Part 1: Monica and Jess Love Boys with Dax Shepard

[0] Hi, I'm Monica, a .k .a. miniature mouse.

[1] I love boys.

[2] But I don't have one.

[3] And in fact, I've never had one.

[4] I could probably count on two hands how many dates I've been on in my entire life.

[5] And I decided it's time to change that.

[6] Hi, I'm Jess, and I love boys too.

[7] And in the opposite way of Monica, I can't count on all the hands in America how many people I've had sex with.

[8] And yet, I still don't have a boyfriend.

[9] And I want one.

[10] And I'm Dax.

[11] And I love Monica and Jess in so many ways.

[12] They don't have partners.

[13] And that is a huge mystery to me because they're both incredibly attractive, so fun, so smart, and have so much to offer.

[14] So what we decided to do is examine these unhealthy patterns and bring in experts and outsiders to help critique us, advise us, guide us, pretty much called bullshit on us, so that we can find the romantic companion that we're looking for.

[15] We started this thinking it was going to be just cute little dating challenges that we would go on and talk about and laugh about.

[16] Turns out it is very hard to be vulnerable in real time in public.

[17] Yes, I'm so excited.

[18] We romanticized pathological love.

[19] One to ten.

[20] How much do you want love?

[21] Go.

[22] You can't even get the sentence out.

[23] I would just eat around it.

[24] It's a little selfish.

[25] Why do I want something?

[26] And then why have I designed it to defend?

[27] We must put the chum in the water for the sharks to come.

[28] Monica's like, so apparently I have to join Raya this week.

[29] He likes fucking.

[30] You don't even have a kiss, a handheld, anything.

[31] Your frontal lobe is just in the way.

[32] Push -up, bra, low -cut top.

[33] That's what you should be doing.

[34] Masturbate every night.

[35] Rob's too uncomfortable for this.

[36] Please enjoy part one.

[37] Getting to know Monica and Jess with our dad, Dax Shepherd.

[38] Monica don't like, Monica don't like boys.

[39] Monica love.

[40] Jess don't like, just don't like.

[41] How come we're mirroring each other's hands, do you think?

[42] I don't know why.

[43] Do you have a theory?

[44] Soulmates.

[45] Soulmate hand milk.

[46] ABR.

[47] So, welcome to what is going to be a fun and thrilling experiment.

[48] That's right.

[49] We have long teased the notion of Monica loves boys.

[50] Yep.

[51] And then you and Jess realized what a diamond in the rough you have sitting right in your hip pocket.

[52] I feel like there's a big section of the country that doesn't have a good gay friend or doesn't live in a, a town that has a gay area and then largely oblivious to all the fun stuff that Monica and I have found out.

[53] Yes.

[54] I did tell someone I was doing this today at the gym and they're like, tell them right away that someone that is HIV, they can drink out of someone's glasses and they're fine.

[55] Like, literally like someone's mom just said that to a friend two weeks ago in 2019 that someone had HIV and they said, make sure you don't drink out of his glassware anymore.

[56] I was like, oh no. This is why we're doing this to educate.

[57] I feel like that's a headline from 1989.

[58] I do, too.

[59] But you never know.

[60] But suffice to say, this is not that podcast.

[61] It'll inevitably be an exposure probably to the gay dating scene as for a single man. But primarily, these two loves of my life, both are without a long -term partner currently.

[62] Yeah.

[63] I don't want to misrepresent your position.

[64] I'm a little nervous.

[65] You've got me on my heels.

[66] I'm editing.

[67] No one makes you nervous.

[68] It's more.

[69] Right?

[70] I don't make you nervous.

[71] No, not at all.

[72] I wish I did it a little bit.

[73] But no, they each come with different.

[74] It's a whole suite of things.

[75] So you and I have got into all kinds of naughty business together.

[76] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[77] So I feel safe to be really naughty with you.

[78] Yeah.

[79] And you've yelled at me a couple times, too.

[80] A couple of amends have come your way.

[81] Not big ones, though.

[82] Well, Monica's been on the business end of some amends as well.

[83] Yeah.

[84] I feel like I have to ask for them, but yeah.

[85] But you guys are both.

[86] Both love boys.

[87] I mean, Monica's very known for loving boys, but to know Jess is to know that Jess loves boys, too.

[88] And I got to say, one of the things I applaud most about your appetite for boys is it's a wide fucking nap.

[89] When we're watching shows, right, Monica?

[90] It's the villain.

[91] He's got a limp.

[92] He's supposed to look repugnant.

[93] And Jess is like, I think I'd fuck him.

[94] I think I'd fuck him.

[95] Who is it the craziest one recently that we were watching?

[96] And he was, well, definitely the stranger things guy, of course, but that's natural.

[97] Well, there's guys at my...

[98] The demigorgon?

[99] There's if you had a big dick, you know.

[100] Yeah.

[101] No, I'm kidding.

[102] But there's guys at the gym.

[103] Well, you're not kidding.

[104] That's part of it.

[105] I'm not kidding.

[106] No. We'll get deeper into that throughout this process.

[107] There's guys at the gym that I call him, that's my boyfriend.

[108] And then that's my regular boyfriend because he's got like a three or four big flaws.

[109] And then there's other guys and at one point my trainer goes, just who would you not fuck like let's play that game and I go not a lot of people in here not a lot of guys I wanted to just preface you have issues and I have issues they're pretty much the opposite ones or maybe they're the same ones but they are manifesting in extremely opposite ways yes and we will over the process of this show exploration yes exploration we are going to deep dive into why we have these things and why they're manifesting the way they are.

[110] And we're going to give each other challenges at the end of each episode so that we can evolve out of these patterns that are causing us to just be in our same space.

[111] We want to grow.

[112] That's the armchair expert model.

[113] Evolution.

[114] I presume you'll bring in experts who we will.

[115] Because I'll have opinions, but we're all so interconnected that most opinions I would have are probably be true.

[116] Well, we found out when I, the time, you and I have almost no arguments, Jess, over the last, how long have we been friends, six, 17 years?

[117] 19 years.

[118] Very few arguments.

[119] The ones we've had that were actually emotional is when I have been critical of who you date or critical of your approach in dating.

[120] That cuts to the quick when we have that conversation.

[121] And similarly, when I, Monica, you and I have them, they get emotional.

[122] pretty quick.

[123] Relationships are kind of you're offering your whole self to someone or not offering your whole self to someone like me and there's nothing more vulnerable about that.

[124] It's also ivory tower of someone that has never had a relationship problem and it's banged the hottest girls and married the hottest women and you're like shut the fuck up.

[125] Not shut.

[126] Yeah, a little bit.

[127] Of course.

[128] Also, we will dive into it.

[129] There's a whole other area which I've talked to Monica about millions of times of this gay issue with feminists.

[130] and masculine and top and bottom and grinder and tender and what have they gone through in their gay experience that they have a great i mean i was very lucky to not have a lot of adroversy what is it uh no adversity adversity i'm really pretty but you say you're the only person i know that says as many words incorrectly as i do which has revealed itself to be endearing to the audience so say um the latin phrase for tit for tat uh prid prid quote quote quid pro quo you did it quid pro quo but I would say the closer you are to somebody and the better they know you and the more you feel like they actually know you the harder it is to shrug off their assessment of you you know like if I have like a third tier friend that's like Dax you're blank right it's kind of easy for me to go like they don't really know me but it gets it gets harder when someone knows you really really well and makes an observation don't you think yeah I think that's true I also think you can know someone really well, and because you know them so well, you get locked in.

[131] Like, I could be locked in as someone to you, and Jess could be locked in as someone to you as well.

[132] Because we've presented ourselves a certain way to you for so long.

[133] So I think it's harder to accept change from a person you've been around for a very long time.

[134] Yes.

[135] And just to bring everyone up to speed, so by my recollection, and maybe I'm wrong, you've had two long -term relationships, Jess.

[136] Yeah, I've three boyfriends total.

[137] One, three months, one, 11 months, and one broke up, but then got back together, so maybe 15 months.

[138] Okay.

[139] And the first one when you were at what age?

[140] 35.

[141] 35.

[142] And I lost for a virginity at 30.

[143] So we're starting with the pretty honest assessment of the situation, which is neither of you are in long -term relationships.

[144] You'd both like to be in long -term relationships.

[145] Or is that even true?

[146] That's not the point.

[147] The point is...

[148] It's not The Bachelor.

[149] No one's getting married at the end of this.

[150] Well, we don't know, maybe.

[151] Maybe that would be the last challenge.

[152] But the point is to get out of the ruts, to break the patterns.

[153] Those are the hardest things to do in order to grow.

[154] I don't look at anyone in my life and I go, I need that.

[155] I think that I have curated an amazing group of friends and family members and an amazing life.

[156] I do think I'm my best self when I had a boyfriend.

