T.I.

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[3] Oh, Monica Padman's here.

[4] So listen, gang, here's the story.

[5] We have an interview with TI, known as TI, or Tip, or his birth name was Clifford Joseph Harris.

[6] And since we recorded this interview, he was on another podcast and said some stuff about taking his daughter to the doctor.

[7] There was a lot of blowback from that.

[8] I want to state, for the record, I have a different opinion than the one he stated in that interview.

[9] We don't agree on that.

[10] But at the same time, I find him incredibly fascinating.

[11] His story is very, very interesting.

[12] It's also worth noting, I think, before you listen, that I've talked to him since this.

[13] And he told me, for whatever this is worth, that he was exaggerating and also trying to be funny on that podcast, so I don't know how much of that he would stand by.

[14] But we're not really here to say.

[15] We're not here to say.

[16] And in fact, if you would like kind of a trial of that statement where it gets examined in depth, you should check out Red Table Talk with Jada Pinkett.

[17] She had Tip and his wife Tiny on, and they discussed this at length.

[18] But again, this interview happened before that.

[19] So if you're interested in the world of TI and his life story.

[20] How he got where he is today.

[21] It's very interesting.

[22] This is by all measures a really wonderful interview.

[23] Very much so, yes.

[24] Yes, so we chose to release it and, you know, again, I don't agree with what T .I. said about that specific thing, but I also like TIP quite a bit and enjoyed talking to him.

[25] So, yes.

[26] Anything else?

[27] You want to say one again?

[28] No, I think that's great.

[29] Just to be open and honest here, there was a conversation we had privately about maybe not releasing this interview.

[30] Right.

[31] During this hoopla, and I am very, very happy that we are releasing it.

[32] I think his story is incredibly unique, and we have not had anyone on our show thus far that has a life like his.

[33] So it's important, I think, for people to be exposed to all different kinds of stories.

[34] Yeah.

[35] So I'm glad that we're doing it.

[36] Me too.

[37] Please enjoy Ti.

[38] Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[39] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[40] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[41] He's an armchair expert.

[42] He's an upchair expert.

[43] So Tip, you're the first person to arrive with their own bottle of tequila.

[44] And nothing could make me happier.

[45] You're educating me on it.

[46] It's Don Julio, 1942.

[47] Yes.

[48] And I can tell, just by looking at the packaging, this is a premier liquor right here.

[49] Very exclusive.

[50] It's extremely smooth.

[51] And now, does it preclude you from getting a hangover?

[52] Yeah, well, you drink enough of anything, you're going to get a hangover.

[53] See, that's what I kind of think.

[54] You drink enough of anything.

[55] Some can get you a hangover after two drinks and some it may take 10.

[56] Yes.

[57] But if you drink enough of anything, no matter how good it is, you're going to get a hangover.

[58] Well, first and foremost, let's just say.

[59] that you have, what a voice you have.

[60] I mean, really, I could throw you an encyclopedia right now and go tip, go crazy.

[61] Just read this motherfucker to me. The smoothness is so nice.

[62] As nice as the tequila.

[63] It really is.

[64] It pairs nicely with your voice.

[65] I appreciate it.

[66] There's serendipity.

[67] Yes, and I want you to know that Monica is from Atlanta.

[68] I am.

[69] So you have a comrade here in the attic.

[70] That's right.

[71] What part of Atlanta are you from?

[72] Oh, here's where it's going to fall apart.

[73] No, I know where I'm from.

[74] I know.

[75] Duluth.

[76] Do you know Duluth?

[77] No. No, no, no, no. It's not.

[78] Suburbs of Atlanta outside the perimeter, half hour outside Atlanta.

[79] But you did all your hanging out and stuff in Atlanta.

[80] I didn't.

[81] I mean, I wish I did.

[82] I wish I could say yes.

[83] But I just, you know, I was just a kid running around the suburbs.

[84] Well, and then Athens.

[85] Because you went to U .G. I went to UGA.

[86] That's dope.

[87] Yeah.

[88] Atlanta, though.

[89] I mean, I wish I did.

[90] Still not exactly Atlanta.

[91] Well.

[92] Now, do you watch the show, Atlanta?

[93] Yeah, I watch it.

[94] I hadn't stayed through, like in bench, watch it through an entire season.

[95] But because it's a week -to -week thing, and it's not like a Netflix, like a streaming platform where you can watch the whole.

[96] Yeah, FX is hard to work out for some reason.

[97] I usually catch about three -four episodes.

[98] a season.

[99] Did you see the one where they went to Helen?

[100] Yes.

[101] You did, right?

[102] I did.

[103] It was for the German kind of thing.

[104] Yeah, yeah, I saw that.

[105] And now I've been there and as has Monica, have you been up there?

[106] No, no, no, not really interested.

[107] Yeah.

[108] That's fair.

[109] Yeah.

[110] I can definitely see that.

[111] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[112] Well, I fucking love that show.

[113] Do you think it's a pretty good accurate portrayal of living in Atlanta?

[114] I think it captures some accurate portrayals.

[115] I think the perspective from which it's being told is a lot different from my own.

[116] From your own.

[117] You know what I mean?

[118] But I can still see glimpses of myself.

[119] Yeah, well, you're an artistic guy.

[120] So I guess, and again, I'm just, I'm projecting onto him.

[121] I don't really know him, Donald.

[122] He's a very talented brother.

[123] And I think he did capture a viewpoint of the city that has never been shown.

[124] before.

[125] If you recall the episode where Paperboy was trying to get a haircut and he was with his barber all day.

[126] Yeah, yeah.

[127] That is an accurate depiction of Atlanta.

[128] Yeah, he had to run like 30 errands before he could do this haircut.

[129] And got 50 jobs.

[130] You know, got anything you want.

[131] Barbers, they are the most resourceful people.

[132] Uh -huh.

[133] Well, I'll tell you, I've spent a bunch of time in Atlanta when I was younger because I worked for GM.

[134] That's neither here nor there.

[135] But we had to do a lot of car shows in Atlanta.

[136] And I'm from Detroit, but if you were from Detroit, you'd be giving me the Monica Shakedown, because really I'm from about 25 miles outside of Detroit.

[137] But I did live downtown Detroit when I graduated high school.

[138] You know the scenes in Atlanta where I'm like, this is authentic as fuck.

[139] It's just the gas station scenes.

[140] Just hanging at the gas station.

[141] I can't tell you how many hours I logged at a gas station, just kind of waiting for shit to go down.

[142] And it always went down.

[143] It never lets you down.

[144] Yeah.

[145] There's always something brewing at the gas station.

[146] True.

[147] Gas stations, liquor stores, and the hat wing spots.

[148] And people are on different levels, right?

[149] So some people are like eight hours into partying.

[150] Some people just kicked off.

[151] And there's all this intersections of people, different energies going on.

[152] Ends of moments, beginnings of others.

[153] An apex of culture.

[154] Yeah, yeah.

[155] Now, I think strategically I would have pulled this out towards the end of this interview.

[156] But I'm going to launch right into it.

[157] Come on, let's do it.

[158] Here we are.

[159] You come up a lot on here.

[160] Oh.

[161] Do you know this?

[162] Does this filter through to you?

[163] No. Okay, here's how you come up all the time.

[164] My wife has the strangest list of dream partners.

[165] Are you serious?

[166] Not strange.

[167] It is strange.

[168] I'm on it.

[169] No, no, no. I'll let you.

[170] I hope so.

[171] I've met with her for 12 years.

[172] I assume I'm on it.

[173] I'll read you the list and you tell me if you think it's strange.

[174] Okay, let's hear.

[175] I see the unifying characteristic.

[176] Okay, let's hear.

[177] Okay.

[178] So, Vincent Donoffrey.

[179] Peter Dinklage, Riz Ahmed, and then Tip.

[180] Yeah, I think I might be like, I think I'm a culmination of like all of them put together in some way.

[181] I have a theory.

[182] Okay, let's hear it.

[183] She went to private school, then she went straight to musical theater.

[184] And she's a good girl, and she likes some danger.

[185] She is attracted to some danger.

[186] Okay.

[187] So I'm an ex -drug addict, fuck up, hillbilly.

[188] Right.

[189] So there's a little bit of danger.

[190] And it's way out of her comfort zone.

[191] I think it might trigger maybe a little insecurity like, is this bad motherfucker going to like me?

[192] Or am I too goody -goody?

[193] Right.

[194] And the same way you and I will meet like a goody -goody and be like, oh, am I too trashy for her?

[195] She's going to like me. There's like this intrigue, right?

[196] Hard to have.

[197] I get it.

[198] I get it.

[199] Right?

[200] So I think that danger unifies that group.

[201] Now, I can't speak on Riz Ahmed, but I know Vincent and I are friends, and he's a dangerous man. Right, right.

[202] He's a dangerous man. I think I'm a reformed.

[203] Me too.

[204] dangerous.

[205] That's her preference.

[206] Yeah.

[207] You activated some things in her.

[208] You guys work together.

[209] Let me start.

[210] Let me lay some ground.

[211] Let me lay some back story.

[212] Context.

[213] Yeah.

[214] You guys were on a show called House of Lies together.

[215] Yeah.

[216] And you were love interests.

[217] Yes.

[218] You can't think about that.

[219] You were in a pool making out and stuff.

[220] Oh, I think fucking in the pool.

[221] Well, that may not have been an innuendo of sorts.

[222] Okay.

[223] So anyways, she...

[224] I think you were there that day.

[225] I think, well, I left for the fucking scene.

[226] I think you were there, though.

[227] I didn't want to crowd her during that.

[228] I did stop by.

[229] You were on set quite often.

[230] That's where I came to know you.

[231] Okay, so I wondered if you even remembered meeting me, because I remember meeting you.

[232] Sure.

[233] I'm intrigued by you.

[234] Well, thank you.

[235] Yeah, yeah.

[236] I think you're very interesting yourself.

[237] Oh, thank you.

[238] Great.

[239] Oh, this is going to be great.

[240] It is.

[241] Because as I learned about you today, I have this problem.

[242] Talk to me. I have this problem where I generally, want to relate to people.

[243] Okay.

[244] You know, I'm not trying to look at the things that we don't have a comment.

[245] I'm trying to look at the things that I can really relate to you and feel what you may be have felt.

[246] That makes sense?

[247] And so I'm going to propose that you and I are quite similar at some point.

[248] It's a crazy theory and it'll involve a lot of projection, which Monica hates.

[249] But I think you and I have some things.

[250] Okay.

[251] Let's hear him.

[252] Well, first of all, my wife likes both of us a lot.

[253] That's a good start.

[254] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[255] That's a good start.

[256] The greatest journey begins with the first step.

[257] Yes.

[258] Now, you were born, you were brought home from the hospital to Alabama, somewhere in Alabama.

[259] No, hell no. You weren't born in Alabama?

[260] Ever.

[261] Ever?

[262] No. You're a big Roll Tide fan and all that?

[263] No, not at all.

[264] No, no dogs.

[265] Oh, yeah.

[266] Hell yeah.

[267] Well, I think you're shifting gears here because I have no history.

[268] With Alabama.

[269] With Alabama at all, except for I did sign, you know, one of the greatest talents that I've found in Dobie, who is the king of Alabama.

[270] Okay.

[271] He passed away.

[272] He did?

[273] Yeah, yeah, yeah, he passed away, but we still recognize him as the king of Alabama.

[274] So that's my connection to Alabama, Montgomery, to be exact.

[275] Now, is this story apocryphal, or did the guy from Creed try to commit suicide by jumping off of a...

[276] This is absolutely true, right?

[277] So the guy, the lead singer from Creed, I guess?

[278] Yeah, Stapp, Scott Stap.

[279] He jumped off of a balcony trying to commit suicide, and Tip found him.

[280] Wow.

[281] And what he claims is that...

[282] I saved his life.

[283] Well, I just talked about it continuing to try to joke.

[284] Okay.

[285] I didn't talk about it, but I kind of like, yo, yo, come on, dude.

[286] Oh, wow.

[287] I was smoking a joint with my buddy Phil, God rest it did.

[288] And we hear moaning from above, you know, because it was a half -covered balcony.

[289] We're smoking and we hear some moaning and groaning and grunting and mumbling.

[290] And I look at him.

[291] He looks at me. and we go further out into the exposed area and look up and see the person that is like his legs were obviously broken so he was trying to like move with his arms and I'm like yo what's up chill yeah and he started talking to me well his story really quick if I can interject is that okay you had an Alabama hand on and he said roll tide I might have had an Alabama head there we go there's something there was a kernel I made oh it could have been in Atlanta head and he was so fucked up.

[292] Yeah.

[293] That's true.

[294] That sounds more likely.

[295] It could have been a burgundy Atlanta head that he thought was.

[296] Yeah.

[297] You know.

[298] Similar colors.

[299] And similar, similar fonts on the A. True.

[300] Yeah.

[301] Still very, very different.

[302] Couldn't be more different.

[303] But that's not the, can I say another thing?

[304] So that's not the only interaction that Tip has had with someone trying to commit suicide.

[305] So one time you were watching the news?

[306] No. was in my car.

[307] I was leaving my house.

[308] I was getting in my car, leaving my house to go shoot a video, headed downtown.

[309] And on the radio, they kind of like, emergency, emergency was stopping the radio.

[310] It was emergency broadcast.

[311] There's someone on the building trying to jump, right?

[312] And I'm already headed that way.

[313] And so I'm listening and as they continued to talk about the person and what they knew of the person and some in my spirit just said, see if you could help.

[314] Uh -huh.

[315] I went down, because I know what the building is.

[316] I'm familiar you with the radio station and the people who own the radio station.

[317] So I called them and were like, yo, anything I can do?

[318] And they was like, man, I don't know, man. Dude, he talking like, he?

[319] And so I was like, all, cool.

[320] I'm on the way up there.

[321] So then I parked the car, walk up, and then the police kind of stopped me at the yellow tape.

[322] I'm like, hey, man, listen, I'm coming to see if I can help.

