A Script for Defiance—Mouthy, Demanding Kids

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[24] So when you became a parent, did anyone say, hey, you know what you can look forward to?

[25] one day you're going to have this strong -willed child and he's going to talk back to you and he's going to talk down to you like he's the adult and you're the child right nobody told you that but that's what many of you experienced and that's what we're going to talk about today on the calm parenting podcast so welcome my name is kirk martin founder of celebrate calm you can find us at celebrate calm dot com if you need help with one of these strong -willed children you can email our strong -willed child casey he's a grown man now he's age 27 but he was every bit as challenging as your kids and he understands where they're coming from and where you're coming from and we this is not our business this is our passion and we exist to serve you so if we can help in any way please let us know so you can email him at k -c -c -a -s -s -e -y -s -y -slebrate calm.

[26] So two things I wanted to hit on one is two emails we got one was from we're doing the school boot camp where I'm personally mentoring people through the school year because It is just a lot of challenges, right?

[27] So parents said, well, our child's being defiant over doing his schoolwork.

[28] And when you ask a couple of questions, you find out it's not really a defiance issue.

[29] It's that the child is overwhelmed.

[30] They've shut down.

[31] They're not good at like pushing through when things get hard.

[32] And so they start to become defiant and they don't want to do their schoolwork.

[33] And for me, that's when I say, you're not really dealing with a defiant child.

[34] you're dealing with an overwhelmed child and just saying like, well, if you don't do your school work, you're going to lose all of your privileges.

[35] It's fine.

[36] But it's not going to change things in the long run because what I want to do is get to the root of it.

[37] And in this case, what we're doing through the boot camp is giving that child tools to succeed, giving them tools to jumpstart his brain so he can push through.

[38] And we're using their natural strengths.

[39] The beautiful part of the whole process is we're observing our kids and we're noticing how do they learn best what do they just naturally enjoy doing and then we can use that to our advantage so trying to rather than trying to watch shoehorn them into right trying to fit into a system that doesn't work for them or somehow convincing them or bribing them to do something they hate doing we can work with their natural strengths and how they're made and work with their brain the way it is already you don't have to change the child.

[40] We just have to teach them how to use what they're already naturally good at in order to get the work done.

[41] So I'm not going to deal with that so much because it's in the boot camp thing.

[42] And that's not the kind of defiance that I wanted to get to.

[43] The one I wanted to spend some time on is this.

[44] So here's another email, right?

[45] Parents write in, we had a really challenging strong -willed child who talks back, acts like I never would have.

[46] right when I was a kid, if we had done this to our parents, we would have gotten sent to Siberia, right?

[47] And so they got the downloads, we started listening to your stuff, and here's what they said.

[48] The biggest change has been us.

[49] What we realized was we were feeding this all along because we were putting so much energy into trying to change this really difficult, strong -willed child, but when we finally focused on changing ourselves and changing our response, our entire family changed.

[50] And we're able now, we have the tools now to de -escalate.

[51] And so the thing that we love hearing most is not that it just changes a child's behavior, but here is the final sentence.

[52] We're enjoying our strong -willed child now for the first time and a long time.

[53] And that's my goal, right?

[54] So we're going to give you some examples here of how you change their behavior.

[55] But my long -term goal is not to change behavior.

[56] It's to change relationships, because relationships change behavior.

[57] And the reason you had kids is so that you can have a relationship with them, not just raise obedient, well -behaved children.

[58] Okay.

[59] So I'm doing this, let me set this up.

[60] I'm doing a Q &A with parents from Great Britain this past week via Zoom.

[61] And so if you want us to speak at your church school, anything, conference, adoption care, foster care, just reach out to us, reach out to Casey because we can either do it live because we're doing live events again or we can do it via Zoom.

[62] And this was cool because we got to go all the way across the ocean from our living room.

[63] And so here's the great question.

[64] What do you do with kids with a naughty mouth?

[65] And I love the word naughty.

[66] It's kind of quaint and British, right?

