S13 E13: [Zoe] Escalating and Escalating

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] If you're in need of support, please visit Something Was Wrong .com slash resources for a list of non -profit organizations that can help.

[13] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] Most names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent my views.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] Still hadn't heard from Ryan.

[19] After I said I was in the hospital and he never answered late at night, 10, 11 o 'clock or something.

[20] And my mom had seen my phone.

[21] was ringing.

[22] She said, who's Nora?

[23] And I was like, oh, a friend from college.

[24] She's like, okay.

[25] And then my phone kept ringing.

[26] It kept ringing.

[27] And Nora kept calling me. And I thought, she only calls me when I'm with Ryan.

[28] Otherwise, she doesn't bother me because she's with Ryan.

[29] So I thought something must be wrong because she's not with Ryan.

[30] I looked at my phone and she had texted me and said, this is an emergency.

[31] You need to call me. I said, I'm not calling you.

[32] Whatever the emergency is, text it to me, because I'm not talking to you on the phone.

[33] I didn't want to be put into, like, a trap of her screaming.

[34] She said, have you talked to Ryan?

[35] And I said, not in four days.

[36] She said, well, he just wrecked his car.

[37] And he texted me, telling me he wrecked his car, but then stop talking.

[38] And I don't know where he is or what happened.

[39] Have you talked to him?

[40] And I was like, no, but do you have more information?

[41] She's like, no, all I know is that he was driving.

[42] driving on the highway and I guess veered off the road and hit an exit sign.

[43] I was so upset because I thought, what if he's dead or did he fall asleep driving?

[44] Like, I'm so confused.

[45] And I started crying, uncontrollably crying.

[46] I ended up having a panic attack.

[47] I couldn't breathe.

[48] My mom started comforting me and she's an ER nurse.

[49] So she was assessing me physically too.

[50] she always calls me baby she says like baby what just tell me what's wrong just like anything you tell me i promise it's fine and i was like well okay well this guy i'm dating or was dating she tells me now that she was fully prepared to give me the college boy speech like college boys don't want to be in long relationships don't worry about a college boy because they're not really looking for long -term serious relationships and i can get you through a heartbreak i was like no he just got in a car accident, I have no way to know if he's okay, which confused her more.

[51] And eventually, I ended up spewing everything to her.

[52] She knew who Ryan was, kind of, because he was my boss for so long.

[53] So she knew his name, and she goes, fat Ryan?

[54] And I was like, yeah, he moved to my college town.

[55] And it's getting really out of control.

[56] She was unbelievably comforting.

[57] She validated my feelings while also not being mad and also being concerned.

[58] But I said, please don't make me come back home.

[59] I love my friends, but I don't know what to do.

[60] I remember when I told my mom, I felt this huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

[61] I don't know.

[62] But I feel like as a mom, she didn't want to support this relationship, but knew that it was way more intense and serious.

[63] She couldn't just be like, oh, stop dating him.

[64] I lived forever away and I was an adult and I was going to do what I wanted.

[65] And so instead of burning that bridge with me and shunning my relationship, she didn't embrace it.

[66] But she said, whatever you need, you let me know.

[67] And I will do it.

[68] It turned out Ryan had intentionally wrecked his car because he thought that if I could leave him by overdosing, he could leave me by wrecking his car.

[69] He was in the ICU for a better part of a month because he had broken so many bones.

[70] He ended up being okay in the long run, but I was devastated towards the end of January.

[71] I went back to college, and lo and behold, he went back to work after he was recovered.

[72] And the new semester started, I thought, I want a job.

[73] Maybe I can get away from him a little bit, make some money.

[74] I thought that would be a good thing for me. Well, when I wanted a job, Ryan was very much against it, unless I worked for him.

[75] I thought, I don't want to work for you again.

[76] That sounds terrible, or at least sounds very stressful.

[77] I had actually applied to other places.

[78] He wouldn't let me go to the interviews.

[79] I didn't have a car because I was living on campus, so he pretty much drove me everywhere.

[80] There was a good public transportation, but, I mean, he always knew where I was and what I was doing.

[81] He did not want me to work anywhere else.

[82] He said that if I did, I would fall in love with someone else and leave him.

[83] He couldn't have that.

[84] Looking back, he probably wanted to control where I was all the time.

[85] I felt like I didn't really have a choice, so I started working at the same restaurant that he did in my college town, and that second semester somehow was worse than the first.

[86] He started going to way higher extremes with his behavior.

[87] I was going to frat parties, and I wouldn't tell him because I knew he'd be mad or I was afraid he'd show up.

[88] I was going to go to a party with my friends.

[89] I don't really remember how it all came about, but I definitely didn't tell him I was going to a party.

[90] I think I just said I was going to hang out with my friends.

[91] And I guess he didn't really like that.

[92] He mostly didn't like it because my best friend was a boy, and he was not about that.

