JRE MMA Show #109 with Gordon Ryan

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, checking out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] Well, welcome, man. Thanks for doing this.

[4] Appreciate it.

[5] Thanks for happening.

[6] A long time coming.

[7] How the fuck did you rise so far ahead of everyone else in the jiu -suitz world?

[8] Let me just tell everybody before things get started.

[9] Gordon is undeniably the best pound -for -pound.

[10] jujitsu player on earth.

[11] Not just the best, but pretty, pretty, it's a pretty good statement to say that you're the best ever.

[12] You're only 25.

[13] Yeah.

[14] That's crazy.

[15] Yeah.

[16] How the fuck does that happen?

[17] So I'm going to go ahead and give credit to John.

[18] I mean, I think that without him, I maybe would have been successful.

[19] I would have been, you know, maybe the best in the world at some point in my career, but I don't think that without John, I would be where I am right now, and I don't think that I would have gotten this good in this amount of time.

[20] I've been training 10 years.

[21] I've been competing professionally for five years, and I think that a big part of the reason why I am where I am is because of John's coaching.

[22] Yeah, and we're talking about John Donaheher, for people who don't know who is a literal genius and a mastermind in Jiu -Jitsu and a true mad scientist.

[23] I'm watching him coach you guys is very fascinating because he's so serious and stoic and Gordon Ryan pass over the left leg.

[24] Gordon Ryan post like the way he talks.

[25] Like it's really interesting.

[26] He says your full name too.

[27] It's really, it's very interesting.

[28] Gordon Ryan, Gary Tonin, Craig Jones.

[29] It's always the full name.

[30] Yeah.

[31] Why?

[32] He's such an odd duck.

[33] He does it to address us because a lot of times like you've got like Nikki, for example.

[34] Like there's a lot of guys named Nikki.

[35] So he makes sure he makes sure that you know he's talking to you when he says, Nikki Ryan, Nicky Rod, Craig Jones, Gordon Ryan.

[36] So you know that when you hear your name being called, your first and last name, you know, that, okay, this person is addressing you in a room of, you know, five, 10 ,000 people.

[37] He's such an unusual human being.

[38] There is not a single person on the planet Earth like John Donner, her.

[39] One of the most brilliant guys I've ever met, obsessed with Jiu -Jitsu, mostly.

[40] Like, that's, if you've got a pie chart of his brain, it would be like, it's like 20 % room for other shit, 80 % of his, brain is jujitsu.

[41] Yeah, I mean, it's not even just jiu -jitsu.

[42] It's just martial arts in general.

[43] Like, I mean, people who know John on a personal level and have trained with John know that John knows just as much, just as much about MMAs.

[44] Or even more about MMA than he does about Jiu -A than he does about Jiu -Jitsu.

[45] He's been coaching MMA with George and with Chris Weidman for longer than he's been coaching Jiu -Jitsu.

[46] I mean, he's only been coaching professional jit -jitsu athletes for five years.

[47] And I've watched him personally teach judo privates to Judo Olympians, watch, teach him, have him, I watch them teach wrestling privates to wrestling world team members, wrestling Olympians.

[48] You know, he knows just as much about the other martial arts as he does about Jiu -Jitsu.

[49] It's crazy.

[50] Yeah, it never walks around without a rash guard on.

[51] That's also correct.

[52] Which is the honest thing.

[53] I've seen him one time ever with a shirt on because we went to Long Island to train with Chris Weibn one time.

[54] And he forgot his change.

[55] of rash guards.

[56] So he had his street rash guard on, and he didn't have a second rash guard to change into.

[57] And Chris didn't have a rash guard for him.

[58] So they gave him like this pink flamingo t -shirt that he ended up.

[59] We did a whole session with Chris Wybman.

[60] It was right before he's going to fight Luke Rockhold the second time, which ended up never happening.

[61] But we did this whole session with John with like this pink tropical t -shirt on.

[62] And then he changed out the t -shirt to get back into his street rash guard and leave to go home.

[63] Like it was just like, I'm just like, okay, this is happening.

[64] I posted it.

[65] Everyone was freaking out about it.

[66] Just how crazy is it That he has a street rash guard Yeah he's got his he's got street rash guards He's got training rash guards And he's got like his nighttime like dinner date Rash guards like he's got like a date rash guard He's got a dinner rash guard Like he's got it all he's got it all sorted out So if he goes out of a date with a woman He wears a rash card Oh yeah he's got like he's got like this really nice Like this gray underarm or sweatshirt that he or Rashguard that he puts on And like you know like when John comes out In one of his fancy rash guards you're like Okay he's not fucking around now You're like, this guy's like, you go out to the other, you're like, all right, this guy means business tonight.

[67] Has anybody ever asked him what the fuck is going on?

[68] Yeah, I mean, so he just likes to wear rash guards because of the fact that they dry fast, the fact that they're cool, they keep you cool, they keep you warm.

[69] If they get wet, they dry fast.

[70] And they're just tight -fitting.

[71] He likes tight -fitting clothes.

[72] So he just prefers to wear them.

[73] He thinks they're more efficient than T -shirts are.

[74] It's just so odd.

[75] But that's part of John Dund.

[76] Donner always has a fanny pack, respect.

[77] I respect to fanny pack.

[78] I mean, one of the great mysteries of the world is what he has inside that fanny pack.

[79] It's kind of thick.

[80] It is.

[81] It's a large fanny pack.

[82] He's got a lot of stuff inside there.

[83] He's, it's just, it's so fascinating to watch what he's done in coaching this Donnerd Death Squad and create, like, he's unquestionably the greatest jihitsu coach on earth.

[84] And this is also widely regarded.

[85] Like the way you're widely regarded.

[86] regarded as the best pound -for -pound grappler.

[87] He's widely regarded as the best Jiu -Jitsu coach.

[88] It's really interesting to see that you guys just have been dominating the grappling scene and to watch all this play out and to see people study you guys, but still not be able to catch up.

[89] Yeah, I mean, what most people do is they just see like a general outline of what we do.

[90] But no one looks at the specifics of what we're doing.

[91] They say, oh, you know, Gordon's a good leg lock, or let me try to do leg locks.

[92] Gordon's trapping hands from the back, let me try to do that.

[93] But they don't see the very specific details.

[94] And the specific details are what's going to be the difference between finishing a high -level guy and having a high -level guy escape.

[95] So whatever it does is they just see the general idea and have the general outline of what we're doing, and they try to just copy that.

[96] But when you just try to copy the best guys, if you just try to copy everyone else, you get the same results as everybody else.

[97] You have to go further than what the best guys are doing.

[98] And you have to innovate.

[99] And, you know, I look at the other best guys in the world.

[100] and I say, what are they doing?

[101] You know, that works against the other high -level guys, and how can I make that better?

[102] Not just let me try to arbitrarily copy what they're trying to do.

[103] Now, what is missing in, like, if you take the rest of the people that are in the top 10, like, what are they doing differently?

[104] What everyone does in Jiu -Jitsu is they try to do the least amount of work possible to win a J -Jitsu match, right?

[105] So they try to jump past your guard, they score an advantage, they score a couple points, and then for the next seven minutes, they do nothing.

[106] Whereas what we try to do is we try to take the hardest route to a victory and we try to submit the guy.

[107] So what you see is a complete, there's just a complete different mindset between what the rest of the guys are doing and what we're trying to do.

[108] We're trying to go out and we're not satisfied unless we hit a submission.

[109] And in my case, sometimes I call the submission and I'm trying to, you know, go out and hit a specific submission.

[110] But, you know, they're happy just going out and having a match for this 10 minutes in the feet.

[111] They just hang on each other's collar ties, and then they win a rough decision, and they run around beating their chest like they just, they did something.

[112] So just the mindset and the mindset for winning in competition is completely different.

[113] Now, how did that happen?

[114] How did Jiu -Jitsu get to be this sport where you have so many stalemates?

[115] You have so many guys that do this thing where they run around just collar -tiring each other and pushing each other around, and no one ever takes a chance.

[116] No one ever realizes that, you know, hey, we've only got four minutes to go.

[117] I got to make something happen?

[118] I think it's training program.

[119] I think that the rule sets mean very little.

[120] If you look at a guy like Hodger Gracie, no matter what rule set he competes in, he's trying to finish you.

[121] If you look at me, no matter what rule set you go into, I'm trying to finish you.

[122] If it's EBI rules, I'm trying to finish you.

[123] If it's IBJF rules, I'm trying to finish you.

[124] And, you know, I think that most people's training programs are built around positional control and doing the least amount of work possible to win.

[125] You know, people train stalling tactics.

[126] You know, we don't, we don't do that.

[127] We just try to get better at J -Jit -2 and better at submissions.

[128] Whereas our training program is built around control that leads to submission.

[129] So no matter what, no matter what rules that we go and to compete under, we're always trying to control the guy and then submit him.

[130] Whereas most people, they have a training program built around positional advances where they're just trying to do whatever they can to win and a win and if, however they win, they're happy with it.

[131] And what year did you start with John?

[132] How long ago?

[133] I started training with them.

[134] I started training The first time I ever started training with him was 2014.

[135] Was that the first time you trained?

[136] Or had you trained somewhere else first?

[137] No, I started training late 2010, almost 2011.

[138] With Miguel Benitez.

[139] He was one of Ricardo Almeda's brown belts owned his school.

[140] And this guy, Miguel Benitez, was a blue belt under the guy who owned one of Ricardo's affiliate schools.

[141] I started training under him from like white to middle.

[142] level blue belt.

[143] And then Gary actually took over, Gary Tonin took over the school when I was like a purple belt.

[144] And then purple belt, I started training part time with John because I just graduated high school and I had to go to college and work to afford to get to the city.

[145] But then somewhere around mid level purple belt, I think it was like 2000, mid to late 2014 is when I started training with John full time.

[146] So I've been training with John full time like six years or so.

[147] And has the training changed since you first started, like, and if you discussed this with John, because he's got such a complex system of training and taking people through positional dominance to submission, like, has this evolved during the time that you've been with him?

[148] Like, what was it like at the beginning?

[149] Yeah, at first it was just he was just trying to get us better at jih Tzu, specifically better at leg locks, because the big hole in the high -level competition, Jiu -Jitsu, a scene was leg -locks.

[150] Nobody really knew how to do leg -locks well.

[151] So the first couple years of us training was just him trying to get us competent and then eventually to be the best in leg -locking.

[152] And then once we got there and once we could beat the best guys in the world or at least hang with the best guys in the world, then it was more specific towards winning under certain.

[153] rules sets, you know, EBI came along and, you know, okay, how can now, you guys can do Jiu -Jitsu, you're competent everywhere, how can you succeed, and how can you beat certain players, or how can you win under specific rule sets?

[154] So it went from just a broad idea of initially getting better at Jiu -Jitsu, just as a whole, and then more specifically, how can I win ADCC, how can I win EBI, how can I beat this guy, how can I beat that guy?

[155] But has his training program evolved in terms of like how he takes people through advancements, like how they start out in learning and then get to a place of a position where they're a black belt in competition.

[156] Like, does he have this all written out?

[157] Like, how is he doing this?

[158] Yeah, I mean, he doesn't tell us too much about it.

[159] He kind of just comes in and he shows up and he teaches moves and you're like, okay, this is what John's teaching.

[160] This is what we should be, we should be doing.

[161] But a lot of it has, we used to just do all open rounds.

[162] Now we have a lot more positional rounds in place where we start in certain positions so that if we get, get to those specific positions, even though people have been training for twice as long as us, we've been training a lot longer in those specific niche positions than they have.

[163] So we actually have a lot more experience in those positions than they do, even though they've been training jiu -jitsu for much longer than we have.

[164] So our whole thing is to get to our key positions where we know where if we have one breakthrough, if I can get to the guy's back or I can get to the guy's legs, we've been in those static positions a lot longer than the other guys have.

[165] And even though they've been training twice or three times as long as we have, we've been having, we have a lot more experience in those domains than they do.

[166] Now, did that start with EBI where they have that very specific two option positions after the first initial time period?

[167] That was a big part of it.

[168] You know, when EBI came out, we actually came into the gym one day and we tried to do back escapes.

[169] And it was just the worst workout ever.

[170] Like we had a zero percent escape rate.

[171] Nobody escaped.

[172] and John's like, fuck, like, this is going to be a real problem.

[173] If someone locks a body triangle on you, you know, like none of us figured out how to get out.

[174] He comes in the next day, and he finds a match between Hodra Gracie and Tim Kennedy and MMA.

[175] And Tim Kennedy successfully escaped Hodger's back control multiple times during the match.

[176] So this guy went home and spent the entire night looking for matches where guys, high -level guys can escape the back.

[177] And he came in and he taught us to escape that Tim Kennedy used versus Hoddle.

[178] And we went from one day having a 0 % escape rate to like an 80 % escape rate the next day and then we kind of just built it from there and everything snowballed and then, you know, we ended up dominating the EBIs So it really takes a combination of things.

[179] It takes obsessed athletes and it takes an obsessed trainer and An obsessed trainer in in one way there's something interesting about John in that he's he's injured like his knees all fucked up.

[180] He's at a hip replacement and from rugby, right?

[181] Yeah, yeah Yeah.

[182] And, you know, he can't compete, but when he was training early in his career, like, everybody's talk about how, what a motherfucker he was.

[183] Yeah, I remember it early in his, his...

[184] Even being all fucked up, like, he was still beating up, like, the best guys in the world.

[185] It was crazy.

[186] Like, imagine only being able to use one of your legs.

[187] Like, I tore my LCL, and I was like, there's no way I can train with the blue belt right now, never mind having to train with the best guys in the world.

[188] yeah it's um it's pretty remarkable but his mind is so unusual it's so extraordinary and when you take the two the combination of that like he's got such a dedicated crew of assassins too this is also interesting because it seems like his dedication and his obsession is at least partially contagious yes and then you guys also motivate each other and the success obviously the Donnaard Death Squad is so well known and so successful, that must be motivating as well, and it's also attracting a lot of other killers that want to be like you guys to come there to train and learn and grow.

[189] But it's such a, it's such a unique combination.

[190] Yeah, I mean, you see a guy like John who's injured, and he's just miserable some days because he's in so much pain.

[191] He comes in every single day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, and he gives his best every single session.

[192] So, you know, you as an athlete, now this guy's giving you all that he can for not asking anything in return.

[193] The only thing he's asking for is that you show up.

[194] So, like, you have basically a series of cheat codes in front of you, and they're there all year around every single day.

[195] You kind of feel like a shitbag if you don't show up the train.

[196] So it's like, you know, this guy's giving you everything.

[197] It's like, okay, if I don't show up, like I'm kind of an asshole.

[198] We went to dinner after the last event that they had here when you fought Wagner Rocha.

[199] and John was outlining what happens when guys come to train.

[200] Like, guys have never been there before.

[201] He's like, all right, I'll see you tomorrow.

[202] And tomorrow, yes, tomorrow.

[203] Like, you guys train like this every day?

[204] Seven days a week.

[205] That's what's crazy.

[206] Like, there's no days off?

[207] No days off.

[208] Is there an argument against that?

[209] I don't really think so.

[210] I mean, if we're tired, we just train lighter.

[211] You know, there's no, even if I feel like, I'm just completely beat up, and I just, I don't want to get up and go to training.

[212] Even if I just go there and I train really light, and I'm there mentally, and you're thinking about the sport, I mean, you're getting better, whereas if you just spend the day on the beach or something, then you're not thinking about the sport, and it hinders progression.

[213] So I think that, you know, some people argue you need a rest day, you need this, you need that.

[214] I mean, if I have a rest day, I can rest, and I can not train hard, and I just go lighter, maybe I work on submissions, maybe I'm playing defensive the whole time, and I get submitted 10 times during the session.

[215] Who cares?

[216] You know, you're training lighter, but you're, you're actively resting and you're still thinking about the sport, so you're there mentally.

[217] That's very controversial, though, because most trainers in most sports will tell you that you need rest days, that you need days where you do nothing, and that even days where you don't even think about your sport, because that's actually going to refresh your enthusiasm.

[218] Yeah, John's the exact opposite.

[219] Like, for us, he says, like, in order to stay interested in the sport, you need to be constantly working towards goals.

[220] and you constantly need to be innovating so that you're working on new things.

[221] I mean, people get bored with Jiu -Jitsu when they're working on the same thing for six months at a time, a year of time.

[222] They're not getting any better.

[223] They hit a plateau, and then they feel like, you know, I've been doing the same shit for the last two years.

[224] I'm bored of it.

[225] I don't really want to do this anymore.

[226] Whereas with us, every day, it's something new.

[227] You know, every week is something new.

[228] Every six months, you turn into a completely different grappler.

[229] So it's easy to stay interested in a sport that you come in and you know that you're going to show up to a session.

[230] And if you don't show up to that session, that John's going to teach something that you probably have never seen before, something that's new.

[231] And, you know, you're going to come in the next day and everyone's going to be trying to hit it on you.

[232] You'd be like, what the fuck is this?

[233] When did you teach this?

[234] And you were like, oh, yesterday when you weren't here.

[235] And it's like, oh, okay, that makes sense.

[236] Wow.

[237] So it really does demand a synergy between an obsessed trainer and obsessed students.

[238] Yeah.

[239] Like, John goes home, like, we're like bullshitting right now talking.

[240] Or, like, you go home and you go home.

[241] watch TV and relax, John goes home and he studies tape.

[242] Like, John just, like, what he does for fun is he studies tape on, on various martial arts.

[243] Like, you reference any fight or any wrestling match or any boxing match or jit -to match.

[244] Like, John will give you, like, a full background story on the whole, like he just, he knows everything, not even just about martial arts, he just knows everything about everything.

[245] He's like the closest thing to Google that you can get, in my opinion.

[246] Like, you just ask him a question about any given subject, and he knows something about it.

[247] Um, so, you know, when he goes home every night and he studies tape, you, you, you know for a fact that the next day he's coming in and he's showing you something that he watched from like the huge, like the other day, he showed us something that, uh, uh, uh, an Asian kid hit from the U23 world championships in like 2018 that he was like, uh, that he was, uh, taking people down with in, uh, in the wrestling championships.

[248] And it's just like this guy, like went home and like started watching the U23 worlds from like 2018.

[249] Like, who does that?

[250] He and Lex Friedman had a conversation while we were at dinner where Lex brought up some obscure wrestlers from Dagestan, and John was like, oh, yes, yes.

[251] And he starts going into detail about these people.

[252] That's crazy.

[253] And also, he studies why they're successful.

[254] Like, that's a fascinating thing, too.

[255] You know, he doesn't just study the fact that this is a group of people doing things.

[256] It's like, why are they outliers?

[257] And so he analyzes what causes an outlier.

[258] Yeah.

[259] Why are these guys the best in the world?

[260] Yeah.

[261] And then he applies that.

[262] And he really does.

[263] I mean, that's the crazy thing is that when you look at the domination of your team and you look at it over the course of, you know, six years, it's relentless.

[264] Like, it's continual.

[265] It's constant.

[266] And it keeps going.

[267] And because of this philosophy of seven days a week training and constant innovation and always refreshing the mind with new techniques and always stimulating the athletes.

[268] with new options, you're seeing this never -ending progression where, as I look at other teams and you get these elite guys who are at a world championship level, and even elite guys at a world championship level, even though they win world championships and they do really well, they are stagnant in their progress, at least observationally.

[269] You know, they don't look any different.

[270] What most people do is they get to a certain level, usually in J -Jutu, it's black belt, and they coast on that technique.

[271] and they get a little bit more physically mature.

[272] Most the most high -level competitors get their black belt at 22, 23, 24, and they get physically more mature until they're 30, but they don't ever progress technically.

[273] Whereas with us, like, every six months, like if I fought myself at 2019 ADCC right now, I'll crush myself.

[274] So that's the thing, is always constant progression working towards new goals and new heights.

[275] What is your ultimate end goal?

[276] Do you have an ultimate end goal?

[277] Now here you are so young to be not just, the best on the planet but arguably the best of all time at 25 yeah um I just I just want to finish my career and I want people to think that okay there's just absolutely no chance that anyone could ever touch what you've done in your career like right now sure I'm arguably the best of all time but you know people can surpass my records when I finish my career I want people to sit back and think wow like no one's ever going to get close to that that's a that's a wild goal but that keeps you motivated yeah i mean since you're already the best because you're in a weird situation i should tell people that don't understand jiu jitsu or don't know the the landscape you can't get fights you're having a really hard time getting fights i mean props to it's been tough vagner for stepping up because he's a smaller guy and you know and he's one of the rare elite black belts that did choose to step up because you're you're in this weird position right now where people are worried about the reputation Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because, like, I'm, like, one of the nicer guys to compete against.

