JRE MMA Show #59 with Kamaru Usman

[0] And we're live.

[1] What's up?

[2] How are you?

[3] What's up, Joe?

[4] Dude, you're a roller coaster ride.

[5] What does it like to be the champ?

[6] What's the feeling like?

[7] This is fresh for you.

[8] Well, first of all, I just want to say, man, it's such an honor to be here.

[9] The honor's mine.

[10] I never, I'm going to be honest.

[11] My thing is I'm just going to be 100 % totally transparent.

[12] I was never, I never really watched the show.

[13] I never really kind of heard of this show.

[14] Of course, I heard of you and all the things.

[15] do i'm like oh yeah it's fair factor guy you know but i never really heard of the show until like after like a fighter two in the ufc and people are like tagging me and shit like yo jo rogan's talking about you're talking about you in pocket i'm like fucking podcast because i never listened to podcasts at the time i was like whoop what are you talking about until i finally started listening i'm like oh this dude is for real this dude got some some some pool you got some people watching this shit random people would tag me oh joe was talking about you today on the podcast.

[16] I'm like, oh man, this guy's for real.

[17] And then every time after that that I see you, I'm like, what's up, Joe?

[18] Yeah, we've been talking about you for a long time, man. We were just with your friend out there, we were watching a video of us talking about you back when you were ranked number 12th.

[19] And I was saying, I think you could fight for the title right now.

[20] Yeah, man. And I like to attest it to.

[21] I think, because I went back once I started kind of researching you, I like to go back, Neula research.

[22] And I'm like, fucking.

[23] Joe's been with this, the sport for the beginning.

[24] Like, you were in the back with hair.

[25] 97.

[26] He was hair freaking interviewing the guys that were doing the tournament that were finding multiple fights at night.

[27] And you were interviewing those guys.

[28] And I was like, even back there, Joe had skills.

[29] Joe was a beast.

[30] I had interviewing these guys.

[31] There was no shaking behind it because I, you know, one thing about me, I've gotten into commentating and things like that now.

[32] And I'm like, dang, Joe, it didn't seem nervous.

[33] You were just like a freaking natural at it And the sport was just growing at that time I was like there was nobody watching back then It wasn't as much pressure You know it wasn't like coming into it today Yeah ESPN pay -per -view all that deal It would be a lot of pressure But back then it was just fun Yeah it was weird man The first one I did was in Dothan Alabama And it's weird like I don't know if it was a high school gym Or some small auditorium Tiny little place It was very weird Yeah but you made it look like a freaking certain little walk in the park I mean it was like damn Joe's a good at the Jones been doing this shit for a while well it's a it's an interesting thing to see you know to see it progress from 1997 to where it's at 2019 the biggest difference is not just the amount of eyes that it gets and the amount of people that are paying attention to the real difference is the level of athlete it's a it's a giant leap like in no other sport I don't think there's another sport from 1993 to 2019 where the athletes are almost, it's almost unrecognizable how much better the fighters are.

[34] Absolutely.

[35] You know, it's now, back in the day, it was like, okay, you finished your college career, you finished all this, you've got to the height of whatever, you know, sport you could be, let's start fighting.

[36] And so guys were coming in at 28, 27, starting to learn the tricks.

[37] Now you got freaking 10 -year -old kids sparring.

[38] Yeah.

[39] There's all these crazy videos Like little bitty kids fighting in Like Russia or other places Like they're full on MMA fighting now Yeah, it's a totally different world It's like, yeah, whole promotion I'm like I mean by the time these guys get to 1617 They're gonna be killers Yeah if you go back and watch like a boxing match From like 93 A world champion boxer Or like Marvin Hagler perfect example Marvin Hagler from the 80s Could absolutely hang With middle weights He would fit right in with world champion today.

[40] Absolutely.

[41] But a UFC champ from 93, I mean, God, it's just not the same.

[42] It's not by any strategy.

[43] It's, it is such a, back then it was like a, it was wild.

[44] It was crazy, but nobody had endurance.

[45] And, you know, there was a few guys that had some skill and certainly, like Orlando V or Hoyce Gracie.

[46] There was guys are really good at their individual arts, but there was no real complete fighters yet.

[47] Yeah, you got the transition because it was, everyone came in with their special skills and that was that was the big thing i think ufc even sold that as oh yeah you got the wrestler fighting the combo the you know sambo guy and the jiu jitsu guy and uh so that was the thing everyone came in with their one skill and they put it to the test to see which skill was better it's freaking crazy joe my first fight first time i ever watched a ufc fight i was visiting john jones in college freshman year this was our freshman year, true freshman year.

[48] I was visiting him because I went to a small school, William Penn University, which was about two hours away from him.

[49] He was at Iowa Central in Fort Dodge, Iowa.

[50] So I went to go spend my fall break a whole week with him, just hanging out because we had met the previous year in high school and just, you know, it's two brothers and wrestling.

[51] It was like, hey, two brothers, what's up?

[52] Man, where you going to school next year?

[53] It's like, I'm being Iowa.

[54] I was like, yo, me too.

[55] And so we kept in touch.

[56] And I went up to hang out with him.

[57] And during that week, I was a fight on.

[58] So, like a friend of the team, something like that, invited us to come to his house and watch it.

[59] And we went over there to watch the fights.

[60] I had never really heard of it.

[61] I never really cared.

[62] I was just a freshman just trying to hang out with John and party.

[63] Where was this around?

[64] This was 2005.

[65] I think, yeah, 2005.

[66] So it was like first season of the Ultimate Fighter?

[67] Yeah, 2005.

[68] So we go, I think it might have been Randy Couture somewhat.

[69] John just reminded but I forgot who was fighting and we went to the house party and watched it I really didn't really remember the fight because I didn't really care I never paid attention to it I never thought I would ever do something like that so I just watched it and then I remember the guy saying hey man you guys can do this I want you guys try this and I was like me and John kind of looked at each other like hell no way we're going to do that shit you know wrestling is controlled you know there's rules you know certain things you can or can't do.

[70] There's no way we're doing that.

[71] So we kind of laughed it off and left that day.

[72] You never knew that freaking years later, I'd be doing this.

[73] Not just doing it.

[74] You dethrone the guy who many people, including me, were saying is a very good argument for the best world to wait ever.

[75] I felt like Tyron is like you got to give it.

[76] There's like two, there's legendary status, right?

[77] There's like Matt Hughes has legendary status for being the original.

[78] He was one of the first wrestlers who really knew how to submit guys And then George St. Pierre Was of course, many people's eyes The greatest of all time in the World War II Division Went on this long run But I was like, man, when you If Tyron beats Usman I was like there's a real good argument For him being number one of all time Beating Wonderboy Beat smashing Darren Till Beating Damien Maya Knocking out Robbie Lauer to win the title Absolutely.

[79] I considered him I put him in that conversation Yeah, he's in that conversation for sure for sure i put him in that conversation i you know nothing but respect for tyrant it was nice to see afterwards it was there's a video of you and tyrant's mom and tyrant and tyrant's mom afterward is a beautiful video yeah man it's a tear jerker i i freaking i let it go because i'm one of those guys i never really sit and stop and smell the roses and things like that i always i always have a chip on my shoulder and i'll explain why that is but i always had this chip on my shoulder with everything that I do.

[80] So I never really sit and celebrate and say, oh, yeah, I accomplished this, or I did that or did that.

[81] But I had known, I known his mom.

[82] I had met her previously to that, the fights.

[83] I fought in St. Louis one time.

[84] And, of course, I'd seen her several times at his fights, but I was fighting in St. Louis, and I was there early.

[85] And she was at the hotel.

[86] Tyne wasn't fighting or anything, but she just came to the hotel.

[87] I think she was just hanging out.

[88] And I got to sit with her before, like, all the fighters even came in the town.

[89] I had to sit with her.

[90] I think we sat for a couple of hours, maybe three, four hours, just talking.

[91] I got to know her.

[92] And she was just such an angel.

[93] But at the same time, she's a gastitute.

[94] Like, you can't, you know, she was everything.

[95] And the biggest thing I could compare her to is if you ever seen that show for way back, it's called Touched by an Angel.

[96] and I forget what her name is she's like the famous like black actress and um do you remember that woman's like Adele I forget her name what is it it was Maya Angelou it was it no it wasn't my Angela it was that like I mean she was Maya Angela status how big as she was and inspirational but that's kind of what I compare her to and so we got we got you know I knew her and Tyrant obviously wasn't who I would have chosen to take the belt from but is how long can you you hold yourself back because being a chance there's a huge entire intent himself there's a huge difference between being a challenging a champion yeah and of course i i needed to have my family in that that argument i need i need to get them to that status to where now i'm setting my daughter up i'm setting my everyone up for you know life better life forever and i couldn't continue to hold that back so yeah it was unfortunate that i had to take that from him and i kind of in a sense i felt like I was taken away from what he was doing for them.

[97] So when I saw her walking backstage, I just couldn't control it.

[98] I just let me, I just let go and I just can help but cry on her shoulders.

[99] This is a great, it's a great video.

[100] What is her name was a woman's name?

[101] Actress is Roma Downey.

[102] Roma Downey.

[103] Yeah, yeah, that's her.

[104] The video is amazing because she's hugging you and she's telling you, congratulations and she's telling you that they're going to be coming for you.

[105] So train hard.

[106] Yeah.

[107] And just like her attitude, man, it's beautiful man it's it's amazing her character that she handled that i mean this is her baby her baby just lost and lost every round and it was a you know pretty dominant victory by you and for her to treat you that way afterwards just shows amazing character yeah and it's there it is right here you can see it up here look at her she just embraces you open arms it's all good it's all good baby.

[108] Look at that.

[109] It's your turn.

[110] It's your time.

[111] It's your time.

[112] That's an amazing woman right there.

[113] And keep on working because it's going to come for you.

[114] And you take it to it.

[115] It's all good.

[116] Wow.

[117] That's amazing, man. And even Tyron, the way Tyron handle it.

[118] It's crazy, right?

[119] It makes me cry.

[120] Something in the air over here.

[121] What's going on?

[122] Dude, I got it too.

[123] It made me cry when I saw.

[124] It's making me cry now.

[125] Yeah, man. And the way she treated Tyrant, too, the same thing.

[126] I mean, she's just...

[127] And that's kind of...

[128] That's how my mom is, too.

[129] So I felt such a connection to that, to her, because my mom is the exact same way.

[130] My mom had done the same thing to Tyrant.

[131] And it just, it was powerful, man. It was moving.

[132] And because it's...

[133] And it goes to attest to how the sport has...

[134] How big the sport is as well.

[135] Yeah.

[136] Like, it's not, oh, man, it's just a regular fight.

[137] You guys hate each other.

[138] fighting no this was a competition yeah you know this was two men that went in there for a competition and one guy won and you know and you saw the aftermath they see the family receive each other people love that man they love when people put all that bullshit aside i mean you guys had a lot of trash talk at the press conferences and there was a lot of that going on but that sells tickets and it's good for everybody and it's it's natural and normal but after it was over it was nothing but respect and it's what a lot of people think is wrong about the trash talk of this era because there's this is a there's an error right now right is this we're in the trash talk era absolutely and some people are really good at it and some people are terrible at it but it seems like everybody's trying me maz vidal um recently when he just beat darren till it was very interesting because you know his take on it before the fight was why why why trash talk like what are we doing what do we're gonna fight like what is all this bullshit about like he doesn't like it he was like i don't like where this is going i don't like where this sport is going yeah i mean it was it's one of those things that i had to adjust to because i wasn't brought on those principles i don't i'm not you know you're competitive yeah i wasn't here for a salesman like people ask me all the time why do you do this and i chose to do this like i'm college educated i can get a fucking job and and sit in an office and punch numbers and all that.

[139] But I chose to do this because of my burning desire to compete.

[140] That's what when I, even now, when I compete with guys, I'm not competing angry.

[141] I don't want to kill this guy.

[142] I'm not rah, rah, rah, and all that shit.

[143] No, it's competition for me. My mind is I'm going to beat you.

[144] And which is partially, which goes to attest with how I fight and how I compete.

[145] I'm not like that.

[146] This is not the only thing that I can do.

[147] And so this error came about.

[148] where now everybody you got to talk shit you got to sell you got to do this and do that and so do you feel any pressure to do that initially at some point i did because it was um i was fighting the way i was fighting i was dominating guys and i was getting nowhere right it was like no no variety they were kind of like just kind of putting you on the wayside they would always tell me oh you get a top 10 guy you'll get a top 10 guy but it wouldn't happen it was like oh you you fight this guy and you can't really argue with them because this promotion is giving you the opportunity to even really make money at all for the career path that you've chose so for a while I just felt like man this is not I guess I just got to do this because you saw it the other clown covenant he had to do that he absolutely had nothing has changed with the way that he fights he's done the exact same thing since he'd been in the UFC but after the first cup of fight no one gave a shit so he felt you know what no I'm just going to have to start doing this right everyone knows it it's fake because he just one day woke up and started doing it and that's the thing now you have to do people try to say you have to do that but for me is what I'm not going to do is I'm not going to just sell my soul just to oh yeah I'm just trying to earn a couple bucks because I'm not going to do it the right way George did it the right way and I'm a firm believer that when you do it the right way you will earn what you deserve it will come to you at some point I don't think that you have to.

[149] I really don't.

[150] Yeah.

[151] I mean, Kobe Covington does because that dude's freaking sucks.

[152] He chose, but you gotta give it to him.

[153] He did beat those anjos.

[154] That was a big victory.

[155] He did beat Damien Maia.

[156] That was a big victory.

[157] Those are two legit victories.

[158] We were two very dangerous guys.

[159] He did beat those guys.

[160] Yes, absolutely.

[161] So he's got skill on top of the trash talking.

[162] But the trash talking bumped him ahead of you in line and a lot of us were surprised.

[163] You know, I was surprised.

[164] I was surprised.

[165] I was surprised.

[166] I mean, that he had to do, he had to do it.

[167] and I mean it's gotten him where he has and I mean look what he did last two weeks ago when I fought his whole his whole deal was for me to create an uproar to get my name back in the picture and he did a wonderful job this is one thing that I would say is that he has done a wonderful job at having people talk about him whether you hate him which and even the bosses have said the exact same thing is no one has done what he's done one has ever created the persona that is unanimously hated worldwide.

[168] Like, unanimously, there's not even, he's a heel, like a wrestling heel.

[169] Like, literally, a heel.

[170] Like, those guys they still had fans, you know, that wanted to see him succeed.

[171] Like, nobody like, he's not safe anywhere.

[172] No. You know, you don't even have to be, there's flywitz that want to hurt this guy.

[173] You know?

[174] So, unanimously he has, he's done a good job of creating that, which I love And I appreciate that.

[175] It's going to sell a lot of paper views when you guys fight.

[176] Yeah, I'm not a hater.

[177] I'm not a hater.

[178] Like, I give credit where it's do.

[179] I appreciate the fact that he's done that.

[180] And that's one thing that Rashad taught me over the years is that you have to appreciate certain things like that.

[181] And I do.

[182] I always wanted this moment.

[183] I always wanted that Connor and Khabi, that adversary, that Rashad and Rampage, that Hughes and George St. Pierre.

[184] Like, I always wanted that.

[185] And he's done a good job of creating that.

[186] that so you not just an adversary in terms of like a legitimate worthy opponent but a dude that you want to fuck up absolutely i mean i haven't i haven't met in a fight yet where it was like a malicious like i was maliciously trying to hurt someone right i haven't been in that fight yet yes i don't that's the thing about me's my mind my mind is strong i don't compete oh yeah i'm trying to kill this guy and then you swing five punches you miss now you're dead tired yeah i don't compete like that this one i'm still going to compete as myself but there's going to be a letter extra umph behind these these elbows now i'm going to fillet your face with a little longer cuts i'm trying this one is going to be one that i really enjoy well there was the same with kabib and connor when he said i want to change your face yes when he said that i was like damn that's deep i want to change your face and you saw that even when kabe was like that it is um kabe was never out of character and kabe never was like oh yeah i'm just going to go out of that there and try to kill this guy right there's a certain level there's a certain mentality that certain fighters have to have and kabee is another guy that i've seen that competes similarly to the way that i do as far as his mind where it's at like i don't give a shit what you do talk about me do all this try to distract me like they tried me this whole coming leading up to the tyrant fight they did everything what are you going to do and then you had his his little psychic that looked like Saito Bob that was talking and doing this trying to distract me and this and then Kobe popped up trying to distract me that didn't change anything that's not going to do nothing to me like my mind is on competing I'm going to compete to the best of my abilities and I'm going to embarrass you and then this guy is going to be even more worth it the big change in your skill set from your first fight in the UFC to now as you're striking your wrestling has always been outstanding your cardio has always been excellent but your striking is much more fluid and much looser.

[187] You're much more efficient now.

[188] You were always powerful, but it seems like now everything's falling together.

[189] Like, you don't have any holes in your game anymore.

[190] It's a different thing.

[191] Yeah, Joe.

[192] I've been with my, I've been with my same team since the start.

[193] The same guys that I've been with, you know, Glenn Robinson started our gym.

[194] Unfortunately, he passed away, you know, rest in peace to Glenn.

[195] When did he die?

[196] I didn't even know He died last year.

[197] Yeah, he died last year.

[198] I didn't even know.

[199] Yeah, he had a heart attack, man. And it was sad.

[200] I couldn't really believe that it happened, you know, but it did.

[201] And I'd like to say he's in a better place, you know, but he passed.

[202] And he started all this, you know, him and Rashad Evans.

[203] Rashad needed a new place when he was leaving Jackson's.

[204] And Glenn was kind of like they got together and decided to start this.

[205] And it's Rashad Evans at the top of the.

[206] game who doesn't want to train with Rashad Evans right and so it kind of spread like wildfire to where everyone started going down there but yeah I've been with the same guy Henry Hooft just came down at that time Henry Hooft was a striking coach I mean with him since you know it's a phenomenal coach too amazing coach such a good striking coach those Dutch fundamentals I mean that guy's got it down yeah and a lot of you know there's a I've seen a lot of different coaches different styles I don't, you know, I like a lot of different things but the thing with Henry is he's, he's, it's very basic because at the end of the day, when you're fucking tired and you can't even hold your arms up and do certain things, you're just going to do basic regular shit.

[207] Yeah.

[208] Two, one, two.

[209] That's what you're going to do.

[210] Now, he's in a keep it simple, stupid.

[211] Yeah, he's very like that.

[212] He keeps it simple.

[213] And that was the way for me to learn it.