[67] So the one thing I think that we hear most is that people like about our stuff about the CDs and downloads that you get tired of hearing back about is we give you actual scripts to use with your kids.

[68] We actually give you the words to use, right?

[69] So in the moment, you know, it's tough to know what to say because this child is looking at you saying awful things.

[70] But we try to give you an actual script and like a template.

[71] So you just have to kind of repeat after me. So here's how it worked in our home.

[72] For those of you don't know, Casey is our son, very, very strong willed child, came at us all the time, always wanted to get the last word in, right, had an attitude.

[73] And so sometimes he would come at me with that tone.

[74] You know what that tone is.

[75] It's a disrespectful attitude.

[76] He was demanding.

[77] And how I would usually react, I would bark out.

[78] You know what?

[79] You can't use that tone with me, young man. Go to your room for the rest of your life.

[80] Because it's pretty much what you're going to get, right?

[81] every night you're going to send the child to the room, to the room, to the room, you're going to give a consequence, and it doesn't change anything, right?

[82] And if you react with your own tone, you have just stooped to your child's level and said, hey, let's drop gloves and fight.

[83] So after I did that for years, when I finally found out, discovered this principle that the only person in life that you can control is yourself, and the quickest way to change your child is to first control yourself, I finally decided to be the grown -up, right?

[84] and I know some of you cringe at that, but you're the adult, you're the grown -up, you're the leader.

[85] I know, but my child is, I know.

[86] Your child's very difficult, but he's a child, and you're the grown -up, you're the adult, you're the leader.

[87] So instead of reacting, I responded in a calm, even non -emotional tone, right?

[88] And I'm going to try to do some more podcasts on that, but the tone of voice is extremely important.

[89] Not -emotional tone.

[90] I'm not going to get upset.

[91] I'm not going to man things back, I talk to him like a grown -up.

[92] And I really like using kind of this low -key resigned tone that snuffs out the smoldering embers rather than igniting the emotional flames, right?

[93] So here are three examples.

[94] And if you get like, if you get the calm parenting package or they get everything package, it's on sale right now, 60 % off and one of them 70 % off.

[95] If you get everything, the more you get, the bigger of discount.

[96] And if you need help with that, email Casey at Celebrate Calm .com.

[97] He'll help you out.

[98] But we've got a massive back to school sale because we want your home to be calm when the school year goes back because if you are still barking out consequences all the time and if you're still engaging in fights with your kids and power struggles all the time, guess what?

[99] They're not going to learn anything and you're going to be miserable all the time.

[100] So I want to change that so that your kids can actually learn and your family can enjoy each other.

[101] Right.

[102] So these are just a couple examples.

[103] We have dozens and dozens of examples in the programs, but here's first example.

[104] And again, very kind of resigned tone.

[105] Hey, Casey, look, the last 247 times you talk to me like that, you lost all your privileges.

[106] And I know that's not what you really want.

[107] And you know I don't do demanding.

[108] But if you want to ask me or talk to me like an adult, I'd be thrilled with problems solve with you.

[109] So why don't we start over and try again?

[110] Right.

[111] I'm diffusing things.

[112] I'm not letting them get away with it.

[113] I'm letting them know.

[114] If you do this, you're going to lose all your stuff.

[115] But see, I'm not making it a threat.

[116] You know, keep that up, young man, and you'll do it.

[117] Because the strong -willed child, once their brain gets into this mode of like they're going in on it all for it and they're, and they're demanding and they're all emotional, they're not thinking rationally.

[118] So when we respond back like that, all they do is just mimic what they just heard back and they just escalate because they already figured, nope, probably lost everything.

[119] anyway, may as well just go for it.

[120] So I'm letting him know, like, it's not going to work for you, right?

[121] And sometimes that's all you have to say.

[122] Right.

[123] There are times where I just said, Casey, look, I don't think you want to go there.

[124] It's just not going to work.

[125] Because what he finally learned was, I'm not going to react.

[126] I'm not going to get into the courtroom with you.

[127] I'm not going to try to convince you.

