Zoë Kravitz

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] Hi.

[3] And I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

[4] Hello.

[5] How you doing, bud?

[6] Great sweatsuit.

[7] What color do we call that?

[8] It's called terracotta.

[9] Oh, my goodness.

[10] It's called terracotta.

[11] It's from the brand Pangaya.

[12] They're not a sponsor, but I will give them a lot of love because I've been wearing these exclusively throughout quarantine.

[13] Yes, you've only been in them, right?

[14] That's correct.

[15] Well, our guest today was not in a sweatsuit.

[16] That we know of.

[17] That we know of.

[18] Well, we saw her, I guess.

[19] We saw her top, but her bottoms could have been sweaty.

[20] That's true.

[21] That's true.

[22] Zoe Kravitz, who's an American actress, singer and model.

[23] You know we're from Divergent, Mad Max, fantastic beasts, big little lies.

[24] And currently in high fidelity on Hulu, which is a fantastic show.

[25] And then, of course, she's going to be in the upcoming Batman, which we talk about.

[26] We sure do.

[27] Please enjoy Zoe Kravitz.

[28] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[29] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[30] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[31] He's an armchair expert.

[32] He's an upchair expert.

[33] First of all, do you have a new cute hairdo?

[34] Kind of new.

[35] Kind of new.

[36] It's been like this for like a couple months.

[37] like since January.

[38] What preceded it?

[39] Batman.

[40] I did it for Batman.

[41] Oh, uh -huh, uh -huh.

[42] I'm glad you're saying Batman and not the Batman.

[43] Can I just air a personal grievance?

[44] I don't like when they say the Batman.

[45] I think it's a strong title.

[46] The Batman?

[47] But I don't think we have to say the Batman whenever we say it.

[48] Do you remember, I guess, maybe three of those ago, Sillian Murphy is that his name?

[49] Yeah, Killian, Sillian, Sillian?

[50] I don't know.

[51] Sillian.

[52] It's spelled with the C, so it's spelled with the C, so it's.

[53] very confusing.

[54] Got it.

[55] I feel like you probably speak French and stuff.

[56] Do you, are you multi -lingual?

[57] Oh, I love that you think I speak French.

[58] No. No. Oh, okay.

[59] Okay, good.

[60] Okay, so Killian Murphy.

[61] There was a moment in one of the Batmans where he goes, bring me the Batman.

[62] And I was like, the Batman.

[63] Wait, did he really say Batman?

[64] Well, yeah, I believe so.

[65] Like Peterman?

[66] Yeah, it was a real, there was a swallowing of certain vowels and an accentuating of ones that didn't exist.

[67] But the point is, is the Batman.

[68] Just Batman.

[69] Get me Batman.

[70] Now, where do you land on this?

[71] I do like, when I think of the Batman, I think of Heath Ledger saying the Batman.

[72] And I do like that.

[73] I like the Batman.

[74] I'm into it.

[75] I think it feels kind of like simple and yet epic.

[76] Okay, good, good.

[77] I'm standing by it.

[78] Strong.

[79] Okay, so I'm just taking in some clues.

[80] One of them is the tattoos on your arm, which I noticed extensively in high fidelity last night.

[81] Either you're still in makeup or those are yours.

[82] They're all mine.

[83] All the tattoos and the only one that's not mine is.

[84] Oh, the dude's name you got tattooed on you.

[85] Justin.

[86] And now did you have the conversation with them?

[87] Because I have done this, but it's out of pure laziness, which is if I'm going to be in a TV show, which I'm currently on, I'm like, I cannot do an hour extra every day of getting these things covered.

[88] So you're just going to have to embrace them.

[89] So what was yours motivated out of?

[90] I mean, I think I always try and think of the character first.

[91] So in most situations, I've covered them.

[92] On big little lies, I covered most of them.

[93] Uh -huh.

[94] In the Batman, I'm covering my tattoos in the Batman.

[95] But yeah, in High Fidelity, it just felt like I was kind of playing someone so close to me that I would fully believe that she had tattoos.

[96] The funny thing is, is that High Fidelity is the first time I've been able to play anyone remotely close to who I am, which is funny, because people think that I do things like speak French.

[97] Well, right.

[98] Well, I know little bits and pieces about you.

[99] And then, of course, I read about you.

[100] And then I learned that you got married in Paris.

[101] So I was like, I don't know.

[102] Your old man has a place there.

[103] Yeah.

[104] And so maybe you spend an inordinate amount of time there.

[105] And maybe you picked it up because you have a flare for that.

[106] I wish that was my story.

[107] I wish that was the story.

[108] But my dad has a house there.

[109] And I have spent time there.

[110] But to be honest, I usually just go to see my dad and end up kind of like not even leaving the house that much, which is whole.

[111] We go to Paris a lot and stay in the house, which is so sad because it's the most beautiful city.

[112] We realize after a week, we're like, we haven't left the house.

[113] We have to go somewhere.

[114] And you're currently in what appears to be a hunting cabin.

[115] Is that fair to say?

[116] This house is like a ship.

[117] So, yeah, I've been renting this house in London.

[118] We were shooting the Batman, and now we're not shooting the Batman anymore because of COVID, but we're here still.

[119] The COVID?

[120] The COVID.

[121] Yeah, this is the COVID.

[122] So, yeah, we're in a very cute little cabiny house in Notting Hill.

[123] It looks like I'm in the woods.

[124] Yeah, but knowing that you're...

[125] By the way, I'm going to take a stab at the interior of the Topanga Canyon home.

[126] Did it resemble this at all?

[127] It's round.

[128] My mom's house, it's round.

[129] You know what?

[130] I think I know that for...

[131] I feel like I've stalked you.

[132] Okay.

[133] Oh, boy.

[134] These are all accidental things.

[135] So...

[136] I know you love my mother.

[137] I know about it.

[138] about this.

[139] Oh, well, do you remember how I'm very?

[140] I don't know if you remember this.

[141] I'll remember for life.

[142] Is it at Vanity Fair?

[143] Yeah.

[144] Wait, I don't want to hear her version.

[145] Yeah, that's a good idea.

[146] No, no, no, no. No, let's tell the real version because I don't think I fully did know what was going on.

[147] And I don't think it could be, have been as impactful for her as it was for myself.

[148] So it all started at, I think, the Independent Spirit Awards or something, where you were, you were on stage.

[149] Okay.

[150] And so what happened was my wife and I are watching and I go, that's Zoe Kravitz.

[151] And she goes, yeah.

[152] And I said, well, my prediction came true that those two, what I have always historically for now 45 years have said, the most beautiful two humans to ever live on planet Earth were your mother and of course your father.

[153] And so I thought, when they have a child, this thing has to just be the most aesthetically pleasing creature to ever live.

[154] And then you strolled out on stage and I said to Kristen, by God, my prediction was accurate.

[155] She's the most stunning human I've ever looked at.

[156] And Kristen goes, I know.

[157] It makes your eyes feel good to stare at her.

[158] Oh, my God.

[159] I'm blushing.

[160] And I said something on the order of you're the prettiest person we've ever seen in real life.

[161] Cut to, we now see your mom.

[162] And now I'm going back because now your mom's been my number one since I was like, I don't know, nine, 10 years old.

[163] So we meet her.

[164] And then my wife, thank God, she's helping make it not feel insanely weird that I'm saying this to your mom.

[165] But I'm like you're just you're the number one of all time i don't think there's ever been a person prettier on planet earth and then you walk up at the exact perfect moment and you say you just said that to me oh good for calling good job oh that's so funny i'm so proud of you for calling him yeah so i felt completely fraudulent and truthful it was conflicting i stand by both statements yet obviously they both can't exist in the same time you love I've seen you say that to one more person.

[166] There would have been...

[167] I'm like, dude, Dax, you have to chill with this line.

[168] I remember you guys coming up and being very sweet and shatty and me and my mom walking away going, they were so nice and cool.

[169] Like, you guys felt like a very fun unit.

[170] Okay, great.

[171] That's a good feedback.

[172] Now, what happened was at some point, there was a dance floor.

[173] And I love to dance.

[174] And so my wife says, you want to dance with Lisa, don't you?

[175] And I said, I would really like that.

[176] And she said, you should ask her.

[177] And then I asked your mother.

[178] And then your mother and I fucking cut a goddamn rug for, I'm going to say upwards of 45 minutes.

[179] She can dance.

[180] Oh, rhythm exuding, just seeping out of the pores.

[181] She's a 10 on the soul spectrum, so I'm not surprised.

[182] Oh, no. What's happening here?

[183] You hate that.

[184] You've stumbled into another.

[185] Do you know the actress Joy Bryant?

[186] Yes.

[187] Okay, so Joy and I were married on television for six years together, and we created this thing called the Soul Spectrum, and we rate people.

[188] Bill Murray being one of them.

[189] I put Bill Murray in the 9 -10, like Sam Jackson Territory.

[190] He's very, very high.

[191] Yes, I agree.

[192] Danny McBride, I think, is real high on that soul spectrum.

[193] Christopher Walken.

[194] Okay, yes, very, very interesting choice.

[195] Sam Rockwell.

[196] Oh.

[197] I like that.

[198] Big time, big time.

[199] Very high in the soul, yeah.

[200] Yes, so your mom is basically a perfect 10.

[201] Soul Spectrum, yeah.

[202] I have one other really embarrassing memory I want to share with you.

[203] This is great.

[204] So I'm equally obsessed with your stepdad, Jason.

[205] I just love his physique.

[206] Oh.

[207] I love his physique so much, Zoe, and his hair and the whole thing.

[208] I just love it.

[209] I love it.

[210] Gone is Caldrogo many times a Halloween.

[211] Point is we go to the Game of Thrones, like, premiere.

[212] I don't know what season, maybe six or something.

[213] I wear a tank top that says, Stark's in the streets, wild lean in the sheets.

[214] That's my tank.

[215] I've also got about 50 tattoos I've ordered off the internet on my body that are Game of Thrones themed tattoos.

[216] And then I'm with Kristen who's dressed the exact same way.

[217] So I'm feeling very confident.

[218] Same tank top.

[219] Same tank top, same tattoos.

[220] And I'm feeling super confident.

[221] Like, oh, we're killing this premiere.

[222] But I get separated from Kristen at some point.

[223] And then I bump into your mom.

[224] And it's our first run -in since our dance party.

[225] This interview sucks.

[226] Are you getting mad yet?

[227] I'm loving it.

[228] I'm person.

[229] This is all, like, this is the most human.

[230] interaction hasn't so long, and I'm really, really enjoyed it.

[231] Okay, good.

[232] So I bump into your mother.

[233] I completely forget how I look.

[234] I'm just so excited to see her.

[235] And then I just kind of feel that she's giving me a once over.

[236] And all of a sudden, all at once I realize what I look like, that I look insane.

[237] And I panic and I go, oh, I'm not drunk.

[238] Honey, honey, and I start panicked, screaming for Kristen, so she'll join me so your mother doesn't think I'm a complete lunatic.

[239] And then Kristen's busy.

[240] She's doing something, but she comes to, yeah, what is it?

[241] I just wanted her to see I'm not the only part.

[242] Okay.

[243] And that was it.

[244] I doubt your mom remembers any of the whole.

[245] I bet she does.

[246] I'm going to ask.

[247] I can totally see her looking you up and down, too, because my mom, she's like, she's just not very good at faking it.

[248] Like, she's very, um, honest.

[249] She's a 10 on the soul spectrum, but she is like a zero on the bullshit spectrum.

[250] She just, she can't do it.

[251] Those go hand in hand, I think.

[252] I agree.

[253] I think you're right.

[254] I think you're right.

[255] There's a inverse coefficient.

[256] Exactly.

[257] God damn it, Monica.

[258] Okay.

[259] You and Monica are, the reason I ask is because anyone who likes the show came for me and stayed for Monica, okay?

[260] I'm just the second fiddle.

[261] So I just want to set that up.

[262] Secondly, Monica is four months older than you and she's never older than a guest.

[263] Yeah.

[264] This is a lot.

[265] It hurts my feelings a little bit, but it's okay.

[266] It's okay.

[267] Four months.

[268] Four months.

[269] I know, I know.

[270] We're basically twins.

[271] You can do a lot of aging in four months, a lot of aging.

[272] By the time this whole thing's over, yes, I believe that.

[273] I'm going to look like a different person.

[274] My neck does have some substantially more wrinkles than Zoe's.

[275] My prediction is you will emerge from isolation at the age Monica entered.

[276] Oh, boy.

[277] Do the math.

[278] Dex loves fast math.

[279] Even if it doesn't make any sense.

[280] My prediction is a four -month quarantine.

[281] So you'll basically leave quarantine.

[282] age Monica entered.

[283] How long have you all been doing it in England?

[284] Well, we started before they did it in England.

[285] The minute we heard it was happening in America and what was going on and the movie shut down, we quarantine ourselves.

[286] I'm sure you're experiencing waves.

[287] We are, right?

[288] Where it's like, this is euphoric.

[289] I needed a break.

[290] I love it.

[291] I'm seeing my kids a lot.

[292] And then I hate this house.

[293] I hate everything.

[294] So I just wonder how it would be compounded being in another country.

[295] Like, do you feel like that's a layer?

[296] You know, it's weird being away from your home.

[297] But, you know, we do feel really comfortable here.

[298] America is a little scary right now and the president and just the energy feels a little gnarly I feel.

