Matthew Lillard

[0] Hello, I'm Dax Shepherd.

[1] Welcome to Armchair Expert.

[2] It's Monday.

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[19] Today, this is basically part two, if you think about it.

[20] Yeah, it is.

[21] It's part two.

[22] When we had Seth Green on, which was such a wonderful episode for me, because I just got to just stroll through memory lane, that sweet, well -spoken son of a bitch.

[23] It begged the natural question And we knew that we must speak with Matthew Lillard It was also now been a friend for over 15 years I think everyone's going to be so delighted When they listen to him They are He's such a revelation of kindness and funness And light Light yeah He's a really wonderful person And it was so fun to talk to him He sits down within two seconds He's into like a nine minute story that I find completely entertaining the whole ride through.

[24] Oh, yeah.

[25] He's also in Good Girls, which is an NBC show.

[26] And it's returning this fall on NBC.

[27] Spring?

[28] Oh, whatever.

[29] He's on Good Girls.

[30] I don't know when it comes out, but when it does come out, you should watch it because it's he and our favorite resident BB May Whitman, along with other people.

[31] So everybody, enjoy my old good pal, Matthew Lillard.

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[35] He's an upchair.

[36] He's an upcher expert.

[37] What if I fail?

[38] What if I don't do this right?

[39] No, you can't fail.

[40] There's no failure.

[41] Failure is not an option.

[42] But you have all these charming, funny people.

[43] Yeah, you are one of them.

[44] When I'm not, what if I blow it?

[45] No, put on your headphones first and foremost.

[46] That way we'll both sound way smarter to each other.

[47] Didn't I just get smarter?

[48] You just sound dreamy.

[49] But Matt Lillard, hi, welcome.

[50] Yeah, do you find that as you get older, I'm like, I'm turning into a fucking Ferrari.

[51] Like, if I don't put the exact right thing into my gas tank, I'm going to be broken down on the side of the road.

[52] Like you were just saying that you eat garlic now and it makes you fucking depressed.

[53] Garlic will jack me up for days.

[54] Like I have, there's a tendency to beat a child if I've had garlic.

[55] Too much garlic.

[56] Oh, it makes, my poor white, I mean, it literally cripples me. Yeah.

[57] And I'll say to people all the time, I'm allergic to garlic.

[58] Oh, there's no garlic in this.

[59] And then two days later, I'm like, you lied.

[60] You're storming out of the house.

[61] Oh, God, it's just miserable.

[62] But it's, it's humiliating to me because what, what happened, and I don't know if it's because I've cut out so many things that I actually have experienced what it's like to feel.

[63] good.

[64] Right.

[65] And now I'm just really sensitive to when I don't feel good.

[66] Sure.

[67] But to your point, I don't eat garlic because it inflames my arthritis.

[68] So like my knee will start burning two hours after I eat garlicy chicken.

[69] My knee will just be on fire.

[70] Really?

[71] Yes.

[72] And then if I eat sugar now, I get the thing you get from garlic where like I'm miserable for two days.

[73] I'm like, I'm pessimistic.

[74] I hate my family.

[75] Because of sugar?

[76] Yes.

[77] Oh, wow.

[78] Like I'm becoming, I feel like in 20 years, I'm just going to have water.

[79] When did you get so, dialed into physical, I mean, we're just talking about the fact that you were as shredded as any human in movies during chips.

[80] So when did that?

[81] I'm so glad you noticed.

[82] No women noticed.

[83] Only other guys.

[84] Get out of you.

[85] No, it's true.

[86] That is not true.

[87] They don't want to talk about it.

[88] No. That's not true.

[89] That's not true.

[90] It's true.

[91] Let me tell you something.

[92] It was uncomfortable.

[93] It was uncomfortable how yoke you were.

[94] I've gotten in shape twice for a good, for movies.

[95] And in my response from both times, not a single woman has ever said like, Oh, your body looked good in that movie.

[96] 100 % of the compliments come from other dudes.

[97] Like, I was getting on an airplane and I was walking down the aisle.

[98] And some dude just held his fist out and he goes, got dieseled out and went in Rome, bro.

[99] And, like, put his fist up.

[100] And I'm like, why want a girl say that to me?

[101] I want so bad for a woman.

[102] You don't want that now, not your time.

[103] No, no. I'm just like you.

[104] I don't see.

[105] I'm going to expose you.

[106] Oh, no, no, no. Hit the, stop the tape.

[107] You are a monogamous man. I've witnessed it.

[108] I've witnessed it with my own eyes.

[109] you are an ironclad monogamous.

[110] It's very impressive.

[111] Thank you.

[112] I will say this.

[113] Yeah.

[114] I treated it very, when we were doing without a paddle.

[115] Yes.

[116] I treated it as an addict.

[117] If I, if I start, if I know if I do it once, I'm screwed.

[118] Yeah.

[119] Once you open the door, forget it, right?

[120] Yeah.

[121] All the horses are going to run out.

[122] I just would be, it would be no good.

[123] But you also like approval from people like I do.

[124] we share that in common, I think.

[125] I enjoy approval.

[126] That was hard for you.

[127] No, but I enjoy approval, but I will say that the, I feel like 18 years of marriage on Sunday, this last Sunday.

[128] Oh, congratulations.

[129] Thank you, which in Hollywood is like 57 years of marriage.

[130] Absolutely.

[131] In an age of Twitter and Instagram.

[132] Yeah, it's, it's, um, but I don't really.

[133] I don't know that part of me is kind of It's dying Yeah in a really kind of sad way We were just talking about getting in shape And like there's a part of me It's like so it's funny So I'm on the show with May Yeah, good girls Good girls Christina Hendricks plays my wife Uh huh And on the show She is falling in love With this guy named Rio With this character named Rio With this character named Rio Which is played by this guy Manny Montana Okay He's gorgeous Is he an Adonis He's lovely And Hispanic and beautiful and in the show they're getting together and as they get together I'm getting jealous in real life.

[134] Real life.

[135] I'm like here is my like everyone online is like we can't wait for them to get together I'm like step back that's my pretend wife.

[136] Yes sure but it becomes this thing I was like wait a sec at my I'm 48 I'm almost 50 and they used to walk into a room and they used to be impact like you would walk into a room and you'd be like you know people would notice.

[137] Well, let me, and let me elaborate on that, because I worked with you at the height of your powers, I think, what I would think.

[138] You were like, you were a man, you had a family, you were making a good living, you're, you're tall as fuck.

[139] I don't know that people realize that.

[140] You are taller than me. It is the first comment out of everyone's mind.

[141] 100 % of people.

[142] 100 %.

[143] Yeah, say, wow, you're taller in real life.

[144] Yes, when you walk into a room, people are aware of it.

[145] Yes.

[146] It doesn't go unnoticed.

[147] Yes.

[148] Okay.

[149] Please continue.

[150] I just wanted to brag for you.

[151] And there was a time, well, there was a time when you would be the guy walking in that room who was in Scream at the height of scream or in, you know, whatever movie people identify you with.

[152] And you would have some kind of sexual relevance.

[153] Sure.

[154] Some capital.

[155] You would have some.

[156] Yeah, you would have capital.

[157] There you know, sexual capital.

[158] And the older I've gotten, the less that capital means is transactable.

[159] It's not in.

[160] You walk in the room.

[161] it's not the same thing.

[162] And I do think that there's this really interesting junction in life where men and women become sexually irrelevant.

[163] Yeah.

[164] Yeah.

[165] And I think that's a super interesting place.

[166] It's dicey for your identity and your ego, I think.

[167] Yeah.

[168] And that's where that midlife crisis kind of comes in.

[169] Well, and now compound what you're experiencing with you never left Washington.

[170] So I had a great conversation with one of my best friends.

[171] And he's been married for about the same time I've been married.

[172] And we went out to dinner one night.

[173] And he, out of all my friends, like, all through my 20s in L .A., every girl was in love with him.

[174] I mean, hands down, if I was by him, no one was going to see me because they were in love with him.

[175] So I said to him, you have a hard time being monogamous.

[176] You know, you've been married for X amount of years.

[177] And he just looked at me so frankly.

[178] And he goes, um, Dax, I'm not on TV.

[179] So it's quite fucking easy.

[180] Not one girl likes me. 50.

[181] I'm married.

[182] I have two kids and I've put on some pounds.

[183] It's very easy for me to give us.

[184] It is not a challenge.

[185] And it was a pretty good wake up call for me where I was like, oh, right.

[186] And if I was back in Michigan just at 43, nobody would care.

[187] Yes, it was a good.

[188] Nobody would care.

[189] Absolutely.

[190] Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, uh, I don't know.

[191] It's tricky, right?

[192] But are you getting older.

[193] Yeah, yeah, getting older.

[194] And also like, I do think that there was a time in my life where I was at the height of my power and you know I'm not at that place anymore I haven't been at that place for a long time and that sort of I mean look I was an actor when I was 21 I was doing a movie yeah and that sort of fall on the under and there was a moment where and I owe my agent and my manager at the time like an apology because I would I would obsess about it my next job I would hold on to what's coming.

[195] What's next?

[196] What's next?

[197] Because I had always worked.

[198] And at some point, I was like taking a movie.

[199] It wasn't a lot of money, but I took it because I'm like, I got to feed my kids.

[200] Yeah.

[201] And that was like.

[202] And stay busy.

[203] And that's how I define myself.

[204] And that was like, you know, X amount of dollars.

[205] Yes.

[206] And then the next time you need a job and money, it was less.

[207] Uh -huh.

[208] Yeah.

[209] You're on the opposite trajectory.

[210] And I'm now taking jobs, not for work, not for creative sort of empowerment, but literally to feed kids.

[211] Yeah.

[212] And it was, you know, it's humiliating, it's humbling.

[213] It's that thing where my father -in -law, who I love to pieces, said to me, you know, because we were struggling.

[214] And we had money because I made a lot of money on Scooby, too.

[215] Right.

[216] I mean, it's all relative.

[217] Sure.

[218] But at the time, it was a lot of - It also did well on the house in Pasadena.

[219] Yeah, it did great on the house in Pasadena.

[220] I know your finance is pretty well.

[221] You do.

[222] Yeah.

[223] I always counted people's money.

[224] It is.

[225] It's terrible.

[226] That was your, is it still your thing?

[227] No, not as much.

[228] You identified success.

[229] in that way.

[230] That's all, that was the indicator to me. 100%.

[231] And I remember we would have conversations about that.

[232] I was like, it was so funny to me at that time during without a paddle that that was your thing.

[233] Because I was like, it won't be that for long.

[234] Well, and I had been penniless for 10 years.

[235] For sure.

[236] So when I went to your house during without a paddle and I saw where you lived, I was like, how the fuck do I get there?

[237] And you were building a pool in your backyard.

[238] I was like, this guy's like Thurston Howl?

[239] Like, it was mind blowing to me. That's hilarious.

[240] You were at, you sold, you sold me your Porsche to get a new BMW 740 IL.

[241] I love me. And I was just like, look at this life.

[242] I must not have to brush his teeth in the morning or watch somebody come by.

[243] You were the total fantasy for me of like Hollywood success.

[244] You know, it's so weird that in that moment.

[245] Because you were probably focused on someone else above you.

[246] Never looking down at me going, never.

[247] Oh, this motherfucker's in a one bedroom apartment.

[248] I love my house all of a sudden.

[249] It never works that way, right?

[250] It looks.

[251] I mean, you look at it.

[252] Your life now.

[253] It's crazy.

[254] It's crazy.

[255] You have no way to sort of to articulate.

[256] I mean, it's really hard to define.

[257] And I do think that something about that, something about success.

[258] Something about my life was always about the ladder going up.

[259] If you are looking down in this business, you're done.

[260] Or anytime I stopped in my life and was like, hey, I can get into this club.

[261] Hey, I can get to Vegas.

[262] You know, anytime I was like, oh, I've made it.

[263] Like, I wouldn't work.

[264] And I was like, you idiot.

[265] You are nothing.

[266] You're shit.

[267] You suck.

[268] You have to keep going.

[269] It's a terrible paradox because at one time, your brain rightly is saying, hey, stop and appreciate what you got.

[270] Yes.

[271] And that is how you should live your life.

[272] In general, if you want to feel good.

[273] Yes.

[274] It's like take stock, have a gratitude list.

[275] Recognize this is the analogy you and I used to fight about all the time.

[276] I don't know if you remember it.

[277] But remember, I used to.

[278] to say to you, you're in the NBA, Matt, shut the fuck up.

[279] Like, you're not Jordan.

[280] Who cares?

[281] Do you remember you got so mad at me one time because I said, you're not going to be Sean Penn. Do you remember that?

[282] No, I don't.

[283] Does it trigger?

[284] I have terrible memory for these kind of things.

[285] But even when I say it now, does it trigger you a bit that I would.

[286] Because I'm like, fuck that.

[287] I am going to be Sean Penn. Fuck Sean Penn. That's right.

[288] Yeah, yeah.

[289] And I, again, I had a perspective on your life that I've never had on my own.

[290] But I was looking at you going, dude, you're.

[291] crushing.

[292] You're the lead of movies and they're successful and you're making great money.

[293] Stop looking at Sean Penn. You're in the NBA.

[294] You're on the road.

[295] You have a jersey.

[296] Terrible.

[297] Terrible.

[298] I could see it in you, but it was very hard to see it in myself.

[299] I don't want to be the guy coming off the bench.

[300] You want to be the guy in the fourth quarter is like, give me the ball.

[301] Yes.

[302] And I don't want, and this is the problem with my life.

[303] My problem with my life is that I would rather make no money be in buck fuck.

[304] Timbuktu and doing a great part where I could be an incredible actor.

[305] Rather than making a lot of money and just doing a whatever part.

[306] Yes.

[307] And you from day one since I met you, that became very salient.

[308] That is what you wanted.

[309] You took acting very seriously.

[310] You went to what circle in the square was in New York?

[311] I can't believe I'm remembering this stuff.

[312] This is crazy.

[313] This is 15 years ago.

[314] And I can even remember, I can even remember now that I'm staring at your face that you went to a, you were in Serial Mom.

[315] That was like one of your first roles, right?

[316] And then you went to some lecture and Todd Phillips asked you a question.

[317] Oh, that's hilarious.

[318] Then this happened.

[319] So, yeah, so two things.

[320] First of all, and I do think there's a part of your brain that like records emotion, right?

[321] I mean, obviously, and the sense of fear for a career.

[322] Because there's also this thing that's written that's in me that this drive is like about fear.

[323] It's about never working again.

[324] Of course.

[325] It's about like, oh, I got this is how I define my life.

[326] I've been a kid doing it my whole life.

[327] If I don't do it anymore, then what the hell am I?

[328] But and Ricky Lake and cereal mom took me to lunch one morning one afternoon.

[329] Like when we first got down there, I just left.

[330] I literally walked into my waiting job and I quit on a Saturday night.

[331] I'm like, I quit.

[332] And he's like, you're doing a movie.

[333] So what?

[334] You'll come back and get a job.

[335] I'm like, I'll never come back.

[336] And then he's like, if you don't cover your shift, you're never coming back.

[337] I'm like, I don't care.

[338] Cut to, I've never been back.

[339] Did you float out of the restaurant?

[340] Yeah, I was like, I was like, I got a movie.

[341] Like, all my friends from school came up, we all got drunk, it was awesome.

[342] And you were going to circle in the square at that time?

[343] And I was, it was just at the end of Circle and the Squares.

[344] Like last month of school.

[345] And what is that?

[346] A two -year program?

[347] It was my third audition.

[348] Of your life.

[349] Of my life.

[350] I mean, I had, I mean, this is kind of like my, I had the crazy career.

[351] Because I would walk into a room.

[352] you have the same thing you I have no problem talking to anyone I could talk to anyone yeah I'm fine in my own skin I'm gonna do my job I'm gonna do my work if it goes well for you great if not it's not gonna go my way I mean yes I get desperate and yes I want jobs but I'm gonna come in with energy I'm gonna come in blue collar I'm gonna outwork everyone yeah and I'm gonna do a badass job yeah and it worked yeah um but I was I just got my first movie I was in Baltimore.

[353] Ricky Lake took me to Breck lunch and she said at some point and I don't think she meant it in a bad way but she said, you know, there's a lot of people that only do one movie and never do another job.

[354] Yeah, yeah.

[355] And in the back of my mind, I'm like, I can't imagine that.

[356] What would I do?

[357] I mean, what would I do?

[358] Yeah.