[214] It's just from the, from the bottom up, I just I learned it I don't get it wrong Joe I can do some of that cool shit Like in practice I'll do A cartwheel kicks I'll do that all that cool shit I can do that Yeah that reverse loop -de -loop Front side taekwondo kick You do all that shit I can try it You know Do you think ever about like moments in fights There are moments in fights Where a fighter will do something The best example Is Chris Wyman versus Luke Rockold and tries this wheel kick out of nowhere and he misses with it Luke gets a hold of him drags him to the ground and beats his shit out of him and it was a Luke has a nasty top game his top game is crushing and he just he just ruthless ground and pound and it changed the course of Chris's career in a lot of ways that beating went on I mean he lost the title and then he lost other fights afterwards but before that he was dominating he had beaten Anderson twice he had crushed Vitor he was a different different thing and that it just there's these moments these pivotal moments and fights when someone just try something I mean most of the time you just get away with it yeah but sometimes like and that is my go -to when I tell people don't try some shit that's not your thing this is the best example Chris Widman throwing that wheel kick against Luke Rockhold yeah you got and that's part of everything that's grouped in with fight IQ you have to be able to assess risk reward and certain things like that and that's kind of at some point it was a knock on me he's like oh this guy never gets out of position he never does any of the cool shit or any of that you know it's kind of who's giving you that knock fucking people you can't listen to them come to me no joe i was like he's doing everything perfect yeah like i was saying a long time ago it's like this guy's not fucking up yeah like he keeps running through guys and he's beating guys like a world champion already yeah a lot of people always kind of you know like oh he didn't do all this, he's not doing all that.

[215] But the thing with me is is being able to assess when I can do that, when I can't do that.

[216] Right.

[217] Like when I fought RDAA, I threw a freaking axe kick in the fifth round.

[218] Right.

[219] And I was, I practiced that and practiced.

[220] I catch guys with it all the time.

[221] And it's just being able to assess risk and reward.

[222] Yeah, I knew that there was you know, it was an opportunity for me to start letting go.

[223] Yeah.

[224] And so I started letting go.

[225] And I'm I mean, RDA is a tough, tough dude.

[226] Very tough dude.

[227] He's a tweeter, right?

[228] He seems like he's a tweener to me. Like, he's not quite a 170.

[229] I mean, he could beat a lot of guys at 170, but it's almost like he should be like 160 or 165.

[230] Yeah.

[231] But 155 is too hard of a cut for him these days.

[232] Yeah, but the thing is, that's just, that's nature.

[233] Yeah.

[234] Because if we started saying, okay, we're going to accommodate everybody.

[235] It's never going to stop.

[236] Do you think there should be more weight classes?

[237] Well, you don't care.

[238] I don't care.

[239] 170 works for you.

[240] It's still a hard cut.

[241] Is it?

[242] What do you walk around that?

[243] 190?

[244] 180, 180 to 180 to 180?

[245] Believe it or not, like for most people that are listening to this, that's on the light side.

[246] Yeah.

[247] No, absolutely.

[248] I know it is.

[249] But the thing is, I'm so lean.

[250] And I'm 180.

[251] I'm walking around below 6 % body fat.

[252] Who do you, oh, wow.

[253] Who do you use to cut for a wake cup?

[254] For the last couple of fights, man, I've been working with Clint, Clint Whitemberg up at P -I and Tri -Fecta.

[255] Yeah, and Tri -Fecta.

[256] I like Clint a lot.

[257] Yeah, and Clint, man. Trifecta.

[258] Food system.

[259] T trifecta.

[260] Essentially, you know, the meal, delivery, meal prep stuff.

[261] Okay.

[262] And they do a phenomenal job, phenomenal.

[263] And Clint, the reason I chose to go with him is I've always did it by myself.

[264] I like to cook.

[265] I cook for myself.

[266] I always, you know, when all those fights, earlier fights in the UFC, every one of my fights, I was in charge of my own diet.

[267] I cook for myself.

[268] I do this.

[269] because I've done it so many years in wrestling all the wrong way I can look at myself I can wake up in the morning look at myself in the mirror and tell how much I weigh and I'll be right on just because I'm so used to my body so I know what I can or I can't eat what can hold food or I can hold water and it's just a discipline thing for me as well and so I decided you know what I'm getting higher up now one thing that I don't understand is that I haven't done the research is what foods to eat before a certain practice at certain times to feel me the best to make me help help me feel the best because I'm getting older and things aren't the same they you the way they used to be I'm 31 and I'm gonna be 32 in May and I'm like man I just don't feel like what differences have you noticed a lot of difference yeah like at 24 I just fucking wake up at 6 a .m and I can go for a freaking five -mile run like that with nothing now I can't do that anymore do you think that is age or do you as miles like all the hard training it's a combination because 31 you're in your athletic prime yeah it's a combination of both because in wrestling years i got to be in the late 40s i mean wrestling years i'm late 40s i mean back is is a shot my you know my shoulders are shot my knees oh my god my knees i've had five knee surgeries jesus christ yeah i saw you limping did you have one recently i just had surgery actually um had surgery on tuesday oh that's a hernia I had a double hernia.

[270] Jesus.

[271] So did you fight with the double hernia?

[272] I tore it before, like five weeks before the fight, but I don't know if it was completely off.

[273] You had a hernia and a broken foot for that fight?

[274] That is fucking crazy.

[275] The funny thing is, and Ali makes fun of me about this, my manager, is like all fight week.

[276] Like, if you saw me, you would think this guy was like a zombie.

[277] Like, I limp around, I have freaking lichen patches on me, and I'm in a boot or, or or sleeve and all I do all day is I go do the media rounds or whatever I need to do training come back and I'm just in my room either game ready on me or something on me but when I walk through that door to fight the Nigerian nightmare wakes up I flip the switch and a lot of people would if they go back and look at videos of when I walk into the cage I step right before the cage I pray say my prayer for protection and when I walk in I just freaking turn if it's like flip that switch do you have a prayer that you say every time?

[278] yeah you have the exact same thing yeah what do you say similar along those lines i just i basically just a prayer for protection prayer for me to be able to display the best of my abilities it's never i i'm not selfish it's not i'm not getting in that prayer please let me win no it's it's please protect me in here so i can go back to my family safe and sound and protect my opponent as well and give me the strength to be able to display it the best of my abilities and that's it and once i freaking walk through that door i'm the freaking nigerian nightmare i just that's it you feel like a different person i am i am and you see it in my face i'm i'm good and dandy but when i walk in it goes away i've i just i transform into that person yeah i think a lot of people would be surprised at how friendly and easygoing you are outside people can't tell and that's the thing now is there's really i haven't i don't i don't there's no change in me i'm still the same freaking guy since i haven't done anything since i nothing people are like asking me have you gone on partying this and there with the bell no i haven't done shit he sleep with it i know my daughter i brought it from my daughter my daughter did but i didn't i didn't do anything i just sit on the couch watch tv go back maybe go to the uh the shop that i like to take my daughter to get uh get french toast she loves this one place so i take her there come back that's it or maybe take her to a date night the only difference is now a lot of the people are starting to recognize me more so like i'm walking out the movies people will stop me hey can i get a picture can i get a picture yeah of course you know but nothing changed i'm the same freaking guy i haven't got a chance to do anything i had surgery last tuesday i've been in bed for weeks so i haven't done anything but i don't think anything is going to change i'm the same guy well you sound like you have the perfect attitude like the idea that you're having making a prayer to just do your best and not be hurt and not have your opponent hurt and protect you and your opponent.

[279] That is a beautiful attitude and the fact that the way you're approaching this, I mean, you're just here to compete and to do your very best.

[280] Although you're free of the burden of a lot of bullshit that some people carry around with them.

[281] Joe, and I was thinking about this on the way up is a lot of those fighters, a lot of those champions, like after a while, they feel this certain pressure yeah to to be able to do this or that and and and some of the examples that I gave is there's so much pressure Anderson silver I almost felt like he couldn't wait to lose yeah he was just like it's like a pressure the way you just want to put it down you imagine you said that to me when BJ Penn beat him yeah you said it was just so much pressure is that actually and I feel like it was so much pressure george sampier ran away from the sport because of that pressure yeah you know some people for me I don't feel shit I was just I was just thinking I was like I don't care like look at this fight now they're coming to fight right everyone's already bringing making a big deal out of it it's another fight for me I don't even think of myself as oh you're the champion I don't care I just want to beat this guy up do you think that you will care though when the media obligations and all that shit happens or do you think you'll just be able to zan your way through all that shit um I would be lying to say I would never care, I would be, I think that would be doing an injustice, but I feel like I go to certain people, like I have some of my go -to people that I, I get to, I call on my mental coaches.

[282] And like Rashad, the biggest thing that I learned, I talked to Rashad about is Rashad was always pouring into me, like, man, just enjoy, man, enjoy the ride.

[283] You'd be okay with that feeling because there was a certain time where I was a little more nervous than usual.

[284] I was, I was nervous for what, one, I think, I can't remember.

[285] remember the fight and i was nervous and rich i was like man just make friends with that feeling be okay with it make friends with the feeling of being like understand that it's okay to feel that way yeah and just be okay with it and so that i go back to those feelings and even there was just an exercise when i was wrestling i was living at the olympic training center i was training and i started feeling all this pressure that that a lot of people put on me oh you're division two guys you can't be Olympic champion.

[286] You can't do this.

[287] You can't do that.

[288] And my coach at the time, Brendan Slay was like, yeah, a lot of people made, you know, made put that pressure on me when I was competing too, and said that, oh, you're too short.

[289] You can't beat these guys.

[290] You can't beat Bovase, Satya, the, you know, the most famous Russian wrestler of all the time.

[291] And they were saying, you can't beat them.

[292] You can't do this.

[293] You can't do that.

[294] And he said, one exercise he should do is he'll think of all these negative thoughts.

[295] Because people start saying it, in your mind, it's, you go.

[296] goes into your mind you know especially now with all these fans tweet shit and say stuff to you you read it no if you read it it's in there and so one thing he said you should do is just put all those thoughts in a just imagine this envision this glass jar you just put them all in the jar shut the lid grab a big sledgehammer and you just smash it and it sounds silly but i was like oh it wasn't until a little while after i started kind of doing that so when i started down myself man can I do it can I do a good deal with oh man this guy he can meet me I mean what if he knocks me out and embarrassing me in front of everyone then I'm like snap the fuck out of it man put it in that jar put in that jar and smash it I'm like have fun with it man you're supposed to feel like this Rashad said you're supposed to feel like this yeah man it's yeah and I just take a deep breath I smile and I just I snap back in and Eddie Alvarez also is uh it's like someone I consider a brother and these are the guys that that I go to for when I start to feel down and I I talked to Eddie quite a few times before this last fight.

[297] When I start feeling a little bit of pressure, I talked to them.

[298] And they just kind of, they snapped me back.

[299] Were you getting frustrated that you weren't being considered amongst the top contenders when you were undefeated?

[300] You were dominating all these people.

[301] And you were seeing, like, when Wonderboy got two shots, and then, you know, you saw the Damien Maya fight and all these other fights.

[302] Was that hard for you?

[303] Yeah, it was.

[304] It was a time where I'm not going to lie, Joe.

[305] I was like, why the fuck am I doing this?

[306] I'm going to keep fighting for 25 and 25, 30 and 30.

[307] Right.

[308] What?

[309] What?

[310] The thing is, what a lot of people don't understand is they think, oh, man, it's that 15 minutes that you're out there or that 25 minutes you're out there, training, fighting, and that's it.

[311] You know, you got paid 10 at 10.

[312] Bro, you just did, I just did a five -month training camp to where I had to eat.

[313] Right, for five months.

[314] For $20 ,000.

[315] Yes, if you win.

[316] And on top of it, it's, that's society so backwards nowadays.

[317] To eat clean food is more expensive.

[318] So for me to just eat clean for five months, I'm already five, ten grand in the hole.

[319] On top of it, you got bills coming every month.

[320] That's not going anywhere.

[321] Yeah.

[322] You know, just to train for these fights, I was spent more than that.

[323] And you have taken more damage than that.

[324] Because that's when you really take damage.

[325] I'm sparring, and when I fractured my foot, that happened the last week in training.

[326] My last sparring session.

[327] I kicked someone in the face.

[328] Boom, my foot's gone.

[329] How bad was the foot?

[330] It was bad.

[331] At first, I just figured, you know, it's like more tight.

[332] You kick shins and elbows all the time, and, you know, you get the little fractures.

[333] But that, you know, you work on it, and that's gone in a week.

[334] But this one just wasn't going away.

[335] The swelling kept coming back and coming back.

[336] So I'm starting freaking out.

[337] I'm like, oh, shit, I think I really.

[338] broke something and so i started freaking out and then a day or two three days four days i get it worked on i have a really special compression socks that i have on it at all time and i'm icing this thing four times a day and it's not going away i'd wake up the swelling would be bigger i'm like oh man i did damage so and then i kept walking on it and i having it because i have to practice because i got to keep that weight down i got to keep that metabolism going and so i'm just like man there's no way I'm not fighting like you only get an opportunity once if I call and say I'm pulling out of this I might not ever get a shot again and so I'm like I'm gonna fight and there was no doubt in my mind of what I could do I was just it's gonna happen I'm already dealing with the hernia situation and so I'm like screw it and the thing about me is I haven't ran in three years Joe I have not your knees yeah my knees are so bad i have not ran how the fuck do you have such good cardio what are you doing for cardio i everything i do i do i do freaking hard i'm on that air dying and and man shout out to my strength conditioning coach dr corey peacock man he's also on it too i mean cori's uh we put in we put in some time man and it's not just him it's my coaches with gregg gregg jones when we wrestle we wrestle i wrestle freaking hard and when i i can't do it often anymore but i i wrestle hard when i When I hit pads, I hit pads hard with Henry.

[339] Everything that I do in my mind, I try to do it at the speed that I would want to do it in a fight.

[340] Or even greater.

[341] Because my whole mentality is when you get tired, when people get tired, that's your threshold.

[342] That's where you're at.

[343] So that's why your body feels like that.

[344] Oh, I'm tired.

[345] This is as far as I can go.

[346] I try to get to that as fast as possible.

[347] Boom, because then everything after that is extra.

[348] I just push that conditioning more and more and more.

[349] So I just freaking go hard Everything that I do I do it hard Of course I do it smart But I do it hard But I haven't ran Joe in almost three years That's crazy because one of the most impressive things about the fight Is you never let your foot off the gas And in the fourth round I think it was When you had Tyron hurt And when you really started pouring it on I was like okay he's trying to finish this fight How much gas is he going to have left in the tank Because you know that sometimes when someone tries to finish someone and they can't They're done You know you poured it on you took a couple of deep breaths then right back on him and I'm like damn that's some serious fucking cardio yeah Joe I was sprinting in my mind I watched that back I was like what the fuck was I doing I was swinging like wow wow man just because I saw the light at the end of the tunnel yeah and I was like you know and I'm it's like I was sprinting towards it but then he caught you get it dimmer and dimmer I was like oh shit fucking slow down tyrant's tough as fuck man he was tough as fuck he ate some big shots and uh people didn't really see it what happened what started that transition we were in the clint i had him in the in the tie clinch and i think he was trying to work on my body and i hit him with the knee i hit him with another knee and in my mind i just remember some of the trainings that i've been through i've been in that situation in training and i used to train with uh cosmo alexandra moir Thai guy yeah freaking amazing and one thing that he would show me is how more Thai guys would sneak in elbows And so I'm in there, and I'm like, Tyron's not really getting out of this.

[350] So I'm like, freaking, let me try it.

[351] And this elbow that you throw, it's a sideways elbow.

[352] And I'm in there, I throw a knee in, and I just threw the sideways elbow.

[353] And it doesn't look hard.

[354] It doesn't look crazy or anything like that.

[355] But it was like side of the head.

[356] And I just felt that land.

[357] And I'm trying to, because you got to read fast.

[358] So I'm trying to read him.

[359] I'm trying to assess him.

[360] I'm like, he hurt because he kind of stumbled back.

[361] but Tyrant has a very good poker face so he has this nonchalant face on and I'm trying to read him I'm like wait wait so I kind of fake a little fake at him to see if he's trying to set me up for a big shot and I fake he doesn't throw anything you keep sand so I'm like oh shit so I throw a jab and I throw a right hand I threw it across his guard to hit him and he really didn't look didn't change it didn't look like he was out there I was like oh shit he's hurt freaking let's go let's go time and i remember i talked to eddie alvarez and i asked him why did he freak out like that when he had rdaa hurt and eddie was just like man i saw that light at the end of the tunnel and i just freaking i had to empty the tank and i'm like fuck it empty the tank let's go this is my moment empty the tank so i'm throwing like a madman and tyrant is taking it all and he's tough as shit i'm like damn he's not going down and there was a couple of times he was rot to look like he could went down and all I had to do is really settle back and hit him with clean shots but I wasn't even fucking thinking about that I was just like get this guy out of here now this is what I wanted to do put the stamp on it let's freaking do it it was a hell of a barrage yeah and I'm throwing I'm throwing I'm throwing I'm like red line red line the gas take is on e it's on e it's on e it's on e which is the only reason I even shot in for a shot I was and then I heard my coach is saying take him down.

[362] So what they were like, I wasn't freaking knocking him out.

[363] They were like, take it down.

[364] I was like, I was like, and I grabbed his leg and tried to, but that was the thing.

[365] I could recover pretty quickly.

[366] So you recovered very quick because it was one of those pivotal moments in a fight where I was like, man, if Tyrant doesn't go out here, how much does he have left?

[367] I knew, I was scared because I was like, I know he knows he's probably down three to four rounds.

[368] Yeah.

[369] And I knew I was like, I was in a sense waiting for him to just start and let and go to snap out of it.

[370] But that's one thing you never really give yourself enough credit with your game is with my game is I feel like I put people in a trans in like a certain stage to where they just know getting out of it.

[371] And I and that's kind of been a knock on me. People are saying, oh, you're not finishing fights.

[372] You're not doing this.

[373] You're not submitting guys.

[374] You're not knocking them out.

[375] This is my mentality on that.

[376] And this has been since I was wrestling.

[377] As they were wrestling, you could pin guys really quick, do slick moves and pin guys.

[378] But then the guys would get up and say, oh, man, I never seen that move before.

[379] He caught me in this slick mood.

[380] That's why he got me. Now, I'm going to get him next time.

[381] I'm going to do that.

[382] I'm going to get him.

[383] And the same thing with the fight, it's like, man, I had my hand down.

[384] And he caught me sleeping.

[385] So he caught me with a shot.

[386] It was a lucky shot.

[387] He's not, never going to do that shit to me. Next time, I'm going to get him.

[388] Or he caught me with a slick submission.

[389] I never seen that before.

[390] for, I'm gonna train for it next time he's gonna, I'm, I'm, stop him.

[391] My thing is, even the wrestling, what I always wanted to do is I wanted to tech fall guys in wrestling.

[392] And tech fall, what that means is when you're beating someone by 15 points, you have a 15 point gap, they stop the match because it's basically a skunk, like you skunked this guy, like he sucked that, like you were beating him that bad, they had to stop it.

[393] That is my mentality.

[394] That is always what I strive for.

[395] And in 2011, I believe I, not 2011, 2009, I led the nation, Division 1, 2, and 3, NAI, whatever, in Tech Falls.

[396] I think at one point, me and Brett Metcalf was battling.

[397] Like, every week I would look and see who had the most tech falls.

[398] It was me, be him, be me, him.

[399] And I had the most because that was my goals.

[400] I wanted to skunk guys because in their mind, what it says is you can't fuck with that guy.

[401] You can't hang with him.