[157] I think I get into trouble and I think I get a little mischievous when I have more time on my hand but when I have time to focus on someone else instead of myself I like myself better but I don't need a boyfriend but I definitely would want one the gay thing was very interesting to me I had no idea really I'm like why is everyone calling me Jessica like I was the star basketball player and I had a girlfriend and then I didn't understand it really and then I was also buying these guys $90 jeans and singing the national anthem before my own game and like there was this thing where in 1980 whatever seven or 1990 i didn't understand it really being gay was very i think that's a thing but i didn't understand it so that was all through high school really quick when you were masturbating at that age what were you thinking about i think guys i think guys yeah but i don't know what being gay was what i've always thought about guys even when i was four or five i used to play around this this kid in sweden i remember i always just thought it was normal i didn't think it was like what gay was and that was later on at 18 and 19 going to West Hollywood and go to Axis or these it's in overbars and like oh this is a lifestyle this is this is this and that it was an identity kind that was an identity which I didn't understand for for very long then I joined the groundlings and then it was no I'm just funny I was eight years there I was I was four classes a week I was a one -dimensional I would do gay characters I would flirt with straight guys constantly like to get there were you get were you openly gay?

[158] I think I was, yeah.

[159] When I met you, you were openly gay.

[160] Yeah.

[161] I don't think I ever was in the closet, but I never had a boyfriend and never kissed a guy and never had sex.

[162] Right.

[163] So I was this one -dimensional, funny guy with a bit of a stomach and zits around my mouth and yellow teeth.

[164] He loves to talk about the zits around his mouth.

[165] I did.

[166] I wasn't cute.

[167] I thought I was really cute.

[168] Dax will say, like, I thought I was so cute until I actually got cute.

[169] One of my things that I did want to think about is why I always needed these.

[170] great guy's approval and always wanted to make them think I was not a typical gay person, which was through my whole life, which was early 90s.

[171] And when I met him in 98 or 99, I thought, wow, I remember.

[172] You don't remember.

[173] Just like, I need this person.

[174] I would write letters to decks in class just need this person's approval so much, which I didn't want from women and or gay men.

[175] Still, to this day, at the gym, like, there's plenty of gay guys at the gym that I'm not even talking to.

[176] but those two hot street one I want them to think of me being gay as the third thing Yeah you don't want that to be The first to label on your identity That guy is super funny He's tall He's a jock He's a jock all these things And then like And he happens to be gay That's so cool There's so many theories I have for that One is they're unobtainable If you could get them to like you That what an exhibit of your Attractiveness if someone Who would not be Hard to get Yeah is it that or is it that the straightness innately is exuding some kind of masculinity and you're attracted to masculinity?

[177] Like, do you have a theory on why that's the prize or the both?

[178] Uh -huh.

[179] Like, you know what I really want in a perfect world in my lifetime, which I don't see it happening, is what girls are doing.

[180] They're dating girls for years and being lesbians and then going back to being straight.

[181] Like, I want straight guys to do that.

[182] I want there to be a fluidity in it.

[183] Which I think increasingly, right?

[184] Yeah.

[185] Younger people are more fluid But I don't think you can hope that for guys who aren't attracted to men, which you will still want that.

[186] I know.

[187] It won't be the guys who are fluid.

[188] Right, right.

[189] You'll still want this guy who doesn't.

[190] Yeah, you're right.

[191] It's inherently set up to be a disappointment on some level.

[192] Like if I only liked lesbians, you know?

[193] Right.

[194] There's probably only so many issues people have.

[195] Maybe there's like five actual issues and they're just getting disseminated in different ways and they're getting manifested in different ways.

[196] But I have all those issues.

[197] Yeah.

[198] And you know, you said, I think maybe we'll find out it's this same side of the same coin.

[199] Yeah.

[200] Which ultimately on the outside and I don't want to trigger anyone, I do think it's the same thing.

[201] And then just manifested in completely different ways.

[202] But from the outside looking in, So Jess dates a lot, and date is a strong word for what you're doing.

[203] Yeah, it's not the conventional date.

[204] People are thinking from, you know, when Harry met Sally, my best friend's wedding.

[205] It is a, it's a throw gay spaghetti on the wall and let's see what hits.

[206] And I'm leading with sex sometimes and I'm leading with dates sometimes.

[207] When they are pro, pro, pro, pro dating only, I'm really heavily.

[208] Well, let's have sex first.

[209] If they're, I'm only sex, I'm only this and now, I'm like, let's meet at a bar first.

[210] So I want them to be, I want them to be, I want them to be able to hold their own at a White House and a bathhouse.

[211] Like, I want them to be able to be cool in public that I can meet my rad friends and also be a beast in bed.

[212] It's really a lot of sex.

[213] Yes.

[214] not a lot as much as I used to I mean there was a time where I came out of 30 I was 28 guys a week Hold on let's just do the math on that 28 guys yeah so 7 times 3 would be 21 times 4 would be 28 so 4 Sometimes 4 7 in one day was my max Okay great This was a long time ago though folks But don't you think you go through phases of this It'll never go away It's streaky there was a period where you didn't fuck for almost a year right or only...

[215] Oh, because I was fat.

[216] There we go.

[217] Okay.

[218] Yeah.

[219] But it is streaky.

[220] It's like there's a lot and then there's none and then there's a lot and then there's none.

[221] Not unlike...

[222] Look, I'll say it.

[223] Jess has this incredible relationship with drugs and alcohol which I couldn't maintain that you can party really hard, but you don't have the frequency.

[224] Right.

[225] But you can go hard.

[226] I think hard is what you did.

[227] I've seen hard in some people's world.

[228] Monica's world, I can go hard.

[229] Right.

[230] Yes.

[231] But not in a hard that I've seen in this community slash hard for me is going three days.

[232] Uh -huh.

[233] Yeah.

[234] But I can go three or four days a week a lot.

[235] Right.

[236] Right.

[237] I think what you're actually doing, you're protective of the conclusion, maybe a little bit.

[238] Explain that.

[239] Like, there's just facts.

[240] Like, you're streaky.

[241] Okay.

[242] Sometimes you don't fuck a lot.

[243] Sometimes you fuck a ton.

[244] That's just a fact.

[245] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[246] But you're nervous.

[247] You're like, trying to protect whether the conclusion of that is you're an addict or not an addict.

[248] Maybe I shouldn't even said the word addict.

[249] But it's just like the facts are I've known you for 19 years.

[250] Sometimes you fuck a ton.

[251] And then sometimes you're not fucking for what it feels to me like a year.

[252] Right.

[253] Yeah.

[254] You got to kind of take in those things and not try to adjust what it means maybe.

[255] I've never been single for this long.

[256] So they're starting I'm starting.

[257] So the last one was Greg.

[258] And that ended four years ago.

[259] And And the boyfriends before that, everyone just landed in my lap.

[260] And I thought this was easy.

[261] So for the last four years, have been interesting for me that it's just not happening.

[262] I thought that was something that just happens.

[263] Did you meet any of the three?

[264] And I'm going to limit it to two personally, just because I've met to him out with two.

[265] Oh, yeah.

[266] You didn't met the 18 -year -old.

[267] Right.

[268] That was three months.

[269] And that was actually, I needed that so much.

[270] That was so exciting.

[271] And he had been out seven years and I was only out sexually five years.

[272] as much as that age difference was different, he was an amazing lesson in holding hands and writing each other notes and being in love and taking each other to...

[273] Yeah, and going to Laker games and giving each other flowers.

[274] I needed that at 35 years old.

[275] I didn't have that at 16 years old like most people do at proms.

[276] So I loved that relationship.

[277] But the two that I'm familiar with, did you meet either of them online?

[278] Both.

[279] I meet everyone online.

[280] I met Tim on Grindr, and I met Greg.

[281] on Tinder.

[282] Grindr and Tinder.

[283] And Tinder is more dating.

[284] But it's the same people and that's what I'm seeing now.

[285] They're just showing different sides of themselves and different pictures and nicer bios.

[286] Yeah.

[287] But I love seeing that they're on both because I'm on both and I'm trying to pit each other against each other sex or dating.

[288] Well.

[289] And they're all doing that.

[290] And I was wondering when you see that somebody says they're only in it for dating, do you immediately assume, oh, they're bad in bed?

[291] Sometimes.

[292] Because I feel like that's what I would think.

[293] They're not.

[294] They're just interested in dating because they probably know that there's a high probability that they're going to enter these situations where sex is going to be first on the table.

[295] And they are like, no, I don't want to do that anymore.

[296] Oh, yeah.

[297] And I think there's a lot of guys like that.

[298] But I also think even if you're gay, you're going to fall into a stereotype of like, well, wait, I want to fuck all time.

[299] And he's a dude he should want to fuck all the time he doesn't want to fuck all the time why doesn't he want to fuck all the time that's suspicious like you just like something stinks but these are just again like stereotypes stereotypes of men in general that aren't true that we've decided are true they're not for everyone at all times I didn't have sex with my last ex till five or six states in I think that's why it worked in a way there is something to be said for you know cherries in the what's there's just cherries in the juice or waiting for the...

[300] Oh, cherries and the Jews.

[301] Oh, my gosh.

[302] You know, save it all for the gander.

[303] I don't know.

[304] There's something.

[305] So far.

[306] Cherries and the Jews save for the gander.

[307] I know the saying where you like, leave them, leave some, leave some things in the room.

[308] Leave some in the engine.

[309] Oh, boy.

[310] Leave some money on the table.

[311] Yeah, so you can get it later.

[312] I don't know.

[313] You guys, I'm on to something.

[314] There's the saying, the fact checks says, don't give them all the thing.

[315] Don't give them the milk for free.

[316] If you want to get the cow.