[299] So there's something actually kind of nice being removed from that.

[300] People are very calm here.

[301] Yeah.

[302] So there's something comforting about that.

[303] I'm not tempted to see anyone because I'm away from home anyway.

[304] So that's kind of nice too.

[305] Yeah.

[306] But you're right.

[307] I went straight to England when this first started, which was just thinking like, oh man, we're all panicking that we got to stay inside and stay six feet apart.

[308] And they just had bombs raining down on their city for months and months.

[309] And the fact that they all just carried on with their lives, I feel like you're with the perfect group of people to.

[310] Yeah, it's carry on is exactly the phrasing.

[311] But I think they are starting to take it a little bit more seriously in terms of the social distancing, which is great.

[312] Uh -huh.

[313] But even though they're realizing how serious it is they're still very calm like the there's no kind of anarchy feeling you know i feel like new york Brooklyn feels like post -apocalyptic there's certainly some people screaming at the top of their lungs it feels like that anyway in new york so that's true i mean also you know when the whole thing started going down and they were talking about closing borders you know everyone was panicking and so many of my friends called me and said you know you have to get on a plane right now they're going to close the borders and me and my husband started panicking too and we're like okay we have to pack up this house and what are we going to do?

[314] And then we were like, why are we going to America just to be in America?

[315] Like, let's just stay where we are and not go to an airport and not be around people.

[316] And we realized we didn't even know why we were scrambling to get back into the country.

[317] Yeah.

[318] Okay, but you, long ago, you were a little tiny baby in 1988.

[319] Yes.

[320] You were a Christmas baby.

[321] Yes.

[322] Mom and day got divorced at five.

[323] Two, right?

[324] A two?

[325] I was two.

[326] Okay, I'm going to sue Wikipedia, but you don't need to be troubled with that.

[327] But I will have a...

[328] The truth is actually, I don't know when their divorce was finalized, but they split when I was two.

[329] I got you.

[330] Okay.

[331] It's funny because you see pictures and stuff and you kind of, as you get older, confuse that with things that you remember.

[332] But I don't think I actually have any real memories of them as a couple.

[333] Yeah.

[334] I just made that discovery, by the way, the other day.

[335] My dad died a few years ago, and I got some of his photo albums, and I realized many of my memories were not memories.

[336] They were memories of the photos I had seen.

[337] It's crazy.

[338] And especially now that we have, you know, social media and stuff, and we're constantly looking at photos nonstop.

[339] It's like, it really does become hard to know what's memory and what's an image.

[340] It's interesting.

[341] Yeah.

[342] So, but you lived with mom from 0 to 11?

[343] Yeah.

[344] So I was born.

[345] My parents had me in Venice Beach.

[346] And then they lived together in New York for a few years.

[347] And then we moved back to L .A. And me and my mom moved to Topanga when I was like four or five.

[348] But when you were little, did you recognize that mom and dad were famous?

[349] You know, my mom less so, actually, because by that time, the Cosby Show was, you know, it replayed and stuff.

[350] But it wasn't the sensation that it was in the 80s.

[351] And I grew up with that television.

[352] Oh, right.

[353] So I didn't have TV.

[354] So I didn't see reruns really until I was much older.

[355] And when I did see reruns, it was because my aunt had.

[356] taped on the BHS's of all the episodes, and I ended up watching them.

[357] And we lived, you know, we lived in Depanga.

[358] We lived far away from everything.

[359] And that was like a different part of her life that she kind of didn't bring with her.

[360] And my dad at that same time was the biggest he ever was, you know, fly away.

[361] Right.

[362] You know, came out, an American woman, all that stuff.

[363] He was on the radio.

[364] I lived with my mom, and he would go on tour, and he would come into town, which was really exciting for me, and he'd come pick me up.

[365] And I was really excited just because my dad, dad, who I never see was in town, you know, and he wasn't subtle, you know, he would come in like a, he had a viper, he had like a sports car, like a leather pants and a viper.

[366] Yeah, a viper, leather pants, and like a netted shirt, like with a literal boa.

[367] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[368] No, but he would come pick me up and look like that, but then also people, so people would get when that he was there.

[369] And I remember one day going to the parking lot to get picked up by my father and the whole school was there.

[370] And it was so embarrassing.

[371] And then I think that's when I realized, you know, something was up.

[372] Something's going on.

[373] And then flyaway came out and, like, I'd walk down the hallway at school and kids would, like, sing it at me in a weird way.

[374] Oh, boy, oh, boy, boy.

[375] Did you go to school in Topanga?

[376] Because for people who don't live in L .A., they don't realize, like, Topanga Canyon's in L .A., but it's like being in the backwoods of Tennessee.

[377] It is so, it's the most removed enclave of L .A. It's in the little canyon in the mountains.

[378] Yeah, it took me about 45 minutes to get to school.

[379] I went to school in the Valley.

[380] I went to the Rudolph Steiner to the Waldorf School called Highland Hall.

[381] Okay.

[382] And now here's what's confusing for most people who have no association with this.

[383] So I think, I think most people would think, oh, my God, if all the kids in school thought my dad was awesome, I would like it.

[384] But now having experience it myself, it's probably just a shitload of attention that doesn't feel comfortable for anyone, especially at that age, I would imagine.

[385] I mean, I think as a kid, all you want to do is almost disappear.

[386] You want to fit in, you don't want to be different on either end of any spectrum, right?

[387] So it's just about, like, being able to get into school without anyone looking at you, whether it's like, your hair is weird or your face is weird, your clothes are weird, or you're too rich, or you're too poor.

[388] You just, like, don't want to be noticed because you don't know what the fuck is going on.

[389] Yeah, yeah.

[390] Anything unique could equal exclusion, probably.

[391] Yeah.

[392] And so, okay, another side note that has nothing to do with either of us, but I would see your mother occasionally at Kukaru.

[393] I lived in Santa Monica.

[394] Oh my God, she would take me to Cuckoo.

[395] I have like a memory of Cuckaroo.

[396] Like, we'd all the time.

[397] It's my favorite.

[398] I can't believe they don't exist anymore.

[399] I used to see your mom there.

[400] Not all the time, but I bet three or four times.

[401] It was there.

[402] It was a spot.

[403] We were like, we'd go to Cuckaroo.

[404] And I thought, because I was in my 20s and I was like, I knew it, man. We're soulmates.

[405] Like, we're both fucking, we can't stay away from Cuckaroo.

[406] Look at us.

[407] Cuckaroo had this, like, bomb chicken.

[408] that had like this tangy orange sauce on it.

[409] Do you know what I'm talking about?

[410] Yes, it was vaguely barbecue, but it didn't taste like...

[411] Yes, but it had like a tangy thing, like a citrusy thing to it.

[412] A lot of flavor profiles.

[413] Woo!

[414] Yeah.

[415] Cougaroo.

[416] Oh, it's so funny.

[417] Yeah.

[418] My girlfriend, Breene, I used to go there and we were on Atkins diet.

[419] We would put the bread in our mouth and just chew it a couple times.

[420] And spit it out.

[421] And then just take it and put it back on the plate.

[422] That's so dark.

[423] It is.

[424] It is not advisable.

[425] And it was like 20.

[426] Three, why was I so worried?

[427] Okay, but what's interesting is that you're actually a third generation performer.

[428] Yeah.

[429] And that grandma on your dad's side, right?

[430] Yes.

[431] Was on the Jeffersons.

[432] Yes.

[433] She's legendary.

[434] She's only the first interracial couple in primetime television.

[435] Yeah, Roxy Roker, sweet stories.

[436] When they were casting the Jeffersons and they told her they were going to have a biracial couple and that was a big deal.

[437] At the time, and, you know, she auditioned, and I think they loved her, and they wanted to say, you know, just so you know, we're doing something crazy, you know, you're going to have a white husband.

[438] And she pulled out a picture of my grandfather who was white and said, well, that works out.

[439] You know, and I think that was part of the reason they were like, oh, she's perfect, but I love that story.

[440] I've been practicing.

[441] I've been practicing for this.

[442] And then same configuration, right?

[443] So then mom also, mom's parents are black and white, both Jewish and black.

[444] both sides?

[445] Yep.

[446] Yeah, my mother's mother, Arlene, is white.

[447] She is a Russian Jew and her father is African American.

[448] Do you tire of people's interest in that?

[449] No, I think it's cool.

[450] I think the part that gets funny is like because both my parents have brown skin, people get really confused and they're like, how are you mixed or how are we don't understand?

[451] And I think I recently said something on Instagram about being mixed and some person comment.

[452] like, why are you so ashamed of who you are?

[453] Your parents are both black.

[454] I'm just like, oh, my God.

[455] Yeah, you can't win.

[456] Do five seconds of research before you say that.

[457] Also that they think they know more than you about your own history and heritage.

[458] It's crazy.

[459] And your relationship with it, whether it's shame -filled or not.

[460] There's so many things that are counterintuitive.

[461] So Monica and I've talked about this a bunch.

[462] Monica constantly was asked, where are you from?

[463] Well, this bitch is from Atlanta, Georgia.

[464] But that's not what they meant, of course.

[465] And understandably hearing it from her perspective, how fucking annoying.

[466] Also the redundancy and the predictability.

[467] Oh, here comes that question.

[468] Where are you from?

[469] Atlanta.

[470] No, but where are you from?

[471] I'm from Atlanta.

[472] Like, what are you?

[473] Yeah, exactly.

[474] And it's almost like just ask me what you want to ask because then you don't really know how to answer and you answer it correctly.

[475] And they're like, but no, I mean, you know, it just becomes a whole thing.

[476] Yeah.

[477] Where are you from from?

[478] Yeah.

[479] But for me, as a vanilla.

[480] Heinz 57 white dude, I'm like, oh my God, the notion that women would be curious about my ethnicity sounds awesome.

[481] Like, yeah, any fucking question you have for me, I'm going to enjoy because I just want your attention.

[482] So, you know, previously I think I probably would have been like, oh, I'd love people asking me what my mix is, just because I want to talk about myself and you seem to be interested in me. But I recognize it can be laborious and redundant.

[483] I think it depends on also, you know, I don't know when you were a kid it was probably different for me like what we were just talking about you know when you're young again you just want to fit in so people kind of trying to figure you out can make you feel really uncomfortable you know I had so many like specifically about my hair you know like brown girls in their hair and white kids coming up and asking like why does your hair look like that or can I touch it and of course the you know kids they don't they don't know what they're doing but it just highlights your differences yeah it's the opposite of what you want at that age yeah now so given that Grandma was on television and then mom and dad are on television or on stages.

[484] Did it then seem natural for you that like, oh, I'll pursue this?

[485] Or did it feel like a family business?

[486] Did you feel like, oh, fuck, I can't do this because it's not original because everyone else did it?

[487] Like, what were, what did you wrestle with to decide I'm going to do this as well?

[488] You know, by the time I had to actually think about performing as a career, I had been doing it for so long.

[489] Not even, not professionally, but just it was so who I was that it wasn't really.

[490] a question.

[491] You know, when I was a kid, I would perform for my grandparents.

[492] I'd put on shows.

[493] I would sing somewhere over the rainbow.

[494] I loved watching cabaret.

[495] I loved musicals.

[496] And, you know, I was an average student.

[497] I was a C student.

[498] But I was in drama club and I would perform in every play we did.

[499] So by the time, it was time to graduate, it was really the only thing I knew how to do.

[500] I did look into John Jay College of Criminal Psychology because I was really interested in the minds of criminals.

[501] But I think that also ended up being a part of why I loved acting too.

[502] I kind of figured out how those two came together.

[503] I love murder shows.

[504] Yes, us too.

[505] We just watched the best date line two nights ago.

[506] Do you like dateline?

[507] Yeah, I do.

[508] What was it?

[509] It was a woman who abducted another guy's girlfriend assumed her identity for three years was fucking with the family making them think she was still alive and on a bipolar swing.

[510] Like emailing her?

[511] Okay, well.

[512] Emaling, Facebooking, the whole nine.

[513] Oh, it was.

[514] It was crazy.

[515] It was, we had three years.

[516] Three years.

[517] And we thought it was like three different people throughout.

[518] Like it was a real, it was a ride.

[519] It was like scary and turning.

[520] I love it.

[521] So at 11, you hear the call of the wild.

[522] Is that what happens?

[523] Or is it just that you miss dad?

[524] Are you like, get me the fuck out of Topanga Canyon.

[525] What am I doing in the dirt?

[526] I think it was a combination of a lot of things.

[527] So when I was 11, my mother was.

[528] going through a really hard time.

[529] She was dealing with some health stuff and she lost her mother.

[530] Oh, okay.

[531] And I think I, like, I didn't know how to deal with her sadness.

[532] And so it was me and my mom in Topanga in the middle of nowhere.

[533] I'm not allowed to eat cheese.

[534] I'm not allowed to eat sugar.

[535] I'm not allowed to watch TV.

[536] You know?

[537] And then there's my dad and I go to see him for a couple days and there's like fucking TVs in every room and there's Pop -Tarts and there's people everywhere all the time.

[538] And it's just like these two opposite worlds.

[539] And as a kid, you're just like, uh, that one.

[540] Uh -huh.

[541] It's so funny because looking back, I'm like, thank God for the time I did have with my mother because that's the experience that makes you kind of, you know, I think a deeper person and an artist and connected to nature.

[542] That's the foundation.

[543] Yeah, exactly.

[544] So my dad asked if I wanted to live with him.

