S1 E7: We're Done, I'm Running, You're Insane

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some.

[11] Please use discretion when listening.

[12] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong.

[13] And then Kimmy calls me back.

[14] And then Kimmy calls me back.

[15] And then Kimmy calls me back.

[16] And it's ringing.

[17] She calls me. My phone is vibrating.

[18] Her name is on the screen.

[19] And I freeze.

[20] Like, I can't feel my limbs.

[21] I'm so terrified.

[22] And I let it ring all the way through.

[23] I didn't answer it because I didn't know what to do.

[24] And then I get a text from her minutes later.

[25] It says, your voicemail's not set up.

[26] yet, hon, because I had a new phone, since my fiance had never going to get married, I switched to a different plan and got a new phone, hadn't set up my voicemail.

[27] And I'm like, damn it.

[28] And to this day, I wonder what she would have said.

[29] But I said, Kimmy, I'm going to ask something of you.

[30] Can you send me a picture of yourself right now?

[31] I know what's weird.

[32] Send me a picture.

[33] She goes, no problem.

[34] Here's a picture of me at dinner.

[35] And I went, no, can you get more specific?

[36] Because it was when I, it was weird.

[37] Like something about it.

[38] This is still when you're sitting there with your room on the floor with my roommates.

[39] Sunday morning.

[40] Yep.

[41] In my fiancé's oversized t -shirt, the morning after I asked him to postpone our wedding.

[42] Okay.

[43] And I have not slept more than like 10 minutes all night.

[44] And I said, can you send me a selfie?

[45] She sends me this weird picture that I'm just like this almost looks like I could reverse search it on Google and like it's a stock photo kind of thing.

[46] And she says, hello from dinner and sends another picture.

[47] And it's a picture of like the London skyline with Big Ben.

[48] And I'm like, no, you've sent that to me before and that's not what I asked for.

[49] So you can, you know, imagine my brain right now and everything going through it.

[50] All the thoughts.

[51] And is she saying, fuck you.

[52] She goes, what are you?

[53] Why are you?

[54] What is your point?

[55] She's like, what the heck?

[56] Is this to make sure I'm real L .O .L?

[57] Like, she said, this is insane sauce.

[58] Ha, ha.

[59] And I went, yeah, I understand how this can be weird.

[60] But can you understand my life is in a little bit of a weird spot right now.

[61] So I need one thing from you.

[62] I need a selfie with a peace sign.

[63] Hold up your hand and make a piece.

[64] peace sign right now and she's like this is ridiculous here's a picture of brian and me at our wedding it's a picture i'd seen before and what did you say i can't nothing i stopped replying i mean i could i stopped breathing also you know like i couldn't i actually all i do remember i think uh i think my face went white i like started to pass out because one roommate said i'm getting her water and starts to jump up and the other one like grabbed me i kind of like fell over and so she said that's holding me and I'm just laying there and she's holding me going, it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay, because I just, I think something in my brain just kind of snapped and they bring me water.

[65] That's when my roommate starts, she, I think all of a sudden stopped replying and then a good 10 to 15 minutes pass and I'm shaking, I'm hyperventile and I'm trying to figure out, okay, where do we go from here?

[66] Who is she?

[67] Who am I talking to?

[68] Is it someone that my fiancé knows that was posing as a friend?

[69] That's what I'm thinking.

[70] I'm thinking something about her is not real.

[71] So now all I know is that I have been lied to, but I don't know how.

[72] I don't know exactly what's going on.

[73] What's the no bullshit roommate saying at this point?

[74] She's saying, I knew this.

[75] Like I told you.

[76] And she kept saying like, oh, she said I had a friend that was recently catfished.

[77] This happens.

[78] It's a real thing.

[79] And she kept like looking at me dead and the eye and going, look at me, this happens, this is what has happened.

[80] And I'm like looking at her blank face going, no, no, no, like not me. And she had suspected it for a while.

[81] That even there was something wrong with Kimmy or that Kimmy was not Kimmy.

[82] She was someone else.

[83] There was something about her that was very, like much more wrong than any of us really wanted to admit.

[84] And so all I knew to do then was I needed to talk to my fiance and figure out what was going on.

[85] But about 10 to 15 minutes later, he calls me and my roommates are still in the room.

[86] He calls me and he goes, what's going on?

[87] And the tone, he sounds kind of quiet and he's just like, hey, is everything okay?

