When Kids Question You or Your Faith

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[16] So what do you do if you have a child who questions your faith, who questions his faith, who doesn't want to go to church, who may not, who may say, I don't love God or I don't believe in Jesus.

[17] What do you do with that?

[18] So that's what we're going to discuss today on the Calm Christian Parenting podcast.

[19] This is Kirk Martin, founder Celebrate Calm.

[20] We're glad you're here.

[21] This is very personal to us.

[22] I'll give you a brief background.

[23] I am one of four boys.

[24] We grew up in largely just a basically heathen home, right?

[25] We were not religious at all.

[26] We didn't know anything as kids.

[27] Didn't go to church, nothing.

[28] We had no background.

[29] My oldest brother, who had a really tough life, right?

[30] Watch this with a strong -willed oldest first -born child, who's an artist with a career military father.

[31] Guess what?

[32] That doesn't work out so great.

[33] So my oldest brother, during our teen years, had a quite radical transformation that can only be attributed to an encounter with God.

[34] It's the only thing you can come up with.

[35] It was something that changed our family.

[36] So I had an encounter with God later in my teen years.

[37] And then my next oldest brother, who went from going to med school to divinity school to be a pastor, and then my youngest brother, and all four of us had separate kind of, if you want to call it, encounters with Christ at different times, and yet neither my mom or dad did until much later.

[38] So it was actually the boys, the kids, led their parents, right?

[39] So we didn't grow up with this being modeled at all.

[40] So I get married, and my wife had, it came from a very religious home, but it wasn't necessarily a healthy religious home, if you know what I mean, very law -based, not very lived -out, not a lot of grace and mercy and compassion, right?

[41] And that happens a lot.

[42] So we end up having Casey, strong -willed child.

[43] That's why we formed CelebrateCalm .com, right?

[44] Any of you know that any of our stuff know that Casey was driving force behind this.

[45] And surprise, surprise, Casey questioned everything as a kid.

[46] He questioned things.

[47] And if you want to read our story, go to Celebrate Calm.

[48] to the calm parenting podcast you'll hear a lot of that on there but here's where we are today so casey had question his faith question it and because he has a little bit more of a scientific brain and he believes he's just always questioned things so i'm gonna so what i want you to know is this is very very personal and it's even ongoing until to this day he's 26 years of age but i want to let you know it's been a really cool process and we've gotten even closer in some ways because of his questioning and like everything we talk about with a strong will child if you do not react if you do not react out of fear and you enter into the discomfort and really engage you will actually find that this is an opportunity to form a closer relationship with your child so i've got about 10, 11 steps that I go through.

[49] One is this, first, acknowledge.

[50] Acknowledge that your child's questions are legitimate because they are, right?

[51] Acknowledge that.

[52] Don't dismiss it.

[53] Don't try to talk them out of everything.

[54] Don't counter every point.

[55] You already do that in every area of your life with their kids, and that's why they don't want to listen to you and talk to you.

[56] True, it's what you do, because that's what we all do as parents.

[57] don't get defensive like that.

[58] Acknowledge that they should have questions because they should.

[59] Because you shouldn't just take anything on blind faith because some authority figure told you that whether it's a pastor or a priest or a parent.

[60] It's normal to question things.

[61] And I promise you, if you talk to, let's put it this way, we've done a lot of teaching and training in Orthodox Jewish schools.

[62] and I've spent quite a bit of time in the community and celebrate a Shabbat weekend with a family and what they all told me is we are a stiff -necked people, we question and we wrestle with things and that's normal and healthy and good, so acknowledge it.

[63] Look, it's normal to question.

[64] So this whole resurrection thing, like it really happened like Jesus died and then he came back to life there are a lot of things to question and that's normal so don't freak out about it okay number two affirm affirm them for questioning things it's a good thing and I know my Christian friends struggle especially very hardcore conservative Christians are like nope you should never rebel against authority but you're the same ones who love America and America was formed because we rebelled against King George, the authority figure.

[65] So chill with that a little bit.

[66] Affirm.

[67] Of course you're going to question things in life.

[68] I welcome your questioning.

[69] And look, when you welcome it instead of fearing it, see, when you fear it and you get defensive about it, what does it tell your child that your faith is brittle, that God is somehow brittle, that God, the entire universe, who you say that you trust and believe, right?

[70] But oftentimes we don't act like we do.

[71] What happens.

[72] They start to think, well, your faith and your God must be very brittle that they can't be questioned.

[73] So affirm it.

