Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard XX
[0] Hi, I'm David Ferrier, a Kiwi who accidentally got marooned in America, and I want to find out what makes this country tick.
[1] Since I've been here, I've discovered that Americans really love freedom.
[2] It's what they talk about all the time, and if an American sniffs even the slightest whiff of their freedoms being tampered with, it's game on.
[3] This freedom extends to everything, including people's homes.
[4] Because while in New Zealand, we generally like our houses to be fused to the ground, A large number of Americans love to have wheels on their house so they can drive it wherever they want.
[5] Every year we make it possible for thousands of Americans from all walks of life to make their travel dreams come true.
[6] Americans love RVs, recreational vehicles.
[7] An American pastime, in fact it's roaring back, perhaps right next to you, on the highway.
[8] The RV industry is worth $140 billion here in America.
[9] 58 ,000 brand new RVs were shipped out during a single month, last year.
[10] 11 .2 million homes have an RV of some kind, and around 10 million more are considering buying one within the next five years.
[11] With all that in mind, I want to find out why Americans are obsessed with RVs.
[12] So, get ready to take your toilet, bedroom, bathroom, bathroom, lounge, and entire family, basically everything, including the kitchen sink, on a giant road trip, because this is the RV episode.
[13] I'm a flyless bird touchdown in America.
[14] I'm a flyless bird touchdown in America.
[15] I mean, this is talk about having the perfect guest for this episode.
[16] Yeah, I mean, I should have just interviewed you for the entire documentary.
[17] I don't know why I went out and made one.
[18] This is like your life flat.
[19] I mean, the first thing I really saw when I ever came up here to the attic was your RV.
[20] Geryl Smith's spending the night at our house all the time.
[21] Here's where I'll hit you right now with a distinction.
[22] Okay.
[23] That is not an RV.
[24] Oh, what do you have?
[25] And I'm going to be an elitist right now.
[26] I'm going to expose myself as being a brat, but I got to tell you, that's a bus.
[27] All the people that own the bus I have, they love calling it a coach, which is triggering to me for my class warfare.
[28] No, that's interesting because I've been watching hacks.
[29] It's a comedy about this female comedian, and she's got a lot of money.
[30] and I think she has a bus.
[31] Right.
[32] That's a tour bus as opposed to an RV.
[33] What's the difference?
[34] Okay, so basically recreational vehicles.
[35] You know, you go out to the lake, you go out for a weekend.
[36] You know, people do live in them.
[37] And that's very much approachable for the middle class.
[38] How much are they?
[39] Well, they range.
[40] You can get a sprinter van all the way up to probably like a 35 foot Class A motorhome.
[41] Because it goes from, you can tow it on a trailer.
[42] It can be on full.
[43] wheels like what makes an RV an RV if I put a toilet in my car is that then an RV sure if you go out and recreate in it then it's technically one so you've got trailers that are towed behind trucks and those range in size from little tiny airstreams that are 12 feet long to dudes have four I should say people have I'm sure women have them too but I think not even men dudes I guess I'll call women dudes too male and female dudes can have 40 foot fifth wheel trailers behind it.
[44] And then financially a step up from that is that it's all self -contained and it has a chassis and an engine and everything.
[45] So that's one strata right?
[46] And then the first rung of that would be a class C where you have basically at the cab of a van up front and these manufacturers sell their van with just nothing in back and then some manufacturer puts the big shell on back and they build up the living space.
[47] A class A is now where it's not using the front of a van or a truck.
[48] It is is a specifically designed whole box on top of a chassis.
[49] Oh, and this is a whole other level.
[50] Now, within Class A, the big step up is whether you have a gas engine up front or you have what's called a diesel pusher.
[51] And that gap is you're looking at going from $120 ,000 to like $300 ,000 for the entry -level ones.
[52] And then in the case of my bus, that's the apex.
[53] And that is originally just Greyhound buses, industrial Greyhound buses, that then started getting outfitted for traveling bands, Willie Nelson.
[54] He's got a Prevost tour bus.
[55] Then that led to people having Prevost as recreational vehicles.
[56] And those rich people called their buses coach.
[57] The guy who sold me mine, shout out to David Garza down in Texas.
[58] You'd say, Dax, your family's going to love this coach.
[59] When you get in this coach and you get on the highway, you're going to feel Dax.
[60] the build quality of the four travel coach.
[61] We talked so much because it took me six months to get mine from when I liked it and put a deposit down until it got uninsnared in some legal thing.
[62] That's a whole other episode.
[63] There was a point where he called me, he said, Dax, it's Dave Garza.
[64] Unfortunately, your family is not going to get this coach.
[65] That's how he delivered the information to you?
[66] Yes, yes.
[67] So I've thought about this more than anything.
[68] He always mentioned my name in every sentence and generally your family.
[69] And this became a bit between my friend Huey and I, who lives in Nashville, where every time we want to do something selfish, we always go for our family.
[70] I want to get up and leave the house for my family.
[71] So what we think we've discovered is the saying someone's name is a well -worn trope in sales.
[72] You say their name every sentence.
[73] And so you're warm.
[74] Intimacy, yeah.
[75] Your family got curious to me. And I think what Huey and I figured out was this.
[76] It's not for your family.
[77] family.
[78] No wife has ever been like, hon, you know what we need to spend half of our net worth on?
[79] A fucking bus.
[80] And so the salesman's smart enough to know that you feel a little unethical about this outrageous purchase.
[81] So they're going to keep telling you it's for your family.
[82] I'm telling you it's the most selfish purchase a human makes.
[83] It's an, it's always a man. I hate to bolster the stereotypes.
[84] But listen, it's a man who wants a bus.
[85] It's like a man wants a semi.
[86] It's a man who wants to be a rock star.
[87] sure there's some columns within the man who wants a bus there's the freedom thing which i think is really we're gonna get into this yeah this notion of when the shit hits the fan i'll be mobile and self -contained and i can go anywhere and my backyard can be anywhere that's right and then there's a genuine wonder -lust traveler who loves being in different settings and if you have the option to live all over the world why wouldn't you that's such a cool notion that's not less about freedom and just true appreciation of all the many landscapes in America.
[88] What's it for you?
[89] What drew you to the RV?
[90] Long history of long distance driving.
[91] Road trips, Aaron and I, my hobby is like going down to Texas, seeing what we get into, going over here, we'll sleep on the beach, just let's get somewhere novel and experience it.
[92] Freedom, right?
[93] Is that freedom, though?
[94] I think it's freedom.
[95] The idea that you're not necessarily going to have to be at that hotel or that motel or that Airbnb, we can be anywhere.
[96] We can park on a beach.
[97] We can park on a beach.
