Robert Smigel (and Triumph the Insult Comic Dog)

[0] Damn, yes.

[1] Hello, my name is Triumph, the Insulcomic Dog.

[2] And I'm very proud to be Mark Maron's friend.

[3] Very proud indeed.

[4] Have you been?

[5] I'm feeling neurotic.

[6] I've been feeling a little neurotic lately.

[7] Are we good?

[8] We're good.

[9] We're good.

[10] That's your sketch phrase.

[11] I love the girl.

[12] No, wait a minute.

[13] You're not Mark Merck.

[14] I'm Conan.

[15] My name's Conan.

[16] The guy I carried on my back for how many years?

[17] It was at least 10.

[18] It was a decade.

[19] It was about 10.

[20] Yeah, yeah.

[21] I peaked around 2009.

[22] Let me see here.

[23] Okay, let me change my note.

[24] Oh, come on.

[25] Give me nine.

[26] At least give me nine.

[27] Okay, 2009.

[28] If you average between six and the wiener circuit sketch, it comes out in 2009.

[29] Nice.

[30] Okay.

[31] Starting over, my name is Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, and I'm proud to be Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[32] And like most of his friends, I'm not real.

[33] Pachum!

[34] You see, because everybody pretend.

[35] No, Conan, honestly, I've known this guy for years.

[36] I'm one of those people who gets to proudly say that I knew you at the very beginning, and here I am at what is clearly the end.

[37] No, it's great.

[38] No, you got the podcast.

[39] And now look at you.

[40] You're on satellite radio.

[41] Satellite radio.

[42] The wave of the past.

[43] Serious XM.

[44] The abandoned mall of the entertainment industry.

[45] No, it all makes total sense.

[46] It's like that old saying, why get your milk for free when you could rent the cow for 2199 a month.

[47] Serious subscription, yes.

[48] No, no, I kid, I kid.

[49] I kid, I kid.

[50] I really do kid.

[51] No, Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[52] What a great title.

[53] I just have to ask, why start the show now instead of in middle school when it could have made a difference?

[54] Imagine having friends, Matt, man. I know.

[55] Imagine what they would have been like.

[56] No, I do love the new show.

[57] I love, you know, the banter and the way you've managed.

[58] I am so impressed.

[59] You've managed to abuse your staff in a very kind of way that the audience thinks is ironic is just very impressive.

[60] So impressive.

[61] No, listen, folks, he's a complicated man. Complicated man. The comedian with a dark side.

[62] You know, you're like Paliachi, the clown.

[63] And that's just for how much makeup you have on.

[64] This guy, Conan's in the makeup chair longer than Jim Carrey is the Grinch.

[65] No, I kid.

[66] I kid.

[67] You haven't aged.

[68] You've grown.

[69] You've evolved.

[70] Yes.

[71] You know, back when Conan started, guys, he would nervously talk over all his guests.

[72] But here it is 30 years later.

[73] And now he talks over them with total confidence.

[74] I love this man. I love this man. Conan gave me a career.

[75] He gave me a career back then.

[76] He helped me grow up.

[77] He also helped me through some very hard times.

[78] Like when I walked in on him naked in his dressing room.

[79] cubes like staring into the face of raggedy Andy anyway on a happier note Sona everyone loves Sona the pride of little Armenia you know you know I think I might be part Armenian or Pomeranian either way I have a hairy back I kid that's a stereotype that's an unfair stereotype not all Armenians have hairy backs there's Armenian toddans up to six months.

[80] No hair.

[81] Let's be honest, though.

[82] Let's be honest.

[83] All of us, all of us, oh, Conan, so much.

[84] Conan made me a star.

[85] Conan made Sona a star.

[86] And Conan made Matt somewhat recognizable in the Glendale Public Library.

[87] Seriously, he can't walk into that library without at least one person wondering where they know him from.

[88] All right.

[89] Honestly, honestly.

[90] No offense.

[91] Love everyone in this room.

[92] Even the gray -haired guy in the back.

[93] I'm so honored to be here and so honored to be on this incredible podcast.

[94] For me to poop on!

[95] Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[96] I can tell never we are going to be friends.

[97] Welcome to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[98] Sonam of Sessian joining me. How are you, Sona?

[99] I am.

[100] I'm joining.

[101] That's very nice.

[102] Okay.

[103] You're not talking to a lawyer here.

[104] It's all okay.

[105] And, of course, Matt Gurley.

[106] How are you, Matt Gourley?

[107] I am Matt Gourley.

[108] Okay.

[109] Yes, yes.

[110] I have many questions.

[111] I did want to bring up something right away.

[112] This is a little bit of business.

[113] I don't need to do that.

[114] Usually we just chit -chat and we say stuff and we find our way.

[115] But I have an agenda today.

[116] Oh, okay.

[117] As you guys know, I have a channel over on Sirius XM.

[118] And what's fun is that Sirius XM said, do well by us, kid, and we'll move you up the dial.

[119] I was at 106.

[120] Yeah?

[121] And I was like, I'm at 106 now, but I want to move on up.

[122] Well, guess what?

[123] They've moved me up.

[124] If you're in your car, if you have access to Sirius XM anywhere, Or if you're on the Sirius XM app and you say, man, I'm jonesen for some classic Conan.

[125] Yeah.

[126] Which I often say that myself.

[127] That's how sick I am.

[128] I'll be alone in cones.

[129] I'm jonesin for myself.

[130] You can check me on 104.

[131] I moved up two notches.

[132] Oh, right.

[133] Congrats.

[134] Thanks.

[135] It's now and we decided, let's just call it what it is.

[136] It was Team Coco.

[137] And I was like, let's call it Conan O 'Brien Radio.

[138] Okay.

[139] That's what it is.

[140] So it's Conan O 'Brien Radio.

[141] on 104.

[142] And this is a way that you can listen to me. It's, I mean, it's all the stuff from 30 years of television, but also the podcast plays there, too.

[143] Oh.

[144] And, yeah.

[145] And recipes.

[146] There's no recipes.

[147] Oh, okay.

[148] I shouldn't have said that.

[149] That was, that's a lie and I'll get in trouble for that.

[150] But a lot of fun stuff is going to be on there.

[151] But a new thing we're going to be doing also is taking, I'm going to take some live calls.

[152] Oh, from anyone?

[153] From anybody in the world.

[154] So this is like.

[155] without a net.

[156] Yes, without a net.

[157] People can ask you anything?

[158] Anything they want.

[159] And here's the best part.

[160] I'm not wearing clothes as I take the questions.

[161] Sorry, you said that's the best part.

[162] Yeah.

[163] That's confusing.

[164] Oh, I'm sorry.

[165] The worst and most inappropriate part is that I'm not wearing clothes when I'm asked the questions.

[166] And you can't tell it's radio, but I just want that mental image in everyone's head.

[167] And I have not taken care of myself.

[168] And so that should be in there too.

[169] I mean, really i didn't wasn't starting off with anything great but man oh poor edwardo i'm a manton yeah no edwardo was horrified edwardo got those um those x -men shades that's right like cyclops yeah he wore like a whole cyclops thing so he wouldn't have to see my naked body i don't think you understand how those work you nerd he's the nerd he's the nerd i'm gonna go home I'm filled with shame What happened I made the wrong reference to the X -Men Apparently Cyclops' helmet Does not work as shades Anyway It controls his laser eyes That's right Not a helmet That goes without saying Right?

[170] What is it?

[171] Are you an X -Men expert too?

[172] That's not a helmet, yeah Yeah, it's just It's his glasses But he controls the lasers That come out of his eyes Magneto Thank you That's the helmet Yeah Thank you I mean, don't just look at me that way.

[173] She knows.

[174] Are there a whole, like, they should do things occasionally where they can't find Magneto, and then they go in the kitchen and he stuck the refrigerator.

[175] And his legs are kicking.

[176] That's not how it works.

[177] You don't know how his power works.

[178] What do you mean?

[179] They would control the refrigerator.

[180] The refrigerator doesn't control him.

