8 - Eight Is Enough Murders

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] And begin.

[17] Here we go.

[18] Here we are.

[19] You ready to talk about murder?

[20] Because we are.

[21] because we are murderers.

[22] Hey, this.

[23] Hi, everybody.

[24] Hey, this.

[25] Hi, guys.

[26] Territ and Georgia.

[27] This is my favorite murder.

[28] That's probably the most uncomfortable part for me is when we're talking not to each other, but to the audience.

[29] It's very unnatural.

[30] So we're like introducing something and like clearly we haven't rehearsed this at all.

[31] No, we don't have any radio experience.

[32] We're not professionals in that way.

[33] Hello, everyone.

[34] Yeah.

[35] Word, like you say a word and then I say a word.

[36] and we'll go back and forth.

[37] My.

[38] Seeing Menon.

[39] Yes, exactly.

[40] Did you say by Menon?

[41] No. That's how good we are at this.

[42] We don't have any kind of instinct toward what the other person's doing, and we always guess wrong.

[43] Yeah, and we talk over each other.

[44] It's perfect.

[45] There we are.

[46] And yet, and yet, we have a thousand people on the Facebook group.

[47] One thousand.

[48] I know, and this is episode eight.

[49] That's a very high number.

[50] And none of them are sexist racist, jerks yet.

[51] I hear, now I'm not on Facebook, brag, brag, brag, brag.

[52] I know.

[53] But from what I hear from Georgia, everyone is the coolest on our Facebook page.

[54] They're all like, there's all these people that feel like they've come home and they can finally talk to someone about murder and like, because like their husbands and siblings and everyone thinks they're fucking weirdos for being into murder.

[55] And then suddenly they found their people.

[56] God bless you all.

[57] Someone even said, hey, and anyone in the New York area want to have a murder meetup?

[58] And I'm like, that's how you get murdered.

[59] Don't do that.

[60] But that's very sweet of you.

[61] Yeah, that's easy to misinterpret.

[62] in any direction.

[63] It can either be murder everybody or have a murder meetup and then just murders.

[64] You're going to get murdered.

[65] I would just be super clear with the wording in that meetup.

[66] I'd also like to say that we have nothing to do with anyone who gets murdered because of this podcast.

[67] We reserve the right to...

[68] To not be culpable?

[69] Yep.

[70] Into perpetuity.

[71] Exactly.

[72] Those are two legal words that I know.

[73] That was legal as fuck.

[74] It felt pretty great.

[75] We had a murder meetup today.

[76] We ate lunch before this recording.

[77] We both had eggs.

[78] It's pretty nice.

[79] And talked about, like, about the Simpson show, which we're calling the Simpsons.

[80] The New Simpsons, the People versus OJ Simpson.

[81] And we talked about that extensively.

[82] I feel like I could talk about it forever.

[83] I do, too.

[84] I mean, they are killing it, literally.

[85] It's so great.

[86] It's so great.

[87] And I was telling Georgia that Pat Nosswald, everyone's favorite standout comedian, is now on Twitter actively praising Sarah Paulson for her performance as Marsha Clark.

[88] Nothing makes me happier.

[89] Do you think his wife is a little bit?

[90] built like, get off of my fucking, this is my, murder is my thing.

[91] And you're kind of stepping out my toes right now.

[92] Like if she were going to be having a stand -up comedian all of a sudden.

[93] You know what I picture, Michelle McNamara is just always in the other room with her sleeves rolled up trying to solve crime in real life.

[94] And that's why she's my hero.

[95] She is such a badass.

[96] She's like, you can tweet whatever you want because I'm in the real world.

[97] That's adorable.

[98] I'm being a fucking investigative journalist over here.

[99] Go talk about your murder show that happened.

[100] 25 years ago.

[101] Right.

[102] That people from American Horror Story are acting out now.

[103] Yeah.

[104] It's adorable.

[105] Okay.

[106] Is there any little part of your brain that is like open to the idea that OJ didn't do it?

[107] No. Okay.

[108] Just making sure.

[109] I understand why people think that and want to believe it.

[110] Um, but I don't think that you can beat your wife up for years and years.

[111] And I think he beat his first wife up too.

[112] Yeah.

[113] Like you, that as a pattern and as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, you having explosive anger and violent reactions to things.

[114] Plus, as we all are starting to learn, the concussion elements in football, that lots of football players have these problems that could truly stem back to, like, mental issues.

[115] Rage issues.

[116] I don't think that that just kind of stops at a certain point.

[117] Like, yeah, I don't think that's a controllable thing.

[118] Or all of those things happen, and then just some stranger comes and kills these two people that, yeah, it doesn't, it wouldn't make sense.

[119] Right.

[120] And also with all the evidence.

[121] There would be blood evidence that would have, they, I honestly believe that, that defense team that was just going to town would have found other blood and been like, what about this guy?

[122] Because that's, they were doing, they were scrambling and they got him off.

[123] I mean, like, it's incredible.

[124] It's amazing.

[125] So if they, if there was another person, I trust that that dream team would have been like, here's the person.

[126] Here's their name.

[127] here's their blood.

[128] Here's why we think that, yeah, that's a very good point.

[129] Yeah.

[130] Okay.

[131] But also I know there's just bias because I really love the fact that I lived through it and now I'm watching it on TV.

[132] I know.

[133] Isn't it?

[134] It's funny when they'll be like a dramatic turn and you're like, oh, and you're like, wait, no, he still gets off.

[135] Like you know the outcome.

[136] We know the ending.

[137] Yeah.

[138] But yet, it's still a great.

[139] That's the testament to the show is that it's so good.

[140] Yeah.

[141] And they're telling you the things you don't know about it, which I love.

[142] The only part of it that I am.

[143] not into is O .J. Simpson, like, what's his name?

[144] Cuba Gooden, Jordan.

[145] As O .J. Simpson.

[146] Yeah, he doesn't look right.

[147] He doesn't.

[148] I can't picture O .J. Simpson when I look at him.

[149] Right.

[150] For so many reasons.

[151] Someone just texted me that they saw Tracy Morgan when he talked when Cuba Gooden Jr. dog.

[152] Like Cuba is playing Tracy Morgan?

[153] Who's playing OJ.

[154] Oh.

[155] Oh.

[156] You know what I mean?

[157] But somewhere in there, Tracy Morgan is.

[158] Well, very few men look like OJ Simpson.

[159] That would have a really hard thing to cast, I think.

[160] Yeah.

[161] I guess, I just, I wish someone was, he was bigger.

[162] You know who should have played it?

[163] Who?

[164] Shemar Moore.

[165] Who's that?

[166] Criminal Minds.

[167] Oh.

[168] He used to be on a soap opera.

[169] And the reason I know him so well is because when I worked on the Ellen DeGeneres talk show, anytime there would be, somebody would drop out, like if there was an emergency, they would always call Shemar Moore because he was an amazing guest.

[170] He was usually available because he was on criminal minds, so he was always in town.

[171] Yeah.

[172] And because he was on a soap opera, he had the crazy high Q rating.

[173] So we'd get spikes in our rating.

[174] Holy shit.

[175] Even though he wasn't like famous, famous, he was like beloved.

[176] Wow.

[177] Yeah.

[178] Yeah, I'd like to see who was on that like audition list.

[179] And if Cuba Good and Jordan just got picked because for whatever reason.

[180] Well, because he is a good actor.

[181] Yes.

[182] And like those times where he's in jail and like, yeah, there's great.

[183] He's pathetic moments.

[184] But yeah, he just doesn't look right.

[185] Yeah, he has this great, you feel bad for him because he clearly doesn't understand what's going on.

[186] Yeah.

[187] I like that character he's playing, but it doesn't feel like OJ Simpson's into me. Right.

[188] Well, because there's too much, yeah, he seems bewildered and confused, which might be an act that like there's a reveal later.

[189] Right.

[190] But it's, I want to see someone that's a little more going with the story he's being given.

[191] Yeah.

[192] Knowing that he's, he has an out after having killed to people.

[193] Yeah.

[194] Jesus.

[195] But maybe that's just my agenda.

[196] No. I think that's true.

[197] And I feel like this week in The Simpsons, like we open every episode now.

[198] Because it's so good.

[199] I hope everyone's watching.

[200] Exactly.

[201] And the idea that you decided to call it the Simpsons is my favorite thing of all time.

[202] Should we talk about our favorite murder?

[203] Yes.

[204] So this week we were doing strange ways to die.

[205] Yeah.

[206] Originally we were going to, we just shot out the idea.

[207] We're weird murder weapons.

[208] Yes.

[209] and I just like Google that and it's just like really boring stories.

[210] Lots of one -offs, which I'm not interested in.

[211] Like crimes of passion where a woman kills a man with the stiletto heel where it's like, well yeah, but that's just crimes of past.

[212] Exactly.

[213] There was a good one of a guy who was like clearly grooming a 10 year old boy to be like his child molest him.

[214] Yeah.

[215] And the guy, the kid one day was like, fuck this and took a pickle jar and smashed him over the head with it.

[216] But then he stabbed him to death.

[217] So it's It's not like the pickle jar killed him.

[218] Right.

[219] You know.

[220] It just stopped him for a second.

[221] Yeah.

[222] And that's the amount of the story.

[223] I could, like that's the story.

[224] So I would have had no story to tell.

[225] Well, yeah, there's, um, when it comes down to it, I was thinking, oh, I bet I could find a zero killer killed people like a boat and arrow or something.

[226] Right.

[227] That's just in the movies.

[228] But yes, exactly.

[229] When you're, when you're reverse researching stuff like that, just stuff comes up.

[230] I was also thinking of hope there's going to be, there's a person I want to talk about in the future, who is the Sacramento vampire killer.

[231] Oh, right.

[232] She's so creepy, but when he actually killed people, he just killed them with guns.

[233] So it all boils down to boring weapons.

[234] Listen, if you're a killer out there, you got to get a little more creative if you want to make it on to this show.

[235] Yeah.

[236] How about you do one of those?

[237] Like in, um...

[238] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[239] In the line of fire, John...

[240] No, I always do that one.

[241] I think I know the end of a story.

[242] Yes.

[243] John Malkovich makes a gun out of wood.