[98] We can see whatever we want.
[99] I think it's freedom.
[100] I think it's part of that psyche.
[101] It's wonderful.
[102] Well, adventure.
[103] That's what I'd prefer to call it.
[104] It's like Aaron and I weren't an RV.
[105] We were in my fucking Geo Metro three cylinder with no room to sleep and we just sleep outside.
[106] Let's see where the wind takes us.
[107] Let's see what's there.
[108] So I have this deep wanderlust and sense of adventure.
[109] And now I have the means that I can have everything I want while I'm on the adventure.
[110] I can tow my off road vehicles with the bus.
[111] I can take a shower in there i can wash clothes in there i can cook real meals in there that bus to me is my favorite thing i've ever owned i'm getting in it in three days and i'm going to be out in it for a month yeah and i'll be with my family for two of the weeks and then i get the fucking family out of there and erin weekley flies in and he and i and then we get to the real shit and we're already playing like where are we going to go we're going to go see the avid brothers park the bus next to their bus we want to go to a mud bog tournament we want like we want to tackle America in the bus.
[112] I also think freedom adjacent is not being restricted.
[113] It's not being confined.
[114] It's like, I can do anything at any time.
[115] It's like freedom, but it's not exactly that.
[116] It's like, I'm not stuck.
[117] I'm not stuck.
[118] That's a great one.
[119] Even like when Aaron and I are on this trip, if it's going to rain for three days in the place we're at, we bounce.
[120] We look at the weather mat, we go, oh, fuck.
[121] Or if we find out there's going to be a tornado in fucking Iowa, we're going to the tornado.
[122] You can change your pants.
[123] Yeah, it's like you go with the wind takes you.
[124] When opportunity presents itself, you unleash the bus, you deploy the bus.
[125] For me, the fantasy of it, the wanderer, yet you're not paying any price.
[126] Aaron and I, when we both graduated, or I graduated, when we got out of high school, we lived in my Mustang for six months.
[127] Six months that's growing down so hard.
[128] Oh, my God.
[129] Yes.
[130] And we just roamed the country for six months.
[131] and it was for sure one of the highlights of my life.
[132] Full disclosure, my relationship to RVs is terror and panic because I came to America to go to Coachella a very long time ago.
[133] I really wanted to go to Coachella.
[134] It was the Tupac hologram was Radiohead.
[135] I met my friends here, and it was my job to drive the RV to Coachella.
[136] I'd never driven on an American road before.
[137] So my first experience driving on the opposite side of the road, sitting on the opposite side of where you're meant to have the steering wheel was in this giant RV hurtling along the road.
[138] It was such a terrifying thing because it's so big.
[139] Pulling off the freeway is terrifying.
[140] I got stuck in a Walmart parking lot.
[141] I was trying to back it out.
[142] People were screaming at me. I get a visceral reaction when I hear RV of terror.
[143] I didn't crash.
[144] We made it.
[145] I learned how to empty the sewage, all that stuff.
[146] I'm impressed.
[147] It was a lot.
[148] But yeah, that's my reaction.
[149] It's just first driving experience in America just being in sheer panic.
[150] Yeah.
[151] So my bus is 45 feet long and I tow a 30 foot trailer.
[152] Oh, there's more.
[153] Which is illegal.
[154] You're only allowed to be 65 feet all in rolling down the road and we're often 7580.
[155] Who is ever going to pick up on that?
[156] Is anyone going to call you out?
[157] Yes.
[158] Only California.
[159] It's the only place that even gives a shit.
[160] You'll find all the time when you're in the sand dunes that sometimes they're running kind of of stings on it and they're only targeting guys from Arizona coming to California to go to the sand dunes in fucking Arizona they're 100 feet long no one's bad than I these don't care also California is rare in that you got to have a special license for my buzz but no other state do you have to have just California right just California they're pulling you over and they get they're coming up with the tape making super long tape like you'd measure a football field with and they roll it out from the front of your yes the good thing is that people clear out of the way for you if you change lanes people sort of move, or that's what I found.
[161] I don't want to be a brat because, look, I drive a 40 ,000 -pound vehicle.
[162] It's on me. But in California in particular, your average driver has no sense.
[163] I don't think you guys realize what you're playing with.
[164] Like, this is going to...
[165] Yes, it's like a freight ship.
[166] Like, I can't stop in 40 feet.
[167] For this episode, I did some research, and I made the mistake of Googling RV crashes.
[168] And it's people slow -mo getting out of control on icy roads, being places they shouldn't.
[169] And it's horrific to see because once it spins on ice or something, it's just such a big thing that's out of control.
[170] It's a whole genre that I just find terrifying.
[171] I put out a request on Instagram this week to get people's RV stories because I went up to where I usually do these with my little microphone and a man chased me. And so I got scared temporarily of going up to people with my microphone.
[172] Was it a friend you just didn't recognize?
[173] No, you were so angry.
[174] It was wrong.
[175] 50 times.
[176] He was chasing you saying, I don't know.
[177] No, David, hi, David, where you going, David?
[178] I made the mistake of walking up to someone who I think just was particularly unhinged, and they kind of lunged at me. I got quite a big fright.
[179] And I just didn't want to go back up there again.
[180] Anyway, so I went on Instagram, and I said, if you have an RV experience, you think's worth sharing, send me a voice memo.
[181] And so these are some of my favorites.
[182] I lived in a motor home for a year and a half as a kid.
[183] My family traveled the country and my parents homeschooled us.
[184] and we went to 40 -some -odd states.
[185] Traveling in a motorhome was a really unique way to see the world.
[186] It's so much easier than any other way to travel with kids because I would get up and make lunches while she was driving.
[187] The kids could use the bathroom the whole time.
[188] It just worked out so well.
[189] One of the craziest things that happened to us, we were looking for somewhere to park overnight and someone we met said, oh, I work at a Walmart.
[190] You can stay in the parking lot.
[191] And so we're following this car across town.
[192] And all of a sudden we hear like a gunshot and my dad yells, we're being shot at.
[193] Get down everybody.
[194] And so we all got down and we hear continual shots.
[195] And we get to the Walmart parking lot and get out.
[196] And there are bullet holes in our windshield.
[197] There's one in the driver's side window and bullet holes all down the length of the motorhome.
[198] I quarantined in an RV at the start of the COVID pandemic, but had nowhere really to quarantine at my parents' house, and so they borrowed a camper, and while I'm very grateful for that, it was an awful experience.
[199] It was still snowing.
[200] The camper was moving back and forth because of the storm happening outside.
[201] The heater broke, so I was bundled up in winter coats and blankets constantly.
[202] The water stopped working, so I couldn't shower.