[181] No, I love the idea that he's like, just about to do something really cool, and then he gets too close to a refrigerator and hortang!

[182] And then someone comes by and puts a to -do list on him.

[183] Buy milk, get more ham.

[184] He's like, God damn it.

[185] You have to know these things.

[186] What if someone calls your radio station and asks you about X -Men stuff?

[187] Well, I will just...

[188] Well, first of all, yeah, that's true.

[189] Ian McKellen might call.

[190] I could just say, I'm sorry, Sir, McCallan.

[191] I'm familiar with your other work, but not this stuff you phone in just for the big check.

[192] That I'm not too familiar with.

[193] But, sir, at the Royal Shakespeare Theater, I'd watch you any day.

[194] Um, anyway, that's my, that's my, I think I agree where we were going with this.

[195] Your call -in show.

[196] Yeah, your call -in show.

[197] It's a call -in show and it's just going to be like this, except instead of you two showbiz phonies, it's real people.

[198] Way to we call in.

[199] We should call in.

[200] I want to call in.

[201] Real people with souls.

[202] You probably have forgotten what that looked like.

[203] Sony, you sold your soul to the devil long ago.

[204] Yeah.

[205] To get this sweet Conan gig.

[206] What's that say about you, though?

[207] Yeah.

[208] You sold your soul.

[209] to a long time ago.

[210] I sure did.

[211] Yeah.

[212] To NBC.

[213] Hundreds of dollars in return.

[214] Have you recorded one of these yet?

[215] Yeah.

[216] Oh, cool.

[217] Was it fun?

[218] It was fun.

[219] It was really good.

[220] Okay.

[221] Mr. Gruse, you were there?

[222] I was there, and you have the power to take the channel live and do these shows when you want.

[223] Yeah.

[224] It's really fun.

[225] What I'm giving him that power?

[226] What I'm finding is that Sirius XM foolishly, it's like they gave a kid with like serious ADD a go cart that can go 900 miles an hour.

[227] And then they gave him some cocaine.

[228] That's what it feels like.

[229] Not that XXM would ever do anything like that.

[230] It's terrible.

[231] But that's how it feels is I get to go live and just talk to people anytime I want.

[232] The first one's available on demand.

[233] What's the phone number?

[234] Why you keep asking me things I don't know the answer to?

[235] Because I want to see you scramble.

[236] Okay.

[237] Oh, what's the molecular weight of strontium?

[238] Just curious.

[239] Do you have that with you?

[240] Why did you bring up Magneto and Cyclops when you don't know anything about the two and them?

[241] I know kind of about some of the X -Men.

[242] Not enough to reference them correctly.

[243] Look, I don't know a lot about the X -Men.

[244] I know that there's a Wolverine.

[245] Yeah, what kind of bones he got?

[246] He's got bones made of something real hard.

[247] Yeah.

[248] And then I know, and I know he can't go through TSA at the airport without causing a real fuss.

[249] Magneto is always getting stuck to a refrigerator, which emasculates him at the worst time.

[250] Cyclops keeps killing his optometrist accidentally.

[251] Now, what seems to be the...

[252] If you wrote an X -Men movie, it would be the most boring movie.

[253] No, it'd be really fun.

[254] It would be pretty funny.

[255] This is my X -Men movie.

[256] But anyway, this is the kind of foolishness that you can hear on Conan O 'Brien Radio 104 on your SXM -D.

[257] dial and check it out because it's a lot of fun to do.

[258] And we should probably move on because we have a singular show today.

[259] This show is very important to me. You're going to love it, but it has personal importance to me because my guest is one of the great writers, one of the great comedy writers of all time.

[260] He's also a comedian.

[261] He wrote on Saturday Night Live.

[262] While I was there, we wrote a lot of things together.

[263] But he was a force to be reckoned with.

[264] And he was also the first head writer on Late Night with Conan O 'Brien and really helped us get launched.

[265] And his DNA is such a part of what we managed to do, unless you're not a fan, in which case you can blame him.

[266] Either way, he's just been such an important part of my life.

[267] He's also the mastermind behind Triumph the Insult Comic Dog and his new movie, Leo, is now streaming on Netflix.

[268] So I'm more than thrilled he's here today.

[269] He's a friend and this conversation has special meaning for me. Robert Smigl, welcome.

[270] This is going to be a shock to people, but I don't think I've seen you whenever we've done that.

[271] All the times we've done it.

[272] All the times we've done it, I look at the puppet and what I see is the top of your curly hair.

[273] From the very beginning, I wouldn't see you.

[274] So to see you, it was even the same with the clutch.

[275] cargos.

[276] I wouldn't see you.

[277] I would see just the lips.

[278] But right now, watching you do it was kind of like revelation to me. And also seeing what?

[279] How much I enjoy it?

[280] Well, I always knew how much you enjoyed it.

[281] Yeah.

[282] But I'm the giggling from the incessant giggling.

[283] Yes.

[284] Because just that's crazy to me that I haven't seen you do it.

[285] That is so weird.

[286] Yeah.

[287] Because I'm always everybody else has now triumph, please, you know, but to see you do it.

[288] I'm always behind you.

[289] Yeah, it kind of was like, there's no Santa Claus now.

[290] You've ruined it for the children.

[291] We have to, uh, there's so much to talk about, but we got to start with the dog.

[292] We just have to.

[293] It was the first thing that I loved about the dog, and it's still the thing I love the most about the dog are the eyes.

[294] I know.

[295] The eyes of the dog.

[296] They're just dead and crazy at the same time.

[297] Everything, you know, the writing has always been spectacular.

[298] A lot of writers help me always.

[299] The voice was always crazy choice.

[300] We should tell people the origin story because it came out of this thing we were doing on the show, which was a talent show.

[301] The idea was maybe this talent show and we'll use whatever we have to do to pretend.

[302] It all came out of this insane, like, directive we created for the show.

[303] And I was a mantra that I drove the writers crazy with, which was just like, we're not going to do any found humor.

[304] Right.

[305] Like I was obsessed with, we're not going to copy Dave Letterman.

[306] because we worship this guy.

[307] Even when we were at Saturday Night Live, we secretly knew that Dave's show was the coolest show on TV.

[308] And as much as I loved Conan and believed in him, I just thought nobody can do stuff that Dave's doing, including remotes, which shows what a shitty producer I was.

[309] I was like, Conan can't do remotes because Dave doesn't.

[310] And I've seen Pat Sejack do it.

[311] And Pat Sejax is good as Conan, and you fail.

[312] Who can follow Sejax?

[313] Yeah.

[314] If Sejack can't do it, how can my best friend do it.

[315] It's impossible.

[316] No, I was, but you know, we had, because I remember, even before the show started, we would talk a lot about, almost like we had these rules.

[317] And, and a lot of it was, there was a, don't do anything that Dave had done, but also, I don't, I didn't think that was as big a worry because we both loved cartoons too much.

[318] No, we were naturally suited to what we wanted We naturally wanted to do very silly, strange things that were, but even when we used to do actual items, and it was the first piece we ever did on the show, which was our shot across the bow.

[319] Yes.

[320] Because Jay would do the thing where he'd go, oh, and if this here, this, it was just real ads from like Sears and Roebuck and this.

[321] And in fairness, that was small town news from Dave.

[322] Yeah.

[323] Jay borrowed.

[324] He borrowed it.

[325] I borrowed it.

[326] I just borrowed it.

[327] It's all fine.

[328] They can have it back.

[329] They can have it back.

[330] He just can't do the tonight show.

[331] But he can have it back anytime he wants.

[332] He can have it any time he wants.

[333] I love doing days.

[334] Dave invented headlines all of a sudden.

[335] Dave and Redmonded.

[336] So he did.

[337] No, no, no, no. You do it.

[338] You do it because I'm, you know, whatever.

[339] But that was the first, first bit we did.

[340] And yeah, Lauren really wanted that on the first show.

[341] Yeah.

[342] Lauren Michaels.

[343] Lauren Michaels from television.

[344] And now from everything.

