S2 E6: It was Horrific

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

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[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some.

[11] Please use discretion when listening.

[12] So what I did was I contacted the California Nursing Board.

[13] I told them a lot had happened, and they said, thank you, can you type something up?

[14] So I did.

[15] Can you mail it to me?

[16] And I did.

[17] And I mean, basically told them what had happened.

[18] And the police officer called me and he said, hey, California Nursing Board contacted me. It did trigger an investigation.

[19] I would like to come and talk to you.

[20] And I said, sure, you know, anytime.

[21] So I made an appointment.

[22] He came.

[23] He was a very, very kind man who was a detective.

[24] He came here.

[25] He sat and he talked to me for probably two hours at the kitchen table.

[26] I had the, I had taken the syringes that she was injecting herself with.

[27] I had taken them when she was super sick right before she was found out.

[28] I took the syringes.

[29] I don't know what made me do that, but I did it.

[30] And he wanted those.

[31] He wanted to test them and see what they were.

[32] So I gave them those.

[33] And he said, you know, I want to tell you something.

[34] He said, you remind me. a lot of my wife, you're a very kind and compassionate person, and I can see how this happened to you.

[35] And I just want to tell you that don't let this devastate you and move on and just let it go if you can.

[36] And he said, but I understand.

[37] And we will do something.

[38] And I don't know if her license was revoked.

[39] I believe that it was.

[40] I do believe that it was.

[41] Do I have proof?

[42] No, I don't.

[43] Do I know for certain?

[44] No, but I believe I have to try to believe in this.

[45] system that that worked.

[46] And my whole thought process was she shouldn't be working on anyone else's children.

[47] She shouldn't be near medical equipment of any kind.

[48] She shouldn't be in any sort of medical environment of any kind.

[49] Correct.

[50] So yeah, so when this originally happened, her ex -husband took his son and the grandmother and her son went and took the daughter.

[51] So they were separated now?

[52] They were separated.

[53] However, really strangely, that ex -husband released the child back to her really soon.

[54] The boy?

[55] Yes, really soon after.

[56] Like, within a month, the child was back at home.

[57] They went to court to fight over the daughter, but in the end, she had both of her children back.

[58] Oh, yeah.

[59] Five months after Sylvia was discovered, she sent an email to the doctor who owns at the veterinary clinic that she worked at with tea and Jen.

[60] Doc, I'm not sure what I want to say exactly, but I guess I've just had you on my mind so much that I wanted to tell you how very much I miss you.

[61] I know now my life had to be turned upside down and shaken to bring me to a place where I can find happiness.

[62] But I hurt all the people I held close to my heart, and I wish I could change that.

[63] I know I've lost you forever, and that still stings as bad today as it did five months ago.

[64] I think about laughing with you, playing with you, talking with you, just being around you, and just get a huge lump in my throat.

[65] I know that losing you is one of the seemingly unbearable consequences I have had to face for my actions, but I have a hard time figuring out why it still hurts so terribly.

[66] Losing you and losing my children are things that I struggle with on a daily basis.

[67] I try to use those aches and pangs as fuel to keep on finding the answers I need.

[68] in order to be a whole healthy person.

[69] Work is going well.

[70] I'm working in the pick you and doing what I love.

[71] I've started going back to school and I got into the nursing program at UC Davis.

[72] Going to lots and lots of court to try and fight to get my daughter back.

[73] And on a smorgasbord of medications with plenty of sides of gut reveling therapy have been a big part of my life's menu.

[74] Smiley face.

[75] And overall, I feel better about who I am and how I live my life today than I have in my whole life.

[76] I just have a hard time not hating myself for what I did to those who I've loved.

[77] My dog Ruby is having our last litter in mid -February.

[78] I'm pretty excited about that.

[79] It won't be the same without you, but it will bring lots of smiles, I'm sure.

[80] I guess I wanted to tell you, you were and always will be one of my greatest loves, that there will always be a big part of me that will miss you and love you.

[81] I want you to know that.

[82] And saying sorry just doesn't seem to even touch the feelings of regret and sorrow I have for what I put you through.