[128] I'm not going to talk too sweetly.

[129] I'm not going to try to bribe you.

[130] I'm just let you know that your behavior does not determine or change my behavior, right?

[131] I'm in complete control of myself right now.

[132] And then there's a transition to, I know this is what you really want, but here's a choice.

[133] If you want to ask me or talk to me like an adult, say I'd love the problem solve with you.

[134] So won't we start over, try again?

[135] So I'm giving him a chance to do a do -over.

[136] But I'm de -escalating.

[137] And sometimes I would kind of walk away and invite him to come with me. So let me kind of do that example.

[138] So here's a second example.

[139] Hey, Casey, every time I hear that tone in your voice, it tells me that you're anxious, you're frustrated, or you're hungry.

[140] See, those have been his three triggers since he was a little tiny boy.

[141] And he's 27 now.

[142] Guess what?

[143] Same triggers.

[144] If he gets anxious, frustrated, I'd throw frustration and being overwhelmed in there or hungry.

[145] Oh, he's a bear.

[146] That's where he's always been.

[147] So, Casey, every time I hear that tone in your voice, it tells me you're anxious, frustrated, or hungry.

[148] Listen, I need to go walk the dogs.

[149] I've got to fold laundry.

[150] I'm going to organize the garage right now.

[151] But when you're ready, if you want to join me, I'm curious about what's bugging you because I want to help you.

[152] Then I would give him some space and go about my business.

[153] See, let's break this down.

[154] See, I'm not acknowledging.

[155] ignoring him.

[156] I'm actually inviting him toward me instead of pushing him away.

[157] Keep talking to me like that, young man. You'd go to your room.

[158] No, I'm not sending my child away from me because at the very moment that he's being demanding or pushy or defiance, something's going on and I want to help him and just sending him away from me is not the message I want to send.

[159] Look, there's nothing wrong with that, especially at first as you're learning to be calm, separation can be a really helpful strategy.

[160] So I'm not demeaning that.

[161] I'm saying long term, I don't want to continue pushing kids away from me. When their world is out of control, I want to show them, my world's not out of control.

[162] I can handle you at your worst, right?

[163] I'm not escalating.

[164] I'm not reacting.

[165] I'm addressing his attitude, right?

[166] I'm not saying like, oh, I know you must have had a hard day.

[167] I'm not making an excuse for it, but I'm giving him wisdom.

[168] See, what I've noticed because I'm an observer of you is that when you get that tone, when you're demanding, it's usually because of your anxiety or you're overwhelmed or you're hungry.

[169] And do you know what it is if you really think about it?

[170] It's a beautiful, beautiful gift because I just gave him insight into why he's upset.

[171] set.

[172] See, I'm separating the behavior from the person because your only two options here are, hey, you defiant little snot, cut it out.

[173] You're not going to talk to me like that, right?

[174] That, what is a child supposed to do?

[175] Like, hey, you're a fine little snot.

[176] Well, I guess that's what I am.

[177] No, it's not who he is.

[178] Right.

[179] Now, some of your kids, it kind of is what they are at times because that's our outward behavior, but outward behavior is always a manifestation of something going on inside.

[180] I'm giving him insight to saying, you're not a fine little snot.

[181] You're just an anxious kid who gets really upset when things feel like they're out of your control or you're hungry right now.

[182] I'm giving them insight and I'm giving them hope because I know my son and I love my son, right?

[183] You're just an anxious or frustrated kid right now.

[184] So let me help you with that.

[185] Does that make sense.

[186] So our famous strategy was called the chips and salsa strategy, right?

[187] And when we travel, especially back in the day, people no matter where we went would bring us chips and salsa, right, because they had heard this story.

[188] So here's what it sounded like.

[189] Hey, Casey, listen, I can tell by your tone.

[190] Watch, notice my tone.

[191] I'm teaching.

[192] I'm not getting, I'm not getting tone myself.

[193] I'm not getting all upset.