[345] I'm everywhere I make clothes I'm under I'm right here I'm right here do you have my leisure suit Conan do you really want to go with those sneakers I want to take people back in time to when I first met you would be 1988 the very beginning of 1988 my writing partner Greg Daniels and I get hired to come in to work at S &L were petrified and I remembered finding there was just this natural thing where I gravitated towards you and Bob Odenkirk, who's now the Zodklon von Dam.

[346] I always knew.

[347] We always knew.

[348] We always knew.

[349] That guy's going to have a John Wick franchise.

[350] He's going to have a stuntman.

[351] And then we started naturally just all goofing around together.

[352] And then I think the thing that was really life -changing for me is that you a few years before had done a show in Chicago, a stage show and the writer's strike hit and you and odin kirk were talking yes and you said hey um we might go to chicago and do a stage show with sketches that are too weird to get on snl right and then you guys asked me would i come along i was thrilled i had a 1973 uh plymouth valiant that i i flew in uh la which is where my car was and i drove my car to chicago by myself uh and the car kept over like it's that old movie duel.

[353] Oh, yeah.

[354] It would overheat on hills and I would have to pull it over.

[355] And by the way, I think he was driving also a similar car.

[356] Was he?

[357] I would pull it over and the steam would, and then it would calm down.

[358] And I had things of water and I would pour him in.

[359] And I made my way to Chicago.

[360] And that was where that changed, that changed things for me. Because I thought, I love this.

[361] I love working with these guys.

[362] I love that we're doing a stage show in Chicago.

[363] I loved that summer.

[364] The whole thing was magical.

[365] Yeah, no, I still feel like my years in Chicago before I even got Saturday Night Live or like professionally in some way the happiest years of my whole life.

[366] Just being in total control of your own show and just I love the city of Chicago too, obviously.

[367] But yeah, no, we loved you so much when we met you.

[368] You're such a funny guy.

[369] And Bob and I, like, I thought I was going to get fired from Saturday Night Live in the summer of 86.

[370] I did one season at SNL, and I just barely hung on.

[371] Franken called me over the summer.

[372] It's not looking good.

[373] I don't know.

[374] You know, it's just a lot of people or, you know, it was a hard year.

[375] And, you know, really was funny, Swartzwell.

[376] Remember what he wrote.

[377] Anyway, I'm sorry, it's just, yeah.

[378] So, but then Lauren called me in at the last minute.

[379] but but odin kirk and i were developing a sketch show that summer we were going to call it sketchcom 90 or something and uh and that's like where i first have the idea for the year 2000 sketch which we ended up doing on happy happy good show we did it in chicago in 1988 yeah and we would all stand there in the year 2000 and then we would make these insane predictions about what was then the future yes it was all based on this Jetson's concept in the 60s that 60s kids grew up with, which was the idea that like the space age is coming, like by the year 2000, it had so much mystique to it.

[380] And then as we got closer to the year 2000, it was quite clear that it was going to be.

[381] Well, then the awkward thing was doing it still, I mean, late night, we never, late night, despite everyone's predictions.

[382] Yes.

[383] Kept going and going and going and lasted and actually started, you know, worked.

[384] And And then we're doing it.

[385] And then it is the year 2000.

[386] And the year 2004.

[387] And then we kept thinking, do we need to change like in the distant future?

[388] And I said, no. It's just got to still be in the year 2000.

[389] It's so funny.

[390] And then it's like in 2006, I'm like, it's time to look into the future all the way to the year 2000.

[391] But it's a good problem to have.

[392] Yeah.

[393] So we did that show together.

[394] The one thing I remembered is feeling very much.

[395] Like, you could finish my sentence and I could finish your sentence.

[396] I only connected with a few writers in my years there, like really connected in different ways.

[397] Dana was one of them, Dana Carvey, and as a performer almost, because I love doing silly voices and impressions.

[398] And so we wrote a lot of like musical impression kind of sketches like McLaughlin and Regis and things like that and Johnny Carson.

[399] And then Conan, I connected in a completely different way.

[400] just we had this we just saw people from a distance and we were able to kind of like reduce everybody to a cartoon yes yeah i was because over the years people have said your biggest comedic influences and it's so cool to say well i would watch uh you know old clips of ernie covacs and that really and it's like no it's not true nothing inspired me more than warner brothers cartoons um and uh so that the idea of anything can be alive which then Paul Rubin's use so brilliantly in Peewee's playhouse.

[401] Oh, yeah.

[402] The idea that everything chair is cherry.

[403] This is a thing I've done a thousand times in comedy and I can never pronounce it.

[404] Anthropomorifies.

[405] Anthropomorphize.

[406] And even the word anthropomorphize can be a character.

[407] Hi, I'm anthropomorphizee.

[408] What's up, anthropomorphizee?

[409] But you...

[410] Why are you so damn hard to pronounce?

[411] That's just me, I guess.

[412] What up and up, bo!

[413] But we, so flash forward, I go and do The Simpsons, and then, and it's too hard to explain, but all these crazy things happen.

[414] It's really the equivalent of me being in a cornfield and getting hit by a meteor, but all these things happen where suddenly they say, hey, you're, you're going to replace David Letterman, the guy you idolize, who I said many times cannot be replaced.

[415] I said it's impossible to replace him, so I pity the guy who replaces him.

[416] I'm on a record saying that.

[417] And I was salivating to replace him.

[418] Yeah, we had totally different dreams because he was hired to produce this show.

[419] Yeah.

[420] But his dream was not that.

[421] Like you say, you did happy, happy, good show, and you were always the funniest guy in the room at SNL.

[422] And I was more like, you know, broody Tom Jonovich, you know, just brooding, brooding writer.

[423] Right.

[424] My hero was like Sylvester Pat Weaver, the guy who created the Today Show and the Tonight show.

[425] I love the idea.

[426] I think that's the saddest thing I've ever heard anybody say.

[427] I was a pathetic nerd.

[428] Blair doesn't.

[429] Did you have a big poster of of Pat Weaver?

[430] I do.

[431] I do understand.

[432] He understands.

[433] No, I would go to the museum of broadcasting or whatever, radio and television and revel in these old like Dave Garroway talking to a chimp on the today's show in the 50s.

[434] But what was interesting is so they came, they said to me, okay, you're going to do this.

[435] And I said it then, say it now, I said, I can do this if I do it with Robert.

[436] Yeah, yeah.

[437] I said, I can do this if I do it with Robert Smigel, but I can't do it if it's not with Robert Smigel.

[438] And I don't think I ever heard that.

[439] I know you said, you told me you wanted me to do it.

[440] I know, I didn't tell you I wanted you to do it.

[441] I said, you have to do it.

[442] And then I remembered there was stuff about, well, Robert's contract, we're not sure.

[443] And I was -oh, Lauren just didn't want me to leave.

[444] No, I know, but I was yelling at NBC.

[445] Give him every, you know, like give him, take stuff from me and give it.

[446] Like, we have to do this together because I knew then I had a shot.

[447] And it's true.

[448] Don't get self -conscious because I'm complimenting you.

[449] Take the paper away.

[450] That's my job.

[451] We had very little time to put the show together.

[452] I mean, it stuns me now that I think by the time, by the time I was done doing the affiliates dance and everything, I think it was June.

[453] And the show had to be on the air in September 13th of 19th.

[454] It's June and there's just a big empty space where Dave's studio was and we had no writers.

[455] We had nothing, but I knew Robert and I will just start, we'll go and we worked our at, we didn't sleep.

[456] We worked like crazy all summer long.

[457] It was the best.

[458] And so is my dream job and I was working with you.

[459] It was just like the best guy could work with.

[460] And I have to confess when he first told me, and you know this, you remember the conversation.

[461] I'm sure when you first told me, Lorne wants me to audition, there was a part of me that was, like, scared.

[462] Like, hey, guess what?

[463] Me too.

[464] But I'll remember this very clearly, you were like, gee, I don't know, because if.

[465] That's a hard way to break into show business.

[466] That's what I said to you.