[88] And I said, well, I think so.

[89] Because at that point, I'm still waiting to hear back from Kimmy.

[90] I hadn't heard anything.

[91] She hadn't sent me the picture I'd asked for.

[92] I said, you still haven't sent me what I've asked for.

[93] I'm asking for one thing and I will wait until I get that one thing.

[94] And he's like, hey, what's going on?

[95] And I'm like, well, I'm not quite sure right now what's going on with you.

[96] And he's like, well, and at this point it was 12 o 'clock.

[97] And we had a dance lesson for our wedding scheduled at like 12 .30.

[98] And I hadn't spoken with him all morning.

[99] And he said, well, I was, my alarm just went off.

[100] My notification for our dance lesson.

[101] And I had lost track of time all morning because he claimed that he had been in Bible and worship time all morning.

[102] didn't see the passage.

[103] Give me a fucking break.

[104] So spiritual.

[105] I mean, it's Sunday morning, Alyssa.

[106] So he said, what's going on?

[107] My roommates are standing there.

[108] He's on speakerphone.

[109] He doesn't know that my two roommates are right there listening to everything.

[110] And I said, well, I have been talking with Kimmy.

[111] And he goes, okay, long pause.

[112] And I said, he goes, so what do, what is, where's that going?

[113] And I said, well, I'm waiting for something from her.

[114] and then you just hear silence and he goes okay long silence and i look at my roommates like where do i go from here and they look at me and one is like he's thinking he's processing this is not the voice of somebody who's confused this is the voice of somebody who's thinking really really quickly and he goes um okay what do you what do you need from her and i said and i said well i've asked her for a certain picture and i still haven't received it and he just goes quiet he goes okay um what happens if you don't get that from her and I said well I don't know babe we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there and he just goes okay um in the meantime what do you need from me are we like are we going to our dance lesson and I said no you know I don't I don't think that would be the best idea right now I really just want to see what happens with this and I'm still waiting pretty much and it was like okay um I said do you think there's anything you can do about this and he was like, I'm going to, I'm going to make some phone calls.

[115] I'm going to try.

[116] And I see, I think that'd be a good idea.

[117] You know, if your friends really, really care about you as much as it's been made very clear that they do, I think that it's worth a phone call right now.

[118] And he said, what do you want?

[119] And I said, I either need a selfie, like a picture, but I didn't tell them the specifics.

[120] And I said, or he said, oh, he goes, it's like, what do you want?

[121] Like, is it a face time call you want?

[122] Is it like, what do you need?

[123] And I said, actually, yeah, now that you mention it, that would be great.

[124] But I'm not as smooth and firm as I am telling it right now.

[125] And the moment, I'm shaking.

[126] Like, I was talking like this, yes, that actually, yeah, that'd be good.

[127] And I'm still, everything that I'm saying, the tone that I'm saying it with is, I love you, I'm here with you, I am for you, I need some answers and I need your help.

[128] But is that where you were at in your mind?

[129] Nope.

[130] No, I'm absolutely freaking the F out, thinking I might be talking to a psychopath, like, who's been in cahoots with more psychopaths to lie to me or something.

[131] And your roommates are there with you.

[132] Yep.

[133] They're right there.

[134] And I, because I started thinking, okay, if Kimmy and Brian are this, like, knocking futz, he has got to have a screw loose if he's been this close with them.

[135] And there's no amount of backpedaling that he can do now to tell me, oh, no, yeah, they are crazy.

[136] I shouldn't bring them as friends.

[137] When you're crying together at night.

[138] Yeah.

[139] Talking, being talked off a ledge by this person that is a terrible person.

[140] So he says, okay, I've got some phone calls to make.

[141] And I said, hey, can you send me an updated phone number for Brian just so that I know that I have the right one?

[142] And he sends it to me. So I try to call Brian and it doesn't go anywhere.

[143] It's a bad number.

[144] It says this number, blah, blah, blah, does not exist.

[145] Well, I texted my fiance and said, hey, have you called them?

[146] And he said, I've done, I have left voicemails on both numbers is what he said.

[147] And that's when I knew he's lying.

[148] You can't leave voicemails on both numbers.

[149] Because neither one...

[150] Kimmy didn't have a voicemail set up and the other one wasn't even a good number.

[151] At this point, I don't know who I'm dealing with.

[152] So my instinct is don't poke a bear, don't corner a lion, you know, kind of thing.

[153] So I wanted everything to be smooth.

