#1735 - Peter Attia

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] Hello, Peter.

[4] Hello, Joe.

[5] Good to see you.

[6] We're fucking neighbors, man. How you liking the move?

[7] Loving it.

[8] You've been here a year now, right?

[9] A solid year?

[10] A little over, yeah.

[11] Yeah.

[12] Loving it?

[13] I don't know what took so long.

[14] Yeah, it's a different world, right?

[15] Yeah.

[16] When you live in a place that only has a million people, it's like, oh like wow this is uh you could do everything here if i'd done this three years earlier i could have paid half as much for my house too that's the other right so smart to have done this in 2017 well lucky did it then and not now because now it's even harder it's harder it's harder to find a house it's almost impossible yeah i mean every person we introduced to our real estate agent says the same thing which is like you have to build yeah yeah it's that it's that wild which is uh I guess good.

[17] I don't know.

[18] You know, it's tricky because, you know, Google's building their, they have this gigantic sale looking building near the river.

[19] Have you seen it?

[20] Oh, yeah.

[21] Yeah.

[22] So there's going to be a bunch of wokesters running around from that place.

[23] They have to fill that building up, you know, and then, you know, you get, is there a more woke corporation than Google?

[24] Yes.

[25] Which one?

[26] Microsoft.

[27] Really?

[28] Oh, I did see that.

[29] Did you hear that thing Ben Shapiro did?

[30] No. Oh, my God.

[31] I didn't hear it.

[32] What do you do?

[33] He did, it's so funny that I went and listened to it, again, recorded it on my phone off my computer just so I could text it to my friends.

[34] So they had this thing where, um...

[35] I saw the thing.

[36] Where they introduced, everyone introduced themselves.

[37] With their pronouns and they described themselves.

[38] You're right.

[39] So I would say, hi, my name is Peter Attia.

[40] I'm a light skin guy with a shaved head wearing a green shirt.

[41] I go by, he, him.

[42] Yeah, and you would say Caucasian probably.

[43] Yes, yes, I would, right?

[44] Yeah.

[45] And, um, and then, but then one of the women said, before we begin, I would just like to state that our land, with the land that this building sits on was actually once owned by or, you know, and she rattled off 17 tribes.

[46] Yes.

[47] At which point, like, my brother was like, well, just show me the title deed.

[48] Like, is it yours or is it theirs?

[49] Because if it's theirs, you really should give it back.

[50] What is happening?

[51] What's going on?

[52] But Microsoft, which is interesting, they were never like this.

[53] Like, all of a sudden, they went full tilt.

[54] They just went from zero to 11, right?

[55] They don't have a history of, like, ads that were woke.

[56] I don't know.

[57] It's, it has provided.

[58] Like, give me some volume of this because it's so stupid.

[59] And lots in store for you.

[60] First, we want to acknowledge that the land where the Microsoft campus is situated was traditionally occupied by the Samamish, the Duwamish, the Snowqualmi, the Siouxquamish, the muckle chute, the snow homish, the Tulalup, and other coast -sailish peoples since time immemorial, a people that are still here, continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage.

[61] My name is Allison Wein.

[62] I'm a senior program manager in our developer tools division.

[63] I'm an Asian and white female with dark brown hair wearing a red sleeveless top.

[64] I'm watching this.

[65] As a program manager in the AI platform group, I'm a tall Hispanic male wearing a blue shirt, khaki pants.

[66] Today we kick off two days of learning more about the latest solutions, exploring how these key innovations can empower you to do great things and connecting with ears.

[67] They didn't tell their pronouns.

[68] The other folks told their pronouns.

[69] Was that for hearing impaired?

[70] No, it's for visually impaired, which is the greatest irony, right?

[71] It's like, we want the people who can't see our color to know our color.

[72] Oh, right.

[73] Like, it literally is the most logically inconsistent thing you could ever have with what we think are the right values.

[74] That's interesting.

[75] Like, how much racism is there amongst visually impaired people?

[76] Well, apparently there'll be more now because we get...

[77] But, I mean, if you really stop and think about it, like, they can't make that distinction.

[78] They can only judge people based on how the people communicate with them.

[79] They can't look at someone and prejudge.

[80] They're probably at the least racist people alive.

[81] Well, we're going to fix that.

[82] but all the fucking shit about the thing that's ironic is she's describing all the different tribes that have owned the land well why do you think there's so many it's because they killed each other and stole the land from each other like the fuck are you saying like there was a michael nois had this conversation i watched on youtube where this professor this woke professor was uh trying to say that we should give back land to native tribes and And he was like, okay, but which ones?

[83] You got to decide which ones because, like, the Comanche took it from the Apache, took it from the...

[84] And he was, like, going through the history of it.

[85] It's like, how do you decide?

[86] Like, do you go back?

[87] Well, the Comanche took it from you, but you took it from the Navajo, but the Navajo took it from the Pawnee.

[88] And they're like, oh...

[89] I'm going to ask her, because she'll know.

[90] It's so exhausting.

[91] What is happening to us?

[92] This wokeness.

[93] You know, it's easy to say the pendulum's going to swing the other way, and it probably will, but, and my brother actually said this, and I think he's accurate.

[94] It's not a pendulum.

[95] It's a wrecking ball, right?

[96] A pendulum implies just this benign little thing that's going to go back, but it's not.

[97] It's going to go, right?

[98] And it's going to kill a bunch of people and ruin a bunch of lives and careers on the way back to some reasonable equilibrium.

[99] I think the only reasonable equilibrium is mind reading software.

[100] I really do.

[101] I think the reasonable equilibrium is going to be something that allows us to read each other's mind so that there's no confusion whatsoever about what your intent is.

[102] Although, did you hear the person?

[103] I forwarded this article.

[104] So I have a group text with a bunch of friends and my brother where we just, this is our only outlet for this insanity.

[105] And someone wrote, actually, John Stewart defended Dave Chappelle after the special and said, Look, his intent was X, right?

[106] Right.

[107] And this person, I don't remember who it was.

[108] I don't remember what, you know, it was in The Independent or something like that, wrote this whole thing saying, intent is bullshit.

[109] Intent means nothing.

[110] And it was so ridiculous because the argument she gave was homicide.

[111] She's like, even if you don't mean to kill somebody, it's still manslaughter, to which we're all at the same time like, yeah.

[112] And there's a difference between first degree, second.

[113] degree, involuntary.

[114] Like, of course intent matters.

[115] Of course it matters.

[116] Yeah.

[117] But the point is there are people now arguing intent is irrelevant.

[118] That's the dumbest thing ever because like would if someone, if you can be charged with manslaughter, if you get in an argument of someone, like say if you are in a situation with someone and they bump into your car and you yell at them and they get in your face and take a swing at you and you knock them out and they fall and hit their head and die, you can get charged with manslaughter for that.

[119] is so much different than break it into someone's house and shooting them in the face.

[120] Right.

[121] It's so much different.

[122] Like plotting out.

[123] So the intent is everything.

[124] Absolutely.

[125] And the idea of communication is always, it's always I want to express my thoughts to you so you could better understand what I'm thinking and we can figure out what's right and what's wrong.

[126] We can hash things out.

[127] We can work on a plan.

[128] If you don't know what the fuck a person really means and you're only going by words, like what are we, are we code now?

[129] Like intent doesn't matter, emotions don't matter, thoughts don't matter, of course it matter.

[130] It's like the only thing that makes us human.

[131] Yeah.

[132] It's so dumb, but it's people taking advantage of what the internet provides, this ability to communicate and express outrage and push buttons, right?

[133] So because we have this new ability to do this, there's a lot of bad actors that use that, that use that ability to communicate to find things to complain about that are really not relevant.

[134] They're not really something you should be complaining about.

[135] And if you do complain about it, it's really because you don't have any legitimate problems in your real life.

[136] Well, I think the other thing is there's an insecurity.

[137] Actually, there's an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal today about this, right?

[138] Which is, what was the title of the article was something along the lines of why the woke can't take a joke.

[139] And what it basically came down to was the, and this was quoting guys from like a hundred years ago making the same thing when it came to jokes about religion.

[140] And the idea was if you aren't comfortable in your position, you're going to be easily offended when somebody rattles you, when somebody pokes fun at you.

[141] Yes.

[142] And if you're comfortable, like if I came here and said, oh, hunters are wankers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[143] Like, it wouldn't offend you because you're very comfortable in your position in your beliefs.

[144] And it's like, hey, if you don't like hunting, that's cool.

[145] But that says nothing about me. Well, it definitely wouldn't come from you because you're a hunter.

[146] You know what I'm saying?

[147] Like if you came to me and said bow hunting is bullshit, I'd be like, ha, ha.

[148] But if anybody said it to you, it wouldn't phase you.

[149] Well, it wouldn't, but it wouldn't be a conversation where I would probably, if I respected that person, I would want to either defend it or explain my position.

[150] But you wouldn't be offended, is the point.

[151] You could engage with them as opposed to throwing up a flag.

[152] Yeah, yeah.

[153] I mean, it's a weird thing that we're doing right now with words.

[154] You know, this is a strange time where we're trying to ban words, and we're trying to change the meaning of words and eliminate nuance.

[155] in conversations.

[156] And again, we're doing it because of social justice, right?

[157] And the people that use social media to try to enact social justice, which really doesn't change.

[158] It's not really getting anybody justice.

[159] It's just getting the rocks off of these people that enjoy complaining, and most of them really should be doing something else.

[160] Most of the people on Twitter should be doing something else.

[161] I have radically reduced my amount of time on Twitter.

[162] But every now and then I open it up and it's like watching a fucking like a room that's like five by five filled with 400 chickens and they're just squacking each other and pecking each other.

[163] It's like Jesus, this is horrible.

[164] It's so bad for your mental health.

[165] It's just people arguing and dunking on each other all day long.

[166] Even outside of that.

[167] My roommate from med school who's a urologist called me yesterday because he couldn't wait to tell me this ridiculous story.

[168] So So a colleague of his, this female urologist, who's a badass surgeon, was giving a lecture to the medical school, which is common, right?

[169] You'll always have the surgeon will come in or the doctor will come in.

[170] And before she got up to give her lecture, the dean said to her, I'm not making this up.

[171] This is a urologist giving a lecture to a group of medical students, said, I would appreciate it if you would not use the word penis during this lecture.

[172] he said it before the lecture yeah she said it's an anatomic term i'm a urologist what would you like me to say and what he came up with some idiotic oh he said maybe you could call it male erectile tissue and she was like well she's now fucking with him she's like but what if it's flaccid what wouldn't the use of male also be kind of triggering in that sense I mean, good point.

[173] Yeah, I mean, and she basically told him to piss off.

[174] And what did this, this guy was the dean?

[175] The dean of the medical school.

[176] And I assume he's a doctor as well?

[177] He should be.

[178] Yeah, yeah, if he's a dean of a medical school, he would be an MD.

[179] What in the fuck is wrong with people?

[180] I don't know.

[181] One of my favorite videos is there's a communist meeting, a meeting of these student communists, and they're like, criticizing each other for various things and one of them gets up and tells everybody that please keep the chatter to a minimum and be respectful for people that are easily distracted and then another one gets up and they they yell out to stop using gendered language because like he said guys can you guys please do this and so he gets up and says can you stop using gendered language and it's just like you guys are like LARPers you know it's like live action role play like you're playing like you're in a different demand.

[182] If you want to hear it?

[183] It's hilarious.

[184] And to win socialism.

[185] Thank you so much.

[186] Quick point of privilege.

[187] Quick point of personal privilege.

[188] Guys, first of all, James Jackson, Sacramento, he, him.

[189] I just want to say, can we please keep the chatter to a minimum?

[190] I'm one of the people who's very, very prone to sensory overload.

[191] There's a lot of whispering and chatter going on.

[192] It's making it very difficult for me to focus.

[193] Please, can we just, I know we're all fresh and ready to go, but can we please just keep the chatter to a minimum?

[194] It's affecting my ability to focus.

[195] thank you thank you comrade okay is there a speaker against name chapter pronoun point of personal privilege yes please do not use gendered language to to address everyone and she calls everyone comrades too it is adorable these fucking kids are doomed they're doomed they're doomed they're all going to have to join the military there's no way to save them oh my god It's just so weird.

[196] It's like it happened so quick.

[197] Yeah, that's the thing.

[198] I keep saying to myself, where was the inflection point and how did I miss it?

[199] Well, I didn't totally miss it because I had a lot of people on that were, you know, six years ago, seven years ago, giving me warnings of like what's going on in the universities.

[200] But I didn't think the spillover would be so broad that it would like really make its way into corporations.

[201] and I thought like there would be a barrier.

[202] Yeah, because it would be a containment sort of.

[203] Particularly with corporations, because I thought they weren't going to tolerate that shit because it's going to affect their bottom line.

[204] But then they realized that you can sort of do what Microsoft is doing.

[205] Play Kate and play to the woke.

[206] And then it will somehow or another help you financially.

[207] But I don't think it does.

[208] You know, Apple's looking pretty good after that fucking commercial.

[209] Which one I didn't?

[210] The Microsoft one.

[211] Oh, oh, yeah, yeah.

[212] The squamish and the chumash and the...

[213] Well, hey, just wait.

[214] I'm sure they'll come up with their own version.

[215] I don't think they will.

[216] I don't think they'll go that far.

[217] I mean, they're pretty woke, but they seem a little bit more reasonable.

[218] The craziest thing is that all of this is coming through devices that are made by slave labor.

[219] Like, that's...

[220] At the end of the day, it's so hypocritical that all these people tweeting about social justice and, you know, all the wrongs of the world, you're doing it on a fucking device that's made by child slave.

[221] Like, sorry, you want to buy an iPhone?

[222] You got to get something that's essentially made by people that are getting slave wages.

[223] They're working 16 hours a day in a building that has nets around it to keep suicide people from jumping off the roof.

[224] That's Foxconn.

[225] That's where they make them.

[226] They don't make them here.

[227] They're not making them in Ohio with, you know, folks that are in a union that get paid, you know, great wages and benefits and can take care of their families.

[228] Uh -uh.

[229] No. No. We want to try to keep the bottom line nice and low.

[230] Yeah.

[231] So in order for you to tweet about social justice, you have to do it on a device that's made by people that are not much better than slaves.

[232] Not much well off.

[233] Not more well off.

[234] They're really not.

[235] It's fucked.

[236] It's crazy that there's no outrage to that.

[237] Well, the outrage is silent.

[238] That's the problem.

[239] I mean, we're all, you know, I guess I should be more vocal about it.

[240] You should be more vocal about it.

[241] Everybody should be more vocal about it.

[242] Because there's no way the majority of people are looking at this and thinking it's reasonable.

[243] No, they're not.

[244] But we're not doing enough about it.

[245] But we're not doing anything about it.

[246] Yeah.

[247] There's no one, no one has made a push to make a phone in America, unless there's something I don't know about.

[248] Is there a phone made in America?

[249] Let's see if there is a phone made in America.

[250] I bet there is not one.

[251] I'm willing to bet there's not one.

[252] And if it is, it's a piece of shit.

[253] I heard Elon's thinking of making a phone.

[254] There was, there's some talk of a Tesla phone.

[255] If that happens, he might be like the only one.

[256] If Tesla does that, they might be the only ones that could sway people from iPhones.

[257] Yeah, I think you're right.

[258] Right?

[259] If anybody can't, because it's hard.

[260] Like, Samsung has some amazing phones.

[261] The cameras are incredible, but people look at that green text coming in.

[262] They're like not doing it, you know?

[263] But if like someone like Elon convinced people to switch over to signal, which is probably better for everybody anyway to have some peer -to -peer encrypted application.

[264] Libram 5 USA.

[265] This is a Linux phone, isn't it?

[266] Yes.

[267] Made in the USA electronics with a secure supply chain.

[268] What does that mean?

[269] Made with a secure supply chain.

[270] What's that mean?

[271] You want a smartphone bill outside China and the world gardens of Google and Apple?

[272] this may be for you according to the register.

[273] So it's real?

[274] Yeah, I just Google, there's a...

[275] 32 gigabytes.

[276] Get the fuck out of here.

[277] My phone has a terabyte, you fucking idiots.

[278] There you go.

[279] It's the equivalent of your flip phone.

[280] What is this?

[281] What else is in there?

[282] It's for essential communication zone.

[283] I can see the stats.

[284] Look at that.

[285] 5 .7 in screen.

[286] Okay, it's kind of small.

[287] Three gigabytes of memory.

[288] Piss poor.

[289] 32 gigabytes of storage.

[290] That's terrible.

[291] But 4 ,500 mill -amp batter.

[292] is substantial.

[293] And replaceable.

[294] Ooh, that's nice.

[295] The big battery is substantial.

[296] But that probably means that it's not water resistant if it's got a replaceable battery.

[297] Hmm.

[298] So pure OS is what it runs.

[299] It would be a phone.

[300] That's made in America.

[301] Right.

[302] According to this.

[303] Unless there's some sneaky stuff too.

[304] Well, what I'm worried about is I think they said they use supply chain.

[305] Yeah.

[306] Secure US supply chain smartphone.

[307] You're not saying what I want you to say.

[308] What I want you to say is everything is made in America.

[309] All fabrication and manufacturing done at the Purism Facility.

[310] Fabrication and manufacturing.

[311] Individual components used in the fabrication are sourced direct from the chip market as a part distributor.

[312] That means they're from other countries.

[313] We use U .S. companies with U .S. fabrication whenever possible.

[314] What that doesn't mean it's from the U .S. Most distributors are based in the U .S. Most, with the exception of large integrated circuits that are made in a variety of kinds of countries where those companies do fabrication, U .S., Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, while those companies, at least those countries that they just listed aren't using slave labor, as an example of NXPCBU used from their fabrication in South Korea.

[315] While we source chips made from the U .S. wherever possible, chip country of origin is not nearly as meaningful as country of board fabrication, especially when all chips are verified, hardware circuits that are driven by free software in the kernel yeah these colonel motherfuckers he's Linux guys they start talking kernel and my eyes gloss over there's a chip shortage too right yeah whatever that mean I don't know exactly what that means but means it's hard to get a car yeah yeah I had a friend was trying to buy a Ford Raptor he couldn't get one oh yeah it's like I ordered my pickup truck I wanted to get one in a manual so I had an old Tacoma gave it to my brother -in -law you wanted to get a pickup truck and a manual There's only two that are still made.

[316] Who makes it?

[317] Tacoma makes a limited edition pro, sport, and the Jeep pickup truck comes in a manual.

[318] Oh, well, the Jeep kind of makes sense.

[319] I can't believe Tacoma still does that.

[320] That's what, why do you want a manual pickup truck?

[321] I want my daughter to be able to drive manual.

[322] Oh.

[323] And I just miss driving manual.

[324] Really?

[325] I grew up driving manual, and about, you know, six years ago when all cars went to dual clutch, like when sports cars went to dual clutch, I basically get up.

[326] I still drive manual on the track, but I kind of miss it on.

[327] the road and i and i just i do want my daughter to drive a manual i feel it'll keep her well also it'll like you'll be texting less and screwing around less i hope so maybe not but anyway the point is i ordered the thing like six months ago and it's always like a month away yeah it'll be a month away for another year yeah i have manual cars i have a bunch of manual cars but they're older cars like i have a 2007 Porsche gt3 rs that's a manual that gunther works Porsche is a manual I got a 70 Chevelle, that's a manual.

[328] 69 Camaro, that's a manual.

[329] I got a bunch of manual cars.

[330] That 69 Camaro is a four -speed?

[331] No, it's a rest -o -mod.

[332] It's a six -speed.

[333] With an 850 horsepower engine.

[334] The 07 GT3 must be nice.

[335] Oh, it's fun.

[336] Yeah, it's really fun.

[337] It's a Sharkworks car, too.

[338] Oh, yeah, yeah, great sound.

[339] It's got 518 horsepower.

[340] That's...

[341] Because of the exhaust, it's boosting it that much?

[342] No, they, they...

[343] it out to 3 .9 liters from 3 .6.

[344] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[345] You know what Sharkworks?

[346] Of course.

[347] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[348] I almost had it on mine.

[349] Oh, really?

[350] Yeah.

[351] Yeah.

[352] They make awesome stuff, and they really, they're a big fan of manuals.

[353] They don't really particularly like dual clutch cars either.

[354] So they particularly like Gen 1 and like 997, Gen 1 and Gen 2, RRSs that you could really juice up.

[355] Yeah.

[356] I mean, you know, it's funny.

[357] I wanted to get a GT3 and the 992 .1 and the Porsche dealer here said, no problem, we have an allocation, we can get you one, but you're gonna spend 75 ,000 over MSRP.

[358] And I was like, wait a minute, you're gonna charge me. The dealer is gonna charge me 75 ,000 over the MSRP, no chance.

[359] That's so much more.

[360] Yeah, I'm like, you can buy a 991 .2RS for less.

[361] Yeah, that's dumb.

[362] Yeah, I'll give you a taste.

[363] you can get a taste you get a little bit you can't ask for 75 ,000 that's just hoping that someone's a rich asshole and they're just willing to throw the money down to have it but you can get them from other states like there's you know i call i call i actually called three other dealers and the lowest premium i was getting was 40k over really but i was just on principle i'm like i'm not doing it like that's i'm not it's the same reason there's certain watches i just won't buy because i'm not willing to pay the premium over but when it's based on a a false scarcity you know right right just it just irks me the watch market is very weird with that there's some watches that you see them and you're like why is that a hundred thousand dollars help i have sold more watches in the last few years just and and i'm wearing like a hundred dollar g shock that i love you know it's are you trying to get away from the watch fetish no i mean i i have you drink caffeine this is yeah yeah kill clip um no i mean i i think i think i just I had too many and I was I wouldn't wear them all and it just didn't make sense and so I kind of I still have a lot of old watches that I really like like kind of 60s 50s oh really you collect them yeah what do you got what kind do you like so I like the sort of I like Rolexes in that vintage right so the kind of the Daytona the no date subs and the GMTs in that first iteration so the the the guilt version which is kind of the yellow like it has the brighter marks on it.

[364] Yeah.

[365] So I got a few years ago, before they got really silly in pricing, a guy that I work with, this name's Andrew Shear in New York, who does just vintage Rolex.

[366] He calls me up, and I had told him for about a year and a half.

[367] I wanted a certain, I wanted a guilt 1675 GMT.

[368] And he, I remember, I was getting on a plane.

[369] I was at Newark just leaving.

[370] And he goes, sends me a picture.

[371] And I'm like, dude, that's like new old stock.

[372] He goes, yeah.

[373] It was like some guy bought it in Hong Kong in 1967 it sat in a shoebox for till now wow so it doesn't have any patina no fade no nothing it actually still has a little bit of a patina just based on how old it is but it's it's in perfect condition i love that watch you know what i don't like and i like some of the watches but i don't like that they're doing this they're they're doing a faux patina on some watches yeah it's so weird like i got the uh the omega i'm a big omega fan and i got the james bond the no time to die Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[374] Did you get the one with the metal bracelet?

[375] Yeah, I just got that too.

[376] It's amazing.

[377] It's a beautiful watch.

[378] I'm just, I'm a big fan of their die.

[379] I'm actually wearing one of their dive watches.

[380] But the, um, that one they use that faux patina and I'm like, why did you do that?

[381] This is one thing that you kept it from being perfect.

[382] It is a beautiful.

[383] I love, I love tropical dials and that's what makes that watch to me so beautiful.

[384] Tropical.

[385] What do you mean?

[386] Like that brown color?

[387] Oh, that's tropical.

[388] Yeah.

[389] So tropical is like kind of one of the most.

[390] sought after thing in a Daytona.