[467] If you, it's going to be hard for anybody.

[468] I mean, the only person it wouldn't have been hard for is, I think, Gary Shandling.

[469] Gary Shandling was a name they were.

[470] Oh, yeah.

[471] And if he had done it, it would have been absolutely brilliant from day one.

[472] Of course.

[473] Because he's Gary Shandling.

[474] But everyone else would have taken some knocks for not being.

[475] Dave.

[476] But I was going to take a lot of knocks because complete unknown and no experience.

[477] And I remember so clearly, I remember where I was.

[478] I was living in this little apartment on Weatherly.

[479] And I had this tiny little nook.

[480] I had a phone and a phone machine back when you had a phone machine.

[481] And I'm talking to you and you're sort of saying, I'm saying, yeah, they're thinking maybe I should audition because they're looking for the right person.

[482] And Lauren said, you know, he's got a look.

[483] And maybe.

[484] He's a look.

[485] And he's very polite.

[486] And he's got the hair and the funny first name and it may be that's a thing and so um and he'll be cheap and he'll oh trust me you'll get him for nothing and so they uh my salary non -negotiably and just because i'm saying you're going to save money on him nothing so i remember talking to you and you were rightly I was shumbly.

[487] You were shumbly.

[488] You were saying, yeah, I don't know.

[489] I don't know.

[490] And then in the back when I heard like a Charlie Brown parent voice go, and I said, what was that?

[491] And you said, oh, that was Michelle.

[492] Because, you know, your wife and I, and I, and not a wife at the time, girlfriend at the time, I think.

[493] And you said, and she said, wow, blah, blah, blah.

[494] And I said, what she's saying?

[495] And she's saying, and you said, Michelle said, he's got nothing to lose.

[496] Right.

[497] And then you said, huh, I think that's kind of true.

[498] Like, why not?

[499] And then, of course, I thought, yeah, I guess I could be a national joke.

[500] But that was the fear, the first year.

[501] The fear was the first year was who's the famous national joke?

[502] I have to say also that like, so then I did hesitate a tiny bit.

[503] It was like a few hours.

[504] I was like, wow, man, I don't know, man, if he can do it.

[505] Just he's never been on TV.

[506] And then I just thought to myself.

[507] So like, you know, we both love performing.

[508] And I got to do a few things on Weekend Update.

[509] I did.

[510] And Conan was already with The Simpsons.

[511] And I just remembered, like, this guy helped me for hours with my stupid weekend update feature, the moron's perspective.

[512] And I'm like, I'm hesitating.

[513] It's the fucking asshole.

[514] And I called you back.

[515] And I was like, yeah.

[516] Yeah.

[517] I mean, this is my buddy.

[518] But then I had, I never once celebrated.

[519] Like, I end up, I audition.

[520] They think about it.

[521] And then they give it to me. And never, I was always scared and always filled with the sense of responsibility.

[522] And here it is now over 30.

[523] years later.

[524] And I have never once, I don't think I celebrate anything.

[525] I mean, I don't, but I just was always like, well, we'll see, we'll see.

[526] And still, now I'm 60 and I'm going, we'll see.

[527] We'll see.

[528] We'll see how it happens.

[529] But I think it was appropriate not to celebrate getting that show because it was, it was not like getting cast in an amazing role.

[530] It felt to me in a very Catholic way, like this is a test and you're going to have to walk through hell.

[531] And then that's what happened.

[532] That is what happened.

[533] But I remember, so then he had that audition, which was incredible.

[534] I mean, I guess it was, and then I asked him about it.

[535] And he said, well, I had nothing to lose.

[536] And he was like in front of, I don't know how many people were in that room.

[537] I don't know.

[538] It was a tiny, no, it was a good size.

[539] I don't know.

[540] A hundred people, maybe.

[541] Yeah, yeah.

[542] Yeah.

[543] And he interviewed Jason Alexander and Mimi Rogers.

[544] And his Mimi Rogers interview was just like professional, hysterical.

[545] And then I just turned on a dime.

[546] I was like, this guy's going to be enormous.

[547] And then he was.

[548] so funny and hilarious when we assembled writers, we all got incredibly overconfidence.

[549] We're like, everybody's going to have a pompadour within six months.

[550] I really believe this.

[551] I was like, everybody's going to want to have long, skinny pants.

[552] I was positive.

[553] And so everyone's going to be one of have kind of like ambivalent, ambiguous gender.

[554] It was a good thing, though.

[555] He's kind of a guy, but also a little bit of a girl.

[556] But for his, he stayed nervous, but the rest of us were so confident.

[557] And it was great because it made us try everything.

[558] We were fearless.

[559] We tried every idea.

[560] And obviously some went to shit.

[561] But still, the proudest achievement of my whole career easily is how much stuff we did generate.

[562] If you look at the first two years, that's the thing that I'm stunned.

[563] Well, even if you worked at the first three weeks, there's so much material that you did forever.

[564] Yeah.

[565] On the late night show.

[566] the clutch cargo in the year 2000, the actual items.

[567] There's so many things that, but then we kept building on that.

[568] We never stopped trying to try new things.

[569] And I remember people used to, who were in the business would say, I mean, I remember even David Letterman saying, that's insane.

[570] Because we were basically trying to do Saturday Live every night.

[571] Yes, which is impossible.

[572] And then finally, you could smell the smoke of like the gears grinding.

[573] Yes.

[574] People going insane.

[575] no one's sleeping it's funny because like so many i think i've told you this story so like in 19 and it was a lot of it stemmed from people on the staff who just didn't believe in us some people a lot some people really believed you know like franks back there and paula and and um but then uh you know like so in 1999 or 90 or 2009 i visited the fallad set and yeah because back then when we did it people were like every night live we're doing over here I visited the Fallon set, and everybody was like all perky and happy.

[576] And they were doing really ambitious shit when he first started in late 90s.

[577] They were doing all these detailed film pieces.

[578] And literally, crew member said to me, it's like every night live.

[579] They were super excited about it.

[580] Because Jimmy had been on television for like 10 years.

[581] Yeah.

[582] It's interesting.

[583] You said that one thing I wanted to bring up was last year.

[584] We lost one of the most important people that ever worked on the show, Bill.

[585] Yes.

[586] Bill Toll was a legendary prop master who looked, just see if you want a visual.

[587] Bill Toll started with us and was with us for years and years and years and years.

[588] And Bill Toll looked like a Nordic god.

[589] I mean, very tall, incredible build, incredibly handsome face.

[590] And then we started using him in sketches so you might be, you could look him up later on.

[591] Yeah, later on.

[592] But long, long white hair and he looked like he could you could put him in a Thor costume and he could say you trespass here i mean he had that amazing voice too yeah but he would do anything he would do anything and at that point in the show like you know sometimes it felt like we were almost at war because there were people on the staff who just were like why are we doing this fucking key screen behind the band or whatever weird thing we were trying all this weird stuff trying all this stuff and then there were people like Frank, like who would do anything and think of idea, I got something for Alex Rocco, you're going to love it, whatever.

[593] And Bill told, I remember, I'll just tell one quick Bill story.

[594] Like, so we, when the Rangers won the Stanley Cup in 1994.

[595] And so I have this idea that have like a dancing or running around Stanley Cup, like a live Stanley.

[596] There's anthropomorphized.

[597] The Stanley Cup has come to life and is dancing around in our studio.

[598] And of course, because I was, you know, a big baby, I wanted a giant Stanley Cup, but to have like tidy whiteys visible at the bottom.

[599] So the legs are really cute, but he's wearing tidy whities and it's kind of disturbing.

[600] But I had this idea literally at like two in the morning and like Brian Leach from the Rangers was going to be on the show the next day.

[601] And so I call, you know, and the writers were all there laughing about this.

[602] And I call like the wardrobe department, like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[603] That's not going to happen.

[604] I didn't do that.

[605] Then I call Bill Toll.

[606] He's like, okay, yeah, okay.

[607] So we'll, yeah, you want me to build like a whole thing?