[359] And that fear has always been in, like has always sort of been in me. But Todd Phillips, the first time I ever saw myself on screen was at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

[360] Todd Phillips was sitting behind me. Oh, okay.

[361] And he's like, hey, that was good work.

[362] Congratulations.

[363] And I'm like, that's the first time I've ever seen myself in a movie.

[364] And he's like, hi.

[365] I'm like, what's your name?

[366] He's like, Todd Phillips.

[367] I'm like, you know, I never remembered.

[368] But like three years later, we were at Sundance.

[369] And he's like, I, we met before.

[370] Oh, wow.

[371] He remembered.

[372] Oh, that's pretty cool.

[373] And that was a John Waters movie, right?

[374] Yeah.

[375] And did you have an awareness then?

[376] like what John Waters was.

[377] No. No. I mean, for you is just, the headline was it's a movie.

[378] Oh, yeah, with Kathleen Turner.

[379] Right.

[380] Sam Waterston.

[381] And then you had this thing where they had these things called, there was like pages and like heart.

[382] It was a book.

[383] You've ever seen these things?

[384] Never seen a book.

[385] There's these books.

[386] Wait, it's a book.

[387] Yeah, it's a book.

[388] It's like this thing you would go and then you would have these words.

[389] Okay.

[390] Sure.

[391] So when you, So when I got this John Waters movie, like there was a thing called Pink Flamingo, and I was like, I don't know what that is.

[392] And there was a guy named Divine.

[393] I was like, who is that?

[394] And so I went and bought a book about John Waters' life.

[395] Before you started filming?

[396] Yeah, because I was like, no, because I was going down there.

[397] I learned to meet the guy.

[398] Yeah.

[399] Did you get scared when you became aware of his work?

[400] Yeah, because he is like, he has a bookshelf full of like, John Wayne Gacy painting and a book.

[401] a bookshelf full of serial killer books and an electric chair probably without without doubt the most eclectic interesting director of all time john waters just as a human being right a true original like nobody like his whole life is an art installation 100 % well i had seen pink flamingos because it was really big in the punk rock world as was john wangaysie weirdly like so i was we watched pink flamingo all the time like what is this thing so but but if i had signed down to a movie and then discovered, I would be a little nervous.

[402] Dude, I rented pink flamingo.

[403] Have you ever seen it, Monica?

[404] No, never.

[405] I think I can just give you a highlight of it that'll probably let you know about what to expect.

[406] A man gets in a weird yoga pose at one point and he's bare naked and then he just, he makes his anus go all the way open, then push out and then all the way open.

[407] And you just sit there.

[408] They hold on that shot for quite a while.

[409] And you're seeing something you didn't know that was anatomically possible.

[410] And it's very.

[411] It's a movie.

[412] it's a film it's a narrative it wasn't like a porn film but almost should have been and there was like a chicken scene how big did his anus get so scary big as big as you like to be truthful with you if you were standing across and you threw a grapefruit at it I think it would have landed inside no wouldn't you say I don't remember that boy I don't remember that clearly it blew really is upset yeah yeah it was it was it was it was a lot to take in Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare What's up guys, this is your girl Kiki And my podcast is back with a new season And let me tell you it's too good And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest Okay, every episode I bring on a friend And I don't mean just friends I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox The list goes on So follow, watch and listen to Baby This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[413] We've all been there.

[414] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

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[416] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

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[422] You know, part of it's your own fault in your own ego, right?

[423] Like, I'll own my own fault, my own ego.

[424] But then another part of you is there is a chorus of people around you telling you your life's about to change.

[425] Like, so you thought, oh, I'm in this movie.

[426] Sky's the Limit, which is, you know, of course you thought that.

[427] We all think that way.

[428] But then also there was probably people around you going, you are fucking killing this movie.

[429] You're doing a great job.

[430] Every movie.

[431] When this comes out, things like, because that was happening to me. I'm without a paddle.

[432] And I had zero experience.

[433] So I'm like, I really started thinking.

[434] they must be right.

[435] I'm going to be Adam Sandler.

[436] They were right.

[437] But they were, well, they were right in that I have been lucky enough to keep going, which is fucking awesome.

[438] But what I was hearing is that I'm literally Adam Sandler.

[439] Right.

[440] Or that, you know, they were confirming this fantasy I had that I could be a franchise comedian, like Will Ferrell and those guys.

[441] Yeah.

[442] Like I think you were looking at more dramatic actors.

[443] Yeah.

[444] Oh, for sure.

[445] Your North Star was probably different than mine.

[446] Well, Sean Penn was that, he was your Will Ferrell.

[447] Well, I mean, in a way, yeah.

[448] Kind of ironic, isn't it that you, because when I, for, let me start a couple things at the beginning of our relationship that people won't know.

[449] One is, I first saw you act, although I did see serial mom, I don't know that I remembered that.

[450] But I saw a scream and I was immediately very attracted to you.

[451] I told you that when we did without a paddle.

[452] Like, you were a breakout star to me. A lot of people got famous during that time.

[453] But I didn't, I didn't, like, Skeet Ulrich never blew up my dress or whatever.

[454] Sure.

[455] But watching you and Scream, I was like, oh, this is what Nicholas Cage would do today.

[456] And it's rare for me as a man to like, it's just a dick part of me, maybe.

[457] I don't want to give it up to another tall male or whatever the fuck it is.

[458] I never, I mean, you have that sort of competitive thing and you have that testosterone thing, but I never felt.

[459] Not, I don't think in our job.

[460] But just for me to acknowledge that some guy is big and loud and awesome and he's, pulling it off.

[461] And I'm kind of like, well, wait, that's my gig in my circle.

[462] To acknowledge someone else doing it and actually love it and support it.

[463] I just think it's a big.

[464] It's a big thing.

[465] So, so I liked you.

[466] More importantly, I pined in a way that you'll never understand, even though you dated her.

[467] The way I love Neff Campbell watching Party of Five will never know an equal.

[468] I would sit on the bed and my fucking heart would hurt watching the show.

[469] And I would think if we don't end up married, there's been like my whole life is a disaster.

[470] I felt so strongly towards her, right?

[471] So my friend Nate Tuck, he produces this movie.

[472] I'm basically an extra in the movie.

[473] Nev Campbell's in it.

[474] I've told the story in here.

[475] I'm trying to impress her.

[476] I've been up all night drinking with some of the other extras and maybe powdering my nose.

[477] And then I find her at the morning breakfast bar.

[478] And I just am next to her.

[479] and she's like, what are you going to get?

[480] And then I think which will be cool is I go, well, I think I'm going to drink my breakfast.

[481] She's like, oh, okay.

[482] Now that I see it all through her eyes, it just couldn't have been a worse approach.

[483] And then you showed up.

[484] You came to set to visit her.

[485] And you sat in a room and you played.

[486] This is before we knew each other.

[487] Way before we knew each other, years before we knew each other.

[488] You were either playing chess or poker.

[489] Probably.

[490] I think chess.

[491] For sure, chess.

[492] Yeah.

[493] So you were traveling with a chess board.

[494] Yeah.

[495] Which is amazing in and of itself.

[496] But I turned the corner and like she was like next to you and I saw you and I just had this like, oh wow.

[497] He's also a beast on top of it.

[498] Like I knew you from scream.

[499] But then in real life, I'm like, oh my God, he's really handsome in real life.

[500] Very charming and gregarious.

[501] And you were dressed really cool and you're fucking playing chess.

[502] What a move.

[503] And I was just like, yeah, he's the better man. Like, I remember in my head thinking, that dude's way cooler than me. He's successful.

[504] He's playing chess.

[505] He's got good clothes.

[506] And he's taller than me. And I just, I like, it's so great.

[507] Because, of course, you saw me. I saw you.

[508] You would never know that.

[509] But it was burned into my mind.

[510] Seeing you.

[511] You were wearing a cool hat, like kind of a cabby.

[512] Sure.

[513] Killian Murphy hat.

[514] You were crushing.

[515] We then worked together.

[516] Yes.

[517] And then we fell in love.

[518] That's my.

[519] journey with you.

[520] That's hilarious.

[521] How long did you take you to leave New York and come to L .A.?

[522] So I left New York to audition.

[523] I was a reader in Hackers.

[524] So Hackers was a movie I did with Angelina Jolie and John Lee Miller.

[525] And somebody asked me to do, to read across from actresses in the room.

[526] I was friends with casting director.

[527] And by the end of the second day, had read as the lead against all these women and Ian softly who's the director was like I want you to fly out to L .A. and test for the lead in hackers.

[528] Which I didn't get but that weekend that I was in L .A. I got three different jobs in like one like in one week in one five day period.

[529] One of them was a movie called scary movie which ended up becoming scream.

[530] One of them was a pilot.

[531] Oh wow.

[532] Scream was called scary movie and then they did scary movie.

[533] And then afterwards yeah.

[534] And so I got three jobs.

[535] I was like, well, clearly I have to come back to L .A. And I just got a TV show.

[536] And then I did scream.

[537] And I had a girlfriend for a long time.

[538] And we broke up.

[539] And then I started to Neve right afterwards.

[540] And you grew up weirdly in a town, not grew up, but you were born like eight miles from me in Brighton, Michigan.

[541] It's crazy.

[542] Right?

[543] Right.

[544] Right.

[545] Right.

[546] Yeah.

[547] And you left there at what, six or something?

[548] I always say 10, but it's like six.

[549] Yeah, isn't it weird how we do that?

[550] Well, I was to me, because I think that, I mean, people like, where'd you grow up?

[551] And I always say, I always say Detroit.

[552] Uh -huh.

[553] It's not Detroit.

[554] No. Nor is Milford where I'm from, but I too say Detroit.

[555] Yeah.

[556] I mean, I'm going to fucking take an hour to explain to people what Milford is.

[557] You got to pull out the mitten.

[558] Yeah, exactly.

[559] But there is that thing about, I do think that thing about Detroit or people from Michigan or the Midwest.

[560] There's a sense of pride that you don't have in a lot of other places.

[561] Yeah.

[562] And you moved to Orange County, right?

[563] Yeah, we moved Orange County.

[564] My mom and dad moved Orange County.

[565] And I was this kid with, you know, I had a sister and my dad started his own business and my mom worked with him.

[566] And the handsome stud I met.

[567] I love that.

[568] That's not.

[569] I have to.

[570] Never the handsome stud.

[571] Yes, you are.

[572] You're 100%.

[573] I had one job as a handsome stud.

[574] That was our job.

[575] No, no, no, no, no. In real life, you were a handsome stud.

[576] I saw you and you were with my girl and I was approving of it.

[577] So sorry.

[578] No, do you know what a compliment that is to you?

[579] That is hilarious.

[580] That you were with my lady.

[581] And I was happy for her.

[582] I was like, you chose correctly.

[583] You did well, boo.

[584] But as we became close on without a paddle, we all started exchanging kind of embarrassing stories.

[585] Seth had a bunch of great ones.

[586] I think that we had embarrassing ones.

[587] And you told one that really just was a knockout punch.

[588] Oh, my God.

[589] So I'm going to find out in the makeup trailer that you, You had been a mime in high school, which put you just in a very unique category right out of the gates.

[590] Because how, Monica, did you know any mimes in high school?

[591] Do you know what a mime is?

[592] Of course.

[593] Maybe not.

[594] I know about mimes, but I don't know any mimes.

[595] I have never met a mime until I worked with you at 28 years old or something.

[596] The worst part of that being that mime was that I was this obese teenager.

[597] So you were a little heavier when you were a kid.

[598] kid.

[599] Yes.

[600] Yes.

[601] And your mime name, he had a mime name which was his own name backwards which was Tam.

[602] Yeah.

[603] How do you remember these things?

[604] Your memory is crazy.

[605] Well you have to imagine, um, A, my memory might be good or bad, but imagine what you would remember if without a pedal was your first movie.

[606] Okay.

[607] Like that was my first movie.

[608] There will never be an experience in my mind that takes up as much data.

[609] Right.

[610] Because everything was new.

[611] Meeting you, meeting Seth.

[612] like looking up to you guys learning the ropes from you got all that being in fucking rivers jumping off cliffs like the whole thing i later discovered was very unique in and of itself even if it wasn't the first movie never been a movie i've never been any anything close to that before i've never worked that hard since no yeah it was nuts we worked like six day weeks and we traveled on the seventh day we're in cold ass water several hours of the day yeah and we were i mean i do think that there was the fellowship between the three of us oh That was sort of, I've never experienced that since.

[613] No, and part of it, and I'm going to come back to Tam, but part of it was this really cool thing that I think irked me at the beginning, which was we were there very early.

[614] We were there a few weeks before we started filming, which again is also unique.

[615] I've not had that sense where they sent me out a month earlier or whatever.

[616] And we had all this training, so we would all learn to canoe together in the rapids with Augie.

[617] Remember Augie?

[618] Sweeties, sweeties.

[619] He'd be yelling directions at us on the side, on the bank of the river.

[620] as you're screaming down the river in a Canadian canoe with Seth talking in the so what would happen is we get on these rapids and it was a straight adrenaline I mean I would get on the front and remember he said look if anything goes wrong on the river save your own life to me I was like he's like nobody's going to be able to save you because it's a river yeah it's good advice like if your foot gets caught it's you and nature and one of you's going to win yeah you can't really guide yourself over to somebody in a class three rapid and it's like you're stuck you're you got to get out and so every single time we got in that river i was like i'm for sure going to die but there was this scene that had to be got i don't think i've ever experienced a highlight this sense on a movie but there was a scene where they had to shoot us um navigating this like class three rapid and we had to get through and in and paddle out of it it couldn't be cheated no no do you remember this so we went down this fucking rapid i must we must have gone a dozen times we couldn't get through it there's a huge way there's a big wave at the end of the end of the of it that we had to get through.

[621] And every time...

[622] Easily a five, four or five foot way.

[623] And you were like in a flat bottom canoe.

[624] And every time you'd collapse and they would go, guys, and they would give you what you had to do right.

[625] I'm like, man, I'm fucking trying.

[626] Yes.

[627] I'm trying to stay in the canoe because I don't want to die.

[628] So we would either capsize, which happened most frequently.

[629] Or we would just sink the fucking canoe.

[630] We wouldn't capsize, but we would just submerge it.

[631] We'd take on so much water all of a sudden we'd be paddling like, and we'd be up to our shoulders.

[632] And your feet are pinned under the seat and I just remember going oh my god I'm going to get stuck in this damn canoe and when we finally got it which we never really even if you remember the one that we finally got that that is in the movie the canoe has got about nine inches of water in it like we're not fully buoyant but I remember we got through it and we raised our paddles above our head because we were not tipped over and we weren't fully submerged right and just the elation of having tried it that many times and gotten through it.

[633] Oh, dude.

[634] And you remember, I mean, Seth would sit in the middle of us.

[635] Of course Seth.

[636] He's just a passenger.

[637] He does nothing.

[638] But all he would do to get away from his adrenaline would talk.

[639] So he would sit there and talk.

[640] I am shitting my pants in the front.

[641] And Dax has no fear whatsoever.

[642] We have a, so I just cleaned out my garage and I found like all these old videotapes and I got them transferred over.

[643] And one of all is that of us.

[644] shooting those rapids.

[645] Oh, really?

[646] Yeah, they put together like a best of hit.

[647] Oh, I would love to see that.

[648] I'll send it.

[649] I'll bring it over.

[650] We've been meaning to screen the movie now for 12 years.

[651] Me and Seth have been on many text change going.

[652] We must sit down and we want to watch the second one because they made a second one without any of us in it.

[653] So here's my question.

[654] Do you get, remember, I used to have this thing, especially back then.

[655] I would say to everyone I ever worked with, well, we'll never be friends.

[656] Yeah, that was your kind of thing.

[657] That was my thing.

[658] I was like.

[659] It's almost like what you do to like a girl to try.

[660] or something you were like you were the gaming me i was like i accept your challenge motherfucker i'll be your friend for life i will ride or die for you bro but you had done enough movies that you were like listen i need to warn you dax i can see you're at camp and you're having a great time but we're never going to be friends yeah and you almost said it like uh like a mantra i said it all the time we're never going to be friends yes it's weird isn't that weird and i do think become a self -fulfilling prophecy oh i i think it's miserable i mean i don't yeah hang out with anyone.

[661] I mean, I never see you.

[662] You never see Seth.

[663] I mean, you know, but I see Seth.

[664] We weren't saying that.

[665] We weren't saying.

[666] Seth and I weren't saying that.