[154] I wanted to set up the best possible situation to get as much truth as possible.

[155] So I wanted him to feel safe.

[156] I didn't want him to feel like I was on to him in any way.

[157] He was definitely scrambling, but I didn't want him to see me as the threat.

[158] Just like, I'm the safe place.

[159] Tell me exactly what's going on.

[160] so I can get the full information, and then I'm calling the cops and getting the hell out of here.

[161] He came to my place first.

[162] Comes into my room, and we sit at the foot of my bed to talk, and I started it off with, okay, we need to talk about the Kimmy thing.

[163] He stops me, and he said, that involves somebody who is not here right now, can't, you know, vouch for them.

[164] I can't vouch for them.

[165] They can't vouch for themselves.

[166] Set that aside, and let's talk about the fact that my brother, and his wife are ready right now to FaceTime with you and your parents and vouch for me and explain why we cannot postpone this wedding and why it would be actually not biblical.

[167] And I'm thinking, you say that word one more time and I am going to freaking karate chop your neck.

[168] We need to talk to my brother and his wife.

[169] They're ready and waiting like right this minute.

[170] And I said, actually, that's not the issue at hand.

[171] let's bring Kimmy back to the middle and I kind of make this motion in front of him like let's look at what's on the plate right now because everything else around it hinges on this more than you think it does and he just kind of went quiet and sat back and went okay and I said babe I want you to know I love you I'm in this we're going to work through it but I need you to help me and I need you to give me some clarification because now I know that I don't know the full truth there's something I don't know.

[172] But I also know that I am emotional, like, I'm not safe.

[173] This is not what I thought it was anymore.

[174] I'm going to have to find a way out.

[175] Nothing is what I thought it was.

[176] But I need him to not know that.

[177] Right.

[178] Of course.

[179] And I also know that, like, physically, I'm safe.

[180] My roommate's got her phone.

[181] She's on the other side of the door.

[182] You know, we're good.

[183] And I kind of just had the sense of God's in this.

[184] He's taken me this far.

[185] It's going to be ugly, but we're going to be okay.

[186] and he said that yes I'm taught he said I just finally goes what are you asking like what do you need from me and I just went babe please are Brian and Kimmy real people like are they friends of yours and I felt seriously I felt like an idiot saying asking this I felt so stupid and crazy to even assume or like propose this and he calm as a cucumber looks me straight in the eye and he says Brian and Kimmy are real people they're friends of mine, they have, you know, crazy lives and they will go off the grid.

[187] He goes, honestly, they are those people that will just ditch.

[188] And I went, then what, wait, no, that's not consistent with what I know of them.

[189] Why are they not sending me a picture right now?

[190] Why is she not texting me?

[191] And he goes, honestly, you might never hear from them ever again.

[192] And he just looked me right in the eye.

[193] And he says that with this like, I wish I could save you, you know, from that kind of thing.

[194] There's nothing I can do.

[195] And I went, babe, do you see how that's very mean?

[196] Like, that's very dysfunctional of your.

[197] your friends that they're gone forever.

[198] And he goes, honestly, terrible people.

[199] Like, I should have never associated myself with them.

[200] And I went, no, please, like, tell me, like, I don't think we're at the full.

[201] I knew we weren't the full truth.

[202] And I'm just like, but this doesn't add up, babe, this is so weird that she suddenly stopped texting me. Have I been talking to them the whole time or have been talking to someone else?

[203] And he's like, you've been talking to them.

[204] He looked me down the eye and told me that.

[205] And then it kind of, I don't remember where the conversation took a turn, but it turned into, well, there have been this time.

[206] one time or two, where Kimmy was overwhelmed.

[207] Keep in mind she's raising three kids and running a business and jet lagged.

[208] They're moving country to country.

[209] So she wouldn't always know what to say back to me because she's also not a girly girl and doesn't know how to like relate to other women, is surrounded by guys.

[210] So Brian would see the text on the phone and be like, hey, bud, and shoot it over to my fiance.

[211] Be like, here's what, here's the conversation that's happening between your fiance and, you know, Kimmy.

[212] and my fiance would say, here's what, you know, I would say kind of thing.

[213] Or sometimes Brian would take Kimmy's phone and reply for her.

[214] That was what his explanation was when I said she kind of sounds like a dude sometimes.

[215] He said, oh, yeah, those times where you got like regular emojis because they were texting from Go phones and stuff.