[278] Like, I don't rip submissions.

[279] I'm not, like, smacking you in the face or poking you in the eyes.

[280] Like, I'm pretty mild as far as, like, you know, being, like, very physical when I compete against you.

[281] I'm actually pretty nice when I compete against you.

[282] If you look at a guy like Tyson, like, he was just murdering people, and he had no shortage of fights.

[283] Like, everyone wanted to fight him.

[284] It's just so strange that there's not even strikes involved, and I just can't get people to actually step up to compete.

[285] It's weird.

[286] Do you think that's a financial thing, though?

[287] because when Tyson was involved, at least you get a couple million bucks, you get your head knocked off.

[288] It could be.

[289] Like, people are fighting me for like $6 ,000.

[290] Yeah.

[291] So, I mean, it's definitely, it's definitely, you know, that if you're, if you're going to get out, get knocked out by Tyson for $10 million, it's a little bit different than getting embarrassed by a shit talk, shit talking fucking Gordon for like $5 grand.

[292] That's the other thing that's unusual about you is that when people think about successful martial artists, they think of these stoic warriors who bow to each other and show respect.

[293] you talk so much shit and you talk so much shit to people online you go back and forth with people online you post pictures of them looking stupid you make like memes you have all these things you put out you use social media and most people who do things the way you do it suck yes that's what's crazy it's like to be the best of the best but also to be talking mad shit all the time it's one of those combinations where i'm sure your opponents are like fuck yeah Well, if you talk shit and you don't have the skills to actually back it up, you just look like a clown.

[294] Yeah.

[295] Like, you're like a guy like Dylan who just talks shit on Instagram, but then he's like 18 and 16 is a black belt.

[296] Like, he has like two, like two fights against some guys in Beltor.

[297] But if you can go out and you can, you can talk shit, you can say, I'm going to do this.

[298] Like you can say, I'm going to finish this mission.

[299] I'm going to finish this match by triangle and then go out and finish match by triangle.

[300] Like people like, oh shit.

[301] Like, even if they hate you, they have no choice but to listen to you and respect you.

[302] Well, I like what you did with your first One of your matches that I saw It was a couple of matches ago You said you were going to finish with a mounted triangle But you said that before the match A mounted arm bar, yeah Mounted arm bar, excuse me And then this last match You drew a picture of a triangle Put it in an envelope And then gave it to the commentator and said Don't open this until after the match And you finished by triangle But that time you didn't let him out The first time you said it in advance though I said it right before the match So you probably didn't see it I posted it right before the match But the chances of him Looking at it when he was like getting ready to walk out We're probably pretty low Whereas the one with Wagner There's no way I could have seen it Because I just I put it in the envelope And they didn't open it until after the event Yeah because there was there was times When you had him in good positions Where I was wondering Like if you were letting him go Because you said that you wanted to maul him Yeah I wanted to I wanted to Abuse him for like the first 20 minutes And then finish him with like 10 it's left, which is what I did.

[303] If I wanted to triangle him before that, I could have probably done it pretty easily, especially on the back.

[304] But that's just not what I wanted to do.

[305] Why did you want to punish him like that?

[306] Just because we have some history.

[307] He used to, whenever we competed, he would always be, like, super dirty and, like, you know, putting his hands in my face.

[308] And he's just, like, a very aggressive style competitor.

[309] And when I was, like, 18, 19, it was always, he would always, like, walk around backstage and, like, knock my crowns off my head like that I used to wear folks need to know this used to wear a Burger King crown Burger King crown and now I've updated to a plastic crown I walk around tournaments with like a robe like a king's robe and a crown of my head and then everyone's like who's this asshole I'm like I'm the asshole who's going to win the tournament tomorrow so I show up and it's just like super obnoxious and then I just show up and I just beat everybody up and everyone's like wow that fucking asshole with a crown but it's such a weird combination like Like the first picture with the robot, I showed up to Nogi Worlds like that.

[310] And I was coaching the day before.

[311] So I show up and I'm just walking around the pyramid in California like that.

[312] And I'm everyone, I'm just coaching like my Blue Belt students, like the team members that are like in that.

[313] And people are like, wow, this guy's really like dressed like that right now.

[314] And I'm like, yep, I'm really dressed like that.

[315] And then I just show up the next day and double gold.

[316] And everyone's like, wow, that fucking asshole.

[317] Have you always been like that?

[318] Have you always been a guy who talked a lot of shit?

[319] No. It all started when I won my first EBI and people were giving me shit about how I shouldn't have beat Yuri.

[320] And when people started hating online, I'm like, you know what, fuck this.

[321] I'm not going to be quiet.

[322] I'm just going to go back at them.

[323] Because I realized early on that no matter how nice you are, people are always going to talk shit, no matter what you do, people are going to talk shit.

[324] Like George is the nicest guy ever and people are like, what a fucking pussy, that guy sucks.

[325] he just lays in praise and people give George shit and George's the nicest guy ever.

[326] So I'm like, you know, well, if people are going to talk shit regardless, I may as well just say and do what I want and just be authentic and have fun with it.

[327] That's funny.

[328] But it's just, it seems almost out of place for someone who's as good as you are.

[329] Yeah, I mean, most people with this kind of talent don't do it, but it's fun for me. And I just feel like it just upsets so many people and they take it so seriously and I don't.

[330] And I'm just sitting there like, I'm sitting there like, laughing behind my keyboard and everyone's like pulling their hair out on the other side of the screen and I know that it upsets so many people and uh you know it's just it's easy to run with it it's just when you see people react like cyborg in particular the second fight that you have with cyborg how many times you twice twice okay the second one the first one you submitted him with the second one he's literally swinging at your head like making it look like he's touching head but he's actually smacking you yes he just he smacked me like I think it was 14 times and match and then finally like the last second of the match they they decued him for it last second of nine minutes and 59 seconds the Brazilian refs all waited until the last possible second and they decued him for smacking me and then I won by DQ because he was smacking me did you talk to him about it afterwards uh we talked we kind of squashed our beef and now we're cool like uh I was like you know this is all fun for me like don't take it's so personal it's like you you can't like it's just business like you can't you can't take it personally like sure some things I do.

[331] First of all, I only attack guys who, you know, have started shit with me or started shit with my team or inadvertently or passive -aggressively.

[332] You talk shit about, you know, our team or myself.

[333] The problem is I just go way further than is necessary.

[334] Like, they start at like level two and I just go to a level 1 ,000, like, right away.

[335] And I just don't stop.

[336] Like, it's like, they like, they like talk shit about me like 2015 and we're like 2021 and I'm like still just berating them every day.

[337] So I just go way overboard and that's where people get upset about.

[338] But I never actually attacked someone who hasn't started with me first.

[339] It's just funny, the dedication to shit talking.

[340] Yeah, I mean, it's a full -time job.

[341] But now I can't even do it because Instagram just erases all my post.

[342] Really?

[343] Yeah, Instagram, I just stopped pretty much using Instagram.

[344] I just post like once a day or once every other day now.

[345] But Instagram deletes, like, if I go on and I comment something and I, like, attack a hater who attacked me and retaliate, like, 60 % of my post just get erased now.

[346] So it's like, it's not even, I would spend hours a day on Instagram.

[347] It's like a full -time job.

[348] But now it's like not even worth my time because I know that if I go on and I write, you know, 30 comments, 20 of them are going to get erased.

[349] So it's not even worth my time dealing with it anymore.

[350] What do you think is going on?

[351] Do you think someone's reporting them?

[352] I think it's a combination of people reporting it, and I think it's just the algorithm has, like, has a hit on me. And I think that, like, like, as it shows you your violations, I have, like, hundreds of violations, like 300 violations.

[353] Like, I tell people to kill themselves and stuff.

[354] So, like, now they just started threatening to delete my account, and they delete, like, all my comments.

[355] So it's not even worth going on and attacking people, like, because normally it's fun for me to entertain the fans by attacking the haters.

[356] Yeah.

[357] But now it's just like Instagram just erased, like, 60 % of my shit, so it's not even worth attacking people because you spend six hours online and four hours them are useless because all your comments just get erased.

[358] So even if you just have a post and leave the post up, if you have comments under the post, they'll delete your comments?

[359] They don't delete my comments, yeah.

[360] Yeah.

[361] I didn't even know they did that.

[362] Yeah, yeah.

[363] They delete comments all the time.

[364] Like, people attack me. I retaliate, and then they start to, uh...

[365] And then we go back and forth, and then, like, the whole comment section gets erased.

[366] So you spend, like, four hours on a comment thread, and then the original comment gets erased.

[367] And then before you know it, like, you just spent four hours on Instagram and it was all useless.

[368] What the fuck is wrong with them?

[369] It just, it just drives me nuts.

[370] I don't understand why they do it.

[371] And it's just getting worse.

[372] Like, it's not...

[373] not getting any better.

[374] So now I just go on, like once every, once every day or so, once every other day, I just promote like a fight coming up or an instructional that's coming out and then I just, I don't even bother arguing with people.

[375] What about videos?

[376] Can you make videos like YouTube videos or talking shit in an Instagram video?

[377] Will they delete that?

[378] Depends on, I mean, if people report it, they pretty much just, because I have so many strikes against me, they pretty much just, if someone reports it, they just instantly delete it and they don't even give me a chance to fight it anymore.

[379] They're just like, yeah, fuck you.

[380] You had so many violations that they they just erase it but um i definitely i can do some stuff uh but it's it's getting the window of what i can work with is getting small and smaller by the day so it's just like i it's just it is one of the weirdest problems to have to be the best in the world at something and then have someone like instagram like deleting comments and i'm like i'm like permaband on Facebook.

[381] Like I get like 30 ban days.

[382] I'm okay for like two days and then they just ban me for 30 days.

[383] And they'll go back and they'll find shit from like 2015.

[384] They'd like this goes against community standards.

[385] Ban for 30 days.

[386] Ban for 30 days.

[387] I've been like the last year I probably had like four active days on Facebook and then I'm just banned for the next 30 days every single time.

[388] It's just like I can't even I can't even use it anymore.

[389] How do you have time to do that though with all the training?

[390] So that's what I do for fun.

[391] Like most people watch TV.

[392] I just go on Instagram and I attack people like I get home I eat my food I'm like eating my food and I go on and typing and I'm like I like tell I tell Matt I'm like man I just I just crush this guy on Instagram and I could read her the thread she's like yeah it's gonna get deleted and then 30 minutes later like oh this goes against hate speech hate speech so it's just like I would I always used to do it for fun but now it's not even fun because it just waste my time doing it now obviously the next course of progression for a guy like you would be MMA yeah now I know that you had talked about doing in MMA in the past, but now it seems like it's actually going to happen.

[393] Yeah.

[394] So John doesn't want me to compete in MMA because he feels like Jiu -Jitsu is just about to break into that next level of professional sports.

[395] So for me, at least right now, I feel like I need at least someone from my team to be able to do the things that I'm doing before I can kind of move away from Jiu -Jitsu into MMA.

[396] Because right now we have Gary in M -M -M -A, he's carrying our team's flag in M -M -A, and we have me at the top of the heap in J -Jitsu.

[397] So like if Craig or Nikki Rod and my brother can start doing the things that I'm doing and they win in ATCC Absolute maybe or they go out and they start beating and submitting all the high level guys, then I feel like maybe I can leave Jitsu because if I started fighting MMA I'm going to focus on MMA.

[398] So I feel like if one of my teammates can kind of take my place, then I can start moving into MMA and then go from there.

[399] So you look at it as a, you really do genuinely look it as a team effort.

[400] You're not looking at just as an individual.

[401] Most athletes are very selfish and they just take, take, take, whereas we have a, we have a very great, a very good team cohesion.

[402] And, you know, we're always looking out for one another.

[403] And, you know, I find that that's the way that people operate best.

[404] If you look at most teams, it's basically just a bunch of tough guys in the room who train together, who have no loyalty.

[405] And if someone offers them a better deal, they're going to go somewhere else and train there.

[406] Whereas with us, we're very loyal to John.

[407] And, you know, everything that we do is.

[408] the same.

[409] Like my game is very similar to Johns, very similar to Gary's, very similar to Craig's.

[410] We all are taught by John and we all follow the same ideas and the same philosophy of Jiu -Jitsu.

[411] So the loyalty within the team is very strong and I feel that it's always going to be a team effort.

[412] Without John, I wouldn't be as good as I am, without Gary, I wouldn't be as good as I am, without Nikki.

[413] It's the collaboration of minds in the gym that really pushes you forward.

[414] So, you know, I feel like we're different in that sense that we're We're not a team that recruits people.

[415] We're a team that builds athletes from almost the ground up.

[416] Like you see, like, a lot of the big MMA teams, or even the big jih Tzu teams, like Atos, for example, they recruit guys, guys who are already successful.

[417] They recruit them, they give them a place to live.

[418] They give them a training program, and they just recruit tough guys.

[419] But if you look at a guy like Andre, and you look at his black belts, they all have vastly different games.

[420] Kynan's game is different than Andres.

[421] Hangers game is different than Andres.

[422] Kenan's game is different than Andres.

[423] And it's basically just a team of recruited guys who are a bunch of tough guys training in the same room.

[424] Whereas John, we have a team of homegrown guys who all do the same thing.

[425] Like they all have discernible games that all mimic what John teaches and they just have slight changes and variations due to our physical attributes and personalities.

[426] Now, when you say you think of it as a team, this has taken it to a completely different level because you're not willing to progress your career outside the realm of Jiu -Jitsu until someone else can carry the crown.

[427] That's next level commitment to the team philosophy.

[428] Yeah, I mean, like I said, you have a guy like John who's like the most selfless person in the world.

[429] Like he shows up every day and he gives you everything.

[430] Like, you know, I want what's best for the team, even if it's not what's best for me. You know, I want to, I want what's best for John's team.

[431] You know, I want him to go down in history as being the guy who had the absolute best team in the world.

[432] And, you know, right now you can make the argument that, sure, you know, Gordon's the best in the world, but the rest of the guys don't win as much as him.

[433] So I want to get the rest of the guys on my team to my level so that you don't have the argument anymore of, sure, Gordon's good, but he's the only one who really wins when it counts.

[434] You know, I want to go into ADCC with my team, and I want to win every single division.

[435] So that would be insane.

[436] You know, that's not outside the realm of possibility either.

[437] That's what's crazy.

[438] Yeah, I mean, next year we have Gary might cut to 66 kilos.

[439] So if Gary's at 66, my brother will be at 77, Craig will be at 88, I'll be at 99 if they let me do the division.

[440] And then Nicky Rod will be at 99 plus.

[441] Would you mean if they let you do the division?

[442] So for ADCCC, when you win the absolute, you go to the superfight.

[443] So the superfight champion fights the winner of the absolute.

[444] Now, I won the absolute last year, so I'm only supposed to have one fight, but I've requested to do the weight division as well, because you normally would just do the super fight.

[445] But I want to do the super fight, and I also want to do my weight division.

[446] So instead of having one match, I'd have five matches.

[447] No one's ever asked to do that.

[448] People have asked to do the absolute before, but the problem is if I win the absolute and then I win the super fight, the superfight winner is supposed to fight the absolute winner.

[449] So you can't fight yourself.

[450] Right.

[451] So it doesn't make sense to do the superfight.

[452] and the absolute.

[453] But it does make sense to do the weight division and the absolute.

[454] So if I, if they let me do the weight division, I'll be the first person in history to ever, to ever do the weight division plus the super fight at the same time.

[455] Wow.

[456] Now, how is Gary juggling training for MMA and Jiu -Jitsu as well?

[457] That guy is a machine.

[458] He basically just, he didn't, he didn't do less Jiu -Jitsu to do M -M -M -A.

[459] He just added MMA on top of the J -Jitsu sessions.

[460] So he trains MMA seven days a week and he spars lightly seven days a week and then he finishes that and right now we don't have a gym set up in Puerto Rico so we're working around the schedule the class schedule of the gym owner so we have MAM he does MMA at 9 and then he trains for like an hour spars then he has like a 30 minute break and then he does and then he does Jiu -Jitsu at 11 and he just adds a session on so he does MMA and Jiu -Sathe's seven days a week and within like two hours of each other and when he's training MMA he's also grappling.

[461] Yeah.

[462] So he's grappling twice.

[463] Yeah.

[464] Most of the MMA training is shootboxing is standing to take downs because he's already so good on the ground.

[465] He needs to get, he needs to work on fence wrestling and shoot boxing.

[466] But he definitely is some grappling when he does MMA.

[467] So he grapples and spars and then he pretty much goes right to jihitsu and has to do that.

[468] So, I mean, that's definitely not an easy thing to do and seven days a week is definitely not an easy thing to do.

[469] And how is he doing it in terms of striking coaching?

[470] Like, did he bring someone with him to Puerto Rico?

[471] Was he using a different person in New York?

[472] What was he doing?

[473] He uses John.

[474] John is our striking coach.

[475] Really?

[476] I'm telling you, John knows just as much about every martial art as he does Jiu -Jitsu.

[477] Like, John is a wrestling coach.

[478] John's our jiu -scoach, John's our striking coach.

[479] John's our M .M .A. coaches Gary for every aspect of M .A. Wall wrestling, everything.

[480] Holy shit.

[481] Yeah.

[482] So he coaches him for kicking and everything?

[483] Yeah.

[484] Dude, people don't know this about John.

[485] John's first martial art was moitai.

[486] John did moitai for over a decade when he was growing up and he studied all the best, Moitai guys.

[487] I mean, John knows a lot about striking.

[488] I mean, he coached, like I said, like people don't know this about John.

[489] They think he's just a leglock guy or just a grappler.

[490] Like, he coaches Gary.

[491] And Gary's like, he's progressing fast as far as a striking.

[492] He's only been striking for a year and a half now and he's, you know, he looks comfortable out there.

[493] He does.

[494] That's shocking that he's only been doing a year and a half.

[495] Yeah, a year and a half, two years maybe.

[496] But yeah, John's his coach.

[497] John coaches everything.

[498] So does he have different training partners to train with him in the MMA aspect?

[499] Yeah, so he has a couple guys who live there, and then he has a couple guys who he brings in who stay with him.

[500] He's a guy of a three -bedroom apartment.

[501] So he brings in guys from New York, and then he has like one or two guys that live there and he spars with them every day.

[502] Wow.

[503] So that was his approach from the minute he started competing.

[504] in the MMA?

[505] Because he said how many fights now?

[506] Six?

[507] I think six, yeah.

[508] And this is all in one championship, right?

[509] All his fights are over there.

[510] Which is the biggest thing outside of the United States.

[511] They're gigantic in Asia.

[512] Oh yeah, they're huge.

[513] Are they back to crowds?

[514] I don't believe so.

[515] I'm not positive, but I don't believe so.

[516] When Gary does this, he's still doing it seven days a week and he's still doing jiu -jitsu seven days a week.

[517] So the same approach that you guys have just for jujitsu training, he's doing with everything, but double.

[518] Yeah.

[519] I mean, if he's very tired, maybe he'll take off drilling sometimes and just train live in Jiu -MMA's his main focus, and Jiu -Jitsu is secondary focus, but he still does two sessions a day every single day, every, every day.

[520] Now, what are you guys doing for recovery?

[521] Do you do anything specific?

[522] Do you have deep tissue massage?

[523] Do you have ice baths?

[524] What do you do?

[525] I get massages sometimes, just when I feel like I'm really tight.

[526] Mostly just use a guy to help me stretch because I'm not disciplined enough to stretch like I should normally.

[527] You saying you're not disciplined enough to do anything is fucking hilarious.

[528] Like to stretch, like I like I hate stretching.

[529] A lot of people hate stretching.

[530] It's weird.

[531] In our, like in our sport, like we spend all of our time doing this with concave shoulders.

[532] Yeah.

[533] So like anything where I round my shoulders, I can do perfectly.

[534] But anything where I have to bridge like this, because most people just explode, explodes.

[535] I don't ever explode.

[536] Everything's everything's always like this.

[537] contraction.

[538] So when I have to like open myself up like this, like if I try to put my hands over my head and do a squat, like my hands end up like almost parallel to the floor.

[539] Like my shoulders is just like the most inflexible thing.