[667] That wasn't our mantra.

[668] And magically, we do see each other.

[669] He does.

[670] You don't, do you call him up and say let's go do something?

[671] Um, yeah.

[672] Or do you just see each other out.

[673] No, I make it a point that at least once a year, I either go to his house or he comes to my house.

[674] We get it together or we'll have a lunch.

[675] We do.

[676] We won't go more than a year, I don't think.

[677] And then, yes, I'll go do his cartoon, so I'll see him or whatever will happen.

[678] And then I bump into him.

[679] But I have the same thing with him that I have with you, which is I could probably see you in 30 years and I'd feel exactly the same.

[680] But I do think maybe it was a self -fulfilling prophecy for you.

[681] I really hate that about me. Do you think that you had been burned on a previous movie and you as a wall of protection?

[682] Well, there's no doubt.

[683] Look, so going back to that little piece of your emotional memory, you know, Sam Waterston and I played chess every single day in Syria home.

[684] And it was the week before we wrapped.

[685] And I said, you know, next week we'll play in New York.

[686] And he's like, oh, buddy, we'll never see each other again.

[687] And I was like, I'll show you cut to I have never seen Sam Waters Stadium.

[688] Not even one day since that movie came out.

[689] Okay.

[690] Tam.

[691] 1987.

[692] Let's go back.

[693] Let's go back.

[694] Was it about 87?

[695] Well, I graduated high school in 88.

[696] 89.

[697] It was 88.

[698] I don't think I don't think I did it my senior year.

[699] I was definitely old enough to drive.

[700] So, like, 86 or 87?

[701] Yeah, as I remember, is your junior year.

[702] Probably right.

[703] This story, Monica, you're so not prepared for it.

[704] I really can't wait.

[705] So I'm just going to set the scene, which is that, and this is by his account, not mine.

[706] I never saw him at this age.

[707] He believes he was overweight at the time.

[708] That's relevant to the story a little bit.

[709] I think it's very pertinent.

[710] Okay.

[711] His performance name is Tam.

[712] Yeah.

[713] Not a great, because it is a woman's name.

[714] It sounds like a short version of Tam.

[715] I thought it was pretty clever.

[716] I like that.

[717] There was no Google.

[718] You couldn't Google my names.

[719] You were not doing yourself a single favor in this scenario.

[720] Your name was Tam.

[721] Okay.

[722] And then just tell Monica what you did at the school fair.

[723] So I thought it wasn't school.

[724] It was the church.

[725] The church was the only place I was really accepted because I was like, I was not, I was in the drama.

[726] I mean, I played sports growing up.

[727] I was friends with all the jocke.

[728] my sophomore year, I was like full drama all the time.

[729] So I kind of, and I was like right around then, real fat.

[730] Anyways, but the, uh, so I, I felt like I, I felt when I put, Lycra was a new development.

[731] Likera was a thing that just come out.

[732] It wasn't around.

[733] You hear Monica's most honest response.

[734] Oh, mm. It's like someone just kind of kicked her.

[735] Oh, I can't.

[736] Lycra was new.

[737] No, Lycra was new.

[738] And I had bike shorts.

[739] that were, I had a yellow stripe down the side of my bike shorts.

[740] I don't know why.

[741] I didn't bike.

[742] I did not bike.

[743] I never biked.

[744] I don't know why I had Lycra bike shorts.

[745] I'm 6 '4, so that's a, I mean, that's.

[746] Big footprint.

[747] That's a big footprint in Lycra.

[748] Yeah.

[749] And then a lot of Lycra.

[750] It was summer.

[751] It was hot.

[752] I mean, it was orange can.

[753] It was hot.

[754] And I, and I loved that Mimes always wore turtlenecks.

[755] Sure, sort of their signature.

[756] It's the kind of their thing, right?

[757] And so I had, I had a black turtleneck, black shorts with a gold raising stripe up my fad -ass eyes.

[758] And then I would, to accentuate my hands, I'd pull my, I'd pull my sleeves up real high because it kind of made me look buff.

[759] Okay, sure.

[760] Because it kind of like puffed out here and it kind of hung off my chest.

[761] And then my, I looked skinny.

[762] in the tight lique and then I would apply my own makeup so let's just real quick sophomore year in high school you're applying pancake white sure the little lips the little red lips oh red lips yeah yeah and then like you know you're adding a lot to eyeliner because I thought the eyeliner really accentuated made the eyes pop yeah yeah yeah that's the only thing you can communicate with right that's all you have no words and then so the church had a fair and they didn't know it nobody invited me to show up.

[763] Nobody invited.

[764] You know, it's like, all right, we got the balloon guy check.

[765] We got the marching band check.

[766] probably a dunk tank.

[767] you know, it's like everyone's there to celebrate.

[768] fair.

[769] Celebrate Christ.

[770] And I took it upon myself to donate my services.

[771] As a mime.

[772] As Tam in the name of Christ to set up at my church and do mime.

[773] And then I had, Like, I had a boom box.

[774] So I'd set up my boom box and then I did my mine routine uninvited.

[775] How long was the routine?

[776] It was pretty good.

[777] I did like a, I stand by the routine.

[778] I stand by the routine.

[779] I once saw, it's a complete, I ripped off somebody's other routine.

[780] I mean, I ripped off another routine.

[781] But I would commit suicide multiple ways doing mine.

[782] So I'd run the sword through and then I would, oh, okay.

[783] You know, and I'd pull out my intestines.

[784] and hang myself with my intestines.

[785] In the name of Christ, too.

[786] Wow.

[787] So there I was uninvited with a boombox doing mine.

[788] At the other end of the fair that nobody really walks by.

[789] And it was populated with a lot of your classmates, as I recall.

[790] So it's all the kids from his high school.

[791] Cute.

[792] Like everyone's popular.

[793] It was very popular to be at the church.

[794] Right.

[795] And also, look, I went to the church fair in my town.

[796] I didn't even go to the church.

[797] It attracts everyone.

[798] anytime you got corn dogs you're going to show up yeah and so mimes corn dogs and as i remember again i don't know how divulgent you want to get but i remember a part of the story being that you became kind of preoccupied because during some of the mime routines your shirt was coming up a little bit sure your belly was sticking over the lycra sure and there were kids from the school watching and it was it was a little distracting right yeah it's not good oh that story i already liked you a ton But then when I heard that story in the makeup trailer, I just thought, I'll fall on a sword for this guy.

[799] What a beautiful beginning.

[800] Did you, did you take a class or you just?

[801] No, no, no. Oh, that was self -taught.

[802] Self -taught mine.

[803] Yeah, it was something that, Tam the Man at Mime.

[804] I don't know, look, I do think that there was that moment.

[805] I look back on a now, right?

[806] And I love the fact that I was a kid 100 % committed.

[807] You know what I mean?

[808] Like you're a kid.

[809] This has no fear.

[810] Like, and I will say that about social media.

[811] My kids would never do that now because they're terrified that somebody's going to.

[812] Well, there'll be a record of it.

[813] If it's a misfire, not only like, let's assume best case scenario, at least 15 kids saw the Tam routine.

[814] For sure.

[815] Then talked about it the next day in science class or whatever on Monday.

[816] For sure.

[817] But they couldn't pull up a video of you.

[818] Yeah.

[819] And it's not going forward.

[820] Yes.

[821] Because that's the kind of thing that you could destroy a kid.

[822] Yeah, it's kind of limited risk, even though it's very ballsy.

[823] I still think it's one of the more ballsy.

[824] But isn't it funny?

[825] Because now that you have kids, like, if my son was, I saw him just before he left the house and he was in the turtleneck and the lycra and the whole thing and I knew he was Tam and he was going to go to where all of his classmates are going to be, I pray, I pray I would say to myself, this kid loves it, let him, let him go.

[826] I would want to, it would be so hard for me not to be protective and go.

[827] Listen, Matt, I'm, Tam.

[828] I know you can't talk back.

[829] I know you can only hear me. Blink if I'm getting through to you.

[830] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[831] If you dare.

[832] It would be hard for me not to try to protect you from potential embarrassment, you know?

[833] Yeah, yeah.

[834] But I do think that, look, my parents were never around.

[835] They weren't, okay.

[836] Never.

[837] Not like that.

[838] I mean.

[839] Not bad parents.

[840] Just they were busy.

[841] they were working for things yeah they were working and they started their own business and I do think that part of the problem with our kids these days I mean I love my kids I have three kids 16 13 and 10 they never get bored like part of you doing mimes because you're bored I mean you just you don't know what you know you figure things out you get more creative you're more engaged you take away you take away these iPads you take away these things and all of a know the amazing things come out when you just let them wander dude even me uh last year chris and i went away for like a night and i like through a heavy sales pitch i'm like let's not use let's leave our phones in the car when we get there sure my sister can call the hotel if there's a problem with the kids and i didn't have my phone for i want to say 36 hours and all of a sudden i was like i want to draw a picture like i haven't wanted to draw a picture in 20 years sure but yeah i was fucking bored and I wanted to do something with my hands.

[842] And I'm like, I'm going to draw some pictures.

[843] Right.

[844] And I just thought, oh yeah, that's taking up all that.

[845] My natural inclination to save off boredom.

[846] They say like, I was reading something that it's like, if you spend two hours like just on social media, right, like a day, the end of the year, that's a month of your life.

[847] And two hours, you know, you do a half hour of the morning.

[848] You do half hour while you're pooping.

[849] You do a half hour after dinner.

[850] 40 for me on the can.

[851] Easy, right?

[852] And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, my God.

[853] That's a month of your life.

[854] That is, yeah, that's a little troubling.

[855] That's brutal.

[856] But when you have kids, I guess my singular wish for them is that they would just catch fire for anything.

[857] I don't even care what it is.

[858] I would just love to see the spark of passion enter their lives and watch them pursue it.

[859] Sure.

[860] So part of me is like, it would be so fun to have a kid like you who is just, just weirdly in his room learning a mime routine and putting on eyeliner and stuff.

[861] It's so bizarre, but you'd have to recognize, oh, my God, this kid has a passion.

[862] There's no doubt.

[863] Like my kid, my mom and dad, to their credit, were like, you're good.

[864] You're not a great actor, you know, you're not, this is not, I don't ever want to see, you know, Lecombered Angel with you in it again, but, you know, they would support me. And there's a thing where at some point where I'd played soccer my whole life and I was a pretty good goalie, and it was before I hit puberty and grew.

[865] But they're like, in high school, I left a sport that I was like, you know, proficient math.

[866] And that's a game changer.

[867] Like you're in high school sports.

[868] And I said, you know, look, I'm doing theater.

[869] I'm going to keep doing it.

[870] And after, you know, I didn't go to college.

[871] I went to college for a year.

[872] I had 19 units of theater arts and like two units of math and I failed math and I got A's and everything else.

[873] And I finally looked at my mom and dad.

[874] I'm like, look, this is all I've ever done.

[875] It's all I've ever been good at.

[876] I'm going to go try it.

[877] And if it sucks, I'll come back.

[878] And to me, like, I always thought I'd be a kid doing Mano La Mancha in Placentia.

[879] I mean, you know, somewhere in the world doing like regional theater.

[880] I never thought I would end up making a movie, let alone, you know, had a 30 -year career.

[881] So it's that thing where, look, whatever your kid's after, the more you can pat a kid who's lost on the ass and say you're doing a great job.

[882] I think it's super powerful.

[883] So scream is you're doing fine.

[884] You're making a living.

[885] You don't have to wait tables.

[886] Then you get screaming.

[887] You're how old 24?

[888] 25.

[889] 25 or 26?

[890] Which is funny because from my perspective at the time you've always been five years older than me. So you were very much a man and you that was a role someone should occupy like you were a grown up.

[891] I was 20 when you did that.

[892] Right.

[893] But of course, now in hindsight in retrospect you were 25 sure that's bonkers when I imagine giving 25 year old dachs any level of success like that I would be frightened for both of us right so you're 25 that movie comes out it's just gigantic right my memory is correct right yeah sometimes your memory's wrong yeah yeah yeah yeah shank was a financial disaster who blows my yes I didn't know that that's crazy but the screen was gigantic right no the funny thing is that scream I saw West Craven and Marian, like, then weekend it came out and he said, hey, we're going to have a celebratory dinner.

[894] And we had made like 10 million bucks.

[895] I mean, we came out on Christmas Day.

[896] Oh, wow.

[897] And counterprogramming, does they call it?

[898] That's how they sort of started with it.

[899] Oh, really?

[900] And they were like, we're having a celebratory dinner.

[901] I'm like, and this is before internet, so you don't have access to box offices.

[902] Like, you would call in a phone number.

[903] Yeah.

[904] And they would have a recording of box office.

[905] which is so crazy um but he was like yeah we're we're gonna have a celebratory dinner and we had this dinner and he said we're a huge hit i'm like we're not a huge hit yeah and he said he said that every um exit poll that they had was the highest sort of rated exit poll and they could sort of project that out to be this monster hit and sure enough a month later you know it's still making the same amount of money probably yeah and crushing i mean it just started crushing it ever for like four six weeks it increased box office and i don't even know if that i like to wish that there was room in the marketplace today for that to happen but i don't feel like that can happen now well certainly nobody makes i mean that movie was such a risk at the time i mean west craven had not had a success in a long time.

[906] Uh -huh.

[907] It was in an era where people were not looking to cross -promote and hit every demographic.

[908] So the idea that Courtney Cox and Nev Campbell that were both television stars would star in a movie was sort of like that's counterintuitive at the time.

[909] Yeah, so you're doing a movie with a guy that hasn't made a good movie with women that were from a television show and you're like, the script's good.

[910] Like when you, I read the script, I distinctly remember reading the script in this backhouse.

[911] I just come to LA I was staying at somebody's back house and I started to read it and I was like this is terrifying I literally the opening sequence where spoiler alert there's got to be a window on spoiler alerts you haven't caught it 20 years fuck you right it's your fault but you know she gets killed I'm like oh my God and I put it down that was kind of a genius move too which which I feel like was a paradigm breaker that hadn't been they did it masterfully in in Hurt Locker.

[912] You saw Hurt Locker?

[913] Yeah.

[914] Because the movie starts out with Guy Pearce, right?

[915] He's in the, or is he coming halfway through?

[916] The movie only had two stars in it and they killed both of them right away.

[917] Ray Fines and I believe in the very beginning, Guy Pearce was the first guy in the Hurt Locker and you're like, oh, I know Guy Pearce.

[918] I've seen him in a bunch of movies.

[919] This guy's the lead of the movie and they fucking blow him up.

[920] It's like a genius use of recognizable talent.

[921] And you kill him and you go, oh, the stakes of this movie are real.

[922] They'll kill anyone because they just killed a star.

[923] Sure.

[924] It's kind of genius.

[925] But it started there, I feel like.

[926] Yeah.

[927] Well, I mean, it definitely was, at the time, I was like, this is incredible.

[928] And she shot that whole first week.

[929] And she was on all the posters.

[930] Remember, the image is her on the poster.

[931] Do you know any of the behind the scenes, how they got?

[932] I mean, what a hard get that is to, to get to approach, she was a big star then to go, hey, we're going to kill you in the first five minutes.

[933] Do you want to end?

[934] I think that she was all, I think she was game.

[935] Okay.

[936] They killed her and then, yeah, it was...

[937] You were reading the script and you put it down and you're like, Terrified.

[938] And then what, yeah, but the funny thing about that movie is that that movie blew up.

[939] And I wasn't really, you know, I was like a outside of your perspective.

[940] I mean, like, I was a guy from Scream, which was a defining moment.

[941] But that movie, Neff Campbell became an overnight huge.

[942] She became a monster.

[943] Did you guys meet on the set of them?

[944] Yeah.

[945] Courtney was a big star.

[946] You know, there's so many people like, you know, my name isn't on the poster anywhere.

[947] It wasn't like it was my movie.

[948] So everyone's like, oh my God, scream change your life.

[949] I'm like, it didn't.

[950] Actually, it didn't.

[951] Like, I was still doing small parts and small movies and small movies and getting scale 10.

[952] In fact, at some point, I had, you know, I found my wife and we were getting married and I didn't have a job and I didn't have, you know, I wasn't making ends meet.

[953] And there's a movie called Summer Catch that I did.

[954] Freddie Prince Jr. And Freddie and I had just done like three movies back to back to back.

[955] And I'm like, dude, I need a movie so bad.

[956] I need you to call this director and put in the work.

[957] That's the baseball movie.