[317] No, you're not going to buy it.

[318] the cow if you're getting the milk for free.

[319] Oh, that's the one?

[320] Oh, my God.

[321] Wow.

[322] What a journey.

[323] Wow, wow, wow.

[324] We are supported by OKCupid.

[325] You all know that Jess and I are very dedicated to becoming better at dating this year.

[326] That's what this podcast is all about.

[327] OKCupid has offered to help us out by giving us some tips to be better at this endeavor.

[328] So here are a few of them.

[329] Okay, this will help us.

[330] Okay.

[331] One, update your profile often.

[332] This is a dating app hack.

[333] Ooh, you like hacks.

[334] The more you update your profile, the more people you will be shown to.

[335] Two, stop sending hay as a first message.

[336] That's really good because I think I do that.

[337] Literally anything you can do to make the message more meaningful will increase your chances of getting a response.

[338] And with OKCupid's rich profiles, you should have a lot of material for inspiration.

[339] You know what I like about OKCupid?

[340] they match you up based on the things that you're actually into as opposed to just generalities about you because they ask you like really cool questions.

[341] How are you feeling about the 2020 election?

[342] Do you listen to podcasts?

[343] How do you feel about kids?

[344] How do you feel about coffee dates?

[345] Ooh.

[346] You like coffee dates.

[347] I do.

[348] And by the way, it works.

[349] They're the number one dating app mentioned in the New York Times wedding section.

[350] So stop the mindless time on other apps and go to the app where you choose what matters.

[351] Okay, Cupid is free.

[352] I don't even have to give you one of those super long U .S. with the code.

[353] Download OKCupid today and go on a great date this week.

[354] And then tell us about that great person you met.

[355] We might come to the wedding.

[356] We are supported by Helix Sleep.

[357] Jess, I think you're very unique.

[358] Monica, I think you're very unique too.

[359] Thank you.

[360] And you know what?

[361] Everyone's unique.

[362] And that's why we each sleep on a Helix mattress designed specifically for our body types and sleep preferences.

[363] Helix has a sleep quiz that takes two minutes to complete.

[364] It was so fast.

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[367] So if you like a mattress that's really soft or firm or you sleep on your side or your back, what do you sleep?

[368] I'm a side sleeper.

[369] Me too.

[370] I'm a side sleeper.

[371] But do you sleep hot?

[372] With Helix, they have all kinds of specific mattresses for each and everybody's unique taste.

[373] So yes, my mattress is a Helix sunset, which makes me a side sleeper and I wanted some balanced support and a little bit of a plush feel.

[374] And what are you?

[375] I took the test.

[376] and I am a midnight mattress.

[377] So medium firmness and then side sleeper, so comfortable.

[378] Oh my gosh.

[379] Isn't it the best?

[380] Yes.

[381] It's big for my body and it's so comfortable.

[382] And you hadn't replaced your mattress in like 10 years, right?

[383] So this was...

[384] Nine years, yeah.

[385] And doesn't it make a huge difference having a nice new mattress?

[386] Yes.

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[388] Go to helixleep .com slash Monica.

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[391] It's also relevant to say that you guys, you two, Jess and Monica, live a block from each other, which is fun.

[392] And you guys often, a couple nights a week, go out to happy hour.

[393] We're going tonight.

[394] Yeah, right after this.

[395] Yeah.

[396] So you two are like girlfriends.

[397] You guys go out to Happy Hour and you talk about guys and relationships and all this kind of stuff in life.

[398] Sure, but I'm going to have to be PC here and say it doesn't have to be girlfriends.

[399] Because a guy and a girl can talk about these types of things.

[400] Oh, yeah, but I would describe Panay and I as girlfriends.

[401] Right.

[402] Again, that's a stereotype of the way girls communicate.

[403] Well, the reality, even both Dr. Wendy Mogul and Dr. Alex will say guys don't look to look at each other in the eyes and talk.

[404] Like if you have a son, you should take him on a walk or play basketball.

[405] Because they've been trained.

[406] Yes.

[407] So that's just the reality of the world.

[408] We live and hopefully we'll train boys differently.

[409] But currently, it's rare for two guys to go out and look at each other across the table.

[410] I like to do it a lot.

[411] You do that.

[412] You do it all the time.

[413] Yeah.

[414] But I was also raised by a woman.

[415] I didn't, you know, whatever.

[416] I know that what I'm doing isn't the most common thing.

[417] Sure.

[418] But I'd like to make it way more common.

[419] And I think labeling it as girlfriend talk is no. not getting closer to that.

[420] But I'm just perpetuating them.

[421] Because guys don't want to be girls.

[422] Another thing that.

[423] Well, I do.

[424] But anyways, you guys go out to happy hour all the time.

[425] And you really have fun and you have like, what do you have wine?

[426] Sometimes wine, sometimes roll the dice.

[427] Oh, tell me about roll the dice.

[428] Oh, I'll tell you about roll the dice.

[429] Basically, it's pick your own spirit.

[430] You pick your own spirit and then they can choose your own adventure.

[431] So you could get something in a goblet that's creamy.

[432] You can get something on the rocks.

[433] It's more of like an old fashion.

[434] You can get a mule.

[435] that's going to come with like ginger and then they walk it to you and then they describe it this is a penicillin it has honey bourbon and then they build it for you but every single roll the dice they have to walk over and describe it Oh so you get a lot of face time It's a surprise Oh surprise But we've been going so long that we're like Oh goblet, red velvet We'll know the name We'll know what's in it We know all the servers I actually bring a lot of dates there too So now they're like Thumbs up thumbs down Like a lot of first dates are there because it's a block away from my bed.

[436] Yes.

[437] I guess going back to the girlfriend's thing.

[438] I think the reason, too, I went there is it, for me, who's jealous of you guys being single and getting to go out at night for happy hour.

[439] The irony.

[440] And being jealous that you guys can drink.

[441] And I lost that right.

[442] To me, it sounds like sex in the city.

[443] Sure.

[444] Like you guys meeting up for cosmopolitans and talking.

[445] Sure.

[446] That's, I think, why I get jealous.

[447] Okay.

[448] Now, Monica, for the people who have heard it, the Denver Live show.

[449] show.

[450] We kind of got into your history with boys.

[451] Yeah.

[452] Touched.

[453] Well, we know there was the boy in junior high that you liked and at the swimming pool.

[454] He said he liked you, but he couldn't be with you because your parents worked at Dairy Queen.

[455] Yes.

[456] That was a big, bad moment.

[457] And I would argue a pivotal moment for you.

[458] Oh, it was a watershed moment for sure.

[459] A watershed.

[460] It was.

[461] It was.

[462] It just confirmed all the things I was afraid were true, but was hoping that it wasn't true.

[463] You're like, I'm blending in.

[464] This is working.

[465] They're not aware of the fact that I'm Indian.

[466] And then he just fucking crushed all those dreams.

[467] Oliup slam dunked.

[468] He did.

[469] I'm very upset about that story.

[470] But you know what?

[471] If it wasn't that story, it would have been another story.

[472] It would have been something else to confirm the thing I was afraid was true because it was true.

[473] But my long, it was true.

[474] Well, my parents do not work at Dairy Queen.

[475] No, they don't.

[476] That wasn't true, but.

[477] And I'm sure it would be hard for you to have any empathy for him.

[478] But I also imagine he liked you and he starts thinking, well, if I'm with her, then I'm going to be.

[479] Like people are going to say, oh my God, her parents work at Dairy Queen.

[480] So he too is operating on this fear.

[481] He got caught in that fear.

[482] Right.

[483] He obviously was afraid.

[484] But that, of course, I can be empathetic to a point.

[485] I mean, sympathetic to a point.

[486] of that.

[487] Like, let me ask you, because you were already nervous about being other.

[488] Yeah.

[489] If you had taken a liking to the one Vietnamese guy in your school, do you think you would have gone, fuck, I like him, but I don't need another thing.

[490] I don't need to be the Indian girl dating the one Vietnamese guy.

[491] Of course.

[492] You think that might have happened to you?

[493] I guess that's what I mean about the Japanese.

[494] Well, it didn't happen because my.

[495] self -loathing was so strong I'm prefaceing this is a horrible, horrible thing that's true, but I would never have been attracted to someone who wasn't what I deemed higher status than me. Right, the group you wanted to be in.

[496] Yeah.

[497] Yeah.

[498] So I would never have fallen in love with the Vietnamese guy at that age.

[499] You don't think, what if you were seated next to the Vietnamese guy and he started telling you about how much he loved Goodwill Hunting and then he watches the movie on his eyelids?

[500] Like you would have been like, oh my God.

[501] This is perfect, but there's no way.

[502] I would, honestly, I would have thought, oh, no, this must be something that.

[503] Others do.

[504] And now I got to pick a new movie, and it can't be that.

[505] And I can't tell anyone that I like that movie.

[506] Right.

[507] So, sure.

[508] It's horrible.

[509] Oh, it's horrible.

[510] But it's long been my theory, and I've said it to you many times and said it on here many times, and I've witnessed it in real life.

[511] I think post the swim party You miss when people are hot for you Like it really goes over your head I've observed it You're shaking your head no I have observed it I was vindicated and proven right one time Yes I don't know how on earth You could still pretend That he wasn't attracted to you When you guys went on dates and made out And I don't think it was attracted to me At like the parties I think he was I don't think people go on dates with people they weren't attracted to at the party.

