Impeached, Again

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barrow.

[1] This is the day of it.

[2] Today, for the second time, President Trump is impeached by the United States House of Representatives.

[3] This time, with the support of Republicans, White House reporter Maggie Haberman, on the historic vote.

[4] And what happens now?

[5] It's Thursday, January 14th.

[6] Maggie, I want to start with what we understood heading in to this historic day, the impeachment of President Trump for the second time.

[7] So, Michael, as this day began, a number of factors had come into play.

[8] Vice President Mike Pence had made clear to Democrats in the House that he was not considering invoking the 25th Amendment and moving to remove President Trump from office.

[9] That meant that impeachment was the only option forward for how that.

[10] Democrats if they wanted to move before he leaves office.

[11] Now, we knew that there were a small number of Republicans in the House who were speaking out and saying they supported impeachment and would vote in favor of those articles.

[12] One of them was very significant.

[13] It was Liz Cheney, Congresswoman from Wyoming, who is number three in the House GOP leadership.

[14] And of course, the daughter of a former Republican vice president.

[15] The daughter of a former Republican vice president, and very much a representative of an old -school establishment wing of this party who has been supportive of the president, but not unconditionally.

[16] And she released this statement the night before the impeachment vote that set the stage for her thinking and why she was going to vote the way she did.

[17] And what she said was, without mincing any words, quote, the president of the United States summoned this mob, assembled this mob, and lit the flame of the situation.

[18] attack.

[19] Everything that followed was his doing.

[20] None of this would have happened without the president.

[21] The president could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence.

[22] He did not.

[23] That's about as strongly worded a statement as you can imagine from a member of either party, and this is the number three Republican in the House.

[24] Absolutely.

[25] We have heard few notes of condemnation from Democrats that were harsher than this, and we have heard very few condemnations from Republicans that did not offer some fig leaf to other Republicans by also criticizing Democrats at the same time.

[26] Liz Cheney went right at President Trump and made very clear that she is laying the blame for last week's violence and last week's deaths in the Capitol at his feet.

[27] So heading into Wednesday, what we understood is that this impeachment was going to be different because unlike the last one, in which not a single Republican, voted for impeachment, this was very likely to be a bipartisan impeachment of Donald Trump.

[28] That's exactly right, Michael.

[29] And it's significant, not because there was such a volume of Republicans who were going to vote for it.

[30] There weren't.

[31] But it was significant because the first impeachment of President Trump, which took place in the House a little over a year ago, there were zero Republicans.

[32] It was a strict party line vote.

[33] And the Republican leadership in the House and the Senate were whipping their members to keep.

[34] them in line to support President Trump.

[35] That is the opposite of what we are seeing right now.

[36] House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy made very clear that he favored a censure motion.

[37] He does not favor impeachment, but that he did think that the president held blame for last week.

[38] And that is different.

[39] And Mitch McConnell had let it be known heading into today that while the Senate, if there is a trial, was not going to be involved for a little while to go, that he was pleased by what Democrats were doing, as Jonathan Martin and I reported, and that he was open to voting for a conviction.

[40] That is a huge difference, too.

[41] Right.

[42] So the kind of traditional scaffolding of protection that we expect from the Republican Party, it was just gone.

[43] Certainly the scaffolding that we have seen under President Trump, which has just been an iron fist, was gone.

[44] It didn't wipe out completely, particularly in the House where a lot of these Republicans are from districts where Donald Trump is very popular.

[45] But the tone of it all was very different than what we saw last time.

[46] So, Maggie, describe how this day starts in Washington.

[47] So, Michael, the day began with a site we had never seen before, and the images were striking and jarring of National Guard soldiers just everywhere.

[48] sleeping on the floors of the Capitol, in long rows lying down inside the Capitol Visitor's Center, which is this huge cavernous chamber.

[49] It was a stark scene of militarization of the Capitol, which we will see for several days going forward now because of the attack on the building and because there is a presidential inauguration in Washington next week at that building.

[50] And it was against this backdrop that the House had convened, and lawmakers who had been the subject of this attack at this very place began this debate over whether to impeach the president for having allegedly instigated it.

[51] Is the gentleman from New York, Mr. Nadler, seek recognition.