[540] So I work with the guy who helps me stretch occasionally and that helps me stretch occasionally.

[541] But the big thing for me that I neglected for a long time was sleep.

[542] I feel like that if I can get like six to eight hours of sleep, I can recover, you know, pretty well.

[543] I feel like for a long time I would just get like three, four hours of sleep at night.

[544] And it was okay when I was 19 years old, but now I feel like I need the extra sleep.

[545] And I feel like if I can get a decent night's sleep, you know, I can sleep forever.

[546] So it's easy for me to have a good night's sleep and not have to wake up in the middle of the night.

[547] But if I can get a good night sleep, I feel like I can recover pretty well.

[548] So is the issue just going to bed on time?

[549] Yeah.

[550] I mean, I usually, we finish pretty early.

[551] So, you know, I do the MMA session with Gary either, now since I signed with one I've been doing a lot of fence wrestling John's been coaching me and Craig with fence wrestling because Craig's competing in SUG and I'm competing at one in the cage so I want to wrestle people on the fence a lot so I'd usually do the MMA session with Gary and then I do the Jiu -Jitsu session after that and then we come home I eat food, I relax for a little bit, I lift weights and then I'm usually in bed by like 9, 10 o 'clock and the Jitsu, the MMA doesn't start until 9 so I mean I sleep for 8 to 10 hours every night usually.

[552] So you generally like to lift weights at night?

[553] Because I've seen videos of you getting up in the morning and lifting weights in the morning.

[554] I do, yeah.

[555] Sometimes I go through kind of cycles where I'm like, man, I feel really good when I get up and I lift weights early because then it's, it's out of the way.

[556] But I'm, I've never been a morning person.

[557] I hate waking up in the mornings.

[558] So I do it for like three weeks.

[559] And then like I travel to like compete or something.

[560] And then the routine gets fucked up.

[561] And then I get back home and I'm like, I'm not waking up tomorrow at 5 a .m. to lift.

[562] So then I end up going back into a routine where I lift at like 8 p .m. And I go back and forth between when I lift.

[563] Sometimes it's before, sometimes it's after.

[564] So if you train at night, like, what time is you training over?

[565] They usually train from like 8 to 9 .30.

[566] Oh, and so then you'll lift weights after that.

[567] No, so I'll lift weights from like 8 to 9 .30.

[568] But if we train, if we train Jitsu at 11 a .m. Oh, okay.

[569] Every day.

[570] Yeah.

[571] So we're finished by two.

[572] So you have enough time to recover and eat and...

[573] Yeah.

[574] They go home, you shower if you want to hang out at the beach for a little while.

[575] You can, and then, you know, you eat food when you digested.

[576] You maybe take a nap, and then you wake up and you lift.

[577] Now, do you do anything else, like ice baths, sauna?

[578] No. No, I've never done that.

[579] I've never, I'm not opposed.

[580] Ice baths, I'm definitely opposed to.

[581] I hate cold water.

[582] I just will not knock it in like anything below 80 degrees.

[583] But I'm not opposed to anything else.

[584] I'm not opposed to saunas and stuff like that.

[585] I just, it's something that I've never done.

[586] But there's physical advantages of using those things.

[587] I'm sure there is.

[588] Do you think that that would even take you like another level past where you're at now?

[589] I could, but I don't think the gains are...

[590] I think the gains are going to be marginal.

[591] I think that the big thing is going to take me to the next level, it's just getting better at chichitsu.

[592] So that's what most of my focus is on.

[593] That's why I have to hire someone to help me stretch because I'm very disciplined with jiu -tzu and I'm relatively disciplined with weightlifting.

[594] But with anything else, I'm just like...

[595] That's like the two things I'm good at in life is like being able to lift weights and being able to do J -Jit -2 and everything else, I'm just like a complete child.

[596] Like I just like, I just refuse to do anything else besides what I have to do for my career.

[597] But I think it would help you.

[598] I think ice baths and sauna would help you.

[599] I know Sona would help you.

[600] I mean, Dan Gable was in here recently and just ranting and raving about what a gigantic impact sauna has had and how, you know, he recognized it from all these athletes overseas competing in the Olympics, how they utilized the sauna and had a big impact on them.

[601] Yeah, I'm definitely opposed to saunas.

[602] I actually like sitting in saunas and hot tubs, but I just, it's something that I don't have a sauna, and I just never, I've never done them.

[603] But if I one day I have a sauna, if I buy a house again, I'll definitely, I'll definitely think about putting a sauna in there because they're not that expensive in there.

[604] You get those barrel saunas, they're reasonably inexpensive in terms of, like, the value that you get from them.

[605] Yeah, and if it'll help, then, you know, I'm definitely, I have to do some more research, but if it'll help, I'll use it.

[606] I'll send you the research.

[607] Okay.

[608] Because I'm a sauna freak.

[609] Okay.

[610] I live by that fucking thing.

[611] I'm an old man. I always see the Photoshop, Steve, photoshopping you within sauna.

[612] Yeah, he's got a lot of good stuff to work with.

[613] But I do it every day.

[614] At least five days a week, if not seven.

[615] Yeah.

[616] I know, I know many people who use them, who swear by them as well.

[617] I just, I've never done consistently.

[618] It's got a host of benefits, but it's really good for your endurance, too, believe it or not.

[619] It actually has a mild effect.

[620] It's akin to like an EPO.

[621] Oh, okay.

[622] Yeah, it increases your red blood cell count.

[623] But the big thing is the heat shock proteins and the decrease in inflammatory markers.

[624] Like, they can monitor all this stuff and prove it with blood work.

[625] So I'll look more in Cizana's then.

[626] Yeah, it's legit.

[627] Now, in terms of striking, how much striking have you done?

[628] A minimal amount of white belt equivalent.

[629] I've done it.

[630] But the problem is when I was getting ready to initially fight MMA, It was, it was like 2018 I started, I started working with John.

[631] And then in 2000, early, no, sorry, 2019.

[632] And then early 2019, I tore my LCL and I came right back from that surgery and I had to jump right into an ADCC camp.

[633] So my thing was I had to get my knee better and then I have to prepare for 2019 ADCC.

[634] And I did 2019 ADCC and then, you know, after that, I sat down with John and, John's like, you know, this is a huge ADCC I think grappling is going to start to go into a direction where it's going to start to be like a real professional sport.

[635] I think you should stick with grappling at least for a few more years before you do before he decide to move to MMA.

[636] What John doesn't want is for me to leave grappling just as it explodes into the next level.

[637] Right.

[638] So I think that you know, after I was actually getting ready to start talking to promotions about fighting MMA and then And then I hurt my knee, and then I had to do the ADCC camp, and John's like, dude, like, you have a super fight next year.

[639] It's going to be in Vegas.

[640] Like, it's going to be huge.

[641] So he's like, just focus on that for now and then see where we go after that.

[642] Now, you started competing with, when you tore your knee, you started competing before it was really 100%.

[643] Yeah, so I competed six months to the day after the LCL reconstruction in my first tournament.

[644] And then I competed at ADCCC seven months to the day after.

[645] the reconstruction.

[646] So it definitely wasn't 100%, but it was okay enough to to compete at least.

[647] What did you do for rehab?

[648] I just work with a PT who my surgeon recommended.

[649] My big issue was that my hip on the one side locked up.

[650] So my hip, on my left hip, I tore my left LCL.

[651] My left hip locked up and was like, was losing all of its flexibility to kind of overcompensate for the LCL being torn.

[652] So a big thing was like opening up my hip and My whole left, the lower back was all tight.

[653] So a lot of it, like the first few months of rehab, which is him just working on flexibility and getting range of motion back.

[654] And then they used, for the rehab, they used that BFR, the blood flow restriction, where they put that thing around your, around your, they put a thing around my quad, and it cuts off 80 % of the blood flow.

[655] And then you do like very mild exercises, like body weight squats or lunges and stuff.

[656] And the idea is that it stops the blood flow from getting down to your liver, leg and then when you take it off the blood rushes down to the bottom of your leg and it promotes healing.

[657] So they used that and I used that for a few months and it seemed to help and then I just was like I actually, we do a 12 week ADCC camp and I was just miserable the whole camp.

[658] Like I started wrestling again and my timing was off.

[659] I was getting exhausted.

[660] I just felt terrible.

[661] And like 10 weeks into the camp, I was like, John, there's no way I'm going to be able to do this.

[662] And then like on the 11th week, I just like from a Friday to a Monday, I just came in and I just started beating the shit out of people.

[663] And I was like, wow, I think I might be able to do this.

[664] So like the whole 12 week camp, I was just miserable and I was like, there's no way I can do this.

[665] And then like a three day span, I went from like just being terrible.

[666] And then all my timing started to come back, my hand fighting from standing position started to come back.

[667] And I was like, I think I might be able to do this.

[668] And then by like the time ADCC rolled around, I was like, all right, I'm in.

[669] And it ended up working out.

[670] What do you attribute that to?

[671] Like, how did you do that?

[672] I mean, I don't know.

[673] I think it was just, I was doing rehab like I was supposed to.

[674] And the knee itself wasn't really the issue.

[675] It was just my body lagging behind for like, you know, you don't train for four months.

[676] You're all your timing, you know, your timing's all off.

[677] You get, you start wrestling and your handfighting is off.

[678] Your day late and a dollar short in your shot.

[679] So you just feel, you feel like, you know, there's nothing physically that, there's nothing that bad physically wrong with you.

[680] Like my knee wasn't like, you know, going to buckle or break.

[681] can have for anything but I just felt like my overall timing for everything was off and then uh like I started wrestling hard for like two weeks and everything started to come back and then like you know from one day to the next on which it seemed like I was like okay I feel like everything's kind of coming back now and the last like week or two before ADCC was when like I really started to feel like I was I was who I was before I hurt the knee I think John has a real point in terms of saying that grappling is on its way to becoming a legitimate professional sport, like a much bigger professional sport.

[682] I think he's right.

[683] But I think it needs you.

[684] I think it needs you.

[685] I think it needs someone like you.

[686] It needs a big personality who's also doing fucked up things like writing a triangle down on a piece of paper, putting in an envelope and handing it to the commentators before the match and then finishing someone with that.

[687] Yeah.

[688] The thing is like it needs more of me. Like one guy can only do so much.

[689] Right.

[690] So that's the issue.

[691] It's like everyone's talking about, oh, you have to be humble and respect.

[692] And Nobody wants to come out and watch an interview where the guy's like, oh, you know, I train really hard for this fight.

[693] I'm sure he trained hard too.

[694] He's really tough.

[695] It's going to be a great...

[696] Like, everyone says that.

[697] Nobody wants to fucking listen to someone coming out, and there's 20 matches, and all 20 guys say the same thing.

[698] Like, they want a guy who's coming out and like, you know, fuck this pussy, I'm going to beat the shit out of them.

[699] People are like, all right, I can get behind that.

[700] So, you know, they can kind of live vicariously through you because they want to do that.

[701] You know, they want to go up to their boss tomorrow and be like, you know, fuck you, I'm going to beat the shit out of you.

[702] And they can kind of get behind that because they can't do that in their lives.

[703] But, you know, there's always going to be a limit on how big grappling can get as a sport because grappling is a participant -based sport where most people who watch grappling, either participate in grappling or they have family members who are doing it and they're watching their cousin compete.

[704] Whereas, you know, the UFC or the NBA or the NFL, like most people who watch MMA are.

[705] and showing up the next day to get punched in the face.

[706] Like, people are just watching it because they, they want to, they want to be entertained.

[707] It's a spectator sport.

[708] So I do believe that it's going to get much bigger in the coming years, but I also believe there's going to be a cap on, like it'll never be the size of football, for example, or the UFC, for example.

[709] Yeah, it might not be, but I think it can be bigger than people give it credit for because of the submissions, because people are so accustomed to seeing submissions in MMA.

[710] Yeah.

[711] And to see people pull off submissions in Jiu -Jitsu.

[712] It's like a knockout in boxing.

[713] Yes, yes.

[714] especially when you have good commentary, which who's number one does, you know, and a lot of these commentators are really educated now because they're such fans of the sport so they could talk people through submissions and let people know exactly what's happening and when someone's in danger and when they're free.

[715] But I think you're right in terms of we need more big personalities and more competition.

[716] The fact that you're having a hard time getting matches is weird.

[717] You know, with all these big heavyweights out there.

[718] There's a lot of guys who are your size who, they're not stepping up.

[719] Yeah.

[720] And another thing you need, too, is you need a training program that pushes you towards submissions.

[721] Like, nobody wants to watch two guys in 50 -50 fighting to fucking scissor back and forth until someone gets an advantage.

[722] And then you come up and, you know, people want to see movement, which is exciting.

[723] Okay.

[724] Ultimately, what people are looking for is movement because people aren't moving.

[725] There's no excitement.

[726] they want movement and they want they want submissions submission is equivalent to a knockout yeah and if you have a training program like I said before built around just doing the absolute minimal amount of work to win then you're going to be boring but if you if you want to take the hardest route and you'll say okay how can I fight to a submission there has to be a lot of movement to get a submission you got to work through various you know positional gains to get to a submission in most cases and you submit a guy and you're like okay people are like okay I can get behind that like people see an arm break people see a guy get shrunkled unconscious and they're like wow that was fucking that was intense is john does he have a game plan to try to elevate the status of grappling or to elevate the profile of it um so he's talked about us he talked about this to us um i remember i had one of the most important conversations of my career um when john told us that you just you have to be exciting in one way or another um if you look at a guy like chel sun and for example he doesn't have, you know, he hasn't defended the UFC title for 10 years in a row, but he was entertaining outside of the ring.

[727] So even though he didn't have the skills to beat the best guys consistently, people wanted to watch him because he was entertaining and he was different.

[728] Where if you look at a guy like George, George wasn't really entertaining outside of the ring, but he would just go in and just beat everybody for, you know, over the course of two or three generations.

[729] And he's like, if you look at notoriously, who the most remembered and highest paid highest paid people, it's the people that were entertaining in the competition and outside of the competition.

[730] You look at Tyson, you look at Muhammad Ali, look at Connor, you know, guys that have the skills to back up what they're saying so that they're entertaining outside before the fight.

[731] People want to watch that.

[732] Like, he kind of goes to a press conference.

[733] Everybody wants to watch it.

[734] You know, George goes to a press conference that everyone knows what's going to happen.

[735] George is going to be like, oh, you know, he's very tough.

[736] I'm excited to fight him.

[737] But Conn goes to a press conference, he's fucking throwing monster cans and shit of people.

[738] Who the fuck is that guy?

[739] People want to watch that.

[740] But on the same token, the shit talk is the easy part, and it only takes you so far.

[741] Like, you only get so far with shit talk.

[742] So that's why you need to have the skills in order to actually be able to back up the shit talk.

[743] And John told us that we need to be exciting, either on or off the mat.

[744] We need to be different.

[745] and we just need to focus on being the best in the world he's like all the all the you know pre -fight antics and all the shit talk and all the all the interviews that's the easy stuff the hard part is being the best in the world like if you just focus on being the absolute best in the world and that's your primary focus everything else comes easy so he set me down when i was like 17 and he talked to he talked to us about this and i was like you know what that that makes sense and then like a few years later i was like man maybe i should create like this king ryan persona like it's different People can get behind it and it's entertaining and then you know it ended up working out So it was like sort of a calculated effort.

[746] Yeah Yeah, it's it's got to be so weird to have a guy like that as a mentor Does you know there's only one of them out there?

[747] Yeah, and it's just like you know on the mats It's like literally like a cheap book like you asked John a question about anything You asked him about a striking question.

[748] You asked about a grappling question doesn't matter You ask him about a frisbee question and he knows the answer And then you have a guy who's there and all day long, all year long, and he knows everything about everything.

[749] And you're just like, wow, like, this is, this is like nothing you're ever going to find anywhere else.

[750] And he doesn't, he doesn't have kids or a wife.

[751] He doesn't have, he doesn't compete himself.

[752] So his primary focus is on just making us better.

[753] Like, that's what he loves to do.

[754] Like, most coaches, they go home and they're in their, they're in the camp for one of their own fights.

[755] They're focusing on themselves.

[756] They go home, they have a family to raise.

[757] Like, that's not John.

[758] Like, John goes home and he watches tape from a 1956 boxing match.

[759] And he comes to the next day and teaches Gary something.

[760] You can't compete with that.

[761] Yeah, it's tough.

[762] There's no other guy like that.

[763] Especially a guy like that who's, isn't he a PhD in philosophy as well?

[764] Yeah, yeah.

[765] From a legitimate university.

[766] Columbia.

[767] He was a teacher at Columbia.

[768] That's, imagine.

[769] Yeah.

[770] Where are you going to get one of those?

[771] That's, it's one of those on earth.

[772] Yeah.

[773] I mean, it's, it's tough.

[774] I mean, if you, like, he's applied, like, you have like a, like, a, like, a, like, oh, an actual genius competing against, like, most instructors that, like, you know, a lot of the, a lot of top -level coaches that are coaching jiu -jitsu in the U .S., grew up in, like, a favela in Brazil.

[775] And there's nothing wrong with that.

[776] They moved to America, they became successful.

[777] But, like, to compete against a guy like John, who's, like, a legitimate genius and is, you know, teaching at Columbia University in New York, and then just applies that intelligence to the sport of jihitsu.

[778] It's just not fair in most cases.

[779] Like the, the, the, the level of intellect is just, there's just no comparison.

[780] But it's also the level of intellect and this obsessive dedication to teaching people.

[781] Like the only thing he enjoys is knives.

[782] He collects knives and jihad, and martial arts.

[783] Yeah, he found one of my knives on my Instagram.

[784] He's like, I'd love that knife.

[785] Yeah.

[786] Yeah.

[787] He's, I don't want, what are you, a knife freak?

[788] Dude, he's, he, he, he gives out knives for black belts, right?

[789] Yeah, he moves.

[790] So whenever we win a big tournament.

[791] I remember when I won 2017 ADCC, he came in with a katana that's this big that was custom made by one of the best knife makers in Japan and he goes this katana is designed to cut the heads off horses in battle and if you lined up three male human beings back to back it would chop them in half of the torso with one swipe and I was like wow that's fucking awesome.

[792] So I just have like a collection of knives like sitting in my room I have to get stands for them still but whenever we like win something big he gives out knives He loves, he's a knife freak.

[793] That's interesting.

[794] So he has knife makers that he hires, commissions?

[795] He like, he knows all of the best worlds, like, all of the world's best knife makers.

[796] Like, he's, like, friends with him.

[797] He's like, text them.

[798] He's like, hey, can you do this?

[799] He, like, designs his own knives.

[800] Like, he's crazy obsessed with knives.

[801] Well, he likes pig hunting knives, those big ass pig stickers.

[802] Yeah, because he, you know, he used to hunt pigs in New Zealand, right?

[803] Oh, that was like his childhood, like, pastime.

[804] Like, he used to go out and used to hunt pigs with dogs.

[805] With dogs.

[806] Yeah.

[807] That's how they do in Hawaii, too.

[808] Yeah, that's a down -home way to do it.

[809] Yeah, they do it that way here, too.

[810] I got invited to do one of those hunts.

[811] I asked them one time, and I'm like, I'm like, John, like, what was your favorite, like, you know, TV show growing up?

[812] He goes, we didn't have TV, we hunted hogs.

[813] And I'm like, okay.

[814] And he just tells me about that.

[815] But, yeah, my friend, I had a buddy in Dallas.

[816] We went out with, like, night vision goggles.

[817] And we were, he's like, he's like, you want to go hunt some hogs night?

[818] I'm like, yeah, sure.

[819] and we went out like nighttime and we were looking for pigs.

[820] Yeah, Hennessy just invited me to do that.

[821] And Tim Kennedy's always invited me to go hunt them on planes or on helicopters.

[822] Yeah.

[823] That's crazy because they're all running through the field.

[824] You have like this giant gun.

[825] It's nuts.

[826] But I have to eat it.

[827] Like I'm not going to kill them and leave them there.

[828] But apparently they're a big problem here, right?

[829] It's a giant problem here.

[830] But they're still delicious.

[831] Yeah, they are.

[832] So if I'm going to go out and I'm going to gun down 10 hogs, You want to eat at least one of them.

[833] I'm going to at least eat one, and the other ones I'm either going to donate to the hungry.

[834] Like, there's programs called Hunters for the Hungry.

