#579 - Rory MacDonald

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan, experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night.

[3] All day.

[4] You may recognize this man as the voice saying the Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[5] You might know him from the UFC, one of the top welterweight contenders in the world.

[6] You might know him from Meta Morris, which is probably the premier grappling event in North America.

[7] We just competed this past weekend.

[8] Roy McDonald, ladies and gentlemen.

[9] What's up, buddy?

[10] Not much, man. Thanks for doing this.

[11] So you're in town.

[12] You did some competing at Meta Morris against J .T. Torres, who's a top -level Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu competitor.

[13] Really good.

[14] And that's unusual that a guy who's in your position, who's a top Walterway contender in M .MA, decides to test himself in Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu.

[15] Why did you decide to do that?

[16] I think I want to test myself in as many martial arts as I can.

[17] That's why I kind of got into it and why I started.

[18] fighting you know the whole competitive and testing my martial arts skill against someone else at the highest level you know so uh metamoros was a great setup i like the rules the concept of it so i asked if i could be a part of it and you know all worked out oh that's cool so you approach them yeah yeah that's interesting man you metamoros if for folks who don't know the idea behind it is they don't have any points which i like yeah i like that um i almost kind of wish they had no time limit you know like the time limit is kind of like real jiujitsu like when you talk to like hoist or you talk to you know alio back in the day they would they would say you know that especially in mixed martial arts they need time like they're all about just a war of attrition just slowly but surely keeping a pace on a guy until he makes a mistake and then you eventually catch them but a lot of the metamoros matches like yours go to draw because after 20 minute time limit for yours yeah they go to 20 minute time limit and if no one has submitted each other it winds up being a draw but you guys were both going for it it was only a draw because the time right now I mean you were you attacked with a leg lock that got pretty close he attacked with Camorra I mean it was a pretty wild fast -paced match yeah there was a lot that happened if there was points he would have definitely beat me but you know like you were saying it's it's it's nice to have no points so you can maybe you're more comfortable working on the side control on the bottom rather than guard or buttering guard so you're not too worried about letting him pass right or getting mount or something you know so like if you've seen um gary tonin he lets guys mount him just yeah leg lock him right like i train with that guy i won't mount him because you know it's so i like the what does he do does he do the legs over the top uh how does he does he does like a kipping uh thing with his legs so he'll get his hips underneath of you then he'll he'll uh what the Ashtagammy and take the leg.

[19] So he goes sideways?

[20] He almost does it 180 and takes the leg.

[21] Huh.

[22] Yeah.

[23] If you watch the match, you'll see him do it.

[24] There's a lot of guys that are coming up with all these wild techniques now.

[25] I was just watching some, Jeff Glover has some crazy new technique where he goes from being caught inside control to a heel hook.

[26] Like he was demonstrating it.

[27] But it's just, the beautiful thing about Jiu -Jitsu, one of the most amazing things about Jiu -Jitsu, is it seems.

[28] seems to be constantly changing and evolving.

[29] Like, MMA is evolving and changing constantly, and MMA is constantly incorporating techniques that we already knew worked in martial arts, like whether it's Maitai techniques or Taekwondo techniques, and you're seeing all these being introduced into MMA, but we're not seeing, like, new striking techniques.

[30] The techniques have kind of been around for a long time.

[31] Whereas with Jiu -Jitsu, it seems like a constant, it never ends.

[32] yeah if you're away for like five months you're behind the ball big time because there's so much going on all the time isn't that weird yeah it's a crazy sport but it's exciting it's so exciting to be a part of well it's one of my favorite uh martial arts because i just think that it's there's a lot of good things about it where um first of all it's the martial art where a small person can beat a big person because when you watch like a bruceley movie and you see some little guy just throwing flying kicks and knocking out all these big dudes.

[33] The reality of it is that there's a reason for weight classes, and one of the big reasons is, like, for striking and for just overwhelming someone, weight classes are important.

[34] But I've seen time and time again smaller guys submit bigger guys in Jiu -Jitsu, and that was the whole thing that was so impressive about Hoys Gracie in the early days of the UFC.

[35] Since they didn't know Jiu -Jitsu, he was submitting guys that were way bigger and stronger than him.

[36] Yeah, yeah, that's the great thing about Jiu -Jitsu.

[37] when I started I was a tiny little kid smaller than average when I first started at martial arts and that's why I took to Jiu -Jitsu so fast because I was able to neutralize or even beat bigger guys Yeah which doesn't really I mean you very rarely see that in kickboxing A guy has to be like way better Yeah they can overwhelm you with their power And size and smother you right Like Bob Sap versus Ernesto Hoost It's a perfect example If you've never seen that match Jamie, pull that up so people I don't know if that'll get us Pulled from YouTube That's our If Whenever we say pulled from YouTube People are taking shots now They're going to die We'll pull it up so you get a People Well if you've If you listen into this Just Google Bob Sap versus Ernesto Hoost And what Ernesto Huss was Former K1 Grand Prix champion One of the most technical kickboxers Ever in the history of kickboxing he was just uh and he's actually fighting again now which is pretty incredible but he was just uh an amazing technical kickboxer and uh he embodied that dutch style of kickboxing very strong low kicks really good boxing and he fought this guy named bob sap who was a former football player who was 99 % steroids i mean he literally i mean as juice to the tits as a person you get he was 350 pounds with abs and doesn't even look like a real person like when you see him you're like that can't be real he's so big and all he did was just overwhelm ernesto hoot just push him into the corner and just kind of donkey con him yeah not much technique there no very little it's all just size and mass and i mean even the way he's throwing his punches he's just winging his punches and he's one of the few guys that Fado Emilienenko allegedly passed on fighting he didn't want to fight him he just said listen come on stop because when Fado was the heavyweight champion he fought big guys he fought semi shilt he fought that that giant Korean dude what was his name the guy was literally a giant remember that guy he fought big guys you know in a small ring it's not ideal for a more technical guy right so you could just get pushed up against the ropes and you can't do anything there so sap eventually goes down from i think a leg kick or a left hook to the body he got hit with something but to his credit he got up and i think it was leg kicks arresto hoose is just so beautiful in his technique but he was being outweighed by about 150 pounds but he's not a small guy either no i mean he's a heavyweight and uh that's just an example of the difference between like say jujitsu and kickboxing because if this was like hicks and gracy in his prime versus bob sap and it was just a jiu jitsu match he would eventually get him he would hang on to him yeah so it was a leg kick that dropped him it looks like he was never good at taking damage bob sap no he was not well he you know he had a relatively short time in fighting and then along the way what he did was he you know kind of just started taking dives like he would get hit Yeah, I mean, he'd sell the fights and, you know, make a big hype out of it.

[38] And then somewhere along the line, he just kind of, you know, would get hit and then he would go down in a fetal position.

[39] But I think they stopped the fight right here.

[40] Like, he goes down.

[41] It's incredible.

[42] Anyway, we don't have to watch the rest of it, but it's the best example of the difference between jujitsu and, say, kickboxing or striking where the size can make a pretty big difference.

[43] Because skill -wise, I mean, you're dealing with like a blue belt there versus a black belt in Ernesto Hoos.

[44] Jiu -Jitsu is also this martial art where leverage and technique and positions, it seems to be like this continual flow of techniques.

[45] Like you've never learned enough, you've never gotten good enough.

[46] And even guys who have been around at a long time, when they stop learning and they stop applying new techniques to their game, You see them get beaten by young guys that have all these new techniques.

[47] They're just not familiar with the positions.

[48] Right.

[49] Yeah.

[50] The jih Tjitsu now is definitely a lot different.

[51] You know, when I go to New York and train at Henzos, there's always something new that catches me by surprise for the first day or two, you know, and I have to make sure that I'm watching out for that.

[52] So, you know, even I get caught in it every second month going down there, you know?

[53] Yeah, there's no, I mean, and Henzo has just a fucking lines den of killers down there, too.

[54] It's like a room of blackbells.

[55] Have you gone to Tenth Planet at all?

[56] Have you trained down there with Eddie?

[57] No, but I'd like to, for sure.

[58] I'll set it up.

[59] Let me know when you want to go.

[60] He'll help you.

[61] I actually leg dragged him in the hall of Metamorphous.

[62] Did you?

[63] He's got a back problem right now.

[64] Oh, really?

[65] That probably didn't help it.

[66] No, no, he's got, he's dealing with some back spasms.

[67] He's, you know, he works his guard so much.

[68] It's like so lower back, intensive.

[69] So he's doing a lot of rehab stuff.

[70] We were talking about this before the show, but that is a big issue with fighters is, like, back injuries.

[71] It's one of the most difficult to overcome because so many guys get them and then their skill level deteriorates.

[72] Whereas, like, if you get a knee injury, he gets surgery on it.

[73] Like, George St. Pierre came back.

[74] It's better than ever.

[75] You know, the guys can come back from knee surgery.

[76] Connor McGregor, better than ever.

[77] Right.

[78] Yeah, I, I, constantly have to be keeping up with my back maintenance like i had to pull out of a fight because of a neck problem so my neck and back is a constant thing that i have to watch and have therapy done on two three times a week you know what kind of therapy do you do uh massage and osteo all the time it doesn't stop for me or else i just like stiffen up and i'm like yes you know with the amount a training i'm doing but i i like to do like a warm up and a cool down before every single training session with different exercises to like activate my muscles in my back uh stretching it uh um i do a lot of planks like just like planking exercise that's pretty good for my back as well um that machine you just showed me in the back reverse hyper yeah we have one of those at try star i should probably start using that a lot more than that thing's incredible Incredible.

[79] That thing's incredible.

[80] It was created by this guy Louis Simmons, who's this powerlifting legend, who's like, I think he's 67 or something crazy like that.

[81] He's just fucking enormous dude who still deadlifts, some insane amount of weight.

[82] And he injured his back.

[83] They were going to do surgery.

[84] They wanted to fuse his discs, and he wouldn't let him.

[85] And he figured out a way to make a machine that actively decompresses your spine and strengthens it in the same time.

[86] It's very difficult to describe the motion.

[87] So if anybody's interested, if you have.

[88] any sort of a back injury Google reverse hyper and I got mine from Rogue Fitness but there's a couple companies that sell them including West Side Barbell which is Louis Simmons company but he invented it it's an amazing thing but for fighters just a giant tool to strengthen your core and build up your spinal column they can see him he's like fucking 70 in this picture he's an enormous dude but the the maintenance and um the uh physical therapy and all that stuff how do you schedule that in do you have someone who does your schedule as far as like your you do everything strength and conditioning all your stuff yeah how do you organize it just over time it just like you kind of you know i've been at try star for like seven years now so like over time you kind of figure out what to take away what to put in on that day and see what works out so it's just a gradual progression of learning and where things fit in on certain days.

[89] Do you keep a journal, like a training journal?

[90] No. Just all in your head?

[91] Yeah.

[92] Now, when you're preparing for a fight, say if you have a big fight coming up, like your last fight with Tarek Safedin, and you're concentrating on a guy who's a kickboxer, do you go more kickboxing heavy?

[93] Do you do...

[94] No, not really.

[95] It's...

[96] I kind of just...

[97] I kind of just go with my gut feeling or what I feel like I want to do at that period.

[98] time um i've lately i've been doing a lot of jihitsu um i've just been feeling excited about it so i follow that excitement you know sometimes i like i really feel like doing a lot of kickboxing so i i find that my schedule is not completely kickboxing but it dominates the week mostly you're one of the few guys that's come along in m mma you're like the new crop guys who didn't have a background wrestling you didn't have a background karate you're you're just from the beginning you started in mixed martial arts yeah yeah I started at 14 out of Toshito mixed martial arts in Colonna and I was just lucky enough to stumble upon an MMA gym for my first martial arts gym so that's just how it all came about I guess it was just a blessing you know you're you're not the type of guy like if I didn't know you you know if I met you You know, I was saying normal, peaceful dudes, seems pretty, you know, like, you meet certain dudes, and they got this, like, like, you've met Josh Barnett.

[99] You're like, yeah, I could see that guy being a fire.

[100] He's a little fucking intense, a little high -strung.

[101] Yeah, yeah.

[102] You're, like, very mellow and, like, even keeled.

[103] I like to be, yeah, for sure.

[104] Yeah.

[105] Is that on purpose, or is this just your personality naturally?

[106] I think naturally it is.

[107] But then there's the other side, too, right?

[108] Where everyone calls me fucking psycho.

[109] Yeah.

[110] Well, a lot of people were wondering, like, what the fuck does this dude actually like?

[111] Because, like, pull up that, this is fucking the death stare, the Roy McDonald's death stare.

[112] Where did, is this?

[113] Where's this coming from, man?

[114] Like, is that, is that just natural?

[115] Yeah.

[116] Like, this death stare that you have when you fight.

[117] Are you aware of it?

[118] I'm just in the zone, I guess.

[119] You're not even blinking, dude.

[120] Yeah, well, when I was fighting Terrick, you know, he, I caught him, like, just staring at me when I was coming in, and it kind of made me, like, I don't know what the best way to say.

[121] It's kind of like alpha male.

[122] Like I was just like you're like we were fighting for our territory.

[123] So we were just like, you know, like a couple of dogs staring down at each other before we were about to fight.

[124] I don't know.

[125] It kind of felt like that.

[126] Some guys avoid that.

[127] You know, Boss Rutan used to avoid eye contact.

[128] He didn't make eye contact.

[129] It doesn't bother me either way.

[130] Like I don't think me staring at them is going to make me win the fight.

[131] Right, right, right.

[132] It has nothing to do with it.

[133] I totally believe in skill over any of the cycle.

[134] psychological battles or, you know, being bigger or smaller, but I guess it's, uh, it just, it just happens.

[135] It just happens and you just go with it, the same thing.

[136] You just like, fuck this.

[137] I'm staring them down.

[138] Yeah.

[139] I'm not going to, I'm not going to look away and make me feel like I'm a bitch.

[140] That's a weird moment, though, right?

[141] Yeah, it is awkward, I guess, but.

[142] When you get into the octagon, you know, regardless on, you know, who you're fighting, like, how important the fight is do you have like a routine that you go through mentally do you have like a preparation that you go through no if anything i'm just thinking about techniques in my head but sometimes i'm not thinking about anything i just can't wait to they ring that bell because they make you wait for so long anyway right is that the hardest part is the anticipation not really kind of used to it by now has it become like as you've fought more and more guys higher and higher level has become like more and more like relaxed to you or more normal yeah it's normal especially when you're fighting like like i've been real busy the last year or two so it's every fight now seems like it's just like it's i remember this feeling right yeah that's big right yeah it is that's why you see a guy like dominic cruz it's out for three years it makes his fight even more impressive when he just yeah he fought mitsugaki yeah steamrolled him yeah he did do it very well incredible fucking look better than he's ever looked yeah when you see a guy like that though um you know you're making a living off of your body i mean you make a living with your body meaning and your goals are predicated on the health of your body and you see like a guy like dominic cruz who tore his ACL and then he tore his hamstring and tore his ACL again i mean he had a lot fucking series of serious fucking injuries like shit almost three years out right does that freak you you see shit like that yeah yeah that would suck uh i guess uh i guess yeah i just hope to god that never happens to me yeah yeah that's that's a massive hurdle to overcome props to him for coming back yeah and yeah and that guy but he's good too he's very good he's very good he's he's like the bar setter when it comes to footwork and movement when you see a guy like that who runs into such an a massive hurdle like a three -year absence from the sport like that does that make you change your preparation anyway or be a little bit more cautious or be a little bit more diligent about strength and conditioning or rehab or anything like that no it is like other people's lives don't really influence mine i just i just uh i feel like i go with the flow a lot you know if uh you know if i see something that would be beneficial to me then I'll do it or if I'm I want to go a certain direction in my martial arts career then I'm going to go that I don't care if it didn't work out so well for that guy I'm going to go down that path you know I follow my instincts and my excitement it's such a fascinating way to pursue a goal in life you know to pursue a goal of becoming a champion mixed martial arts fighter there's so few people that you can kind of like figure out how to do it from maybe it's like best that you have this mentality just figure out yourself you can't fear you can't let fear into your life you know or else it's just going to take over right and you know just because this guy hurt his knee and was out for three years shouldn't stop me from going and and fighting for what i want right maybe you could be you could take some precautions but and do things a little bit smarter but now when you say things like you can't let fear into your life or into your mind do you actively try to block that out is this like something that you work on yeah i would say so yeah it's like i guess the best example is is just going into a fight like you see some guys are terrified and it works for them like george right right right but i'm not scared at all like i'm nervous i definitely have nerves i'm not going to lie about that you know the anticipation of it and i think it's natural to just your body just knows what it's about to go do but i'm not going to fear what i'm going to take it head on and i'm going to conquer it so when george would fight he would have like some serious nerves yeah he's terrified it's so funny it's crazy when you think he's you know best welterweight ever yeah yeah it's crazy like all week before his fight he just won't stop talking about how scared he is really it's just it's really funny actually but why is he dwell on it i don't know it's just it's just how he prepares for fights and it's interesting i don't i don't relate to it at all it's he's a fascinating guy because he'll tell everyone what his fears are tell everyone what his weaknesses are it's almost like he's setting himself up to have to overcome those things yeah i don't know why he does that because he performed so well i mean he has all it's like traditionally like if you would tell someone like what's the best thing to concentrate on concentrate on positive things focus on the positive but then you look at george and the achievements that he's been able to to you know make and the you know he's the greatest welterweight of all time yeah maybe it makes it that much more impressive you know that he you know he has all these fears and he overcomes them he forces himself to push through that anyway well what's interesting well what's interesting with george is just a couple different versions of george just like the play it safe george is to try to win george and then there's a georgia that was legitimately fucking pissed off like you know what i mean like when he fought matt sarah the second time yeah yeah legitimately pissed off but i think like matt sarah as a person didn't bother him as much no bj did bj got under his skin like i remember like when bj was telling him that he was going to be fighting to the death yeah and you know you could see george's like you motherfucker or talking all this crazy shit you know calling him you can't help but let some of that stuff like bug you right yeah but it seemed like that was like one of his most impressive performances like he wasn't just trying to win that fight he was trying to beat the fuck out of beat yeah you know what I mean it was like a different thing yeah but it also has to do I think with the skill level of your opponent um and in the style of fight the way the fight's going you know I don't think George intentionally tries to play it safe, he's constantly fighting the best guy in the world for 10 years in a row.