[958] Yeah, yeah.

[959] I think I also watch that one after without a paddle.

[960] Yeah.

[961] Support.

[962] Yeah.

[963] So good.

[964] You're so dear.

[965] It's confusing, right?

[966] It's like, no. Am I a dick?

[967] Am I nice?

[968] But you weren't after after squire?

[969] Wow, because yeah, my perspective of this scenario is so different.

[970] After Scream, you didn't just get offered a bazillion things.

[971] Really?

[972] I've never been offered a bazillion things.

[973] Really?

[974] Even, I mean, in the, in Scooby -Doo, I sat down, after Scooby -Doo, I sat down with James Gunn, Director of Guardians of the Galaxy.

[975] And we pitched Plastic Man to the studio as like a sort of like, as a good way of interest.

[976] Yeah.

[977] They didn't go.

[978] You were ahead of your time.

[979] I tell that story all the time.

[980] You and I with Bart Crub.

[981] Bart crossing the front in front of us.

[982] Remember that?

[983] And he just stopped.

[984] And he stopped and then bought it.

[985] And you're like, and remember the guy was like, don't Bart, no, Bart. You're like, boys don't run.

[986] And I'm like, what the fuck are we supposed to do?

[987] As Bart is like preparing to attack.

[988] He target locked us.

[989] Yeah.

[990] And those guys had the little bats and they were running with the bats in their hand.

[991] And so all the signals I was receiving is like, we're about to get killed.

[992] This is really bad.

[993] Yeah.

[994] Yes.

[995] He's got the train gun.

[996] up remember they had a guy with a train gun yes and the story i always tell uh from that is that the very first scene that any of us had with bart was you and set facing bart and me with my back turned to bart oh yeah he raised up behind you yes but before that ever happened i don't know if you remember this but bart just up and out of nowhere tore apart the fake tree and you guys can see it and i couldn't and bart's behind me a two feet behind me and all of a sudden your guys's eyes get really wide and barges like just fucking gouging that fake tree and just tore it to shreds.

[997] He didn't remember he was on it was on whipped cream and coffee coffee and donuts they had a big pan of donuts but also they told us right when we got there like the three things you couldn't do is A you couldn't look him in the eyes, B you can't act afraid around him and B never run those were the three rules and the very first scene is me turning around looking him in the guys screaming at the top of my line and then take off running I'm like what do you this good were they fucking with us were those really the three rules because I have to break all three of them and remember I kept going like how does bart know I'm not actually scared and screaming and running like is he that good of a detector of good or bad acting I remember when we at some point they had remember they had a guy come in and bless the river they had right we went to the yeah went to work on the wire recie oh that's yeah I wasn't that was good Good.

[998] Do you remember the dinner we had for Bert Reynolds?

[999] The night he showed up?

[1000] Yeah.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] That was the best.

[1003] So great.

[1004] You were so happy.

[1005] I've never seen anyone so happy to meet anyone in my whole life.

[1006] I don't think to this day.

[1007] Oh, he's my number one.

[1008] Oh, yeah.

[1009] I still am just trying to be Bert Reynolds.

[1010] I mean, that ship is sailed, but that's who I was trying to be.

[1011] I wanted to peel out in cars and make out with Saly Field and then make a bunch of money.

[1012] He's the best.

[1013] Remember how humble he was?

[1014] He was so humble.

[1015] Best storyteller I've ever to this day heard.

[1016] Do you remember, Remember this story he told about Hal Needham, who is the most legendary stuntman ever to live, and he directed all those movies, Smoking the Bandit, Hooper.

[1017] Sharky's Machine.

[1018] I think Bert might have directed Sharkey's Machine.

[1019] But yes, he directed Gator, a bunch of, just a legendary dude.

[1020] They were roommates at Bert's height of his superpowers.

[1021] Biggest star in the world.

[1022] And these two knuckleheads lived together.

[1023] And Hal Needham drove a Ferrari around, whatever.

[1024] And he said that he never saw Hal ever hurt.

[1025] He would never acknowledge he's hurt.

[1026] And he came home one day from work and he said to Bert, their roommates, you got to take me to the hospital.

[1027] And Bert's like, okay, what's going on?

[1028] He goes, I broke my back.

[1029] And Bert goes, well, you couldn't have broke your back.

[1030] He wouldn't have been able to walk in here.

[1031] And he was like, Bert, I fucking broke my back.

[1032] Take me to the doctor right now.

[1033] So Bert takes him to the Santa Monica Hospital.

[1034] This is all Bert's story, not mine.

[1035] Hal starts flirting with the nurse.

[1036] And he and the nurse have something going.

[1037] You know, Hal's asking for her phone number.

[1038] the doctor comes in, and per Burt's assessment, the doctor and the nurse had a thing going on.

[1039] So the doctor did not like Hal Needham flirting with the nurse.

[1040] And so the doctor at one point said after the examination, you have broken your back and you have a bunch of fluid in your lungs.

[1041] And I've got to drain the fluid out of your lungs right now.

[1042] So you need to put your hands up against the wall.

[1043] He said he got this huge needle out.

[1044] He said, you may pass out when I do this.

[1045] It's happened.

[1046] So he had the nurse hold Hal Needham's legs.

[1047] And Hal Needham was wearing the skirt you wear when you're at the hospital, the gown.

[1048] So the woman's under him holding his legs.

[1049] The doctors got this huge needle.

[1050] He plunges it into Hal's back and Hal shits all over the nurse.

[1051] Diary is all over the, do you remember that story?

[1052] Of all the things that I thought were coming in that story.

[1053] The very last thing I thought was that the punchline was how shit on the nurse he was just hitting on.

[1054] I was like, what, that story?

[1055] I think I remember having the moment where I was like, who cares if this story's real?

[1056] It's what a story.

[1057] He said all over.

[1058] He told that at the first dinner that we all had.

[1059] That's hilarious.

[1060] I just want to hear what I want to hear between screaming without a paddle.

[1061] You did many screams, right?

[1062] No, three.

[1063] Oh, because you got killed.

[1064] I got killed.

[1065] I was supposed to do scream three.

[1066] And then they, the month before we started to shoot, Columbine High School happened.

[1067] Ooh.

[1068] And the idea was that I was still alive, revealed in like the last act of the movie.

[1069] And I was running high school killers from jail.

[1070] Oh.

[1071] And so when that happened, they changed that.

[1072] This is not a good time to do this storyline.

[1073] We're going to change this.

[1074] Wow.

[1075] Oh, God.

[1076] Wow.

[1077] So, yeah, my memory is completely wrong.

[1078] I felt like you were in a couple of those.

[1079] No, just one.

[1080] And then Scooby -Doo.

[1081] So you missed the big pay days.

[1082] All of them.

[1083] Not all of them.

[1084] I mean, Scooby -Doo is, Scooby -Doo is -No, I mean on the screens because they did three or four of them.

[1085] No, yeah, for sure.

[1086] Yeah, and they sure went up incrementally over here.

[1087] Oh, they got, they did.

[1088] What year did you do Scooby -Doo?

[1089] She, the day, it came out, Scooby -D -1 came out the day my daughter was born.

[1090] Oh.

[1091] So, 2002.

[1092] And she brought a huge present with her.

[1093] And the head of the studio called him said, congratulations.

[1094] Congratulations.

[1095] I'm like, yeah, she's beautiful.

[1096] We just greenlit Scooby -Doo, too.

[1097] I'm like, yes.

[1098] Oh, wow.

[1099] But it's funny.

[1100] So they were going to do, they were going to do Scooby -Doo 3.

[1101] And I was so, I used to be so jealous.

[1102] I used to be really, I used to be really competitive.

[1103] Uh -huh.

[1104] And I still am competitive, but I used to get really jealous.

[1105] I used to get really worked up.

[1106] And Scooby -Doo came and Freddie Prince Jr. made a lot of money.

[1107] Uh -huh.

[1108] And I was clear that I was like, you know, a big part of the success of Scooby -Doo.

[1109] And I was like, I want to get paid ever Freddie Prince Chenegates because they were, at that time, they were trying to do Scooby -Doo three.

[1110] They wanted to do both.

[1111] They wanted to pre -negotiate three because they were going to do trilogy.

[1112] And they would not come up to his number.

[1113] And I was like, you know what?

[1114] I'm walking.

[1115] Ah.

[1116] And my agent, God bless him.

[1117] And my manager, God bless her.

[1118] And my lawyer, God bless him, we're like, you're like literally like, okay, okay, bye.

[1119] And my lawyer, Matt Johnson called me up right after I hung up the phone with all my team.

[1120] And he's like, I'm not going to let you do that on behalf of your family.

[1121] Because it was a lot of money.

[1122] And he's like, you don't know what's going to happen for three.

[1123] And you don't know what it's going to go.

[1124] And that's not happening.

[1125] I'm like, but it's bullshit.

[1126] I was so upset.

[1127] That I wasn't getting what he was getting.

[1128] Yes.

[1129] And it's the, the cancer we all have.

[1130] It's so horrible.

[1131] Had you gone back?

[1132] time and tap Tam on the shoulder and said there's going to be a moment where you're going to get over let's just say it was two million dollars to go do a funny voice in a movie Tam would have fucking shit his like he wouldn't have believed it he wouldn't have believed it no but the second we compare it to something else now it's all everything changes right I'm literally living my damn dreams yes but my ego is very preoccupied with what someone else is making even though you're making well about the poverty life yes so I've done it too.

[1133] It's petulant and it.

[1134] It's so funny because I'll just out myself.

[1135] Here I am in without a paddle.

[1136] It's the biggest break of my life.

[1137] What an honor to be equal parts of a movie with two guys that have been working for 20 years or however many years it had been.

[1138] And even at times, I was like, we're all doing the same thing.

[1139] And these guys are making four times as much as me. This isn't fair.

[1140] Mind you, when I got the movie, I couldn't believe they were paying me why they were going to pay me. I was like, oh, well, I haven't made that much in 10 years combined.

[1141] It's amazing.

[1142] It's amazing.

[1143] Life's great.

[1144] And then I kind of suss out what you guys are making.

[1145] Now all of a sudden, I'm underpaid.

[1146] And it's so stupid.

[1147] Well, look, I will say that I, so I teach you.

[1148] So in this moment in my life where I was like struggling to make it, you know, I had this whole thing where I was having a hard time after without a paddle.

[1149] It wasn't working.

[1150] I didn't work.

[1151] I didn't work.

[1152] Well, I really want to talk about that.

[1153] Yeah.

[1154] Because that to me feels like a humongous.

[1155] injustice that even if I feel like it's a huge injustice I can't imagine what it was like to be inside of that oh yeah and if I feel like if I were you I would have fucking hated my guts your guts yes no but was I jealous yes but I would have been furious no but I wasn't but I don't you liked me enough that yeah and I also like I have no I have no I would never have ill will right but there's a part of me that's like what the what was an injustice because I I was new.

[1156] That was exciting.

[1157] Sure.

[1158] And you were not new, but we were in the same movie.

[1159] You were technically the lead of the movie.

[1160] It was your story.

[1161] It's romantic guy going, yes, for sure.

[1162] You get the girl at the end.

[1163] It's your movie.

[1164] And it was like the first time in my life, I had a movie, and it opened great.

[1165] And we did great.

[1166] Yes.

[1167] And to this day, the most successful thing I've ever been in.

[1168] And literally, you drop off after that.

[1169] Drop off the cliff.

[1170] It's so crazy.

[1171] I'm telling you from the outside.

[1172] It was completely unfair.

[1173] That still to me has never made a lick of sense.

[1174] It was weird.

[1175] I don't know.

[1176] I don't know what.

[1177] I don't know why that happened.

[1178] I don't know.

[1179] And I think I'm a nice guy.

[1180] You're super nice.

[1181] Everyone that's worked with you likes working with you.

[1182] I've never like thrown like a tamper tantra.

[1183] I'm like I'm not a petulant.

[1184] I don't know.

[1185] It was weird.

[1186] It was like a weird.

[1187] It was a very clear fall from grace.

[1188] Because I have to imagine if if I'm you, the movie does great.

[1189] I'm the lead of it.

[1190] Here we go.

[1191] here come the scripts here we go yeah like here we're off and running why wouldn't it be off and running so i also think though that the industry was a tiny bit more fickle then sure than it is now for sure look in the back of my mind i'm like look i've always made i've always been successful quote unquote i've always found jobs i've always worked i've always made enough money to feed my kids at the time there were no kids but you know i'd done well in this moment at the height and i'd gone like wicker park scooby -doo i mean i'd gone like four movies in a row that ended in without a paddle i'm like i'm gonna take time off cut to cut to you know three years later i hadn't and not really worked right and this moment came along in my life where i was like so i and i've i've talked about this before but you know at this moment where i wasn't working we were living off of the money i'd made on scooby and we were spending it fast because i'm like well i'm gonna work and we're gonna make a big movie and cut to not making a big movie not working and having kids and sort of like not having any fear of buying anything right buying new cribs or whatever it was and hubris like this real sense of like i don't know like that i had earned my place and that it would come back in this sense of security so long story even longer somebody called me up and by the way the whole time, I'm calling my agent and my manager.

[1192] What's going on?

[1193] What's going on?

[1194] What's going on?

[1195] What's going on?

[1196] What's going on?

[1197] I'm calling three times, four times a day saying, hey, did you guys follow up on?

[1198] What about this thing in the trades?

[1199] Like, I am on it.

[1200] Jonzi panicking and not having the capacity to be like, what am I doing?

[1201] And I have nothing else in my life.

[1202] And my manager said, my lawyer, my agent said, why don't you go out and volunteer to help people?

[1203] I'm like, whatever.

[1204] How about you give me a fucking job?

[1205] I will volunteer when I have a job.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] And so.

[1208] I will volunteer when I have a job.

[1209] When I'm too busy.

[1210] When I can't.

[1211] Yes.

[1212] I will volunteer.

[1213] So I go and I get an offer.

[1214] I get a call to see if I'd be interested in dancing with the stars, sort of at the height of dancing with the stars.

[1215] Not an offer to do it, but like a like sort of like what do you be interested?

[1216] Taking your temperature.

[1217] Yeah.

[1218] And my agent calls me. and my, my manager calls me and says, we kind of think you should consider it.

[1219] And this is right after my father -in -law said, you know, if you sell pharmaceuticals, you'll make a lot of money because we didn't have any, we were struggling.

[1220] And he's like, son, you're struggling, go get a job.

[1221] And in the back of my mind, I've made 30 movies.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] Like, I'm not going to, am I going to go sell pharmaceuticals?

[1224] I don't want to do that.

[1225] Am I going to take Dancing with the Stars?

[1226] And because in my life, look, as a kid, my goal has always been I want to win an academy award I want to win an Emmy and a Tony crazy I know but like as a kid that was a motivating factor sure and I'm looking at my life and I'm looking at this moment and the stock markets crashed like we're in the middle of like the whole world is falling apart yeah this moment I was like my entire life is built on my own ego yeah my entire life is I feel like I think I owe I'm owed something I feel like I'm a bigger star than I actually am.

[1227] I feel like this is all bullshit.

[1228] And I'm struggling and I can't get a pilot and I'm broke and I have to change it.

[1229] And instead of going and taking another crap movie, I literally said in my wife is we have to change our life.

[1230] She being the godsend that she is.

[1231] She's like, I totally agree.

[1232] We sold our house.

[1233] We got rid of our fast cars.

[1234] And we changed how we lived our life.

[1235] and just was like, I'm going back and I'm going to start teaching acting.

[1236] Uh -huh.

[1237] I will live on that.

[1238] Well, let me just also add.

[1239] You're painting a certain picture of yourself, which is, of course, accurate on one hand.

[1240] But then on the other hand, you also had this, always this crazy love for acting in theater.

[1241] And you even at the height of that mania, maybe, would have readings at your house all the time?

[1242] Sure.

[1243] You love acting.

[1244] You love actors.

[1245] You love reading stuff.

[1246] You love performing.

[1247] So I will just add into this recipe It's not like you had been Had turned your back on the thing that you loved Or that you had, you know Became only interested in the monetizing of all that Like you were at your core still I was still Tam Yeah you were still Tam You have a pure pure love for it Yes Which in a time of that identity crisis It would be hard for me to recognize that But I can see where you should go like Oh forget all.

[1248] all this.

[1249] I love this thing.

[1250] How do I actively do this thing?

[1251] Whether it's in a teaching capacity, being in plays at places that I'm not proud of the theater, but whatever, I still have this fire in me for this thing.