[835] You could donate it, but I just, a lot of times they just leave them there and let them rot.

[836] Because their idea is just eradication.

[837] They just want to eradicate them.

[838] It's really hard to do.

[839] Yeah.

[840] There's so many, and they're pretty smart, too.

[841] They're smart as fuck.

[842] They're smarter than dogs.

[843] Yeah.

[844] It's a weird animal, man, because, you know, they were brought over here in, like, you know, fucking 1600s or whatever.

[845] it was.

[846] Whenever the European explorers came over here, they brought over pigs and they've just run a muck.

[847] Now they're everywhere.

[848] And like Texas is one of the worst places I hear for them.

[849] They opened up one road in Texas and the day they opened up the road, like they did construction on this road, lay all the things.

[850] The day they do the open up the road, they had 40 car accidents with pigs.

[851] Oh my God.

[852] I mean, I was like talking to my buddy in Dallas and he would like, he went on like a 15 minute rant about how the pigs just destroy everything in Texas.

[853] And I was like, well, that's like kind of sensitive for you.

[854] I didn't realize how bad it was.

[855] Oh, it's bad.

[856] I think overall this, let's see, like, how much damage do wild pigs cause in Texas per year?

[857] I think it's in the billions.

[858] Yeah, that's insane.

[859] Yeah, it's definitely in the hundreds of millions of dollars, I know for sure, because I know ranchers who have said, like, on their personal property, it's over a million dollars of damage per year by hogs.

[860] Because, say if you're growing something.

[861] That's crazy to think about.

[862] Yeah.

[863] 52 million?

[864] That's it?

[865] That's the money?

[866] That's it?

[867] Why am I so exaggerating?

[868] Farrell Hogs caused more than 1 .5 billion.

[869] Oh, okay.

[870] Click on that.

[871] I mean, it's the same article.

[872] I don't know why it says it differently.

[873] Yeah, that's what I had read.

[874] I had read that it was hundreds of millions, and so it's actually 1 .5 billion each year.

[875] But the most hated animals in Texas have their charms.

[876] Oh.

[877] Well, that makes me. sense because there are a lot of farms here.

[878] What are their charms?

[879] They're delicious, baby -back ribs.

[880] It's one of the most ethical animals to hunt because you literally have to hunt them because they've destroyed ground nesting birds.

[881] They decimate populations of other wildlife.

[882] Oh, yeah, man. And they ruin people's farms.

[883] Like, if you want food, like if you want people to grow food, if you're a vegan, okay, and you love corn, guess what, fuckface?

[884] You got to kill those pigs.

[885] If you don't kill those pigs, you're not going to stop.

[886] them from eating all that corn.

[887] Yeah, that's crazy.

[888] And they're going to keep multiplying three, four times a year they breed.

[889] Yeah.

[890] So they'll, I think it's three.

[891] I think they have litters three times a year and they'll have, you know, three, four babies every time.

[892] And the next thing you know, you got a swarm of pigs, just devastating crops.

[893] Yeah, that's crazy.

[894] And you can't keep an eye on all of them.

[895] If you've driven through Texas before?

[896] I haven't.

[897] Not, not, I mean, to some degree, yeah, but not as much as I should have.

[898] It's bonkers.

[899] When you drive, you just go, this is all still Texas, right?

[900] And you just six hours later, this is still Texas.

[901] right 10 hours later we're still in Texas yeah like what the fuck and so it's just there's so much land and when you have millions and millions of these wild pigs I'm gonna guess let's guess how many millions of wild pigs just in Texas yeah I bet that's a tough one I bet there's 5 million I'm reading through this the 1 .5 billion is from the Department of Agriculture and then it does say 52 million in Texas does that mean that there's the rest of it is throughout the rest of the country Is that what that, and then there's must be somewhere there's more pigs?

[902] I mean, even if, I'm not trying to, even there's $50 million a year.

[903] Yeah.

[904] It's an insane amount of money.

[905] That's pretty minor and competitive, because this guy was telling me, I think it was 1 .4 million on his property.

[906] Maybe he's a giant ranch, though.

[907] Or maybe he's a liar.

[908] I don't know.

[909] People love to exaggerate.

[910] I certainly do.

[911] I think California is a giant problem for sure.

[912] I know they're in the San Jose now.

[913] People are getting, they're having problems in San Jose where they're eating their lawn.

[914] They're pulling up their lawn in San Jose.

[915] Like right in the middle of their fucking, there's...

[916] It says there's 2 million wild pigs, excuse me, roaming Texas.

[917] That's it?

[918] Mm -hmm.

[919] Those are 2 million pigs caused the 52 million damage and there must be 30 million pigs roaming everywhere else.

[920] I don't know.

[921] That's fairly reasonable if you think about it, right?

[922] Like each pig is causing about $25 worth of damage.

[923] That's not that bad.

[924] That's not too bad.

[925] Like, really?

[926] When you put it like that, like maybe we don't have to kill the pigs.

[927] Similar, did you see this yesterday?

[928] Grand Canyon NP seeks skilled hunters to reduce bison population inside the park.

[929] They're causing damage there too, I guess.

[930] Inside the park?

[931] Yeah, this article I just was looking at it, those bison have grown from the bison brought 115 years ago, and it says that they're causing a nuisance, and they're going to have a hunt this year.

[932] Oh, wow, they want to reduce the population by 200.

[933] I feel like they should capture them and just move them to other places.

[934] I think, you know, having a hunt on the park is a, that's a touchy subject because they've worked so hard to make that place, you know, a wildlife refuge.

[935] It's real weird, because it's not a hunt.

[936] You're just assassinating them.

[937] Yeah.

[938] Because I was there, and dude, you could just get right, like, I was real careful that we did behind a fence, and I was, like, literally ready to grab my kids and run behind a car, because when they turn, if they just decide to turn, like, if the dude has a hard on, He feels like you're cock blocking.

[939] They just fucking come charging that you and send people flying through the air.

[940] They send themselves flying to the air.

[941] This says they have moved up to, like, it says 88 of them have been moved on to tribal lands since 2019.

[942] So it's only in the last two years.

[943] Well, that's a good sign.

[944] It's a good sign that there's good growth.

[945] Those motherfuckers are so sturdy.

[946] They're so hearty.

[947] Nothing kills them other than.

[948] It's crazy how feeble a human being is compared to the other animals.

[949] Yeah, even a guy like you.

[950] I mean, we're basically, like, water balloons.

[951] Yeah.

[952] Like, this is so, their skin is so thin.

[953] And to think about the fact that the animals now, like, compared to the dinosaurs are just like...

[954] The hunter, whoever gets this lottery tag, do you have to take it out without motorized assistance, it says?

[955] You have to carry that out.

[956] Is that what that means?

[957] Yeah, you can use horses.

[958] Okay.

[959] Yeah, you want to use horses anyway.

[960] You can, there's terrain that you really want to use mules.

[961] Yeah, I'd say donkeys and mules.

[962] But mules are the best.

[963] That's a cross between a donkey and a horse, because they...

[964] They're like a perfect combination, apparently, for like these back country hunters.

[965] They love mules because you could pack a lot of shit on them.

[966] They don't give a fuck if it's hot out or if it's cold out.

[967] They don't drink as much water.

[968] They're just like super sturdy animals.

[969] And they got useless loads.

[970] Like the only way you can make them is you have to have a donkey fuck a horse.

[971] Like you can't make a muleles can't fuck other mules.

[972] They're going to have a, applicants have to meet some certifications.

[973] Self -certify a high - level of physical fitness, have a firearm safety certification and pass a mark proficiency.

[974] They should have that anyway, by the way, for hunters.

[975] They should have to pass a marksmanship proficiency.

[976] They have that in some states for getting a bow hunting license.

[977] Three to five shots inside a four -inch circle at 100 yards.

[978] That's it.

[979] That's not enough if that's good, bad.

[980] Well, you're fighting, well, you're hunting a bison.

[981] Four -inch circle's pretty good.

[982] But that's so easy at 100 yards because you're probably using a rest.

[983] Like all you have to do is just not flinch.

[984] And if your, if your rifles zeroed in, you should be able to put them all inside of like a couple inches.

[985] I mean, the only variation is you moving.

[986] Like with a really good rifle, you just squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, boom.

[987] Like if you just keep, like with a rifle rest, like a lead sled, which is most of the time they use a Caldwell or something like that you're rested you just don't flinch but uh they should have that period for hunters because it's there's a lot of places where you don't even have to have a marksmanship uh you you don't have to any kind of test but a high level of physical fitness implies that they want to make sure these people can carry out these animals so either you're going to carry it out or just be able to hoist it up like if you're quartering a bison do you know much a fucking bison and leg must weigh.

[988] Guessing a lot.

[989] Like, it's got to be hundreds of pounds if you kill that, correct?

[990] There's a photo of me when I shot a moose.

[991] It's on the cover of Carnivore magazine, I think it is.

[992] I think that's what it's called.

[993] It's just hunting?

[994] Oh, Peterson's hunting.

[995] That's right.

[996] That is not even a big moose.

[997] That was a fairly small moose, and that was...

[998] People don't realize how big moose Musar.

[999] They're big as fuck.

[1000] They're enormous.

[1001] And that thing on my shoulders is probably 150 pounds.

[1002] It was hard as fuck to carry.

[1003] I had to hoist it up and sling it over my shoulder.

[1004] It was like I was, it was like I had a small dude on my shoulders.

[1005] Now, a bison is like probably twice as big as that.

[1006] So you, I mean, I would imagine like a grown male bull bison.

[1007] It's probably a 300 pound leg.

[1008] They're fucking huge, man. You don't realize a big they are.

[1009] Can you see them?

[1010] It's just that way up to 2 ,000 pounds.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] What in the fuck?

[1013] That's so big.

[1014] But the good news is you shoot one of those, you eat that motherfucker for two years.

[1015] You know, that's two years of the best meat on planet Earth.

[1016] And you can give it to a lot of families.

[1017] Like, if you shoot one life of one bison will sustain four or five people for two years.

[1018] I mean, really.

[1019] That's a lot of meat.

[1020] It's a lot of fucking meat, especially if you use it right, like you take the bones, and you make bone marrow out of the bones, you make Asabuco out of the shanks, all the parts of people oftentimes leave behind.

[1021] I mean, you can, and then you get this fucking crazy rug because if you shoot them in the wintertime, you have the most amazing fur.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] You know, like, American Indians, they were pretty goddamn smart in what they hunted.

[1024] They didn't fuck around.

[1025] Shoot one of those bad boys.

[1026] They, I know.

[1027] And they just, they're, that's the thing about hunt, air quotes, hunting them in Yellowstone.

[1028] Like, they're so used to just being around.

[1029] people.

[1030] They just look at you.

[1031] Like, all you'd have to do is just pull out a rifle and just oh, here we go.

[1032] They're not going to run.

[1033] I mean, that was the problem when the settlers first started making their way across the plains.

[1034] Like, they didn't know what a rifle was.

[1035] So when bisoners were dropping around them, they'd be like, what the fuck is going on?

[1036] They just kept eating.

[1037] And then guys would shoot like 10, 12 bison in a time because they didn't budge.

[1038] They were just in this big pile.

[1039] Exactly.

[1040] And they're not used to being in danger.

[1041] from hundreds of yards away.

[1042] They used to, like, an Indian would have to come sneaking up on them with a bow or a spear.

[1043] They'd have to ride at them with a horse and jab them.

[1044] They'd have to do something to get close.

[1045] Pigs are different.

[1046] Like, when I went hunting pigs, like, if you were upwind from them, they smell you, they run away.

[1047] Oh, yeah.

[1048] They're hard to hunt.

[1049] Yeah, yeah.

[1050] If they're downwind and they catch your scent, they will fucking haul ass from hundreds yards away.

[1051] Same with bears.

[1052] They smell you.

[1053] They're like, fuck this.

[1054] They just haul off.

[1055] They have crazy senses of smell.

[1056] It's amazing And pigs can't see shit though If you just freeze Yeah They don't know what the fuck you are Like if you're walking up on pigs And they just look at you I'll have to do is freeze And they don't see you They have terrible vision But they can smell really good They smell really good And they hear really good Yeah we were trying to position ourselves In the right spot And we just couldn't get it And they just fucking kept moving moving moving So you guys didn't get one We didn't actually kill any though We only saw it like three or four But it was hard to Keep track of them and then whenever we would position ourselves, they would move in the opposite direction.

[1057] Yeah, you got to go to a place that's basically infested.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] There wasn't too many where we were.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] It's, you know, it really varies, and they move around a lot, too.

[1062] But have you been hunting at all before?

[1063] I just hunted the pigs the one time.

[1064] That was it.

[1065] I've never, I didn't grow up hunting or anything like that, but I'm not, I would love to do it.

[1066] I just never have.

[1067] It's a great way to get meat, man, and the meat is fantastic.

[1068] What does your diet consist of?

[1069] So I actually have a condition called gastroporesis where your stomach isn't, that doesn't push the food through down to your intestines, how it's supposed to.

[1070] So food basically just sits in my stomach for longer than it's supposed to.

[1071] And I've had this for like three years, which is why I'm just constantly nauseous and just can't eat the amount of food that I need to.

[1072] So I'm basically limited to like chicken and rice and eggs.

[1073] And like that that's all I can eat.

[1074] I can't eat any red meat because it's hard to digest.

[1075] I can't eat anything fried.

[1076] I can't eat cheese burgers.

[1077] I can't eat anything spicy.

[1078] Like there's a very select amount of foods that I'm actually able to eat.

[1079] That's crazy.

[1080] And when did this start three years ago?

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] So I had recurring staff infections and it was like I would take oral antibiotics and then I'd be on antibiotics for a week, 10 days, two weeks.

[1083] And then like four days later, staff infection.

[1084] Oral antibiotics, staff infection.

[1085] And I just had like four or five staff infections within the course of like three to four months.

[1086] And they don't know what causes gas.

[1087] They don't really know too much about it But I seem to think it was that and Ever since then it just I wake up in the morning.

[1088] I'm nauseous.

[1089] I go through the whole day extremely nauseous and then I just go to sleep nauseous So you nauseous right now?

[1090] Yeah, all the time Really?

[1091] Yeah, so all the time you're like Yeah, so like normally normally how it goes is like there's at least one hour of the day where I'm just like so Incapacitated for being nauseous that I have to just sit in the bathroom because I'm just so nauseous I just can't deal with it um so the problem is when i eat food like you can manage it with diet what you eat and how often you eat so normally what i should be doing is fasting so my stomach is empty the whole day and then i just have a meal at nighttime but i would just waste away if i was fasting so i go kind of in these waves where my stomach's okay for a few months and then it starts to and then it goes into a bad dip and when i travel a lot to like compete or to teach or whatever the case is i'm usually forced to eat at restaurants and what the restaurants do to make all the food It tastes better.

[1092] They put grease and butter and you end up, I end up like eating for four or five days at restaurants or, you know, all this shitty food.

[1093] And then I'm fucked up for like two weeks where I just can't eat anything.

[1094] So that's why my weight fluctuates, depending on how bad my stomach is.

[1095] But I have to eat every three hours, like, or else I just, I can't get enough calories to maintain my size.

[1096] So I'm basically just piling food on top of food that's already in my stomach and just not getting pushed through to my intestines.

[1097] And this is just to compete at the weight class that you're at.

[1098] Yeah, I just generally think that it's better for me to be bigger because my game isn't based on speed or explosion.

[1099] It's based on negation of movement.

[1100] So, you know, negation movement comes with just being positioned well, having sticky grips and isometric strength.

[1101] So even if I get heavier and I end up slower, it's not really going to matter for my game.

[1102] And people don't realize, like, I'm big, but I'm not crazy, like, big compared.

[1103] to like your average heavy weight um in grappling like bouchetia's like 6 3265 like guys like him like people i'm competing against are like 250 260 270 but i fought boucher at cc i think he weighed in like 263 and i was 210 so like 50 pounds is 50 pounds uh and i think that you know if i was able to get up to like a weight where i was like walking around like 260 and then cutting to 240 i think i would be much better than i am right now but the problem is i just can't get the calories because of the gastroporosis.

[1104] Wow.

[1105] So I know George St. Pierre has had some gastrointestinal issues as well.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] Is he the one who talked to you about fasting?

[1108] Because I know he's a big proponent of fasting.

[1109] So I talked to him about it, and I've just done my own research.

[1110] And I do think that fasting would help because the main thing that makes me nauseous all the time is the fact that the food is sitting in my stomach longer than it's supposed to.

[1111] So if I just went through my day with an empty stomach and then ate at nighttime, it would be a lot easier for me. But the problem is I would be like 180 pounds if I did that.

[1112] So I have to just wake up in every two to three hours, I have to just shove my face of food and try to get the calories in.

[1113] But I actually found out that I had gastroposis when I did a gastric emptying test.

[1114] And they basically take eggs and they put this radioactive dye in it.

[1115] And they make you eat eggs and toast.

[1116] And then in increments, it takes like a five -hour long test.

[1117] Every like hour or so, they put you between this machine and it takes images of the radioactive dye, and it tells you how long it takes your stomach to empty the food.

[1118] And I was retaining food like way more than a normal person should be.

[1119] So my stomach isn't contracting the right way to push this food through.

[1120] So when I go to eat my second meal, I'm already full from the first meal.

[1121] And it's always a big problem with people that have done antibiotics where there's always a rebound period where you have to take a lot of probiotics and your gut biome has to sort of re -flourish.

[1122] Well, that's what I thought.

[1123] I was like, I mean, 2018, and I was just nauseous all time, and I was like, ah, you know, it'll get better.

[1124] I'm young, it'll be fine.

[1125] And then, like, six months went by, and I, like, at first it was so bad, I, like, couldn't even train.

[1126] Like, I would just show up, and I just, I was, like, couldn't do anything.

[1127] And, uh, and I got an endoscopy, and that was fine.

[1128] And the doctor's pretty much just like, you know, you're fine.

[1129] Here's some nausea medicine.

[1130] So he gave me zoephran.

[1131] And, uh, I never really thought much of it after that.

[1132] I tried some probiotics, those didn't work.

[1133] I tried some yogurts and whatever one tells you to do.

[1134] Those didn't work.

[1135] And then I pretty much just accepted it because John used to teach privates to a guy who was regarded as one of the top three gastro doctors, either in America or in the world.

[1136] And he's like, he told him, like, once the food goes in your mouth and down your throat, we basically have no idea what's going on.

[1137] We just basically take our best guess and we do some trial in our medications.

[1138] So I'm like, I'm not going to waste my time at doctors.

[1139] Hopefully it just gets better.

[1140] So I basically just took the Zophran, the nausea medication, whenever I could, whenever it was unbearable to get it back to manageable.

[1141] And then I just did it.

[1142] I just managed it like that.

[1143] But then recently, before the Roberto Jimenez match, where I called the Mounted Arm Bar, it got so bad to where two days before I was going to fly to compete, like four days before the competition.

[1144] I hadn't, I wasn't able to eat in like five days.

[1145] I could hardly eat.

[1146] anything how to go to the hospital and get an IV because I just couldn't eat any food um so I went to the hospital I got the IV I competed in the match and then I'm just like you know what I can't I can't live like this I got to find something that I can I can do to manage this better so I went back to New York I found the doctor a buddy of mine who actually cared about helping me and wasn't just like yeah you know you're fine and push me through he was like you know we're going to find the we're going to find the cause of this so I went to start going to a few different doctors they did a few different tests for H. Pallori and then they did the uh the gastric emptying test and they were like yeah you have gastroporesis so now they're just like you know try these they have like some few medicines that they try and you try one for a few weeks it doesn't work you try the next one it doesn't work you try the next one um so I've been on this medicine now for like four weeks and it's helping a little bit takes the edge off but it could just be a coincidence because I could just be on that kind of up cycle that my stomach's doing okay right now but in a few weeks may be bad again so we'll see how it goes Has anyone recommended, like, taking a break off of competing, like, a month or so, where you just fast and try to eat at night and rebalance it?

[1147] I actually, I tried, well, I didn't compete in, like, the whole first, almost the whole year of 2018, because I just couldn't even train Jiu -Ti.

[1148] I was just so terrible.

[1149] Now, I haven't tried fasting for a month, but I've tried fasting for a week where I just, my stomach was so bad that I just couldn't eat.