[323] Uh -huh.

[324] And so then they walked me in past the yellow tape through like the crime scene.

[325] They had like the street blocked off all ways and the negotiator with the, vests in the chain badges and shit and so they walked me in through all of that you know it was around the time in my life where I was kind of known for going to jail a lot sure sure and so my name and face was especially like with the cops they're like we know who you are what the fuck you're doing here yeah yeah it was actually the day before I was going to court oh no kidding it was the day before I was going to court uh and so I was like yo what's up can I help a saying that i heard and i find a lot of truth in is there's no fear in faith if you stepping out on faith you don't know what's going to happen but the fact that you're willing to take that step ain't no fear in that you know what i'm saying you prepared to handle whatever come on the other side it is however it go positive and negative so you were able to talk to him though yeah and he did come down i told him it ain't that bad can't be that bad tell him you know the best is yet to come you're gonna miss it and he he came down wow That's pretty great.

[326] You still went to jail when I went.

[327] The next day.

[328] The next day I still got my 11 months.

[329] You weren't like, hey, net positive, though.

[330] Yeah, I did this, but I did this.

[331] Aren't we, we're back to zero?

[332] The thing is, I don't know why my spirit, like, just move me. But I heard my voice in my head say, see if you can help.

[333] Uh -huh.

[334] I like that.

[335] Me too.

[336] Who knows?

[337] Maybe I would have got 24 months, if not for, you know.

[338] Yeah, exactly.

[339] You don't know.

[340] Okay, so forget about Alabama, but you grew up in Atlanta.

[341] I did.

[342] And you grew up with Grandma and Grandpa?

[343] Grandma, grandpa, aunts, uncles, mom.

[344] Dad was in New York, but I used to spend my summers in New York with my pops.

[345] And he owned a candy store in Harlem or something?

[346] Yeah, yeah, he owned a candy store that was much smaller than this room.

[347] Uh -huh.

[348] But it was his.

[349] And he also owned an apartment building in Harlem as well.

[350] Okay, so here's where it starts.

[351] Here's where my projection starts.

[352] So my mom and dad were divorced.

[353] Okay.

[354] I saw dad, you know, infrequently.

[355] And it left me, well, do you have brothers and sisters?

[356] Yeah, actually, it's my brother's birthday today.

[357] My brother's.

[358] Oh, happy birthday.

[359] Happy birthday, right on.

[360] How old is he?

[361] Is he older?

[362] He's 26 now, I believe.

[363] Oh, he's much younger.

[364] Yeah, he much younger.

[365] Yeah, he's much younger.

[366] Yeah, he turned 39 in September.

[367] Right?

[368] 39 in September.

[369] Yeah.

[370] Well, he might be, let me see.

[371] I think he may be 11 years younger than me. That's substantial.

[372] probably 27 now, something like that.

[373] That was fast math.

[374] Oh, thank you so much.

[375] Not on you.

[376] He did fast math.

[377] Oh, yeah.

[378] Well, he's going to do all this stuff I can do.

[379] We like fast math on the show.

[380] I'm pretty good at math.

[381] That was one of my best subjects.

[382] In my situation, without dad around to say like, good job, son.

[383] You're becoming a man. I really got that from all the dudes around me. Okay.

[384] I was like, what is masculine?

[385] Right of wheeling?

[386] Okay.

[387] Getting a fight?

[388] Okay.

[389] Whatever.

[390] the thing was right yeah yeah sign me up i need to get that at least you knew that those were the things that you needed yeah yeah you actually gave a shit about what does it take to become this yes i just kind of just started saying i'm a man and just start doing shit that i thought me and did you dig what i'm saying i totally dig what you're saying and i think you and i did basically all the same shit is where i'm going with it because we watch this incredible documentary christin and monica and I called The Mask You Live in, and it's all about how we raise boys, right?

[391] Okay.

[392] And it basically said, here's in America how you become a man. Make money.

[393] Right.

[394] Fuck a lot of chicks.

[395] Okay.

[396] Drink excessively or do drugs excessively.

[397] Optional.

[398] And, and fine.

[399] And they turned to me and they were like, what a cliche you are.

[400] And I'm like, I am, dude.

[401] That was the list.

[402] And I'm like, let's go get it.

[403] When I hear that, I hear it differently.

[404] Okay.

[405] I heard provide.

[406] Mm -hmm.

[407] What's the spin on fucking?

[408] The spin on fucking is, Be fruitful.

[409] Spread your seed.

[410] You know what I'm saying?

[411] Spread love.

[412] Provide pleasure.

[413] You know what I mean?

[414] Match energies.

[415] Okay.

[416] That's a beautiful way to look at it.

[417] Connect on a physical and emotional and spiritual level.

[418] Connect.

[419] Be present.

[420] Be present.

[421] Yeah.

[422] You said do a lot of drug.

[423] Or smell the roses.

[424] Smell the roses.

[425] I like that.

[426] I like that.

[427] And defend, protect.

[428] Like, that's how I heard that.

[429] Yeah.

[430] Like, if someone is to stand in a critical position, what is the true difference?

[431] I always have, me and my wife, we go back and fluff about this all the time.

[432] She always tells me to shut up.

[433] What is the difference between chivalry and chauvinism?

[434] Mm -hmm.

[435] It's a very fine line.

[436] Very.

[437] You hear what I'm saying?

[438] I do.

[439] And it's up to us to be monitoring what side of the line we're on.

[440] Sure.

[441] Because I've been on the wrong side of it a bunch of times.

[442] We all have.

[443] But to us, we were being shiverous.

[444] Like, if we tell our wife, hey, listen, you ain't got to worry about working.

[445] Don't do that.

[446] I do that for the both of us.

[447] Like, some women see that it's chivalrous.

[448] Other women see that it's controlling and chauvinistic.

[449] You know, I don't understand where is the line here.

[450] Well, it depends what your lady wants.

[451] That's what I'm saying.

[452] Are you interested, though, in examining why you do these things?

[453] Like, why is it you and I have this code or this thought or what our role should be?

[454] Does it interest you?

[455] Like, where do I get this?

[456] And should I perpetuate it?

[457] And now I got kids.

[458] I have kids too.

[459] Is this something I want to pass on?

[460] Does that interest you?

[461] I'm always interested in learning and growing, evolving.

[462] I'm always interested in that.

[463] I will say that my way's gotten me this far.

[464] I mean, I'd be hard pressed to say that another way would have gotten me farther.

[465] Coming from where I come from, I think a lot of it is environment and circumstance.

[466] You know, I think, at least for me speaking, the way that I am or was was indicative to the environment I had to endure.

[467] Of course.

[468] And I think that had you placed me in a different environment, my skills, talents, and abilities have morphed or presented themselves in different actions.

[469] Yeah, I 100 % agree, because I've had that same thought, but I've often thought, oh, what gets you into the party might not be the thing that keeps you at the party.

[470] Yes, or the thing that elevates the party.

[471] Right.

[472] Yeah, I can dig that.

[473] Like, some definite adjustments that must be made.

[474] Yes.

[475] I'm a self -diagnosed narcissist, though, by the way.

[476] So is he.

[477] So is he.

[478] So I understand.

[479] That's my addiction.

[480] But I was raised by a bunch of undiagnosed narcissists.

[481] Like, for instances, you know, just think about a stern parent.

[482] For me, my grandmama was a complete narcissist.

[483] You know, live in my house, bad by my rules, my way at a highway.

[484] Like, all that is narcissism.

[485] And my father was the same way.

[486] Let's say the quintessential example of, let's say, in a white man's household, what it means to be a stern father, like the 70 show.

[487] The pops in the 70 show?

[488] Yeah, yeah.

[489] That's a narcissist.

[490] Because he's like totalitarian and he's, uh -huh, okay.

[491] Narcissists raise narcissists.

[492] I'm a product of narcissism, but the thing is, I think for you and I, what makes us stronger and more able to adapt is that we recognize our narcissism and we apply it where we need to and we pull it back where we can recognize this.

[493] Here was the breakthrough I had the other day.

[494] I was driving to work and I was like, who am I kidding?

[495] I'm a fucking narcissist.

[496] I think about myself all day long, every second.

[497] of the day.

[498] If you have a problem, I run it through how it's going to affect me, then I can maybe find my way to benevolence and generosity, but it's going to go through what price I got to pay first.

[499] What I heard you say is, I'm willing to help you until it hurts me. That self -preservation type of a thing, that's not necessarily narcissism to me. Now, see, my narcissism, I feel, is more so deeply rooted in the fact that I have better ideas.

[500] You know what I'm saying?

[501] And I'm in ideas guy.

[502] So if you come to me with an idea that makes me feel like it's better than mine, I'm not so stuck in my narcissism that I won't go with your better idea.

[503] However, if you don't have a success in convincing me of this, I'm going to force my idea into the execution because I believe in my idea more than I believe in yours.

[504] And that also makes me a narcissist.

[505] But you've had confirmation that your ideas are good in life.

[506] But you have evidence that So that's not really narcissism.

[507] Which can be dangerous, though.

[508] It can be.

[509] Another successful person, though.

[510] Yeah, yeah.

[511] And I'm still going to go with my idea.

[512] Because I'm willing to fall or fly on my performance.

[513] Yeah.

[514] You see what I'm saying?

[515] Yes.

[516] Okay.

[517] So my big hang up is, and I say this is Monaco all the time, it's inconvenient for most people around me. I will not participate in a bad plan.

[518] I just won't do it.

[519] Everyone can be mad at me, but it's like.

[520] That's right.

[521] If you see the fog, but I see the destination, and you're not willing to follow me, I'm not following you through the fog, because I see where we're going.

[522] So I should be the one leading.

[523] And if I can't lead, then I'm out of it.

[524] I concur.

[525] But I have that, though, because my mom got married a few times.

[526] Okay.

[527] A new dude showed up.

[528] Okay.

[529] With a whole new game plan for the family.

[530] I've never experienced it.

[531] Okay.

[532] It was me and my mom from the whole ride.

[533] The whole ride.

[534] Yeah, just me and her.

[535] So I was the victim of a lot of bad plans.

[536] And I said to myself, soon as I was 18, I'm like, I'm done with fucking bad plans.

[537] Never following another fucking.

[538] I'd rather fall off the cliff and at least I decided to do it.

[539] That's how I feel.

[540] Yeah.

[541] Because I'm going to have to deal with the outcome.

[542] Like, whatever the consequences are from this bad decision, I'm going to have to deal with the outcome.

[543] And I'm going to discipline myself and be able.

[544] to endure whatever the outcome is a lot better if I made the decision, if it was a conscious decision of my own.

[545] Couldn't agree more.

[546] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[547] What's up, guys?

[548] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

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[550] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[551] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[552] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

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[554] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[555] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

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[563] Now, the other thing I would imagine, again, I don't know what grandma and grandpa were doing or your mom was doing, but we grew up pretty, you know, especially at the beginning, my mom left my dad, broke, fucking broke in a welfare building.

[564] All right.

[565] I coveted money.

[566] I never played sports.

[567] I never really, I don't know how to pot willies.

[568] I can ride, but I don't know how to, you know, I didn't really participate in all of those extracurricular.

[569] like those leisurely activities as a child.

[570] When I went outside, I came home from school, put my books down, went outside, and it was about some money.

[571] Yeah.

[572] The example I had was my father.

[573] When I went to my father every summer, and I lived in a lap of luxury, we had cable with all the channels.

[574] The first time I saw CD player, DVD player, was my dad house, and unlimited supplies, like U -hoo's from Florida ceiling.

[575] You know what I'm saying?

[576] They used to wake up on Saturdays and go to this big warehouse where all of the, like, because he had a candy store.

[577] So we go to this big warehouse where all of the convenience stores and everybody buy their supplies and get like wholesale cases of U -hoo's, Welchish, strawberry, and grape and Coca -Cola.

[578] Well, he liked Pepsi's.

[579] You know what I mean?

[580] Versus.

[581] Good thing he wasn't in Atlanta.

[582] When I come to my mom house, we're going to have groceries from, you know, the first to the 15th.

[583] you know, because that's where food stamps come.

[584] And then we're going to make it work.

[585] Grill cheeses and noodles for...

[586] That government cheese, though, is delicious.

[587] I never had it.

[588] Oh, my God.

[589] I want to find out where to buy it.

[590] I never had it.

[591] It came in the brick like Velveeta, but it was American.

[592] See, yeah, I think that's a different level of poor.

[593] I never...

[594] You didn't have that.

[595] We had the food stamps and had to...

[596] But when we went to the store, we got Velveeta.

[597] Okay, good, you know what I'm saying?

[598] Good, good.

[599] Well, it is really good.

[600] The other stuff is terrible, but the cheese is really unique.

[601] I've tweeted about it, and a lot of people, like, can relate.

[602] They want that government cheese.

[603] I don't want it.

[604] I don't want nothing from the government.

[605] In my coveting wealth, I shoveled driveways.

[606] You know, I was always just trying to make some money.

[607] That's what it was always about.

[608] And you did candy.

[609] Yep, from fourth grade to seventh.

[610] Mm -hmm.

[611] And then you fenced some merchandise, we'll call it.

[612] Yeah, yeah.

[613] Well, you know, I call it.

[614] It was a concierge buy and sale.

[615] You dig what I'm saying.

[616] Yeah, it was like a consignment boutique of sorts.

[617] a redistribution of wealth as well maybe we were all poor I did still from poor people those kids as parents probably I don't know not but they were well off let's just say they were better off than me because they had the coat and I didn't so you took someone's coat I did not oh got it okay so what is the story so basically I was known as the guy in school I sold candy and so I handled money I had people on different halls selling candy for me by the time I got the sixth grade.

[618] So I sold candy on 7th grade hall, eight grade hall.

[619] I had lockers in different halls and I had people.

[620] I would give them $25 worth of candy.

[621] Uh -huh.

[622] And if they sold all 25, I give them $5.

[623] So that kind of morphed itself into a reapplication of skills.

[624] You know, when you dress out for P .E. Yes.