[391] If you get an old Daytona with a tropical face, it's, they're hard to find, but they're gorgeous, yeah.

[392] Watches are weird because it's like, there's something about it that appeals to men more than it does to women.

[393] Like, I know there's a lot of women that are watch collectors, but it seems if I'm paying attention to the internet and watching videos, it's a male -dominated jewelry thing.

[394] Totally.

[395] Which is the only male -dominated jewelry thing that I can, could ever really think about that I can consider I don't think there's another one and because it's weird because it's a jewelry thing but it's also a mechanical thing like there's something about the engineering I think that's why it's it's it is our jewelry yeah but the the mechanics of it are beautiful if you like omega which I'm also very partial to omega the ed white re -release speedmaster 321 caliber is unbelievable which one's that's my favorite of What does it look like?

[396] I have a couple of speedmasters.

[397] So it looks just like a pretty regular speedmaster, except that it has the caliber 321, which was the up to 1969 caliber.

[398] So this is the moon watch.

[399] So in 1969, they discontinued the caliber 321, and they went to the caliber 1861, which is what they basically rode up until a few years ago.

[400] But the purest loves that 321.

[401] The problem is if you go back and buy one from the 60s, I have one.

[402] I have an old one as well.

[403] They're not the most reliable in the world.

[404] They're hard to service, you know, all sorts of things.

[405] So when they redid this, they had to basically, they didn't even have the original drawings for it anymore.

[406] They had to go back and look at existing watches and kind of extrapolate from the wear in the existing watches to what the movement did.

[407] Oh, wow.

[408] That's amazing.

[409] So they had a back engineer it?

[410] Yep, they had to reverse engineer it.

[411] Is that it right there?

[412] Yep.

[413] So there you go.

[414] That's pretty.

[415] I love watching those little things move around because you realize that they figured this out in the 1800s.

[416] Yeah.

[417] Probably even before, right, with pocket watches?

[418] What was the first pocket watch?

[419] Hmm, that's a good question.

[420] Let's take a guess before we Google it.

[421] Jamie, what do you think?

[422] First pocket watch.

[423] With mechanics that worked like that?

[424] Wind up.

[425] They were all wind -up ones.

[426] I'm going to go old 15, no, let's say before that.

[427] It's like 1450 -ish.

[428] Really?

[429] They had to use something like that probably for maneuvering the oceans, I'm guessing.

[430] But how would...

[431] I don't know.

[432] How would they even agree to what time is?

[433] it was.

[434] I don't have any idea.

[435] See, because, like, before they agreed to what time it was, no one had a fucking clue, right?

[436] Like, there was a...

[437] They're using sundials and things like that.

[438] There was a time in history where no one agreed what time it was.

[439] Well, like, how old's Big Ben?

[440] Like, that's probably the first of the agreement, because they're like, hey, that's the fucking time right there.

[441] Right, that's a good point.

[442] Big Ben, I'm going to guess Big Ben is from 1800.

[443] All right.

[444] I was not...

[445] I'm going to go a little earlier.

[446] Really?

[447] Okay, hit me with it.

[448] 1510.

[449] 1510 is the first watch.

[450] German watchmaker, Peter Heinlein, Henline.

[451] So he's like, this is the time?

[452] It's here?

[453] This is it?

[454] He's like just decided.

[455] He's the first guy to decide what the time is.

[456] Because everybody else is like, well, fuck you.

[457] That's not, I don't think that's the time.

[458] Like you could decide.

[459] Right?

[460] If you go back to caveman days, there's no time.

[461] And then as, like, no one has any idea what the time it is.

[462] But as time moves forward and we get closer and closer to modern era, There had a come a point in time where they decided, all right, we're good.

[463] This is what noon is right here.

[464] Yeah.

[465] I love the way in which, like, how accurately we can record time now, right?

[466] It's pretty wild.

[467] That's kind of mind -boggling to me. Is it confusing us, though?

[468] Because we're, we're instead of looking at actual time, which is a thing that's existing right now only.

[469] There is the past and there is the future.

[470] actual real time is just this.

[471] You can measure how long things take.

[472] But is it confusing us as to what time actually is?

[473] Because what we're really doing is measuring time on devices.

[474] We're measuring seconds that go by, hours that go by, minutes that go by.

[475] It's not giving you an excuse to not be prompt.

[476] But it's really kind of bullshit.

[477] Well, I don't know, but I will say this.

[478] Not having a watch on feels great sometimes.

[479] Not having a phone with you.

[480] feels great and you know being in nature like when you're hunting i do wear a watch but only because i want to know where we are in relation to sunup and sundown yes but outside of that like yeah you'd have you have no care in the world you know you right you care about wind you care about right scent you creditors other things and did i tell you about the mountain line i saw no i didn't tell you when we were in utah i saw a giant mountain lion fucking giant like as big as me it was huge it was huge it was It was huge.

[481] How far from you?

[482] We were in a truck, luckily, and it was about 30 yards away.

[483] My friend Colton spotted it.

[484] We were driving, and he hits the brakes.

[485] He goes, that fucking mountain lion.

[486] And I'm like where, and then I see its eyes.

[487] Because it was starting to get dark out, but it was still light, and its eyes were glowing.

[488] And I put up the binoculars to take a look at it, like, closer through the windshield.

[489] And I was like, holy fuck.

[490] It was huge.

[491] I did not know they got that big.

[492] Oh, they get to 200 pounds.

[493] The one that I saw previously, I saw one in Santa Barbara, and it was probably like 70 pounds, 60 pounds.

[494] It was pretty small.

[495] And then I saw another one in Colorado, but it was so brief.

[496] It was hard to tell, and that one seemed the same size.

[497] It seemed like a smaller juvenile one.

[498] This was not a juvenile.

[499] This was a 100 % full -grown Tom with a big old pumpkin head and huge paws, and the forearms were wild.

[500] Like, that was the weirdest thing.

[501] Like, looking at his forearms were as big as my arms.

[502] thighs.

[503] I was like fuck look at this fucking thing.

[504] It was just looking at us, you know, and it was under a tree.

[505] And, you know, we open up the car door and try to like get film of it and look at it closer and it took off.

[506] And it was so big.

[507] Because I was thinking like if I was out there on my own, you know, because people do that all the time, they hunt solo and they don't carry a weapon, you know, like Colton didn't have a weapon.

[508] I only had a bow and arrow.

[509] And here's this giant -ass fucking cat.

[510] Like, if we zigged when we should have zagged and all of a sudden we're on top of this thing and it decides to pounce on us, fuck.

[511] That better be a good tri -pin.

[512] Yeah, did you see that video of the guy who shot the mountain line in the face?

[513] No. Jamie.

[514] He's hunting, too, and he's got a Glock out, and he's telling this mountain line, hey, back up, back up.

[515] And it's not even, it's a smaller one, like a 90 -pound one.

[516] but he's saying to it hey fuck off like get out of here and then it makes the move on him and you know he drops his phone you hear crack crack here one shot one shot um and then you see the thing twitching on the ground it's got a bullet hole in its face yeah but doesn't have that gun he's fucked because occasionally they will jump on people and that's the situation this guy was in like look at this give me some volume rewind it and give me the volume because when it's looking at its face you get back look at that you can get back you get back you get back look at back look at that ah ah ah no no mother f***er i just had to shoot this mountain line they pounced at me and i popped it in the face.

[517] Holy shit.

[518] Holy shit.

[519] That is wild, right?

[520] Oh, my God.

[521] Oh, my God.

[522] Oh, my God.

[523] At least he's got, like, 100 % proof of self -defense.

[524] I mean, that thing was like 10 feet from him.

[525] Wow.

[526] It was so, and apparently it went, look at that.

[527] That's where he shot it, right through the face.

[528] Apparently, it was about to pounce.

[529] what do you do you got to do that man yeah but do you i don't bring a pistol with me oh no but i mean you know it's funny i never thought about it except if you're hunting boars right that's the one time when you're like you you have to have a gun with you if you're shooting a bore they will charge you yeah yeah and they'll they'll charge you if you hit them they'll charge you if you're bow hunting like yeah i was watching a show once where the guy was packing and he shot a pig a wild boar with a bow and arrow and it came charging full clip at him with the arrow hanging out of its body and he had to shoot it.

[530] Speaking of shooting, this range down the street from you is incredible.

[531] Which range?

[532] The, whatever, the Austin Gun Club.

[533] Oh, the range.

[534] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[535] The range, the indoor range.

[536] Yeah, that's great.

[537] Yeah, that place is really good.

[538] Yeah, I just went there for the first time today.

[539] Yeah, it's really good.

[540] Yeah, we have a corporate membership there.

[541] It's nice.

[542] Everybody can go, go, bang, bang.

[543] It's good.

[544] You know, it's like shooting guns is something you really have to do on a fairly regular basis?

[545] What do you think the frequency is?

[546] Because it's not as frequent as archery.

[547] I mean, archery, if I go two days without shooting my bow, I notice a difference.

[548] Really?

[549] Yeah.

[550] What do you figure it is?

[551] Like, you've got to do it once a month, twice a month?

[552] I think once a month is reasonable.

[553] As long as you really do take time and you make a lot of shots and you have good form.

[554] And you're really paying attention to what you're doing, you know?

[555] I think there's just too many people that have a gun and think that they're safe and they don't know how to use it at all they don't practice with it like it's really kind of strange you could just buy a gun like you don't really have to have like to get a concealed carry permit you have to show competency but you don't really have to do that for a regular I mean the first time I bought a gun was in 1994 when I first moved to California and I just walked into a gun shop and they said I want to buy a pistol so I bought a Glock I still own it and I paid for it they did a background check I think it was like a few days I got the gun that's it you don't have to know shit I mean I shot it at that range but you don't really have to know much and when I shot at the range nobody taught me to shoot it I just shot it I just like okay you put the bullets here and this is where the trigger is and point it down there okay bang bang bang and now at least with YouTube like There are some people out there putting really good content out where you can, if you're a newbie, you can say, okay, well, show me how, what's the right technique?

[556] Yes.

[557] What are the mistakes that people make here and stuff like that?

[558] But, yeah, back in the day, I mean, you really should get, I think you should get one -on -one instruction if you can afford it.

[559] You know, I don't know how much cost to get someone to teach you how to shoot a gun correctly, but someone should show you how to hold it, you know, where to place your hand and where you should put the pressure and which hand should be relaxed and how to line your sights up correctly.

[560] that that's something that's a little tricky to do in a video you know for me the the long range stuff is I just I just bought an accuracy international 300 Norma Mag like super super long range rifle and for me which and it's actually too big a gun for hunting so it's not it's really it serves yeah yeah it's it's it's just a little too long like the long barrel it's just too heavy a gun to take into the field oh amazing weapon for hunting because the 300 Norma Mag is a ridiculous caliber.

[561] Like, that'll knock an elk over if you hit it in the shoulder at 1 ,000 yards.

[562] Wow.

[563] But this is a gun that you can work your way out to shooting a mile, you know, shooting a dinner plate at a mile, which is just, again, that to me is the joy, right?

[564] Like, that's the fun, is learning the wind and learning the technique.

[565] Because it is in the sense like archery.

[566] You know, an archery, if you can't control the pressure of your hand on the riser, you know, at 20, you know, at 20s.

[567] 20 yards, it doesn't matter, but at 80 yards, it matters everything.

[568] Yeah.

[569] And it's the same thing with those guns.

[570] Like, out, you know, if you're not on the clavicle the right way, and your face is not on this the right way, and your trigger isn't pulling back perfectly, like, all of that stuff just amplifies mistakes.

[571] So for me, that's the most fun thing, is those otherwise not particularly helpful long -range rifles.

[572] Yeah, when you really get into archery, long range shows you where your mistakes are.

[573] You know, I was talking to Lee Likoski, and he was saying that, for people don't know, Lee Likoski is a very famous bow hunter.

[574] And he was telling me that if he shoots 100 arrows, 99 of them are at 100 yards.

[575] Wow.

[576] He says, that's how you find out where your form is.

[577] And he goes, and that's how it's repeatable.

[578] Because he shot an elk of pretty far distance this year.

[579] And he was explaining it to me. He said, I have a whole process that I do.

[580] when I shoot in the field versus when I shoot at a target, like it's the same process.

[581] So he just does exactly what he does at home, and he's done it so many times that he's very confident that if he does have an 80 -plus -yard shot on an elk, that he can make it perfectly.

[582] What is your comfort range in the field, not at home?

[583] I've shot a lot of elk at 60 yards, 67 yards.

[584] I shot one at 75 yards.

[585] That was the one in California, right?

[586] Yeah.

[587] Yeah, that guy was bedded for a while.

[588] Yeah, yeah.

[589] Yeah, but I was relaxed and I'd been shooting at 75 yards a lot.

[590] And I felt comfortable.

[591] Like, there was no wind.

[592] I was comfortable.

[593] And, you know, an elk is a large target.

[594] If I was going to shoot a deer, it'd be significantly less.

[595] I shot an axis once at 69, but it was a good situation.

[596] He was 100 % broadside and not at all jumpy.

[597] I mean, I had no clue I was there.

[598] But in retrospect, I still think.

[599] that's a bit I don't know that I would take that shot again 69 doesn't leave you much margin for air on a deer they're not that big they're so small especially yeah what are they weigh 120 pounds like a big one I mean a good I mean the biggest one I've ever shot was 200 hundred really yeah he was a beast oh wow what island was this Maui oh no kidding I've never been hunting on Maui you got to come man yeah it's I think it's 10 times better than one I really why the terrain you're up you're up on the volcano right on that makes sense Haleakala is, I mean, the density of deer is not as high as Lanai, of course, but the terrain is insane.

[600] And the bucks are huge.

[601] Like, there are lots of 30 -inch bucks out there.

[602] Oh, wow.

[603] Well, the density in Lanai is almost like a problem.

[604] Right.

[605] It's like too many eyes on you.

[606] It's just too weird.

[607] It's also too weird.

[608] It's like, what do you, like, I kind of feel like you could just close your eyes and draw back and launch into the sky and you might hit something.

[609] You know?

[610] I mean, there's so many deer.

[611] out there.

[612] It's for people who don't know what Lanai is, it's a very small island in the Hawaiian island's chain and it has 30 ,000 deer on it, which is so crazy to say.

[613] Right.

[614] I think, 3 ,000 people.

[615] That's right.

[616] And Molokai has 70 ,000.

[617] What?

[618] It's crazy.

[619] That's insane.

[620] Yeah, and Maui has the most, I believe, but obviously it's a bigger island.

[621] Maui has more than 70 ,000.

[622] I think I used to know the numbers for each of the three islands, but I think Maui might have like 100 ,000.

[623] Are they as jumpy in Maui as they are in Lanai?

[624] Because the Lanai, they're so pressured because they hunt them so often.

[625] I mean, that's the funny thing with them.

[626] Even when you're up in Haleakala, they're still jumpy, and I keep thinking, like, why?

[627] They haven't been around humans, but their evolution is so strong.

[628] You know, I guess when you spend half a billion years getting away from tigers, yeah.

[629] Like, you don't, you don't turn that off in 50 years, you know?

[630] No, I mean, that is the fucking animal, right?

[631] Yeah.

[632] If there's one animal that you evolved to get away from and you have to be fast, I mean, their way they can jump a string is so crazy.

[633] Like, the bow goes off and they hear the sound, they're gone.

[634] It's amazing.

[635] It's so weird to see a move like that.

[636] It's like, how does it?

[637] The central nervous system must be just so fucking tight and wired like a drum.

[638] Right.

[639] You know?

[640] They need some stress management techniques.

[641] I know.

[642] But it's weird because they seem so peaceful until that moment.

[643] Like they're like immediate to a hundred, you know?

[644] Because they don't seem jumping until they jump.

[645] Yeah.

[646] It's amazing.

[647] Well, it's like what else are they going to do?

[648] This is the problem with Australia.

[649] It's the problem with New Zealand.

[650] It's like, you know, in Australia, they've made giant mistakes with that where they brought in other animals to try to tolerate, to try to mitigate the number of, you know, this or that.

[651] and then those animals wind up wiping out native populations of nesting birds, like cats, like feral cats in Australia.

[652] It's a giant problem.

[653] What the Axis Deer are doing in Hawaii is brutal for Hawaii.

[654] It's just killing that state.

[655] And what can they do other than hire people to shoot them?

[656] I mean, at this point, you know, Jake Mews, my friend who runs that company out there that's Maui Nuwee Venison, these guys that are making, you know, commercializing, they have a USDA -grade commercialized.

[657] program for making access deer and they're about as efficient as they get he he does not think they're they're not even going to be able to flatten the population curve till 2030 whoa so it's gonna continue growing till 2030 are they just making those venison sticks are they selling steaks and roasts everything oh that's great how does someone let's tell how does someone get a hold of that because that is a great opportunity for you to get actual real legitimate wild game and it happens to be one of the most delicious wild games.

[658] Yeah, yeah.

[659] I mean, if you go to, I assume, and by the way, I should just disclose, I'm an investor, so, but Maui -N -E -Venison, if you just, I think you just order on.

[660] How to spell that?

[661] Maui -Newy, N -U -I -Venison.

[662] See if you could find that.

[663] Yeah, see what.

[664] This is, I mean, I can't recommend venison from Axis deer enough.

[665] It is so delicious.

[666] Okay, so this is nice.

[667] I usually, like, get boxes for friends as a gift when they're getting, when they're being introduced to wild game.

[668] I'm like...

[669] Oh, they have bone broth too.

[670] Dude, it's insane.

[671] The bone broth is next level.

[672] This is amazing.

[673] The company that we had do the analysis on the protein content repeated the analysis twice because they didn't believe how much protein it had in it.

[674] 25 grams of protein and a fucking bone broth?

[675] Yeah.

[676] Whoa.

[677] They were like, yeah, yeah, this is 2X every other animal we've ever seen.

[678] There must be a mistake.

[679] They just repeated it over and over again.

[680] Look how delicious that must be.

[681] Let me see that I'll tell you You use this as your stock And make a rice It's insane Oh nice How much does that shit cost I don't know I just buy it as part of it $125 bucks For eight bags Oh eight bags Oh 15 ounces each Oh that's nice I'm in So but what's amazing about this And I think this is why it tastes so good It tastes better than when you and I shoot one Because when you and I shoot an axis deer Even if it's a perfect shot That animal still takes a minute to die In other words, there's still a minute of stress in its life.

[682] Oh, and these guys, they headshot them.

[683] They headshot them at night.

[684] So they're using night vision.

[685] They're 200 yards away.

[686] Silencers.

[687] Yep.

[688] It's, and it's, the animals are so unstressed that if there's like, they'll shoot a group, there'll be 12 of them there, right?

[689] And they'll have the sniper.

[690] He shoots one.

[691] Billy goes down.

[692] The other 11, don't even move.

[693] Wow.

[694] Yeah.

[695] Where'd Billy go?

[696] I don't know.

[697] Boom.

[698] And the next guy gets it.

[699] He's taking a nap.

[700] Yeah.

[701] Wow.

[702] And then they process onset.

[703] So there's a USDA inspector with the sniper for every single shot.

[704] Every carcass is examined.

[705] It has to be a perfect kill.

[706] That's a great way to get meat.

[707] It really is.

[708] If you want to think about an ethical way for you to consume meat, if you're one of those people that doesn't want to buy factory farm meat, get some of that.

[709] I can't, I mean, next to hunting, that is about as good as you can get.

[710] Do you find your taste for, like, non -wild game has gone down?

[711] Well, when I eat a fatty piece of domestic beef, I think if it's like a sloppy, lazy person.

[712] Like I'm like, you know what I mean?

[713] Like if I see an athlete and then I go, wow, that guy looks like he's in shape.

[714] And then I see a sloppy lazy person.

[715] I'm like, poor sloppy.

[716] But I just find that like, and again, we're lucky, right?

[717] We get to hunt these animals.

[718] We get to eat the elk.

[719] We get to eat the access deer.

[720] These are, you know, along with maybe pronghorn and a few others.

[721] This is about as tasty as it gets.

[722] But, boy, I find that even a really nice rib -eye just doesn't taste as good as it did to me five years ago.

[723] Yeah, well, it's missing a lot of, it's missing a lot of nutrition.

[724] It's not, if you look at the dark red meat of elk, like elk, like a backstrap from elk is a dark red, like I took a photo a couple days ago of some backstrap from the elk I shot in California.

[725] This year.

[726] I just cooked it up.

[727] This was your 415.

[728] That giant one.

[729] Yeah, it was huge.

[730] This is so much meat.

[731] And this, this, what I do is I'll cook like a bunch of pieces like that and then I'll eat it throughout the week.

[732] How did you, how did you prep that?

[733] Did you do that on the Traeger?

[734] Yes.

[735] I cook it on a Trager at 265 degrees.

[736] I've tried a bunch of, the reason why it's black on the outside is I'm using a rub called Trager's Saskatchewan.

[737] Yeah, Saskatchewan.

[738] Saskatchewan rub.

[739] That's one of my favorites.

[740] Yeah, it's my favorite for elk.

[741] And so that's not like burnt on the outside.

[742] It's that's the actual rub itself.

[743] But so I take it and I bring the internal temperature up to 120 degrees and then I sear the outside on a cast iron pan.

[744] I usually do maybe a minute and a half on a really hot cast iron pan with beef tallow.

[745] I use grass -fed beef tallow.

[746] And then I pull it.

[747] I let it rest.

[748] I slice it.

[749] And then my family.

[750] we ate a lot of it and then the rest of it I put in like a Tupperware and then I'll eat it throughout the week like because in the morning that's hard for me to get everything in all the stuff that I do and work out and then I'm pretty religious about my sauna and cold plunge so I'm doing I have to allocate 40 minutes to that and so between my workouts and everything and I'm getting up at 7 in the morning and then I'm out here doing the podcast I got to get everything in so i want i want a meal that i could just pull out of the fridge and i in 10 minutes i'm done sit down eat it take my vitamins go and so that's my move i take that elk is absolutely bananas i also like it with um i use uh if you do you ever use any a marxist and stuff is primal kitchen stuff uh i know my kids love his mayo yes yeah that's what i'm gonna talk about.

[751] He's got this Chipotle avocado mayo and it's all avocado oil and it's like a Chipotle pepper seasoning to it.

[752] And I just take some of that and I put a like a fucking pile of it on the plate and I dip the elk in that.

[753] So I'm getting my fats that way because you're not getting much fat.

[754] Yeah, it's no fat.

[755] There's no fat in it.

[756] That's the only thing that's missing from wild game is the fat content.

[757] So you got to get your fat content from somewhere else.

[758] And I'm changing my diet a lot lately and I've basically decided that my love for pasta and my love for bread and sugar it's not worth it like when when I go long stretches of time without eating that stuff and then I eat it the impact is so tangible it's so obvious but it's so casual when you eat it all the time when you eat it all the time you're always eating bread you're always eating pasta it's like you're used to feeling like shit but if you go like three or four weeks with just eating like I'll eat like potatoes tubers I'll eat meat I'll eat salads I like you know salads with I almost always just have olive oil and some sort of a vinaigrette some sort of vinegar and when I eat like that I feel so much better so I've decided like I'm not going to eat any other way anymore like I will give myself like one cheap meal a week.

[759] But the rest of the week, I'm not eating like that.

[760] Like last night, somebody brought cheeseburgers from Golden Tiger to the show at the Vulcan.

[761] And I was like, I'm not eating that.

[762] I'm not eating it.

[763] Did you do similar set to the one a couple of weeks ago that I saw?

[764] Yes.

[765] Dude, that is insane.

[766] Thank you.

[767] You know, to this day, my wife and I still make some of those.

[768] I don't want to do any, I don't let any of the jokes out.