[93] He told me I couldn't hang out with him, but I was obviously going to continue hanging out with him.

[94] I was going to go to this party.

[95] We were getting ready.

[96] and we were all listening to music getting ready in my friend's dorm and then there was a knocking on the window their window faced the parking lot of our dorm and we all got completely silent at this point all of my friends knew who he was I had told them when I came back from Christmas I said look I don't want any judgment but I feel like you guys should know this and this is why I'm kind of flaky they all were scared for me but also supportive I guess they were like what are we going to do about it I always said we can never ever call the police on him no matter what he does because if he gets caught and it gets arrested he's going to bail himself out and then when he gets out it's going to be worse so just like trust me on this never call the cops when he knocked on the window he screamed my best friend's name and he's like I know Zoe's in there I know she's in there, have her come out and talk to me. And I was like, I do not want to talk to him.

[97] We kept banging on the window and screaming.

[98] He was threatening them.

[99] He's like, I'm going to bust this window open if you don't send her out here.

[100] She's not hanging out with you guys tonight.

[101] Blah, blah, blah.

[102] I wanted the safety of my friends.

[103] I wanted them to be safe and not really worry about me. So I went outside.

[104] And they just immediately sling open the blinds so they could watch.

[105] I was like, oh, my gosh.

[106] I'm fine, guys.

[107] Don't worry about it.

[108] He whispers in my ear, something.

[109] Like, you're coming with me. Don't make it look forced.

[110] I'd walk away with him.

[111] I waved to them.

[112] I'll wave by.

[113] Put up a finger like, I'll be back soon.

[114] I had no idea where he was taking me. But I was afraid to do anything else.

[115] He had a death grip on my arm.

[116] We walked to his car and we got into his car and we were driving.

[117] I don't know where he's driving me, but my friend started calling me to make sure I was okay.

[118] I didn't answer because he's like, don't answer that.

[119] Well, I kind of have to because they're going to call the cops on you thinking you just abducted me. So maybe I should answer.

[120] He's like, no, they wouldn't.

[121] They would never call the cops on me. And I'm like, yeah, they would.

[122] I think that would be the moment if I was taken away and presumably missing, my friends would have for sure called the cops.

[123] I answered the phone.

[124] But right before I did, he said, tell him we're going to get ice cream or something.

[125] It's like, okay, so I answered the phone.

[126] And I said, hey, what's up, guys?

[127] I told you I'm fine.

[128] I'll be back later.

[129] We're just going to get some food or ice cream or whatever.

[130] I don't really think my friend believed me because they all ended up getting in my other friend's car and following us.

[131] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[132] She had been under the influence that she left him there.

[133] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[134] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[135] What happens next?

[136] Depends on who you ask.

[137] Was it a crime of passion?

[138] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[139] This was clearly an intentional act.

[140] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[141] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[142] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[143] Everyone had an opinion.

[144] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[145] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[146] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[147] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[148] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcast, or Spotify.

[149] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[150] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[151] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[152] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[153] She's like, I can't.

[154] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[155] Like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[156] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[157] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[158] Well, you were holding something back.

[159] Intentionally.

[160] Yeah, yeah.

[161] Well, yeah.

[162] No, it's hysteria.

[163] It's all in your head.

[164] It's not physical.

[165] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[166] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[167] Or is it something else entirely?

[168] Something's wrong here.

[169] Something's not right.

[170] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[171] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[172] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[173] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[174] I don't know what.

[175] came about, but I got on the phone with them and I said, you don't need to follow us.

[176] We're going into get ice cream right now and we pulled into an ice cream shop and went in and ate ice cream.

[177] So they left.

[178] They were like, okay, so she's good.

[179] No big deal.

[180] I told Ryan, I said, what, what are you doing?

[181] You can't do this.

[182] People will get suspicious that you are making me miserable and being a little overbearing.

[183] He said, what?

[184] So you're not happy with me?

[185] And I was like, I mean, not really.

[186] This is very, very stressful for me. All of this is stressful.

[187] Clearly, you know what happened in December.

[188] It's all very upsetting and don't wear us still bothering me. I will never forget this.

[189] He grabs my arm and he said, well, don't worry.

[190] You'll never live long enough to be happy.

[191] I'm so sorry.

[192] You know what the best part is, though?

[193] I've met those friends in September.

[194] Overdosed in December.

[195] This happens.

[196] probably February, March sometime, they are still my best friends to this day.

[197] I'm not saying I could have done the same.

[198] If I was a freshman in college and met this girl and we were friends and all of this happened, I might have cut my losses and been like, this is dangerous.

[199] I don't want to be friends with someone like that.

[200] And not one of them did that.

[201] I'm so glad you had their support.

[202] That's amazing.

[203] I love that.

[204] Me too.

[205] Every time he would say something mean or scary or threatening.

[206] He would always follow it up with some sort of very loving.

