midwife and her GP obviously not crazy jumping around but you know squats and lunges and so on and push -ups, obviously not much have work.
[245] But she's reading lots of research saying, you know, the healthier the mother is, you know, it's like if you eat nuts during pregnancy, child has no chance of having a nut allergy.
[246] But if the mother eats enough nuts during it, likewise if she gets her heart rate up to a safe level, that baby would be born with a less likely to have a heart condition.
[247] And there's other research shows that if the mother does an X amount of training, throughout you know it's even goes back to say the hunter -gatherer sort of period where a female might have to be on the move constantly or on the run whilst holding a baby and what that instills in the baby's genetic makeup when they're born like you know zit is I'd have to find the research papers but there's stuff that she was reading about your baby have zero chance of asthma if you do X amount of exercise whilst you're growing that baby and it can all be passed on like the science behind it's mental it's like when a like your baby has a way higher chance of starting life with a better immune system just from breastfeeding alone if you have mother can breastfeed because the baby saliva passes information to the nipple and then the nipple tells the mother what to put more of into the milk so it would be like if the baby's lacking in iron or zinc or certain vitamins it's saliva from the baby's mouth will tell that to the nipple and then the mother will produce milk with more zinc more magnesium more vitamin d to to give the baby so which is why a lot of babies have better immune systems when they're breastfed and not bottle fed so just you know on formula so crazy stuff like that but then yeah just seeing my wife like she had no gas no epidural no no assistance no you know drugs as it were to help her through pain relief and she gave birth standing up and like the midwife was like catch your baby who who called it you called it no she did and then i was and then she just sort of collapsed into my legs and we just sat there and then didn't even look at see if it was a boy or a girl for like the first 10 minutes we were just so in awe it was like this whole it's the most alive i've ever felt it's mental and like because apparently the um the tailbone actually blocks the baby's head from coming out so human beings women should give birth on all fours or standing up they're not meant to give birth on their backs because where the tailburn goes under, the baby's head's trunk.
[248] Oh, right, yeah, yeah.
[249] Women should be standing up, so that tailburn's, like, disengaged, and the baby can basically just fall straight out.
[250] Mad, right?
[251] Yeah, crazy.
[252] I bet you weren't expecting this today.
[253] No, I wasn't, but there you go.
[254] Every day's a school day.
[255] So you give both your first, and one of the things that I read about was you tragically had a miscarriage on your second.
[256] Yeah, the second one, I think we got so, I want to say cocky, so, we're so excited, and the first one seemed to go so well.
[257] everything from when she found out she was pregnant to giving birth that you're not meant to tell people that early on but then she found out she was pregnant with the second one that we lost it was only been five weeks and really you meant to wait quite a bit longer and have your first scan and so on we went around and told everyone and then she lost it a few weeks later just before you know like the safe date so that was pretty pretty tough I remember I was invited onto Lorraine Kelly show and I was meant to go on and talk talk about a single on a tour and then they kind of blindsided me and it was just before I went on they went we just found out he lost the second baby do you want to make the whole interview about that and I was like for what reason they were just like because we've never had a guy come on here and talk about it before it's definitely not like a celebrity and I was like okay cool so the whole interview became about that and it was actually it was quite positive because I got so many messages from guys after it's just going that's amazing you went on and spoke about that because guys are just like, woman's just lost a baby.
[258] Guys have just got to get on with it and deal with it by themselves, just do everything they can to support the mother.
[259] What was it like for you?
[260] Well, it's really tough because you just don't know how to, you're like, oh my God, this is actually something that was living inside of her that has now died and I've just got to be there for her and I'm just going to have to suck it up and get on with it because no one ever really asked the dad.
[261] How are you feeling?
[262] How are you feeling?
[263] It's not really in our society.
[264] It's not normal.
[265] everyone just goes oh my god how is she how are you feeling it's like just helpless really it's awful but yeah erin's my dad was great and my dad was great as well in terms of uh you know how do you feel how do you think you should feel how do you want to feel how do you what do you think you need to do to get through this especially when you've already got a baby and then you're just like how beautiful that whole experience was and you're like oh could have another one and then you start is this going to happen with the next one the next one yeah tough yeah men don't i mean all of the even like men aren't really even taught how to deal with how they're feeling themselves right no i i've actually you know doing stuff like this and doing interviews with either magazines or television shows i've realized there's been sometimes it's been the first times i've spoken about things that i should have probably spoken about with friends or family a long time ago you know because we're just you're Like, it's either the whole macho thing of, you don't talk about that, you know, just get on with it.
[266] Like, that's a woman's thing.
[267] You know, women discuss things like that.
[268] I'm not even talking about miscarriages.
[269] I'm talking about relationships or, you know.
[270] When you look forward at your future then, so you've got this eighth studio album coming out, what do you want the next five, ten years to look like in terms of your career?
[271] I would love to accidentally somehow have a chart hit again, just to remember.
[272] remember what it feels like you know interesting yeah it's not key to me but it'll be amazing to have like a number one album or a top 10 single you know it'll probably be based on streams rather than sales in this day and age but you know some some just because I want to remember how it feels you've forgotten yeah forgotten what kind of feels like it's 10 years ago you know I had I'd like 22 top 40 singles um I think seven top 10s two number ones but I haven't anything for so long but I'm still going, like my tour sells out in a way that you would assume that I was still having hits, but then you realize that hits aren't that important.
[273] What's important for me is just making songs that go off when you perform life.
[274] So, you know, I did an hour on Saturday night.
[275] There were probably seven hits in there.
[276] The other nine songs weren't hits, but they still go off, like their hits.
[277] People, majority of the crowd know them word for words.
[278] The energy is there, you know, the build, the drop.
[279] I did the last.
[280] I did the last.
[281] sold out tour in the UK of any artist before COVID which was March 2020 I played Kentish Town Forum sold out March the 7th I was back in Australia by 9th I think 10 days late we went into lockdown in Brisbane and the rest of the UK and the world followed pretty much like April that year so I played the last ever tour and then I played the first festival anywhere in the world after COVID.
[282] I mean, COVID was still, everyone was in lockdown in England, America, so on.
[283] I played up in Darwin in the Northern Territory in Australia.
[284] I played 5 ,000 people.
[285] They'd had 23 COVID cases.
[286] So as long as you go out, they have a negative test.
[287] So I was at a festival in October, October 2021.
[288] No, October 2020.
[289] Playing a gang of Darwin, 5 ,000 people.
[290] And then I came back in just in my January -February tour.
[291] So I had won the first sold -out.
[292] to us after COVID.
[293] So I feel like live music and my performance is like my bread and butter.
[294] It's what I know best.
[295] That's what I do best.
[296] But it would be really nice to, you know, taste a little bit of success again with a song that may be like...
[297] Because I'm still in a situation where I've got 40 gigs this summer.
[298] Anyone who follows me on Instagram is like, wow, amazing.
[299] You're having the best year forever.
[300] But I still bump into people all in the street And it's like a taxi driver on the way here today.
[301] It's like, you're like, you know, what's you been doing?
[302] You don't release new music for years.
[303] I was like, well, release an album in June and I did release another album last year.
[304] How does that feel?
[305] It's quite, it just makes you just go to show you that there's, there's some people think if you're not on Jonathan Ross or Graham Norton or on Capital FM or on Radio 1 and you're not playing Radio 1's big weekend or doing Capital Summertime Ball, then you've retired.
[306] And then there's another bunch of people who hear you in the clubs or listen to you on Spotify playlist and have no idea even what radio one or capital FM is.
[307] And then there's your diehards who follow you and know every move you're doing from your Instagram.
[308] But, you know, I don't tweet that much anymore because it's become quite a toxic place.
[309] But, you know, you meet people and they're just like, I didn't even know you were playing.
[310] You know, you'd be like, oh, me, what are you doing in Newcastle?
[311] You're like, I'm playing Newcastle Academy tonight.
[312] They're like, but I've follows you on Twitter.
[313] I've not seen anything on your, you know, because I used to be known for tweeting quite a lot back around 2011 and 12.
[314] I used to get into a lot of trouble and have arguments and such on there, but you realize that everyone has their way of discovering and digesting and discovering, you know, discovering music.
[315] The same way we do with films and so on, or how you read about, some people just read BBC Sport.
[316] Some people just follow a Twitter account that's updates you on the Premier League.
[317] And there's some people who only find out about music from Spotify.
[318] And there's some people who still only religiously listen to the capital breakfast show every morning.
[319] And the thing that I'd find is I just have to know where my fans are and what they want.
[320] There's always going to be that group of people, though, that if you're not in the charts, they think that you've either retired or 40 or something.
[321] Exactly.
[322] And they still think that's the case for me. So I'll be like, even when I got a taxi to Brixton in February, because I'd like to get black taxis many because one of my cousins are black cab driver.
[323] You can't use Uber.
[324] I like the tube, but whilst I'm blonde, which is, for the foreseeable future, the tube's not a safe place for me at the moment.
[325] It's a selfie central.
[326] And then obviously you have one or two, and then that leads to 10 more and 20 more.
[327] And I don't mind me in the general public.
[328] I love it.
[329] But it also, it's nice to just sit on a tube and listen to music sometimes rather than having constant photos.
[330] But this guy was like, so what's you doing?
[331] Were you guys, there was a gig playing tonight?
[332] I was like, yeah, it's my gig.
[333] It's like, oh, what?
[334] I'm driving examples of his own gig.
[335] I was like, yeah, yeah, you're taking me to sound check now.
[336] He went, oh, I could have sworn you retired.
[337] You're like, my eldest used to come watch you.
[338] Does that piss you off a bit?
[339] Yeah, because I'm like, when they're like, my oldest used to watch you, I'm like, well, if he just followed me on Instagram, he could still keep up to date with my song releases and he can still come on.
[340] Anyway, I ended up putting all three of his kids and their partners on the guest list.
[341] Oh, really?
[342] And then I got a DM, I think, from one of his sons the next day.
[343] I think his son was maybe 26.
[344] It was like, oh, time of my life, remind him.
[345] So you just realize that because you're not on Capital FM anymore, that certain people, if like, I don't know, they could be a painter -de -decorator.
[346] They could be in a state age, It could be a, you know, a taxi driver or whatever, but everyone has their go -to places for music and it might be like in your office where you work all day on they have Radio One on.
[347] So whatever's on Radio One may dictate which festivals they go to or who they go and see on tour because it's advertised on there.
[348] It's like, you know, like playing at V festival, playing at Queenfielders, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[349] But if you're not, if other people only discover music from their spinning class.
[350] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[351] And whatever music's plan.
[352] So people message you and go, oh your new single was on in my spinning class today i didn't even realize you were still releasing music and you almost want to go well i've released three albums since then and you know 11 singles but you can't it is quite frustrating was that you left you kind of left the when you were with those labels and you were charting all the time with these with these these like big global hits you leave that game and then was there a moment where it was difficult to deal with the what you've described there where it was most difficult to deal with it, where people are going, where are you?
[353] Like, where's the music?
[354] Like, why aren't you chatting if you fall in?
[355] Well, it is.
[356] You know what also is really frustrating is like, so I've performed in 27 countries in Europe.
[357] I'd say about 10 of those countries, I've headlined festivals.
[358] So there was a period where I was really big in Finland, Hungary, Estonia, Czech, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania.
[359] I'll be doing one or two festivals in those countries every year for four or five years.
[360] Headlining or second on the bill.
[361] really, really decent fees.
[362] And then I left Ministry of Sound, 2013, signs of Sony, didn't really have, had no success at Sony.
[363] I think I had one top 10 single, album bombed.
[364] They spent a fortune on it, didn't really know where to position me. And all of a sudden, all the gigs died up in these countries as well.
[365] And we were going back to them with Spotify numbers and, you know, saying, well, he's still got, you know, 4 % of his fans are in 100%.
[366] which is massive considering my fan base in the UK.
[367] And Australia is my second big.
[368] It's like 4 % in Hungary.
[369] And then it would be like, you know, 1 % of his listeners of Poland.
[370] That's a pretty big listenership still.
[371] And then it was like 2 .8 % of his listenership in Colombia.
[372] And you go to these promoters and they'll just be like, look, his last single, 10 % of his listeners came from your country and they're almost like, yeah, but he's not on radio.
[373] And you're like, radio fucking debt, you know?
[374] or you know i haven't been and done a chat show in germany for a bit so i'm not getting i played the biggest festival in germany is called rock hammering and rocking park so that's like they're reading and leads i played that festival three times unbelievable massive crowds i knew the words word for word like half my set i had three top ten singles in germany and then the moment you're not on radio they're like no i would like to book him but uh until he gets back on to radio and you're Like, well, they know my other hits and like, and there's people streaming the new stuff.
[375] So this summer, we've got, we've got Bena Kassim in Spain.
[376] We've got a gig lined up in Portugal and I'm playing Amsterdam this Friday.
[377] But it's been really tough, like to actually go in and like almost having to present the figures.
[378] I see this with artists that have that meteorite with Craig David and he's an example of an artist at 18 years old.
[379] I think he had a number one album, something fucking staggering.
[380] And he's only like a year older than me. but in my mind Craig Davis was like five or six years old because he was in the charts at the same age as I was listening to it so I was in clubs listening to garage music yeah exactly and he was on top of the pops yeah because I didn't have any success until eight years after that so I was 26 27 yeah and there's a 22 year gap between yeah when Craig David I think had his first one to his his most written album is that a thing of like you basically start competing with a former version of your success you have to I only compete with myself but and when I'm in the studio I'm only compete myself.
[381] But the former...
[382] Yeah, and my former person, which is why I say to you, I'm over the moon that I've got my busiest summer in six years.
[383] I'm so in love for this album.
[384] I'm still playing this album, even though it's been finished for months.
[385] But that's why I'm like, I'd love to just taste that chart success again, just once or twice.
[386] A, to shut up all the people who think I'm retired, and B, just to remember what it feels like.
[387] It's almost like a little validation that my career is going continue for the next five, six, seven, eight years, as long as I stay fit and healthy and I keep producing music and people still want to come and, you know, they choose one night a year they go out to a gig, 10 of their mates, get absolute off their face and have the time of life.
[388] If they, I want them to pick me for that, then I've got a career.
[389] I don't need anything else.
[390] I don't need radio.
[391] I don't even really need streaming.
[392] But it would just be nice to have that validation.
[393] And I shouldn't reach that again, but it would be really nice to feel that again.
[394] So every time I get in a taxi, it's like, oh, you're sure, oh, yeah.
[395] heard you.
[396] I see you on Jonathan Rossi the other day.
[397] I thought you'd given up, you know, as Australia, rather than just sitting there going I've never stopped releasing music.
[398] I've never stopped touring, but I've been touring for 16 years.
[399] I've been releasing music for 16 years.
[400] But you know what I mean?
[401] Slightly frustrating, but I think this about myself, and when you're talking about having this kind of chasing the former version of yourself, I worry about that sometimes.
[402] I think, I always think to my, especially now that I'm on Dragon's then on the BBC, I think when I come off that, the cabbie who watches BBC 1 but doesn't have a clue about podcasting or this is going to happen.
[403] Well, you have some people, oh, you're the podcast guy.
[404] And there's other dragon, you're the dragon.
[405] It's an age thing for me. Someone's coming up to me in the street.
[406] I know exactly where they know me from by their demographic.
[407] And if a 56 -year -old male comes up to me, oh, you're on Dragon's done.
[408] He has no idea that I do anything else or that I'm, you know.
[409] So in saying that, right?
[410] So on my last tour, most nights I come out after our stage before i got on the tour bus and you know my tour manager will be out and they'll be like look you'd be out in about an hour if you want to wear i know it's called put a hoodie on you know it's like he's make sure they'll you know i say just go and give them a load of monster munch or whatever you know so it goes out with a big whatever's left on our rider monster munch maybe a couple of beers he checks their age and so some you might have 200 people waiting after the gig and then by the time i come out at 11 30 12 there might only be 20 but i'll always say to him where did you buy this ticket from and why did you buy this ticket.
[411] It just was a little bit of market research and all the young kids are like we saw advertise on your Instagram and pretty much anyone over 30, 40 years old, they saw a billboard on a bus stop or on a train station or their friend forwarded them a link from gigs and tours or bands in town on Facebook.
[412] So even though I'm not on bands in town, I don't go on Facebook much.
[413] I don't really decide when my posters are put up.
[414] That's like the touring company, the promotions company decide that as long as these people know where to find me that's great and then they come to the gig and then maybe there's like four or five songs they haven't heard that I've released in last two years but chances are the two of them they'll fall in love with and go back and continue to stream those songs or they add it to their playlist.
[415] There's a need though to try to detach a little bit from the external validation driving your self -opinion I guess because as much as it can be like a good driver of ambition and competition and having something to aim for is great.
[416] You don't want to be dragged, like, because I can see how an artist who is used to getting number ones all the time could get a number two and feel like shit, because it's a number two.
[417] Whereas really, without all the number ones, number two is unbelievable.
[418] Well, yeah, I was saying this earlier, these here are my chart, top tens.
[419] Yeah.
[420] All of those, those are my three number twos.
[421] That was actually unorthodox with Wretch.
[422] Yeah, yeah.
[423] That was, we'll be coming back with Calvin and that was say nothing, which came out after that and even looking back it's just like like to go from six to three from two to one it would have been nice if those last few just went one one one like the difference you know like the difference between that one and number one was about 267 downloads on iTunes and the difference in that one that one was maybe like 400 in something and it's like I know it's nice to say it's amazing so I've had two number one singles and a number one album out of everything that I've done in my career but it would be like extra nice just I've had four number ones You know what I mean?
[424] But that's exactly what I mean You're never going to be I don't need sleep over it What can you tell me about this album?
[425] When I'll let listen to something I need some kind of flavor Of this eighth album There's, I've never done drama bass before And there's two drama bass tracks on it Okay I used to, when I started emceeing Like 15, it was mainly over UK garage Or garage, garage And the 10 tracks on this album and my garage.
[426] And then there's three drill tracks with probably the best spitting I've ever done.
[427] There's like, I'll play you a song afterwards, but there's a track where I'm just spitting straight for three minutes.
[428] We shot the first half of the video in a shipping container yard in Brisbane, which being Brisbane, we got to use for free.
[429] So, complete, no regulations, just like, yeah, might, open the gate for you, we'll be back at eight.
[430] Just go where you want.
[431] Just don't break a leg.
[432] or anything down anything stupid um so we shot this video which i directed in a container yard and one of my mates who's in construction we shot the second half of the video on the roof of his new apartment block where i'm standing on top of the lift shaft and then we got drone footage going around me um very cost effective video and it's basically just me wrapping solidly for three minutes and i think it's probably the best rap and spit i've ever done it i based it all on buster rhymes like i used you know from back when i was like 17 So I'm just hoping, well, I know that when people hear this album, they're going to go, fuck, he sounds good, he sounds comfortable.
[433] He sounds the most confident, best performances I've ever heard him do.
[434] I truly believe that.
[435] And I can't wait for people to hear it.
[436] Because it's also like you associate drill music with gangs and knife crime and selling drugs.
[437] And I've basically just taken inspiration from the beat.
[438] and just done Elliot you know I'm being true to myself I'm not that was just what I've always done it was just like I used to feel like I was saying she was just off air before I used to feel like I was this uninvited guest to rap and hip -hop because I felt that you needed certain credentials you know to do it and then you slowly realize that no it's just like an art form as long as as you're respectful of the culture it's just like what are you doing with that that music what what story are you telling and you've always just got to tell your own story i guess having been through all of this elliott if i may call you elliott having been through the fame the you know the ups and downs of the music industry the you know the sex the drugs the rock and roll all of it and also the family the kids and all of that if you were advising a younger elliott who might be listening to this and what actually matters in terms of the components that make for a good life what would you say now in hindsight having tasted it all right now i mean like being a dad is so so important to me and so rewarding especially once the little one enyo who's now four he was a bit later with the speech the fact he can now speak it's like my young my eldest evander he was speaking like 18 months he was saying words and then our our youngest didn't really start speaking to was three but now it's not only just being able to communicate with them but then listen to them to speak to each other.
[439] There's bonkers stuff that comes out of their mouth.
[440] It's just like, it's the most rewarding thing of the day.
[441] I'll spend most of the day just writing down quotes they've said and send them to my mum and dad or my sister or to Erin's family.
[442] Just like, you won't believe.
[443] And like the stuff that comes out of the mouth, that's, that's, like, for me, it's like I love cooking.
[444] I love food.
[445] I love fine dining.
[446] I love eating out.
[447] Like food is so important to me. Training is so important to me. Sleep is important to me. Sex is important to me. Being a dad's important to me. And if I'm being totally honest, like, I make music for a living, but I could, right now, I love being on stage.
[448] But if someone was like, you've got another year now, you're not going to write one song or do another gig, I'd be totally happy with that as long as I had all the other things.
[449] Interesting.
[450] We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest writes the question for the next guest.
[451] Okay.
[452] And I read it now.
[453] So I haven't seen this before.
[454] It says, of all the achievements in your life, Which do you think made the biggest impact on another?
[455] On another?
[456] I'm going to guess they mean...
[457] Also, everything you achieved another person?
[458] Yes.
[459] Of all the achievements in your life, which do you think made the biggest impact on another person?
[460] That's interesting.
[461] It's a really good question.
[462] Two minutes in your life, which one do you make?
[463] That is a really interesting question.
[464] Well, do you know what I would say, actually?
[465] and I could probably apply this to a few I'll apply it to two people rather than just one person in particular is there's a guy three three people in particular so there was a guy called David Stewart who was my guitarist for three and a half years very different to me who's like a private school educated kid but and and you know grew up in money if you like, near Westbourne Grove.
[466] And we used to rib him quite a bit.
[467] He was like six, seven years younger and all of us.
[468] But it was a great kid, really good guitarist, really good keyboard player, great singer, good looking.
[469] He always wanted to make it as a solo artist.
[470] And for whatever reason, this was around the same time, Ed Sheeran started blowing up where it's like, you could be the best looking kid in the world.
[471] But, you know, no offense, Ed's a really good mate at mine, but you know what I mean?
[472] Ed's not a model.
[473] He's not that Justin Timberlake cut.
[474] But David Stewart, fair play to him.
[475] We spent a lot time writing songs together.
[476] I would try and hone his lyrics.
[477] He was amazing with melody.
[478] And he's now officially the most successful songwriter in the world in terms of streams.
[479] So he wrote the last three Jonas Brothers singles.
[480] And he wrote Dynamite for BTS, which is, I think, the third or fourth most streamed song of all time.
[481] It was the most stream song of the last year.
[482] I'm not saying he owes that to me. But what I'm saying is I know for fact that his years on the road, with me and the time me writing songs of them was instrumental in his drive and ambition and his craft.
[483] I feel like he may have gone on to do this anyway, but he, you know, he definitely, I feel like success, he's more success and I'm really proud of him, like, that he's now the most successful songwriter in the world.
[484] You know, and then there's like my guitarist who replaced him, another guy called Kai Kai, he's gone on to be very successful composer, He left me to go and play guitar with Dura Lipper for a few years when she was blown up and my drummer.
[485] He was playing with the streets and the Lily Allen and played with me for five years.
[486] He went on to help put together Ed Sheeran's live show and create the technology behind his loop pedals.
[487] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[488] And then my playback guy, he's the guy who runs the laptops, which run alongside the live musicians.
[489] He's gone on to put together huge shows for Kygo in Las Vegas.
[490] So I feel like nearly everybody who's worked alongside with me, I've learnt from them.
[491] But I guess what I'm saying is I'm glad that they've all gone on to do huge things.
[492] They haven't gone on to just be standard session musicians.
[493] You know, like my bass player, Andy Shelljakes, now a producer in his own right, he produced all night.
[494] So that song was just me and him.
[495] You know, so my biggest song, I suppose, from the second year in my career was down to him.
[496] Like everybody, there's not one person I've worked with closely.
[497] in a musical level, you know, in terms of what people regard as session musicians, most session musicians just go on to play for other bands on the road for eternity, you know, earning three, 400 pounds a gig and are playing into their 50s or 60s, just getting by it, whereas all the guys who've been part of my band, who are basically my brothers on tour and my family, all have been made incredible success of themselves.
[498] That's dope.
[499] I mean, that says a lot about the environment that you guys have together when you're together.
[500] And like...
[501] Yeah, I'm quite proud of that, you know?
[502] Because I didn't try, I didn't intend to do that.
[503] It's just, obviously, it was clearly a nice place to work and was inspirational and was very creative.
[504] And ambitious.
[505] And they've parted company with me all on good terms and have gone, I'm not just going to sit back.
[506] I'm just going to go and do what Elliot's done in my own way.
[507] And in David, Stuart's case, it's like, strapped veric, you know, like, produced and wrote the biggest song.
[508] in the world that year for a Korean pop man, mental.
[509] Mad.
[510] Elliot, example.
[511] Thank you.
[512] Thank you.
[513] I've loved this.
[514] Yeah, I mean, these conversations are all so unbelievably different, but I think your honesty, and there's a real sort of overwhelming sense of inspiration I get from watching a man go on a journey and change in so many really fundamental ways in terms of their character, their craft, their art. even like their emotional awareness and their ability to like be in touch with their emotions tends to be the case that women can be the catalyst certainly for me it was you meet the right you're very easy to speak to though I must say you're you give me a real sense of safety in that I can talk about whatever I want and there's no agenda which is good.
[515] That's really interesting yeah because you know it's funny because I write these questions down that I actually don't write any questions down but I write like bullet points things to remember and then I genuinely go in the direction that I'm interested in but so many things you talk about even from breathwork my girlfriend is a breathwork practitioner.
[516] So I'm doing breathwork all the time these days.
[517] You know, the Wimhoff thing, we've just booked a retreat to do Wimhoff's ice thing.
[518] So I had no idea about any of this.
[519] Yeah, exactly.
[520] So that's why, like, when you're saying, I find it really intriguing to, like, probe in around there.
[521] Yeah.
[522] But it's all led by curiosity.
[523] And there's so much in your story that is really, really inspiring to me. And I'm actually the most inspiring thing for me is what happens next.
[524] So the most inspiring thing to me is seeing how your eighth album plays out, how you continue to, like, move with the changing times and changing platforms and who that, that creative and artist becomes.
[525] But yeah, thank you for your time today.
[526] I love these conversations and it's been super energizing for me. And I know it will be for everybody that's listened.
[527] Thank you.
[528] Cheers, bro.