[512] When they have a lot of options.

[513] He has all the options.

[514] Also, when you go to a party, I'm scanning 18 people that I'm attracted to and then I go on with the party.

[515] Like, you know what I'm saying?

[516] I'm not, I already know the people I would have sex with, but I'm not, you could have been scanned without you knowing that you're hot and that you have nice boobies and a beautiful face and then move on.

[517] And maybe just because he wasn't showing a lot of attention to me, it's already clocked.

[518] But I also say she has a, Terrible muscle memory of basically the last time she acknowledged someone had those feelings.

[519] Because you did know that boy liked you, which is why you said to your friend.

[520] Yeah, we were flirting.

[521] We liked each other.

[522] Yes.

[523] Well, that's why it was so painful is it felt like, oh, I'm never going to be able to have the thing I want because of this thing I can't control.

[524] I linked that to the rest of my life.

[525] Yeah, and for my own clarification, when that happened, did you think to yourself, oh, he didn't really like me at all?

[526] Or did you think, oh, he likes me, but he can't be with me because I'm other?

[527] That.

[528] Okay, so you did accept that he liked you, though.

[529] Yeah, I did.

[530] Okay, good.

[531] But here's the thing.

[532] You're outvoted.

[533] You're hot.

[534] Yeah.

[535] You have a fucking rocking body.

[536] Dudes get boners looking at you.

[537] That is a fact.

[538] That's just a fact.

[539] Jess is thinking.

[540] Well, he's trying to imagine getting a boner looking at.

[541] I just, I think they think it, but I don't think in this day and age now, people are heavily flirting and coming up and like, it is so much more nuance now.

[542] In the 80s, guys would be groping you at the grocery store and they weren't.

[543] I mean, I was three.

[544] You were a child, yeah.

[545] You just went on a date.

[546] I mean, I don't know if we were to talk about that, but you, he was, it was three hours.

[547] And it was nice.

[548] And I go, did he flirt with you?

[549] And you're like, I don't know.

[550] But there was.

[551] It's just this more hipster.

[552] 19, 2000, what is it?

[553] 19, 1980.

[554] I think that they are all a little bit taking a step back and it's not going to be like nice tits like you're saying.

[555] Right, right, right, right, right.

[556] Yeah, like when Brie and I came out of the river there in Austin, the guy said you got all the right shit.

[557] No one's really, I don't know that many people are saying that anymore.

[558] After the dairy queen, how long did you shut down?

[559] Did you know you shut down?

[560] Okay, so, yes, that's a great question.

[561] Better than all mine.

[562] Okay, continue.

[563] No. No, no. Have you ever been jealous of our friendship?

[564] No. Really happy for your friendship.

[565] Oh, good.

[566] Because I really thought both of you need each other a lot.

[567] Because she is the ultimate rule follower.

[568] Uh -huh.

[569] You're the ultimate rule breaker.

[570] He knows how to have fun.

[571] He knows how to be carefree and not overthink stuff.

[572] Like, I see you guys as being very beneficial for each other.

[573] I've always thought that.

[574] I was so grateful when you guys met that you hit it off really quick.

[575] And I was like, this is exactly who each other does.

[576] needs.

[577] That's nice.

[578] What if the end of this podcast is you guys fucking on the couch?

[579] Sometimes when Monica laughs at my jokes, I secretly hope that you think, she doesn't laugh at mine like that.

[580] Well, oh, no, we've had that specifically.

[581] Like, she can watch you go, fuckies, and make the ugliest face in the world and laugh and say, just do it again.

[582] And if I go like, she's already throwing out, you know?

[583] And I'm so I'm jealous of that.

[584] You're totally her brother.

[585] Yeah.

[586] I'm still not her brother yet.

[587] Yeah.

[588] Yeah, definitely it's brother.

[589] I'm her little brother.

[590] Okay, sorry, you shut down.

[591] Yeah, so I kind of shut down, but I don't think I knew I shut down.

[592] And really what happened is I thought that I was just picking people I liked and I couldn't have them.

[593] Like, I would pick Richard O 'Cardy.

[594] He was a senior.

[595] Ooh.

[596] Or was he a junior?

[597] Whatever.

[598] He was older than me. By how many grades?

[599] I think two.

[600] That's acceptable.

[601] He was on the football team and he was so cute and I would like draw pictures about Richard O 'Cardy and Monica O 'Cardy and Mrs. O 'Cardy.

[602] Like I would do all of that.

[603] My friends and I would like make each other pictures and then trade them in the hallway about the people we liked and stuff.

[604] The thing is like we would do that.

[605] But my person was always a fantasy.

[606] I was never going to be with Richard O 'Cardy.

[607] He didn't know me. I was a stranger to him and my other friends would pick people who they would fantasize about and they would write Mrs. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[608] But they would date those people.

[609] Right.

[610] Okay, but really quick, is it possible they were setting more realistic expectations than you were?

[611] Yes, I think that's what was happening is I was picking people subconsciously that was going to confirm this again idea I had that no one would want to be with you.

[612] Yeah.

[613] Yeah, I think so too.

[614] and I do the same thing with these guys at the gym or these straight people or yeah yeah it's a very common thing well here's well and here's the part where I'll just jump towards the end which I see in both of you it's maddening to me it breaks my heart I could start crying that neither of you understand how attractive you are in the deepest deepest deepest way and in different ways but it's the same.

[615] And it's heartbreaking.

[616] I mean, I see that about Jess.

[617] I see that about Monica.

[618] It's intense.

[619] You're right.

[620] It's intense.

[621] And it almost makes me angry.

[622] It's all the narrative.

[623] I didn't start dating until this age.

[624] Guys in the gay community are this way.

[625] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[626] People don't like that.

[627] It's all a story.

[628] And hers is I set my things too high.

[629] I'm going to self -fulfilling prophecy.

[630] This guy's never going to like me. It is maddening.

[631] It is interesting that this is happening because I've seen.

[632] seen that a million times when we're talking.

[633] I just want to kind of shake you.

[634] I mean, I'd hurt you because I'm 230 pounds.

[635] Yeah, Jess is six.

[636] Just is the tall friend we always referenced.

[637] I'm 6 .5 225.

[638] Well, technically he's a freak.

[639] I think the scientific term is a freak.

[640] You're the barometer of all things tall in our life.

[641] Like, if we see a giraffe, they go, I think that's two Jesses.

[642] You're synonymous with tall.

[643] I will say one thing, though.

[644] I think we are insecure in conceited body.

[645] There's a part of us that are very confident.

[646] There's a juxtaposition that is interesting because we don't have...

[647] Well, there's a difference between confidence and self -esteem.

[648] You guys are both confident.

[649] You're both smart enough to know that you can't pursue comedy and be insecure on stage.

[650] It will not work.

[651] You're both smart enough to have recognized that.

[652] You're moniker smart enough to know that you have to walk into an audition and exude confidence and shake the person's hand and look in their eyes and be self -assured.

[653] But that doesn't mean that you go home and look in the mirror and go, of course, that guy I like would like me back.

[654] Those are like two completely different things.

[655] Yes.

[656] And then my complaint about you, which we, this is where it always gets heated between you and I, is you're an absolute unicorn.

[657] And then you're trying to play a game that is just pedestrian and for everyone.

[658] And it's so frustrating to me. And you'll say in the gay community, people are more aesthetic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[659] and I know all the reasons, but in my mind, you just said it.

[660] You don't fuck when you're not in the shape you want to be in, and you fuck a lot when you're in shape.

[661] That's true.

[662] And the least, the least, it's a hundredth on the list.

[663] If I was listing things about Jess, even when you're at your peak physical fitness, and I was telling a friend of mine about Jess or on this podcast, I've talked about you 1100 times.

[664] Number ones have I mentioned you're in good shape.

[665] I don't give a flying fuck.

[666] It is the least interesting thing about you.

[667] It's the least magical thing about you.

[668] No one that knows you and loves you would even list how you physically look in a list.

[669] It's like me thinking people like me because I'm a good driver.

[670] Right.

[671] But someone that has been known as the funny guy and that is fun around parties or make us laugh or do this joke, Jess, or be this thing.

[672] You want what you don't have.

[673] I want to be hot.

[674] I want to feel like.

[675] Me too.

[676] Me too.

[677] Exactly.

[678] I have always, since I was young.

[679] has been about sing that song, be the jester or all that.

[680] And I'm not, for me, I love that part of me, too.

[681] But I want to be touched.

[682] I want to be like, dude, that guy's lips are amazing.

[683] That guy's hair, I want to run my hands through his hair.

[684] I want to grab his hand and like, everything I want is physical.

[685] Yes, I have the exact same thing.

[686] We've talked many times on here that I would want for someone to say after they met me in order, he's hot.

[687] But it's maddening when you say it.

[688] I'm so sorry.

[689] I love you so much But when I first met you That is all I thought You were this tight wife beater With your tats And you were tan And you were funny And you were just like We walked out and saw You lost me a tan He was he was tan as fuck We walked down and saw your You got on your motorcycle It was me and as our teacher And she was head over heels And I'm like sick him I love him I can't sick him Can you sick him And she was going for you hard I'll never forget it I'll never forget it The difference is I believe in your insecurity, because I know you well, but your insecurity in that way has not stopped you in this realm.