[83] But maybe it still means something to you.

[84] Nonetheless, always thinking of you.

[85] Sylvia.

[86] I guess I wanted to tell you were and always will be one of my greatest loves.

[87] Yeah.

[88] That's fucking bizarre.

[89] And it's fucked up.

[90] And also, did something happen?

[91] No, nothing.

[92] Never.

[93] Never.

[94] But in her head, clearly, but I'm telling you, I absolutely 100 million percent, no, nothing happened.

[95] Like, I know.

[96] Like, this man is my brother.

[97] I know nothing happened.

[98] And I confronted him because she told me, you know, something did.

[99] And he actually laughed in my face.

[100] It was, he was like, what?

[101] And then there was just like, instantly, I was like, yeah, because she is lying sociopath.

[102] And he's like, yeah, no. No. Nah.

[103] No. But she had actually told me at one time that he came, to her and said that he liked her and that they kissed and stuff.

[104] She just always kind of made it seem like they had a special relationship.

[105] I didn't question her about it, but my first thought was there's no way that that happened.

[106] I mean, like I said, I never like questioned her or told her that she was probably lying.

[107] But my thought was always that, you know, I don't believe that this situation happened between them.

[108] Always thinking of you again.

[109] This is bizarre.

[110] Right.

[111] And then again, like she does this for him and then nothing to respond to me. Nothing.

[112] Nothing.

[113] Did he seem creeped out?

[114] Yeah.

[115] He was very creeped.

[116] Like this person is clearly not well.

[117] Right.

[118] And the response he said was something to the effect of what the things that the lies and the deception and the things that you did have made it impossible for us to have any relationship whatsoever.

[119] I am afraid that we can no longer be friends.

[120] Basically, don't contact me. Correct.

[121] So she did try to allude to you before that she had some sort of relationship with him?

[122] Yeah.

[123] And did she seem, she made it sound like that was ongoing?

[124] She didn't see it's a relationship.

[125] What she told me was this.

[126] She said, I, I wanted to kiss him and he said, oh no. I'm married.

[127] I can't do that.

[128] And she said, but I really, you know, I care for you.

[129] And he said, no. And that's what she told me was that he said no. And that he said, no, absolutely not.

[130] And when I confronted him and I said, hey, did this happen?

[131] He, no. So that didn't even happen.

[132] No. So she, she was pretty open with you like I had feelings for him.

[133] Oh, yeah.

[134] So that was something that you knew.

[135] Yep.

[136] On top of her being married.

[137] Or was this at different times?

[138] Like when she was single or something.

[139] This is when she was living with Jason.

[140] Now, what I want you to know is what I found out after all this, she was never married the first time.

[141] She lived with that gentleman and had a baby with him, but they were never married.

[142] For son's father?

[143] Yeah, she told all of us.

[144] Divorced.

[145] Her husband, I got to get a divorce, who went through the whole divorce thing.

[146] They were never married.

[147] Yeah.

[148] That never happened.

[149] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[150] I'm Sachi Cole.

[151] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[152] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

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[156] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[157] You can listen to scam influencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[158] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[159] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[160] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[161] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[162] What happens next?

[163] Depends on who you ask.

[164] Was it a crime of passion?

[165] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[166] This was clearly an intentional act.

[167] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[168] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[169] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[170] Everyone had an opinion.

[171] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[172] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[173] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[174] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[175] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[176] I did talk to the daughter after she was found out.

[177] The grandmother had her, and I asked if I could come spend time with her.

[178] And she said yes, and we went for our walk.

[179] How much longer?

[180] Do you remember, like, I don't.

[181] She was still really little, yeah.

[182] I mean, yeah, so, yeah, around that time frame.

[183] That's a good estimate.

[184] And I remember, I'm like, you know, I really miss you.

[185] Like, you know, we were tight.

[186] And she's like, yeah, I miss you too.

[187] And I said, well, you know, do you know what happened?

[188] And she said, yeah, my mom thought she was sick and she wasn't.

[189] But I'm kind of mad at you.

[190] And I said, why?