[1150] and it doesn't it doesn't seem to do much like I feel less nauseous because my stomach's empty but then the second I start to eat again it just I just get nauseous again so it's something that I've been dealing with for the last three years that's incredibly infuriating but you just do what you gotta do because nobody cares that your stomach's hurt and there's no there's no like there's no cure to it they just have treatments that they use that if if it works great if it doesn't then you're kind of fucked have you researched people that have had your same situation that have gotten through it and now they can eat normally?

[1151] Yeah, so I've done some research and just went on some forums and pretty much what everyone says is the same thing as me. Like, I can't eat at restaurants.

[1152] I can't have anything, you know, fried or greasy.

[1153] I can't have any red meat.

[1154] All the fun stuff.

[1155] Yeah, all the stuff that you want to eat.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] I can't eat.

[1158] And then some people have some different, some different experiences with different medicines.

[1159] They have like three or four things that they try.

[1160] And some people say that, you know, this one worked and this one didn't or that one worked and this one did it.

[1161] And it basically varies person to person on what helps them.

[1162] Fuck.

[1163] So, yeah, it's a, it's, the hardest thing for me is just knowing that I believe that I would be better if I was heavier.

[1164] I don't, I don't necessarily think that I need to be 240, 250 pounds to beat the best guys.

[1165] But my, my goal at this point isn't focused around beating the best guys.

[1166] If I was just concerned with how do I beat the next best guy, I would have, I would have had to have done half the work that I've done to get to the point to just be better than the number one guy in the world.

[1167] But my goal now is focused around how can I be the absolute best athlete than I can by the time I hit my prime.

[1168] And I just believe that being a 250 -pound Gordon would be better than being a 220 -pound Gordon.

[1169] And having to deal with the fact that I may never reach my full athletic.

[1170] potential because of the stomach problem is what's like the most frustrating for me and that the stomach problem was likely caused by antibiotics yeah that's when i first started having problems i just had recurring staff infections and it was just oral antibiotics oral antibiotics every single time and uh ever since then i've just been fucked up yeah i've had staff a couple of times and when i took the antibiotics i was amazed at how much they wreck your endurance oh yeah like especially bactrum i took backram a few that but like you you go to like lift lift weights or do jiu -jitsu like your first set on your first exercise like you're a hundred percent exhausted yeah um and like i i'm like okay i have staff i can't do jihitsu but at least i can lift weights and it's like no you can't like you go into lift weights and you're like about to have a heart attack after your first five reps yeah it's crazy to think that all that is what's going on in your gut yeah yeah the gut biome controls so much of the body and the body really is some sort of weird ecosystem.

[1171] It's like if one thing is fucked up, it just throws everything off.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] I know you got into kombucha.

[1174] Did that help at all?

[1175] I did.

[1176] I tried kombucha for a little bit, and it seemed to help.

[1177] I actually, I had like two or three months where my stomach was okay.

[1178] It was like 80 to 90 % better.

[1179] And I could eat food, and I actually went from like 220 to like I got up to like 240, 245.

[1180] Like if I can eat food, I get big quickly.

[1181] I just can't eat food.

[1182] but I tried it for a few months and it seemed to be okay and then I started to get bad again.

[1183] I think it was probably just a coincidence because when my stomach started to get better, it was when the pandemic hit and I wasn't traveling to compete.

[1184] I wasn't traveling to teach seminars or film instructional.

[1185] So I was on a routine where I was eating clean food like just chicken and rice, plain chicken and rice and eggs at home for like two months straight and my stomach started to get okay.

[1186] What really messes me up is when I have to travel and eat like shitty foods that's not that's not home cooked So I think that the kombucha helped, but it was just more of a coincidence that I was eating the food that I needed to be eating for a longer amount of time So do you still do the kombucha or do you stop?

[1187] No, I still drink the kombucha I feel like it helps me I feel like the main issue I have is that I get full fast and I feel like the food's sitting right here and I feel like I need to burp But I can't to like make room for more food So the kombucha or anything really carbonated helps me like the bubbles like help me that I just And it helps me burp and I can make room for more food.

[1188] Have you thought about traveling with like someone who can cook for you like wherever you go?

[1189] I could, but the problem is whenever I go to travel, I'm always, I'm always putting hotels where I don't have kitchens.

[1190] That's that's the problem.

[1191] Like if you want to, you know, get a kitchen in a hotel room, you have to get like some crazy sweet that like costs a shit ton of money.

[1192] What about an Airbnb or something?

[1193] I could get Airbnb's that would make sense.

[1194] I have to maybe talk to flow when they buck my next hotel if they can air, air, B and B &B me something.

[1195] But that's like the main thing is getting off the routine and eating like shitty foods from like IHOP or like restaurants and stuff.

[1196] Because I feel like most, there's a lot of Airbnbs in most cities.

[1197] You know, you can get a probably pretty decent house.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] And bring everybody in there and it might be better anyway because you could, you know, bring some portable mats, lay them out in a living room and, you know, maybe go over positions and stuff in your actual house.

[1200] Everybody sleeps in the same house instead of being in a bunch of different hotel rooms and you could cook.

[1201] Yeah, that might make a lot more sense.

[1202] Like, even like yesterday, I taught a seminar, and then I finished, I did an interview, and there was only, like, one place open, and I got, like, the healthiest thing I could, I got, like, eggs on toast, and it shows up, and it's just, like, loaded with butter, and it's, like, soaking wet with grease, and I'm like, if I don't eat this, I'm not going to be able to go to sleep because I'm so hungry.

[1203] But if I eat it, I'm going to be fucked up.

[1204] so I eat it and I was you know you're okay you eat it a half hour later you're fine I wake up this morning I'm like yep my stomach's not happy so like we get here I'm like super nauseous like halfway through the podcast I'm still super nauseous and now it's like just starting to wear off to like where it's I'm normal again and I can like talk and not have to worry about hungry again I'm hungry again and then when I eat I get nauseous so it's just like it's just so frustrating fuck and so you was it a series of like trial and errors that led you to chicken and rice yeah so like what I would find is like I would be like on an up cycle and my diet used to be like first of all I used to be able to eat an incredible amount of food like you know five six Big Macs at the same time like I used to be able to eat more than most people but it used to be just terrible like I used to just eat fast foods all the time so I love like a nice McDonald's cheeseburger so my stomach would like start to get better and I'm like you know what I've been feeling good these last few weeks let me try to have McDonald's and then I'd eat McDonald's and I'd just be fucked up like next week and a half.

[1205] And, you know, then I kind of realize that anything that's really hard to digest or really processed is, is not good for me. And I would usually find that with eggs or with chicken and rice, things that digest easily.

[1206] That's relatively easy for me to handle.

[1207] I still can never eat as much as I used to.

[1208] So I have to eat just in smaller increments.

[1209] So I have like, you know, six ounces of chicken and rice here.

[1210] And then, you know, two hours later I have a little bit more.

[1211] And then two hours later, I have a little bit more.

[1212] Sometimes it's really bad.

[1213] I, like, can't even finish a meal.

[1214] I have to, like, eat a few folds, and then 20 minutes later, I go to eat a few more.

[1215] Then 20 minutes later, I go to eat a few more.

[1216] It takes, like, three hours to eat a meal.

[1217] Wow.

[1218] That's crazy.

[1219] What about salads, vegetables?

[1220] Vegetables are usually okay.

[1221] Yeah?

[1222] Vegetables, yeah.

[1223] They're not...

[1224] I usually just mix them up, or not cooks my food.

[1225] She usually just mixes them up and chops them up into little pieces with the chicken and rice, and I kind of mix it in, and it's usually not bad.

[1226] Have you tried, like, hemp protein?

[1227] Have you ever done that?

[1228] I haven't, no. That might be a good move, because...

[1229] it's easy to digest.

[1230] I've found it the best for me in terms of like drinkable protein shakes.

[1231] Hemp protein is the most digestible.

[1232] Real easy.

[1233] It's the one that doesn't give me gas.

[1234] Like whenever I like way protein, but every time I do, like I feel sorry for anybody who's in the car with me. Yeah.

[1235] So I'm going to light that thing on fire.

[1236] It's just your body just goes, what is this?

[1237] Like how did you get all this stuff in one fucking drink?

[1238] Yeah, I know I know what I mean?

[1239] It's like it's not in a normal form.

[1240] Like if you eat a piece of meat or if you eat piece of chicken, like your body's going, oh, I know what this is.

[1241] You drink a thick -ass way protein shake.

[1242] Your body's like, what is happening here?

[1243] Yeah, it's like you don't put enough, you don't put enough water in it.

[1244] It's like mud.

[1245] Right, right, right.

[1246] You put like a little bit too much and you're like eating yogurt basically.

[1247] Yeah, that's how I like it too.

[1248] I like it thick.

[1249] But hemp to me is the easiest one of all those.

[1250] P -protein's pretty good, too.

[1251] That's pretty easy to digest.

[1252] But hemp protein seems to be the one that gives me the least problems.

[1253] and it's one of the only ones that I could eat and then legitimately train an hour later because a lot of times if I eat like a good meal I can pull it off an hour later but you know I still feel it.

[1254] You're not happy about it.

[1255] Right, I still feel it moving around in there and I'm like asshole, you should have waited.

[1256] And that's one of the biggest things for me too.

[1257] It's like it takes me so long to digest a meal.

[1258] So I have to try to eat every couple of hours but you have two training sessions a day in a lifting session.

[1259] So you can't eat right before them because then you're nauseous and you haven't digested it and it takes you longer to digest the food So you're trying to schedule your, you're trying to schedule a day, your day around your nausea and what you can eat and build it into your training sessions.

[1260] Like if I just had to eat food all day, it's easy.

[1261] But you can't, I can't eat a full meal.

[1262] Like, Nikki Rod could eat like two steaks and like two like 24 round steaks.

[1263] And then next thing you know, five minutes later, he's like wrestling as hard as he can.

[1264] Like I can't do that.

[1265] Like if I have like a lollipop and I have to train five minutes later, I'm like, oh, I just can't do this.

[1266] Wow.

[1267] So it's like trying to manage and trying to.

[1268] to fit as much as many calories I can into a day and having to train three times a day is difficult.

[1269] What about fruit?

[1270] Fruit is usually okay.

[1271] I can do fruit.

[1272] I can do fruits and vegetables.

[1273] The main things I have to stay away from is like red meat, steaks, cheeseburgers, anything greasy or fried.

[1274] Like fried foods are the worst for me. Anything fried just fucked me up for like.

[1275] So what do you eat like pre -training?

[1276] Let's say if you're gonna train in an hour and a half?

[1277] So normally we train in the morning so I'll wake up and I'll have a light breakfast like three or four eggs and like two pieces of toast.

[1278] That's usually just plain scrambled eggs and toast.

[1279] And then between the MMA and the Jiu -Jitsu, I'll have like maybe a protein shake and like a granola ball or something.

[1280] Or I'll have like a little thing of chicken and rice, something that's easy to digest.

[1281] And then that holds me over.

[1282] And then I focus on most of my eating after the jih Tzu session where I have the rest of the night to eat and I try to stuff my face from then until.

[1283] I go to sleep.

[1284] That's crazy.

[1285] I'm hoping, this is my hope, that someone's going to listen to this, that has a solution.

[1286] And there's someone out there that just you haven't been in contact with.

[1287] And they're going to reach out to you and they go, I think you're going to fix this.

[1288] Yeah, I've been posting and stuff on my Instagram and people have been helping.

[1289] But obviously, this is a much larger platform.

[1290] The medicine that I have now, it's like four weeks in and it seems to be taking the edge off a little bit.

[1291] Whenever I eat terrible food, it still just, it fucks me up.

[1292] Does the medicine fuck with you at all?

[1293] Does it do anything bad?

[1294] No, it's actually, um, It's a medicine that originally they used, they tested as an antidepressant, like Viagra was supposed to be for blood pressure medicine, but then they just found that it was better for a dick pill.

[1295] So they used this, they started testing it for antidepressants.

[1296] So I still think they use it for antidepressants, but they also use it in like cancer and age patients who can't eat.

[1297] They're so nauseous.

[1298] They use it, it's very good at decreasing nausea and increasing appetite.

[1299] So one of the side effects is you want to eat more and you gain weight.

[1300] What about weed?

[1301] Weed is actually an interesting thing.

[1302] Everyone says, smoke some weed and it'll relax you and you'll be able to eat more.

[1303] It's actually the exact opposite for me. The second I start to get high, I just instantly get twice as nauseous.

[1304] I don't know what it is.

[1305] But like the second either I eat an edible or I try to smoke something, I haven't smoked in like three years because every time I would get high, I would just instantly be twice as nauseous.

[1306] Crazy.

[1307] What a weird predicament.

[1308] yeah so somebody whoever you are out there master of the gastral intestinal tract reach out to gordon ryan it's fix this i mean it's it's frustrating but at the end of the day no one cares you know what problems you have so you just work through it and manage it but it's definitely something that you know it's been three years now and i'm just i'm managing it pretty well i can i can kind of you know eat my food around i can plan my meals and plan my day around it but it's still something that you have to deal with every day and it's it's annoying well it's just one more credit to you that you were able to reach these insane heights in competition while being so compromised.

[1309] I mean, everyone has their problems, but this is definitely something that's day to day is very, very frustrating to deal with it.

[1310] So you're on the same training regiment as Gary then.

[1311] So you're doing MMA training in the morning and then you're doing jujitsu right afterwards.

[1312] Yeah, and then I lift weights at night.

[1313] So this thing with one FC, like what is, do they have you set up for grappling matches?

[1314] So the way my contract works is I'm exclusive for MMA and non -exclusive for grappling.

[1315] So if I want to fight MMA, I can't fight in any other organization.

[1316] And I'm not obligated to fight MMA in my contract.

[1317] My contract is just for grappling matches.

[1318] But if I choose to fight MMA, it has to be with one.

[1319] But I'm not obligated to go out and do any MMA fights.

[1320] So right now my plan is, my focus is the ADCC Super Fight 2022, and then I I want to use the one -fc deal to rebrand myself as a fence wrestler.

[1321] Right now I'm the best open -map grappler, but I want to be able to put experienced MMA guys on the fence, put them down, and finish them on the fence.

[1322] Now, one -fc, with its resources, if they had exclusive grappling matches, maybe they could find you competition.

[1323] Yeah, so I think what they want to do, because they have, they don't just have MMA.

[1324] They have every martial art where they have the belts in each martial art. What I think what their ultimate goal is, is they want to make a jiu -jitsu belt, and they want to have divisions for jihitsu, like an M .M .A. Like, you win the title, you win a belt.

[1325] So it's going to be interesting to see what their approach is going to be, because what I think they thought was going to happen was, you know, oh, we'll just sign them and we'll get them to fight guys like Bouchetia, or guys like Andrei Gauv or, you know, these top -level jih Tizu guys.

[1326] But then I think that what they're going to realize pretty soon is that it's going to be incredibly hard to get a Jitsu guy to fight me and even harder to get a guy to fly to Singapore and, you know, fly across the world to compete against me because the guys just won't compete against me. And now it's on TV.

[1327] Now they're doing it on TNT, so regular people in America are going to get it as well.

[1328] Are going to watch it.

[1329] But it's going to be interesting now because they're going to start to realize that the Jitsu guys just won't fight me. And then who else am I going to compete against?

[1330] I'm going to do a grappling match against an MMA fighter, you know, especially in these Asian countries, most people are known for their striking.

[1331] Like there's not, grappling isn't at the level in most of these Asian countries that it is, you know, in the U .S. So what are they going to do?

[1332] Put me against an Asian MMA fighter in a grappling match.

[1333] It's going to be, it's going to be tough to find someone who is really competitive in a grappling match in a cage, you know, with me for them because the Jute together.

[1334] guys just won't do it.

[1335] Well, I know that some people have priced themselves out.

[1336] They've said, yeah, I'll, I'll fight with you, but I want a million dollars.

[1337] Yeah, that's Andre.

[1338] So the funny thing about that is I'm pretty sure there's an interview of Andre saying, I would fight my grandmother for $40 ,000.

[1339] And then he's just like, no, I won't fight Gordon for less than a million, which is amazing because every one of his ADCC fights prior to this, it's, the ADCC purse is 10 ,000 to lose, 40 ,000 to win.

[1340] So it's like you're looking for what a, a, you're looking for what a however many X10 increase to go from $40 ,000 to a million dollars like it's just like it's not like 40 ,000 to 100 ,000 like $40 ,000 to a million dollars.

[1341] It's like the whole the whole ADCC event isn't even going to generate a million dollars in revenue.

[1342] How did this get started, this beef between the two of you guys?

[1343] Because for people who don't know, there was an event here a few weeks ago and he came up to you and what did he say to you?

[1344] So the whole thing originally started when, you know, I was petitioning for matches against the best level, against the top level guys in, like, 2016 when I first got my black belt.

[1345] And, you know, I was like, I want to compete against Andre or something along those lines.

[1346] And his wife was like, well, win the ADCC Absolute.

[1347] And then you'll have your chance to compete against Andre.

[1348] So, you know, I go in, I lose the Absolute, uh, 2017 to Felipe Penna. And then I go out and I win double gold and I win the absolute in 2019.

[1349] So now Andre had originally said that he was retiring after his fight with Felipe Pena for 2019 -80 -CC.

[1350] But then I win the absolute, so it kind of sparked everyone's interest.

[1351] Everyone wants to see this match now.

[1352] So then I didn't talk shit to Andre.

[1353] I didn't do anything.

[1354] I was like super nice after.

[1355] I was like, listen, if Andre wants to compete against me, I'd be more than happy to compete against him.

[1356] He's a legend.

[1357] He's done a lot for the sport.

[1358] but if Andre chooses to retire like he said he was going to then that's fine with me too he said he was going to retire and it's not like he's ducking the match and now he's just going to suddenly retire after he wins he said before the match this is my last match I'm retiring and then he like kind of passive aggressively would start posting like videos of him winning ADCC with captions like I'm the real king or just like passive aggressively nudging me so I'm like okay like you know we can start to do this so then we started going to going back and forth online and, you know, he, there must have been a turning point where he started taking what I was saying personally because, you know, I knew that in the beginning he knew it was just kind of to build the fight and to hype the fight, but then I think it really started to get to him.

[1359] So after the last match, or Craig submitted his student Ronaldo, we went up to shake their hands in the corner after and John Chuck Andre's hand and I went to go shake their hands and all the wooden shake my hand Andre flipped me off so I was like okay now this is fine I just started laughing and I walked it off and then we go backstage and I go to start I go to walk to do an interview and Andre's waiting for me like past the curtains and the backstage area and I don't think he realized the camera was there but I saw the camera was there and I was like this is kind of Jamie go find the video because there's a video of this I was like this is kind of out of character for Andre to be like talking shit to me when nobody's around because nobody was there and it was just like one obscure camera way in the back and he started calling me a bitch and a pussy and I just I just laughed I was like you know what this is this is what it is and I think what he was he was going to come up and punk me in person and they look Gordon's a pussy he only talks shit online so he called me a bitch and a pussy there it is give me some volume do it from the beginning he's like why you're running why you're running he's like why you're running he's and I turned around, he pushes me, and I was like, okay, well, we're going to fight.

[1360] Let's start it off with the smack.

[1361] So you smacked him in the face twice.

[1362] He pushed you, he called you a pussy, he pushed you, you smacked him in the face twice, and then it's weird, he's kind of just following you.

[1363] Yeah, so I was going to do my interview, so I was like, I was like, listen.

[1364] Look at this person who grabbed the camera?

[1365] She bolted over there.

[1366] He looks like he's limping.

[1367] You notice that?

[1368] I think he was just really shook from the smack.

[1369] And the only person who stock grew more than mine was John Bannerhurst.

[1370] This fucking guy just walked him like a stone culled killer.

[1371] Look at him.

[1372] It's so confusing, because now he's saying, I want to talk to you like a man. Keep talking.

[1373] Why do you want to do that?

[1374] Why do you want to do that?

[1375] Keep talking.

[1376] Because you always talk shit.

[1377] You always talk shit.

[1378] You should show respect after he called you a pussy, and then you smacked him.

[1379] I think he was rattled, right?

[1380] He didn't expect you to just haul off and smack him.

[1381] in the face and then do it again.

[1382] I mean, reality hits quick.

[1383] Like, if you walk up to someone, call him a pussy, and push them.

[1384] You should be ready to go.

[1385] That's, like, pretty much as far as you can go before you get into a fight.

[1386] So I'm like, okay, there's going to be a fight.

[1387] Let me start it off with a smack.