[207] You'll never live long enough to be happy.

[208] But that's because I love you so much.

[209] I just want the best for you.

[210] It didn't make any sense.

[211] He would follow things up with such flowery language.

[212] I believed him.

[213] I always thought it's better if he's in a good mood, then I can be in a good mood.

[214] No matter what's going on, he's in a good mood.

[215] Okay, then I don't have to worry about him.

[216] I can worry about the other 900 things going on in my life.

[217] He ended up taking me back to my dorm.

[218] I told him I wasn't going to go to the party.

[219] Honestly, I was very upset, so I wasn't going to go anyways.

[220] I got back to my friend's dorm and I was like, yeah, he just needed to see me. No big deal.

[221] I forgot that we had planned to get ice cream, which was a lie.

[222] I'm not feeling so good, so I don't think I'm going to go to this party.

[223] And my friends were like, what?

[224] Come on, just come to this party with us.

[225] I couldn't do it.

[226] I was very upset.

[227] We still talk about it to the day.

[228] I went down to the convenience store that was in our dorm.

[229] And I bought a family -sized box of fruity pebbles and a half a gallon of milk.

[230] I went back upstairs while they were getting ready.

[231] One of my friends, she loves popcorn.

[232] She has all these popcorn bowls.

[233] And I said, will you hand me one of those?

[234] And she did.

[235] And I poured the entire family -sized box of fruity pebbles into this bowl with milk, sat on my friend's bed, and ate it while I, sobbed.

[236] They felt terrible for me because they knew what was going on and they felt like they couldn't help me and they didn't want to overstep.

[237] After eating so many fruity pebbles and then them getting soggy and gross, I found the whole situation kind of hilarious.

[238] So I started laughing and they were all dancing and singing getting ready and I said, you know what, I'm just going to go to this party.

[239] I put away the fruity pebbles and I did end up going to the party.

[240] We only had 10 minutes for me to get ready.

[241] But I did.

[242] I got ready, borrowed clothes for my friend.

[243] We went out.

[244] We had a great time and we still talk about that to this day because it was kind of a sadly hilarious scene of me eating a popcorn -sized bowl of fruity pebbles.

[245] That whole semester, I was working with Ryan and his behavior escalated and escalated.

[246] I could only work when he worked and I had to work when he worked.

[247] I was working a lot and we would fight.

[248] We bicker all the time at work.

[249] People that we worked with knew that we were dating.

[250] None of them really thought anything of it other than our age difference, but I had turned 19, so no one really cared.

[251] And no one really thought it was any of their business.

[252] They understood why we always worked together because I think they probably assumed we lived together, but he was still living in his car.

[253] He would get angrier and angrier at me. I went from bickering at work to him being mad at me than I'm mad at work.

[254] He would actually start throwing bulls at me when he was mad.

[255] He would always just merely miss. It would make me obviously very upset and scared, but he would do this when no one was around.

[256] We'd be in the back or something, and he'd be mad at me for being upset or mad at him or whoever knows what was going on.

[257] I don't even think he ever hit me, but one time I had gone out to his car to get something and his phone was in there.

[258] I snooped.

[259] I shouldn't have, but I did.

[260] He was still texting Nora, all the things he was texting her before.

[261] I went back inside, and I was visibly upset, and he was so mad.

[262] Like, why are you upset?

[263] And I was like, I look to your phone, and I definitely shouldn't have, but why are you still talking to her like you're together?

[264] You've been living here for nine, ten months now.

[265] He was mad.

[266] I went through his phone, so he said, let me go through your phone.

[267] And I was like, no, because I'm sure I had complained to all of my friends.

[268] friends and family about him that knew.

[269] I didn't want him to go through my phone, so I put it in my shirt.

[270] I don't know why I thought that would stop him, but he grabbed my shirt, grabbed me, and he ended up cutting open my chest with his nails.

[271] I was bleeding.

[272] That was one of the many times that things would escalate past yelling.

[273] Another time, Nora had called me. She called our work phone, and I answered, and that's how she found out I was working, there because I said my name.

[274] Thanks for calling blah blah.

[275] My name's Zoe.

[276] How can I help you?

[277] And she was like, oh, I knew you worked there.

[278] She went off on me. We left work that night and we were driving in the car and he was so mad, so mad at me for letting her get to me. He pulled his rearview mirror off of his car, grabbed it and slammed it and pulled it off from his car and then slammed it so the glass broke and they threw it all at me. He was like, this is all your fault.

[279] You're depressed because you let her make you upset.

[280] It's nothing that I do.

[281] You're depressed because of what you let happen to you.

[282] I was like, no, I don't think that's the case.

[283] I think I'm depressed for a lot of reasons, one of which is because you throw things at me like glass and bowls and you cut open my skin and all of these other things.

[284] But I didn't want to fight with him.

[285] whenever I would stop being upset, he would then be fine.

[286] So that's basically how it went for that whole semester.

[287] Then summer came, a lot of people moved back home.

[288] Part of me wanted to move back home, and part of me didn't because I didn't know what would happen.

[289] One scenario is I moved back home, he moves back to our home state, and then wants me to hang out with him where all of these people we both know would be and I didn't want to be in public with him around people that we knew.

[290] or I'd move back home and then he would be mad at me for moving for those three or four months because he has a job in my college town and blame me for leaving him when he moved all that way.

[291] So I thought, I'm just going to live in my college town for the summer.

[292] My four friends and I had already signed an apartment lease to start in August or September.

[293] So it was like three months.

[294] I had to find somewhere to live.

[295] My dad helped me find somewhere to live.

[296] It was like right by work.

[297] I was renting the basement of a house.

[298] I didn't have the whole thing and it wasn't an apartment because I wasn't living in the dorm.

[299] Ryan thought that was a full invitation to start living with me. I was like, you can't live with me. There are like lease laws.

[300] I don't know what they are, but I'm sure you living in here with me is violating them.

[301] He's like, well, what do you do?

[302] Just leave in my car.

[303] And I thought, I mean, yeah, that's what you've been doing for almost a year now.

[304] Can't you continue?

[305] But nothing I would say would convince him.

[306] Whereas the dorm, he understood because I had a roommate.

[307] But now that I was living pretty close to our work, he forced himself into living with me for those three months and working together, living together, breathing the same air 24 -7 was not good for us.

[308] We fought all the time.

[309] His behavior escalated.

[310] Nora was getting very upset all the time because she had tracked his phone and saw that he was like staying in a house.

[311] So she thought we had moved in together permanently, which we hadn't, but she wasn't also wrong.

[312] Now that we were spending like 24 -7 together, she would get even more angry because during the times that we weren't hanging out together before, he would call her and reassure her that he loved her and all of these things.

[313] And he wouldn't do that in front of me. We were together all the time and she wasn't getting the responses out of him that she was expecting that made her roll into another frenzy.

[314] It got to a point that I couldn't handle it again.

[315] And I thought the last time I got to this point, I overdosed.

[316] And I don't want him to have that control over me or her.

[317] I need to get out.

[318] I started planning my exit plan from him.

[319] I was moving to a new apartment in August that he didn't know where it was.

[320] I thought, got that taken care of.

[321] He won't know where I live.

[322] That summer, I had brought my car from my home state to my college town.

[323] I thought I'm going to quit work and somehow cut contact with him.

[324] It did upset me a little bit, but it wasn't horrible.

[325] I was ready to get out.

[326] I started withdrawing from him more and more, and I wouldn't engage in his fights.

[327] But when it came to having sex, I almost always did whatever he wanted because I didn't want to make him mad because I knew what happened when he got mad.

[328] well he didn't want me to be on birth control who knows why other than to trap me with a child i don't know but he did not want me to be on birth control i had said then we are definitely not having sex if i'm not on birth control no way i just kept taking my birth control while he ended up flushing it or throwing it away or taking it to where i didn't have it anymore i was very steadfast i do not want to sleep with you I'm not going to.

[329] I don't want to.

[330] And he would get physically and verbally abusive to the point that I gave up.

[331] I was like, fine.

[332] If sex will make you happy and leave me alone, then fine.

[333] In August of 2017, I realized my period was a little late.

[334] But I didn't really think anything of it.

[335] Ryan was going home because it was Nora's birthday.

[336] In his words, he wanted to give her a break from being a full -time mom for her birthday.

[337] I said, take me with you.

[338] I want to go.

[339] I want to go home, too.

[340] I'll surprise my family.

[341] He drove me all the way, all 14 hours.

[342] We fought the whole way.

[343] He drove really erratically to scare me. At one point, he left me at a gas station and then came back and got me. But we got back to our home state.

[344] I surprised my dad at his house.

[345] I don't know why I didn't think of this, but he said, how did you get here?

[346] I was frozen.

[347] I didn't know what to say because I wasn't going to tell him that my ex -boss, that he doesn't know that I'm dating, moved to my college town, and drove me here.

[348] I don't even remember what I said, but I definitely did not tell him the truth.

[349] While I was there, I told my mom, I said, I want to go to school here.

[350] I don't want to be in my college town anymore.

[351] I thought this was a good way to get out.

[352] I actually went through the entire process of switching and transferring schools all the way up to I went to the new school to make my schedule and they told me if I transferred more than half of my credits wouldn't transfer and I'd have to take an extra year of school and I said absolutely not I said I can't that is so much money so much time I might as well just go back to my college town I didn't end up transferring schools Ryan had gone back to my college town and didn't take me with him because I told him I wasn't going.

[353] I was like, yeah, I just needed to stay there for a little bit longer because family stuff.