[244] So that he can, he gets the metal detector and he can kill the president.

[245] Like really makes a gun gun.

[246] Yes.

[247] That's cool.

[248] No, I was going to say in, um, in, uh, one where he, he, I can't remember, he kills people with the, the cow air gun.

[249] Yes.

[250] Oh, no country for old men.

[251] Thank you.

[252] The best.

[253] That, that's, yeah, something like that.

[254] Someone needs to not do to us.

[255] That movie is so fucking perfect.

[256] I've seen that so many times.

[257] It's gorgeous and I don't like movies.

[258] Gorgeous.

[259] And the idea that you would kill someone that life is so fucked up.

[260] It's so fucked up and it's like not necessary because guns.

[261] Because guns.

[262] All right, do you want me to go first since you went first last?

[263] Sure, but what if we have the same one?

[264] Well, I would be shocked because here's what I did.

[265] Okay.

[266] Oh, wait, so the topic is now weird ways people have been killed or died.

[267] Yes.

[268] Okay.

[269] So here's how.

[270] I'll just take you down my thought process.

[271] murder journey on this week.

[272] So last week, when we were talking about O .J. Simpson, we started talking about Dominic Dunn.

[273] Right, which I fucked up and said she got killed the wrong way.

[274] We both did because I immediately agreed with you.

[275] But here's the thing.

[276] So I, and we once talked about this, we were going to have a correction section when we go through, because a bunch of people tweeted at us to say, Dominic Dunn was killed by her ex -boyfriend who was stalking her, but she wasn't killed by a fan.

[277] You are thinking of Rebecca Schaefer from my sister Sam.

[278] That's exactly true.

[279] It's what we were, but I thought of the exact same thing and I was right there with you.

[280] Now, So I went to look it up to be like, okay, here's going to be our correction.

[281] Well, it turns out that it was, they were very, very similar murders.

[282] They were both actresses.

[283] Dominique Dunn was 22.

[284] Rebecca Schaefer was 21.

[285] Oh my God.

[286] Both murdered at their homes.

[287] Dominique Dunn was murdered by her ex -boyfriend who was stalking her and who she was trying to be like reasonable with.

[288] And she actually, the creepy thing to me about her murder is that she was doing everything she could to like stay safe and there was a guy she had her friend over watching TV with her when the ex -boyfriend showed up wanting to quote unquote talk to her and made her come out on the porch and so the guy was like waiting inside thinking everything was fine because they're outside they're outside talking then he doesn't see them then he goes out around back to see if they went into the backyard finally comes around front and sees the ex -boyfriend standing over her strength he has strangled her to death how are you how do you know if someone's going to be like a stalker light or is it a murderer?

[289] I mean, I think the lesson we're slowly learning is that, like, if you have an abusive boyfriend, you have to break up with him and not get back together with him, not, like, you have to cut him out of your life.

[290] Completely.

[291] Because that's, it's the mistake.

[292] I mean, not to say that she made a mistake, but she did get back together with him once.

[293] You give him the idea and an opening to be back, to think that he's back in your life and has a way to do it and he's just.

[294] Yeah, that he can convince you.

[295] And he doesn't stop, which is clearly not.

[296] not the woman's fault.

[297] No. But we need to be able to not let them come back in our lives at all.

[298] Well, and in both of these cases, it's that thing of women being polite.

[299] Oh, my God.

[300] It's women thinking they're afraid to be a bitch or they're afraid to make a strong stand.

[301] So in Rebecca Schaefer's case, it was a stalker, had been stalking her for three years, and you ended up hiring a private investigator to find her home address.

[302] And so that was actually after her murder between that and the Teresa Saldana attack, which she didn't die.

[303] That was the woman who's the co -star of Raging Bull who ended up getting attacked by her stalker.

[304] That's both of those.

[305] It ended up changing.

[306] They created the first anti -stalking law in California in 1990, I believe, because of those two things.

[307] Amazing.

[308] But those two things were totally parallel.

[309] They were just seven years apart.

[310] But they were almost exactly the same.

[311] So I was, because I was like, we both made the exact same mistake.

[312] That's weird.

[313] And so I wanted to look into it.

[314] And that brought me down the road because Dominique Dunn is most famous for being a part of cursed movies.

[315] Is she poltergeist?

[316] Yes.

[317] She was the teenage sister and polter guys.

[318] When she flips off the fucking construction workers in her backyard and I was a kid, I was like, I want to be like that when I grow up.

[319] Yes.

[320] And both of those girls were very like, there were girls that when you watch them on TV or in movies, you were like, I know that girl.

[321] Yeah.

[322] Like total girl next door.

[323] Yeah.

[324] So I went into cursed movies, cursed movie thing.

[325] So that's my thing.

[326] That's not what I did.

[327] That's badass.

[328] Okay.

[329] So Poultergeist, the trilogy of movies, they've had all these deaths and tragedies associated with the movie.

[330] Love this shit.

[331] So I'm just going to walk you on through.

[332] And then I have two other ones that get shorter as they go.

[333] No, I dig it.

[334] But we start with Poultergeist.

[335] So Dominique Dunn was murdered five months after the release of Poultergeist one.

[336] the original Poltergeist.

[337] Okay.

[338] And then Polterize 2, Julian Beck was the guy that played Kane, that super creepy preacher.

[339] And he died of stomach cancer at age 60 right after that movie came out.

[340] After 2.

[341] That was in 1983.

[342] That was Poltergeist 2.

[343] That came on 83?

[344] Yeah.

[345] How did I watch that?

[346] Okay.

[347] What do you mean?

[348] Because I just remember, I feel like I remember seeing it in the theater, but I must not have, because that's too young for me to have to.

[349] You had been too young?

[350] Yeah.

[351] Well, there was three of them.

[352] Yeah.

[353] You've seen part three where they were in the apartment building.

[354] No, maybe I, maybe we got it on VHS.

[355] Oh, okay.

[356] Okay, go on.

[357] Then in 1987, Will Sampson, um, who played in Poltergeist, who played Taylor the Medicine Man, the bit, who was the big silent Indian and one floor for the cuckusiness.

[358] Oh, yeah, he's incredible.

[359] Yeah.

[360] He died of scleroderma, which is a degenerative, um, uh, chronic degenerative condition that basically he ended up like having kidney failure and all this stuff.

[361] So he died and he was only 53.

[362] Man, there's just like so many ways you can die.

[363] Like if you, if you want to think about it a lot, there's just.

[364] There's all these things.

[365] There's all these things.

[366] If it's not murder, then it could be a disease.

[367] It could be some weird gene just clicks on.

[368] It's not could have.

[369] It's gonna.

[370] Well, you're gonna.

[371] There's gonna be something.

[372] That's really what it is.

[373] Oh, God.

[374] We're all ticking time off.

[375] Okay, go on.

[376] Then the one that, that got this idea of this movie is cursed going.

[377] Is Heather Rourke?

[378] Because she died when she was 12 years old.

[379] It was 1987 the same year as Will Sampson.

[380] And it was before the release.

[381] And some people say before the ending of the shooting of Poltergeist 3.

[382] So she was the little girl, but she's like the main character in Poltergeist.

[383] She's in the middle of shooting.

[384] Yeah.

[385] Caroline, Lactos, she's halfway through shooting the third one.

[386] Yes.

[387] I think more than halfway.

[388] through, but they, some people say they can't get it confirmed that there's a body double for the rest of the shooting because she died.

[389] And it was, they had diagnosed her as having Crohn's disease.

[390] But what she actually really had was a bowel obstruction.

[391] So she got the flu, went into septic shock and then cardiac arrest.

[392] They rush her to, I think it was Cedars Sinai.

[393] Holy shit.

[394] And she died on the operating table.

[395] So that's like a simple thing that could have been fixed.

[396] Yes.

[397] And she was just mystic.

[398] diagnosed.

[399] So that's, and just only 12.

[400] So that's when everyone started freaking out that there's something wrong with this.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Like, this whole movie is cursed.

[403] Then a guy named Lou Perryman who played a small part in the first Poltergeist Pugsley.

[404] He was in 2009, he was murdered by an axe -wielding ex -con who broke into his apartment.

[405] Oh, my God.

[406] Just flat out horribly murdered.

[407] Why?

[408] Him specifically, or did it just happen that way?

[409] Um, they think it was just somebody trying to rob him, but he, like, the guy had an axe and then just ended up killing him.

[410] Or it was a cursed movie.

[411] Or it was a cursed movie and it was just a man possessed by a demon.

[412] That's crazy.

[413] Okay.

[414] Then Richard Lawson, who played the parapsychologist Ryan in the original.

[415] I liked him.

[416] Um, yeah, he's, and he's been in, when I looked on his Wikipedia page, it just went on and on.

[417] He has been in a million things and he still is like, um, up until, like, 2016, like, released.

[418] pending.

[419] Like, he's been in everything.

[420] And he was on, he was in a commercial airline crash where there were 51 people, passengers on the plane, 27 of them died and he walked away.

[421] So more than half the people on the plane died.

[422] And miraculously, he walked away.

[423] So that kind of is like, you know, it's, you know, say a tragedy associated, but it almost is kind of like, well, that it's a freak accident.

[424] It's a freak accident that he didn't die in.

[425] So it's almost like, well, maybe he ended the curse.

[426] If I were him, I would never leave the house.

[427] Well, but, or would it be that thing where I survived to fucking plane crash that other people didn't?

[428] That's true.

[429] I'm invincible or whatever.

[430] That's true.

[431] But also, turned out, and Joe Beth Williams talked about this in an interview she did once, but she found out after her, so you know that huge crazy scene at the end where they fall into the pool and there's all the skeletons.

[432] Those were real human skeletons that they used.

[433] Because apparently a rubber skeleton remake is more expensive than just using real ones.

[434] Who gave them skeletons?

[435] They probably bought them from prop house or whatever.

[436] But a lot of people think that that has something to do with it.

[437] But then also they say that the remake that they just came out with my boyfriend, Sam Rockwell, that they shot it on a house that had a big field behind it so they could kind of of like recreate all that stuff.

[438] And apparently, they couldn't get any of the electronic stuff to work in this field.