[625] So a lot of kids, when they dress out for P .E., of course they leave their sneakers and they're careless.

[626] Yeah, sure.

[627] So different kids would go in the locker room and steal coats.

[628] Got it.

[629] And bring them back to me. And I would give them, I think it was $20 for a starter jacket and like $25 for some joints, $25 .30 for some jars.

[630] And I would take these items or goods that I buy.

[631] Sundries.

[632] Absolutely.

[633] And my inventory.

[634] And I would go and sell them on the other side of time.

[635] where my grandmother stayed, which was the west side.

[636] And these kids went to different schools.

[637] Yeah, so no one, there was no trail.

[638] Right, right.

[639] Wow, what a business.

[640] I probably sell for 40.

[641] Right, made a little profit.

[642] And what I bought for 30, I'd sell for 50 or 60.

[643] So he quickly recognized margins.

[644] So the candy had like a 25 % margin.

[645] The fenced goods had maybe a 50 % margin.

[646] I mean, my candy margins got up to, it depends.

[647] I saw that candy bar.

[648] made closer to 100 % because, of course, if it's 299 and they give you 12 candy bars for 299, you can sell those for 50 cents easy.

[649] Oh, yeah.

[650] Which is 100 % flip.

[651] Yeah.

[652] But candy bars are hard to keep in form throughout a school day.

[653] Especially in Atlanta.

[654] Sure, yeah.

[655] You can't help to keep it form.

[656] So nobody wants to buy some much candy bar full price.

[657] All right.

[658] Right.

[659] Wow.

[660] So quality control.

[661] Yeah.

[662] Quality control.

[663] So I learned all these things.

[664] And then the fencing market was like a 35 %, 30 to 40%.

[665] I could only get as much as the quality of my inventory.

[666] So if this is a more worn pair of Jordans, then I'm not going to be able to get as much for it.

[667] And if this is a jacket with a stain or a hole on it, you know what I'm saying?

[668] I'm not going to be able to get as much for it.

[669] But when I ran into crack.

[670] Yeah, here we go.

[671] That's where we're going.

[672] That's when I kind of turned into a drug dealer.

[673] Right.

[674] And this is young.

[675] This is like 14.

[676] Oh, six grade.

[677] So 12 years old.

[678] Yeah, 13.

[679] 13.

[680] Okay.

[681] So 13.

[682] And now you realize, oh, this is 100.

[683] This is 300 % markup.

[684] At first, yeah, it was.

[685] My first play was about a 300 %.

[686] I turned 50 to 150.

[687] Or 140.

[688] Uh -huh.

[689] You know what I mean?

[690] Give a take.

[691] And now here's where we're on different.

[692] sides of the supply chain, but I've bought a lot of crack in my, in my youth.

[693] It fucked with my worldview.

[694] I don't know if it fucked with your worldview.

[695] How so?

[696] Because I'm sure it did.

[697] I just want to see if it's the same way that it fucked up yours.

[698] Yeah.

[699] So what you see immediately, and again, it's, it's much worse on my side of that equation than yours, which is, oh, I'm looking around and, well, this is me. I mean, I'm looking at who else is buying it.

[700] I can't pretend I'm something other than what all these other people are doing right so we're all desperate as fuck we're in primal mode we've probably been out for two days you know the worst layer of being an animal on planet earth for me i'm speaking for me and what i was around i'm trying to i'm thinking seeing what humans are capable of what what what level of desperation and what they'll do to feed that right just being aware of like oh man we as a animal we can get pretty fucking dark we can get pretty dark we can get pretty low and so So for me, it was like, okay, good to know.

[701] A lot of the people on this planet are desperate in doing fucked up shit.

[702] And it's, there's a gnarly sector.

[703] And it infected what I thought of the world.

[704] Like, I met Kristen.

[705] And I didn't think someone like Kristen really existed.

[706] These people live at your house.

[707] You let them live there for free.

[708] They're all fucking using you.

[709] Like my view was so twisted from grown up, kind of broke and then getting into drugs.

[710] And she's slowly over 12 years.

[711] infected me with the good, the good stuff, that the world isn't just all the people that I was with.

[712] I get it.

[713] And so I'm just wondering, being 12 and then up to however many years before you stop.

[714] Well, it was like a teenage job for me, man. By the time I was 21, I was on my way.

[715] You had a record deal.

[716] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[717] So it was like a teenage job.

[718] But dealing with adults, being younger, recognizing the frailty of adults, that had to have permeated some part of your brain.

[719] Well, it made me incredibly cynical.

[720] Right.

[721] That's what I'm saying.

[722] It made me incredibly cynical.

[723] And it also jaded my assessment of danger.

[724] Right.

[725] You know what I mean?

[726] Like, let's just say, you ever been somewhere with someone and you walk into a room and it's incredibly cold and they're like, it was fun to me. You know, like that's kind of, you know, like for instance, if we're standing on the corner and then like, you know, a drive -by happens and, you know, everybody's like, man, I'm like, well, I didn't get hit.

[727] It's not that bad.

[728] You know what I'm saying?

[729] But like literally, our lives were in danger.

[730] Yeah.

[731] Other people would be like, are you fucking kidding me?

[732] I'm like, man, it's not that bad, bro.

[733] Desensitized.

[734] I am desensitized to a certain degree.

[735] You know what I mean?

[736] I've seen so much death.

[737] When people die, I see so many people crying.

[738] And these are people who are near and dear to me. I'm like, man, is it wrong?

[739] Am I wrong?

[740] Because I'm not crying?

[741] Is there something wrong with me?

[742] Too.

[743] And, but.

[744] That, too, was my guess that, like, so someone close from recovery will die.

[745] And I'll be like, yeah, that's what happens.

[746] Yeah, it's a part of the process.

[747] That's what happens.

[748] I don't really know.

[749] But, again, I'm not overly emotional.

[750] I'm a little bit like, well, there, but for the grace of God, go I, I'm bombed, but it ain't me today.

[751] Thank God.

[752] You know what?

[753] I heard my granddad say something that I say to this day, you know what I mean?

[754] I don't say it all the time, but I always think it.

[755] So when his buddies died You know what I mean And his other buddy came to tell him He said man you remember Oh such and such He said yeah yeah yeah I remember I remember him He said man He said man you know he died man What did But damn Could have been worse And so his buddy's like What did?

[756] Well Robert What you mean It could have been worse The man dead How could it have been any worse Yeah Could have been me Yeah Oh man But I don't think it makes you or I a sociopath.

[757] It just makes it like if that's a reality of what's going on, that it just gets normal, right?

[758] I mean, you know, some hurt more than others, but like as a somebody has to be the backbone.

[759] And I think that also when people grieve or when they're overly sad at death, that is a selfish reaction.

[760] You're upset because you won't get to experience.

[761] this person's physical presence.

[762] You're not upset because they're in a worse situation.

[763] You have no idea about it.

[764] They have no pain.

[765] They have no pressure.

[766] They're completely unaware of the fact they've died.

[767] Completely unaware.

[768] We know that they're not in no pain.

[769] We know that they don't have the same problems that we have here on Earth.

[770] So it's selfish for us.

[771] We're only thinking about our pain.

[772] We're not really thinking about their paradise.

[773] And I think that my cynicism led me to that.

[774] Yeah.

[775] coupled with I refuse to dishonor the fact that they were here and I loved it and they were great and we had a you know what I'm saying like I also think there's like this inclination to write off the whole thing as some kind of tragedy and was like well no hold on there was like this great right like I aspire when I think about my children I'm like I hope the only thing I ever think about my children is like oh my god I got to meet these people yeah that's what I felt by nil I had an opportunity to really like spend so much time Nipsey Hustle.

[776] Yeah, even like, you know, to develop a real rapport, real relationship with somebody so dope, so great, so significant.

[777] Yeah.

[778] His thing, and I'm a very, on the fringe of knowing about Nipsey, but he was very into entrepreneurial ship and teaching black men how to handle their finances.

[779] And don't buy this, buy a fourplex.

[780] Right?

[781] That was kind of, is that, is that the thing you guys saw at eye on or had a similar message?

[782] It is, it is.

[783] we had conversations about, you know, how to advance the ecosystem of our communities, how to generate wealth more so than debt.

[784] Because I've built brands, you know what I mean, from, and so that's what he and I used to talk about.

[785] Like, he asked me, how did you take a promotional item and turn it into a full -blown clothing line?

[786] So the promotional item was the hustle gang hoodie.

[787] which is basically the chief with the Hustle Gang, and I gave it away at BET Awards, and then people who I didn't have assigned to some offered to pay for them.

[788] Right.

[789] And I said, okay, well, let's sell them.

[790] After the BET Awards, we printed more, and we just started selling them.

[791] And in three months, we had made like a half a million dollars, selling hoodies.

[792] That's a good bracket.

[793] And then I already had another clothing line by the name of a coup, which I still have.

[794] And my partners in a coup is like, yo, our retailers are at, us about this other thing you have going on, and we have a deal here, what's going on?

[795] Right.

[796] Like, all right, I'll let you in.

[797] And so now we...

[798] That's kind of like if you're in a band, you do a side project, and they find out.

[799] Were you playing with so -and -so?

[800] So, you know, so he said, how did you do that?

[801] And I kind of walked them through it.

[802] I was like, well, you know, I got it to a certain point and I passed it off to people who could do the manufacturing distribution for me and just maintain my equity.

[803] from that conversation it led to the marathon line and the store and like all of that shit because one thing I never did was I never participated in the retail you know what I'm saying so I went to dealers and Macy's and DTLR and other retailers and I sold off and let them go sell it really quick he did it all conceptually you already have this framework which is it's the candy it's you buy a kilo you buy a kilo you buy a kilo you buy a key they're cutting that into ounces.

[804] They're throwing that to guys.

[805] Guys are cutting that into two ounces and they're giving you something.

[806] By the time you get it, seven people have cut it.

[807] That was another aspect I was going to say about just the drug experience is like you also recognize everyone on the chain, on the supply chain.

[808] It just gets shittier and shittier and shittier and shittier and shittier and that's something to take on.

[809] You know, to recognize that.

[810] Like, oh, it's interesting.

[811] It's getting shittier and shittier and shittier.

[812] And the money's being made all along these steps.

[813] And then so the retailer thing is the exact same thing, right?

[814] But they're the last stop.

[815] They're the one selling the rock.

[816] One thing I learned in the dope game as a middleman was to cut out the middleman.

[817] Right.

[818] And jugging, in the sense of a hustler, it means buying low, selling high, without actually having to buy.

[819] You know what I'm saying?

[820] So if I knew a guy that got, for the sake of punishment, let's just say, pounds of cush for 2 ,500.

[821] And I know that it's going to go for 4 ,500.

[822] Then I'm going to go find the guy and say, man, I got it for $4 ,000.

[823] And then just, you know what I'm saying?

[824] Plug the plate, take the $1 ,500.

[825] I didn't even have to jeopardize the first $2 ,500 of my own liquid.

[826] And I walk away free and clear with $1 ,500.

[827] So that tells me to cut out the middleman.

[828] Because if I'm the one doing the bind, I'm like, well, shit, where are you getting it from?

[829] Because if I cut you out, I could probably save me $1 ,500.

[830] Yeah.

[831] So I think that kind of.

[832] Yeah, you're just trying to get closer and closer to the source.

[833] Get closer to the actual source.

[834] Yeah, because they're selling kilos.

[835] Pablo Escobar is selling kilos for like $1 ,000 in bulk.

[836] Right.

[837] Yeah, I don't want to get that close.

[838] You can do it.

[839] You can do it in the clothing game.

[840] Yes, you can.

[841] Yeah, you're not afraid to go be wrong.

[842] I don't want to deal with Pablo.

[843] You could meet Ralph Lauren and be fine.

[844] I could.

[845] Yeah, I sure could.

[846] I think.

[847] But another thing is it taught me the.

[848] quality of garments before I partnered with the manufacturers and distributors and RP 55 that I did partner with before I partnered with them Jason who's my partner in my clothing lines we went out and paid our own money and designed our own stuff and waited on our samples and the shit looked horrible mm -hmm look fucking horrendous I'm not putting my name on that I'm not putting this on you know what I mean so we skipped a lot of steps by partnering with people who already had an infrastructure set up and I could focus on creative and marketing.

[849] Well, that's the thing where you got to police your own self, right, if you're a control freak.

[850] It's like you've got to recognize what you're good at and not be trying to do the stuff you're not good at.

[851] You got to be honest with yourself.

[852] Yeah, which is hard.

[853] Yeah, it's hard for most people to do.

[854] Especially it, like we were saying earlier, if you've had some good ideas that have panned out, you start drinking your own Kool -Aid.

[855] Well, I know what I don't know.

[856] I think that's the, that is the first step to brilliant.

[857] you know, gaining knowledge of the things that you don't have knowledge of.

[858] And that means you're not going to step out there and try to do something that you ain't meant to do.

[859] Like for instance, let's say for this piece of land right here.

[860] If you tell me, man, I'll give you this piece of land for X amount of dollars.

[861] But you have to finish building it in 12 months.

[862] I'm not going to get out there with no hammers and nails.

[863] You dig, you know what I'm saying?

[864] I'm going to go, okay, well, I'm going to need an architect.

[865] Let me call me an architect in here.

[866] I'm going to need a general contractor.

[867] Let me call him in here.

[868] I'm going to get out there.

[869] That's not, this is not even in my, if I were to, like.

[870] I'd love to see that house, though.

[871] If I was to delude, hey, let me tell you.

[872] It wouldn't even be, it would never get, it would never be started.

[873] Right, right.

[874] Because I know that this isn't my talent.

[875] This isn't what I do.

[876] So I want people who are just as talented and what I need done as I am and what But I'm talented in the things that I do.

[877] Okay.

[878] Who is the wordsmith in your family?

[879] Where did you fall in love with words?

[880] I'm the first of my family to do any of this shit, except for go to jail.

[881] I think that I was always advanced.