[52] Madam Speaker, pursuant to House Resolution 41, I call up House Resolution 24 and ask for its immediate consideration in the House.

[53] Right, there was something very personal about all of this because the targets of the debate are now holding the impeachment debate.

[54] It's very close to their hearts.

[55] Absolutely, Michael.

[56] This happened to all of them, but to Nancy Pelosi in particular, she was hunted by members of this riot crowd.

[57] This is a deeply, deeply personal thing.

[58] And a speaker, I yield one minute to the distinguished speaker of the House, the gentle lady from California, Ms. Pelosi.

[59] Right.

[60] And, of course, she starts things off and begins to present.

[61] the case against the president.

[62] Thank you, Madam Speaker.

[63] I thank the gentleman for yielding and for his leadership.

[64] That's right.

[65] And her main case by the House Speaker, who was a Democrat, was that the president is a clear and present danger to the country.

[66] We know that we faced enemies of the Constitution.

[67] We know we experienced the insurrection that violated the sanctity of the people's capital and attempted to overturn the duly recorded will of the American people.

[68] And we know that the president of the United States, States incited this insurrection, this armed rebellion against our common country.

[69] He must go.

[70] He is a clear and present danger to the nation that we all love.

[71] She then pointed to the fact that since the election in November...

[72] Since the presidential election in November, an election the president lost.

[73] He has repeatedly lied about the outcome and sowed self -serving doubt about democracy.

[74] and unconstitutionally sought to influence state officials to repeal reality.

[75] And then she described...

[76] And then came that day of fire...

[77] That day of fire we all experienced.

[78] The president must be impeached, and I believe the president must be convicted by the Senate a constitutional remedy that will ensure that the republic will be safe from this man who was so resolutely determined to tear down the things.

[79] things that we hold dear, and that hold us together.

[80] And it felt, Maggie, like, this was the recurring and central case for impeachment from Democrats on the House floor on Wednesday.

[81] And in some ways, it's pretty simple.

[82] Every day Donald Trump is president, he presents an ongoing danger to our lives as members of this body and to the lives of Americans.

[83] That's exactly right.

[84] He is a clear and present danger to the health, safety, and well -being of the American people, Donald Trump is a living, breathing, impeachable offense.

[85] We don't have a minute to spare.

[86] He is a clear and present danger to the people.

[87] That is why, even though it's only seven days before the end of his term, we have the fierce urgency of now.

[88] Seven days is too long for him to be in power.

[89] He could declassify state secrets.

[90] He could monetize national secrets to foreign adversaries.

[91] And he could even pardon.

[92] The person.

[93] The gentleman's time has expired.

[94] The gentleman from New York.

[95] Their case is not just about last week.

[96] Their case is the last week was the culmination of two months of damaging lies, told by the President of the United States.

[97] For two months, Donald Trump used the biggest megaphone in the world to organize a campaign of outright lies to overturn a free and fair election.

[98] And that his lies had consequences because his supporters heard it as a call to action.

[99] to go to the Capitol and do damage.

[100] They were radicalized by his lies and conspiracy theories he spent months fueling, many of which I've heard on this floor the last week.

[101] You had Representative Castro from Florida.

[102] Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

[103] I rise today to urge the impeachment of Donald Trump describe it as the single most depraved betrayal of the U .S. Constitution.

[104] The single most depraved betrayal of the U .S. Constitution ever committed by a president.

[105] ever committed by a president.

[106] So how did Democrats close out their case for impeachment?

[107] This is a troubled time, a sad time.

[108] It is a time where all of us have stood almost to a person and lamented the violence and the assault on this capital and the assault on democracy itself.

[109] So Steny Hoyer, the House number two Democrat, got up and he called on Republicans.

[110] Republicans with a pretty urgent call.

[111] Soon the clerk will call the roll.

[112] He said soon the clerk will call the roll and ask for our votes.

[113] Make no mistake.

[114] This will be no ordinary roll call.

[115] With just seven days left in the president's term, this vote is not about timing.

[116] It is about principle and fidelity to our Constitution.

[117] Steny Hoyer demonstrates that this is not just about, the momentary consequence of behavior because so much about the Donald Trump era has just been about being in the present.