[690] I was about to go down that path, which is, now here's where I will grant.

[691] Both of you, there's a difference here.

[692] You weren't being you in high school, so you weren't having the experimental phases I was where I was very insecure in ninth and tenth grade.

[693] I think I looked like a monster and it was too skinny and I had fucking acne zits around my mom.

[694] mouth.

[695] I had braces on.

[696] Okay.

[697] And then I had a perm on top and then long straight hair and back.

[698] And I didn't have the fucking Jordans and all the Z. Cavaricis everyone had.

[699] All list, list, list, list.

[700] But I was able to experiment and just try saying hi to a girl and being very confident and trying it on, even though I didn't believe it in the moment, trying on a character where I was confident.

[701] And I'll grant you you didn't have that.

[702] I can't expect you to have done what I did, which was, okay, I'm not.

[703] betting on my looks that's off the table i don't feel good about my looks i have but i can make people love me with my personality and i got to experiment with that and it worked and then i'll also say to you it's not it's not the same for you either it's not fair to you monica because in general guys aren't going to date a girl based on her personality first so even in the depths of your insecurity i agree that it's more challenging for you to go but i'm just going to be the smartest best funny girl in the world and the jock's going to want to date me anyways.

[704] So I recognize that both dynamics are different.

[705] I was able to find a confidence based on my personality where I believed I could land any girl.

[706] I was lucky enough to be a straight white male in a high school where I could experiment with that.

[707] You really couldn't, you really couldn't.

[708] So those are the handicaps I'm giving you.

[709] I don't know if she doesn't think she's hot.

[710] I think she, I'm just saying, I, if I can be a little bit honest, I think you think you're a little better than everyone in some.

[711] Oh, okay.

[712] Okay.

[713] I think, I mean, I'm just saying in, maybe it came up across.

[714] Well, but I think it's more specifically, you think I want the best one and the best one's not going to like me. Yeah.

[715] That's what it is.

[716] I mean, in a nutshell.

[717] You definitely don't think you're better than people in life.

[718] That's not what I meant.

[719] I think I know what you mean in that.

[720] I do think there are a lot of people that I'm not attracted to.

[721] Yes.

[722] And that's not even, I think, I know that from life and experience.

[723] Maybe this has been another learned pattern of like, I'm just going to turn that part off.

[724] You know, I used to, as every girl did when we went into like a party, like you're picking, like, who's the one I'm going to like at this party?

[725] I did that so many times.

[726] And then, you know, that gets so exhausting when nothing.

[727] comes to fruition and things are coming to fruition for everyone else that you turn things off.

[728] But again, you were at one point, you admit, picking guys strategically out of your league, so there'd be no expectation that it could happen.

[729] Subconsciously.

[730] Yes, yes, yes.

[731] I've grown into that conclusion.

[732] Yeah, and so I think when you do that, you do shut off your radar for the guys that would like you.

[733] And you don't try to find your way in.

[734] to people.

[735] But this is where Jess is right.

[736] I do feel like...

[737] You deserve the best.

[738] I do.

[739] I think that's a great thing...

[740] That there shouldn't be an out -of -my league.

[741] I don't think there is.

[742] But I do then feel like there is.

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[782] Let's double back to another really great and honest conversation Monica and I had years ago where I was asking her about her history and she was saying that she had liked this person a lot for a long, long time and then ultimately she ended up going to his apartment and they kissed and stuff and then immediately it was over, her attraction to him.

[783] And I said, do you suffer from what I suffer from, which is I like this person, I like this person, I like them.

[784] Oh, wow, wait, they like me. they must not be as good as I thought they were or they wouldn't like me. Yeah, that's the main through line of...

[785] You think that too?

[786] Yeah, that's what...

[787] Oh, yeah.

[788] Really?

[789] That's what happened to her in this one specific?

[790] Oh, I thought you were to say that his house was dirty.

[791] Wait, what?

[792] When you were like, he got back to where it was apartment and you guys kissed, and then it was over because his house was really dirty.

[793] That's what I thought you were going to say.

[794] Jess was a bad opinion.

[795] I know, Monica's house is dirty.

[796] She didn't feel at home.

[797] She's never there.

[798] Well, again, because I don't know, I had all these years of picking people who were not really going to even pay attention to me because they were so good.

[799] They were movie stars of your school.

[800] Yeah.

[801] So if then they started to pay attention, it's like, oh, I was wrong.

[802] I picked the wrong person because I mis -evaluated their status and appeal.

[803] Correct.

[804] I find it a little bit unattractive when people are attracted to me. Wow.

[805] That's so deep.

[806] Oh, my God.

[807] If we could jump into each other's bodies for this challenge, I would kill.

[808] This one's a body swap.

[809] challenging.

[810] It would be amazing because we have literally the opposite comfort zones.

[811] Well, can I ask you, though, so we'll call him Mike.

[812] Mike was high status in all the ways and you liked him.

[813] There was a period where you were really intrigued by him.

[814] Yeah.

[815] And you thought, well, he would never like me. And then he proved that he liked you.

[816] At what point during that process were you like, I don't know if I like him as much as I thought.

[817] Because I remember, it's not like he had done anything weird.

[818] It's not you came back and you were like, we hung out all day and I found out like he's just full of himself.

[819] Or he's this, that.

[820] There was no red flag.

[821] No, there wasn't.

[822] He didn't.

[823] He was great.

[824] And fun and engaged.

[825] Well, he was more serious than you were expecting.

[826] But Mike, I don't think I ever liked him.

[827] Really?

[828] I think I picked him like I did in high school.

[829] school when I walked into the party and I was like, ooh, who's the single person who's the hottest or highest status or most whatever.

[830] Again, this is subconscious.

[831] I'm not, I think it's disgusting.

[832] No, it is.

[833] I think you should reserve any kind of judgment about how you feel about something.

[834] You could say it's not productive ultimately, but to say it's disgusting or you're bad or a shitty person because you have these feelings, I think is.

[835] Well, I think it's a habit I'd love to break because I don't think it's healthy.

[836] I don't think it's leading anywhere.

[837] Anyway, so I think I did that.

[838] And so I picked him and it was based on nothing.

[839] So then when I started to get to know him, it was like, oh, great.

[840] Like, he's good, but I'm not really super attracted to him.

[841] I want you to feel that thing that I felt maybe twice or three times, which is that butterfly's thing, excitement.

[842] and kind of in love thing that would make you want to go on a third or fourth date with whoever that person is, I guess.

[843] Me too.

[844] See, now that's interesting because I have a different opinion on that, which is that's a dangerous barrier of entry.

[845] I'll preface to say, mine, Greg, that 15 months was not realistic.

[846] It was a nine.

[847] It was a 10.

[848] It was flying across the country.

[849] It was scavenger hunts.

[850] It was five sex five times away.

[851] He was a 10.

[852] he had 4 % body fat this person that looked like this and this status liked me meant everything to me and it wasn't going to last and he was 26 years old and it wasn't going to go anywhere but that feeling took me and evolved me to something that i've never felt before regardless if it was healthy or not yeah i loved that i experienced that and it was still a pivot point in my life so even if it's not healthy or healthy i want you to experience some kind of even bad breakup where I cried for six months, like any of this stuff that people have done at 16 years old and 18 years old and 22 years old that I've barely done.

[853] I want you to experience at some point.

[854] And I was the only guess pointing out is I think we suffer from one of the same liabilities, which is you're so pragmatic, you're so goal oriented that you're evaluating on a first date whether you could marry someone or not.

[855] Spend a lot of time with the person.

[856] Even that.

[857] And I would just say in the AA way, that's like trying to get sober for 20 years.

[858] It's like you can just get sober today and then tomorrow you can be sober.

[859] And so you can just be on this date.

[860] And you really don't have to evaluate anything.

[861] And you can, you're allowed at any time to be on that fourth date, that fifth date, that sixth date and go, oh, I'm not having fun anymore.

[862] Right.

[863] And I'll end it now.

[864] Yeah.

[865] Like allowing yourself to not have things.

[866] off at the past because you're pretty sure they're going a certain way.

[867] I just think I have suffered from that in the past.

[868] And I've probably missed knowing really good people.

[869] And in my own experience, meeting Kerry was a thunderbolt lightning experience.

[870] Meeting Bree was a thunderbolt lightning experience.

[871] Meeting Kristen was not a thunderbolt lightning experience.

[872] And it wasn't until a bit later yesterday and this morning was it finally got that bolt of lightning but then somehow that's the most sustainable of those three yeah what did it did the thunderbolt come or did you just realize like oh i'm in love with her i thought this person is so fun to talk to yeah she does voices she's funny yeah she can banter this is really fun yeah and it can just be that And then I do remember like, you know, a year in going, my God, I feel the way I felt about those other two.

[873] And weirdly, I feel like this is the earned version.

[874] Like, I now have decided I love everything about her.

[875] And I maybe didn't at first.

[876] As opposed to, I love everything about this.

[877] And then slowly you're like, oh, I guess I don't love this and I don't love that.

[878] I feel like, if I had to do it a fourth time.