[74] Of course you're going to have questions.

[75] You should have questions.

[76] I'm 54.

[77] I'm still questioning things.

[78] You know why?

[79] Because a lot of the stuff that I was taught as a young man in the church isn't even scriptural.

[80] It's not biblical.

[81] It has nothing to do with the character of God.

[82] It was just religious tradition that we were taught.

[83] and it's not true.

[84] I just read a book about the Apostle Paul.

[85] Whoever reads a book about Paul?

[86] He's a fascinating guy, right?

[87] One of the major driving forces, one of the great philosophers, so to speak, of all time.

[88] It had a huge impact on the world, and yet nobody really bothers to read about him, but you go and you read about Paul in his background and what he really meant, it'll blow you away.

[89] And I was just talking to this pastor in Kansas City where we spoke, and I was like, Pastor, nobody taught me this stuff.

[90] Like, why doesn't anybody teach you these things?

[91] Because it's really uncomfortable sometimes.

[92] So, number three, ask questions.

[93] But don't interrogate parents, because that's what we do.

[94] Don't interrogate, ask questions.

[95] If you're a listener of the Calm Parenting Podcast or if you have any of our CDs or programs, you will notice this phrase.

[96] I'm curious.

[97] I love the I'm curious phrase.

[98] Look, I'm curious case, I get it.

[99] I acknowledge that you have questions and doubts.

[100] I affirm that because it's, of course you do.

[101] Right?

[102] Of course you do.

[103] Somebody's saying, so I'm curious.

[104] What is it that you're struggling with?

[105] What is it that you question?

[106] Why are you struggling?

[107] I'm curious.

[108] Because I'm curious says, I want to learn.

[109] I want, and that's what I want you to do is learn because these kids have legitimate questions.

[110] And a lot of them, them that come up are going to be about how the church or Christians do things.

[111] And it's an opportunity for you acknowledge.

[112] Absolutely.

[113] I don't agree with that either.

[114] We'll get to that in a little bit.

[115] So ask questions.

[116] Number four, listen.

[117] Listen.

[118] Really listen.

[119] Don't do what we normally do, which is in all relationships.

[120] We don't really listen.

[121] Because while with the other person, while your spouse is talking and telling you something, you're too busy formulating your response and you're not really listening.

[122] When you get involved in conversations about cop politics, we don't really listen to the person on the other side.

[123] We're too busy trying to formulate the response to show that we're right.

[124] And that's where relationships break down.

[125] And that's not good for your marriage.

[126] And it's not good for having conversation with anybody.

[127] listen listen ask questions seek to understand not to prove that you're right okay it never look there's a lot of a lot of um i don't want to necessarily get into this but it's not about proving that you're right okay it's about having the right heart and that's where we go wrong in our faith a lot is because we want to have the right doctrine but our hearts aren't right their entire branches of Christianity that form around one issue because I believe that the correct way to do X is this way.

[128] So we're just going to branch off so that we can show that we're rights.

[129] And meanwhile, oftentimes our hearts are far from God.

[130] So I want you to listen and I want you to really listen to ask questions.

[131] You don't even have to respond.

[132] The best way to respond would be to say, you know what?

[133] Those are really good questions.

[134] Let me think about that a little bit and then I'll come back.

[135] But when you come back, don't come back, right?

[136] And throw down a book and say, read this because this will prove that you're wrong.

[137] That's not helpful.

[138] Now, it's fine to provide resources.

[139] It's given Casey some books that I think are pretty helpful.

[140] He's found some on his own, right?

[141] And the goal is to get to the root of it.

[142] Number five, get to the root of it.

[143] find out what's really bugging your child what's really what is it is it something that is well it's just the hypocrisy of the church and he doesn't like Christian people and so that's why he doesn't want to follow Jesus well okay I get that that takes for one path is it legitimate questions about science and how that squares with scripture some of that has been with cases cases have been all the questions because that's who he is and so I want to to find that out, because now we can have a conversation about it.

[144] I wrote this word down humility.

[145] Please approach this with humility.

[146] We don't want to be defensive at all, and I don't want to go be aggressive, but I want to model humility here to say, huh, that's interesting.

[147] Look, affirm that they're even wrestling with it.

[148] The worst thing in a marriage in any relationship is what?

[149] We just don't care, right?

[150] Indifference.

[151] is the worst feeling in your marriage, right, in any relationship.

[152] Acknowledged that they're wrestling.

[153] It's a good sign.

[154] Now, I'm going to go off track here for a second because it's a big one.