[769] But you know the one I'm talking about, the little.

[770] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[771] Yeah.

[772] Once a day we make that joke.

[773] It's because this is a set that's essentially, well, there's some new stuff in it because there's a lot of COVID stuff.

[774] But there's new, it's basically like the really strong pits are two and a half years old.

[775] Because usually they would have been on a special by now.

[776] But because of COVID, because COVID fucked everybody's tour schedule up and everything just got really polished and tight.

[777] Dude, I don't know if you could hear me, but I was literally embarrassing myself how much I was cackling in the back there.

[778] That's a great room to the Vulcan Gas Company on 6th Street.

[779] It's a great room.

[780] Hey, speaking of, did you end up getting that comedy club?

[781] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[782] Don't say anything though.

[783] I haven't announced where it's or what it is, but yeah, I got that.

[784] The one in Santa Barbara.

[785] No, no, it's on the moon.

[786] No, I'm kidding.

[787] No, I did.

[788] I'm excited.

[789] I'll show you.

[790] I'm taking Ron White on a tour of it this afternoon if you want to come.

[791] I'd love to see it, man. Okay.

[792] Yeah, that's awesome.

[793] Do you have the best backyard range I've ever seen ever?

[794] Dude, it just got better, too.

[795] How did it get better?

[796] I just bought more.

[797] Peter has this range in his backyard because Peter's an archery nut like me and he has, he basically have like a professional archery range in your backyard.

[798] It's like you have hundreds of yards to shoot.

[799] Well, we just bought the lot next to us.

[800] So now it's like we could literally set up a tack.

[801] Oh, wow.

[802] Yeah.

[803] That's cool.

[804] And so what I've done now is I got now elk in the woods.

[805] That's what makes it better.

[806] So now when I was preparing for the elk hunt this year, I was doing most of my shooting was in between trees.

[807] Oh.

[808] Trying to build my confidence at, if you want to shoot something 50 yards away, but you've got two trees like this and a branch going like this.

[809] Right.

[810] Now you've got to, you have to judge, like, well, can I make that shot because of the arc of the arrow?

[811] Do you have a full draw four?

[812] I do.

[813] You do?

[814] Those are this shit.

[815] The loophole has, for people that don't know what we're talking about, loophole has a range finder.

[816] that you put in the weight of your arrow, the weight of the bow, the length of your peep site, everything, you have to put in everything.

[817] Is it a peep site, is that calculated in?

[818] I think it's peep height elevation.

[819] Yeah?

[820] Yep.

[821] Okay.

[822] So you calculate all those things and it will literally show you how high your arrow will be at the peak.

[823] So if you range something, which is what you do, and you dial it in on your site, it'll show you if you're gonna hit a branch or not.

[824] Yeah, it's pretty sweet.

[825] It is.

[826] And you know, they really took care of me because I had the I don't know which one I had one that was like came out a few years earlier and it was okay and then it just stopped working one day it like literally wouldn't it would only range something that was perfectly dark but anything that had like even a bit of brown in it wouldn't range and I sent it back to them and I was like hey can you guys fix it and they're like they just sent me a full draw four no charge wow which is like I mean that's a really expensive range finder it's kind of wild that someone figured out that you could shoot a laser at something and then it'll report back to you how far that laser is touching something what i mean that's amazing but the fact that they can just do angle compensation yeah awesome yeah yeah for people don't know what we're talking about because we went into the full archery nerd mode angle compensation means if you are shooting 50 yards right if the object is 50 yards but it's 50 yards uphill, you will really be shooting more for like, you're probably 57 yards.

[827] You have to, because you're fighting against gravity.

[828] And if you're shooting downhill 50 yards, you're really probably shooting 20 yards because you have no problem with gravity.

[829] It's not existent.

[830] So, you have to use an angle compensating range finder that tells you based on how you're turning the rangefinder, which direction it's going.

[831] whether or not you need to add or subtract yards, and it does it all internally.

[832] It calculates everything.

[833] And the first shot I ever took in my life at an animal went a foot over his back because I had been doing all my practicing with a compensated range finder.

[834] And this was out in Molokai, and it was an Axis deer.

[835] My guide is behind me, and he ranges it, but he is using an old school rangefinder that doesn't have angle compensation.

[836] What?

[837] Yeah.

[838] How's he doing that?

[839] Because he's old school.

[840] That's dumb.

[841] So this animal was, you know, probably 20 yards, 20 degrees down.

[842] Right.

[843] So I just took the distance and assumed it was compensated for and shot.

[844] And it was like, I was like, that was a perfect shot.

[845] Why did it go a foot over that animal?

[846] Yeah.

[847] And I was like, let me see that.

[848] Let me see that range finder.

[849] Yeah, yeah.

[850] And then I realized, I said, Wayne, you don't have angle compensation on here.

[851] He's like, no. I was like, hey, from now on, can you hold my rangefinder?

[852] Yeah, the amount of technology that's involved in bow hunting and just hunting in general now.

[853] I mean, people have watches that have GPS on them and, you know, you could put waypoints and you could track on your phone exactly where the hit was and then, you know, from there on, you could mark where each drop of blood you find is.

[854] So I learned something last year that blew my mind.

[855] And my wife, as a gift, got me a framed picture of Matthew McPherson's patent for the compound bow.

[856] Oh.

[857] And I was like, oh, this is so beautiful.

[858] So it hangs up in my, you know, my archery room.

[859] But here's the thing that blew my mind.

[860] What year do you think that patent was?

[861] I kind of gave it away, because I told you it was Matthew McPherson, so you know it.

[862] I don't know who he is, so you didn't give it away.

[863] Compound bow, I've seen some old shitty ones, and they look like they're from the 60s.

[864] So I'm going to say 55 Yeah, that's what I guess It's 87 Whoa Really?

[865] The patent for the compound bow Is 1987 Wow That's amazing when you think Of how far that Yeah, there it is There it is So you got that at your house Yep What kind of a fucking wizard Figured out a cam For a bow like that And figured out All those strings Dude, I think it's the same guy Who makes Matthew's bows Really?

[866] Yeah, isn't that Who Matthew McPherson is?

[867] It must be, Matthews.

[868] So that's the original bow.

[869] Yeah.

[870] They're still make one of the best bows in the world right now.

[871] You ever shot one of them?

[872] I have never shot one, but it looks amazing.

[873] They're amazing.

[874] Just such a perfect hunting bow, such a short axis, so compact.

[875] Yeah, the new ones are incredible.

[876] Shane Dorian shoots with one.

[877] He loves it.

[878] He was telling me how incredible it is.

[879] There's so many bows now that are just top of the food chain.

[880] It's like I just got the new PSC, that's the carbon fiber.

[881] remember what I was telling you about it's incredible it doesn't even it feels so light it feels fake it's weird when I go back and shoot my Rx3 which is only three years old it feels horrible compared to my Ntn isn't that crazy the cam is so miserable to me yeah so yeah it's we only needed a lot of people with this podcast I bring on a doctor he wants to talk about bocams all right we're done with that we can talk about I don't give a fuck.

[882] It doesn't bother me. Is there any new information in the world of longevity and the world of health or anything that you know of that is exciting?

[883] I mean, two extremes, right?

[884] I think on the one end.

[885] Tell everybody what kind of medicine you practice just so they know.

[886] Oh, so I mean, my practice is basically trying to figure out how to help people live with a greater lifespan.

[887] So how do you add 10, 15 years to how long a person's going to live?

[888] And then how do you improve health span?

[889] So how do you improve?

[890] And your degree is in what kind of medicine?

[891] So I did surgical oncology.

[892] I did general surgery and oncology.

[893] But I left medicine in 2006 and went, you know, did finance and other stuff and completely went away from it until I kind of came back to it about 10 years ago.

[894] Why did you leave it?

[895] I mean, truthfully, I was super frustrated.

[896] frustrated.

[897] In cancer surgery, you're doing kind of like very heroic operations.

[898] I mean, the most technically challenging types of operations, but, you know, half the people still die, right?

[899] So 50 % of people who are going to have surgery, and in some cases more, if you're talking about pancreatic cancer, 80 % of the people whose pancreas gets removed for cancer are going to be dead in five years.

[900] Wow.

[901] So, you know, I just, I just felt like in all regards, I just felt like there wasn't enough in the way of prevention.

[902] And in some ways that is necessary.

[903] I mean, we, because I trained at Hopkins, which is in the inner city, it's a lot of trauma surgery.

[904] So every third night for five years, you're taking care of gunshot wounds.

[905] And we had so many, I mean, Baltimore averaged, at Hopkins, we averaged at the time, I don't know what it's like today.

[906] At the time, it was 16 penetrating traumas a day.

[907] So 16 gunshot wounds or stab wounds a day.

[908] So as a trainee, that's amazing, right?

[909] Like, that's what you're there for.

[910] That's why I went specifically to that program was to be able to learn to operate on people who are shot or stabbed.

[911] But, you know, it does take its toll on you, right?

[912] You just feel like there's no end to this.

[913] Like, I mean, it's a war zone out there.

[914] And, yeah, I mean, there were, I remember there were times when, you know, you'd be a part of, like, a heroic rescue of somebody.

[915] and they go out the door and they come back a week later with a gunshot window to the head and they're dead.

[916] And you're like, ugh, I mean, come on.

[917] So yeah, I was just frustrated with everything in medicine when I left.

[918] I was super pissed.

[919] My wife was like, you know, you bitch and moan about this so much.

[920] I think you have two choices.

[921] You should either fix it or leave.

[922] And I was like, well, I can't fix it, so I'm leaving.

[923] So I left and joined a company called McKinsey and was recruited there to do health care but ended up because my background's in math doing credit risk and this was right as this was like the two years building up to the mortgage meltdown so that became my day job and my night job I mean that was all consuming for two years um was your night job no meaning like we work 24 seven like I we I would run a team of analysts in India during the night and then a team in San Francisco during the day and all day all night we were kind of trying to basically figure out how bad this thing was going to be so you saw it coming Oh, yeah.

[924] How far out?

[925] So by August of 2007, it was clear that the prime market was going to implode.

[926] And I still remember the day Thursday, November 15th, 2007 is when I had a sense of what the magnitude was going to be.

[927] The thing I didn't know was when.

[928] I knew it was going to be the next 18 months, but it wasn't like I could say in September.

[929] which is when it ended up happening, right?

[930] It was 10 months later.

[931] I couldn't say in September the bottom is going to fall out.

[932] Was there anything that could have been done that would have mitigated the impact on the economy and society and, you know, repossessions?

[933] Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question because at the time in November of 07, we, and I want to also be clear, the reason we knew with such clarity how bad this was is we were, we had a client.

[934] Our client was is the largest, I guess I could, probably the largest U .S. home lender in prime real estate.

[935] And we had all the data.

[936] So we're able to see stuff that's not publicly available.

[937] But they didn't see it.

[938] But when we went back and looked at the analysis, we were, we figured out that every, that's starting in 2004, starting in the second quarter of 2004, every loan that was being originated was behaving differently than the entire history of mortgages.

[939] So this is a really interesting analysis.

[940] It's called a vintage analysis.

[941] If you bundle mortgages together and look at how they behave, for all of time, they behave in a certain way.

[942] For about the first 18 months, none of them default.

[943] So 18 months after a person buys a house, historically, there's no chance of default.

[944] Then defaults start to rise.

[945] And they rise for about the next two to three years.

[946] And then they never default again.

[947] So the vintage curve looks like this.

[948] This is cumulative loss rate.

[949] So what's the reason for that?

[950] So the reason nobody defaults in the first 18 months is because historically, you really make sure that the person who you're selling a house to or giving a loan to can afford it.

[951] You do a really extensive background check on them.

[952] And if something's going to go wrong, it's unlikely to go wrong in that first 18 months because of how much you've documented their income and employment and stuff like that.

[953] then you get into an area where some people are going to default.

[954] And then the reason three, four years out, there's no more defaulting is because by that point people have enough equity in their home that if they run into trouble, they can always sell the home and the bank gets their money back.

[955] So again, you go back in time, every vintage curve for every single mortgage looked like this.

[956] Really boring.

[957] We went back and plotted all the vintage curves going back to the year 2000, and they all looked, do, do, do, do, do.

[958] And then in Q2 2004, so you plot these in three month vintages, they started doing this.

[959] Explain to people that are just listening?

[960] Meaning they started to, instead of going up and then flat again, they just kept going up and up and up and up and up.

[961] But they actually did it at an exponential rate.

[962] So they didn't just go up straight.

[963] They would go up exponentially.

[964] In other words, there was no end in sight to the explosion of losses.

[965] So the losses started happening immediately and they never slowed down.

[966] They accelerated with time.

[967] So this is looking at a chain reaction.

[968] And this was one of five models that we built to try to understand what was going on.

[969] And they all pointed in the same direction, which was catastrophic outcomes, basically for loans that became originated after 2004.

[970] So by the time we're in 2007, when we show all this data to them, obviously they didn't believe it, right?

[971] They said, well, because the punchline was horrible.

[972] The punchline was you're going to lose more in the next 18 months than you've made in the last 10 years.

[973] And that was like, you know, they were like, that's not possible.

[974] And I had to be the one to tell the head of the bank, right?

[975] Because even though I was only like, there's an hierarchy at McKinsey, there's like senior partners, junior partners.

[976] And I was just like a lowly manager who ran the analysts.

[977] And the senior partner would normally be the one to present.

[978] such an outrageous finding to the board of a bank.

[979] But he was like, you should present this.

[980] And I said, why?

[981] And he goes, well, you understand the technical details of the model better.

[982] And also, you used to be a cancer surgeon.

[983] So you're used to giving bad news.

[984] I think this is not going to go very well.

[985] So you do this.

[986] And it did not go well.

[987] It was not well received.

[988] They could have done something.

[989] Yes, they absolutely could have done something.

[990] It wouldn't have stopped all the damage, but it would have minimized the damage.

[991] Because remember, there was still another 10 months of horrible loans being originated, horrible loans being securitized, and they were mispriced.

[992] I mean, ultimately, that's the problem with this.

[993] It was just a mispricing game.

[994] They didn't know how to price the risk of the loans they were making.

[995] And how many people were predicting this the way you were?

[996] Well, look, a lot of people way smarter than me were.

[997] predicting it.

[998] Remember, I was an idiot.

[999] All I knew was how bad this was.

[1000] I had no clue how one could make money off this, because I wasn't thinking about it through that lens.

[1001] Oh, I see.

[1002] Some folks were.

[1003] Yeah, if you saw The Big Short, did you ever see that movie?

[1004] No, I did not.

[1005] Oh, so I think it's called The Big Short, right?

[1006] It was, is that it, Jamie?

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] Great movie, because it was actually very accurate.

[1009] Who was in that movie?

[1010] Um.

[1011] Christian Bale plays the guy, the main...

[1012] That's right.

[1013] Kind of found the stuff.

[1014] Yeah, yeah.

[1015] A lot of people are in it.

[1016] Steve Carell Brad Pitt was in it, if I recall.

[1017] It was a really good movie.

[1018] It was actually super accurate in terms of describing what was going on.

[1019] But the, and I remember when it came out, I was able to finally explain to my wife why we weren't billioners.

[1020] Because she was always like, dude, you knew this was happening.

[1021] And yet, like, why do I hear about guys like John Paulson and all these hedge fund guys that made $3 billion on this?

[1022] And I said, ah, this movie will explain why.

[1023] If you know this is happening and the only instrument you have in your mind to make money on, it is shorting equities.

[1024] You can't make money.

[1025] Right.

[1026] In other words, and by the way, ethically, I couldn't have done this because I had inside data of a bank.

[1027] I couldn't have done anything with that information.

[1028] But let's just assume that I could have shorted all the other companies.

[1029] You couldn't have done anything legally or ethically according to your own feeling standards.

[1030] Certainly not ethically.

[1031] I don't know about legally.

[1032] But I could never have shorted this company that I knew inside and out.

[1033] But I could have shorted others.

[1034] But even still, I wouldn't have made a lot of money because, one, shorting equities is really expensive when you don't know when the shoe is going to fall.

[1035] Because you have to make a margin call over and over and over again.

[1036] It's not leveraged, right?

[1037] What these brilliant guys did was they figured out that they could short an option on what was going to happen.

[1038] They could basically short an insurance contract.

[1039] And that was super cheap.

[1040] You're leveraged 1 ,000 to 1.

[1041] at this point, meaning you only have to put a dollar at risk to get $1 ,000 back on something you know is going to happen, and you don't have to really concern yourself with exactly when it's going to happen, at least not in the same cost inefficient way that you have to do with equities.

[1042] Oh, wow.

[1043] So that's what Michael Burry is the guy's name, by the way, that Christian Bale played.

[1044] That's what the Michael Burrys of the world did.

[1045] And there were a handful of these guys that were like, we're going to make up these contracts.

[1046] So they went to banks and said, I want you to sell me a contract that says this thing is going to happen.

[1047] And the banks were like, wait, you want me to sell you a contract that's saying mortgage defaults are going to go up?

[1048] We'll do that all day because that's never happened before.

[1049] Happily.

[1050] Happily, I'll sell you that contract.

[1051] And they price them horribly, meaning in favor of the traders.

[1052] Right.

[1053] It's such a complicated world.

[1054] and I don't know how else you would sell houses to people unless they had enough money to just pay cash for a house, which nobody does.

[1055] Like, how else would you sell a house to people?

[1056] No, I mean, look, it's sort of funny.

[1057] When the whole thing blew up, people said, well, this is because interest rates have been too low for too long.

[1058] So Alan Greenspan became the very convenient bad guy for all of this.

[1059] And it's true.

[1060] Interest rates were a little bit too low for too long.

[1061] But we know today that that's categorically not the thing that drove it.

[1062] Low interest rates are simply the oxygen that's necessary for a fire.

[1063] But we're sitting in a room right now with lots of oxygen.

[1064] There's no fire going on.

[1065] Clearly, oxygen is not the root cause of the problem.

[1066] The root cause of the problem was the absolutely inept lending standards.

[1067] What fostered it was the ability to securitize loans.

[1068] So once you could make a horrible loan and you didn't have to live with it, on your books, you could actually sell it to someone else who didn't understand what you were selling, then it just became out of control.

[1069] It was a scary time, because it was also a scary time where we were really worried that banks were going to fail.

[1070] You know, and there was a lot of people that were saying, let them fail.

[1071] The banks should fail, because we shouldn't prop up these banks, and meanwhile, these people that are these CEOs, they're going to give themselves bonuses, which is so insane.

[1072] Like, even though they lost all this money and they had to be bailed up by the government, these people still got bonuses.

[1073] And I was like, explain to me why they get bonuses.

[1074] They're like, well, these people are very talented and they don't give them bonuses.

[1075] They're going to go somewhere where they do get bonuses.

[1076] I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?

[1077] Like, you guys are a bunch of crooks.

[1078] Like, how did you rig this thing where you fail miserably and yet you still get a bonus?

[1079] I thought you only get a bonus if you're successful.

[1080] Yeah.

[1081] And you got a bonus from taxpayer money?

[1082] But then someone explained to me that the banks.

[1083] paid those loans back quite quickly.

[1084] Is that true?

[1085] It is.

[1086] The TARP program made money for the government.

[1087] So the government extracted a pound of flesh on those loans.

[1088] So the people that said that we should have just let the banks fail, that's not correct.

[1089] In my opinion, that is not correct.

[1090] The collateral damage of that would have been devastating.

[1091] But your other point is also notable.

[1092] So let's not confound two things.

[1093] So if you let the banks fail, everything goes to hell in a hand basket.

[1094] you have a recession that rivals that of 1929.

[1095] That's a bad scenario.

[1096] The way that the TARP program was engineered was to prevent that from happening, but also it wasn't a gift.

[1097] It was, you're going to pay these loans back, which they did.

[1098] But there still, in my opinion, could have been and should have been more clauses in that program that permitted some of the really flagrant abuses that came down the line.

[1099] Like, you know, the AIG guys getting bonuses that they probably shouldn't have got.

[1100] In other words, I think the government basically made the argument, which was, well, if we don't pay these people, they're not going to stick around and we need them to clean up this mess.

[1101] And my view is, I bet enough good people would have stuck around without having to pay so many people so much.

[1102] And by the way, the people that really needed the bonuses were not the CEOs.

[1103] Like, they're not the ones doing the work, right?

[1104] Right.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] And so you do this and how do you change?

[1107] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1108] So, yeah.

[1109] So basically, actually, everything for me changed from my.

[1110] daughter was born.

[1111] So my daughter was born 13 years ago and I'm 35.

[1112] And I mean, I'm sure you can relate to this, but at least for me, that was the moment when I first cared about living longer.

[1113] I just, it was the first moment I had a thought beyond myself and thought like, oh my God, like, I remember when my wife was pregnant.

[1114] I was like not that excited about it.

[1115] I was kind of like, we had a cat at the time and I loved this cat.

[1116] And I remember saying to my wife, I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to love our daughter as much as I love Midnight, our little cat.

[1117] My wife was like, are you crazy?

[1118] And of course, the second Olivia was born, I was like obsessed with her.

[1119] And then I was like, I gotta figure this out because, you know, every male in my family has died of heart disease except one.

[1120] Really?

[1121] I have horrible genes for heart disease.

[1122] What causes heart disease genetically?

[1123] Like, what is it?

[1124] Well, the most common genetic driver of heart disease is something called L .P. Little A. So one in about 10 people, somewhere between 1 in 8 and 1 in 12, so call it 1 in 10 people.

[1125] 10 % of people have a gene called LPA that makes too much of this lipoprotein called L -P -L -A, which you've heard of L -D -L -D -L -L -D -L -L -A.

[1126] So L -D -L -L -A is this atherogenic lipoprotein.

[1127] L -A is an L -D -L -L -A that has another protein wrapped on it called APO -L -L -L -A, and it makes it much worse.

[1128] So the single most common genetic, the single most common hereditary driver of cardiovascular disease is elevated L .P. L .P. L .A. And a tragic thing is most doctors don't even know what it is.

[1129] So this is one of the things I have more podcasts on this topic than any other because it's inexcusable to me that a patient doesn't know that they have an elevated LP little A. This is a screening test we should do on children.

[1130] So that's number one.

[1131] After that, it gets much more complicated.

[1132] Heart disease is wildly polygenic.

[1133] So LPA is one rare example that's not polygenic, meaning there is just one gene that drives LPA.

[1134] But when you start to get into something like familial hypercholestrolemia, which is also kind of common, that's any set of genes.

[1135] And there are over 3 ,000 mutations that produce elevated LDL through one form or another.

[1136] That becomes another huge driver of genetic inheritance.

[1137] But what's scary, at least for someone like me, is it's really clear when you look at my family history.

[1138] Heart disease is a problem.

[1139] I don't have anything recognizable.

[1140] Meaning, I don't have L .P. Little A. I don't have familial hyperclostrolemia.

[1141] I don't have any of the few known genes that are really driving this.

[1142] My cholesterol levels were never really that heavy to begin with.

[1143] My LDL, which is kind of an irrelevant, stupid metric anyway.

[1144] But even if you looked at my APOB, which is the metric you're supposed to be looking at, was never through the roof.

[1145] But when I was 35, I went and had a calcium scan.

[1146] So it's a CT scan, looks at your heart.

[1147] and I had a score of six.

[1148] Now, six is not a high number on a calcium scan, but when you're 35, that places you at the 90th percentile.

[1149] So that was like the, I got to figure this shit out.

[1150] I'm going to devote the rest of my life to understanding how to not die of heart disease.

[1151] And then ultimately, so my first focus became an obsession with cardiovascular disease, which lasted about four years.