[882] Even as a child, before school, as a toddler, they used to hand me newspapers and let me read.

[883] Like, I just, I kind of, I don't know.

[884] I caught on easy to fundamental reading, writing, and arithmetic.

[885] It's just like long O's versus short O's, like vowels, consonants, subjects, and predicates, and all of that kind of shit.

[886] I just caught on to it, the orders of operation and algebra and whatnot.

[887] All of that shit just came real easy to me for some reason.

[888] Yeah.

[889] And when you're young and that shit come to you easy and you become ahead of the curve for the rest of your peers and age group.

[890] For that, it got me the opportunity to hang around older people.

[891] So then socially, I began to catch up with my academics.

[892] So I was a head cat socially at a very young age, which offered me different experiences.

[893] And I was like eight when I started rapping, 9, 10, when I actually learned how to write my own songs, like how to count bars, what a hook was, what a bridge was.

[894] I remember being a young kid.

[895] in the apartments.

[896] This was even before my candy trade business.

[897] This was probably first, second grade.

[898] And I'm outside.

[899] I'm playing with the kids in the neighborhood.

[900] We're playing football, two -hand touch in the parking lot.

[901] And the older dude, who was probably about 17, 16, 17, older dude at the time who was playing all -time quarterback.

[902] So he'll tell us, man, I want you to run five yards and cut.

[903] And I say, well, how many yards is?

[904] What's five yards?

[905] And the other kids were like, got you.

[906] Right, but they didn't.

[907] know what the fuck you I don't know what the fuck is five y 'all he was like man just running the route I'm like I don't know how what do you mean you know what I'm saying whereas whereas if you put me in a situation and we're talking about like I want two paragraphs with this kind of indention I got that immediately you dig it?

[908] And I don't know why one thing was more simple to me than the other but I think that is what allowed me advanced opportunity and experiences as a kid.

[909] Because my uncles, who were the neighborhood drug deals, big -time neighborhood drug deals, and that also kind of put into my mind what I wanted to provide for my mom.

[910] I used to see my uncles on Mother's Day.

[911] She was the first person on the block with a side -by -side refrigerator freezer with the automatic ice maker.

[912] And you know what I mean?

[913] And together, that was a big thing.

[914] So, you know, I saw them surprise home Mother's Day driving side -by -side refrigerator freezer are down the street and out of effort that they put into like making sure that they provided and took care of her and the house as children.

[915] So that's when I kind of was like, well, I need to do that for my mom.

[916] Uh -huh.

[917] You know what I mean?

[918] And it began to Yeah, it's the first woman you want to provide for.

[919] It was.

[920] So those were the examples that I had said for me as a youngster.

[921] Okay, back to rapping.

[922] When my uncles would stay up all night and drink beer and do their thing, count their money, talk about girls, have girls over and all that.

[923] I want to be a part of that.

[924] Oh, yeah.

[925] You know, of course, it comes to a point in the night when I'm like, man, get your ass in there, man. But when I showed them, I could rap.

[926] They wanted you to hang around.

[927] Yeah, it's like, man, come here, tip.

[928] Do that thing you can do.

[929] Oh, yeah.

[930] Then I can stay up late.

[931] You know, I get me another two hours with the grown people.

[932] You know what I mean?

[933] That was like, you know, a right of passage for me. That was like my pass into that lifestyle.

[934] So I went from rapping at L .A. Koojay, I'm bad to entertain them for extra couple hours up and in the mix to, Learning how to write my own song, my uncle said, this is what you really want to do if you learn everything about it.

[935] I make sure you have everything you need to make it.

[936] So that's when I dove into books like, all you need to learn about the music business, learn what publishing was, learn, you know what I mean?

[937] And right when I felt like I was ready, he called a case and had to go away for 10 years.

[938] So then I had to kind of start navigate my own way.

[939] Yeah.

[940] Words, I say it wasn't until high school for real.

[941] until I got in the high school there was a teacher at Douglas High Frederick Douglas High School her name was Miss Pearson So Ms. Pearson I was a class clown hooligan that was known as one of the bad kids And she engaged me She had a conversation with me She knew I was smart And she knew I could rap So she said You know literature Will improve your skill set As an artist You know that right I was like how They say, songs are better when they're different.

[942] And the way you make songs different is through words and language and perspective.

[943] And I was like, hmm.

[944] So then she said, I tell you what, you could just say, hey, I see that girl over there and she's pretty in a song.

[945] But if you say, from afar, I observe your beauty, that's a better song.

[946] Yeah, now I'm interested.

[947] You dig it what I'm saying?

[948] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[949] So when she kind of appealed to me in that manner, she was the first person to talk me about metaphors, double entendres, similes, antonyms, you know what I'm saying?

[950] Like those kind of things that I could actually apply.

[951] The tools.

[952] To my music.

[953] So I remember a semester, I feel every class, but I got an A in Ms. Pearson class and an algebra and got called to the principal's office.

[954] And the principal said, out the hill at the time.

[955] He said, son, you obviously can do the work.

[956] You have what it takes.

[957] Why won't you just have to apply yourself?

[958] I say, well, see, this is the thing.

[959] You got a building for the kids who are trying to figure out what they want to do in life.

[960] I already know, but y 'all ain't giving it to me. Right.

[961] Y 'all trying to train me. And that's what I feel about public school too.

[962] I feel like it's there to kill the confidence of young black men.

[963] Is there to make them conform, break them down, make them, you know, kind of submissive to, and, you know, kind of submissive to a certain workforce or a certain authority of the systems of America that, listen, what's going to be better for me and my life and my family?

[964] Like, damn that, go to work, get a job, all this shit.

[965] Why you ain't teaching me how to be the owner of a business?

[966] Why is everybody, why do they raise their hand, why do they ask the kids to raise their hands all the time and say, what do you want to be, meaning what job do you want to have when you grow up?

[967] Right.

[968] Instead of saying, which company do you want to own?

[969] What do you want to offer the world that isn't presently existing?

[970] Like, if that's the bar, then that's how kids are going to grow up in school thinking.

[971] Yeah.

[972] I already started thinking like that.

[973] So I told the principal, you're not giving me what I need to be what I want to be.

[974] So I'm going to just take what I can use.

[975] And I'm going to be on to the next phase of my life.

[976] And he said, man, get out of my office.

[977] And so I did.

[978] I got out of his office.

[979] He's in a tricky fucking situation, which is, sure, he's talking to tip who's going to go on to be a great musician.

[980] Right.

[981] Not everyone that school is a fucking great magician.

[982] He's going to tell everyone to go be tip?

[983] No. I've got bad news for you.

[984] It ain't going to pan out.

[985] True.

[986] But I think rather than having a systemic approach to educating everyone, to teaching everyone all the same things, how about training yourself to critical thinking?

[987] To recognize talents in these students and teach them what they need based on their talents.

[988] Why isn't there an evaluation?

[989] or a standardized test that evaluates what your talent is.

[990] You're not good at math.

[991] Okay.

[992] So instead of forcing you to be good at math, what are they good at?

[993] They're good at science.

[994] Okay, so we need to put them in a science program because they're scientists, obviously.

[995] Instead of like saying, oh, you suck because you ain't good at math.

[996] No, man, let's enhance your strengths and reinforce what you need in order to become something.

[997] Because if you do that, you may have the most successful science.

[998] scientists, but you're trying to teach him how to be a mathematician.

[999] And that ain't what he, you know what I mean?

[1000] I think if the school system was more of a reflection of that, we'd be in a better place.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] I agree.

[1003] Here, here.

[1004] I think it's moving that way.

[1005] They're getting off of like, because you can go on Google and fucking find out everything.

[1006] So I don't think they're making, you memorized by road anymore.

[1007] Right.

[1008] I think they're spending the time on like critical thinking and conceptual stuff.

[1009] And I think that's the right direction.

[1010] I think STEM is a big part of that.

[1011] STEM and technology coding and all that stuff.

[1012] Yes.

[1013] stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare okay my last question about your childhood you're cute you've been cute your whole life i'm pretty certain of it i saw pictures of you i never really looked at it as it's cute well you are you're you're good you're good looking and you can talk so handsome and articulate okay debonair and articulate there you go there it is you did well with ladies that's i know this did you use ladies to regulate your emotion your feelings, your experience?

[1014] I think I kind of self -medicated with ladies.

[1015] I'm asking because I did.

[1016] The present perspective of a man right now is going to be a reflection of his experience as a child with his mom.

[1017] When I start having kids and seeing how my kids' moms treated my sons, I learned that I wasn't really nurtured as a kid.

[1018] I never experienced all of the physical positive reinforcements.

[1019] It was always me and my mom in this together to come up.

[1020] Right.

[1021] And we got to figure out how to get ourselves from this situation into a better one.

[1022] You were her partner, not her child.

[1023] Kind of when it was a final notice for the light bill.

[1024] And we didn't have a but send it to our hour.

[1025] We had to put our head together together.

[1026] Yeah, that was an us problem.

[1027] Yeah, you did you know what I'm saying?

[1028] It wasn't never her figuring it out on her own.

[1029] That's where a lot of my business acumen came, because I know I got sending it two hours.

[1030] I need to make $367.

[1031] Okay, cool.

[1032] What can I do?

[1033] School only going to get me. I got maybe $30 a day on that, $40 a day on that.

[1034] That ain't going to work.

[1035] What else?

[1036] Okay, well, let me, if I had some coats to sell, you know what I'm saying?

[1037] I sell three coats.

[1038] I call people who used to buy, who I used to sell coats to, see if they got some extra money laying around.

[1039] You know what I mean?

[1040] Like, when my back against the wall, and I ain't got but this much time to come up with this much money.

[1041] I know how to do that.

[1042] based on my resources and the things I have around me so be that as it made my mom didn't really nurture me as much she never forced me like she never said boy you better get out there you better get that much like she ain't want no shit like that it was just like well if we don't come up with this we're going to be in the dog by Friday you know what I'm saying and I answered the car I rode to the cage and be like by Thursday I'm like well shit I got there much and she was like oh okay that's good we got more than enough because I already got this much yeah that was our experience So because I wasn't really nurtured as a young child, I find myself looking to be nurtured by grown women now.

[1043] Yeah.

[1044] I see it as more like a resurgence of positive energy.

[1045] You know what I'm saying?

[1046] When we go out, man, we are exposing and extending ourselves.

[1047] We're like kind of giving ourselves.

[1048] It's output.

[1049] Absolutely.

[1050] Of energy and privacy.

[1051] Mm -hmm.

[1052] Okay.

[1053] And you have to recharge that some way.

[1054] shape, form of fashion in order to continue doing it successfully.

[1055] You need an energy source.

[1056] I recognize that I usually go to plug in to feminine energy.

[1057] Yeah.

[1058] Let me just, because I am, I'm a reformed misogynist.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] It's good to admit.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] I think, man, most men who grew up during God times were, because it was the time of the, it was the age of misogyny.

[1063] So, you did?

[1064] I mean, you have to, accept, just like I self -diagnose myself as a narcissist, I diagnose myself as a misogynist.

[1065] And that's because aside from my mama and the women in my family, I ain't really had no real extensive relationships with people unless I were fucking them.

[1066] You know what I mean?

[1067] I ain't really had like the female friend who was just the female friend.

[1068] Like, you know, usually fucking.

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] For me, I'm going to add a layer, which is like there should have been dad around to be doing half the discipline.

[1071] Right.

[1072] And half the, you go do this, you do that, clean your room, all that shit that a parent does.

[1073] Right.

[1074] But it only came from a woman for me. It just came from my mom.

[1075] It's everything, right?

[1076] You were in the passenger seat.

[1077] Like, I was in the passenger.

[1078] I was never in I never felt like I was in the passenger seat.

[1079] Oh, you weren't.

[1080] Okay.

[1081] I mean, I literally bought my mom a first car.

[1082] Not her first car, but since I was born, like I was born into a household, me and my mom, she didn't have a car.

[1083] Uh -huh.

[1084] And I wouldn't find a out of the way to get us a car.

[1085] I want to got us a car.

[1086] You know what I'm saying?

[1087] Yeah.

[1088] And it was by my efforts and my hustle that I got us a car.

[1089] So I felt like even when I was in the passenger seat, I could drive if I want to.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] I'm no one that got us this car.

[1092] You know what I'm saying?

[1093] Right, right, right.

[1094] So I never really felt like that kind of, I guess, inferiority.

[1095] I felt like me and my mom, we ran a household together.

[1096] I call her my oldest daughter.

[1097] I'm like, man, I raise her.

[1098] You know, just because the woman she was then versus the woman she is now, I feel like, due to my experiences, I was able to offer her new experiences.

[1099] How old was she when she had you?

[1100] 22.

[1101] Okay.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] My pops was 50, though.

[1104] Oh, you're kidding.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] So you didn't resent him?

[1107] Absolutely not.

[1108] Oh, wow.

[1109] That's healthy.

[1110] I love my pops.

[1111] I mean, I just wish we could have got a time, a chance to spend more time together, so he could have taught me a lot of the things that I need to know about managing money.

[1112] Uh -huh.

[1113] But one thing he did tell me before he died, because he was around right when I started.

[1114] When I put out my first album, I started to gain some, like, regional notoriety.

[1115] He was around for that, because he was senile at the time.

[1116] He had Alzheimer's and stuff.

[1117] But he still knew who I was.

[1118] He was able to see me kind of like make it after I was trying to make it for all my teenage year.

[1119] He was like, man, you better go to school, get a job.

[1120] And I'm like, man, no, no, no, give me $300 for the studio, please.

[1121] And he was like, man, I'm going to give it to you.

[1122] But you know what I mean?

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] And for him to see me go from that to actually see that it, it panned.

[1125] out and turned into something.

[1126] That was great.

[1127] That was validation for me. That told me, man, I'm a man now.

[1128] I'm impressed.

[1129] I resent.

[1130] I love my dad.

[1131] He died as well.

[1132] I loved him to pieces, but I resented the hell out of them for leaving.