[354] When I got back, I still hadn't had my period.

[355] It'd been three or four weeks or something.

[356] I was so scared.

[357] I called one of my friends from college who was at home.

[358] I phacetimed her.

[359] She was at the airport.

[360] I said, I think I'm pregnant.

[361] She was like, stop.

[362] No. With Ryan's, I was like, yeah.

[363] I told her how that came.

[364] about she's like well take a test and let me know but whatever you need I'm here for you I took a test and I knew what it was going to be before I even looked I was pregnant I thought well what do I do now I called my friend back and I said okay so I don't know what to do and she goes well do you want to keep the baby and I was like no no I can't I'm in a horrible relationship.

[365] This kid is going to have a toxic father who is horribly abusive to me, who knows what he would do to my child.

[366] I can't.

[367] I mean, I'm a college student.

[368] I don't have any money.

[369] She was like, well, then you know what to do.

[370] I ended up calling Planned Parenthood, and they scheduled me for an appointment.

[371] Like to my friend, she lived six hours away from our college town.

[372] She was at home for the summer.

[373] I said, I know this is a lot to ask, but do you think it could come with me?

[374] She was like, I would, but she was on vacation.

[375] I said, oh, man, I don't know who else to call.

[376] My best guy friend was out of town.

[377] One of my other friends, I was going to call her, and I thought, I can't call her.

[378] She was very religious, waiting to have sex until marriage.

[379] I thought, I don't want to put this pressure on her, because I know she would come, but I can't put that pressure on her if she doesn't want to.

[380] I was going to go alone, and my friend ended up calling our very religious friend and told her what was going on.

[381] And then my other friend called me and she goes, I'll be there.

[382] I'll drive you there.

[383] I'll drive you back.

[384] I'll get you snacks, whatever you want.

[385] I'll be there.

[386] I said, you do not have to.

[387] And she goes, no, I have no problems with women choosing what they want to do with an unwanted pregnancy.

[388] I wouldn't choose it myself.

[389] But if this is the path that you want to take, I will do everything that I can for you.

[390] She did.

[391] She lived a couple hours away and drove me to my appointment and drove me back to the house I was living in.

[392] It was a fine experience.

[393] I mean, it was sad for a lot of reasons, but having her there was very important to me. I didn't tell Ryan that I was pregnant or that I was getting an abortion.

[394] I ended up doing a surgical abortion so you can't get up and move and lift objects for a certain amount of time.

[395] I wasn't going to work for a couple of days.

[396] I told him I didn't feel good I wasn't going to work.

[397] He got very upset.

[398] He said, well, why?

[399] What's wrong?

[400] He came home and saw me laying and Ben was like, oh, so you're just being fucking lazy.

[401] I was like, no, I'm not.

[402] I just don't feel good.

[403] He's like, well, you look fine.

[404] I was like, okay, well, I don't feel good.

[405] So I'm not going to work the next two days.

[406] He wouldn't take that as an answer.

[407] He starts digging through all of my stuff.

[408] He's like, so what, are you cheating on me?

[409] Has someone been here?

[410] And he found my paperwork from the clinic.

[411] He saw that I had had an abortion and he goes, I'm telling your dad.

[412] I was like, no, you're not.

[413] He's like, you just aborted my baby.

[414] Every expletive you could think of is what he said.

[415] I was trying to get the paperwork back from him.

[416] It wasn't anyone's business, but mine.

[417] I didn't want him to tell anyone else.

[418] I'm fighting with him over these papers.

[419] He ends up running outside, so I run outside and I jump on his back to try and grab the papers from the front.

[420] And he just lifts me up over.

[421] shoulders and slams me onto the ground and knocked the wind out of me. I ended up getting the papers for the next couple of days.

[422] He tried to convince himself that I actually had an abortion because I didn't know who the dad was and I didn't want the baby to come out, not looking like him or something ridiculous like that.

[423] Our relationship really hit a standstill.

[424] He could not imagine that I would abort a child, let alone his, without telling him.

[425] And then, you know, And so he was trying to kind of make things normal.

[426] He wanted to take me out on a date.

[427] I really didn't feel good at this point.

[428] I felt very sick.

[429] I was having really bad cramps because of him throwing me and me falling that hard immediately after the procedure, I had passed a blood clot that was the size of an egg.

[430] I called the doctor and she was like, yeah, you know, sometimes it happens when the recovery isn't conventional.

[431] She's like, did you do any heavy lifting, blah, blah, blah.

[432] and I was like, oh, yeah, heavy lifting.

[433] The aftermath of that is that I actually have pretty severe scar tissue around my cervix and uterus because of that.

[434] And who knows how that will affect my fertility in the future.

[435] I did think in that moment, no, I'm getting out.

[436] Even if I'm not switching schools, I'm getting out of this situation.

[437] A week later was when I was moving to my new apartment.