[879] I think I would prefer the Kristen approach where it's like just chill, just enjoy the thing that you like.

[880] You have no idea what level of attraction you might have eventually because you have this bond.

[881] I think we all can admit attraction's all mental.

[882] There's nothing objective about it.

[883] And so there's no saying what you would think is attractive.

[884] You can't say that something's attractive or unattractive right out of the gates.

[885] I don't think you could have gotten that thing if you didn't have those other five girls or those other things that have led up to that that high school crush versus the Thunderbolt versus when you were single and having the wild time of your life and you're famous dating girls and then leading to Kristen that was for calling it dating uh well Jess is calling his own stuff I guess he has to call yours dating I yes that's your story is so beautiful but those 20 girls before that were the stepping stone in a great way for you to maneuver your body and what you need and we don't have that experience yet and we and my spaghetti on the wall thing is probably not healthy but I'm hoping that I something clicks I think you guys are taking opposite approaches 100 % which is why this will be interesting total opposite approaches yes and neither getting the results you maybe want correct yeah yeah exactly yeah and I'm wary to think that having a relationship is the Holy Grail.

[886] I am wary to say that we're not whole and complete as people because we are the only single people in our group.

[887] I battle that.

[888] Can I say why that doesn't even apply to either of you?

[889] It's not like either of you are sitting at home in your bedrooms going, I got to meet somebody because my life's incomplete.

[890] You guys have super full, busy.

[891] It's not even like you're maybe even daily or weekly even aware of the fact that you're single.

[892] I'm on the apps too much.

[893] Right.

[894] I would, that is definitely something I would work on.

[895] You don't have time to be on the apps.

[896] But yours is almost, it's own, that's its own thing, which we'll definitely talk about.

[897] It is.

[898] Yeah, it's taking, it's kind of all consuming for you.

[899] Yeah, talking to four or five different guys, which one's going to be a date and going on second and third dates and one guy's unavailable because he just came out a year ago.

[900] It is like I'm dating a couple people at the same time.

[901] I have been in the exact headspace back when I was single and had my space.

[902] And I, so I know what you're talking about.

[903] And it is nearly all consuming.

[904] For me, it was impossible to check my messages at the end of the night to see who responded.

[905] Fuck that.

[906] I'm checking all day long to see if someone sent me a picture or, I mean, it's just on.

[907] For me, when it's on, I'm triggered when you compare yourself to me a lot.

[908] I know you are.

[909] Why?

[910] Because I'm I'm his example of an addict.

[911] I'm the thing that makes him feel safe that he's not an addict in any way.

[912] That's half of what got me sober is I was running out of people that were worse than me. Right.

[913] I was like, oh, I'm the person everyone's comparing themselves.

[914] I don't know.

[915] That was it.

[916] I just, I feel you bond with me in a way that we bonded with 20 years ago over drugs and sex and we're not those people anymore and I still have some of that.

[917] But what would be, can I ask you, because you defend this a lot and you protect this a lot.

[918] I'm just asking you, what if you were addicted to those apps and sex?

[919] What does that say about you?

[920] What do you think that says about you to say, yeah, I'm addicted to those things?

[921] I would have to admit that my life was unmanageable and that I would have to seek help, and I don't feel that.

[922] Do you think that makes you something different?

[923] Like, you don't want to be an addict, but I'm an addict.

[924] What's so bad about me?

[925] I like indulgent.

[926] That's the word I like to use.

[927] but he's asking what are you allergic to it yeah like worst case scenario i'm saying to you that i think you might be something i am i'm not ashamed of this so i'm just curious what what are the stakes that you were an addict or not i don't know we'll find out what our arguments have been in the past and what i get a little heated about it's when you tell me to put ugly pictures of myself on on tinder instead of really hot curated ones or that's not what he's said that's not what i said You said put a regular picture without that.

[928] You said ugly.

[929] No one puts regular pictures.

[930] You said ugly.

[931] Okay.

[932] It tells me you hear ugly.

[933] And he said a real picture, not an ugly picture.

[934] And I'm going to say that at some point during this too.

[935] I'm not honest pictures.

[936] You're saying instead of a super hot picture, yes, a hot picture, you're hot.

[937] Any of your real pictures are going to be that.

[938] No one's saying that's mutually exclusive.

[939] but when you put a picture up from 15 years ago.

[940] It's not 50.

[941] Okay, well.

[942] I did have us, three months ago, I left the guy's house and it was really hot.

[943] We had sex.

[944] Two weeks later, I go, do you want to hang out again?

[945] He's like, I mean, I might hook up like a threesome.

[946] I don't think I want to do one -on -one.

[947] If you get a hot guy, I'll join you guys.

[948] You need to update your pictures.

[949] Uh -oh.

[950] It was like, it was the worst and best thing.

[951] and it just went through my veins because I've been on plenty of dates lately in real dates where the guy was like and not really match you're a little aggressive for me and I was like cool I love that about myself I think I'm aggressive and I'm a lot and I ordered 18 appetizers and I eat really fast and I'm just that's me and I didn't bat an eye I'm like cool good luck with everything but when he said update your pictures yeah it triggered your dark it was just awful and great and I smiled I go yeah I probably should do that And then I blocked them.

[952] It's a lot.

[953] All of this is so layered on layered.

[954] So sometimes my trigger with you, Dax, is that it's a blanket statement.

[955] It's just, you should do this.

[956] And I go, oh, there's so much more underneath it.

[957] Like you said, where the river starts instead of where it ends, you know, and why we're doing this.

[958] And that's why this is so exciting and nerve -wracking for me. And I think it's going to be really cool.

[959] But again, as your friend, if I saw that you were trying to regularly compete in the gay Olympics as a sprinter, I would say to you, I don't understand why you're trying to compete with sprinters when you're a phenomenal basketball player that's won three gold medals in the Olympics.

[960] Which you have, by the way.

[961] Jess has won gay gold medals.

[962] I have one.

[963] Not gay gold medals in the gay Olympics.

[964] There's nothing gay about those medals.

[965] The medals are pretty gay.

[966] They're pretty straight.

[967] I'm saying that there are a thousand guys in L .A. Maybe 100 ,000 guys in L .A. that have better bodies than you.

[968] Why on earth is that what you're going to fucking compete on?

[969] It's so stupid.

[970] That's why I lure people to these dates.

[971] And I do do well on these dates because that's my thing.

[972] But to get them on the dates, you need these pictures.

[973] No, they feel lied to.

[974] No, no, no. To get those guys, you do need to have those pictures.

[975] My first of all guys, my pictures aren't that bad and their current ones.

[976] I'm so embarrassed.

[977] Plenty of guys I'm going on multiple dates with and plenty of guys I'm having sex with multiple times with those pictures being fine.

[978] But just you're, you're starting the date.

[979] You're missing the point.

[980] I know.

[981] I know.

[982] I'm starting the date in the life.

[983] You're selling one thing and you get a buyer that's in the market for that thing.

[984] And that's fine.

[985] You're right.

[986] Those guys do want to fuck the version of you that's got the lowest body percentage fat.

[987] There's no argument there.

[988] I totally agree with you.

[989] But I would suggest that the person you're going to end up growing old with on a fucking swinging chair, that's not what they're going to be in the market for.

[990] They're going to be me meeting Kristen and saying that personality, I must be with that personality, on a fucking rocking chair.

[991] And so I'm not expecting any more of one of these guys than what I did.

[992] I think it's the least interesting thing about you.

[993] well about anyone to be honest well no some people have shitty personalities and they're they're not bright or funny or fun to be around and maybe their body is the best thing about them oh yeah and those people should live in the gym and then they should sell that product yeah but your your thing you can you by the way you can be in great shape i'm not telling you not to be in great shape or that not to be an aspect of you but i definitely just think it'll always be the last most interesting thing about you in the least among many reasons that someone would want to spend their life with you but as you said we're trapped in we want the thing we don't think we are and in theory i love those things you're saying and i hundred percent would in a perfect world want that you also in all fairness it's just an experiment you've never tried what vacation were we on when you said i'm at heaviest point was it um fall brook if you took your worst picture from fallbrook it's next to Monica where my stupid...

[994] I love that picture.

[995] I know, my huge stomach coming out and in a comment said, suck it in, Jess, was one of my conti friends said.

[996] Mm -hmm, who also felt very insecure about their appearance.

[997] Uh -huh, yeah.

[998] And so what I'm saying is what we know for sure, I could be dead wrong, you could be dead right.

[999] That'd be great.

[1000] You've never tried that experiment.

[1001] You never led with the worst physical version of yourself, Fallbrook.

[1002] And then seeing...

[1003] We're going to call it Fallbrook.

[1004] fallbrook physique and seeing who wants to go out to dinner with you and then when you get to that dinner they're like oh my god this guy's so much thinner in real life that's cool he's over delivering already and you're like well fuck i got a lot of latitude now because he he went on a date with the fallbrook i'm free to be me we just haven't had that experiment you've never gone on the dates with guys who wanted to go on a date with you after seeing fallbrook we just don't know so it's all theoretical and it's all narrative sounds like a challenge I was just about to say.

[1005] Well, yeah, okay, so as I said, we're going to give each other challenges.

[1006] Jess and I at the end of each episode, and then at the beginning of each episode, we will reconvene about those challenges and how they went and all of that.