[1133] He never left to me because all I remember is them being apart.

[1134] Right.

[1135] The earliest thing I remember in my life, the earliest, like, I'm talking about the most vivid memory earlier on in my life was when my mom got robbed in New York.

[1136] my pop's apartment and I was there I was three years old and I was there the guy came he didn't like let the money get more the money get to he walked in and he showed the gun probably I didn't know what it was probably and sat me down in front of the TV walked my mama into one of the like the den of the living room and they stayed in there and I was still watching TV he came out he asked if I had to you the bathroom took me to the bathroom walked set me right back in front of the TV and I was so engulfed in whatever was going on on the TV a whole day probably some hours had gone by and he left out and walked out and said the keys on the picture of the zebra and I didn't pay him no attention I'm just, you know, watch a TV and then I remember asking him like, well my mama, I want to see my mama and she was like, no, she's sleeping don't worry about it.

[1137] And I was like, all right, cool.

[1138] And when he left, I guess after my show went off, I got up and went in there and saw my mama was like she was handcuffed to a chair and with her mouth taped up and her legs tied up and so I go up there and I pull the tape off her mouth and I remember this is vividly I remember I say mama why he tape your mouth up he think you talk too much and she said shut up help me get in here so she leaned over like imagine you with that chair but on your back like if you're bound to that chair on your back scrunched over walking into the living room where I was watching TV and there was a picture like kind of high up on the wall of a zebra in front of an X caliber like a car it was a picture of a zebra front of X caliber and that was one of the pictures that my dad had and the key to the handcuffs that she was bound to was up here on that picture and she couldn't get it so she's like tip get up there and get that key I'm three years old so I had to class So imagine I had to climb a three -year -old climbing on this chair that you're sitting on up to like the head part and reaching up to this TV kind of and grabbing a key and bringing it back to her, helping her undo herself.

[1139] That's three years old.

[1140] No, I'm, do you, I have a hunch.

[1141] You filed that in like, oh, yeah, and that's the building blocks that made all this thing happen.

[1142] You recognize that's a fucking incredibly traumatic experience.

[1143] I wasn't scared.

[1144] I never feel like I was ever.

[1145] This is bullshit.

[1146] I never felt like I was in danger.

[1147] Traumatic experiences to me is holding my best friend in my arms as he died because he was just in a shootout.

[1148] He got hit and they still coming back, shooting back and forth.

[1149] You know what I'm saying?

[1150] Like, that's a traumatic experience to me. Yes, but I carry that trauma and I recognize that I carry that trauma.

[1151] But let me tell you something.

[1152] You're carrying the three -year -old trauma.

[1153] A, the reason you fucking remember it so vividly isn't because you were unaffected by it.

[1154] Others should happen that you weren't affected by.

[1155] You don't remember it.

[1156] That right there's clue number one that it was fucking traumatic.

[1157] Okay.

[1158] That trauma built you to be in the next situation where you're holding your friend.

[1159] Because that's the fucking level.

[1160] It's like I try to explain to people coming off Coke for years.

[1161] It's like, I set 10 at a really high level.

[1162] Right.

[1163] So it took me probably five years before I could experience nine by doing something joyful and lovely.

[1164] Because I said it, I pinned it.

[1165] Right.

[1166] And when you fucking take duct tape off mom's face at three years old, I'm sorry whether you think so or not.

[1167] I mean, that's sad.

[1168] How about this?

[1169] It's a trauma I haven't recognized.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] I've recognized others, but it's a trauma that I haven't recognized.

[1172] Yes, but because I'll tell you something.

[1173] You just go, oh, that's life.

[1174] Like, oh, here's life on planet Earth.

[1175] When I'm three, people come in the house.

[1176] They tie up mom.

[1177] So this is life.

[1178] You're not going, oh, poor me. I wasn't going poor me. I was like, oh, wow.

[1179] In life, dudes are fucking dangerous.

[1180] And they hit your mom and they, it's scary.

[1181] Right.

[1182] And just that's life on planned earth.

[1183] But that isn't life on planned earth.

[1184] She is.

[1185] That is like, that is not.

[1186] That's not it.

[1187] That's not it.

[1188] Do your kids, your kid seeing you beat up your wife?

[1189] No, but I feel like they, no, absolutely not.

[1190] But I feel like they are a product of the exception, not the rule.

[1191] No, see, this is where I'm telling you.

[1192] I bet you if we did a poll.

[1193] We know the numbers.

[1194] Oh, well, let's hear them.

[1195] We talk about it all the time.

[1196] want to hear it.

[1197] Fifty percent of all boys will be physically abused.

[1198] Okay.

[1199] All right.

[1200] So that's half.

[1201] Right.

[1202] So in that way, you know, it's either or you can say it is or it isn't.

[1203] I haven't.

[1204] I haven't experienced or have I witnessed in my family the experience of any sexual inappropriate behavior from adults.

[1205] Adults to children or I had early sexual experiences that didn't come, that didn't involve like grown people.

[1206] It was me and other kids like doing shit we weren't supposed to be doing.

[1207] But I don't see that.

[1208] But other than that.

[1209] That's not a problem.

[1210] I mean, but it is a problem.

[1211] No, no, no. That kind of led to my insatiable appetite today.

[1212] That's also a level of somewhat or some kind of a seed being planted in a certain level of trauma.

[1213] Well, so I'm the same.

[1214] But I was molested.

[1215] So in my worldview, like your worldview, where everyone gets, their mom gets duct tape in three years old, in my worldview, everyone's been molested.

[1216] I'm like, yeah, that's standard operative.

[1217] procedure here on Planned Earth.

[1218] I can dig that.

[1219] But I now recognize that is not fucking standard operating procedure.

[1220] That is anything but that needs to be avoided.

[1221] That is a pattern that needs to stop.

[1222] I mean, it does need to be avoided and it does need to stop.

[1223] But I feel like if you look at the barometer at that moment in time, 1983, okay?

[1224] And you do a census of 1983 how much of this activity was being done in America.

[1225] it far exceeds 50 % I'm sure I don't think so I do I beg to differ yeah but do is it occurred to you like right now today I know it isn't like that because we've learned more our experiences and evolution as human beings have led us into a better civilization let's call it yeah yeah you know what I'm saying but at that time yeah all I'm saying is that was a different time and the barometer of right and wrong was fucking broken.

[1226] I accept that.

[1227] I accept that the line on the graph is going like this in the positive.

[1228] I accept that.

[1229] But also, you're in a percentage of people who experience a lot of trauma.

[1230] Okay.

[1231] That's just a fact.

[1232] I'll agree with that.

[1233] I can agree with that.

[1234] And I think we now know that people who have trauma have some pretty predictable shit.

[1235] Hurt people, hurt people.

[1236] Hurt people.

[1237] Right.

[1238] We regulate.

[1239] Well, that means regular.

[1240] We tell me what you mean regular.

[1241] It means I'm in the house.

[1242] Mom can't make the fucking electricity bill.

[1243] I feel powerless.

[1244] I go over to Susie's house.

[1245] I talk to her.

[1246] I got games.

[1247] She's on fire.

[1248] She's lit up.

[1249] I'm in control of the situation.

[1250] I'm not powerless anymore.

[1251] I'm escaping this feeling of powerlessness.

[1252] It is an outlet for me to feel like I can control this.

[1253] Yes.

[1254] And that feels fucking good.

[1255] That's a reprieve.

[1256] I've done it.

[1257] And drinking is a reprieve.

[1258] I can control.

[1259] Oh, I felt this way.

[1260] I do this.

[1261] I feel this.

[1262] this way.

[1263] I'm in charge of how I feel.

[1264] I've done that.

[1265] Coke, I know exactly how I'm going to feel.

[1266] Never done Coke.

[1267] That's amazing since you sold it.

[1268] Never done Coke.

[1269] I've sold my share.

[1270] Right, right, right.

[1271] But I've never done it.

[1272] I just thought it was something weird about putting something up my nose.

[1273] Right.

[1274] I saw one of my best friends at the time, his mom had a boyfriend who snorted Coke.

[1275] I saw him, like, blow his septum out like a pigger into the sink.

[1276] Sure.

[1277] And I'm like, I'm not for you.

[1278] Okay, so it's not cooked.

[1279] I know what two oxy -thirties are going to make me feel like.

[1280] I like anything that I know how I'm going to feel after I do the thing.

[1281] I think the only opioid that I really had a pleasurable, positive experience with was lean.

[1282] Lean?

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] I never heard of lean.

[1285] Yeah, sure you have.

[1286] It's got opium in it?

[1287] Yeah, that's what it is.

[1288] Really?

[1289] It's liquid, it's liquid percocet, basically.

[1290] Oh, my goodness.

[1291] Don't tell him about that.

[1292] No, I'm not going to sleep.

[1293] The wave is gone.

[1294] Okay, good, good.

[1295] The wave is gone.

[1296] That shit is passe now.

[1297] It's like one of those.

[1298] Free basin now, you know, so what are you doing that, dude?

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] But it was real fashionable back in, you know, let's say, from late 90s to 2010.

[1301] Uh -huh.

[1302] 11, 12.

[1303] It probably played out around 12.

[1304] Okay.

[1305] I wonder when I read about you, because you went to jail in success.

[1306] Sure.

[1307] You were fucking on the rocket.

[1308] Twice.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] And I do wonder, did you have the moment in prison where you went, hold on, something's wrong with this story because I got all the shit and I'm sitting in fucking prison.

[1311] Absolutely.

[1312] Absolutely.

[1313] You have to look in the mirror and make those necessary adjustments to yourself and be honest with yourself and kind of like everyone else is not the problem.

[1314] It's me. Which is hard.

[1315] Absolutely.

[1316] Every man has to come to that.

[1317] realization before he's actually a man the only thing that all this shit has in common is me right and none of it's going to change until i change myself yeah yes i did have that moment in prison can i ask what what were the things you decided i have got to stop x y or z or i've got to i've got to um approach x y or z first of all i got to stop taking things personal yeah yeah i got to start behaving as though everything that other people do is because they have a problem or that they are against me. Right.

[1318] You know, sometimes our visions, like our approaches, our journeys just don't align.

[1319] And when it doesn't align, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are my opposition or that you are my enemy.

[1320] It just means that she just didn't work out on this one.

[1321] Let's try the next one.

[1322] Because a lot of times, let's just say if I have a company, a website, an app, some shit I'm working.

[1323] and I go to you and I say hey Dax listen man I got this app man check it out it's about how to connect the consumer in a club to the bar or the waitress or bartender without leaving this section and how did that and you're like yeah okay well let me look into it and then you decide to not do it but it's because of your history you're like man I've been sober for 15 years it's a weird thing for me to be the face All right, but if I say, oh, fuck, Dax, Dax ain't fucking with me, man. Yeah, Dax got, you know, he hate knowing me. That's the kind of shit that I feel like was equivalent to the shit, you know, how I perceive my...

[1324] Well, and can I just defend you for one second?

[1325] Because if I'm you, I can make a very substantial court case in my head, which is this.

[1326] Because this is true, because you're, you start getting arrested at 14 years old.

[1327] I did.

[1328] So from 14 years old, you pretty much are on probation.

[1329] From 14 years old, I don't even know.

[1330] Are you currently on probation?

[1331] Absolutely not, free and clear, all the way through, have been since 2012.

[1332] That's still 20 years that you're living with this really strict restriction on all kinds of different things, right?

[1333] And in encumbrance.

[1334] This became, who was the guy in Philadelphia?

[1335] Oh, Meek Mills.

[1336] Meek Mills.

[1337] When I really saw, I saw like an hour -long documentary, and I saw the trap that had been created for him.

[1338] A, I could recognize I bought drugs all the time.

[1339] I got no convictions.

[1340] I drove drunk all the time.

[1341] I got no convictions.

[1342] I sold shrooms.

[1343] I got no convictions.

[1344] That's because I'm white.

[1345] It's true.

[1346] That's 100 % because I'm white.

[1347] This is true.

[1348] God bless you for recognizing that.

[1349] Most people just won't.

[1350] They were like, man, I'm just a better drug dealing with you.

[1351] You're a lies.

[1352] No, no, no, no. All the white people who got pulled over buying coke, they got let go.

[1353] I think a lot of people are coming to terms with the fact that most of us, had we been black, would have spent some time in jail, or at least everyone in my circle.

[1354] So that goes with that saying.

[1355] Jail is the white man's military.

[1356] you know usually when you got you know guys on the bed on the wrong end of the law in high school on the illegal side of the tracks their escape and they're coming to jesus moment is you got to go to the military you know right right you didn't get accepted into no college you motherfucking out of high school or barely finished high school you got the law on your ass you got vandalism charges you got simple assaults and you fucking your record up you need to go to the military yeah get some structure yeah so then they go to the military they spend about you know four years maybe eight years and they come back and now their slate is clean and now they understand how to operate as an adult they understand the difference in the shit that they was doing how they did it why they did it except they're celebrated as a veteran at this point they're celebrated by the nation by the government is celebrated in society and their communities, their moms and dad, everybody's proud of them, yada, yada, yada.

[1357] And that's their reset.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] Redemption.

[1360] For us is prison.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] When we're on that same path, we got those things, we got to go to prison and spend five, seven, eight years and come back and understand, okay, cool.

[1363] I see what I was doing wrong.

[1364] Except for now you can't vote, now you can't do that.

[1365] No one's celebrating you.

[1366] There's not, it's not, like, the government hates us.

[1367] We can't get a loan.

[1368] We can't get a job.

[1369] In the community, it's like, oh, such -and -a -such -such guy in jail, what he's going to do?

[1370] Well, you know, we got to watch him.

[1371] You know what he went in for.

[1372] You know all that old shit.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] And then you have the statistics of recidivism hanging over your head.

[1375] Yeah, it's like 70, 80 % right?

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] So it's like, and then, but you know, there's a perpetuation of recidivism.

[1378] When recidivism is at an, all -time high.

[1379] It's almost like, shit.

[1380] Well, I want to goddamn be a part of the motherfuckers did go back.