[1152] And then I realized, like, well, there's no benefit in not dying of cardiovascular disease if you're going to still die of cancer or dementia or something like that.

[1153] that.

[1154] So then my obsession and interest just expanded through all of that.

[1155] What did you do to keep yourself from being at the risk of dying from cardiovascular disease?

[1156] Well, I mean, it came down to reverse engineering what is driving cardiovascular disease, which is the most ubiquitous killer, right?

[1157] So there's no developed nation for which cardiovascular disease isn't the number one killer.

[1158] Really?

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] So hands down.

[1161] Only developed nations.

[1162] Yeah.

[1163] Once you get out of developed nations, infections and other things sort of start to overcome that.

[1164] Do they suffer from cardiovascular diseases and like when you're dealing with like tribal communities?

[1165] Yeah, definitely not to the same extent.

[1166] What's the factor?

[1167] Well, I mean, I think there's a couple things, right?

[1168] One could be they're not living as long, so we're not seeing it as much.

[1169] And we don't really have great autopsy data on people who are dying in their 40s and 50s from infections and other things like that.

[1170] But, you know, it could be, you know, that obviously they just don't have the same toxins in their food system that we do, right?

[1171] They're probably not eating half the refined crap that we eat.

[1172] Yeah, that's what it's going to get to.

[1173] Like, how much of an impact do you think that stuff does have?

[1174] I think it has a significant impact, for sure.

[1175] So, but, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so Atherosclerosis is really driven by lipoproteins first and foremost.

[1176] So this apob, anything that carries this APOB protein on it, so that's the LDL, an LP, little A, a VLDL, that's the, that's the, that's the, that is the necessary, but not sufficient element to drive atherosclerosis.

[1177] Um, anything that impairs endothelial function, so high blood pressure, high glucose, high insulin, high homocysteine, all that stuff, problematic, anything that amplifies inflammation, all the things.

[1178] So basically, I just said, okay, well, we're just going to take a no -holds -barred approach to addressing all of those things.

[1179] And, you know, that's why I sit here today and I can say, look, between now and when I'm 60, the one thing I know I'm not going to die of is atherosclerosis.

[1180] I would say that in the next 10 years, my greatest risk of death is, you know, motor vehicle accident and cancer.

[1181] Those would be the two hardest things to mitigate.

[1182] Now, why is it so difficult to mitigate cancer?

[1183] Well, for one, of the big diseases, it's the one for which I think we have the least idea of what the risk factors are.

[1184] So the big three, in terms of death, is atherosclerosis, cancer, and neurodegeneration.

[1185] With cancer, it's also very polygenic, and what's that mean?

[1186] Lots of genes are involved.

[1187] So if I did a genetic test, if I had your entire genome in front of me, it wouldn't tell me much about your risk for cancer.

[1188] So the genes that are driving it are also not germline.

[1189] They're somatic, meaning they're inherited mutations.

[1190] Okay.

[1191] So one of the few things we know about cancer is the earlier you can detect it, the better.

[1192] That's a truism that is becoming almost impossible to argue.

[1193] So you're always better off finding a cancer when you have a, 100 million cells that are cancerous versus 10 billion cells that are cancerous.

[1194] Right.

[1195] So, and our tools for screening are somewhat limited.

[1196] Now, they're getting better.

[1197] So to your question earlier, what's one of the things I'm excited about?

[1198] I think liquid biopsies are something in the last year that we have become very excited about.

[1199] So all of our patients get these things called liquid biopsies, which is a blood test that measures something called cell -free DNA.

[1200] So we're looking for tumor DNA in the bloodstream.

[1201] So meaning at very low levels of tumor burden, you can still pick it up by getting some of this cell -free DNA floating around your bloodstream.

[1202] So it's literally like you'd take a tube of blood and you can say, oh, there's actually like some pancreatic cancer here or some colon cancer here or breast cancer here.

[1203] And then you go looking for that cancer.

[1204] Wow.

[1205] Because there are false positives, of course, when you do these things.

[1206] So you can't think of screening as just one thing you do.

[1207] got to be layered, kind of like a Swiss cheese approach.

[1208] You want to have as many pieces of Swiss cheese lined up as possible so that one and only one pencil fits through the hole.

[1209] And you know you get a signal with your cancer detection.

[1210] So this one test just from a tube of blood, can, is this, how new is this?

[1211] I don't even know if it's technically approved yet.

[1212] I know that we're doing it.

[1213] Certain physicians are being allowed to do it in the context of having a very comprehensive approach to follow up with patients.

[1214] So because we, you know, our tests, our patients are doing it in the context of a billion other things.

[1215] So there's not as much of a concern from the part of the FDA.

[1216] But I don't think this is fully FDA approved yet.

[1217] But it's very recent.

[1218] We've been doing it only six months.

[1219] Wow.

[1220] I mean, I had my, I did mine in April.

[1221] I was probably one of the first people to do it.

[1222] Did you get nervous?

[1223] I mean, no. I mean, I was kind of like, look, it's so much more important to me to know I have cancer than to put my head in the sand and not know.

[1224] Right.

[1225] Yeah.

[1226] Of course.

[1227] But every time I go and get this diffusion weighted image MRI, which is this very particular type of MRI that's uniquely tuned to detect cancer and getting a blood test like this or getting a colonoscopy, which I'm very aggressive with, all of these things, yeah, there's always a moment of, just let me come out clean.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] Yeah.

[1230] God.

[1231] So you are, you have these concerns about longevity.

[1232] You have these concerns about cardiovascular health and cancer.

[1233] And so what prompts you to start your practice and re, you know.

[1234] Yeah, relearn everything.

[1235] Reemerge into medicine.

[1236] I just, there was nothing else I could think about.

[1237] Like at the time, I had left that one company where I was doing all the energy stuff or where I was doing all the finance stuff.

[1238] And I went to join an energy company.

[1239] So now I was like working.

[1240] on like a renewable form of oil.

[1241] So, and it was really...

[1242] Renewable form of oil.

[1243] Yeah, so this is a company that was using, we were using algae and genetically programming the algae to spit out a fungible form of oil.

[1244] Wow.

[1245] So meaning it would produce a distillate, a cut of distillate that could be refined into gasoline and jet fuel.

[1246] Whoa, from algae.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] How effective is that?

[1249] Well, ultimately, ultimately it could not be done at cost.

[1250] So, I mean, I left after four years, that company went on for another four years, but it just couldn't be done at the price of where oil was, which at the time was like 50 bucks a barrel.

[1251] I wanted to talk to you about this is a little bit of a deviation, but it's not really.

[1252] I wanted to talk to you about Theranos, because I am fucking completely obsessed with that lady and her scam company.

[1253] Dude, did you know that I was almost the chief medical officer?

[1254] of that company?

[1255] No. Yeah, dude.

[1256] So in 2006, my McKinsey office, which was in Palo Alto, was on the same, was on page mill, which was one street over from where Theranos was located.

[1257] So Theranos at the time was a super small company.

[1258] So a good friend of mine, his father -in -law was on the board and knew Elizabeth Holmes very well.

[1259] He was her professor at Stanford.

[1260] And the company was small at that time.

[1261] It was like maybe 30 people there.

[1262] like that.

[1263] And he said, look, I, you know, I want you, my friend to potentially look at this company because they could really use a CFO.

[1264] And he was in private equity at the time, really smart guy.

[1265] And to make lunch or short, I got introduced to Elizabeth.

[1266] So I went down and had lunch with her one day.

[1267] Did you ever catch her talking in a real voice?

[1268] You know, it's so, I don't remember.

[1269] I met her later and she already had the fake voice, but I can't remember that day what her voice was like I wish I could remember but you know it's like 15 years ago right I would remember if it was like I don't think it was I think it must have talked like this I would say what is going on yeah yeah yeah have you had throat cancer I don't what are you doing I think she was she must have been talking a normal voice but here's what interested me I sat down in the office and she pulled out a black box that was I don't know if it was called Edison at the time or if it was the precursor to what would become Edison um diagnostics is not something I knew a ton about, but, you know, I'd spent two years at the NIH, and I certainly understand how chemical reagents work, and I understand how chemical assays work, and I know how, for example, and Eliza works, and Eliza is a type of assay that you do to measure something, but it requires a lot of washing and rinsing and repeating.

[1270] And I know that many biomarkers that are of interest, for example, something like insulin, you know, if you want to measure a person's insulin level, you have to do these types of assays, right?

[1271] So I was saying to her, you know, Elizabeth, I don't understand how you could put a drop of blood in here and get anything out that's more interesting than glucose, hemoglobin, sodium, and potassium, the really simple things that can work, you know, that can be measured off a drop of blood.

[1272] And she kind of gave me some answer.

[1273] And I said, well, can I see the inside of the box?

[1274] And she said, absolutely not.

[1275] And I said, well, I've signed an NDA.

[1276] You know, I had to sign an NDA to get in the building.

[1277] So she was like, no. So I just decided.

[1278] that I wasn't interested in the company because I couldn't get sort of straight answers from her.

[1279] So I ended up not doing it.

[1280] So fast forward to 20, this was 2006.

[1281] Fast forward to 2015.

[1282] She's now on the cover of Forbes.

[1283] And you're like, well, no, no, I remember one day saying to my wife, because she was on the cover of Forbes and the company was valued a little over $9 billion.

[1284] And I said to my wife, do you know how much we would be worth if I had taken that job now?

[1285] And she's like, how much?

[1286] And I told her, and she's like, good, God.

[1287] And so I'm at the Vanity Fair event in San Francisco.

[1288] This, by, I didn't know it at the time.

[1289] This was a week before the Wall Street Journal article would fall.

[1290] John Cario's article that was the one that kind of unraveled all of Theronos in October of 2015.

[1291] And what, how did he figure it out?

[1292] How did this one guy figure out that it was all?

[1293] So I haven't read his book, Bad Blood.

[1294] But I saw the documentary, so, you know, that's like a poor man's version of it.

[1295] But basically just interviewing people who were formerly employees of the company.

[1296] Oh, so they were bean spillers.

[1297] Yeah.

[1298] And they were basically like, yeah, this is a total scam.

[1299] Oh, my God.

[1300] And so sure enough, I'm at this reception because she's the speaker of the event.

[1301] So she's like it's a four -day conference and she's the one everyone there, Zeresee.

[1302] So I'm sitting at a table and I'm having a cocktail.

[1303] and she walks up and she and I said hey Elizabeth you probably don't remember me she goes no I remember you exactly and she remembered my name and even remembered how I had been introduced to her I was like really blown away we exchanged pleasantries she gave me her card and then a week later it all unraveled and it's really funny I still have the card you should frame it yeah yeah yeah she must have known oh the shit was hitting the fan no no she totally did yeah because the shit was hitting the fan six months earlier what does one do and it's not like you can live liquidate, right?

[1304] Like, if you're worth $9 billion, but it's all stock and you know the product is nonsense, you can't even get out.

[1305] Well, it's a private company.

[1306] So at best, you know, she could have along the way been doing secondaries off her take, but.

[1307] Oh, so it wasn't even, yeah.

[1308] Yeah.

[1309] Jesus Christ, that was wild.

[1310] It's just when you, when you, I'm obsessed with this podcast.

[1311] It's out now called the dropout and they update weekly with the trial results.

[1312] Oh, I need to check that out because it's great.

[1313] Yeah, yeah.

[1314] So tell me that.

[1315] How is it looking?

[1316] Is it, is the prosecution looking like they're going to win this?

[1317] Oh, yeah.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] Yeah, they have falsified documents.

[1320] They pretended that they got a document from Pfizer.

[1321] They put Pfizer's name on a document.

[1322] And it was an internal document.

[1323] And it was basically substantiating the machine, the Edison machine and all the possibilities that it could.

[1324] She also lied about military use.

[1325] The department.

[1326] I remember that.

[1327] Yeah.

[1328] They have her on.

[1329] to stand lying or have her on the stand admitting that she lied because there was recorded.

[1330] Is she taken the stand yet?

[1331] I believe so.

[1332] I mean, she's, she's, there's definitely moments in the podcast where she's being interviewed where she's being forced to ask, answer questions.

[1333] Oh, but this might have been the civil deposition.

[1334] Could have been.

[1335] Yeah, maybe.

[1336] I don't know, but this is in the middle of the current trial.

[1337] So I'm not sure because it's like, it's a really well produced podcast and it has narration and music and all this stuff.

[1338] The dropout.

[1339] Yes, it's very good.

[1340] And it also predates.

[1341] See, they picked up when the trial came back.

[1342] So the beginning episodes of the dropout all detail the scam and all detail all the stuff that was going on, the people that were working, they were slowly figuring out, like, what the fuck are we doing here?

[1343] And then it went away for a while and then came back during the trial.

[1344] So now it's detailing all the things that the prosecution is finding.

[1345] Oh, so it must be, no, it's not the civil trial.

[1346] It is the current trial because they were specifically discussing these documents that they had put Pfizer's label on.

[1347] So they made it look like this document was coming from Pfizer, like saying, oh, this stuff is amazing.

[1348] But really, it was just internal from Theranos.

[1349] It's wild.

[1350] One of the things that I love about it is I'm always fascinated by con artists.

[1351] and cult leaders and people who managed to pull the wool over people's eyes.

[1352] But when people do it in a clumsy way and still get really far, like, she was clumsy.

[1353] She wasn't just a little clumsy.

[1354] She was like, she was a, it was, I, you know how I got obsessed with this?

[1355] This is really weird.

[1356] She was giving a speech.

[1357] And this was before I had any idea that there was anything wrong with the company.

[1358] Oh, so this is pre -15.

[1359] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[1360] Before she got caught, she was giving some speech.

[1361] at some women's women's group some like you know exceptional women we're all getting together and they were all you know and she gave us this speech and this speech was so bad that I was fascinated I was like that's a moron like this is not a smart person like this is not this is a dumb clunky speech because I'm a I'm a professional orator I mean that's what I do I talk you know and so when I see someone that's talking and she's basically these women are amazing all you amazing women I'm just so pro amazing women is that the speech let me hear this dumb speech I'm so incredibly humbled and so honored to be with this incredible group of women I want to just take a minute to say especially to the young women in the room here do everything you can to be the best in science and math and engineering.

[1362] It's our actions that will determine this new stereotype around women being the best in science and technology and engineering.

[1363] And it's that that our little girls will see when they start to think about who do they want to be when they grow up.

[1364] Okay.

[1365] I saw that.

[1366] I'm like, that's a moron.

[1367] That's a moron.

[1368] You want women to be the best at science and engineering and math.

[1369] Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[1370] You want one gender to be the best as science and engineering and math and you want women, just do your best to be the best.

[1371] I was like, oh my God, that's an idiot.

[1372] And so I got obsessed with her.

[1373] So when that was going on, that's when I got obsessed.

[1374] And then when the fucking scam got released was the Washington Post?

[1375] Wall Street Journal.

[1376] I was like, aha!

[1377] I fucking called it.

[1378] I knew something was off.

[1379] I remember watching that and going, what is, what, how, how?

[1380] Like, I would hear Steve Jobs talk.

[1381] The one thing I could never understand, but it wasn't enough.

[1382] I just didn't care enough, but in retrospect, it was so obvious.

[1383] There was not a single person who understood the laboratory space on her board.

[1384] Oh.

[1385] So remember, her board was the who's who, right?

[1386] You had General Mattis, you had Henry Kissinger, you had Dick Kovosovic.

[1387] I mean, she had the most all -star corporate board in the history of boards.

[1388] Not one of these guys knew the difference between a pipette and a microscope.

[1389] Ooh.

[1390] Like, that's a red flag.

[1391] Yeah, that's smart, though.

[1392] That's the smart con. Right.

[1393] The other thing that got me was the affectation, the, like, the detail of the wardrobe and, like, the outfit that she was like...

[1394] She was...

[1395] She was the little jobs.

[1396] Yeah, she was clearly a little.

[1397] But when you heard Steve Jobs talk, Steve Jobs had a vision.

[1398] Here's my vision.

[1399] This is what I think can happen.

[1400] And he would talk and you go, well, that's a brilliant, completely obsessed man. Like, this is, this person is very brilliant.

[1401] And it makes sense that this is the head of this incredibly innovative company.

[1402] When I heard to her talk, I was like, who's this idiot that you have talking?

[1403] Like, this is not a person that spent a lot of time thinking, right?

[1404] Like, they, if you went to college for a long period of time and really worked on your, you know, your, your, your grammar and your understanding of the correct use of language to inspire and challenge people's ideas, that's not the fucking speech you'd give, right?

[1405] That was pretty bad.

[1406] It was terrible.

[1407] But it wasn't just terrible.

[1408] It was clunky.

[1409] And it was something about it from, for me that, like, it made me think, like, what's going on here?

[1410] That doesn't make any sense.

[1411] And then I thought, well, maybe she's just awkward when she speaks publicly.

[1412] You know, you have those initial impressions.

[1413] And they go, well, maybe I'm just fucking reading into it wrong.

[1414] Because I've been wrong before, but not that time.

[1415] So I just when, I'm fascinated that she wouldn't let you look into the box.

[1416] Because I guess if you looked into the box, you would immediately be able to be.

[1417] I don't know that I would have.

[1418] I don't want to overstate my credentials.

[1419] I'm not a clinical chemist.

[1420] She could have duped me, I'm sure.

[1421] But she didn't I mean and again we're under NDA.

[1422] We're talking about me joining her company as a chief medical officer like Right.

[1423] How are you not going to let me see inside this freaking box?

[1424] Like what do you want?

[1425] How am I going to do my job?

[1426] How could she have duped you though if she's not technically Astute like she doesn't really understand it?

[1427] I don't know she could I mean look she Presumably duped people smarter than me, right?

[1428] I think she duped this is what drives me crazy I think she duped people from the image.

[1429] I think they wanted to believe they wanted to believe they want to to believe that here was this female wonder kind who left Stanford at 19 years old, dropped out of school, and figured out this amazing technology, and along the way became, at least until she got busted, the richest self -made woman ever.

[1430] She was worth, I think, like, her own personal - Yeah.

[1431] Crazy.

[1432] Crazy.

[1433] And she just faked it.

[1434] And one of the ways she got busted was people from college that she went to school with were like, why are you talking like that?

[1435] Like what's happening?

[1436] And then people started hearing that that wasn't her real voice.

[1437] And then people started like, there were rumors and murmurs.

[1438] There's so many layers to that story.

[1439] Oh, man, no doubt.

[1440] Yeah, it's a fascinating one.

[1441] It really is.

[1442] It's such an interesting story.

[1443] So for you, when all that was going down, that must have been incredibly sweet.

[1444] Because now you don't have to think, man, I missed out on all that money.

[1445] Yeah, for sure.

[1446] And I was also, I felt a little bit validated.

[1447] Like, okay, there was a reason she didn't want to show me the inside of the box.

[1448] Right.

[1449] Yeah.

[1450] It might have been empty.

[1451] It literally might have been empty.

[1452] It was candy in there.

[1453] It's a giant, like, little thing.

[1454] Dude, she got so many people.

[1455] She got Betsy DeVos for like a hundred million.

[1456] And poor General Mattis.

[1457] The guy didn't have two nickels to rub together when he gets out of the military.

[1458] He put, like, a couple hundred K in or something obscene for him.

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] Fuck.

[1461] Crazy.

[1462] Whenever someone comes to me, like some guy came to me with some crazy, I mean, I don't know if it's real, so I don't want to talk about it.

[1463] Like, say it specifically.

[1464] But if it's true, it sounds like this guy's going to revolutionize a form of travel.

[1465] And so he's telling me about this.

[1466] I was like, wow.

[1467] And then I said to my business manager who was with me at the time, I go, don't ever forget about Theranos.

[1468] Whenever someone tells you something, the moment someone tells me, I go, yeah, yeah, when it happens, I believe you.

[1469] I don't want to be involved.

[1470] involved in any groundbreaking shit before it actually launched, especially in some area where I'm completely ignorant.

[1471] And what am I to do?

[1472] Just start going to school, try to figure out engineering, think of this guy saying something that's actually possible and plausible?

[1473] Nah, can't do it.

[1474] Not interested, buddy.

[1475] So for you, though, when it did come out, though, there had to be like a cool feeling of satisfaction.

[1476] There had to be a little something there where you're like, oh.

[1477] I mean, the first person I called was my buddy, the guy who had introduced me to her way back.

[1478] And I was like, dude, what are the dinner conversations like?

[1479] And he's like, oh, dude, it's not good.

[1480] Because his father -in -law was still in the believing camp.

[1481] Oh, no. Oh, yeah.

[1482] They talk about him in the, yeah.

[1483] Oh, fuck.

[1484] So it was.

[1485] So he got duped long after the jig was up, right?

[1486] Yeah.

[1487] Again, I don't know the details, but it was, I was like, man. Fuck.

[1488] It's good that we didn't do that.

[1489] It's one of the great scams of our time because you have to wonder how they ever thought they were going to get away with it.

[1490] There really was no technology.

[1491] There really was nothing that was capable of doing what they were saying it was going to be able to be done.

[1492] Yeah, there's an interesting psychology there, right?

[1493] On any given day, it's not a crisis, right?

[1494] Like, you can always fake it for one more day, right?

[1495] Right.

[1496] So what's the end?

[1497] Like, what's the end game?

[1498] How do they not have cancer?

[1499] If stress gives you cancer, imagine the stress of, like, duping people out of nine billion, and you're sitting around knowing that your voice is fake, and you're wearing a black turtleneck, and people that you went to college with are like, hey, that bitch doesn't even talk like that.

[1500] I hear the text messages between her and Sunny were pretty funny.

[1501] Because I read an article that said, if you really want to incentivize people to not commit crime, just let them know that all of their cheesy text messages are going to be.

[1502] made public.

[1503] Oh, wow.

[1504] Apparently there's just some super embarrassing idiotic text messages.

[1505] He drove a Lamborghini to the office, too, which is also hilarious.

[1506] It's just so crazy.

[1507] But it just shows you that there is this incredible market for people to try to optimize their health and try to figure out what's wrong with them.

[1508] And if you can make it more simple than it actually is, which is really, it's like, I don't even, that's the other thing about it.

[1509] It wasn't that freaking interesting.

[1510] Right.

[1511] Like, who cares if there's a little box that I can put a drop of blood on that tells me what my CBC and Chem 7 and, you know, pick your other panel.

[1512] It's like, that's not that interesting.

[1513] Okay, yes, it's a little more convenient than going to lab core and giving a tube of blood.

[1514] What's interesting is what you do with that knowledge.

[1515] What do you do with that information?

[1516] Well, I think what was interesting for what she was providing was Safeway was going to buy into it.

[1517] Was it Walgreens?

[1518] Yeah, Walgreens.

[1519] And so Walgreens, I believe, backed out.

[1520] I think they realized somewhere along the line that she was full of shit.

[1521] And there was some text messages and emails that they read out from the CEO because he had retired before it ever came to fruition and then they backed out of it.

[1522] But Safeway wanted to put them all in the stores.

[1523] And so you could be able to go shopping for food, get your blood taken a little tiny pinprick and find out if anything's wrong with you right there and that.

[1524] But again, it still comes down to having somebody that can actually tell you what's wrong.

[1525] And by the way, the stuff that was relevant, it's not like they were going to measure LP -P -L -P -A.

[1526] It's not like you're going to tell you your APO -E -4 status.

[1527] It's not like they're going to tell you, like, of the 10 most relevant things that I would look at in somebody's blood, they weren't measuring any of them.

[1528] Is APO -E4 the stuff that makes you more susceptible to CTE?

[1529] It probably makes you more susceptible to C -T -E.

[1530] It definitely makes you more susceptible to Alzheimer's disease.

[1531] But it's a, you know, today we know it's more nuanced.