[1252] Get refocused on that.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] And the thing that's like, how do I tell my kids, how do I parent my kids to chase dreams if I'm going to go into dancing with stars and completely disavow my celebrity means nothing.

[1255] I mean, literally going back to, I'd rather do an incredible part and make no money.

[1256] Yes.

[1257] Then, you know, and so.

[1258] But I wouldn't have even imagined that the dancing with the star's appeal was the moment in in the spotlight as much as just money.

[1259] I'm sure they offer a good amount of money to do relatively short thing.

[1260] That would have been.

[1261] And you're like, and there's an idea of like, oh, you're still alive.

[1262] And there is that thing.

[1263] Like, I was a kid that came up.

[1264] And I do think that Scooby -Doo was this weird moment where I was 32 years old and 34 years old playing a teenager.

[1265] And there was that moment of like, you know, I looked a little like a crackhead.

[1266] And people are like, well, we don't really need, you know, the thing of like that transition to being a, you know, a kid into a man was really tough for me. And, you know, and I will say that that moment, this moment of definition sort of changed my life.

[1267] I went back to teach.

[1268] I went back to class.

[1269] So I'm like taking, I'm like back in acting class.

[1270] And it was awesome.

[1271] And then out of that came the descendants, which was.

[1272] a movie I did with George Clooney.

[1273] Uh -huh.

[1274] Which.

[1275] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1276] I had bumped into you right after you shot that.

[1277] Oh, yeah.

[1278] Again, I remember being so excited that you were in that movie.

[1279] Yeah, yeah.

[1280] And then I want to say you were asked to jog down the beach like 35 times, the exact same way.

[1281] And it's hilarious that I, in that moment, for some reason, it's because I just had a kid, I think, I'd put on like all this way.

[1282] So I am, so the story goes like this.

[1283] I get this call on Wednesday saying, hey, I get a call on Thursday.

[1284] saying you want to go in tomorrow and meet Alexander Payne for a new George Clinton movie.

[1285] I'm like, yes.

[1286] I'm not working.

[1287] I'll meet him in Nebraska.

[1288] I've sold my house.

[1289] Like we're like changing your life.

[1290] Yes, of course I want to do that.

[1291] And so I go in and I have this moment where I can either, I just started doing the voice of, I'm the voice of Shaggy.

[1292] I've been the voice of Shaggy for the last 15 years.

[1293] Like in the cartoons.

[1294] 14 years.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] But anyway, so there's a moment where I was just done my first movie for Warner Brothers, like the video, the DVD.

[1297] And I had, because of my kids had done great at school and they were little.

[1298] I was going to take them to go see this, you know, they were screening at Warner's.

[1299] Uh -huh.

[1300] So it was a big deal.

[1301] We bought the new outfits and we're, like, it's a lot screening.

[1302] It's not that big of a deal.

[1303] But we had made a big deal out of it because of grades.

[1304] So I had this moment like it was at six o 'clock on a Friday.

[1305] And they want to see me a five o 'clock in Santa Monica.

[1306] So undoable.

[1307] Undoable.

[1308] Unless you have a helicopter.

[1309] So I call up and I was like, hey, just tell them I'm, I'd like to come in earlier, right?

[1310] We'll just change the time.

[1311] And so they call me back.

[1312] They can't do it.

[1313] You have to go in at 5 o 'clock.

[1314] It's just the way it's going to be.

[1315] I'm like, oh, gosh.

[1316] So I'm going to try to get there early.

[1317] Because of traffic, it takes me forever from Pasadena, I get to Santa Monica.

[1318] I show up at 5 o 'clock.

[1319] So I'm sitting in my car, and I have this moment.

[1320] I can, right now, go upstairs and get a part.

[1321] I'm never going to get it.

[1322] I play George Clooney's wife's lover.

[1323] Yes.

[1324] Right?

[1325] So I'm the guy that George Clooney's wife is doing.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] I'm not, I'm not giving that job.

[1328] You're the guy on good girls.

[1329] Yeah, yeah.

[1330] This is why you deserve this.

[1331] Yes.

[1332] I'm like when I'm like I'm going to get but like who is going into this thing you are never going like no George Clooney's gal never never yeah I'm like there's no effing way but I want this job I want the opportunity to go work in front of Alexander Payne so it's five o 'clock if I leave that moment I can get them to hold the movie for a half hour I can probably get there so I'm literally sitting in Santa Monica I'm like god dang it so I pick up the phone to call my agent I'm like hey I'm going to bail out of this audition just reschedule it for next week And she's like, you can't do that.

[1333] You just have to go inside and go see what happens.

[1334] This is my agent's assistant.

[1335] My agent's not available.

[1336] I'm like, oh, gosh.

[1337] So I go upstairs.

[1338] She's negotiating a Freddie Prince Jr. She's like, I don't know where she is.

[1339] But she is.

[1340] So I walk in this room and there's like seven Adonis's.

[1341] There's like seven beautiful men.

[1342] Like they're like, I don't know them.

[1343] They're nobody that.

[1344] But that dude's gorgeous.

[1345] That dude has abs.

[1346] That dude has the chin of a god.

[1347] I'm never getting this job.

[1348] So I literally turn.

[1349] on my heels.

[1350] I'm like, I'm walking out.

[1351] And so I'm literally pick up the phone.

[1352] I'm just going to I'm going to bet that they're going to reschedule at some point.

[1353] And she says to me, Matt, you can't leave.

[1354] They didn't want to see you.

[1355] They didn't want you to audition.

[1356] We had somebody else that was scheduled there that couldn't make it.

[1357] So we are going to slam you in.

[1358] Oh, wow.

[1359] So it's either now or never.

[1360] You're never getting back in that room.

[1361] Oh, wow.

[1362] So I literally stop on my tracks.

[1363] I'm like, well, what a moment for your ego, by the way.

[1364] Well, right before you go audition, too.

[1365] They don't want you.

[1366] They hate you.

[1367] They're not interested at all.

[1368] They'd rather drive past you if you were on fire on the side of the road.

[1369] Anyone but you.

[1370] And this whole room of like, God, these dudes are gorgeous.

[1371] So I walk in, so I say to the handsome clan, I'm like, guys, I have my kid.

[1372] I'm taking him to a movie.

[1373] Do you mind if I slip in?

[1374] And so they all say yes.

[1375] Oh, that's nice.

[1376] So I walk in the road.

[1377] So I walk in the room and I said Alexander Payne.

[1378] I'm like, look, I can't.

[1379] I'm super charming.

[1380] I promise you.

[1381] I'm nice.

[1382] Can we just audition so I can take my kids to this movie thing in the valley?

[1383] If I, if you don't mind and he's like, yes, go ahead.

[1384] And so I auditioned and, you know, I worked on it really hard.

[1385] I wanted to be good.

[1386] And he said, that's the best audition I've ever seen.

[1387] No. I swear to God.

[1388] Oh my God.

[1389] I mean, something akin to that.

[1390] Yeah, yeah.

[1391] That was incredible.

[1392] or whatever.

[1393] And I was like, yeah, too bad.

[1394] I'm never getting this fucking job.

[1395] And he's like, and he was like, why would you say that?

[1396] I'm like, look at my face.

[1397] Dude, I am not the guy stealing Clooney's wife.

[1398] Ever.

[1399] And the casting director was like, why don't you get out of the room and go take your kids?

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] And I did.

[1402] And like six months later, I got a phone call on.

[1403] Wait.

[1404] Six months?

[1405] Oh, my God.

[1406] He takes forever to cast.

[1407] Six months later.

[1408] So, of course, in your memory.

[1409] mind you did not give that no of course not why would i ever and at some point like a month in you i got word back that i was being highly considered i'm like i'm never giving this job and now it's six months later and his whole thing is he's he's really interesting he takes forever to cast he'll see everyone he wants to be in the room he wants to see them work he takes a lot of different takes so he's a lot is a whole palette to cut from and he takes forever to cut oh really he'll edit as long as he wants.

[1410] Oh, wow.

[1411] And he has the kind of power and he sort of crafts the movie he wants out of all these options.

[1412] But back to the beach, he did make you run down the beach a couple hundred times?

[1413] Yeah, yeah.

[1414] Or was it down the street?

[1415] No, he was down the beach.

[1416] Who's down the beach?

[1417] And you weren't at your best cardiovascular training.

[1418] I was so heavy.

[1419] I thought my answer for getting a George Clooney's wife's lover movie that I would put on like 20 pounds.

[1420] I don't know what I was doing.

[1421] Well, you almost started thinking to yourself, we need an explanation.

[1422] So I'm so opposite from him.

[1423] That's why she was attracted to me. By the way, you're 20 times better looking than you think you are.

[1424] But I think that's true for all of us.

[1425] But yes.

[1426] Against Clooney, you're like, why is this?

[1427] I mean, for my money, first of all, I've met him as well.

[1428] He's a lovely guy.

[1429] He's very gregarious.

[1430] Charming.

[1431] But for my money, I'm at a bar.

[1432] I talked to both of you.

[1433] I'm definitely going home with you.

[1434] No. 100%.

[1435] And I bet a lot of women feel that way.

[1436] No way.

[1437] 100%.

[1438] Monica.

[1439] Will you back me up on this?

[1440] Put yourself at the bar.

[1441] The problem is I don't know.

[1442] No, I don't know anything about his personality.

[1443] You have a tremendous personality.

[1444] Yeah, you really do.

[1445] Yeah, it's real sparkly.

[1446] This is my favorite.

[1447] I think you look.

[1448] Here's what I think.

[1449] If I'm a woman, I look at you and I look at Clooney, I look at you and I go, this is going to be a party.

[1450] This is going to be a fun life.

[1451] I look at Clooney, I'm like, he's the alpha of the group.

[1452] It means I have high status too.

[1453] and I got to keep my shit tight and I'm going to be afraid I'm losing them all the time Yeah, I'm going back to party time That's probably true, yeah Like one seems really fun and one just seems like status To me I mean look, your life as a single man You were fine You did unbelievably well And that was because you're tall Yeah And super funny I do think that funny and charm It's an aphrodisi For women for sure Yes And you're like confident in that space Yeah Yeah, yeah.

[1454] I was relatively confident in that space.

[1455] It's good.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] Okay, so at any point, so clearly you go into that job, you're so grateful to have it.

[1458] There's no question, right?

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] And yet on the 25th time jogging down the beach, forget about the training, like just your own, the wall you're hitting.

[1461] Thank God I put on shoes.

[1462] They're like, do you want shoes or no shoes?

[1463] I'm like shoes.

[1464] And I thought I was super heavy, so super insecure.

[1465] Like, what is he trying to make me skinny in the moment?

[1466] I'm not going to be skinny.

[1467] I didn't have breakfast.

[1468] It happens.

[1469] Enough takes.

[1470] You'll be down to 160.

[1471] There was a moment where I have this moment of Clooney where I say, I love my wife.

[1472] And every single time I ever worked on it, I said, I love my wife.

[1473] And I fuck, my whole body lights up with like an energy that's like electric.

[1474] Yeah, which is probably your real feelings.

[1475] 100%.

[1476] 100%.

[1477] And every time it comes out of my mouth, I literally am like trying to hold it together.

[1478] Which I thought would have really served the scene.

[1479] Yeah.

[1480] So I get there that day.

[1481] feel nothing.

[1482] I might take one, take two, three, and he does a lot of takes, and I'm like, I've got nothing going on.

[1483] So I get to my close -up, and we've now been on the scene for a long time.

[1484] And I like George a lot.

[1485] He's great, but it's not like, you know, we're not sitting, it's like the first day we've worked together.

[1486] We're not talking, you know, I'm not going to, I'm like, hey, I'm going to, this is what I'm going to try.

[1487] Yeah, yeah.

[1488] But in this moment, I did this scene where I was like, you know, and I start to go off improv because I want to light myself up.

[1489] Sure.

[1490] And then bring it maybe even back.

[1491] back yes like here's my belief and then come back yeah you know who i love i love my daughter allison i love my god what the fuck are you doing oh god that was like oh yes what are you doing one of those words who the fuck what are you doing are these people and literally who do these people and literally he's like big eye staring at me going what are you doing i was trying to i was trying really hard to be acty.

[1492] But you never got rattled.

[1493] You were able to just recognize, oh, this is his process.

[1494] It's not about me. It's about this is just his process.

[1495] And you never took it personal.

[1496] That's awesome.

[1497] Now, do you have a perspective now?

[1498] And I'll just start with my thing.

[1499] So for three years straight, pretty much, I directed.

[1500] I did chips for two years.

[1501] And then I was working on Scooby for a year.

[1502] And I created this identity and this narrative for myself.

[1503] which was, I know what I'm doing the next 10 years.

[1504] It's going to be directing five more movies.

[1505] And this is how my life's going to work.

[1506] And I am now a director, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1507] When Chips comes out and doesn't do well, the hard part for me wasn't, oh, that the movie didn't do well because I still love the movie I made, which is all you can really hope for.

[1508] But it was that I went, oh, fuck, this identity I've been wearing for three years.

[1509] I'm a director.

[1510] This is what I'm doing for the next 10 years, just collapsed.

[1511] And that was the very hardest thing to get past.

[1512] It's like, you're not going to be directing for the next 10 years.

[1513] That's in fact not going to happen.

[1514] Who are you now?

[1515] Right.

[1516] Because I've been wearing this hat for three years.

[1517] I'm a director.

[1518] My wife might be making more money than me and stuff, but I'm not bothered by it because I'm a director.

[1519] Like, it's just this weird identity I had for myself.

[1520] And I think anytime that thing shatters and you've now got to figure out again what your identity is it can often be a blessing for me I think it was a complete blessing because if I had been a director for the next 10 years I'm missing a lot more of my kids lives than I'm currently missing right and it would have been through no fault of my own it's just a very time -consuming job and I now on the other side of it feel very good about everything that happened I'm sitting here talking to you doing something I absolutely love.

[1521] I always end up doing something I love.

[1522] It's all fine.

[1523] And even more proof that my identity should never really probably be my job.

[1524] So having gone through that phase where after without a paddle, you were frustrated as hell.

[1525] You went back to acting.

[1526] Did you zero in an identity that's more stable and maintainable and one you're proud of?

[1527] So first of all, I love that you have the capacity to articulate that because I think that so many times that people listen to our stories or you read the article or you see that hit piece for three minutes on entertainment tonight and you're like it's all bling you look at your life with your wife and people like oh he's got a maid there's no problem it's all good and I think that in this moment that we've you know this this catastrophic moment in my human life there was this moment of humbling right in this moment of what am I as a man and I it's changed my life completely I mean my the least I mean I don't talk to my agents and my managers anymore I'm not I'm on a great show I love my show but I just started Dungeons and Dragons Company with five of my best friends we've been playing for 26 years Oh that's another thing you know we launched in June I just I started this thing where I had this moment where I had I was receiving an award as a philanthropic actor from five acres And as I'm receiving this award I feel like a complete sham You know, I'll tweet or I'll throw it at a party And it's garbage And I was away at this thing called Hatch Which is this collection of people in Montana They're trying to save the world And I had this vision And I literally like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna start a poetry slam For kids living in foster care So I bring in these world class poets and we work and we implement this poetry program for the course of the year and we do the slam poetry uh -huh single greatest thing in my life you know and and we an actual esteemable act which is how you get self -esteem which is how you feel good yeah and you're being in a hit movie actually isn't an esteemable no it's it's awesome it's ego and it's money yeah yeah it's a job yeah and no and it's it's it's so uh it can evaporate because it's not it's not real it's not an actual thing to have a steam about you never have like you never have a guy you never have a pediatrician going when's my next patient coming in where's my I need another patient when's my next patient I need a patient can I have a patient please let me have a patient why doesn't that patient also also if I don't have patients I'm no longer a pediatrician yeah you're a pediatrician yeah but but we'll start feeling like I'm not an actor if I'm not being paid to act so in my so in my life in my teaching like the very first time I taught I came up with this analogy of um the anelope And so this is the dumbest analogy ever, but I use it all the time.

[1528] Our job as artists, which is what you are, whether you were born that way or you have made yourself that way now, is to travel across the Serengeti to die with the other artists.

[1529] My whole goal is to be with the other artists when I die.

[1530] That's a neat goal.