[1381] How can I incentivize, like, for probation officers, parole officers, and other motherfuckers like, it's kind of like, okay, let's kick them back in.

[1382] Let's kick him back in.

[1383] Let's kick him back in.

[1384] I want to be on the wooden side.

[1385] I don't want to be a part of that 20 percent.

[1386] I want to be a part of that 80 percent.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] That is the difference in being a black man exiting adolescence entering adulthood versus a white man exiting adolescence entering adulthood.

[1389] Because we all are imperfect.

[1390] Oh, you know, in the simplest terms, I drove, I lived in Santa Monica.

[1391] I partied in Hollywood.

[1392] I drove through Beverly Hills seven nights a week drunk.

[1393] Oh.

[1394] If I'm black, I'm getting pulled over.

[1395] Especially at Beverly Hills.

[1396] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1397] There was just a case in the L .A. Times, this, you know, this fucking beautiful kid going to his church in Beverly Hills.

[1398] He got pulled over like 13 times doing nothing.

[1399] I'm like, oh, yeah, man, I was drunk all those times.

[1400] I would have been, I would have had felony fucking.

[1401] DUIs, you know?

[1402] So, so I recognize that you could be building, and then you're on fucking probation.

[1403] So you're just in this trap.

[1404] So like anything you do is going to have this huge consequence.

[1405] I'm proud to say that I endured and overcame that.

[1406] Yeah.

[1407] Yeah.

[1408] Because most, you're the fucking 20 % man. I fought back.

[1409] I fought back with my unwavering tenacity to not let them be right.

[1410] Uh -huh.

[1411] You dig what I'm saying?

[1412] Yeah, it's good to have a chip on your shoulder.

[1413] Y 'all think I ain't going to be shit.

[1414] Y 'all think I'm going to come bet.

[1415] Y 'all think that this is the end for me. Even though I feel like you write a little bit, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction.

[1416] If I'm betting in a casino, I'm probably going to bet with you.

[1417] Because it's me, we bet on.

[1418] I'm going to take the long shot on this.

[1419] Yeah, exactly.

[1420] I think that, you know, that really galvanized a part of me that I haven't had an opportunity.

[1421] like to really take notice of until then like it's like man you overcome me like even right now like I hadn't even thought about this shit yeah and then that we're speaking about it's like bro you did that a lot of motherfuckers couldn't have broke under all that pressure a number of times I mean you were you stepped out of the way of a bus other people got hit I mean it's that I think I think I survived getting hit by a bus it's a little bit different I didn't completely step out of the way.

[1422] Uh -huh.

[1423] I feel like Puff stepped out of the way of the bus.

[1424] Uh -huh.

[1425] Like, I didn't step out of the way.

[1426] I got hit by the bus and survived.

[1427] Like, we never thought you was even going to walk again.

[1428] And now you run in a marathon.

[1429] That's dope.

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] That's how I feel.

[1432] Okay.

[1433] So, why did you interview your wife?

[1434] Which, the first episode of this show was me interviewing Kristen.

[1435] Word.

[1436] And I listened to it back.

[1437] And I said to Monica, we can't release this.

[1438] I'm so fucking controlling.

[1439] Oh my God.

[1440] I'm like, I'm embarrassed listening to myself because it's not going the way I want it to go and I can't accept it.

[1441] It's all right.

[1442] And ultimately I was really happy that we're released it because that's the reality, dude.

[1443] That's fucking marriage.

[1444] Who am I?

[1445] It's your truth, bro.

[1446] Yes.

[1447] I'm stepping out to try to be honest about all this shit.

[1448] That's freedom.

[1449] To earn the right to live within your truth unapologetically, unencumbered.

[1450] Like, that's freedom, bro.

[1451] Like, if you was like, no, I can't let people see this side of me. Yeah.

[1452] No, man, fuck that.

[1453] This is who I am.

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] You dig what?

[1456] You may think it's bad, but guess what?

[1457] My good outweighs my bad.

[1458] I'm a product of my circumstances, my environment, the time in which I grew up, my generation.

[1459] But guess what?

[1460] As bad as you see it right now, it pales in comparison to how bad it could be.

[1461] Right, right.

[1462] Yeah, yeah.

[1463] Give me all the credit for being only this bad as opposed to as bad.

[1464] as the shit could be because I know motherfuckers and you do too that you spent 10 minutes with them you'd be praying for an opportunity to get there and be controlled by me so right so I think that that that's the side of the spectrum that I view it from okay so your podcast which is really fascinating you fucking talk to Alex Jones I did which I got to say of course I was just immediately curious I love that you talk to Alex Jones I personally don't like Alex Jones.

[1465] That's fine.

[1466] Who cares?

[1467] I mean, I think...

[1468] If I knew about him before I talked to him, I probably wouldn't like him either.

[1469] Okay.

[1470] But, you know, after I found out, I was going to interview him, and I started telling people, they were like, Alex Jones, what the fuck are you doing, talking to him?

[1471] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1472] You're like, what the fuck?

[1473] Why not?

[1474] Like, you're like, have you heard Info Wars?

[1475] Uh, no. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[1476] I actually haven't.

[1477] So I was expecting him to be like this Stark Raven, mad, crazy racist and I didn't really get racist from him although he may have some racist views or some he may be racist adjacent but I didn't necessarily get racist from him I got delusional a little bit just a little bit in times when he's talking about this and he's talking about that but I also feel that you don't get banned from YouTube for spreading lies that's where you guys were connecting which I thought was hilarious so you guys were opposed on Trump for obvious reasons when it became like conspiracy theory time I saw you buy in you're like oh yeah yeah yeah and I was like oh they have a little they have a little overlap here this is true because I mean I think that conspiracies to me they are rooted in the instinctive notion that something ain't right about this shit something stinks you know what I mean something's going on here I might not know exactly what it is so now that I don't know exactly what it is what I have to do is I have to form my own opinion and I have to come to my own opinion conclusion but sometimes those conclusions are wrong but one thing that we instinctively know something isn't right right and here's the other thing we agree about I don't like Alex Jones okay I talk to him in two seconds I'm not afraid to sit down and talk with somebody that I disagree with I've been trying to find a start raving racist that I could talk to yeah and I can't find anybody that I don't know I can't find anybody there's an incredible book called from Superman to man. And it's a fictional story, I believe, at least.

[1478] It's presented as a fictional story.

[1479] And it's about, back in the 20s or 30s, I don't think I don't remember.

[1480] There was a porter on a train ride.

[1481] And this porter, who was basically like a waiter or whatever, a butler for the fucking first class of this train ride, he was a black man. And the white man, it was several white people.

[1482] This one overtly obnoxious white man who had these fucking just supremacist's thoughts and outward beliefs.

[1483] So now it's like the only person for this supremacist to talk to was the porter.

[1484] And the porter was like, man, I was reading my book.

[1485] I mean, I was really like trying my best to avoid the discussion because I don't want to make, you know, I'm not trying to lose my job, make.

[1486] no waves but he continued to ask my opinion on things so as he continued to ask his opinion you think white people like there's no reason for a black man to think this or white people are obviously we're better at everything and he's like I finally just had to say well I mean well history tells us and because this man had he studied abroad he had a job in Europe and he was a aware of other civilizations, he was well -read, and he knew actual facts, whereas the supremacist was only speaking from his perspective and his opinion based on things that he'd heard or thought or believed, there were no facts to support.

[1487] So as that conversation continued over the course of that train ride, the reason is called from Superman to man, because the white man felt like Superman at the beginning of the train right by the end, he knew he was just a man. Uh -huh.

[1488] So I've been hoping to have that sort of an experience.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] With a stark raving racist.

[1491] What about someone from the KKK?

[1492] I'd love to.

[1493] Yeah.

[1494] What's the documentary we watch that we love?

[1495] You would love this.

[1496] I'd love to sit down with you.

[1497] Yeah, you should.

[1498] You'd love to sit down just to sit there's a great documentary about this.

[1499] I'm not going to disrespect you.

[1500] I'm going to demand that you not disrespect me. Mm -hmm.

[1501] However, let's have an above -board discussion about why you think that your way is.

[1502] Yeah, and that you're superior.

[1503] And how you can repress the facts that I can present as to why what you think is bullshit.

[1504] And if we walk away still disagreeing.

[1505] If he convinced me that he's the best, then I'll say, you know what, guys.

[1506] He's got some right.

[1507] You know what I'm saying?

[1508] I mean, they got a leg up on us.

[1509] You diggin' what?

[1510] There's nothing we can do.

[1511] But I think if I was in his shoes, I would welcome the opportunity to do that if I really felt that way.

[1512] If I really had conviction.

[1513] Yeah.

[1514] I'm like, man, I'm going to turn one over.

[1515] We watch this documentary.

[1516] It's called Accidental something.

[1517] It's amazing.

[1518] This jazz musician, he's a really accomplished jazz musician.

[1519] He befriended this clan like a grand knight.

[1520] And then over the course of their friendship, that.

[1521] I quit the Klan and he took his robe.

[1522] And then he went and then he started doing this, right?

[1523] And his closet has like 12 robes in it.

[1524] You've got to see that.

[1525] So he turns them around.

[1526] Yeah, he turned them around.

[1527] And he does it just with like basically what you're saying.

[1528] Kindness and information.

[1529] That's the empathy that I offer is I just know that these people can just wake up one day and start feeling like this.

[1530] The cause to an effect or an effect to a cause, I should say.

[1531] Yeah.

[1532] Okay.

[1533] Okay.

[1534] So again, I got to say expeditiously is awesome.

[1535] You are very fun to listen to.

[1536] Thank you.

[1537] I love to have you guys on.

[1538] Yeah, yeah.

[1539] I'll come on in a second.

[1540] Absolutely.

[1541] Tip, I can't imagine liking someone more in my wife's top five.

[1542] I've enjoyed sitting down and talking to you.

[1543] And I hope to see you a bunch again.

[1544] Thank you.

[1545] And now I'm going to tell you that you introduce yourself as a hillbilly earlier.

[1546] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1547] Uh -huh.

[1548] But I see you as a progressive liberal.

[1549] Oh, sure.

[1550] But I'm going to tell you.

[1551] I rode dirt bikes and I fucking jumped off a dam and I've, you know, I did, I did hillbilly shit.

[1552] Yeah, no, no, no, no. You know what I am?

[1553] I'm white trash.

[1554] That's what I want to say.

[1555] Yeah, you know, but I've elevated.

[1556] I've elevated.

[1557] I've elevated.

[1558] But I'm proud of it.

[1559] I'm proud of that.

[1560] Man, you come from a downtrottent area of society.

[1561] I do.

[1562] That's it.

[1563] You just happen to be white.

[1564] You've endured the same level of trauma and the same circumstances that me or any other motherfucker that come from this shit of mine has.

[1565] But you just found a way to translate it within your culture.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] And I recognize, by the way, it's a lot easier for me to climb up.

[1568] Absolutely.

[1569] Because there's a point now where I meet people and it's like, I went to UCLA.

[1570] I got a nice car.

[1571] I probably just like you.

[1572] Right.

[1573] But if I'm black, there's always going to be like, I doubt you came from the same spot.

[1574] Yeah, absolutely.

[1575] I think that, like, I always try to tell people, especially when it's very, funny and entertaining when you speak to politicians or people who kind of observe and critique politicians and they speak to you and they're like well is it democrat is a republican well so you're against him because he's white right now it's not about democrat or republican i'm bipartisan it's not about black or white it's not about rich or poor it's not about old or young it's about decent and indecent decent people want people to be treated the way that they like to be treated.

[1576] Decent want other people's children to have the same opportunities that their children will have.

[1577] Indecent people thinks that they should be treated differently because of the color of their skin or because of the origin of their race.

[1578] They think that their children should always have an added advantage against other children.

[1579] They shouldn't have to work as hard.

[1580] They shouldn't have to learn as much.

[1581] They just feel that they are entitled somewhat to a certain portion of society.

[1582] without any effort, without any struggle.

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] Those are the people that I'm going to get.

[1585] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1586] The entitled, yeah.

[1587] That's where I draw the line.

[1588] It's fair and decent people.

[1589] You seem like a very fair and decent person.

[1590] That's why when you say he'll build, I'm like, I don't see that.

[1591] Okay.

[1592] Well, maybe I'll work on it.

[1593] All right, Tip, well, let's talk again soon.

[1594] Man, let's do it.

[1595] Let's do it.

[1596] I appreciate it.

[1597] Thank you so much for the experience and the invitation, and you are great, Monica.

[1598] Thank you.

[1599] Thank you for introducing me to the cultures of Duluth.

[1600] Yes.

[1601] You dig what I'm saying?

[1602] I'll spend more time in Atlanta moving forward.

[1603] Yeah, just come hang out.

[1604] You know what?

[1605] Little five points.

[1606] I do like Little Five points.

[1607] The Virginia Highlands is another great place.

[1608] All right, man. So good to talk to you.

[1609] Thank you so much, brother.

[1610] We'll see you soon.

[1611] Love.

[1612] And now my favorite part of the show, The Fact Check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1613] Welcome to the fact check where this is a unique fact check.

[1614] Monica is dream.

[1615] drinking an ice cold beer.

[1616] It is 1225.

[1617] 1237.

[1618] Oh, 1237.

[1619] I'm sorry.

[1620] 1237 on a Tuesday.

[1621] Correct.

[1622] And that's not even the best part, arm cherries.

[1623] Monica is going to an audition in about 30 minutes where she will have beer on her breath.

[1624] And I could not support this.

[1625] I'm going to brush my teeth.

[1626] Don't.

[1627] Of course I am.

[1628] I don't want them to think I'm above it.

[1629] No, such mixed messages, because you're coming in dress nice.

[1630] And, like, people do have the stereotype.

[1631] Like, you were probably a great student and all the stuff, which you were.

[1632] I was.

[1633] And then you come in with beer on your breath, and they're like, damn, girl, what are these signals I'm receiving?