[203] I was absolutely disgusting.
[204] We were visiting Joshua Tree National Park.
[205] I was dumping our sewage tanks and a nice couple from Germany that were visiting really didn't understand the American system of the black tanks and dumping.
[206] So I offered to help them out, showed them how to do everything.
[207] And when they were done, the gentleman disconnected, whipped around, flung the hose, and covered my lower body with their excrement.
[208] However, it was okay.
[209] They were nice.
[210] And there was a hose there.
[211] I washed off.
[212] Wow.
[213] That's a compliment in Germany.
[214] They like their shy chef.
[215] I actually got in trouble from a lot of Germans after the Toilie episode because I talked a bit about how much Germans love poo or something.
[216] I made some comment.
[217] I think we did.
[218] Maybe you guys said.
[219] I heard from a lot of Germans saying just so you know we're not all into poo.
[220] I believe we're not all into it for sure.
[221] But there's a Vandy Fair article about it, I think.
[222] I'm going to trust that.
[223] 99 % of you.
[224] All I can say is that it was a German that sprayed an American man with feces.
[225] I kept thinking this on our European trip this summer.
[226] We were driving around Austria and Italy and all those roads.
[227] And I was like, well, you just don't see any big browns.
[228] I don't even think I could drive Big Brown.
[229] My bus is called Big Brown.
[230] Big Brown's bigger than all the semis here.
[231] They don't even have vehicles like that.
[232] And then I was also thinking about I got obsessed with Tyson Fury the other night.
[233] And I stayed up all night learning about him.
[234] Do you know anything about him?
[235] The boxer?
[236] I know he's a boxer.
[237] That's all I've got.
[238] But he's what's called a caravaner.
[239] I think in the old days they called those folks gypsies.
[240] He calls himself the Gypsy King.
[241] But, you know, there's a whole subset of Brits that are caravaners as a culture.
[242] They live in caravans.
[243] They travel in caravans.
[244] But what shocked me when I was watching this Tyson Fury thing was he parked his Ferrari next to his caravan.
[245] It doesn't even exist anywhere like it does here.
[246] That's why I really wanted to dive into this, because in New Zealand, you don't see the RV culture.
[247] Tourists would maybe get an RV when they land and drive around the South Island and see all that Lord of the Ring stuff.
[248] But New Zealanders don't aspire to own an RV We're much more into caravans So people will have a caravan We've got little caravan parks You might tow it on the back of your car They're tiny though But yeah they're tiny But a whole infrastructure is smaller I feel like America is built for RVs Because your roads are so big Yeah New Zealand roads are tiny So it is a really American thing My question just in general Because I didn't really get into it In the documentary When people in America see an RV There's all sorts of different types of people they have RVs are they like yay it's an RV is it like oh god another RVer is there like a vibe in general that they give off well there's no hatred towards RVers I don't think so there's a worry that their freedom camp is in New Zealand and that they'll be putting their poo in the bushes or something oh Jesus amount anyone's worried about that okay but if I could just say the general stereotype all growing up all through my life when you saw a good size RV driving on the road you thought oh those are retirees it's how you live the rest of your life until you die you see the country.
[249] The kids are gone.
[250] Yep.
[251] You're free on the road.
[252] You need less.
[253] You downsize.
[254] You have this.
[255] You now have the time.
[256] You have no schedule.
[257] So it is generally represented retirement.
[258] You're living the life of retiree just a little bit earlier.
[259] I'm trying my best.
[260] Yeah.
[261] Have you done much avian, Monica?
[262] No, only via dachs in the sand dunes.
[263] That's the only time I've ever been to want.
[264] My parents would never.
[265] That's not their thing.
[266] No. Even the idea of them driving something that big that's too scary so yeah the very first time you joined us out in the dunes and you got into the elmonte rental 37 foot class a gas motor up front not a big dog but a big unit were you like oh this is shockingly comfortable or why do they do this no I was like this is so fun it was so fun I really like it I do like the idea that your family would ever consider your friends can roam around whilst you're driving oh and cook some food or use the bathroom, take a shower.
[267] That's so funny.
[268] I did have one bad experience in the...
[269] Oh, with Aaron?
[270] Yeah.
[271] What happened?
[272] We were at the Sand Dunes and Aaron.
[273] You know, you can't really have any separation.
[274] That's the only problem with the RV, obviously.
[275] You're all in it together.
[276] You're all in it together.
[277] And if you haven't got your deviated septum fixed yet.
[278] And even if you have, Monica, if you don't have your sleep apnea device on.
[279] Oh, my God.
[280] Oh, it was Snow Central.
[281] I mean, you've never.
[282] You really have never heard anything like it.
[283] I had on headphones with white noise, like, blaring to try to stop it.
[284] No, I was up all night.
[285] What was unique then about Aaron's snoring is it's the deviated septum plus sleep apnea.
[286] And so you can't even get into the rhythm of it because here's how it sounds.
[287] It's not soothing.
[288] It is what it sounds like.
[289] It starts, I'll say, it goes, it goes.
[290] Oh, Jesus.
[291] oh no yeah literally stops breathing so you become aware of the fact like oh my god is this the time i have to shake him awake like he would stop breathing for like seven eight seconds straight yes so you're on edge yes exactly it gives you anxiety it's not just so you can't sleep you're also anxious now mind you he got his septum fix he also started using a sleep apnea advice finally got dialed in i slept with him a bunch in miami and in orlando he's like a little church mouse now when he sleeps oh it's like a whole new piece person yeah the mask really changed everything for him i'm glad he's doing bitter because i'm just immune to it all wake up in the morning and i noticed oh everyone's really grouchy what what happened you bounce out of bed like hey guys yes and i wasn't and these two murder they're like they're fucked up and angry i'm like what what happened we were nice about it you were nice to him but you were cranky rightly so don't get any sleep all night absolutely and then you left we were already oh okay okay it wasn't It wasn't for that day.
[292] We'd left the entire holiday.
[293] We would have, though.
[294] That was impossible.
[295] Yeah, also the issue of sharing a bathroom when you're all on board.
[296] There's all those issues as well.
[297] Yeah, I like having nails.
[298] But Big Brown's got two full bathrooms.
[299] I know.
[300] Two.
[301] Yeah, both with showers.
[302] You're having two people doing a poo at the same time.
[303] In the dream situation, yeah, ideally.
[304] Me and a German friend.
[305] This is my little documentary that I made to educate us all a little bit more about RVs.
[306] I am curious if you learn anything from this.
[307] When an American loves something, they'll make a film about it, which is how we ended up with a comedy called RV in 2006, starring Robin Williams, Jeff Daniels and Cheryl Hines from Kirby Enthusiasm.