[1532] We know that there are other genes that can be protective and can completely abrogate the effect of APOE4, which is the, that's the gene that's the more risky one.

[1533] When you hear about, I don't know what the gene is, but there is a gene that predisposes someone to breast cancer.

[1534] Braca.

[1535] Is that what it is?

[1536] Yeah.

[1537] And when Angelina Jolie actually had her breast removed as a preemptive measure, does that make sense to you?

[1538] Yeah.

[1539] Really?

[1540] Yeah.

[1541] Wow.

[1542] So it's that possible?

[1543] It's depending on, there's two variants of the gene, but it can.

[1544] have up to a 80 or 90 % lifetime incidence of breast cancer.

[1545] Wow.

[1546] And what's even more frightening is the ovarian cancer because, you know, a woman suffers far more from a prophylactic euphorectomy than a mastectomy.

[1547] And from an endocrine perspective, I mean socially, obviously, there's challenges of a mastectomy.

[1548] But from an endocrine perspective, if you took a 35 -year -old woman and just took her ovaries out, you're putting her in menopause.

[1549] Wow.

[1550] So the Consequences are huge.

[1551] As far as the way she feels, moods, things, behavior.

[1552] Oh, my God, it's devastating.

[1553] That gene that predisposes a woman to breast cancer, would you say it was again?

[1554] Braca.

[1555] How common is that?

[1556] Oh, that's a good question.

[1557] It's not that common.

[1558] It is not remotely common as far as the leading, you know, I mean, breast cancer is obviously a pretty common cancer as a pretty common cancer to women.

[1559] I would guess that 5 % maybe would be BRCA associated, if not less.

[1560] And is her action of doing that?

[1561] Is that a common move now?

[1562] I'm certainly seeing more women who are BRCA positive undergoing prophylactic mastectomy.

[1563] And when they undergo this prophylactic mastectomy, they actually can retain the initial appearance of breast now.

[1564] Like, so they do it knowing that they're going to do that, and then they replace it with a breast.

[1565] Yep, they put it in, yeah, that's right.

[1566] That's, uh, fuck, that's one thing that dudes don't have to think about breast cancer.

[1567] Yeah, I mean, I guess the equivalent for males is prostate cancer in terms of like a gender -specific cancer.

[1568] And so if you look, like lung cancer is the number one killer for both men and women in terms of death rate.

[1569] More than heart attacks?

[1570] Oh, no, no, I'm sorry, within cancer.

[1571] Heart attack is still number one.

[1572] But, you know, breast and prostate are very high up on the list of killing along with colon cancer.

[1573] Those are sort of your big three.

[1574] Prostate cancer is a bit complicated because every man will die with prostate cancer.

[1575] Some will die from it.

[1576] Whoa.

[1577] Every man will die with some.

[1578] Yeah, if you live long enough, absolutely.

[1579] By the time you're 50, like you and I, you and I, there's a greater than 50 % chance one of us has prostate cancer right now.

[1580] Holy shit.

[1581] So if you and I were killed in the car accident tomorrow and they took our prostates out and sectioned them up, the likelihood that they would find prostate cancer cells in one of us is at least 50%.

[1582] And those cells may or may not be a problem.

[1583] Statistically speaking, they're not going to be a problem.

[1584] Because remember this.

[1585] With the exception of the brain, you don't die from cancer unless it spreads.

[1586] So the brain is the one exception of that rule, right?

[1587] If you have brain cancer, it can kill you just.

[1588] in your brain.

[1589] But if you have lung cancer, or let's use prostate cancer or breast cancer, a woman never dies because breast cancer invades her breast.

[1590] She dies because it spreads to her brain, her bones, her lungs, her liver.

[1591] Same with prostate cancer.

[1592] Prostate cancer almost always spreads to the bone, and that's the only time you die.

[1593] So if prostate cancer stays in the prostate, there's no death.

[1594] If someone has a very small amount of prostate cancer, is there a thing that they can do to mitigated spread?

[1595] Oh, absolutely, yeah.

[1596] So you can remove the prostate surgically.

[1597] This is a technique that was pioneered by a guy named Pat Walsh at Johns Hopkins in the 1980s.

[1598] And it wasn't that taking out the prostate was hard.

[1599] It was taking it out while preserving sexual function was really hard.

[1600] Because the neurovascular bundle of Walsh, which is now it bears his name, which is what controls erectile function, wraps around the thing you're trying to cut out.

[1601] Oh, Jesus.

[1602] So it's like, how do you, cut this gland out without taking out all of the nervous tissue that you need to maintain an erection.

[1603] And so basically, prior to Walsh, you were almost guaranteed to never be able to get an erection after you had your prostate taken out.

[1604] So you were staring down the barrel of not two very attractive choices.

[1605] So how many guys went out in their shield?

[1606] Yeah.

[1607] I'm keeping my heart out.

[1608] I'll die young.

[1609] Yeah.

[1610] So the goal is to basically identify a with prostate cancer, who has the variant that's going to spread.

[1611] So today, this has been, I mean, there's been so much progress in this field.

[1612] So we use a blood test called a 4K score.

[1613] So, you know what a PSA is?

[1614] You've probably had your PSA checked a bunch of times.

[1615] So PSA by itself is not a great blood test.

[1616] You have to use more information than just the PSA.

[1617] You have to know the PSA velocity and the PSA density.

[1618] So the velocity is what's the rate of change of the PSA, and the density is dividing the PSA by the prostate volume.

[1619] So if you get an MRI or an ultrasound, you can tell the volume of the prostate in grams or the volume, and then you can turn it into grams.

[1620] So you normalize PSA to volume or mass, and you have a density.

[1621] And those two things become more suggestive.

[1622] So once the PSA starts to look a little bit suspicious, and once it gets over about four, we do this 4K blood test, which is another form of liquid biopsy.

[1623] and that gives you a much more interesting number.

[1624] It basically tells you what's the probability that this person is going to have metastatic prostate cancer, not just prostate cancer.

[1625] And if that 4K number is above a certain threshold, I think 7 .5%, the probability that they're going to have metastatic prostate cancer approaches 85, 90%.

[1626] What are your thoughts on ketogenic diets in relation to cancer?

[1627] Like there's been a lot of articles written about the idea that cancer needs glucose to survive and then if you can keep your body functioning off of ketones, it's less likely that you get cancer.

[1628] Does that make sense?

[1629] Yeah, no, definitely.

[1630] I mean, you know, I was on a ketogeniciteite for three years.

[1631] Yeah, I know you were.

[1632] And so I was super steeped in all of this stuff.

[1633] What made you get off of it?

[1634] It became just really different.

[1635] I mean, I was so strict.

[1636] I didn't take a day off.

[1637] I took one day off in three years.

[1638] But the stuff I had to give up, like, even, like, one of my favorite things is stir fry.

[1639] Like, I love huge curry stir fry that I make.

[1640] And even something that's that, it's just vegetables, but it was still too much to keep in, it was too much carbohydrate to stay in ketosis.

[1641] Oh.

[1642] So I just kind of missed.

[1643] And also at that point, I was switching more from ultra -distance swimming and stuff into shorter distance swimming.

[1644] Like I was doing more, you know, pool racing and more just, shorter distance stuff.

[1645] Also on the bike, I was going less from kind of ultra -distance bike stuff to, you know, like a 20 -kilometer race or a 40 -kilometer race.

[1646] So as you move towards that new energy system, you just need more carbohydrates.

[1647] But anyway, to your question, I think there's an awesome theoretical argument for it, but it's also important to understand that even when you're on a ketogenic diet, your glucose isn't zero.

[1648] So it's all about probabilistic reduction, right?

[1649] you know, it's keeping insulin lower.

[1650] That probably has a greater effect than keeping glucose lower.

[1651] Because if you're on a ketogenic diet and you're not on a ketogenic diet, we're talking about a difference of one millimolar in glucose.

[1652] So it's probably more the presence of the ketone, the reduction of the insulin, if anything, that's having a role.

[1653] What I think is most interesting is not just a ketogenic diet.

[1654] It's when you combine it with a drug called a P .I .3 kinase inhibitor, which is a drug that blocks a very important power, for cancer to grow, but has one escape valve, which is it raises insulin.

[1655] So that's a bad thing if you're trying to minimize cancer.

[1656] So when you combine a ketogenic diet with a PI3 kinase inhibitor, at least in animal studies, which is about the extent of where this has been studied so far, the results look really good.

[1657] Because PI3 kinase inhibitors by themselves have not panned out.

[1658] Even though theoretically they should, they should be amazing for cancer.

[1659] they haven't been great and it's been speculated that that's because of that escape valve which is it pops off to a higher insulin level so when you layer on top of that a ketogenic diet it seems to work really well and anecdotally one of my good friends from med school his wife has metastatic breast cancer she was diagnosed god probably seven or eight years ago so metastatic breast cancer is a death sentence it's unsurvivable she was enrolled in a clinical trial in Boston that was using PI3K inhibitors and so she got one of these drugs she's the only woman to this day that's still alive whoa and she went on a ketogenic diet now again how many years ago seven or eight and what is the usual lifespan of someone who gets diagnosed i mean five years maybe less probably and is she deteriorating is she maintaining no she literally has this one little foci of metastatic disease in her hip still so So this one little nubbin of potential cancer inside her hip bone, but it's stayed static.

[1660] I mean, it's causing some structural issues.

[1661] She, you know, obviously her hips weaker, but it's kind of amazing.

[1662] And her story is actually kind of one of the things that's got some of the people who develop these drugs thinking about this idea of combining ketogenic diets with PI3K inhibitors to try to squash the insulin level and minimize.

[1663] minimize that, basically that escape route for cancer.

[1664] Wow.

[1665] And there's other ways to do this pharmacologically, right?

[1666] Like you could argue combining it with metformin or something else that's going to lower insulin would also potentially work.

[1667] And metformin is that anti -aging drug that's fairly controversial as well, too, right?

[1668] Yeah, I don't know that's that controversial.

[1669] I mean, it's...

[1670] It is in terms of human performance.

[1671] Well, yeah.

[1672] So the reason I stopped taking it three years ago, I took it for probably eight years.

[1673] But three years ago I stopped because it does impair mitochondrial function, at least at the level that I can measure it.

[1674] So I measure my lactate levels when I'm exercising in a certain type of exercise every day.

[1675] And I'm basically trying to generate the highest amount of power I can generate on a bike while keeping lactate below 2 milamol.

[1676] And that's like the limit of my mitochondrial throughput as my kind of my maximum aerobic efficiency.

[1677] And when I was on metformin, I just noticed, like, I was hitting that lactate level higher than I believed I should hit it, just based on my fitness.

[1678] Is lactate, is that lactic acid?

[1679] Is it the same thing?

[1680] Synonymous, yeah.

[1681] So you would develop more with metformin, so it would make your performance less effective.

[1682] But what if you took the metformin after exercise?

[1683] It stuck around too long, so I had tried all that stuff.

[1684] I would take the metformin immediately, exactly you said.

[1685] I'd take it immediately after exercise, but it would still be in my system.

[1686] 24 hours later.

[1687] So I then said, well, what if I stopped metformin altogether?

[1688] What if you intermittently took metformin and intermittently exercised?

[1689] All great questions.

[1690] Is there a half -life in terms of?

[1691] Yeah.

[1692] Eventually it'll wash out, but I think exercise is the single most important longevity drug we have, bar none.

[1693] Like if you said, like, I want to go deep down the rabbit hole of living, longer, what do I need to do?

[1694] It's like a super well -crafted exercise program that is geared towards strength, muscle mass, and cardiorespiratory fitness.

[1695] So it's all the above.

[1696] It's not just one.

[1697] Right.

[1698] I mean, the hazard ratios for each of these are pretty interesting.

[1699] This has become like each year I try to bring one new focus into our practice.

[1700] And the past 12 months, the focus has been entirely around taking exercise to a new level in terms of our understanding of how to fine -tune it.

[1701] And the data are unbelievable, right?

[1702] So if you, everybody knows that if you smoke or have diabetes, your risk of death goes up a lot.

[1703] But your risk of death from having high cardiorespiratory fitness goes down by much more than your risk of death goes up from smoking your diabetes.

[1704] So smoking and diabetes will double or triple your risk of death, depending on the time frame you're looking at.

[1705] Having very high cardiorespiratory fitness, so having a VO2 max that is elite, we would define that as the top 2 .5 % of the population compared to below average is a five -fold reduction in all -cause mortality.

[1706] Death from any kind.

[1707] Whoa.

[1708] I mean, we don't have drugs that have a 5x reduction in mortality.

[1709] That's incredible.

[1710] And that's just elite cardiovascular health.

[1711] Right.

[1712] And then when you layer in strength and muscle mass, we actually now have pretty good data as to the fact that strength is more important than muscle mass. We just use muscle mass is a good proxy for strength, but if you just focus on strength, that's the metric that matters.

[1713] It's about a three -fold reduction in all -cause mortality when you compare high strength to low strength.

[1714] And the tests are, you know, we're talking, it's not like how much you can squat and deadlift.

[1715] It's like grip strength, dead hang, how long can you do like an air squat?

[1716] You know, like what's your quad strength?

[1717] How quickly can you do five reps up and down from a chair?

[1718] I mean, it's relatively simple stuff.

[1719] But when you stratify people by those metrics and you compare the highest to the lowest performers, there's just no comparison.

[1720] Is there a point of diminishing returns, though, where you just get really, really strong, but it's not helping you anymore than being fairly strong?

[1721] On the strength data, we don't see it because the data have only been parsed out as high to low.

[1722] on the cardio respiratory, there is a point of diminishing return.

[1723] So remember I said, Elite is the top 2 .5%.

[1724] And then you, so it's, it's, it's, it's, um, we break them into five categories, but they're not equal in bucket size.

[1725] You get most of the benefit, honestly, by going from not fit at all to average fit.

[1726] That gives you three of the five X. Now that said, you know, I hold myself and my patients to a way higher standard, which is we have a chart that shows all the data by age, by gen. and by V -O -2 Max.

[1727] And I would say, if you're a 52 -year -old male, I'm asking you to have the V -O -2 max of an elite 42 -year -old male.

[1728] So I want you to be a decade younger elite.

[1729] And then we do the same thing with strength metrics.

[1730] And when you prescribe that, like say if you take a 52 -year -old male that doesn't have a history of cardiovascular activity, you know, maybe they lightly work out at the gym or something like that, What particular exercises do you think are the best to achieve that result?

[1731] So we start with a base of zone two.

[1732] So this zone two is that lactate thing I was talking about.

[1733] So your zone two is defined as the highest level of aerobic output that you can generate while keeping lactate below two milamol.

[1734] So I think a bike is the easiest way to do this because the...

[1735] Stationary or...

[1736] Stationary just because you can keep it steady state.

[1737] You know, when you're on the road, you're all over the place.

[1738] but so if you're on like a you know a stationary bike and so you and also wattage is such an easy metric for people to understand so how many watts are you putting out right so um the first thing we would do is say you probably need to be doing at least three hours a week of that zone two which is building an aerobic base so four 45 minute sessions at zone two constantly driving it up and honestly one session of VO2 max training per week and the best protocol for that is the the four by four protocol.

[1739] So that's four minutes at the highest output you can sustain.

[1740] So here you could do it on an air bike or something, right?

[1741] So you could do what's the highest wattage you can hold for four minutes and then four minute recovery and do five of those sets once a week.

[1742] So when you're doing that, do you think that the best is like an airdine that works the arms and the legs?

[1743] Or do you think just a regular bike that just works the legs?

[1744] Like what is?

[1745] For zone to, I mean, it really just matters that you're.

[1746] consistent, but I think most people find you can do a higher output when you're on an air bike in terms of absolute wattage because you are leveraging upper and lower body.

[1747] It really doesn't matter that much.

[1748] I mean, you can do this on a treadmill, you can do this on a stair climber, you can do this on any kind of cardiovascular activity, but you need 45 minutes four times a week.

[1749] That would, that seems to be the minimum effective dose on zone two.

[1750] Now, if someone's super deconditioned, it can probably be three 30 minute sessions to start and they'll see benefit.

[1751] Interesting.

[1752] And then as far as a strength program, like, do you recommend specific exercises?

[1753] Is it like squat, deadlift?

[1754] Well, it depends on, this is where it gets very dependent on the person.

[1755] So we have a test that we put our patients through that's 10 exercises.

[1756] And they're all basically normalized to your body weight and gender.

[1757] So like a dead hang.

[1758] So how long can you hang from a bar dead?

[1759] How long should you be able to hold?

[1760] Well, we hold males to the standard of two minutes.

[1761] And females to a minute and a half at the age of 40.

[1762] So then it gets discounted by decade.

[1763] You know, it's interesting when we were hosting Fear Factor, Dead Hang was one of the stunts.

[1764] These people hung from a chin -up bar that was over a bridge into a river.

[1765] Do you remember how long people could go?

[1766] No, but the women won.

[1767] Interesting.

[1768] Yeah, the men.

[1769] We had a big Jack guy.

[1770] He was fucking pretty stout.

[1771] And he fell into the water quicker.

[1772] I think it's weight, body weight, you know, the difference.

[1773] Oh, it's harder the more we weigh, of course, but the idea is in theory you should be stronger if you're a man as well.

[1774] Yeah, but if you're a 250 -pound man and you're carrying all that extra weight because you've been doing bodybuilding type exercises.

[1775] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[1776] And especially if you use straps.

[1777] Yep.

[1778] And you don't have that grip.

[1779] Yeah.

[1780] Two minutes is a long fucking time, though.

[1781] The very first time I did it, I did it after deadlifting.

[1782] So my grip was a little taxed, and I only got to 126.

[1783] And then about a week later, I tried again, and I got to two minutes.

[1784] My longest is a little over three minutes now.

[1785] I do it twice a week.

[1786] How much do you weigh?

[1787] Like 171.

[1788] And as you get heavier, your hand strength must really need to be a giant factor.

[1789] If you're dealing with a guy who should be 171, like if you decided to body build and you went to 250, that would probably radically decrease your amount of time.

[1790] Yeah, although to your point, like, I would hope that I was using my grip strength to make that happen.

[1791] I mean, grip strength is probably one of the most correlated indices with longevity.

[1792] Yeah, I've heard that, but I don't know why.

[1793] Why is that?

[1794] There's probably two reasons.

[1795] One is, I used to think it was the obvious reason, which is look at the causes of mortality.

[1796] We have this thing in our practice called the death bars.

[1797] So one of my analysts, Bob Kaplan, about a year ago, I said, Bob, I want you to make these five graphs for me. And they're basically everything about the causes of death.

[1798] So one of them is just show me all cause mortality by decade, now break it down into the subsets.

[1799] And one of the most common things is accidental deaths.

[1800] And this is the most interesting trend is accidental deaths change so much by age.

[1801] So in our age group, so by the way, accidental deaths are uniform across the population.

[1802] But they become a much bigger source of death on a per capita basis as you get older because there are fewer older people.

[1803] In our demographic, most accidental deaths are overdoses.

[1804] When you're older, they become virtually all falls.

[1805] 90 % of accidental deaths are false.

[1806] So a fall is a very lethal thing by the time you're 75.

[1807] Like you and I don't think about it.

[1808] By the time you're 75, falling is a devastating consequence.

[1809] Isn't that wild?

[1810] So think about how strong grip versus weak.

[1811] grip would impact your ability to tolerate a fall.

[1812] It's can you get your hand down?

[1813] Can you grab something when you're falling?

[1814] All of those things matter a lot.

[1815] The second reason I think grip strength matters a lot is it is such a good proxy for strength because one of the things I've learned in the past year becoming so obsessive with grip strength is how as my hands have gotten stronger, it's alleviated all the shoulder.

[1816] Like I have a torn labrum here from my swimming days that is so painful, I thought I would never be able to do a dead hang pull -up again.

[1817] Because whenever I was in this full position, I'm putting so much stress on the labrum.

[1818] So I was doing pull -ups to here, right?

[1819] Like I would, you know, I'd go from here to here.

[1820] And then Beth Lewis, this person in our practice who is kind of like our strength guru, she was convinced that if I could just get my grip stronger, I would fix this.

[1821] And I was like, Beth, that doesn't even make freaking sense.

[1822] Like, why does having more grip fix my shoulder?

[1823] but I just started doing everything she said like all of these dead hang finger exercises and all this other stuff and now when I do a pull -up I can dead hang with zero pain and I'm just putting all this extra pressure in my finger and I think the reason is it is allowing us to potentiate force more stably from our scapula all the way through and so much of the instability we have in shoulders and all these injuries is just because we don't transmit force correctly So I think something about having really strong grip just basically fixes so much of the upper body strength, you know, weakness, you know, strength imbalances that we have.

[1824] And again, it's a proxy for people who don't fall.

[1825] It's a proxy for other things.

[1826] It is a proxy for muscle mass. The more muscle mass you have, the more glucose you dispose of, the more metabolically healthy you are.

[1827] So that's my best guess for it.

[1828] And what exercises do you do besides dead hang and what?

[1829] So the other things we have people do is, so another important principle of aging.

[1830] So think about hunting, right?

[1831] So where are you more likely to hurt yourself, walking down a steep hill or walking up a steep hill?

[1832] Down.

[1833] Breaks is everything in life.

[1834] Ecentric strength matters more than concentric strength.

[1835] Concentric strength is important, but we overemphasize it.

[1836] All right.

[1837] We don't train eccentric strength enough.

[1838] So a big part of this program is how do you train eccentric strength?

[1839] So one of our metrics is you have to be able to step down from a 16 foot block and take more than three seconds.

[1840] So you're 16 inches, sorry, I don't know if I said 16 feet.

[1841] You're 16 inches on a block and you're going to put one step down, but you have to do it in more than three seconds.

[1842] So think about how much control you need in the supporting quad to put yourself down that slowly.

[1843] That's how you walk downstairs and don't hurt yourself.

[1844] That's how you have the ability to stop yourself if you lose balance.

[1845] We have eccentric modes as well.

[1846] So you have to be able to hold 50 % of your body weight and do a certain number of box step -ups.

[1847] You have to be able to farmers carry with 75 % of your body weight.

[1848] So we have a whole bunch of other things that have to do with ankle mobility.

[1849] It's a lot of non -sexy stuff that is our top 10.

[1850] And, of course, deadlifting and things like that are super important because that's a big part of how you train those things.

[1851] But we also don't fixate on it.

[1852] Like, my wife has scoliosis.

[1853] And if she deadlifts, like, it just puts a little too much stress on her back.

[1854] So she does hip thrusters instead.

[1855] And you can get most of the hip hinge benefit using a hip thruster without having to deadlift.

[1856] So you shouldn't be...

[1857] What about kettlebell swings?

[1858] Amazing exercise, right?

[1859] Is that good enough as a hip swing, a hip hinge?

[1860] Yeah, I mean, I think if you're good.

[1861] I mean, the problem with a kettlebell swing is it requires a ton of...

[1862] technique and coordination.

[1863] And I think most people don't do it incorrectly.

[1864] Most people do it incorrectly.

[1865] But if you're doing it right, it's an amazing exercise.

[1866] Yeah.

[1867] So what is your routine?

[1868] Like what are the things that you concentrate on?

[1869] I know I watch your Instagram.

[1870] You've been doing deadlifting and a few.

[1871] I love deadlifting.

[1872] I think it's, but I don't deadlift heavy these days.

[1873] Like I, I've been deadlifting relatively light, but I do it with like a, I do a very heavy focus on eccentrics.

[1874] I do a no -touch deadlift where I'm taking only, I'm only letting 50 % of the weight down in between reps. So kind of more staying under constant tension as I lift.

[1875] A ton of single -leg stuff.