[1007] And at the end of this episode, we'll start with Dax giving us a challenge.

[1008] Now, I mean, I'm inclined right off the cuff to say, because I think you guys have such opposite approaches.

[1009] Switch bodies.

[1010] well basically like i'd like to see monica go on two dates in the next week two oh my fucking god that's extreme and i'd like you to only go on one date and i would like i have like four set up i would like for you i have four set up i do i would like for you just to make a list of what you want the guy to be and it can't include anything physical okay so i am in i have about five or six guys in rotation right now so this should be a a new person?

[1011] Yeah, you got to go out with a new person.

[1012] Do I sound like a monster?

[1013] No. Oh, man. Well, look, Dan Savage talked about it.

[1014] It's not a secret that gay guys can have sex a lot more than straight guys.

[1015] And Dan Savage's takeaway, which we loved, was make the world safer for women and they'll want to have sex as much.

[1016] Because they want to.

[1017] They're just afraid of slut shaming and the danger to them.

[1018] So what we get to see with guys is where both parties feel very safe.

[1019] and horny as hell.

[1020] And so you can fuck more.

[1021] And then there's there's apps.

[1022] And even I think, I do think this is relevant before we get into how your dates go.

[1023] I think people need a precursor.

[1024] Something Monica and I were absolutely fascinated by and loved is that some of the cultural norms in grinder dating is someone may come over and they may step into your house.

[1025] So this is my truth.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] The lead up is great.

[1028] There's a lot of sexting.

[1029] We're in a 40 minute span So how long is it going to take you to get there Sometimes I'll GPS how far they are away They're driving over I'm getting ready You're douching I'm douching I'm making sure my Oh my God The pHs is right I'm making sure that everything's set up I'm definitely cleaning up my room a bit I throw a lot of the stuff in the closet Then I'm downstairs Then I'm downstairs pacing Checking my breath Then I'm texting a little bit They're pulling up I just I get a lot of just parked Then my pussy quivers a little bit bit for the just, yeah, PQ.

[1030] Yeah, PQ for the just parked.

[1031] Uh -huh.

[1032] I meet them halfway through my courtyard.

[1033] So I want to see a good lighting.

[1034] I want to see a walk.

[1035] I want to see if he's bringing a lot of somebody, why are you bringing a backpack?

[1036] Like, so I get right up.

[1037] Do you look what car they're driving?

[1038] No, no. Okay.

[1039] Because I drive them.

[1040] That's what I would do.

[1041] Yeah, no, no, no. So they're walking up.

[1042] That's telling their size me up.

[1043] I'm sizing them up.

[1044] They get into the foyer.

[1045] Still sizing up.

[1046] Hey, how are you doing good, man?

[1047] How was the drive?

[1048] Not too far awesome do you want a water now I've bottled water now sometimes they want a water a lot of times they're like no I just had one I had one in the car or they're holding one then we just start making out right then there's grabbing there's touching I'm going down because I get dickpicks often oh I just pictured my parents I'm feeling for quality of life I'm feeling to see if this is all going to up.

[1049] I feel like...

[1050] Paul's advertising.

[1051] Yeah, all that.

[1052] Making out, making out, little grab.

[1053] I'm like, I'm down.

[1054] He's like, yeah, you want to go upstairs.

[1055] And then other times, other times, I'm not feeling it.

[1056] And he goes, I get it, man. And they quickly put their clothes back on.

[1057] They grab their shirt.

[1058] Nice meeting you.

[1059] Very jovial, nice, very like, this has happened a million times.

[1060] We're used to this.

[1061] And that has happened to me. Right.

[1062] On the flip side.

[1063] Again, and just not to put too fine a point on it, but it's generally like if you say I don't think it's a match, it's pretty immediately after you've seen their penis, right?

[1064] You don't want to say yes, but yes.

[1065] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1066] And so what I find amazing and so different from my experience hooking up with women is if I were to ever look at a woman's vagina and then immediately stand up and go, we're not a match.

[1067] I have to assume that woman would start crying.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] And it would be a very emotional ride for the next few hours with us.

[1070] You'd be a horrible person.

[1071] I'd be a horrible person.

[1072] And just that right there tells me this is fascinating as an anthropologist.

[1073] These are completely different courting cultures.

[1074] Again, we're not saying all gay guys do this.

[1075] But in the culture you're emerged in is dramatically different than the one I was.

[1076] And I find that fascinating.

[1077] I love it.

[1078] If zero judgment of it, it's just completely different.

[1079] and I think it's very interesting that guys are like, yeah, cool, I get it.

[1080] What I do like about it is that for me, I don't think about it afterwards.

[1081] If these people were leaving and I was like, I shouldn't have done that.

[1082] I feel bad about myself.

[1083] Was I mean to him?

[1084] I have none of that.

[1085] Either that makes me a sociopath or it's just transactional.

[1086] No, I really do think it is transactional.

[1087] And I've never, ever had a really bad experience as far as, you know, violence or scary or robberies, which is what most people would think about.

[1088] You have so many people coming to your house, your actual house, that's a liability.

[1089] Or what I think that the truth is in, you know what the response is.

[1090] So if they just go like, no problem, dude, that's great.

[1091] No one can fake that that well.

[1092] I think that's the true.

[1093] Well, no. Yeah, it's the culture that's been set up.

[1094] You guys both know what you're entering.

[1095] You both know that there's a chance that this isn't going to continue past the water, you know.

[1096] But no girl is ever entering a scenario where they think that might happen.

[1097] And so then that's horrible to do to somebody if they don't know what they're getting themselves into.

[1098] But I do know that Tinder for women has been used as more of a sex site for straight guys.

[1099] Hookup, yeah.

[1100] And that girls are doing these hookups, granted, if they might want a cocktail before, but they are, they know what they're in for.

[1101] But they're not expecting to get rejected based on their body part, regardless of the hookup.

[1102] Well, as much as we do agree male and females are way more similar than different, and that's been exaggerated how different they are.

[1103] I do just think also this is, whether that's societal and how we raise boys, but that's a male -female difference, I think.

[1104] I don't think lesbians, it's not a gay thing.

[1105] It's not like if lesbians meet in the foyer and one of them looks at each other's vagina and says we're not a match, I think that's still going to be a big issue.

[1106] Yes.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] Pretty heartbreaking issue.

[1111] I had a guy like Kaiser Soze Sixth Sense.

[1112] I saw that all his pictures, all his pictures had sunglasses on.

[1113] and he got to my house at night with sunglasses on and then he went up we already got up to my room and the sunglasses were on and I'm like oh no glass eye it was blind blind no he would have had a stick it was uh you can't drive over it can't I mean it's horrible but yeah like a disfigured ogre eye okay an asymmetrical eye yeah okay now how did the glasses come I asked him.

[1114] You asked him.

[1115] And he was slow to...

[1116] And he showed you.

[1117] And then did you say, oh, cool, put him back on?

[1118] No, I got a condom on.

[1119] No, I got further.

[1120] And then I couldn't...

[1121] And I've just like, I've gotten pretty far and stopped.

[1122] You have stopped.

[1123] When I stop, sometimes I go way too further than I ever should have when I knew it was no. Yeah.

[1124] I'm like, maybe my instincts will kick in.

[1125] Right, your training.

[1126] I'm like, your training will take over.

[1127] I feel bad because I'm like, oh, Jess, you should have just done it.

[1128] but I would never say that to a straight girl.

[1129] Oh, my God, I'd be like, if you didn't want to, or even a guy probably, I'd be like, don't do that.

[1130] You're better than that.

[1131] You've never said you're better than that, Jess.

[1132] Or just you didn't want to, so don't.

[1133] I did it.

[1134] I did it.

[1135] I, like, had this correspondence with a gal over the internet, and she had sent me a lot of pictures, and I was attracted to what I saw, and then she came over to a hotel room I was at and I opened the door and I was like okay oh boy for real the pictures are at least 15 years old but then still her it was her so it's not a catfish but it well fuck man you know maybe I didn't even really consider that those weren't even her at all ever but it was much much different upon arrival than it looked in the catalog and I was like tough shit buddy you got yourself into this position and you're going to have sex with this woman because that's what you've promised her and I did it and I was like god this is what a lot of women feel like sometimes like I'm just going through this and I faked like I came and then that was that and it was dark you want to talk about a hangover I was like this is dark what do you think about that story I think I for some reason I'm sorry I have no sympathy for you And I do have sympathy for Jess in these situations.

[1136] And I think the difference is, I think there's this idea, and maybe it's not true.

[1137] It's probably not true, but there's this idea that, like, this is the only way gay guys can, like, meet each other is through this.

[1138] So it feels like, well, I guess he has to do that where I don't feel like that with you.

[1139] I feel like, okay, you were horny and you wanted to have sex, and you got to.

[1140] So good for you.

[1141] She didn't look like she presented herself, but...

[1142] You still came.

[1143] Still pretended to.

[1144] I still pretended to.

[1145] Oh, you pretend.

[1146] But, you know, like, for some reason...

[1147] Of course.

[1148] I don't think at any point do I think I deserve sympathy over that whole thing.

[1149] I'm just saying I found myself in a position I think people find themselves in, and I, it wasn't within me to go, oh, I don't think I'd like to anymore.