[545] And it was really exciting.

[546] And I also, you know, I wanted to spend more time with him.

[547] And I would only see him for a couple weeks here and there.

[548] And I thought, you know, I felt like I wanted to.

[549] to just get to know him better and, yeah, eat Pop -Darts all the time.

[550] So that's what I did.

[551] And then just culturally, too, Miami is so different from L .A. in general and then even more different from Topanga.

[552] Yeah, it was a crazy shift.

[553] And I ended up not liking mine very much.

[554] It was funny.

[555] Like, I had that experience.

[556] And then when I was 15, demanded that we move to New York, where I went back to a Waldorf school, which is where my mom put me, and kind of returned to.

[557] to my more wholesome, holistic things.

[558] Yeah, and for people don't know about Waldorf, my limited understanding of it is like, the kids play with wooden blocks.

[559] It's very tactile, right?

[560] They're working on social dynamics as much as anything that...

[561] Academically.

[562] Is this...

[563] Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

[564] So Waldorf is a philosophy that was created by Rudolf Steiner, and the classes are all very small.

[565] The lessons happen through conversation as opposed to lecture, you make your own textbooks by writing things down and actually like making a book.

[566] So it's also about kind of physically using your hands and you learn how to knit and crochet and draw.

[567] And then you also learn reading and writing and arithmetic and stuff.

[568] Now at the right page of 32, looking back, preferable?

[569] Oh, yeah.

[570] I'm super.

[571] I'm so, I think I'm 31.

[572] Yeah, she was in 88.

[573] Yeah, she's not four months.

[574] She's much younger than that.

[575] I was like, I think that's how old I am.

[576] But I've been in quarantine for so long.

[577] You could tell me, too.

[578] I could believe you.

[579] Oh, no. This is a big failure of fast math.

[580] This is as scary as the dateline episode.

[581] It was, this might be the first real big failure of fast math.

[582] Yeah.

[583] Fast math is a segment I do nonstop on this show.

[584] And generally I'm good at it, but boy, did I shit the bet on this one?

[585] Oh, no, I'm sorry.

[586] Okay.

[587] So from the 31 -year -old.

[588] vantage point.

[589] Yes, I'm incredibly grateful to have gone to those schools and I made amazing friends there who I'm still in touch with, you know, just it was an incredibly creative environment and I knew I loved performing but I think also just being tapped into your creative psyche in that way that age creates a different kind of artist.

[590] And if you discovered any like gaping blind spots or holes in your like you'll be talking to somebody and go like oh we never even covered geography or anything like that?

[591] I'm not great at math, and it took me a while.

[592] My dad took me out of the school, the first school, because I was, I don't know how old, but I couldn't read yet the way I should.

[593] And we later discovered that I'm dyslexic, and that was a big part of it.

[594] He panicked and was like, you need to go learn how to read.

[595] I am too.

[596] We're dyslexic siblings, yeah.

[597] And do you find that you can retain oral information really, like, abnormally well, that you had compensated for that by getting...

[598] Yeah, I mean, I have a really good memory.

[599] Like, I can remember my dialogue like that.

[600] I can remember song, lyrics, all of that.

[601] My thing is just, like, with numbers.

[602] I can't remember numbers.

[603] Like, if my hotel room is, like, 1 -1 -2 or something, I cannot remember.

[604] And I have to read really slowly.

[605] And also, if I'm writing down numbers, I always, like, flip the first two, always.

[606] Right.

[607] Right.

[608] Can I give you my hack?

[609] So when I check into my hotel room, boom, take a picture of it on my phone.

[610] Do you do that?

[611] Yeah, I do do that now.

[612] I do do that now.

[613] It's great.

[614] But for the longest time, I was just like, why can't I, it's three numbers.

[615] Why?

[616] Why can't I know it?

[617] Yeah.

[618] Also, parking garage.

[619] I'm going to just bang a picture.

[620] Drop a pin.

[621] Oh, drop a pin.

[622] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[623] It's very 2020 to drop a pin.

[624] Oh, stop the clock.

[625] Okay.

[626] Wow.

[627] Wow.

[628] So I just, I got a hack on top of it.

[629] a hack.

[630] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[631] We've all been there.

[632] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[633] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[634] like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[635] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[636] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[637] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[638] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[639] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[640] What's up, guys?

[641] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[642] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[643] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[644] And I don't mean just friends.

[645] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[646] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[647] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[648] Now, Miami, yeah, culturally, and again, these are all stereotypes.

[649] I've never lived in Miami.

[650] I've only visited for work, but I've got to imagine, you went to some Miami Day.

[651] Miami Country Day.

[652] Miami Country Day, thank you.

[653] Were the other children in there like Hulk Hogan's kids?

[654] Wait, actually, I'm like, actually, maybe.

[655] I think maybe.

[656] They think maybe.

[657] That's hilarious.

[658] Yeah, I think so.

[659] Okay.

[660] Yeah, the vibe was weird.

[661] It was very, and again, it was very, and again, It was like I had this desire for like this normal life.

[662] You know, I went to like this weird hippie school and like couldn't eat whatever.

[663] And now I go to this place in Miami and it's like there's cheerleaders.

[664] There's football teams.

[665] There's like cliques and it's like this thing.

[666] Totally.

[667] I mean, don't even.

[668] What the girls were doing at our age was like scary.

[669] These kids are going up too fast.

[670] Drugs.

[671] Drug, sex.

[672] All of it.

[673] All of it.

[674] But you're so young.

[675] Oh, it makes me sad to think about.

[676] Yeah.

[677] I mean, there's this whole, you know, there's a lot.

[678] Rap music and, like, wearing shorts that are, like, way up your ass.

[679] But it's like, you look back and I'm like, you're 15, bro.

[680] Like, no. Yeah.

[681] There's a few times where I came back for Christmas break or whatever.

[682] And I'd come back in some, like, tight Brazilian jeans and, like, my eyebrows were gone.

[683] And my mom was like, you fucking kidding me?

[684] Yeah, your mom must have been panicked when you would return.

[685] I mean, total opposite of what she was crafting for you.

[686] And I come back again, like, with like no eyebrows and like weird makeup on and like a cell phone and like jeans that are like way too tight and way too low.

[687] I had these jeans that had like a cat painted on the butt.

[688] Sure.

[689] And my mom was just like, no, dude, no. Okay, so you ended up in New York and then you returned to a Waldorf thing and then things were honky dory.

[690] And then you went for a year to college and you studied acting for that year.

[691] Is that correct?

[692] Yeah, you know, I feel like I was enjoying high school so much actually, which I know a lot of people don't relate to, but I really was.

[693] That all of a sudden, you know, school was ending, and I hadn't really thought about college that much.

[694] And Sunni Purchase had a person come into school and kind of tell us about the programs they had there and the acting program sounded interesting.

[695] And I kind of threw it together pretty fast because, again, I wasn't really planning on going to college.

[696] What aspect were you loving about high school?

[697] And this was in New York City, right?

[698] This is in New York.

[699] So I just had this amazing group of friends.

[700] We were really, really close.

[701] because it was this, you know, wonderful small Waldorf school, there wasn't really any clicks.

[702] And it was just like, so there wasn't a lot of drama and that kind of a thing.

[703] It was just like this good group of kids, all, you know, artistic in some way.

[704] It was like this wonderful collection of people.

[705] And we were just buds and we were just like, we would make music and sing and smoke weed and, like, hang out in the park.

[706] And it was just like a really fun time.

[707] And I think also as a kid, when you're living in New York, you're free very early.

[708] You don't need a car, you know?

[709] You just kind of like jump on the train and like, go hang out on stoops.

[710] And it was just, it was such a fun time.

[711] And kids grow up faster there, too, just because of the environment.

[712] What was the drug lecture you got?

[713] You know, I don't think I ever got a drug lecture.

[714] My mom is, I was 16 years old, and I guess her and my father had had a conversation about the fact they knew I was smoking weed because they could spell it or whatever.

[715] Sure.

[716] And it was Christmas.

[717] I was visiting my mom, and she brought up weed, and I thought I was in trouble.

[718] But then she pulled out a joint.

[719] And we went to the, took a walk and walked to the orchard and sat in the trees and got high.

[720] It was great.

[721] And I think their whole thing was always just, you know, schoolwork first.

[722] What if your story took a crazy turn?

[723] You're like, and then she pulled an eight ball out.

[724] I took a hit, and she looked at me, and she was like, I didn't know you like to get wet.

[725] And then I wrote the script to the training day.

[726] The training day, yeah.

[727] The Denzel character is actually based on my mother, so.

[728] Fun fact.

[729] Okay, so you start working pretty darn quickly, and you do eight episodes of Californication.

[730] I remember that.

[731] Yeah.

[732] And then you quickly you get into X -Men.

[733] Did you embrace your name, or did you run from it?

[734] I thought about not using it.

[735] I thought about just going by my middle name.

[736] I'm Isabella, Zoe Isabella, and I kind of tried to do it, but it just, like, didn't stick, and people kept on forgetting, and it just, like, no one was responding to, like, this idea I had.

[737] Like, I would be, I would tell my agent, and it just wasn't happening.

[738] Yeah.

[739] And then I also think I mentioned it to my dad at one point, and I think I could feel that he, it made him a little sad.

[740] Sure.

[741] And so, yeah, I just, I just kind of stuck with it.

[742] And, you know, I did used to be really insecure about people, you know, just associating me with my family.

[743] And now I'm, I love it.

[744] I'm so proud of it.

[745] them and it's cool.

[746] It can be such a roller coaster of thoughts, right?

[747] Because I even had it like originally when Kristen and I would work together, the most insecure side of my brain would be telling me people were going to think I was only in it because she got me in it.

[748] So I didn't want to work with her because of that.

[749] And then she was in my movie that I wrote and directed.

[750] And then I thought, oh, people are going to say, oh, she did me a favor by being in the movie.

[751] But mind you, no one said anything.

[752] It was all completely in my mind.

[753] And I was like, I enjoy working with her.

[754] I'm going to fucking do that and stop thinking about it.

[755] But even on a small thing like that, I would get neurotic about what the perception was.

[756] Totally.

[757] People would always say to me, are you ever going to collaborate with your dad?

[758] And I'd be like, no. And I'm like, why am I?

[759] Why is it no?

[760] Like, why am I responding so violently to that idea?

[761] Yeah, but you want a sense that you've earned what you got and you made it on your own.

[762] Like, it's all very, I think it'd be insane if you didn't have those fears.

[763] No, totally.

[764] But I think even, like, in the moment, you're not even clear about what it is.

[765] You're just like, no, I would never do that.

[766] It'd be stupid.

[767] You're not even like, no, I think I'm going to wait to kind of, you know, carve my own path.

[768] Like, it's not a clear thought like that.

[769] It's just immature.

[770] But when you got in this movie with Fastbender and James McAvoy and then Vaughn's great director and Rose Byrne, was there like, oh, fuck, I'm in the big leagues right out of the gate.

[771] Did you have any kind of fear or were you like, bring it?

[772] You know, it's funny, I just realized recently that that was about 10 years ago, which is so nuts.

[773] When you were 22, I'm kidding.

[774] You were 21.

[775] I fucked up the fast man. And I look back and I think there was a part of me that was just like, okay.

[776] I also never really thought I was going to do movies like that.

[777] The kinds of movies that I always saw myself doing were kind of cool, small, weird indie movies.

[778] And I kept on booking these big action movies.

[779] And I think it's because those were the auditions where I was like, yeah, right.

[780] And who cares?

[781] Yeah.

[782] Like, you didn't even want it, which made you hot.

[783] I didn't want it.

[784] And I also, there was no way I was going to get it either.

[785] So, yeah, man. So I came, I don't know.

[786] I think I was pretty casual about it, which is so, you know, funny.

[787] And looking back, it was like a huge stepping stone for me. But I think I was like, all right, next been.

[788] Sure.

[789] I could fly.

[790] Did you ever rob yourself of experiences I did this where I was too cool for things, yet I did them?

[791] And then all I really did is, like, kind of rob myself of being.

[792] present and experiencing it?

[793] I'm sure I've done that.

[794] Yeah, I hope so.

[795] I'm probably doing it right now.

[796] Well, you are too cool for this interview, but that's a lot of people are, so don't flatter yourself.

[797] Now, I had a couple big questions, kind of like overarching questions, because you really go from most actors, 99 .9 % of the actors don't even work.

[798] So let's start there.

[799] Then, 0 .01 % of them work, and of those, 99 % of them never end up in a sequel.

[800] And then you're in some franchises, which is exciting, but they're also really time -consuming.

[801] You're also in your 20s, and they're also movies that are huge and on locations.

[802] So I'm wondering, you kind of just touched on it, but did you have a theory on what your career was supposed to be, what you were trying to create?

[803] And then also, what is it like to just never be home through your whole 20s?

[804] That could either rule or in the period where you're kind of defining who you are, it could rob you of.

[805] that luxury?

[806] I definitely didn't have a plan.

[807] I said no to a lot of things.

[808] One thing I realized I was very lucky about was that I had a little bit of help.

[809] It wasn't, you know, my dad gave me a little bit of money just to like start off.

[810] And he's always said he's really proud.

[811] I never asked for money ever again.

[812] That was the one time it gave me money.

[813] And there were definitely, there was a point where I was like, okay, fuck, I haven't worked in a long time.

[814] I don't know how I'm going to pay my rent.