[118] These votes will be inscribed on the role of history, a record of courage and of our commitment to country and constitution, of our commitment to the rule of law and renewal of that which we inherited and hope to pass on, unbroken, unshattered.

[119] He describes this as a moment that history is going to record and remember not just about one day at the Capitol.

[120] And it's clearly a message not so much directed at his Democratic colleagues, but at the Republicans on the other side of that room.

[121] It is a message intended for Republicans who Democrats know many of them, not all of them, by any means, but many of them are deeply disturbed by what happened last week and hoping to appeal to them to join them in voting for impeachment.

[122] So I ask this House, who among us, Madam Speaker, will be recorded on the role of history for their courage, their commitment, the Constitution and their country.

[123] Vote for this, for America.

[124] I yield back the balance by time.

[125] All time for debate has expired.

[126] Pursuant to House Resolution 41.

[127] The previous question is ordered on the resolution.

[128] The question is on adoption of the resolution.

[129] Those in favor say aye.

[130] We'll be right back.

[131] So let's turn to Republicans, Maggie, and what they had to say during this impeachment debate, you had told us that the day began with the understanding that a small handful of them would vote to impeach, but of course it was just going to be a small handful.

[132] That's right, Michael.

[133] The White House was prepared for as many as two dozen, but they were hopeful that it would be a small group, and it was indeed a relatively small group.

[134] It was a minority of the minority of the minority.

[135] Most of them were never going to be behind.

[136] this in general, and they offered a bunch of different reasons, basically four or five as to why they weren't, whereas the Democrats were very united in what they were saying about not just impeachment, but about the violence last week.

[137] Republicans were sort of splintering.

[138] So let's talk about those Republican arguments.

[139] What was the first camp here that we heard from?

[140] So one of the main camps that we heard from of defenders of the president historically.

[141] The gentleman from Ohio was recognized.

[142] Was led by Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I'm making soon.

[143] Jim Jordan of Ohio, who is a House Freedom Caucus member and an ally of the president's.

[144] 19 minutes.

[145] Four years ago on inauguration day, January 20th, 2017, 19 minutes into President Trump's administration at 12 .19 p .m. The Washington Post headline was, campaign to impeach President Trump has begun.

[146] And he began by making an argument you could have imagined hearing coming out of Donald Trump's own Twitter feed if he still had one.

[147] Mm -hmm.

[148] Three -year Mueller investigation, 19 lawyers, 40 agents, 500 witnesses, 2 ,500 subpoenas, 40 million dollars to find nothing.

[149] Where he said basically Democrats want to cancel the president.

[150] Why?

[151] Politics and the fact that they want to cancel the president.

[152] It's always been about getting the president no matter what.

[153] That this effort essentially began when he took office.

[154] Seems to me that impeachment is an itch that doesn't go away with just one scratch.

[155] And Jordan was joined in this by Representative Matt Gates of Florida, another staunch ally of the president.

[156] This president has faced unprecedented hatred and resistance from big media, big tech, and big egos from congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle.

[157] Who, just like Jordan, portrayed this as the culmination of a years -long effort to wound President Trump.

[158] I denounced political violence from all ends of the spectrum, but make no mistake.

[159] The left in America has incited far more political violence than the right.

[160] For months, our cities burned, police stations burned.

[161] Some have cited the metaphor that the president lit the flame.

[162] Well, they lit actual flames, actual fires.

[163] Time expired.

[164] There will be order in a house.

[165] Right.

[166] So this camp can be summarized.

[167] as unbridled in its defense of Trump and seeing this impeachment as just another chapter in what they see as Democrats' singular focus on undermining this president, but they're not really acknowledging what happened last week and the president's role in it.

[168] That's exactly right.

[169] They made no mention of the president's speech or the president's repeated claims, false claims, that the election had been stolen from him.

[170] The gentleman from California is recognized for four minutes.

[171] Thank you, Mr. Speaker, you know, I didn't like the president's speech on January 6th.

[172] He was wrong to set such a confrontational tone in a politically tense situation.

[173] But what did he actually say?

[174] So the next group of Republicans made the argument that, look, this article of impeachment is fundamentally flawed on technical bases.

[175] Quote, I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

[176] unquote.

[177] It says that the president incited a riot, but that's not provable.

[178] And that's impeachable?