[155] Number six, model it and live it out.

[156] Your best lecture for your faith is how you live your everyday life.

[157] If we say Jesus has changed my life, he's worthy of being followed, but then we don't really actually follow him.

[158] And I'm not talking about it in a legalistic way.

[159] But if we show our kids, it's one of the things we talk about all the time in the other podcast is modeling for your kids.

[160] If you can't control your own emotions, how can you yell at your kids for not being able to control their own?

[161] If you want your kids to be generous, be generous toward others.

[162] If you want your kids to have compassion, have compassion on other people.

[163] Don't gossip, right?

[164] If you want your kids to have self -control, then you have self -control.

[165] If you want your kids to be giving, you be giving, you forgive people, show mercy.

[166] That's your greatest lecture in life is not what you say.

[167] It is what you do, especially during the tough times.

[168] When you're late, when you're in traffic, when you've experienced conflict with someone, how do you respond to that?

[169] Because what will draw people to Jesus is not.

[170] not your arguments is going to be you and how you live, right?

[171] And how all of us live.

[172] It's going to draw them, draw people to him.

[173] Number seven, have a quiet confidence in this.

[174] Because if mom just emailed, she's like, same issue.

[175] She's like, well, God has a plan.

[176] I'm like, he does.

[177] But it's probably not on your timeline.

[178] So let go of your timeline.

[179] Let go of your angst, your angst, and your anxiety over this.

[180] your anxiety is normal.

[181] So I'll acknowledge right now.

[182] You should be anxious.

[183] If you have a strong well child, you should be feeling anxious and frustrated and fearful pretty much all the time.

[184] But I don't want you to act out of that, right?

[185] So it's nothing wrong with feeling that, but I don't want to make decisions based on that.

[186] But I want you to have a quiet confidence and know this is not going to be done in your timeline.

[187] It's not like a relationships are not like this tightly, this little box that we wrap up nicely, right, and do everything.

[188] They're hard and they're messy and they're supposed to.

[189] They're supposed to be difficult.

[190] Look, and it's not because of modern society.

[191] Go, look, for my Christian friends who are like, oh, everything was better back then.

[192] Really?

[193] When?

[194] Have you ever studied history?

[195] Sorry to be sarcastic, but it's such an, I was going to say it's such an ignorant thing to say, but I didn't want to be jerky, but that's kind of my nature.

[196] It's an ignorant thing to say.

[197] The first family, the first family, Adam and Eve, look, their whole relationship was, everything was started with deception and a lie.

[198] And the first thing Adam apparently did is blame his wife for his actions.

[199] That's a good start to your marriage.

[200] And then they have Kane and Abel, and one of the first two kids was a murder.

[201] so there's your first family welcome right everybody's like oh I come from a dysfunctional family well who doesn't because we're all broken people we are so broken you know what's awesome about getting older is you realize how broken you are when I was a young man everything was black and white I knew exactly what to do and I knew everything was contained in my little religious box and in my intellectual box and every other box I had and as you get old you realize, I don't know much of anything right now.

[202] And it allows you to live with a little bit of humility.

[203] But let go of your timeline.

[204] This thing with Casey has been going on for a long time.

[205] And what it has done has brought us closer together.

[206] It is a really cool thing.

[207] Don't try so hard.

[208] Don't push.

[209] Don't be anxious.

[210] I love this phrase.

[211] It's like the I'm curious.

[212] phrase, when you're ready, right?

[213] When you're ready, I'd love to talk about that.

[214] It's a great, you're giving your kids some space.

[215] If you want to model for this, look at Luke 15, the story of the prodigal son.

[216] The father in that story, son goes off, starts wasting all of his money.

[217] If I'd been the father, I would have hunted that kid down.

[218] I would have been like, do not spend the rest of my money.

[219] You are in trouble, young man. I would have hunted him down.

[220] The father didn't.

[221] He waited patiently for his son.

[222] He created, this is a cool insight.

[223] He created the environment in which that son knew, when I'm ready to come home, I can come home to my dad because he's not going to be waiting there angry at me, lecturing, shaking his head at me. That father drew his wayward son home to him.

[224] And I'll tell you, I don't want to forget to say this.

[225] I've done a lot of things wrong in my parenting.

[226] A lot of things wrong.

[227] And that's why I celebrate calm exists, because it's basically based on all the things that I did wrong.

[228] But I'll tell you lately, Casey has told me, he said, Dad, it has really made me respect you that you're open to my questions and that you listen and you don't try to force your way and your will onto me. That's actually drawing me to God more, and it makes me respect you more.