[439] They couldn't get, they were using drones to shoot overhead shots.

[440] And the drones wouldn't work.

[441] They wouldn't register the field.

[442] Oh, my God, I'm getting chills.

[443] Yeah.

[444] So there was like, there was a thing where there, there was all kinds of problems and weird shit going on on that set.

[445] Oh, my God.

[446] I'm like going to throw up right now.

[447] Well, then that brought me around.

[448] That brought me to a cracked article, which is.

[449] If you don't go on to cracked .com, you're crazy.

[450] It's the best website.

[451] It gives you listicles, but they're written so hilarious.

[452] So well.

[453] And it's like BuzzFeed for smart, funny people.

[454] Yeah, and it's like the topics they do are just absolutely incredible.

[455] Like the 10 scariest mysteries that can not be explained or like, oh, I love Crack.

[456] Or like 10 YouTube videos that are actually what they say they are, like truly scary and crazy.

[457] Right.

[458] Yeah, Cracked is amazing.

[459] So that's, that led me to this list.

[460] and they had, it was like six cursed movie sets, but I only did, because the next one that that turned me on to was The Exorcist.

[461] Oh, shit.

[462] Which it makes, you know, it makes sense that this is cursed.

[463] Yeah, it's not like, it's not like My Fair Lady was cursed.

[464] It's like fucked up movies, like The Exorcist.

[465] And this one's crazy.

[466] Oh my God, I want to hear it.

[467] I don't know this.

[468] So it's, Actorcist was shot in 1973 or came out in 1973.

[469] It shot the year before.

[470] Okay.

[471] I'll just start here.

[472] The shooting was delayed after the set caught fire.

[473] So there's a set of their house.

[474] If you've seen the movie, if you haven't seen the movie, you have to.

[475] It's the scariest movie.

[476] It's so 70s and it's so like, it's not scary because things are popping out.

[477] It gets scary, obviously, later when she's possessed.

[478] But in the beginning, it's just all tone and feel.

[479] It's just like, lighting and music and, yeah, tone.

[480] And when they bring Reagan to the hospital to see what's wrong with her, there's a part where she's, in like this MRI machine thing that is one of the scariest things and it's just medical equipment there's nothing actually happening but it's like you know they just did it perfectly you know man they don't need drones to make a fucking movie cool anymore right I mean back then this set caught on fire for no reason the only thing that they can figure out was they thought maybe a pigeon landed in like the breaker boxes like the electrical boxes but other than that they couldn't figure out a reason why it would catch on fire.

[481] And the only room that didn't burn was Reagan's room, which is where all the possession, demonic shit takes place at the end of the movie.

[482] I quit the movie at that point.

[483] It didn't burn.

[484] Everything else in the house burned.

[485] That's insane.

[486] So shooting was delayed because of that.

[487] Then, and I read a couple different versions of this story, but the one that seemed the most consistent was that it happened to Ellen Burstyn.

[488] So there's a scene where when Reagan is totally possessed, she throws her mother against the wall.

[489] and in the movie she gets thrown against the wall falls down and there's this blood -curdling scream well it's because Ellen Burstyn the way it happened she like broke her spine and the scream is real oh I hate I feel like there's so there's like a scene in Jaws too I feel like in the 70s and 80s they were like let's just use it we like didn't do that right and the person is screaming because they're in pain exactly and it's like what better kind of blood curdling scream as opposed to like somebody standing and it's recording like screaming It's her real scream of her spine breaking.

[490] They're like, it's realistic because it's real.

[491] Because it happens.

[492] Oh, my God, that's awful.

[493] And also, this was one of the first movies that ever used subliminal recordings.

[494] That's fucking awesome.

[495] Part of the other reason that it's such a freaky movie is because subliminally, they're playing tapes of bees, of swarms of bees, buzzing bees, and lions growling like before they eat something.

[496] So, like, in your brain, in your old brain, you like understand.

[497] You can hear these like emergency emergency get out.

[498] But it's like in the lead up parts.

[499] I love that it's not even like subliminally like a baby crying or like subliminally someone getting stabbed.

[500] It's like sublimity shit that way back when when we were fucking animals.

[501] Yes.

[502] We needed to be afraid of.

[503] Run away.

[504] Run away.

[505] There's bees.

[506] Love it.

[507] And also there's that part where when Kara sees his mother coming up out of the sidewalk, out of the subway.

[508] It's that part where.

[509] she had died and he didn't see her and he has all this guilt and he keeps dreaming about her coming and like crying for her him across the street or whatever um in that scene and i've actually watched it and paused it they just flick in for half a second this horrifying face no yeah and you can look it up online it's a great it's like it looks like a really white face with dark black circles underneath and red red in the eyes and red in the mouth i'm gonna cry i want to for crying right now.

[510] It's crazy, creepy.

[511] Okay, so.

[512] So, then let's see.

[513] Oh, so the actor who played the director.

[514] So the plot of the movie said Ellen Burson's an actress and she's in this movie.

[515] And so all the shit starts happening while she's in this movie and she has to quit the movie.

[516] Well, the director of the movie is played by an actor named Jack McGowan who died days after completing his scenes of the flu.

[517] What?

[518] And he was 54.

[519] So just kind of strangely randomly, just dies of the flu.

[520] What is this fucking?

[521] Then the woman who plays Caris's mother, who is in that thing of like, she's an 89 -year -old Greek woman who literally got cast like, I think out of a restaurant, a Greek restaurant or something, she died of natural causes like days after Jack McGowan died.

[522] Wow.

[523] They died within like six days of each other.

[524] And they're the two characters in the movie who die.

[525] Oh, fuck.

[526] So then there's, these are the other like tragedies and deaths.

[527] Linda Blair's grandfather died while shooting.

[528] Max von Saito's brother died on the first day he started shooting.

[529] Holy shit.

[530] And he plays the old priest that comes to Father Karras.

[531] Jason Miller, who plays Father Karras, his son was hit and almost killed by a motorcycle during shooting.

[532] Jesus fucking.

[533] Mercedes McCambridge, I think that's how you pronounce.

[534] her last name did the voice of the demon when when linda blair is you know possessed yeah um in 1987 her son murdered his wife and children and then killed himself whoa which is you know 10 15 years after all of it yeah still like it's just the curse thing where it's like how many movies can you say have this many like a crazy tragedies and hideous things yeah um and this is the best at the premiere in Rome, they're at this theater and across the street is a 16th century church and as the people are filing in to the movie premiere, a rainstorm and lightning storm starts going.

[535] Everyone's in the theater and before the movie starts, they hear this crazy noise outside.

[536] Lightning had struck the cross on top of this church.

[537] It had been there for 400 years and this eight foot cross falls off the church and into the plaza across from the theater.

[538] Holy.

[539] shit.

[540] That's not God being like, nope.

[541] Yeah.

[542] Or the devil being like, how dare you try to fight me?

[543] So the last one is Rosemary's baby.

[544] Oh, I knew it because I was going to say it sounds like the plot of Rosemary's baby, which is that like, you know, the actor gets stricken with blindness to get the role.

[545] Okay.

[546] Yes.

[547] So, yeah.

[548] And this is, if you look it up and you can find plenty of websites because there's a bunch of other ones.

[549] And there's a really good one, but it's not even cursed.

[550] It's just there's that that movie, I think it's Genghis Khan.

[551] I don't remember what the title is, but it's the John Wayne movie where they ended up, they shot like five miles downwind from where they were testing A -bombs in the desert.

[552] So everyone got cancer.

[553] Yeah.

[554] Every fucking buddy got cancer.

[555] And they took dirt from the set where they shot like on a location.

[556] And tested it.

[557] And then they took it back and used it in the studio set.

[558] So like everybody got cancer.

[559] Oh my fucking.

[560] I love shit like that.

[561] I mean, you know what I mean?

[562] It's so terrible.

[563] It's just like the worst mistake anyone's ever made.

[564] Yeah, like that is the most toxic dirt.

[565] Yeah, you don't want that.

[566] I thought you were going to say they tested it and they found that it was, nope, they used it.

[567] Nope, they brought it back and used it.

[568] Jeez.

[569] Yeah.

[570] And also the, also the female lead in that movie was attacked by a black panther.

[571] Sure.

[572] The real animal.

[573] Yeah.

[574] Not a political activist.

[575] I figured, I figured you would.

[576] I figured you wouldn't.

[577] I figured something would be different in that.

[578] Yeah.

[579] A real, got attacked by a panther.

[580] And the funniest thing to me was that that was like a one -line thing.

[581] I'm like, I would like to know more about this.

[582] Like, where was she?

[583] What happened?

[584] What had the Black Panther had for breakfast?

[585] Like, I want to know everything.

[586] So insane.

[587] So on Rosemary's baby, and this is a short one, but just the man who was the composer, um, died of a brain clot a year after filming, which is the same way a character in the movie dies.

[588] Didn't he die that way?

[589] In the movie?

[590] Yes.

[591] Oh, the composer of them.

[592] The real composer of the movie.

[593] in real life died of a brain clot the way the guy in the movie died holy shit and then of course we all know Roman Polansky who bought the house from Terry Melcher who was a music producer who would not record Charles Manson's music and so Charles Manson sent his death hippies up to murder everybody thinking he was going to kill Terry Melcher and he ended up killing Roman Polansky's wife Sharon Tate her unborn baby and four other people Jay Sebring the famous hairdresser and Polanski was in London at the time So he just by chance missed that I didn't realize that there was a reason They went to that house Yeah I think I thought they just went there Because wasn't it the air to the What was it the coffee fortune That lived there?

[594] Folgers Oh yeah I don't I mean it was Roman Polanski's house though I think she was there She was there but I thought they went there to like Because it was rich people I didn't realize they went there Because Manson was like You wouldn't, you wouldn't.

[595] This is how he talks?

[596] You wouldn't record my music.

[597] Amen.

[598] Hey man. Yeah.

[599] Oh, I didn't know that.

[600] He had a reason.

[601] But then once they were there, they didn't care.

[602] They were just like we're killing all these people.

[603] Right.

[604] But here's what I find interesting about that is that they called the Manson family called that Helter Skelter, that murder spree, which of course was a Beatles song.