[143] Because he's the champ, right?

[144] So it's the next guy at his best, peaking for the most important moment in his martial arts career.

[145] He's got to fight that guy for 10 years or however long he held that belt in a row.

[146] People don't really take that into equation.

[147] You know, he's always got to be the best in the world, you know?

[148] Yeah, people always say that.

[149] like oh he hasn't finished anybody like look at the fuck people he's fighting and not just that they're at their best yeah they're not just training for another fight this is the their moment yeah so yeah it's it's quite impressive and it's i think people forget about that sometimes it is and you know what is what was equally impressive was that he had the the awareness to step away to say you know what i just need to take a break yeah you know and there's been talk about him returning and i know he's starting to train again and he's training and enjoying it and he's not making any decisions but i appreciate the fact that with all the money that's on the line all the money that he could potentially be earning all the pressure to get him to fight again that he had the presence of mine to go you know what let me just step back yeah yeah i think it's just a part of knowing yourself and i think it's important like the guy has no life if you get if you've seen how this guy trains you'd be blown away i'd never met anyone who trains that hard really yeah he's like he's got oCD so it's like everything has to be perfect and this training is like he can't miss a day even if he's exhausted or you know he's feeling like shit like the guy is just a workhorse that's what it takes right it's for some guys for me not so much no i tried doing that and it just didn't work for me that's interesting yeah so you you have your own protocol like you decide yeah i go with how i'm feeling i think after metamoros you know i've been here for a couple days now and i could have went training but i felt like crap i'm sore my arm hurts you so i'm right i'm chilling and then tomorrow probably i'll go training because it'll be i'll be into it you know and then i'll be excited to train you know and i'll get the most of that training session i'll be aware i'll be listening to the guys around me and i'll be i'll take as much as i can out of that training session and feel good about it and for me personally i feel like my skills increase more that way when i go to the gym like like uh strict two to two days you know every single day my body breaks down and i'm at the training session i'm like uh i don't care about what anyone says you know i'm just getting through it rather than taking part on it you know i've had conversations with many trainers about this and one of the things that a lot of people are in agreement is that there's an unrealistic expectation about what your body can go through that may be based on a lot of guys who use drugs a lot of guys who use performance enhancing drugs like there's guys who will tell you they're training three times a day seven days a week and yeah if you're doing that if they are doing that they have to be taking some shit I have no idea how how anyone could like my body is dying you know after a half a week at training once a day yeah you know so i don't know how these guys do that man it's it blows my mind i just i just stay away from it well the demands of mma are so different than any other sport because you're essentially learning three major sports you know yeah you're learning striking you're learning kickboxing you're learning wrestling and you're learning jiu -jitsu i mean there's three of them together and you're incorporating them with strategy and in different positions intertwining them yeah fucking crazy different combinations like look at john jones you can yeah just he's so he's like an artist out there you know yes yeah so yeah intertwining them too is it's like an art of its own yeah it's such a all -encompassing sort of a competition which is why a guy like george with oCD a guy who just is training constantly and relentlessly is why excels in this because he can ramp it to a point where a lot of people just can't keep up with him it works for him yeah it works for him did you try when you first came to try star seven years ago um you were a guy who i mean how old are you now 25 so you were fucking god damn 18 you were 18 when you came to try star and so you were doing well you were you know you were starting to uh to fight and you're starting to excel in your techniques you just realized i need to go to where the best gym in the country is yeah i i'd come down there to visit uh when i wasn't fighting or you know just to get a week in a training with the guys and you know just see what another gym was like because i've only been at one gym train with those people right so i wanted to explore martial arts a little bit and uh the amount of talent talent there and the technical approach there, I felt that I could really excel with that.

[150] Yeah, for us a hobby, I was hoping that he was going to be able to make it in here, but he's got some family obligations.

[151] Did he have a daughter?

[152] I love that dude.

[153] Fascinating guy.

[154] Yeah.

[155] And one of the best coaches, like he's got, the one thing that drives me crazy is when I listen to coaches in between rounds and they just say nonsense.

[156] Like, you got to get after him.

[157] You got to knock him out.

[158] Like, get out there.

[159] I remember one of BJ's fights.

[160] It was like, you've got to get him, BJ, do it helo style or something.

[161] They were saying like some crazy shit.

[162] I was like, does he have anybody in there that can give him some fucking technical advice?

[163] Yeah, that's crazy.

[164] Like, tell him what is going wrong.

[165] Step off to the left, you know, change levels.

[166] Do something.

[167] You got to give him some.

[168] I understand that approach in some situations if the guy's just sleeping.

[169] Right.

[170] And he's just not willing to work.

[171] You got to wake him up.

[172] But for me, I need someone to.

[173] give me the technical advice right because i'm in there fighting trying to figure this puzzle you know and and fraz and john donahur do a really excellent job with giving me those those pieces of the puzzle right yeah donahur's another guy an unheralded brilliant guy yeah love talking to yeah he's a he's a smart guy he was a guy that i want to talking to i worked out with george once we worked out on spitting back kick technique yeah i've seen that doing it through donahur because Don Hurk came to me, and he said, he's like, I need to find someone who has got a, and, you know, we wind up talking about spinning back kick technique, and then I worked out with George, but he talked to John, and he's just this weird, quiet encyclopedia of information when it comes to martial arts.

[174] He's got a very unique approach.

[175] Yeah.

[176] It's, yeah, he's an incredible guy.

[177] He's a brilliant dude.

[178] Yeah.

[179] Really unheralded.

[180] Like, I don't think people in the business understand.

[181] Yeah, he's not into it for the media or the attention.

[182] At all.

[183] He's just.

[184] He's so, he has such a deep passion for martial arts and finding out how to beat another person.

[185] It's just genius.

[186] I heard his skill level on the mat is incredible too.

[187] Yeah.

[188] And the way he teaches, too, like the things he's coming up with is just so cutting edge.

[189] What a mind.

[190] That's a big part of success in MMA, isn't it?

[191] Surrounding yourself with great training partners and having minds like that as coaches.

[192] Yeah, for a coach, you need someone just as dedicated on the other side of the fence as you are doing the physical work, you know, because, you know, you need that skill.

[193] You need to be able to take the skill from them and put it into your physical training, right?

[194] Right, yeah.

[195] That's what Dwayne Ludwig brought to Team Alpha Man, and you see what a massive impact that's happened.

[196] Yeah, yeah.

[197] Because he's just as crazy about coaching.

[198] as those guys are about fighting.

[199] I mean, if you ever meet Dwayne, he's got just notebooks and fucking stacks of shit that he's, you know, into and he's constantly revising his, the routines and the drills that he runs guys through and sizing things up.

[200] Like, when T .J. Dillshaw beat Hennon Barrow, I had lunch with Ludwig that day, and Dwayne's, you ever talked to Dwayne?

[201] No, really?

[202] He's a maniac.

[203] Like, he talked to him.

[204] He's talking a million miles and hours.

[205] What's going to do it a little while?

[206] He's like, one of those dudes.

[207] And he's like, what we're going to do?

[208] He's got to step off to the left.

[209] You got to make sure that when Borrell attacks, he attacks, he overcommittees.

[210] He stays flat foot.

[211] He does this.

[212] What TJ's going to do is going to do a lot of faint.

[213] His mind is just going to go in a thousand.

[214] He's just redlining constantly.

[215] And he essentially blueprinted exactly what was going to happen in the fight.

[216] He explained to me exactly what was going to happen in the fight.

[217] And T .J. and him have such a close relationship that it was just one of those situations where the right coach met the right student and the student is a sponge.

[218] And he just listens to everything Duane says.

[219] You know, what's really funny about it is.

[220] We were talking about this during one of the fight podcasts is that, you know who doesn't fight the way Dwayne teaches?

[221] Dwayne.

[222] Oh, yeah.

[223] He never fought like that.

[224] He's not like Captain Footwork.

[225] No, no, he's not.

[226] No. Precision puncher.

[227] Precision puncher, precision kicker, excellent Muay.

[228] But he wasn't that, like, crazy footwork dude.

[229] Move too much.

[230] No. Not too much.

[231] It's weird.

[232] Yeah.

[233] But he teaches TJ, and it's perfect.

[234] It's almost like, do as I say, not as I do.

[235] Yeah, yeah.

[236] Or maybe his body didn't work that way, or maybe he didn't need to, or he had a different approach.

[237] Right.

[238] But he's doing good work out there.

[239] Yeah, he really is.

[240] I'm amazed.

[241] I mean, it's one of the things that's most exciting to me about MMA is the differences in approach as far as, like, different coaches and the results.

[242] Because nobody really knows exactly what the right way to do it is.

[243] And it's different for you, you said, as it is for George.

[244] It's probably different for T .J. than it is for, like, Joseph Benavides.

[245] Like, everybody has their own approach, and it's just a matter of figuring it all out and working it all out.

[246] And there's so many variables.

[247] It's just so endlessly fascinating to me. It is.

[248] Yeah, it's crazy.

[249] There's so many new guys, too.

[250] It's so exciting right now.

[251] Yeah.

[252] The amount of new talent coming out.

[253] and the new like you look at Ronda Rousey Connor McGregor these guys are so different than what we've seen like five years ago it's great no one was using judo throws like Ronda is no one's crazy or Hector, even my Hector used it's been really well too Hector does very well You know Lombard versus Jake Shields was a judo exhibition Yeah that was pretty crazy That was a dominant fight Yeah he's a motherfucker Now when you see a guy like Lombard and you see a fight like that with Jake Shields Does that get you excited about fighting them?

[254] Yeah Yeah, you can tell Yeah, he's going to be fun to fight for sure.

[255] I'm excited about fighting him.

[256] And you were excited about fighting Tyron Woodley, who's another powerful, explosive guy.

[257] Powerful guy.

[258] You know, I felt like my technique could overcome, you know, his physical, you know, obviously you look at me and you look at him.

[259] He's physically superior, you know?

[260] Like, he's an athlete, like, just cut out of stone.

[261] And I felt like it was exciting for me to see, you know, all the skill that I've, skill work I've done over the years to overcome a bigger, stronger, faster opponent.

[262] You know, because I was never that guy.

[263] I'm an athletic guy.

[264] But when I started martial arts, I was a little puke.

[265] You know, I got beat up by bigger kids or, you know, so it's kind of, it was a cool thing for me, especially to be in Vancouver to fight a guy like that and use my skill to, like, you know, solve this puzzle, you know, the bigger, faster, stronger guy.

[266] No, that was a beautiful fight.

[267] It was a beautiful fight, and that was a fight that you really kind of shut him down in a weird way.

[268] Like, he really didn't have an answer.

[269] He didn't know what to do.

[270] Yeah, he was waiting for a certain thing.

[271] Yeah.

[272] And I also love how you use that high elbow to block the right hand.

[273] That's interesting.

[274] That's a little used technique.

[275] Yeah.

[276] Is that for us?

[277] Yeah.

[278] The Philly Shell was used in the olden days when gloves were around.

[279] for blocking headshots because the bigger gloves now in boxing, you can just go like this.

[280] Right, you put your hands up to your ears.

[281] But now with our gloves, or no gloves, this doesn't really stop anything.

[282] It still hurts like hell.

[283] Your temple is exposed a lot.

[284] Your jaw line back here is exposed a lot.

[285] Your fist can fit through these little spaces now because there's not a huge pillow.

[286] Not a huge pillar, but a bigger pillow to absorb that impact.

[287] So they started using the filly shell and using elbows and forearms and your tricep to fill in those holes against just bare knuckle.

[288] So I felt that it would be useful to me. Yeah, it's interesting when you go back and you look at like old school boxing matches.

[289] When they had little tiny gloves, I could look at some of the like the Jack Dempsey fights.

[290] Like, they were, they were fighting with almost like little bag gloves.

[291] Yeah, they just had, like, leather over their hands.

[292] Yeah.

[293] Yeah.

[294] But which is very similar to MMA gloves.

[295] Yeah.

[296] What do you think about no gloves?

[297] I like it.

[298] Do you like that better?

[299] I think about that all the time, because I'm like, why is it okay to shin kick a guy in the head?

[300] Why is it okay to knee a guy in the head, elbow guy in head?

[301] But you have to protect your knuckles.

[302] Like, is that some leftover holdout stuff from boxing?

[303] Yeah, it could be.

[304] The idea that you need pads.

[305] And maybe just for the media, too.

[306] Right.

[307] You know, we need to have rounds.

[308] We need to have rules and gloves and some kind of protection so that the mainstream media can accept it as a sport.

[309] But, yeah, the raw UFC first fights, you know, that was the real deal.

[310] But it seems contradictory to me because how come you, like Edson Barbosa, Terry Edomore, wheel kicks him in the head.

[311] someone that's heel i mean that is the hardest part of your body you're walking around on it all the time you could take your heel and walk up to a wall and stomp the wall yeah anybody could do that well you could take a little kid they could stomp the wall take a little kid and tell them to go punch the wall yeah it'll hurt like it hurts everybody like you can't do it yeah and it seems to me that it's very unrealistic to wrap up the hands tape up the wrists because that's an issue as well the the the wrist move you know and you have this unrealistic expectation of how you could just sort of tee off on people and brawl with them whereas if it was just bare knuckle you'd be forced to be much more precise with your punches and be much more realistic in the impact of them I think our gloves too aren't helpful for the situation I think the UFC gloves could get a little bit better in what way they're kind of like round and so they make your hand open up right you're always talking about eye pokes yeah the glove is a big reason for it right in my opinion yeah um have you tried the bellator gloves no belator has i tried the old pride gloves they were awesome you like those better oh yeah we used to have those laying around here somewhere probably have them in the back yeah the old pride gloves have more of a curve to them and if you watch the old pride is easier to make a fist and keep your and very rare that you saw eye pokes you know they um bellator is using some everlast gloves that do two things.

[312] One, it curves the fist more, keeps the fist close more.

[313] And another thing is it reinforces the metacarpal.

[314] Oh, okay.

[315] It's more padding in here where it's preventing handbrakes.

[316] Right.

[317] Which makes it thicker, which makes it harder to choke people, which probably not good.

[318] I think, like, especially for jiu -jitsu and grappling, I think it would definitely benefit people if there was no gloves.

[319] Yeah.

[320] It might even stop.

[321] The eye pokes more if there was no gloves because your hand wouldn't automatically open up.

[322] Yep, I agree with that.

[323] Yeah, I don't know if people are willing to see that, though.

[324] I don't think so.

[325] Not in mainstream media and, no, I don't think so.

[326] But how crazy is that, though?

[327] Because you get on top of a guy and you could literally smash his eyeball open with your elbow.

[328] Yeah, it's just like, I think it's people's predisposition.

[329] Like they're, you know, they need to see that.

[330] that glove or whatever, even though every other part of your body that's used as a weapon in the MMA world isn't protected and is harder.

[331] Shins and knees, you know, my God, you know.

[332] Yeah, elbows are a big, you know, they cut you.

[333] Yeah.

[334] Do you think that elbows, there's another argument that elbows shouldn't be allowed, like the strike force rules.

[335] Oh, they have to be allowed.

[336] They have to be allowed.

[337] Yeah.

[338] Because they're effective.

[339] Yeah.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Yeah, what about, I mean...

[342] I think head butts and knees on the ground need to be involved too.

[343] Really?

[344] Yeah, I would like to see that.

[345] Yeah, right?

[346] Like, how come you can punch a guy in the head, but you can't, like, smash him with your head?

[347] Like, it is a legitimate weapon.

[348] It would change...

[349] With knees on the ground to the head and head butts, it would change the dynamic of ground fighting.

[350] What about soccer kicks?

[351] Yeah, that too.

[352] But what about soccer kicks being a problem because guys get pinned up against the cage?

[353] That's the only argument that I've ever heard that makes a lot of sense to me, that they shouldn't be legal because you can get your head stuck yeah but the fight would be over pretty quick so the idea is just don't get stuck yeah don't get there yeah or pay the pay the price i wonder if any organization could ever if anybody would do it it would be japan you know yeah japan would take it deep uh who's good what one fc's got some good rules yeah yeah well they have a weird rule where they allow you like they say open fight or something like that where they Oh, yeah, the referee's discretion, they have to, like, time it or something.