[216] And I said, why am I getting iPhone emojis?

[217] You know, stuff like that.

[218] And he'd be like, oh, that was when it was Brian.

[219] What an ass, you know, he would take her phone and text you as her.

[220] And I'm like, do you see where that's pretty messed up thing?

[221] Like, do you see where a couple shouldn't do that to somebody?

[222] And that was very manipulative toward me. And he'd go, oh, absolutely.

[223] Like, he had to be ahead of me. So he would say, oh, it's very dysfunctional and it's not okay.

[224] And it will stop.

[225] Never, like, it'll never happen again.

[226] And I'm like, yeah, no, no shit.

[227] It won't happen again.

[228] Yeah.

[229] But then he left.

[230] And the plan was, and it's still, this is Mother's Day.

[231] It's, you know, so he's going to go home and love.

[232] This is Mother's Day?

[233] Yeah, Sunday's Mother's Day.

[234] My family, all they know.

[235] know is that I just, you know, asked him to call off the wedding.

[236] So bless my mom's heart.

[237] She's not expecting to see or hear from me today.

[238] She doesn't know what's going on.

[239] She's at church in a service where the speaker has a crazy testimony and she's talking about how sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand when it comes to your children and you've got to protect them.

[240] So my mom, not confrontational, not an attention seeker, I found out later, is standing up in the service with her fist in the air going, yes!

[241] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[242] She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

[243] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[244] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[245] What happens next?

[246] Depends on who you ask.

[247] Was it a crime of passion?

[248] If you believe the prosecution, it's because, because the evidence was so compelling.

[249] This was clearly an intentional act.

[250] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[251] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[252] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[253] Everyone had an opinion.

[254] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[255] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case Law and Crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[256] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[257] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[258] I'm Dan Tibersky.

[259] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[260] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[261] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[262] She's like, I can't.

[263] A mystery illness, bizarre stuff.

[264] symptoms and spreading fast.

[265] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[266] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[267] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[268] Well, you were holding something back.

[269] Intentionally.

[270] Yeah, well, yeah.

[271] No, it's hysteria.

[272] It's all in your head.

[273] It's not physical.

[274] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[275] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[276] Or is it something else entirely?

[277] Something's wrong here.

[278] Something's not right.

[279] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[280] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[281] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[282] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[283] They find out they're at home waiting for texts.

[284] And so my close friends are texting me and my roommate that I'm close with has my mom's number and is texting my mom saying like real -life update, real -time updates going, here's what she's doing.

[285] We've just found out that something's up with Kimmy.

[286] She may not be who we thought.

[287] Like, she was, you know, that kind of stuff.

[288] I can only imagine what's going on in my parents' house right then because there's just a fire, you know.

[289] And once I realized that something was off with Kimmy and that I was being lied to, I didn't know the full truth, I was like, okay, this is done.

[290] So maybe we're going to get to the bottom of this.

[291] But in my mind, I'm going to lead him to believe that we're still going to stay together because I don't.

[292] know who I'm dealing with, but we're actually done, done, and it is canceled.

[293] So that word got back to my parents through my roommate or a friend or something.

[294] I texted one of my close friends who was checking up on me, and I was just like, I've just found out stuff that I can't even, I can't text.

[295] I just can't, but it's off.

[296] It's done.

[297] And I'm figuring my life out right now.

[298] When that word got back to my parents, I guess my dad, like, laid his head on the table and because he was just so kind of relieved, but also exhausted and also going, oh my gosh, I was like, thank God I was right, because my parents really weren't convinced that they were doing the right thing.

[299] They were sick and hoping they were wrong.

[300] Of course.

[301] They wanted the wedding to happen.

[302] They invested thousands of dollars.

[303] Not the money has anything to do with it, but of course, in my brain, this is what I'm thinking.

[304] So that night, my family is celebrated Mother's Day without me. And my mom's just like, my best Mother's Day gift was knowing that my child had seen what was going on and you know canceled their wedding um i decided to drive over to his our house in sack to get more because once my no bullshit roommate came home and we're all kind of talking they were just like mm -mm you don't have the full story i drive over to our house which is like six minutes down by yourself yeah yeah and because at this point i feel physically safe He has never made me feel physically unsafe, which sounds like absolute insanity now.

[305] But in the moment, I was running on instinct and I knew.

[306] Because I also knew that he still thought everything was fine.

[307] He still thought he had me. So I knew he wouldn't go to anything extreme.

[308] And I wasn't going to tell him in person, we're done.

[309] I'm running.

[310] You're insane.

[311] I wasn't going to do any of that.

[312] And I sit on the couch with him and I basically come out like, okay, babe, I'm here to get more of the truth, like more of the story.

[313] I'm still here with you, I'm still for you, I still love you, but I just, I need to give you more of a chance, you know, to come clean.

[314] And he stuck with the, you know, Brian and Kimmy are real people, but it became, well, he'd be at work on the computer and they were using apparently Google Voice accounts, which you can use from phone to phone.

[315] It's an online thing.

[316] You can just sign up for it and you get a free phone number.

[317] So he had access to their Google Voice accounts because oftentimes they would shoot him over the conversation that I was having with Kimmy and he would be like super casual switch over and just type type type type type here's what I'd say shoot it back over to them and they'd be like eh looks good which even if it were true so messed up so weird I know oh my gosh and I would I would say babe don't you see how that's kind of weird like actually really weird and he'd go oh I know super dysfunctional I'm never going to be friends with them again I'm so glad they're out of my life and that we can move forward from this and still be together.

[318] In my mind, I'm thinking, this is either all them or all you.

[319] They either are real or they're not at this point.

[320] I just know it.

[321] And it became the large majority of the conversations I had with Kimmy and Brian were actually with him.

[322] So now in my mind, I'm going back over nine months of very honest personal conversation thinking, how much of that was him?

[323] Was that conversation him?

[324] Was the cellulite conversation him?

[325] Was the time that I sent a photo of me in my wedding dress to Kimmy?

[326] Was that him?

[327] Did he see my gown on me?

[328] Like, did he, was he the one who pitched the ESV study Bible to buy for him?

[329] Did he feed me all of the phone numbers for his 30th birthday surprise?

[330] I need to know.

[331] Who was him and who was them?

[332] Or did he, was it then, but he went back and read all the conversations.

[333] these are all the thoughts that are just shooting bullet holes in my mind right now and I'm sitting on the couch with him and I'm like I've got to get out of this house yeah I have to get away from here I'm not safe anymore and it ended with the high 90 something percentile of the conversations were actually him next time and so my parents are on the other end going and my friends they're like calling me saying cut him off break up and I'm like then okay okay I I will, I will.

[334] I get off my back.

[335] Everybody, let me handle this.

[336] But my dad goes into military mode, and he's like, no, you're not safe.

[337] We don't care about someone else's feelings now.

[338] We're going to come in guns blazing, and we're going to get you out of Sacramento.

[339] And we're not going to treat this like a breakup.

[340] We're treating this like a rescue.

[341] Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[342] All the music this season is by the band Gladra.

[343] A special thank you to Sarah, her family, and friends for participating in this series.

[344] Check out Sarah's personal blog, Space and Purpose, linked in the show notes.

[345] Thank you to Alyssa Doyle for her hype, zen, support, and story editing assistance.

[346] A special shout out to my husband Michael and our three amazing kids, Jude, Ruby, and Ozzie, for cheering me on every step of the way.

[347] Thank you to Ryan Doyle, who's always encouraging me and just surprised me with a something Was Wrong website coming soon.

[348] Follow the hashtag Something Was Wrong pod on Instagram to stay up to date on this series.

[349] There is also now a Something Was Wrong Facebook group that was started by a listener, Jen.

[350] Jen, you're awesome.

[351] I'm not in the group because anxiety.

[352] However, you can join the group by going to Facebook and entering something was wrong into the search bar.

[353] Today's episode is sponsored by Picture Play.

[354] Use offer code SWW to get $3 off.

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[356] Thank you so much.

[357] Every share truly helps us spread the word on this important topic, and we are so incredibly thankful for all of the support.

[358] If you would like to share your story with us, ask us a question, or share what has stood out to you so far this season, You can now call us and leave voicemail.

[359] You can remain anonymous or share your first name and location.

[360] Our number is 1 .3239 -579 -5678.

[361] You can also find this number in the show notes.

[362] Your message may be shared on a future episode.

[363] If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 Safe.

[364] like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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[366] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.

[367] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[368] I'm Sachi Cole.

[369] I'm Sarah Haggy, and we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[370] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King and no real product to push.

[371] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind them.

[372] their backs.

[373] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[374] Follow Scam Fluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[375] You can listen to scampluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.