[1388] And then I hit him, and I realized that he wasn't retaliating.

[1389] And I was like, okay, this guy doesn't want to fight.

[1390] So then I went to go walk away a second time, and he started following me. And I was like, okay, maybe he changed his mind once to fight again.

[1391] And so I smacked him again, and he just backed up, and I just like, okay, he clearly doesn't want to fight.

[1392] So I'm just going to walk away, go do my interview, and then he kept walking towards me. And then he started to get more bold when everyone was around.

[1393] So I was like, well, we can fight right now.

[1394] Like, we can, doesn't make a difference to me. And then he just, it clearly wasn't interested in fighting.

[1395] And I think what he thought was going to happen, because the autos guys are always like, you know, Gordon always always talk shit online, but then he's nice in person.

[1396] But sure, I am.

[1397] You know, but I'm not like a bitch Like if you walk up to me And you start pushing me Like we're gonna get into a fight Like I You're talking shit online Because it's part of your strategy For marketing yourself Yeah I mean I want to I want to make money I want to I want to get paid as much as I can I want the other guys to get paid As much as they can And what I do when I talk shit I really don't even talk shit I just I just talk about facts Like I just I post things That are just They're just statistics like when I talk shit about Dylan and I say like hey like this guy's 18 and 16 is a black belt like that's not talking shit that's just saying how terrible his record is black belt like I just people get upset because I talk about the numbers that I have and the numbers that these guys have and nobody wants to hear that and they just get upset about it so you know most of what I do unless someone like attacks me personally is just talking about like how everybody sucks and I'm the best you hit him with your right hand that's the hand that's been busted a bunch of times too right Yeah, so this one, I broke this one three times.

[1398] The most recent one was a week before ADCC.

[1399] I had a crazy, so this ADCC was like the worst for me because I'm seven months off the LCL surgery.

[1400] I had food poisoning the day before, so I was like all fucked up.

[1401] And a week before the tournament, I lived in New York, and I had Super 73s, a little electric bikes, and I used to ride those to training.

[1402] and it was like late September so it was getting kind of cold and I'm like this is the last time I'm going to use these bikes before I put them away for the winter and I was going to take them to the gym back home to the shop to get serviced and then I was going to not use them that was like the last time the last day of the year I was going to use them coincidentally on the way there Nat's bike gets a flat tire and I'm like okay let's take it to the bike shop so I'm carrying this thing and my lower back is getting really sore so it's like four blocks away I have to carry this bike to the shop so I'm like fuck this I'm like let me just put it on my shoulders so I picked the bike up by the handlebars and by the back the back railing and I got to put it on my on my back and I didn't realize that it was still on so as I went to throw it on my back my arm hit the throttle and it sucked my hand in between the fender and the tire and just like spun up like 25 miles an hour on my hand and it just destroyed my hand was like swollen like a baseball met for the tournament and I tore some ligaments in my wrist I actually you can still see it's swollen and then I broke one of the bones and I tore a few ligaments I shut up like all bandage for ADCC and everyone's like what the fuck happened I'm like I don't want to talk about it it was a bike accident so that's what did it to your hand so you've broken it three times three times since then no no no not since then total so two times before that and then that fuck so do you have full use of it yeah the only time I feel like it's not as strong as my left wrist as when I do workouts where I have like a barbell or any kind of bar and I have weight on it and I have to go do curls like this.

[1403] I feel like it's not as strong by holding weight like this.

[1404] But grappling, it's fine.

[1405] Day to day, it's fine and it feels just as strong as I need it to be to do anything in Jiu -Jitsu.

[1406] But it must be hard to get gloves on?

[1407] Gloves and watches.

[1408] Yeah, I just slide over the big scar tissue.

[1409] Wow.

[1410] And what are the doctor saying about it?

[1411] It's fine now.

[1412] I got an x -ray and actually I didn't even get a checked out before ADCC because it's just like I'm just going to show up and hope for the best but I got an x -ray and an MRI and they're like you know it's fine it's it's all healed now so it's just insane that you competed with a broken hand I mean the worst part was I I heard it and then I didn't really train until ADCC so it was kind of resting but then I had to compete at ADCC I had eight matches and then a week after that I had to compete against Paul Harris so I got fucked up from competing at ADCC and I had to try to compete against Paul Horace the week after that and then after that it got like really bad and I took like a few months off and it healed other than that and the LCL have you had any other like significant injuries from jujitsu I had just small things I've had a I've always had like some neck problems um if my neck it's like snapped hard in the wrong way it gets sore for a few a few days or a few weeks depending on how bad it is you ever use the iron neck I haven't used iron neck really I haven't oh my God I'm getting one for you okay right away I'll definitely that's Those in saunas I'll definitely look into.

[1413] I just gave one to Gabe Tuttle from 10th Planet.

[1414] I fucking love that goddamn thing.

[1415] Yeah.

[1416] It's the, for grappling, there's no better exercise for your neck.

[1417] You've seen it, right?

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] I'll definitely, I'll definitely try that.

[1420] But it's, it's okay.

[1421] Most of the time it hurts, like, it hurts to some degree, pretty much just walking around day to day.

[1422] You want to see Braleo esteema's neck?

[1423] This is what I want to avoid with you.

[1424] And this is what I sent to Gabe as well.

[1425] Because he broke his neck.

[1426] Brailleo has two fake discs in his neck and Al Jermaine Sterling now has a fake disc in his neck and Chris Wydenman has a fake disc in his neck too and I believe Rick Storia has a couple of them as well so he had Braalio's had two discs replaced Yeah it's not it's not quite that bad yet But it's definitely it's getting there It's a fucking number one thing for grapplers Is the neck in the back It's like those are the ones that when you fuck them up You can't really fix them the way they can fix like an LCL And it's not it's not even Most of the time it's wrestling It's like when I'm wrestling and guys are heavy in the head, that's what fatigues it.

[1427] And other than that, I just had a grade 2 MCL tear when I was like 16.

[1428] But I've been pretty lucky as far as catastrophic injuries go.

[1429] Just the one LCL was the big one.

[1430] What was that weird match that you had with Pat Downey?

[1431] So I had a...

[1432] You had like a dual match, like one jujitsu...

[1433] So what I proposed was to do an ADCC rule -style takedown match.

[1434] because an ADCC style rule's takedown match is wrestling, but it's not wrestling in a traditional sense.

[1435] There's submissions involved and the scoring for ADCC in order to score points by either taking someone down or taking their back is completely different than any kind of wrestling scoring.

[1436] So yes, he has the advantage in the standing position you can take me down, but the scrimmage to the first point actually starts when you hit the ground.

[1437] So what I proposed was we do an ADCC takedown match where you have an advantage that you you're a better wrestler, but I have an advantage to that I know I know what the rules are, I know how to score under an ADCC.

[1438] We should explain to people, ADCC's Abu Dhabi Combat Club, and the way they have it set up is for the first, how many minutes you don't score any points?

[1439] So for the regular matches, it's five and five.

[1440] It's five minutes, no points, and then five minutes' points.

[1441] And unfortunately, the idea behind that was they were going to encourage people to go after submissions.

[1442] Yes.

[1443] But unfortunately, what happens is people stall for five minutes, and then the last five minutes to try to score points.

[1444] Yes.

[1445] Yeah.

[1446] So in some cases.

[1447] In some cases, yes.

[1448] And then you have the finals matches, which are 10 minutes, no points, 10 minutes with points, and then two possible 10 minute overtime.

[1449] So you have possible 40 minutes of wrestling in the finals of ADCC.

[1450] So the pace is much different, the stanch is much different, and the criteria for scoring is vastly different.

[1451] And he's like, no, I don't want to do that.

[1452] I just want to do one match, which is no time limit, submission only, jiu -jitsu, and one match, which is a freestyle wrestling match.

[1453] And I'm like, well, we can do that, but, I mean, it's not going to be, like, exciting because you're clearly going to beat me in the wrestling match, and I'm clearly going to be Jinn Jitsu match.

[1454] So I was like, how can I make this more exciting?

[1455] So my goal was to...

[1456] Explain who Pat Downey is to.

[1457] So Pat Downey is an Olympic -level guy from the USA.

[1458] He's a wrestler, and he's just like, he's just a guy from the USA, who he just competed at the Olympic trials.

[1459] He lost.

[1460] But he's, like, a legitimate guy who's beaten legitimate guys, and he's winning.

[1461] and he's operating at a high level in wrestling.

[1462] And he wants to start fighting MMA and he wants to start, you know, dabbling in jih Tzu, but he's known for his wrestling and he's primarily a wrestler.

[1463] So he's like, I want to do one wrestling match and one jih Tzu match.

[1464] And I'm like, okay, we can do that.

[1465] So I didn't want to just go out and submit him because I wouldn't prove anything.

[1466] What I wanted to prove was that under an ADCC rule set, I would be able to out, what we call it is scrimmage wrestling, where you scrimmage for the first point, whoever gets the first point or submission wins.

[1467] What I wanted to prove was that he wouldn't be able to score on me under an ADCC rule set and that I would eventually tire him out and I would be able to score on him and take him down multiple times.

[1468] And we just got to the tipping point of when he was starting to get exhausted somewhere about 20 minutes in and I took him down twice and then I locked in a power half Nelson, which isn't a submission.

[1469] It's very common in wrestling.

[1470] And he tapped to the power half.

[1471] and I just fucking lost my mind because I was like just on the cusp of like starting to take him down and embarrass him and he just basically gave up and quit in the middle of the match so I was like just furious about that because I went out to prove something and I wasn't able to because he just stopped in the middle of the match and then we did a freestyle wrestling match and he like tecked me with uh he like rolled me through like a bunch of times and he teched me in like 20 seconds because and tech means 11 points in a row yeah he just 11 to zero yeah he scored 11 points in like 20 seconds because he got behind me, took me down, and then I didn't belly out.

[1472] I was like just trying to like do what I would do in Jitsu would just get on top.

[1473] So he's just rolling me through, rolling me through, rolling me through.

[1474] And I'm like, oh, he's scoring this whole time.

[1475] And then before you know it, the match is over.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] So he did one freestyle match and one Jitsu submission only match.

[1478] And, you know, obviously he won the wrestling and I won the I won the Jitsu match.

[1479] But I didn't win the Jitsu match how I wanted to do.

[1480] I wanted to take him down a bunch of times and then submit him.

[1481] Yeah.

[1482] Yeah, I watched that.

[1483] It was weird.

[1484] Like, you know, the way he was...

[1485] What would have been more...

[1486] What would have made more sense is a match a rule set like I had with Bow Nickel, where it was, you could do jiu -jitsu, but you weren't allowed to pull guard.

[1487] So I had to wrestle him for the...

[1488] I had to wrestle him until one of us got a take -down, and I wasn't allowed to sit to guard, and I wasn't allowed to do leg locks.

[1489] So you've got a little bit of jih Tzu, you've got a little bit of wrestling, where he has the advantage standing, and I have the advantage on the ground.

[1490] Yeah, that is definitely more interesting.

[1491] maybe with something like one FC having you over there, they could entice some elite grapplers in other disciplines like wrestling or maybe judo or something like that.

[1492] Yeah, I mean, that's definitely an option.

[1493] And I think that, you know, wrestlers are always out to prove that wrestling is the best.

[1494] But I do think there's something to be said for, you know, like competing under an ADCC rules.

[1495] Because if you think about it, if you're ultimately looking to transition to MMA, the scoring criteria for ADCC is the most like grappling in MMA.

[1496] If you take someone down in a normal jihitsu match, there's pretty much an unspoken rule where the bottom guy plays guard and the top guy tries to pass.

[1497] But in MMA, if a guy gets taken down, what does he try to do?

[1498] He tries to stand up.

[1499] So then your whole thing is you have to hold them down to actually score the takedown or if he turns his back, you have to take his back.

[1500] It's the same thing in ADCC.

[1501] You have to get held down for three seconds.

[1502] So what everyone does, in ADCC is they don't try to, they don't just sit and accept the takedown.

[1503] They try to pop back up to their feet.

[1504] So it's very like MMA.

[1505] There's just not punches, but there's submissions.

[1506] And guys are trying to heist up and get away from you.

[1507] You have to be able to hold them down or take their back.

[1508] So I mean, if you're looking to prepare for an MMA career, scrimmage wrestling under ADCC rules makes a lot of sense because it's very similar to what you do in MMA.

[1509] And there are a lot of guys that are considering transitioning from wrestling into MMA because it's really one of the only viable.

[1510] professional outlets.

[1511] Like I know flow grappling is put on some professional matches for grapplers and I know Jordan Burroughs is making a living just doing grappling competitions but it's not like MMA.

[1512] It's not as prevalent.

[1513] Yeah, of course.

[1514] Yeah.

[1515] And it's very different.

[1516] Like in freestyle wrestling if you gramby and expose your back you get scored on like in MMA you can gramby, you can do all these things, you can do submissions.

[1517] So, you know, wrestling under an ADCC rule set, like to have a wrestler who practices that kind of MMA wrestling, it's much different than just a traditional, you know, freestyle or collegiate wrestling.

[1518] Yeah.

[1519] What about GEE competition?

[1520] I know that you were doing something the other day where you were talking about a GEE sponsorship and you were asking if somebody was willing to do something with you.

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] Are you thinking about competing in the G?

[1523] I'm not going to compete in the GEE, but I'm going to teach in the Gie, and I just basically wanted to sponsor to to sponsor me to where their geese during what I'm teaching.

[1524] For me, I'm not opposed to competing in the ghee, but the thing about the ye is it's just not as fun for me to train in the ghee as it is to train no -gey.

[1525] I find it's much more enjoyable for me to train no -gey than it is in the geese.

[1526] So I feel like if I don't enjoy doing it, why am I going to do it in the first place?

[1527] Like I'm already so good no -gee.

[1528] I feel like I'm the best in the world, debatably the best ever.

[1529] why would I take time away from that legacy to pursue something that I'm not even really particularly interested in?

[1530] And honestly, that's dying in America.

[1531] Like in the next 10 years, the ghee is pretty much going to be phased out as far as competitions in America.

[1532] It's going to be like a novelty where they have like some competitions here and there.

[1533] But no ghee, as far as numbers support, no ghee is the way of the future as far as, you know, grappling, professional grappling goes.

[1534] Well, it translates to MMA.

[1535] Everybody understands the grappling in MMA.

[1536] The same grappling applies to jujitsu with no ghee and you see people with the ghee and they're doing all these crazy shit where they're pulling the collar around the back of the head and nobody understands that and matches end up boring when people just have grips nobody moves and the scoring is strange and it's hard to watch even as a fan of jujitsu it's hard to watch some of the matches but it is even Jean -Jacques said that to me it was like you know done it forever he's like these guys you know like a lot of them that's what they do they play that kind of game where they stall out but that might be a place where you can get competition.

[1537] Oh, if I competed in the ghee, I would definitely have a lot of competition.

[1538] But that's the argument.

[1539] Nobody understands is everyone's like, oh, we can never be the best, unless he competes in the ghee.

[1540] Well, that's not what I'm trying to do.

[1541] I'm not trying to be the greatest of all.

[1542] Hodges, the greatest of all time.

[1543] I'm trying to be the best no -ge submission grappler of all time.

[1544] I'm not interested in doing both.

[1545] And everyone's like, well, the only reason why you're good at no -ge is because you train all the time, no -ge.

[1546] And I'm like, yeah, that's the point.

[1547] That's the point of specializing in one domain so you can be better than the rest of the guys who don't do that.

[1548] It's a pretty fucking dumb argument against you.

[1549] And the best is, the argument now is you are only good no -gee because you spend all of your time training no -gee.

[1550] But what did everyone tell us coming through the ranks?

[1551] If you want to be good at no -gee, you've got to train the ghee.

[1552] Where is the dumbest argument.

[1553] Where do that argument go?

[1554] That argument's gone.

[1555] If you want to be good at wrestling, you don't train judo.

[1556] If you want to be good at judo, you don't train wrestling.

[1557] if you want to be good at Nogi, train Nogi Jiu -Jitsu.

[1558] And so specializing in Nogi -Jitsu, yes, of course, I'm going to be better than the rest of the guys because I specialize in this.

[1559] That's the whole point.

[1560] That's why I'm doing it.

[1561] Yeah, Eddie Bravo was always, like, furious with that argument that if you want to be better at Nogi, you have to train the ghee.

[1562] He's like, that doesn't make any sense.

[1563] Like, they're saying this because they're good at the ghee.

[1564] He was like, they're only saying this because they're good at the ghee, and they don't want to give up the ghee because they give up the ghee.

[1565] They lose whatever, 40 % of their game.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] And if you look at like the old ADCCs, it was basically just an unspoken rule where it was dominated primarily by Brazilians.

[1568] They would train the ghee.

[1569] They would show up and they would take off their ghee and they would just hope for the best.

[1570] But then you have a guy like Dean Lister who comes in who's a specialist who only really trains no ghee who comes in and starts heel -hooking people and you're like, oh shit, this is different than what we're doing.

[1571] We have to either adapt or we're going to lose.

[1572] And I mean, people have done a pretty poor job overall adapting, to be honest.

[1573] Yeah, that's one of the other things I was going to get to.

[1574] Has any other team sort of looked at the system that you guys have put together and adopted something similar or quasi similar?

[1575] I mean, you have some guys who try to emulate what we do with leg locks.

[1576] You have some guys who try to emulate what we do with back attacks, but it's a very rudimentary version of what we're doing.

[1577] They copy just a general outline of what we're doing.

[1578] trying to do.

[1579] It's like I talked about before.

[1580] It's nothing specific.

[1581] It's everyone just looks at, okay, these guys are doing leg locks and they're great attacking the back, or they're great at body lock guard passing.

[1582] So they start to play around with it.

[1583] But they don't, they don't see the nuances that make the difference between hitting it on the best guys in the world and having it completely failed in the best guys in the world.

[1584] They just look at the general outline and they try to copy it the best they can and they fiddle around with the position and they hope for the best.

[1585] But no one's really, No one's really even doing a good job of not even just copying us, but no one at all is going beyond what we're doing.

[1586] Like what John does, he looks at the best guys in the world and he says, okay, this is a great move.

[1587] How can I make it better and how can I go beyond what they're doing?

[1588] What everyone's just trying to do is just a shitty version of what we're doing.

[1589] They're not trying to look at us and be like, okay, this is good what they're doing, but how can I make it even better than what we're doing?

[1590] But Craig Jones was the only guy that before he was training with you guys was, looking at what you were doing and figured out a way to successfully emulate a lot of it.

[1591] Yeah, I mean, Craig was very successful before he started training with us.

[1592] I remember Craig, Craig may be one of the dumbest people I know because he lived in beautiful sunny and beechy Australia and he moved to this shit hole that is New York to just take a train or a car through the Lincoln Tunnel every day and he would come to that base and train with us and when he first got here we do a lot of positional rounds so he wasn't used to doing that so he just moved to this miserable city to just get beat up every single day by all the guys in the room and uh and i'm like Craig I'm like why would you make a move to New York's like why would anyone move to New York City and he's like he's like I just want to get better at Jitza I'm like okay you got to respect that and now he's far better than than he was but he was already doing some of the stuff that uh that we were that we were doing before he started training with us, and then he came to train with us, and he just instantly picked up all the other things that we were doing.

[1593] So he was one of the smarter guys who, you know, he's fully, he's like, these guys are doing something different.

[1594] I want to fully envelop myself in what they're doing, and I want to be a part of that.

[1595] And he's had a lot more success than he's had a lot more success now than he did when he was, when he wasn't with us.

[1596] Have you always hated New York City?

[1597] Oh, yeah.

[1598] Oh, yeah.

[1599] It's awful.

[1600] So I'm originally from central jersey i grew up in monroe township and then uh my parents got divorced and i was driving an hour and a half like a thousand miles a week uh to get to the city with gary thousand miles a week yeah it was far um and uh so my my parents got divorced and then the house got sold so i'm like let me move to new york so i i was like kind of i was against it at first But, you know, I got convinced to move to New York, and I was like, let me give it a try.

[1601] So I was in New York for two years, and I just absolutely, I hated it.

[1602] I just could not stand the city.

[1603] And, you know, for me, you pay all the New York City prices, but you don't get to enjoy any of what New York is.

[1604] Like, I never got out to go to sightsee.

[1605] I never got out to go.

[1606] I never went out partying or to the clubs.

[1607] Like, that's, you know, New York is famous for the nightlife.