[605] And then in 1980, John Lennon was shot in front of the Dakota, the same apartment building used as the exterior of the apartment building for Rosemary's Baby.

[606] No. The end of my thing.

[607] I'm just going to kick my glass of water over right now because I can't even handle any of this.

[608] I'm just going to, I just want to kick it.

[609] There's so many good things like that, but that's, I mean, I kind of went way off our theme.

[610] No, but there was a line.

[611] It was a linear narrative that started with a murder.

[612] Yes.

[613] That we had talked about before.

[614] Exactly.

[615] So I deemed that, okay.

[616] Thank you, good.

[617] And also, it makes me just want to say, we love it when you tell us.

[618] us if we make mistakes.

[619] Yeah.

[620] Because this conversation can be so dense.

[621] Yeah.

[622] Shit we're talking about sometimes that obviously I definitely make those mistakes all the time.

[623] We want to hear it if you're like, wait, no, that's not right.

[624] And we're only, I mean, Karen and I really only researched the ones we're going to talk about.

[625] So if we're just randomly going off in a tangent about something else, we're not going to have, like, be looking it up in the moment.

[626] Yes.

[627] It's called research and we're not doing it.

[628] So we want you to definitely help us and add because once I, I saw a couple people be like, I remember very specifically when she was murdered and stuff.

[629] So then I was like, oh, yeah, we should tell that story accurately that then led me down that path.

[630] Just don't be mean about it because we have very fragile self -esteem.

[631] We will just fall apart if you're mean.

[632] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[633] Absolutely.

[634] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[635] Exactly.

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[651] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[652] Goodbye.

[653] Hey, this is exciting.

[654] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[655] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[656] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[657] Who killed Saz?

[658] And were they really after Charles?

[659] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[660] This season, murder hits close to home.

[661] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[662] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[663] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[664] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll.

[665] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Meryl Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[666] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[667] Goodbye.

[668] So this is the murder of, hold on, Rebecca Zahoo.

[669] Zahau, Zahau, I'm going to say.

[670] What's the spelling?

[671] Z -A -H -A -U.

[672] Yeah, Zahau, I'd say.

[673] Rebecca Zahow.

[674] And it's also called the Coronado House Murder.

[675] Have you heard of this one?

[676] No. Okay, I'm going to start from the very beginning.

[677] I'm going to start from the house murder.

[678] Yeah, this one's fucked up.

[679] This one I've, I think I followed it as it was happening because this is what happens first.

[680] The morning of July 11th, 2001, six -year -old Max Schacknow's, next shack now six years old, takes a fatal fall from the staircase vanister in his historic San Diego, mansion called Spreckles Beach House in Coronado, California, in San Diego.

[681] His father is a pharmaceutical CEO named Jonah Shacknow.

[682] And the 911 call comes in from Jonah's 32 -year -old living girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau.

[683] 32 -year -old, Burmese, she's a living.

[684] She lives there.

[685] She calls 911 to say that Max was running down the hallway above the lobby -like entrance to the house when he went over the banister.

[686] He suffered spinal cord injuries and head trauma and was in a coma.

[687] Ultimately, he dies 10 days later from swelling in cardiac arrest.

[688] And the medical examiner determined that the cause of death was accidental.

[689] And if you go online, there was actually this like drawing of how he must have fallen.

[690] And it's like, it's, you know, like a mansion spiral staircase, fucking lots of, you know, marble and wood.

[691] and he went over the side.

[692] Yeah.

[693] I don't buy it.

[694] Accidental.

[695] Okay.

[696] Well, here's, so while he's in a coma, Rebecca goes to pick up Shacknow's brother Adam at the airport who's there to, like, you know, sit by his nephew's bedside.

[697] He flies in from Memphis.

[698] And Adam, who's the CEO's brother, is staying in the house, in the back house while he's there.

[699] And that night, there was reports of really loud music coming from the house that night.

[700] And while Jonah, the father, is supposedly keeping a vigil at Max's bedside with Max's mom, Dina, Romano, and her sister, Nina, Dina and Nina, Adam is staying at the house.

[701] And Rebecca is as well.

[702] Okay, cut to the next morning.

[703] Intention.

[704] Yeah.

[705] So the next morning at like 6 a .m., 6 .45 a .m. Adam finds Rebecca's body.

[706] She's nude, hanging by her neck from an outside.

[707] outdoor back balcony.

[708] Her wrists and ankles are bound.

[709] And she has a, she's gagged with a blue long -sleeved t -shirt wrapped around her head with the sleeves, double -knotted and stuffed into her mouth.

[710] There's like a residue on her, on her legs that looks to be like tape residue.

[711] And she's bound, she's hanging by her neck.

[712] And her, let's see, on the bedroom door, where she had jumped.

[713] doubt of, supposedly, because here's the thing, the coroner ruled us a fucking suicide.

[714] What?

[715] Yeah, that's, this is the, this is the thing, like this is the murder.

[716] I really think that Max it was accidental, and then...

[717] This was vengeance?

[718] This might have been vengeance.

[719] A suicide.

[720] And on the, on the bedroom door, someone had written in black paint, she saved him, you can save her, or can you save her?

[721] She saved him can you save her?

[722] What does that mean?

[723] Nobody knows.

[724] There were four instances of head trauma, but ultimately she died from hanging.

[725] So he deemed it a suicide and in addressing the blood on her legs, because there was also blood on her legs, the forensic pathologists identified the cause as either a menstrual period or a intrauterine device, which is like the most insulting.

[726] But that's also, yeah.

[727] I mean, what are the odds?

[728] Yeah, right.

[729] Although, you know, if it's a really bad period, you might just want to kill yourself.

[730] Sorry.

[731] Serable.

[732] Yeah, or if you're raped.

[733] I'm like baffled right now.

[734] Yeah, this is a baffling case, which is why I love it so much.

[735] And I remember the kid, I remember the news reporter, the kid falling, and then two days later, this girl, this woman.

[736] So, Dr. Maurice Godwin, a private forensic consultant, told a reporter that Zahow's death had all the earmarks of of our quote, ritualistic killing and that the suicide had been staged.

[737] Duh, she's fucking bound and gagged.

[738] In Dr. Godwin's opinion, someone had dazed Zaha with a blow to the head and then tossed her off the balcony.

[739] So, and of course, remember I said that they had heard loud, the neighbors had heard loud music coming from the house that night.

[740] So maybe covering up screams, screams, which the neighbor also heard.

[741] Oh, really?

[742] Yeah.

[743] So that night, the night that she died, at 10 .48 p .m., The Howe received a text message from Nina Romano, the sister of the mother of Max.

[744] And Nina stated that she wanted to stop by the house and speak with the Howe about Max's accident.

[745] And Dehahue didn't reply to that message.

[746] But police said that she checked her voicemail a few hours later and listened to a message deleted it or it got deleted somehow.

[747] And we have no idea what was on that message.

[748] So according...

[749] Of all the things they can do, why can't they find deleted messages?

[750] It seems like a simple...

[751] You can find a deleted...

[752] Right.

[753] This is like the making of a murderer thing.

[754] Yeah.

[755] That drives me crazy.

[756] Okay.

[757] Which part?

[758] Like, why didn't they find out what was on?

[759] And those kids deleted the brother and the ex -boyfriend deleted.

[760] They broke into her voicemail and then deleted stuff.

[761] And they're like, oh, well, I guess it's gone forever.

[762] Where it's like, how is that possible?

[763] It's impossible.

[764] Especially if someone is missing, you're not going to, everything could be a clue.

[765] Why would, you know, to find this, you're missing loved one unless you know what's going on and you deleted it on purpose.

[766] Right.

[767] Yeah.

[768] Totally.

[769] But everyone's not.

[770] a true crime fanatic like we are those, too.

[771] So according to a, you know, forensic analysis, the expert, he determined or a forensic expert, the note what was written on the door was written by a right -handed male, and based on how high the door was, the person was probably six feet tall.

[772] Rebecca was only 5 '3, 5 '3, and Adam, the brother, was the only man in the mansion at the time of Rebecca's death.

[773] And how is he?

[774] Probably six feet tall.

[775] Oh, shit.

[776] You know.

[777] So according to the Generation Y podcast, which they did this on the subject, he had also spent the night, you know, in that back house, specifically looking at Asian bondage porn on his phone, which he had admitted to.

[778] Oh, no. Yeah.

[779] And she was Burmese.

[780] Yeah.

[781] Beautiful, by the way.

[782] I'm sure.

[783] I mean, it goes without saying, but gorgeous woman.

[784] So here's some stuff from Reddit.

[785] So Zahahou family is suing over a wrongful death.

[786] because that's the official report like she committed she committed to the end they've tried to reopen it and have them put a different both both deaths they have tried to get a different cause of death like ruling yeah yeah and neither of them have it's happened okay so they're suing over wrongful death and so here's some of the stuff from the lawsuit the clothes she'd been wearing before being stripped and killed were never found which is like if you're going to kill yourself And why would you strip naked to kill yourself?

[787] That's for real.

[788] And then hang yourself in view of your neighbors, which there's photos.

[789] You can see photos of her body on the front lawn after this guy Adam supposedly cut her down before he called 911.

[790] Oh, no. Why would you fucking do that?

[791] Also, why would you bind your own legs and arms before you hang yourself?

[792] Yeah.

[793] Well, they said that it's been done before.

[794] It's not out of the question.

[795] They had a reenactment to see if that's something they could do.

[796] And technically, yeah, you can do it.

[797] It can be done.

[798] They had a woman bind herself, do all of these things, and hang herself.

[799] But why the, you know, it doesn't make any fucking sense.

[800] Unless she was like into that specific kind of bondage and this was some kind of like, here's my thing and now I'm on my way out.

[801] Well, maybe it was, I mean, maybe it's like, here's my thing and it was accidental.

[802] Maybe she was trying to set up her ex, her boyfriend or the brother.

[803] But why would she kill herself?

[804] Because ultimately she's in question for this child's death.

[805] Right.

[806] So why would she be suddenly trying to set other people up from murder?

[807] Totally.

[808] Doesn't she have hideous guilt?

[809] A six -year -old died.

[810] Yeah.

[811] And she was supposed to be watching him for sure.