[191] you know and she said because you tried to take my mom's job away and I go what do you mean and she said well my mom told me that you tried to get her fired from her nursing job and I said well honey you know she was hurting herself and you know you can't I mean she was a child but look at how this little child is maturely talking to me like this though and I was like the burden that she's putting that on her daughter even to those things so I I was like, you know, she shouldn't be, yeah, but that's not true.

[192] She was just sick.

[193] And I go, but honey, she lied to us and she made herself sick.

[194] Well, I don't believe that.

[195] And I go, honey, it's true.

[196] And then I knew right then I had lost her.

[197] It was done.

[198] Several years go by.

[199] I haven't heard from her, nothing, haven't heard from her family.

[200] And I answer the phone at work.

[201] She says, hi, hi, T, it's Sylvia.

[202] My heart just, like, pumping out of my chest, right?

[203] And she's like, so she goes, how are you?

[204] I'm fine.

[205] And she goes, I want you know, I think of you every day.

[206] And I said, I want you to know I think of you every day too.

[207] But I'm at my own little different way.

[208] And she's like, so I know you're probably not going to believe me or anything, but I was at Yosemite and I fell and now I'm in a wheelchair.

[209] And I have to get rid of one of Ruby's puppy.

[210] because I can't care for her anymore because I'm in a wheelchair.

[211] And I was like, okay, well, I'll put the word out, you know?

[212] And she goes, okay.

[213] And she goes, I know you probably don't believe me. And I'm like, well, you know?

[214] Did you just kind of stay silent?

[215] Like in shock?

[216] Because you're not expecting to get that phone call.

[217] See her just like, really?

[218] Right.

[219] And I'm out.

[220] Like a ghost visiting you.

[221] Yeah.

[222] And it just like stirred everything up.

[223] And she's like, yeah, I'm in a wheelchair.

[224] my mom bought me a van that's wheelchair accessible and yeah because she got in an accident she at yosemite she like hiking or something she said i fell at yosemite and i'm in a wheelchair now i was working and sylvia called me at the hospital to see if i could take one of her bulldogs and called me up like nothing had ever happened like hi how's it going i was wondering if you could take one of my dogs for me and i was just Like, no, I can't.

[225] And that was pretty much the conversation.

[226] And then, like, two days later, I sat down at my work computer.

[227] I opened my email.

[228] And the grandmother sent me an email that said, I'm really sorry to inform you, but Sylvia passed away last night.

[229] The daughter found her.

[230] We don't know if it was an old.

[231] overdose intentional or on purpose, but she has passed away.

[232] I literally lost my shit.

[233] I got up.

[234] I went out to the parking lot.

[235] I was like doing the heathing, crying like where I thought was going to throw up.

[236] And I just was how much more devastation can this person bring?

[237] It was horrific.

[238] Oh man, you know, that was.

[239] was really rough sorry um I was so sad I was devastated for kids that she left them behind um and you know I never really had known anyone that had I had been close with that had passed away before um it was just it's still really sad for me. And I, you know, reached out immediately to the grandmother and I talked to her and she said, we really don't know what happened.

[240] She said that the daughter noticed she was slurring her words when she went to bed.

[241] And when she got up in the morning, she found her mom dead in the bed.

[242] And I called her mom.

[243] Her mom did answer.

[244] We cried together on the phone.

[245] We cried together on the phone.

[246] We didn't really talk very much.

[247] And then that was it.

[248] And then I reached out several more times and then asking her mom to please call me that I needed help talking about this, that I needed some closure with this and that I had a broken heart.

[249] And her mom wouldn't call me back.

[250] I know that her mom lost her child.

[251] I understand that.

[252] And I understand that her mom had to take care of herself.

[253] I was trying to take care of myself.

[254] And I kept reaching out to her.

[255] Can you please just call me?

[256] And they said, can you please quit reaching out?

[257] Someone, her, I think it was her aunt, text me and said, can you please quit reaching out to her?

[258] It's too painful.

[259] The services are going to be closed to just family only.

[260] And I was like, fuck you.

[261] You know, you weren't here.

[262] You didn't do the work.

[263] You weren't here.

[264] You weren't here.

[265] for four years.