[1531] And what happens is that, you know, you go left and all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I'm going to take the side job and young actors like I'm going to you know you come out of school and you're like I'm a waiter to pay for acting class but then they make you know the manager and then you're a bartender and all of a sudden now you're working four nights a week you haven't been an acting class in six years and you're still calling yourself an actor but you're really a bartender you've gone off the path right you've been eaten by the alligator at the watering hole on the way across the serengeti so our goal is and we all get lost and the only way to make it across I think the serengetti to die with the other artists is to travel as a pact to travel with a bunch of other people that are like you and that's what that night of reading of plays in my house is about.

[1532] It has nothing to do with being a dad or being a, you know, or in this business.

[1533] It's about being surrounded by other people like you.

[1534] Yeah.

[1535] And I think that that for us is a really hard thing to understand because it's so individualized.

[1536] You can sit in your house and be like, why am I not working?

[1537] And you're lost.

[1538] It's not until you get with other people that are like you, that you realize, oh, this is what I'm born to do.

[1539] Do you also find, and it's sad that our families can be a backup plan, but I think it's also very common, which is in that moment of identity crisis for me, what was so nice is like, oh, no, I'm still a dad.

[1540] Like, I take so much pride and pleasure and esteem out of being a dad.

[1541] Sure.

[1542] It's just the greatest for me thing.

[1543] And I think even getting through the Chips experience was so aided by the fact that I had a more primary purpose, which is I got to be a dad.

[1544] Sure.

[1545] And do you find that that too for you is like that kind of the cornerstone of your identity and self -esteem?

[1546] Look, you sir, but you can't leave your self -esteem there.

[1547] either right that's it's there's always why because they leave yeah they leave my plan is for them to stay at home forever i'm the only parent who wants their kids to be fucking losers i don't want them to ever move out of their bedrooms i'll even let like shitty dudes come live there too if it means they stay well the older they get i mean your kids are how old are kids three and five yeah so you're in the kindergarten was last week god bless you yeah i mean i have a 16 year old and a 13 year old and their whole mission is to break up with you right and you're like i literally I'm like, you can't give me attitude.

[1548] I'm in love with you.

[1549] What are you doing?

[1550] Yes, this is what I. What are you doing?

[1551] You know, and my son, he's a soccer player and like, you know, but he's a good soccer player and we share soccer together.

[1552] Uh -huh.

[1553] You know, we'll go to a tournament.

[1554] We'll like sleep in the, you know, we'll sleep in our, in our hotel room and then we'll get up and our breakfast again.

[1555] It's my favorite thing in the world.

[1556] Yeah.

[1557] And I know at some point he's going to take it away from me. He's going to be like, I don't want to do this.

[1558] because of you and I'm like, no. Yeah.

[1559] This is, this joke is a polarizing joke, but I'll say it anyways.

[1560] We went to, you know Erica Christensen.

[1561] We went to her wedding.

[1562] My oldest daughter at the time was probably two and a half three.

[1563] And she saw Erica in the wedding dress for the first time.

[1564] So it's kind of the first like her understanding of marriage and wedding and everything.

[1565] And we're walking to go get our seats.

[1566] And she said, I'm going to marry you, daddy.

[1567] And I said, Oh, I can't wait.

[1568] And Kristen goes, she goes to me, you know, you can't marry our daughter.

[1569] And I said, are you kidding?

[1570] I'd be the perfect husband.

[1571] I'd spoil her senseless.

[1572] I'd never want to have sex with her because she's my child.

[1573] What more could she ask for?

[1574] Just a sugar daddy who doesn't ever need to sleep in the same bed.

[1575] I mean, isn't that the dream?

[1576] I don't think of it.

[1577] Monica, you need to shut that down.

[1578] I'm going to work on it.

[1579] There is a hashtag for that.

[1580] All right.

[1581] You want to know what I are learning from you and Seth?

[1582] Yeah, please.

[1583] So I will tell you that in my life, there are very few times where I get quiet.

[1584] Like, I will be the pauper to the president.

[1585] Like, I will engage.

[1586] And the two of you were so fast and so funny and so charismatic that I tried so hard, so many times to compete with the two of you.

[1587] Like, we'll be at dinner or we'll be in a moment.

[1588] And I would try to keep up.

[1589] And I realized it was the very first time of my life that I was like, oh, I'm not that fast and I'm not that funny.

[1590] And since that, I mean, it was a very clear aware.

[1591] I was very clearly aware that I wasn't as fast and as funny.

[1592] And to this day, if I get around, I can't do a sitcom.

[1593] I can't do like a show where I'm funny, funny, funny.

[1594] Really?

[1595] Yeah, because I get really over.

[1596] We ruined you?

[1597] It sounds like we ruined your life.

[1598] Can I tell you though that I, during that whole time too, I was going, oh, wow, Seth, I can't think as fast as Seth.

[1599] Well, you were thinking.

[1600] He is.

[1601] Well, can we talk about him?

[1602] Yeah, yeah.

[1603] Pound for pound, the most beautiful man on earth.

[1604] Sure.

[1605] Pound for pound.

[1606] He looks like Brad Pitt and Fight Club with his top off.

[1607] Those eyes, he's got beautiful eyeballs.

[1608] He's real, I mean.

[1609] His physique and without a. Remember you and I were going to the gym and shit.

[1610] And he was like going up to eat every day.

[1611] Yeah, we were doing pushups nonstop.

[1612] We were doing pull -ups on the set of the, the fucking tree house.

[1613] Cez was like eating candy and stuff.

[1614] He loves candy.

[1615] And he had a fucking eight pack and great deltoids.

[1616] And we were like, what's going on here?

[1617] Real handsome man. We had tall, skinny fat guy disease.

[1618] Yeah, he's just the most.

[1619] He is the best.

[1620] And he's so lightning fast.

[1621] It's incredible.

[1622] I was sober during the movie until the last week, if you recall.

[1623] I do recall that last week.

[1624] it was that thing where you were there is no end the switch gets flipped yeah there's no end no there really isn't there's no it i don't know if you remember i was hanging out with the stunt guy he had been in the lord of the rings movies he was like the biggest guy on set he was huge and i ended up yeah like day three of being awake wrestling just staring at him for two days and finally i was like we got to wrestle i got to find out how i would do against you because he was just a monster and that's my mind i'm And crystal meth and X's seeing everything he and I were taking.

[1625] I was like, we need to fucking wrestle in my apartment right now to find out who's who.

[1626] You got to tell you.

[1627] And that's where it ended for me. That's so terrifying.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] And then we went to the rap party and I had chewed my lips.

[1630] I don't know if you remember my lips were like five times the size of they are now.

[1631] Because I had just been gnawing on them for 72 hours.

[1632] That wasn't, I mean.

[1633] Is that weird to see a switch like that?

[1634] Well, I've never, well, first of all, I was never around.

[1635] Like when I would never, if I would never, if I had seen that.

[1636] And I would have stopped you.

[1637] Sure, sure.

[1638] Because there was that thing.

[1639] Like, I'm not drinking.

[1640] I'm not drinking.

[1641] And you had this thing.

[1642] And I'll never forget it.

[1643] You were like, you know, if here's the deal.

[1644] When you're drinking, you'll get, you'll be done before the end of the bottle.

[1645] I'm like, yes, dude.

[1646] I've never drank a bottle of anything in my life.

[1647] He's like, yeah, I will go.

[1648] And then I'll go buy another bottle.

[1649] And I'll buy another bottle.

[1650] And then I'll drive to the airport.

[1651] Yeah.

[1652] To buy other things to keep going.

[1653] And I'm like, oh my God.

[1654] it's so yeah when I latch on to a feeling if I have the power to not let it go I will not let it go that's weirdly what addiction is for me if I reach a zone that I enjoy it just a wall of fire will not keep me from maintaining that I don't want it to end I refuse to go to bed and have to deal with it not feeling that way tomorrow I just will just go into like collapse it's yeah it's very bizarre because I'm not that way sober I'm very responsible but yeah once I get that feeling I will I will maintain it but my thing now is my life back then was ones or tens it was either I was at a 10 for 72 hours or is that a fucking one then for the next four days and my life was just ones and tens right and I had to learn to live between like four and seven so I don't even let myself I try to police myself about getting to anything because I will then try to maintain that.

[1655] Like you know Ethan Soply, right?

[1656] Yeah, sure.

[1657] He's the greatest guy ever.

[1658] He and I are the same.

[1659] We have the same brain, right?

[1660] And I ran into him.

[1661] We were both doing this show.

[1662] And he goes, weren't you addicted to a while to Motrin and Diet Coke?

[1663] And he goes, yeah, here's exactly what happened.

[1664] I one time had a Motrin and a Diet Coke.

[1665] And for whatever reason, probably unrelated to the Motrin Diet Coke, I had a great feeling.

[1666] And for the next seven months, I was like, I must get that feeling again.

[1667] And I'm just keep eating motoring type.

[1668] This is in sobriety.

[1669] And I'm like, I so relate.

[1670] I had a halls one time and I happened to feel great.

[1671] So I ate a million halls.

[1672] No, you did not.

[1673] Oh yeah, I was fully addicted to halls for like six months.

[1674] My wife was just scratching her head going, I don't understand.

[1675] And I'm like, I don't fully either, but this is what it is.

[1676] Now, do you have, I don't know.

[1677] It's like, I get so worried in talking, even talking about it.

[1678] I get so worried.

[1679] Well, Saturday, it'll be 14 years since I dream.

[1680] So I think we're relatively no you can never say that again that's the fucking rule number one yeah yeah you can't say that yeah I'm gonna say it a little bit all right um before you go I just want to know um you're wearing a Michigan hat yeah was it was that for me so I'm like no but my cousin I mean I'll give it to you if you want it because I do love you my cousin um Heather she took the special Olympics kids from Michigan to the special Olympics in in Seattle and they got third.

[1681] Oh, that's awesome.

[1682] And basketball.

[1683] Oh, really?

[1684] So then I was like, that's the greatest hat ever.

[1685] She's like, I'm sending you a hat.

[1686] Oh, that's wonderful.

[1687] Yeah.

[1688] So super proud of her.

[1689] So before you go, good girls, when does it come back on the air?

[1690] We come back in the, how much do you love May Whitman?

[1691] I've never.

[1692] I've never.

[1693] She's the best.

[1694] Yeah.

[1695] And we come back on in spring.

[1696] I was just, I was saying earlier today, I was talking to someone who just met her.

[1697] And I'm like, oh, those six years I'm, parenthood.

[1698] I just, I can talk to her wall to wall for 14 hours straight.

[1699] I just love talking to her.

[1700] She's so fun to talk to.

[1701] Isn't she?

[1702] She's, she's awesome.

[1703] She's magic.

[1704] She's magic.

[1705] I don't have her like that because I never see her.

[1706] Right.

[1707] You know, we're sort of, I'm sure it was the same on parent note.

[1708] Like you were separated.

[1709] So you never really seeing them that much.

[1710] But it's so great when you get to work and you're like, oh, I have three scenes with May today.

[1711] We're going to have a blast all day.

[1712] Do you miss parenthood?

[1713] So much.

[1714] Not necessarily like I wish I was still on it.

[1715] But what a beautiful six years.

[1716] Loved everybody.

[1717] Easy schedule, close to home.

[1718] Just awesome.

[1719] I love you, Matt Lillard.

[1720] I love you, you're such a sweetheart.

[1721] I'm so glad you came down and talked to me today.

[1722] I'm glad you asked.

[1723] I was feeling left out.

[1724] Oh, you were you?

[1725] A little bit.

[1726] I was like, oh, I'm sorry.

[1727] No, I'm happy to be here.

[1728] It's so funny.

[1729] Just one second on that.

[1730] Now that I'm on this side, of it all these thoughts I had about shows and stuff I now realize it's just like you've directed things sure yeah once you get on that side of it right doesn't so many of these things that you thought were happening you recognize that's not at all what was happening no one was talking about my relevance compared to anyone else but I was like oh look he's doing a show oh there's Seth oh I'm ready I'm available no but then I don't want to call and say hey I'm I'm around I would love that by the way At no point am I sitting back going like, you know, it's not big enough to be on the show.

[1731] Like, that's just not happening of all the things.

[1732] Well, when you're on the other side going, well, I guess I'm not big enough.

[1733] That's fine.

[1734] No way.

[1735] Fine.

[1736] No, I was 100 % going to talk to you.

[1737] Because I talk incessantly about without a paddle on this podcast because it's still my most formative, craziest best experience working.

[1738] And so it comes up nonstop.

[1739] So there's no way we're not all talking.

[1740] Well, I'm glad.

[1741] Yeah.

[1742] I'm glad to be here.

[1743] Thank you for letting me. Lither.

[1744] Oh, no, I loved it.

[1745] And, uh, and you'll come back.

[1746] How about that?

[1747] You're, I'm telling you now, you're invited back anytime you want.

[1748] I'm coming back.

[1749] Whenever you'll have me. All right.

[1750] Thank you, money.

[1751] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1752] Hello, it's been a while.

[1753] Hey, how about you?

[1754] That's a song you and I. I listened to on the ride over to the attic.

[1755] I recognize it.

[1756] It won't leave my head.

[1757] Hello, it's been a while since we check those facts.

[1758] Well, we're not doing the fact check yet.

[1759] Why?

[1760] This is the intro.

[1761] Not now.

[1762] Okay.

[1763] Okay, we are doing that.

[1764] I love getting you off kilter.

[1765] We just caught Monica Padman with her pants down.

[1766] No, we got you with your pants down.

[1767] Oh, did we?

[1768] Yeah.

[1769] You can't throw a curve ball on me that I won't at least connect with.

[1770] What?

[1771] I don't know I'm going to knock it out of the park, but I'm going to make contact with that curvy.

[1772] I'm using a sports metaphor.

[1773] Do you like it?

[1774] It's a baseball sports metaphor.

[1775] I don't get it.

[1776] You know pitchers have a curve ball.

[1777] Sure.

[1778] And I like to call it a curvy.

[1779] And I'm going to name drop for a second.

[1780] No, it's never mind.

[1781] I'm not going to.

[1782] So gross.

[1783] I'm going to.

[1784] When I was doing idiocracy, Luke Wilson, And I had this non -going bit where anytime we wanted to improv, we were going to warn the person, we would go, hey, do you like hitting curvy's?

[1785] And if the person said they liked hitting curvy's, then you were open to improv.

[1786] Oh, my God.

[1787] Now I don't regret telling the story.

[1788] I guess I got to told the same story with the same impact just left out Luke Wilson's name.

[1789] I was just about to say that.

[1790] That's how I'll improve.

[1791] If you feel self -conscious about name dropping, you don't have to do that.

[1792] You can still tell your story without it.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] Let's break down name dropping, though, because it's a nuanced topic just like anything else.

[1795] Like, I think, and I have done this in the past, I am connecting myself with someone of higher status so that hopefully my status will improve.

[1796] But if someone's your legitimate co -worker for four months, are you name dropping or is that just the person in your story?

[1797] Like, I'm not trying to increase my status by saying Luke Wilson in that scenario.

[1798] But it definitely fits the definition of name dropping.

[1799] Right.

[1800] I guess if we're talking about, if I'm telling you a story and you don't know personally the other person I'm talking about, then I probably don't say the person, right?

[1801] But if I'm talking.

[1802] No, I disagree.

[1803] Like when you tell stories about your childhood in Atlanta, I'm hearing all these names.

[1804] Yeah, sometimes I say my friend Gina about I really, I do that because you do that.

[1805] But in life, I don't do that.

[1806] What do you even say?

[1807] Do you just say my friend in Georgia and I did blank?

[1808] I just say, yeah, my friend and I were at the park and we...

[1809] It's more, to me, the story's better when there's so specificity.

[1810] And I go, oh, Gina.

[1811] Now I'm following Gina.

[1812] And then maybe Margaret's going to enter the story.

[1813] And it would be hard to juggle two different people in the story.

[1814] So my friend and I went to the park.

[1815] And then my other friend showed up.

[1816] And then so my friend said, are you going to go on the monkey bars?

[1817] And I'd be like, wait, the friend that showed up or the friend you arrived with?

[1818] Okay.

[1819] I understand the confusion.

[1820] Yeah.

[1821] Sure.

[1822] I don't know.

[1823] I just think depending on the type of story But you found it distasteful when I said Luke Wilson No, I didn't But I know that You have this thing with name dropping And I do think it's nice to be aware of that Yeah Because sometimes it can not from you But in life it can come off But you know what Tell me I What if you just go You know what I hate you I don't like you I just don't like you That was the final straw You know what?