[608] Okay, so it's like eight levels, how many levels are there?

[609] And it's like three in the morning.

[610] And so he gets right to work.

[611] And then the only thing that he can't figure out is the Stanley Cup has like this bowl, this big silver bowl on top.

[612] So Bill Tall calls the Rainbow Room, finds out that they have a silver bowl.

[613] He goes up there.

[614] Which is, by the way, for anyone who doesn't know, one of the most swanky, Swanky, yes.

[615] Like incredible elite places.

[616] People, rich people have their weddings in the rainbow run.

[617] So he goes to the rainbow.

[618] He goes to the rainbow.

[619] You guys got a silver bowl.

[620] I need it for a guy wearing underwear.

[621] Stanley Cup thing.

[622] And so the guy, he gets the manager of the place and like, well, we kind of need that ball.

[623] Listen, what can I do?

[624] How can I get the silver bowl?

[625] And literally, the guy says, well, there's a kind of hot security guard downstairs.

[626] and if you can get me her number set me up so I can call her I'll give you the bowl so he goes down to the ground floor of course he does talks to the security guard lady says there's a guy in the rainbow room and uh and he gets the number and he goes back upstairs and comes back with the bowl and this is like on no sleep no sleep and this is and the whole point is that like that was the spirit of the show that was the spirit of the show and like uh chilemi's here another long time.

[627] I call Chills the Warrior because he still, I shoot things now.

[628] I'm in different countries for this thing I'm doing for HBO Max.

[629] Yeah, he's another one.

[630] Chills, he was there.

[631] He was there.

[632] He gets it.

[633] But one of the things was really, I'll say this, and then because we have so much to talk about.

[634] No, but we were always, no, no, I'm sorry.

[635] We were always, this is just going to have to be a seven -hour episode, but this is what I remember about Bill Toll was we needed some kind of crazy -looking thing that basically was going to look like an animal skeleton but it had a clock for a head or something.

[636] And so at rehearsal, they reveal this thing and it looks kind of perfect.

[637] And I'm like, wow, how did you fake this animal skeleton?

[638] And Bill's like, oh, yeah, well, I went upstate New York.

[639] I knew a guy who, he has a farm and he told me where all the animals were buried.

[640] So he went out at night with a shovel and dug around until he found a dead sheep and he dug up all the bones and reassembled it for the pro.

[641] It's just beyond belief.

[642] I mean, literally, he's a ghoul in the night.

[643] You know, the giant moon behind him in a silhouette of him digging and then assembling bones.

[644] And then he just talks about this matter -of -factly on, it's the best episode of Inside Conan.

[645] You should listen to it, Bill and his partner, John Rao.

[646] And, you know, the whole point is that, like, it was such a struggle that first year.

[647] It was the best job, the most exciting job I ever had.

[648] But it was such a struggle.

[649] The network doubting us.

[650] And we had been, you know what I remembered very clearly, if there are five things you need to have a successful television show.

[651] Yeah.

[652] Meaning the networks behind you, the critics like you, the numbers are strong.

[653] And then like a couple of things, we had none of those things.

[654] We had absolutely, I remembered sitting around going, let's see, what are the things you need?

[655] And then making a list of the five and going, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

[656] All we had was a great show.

[657] We did have a great host and a great host and a great sidekick.

[658] was really nice, was that we made it to that first summer and suddenly colleges got out.

[659] Yeah.

[660] And all of a sudden, we had these audiences that were fine.

[661] And if we did something really funny, they would laugh.

[662] But it was always touch and go.

[663] And then suddenly, I walked out, it would have been June of 1994 after this slog, this crazy slog, which started the summer before and went all the way into the following.

[664] So it was a solid year of no sleeping, always worrying, people on the street telling me to drop dead you know Oh my God Those were network executives Yeah It's just I thought it was bad for him But They were worried I didn't get the message It'll make him stronger It's okay He's over there He's in Central Park South Get him Thanks Lauren No problem It'll toughen him up Now about my money My getaway car Needs a better driver But I remember that walking out one day to do the warm up because I would do the warm up before the show and I came out to do the warm up and the minute the crowd saw me they were, yes!

[665] Whoa!

[666] And I was looking behind me. Like, is Jerry Seinfeld standing behind me?

[667] What's happening?

[668] This was, it was really spectacular.

[669] You know what else is interesting?

[670] All these people who were criticizing you, I realize now they were not the audience.

[671] But they were 11.

[672] Well, we did have Dave who came on you the show.

[673] Yeah, Dave.

[674] that was the biggest thing that ever happened yeah that was february of 94 that was huge yes and he had the he said it backstage and then he said it to your face which is what really mattered on television how great the show was yeah and that changed a lot of took a lot of pressure off the network but the last thing i want to say about bill just in general bill tall bill tall yeah just that like for people who work on a show like this or any movie set you could have the opinion that you know my job's not that important And there's a finite amount of effect that I can have on a show.

[675] But, like, it's not true.

[676] If people are supportive of the creative people at the top and they give off that vibe that they believe in you and that they'll do anything for you like Bill and other people from that stuff, it makes an enormous difference.

[677] Yeah, and I say, you know, and not to embarrass him because I know he's right outside this door because he still works with us, but, you know, Jason Shalemi, who you mentioned, is the same kind of person.

[678] who started with us as an intern, but I swear to God, if Jason thought it was, if he sensed that it was important for us doing something comedically, whether it's now for the podcast or for a travel show I'm doing for HBO Max, whatever, and it involved him getting shot at.

[679] It's just Max now.

[680] Yeah.

[681] Oh, is it?

[682] Okay, whatever.

[683] I like to throw the HBO in to let people know.

[684] That it's actually quality.

[685] That it's not pornography.

[686] Yeah.

[687] When you just say Max, people think, oh, well, it's people fucking.

[688] So I can whack off to this?

[689] Yeah.

[690] I've never been able to lock off the corner.

[691] This is exciting.

[692] He's really evolved, like they say.

[693] His porn is so creative.

[694] All the furniture in the room is talking, too.

[695] The guy and the girl are going at it, and then the couch is like, yeah, what a schlong.

[696] Quiet, couchy.

[697] I'm losing my concentration.

[698] I like that porn with Anthrop from Ortho.

[699] Wow, he's really giving it to her.

[700] Shut up, alarm clock.

[701] The pizzas, wow.

[702] The pizza's rubbing its pepperoni nipples.

[703] Oh, I love it.

[704] New meaning to the word food porn.

[705] Yeah, exactly.

[706] But no, if Jason thought it was important.

[707] And, you know, I was just with him, we were shooting in South America, and he's like, I think if he thought this was important to me or somehow important of the comedy, but it involved him running across a firing line where actual ammunition is being shot, he would do it, which is my point is that he's stupid.

[708] No. He's a moron.

[709] He's complete.

[710] My point is that it's...

[711] He makes you, like, the last day I was on the show, I had to give a speech, which was painful as can be.

[712] I loved the show so much.

[713] And I remember saying, I thanked everybody, and I said there are people in this room who have said, Conan and I have inspired them to do great work.

[714] And I just wanted to tell everybody, you inspired us.

[715] And that's really true.

[716] A guy like Jason, a guy like Bill.

[717] So many people who...

[718] They have your back.

[719] And it makes all the difference in the world.

[720] And I do think in light of, it's a great message, too, that people, you know, in the light of all these strikes and everything, and people say, well, it just comes down to commerce and money and, yes, is money part of it?

[721] Of course it is.

[722] But when you see the level of, when people get excited creatively and then other people around them, whether it's people working cameras, pulling cables, but they're excited too, and they're kind of going the extra mile to make it happen.

[723] Such a difference.

[724] And then it becomes kind of like a religious experience in a weird way.

[725] It becomes spiritual and you're making something and then you get the money.

[726] And you don't share it with anybody.

[727] Maybe.

[728] He's, and Jason, you know, now you're making me think about Jason's predecessor, Mr. Jordan Slansky.

[729] Who I always credit, there would, Triumph remotes wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Jordan.