[1608] I get to wake up at 6 a .m. and go to train the next day.

[1609] Like, I'm not going out and partying.

[1610] So I'm paying all the New York City taxes.

[1611] I'm paying all the New York City prices.

[1612] I'm dealing with all the crazy homeless people on the subway.

[1613] And I'm not getting to enjoy any of the good parts in New York.

[1614] So I hated New York from day one.

[1615] And then I actually ended up moving back to North Caldwell, New Jersey.

[1616] I bought a house in New Jersey.

[1617] And that was when I was convinced that John was never going to leave New York.

[1618] So I was like, let me just buy a house.

[1619] I'll be here for the next 10 years in my career.

[1620] And then like eight months later, he's like, all right, we're moving out of New York.

[1621] And I'm like, great, let me just put my house up for sale that I just bought.

[1622] So New York was, I've never, I've never jived with New York.

[1623] It's something that's okay to visit here and there, but I just, I never liked the big city.

[1624] I never liked that everyone was always so, you know, pissy and aggressive.

[1625] I never liked being verbally and physically attacked by homeless people on subways, which I think is pretty normal for anyone to not want to be, you know, pay 50 % tax and not you know, not go out of your house and have a homeless guy shitting on your sidewalk.

[1626] I think it's a pretty normal thing to request.

[1627] I think it's reasonable.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] And so John, his response was to the way New York City was treating the pandemic.

[1630] Yeah.

[1631] I mean, so, I mean, you basically have a city that comes out and they're like, you guys cannot train.

[1632] Like, it was crazy when the lockdown first happened because, you know, we were still training.

[1633] And we would drive into New York City, and there was just nobody there.

[1634] Like, to drive into New York City and just see zero people, besides the homeless people, on the streets, was just, like, it was like almost surreal.

[1635] Like, you walk into Times Square, and there's just nobody there.

[1636] Like, it was like a ghost town in New York.

[1637] Everyone was afraid to leave their houses.

[1638] And, you know, we just, we're like, yeah, we're just going to keep training because what else are we going to do?

[1639] So they're like, you guys can't train.

[1640] You got to shut down the gym.

[1641] And by the way, we're raising taxes and, you know, everything's going to cost more money because now we need to make up for the lost money that we have in taxes because we shut down all the businesses.

[1642] So it was just like every business was getting shut down.

[1643] They kept making more more rules.

[1644] They kept raising prices on everything.

[1645] And it's like, why am I going to stay here if I can't even legally go to train jihitsu and I'm just paying all these absurd prices for no reason?

[1646] It just doesn't make sense.

[1647] And so John came up with the idea to move to Puerto Rico?

[1648] Like, whose idea was it?

[1649] I came up with the idea to move to Puerto Rico because, so the biggest thing for us was that we weren't sure how COVID was going to affect, was going to affect opening up a school.

[1650] So originally what we planned was to move to Puerto Rico as kind of a semi -permanent location because we had a friend in Puerto Rico who had a private mat space in his house that we could train at if we needed to.

[1651] So we were afraid of, we were looking at Puerto Rico, Texas, Florida.

[1652] we were afraid to move to Texas because there were so many uncertainties at the time.

[1653] We didn't want to move to Texas, spend $200 ,000 opening up a school, and then having the government be like, you guys can't run this school, shut it down, and then we're like, well, what the fuck do we do?

[1654] So we kind of use Puerto Rico as an intermediary step where we move there.

[1655] And worst case scenario, we would still have a place to train and mats to train on at a friend's place so that the competition guys could train and get ready for competitions if they needed to.

[1656] And now we're working on opening up a school there, and it's a little bit more permanent for now.

[1657] And so where are you guys training now?

[1658] When I see you training, it looks like you're in a gym.

[1659] Yeah, so we're in Combat 360, a buddy of ours, Juan, that we know through one of our mutual friends.

[1660] He has a school down there in Guay Nabo, and we're currently training in his gym.

[1661] The problem is it's pretty much only big enough for just the competitors.

[1662] So everyone's asking, oh, when can we come train?

[1663] When can we come train?

[1664] Well, whenever we get a school opened is when you guys can come train.

[1665] because right now it's a relatively small mat space and you put 15 people on the mat and it's crowded.

[1666] So right now we're just working on a friend's gym.

[1667] We're working on opening up a gym for us and then once the gym gets open it'll be a lot easier.

[1668] What led you to Puerto Rico versus New York versus rather Texas or Florida?

[1669] For us it was just originally the COVID restrictions.

[1670] Like I said, there were so many uncertainties as far as moving like, you know, was Biden going to win or not?

[1671] If he got into office, what was he going to do with the COVID restrictions?

[1672] And we didn't want to move to Texas where, I don't mean, I don't really, have them shut everything down.

[1673] I'd have them shut everything down.

[1674] But Florida was pretty open at the time, right?

[1675] Florida was starting to open, but it was, I think it was still closed at the time.

[1676] I still had masks going on.

[1677] And, you know, we, we didn't know if Biden got elected, would governors listen to whatever he was trying to say, whatever he was trying to make them do?

[1678] So we, we didn't really know.

[1679] We didn't have any close friends in Texas or Florida that had a private space for us to train, provided a school wasn't going to be an option.

[1680] But in Puerto Rico, we had friends there that just, okay, we can lay mats down to my house, my garage, or whatever the case is, and we have enough mat space for 20 people to train on if we need, if a school isn't an option anywhere in the country.

[1681] So the fact that we had a sure fireplace to train, even if gyms are getting shut down, was the reason why we moved there.

[1682] So how many months went by before competition was held.

[1683] So everything shut down in March.

[1684] When did you guys start competing again?

[1685] I think it was probably, I'm not sure.

[1686] I think it was probably five months.

[1687] I mean, they were talking about doing it and they couldn't find venues to allow anyone to, even with no crowd, like to put 50 people in a room, you have all the, you know, the production team and the referees and the athletes and the corners.

[1688] It was hard for them to find the venue to allow them.

[1689] them to do that.

[1690] And then the first events that started popping it back up, I'm pretty sure with the flow, the flow grappling events and the Who's number one came.

[1691] And then I think it's like somewhere five or six months into the lockdown.

[1692] They started doing no spectator shows and then it kind of just kicked off from there.

[1693] And where do you anticipate?

[1694] So the regulations, the way they have it set up in Puerto Rico, you can kind of do whatever you want, right?

[1695] Um, yes, they're still kind of, I mean, we have our buddy who we train with, um, is very good.

[1696] He teaches, like, um, he teaches all the police.

[1697] He's like the instructor for the police there.

[1698] So they, they kind of, they kind of leave him alone.

[1699] But, uh, they're, they're sticklers like for masks.

[1700] Like, you need to have masks everywhere.

[1701] You need to, they actually have a law where you need to wear a mask outside.

[1702] And if you don't have a mask outside, you can get fine $5 ,000.

[1703] 10 ,000, 10 ,000 dollars for the second offense.

[1704] You need to have masks on the beach, provided you're not swimming.

[1705] I mean, nobody listens to these rules, and they're not enforced, but those are the actual rules that are in place right now.

[1706] So they're pretty bad as far as masks go, as far as what their actual rules are.

[1707] But no one enforces them.

[1708] Everyone pretty much does what they want.

[1709] You still have to wear masks inside all buildings and stuff, but other than that, it's not really that big of an issue.

[1710] What does it feel like living in Puerto Rico?

[1711] I mean, it's awesome.

[1712] It's definitely a huge change of pace.

[1713] going any if you go anywhere in the country and you're coming from new york everything seems slow but going to an island going to puerto rico it's like 10 times worse like everyone's just it's just like you feel like it's almost a joke like everyone just moved so slowly there everyone shows up late it's just like you got to get used to it if you don't accept that this is the way that things work you're just going to drive yourself crazy coming from a place like new york um yeah i was talking to craig about when he bought a car and the brakes didn't work oh yeah so we had like we've had like four people buy cars from there, and they've all just fallen apart in the first three days.

[1714] So there's one thing I can recommend to anyone.

[1715] If you're moving to Puerto Rico, buy a car new, or have it shipped in from the mainland, don't buy it from one of the locals there.

[1716] And do what you did and get something that's Japanese.

[1717] Yeah, yeah.

[1718] I bought that little Miata, and I shipped my truck, my Tacoma there.

[1719] So I've had no problems yet so far.

[1720] Well, that's the thing is those cars are pretty bulletproof.

[1721] Yeah.

[1722] So I have, like, this little Miata that's a convertible with a six -speed in it, And I just, like, beat the shit out of it.

[1723] And it just, I mean, I only have a thousand miles on it, but it's, it's going to be, it's going to be rock solid.

[1724] Those are the most underrated little sports cars in the world because they're so small and they're so fun to drive.

[1725] They're so light.

[1726] Yeah, everyone knocks on them.

[1727] But until you drive one, you can't really talk shit about them.

[1728] They're by no means fast, but it feels like you're going fast no matter what speed you're going.

[1729] Because it's so tiny.

[1730] It feels like a go -cart.

[1731] It has just enough power to where if you, like, pop the clutch at like 8 ,000 RPM, you can, like, get the top.

[1732] tires to break loose.

[1733] And it's perfectly balanced 50 -50 with the weight in the back.

[1734] So if you like, if you pop the clutch and you get the tire spinning and you want to like do a little drift, like you can hold the drift easily without any experience because the cars, it's giving you everything that it has as far as power go.

[1735] So you can't like overshoot it and spin around.

[1736] It's like just impossible to do.

[1737] And it's perfectly balanced.

[1738] So you can like hold it in drifts.

[1739] You can do burnouts with it.

[1740] It's like the best car ever for Porter.

[1741] Have you ever seen that company that's called Flying Miata?

[1742] I have, yeah.

[1743] They're ridiculous I wonder what those are like to drive Because it's got to upset the balance of the car a bit No?

[1744] Yeah, they put They have all kinds of crazy stuff They put Hellcat engines in the front of them Like it just They have like a 2 ,000 pound car With 700 horsepower Really?

[1745] Yeah But the fucking engine must be so much heavier than the What is a four cylinder in the Mionter?

[1746] I think it's a four cylinder I think it's a 2 .5 liter Two or 2 .5 liter I believe I'm not positive But it's got like 181 horsepower but it's actually pretty quick it's got like a 5 .70 to 60 really yeah and it actually is faster than that because you have to shift into third gear in order to actually hit 60 so if second gear carries you through 60 miles an hour it would be like a mid 5 like a 5 4 or something like that but you have to shift into third to hit 60 so it's it's quick but it's definitely not fast like you're not going to get in the car I'm like oh my god this car's fast but it's fun to drive the engine though in comparison to like I wonder what those flying meados are like to drive because it's got to fuck with it a little bit.

[1747] It's got to make it like an old muscle hard.

[1748] It's way heavier in the front, yeah.

[1749] Yeah, it has to be, right?

[1750] Unless they do something to the rear, like, is there a way to do that where they could beef up the rear end?

[1751] I'm not sure, but I mean, if you drop a huge engine in the front of it, it means it's going to be heavier in the front.

[1752] Yeah.

[1753] But I mean, a Miala with 500 horsepower, 700 horsepower, and Miala with 700 horsepower.

[1754] It's just so ridiculous.

[1755] It's going to be fun no matter what.

[1756] Well, it seems like maybe a turbo charge six, you could kind of get it closer.

[1757] Get away with it, yeah.

[1758] Yeah, whereas...

[1759] But people are, like, dropping huge V8s into them.

[1760] I would like to see what...

[1761] I want to see what that looks like, because they must do something to the tires as well, right?

[1762] Do they flare the wheelwells and put larger tires?

[1763] They put a lot of wide body kits on them.

[1764] They put, like, the extra fender.

[1765] They, like, either bolt on or weld the fender so that you can get wider tires in the back.

[1766] A friend of mine had one of those Honda, what were they called?

[1767] The S -2000s.

[1768] Yeah.

[1769] Yeah.

[1770] And that was an interesting little car, too.

[1771] Super underrated.

[1772] That's what everyone told me to get and told me if I was a real man. I should have the S -2000 and not a Miata.

[1773] And I'm like, yeah, but does the S -2000 have Apple Car play?

[1774] Oh, good car.

[1775] I'm like, the Miata is like, it's just modern enough to, it has like Apple Car play and it has like all the things that you need.

[1776] But it still gives you like this raw driving experience of like an older like 80s or 90s car where it's like you feel like it's just you in the road and there's not much else to be distracted by a mechanical feeling yeah yeah yeah that's the thing like it's hard to get a mechanical feeling with these uh newer cars like one of my favorite cars that i have is a 2005 bmw m3 the old m3s are amazing it's not nearly the fastest car that i have but it's so mechanical like everything about it like you feel everything when you're shifting the gears and you're you know you're driving it like you feel where the when the tires are about to break you can really feel it yeah there's nothing better for me than like the old muscle car feel.

[1777] Like I have the CTSV that I bought for my dad, the 2017 CTSV.

[1778] And just like the fact that if you just stomp on the gas, you're not sure whether or not you're going to die.

[1779] Oh, Matt Farah has one.

[1780] Look at that fucking thing.

[1781] 520 horsepower and like a 2 ,000 pound car.

[1782] It's insane.

[1783] That is so crazy.

[1784] That's crazy.

[1785] Give me some juice on this.

[1786] Let me see what happens when he takes off.

[1787] Go from the beginning when he takes off.

[1788] God, listen to it.

[1789] That's going to go on the super I got to see what that's like.

[1790] That's going to be like me in three weeks.

[1791] We're not going to go on the super million mile an hour road.

[1792] We're going to make sure that the balance is maintained.

[1793] Gearbox, you said T -506.

[1794] He's a good guy to listen to because Matt really understands cars.

[1795] The whole drive train is built for the windows up so we can get audio.

[1796] The whole drive train's built for this, right?

[1797] It sounds amazing.

[1798] It's built for 4 ,000 -pound car.

[1799] It's completely understressed.

[1800] Okay, so they adjusted a lot of shit with those cars.

[1801] And they overbuilt it, yeah.

[1802] This is going to be very nice.

[1803] So it's got a 520 horsepower LS3.

[1804] Wow.

[1805] That's the goal.

[1806] This is fantastic.

[1807] The shifter even feels nice.

[1808] That's wild.

[1809] Okay.

[1810] I wonder how much one of those costs to do that kind of a swap.

[1811] Yeah.

[1812] Yeah, I mean, it's not crazy expensive, but it's not cheap.

[1813] Yeah.

[1814] But, I mean, it's worth it.

[1815] I would imagine.

[1816] That's me in three weeks.

[1817] Yeah, well, if it's 2 ,000 pounds, even if you add a couple of hundred.

[1818] Yeah.

[1819] With that kind of power, that must be preposterous.

[1820] They make, like, a supercharger and turbo kits that get it up like 250, and you have, like, a sub -5 -060.

[1821] Like, it's, they get pretty quick.

[1822] Yeah, well, I'm imagining that.

[1823] That's probably quite a bit quicker than that.

[1824] Yeah, I was going to bring in a...

[1825] muscle car but uh i know it's raining today yeah it's that's the one thing about uh this place versus california is it rains all the time but it's also why it's so fucking pretty yeah everything's so green like when i go back to california i'm like what is wrong with you people yeah why are you all still here the tier x is a good replacement yeah i've been ever since ever since they announced that i've been in love with that thing and uh i don't want to trade my truck because I just love driving manuals.

[1826] My truck's a six -speed.

[1827] But the TRX is definitely a truck that I...

[1828] If I ever moved to a place like Texas, I definitely want to one of those big trucks.

[1829] Yeah.

[1830] That's a ridiculous car.

[1831] Yeah.

[1832] And then when Hennessy takes it, it makes it even more ridiculous.

[1833] Like, Dodge is amazing.

[1834] They're just putting Hellcat engines in everything.

[1835] Everything.

[1836] Like, let's put it in the d 'Rangle.

[1837] Let's put in the Jeep.

[1838] Let's put in the truck.

[1839] They haven't put it in a Wrangler yet.

[1840] Like a Jeep Wrangler.

[1841] No, but they put the SRT one in the Wrangler.

[1842] It's like 470, but there's some guys that'll do that.

[1843] They do Hellcat conversions for two -door anglers.

[1844] Yeah.

[1845] Like, that's insane.

[1846] It is insane, but I just love the fact that people are doing that.

[1847] I'm like you.

[1848] I love all cars.

[1849] I'm a fan of cars.

[1850] I'm a giant fan of the old muscle cars.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] Like, I was talking about just the fact with the CTSV where if you get into a nice Mercedes or a BMW or like an all -wheel drive Audi and you stomp on the gas, like it's fun, but you're, you're, you know what's going to happen.

[1853] You're going to straight line, it's going to be fast.

[1854] Like, with a Cadillac, you hit the gas, and you're like, at any moment I could die.

[1855] And, like, that's what I like.

[1856] Like, you have, like, 700 horsepower rear -wheel drive.

[1857] And it's, like, it's like, it's like, it's bombs gone off behind you.

[1858] I have, like, a course of exhaust on it.

[1859] And the tie is just moving it.

[1860] The tires are spinning.

[1861] The car's moving everywhere.

[1862] And you're just like, wow, this is like, this is what I signed up for.

[1863] It's just so funny that it's a Cadillac.

[1864] If you could, if anybody from, like, the 1960s could see a Cadillac today, they'd be like, What the fuck happened?

[1865] Did you see the new CT5 Blackwing?

[1866] No. They're coming out with.

[1867] So they're coming out with the new CT5 black wing.

[1868] And it comes with 670 horsepower.

[1869] It's like GM's last shebang with like a big supercharged V8s, I think.

[1870] And it comes in a 10 -speed auto or a six -speed manual.

[1871] Really?

[1872] Yeah.

[1873] And a six -speed manual and like a luxury American muscle car is fucking awesome.

[1874] How many doors is it?

[1875] It's four -door.

[1876] Wow.

[1877] You can get that in a manual.

[1878] That's nuts.

[1879] 2022 that will be their last Shabang because they are going to move to electric everything's moving to electric Yeah that's definitely the future But there's nothing like a fucking Look at that fucking thing Like an old V8 That is crazy that they're doing that in a manual I wonder how many are they going to sell Well if they're going to sell any of them They're going to sell them here in America The only other company that is like hanging in there With manuals other than American cars is Porsche Yeah They're the only ones Those motherfuckers are still going strong With manual transmission 668 horsepower That's bonkers.

[1880] Top speed, 200, over 200 miles an hour.

[1881] And you know the 10 speed is way faster, but a 6 speed is a 6 speed.

[1882] It's just more fun to drive.

[1883] It's way more enjoyable for me. Most of my cars are manual transmission.

[1884] It's just way more fun.

[1885] Yeah.

[1886] I get it.

[1887] People want convenience, but I've always feel like those are people that don't truly appreciate cars.

[1888] Yeah, like you just want to get in a car and go to work at point A to point B. Yeah.

[1889] I get it.

[1890] You want a nice car.

[1891] And you want to be able to do that in a nice car.

[1892] I get it.

[1893] When you're doing...

[1894] Bluh...

[1895] Like when you get in a car to drive it, it's different.

[1896] Yeah, you feel like you're on a fucking movie.

[1897] Yeah.

[1898] Yeah, it's awesome.

[1899] I love it.

[1900] I'm a giant fan.

[1901] Have you taken your car to a track ever?

[1902] I haven't, no. I don't either.

[1903] It's all my...

[1904] One time I did back when I was doing Fear Factor, but not for a long time.

[1905] It's on my wish list.

[1906] I actually have a buddy in Puerto Rico who is going to...

[1907] You can rent the track for like $200 a day or something in Puerto Rico.

[1908] And when I get back, actually, like, one of the...

[1909] the first day as I get back, I'm going to take the Miata to a track, and I'm going to try to see if I can fuck around a little bit there with it.

[1910] But it's definitely something that I want to do.

[1911] I just have never done it.

[1912] What do you think you're going to be doing when you're done with all this competing?

[1913] When I finish competing, I don't really know.

[1914] When I finish competing and when I finish my competitive career, I want to compete until I'm 35 to 40.

[1915] That's what my goal is now, as long as my body and my stomach.

[1916] Okay, but maybe I'm going to be, I'm definitely going to have enough money where I don't need to have, need to open up a school to support myself, but maybe I'm just going to be bored and maybe I just want to run a school to, you know, help other people and, and just because I love Djitu so much, I just want to teach.

[1917] Or maybe I'm just going to be like, you know what, I've done Djitin for the last 20 years.

[1918] Fuck this.

[1919] I don't want to have anything to do with it.

[1920] And I just, like, buy a house in the middle of the woods somewhere and not have to deal with anybody.

[1921] So, like, it could go either way.

[1922] Um, right now with the current, the current series of events has happening in America, I feel like I'm just going to want to buy a house like in the middle of the woods in Montana that like you can't get to unless you helicopter in and just never like not be surrounded by anybody.

[1923] Um, but, uh, it's, it's, it's tough to say.

[1924] Um, don't you think you get bored?

[1925] Yeah, I would.

[1926] But I think, uh, one of the things I also want to do when I retire.

[1927] It's like on my bucket list is, uh, I want to have like a rooftop tent on a truck and I want to travel around teaching seminars to all 50 states.

[1928] see which states I want to buy houses in, like see which state's the most enjoyable.

[1929] So that's one of the things I want to do when I retire.

[1930] That's not a bad move.

[1931] Yeah, the retirement thing, how much money can you make doing Jiu -Jitsu right now?

[1932] How much money can I make or how much money can most people make?

[1933] A couple million dollars a year.

[1934] Really?

[1935] Is that what you're doing right now?

[1936] Yeah.

[1937] Wow.

[1938] And is that seminars as well as?

[1939] It's mostly instructional.

[1940] Most of my money, well, actually most of my money comes from a series of investments that I have, but as far as just jiu -jitsu, most of the money I make comes from instructional.

[1941] Probably about 90 % of my income in the sport of jihitsu comes from instructional.

[1942] Instructionals make far more than sponsors, competitions, and seminars all put together.

[1943] Really?

[1944] So your competitions in a sense are like an advertisement other than your career, you know, in defining your legacy.

[1945] They're an advertisement for your instructional's.

[1946] Yeah.

[1947] So like for example, I'm going to be releasing a series called Attacking from Top Pins with BGJ Fanatics.

[1948] That's my next instructional coming out.

[1949] So like my last couple matches, I've hit attacks from top pins.

[1950] Like I hit the Kim Moore from a top half guard.

[1951] I hit the mounted arm bar.

[1952] So I basically just use my matches now to market whatever instructional I'm going to be coming out with soon.

[1953] And these instructional, here's the big question.

[1954] How come people aren't seeing these instructional and then utilizing your system?

[1955] And then why don't we see like a bunch of clones of the Donna Heard Death Squad out there?

[1956] You see them in the up and coming generations.

[1957] The guys who are already established are too arrogant to watch them.

[1958] And it's just like I talk about, like most people get to a certain level.

[1959] Usually it's black belt.

[1960] and then they coast with that level of technique and they don't really get any better.

[1961] So if you go to like ADCC Worlds, you see your typical 2010 Jiu -TZU.

[1962] If you go to ADCC trials with all the up -and -coming guys, you see pretty much just a mimic of what our game is.

[1963] Everyone uses Ashi Gramies into leg locks.

[1964] People are trapping arms in the back.

[1965] So you see a lot of the younger generations and the new school guys trying to do what we do with the old school guys, The guys who I'm competing against currently won't even bother.

[1966] That it's too lazy to watch an 11 -hour instructional on back attacks.

[1967] And they just were like, you know, what, fuck this guy.

[1968] I'm going to do the same shit I've been doing for the last, you know, 25 years.

[1969] How long do you think they can last doing that, though?

[1970] It seems like with the new guys coming up, you do see these more complex games.

[1971] You do see these more diverse games.

[1972] Well, you see a general pattern in Jiu -Jitsu.

[1973] You see a guy get to a certain level.

[1974] He wins a few competitions, or a few big competitions.

[1975] Then he coasts on the technique he has, and the only progression that he makes, from the age of 25 where he wins his first ADCC to the age of 35 is everyone just takes more steroids.

[1976] So they just get bigger and stronger, and then they just coast on the same technique they have.

[1977] and then by the time the 35 to 40, they peak physically, and then after that, they kind of degenerate, and then that's the end of the career.

[1978] So, I mean, what we're focused on is progression, is rapid progression over a small amount of time.

[1979] So that by time I'm, like, myself at 35, wouldn't even be competitive with myself now.

[1980] Like, whereas most guys, a 25 -year -old competitor versus a 35 -year -old competitor, versus a 35 -year -old competitor, They're relatively the same in technique, but the 35 -year -old guy has just 10 more years of juice, and he's just a little bit bigger and stronger.

[1981] So he's going to win the match.

[1982] Yeah, that is a problem with jiu -jitsu today, is that there's whatever drug testing they do is basically intelligence test.

[1983] Yeah, and there's none.

[1984] I mean, if you look at actual jiu -jitsu, in most competitions, there's not even a rule where you can't use steroids.

[1985] It's legal.

[1986] And then if they do have testing, it's like the UFC.

[1987] Like the IBGGF test for, they don't do random testing.

[1988] They do one test in the day of the event for every other winner, for every other division winner.

[1989] So they test one weight class, and then they skip one weight class, and they test another weight class.

[1990] And no one says you can't use steroids.

[1991] They just say you can't get caught using steroids.

[1992] It's a big difference.

[1993] You know, do I think that everyone who passed Osada tests are natural?

[1994] Absolutely not.

[1995] So, you know, the competitions who do test in Jiu -Jitsu don't say you don't have to use steroids.

[1996] They just say you don't have to get, you can't be caught using steroids.

[1997] It will penalize you.

[1998] And there's only one competition that I know of that test, which is the IBJGF worlds.

[1999] And then they don't, nobody else test for it.

[2000] I used to think naively that Yusada had basically cleaned up the sport.

[2001] and then I watched this video from this guy.

[2002] Derek's YouTube shows more plates, more dates.

[2003] Yeah.

[2004] You know that guy?

[2005] Yeah, he did a thing on me. Did he?

[2006] Yeah, he did a video.

[2007] Natty or not?

[2008] Is that what it is?

[2009] What did he conclude?

[2010] Well, actually, he did a thing about me and Lachlan Giles because we were arguing about him being on steroids.

[2011] And I forget what he actually concluded because it was more about, it was like a natty or not, but it was also like talking.

[2012] talking about the argument between me and Lachlan and, you know, building, gaining mass in a sport where you're basically just doing cardio all day.

[2013] So it was like a nat of your nap, but it was mixed with some other arguments that I had with some guy on Lund.

[2014] But his argument, well, his video about Paula Costa and John Jones and all these guys that have, you know, either failed tests or, you know, had issues in the past, was very enlightening.

[2015] because I didn't know what the how much wiggle room there was there's a lot yeah and like if you if you think about it like usada has a certain amount of resources uh and wada has a certain amount of resources but beating drug tests like for the olympics is like a multi -billion dollar industry and you have countries behind beating drug tests like you want to like your country wants to win the olympics like you have the country of germany the country of the u. a country of Russia, dedicating scientists and billions of dollars to getting these guys to pass a drug test to win the Olympics.

[2016] Like, the industry for beating drug tests has a lot more money going through it than the industry for drug testing itself.

[2017] Yeah, well, if you've seen the documentary, Icarus, you'll, have you seen that?

[2018] It's amazing.

[2019] It's a documentary that they basically got very lucky.

[2020] and the guy Brian Fogel, who's the director of the documentary, and he created it, he was going to do a bike race clean and then do it the next year, juiced.

[2021] And so, and document it and see how much of an effect it actually has on cycling.

[2022] So he does it clean, and then he hires this guy who's the head of the Russian anti -doping agency.

[2023] Well, when he does that, it is right at the same time where they get busted for the Sochi Olympics.

[2024] So what they did with the Sochi Olympics is the Russian team had this really a lot of, elaborate scam where they put a hole in the wall and they were passing clean urine through and taking the dirty urine.

[2025] So they had all the urine stored in this one room and they had figured this out by doing a microanalysis of the glass that the urine was in.

[2026] They found scratches that indicated that they figured out a way to get past this very sophisticated locking mechanism that was previously thought to be impossible to open up.

[2027] And so these guys had done that and they had swapped urine out and then they got busted and down this guy, Gregory Rachenkoff had to escape Russia in fucking the cover of night and come over to America.

[2028] They did this now.

[2029] He's under witness protection program right now.

[2030] They want to kill him.

[2031] Like they've targeted his family back in Russia.

[2032] They took all their funds away.

[2033] They took their house away.

[2034] It's crazy.

[2035] And he went into detail about how the Russian athletes, all of them across the board, juiced.

[2036] He said the only people that weren't used for the figure skaters because they didn't find any benefit in juicing them and with their fine motor skills deteriorated and they also found that the females look too manly.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] The um it's uh it's always funny to see uh guys that are competing at like 35 years old that are like twice as jacked and twice as cut as they were when they were 25 years old like that's not supposed to happen.

[2039] What about U .L. Romero?

[2040] Yeah.

[2041] He's the freak of all freaks.

[2042] I mean, he's twice as big and twice as cut as he was when he was like an Olympic level athlete.

[2043] Yeah.

[2044] Like it's insane.

[2045] And it's the same thing like Lance Armstrong, like that they wanted to give the prize to the next guy who wasn't doping.

[2046] It was like a 76 person or something.

[2047] Something crazy.

[2048] Way down the line that like didn't even make sense to like give it to the next guy.

[2049] So it's really interesting, you know, how everyone thinks that if you can pass a use out.

[2050] to test that you're like 100 % clean and I just don't believe that's the case at all.

[2051] Yeah, Yowell Romero just got pulled from his fight with Rumble Johnson.

[2052] I saw that.

[2053] They said that he failed some sort of pre -fight medical, but I wonder what that would be about.

[2054] Have they released that yet?

[2055] What do you think is going to happen?

[2056] Do you think that you're going to continue with John Donahur's plan and go into just Jiu -Jitsu from now on and just dominate Jiu -Jitsu?

[2057] Or do you think there'll be a time where you're going to be temer to.

[2058] enough to compete in MMA if you had a guess it's it's too early to tell yet um you know I've always wanted to fight MMA I think it's going to be a big a big deciding factor is going to be how 2022 ADCC goes um you know how big is the sport going to be after that event um who is going to win the absolute like where are they holding that Vegas it's in really Thomas and Mac no shit yeah what month my September late September it's in the Thomas the Mac Arena.

[2059] It's going to be, they're going to be huge.

[2060] They're getting, I think they want to get billboards, like in the strip and put like a whole ADCC poster on there.

[2061] It's going to be, it's going to be a big event.

[2062] I would say I'm definitely going to be there, but September's elk hunting season.

[2063] Okay, so.

[2064] September's tough to give up September.

[2065] If you can make two days.

[2066] Ah, I don't know if I can.

[2067] 24th through 26.

[2068] Oh, that's a terrible time of year.

[2069] That's when they're screaming.

[2070] That's when the elk are screaming.

[2071] What the fuck you doing?

[2072] ADCC, you non -elkunting mother fuckers?

[2073] It's always September.

[2074] Always late September.

[2075] Oh, that's literally prime elk hunting time.

[2076] Shit!

[2077] So, yeah, that's going to be a big one.

[2078] And there's a good chance, like, my brother or Craig, like, there's a good chance that one of my teammates wins the absolute, so what am I going to do?

[2079] Am I going to fight him?

[2080] Am I going to relinquish the title and move to M .MA?

[2081] Am I going to relinquish the superfight title and move back to the vision and do the absolute?

[2082] You know, it's It's kind of hard to tell.

[2083] Have you ever gotten to a situation like that where you had to compete against a teammate?

[2084] Had to compete against Gary Tonin, the last ABCC.

[2085] That's right.

[2086] Everybody thinks that match was fake, but that was like the most heartbreak.

[2087] That's like the thing that annoys me the most is everyone thinks it was fake, but it was like 100 % real, and it was like the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to do because Gary is one of my first coaches.

[2088] Like Gary was a black belt when I was a blue belt, and he was like one of the first guys who really helped me, you know, move up through the ranks.

[2089] And he introduced me to John, and, you know, he was a big part of my career, my early career, and even my career now.

[2090] And that was the first year that they allowed two people to be in the same division, two people from the same team to be in the absolute.

[2091] But the way the ADCC does it is because there used to be so many fake fights in the quarter and the semifinals of the finals that they make all the teammates fight second round now.

[2092] So you can't fake a fight and then go to the finals being fresh or you can't fake a fight in the finals.

[2093] So they make all the teammates fight second round.

[2094] So I had to go out and compete against Gary's second round and everyone thinks it was fake because it looks like he just gave me his back.

[2095] But Gary knew that his one, his one chance of like definitively beating me was to leglock me. So he tried to back step into my legs.

[2096] I knew it was coming and then I just exposed his back and I took his back and I had his back like the first minute in and then I ended up finishing him and everyone thinks it was fake but I'm like I did this to everybody else in the tournament like I submit everybody else like up until this point.

[2097] Why do you guys think it was fake?

[2098] well they think it's fake because so many of them were doing it fake yeah of course yeah that that is that's always been the case with uh when jih Tzu teams meet up I mean they would make agreements yeah yeah and now they have like what they do is they have like they have like three -way agreements where like not even guys on different teams will uh will make agreements to you know to beat one guy on the other side of the bracket they don't like like who has the best chance of beating the guy we don't like or if it's this guy then we'll do two fake matches and this guy will go to the finals really like it's crazy Yeah.

[2099] So they'll do two fake matches so the guy's fresh when he faces that other guy?

[2100] Yeah.

[2101] Oh.

[2102] Why is, how did Jiu -Jitsu fall short in this way?

[2103] Like, what went wrong?

[2104] It's so crazy because, first of all, everyone talks about, you know, you need to follow the roots of Jitsu.

[2105] And they talk about, you know, being humble and having respect.

[2106] It's like, you know where Brazilian Jitsu started from, right?

[2107] It started from, like, the Gracie's, like, fucking going in and beating the shit a karate instructor for fun and taking over there.

[2108] schools like what do you guys dojo storming yeah like what are you guys talking about um and you know it's just it's a group of guys and a crowd of people fighting over peanuts so there's every promoter for the most part in jih Tzu every high -level athlete for the most part in jiu -tizu are just scumbags because they're all fighting over a small amount of money and they'll do anything they can to get that small amount of money so it's like you have like 10 ,000 people fighting over a thousand dollars and everybody wants a thousand dollars to do whatever they can to get to get there um so there's a lot of scumbagery that happens you know both in competitions and both you know in negotiations on the mat off the mat so it's just uh it's it's a it's a complete opposite of what most people tell you jih Tzu is like you know you have to be hard working and be humble and respect and all this shit it's like it's bullshit most of it um so it's just funny to watch you know coming up to the ranks and seeing you know all the crazy shit that happens when people are either you know competing or or negotiating to do competitions it's just it's funny when you go back and look at the old school jiu -jitsu matches or you know just old school fights like when Hicks and Gracie fought Hugo Duarte on the beach yeah smacked him in the face and started the fight and then they're fighting on the sand yeah and then like the camera cuts out next thing you know he's on top of them like that was like that was like a normal day for those guys.

[2109] And now like I smack Andre after he like assaults me and everyone's like, Andre should sue him.

[2110] I'm like what?

[2111] Like where...

[2112] There's a video.

[2113] How do we get from here to where we are now?

[2114] It's just insane.

[2115] Right.

[2116] Well, there's a video of him pushing you first.

[2117] Yeah.

[2118] If you go back in time and compete against any jujitsu player, would it be Hickson?

[2119] No. I mean, the best Gracie by far is Hodger.

[2120] And not even compete against him.

[2121] I just want...

[2122] I've never trained with Hodger.

[2123] Hodger is by far the most accomplished Gracie as far as Jujit goes and I think that Hodger is also by far the best technically as far as not even just the Gracies but just competitors in general like Hodger went out and Hodger finished people like consistently went out and he just like he mauled people like I'm mulling people today like he just went out you know he's going to cross -collar strangle you from Mount he goes out he passes your He already mounts you when he finishes you.

[2124] Like it's just, it looked like a guy who was just far ahead of his time competing against guys from that error.

[2125] So, Hodger, someone that I really respect, and I would really love to, you know, he's retired now, but I'd love to train with him one day at least.

[2126] Yeah, is he still training on a regular basis?

[2127] A lot of these guys they get to in their later years and their bodies are so fucked up.

[2128] It's hard for them to actually train hard.

[2129] Yeah, most of the, I don't know about Hodger, but most of the competitors, even active competitors, are just fighting.

[2130] like they just they do a camp whereas like you know if you're a real martial artist like you train full time like most most of the guys that compete at the highest levels train less than some of the hobbyists I know like they do they do like four six week camps then they do an ADCC and they take two months where they just don't train it all like train not training for two months is like the most insane thing ever like this is your job like they don't treat it like a job they treat it like a hobby where they want to make money doing it but they don't actually put in work to be able to achieve the things that they want.

[2131] And maybe they win a tournament here, maybe they win an ADCC there.

[2132] But in order to make money doing Jiu -Jitsu, there's a lot more to it than just going out and winning a few tournaments.

[2133] Like, you know, you have to market yourself well.

[2134] You have to be present on social media.

[2135] You have to be able to teach people.

[2136] You have to speak well.

[2137] There's a lot more than just winning competitions.

[2138] I couldn't agree more.

[2139] And I think that your drive and your accomplishments and the excellence that you're pursuing, it doesn't just apply to Jiu -Jitsu.

[2140] I think there's a lot of people that don't even plan on doing jiu -jitsu that are going to get a lot out of this conversation.

[2141] Because I think to be a person like you, you have to be a person like you.

[2142] There's no half -step in.

[2143] There's no part -time.

[2144] It's like all or nothing.

[2145] It's all or nothing.

[2146] And look what it's accomplished for you.

[2147] I mean, it's pretty extraordinary.

[2148] And you've also set a pace and a workload that it's so daunting.

[2149] there's a lot of people that are not going to even try.

[2150] Yeah, I mean, it's hard to keep up, and that's one of the things I pride myself on the most, is that I work harder and I work smarter than all the rest of the guys.

[2151] And, you know, it shows.

[2152] And I just feel like I'm at a level now where I'm getting better faster than I ever was, and I feel like the more time that goes on, it's just going to get worse and worse for everybody.

[2153] Why are you getting better faster?

[2154] Because the more you know about the sport, the more you can understand the mechanics and the biomechanics, the easier it is to go back and fix mistakes from day to day.

[2155] Like when I was a brown belt, for example, if I had a problem from mount, I would either have to sit in the position and try to figure it out.

[2156] I'd be there for 30 minutes or an hour trying to figure out what the best options are, or I would go to John and I would ask him the question.

[2157] But now I understand how everything works.

[2158] So if I run into an issue, I can just think about, okay, what are the rational ideas I can play with here that will get me to a solution that works.

[2159] So the more you know about Jitsu, the easier it is to go back and kind of reverse engineer what issues you have and you can solve problems by yourself so that you're an independent problem solver rather than someone who just has to go and ask somebody else to question and get an answer from the guy.

[2160] So you can innovate stuff and you can create stuff on your own and you can go beyond, like John's whole thing is he wants to go beyond what he teaches us.

[2161] He doesn't want to create a bunch of robots who just try to copy what he says.

[2162] So he gives us an idea and then we run with that idea and we innovate on our own and we end up creating something completely different completely new from what he was originally showing us well whatever you do whether it's MMA or Jiu -Jitsu I'm gonna watch I appreciate you I love that there's people like you out there I think it's it's just cool as fuck I love people that are all in on anything it's hard to find authentic people now it is it's very hard and do you have a scheduled match coming up yeah So I actually have a match on this upcoming Who's Number One on Flood grappling?

[2163] It's May 28th.

[2164] They haven't released the name yet, so I'm not going to release it here.

[2165] But I do have a match coming up, and then I have a match in July, which is verbally agreed upon against an ADCC champion.

[2166] So that should be fun.

[2167] So I have a few matches coming up.

[2168] They're trying to find, I're trying to gather people to compete against me. But I have a few things coming up, and I'm excited.

[2169] I hope the guys actually sign the contracts and show up and we can have a match.

[2170] But I get a few things coming up, and then the big one's ADCC next year, obviously.

[2171] Beautiful.

[2172] Well, I can't wait for all of them.

[2173] Thanks, brother.

[2174] I appreciate you very much, man. Thanks for coming in here.

[2175] All right, bye, everybody.