[229] That's cool, right?

[230] That's cool.

[231] It took me a long time to learn how to do that.

[232] So I'm hoping for you guys that can do a quick more.

[233] quickly.

[234] Here's a cool one.

[235] If you're willing to do this, it's cool.

[236] What can you learn from your child's perspective?

[237] What can you learn from your child's doubts?

[238] Use their curiosity, right?

[239] I will tell you it is, right?

[240] What's the scripture?

[241] Out of the mouths of babes from a lot of wisdom.

[242] Sometimes your kids have wisdom into spiritual things that you and I miss. Why?

[243] Because we're older and we have decades of religious tradition that blind us oftentimes to simple truths because we wrap ourselves in all kinds of religious cliches that just form this wall around us and now you have this strong -willed child who's asking you tough questions and you've got to really wrestle with it so recently here's what happened Casey sent me I believe it was a 14 page a 14 -page document filled with his questions, with his comments, what he's wrestling with.

[244] It was detailed.

[245] And as I read it, most of the time I was like, yep, good point, good point.

[246] Agree with you on that, Casey.

[247] I agree with you.

[248] Really good point.

[249] Then sometimes I'd say, hey, totally get where you're coming from.

[250] because I answered this email, this 14 -page letter, I emailed it, I answered it to him mainly in writing at first in sections because it was too long.

[251] It was difficult.

[252] And I'd say, okay, understand this point, but let me give you some perspective.

[253] And so I would give him some perspective.

[254] I'm not trying to argue with him, outwit him.

[255] A lot of times with kids like this, I want to give perspective because they're good thinkers.

[256] And if I just give him a little perspective and I do it with humility, then he's open to it.

[257] Then he'll wrestle with it.

[258] Right?

[259] It's a really cool thing.

[260] But I'll tell you the beautiful thing about this is these kids will tear a lot of those traditions out of you because there are things that you and I believe that have nothing to do with scripture and everything about to do with the way we were raised or church uh church traditions that again keep us further away from god at times this process has made me grow because i've had to look into things and question things myself and really search things and it's made it fresh again for me right so it's cool that that can happen what can you learn from your child what can you learn from their perspective you know what else is cool it's we've got this program it's called the no no BS instruction manual for strong will kids and in that one of there's 25 action steps and I do encourage you if you want the the least expensive but most helpful thing we have ever created for a strong will child go to celebrate calm .com and look this up there's a little tab that says no BS because I've got 50 I'm 54 I've got 20 years of experience doing this stuff and I just hit right to it We've slashed the price, 66%, so you get for $99.

[261] I promise you it will save you decades, years, months, weeks of tears, power struggles, fights, misunderstandings with your kids.

[262] It's $99.

[263] It is better than any therapy you will ever go through, but it's awesome.

[264] But one of the steps in there is let your child teach you something.

[265] One of the best ways you can bond with your child is instead of you just walking around is the authority figure, right?

[266] Just barking out things.

[267] You humble yourself and let your child teach you something.

[268] That will cause your child to be bonded to you in ways that you cannot imagine.

[269] Number nine, this is a tough one.

[270] Watch this.

[271] Your reaction to your child's doubt may just tell you something about yourself and your own relationship with God.

[272] Think about that.

[273] how you react to your child's questioning their doubt may just tell you something about your relationship with God, right?

[274] And so I just look at that, look a little bit deeply with that, okay, because I want to watch the way that you respond, because if you're really anxious in how you respond, that creates more uncertainty and doubt, right?

[275] That's why that defensive nature doesn't work.

[276] If you respond by pushing your child, you know with the strong will child, it causes them to resist and they will resist more.

[277] Number 10, draw your child to yourself.

[278] Draw them, right?

[279] Love them.

[280] Love your child without any conditions here, right?

[281] Because they're going to feel it if you're pulling away, if you're doing that.

[282] Love them.

[283] Love them right in this.

[284] It is powerful to draw them that way.

[285] And I'll probably close up with that.

[286] number 11, which is you're wondering when I'm getting to this, is praying.

[287] But this is what I prayed for Casey.

[288] And I don't know if this is the right thing to pray for.

[289] It's just when I would go for my long walks over the years.

[290] This is what I've prayed for Casey.

[291] I prayed that God would bring along people who could speak into his life, who could influence him.

[292] I prayed that God would bring along other people who he'd be open to, who would have gentle spirit.