[812] So she probably does feel a lot of guilt over it.

[813] And it sounds like the mom and the sister were kind of crazy and like hounding her about it.

[814] Yeah, I'm sure.

[815] No one believed it was an accident.

[816] But then, so then you strip down bind yourself.

[817] So then you take a handful of pills and you're dead.

[818] Yeah.

[819] You know?

[820] Yeah.

[821] And also I feel like she was also a Christian, which doesn't mean that she wouldn't kill herself, but it also, there's some sort of shame there that you wouldn't be naked in front of everyone.

[822] I feel like there's kind of a bit of a, what's the word?

[823] Well.

[824] You know, not being a naked person.

[825] You mean like body shame or like, no, just being demure, a little more demure.

[826] Oh, yes.

[827] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[828] Okay.

[829] Well, because then it makes it about a whole different thing.

[830] It's perverted all of a sudden.

[831] Yeah, if you're killing yourself because you're so sorry, then you wouldn't be naked and bound in a sexual manner.

[832] And there's so there's four blunt force wounds to her head, which they argued on her way down she hit her head on the wall, which is like in post -mortem?

[833] No, like right as she's dying, as she's hanging herself.

[834] Her body flings into the wall four times and hard enough to give her blunt force from.

[835] that's not going to happen.

[836] So the ties that bound her were nautical ties and Adam, the brother in the lawsuit it says he's referred to as being a sailor.

[837] This is all from Reddit, so I didn't read this from directly from the case.

[838] And the ties binding her had the same paint from the message on the door, as did her nipples.

[839] Oh.

[840] The black paint.

[841] Okay.

[842] So the other thing is if she had to jump out of the window with her full force, the bed that she had tied the rope to should have moved and it didn't move enough, which means either someone was sitting on the bed, holding it in place, someone moved the bed back to where it should have been.

[843] For some reason, if she had actually jumped, it would have been heavier.

[844] She had mud on her feet, but there were no footprints on the balcony.

[845] Why did she have mud on her feet?

[846] That means she was outside and the back house running barefoot right but no fucking so someone clearly picked her up and threw over the side of the balcony if there was no footprints on the balcony and then there was a computer in her room that was used after 3 a .m. which was later than the time she would have already been dead and no determination was ever made as to who accessed it so a lot of people are saying that this is like you know a wealthy man they want to bury this they don't want to bring this to trial.

[847] The cops are corrupt.

[848] It's a really wealthy neighborhood in San Diego.

[849] They determine that her death is a suicide.

[850] And they're like, now this is done.

[851] And yeah.

[852] And not only that, but they keep going.

[853] Like, when there's questions about how on earth could this have happened, why would this have happened?

[854] Instead of saying, like, well, we need to look into that more because that doesn't make any sense as to a suicide.

[855] They like give insane excuses as to like, you know, well, people have killed themselves that way in the past or see, like, the woman was able to do it in a recreation.

[856] So it must be how it happened.

[857] And, you know, no DNA means, and if she was hit over the head, she maybe was stunted and there's no DNA because there was no fighting between them.

[858] She never, there's no defensive wounds because she was immediately rendered unconscious.

[859] Yeah.

[860] And then tied up.

[861] And then tie the fuck up.

[862] Also, how do you bind yourself?

[863] So say, let's go with that.

[864] Yeah.

[865] She bound herself crazily before she threw herself over.

[866] So then your legs and arms are bound and then you still have to jump and get over the belt or whatever that thing is that she went over and but then paints a thing if the paint is on her yeah when she's bound and on the ropes and on her nipples then she must have done that after she painted the message right bound painted a message at five foot three that's up really high that's not really a suicide note no no that no one really can understand what it means So they're saying that people have bound themselves like that in the past when they commit suicide.

[867] But I can't remember what I was going to say.

[868] First of all, how many?

[869] Yeah.

[870] Right.

[871] That's crazy.

[872] One person who was probably very interested in that kind of bonded.

[873] Yeah.

[874] Or it was like a sexual thing gone wrong.

[875] Yeah.

[876] Or gave them, yeah.

[877] Yeah.

[878] something, they were connected in some way.

[879] Isn't that insane?

[880] And that's just, that's it.

[881] Yeah, and that was two days after the kid went over the railing.

[882] Well, also, the kid going over the railing, like, in just picturing it in my mind, knowing nothing about the actual setup, when you're six, how tall are you?

[883] Yeah.

[884] Tall at the most.

[885] And if, I mean...

[886] So you're not buying it.

[887] They say, like, well, he must have tripped.

[888] That is shady, too.

[889] And they're saying that later one of the coroner said that he...

[890] it looked like he had been not choked, but that someone had maybe tried to stifle his mouth so he wasn't yelling or something like that.

[891] So there could be total foul play going on there too.

[892] Yeah.

[893] That makes the most sense to me. It's like some kind of killing of that child, whether it was accidental or not or whatever, and then they come back like 10 times harder of like, you did this.

[894] Yeah.

[895] So even if that wasn't true that it was accidental, they still would come back that way.

[896] and they would believe it.

[897] Because this is the new, young, pretty girlfriend that this kid is living with dies under her fucking supervision.

[898] And so, of course, they're pissed and going to come after her.

[899] Yes, she's the ultimate villain.

[900] Also, she had to go get, like, in that, before she was murdered, after the kids in the hospital, the brother comes into town and she's the one that's got to go pick him up.

[901] She goes and gets him, and then they go have dinner.

[902] which I want to be like, who the fuck is having dinner when this kid's in the hospital?

[903] But then, I mean, it's true.

[904] Who the fuck is having dinner?

[905] I want to know where they had dinner.

[906] But I've been at a bedside of someone dying and you're like, you have to eat so you all go sit at this place and have a quiet, uncomfortable, sad dinner.

[907] Like that's, that happens.

[908] It does happen.

[909] It's not like they went to fucking chilies.

[910] Like, who knows?

[911] But if you, I just think if I was, if there, I was babysitting a kid, a six -year -old who then basically died under my care.

[912] I'm not driving to the airport.

[913] Most people won't drive to the airport anyway.

[914] Yeah.

[915] Like, I'm not driving to the airport.

[916] I'm not going out to dinner.

[917] No. Like, I would probably be on so many pills I would be in bed permanently.

[918] Yeah, me too.

[919] I mean, you're not wanted at the hospital because the mother is there and she fucking hates your guts.

[920] And the family hates your guts, probably anyway.

[921] Take a fucking cab from the airport.

[922] Take a cab or some other relative.

[923] Oh, you know what?

[924] I'm sorry.

[925] Her sister was in town at that moment.

[926] And so she had to take her sister to the airport.

[927] which still take a cab to the fucking airport.

[928] Why is she running errands for people?

[929] She must be in, like, okay, say she's a sociopath and she killed a child.

[930] Yeah.

[931] That's the only thing that makes sense to me to be like, sure, I'll be there at eight to pick you up.

[932] Or she's in shock and she's doing everything she can to be helpful because she just is like, let me do what I can.

[933] Yeah, I guess so.

[934] Maybe not.

[935] I know.

[936] Yeah.

[937] So it's just baffling and it's really frustrating that nobody seems to want to test.

[938] for anything.

[939] Well, and if it's like pharmaceutical money, that's like the most money, right?

[940] That's all.

[941] CEO of a pharmaceutical company, that's all of the money in the world.

[942] That's all the money.

[943] And then he's like basically going around, it's a Coronado.

[944] Yeah.

[945] Crazy rich part of San Diego, is that right?

[946] So then it's just like, those people already know those people.

[947] He probably gives to the community to begin with.

[948] So they're just like, I've had a tragedy.

[949] Now she killed herself.

[950] Can we let just lay off?

[951] all this to rest is probably the storyline, right?

[952] Yeah.

[953] Like, no one's going to come back.

[954] This is a tragedy all around.

[955] Let's just let it rest.

[956] And her poor, like, is she like a first generation for me?

[957] Yeah.

[958] So her poor parents are just like, can we get a little something?

[959] Yeah.

[960] And everyone's saying, you know, the family is saying, that's not her handwriting.

[961] She was not suicidal.

[962] Her sister spoke to her that evening, not suicidal at all.

[963] Everyone's saying she wasn't suicidal.

[964] Oh, that is.

[965] Sinister.

[966] Yeah.

[967] And even her ex -husband, who you would think would hate her because she actually cheated on him with her new boyfriend is like trying to figure out what's happened to her.

[968] He's not even like vengeful in any way.

[969] I know.

[970] I want to know more about that brother.

[971] Like what's his deal?

[972] Yeah.

[973] No, there's no information about what he does for a living who he is.

[974] He's from, I believe, Memphis.

[975] Yeah, he's from Memphis.

[976] And it's kind of like, I think we all know people of like the type of person who has an insanely rich older brother.

[977] Yeah.

[978] Oh yeah.

[979] That's basically like, well, now I get to do what I want.

[980] Yeah, totally.

[981] Maybe for all of my life.

[982] He cut her down at 6 .48 a .m. and then sent a text message to his brother to inform him over the news.

[983] I would love to read that text message.

[984] Yeah.

[985] Your girlfriend's dead.

[986] What do you text someone to say your wife is dead?

[987] Or call.

[988] You call.

[989] You call it minimum, if not drive down to the hospital.

[990] What is happening?

[991] This brother is sinister.

[992] I'm curious about the dad, the boyfriend, if he had any.

[993] to do with it.

[994] Apparently he was sleeping at the Ronald McDonald house that night because he was, you know, by his kid's bedside the whole time, needed to sleep a little bit, which is what the Ronald McDonald house is for.

[995] And so he wasn't even near the house.

[996] And then the ex -wife was also at the hospital?

[997] Her sister was at the house?

[998] The wife, ex -wife was at the hospital with the sister.

[999] There's, you know, the speculation is that they came over banging on the door, let in.

[1000] Rebecca wouldn't let them in.

[1001] The message that was deleted might have been from Jonah saying let them in.

[1002] That was deleted.

[1003] Right.

[1004] So if they had that message saying let them in, then they have proof that the women were there.

[1005] But there's no proof that they were there.

[1006] I know.

[1007] How fucking crazy is it?

