Flightless Bird: Drug Rehab

[0] I'm David Farrier, a New Zealand that accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick.

[1] Now, I think all of us here on Flightless Bird, Monica Dax, Rob, watched and enjoyed a series called Dope Sick.

[2] Enjoyed might be the wrong word, but it was a really good show, well -made, great actors.

[3] Your most effective talking point are these magic words.

[4] Less than 1 % of people get addicted to toxicon.

[5] That's not possible.

[6] Based on the book of the same name by journalist Beth Macy, Dope Sick looked at the opioid epidemic that tore across America.

[7] Now, according to the CDC, since 1999, the year the Matrix came out, over 932 ,000 people have died from a drug overdose in the States.

[8] And since 1999, overdoses involving opioids have increased eight times.

[9] All of this led to a huge increase in drug rehab centers in the US, places you could go to supposedly get clean.

[10] Are you tired of drugs and alcohol ruining your life?

[11] Have you lost your job or custody of your children?

[12] Has your matter's been destroyed?

[13] Are your parents kicking you out of the house?

[14] Rewind six or seven years?

[15] Florida led America in having the most drug rehab centers per capita.

[16] One rehab for every 1 ,549 residents.

[17] That is why you need daylight, detox, and recovery.

[18] It was crazy.

[19] It was out of control.

[20] And I wanted to find out why, Florida has so many drug rehab centers, and if they're actually doing what they're meant to do.

[21] So, pack your bags and get ready to dive deep into the complexities of Florida, because this is the drug rehab episode.

[22] Flyless, flyless bird touchdown in America.

[23] I'm a flyless bird touchdown in America.

[24] Yeah, I thought of a flyless bird touchdown in America.

[25] I thought of a flightless bird touchdown in America.

[26] it was crazy not to be in Florida and look at drug rehab because I feel like when you think of Florida, I just think of sunny places you're sent to go and deal with your addiction problems.

[27] When you said we were doing an episode on this in the Florida series, I thought why.

[28] Oh really?

[29] So I didn't know that.

[30] Yeah, right.

[31] I know of some drug rehab places, facilities, but they're not in Florida.

[32] Yeah, right.

[33] So this is surprising to me that they have so many.

[34] Yeah, no, there are loads of them, and I was staying in Ponce, St. Lucie, which is about two hours north of Miami.

[35] My geography is terrible.

[36] Okay.

[37] So it's on the coast, and I just went to Google Maps, and I typed in Drug Rehab, and all around me, it was just like pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

[38] And you do the same thing in Miami, and they're everywhere.

[39] And apparently, it's just partly to do with some loose state laws at the time when all this was popping off.

[40] And also, like the exotic pets, it's sunny.

[41] and bright and marketed is this place where you send your teen who can't get off drugs, send them to Florida.

[42] Uh -huh.

[43] And so they all popped up around that.

[44] Do we have stats on the amount in Florida versus other places?

[45] I get into it a little bit in the dock.

[46] Interestingly, what I did find out is, spoiler alert, but they're a way less in Florida than they used to be, and more of them are popping up in places like Los Angeles.

[47] And a lot of the people that were doing it there have now moved to L .A. Okay.

[48] Interesting.

[49] One thing to set the scene that I did quite find sort of funny on this episode is that this whole Florida trip I was looking for places to stay and I just use Airbnb and Port St. Lucie was a place where I really fucked it all up because I went on Airbnb.

[50] I'm like looking for a place.

[51] I put in the price point I want, not too crazy cheap, not too crazy expensive.

[52] I always go super host because I figure it will be cleaner towels or something.

[53] And the image was beautiful white sand beach, a really cute looking pastoral.

[54] still colored front.

[55] Remind me like a little batch you'd get in New Zealand at the beach.

[56] Okay.

[57] Do you know the word batch?

[58] No. It's like a, do you have cribs?

[59] Yeah.

[60] Like a little holiday home, basically.

[61] Wait, cribs.

[62] The show?

[63] No. Oh.

[64] No, no. So like a batch.

[65] The baby carrying, the baby sleeping place?

[66] No. So a batch is a holiday home.

[67] By the beach, it's really cute.

[68] Oh, it's your second home and you call it a crib?

[69] Yeah, crib is more like.

[70] like, I might be giving this wrong.

[71] I'm forgetting my New Zealand roots.

[72] More a crib in the South Island.

[73] In the North Island, it's more of a batch.

[74] Oh my God.

[75] So anyway, my point is, I thought this was a beachside batch.

[76] And I'm really worried about my accent when I say all these words.

[77] So I got it.

[78] And I turn up and I drove along this causeway onto an island, Hutchinson Island.

[79] Okay.

[80] And then I drove up some more.

[81] And I arrived at what I thought was my beautiful beachside vacation house and it was a reclaimed built -up fortress that came up out of the water that was basically like an elevated caravan park and that beautiful thing I thought was a batch was a caravan or an RV that had been made permanent what do you call those you know a trailer park it was a trailer park and the little white beach that I thought was outside the front because I pictured waking up open the blinds like stretch and wandered on to the water instead there was just a wall that dropped into like a disgusting ocean I only stayed there for one night and the little white sand beach was a private members only thing that you could drive to that I didn't have access to I bought the brochure this is a place so see that image of on the front of the cover oh my god David you fell for this yeah this is obviously a paint you know paint on yeah emus paint yes someone drew this on paint Oh, my God.

[82] So that's where I stayed and it was a real mayor, Monica.

[83] I mean, it's great to have like affordable housing.

[84] That's wonderful.

[85] But it just wasn't the image I had of where I was going.

[86] And that combined with the toilet air freshen and kind of smell.

[87] My trailer was also sort of designed to look like I was on a boat.

[88] So all the windows were kind of round.

[89] Like I was on like a cruise ship or something.

[90] The population was definitely over the age of 60 that moved there.

[91] competing with the villages.

[92] It's trying to be the villages.

[93] I guess I'm like setting the scene for this weird little place I was at while I was doing this drug rehab episode.

[94] I was feeling a bit unhinged.

[95] Yeah.

[96] I find this topic very heavy, but it's very interesting to me because I had a friend, not Dax, people will probably jump to conclusions, not him, who went to a rehab not that long ago.

[97] And the one he went to is.

[98] so nice, so expensive.

[99] There are some that are really fancy and ride like horses on the beach, like things like that.

[100] Like the most idyllic, like a spa.

[101] Well, I mean, the cynical part of me is like, obviously, if you've got money, they want it.

[102] And the other thing is if it's nice, you won't leave and your brain will go, I do want to be healthy.

[103] I do want to stay in this paradise.

[104] Is that part of it?

[105] Just selling it to you?

[106] No, it's not a place you can't leave.

[107] You have to leave.

[108] You want to stay to get better.

[109] Oh, I see.

[110] I see what you're saying.

[111] You're not like, I don't want to bust out of here.

[112] Yeah.

[113] You're like, wow, I feel terrible because I'm coming off whatever, but also I feel great about my life right now because I'm surrounded by beauty.

[114] Right.

[115] I do think it's probably the best shot at that.

[116] But I did think nobody can afford this.

[117] nobody can afford this.

[118] The percentage is so tiny.

[119] And what about all these people who have drug problems and can't afford this?

[120] Totally.

[121] It feels kind of crazy.

[122] It's like there's this echelon of rich addicts and then poor addicts, you know, and it's all.

[123] Very different.

[124] And, yeah, one has access to all this incredible stuff.

[125] And also if you have insurance, because that's what sort of get into a little bit in the dock, there's this relationship between these rehab centers and the insurers who they want customers to come in basically.

[126] It's the same disease and you see it.

[127] They have the same disease as the person outside on the street right now.

[128] 100 % same thing.

[129] They just have like very different access to how they can potentially help themselves.

[130] How did your friend, was it this particular base helpful for them?

[131] It was.

[132] It was.

[133] Right.

[134] Yeah.

[135] That's good they had access to it.

[136] I know.

[137] Of course, when it's someone in your life, you feel grateful that that exists and that there is access and they have people in their lives who can help them, but it just does make me think about all of these people who don't.

[138] Yeah, who have nothing at all.

[139] Yeah, it's insane.

[140] Yeah.

[141] So I wanted to sort of look into this a bit more specifically in Florida.

[142] The setting is I'm in this horrible trailer, stinks like air freshener.

[143] I feel like I'm going a bit unhinged, and that's where I started my journey.

[144] Earlier this year, I stumbled on a movie from 2021 called body brokers.

[145] Since 2008, every healthcare provider needs to cover substance abuse treatment.

[146] This is what we in the treatment industry call a gold rush.

[147] It was trying to be an Adam McKay big short style thing and it didn't quite work, but it was a fascinating take on the multi -billion dollar industry based around helping drug users get clean.

[148] The image that film painted was of a corrupt system where everyone was cashing in, from doctors to therapists to pharmaceutical companies, and then the detox and rehab centers too.

[149] With that topic buzzing around in my brain, my original plan was to visit a drug rehab center in Florida to get their take on how they were doing.

[150] But that proved challenging.

[151] Let's try some drug rehab centers.

[152] Okay, that one doesn't exist anymore.

[153] I tried another one called Recovery by the Sea.

[154] Thank you for calling Recovery by the Sea.

[155] Please listen carefully as some of our menu options have changed.

[156] If you'd like to reach admissions, please press one.

[157] Just an endless dial tone.

[158] It was mostly dial tone.

[159] Numbers to nowhere.

[160] Your call cannot be completed as dialed.

[161] Please check the number and dial again.

[162] Sometimes I'd get through.

[163] And it would be endless extensions.

[164] You're going to push extension 1 -66, okay?

[165] That led nowhere.

[166] Your name is?

[167] No callbacks, no nothing.

[168] I gave up.

[169] Well, that took a very long time, and I got nowhere.

[170] I wondered what was going on.

[171] Had many of these centres closed down?

[172] And if so, why?

[173] Or did they just not want to talk to me?

[174] Maybe it was a combo of both.

[175] Also, the more I thought about this topic of drug rehab, the less confident I was in talking about it.

[176] I don't really know much about drugs.

[177] And while I've tried a few naughty drugs in my time on planet Earth, I'm too scared to talk about it here in America on a podcast because I'm convinced America will send me to prison.

[178] America might love guns, but it hates drugs.

[179] I've listened to Reagan.

[180] I know how you feel.

[181] Drugs are menacing our society.

[182] They're threatening our values and undercutting our institutions.

[183] They're killing our children.

[184] With all this firmly in mind, I decided a good way to tackle this topic of drug rehab was to go directly to the source, to people who'd been to a drug rehab center here in Florida.

[185] So after a load of emails, calls, and explaining what I was up to, I ended up in the outside courtyard of a Starbucks coffee shop at 8 p .m. How American a location is that?

[186] Just tell me your name and what you do.

[187] Jessica, I'm a dog groomer.

[188] Please tell me some of the secrets of dog grooming.

[189] What makes a good dog groomer?

[190] So, patience, a lot of patience.

[191] Dogs, they don't exactly love being groomed.

[192] It's not their favorite thing to do.

[193] Touching their feet and getting a bath with the water and everything.

[194] So, yeah, it takes a lot of patience and love for the animals.

[195] You've got to really love them.

[196] Jessica says that doodles and schnauzers are the most difficult dogs to groom.

[197] Doodles because of the coat and schnauzers because of their personality.

[198] Dog people don't come for me. I'm merely passing on what I've learned.

[199] But I'm not here to talk dogs.

[200] I'm here to talk drugs, drug detox and rehab centers to be precise.

[201] And Jess knows what she's talking about.

[202] Yeah, so I've been to several of them.

[203] So I'm a drug addict and an alcoholic.

[204] I've been sober six and a half years.

[205] Congrats.

[206] Thank you.

[207] So I came down here in 2014.

[208] I went to a detox.

[209] I was staying back at my parents' house and they were like, you got to go.

[210] What were you addicted to?

[211] What was going on in your life?

[212] Heroin, Xanax, meth, all the drugs, pretty much.

[213] Yeah, alcohol.

[214] You went all in?

[215] Yeah, I love it all.

[216] Jessica may have loved the drugs, but her parents did not.

[217] And one day they told her to pack seven days' worth of clothes because she was off to Florida.

[218] But not to the beach or a theme park.

[219] She'd been enrolled in a detox center.

[220] Because she was under 26, her parents' insurance covered it all.

[221] Were you happy to be there?

[222] Were you like, this is what I need to do?

[223] Or is it more your parents giving you an ultimatum of you must do this?

[224] I think it was both.

[225] So before my parents told me that, I was.

[226] like I would totally go to rehab if somebody like offered it to me because I didn't want to live like that anymore but like once you get there and like reality hits you that you're never going to be able to get high again it's awful it's crippling and it's really depressing it's basically like breaking up with your lover that you've had for the past 10 years you know so it's like really heartbreaking to say goodbye to that whole part of your life and like I didn't know how to live any other way.

[227] I'd been getting fucked up for 10 years.

[228] I didn't know how to do anything else.

[229] So it was really scary too.

[230] Scary because she'd tried to get clean earlier.

[231] Before the detox, she'd tried to kick the heroin by seeing a doctor who prescribed her something called Suboxin.

[232] So Suboxin is a drug that, okay, how do I explain this?

[233] It's basically to like substitute for like heroin and it blocks the opiate receptors in your brain.

[234] So that way you can't get out.

[235] high on heroin.

[236] You're not dope sick when you're on suboxin, but you're not getting fucked up.

[237] It's just like to make you feel normal.

[238] It turns out that before her parents sent her to Florida for a detox, she had tried suboxin.

[239] I had been seeing a suboxin doctor.

[240] Okay, this is like a whole other thing.

[241] A can of worms has just been opened.

[242] Yes.

[243] So I was seeing him for like seven or eight months and he was prescribing me suboxin.

[244] And meanwhile, I was still getting fucked up on like crack, alcohol, Xanax, because you can do all the other drugs, you just can't do dope.

[245] Did he cotton onto it, that you were high as a buddy kite?

[246] No, and then...

[247] You're not a very good doctor?

[248] No, or he just didn't care.

[249] Yeah, he just didn't care because they were getting their insurance money or whatever.

[250] One day, that particular doctor wasn't in, so she saw another doctor who drug tested her, and the jig was up.

[251] No more Suboxin until she got clean from all the other stuff, which is a problem because she liked the Suboxin by now, plus she was also splitting it with her boyfriend to sell.

[252] All that led her parents to ship her off to Florida.

[253] She did her 30 days and was then sent to a sober living facility.

[254] In her case, an apartment building where she did outpatient therapy.

[255] If you relapsed, they would lock you in an apartment for three days with no phone, no TV.

[256] They gave you seven movies.

[257] One of them was a pursuit of happiness.

[258] Don't ever let somebody tell you You can't do something Not even me All right All right The sober living facility Nor Will Smith's acting Helped in this case And she ended up doing a series of rehab and detox centers Her parents' insurance paying for it all It was why it was good that I got sober Before I turned 26 Because that's when My insurance cut off With my parents There's a lot of people down here Who ride that wave until they're 26.

[259] They just...

[260] Yeah, it's called the Florida Shuffle.

[261] And they just go from treatment center to treatment center to treatment center to treatment center.

[262] Because, I mean, you get like three hots and a cop.

[263] And then a lot of places you can get fucked up in between.

[264] Eventually, her Florida Shuffle slowed and came to a stop.

[265] She got sober and stayed sober.

[266] She says getting involved in a 12 -step program was everything for her.

[267] It was a community and support.

[268] She didn't know how to be an adult.

[269] and so she got help with her grocery shopping and cooking from new friends she had made in the program.

[270] Now, as I'd gone to get another flat white from Starbucks, that's a type of very dairy -fueled coffee popular in New Zealand, Jessica's friend had joined us.

[271] So I did not get sober until I was 40, so I have been to treatment centers all over the United States.

[272] She had experienced the Florida Shuffle 2, going to her first detox center when she was 26.

[273] She was a regular customer.

[274] Treatment isn't there to get anybody sober.

[275] It's just there to get you detoxed and get you more comfortable and get back into life.

[276] Like, you've got to do something afterwards.

[277] So I've been to really bad ones.

[278] I've been to really great ones.

[279] And I honestly think it's almost sometimes the people that work there that make the difference.

[280] Like Jessica, her story also ended happily.

[281] She's alive and drug -free and at Starbucks.

[282] But I take this life over any other life, any day.

[283] I have grandkids and I got to be at all their births.

[284] I got, you know, like my son was in the Army and I got to go to his graduation.

[285] You know what I mean?

[286] Like, I would have never showed up before.

[287] Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird.

[288] We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

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[333] See, they were pretty amazing.

[334] It's funny interviewing people, talking to someone about like an exotic snake or something, that's one thing.

[335] And then sitting in a Starbucks late at night and people, both women, were just so open.

[336] It's a privilege, and it's also just a lot.

[337] It is.

[338] It is both things.

[339] I think you're right.

[340] And I do think for many addicts, they do feel really comfortable.

[341] If they've had some time of sobriety, yeah, I do find that they are open to talk about it and kind of help.

[342] Like, I think they just recognize how difficult the process is and if they could ever be helpful.

[343] I find that many are open to doing so.

[344] So addiction is so sad.

[345] I mean, that's the other thing I felt lucky talking to them.

[346] And I guess it's the same with, you've talked with Dax about it so much.

[347] But like, I feel like I'm being led into this world.

[348] And it's a world that if you don't have it, you'll never fully grasp it, right?

[349] I've never been addicted to anything.

[350] And so it's just this thing that you have where you don't have.

[351] And it's this thing you live with.

[352] And both these people still live with it.

[353] Exactly.

[354] They're aware of it.

[355] But the 12 -step program obviously is a huge thing.

[356] I talked to a few other people, you don't hear their voices, but they all talked about the 12th step being everything because it's people.

[357] And yeah, when these people came out of it, they didn't know how to cook or shop or sort of doing a thing.

[358] And that was a support system around them there.

[359] And that's isolating, which then leads to wanting the quick fix.

[360] So it's this bizarre cycle, which I do think AA does provide this amazing community for people to ask for help and not.

[361] feel judged at all.

[362] It just seems so much in America, it's very easy to drop through the cracks.

[363] And like that doctor that prescribed her suboxin, you know, obviously haven't got their side of things, but it didn't sound like a great doctor and was completely unaware of what else she was on.

[364] Yeah.

[365] And yeah, it's just a strange thing.

[366] And then getting into this Florida shuffle where essentially, and that's what they were talked about, the Florida shuffle, just basically being taken care of in a facility, but Then you leave high again, but then you can just go to another one.

[367] Right.

[368] And these facilities, which is what I get into in part two, are all obviously just being supported by the insurance companies.

[369] And it just goes around in this big kind of circle.

[370] Do we have some numbers of costs if you're not covered?

[371] Oh, I don't.

[372] You wouldn't be going there unless you've got insurance.

[373] It's just not an option.

[374] It's like you've got to tap into that world or you're not.

[375] Or you go to a private institution, which is like where your friend went.

[376] Yes.

[377] And from what I can tell, they don't.

[378] don't exactly come cheap, you know?

[379] No, no, no. I should know about this, but I don't.

[380] But I imagine there are, surely in some states, some, like, publicly funded places you can get help.

[381] Right.

[382] But going on the state of America, I think any of them would be completely slammed and just not even an option for most people, because the problem's so big, right?

[383] Looks like an inpatient rehab typically costs about $6 ,000 for a 30 -day program.

[384] Well -known centers often cost up to $20 ,000 for a 30 -day program.

[385] anywhere from $12 ,000 to $60 ,000.

[386] It's so much money.

[387] It's nuts.

[388] Okay, so I talked to one other person that sort of talked about how bleak this world can kind of get.

[389] There was a newspaper headline I read back in 2017 that stuck with me. Florida's billion -dollar drug treatment industry is plagued by overdoses and fraud.

[390] The report wrote about Florida's Palm Beach County, saying, Thousands of addicts arrive here each year from Ohio and West Virginia, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, hoping that at one of South Florida's many drug treatment centers, they'll find recovery.

[391] But an investigation has found that many of those vulnerable patients have become grist in an insurance fraud mill.

[392] Crooked Treatment Centers partner with body brokers and operators of so -called sober homes to find patients with good health insurance.

[393] Brokers and sober homeowners offer those trying to get clean free rent and grocery store gift cards.

[394] cigarettes and manicures, in exchange for going to a specific treatment center.

[395] Now, Jessica and her friend had already told me about that Florida shuffle, patients just going from detox to detox, rehab to rehab.

[396] But I wondered if she'd heard about the body -broker phenomenon during that time in rehab.

[397] Turns out they had.

[398] My best friend, Katie, she came down here to Florida for treatment, and there was a guy in there, and he was like, if you leave with me, I'll give you $3 ,000 and then we can go get high, get fucked up, whatever, and then you can go back into my treatment facility, like the one that he works for.

[399] They were like implanting people into treatment facilities just to like poach people who had good insurance and they would get like a kickback from the facility that they were taking them to.

[400] Jessica tells me I should talk to someone else about this too, someone who knew this side of things better than her.

[401] My name is Tim, and I've been in Florida since about 2014, and right now I'm working for a medical billing company.

[402] What bought you to Florida?

[403] I got gifted a one -way ticket with my family telling me not to call them for 90 days, and one month of a halfway house paid for me, and then I had to figure it out after that.

[404] Tim told a familiar story, in and out of various rehabs.

[405] His last stint was just last year.

[406] It was strange talking to him because I was sort of worried and talking about drugs with him and somehow send him back into it.

[407] But he said he was fine to talk and like Jessica had good people around him.

[408] There was a lot of what they call patient brokering.

[409] Just an easy example of you worked at a treatment center and I was relapsing and you had my phone number and you said come to treatment, I'll buy cigarettes for you the whole time.

[410] And then you as the person that worked at the treatment center, which we would call marketer, We get a cut of my insurance payments from the treatment center because you're getting me in and they're getting you money.

[411] So that's how you make your commission.

[412] Yeah.

[413] Did that happen to people that you knew?

[414] It did.

[415] And another quick example is me saying I want to go back out.

[416] I'm really going to relapse and telling people.

[417] And then finally I have a marketer say, hey, if you really want to go out that bad, you know, do it, quote unquote, safely.

[418] And I'll give you $500 and then call me in a week.

[419] And then we'll get you back into treatment.

[420] People would get manipulated into doing that.

[421] Six years ago, things were at peak bad.

[422] As America's opioid crisis grew, South Florida's rehab scene was booming.

[423] People came for the sun and the treatment centers, which were becoming increasingly corrupt.

[424] A state attorney at the time who was prosecuting some dodgy rehab said, there's no incentive in sobriety, the money's all in relapse.

[425] People were getting handed money to go buy drugs and then they were starting to OD or they were in half, halfway houses and they were paying their rent, but the owner of the house knew that they were getting high, but they're paying their rent so they can stay.

[426] And then someone who wasn't paying their rent and actually working a program, but not able to afford rent that week would get kicked out.

[427] And then people in halfway houses started to die in that 2017, 18.

[428] And then that's when the feds really had to step in and a lot of places got raided.

[429] The government got in a place and it was just wild.

[430] The owner of one rehab back then was arrested after billing nearly $60 million to various insurance companies, arrested on federal charges, he'd been offering free rent to addicts, making money as long as they were getting treatment.

[431] Stories like this littered the news in 2017 and 2018.

[432] Taking advantage of addicts as the opioid epidemic continues to ravage southern New England.

[433] Massachusetts Attorney General Morahili is warning of a scam and scam treatment centers in Florida.

[434] The warning comes after several people overdosed at these facilities.

[435] Tim tells me from what he's observed here in Florida, things have changed for the better.

[436] The authorities have cleaned things up somewhat.

[437] Most of the rehab centers that remain in Florida have cleaned up their act.

[438] Loopholes have been tightened.

[439] I think the recovery community around here and in South Florida has gotten much better than what it was, say, in 2017 -18.

[440] I guess it explains why some of those numbers were disconnected, rings that went nowhere.

[441] They were the bad ones, and a lot of them are gone.

[442] which is not to say the problem isn't moving elsewhere.

[443] As I carry on my Florida roadie, which is what we call road trips in New Zealand, I read a headline from November last year in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

[444] In New Jersey, investigators say they're uncovering abuse in the state's booming rehab industry.

[445] Addiction recovery is a massive business with little regulation, the article went on to say.

[446] It all sounded very, very familiar.

[447] So you essentially, dodgy operators have just sort of moved elsewhere in there just doing their thing.

[448] And it's tied up, obviously, with the insurance industry here, which is another big business.

[449] And the pharmaceutical.

[450] I mean, it's like all three of these.

[451] Just bleak, I don't even know what to add to this.

[452] It's just pretty bleak out there.

[453] It is, and it's so heartbreaking because to know the level of vulnerability they're praying on is so evil.

[454] How can they sleep at night?

[455] Yeah, billing millions and millions.

[456] to these insurance companies and just keeping them people in there so that you can build that amount.

[457] Yeah, it's rough.

[458] And the person calling to say, hey, it's fine, I'll get you this if you come back here.

[459] And they also might have been at it.

[460] You know, I'm trying to maybe find some level of compassion.

[461] Maybe those people themselves were addicts and need the money or anyone who needs the money and feels desperate.

[462] You end up just doing these awful awful things.

[463] And you're timid bounce around different places.

[464] and done that.

[465] He was, out of all three people I spoke to for this story, he had been sober the least, so he was fresh to all this.

[466] And it is this weird thing we're having these conversations, and you're like, oh, God, just please stay sober because, and he's really, like, long form running now.

[467] But he showed me some photos on the phone of when his body, I mean, he overdid in an insane way, and his friends took him to the hospital, and he had parts of his body that were rotting, the needle sites.

[468] And again, it's that level of openness.

[469] Most people, when they show you photos and they want you to see their best selves, and he's like, here's me at my absolute worst, and this is what it's like.

[470] And it was, yeah, it's pretty confronting.

[471] Well, sending him really positive vibes.

[472] Yeah, big time.

[473] Yeah, yeah, they were all pretty wonderful.

[474] And, yeah, all had a very surreal conversation mall at a Starbucks.

[475] Yes.

[476] Just getting that late -night coffee.

[477] It was a very surreal place to be.

[478] I'm impressed by anyone who can do it.

[479] I really am.

[480] Totally.

[481] It's incredible.

[482] And they all had each other's backs, which is cool.

[483] be of Florida.

[484] What a stage.

[485] Florida, you did it all.

[486] I did all the things.

[487] I survived.

[488] I came back.

[489] I really like Florida.

[490] It's a bit of a mess, but I enjoyed it.

[491] It's such a fun microcosm there.

[492] And you really tapped into a lot of the good spots.

[493] Everglades, Gladesman, a lot of animals, a lot of animal content.

[494] World's largest retirement village, 120 ,000 old people, Epcot.

[495] What a place.

[496] What a place And I think I've definitely Become more American I would argue a lot out to Florida I think it's one thing to be in Los Angeles It's another thing to be In the middle of a swamp in the Everglades Yes I think you could never really call yourself American If you haven't been to Florida Completely So you at least check that box off I think deep into the heart of Texas Is the next plan And that'll just further solidify things The Capitol The big old sea.

[497] You were there recently, right?

[498] I was, yeah.

[499] