JRE MMA Show #67 with Kevin Lee

[0] Yeah, two, one.

[1] Kevin Lee, what's up, man?

[2] There it is.

[3] What's going on?

[4] I'm going to see you happy.

[5] Yeah, yeah, you know, I got to give you some thanks for even for doing it.

[6] Before the fight happened, I had kind of already had in my mind.

[7] I'm like, okay, it's been a year since we last kind of did this.

[8] It was right after the Barbosa fight.

[9] And I was like, okay, I'm going to get through the fight, and then I'm going to do this.

[10] The result wasn't exactly what I wanted, you know what I mean?

[11] And it made me hesitant about doing it But I was like This is the story You know what I mean And this is As I said Kind of like Was upset at myself for a few days Eventually I just kind of got over And I'm like you know what I said I was going to do it before I'm not about to be no sore -ass loser And yeah Well like I said I love you whether you're going to lose I'm just You know It's a giant part of the game Half the game is losing Someone has to win someone else to lose.

[12] If you watch a fight, someone's losing.

[13] Unless it's a draw.

[14] And I figure it's all about how you approach it and how you take it into the next fight.

[15] And really when you look at it, I mean, it sucks.

[16] It really does.

[17] And I hate it.

[18] Like, it's something that boils up inside of me. Like, I go over, I replayed a fight a million times in my head, and I just hate losing.

[19] And I hate that feeling.

[20] But it's just the reality and it's like, it's just real life.

[21] And it's not.

[22] It's nothing you can do it.

[23] There's nothing you do once it's over.

[24] The only thing you can do is learn and grow.

[25] Exactly.

[26] And the guy you fought is a stud.

[27] He fought Hafeel Dosangos.

[28] He's a fucking legitimate world champion fighter.

[29] Yeah, when I was approached with the fight and kind of start really diving into it and really looking at him, I always liked a really big challenge, and that one was definitely one.

[30] He had already had a lot of fights that went five rounds.

[31] He's fought pretty much everybody.

[32] You know, Kamar Uzman was his last fight.

[33] Kobe Covington, he had fought a lot of top top guys and for five rounds.

[34] So I knew what type of challenge it was.

[35] It's just, I hold myself at a high esteem.

[36] So I was like, you know, I'm just ready to do it.

[37] You know what I mean?

[38] The fight itself was good, but either way, I'm going to learn from it and grow from it in.

[39] I still got a whole long road ahead of me. You do have a long road ahead of you, but, you know, as we're talking about that long row, could sneak up on you real quick and before you know it you're 37 years old trying to figure out if you still want to fight yeah that's that's that's it happens to guys i've seen it happen to guys yeah so i feel like if you approach it smart you know what i mean it can still get done which is what i'm trying to do right uh i kind of already knew that i needed to make some changes and and do some things different um even before this fight and before my last one too um but you know i just was like okay i'm gonna just get through this one and then i'll do it and now i'm gonna get through this one then I'll do it but you know that's kind of a big wake -up call to just like all right it's time to get outside of the comfort zone and kind of do something different and and kind of do what I already know I got to do what did you think was going to happen in the fight and what was surprising I didn't think they would be able to keep the the pace for sure but what surprised me was how smart he was and how he beat me tactically more than anything is you know when I was going he wasn't doing you know and he kind of he controlled the pace better than I thought he was going to you know I thought once I set that pace that he was going to be right there with me but then as it got going I started to realize oh he's not really expending much energy he's kind of just letting me burn out my energy and and then he took his moment when I made the the last mistake and really when it boiled down to it I lost one position at the end there where I went for a take down and you know Nine times out of ten, when I go and club back, the guy hits his knees.

[40] But he just stayed on his feet and stepped out.

[41] And when I hit my knees, it's like lost that position.

[42] And against a guy like that, so dangerous, a black belt and is so good, I knew one slip -up was going to be all the need.

[43] And I think he knew that, too.

[44] And he was just kind of waiting, buying his time, and hoping that I slip up.

[45] It seemed like you expended a lot of energy early on.

[46] It seemed like by the time he got the submission, you were fairly tired.

[47] Yeah, I mean Fallas you always used to tell me this And it was always There's tired and can and tired and can't You know, it's a fight It's you're gonna be tired Right, right But I still do think I had my legs underneath me And still could It's just I could have played it better tactically I could have had, you know, more time When I wasn't just going, going Like you said, especially in that first round if I would have had a little bit better experience maybe or something I you know I don't know I'll figure that out but I could have played it a little smarter like he did are you do you have a person that's giving you strategy or are you sort of making your strategy up on the fly that's one of the things that that's kind of the main thing that I'm uh Robert Follis was that guy for me until he passed and and then I kind of just picked up the ball and you know I understand fighting um but yeah it's it's mostly me doing the strategy and right now that that's where i'm in the limbo of trying to find somebody who already has that experience and has already been there and done it uh to tell me a little better strategy yeah i think it's so critical man i really do and we had this conversation over the phone about it i think that a young fighter with a lot of potential like yourself there's a reason why fighters have trainers there's a reason why fighters have head coaches it's not because they want to give up all their money it's because it helps and you you can delegate those that that thought process to a master someone who's a master of martial arts who understands positions who understand strategies seeing guys tired seen guys good seen you in the gym seeing you grind understands your skill set understands how you are when you come in perfect understands how you are when you come in tired you know so that that is just giant and having someone who understands you psychologically as well and and also having someone that you respect and that you want to impress all those things are huge yeah it's it's It's a big one, especially, like you said, being able to talk to you, too, and being able to understand you.

[48] I think that's what Rob did really well.

[49] Yes.

[50] And he kind of...

[51] He was so good.

[52] He kind of, like, reeled me in a little bit.

[53] Like, I'm the type, I'm just kind of go, go, go, and I kind of think higher to myself than maybe even I am, but that's just how I am.

[54] But that's how you have confidence, right?

[55] Yeah, but he was the type to kind of reel me in, and he used to even tell me, like, hey, you don't got to get hit so much.

[56] And, you know, I'll stand in front of a guy and just like, especially when I was younger.

[57] It was a little even worse.

[58] And, you know, because that's just how I'd be feeling.

[59] Right.

[60] But, you know, he was kind of the type to reel me in more than anything.

[61] It's not like he would tell me one specific techniques or it was even about his style or anything like that.

[62] It was just a way that he was able to kind of get through to me and kind of make me understand what it is that I'm trying to do.

[63] Yeah.

[64] And you guys, you guys had just a good relationship, too.

[65] He was such a good guy.

[66] man such a good dude to i mean just just losing him i mean it was devastating for the whole mixed martial arts world but losing him for you had to be a real just a giant change in your career yeah it's uh which fight did he die before uh he died right after the tony fight which is a whole another piece of it you know i know he had a whole lot of uh uh things going on early in his life, especially, you know, with his family.

[67] And when we went to his memorial and people were kind of explaining, you know, what it's like growing up in a, he grew up, a Jehovah Witness.

[68] So he's like explaining what it's like to grow up like that and, you know, to try and get away from that and having your family disown you and how like that can, I understand, I understand importance of family, so I can get that.

[69] But then even, I'm like, man, you know, they would tell us, we were more so keeping them alive longer than, than anything.

[70] So I'm like, man, if I would have won that fight with Tony, it's like, fuck, what he should, would he still be here?

[71] You know what I mean?

[72] Those are the type of like, did I do it to myself almost?

[73] But I already know.

[74] I'm already at the point where I kind of got over it a little bit, and I kind of understand that I'm not going to be able to replace them by any means, but I am going to have to get that person who can still speak to me in that same light, you know, the only way.

[75] that I'm going to make it right is to win that title and do it for him.

[76] You know, he kind of saw that for me and he was kind of the one to give me that confidence to say, because he's already coached multiple UFC champions.

[77] So when he told me that he could see me being a champ that really like, I was like, oh, okay, like I didn't really, like I kind of got it a little bit, but I didn't really know it until like he gave me that kind of confidence.

[78] Right.

[79] So the only thing that's going to make it right is to go out there and win that title.

[80] And that's, that's, if I got, no matter what I got to do, I'm not stopping until I do it.

[81] Are you 100 % committed to 170 now?

[82] Yeah, I think so.

[83] I think it's, I think it's, I think it's right.

[84] You look like you're about 190 now, right?

[85] Yeah, I'm just about, I'm about 185, 186, which is normally what I would be about getting ready for a 55 -pound fight too.

[86] Actually, when I stepped into the cage, I was lighter going into this fight than I was for some of my 55 -pound fights.

[87] Really?

[88] Yeah, I walked in about one.

[89] 81 um and like for the tony fight was 184 so you know that tony fight was a mess because of the staff right like yeah that you guys have a decision where you had to make whether you're not you're gonna pull out of the fight yeah i mean i i tried my best to keep it from everybody so and and i kind of succeeded in that um i mean really the only was something over it at the wayans right yeah put a uh makeup by the susy the girl she uh she did it for me but you know that really just made the the the the the the weight cut and my body much worse.

[90] I mean, I don't really look at that fight and say that.

[91] Tony's a dog, and I kind of give that to him, you know.

[92] And I kind of, I learned a lot about myself from that fight, even.

[93] And then fights after that.

[94] I've had a lot of tough weight cuts going into him.

[95] So I don't really put too much.

[96] That first round, though, man. Before you got tired, you had a mounted.

[97] And that was a big first round for you.

[98] Yeah.

[99] Yeah.

[100] But that was one of the fights where if I would have listened to Rob, in that fight, I would already be the champion.

[101] And then everything would have looked different.

[102] You know, I would already fought McGregor by now.

[103] And then the whole sport would have looked different, I think.

[104] But I didn't listen to him.

[105] What did he tell you that you didn't listen to?

[106] He tried to tell me to calm down.

[107] Like, when you see me, like, walk out for that fight, I was on, I wasn't even, like, on 10.

[108] I was on 12.

[109] I was on 12 from the morning that I woke up until, you know, until the fight ended.

[110] And that adrenaline pump and that, I mean, I never felt like that since.

[111] I probably don't.

[112] I don't really want to feel like that either.

[113] I was, when I stepped into the arena that night, you know, we get there about two hours before the fight actually is going on, I was ready to fight.

[114] And when I was warming up, I was ready to fight.

[115] I was fighting people in the back.

[116] There was no warm up.

[117] There was no warm up.

[118] I was fighting.

[119] Now, how much did that staff fuck with you?

[120] I think it put me into a state of fighter, flight for you were compromised for days before you know not even just that that you know the day of the fight put me in that state for for days before where it made the weight cut uh so horrible like because my body just trying to hold on to everything and trying to you know when i woke up that morning i was about 162 i woke up at 5 a .m. wands or at 9 a .m. i have to be 155 so i've got 7 pounds to to cut, which is, okay, you know, it's not too bad.

[121] Cut about nine pounds the day before.

[122] I'm a little dehydrate.

[123] I'm a little, you know, I'm a little already worn.

[124] But as the weight cut was going, you know, we got until about 8 o 'clock and I had only cut a pound and a half.

[125] So it's still 161 in a half something at 8 o 'clock.

[126] Wayans are at 9 o 'clock to the point where we got to do something.

[127] So they start to put me in the bathtub just because we do most of our cuts in the bath.

[128] When you're in high humidity, you're going to cut more water weight or you're going to sweat more.

[129] And water is obviously 100 % humidity.

[130] So they start throwing boiling hot water because we couldn't get the water hot enough to make me sweat more.

[131] Jesus Christ.

[132] So we're just taking kettles of hot water and just pouring it on me. And, you know, doctors are in and I was 10, 12 people in and out of the hotel room to make sure I'm okay.

[133] And to make sure that I could cut the weight.

[134] and I was just in such like an adrenaline fucking like on 10 I'm like just get out you know I'm screaming at everybody I'm literally I was in the tub I was crying like but to me I was like there's no way I'm not making this weight and six pounds in about an hour maybe two hours because I wait in about 9 o 'clock or so or I mean about 930 10 or so um six pounds in two hours it's it was brutal but i think that just kept me at such a such a tin on my adrenaline level i never really understood how to bring it back down you know and rob would try and talk to me and try and tell me like hey calm down like you know take a few deep breaths and i'm like yeah yeah i'm breathing whatever i'm went i wasn't listening to it so now when did you know you had staff uh the sunday the sunday of the fight yeah oh jesus so you had a whole week to think about it almost yeah i mean i didn't think about it like that i was to be honest with you yeah which is notice i noticed like a little uh just a bump and it and it got like really big and i thought a spider had bit me or something um and you know for for sunday i just kind of you know i didn't think about it i wasn't training that day so it was nothing when i went in on on monday uh doy was actually the one uh duy cooper my my uh striking coach he was the one to kind of notice it and he was like hey is that all right and you know uh and then rob when he took a look at it he was like oh yeah that's that's that's staff for sure and uh you know i just kind of what do you do when that happens if you can't if you not you decided not to take antibiotics yeah yeah so what do you do i roughed it i was like you didn't put anything topical on it or was there was there was a scratch that got infected or a cut i honestly have no idea when i just when i woke up on sunday it just was sticking out of my chest till about about right here and and I thought it was a spider bite or something.

[135] You know, I had never really had staff like that before.

[136] I knew guys who had it, especially through college wrestling.

[137] Those rooms are just so dirty and filthy that I've seen other people with it, but it didn't look like that.

[138] You know what I mean?

[139] You normally look like a, you know, you'll have an open wound or something, and then that'll get yellow and pussy and disgusting.

[140] But this was underneath my skin.

[141] So it was not like an open wound or anything.

[142] When I talked to doctors, they said it was just on the layer of muscle, I guess, or something, and kind of sticking out from it.

[143] At the time, I didn't really know what that meant.

[144] Like, he said it was staff, and I was like, okay, you know, like, I still feel good.

[145] Like, I could still move around.

[146] Like, we hit pads that day.

[147] I still felt good.

[148] You know, I can, I was like, I'm showing up to fight, you know.

[149] So you didn't put anything on it or there's no?

[150] So for six days, you just trained and did everything with that staff?

[151] That was kind of like the last thing on my mind even.

[152] You know, I was there to fight.

[153] When I signed the contract, I'm showing up to the fight.

[154] Like, I haven't pulled out of a fight yet.

[155] When I say I'm going to do something, I'm going ahead and do it.

[156] Regardless if my leg was halfway falling off, it's like, shit, I still got another one.

[157] You know, I still got five more toes on the other leg, so.

[158] Right, but looking back on it now, are you happy that you made the decision that you made?

[159] Oh, yeah, it wasn't smart, but, you know.

[160] But you would have done it again tomorrow.

[161] Yeah, I would have done it again, yeah.

[162] No doubt.

[163] No doubt.

[164] I mean, first world title fight, you know.

[165] Do you do anything to prevent staff?

[166] Do you use, like, defense soap or anything like that?

[167] Yeah, ever since you actually hooked me up with those guys of defense.

[168] Oh, thank you.

[169] Glad you did that.

[170] Yeah, they've been great.

[171] They're great.

[172] Shout out the guy.

[173] Yeah, yeah.

[174] They're awesome.

[175] So now I just take way more preventive ways.

[176] Yeah, I haven't had anything flare up on me since.

[177] Do you take probiotics?

[178] Here and there, here and there.

[179] It's a good way to prevent that as well.

[180] It also helps prevent.

[181] rent rimworm.

[182] I try my best to eat as many natural foods, and especially like a lot of yogurts and kefir is one of them.

[183] Cool.

[184] So, you know, I try to stay on top of it.

[185] And at least no flare -up has been happening since.

[186] You know, I shower everything.

[187] I make sure, like, I'm on top of it.

[188] I make sure I bring my soap and I shower because...

[189] You don't want that again.

[190] It's mostly the, you know, yeah, the fight didn't go my way or whatever.

[191] But it was about three or four weeks after that fight where I was just, I was wrecked.

[192] I was just the worst shape ever.

[193] And when I got on those antibiotics, I just...

[194] Fucking kills people.

[195] Staff kills people.

[196] Yeah, it was terrible.

[197] People that ignore staff, I want to scream at them.

[198] I'm like, listen, man, you could die.

[199] It seems like you just got an infection.

[200] But that shit gets systemic.

[201] It gets in your bloodstream, and you could fucking die.

[202] One of my friend Brian Callan's friend's wife died.

[203] And he went over the house and she was like, you know, some people get crazy with holistic stuff.

[204] Oh, she's just going to try natural healing.

[205] And he's like, get her to a fucking doctor.

[206] He's like her gums were bleeding.

[207] Jesus.

[208] Yeah, it had gotten systemic and she wound up dying.

[209] Jesus.

[210] Yeah, man, from staff.

[211] I've had it twice.

[212] And the first time I had it, when I got on the antibiotics, first of all, the antibiotics.

[213] Yeah.

[214] Just kick your ass.

[215] The fact that Luke Rockhold won the fucking title against Chris Widman while he was on antibiotics, shows you what a stud that guy is.

[216] Yeah.

[217] Because that shit kicks your ass.

[218] He had staff when he fought Wydenman.

[219] I don't know that actually Yeah, he was wrecked I know those antibiotics mess you up bad I've done them once for like a sore throat Or something earlier A couple years ago And it just wrecked me bad So I knew like going into that fight I was like I'd rather have the staff than the antibiotics I was like I haven't asked that before I've had the antibodies I know what they're going to do to me So I was thinking that when you fought And afterwards talking you about it I think you probably made the right move To not do antibiotics But I don't know I'm not a doctor But I was thinking that, that it just weakens you so much.

[220] You know, it's just, you live and learn from these things, I think, you know, and it's just part of the journey.

[221] And before I would have, like, where I wanted everything to be perfect or I wanted everything to kind of be the way I saw it, you know, especially like starting out the career.

[222] Like, everybody wants to be Floyd when you fit you know and no, and it's just, you're not getting touched and it's just easy.

[223] But then when you take a look back at that and you don't see like how many.

[224] any amateur fights Floyd had.

[225] You know, he's got his dad who fought.

[226] He's got his uncles and his whole family been fighting.

[227] So he's learned from all their mistakes and all their losses and everything to where it's like I'm the first one of my family to even ever think about this.

[228] So you're going to bump your head here and there and it just is what it is.

[229] Comparison is a thief of joy.

[230] You can't, you can't do that.

[231] You've got to just think about being the best that you can be.

[232] It's hard, though.

[233] It's hard, bro.

[234] It's very hard.

[235] You're being inspired by people, but comparing yourself.

[236] to their path everybody's got a different path everyone's got different genetics right some people are just better at certain things some people are some people struggle with certain aspects of the sport I mean that's everyone's got their own individual challenge it's one of the things that's so interesting about it is watching people adapt and grow yeah and so you're in that stage right now right you're still young you're still a top contender you're still one of the best fighters in the division you just have to kind of figure out what you're going to do and how you're going to do it so what are you thinking right now so I'm leaving straight from here I'm going to go to Phoenix for about a week and work with John Crouch.

[237] Great.

[238] Great idea.

[239] Love that guy.

[240] Yeah, he's great.

[241] Outstanding.

[242] Even seeing the way his coach has died.

[243] I've never worked with him before, but we have a mutual kind of respect.

[244] I fought a couple of his guys before, and so he's definitely one of the masters.

[245] He's one of the guys I want to pick his brain.

[246] I kind of want to go to a couple of different places and just see how they are.

[247] I'm going from there to Colorado and work with Trevor Whitman.

[248] Excellent.

[249] And then go right to Montreal.

[250] and work with for us up that's what's up that's what's up i like it though they're all amazing great minds yes um as i go to each place i'm i kind of see what i like and what i don't like about each one you know and see how they see how everything is there you know the life and you know uh with training partners and in in all these other things because that's just as important too so absolutely yeah i think also a shock to the system is important like moving going to a new camp going to a new environment, because you want to shine.

[251] Yeah.

[252] And also, and you realize, like, man, everything's on the line here.

[253] Like, you've literally uprooted your life, moved to some new place, and it makes you be more dedicated.

[254] It makes you realize you can't just fuck off here.

[255] Like, this is the real world.

[256] You're a real world -class fighter, and you're on your path to attempt to become a world champion, and this is the best way to do it.

[257] I think it's so critical for fighters to make decisions and make changes and make moves when they know that they have a missing piece of the puzzle.

[258] You know, they're missing a master coach or they're missing, you know, a great wrestling coach or a great striking coach, whatever the fuck it is, a great environment with world -class fighters, whatever it is.

[259] Have you talked to Jackson's?

[260] Have you talked to those guys at all?

[261] I haven't, but, you know, I know Brandon Gibson down there and I've been wanting to work with him for a long time.

[262] I might, you know, I don't know.

[263] this little trip is going to take up six weeks of the time and then I figure when I get back to Vegas and kind of regroup and be able to make some decisions from there on what's going to happen.

[264] I haven't done something like this until I, since I moved to Vegas in the first place where I just kind of packed up my car and just start driving west and, you know, was sleeping out on my car.

[265] Where were you at before that?

[266] I was still in Detroit.

[267] Oh, so you went right from Detroit, right to Vegas?

[268] Yeah, yeah.

[269] I was still in college when I got the call.

[270] So, you know, that was like the time where I'm like, I don't know which way my life is going to go.

[271] You know, I had got done with the fight with Al Ayahuahquinta my debut.

[272] And after that fight, it was like, I got to make some changes.

[273] I just didn't know what.

[274] And that was just as scary a time as now, you know.

[275] Even though now, like, I ain't sleeping on my car, you know what I mean?

[276] And I ain't eating whatever I can.

[277] I can eat some nice, I can go to restaurants and, you know.

[278] But it still kind of feels the same, you know.

[279] It's still that same.

[280] It's scary.

[281] You know, I know a lot because I don't necessarily know what it's going to look like, but I ain't never really let that stop me either.

[282] What about American Top Team?

[283] You thought about that at all?

[284] I have.

[285] I mean, I know a lot of guys that moved down to Florida.

[286] Do you know what the problem with Florida is?

[287] It's too nice.

[288] It's too nice.

[289] The girls.

[290] Yeah, yeah, it's too like.

[291] There's too many crazy freaks down there.

[292] But, you know, people say the same thing about Vegas, too, though.

[293] You know, when I first moved to Vegas, I think Dana had did an interview or something, maybe like a month after I moved there and he was saying how hard it is for a fighter to make it from Vegas.

[294] And even at the time, I was like, you know, really nothing to me. Like, I don't really...

[295] I try to stay focused, you know what I mean?

[296] I try and keep a bigger pitcher in my head.

[297] I don't really let this shit get to me too much.

[298] So if I do move down to Florida, I don't think I'm just be on a beach kind of sitting back.

[299] I see some guys do it.

[300] You know what I mean?

[301] I've seen guys move down there and just get caught up in that lifestyle of sitting back.

[302] It seems to me that Vegas, if you stay away from the strip, you'd be all right.

[303] Yeah, but Miami's the whole strip.

[304] Yeah, yeah, true.

[305] It might be a little harder.

[306] It's everything.

[307] It's all of Miami.

[308] And it's the attitude down there.

[309] Everybody just parties, man. Yeah, yeah.

[310] It's everybody else, too.

[311] It's a big influence.

[312] You know Will Harris from the, what is his production inside?

[313] A fighter's life?

[314] Is that what it is?

[315] Anatomy of a fighter.

[316] Anatomy of a fighter.

[317] He was just telling me about he just went down there and he was thinking about moving there until like he spent like four days there and he was like, get the fuck out of here.

[318] I can't live here.

[319] This is crazy.

[320] These people are crazy.

[321] He said you should need a passport.

[322] I'm like, that's what I've been saying.

[323] It's like a different world.

[324] It's a different country.

[325] It's a party country down there.

[326] Yeah.

[327] I've only been once to Miami.

[328] I've got a cousin of Litter.

[329] And I mean, I went out with the intention of partying, but I was like, how.

[330] I mean, obviously, look, Kamaro Usman lives there.

[331] You can be a champion out of there.

[332] Robbie Lawler's from there.

[333] You can be a champion out there.

[334] It's one of the best gyms in the world.

[335] But it's in terms of distractions.

[336] The hard part for places like that is I'm missing that mind.

[337] You know what I mean?

[338] They got a lot of great fighters down there, and they got a lot of – I feel like the training and the atmosphere and, you know, the training partners and everything could be great.

[339] But I'm missing that great mind.

[340] And, you know, Mike Brown?

[341] I've met Mike a few times.

[342] It's a brilliant guy.

[343] There's a real respect, but we haven't really, like, clicked.

[344] Yeah.

[345] Have a conversation with him.

[346] Have a conversation with him, too.

[347] I mean, if you want to really decide what clicks with you better, I'm a big fan of Mike Brown.

[348] And obviously, Ricardo LaBoreo is a fantastic jujitsu coach.

[349] And, you know, and I'm just a whole fan of the whole organization, you know, when the way they put it together, you know.

[350] Yeah, I mean, it could be, there may be something that I might look at, you know, maybe towards the end of the summer or something like that.

[351] I kind of already got this trip set and planned, so I'm just like I'm about to pull the trigger on it and see where they take me. Beautiful.

[352] I'm very glad that you're doing that.

[353] You're making changes and trying to see, you know, where the right spot is for you.

[354] Yeah, I mean, immediately after the fight is like when it doesn't go your way or the way that you necessarily see it, it's discouraging, it's all hell.

[355] You're like, fuck, I don't know if I'm doing the right.

[356] thing i don't know if i'm i'm seeing right you know uh before the fight in in the locker room and this doesn't happen very often but i just i felt like i was seeing certain things and and i don't necessarily i'm not a religious guy like that or anything and i don't really like believe in i don't necessarily know what but when when certain things started to click for me like when you're on your way to work and you just like you're hitting every green light and then like you know somebody comes up to you they're going to say something you know what they're going to say and then you got the the time for the perfect answer it was kind of like that type of of of a feeling that i was having so i just felt like everything was like coming together right and my confidence was like boosting up so much before going you know i think the warm up was perfect the weight cut was you know it really wasn't a weight cut it is everything was perfect going into the fight so then when it didn't go my way it's like it was discouraging a little bit you know what i mean it was like fuck I didn't know what I necessarily was doing wrong or if I was on the right path you know but which leads you to think that you need a coach yeah I need somebody smarter than me you know that's just the real man everybody's smarter than you that's not you it's true like they can see you in a way that you can't see yourself yeah yeah your friends are always smarter than you yeah it's just hey man you got to stop doing that really yeah man you're fucking up like really oh shit yeah you don't see it because I'm in it like yes how do I know huh yeah it's that's life man that's life I mean it's so important to have people around you that understand you and know you yeah it's if you don't have and and then also someone that you really trust and appreciate as a coach so gigantic man yeah I think and especially for fighting because fighting is such a a personal thing to me you know it's not like that's why I never really work with any of the guys at the ufcpi like they've got everything there and they've got you know and even the coaches are great and all but it's like I need that I need to be able to trust you with my life like that's really what it is yes like no one's died inside the octagon yet but knock on wood knock on wood yeah nice table too I mean shit we've had a lot of crazy fights you know so when I get up get ready to do it I go into it with that expectation you know if you're the one you don't care how many people haven't Right, right.

[357] You know, it's 100 % for you, the chances.

[358] So I need to be able to trust every, I need to trust you with my life almost, you know.

[359] And, you know, it's hard to find that, though.

[360] The reason why I recommended Farras of a hobby is, first of all, he's one of the smartest guys I've ever talked to.

[361] Farahas is a fucking genius.

[362] Legitimate genius knows everything about MMA.

[363] I mean, there's not a stone unturned.

[364] And he coached GSP.

[365] and I feel like your style and GSP style are very similar and that you both are very good wrestlers and you're both very good at mixing up the wrestling and the striking where you don't see anything, you don't know what's coming and you both don't have any weaknesses you have an awesome submission game GSP has an awesome submission game you have great wrestling, great striking it's very similar and I think that his experience and coaching one of the greatest of all time in George St. Pierre would lend would just slide right into coaching someone like you i really believe that yeah i think for as i'm getting closer to it you know i'll know more when i when i get there but that's the last stop yeah that's the last stop on it that's the best stop and kind of the longest of it too yeah kind of had already thought that if i was a young man and i was thinking about fighting i think i'd move to montreal yeah i think he's got a special mind i do you know and i and it's not to take away from any of the brilliant coaches i mean i think you could be a world champion with duke rufus who's also a brilliant guy and an amazing coach I mean there's no bad stop for you But there's just something about you and Farras a hobby That I just feel like Yeah when I met him And I sat next to him We had dinner together As soon as I sat down next to him He told me everything I did wrong in a Tony fight Like right out the gate And I was like Bingo right on the money right I mean he's but he's sharp He's a genius man He's sharp He's smart So yeah I mean But then again Whitman I've worked with Whitman too And Whitman is really experienced dude you know he's he's coached so many people he's seeing so many different styles and done it himself a lot too so you know what i love about whitman when just engage he flatlines people whitman acts like nothing even happened yeah it's like he knew it was going to happen it's crazy like everybody's jumping and cheering and whitman like yep i think it's because he's seen so many he may have been on the other side of that too where you know it's your guy getting knocked out too so sure you know it's like Like you said, there's two people going in there.

[366] Somebody's got to lose.

[367] So he's been around the game long enough to where he understands the other side of it too.

[368] And, you know, he ain't going to go crazy.

[369] Yes.

[370] You know.

[371] Because that guy's got a family.

[372] That guy's got people that he's trying to take care of.

[373] He's got every other motivation that you got, too, you know?

[374] Yeah.

[375] Really.

[376] Yeah.

[377] I think there's also the culture shock of moving to Montreal would be good for it too.

[378] Yeah, I mean, maybe.

[379] I spent some time.

[380] It's cold as fuck so.

[381] That's why I left Detroit It was January Oh my God I've been to Montreal in January It's like yikes You go outside You get that thick fog Coming out of your mouth Woo That's why I'm going to June Yeah going June That's good for you man I think it's good for you I feel like that That cold It might be something to that You know the best wrestlers And everything Are always from the Midwest And from that cold You know why?

[382] Because they develop character Yeah I think it is something to that It's 100%.

[383] There's soft -ass people out here in California, bro.

[384] It's so easy.

[385] It's so easy to get by.

[386] All my friends from Boston that come out to California and go, people are fucking soft out here.

[387] Yeah, they don't have to shovel snow.

[388] I don't have to worry about freezing to death.

[389] You know, if your car breaks down in Boston, you're 10 miles from your house, you might freeze to death.

[390] Yeah.

[391] That's real.

[392] That's real.

[393] You better keep a blanket in that bitch.

[394] Yeah, yeah.

[395] You might have a fucking sleeping bag and a candle.

[396] You know, and I think it gives you like different, different morals.

[397] and different, like, different character to you.

[398] You know, you value things a little bit differently in that cold, you know.

[399] Detroit was the same way.

[400] It's like seven months out the year, you spend in that time indoors and a, and it feels like your family and everything because you ain't going to be inside with some fucking schmo from down the street and you don't want to, you know.

[401] Right.

[402] You have to count on each other too when it gets fucking cold.

[403] Yeah.

[404] Because everybody's in us together, literally.

[405] Literally.

[406] All is fucking cold.

[407] We ain't going out there.

[408] It's also like a vulnerability to nature that just forces you to accept your place in the universe.

[409] Like, you are vulnerable.

[410] You're very vulnerable.

[411] In California, your wife could kick you out.

[412] You're like, fuck you bitch, I'll sleep on the lawn.

[413] You can go sleep in the lawn.

[414] You don't have to worry about nothing.

[415] You know, you'd be fine.

[416] In January, you could sleep on the lawn with a good jacket on in California.

[417] It's gorgeous, too.

[418] You could just get in your car and just drive down to the beach.

[419] Yeah, exactly.

[420] She's living in a...

[421] It's too easy.

[422] To me, I think it's paradise, but, you know.

[423] too easy but then you talk to people who they've spent their whole life here and they don't see it that way so maybe it's all perspective i mean how bad ass are people from brazil and that's fucking paradise too yeah but it's rough rough paradise you know it's a little different down in brazil you know i think uh a lot of crime yeah i i get them brazilian a lot of respect they they you know some of them they really uh uh they come up out of nothing you know and literally out of nothing yep and to build that respect around their they community of stuff, I give it to him.

[424] I do as well.

[425] And you know, you got to give it up to them for creating Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu.

[426] I mean, they essentially revolutionized Jiu -Jitsu.

[427] I mean, the, the Gracie family is the most important family in the history of martial arts.

[428] And what they did with Brazil and Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu and how Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu evolved in that country, you know, just they took to it like a duck to water, man. Yeah, I wonder what it is about Brazil, that that was like the one place to stick.

[429] You know, I think that's...

[430] I think if they, if that Count Maeda had gone anywhere else.

[431] If he had landed and talked to some other dude somewhere, I think they got lucky.

[432] They found Aalio Gracie and Carlos Gracie, and they found some dudes who were just straight up warriors.

[433] And they taught those guys, and those guys were, I mean, Aalio Gracie just really, him and Carlos just thought it through.

[434] And then we're willing to test it in real competition against people much larger than them.

[435] The fact that Ilio was a small man, he wasn't a large -framed man, is the reason why Brazilian jiu -jitsu became so effective.

[436] Because Ilya had to fight off of his back.

[437] He had to tire out bigger guys first.

[438] They had to develop the concept of cooking your opponent.

[439] You know, all that wasn't in Japanese jiu -jitsu.

[440] It wasn't in judo.

[441] Judo's a beautiful, elegant martial arts with fantastic technique and powerful moves, but it wasn't Brazilian jiu -jitsu.

[442] Brazilian jiu -jitsu is largely a part of this one dynamic, incredible family.

[443] And if you look at that family, all the fucking champions hoist horian hickson you know i mean come on man hoiler there's hundreds of them i feel like fucking crazy and now crone yeah i mean jesus christ what a fucking family man henzo yeah yeah i mean high in i mean just just gracie after gracie genetic you you saw gracie like oh no killers just straight killers yeah i mean the game has changed a little bit since them but don't forget carlson and Gracie too.

[444] The game has changed a little bit since then but it has been because of them I feel like it evolved in that area and sprung out and of course you know obviously there's you know Muay Thai from Thailand Dutch kickboxing American wrestling there's so many different factors Russian wrestling so many different factors that come into what we now call mixed martial arts today but man I just keep thinking that if it wasn't for that one family who the fuck knows because the part of what made the ultimate fighter so spectacular, or the ultimate fighting championship, rather, in the first two ones, was Hoyst Gracie being this guy who's not this physically terrifying guy.

[445] Like if it was Mark Coleman, if Mark Coleman...

[446] 200 pounds of muscle.

[447] Jack, 265, with muscles up to his neck, straight up to the top of his head, his neck would just like come off of his shoulders.

[448] He was huge.

[449] If he won, you'd be like, yeah, that makes sense.

[450] But when Hoyce won, everybody was Like, shit, I got to learn jujitsu.

[451] Like, look, that guy choked that dude out with his legs.

[452] Yeah.

[453] Like, I remember people at home were going, what the fuck is this?

[454] That's what makes fighting so great, because you never know what's going to happen in real fight, you know, true, true fight.

[455] I mean, even in boxing, too, you know, you see some crazy shit like Anthony Joshua just getting beat.

[456] But, you know, but I think in MMA it's even more just because there's so many different options.

[457] I have it upon from a good source that.

[458] Anthony Joshua got dropped and sparring the weak of the fight.

[459] Wow.

[460] And he got hurt real bad, the weak of the fight, and that he was very tentative coming into that fight and very vulnerable, which makes sense.

[461] You could kind of see it on him a little bit.

[462] Even in the first round.

[463] When you even walking out, you know, you can kind of see his look and it's a little glazy.

[464] It's a little out of it.

[465] You know, I figured that it was just coming over to America for the first time and, you know, being in New York.

[466] And it's a lot of, that's a lot of pressure and a lot of, you know, especially when you talk about Deonté Wilder, like, knocking the dude into, into like the next century, like the week before.

[467] Did you see that video?

[468] Like, fuck, I got to fight him.

[469] Did you see that video that I posted on Instagram from that dude he does animation?

[470] No, no. Oh, my God.

[471] There's two amazing ones.

[472] Pull up, first of all, pull up the Deontay Wilder one because he has the fucking glove from the Avengers.

[473] and he hits this dude the guy did this incredible.

[474] Oh, oh, Ray Rod.

[475] Ray Rod did it.

[476] Yeah, yeah, Rayrod.

[477] Yeah, yeah.

[478] He's incredible.

[479] Yeah, he's crazy.

[480] That guy's animation, his graphics are amazing.

[481] But he did one for Deonti, and then he did an even more hilarious one for Andy Ruiz.

[482] Yeah.

[483] Oh, my God.

[484] I didn't see that Andy, I did see the one with Deontay.

[485] Oh, you saw that one?

[486] Okay, so pull up the Ruiz one then.

[487] Yeah.

[488] So you can see when he drops Joshua, watch this shit.

[489] It's hilarious, man. The guy's so good.

[490] Give us some.

[491] volume too can we do that or was it the soundtrack to you think we're in trouble for that I don't know yeah no volume all right no volume just play the video watch this so you see even when you're looking at Joshua after the fact look at this and then his body his body's still there but his spirit he's got a roller he's got a roller bag to go through the airport his spirit has got Tweety birds floating around his head while Anthony Joshua is still on the ground his spirit gets into a plane and flies away that was awesome that dude's awesome it's so amazing how he did that the next day the day after the fight that was out people are getting crazy who like what they can do yeah it makes you jealous a little bit I know right you know I wish I even had that kind of creative process to think it through let alone like go through with it I know.

[492] People are being crazy.

[493] That guy's a master, though.

[494] His ability to do, here's the Deonté Wilder one.

[495] Yeah, I think I saw this one.

[496] I mean, that is crazy.

[497] And then when Deontay moves away with the eyes glowing.

[498] That's awesome.

[499] He has the craziest power I've ever seen in the heavyweight division.

[500] Yeah, he's so weird.

[501] It's so weird his power.

[502] And, you know, when he fought Tyson Fury away 209, yeah.

[503] That's all he made.

[504] 209.

[505] Wow.

[506] Crazy.

[507] Wow.

[508] Yeah.

[509] He wasn't trying to be light either.

[510] He just, that's just what he wound up weighing.

[511] You know, I think he's one of those guys that can find your chin.

[512] Like, certain guys, like, have a weird kind of, you know, he's kind of gangly anyway, but he can, they, punches are coming from odd angles.

[513] He's got the power and everything, too, but it's more than power.

[514] It's like, he's finding your chin in there.

[515] He's got chin finding intelligence.

[516] Yeah, yeah, he's got that home -seeking missile.

[517] I mean, the fact that he dropped Tyson Fury like that in the 12th round of a fight where he was kind of getting out box other than dropping him once.

[518] but the way he hit him in that 12th round I was like god damn he knocked him out in the 12th round I look at that and I'm like to not get discouraged you know what I mean like that's some serious belief in the type of power that you got if after 12 rounds you ain't landed the shot and you can still kind of muster it up in the 12th it's as a fighter I kind of look it down like damn like that's a lot of you gotta give it to him like you gotta take a head off to him it's like he's got crazy endurance too That's the other thing.

[519] He must have a phenomenal work ethic because he's never tired and he carries that power deep into the 12th round.

[520] A lot of times guys that hit real hard like that after you get past six, seven rounds they start to fade especially in the heavyweight division but Deonté moves just as fast hits just as hard in the 12th as he does in the first.

[521] It might be something to keeping his weight too like that like you say he's only 209 pounds.

[522] He was heavier for this fight for the Dominic Brazil fight apparently he was quite a bit heavier.

[523] How much heavier do you think?

[524] I think it was 2 .30 or something.

[525] Oh, wow.

[526] Oh, okay, that's a lot of weight.

[527] Yeah.

[528] See what he weighed, uh, would, what Deontay Wilder weighed in for Dominic Brazil.

[529] I think, I think that I was kind of shocked that it was somewhere in the two -thirties, which is like a normal heavyweight.

[530] 220?

[531] 220, 23, it's okay.

[532] You know, that's not much different.

[533] Still a little bit of weight, but.

[534] Well, Tyson was 218, remember when he was in his prime?

[535] Tyson wasn't even 220.

[536] Yeah, so, I mean, I think it's, uh, it's definitely something to that, you know?

[537] Maybe, uh, that's just with their natural, uh, weight is, you know, I think it's, as I'm getting a little bit more deeper into the game, it might be something.

[538] That's why I think I'm going to stay at 170.

[539] Even from now, I think you show up healthier.

[540] And it's just, if you got that experience, if you've already been fighting a lot of heavyweights like how he has, it's not like a 265 -pound dude is going to shock them, you know what I mean?

[541] Or 240 or.

[542] Well, it's also because there's no wrestling.

[543] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[544] It's a big factor in it.

[545] Um, yeah, I think it's a giant factor.

[546] Yeah.

[547] But then again, look at Kane Velazquez.

[548] When Kane was at his prime, he was about 240.

[549] And, you know, when he fought Brock Lesnar and Brock Lesnar was quite a bit bigger than him.

[550] But it didn't matter.

[551] I mean, Kane fought a lot of guys that were bigger than him.

[552] Yeah, the wrestling is probably the biggest reason, I think.

[553] A lot of us cut weight in M .A. for sure.

[554] I mean, that's where you can feel the most weight, too.

[555] You know, when I was going against DeSanjos, it's like I didn't necessarily feel he was any stronger than me or any stronger than any 55 -pounder that I fought before.

[556] But when I kind of would have them pressed or whatever, and I could kind of feel the weight of that, you know, on my back and just carrying it.

[557] And it makes you expend more energy, too, you know?

[558] It's like fighting with a 15 -pound vest on.

[559] Yeah, exactly.

[560] When the fight was over, that's the first thing you said to me. He's like, yeah, I knew coming up to 170, just being your first fight that you was going to get tired.

[561] And I was like, you know, I was like, fuck, she could have told me that before you, son of a bitch.

[562] They don't do me no good He's got some phenomenal cardio though And also he was coming off the Usman fight And Usman outworked him So he was probably like extra geared up And Usman's bigger to me too You know And so he had already felt that And he's fought for the title at 170 He's got a lot of fights at 170 already So he's already felt that weight He's also gone through Nick Kurson's strength and conditioning routines You know he was I don't know if he's still working with Nick Kerson But Nick Kerson was a Marv -Marinovich disciple and just, they do a lot of crazy box jumps and pliometrics.

[563] You ever seen him on Instagram?

[564] No, no. Go to Speed of Sport on Instagram.

[565] I know he did a lot of work with Aaron Pico, before Pico went to Calavita.

[566] He was doing work with him.

[567] He's done a lot of work with a lot of pro fighters.

[568] I think he'd work with Joe Schilling.

[569] He's worked with a lot of guys, but wild strength and conditioning shit.

[570] A lot of plios, a lot of box jumps and a lot of crazy shit where you, you know that that calf -raise bar, and they'll do that, but with your feet, like, kick it up and down and up and down.

[571] Like, let me see.

[572] Let's see what you got there, Jamie.

[573] This is just some of the shit that he has people do.

[574] Is this dosangios?

[575] Yeah.

[576] So he was, I wonder if he was training with him for this fight, but it's a lot of this type of shit.

[577] It's a lot of explosive, pliometric shit.

[578] And his idea is that when you're in a fight, see this thing?

[579] Like, they're doing a lot of stuff with that thing, and they'll do it laying on their back with their feet as well but it's all this just explosive bouncing stuff and i mean his philosophy he doesn't ever have those guys lift weights like traditional lifting weights it's all like plios box jumps exploding jumping over hurdles that kind of shit intense intense stuff but that's the stuff that got bj pen into the best shape of his life when bj pen fought sean shirk when b j pen fought diego sanchez when he was at the top of the food chain bj was working with marinovitches and he was doing all this crazy cardio workout, which was like the missing link in BJ's arsenal.

[580] Because before, BJ's this incredibly talented guy, but then he just didn't have the same kind of work ethic in cardio.

[581] And he just gave himself to Marinovich and just like, go ahead, dude, tell me what to do.

[582] And mostly what they were doing was strength and conditioning.

[583] And they were saying, basically, BJ already knows how to fight.

[584] And the real key was to get his gas tank as fucking thick and fat as possible.

[585] Just give him this giant -ass gas tank and give him this capacity to work.

[586] work that's just unprecedented to him and then everything else he already knows how to do so everything else just do it light but don't compromise on the strength and conditioning workouts because that's the most important aspect of the sport and it's a very it's a very controversial discussion well what's most important yeah i think you need balance with it all you know uh i think so too but i used uh calvita's methods uh for this one and came down and seen a couple of times in in orange county uh what kind of stuff did you do that dude's a fucking he's a man animal yeah his workouts are brutal.

[587] His ideas are more, he takes you to exhaustion and then we do stuff like that, like the explosive stuff and different types of movements and, you know, kind of making sure that your legs are still underneath you, but he puts you on a bike and that bike workout is, it's like a 30 minute, three minutes like keeping a hard, hard pace on like a very, very high level.

[588] And, you know, he's got you strapped up with all these monitors and everything to to kind of make sure that you actually hitting your red line and then the workout starts so it's about like a three hour workout and it's draining it's brutal it's like three hours yes yes it's a you see some things going through a workout like that you know what I mean like you go to a like a dark dark play and I went through a couple of them getting ready for that fight uh where he's just taking it here and pico yeah yeah that's his garage too that's where we uh do the workout and i mean it's a brutal uh he took a lot of shit after tj tested positive for epo well shit i can see why tj needed it okay after going through some of i was like shit i see what you know like uh you know each his own and and all that uh but you know i don't put that on sam it's like you know yeah i mean tj's a grown man he's going to do what he's going to do we don't even know if he knew yeah yeah and and speaking with him and everything he had no idea he was just blindsided which is you know kind of fucked up one that's unfortunate for him too because everybody was really paying attention to how how scientifically he was designing and engineering these workouts yeah and people were really excited about it so it was a you know a bit of a backstep for him as well yeah he uh he's a smart smart dude you know i think he's a math teacher over at cal state or something like that and yep um i mean genius of a dude you sit and talk to him and like He's going to tell you exactly why he's running you through these certain things.

[589] So, you know, we picked up on his philosophies going into this one.

[590] And, you know, even though I was tired during the fight, it's a fight.

[591] You're going to be tired.

[592] I still have my legs underneath me and still could go, you know.

[593] So I don't know.

[594] I think it was more tactically than anything if I'm going back on it.

[595] But, you know.

[596] You think it's more the way you approach the pacing, the way you approach, like, as far as like the strategy of how to face dosanjos yeah what did you think was going to happen when you went into the fight i was going to break them just going to run through them like you know i think the fight before that with uh with al um i hated the way that fight went i hated the way i i i showed up for it and i and i left way too much reserved and the worst feeling for me like i don't really i hate losing i really do but i don't really get hung up on the results that much I hate not performing At your potential So if you feel like you perform To your potential And someone does better Then you're like okay That's a lesson Yeah I can learn from that And grow from it But when it's a fight And I get done with it Win -Loser or whatever And I still got a little bit in me And I still like You know you walk back to the doctor And I'm still ready to fight And I still feel that in me I hate that feeling more than anything So I wanted to make sure That I didn't get this one From this one You know And I haven't really had a fight in the UFC yet that has hit kind of where I wanted to be you know like I haven't given people have watched me grow up in the sport I feel like but it ain't really seen like a good fight out of me yet so that's kind of what I was looking for and what I was after is just Dosanjos was smart about it in world champion so but you know yeah I mean he's been around the block man and he's in a precarious situation himself right because he get dominated by the champ in his last fight and you know i mean what do you do from there i mean he beats you but where is he it's not like people are clamoring for him to fight for the title again the good thing is that at 170 is so many good fights to be at like even for me it's so many you know you got ask her and you got you got uh uh mazvodal that he's getting ready to fight uh you got ozman you got kamarro you got pettis and diaz is back and you know there's going to be a great fight for him i'm I'm pretty sure.

[597] I mean, I don't know.

[598] I don't look at it like that.

[599] No, I'm pretty sure as well.

[600] I mean, goddamn, both divisions between 55 and 70 are stacked.

[601] You were pushing for a 65.

[602] Yeah, yeah.

[603] I think it's a great idea.

[604] I still am kind of, but I know.

[605] I'm too.

[606] They just don't want to listen.

[607] Yeah.

[608] I don't see why.

[609] Change 70 to 75, change 65, 55, 45, 45, 45.

[610] It makes sense.

[611] 10 pounds makes sense.

[612] But these arbitrary, I think there should be a 95 too.

[613] How about that?

[614] that one i can see a little bit just because of how shallow 205 was getting but now you got so many great fighters at 205 even uh and you're starting to see that body type that that's coming through you know the johnny walker uh the kid that just fought uh the last last weekend and knocked out mannual yeah how do you say his name i don't know you know uh he just knocked out jimmy mannawa but he's kind of got that similar frame too as uh john jones and and you know you're starting to see more of those guys so how do you say his name name?

[615] I don't know if you retired?

[616] Yeah, Mano were retired.

[617] Just show it to me, and I'll spell it.

[618] Alexander Rockich, or Rakeach?

[619] Rackich.

[620] Yeah, Rockich.

[621] I think it's Rockich.

[622] Yeah.

[623] He's a fucking beast, man. That step in, left high kick was beautiful.

[624] Brutal.

[625] But now they're getting so many guys that they might be able to build a 95 -pound class at one point.

[626] But they could do 65 right here and now, and it'd be one of the best.

[627] Yeah, it'd be one of the best class seven.

[628] Yeah, it's almost like there's too many guys at 55 and 70.

[629] I mean, I think that, and then also, like, look at the women's flyweight division, the women's, or the women's, well, the women's flyweight division now, of course, with Schifchenko is going to fight Jessica I this weekend, but if you go back to the women's, um, uh, strawweight division, strawweight division when Yohanna was champion, everybody's like, well, there's no one there, who's going to fight her.

[630] And now it's stacked, it's stacked, it's stacked, you got Tatiana Smarez, you got Jessica Andrade, she just, just beat Thug Rose, you know, you've got, you know, so many fighters.

[631] It's like, it's a world.

[632] It's world.

[633] class division it seemed like it got better too when they added 125 you know what i mean it got it got even more because now you're seeing like the people who wouldn't get shine before now they're getting shining you're like oh like you got some serious talent in there you know and i and i feel like at 55 you got so many guys that's underneath top 25 that could could shine through you know if you just give them the the space it it also allows for for guys to like max holloway to to go up at 55 and be able to compete at his, I feel like that's more of his natural weight, too, you know, is, you get those big 45ers to go up.

[634] Having him lose the way he lost to Dustin Poir, a lot of people are saying, you know, he just doesn't have the same power at 55 that he had at 45.

[635] I just don't think he had the experience yet, you know, I don't think.

[636] At 55.

[637] Yeah, he, that was his first fight at 55.

[638] So, you know, and Dustin's already had a lot of them where even if they had both fought at 45 before, Dustin's already been there.

[639] So he, it wasn't, it's not going to be a shock to.

[640] him you know and you kind of got to just give credit to dustin how fucking good he is that too yeah like a lot of people forgot yeah yeah he was wrong the way he was rolling with punches and just barely slipping him his power and once he's moved up to 55 mean he was torturing himself to get to 45 he's a great example of a success story of a guy who stopped cutting as much weight but he's big now he's having a hard time making 55 yeah he's growing into the the weight class which max will do the same you know max is a big dude like uh so i think if you you you you if you let them compete against guys that are more his size eventually the next time that they fought I think it would look a little bit different and what do you think Khabib versus Dustin looks like because that's what they're setting out that's the next fight in Abu Dhabi I don't know I really don't know it's hard to say right yeah before the Max fight I would have for sure been like Khabi just gonna blow him out the water he's just gonna take him down he's just gonna be too big but like you said really wasn't trying to take him down the way Kabeb will it's a different it's a different fighter Yeah, but the way Dustin's footwork was looking in that, that's what makes you think about it because, you know, Khabib's kind of a one -track, one -train mile, you know, he's going to come right at you.

[641] You know he's going to do, too.

[642] But if Dustin, not even necessarily can out -wrestle him, it's just, it's way easier to play defense on wrestling than offense.

[643] And if you've got great footwork like that to keep your back off the fence, it might be a long night for Kaviv.

[644] Who knows?

[645] It's a good fight.

[646] It's a good fight.

[647] Dustin's got that serious power.

[648] Yeah, it's a good fight.

[649] Dustin can hurt you.

[650] Yeah.

[651] And he's South Paul.

[652] I think that's going to play a big factor in it.

[653] You know, it's a little harder to get in on a lot of those shots.

[654] The real key is can he stuff to take down and can he defend himself on the ground?

[655] Because with so many guys, Khabib gets a hold of them and then they develop that thousand yards stare where they're like, what in the fuck is happening?

[656] You know how it's like when me, especially I'm sure you remember early in your career when you would, would go with a guy who's just way bigger than you or way stronger than you and you just go, oh, I can't do shit.

[657] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[658] Is that I can't do shit thing.

[659] I'm just sort of surviving here.

[660] Yeah, I mean, I still try and put myself in those situations not.

[661] It's a terrible feel.

[662] Yeah, I'm rolling with Robert Drysdale or something.

[663] Oh, Jesus Christ.

[664] I'm lucky just to, I'm just counting how many times or I roll with Vinny, Magalais.

[665] And I'm like, I'm just trying my best not to get submitted.

[666] Yeah.

[667] I'm at the point where now you only go submit me one or two times you know before it was like 10 like it was like as many times he wanted to but you know like okay if i slowly pick at this and then then i'm i was so shocked he didn't win that pfl thing i was so shocked i thought he was going to win it for sure yeah yeah his striking has come so far you know it's one of us you know it's the game yep it's the game the game yeah what can you do it's a fucking crazy sport it really is the craziest sport that's ever existed and you never know even as an athlete like you can do everything to to prepare right and you feel like all the chips and like everything's in your corner and like I mean I guess it's like life it's like you think everything is just right but sometimes it's not yeah shit happens what can you do you just pick it up and yeah try it again like a mad man well you just have to accept that this is what you've chosen you know and this is part of what comes with it it's just chaos I think you just got to be crazy I think you gotta be a little like out of your fucking mind to do this 100 % But I mean I see other people In other professions And what they do And I'm like He's a little crazy too You know what I mean He's a little out of his mind To do what he's doing So maybe it's just What you Just be me You know At least you have the freedom To not be stuck in a fucking office You have an exciting life As crazy and chaotic as it is At least is exciting I'll take exciting Every day off over boring And it lets me be me You know what I mean Like that walking out for a fight or just even just getting ready for the like the week of and you know doing media and stuff like that and and just it lets me like really express myself so in a way that I never really got to as a kid or or or anything before that where that gives me like a little bit of peace and it gives me like I really don't give a fuck about nobody else or or what they're doing or what they got going on and it and it lets me like just be me and just flow with it and just have fun before I would never really let myself do that you know I would kind of always be guarded and I would kind of always be like like on edge and just not just be myself and fighting has let me let me let it out you know and not because it's so crazy because it's such a wild exchange because what you're doing is so dynamic that you could just be the full you yeah and I think everybody is is different too you know everybody fights different so so it's not one is better than the other you know it's not like it's like you just got to if you be yourself then then you're gonna do better you know what I mean like even uh even in the media and stuff like that or however you want to approach it's like if you be yourself I kind of figured it out like just be me and just enjoy it right then it's then it's better yeah as opposed to like you know when you are you know microphone in front of you there Like when you, you know, you're stuck in an office or whatever it is, or you stuck doing something that you feel like you should do or people want you to do, then you start, like, living like that almost.

[668] And I kind of have felt myself get there before I started fighting.

[669] It's like trying to live up to other people's expectations or, you know, and fighting is just like it's so carefree.

[670] You're the master of your own destiny.

[671] Yeah.

[672] Yeah.

[673] In a lot of ways.

[674] Yeah.

[675] And that's the best thing about it.

[676] Yeah.

[677] Fuck the wind Fuck the laws of money Is fun That's kind of what I got into it for it's fun But it's It's giving me a lot of Else To my life You know what I mean So Do you watch many fights outside of All the day Every day Outside of MMA Yeah Yeah I mean Do you watch like Jiu Jitsu or Muay Or I watch all Jiujitsu When it's really getting gone You know I was going to try And come out here A day before And try and see worlds you know it depends but yeah i try yeah it's um it's interesting when you see how good people are at those individual disciplines you know that's uh it's one of the more interesting aspects about m ms is that you really can't be the best in the world at everything and you're gonna have because it's such a complex sport yeah you can try you certainly can you certainly can but you're right though i think uh a lot of a lot of these other sports and stuff, they've had so many years just to figure out what works and what don't work that they've really refined the process.

[678] You know what I mean?

[679] Like you see some of these high, high level boxers and it's like, they've had, you know, you talk about somebody like Floyd, he's had his dad fight and his uncle fight before him to where he's like refined the process so much that it's damn near perfect.

[680] You know what I mean?

[681] We haven't got to that point yet, Nibem.

[682] No. It's going to be a while.

[683] not even close I don't know if he'll ever get there because it seems like it's because it's a combination of so many different disciplines it's it just doesn't seem like you're ever going to see a guy who is world class moitai and world class jujitsu and world class wrestling all in one fighter it just doesn't seem like that's really possible I think you can get it in a couple more generations though you think so maybe like four more generations something like that like because it's I look at the kids now that are coming up and they don't have the same like preconceptions that even I had coming up in it, you know, like where if you're boxing, you're boxing this way and, you know, this is the right thing to do, this is the wrong thing to do, you know?

[684] Or you're taking so many things and you're not really, you're kind of stuck on it, you know what I mean?

[685] And I feel like each generation is getting a little bit better, a little bit better.

[686] I look at some of the things that kids do now.

[687] I'm like, fuck, like, I wish I could be that free and just kind of have that creative process to do it, you know.

[688] It's going to happen eventually, I think.

[689] Yeah, with little kids that are starting off, like little amateur fights when they're like 10 years old and shit.

[690] Yeah.

[691] So then I think about his kid, you know, and what's his kid going to look like?

[692] And then, okay, then what's his kid going to look like to where you will get somebody who is just perfect at whatever.

[693] they do.

[694] That's a good point because it really is a big factor that Floyd had his dad who was a world class fighter.

[695] It's huge.

[696] Sugar Ray Leonard and his uncle Roger was the Black Mamba.

[697] Roger Mayweather was the fucking man back in the 80s to see those two guys training him.

[698] That is gigantic.

[699] Grown up in that environment always been around boxing.

[700] And they could tell them what to do and what not to do even when you get to that certain level, you know, it's like you don't know what you don't know until it's too late almost but you know he had people that he really respected like is i mean you your uncle and your and your your pops they're going to be the first people that you respect and you got to listen to him yeah so i think it played a huge factor that people don't really look at i think so too and it's also seeing the mistakes that other fighters have made when you're growing up in the gym you're seeing guys that spar too hard or seeing guys that get hit too much or seeing guys that take the wrong fights or seeing guys that don't fight smart defensively you know And one of the things that people forget is that Floyd went through a big transition of his own.

[701] If you go back to the early parts of his career and you watch when he was Pretty Boy Floyd, he was a much more aggressive fighter and he would put himself in danger much more.

[702] And then when he became Money Mayweather, like as it got later and later in his life, he just got so much more brilliant defensively.

[703] And then he became the guy that you see shutting out Canelo -Avarez, stopping all these guys, just shutting everything down.

[704] He just became this defensive wizard to the point where you'd see world -class fighters like Sugar Shane Mosley, who did tag him.

[705] But other than that, once he recovered, he didn't really know what to do with Floyd.

[706] Floyd just had the answers to his style.

[707] He had figured him out.

[708] Yeah, and I even see a lot of people, because I go by his gym from time to time, you know, and I see like a lot of people that are coming up in boxing who just want to write out the gate be what Floyd is now.

[709] you know what I mean be on the ropes and be able to slip punches and you know and but they forget like the time when he beat the fuck out of Arturo Gotti you know to the you know and was no defense to it he just came out and was throwing hands like they forget all the like amateur fights that he had before that that he's won and lost and you know he just had a different style of fighting so it's it takes time to get to that that level you know what I mean certain people don't get there was brutal oh brutal yeah yeah he's he's a monster he's a monster I give him a lot of respect.

[710] I do.

[711] You know, I mean, not a lot of people do, but...

[712] They're crazy.

[713] The man's just being him.

[714] Well, he talks a lot of shit, but you got to separate that from what he does.

[715] Yeah, I mean...

[716] When you watch him fight, the guy is defensively spectacular.

[717] Yeah.

[718] He knows exactly...

[719] When you watch the Canella fight, I've watched a Canel fight at least three times.

[720] And when you watch him stand in front of Canello, Canello throws a left, he's over here, he throws a right, he's over here.

[721] Pop, take that jab with you.

[722] Yeah.

[723] Oh, and I'm back here now.

[724] And Canello's like just whiffing, just throwing punches.

[725] You can see the look in his face like, God damn, I'm in here with a master.

[726] This is a master boxer, and I'm learning a lesson here.

[727] You know, the good thing is, you know, he learned that lesson the right way.

[728] And I look at him.

[729] Yeah.

[730] And Conello's a monster.

[731] Dude.

[732] And a monster defensively, too.

[733] You know, you see some of his defense now, and even me, like, I look at his headmoving.

[734] I'm like, God, damn.

[735] You know, he's against Danny Jacobs just a little while ago.

[736] Like, his head movement was just on point.

[737] That was a great fight because Danny Jacobs is a fucking killer.

[738] Yeah, and I was pulling for Jacobs, but I had to give it to Canelo.

[739] I'm like, he really took what he learned from Floyd and, you know, sometimes you need that, you know.

[740] Even like how you said me and Georgia are kind of similar, I try to pick a fight with a man. Like, I wanted to fight him.

[741] Of course.

[742] Just because going into it, I was like, hey, win, loser draw, I'm going to learn something from this motherfucker.

[743] For one, he going to know he was in a fight I'm going to show up I'm going to give him everything I got But I knew just for the future I'm like that A fight like that is just going to propel you It's just going to get better You know you I think he's going to want to fight in Khabib Probably I think so That's what I think I think if Dustin Porrier If Kib beats Dustin Poirier Kube is going to lobby for a fight with George Yeah That's what I think.

[744] And I think if Kabib beats George, I think he's going to retire.

[745] That's what I think.

[746] I think Khabib only has a few more fights left in him.

[747] I don't think he necessarily wants a fight for a long time.

[748] I think you're right.

[749] He's undefeated.

[750] He smashes everybody.

[751] Yeah.

[752] You know, and I think he'll go down as one of the greatest that ever did it.

[753] If he beats George.

[754] If he beats George.

[755] If he can even get George in there.

[756] I mean.

[757] If he could even get George in there.

[758] I mean, who the fuck knows if that could ever play out.

[759] Yeah.

[760] I mean, I want that date with him.

[761] But we'll see how that whole thing will play out.

[762] It also, for the UFC, it wouldn't be for a title, which is a problem, apparently.

[763] When they have a problem with, like, selling pay -per -views, one of the big problems is, and this is why, look, everybody goes, why do they have interim titles?

[764] The reason why they have interim titles is because people see that title, and they fucking, they click that pay -per -view when they might not.

[765] That's real.

[766] It makes, it's a big factor.

[767] And it plays into your mindset as a fighter, too, you know?

[768] Yes.

[769] And so George would have to come back.

[770] I mean someone would have to beat usma or they could do 165 you know I'm just saying Dana said on the record this is that doesn't mean that much because Dana's also said that women would never fight in the UFC but Dana said on record there won't be a 165 while he's working there we hear him I don't hear him I don't like that thinking I hear him though but you know I don't get it I don't know why they won't want to have more weight classes yeah I don't get it You can make the Kabib and George fight and it'd be nothing.

[771] Every time down.

[772] And George wants that fight too, you know, even just to say how, I mean, you're a cool motherfucker, but George even more.

[773] So I tried to pick a fight with him and like, you know, for real.

[774] And he called me and we talked for like over an hour.

[775] And he was like, he explained it to me. He's like, listen, I, listen, I cannot fight you right now.

[776] I have to do gymnastics.

[777] I can't do the accent I can only do it if I talked to him recently If I haven't talked to him recently It goes away, I forget it But he told me he was interesting Kevin Lee is a great fighter But I am a better fighter than him And I feel it You know, listen I feel it There's risk and reward, you know what I mean?

[778] Sure I'm the type of I just like taking a big risk You know, more than anything But George is where you hope you are 10 years from now George is 36 years old Sure Is he 36 or 37?

[779] he's in that range he's 36 37 years old you know he's he did it all did it all you know he's now he's in the position where he's just trying to get them big fights oh shit yeah see he ain't got much time yeah no I feel it and even when he was explaining to me like I was like man I really can't hate you for this like you you know you kept it like as straight as possible he's like you know it's just too much risk and you know it's like for what I'm sorry I get it I get it bro make your money look I ain't gonna hate It's cool that he called you though You know I try still And I think he got it too He was like you know I get with He's a brilliant guy I try When you see and talk to him And just the way he breaks down life The way he's thinking about life He's thinking about it very smart Very smart That's why when he won the title I was like yeah I'm good You could take it Take that title I beat Michael Bisping And I'm gonna just Ride off into the sunset here For a little bit And be in a holding pattern And wait for the next big one To come around the next big challenge i feel it i mean there's so much more to life too you know i mean like so big like even even for me like i'm done it's only one part of me you know i mean it's the best part i think personally i feel like but you know there's this it's still so much more that i want to do and accomplish and get done you know the biggest problem with fighters though is that fighting is so crazy and so wild and spectacular and the highs and the lows finding whatever it is when you say there's so much more to life finding that so much more to life is so difficult for so many fighters yeah and i think it's keeping your brain too yeah that's that might be the you know i don't know i ain't nowhere close to that point to start thinking about it but i'm like but it's hard to know when you're at that point right right right until it's too late also fighters are like the reason why you think you could beat everybody in the world is the same thing that's going to get you fucked when you think that you could still go again you know I mean that's what got Chuck Ladell in trouble when he fought Tito Ortiz most of us that were watching the outside like please don't fight him please don't fight anybody yeah when Chuck's talking about fighting John Jones like oh good Lord please don't do that because he's like you know I think I can get back in there with John Jones like Jesus like Chuck but that is why he became Chuck Ladell in the first place because he's get that unstoppable belief in himself but there needs to be balance There needs to be balanced You can do anything you believe in That is horse shit Anybody tells you to do anything you believe in That is horses shit You know There's certain people that will fuck you up Yeah yeah yeah You gotta be smart about it Yeah you gotta be smart Yes But I do think you can still do things That you don't necessarily even Know that you can do you know Like I look at it now I'm like man I never thought that I would truly be like a professional fighter And be able to live And support my family off this So I'm like, you know, 20 years from now, how did that look?

[780] I have no idea what it might look like.

[781] I have no idea what else I could possibly do.

[782] You could do anything.

[783] I firmly absolutely believe that.

[784] It's just whether or not you dedicate yourself to it the same way you dedicate yourself to fighting.

[785] Right, right.

[786] Yeah, I think anybody that can be a professional fighter at the highest level, that is an incredible juggling act of mind and body and discipline and technique and knowledge.

[787] understanding of the past and recognizing traps and, and intuition, no one when to strike, no one when to back off, no one to push, knowing when to coast.

[788] It's just, that's a mad fucking race.

[789] I mean, what you're doing when you're fighting is the most chaotic thing in all of sport.

[790] And if you could succeed at that at the highest level, I really believe you can do anything.

[791] I really believe that.

[792] Yeah, and I think it takes a lot of, I think it takes a lot more brainpower than people kind of give it credit for you know and i think that's a big reason why you see guys on the decline too you know uh and i i think it's something that not a lot of people look at you know you kind of see it and you're like oh this guy's just out of his athletic prime or he's out of you know he's out of shape or whatever but really when you look at him you're like they don't be that much more worn physically you know maybe certain guys go through like certain injuries and get surgeries and stuff and it's just not as strong as it was when he were 25 right i get that but but But I feel like fighting in particular, it's so much more thinking power and you've got to be quick and maybe it's like the damage that they're taken to their actual brain.

[793] Like they aren't processing information the same way.

[794] Not only is it physical, but it's like it only takes one slip up at the top level for a guy to catch you.

[795] So, you know, if your brain just that synaps ain't working perfectly right, it's like that lights out.

[796] And everybody looks at it's like, oh, well, he's just out of shape.

[797] He's just getting old and stuff like that.

[798] But it might be something like, you're taking brain damage in there, you know?

[799] Yes, yes.

[800] And I think there's something that happens to fighters when they lose that belief that they can be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

[801] And that does happen with some fighters.

[802] They get a few losses and then they settle into that journeyman's position.

[803] And, you know, that's what Gustafson just said when he retired.

[804] He said, I don't want to be a journeyman.

[805] You know, that journeyman position is a weird position.

[806] Because, you know, you want to get in shape to win to beat this guy, but you kind of know that you'll never be the man. Yeah, yeah.

[807] You know, like say if you're a guy who's in that 205 -pound division and you just keep losing, and then you see John Jones, who's the greatest of all time, just fucking everybody up.

[808] And you know you can't beat him.

[809] So you're training.

[810] Even when you're hitting the bag and running and all that stuff, you know John Jones fucked you up twice.

[811] And you know you can't beat him.

[812] You know you can't beat him.

[813] that keeps a lot of guys from having the same enthusiasm and passion that they had when they were 22 and they thought they could take on the world and they pictured themselves on the cover of Fighters Only magazine the greatest of all time.

[814] Everybody has these ideas of who they can be.

[815] But when that idea has been shattered and now you're just a really good fighter, some fighters just lose their enthusiasm for the game.

[816] And then there's Diego Sanchez who doesn't seem to give a fuck about any of that and just there to wreck people.

[817] You know what?

[818] He's going backwards in time.

[819] That's a good point.

[820] His clock has turned it backwards.

[821] But I think it's because he focuses on himself.

[822] You know what I mean?

[823] He don't.

[824] Diego's out of his mind, for sure.

[825] For sure.

[826] But maybe he's into his mind.

[827] You know what I mean?

[828] Maybe he's just so, like, focused on himself.

[829] And, you know, even if you can't, you know, if you're looking at John and you're like, man, I ain't never going to catch up to that level.

[830] I'm just not going to be that.

[831] Right.

[832] Then, yeah, that can really like, like you said, like start to, to, to, really, like, discourage you a lot.

[833] But then if you're just like, okay, I'm better than today than I was yesterday.

[834] And, you know, my jab's like a little, it's not as straight as it could be.

[835] So let me just work on that and just pick the next thing and just keep constantly going to that.

[836] I feel like that's what real champions do.

[837] You know, they don't necessarily look at, you know, the other person.

[838] And Diego, you know, even if he ain't got the belt, he's still in his head.

[839] Like, that's maybe how you're thinking of it.

[840] I don't know.

[841] You had to talk to him.

[842] He seemed like a crazy dude, bro.

[843] You need to be crazy, though, to do this shit.

[844] You got to be crazy, bro.

[845] There's all different kinds of crazy, right?

[846] Yeah.

[847] You know, I mean, when I saw Diego Mall, Mickey Gall, I was like, God damn, look at this guy.

[848] Yeah, yeah.

[849] He just has lost no enthusiasm.

[850] Zero loss and enthusiasm after all these years of fighting.

[851] You got to realize that guy won the Ultimate Fighter Season 1 in 2004.

[852] We are now here I was in ninth grade 14 years later No I was in eighth grade 2005 I wasn't even at high school yet Jesus 2005 He's crazy He beat Kenny Florian in the finals Kenny's long since retired You think of all the people he beat Long since retired It gives you hope a little bit You know what I mean When he does all that Somebody else has done it So it can be done.

[853] I think he's just, you know, into his own head and just like is constantly getting better and that's really what the game is about anyway.

[854] Remember when he used to walk to the octagon screaming, yes?

[855] Yes.

[856] Yes!

[857] Yes!

[858] I would love it.

[859] He's so fucking crazy.

[860] In the best way.

[861] Yeah, yeah, he's out of his mind.

[862] He's still one of my favorite guys to watch.

[863] Yeah, for sure.

[864] For sure.

[865] I mean, there's a couple guys like that that kind of keep that same longevity.

[866] So, you know, you You got to look at the past and kind of learn from other people's mistakes and, you know, see, okay, how was this guy thinking like that?

[867] You know, when you look at Gusses and you're like, he really didn't want to be a journeyman.

[868] I had already lost to the two guys holding the title.

[869] So you look at that and you're like, man, you're kind of comparing yourself to them a little bit too much, you know?

[870] Like, yeah, you fought them and the result wasn't what you wanted, but it's like, okay, that's just the game.

[871] I think it's also He lives in Switzerland Or Sweden, sorry It's fucking beautiful up there And you're like You're probably sitting back He probably hunts and you know Has a full life and everything So you're like Man, why am I doing this shit?

[872] I'm about to go back out in front of My whole country And fight another person Like come on The last time he, well the first time he fought In front of his whole country Was when he got knocked out by Rumble Yeah Rumble's the dude Where I look back at guys that kind of left the sport and I was like I get it he's been fighting for a long time he was wrestling before that he didn't want to do it anymore I get it he'll come back but this I don't know about it now man but the selfish part of me wanted to see Rumble get it together and fight for a title yeah again me not just fight when he fought a DC but he gonna have to do it a heavyway now he's so big I don't think it's a bad idea for him to fight it heavyway remember when he fucked up Barlovsky in heavyweight when he was in the, before the PFL was the PFL, what was it called?

[873] World Series.

[874] World Series fighting, yeah.

[875] Dude, he's a murderous striker, murderous.

[876] You know, and the heavyweight division is actually a very good division for Rumble, if you really think about it.

[877] With his speed and power, first of all, he hits so fucking hard.

[878] It doesn't matter if someone's a heavyweight, light heavyweight.

[879] It doesn't matter.

[880] The way he clips people, it's like, Jesus.

[881] I mean, there's a lot of good fights I were watching me, you know?

[882] Him and Francis would be one, wouldn't it?

[883] Oh, my goodness.

[884] They're both the type of guys.

[885] Like, Francis is another one.

[886] Like, he can just find your chin.

[887] Yep.

[888] And it's like, I've moved around with him a couple of times.

[889] And, you know, you moved around with Francis?

[890] I'd do some wild shit, bro.

[891] Ooh, dude.

[892] Yeah, I mean, is he gentle in sparsely?

[893] No, he's cool.

[894] He's cool.

[895] He moved around with, like, little kids sometimes.

[896] Wow.

[897] Yeah, he's like a gentle giant.

[898] You know what I mean?

[899] Most guys that you kind of see like that, you kind of realize like, oh, you know, you're a big -ass teddy bear.

[900] Now, if you signed up and say I can beat you, you see it a different side of them.

[901] But what the most part, he was the coolest dude in the world.

[902] That if he decided to go into pro boxing instead of MMA when he first started out, he could be a world champion right now.

[903] Absolutely.

[904] And like I say, just moving around with him, he's got like these weird ways of like this, the punch just comes at such an odd angle, but it's like clean.

[905] And it's like, oh, damn, like, okay, I see what you're doing.

[906] You know what I mean?

[907] I see what it is.

[908] I mean, that's the only reason why I move around with a guy like that is to try to figure it out a little bit.

[909] But there's certain things you just can't teach a person.

[910] And he's kind of got that, you know, he's got that killer instinct.

[911] Heets sinking missile.

[912] You can't teach that no matter how much you want to hit pads or whatever.

[913] Like, sometimes it's in there, you know.

[914] he's a fascinating story too because after he lost to stepe you know i think he was absolutely convinced he was going to knock stepe out and be the world champion he thought he was unbeatable stepe just shattered his confidence and then he had that crazy fight with derrick where he was just like super tentative didn't even pull the trigger just like and he admitted he said i carried the fear of my last fight into the cage with me and then he came out and starched curtis blades you know and and then he came out and uh starched cane after that like okay he's back yeah i think it took took him some time to kind of get it back yeah yeah to to understand what what it is and what's going on you know and to learn from it too you know uh he he's so strong -willed and you know and he's like kind of got a different culture too you know coming from africa and in paris and everything so when you talk to him i mean he's super smart dude super smart but uh he's kind of like me a little bit where it can be hard to get through that get through the head you know what i mean like Like, I mean, I admit it.

[915] You know, I'm a little stubborn sometimes, and I think he is, too, a little bit.

[916] So it can be hard for lessons to really sink in there.

[917] But I feel like now, like, he's one of those guys where, yeah, you can see it's, like, coming together for him.

[918] Is he doing his camps in France now?

[919] No, he's been over in Vegas.

[920] They did one of his camps in France.

[921] Yeah, he did his last camp.

[922] Yeah.

[923] That fight?

[924] Yeah.

[925] I'm not sure where he's doing his next camp or anything.

[926] I don't know.

[927] He's doing a lot of it at the Performance Institute, right?

[928] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[929] Is he getting good wrestling?

[930] Because that's really the thing that was exposed in the steep fight, right?

[931] He comes over to extreme, and, you know, he'll wrestle with us a lot.

[932] You know, the problem is just heavyweights, you know, it's not a lot of the bigger dudes.

[933] And he's intimidating, too.

[934] So when I sit back and I'll be watching them move around with certain guys, like you can tell, like, they'd be scared, you know what I mean?

[935] I don't blame him.

[936] I don't blame him, bro.

[937] I don't blame him, though.

[938] Dude, he scares me when he's on the other side.

[939] side of the cage.

[940] Yeah, yeah.

[941] I'm outside the cage and he scares me. I've wrestled with him a couple times.

[942] I really don't really give a fuck, but he's just so big.

[943] It's hard, bro.

[944] It's like, I'm trying to get it.

[945] You know, I do my thing.

[946] I try.

[947] I'm a strong guy.

[948] I hold my own.

[949] Well, the heavyweight division is very interesting right now because I think a lot of people are sleeping on Stepe.

[950] And I know D .C. clocked him and knocked him out in that first fight, but I think Stipe is going to want to come back to the second fight with a vengeance, man. And, I mean, he was the most successful heavyweight champion of all time.

[951] And he loses the fight, loses his title, can't get anyone to pay attention to him.

[952] All everyone is talking about, Brock Lesnar, D .C., he's going to fight.

[953] He's like, Brock Lester doesn't even fight.

[954] He's doing fucking WWE.

[955] Like, what is this shit?

[956] He goes, I am the most successful of all time.

[957] I'm the only got to defend the title four times.

[958] I lose one fight to a fantastic fighter and I can't get a fucking rematch.

[959] Like, what is this about?

[960] And then finally, there's no one left in the division.

[961] vision who else is he got he's got to fight him yeah that i mean that played out perfect for him and i'm so glad to see it too like stepe is one of the coolest dudes and so cool in the world bro and it's like what more do you have to do you know i mean like sometimes i get sick of of just the way things are like i don't blame it on the ufc i don't blame it on on on anything it's just sometimes that's just the way things are it's just the way people are to where like they they want to see like you act of food they want to see that controversy and they want they want to see the negativity all the time and it's like man it's it's like a dude like stepe if stepe can't get no love and he's like a firefighter like legitimately saving lives on a daily basis while like training to death and being a world champion at it it's like man if a dude like that can't get no love i don't stand a chance bro but you know i'm happy to see things are always going to work out the way they're supposed to work out you know what i mean i guess but i just felt like the marketing of him could have been so much better that was my feeling on it's like how do you miss out on this hero yeah i mean maybe a guy super exciting i think it's just american culture maybe because you see like one fc doesn't necessarily be the same way you know and they're still doing great i mean time will tell how great they really do uh but but their way of of marketing and a guy and promoting them and everything is just so much different it's like does that work in america is the problem it's like people only want to see what they want to see like even about me you know like people see me kind of hit kiesa at the press conference and then that's all they really know about me so that's all they really you know they think that's me or or they they even read wrong into that type of situation and they just think that's how you is but did you ever talk to kessa after your fight with him you guys cool he's cool he's still mad at him oh he's pissed still because of the choke no i think he's just mad a way to the whole situation.

[962] Well, it's also the choke.

[963] I mean, it's almost like he would have been better off if he went to sleep.

[964] Yeah, but he knew.

[965] I mean, he even said it.

[966] It's like, yeah, I mean, I mean, he's mad that the fight went down the way, you know, young glassed around.

[967] But I think he's more mad still that I hit him.

[968] The problem was it was so locked in to stop it right there.

[969] Like, let him go out.

[970] Let him tap or go out.

[971] Yeah, but the thing is, it's defend yourself.

[972] Yeah, but you don't stop a choke.

[973] You don't stop a choke.

[974] If the guy's awake, you don't stop a choke.

[975] That's true.

[976] That's true.

[977] I mean, there's been a couple situations where, you know, that'll kind of happen, and the guy will stop defending himself, and the ref will stop it.

[978] And the refs do tell you, they're like, if you stop defending yourself, then, you know, what else is they to do?

[979] I mean, yeah, they could have just let me choke him out, and it had been a little easier.

[980] But for us, as competitors, we kind of know.

[981] You know, I think he just was more upset.

[982] That it didn't go his way.

[983] Yeah, that it didn't go his way in.

[984] And that I hit him.

[985] But look, people even rewronged into that into that kind of situation.

[986] Like, I'm a cool dude.

[987] Like, I mean, I don't mean to say it like that, but I'm always going to give respect to everybody.

[988] You know, that's just the way I kind of am.

[989] Until you kind of diminish that respect for me, then, you know, I'm going to give it to you.

[990] So I was talking a little bit to him, you know, and I'm kind of, you know, I'm up there.

[991] I'm having fun.

[992] It's my first big press conference.

[993] Like, I'm having fun at it.

[994] But the minute that he got up and ran across the towards me, it's like there's this dividing line almost.

[995] It's like as soon as you step over that, you're in my space now.

[996] It's too close.

[997] You can't let him hit you.

[998] Yeah, I'm going to hit you first.

[999] That's just the way I, you know.

[1000] Well, you also, you're in a defensive position.

[1001] Like, you have to hit him almost.

[1002] Yeah, yeah.

[1003] Once someone comes at you and they're right there, like, oh, this is a fight.

[1004] Yeah, it's a fight.

[1005] I mean, that's just the way I grew up, you know, is anytime in these bodies, somebody is gonna invade your space like you're not gonna wait like i'm not gonna sit there and see what he wants to talk about you guys could rematch sometime at 170 nobody's at 170 it's very possible that's very possible a lot of good fights well he was another guy that had a real hard time making that way he's a big fella yeah yeah i mean big old back on him and for me it's like i've always just wanted a fair fight so you know uh we can weigh in at whatever you know it's it's even with me and dos angios i was saying you know let's weigh in at 165 and just kind of of shuddy hand he didn't want to do it but i'm like i just want a fair fight out of the deal you know it's whatever you want to weigh in we can wait so you guys want to shake hands to fight it to wait in at 165 just to show that this weight class is a viable weight class i tried to you wouldn't do it yeah he said uh i don't make uh agreements with my opponents and i was like come on you know like this is our problem in the first place this is why i ain't no union or nothing you know what i mean like everybody's like against each other like come on bro we fighting anyway what do you think about the idea of a union i mean i think it's i think it's inevitable you know i think yeah i think eventually it's it's going to happen um how would it happen i think it's once the ufc the ufc is going to change a little bit i feel like it's it's just the same way that i'm kind of looking at the way that facebook has been doing stuff and in all these other companies like these large private companies but they're so big and it's it's like the UFC is a sports organization you know what I mean but it's it's so big now to where like it's I mean it's damn near a sport it's like it's damn near public you know so I think once that kind of changes and people like once they open up the books and like people really start to pay attention to it then maybe somebody on the outside who's way smarter than any one of us or you You know, because we're fighting.

[1006] We ain't really worried about the legalities of it.

[1007] And, you know, I'm just signing a contract.

[1008] I don't really give a fuck.

[1009] But once somebody who's smarter kind of takes a look at it and see what's going on and how it is, then they're going to start up something.

[1010] I mean, they have to.

[1011] I wonder.

[1012] I think it would take some sort of crazy lawsuit, I would imagine.

[1013] But I think that fighters are individuals in that they think of themselves.

[1014] And that if, like, if you say, hey, I'm going to join these.

[1015] Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

[1016] If you say, hey, I'm going to join the union, you know, I'm going to sit out until you guys meet the demands of the union.

[1017] And they go, oh, that's great.

[1018] Kobe Covington is going to take your place.

[1019] Now he's going to fight for the title.

[1020] And then you're like, what the fuck?

[1021] And then you call Dana, hey, man, I changed my mind.

[1022] Fuck that union.

[1023] I'm with you guys.

[1024] And then that's how it goes.

[1025] I mean, yeah, yeah.

[1026] But it's kind of a shame on our part, almost.

[1027] It's like, it's the same way as I say, let's meet at 165.

[1028] is like we already don't have a lot of leverage bro like we you know yeah there's only so many things that we could even do i understand dosanjo still he's like fuck we're gonna fight anyway i don't want to cut that extra five pounds i get it and i didn't do it either i'm like bro i'm already you know you've already fought at 170 i'm already taking a loss year i'm like i'm not gonna you know give you too many advantages here but but do you have seed do they feel like they treat you well yeah i mean like you obviously you're in their good graces yeah i honestly i have no real like complaints about it, you know, it's, it's, I know what I'm, I'm signing the line, you know what I mean, I know what I'm signing up for.

[1029] And anytime I do, and I say I'm going to do something, I'm always going to make sure I hold up my end and I'm going to do it.

[1030] Um, and it's afforded me so much to, to where my life is so much different than I thought it would be.

[1031] Like, I, I, I truly thought that, that everything would just look different, you know, and I've provided a better life for my family, like my, my mom, my dad, and my brothers, like, well my one brother at least um but you know it's just afforded me so much that any like negatives on it like i can't really it's just like grievances almost yeah no i understand i understand what you're saying have you ever been approached by other organizations uh before getting into the ufc yeah um then i mean maybe a little bit here and there but you know like when you see guys like sage northcut go over to one fc and eddie alvarez and mighty mouse johnson I mean, it's all good for the sport in general.

[1032] You know, I think even the UFC sees that, like, competition is always good.

[1033] You know, it's just building even more and bigger and better.

[1034] And it's really the sport that we're looking after.

[1035] So if, I mean, I'm been in a contract with the UFC for a long while now.

[1036] But, you know, if another organization was to ever, you never know what the, you know, I never know what the future go home.

[1037] Like, what would have Ballotaur really blows up?

[1038] No. They change their name.

[1039] I mean, no, I...

[1040] That name's a goddamn anchor.

[1041] Yeah, it's true.

[1042] Allotor.

[1043] What does that mean?

[1044] Yeah, kind of.

[1045] You got a bowling ball, metal bowling ball around your neck.

[1046] Yeah, kind of.

[1047] I mean, I don't know.

[1048] For me, I'm getting that.

[1049] UFC is where it's at.

[1050] 100%.

[1051] You don't want it to be too many organizations either.

[1052] You know what I mean?

[1053] Right.

[1054] Then it's like WBC, WBA with boxing.

[1055] You can't get them to fight.

[1056] It's like, that's terrible.

[1057] That's right.

[1058] I don't want to be a part of that, you know?

[1059] That's kind of a problem now.

[1060] I mean, with Douglas Lima, Douglas Lima's world -class fighter you know, Rory McDonald's, world -class fighter.

[1061] These guys are world champion caliber.

[1062] Rory McDonald could absolutely be a world champion in the UFC.

[1063] You mean, he beat Tyron Woodley.

[1064] Yeah, I mean, I think I want to be a part of keeping it all together, too.

[1065] You know what I mean?

[1066] I'm not going to be selfish and be like, oh, well, one's going to pay me way more money, so I'm going to go over there and do that.

[1067] I'm a huge fan of the sport in general, too, so I want to see the sport do good, and having us all under one roof definitely does help.

[1068] It's also being a UFC champion just for, fucking means more.

[1069] Way more.

[1070] It just means way more.

[1071] Way more.

[1072] And I'm gonna do it.

[1073] Yeah.

[1074] You find out of guys a Belator champion, like, congratulations.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] You find out of guys a UFC champion, like, oh, shit.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] Yeah, that's a different level.

[1079] And I would even want to keep that integrity about it, you know?

[1080] And just for myself, you know what I mean?

[1081] To, you know, just to know that's what you did.

[1082] You said you're going to do it?

[1083] Like, that's what you did.

[1084] I think there's a wake -up call then when guys are going over and fighting in these other organizations, they're realizing now.

[1085] man, they are world -class fighters that you don't know about over in one FC in particular.

[1086] Like Timothy Natsiukin, the guy that knocked out Eddie Alvarez, that motherfucker's world -class.

[1087] He's dangerous.

[1088] He's dangerous.

[1089] You've got to treat everybody with the same, you know.

[1090] It's different world.

[1091] Yeah, it's different, but it's still like, dude will knock you out.

[1092] Oh, yeah.

[1093] I mean, it's a different world now.

[1094] I'm saying that, like, you go over to these other organizations.

[1095] It's not a cakewalk.

[1096] Yeah.

[1097] They're just as, hard and just as dangerous as UFC fighters.

[1098] You know, when Sage fought, you saw the Sage result, that Cosmo Alexander guy that he fought, like, that guy's a beast, man. Yeah, and I'm off taking big risk.

[1099] I really am and trying to take the biggest, hardest fight that you can, but somebody like that was like, somebody should have probably got in Sage year and was like, hey, listen, like, this dude's a legit world champion kickboxer.

[1100] You know, I just fought Nikki Holskine.

[1101] you know that's a huge level of of uh experience that you're talking about coming from fighting somebody like zach ottawa to you know he's like that's a huge jump you know that's the grand canyon with a scooter yeah yeah yes it's just yeah sometimes the biggest risk ain't necessarily like the smartest either you know yeah like you can legit get hurt in this sport like it's it's a sport but it's real life too like you you can legit get hurt you can lose your life so yes you know i agree and also particularly because sage is not a wrestler yeah you know so he's gonna stand stand up with this dude with four ounce gloves on and had never fought in a ring before i don't at least i don't think i mean i don't know but when you watch that fight and you see the way he was moving it's like he didn't expect that punch to come he didn't expect him to be able to cut him off like that when you look at a ring i mean it's it's it's a it's a 180 degrees right there so you only have one way to move never moved that way you know yes that's a really good point actually i didn't even consider that whoever is you know his coaches should have been like listen like we need to work our way up there you know what i mean or yeah or uh i think they might have had a false misconception of going over to one and one treating them real good and they're going to give you a good fight so you know they're going to build you i think one is signing guys to be like we got some legit talent over here we're going to sign you you're going to make your money but you're going to have to earn that money yeah I mean it's not like they threw them right to the top champions either it's like they threw them to a world -class fighter that they look they've got world -class talent over there they really do and so does Bella Tornell you know I feel like Douglas Lima is as good as any 170 pounder in the world we just knocked out Michael Venom page like holy shit brutal too holy shit Gagard Musassi is absolutely Absolutely one of the best 185 pounders in the world.

[1102] You know, I mean, he's as world class as they get.

[1103] Yeah, and there's so much talent, like, you do need to keep it all under one umbrella, though, I think.

[1104] You know, as a fan of the sport.

[1105] And it's better for those fighters, too, you know.

[1106] Like, I'm a competitor, so I want to compete against the best of the best.

[1107] I don't want, like, a bunch of, you know, like where it's boxing where, you know, you can't make two fights happen.

[1108] And because of this promoter doesn't work with this promoter.

[1109] and you've got to go through three, four years of, and the whole time a guy like Joshua was kind of sitting back and like, man, I don't know, I don't get to fight these guys.

[1110] So I really don't know how good I am or something.

[1111] Whereas instead, let's just go out there and compete and lay the chips out and wherever they fall is where they're going to fall.

[1112] You only get to be able to do that if everything's under one roof.

[1113] Yeah, I'm really enthusiastic and hopeful about this ESPN deal too because I think that's going to expose a lot more people to the sport because there's so many people that are just casual sports fans that always have the TV on ESPN.

[1114] I mean, that is America's network for sports.

[1115] And they're good, too.

[1116] They're good.

[1117] Like working with them for this last fight and getting ready to do the build -up and everything and just seeing the way that they do certain things.

[1118] There's like, there's no fat on it.

[1119] You know, there's no lag.

[1120] There's no delays.

[1121] There's no, you know, it's just every, Everybody's just on top of their game.

[1122] Like, they're real professionals at it.

[1123] Beautiful.

[1124] Yeah, I think it's...

[1125] I love hearing that.

[1126] Yeah, I think it's going to be big for the sport.

[1127] I've been very impressed with their promotion, too, the way they promote things, where they put things together.

[1128] Even the way they handle social media, it's a notch up.

[1129] And you can tell, like, that they just have so much experience in sports.

[1130] I mean, they're forever, right?

[1131] I mean, they're the leaders forever.

[1132] It's beautiful.

[1133] I think, you know, social media is going to probably be the last little leg up that, because Because our sport is live and died on it almost.

[1134] And that's going to be like, I've been shined away from it.

[1135] Like, I don't really fuck with it like that no more.

[1136] Just because I don't think it's right, you know what I mean?

[1137] I think eventually it's going to change and it's going to get to be way better.

[1138] And then once that happens, like, then the sport really, like, shoot off.

[1139] What do you mean?

[1140] Like, in what way?

[1141] What don't you think is right about it?

[1142] I just don't like, you know, I haven't been getting on it lately just because for me it was like, I started noticing that it was changing my outlook on things.

[1143] Like, it was like I was almost doing stuff for the purpose of putting it on social media.

[1144] Or I wasn't like enjoying my life as much.

[1145] I was more so worried about like how I was going to look or, you know, how I can use this.

[1146] And I was always constantly like scheming and plotting.

[1147] And it's just, I didn't think it was healthy.

[1148] And then I started to see the effect that it was having on other people too.

[1149] and or just people around me in general.

[1150] It was like, I was noticing it was terrible for my little brother and I think it's terrible for kids in general and it just made it to where everything was so, you only got to see little glimpses of things, you know what I mean?

[1151] People take the perfect picture and the perfect little of course and all this.

[1152] So that's just what you see and you only got to see the shine and the glitz and the clamor and stuff.

[1153] So when a young kid, kid is looking at that he's like and he's going to see thousands of likes on it too you know and that's what everybody likes so yeah it it just almost make you feel like man that's what i should be you know i mean and when you're not that then it can give you such a a dangerous outlook on yourself to where you'll do something stupid to to be that almost to where i feel like it's going to change it's going be different how so what do you think's going to happen a couple weeks ago i saw that they were talking about uh you know taking away the likes yet you aren't going to see it.

[1154] People would jump off buildings.

[1155] Oh, bro, I would love that, though.

[1156] I would get back on it.

[1157] I'd be on Instagram full -fledged.

[1158] They said they were thinking about taking away the number of followers, too, so you couldn't see how many followers other people have.

[1159] I don't see why not.

[1160] I don't see why you need to see it.

[1161] I don't see why, you know, I guess.

[1162] You need to know how ridiculous it is.

[1163] When, like, sometimes, like, I'll see someone, like, what kills me. It was when I look in, like, the search area.

[1164] And there's some girl doing squats in a thong.

[1165] And I was like, let me see how many.

[1166] follow she has.

[1167] 18 million!

[1168] What?

[1169] Yeah, but my thing is, what good does that do?

[1170] You know what I mean?

[1171] Makes me happy.

[1172] Because it's so crazy.

[1173] But even, like, you know, it's huge in fighting and stuff, but you know, I look on it and like certain people have like millions of followers and this and that.

[1174] But does that necessarily translate to anything tangible, you know what I mean?

[1175] Anything real?

[1176] It's like, I don't necessarily know.

[1177] I don't know what the, I don't, know if anybody's done any studies and like really looked at that to see uh but i don't necessarily think it does and i don't really think it matters i think the only thing it does is like playing to your own head where you like you know oh he's getting so many lights or you post something you're like oh man i get i get this many likes and stuff but it's like it doesn't does it matter you know i guess for the the only way i can see it matter is for the algorithms you know people like to see what other people like right so that makes sense but we don't necessarily have to see that right you know what mean if if like what ray rod is doing his videos love them i'm going to look at them whether they got a hundred likes or they got a hundred thousand you know i'm going to follow him whether he's got a million followers or a hundred followers you know what i mean yeah i think that's probably the way it should be more because that seems more like real life yeah i get what you're saying um but in this day and age everybody wants to they want to know oh this is the number one show on Netflix is an interesting thing because you never know what the fuck Netflix ratings are you have no idea if you watch like say Ozark or something like that no one has any idea other than Netflix Netflix knows they don't tell you shit like when I do comedy specials on Netflix they go we love it thank you but here's the thing it don't stop me from watching it that's true you know what I mean and if anything it makes it a little better you know what I mean like I think so at least because now you got your own little thing that you kind of getting into I don't really like following the crowd that much maybe that's what the way I'm thinking about it but you know it don't stop me for watching it I wonder if they actually do that I wonder if they do do that if engagement will go down I'm sure Netflix you know when you look at Netflix's model I'm pretty sure that algorithm is is showing like okay this is getting this many likes let's put this on the front page so more people are going to click on it that makes sense I mean you don't necessarily have to see how many people watch it right well Netflix does it also for negotiation purposes sure like say when I do a special I know my last special got more views than my first special, but I don't know how many it got.

[1178] They don't tell you shit.

[1179] They just say, we're very happy.

[1180] We're very, very happy.

[1181] But tell me how many people are watching?

[1182] We can't tell you that.

[1183] Why, how come you can't tell me?

[1184] They're laughing.

[1185] We're very happy.

[1186] You're very happy.

[1187] What the fuck does that mean?

[1188] Tell me how many people.

[1189] Well, if it makes you feel better, you'll see us doing that now with ESPN.

[1190] You don't know how many pay -per -views that's getting.

[1191] Well, there's not many.

[1192] That's the problem.

[1193] It's not many.

[1194] The first one they did was last.

[1195] than a hundred thousand yeah that's not good when you consider that you know that was a giant fight you know max holloway dustin poirier big ass fucking fight 100 000 not even 100000 but that takes away from our our uh value as fighters you know i mean because that's what i'm saying you don't truly get to see it that's also because of streaming because this transition to ESPN plus it's going to take a while before everybody realizes 100 % this is the only way you're going to get the pay -per -view it's the only way you're going to watch the fights you got to get the app yeah That's a great app I use it all the time I have it on I have Apple TV at home So I watch it on that It's seamless I like it Yeah I mean me too But then again I'm gonna just I'm gonna follow on wherever they go But DeZone is the same way too Like I watch the Joshua Ruiz fight I watch that on DeZone That's fucking excellent It's the same thing Yeah I mean And the numbers from From stuff like that It's like That's why I mean I think eventually it's gonna change To where we're really gonna see The true numbers It's gonna have to because I wonder Because when you see like Canello Alvarez Make 25 million Or wherever he did In his last fight And then you hear He's only got You know 800 ,000 Subscribers That signed up for DeZone But then you look at At There's only 800 ,000 Subscribers on DeZone That's what I heard At least No That can't be true So that's in Google How many Subsribers Does DeZone have D -A -ZN?

[1196] I was calling it Dazin Forever No no no man It's DeZone.

[1197] I'm like, well, you need a fucking O and an E. Yeah, right.

[1198] But then you look, I mean, I don't know.

[1199] Jamie, I'll probably pull up the number.

[1200] But then when you, when you look at, like, on the same night, Al fought Cowboy, which is a way better fight, too.

[1201] That was an amazing fight.

[1202] A great fight.

[1203] But, you know, ESPN, I don't know how many numbers, you know, they don't say the numbers of subscribers, but it's got to be comparable.

[1204] Right.

[1205] But that was a free fight.

[1206] He didn't have to, see, the thing is about.

[1207] ESPN Plus, you get free fights, and then you get pay -per -views.

[1208] So the Cowboy v. Al Iaquinta fight was a great fight, but it was free.

[1209] So if you got that app, you just watched the fight.

[1210] But I think the zone is the same way.

[1211] You don't have to buy them.

[1212] You just pay per month.

[1213] Yes, yes.

[1214] But the UFC for pay -per -view is not.

[1215] So when you get a pay -per -view fight, you have to pay.

[1216] So that's a little weird, right?

[1217] Like maybe make it a little more money, make it $10 a month, and give everybody everything.

[1218] That would be crazy.

[1219] That was what the WWE did.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] And it was a huge success.

[1222] They'd probably figure that out.

[1223] But it took a while.

[1224] It was rocky.

[1225] Paperview model was, oh, four million.

[1226] Four million subscribers to DeZone.

[1227] That makes sense.

[1228] The press release they had from their Vice President of North America said that.

[1229] Amherty show.

[1230] But yeah, I don't know.

[1231] That's way of worldwide subscribers or North America subscribers.

[1232] I don't.

[1233] That doesn't matter.

[1234] Right.

[1235] It's internet.

[1236] It doesn't matter.

[1237] So four million people.

[1238] Maybe you're right.

[1239] And this guy's full of shit.

[1240] No, I think that's totally right.

[1241] No, I think, yeah, that's totally right.

[1242] But it limits your ability to negotiate, right?

[1243] Because you don't know.

[1244] Like with DirecTV, like, hey, DirecTV says there's 700 ,000 pay -per -view buys.

[1245] You know, big hit, everybody's happy.

[1246] You get a piece of that.

[1247] Like, oh, boy, we've got this much money coming in.

[1248] Like, how are they doing deals now for pay -per -view?

[1249] I don't know.

[1250] I don't know.

[1251] I ain't gone to remegotiation yet, but, you know.

[1252] Do they, after your fight, do they give you a window of time before you, They contact you and hit you up with another fight?

[1253] Like, how does that work?

[1254] Knowing me, I wanted to get back in there in August.

[1255] But, you know.

[1256] What's up, Jamie?

[1257] I'm now reading that they were publicly saying that more than 1 .2 million people watched worldwide Canello's last fight.

[1258] So that's not that many.

[1259] That's way less.

[1260] Well, that's not that many because it's free.

[1261] Once you have the zone, that's free.

[1262] Which is interesting.

[1263] that the UFC has a different model than that.

[1264] Only thing I mean is Canelo gets $25 million, and then, you know, Al and Cowboy get about $100 grand apiece.

[1265] So it's like, you know, where's the value in this going on?

[1266] And then it's not even Canelo, I think, like, three fights down, you know, on the cart.

[1267] Like, that guy got like $100 grand.

[1268] I even know his name.

[1269] Really?

[1270] Yeah, I mean, when you look at the purse out.

[1271] Canelo got like a $600 million deal.

[1272] Something insane, right?

[1273] And didn't they just sign Tyson Fury to something similar like that with the SPN?

[1274] He got some crazy similar deal as well.

[1275] And Anthony Joshua was with DeZone.

[1276] It's another crazy deal.

[1277] It's all weird right now, right?

[1278] Everybody's trying to figure out what the future is and they're banking on streaming, which I think is the correct bet.

[1279] Yeah, I mean, it's changing.

[1280] Everything is, at least everything I think is going to change.

[1281] It's just taking a little bit of time before it all comes around, right?

[1282] We surprised at Cowboy and Ilai, Quinta, we surprised at that result?

[1283] No, no, not really.

[1284] The way, I'm surprised it went that long, you know what I mean?

[1285] I thought the only way Cowboy, or the only way Al was going to win is if he would have knocked them out early.

[1286] It's just the kicks would have been too much, and it was.

[1287] Like, I think that first left switch kick that he threw and kind of caught Al on top of the head a little bit.

[1288] I think that, yeah, I wasn't necessarily surprised.

[1289] I say, Cowboys have been on his game, for sure.

[1290] He's been on his game lately.

[1291] Which brings up this weekend.

[1292] Tony Ferguson, Cowboys, Cironi.

[1293] Holy shit.

[1294] Ooh, I'm so excited about that fight.

[1295] I see it going to Tony, though.

[1296] Really?

[1297] You know, at first I didn't.

[1298] I thought that Cowboys just too on his point.

[1299] Cowboys' timing might be a little bit better.

[1300] So, you know, and Tony does get hit.

[1301] So, you know, that's something to look at.

[1302] But I think Tony's just unorthy.

[1303] movements and in the way he throws punches and moves his head at the same time as throwing punches cowboy likes to kind of leave his head up there and maybe get hit to the body or something so Tony's relentless yeah that motherfucker never gets tired and he keeps coming at you yeah yes yes it's a three rounder because it's the third fight below the main event so the main event is sehudo marlon morise which is another fucking phenomenal fight yeah yeah marlin's got a lot of power Ooh, he's got everything.

[1304] That's a big 135 or two.

[1305] That dude's jacked.

[1306] That's a big, that's like a big risk going up for pseudo, I think, you know.

[1307] And, you know, he's such a champ, though.

[1308] He's been at the top of multiple sports for so long that he's got so much experience.

[1309] He's going to know how to handle it right, but that's a good fight.

[1310] It's better than people are giving the credit for it, for sure.

[1311] Yeah.

[1312] He just wants to be champ champ, champ, you know.

[1313] There's only two champ champs.

[1314] He wants to be number three.

[1315] Well, there's three champ champs.

[1316] I'm sorry because can we call this something else Amanda Dunes Yeah yeah Can we call this something else From like Why don't you like it?

[1317] You know Because there's too many of them not I was like okay I like it I like what you call him champ champ champ When DC became champ champ champ I got excited But then when you defend the belt You know For two or three times Are you champ champ then You know what I mean You won the title twice And defended it you should be champ champ then but when you win two divisions you are champ champ champ you stop fucking around Kevin Lee I'm hating you can't take away Amanda Nunes is champ champ champ if she decides to never fight a featherweight again she is champ champ period yeah yeah you're right you're right but you know I wish we call it something different you know it's a champ champ's perfect you just mad that Connor invented it yeah I mean, I ain't got a lot to you.

[1318] What's the matter, Jamie?

[1319] Do you know Rumble's not fighting, but he's got an event soon.

[1320] Dude, that's a dangerous fight if you want to keep your knees.

[1321] Craig Jones is no goddamn joke.

[1322] Craig Jones is a heel -hookin motherfucker.

[1323] He is at the...

[1324] Yeah, Craig Jones is at the top of the food chain in the submission grappling world, but he's not as big as Rumble.

[1325] But I don't think anybody's drug testing.

[1326] But that means they're not drug testing Rumble.

[1327] So who knows?

[1328] I don't even know if they have to...

[1329] weigh in.

[1330] I don't think they're going to weigh in.

[1331] They're calling it like David v. Goliath match, so I don't believe.

[1332] Open weight.

[1333] Rubble's going to be a 350 pounds.

[1334] I wonder what Rumble's going to weigh.

[1335] Because Craig Jones has been grappling.

[1336] I want to say he's probably around 215, 220 long guy.

[1337] He's not incredibly ripped, but the submission grappling world is very strange because there's no real drug testing to speak of and everybody kind of knows that everybody's kind of juiced up.

[1338] You know?

[1339] They're from Brazil.

[1340] It's not even Brazil.

[1341] Craig Jones is from Australia.

[1342] No, I mean, but I just mean the community, you know what I mean?

[1343] But I don't know.

[1344] I don't think it comes that much in the play in grappling.

[1345] You know, it's so much technique and leverage involved.

[1346] It comes in the play.

[1347] It helps you train much longer, much harder.

[1348] Yeah, it helps you be stronger, especially with no ghee.

[1349] Probably does.

[1350] You know, I think in no ghee, well, I think it works with ghee too.

[1351] It's just, look, it's physical.

[1352] It's a physical thing.

[1353] You get two guys, one guy's on juice, one guy doesn't.

[1354] The guy who's on juice has some sort of an advantage if they're both technically similar.

[1355] But that's a tough fight for Rumble in that.

[1356] Craig is used to being on the bottom, and he's used to fighting with inside control of the legs.

[1357] Like, I don't know what kind of Rumble, what kind of leg lock game Rumble has.

[1358] What is this?

[1359] Dennis Holman.

[1360] Oh, yeah.

[1361] Eight and twelve seconds.

[1362] The crazy thing is Dennis Holman went for a fucking heel hook here.

[1363] And Craig Jones was like, nope.

[1364] Not a good idea.

[1365] Yeah, he fucked his leg up, man. Not a good idea.

[1366] Yeah.

[1367] I feel like that's going to be the next little evolution that you see in MMA.

[1368] It's leg locks.

[1369] Yeah, I think so too.

[1370] I've really like started to incorporate it a little bit into my game.

[1371] It's, especially against wrestlers, like I would be a little worried if I was in Robles Corner.

[1372] for that because wrestlers are a little more susceptible to leg locks for sure so I feel like that's going to be like the next little level that you see guys starting to go forward you have to understand the system and I don't I'm not a leg lock guy it's hard yeah I see the transitions but if I was on the mat with them I wouldn't be a step ahead I wouldn't be able to like know where they're going and I would have to react as it's happening which is a giant disadvantage and I don't know what rumble knows I know he was a great wrestler and but rumble's big thing was never submitting people, it was fucking people up standing up.

[1373] Yeah, I mean, I think the best way is just to try and disengage from them and just not let them have your legs.

[1374] It's just, that's easier said than done.

[1375] Good luck with all that with Craig Jones.

[1376] It's just the thing with those guys is when you're rolling with someone who is that high level with submissions, you are reacting and they know how you're going to react and they're anticipating your reaction and they have a counter to your reaction.

[1377] And you're always one step behind.

[1378] So you can explode and explode, explode.

[1379] And eventually you get a little tire and then who -who -whoop.

[1380] And, you know, Hickson used to talk about that.

[1381] It's like, they can't keep the rhythm.

[1382] That's what I always say.

[1383] They can't keep the rhythm.

[1384] Like, because they just keep going.

[1385] They keep attacking and you just can explode and explode and show everybody how athletic you are.

[1386] But after a while, that shit wears out.

[1387] And then next thing you know, you're wrapped up in something.

[1388] Yeah.

[1389] And I think they see more guys like you.

[1390] You know what I mean?

[1391] They see more guys that are just trying to, you know, they see a lot of wrestlers and a lot of guys just try those same kind of defenses where you not seeing that many guys that are good at leadlocks like that, especially to the point where now they're starting to understand it way more technically than, you know, like, Paharis style of just, like, grab your foot and just trying to, like, squeeze the shit off.

[1392] Well, Paharis had some good technique, but it wasn't as complex as, like, you know, Eddie Cummings or something like that.

[1393] Yeah, yeah.

[1394] I don't mean Paharis in general, I just mean that style of doing it.

[1395] You know, some guys you just see, like, they just grab your foot and just will twist it the way it ain't supposed to go.

[1396] Right, right, right.

[1397] But, you know, when you look at a guy like Donahir style, and he's breaking it down like a mad scientist, he's like, you know, there's literally going to be no way that you're going to get out of those different levels of it, you know?

[1398] Well, you've seen that with Gary Tonin now in M .M. Yeah, yeah.

[1399] Gary Tonin was fighting over and won.

[1400] He just submitted the shit out of somebody with an inside heel hook.

[1401] Has he fought against him?

[1402] Yeah, he just fought real recently.

[1403] He just fought like a week ago.

[1404] Oh, wow.

[1405] Yeah, Gary Tonin is, he's going to be a world champion.

[1406] I really believe that.

[1407] Yeah, I've seen his first, like, two maybe.

[1408] Well, he's undefeated.

[1409] He's 4 -0 now.

[1410] Oh, okay.

[1411] And it's just the way he's winning, too.

[1412] He's fucking people up.

[1413] And he's super dedicated, and he's just real smart.

[1414] And when he's got, with a guy like Donahur in his corner, like, Donahur is another guy.

[1415] And he's also, by the way, you know, he's locked up with Farasa Hobby.

[1416] They're all, like, in cahoots together.

[1417] They train together.

[1418] But Donahur's got a special brain.

[1419] He really does.

[1420] He has a special understanding of submissions.

[1421] Yeah, I want to talk to that guy.

[1422] Yeah, yeah, I want to meet him out.

[1423] You definitely should.

[1424] Go get on down in New York.

[1425] Yeah, he's the type of...

[1426] Visit DeHenzo.

[1427] Yeah, he's the type of dude.

[1428] I sit there.

[1429] I talk six hours with him, like, because he seems like he's got that, you know, systematic way of breaking stuff down.

[1430] Yes, yeah, he does.

[1431] I kind of like that.

[1432] Because it takes the guesswork out of it.

[1433] You know what I mean?

[1434] It takes the, what if he does this?

[1435] Oh, well, then he's got an answer for it.

[1436] What if he does this?

[1437] He's got an answer.

[1438] Yes.

[1439] You know, that's why I feel like I'm kind of missing.

[1440] I'm like, well, I necessarily died in my game, but...

[1441] Yeah, I think that would be a great addition to anybody's games to train down there and understand what that guy's doing.

[1442] Or, I mean, there's quite a few different systems now, and then you got, like Craig Jones, who's coming, like I said, from Australia.

[1443] He's got a very similar system, too.

[1444] It's just everybody's got different approaches to it, but what Donahir did and that Hensow Gracie team did is they just kind of, like, proof of concept.

[1445] Like, just let everybody know, hey, like, you're missing out on a giant, chunk of this thing.

[1446] And a giant chunk of this thing is all the variables that come in to play when guys are trying to rip each other's knees apart.

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Yeah.

[1449] And it kind of goes back to even like, you know, those individual sports are so ahead of ours a little bit, you know.

[1450] Like what we were talking about earlier when you're seeing world -class jujitsu fighters or a world -class moitai fighter.

[1451] They're just better at that thing than the guys who do everything.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] So, I mean, a couple years ago, you saw more like jiu -jitsu going to back attacks and, you know, arm bars were like really big in it um and now you then they kind of went through like the leg lock era and i feel like we kind of stuck on the back attack kind of arm bar and eventually we'll move over to to uh being able to pull off leg locks because now you're seeing a lot of jihitsu guys kind of get away from leglock and it starting to under the defense is starting to catch up a little bit um i didn't get to go to worlds to see it but you know i'm i always like to stay one step ahead of it and and see where it's going you know and what's on the other side of it it's interesting that worlds they were weighing the fighters before they got onto the mat that's how you weighed in yeah you had to make weight with your guion at the side of the mat and then you drink some water and then go roll so they're trying to discourage any and all weight cutting that works if you're not getting hit you know i mean right right right right uh when you talk about like dudes punching each other some guys are still going to cut weight and that's too big of a risk to take terrible yeah you Dangerous.

[1454] Yeah, very, very dangerous.

[1455] Very dangerous.

[1456] Your brain is, you know, and this was even an idea that I had kind of had was like, I wonder why nobody creates some type of fluid -filled headgear of some sort.

[1457] You know what I mean?

[1458] Like, when you think about like your brain, like your brain is surrounded by that fluid, and that's really what's protecting it, you know, more so than even like the thickness of your skull or anything.

[1459] So when you put in, you know, I get why the, like, boxing, amateur boxing is starting to take away the headgear because they're saying it's making it more dangerous.

[1460] It's really only helping the guy who's punching you.

[1461] You know, when you punch somebody with a headgear, you can go, like, full blast.

[1462] Well, it's also their head snaps more because there's weight on the neck.

[1463] Yeah, yeah.

[1464] It's actually making it worse, you know.

[1465] Where if you had something that was fluid feel, kind of recreating the inside of your hit, then that would absorb and shake the, the water you know like almost like those uh those water bags you know yeah when you hit those like you can feel like it's a little it absorbs the the the the uh impact a little bit different yeah i just wonder i mean i don't it probably not a good idea like maybe if you bust it and you got water fucking flowing everywhere or something that's a big deal but i think you're right that makes sense if they could design it correctly and figure out a way to disperse the impact better yeah that's a good idea yeah yeah i mean i don't know they they should just do some serious testing on i don't know why uh i'm part of the cleveland clinic um over in in in Vegas they they've got this study going on for a couple years where they take you in and they uh they run you through an MRI scan and they do all these different type of tests on you um a lot on the computer like testing your reaction skills testing your balance testing all the you know different parts of your brain um it's been a couple years now.

[1466] I think I've been part of them for like four years.

[1467] I go in twice a year to get it done.

[1468] But that just seems like it's going to take so long before you really notice anything.

[1469] And when you do that, do they tell you your results based on how you were six months ago?

[1470] Yeah, they give me, I actually just ask for the MRI scans because they tell you and they're just like, yeah, no, you're fine.

[1471] Like, your results are, because it's kind of the same test that you're taking over and over and over again.

[1472] So they just kind of match them up to how you did.

[1473] last time and you know if you scored a 98 on the last one you scored 98 on this one it's like okay that's cool you know yeah you're fine but to me i asked them for the actual MRI scans i don't know how to read an MRI like that right but you know because i want to see like the even the it's got to be deeper than that it's got to be deeper than two plus two and you know all this shit like it's got to be something more to it like they should just do a study where they take a ballistic hit and hit it a bunch of times and see what's happening to the brain of it, you know what I mean?

[1474] Right, right.

[1475] Let Francis punch it.

[1476] Yeah, see what's happening.

[1477] Like, I want to know, you know?

[1478] I think, and I think fans, like, want to know.

[1479] Like, you don't want to give your brain to this shit.

[1480] Right.

[1481] You know, and it's like, and then you can do stuff where you put something over, put a headgear on it, see if it makes it worse.

[1482] Put it, like I said, water head gear or something.

[1483] Do you think they're ever going to get to a point where they'll have a study that they can, like a test like that, they could do it?

[1484] a fighter and they'll say hey man you can't fight anymore yeah for sure they really don't have that right now which is why they let chuck lydell fight tita or tis right yeah i i think uh uh just like m r like an MRI you know like a couple years ago you know you wouldn't be able to get the same type of image and um and now when you see like some of the stuff that they're really coming out with medically um i think that's going to advance so much more to where you're going to really be able to see like the individual neurons and and stuff like that and you're see like okay you're breaking up these these parts of your brain that we couldn't see before you know you couldn't see it with a with an x -ray you couldn't see it with a with an MRI a lot of times they can't see until the autopsy right right so hopefully as as technology improves and as we get better on on that front like then we can just start to take some of that uh uh that technology and and use it for what we doing you know yeah well Kevin Lee it's been a blast let's do it again six months.

[1485] Let me know what happens.

[1486] A year.

[1487] A year will be.

[1488] A year will be.

[1489] Thank you, brother.

[1490] I appreciate you, man. Kevin Lee, ladies and gentlemen.