[730] because the first time we did one we were never going to get it.

[731] Let me back it up just a little before which is you triumph comes out of this sketch doing on the show and you come in with this dog whose talent is he's an insult comic and then I think what we have to do which I have to give you credit for two things.

[732] The choice of the puppet is exceptional and like I say the fact that the puppets has kind of a realistic face but the eyes are so.

[733] The eyes are dead.

[734] And so he says these jokes and stares.

[735] And I think not unlike why I often found Norm McDonald's so funny is Norm could make his eyes go dead and just kind of stare at you after he said a joke.

[736] And I do think that Triumph has that, I look into those puppet eyes and I can watch it forever.

[737] I know.

[738] But the other thing is the voice because anybody else doing it who had that idea of, oh yeah, it's a dog who's an insult comic, would have done Borshbelt.

[739] hey you over there what do you suck you know Armenia hey well Armenia is that even a country sounds like a tiny diarrhea you know what that's a good one right don't write it down yeah that's really good Armenia diarrhea side of yeah but anyway what I'm saying is that's what anybody else would have done Robert is the only person I know who would have done I think it's an old Russian Jewish woman am I correct I had grandparents that were first immigrants, you know, who escaped Russia during, and they actually emigrated to China first.

[740] They'd be so proud of what you've done.

[741] We must escape persecution.

[742] So that the future generations may be able to watch to witness a realistic looking puppet, have sex with a live animal.

[743] On television.

[744] And she's like, oh, yes.

[745] What is this television?

[746] Well, it's going to be a thing and starting with Milton Byrne.

[747] They're trying to kill us, but if we can escape, then one, maybe one of our grandchildren will contribute turn us into our horny puppets.

[748] I have to credit my wife.

[749] So, because she's the one who, so I found triumph on this rack of whimsical puppets that were when we were shooting, when we were newlyweds and we were hunting for furniture at a country store, And we saw this, and the puppet was so funny to me, these dog puppets, and there was a sheep and a cat.

[750] So I immediately put on one of the dog puppets, sniffed her ass with it in the room, in the, in the furniture store.

[751] And of course, she found it funny because she's the perfect woman for me. And then she surprised me like in February, like two months later after we were married with like seven of these puppets.

[752] And that's what gave me the idea for this Westminster thing.

[753] And like Dave was having Westminster dogs run up and down the aisles of the Ed Sullivan.

[754] in theater.

[755] Very Dave, very found humor.

[756] Yeah.

[757] And I was like, so our version of that.

[758] Our version is make it up.

[759] Yeah.

[760] Yeah.

[761] So that's well, so I remember that that that and then I remember early on before there were remotes, we'd have guests on and Triumph would roast them.

[762] Yes.

[763] It's like catharsis for the audience.

[764] Yeah.

[765] And and and so Triumph would be over behind this little stand and then and I would have interviewed the guest already and then they go after the guest and I'll never forget, guess would say yes to it, not knowing what it was.

[766] Simon Cowell is on.

[767] It's the height of...

[768] The first couple of years of American Idol.

[769] Maybe the first year of American Idol.

[770] He was like the biggest thing.

[771] He was huge.

[772] And he comes on the show and we said, do you mind?

[773] And you went, oh, no, you know, please, whatever, whatever is you chaps do, go ahead.

[774] I'll just be here with my too tight t -shirt.

[775] And so you're ripping into him.

[776] And he's watching.

[777] And then when it's over, I say, we'll take a break.

[778] We'll be right back.

[779] and he turns to me and he's covered in sweat.

[780] He was covered in sweat and he said, that was rough.

[781] Like a guy who had just been beaten with a stick.

[782] And then later I saw him afterward and I was like, was that okay?

[783] And he had come to understand by then.

[784] He was like, no, this is, this would be good for me in some way would be able to show that I can now fit myself.

[785] And blood came out of his, a tear with blood in it.

[786] But then, you, you know, go to do a remote Westminster Dog Show.

[787] And of course, I think Chalemi goes with you.

[788] No, it was that, the first one was Jordan.

[789] Was Jordan.

[790] And we couldn't get in first because apparently Andy had done something at Westminster that they didn't like.

[791] So they weren't going to let us in.

[792] And I was like, okay, I guess we'll never do it.

[793] And if I'd never done it, maybe I would have never done a remote because that was the obvious one to do.

[794] Sweeney suggested, why don't you go to Westminster and hit on these dogs.

[795] And hump real dogs.

[796] Yeah, because I've been, well, I've been sort of doing it on the show.

[797] But here's all these dogs, and I loved it.

[798] But so then Jordan, like, creates this scam.

[799] Like, we gave us, he printed out all these fake NBC passes.

[800] He broke the law.

[801] He broke the law.

[802] And he figured out a side entrance.

[803] And he said, it's not technically, it's not technically deception because we actually are NBC employees.

[804] You know, it was very Jordan rationalization.

[805] Yes, yes.

[806] But we got in.

[807] And it's all because of him that these remotes exist.

[808] We tip our cap now to a man I, uh, professionally loathe.

[809] I've made a career, a fifth career, out of being irritated by Jordan Slansky.

[810] But no, in real life, he saved the day.

[811] And then, you know, remotes come fast and furious.

[812] And then the iconic crazy Star Wars remote where there's not, it was all still, again, before the internet, like things couldn't go viral.

[813] But remember the night we played that, the audience screaming and going wild and thinking, if there's only some way this can be replayed for everybody throughout all time.

[814] And fortunately, now there is.

[815] No, but actually, it was the first thing on the show that did.

[816] Because before YouTube, there was something called Eye Film.

[817] Blair will know this because he's pathetic nerd, right?

[818] Yes, that's true.

[819] Okay.

[820] That is why everybody even knew it back then.

[821] It was the first thing on the show that was like put on Eye Film or whatever it was called.

[822] And it was the happiest experience I ever had doing Triumph because everybody was, like, I don't really like making people unhappy.

[823] I know it's good.

[824] television sometimes especially if it's like a person nobody likes but it's so much more fun these guys were fans of you yeah and they knew what triumph was it was like they wanted to meet triumph and it was like when i met don rickle what makes it so nice is that because i'm the same way if i think i've hurt someone's feelings yeah i don't sleep for like two days if i think they really got you know and so i'm just saying that to appear nice but you must never sleep i sleep i sleep Like a baby.

[825] No, you know how he solved that?

[826] It was like an aversion therapy.

[827] He decided to be mean to everybody.

[828] And that way, he got numb to it.

[829] Yeah, yeah, my son, I'm just, you know, everybody.

[830] And so, but I think the magic of that was all of the people in line who you're making fun of for being, never seeing a woman or, you know, being, which button do you push to have your mother come pick you up, whatever.

[831] All of those, they're all, all loving it.

[832] And that's the key.

[833] And they're just delighted.

[834] And now they're part of history.

[835] They're like the funniest straight men that you could ask for.

[836] And the fact that they're enjoying it just made it like just a mutual pooper and poopee.

[837] United as one.

[838] There are.

[839] It's just beautiful.

[840] It's a beautiful thing.

[841] It's a symbiotic relationship.

[842] There are so many.

[843] You know, I mean, this is the thing where it gets tricky because I could reminisce with you about all of this for maybe 15 hours and we would only scratch the surface.

[844] But something, I just want to make sure that I get in here, that I state that you've gone on.

[845] You know, we worked together all those years and then we've continued to work together.

[846] We keep, we come back together.

[847] We work.

[848] We just did.

[849] I mean, one of the highlights of my recent life was you and I wrote Hans and Frans musical together with Dana Carvey and Kevin Nealan.

[850] And then it just got lost to time because it was never made.

[851] And of course, foolishly, we wrote it so that Schwarzenegger, rather than being a cameo, is in nine -tenths of the movie.

[852] It was the best.

[853] It was nice to see that come around.

[854] And you've been doing all this amazing work in comedy for all these years.

[855] But I have to celebrate that Leo, you wrote this movie, Leo, and it's an Adam Sandler animated film.