[308] Mom, some idiot just parked this ugly RV outside our house.
[309] Oh my God, it's your husband.
[310] A family is falling apart at the seams, so they hire an RV so they can go on a road trip, fixing all their family problems along the way on their way to the Rockies.
[311] sits at 24 % on rotten tomatoes.
[312] But despite those terrible reviews, the film had zero impact on the popularity of RVs.
[313] They've just gotten more and more popular ever since.
[314] So we know there are 11 .2 million households that own an RV.
[315] We did a large demographic profile study.
[316] That's so many.
[317] Yeah, it's a lot.
[318] And it's gone up 60 % in the last 20 years.
[319] I'm talking to Monica Gracie, the official spokesperson for the American RV Industry Association.
[320] An organization I've been with for 12 years now, and I was really excited to work for the RV industry because I grew up RVing.
[321] I grew up in Southern California.
[322] A lot of my first travel memories are that of me and my four siblings.
[323] There were five of us in a motor home.
[324] My sisters and I in the back queen bed and my brother's at the full down table, and my parents got the sofa that folded out into a bed.
[325] Monica lives and breathes and says that as well as getting more popular, they're also getting hipper, apparently.
[326] Of those 11 .2 million households that own an RV, the median age of an RV owner is 53.
[327] But we did a survey of people who bought RVs both in 2020 and then again in 2021.
[328] And the median age of people who bought an RV for the first time in 2020 was 41, significant drop.
[329] But 2021, The median age of a first -time RV buyer, 33, 33.
[330] Some of this can be put down to COVID.
[331] With air travel grounded, Americans learn to explore their own backyard in a different way.
[332] The pandemic has absolutely supercharged interest in RV.
[333] Summer of 2020, you wanted to travel.
[334] The only way you were traveling was in an RV.
[335] So there were a lot of people who maybe had never even thought of an RV.
[336] And this was the only way.
[337] If they wanted the freedom to still travel and control their environment, it was RVing, and we continue to see people wanting to go RVing because as corny as it sounds, is that people rediscovered the great outdoors during COVID.
[338] I can't do anything.
[339] I'm locked at home.
[340] If I have to be inside for one more minute, I'm going to go crazy.
[341] And so people wanted to be outside.
[342] And whether that was their local park or, I don't know, playing pickleball, like that's now a thing.
[343] What is pickleball?
[344] I don't know.
[345] I just know it's like the crevasest growing sport.
[346] I Google Pickleball and find an article from July's New Yorker called Can Pickleball Save America?
[347] Pickleball, the fastest growing sport in America.
[348] The article begins.
[349] Michael Phelps, Leonardo DiCaprio, and George Clooney are all playing pickleball, apparently.
[350] From what I can tell, it's a sport that happened when tennis and badminton had sex.
[351] Out came their weird child, pickleball.
[352] Anyway, the pandemic was good for both RVs and pickleball.
[353] But as far as RVs go, I feel like the pandemic turns some Americans onto RVs for less aspirational reasons.
[354] I noticed walking around LA, there are a lot of people that seem to be living in RVs here.
[355] The ones I see in my fairly central LA neighborhood are all old and run down, windows covered and tarp so you can't see in.
[356] I assume that people who have fallen on hard times, RVs are cheaper than renting, and certainly an upgrade from living in a car or having no shelter at all.
[357] I get the feeling the RV Association of America doesn't particularly want to talk about that aspect of RV ownership.
[358] RV stands for recreation vehicle, so they're really supposed to be used for recreation.
[359] They're not supposed to be lived in.
[360] Only one and a half percent of all RV owners are full -timers.
[361] So the vast, vast majority of them use them three weeks a year on vacations.
[362] Of course, the PR person for the RV Association is going to encourage me to get into this lifestyle.
[363] I ask where I should drive to.
[364] She tells me the West Coast is good.
[365] Apparently I need to go to the Grand Canyon and some place where you can lie down and be in all four states at the same time.
[366] The main decision is what size and style of RV to get.
[367] That's what's really interesting.
[368] There are so many different types.
[369] You've got everything from a pop -up camper that you can keep in your garage and it literally pops up.
[370] And you can get those for $5 ,000, and then you go all the way up to these million or multi -million dollar coaches that can be needed.
[371] nicer than a lot of people's houses.
[372] And there's everything in between.
[373] And so we do represent everything from the really small, towable RVs, and then you've got your kind of classic traditional bumper pole RV, and that's the vast majority of RVs are those bumper pole.
[374] I guess my biggest hang -up about RVs is the toilet situation.
[375] I just don't like the idea of traveling around with a sewer in my car.
[376] I talk to my friend who's a musician and spent some time on a tour bus, which is a bit like an RV.
[377] She said there was a rule no one could use the toilet for fear it would stink the place out.
[378] They'd pull over at a truck stop or Starbucks to do their business.
[379] As the tour went on, bandmates got lazy and one did their business in a bag.
[380] They flung it out the window, but the bag burst against the side of the bus anyway.
[381] So there are dump stations and most campgrounds you need to dump your waste at the dump station.
[382] That is the only place you dump the waste.
[383] And it's very important to be a responsible RV owner.
[384] The big part of Monica's job with the RV Association is making sure America has the infrastructure to cope with the growing number of RVs on the road.
[385] One of our big policy areas is to make sure that people have a place to go RVing.
[386] And the number of campgrounds hasn't necessarily kept pace, particularly on federal lands.
[387] A lot of those campgrounds were built during the Eisenhower era and maybe haven't been updated since.
[388] RVs look a little different than they did 40, 50 years ago.
[389] and we need our campgrounds to be able to service those RVs and also provide the experiences that today's RVer is looking for.
[390] Talking to Monica, I do get the appeal of an RV.
[391] America is big.
[392] It has big roads that suit an RV.
[393] And there are a bunch of apps that can help you find the best route, taking into account things like the height of tunnels and bridges so you don't demolish your RV.
[394] And while RVs weren't invented in America, they've become so ingrained in American life.
[395] Tom Salick was the voice of RVing for years.
[396] Hitting the road with everything you love never loses its thrill.
[397] What will you discover?
[398] Go RVing.
[399] I think of Goldstream, started back when I was just one year old in 1983.
[400] It's the largest privately held RV maker in America, with 26 brands and 100 models, employing over 1 ,500 workers in Indiana.
[401] Alcott Country is known as the RV capital of the world.
[402] because 85 % of RVs are sold in Indiana, bringing in $32 billion into its economy.
[403] Then there's Winnebago, founded in 1958.
[404] I'm not sure if you've seen it, but there's an amazing video on YouTube called Winnebago Man. It's outtakes from an RV salesman, trying to record an infomercial sometime during the 90s, except he's having a very terrible time.