[1876] You can use a fraction of the weight.

[1877] And I do, I started about six months ago doing a lot of blood flow restriction stuff as well.

[1878] So you're really going light.

[1879] The blood flow restriction stuff is very interesting.

[1880] Have you done it?

[1881] No, I haven't, but I've heard great things about it.

[1882] But I wanted to ask you this before.

[1883] I forget the, you had written something once about, I'm meant to talk to you about this, about deadlifts actually decompressing the spine, which I found so counterintuitive.

[1884] So how does that work?

[1885] Like, how are you getting deadlifts to decompress you?

[1886] So, and this is easiest than a hex bar deadlift.

[1887] It's much easier with the hex bar deadlift than a sumo deadlift or a traditional strain.

[1888] Yeah.

[1889] So, um, the reason is if you have enough intra -abdominal pressure and you're, um, you're putting your spine at just the right amount of extension, you're actually with, you're actually extending your spine when you lift because of the position of your hip.

[1890] So it's, it's hard to explain without feeling it.

[1891] And it took me a really long time to feel this.

[1892] But have you heard of dynamic neuromuscular stabilization?

[1893] No. DNS.

[1894] So it's this, it's this discipline that really taught me how to do this kind of intra -abdominal pressure where you put a huge amount of pressure in your pelvis, basically.

[1895] So you ever notice how the really good power lifters have huge abdomens?

[1896] And this is a big part of it, is they can generate so much pressure in their abdomen that they're basically stretching out their spine, pushing out everywhere.

[1897] So they have kind of a cylinder inside their body.

[1898] Right.

[1899] And if you can't do that, you almost have like a triangle in your body with the diaphragm being the top and the pelvis being the bottom.

[1900] So the force is not going out in all directions in the same way.

[1901] So what you want is this force to be going out equally.

[1902] And when I do that with a hexbar deadlift, I can hear my spine like actually like going like an adjustment.

[1903] Just the same as when I'm dead hanging.

[1904] You can sort of hear a crack.

[1905] Yeah.

[1906] So what is the steps?

[1907] Like how do you just start it?

[1908] You start on the ground.

[1909] It's the easiest to do when you're on your back, and you have somebody who knows how to cue it initially, but you're, so you know that two hip bones here?

[1910] Yes.

[1911] This is called your anterior superior iliac crest.

[1912] So I go about two finger breaths in, two finger breaths down.

[1913] And as I'm laying on my back, I'm trying to put as much air into there as possible.

[1914] And you want to imagine that your shorts, which have, you know, the ring that you're, the waistband of your shorts make, you want to make it as big as possible in all directions.

[1915] So you're, you're trying to get air out into your back, you're trying to get air into your pelvis.

[1916] So the first step is just being able to do that.

[1917] And then eventually you want to be able to do that while breathing, meaning you want to be able to get that pressure out and then take a breath.

[1918] Because at first, you won't be able to do that.

[1919] At first, you'll just blow out.

[1920] Right.

[1921] And you'll be holding your breath.

[1922] So the next thing you want to be able to be able to hold that well you breathe.

[1923] And then we do some other exercises before we would go to deadlifting.

[1924] So now you want to be able to get into certain positions where you're on your front and you're in opposite support.

[1925] So the obvious one is like a bare position where you're on all fours, but then ultimately we get into these really complicated positions where you're on one elbow and the side of one knee, but you're keeping your pelvis totally level.

[1926] Yes, exactly.

[1927] So for example, the whole chart.

[1928] Yeah, basically what DNS comes down to is modeling the neurodevelopment of an infant.

[1929] So basically, if, we're left, if we're not messed around with when we're kids, we will develop perfectly normally for the first two years of our life.

[1930] These are the exercises I used to fix my back, Joe.

[1931] Really?

[1932] Without even knowing, that's what it was called, yeah.

[1933] The doctor, it took her a couple weeks to figure it out, but that first thing with, like, getting, trying to find, like, this position here where her back is up and her legs are like that, that's basically what fixed it.

[1934] And just trying to get that breathing in after a couple weeks, all the pain kind of just kind of went away.

[1935] So you see the one that's four to five months there, where she's in an eight, so where her left leg is out.

[1936] Yes.

[1937] So that's, to me, that is the gangster position that gets you ready to deadlift.

[1938] When you can do what she's doing and now pick your hips up off the floor and stay perfectly level with only your left leg down and your right elbow down, and you'll feel your spine will just go, you feel this total expansion.

[1939] That tells you you have the intra -abdominal control to deadlift.

[1940] So left leg down, right elbow.

[1941] Yep, right elbow down.

[1942] Yep.

[1943] Opposite, opposite, yep.

[1944] She's not doing it fully right now, but that's the precursor.

[1945] Yeah, that's the precursor to that position.

[1946] And so that's how you start to learn how.

[1947] So then there's expanding in those images right there.

[1948] You see how they're using, is that the diaphragm that they're using?

[1949] Yep, yep, to push out.

[1950] Yep.

[1951] And so that is what expands your back.

[1952] Yep.

[1953] Do you do any decompression in terms of like you ever use one of those teeter decks tables?

[1954] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[1955] Yeah, I do.

[1956] Not the ones that hang by your ankles, but the one where you hinge from the waist.

[1957] No, the only thing that I do decompression for is my neck.

[1958] So I have a device at home every day.

[1959] I do 10 minutes of neck traction.

[1960] Oh, you do one of those?

[1961] Do you do one with the inflated one that you pump up, or do you do the hang one?

[1962] Neither.

[1963] So it's called a Sanders machine.

[1964] You lay in it and it grabs your mandible and your occipate, and it pulls you up and you adjust the poundage.

[1965] So I do 25 pounds for 10 minutes.

[1966] Oh, what do you, what's the machine that you use?

[1967] What's it called?

[1968] It's called a Sanders if you, I bought it on.

[1969] There it is, yeah.

[1970] Oh, interesting, because I have one where I hang.

[1971] That looks safer.

[1972] This is much safer.

[1973] Because you would start somebody out like at a much lower pounded.

[1974] Jamie, we send me this link.

[1975] Thanks.

[1976] But you don't have any cervical disc issues, do you?

[1977] I have.

[1978] I've had them.

[1979] Yeah, I had, um, I would do this under the guidance of a physical therapist.

[1980] just to make sure that they tell you how I mean are you literally hanging by your neck right now no not fully but like do you know how much weight how much weight are you I just have one of these things that it hooks onto a door yeah yeah the top of the door and I pulled the thing like this click click click click click click click click oh okay okay and then I can choose to like lean into it and put more weight like let it let it make my my neck decompress more and then I can pull it up more and so it gets to like this I got it I'm hanging there but it feels good where is the Pressure being applied more in the front or more in the back?

[1981] Kind of like a bolt.

[1982] Okay.

[1983] It's a strap and you tighten it down with Velcro and it's like, ah.

[1984] So the other thing that DNS that I do every day for DNS is, so there are muscles that run on the front of your vertebral bodies and your cervical spine.

[1985] And they're called deep neck stabilizing muscles.

[1986] And one of the challenges that most of us have, who all have, you know, sort of cervical neck issues is those.

[1987] muscles aren't strong enough they're not fully engaged enough so another exercise I do went on my back in that position with the intra -abdominal pressure is kind of look down at my chest and without lifting my head up go through the initiation of a lift up and to do that you basically will end up using these deep neck stabilizers as opposed to the scalenes right you don't want to be moving your neck or stabilizing your neck with these muscles that are outside you want to be doing it with the muscles inside.

[1988] And that's what's extending the spine.

[1989] You can't feel these muscles.

[1990] Everything you're feeling right now is sort of superficial.

[1991] Do you use anything to strengthen your neck, like an iron neck or anything like that?

[1992] Have you ever?

[1993] I do the, I do, I do when I was boxing, of course.

[1994] You ever use an iron neck?

[1995] I don't know.

[1996] I would do like the, you know, I used to do the thing that you wrap around your head and wrap a plate to it.

[1997] But the issue with that is it puts an unnatural amount of leverage on the disc itself.

[1998] The iron neck is a halo.

[1999] Do you know what it is?

[2000] No. I'll give you one.

[2001] We have a stack of them.

[2002] They sent me a bunch to give away.

[2003] But it is, uh, you have a halo and you pump it up and like a, like a Reebok pump, like it fits tight to your head.

[2004] And then there's a 50 pound bungee cord.

[2005] And so you pull back so that you're under tension.

[2006] And then you can adjust the amount of tension.

[2007] See that guy's using it there.

[2008] There's a video of the there.

[2009] There's a video of me with a, there's a video of me doing it too.

[2010] Because the guy who.

[2011] Yeah, this would be kind of cool for driving.

[2012] Um, because that's a thing in a race car, right?

[2013] Your, your neck is a, under a lot of g force well the idea behind it is there's the guy who invented it um is it mike jolly's that's name um he's uh who's a former NFL player big fucking stout fellow and uh he developed this to to aid in people there's tom papa too to keep people from there's a lot of folks that get head injuries um and a lot of it is from the weak weakness of the neck and that, you know, makes your head snap.

[2014] Yeah, I'd love to try it.

[2015] But with Jiu -Jitsu, it's gigantic because there's no real safe way to train your neck.

[2016] But with that, my mind...

[2017] We used to do neck bridges rolling.

[2018] Yeah, not idiotic stuff.

[2019] Yeah, we used to do that too.

[2020] But this iron neck thing is way better because you don't really do that, but you do do this.

[2021] So the halo's on, the bungee cords on, and I go like this, twist here, twist here, twist here, twist here.

[2022] And then I turn around, I do it backwards, and then I do it sideways, so I have it going to my right side, I have it going on my left side, and then I do what they call the Stevie Wonder.

[2023] So I do this thing like this.

[2024] And the whole idea is that you're not putting that unnatural hinge on your discs, and all of this muscle tissue has gotten so much stronger because of it.

[2025] My neck is bigger.

[2026] I mean, I haven't measured it, but I mean, shirts that I used to wear, I can't fit anymore but it's just it's stronger it's more stable yeah I'd love to try it you can have it I have one for you there you go yeah JRE swag um so I'm gonna have to try that with the hex bar I mean it seems like I mean start with the the positions on the ground like it's easier to show you if I was actually putting you on a mat and having you do it well we'll do that something yeah yeah and so you do that you do those so I do so I do my four days a week I do four sessions a week of the 45 -minute zone 2.

[2027] So that's the, I'm titrating my wattage to keep lactate at 2 milamol.

[2028] I do one session a week of a higher -end anaerobic exercise.

[2029] I typically do it on a stair machine, you know, those rotating stair machines where I just do like, I'll do a one -minute sprint, two -minute easy climb, one -minute sprint, two -minute easy climb, or four on four -off on a bike, and then four sessions of strength a week, four strength sessions a week.

[2030] And that's Like, I mean, this is the least I've ever exercised in my life.

[2031] I exercise a total of 10 or 11 hours a week, which is still, you know, a lot by most people's standards.

[2032] By most people standard, it is a lot.

[2033] But by my standards, that's like nothing.

[2034] Well, people need to understand that you're a fucking maniac and you, uh, you swam all the different, you swam in between all the islands of Hawaii.

[2035] No, no, no, no, just, just Maui and Lanai.

[2036] But you were trying to do, what was there was something going on where they wouldn't let you do it at night, right?

[2037] Yes, that was that swim.

[2038] Because of the tiger sharks Because at night it's so dark You have to pin a glow stick to your bathing suit And they were like the boat captain Like I'm gonna start at midnight to avoid the wind And he's like dude You'll be like chum out there With little glow stick on your butt Really?

[2039] They would come for you?

[2040] Yeah yeah they would love that Tiger sharks are dangerous huh So for you 11 hours a week is not a lot For most people that's a big commitment Because it's more than an hour Yeah And we'll say to our patience Like look what can you What can you do?

[2041] Can you do six hours a week?

[2042] But at some point you've got to do it.

[2043] Like you just, if you, you can't say I want to live long.

[2044] I want to, I want to be a kick -ass 85 -year -old and not train for it.

[2045] It's just, it's so logically inconsistent.

[2046] Right.

[2047] And I want to be able to hunt when I'm 80.

[2048] And I want to drive a race car when I'm 80.

[2049] Yeah.

[2050] Like, and if I want to do that, I have to put in a lot of time right now to make sure I'm strong enough to do those things.

[2051] Yeah, there's no other options.

[2052] you know, especially for bone density and maintaining muscle mass. There's no other way to do it.

[2053] Yeah, the data is overwhelming, right?

[2054] So there's a study that was done that looked at 60, I want to say 65 -ish -year -old folks, and it put them on a super high strength training program.

[2055] And in six months, they added one, I want to say 1 .7 kilos of muscle mass. It's pretty good.

[2056] That's like three and a half pounds of muscle.

[2057] An old person, that's very good.

[2058] Six months of super dedicated training and I forget exactly how much more protein they were feeding them.

[2059] So high protein diet, high training.

[2060] A separate study took people of basically the same age and put them on 10 days of bed rest.

[2061] They lost 1 .5 kilograms of muscle.

[2062] Wow.

[2063] So 1 .5 kilograms of muscle and 10 days of bed rest and did it made, did they get it back quickly?

[2064] No. That was it.

[2065] No. That was it.

[2066] It takes a very long time to get it back.

[2067] And you could lose it all in 10 days of bed rest.

[2068] You could lose in 10 days what you got in six months.

[2069] God damn it.

[2070] So, I mean, it's like, you know, it's this sexy, it's this non -sexy, like, don't stop exercising.

[2071] Don't ever get out of shape.

[2072] Right.

[2073] And avoid injury like the plague.

[2074] And as you get older, this loss of muscle mass, what we call sarcopenia, is an enormous killer.

[2075] Mm. So sarcopenia.

[2076] as like one of the primary indicators that someone's unhealthy.

[2077] Yes, sarco obesity, which is a term that, I don't know who coined it, is like the worst of all, right?

[2078] So that's high amounts of fat, low amounts of muscle.

[2079] And that's, I mean, that's going to happen to a person naturally, right?

[2080] You're going to lose about, you're going to lose about a pound of muscle a decade, a little bit more than that, probably two pounds of muscle.

[2081] No, no, I'm sorry, you're going to lose about, I want to say lose a pound of muscle, gain two pounds of fat every couple of years by the time you're 40 if you don't make it.

[2082] If you're not super diligent about avoiding it.

[2083] And do you have a body fat percentage that you like to maintain?

[2084] For me or just for our patients?

[2085] I mean, of the, of the, no. So I think it's, I think superficial or subcutaneous body fat is so highly genetic that we don't really tend to fixate on it that much.

[2086] so in other words for an individual we care about what their trend is but like you know I'm not that lean anymore I'm 14 13 % body fat you know for me to be below 10 % body fat I have to really you know change what I'm eating and you were at your leanest when you were keto so yeah well as an adult I was probably leaner when I was boxing but when I was like as a as an adult my leanest was 7 % when I was keto by dexa and that was actually not that because, but I was exercising, you know, I was like exercising like a fiend and, you know, eating a stupidly strict ketogenic diet.

[2087] But what I care much more about is visceral fat and what's called ALMI, appendicular lean mass index.

[2088] So you can, and you can get both of these numbers off at DEXA.

[2089] So visceral fat is how much, how many pounds of fat do you have around your organs?

[2090] And that's a far more important predictor of your lifespan.

[2091] And what causes fat to accumulate around the organs versus subcutaneous?

[2092] Well, the subcutaneous fat is sort of just a, it's your excess depot.

[2093] I mean, you can store an infinite amount of weight there.

[2094] The visceral fat probably has to do with hepatic fat.

[2095] You know, our liver produces a lot of fat.

[2096] And, I mean, if we're unhealthy, right?

[2097] So the liver will start to store fat.

[2098] So, you know, drugs.

[2099] I mean.

[2100] People drink a lot.

[2101] Yeah, alcohol is a huge contributor to it.

[2102] but of course now there's something called non -alcoholic fatty liver disease, Nafaldi, which is probably the leading indicator for liver transplant in the United States now.

[2103] Whoa.

[2104] And that seems to be mostly driven by fructose.

[2105] Fructose.

[2106] Yeah.

[2107] God damn corn syrup.

[2108] Yeah.

[2109] People want to pretend that all fucking sugars are created equal.

[2110] They're not, are they?

[2111] No, God, no. Isn't that a weird thing, though?

[2112] Why do people want to say that?

[2113] It seems like whether they're contrarian or they want to have knowledge that, you know, counteracts the narrative that people keep hearing.

[2114] The narrative that we keep hearing from people like yourself or from a lot of experts is that particular, particularly high fructose corn syrup is just really bad for you.

[2115] I mean, I think Rick Johnson's data shows, Rick Johnson is, I think, the world's expert on fructose.

[2116] What his data show is that there's nothing worse than drinking fructose.

[2117] Like if you really...

[2118] Orange juice.

[2119] Yeah.

[2120] Yeah, any, yeah, I mean, if you want to drink your sugar, you're just, you're putting it on the fast track to the liver.

[2121] Because your body does not normally encounter that.

[2122] Yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, is, is, is, is, is too high.

[2123] For the liver to process it correctly?

[2124] Yeah, and also, it gets into other parts of the intestine that it wouldn't get to with just, if you were eating it, right?

[2125] So if you, if you took 100 grams of sugar and you ate it in a solid food.

[2126] versus if you drank it, there's actually pretty interesting animal data that the fructose that you drink is making it all the way into the colon, and it's actually increasing the risk of colon cancer in a way that you wouldn't get it through solid consumption.

[2127] So what about fructose from fruit?

[2128] Is there any danger in that, or is it just?

[2129] On a per molecule basis, it is the same fructose, but the dose, I mean, it's like, you know, one of my favorite drinks is a paloma, like in far as like a summer cocktail, right?

[2130] So I noticed this summer when I started making them, like how many grapefruits do I need to squeeze to get a 500 ML thing of grapefruit juice?

[2131] And it's about 10 grapefruits this big.

[2132] It kind of occurred to me. I was like, it is so easy for me to drink this thing.

[2133] Like I can drink 500 ml of grapefruit juice.

[2134] So assume it's orange juice.

[2135] It could drink 500 ml of orange juice in one chug.

[2136] I don't have to think about it.

[2137] Right.

[2138] Could you eat that many orange juice?

[2139] You can be hard you would really have to be motivated yeah so so it yeah that's why it's just better to eat fruit than drink fruit just because of basically the the lower dose the dose and the velocity um you know I noticed when I was on the carnivore diet for a while how long were you on it by the way just a month I did it one month no I did it twice this was like three years ago two years ago yeah about three years ago and then I did it again a year later for again again a month um it does one thing it does do is you lose weight because you just don't eat anything else other than meat and your satiety levels are reached far quicker yeah like you you don't feel you feel satiated in terms of like you don't want to eat any more steak but if somebody pushed a bowl of pasta in front of me and said you could eat that too but like oh i'll fucking eat that whole thing it's weird and you did it is super strict you didn't have a single vegetable no vegetables I just ate steaks.

[2140] I ate mostly rib -eye steaks for a month, and I lost 12 pounds.

[2141] I got ripped.

[2142] How did you feel?

[2143] I felt good.

[2144] I felt a little aggressive.

[2145] That was what was odd.

[2146] It was like I was a little extra agro.

[2147] Not agro in a negative way.

[2148] Like I was more like, ah, like I had more...

[2149] How were your workouts?

[2150] Not that good.

[2151] The workouts are not that good.

[2152] Even the pure strength workouts.

[2153] They were okay.

[2154] Like grappling would be horrible.

[2155] Right.

[2156] Right, that's what I'm saying.

[2157] They were okay, but my ability to maintain for long periods of time was not so hot.

[2158] Whereas I could do like a Pavel Tatsaline type workout where I'm doing low reps, large rest in between the reps. But like rounds in the bag were horrific.

[2159] It was not good.

[2160] It was like I had drunk I got drunk the night before or something like it was hung over I go like oh fucking push I was trying to push but mental clarity was very high mental clarity was not bad sleep is good different okay no no different sleep was high or the sleep is fine rather mental clarity was high I had but I do feel like I had like a little bit more gur like I'm a little bit more like go out and fucking get shit done Like I had good energy, which is odd that it didn't translate into the workouts because it really didn't.

[2161] Well, you were your glycogen depleted.

[2162] Like you were down to 40 % glycogen in your muscles.

[2163] So, but why did I have mental clarity?

[2164] You probably had ketones floating around and you had no glucose fluctuation.

[2165] No glucose fluctuation, I think, is it.

[2166] Is that a negative way to eat?

[2167] A carnivore?

[2168] Yeah.

[2169] I mean, look, I haven't done it.

[2170] It's just, it just strikes me as like unnatural, but I'm sure there are some people for whom it's a reasonable way to go about it.

[2171] I just, it's hard for me to understand, though.

[2172] Is it unnatural?

[2173] I mean, there's some, look, the messiah are largely carnivores, right?

[2174] So there are clearly some civilizations who have done it.

[2175] But we have to distinguish between it can be done from it is optimal.

[2176] Those are not the same thing.

[2177] And we're clearly omnivores in your eyes.

[2178] And so if one was going to do just like a vegan diet at the other end of the spectrum, can it be done?

[2179] Sure.

[2180] Is it better than the standard American diet?

[2181] Sure.

[2182] Is it necessarily the optimal diet?

[2183] No. Why is it necessarily the optimal diet?

[2184] You know, just because some guy's telling us it is.

[2185] Well, the idea is that I think the vegan diet is the only diet that comes with sort of a moral imperative.

[2186] That's right.

[2187] And I think these folks that do it, they're saying, listen, I care about a climate change, be the animals, all the above, whatever.

[2188] whatever it is.

[2189] So that's a different, like, can you do it and survive and thrive?

[2190] Yes, you can.

[2191] When you're doing the carnivore diet, I think their idea is that they're trying to avoid plant chemicals that plants release when they're being consumed by predators, which does happen, right?

[2192] Yeah, I guess I just, I have to feel like we have evolved enough tools to thrive despite plants.

[2193] Like, I just...

[2194] Well, isn't it also true that there's an effect.

[2195] that when you're taking in these plant compounds that are designed to ward off predation, that your body has a sort of hermetic effect and it's actually somewhat beneficial to have those.

[2196] That's Rhonda Patrick's take on things like broccoli sprouts and things along those lines, right?

[2197] I don't have a point of view on it.

[2198] I mean, clearly Hormesis is an important part of our existence, but I don't know.

[2199] My null hypothesis would be we evolved to eat plants.

[2200] Right.

[2201] I just, I. And vegetables, well, vegetables, fruits, and meat as well.

[2202] Yeah.

[2203] The, the.

[2204] But we're also super versatile.

[2205] Yeah.

[2206] Like, we can do what we can do a lot.

[2207] I don't know any elite athletes that do just straight carnivore, but I do know a lot that do carnivore -ish.

[2208] So they do mostly meat and then they supplement it with fruits.

[2209] And so they'll eat.

[2210] like apples and pineapples and things along those lines and they get their glucose essentially from fruit and they basically avoid all plant matter which I also take athletic greens I take that supplement I'm pretty obsessed with it it's great stuff right I feel good when I take it I go off of that you know it's like oh so yeah that's interesting could you do carnivore with AG mm -hmm yeah I'd feel a lot better if I did that psychologically I'd feel, because I don't know, I just, I don't think I'd feel right if I was not eating any vegetables.

[2211] I like them.

[2212] That's the problem.

[2213] Like, if I have a nice salad with, like, tomatoes and onions and, you know, and olive oil and vinegar, I look forward to that.

[2214] I like it.

[2215] I like to start off a meal with a good salad.

[2216] It tastes good.

[2217] I like it.