[402] there was nothing you can do it not it didn't it wasn't a quick pin a lucky pen or or this like he destroyed you he just set levels apart and that's what i do even in fighting now i do the exact same thing is i would much rather dominate you from start to finish i want to break you i don't want i when you think about fighting me again it's not you i don't want you to you i want you to say fuck no i don't no shit no he beat me everywhere he broke me he took something from me because you're going to think about you only remember the fights you lose you know like i've been so many guys in i can't tell you maybe 30 guys that i beat in wrestling i don't have no idea but the ones you lose you can almost tell everyone and that's what my my take on it i want to dominate you so bad when you think about fighting me again you don't you say fuck that i'll pass on that fight and so people are like oh man this guy doesn't really finish guys but how many guys want to fight me again Not a lot of them Do you have one loss in MMA?

[403] Yes, I do One loss, right?

[404] Yeah, I have one loss It's my second fight Um Caceres I forget his name I forget his first name Um It's the Cicera Is it Jose Ciceres?

[405] No, Alex Caceres Yeah, it's Jose Ciceres His name is Jose Caceres His name is Jose Ciceres I think it's older brother Oh Yeah and oh man It was I took the fight on like Two weeks or something like that because it was like eight months in between I fought my first fight and I thought see that's the thing with fighters coming into MMA now this is a lesson to you guys everyone feels like oh I'm just going to jump in and it's going to be peach I'm going to be getting fights every other week every other month no so I fought my first fight and I thought okay this is great my career is kickstarting I'm going to be doing fights never so often I went through 20 like 22 opponents within my first fight before I got the second fight because now it was Google now everyone oh fuck he's a national champion wrestler now I don't want to fight that because everyone wants to get to the UFC and they figure oh it's the best record you want to be undefeated to get to the UFC so nobody wants to fight anyone that's hard right and so of course at that point I was a wrestler I could take anyone down to hold him down for three rounds and wouldn't fight so everyone no one wanted that fight so it was months and months went by and then that fight came about I was just like shit I'll take it And I'll be honest, I never grappled before that.

[406] I never did jiu -jitsu.

[407] And so I figured I can wrestle my way through all this shit.

[408] Like, man, fuck these guys.

[409] These guys are all low -level guys.

[410] You know, look who I train with.

[411] I train with Rashad Evans and these guys.

[412] Those guys can't touch me. I get in a fight.

[413] I throw a one -two.

[414] His legs are there.

[415] Like hit him with a one -two, boom, boom.

[416] Double -leg.

[417] Like, live within 15 seconds.

[418] Boom, threw him down, full mouth.

[419] And I'm kind of throwing punches.

[420] I didn't really know what I was doing.

[421] I'm throwing punches and I'm trying to elbow him.

[422] And Jose Caserta's, I think, 6 -2, 6 -1, 6 -1, 6 -I - I don't know.

[423] He's well tall than me. Long limbs.

[424] He throws his legs, I'm in full amount.

[425] He throws his legs around my body.

[426] I never seen no shit like that before.

[427] Right.

[428] My mind at that time was like, what is, oh, shit, what's this shit?

[429] I didn't know what to do.

[430] So I'm like So I start Kind of panicking in my mind I don't know what to do I'm like Fucking get out Which is what you don't do Right So I turn my body I'm trying to like Get up and walk out Which is what you don't do And so he just basically Climed up my back Boom We're not even sweating yet Boom he's on my back I'm standing up With a backpack on He's six something He has a foot on the ground One foot wrapped around me He's fighting for the choke and I think I hold them off for another like minute and half I'm standing and I'm fighting this choke all the while I'm thinking like oh shit I can't go down because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing down there as well right so I don't really know the defense down there so if I go down I just might make it worse I don't know the defense and this dude looks like he knows what he's doing behind me he's got a few more he's got a few fights and I'm I'm kind of scared and I'm fighting it now I'm standing up my feet are getting heavy it's getting shaky i'm like i'm a strong guy why my feet shaking because they're starting to fill up with blood my adrenaline is pumping and i'm just like oh shit i'm about to lose joe there's this moment in your mind to where you start to come to realization with certain things yeah i'm like oh shit i'm about to lose and what and then i start thinking about random thoughts and one of the thoughts that I thought about was before the fight we had a commission meeting in the back and the commission said if you get choked unconscious you're suspended for six months so you can't fight for six months because in my mind I'm like fuck this I'm a tough guy I'm you got to put me to sleep I ain't never tap it so I'm like if I get it took me eight months to get this fight And this is short notice fight I haven't made money in eight months I'm broke as shit I sleep and I live with Rashad I live with another man I'm broke as shit I have no money I need money So if I can't fight for another six months I have no money So all these thoughts are going through my mind And I hear Alex Casares On the other side of the cage screaming He's gonna tap He's almost out And I'm like fuck am I going to tap I'm like fucking well played Alex now I'm thinking about tapping just for that shit hell man and I just saw it going down and I'm like you can't be suspended for six months bro I know you want to be tough right now you want to go to sleep but you can't be suspended for six months bro you have to you got to you know you got to make money you're broke I fucking tap Joe I fucking tap I never felt so I don't want to say emasculated if that's the word I never felt so like I just that's what I said like winter lose it takes something from you and I walked out of that fight I went to the back I paced for like maybe two three hours in the back all the fights finished up and I finally went to locker room got my stuff and came out but I just paced back and forth and the feeling in my mind was I am never going to feel like this again I do not ever want to feel like this And ever since then, I got a fucking ghee.

[431] I never had a ghee before.

[432] I got a ghee.

[433] I started training with George Santiago, my jiu -suitz coach every fucking morning.

[434] I was like, bro.

[435] I saw he gave you your black belt after the fight.

[436] He gave me my black belt.

[437] And this is the thing is I never worried about that.

[438] I never worried about it.

[439] Like, yes, I was freaking beating up blue belts before I was even a white belt.

[440] Like, yeah, because I never did that skill, trained in jihitsu skills.

[441] But I knew how to grapple through certain things.

[442] Sure.

[443] You know, I've been grappling at a high level, but he wasn't just jujitsu.

[444] So he kept challenging me. Like, I was always, because I want to be that guy.

[445] I want to be the freaking blue belt that freaking works all the brown and black belts.

[446] But he would freaking promote me. He's like Purple Belt.

[447] Because you've been training, you're training the geek.

[448] I'm going to promote you.

[449] So he kept challenging me and challenging him.

[450] So now people knew, I felt like all it was doing was alerting people of what to expect when they went with me. And for them to try.

[451] to really fuck me up and so he promoted me I think a couple years ago it was Brown Bell I think maybe two and a half three years ago and then he promoted me to Black Bell he just asked me to come in the gym I didn't really even know I just felt like okay man he wants everyone to take pictures with the belt and he freaking gives me my Black Belt another thing just floored me I was like shit I never knew I never expected all of this I just wanted to fucking compete right I just wanted to be a martial artist, learn all this stuff, and compete.

[452] I never knew that I'd get a black bell.

[453] I never knew that I would win the championship bell, be the best in the world at this, at that time.

[454] So I never knew all that.

[455] How much did you adjust your training to incorporate Jiu -Jitsu?

[456] Did you add more training sessions, or did you substitute?

[457] Absolutely.

[458] What I would do is, because I was living with Rashad at the time.

[459] So what I would do is I would somehow get to the gym, because Rassad was traveling a lot.

[460] This was at the height.

[461] He was doing a lot of different shows and stuff.

[462] And so I would go to the gym at 7 a .m. We'd have 7 a .m. practice.

[463] I think Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays, George would have a class.

[464] And I would go and take that class.

[465] And then our pro class was, I think it was at 9.

[466] So I would just stay at the gym while the pros came in for the practice at 9.

[467] So I would go through that class as well.

[468] And then after that, whether lift on my own, strengthening condition, And dumb ass me, that's what I said.

[469] I was 20 -something at that time.

[470] I wasn't eating in between all the sessions.

[471] I wasn't doing any of this.

[472] I was just freaking going, going, going, going.

[473] So you'd eat breakfast and that was it?

[474] I didn't eat breakfast at that time.

[475] You didn't even eat breakfast?

[476] I didn't even eat breakfast.

[477] I would get up cold, go to the gym and workout.

[478] Then roll into the next session and workout.

[479] Then roll into straining condition, whatever I did on my own workout.

[480] No food.

[481] No food.

[482] And then freaking go home, eat a big meal.

[483] snap, then go back for the night session, night practice.

[484] And that's how I was for a long, long time.

[485] And Rashad would always come home and say, hey, man, why don't you come out with me this weekend?

[486] Let's go out.

[487] Let's go out.

[488] Let's go out.

[489] And I was always like, no, man, I got a train on Monday, man. I don't want to do all that.

[490] I don't want to go out.

[491] And Rashad would be like, bro, you got to have balance in this.

[492] It's got to be a balance.

[493] And I was just thought at that time.

[494] I'm like, oh, fuck that.

[495] You say that because you're at the top.

[496] You're the champ.

[497] You're the best.

[498] So you say that.

[499] my whole thing was I'm just need to work I need to catch up I need to catch up to these guys I need to work so I was just doing overtime overtime overtime but you know now I understand what Rashad was saying there has to be balanced yeah when did you just your eating I think um we got a stranded conditioning coach Jake Banachi and Jake amazing coach man he worked with a lot of the extreme Couture guys work with like Randy and those guys back in the day and uh he's kind of started like you you got to fuel yourself he kind of started you know letting me in and I seek that's the thing about me I seek knowledge like I'm always I always want to learn I always want to learn whatever I can and I started learning like oh shit no wonder I was dead tired in that session no wonder I had nothing left because I really didn't eat I had no fuel so I started kind of putting things in and and the more and more like I said it wasn't until my last two or three fights that I started working with Trifecta and Clint Wittenberg and just, you know, I seek knowledge if whenever I can get knowledge, I take it.

[500] So these trifecta folks, what kind of stuff they prepare for you?

[501] Man, they prepare my meals and they send it to me. They send me the, like I said, I like to cook for myself.

[502] Like they send you like a cooler or prepackaged food?

[503] Yeah, they send me the prepackage food, but I'm not so much into the prepackaged stuff.

[504] Like, you know, just throwing a microwave and eating.

[505] I'm not so much like that because I like hot food.

[506] I want it to feel fresh.

[507] so they'll send me like the packages like the protein and the chicken and the steak or the fish and things like that and basically i take it out my response to be to take it out i think it's pre -cooked but i take it out and i put it over the stove and make some you know veggies with it and other stuff that i want with it and and i'll cook it that way so it seems more like a fresh meal even though it's kind of pre -made just from my mind right i get it i get it so um did they have a have broken down with a certain amount of calories for each meal, depending upon what kind of working out you're doing.

[508] Yeah, man, Clint broke it down.

[509] Like, I give him my schedule for the week, and he breaks it down, like, this is what you need to eat, four servings of protein, first servings of carbons of carbs, fats, and this and this and that, before you're weightlifting session, before you're sparring, before this, you need this, this amount of sugar and this amount of this, this amount of that.

[510] Man, made a big difference because I would, there'd be certain practice.

[511] I would lift, and I'm like, fucking, yeah, I feel good.

[512] I want to get out of there to where usually I hit a wall like boom fucking this is miserable you were getting by toughness yeah yeah I just I just grind through it that UFC Performance Institute is amazing it's just incredible what they did I mean when they were just talking about building now I was like what is this going to be like what are they doing there they spend a lot of money yeah who knows what the fuck it's going to be but then they took me on a tour of it I was like this is literally the ultimate training facility in 10 years it is still be year up to date and still be like okay this thing is now catching up like they're napping pods I know I know they took me there I was like bro I can just live here yeah I know you can literally live there well a lot of people relocated to Vegas just to make that the center of their training oh yeah yeah I see like Claudia Godellia is down there Francis and Gano did a lot of training but he trained for his last fight in France I believe yeah his last two fights he did it in France and um yeah we you know like that's my boy we we talk all the time and um that's the scariest heavy weight of all time like i don't understand what people are people a lot of people like especially after those last couple of fights the derrick lewis fights people were like these fans man they were condemning him like this guy's is and and yeah it's one of those things you just got to give you got to give him time to recover from the steep a fight he had a psychological A block But he got over it With Curtis Blades He stopped Curtis Blades He was one of the best guys In the heavyweight division Curtis is a big guy Corus was a beast as well And even for this fight Everyone's like Oh, Kane's going to do him Kane's going to do Kane's a better version of Steepay And I get it Like I understand Kane Kane is the greatest Heavyweight we've ever Really seen You know I mean You know DC right now That's an argument too you know but cane was great but can's been gone for almost three years two and a long time and people are putting all this pressure on him that expecting him to come back and be the same old cane like nothing happened right and i'm like guys like and then not to come back come back against the scariest heavyweight we've ever ever ever i mean frances clip you a little bit the first time he lifted weights was with me what frances never touched weights ever and that's a scary thing you go to Africa and there's thousands millions of guys like like that walking around I was saying that his story is like it's like that Conan scene where Conan was like pushing the wheel like he was he was working in a sand mind just digging sand yeah and becoming this tank of a man it's crazy it's obviously superior genetics on top of that because you don't get to be 265 naturally yes just i mean you have to have fantastic genetics he's got that too but his ability to land punches that just put people away with like he can graze you and fuck you up absolutely and and then speed oh people like i tried to i tried to spar with him i tried to spar with him once yeah you were 170 why he's faring with him i mean it was just playing around and that's the thing in our room like everybody spars with everybody right and And he loves sparring with smaller guys.

[513] He loves it.

[514] Because it's not, yeah, because it's not, he's not trying to hurt anymore.

[515] He's not trying to hurt you.

[516] But it's just, he likes working on his speed.

[517] He's so fast.

[518] I think he's faster than me. Forced.

[519] Like, I mean, it's, and I'm like, he's that fast with that much power.

[520] I mean, if he even, and that's what I say, if he touched anywhere near this circumference right here, you're going to wake up and ask what happened.

[521] Well, that's what, Kane was saying that he was.

[522] he didn't remember what happened when Francis Francis apparently grazed him with the first punch near the back of his head and Kane don't remember shit after that and then clipped him with that uppercut on the inside everyone was saying like oh he hurt his knee that's what happened no he got hit with a punch in there it was a small sharp punch it's all it takes with that guy but yeah yeah what's amazing that Stepe weathered the storm that's what's amazing it goes you gotta give credit to Stepe I mean Steepay weathered the storm when Francis was convinced he was going to put Steepay away after the Overeem destruction.

[523] I mean, he put Overeem into orbit.

[524] Yeah.

[525] To watch that, it was like, holy shit.

[526] And you think the striking credentials of Alistair, I mean, Alistair's glory heavyweight champion, Strike Force heavyweight champion, K -1 Grand Prix.

[527] I mean, he won the three of the most prestigious titles in combat sports.

[528] And to have Francis clip him like that was just like, Jesus.

[529] That goes to a test to MMA.

[530] This is why the sport's so great.

[531] It doesn't matter where you come from, what you're good at it.

[532] It doesn't matter.

[533] With those four -ounce gloves and being able to wrestle and grapple and do all this.

[534] Everything changes.

[535] It's an even playing field for everybody.

[536] Yeah.

[537] Now, if he just gets his wrestling on point, I mean, it's crazy.

[538] He's only been doing MMA all told for, what, five years now?

[539] Yeah, five, six years.

[540] That's crazy.

[541] I mean, I made this switch around the same time.

[542] We had her first official UFC fight the same time.

[543] Wow.

[544] Yeah.

[545] What was your first year of your first fight?

[546] What was your first fight?

[547] My first fight, I think, was in 2013 or 2012.

[548] So seven years ago, which is crazy.

[549] And how much striking had you done before your first fight?

[550] Not a lot.

[551] I mean, the thing with me is, like, I used to watch videos.

[552] When I was convinced myself, like, I was going to start doing this.

[553] And this has been years in the making.

[554] Like, I was, I coached on season 14 on the Ultimate Fighter with Bispying and Mayhem Miller.

[555] I was a mayhem's wrestling coach.

[556] Wow.

[557] So, and that was the season with T .J. Dillishaal, John Dodson, Dennis Bermuda, as and all these guys.

[558] And so at that point, I had started to, shout out to Ryan Parsons, man. Dr. Parsons, one who brought me in.

[559] He was managing Mayhem at the time.

[560] and um i love ryan yeah ryan's a good dude super good guy man i loved ryan and uh and i was you know i'd fiddle with it i just you know throw my hands a little bit like yeah i'm gonna do this one day you know i just kind of playing around and playing around with it and so i love boxing i love watching all that stuff i was like man you know maybe i'll do this stuff one day but when i watch those guys go through the ultimate fighter being here in vegas being in vegas and in the house i was like yeah no way i'm not doing that shit never not doing it even back then you were thinking i'm just gonna wrestle yeah because at that time i was living at the olympic training center i was training for the olympics right i was like yeah i'm gonna do this shit no it's not possible what was it the flip the switch rachat really rachat um the same time i think 2011 i still at the olympic training Center.

[561] I had gone back and just training.

[562] And I was friends with King Mo. I've known King Moe ever since I was in high school.

[563] And funny thing is like, man, like we were so connected because we were from similar, we're walking similar paths.

[564] King Mo is from like African descent.

[565] So am I. And he wrestled in Texas.

[566] And so was I in high school.

[567] And then he's a division two guy.

[568] I went in Division 2.

[569] He was a national champ.

[570] I was a national champ.

[571] And, you know, walking the similar path.

[572] So I just felt connected to King Moe.

[573] So I would always talk to him.

[574] I looked up to those guys.

[575] King Moe and D .C. And they were like, you know, the black dudes that you look up to because they won a lot of black wrestlers.

[576] So they was the dudes that we looked up to.

[577] It was like, yeah, man, King Moe.

[578] So he had been doing MMA.

[579] I think at that time he was the strike force champion.

[580] And so King Moe calls me and my friend Jake Fisher, who was a world team member at the times like hey you guys want to come down to denver and train with us you know me i'm gonna train that night of course i'm gonna go yeah training with king mo my boy i get to see him you know so we go down this is the first time i've ever been starstruck in my life and this is now i've been watching mbma now you know done the show and all these things so we get down there and we're in a dress room i'm you know i'm just thinking king mo's come in and we're gonna work out with them there's meed fisher t c danzler and another kid named beau and we're in the dressing room we're changing and it was joe warren's gym we're changing shout out to joe warren man badass dude it's a funny dude yeah and we're we're changing and all of a sudden you know i'm changing i look back we're shot evans walks in the fucking dressing room at i never been starstruck in my life.

[581] I was just like, oh, shit, that's Rashad Evans.

[582] Oh, shit.

[583] So, of course, you know, I had to play cool.

[584] I can't even be that dude, you know.

[585] I ain't no fan boy.

[586] But I'm thinking my mind, oh, shit, that's fucking Rashad Evans.

[587] I just watched this dude fight rampage.

[588] And they do the ultimate fighter and all this joint.

[589] Like, oh, shit, that's Rashad.

[590] So we get, we get back out.

[591] Now, we're training together.

[592] We're wrestling.

[593] I just can believe how, you know, good.

[594] To this day, he can fucking lie and say he took me down.

[595] He didn't get.

[596] get one takedown in that training session.

[597] I freaking took him down several times, ran him off the mat, but the one thing that I couldn't, I was impressed by how good of a wrestler he was.

[598] Then I started doing my research.

[599] I was like, oh, he actually wrestled.