[1634] I'm actually, I feel really self -conscious talking.

[1635] Like, I don't, now I'm like, does my breath stink?

[1636] I hope so.

[1637] I hope it smells skunky like a nice rich beer.

[1638] Ew, I don't want that.

[1639] I regret this decision.

[1640] No, I love it.

[1641] I'm so proud of you.

[1642] You know my thing when Nate would come over.

[1643] Anytime Nate visits, I always implore him, especially if he's with his family, go out into the garage where we have a fridge and pound two or three beers.

[1644] Oh, on his own.

[1645] Yes.

[1646] I want him to do it so bad every time he's over because he's not an addict.

[1647] He can handle that.

[1648] Totally.

[1649] And what a different experience he'll have if he goes into that closet and just pounds two or three beers by himself.

[1650] Why does he have to pound him by himself?

[1651] Why can't he just drink it on the porch?

[1652] porch drinking.

[1653] Because it's a thrill to go in there and just have a couple by yourself.

[1654] In secret?

[1655] In secret, yeah.

[1656] It rounds out the experience in a way.

[1657] Oh, man. I wish we had a fireplace in here.

[1658] Do you think our new space, well, that's working?

[1659] You could have a guy come out and fix it.

[1660] I think it does work.

[1661] Really?

[1662] Or used to.

[1663] My friend that lived in here.

[1664] The cat set on fire.

[1665] The cat got set on fire?

[1666] The cat set the attic on fire.

[1667] and knocked some wood out of it.

[1668] Oh, my God.

[1669] Interesting.

[1670] So much history.

[1671] We're learning history about the attic.

[1672] Apparently there was a big blaze in here, a big fire caused by a cat.

[1673] Not surprised.

[1674] I know.

[1675] So many cats are always up to no good.

[1676] I don't like them.

[1677] I'm going to say it.

[1678] You don't like them.

[1679] I don't dislike them, but they are, they're instigators.

[1680] They're troublemakers.

[1681] You see videos of them online.

[1682] They're punching people and batting at people and stuff.

[1683] It's kind of cool.

[1684] A friend's cat.

[1685] Her cat, she was like, oh my gosh.

[1686] she likes you so much because she was like putting her nuzzling her head on me and I was like oh yeah yeah and then she paused and she was like sometimes when she does that she bites and I was like what in the fuck like she uses her niceness to then attack lower your guard and then sink and she did bite me needle sharp teeth into you did she bite you yes I did not like it on my hand oh your hand did she draw blood probably I'm very easy Probably.

[1687] You would know that she did.

[1688] You're very easily punctured?

[1689] Yeah.

[1690] Yeah.

[1691] I have thin skin opposite of pussy pachydermis skin.

[1692] Yeah.

[1693] What would we call that?

[1694] Maybe pussy dermatis?

[1695] No, that sounds like a condition.

[1696] I don't think so.

[1697] So does pussy pachydermis.

[1698] It sounds like a condition.

[1699] Well, that is a condition.

[1700] It is.

[1701] To have too thick of a vagina skin.

[1702] Minora majora.

[1703] Anyway.

[1704] You should have three beers.

[1705] No. Why?

[1706] I think there's like real lines I have to say, which is very rare in a commercial audition.

[1707] That's okay.

[1708] You can say lines after a few beers.

[1709] When you drink at the house, you still talk and you sound normal.

[1710] But I don't ever have to do memorize lines.

[1711] I think there's only two, though, and I don't remember what they are.

[1712] Oh, no, it's already working or not working.

[1713] What if you light a cigarette in this audition?

[1714] Oh, my God.

[1715] Because you're so buzzed.

[1716] I've never done that my life.

[1717] Or what if in the middle of the audition, you're like, does anyone want to hit Jack in the box?

[1718] I'm going to go Can you smell my breath No No Okay I've been weirdly Recently Having just a few moments And they go away Quickly But I've had a few Spikes of Maybe I should Smoke a cigarette Oh interesting But not even Not even like I want to try smoking a cigarette Like in that moment I want a cigarette Right now Wow, you're desiring one.

[1719] You don't even know what they taste like.

[1720] I have no idea what it does.

[1721] I have no idea, but it's happened a couple times, but I'm not going to do it.

[1722] Well, you won't like it.

[1723] The weird thing about cigarettes is even the first one you have, even as a heavy, heavy smoker, when I would quit and then relapse, the first one's garbage.

[1724] And I'm like, fuck, I shouldn't have done that.

[1725] It wasn't even good.

[1726] And then nine minutes later, I'm like, I need another one.

[1727] Yeah.

[1728] And then that one is enjoyable.

[1729] And then the next Catrillion are enjoyable.

[1730] and then you're coughing nonstop and you smell like an 80 -year -old's asshole.

[1731] And you might get cancer.

[1732] And you'll likely get cancer.

[1733] Yeah, likely is better.

[1734] Better word for it.

[1735] Anyway, I'm not going to do it.

[1736] I kind of like that I have a clean track record on.

[1737] Those lungs are pink as it gets.

[1738] They are very clear.

[1739] Congratulations.

[1740] Thank you.

[1741] Well, you've smoked weed, no?

[1742] Yeah.

[1743] Oh, so they're not that clean.

[1744] Barely.

[1745] Barely.

[1746] I don't like weed.

[1747] Right.

[1748] It's not for you.

[1749] And I've never smoked a joint.

[1750] Ooh.

[1751] You've hit, vaped.

[1752] Recently vaped.

[1753] And then when I was in college and I did it like a couple times, it was a bong.

[1754] Hit that bong.

[1755] Were you ever in a college situation where that bong water spilled inside of a room, like a dorm room?

[1756] That is a fucking stanky mess.

[1757] Ooh.

[1758] Yop.

[1759] I don't think I experienced that.

[1760] Speaking of stinky messes, boy, the whole family went down this weekend with the flu and really ran through us like Sherman's tanks.

[1761] I mean, or is it Patton's tanks?

[1762] Or maybe it was General Sherman under Patton.

[1763] But at any rate.

[1764] He scorched Savannah.

[1765] Scorched.

[1766] Who did?

[1767] Sherman's March.

[1768] Sherman's march is through Savannah.

[1769] That I know.

[1770] Okay.

[1771] What do you do?

[1772] I think he's scorched.

[1773] Oh.

[1774] Oh, are you talking about Civil War?

[1775] Yeah, Civil War.

[1776] Oh, okay.

[1777] I think Sherman's World War II.

[1778] Sherman tanks?

[1779] I don't know.

[1780] Maybe not.

[1781] Maybe they're just called Sherman tanks after a general from the Civil War.

[1782] Sherman's March to Sea was the Civil War.

[1783] Yeah, that's what I said.

[1784] And is Savannah involved?

[1785] Georgia is.

[1786] Yeah, Savannah.

[1787] Yep.

[1788] Conducted through Georgia.

[1789] Oh, man. I am pleased with myself.

[1790] You're honest.

[1791] So it was a Civil War.

[1792] General.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] November 15th to December 21st and captured the port of Savannah.

[1795] Oh.

[1796] Bo.

[1797] I am.

[1798] Okay, so, but the Sherman Tank must have been named after him, huh?

[1799] Maybe, or maybe there's, it's a common name.

[1800] Yeah, maybe the guy who designed the Sherman Tank.

[1801] Maybe.

[1802] All right, well.

[1803] Well, you guys are really sick.

[1804] We got really sick.

[1805] And then as a result, I haven't worked out in three days yeah and then I woke up feeling depressed yeah you're feeling gloomy in in uh pessimistic and and not in a good mood but then the interview we just did did it broke through some the fog of i thought that was happening and it was making me happy oh good yeah yeah i just really didn't want to do a dang thing today i wanted to like the hallmark signs of depression i wanted to stay in my bed yeah not want to talk to anyone i didn't want to see anyone I wanted to just lay in bed all day.

[1806] Yeah.

[1807] That was my desired state.

[1808] But I got out of bed and I took a kid to school and here we are.

[1809] Yeah.

[1810] And you're feeling a little better.

[1811] Anywho, tip.

[1812] T .I. What is tip versus T .I. Okay, so he really was tip.

[1813] Okay.

[1814] But then he got on a label that Q -Tip happened to also be on, Q -Tip from Tribe called Quest.

[1815] Okay.

[1816] And so they basically were like, you can't also be tip.

[1817] Oh.

[1818] So then they came up with TI and I was meaning to bring that up in the interview, but we just never got to it.

[1819] Yeah, because we were on a philosophical ride.

[1820] Yeah, we were.

[1821] I am very, I think you did a beautiful job interviewing him.

[1822] Oh, thank you.

[1823] It's a great interview and I'm so happy to have heard his story.

[1824] One of the things that's, of the many things that's awesome about getting to do this show is like, here we are talking to Tip.

[1825] Yeah.

[1826] I could have, I guess, met him because he acts as well.

[1827] He's a great actor, as I pointed out.

[1828] But just in general, and I had, you know, like an hour -long conversation with him the other day to discuss the release of the episode and then his appearance on that other podcast and blah, blah, blah.

[1829] And we both very much respect each other.

[1830] We disagree about some things, which is totally fine.

[1831] But always I kept thinking, how on earth are you having a conversation with Tip?

[1832] I know.

[1833] Who's a rapper from Atlanta.

[1834] Absolutely.

[1835] Who's been to prison.

[1836] I'm a white trash from suburb of Detroit.

[1837] And here we are talking, and we have certainly more in common than we don't have in common.

[1838] And just the whole thing was I felt like, oh, life's fun and funny and I'm lucky.

[1839] I couldn't agree more, yeah.

[1840] I thought that a lot when I was talking to Monica.

[1841] Lewinsky.

[1842] Yes.

[1843] Because we had a lot of phone conversations, just me and her.

[1844] Right.

[1845] And I had that thought many times.

[1846] How in the world did I get here?

[1847] What turn of events?

[1848] Yes.

[1849] It's incredibly lucky.

[1850] It is.

[1851] Yeah, it is.

[1852] It's twofold.

[1853] One is you feel very lucky, which is nice.

[1854] You have gratitude.

[1855] And then the other thing is like, not in a bad way, but like, oh, no one's special.

[1856] We're all just people.

[1857] There's also this other level that's weirdly humbling.

[1858] Oh, that's my favorite part of it.

[1859] That's the real takeaway.

[1860] I mean, it's good to have gratitude, but also, oh.

[1861] Michael Jordan takes a shit and his family gets the flu.

[1862] Yes, exactly.

[1863] everyone is the same we just all have our own host of issues and flaws and all kinds of things and they're different for every person but no one goes through life without accumulating some and more and more and more i mean this is an old old concept i know carl sagan made it famous but just how drawn to myth humans are and how drawn to story we are and how we are writing a story of our lives and how we get trapped in those stories of our lives and it's just just it gets more and more evident every time we talk to anyone or even the five of us sit around and have a conversation.

[1864] Yeah, I know.

[1865] And we'll even say now at the house like, well, you'll recognize blah, blah, blah.

[1866] I won't go like, yeah, I know that that is your story.

[1867] Like your story is yes, the world is this way.

[1868] Right, right.

[1869] But it is as much not that way as it is that way.

[1870] And it's just kind of what story you're telling.

[1871] I don't know.

[1872] It's fascinating.

[1873] It's interesting.

[1874] Even the, when you really sort of bird's eye view the whole thing.

[1875] Even the stories that you are choosing to retell are the ones that you've decided make your identity and you like have washed away the ones that you feel like aren't really you.

[1876] That aren't adding up to the thing you are you want to be or this idea of you.

[1877] But those other stories are just as relevant when you just decided to discard what we want to discard.

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] I mean It's all happening subconsciously, I think, but it's fascinating.

[1880] It is happening.

[1881] But a lot of people, and this is where I really related to Tip, and I don't want to speak for him, but, you know, I have a version of my life I like to think of as being an outsider.

[1882] Yeah, yeah.

[1883] And then yet, I'd be lying to pretend that I live currently in that same story.

[1884] So it's like, do I want to be playing the same character that's now in a completely different story that isn't outsiders?

[1885] And Tip as well.

[1886] Tip is now largely separated.

[1887] from the hardship and challenges that he faced as a kid.

[1888] Yes.

[1889] But it's very hard to switch characters.

[1890] Rewrite.

[1891] To find yourself in the book you're now in.

[1892] You know, I sometimes laugh at you for this.

[1893] Of course.

[1894] But I think you laugh at me a lot.

[1895] Well, you try to make me laugh a lot.

[1896] Well, sometimes you laugh at me and then sometimes you laugh with me. That's true.

[1897] Yeah.

[1898] But sometimes I laugh at you a little bit because you are always relating.

[1899] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1900] Like you're always making the comparison between you and other people.

[1901] And I laugh at that, but it's also great because that's the truth.

[1902] There's always something that you can relate to in another person.

[1903] And you just happen to look for it and find it with everybody.

[1904] Right.

[1905] And that makes me laugh.

[1906] But I think that's a enviable thing to do, actually.

[1907] Well, the core of it is, is like, no, I have no idea what the black experiences in Atlanta in the 8th.

[1908] 80s?

[1909] Don't know.

[1910] I didn't live there.

[1911] But I know fear pretty well.

[1912] Yes.

[1913] You know, and I know feeling like, oh, I better watch up for myself because no one else is.

[1914] Yeah.

[1915] And growing up in a hyper masculine.

[1916] Oh, yeah, like masculinity squared.

[1917] So like those things ultimately are are very relatable.

[1918] Well.

[1919] Well, here we go.

[1920] You brought up Helen, Georgia.

[1921] And I love Helen.

[1922] Get yourself a big old Octoberfest beerstein.

[1923] Callie and I would go camping there.

[1924] And we had...

[1925] On the Chattahooch?

[1926] Would you be on the river?

[1927] Yeah, well, yeah, because we did tubing on the river.

[1928] Oh, on the hoochy.

[1929] Which was very fun.

[1930] I love tubing.

[1931] It's my favorite summer activity.

[1932] It's so fun.