[438] My dad came up to help me move, moved in.

[439] I was very excited.

[440] I don't have my first place.

[441] I wasn't a dorm or my parents' house.

[442] I was still working with him at the restaurant, but I had a plan in place where I was going to leave.

[443] I'd actually called Ryan's boss two steps ahead of me, and I said, I'm going to quit.

[444] You don't want to know why, so please take this as it is.

[445] Don't ask questions and don't badger me about it.

[446] But I'm telling you, so if you need to do anything, that's fine.

[447] but I'm leaving.

[448] Conveniently enough, our restaurant was right next to Verizon's store.

[449] I finished my shift.

[450] I walked next door.

[451] I think Ryan was in the bathroom or, like, running an errand or something, so he wasn't there.

[452] So I thought it was a perfect time to leave.

[453] I walked out, left my keys, told everyone I was leaving.

[454] I wasn't coming back.

[455] I walked next door, went into the Verizon store, and I said, can I change my phone number, please?

[456] They gave me a brand new phone number.

[457] I walked out of Verizon, went down to my car, and I drove to my apartment, and I was never coming back.

[458] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[459] I'm Sachi Cole.

[460] And I'm Sarah Hagey.

[461] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[462] way.

[463] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[464] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[465] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[466] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[467] You can listen to SCAMFluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[468] I did actually call his boss again and said, you know, I think I have like a month of PTO.

[469] Can I take that?

[470] And he was like, yeah, sure, whatever.

[471] Of course, Ryan freaked out.

[472] He was very upset and sent me this really long email.

[473] Like, just because you're mad doesn't mean you get to leave your keys.

[474] He called me Tuts.

[475] You don't just get to leave your keys, Tuts, because you're upset.

[476] You have to come back.

[477] you can't leave me, these kinds of things.

[478] He had started emailing me because I had changed my number and he didn't know what it was.

[479] It was very liberating.

[480] I remember walking out of there being half terrified, half amazed.

[481] I was like, I'm done.

[482] I won't come back.

[483] I went to my apartment and I started living life pretty normally.

[484] I did block his emails, but you can make unlimited email accounts, so that's pretty much what he did.

[485] I just stopped blocking them because, I mean, you could make so many.

[486] He would keep doing it.

[487] He got my new phone number.

[488] I don't remember how exactly.

[489] I blocked it.

[490] I blocked his number, but he would call me no caller ID and leave voicemails.

[491] At the end of September, I still don't know how because we had no mutual friends.

[492] No one at our restaurant knew where I was moving to, but he did find out where I lived.

[493] It might have been because my car was outside.

[494] I don't really know, but he found my apartment.

[495] My friends and I were getting ready to go to a party.

[496] I was looking out of the window, and his car was parked right outside my apartment.

[497] And I thought, oh, here we go.

[498] If he's going to kill me, he's going to do it right now.

[499] So I was extremely terrified.

[500] I unblocked his number, and I get a slew of text messages about how I've ruined his life.

[501] He uprooted his whole life for me. Nora won't let him see the kids because he broke up with her.

[502] He has no reason to live anymore.

[503] and he kept making threats on his life I didn't know what to do and I was terrified if he does is it my fault and that was always a thought in my head whenever he would threaten his life of would it be my fault because he always convinced me that it would be he starts getting more and more vulgar in these texts about all these things he's going to do to harm himself to the point that he started sending me videos and pictures of him self -harming in his car because I wouldn't go out and see him.

[504] I called my mom and I told her all about it and I said, you know, what do I do?

[505] And she goes, if he's that much of a danger to himself, call the police.

[506] It's not your responsibility to save someone.

[507] And it's not your fault.

[508] You can get out of relationships and it's not your fault to how they react.

[509] That was really liberating to me that I couldn't control the actions.

[510] that he was taking.

[511] I did.

[512] I called the police.

[513] I think once he heard the sirens, he drove away because they didn't never get him.

[514] And his car was gone.

[515] My friends and I went to the party anyways.

[516] And I had a decently normal rest of my college career, except he ended up staying in my college town for like months and months after.

[517] I never would see him, but he would constantly, contact me. From October of 2017, all the way through the next summer, he would obsessively email me, text me, tell me how much he loves me, how much he misses me. He would go from one extreme to the other.

[518] Like, I'll do anything for you.

[519] Please come back to me to, I fucking hate you.

[520] You deserve to die.

[521] Yeah, I just brushed it all off.

[522] Good thing I'm out.

[523] Beginning of summer of 2018, I'd started hanging out with a new guy pretty casually.

[524] I think I posted a picture on Twitter or Instagram.

[525] Ryan had found it and he lost it.

[526] He screenshots out of the picture, emailed it to me and said who the fuck is this dude?

[527] I'm your boyfriend.

[528] Who is this guy?

[529] Why do you have your head on his shoulder?