[405] The Winnebago Concepts and Engineering Departments have developed a multifunctional bathroom, Privacy, I don't even what the fuck I'm reading.
[406] He just keeps mangling his lines as he tries to sell a fancy Winnebago.
[407] It's strangely delightful to watch it.
[408] And they fit the needs of a very diverse buyer segment.
[409] Why can't I remember this stuff?
[410] Why can't I remember it?
[411] Why don't I say it fucking right?
[412] Before I let Monica get on with her day, I ask her if she's seen Winnebago man. She hasn't.
[413] But she says a lot has changed since the day of the old white American man being the face of RVing.
[414] The diversity breakdown is very close to the breakdown of the census.
[415] The new buyers that are coming in is reflective of American society as a whole, which is really cool.
[416] Stay tuned for more flightless bird.
[417] We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.
[418] Flightless Bird is brought to you by BetterHelp.
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[469] I thought that was really interesting that it is getting younger and more diverse because I like you just thought it was so, so old.
[470] But apparently it's changing.
[471] The thing I was thinking of, of course, is like probably the most famous RV thing in movies is Christmas vacation.
[472] The fact that Uncle Eddie shows up in an RV.
[473] Uncle Eddie is the epitome of the backwards hillbilly.
[474] He's been the butt of the jokes for three films.
[475] And now he shows up in this RV.
[476] He empties the toilet in the sewer out front, which is illegal.
[477] There's an explosion.
[478] That's what people associated RVs with.
[479] Yeah.
[480] That's not it now.
[481] Hipster's RV.
[482] It's definitely had a huge transformation.
[483] Yeah.
[484] It's like all over Instagram people.
[485] It is.
[486] And there's cool ones.
[487] There's apps now, I think one's called Hip Camp.
[488] I've done that.
[489] have it's called hip camp well it's glamping is i think what they go on right oh well she said the app is everything with this stuff because it'll like show you where you can go we can use campgrounds everything hip camp is sites and then there's outdoorsy where you can actually rent like trucks from people like if you wanted to rent it it's like Airbnb for RVs oh that's cool I have plans of using hip camp on this trip with Aaron yeah right because we don't know where we're staying yeah so like the whole thing's changing and I also said who's your new spokesperson and we don't use any We used to use celebs to sell it.
[490] We just use now like real people on the ground.
[491] So it's all that kind of marketing now being pushed to people.
[492] You had to ask me, my very favorite YouTube clip of all time, it is the Winnebago.
[493] You just search for Winnebago, man. If you haven't seen it, it's delightful.
[494] And there's a great documentary that was made about him called.
[495] They find him, right?
[496] Is it called Winnebago, man?
[497] It is.
[498] It's incredible.
[499] At one point, a fly starts landing on him and he just starts screaming at the fly.
[500] He goes, one fly, two flies.
[501] So get out of here, you jackass.
[502] Yeah, I used to have the entire thing memorized.
[503] But he's a beautiful dude.
[504] Incredible history, that guy.
[505] He was like a news reporter.
[506] Then he got into writing these spots.
[507] Yeah, there's much more to him than just being an angry RV salesman.
[508] And at the time they meet up with him, he's largely blind.
[509] He feels made fun of.
[510] But then he comes to realize how much joy it gives me. Like, he learns to embrace it at the end.
[511] He goes to a screening.
[512] It's a really beautiful doctor.
[513] It is a really beat.
[514] If you haven't seen Winnebago, man, please do watch it.
[515] And she tickled.
[516] Oh, thank you.
[517] Yeah, two great things.
[518] Yeah, and check out on chips on Netflix while we're pumping stuff.
[519] Okay, anyway, so in the era of Winnebago man, you would run a 110 plug from your house into that thing to run the electronics.
[520] There were very little electronics.
[521] Maybe you had a fridge and probably ran on propane.
[522] Nowadays, like my bus, I have a 50 amp output for it because I can run four AC units.
[523] I have a residential fridge inside.
[524] The demands are so much different.
[525] And so in all these older campgrounds, they don't have any of the shit.
[526] You need to draw the power of a small city.
[527] Pointing out the waist, yes.
[528] Speaking of that, I wanted to explore the other side of RVing, which is kind of fascinating to me. Monica Gracie had given me a lot of statistics when I spoke to her.
[529] Like the fact over 600 ,000 brand new RVs shipped last year, over 200 ,000 up from 2006, B -year Robin Williams made that RVs.
[530] film.
[531] But one statistic stuck in my brain.
[532] The least impressive one.
[533] One and a half percent of all RV owners are full -timers.
[534] I found that number fascinating.
[535] Going on that stat of 11 .2 million homes having an RV, that means around 168 ,000 Americans are living in an RV full -time.
[536] That's bigger than the population of the town in New Zealand that I grew up in.
[537] I wanted to meet someone who'd made an RV that permanent abode.
[538] Well, my name is Anthony Guzman.
[539] I'm actually an actor.
[540] You can Google me and actually find me if you want.
[541] For the last month, I'd kept seeing this RV parked up in a park that I go to.
[542] It came and went, but it always ended up parked under the same tree, which is near this little trickling stream.
[543] One day I saw a very tanned, quite lithe man emerge from inside.
[544] And I said hello.
[545] Oh, and I did Google him.
[546] He was born in Cuba in 1966.
[547] He's been in a whole bunch of stuff since the 90s, including Al Cartel, a Colombian TV series where he played agent Peter McAllister, head of the DEA.
[548] It was a pretty big show in Latin America.
[549] And while his acting career has been up and down over the last 30 years, he says an RV has been the one constant.
[550] I've been here since 92.
[551] I've been living in RVs most of the time.
[552] If you are a taxpayting citizen, have a clean license, not a felon, you can park anywhere you want.
[553] And where we're sitting right.
[554] now is a park donated by a wealthy family to the city.
[555] This place is an RV sanctuary.
[556] I mean, I come to this park to go for a walk most days.
[557] And yeah, I guess it would make a really nice place to live.
[558] The houses here cost a lot.
[559] I mean, he doesn't live here exactly.
[560] He lives in an RV.
[561] But he tries to make sure the RV is here as much as possible.
[562] At 5 in the morning, you're allowed to pull in here.
[563] And then at sundown, you can cruise right out.
[564] But that's at 9 o 'clock at night.
[565] So you've got a free beautiful sanctuary in the middle of, I mean, God land right here for free.
[566] This is heaven.
[567] Right now we're sat on a nice green hill.
[568] His two dogs sit next to us, both half huskies, half terriers.
[569] Oh, my dog's name is Obie after Obi won't Canobi and then Nina per girl in Spanish, Nina.