[815] But I did have the luxury of being able to say no to a few things when I was younger, which I think is really important when you're trying to sculpt a career.

[816] It takes most people a whole career to learn to say no. And most people don't have the luxury.

[817] They just need to fucking pay their rent.

[818] So that was something I was very lucky to be able to do.

[819] I guess I did work a lot, but there's some major lulls in between the things that you're talking about.

[820] Like, I left college when I was 18 because I only went from like half a year.

[821] So from 18 to 20, I was hanging out in Brooklyn hard.

[822] Okay.

[823] hanging out in Brooklyn, not doing anything, went to London for six months, however long to do X -Men, and then came back and then was again just in Brooklyn doing nothing for, like, maybe, you know, another year or something like that.

[824] Before the divergent thing starts?

[825] You know, actually it was Mad Max and then Divergent.

[826] Oh, that makes sense because it probably took forever for that thing to come out.

[827] Yeah, I think Mad Max came out after Divergent came out.

[828] It did.

[829] Because that's probably the thing you've been in that I have the moment.

[830] most questions for.

[831] First and foremost, road warrior defined my childhood.

[832] I was on the big wheel every day.

[833] I was Mad Max.

[834] My brother was chasing me. So with great anticipation, I see your movie.

[835] It delivers on so many levels.

[836] The entire movie is one big action set piece.

[837] It never stops.

[838] I wondered how the hell he kept track of like, oh yeah, what do we need today?

[839] We need nine shots of the guy with a guitar.

[840] I mean, what a fucking circus.

[841] And early in your career, were you kind of like, oh, this is, this is normal, or were you aware of that this was a spectacular experience?

[842] I think, again, looking back, I was so young that I was just along for the ride.

[843] Mm -hmm.

[844] I wasn't attached to anything, really back home.

[845] I did have a boyfriend, and that kind of destroyed that.

[846] In Australia, right?

[847] Or South Africa?

[848] Yeah, in Namibia.

[849] We were in this very small town called Swakumund, and there's nothing there.

[850] There's nothing there.

[851] There's some very, very kind of, like, porous shanty towns, and then there's some, some weird kind of big houses that a lot of German people vacation there.

[852] There's a lot of weird energy there.

[853] Sure.

[854] Well, it used to be a German colonial port.

[855] So there's just like weird, like residual shit going on.

[856] At that age, you don't really think about it, right?

[857] You're just like, cool, what time's my flight and where do I go?

[858] And then all of a sudden, you're in Namibia, and you don't even think about, like, what this is going to be like.

[859] It was nine months.

[860] Oh.

[861] Wow.

[862] We're in almost every shot, because we're just in the back of the car.

[863] Oh, my God bless you, God bless you.

[864] So we're always there.

[865] We're all away from our homes.

[866] We're living in these, like, big houses, but there's, like, nothing around it.

[867] There's one restaurant you can go to.

[868] It's just, it was a really weird experience.

[869] And then we spend all day in these sand dunes.

[870] And you do start to go crazy.

[871] Like, we all went insane.

[872] You know, and George Miller, who I just, I love him so much.

[873] He's an amazing artist.

[874] And he was so specific about.

[875] even though we had very little dialogue, you know, just who these women were, what they had gone through.

[876] We did a two -week course with Eve Ensler.

[877] She's this amazing woman.

[878] She's a performer, but also has this incredible place called City of Joy in the Congo, where she takes in women who have been human trafficked and mutilated in horrible ways.

[879] And she's just, she's an amazing woman, but she also wrote the vagina monologues.

[880] These women were sex slaves.

[881] So, you know, he really wanted us to understand the gravity of that.

[882] And the fact that he took the time to even, you know, go deeper with that, especially when it's not in the dialogue, I think was really special.

[883] And he knew this story so deeply.

[884] He'd been working on it for so many years.

[885] I remember it, you know, he'd come up and give you a direction and he would close his eyes and he would start talking to you.

[886] But he was seeing it in his head.

[887] He was seeing it.

[888] He was feeling everything really deeply.

[889] And he's, I mean, he's really, he's truly a genius.

[890] And did anyone take you under their wing?

[891] because it sounds like you basically had like island fever.

[892] Yeah, Charlize is really cool.

[893] She's South African, so she felt way more at home.

[894] She would have dinners at her house, and her mom was there with her, and that was really sweet.

[895] And, you know, and we also, you know, me and Riley go way back, and Abby Lee's, one of my dearest friends to this day.

[896] And Nicole, I had worked with doing X -Men, so we had a little crew.

[897] But, yeah, it was like summer camp that turned into, like, horror movie summer camp a little bit.

[898] Was it always scheduled for nine months, or did you just keep going over?

[899] Always scheduled for nine months.

[900] Actually, when I was the second person they cast, I read with a different actor that they hadn't hired Tom Hardy yet, and they were kind of matching people up.

[901] You can tell people, it was me. It was you.

[902] That's how I originally know.

[903] No, Dax is from our Mad Max.

[904] I didn't look good in any of the gear.

[905] And then they cast me, and then, that was when it was supposed to be shot in Australia and they were supposed to shoot it in this place called god I can't remember the name right now but it was this area that was desert and then it rained an abnormal amount that year and it started all these flowers and tree I mean and grass started popping up and they were like we can't fucking shoot here so they had to I think kind of crush all of the vehicles find a new location and the movie got pushed a year oh wow this sounds like Apocalypse now.

[906] Yeah, we just, have you ever watched Hearts of Darkness the documentary?

[907] Yeah, yeah.

[908] I just showed it to Monica two nights ago for the first time.

[909] Oh my God.

[910] Oh, so good.

[911] So crazy.

[912] So crazy.

[913] Almost better than the movie, that, that documentary.

[914] I was just going to say, it's crazy that the documentary is just as good if not better.

[915] Yeah.

[916] Yeah, what a ride.

[917] So, yeah, it was supposed to be nine months, but it was supposed to be nine months a year before we shot it.

[918] Uh -huh.

[919] And in Australia.

[920] And in Australia.

[921] Okay, so then you do the Divergent series.

[922] And again, you do three of them.

[923] But these all came out like every year there was a new one.

[924] Yeah, three summers in Atlanta.

[925] Three, two, yeah, three summers in Atlanta.

[926] So I would imagine in a certain respect, it probably felt like being on a TV show, did it a little bit?

[927] Like where you kept returning, it was like a new season almost?

[928] Yeah, it did.

[929] I mean, those films, you know, with all due respect, those weren't my favorite films that I made.

[930] And I think as we went on, the story really kind of got lost and no one really knew what we were doing anymore.

[931] And that makes it really hard.

[932] I'm happy to go wherever if I know what we're making and why.

[933] But once you lose sight of that, it becomes really hard.

[934] I think it depends on what it is, too, when you're, like, running away from something and you're like what and why, and it's a million degree.

[935] It's just like, you can't see anything.

[936] It's all CG.

[937] Yeah, that's rough.

[938] That's rough.

[939] It's embarrassing, right?

[940] That's what it is.

[941] It's embarrassing.

[942] Do you have any fancy taste?

[943] You probably wanted an apartment in New York.

[944] Is that what you were aiming for it?

[945] I wanted an apartment.

[946] You collect Rolls Royces, too.

[947] People don't know that about you.

[948] You're like the Bogwant.

[949] You have 30 -some Rolls Royces, right?

[950] And, yeah, and the real thing in New York is like, where do you park them?

[951] Right, right, right.

[952] I thought you bought Jerry Seinfeld's parking garage off of him to park your Rose Royces.

[953] It opens up, is it at the bottom of his house, right?

[954] It's like part of his house or something.

[955] Yeah, yeah, real baller.

[956] Damn, be cool.

[957] Okay, so then you land right in another franchise.

[958] You go into Fantastic Bees.

[959] Well, what I will point out is that with the franchises, I've been, depending on how you see it, lucky or not lucky, but got killed off in both X -Men and Fantastic Beasts.

[960] That's kind of cool, though, right?

[961] Yeah, no, it is.

[962] You were saying, you know, returning over and over again is difficult, and so I've got kind of lucky in that way.

[963] Yeah.

[964] So then the thing that we consumed the most was Big Little Lies.

[965] Oh, yeah, loved it.

[966] Thank you.

[967] Big little lies.

[968] But the pattern I'm recognizing is like just a bunch of real gun slingers that you keep finding yourself in the middle.

[969] So like that show, if there was ever a matriarch show with like the most powerful accomplished ladies and they're at the reins, was that inspiring?

[970] Did you feel like I don't belong here?

[971] Like any number of things could have resulted from that.

[972] I think I experienced a lot of feelings, those being too.

[973] them.

[974] But I think ultimately I just felt, A, very lucky to be there.

[975] And it made me work harder because I would think to myself, I'm not going to let my performance ruin what these amazing women are doing, you know, because it really is an ensemble show.

[976] And so if there's one person that's not doing their job, I think the whole thing kind of falls apart.

[977] So I really wanted to do well just to keep their amazing performances intact, you know.

[978] Yeah.

[979] There's like, there's two layers happening.

[980] So your character on the show is this like, of course, anyone's fear, the man has left his wife.

[981] Now he's got this much younger woman.

[982] There's a couple layers.

[983] That could go south because you're playing that role.

[984] And then people like hunker into their character in a way that it's like it bleeds over a little bit outside of scenes.

[985] And so I could imagine if I were you, I'd be like, hmm, I'm playing the other younger woman.

[986] But I also have to be careful that I'm not triggering in any way that I am a young actress that is, you know, at the peak of your youth powers.

[987] That's interesting.

[988] That might be a misogynist question.

[989] Can I just check myself?

[990] That might be, I don't know if I'd ask you a young guy.

[991] I want to understand what your question is.

[992] I don't think I fully understand your question.

[993] Okay, so my question is your character is basically a threat to these women.

[994] Yes.

[995] Because you're young, bohemian, and hot.

[996] You're also really young and bohemian and hot in real life.

[997] I'm wondering if I would walk into that situation as you being a little eggshelly of like, oh, I don't want to assume the real life character that I'm playing in this show.

[998] Does that make any sense?

[999] But I am wondering if I would ask a guy.

[1000] I don't know if I'd ask a young dude that was in like those Sylvester Stallone movies, undesirables or whatever.

[1001] I don't know if I'd ask the young guy.

[1002] Like, did you feel like you were threatening to those guys?

[1003] No, but A, I appreciate you possibly checking your.

[1004] yourself, but B, I have not offended by your question.

[1005] Okay, okay.

[1006] But I appreciate you saying that.

[1007] No, you know, it's funny.

[1008] I didn't really think of the, I think the way that you were thinking of the character might be like a little bit more misogynistic than the way I thought about the character because I didn't define Bonnie as someone who was like young and hot and bohemian.

[1009] I was like, okay, there's this woman who fell in love with somebody and his ex -wife is having a hard time with that.

[1010] And she also has an abusive past and, like, what does that mean about, like, why she's in this relationship and why she's in this place?

[1011] and she's constantly trying to keep her emotions in check and her anger in check, which then at the end of the show, we realized she's not really able to do.

[1012] So I think I was thinking about it differently.

[1013] I was also very into the element of her that was, like, I'm not as hippie -dippy as she is.

[1014] I'm not going to wear yoga clothes out of my own house or in a yoga class.

[1015] You know what I mean?

[1016] Like, I find that annoying.

[1017] And so it was fun to lean into that, you know, it was really fun to pronounce Peru, Peru, because it made me want to punch myself in the face.

[1018] You know what I'm saying?

[1019] So I was very conscious.

[1020] of that element of Bonnie.

[1021] Yeah, I'm sure you could have drawn on your Topanga co -holes.

[1022] Yeah, I mean, in some ways I was kind of like channeling my mom a bit, you know, which was fun to do.

[1023] When she watches you, does it tickle your mom?

[1024] I mean, did she fucking finally buy a TV so she could watch you?

[1025] I think I had to get her a link and she watched it on her computer because she still doesn't have a TV.

[1026] Oh, my God.

[1027] No, she really, I mean, she really liked the show.

[1028] She was really into it.

[1029] And when season two came along, it was, it was fun to watch her get addicted to a show like that because she's so not that person.

[1030] But it's funny, the thing that she ended up resonating with the most was high fidelity.

[1031] And I think it's because it was the closest to me as a person.

[1032] So she got to really see just my personality.

[1033] And I think she kind of recognized that.

[1034] Yeah, that would be cool.

[1035] Because the hardest thing to learn to play in my experience is yourself.

[1036] I had never got an opportunity to because the characters I was playing, you know, Bonnie, she was, she's not very funny.

[1037] You know, and I think humor is, you know, one of my strengths and one of my, both, all my family, my mom and my father as well.

[1038] Like, we love to laugh, you know what I mean?

[1039] So it's such a huge part of how we communicate and how we do with pain and all of it, you know.

[1040] Yeah, I'm with you.

[1041] Now, so I watch high fidelity.

[1042] First and foremost, it was a movie, right?

[1043] Yeah, it was a movie with John Cusack and it was also a book.

[1044] John Cusack, who as a kid, he kind of represented all of us tall, gangly guys that weren't the quarterback on the football team.

[1045] All the tall white dudes that didn't have a voice.

[1046] That's right, that's right.

[1047] Those poor excluded white males who have no voice.

[1048] But so I have a nostalgia for that movie.

[1049] I was curious to see how the TV show would be.

[1050] And the thing that I think they got beautifully, or you guys got beautifully, is this, like, laid -back pacing.

[1051] It's more like slice of lifey.

[1052] I think it's especially in an era where I consume so much serialized content, and I got to see the next one.

[1053] And it's this whole, it was just like this great nostalgic reminder of like, oh, yeah, I love watching people fucking chill out and go through life.

[1054] And, like, the little tiny specificities of just being a lot.

[1055] You know, growing up, my favorite kinds of movies were those slice of life, stories about nothing and everything at the same time.

[1056] I loved, you know, Empire Records and Reality Bites and clerks.

[1057] And, you know, those were always kind of my favorite kinds of films.

[1058] Singles?

[1059] Singles, my so -called life.

[1060] Oh, sure, sure.

[1061] I just loved watching people have conversations.

[1062] Mm -hmm.

[1063] And I wanted to hang out with those people.

[1064] And that was, I think, a big part of the attraction, like creating an environment that people want to hang out in.

[1065] Yeah, I think when I was younger, like when I was in my 20s, I guess I was really trying to figure out what identity I was going to hang my hat on.

[1066] And those movies, to me, were providing these really interesting options for identity.

[1067] Well, this idea about, like, being a slacker, too, which is a very kind of 90s idea, you know what I mean?

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] But there's always been something really interesting about that.

[1070] Like the slackers, they have something to say, but they don't want to be a part of society and they're stuck.

[1071] And it's, you know, we all identify with that.

[1072] And I think that's part of the reason why the pacing in the show is what it is because, you know, it isn't about having like a cliffhanger that, you know, you have to come back and see.

[1073] I think it's just about like caring about the people and their relationships.

[1074] And if you care, you want to hang out with them again, you know?

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] This is neither here nor there.

[1077] And I debated whether or not to tell you this or not, but I'm going to because here we are.

[1078] So I had sold something to Showtime like four years ago.

[1079] It was called The Fictitious Life of Daryl Hall.

[1080] So it was going to be about Darrell Hall from Hall and Oates in the 80s, but an entirely fake version of his life.

[1081] But then each episode would culminate in one of the songs that you know.

[1082] But you'd be like, whoa, that's what Sarah Smile was about.

[1083] Anyways.

[1084] That's cool.

[1085] So I wrote this pilot, and the co -lead of this show was this Jamaican housekeeper that Darrell Hall had that he has this affair with that she's really just tricking him.

[1086] And Sarah smiles about her, you find out in the pilot.

[1087] Anyways, I wrote it for you, and we had this long conversation.

[1088] My wife and I was like, I've written this role for Zoe, and what do you think about that?

[1089] And she goes, well, I think it's very dangerous, but I would want you to do it.

[1090] So you have my blessing.

[1091] I love her.

[1092] I love you guys.

[1093] You guys are such a cool couple.

[1094] Wait, did I ever get it?

[1095] What happened?

[1096] No, what happened was they loved it.

[1097] I wanted to do it, and ultimately things unraveled with Daryl Hall in getting his life rights.

[1098] And I was having breakfasts with him, and it was like one day it was good.

[1099] And then the next day he was getting scared.

[1100] And he's like, well, what do people think that's my real life?

[1101] And I'm like, well, but it's called the false history of Daryl Hall, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1102] So it ended up unraveling for those reasons.

[1103] Got it.

[1104] Well, I'm very flattered.

[1105] I don't think I've ever interviewed someone I just blindly wrote a role for.

[1106] Will you write something else for me?

[1107] Yes, yes.

[1108] I mean that.

[1109] Okay.

[1110] Oh, man. Now, when I was writing that, David Nevins, who runs Showtime, I was like, yeah, it's got this, this has got to be Zoe Cravitz.

[1111] He's like, oh, my God, that would be great.

[1112] Then we're like, can we get Zoe Cravitz for a TV show, blah, blah, blah.

[1113] So I've had this whole experience where I have sat with other people debating whether or not you would do a TV show.

[1114] And so I only say that to say that I know you have a lot of options.

[1115] So how did you decide, A, to do TV, and then B, that it would be this project.

[1116] Well, you know, well, big little eyes broke the seal for the TV thing.

[1117] And I think obviously television has evolved in a massive way now that we have all these streaming services.

[1118] So I'm also very wary of the reboot, as I know a lot of people are because it can go terribly, terribly wrong.

[1119] And I think a lot of people, you know, they see these reboots, especially when you have like a gender swap and think, you know, what is the fucking point?

[1120] I read high fidelity as a kid.

[1121] I saw high fidelity, obviously, when I got a bit older, but when my mom was in the movie and, And I loved the movie.

[1122] Like, it wasn't because my mom was in it.

[1123] I just loved the fucking movie.

[1124] And I identified with these people.

[1125] And the person that I identified with the most was the John Cusack character, was the Rob character.

[1126] And so when I heard that they were doing this, it just, it sparked my attention because I haven't really seen a female character like that.

[1127] And, of course, there's flea bag and stuff.

[1128] But it was also about her relationship with music and pop culture.

[1129] And we live in this world where for some reason those, you know, cinema, sports, music, they've been like put into this box where like men go and women aren't supposed to be passionate about those kinds of things.

[1130] And I also felt really protective over the property because I had such a love for the film and for the book.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] And met with Nick Hornby and me have become really good friends.

[1133] And it was really, really important to me to do this show with a lot of love and respect.

[1134] And I really wanted to protect the original tone.

[1135] keep the kind of like punk rock feeling that I think you know it has it's it's a romantic comedy but it kind of has this like punk vibe to it and so part of me did this show so I could protect that yeah that that male female thing is interesting because you're right it doesn't really exist in media yet I'll also say there is some true to it like when growing up boys get obsessed with like stats of baseball players and if they like music they They got to know who the fucking sound engineer was.

[1136] And I believe that that ultimately is all grasping at control.

[1137] I think so many of the things we all do has some element of control.

[1138] So it's like if you completely understand every single little sliver of this thing you're interested in, it gives the illusion of control.

[1139] And even the way your character is like, she wants to bring everything back to music.

[1140] And she's only comfortable when she's spouting off these facts.

[1141] And to me, it does feel like an exercise and control in some weird way.

[1142] I think you're absolutely right.

[1143] The thing that you love the most, you can control because it's not a person, right?

[1144] It can't do anything to hurt you.

[1145] I also think that men are able to, you know, if you're obsessed with your baseball cards, or you're obsessed with Dungeons and Dragons or whatever the fuck you're obsessed with, you like, you talk about it.

[1146] You're like, this is my thing.

[1147] I'm obsessed with this thing.

[1148] And women, it's not cool to be.

[1149] be obsessed with those kinds of things.

[1150] Like you're supposed to just be like into guys or into brushing your hair or whatever the fuck people think that women are into.

[1151] You know what I mean?

[1152] I don't think women feel comfortable.

[1153] Girls feel comfortable saying, I'm obsessed with this and I love this.

[1154] And this is my opinion.

[1155] I'm not going to change my opinion.

[1156] You know what I mean?

[1157] I don't think that's really something that society says you can do.

[1158] Yeah, I would agree.

[1159] I was also really excited to explore a character and try and create a character that people would love for a long time.

[1160] You know, one of my favorite shows to this day is Sex and the City and that was a huge inspiration.

[1161] And that was another reason I wanted to do the show.

[1162] I wanted to write a love letter to New York in the way that I think Sex and the City was a Love Letter to New York.

[1163] The thing I loved about Sex in the City so much was that I really felt like it captured the city I lived in.

[1164] Even though I was younger, I was still like, I know this place and I know these like walk and talks and I know like just the situations.

[1165] And so I really wanted to do that for a younger generation.

[1166] And, you know, obviously, sex in the city is problematic in some ways.

[1167] Now, we look back and look at the way that there was no people of color.

[1168] And then when there was, it was a little weird.

[1169] But, you know, it was exciting to try and bring that element to a new world with people who, you know, are different diversities and sexual orientations and talk about, like, a different kind of neighborhood.

[1170] But still, just, like, bring this place to life, I think was something I was excited to do.

[1171] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

[1172] Now, how long have you been married now?

[1173] Almost a year.

[1174] Why was Carl the one?

[1175] Aw, Carl.

[1176] You might have headphones on upstairs.

[1177] Zoe's glowing just for the listener, since you haven't seen anything, but some other lightbulb just came on.

[1178] Why was Carl the one?

[1179] I don't know.

[1180] It really just, I feel like I've known him my entire life.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] When I met him, I was very much, I was going through a dry spell.

[1183] I had gone through a breakup and, like, hadn't really met anyone that I had connected with in a while.

[1184] and my friend met Carl and fully brought him to this friend's birthday party at a bar so I could have someone to hook up with.

[1185] He was like, he's cute, he's in town, like, I'm going to bring him, you're going to have fun.

[1186] Like postmates, it was delivered to you.

[1187] It was a postmate, yes, it was a postmate, pre -postmates.

[1188] So it was, you know, it was kind of meant to be a really casual thing.

[1189] And then we just kind of never separated.

[1190] He was just so damn good in bed.

[1191] You were like, no, I'm going to.

[1192] I mean, that didn't hurt.

[1193] But, God, I don't know.

[1194] He's just one of the kindest people I've ever met.

[1195] He's one of the most honest people I've ever met.

[1196] And I feel like I've known him since I was a kid, even though I haven't.

[1197] Like, there's this connection where it's just like, we've always known each other.

[1198] We've always lived together.

[1199] We've always, like, it doesn't feel like this foreign thing.

[1200] Like you rejoined?

[1201] Yeah, kind of.

[1202] Or just like we have a history, it feels like.

[1203] You know how some, you have, like, a weird part of your personality that, like, only your friends know from when you were young.

[1204] We have that same part of our personalities, if that makes sense.

[1205] And then being together right now in quarantine has been so fucking great.

[1206] You know, at first it was like, okay, let's see how this goes, especially being in a relationship where we're like constantly traveling and stuff.

[1207] But it's fucking great.

[1208] He's just awesome.

[1209] Yeah, it put a real, real magnifying glass on some things that we had not been discussing.

[1210] Because when you're busy, you can just kind of shove stuff off like, yeah, that's an issue.

[1211] But maybe we'll get to that.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] There's something really awesome about it, though.

[1214] It's like pushing the restart button.

[1215] Yeah.

[1216] Well, I got to assume that this whole thing's going to make a lot of people get divorced and a lot of people have better relationships.

[1217] Well, I read in China that the divorce rate went like skyrocketed after.

[1218] Really?

[1219] Yeah.

[1220] Wow.

[1221] That doesn't surprise me. Like an insane amount.

[1222] Like all these Chinese women were like, no. No, thank you.

[1223] No, thank you.

[1224] Yeah.

[1225] Yeah, I don't.

[1226] I think that Chris and I have been around each other this uninterrupted since we met 12, 13 years ago.

[1227] Like, this is a whole new amount of time together.

[1228] Now we had a real rocky couple weeks there, but now we're on the other side of it.

[1229] But yeah, it got a little dicey.

[1230] It was rocky for us only because I was so freaked out.

[1231] Like when this whole thing started, I was like, is the world ending?

[1232] Like, is this it, you know?

[1233] And I would just break down and cry.

[1234] And then I would say we have to disinfect everything.

[1235] and then I would order a pizza, and then I would cry because I ate the pizza, but only because I was like I didn't disinfect the box properly.

[1236] And like, it was, I was such a maniac.

[1237] And one of the reasons he's so great is that he put up with my psychotic behavior really beautifully.

[1238] Yeah, it's really fertile ground for these, like, kind of historic evolutionary archetypes that genders have.

[1239] So, like, me as the guy is like, fuck this, bring it on.

[1240] I'll kill this virus.

[1241] my wife is appropriately responsible and worried.

[1242] And then my attempt to make her feel safer, ultimately makes her feel more scared.

[1243] You know, it's just really ripe for all these weird kind of traditional gender things.

[1244] Dudes like to fix things.

[1245] Like, they want to fix it.

[1246] Exactly.

[1247] That was a big thing in our relationship early on.

[1248] I was like, stop trying to fix things when I'm upset because it makes me more upset.

[1249] Yes, it's so hard as it got.

[1250] to listen to your problem and just recognize, oh, you just wanted me to listen to it, not to solve it.

[1251] I feel like my role is to solve whatever issue exists.

[1252] And then we get more mad.

[1253] We're like, don't tell me what it is.

[1254] Just, I'm just telling you what I feel.

[1255] Yes.

[1256] Oh, is it hard.

[1257] It's really hard.

[1258] Even when you learn that and recognize that pattern, it still just pops up every five seconds.

[1259] I mean, it comes from a place of love and also feeling uncomfortable.

[1260] You know, you're like, let me fix it.

[1261] This is, I don't like the way this feels.

[1262] Just wait an hour and it will be fine.

[1263] Do you think you'll have a baby?

[1264] I don't know.

[1265] That's a triggering question.

[1266] I know it's a triggering question.

[1267] Well, yeah, I used to find it very triggering, especially because, well, one, when you get married or engaged, the first thing people ask you is when you're going to have a baby.

[1268] I think it's what they ask women, not men.

[1269] Sure, sure.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] Right?

[1272] So that's a little annoying.

[1273] Also, a lot of people ask the question, when are you going to have a baby?

[1274] Or say things like, when's the baby?

[1275] and I really get offended by people assuming that that's something I have to do because society says so.

[1276] Yep.