[530] The day he found out about this guy I was seeing hundreds of phone calls and texts and emails and voicemails and he started escalating and escalating throughout the day until eventually he left me voicemail saying that he was going to kill this guy, like this guy needed to protect me from him and also protect himself because he was going to kill him.

[531] He said he's not going to do anything about it because he's a pussy or whatever.

[532] Went off on me and while threatening to kill this new guy.

[533] I was at this guy's house.

[534] I wasn't home, but I think maybe one of my roommates were home and I called my roommate because Ryan had sent me a picture of him outside of my apartment door like you could see my apartment number he had a gun in his hand and I immediately called my roommate I said do not answer the door do not stand by the door Ryan's there he found out about this guy I'm seeing I'll call the police she was actually very calm about it.

[535] He ended up knocking on the door and leaving me a voicemail.

[536] I know you're here.

[537] Let me in.

[538] I'm going to fucking kill him.

[539] I called the police and I told them what was going on.

[540] I don't know how long it took the police to respond, but I do know that by the time they got there, he was gone.

[541] They like gave my roommate the police report number or something and that was it because they never saw him.

[542] I was talking to the guy I was dating and I was like, if you never want to talk to me again, that is completely fine.

[543] I would totally understand.

[544] You did not sign up for this.

[545] He said, have you ever thought about getting a protective order?

[546] And I was like, no, never actually.

[547] Mostly because I was afraid, A, no one would believe me or B, that you file for a protective order and then if the person wants to contest it, you have to go to a hearing, and I didn't think I could physically go to a hearing and see him.

[548] I hadn't really thought about it for a week or so, and then I did end up going to some domestic violence counselor center downtown, and they had pro bono lawyers that were filing protective orders.

[549] I did get a protective order, and I had started working at a new job at a different restaurant, you can put your work address so that they know not to go there.

[550] I put it on there because if you don't put it and Ryan shows up, the police can't do anything because he didn't know he couldn't go there.

[551] If you put it on there, then he knows where he works.

[552] So it's no double -edged sword.

[553] I did put my work address on there.

[554] And it was granted.

[555] They kept asking me, like, where does he live?

[556] He said, he lives in his car.

[557] I don't know what to tell you.

[558] I know where he works so you can serve it on him.

[559] They tried to serve it on him for two or three weeks.

[560] And Ryan actually ended up losing his job because every time the sheriff would come in to serve him, he would dart out the back door and leave and not come back.

[561] He kept avoiding being served until eventually the sheriff filed a notice with the court.

[562] We can't serve him and he's deliberately trying not to be served.

[563] This is just granted.

[564] He didn't contest it, so we didn't have to go to court, which was nice.

[565] After it was granted, he couldn't contact me, which was great.

[566] He actually didn't contact me for a decent amount of months, but he did contact my mom.

[567] I think he found her on Facebook or something.

[568] He messaged her some of the most absurd things.

[569] First, he told her I got an abortion.

[570] Then he said, am I not good enough for her?

[571] This and this and this.

[572] And he said, am I not hot enough for her?

[573] And then sent my mom a shirtless picture to which my mom called me and was like, this is absurd.

[574] I was like, he's upset.

[575] He's very upset.

[576] And he's going to say whatever he wants to you to get you to respond or be mad or whatever.

[577] He escalated until he was like, Zoe's going to make me start World War III.

[578] And she makes me want to kill again.

[579] And I was like, again, I called the police and told them.

[580] This is indirect contact to me through my mom.

[581] They didn't do anything.

[582] I mean, they noted it.

[583] Nothing came out of it.

[584] And eventually he did stop talking to my mom.

[585] I think she blocked him or something.

[586] I stopped working and left him in September, October, 2017.

[587] He didn't leave until August of 2018 and the whole time.

[588] It's almost like he used my email as a diary.

[589] He would tell me everything he was doing every single day.

[590] and then always end it with, I love you so much.

[591] You're the greatest thing that ever happened to me. He would just give me updates on everything he was doing all the time.

[592] I brushed it under the rug because I didn't really care enough to call the police because nothing had ever happened when I had done it before.

[593] The next year, it wasn't quiet because he never stopped contacting me. But in August 2019, so a whole year later, I was moving back to my home state to go to school.

[594] to more school because I had graduated early from undergrad and I was going to pursue another degree in my home state.

[595] In September of 2019, I got a call from my old boss at the new restaurant I was working at in my college town and he said, someone's here looking for you.

[596] And I was like, who?

[597] I said, does he look like XYZ?

[598] He said, yes, I am looking at him.

[599] He's sitting at the bar.

[600] He's asking where you are.

[601] And I said, whatever you do, do not tell you.

[602] him.

[603] I don't care what you said.

[604] Say you've never heard of me. I don't care, but do not tell him that I moved.

[605] He was like, okay, and hung up.

[606] I was thinking, why is Ryan back in my college town?