[354] Yeah, that's weird.

[355] Yeah.

[356] And there's been fights, too, where it got awkward.

[357] Mm -hmm.

[358] Yeah.

[359] Yeah, I don't know about all that.

[360] Yeah, that's a bit weird.

[361] I don't know about the referee deciding, because what if you get an idiot referee, you know?

[362] Yeah.

[363] That does happen, right?

[364] There's a lot of those.

[365] There's sometimes where guys are battling for a position, and it's, like, a very important transition in a fight, and the referee will, like, be, like, yelling at them.

[366] Like, come on, you guys, you got to work.

[367] You got to work.

[368] Like, what are you watching?

[369] You're not watching a fight?

[370] These guys are fighting.

[371] And in my opinion, like, as long as guys aren't actively stalling, as long as they really are trying to get to a better position, what you're watching is an important part of grappling.

[372] That's why I'm against stand -ups.

[373] Yeah, me too.

[374] Good.

[375] That's awesome.

[376] I think it's, like, just because a guy...

[377] Let the fight play out.

[378] That's five rounds.

[379] That's where the no rounds and no time limit also plays a big part in a fight, too.

[380] Mm -hmm.

[381] yeah it should but you know i i kind of understand the idea of rounds that it makes it more exciting guys get to recover in between rounds they don't seem so exhausted but the if you're going to have rounds then i'm really against stand -ups yeah if a guy could take you down and molest you for five rounds and just hold you in place and and beat on you ben -askin style that's life yeah you gotta learn how to deal with that you got to have the technical uh skill to be able to get out of that situation.

[382] Yeah, and Ascran, I was kind of bummed out when he signed with one FC because I was like, I want to see what that guy can do in the UFC against elite guys.

[383] Yeah.

[384] Like, when he fought Douglas Lima in Bellator, I was like, holy shit.

[385] Like, he could do that to that guy.

[386] Like, Lima's a bad motherfucker.

[387] And he's pretty good.

[388] He's fucking ragged on him, man. Ascran is so goddamn good at wrestling.

[389] Yeah, he's good.

[390] It's important to have guys like that around.

[391] Yeah.

[392] You know?

[393] I think maybe UFC is worried about him beating the exciting guys and then having a boring guy around because no one likes to watch him.

[394] Maybe it's a...

[395] I do.

[396] It's a fan -friendly thing.

[397] I guess, but who knows if he would?

[398] You know, you got to take a chance.

[399] That's the exciting part, yeah.

[400] My thought on it, I'm a purist, and my thought on it is you don't know who the best in the world is until you take the guys who are the most dangerous or, in his case, the most problematic.

[401] And you've got to pit him up against each other.

[402] And unless you do, it's not legit.

[403] Yeah, it'd be nice to see him in the UFC to see if he is, you know, a top contender for real.

[404] Yeah, I mean, or you put him in there with a guy like you who could shut him down and you say, oh, okay, well, here's his issue.

[405] You know, we've seen it time and time again.

[406] We just saw it with Eddie Alvarez.

[407] Eddie Alvarez, who looked great in Bellator, Donald Serroney just picks his leg apart.

[408] And you go, oh, okay, well, here's, this is the new level.

[409] You hit the next level.

[410] Yeah, you see guys from other organizations that come in, you start to see maybe they're not so invincible, you know.

[411] Well, look at Hecht and Lombard.

[412] When he was fighting at 185 in Bellator, he was crushing people.

[413] Came over to the UFC, Tim Bosh beats him.

[414] And, you know, Tim Balsh is a very good fighter, no doubt about it.

[415] But what the issue was is Boch is a natural 205, cuts down to 185, and Lombard's a 170, who's a little blown up to be 185.

[416] and the skill level and the toughness of bosh allowed him to beat him and that's you know everybody was saying like lumbar it's going to come over and smash everybody and he looks really good now at 170 but that's that's important you've got to see that play out yeah and if it doesn't play out i feel like i feel like i got robbed like i feel i really do like when asker and signed with one fc i remember reading it online i was like what the fuck man Yeah, who was he going to fight over there?

[417] I was upset.

[418] I mean, maybe he, maybe in a year or two years, the talent level of one FC will rise to the occasion or, you know, maybe he'll go over to Bellator.

[419] Who the fuck knows?

[420] Or maybe come back rather to Bellator.

[421] Who the fuck knows?

[422] You know, now the Coker's there and Bjorn is gone.

[423] You know, who knows?

[424] Maybe that was the issue, the reason why he left.

[425] Yeah, maybe.

[426] Maybe, yeah, it'd be nice to see him in the UFC.

[427] It would be nice to see another organization.

[428] really fucking step up and be like pride was too like be like the other competition would be good for the fighters it's good for everybody yeah right yeah and it's good for everybody in weight classes too like a weight class like yours welterweight me you got a fucking murderers row yeah at welterweight and that's important and that's why you know all these new guys are coming up and they're at a very high level and like it seems like whenever you have a really super ultra -competitive weight class it's all these people start rising to the occasion you see better performances from all of them yeah yeah the welterweight division's crazy man it's like so unstable you never know who's going to come on on top it's like a pressure cooker yeah but i think i think i think i'm going to you know i'm coming up right now and i think i might be able to dominate the division soon well you're definitely getting better you know that's one of the things getting closer getting in the opportunity.

[429] I'm fighting for the title next, so I guess we'll see.

[430] Yeah, your fight against Saffodine was a big eye opener for a lot of people because Safferine is known as a stand -up guy, and you set traps for him, man, you know?

[431] That was a really interesting fight, you know?

[432] Yeah, there's small details going on in that fight.

[433] Yeah, that was a big victory.

[434] You know, catching him like that and stopping him like that, that was a big victory.

[435] The Damien Maya fight was a big victory, too.

[436] That was probably my favorite fight.

[437] Yeah, because he got you down that first round when he's most dangerous and you're both dry and, you know, got you down but you defended perfectly you know and then yeah he's a tough guy and not a lot of people recognize him in the welterweight division right now well he's so strong he's so strong so technical too man yeah it's crazy and getting down to 170 you see him very technical but also like physically strong like the rick story fight yeah you know no one's ever taking story down like yeah he crushes people crushes john fitch yeah like no one ran through fitch like that at the time he john fitch fitch right yeah that's true i mean i mean i mean he's ever I mean, that's what Fitch would do to guys.

[438] You would outgrapple them and beat them down.

[439] Yeah.

[440] That's another issue that I wanted to bring up is weight cutting.

[441] Yeah.

[442] That sort of highlights why, like, weight cutting, fuck, it's unfortunate, but it's reality.

[443] Uh -huh.

[444] How much do you cut?

[445] Well, right now, I'm about 200.

[446] Jesus Christ, son.

[447] Yeah, but I'm not, like, jacked.

[448] We're a tall guy.

[449] How tall tall, we did?

[450] Six -two?

[451] Six -one?

[452] Six -foot?

[453] Yeah.

[454] You said it, and I added an inch to you for some reason.

[455] You know what that was about?

[456] It's not too hard for me, actually.

[457] I just diet for two months.

[458] So you normally naturally weigh 200 pounds.

[459] And then, like, the week of the fight, how much do you weigh?

[460] Like, before the fight?

[461] Yeah.

[462] I'll be like 182.

[463] 1 -82.

[464] So you lose somehow another 18 pounds along the way.

[465] And how are you doing that?

[466] Just diet, man. Healthy eating.

[467] but you're not fat you know i would never imagine you know but i'm not like i'm not ripped all you around i'm only i'm only really cut when i'm cutting weight for my fight i have a lot of extra excess weight i guess water weight or whatever you want to call it do you watch your diet all year round or when you don't have a fight you fuck off pretty much i like to eat kind of healthy but yeah definitely but you like to go off yeah what do you think about guys who well you're pretty extreme weight cutter then i mean that's that's not really though Because it's not hard for me. No?

[468] No, it's really not.

[469] Like, if you ask my coaches, like, I'm just cruising.

[470] Well, 182 the week of is not bad.

[471] Yeah, I get down there pretty comfortable, and then it's just like I don't eat too much, and, you know, I manage my water levels properly, and I'm exercising, and I have a good system.

[472] It works for me. That is another issue, though, that goes along with training for a fight, the issue of dehydrating yourself essentially in getting down to 170 pounds for a brief amount of time and then when you step into the octagon what do you weigh i'll put 185 so not bad so you're not straining yourself too much you don't deplete your body too much i feel good um a lot of the times i feel like i could fight when i when i get on the scale really yeah i really don't feel bad at all that's nice to hear because there's some guys that push it so far yeah i've had that in the past like well i just do like i just cut water but now i die at the white off naturally and i feel great so is just a matter of like being a bit more discipline in your camp yeah with your diet nutrition is a big part of it and yeah i use um do you know george lockard is no uh he's a nutritionist uh ex fighter and uh yeah he's got a good system um i think his website is uh fitness vt so he's one of those dulce type dudes he i think he's a bit different than dulce in what way it's not a marketing machine no and i think he's just a little more natural a little more natural yeah what you're trying to say dude spit it out spit it out i don't know i've heard things what do you hear you're talking about like diuretics i don't know what they're doing over there but it's not for me well that was bj's accusation yeah the diuretic thing yeah i don't know i don't i don't like to play with any of that i like to keep it natural and i have a healthy uh nutrient rich body you know let my skill do the work for me well apparently you can use diuretics that are natural though like uh vitamin c and high doses is apparently a natural diuretic and that's what they say dulce uses okay it's one of the things that he does i have no idea what it is system is.

[473] Yeah, I don't know either, but a lot of guys have been popped for diuretics in the past, and none Adolce's guys have.

[474] Okay.

[475] So I don't know if what he's doing, you mean, there's, it's like performance enhancing drugs or performance enhancing substances, it's such a strange thing because there are nutrients that you can isolate in levels that you would normally never get in food.

[476] You know, you can take nutrients that are healthy and normal, but you extract them from food, You take them in pill form, and they can, without a doubt, improve your performance.

[477] Okay.

[478] But those are legal.

[479] Because they're essentially food -based supplements.

[480] Okay, yeah.

[481] Like vitamins and nutrients.

[482] Vitamins and nutrients.

[483] Yeah, well, that's natural things.

[484] Quarterseps mushrooms, things along those lines.

[485] It allows you, the Chinese Olympic team used it, and we actually have some here.

[486] I'll give you something before.

[487] It's totally safe.

[488] It's called Shroom Tech.

[489] You never heard of Shrooms Tech sport?

[490] It allows your body to better utilize oxygen.

[491] It actually came from high altitude hurting populations had found that their cows were eating these mushrooms that were growing and they were more active.

[492] And so that was initially how it was discovered.

[493] They actually grow it on caterpillars.

[494] It's really kind of fucking freaky.

[495] Yeah, but so this is a natural, natural nutrition and nutrients and things that, you know, This isn't like EPO or something.

[496] Exactly.

[497] If it's natural and, you know, it's, I think that should be allowed, right?

[498] Yeah.

[499] But then you get things like creatine, which is also kind of natural, but you're taking it in forms where you would never get it from meat.

[500] Is that beneficial to a fighter, though?

[501] I don't know.

[502] There's been studies.

[503] There's been studies that say that creatine improves physical strength.

[504] But there's also been studies that you retain water, which is one of the last things that a fighter would want, especially when you're about to cut weight.

[505] really take too many supplements.

[506] So I'm not really educated on it too much.

[507] I take the protein and like B -CAAs and stuff.

[508] What kind of protein do you use?

[509] Do you use plant -based or?

[510] Yeah, I use Vega and stuff in the past, yeah.

[511] Do you use way, way protein at all?

[512] No. No?

[513] Just mostly plant -based?

[514] Yeah, and you know what?

[515] I don't do it all the time.

[516] I just I kind of use it once in a while.

[517] So this guy...

[518] I should probably use more supplements.

[519] I think eating good really helps me. Yeah.

[520] Oh, for sure.

[521] A lot of, I drink a lot of water.

[522] Do you drink, well, you have a coffee there.

[523] Yeah, is that coffee?

[524] Yeah, I like coffee.

[525] Do you fuck around with that, like, the week of the fights?

[526] All the time.

[527] Things like that, yeah.

[528] Doesn't seem to mess with you.

[529] Doesn't bother me. Yeah, Tito Ortiz used to say that coffee fucks with your cardio, but I've never heard that before.

[530] You know, the fact I've heard it helps.

[531] I haven't had a problem with it.

[532] I have a coffee a day, usually.

[533] What is this nutrition guy again?

[534] What's his name?

[535] George Lockhart.

[536] Lockhart.

[537] And does he propose or prescribe meals for you?

[538] does he like he'll have like a meal plan and stuff and like um he'll balance it for your work schedule like uh he he does it for like regular people and then like you know athletes and fighters and stuff so you could punch in like your workout schedule uh it's detailed like how much you walking that day how much you're sitting down how much you're sleeping um all kinds of stuff like that and uh how much body fat you are how tall you are what your goals are so it's a whole like system he has in place so he's very specific yeah oh yeah this guy knows his stuff if you ever talk to him it's just like like 90 % of the things just go right over your head because he's just like he's using words that you never heard of and he's talking fast and he's a smart guy he's one of those dudes you have to ask him like three times the same question to like kind of feel a little bit like you know what he's talking about so do you um just get a plan from him or does he actually cut make the meals for you no no it's just like the plan so you do all the preparation and everything yourself yeah you do all your own shopping yeah stuff like that you cook for yourself all that chas yeah oh wow yeah and when it comes to portions do you measure them out yeah i've kind of like figured it out now like this kind of general size but had when i first started yeah it was like weighed and stuff now what about like green leafy vegetables things along those lawns is he strong on that yeah yeah for sure all types of different vegetables it's mostly vegetables I guess and what what source of protein there's nuts for like snacks and stuff and then you know chicken breast certain fish like salmon um filet mignon um pork tenderloin there's a few different ones so essentially mostly low fat type stuff yeah and do you get your fats from like avocado or coconut oil avocado yeah coconut oil is another one there's the nuts again almonds and stuff walnuts that's very interesting to me as well that this is something that people are realizing within the last few you know decade or so that like healthy fats are just as important as nutrients is a very important part of your diet a lot of energy comes from that if you take that stuff out your brain just fucking dries up when i've i've tried like taking fats out of my diet like way back in the day i experimented with different diets right and one of the things that i found is i got stupid like my brain wasn't working as well like i could feel the difference yeah you need to like oil your brain with that or something i mean i don't know what the exact mechanism is yeah there's flaxseed oil too fish oils stuff like that you take tablet fish oil or do you use like tablespoons yeah like liquid yeah yeah the liquid stuff a little bit easier to digest you don't have to deal with that um the gelatin that comes in the outside which is you know essentially just animal hooves and shit like that that they turn to i take vitamins and gel capsules and vitamins i don't i haven't had a problem and does this guy george zee measure all this stuff out for you as well and tell you what to take and yeah it's it's all like portioned out on the the site for you do you get blood work done um i haven't i i i i've uh i've got prescription to like measure like all like my nutrient levels and i've just been too lazy to go get it done that's ridiculous though you're a professional at the highest level of the game and i'm i'm an idiot no i don't know i just i just um procrastinator with it because you know one day i'll i'll feel like crappy and i'll be talking to my osteopath and it'll be like go get these blood work done see what your deficiencies are so we'll get a prescription and i'll never go do it.

[539] I'm scared of needles.

[540] It's a big thing.

[541] You're scared of needles?

[542] Get the fuck out of here.

[543] Really?

[544] I pass out.

[545] I'm not joking.

[546] That's hilarious.

[547] You're not scared to fight in a cage.

[548] I've passed out many times doing like IVs or stuff like that.

[549] Really?

[550] Yeah man. I hate it.

[551] So like when you're rehydrating like when they give you an IV, you pass out.

[552] Yeah.

[553] You faint.

[554] Yeah, man. And then I wake up and everyone's looking at me. I've almost attacked for Oz and a couple of guys because I've woken up and didn't know where I was, and I was just like, oh.

[555] That's hilarious.

[556] Yeah, yeah, it sucks.

[557] I used to date this girl who couldn't even watch someone get a needle in a movie, she would black out.

[558] Yeah.

[559] Yeah, if I think about it too hard, then I'll, like, get, like, my stomach will, like...

[560] That's so weird.

[561] Yeah.

[562] But that's so illogical.

[563] I don't understand what that is.

[564] And it only happened, like, it only started happening, like, four or five years ago.

[565] Really?

[566] Before, like, blood, like, because you have to get blood work done for the fights, right?

[567] Right.