[194] right after all i do for you i can't believe that you that's your issue if you don't mind it doesn't matter if you mind or not you're listening to my podcast so you're going to get the truth that you look it's your issue after all i do for you you know what i want just came it's just our immaturity right do you do you realize how awful that that thing is that's what your mother or father did to you after all i do for you do you know what that is that's manipulative That's pure manipulation.

[195] After all I do for you, right?

[196] That is manipulation because, see, I did all those things and now you owe me. That's not a relationship.

[197] That's not how it's supposed to work.

[198] So when you pull that out, that's totally your issue.

[199] And by the way, we address that in the Straight Talk for Mom's program, the 30 Days to Call them program.

[200] Some of these things are so deep -seed, in all of us.

[201] We all have generational patterns.

[202] We have to break that came from our parents.

[203] But here's the truth of that, after all I've done for you.

[204] You chose that.

[205] You chose to do too much for your child.

[206] You chose to get walked all over at times.

[207] You did, right?

[208] So do I. There's no blaming guilt in what we say, so please don't hear it like that.

[209] But you chose to do everything for them, right?

[210] They didn't wake up one morning.

[211] They're not going to wake up and say, to you, hey mom, listen, I just had a talk with my brother.

[212] We've determined you do way too much for us.

[213] This is not going to happen.

[214] They're going to take advantage of you.

[215] And if you're honest and you look through your relationships, you'll find that that pattern plays itself out.

[216] And your friends, some of your best friends, only call you when they need something.

[217] And people ask you to volunteer for committees.

[218] Why?

[219] Because they know you can't say no. And the beautiful part of this.

[220] It's not blame.

[221] It's not guilt.

[222] It is this.

[223] It's, oh, now this strong will child that I have is bringing out my own immaturity and showing me all these nasty generational patterns I have.

[224] Good.

[225] It's in the light now.

[226] I've got insight.

[227] Now I can change myself so that I can be different so that I don't get taken advantage of.

[228] So I do demonstrate self -respect.

[229] See, when you're like, after all I do for you, you owe me. It's like you are demanding respect from a child.

[230] You can't demand respect from another human being.

[231] If you have to demand it, you don't have it.

[232] Instead, I demonstrate self -respect.

[233] And I've done podcasts and done newsletters before where we've talked about the fact that sometimes your kids don't respect you because you don't respect yourself.

[234] And that's a deeper thing.

[235] But the beautiful thing is once you break free, of that, it changes all of your relationships because now you can have healthy relationships with people who give to you, two -way relationships.

[236] Because what?

[237] Look, do an inventory of your relationships and see if you didn't marry a controlling man or someone who needed help.

[238] Well, I just thought I could fix him.

[239] Well, that's that pattern playing out because you're needed now.

[240] see you he didn't marry you so that he could help you he kind of married and you guys didn't know this when you got married it's just a pattern that lives under the surface and you kind of drawn to each other and what he found was well I'm kind of needy and I need some help and she's willing to not have a voice in the relationship and it meets her need to try to fix people so we're kind of a perfect match until 13 or 15 years into marriage you find out that you're not getting anything from this and you're trying you thought you could fix him and that only lasts for so long.

[241] So I didn't plan to say that, but hopefully I'm saying that for a person who can use this to break free.

[242] You know how liberating that is?

[243] And now you can have a relationship that's two -way.

[244] And right?

[245] So, chips and salsa.

[246] Let me go back to it.

[247] I can tell by your tone, something's bothering you.

[248] So listen, I'm going to grab some chips.

[249] If you want to get the salsa, I'll meet you on the deck and I'll try to help you.

[250] See, the tone is just, it's a conversation.

[251] He's coming at me full on attitude, demanding, and I'm not going to react to that, and I'm not going to feed that.

[252] I'm just giving them wisdom to know.

[253] I can tell you, look, something's going on with you.

[254] So look, grab some chips, and I'm going to grab some salsa, and I'll meet you on the deck, and I'm going to try to help you.

[255] See, I'm giving space.