[607] He had moved back.

[608] I still don't know why he was there.

[609] It really opened a lot of emotions that I've kind of suppressed or forgot that Ryan could make me feel.

[610] Most of 2020, we lived in the same state.

[611] I never saw him, but he would update me on what he was doing.

[612] At one point, in 2020, he had gotten a new job as a semi -truck driver or something, so he was all over the country.

[613] And he sent me a picture, and it terrified me. It was a picture of a book.

[614] It said a town name in Oregon, and the caption that he had sent with the picture was, I'm here to fuck shit up.

[615] A couple of months before that, my brother had moved to that town in Oregon, and it was not a big town.

[616] He was there in the town that my brother lived in, telling me he was going to fuck shit up.

[617] I was horrified.

[618] And my brother didn't even know any of the details of what had gone on in my life other than very vaguely, but he never knew the extent of it.

[619] I was pretty terrified.

[620] I told my mom, and she told my brother, I guess, the extent of what he needed to know.

[621] Nothing came of it, but this is what he would do for years.

[622] Ryan would email me vague threats and all of these other things.

[623] He had been driving this semi all over the United States.

[624] And he was in somewhere in the Northeast.

[625] And he sent me plane tickets.

[626] And he goes, bought you a ticket to come visit me. I obviously didn't use it or respond.

[627] But I was like, this is absurd.

[628] It's been almost four years.

[629] And I hadn't ever contacted him.

[630] and he's sending me plane tickets over these years.

[631] He had sent me Venmo transfers and coffee gift cards and give cards for restaurants that I like over email.

[632] He'd give me gifts and then he would threaten my family or myself.

[633] It was very back and forth and really honestly miserable, but I would not read most of the things he said because I didn't really care to see what he had to say.

[634] In the spring of 2021, he sent me. me an email.

[635] And he said, I know it's your birthday, but I wanted to tell you that Nora and I just had our fourth child on your birthday.

[636] I wanted to let you know that I purposely planned this conception so that our child would be born on your birthday.

[637] And it would be like you never left me. Four or five years ago, he names a kid after my little name.

[638] And now four years later, he has another one that I guess he thinks that he could control delivery dates, but he claims that he purposely had on my birthday.

[639] That was probably the most triggering thing over the last few years because he just keeps trying to weasel his way back into my life.

[640] My birthday has always been very important to me. Why are you trying to ruin my favorite day of the year by making it about you?

[641] I haven't seen you in so many years.

[642] I haven't talked to you in so many years.

[643] he wouldn't let it go.

[644] I had responded, I was not very nice.

[645] It was along the lines of, why would you tell me this?

[646] You know it would upset me. And it's unnecessary.

[647] This conversation went on for, I don't know, a few texts or something.

[648] Eventually, he was back to emailing me. It had tapered down a little bit towards the end of 2020 and through 2021.

[649] It was less and less.

[650] The last time I heard from Ryan or Nora, was in August of 2021.

[651] Actually, my birthday passed this year in April.

[652] And it was the first time since 2016 that Ryan did not find a way to wish me a happy birthday or send me a gift.

[653] And it was extremely liberating.

[654] Thank you so much for taking all of the time and emotional energy to share your story.

[655] I am incredibly sorry to hear about what you experienced.

[656] and what this person put you through is absolutely terrifying and it makes me so mad.

[657] For lack of a better reflection, it makes me so fucking mad in so many ways.

[658] Right.

[659] I always tell myself, and I think I put this in my submission, if I were to go back and talk to my 18 -year -old self, I would say, there's life on the other side of this.

[660] And it's great.

[661] Is it going to suck in the middle?

[662] Yeah, it's going to suck.

[663] there's life on the other side, and it is definitely worth living if you can see past the difficulty that you're going to have to go through.

[664] When I was going through it, I got a degree in writing.

[665] I love to read and I love to write.

[666] I had read some sort of quote that was like, if there's a book you want to read that isn't written, then write it yourself.

[667] And that whole time I was going through this, I just wanted someone to understand, to be able to empathize or be like, yeah, I get why you are so charmed by him, even though he's terrible in all of these ways.

[668] There wasn't that exact story for me. A lot have to do with people who are married or people who have kids.

[669] It didn't resonate with me. And so if there's anyone out there that is going through something similar and feels like there isn't this platform for it, I have now written the story for you to read, which is what I wanted.

[670] It's all I wanted.

[671] to know that I wasn't the only person in the world that could possibly go through this niche set of circumstances if someone is listening and relates.

[672] I've gone through it, and you are definitely not alone.

[673] All of your feelings are valid, even when you don't understand them.

[674] Thank you so much.

[675] Thank you so much for listening.

[676] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[677] Something was wrong is a broken cycle media, production.

[678] Created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[679] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[680] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[681] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[682] Thank you so much.

[683] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.

[684] or on Apple Podcasts.

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