[179] That's called politics.

[180] P .S. politicians say incendiary things all the time.

[181] Mm -hmm.

[182] Right.

[183] And this was led by Congressman Tom McClintock, and he made a very interesting claim.

[184] He said, If we impeached every politician who gave a fiery speech to a crowd of partisans, this capital would be deserted.

[185] Every politician who ever made a fiery speech were impeached, this room would be empty.

[186] He's arguing this congressman is saying basically that lunatics are going to be lunatics and essentially that politics often attracts lunatics.

[187] But it did seem to ignore the evidence that some rioters had said, we are here.

[188] We're at the Capitol because the president told us to be here.

[189] That is recorded.

[190] That is on tape.

[191] Okay.

[192] So what is the next camp of Republicans during this hearing?

[193] The gentleman from North Dakota is recognized for one minute.

[194] Thank you, Madam Speaker.

[195] What happened last Wednesday is an absolute tragedy.

[196] And not only are we part of dealing with it now, we were part of it then.

[197] But when emotions are frayed and tensions are this high, process matters more.

[198] So their argument, Michael, this third group of Republicans, was that the speed of this impeachment, which was extraordinarily fast, could not possibly be.

[199] fair to President Trump.

[200] Has any one of those individuals who brought violence on this Capitol been brought here to answer whether they did that because of our president?

[201] That there was not time for a real investigation.

[202] There were no witnesses, no hearings.

[203] That basically this was a 48 -hour impeachment process and therefore a rush to judgment and condemn.

[204] This is so dangerous.

[205] what you're doing for getting all the precedents yes we can argue back and forth but you're using this as a weapon and you're destroying this little experiment self -government in a year's time the gentleman's time has expired it needs to stop a yield back and part of where that argument from this group of Republicans Michael got some traction even with Democrats privately but with some Democrats was that as Pelosi was weighing the impeachment process, she allowed House members to go home for the weekend.

[206] And the concern was you're losing time.

[207] And if this is an emergency, then we should be moving now.

[208] There is something to be said for the fact that an impeachment process is supposed to have witnesses and hearings and evidence.

[209] The flip side of that is this event took place in the Capitol and at the Capitol.

[210] These members witnessed a lot.

[211] of it.

[212] So that argument is that the normal rules of necessary hearings and presenting evidence are made null because people saw things with their own eyes.

[213] Right.

[214] This is the unique case in which the lawmakers themselves are basically witnesses.

[215] Exactly.

[216] Okay.

[217] So what about the fourth group of Republicans?

[218] This in some ways, Michael, is the largest camp.

[219] And their argument is that the president's behavior was wrong.

[220] They are displeased with him.

[221] They're disappointed.

[222] in him, but that impeachment is a trauma on the country.

[223] It is bad for the country.

[224] It will so disunity.

[225] And that this is the wrong way for the Biden administration to begin.

[226] California, Mr. McCarthy.

[227] The gentleman from California is recognized for one minute.

[228] Thank you gentlemen for yielding.

[229] Madam Speaker, let me be clear.

[230] And most prominently of all among Republicans making this argument was House Republican Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy.

[231] The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters.

[232] Who went out of his way to make clear who was responsible for the attack.

[233] Some say the riots were caused by Antifa.

[234] There is absolutely no evidence of that.

[235] He dismissed the president's suggestions that it was Antifa.

[236] He said it was not.

[237] He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

[238] These facts require immediate action by President Trump.

[239] And he said that the president is responsible for it and should be held accountable.

[240] Truly, this past week was one of the most difficult for Congress and our nation.

[241] He said that last Wednesday was the worst day I have ever seen in Congress.

[242] Our country is deeply hurt.

[243] But here is what a vote to impeach would do.

[244] A vote to impeach would further divide this nation.

[245] But he said that...

[246] Congress members need to remember that they are, quote, still here to deliver a better future for all Americans.

[247] But times like these are when we must remember who we are as Americans and what we as a nation stand for.

[248] And as history shows unity is, quote, not an option.

[249] It's a necessity.

[250] In these trying times, may God continue to bless America.

[251] And let's chart a course that history will pete, but not what's happening today.

[252] I yield back.

[253] The gentleman yields back.