[256] If you listen to our programs, you're going to hear the phrase motion changes emotion because I like to use movement because it's extremely helpful.

[257] And I like to give space rather than getting up in his face of like, Like, I can't believe that you would talk to me like that.

[258] It just escalates every time.

[259] Look, if it worked, I'd tell you to do it.

[260] It doesn't work.

[261] And I like things that work.

[262] But the way that Casey, look, that chips and salsa example, that day that I was so frustrated and I was frustrated with him, because I didn't grow up like, my dad was career military.

[263] You didn't talk to your father like that.

[264] I didn't teach him to do that.

[265] And I was irritated.

[266] And I heard that tone.

[267] all the triggered in me is I need to be the grown -up.

[268] Something's going on with my son.

[269] This is an opportunity for me to turn something that's usually nasty and escalates into problem -solving.

[270] So I remember how I said it the first time.

[271] I was like, I'm going to grab some chips.

[272] Once you get some salsa, right?

[273] Like I was trying to do this calm thing.

[274] I'll meet you on the deck.

[275] And what it did is give me a minute to go open the fridge and get some salsa out of there.

[276] Right.

[277] And, and, And now the cool air helps me out.

[278] And it gives me two minutes away from my son and him two minutes away.

[279] And we meet in a different place.

[280] And now we're eating chips and salsa.

[281] Why is that effective?

[282] This is very simple.

[283] You never see two people eating chips and salsa yelling at each other.

[284] True?

[285] Throwing a couple margaritas.

[286] Everybody's happy.

[287] It changes the entire dynamic from me going face to face, toe to toe with my child to, I just invited him into a different atmosphere, right?

[288] That changed our relationship.

[289] It didn't just change it, it saved it, and it brought us closer.

[290] And watch, look, guess what I became, instead of the reactive yeller and lecturer who kept proving that I couldn't handle my strong -willed son, I became the wise problem solver that he could trust.

[291] And over time, he stopped using that tone, and he'd just say, hey, dad, I think it's a chips and salsa night.

[292] Do we always eat chips and salsa?

[293] No, but it was a way for him to say, I need to talk because something's bugging me. And that was his code for, right?

[294] That was code word.

[295] I love code words.

[296] What Casey teaches in school assemblies.

[297] By the way, he's doing Zoom school assemblies for kids all across the country, which is really awesome.

[298] Because usually it's very expensive for us to travel for him to do a school assembly, but now he can do it right from here.

[299] And you can do it for kids of all ages.

[300] So email him about that because schools, we need kids to learn how to control their own emotions and impulses.

[301] And one thing he teaches kids that they love is to go home and come up with a code word with their parents because kids are tired of losing all their stuff for saying bad things.

[302] And so we did that.

[303] You can do this.

[304] We'll give you the scripts.

[305] All you have to do is kind of repeat as follows.

[306] And when you do that, it will change your relationships.

[307] It will change your home.

[308] and you'll be ready to handle all the other stuff.

[309] So I want you to practice that this week.

[310] It's practiced the right tone.

[311] It's practice the script.

[312] If we can help you, email Casey, C -A -S -E -Y, at Celebrate Calm .com.

[313] Go into the website.

[314] You'll find the school boot camp, which is awesome because I'm personally mentoring people through the school year.

[315] And there is also the, we're doing the back -to -school huge sale to get everything package, whatever you want.

[316] If you need help, email us.

[317] It's what we live to do.

[318] But thank you for joining us.

[319] And let me know what else you want to hear on here because I love doing the Defiance stuff.

[320] And I'm going to send out a couple newsletters this week on Defiance.

[321] So if you don't get our newsletter, email Casey about that or sign up on the website as well, because then you can kind of see it written out in front of you.

[322] And that's kind of helpful because we have parents who will keep up our emails in a special folder.

[323] And then that way, you just pull it up and you can see like, oh, there's the script.

[324] It's kind of cool.

[325] Anyway, thank you for joining us.

[326] Love you all.

[327] See you soon.

[328] Bye -bye.

[329] Thank you.