[1150] Right, right, right.

[1151] I'd rather do this thing.

[1152] I did not want to do it.

[1153] Yeah, that is all.

[1154] so interesting because like I would call that traumatic for a girl absolutely and I don't think it's traumatic for you and I don't think it's traumatic for you it was it was traumatic enough for me that I was the next day like you know of course you got in that situation that's the wreckage of your behavior like this is how I know the behavior is questionable because I have wreckage like I got myself in a situation that you know wouldn't have otherwise happen if I wasn't acting kind of addicty.

[1155] Right.

[1156] If I'm just only going back to my hotel with people, I've had a three -hour conversation with at a bar, I'm not shocked when we get into the room all of a sudden.

[1157] Right.

[1158] Hmm.

[1159] Hmm.

[1160] Okay, so our challenge is for me to go on.

[1161] Two dates for you.

[1162] Two dates in one week?

[1163] That is a lot.

[1164] The reason I felt safe saying, too, is I feel like I've already fielded like five people who are trying to set you up with certain people.

[1165] Like, there's kind of a stable of people that people are trying to set you up with, Isn't there?

[1166] No. Well, you went on one date so you can go on that second date.

[1167] Am I allowed to go on a second day?

[1168] Yeah, you could go on a second date.

[1169] Can she have to initiate this?

[1170] Because she has a week.

[1171] That would be really interesting if you set the date up.

[1172] I'll have to set the date up.

[1173] I have no choice.

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] I love it.

[1176] That's exciting.

[1177] Lobby Bob's laughing.

[1178] I wonder what about.

[1179] There's so many topics on the table he could be laughing about.

[1180] All right.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] So you have to go on.

[1183] two dates in seven days.

[1184] This seems impossible extreme.

[1185] Well, because you've been on how many in your whole life?

[1186] Maybe two.

[1187] How many dates have you been on your whole life?

[1188] Like five probably.

[1189] That's what I thought five.

[1190] Like so few.

[1191] That's amazing.

[1192] I'm obsessed.

[1193] I love it.

[1194] So wait, so Jess can only go on one, but is he still allowed to talk to all these other people?

[1195] No, I think he should take a week off.

[1196] And I think in the days leading up to you setting this date.

[1197] you should make a list of what you want in somebody and they can't have anything physical.

[1198] So you got to tell all these people you have in rotation that you're going to be MIA for a week.

[1199] It's easy.

[1200] I have chlamydia.

[1201] I'm taking pills for seven days.

[1202] Cool, cool, cool.

[1203] So I'll just be like, I get it.

[1204] Straight, cool.

[1205] Yeah, straight, been there, been there.

[1206] Also there.

[1207] I'm doing it too.

[1208] Fuck it.

[1209] Let's do it.

[1210] I got it from you.

[1211] Yeah, he can just kick it down the road.

[1212] He can go like, oh, I got, fuck, you have a sick father.

[1213] You could just say, I got to go spend time with my dad.

[1214] And you could kick it all down the road just one week.

[1215] That's all.

[1216] You go, hey, we're supposed to get together Tuesday.

[1217] Can we get together next Tuesday?

[1218] I don't know who's this harder.

[1219] Because I'm petrified of yours in your narrative and your lens.

[1220] I think mine might be impossible.

[1221] I think that about mine.

[1222] I know.

[1223] It's crazy.

[1224] And really, it's nothing physical.

[1225] So your list is going to be good sensing humor, productive.

[1226] Whatever your list is.

[1227] I don't know what your list is.

[1228] Mine is funnies number one or smart.

[1229] Funny, smart.

[1230] Silly?

[1231] Sure, silly could be one.

[1232] Do you want to tell the time that we made out?

[1233] Or did you tell that already?

[1234] I think I've said it on here before.

[1235] But sure, but yeah.

[1236] I mean, in a nutshell, when Jess and I were first meeting at the groundlings, he was saying what a good basketball player he was.

[1237] And I said, well, I'm definitely a better one -on -one basketball player than you.

[1238] And you go, there's not a chance.

[1239] I would destroy you.

[1240] And I'm like, I would definitely beat you at one -on -one.

[1241] And you said, all right, well, let's make a wager.

[1242] We'll play one -on -one.

[1243] to 11 and if you win I'll give you $100 and I was broke Yeah you were very broke And if I were praying on a poor poor girl I knew exactly where to zero in And then if I win You have to make out with me with tongue Uh huh For some time period Like a minute or two minutes It was nine seconds or ten seconds This is a long time Okay And we were in backstage at the ground link So there's plenty of people that saw this A lot of witnesses And you said fuck yeah And you shook my hand and almost heard it.

[1244] Okay.

[1245] And as I walked away, it was a reveal smile like the Joker, like he doesn't even know what he's in for.

[1246] Yeah, and I didn't.

[1247] I sure didn't.

[1248] So we get to the outdoor court.

[1249] You destroyed me. Oh, wow.

[1250] I want to say it was like 11 to 2 or 3.

[1251] Then you said, you got mad.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] Best out of three.

[1254] And then you're best out of three.

[1255] So we play the second game, 11 to 5.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] I don't even think it was that high, but thank you.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] And then another 11 to 2.

[1260] So three games.

[1261] to 11.

[1262] And then we made out.

[1263] There was someone else there.

[1264] Caitlin was there.

[1265] Yeah, Caitlin was there.

[1266] So it was safe for him.

[1267] Right.

[1268] We were on the beach.

[1269] Yep.

[1270] It would have felt different for me, I think, if we were in your bedroom together.

[1271] Oh, yeah.

[1272] I might have got, like, kind of triggered to my trauma.

[1273] Well, it's the same reason why.

[1274] Do you want to tell people about when we basically made out, when you swallowed my luggy?

[1275] Oh, yeah.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] Well, I think we talked about that on the other show.

[1278] Yes, we were driving to the podcast.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] And it was in the morning.

[1281] And I needed a sip of something.

[1282] I saw you at a Perrier in your cup holder.

[1283] Oh, no. So I went and I just started chugging it and you panicked.

[1284] You're like, don't drink that.

[1285] And my first thought was, oh, there's alcohol in it.

[1286] She's protecting me from relapsing.

[1287] Oh, wow.

[1288] Monica drinks, you know, in the morning.

[1289] In Perrier.

[1290] We argued about this this weekend for quite a while.

[1291] Yes, we did.

[1292] I had zero judgment of that.

[1293] I was like, okay, I mean, she's on time every day.

[1294] She's sharp as hell.

[1295] There's no wreckage or fucking unmanageability about this.

[1296] We were arguing because he said I'd be like, okay, that's okay.

[1297] She clearly has her shit together.

[1298] And I was like, no, no, no. If you taste alcohol that I poured into a small tiny perier that I'm drinking in the morning in secret, I want you to be concerned about that.

[1299] Got it.

[1300] Well, look, I think 99.

[1301] times out of 100, that is definitely a red flag that the person has a big problem.

[1302] But now I have spent nearly every day with you over the last six years.

[1303] And I can see you don't have any wreckage or unmanageability in your life.

[1304] So I would have to say, this is interesting.

[1305] This is like Seth Rogen who smokes weed all day, but is productive and a great husband?

[1306] Who am I to say that that is inherently wrong?

[1307] If there are downstream problems as a result of your your Perrier with vodka and it, then I'm going to be very concerned about you and want to talk to you about it.

[1308] Anyways, as you know, Jess, it's because she had lugied in that Perrier several times, and I just drank her spit.

[1309] That's amazing.

[1310] And that's why she panicked.

[1311] I have no idea.

[1312] And also, it goes to say what I guess my fantasy of you is is because you lugging in that can the way I do, like a fucking hillbilly, was completely off the table.

[1313] You drinking was far more on the table.

[1314] You driving around like, I was sick.

[1315] I know you were sick, but I just, that was, that was outside of the realm of possibility.

[1316] I know.

[1317] And of course it makes me like you more, because I wish you cleared your throat like an ox like I do all the time and had phlegm issues.

[1318] Well, I do in the morning.

[1319] Oh, I'd like to hear you clear out that carbon sometimes.

[1320] It's mainly in the shower.

[1321] You just love gross things.

[1322] We love gross things.

[1323] You guys loved my dood.

[1324] Oh, my.

[1325] We're going to talk about your doodad.

[1326] here.

[1327] That's a cliffhanger for the rest of it.

[1328] Yes, I agree.

[1329] That deserves three episodes.

[1330] Arc. Because it was a three month long ordeal.

[1331] You guys say so many nice things about all of your friends.

[1332] And from one of the outsiders that listen to it all the time, all of us friends want to say how much we love you and that we think the same things about you.

[1333] And we love smiling and hearing you guys talk about all of this because we feel like we're in the living room and I love us I just wanted to say that I do me too well Monica loves boys Jeff's loves boys and I love both of them so stay tuned for the exciting results of this challenge it's so funny because I think for most people listening it's preposterous that either sounds hard amelie's for me it's like yeah you're gonna go out with someone on Tuesday and then Saturday that's not a big deal and you really just one day to week that's going to be a challenge honestly I would have to cancel tonight like after this happy hour I was having a guy I can't have sex either right no no no no no I don't get it no you should take the time you are going to be fucking to make your list of things of what you want and a partner got it all right I love you guys I love you