[1824] I'm done here I hate you No I think because It's maybe only name dropping If this doesn't feel fair Yeah but that also doesn't feel fair Because if I'm telling somebody a story about you I should be able to say your name Well certainly you should because Quite often if you were telling a story about you story about me, it almost wouldn't make sense unless it was me. You know what I'm saying?

[1825] Like if you're like, oh, my friend gets bare naked and, and touches the wall with toilet paper or something bizarre about me, it almost.

[1826] No, but if I'm just like, uh.

[1827] Dax and I went.

[1828] Yeah.

[1829] We went to the stamp.

[1830] We went to the stamp.

[1831] I'm ill. The lunch.

[1832] Yeah, Monica just came down with a phantom illness in the last 90 seconds.

[1833] On the ride over, maybe it was just your excitement about me having installed my new car stereo so eloquently, elegantly.

[1834] Elegantly.

[1835] Was that it?

[1836] Were you on a little bit of a high?

[1837] No, I was just trying to tell you that you did such a nice job.

[1838] Thank you.

[1839] I spent the last three days frustrated installing a stereo that doesn't fit in my Buick Roadmaster.

[1840] And I'm just, it's a combination of stubbornness and, uh, and I won't quit.

[1841] So I got it out of the box.

[1842] I held it up to the hole in the dash and I go, mm, not the right size.

[1843] It's not wide enough.

[1844] None of the hardware is going to bolt in correctly.

[1845] There's going to be big gaps on the side.

[1846] I need to return this and get one that fits.

[1847] And then I, and then I started trying to pack it back in the box.

[1848] And I said, I can't do that.

[1849] It will never go back in this box the way it came out of this box.

[1850] So then I'm going to deal with some big problem returning it.

[1851] I'm just going to live with this mistake and make it work.

[1852] And then cut to three days of fabricating weird things.

[1853] It couldn't have been more sloppily assembled.

[1854] But it looks good on the outside.

[1855] It looks great.

[1856] And it works.

[1857] It functions.

[1858] It does.

[1859] I now have Bluetooth calling in my 28 -year -old car now.

[1860] Yeah, it's great.

[1861] So exciting.

[1862] And I was playing some XM radio over it.

[1863] I just was doing it over my fine.

[1864] I think I can make my maps come.

[1865] up now on the screen?

[1866] I was still ill then.

[1867] You were?

[1868] Yeah.

[1869] But you were on a little bit of a high.

[1870] Sure.

[1871] When did you come down with this illness?

[1872] I have been feeling...

[1873] You've been feeling ill for the better part of what?

[1874] A couple days.

[1875] Two days?

[1876] Maybe three.

[1877] Oh, wow.

[1878] Just a little.

[1879] Okay.

[1880] And we all had that gastral intestinal issue in Texas.

[1881] Yeah.

[1882] So it's been a really.

[1883] real rough couple weeks for you.

[1884] I know and I was sick before that too.

[1885] I feel like I haven't been healthy in six weeks.

[1886] Do we need to get your T -cell count?

[1887] I'm a little nervous.

[1888] Monitored or something.

[1889] I'm having also potentially a sinus infection.

[1890] Oh my goodness.

[1891] This is starting to feel like name dropping.

[1892] This is sympathy seeking.

[1893] Couldn't you like, couldn't it?

[1894] Well, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[1895] I'm not going to accuse you of it, but let's just have a broader conversation.

[1896] where you're not the guilty party, but wouldn't you agree that sympathy seeking is as repugnant as name -dropping?

[1897] Yes.

[1898] I think we all have an aversion to any kind of like attention getting, even though what we all do it.

[1899] We're all trying to get a little taste of that attention.

[1900] Sure.

[1901] And then there's just certain methods we disagree with.

[1902] Like, go get first place in a foot race and then people give you attention.

[1903] No one minds that.

[1904] You're like, oh, you earn that.

[1905] You went out there and you practiced and then you finished first.

[1906] Let's give this person some approval and attention.

[1907] But then when they get all that approval and attention, I think this is why people bump up against, like, reality stars.

[1908] Like, they didn't deserve that, as if anyone deserves a ton of attention.

[1909] Well, you, I think, I think some activities are more worthy of attention than others.

[1910] Sure, but carrying cancer is probably the most.

[1911] Yes.

[1912] They should get all the attention.

[1913] Celebratory worthy.

[1914] Of course.

[1915] Accomplishment.

[1916] But that is certainly not our ranking and how much attention we give people.

[1917] Yeah.

[1918] It's all fucked up.

[1919] There are cardiologists that have saved thousands of lives.

[1920] And I'm probably getting more attention than that person.

[1921] That's an injustice.

[1922] I agree.

[1923] Yeah.

[1924] I feel like you're you're doing a long -term inception on me. Why?

[1925] Well, just because you're so smart and cunning in Machiavellian.

[1926] And like just even you being sick today is I'm probably walking into a a trap.

[1927] You probably feel 100%.

[1928] What are you saying?

[1929] You're like ex machina.

[1930] I think you're going to kill me at some point.

[1931] Oh, maybe.

[1932] Don't you think that's possible?

[1933] No, I think you're going to kill me because one time you almost killed you.

[1934] Yeah.

[1935] One time you almost killed me. I thought you were an intruder.

[1936] Yes.

[1937] I was in the closet in your house and you were in a different room and and I could hear rustling through the walls.

[1938] Yes.

[1939] I was putting some stuff away.

[1940] in Kristen's closet.

[1941] And we were putting the girls down.

[1942] Mm -hmm.

[1943] And then all of a sudden you just charge in with your fists up.

[1944] Uh -huh.

[1945] I was ready to go.

[1946] And in anger in your eyes.

[1947] Did it remind you of any of that footage you've seen from the Congo of the male silverbacks protecting their territory?

[1948] It didn't.

[1949] That's what I want to look like.

[1950] I know.

[1951] That's not what you looked like.

[1952] What did I look like?

[1953] You looked homicidal.

[1954] Scary.

[1955] Yeah.

[1956] I didn't like it.

[1957] I'm sorry.

[1958] And I was scared.

[1959] I didn't mean to scare you.

[1960] But I got the intended outcome because I certainly would want to scare the intruder.

[1961] So it's good to know that my, whatever my.

[1962] Well, if the intruder's a tiny girl who can't defend herself, then yeah, it worked.

[1963] Yeah, but I bet maybe the cues I was sending the posturing cues, the biological posturing cues were probably probably work across the board, I would think.

[1964] no it's because i i can't do anything in that scenario you could shit your pants i've always we've friends of mine and i in our youth would talk about this like is that a would that be a good strategy to defend yourself like if you're on the the playground and you get surrounded by like 30 kids and you know you're going to be the recipient of a beating yeah if you just at that moment poop your pants they're not and there's a smell And they don't want to touch you.

[1965] They don't, they no longer want to touch you.

[1966] They want to get away from you.

[1967] That could be a survival strategy.

[1968] That's true.

[1969] Even if a guy, like you saw a guy approaching with a gun, you just quickly pooped your pants.

[1970] And he got there and he said like, give me all your money.

[1971] And you said, I'd love to.

[1972] What's your name?

[1973] And he could tell this was going to take a while.

[1974] He was going to get what he wanted, but it was going to take a while.

[1975] And you had poop in your pants.

[1976] He might go, you know what, man, I'm going to steal someone else's wallet.

[1977] Or you could say, I'm happy to.

[1978] My wallet's in my butt.

[1979] And I've also shit.

[1980] So if you want this wallet, it's going to come with some shit.

[1981] Yeah.

[1982] You can have it.

[1983] I think I've heard stories and I can't recollect them perfectly now, but I feel like people have deployed that as a strategy of getting out of DUIs.

[1984] Like the cops on their way up to the window, they quickly poop their pants.

[1985] And then when they roll down the window, first of all you can't smell alcohol anymore because all you can smell is duty.

[1986] Sure.

[1987] And then also the cops now in such a precarious situation.

[1988] because no one wants to be even communicating with someone who's got a hot, a hot evacuation in their slacks.

[1989] You want to just be done with the whole thing, right?

[1990] Like, you know, cops are human.

[1991] Like the cop probably starts with like, sir, do you know, I just, oh my goodness.

[1992] Okay, I'm getting another call and then they, don't you think?

[1993] It seems plausible.

[1994] It's, it could, yeah, in certain circumstances, sure.

[1995] Depending on how strong that cop's sense of smell is.

[1996] That's a factor, a variable.

[1997] If they don't have a good sense of smell, they won't care.

[1998] They won't care.

[1999] Yeah, my father, had my father been a cop, he's zero sense of smell.

[2000] Oh, I have a very good sense of smell.

[2001] Bragg number one.

[2002] I want to get a buzzer in here like a scoreboard.

[2003] First of all, you've called me a bragger today and attention -seeking.

[2004] for an illness.

[2005] I've appointed myself the person in your life that's going to keep you humble.

[2006] Oh my God.

[2007] No. I'm teasing.

[2008] You don't need any help staying humble.

[2009] Thanks.

[2010] You're welcome.

[2011] Let's talk about some facts.

[2012] Or you still want me to do the intro.

[2013] There was a few.

[2014] Okay.

[2015] Okay.

[2016] Oh, okay, here's a fact.

[2017] Okay.

[2018] Women do notice your body and chips.

[2019] Okay.

[2020] What data did you gather to make this story?

[2021] Okay.

[2022] They do, but think about it's much easier to tell someone the same sex, something positive, about their appearance than it.

[2023] It is a stranger of the opposite sex.

[2024] It is?

[2025] Well, of course.

[2026] There's no, there's no threat of, of anything, of anything good or bad happening.

[2027] Yeah.

[2028] I, hmm, yeah, maybe I'm more inclined to tell a guy.

[2029] I thought he got in great shape for a movie.

[2030] But I also tell women all the time, like, I used to text Erica all the time.

[2031] We would, Chris and I would watch.

[2032] The, the, the parenthood program on Tuesday nights or whatever night I was on.

[2033] And always like mid episode, there'd always be a scene with Erica where she just looked so beautiful.

[2034] It was overwhelming.

[2035] Like her eyes were so beautiful.

[2036] And I would immediately text her, oh, Buzz, you're just the most beautiful creature.

[2037] So I, I feel like I'm spreading out those observations to male and female.

[2038] Okay.

[2039] But you are not normal.

[2040] Maybe I'm more brazen.

[2041] You're not normal.

[2042] You're abnormal.

[2043] I also have the cover fire of being.

[2044] known to be married probably that's a bit of cover fire so compliment also i think you've been around when i do it too if we have a uh server at a restaurant and the server has beautiful eyes boy or girl i'll always tell them and uh but i'm with Kristen yeah so there's like no threat like i'm clearly not hitting on you i'm just telling letting you know you have beautiful eyes yeah that usually goes off without hitch although i did that to i did that to a mom at our preschool and I felt like it was a lead balloon.

[2045] It was the first time that ever happened to me. What did you say?

[2046] Well, her daughter is so beautiful.

[2047] I remember Del's was obsessed with her.

[2048] And then I saw the mom and I go, oh, no wonder she's obsessed with you guys look so much alike.

[2049] You're so beautiful.

[2050] But I was in front of Kristen.

[2051] But I saw the look on her face.

[2052] She was like, I don't want to be told by you.

[2053] I'm beautiful.

[2054] Oh, interesting.

[2055] It was interesting.

[2056] It took me by surprise.

[2057] But then again, I could also be misreading it.

[2058] Maybe it was just like, oh, what an unexpected thing to come out of your mouth.

[2059] I don't really know even how to respond.

[2060] Maybe it wasn't discussed.

[2061] It was just like.

[2062] It probably wasn't discussed, but it could have been discomfort.

[2063] Sure, which is, again, I'm trapped in my own perspective.

[2064] I can't imagine being upset.

[2065] Someone told me I was beautiful.

[2066] Yeah, but people are different.

[2067] People are different.

[2068] And people, it's hard to tell a stranger, a compliment about their physical self.

[2069] Uh -huh.

[2070] That's fine.

[2071] That's why that's happening.

[2072] I would even, but let me just counterpoint this for one second and then we'll move on.

[2073] I would almost see, like when I'm around out in America and I'm on a plane flying to Tennessee in the dude who tells me I got in great shape, I would assume for that guy, he is nervous that I'm going to think he's gay and hitting on me. There's a more present homophobia that we can all acknowledge between men.

[2074] I find it even more shocking that a man would be willing to potentially come across is, you know, desiring my body.

[2075] Yeah, but it depends on the way they're saying it.

[2076] Yeah.

[2077] Well, they start with a strong bro.

[2078] There's signaling me a little bit.

[2079] Bro.

[2080] Oh, boy.

[2081] Just tip your illness over the...

[2082] Yeah, I didn't...

[2083] I'll be more careful the rest of this.

[2084] I don't want to see you throw up or anything.

[2085] No, I think there's a difference in the way people compliment each other.

[2086] Mm -hmm.

[2087] And if it feels sexual or romantic or...

[2088] Sure.

[2089] Charged.

[2090] Charged, sexually charged?

[2091] Yeah.

[2092] Okay.

[2093] Okay.

[2094] Oh, you said that when you, what?

[2095] You have this pattern in the fact check that I love, which is like you read one of your facts and you go, oh.

[2096] And I love it.

[2097] It's almost like I get to witness the first time you learn this and it's happening again.

[2098] Oh.

[2099] That was just a tick.

[2100] I'm going to stop.

[2101] No, don't ever stop.

[2102] You said when you went to Lillard's house that you were amazed and you're like, this is like Thurston Hill.

[2103] Thurston Howl.

[2104] Oh.

[2105] From Gilligan's Island.

[2106] I looked up Thurston Hill.

[2107] Oh, who's Thurston Hill?

[2108] A very, an actor in the world.

[2109] Okay.

[2110] Um, but I couldn't, I could not decipher what you had seen of this person and what you could be referring to, but Thurston Howl.

[2111] Yeah, I think it was Thurston Howell the third.

[2112] Oh.

[2113] And his wife's name was Lovey.

[2114] And he was said, Lovy, let's go into the beach, Lovey.

[2115] He spoke like that.

[2116] He kind of speaks like the character on Yacht Rock Radio now.

[2117] I think he's doing a Thurston Howell impersonation.

[2118] I see.

[2119] Yeah.

[2120] And he was rich.

[2121] Oh, it was very rich.

[2122] Yeah.

[2123] Mm. Lovely.

[2124] The Pink Flamingo movie.

[2125] Mm -hmm.

[2126] I tried to find the scene with the...

[2127] Anus.

[2128] The big old hole in his butt, her butt, his book.

[2129] His, his.

[2130] It was a guy.

[2131] Okay.

[2132] And I couldn't find it.

[2133] I'm happy for you.

[2134] You didn't find that.

[2135] I found some other terrible things in my search.

[2136] I bet you did.

[2137] Yeah.

[2138] Divine like steel stakes in that movie.

[2139] By putting them in between her thighs or his thigh.

[2140] I know.

[2141] I know the problem.

[2142] What's interesting is back then they called him divine, but we wouldn't call him divine now.

[2143] We would call her divine.

[2144] He was a, he was a, he was a transvestite back then.

[2145] He dressed He was a cross dresser.

[2146] Well, the old distinction, I don't know if it's still the distinction, but a transvestite was someone who dressed with a different gender and then a transsexual was someone who had had some kind of procedures.

[2147] Yes, surgery.

[2148] And I don't think that that divine had any surgeries to my knowledge.

[2149] So back then I think they referred to Divine as him.

[2150] Was Divine ever, did you ever see him?

[2151] In his male persona?

[2152] Right.

[2153] Never.

[2154] Okay.

[2155] Then yeah.

[2156] Yeah.

[2157] But he he or she eats a turd off the street.

[2158] I saw that part.

[2159] Oh, dog poop.

[2160] Yes, a dog pooped and yeah that's right and it was eaten and it was really you could tell it was real yep yep yeah oh yeah that's probably what sparked my illness oh maybe i looked at all this this morning but what's crazy is that john waters had that movie in him and then also had crybaby and a man's serial mom like he's a good director just a just a wide range so interesting and then his his hometown is is Baltimore.

[2161] He's like the resident artists in Baltimore.

[2162] He's celebrated.

[2163] He just has a cool story.

[2164] Now, whether you like pink flamingo or not, most people, I'm sure, would find it distasteful and objectionable.

[2165] But he is a great story.

[2166] Talk about a guy who picked his lane, not a popular lane, openly gay, every trigger you could have.

[2167] And just stayed the course and then became kind of a celebrated here.

[2168] Yeah.

[2169] Yeah, it's neat.

[2170] And another thing that happens in that movie is cookie and crackers, two characters, have sex while crushing a live chicken between them.

[2171] Yeah.

[2172] This movie is not, yeah.

[2173] It's not for me. It wouldn't hold up to today's rigors of the SPCC.

[2174] ASPCA.

[2175] Yeah, it would not pass.

[2176] No, no. Pepita would be all over that film.

[2177] I wish I could have seen the anus portion, just to see how big.

[2178] Just to see if a grape, it really would have fit in there.

[2179] And I do wonder if it holds up for me, because it's been 30 years since I saw that movie.

[2180] So did you like that movie?

[2181] Because I saw a few clips.

[2182] I liked it in the way that as a kid, I also liked the faces of death movies.

[2183] Or I liked anything, this is a pattern of my whole life.

[2184] I liked anything that said, oh, here's the system.

[2185] Fuck this system.

[2186] we'll do whatever we want.

[2187] I was always drawn to that punk rock mentality of don't take any system for granted and do whatever you want.

[2188] I know I was never into hurting people.

[2189] And what's interesting is I told you I had lunch with Eric Weinstein.

[2190] And he was learning disabled and his brother was learning disabled.

[2191] And they're both prominent intellectuals now in our country.

[2192] And it clicked for me in that meeting where it all comes from, which I could see it best in him where the system he was in told him he was stupid for 10 years.

[2193] And then he graduated top of his class in mathematics from Harvard, which is impossible to do.

[2194] So I think when you have that experience, you become innately or perpetually questioning of all systems.

[2195] Sure.

[2196] Makes sense.

[2197] Like in the most formative system you were a part of was flawed.

[2198] Yeah.

[2199] Then I think you just have this inherent distrust or questioning of all systems.

[2200] And it's frustrating to be around.

[2201] I think Kristen finds it frustrating.

[2202] Well, it also, it depends.

[2203] And it depends on how it's executed.

[2204] Like, in this case, with this movie, like, it just makes me just like, people need back to attention.

[2205] seeking.

[2206] Right.

[2207] You thought it was unnecessarily provocative.

[2208] Yeah.

[2209] Like the things people are doing to get, ultimately to get attention and noticed and to me seem outside the box and outside the system.

[2210] And yeah, poking around just just cut.

[2211] It feels so arbitrary to me. So we're going to have a role reversal right now because I'm going to take what would normally be your point of view.

[2212] Okay.

[2213] And I'm going to tell you that here's John Waters.

[2214] He's found this community of people of weirdos and regi and disenfranchised and people that are not mainstream.

[2215] Everyone in that movie's got something weird about them by that day's definition of weird.

[2216] Sure.

[2217] So he has this pocket in this community of the Broken Toys Island and he says, you know what?

[2218] We deserve a movie too.

[2219] We're not like you, but we deserve a movie too.

[2220] And so I'm going to make that movie.

[2221] And when you think about it that way, it's kind of empowering and sweet.

[2222] Yep.

[2223] But I also like what is we?

[2224] We those five people or we the the gay community?

[2225] Like what does we mean?

[2226] Because I do I do not think it's a it's a mass group that relates to that movie.

[2227] Well, I would I would argue that the facts speak for themselves.

[2228] It's 40 years later.

[2229] and you and I are talking about it's a cult classic it is so if there was an audience for it a lot of people saw that and whether they stole meat between their thighs or dressed up like a woman they at least identified with feeling like you don't at all fit into this world and so there was it didn't have to be the exact example of how they felt that way but there was some recognition of oh yeah I feel like a complete freak in this society as well like I'm not fitting into it yeah So in whatever way, the people that watched it and watched it over and over again took some kind of pleasure out of it or they wouldn't do it over and over again.

[2230] But normally you would be on this side of the argument and I'd be on your side.

[2231] Well, sometimes I think people just get pleasure and get entertainment out of absurdity and ridiculousness like the room.

[2232] That's a huge cult classic and not because people are.

[2233] relating to Tommy it's because it's I agree but but that one that one didn't have an intention where it or it had an intention but it wasn't it wasn't what was achieved I think John Waters had an attention and intention that he achieved like he wanted to shock he wanted to make mainstream feel as uncomfortable as he feels about the mainstream or is that he has been relegated to feel moving through life and he wanted other people to to feel that.

[2234] Yeah.

[2235] So, and he achieved that goal.

[2236] I think Tommy Wiseau was trying to make fatal attraction.

[2237] Yeah.

[2238] And I don't think he hit that mark.

[2239] Right.

[2240] I don't either.

[2241] But anyway.

[2242] Or basic instinct.

[2243] Such a sexual movie.

[2244] Killian Murphy is Killian with the hard K. Okay.

[2245] What's spelled with a scene.

[2246] though, right?

[2247] Spelled with the C with the hard K sound.

[2248] Blockbuster video.

[2249] We might have some young listeners who don't even know what blockbuster video is.

[2250] Well, then let's start on with the song.

[2251] Wow, what a difference.

[2252] Blackbuster video.

[2253] Wow, what a difference.

[2254] Blackbuster video.

[2255] I don't recognize that song.

[2256] I've never heard that.

[2257] That was their theme song.

[2258] Wow, what a difference.

[2259] Blockbuster video.

[2260] video.

[2261] They had a theme song.

[2262] What an interesting choice because why, like they defined themselves as wow, what a difference.

[2263] They were so different from all the other video stores, which how different can you be?

[2264] They were.

[2265] They had a lot of titles.

[2266] They did carry, they had an impressive inventory and they had quite a snack bar.

[2267] Yeah.

[2268] It was a video store to rent videos.

[2269] VHS tapes.

[2270] Yeah.

[2271] I don't even think they, they moved into.

[2272] DVDs?

[2273] They even had laser discs in the interim between DVD and VHS.

[2274] It doesn't exist anymore, but I spent a lot of, there was a one exists, right?

[2275] In Alaska, it's always on John Oliver.

[2276] There's one blockbuster left in Alaska.

[2277] And it's now being celebrated.

[2278] That's right.

[2279] That's right.

[2280] Okay, so there's one blockbuster video left.

[2281] Yeah.

[2282] But it was a cool place.

[2283] People should make a pilgrimage.

[2284] I used to rent so many movies at once.

[2285] As fun as the movie you would bring home was perusing the aisles.

[2286] Oh, God.

[2287] It was an experience.

[2288] It was.

[2289] Yeah.

[2290] Because you would, you'd rent a movie.

[2291] You had no idea about it.

[2292] You never heard it.

[2293] You're basing it solely on the cover.

[2294] The cover.

[2295] Yeah, all the time.

[2296] All the time.

[2297] I know.

[2298] It's so great.

[2299] There'd be like a hot person.

[2300] And then maybe for me, there'd be like a car in the background.

[2301] I'm like, well, how bad could this be?

[2302] A hot girl and a muscle car.

[2303] Yeah.

[2304] Part of this movie is going to work.

[2305] And my brother and I were upset.

[2306] with these gang movies when we were kids, like the Bronx Warriors and the movie, the Warriors, the Wanderers.

[2307] And there was one where this guy, it was in the Bronx, they're all post -apocalyptic, and a guy drags another guy with a motorcycle with a chain.

[2308] We loved those movies.

[2309] So we would just scour the video store looking for like any guy holding a baseball bat or a tire iron or a chain.

[2310] And we were like, this movie's going to be great.

[2311] Wow.

[2312] Yeah, it was fun.

[2313] Okay, two hours a day on social media does equal out to a month of life even more.

[2314] Even more.

[2315] Yeah, the numbers are actually higher than a month.

[2316] Okay.

[2317] Yeah, well, depending on how many days in the month.

[2318] Okay.

[2319] But, so that's disturbing.

[2320] Yeah, it's not good.

[2321] That's great news.

[2322] So Shawshank, you said, did terribly, financial disaster.

[2323] Shawshank's total domestic gross was $28 million.

[2324] And the weekend gross, September 23rd, 1999, was $727 ,000.

[2325] That's a bad opening.

[2326] Yeah, it is.

[2327] Yeah.

[2328] You don't want to open under a million.

[2329] You really don't want to open under $10 million.

[2330] Yeah.

[2331] If you're in the hundreds of thousands, everyone's shitting a brick.

[2332] Huge director and big stars at the time.

[2333] and Stephen King property.

[2334] So I think there was some expectations, probably, too.

[2335] Yeah.

[2336] The opening shot of Shawshank is so awesome.

[2337] The movie is fantastic.

[2338] Oh, it's a flawless movie.

[2339] And it has become, it's come to be seen as a huge hit.

[2340] That's why it's a trick in your mind.

[2341] Same with swingers.

[2342] Like, swingers, everyone has seen swingers.

[2343] Everyone knows swingers.

[2344] And, yeah, it didn't make much when it first came out.

[2345] It just had a great life.

[2346] Yeah.

[2347] Idiocracy.

[2348] I think it made $600 ,000.

[2349] or something.

[2350] I don't even know that it broke a million.

[2351] And quite a lot of people saw it.

[2352] Movies are neat that way.

[2353] I hope that's still the trajectory of movies.

[2354] As things evolve, I hope that things can find a secondary life.

[2355] Okay, there were four screams.

[2356] Okay.

[2357] We were hazy on that.

[2358] I have such a vivid memory of seeing, I believe, scream three in the movie theater.

[2359] Okay.

[2360] And just everyone, it was, it's like the best movie experience.

[2361] Oh, yeah.

[2362] Oh, my God, those movies.

[2363] Because you're laughing and screaming.

[2364] And everyone's screaming.

[2365] Like the whole theater, it's so alive in there.

[2366] Yeah.

[2367] So fun.

[2368] Oh, we're just real quick.

[2369] When you were talking about the things you weren't supposed to do with Barth the Bear.

[2370] Yeah.

[2371] He said, A, you can't, you couldn't look him in the eyes.

[2372] B, you can't act afraid around him.

[2373] And B, don't run.

[2374] You said B twice.

[2375] Oh, I did.

[2376] Yeah.

[2377] It was strange.

[2378] So I. I'm just fixing that.

[2379] What if people, they left that and they really couldn't figure out what happened?

[2380] And they were like, he said there were three things, but he only got to be.

[2381] So he must have only said two things.

[2382] And the second and third thing must have been one thing.

[2383] Yeah.

[2384] It's confusing.

[2385] It's hard for people.

[2386] When someone had to pull their car over on the side of the road and just think about what happened?

[2387] Like, what happened?

[2388] He said three things.

[2389] We only got to be.

[2390] I know B is the second.

[2391] letter in the alphabet.

[2392] And then they pull out a piece of paper and they actually write a, B. And then they count that one, two, no, that's two.

[2393] Does not equal three.

[2394] And then they've got three written and circled.

[2395] And equal with the slash through it.

[2396] And then they write down the three sentences.

[2397] It's a beautiful mind.

[2398] I guess if someone, yeah, is doing that, they probably could have never even gotten themselves in a car to begin with or pushed play on something.

[2399] Sadly, I don't think that's true.

[2400] I think there are people on the street Who get stuck on something Yeah Who shouldn't be on the street That's really it I just thought that was a very Fun and surprising interview Yeah now you had never met him in real life No And would you agree with my assessment of him That when you meet him in real life He just has a big presence Like a big attractive presence.

[2401] He was, yes, very much so.

[2402] Very kind and warm.

[2403] Yes.

[2404] And easy.

[2405] Very easy to talk.

[2406] Very inclusive.

[2407] He was great.

[2408] He's a real special guy.

[2409] I liked him a lot.

[2410] I have to imagine the foundation is rooted in Tam.

[2411] Like when you were Tam and then you become famous and successful, like I just think that's the right place to start.

[2412] It's a good story.

[2413] It be Tam and then be a successful person.

[2414] If you're the quarterback in high school and then you've also become a movie star, it's going to be hard for you to be a gracious person probably.

[2415] Maybe, yeah.

[2416] I don't know.

[2417] And then you put me in a little bit of an pickly situation.

[2418] Yeah, you did.

[2419] Yeah, you really did.

[2420] It was uncomfortable a little bit.

[2421] But you know why I did?

[2422] I misread you.

[2423] I thought for you that would be the easiest thing to answer.

[2424] Just knowing who you are and you sitting next to him, I thought, oh, I know what Monica's answer is going to be, which is why I felt safe to ask it.

[2425] I know, but it's still, okay, circling back to our original opening of this fact check.

[2426] Yeah.

[2427] Even if it's true, which I think you're ultimately right.

[2428] That is true.

[2429] I would probably pick him.

[2430] Yeah.

[2431] Yeah.

[2432] Even though I don't really want to.

[2433] say that because I don't know George Clooney, and I'd love to meet him, okay?

[2434] Okay.

[2435] So, but.

[2436] Well, I just know you and I've met both people.

[2437] So I just, I feel pretty high 90s confident that you would pick Lillard.

[2438] Yeah.

[2439] But still, that's uncomfortable for me to say to him.

[2440] It is?

[2441] I think it'd be uncomfortable for you to say Clooney to him.

[2442] Yeah, all of it's uncomfortable.

[2443] It's uncomfortable if I don't pick him and it's uncomfortable if I do pick him.

[2444] Really, I would think it would be, you'd be excited to tell him who just said no one would ever cheat on Clooney for him.

[2445] And then you have an opportunity to go, that's not true.

[2446] I would.

[2447] That you could make that person feel so good.

[2448] You'd be afraid to do that?

[2449] No, because this is exactly what we were talking about earlier.

[2450] You feel totally fine to do that because I don't know.

[2451] I don't know why.

[2452] For some reason, you feel a safety in doing that.

[2453] But most people do not feel a safety.

[2454] like that could definitely come off like I'm attracted to him oh which is also what we're actually saying there and he's a human married person sitting there I'm a single young girl saying I would I would definitely pick you and you think there's a single person on the planet that wouldn't enjoy hearing that yeah his wife probably would not enjoy that Heather is chill as a motherfucker she'd be fine with it in light That could be uncomfortable.

[2455] Well, hitting on him is uncomfortable.

[2456] If you were saying, I would pick you and what are you doing for lunch?

[2457] Now, what are you doing for lunch is an issue?

[2458] Yes, but there's a fine line in the way people perceive things and hear things.

[2459] And I'm not saying like, sure, I think he would probably be happy.

[2460] I think he really like that.

[2461] Yeah, I think he would probably like to hear that.

[2462] but I, it's still, it feels like it's crossing a line.

[2463] It's out of your comfort.

[2464] And it's unprofessional, which is fine.

[2465] It doesn't need to be professional.

[2466] This isn't professional, obviously.

[2467] This is a safe haven for unprofessional.

[2468] It is.

[2469] We have to spend our whole lives being professional.

[2470] And this is the, but we don't.

[2471] Not you and I, no. Other people do.

[2472] Yeah.

[2473] But it could cross over into people feeling weird.

[2474] And I don't want to put anyone in that position.

[2475] It could.

[2476] I don't deny it could.

[2477] But knowing him and knowing Heather, it wouldn't have.

[2478] It would have just made him feel good.

[2479] Well, I told him he was a tremendous personality.

[2480] Yeah.

[2481] Anyways, he was lovely.

[2482] I'm really glad he came in.

[2483] He's so sweet.

[2484] Yeah.

[2485] Wonderful.

[2486] Yeah.

[2487] Like you, Monica Padman.

[2488] Thanks.

[2489] I love you.

[2490] I love you.

[2491] Hope you feel better.

[2492] Stop bringing up my illness.

[2493] Now you're making, it's another, you love to trap me. That's why you're going to murder me. Also, that's what I was going to say that we never circle back to.

[2494] One time you wrote in your journal, I hope Monica dies.

[2495] In your dream.

[2496] Not in real life.

[2497] Let's be ultra clear on that.

[2498] You had a dream.

[2499] You read my journal and it said, I hope Monica dies, which is such a crazy dream to have.

[2500] Was it a dream?

[2501] I mean, if you said you had a dream where you were in a three -way with a blue whale and a squirrel, that to me would be more plausible than you read in my journal.

[2502] I hope you die.

[2503] You must have done something really bad to me that I don't know about.

[2504] Maybe.

[2505] That you think I would want you to die.

[2506] Did you break into the attic?

[2507] No. Oh, my goodness.

[2508] I do sleep here sometimes, but I didn't break in.

[2509] All right.

[2510] I love you for real.

[2511] Okay, bye.

[2512] Bye.

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