[1933] It is.

[1934] Yeah, it is.

[1935] I mean, I haven't done it in maybe 15, 20 years.

[1936] You get an extra tube that you put your cooler of beer in.

[1937] That we didn't do.

[1938] Oh, then you haven't fucking tube.

[1939] No, no. Because it's basically like just hanging at the bar with all your friends, but the scenery changes.

[1940] Yeah.

[1941] Oh, I love it.

[1942] And then you're peeing the whole time you're in your tube.

[1943] You never have to go to the bathroom.

[1944] I've never done that either.

[1945] You've never peed in the river while you were tubing.

[1946] You must have.

[1947] Well, I'm only two, like twice.

[1948] I'm only two twice.

[1949] I'm only tube all the time.

[1950] It's a fun place.

[1951] Hell in Georgia.

[1952] Yeah.

[1953] The whole place looks like a movie set.

[1954] It's all done up in 1800s Germany.

[1955] Yeah, exactly.

[1956] Exactly.

[1957] Exactly.

[1958] It's very German.

[1959] They do October Fest.

[1960] But you went there, right, with Aaron?

[1961] Yeah, well, we did a couple different car shows that the ride and drive went through there.

[1962] Didn't Aaron live there?

[1963] Aaron lived right down the road from Helen.

[1964] Yeah.

[1965] Do you think I met him when I was tubing in high school?

[1966] I don't.

[1967] I don't think he did.

[1968] But maybe.

[1969] I think I did.

[1970] Oh, then you met him.

[1971] Yeah.

[1972] Yeah.

[1973] But he lived very close to Helen, Georgia.

[1974] We went to a place to play air hockey that he had competed in a tournament and won.

[1975] Then the locals wanted to kill him because he had dethrone the law.

[1976] local.

[1977] Oh, wow.

[1978] Aaron is a savant with all things hand -eye coordination.

[1979] So any of those stupid bar games, no one can touch him.

[1980] Fuzball, shuffleboard.

[1981] Darts.

[1982] Oh, crazy good dart player.

[1983] Really?

[1984] I've never ever.

[1985] I think it's one of the reasons I'm not very competitive.

[1986] You disagree with me. And you're right.

[1987] I am competitive about certain things.

[1988] I'm not competitive about sportsy things.

[1989] Yeah.

[1990] Largely because I was with someone, A, I grew up with someone five years older than me that was better at everything.

[1991] Yeah.

[1992] And then I was best friends with Aaron who was better at everything physically than me. So I just was like, oh, I'm not going to be good at anything.

[1993] So I'm not going to worry too much about it.

[1994] I think it was like easy for me to go like, oh, that's Aaron's lane and I have a different lane.

[1995] Right.

[1996] I guess because you had your own lane.

[1997] I had my own lane.

[1998] Which was what?

[1999] Skateboarding?

[2000] Well, yeah, it was a much better skateboarder than Aaron and on a bicycle.

[2001] Oh, right.

[2002] Yeah.

[2003] Well, then cars came along and I was better than most of my friends at cars.

[2004] So I guess I am competitive.

[2005] Yeah, I'm very competitive in a car.

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] I'm just not competitive in things I don't think I'm going to be good at, I guess, I've got we found out.

[2008] I think that's fair.

[2009] I have that too.

[2010] Like if I'm in a drawing competition, I don't even care.

[2011] I don't care at all.

[2012] Right.

[2013] Because I just know, oh, I'm bad at that.

[2014] So that's fine.

[2015] Yeah.

[2016] And you know, when we met Aaron and I, we were first becoming friends, we both tried out for the seventh grade basketball team.

[2017] Uh -huh.

[2018] And I wanted desperately to be on it.

[2019] Right.

[2020] But I had never played.

[2021] Right.

[2022] And Aaron did not care about being on it.

[2023] And he made the team.

[2024] And you didn't?

[2025] And then he quit.

[2026] He didn't even play.

[2027] But I did not.

[2028] No, I didn't make it.

[2029] Yeah.

[2030] But then I made it in eighth grade.

[2031] That's like when I brought Callie to my audition and then she got the part.

[2032] Uh -oh.

[2033] For what role?

[2034] It was like my first audition ever.

[2035] Oh, no. Yes.

[2036] In Atlanta, it was for a, like maybe church's chicken.

[2037] I don't actually remember, but eight.

[2038] I think a fast food chain, chicken, for sure, was involved because you had to do the chicken dance in it.

[2039] On Megan Street?

[2040] Yes, on Main Street.

[2041] Oh, my gosh.

[2042] And it was like, bring a friend to this.

[2043] So just so you could have someone to interact with, basically.

[2044] Right.

[2045] And then because she didn't care at all or really know what was going on, she just, like, followed the instructions pretty just clear.

[2046] and I was really in my head.

[2047] Yeah, you had to act up a storm.

[2048] Yes, I just obviously didn't do a good job.

[2049] And she did a great job.

[2050] And then they reached out to my agent about her.

[2051] And then she did it.

[2052] And she filmed it.

[2053] I was upset.

[2054] Did she make a lot of money?

[2055] Millions.

[2056] She's probably still living on that.

[2057] Churches.

[2058] And so I think that she went to grad school off of that money.

[2059] She's church's chicken rich.

[2060] That's right.

[2061] I never saw it.

[2062] Thank God.

[2063] Oh, boy, that would have killed you.

[2064] It would have killed me. Wow.

[2065] At that time, it really would have.

[2066] I mean.

[2067] Well, similarly, Aaron was visiting L .A. one time and I took him to audition to be on some dating show that was on MTV, like an open call.

[2068] Do you know this?

[2069] No, I actually know.

[2070] And he was like, what are you doing?

[2071] Like, he did not understand at all.

[2072] And then so you had this before punked.

[2073] Oh, yeah.

[2074] I don't even have an agent or anything.

[2075] I'm just like combing through backstage West, like anything.

[2076] Yeah.

[2077] And so it's like a dating show on MTV.

[2078] Yeah.

[2079] I have a girlfriend.

[2080] I'm in love with Brie, but I'll still go on this dating show.

[2081] show.

[2082] And there was a like for the audition you were behind this big silhouette that which was like some kind of thin construction papery stuff.

[2083] So you could see a shadow.

[2084] Yes for half the thing.

[2085] And then you would come out from beside and then you do more thing.

[2086] So I went first and I did the whole thing.

[2087] And then when Aaron, it was time for Aaron to come out, he just kicked through he just broke right through the thing.

[2088] And then he didn't want to talk to anyone because he was he wasn't comfortable.

[2089] Yeah, he was shy.

[2090] But he had broke the whole thing.

[2091] And then so we left there, and I was just laughing so hard.

[2092] I mean, he just ruined the whole set.

[2093] Oh, I thought the point was that he was going to get it.

[2094] No, it just reminded me that that could have happened to Aaron and I, but it didn't.

[2095] Okay, so you guys tell the story about the creed singer, Scott Stapp.

[2096] Oh, about his suicide attempt.

[2097] Yes.

[2098] So now, I think he's said before about the suicide, Scott Stap has.

[2099] Yeah.

[2100] But then he sort of took it back.

[2101] Oh, he's recant.

[2102] He is.

[2103] And he's saying, I just had an accident.

[2104] He helped me. He saved me in that way.

[2105] Okay.

[2106] But he's not saying necessarily that it was a suicide attempt.

[2107] So I don't know what the real truth is.

[2108] Who cares?

[2109] Who cares?

[2110] The meat of the story is Tip intervened with a dude who had fallen off.

[2111] Oh, yeah.

[2112] Oh, yeah.

[2113] He'll roll his sleeves up, Tip.

[2114] He'll roll his sleeves.

[2115] Oh, and then he did say, we talked about being fans of Alabama.

[2116] And as I'm lying on the ledge, blood fell to T .I's feet.

[2117] And he looked up and he looked up and he had.

[2118] an Alabama hat on, I said roll tied.

[2119] And then he looked at me and put two and two together and really saved my life.

[2120] Right.

[2121] So in Tip doesn't, he doesn't think he had that hat on.

[2122] Yeah, he thinks it was probably an Atlanta hat.

[2123] And I would guess he's right.

[2124] That seems most plausible.

[2125] But this is the great part about memories and people's accounts of things.

[2126] It's a get real.

[2127] I know.

[2128] We can't trust any of them.

[2129] We can't trust anybody.

[2130] No one knows what the fuck they're saying.

[2131] Myself included, you included.

[2132] We don't know what we're saying.

[2133] We don't know what we're saying.

[2134] I know what I'm saying.

[2135] That's the funny thing that was in the, that Gladwell is in talking with strangers is how people think they're really good at evaluating other people.

[2136] I know, but not their own.

[2137] And they can recognize in the data.

[2138] They can just see it so obvious.

[2139] But then they think they're a very good account.

[2140] Yes, that they're unique to the situation.

[2141] Yeah.

[2142] No, I know.

[2143] I know.

[2144] I know.

[2145] We don't suck.

[2146] That's your pessimist.

[2147] That's your depression talking.

[2148] Oh, okay.

[2149] Thank you.

[2150] We're, catastrophizing the whole thing.

[2151] yeah we can't help it yeah i mean we're not good at it is all i'm saying well it circles back to we were just talking about i mean something as simple as that like you would think there'd be no confusion if a dude who just fell off of a fucking thing and a guy's saving his life and he looks up he sees the guy has a bama hat on and then he says roll tied like you think that that's a lot to imagine and then somehow tip remembers maybe some roll tied conversation but knows he would never be wearing a bama yes hat so both people have very plausible.

[2152] Well, yeah.

[2153] I mean, what probably happened is he was wearing an Atlanta hat.

[2154] He said something about Roll Tide in a heightened state.

[2155] Everyone's in a heightened state here.

[2156] Well, I would hope so.

[2157] Someone's just falling off a balcony.

[2158] There's blood and.

[2159] Exactly.

[2160] Maybe some intoxicants.

[2161] We don't know.

[2162] We don't know.

[2163] Everyone's heightened.

[2164] And then if he says Roll Tide, I'm sure Tip is just like, sure, whatever.

[2165] Like, he's not thinking about that portion of it.

[2166] And also, I think your memory, I don't know this actually, but my guess would be that your memory is more affected when you're in these high stakes moments because your your adrenaline is operating your body.

[2167] Well, you're taking on a lot more information.

[2168] You're in fight or flight.

[2169] Yeah, your senses are heightened.

[2170] Yeah.

[2171] You're seeing more.

[2172] You're hearing more.

[2173] There's a lot going on.

[2174] So maybe because of that, the after effect is like there's no way you can.

[2175] maintain that level of precision, maybe?

[2176] I don't know.

[2177] I'm going to say, yeah, because that's why, like, eyewitness accounts are useless.

[2178] Are useless.

[2179] Yeah.

[2180] Also, because all of those are fairly heightened experiences for people.

[2181] I think this all the time.

[2182] I'll, like, just play a game where I'm like, oh, try to now imagine the bagger at the grocery store's face.

[2183] Like, I'll be in the parking lot.

[2184] Oh, yeah.

[2185] I'm like, forget it.

[2186] They could show me a lineup right now, and I'd probably get, maybe have a 50 percent chance of getting it.

[2187] Yeah.

[2188] Oh, okay.

[2189] So you said that 50 percent of all boys will be physically abused.

[2190] So I cannot find that statistic.

[2191] That's in the credits at the end of the mass you live in.

[2192] Yeah.

[2193] So yeah.

[2194] I mean, I'm looking through these things.

[2195] And I didn't see that.

[2196] I saw one in six boys is sexually abused.

[2197] That I saw.

[2198] But I didn't see the fiscal.

[2199] I'll go back and again I'll double check it because mainly the end is about the end thing is about like how you get involved but there's all these like statistics that pop up throughout along the way.

[2200] See this is this is an example sure you're right yeah I remember it at the end but maybe it's not the meek Mills documentary is called free meek it's on Amazon oh okay that people want to watch that free meek yeah you said recidivism is 70 % or 80 % recidivism rate.

[2201] So 68 % of 405 ,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005.

[2202] This is the last data.

[2203] We're arrested for a new crime within three years of their release from prison.

[2204] And 77 % were arrested within five years.

[2205] And by year nine, that number reaches 83%.

[2206] Ooh.

[2207] So it's pretty, I was in that zone.

[2208] Yeah, it's high.

[2209] a great job no they do a much better job up there in Scandinavia because there's no focus on retraining no rehabilitation exactly skills for going forward yeah work mental health I know that's important none of it's there I know well I shouldn't say none of it's there I'm sure some of these places are doing something yeah yeah that was it well and then the the other documentary we were referring to was called accidental courtesy accidental courtesy we have a hard time remembering that title it's a tricky it's a great title it's a tricky title if uh scott and tip were on a patio there's no way they would both remember that title no they want it no they would not they would absolutely not accidental courtesy yeah really good yeah really enjoy it really good You're only halfway through your beer.

[2210] Will you pound it right now in front of me?

[2211] I don't think so.

[2212] Let's see.

[2213] I have to pee really bad.

[2214] Well, take as big of a sip as you can manage.

[2215] That was as big as I can do.

[2216] You're kidding.

[2217] Oh, I can't take big sips.

[2218] Oh, you can't pound, you couldn't shotgun a beer at a dog's game?

[2219] I don't think so.

[2220] You don't think so.

[2221] And I'm not good at chugging.

[2222] Yeah, you're really just sipping.

[2223] That's good.

[2224] Okay.

[2225] So you had 60 % of a beer.

[2226] Yeah.

[2227] So you won't feel anything from that, will you?

[2228] I feel it a tiny bit.

[2229] Oh, you can't.

[2230] But very tiny.

[2231] Just a light little.

[2232] Tiny.

[2233] Just the tip.

[2234] Just the tip.

[2235] Oh, good job, Wob.

[2236] Way to close it out, Rob.

[2237] Thanks, Wobby Wob.

[2238] Good night.

[2239] Love you.

[2240] Good night.

[2241] Love you.

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