[1008] Well, there's no proof that they're there, but no one's looked for proof.

[1009] Right.

[1010] Right.

[1011] Right.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] Looked to prove a suicide.

[1014] It sounds to me like there's no proof that the women were involved.

[1015] It just, it sounds correct, I think that this guy, the brother, is clearly, is either, was it sexually motivated, had nothing to do with Max?

[1016] And maybe she rebuffed his advances, and he got angry and killed her.

[1017] Man. And made it look like it was revenge.

[1018] There's a lot of motives there.

[1019] There's a lot of motives there.

[1020] And none of them are being explored.

[1021] No. And then, you know, it's one of those things where, like, in your head, it's like, oh, she was so pretty and they were rich and blah, blah, blah.

[1022] And then you look at the photos and this kid is like a sweet little kid, this photo of this kid, Max, who dies.

[1023] Yeah, it's like the same thing with John Bonnet, when you're like, she was a beauty.

[1024] You see all these beauty pageant photos and then you see a photo of her like a normal person.

[1025] You're like, oh, I was such a young person.

[1026] It was a baby.

[1027] Well, and also when children die, people very justifiably go insane.

[1028] It makes sense.

[1029] Like any reaction, the idea that the cops aren't going, look, there's a massive loss here.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] The reaction off of this loss is understandable.

[1032] Not justified, not, you know, good or anything.

[1033] But going crazy.

[1034] It's very clear motive.

[1035] It's very logical motive.

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] And getting and hearing, which they hadn't even heard yet, it was accidental.

[1039] They hadn't been told that yet because that wasn't until after he died, that got ruled.

[1040] Those women and everyone else are probably like this woman is responsible.

[1041] How the fuck did this happen?

[1042] You should have been watching him.

[1043] She said she was in the bathroom when it happened.

[1044] She's like, you should be able to leave a six -year -old alone long enough for them not to do certain things.

[1045] They say like he tripped over the dog or he was on his riding a scooter.

[1046] Weird shit.

[1047] I don't know.

[1048] You don't buy that either.

[1049] And just I know I'm picturing it inaccurately because I don't know the truth.

[1050] I'm like, when you trip and fall you in your six, you're tripping what?

[1051] at the most two inches.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] You don't catch fucking air and go over the side of a rail.

[1054] Totally.

[1055] But if you're a little, you know, you're playing around in a way you shouldn't be and you're messing around and you're trying to climb over the railing even.

[1056] Yes.

[1057] Because you do stupid shit.

[1058] Did you forget your head caught between the banister, the railing?

[1059] I did.

[1060] It was the most terrified.

[1061] I still remember it.

[1062] I mean, yeah.

[1063] But then I go, how long was she in that bathroom that he's doing?

[1064] doing so much stuff like it could have been a minute but but when you're babysitting it makes me think of nora of course my niece who's now nine but i babysitter sat her a ton when it was just her and i and if you have to get up to go the bathroom you go you put the tv on and hypnotize them and just go stay right there'll be right back down touching you don't even close the bathroom door all the way no way yeah when i babysitting my nephew who's a six -year -old boy very rumbiker's a six -year -old boy i'm like mike are you good yes you get out there constantly call out to them.

[1065] But technically she wasn't babysitting him.

[1066] She was living with this person.

[1067] And I feel like when you're actually someone's guardian, it's not, you're not, you know, you and I are terrified of killing our siblings like child.

[1068] And don't understand that kids can be left alone a little bit more than we think they can.

[1069] Oh, that's true.

[1070] So, but then again, that's not, you know, who knows how long she was living with them.

[1071] But was it only the two of them in the house?

[1072] And her younger sister who was visiting.

[1073] Oh, right.

[1074] Okay.

[1075] I know.

[1076] That is.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] If you guys want to look up, if you look up the Coronado murder house, this fucking mansion is so ugly.

[1079] And you can see, it's blurred out, and I'm sure you can find one that's not, but her body on the lawn naked.

[1080] That's not, you know, that they took from the fucking helicopters.

[1081] That's an unfortunate porn search that he did that night if he's in a check.

[1082] How is that possible that she's found bound?

[1083] And he looked up, not even just bondage porn.

[1084] Asian.

[1085] Asian bondage porn.

[1086] That's not, yeah, that is quite a, that's too many things to be just a simple coincidence.

[1087] Totally.

[1088] Oh, man. And then who was on her computer after 3 a .m. Right.

[1089] After she's fucking hanging.

[1090] God damn it.

[1091] Can you imagine being a neighbor and waking up and saying that?

[1092] Oh, my God.

[1093] Fuck.

[1094] But he's the one that cut her down.

[1095] He's the one that found her.

[1096] So he quote, found her.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] In the morning?

[1099] 6 .30 in the morning.

[1100] What was time of death?

[1101] Do you know?

[1102] No. Like, was it supposed to be the night before?

[1103] I think it was supposed to be the night before.

[1104] But is your first instinct to cut someone down if they're clearly dead?

[1105] It's to run away and call 911.

[1106] It's to call 911 in a panic.

[1107] Not run upstairs.

[1108] Get a knife or whatever and cut a rope down.

[1109] So this person who's, you could tell when someone's dead and not dead.

[1110] Yes.

[1111] Then falls to the ground.

[1112] Especially if she's, if you, let's say he has something to do with it and she's bound, your first instinct is this is not a suicide.

[1113] this is a murder.

[1114] Why would you then cut them down?

[1115] Right.

[1116] Why would you, we, everybody knows that you don't contaminate a crime.

[1117] Even if you're not like us who are obsessed with this shit, you know not to fucking get your finger.

[1118] It's law and order 101.

[1119] Oh, and then there was also a knife in the room that supposedly he cut her down with, no fingerprints on it.

[1120] Why are there no fucking fingerprints on that?

[1121] This is all this very specific stuff I have to say is from Reddit, supposedly from the the reports of the family suing the shack nows for the murder wrongful death.

[1122] So this could be bullshit.

[1123] Well, what's interesting is like when I did the looking up all that stuff on the Elisa Lam thing from Cecil Hotel last week, it's most of the information people get ends up being from those wrongful death cases.

[1124] Yeah.

[1125] Because that's when they release the information and you get it in court records.

[1126] Right, the files are open.

[1127] Because when it's a regular police case, you can't get that information.

[1128] And yet, isn't it fucking, this is a thing that's insane to me. That's nothing to do with any of this.

[1129] The fact that 911 calls are a public record is absolute bananas to me. So you can't get all this information, but you can hear a 911 call just whenever you fucking want.

[1130] Yeah.

[1131] Those should be so private.

[1132] I can't even stand it.

[1133] Those things bum me out so bad.

[1134] I know, you can't stand them.

[1135] I hate them.

[1136] I don't think anyone.

[1137] There's one where a woman gets killed, like, on the phone.

[1138] No. Nope.

[1139] There's a whole episode of last podcast on the left where they just do 9 -1 -1 calls.

[1140] Oh, I skipped that one.

[1141] I know.

[1142] I was like...

[1143] I listened to every fucking episode I like, I wait for new episodes.

[1144] But that one...

[1145] Yeah.

[1146] That one I was like, I listened with my finger hovering over the stop button because I was like, I know.

[1147] And I never finished it.

[1148] Because here's the other...

[1149] A couple times on like 2020 or like Dateline or whatever.

[1150] The ones that bum me out the most...

[1151] Most are those fucking doctors that kill their wives and call 911 pretending to be upset.

[1152] And it's fake and it's so obvious.

[1153] It's like if you've taken one acting class, you're like, sir, I'm believing nothing of this right now.

[1154] And they think they're so smart.

[1155] They think they are fooling everybody.

[1156] You know what we should do?

[1157] I just thought of how fucking cool this would be.

[1158] Make a fake 911.

[1159] Just do just do praying calls to 911 for the entire show.

[1160] And then get arrested.

[1161] And then have the knock at the door of us getting rest.

[1162] No, I wonder.

[1163] Okay, this would be ridiculous, but if we played, let's say we played, we had Dustin pick out 10, 911 calls.

[1164] Five of them were real.

[1165] The person actually had not killed the person.

[1166] Five of them were like later found out that they, the person killed the person.

[1167] And then we'd take a test.

[1168] No, we have to guess.

[1169] Why do we have to do 10?

[1170] That's so many.

[1171] Four.

[1172] Okay.

[1173] How about one of them is fake?

[1174] Let's do three.

[1175] Okay.

[1176] I honestly feel like I could do it right now and pass the test.

[1177] I feel like I'm bartering with you.

[1178] Okay, three.

[1179] We'll just do three.

[1180] And one will be fake.

[1181] One will be fake.

[1182] But then we have to listen to two real.

[1183] Okay.

[1184] Two will be fake and one will be real.

[1185] I think it's because, and I don't know if I've ever talked about this on this, my favorite all -time show is I survived.

[1186] Oh, I don't want to see survivors.

[1187] So let's talk about this.

[1188] That's, okay, the reason I love it is because it's all the, because it's instead of the thing I'm interested in zero killing all the crazy shit, which I want distance from and no relation to, and no personal understanding.

[1189] And I survived, it's people that go through all that shit and are sitting.

[1190] And most of the, it's like literally 90 % women.

[1191] The men are always there because they're like, I survived a hike that went wrong.

[1192] It's like, fuck you.

[1193] It's always a guy that's like had his own yacht.

[1194] And they's like, I can't believe that.

[1195] And the storm came.

[1196] Like, don't go on a fucking yacht then.

[1197] And then there's four women who are like, just this guy came up behind me. Humans are bigger than I. Most male humans are bigger than I am and can hurt me in broad daylight.

[1198] And so unfortunately, I had a job.

[1199] Right.

[1200] And then this man decided I would die for that.

[1201] Yep.

[1202] But that's why I don't like it.

[1203] Because do you know the show, cold case?

[1204] What's the one with the two women who, God, my memory is awful?

[1205] Is it a real show or is it like a fictional?

[1206] It's a real show.

[1207] Where they're trying to solve cold cases.

[1208] Cold cases, yeah.

[1209] And it's, is it relatively new?

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] I've never watched it.

[1212] Okay.

[1213] It's called Cold Justice.