[570] Anthony says this lifestyle is not for everyone.
[571] He went through a divorce a while back and apart from Obie and Nina, he's lives alone.
[572] So it's not like he has to jam his whole family into his RV.
[573] He's fit and in good health.
[574] He says that's important.
[575] You have to be able to deal with things when they break down and be savvy to fix things.
[576] He doesn't have a toilet in his RV because he says that creates a smell and if you're parking in a public place, that starts to bother people.
[577] His goal is to be as clean and unobtrusive as possible.
[578] You can't really have a kid because if your kid needs to go to the bathroom, you're not going to tell him, I'll go in a little bag.
[579] Hold on.
[580] Let me get the bag ready.
[581] No, no, no, it doesn't work like that.
[582] You have to be like, I think a single guy, maybe with a wife that's outdoorsy too.
[583] He says not having a toilet nearby and other complications that come from living in a small place are all worth it.
[584] If something bothers you?
[585] Like, if you're running an apartment, you can't just leave your apartment because your neighbor's bothering you, but in an RV.
[586] You can do that.
[587] You can just take off if anyone's bugging you in any way whatsoever.
[588] It's like a different backyard every day.
[589] Correct, correct.
[590] And it's not as expensive as people think, because you can get insurance, like you could tell them the insurance company, you're parking it in a place where there's not much crime or much theft to bring down your insurance costs monthly.
[591] He says some people he knows who live in RVs just tell the insurance company it's parked up at their grandma's house, and they end up paying just $150 a year for insurance.
[592] Not exactly legal, but one of the tricks that allows some people to live like this.
[593] LA's, we're in the biggest democratic state.
[594] So this is close to communists as you get.
[595] meaning trying to help the poor kind of thing with.
[596] Yeah, it's a great concept, but you've got to be very smart.
[597] You can't park in front of a mansion and just have a barbecue with your family because they're not going to like it.
[598] They don't pay a million dollars for you to park your RV in front of their mansion.
[599] So you have to have lights up here.
[600] Or be a homeless guy, not have lights and be, you know, in the nastiest neighborhood in town.
[601] It's up to you how you want to be responsible with your RV.
[602] Because I know a gentleman that has five really ugly RVs.
[603] These are the RVs I was talking about earlier.
[604] The really run -down ones I've seen scattered around the suburban streets on my morning walks.
[605] I've seen these RVs parked up there.
[606] One man owns five of them, and he uses them to rent them out to people.
[607] An RV landlord, I guess.
[608] Slumlord might be more appropriate.
[609] He takes advantage.
[610] Actually, a European guy, but I feel sorry for him.
[611] But anyways, some people are like that.
[612] They give the RV people a bad name because they're homeless.
[613] Anthony is empathy for those forced to rent RVs to get off the street or store their stuff in because he was once very close to being in that situation himself.
[614] So that's what's happening here in L .A. As the rents are blown sky high in Miami too, by the way, sky high.
[615] A hole in the wall is $1 ,250.
[616] We're talking to studio, tiny studio, $1 .50 if you could find it.
[617] And $1 ,500 size, an actor, if you don't book, you're screwed.
[618] I literally came here 92 from New York, and I had a bunch of money, and I didn't book a job for months.
[619] I literally drained all my money, going into meeting, actually drinking wine to calm down, because I was nervous I was, because if I didn't book, I'm homeless.
[620] So the RV, finally I figured it out.
[621] A light popped up and said, man, I got the lifestyle for this kind of situation.
[622] Anthony, sees you have to be savvy and careful, an RV is less secure than a house, and you have to be careful where you put.
[623] park and how you act.
[624] What's the biggest disaster you've had in an RV?
[625] Like, have you been towed?
[626] Has anyone been violent?
[627] You're in L .A. You got fentanyl, that new drug that's basically killed most of the homeless stuff.
[628] Few homeless that are left are completely dangerous and out of their minds, but they don't come up to this type.
[629] You've got to know what area to park.
[630] There are a bunch of RVs at Skid Row.
[631] I didn't go down there for this podcast to talk to anyone, but there are a bunch more out at Santa Monica as well.
[632] I've heard from another source that about 40 of them are owned by one guy who rents them out as well.
[633] Anthony avoids certain neighborhoods, but even in good neighborhoods, he says you can still be a large target if you live in an RV.
[634] They spray painted it not too long ago, three months ago with graffiti.
[635] If you park your RV and they see it on a main street, they'll start riding on it.
[636] That is not cool.
[637] And I had to get it off really quickly.
[638] But Anthony says the good outweighs the bad.
[639] I've made him give me some low lights over the last 30 years, but there have been loads of highs.
[640] He's seen more of America than most Americans have, certainly more than I have.
[641] That's it, man. It is absolutely magnificent to drive through America.
[642] Every half hour, the government puts rest stops, and every rest stop has its own theme.
[643] So if you're going through Arizona, it's an Arizona theme.
[644] And if you're going through Miami's, like a beachy thing and it's awesome.
[645] I think about my rent and wonder if an RV could be the life for me. Ballpark, how much for, you're not going to buy one brand new, like how much for a decent one second hand that you can live in?
[646] 15 grand.
[647] That's not bad.
[648] That's not bad.
[649] 15 grand and up.
[650] Mine was, the one you see there was 10 and I put like three into it.
[651] Inside it's all got wood floor.
[652] I mean, it's really nice.
[653] I feel like Anthony has quite a charming kind of life.
[654] He's been in a Madonna music video, an episode of Nash Bridges, and a few episodes of Lawless, and he says an RV has given him a sense of calm in the chaotic world of acting.
[655] As an actor, I don't sweat now.
[656] My trailer paid off.
[657] I own everything, so now when I get a part, I could really enjoy it instead of being shoveled and stressed about how am I going to pay my rent.
[658] Honestly, the RV lifestyle, I think it's one of the most amazing privileges you could have as a human being.
[659] Like right now, if I felt like it, I can get in my RV and go to Malibu, park right on the ocean, spend the whole day there.
[660] I leave Anthony on the hill with his dogs.
[661] I keep spotting him over the next week or so.
[662] I wave.
[663] One time he's getting some water from the stream, which he boils inside.
[664] But I keep thinking about what he said about those other RV scattered around town.
[665] Anthony had told me one man, a man with an accent, owned at least five of them.
[666] I wanted to meet this guy, this RV landlord.
[667] And then a few weeks later, I did.
[668] I'd change my walking routine so I'd walk past as many of those run -down RVs as possible.
[669] Then, on a day in July, a little red car pulls up.
[670] A man got out, stooped, clutching a portable battery, and started heading towards one of the RVs.
[671] I approached cautiously and said hello.
[672] He offered a handshake and a toothy grin before apologising for not having his top dentures in.
[673] He has a heavy accent, European, so I asked.
[674] ask if he's the guy that owns all these RVs.
[675] He says he's not, but he knows the guy that does.
[676] As then I see a whole string of keys hung around his neck, and I'm pretty sure he is the guy.
[677] I mean, he's not good at covering it up.
[678] Later in our conversation, which he won't let me record, he points to a very old RV down the road and tells me he got that one for free.
[679] I ask him how much he rents it out for.
[680] He laughs and changes the subject.
[681] He tells me he's a part -time comedian, but for asking what I pay in a room, rent.
[682] I tell him.
[683] He tells me I'm a sucker.
[684] I directly ask how much he rents his RVs out for, but he just laughs, his gummy laugh.
[685] He tells me he'll think about doing an interview with me, but only on the condition I won't say where his RVs are parked, or they'll change the rules.
[686] He gives me a phone number.
[687] I call it each day.
[688] Please leave your message for me. I leave a lot of messages.
[689] Oh, hey, it's David Farrier.
[690] I days after that, it's disconnected.
[691] I started this episode about RVs with images of golf streams and American holidays in my mind.
[692] And that's a big part of RV culture in America.
[693] But I've discovered, like with most things, there's another side too.
[694] For some, RVs are the height of luxury, million -dollar homes on wheels.
[695] For others, they represent a lifestyle that simply works.
[696] Paired back and simple, like the $10 ,000 RV that helps a struggling TV actor keep their dreams alive.
[697] And for others, RVs are born out of desperation, a way of being on the street while still having a roof over their heads.
[698] To do this, perhaps you pay a man with no Appetit, who got your home for free before renting it out to you.
[699] The man tells you he's a part -time comedian, and maybe that makes you the punchline of a bad joke.
[700] I can't believe, well, first of all, wow, that was great.
[701] I can't believe it took the turn into one of my biggest preoccupations is those fucking.
[702] RVs.
[703] He doesn't have to tell you where they're parked.
[704] I'll tell you where they're parked.
[705] About eight of them are in front of my house.
[706] Well, first of all, I loved Anthony.
[707] He's clearly a sweet dude.
[708] He's a sweet dude.
[709] I like Anthony.
[710] Unfortunately, most of the urban RVers aren't as conscientious as him.
[711] It'd be great.
[712] If they all behave like he did, I don't think there'd be a problem.
[713] The fact that I was leaving to bring the girls to school and one was engulfed in flames in front of my house and burnt to the ground is more the norm.
[714] Yeah.
[715] And when you're walking by on your night walk quite often the doors open and people are smoking meth inside and that's the reality and i was fascinating because i walk here to record and i'm always walking past them and i kept seeing them all and in my mind i was like oh okay so obviously these are pretty rundown someone's bought them for cheap and they're living in this area that's what i thought because it's a nice area but no what i found out is and it happens out by the beach as well there are these rv landlords They buy them, slam lords, they buy them, or get given them for free, and then they rent them back to people.
[716] I guess there's two takes on that, right?
[717] They're providing a service to people that would be on the road.
[718] Otherwise, also, though, it seems pretty, yeah.
[719] Here's where I think our compassion for anyone that would find themselves homeless, clouds are evaluation of the situation, which is, I can't go park my bus at the public park.
[720] Yeah.
[721] that we agree that that's a space that is not for camping.
[722] It's a public park for playing with kids and having your dogs run around.
[723] I have to have a reservation.
[724] I have to make an appointment.
[725] I can't just park willy -nilly wherever I want.
[726] How does it work?
[727] There are like these, I mean, this guy I met who apparently owns five of them got one for free.
[728] Yeah.
[729] And is now renting it out to someone.
[730] So they're junkers.
[731] Like they wouldn't be roadworthy.
[732] We wouldn't allow someone to drive them down the street.
[733] And then the other thing that I think our compassion clouds a little bit, our assessment, is no one would suggest that everyone has a right to live in Beverly Hills.
[734] Like when you pose it that way, it sounds kind of preposterous or I have a right to live on Martha's Vineyard.
[735] You could make enough money to go live there.
[736] Yeah, the rents are terrible here.
[737] And that means not everyone can afford to live here.
[738] It doesn't mean that everyone can live here out on the middle of a sidewalk and you can't walk down it anymore.
[739] The weirdest loophole around here, it's legally, it's allowed.
[740] And the reason he wouldn't tell me his name or desperately didn't want me to say where he was, is that he didn't want the rules to change.
[741] And in the back of my mind, I was like, what if it is a family that's in there that's suddenly going to get evicted?
[742] I don't want to be the one that's responsible for that.
[743] Do you know what I mean?
[744] I've never walked by one of these motorhomes that a family was in.
[745] In the evening, they're often open, and I see what's happening there.
[746] And it's generally three or four dudes gathered and they're doing drugs or they're getting drunk it'd be one thing if there were a bunch of displaced families with children that's just not the reality of the situation did you know that they were all owned by one person i'm going to eat crow right now because my friend leslie was like you know those are all owned by a guy and he's renting them out and i'm like there's no conspiracy that's bullshit these are just people who are living in them and they own them and i've increasingly been getting more info that suggests she's right and now when you did this i'm like oh my god it's actually and you talk to the guy Yeah, no, I met him.
[747] And very clearly in the middle of the conversation, he just pointed it to it and he said, I got that one for free.
[748] And he did literally have a chain of keys around his neck.
[749] But it's weird that, I mean, it is illegal to park on the street.
[750] They're covered in tickets.
[751] Yeah, so the key is, of course it shouldn't be illegal.
[752] If I'm a homeowner that's going on a trip in two days and I want to bring my RV to my house and load it, I should be able to park in front of my house on the street.
[753] Totally realistic, manageable, not a problem.
[754] So how do they deline?
[755] between that and a permanent resident that that thing's never going on any trip yeah anthony's not driving that thing to miami i just is not happening as much as i love him anthony guzman his RV is drivable he's driving it the other ones we see that it could barely go down the block anthony's looks kind of fancy not fancy but it's like it's definitely he could drive it anywhere that's when i became curious what separated out someone like him and what he's living in to the ones that i walk past every day that are covered in tarp and have fake security cameras on the outside that kind of like look like that's availing you it's a really interesting thing in america and we wouldn't get that in new zealand and it's very la i suppose but yeah i've not seen a study on this but anecdotally i don't see any anthony's i see only the permanent parked piles of shit that no one should be living in are dangerous and at risk of exploding all the time.
[756] I don't see any nice motor, you know.
[757] Yeah, that's not something you see a lot of.
[758] That's not the issue in L .A. is well -maintained motorhomes moving around and going to the beach.
[759] That's just not the issue.
[760] No, and down on Skid Row, I was talking to someone, and there are a bunch of RVs down there, and I mean, they've got the top shaved off.
[761] So it's just, they're basically just walls.
[762] I just think it's so fascinating that RVs, which in my mind, we're talking about the family holiday and that kind of thing.
[763] There's this idealistic version of what America is, but there's this other side here now increasingly where they are just used for the sort of the lower kind of echelons of society trying to stay afloat or not.
[764] It's just such an interesting spectrum.
[765] That's post -pandemic probably obviously more and it's increasing.
[766] We weren't seeing this 10 years ago as much.
[767] Right.
[768] Well, and then it's just a bigger debate of whether or not you think everyone has a right to be living everywhere they'd like to be yes yeah but i mean our cars have been towed for parking past three o 'clock on my street you've driven me a couple times to yeah my car's been towed it's probably so hard to tow them as well right because they're so big like it's easy to tow a car you need a wrecker and then the things disintegrating as you tow it so you need a cleanup crew behind the thing they just don't think it's worth it i just think we're in a city of nine million or whatever it is and there's murderers and there's rapists and there's thieves and the, you know, how far down the list of priority and importance is the motorhomes in front of my house.
[769] And by the way, I got to be clear.
[770] His notion that you're not going to, no millionaire wants to see someone barbecue.
[771] That's actually for me not it.
[772] It's, there's three super high dudes in each one.
[773] And I would like it for my kids to be able to walk outside of the house at 10 years old.
[774] So, you know, we're bumping into like their rights versus my kids' rights versus my rights.
[775] A hundred percent.
[776] Yeah.
[777] I feel something.
[778] walking past some of those at night, a little bit like, I'm going to take my AirPods out and just be, like, aware of what's going on.
[779] I think it's okay for us to, as a civilization in a society, have cities we're proud of and we maintain and we keep beautiful and we attract new people to.
[780] And we can't just turn every space over to each person who has zero regard for the space and say, that's what we got to do.
[781] Yeah, the big fix is figuring out exactly what to do with those people and how to look after them.
[782] The only side of the equation being approached is the end of the blah, la line.
[783] There's nothing upstream.
[784] It's way too late at that point.
[785] And I don't know how, I mean, yeah, I look around the states and it's like everyone's looking around and no one can solve it yet, right?
[786] It's just too big of a problem.
[787] If I bump into this guy again, I'll try and I really wanted to get him.
[788] He had a certain speaking style that I really wanted to capture, but he just really wouldn't let me even begin to record.
[789] But did that really interesting thing that some people do when they say, I don't.
[790] don't want to be interviewed because I said I'm working on a podcast I'm making a show about RVs when they say they don't want to be interviewed but they still really want to talk to you so you talk to me for so long oh wow this is just this was in your recent webworm newsletter which is a tip in descending order emails the worst voicemails good but talk to people get in front of people yeah if you want someone to talk they can't resist yeah totally people want to talk and even this guy the whole time was being like I don't want to talk about this I don't want to talk about us.
[791] But see that I've been out there?
[792] I got it for free.
[793] People are so funny.
[794] Part of this show is learning about David and we learned something.
[795] We went to get wings, David's favorite food.
[796] He's non -confrontational.
[797] He doesn't want to disturb anything or ask for anything, really.
[798] But when it's under the guise of work, when it's like for a doc and for the podcast, he'll do anything.
[799] He'll talk to anyone.
[800] And I just found that very interesting.
[801] He can get into a character where he can poke and be a rascal.
[802] Yeah, it's a little persona.
[803] Yeah, I don't want to, if the food's not good or I would never say something confrontational to anyone, be in a work sense.
[804] If I want to be a bit brattie for a documentary or my little Webber newsletter of the show, I love poking people because it's kind of fun.
[805] Yeah, you're a provocateur in a way.
[806] Yeah, you know, you're a poke, poke, poke.
[807] It's a different thing.
[808] It's kind of fun when it's for something.
[809] When it's just your life, it's not for something, then I don't want to.
[810] and antagonize anyone.
[811] I just want to go through peacefully.
[812] You don't value your own comfort or pleasure or whatever it may be.
[813] You spent $18 on wings and they're undercooked.
[814] You as the individual don't deserve to make waves.
[815] But if it's in the name of the masses, you find a courage.
[816] Yeah, that's exactly it.
[817] Yeah.
[818] If it's just for me, there's not enough in it to create any kind of drama.
[819] But if I feel like I'm talking on behalf of someone who's worse off or something, that gives me the goal to do it or something i don't know because i'm a nice person it's just like an excuse but i would argue i don't know it shouldn't be either or so you should get what you paid for they made a promise that they're going to serve food that's prepared for this price you deserve that's wings in america it says it on the sign for the record those wings were good they are really good they are good i took us for good wings right you did they were really good and good mozzarella sticks oh we find outlets to explore There are different pieces of our personality.
[820] You've probably been nurtured to not have conflict.
[821] I mean, New Zealand.
[822] Yeah.
[823] So that's all ingrained.
[824] But there's a major part of you that is a rascal like Rob.
[825] Oh, yeah.
[826] Part of the reason I wanted to get more into a documentary was it was an excuse.
[827] You can roam around in people's houses, which is great.
[828] You can just like arrive with your camera and set up.
[829] And it's just given free reign, which is very funny to me. And you can antagonize people.
[830] And it's sort of part of it all.
[831] And that's kind of fun.
[832] It's fun seeing what people do and how they react.
[833] It feels like a safe, even though it's not.
[834] A justified.
[835] It feels like a justified safe way.
[836] Yeah, exactly.
[837] My massages.
[838] Yeah.
[839] Safe way to get touched.
[840] Yes.
[841] I love that.
[842] That's yet another appeal of Arvine is you're a new person in a new place every time you arrive.
[843] So you can really be anyone.
[844] It's a fresh start every day.
[845] Yeah.
[846] Yeah.
[847] I really love that.
[848] Maybe you and your wife are swingers when you go to Nebraska in a motorhome.
[849] Who knows what you are where you and try it all on.
[850] Oh, this was fascinating and took turns, twisty turns that I enjoyed.
[851] Could be swippy.
[852] More American and less American.
[853] More.
[854] RVs are very American.
[855] Oh, they are.
[856] They are.
[857] I also don't support people doing drugs in front of your kids outside the front of the house.
[858] Yeah, unless it's weed or shrooms.
[859] I can live with that.
[860] Then it's cool.
[861] Kill.
[862] Love you, David.
[863] Thanks, guys.