[1277] Yeah, so I don't know.

[1278] I don't know.

[1279] Right now, I'm certainly not in a place where I think I'm able to do that because of work.

[1280] And also just, man, I don't know.

[1281] I like my free time.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] As someone with two kids, you know, go to every country, you know?

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] You see it all.

[1286] Do it all.

[1287] So, I don't know.

[1288] We'll see.

[1289] I know I have a lot of female friends who have always known they want to have kids.

[1290] and I'm part of me is, like, jealous of women who just know.

[1291] Right, the certainty.

[1292] You know, it's kind of like people who know what they want to do for a living and people who don't, you know, it's a luxury to know what you want to do.

[1293] Oh, big time.

[1294] And to know where you're headed.

[1295] So, I don't know.

[1296] Okay, well, Zoe, we love you.

[1297] We adore you.

[1298] We're big fans.

[1299] Thank you.

[1300] You and your mom are tied, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

[1301] It's a nice two weeks.

[1302] Although, I don't know.

[1303] Your mom's got Angel Heart going for her.

[1304] Oh, yeah.

[1305] No, my mom's, like, fully the winner.

[1306] Like, she's fully the winner.

[1307] one is because when i read about your husband one of the things that came up was that he had been in a controversial movie with unsimulated sex which i had never even heard that term until what was that what was the term unsimulated sex so just sex exactly i don't know why they called it unsimulated like just say sex but um anyways when i read that i was like oh the the long time a hollywood lore is that mickey roark and your mom had sex in that movie you know i don't know if that's true.

[1308] I've never dared to ask.

[1309] I didn't even see it until I was in my, you know, mid -20s because it was this like thing that I was like, oh, that is, because people would always bring it up.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] I don't know.

[1312] Probably, I don't know.

[1313] I hope so, but I just think good for everyone.

[1314] Good for the world.

[1315] You've picked up these rumors on sets by now, right?

[1316] The other famous one, right, is Billy Bob Thornton and, uh...

[1317] Hallie Berry.

[1318] Yeah, yeah.

[1319] Yeah, you've heard that rumor, right?

[1320] I have heard that rumor.

[1321] I also heard the rumor when I was like, you know, that Marilyn Manson took out his ribs so he could suck his own dick.

[1322] Oh, yes.

[1323] That was a big rumor in the 90s.

[1324] That's a great rumor.

[1325] That's a fun podcast episode.

[1326] Can we do a whole just like rumors?

[1327] We could.

[1328] Back when I was still a drug addict, I did a massive amount of cocaine with him.

[1329] So I do feel like I would be comfortable asking him that.

[1330] Please.

[1331] We'll do it in the fact check.

[1332] You'll ask.

[1333] Okay, I'm going to have to reach out to another person that's a connector that I'd rather not.

[1334] But I'll do it.

[1335] I'll do it.

[1336] No, in the name of truth.

[1337] No, do it for the good of the show.

[1338] I think you should do it.

[1339] Contact your drug dealer for us.

[1340] Here is the truth.

[1341] So my best friend from childhood was just staying with us.

[1342] We were all quarantining together, by the way, so there was like six of us.

[1343] Did you have it?

[1344] Did you have symptoms?

[1345] I don't know why I heard.

[1346] No. No. Oh, was that a rumor too?

[1347] That I had a rumor.

[1348] Oh, I was quarantined.

[1349] You were, right?

[1350] I know what happened.

[1351] Because because I had been in Texas and they were already quarantined.

[1352] I came home and quarantined here in Monica's apartment for a week.

[1353] Okay.

[1354] And then I was allowed to come back to my house.

[1355] So I think that's probably what's going on.

[1356] The point is my childhood best friend, Aaron Weekly, was here, who I've known since we were 11.

[1357] And we were just last week we were talking.

[1358] I said, well, you did try to suck your own dick, right?

[1359] And he goes, oh, a thousand times.

[1360] And I said, yeah, me too.

[1361] And it was so clear it was never going to happen anatomically.

[1362] It's just not going to happen.

[1363] It's like when someone tells you can't ever lick your own elbow and you're like, yes, you fucking can.

[1364] and you just try.

[1365] Yes, you can't.

[1366] But it is, it's so weird for a guy because I have to assume a high percentage of guys have tried that.

[1367] And yet, you don't really think the whole thing through.

[1368] So it's like, okay, what if I could get it in my mouth?

[1369] And then what?

[1370] Yeah, am I going to really enjoy that?

[1371] I can't imagine.

[1372] I'd be so distracted.

[1373] I would be more aware of the feeling that a penis was in my mouth than that my penis was in a mouth.

[1374] Does that make sense?

[1375] Yeah, but I feel like if you're going to masturbate, it's a same.

[1376] might as well put your, it's the same thing.

[1377] And yes, yes, I think in that way, who cares?

[1378] You're already jerking yourself off.

[1379] That's what I'm saying.

[1380] Yeah, who cares?

[1381] But also, I just do think you'd be overwhelmed the sensation of, oh, there's, I have a, I can feel a penis in my mouth.

[1382] I bet you'd get over that quickly.

[1383] Okay.

[1384] If you can do it.

[1385] Well, if it turns out that Marilyn Manson removed his ribs and it worked, I'm open to the procedure.

[1386] And then I can at least, I can maybe can answer two questions we've set up here.

[1387] I'd like to think that he removed his ribs just because he wanted to, to have a smaller ribcage and then realized after.

[1388] Unintended benefit.

[1389] Look at this.

[1390] Check this out.

[1391] Collateral benefit.

[1392] I like that theory.

[1393] All right.

[1394] Well, we adore you.

[1395] Safe quarantining.

[1396] And I really hope you'll come to our attic in the future.

[1397] I would love that.

[1398] Thanks for having me. It's nice to see human faces.

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] You can come and talk about the Batman.

[1401] Yeah.

[1402] The Batman.

[1403] I will come to talk about the Batman.

[1404] All right.

[1405] Be well.

[1406] Bye, you guys.

[1407] And now my favorite part of the show, The fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1408] So you're having a glass of wine.

[1409] Yeah.

[1410] What time is it?

[1411] 317.

[1412] Oh, perfect.

[1413] Perfect, perfect, perfect.

[1414] Six -17 in New York.

[1415] I asked if I could and you said yes, but it seemed like you were a little not excited about me to have one.

[1416] That was all in your head.

[1417] Okay.

[1418] But generally when I'm about to drink wine, you get really excited.

[1419] I do.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] I'm excited for you.

[1422] But you didn't get excited this time, so I got nervous.

[1423] You said, I'm going to.

[1424] have a drink and I said, great.

[1425] But then you heard, it's too early.

[1426] That's what you heard right when I said great.

[1427] Yeah, I guess.

[1428] Yeah.

[1429] Let's reenact the whole thing.

[1430] Okay.

[1431] Okay.

[1432] I'm going to have some wine.

[1433] Is that okay?

[1434] Yeah, great.

[1435] Is it too early?

[1436] No, you go, it's not too early.

[1437] You have to respond as if I actually said the thing you heard I said.

[1438] Wait.

[1439] Wait.

[1440] Wait.

[1441] But you said, okay, great.

[1442] You said the way you just.

[1443] Yeah, so watch.

[1444] I'll do it.

[1445] I'll show you another version of this.

[1446] Do you like this T -shirt?

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Why do you hate it so much?

[1449] Okay.

[1450] You see what I'm saying?

[1451] I heard what I wanted to hear that you didn't like it.

[1452] I don't think that's fair to me necessarily.

[1453] I didn't hear anything mean.

[1454] I didn't hear that you said you hated it.

[1455] I just...

[1456] I don't think you did.

[1457] But let's pretend you heard it's too early.

[1458] Okay.

[1459] Let's just see how it goes.

[1460] Okay.

[1461] I'm going to have some wine.

[1462] Is that cool?

[1463] Yeah, great.

[1464] You think it's too early?

[1465] Well, you think.

[1466] think it's too early.

[1467] That's how I would respond.

[1468] Stop telling me how it was just.

[1469] This is like when Delta tries to tell people how to play house with her and she's telling them what to say.

[1470] I can't stand that.

[1471] I wonder where she got it.

[1472] I know.

[1473] No, I just wanted to see how funny it would sound, but you're not going to do it.

[1474] So that's fine.

[1475] I'm going to move on.

[1476] I just want to see if it sounded really funny for you to respond as if I said another thing.

[1477] Okay, fine.

[1478] Okay.

[1479] Are you sure no?

[1480] Because this is pure pressure now?

[1481] No, I'll do it.

[1482] Okay.

[1483] I'm going to have some wine.

[1484] Is that cool?

[1485] Oh, great.

[1486] It's not too early.

[1487] It's three.

[1488] No, no, no. I said great.

[1489] No, but you said, great.

[1490] Yes, that wasn't that good.

[1491] It wasn't worth it.

[1492] But thank you for, thank you for showing it to me. You're welcome.

[1493] I did Liz Plank's podcast today, who I love, we love.

[1494] We love.

[1495] Oh, she's the coolest.

[1496] Anyway, I got scared.

[1497] Why?

[1498] People will hear it eventually, so they'll know.

[1499] But I had to do a little bit of a character.

[1500] Oh, you did?

[1501] Why?

[1502] It was part of it.

[1503] Oh, well, tell me more.

[1504] So I don't want to give too much away, but it's called heart homework.

[1505] It's awesome.

[1506] It's about grief, and I was in one of the episodes.

[1507] And so there's an exercise she does with each person.

[1508] I think it's different.

[1509] It's like tailored to each stage of grief.

[1510] And so anyway, so for mine, she has a character called Insecure Irene.

[1511] Oh, okay.

[1512] Who, when she feels insecure, she's like, oh, it's insecure Irene.

[1513] And she's like giving it a voice and all this stuff.

[1514] So then we had to do that.

[1515] And then I started to panic because I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to have to do a character.

[1516] And I don't do characters.

[1517] Right.

[1518] Although you do, you do metal mic.

[1519] But yeah.

[1520] I do the guy from.

[1521] Bless this mess.

[1522] Security team.

[1523] And that's a euphemism there.

[1524] The guy who lets people drive onto the lot.

[1525] Kind of, yeah.

[1526] Anyway, that's a nonverbal character I do.

[1527] It's all in the eyes.

[1528] Yes.

[1529] Very physical.

[1530] But this had to be verbal because it was via podcast.

[1531] So I started to get panicky.

[1532] And I went with it because I'm cool.

[1533] Yes, you are.

[1534] Well, you're like Jordan.

[1535] You rise to the occasion when there's things you don't think you could do, but if duty calls, you'll do them.

[1536] Speaking of.

[1537] Yeah, let's get into it.

[1538] Oh, my God.

[1539] Well, first of all, I have to say, a few episodes ago, I spoke out of turn.

[1540] Okay.

[1541] Is it out of turn or out of term?

[1542] Oh, I don't know.

[1543] Oh, my God.

[1544] Are both things?

[1545] I thought it was out of turn as in like.

[1546] You went before?

[1547] your turn to talk.

[1548] That makes sense.

[1549] What does speaking out of term mean?

[1550] Speaking out of turn.

[1551] So I'm wrong.

[1552] It's just, it's turn.

[1553] It is.

[1554] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1555] Okay.

[1556] Okay.

[1557] Wow.

[1558] Frays, if you speak out of turn or talk out of turn, you say something that you do not have the right or authority to say.

[1559] And what had you said?

[1560] I stand by it a bit, but I said that Chappelle is.

[1561] Right, right.

[1562] Significantly more impressive than Michael Jordan.

[1563] I don't think I said significantly, But you said he's the Michael Jordan of comedy.

[1564] And I said, well, to me, he's even more impressive than Michael Jordan.

[1565] Right, right, right.

[1566] Since that day, we have started the last dance documentary on ESPN, which is about the Bulls, the 97 -98 Bulls season, and mainly Michael Jordan.

[1567] Oh, my gosh.

[1568] And I just can't say anybody is, I just can't compare anybody to him.

[1569] It's not fair.

[1570] Well, here's what a guy in the documentary said.

[1571] And I keep saying it in my mind over and over again because it's the greatest sentence.

[1572] He said, Michael Jordan was as good at his job as anyone has ever been at their job in history.

[1573] I just love that.

[1574] It's the truth.

[1575] It's the truth.

[1576] Yeah, he just is the best that there's ever been at that job.

[1577] Do you think I'm the Michael Jordan of a podcast producers?

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] I kind of trapped you because what could you say?

[1580] Also, you've been doing it for two years and he did it for 13 and he got six.

[1581] championships and what am i the michael jordan of wow oh wow well you also did you say though that you had next to zero interest in watching a basketball documentary but that this basketball documentary is so well done that it's one of your favorite documentaries ever and it's not even a topic you're interested in it's not except as soon as it started i was like oh this is like made for me because i love stories about champions yes yeah winners in working hard and then achieving.

[1582] I'm so drawn to those stories.

[1583] Because Kristen missed the first episode with us.

[1584] And then we were talking about it.

[1585] And she was like, what is it?

[1586] And then you were like, well, it's a story about Michael Jordan and this.

[1587] And then I ran up and I said, it's a story about winners.

[1588] And that is really what it is a story about.

[1589] And I love it.

[1590] And I know you aren't going to like that I'm saying this.

[1591] But I can relate.

[1592] Of course.

[1593] Yeah, you've won a state championship.

[1594] Two.

[1595] Two state championships.