[293] right look when i said that it almost made me cry you know why because that's what we're missing sometimes i wanted god to bring along some people with a gentle spirit who looked and acted like jesus like with long hair and a beard i'm kidding but i wanted them but i wanted him to be drawn to jesus i didn't want him i didn't want to find someone who's like well i want to find someone who has a PhD in apologetics so they can they can argue the point and convince him right i'm not looking for my son to be convinced i wanted to bring along some people and this is where it choking me up who would love my son who would love my son enough that they be patient with them and they listen to his questions and they know it's a kid not being rebellious questioning, you don't love God.

[294] It's a searching kid who's putting a lot of effort into this because it's important to him.

[295] I would rather have a questioning kid who keeps asking the questions and wrestles with it because that kid, that kid's being drawn.

[296] That kid will have a rock solid fate much stronger than the kid who just said what you wanted to hear all through his childhood so you wouldn't get upset.

[297] That happens a lot in Christian homes.

[298] They know your Christian lingo and they know what to say.

[299] Youth groups are filled with those kids because I ran a youth group.

[300] When we were young, before we were married, we were first married, we were in a youth group for high school kids and then college kids.

[301] And here's what I found in high school.

[302] All the kids knew the right thing to tell their parents, right?

[303] But they wouldn't tell them the hard things, so parents couldn't often take it.

[304] And so I prayed that God would bring along some people who would love my son.

[305] You know it's really cool within the last year, because I've been praying for this for a long time.

[306] Within the last year, Casey met a group of people.

[307] He is now surrounded by that.

[308] Two guys, there are two men, kind of close to my age.

[309] who were just strong, good guys.

[310] Guess what?

[311] We met them.

[312] We met one of them in Prague when we spoke there.

[313] That isn't cool.

[314] We spoke in the Czech Republic and met this family.

[315] And because the gentleman works in the government and works as a liaison and is based there.

[316] This guy's a really strong Christian guy and someone that my son looked up to and looks up to.

[317] And now there's a couple of them.

[318] and they're a couple families, and guess what they're doing?

[319] They love my son, and they're listening to him, and they're being patient with him.

[320] And see, what I know from parenting a strong -willed child is, especially when they get to the teenage years, they're not going to listen to you.

[321] You're just their stupid parent, just like I was Casey's stupid dad when he was a teenager.

[322] But I know that he listens to other people, right, and I know they listens to me now.

[323] because of the way that we're handling this.

[324] This has brought us a lot closer.

[325] We're having, he was just visiting.

[326] We had the best discussions every night at dinner, after dinner.

[327] We talk about this.

[328] Well, what about this?

[329] Have you thought about that?

[330] And it's really, really cool.

[331] So I hope this helps you.

[332] I encourage you, follow this process.

[333] If you have a tough or broken relationship with a strong -will child, I encourage you to look into our materials at celebrate calm .com.

[334] Everything's on sale if you need help.

[335] Look, if you need help, you're going to email Casey.

[336] That's our son.

[337] He works with us, and he's awesome at helping people.

[338] Probably tell you something else about Casey.

[339] Probably the most morally upright person that I know.

[340] He is basically, it's part of his personality style.

[341] It's part of who he is.

[342] It's part of the name that we chose for him.

[343] Casey, I believe it means, does whatever is right no matter the circumstance.

[344] That is my son.

[345] He's more moral than most of the Christian people I know, including me. So, right, so he's awesome, but you can email him.

[346] It's Casey, C -A -S -E -Y, CelebrateCallum .com.

[347] Now, don't email him and ask him all these.

[348] You can ask him, no, I don't really want you to ask him questions about this.

[349] This is kind of a personal thing.

[350] Ask him questions about how he can help you and your kids.

[351] But I want a bunch of people, especially freaky Christian types, you know who you are.

[352] I'm kidding, but not really.

[353] I want everybody emailing him like, oh, we've heard all about your thing because it'll send them further away if you put too much pressure.

[354] So you pray for my son as I'll pray for yours.

[355] But would you email Casey because he can help you out with any of our programs.

[356] He's lived them all.

[357] He's recorded some of them.

[358] He knows them all.

[359] We can help you fit it within your budget.

[360] The one program I would highlight is that no BS program.

[361] program.

[362] If you have a husband who is at odds with your child, that one's fantastic.

[363] It's 25 action steps.

[364] But any way we can help you, let us know, reach out to us.

[365] Thank you for doing what you do as a parent.

[366] And if we can support you anyway, let us know.

[367] Love you all.

[368] Bye -bye.