[568] past like your HIV and all that stuff and before i would just be like yeah and it's done walk away now then all of a sudden out of nowhere every time and i see a needle coming my way i like my my face will get white for no reason that's so strange so i have to like get on my phone like this i have to lay down like it's a whole process and you have to like look away and look oh yeah distract myself wow even talking about right now i like get like that's so strange how how I mean, it would make more sense It was something you always had Yeah, it's so weird Like my ex -girlfriend, her dad had it And she said that her dad, one time Her brother got like a severe sunburn And he had blisters all over himself And the dad saw it and the dad fainted And what's crazy is the dad was a fucking doctor He was a dentist Oh, okay So I'm like, how the fuck is this guy Like, I mean, obviously he must deal With some fucked up shit and gory things Pulling teeth and stuff in dentistry too yeah weird well he i guess he was okay with needles but he would see certain things like he saw his son with blisters he's like oh that's weird he falls down on the fucking beat blisters yeah because you know like from the sun from the sunburn yeah yeah i mean he apparently had a really bad sunburn yes but she was like it's weird it's fucking weird right yeah it's in her family i guess but it's weird that you acquired it that's very nowhere it was just like one it was i was doing blood work for a fight and I was at the hospital and I was just like every day and then I passed out and ever since then it happens so I have to be really careful that's fucking weird dude yeah have you talked to a psychologist about that no no probably never well I would want to know if there's like a coping mechanism for that yeah I'll probably just overcome it hmm maybe now Maybe now you'd be thinking about this conversation.

[569] People are going to be bringing it out.

[570] Sports psychology is a very interesting thing to me. And I've actually thought about using a sports psychologist for stand -up, for stand -up comedy.

[571] Because I'm like, I don't think anybody's ever done that before.

[572] But I bet, because a lot of camps incorporate sports psychologists as a heavy part of their regiment.

[573] And like Ryan Parsons, who, you know, he trains Dennis Bermudez and he handles a impact comments a lot of good guys and he's big on that yeah yeah and uh i've always been fascinated by sports i've never i've never actually sat now with a psychologist who got over my own brain neither of i i don't know what they would talk about like what would what would they tell me i don't know to do differently for you they'd probably watch that video you staring and they'd be like good good good good good whatever that is that place go to that yeah maybe they help you get to that zone right yeah well that's what i would wonder is for some guys it becomes necessary after a loss because after a loss um you know there there are people that have i guess the best way to describe it would be unrealistic expectations or unrealistic perceptions of who they are they like to think of themselves as being absolutely different from everybody else and you know they're a champion it's going to happen they're going to beat everybody and then they get beat they're like fuck i can't believe i lost like and it becomes a real issue restructuring their mindset like reestablishing their confidence yeah interesting i don't george use one i think yeah a while i don't think he always did it but i think he tried it david lozzo i think did it too well lozzo has some real problems right anxiety yeah yeah and he didn't have those until he lost he lost to rich franklin yeah i think that's when all those came that started it yeah i'm not too sure i can't well that was a brutal fight that was a that was yeah that was a war brutal fight yeah it was yeah it was one of rich's uh biggest victories and it was when rich was in his prime and it was just a beating yeah david was really never the same after that fight no yeah yeah when uh george used it was it was post the mat sarah fight i have no idea when it was i never really asked him about it too much well he seems like the type of guy that would try everything He's very open -minded, you know?

[574] Yeah.

[575] If someone tells him something with enough confidence, he'll be interested in it.

[576] Well, he's so open.

[577] I mean, I was amazed that he was willing to work out with me. When I told him that I could help him in the spinning back kick technique, I thought he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let me get to you on that.

[578] You know, but he's very open.

[579] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, as far as learning things.

[580] Yeah, yeah, man. He'll, he has this, like, I'll try anything.

[581] He's got the beginner's mindset.

[582] Yes, almost too much so, because, like, that's how he got roped into that fucking witch doctor dude.

[583] was rubbing on his chest Yeah, yeah Voodoo moves and shit He's very like He's like a child almost in that sense You know Yeah Yeah he's very optimistic in that sense Like Everyone's always trying to help him And stuff Yeah they were explaining to me What this guy was doing to him That he was like changing his chakras And his meridians and all this chat And I go whoa whoa whoa whoa Whoa yeah I was going What the fuck's going on I was like you giving this guy money Hold on Yeah Explain this again What the fuck are you saying?

[584] Do you really think there's one guy that can do this?

[585] And there's no one else in the world of the Olympics, elite athletes in football, NBA, boxing, fill in the blank.

[586] Millions and millions and fucking billions of dollars on the line in all these sports.

[587] And there's one dude who knows how to rub on your fucking chest and turn you into a super game.

[588] What I heard, this guy's, this witch doctor guy, I never met him.

[589] I met him.

[590] But, yeah?

[591] Yeah.

[592] I never met him.

[593] um dana was the one who actually called him the witch doctor and he claimed that as his name after like dana called him as a goof yeah like oh you're like a witch doctor and then he was like yeah i'm a witch doctor i'm the witch doctor like he's just a fucking lunatic i don't know i don't know i don't know i think of both the situation i wasn't around for it but i'm always astounded that elite high level alpha male competitors like fighters getting fuckered by bullshit.

[594] There's been a few guys like that.

[595] Everyone's looking for the advantage, right?

[596] Yeah.

[597] Everyone's looking for the next thing, but really, I think it's, it's, it's in your head.

[598] Oh, no doubt.

[599] One guy I talked to actually admitted to me that what he was doing was all in your head.

[600] Like, he tried to, like, everybody was telling me, like, you know, I've always had neck and back problems just from jiu -jitsu, and this guy was working on me, and he was, like, doing some weird shit where he was, like, pressing the back of my head.

[601] He was, like, telling me that he could tell, like, where my issues were by pressing the back of my head.

[602] And, like, does this hurt, no, it's hurt, and then he would, like, press one spot harder.

[603] He was like, does that hurt?

[604] I go, well, you just pressed it harder.

[605] And, like, we had this little, like, we're looking at each other funny.

[606] And then I go, what exactly are you doing?

[607] And we got into, like, you know, he tried to, like, give me his spiel.

[608] And, okay, let's try this again.

[609] What exactly are you doing?

[610] Like, what exactly are you doing?

[611] And what essentially he was saying, in a roundabout sort of a way, was that if you believe in what he's doing, then it becomes, like, a placebo effect thing.

[612] Yeah.

[613] But I'm like, but you can't just bullshit me. You can't bullshit me because I'm too curious If you bullshit me, I'm going to ask questions And I need to know whether or not I'm being Bullshitted, but it's kind of fuck Because if I just let him bullshit me Maybe I would have had a better result But I was, you know I was just like like fighters Like the fucking high level guys You see this all the time Like with those little plastic wristbands With the shiny little tinfoil on it Yes That's like that's gonna help me be a better athlete fucking Mike Goldberg One time We were in Vegas And he had a couple of drinks And he's telling me how amazing He's wearing one of these fucking stupid things in his wrist And he's telling me how amazing it is And he introduces me To these guys that are selling them And they try to do these carnival tricks on you Yeah, yeah I know what you're talking about Yes They do different little tests with your body Like push down one arm Yes But if you understand Jiu -Jitsu You know he's changing the leverage point yeah like he's like he's like doing it like this and then like you know he'll like go further out in your arm like now try and you're like well you're over there now get the fuck over here do it the way you did it first you know it's like okay now resist me okay now resist me works on some people man dude chain harwin had one on vanderlay had one on carwin was telling me how it helped his back mike over said my back's never been better two years later he's fucking disfused of course what the fuck you talking about man this guy's got a rubber band on your wrist with fucking shiny shiny plastic yeah i guess maybe it's some people's human instinct to like look for that edge yeah look for that age i believe it and believe it and actually feel better actually feel better yeah it's crazy huh it's totally crazy the placebo yeah the mind yeah the mind is so powerful it's insane it's amazing it is amazing that some people power of belief is uh it's something to be said you know well i was reading this thing where they were talking about injuries and that in certain injuries you know people get atrophy after the injury because they don't use the muscle while it's healing right but if you spend X amount of time doing visualization exercises and X amount of time visualizing actually using those specific muscle groups they don't atrophy right yeah I've heard of that what the fuck man yeah your your imagination I think about like all different kinds of things like that when I'm daydreaming I find it helps me Well, it must.

[614] I mean, mindset is so important.

[615] You think about the mind is the control panel for the body.

[616] That's what's executing all those moves.

[617] And one of the things about you when it comes to competition that I think freaks people out is how calm you stay and how dead -eyed, like that video where you're just standing there staring and not blinking.

[618] Like that dead -eyed calmness, that's not giving into anxiety.

[619] That's not having extraneous thoughts.

[620] I don't need to bounce around and beat my chest before the fight.

[621] You know, it just doesn't make a difference for me. But some guys do.

[622] Yeah, it gets you hyped up.

[623] Yeah.

[624] Yeah.

[625] I don't need to get hyped up.

[626] But like when you think about it, like the one guy that everybody was so impressed with throughout his career was Fador.

[627] Because he just was dead face too.

[628] Yeah, yeah.

[629] He just turns it on when the bell rings.

[630] Yeah, exactly.

[631] Didn't need to.

[632] used to say that like showing anger or showing emotion was a sign of weakness and that you should be focused entirely on your task yeah and nothing else i can agree with that but you don't have like this isn't something that you've like worked out with a coach or that you think it's just experience over the years learning yourself is it from observing other people that are also good in it i think it's self -experience and yeah maybe i don't know I don't know why it happened all of a sudden.

[633] Just did.

[634] It's just your thing.

[635] Yeah, it's just my thing.

[636] You found your groove.

[637] Hey, you got to wash her?

[638] Yeah, you got to go to bathroom?

[639] You got to pee?

[640] Go ahead.

[641] It's right through that door.

[642] Okay.

[643] These goddamn athletes and their small bladders.

[644] So what happens?

[645] They're always drinking that water.

[646] Right through the door, right on your right hand side.

[647] Right there.

[648] Rory McDonald, ladies and gentlemen.

[649] During this intermission, this brief intermission, why Rory does his Pee's, I would like to announce Well actually the show Tomorrow Night at the Ice House Is Basically sold out I think it's sold out Because it's a ridiculous lineup It's Bill Burr Christelia Brian Callin Ian Edwards Tony Hinchcliffe and me I do it every year Every year I do a night before Thanksgiving Because I'm almost always home With my family during Thanksgiving We actually talked about Going places for Thanksgiving But that seems like a goddamn nightmare place Or nightmare time to travel but that shit is basically sold out and then the next gig I have to after that is December 12th on the road in Phoenix Arizona with Tony Hinchcliff at the celebrity theater everybody that tuned in to Rocky Mountain High that was on Comedy Central thank you so much this was I think my best one I always say that but this one I really do think it was my best one and it was without a doubt the best received one my last one was just wasn't it i think i wasn't doing as much stand -up while i was doing it and um for whatever reason you know a lot of people didn't like it as much they felt like i fell off a little bit so i worked really hard on this one and uh it paid off so i appreciate the fuck out of that and i'm working hard as crazy i just did my first totally new hour this past weekend at the ontario improv so everybody came down for that thank you i had a great fucking time and He's back, ladies and gentlemen.

[650] So when you were 18 and you first started going to TriStar and you made your move up to Montreal, how beneficial was it for you as a young guy to be able to train with the Welterweight champion?

[651] It was awesome.

[652] A huge opportunity, right?

[653] Yeah, and not only that, like, George was, like, such a nice person, like, probably one of the more welcoming persons there.

[654] You know, like, he really was like, oh, wow, you know, you're really good.

[655] He was very complimentary to me. not only let me train, but, you know, he took me around Montreal, you know, talked to me outside of the gym, invited me back to stay with him, you know, for training trips and things like that, like, you know, such a, such a cool experience and an awesome part of my life.

[656] Yeah, he's such a nice guy.

[657] Yeah, it's incredible.

[658] He really is.

[659] It's so hard to believe that he's this fucking trained killer, you know?

[660] He's a beast, man. Because he's so nice.

[661] He's so nice.

[662] nice but not worried about competition that's what i find fascinating that there's some guys like you remember the uh the whole thing with rachad and john jones like they were worried about bringing guys in like i might have to fight this guy someday yeah you welcomed it yeah that's crazy yeah that's fat i i find that i never forgot it either a lot of people now are like asking me to fight him and this and that you know i think it's they don't see the the things that i you know i got to see and that I appreciate not only is like a martial arts but you know for myself you know I learned so much from him and I gained a lot from you know his kindness and what he gave to me and I'm not going to forget that and stab him in the back you know right what would happen though if you do eventually win the title and George does come back I think you just do super fights you think so yeah I'm pretty sure like almost 100 % offered you a fucking boatload of cash and the two you got together well you know what life's not about money no obviously you know you know i'm doing this for money also but it's not it it's it's it's never been my goal to be a fucking billionaire right i'm gonna live in the woods one day and so it's is it i don't really are you yeah for sure man really what are you gonna do out there huh just be weird yeah be weird around naked i have to hear people call me a fucking psycho all the time and just be what no I don't know well people probably don't call your psycho in real life because in real life you're really normal yeah no it's just they know you from the moment you step into that cage yeah and that's when you see what the media shows them for sure that's what well you know it's what everybody sees there's a fucking camera on you you're fucking psycho yeah let's read look at well I'll play that video again no no you're eventually going to live in the woods for real yeah yeah definitely But that's the thing that I've been, the thing I've been trying to overcome is like, how am I going to train martial arts and live in the woods?

[663] And live in the woods and have a family.

[664] So I'm going to have to have like some kind of thing worked out.

[665] Well, you just got to live close enough to a city.

[666] Yeah, yeah, that's the problem.

[667] I don't want to be close to anyone.

[668] How far away do you want to be?

[669] Far.

[670] Like helicopter rescue far?

[671] That would be awesome.

[672] What is it?

[673] about wanting to get away like why don't know i i i just don't like being in the city real i grew up i grew up in like you know nature and stuff in my early like childhood and stuff and then i got tossed around the city you know having to live with parents i moved away and stuff so i prefer to be out in nature well you know what you could do you can start your own gym you know yeah you are at a point who knows what's going to happen i mean you think about it you're at a point right now in your career that if you started a gym today, people would flock to it.

[674] And the more you accomplish in your career, I mean, it wouldn't even necessarily be a gym that you would have to teach at, but just hire, yeah, use your name.

[675] I thought about it.

[676] Maybe an affiliate of TriStar or something like that.

[677] Yeah, that would be cool too.

[678] Yeah, I don't know.

[679] I'm just going to see what happens, comes my way.

[680] I definitely plan on having a home in the woods, so.

[681] I love being in the woods.

[682] Yeah, yeah.

[683] I lived in the woods for a little while.

[684] I live in the woods for a little while.

[685] that's so cool man i bought my dad a bow for his 50th birthday oh really yeah no kidding yeah that's cool what kind um i forget the name of it it's a it's a compound bow though i lost a few of his arrows a few it's not measured for me right so it was right it wasn't working for me yeah that's the thing about bows especially compound bows very specifically you have to get a measure to your draw length The amount of weight you pull back.

[686] And then the arrows have to be weighted to the correct bow.

[687] You know, you can't have an arrow that's too light or an arrow that's too heavy.

[688] And then you have to use the sight because bows have a sight on them.

[689] And that has to be accurately judged based on the weight of the arrow, the speed of the arrow, the poundage of the pole.

[690] So many details.

[691] A lot of details.

[692] I like guns better, personally.

[693] Well, what I like about guns is that they're really effective.

[694] I got a shot a moose a couple weeks ago Nice And wear boats In BC No way Yeah awesome What area I'll tell you The place is called Big Country Outfitters And it's like the mid Mid Mid Northern Mid BC Okay so maybe like cariboo or something No I don't think Well I bet there's some carib No no the area Oh yes That's where I was born Oh that's hilarious That's crazy It's north of that It's a little bit north of that They were about, I want to say, like, a little less than an hour, North of Caribou.

[695] That's what we were.

[696] Okay, okay.

[697] Cool.

[698] We saw some big moose, dude.

[699] Yeah, man. God damn.

[700] The one I shot was pretty big.

[701] I mean, it was young.

[702] It was only like 900 pounds.

[703] For a moose, that's not that big a deal.

[704] Which is crazy.

[705] It's crazy.

[706] He's saying 900 pounds is not that big.

[707] But we saw one.

[708] We saw one that was like fucking Jurassic Park.

[709] Right.

[710] We only saw it, like, briefly for a second.

[711] There was all these females.

[712] There's all these cows.

[713] They were big.

[714] They were probably 900 to 1 ,000 pounds.

[715] And this motherfucker was twice as big as them with this enormous ass.

[716] Like this huge legs.

[717] They were just towering.

[718] And then he just disappeared in the woods.

[719] But we were like, holy shit.

[720] They have those out there, these just giant fucking moose.

[721] Yeah, BC's amazing.

[722] And so many wolves that they encourage people to kill them.

[723] Yeah, yeah, I know.

[724] It's become like pests.

[725] But where we were, the guy.

[726] his neighbor got a cow taken by wolves like they're in their house and they hear howls and crazy shit and they look out the window there's like 20 wolves ripping a cow apart yeah that happens wolves aren't bad though but there's just a lot of them right now in bc well you know there's balance to the ecosystem yeah exactly and they're very important to that sure you know for all sorts of reasons to keep rodents down and to keep populations healthy and to make sure that and they catch the diseased animals usually in like the like the big pack of caribou that move they uh they usually catch like the sick ones and they the weak ones yeah it's when they get out of whack when there's too many of them and that can happen they get on these just giant super packs they have a big issue with that in russia there was a yeah a couple years ago there was these super packs that were taking out horses they were like a hundred wolves strong just really nuts and they would that's insane take a fucking horse out wow would you would you live up there like that kind of area where up like near caribou is that where you'd live yeah yeah probably Roy McDonald mixed martial arts academy set it up people come yeah in the woods yeah maybe that'd be awesome who knows what'll happen well you're living in like a pretty metropolitan area yeah you're living in Montreal yeah do you live in like an apartment like in the city yeah yeah that's got to be weird then sucks you know like what is the issue is it too much noise too many people yeah Yeah, I just prefer to be with, like, trees and lakes and less, like, craziness and honking and the anxiety that comes along with the city.