[1596] Two.

[1597] But I knew, by the way, there was one moment in the documentary and I said something.

[1598] And I knew as it was coming out of my mouth that it was going to land differently on you than I intended, which was, he makes a game -winning shot with two seconds left.

[1599] And he jumps in the air and fucking pumps his fist.

[1600] And I go, God, you and I will never know what it's like.

[1601] we'll never know what it feels like to do that.

[1602] And I had a hunch.

[1603] You were like, well, no, I won state championship.

[1604] But I was thinking, there wasn't a, was there a singular moment in the state championship where the whole thing was on your shoulders singularly?

[1605] Yes and no, because in cheerleading and competitive shielding, as you remember from cheer, I hope, if you fuck up, you did fuck up for everyone.

[1606] But everyone has that ability during the whole competition to fuck it up for every single person.

[1607] That's what I'm saying.

[1608] There was never a moment where you and the other team were tied and they sent Monica out there and said, you have two seconds to win this for everybody.

[1609] That's true.

[1610] That is true.

[1611] Right.

[1612] Like when you guys do perfect, it's a team, the team did perfect and you get a great score.

[1613] Yeah.

[1614] It's funny because I'm watching him and I'm like, oh my God, it's an NBA championship.

[1615] It's a huge deal.

[1616] But whatever scale you're doing it, it feels like the whole world.

[1617] Of course.

[1618] Like it doesn't feel like, oh, this is the Georgia State Championship of cheerleading.

[1619] It feels like this is my whole life.

[1620] Uh -huh.

[1621] And if we lose, my life is over.

[1622] And it was for naught.

[1623] Yeah, it was like a big old waste of time.

[1624] Yeah.

[1625] That's what blows about sports.

[1626] in a Marxist point of view is that the vast majority of people lose.

[1627] I know, but not me. But not me. I'm not worried about.

[1628] Yeah, although, obviously, there's lots of, the experience is also worthy.

[1629] It's everything.

[1630] I remember the experience now.

[1631] Yeah.

[1632] I don't, I mean, I do remember the feeling of winning because there's nothing like that.

[1633] But the experience is where you gain all the lessons.

[1634] I would hope it's way more about the sharing the experience with this group of people and having community and the trophies, the trophy.

[1635] But even if you lost, you still had had that exact same experience with the community up until the moment where you lose.

[1636] Yeah.

[1637] It's so special.

[1638] I think sports are so important.

[1639] Yeah.

[1640] I really do team sports specifically.

[1641] I wish I would have done it in high school.

[1642] I was so into working.

[1643] I wanted to be working every second and I wasn't at school.

[1644] I just wanted to be making money so I could buy a sweet car.

[1645] Yeah.

[1646] It's all I cared about.

[1647] But now in retrospect, I wish I had played football or something.

[1648] I don't think you would like it.

[1649] Why wouldn't you play basketball?

[1650] Because I don't think I was good enough.

[1651] I played in eighth grade.

[1652] I was on the eighth grade team and I loved it.

[1653] But I was like our leading rebounder.

[1654] I was a good defender, terrible shooter.

[1655] And all because of the pressure.

[1656] I'd panic.

[1657] Yeah, it was not a good shooter.

[1658] In fact, one time I got a break away.

[1659] I like got a rebound or I blocked something.

[1660] And then it was just me. I was out.

[1661] Monica, I was so far ahead of everyone.

[1662] There is no reason I shouldn't have made this layup.

[1663] I would have never missed this layup in real life.

[1664] Oh, pressure.

[1665] But because it was the game, I blew this fucking layup.

[1666] It was the easiest layup.

[1667] That's so surprising to me. Well, can I give you some context?

[1668] Yeah.

[1669] I never had played basketball.

[1670] I didn't have like a rim at my house.

[1671] I didn't have a dad that taught me. So I learned on that team.

[1672] Like I tried to, I had a desire to play.

[1673] but the other kids had been playing basketball for four or five years.

[1674] I know, but you just said you wouldn't have missed that shot otherwise.

[1675] So it's not that you didn't have the ability.

[1676] But it was the second or third time I had shot the ball in a game.

[1677] Right.

[1678] I'm not surprised you didn't get it in.

[1679] I am surprised that you felt nervous under pressure.

[1680] It doesn't seem to match with your personality.

[1681] Well, thank you.

[1682] And I do think I'm calm under fire.

[1683] But certain kinds of things, I guess.

[1684] Do you want to hear a sad part of it that I left out?

[1685] It's the only thing my dad ever had come to see me do.

[1686] Oh, I'm going to add one more layer.

[1687] Oh, my God.

[1688] It was against Highland Junior High, our crosstown rival, where I used to go to school.

[1689] I started junior high at Highland Junior High.

[1690] So I was returning to my school.

[1691] My dad came, which he never, ever came, and I blew this so easy to make shot.

[1692] That is so sad.

[1693] But it also is probably the reason.

[1694] It wasn't just pressure in a bad.

[1695] basketball game, there was added pressure.

[1696] Your dad and then all these other kids who made fun of you.

[1697] I added that part.

[1698] Well, yeah, I don't think anyone.

[1699] Well, we don't know.

[1700] We'll never know.

[1701] But at any rate, you know, what's funny is if you would have asked me that day if I cared my day was there, I would have said, I would have really felt like I didn't.

[1702] I know, but you did.

[1703] Because I had long written them off in my mind.

[1704] But, but now as an adult, clearly I had to have.

[1705] Yes, you of course did.

[1706] There's one more element to this story.

[1707] I can't believe what a big day this was now that we're unpacking it.

[1708] It was also the day that I beat my brother up for the first time.

[1709] I was 13 and he was 18 and I fucking won.

[1710] I pinned him.

[1711] He conceded victory.

[1712] Yeah.

[1713] So also the most momentous thing happened on that same day.

[1714] That's the most momentous thing.

[1715] Absolutely.

[1716] If you've been fighting your brother for 13 years and getting your fucking ass kicked and you finally win, yeah, that's a lot bigger of a deal than scoring a point in a basketball game.

[1717] Okay, so this is probably why you didn't continue in sports.

[1718] Why?

[1719] Because you just said that statement.

[1720] That was way more important to you.

[1721] To anybody who's been being physically controlled by another human being, the day they break out of their chains and they're free?

[1722] Are you kidding?

[1723] But yes and no. I think some people channel a bunch of stuff into sports.

[1724] So for them making that basket, what do they call it?

[1725] basket that sounds that sounds like not someone who knows what they're talking about yeah they makes a shot they made the shot yeah yeah so that feeling would be way like for michael jordan yeah making that basket totally disagree totally because we saw we saw the documentary and the big flame under michael jordan's ass is that he was super competitive with his older brother and he wanted his dad's attention.

[1726] So I bet when he beat his brother in front of his dad, I bet that moment might be as big or bigger than any game winning shot.

[1727] Yes, that's my point.

[1728] It gets channeled.

[1729] It's not a different thing, but it gets channeled into the sport and that that's the thing I'm going to excel at.

[1730] I'm going to be the best at.

[1731] And if he beat his brother up that day.

[1732] Yeah.

[1733] And then he also made the winning shot.

[1734] The winning shot is going, because it just is the same.

[1735] thing.

[1736] It's just channeling power.

[1737] Right, but you can make, and he did, he made hundreds of game -winning shots.

[1738] There's only one moment where you finally are victorious over your older brother.

[1739] That's the one and done.

[1740] Yeah.

[1741] Anyway, it's a fantastic documentary.

[1742] It is.

[1743] Couldn't be better.

[1744] Okay.

[1745] Zoe.

[1746] Zoe Krabbits.

[1747] Zoe Kravitz.

[1748] So at the beginning we were talking about Killian Murphy.

[1749] Oh, yeah.

[1750] And did you figure out how to say?

[1751] It's killing.

[1752] It is killing.

[1753] And we also have had this conversation before, which is why can't we commit it to memory?

[1754] I don't know.

[1755] Well, because the fucking C, I hate the English alphabet.

[1756] Before we move on from Last Dance, I just want to say, we were supposed to interview Rodman a few months back and things fell apart.

[1757] Yeah.

[1758] But I just want to publicly say, if anyone that's listening happens to be friends with Dennis Rodman, I desperately want to interview him.

[1759] I do want to.

[1760] But, but also he owes me $500.

[1761] From what?

[1762] Because I changed my flight, remember?

[1763] Oh.

[1764] I changed my flight and I left a wedding in Michigan at like 4 a .m. Oh.

[1765] And it cost me a lot of money to do that.

[1766] And then he canceled about 10 minutes before he was supposed to do it.

[1767] He might have diarrhea or something.

[1768] No, well, maybe.

[1769] Think I'll walk in, we've had diarrhea over the last couple months.

[1770] And I've never canceled.

[1771] That's true.

[1772] You just take a bunch of pepto.

[1773] We do have a turlet in the attic.

[1774] That would be awesome.

[1775] If Dennis Rodman used our turlet in an emergency situation, open door bathroom, open door emergency.

[1776] I feel so uncomfortable.

[1777] I'm so glad no one's had diarrhea.

[1778] I look forward to that because I feel like I would be able to comfort him.

[1779] Like he'd be so embarrassed and I would just be able to cut right through that awkwardness and put a good spin on it.

[1780] That's like when I'd be up to bat.

[1781] That's when I am game time.

[1782] Now that we know that all he wants is to be liked and loved, I mean, Having diarrhea in the open door toilet is like the worst thing that could ever happen to him.

[1783] So I hope it doesn't happen.

[1784] But it could make us so close afterwards.

[1785] No, that's selfish.

[1786] If I went and hugged him while he was sitting on the toilet.

[1787] You're being selfish.

[1788] But wait, what have you said?

[1789] Oh my God.

[1790] I hugged him while he was still sitting on the toilet.

[1791] And I said, this is awesome, dude.

[1792] This is a weird fantasy of yours.

[1793] Okay.

[1794] Killian.

[1795] Yeah.

[1796] Okay.

[1797] Did Hulk Hogan's kids go to Miami Country Day?

[1798] I don't believe so.

[1799] Oh, okay.

[1800] When I looked up Brooke Hogan, his daughter.

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] It said that she was on the cheerleading squad, so she gets it.

[1803] She's very tall.

[1804] Yeah, she's probably a back spot or a base.

[1805] In Clearwater, Clearwater, Florida.

[1806] Oh, the Scientology Hub.

[1807] It is?

[1808] Yeah, that's where the spiritual center of Scientology.

[1809] Clearwater, Florida.

[1810] That's right.

[1811] Oh, my God.

[1812] That's insane.

[1813] Well, it's not when you think that Elron Hubbard had been in the Navy and that everything in Scientology is based on a nautical maritime.

[1814] time.

[1815] Like, that's why it's OT this.

[1816] All the ranks are naval ranks.

[1817] And so it's on the ocean.

[1818] Wow.

[1819] Yeah.

[1820] It's a seafaring religion.

[1821] Anyway, she went to Clearwater Central Catholic High School.

[1822] Oh, okay.

[1823] But it does say, she only stayed at that school for the first half of freshman year.

[1824] Now, the son, you know, the son killed somebody in a vehicular manslaughter situation.

[1825] I did see that in my research upsetting.

[1826] It is very upsetting.

[1827] It's upsetting for the person who was killed, obviously.

[1828] Their family.

[1829] Their family.

[1830] For the son of Chris, God, you all with that.

[1831] And then for fucking the Hulkster.

[1832] Because when you're famous and your kids fuck up, boy, everyone knows.

[1833] It's already so embarrassing that your kids fuck up.

[1834] But if you're famous, then every interview he's ever done since.

[1835] Probably they're bringing up this thing this kid did.

[1836] I don't know that it's more painful than any other parent who's experiencing that.

[1837] It's a different set of circumstances.

[1838] It's so painful.

[1839] and it's, it's, it's painful privately.

[1840] I think any, all these painful things are best done privately when it's not.

[1841] But private is relative, right?

[1842] Like the people in your community know and then you feel like if you're at the grocery store and you see the person and they know, like it's uncomfortable.

[1843] You want your kids to kill someone in New York City.

[1844] There's just so many people known, no one knows their neighbors.

[1845] No one wants to, no one can be.

[1846] No, it's no one wants their kid to kill anyone.

[1847] I'm just saying if you have to pick a city for it to happen and in privacy is your objective, of probably New York City or Mexico City or Beijing.

[1848] These are the places.

[1849] Small town rural America, you're right.

[1850] Everyone at the post office knows that Glenn's boy had a mishap.

[1851] It's really sad.

[1852] Anyway, it does not seem like they went to Miami Country Day is my conclusion.

[1853] Okay.

[1854] There's like a whole bunch of country days.

[1855] Yeah, Detroit Country Day.

[1856] Yeah, Savannah Country Day.

[1857] My aunt went there.

[1858] Oh, really?

[1859] Yeah.

[1860] Well, I don't know what they're like elsewhere, But in Detroit, that was one of the premier private schools.

[1861] It was a very fancy school.

[1862] But it's, like, weird that it's private, but there, I guess, all over.

[1863] Are they all the same?

[1864] Or is that just a term, like, from the 1800s that many schools have?

[1865] That'd be weird.

[1866] Yeah, I don't know.

[1867] I'm not an expert on fancy schools.

[1868] Well, we are.

[1869] I went to, well, I am an expert on fancy colleges.

[1870] I know nothing about fancy high schools.