[1214] Cold Justice.

[1215] And these two badass women.

[1216] And one is a prosecutor.

[1217] Oh, okay.

[1218] And one is a crime to an investigator.

[1219] And they go to these, like, fucking tiny towns that have no money for, you know, for detectives and people to look up what's going on and try to solve a cold case.

[1220] That's cool.

[1221] Oh, it's incredible.

[1222] And it's, like, so feminist.

[1223] I love it.

[1224] Because these chicks are badass.

[1225] So they started one called cold, cold justice.

[1226] And then, but it's like, it's only rapes and sexual assaults.

[1227] So these women are survived, and it's just so depressing because their interviews make me hurt.

[1228] But you don't have to get an interview from the person who's dead.

[1229] Right.

[1230] So I just, yeah, I don't like it.

[1231] Yeah, that's very true.

[1232] Well, yeah, it's the, I think a key to having this interest is distance.

[1233] Yeah.

[1234] It's too much to be involved in, like, the victim's lives.

[1235] But, and that's normally how I feel, but I survived is produced so well.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] Because you don't want to watch a person who survived and can't tell their own story because they're still so fucked up.

[1238] Yeah, that's this show.

[1239] That is too much to take on.

[1240] We all have enough problems.

[1241] It's also nice, too, when you're like, when you know that the case has been solved and they've caught the guy and he's in prison, because they're still trying to find the guy who raped them.

[1242] That's too much, yeah, like the stress in their life.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] On, I survived, it's all women who most of the time at the very end, they're like, and then I started the victim's counseling center.

[1245] Yes.

[1246] There are all these amazing women that like take it, turn it around.

[1247] There's one girl that like was kidnapped when she was 16 by this crazy serial killer somehow survived, whatever, and she's a cop.

[1248] Fuck, yeah.

[1249] It's the, everything becomes really amazing and inspirational of, like, how you can, the worst thing in your life can become, like, you're basically your destiny.

[1250] Does it make you think, too, that you're more equipped to survive something that, like, that happens to you because you're, you're never going to be like, well, everyone dies from this.

[1251] You're going to be like, remember that girl?

[1252] She fought this guy and she won, and here's how to.

[1253] Oh, yeah, and once you know, that's a fact, a true fact.

[1254] That can happen.

[1255] Yes.

[1256] And also they all talk about you do whatever it takes to survive.

[1257] So if you have to play dead, if you have to, you know, like they justify not justify, but they are like explain like the things that a lot of survivors feel guilty about, which is like, you know, then I got raped for the fourth time.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] And I didn't fight or something.

[1260] Right.

[1261] Where it's like, no, you don't fight because he would have just slashed your throat.

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] There's a thing.

[1264] I always, like, this is my big thing.

[1265] It's like just even if you get stabbed, don't get in the truck.

[1266] Don't get in the car.

[1267] Don't get in the car.

[1268] don't go somewhere with the person.

[1269] That's like the big thing is like you're better off getting shot on the street than not getting shot and getting in the car of the person who's trying to like do whatever you fucking can even if it's getting stabbed and not get in the car.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] Because as soon as you're in their possession, you're fucked.

[1272] Yes.

[1273] It's a good thing to know in your head.

[1274] Right.

[1275] But in the situation comes up, who the fuck knows?

[1276] Yeah, I'm not going to.

[1277] It's so crazy.

[1278] Because also you go into shock.

[1279] I mean, there's all of those people that tell the story where you're just kind of like, it all is so surreal that you feel like you're dreaming.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] How could this actually be happening?

[1282] Allie has this crazy story that she was just walking down the street in like Larchmont, which is like a nice fucking neighborhood during the day.

[1283] This car pulls up.

[1284] These two like gangster dudes get out with fucking kitchen knives, big old chef's knives and are like, give us your money.

[1285] And she takes her purse like a football, throws it in the opposite direction, like to the side, and then runs back the way she was going, which is like, that's genius.

[1286] The thought that you could even do that while you're, getting held up and like understand that if you throw your purse off to the side they're going to go after the purse, not you.

[1287] Yes.

[1288] Genius.

[1289] How did she know to do that?

[1290] She said it was just instinct.

[1291] Fucking crazy.

[1292] Well, her dad was also a crime reporter when she was a kid.

[1293] So that's something like that has happened if she's talking about it.

[1294] He's probably like been like, oh and by the bye.

[1295] Now that we're sitting here at breakfast.

[1296] Should you ever?

[1297] Yeah.

[1298] That's amazing.

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] The closest that I can even slightly think of like anything like this that's happened to me is I was walking down LaBreo one time.

[1301] And there's a bank that had a weird like inside parking lot where you drove in under like a little bank overpass.

[1302] And then there was just like an interior parking lot.

[1303] Creepy.

[1304] Saturday afternoon.

[1305] And like the bank was closed.

[1306] And as I was walking by here like, hey, excuse me. Excuse me. Hey.

[1307] And there's a guy sitting in like a station wagon.

[1308] He's like, pardon me. Can I just ask you a quick question?

[1309] And I'm walking by and I just started laughing.

[1310] I was like, uh, no, and I, like, was still walking.

[1311] He's like, ma 'am, I just need to ask you this question.

[1312] Like, I'm supposed to walk in this thing.

[1313] Yes, sir?

[1314] And then, yeah, I just was like, hurried it up.

[1315] And then he's like, man, people are so untrusting.

[1316] It's like, why the fuck aren't you out here on the sidewalk if you have such a pressing question?

[1317] Yeah, and you saying untrusting means you're clearly untrustworthy.

[1318] Why would I trust you?

[1319] Yes.

[1320] Why are you bringing that up at all?

[1321] And also what kind of idiot has to go.

[1322] I mean, that's a terrible thing to say.

[1323] but it was so overtly dangerous.

[1324] It's because we're bitches and we don't have to be fucking polite to other people.

[1325] Yes.

[1326] Which is like such a gift.

[1327] That's right.

[1328] I was raised by a bitch who was like would to a person's face be like why don't you get back the fuck up right now?

[1329] My mom too.

[1330] My mom got someone copped afiel in my mom in broad daylight when she was a kid and she told me about it when I was a fucking kid which probably shouldn't have.

[1331] So like I've always been fucking terrified of strangers.

[1332] Yeah.

[1333] That happened, too.

[1334] Yeah, great.

[1335] That happened to me too.

[1336] Like a few years ago, I was leaving a bar and some guy kind of seemed like he was following me and I was like getting into my car and he was like, hey, hey.

[1337] And like running towards me and I get in my car and in front of him and lock the door.

[1338] And he was like, never mind and like walked away.

[1339] And he was like clearly a creep.

[1340] He wasn't someone that was like a friend, you know?

[1341] Yeah, but like the tone.

[1342] I'm sure the tone of his voice was like, yes, what do you need?

[1343] Yeah.

[1344] What kind of fun experience will this be?

[1345] Right.

[1346] Also, that just made me think, sorry, now we're doing this.

[1347] I love it.

[1348] It just made me think of this.

[1349] When I was dumb and I think I was probably 21 or 22, I lived in San Francisco.

[1350] And we all went to see, my friend, Malava, lived with a band.

[1351] It was so hilarious in this Victorian house.

[1352] Amazing.

[1353] They were the coolest guys.

[1354] They were so nice.

[1355] And it was like a total, like, Dave Matthews -S -style band.

[1356] And they were playing at a bar nearby.

[1357] So we, me and her.

[1358] and my other friend all went to watch the band in this little bar.

[1359] We all got drunk.

[1360] What bar?

[1361] It was, um, I think it was the King's Head.

[1362] Mm -hmm.

[1363] Oh, the pub.

[1364] Yes.

[1365] Next door is the best sausages I've ever had in my life.

[1366] Really?

[1367] Wait, I think that's it.

[1368] Yeah.

[1369] No, that's tornado.

[1370] Yeah, no, I'm thinking of something else, but I know the King's Head.

[1371] Okay.

[1372] Um, so it was like, it just felt like a regular night going out like we had done a million times.

[1373] And we were all dancing on the dance floor and having a great time.

[1374] And this guy came up and he was really cute.

[1375] He looked, on first impression, he looked like he had just gotten out of the army to me. He was very clean cut and kind of intense, but he came and started dancing next to me and talking to me. Like almost like you, your friends or like you must have friends in common or something.

[1376] Like he knows who you are.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] And also, but it was like the feel of it.

[1379] It was like almost like a jam band like, we're all here together.

[1380] And so he was like, hey, blah, blah.

[1381] And I'm like, what?

[1382] And he's like, hey, let's dance together.

[1383] And I was like, yeah, like we already were.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] We all were dancing.

[1386] Everyone was dancing.

[1387] And then he goes, he goes, let's go over here.

[1388] And I go, no. And I looked around, my friends were nowhere near me. I didn't realize it because I was drunk.

[1389] Yeah.

[1390] But they weren't nearby.

[1391] And I was like, no. And then he grabbed both of my hands at the same time by the wrists.

[1392] No. And he goes, let's go over here and was pulling me toward the fucking door.

[1393] No. And the guy, this guy, Dave, who was the greatest, was the manager of the band.

[1394] and he also lived in the house with everybody.

[1395] And out of nowhere, Dave fucking shows up, grabs the guy by the shirt, and just pulls him away and the guy got kicked out by security.

[1396] Thank fucking God.

[1397] Dave was watching the entire time.

[1398] Do you know that happened over the weekend and Jesse Pop fucking kick this guy out of a bar?

[1399] What?

[1400] I just remember.

[1401] Yes.

[1402] Sorry.

[1403] Justin, is this going way too long?

[1404] Is this okay?

[1405] Okay.

[1406] There was this fucking guy in a bar.

[1407] we get to the drawing room which is like this dive bar everyone loves like the bartender knows us it's the best and I'm getting drinks and this guy next to me is like being friendly and I'm being friendly back because everyone there is a regular and then he suddenly turns and says something about Vince my husband that's rude and so I just stop paying attention to him and I think he said something shitty and Vince was like want to fight him kind of which Vince doesn't do and then so Ali and I are talking to a friend and the guy who's like drunk as fuck comes over and starts talking to us.

[1408] And Jesse Pop walks over and goes, this guy bothering you?

[1409] And I go, yeah, actually, he is.

[1410] And he goes, all right, Bub, come on.

[1411] Leave the ladies alone.

[1412] You got to get out of here.

[1413] And the guy was, like, kind of pissed and, like, yelling at him.

[1414] And then the bartender came over and kicked him out.

[1415] But it was straight up, this guy bothering you?

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] Okay.

[1418] Are my cheeks red right now?

[1419] Yes.

[1420] That's my favorite thing I've ever heard.

[1421] It was amazing.

[1422] That is.

[1423] Dustin was there.

[1424] The best.

[1425] Yeah.

[1426] Oh, my God.

[1427] You know what?

[1428] Fuck, you had a tall guys to take the, take care of business.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] Short guys too.

[1431] Well, yes, Any guys actually.

[1432] Fuck yada guys that step up, pay attention because things like that, especially, it's like you can't even drink as a woman.

[1433] So I was going to say, it's like you can't have two drinks.

[1434] Yeah.

[1435] Because you're inebriated.

[1436] And suddenly you're kind of like, yeah, I want to hang out and teach people and give people a chance.

[1437] And literally like the, my story, the turn happens so quickly.

[1438] I remember in my head thinking, you fucking idiot.

[1439] Not enough time to react.

[1440] No time to react And like he had me Overpowered you If that guy wasn't paying attention I would have been out the side door No one would have seen me go No It was the perfect scenario I wonder if you'd recognize him He had to have gone on To fucking be a rapist at least I don't know I don't know I mean Isn't that he could have Got on to do that And you wouldn't know Yeah That you how you escaped that Same person Well also think that Later on we all got on the bus together.

[1441] It's such a dumb, like, part of my life where we were like, we lived with a band.

[1442] I mean, like, she did, but then I was.

[1443] No, it's adorable.

[1444] It's what you do in your 20s.

[1445] Yeah, exactly.

[1446] But, like, they all knew it happened.

[1447] And I felt I was ashamed.

[1448] Like, it was me. But they were like, hey, are you okay?

[1449] And, like, they were all kind of checking in where I was like, I wanted to be a city girl.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] And there's that problem, too.

[1452] When you want to be a tough city girl that knows her shit and parties and this and that.

[1453] Or you're one of the guys.

[1454] And then suddenly this person doesn't.

[1455] this thing to show that you are just a fucking girl who can pretty much be overpowered by the smallest guy in the group.

[1456] Yeah, and you're just kind of a dumb weekly.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] Didn't.

[1459] Yeah, I think that we like to be tough and then someone proves that you're not.

[1460] Or like when you want to be tough and then someone makes you cry and you're so pissed off at yourself for crying because it makes you look like a pussy.

[1461] Yeah.

[1462] That's so annoying.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] Oh, man. Hey.

[1465] Come on.

[1466] I love how on the show we're just so like, everything is the worst and fuck everything and you got to be on your guard maybe you know maybe we'll save someone's life yes exactly and also just you got to be a survivor yeah that's the point listen have a buddy don't ever be alone at a bar no man don't leave your drink alone yeah if you're get drunk which hell yeah go for it yeah but you have to have maybe either either one sober friend yeah a friend that drinks slower than you yeah or just someone that's got their eye out Yeah.

[1467] And don't leave the bar to go home with someone and leave your girlfriend behind.

[1468] Don't fucking let your girlfriend leave you behind.

[1469] I mean, don't be stupid.

[1470] It's basically...

[1471] I know.

[1472] Oh, man. You look so worried right now.

[1473] You look like you're solving a...

[1474] You know, you know what it is?

[1475] I'm just thinking about the fact that I was a blackout drunk for 15 years of my life.

[1476] And for some reason, I'm fine.

[1477] They somehow survived.

[1478] I don't know how...

[1479] It's the thing that I think happens in every episode where we're like, how are we not dead?

[1480] I know what?

[1481] We're all okay.

[1482] We're so okay.

[1483] And hopefully this podcast will lower, like just on its merit alone will lower our percentage.

[1484] Like, because we've talked about it.

[1485] So the likelihood of it happening is less, right?

[1486] Is that a thing?

[1487] I've heard you say that now eight times because there's been eight episodes.

[1488] It's now like your magic mantra.

[1489] It is.

[1490] If you can imagine something happening, the likelihood decreases that it'll happen.

[1491] Well, because you're being, yeah.

[1492] You're running scenarios.

[1493] You're being smart.

[1494] You're being smart.

[1495] Are we going to listen to Vince's story?

[1496] Oh, yeah.

[1497] Okay.

[1498] So, we kind of have the, uh...

[1499] Said husband, Vince, left me. Has, I has had a murder story that he told me in the very beginning because he knows that I'm obsessed, even though he's not.

[1500] But then he told me this murder story and I was like, I tried not to react.

[1501] So, like, I was in love with it because I didn't want him to think I was a weirdo.

[1502] But it's really good.

[1503] It's a good one.

[1504] Vince Averro, ladies and gentlemen.

[1505] April.

[1506] April.

[1507] Oh, did I tell you that story that the DJ asked me how to pronounce his name?

[1508] He leaned over and he goes, wait, how do you pronounce his last name?

[1509] And I go, it's Avril.

[1510] And then I sat there for three seconds and it was like, he was about to say it.

[1511] And then I leaned over really quick and asked Matt or whoever was next to me that knew.

[1512] And then I'm like, April, April, April.

[1513] Did you?

[1514] Yeah, but then did you hear when he introduced us?

[1515] He was like, hard start.

[1516] And that was me. The pause in between.

[1517] I go, hard start really fast.

[1518] I was sitting directly next.

[1519] Thank you.

[1520] You're welcome.

[1521] Okay.

[1522] But I almost fucked up.

[1523] I love it.

[1524] It turned out okay.

[1525] I grew up in a small town outside Detroit, Michigan, and we had a central park in town.

[1526] And when I was like a freshman or sophomore in high school, a girl who was in my class was abducted out of the park and ultimately raped and murdered by a guy who was like a serial killer.

[1527] It turned out it had done it to a number of women.

[1528] And then a few years later, like the year after I graduate, there were two 12 year old girls who met these guys like a 20 to 30 year old in the park and had asked them to buy them alcohol so they could celebrate their 13th birthdays that were coming up so the guys told them to come back and meet them there that night and they would have the alcohol for them so when they these girls snuck out and came back and the guys got them drunk raped killed them pretty horrible stuff and And then they put the bodies in the river, in the drain.

[1529] And then shortly thereafter was like the summer festival that happened every year.

[1530] And during the festival, which was a lot of it taking place in Central Park, the girls' bodies were discovered.

[1531] They came up.

[1532] And I don't know.

[1533] Jesus, Vince.

[1534] So like, all the families are at the festival and the fucking bodies float up in the river.

[1535] Then they thought the girls were like runaways until then.

[1536] think.

[1537] Also, did you see my cat, like, as soon as Vince's voice came on, he ran over.

[1538] He was like, well, what the fuck?

[1539] Where's my treats?

[1540] Yeah, that's the fucked up.

[1541] Oh, my God.

[1542] I know.

[1543] 12.

[1544] Wait, no. The girls.

[1545] Girls were like, I think, 13 or 14.

[1546] No, no. No, they were 12.

[1547] Yeah, you're right.

[1548] They're celebrating their 13th birthday.

[1549] But I was a, I went to rehab when I was 13.

[1550] Like, they were probably bad kids, too.

[1551] I know.

[1552] You'd never know it from your wonderful dresses.

[1553] and your collections of wonderful things.

[1554] Thank you.

[1555] And your gorgeous spa water.

[1556] You're just served as delicious cucumber water like a fucking rich lady.

[1557] Oh, there's meth in it.

[1558] Oh.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] Yeah, that's fucked up.

[1561] That, like, those scenarios, I was in those scenarios, drinking booze with like 20 -something -year -olds.

[1562] Stay out of the park.

[1563] In a park at night.

[1564] Oh, yeah.

[1565] Just like, the only difference is I didn't get ready.

[1566] and murdered.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] Come on.

[1569] Congratulations.

[1570] Do you want to read a hometown murder?

[1571] Are you done?

[1572] Should we save it for next week?

[1573] Maybe we're emotionally.

[1574] I'm wrong out.

[1575] We're emotionally exhausted.

[1576] I love it.

[1577] This murder podcast has murdered us.

[1578] It's really going to get us to a new place.

[1579] Yeah.

[1580] I totally forgot about that thing that happened to me. Still just now.

[1581] I swear to go.

[1582] This is bringing up shit and we're probably in a talk.

[1583] need to talk to therapists about it.

[1584] Is there something positive we can talk about?

[1585] Did you ever...

[1586] I just snorted, like, snod in my nose, like a fucking third grader.

[1587] No, I love it.

[1588] You're sick.

[1589] It's okay.

[1590] No, they can go on to other podcasts for plastic shit.

[1591] That's true.

[1592] There's all kinds.

[1593] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1594] Want a cookie?

[1595] Okay.

[1596] That's...

[1597] There, that's a positive.

[1598] That's...

[1599] Okay.

[1600] Elvis?

[1601] Cookie?

[1602] Okay.

[1603] All right.

[1604] Well, thanks for listening, you guys.

[1605] I'm sorry if this is, but please tell us everything.

[1606] You can email us at My Favorite Murder at Gmail.

[1607] Please get onto the Facebook page, My Favorite Murder Group.

[1608] It's private so people won't be able to read your crazy shit that you write.

[1609] And it's like such a fun fucking group.

[1610] And then on Twitter, we're My Fave Murder.

[1611] Yeah.

[1612] Please follow us.

[1613] And then go on iTunes and rate, review, and subscribe.

[1614] Have you been reading our reviews?

[1615] I haven't.

[1616] We should see if we have any.

[1617] I did once, and I told the story of how I fixated on the two bad ones and didn't even pay attention to the hundreds of good ones.

[1618] That's how life is.

[1619] I know.

[1620] We shouldn't do that.

[1621] I'm going to shame us for doing that.

[1622] Yeah, thanks for, thanks.

[1623] We love you.

[1624] We love you.

[1625] Stay sexy.