[727] Something about it.

[728] I can't really explain it.

[729] I grew up with it, right?

[730] So it's like that's what I always look back on in my best times.

[731] Right.

[732] Yeah, I always find it weird that some people love it.

[733] Like, my manager lives in New York City, and he loves it.

[734] He loves it.

[735] Yeah, it's crazy.

[736] Yeah.

[737] city i have to go in the park every day when i when i train there to like balance out i hate it there really yeah i hate the city so what do you do you just go feed pigeons or some shit yeah walk around just relax yeah man do you have um like things that you do you do meditate do you do anything to try to calm yourself down no i i think a lot i daydream a lot so maybe that's meditation for me kind of in a way just not discipline yeah it's not like discipline have you ever fucked around with the sensory deprivation tank no but I just texting you I want to do that man yeah that's right and Farras wants to do it too I'll hook it up I'm sure there's got to be a place in Montreal I know there's a big place in Vancouver that opened up recently that would make sense there yeah yeah Frankie Edgar was just tweeting me today he just did his first session today it takes like a few times to learn how to relax you were saying right yeah well Well, I wouldn't say it takes a few times to learn how to relax, but just to be comfortable with the experience, it becomes a normal thing.

[738] Right.

[739] You know, it's, it's so weird.

[740] There's so much, so much strangeness to it the first time you do it.

[741] Okay.

[742] That I think you get more out of it when you do it two, three, or four times.

[743] Okay.

[744] Like, I have one of my house, so to me, going in it is like a normal everyday thing.

[745] It's like, okay, I'm going in the tank now.

[746] And I tell my wife, leave me alone.

[747] I'll be back in a couple hours And I just go in there And hours, huh?

[748] Yeah, I like to do two hours Okay, cool I can do like one hour Like if I know I have a show Like if I have to leave the house It's seven for a show I can go in at five And go in for an hour and a half Or something and take a shower But I prefer it at night When my family's asleep Okay Everyone's conked out I like to go in there Because then I know I'm just going to go in my own There's no other energy in the house That makes any sense Yeah, for sure Like I do all my best writing when everyone's asleep and it's you know when you have a family especially you're always managing shit you know like there's always like things like she took my thing calm down everybody relax and there's always you know it's hard to write when all that's going on but it's way hard to like relax like if i was in the tank and i heard screaming from upstairs like oh gotta get out of the fucking tank who's yelling at who who did what you know yeah that would that would suck yeah Yeah, so it's best in a state of complete quiet, you know, if you can...

[749] Isolation and peaceful, yeah, for sure.

[750] And then you enter into it, it's like, think about the most peace that you've ever found when you're in the woods in nature and multiply that by 100.

[751] Really?

[752] Because it removes your body.

[753] It removes all the input of your body because you're floating, you feel like you're flying.

[754] Yeah.

[755] It's crazy.

[756] That's intense.

[757] It's very intense.

[758] And it's crazy to me that I'm the guy who keeps telling people about it.

[759] I'm like, how is this not way more popular?

[760] I've never understood it.

[761] I'm like, how is it, like, why do you have to hear from me?

[762] Like, how is this not like a huge part of so many people's lives, especially when you think how much of every, we were talking about the mind and how much of effect the mind has on your performance and how important it is to achieve certain mindsets, there's no better place to get to know your fucking brain they're in a tank and i would think with so many people being so performance oriented and goal oriented and achievement oriented that that would be a huge tool yeah it makes complete sense to me right we're gonna get you in there we'll get you in there we'll get you in there as soon as we get done with this podcast i'm gonna call up crash okay the float lab and we'll hook something up okay awesome where are you staying while you're in town uh by lax oh perfect because he's in venice so yeah it's like 15 minutes a way that's like yeah it's like 15 minutes away awesome yeah yeah i'm down yeah i'm down here to like the fourth i leave to vegas nice yeah so you're down here just doing the thing having a good time yeah getting some training in yeah hopefully training with as much people as possible is that when you come into town like a place like that is it difficult to arrange that or it's everybody just welcome you with open arms um i don't know i haven't really i haven't trained with anyone yet so hopefully it's you haven't tried that before in cali no it's my first time oh okay yeah So you just showed up.

[763] Yeah.

[764] I'll probably try to, like, you know, want to go to check out Eddie's place.

[765] And George has spent some time here.

[766] So hopefully he'll get me see Freddy.

[767] Freddie Roach.

[768] Yeah.

[769] So network with people, and hopefully I can get a spot with different gyms and see what it's all about.

[770] Well, how does that work?

[771] Like, if you train with a guy like Freddie Roach, you have to pay him or does it take in?

[772] You don't know?

[773] I don't know.

[774] Either one's fine, right?

[775] You're like, just got to get in the work.

[776] Yeah.

[777] Yeah.

[778] If I have to pay them, I'm no problem with that.

[779] What about Muay?

[780] Are you looking to do some moitai when you're down to?

[781] Yeah, anything.

[782] I actually, I want to learn your sidekick and back kick, man. I'd be happy.

[783] Yeah, let's work out, definitely.

[784] Cool.

[785] Be happy to show you some stuff.

[786] Well, you're so flexible already, and you throw so, you have so much dexterity.

[787] You like that question mark kick.

[788] You throw that a lot, right?

[789] Yeah.

[790] Yeah, I've been trying to get more dynamic with my kicking.

[791] So.

[792] Well, the front leg sidekick is the one that I see making a big.

[793] comeback in MMA i mean john jones loves to do that to the thigh and he even dropped vitor to the body yeah he did that was an awesome kick yeah right that was a big kick in uh in my uh arsenal the front leg side kick and i'm a short guy but my friend larry um my friend larry jones who was a high level black belt back in the day okay he was a tall guy he was like six foot three and he was all legs his legs would go up to his fucking rib cage and this dude would just impale people with his front leg sidekick he just had developed i've never worked i'd love to work that you know who's good as kajun johnson oh yeah good front leg yeah i'd definitely like to work that with you yeah it's a weird technique because it's so effective at keeping distance from the guy like a sideways stance like you're seeing that sideways stance play out like wonder boys really stephen thompson really good at that sideways stance yeah he's a really fucking interesting addition to uh to uh to the UFC yeah yeah he's awesome i've trained with him before it's striking is amazing yeah and he moves like a snake you know in and out back and forth and with a big cage too that's so so hard to deal with you for wrestlers yeah well i've always thought i always wondered what the ufc would be like if it was in like a basketball sized place but even they're like a metamorphous yes enormous just well i don't like metamorphous because it gets near the edge and it looks like people were falling off and like uh you ever see crone gracie versus um uh what is this is a yoke yeah with the tights yeah i got like right on the edge it looked like they were gonna separate and crone caught him with a guillotine oh really it's like a weird like they were gonna break yeah it was a weird sort of it when you know chrome gets a guillotine on you you're you fucking toast he's got a nasty fucking guillotine his his technique is so slick it's so hard for to get a surface that works for you know people who want to come pay and watch right yeah yeah well it also the cage kind of gets in the way a little bit of the view you know like it's better than the ring at the same time right right i'm i think it's definitely better than the ring for mma yeah i think the ring is sloppy like yeah watching guys fall out of the ring or who is it was it was it paulophilio someone caught someone in an arm bar where their arm was wrapped up in the ring in the in the rope yeah wasn't it yeah there's a few guys like that yeah that's stupid that doesn't make any sense to me yeah like it's a mess and then um they tried different things like frank shamrock tried some weird thing at one point in time or it was like sort of like a swimming pool like surface it's flat and then the edges were like ramped up a bit and that cage yeah no no that was like yama yeah yeah yeah i remember that yama pit fighting that didn't work very well well that was Bob Meyerowitz, who is the guy who was the first owner of the UFC.

[794] He created that Yama thing.

[795] Right.

[796] And this is the fucking name.

[797] Like, someone should have said, yo, dude, you can't call it Yama.

[798] That's not catching on.

[799] Yeah, I know what they're thinking, you know.

[800] But the idea behind is not the worst idea in the world.

[801] And World Combat League used something like that.

[802] Remember Chuck Norris' organization?

[803] It was a kickbox and thing.

[804] And it had something similar.

[805] Wonder Boy was in that, too.

[806] Yeah, he was.

[807] Yeah.

[808] He was one of the best guys in that.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Yeah, the World Combat League was kind of interesting.

[811] Yeah, it was some good fights.

[812] Yeah, and now you're seeing Glory on Spike, which I think is pretty interesting too.

[813] You get to see some really high -level Muay guys, but with like slightly different rules.

[814] I prefer the Muay rules.

[815] Okay.

[816] I like the fact that they can clinch and elbow and hold on and throw multiple knees.

[817] Exactly.

[818] Yeah.

[819] And Muay as an art form is so, it's so hard.

[820] fascinating to watch because I'm a big boxing fan but the reality of boxing is there are masters like a Floyd Mayweather who use it in this incredibly beautiful way to watch you know you use you see the way he's using footwork and angles and countering and faints and it's beautiful to watch it all pull together but then you see a guy who's like a real like a Kevin Ross type you know uses everything constantly using elbows, leg kicks, knees, clinch, throws it all the, like Lion Fight, you watch Lion Fight?

[821] No. Lion Fight is a promotion out of Vegas, like one of the big Muay Thai promotions in the United States.

[822] They're on Access TV all the time.

[823] You ever heard of it?

[824] Really high level guys come over and they're fighting, like Thai guys are fighting, like Yots and Kly fights for them, Malapet fights for them, like real high level Thai guys.

[825] And they're using everything.

[826] It's like a lot of clenching, a lot of knees, elbows.

[827] It is beautiful because you get to see how this works like how you know there's distances where you know you should punch there's distances where you should kick there's and and then when you see it all combined like a really good like a Kevin Ross type dude who's like combining it all together in perfect harmony it's beautiful to watch yeah it's such a it's it's another style of it's another art form which i think a little bit is lost when you have something like glory where you don't allow guys to clinch for i think they have like a five second rule or something like that and you don't allow guys to pull down on the head and throw knees to the it's bizarre and no elbows which is another thing i think is kind of silly yeah yeah yeah i'm the same as you with the purest thing the less restrictions the better and who do you do your moitai with up in uh canada for us for us yeah so for us is your moitai coach yeah is he also does he i mean he's obviously a very good grappler himself Yeah, he's Blackbell and Derek down to her.

[828] Does he coach you on that too, or does he bring him someone else to do it?

[829] No, he's like my, he's the guy I go to pretty much for everything.

[830] But yeah, I'll go around and like I'll work boxing with Howard Grant and stuff.

[831] But most, like almost everything I do with Faraz.

[832] We really have a close connection.

[833] And Faraz is a lot of people don't understand how skilled he is at everything.

[834] He's a really good wrestler.

[835] jiu -jitsu and kickboxer and he understands it well and he knows that I teach it really well but you could tell just listening to him coach you know his take on things and the way he describes things like when they do interviews with him like he doesn't have a cursory knowledge of it it's pretty in depth you can pretty much tell that he's also obviously a very smart guy yeah you know yeah he's got a degree and you know he's very he knows that to speak well and express himself well.

[836] Do you see yourself after you're done fighting, doing something like that?

[837] Do you see yourself coaching?

[838] Probably not.

[839] No. Not interested.

[840] Maybe if the right guy came along or something, the right thing.

[841] I'd probably go on to something else in my life, though.

[842] Like what?

[843] I don't know.

[844] Find something.

[845] It's another interest that I want to, you know, dive into.

[846] Do you have like a long -term plan?

[847] Do you have like an idea of what you're...

[848] Tomorrow?

[849] Just tomorrow.

[850] Do you know, like, when you want to get out?

[851] Do you have an idea?

[852] No, clue?

[853] No. I always told myself I'm just going to do it until I don't like it anymore.

[854] That's pretty much how I operate my life.

[855] My brother laughs at me all the time because I just have like, I don't have a plan.

[856] Yeah.

[857] I just do whatever's fun and that's it.

[858] That must drive tricks crazy.

[859] Chicks hate that shit.

[860] Where are we going to be a year from now?

[861] What about five years from now, Rory?

[862] Yeah.

[863] What's our long -term plan?

[864] My girlfriend, yeah, she's a little bit different for me and that, but it's kind of about.

[865] balances us out a little bit.

[866] But she rolls with me pretty well.

[867] But yeah, I'm pretty random.

[868] Like, this trip was random.

[869] Totally.

[870] Totally random.

[871] I just decided.

[872] I was like, I'm just going to stay in California.

[873] So you came out here to compete and said, fuck it, I'm just going to stay.

[874] That was the random aspect of it.

[875] But the competing part, how long did you plan it out?

[876] That's actually when I was training for the Terek Safferning fight.

[877] I was eating and I was like, oh, I was thinking about Jiu -Jitsu.

[878] And I was like, I'd love to do Meta -Morris.

[879] So I texted, I managed to get in touch with them And they're like, oh yeah, here's a name And I'm like, okay, I'll roll with him Do you have to run that shit by the UFC?

[880] Yeah, but they accepted right away.

[881] That's interesting.

[882] Yeah.

[883] Yeah, because I would think that, like, you could get an arm broken or some shit like that.

[884] Yeah, well, I almost did.

[885] Yeah, you got caught, man, in a pretty deep Camorra.

[886] Yeah, my arm was hurting for a couple of days.

[887] It's just starting to feel better today.

[888] Did you think about tapping?

[889] No. So you're going to let him snap your arm.

[890] Yeah.

[891] What the fuck?

[892] Like, right now, I feel like, yeah, if, like, before the match, it was like, yeah, I'd probably tap.

[893] But then when I was in the position, I was like, there's no fucking way I'm tapping.

[894] That's so crazy, though.

[895] Yeah, I don't know what it is.

[896] Well, there's that fine line between where you were, because you got out of it.

[897] Yeah.

[898] And, you know, getting it snapped.

[899] Yeah.

[900] I mean, that's...

[901] Yeah, I still...

[902] And with that particular move, it's kind of hard to really do serious damage.

[903] because you know the legs and hips aren't under it right but but you watch like frank meer versus big nog yeah like ooh that's a hard one to watch yeah you see that was more like her arm that was more like it was bent over this way mine was like the straight arm lock right right right yeah yeah but still i mean guys who got their elbows snapped on that yeah but that one that big nog one was an ugly one because when that upper arm snaps for some reason that broke like here or something right yeah that's weird real weird yeah well frank's a fucking big guy he's a tank yeah and that was back when uh testosterone replacement therapy was legal so you're allowed to be uh hopped up on the special sauce that's weird didn't it that was legal i so stupid strange yeah i can't believe it was allowed well it's strange medically too because it just shows you how they found a loophole yeah it's like What also shows you what a piss -poor job, athletic commissions, do with recognizing what should and shouldn't be legal?

[904] It's insane.

[905] And a lot of the tests they do are like, it's like there's like one to one, and then they should be able to test one to one in what's synthetic, you know, being replaced.

[906] They can only test, a lot of them only test for like one to six.

[907] So you could be one to six, synthetic steroids or whatever you're using.

[908] and you could still get away with it really yeah i heard some crazy stuff like that that's why the whole like vata and wada thing didn't work out i'm pretty sure because vada does the one to one oh i don't know what you mean by what like when you're saying one to one what do you mean like they could test like your natural i'm not super educated on it so maybe i shouldn't be opening my mouth about it but uh like they could test synthetic steroids to your natural testosterone levels okay yeah well they're realizing now that they can test for everything when shale suddenly got popped you know the new shit that they're doing but he was way over oh he's fucking well that was during the Anderson Silva fight his testosterone to epitestosterone which I don't understand how that works but it's essentially it's an indicator that you're using artificial testosterone but he got the most recent one we got suspended for two years he got popped for EPO.

[909] He got pop for Clomid and all sorts of shit.

[910] Growth hormone.

[911] I mean, he was on a cocktail.

[912] That's crazy, man. Of different things.

[913] Yeah.

[914] It makes you wonder.

[915] I mean, how the testing could be better, in my opinion, though.

[916] For sure.

[917] I think they should test to the maximum ability.

[918] I think that would be the best.

[919] Sure.

[920] But the problem is, it's about $40 ,000.

[921] That's what every blood test like that is.

[922] And they have this chain of custody where they take the blood from you.

[923] They fucking essentially put in a suitcase, hang cuff themselves to it fly to the lab like they have to come to you there's a whole procedure yeah yeah i did the vada testing for the bj pen fight right yeah that was bj was uh he asked me on twitter if you if for our fight we could do the vada um testing from our whole training camp and they sponsored it and so they took all the costs and everything and worked out great we both obviously passed and yeah it was good it was good for the sport i think and that's what George wanted to do with Hendricks but you know that whole debacle happened yeah that was a that was a weird situation right the um like George was upset at that after he left and you know said that that that was one thing that he wanted to stand up for was that we need more testing in the UFC where was that coming from from George like what is what is his concern that people are cheating I think yeah right a lot specifically does you know what they're doing or who or what i don't know i don't know he just assumes or yeah maybe maybe i you know there's rumors that fly around about everyone right i mean i constantly get uh messages on twitter like oh you're because you have back acne or face acne you're fucking steroid user like right you know i do testing willingly with bj and i do i do that i do vat for every fight if i could if my opponent would do it with me but you know it's rumors i guess right well there's a lot of experts out there yeah fake experts yeah ignorance there's so much ignorance in there and you imagine like and me too i'm not i'm not i'm not super educated on it either because i mean i there's no point for me to be educated on i don't want to take any part of it but i think it's bullshit that people are using it well for the longest time i mean for how many years was it legal where you're allowed to take testosterone.

[924] I had no idea.

[925] There were some guys that were, there was one guy that was 25.

[926] He was 25, you know, testosterone use exemption.

[927] Why the fuck is going on?

[928] Yeah, why would you need that?

[929] Well, all you have to do is get a doctor that tells, you know, the commission, hey, this young man has a medical condition.

[930] Right, right.

[931] And all you'd have to do to get that medical condition is take steroids.

[932] You take steroids and then you get off of them.

[933] Right.

[934] And the end of the system crashes.

[935] Your testosterone's low.

[936] Then you get tested.

[937] You have physical proof.

[938] Your testosterone is low.

[939] The doctor, who's probably unscrupulous, says, yeah, this young man needs testosterone.

[940] Yeah, that's unfortunate because, you know, martial arts shouldn't be about, you know, how physically strong or superior you are to someone.

[941] I think it should be about the technique and skill work.

[942] Right.

[943] That's why I started anyway.

[944] Right.

[945] I mean.

[946] Do you get, like, a special satisfaction of beating a guy who's physically superior to you, like you said, like Tyron Woodley?

[947] Big time, man. Because naturally, I'm not supposed to be better.

[948] I shouldn't be able to kick his ass.

[949] But now with the training and the martial arts that I've learned and the skill that I spend my whole life working towards, I'm able to do that.

[950] I'm able to conquer that.

[951] So it's a special piece of satisfaction for you.

[952] For sure.

[953] So if you took the average person who doesn't know anything about martial arts and they looked at Woodley and they looked at you and they say, all right, who you bet on.

[954] Everyone tells me, Everyone tells me, he's like, I thought you were going to get fucking steamrolled, but I would everyone.

[955] Why wouldn't you?

[956] And like, uh, like, just like, um, family members that would like watch the highlight video, they see my highlight.

[957] I'm like jabbing people, like, maybe picking up, slamming them or something.

[958] It's an impressive highlight, but you look at Tyrone's.

[959] It's just like one shot, chaos, everyone, like everyone's just sleeping, getting knocked out.

[960] He's an intimidating figure.

[961] you're right yeah he's a powerful dude now there's certain styles and approaches when it comes to striking and attacking and you are uh very technical in your approach like you have to be yeah but you have a but you have knock out power though i mean you yeah you knocked out saffodine i mean sephanine is a tough motherfucker you i believe you're the first guy to ever stop him yeah i have no idea pretty sure you know so you are capable of doing it yeah definitely but like When you hear guys, like, there was a, there was a dude that I know that I read his Twitter once.

[962] And he's a nice guy, but he's, like, on his Twitter, he wrote something like, fuck, technical, striking, you know, just stand in the middle of Octon and let it rip.

[963] What are you saying?

[964] Hockey fight kind of?

[965] I guess.

[966] I mean, I don't, I mean, it was the idea was just, like, test your cahones.

[967] Right.

[968] Go mono, a motto.

[969] I'm a big fan of strategy and technique and tech.

[970] fighting and that's one of the reasons why i'm a big fan of you is you you have a very intelligent approach to to fighting now when you when you fight a guy that is just a a bull rusher like a not saying that woodley doesn't have technique but he will explode on you and he tries to finish shit with one shot he tries to sprint things like do you do you have a specific strategy that you use for a guy like that or do you just go with the flow i go with the flow and i i think that mastering the techniques that you need to use against a fighter like that is important not like thinking oh i have to do this this and this against him i think just working techniques in every situation possible for a long period of time you'll be able to you'll be able to apply it in a in the situation so i like to react like i try not to think about too much about what my opponent's good at or what he's going to do i just like to work on all different kinds of technique, master them, and react to what's in front of me at that particular time.

[971] So when you're training for a guy like Safini, do you watch tape on him?

[972] No. No. I never watch anything.

[973] I didn't watch J .T. I don't watch Tyrone.

[974] I didn't watch anyone.

[975] Wow.

[976] Yeah.

[977] That's interesting.

[978] Why, though?

[979] I don't find it beneficial to me at all.

[980] That's fascinating.

[981] Yeah.

[982] But what if J .T. had some really bizarre attack?

[983] You like to do, like, you know, Cyborx, Tornado Guard or some shit like that?

[984] You don't want to be aware of that at all?

[985] Well, I think if I'm training what I, all the techniques I'm training it all the time, I think if I master those, I'll be able to overcome that, you know?

[986] I don't know how to explain it exactly.

[987] That's not a very good explanation.

[988] Some guys study tendencies, and it's a very big part of their game, is studying tendencies and finding openings.

[989] Does Saffirass do that, or does Donahir do that for you?

[990] no i just kind of you know i'm i learn one technique at a time and i piece it together i think over the years and when you master it you're able to just apply it in the situation you know you learn your defenses to certain moves but right if that guy's really good at it or whatever you know you maybe work that defense a little more yeah well that's why i'm surprised that you wouldn't like i'm not i'm not a believer in footage because you know maybe my opponent will change you know i don't know i'm just not into it now i could fight a guy that's 600 pounds one day and 100 pounds the next day i should be able to overcome any any style of fighter that's fascinating so when you compete you're essentially just putting all of your skill and martial arts knowledge on the line and that's what you like yeah yeah exactly that's a better description of it did you always knew that that you wanted to be an M .MA fighter?

[991] Well, once I started training martial arts, yeah, the first day.

[992] I was telling Ariel Homania in my last interview, yeah, pretty much my first day of martial arts.

[993] You just knew you're going to be a fighter?

[994] Yeah.

[995] Is there anything else that's ever attracted you like that before?

[996] Yeah, hockey.

[997] I was really into hockey as a young kid, and then when I found martial arts, I just dropped out of that.

[998] That's an interesting thing about some fighters, is they're not into sports at all.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] Because fights are so compelling.

[1001] Yeah, it just takes it.

[1002] over everything well so it's also so much on the line it's so much crazier when you watch a live ufc fight you watch some chaotic wild fucking fight it's just the amount of investment that you have in it the the nerves and the excitement and they like just watching it just watching it it's so much more intense than any other sporting event yeah yeah for sure everyone can understand it too no one needs to know the rules or anything everyone knows what's going on right away The only issue is when it goes to the ground.

[1003] Like sometimes when it goes to the ground.

[1004] And more technical situations, yeah.

[1005] That's why you find there's a lot of booing.

[1006] And now that the technical striking is coming in, a lot of people aren't enjoying that.

[1007] Yes.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] You're seeing, it's like waves.

[1010] It's really interesting how you see, like, there was the Mark Coleman wave where the big, powerful wrestlers were taking guys down, ground and pounding.

[1011] And then there was the kickboxer wave.

[1012] There's a jiu -jitsu wave.

[1013] And now it seems like it's so.

[1014] so varied.

[1015] There's so many different approaches and strategies going on now.

[1016] You know, you're seeing wrestler style, and then you're seeing, like, you know, guys like T .J. Dillashaw and Dominic Cruz that are accentuating the movement more.

[1017] It's like so much more movement now.

[1018] Like, if you watch Dominic's fight with Mitsugaki, there's so much more movement angles in just in that one round.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Giant, right?

[1021] Movement's giant.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] I'm a big believer in it.

[1024] Well, when you see guys that are flat -footed and they have this very particular moitai style is that bum you out is it like doesn't bum me out but i mean i used to fight like that did you i mean i used to fight like that did you i was just like i have one direction it's straightforward i'm not gonna go i'm not gonna back up you know and then i kind of open my mind to new things and yeah you have to be open -minded and because every opponent's gonna give you a different reaction you know it's gonna it's gonna require a different solution yeah i also it's like there's something poetic about the ability to faint and you you add in all these variables when you add in movement that aren't there when a guy is like this flat -footed approach yeah like Connor McGregor in uh one of his interviews like this last post -fight interview i i asked him you know i said we was talking about poir and i said you said he was basic like what did you mean by that yeah that's what he was saying it's like this this plotting moitai style that everybody does yeah and then you see conner he opens up with like a front leg hook kick yeah yeah he does a lot of wild shit yeah yeah i like his style it's super cool his style and then his personality is like a weird combination you know like his style i think is very cool as well yeah but like what do you think about a guy like that talks so much shit and gets all this attention what do you think about that i you do you pretty much do the opposite yeah but for some reason i kind of like it you like it but do you see yourself emulating no never never this is not me and i think he's being him and i think that's so awesome you know he's able to go there and he's able to uh express himself on the mic and in his fighting you know i think that's that's that's amazing i'm happy for him right but i saw like i saw the influence of that in the Dennis Bermudez Ricardo Lama's fight because they're in the same division but before the fight they were talking all this mad shit and like these guys never do that title shot right well they want the title shot they want the attention and they also see but it also people can realize people can recognize when people are forcing it and trying to be something they're not it's the worst right it's way better to do what you're doing yeah do be you and I think people will recognize what you're good at and recognize the special things about yourself you know just be you and be you to the fullest i think connor's great at that he's not shy he's just he's him he's not scared about pissing people off or uh stepping over people you know he's doing his thing yeah no he's he's definitely doing his thing he's a he's a freaky cat in a lot of ways yeah the guys had four fights in the ufc and can fill up a fucking soccer stadium you know it's crazy right he can man if he fights in ireland if he beats dennisiever and his next fight is in Ireland against a big fighter.

[1025] If it's Aldo for the title in Ireland, they might light that whole country on fire.

[1026] They might literally smash every building and light the entire country in a truck and bridge.

[1027] And he's only been around for a little bit.

[1028] It's crazy.

[1029] Four fights.

[1030] Four fights in the UFC.

[1031] That's bizarre.

[1032] It's crazy.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] It's no wrestlers though.

[1035] He hasn't fought any wrestlers.

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] He moves really well, though, so that's that'll be something you know wrestlers will have to overcome i want to see him versus frankie edgar that's what i want to say that's a good fight that's what i want for christmas that's a great frankie edger car he's so good too and he's his uh penetration shot is so good he is so fucking relentless too yeah yeah i was so blown away by his fight with cubs watson i thought that was going to be a very difficult fight for both fighters yeah and he just overwhelmed him yeah i like frankie yeah i love that that fucking pace he puts on and you see that pace from the moment he comes in he runs to the fucking octagon and he's just he's in that mindset like she's just gonna start running yeah you know in the energizer bunny yeah fuck man he's a beast and he's in a guy who's notorious for training like a fucking wild man notorious like what doing press obligations all that shit sneaking in workouts and wild you know energetic workouts also his coach mark henry is like very fucking diligent about notes and like Brendan Schaub trained with him for a while okay they got fucking notes on everything and page after page after page notes you know and you see he's constantly working on things and constantly getting better I'm really impressed by Frankie I mean the BJ Penn fight was really impressive but I was I was skeptical about BJ going down to 145 first of all I was like the fight before that he fought me right 70 what's this crazy fucking nuts what is his What was it like fighting that guy?

[1038] That ought to be a weird thing for you because you know he's in the wrong way.

[1039] It was weird because, you know, I've watched BJ since I was a kid and I always loved BJ.

[1040] I was like, man, this guy is so good, you know, he's so cool.

[1041] He's such a, you know, he's so raw.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] Right?

[1044] He's just hard -nosed, just wants to get in there and fight anyone.

[1045] He fought my cheetah.

[1046] Yeah, what the fuck?

[1047] At heavyweight.

[1048] He's a beast.

[1049] It was over 205, so it's technically a heavyweight.

[1050] At the same time, he was talking so much shit about me and he pissed me off and I just wanted to eat him.

[1051] alive so it was like a mixture of emotions well you hurt him standing probably more than anybody ever did you had him in a lot of trouble yeah yeah yeah he's tough he wouldn't go down didn't even drop to a knee no he's tough as shit yeah he's definitely tough as shit but it's hard to watch him take those kind of beatings you know yeah yeah and then the frankie edgar beating after that it's it's hard because i mean i don't know who to believe you know you hear mike Dolce's take on his camp and then you hear BJ's taking his camp it's like I don't hear it I don't know but I know that BJ when he was with the Marinovich's and he's doing a bunch of shit that he didn't want to do right when he was super uncomfortable and like constantly sore but then you look at what the fuck he did to Diego Sanchez and you look at that BJ the Sean Shirk BJ right he was a motherfucker at 155 yeah and that this desire to go down to featherweight I just didn't understand it's a bit weird yeah weird yeah i don't know what it is you know just reinventing himself or trying to figure out one new thing yeah it sucks to see a guy like that and the last bit of his career is just went well it's be hard to deal with what do you think about Anderson Silva like he's very skilled obviously love his movement but when you see him two losses in a row both kind of freaky yeah yeah wideman though you know he's the real deal I knew wideman was going to give him a hard fight.

[1052] I train with Weidman here and there.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] Yeah, he's a tank, this guy.

[1055] Yeah, he's a beast.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] Well, he's a weird guy, too.

[1058] And he just took out Machita, and I thought Machita would be his hardest fight at that way, harder than Madison.

[1059] And he overcame it.

[1060] It was a difficult fight, though.

[1061] I mean, he got put in trouble.

[1062] He got put in trouble.

[1063] Big time.

[1064] Yeah, Machita's a dangerous guy, and Machita's another guy who utilizes that strange stance.

[1065] You know, Machita, he'll incorporate more forward stance, but he'll occasionally go completely sideways on you too yeah you know that karate styles yeah i i like to incorporate a lot of stuff he does too yeah i've always been a fan of him he's excellent at that knee check the knee check to the body catches guys coming in with that knee to the body yeah he does you don't know when it's coming yeah saroni take down defense too is yes his uh his his his backwards movement and to circle out that i like i like that well he did some sumo training too which is kind of interesting so he's really good at like popping his hips forward all right circling away from things you know and he he credits that a lot with his takedown defense yeah which you never think of sumo as like an applicable modern martial martial yeah well you're getting down in your squatted stance right you're able to rotate a lot faster I do that a lot too do you ever use sumo you ever fuck around with it no but um like I've never actually trained sumo but I understand the concepts what you're talking about and I do use that in my wrestling.

[1066] I would like to train it just to wear one of those diapers.

[1067] This big fuck and have some dude try to wedge you the shit out of me and drag me under the ground.

[1068] I watched a wild sumo match the other day because I, um, you know, I watch everything.

[1069] I'll watch amateur wrestling.

[1070] I'll watch karate point tournaments because I think there's something to be learned in point fighting.

[1071] I think there's something about the approach, the initial blitz approach of point fighting that, uh, I forget his name, but there's a guy, an English guy who's fighting in Bellator who's a really good point fighter who is now starting to fight in MMA and there's the the if you think about like the initial approach of the first strikes that are landed right and point fighting it's all about that initial approach it's unrealistic in terms of like a continuous match or five minute round or something like that but that skill of being able to blitz in and charge in is it's very different and very unique yeah blitzing is a huge a huge factor in MMA yeah a lot of A lot of guys are really good at it.

[1072] Hendricks has a great blitz.

[1073] Stephen Thompson.

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] One of the best.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] I think that that is an area where we're going to see some guys make the transition over to MMA that have that and that learn all those other aspects of MMA.

[1078] But it's hard for them.

[1079] They probably have the hardest road in because at least Maitai guys, they're used to continuously fighting.

[1080] They're used to.

[1081] taking shots and countering.

[1082] They used to overcoming obstacles.

[1083] Whereas the karate guys, it's also, the stamina is not nearly as much of a requirement.

[1084] It's such a much more difficult thing to do.

[1085] The grappling is hard for them too.

[1086] Rappling's hard.

[1087] Leg kicks are hard.

[1088] There's a lot.

[1089] But that blitz is undeniably effective.

[1090] That's just, I think, that...

[1091] Do you guys ever incorporate that in training?

[1092] Blitz?

[1093] Oh, yeah.

[1094] Do you do drills for that?

[1095] Or do you ever, like, do point fighting?

[1096] Yeah, when Steven used to come up to help George, they showed a lot of his blitz style and how to do that.

[1097] So, yeah, we've taken some of their drills for that, for sure.

[1098] When you train for a fight, like, say, if you have an eight -week training camp and it starts out, do you have, like, it's set up where, like, this type, you know, will, like, get, we'll break things down during this period, this period would be, like, more of a build -up period, and then, like, when do you taper off?

[1099] everyone's kind of different like uh you're always excited when you first start camp right so it always starts explosive then your body starts to break down so you need to be able to do a little bit shorter sessions and like short but explosive so yeah there is periods of times where like farther away from the fight they're longer sessions but less explosive and intensive you know more technical approach and drilling and stuff and then the closer it gets that more time cut down the more just like the hard sparring and work and then uh right before the fight um it's really short you know it's just it's just the short sparrings um the rolling sessions things like that maybe some drilling and some pads but in between that but not long do you ever fuck around with cryotherapy have you done that yet what's cryotherapy again i know oh that's another thing i might i might have done this i got to get you in there you go and you go and went to this box 250 degrees below zero yeah you put a face mask on your mouse did you yeah i did this for my last fight really uh yeah they um at this at my osteopass clinic they got one and uh i started using it is it neck down or is it a full body yeah you got to go to the full body yeah i've done both but the the problem with the neck down one is they don't really get your upper shoulders and your neck i have to squat down and hold my breath yes yeah exactly it's annoying it's annoying yeah this one they have in l a l .a there's a couple of them across the country but the one they have in l .a. is insane okay it's full body and i go there all the time i'll take you okay it's amazing okay guys swear Eddie bravo turned me on to it he fucking swears by it he goes several times a week right and when he was training for the hoyla gracie match he was going every day right he said i couldn't do it without it he's like i need it to recover yeah it really speeds things up my muscular soreness went way down it's amazing yeah like you You could have, like, incredibly sore muscles from weightlifting or, you know, hill sprints and shit like that.

[1100] And you go in there and it just floods it out some way.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] They explained it to me. I'm not, I can't scientifically explain what the details is.

[1103] But somebody was telling me, that shit doesn't work.

[1104] And so I was like, damn, am I an idiot?

[1105] Am I fucking falling for some, but then I. Some placebo stuff?

[1106] The science on it.

[1107] The science is 100 % legit.

[1108] Because your body thinks it's fucking dying.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] You're going 250 degrees below zero for three minutes.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] Your body's like, oh, we're fucked.

[1113] This is, and your body tries to preserve itself by pulling all the blood into your internal organs.

[1114] And then once you get out into room temperature, it just floods it back out.

[1115] And apparently, there's like some intense anti -inflammatory response that comes out of that.

[1116] That is amazing for healing.

[1117] That is apparently the number one issue when it comes to injury and even disease is inflammation.

[1118] Right.

[1119] And they're saying that anti -inflammatory response.

[1120] and anti -inflammatory, like, diets that don't promote inflammation, like low -sugar diets.

[1121] Apparently, sugar is terrible for inflammation.

[1122] This is all discovered or all a part of what that whole regenerine thing is all about.

[1123] I'm sure you've heard of that.

[1124] That's like what Weidman had done on his knees.

[1125] Dana White talked about it.

[1126] It's a blood -spinning procedure.

[1127] Oh, yeah.

[1128] You know about that?

[1129] It's kind of like that PRP, but, like, More intense, right?

[1130] Yeah, Dana told me about that.

[1131] Exactly.

[1132] I did PRP on my ankles.

[1133] Did you?

[1134] Because I had bad ankles last year.

[1135] They were fucked up.

[1136] From grappling or from...

[1137] One was wrestling.

[1138] I tore my tendons before the Robbie Loller fight.

[1139] Oh, wow.

[1140] And then after that fight, I smashed up this one.

[1141] And then I fought Damien Maya.

[1142] Damn.

[1143] I had to get...

[1144] PRP helped it, though.

[1145] Now, like you say, you tore it, you tore it all the way through or partial tear?

[1146] I think it was a partial, but I couldn't, like, I couldn't, like, walk on it.

[1147] For how long?

[1148] Pretty much the whole camp.

[1149] Holy shit.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] How'd you get through camp?

[1152] Sucked it up?

[1153] Yeah.

[1154] Did you tape the shit out of your uncle?

[1155] It was shit, yeah.

[1156] Yeah, I had a brace, and then I taped over the brace.

[1157] Wow.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] Did you consider pulling out of the fight?

[1160] I should have, probably.

[1161] Really?

[1162] Yeah, but at that point in time, like, I'd been, like, pulling out of every second fight, it seemed like, because of injury.

[1163] You know, it was like the Carlos.

[1164] fight the BJ Penn fight and then before that I had some other small before I was like less well known I had some other fights I was like I can't pull out of this fight you know it's too big isn't that just a part of the game though I mean it seems like you just have to push through yeah and and a lot of fans don't recognize that because not a lot of people want to speak about their excuses for losing and stuff like that he's he's gonna take it you know you're never going to be 100 % as a fighter and you just have to you have to deal with that you just got to know what is okay to push through and what you need to set like torn ACL things along those lines where your knee gives out has lost stability yeah i mean i could still stand up and throw punches and do takedown so i mean i'm not i was still able to fight it was just painful is that what it was yeah restricted certain things but i was still able to fight now when you have like an injury like that do you just figure out a way to train around it do you yeah yeah obviously the training is not can be as good right right so how do you compensate as far as like your conditioning i pretty much rode a bike for the whole time really yeah a bike or air dine like um yeah an air dine and yeah like a regular stationary bike just doing sprints and yeah tobottas and stuff i couldn't swim i couldn't do a lot of stuff i do i do i like to do a lot of agility work athletic agility and stuff and footwork and stuff and that i wasn't able to do any of that obviously george got big into gymnastics did you wind up doing any of that i did it i did it with them him and faraz for a while and i never got i never stayed with it i might start more later on like later on but um i felt it was more beneficial for me at that point of time to to to work more with uh john chenberg rather than more of the dynamic movement and stuff my my base wasn't there you know athletically right and chamber has been your strength and conditioning coach for a while he does george as well well not anymore but doesn't no i think george just kind of floats around he george does uh takes a similar approach as me it's like if you're efficient in your movements and your skill work and your technique you don't really more important than this just cardio and your heart rate yeah I mean because efficiency is huge right and when you're efficient you you put out less energy and it's easier like have you seen a guy who's like a really good boxer boxing guy who doesn't know what he's doing like you barely even breaks a sweat yeah because you can just keep moving and loose and your body's normal it's like your body's used to doing it yeah yeah that's that's my belief but there is a factor of being well -conditioned also sure at that high of a level when you have two efficient fighters you know at the highest level you need to be in good condition have you ever had a fight at altitude um yeah is calgary calgary at altitude maybe I'm not sure I heard Calgary is and I fought there a couple of times I don't know I'm not sure though I don't think anything like Denver anything like Mexico City was fucking bananas Oh, yeah?

[1165] 7 ,300 feet above sea level.

[1166] That's 2 ,000 feet above Boulder.

[1167] Were people showing any...

[1168] Oh, yeah.

[1169] Yeah, Hunt did.

[1170] But Hunt took the fight on three weeks' notice.

[1171] Verdoom had lived up there for a couple months.

[1172] Oh, okay.

[1173] And trained up there.

[1174] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1175] I mean, Hunt struggled against Ben Rothwell in Denver, which is 2 ,000 feet lower.

[1176] So, um, tough fight for him, you know, take on three weeks notice.

[1177] Yeah, that is a tough fight.

[1178] Do you find yourself staying at 170, or do you think you'll ever move?

[1179] You're going to move up to 185?

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] Not because I have to.

[1182] I've talked about it before.

[1183] It's not because I have to.

[1184] It's just sort of curiosity and the experience to fight bigger guys.

[1185] But I want to do what I have to do at this division first.

[1186] So if you win the title at 170, then you move up.

[1187] Yeah, I'll probably still fight at Welterweight too.

[1188] Really?

[1189] Go back and forth?

[1190] Yeah, because, I mean, it's easy for me to make Welterweight.

[1191] So I'll probably, if I can, if I could fight enough, the year and ufc is cool with it so essentially for you your motivation is challenges you want to keep things interesting and challenge yourself yeah yeah for sure i want to overcome obstacles and test myself and find out who i really am do you ever see yourself competing in straight kickboxing or more time yeah i thought about it maybe you know branching off and doing stuff like that maybe a boxing fight eventually and stuff like that that would be probably pretty hard for the ufc to agree you though yeah but who knows at that what point i'll do that it won't be anytime soon yeah because rampage has talked about doing that recently he's talked about just leaving mma and and box oh really yeah i would never do that it would be like how i'm competing in metamores yeah but i just don't see like the ufc ever letting you yeah but maybe i won't be fighting mhm at that point maybe i'll be 40 and i'll be 40 and take on some loitai fights yeah who knows really yeah so you're just a free spirit just let going with the flow and yeah are you enjoying this life you got a wild fucking life man yeah it's fun sometimes it's boring as hell but what's boring as hell the benotony training caps yeah i like to just always be doing something that's another thing my girlfriend has a hard time dealing with it's like i can't just sit here i have to be doing something well that's got to be what part of what makes you successful yeah probably the fact that you have this constant drive yeah Yeah, I have a lot of, a lot of drive for sure.

[1192] Do you read any motivational shit, or do you get motivated by anything?

[1193] No, no. I watch a lot of, we'll watch a lot of stuff, you know, footage and martial arts stuff.

[1194] That motivates me, I guess.

[1195] But nothing, like, you know, art of war or any of that shit.

[1196] I have an audiobook of Sun Tzu.

[1197] Do you?

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] Do you listen to it?

[1200] Yes, I'm done.

[1201] On the way to training?

[1202] No, not really, just kind of randomly.

[1203] Oh, okay.

[1204] What about Musashi?

[1205] You ever fuck around with the Book of Five Rings?

[1206] No, never heard of it.

[1207] I found it to be more applicable than Art of War.

[1208] The Art of War, all the strategy stuff I thought was really interesting, but a lot of it is about actual warfare.

[1209] Yeah, it's not head -to -hand combat.

[1210] Right, whereas Miyamoto Musashi was a samurai, and so a lot of his stuff was about one -on -one competition.

[1211] That would make more sense, yeah.

[1212] And it was also recognizing, yeah, this is who I have on my arm.

[1213] Oh, yeah?

[1214] Yeah.

[1215] i've seen this guy before well he was this great samurai fought 62 men in uh one -on -one combat killed them all just fucked sword swords he could he would get bored so he would uh take on people with wooden swords they would have a metal sword he would use a wooden one yeah he killed a guy with an oar is this is this fantasy or no no no no what arrow was this i believe it was a 1400s wow yeah he and he would kill them yeah oh yeah he killed everybody go rid no show old you show up with a sword he beats you over the head with a fucking oar he would he would he would widow the oars down i want to say what year was that i want to say it was the 1400s let's see miltomoto musashi it was um 1584 yeah he died in 1645 how he was 61 years old natural causes probably stomach cancer they're saying hmm wonder why it says that yeah but his book is fascinating because he was really into a big part of his philosophy was about staying balanced okay about keeping the mind balanced because you know sword fighting such a fucking unbelievably intense and stressful scenario yeah that he was all about balancing out your life with art and philosophy and poetry and even calligraphy i mean it wasn't about just being this brute it was all about balancing the mind so that there was no extraneous stress that all everything was about the the technique being clean the mind being sharp that makes a lesson yeah and everything was completely balanced he's a fascinating guy yeah but i believe in balance in your life too i'd like to read that Do you have hobbies other than the MMA?

[1216] I like hunting.

[1217] I've just got into that.

[1218] I just got my hunting license this year.

[1219] Just this year?

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Where have you hunted?

[1222] Well, I just went up in B .C. Well, what are it?

[1223] Princeton.

[1224] Yeah, Princeton area.

[1225] Did you get anything?

[1226] We got a rabbit.

[1227] That's it?

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] Is that the first time you've hunted?

[1230] As an adult, yeah.

[1231] As a kid, my dad and my grandpa always took me in my brother out but uh you know as an adult this is this was like the first time i've had an opportunity but i'm going to go a lot next year um i got a lot of friends that go like elk hunting and stuff and that's awesome i've got a few different offers from some friends that want to take me out and some trips it's going to be amazing well that's the cool thing about being a famous person as soon as people find out that you're into hunting like i want to go hunt with rory mcdon yeah that helps out how to take you yeah oh that'll definitely yeah i got some buddies that are really big into it so A lot of UFC fighters Yeah Chad Mendez He killed his first elk this year With a bow He killed a deer too TJ TJ killed a huge Fucking bear last year And put it on social media And everybody got angry at him Did he eat it?

[1232] Yeah Yeah People are fucking crazy Yeah They think you're killing Boo Boo and he's in the middle He's in the middle of taking picnic baskets And speaking English And he went up and fucking murder him They don't understand balance And ecosystem and all that stuff you got to educate themselves before yeah well there's a lot of convenience and they're thinking too it's so easy to just look at someone you mean i had a guy got it got upset with me because i shot a bear and he was wearing leather shoes i had this conversation with him like you know how crazy this conversation so ignorant man yeah and and and a lot of them think uh it's cruel it's like but the meat you're eating at the supermarket do you know cruel they're treating those animals like it's insane what's also the getting upset at someone for hunting when you're You're driving by restaurants, left and right, you know, fast food joints, supermarkets on pretty much every crowded street that you drive down.

[1233] Everywhere you look, there's animals that have been killed.

[1234] It's just, it's a ridiculous thing to concentrate on a hunter who takes it in the most natural way possible.

[1235] Lack of education, maybe.

[1236] Well, insulation.

[1237] There's a lot of it, you know.

[1238] I mean, there's ignorance.

[1239] I'm sure you deal with a parallel or similar kind of in ignorance when it comes to fighting.

[1240] because when you tell people that you're a fighter they probably assume you're some thuggish asshole and you're like wait a minute this guy is like so like even killed like i don't do you get that sometimes or people like they don't understand why you are so calm and normal but yet you're yeah elite world class fighter yeah i guess so yeah there's some situations yeah they don't they're like it's kind of um counterintuitive yeah yeah exactly yeah do you do you ever have people like judge you because of the fact that you're a fighter?

[1241] Not so much.

[1242] Most of the people now, it's super popular, right?

[1243] Right.

[1244] They're like, oh, it's cool.

[1245] But seven years ago, it probably wasn't so much.

[1246] Oh, yeah, when I was like 14?

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] What was that like?

[1249] They're like, why are you doing this?

[1250] Go to school, get a real job, you know?

[1251] Like, you're never going to make any money.

[1252] I'm like, I bet you probably will.

[1253] I'll make more money doing this than, you know, working construction or something.

[1254] Well, now people realize that it's a viable career option.

[1255] Back then, it wasn't.

[1256] It wasn't popular.

[1257] It is kind of a crazy thing if you think about people that entered into it when it wasn't very profitable.

[1258] Like, boy, you have to really love it.

[1259] Yeah, those guys.

[1260] I'm so thankful for, like, the graces and the guys in the first UFCs and, you know, Randy, Tito, all these guys, man. Dan Anderson, still at.

[1261] Yeah, he's still at it.

[1262] Oh, man, that guy's...

[1263] He's fighting Musassi.

[1264] He doesn't get enough credit, this guy.

[1265] Oh, it's a fucking animal.

[1266] He's one of the toughest guys that's ever walked the face of the planet.

[1267] Yeah.

[1268] You know, and his last fight with Cormier, you know.

[1269] But, kind of like basically two or three weight glasses are bigger than him?

[1270] Dan, Ragdald.

[1271] Yeah.

[1272] Yeah, it's, um...

[1273] Crazy.

[1274] It was so important for those guys to have that passion to pursue this.

[1275] And those guys really should be heralded as the true pioneers that they were.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] You know, even though Hoyst Gracie says a bunch of crazy shit today, like you said, a bunch of crazy shit about Eddie Bravo's, you know, my best friend, I still have nothing but love and respect for that guy.

[1278] Because if it wasn't for Royce Gracie, I would have never done Jiu -Jitsu.

[1279] I would have never know what it was.

[1280] If that guy didn't have the balls to step in there and fight guys like Dan Sever and you see him catch a guy on a triangle and you're like, what the fuck just happened?

[1281] That opened my eyes so much to what martial arts, you know, what the real potential for martial arts could be.

[1282] We've seen martial arts evolve so much just in a couple of decades.

[1283] Yeah, 20 years.

[1284] Yeah, it's insane.

[1285] More than over the last thousand years.

[1286] You know, it's crazy the amount it's changed.

[1287] Yeah, I mean, I was competing in the 80s, man, and nobody knew anything.

[1288] Everybody thought that if somebody tried to wrestle you, you just fucking catch them with a punch and knock them out.

[1289] Everybody thought they would just head kick people.

[1290] They were on the way to, you didn't realize how easy it would be for you to get smashed.

[1291] Nobody had an idea.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] I love talking, like, back in the day, like my old kickboxing coach and stuff, you're like, just knee him in the head.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] I had a boxing coach that would say, man, anybody tries to take me down.

[1296] I'll sidestep uppercut.

[1297] That was this whole thing.

[1298] Sidestep uppercut.

[1299] I'm like, yeah, what if they're shooting at your legs?

[1300] It's not necessarily a bad idea, but making it practical is a whole other thing.

[1301] Yeah.

[1302] This is one dude was explaining to me that he didn't need to learn martial arts because, man, you know what I do?

[1303] I'll kick somebody's fucking knee out.

[1304] I'm like, I'm going to show you some fights.

[1305] I want to show you Alster Overeign versus B. rothwell and uh that knee kick thing doesn't really work that well all the time and it's not great be amazed how durable your knee is and how many shots to the leg your your knee can kick do you fuck around with that oblique kick do you do that thing uh the the like the inside way yeah no not really into it that's a kick that's kind of made a comeback over the last few years yeah it's a lot of the great jackson guys do it yeah because you used to see that in those old like wing chung books yeah You know, they would throw a lot that weird kick.

[1306] And I was like, ooh, that's a goofy kick.

[1307] Yeah, that's a bit different.

[1308] But you see, like, Carlos Condit likes to do it a lot.

[1309] John Jones likes to do it a lot.

[1310] It's a good kick if you learn it correctly.

[1311] Yeah, Jones is effectively with his other strikes, too.

[1312] Brace guys down and then pop, pop, pop.

[1313] He's so fucking tall, too.

[1314] Yeah.

[1315] That's such a huge advantage.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] Yeah, I haven't played with it, you know, but I don't rule it out.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] No, I think it's a really excellent technique.

[1320] It is a kick I like that comes from the same kind of angle, but it's a head kick.

[1321] Crescent?

[1322] Are your crescent kick?

[1323] No, it's like, it goes up to the, you know how like I do like this front kick?

[1324] Mm -hmm.

[1325] You know?

[1326] Do you do with the heel?

[1327] You know, you just come up on that side with your back leg.

[1328] Oh, I see what you're saying.

[1329] Yeah, it's kind of a weird kick.

[1330] So you're kind of, it's like a misdirection sort of a thing?

[1331] Like they think it's coming and you just.

[1332] Yeah, it goes like, it's your back leg.

[1333] Mm -hmm.

[1334] So it comes out this way.

[1335] but it ends up, like, coming up at a weird angle.

[1336] Hmm.

[1337] Like a C, right?

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] Hmm.

[1340] That's sort of the opposite, maybe, of the question mark kick.

[1341] It's the exact opposite, yeah.

[1342] I love that question mark kick.

[1343] Yeah, it's cool.

[1344] It's such a, you know, the Brazilian kick for some people.

[1345] Like, um, was it, Globe Faitosa made that famous?

[1346] Yeah.

[1347] Fetosa was a beast of it.

[1348] God damn.

[1349] He, and he used to bring it down.

[1350] Yeah.

[1351] He was so flexible.

[1352] You come way out and whack.

[1353] Oh, my God.

[1354] There's some amazing photos of him doing that online.

[1355] That's a classic Kyokishin technique.

[1356] And Taekwondo as well, that's where I learned it.

[1357] Taekwondo guys used to do it.

[1358] But before they used to call it the Brazilian kick, it was always known as the question mark.

[1359] Yeah.

[1360] That's such a beautiful.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] We used to call it fake front kick round kick.

[1363] That's what we used to call it in Taekwondo.

[1364] But, you know, this idea of misdirection.

[1365] Like you see it so often, too, with wrestling, where guys will fake a shot and then land a punch instead.

[1366] You know, there's so much misdirection.

[1367] and fighting to try yeah faints faints faints are giant when you see guys that don't faint and guys that just plow forward with no no misdirection no fainting whatsoever yeah one of the most successful guys is george yes yeah very much so george was great and it still is uh at you never knew what the fuck he was going to do yeah it's crazy people would just be like locked up i don't know if he's going to shoot he's going to jab me uh he's going to kick me like yeah yeah George was also great at utilizing the momentum that he got up to being a champ and just carrying that forward.

[1368] He was so comfortable with the experience of fighting in a high -profile bout that you would see guys that were fighting them.

[1369] They were just so caught up in the bright lights in the moment.

[1370] And then, boom, he's taking him down.

[1371] Boom, he's dropping elbows on him.

[1372] You know, it's just he was relentless.

[1373] One of the greatest martial arts, martial arts that ever lived?

[1374] Ever, my opinion.

[1375] and a great representative of martial arts too because he was such a good guy and he is such a good guy spoke really well yeah yeah I'm happy that he got out when he did and you know selfishly in some ways I hope he stays out because yeah I think it I think he still has it in him though I think he does too but that's what I worry about I hate seeing a guy to stay too long like the thing that bugs me more than anything is talking the guys that have been in fights for you know or in in mMA for a long time and i see the deterioration that that's hard to watch i think if he's patient with it this time you know with this this knee surgery coming back slowly enjoying the training and then maybe a year or two years down the road and he has that he's back to where he was or you know where he needs to be could be interesting well it certainly could be interesting because he'll having fun with it again right for the longest time i know george wasn't having fun fighting right he's doing it because it was pressure and this and that right well he was up to that incredibly high level too where he's making so much fucking money i mean he's making more money than anybody his pay -per -views were so high he's doing really well and he had endorsements and he again he's such a great representative that people would like scramble to to have him sponsor their product or to sponsor him rather right but i i just think that there's a certain amount of punishment you can take in your career and that past that you know there's a point of no return you know and I worry about that because he's so well spoken it's such a good guy I worry about guys getting to that point in no return is that something that ever comes into your mind no doesn't bother me but when you see like these studies on traumatic brain injuries in NFL players and yeah I'm not an NFL player Well, even in fighters.

[1376] You hear about it in fighters as well.

[1377] Yeah, I think it also has to do with certain styles of fighters, though.

[1378] Mm -hmm.

[1379] I think guys like me take a lot less damage.

[1380] Right.

[1381] If I fought like I did against Carlos in all my fights, I'd have a short career, and then I'd probably have to be concerned with some effects down the road.

[1382] Right.

[1383] Like a Forrest Griffin style.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] Forrest Griffin versus Stephan Bonner.

[1386] If you look at my fights or the statistics of my fight, I don't get hit much.

[1387] Right.

[1388] you know so it's it's not a huge issue for me well you're good defensively when you do get hit too like you were one of the few guys like robbie tagged you but you figured out a way to maintain your cool yeah stay calm man is that the most you were hurt in a modern fight yeah yeah i was okay though you know i wasn't uh i i i was definitely hurt like the shot bang it gave me like a you know my eyes went back or whatever and I fell down but I remember I was thinking clearly through the whole thing and I remember my legs being so tired at that point of the fight that I just needed to go down you know so I think I think actually um uh the more scrap the bigger hit for me was the carlos conant fight hit me in the temple the top of the head and I was just like so scrambled man yeah it's weird how different spots in your head will do isn't it?

[1389] Yeah, the side of the head, too, is really good at the temple.

[1390] I like to target that area.

[1391] It does something weird to equilibrium, right?

[1392] Yeah.

[1393] Yeah, if you look at my knockout against Pyle and Saffidine, it was pretty much similar.

[1394] I finished them.

[1395] I got them on four points, and I would give them shots to the temple, sitting over top of them.

[1396] And when they both got up, they did the same thing.

[1397] They would get up, and they would think they would find their legs would give out.

[1398] Right.

[1399] And they keep going back and four side to side and they have to have a guy hold them up.

[1400] I think there's something to say about that shot, that impact there.

[1401] Yeah, we were just talking on, like someone was talking online.

[1402] We were talking about, like, what shots hurt guys and what shots don't hurt guys.

[1403] There's no rhyme or reason to it.

[1404] Like sometimes you'll see a guy get caught with like a grazing shot to the forehead and his legs would just give out.

[1405] Right.

[1406] Yeah, Connor McGregor was kind of like that.

[1407] With Poria.

[1408] Yeah, perfect example.

[1409] I kind of just like hit him there.

[1410] Yeah, it's interesting.

[1411] Yeah, Connor hits fucking hard.

[1412] For that weight class, it's crazy.

[1413] He hits very hard for that weight class.

[1414] I always wonder if he's going to stay at 145 or if it becomes too much of a struggle.

[1415] Yeah, he says that it's hard for him, huh, to get there?

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] Who impresses you these days?

[1418] Like, do you, like, who do you like watching?

[1419] I've been watching a lot of Ronda Rousey or judo.

[1420] I want to get good at that.

[1421] uh conner's movement uh punching style it's interesting how he keeps his chin up in the air a little bit but um his uppercats and his movement after that cool he's a very good boxer how he mixes things up yeah with uh you know his elbows and his distance and stuff like that ground and pound john's very creative too like i love that move that he did with glover where he ranched his shoulder and uh go you ever done that before and he's like nope just kind of made it up on the spot i knew that it was a vulnerable i knew there was something you're not supposed to do in wrestling yeah and so he just realized that glover had a light underhook just got his forearm behind the elbow and just yanked this shit out of it yeah tore glover's shoulder up crazy yeah yeah you just have to go with the flow i guess be like water like bruce yes exactly i find it fascinating when you see a guy like one of the things i'm really fascinated by is Gustafson and Rumble Johnson.

[1422] Okay.

[1423] Because Rumble Johnson, who was a standout at welterweight, is now fighting 35 pounds heavier.

[1424] How?

[1425] Fucking, he's huge.

[1426] He just dieted the shit out of himself.

[1427] He's a perfect example of you can cut too much weight and it actually fucks you up.

[1428] Like the point of diminishing returns, he had passed that, clearly.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] I don't know how he grew so much.

[1431] Same with Overeem.

[1432] Like, that's crazy.

[1433] Well, I know how Overeem did it.

[1434] Yeah.

[1435] Yeah, well, I think we know how Rumble did it, too.

[1436] I don't know.

[1437] I mean, Rumble was always big.

[1438] Like, Rumble was, I saw Rumble in between fights once, and he was 230 pounds.

[1439] Yeah, you're right.

[1440] You're right.

[1441] I did see him in between fights.

[1442] He was massive.

[1443] I think he was just incredibly disciplined and dieting and starving himself down to 170.

[1444] It's not worth it at that point.

[1445] No. Just fight bigger guys.

[1446] Who cares?

[1447] It fucked him up.

[1448] I mean, when he lost a cost check, he just had nothing.

[1449] nothing in the tank it got to a certain point where his body he was good for a certain amount of effort but his body was so depleted not saying taking anything away from cost check because cost check legitimately beat him but your body when you you have so much depletion there's a certain point in time where your body's like you know what this stops there's nothing left there's nothing left it's just not functioning right right right and at light heavyweight he's a motherfucker man yeah who would want to fight like i i'd have no interest at fighting at 155 Yeah.

[1450] There's zero interest.

[1451] There's a lot of guys do it, man. I'd way rather fight bigger guys.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] I don't have any interest losing that much weight.

[1454] Well, look at Frankie.

[1455] I mean, Frankie, for the longest time when he was a lightweight champion, he was weighing 155 fighting 155.

[1456] Yeah, I know.

[1457] That's funny, huh?

[1458] He barely cuts to make 145.

[1459] He can make 135.

[1460] Really, huh?

[1461] Yeah.

[1462] Oh, 100%.

[1463] I guarantee you he could make 135.

[1464] Yeah.

[1465] It wouldn't be fun, but he could do it.

[1466] Right, right.

[1467] Yeah, that's cool.

[1468] Cool.

[1469] It was a good decision.

[1470] It moved to 45, though.

[1471] Anybody else that is exciting to you?

[1472] There always is, you know?

[1473] I've watched a lot of Bruce Lee.

[1474] Do you really?

[1475] Pretty much every fighter does.

[1476] Yeah, yeah.

[1477] I don't know.

[1478] There's a lot of older guys, too.

[1479] I don't know.

[1480] I'm very random.

[1481] The newer guys, though, I like, I've been watching Connor and Ron.

[1482] a lot lately i love ronda's armbar technique yeah i think her arm bar technique might be the best i've ever seen yeah yeah she's got a great arm off her set -ups and the way she's able to adjust when opponents try to roll out of her her moves like as they try to get out of it she just sinks it in tighter and tighter and tighter and she follows them she's so used to attacking with arm bars that like she kind of knows what they're going to do before they know what they're going to do so as they try to defend she's like one step ahead of them tightening it up even further Jordan burrow I watched a lot of him for wrestling.

[1483] Do you know who he is?

[1484] No. Jordan Burroughs?

[1485] Great American wrestler.

[1486] I think he won Olympics and World Championships.

[1487] A great explosive double.

[1488] Probably one of the best double legs around.

[1489] Interesting.

[1490] Interesting style.

[1491] Watching him and hearing about a lot of his techniques helped me a lot of my wrestling.

[1492] Well, George was really interesting in his wrestling approach because he didn't wrestle in high school, did wrestling college and trained a lot of Russian nationals up there in Montreal, right?

[1493] Yeah, but he trained with, yeah, the Montreal team, yeah.

[1494] Is there a lot of high -level wrestling up there?

[1495] Yeah, I'd say.

[1496] You know, Gia, I can't, I never able to say his last name, Cisori.

[1497] Cisorian.

[1498] I don't know, he's a world champ and I think Olympic silver medalist.

[1499] he's super technical he's helped me a lot with the wrestling i think he's helped george a lot um yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of good wrestlers there and is ferras bring guys like that in does he have like wrestling classes yeah yeah gea comes in and there's also some other wrestlers that come in and there's uh some greco guys that come in now yeah well it's just such an amazing sport i i love mma i just love that there's so much variation There's so many variables to consider There's so many different options And different approaches It's just constantly exciting and interesting to me You know?

[1500] There's so much to learn There is and I love that there's guys like you man That are out there, you're on the edge You know, you're constantly pushing it And just really fun to watch a fight man Thanks, I really appreciate it I really appreciate you coming on here too Yeah, no, it's fun Good conversation And thanks for the plug at the beginning Joe Rutgers podcast, check it out That's Roy McDonald And if people want to follow you on Twitter what is your Twitter it's um Rory underscore MacDonald McDonald's not MC It's MAC yeah You don't want some dude out there Faking it Is there some dude out there Pretending to be you Is anybody?

[1501] Oh yeah I'm sure Oh that's the other thing I had to talk to you about Before we leave The music The fucking music The walking music We've talked about this On the podcast before But there's a great story You changed your phone number And the UFC did know That you had a new phone number So they were texting your old phone number and some other dude who got your number who was a fan was he was picking your walk -in music so when I moved from Colonna BC the small town I was doing martial arts that when I finally made the move to Montreal I had to switch to that the area right the phone number so my old phone number went to this random guy in Colonna and apparently he was a fan of me and um Jason the guy at UFC who was asking for my entrance music just had my old number.

[1502] And so this guy was, he was like, hey, Roy, what entrance music do you want for the next fight?

[1503] And this guy was like, just picked up on it.

[1504] It was like, hmm, pretending to be me. And so he kept giving him my entrance music.

[1505] So for the longest time, I kept walking out to the most random shit.

[1506] The best one was the MC Hammer one, and you made fun of me. You were like, this shit sucks.

[1507] well it was a terrible song you yeah you made fun of me for that who would you fight who was it that you fought mike pile and mike pile came out to some classic song was a rocky it was a because it was in philly we fought in philly oh that's right yeah so i i said it was classic and then mike goldberg was like well this is classic too i go yeah but this song sucks yeah yeah which is kind of a bummer because i saw mc hammer after i said that right i saw him like a couple fights later and he came up to me and said i'm like i feel bad now said your song sucks well it's a song back in the the day but yeah i mean it's not my kind of music but some people like it and apparently this certain fan enjoyed the song i thought i would enjoy it too which songs did you choose here's some songs you had uh metallica seek and destroy me riano's me okay so you picked those all the way up to emcee hammer yeah mc hammer did you pick up uh do puck and biggie was that you that was me that was you that's must that was the one probably where i i caught on to it so mc hammer was the catalyst yeah that was the last one so that was the last one that guy picked and when i i uh the tupac and biggie song yeah that was uh when i fought shay mills and jason came up to me and he's like and it would have continued on if this didn't happen he comes up to me in person is like oh sorry roy um we can't get the rights to that song um whatever it was it was like a nickel back song or something like that and I was I was trying to get you to come out to nickel back yeah so I was like what are you talking about and he was like yeah you asked I texted you told me this song I'm like dude I never texted you anything and we started arguing like he's like yes you did and I'm like no I didn't man and I'm like pull up your phone let's see it so he takes his phone out and he's like look he said right here i'm like what number is this going to the contacts see what number it is it was my old number i was like dude this is not my number man did you call your old number and talk to that no i should have though fuck yeah we should we should do it what is my old number eight two six don't say it out loud you don't want to do the bomb done we should call we'll call him after the show we don't want to fuck with the dude i gotta figure out my old number well just text jason ask him to if he might have deleted it all right anyway oh no i remember the number you got it okay we'll call it afterwards rory underscore mac macdonald follow them on twitter when's your next fight scheduled you're waiting well you're waiting for the title fight after the title fight's over you get the next fight johnny hendricks fighting robie luller december 6th two weeks from now yep the winner of that fights me beautiful on a date to be decided yeah hopefully in canada right Dana said it's for sure in Canada Oh, wow.

[1508] So will that be in Toronto or Montreal?

[1509] It could be Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, Vancouver.

[1510] Right, right.

[1511] There's a lot of spots for you.

[1512] Wow.

[1513] Listen, man, this is a lot of fun.

[1514] Yeah, it was.

[1515] And I really appreciate you doing it.

[1516] Thanks, buddy.

[1517] And I appreciate your style.

[1518] Love watching your fight.

[1519] I'm a big fan.

[1520] Thanks, man. This is cool for me. Roy McDonald, ladies and gentlemen.

[1521] All right, we'll be back tomorrow with Lewis from Unbox Therapy.

[1522] Until then, take care.

[1523] Bye -bye.

[1524] Big kiss.

[1525] Mw.