[2218] You know, and so, like, it's one of those things where, like, I don't, I'm not sure that's bad for me. You know, I think when I have a bowl of pasta, I like.

[2219] that too but I'm like oh you fucking idiot after after I eat it I'm like oh dummy what have you done you know I never feel like that after I have a salad after a salad I'm like good it was good I liked it you know but that's my optimal meal my optimal meal is a good salad and a piece of meat that's what I like the most and maybe you know some sort of a starch like my favorite sweet potatoes sweet potatoes are yams those are my favorite because I feel like you know with those, I'm getting all the benefits.

[2220] And I do know that you can take potatoes and boil them and then cool them off and then whatever it is that happens to the potato, you lose a lot of the negative effects.

[2221] Yeah, there's this whole resistance starch argument.

[2222] Yeah.

[2223] Again, for me, I take a much simpler empirical approach to this, which is I have in my mind a predefined set of metrics around how high I want my glucose to be, how much I want it to vary and where I want it to average.

[2224] And I titrate my intake to that.

[2225] And you wear a constant glucose monitor, right?

[2226] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2227] And so on your arm.

[2228] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2229] So my activity and my sleep basically determine what I eat.

[2230] And is that monitor working with an app?

[2231] Yeah.

[2232] What's the app?

[2233] What's it called?

[2234] This monitor is called Dexcom.

[2235] So it just works with the Dexcom app.

[2236] And there's another one called Libre, that's the Abbott version of this.

[2237] And it's a bit more cumbersome.

[2238] How much do you find it very?

[2239] It varies throughout the day, your glucose levels.

[2240] Quite a bit, and it varies a ton with sleep and stress.

[2241] So if you have a bad night of sleep, like, I don't even wear this when I go hunting.

[2242] Because you don't want to know your data?

[2243] Well, first of all, I'm also, there's a part of me that's, like, perhaps naively worried that any sort of Bluetooth signal out there in the field is, like, being picked up by a deer.

[2244] What about your phone?

[2245] I always have it on airplane mode.

[2246] Oh, okay.

[2247] So, but also I just think.

[2248] Do you think a deer can pick up a Bluetooth signal?

[2249] I have no idea.

[2250] But it's like if I'm going to wear a stupid hex suit, I'm going to, you know what I mean?

[2251] Do you buy into that hex suit thing?

[2252] I don't think so, but it's like, it's one of those things where it's like the downside of it, you know?

[2253] It clearly works with fish.

[2254] Really?

[2255] Yeah.

[2256] It seems to really work with fish.

[2257] I've talked to people that understand.

[2258] Have you bow hunted fish yet out here?

[2259] No, I have not.

[2260] I've heard it's awesome, though.

[2261] Yeah.

[2262] I think spear fishing is the move.

[2263] I got to get I got to get that going That seems like the move Like You should You should come to Maui with us in June We're going to go out there Justin Lee and Mark Healy Do you know those guys?

[2264] Yeah I know Mark You know Mark Yeah so we're going to teach me And another buddy Some serious diving And spear fishing in June We're going to do a little Maui hunt Hunting underwater Yeah Those guys are I mean That looks incredible It looks so, and for someone who's been so comfortable in water, they keep telling me, like, they said, Justin told me that within a couple hours, he'll have me down to 75 feet.

[2265] And I'm like, that can't be possible.

[2266] There's no way I could go to 75 feet.

[2267] And he's like, of course you can.

[2268] You can swim 25 yards of a pool holding your breath, like there and back, which I can.

[2269] He was like, how could you not do it?

[2270] And I was like, well, when you put it that way, but still, it seems so hard.

[2271] How do you get down there, though?

[2272] Do you have to have a weight?

[2273] on or something?

[2274] I think they do.

[2275] Yeah, they use long fins and a slight weight.

[2276] And you titrate the weight to a certain level of buoyancy, like a slight negative buoyancy, I think.

[2277] And if you're panicking, you can release the weight?

[2278] Yes, I believe you can.

[2279] And how much weight is it?

[2280] That's funny.

[2281] I asked Justin about this.

[2282] Now, of course, it depends on how thick your wetsuit is if you're wearing a wetsuit and things like that.

[2283] But it wasn't, I want to say it was like eight pounds or something.

[2284] It wasn't like some staggering sum of weight.

[2285] It's amazing, like the, oh, you know the guy who has the world record in the static hold, he might have to quit his career because he got myocarditis from being vaccinated.

[2286] Oh, really?

[2287] Yeah, unfortunately.

[2288] It's the, he's one of the rare few that gets it, and he lost like 30 % of his ability to hold his breath.

[2289] See if you can find that guy's story.

[2290] It was, somebody just shared it with me. But some of these guys can hold their breath for seven.

[2291] What is, yeah, I was going to say, what's the static apnea record now?

[2292] I'd like to know.

[2293] Oh, no, but I think it's, if you preload with oxygen, it's different, right?

[2294] Oh, that's cheating.

[2295] That should be cheating.

[2296] I want to know, like, what can a person just go and hold their breath?

[2297] And, you know, the preloading with oxygen, I think David Blaine did something insane.

[2298] He went like 10 minutes or something crazy.

[2299] He's a fascinating guy.

[2300] He sure is.

[2301] He, have you ever met him?

[2302] No, spoken on the phone to him.

[2303] I've never met him.

[2304] My goodness, dude.

[2305] When you watch him do magic, you're just like, what the fuck did I just see?

[2306] Like, how would you do that?

[2307] Like, he did some crazy shit with us with his sleeves rolled up.

[2308] He wanted us to know that, like, his sleeves are rolled out.

[2309] He's making cards disappear.

[2310] And Jamie and I were like, what the fuck did we just see?

[2311] Like, where did that go?

[2312] It's really weird.

[2313] He is pretty amazing.

[2314] Beyond.

[2315] And that whole world of magicians.

[2316] people who you know understand like how to distract you in a way that you don't notice what they're doing while they're doing it but they have this insane hand dexterity so they're moving in a way that they a normal person can't even imagine that your hands can move and they're shuffling these cards in front of you you don't even seeing what's happening did you see that movie with with Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale the prestige what's this here buddy this is a guy post about it oh so it like that's this is I was trying to I don't go to the source.

[2317] Okay.

[2318] And so this is from his Instagram says, I want to share my annoying experience after vaccination and perhaps have some testimonials from similar stories from free divers.

[2319] Did you get better?

[2320] He said after my second dose of the vaccine, I noticed my heart rate was way higher than normal, and my breath hold capacity went down significantly during sleep.

[2321] I'm at 65 to 70 beats per minute instead of 37 to 45 beats per minute.

[2322] During the day, I'm now over, wow.

[2323] I'm now always over 100 beats per minute instead of 65, even when I sit down and relax.

[2324] Once I even reached 177 beats per minute while having dinner with friends, three exclamation, four exclamation points.

[2325] Ten days after my second jab, I went to see a cardiologist, and he told me it's a common side effect of Pfizer vaccine.

[2326] Nothing to worry about, just rest, it will pass.

[2327] 40 days after the second jab, I had no progress, so I went to see another cardiologist and got diagnosed with myocarditis and trivial mitral regurgitation, which is basically an inflammation of the heart muscle caused by the immune system and some tiny leaks of blood from the valves that no longer close properly.

[2328] I'm now struggling to reach eight minutes breath hold, which is hilarious.

[2329] That sounds amazing.

[2330] 150 meter D -Y -N, I don't know what that means, and even have, what is 150 -meter D -Y -N, do you know what that is?

[2331] I don't know if that's dying, isn't, I don't know.

[2332] And even have a strong urge to breathe doing 40 -meter dives.

[2333] 30 % decrease in my diving performance roughly.

[2334] My first thought and recommendation to free divers around the world is to choose a vaccine, which has done the old -fashioned way like Sputnik, Sinovac, Sinoffarm, etc, instead of the new MRNA vaccines.

[2335] It's weird because he spells vaccines wrong every time.

[2336] Does he have not spell check?

[2337] Is he from another country?

[2338] Yeah.

[2339] Oh, so they spell things wrong.

[2340] Like, they spell like Tyre with a Y in England.

[2341] What's that guy's name?

[2342] It's Mr. Ten Minutes is his...

[2343] Florian Doggery.

[2344] Mr. Ten Minutes is his...

[2345] I'm going to say it.

[2346] Yeah.

[2347] World record holder for apnea diagnosed myercardis 1031 was this time I think 1031 that's so long meanwhile he's complaining you can only hold his breath for eight minutes like bitch that's so long I mean you know I I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday I do a year and a half ago I remember thinking you know one silver lining of COVID is going to be that science will regain its place as, you know, an important part of our civilization, right?

[2348] Like, there was a day in the 1960s when a scientist and engineer was really respected, and the best and the brightest kids wanted to go into those professions.

[2349] And I don't think that's necessarily the case anymore, right?

[2350] I mean, if you're a super bright kid today, you're going to go want to work at Goldman Sachs or something like that.

[2351] And I remember thinking, like, God, you know, if they develop a vaccine to this and, you know, develop a vaccine in a year, which is unheard of, it's going to really impress people.

[2352] People are really going to think science is amazing.

[2353] And instead, I think the exact opposite has happened, right?

[2354] I think that there has been a fundamental confusion between science and advocacy.

[2355] And I think it has done a huge disservice to science in the short term.

[2356] And I don't know where it's going to shake out.

[2357] Like I wish I had a, I wish I had something I could go into a crystal ball and look back and say in 10 years, how will this have panned out?

[2358] Because, you know, guys like this, like I completely believe that, and I absolutely think that there are lots of side effects to vaccines.

[2359] I still think for most people, vaccines are a net positive.

[2360] But I think that there's been so much discussion of anything that talks about, anything about a vaccine that's bad, we can't talk about because we've taken this advocacy view, right?

[2361] So again, the difference is a scientific discussion is one that says, let's just talk about the facts, let's look at all of the facts, and let's speak with, let's speak with varying degrees of certainty and uncertainty.

[2362] An advocacy view says, I have a point of view about what is important for your health, what I believe is important for your health.

[2363] And if the message is get vaccinated, then we're going to talk about that at the expense of talking about anything else.

[2364] Including the negative effects of the vaccine.

[2365] Including the negative effects of the vaccine or being able to talk about it in a nuanced way.

[2366] And this is going to probably get me in a million piles of shit.

[2367] But like, I'm not excited about getting my five year, my four year old and seven year old vaccinated.

[2368] Because I don't see.

[2369] So I look at everything through a two by two lens of risk and reward.

[2370] So you're either picking up pennies or bitcoins and you're picking them up in front like tricycles or trains.

[2371] So that's your risk reward tradeoff.

[2372] So if you're an 80 year old person getting vaccinated is like picking up a Bitcoin in front of a tricycle.

[2373] It's a no -brainer.

[2374] It's a no -brainer, right?

[2375] The reward, the Bitcoin, is so worth it compared to the downside of getting hit by a tricycle, which would hurt.

[2376] If you're five years old, I mean, the risk of dying from influenza is five times higher than the risk of dying from COVID.

[2377] So if we knew the vaccine was 100 % safe and we had a million patients that had taken it and we could clearly document what the risk was, maybe it's worth it.

[2378] it.

[2379] But I don't know that today.

[2380] Right.

[2381] Now, for me, yeah, it makes sense.

[2382] Like, I'm, the, the risk of me getting myocarditis from long COVID is higher than the risk of me getting myocarditis from a vaccine.

[2383] Do you think that's true still?

[2384] Because it probably was true, was true before the advent and the, um, the use of monoclonal antibodies.

[2385] Yeah, it's a good question.

[2386] You know, I just had a patient who got COVID two weeks ago.

[2387] And so I'm one of his doctors and then he has a primary care doctor as well.

[2388] And, you know, we wanted to put him on monoclonal antibodies.

[2389] His primary care doctor didn't want to put him on monoclonal antibodies.

[2390] Why?

[2391] Felt that his risk was too low to justify it given the side effects of Mabs, but the risk of Mabs are pretty darn low.

[2392] So in the end, he gave monoclonal antibodies.

[2393] But what is the risks?

[2394] Oh, I mean, you can have a hyper sensitivity reaction to it.

[2395] Very small risk.

[2396] And also, especially if you're monitoring a person while they're getting it, it's basically a non -existent risk.

[2397] So, you know, my view was, yeah.

[2398] And by the way, you've seen the new Pfizer drug that came out, this protease inhibitor that was just approved or given a UA.

[2399] I mean, that thing is remarkable.

[2400] Yeah.

[2401] Like, stupidly remarkable.

[2402] And in the place, and again, it wasn't a huge trial.

[2403] So I want to see more data.

[2404] But in the roughly 2 ,000 people that got this that were divided into two groups.

[2405] In the placebo group, so meaning the people who weren't getting an actual drug, the risk of adverse reaction was something like 6%.

[2406] In the drug group, it was 2%.

[2407] Meaning, like, no adverse reactions.

[2408] The mortality difference was 12 people versus one people.

[2409] So it was a 91 % reduction in death and about a 63 % reduction in hospitalization.

[2410] This is a protease inhibitor.

[2411] So it's a slightly different mechanism from the Merck one that is a nucleotide inhibitor.

[2412] So yeah, I mean, today with that drug, with monoclonal antibodies, with fluvoxamine, which is fascinating, which is an antidepressant.

[2413] Yeah, it's an SSRI.

[2414] What is the mechanism?

[2415] I don't know.

[2416] And it's not to say one doesn't know, but I don't know.

[2417] Dr. Drew is explaining it to me, but I forgot.

[2418] I mean, we became interested in it based on really early reports that suggested that it was minimizing long -term neurologic fog that some people were experiencing.

[2419] And then there was a JAMA trial and then very recently a Lancet trial that was a bigger trial, a very well -done trial, and it on an intention to treat basis, so meaning for all the people who took the drug versus those who didn't, and it's 10 days, 100 milligrams twice a day, it was about a 67 % reduction in death and hospitalization, just from an off -the -shelf SSRI.

[2420] that's fascinating so a cocktail or a stack of fluvoxamine monoclonal antibodies this Pfizer drug yeah all those things um I had great results with the monoclonal antibodies all anybody focused on was ivermectin when when people were upset at me but I said that like casually with a list of all the other things I didn't even like promote it but for whatever reason there's been some sort of demonization of that particular drug, make of it what you will.

[2421] Which, by the way, you know, the safety profile of Ivermectin, right?

[2422] I mean, it's just a horribly dangerous drug.

[2423] Tell me about the safety profile, because it is kind of hilarious.

[2424] Tell everybody, I should say.

[2425] Yeah, so the WHO estimates that Ivermectin has been dosed four billion times since its inception, though not necessarily four billion people, but four billion doses of this drug have been administered.

[2426] And in that time, there are a total documented number of 20, Eight adverse neurologic responses.

[2427] This is one of the safest drugs ever.

[2428] There's no antibiotic that I'm aware of that has a better safety profile than this.

[2429] When you saw that goofy Rolling Stone article that claimed that there was a hospital in Oklahoma and that they had gunshot victims that were waiting to get into the emergency room because there were so many people who overdosed on ivermectin, what did you think of that?

[2430] I didn't see the article actually, no. It is a 100 % fake story.

[2431] But Rolling Stone printed it and Rachel Maddow tweeted it and then doubled down afterwards and was claiming that there was calls to poison control like which means jack shit if the drug isn't poison you fucking idiot like it's it's a dumb that's a dumb thing to say like poison control like it does it's not poison yeah I mean look we we had used ivermectin in some patients six months ago we don't use it today.

[2432] So we use fluboxamine today, and I'm waiting to see if more data emerge.

[2433] There are five clinical trials registered on clinical trials .gov that are looking at it.

[2434] The problem is most of the trials on ivermectin to date have been very small, and they've looked at many, many different things.

[2435] So when these people do meta -analyses to combine them, the trials are so heterogeneous.

[2436] So, you know, they have different endpoints.

[2437] They have different doses.

[2438] They have different durations.

[2439] They're combined with different drugs.

[2440] It's messy.

[2441] It's so messy that you, and then there was that one very, very fraudulent trial from Egypt.

[2442] And that really diluted things.

[2443] Wasn't there another one that was fraudulent?

[2444] Possible.

[2445] I feel like there was one that, was it Argentina?

[2446] There was one in Brazil that got a lot of talk, but I don't know if that was it, but.

[2447] So the data's messy and it's also, if you look at the Andrew Hill revised meta -analysis, and I think his is probably the best, and I think it came out in August, it looked at, if you included all those studies, including the fraudulent one, it looked really good.

[2448] Ivermectin had it with a P -value of less than 0 .01, had a 90 % reduction in hospital admission and death.

[2449] Now, the minute you stripped out that one fraudulent study, the results became way less impressive.

[2450] It went to a 38 % reduction with a P value of 0 .05, which is right on the cusp of not even being statistically relevant.

[2451] What about in use of prophylaxis?

[2452] That's the problem.

[2453] That study included both prophylactic use and treatment use.

[2454] What is more, is one or the other more promising?

[2455] That's a good question.

[2456] I don't know what's being tested in those five studies today, but I've, so I shouldn't speak because it's just not something, I don't know the data well enough.

[2457] What I was going to say is that my, the cocktail that I use, what I called the kitchen sink, was monoclonal antibodies, Ivermectin, IV drips with a high dose of vitamin C, glutathione, zinc, and then I did NAD every other day.

[2458] And you didn't do fluvoxamine?

[2459] No, I did not.

[2460] No, I didn't know about it at the time.

[2461] You should call me, dude.

[2462] I should have.

[2463] I was sick in September September no wait was this before your outcome yeah it was before the Alcon quite a bit before the Alcon we're in November now so it must have been August when I get sick yeah yeah it must have been August but I was better very quickly and I think how symptomatic were you did you I knew I knew when I was coming home something was wrong I was come I was in Florida which is the you know at the time it was hotbed and I was doing arenas so I was doing stand -up in an arena and I'm doing it in the round and so this is what it's like so I'm on stage in the in the round around me is 15 ,000 people they're screaming it's a COVID cloud and then I go through the audience to leave I go through the audience to the stage and I go through the audience to leave and as I'm walking through the audience people are screaming and they're high -fiving me and like thank you thank you I'm I'm shaking people's hands and then I go into the back room so I did that and then the second night I went to a pool hall I met my friend John showman who's like a a legendary pool cue maker and we played pool till like three o 'clock in the morning 3 .30 in the morning and I had a bunch of margaritas I was hammered and I was tired was really tired and then I started feeling like shit and I was like oh my God I feel terrible but I just thought it was hung over and then the next day I had a headache and I was like oh I feel I feel like garbage but I didn't know if I was sick or if I was just hung over I thought I was just hung over drank a lot of water ate a bunch of food had another show that night no problem killed had a great show a lot of fun flying home I started to feel shitty but again I wasn't sure because I was pretty fucking drunk on Friday night and I was like maybe that was it maybe it's just I was just I was just so I need to just go home, get in bed, and go to sleep.

[2464] But when I got home, I said to my wife, I said, I feel odd enough that I'm going to separate from everybody.

[2465] And my kids were already asleep because I got home really late at night.

[2466] My wife's already had COVID.

[2467] And so I just avoided her and went right to bed.

[2468] And then I was sweating.

[2469] I was sweating in the middle of the night.

[2470] I was like, this is not good.

[2471] So then I got tested the next day.

[2472] Are you vaccinated?

[2473] No. Positive, tested.

[2474] tested, and then right after I got tested, that day I got IV vitamin drips, and then the next day I got monoclonal antibodies.

[2475] Within a day of getting the monoclone antibodies, I felt pretty fucking good.

[2476] That would be a Tuesday.

[2477] By the end of Tuesday, I felt pretty good.

[2478] By Wednesday, I made that video that went viral.

[2479] That was Wednesday.

[2480] So that was like three days after, and I was like, I feel pretty good.

[2481] And then by Friday I was testing negative.

[2482] By Thursday, I tested negative on one of those over -the -counter tests, but not like a PCR.

[2483] Not a PCR.

[2484] Friday, I tested negative, and then Saturday I was working out.

[2485] I mean, I'd put, of your cocktail, to me, the Mabbs were that that's the lynch paper.

[2486] I think so, too.

[2487] That's what I've been telling everybody, that when people get sick, like, I don't know if you've been paying attention to this Aaron Rogers thing.

[2488] Yeah, a little bit.

[2489] Yeah.

[2490] He asked me what to do.

[2491] And I, look, in any other.

[2492] world when a friend calls you up and you've been sick with something, hey man, I got the thing that you got.

[2493] What did you do that helped you?

[2494] And I said, I really think the monoclonal anybody's helped.

[2495] And I said, do you have access to those?

[2496] And he did.

[2497] And then I recommended the vitamin drips, IV vitamin drips and be really aggressive with it.

[2498] And then I also recommended NAD.

[2499] And he did those.

[2500] And he also got better very quickly.

[2501] This is not, it shouldn't be controversial.

[2502] to tell someone what you did.

[2503] I'm not offering unsolicited medical advice.

[2504] I'm not telling people do this and don't do that.

[2505] What's odd about his case is that he told people he had been, in quotes, immunized.

[2506] I wasn't aware of this until later.

[2507] He had done some sort of a homeopathic, which to me always is, that sounds like voodoo.

[2508] When someone says homeopathic, I go, oh, you do voodoo.

[2509] Like, I don't think that's real, right?

[2510] It's homeopathic?

[2511] One part per billion?

[2512] What is homeopathic?

[2513] What is that?

[2514] What does it even mean?

[2515] It's nonsense.

[2516] It means giving a dose that is so diluted that it's non -existent and claiming that there's some benefit from it.

[2517] But what does it mean?

[2518] Like, why is it homeopathic?

[2519] What is the definition of that?

[2520] I don't know what the entomology of that word is.

[2521] Somebody gave me some homeopathic medicine once, and it was fucking sugar.

[2522] Like, when I'm taking it, it was like these little pills.

[2523] I was like, this is sugar.

[2524] It tastes so sweet.

[2525] it seems like sugar and they're like no no no it's um arnica or whatever the fuck it was and i was like bro this is sugar this is not fixing anything but anyway he did some protocol that some homeopathic doctor put him on um i don't know what the protocol was i don't know if that would even what how could you even do it like what could immunize you so he was telling people he had been he was given one copy of the virus right whatever i don't even you was given that but he has um an allergy to what is the stuff called again, Jamie, is an allergy to, it's an ingredient that is in the MRNA vaccines that it specifically says on the CDC website that if you have this, I have it in my phone, if you have this allergy, you actually should not take the MRNA vaccine.

[2526] It says it on the CDC website, in which case he would have to take the Johnson and Johnson.

[2527] Yeah, so why didn't he take that one?

[2528] I don't know.

[2529] I think he was worried about blood clots because he was like right around the time where people got blood clots where they pulled it for blood clots which is so so ridiculous I mean there's another reason yeah six people six people out of I mean I don't remember I did the math on it at the time I mean it was just another example of failing to basically communicate nuance is that what all it is?

[2530] Yeah totally now when it comes to VERS like VERS reports like how underreported are they it's a good question I mean I think they're more reported now because I think we're realizing that there could be more things going on right like at the time like put it this way when a when a drug hits the market the insert the package insert basically says these are the side effects we saw in the trial these are the things you should be aware of well at some point the real world application of that is going to be greater meaning the number of people that take it is going to be greater than what you see in the clinical trial so you know we should should see more side effects as time goes on.

[2531] And obviously, it's important that they're all reported because most of them are probably unrelated to the drug.

[2532] I mean, we know that from clinical trials.

[2533] Like if the placebo people are having more reactions than the drug people, but only by kind of capturing all of them will we see if a pattern's emerging.