[254] So what do you make of what McCarthy is up to here in this speech?

[255] McCarthy is trying to make clear that he condemns the behavior, in part for the institution, in part because he believes it's politically the right thing to do, but in part because I think he is genuinely seconded by what he saw last week.

[256] But he's also got a caucus that is much trumpier than the Senate.

[257] Mm -hmm.

[258] There are a lot of House Republicans who are from districts where Donald Trump remains very popular, and he is trying to maintain his leadership role while also condemning the behavior and not allowing President Trump in his post -presidency to continue to galvanize the Republican Party the way he has in the past.

[259] And this is very different in tone and tenor than Matt Gates or Jim Jordan, but at the end of the day, it's hard not to see all of them as a kind of collective finding a way to defend the president against the most dire consequences of a very deadly event that, by all accounts, the president played a clear role in triggering.

[260] That's exactly right.

[261] At the end of the day, Republicans as a caucus were a bulwark against this impeachment.

[262] So who were those Republicans besides Liz Cheney who said that they were willing in their speeches to vote to impeach?

[263] Thank you, Mr. Jordan.

[264] Madam Speaker, this is a sad day.

[265] our republic.

[266] But not as sad or disheartening as the violence we witnessed in the Capitol last Wednesday.

[267] We are all responsible.

[268] For those who signaled that they were going to vote in support of the article impeachment were Congressman Dan Newhouse of Washington State.

[269] These articles of impeachment are flawed.

[270] And he still criticized the articles of impeachment, said they were flawed, but that he would not use process as an excuse.

[271] There is no excuse for President Trump's actions.

[272] that there was no excuse for the president's actions.

[273] That is why with a heavy heart, and clear resolve, I will vote yes on these articles of impeachment.

[274] And then there was his colleague from Washington, Jamie Herrera Butler.

[275] My fellow Americans, I rise today to stand against our enemy, and to clarify our enemy isn't the president or the president -elect.

[276] Fear is our enemy.

[277] And she asked what her colleagues were afraid of.

[278] I'm afraid of what people will say or think.

[279] I'm afraid of being devalued.

[280] I'm not afraid of losing my job, but I am afraid that my country will fail.

[281] And she said that her vote for impeaching the sitting president was not fear -based.

[282] I am not choosing a side.

[283] I'm choosing truth.

[284] It's the only way to defeat fear.

[285] That it was the only way to defeat fear.

[286] Maggie, the most senior Republican to call for impeachment, whose statement you read at the beginning of this conversation, Liz Cheney, She did not speak on Wednesday from the floor.

[287] She was silent.

[288] And I wonder why you think that was.

[289] What I think, and this is my guess, based on the way caucus politics works and the way that politics in general works, is it's a lot safer to put out a paper statement than to have a video like that of yourself giving that speech that will be used over and over again against you.

[290] So I think in the same way that Congresswoman Butler was asking her colleagues what they were afraid of in not voting to support the impeachment articles.

[291] I think even though Liz Cheney did support them, there is still some fear of the future associated with doing so.

[292] All time for debate has expired.

[293] Pursuant to House Resolution 41.

[294] The previous question is ordered on the resolution.

[295] So after this two -hour debate, the votes were cast.

[296] Say aye.

[297] Those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it.

[298] It was 232 in support of the article's impeachment, 197 against.

[299] And 10 of those in support were Republicans.

[300] Which was less than, I suppose, the White House feared, but still 10 Republicans.

[301] It was less than the White House feared.

[302] It was still 10 more Republicans than voted for impeachment.

[303] the first time against President Trump a little over a year ago.

[304] And that is a sign that his vice -like grip on the party as he is leaving the White House at his own hand a diminished figure that vice -like grip has loosened somewhat.

[305] So what happens now with this article of impeachment?

[306] How quickly will it head to the Senate?

[307] How quickly do we expect a trial to start?

[308] It's not entirely clear, Mike.

[309] because Mitch McConnell has said he is not going to bring the Senate back this week for a speedy trial before President Trump leaves office.

[310] So that leaves it at the feet of incoming majority leader Chuck Schumer.

[311] At this moment, is there a belief based on the defections in the House, which tends to be more conservative than the Senate in the Republican Party, that there will be enough Republican votes to convict President Trump?