[266] None of you were here.

[267] Fuck you guys.

[268] I was so mad.

[269] So mad.

[270] And did you ever talk to the mom again?

[271] Nope.

[272] Did you stay in contact with the grandma?

[273] Nope.

[274] No. After the...

[275] Well, actually, I did reach out via email and I...

[276] I said, I'm really struggling.

[277] I can't accept this.

[278] You know, I really am struggling for answers.

[279] Do you have any answers?

[280] Do you know what the auto?

[281] autopsy showed, like, do you have any information for me?

[282] And she was like, I have moved on, you need to move on too.

[283] I swear to God, if I had one more person tell me that I was going to die, like, I just, yeah.

[284] So all I did was get shut down by her family.

[285] And with no sense of helping me get closure, maybe it could care less about me. Did you guys do anything at work or any sort of.

[286] The neighbor girl that lived next door, we have a little service at her house.

[287] And did the neighbor girl stay in contact with her through the end?

[288] Like, they were still friends.

[289] I don't know if they were friends or close friends, but I do think that she occasionally talked to her.

[290] Mm -hmm.

[291] Am that crazy?

[292] That's really crazy.

[293] It makes me really sad that her daughter had to find her too, like on top of everything else.

[294] Yep.

[295] Because that's not something you get over.

[296] Nope Never Never And then she was Immediately separated The children were separated And went to their dads And then is that where they stayed Did you ever have contact with Jason After she passed away And did he have any insights or anything for you?

[297] Like did he?

[298] A little bit Talk to her at all?

[299] No Not at all He still used us as his veterinarian And so I did see him occasionally.

[300] And one of the last times I saw him, he said that he was having a really hard time because he needed a death certificate to get a divorce.

[301] And the mom had the death certificate.

[302] And she would not return his phone calls.

[303] Yep.

[304] That sounds about right.

[305] And he, you can tell he was just a broken person after, you know.

[306] Yeah.

[307] And he found out about her lying about the medical stuff the same day you did.

[308] Yeah.

[309] We all found out together.

[310] So he didn't have it.

[311] And he didn't suspect it either.

[312] Like in your conversations with him?

[313] Nobody knew.

[314] I'm telling you she was good.

[315] You'd have to be.

[316] Yeah.

[317] But to live with somebody.

[318] No. And not even know.

[319] No. Like I know you were there an insane amount of time, but like he lived with her.

[320] Right.

[321] He did not know.

[322] And I 100 % believe that.

[323] And remember that she went to a counselor that we paid for from the hospital.

[324] And he didn't know.

[325] He didn't know.

[326] I went and saw him after.

[327] she died he did not know yeah yeah so the neighbor girl did tell me that she went to work someplace else and was saying she was sick again so was that true i don't know because i was out of it right you know so she's saying that she got another job at a new place and was starting it all over again that's what she said you think you know me you don't know me well i think you know T and I will be recording a Q &A episode soon.

[328] If you have a question, you can send it via email, Instagram, or by calling or texting 1 -3 -2 -3 -379 -5 -6 -78.

[329] Thank you so much.

[330] Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reetz.

[331] All of the music by Gladrags.

[332] hear their album Wonder Under on iTunes.

[333] Follow the hashtag Something Was Wrong Pod on Instagram.

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[335] The books referenced on this show can be found linked in the show notes.

[336] If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 Safe.

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[341] A neighbor, in Garbage Man, and Gynaecologist, in record producer and sex boyfriend.

[342] No, don't do that.

[343] Yeah, just like everyone you know.

[344] That would be cool.

[345] Thank you.

[346] Love you.

[347] Bye.

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[350] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.

[351] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[352] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[353] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering, super.

[354] bad.

[355] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[356] She's like, I can't.

[357] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[358] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[359] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[360] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[361] Well, you were holding something back intentionally.

[362] Yeah, yeah.

[363] Well, yeah.

[364] No, it's hysteria.

[365] It's all in your head.

[366] It's not physical.

[367] Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[368] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[369] Or is it something else entirely?

[370] Something's wrong here.

[371] Something's not right.

[372] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[373] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[374] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[375] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.