[856] and I saw it the other night and I was completely blown away.

[857] It is obviously funny which I knew it would be but it's also so sweet and so nuanced and has a great message and I thought well this is a classic and then I think yesterday I was told that it's the biggest animated hit already that Netflix has ever had like it's a complete smash and I was practically crying I'm so happy for you and for Adam I wrote both to you guys.

[858] Adam's lawyer got it.

[859] Sandy Wernick got it.

[860] I don't know.

[861] I think we got a red line this thing.

[862] Let me give it a look to the lawyers.

[863] And then we got it right there.

[864] He was really funny because I called him.

[865] He ended up calling me after I wrote him.

[866] No, no, not San Diego.

[867] But Adam, after I told him, I texted him.

[868] I said that, Robert.

[869] I'm so happy for Robert.

[870] I'm so happy for you.

[871] It's so well done.

[872] And he calls me up.

[873] and he was like asking me about how my kids are doing and stuff like that.

[874] And then he was doing this whole riff because my son is very gifted at computers and he loves computer engineering.

[875] So he's looking at a lot of engineering schools and a lot of like super scientific schools.

[876] And Adam was like saying, Goni, I'll write him a letter.

[877] Those people love me. And I went as a joke.

[878] And I was like, it's okay, Adam.

[879] He's like, it's already done.

[880] I took care of it, buddy.

[881] I'm going to send it to every engineering school.

[882] And I'm saying, No, Adam.

[883] No, Adam.

[884] He's like, these are my people.

[885] I was crying.

[886] I was laughing so hard.

[887] Don't worry, Connie.

[888] He's going to be great.

[889] Oh, he's the best.

[890] Yeah, he's the best.

[891] God damn.

[892] I was, you know, it's so funny because he does, the voice he does in this for Leo is so unique.

[893] It's kind of Bernie.

[894] Yeah.

[895] It's, yes, it's Bernie Brilstein, the famous manager that we all knew and worked with.

[896] What I do know is people don't understand that as in animation, the voice is everything.

[897] Like the voice is more important than the actual animation because it's the soul of who the person is, I think, in a lot of ways.

[898] And that voice that he does is so unique and it really works beautifully.

[899] Yeah, it's like cranky and warm at the same time.

[900] Yeah.

[901] It's funny because like when I had written it and we were about to do a table reading and I had told him a couple of days early, I kind of seeing like a Peterfall kind of thing.

[902] And then like, right before the read -through, he says, eh, buddy, I think I want to do Bernie.

[903] I was like, oh, okay, go for it.

[904] And then he killed it with the Bernie.

[905] And it was just a great instinct.

[906] It's very funny because Bernie, I taught him years ago, he never fucking know.

[907] When we cast Alf, remember, remember during Lookwell?

[908] So Bernie was an executive producer of Lookwell because Conan was with Brillstein.

[909] And let me back up because I just, sometimes we go fast.

[910] Yeah, yeah.

[911] And I want to bring people up to speed.

[912] But Robert came to me once when we were at SNL, and he said, because we both loved the 60s, Batman.

[913] And he said to me, you know, I'm, like, he had this idea.

[914] We've got to do something with Adam West.

[915] And we started talking about it.

[916] And he's saying, like, him, you know, he's an out of work actor, but he solves crimes.

[917] He still thinks he can solve crime.

[918] But he's, because he made these shows, he thinks he can solve crime.

[919] So he and you and I sat down and pretty quickly wrote this script.

[920] Yes.

[921] And we call the guy Ty Lookwell.

[922] And that was your name.

[923] Yeah, that was great.

[924] And then we go on this quest to get Adam West to do it, and he does it.

[925] We make it.

[926] There's a lot of, that's a whole saga in and of itself because no one wanted us to make it, the network.

[927] But then finally.

[928] Tartikov got it.

[929] But Brandon Tardikov said, I get it.

[930] But then he left immediately.

[931] So anyway.

[932] And Lauren's getaway.

[933] Anyway.

[934] And so we make this pilot and we deliver it to the network.

[935] And you and I were so excited because this is, we're on SNL.

[936] This is a bunch of years before late night.

[937] We really think this is our ticket to the top.

[938] We love it.

[939] think it's really ahead of its time.

[940] It's so cool.

[941] And Bernie, because you can do the voice, but I'll never forget this.

[942] So we're over at Bernie Brillstein's company.

[943] He's this big guy, looks like he's a Jewish Santa Claus.

[944] Yes.

[945] And he's...

[946] Santa Claus Cowardly Lion.

[947] Yeah, Santa Claus Cowardly Lion.

[948] He wears all black because he thinks it's slimming.

[949] Sliming.

[950] It's fucking slimming.

[951] It's fucking slimming.

[952] So anyway, we're in his office and he's telling us this thing is going to go through the roof.

[953] Adam is going to test through the fucking room.

[954] It's going to be huge.

[955] It's going to be big.

[956] It's going to be he's in the midst of this long rant about how he knows show business, he knows TV, and this thing's going to go all the way, and you guys have to start figuring out now which mansions you want to live in in Beverly Hills.

[957] He's going on and on and on when his assistant says a phone call from the network, Bernie goes, put it through.

[958] Rick Ludwin, yeah.

[959] So they put it through, and all we can hear is Bernie side of it.

[960] So Robert and I are just flying high, and he gets on the phone, and the first thing he goes, what?

[961] What the fuck?

[962] And then.

[963] And then he starts.

[964] sabotage This is the best Because he also managed Lauren Michaels Yeah And Lauren Michaels had two projects Lookwell Because he was You know And he also had A Jack Handy pilot Based on Toonsis The Cat It was a collection of Jack Handy sketches And Tunis was the glue to it And so Rick Ludwin Is telling Bernie That yeah Yeah look well Didn't test Terrific with our crew And That's fucking insane Adam Disaffir fucking genius fucking script.

[965] And then what do you fucking say?

[966] Tunesis.

[967] Yeah, yeah, we're thinking of Tunesis might make it.

[968] Tunesis might make the September Scales.

[969] Are you fucking kidding me?

[970] That thing is going to fucking tank.

[971] You're going to put that thing out.

[972] And that's his client too.

[973] It's also his client.

[974] But Bernie didn't have, but Burlstein Gray wasn't producing Tunesis.

[975] Well, it doesn't matter.

[976] No, it matters to Bernie.

[977] Lawrence's big meal ticket.

[978] And he's like, I know.

[979] Long can't find his ass.

[980] with three hands and it's just but anyway the point is you and I are sitting there these kids and all we hear is what and the first thing he said was it's the first thing you screened after lunch people are digesting I never forget sitting there listening to that fucking sue mingers told me this 45 years ago you fucking idiots have no fucking clue So we, I saw you today for the first time in person since Leo came out.

[981] And I felt emotional because I'm so happy for you.

[982] You're my friend.

[983] But also, I was saying you and I have collaborated on so much stuff.

[984] And there's a lot of noise out there.

[985] And I'm very proud of the stuff we've worked on together.

[986] But I saw this thing and I thought, oh, this is going to be a movie that kids are watching and with their parents because it's really funny.

[987] But they're going to be watching it like 50 years from now.

[988] No, I don't know how.

[989] They'll be putting drops in their eyes and watching it.

[990] But no, I just, it's very nice.

[991] It's really, I think it's lasting.

[992] I think it's a classic.

[993] And I was just delighted.

[994] Just really delighted for you because Jesus, you know you deserve it.

[995] It feels like the first thing I've ever done that everyone agreed on at the same time.

[996] Like, you know, our show was amazing and we loved it more than any.

[997] thing.

[998] And there was an audience that got it.

[999] There's always, and I've had, you know, and then little segments that I've done, like the cartoons on SNL, but any independent project that I've done, even the ones that were successful, like the Zohan or Hotel Transylvania, it wasn't a critical success.

[1000] This is like everything.

[1001] Everything's coming together.

[1002] Yeah, it's never happened to me in my whole career.

[1003] So it's like, it's just weird.

[1004] But I love it.

[1005] And I'm very excited.

[1006] And yeah, I'm very happy.

[1007] And it was, I really.

[1008] And it's four years.

[1009] I know.

[1010] You've been working this for four years.

[1011] You've been telling me about it.

[1012] And I've been saying, enough with the talking.

[1013] Where is it?

[1014] I know.

[1015] It was maddening.

[1016] And I would like go on Zoom meetings.

[1017] Like, you know, because like first you animate it to like black and white drawings.

[1018] Animatics.

[1019] And we tested it and it did great.

[1020] And it's like, great.

[1021] Now make it do the whole thing over it.

[1022] And that was like the creative process working with board artists.

[1023] Now you're converting the whole thing to 3D.

[1024] and it's almost like, okay, we just want it to be as good as the animatic now.

[1025] Like, we've made most of the creative decisions.

[1026] And it's just so technical.

[1027] And, like, sometimes there'd be Zoom meetings where my other two directors, like my notes were usually about acting.

[1028] And they'd be like, Leo's tail, it has a little bump.

[1029] It's off model and shit like that.

[1030] I would literally, just to be sane, I would, like, mute myself on the Zoom and start making animal noises.

[1031] Just like, what do you think, cow?

[1032] And I would send it to friends with like they would hear the meeting in the background.

[1033] The cow doesn't like the idea.

[1034] Sorry.

[1035] You know, we, the other thing I should point out is you write the music in this.

[1036] There's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of really great songs in it.

[1037] Oh, that's nice.

[1038] And, but it's, it was fun for me because you and I, one thing we always had in common was we always wanted sketches to turn into songs.

[1039] I know.

[1040] And so we, we thought sketches should have a theme song.

[1041] So when we were working on Mr. Short -Term Memory, we wanted it to have a song.

[1042] And Lauren was like, can't it just be, because Don Pardo for years would just be on now, another episode of Short -term Memory Man. And we literally said, can't it just be an hour another episode?

[1043] And we were like, no, it has to be.

[1044] And Oden Kirk and Greg Daniels were working on this too.

[1045] But we wanted, we were like, no, no, it has to be a song.

[1046] Mr. Short -term Memory, he shouldn't have sat under that pear tree.

[1047] Yes.

[1048] And it's Tom Hacks sitting under a pear tree and a pair drops and hits him on the head.

[1049] Now he has no memory.

[1050] He'll frustrate you so, but he'll never know because he's Mr. Short -term.

[1051] It was one of those things.

[1052] It was like the first one.

[1053] Yeah, I love the elegance of that first line.

[1054] But then that became like a plague on the show.

[1055] Like everybody started putting jingles at the top of every character.

[1056] Everything had to have a jingle.

[1057] Everything had a jingle.

[1058] But yes, actually, I would have to, the biggest thrill, of this movie on some level is just the balls to write songs and music like i was so scared to do it on one hand but then i like i knew a composer this brilliant composer david yasbeck i can't even play a musical instrument i just sang these into garage band and like and then i sent them to him and i was like do these suck and he was like no they don't suck and i was like oh god the song at the end with all the children saying how old they are when i was 10 yeah that's beautiful into the next age thank you amazing yeah that's that's my favorite and um yeah i love it because it's funny it starts out really funny because the the premise is like probably an old peanuts premise like a kid thinking oh back when i was seven things were you have no idea how what you what you're looking right but um but i just love like the words the lyrics get are very silly at first like you know we all gave left milk for santa claus my mom was not in menopause and that kind of thing it's all very like heartfelt And they're in a spotlight.

[1059] And then it turns at one point, you know, one girl's reminiscing about her grandfather and my gerbils are still alive.

[1060] It's still kind of funny.

[1061] And then another kid says, I didn't care that people died, which is something that's based on something I experienced with my son, Roe, who's also in the movie.

[1062] He plays the whatever kid, the allergy kid.

[1063] Oh, God.

[1064] The drone kid.

[1065] But anyway.

[1066] That's a great.

[1067] I love the drone.

[1068] Oh, the drone's amazing.

[1069] When he eats, when he goes full Bridget Jones, starts eating the chocolate ice cream after that.

[1070] I love that.

[1071] Thank you.

[1072] But so Roe, so there, when my dad passed away, my kids used to like laugh at the idea of death.

[1073] I don't know if you have a similar, but my kids, I still do.

[1074] Well, you know, you sort of get over the shock and then it's like, realize how funny it is.

[1075] After your own parents die.

[1076] No, so, no. So Rowey, they would, they would like death, man, what is that all about?

[1077] And they'd giggle about how weird it is when they were like four and then like my dad passed away when they were eight and he had a long illness and a beautiful long life so the part of me was relieved but the thing that really made me cry was like hearing rowy experience it and cry he was crying really hard i was with my mom and so i spoke to him on the phone and i realized that not only is he crying because he adored his grandfather but because he's taking in this right reality so that part gets me every time you know that's when That's when I get emotional when I hear that song.

[1078] Well, it's a absolutely beautiful movie.

[1079] It's nice when it all comes together.

[1080] I'm looking at this.

[1081] Leo has had crazy, 34 .6 million views in its first six days.

[1082] I don't know what that means, but it sounds like a lot.

[1083] That's the biggest debut ever for a Netflix animated film.

[1084] That's nice.

[1085] That's, I mean, as long as you have a big piece of the merch, you're okay.

[1086] Oops Somehow I do Lorne Somewhere in Maine Somewhere in Maine A blueberry farm Just got a little bigger It's a blueberry farm Yeah he's a massive blueberry farm And also this is like we have to do it Because we all do Lorne voices And make Lorne jokes But you and I would be completely unknown To everybody if it weren't for Lorne Michael So without a doubt We love him to death But we love doing his voice I love doing his voice.

[1087] The blueberries.

[1088] And that he has a giant blueberry farm in Maine.

[1089] So it's like, you know, the, the blueberries, we don't sell the blueberries because they're ripe.

[1090] We sell them because it's 1130 on Saturday night.

[1091] Well, Robert, I should probably wrap this up.

[1092] But there's going to be a part two at some point.

[1093] But thank you for doing this.

[1094] I love you, you change my life.

[1095] You keep changing it, ruining it, but also making it better.

[1096] Then changing it back.

[1097] Yeah, fixing, smashing, and then make - Enjoy, I want you to be happy for - You should be, I can't believe you could even say that you're still nervous.

[1098] You are - I'm not nervous, but it's like I'm so happy for you because I think it's, can I take two seconds to just remember, okay, so I remember like that summer, Conan would do these practice shows, 1993, I'm talking to it.

[1099] And like Dino, like a couple of writers would be out there and there's no audience and Conan would just be so fucking funny, just relaxed on stage.

[1100] And there was a part of me that was like, why do we have to have an audience?

[1101] Why do we even have to have an audience?

[1102] It's just going to get in the way.

[1103] And, you know, he figured it out and obviously had an amazing career on late night television.

[1104] But this show is everything that you are.

[1105] It's so amazing.

[1106] We get to see how smart you are and thoughtful and spontaneously funny.

[1107] And, you know, I'm over the moon for you.

[1108] You have this and how popular it is.

[1109] I know you're happy.

[1110] No, no, I am.

[1111] I'm very blessed.

[1112] Anyway, love you.

[1113] Everyone has already seen Leo twice by these metrics, but everyone go see it nine times.

[1114] And congratulations.

[1115] Thank you.

[1116] Mazel.

[1117] Thank you.

[1118] Mazel.

[1119] I'm filled with Mazel.

[1120] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[1121] With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Goreley.

[1122] Produced by me, Matt Gourley.

[1123] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf.

[1124] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[1125] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[1126] Take it away, Jimmy.

[1127] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[1128] Engineering by Eduardo Perez, additional production support by Mars Melnick.

[1129] Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

[1130] You can rate and review this show.

[1131] on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode.

[1132] Got a question for Conan?

[1133] Call the Team Coco hotline at 669 -587 -2847 and leave a message.

[1134] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[1135] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.