[1871] And to be fair, we're not experts on that.

[1872] We're just a sycophant.

[1873] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1874] Okay, so you said a lot of facts in a row quickly.

[1875] Oh, okay.

[1876] 99 .9 % of actors don't work.

[1877] Then of the 0 .01 % that work, the 99 % of those never end up doing a sequel.

[1878] So.

[1879] Hard numbers to compute.

[1880] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1881] But I think I might still be right, even though it's impossible to compute.

[1882] You're not.

[1883] Okay.

[1884] Because 2 % of actors earn a living.

[1885] So 98 % of actors are not earning.

[1886] living.

[1887] Well, is that actors in the guild?

[1888] Probably.

[1889] Right.

[1890] So most of the actors in L .A. aren't even in the guild.

[1891] I was an actor for nine years before I was in the guild.

[1892] I was going on auditions from backstage west.

[1893] I was going to non -union commercials.

[1894] I mean, I guess it depends on like what do you qualify, when do you say that you're an actor?

[1895] When you're pursuing professional acting engagements all day long.

[1896] I think you're an actor.

[1897] You know, me and you got in a conversation once and then I subsequently had this conversation with my dad because we were watching John Oliver.

[1898] There was a guy on there.

[1899] I forget what was happening, but he kept saying he was a geologist.

[1900] Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[1901] And he had a geology degree.

[1902] He had a geology degree.

[1903] He was not working in geology.

[1904] He had another job, whatever.

[1905] He was a politician.

[1906] I think.

[1907] I think that's what this must have been.

[1908] Yes, he was a politician.

[1909] He kept saying, I'm a geologist, I'm a geologist.

[1910] As a geologist, yeah.

[1911] And I feel very adamantly that that That person is not a geologist.

[1912] But just because you have a geology degree does not make you a geologist.

[1913] And you were arguing that with me. And Kristen was a little bit too.

[1914] And I just stand so firmly on that.

[1915] And then I brought that up to my dad because I wondered what his thought was because he has two master's degrees.

[1916] And he has one in engineering and one in computer science.

[1917] Okay.

[1918] And he would never...

[1919] claim to be a computer scientist or a programmer or anything.

[1920] Yet he has a higher education degree in that.

[1921] Yeah, but let me ask you something.

[1922] If you graduate from law school and pass the bar, but you don't practice law, are you not a lawyer?

[1923] No. And if you're a doctor who's passed the medical exam, but you don't have patients, are you not a doctor?

[1924] You're a doctor.

[1925] No, you're not.

[1926] Yes, you are.

[1927] No. I mean, I guess you could say, no, I would require so much qualification.

[1928] I would say, I studied medicine, but I never practiced.

[1929] Like, that is different than a practicing doctor.

[1930] They had to have done a residency probably to get their medical degree.

[1931] As I had to say, I'm not a practicing doctor.

[1932] Okay.

[1933] For me. Someone to me that goes to medical school does a residency and then goes into politics.

[1934] That person's still a doctor.

[1935] They're a doctor for life.

[1936] They are.

[1937] Yeah, I don't.

[1938] If that person becomes a farmer, they're a farmer who has a medical degree or who used to be a doctor.

[1939] I used to be a practicing doctor, now I'm not.

[1940] But I'm a, yeah, I totally disagree.

[1941] I'm a racer.

[1942] I'm not currently racing.

[1943] I am a stand -up comedian.

[1944] I am a sketch comedian.

[1945] I'm an improv comedian.

[1946] I'm not doing any of those things now, but I am those things.

[1947] I am an improv comedian.

[1948] I am a race car driver.

[1949] I am those things.

[1950] They don't go away because I stop doing them.

[1951] I'm not a cheerleader.

[1952] I was a cheerleader.

[1953] If you're not doing something, I don't think you're that anymore.

[1954] I have two degrees.

[1955] I have a theater degree and one in PR.

[1956] I would never say I'm a publicist.

[1957] Right.

[1958] I just have an education in that.

[1959] It's not the same thing.

[1960] Yeah.

[1961] Anyway, it's just an interesting.

[1962] It's an interesting identity question, I think.

[1963] It is.

[1964] My friend Duffy is a Navy SEAL He's not currently a Navy SEAL But that motherfucker's a Navy SEAL But some things you do have for life Because I think they're like stamps of like Well, I don't know actually I don't know how Navy SEALs I don't know anything about that I just know Duffy's a Navy SEAL Which is crazy You can't take that away from someone It's like the most impossible thing to accomplish But it's not taking it away to say He was a Navy SEAL But he was and he is He went through a transformation That will never go away I don't understand the problem in saying I was.

[1965] Like, you have a problem with that.

[1966] Yeah, because you can pursue all kinds of different things, and you can put stuff down and pick them up and put them down and pick them up.

[1967] I'm not racing now, but I might race again next year.

[1968] I'm not not a race car driver because I'm not currently racing a car, and I'll do it next year, and I'm not not a stand -up comedian because I haven't done stand -up in a few years.

[1969] I might do it again.

[1970] You know, like, I just, I don't understand why, just like you can't understand why I think it's still relevant, I can't understand how you think because you haven't done it in a few years that you're not that thing.

[1971] I think it's different for hobbies.

[1972] Uh -huh.

[1973] But if it's a profession, it requires that you spend a lot of time doing that or earn a living doing that.

[1974] It's contributing to your welfare in some way if it's your profession.

[1975] Hobbies, I do think that's a different scenario.

[1976] Uh -huh.

[1977] But I don't think, I mean, I just, like, if I ever said, yeah, I'm a publicist and they'd be like, what have you, I'd be like, oh, I've done nothing.

[1978] I've done absolutely nothing, but I have a PR degree.

[1979] Well, hold on, hold on.

[1980] Being a publicist is a very sliver of what people that major in PR would end up doing.

[1981] So that one, if you said, I'm in public relations, you are.

[1982] No, I'm not.

[1983] You are.

[1984] That would be insane if I said that.

[1985] And that's so.

[1986] offensive to those people who have dedicated their life, who are putting an effort, who are interested in learning more about it.

[1987] I couldn't tell you one thing about what's going on in the world of public relations.

[1988] Well, let me ask you what public relations is.

[1989] Because maybe my definition is wrong.

[1990] What's the definition of public relations?

[1991] I think it's crafting, I think public relations is crafting the messaging and the brand tenants of a company.

[1992] Public relations is the practice of deliberately managing the release and spread of information between an individual or an organization and the public.

[1993] So, I mean, quite literally you're in public relations.

[1994] You are absolutely deciding what messaging makes it to the public on this podcast.

[1995] And you have a degree in that, and it's certainly things you learned in that degree, are factoring into your decisions about what you do and do not release to the public and how you represent this brand, armchair expert, and how you represent Kristen's brand, you're managing Chrison's brand.

[1996] Mainly for hers, I would say more.

[1997] You're in public relations, whether you want to say it or not.

[1998] And you have a degree in it.

[1999] You don't like it.

[2000] Yeah, I don't know.

[2001] I mean, I think it can work the opposite way.

[2002] I think you can be a thing that you don't have a degree in, 100%.

[2003] I think many people are things that they didn't have a degree in.

[2004] That's how they spend their life.

[2005] But I don't think it works the opposite way where you don't spend your life doing the thing.

[2006] You just spent four years getting a degree in something.

[2007] And then you can just call yourself a biologist when you ended up being a basketball player.

[2008] Yeah, I think a guy who gets a degree in biology and goes into working on cars and a guy who gets a degree.

[2009] in biology and goes and teaches at the high school and doesn't advance the field of biology, I think they both have the same knowledge.

[2010] I don't think there's a difference.

[2011] Well, I don't think that's fair to the biology teacher.

[2012] Why?

[2013] It's like learning on the day.

[2014] Also, these things evolve.

[2015] Like the things I learned in 2008 are not the things they're learning right now.

[2016] Things have evolved.

[2017] I'm just saying the degree, a biology degree is a biology degree.

[2018] There's a core course that you have to take and you have to have a knowledge to walk out and say, I have earned this degree.

[2019] Now, whether you take that knowledge and you go teach at high school or you're a mechanic, both people have the exact same knowledge.

[2020] What they've demonstrated is that they have a full and comprehensive understanding of that topic.

[2021] That's what makes them a biologist.

[2022] In my opinion.

[2023] Yeah.

[2024] Yeah, you don't like it.

[2025] I don't agree.

[2026] That gives them a biology degree.

[2027] That gives them the ability to say, I graduated in biology.

[2028] The high school teacher needs to say, I'm a biology teacher.

[2029] The mechanic needs to say, I'm a mechanic.

[2030] The biologist who is learning every day, who is researching every day, who is putting this into practice, can say, I'm a biologist.

[2031] Right.

[2032] Anyway, I wonder what people think.

[2033] I think they're like, who cares?

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] Don't you think?

[2036] Yeah, maybe.

[2037] Okay.

[2038] So Seinfeld's parking garage at the bottom of his house, it's a few blocks.

[2039] It's three blocks away.

[2040] Oh, his garage is three blocks from his house.

[2041] Yes.

[2042] Okay.

[2043] But it's a full building, right?

[2044] It's a full like multi -story parking garage.

[2045] All these articles were from 2000, which is when he started building it.

[2046] It's 20 parking spaces according to the articles I read.

[2047] Oh, that maybe sounds like just one floor.

[2048] I don't think it's a garage.

[2049] Well, I do know he sold most of those Porsches, so maybe he doesn't even need it anymore.

[2050] Yeah.

[2051] Did divorce rates in China skyrocket after COVID?

[2052] Yeah, lots of different articles said yes, a record high in business insider, it said a record high number of divorce requests in recent weeks.

[2053] So with some districts even maxing out the number of appointments available at local government offices.

[2054] Oh, that's hilarious.

[2055] But health officials say the increase could be explained by two factors.

[2056] First, offices have been closed for a month.

[2057] Oh, that makes sense.

[2058] A little backlog.

[2059] Yeah.

[2060] So are likely hit by a wave of delayed request now that they've reopened.

[2061] Secondly, many people have been quarantined in close quarters creating and especially inflammatory environment for marital feuding.

[2062] As a result of the epidemic, many couples have been bound with each other at home for over a month, which evoked the underlying conflicts.

[2063] It is kind of a little glimpse of what retirement will be like with your loved one.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] Yeah, that's true.

[2066] Another official told the global times that many couples regretted the procedure, which many decided to remarry within hours.

[2067] Oh.

[2068] Because I guess there it can happen in like 30 to 40 minutes, it's the process.

[2069] Oh, that's, wow, a fast track.

[2070] Yeah.

[2071] It provides an interesting conundrum for researchers who cannot decide on whether time spent together in close quarters is a good or bad thing for couples.

[2072] In 2018, a study found couples who lived together before marriage had lower divorce rates in the first year, but higher divorce rates in the five years after.

[2073] Interesting.

[2074] Another recent study found living together protected against divorce, and one found it made no difference.

[2075] Ultimately, balance is key.

[2076] Psychologist Rob, Pat, Pascal and Lou Primavera Ph .D. said in the article for psychology today, a mix of time with friends and family, time together as a couple and separate time for each partner add to marital quality, as does an equal split between our circle and activities and those of our partner.

[2077] Can we go back to the biologist conversation?

[2078] Oh, sure.

[2079] If I had to put on a spectrum how definitive I am about that opinion we were just arguing about, it's 53%.

[2080] Okay.

[2081] You know, like there are some things that you and I disagree about.

[2082] Yeah.

[2083] Well, I'm gonna 100 % think that.

[2084] Yeah.

[2085] I just want to be clear that.

[2086] I think it's only a smidgen.

[2087] I'm only a smidgen in that category of thinking that.

[2088] It's just I'm leaning a little over to the side of.

[2089] Where would you say you're at?

[2090] 99.

[2091] I don't feel strongly about it in the way that I'm like, I think about it every day and it's important to me. I just, if that is the option on the table, I have like no wavering thoughts.

[2092] It's very black and white to me. And I'm not even passionate in that debate because I can see your point of view very clearly.

[2093] I don't not see your point of view.

[2094] It makes total sense what you're saying.

[2095] That's all for Zoe.

[2096] That was a good, that was a fun fact check.

[2097] Yeah.

[2098] Zoe was fun too.

[2099] I got so excited about Cuckaroo.

[2100] Do you remember how excited I got this?

[2101] Yes.

[2102] I love Coocaro.

[2103] Yes, she loved it too.

[2104] Miss it, miss it.

[2105] I wish it was around still.

[2106] I've never had it.

[2107] Never will.

[2108] Well.

[2109] Limited edition.

[2110] That might bring it back.

[2111] I remember hoses went out of business and everyone freaked out and someone just bought it.

[2112] I didn't know that.

[2113] Yeah, they went under and then they were acquired, I assume, in bankruptcy.

[2114] And then they, so another company.

[2115] Should we buy it?

[2116] Armchair expert?

[2117] Well, first of all, I don't think we have money.

[2118] Secondly, I think.

[2119] Why?

[2120] If they're dead in the water, we could buy it.

[2121] Oh, cuckaroo we could probably afford.

[2122] Yeah, can we buy that?

[2123] A very distressed asset.

[2124] I'm sure we can pick that up for pennies on the dollar.

[2125] Oh, my God.

[2126] Wow.

[2127] It's exciting.

[2128] We're going into the restaurant business.

[2129] All righty.

[2130] I love you.

[2131] Love you.

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