[2534] I think that's, I don't know.

[2535] I mean, that to me is what's disappointing in all this, is just that somehow this has turned into anything that questions the safety of this.

[2536] this or the benefit of that somehow means you're anti that.

[2537] I mean, I'm a very pro -vaccine person, but I still think to not ask the questions about the risk versus reward trade -off.

[2538] You know, the Financial Times did a really nice analysis a few months ago that plotted by decade what the risk reduction was from the vaccine.

[2539] So if you were 85, it took you from a risk of, you know, 2 percent.

[2540] down to a risk of 0 .05 % or something like that.

[2541] And it did this if you're 80, 70, did it all the way down to 20.

[2542] And the first thing that jumps out at you, so their purpose of doing this analysis was to show that an immunized 80 -year -old has the same risk as an unimmunized 50 -year -old, which is pretty cool because a 50 -year -old's in pretty good shape.

[2543] So if you're 80 and you get the vaccine, you're now like a 50 -year -old walking around.

[2544] But two things I found interesting about this.

[2545] The first was everybody experienced about a 1 .5 law reduction in risk.

[2546] So a log is 10x, 2 log is 100x.

[2547] So 1 .5 log, just call it directionally, a 20x reduction in risk.

[2548] But what so that's at the surface that says like everybody should get vaccinated because the risk is always a 20x.

[2549] But if you don't know the harm of the thing, then that risk at some point won't be worth it.

[2550] The risk reduction.

[2551] Because a 20x reduction when you're starting at 2 % means you only need to treat 100 people to get the benefit.

[2552] But if you're a 40 -year -old or a 30 -year -old and your starting point of risk is so low, a 20 -X reduction requires you to treat 10 ,000 people to see a benefit.

[2553] So at some point, these curves intersect, the curve of risk from the vaccine and the curve of benefit from the vaccine.

[2554] And that's where children come into play.

[2555] And that's where, by my math, below the age of 13, I'm having a hard time seeing the data with the limited data set we have.

[2556] I only have anecdotal evidence based on my own children.

[2557] They both got COVID, and it was nothing.

[2558] I know that children have died from COVID, but I also know that those children, almost all of them, had pretty severe comorbidities.

[2559] Yeah, I mean, I don't know the latest data.

[2560] I know the New York database, which, you know, again, we're talking about, I mean, kids are dying way more commonly from influenza, from rhodovirus, from other things like that.

[2561] So again, look, if in a year we have enough evidence where that vaccine is just as safe as the MMR vaccine, great, let's do it.

[2562] I'm just saying, like, it's not as pressing as it was for someone like me. I thought even though my risk from dying of COVID was really low, I was more concerned with sort of the comorbidities of COVID.

[2563] Right.

[2564] There's been talk of people getting vaccinated and then catching COVID afterwards being one of the best ways to get really strong immunity because if you get vaccinated, you have a protection from death and hospitalization, and then if you get COVID, then you get the much more robust immunity that's imparted by the actual natural immunity from the infection.

[2565] I think probably you're also getting, remember vaccines are, depending on which one you get, are typically highlighting B -cell or T -cell response.

[2566] So the M -R -N -A vaccines are really good at inducing B -cell immunity, which is antibody -based immunity.

[2567] The adenovirus vaccines are better at inducing T -cell immunity, totally different type of immunity.

[2568] What is more effective at stopping the virus?

[2569] It's not clear, but my two sense on this, this as a former immunologist, but speaking like out of his ass a bit is, I think the best way to vaccinate will be one of each.

[2570] I think that if you got an MRI vaccine, and we don't have data on this yet, but I hope that we do have data to test this hypothesis.

[2571] So you would get like one shot of the J &J, wait a while, and then one shot of the Pfizer.

[2572] Exactly.

[2573] So my plan is to probably wait until Novavax gets approved in the U .S. before I get a booster and then boost with that or J &J.

[2574] And what is Novavax?

[2575] I think it's an adeno.

[2576] What's the difference between that and the adeno that we have now?

[2577] It just seems more effective.

[2578] So if you look at the European data, it seems more effective than even the MRNA vaccines.

[2579] Now, when you see people getting myocarditis and paracarditis and strokes and what have you, do you think some of that has to do with not aspirating.

[2580] Like, if someone is shooting the vaccine directly into a vein inadvertently because they didn't aspirate, do you think that that could be causing some of these side effects?

[2581] Because even when they did Joe Biden on television, they did not aspirate.

[2582] And I was shocked.

[2583] I'm watching this.

[2584] I'm like, I can't believe they just shot that into his arm.

[2585] Like, that's crazy.

[2586] You're supposed to aspirate, correct?

[2587] Yeah, although typically with these intramuscular injections, they don't really aspirate.

[2588] I mean, you know, we, I remember the first time I would teach a patient how to inject testosterone, for example, if they're doing it in the upper part of their glute, which is where you're supposed to do it, I would say, look, there's enough blood vessels there and it's a big enough needle, even though it's like a 23 gauge or maybe a 25.

[2589] Just do a quick aspiration.

[2590] Typically in the deltoid, you know, there's not really huge blood vessels there, but I don't know.

[2591] I mean, that's an interesting hypothesis.

[2592] Yeah, because it's a limited number, right?

[2593] And if this stuff is causing this problem, like, why is it causing this problem with some people and not others?

[2594] And if you're supposed to aspirate, but no one does, like, is that, I mean, there are blood vessels there, right?

[2595] Yeah, I mean, they're tiny at that point, right, because they're typically jabbing you with a little needle like this.

[2596] What's more interesting is, has anybody looked at the amount of muscle mass in the different people who are getting this?

[2597] In other words, are you more likely to get this?

[2598] Are you less likely to get it in a muscular person because there's such a big target and you're almost guaranteed to be putting it right into the muscle?

[2599] That's an interesting question.

[2600] That makes more sense.

[2601] That actually does make sense, right?

[2602] Again, it's wild speculation, but worth testing.

[2603] It's, to me, when I hear about therapies now, it's just, I feel like it's a shame that the only thing that gets discussed is the vaccine.

[2604] and in particular wanting people to get vaccinated that have already recovered from COVID seems asinine to me. It doesn't make any sense.

[2605] When we have these therapies that are available, these therapeutics, whether it's the new Pfizer stuff or for sure the monoclonal antibodies, which are very effective, why would anybody be continually pushing the vaccine on people who have already had COVID and recovered?

[2606] I don't know.

[2607] And I think what's even more hard for me to understand is why people are still being told to wear masks.

[2608] Yeah.

[2609] I mean, it's so logically inconsistent with what is so obviously inevitable.

[2610] SARS -CoV -2 is never going away.

[2611] Like, it's never going away, right?

[2612] In 50 years, this virus in one form or another will be a part of our ecosystem.

[2613] So when I see, you know, the head of the CDC talking about the importance of wearing masks, I'm saying to myself, is the implication of what you're saying that we will wear masks forever?

[2614] Because if it's important to wear a mask today for some reason that I can't understand, it will presumably be just as important in 50 years.

[2615] So is that just the new world order?

[2616] Masks everywhere.

[2617] I'll never be able to go to an airport again without wearing a mask?

[2618] I mean, we should just accept the fact that this virus is here to stay.

[2619] So let's worry more about the resilience that we're going to develop around this as opposed to, quote unquote, containment.

[2620] Do you know Naval?

[2621] Naval, Robbke?

[2622] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2623] He tweeted something I thought that was very appropriate.

[2624] He said, this pandemic is not going to end when everyone is vaccinated.

[2625] It's going to end when everyone's infected.

[2626] Everyone will be infected.

[2627] There's zero doubt in my mind.

[2628] Everyone will get this virus.

[2629] And you haven't gotten it yet.

[2630] Not to my knowledge.

[2631] Have you checked your antibodies?

[2632] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2633] I get tested all the time for whatever reason.

[2634] I mean, can I get tested again tonight?

[2635] I got tested here.

[2636] You'll get tested in an hour.

[2637] Oh, that's right.

[2638] So you're going to Formula One in Brazil?

[2639] Wow, you're a wild man. Oh, Brazil's an amazing circuit.

[2640] Oh, I've been to Brazil.

[2641] You've been to Air Lanz?

[2642] I've never been to a circuit, but I've been in Brazil for the UFC multiple times.

[2643] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2644] How did you like the F -1 here this year?

[2645] It was pretty wild.

[2646] Have you been to many races?

[2647] No, that's the first one I've ever been to.

[2648] What corner did you sit at?

[2649] I can't imagine that, I don't know.

[2650] I was in the Goldman Sachs fucking thing.

[2651] But I can't imagine that, like, this is the only Formula One race course in America.

[2652] Yeah.

[2653] It's the only built for purpose one like this.

[2654] I mean, you know, the U .S. has always had a Grand Prix, or almost has always had a Grand Prix.

[2655] But they do it in like streets, right?

[2656] Yeah.

[2657] Or they, like Watkins Glen was an actual circuit or street circuits.

[2658] But Cota's amazing.

[2659] I mean, that was sort of one of the huge perks of moving to Austin for me was to have this circuit in my backyard.

[2660] Well, you're a freak when it comes to racing.

[2661] I mean, you love that shit.

[2662] That is your thing.

[2663] I freaking love, man. Look, my son is named after the greatest driver of all time.

[2664] What's your son's name?

[2665] My youngest son is Ayurton.

[2666] Oh, Ayrton Senna.

[2667] Yeah.

[2668] Okay.

[2669] I watched that documentary on him.

[2670] It's wild.

[2671] Yeah.

[2672] The video that you were showing me today of your little Formula One car.

[2673] That's Formula 3.

[2674] Formula 3 car, whatever the fuck it is.

[2675] That thing, the little tiny car that you're whizzing around in, that's a wild video.

[2676] I mean, it is...

[2677] Where do you store that thing?

[2678] Do you have that at your house?

[2679] No, no, no, no, no. No, no. So I actually rent that car from a guy who has it stored in Houston because the real thing with those cars is you have to have an amazing mechanic.

[2680] Like you have to have a person who, because something, you're always fixing something in these cars, right?

[2681] They're not that expensive to buy, but they're expensive to run.

[2682] Right.

[2683] And it's not just the tires.

[2684] It's like, I mean, just the other day, and that video from that day, I mean, like the auto blip stopped working.

[2685] So the first session I was out there.

[2686] You know what auto blip is, but just for someone listening.

[2687] So when you're downshifting a manual car, you have to rev match.

[2688] You have to be able to, as the clutches in, you have to be able to hit the throttle a little bit so that the RPM goes up.

[2689] And then as it's winding its way down is when you want to drop the gear so that you've rev matched so that you don't engine brake and unnecessarily slow down.

[2690] So in formula cars, they auto blip because you're using paddle shifters now.

[2691] And that means anytime you do a downshift, the sensor knows it and just hits a little blip.

[2692] So I'm out there driving.

[2693] Like at the high gears, when I'm going six to five and five to four, it's working.

[2694] But when I'm going three to two, I'm not shifting.

[2695] I'm just staying in third.

[2696] And it's like there's enough slow corners at Cota where it's a total disaster.

[2697] Like the guys behind me are going to bump into me because I can't accelerate off the line.

[2698] So after two sessions of this, we're looking at the telemetry.

[2699] We're looking at the data to see why am I not doing this.

[2700] And we can't figure it out.

[2701] We're like, maybe I'm thinking I'm making a mistake.

[2702] And then we finally figure it out, the auto blip sensor stopped working.

[2703] They use auto blip on a lot of new cars, like new manual cars.

[2704] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2705] And Formula One cars are all auto blip, which is interesting because when I learned to drive paddle shift, I always blipped myself because you left foot brake.

[2706] So you heel, toe.

[2707] Well, no, no. So in my MX5, I have to heal toe because I still have a clutch.

[2708] Oh, okay.

[2709] In the formula car, you only need the clutch to get into first gear and reverse.

[2710] Once you're into first, you don't need to clutch anymore, so I left foot break.

[2711] Oh, boy, my left foot is a dummy.

[2712] My left foot, I've tried to, like, hit the brakes before.

[2713] My left foot's like, I have no nuance with my left foot.

[2714] On a street car, I still right foot break.

[2715] And any time I try to left foot break, I do this.

[2716] same thing i'm like dude what is wrong with you it's so bad but somehow somehow in a in a formula car like i feel very comfortable left foot braking maybe it's just like your brain tells you we're racing now you know we're in a racetrack because when i try to hit the brakes with my left foot i'm like you don't know what you're doing well you just don't have the you don't have the feel i know it's but it's crazy how bad it is because my right foot is so adept at it yeah but i have a simulator too so most of my reps are in a simulator well yeah you have this amazing system at house and I'm very jealous.

[2717] I need to get one of those.

[2718] Dude, I have a new one.

[2719] You should come over and check out.

[2720] I'm scared.

[2721] I'm scared.

[2722] I'll be fucking racing with you.

[2723] You don't get motion sick do you?

[2724] No, I don't.

[2725] Because that's the only thing is like I have put friends in there and they get sick as shit.

[2726] Oh, that sounds awesome.

[2727] No, I don't get motion sick, luckily.

[2728] But that system that you have, like, I should tell everybody, Peter has this thing where you have like a steering wheel that's a yoke, right?

[2729] Which is, by the way, I have that on my Tesla.

[2730] I'm getting used to this yoke which is it's a formula wheel yeah I'm not a fan for a fucking street car I think it's goofy but that's how the car comes yeah yeah um but then you have this huge screen that's kind of curved right is it curved?

[2731] I have three screens that are wrap around me yeah and then you have a real clutch and a real brake and a real accelerator so you're treating this like you're essentially seeing a very close simulation to what you would be seeing on a racetrack yeah it's I mean the the The, you know, simulators come in all shapes and size.

[2732] You can spend a million dollars on a simulator, right?

[2733] If you're a Formula One team, that's what they're spending, right?

[2734] The F1 teams have million dollar simulators.

[2735] What does that look like?

[2736] It's a real car, and it has six degrees of movement.

[2737] So it moves this way.

[2738] Oh, my God, pull that up.

[2739] It moves up and down, and it moves this way.

[2740] Oh, boy, so you get to simulate every aspect of it.

[2741] So it's like a flight simulator for like a combat pilot.

[2742] That's right.

[2743] Wow.

[2744] So then, so you've got that end, right?

[2745] And what is the visuals?

[2746] What are they seeing?

[2747] It's still three screen.

[2748] So VR, last year I, no, actually earlier this year I did the VR experiment.

[2749] So I bought the four best VR devices on the market.

[2750] Like I said, cost is irrelevant.

[2751] I don't care.

[2752] Just let me get the best four.

[2753] Right.

[2754] Tried each of them out.

[2755] Total garbage.

[2756] Really?

[2757] Yeah, total crap.

[2758] For someone like you that knows how to race.

[2759] No, no. I think for any car simulator.

[2760] So this is it?

[2761] Whoa.

[2762] So this does not look like three screens.

[2763] This is like a giant screen.

[2764] This isn't typically the ones that...

[2765] This is fucking wild.

[2766] So this seems like this guy is really driving.

[2767] Oh, he has one huge curved screen, yeah.

[2768] That is wild.

[2769] That's a million dollar racing simulator, it says.

[2770] So he's got the full cage.

[2771] He's in a car.

[2772] Oh, my God, this is fucking incredible.

[2773] Yeah, this is incredible.

[2774] It's insane.

[2775] You can never have too much money, Peter, because this is one of the things you want.

[2776] You know what's funny about this simulator, or these ones in general, is the size of the room you need to put them in.

[2777] So this guy's experiencing shake in his hands and everything.

[2778] Oh, as do I. So that's the thing I was going to say.

[2779] So you don't have to spend a million dollars to get a really good simulator, right?

[2780] If you go away from motion, just the pedals, the wheel, and the belts can provide a ton of sensory feedback.

[2781] But it feels like that would really make you a better racer.

[2782] Hit that shit again.

[2783] Let me see that from the beginning again.

[2784] Just take it back to where it was or anywhere.

[2785] When I'm watching this guy do this, it's like that seems like when you're looking at it through his POV, that seems like that would really make you a better racer.

[2786] Like, look at that.

[2787] That's wild.

[2788] Like it seems like you're racing.

[2789] The sim is everything.

[2790] And the sim is calculated to the grip of the tires and the amount of G -Force you generate.

[2791] The software I'm using is so good that when I get in the car and pull out and do an outlap, it knows the tires are cold.

[2792] If I push it, I crash.

[2793] That's crazy.

[2794] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[2795] And not only that, it has built -in tireware.

[2796] So, for example, if I'm driving the McLaren MP430, which is a Formula One car in the simulator, it has the Pirelli softs on it.

[2797] I know that the first three laps, I can't go very fast.

[2798] I have to get temperature in the tire.

[2799] I hit my peak time, laps four through seven, and then the tire degrades.

[2800] Wow.

[2801] Yeah, it's just, it's super precise.

[2802] So then what do you do?

[2803] You pull in and restart the game?

[2804] Yeah, I mean, start the simulator rather.

[2805] Yeah, or I mean, I just drive cars with tires that have a longer life so I can get, you know, 15 laps or 25 or there's some tires I can get 35 laps out of.

[2806] But they will have a commensurate.

[2807] Yeah.

[2808] Yes.

[2809] Wow.

[2810] You don't have peak stickiness.

[2811] That's crazy that it's just like the actual tire.

[2812] in the real world application.

[2813] You adjust everything.

[2814] We adjust the light.

[2815] So, for example, at Cota, if you ever run first thing in the morning, when you're going into turn six, you're freaking blind.

[2816] So I want to simulate that.

[2817] So I will tell it, show me sunrise.

[2818] Let me go do 10 laps at sunrise.

[2819] And I have to now pick new reference markers to turn because I know I can't see turn six and I can't see turn.

[2820] Actually, late in the day, you can't see turn 10.

[2821] You have to take turn 10 blind at sunset.

[2822] No!

[2823] Yeah, you have to take turn 10, which is, by the way, a flat -out corner blind.

[2824] Oh, my God, that's so crazy.

[2825] Now, are you wearing glasses?

[2826] No, I'm just in my monitors.

[2827] But when you're driving, are you wearing any kind of sunglasses?

[2828] I just have a visor, and I have multiple visors.

[2829] Is the visor...

[2830] It's UV -protectin, but I generally like wearing my clear visor, not my blacked -out visors.

[2831] Because you just want to see everything.

[2832] I want maximum acuity, yeah.

[2833] Wow.

[2834] Yeah, this is the...

[2835] the ones that I normally used to see it okay this one's bullshit though that one comparison depends if it's moving depends if that's oh see this one I know that I'm in a race simulator this one's fucking weak but you're still getting a ton of value out of this because remember the big part of the simulator is learning the track right is learning the line and learning the learning the steering control and the throttle control this looks pretty dope right here it's enough it'll get you enough so it's like like you're looking through a weird windshield or something.

[2836] Yeah, the problem with VR.

[2837] That's 2009.

[2838] Is it just, it, the ref, yeah, it doesn't, that was the Williams FW 16, that was the FW16, yeah.

[2839] So the, um, the refresh rate is not fast enough and the resolution is not high enough.

[2840] So it's, it's, it's, I think VR is probably awesome for a flight simulator because things aren't moving that fast in a flight simulator, even though, you're traveling fast, your relative distance is not, but in a car, like, you see how, you know what it's, like drive a car fast.

[2841] Like, things are happening like that.

[2842] What kind of refresh rate of those monitors?

[2843] My monitor is refreshing at 320 frames per second.

[2844] Wow.

[2845] It's not in Hertz?

[2846] Well, Hertz is.

[2847] That's what it is?

[2848] Hertz is frames per second?

[2849] Hertz is one over 60, but yeah.

[2850] Oh, okay.

[2851] So they talk about it in frames per second.

[2852] So it's smooth, even though you're...

[2853] I can run, with my computer, I can run at the maximum capacity of the simulator.

[2854] Wow.

[2855] That's wild.

[2856] But what do I not have?

[2857] I don't have movement.

[2858] I don't have yaw.

[2859] Right.

[2860] And yaw is the single most important feeling for a driver to develop.

[2861] The ability to recognize the G -Force on your body.

[2862] It's the ability to know the difference between front and your rear grip.

[2863] Oh.

[2864] And the simulator doesn't have that?

[2865] Mine does not.

[2866] If I want that, I have to spend 10 times as much.

[2867] Okay.

[2868] So that's those million dollars.

[2869] So for me, I know that I'm oversteering only by vision.

[2870] So if I'm driving the carousel at Coda, right, and that's a corner where you, in a high -down -force car, can go flat out.

[2871] You can be pedal to the metal around 16, 17, 18 of Cota, that curve at the end.

[2872] But in most cars, you can't.

[2873] And in the Formula 3 car that I showed you the video of, I can't, you can't be flat out in that corner.

[2874] It doesn't have enough down force.

[2875] And you judge the grip of a car, the ability around a corner, it's based on feel, correct?

[2876] Yes.

[2877] And that's what's missing from the simulator.

[2878] It's, it's, so what happens in the simulator is I'm pushing, how hard can I go?

[2879] Right.

[2880] And I know I've gone too far when I see, uh -oh, my back is spinning out from under me. Mm -hmm.

[2881] The problem is that's happening.

[2882] a split second after I would have felt it.

[2883] So in the simulator, it's actually harder to correct oversteer than in a real car.

[2884] So it's only giving you like 70 % knowledge or something like that.

[2885] When it comes to oversteer.

[2886] Understeer is different.

[2887] Understeer is a visual thing.

[2888] So the simulator is perfect for understeer, but it is limited in oversteer.

[2889] Wow.

[2890] There's too many things in this world.

[2891] You could get really excited.

[2892] You are like me that you don't want to try to play golf for the same.

[2893] never gonna play golf well I see how you've taken to bow hunting and I see how you've taken to racing yeah there's too many things in this world um should probably wrap this up we're we're more than three hours in yeah no wild fucking time warp in this room right it's the lack of light it's like a casino no windows it's a little bit of that but it's just interesting conversation you know uh how do you like this studio i love to your last one yeah the last one which is right next door.

[2894] Well, I have two years.

[2895] No, no, I mean the one in L .A., I'm sorry.

[2896] Oh, this is like the same.

[2897] It's not much different in terms of like the inside of it.

[2898] I like this one better than the one that I had in L .A. But in terms of the studio space, like where I'm at, now that I'm opening putting a gym here, it's great.

[2899] I loved having the gym there and having a sauna and, you know, are you going to bring the archery simulator thing?

[2900] Yep.

[2901] Yeah, I'm going to bring that next time.

[2902] I want to try that.

[2903] Yeah, it's fun.

[2904] You'll love it.

[2905] Yeah, you just have to fly.

[2906] Your arrow, do you?

[2907] Yeah.

[2908] You shoot everything.

[2909] You just take out your regular field tips for a flathead tip that looks like the head of a nail.

[2910] Okay.

[2911] And you're shooting it into a Kevlar screen.

[2912] And it's all HD animals roaming around and they scream and they do everything.

[2913] Like the elk bugle, just like a real elk does.

[2914] It's amazing.

[2915] All right.

[2916] Yeah, you'll love it.

[2917] I'll get that in soon.

[2918] Next time you're here, we'll do that.

[2919] Awesome, man. Thank you, brother.

[2920] I appreciate you.

[2921] Thank you, Jamie.

[2922] Tell everybody your Instagram and all that jazz.

[2923] Peter Atia M .D. A -T -T -I -A -M -D, that's Instagram and Twitter as well.

[2924] Yeah, and the podcast is The Drive.

[2925] The Drive, and that's on everything.

[2926] Every single Monday, all on health and longevity.

[2927] All right.

[2928] Bye, everybody.