[600] He was a wrestler in Michigan State.

[601] He was a two -time Jukal champion.

[602] Like, he was a wrestler.

[603] I couldn't believe how good he was.

[604] But then after that session, we sat on the mat and we just talked.

[605] And to keep in mind, My whole mind is like, shit, I'm talking to a superstar here.

[606] Right.

[607] And he was at the top of the game.

[608] And I couldn't believe, like, we talked like we were brothers.

[609] Like, we were homies.

[610] We've been best friends for a long time.

[611] He's a great guy.

[612] Man, I mean, I couldn't.

[613] He floored me. And I was just like, shit.

[614] That's Rashad Evans.

[615] Gave me his number after.

[616] Like, gave me his numbers.

[617] Like, hey, they hit me up.

[618] What you're doing?

[619] What you're going to do tonight?

[620] I was like, oh, we got to drive back to color.

[621] rings he's like oh okay well i'll be back in denver i'm gonna hit you up you know talk like we were boys and of course i'm like it's like you're holding the piece of paper his number on i'm like oh shit that's what shot's number so i go home it's like do i wait two days to text him do i do i what do i do you like a chick oh wait what do i do i oh shit that's what's shot's number it's just sitting on my desk i walk by it i look at it Oh, man, so he, a week goes by and he freaking texted me. He just texted me out of the blue.

[622] Like, yo, what up, man?

[623] Like, what's up?

[624] I'm going to be in Denver this next, you know, next month or something like that.

[625] Why don't you come through a train with me?

[626] It's like, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

[627] So I went and trained with him again, just, you know, hung out for a little bit.

[628] And then he started night, it became regular.

[629] You would text me regularly.

[630] like hey i got a fight coming up about to fight phil davis i'm gonna bring you down to florida with me to train with me for two weeks fuck you go fly me to florida to train with you yeah yeah of course i'm down so now i became like part of his training arsenal and every time that's the thing we're shy every time he would make fun of you like you know like brothers do he'll poke fun of you you know you want to do him man you know you want to do this you should be doing this shit why you over there busing your button wrestling like you would train all through these whole wrist Leslie camp go all the way to Russia wrestle a tournament if you won the tournament you got $1 ,500 bucks and this guys I would help these guys train and these guys go out and beat somebody up make $75 ,000 like what the fuck what's sport am I in right now what's going on and so he kept poking at me like man you know you want to do this you know you want to do that so he slowly started to shift my motivation and my focus towards MMA instead of winning that Olympic goal I was dealing with a lot of different injuries here and there, tore up my knees, threw on my back, and I just, I started to feel like my chance of winning Olympic goals started to diminish more and more and more, and then I started falling in love with this sport here and there.

[631] And then I talked with him, I talked with King Moe, and King Moe was just like, man, don't straddle the fence, man, because I straddled the fence and look what happened, because King Moe was supposed to be the Olympian.

[632] And he was like, I straddled the fence and look, I lost the trials and, no, I mean, MMA so if you're going to do that just do that and Rosh I was like why don't you come down to Florida I just freaking I was like man that's it I'm done wow yeah now when we were talking about Kane Velasquez earlier and Kane has had a series of catastrophic injuries knee injuries knee surgeries shoulder surgeries back surgery when you think about your style that's kind of similar to his in a lot of ways in that you rely on pressure volume mental toughness and wrestling all those things you're you're you're constantly attacking you're constantly bombarding your opponent with with technique and with pressure when you see that you've gone through all these surgeries and you see like what happens with a guy like cane where his body just can't compete with his mental toughness anymore it's almost like his his mind is too strong for his body and his body just breaks yeah i mean it's does it fuck with you at all it's A little bit because it's like, man, you got to switch up because you want to have longevity.

[633] Yes.

[634] I've had seven surgeries now.

[635] So what's, what have you done?

[636] I've had five knee surgeries.

[637] Five fucking knee surgeries.

[638] Five knee surgeries.

[639] I've had four meniscus on each.

[640] Four.

[641] Four, two on the left, two on a right.

[642] And then I've also had a micro fracture, which is probably the, one of the most, the biggest serious surgeries that I've had on my right knee.

[643] Now, is that one of those ones where they try to regrow cartilage?

[644] Yeah, it's, I guess the process is they, they make breaks, they make fractures in the condo to hopefully, I guess, scar up, you know, generate a blood supply, scar up, so where it creates a little cushion.

[645] But fucking, it didn't work.

[646] I feel like it set me back.

[647] Really?

[648] But, yeah, man, big time.

[649] Have you ever heard of Dr. Neil Reardon and what they're doing down in Panama with stem cells?

[650] No, I mean, no, I've never heard of them.

[651] I've heard of stem cells, and I've actually had a round of stem cells.

[652] What they're doing down in Panama?

[653] Do you know T .J. Dilshaw?

[654] Yeah, I know T. Talk to him about it, man. Because he has some phenomenal.

[655] I actually sent my mom down there.

[656] Really?

[657] Yeah, they were trying to give my mom a knee replacement surgery.

[658] I was like, hold on, mom.

[659] Yeah.

[660] He's like, let's see what we can do.

[661] So I sent her down there, the Panama.

[662] They can do, his office is in Dallas.

[663] Yeah.

[664] And I had him on with Mel Gibson.

[665] Mel Gibson's dad, when he sent him down there was 92, and he was in.

[666] in a wheelchair.

[667] Now he's 100, and he's walking around.

[668] And according to Mel, I didn't ask, but according to Mel, still getting hard -ons.

[669] I didn't ask.

[670] I didn't ask.

[671] I don't think that goes away, y 'allie?

[672] But he said, I mean, Mel's gone down himself.

[673] And, man, I would go down if I had anything really wrong with me, too.

[674] I mean, I've gotten a lot of stem cells done here in the States.

[675] Yeah.

[676] But they can do some shit down there in Panama.

[677] They just cannot do here in terms of regulations and shit and they're they're doing phenomenal work with uh regrowing cartilage and meniscus and all kinds of shit yeah i mean especially like right now while you're in recovery phase anyway yeah you really should get in contact with them yeah for sure i'm gonna i'm definitely give that a try because they've they've helped tj quite a bit i know other fighters have gone down there as well yeah that's something that definitely i'm gonna look into yeah because you you know i mean when you're dealing with bone on bone like i'm sure you probably are that i've been on for a long long time it's fucking hard to train a long time well that's why it's so impressive your cardio because you're you can't run so you do are you doing plios as well yeah i mean part of what like like i said my strength conditioning coach uh cori we do a good job of adjusting to what i can't do and you know obviously back squats are not the biggest the best thing for me to be doing so we modify we do different types of squats and things like that and we still get pretty good results do you do any swimming Yeah, I play in the water a lot too I do a lot of footwalk stuff in the water Because it takes a lot of pressure off I was forced I can't I mean I'm not going to go in here and do backstrokes And all this crazy swimming techniques But you know I get in there to get that workout Do you do sprints in the pool or anything like that?

[678] Yes, big into those I do sprints You said your shoulders are fucking with you too Shoulders are I mean I'm a wrestler You know shoulders are always going to be banged up You know but I haven't I've been fortunate no surgeries there yet but um yeah knees i've had surgeries five and then i i tore this my index finger that tendon right there i tore that my junior year in uh college and i tore that i had surgery with that to replace that repair that and then now this freaking whole apparatus that i have going on in my lower abdomen mesh did that what they do bro um they did it did a little bit i told them Because the dog didn't want to work with mesh Samuel because he said that, you know, there's good and bad results with the match.

[679] So, you know, I got this freaking drain coming out of me right now.

[680] Oh, shit.

[681] Look at that.

[682] Oh, my goodness.

[683] Look at that.

[684] It's just pus and stuff?

[685] It was blood.

[686] Like, it was basically the blood.

[687] It's like a vacuum, I think it's what they call it.

[688] It's draining blood.

[689] But now it's coming down.

[690] It's not that much blood coming out of there.

[691] How long ago was that?

[692] Tuesday, I got that.

[693] Wow.

[694] So, yeah, I've been out to walk around and maneuver with this thing.

[695] Jesus.

[696] And the worst thing is the burning, because it's obviously sticking out of a hole.

[697] There's a hole in me. So the burning sensation around it, the third day, I told the physical therapist there, I was like, yo, I almost cut the shit off of the scissors.

[698] Because I'm not big into the painkillers.

[699] Right, right.

[700] You know, so I'll take it maybe the day after.

[701] I'll take it, you know, maybe.

[702] But they just don't do much for me. It doesn't kill the pain.

[703] Right.

[704] I'm like, why do they call these painkillers?

[705] It doesn't kill the pain.

[706] It just makes me a little loopy It makes me stupid as fuck I don't fuck with them either Yeah I saw I just have a bag of them And I just I don't do anything with it What about CBD do you do?

[707] I do man shout out to I'm sponsored by Love Hemp Beautiful Love Hemp is a UK company Very good company Yeah amazing They're doing some really really big things And I'm big into like the oil I have and I have the rub And I both of them are great Yeah I use those a lot So that's in my repertoire Yeah that's huge for anybody That's experiencing any kind of inflammation plus for general anxiety and overall health CBD is fantastic yeah so no psychoactive effects too you know yeah because that's that's the that's the that's the freaking stigma behind it's like oh it's marijuana it's weed yeah we're talking about marijuana before the podcast yeah yeah I smoke and it's like don't do it I'm like I'm coming on Joe Roy should I smoke no no champ no we watch you watch you lucid here don't want you going into the hole the problem is like when people don't get high and then they get high in a pressure situation like this you're just like yeah go into that tunnel you're like yikes oh my god yeah it's um i've tried i've smoked four times in my life yeah how did that go uh not good i mean the first time was my 24th birthday 24th birthday uh i smoked with uh who was it a couple of friends of mine at the olympic train dinner and it didn't do anything because i don't know how to hit the blind i don't know right i didn't inhale yeah so it's like man this stuff don't affect me dog i don't do this so so so i didn't say screw that and you want to do it again and then the next time was the year after with jason miller mayhem miller oh mayhem knows how to hit that week yeah i was we were doing it was doing an ultimate fighter we were doing that and um one thing we do at night is a lot of people people expect like man when he's not on is a man super cool guy he's a very good dude i mean there's always like kind of like being around mike tyson there's always like edge yeah there's always that edge to where you're in the room with the with the freaking lion like yeah he's been the coolest lion ever but you still know it's a fucking lion right you know and mayhams like that you're in the room everything's cool but he still has he can snap at any moment so we're sitting on the balcony at night and we'll just talk and he would just talk about these.

[708] The weird thing about Mayhem is he always watched, like, he watched nothing but like smart shit, like the news, like the Colbert report, like things like that.

[709] You know, he wouldn't watch.

[710] I would think he'd watch like 90210 or or freaking shows like that.

[711] Like, no, man. He, you know, he was very intelligent guy.

[712] He would just sit there and talk at night.

[713] And he gave me the nickname that night too.

[714] And freaking he's like bro, your first name starts with the K. Your last name is Ushman Usman.

[715] I'm gonna freaking call you Cush.

[716] I'm calling you Cush.

[717] Freaking, the next day on set everyone calls me Cush.

[718] To this day people call me Cush.

[719] You're like, I'm the Nigerian nightmare.

[720] And at that time it wasn't born yet.

[721] The name wasn't there because I didn't start fighting yet.

[722] So I I've had nicknames all throughout my life, my career, which is that whole Ben Astro and shit that he's trying to run with.

[723] What is he calling you, Marty from Nebraska?

[724] Why is he calling you Marty from Nebraska?

[725] He calls him Marty from Nebraska.

[726] See, this is the thing is, when I started wrestling, I started in high school.

[727] My coach was this big Marine dude, you know, he was in shape, bus cut, white dude.

[728] And he comes up to me. I'm 5 foot 2, 100 pounds, soaking wet.

[729] And he's like, yo, he's like, what's your name, kid?

[730] I tell him, buddy, I don't even think he paid attention and he's like hey well you tried wrestling i never heard it wrestling all i've heard is w w i'm like no man i ain't trying to get hit with chairs and stuff i ain't trying to do that shit so he barked kind of looks at me he's like he's like ah okay yeah all right we'll give it a shot and our assistant wrestling coach was the assistant football coach so they kind of would poke at me yeah you come try wrestling come try wrestling all through the football season then the next year i freaking i nutted up up and i freaking just signed up for wrestling i went in and um he looks at he's reading the roll sheet calling names and he goes come kamarud who the who the who's this kid who fuck is this kid and i'm like that's me coach he's like that's your name i'm like yeah he's like i'm not saying that because my whole full name is kamarudian kamarudin kamarudin kamarudin and he's like Like, I'm not going to say that.

[731] Like, Camardian, Camar, Mark, I'm going to call you Marty.

[732] And I'm just like, yeah, sure, coach.

[733] I'm fucking five foot three hundred pounds.

[734] I'm just scared of this guy.

[735] And I'm like, sure.

[736] I mean, you're a kid.

[737] You don't care.

[738] You're going to have nicknames all growing up.

[739] So.

[740] Why does the UFC shorten your name?

[741] To Camar.

[742] No, that's what my parents call me. It's Camaro.

[743] Yeah, my parents call me Camaro.

[744] But the full, it's like, my name's Joseph.

[745] My parents call me Joe.

[746] Joe, exactly.

[747] Yeah, so that, you know, so that it's, it's Kamaru.

[748] That's what my parents were always calling me. That's what I call myself, you know, but my full name is, it's like Joseph is a, you know, it's Kamarru Dean.

[749] So, um, he's like, I'm gonna call you Marty.

[750] So fucking out, all right.

[751] Now the whole team is calling me Marty.

[752] And, you know, so.

[753] White people are so fucked up.

[754] No, but, man, I love.

[755] Change people's names.

[756] I love that coach, man. And it essentially changed my life.

[757] It changed the course of my life.

[758] That is such a funny thing, though, to do.

[759] I'm going to call you Marty.

[760] That's not even close.

[761] That starts with a totally different letter.

[762] I know, but it seemed to work.

[763] It works so well through where, um, this is the thing about nicknames.

[764] If you're fucking, if you're a guy that's just a regular average guy and you suck, your name dies with you.

[765] You move on.

[766] No one cares.

[767] Right.

[768] You know, but if you're doing something incredible, something spectacular, that name lives on.

[769] Right.

[770] So now Marty went from just now everyone on the team called me Marty to where people knew about the wrestling around the wrestling circuit, you know, in high school are calling me Marty.

[771] Oh, that Marty guy.

[772] That kid's good.

[773] And then now college coaches are calling like, oh, I want to recruit this kid, you know, this Camarroian kid.

[774] And he's like, oh, Marty?

[775] So now they, oh, know me as Marty.

[776] So now I go to college and the coach is calling me Marty.

[777] And now the college team is calling me Marty.

[778] Now here's the situation with this whole Ben asking thing is like I just mentioned if I was just a regular guy who sucked no one cares no one knows your name you die out right but because I made waves like I was that marty kid that wrestled at Nebraska that's beating the shit out of everyone division one two three NAA juco it doesn't matter Ben knows of me so you know he's trying to cling on to something to bring it back like oh this is funny I'm trying to hide from it no I really was Marty from Nebraska.

[779] I really was whooping everyone's ass while I was Marty from Nebraska.

[780] I really was that guy.

[781] So, you know, for him to bring it out, I thought he was silly, but you know these fans, fans want to, because Ben is a representative of the trolls.

[782] Like, most of the trolls look like Ben Asker.

[783] If I can give you any, that's hilarious.

[784] That is hilarious.

[785] If I can give you any advice, please don't pay attention.

[786] I don't give any shit.

[787] Don't pay attention to comments.

[788] You know that glass jar once you smash that thing just don't even put anything in there anymore man don't do nothing I've heard you say that so many times like I um when I started paying attention to the show I started watching the show and I watched the one you did with Tyrant when Tyrant was up here and you're so right like some because that's one thing that I always felt like so unfair about Tyrant is a lot of people just gave him shit because and I think it started because he didn't take that belt they didn't de -thrown George St. Pierre.

[789] So I think a lot of it stemmed from that.

[790] Oh, I don't know about that, man. I know it doesn't.

[791] The way he stopped Robbie Lawler, that didn't give people...

[792] I understand, but George St. Pierre is still looping around as the Wellesville Bay champion.

[793] But sort of not, because he retired.

[794] He said, I'm going to step away.

[795] Yeah, but he stepped away.

[796] Yes, I understand.

[797] For you being, obviously, you know so much about the sport, you're being in the sport for so long.

[798] Yes, but for these fickle fans that don't know shit.

[799] That's why you can't listen to him.

[800] All they know is George St. Pierre.

[801] Reverseant Pierre was a champion, and he never lost his belt.

[802] Yeah.

[803] So I felt like Tyrant never got his fair share necessarily.

[804] I feel like the same.

[805] Because they're like, oh, he never took the belt from George.

[806] I don't think it was the Wonderboy fights.

[807] I think the Wonderboy fights were so fucking hard.

[808] Yeah, but he had to fight Wonderboy that way.

[809] That is the way you fight that guy.

[810] Yes.

[811] You know, unless, you know, someone like me comes in and doesn't.

[812] What would you do?

[813] What would you do?

[814] I don't know.

[815] I just do me. Because he's still in the mix.

[816] I would just do me. I would eventually get a hold of him.

[817] I will eventually break him and eventually make it look easy.

[818] And then people are going to just complain.

[819] So, you know, it is what it is.

[820] Yeah.

[821] The problem with him is he's so difficult to get close to.

[822] He's a different guy because his style is so different.

[823] He'll stand totally sideways on you.

[824] His hands will be down and he can wrestle.

[825] I mean, in terms of take down defense.

[826] He's got good take down defense.

[827] And his strikes come from fucking weird angles, man. He moves like a snake.

[828] Like he bends at the waist, then pops forward.

[829] Yeah.

[830] You ever watch him kickbox?

[831] Yeah, and that freaking, well, but I saw that, you know, I knew it was a problem when he threw that one kick that came over the fucking shoulder and smacked the camera.

[832] Question mark kick.

[833] Yeah.

[834] It was weird.

[835] He doesn't have the front leg.

[836] He's very good with it.

[837] He just, you don't even know what's going on.

[838] He thinks maybe he's going to kick you in the body.

[839] Yeah.

[840] Loops around.

[841] Comes over the top and, like, smacks you in the fed. No, he's very talented.

[842] Like, I like Wonderboy a lot.

[843] you know but like i just felt like you know i saw that show with tyrant and you said the exact same thing to him and that's what i said too and that's what i was thinking too but it's easier send than none because partially what i got into this and why i appreciate the platform that i have right now is the fact that you can affect so many people at such a rapid amount of time because there's been instance to where i don't know if you ever remember that movie uh what women want and they watched mel gipson i didn't watch it and and basically he could hear women's thoughts and things like that and then there was a there was a girl in the office girl in the movie who she was planning to kill herself because no one really paid attention to her she's like no one would care and she just walked around with books i applied for a job everyone blew me off no one cares i'm gonna kill myself this day so she was planning to kill herself and he heard her because he could hear what women think he heard her thoughts But initially didn't really pay attention to it until later on he realized she was missing from the office.

[844] And then he, like, ran to go find her and essentially saved her life.

[845] But my thing is, and that's a quote that I live by, with great power comes great responsibility.

[846] Like, what if there's someone that's dealing with something at a certain time?

[847] And yes, I didn't ask to be put in that position.

[848] But they, you know, they just decided, oh, I'm just going to reach out, I send a message before I kill myself this day.

[849] no one's going to respond no one's going to care and I happen to read that message and talk that kid off the ledge and that kid becomes fucking you know wins the Nobel Peace Prize later on in life like that's a responsibility that I have that I didn't I didn't put that on myself but that I have with the the gift that I've been blessed with to touch so many people and so how am I going to know that if I never read any of my messages or comments or things like that yes of course I you know the negative ones, yeah, Blum, blow it off, but how do I know it's negative if I don't read it?

[850] You know, so that's what I'm saying it's easier said than done.

[851] It's like, I read this.

[852] Now what I do is I read it if I even feel like it's getting negative.

[853] Dilly, Dilly.

[854] I can't read them all because after that fight, fucking I got thousands.

[855] I'm sure.

[856] So, you know, I can't read them all, but every now and again when I'm bored enough and I have time, like I'll read some of it because sometimes it is good, good things.

[857] But, you know, that's very easy.

[858] No. You know, I shit you know, I shit you not Yesterday I posted a picture There was one guy That responded to maybe 40 to 50 people All negative shit Oh yeah How about you were gonna die Give out his Instagram hand You were gonna die in this You know what I just I just blocked him I'm just like oh man You're gonna knock the fuck out You're gonna do this I'm just like oh my God Like, bro, really?

[859] You literally took the time out of your day to sit here today.

[860] Just knocked on the door, and he opened the door and saw your face.

[861] Imagine?

[862] Oh, my God.

[863] I wish we could do that.

[864] I wish we could do that.

[865] And he answers.

[866] Guess who answers the door is Ben Ascrant.

[867] He looks like Ben.

[868] Just fucking belly out like this.

[869] He's never traded a day in his life.

[870] What did you think of the Robbie Lawler fight with Ben?

[871] Oh, man. Like, I mean, come on.

[872] They got to run that back.

[873] I was thinking when it was over that Herb Dean made a mistake, but the more I watched it, the more I think he didn't.

[874] I think what happened was, I think Robbie went out, I think his arm dropped, and I think when Herb came over, this is what Ben says, too, that he loosened up the choke a little bit, and Robbie came back to it, and Robbie probably doesn't even know, because Robbie's such a fucking savage.

[875] She probably didn't even know he went out.

[876] Yeah, but, okay, you know, this is the argument, and this is why it has to be ran back.

[877] Yeah, it's a good argument to run it back.

[878] You know, this is an argument because First of all, when Robbie ran that truck through Ben's face, like, he was out.

[879] It's a funny way of putting it.

[880] He was out and woke up.

[881] He recovered.

[882] I mean, he got hit with some fucking bombs, but...

[883] We're freaking wrestlers.

[884] The one thing about wrestlers at the elite level is you can be out of it, but your body will naturally go through certain motions, grab a leg, pull up the signal, do that.

[885] Do you think he was out cold when Robbie was bombing on him?

[886] Robbie ran a Mac truck through his face Like that's under Let's watch it Like pull that fight up Truck through his face Like I feel like Robbie knocked him out Walk him up Knocked him out Like Robbie was just Savage mode And that's the one thing about And knowing Robbie now Because I train with him Is Robbie's such a different guy Like he's so Nonchalant Well he The way he handled the loss was so classy.

[887] But that's Robbie, man. He's so classy.

[888] And the explanation, this is the thing what the explanation is.

[889] You can argue the fight should have been stopped when Robbie was, you know, bombing on him.

[890] You can argue that.

[891] Yeah.

[892] For sure.

[893] But at the same time, where Robbie explains it is Robbie has so much experience.

[894] And it was a bulldog.

[895] It's like Big Brother choke.

[896] So, you know, it could have not been doing anything.

[897] But Robbie explained it as, I put my hand down because this wasn't doing shit to relax, you know, because I don't want to panic.

[898] Robbie has that much experience, he should know what to do.

[899] Maybe that's what he was doing.

[900] But the way he put his arm down, it looked like it was out.

[901] Yeah.

[902] But then when Herb Dean came to check on him, while he was giving the thumbs up, Herb Dean didn't really give him a chance to put the thumbs up and stops the fight right then and there.

[903] But as far as, oh, I loosen the choke.

[904] That's why he came to.

[905] No, you don't loosen the choke until the ref pulls you off of him or you pop his head off.

[906] He said it lightened up when Herb came over because he thought.

[907] thought that Herb was going to stop the fight because he felt Robbie go limp.

[908] You don't lighten up because you think someone's going to stop a fight.

[909] I see your point.

[910] You don't lighten up because you think you squeeze harder because you want to make him stop the fight.

[911] I see a point and also there is a difference between squeezing someone out and beating on them when the referee's coming.

[912] If the referee comes and you stop punching because the guy's out, that's one thing.

[913] That's one thing.

[914] But you don't, you have them in a bolt.

[915] You're here in survival mode.

[916] You can't like really, you're in survival mode.

[917] But Bulldog chokes are legit, man. I mean, they really do work.

[918] Yeah, I'm not going to, you know, listen, I'm not going to say.

[919] That's how Matt Militich lost the title.

[920] Yeah, I'm not going to say.

[921] Carlos Newton caught him in a bulldog choke.

[922] Remember that?

[923] Yeah, I'm not going to say that.

[924] I'm not going to, you know, he could have been out.

[925] He could have not been out.

[926] But the only way to put that all to rest is to run it back.

[927] But what kind of sucks is when you're like, no, I pass.

[928] I mean, I might pass.

[929] What?

[930] What?

[931] Come on, bro.

[932] Relax.

[933] He said he didn't want to fight him in the first place.

[934] Well, no, shit.

[935] Well, Robbie looks sensational.

[936] Robbie looked like a fucking savage.

[937] Here we go.

[938] We're going to watch it right now.

[939] Here we go.

[940] We're going to watch this shit.

[941] Ben, look at the body on the body.

[942] You laughing?

[943] Are you trying to make me laugh here?

[944] Fucking stud.

[945] Yeah.

[946] That's the ideal combat sports body.

[947] Look at this.

[948] But it is amazing that he's able to get a hold of Robbie.

[949] I was stunned.

[950] No, I knew he was going to get a hold of Robbie.

[951] I thought, but right away.

[952] Look at this, savage.

[953] That was crazy.

[954] Savage moot, boom.

[955] Now, eat that, eat that.

[956] These are big shots.

[957] Go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep.

[958] I'm out.

[959] I see, I think he's still there, man. I don't think there's no evidence that he's out.

[960] Really?

[961] You don't see the hands.

[962] No, no, I don't think so.

[963] I think he's eating his shot and then he's got the clinch.

[964] I don't think he was ever out.

[965] No, there were certain moments he was, he was.

[966] Well, he definitely ate some big shots, but I don't think there's any evidence at all that indicates to me that he was out.

[967] This is the thing, like, Ben is tough as shit, though.

[968] Like, I give credit with credit.

[969] Fuck, yeah, yeah, man. He's tough as hell, man. He's tough as hell.

[970] And right now, he's just drunk driving.

[971] Right now, he's drunk driving.

[972] He's a won't even leg.

[973] Drunk driving is a funny way to put it.

[974] Bro, he's drunk driving right now.

[975] Look at this.

[976] Drunk driving.

[977] But now Robbie breaks free.

[978] See, I forget the actual scramble that led to the Bulldog choke.

[979] Yeah, it happens from when Robbie tries to get up because he does get the takedown.

[980] Oh, look, he's drunk driving.

[981] Oh, my God.

[982] Oh, man, a lot of blood.

[983] You caught him in the nasty.

[984] left hand there.

[985] Yeah, like, Rob, he's just looking for, looking for a bomb.

[986] And Ben is just moving forward like a zombie.

[987] But he still grabs a hold of him.

[988] It's interesting.

[989] Interesting that he was able to grab a hold of him because I would have thought that Robbie would have avoided that shit at all costs.

[990] Yeah, but that's why he's able to grab a hold of someone.

[991] When someone is so, you know, worried about you grabbing them and it kind of shuts them down a little bit.

[992] Good knees of the body there by Robbie?

[993] Yeah.

[994] That's another thing you did in the tyrant fight, fucking body shots good lord i was trying to take that people by home you hit him with so many right hands of the body so here we see ben still got the clinch yeah he's doing a good job here he's trying to he's trying to come to it he's trying to you know recover doing a good job keeping it close now you can't get really get hit with big shots you know and he does get the take down at some point yeah do not remember how it happened or what was here it is here it is he reaches down So he's got him in the clinch here.

[995] He's got the underhook on the left side.

[996] And so, okay, he grabs the leg.

[997] This is interesting.

[998] I don't remember this.

[999] All I remember is the opening exchange and then the final exchange.

[1000] Yeah, two on one.

[1001] Right now he's trying to go two on one.

[1002] Yes, good job.

[1003] So he's got the single.

[1004] Single, Robbie doing a good job.

[1005] Now he's got the hands class together.

[1006] It's amazing to me how good of a wrestle he is.

[1007] I'm going to be honest with you.

[1008] But it's just funky.

[1009] because it's like not really muscles there it's just like gumpy but you know it's not going anywhere but it's tricky yeah very tricky yeah very very sneaky so now he's got him down and now Robbie's on his back he's in yeah sort of inside control okay so now he's got an arm yeah typical Robbie see Robbie's just chilling boom he circles out he's got the headlock okay now he's get the headlock and now watch that right on look at this position yeah but see this position Robbie puts it down yeah it's moving It's moving.

[1010] Yeah.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] Nope.

[1013] Yep.

[1014] See, that's what's tricky about that.

[1015] See, that's what's tricky about that.

[1016] I changed my mind again.

[1017] I don't think he was out.

[1018] No, see, because the first...

[1019] Back it up to just to the arm going limp.

[1020] Because the thing about the arm going limp is the way it went limp looked.

[1021] It really looked like he was out.

[1022] Okay, but this is what I'm saying right here is initially in the situation, wait, wait till he turns.

[1023] Wait till he turns.

[1024] Went right, right, wait to pull his arms out.

[1025] Boom, right here.

[1026] See, this is uncomfortable.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] This is very uncomfortable.

[1029] Like, you're spread out here and the guy's choking on your neck.

[1030] You got to bring one down to relieve pressure.

[1031] Either that one down or take this one inside.

[1032] Yeah.

[1033] So, Robbie did the right thing or the arm fell down whether he was out.

[1034] So, man, it's a tough go, man. One more time.

[1035] Let me see that arm dropped.

[1036] Just back it up.

[1037] Just a little bit.

[1038] Here it goes.

[1039] See, the way it drops.

[1040] See, like, nobody moved.

[1041] It moved immediately.

[1042] Shut.

[1043] It's so hard to know.

[1044] Move.

[1045] Yeah, he might have just been dealing with the choke.

[1046] Yep, nope.

[1047] And it's typical Robbie, man. Because Robbie says, man, yeah, experience.

[1048] He said, man, I knew that.

[1049] That was uncomfortable.

[1050] So I just put my arm down, chilling.

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] And that's it, man. Now I'm on your side.

[1053] Fuck.

[1054] Bro, like, there's only one, you have to run that back.

[1055] I would say so.

[1056] But how much can the UFC tell him what to do?

[1057] Like, what could the UFC?

[1058] The UFC said to Ben Ascran, listen, this fight has to happen again.

[1059] that's you like that's the sport we're in yeah UFC's the judge the jury and if they want the execution what did it Ben what did uh Dana White say after the fight he said he wanted Ben to fight him again right yeah Dana said we're gonna run that back and Robes and Ben's like not passed man I don't know Robbie's like yeah we got to do it again well I know Robbie was angling for a fight with Darren Till but after Mazvedal starched here until, which was nasty, man. Nasty, man. People sleep on Mazzvedel.

[1060] They do.

[1061] I do not know why.

[1062] I don't understand it.

[1063] Go back and watch those backyard fights.

[1064] That guy's been going out of a long time.

[1065] Hey, man, and he, man, that's, too, both backyard fights, the one that he just had again this weekend.

[1066] Yeah, I know.

[1067] That was crazy.

[1068] What was that about?

[1069] It's about, um, you know, it's like, you can't just talk people.

[1070] Like nowadays, it's this error.

[1071] You could just say whatever.

[1072] You feel like you can say what you want.

[1073] because he's social media.

[1074] You want to get fans on your side and this and that.

[1075] And he just happened to say it to the wrong guy at the wrong time.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] Like that's the situation.

[1078] And you did it backstage too.

[1079] Massadol don't give him fuck.

[1080] No, I literally.

[1081] You know, mutual, I think it's mutual respect with me in Massadol.

[1082] Like, I respect him, you know.

[1083] I mean, if we have to fight, we have to fight one day.

[1084] But, you know, like, we feel the same when it's like, if you're going to talk shit online, when I see you keep the same energy.

[1085] Like when I saw Ben Astroent backstage, the only thing that stopped me from pushing his head through that wall back there was the fact that I almost blacked out when I was walking towards him.

[1086] Then I realized Dana was right behind me. So you were angry?

[1087] It wasn't that I was angry.

[1088] It was the fact that, bro, like, if you're, you came at me online like you had a problem with me. Like you started talking mad shit to me. Like you had a problem, like saying things, putting up memes and all this.

[1089] To me, that means, like, you have a problem with me. I don't know what I did to you, but you got a problem with me. So when I see you now, like, I want you to still have that same energy.

[1090] Don't just act like we're cool.

[1091] Like, what's up, bro?

[1092] Yo, you want to hug it out?

[1093] Don't act like that.

[1094] Act like you still have the problem.

[1095] Same problem.

[1096] Well, you think he's just trying to market.

[1097] I mean, Ben never has, like, an anger attitude towards anybody.

[1098] But that's what I'm saying?

[1099] That's the thing, like, people are kind of letting them off with certain things.

[1100] Now, what happens if Massvedal would have starts him like that?

[1101] backstage because he did talk shit oh yeah yeah what happened if that was him masvedal starts like that what happens yeah you know so that that's my thing is like when I saw him backstage I almost wanted to push his head through the wall you know but and I realized Dan is behind me Brian's behind what happens to Mazvedal now in in England because they don't like that shit over there I don't know but I think he got away free he's got free really I think I haven't heard anything and everything's fine isn't he back already That's hilarious, but that's the case Because that's assault Yeah, but I mean, I guess you could say it's a broad It's hard to say assault When you're dealing with UFC fighters Right, right It's almost like he played basketball Off the Court Absolutely, you know It's hard to say it's a tricky It's a tricky situation Right But he struck him out in the parking lot Yeah After the baseball game What?

[1102] But I think Dana Didn't Dana put out a statement Saying that that can't happen anymore We gotta do it better Something like that better John They really should do a better job of having security around to separate guys.

[1103] They didn't let my fight.

[1104] They didn't let me near Ben Ashran or a Colby Covenant.

[1105] Well, so there was one time, not before this fight, but before a previous fight, where you were backstage.

[1106] It was actually, was it a press conference?

[1107] It was a press conference.

[1108] And you were trying to talk to Colby, like, what's up, man?

[1109] I was talking shit.

[1110] Yeah, I was scheduled to fight Santiago Ponzi.

[1111] That's right.

[1112] And we were doing a big press conference.

[1113] and they happened to have like i didn't even know he was there because they hit they had him hidden away the whole time it wasn't until we were going to get on the bus to go to the press conference he came downstairs like we were all meeting in the lobby and i saw him and right away i told i i don't know what it is i just i just my boy i just started your blood my blood just started boiling i told reed i was like read man this not going to work this is not in work you yo you got moving reed was like we're getting him right now we're moving i man read but it puts him in a different car and every all these the other fighters ride together.

[1114] And this is what I mean.

[1115] He's already isolated.

[1116] That's so far.

[1117] So we get there, but we have to line up to walk out.

[1118] So he's lined up and he just happened to be in my vicinity.

[1119] And I just free, I was trying.

[1120] I was like, yeah, I'm not going to say night.

[1121] I'm not going to say nothing.

[1122] I'm not going to say anything.

[1123] I just look at him.

[1124] Yo, I see you was talking all that shit online now.

[1125] Now we in person, you can't talk.

[1126] What's up with all that shit you was talking online?

[1127] You thought you was tough.

[1128] What's up with that?

[1129] Was that tough guy now?

[1130] And he's just like, I think he was reading his lines, like, what he was going to say when he got out there on the press conference.

[1131] He was just like, and he heard me. And he's like, shit, I don't want to say nothing.

[1132] Shit, I could get my ass whip right here.

[1133] I don't want to do that.

[1134] And I could say all those thoughts was contemplating.

[1135] And Whitaker was standing next to him.

[1136] And Whitaker does one of these joint, like, look around.

[1137] Who fuck this dude talking to?

[1138] Because I had to watch the review over and over.

[1139] Whittaker looked back like he ain't talking to me And then saw Kobe's like oh he's talking to Kobe So Whitaker just kindly slid off to the side And then I'm like What's up with all that shit you was talking?

[1140] And then he's like quiet quiet And then he sees the security kind of Because then they heard me And security kind of walks up I didn't even know there was a camera back there And then security walks up And security's like, oh no no no we don't need this We don't need this.

[1141] And this was what press Kabib was about to fight This was after that Connor Kabib's bus situation Yes And so they're like Oh we don't need this this week We don't need this And now Once this security He goes He goes Stick to stick to Stick to a network television Junior Stick to this boy You're not I'm like Network television What does that mean?

[1142] Because I guess he was fighting his first fight Now on pay -per -view Oh Oh, but this is the thing is...

[1143] So you run Fox.

[1144] Yeah, but this is the thing is he had never headlined a card.

[1145] To this day, I don't think he's ever headlined a card.

[1146] Yeah, no, he had lined a card.

[1147] Did he?

[1148] Not a pay -per -view.

[1149] But when he fought Hafeld dos Andros, that was the main event, wasn't it?

[1150] No, it was a co -main event under Yowell Romero and Whitaker in Chicago.

[1151] Oh, really?

[1152] Oh, shit.

[1153] Oh, wow.

[1154] Never headlined a card.

[1155] well you might be right I don't know I'm thinking about it yeah and he's like he's like stick to network I'm like I'm fucking headlining like bro you've never done shit and so he's trying to play that angle and all this and that and I was just like yep you were right look at that Whitaker Romero too yeah he's never headlined he fought Damia on an undercar well I think he was like on the main card but no scene punk and Michael Jackson yeah yeah tremendous fight I mean, no, it's, man, I was impressed with him beating Dosanjos.

[1156] I really was.

[1157] I thought that was impressive.

[1158] In what way?

[1159] Well, because he beat Dosanos.

[1160] Yeah, because Dosanos is a fucking savage.

[1161] Yeah, like I give that, yeah, you beat RDA.

[1162] RDA is a name.

[1163] Like, that dude's tough as hell, former champion.

[1164] Yes, I give it.

[1165] But RDA won rounds.

[1166] RDA won fourth and fifth round.

[1167] RDA was taking him down.

[1168] Like, you saw that, RDA took him down.

[1169] numerous times well he didn't let me just clarify he didn't beat him as impressively as you did that's no yeah but i but i don't really care i don't really care about all that stuff like man it's my thing is over all and all joe like i've been on such a journey man my whole life i've been on such a journey i've dealt with so many things that i internalize man and i i don't really talk about so i don't really care what all these guys are doing man i've had a hard life not the hardest I'm not saying it's the hardest life but I've had a lot of things happen to me in life to where I'm just I'm at this point in life where man I don't want to deal with all the hate I don't want to deal with all these other stuff I understand it's gonna come with the sport that we do but man I got bigger shit going on in my mind that I'm worried about rather than all that little things man good for you that's like I said your attitude in so many ways is so good that you're there to compete that you're there to do your best you're not getting caught up bullshit and petty nonsense and you know you're just putting pressure on yourself to be the best you could possibly be that's that's where that's where you see real greatness yeah and i mean like and like tyrant was man there's a there's just thing to where you you get to a point where you have to you're the guy who has to provide you're the guy who has to hold up and it's not not necessarily people saying you have to do it but you you you feel that sense of responsibility you know and in my family I felt that I feel that sense of responsibility like there's one thing your family when you were growing up yeah you know like I like when I say I come from humble begins you're like being raised in Nigeria like and it wasn't like the village village where we lived in huts and we had a house but it wasn't really we didn't have plumbing you know we had to go to the well or get water we electricity was rare that's a scarce thing you know and And even when we came here, when we immigrated here, yeah, life got a lot better.

[1170] How old were you when you came here?

[1171] About eight years old.

[1172] And it was hard to adjust to the school system, you know, because kids were, kids are mean.

[1173] I had to talk with the funny accent and kids would tell you, hey, why don't you say this to the teachers?

[1174] Hey, hey, bitch, call her to this.

[1175] And I was always in the principal's office because I had no idea what that means and things like that.

[1176] So kids are cruel.

[1177] I had to, you know, I dealt with all that.

[1178] Did you know in English when you came here?

[1179] Yeah, we spoke English, but it's Pigeon English.

[1180] So we knew that, like, you know, we're colonized by the European.

[1181] So the English is the root of the words, root words are from the European.

[1182] So we knew English, but it's just our take on it.

[1183] And so how much different?

[1184] It's pretty different.

[1185] Yeah.

[1186] Yeah, it's very different.

[1187] Like, if I was talking with another Nigerian, I was speaking Pigeon English, you would pick out words, but it's a little different.

[1188] Like, can you say something in Pigeon English?

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] Like, right now, we just sit down here just talking now.

[1191] You're not supposed to sit down just to talk Just they yang each other Not be any team That sounds cool It does If like me and Israel Adasanya was talking Like it would be mad cool Oh right right right You know like we speak it to each other So going from that to You know Being essentially raised And going through school And And one thing that Man I haven't I really haven't ever shared with anybody You know Very very few people know is that my father has been incarcerated since 2009.

[1192] And this is the first time really, you know, ever talked about it.

[1193] Like, been in car, my dad was, it goes to a test as just the justice system here, man. It's so, so crooked and it's so backwards.

[1194] Yes, of course, we're fortunate.

[1195] Like, there's so many things that we're thankful for living here in this country that, you know, you can sleep at night in your house and not worry about somebody breaking in and robbing you and killing you, you know.

[1196] know for the most part and so we're thankful for all that we're thankful for the opportunities but my dad was a businessman and my dad built one of the uh a really very big business in dallas he owned like an ambulance company and you know it comes to a certain point where people just don't want you to be you're you're an immigrant and you're succeeding in a certain business where it's kind of like people don't care about it people don't want you to be you're you're an immigrant and you're succeeding in a certain business you to be there and you know it's one of those situations where my dad hired the people that he thought were the right people to do what he didn't know the job to run his company while he could tend to certain things like us like his family day -to -day different things that they cared about to where they run the company into the ground and not because my dad was the owner of the company they put it all on him even though the people that were doing You know, the things that were wrong in the company, admitted to doing the wrong things.

[1197] But what the court is saying is that, oh, because you own the company.

[1198] So ignorance is not an excuse.

[1199] So because of that, we're going to sentence you to 15 years.

[1200] So he got sentenced when he did no crime?

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] See, the thing is...

[1203] What was the business again?

[1204] My dad owned an ambulance company.

[1205] An ambulance company.

[1206] Yes.

[1207] So it was a transportation for emergency and non -emergency.

[1208] You know, and one thing that they, he hired these, like the, the paramedics, the EM, you know, AMX to run the company.

[1209] Because these are people that know the business.

[1210] So he had people that he hired from, that he acquired from a different company.

[1211] But, you know, one thing that I would say is my dad's ignorance is, is he didn't really do his research well enough on the guys that he hired.

[1212] So you hire certain guys and now these guys are running the business and these guys are like, yeah, we're going to make you, we're going to help you grow this business.

[1213] Like any businessman, fuck yeah, I heard the right people.

[1214] Yeah, help me grow the business.

[1215] So now they're helping, he's, they're doing that.

[1216] If he thinks, okay, I trust these guys.

[1217] They're taking care of the business.

[1218] And the most disappointing, heartbreaking thing about the business is my dad, they're not, they're not the one who does the billing, the billing for the business.

[1219] They contract a difference, an outside company to do the billing.

[1220] So it's not them doing it.

[1221] So they're doing the runs.

[1222] They're sending the notes to them.

[1223] This is the runs we did to you guys build the government or whoever else to pay us.

[1224] My dad's the owner.

[1225] He has people that are doing all this.

[1226] He's not there running the day to day.

[1227] So eventually they go on their investigation.

[1228] We're investigating like I think maybe like 15 patients or something like that.

[1229] I don't know the exact number.

[1230] Like 15 patients were investigating for these runs or whatever that would build these billing on them.

[1231] And so they put it all in the investigation.

[1232] And they're like, okay, after a while, they come back and they said, all right, we'll give you your stuff back.

[1233] Like, we didn't really see anything, but we'll give you your stuff back.

[1234] After they shut it down for a little while.

[1235] So damn, now I got to go back to business.

[1236] So my dad's like, oh, fucking, I'm getting out of the business.

[1237] They already killed my business for me. So now I became one of the biggest company, but you shut down for so long.

[1238] You've lost, you know, what you've worked for.

[1239] So now he's getting rid of it, getting out of it.

[1240] Then they come back later, a few years later, for the same thing, that have already said you're good here to have your stuff back they come back and say no we're we're gonna prosecute you for this so now those guys i and i've i've seen that this is obviously how the feds work now those guys that you caught the ems and these guys that were clearly did what was wrong you gave them a deal and say hey we caught you guys because those guys started their own company doing the same shit so they get caught now they're like okay we want that guy so you guys basically gave him a deal to say okay that that guy was in on it and my dad's like and i guess they offered my dad a deal a plea deal which his lawyer didn't really tell him about because he had a corner point a lawyer uh lawyer so he said no i didn't do shit wrong why would i take that deal which would have been i think maybe like five years was a deal or something like that oh my dad's like no i didn't do shit wrong why would i take five years so he goes to trial and bro we've seen we've seen all these people that have defraud the government like stock more hedge fund guys billions of dollars get bail they said no they wouldn't even grant him bail my dad's a citizen like turned over his passport and everything they said no I'm not going to give you bail we're going to hold you we're going to freeze all your accounts you can't really fight the case so you're stuck there and now your family's left with nothing we're nothing no money in the account nothing and so my dad had to deal with that and they just threw the book at him they're like you know we'll give you 15 years and this was 2009 and he's already been in for 10 yeah it's been in for 10 and one thing that really killed me was um one thing it was a part in a trial where um the lawyer were basically telling the judge like this guy's an upstanding guy no record you know he has kids look at his kids and how well they're doing his older son is in college the second one is in college the the youngest is about to be in college these kids are all scholarships student athletes great student athletes and the one thing they killed me was the prosecution was like the reason that is is because he was defrauding the government from this money that's why they're in college My dad's not paying for us to be in college We're all student athletes We earned these We worked hard Earned scholarships for us to be in college The defense didn't say that They didn't fucking say Did you have a court appointed attorney?

[1241] I think you did Yeah And bro my dad just got railroaded man And it was like And it was so heartbreaking To where You're telling a man that has raised his family Raise his kids to work hard Get to a place in life and you're telling him that the only reason he's there is because he cheated and it was just one of those things that added the chip on my shoulder.

[1242] Oh, man, there's been so many moments that added, put chips on my shoulder with everything that I, like, I've been through so much that I just internalize.

[1243] And I compete with all this energy.

[1244] And so for that, you're telling my dad that, yeah, like you're going to sit down.

[1245] And I just, and obviously, of course, I researched more and more into that because I was so heartbroken after that.

[1246] Like, my, like, you're just going to, for what?

[1247] For how much?

[1248] You're saying not even up to almost a million.

[1249] They just piled a lot of money on.

[1250] They're like, oh, this, this and that for a little over.

[1251] They're saying a little over a million total, which is nowhere near that.

[1252] You gave him 15 years when these guy, head fund guys that, that you found guilty for manipulating these markets for billions, you give them six months house arrest.

[1253] If that, and you're saying you're going to give him 15 years, and I started research, and I'm like, a lot of these judges have stakes in these prisons, and to what they do is they give a lot of time because they get paid for prisoner that's in prison.

[1254] You know that story about that guy in Pennsylvania who was a judge and he was doing that.

[1255] He was sending kids to jail.

[1256] He was extending their sentences and giving them sentences for nothing.

[1257] And it turned out he'd been getting paid by the prison to send these kids down the river.

[1258] Yeah, I heard a lot of them get like, kickbacks and different things from that and so to put people there well as you become more and more famous you could shed more and more light on this yeah man and it's when does your dad do for parole man i don't i don't even know i think soon listen this podcast alone you talking about this could very well bring someone forward that wants to help you with the appeal yeah man and my uh my dad actually wrote because when during obama administration there was that whole clemency deal when they were doing it.

[1259] My dad actually wrote a letter.

[1260] I actually have that letter.

[1261] I don't know where I put it, but he wrote a letter to him.

[1262] And it was when I read the letter, man, I can't help but cry about it because my dad, um, it's my dad cares about his family so much.

[1263] And when I go and see my dad because my dad is so proud of me and, um, and I'm so proud of him.

[1264] I mean, he raised us so well.

[1265] And, um, to go see him in there.

[1266] And I mean, it's not like he's sitting and maximum security, but for someone to tell you that you can't go home to your family at night for 10 fucking years.

[1267] You got to sleep when we told you to sleep.

[1268] You got to eat when we told you to eat for 10 years.

[1269] And when you know, I didn't do anything wrong because I chose to say, no, I didn't do anything wrong.

[1270] I'm not going to take the sentence you give me. They say, okay, fine, then.

[1271] You're going to sit in there for 15 years and there's nothing you can do about it.

[1272] And, man, it broke my heart, man. And then when I think about it something, I just holding in it.

[1273] Because I try not to cry about it, which I'm just like, screw it.

[1274] I've had different situations that happen in life.

[1275] I'm like, you know, but I ate that one up on the shoulder.

[1276] I put that chip on.

[1277] I was like, you know what?

[1278] They're going to say that the reason I'm here that was scholarship is because my dad, they're saying my dad got money, a little bit of money.

[1279] Are you serious?

[1280] What about the freaking hard work that I did to get here?

[1281] What about all the times that I sat in a freaking hot box, my bathroom upstairs with a trash bag on because I knew that I needed to get a pound off the next day in order to be able to wrestle at this JV tournament.

[1282] What about all that?

[1283] You know, that didn't make any difference.

[1284] You know, the only reason it was there is because of that.

[1285] What about all the times my brother ran, worked hard to make national team when he was playing soccer?

[1286] Or my little brother getting numerous scholarship for a Division I football everywhere.

[1287] Like, that, what?

[1288] So all that put a chip on my shoulder, Joe, to where I was like, man, I got to succeed at all costs.

[1289] I don't really care.

[1290] And where did this happen?

[1291] Where was this trial?

[1292] In Texas, in Dallas, Texas.

[1293] Not the best place to have the trial to happen.

[1294] But it happened.

[1295] And man, it put a sour taste in my mouth.

[1296] Has he filed an appeal?

[1297] Oh, man, he filed an appeal one time.

[1298] They didn't even look at it, man. It was like one of those things where it's like that judge, they put you there, you're there.

[1299] That was his domain.

[1300] They didn't even look at it.

[1301] Like, who cares?

[1302] Because I feel like you're used in the system.

[1303] You're being the UFC Walterway champion.

[1304] But I think that they treated him like that because you're an immigrant in the system, get in there.

[1305] And that's, you know, Joe, to wrap that, put that on, that's part of what this next fight symbolizes to me is the attitude that a lot of people have towards immigrants.

[1306] It's people are forgetting that Americans are immigrants.

[1307] I was just having that conversation in the last podcast.

[1308] People are forgetting that.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] The entire country's immigrants.

[1311] To where people have this attitude to where it's like, we're Americans, go back to your country, you know, go back.

[1312] This is a free country.

[1313] You're this and that.

[1314] People, like, I always heard that growing up.

[1315] I always heard that.

[1316] And I always, the more I research, I'm like, what?

[1317] What are you talking about?

[1318] First of all, this whole attitude, when you walk into a nail shop, get your hand, feet, nails done.

[1319] Who are the majority of the people that run those nail shops?

[1320] Asians.

[1321] I'm not saying all of them in the world.

[1322] in the country, but the majority of them in Asians.

[1323] But there's a lot of people that look down all of it.

[1324] Like, I'm not washing your feet.

[1325] I'm not going to do your nails.

[1326] No, those people, I take pride in that because that provides for them.

[1327] You know, they do that.

[1328] You know, but people condemn it.

[1329] That's not a job people want to do.

[1330] When you go to these hotels and certain things, who are the main people that are the maids that clean up the hotels?

[1331] A lot of them are immigrants.

[1332] We take pride in that because now we're in the country, we're in a better place where we can provide for families.

[1333] Those are jobs.

[1334] There are a lot of people, so -called Americans.

[1335] The whole Kobe Coventon whole persona are like, I'm above that.

[1336] I'm above that.

[1337] That's the persona.

[1338] But then at the same time, people now want to cry.

[1339] Oh, they're here taking our jobs.

[1340] Let's build a wall.

[1341] Let's keep them out.

[1342] They're taking our job.

[1343] No, they're providing.

[1344] They're helping this country get to its height.

[1345] The fact that you could come here and have someone do your nails, someone clean your house, someone wash your car someone do all this for you is part of what makes america so great one of the greatest nations in the world and the fact that they want to build a wall you want to keep these people out you can't come here you can't bring your culture your stuff here it just it saddens me and it upsets me as part of what this fight when it happens this fight represents for me because i feel like that's the attitude that this young man has he's entitled to i'm i should be ufc champ you're you're soy boy you know you can you don't deserve you can't hand with me boy you Boy, that's his attitude.

[1346] You can't do this.

[1347] Boy, first of all, who's your boy?

[1348] I'm a grown -ass man. Don't fucking talk to me like that.

[1349] And that's the attitude that he has.

[1350] I'm entitled to this.

[1351] I mean, I should be the champion because I am this way.

[1352] I'm American.

[1353] I'm this.

[1354] Bro, we're all American here.

[1355] And so this fight is greater than just, oh, me beating up a guy that's talking a lot of shit.

[1356] This fight means a lot to me. So when I get the chance to put my hands on that.

[1357] Like, let's just know.

[1358] It's the wrath of every immigrant that I've stepped foot in this country that I'm going to put on him.

[1359] Well, you and your family are the ideal immigrants.

[1360] Absolutely.

[1361] Overachievers.

[1362] I mean, this is what, like, first of all, what is it about Nigerians that do so well in this country?

[1363] That's one of the things.

[1364] If you look at, like, Nigerian immigrants, like successful ratios of different immigration groups, Nigerians in particular are extraordinarily successful upon immigrating to America.

[1365] Yeah, I think it's a family thing.

[1366] It's like when our families decide and we get the opportunity to move to a better place, the thing is that the whole persona is we're going to be able to sustain this forever.

[1367] So my kids are not going to just play around in sports because that's not guaranteed.

[1368] What is guaranteed is the fact that you're going to go to school and you're going to become a doctor because you're going to get a job anywhere in the world that you want.

[1369] that's why a majority of them are doctors right majority of doctors engineers because these are jobs that high demand jobs you're always going to get a job anywhere yeah and so that's all that's all we push you're going to be a doctor or you're going to be a an engineer not of them are saying you're going to be a professional athlete my parents hell no they didn't care for that like I lied to them the first couple of years that I was wrestling I didn't tell them that you know my brother is a doctor in pharmacy in Dallas.

[1370] My little brother, you know, could have gotten in the NFL.

[1371] It was a stellar football player.

[1372] Played at the University of Houston and the University of Arizona.

[1373] You know, my sister now is in college.

[1374] She's a nursing school in college.

[1375] Like, that's just what we push.

[1376] We want you to get a job that you can provide for your family forever.

[1377] Yeah, they remind me of Koreans in a lot of ways.

[1378] Absolutely.

[1379] Yeah, super hardworking and appreciate once they've gotten to a place like America where there really is no ceiling.

[1380] on the possibility you could do anything you want once you get here if you work hard absolutely and this is that's another thing that's dear to my heart is when you're in Nigeria like when you're in a situation that we were at my mom was a teacher my mom owned a store to a little convenience store and we did little jobs on the side we sold certain things on the side and on top of it raising three boys rowdy boys like And that's what we, and the school, it wasn't like, oh, there's the car, the bus is going to pick you up at 3 .7 a .m. to go to school.

[1381] No, the school was two miles away, three miles away.

[1382] You're walking.

[1383] You better get going.

[1384] Don't be late.

[1385] Because if you got, if you was late, you was going to get a whooping before our school started.

[1386] That's how it was.

[1387] And especially the education system is so high because you miss, you miss a couple of answers on the test.

[1388] You had to go out and get a switch and you were going to get whipped in school for those answers that you missed.

[1389] It would beat you in school Yeah Absolutely The teacher The teacher The teacher was First of all It's not teacher It's uncle and aunt That's your uncle and your aunt In school They knew your parents They knew your family They were gonna whip you in school If you decided to mess up And that's how it was So that's why there's a lot of these Smart Nigerians They get out And if there's no freaking job We gotta somehow make money It's so fucked up Because I don't want people to beat kids But god damn when you put kids into that kind of pressure my parents put me in Catholic school for one year and I got excellent grades and afterwards I was fucking terrible terrible man and I remember my stepfather said something to me he said your grades were only good when you were in Catholic school I was like I was fucking terrified I'm like it ain't a good move I mean it's like they were threatening me all the time they wanted to beat me and make me sit on a nail in the closet but it's this I don't I don't I would never want you to go through that but the fact that you went through that is probably one of the reasons why you're the man you are today.

[1390] That's humanity.

[1391] That's what I call humanity because as human beings when we're growing, and you hear us all the time with parents.

[1392] I want a better life for my kids.

[1393] I want a better life for my kids.

[1394] Yes, absolutely.

[1395] That's what we want.

[1396] We want to present them with endless possibilities.

[1397] But you can't forget the fact that the reason you're the champion or the outstanding person that you are today is because you went through this hard things.

[1398] All these hardships molded you.

[1399] And that's part of the situation now is like everyone's like, oh, no, I don't want these kids to play these sports.

[1400] They're too tough.

[1401] They're too rough.

[1402] You know, they could get hurt.

[1403] They can get that.

[1404] Or that kid could turn into a freaking champion.

[1405] He can get knocked on his butt 50 times.

[1406] And that one 51th time, he gets up and says, you know what?

[1407] Screw this.

[1408] I'm going to be a champion today.

[1409] There's also that you could do other things.

[1410] I think a guy like you could do anything.

[1411] Like once you've achieved what you've achieved in MMA and in wrestling, the kind of mindset that makes you push your body to the limit like that and allows you to get your, you just your body into the kind of condition that made you fight five rounds like that against tyrant.

[1412] That's an extraordinary mind.

[1413] Yeah, I'm thankful.

[1414] I'm thankful for, and this one thing that I always say is I'm thankful for every individual that I've crossed paths with.

[1415] because when I really look back in my life and I internalize a lot of things like how did I was a little I mean I was a freaking pipsqueak in Nigeria carrying this hot plate on my head to go sell you know up and down the street how did I I never imagine that I would get to the point where I would run into all these different wrestling coaches that would pour knowledge into me even if for every and this is a shout out to every coach If you ever saw me, I was drilling a move and you came over and just corrected me. Or you said, no, no, no, I'm going to do it this way.

[1416] You know, even if it's just a moment, an inch in my life, and you did.

[1417] All of that contributed to the person that I am today, to all those coaches, all those people, all my mentors that giving me advice each and everyone.

[1418] Because I never knew that I would cross paths.

[1419] Like, look how crazy in my life is.

[1420] I crossed paths with John.

[1421] First time I ever seen an M .A .5 was John Jones.

[1422] I won my belt on the same card as John Jones.

[1423] you know I stayed when I went to visit John Jones I stayed in the same room that Kobe Coventon stayed in the following year when he went to school with John Jones how fucking crazy is that that's pretty fucking crazy John's roommate was Joe Soda who also is in the UFC yeah like you know went to the University of Nebraska Kearney became a national champion same as Travelle wrestled DeLogne him Joe and Jake Ellenberger Jake Ellenberger in the UFC Joe Ellenberger in the UFC like the like look at the past that I've crossed in this life to get me to this point here I'm extremely thankful man I at the end of the day I there's nothing that I can do that that I got to give it up like this was a plan I didn't this wasn't me I didn't control they say you know what when I'm 25 and when I'm this age I'm gonna do that I'm do that do that and it all come together like that like I've been blessed I've been very very blessed to cross paths with all these guys and it's gotten me to this moment so i'm i'm so thankful well i think it's both you definitely been blessed as as all of us have but not besides just being fortunate it's you you went through the work you went through the work and you completed the process you know and that just the fact that you fought tyrant motherfucking woodley with a broken foot in a hernia and still dominated him for five rounds is crazy you don't you don't get to that without having you built your mind and your body in a very crazy way in a way through the the the the fires of hard work and discipline you forged a champion yeah i mean thank you joe like that that's it's all it all goes back to everything like This is how my mind works.

[1424] It's ever since I was little.

[1425] I'm one of those guys.

[1426] I sound silly, but I'm a one -trip kind of guy.

[1427] When I go to the grocery store and I'm bringing all that shit in the house, I'm a one -trip kind of guy.

[1428] Carried it in one trip?

[1429] I'm going to do it all.

[1430] I don't matter.

[1431] I don't care how much it is.

[1432] I'm going to try to do it in one trip.

[1433] And this is what thing that I say to myself when I'm carrying all that stuff inside.

[1434] Yeah, it hurts.

[1435] Yeah, it's heavy.

[1436] Yeah, this makes no sense.

[1437] The house is literally 50 feet from the car.

[1438] But in my mind, while I'm carrying all that heavy shit, I'm just like, oh, yeah, I'm freaking, yeah, one trip, one trip, get tough, get tough, get tough, I've been tough, I've been doing that since I was a kid, get tough, get tough, get tough, or when I'm doing sets of stuff, reps, and, you know, the coach is like, all right, four sets of 10, I'm doing 10 when I get to like 10, I can do one more, 11, let's get 11, boom, get an extra set in.

[1439] I've been putting in extra set forever, forever, to where I feel like all that has built me up to where my mind is today.

[1440] Well, your mind is there, but do you have a concern, like what we were talking about before with Kane Velasquez, that your mind might be too strong for the tissue, too strong for the ligaments, too strong for the joints?

[1441] I mean, this is what I worry about with a guy like you.

[1442] Yeah, there's not that you're not mentally strong.

[1443] Yeah.

[1444] I have no fear of that at all.

[1445] No. My concern with a guy like Kane Velasquez, there's certain people that I worry that they might do too much or push too hard.

[1446] But the fucking problem is the only way you become a Kane Velasquez or become you is to have that mindset to begin with.

[1447] Joe, how else can you see Kane Velasquez fighting?

[1448] Can't say it.

[1449] Can't see it any way.

[1450] Can't see him train it any other way?

[1451] That's what made Kane.

[1452] And I think that's all part of the plan Like there's a time for everybody There's a time There was a time designed for Tyrone Willey To become champion To be champion There's a time for me to be champion And to reign as a champion There's a time for everybody Of course I'm and like I said I like to take all these different knowledge That I get and I like to put it all together So of course my coaches are now No one to tell me, yo just go home Like you look great My mind I want to freaking go harder They're like, I don't know, you've done great.

[1453] Go home.

[1454] So where I'm listening, and I'm giving them the lead on that.

[1455] But the way I train is what's gotten me here.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] And the way Kane train is what's gotten them there.

[1458] Now it's the responsibility of not just Kane, but everybody else that's around him that he really confides it to let him know when it's too much or when it's not too much.

[1459] Yeah, well, with Kane, there's so many issues now because the surgeries have been so extensive and back surgery and knee surgery.

[1460] and reconstructions not just meniscus like you but the actual structure of the knee itself shoulders yeah one thing that i would always say is um kane you you can't always with with kane with anybody else is the human body and the human mind is so powerful you can never say oh man that's it's over for that guy or that guy's never going to be the same no you never know you never know like kane you know much respect to kain can can can can come back and be a savage and still run through guys in the next year or two.

[1461] For sure.

[1462] You never know that.

[1463] I mean, if he gets his knee fixed, I don't know what the extent of that injury was, but yeah, I'm hopeful and optimistic that he's going to be back soon, you know, but there's, I feel like there's a time for everybody.

[1464] And if Kane doesn't fight it like that, can you imagine Kane fighting any other way of point fighting, point fighting, oh, let me, you can't.

[1465] No, you can't.

[1466] No, and that's why there's an argument that is the best UFC heavyweight ever.

[1467] he's for sure one of the best UFC heavyweight armor Absolutely you know Not even the question Yeah Now when do they have you fighting Colby When is that supposed to take place I don't know You don't know I think it's um I have to get healthy first For a long long time I've been fighting hurt But I just like I don't care You down to Panama Yeah I'm gonna give you that guy's number We'll get off I'm gonna contact Dr. Reardon Give it to you I've been fighting her for so long Joe like whether it's a knee or whether there's been training camps so I could barely walk like walk not training walk walk walk for I think the last two years my daughter laughs at me I come down the stairs backwards really I go down the stairs backwards because it leaves pressure on my knees Jesus Christ and my daughter laughs at me but it was it was a time where I couldn't walk that's crazy before the Leon Edwards I fought Leon Edwards years ago before that fight, I could barely walk.

[1468] I mean, I shit you not, Joe.

[1469] Walk down to and from the house.

[1470] Like, from the car to the house.

[1471] It was in pain.

[1472] I walked on grass.

[1473] I couldn't walk on concrete because I felt like that relieved a little bit more stress.

[1474] Like, that's the extent of the pain that I've been in in some of these fights.

[1475] That is fucking insane.

[1476] Now, this is during the camp?

[1477] During the camp.

[1478] Just to make it to the fight.

[1479] Just walking on grass instead of concrete.

[1480] Walking on grass instead of concrete because he's a softer.

[1481] Jesus Christ.

[1482] And it doesn't, it's not as much hard, hard surface to walk on.

[1483] So just when the fight came on, you just put it all sides.

[1484] Yeah, when I walked through that cage, fuck it, let's go.

[1485] This is a matter of me getting maybe $10 ,000 or $20 ,000.

[1486] Let's go.

[1487] I chose to be here instead of sitting in front of it, instead of sitting at a desk, earning money, providing for my family, this is how I'm going to do it.

[1488] And like I said, Joe, like, my daughter lit a freaking fire under me, Joe.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] Man, I, when I, when I, that was an adorable moment, man. When you had her, you carried her, you put the belt on you?

[1491] I want her to, I want her to, yeah, when she grows up, I want her to remember that forever because she lit a fire.

[1492] Remember we were talking about the tank that you have in there?

[1493] Part of why I'm a little scared to be locked in those tanks is because I've never been claustophobic ever in my life.

[1494] I never was.

[1495] But there was a time when I found out that I was going to have her that, that my, you know, My girl was pregnant with her at the time.

[1496] I'm freaking living with Rashad Evans.

[1497] I have no money in my bank account.

[1498] I'm broke as hell.

[1499] And I'm having a child and I'm not married yet.

[1500] And especially these are these principles of your African parents.

[1501] You've got to be married and things like that.

[1502] I'm not married yet.

[1503] Of course, her mom is a phenomenal woman.

[1504] Phenomenal.

[1505] And I'm not married in all this.

[1506] things is happening, I was fucking, my mind, I was panicking.

[1507] And I had to fight before that, I just lost.

[1508] This was right after I lost the second fight.

[1509] Now I'm getting ready for the third fight.

[1510] And there was this doctor, doctor's office that we go in and sleep in the hyperbaric chamber because we heard it was better for your body and stuff like that.

[1511] So I'd be doing it here and there once a week.

[1512] I'd go in and sleep in the plastic ones.

[1513] They zip you up in there and it compresses up.

[1514] And I was in there.

[1515] And one time I was in there.

[1516] And I was in there.

[1517] I started thinking I usually pass out and when I it starts to decompress I wake up I'm in that thing and I wake up you know but it hasn't decompressed yet you know so I never really thought anything of it I'm just kind of in there and I'm in this office in this room it's dark because the nurses they flipped the light off and they go on about their business tending to other patients and I'm like okay shit I gotta fight this fight I got I got I I choked out in my last fight.

[1518] Damn.

[1519] Okay.

[1520] This shit might happen again.

[1521] This dude, they say this dude's tough.

[1522] They're saying this dude's tough.

[1523] He can scrap.

[1524] I'm about to have a daughter.

[1525] Shit.

[1526] I'm broke.

[1527] I got no money.

[1528] I got to win this fight because I'm fighting for like $2 ,000.

[1529] One at one.

[1530] If I win, $2 ,000.

[1531] All this shit is going through my head now.

[1532] This tank has indeed compressed.

[1533] The room is dark.

[1534] I'm hearing nothing, no nurses.

[1535] So now I start to get hot.

[1536] I'm in the thing and I started getting a little hot in the tank.

[1537] I'm like, okay, so now my body's getting a little hot.

[1538] I'm laying there.

[1539] Now I start dripping.

[1540] My forehead is dripping sweat.

[1541] So I'm trying to control.

[1542] I'm like, relax, bro.

[1543] You've done this how many times?

[1544] Relax.

[1545] You got this.

[1546] You got this.

[1547] mind it's like I'm stuck in this tube I don't know what's going on I I'm like dying here I don't know what's going on these you gotta get me out of here oh no so I'm like relax so I'm bringing my mind back I'm relax take a cheap breath you good you good what you're worried about now I'm having this conversation in my mind back and forth I'm like relax you good so I relax I'm like I think I you're going to knock this dude out jab jab one two boom okay so now I'm calm, I'm calm.

[1548] But what if you kind of with a left hand?

[1549] Boom, now you knocked out.

[1550] Now I'm fucking sweating.

[1551] Jesus Christ.

[1552] Joe, I say, you know, I was sweating so bad.

[1553] So I start tapping on the thing.

[1554] Like, you know, I don't want to freak out because I still got to be cool.

[1555] I don't want to let these nurses know, like, I'm freaking.

[1556] I'm a fighter.

[1557] I'm freaking out in his tank.

[1558] So I'm tapping on the thing.

[1559] I'm like, you know, trying to ask him like, hey, how much time we got left?

[1560] just to at least hear another voice.

[1561] Right.

[1562] Nothing.

[1563] Nothing.

[1564] They can't hear me because it's loud.

[1565] The tank is loud.

[1566] And I'm, relax.

[1567] I'm full on panic attack in there.

[1568] Full on panic attack.

[1569] And I'm trying to bring myself back.

[1570] I'm calming myself down.

[1571] And I'm sweating heavily, like profusely.

[1572] I'm dripping.

[1573] And all of a sudden, I'm tapping this thing hard.

[1574] And a nurse walks in.

[1575] As soon as she walks in and flips the light, I hear the machine start to decompress.

[1576] Oh, fucking, thank God.

[1577] And I'm like, she opens it.

[1578] You're okay?

[1579] Like, yeah, I'm good.

[1580] You know, it's just, you know, just getting a little hot.

[1581] But I had a full -blown panic attack in there.

[1582] I have not been in a hole in a hyperbaric chamber.

[1583] I tried it one time.

[1584] I probably could have done it, but I just.

[1585] Was it helping you?

[1586] I couldn't really tell.

[1587] My body was so damaged at the time.

[1588] Like, I'm so crazy on my body.

[1589] It's hard for me to tell It's supposed to heighten recoveries Yeah, it's supposed to heighten it But after that day Like certain things Kind of make me feel a certain way Like I've had tons of MRIs after that But they freak me out Because you put me in the MRI machine Especially when you got to do the head one I got to go in head first I don't like those I have to give myself a pep talk And calm myself down And go in there to do those now Like I just did one the other Last week before I had my surgery and the lady's trying to put me I'm like yo I just got it I got the disc from the last one that I did last week like the doctor said I could just bring this disc in and I'm good she's like the doctor wants this to get a new one I'm like you sure about that like I already got the same disc here I'm like no we got to do one I'm like how long is going to be 40 minutes fuck 40 minutes because my shoulders are wide so I'm in there tight and the machine is right here.

[1590] Yeah, and it's making a noise.

[1591] And it's like, yeah, I'm just, it's a, I have to give my mind a pep talk.

[1592] And I'm just like, relax, bro.

[1593] What you mean, man?

[1594] You good.

[1595] You got this.

[1596] You can do this.

[1597] And I look at the, I'm like, let's go.

[1598] Let's go.

[1599] Let's do it.

[1600] Let's knock it out.

[1601] Boom, then we're doing it.

[1602] And God forbid, I, I freaking wake up, or my mind starts wandering 20 minutes in, then I'm just fucking, Halfway panic attack to the rest, but I'll get through it.

[1603] Yeah, it's scary, but, you know, since that day, you know, and it was crazy.

[1604] Like, at that point when I was pregnant, when we were pregnant with my daughter, I was just like, fuck am I going to survive.

[1605] I can't keep asking this grown man, Rashad, that works hard to support me. I can't do that.

[1606] I got to make my own.

[1607] I got to do this.

[1608] So I was scared.

[1609] I was scared.

[1610] I didn't know what was going to happen.

[1611] And then all of a sudden, you know, right when we're having her, we have her, boom, boom, the opportunity comes out.

[1612] We're going to do the ultimate fighter.

[1613] I said, no, I don't want to do the ultimate fighter.

[1614] And there was shot, I was like, really, bro, you got to do this.

[1615] I fucking end up doing the ultimate fighter.

[1616] Boom.

[1617] I win the ultimate fighter.

[1618] Boom.

[1619] I fight for the finale.

[1620] Boom.

[1621] I do this.

[1622] Like rollercoaster.

[1623] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[1624] All the hard work, everything that I've been putting in.

[1625] Boom, starts paying off, paying off.

[1626] Now I'm making 10 and 10.

[1627] Okay, you feel like that's enough to be able to sustain me until I got to fight again.

[1628] I got to fight again, got to fight it again.

[1629] Boom, this happens.

[1630] This happens.

[1631] I get with, you know, amazing manager, Ali Abdulaziz who freaking, you know, help just transform the career, take it to the next level, you know, and get with him.

[1632] And now things are going the way that I, you know, I've been wanting them to go, boom, boom, boom, boom, everything's, man. And it was just, it's just motivation to keep working.

[1633] Like, and every time I look at my daughter, how innocent she is, how sweet and wonderful she is, man. He just freaking, it transforms me to where I'm, and there's a video, and I even have a video of, of her, because she's been coming to the gym with me ever since she was six months old.

[1634] I should take her to the gym, moms at work, she'd come to the gym with me. And when she comes to the gym, she knows what I do.

[1635] She watches me do it all the time.

[1636] There's this video where she's, she has, she has a gloves, and she hits the bag too when I work out.

[1637] And I was doing a cirque.

[1638] I was getting ready for a fight.

[1639] and she's running around with me and she's chairing me on she's like let's go daddy I'm so proud of him and like to my coach and she's like come on daddy and I watch those videos and I'm just like I was always one of those hard guys like man I ain't gonna be no sucker when I have kids like that I ain't gonna be acting like that I can't watch a video with her and not smile it's the craziest thing to me people who don't have children will never totally understand that no it's a different it's a different fire that they lie underneath you, man. If you don't get motivated once you have kids, you're never going to get motivated.

[1640] No, you probably shouldn't have just been doing that anyways.

[1641] It changed my life, for sure.

[1642] Yeah, she is, man, she's my little, she's my little rider.

[1643] She rides with me. She, I love her to death, man. I can't, nothing, I can't explain it.

[1644] I can't explain it.

[1645] She's my, she's my plus one.

[1646] That's what I call it.

[1647] It's my plus one.

[1648] No matter whatever I do in life from now on, she's a plus one she's with me that's amazing yeah I gotta find the video but it's so funny it's so funny when I'm doing like a circuit and I'm running around and you can see her run around like come on daddy I'm so proud of him so she's just hanging out like no one's watching her no she just hanging out she's such a good little girl like that was in she was six months old I put her in her car scene just put her by the side of map boom she just watched me train for two hours wow two hours to when she got to you know a certain point where we had like a daycare in the gym and she would go in the gym she would go to the daycare and she was she was good there and then to the point where now like the kids that are in our gym are around similar age and and our coach's wife henry puky she does a good job and she would just watch them you know but they govern themselves they just play around on the other side or run around but it's not like they're around harmful things in the gym you know they just have a good time that that's great that you have that environment yeah man she's like i said like a lot of people are like oh man she's so beautiful you're you're gonna be no i'm not worried like my daughter's gonna have a nice one two and a hard low kick and you know whoever can deal with that hey good luck wow yeah man but yeah she lit that fire and uh and i dreamt about that moment so it's so surreal Joe, I think about that moment, like, when you were interviewing me, like, I freaking forgot your name when you were interviewing me. I'm like, Joe, wait, your name is Joe.

[1649] Yeah, your name is Joe.

[1650] It's got to be surreal when they put that belt around you for the first time.

[1651] Yeah, because I imagine it so many times.

[1652] Let me ask you something, honestly.

[1653] Do you like the new belt or the old belt?

[1654] Initially, I used to talk.

[1655] I was like, man, not because that's what you picture that old belt.

[1656] Right, right, right.

[1657] And we're human beings.

[1658] People don't like change.

[1659] Right.

[1660] You know, that was the thing.

[1661] It's like, oh, man, this shit looked like this.

[1662] spaceship but that fucking thing is phenomenal that's your belt phenomenal i that new belt now is phenomenal it's amazing you want it beautiful it's beautiful of course i always wanted that old belt you know but now it's like comparing it to it no like this new belt's got out of those colors of this country flags on it and the stones it's amazing like you know the people that all the ones that are still hating on it and say oh no that looks crazy wait till you put that belt on you wait till you hold that thing and it's super heavy and I'm at it's amazing it's amazing I love it what did you think about that uh the deal today where all the pay -per -views are going to be on ESPN plus uh fucking UFC baby these guys are hey there's always a way to cut out the middle man yeah I guess so yeah hopefully this is the thing is my hope is now the pay -per -view scale for the fighters bumps that's what I hope but I hope the numbers stay high because people have to subscribe now to ESPN Plus I believe I'm not sure That can't be Because if you're paying your money Like Unless you get it free Like because if you're Is that what it is It says you have to subscribe To ESPN Plus In order to get a pay -per -view Wow How does that work With people That out of the Out of the country I believe it's cheaper Though I think it's the same price you're paying At the end of the day Because I think it was like 65 or 70 Yeah, but now you get a subscription.

[1663] It's 60 instead of 65.

[1664] Right.

[1665] And it comes at the subscription, right?

[1666] So you have, but you have to subscribe, and you can cancel it any time, so you can subscribe.

[1667] So you have to, what if someone only wants to buy one or two paper reviews a year?

[1668] They resubscribe every time?

[1669] I guess.

[1670] Yeah, I mean.

[1671] Yeah, I mean, it's, it works.

[1672] I mean, if you really want to, I hope it doesn't mess with the numbers.

[1673] I wish Brian and Schaub was in here so you could talk some shit.

[1674] You and I can't talk some shit about this, but if Shaw was here.

[1675] man Brandon Brandon is another guy I think Brandon's doing His shows got big He's huge He's doing phenomenal Yeah I went to one of his shows Down in Florida West Palm Yeah Florida And I got fucking It's Brendan's I think he was funny I was like He's Brendan's shop I was bored And I was like Let's go to a Brendan's shop show And I go He was freaking funny Like he told the whole He told the whole story Man And I was impressed Man Matt's off to Brennan's shop Like he was funny he just basically all he did was tell his story of what's going on what went on in his life in his career but the shit the twist it was freaking funny that i went backstage towards the end i was like man that show was funny i didn't think you were funny but that was that was amazing i loved it well he's showing fighters that there's a path outside of fighting absolutely he makes way more money now than he ever made during fighting times and he's doing well and he's happy and he's fulfilled he's got two great podcasts that he's doing he does comedy shows shows just did just filmed a showtime special he's doing that's amazing and which is oh excuse me part of um like all this whole shit people are giving tiring and giving him shit for you know doing music or doing movies and all this stuff like that man no man I more power to him I'm glad that he's doing that because that's what we want you want all this different revenue streams to where you don't have to get punched in the face until you're 50 you got to have an exit strategy Yeah, and I love that and I appreciate that That's what I want to do Like can you freaking Imagine me and Francis In the next Black Panther Like you can see it right Like what perfect shoe is What perfect we should definitely be in that Whoever is making that movie casting for that Hey Francis in Ghana you don't need to teach us accents at all Like I'm from Nigeria There's no team you have to teach me I have my own accent You can teach them You know yeah I can teach them I'm still authentic.

[1676] Yeah, so, you know, I commend them for that, man. Have you thought about an exit strategy?

[1677] Absolutely.

[1678] What do you think you're going to do?

[1679] I want to do all that.

[1680] Like, I, you know, I've been commentating.

[1681] I work with Titan FC down in South Florida.

[1682] Titan does an amazing show, too.

[1683] You know, I commentate for them.

[1684] There's some very good fighters come out of there.

[1685] Very good.

[1686] Like, I mean, they, sometimes I'm washing the fight.

[1687] I'm like, fuck, these guys fought each other for one and one.

[1688] Yeah.

[1689] Like, good, good tough fighters.

[1690] They want to get into the big show.

[1691] Absolutely.

[1692] Yeah.

[1693] So, man, yeah.

[1694] I commentate for them.

[1695] I think that's on UFC Fight Pass, right?

[1696] UFC Fight Pass, yeah.

[1697] And so, yeah, I want to get into movies.

[1698] I've been, you know, practicing.

[1699] I think I can do it.

[1700] Like, I'm not in no way saying what they do is easy.

[1701] Like, those actors, like, I know they work hard to be able to transform and make people feel a certain way and evoke certain emotions from different people with your characters.

[1702] That's a real art. So I respect that, and I want to learn more about that.

[1703] And yeah, definitely when I want to do movies to get more famous, richer and not get punched in the face oh for sure absolutely what about doing a podcast you ever thought of that yeah i would love it you know i just haven't i just haven't been approached with the right you know with the right situation no the beautiful thing about podcast you don't need anybody yeah you don't need shit you just need a fucking tape player you could use it on your phone you could record what you think there's great little tiny microphones that stick in the bottom of your iPhone and it worked great and you just sit down and talk about shit yeah we'll have to give that a try when i don't want right now is is it's something that distract me right because i i'm not one of those guys who are oh yeah i got a fight now i got to be in training camp right and if i don't have a fight i'm just doing whatever fuck if i want you're always training practice every day i'm going to practice because i it's like my life right now it doesn't know i don't know what to do if i don't go to practice right so so while you're recovering from the surgery yeah i'm going to try some different Does it feel good, though, to just slow down a little bit?

[1704] Smell the roses?

[1705] Not really, because this whole week, I couldn't freaking train.

[1706] I wanted to go to the gym and at least hit the back.

[1707] Excuse me. Hit the bag of something or just, you know, because I think I'm an addict of that burn.

[1708] Of course.

[1709] That burn of an workout.

[1710] Whether it's lifting or push -ups or doing something.

[1711] Pushing yourself.

[1712] Yeah, I'm an addict of that.

[1713] And so when I don't have that, it's kind of like, I don't know what to do in myself.

[1714] And that's what made you the champion.

[1715] I mean, that engine that's inside you is what made you the champion.

[1716] It only makes sense.

[1717] Yeah.

[1718] Well, if you really could just relax and kick back, I'd be nervous.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] I'd be like, damn, look at them.

[1721] Shifting gears already.

[1722] That's what they say.

[1723] They're like, oh, you change now.

[1724] You changed.

[1725] You're a different person now.

[1726] You know, you don't got Hollywood on us.

[1727] You don't, I fucking hate when people say that.

[1728] Yeah, it's a gross thing people say it.

[1729] People just love to.

[1730] come up with some excuses for why they don't do as well as you or why?

[1731] Oh, what I was going to bring up to is I saw you do because when I started researching you and watching your stuff, I saw the podcast you did with freaking Jimmy Fox years ago or something like that.

[1732] Fucking, I mean, I'm such a huge, I'm a huge Jamie Fox fan.

[1733] He's so fucking talented.

[1734] I mean, talking triple threat.

[1735] He can do anything.

[1736] How many people can do things?

[1737] He does stand -up comedy.

[1738] Like, chicks are in trouble.

[1739] Trouble.

[1740] Sings incredible.

[1741] Women are in trouble.

[1742] Oh my God.

[1743] Everybody's in trouble.

[1744] He can make you laugh.

[1745] He can serenades you with his voice.

[1746] And he can freaking act.

[1747] A lot of dudes are lucky.

[1748] He's not gay.

[1749] How about that?

[1750] He can take me in trouble.

[1751] Give me in trouble.

[1752] Oh my God.

[1753] He's fucking amazing, man. He's such a genuine guy, too.

[1754] Like, I've known him for a long time, but he's a fucking Academy Award -winning actor.

[1755] When he comes in and hangs out with you, you would never imagine it I that's that's what I grab the energies like that is what I he's so normal it's like it's like we shot Evans yeah shot is the same way yeah and those energies like I really gravitate towards yeah and I love yeah people who don't take themselves seriously yeah but they do they do course like they do but they don't pretend they're better than you or anything like I ran into Jamie at a fucking gas station like six six seven months ago some guy what time was this normal time like during the He was actually with his daughter.

[1756] She was coming from a martial arts class.

[1757] And I'm getting gas, and this guy pulls up in this crazy fucking car.

[1758] Like, I never saw one of these things before.

[1759] I forget what it's called.

[1760] Some weird SUV that looks like it's from the future.

[1761] Like, oh, is a Lamborghini?

[1762] No, no, it's not a Lamborghini.

[1763] It's some crazy.

[1764] He knows the guy who makes him.

[1765] It's crazy.

[1766] I mean, I don't even know what the fuck it is.

[1767] I never saw one before.

[1768] I'm like, what is this thing?

[1769] And I'm looking at this thing.

[1770] And then the dude rolls down the winter.

[1771] I goes, what's up, Joe?

[1772] I go, oh, what's up, Jamie?

[1773] I go, what the fuck is this, man?

[1774] And he's so normal.

[1775] He jumps out of the car and starts talking.

[1776] People just start coming up to him.

[1777] And he's like, hey, what's up?

[1778] How are you doing?

[1779] Just totally normal.

[1780] You know what?

[1781] I kind of, I feel a little bit of that right now because it's, I still do the same shit.

[1782] Like, I'm still, I still go to the same little nutrition shop that I go to get a protein shake here and there.

[1783] And I still go to the same, like I took my daughter to the movies before I left.

[1784] Yeah.

[1785] So go to I pick.

[1786] And I'm just rolling.

[1787] It's just me, me and her.

[1788] Perfect.

[1789] You know, we'll just freaking roll in.

[1790] Keep that as long as you can.

[1791] And people, and people ask for pictures.

[1792] And I think one guy at one time said like, bro, I can, fuck, I can't believe you're here, bro.

[1793] Like, bro.

[1794] You're serious, bro?

[1795] Like, this point, I was like, bro, you, you're here, bro?

[1796] Like, who's mom, bro?

[1797] Can I get a, bro, can I get a picture with you, Like, he almost like crying.

[1798] I was like, I was like, yeah, bro, of course.

[1799] You can get him.

[1800] Yeah, you want me take it?

[1801] Which angle?

[1802] You'll let me take a couple.

[1803] I'm snapping the picture.

[1804] I'm kidding.

[1805] But they just couldn't believe the fact that I'm normal.

[1806] You know, that people are just normal.

[1807] People are just normal.

[1808] People are just people.

[1809] They're just people.

[1810] And I think one of the great things about someone who accomplishes something's pretty spectacular is that you didn't just do that and win the world title, but you set a lot of people in motion.

[1811] You know how many people watch that?

[1812] It must have been pumped up and.

[1813] excited about it and then started doing things.

[1814] There's probably a lot of people that decided to start fighting because I watched that.

[1815] I mean, millions of people watch that fight.

[1816] So stop and think about how many different people must have been inspired by that.

[1817] How many different people saw the highlights on Instagram and on Twitter and on YouTube and how many people got fired up because of that.

[1818] And that's what I'm thankful for, Joe.

[1819] I'm thankful for the opportunity.

[1820] Shout out to the UFC for creating such a business and a market now towards you can touch so many people.

[1821] all across the world because that's and fighting is one thing that's a universal language.

[1822] It doesn't matter if you fucking speak Russian, you speak English or you speak you know, Igbo or Yorabi doesn't matter.

[1823] Yeah.

[1824] You know fighting.

[1825] Right.

[1826] This, this, right, this.

[1827] You don't have to know the rules.

[1828] You don't have to know the rules.

[1829] Everybody.

[1830] It's not like cricket.

[1831] Yeah, it's universal.

[1832] So it's one of those things that that's a sport that's going to just going to grow.

[1833] It's only going to get bigger and bigger, man. Shout out to the USC, Dana you know, Hunter.

[1834] all these guys, Lorenzo for Tito, all these guys that created this and packaged it to the way it is now because it's given us platforms to be able to touch people.

[1835] And yeah, I truly I'm aware of what that could have done for certain people, certain people.

[1836] Yeah, I might have not thought of individual person, but someone, you know, I might have inspired someone to start fighting that come from where I come from or somewhere in China, Indonesia, anywhere in the world.

[1837] Yeah.

[1838] Yeah, so I'm thankful.

[1839] I'm very thankful for that.

[1840] Yeah, I mean, that is a big part of what a champion is.

[1841] I mean, we were talking earlier about Marvin Hagler or different fighters that I watched when I was a kid coming up.

[1842] Those people give you energy, you know?

[1843] There's something about watching someone do something spectacular.

[1844] They give you energy.

[1845] And when you hear a story like yours, you know, a kid who immigrates to the United States at eight years old and goes through all the shit that you went through and becomes a world champion, people hear that, man. It gets them off the fucking couch, man. It gets them to do things.

[1846] It does.

[1847] And a thing about during that fight is there was two other guys, two special guests that I had come to the fight.

[1848] And they were both Nigerian nightmares, you know, in their respective rights, sports and right.

[1849] Christian Akoye, you know, Kansas City Chiefs running back was called a Nigerian nightmare because he was a fucking terror.

[1850] You know who Christian, you know the whole Christian Akoy is?

[1851] I don't know anything about football.

[1852] It was a fucking.

[1853] Jamie's laughing.

[1854] He knows who it is.

[1855] Yeah, he was a fucking.

[1856] monster man he was like uh i think he was 200 like 260 pound running back like i'm talking mack truck running through dude boom boom boom and you know and he had speed and power so he was considered a nigeria nightmare so he was one of those first guys that people really resonated as a nigerian nightmare in american sports and and i never watched him play live of course not but these are the guys that they create such a legacy to where when you're growing up somehow you hear about that legacy and that inspired me to want to be great bearing that nickname and also Samuel Peters I don't know if you know Samuel Peters have WBC heavyweight champion the world was at the fight oh no shit and man uh these guys are man I didn't I never saw him fight live but he created such a legacy to where I heard about him yeah I had to research them and these guys inspired me to where now having that nickname you got to you know I have to to hold it to the highest regards.

[1857] I have to do the best that I can to be able to inspire many, many kids that are going to come, you know, in the future.

[1858] So, man, I'm thankful for the opportunity and just grateful.

[1859] I'm a humble little kid from Aouchi, Nigeria, you know.

[1860] I used to walk around barefoot, step on nails, glasses, you know, things like that.

[1861] And now look what we're at.

[1862] Now we're rocking shoes designers, baby.

[1863] Dude, you're the UFC Welterweight champion of the world.

[1864] undisputed yeah man it's pretty incredible yeah does it feel real no I mean I'm still feel normal I don't feel anything but you know you're the champ yeah I mean but I think part of why it feels the way it does it because I've known for a long time like I've felt like it for a long time I've I've known nothing's going to change the way I'm going to train for these fights nothing is going to change in my mentality how I'm going to approach these fights all the same it's still a fight is a fight it's not oh I'm trying to defend this or I'm trying to hold on to this i don't give a shit i'm still going in there to dominate you from start to finish to break you mentally so you never want to freaking fight me again that's my approach to every fight so nothing changes i don't feel different everyone the only thing now is that's cool everyone's like treat me a little different people kind of you know people hold doors for me now and shit like that hopefully you're making a shitload more money well yeah let's that's you heard that dana yeah hopefully uh hopefully uh hopefully that but that's the only difference like I don't feel different I don't act any different at least I hope not no when we were talking earlier about guys who like to trash talk and what trash talking is kind of doing for the sport whether it's good or bad you know and some guys are really funny with it like Connor's fucking hilarious with it something about that that is like when Jeremy Stevens said something about it it's like who the fuck is that guy I mean the most famous line in fucking in sports yeah i mean it's i mean oh man i mean how many times has that been repeated oh shout out to germany stevens too i like germany i love germany i love germany i love germany i love he's a beast yeah but i think that that's not the only way a guy can sell a lot of paper views a guy can also sell a lot of paper views by being exceptional and that was the case with george st pierre like george st pierre was never a trash talker and still sold a shitload of paper reviews.

[1865] I think we're as human beings, humans can kind of tell the energy.

[1866] If it's a fake energy, I think people can tell people put off by it.

[1867] Well, people are also enamored of people that are exceptional.

[1868] Yes.

[1869] If you just, you can just be exceptional.

[1870] You don't have to just be talking shit all the time and pushing each other at press conferences.

[1871] It's not the only way.

[1872] No, but then you get those, you know, you get the majority of the, the shitty fans who, who likes that stuff Who wants to see it too Yeah there's a few Who even though they know it's fake They just still like that They just want to see it You know so they put that pressure on people Like no you gotta do this You have to do that Because those are the guys that are gonna tweet you Don't are gonna comment you Do they tell you No They give you advice on how to talk No no I mean data's never once said You gotta talk You gotta do this you gotta do that No they don't do that Do you feel though that sometimes they show you that by favoring guys who do do that?

[1873] Like when Colby got a shot at the interim title before you?

[1874] Yeah, because this is the thing is when someone starts doing that and they're starting to trend a lot more.

[1875] Of course, the company gets behind them because the company's about money.

[1876] It's about green.

[1877] Like, they got to make money.

[1878] And that's one thing that I understand more than anything right now.

[1879] They're about green.

[1880] Like, people say, oh, Danny hates me because this and that.

[1881] The only race Dana cares about is green.

[1882] like if you're going to make money dana cares right and so and i think that once that someone starts doing that and they're starting to create a little they're starting to have a little buzz of course dana is going to push because that guys might bring in money making more money so i understand that aspect of it but it's not i don't think is dana necessarily saying oh man you got to act like this you got to do this because this is what sells no connor did it and if connor became who he became so yeah Connor is going to be favored because connor brings in millions and millions of dollars.

[1883] Habib did it his way.

[1884] And now Habib brings him when he's, you know, he's favored.

[1885] So he's going to bring in money and things like that.

[1886] But Dana's not going around and saying, you know, you got to be like this guy.

[1887] You got to be like that guy.

[1888] You know, Bisbane did it his way.

[1889] You know, and Bisbbing brought in money.

[1890] George did it his way.

[1891] It's just as long as you want to be real, what you choose to do, you're going to be real with yourself.

[1892] Because at the end of the day, you have to look at yourself in the mirror.

[1893] Yes.

[1894] If you can do what you want, to do and then at the end of the day look in the mirror when everyone's gone it's just you you take a piss in the morning and then you wake up and look at yourself in your mirror and you're like I'm all right then that's fine do you beautiful beautifully put you're a bad motherfucker tomorrow my man thanks for doing this man thank you it's a pleasure thanks for telling people your story and inspiring people and I wish you nothing but the best thank you man I appreciate it Kamara Usman ladies and gentlemen the champ