[312] It's too early to say, Michael, and a lot of it, will depend on what the president does in the coming days.

[313] If he continues to make inflammatory statements, he is guaranteeing there will be more Republicans who vote against him.

[314] But if he is quiet and doesn't cause further damage to himself and to them, there might be fewer votes than the White House feared right now.

[315] But a major question is what Mitch McConnell does.

[316] He has said he's open to voting to convict, not in those words, but that was the thrust of his statement.

[317] And that is dangerous for President Trump because Mitch McConnell has been his protector in many ways over the last four years.

[318] You began to hint at this, the president's behavior.

[319] What was he doing on Wednesday during this vote?

[320] So he was at the White House while this vote was taking place, following it along, watching some coverage and recording a video from the Oval Office.

[321] I want to speak to you tonight about the troubling events of the past week.

[322] It was a four -minute video from behind the resolute desk.

[323] I want to be very clear.

[324] I unequivocally condemned the violence that we saw last week.

[325] He urged his supporters not to engage in violence next week.

[326] Mob violence goes against everything I believe in and everything our movement stands for.

[327] No true supporter of mine could ever endorse political violence.

[328] He insisted he condemns violence of any kind.

[329] Mob violence was his specific phrase.

[330] Like all of you, I was shocked and deeply saddened by the calamity at the Capitol last week.

[331] He did not mention the five people who died at the Capitol.

[332] We have seen too many riots, too many mobs, too many acts of intimidation and destruction.

[333] it must stop.

[334] He did not mention that he had just been impeached.

[335] Those who engaged in the attacks last week will be brought to justice.

[336] And he did not mention President -elect Joe Biden, but he did say that people who engage in violence, as we saw last week, are quote -unquote, attacking Trump movement.

[337] If you do any of these things, you are not supporting our movement.

[338] You are attacking it.

[339] And you are attacking our country.

[340] We cannot tolerate it.

[341] And that was the first.

[342] furthest that he has gone since Wednesday's violence.

[343] Let us choose to move forward united for the good of our families, our communities, and our country.

[344] Thank you.

[345] God bless you.

[346] And God bless America.

[347] The video was in some ways for an audience of one, and that audience of one is Mitch McConnell to try to keep him from convicting and supporting any effort to further curtail President Trump politically.

[348] It was also taped because the president's advisors have repeatedly warned him he could have legal exposure related to what took place last week.

[349] Now, not everyone agrees at the extent if there is any of that legal exposure, but that is one of the few things that President Trump in his life responds to.

[350] And he did today.

[351] Maggie, what you just said really struck me because when we talk of an audience of one over these past four years, it has always meant Republicans speaking to the president.

[352] And perhaps it's a testament to the president's political fortunes in this moment that when you said audience of one, it was the president speaking to Mitch McConnell.

[353] That power dynamic has changed.

[354] The power dynamic has changed dramatically.

[355] the world has shifted under President Trump's feet very fast, again at his own hand, but he does not control others the way he once did and he wants to make sure that Mitch McConnell does not move more forcefully against him.

[356] Well, thank you, Maggie.

[357] We appreciate it.

[358] Thank you.

[359] Thank you, Michael.

[360] We'll be right back.

[361] Here's what else you need to know today.

[362] On Wednesday, FBI urged police chiefs across the country to be on high alert for extremist activity in the coming days following the attack on the Capitol.

[363] In a call with police chiefs, the director of the FBI warned of potential attacks on state capitals, federal buildings, and the homes of members of Congress.

[364] And the United States has set a new single -day death record in the pandemic.

[365] 4 ,406 people on January 12.

[366] That exceeds the number of Americans who died during the attack on Pearl Harbor, or the Battle of Antietam, the deadliest battle of the Civil War.

[367] Vaccinations remain slow.

[368] So far, about 10 million people have received their first dose, far short of the government's goal of 20 million by January 1st.

[369] Today's episode was produced by Rachel Quester, Astha Chatharvedi, Michael Simon Johnson, and Claire Tennis Getter.

[370] It was edited by Lisa Chow, Paige Cowett and Lisa Tobin, and engineered by Chris Wood.

[371] That's it for the daily.

[372] I'm Michael Babaro.

[373] See you tomorrow.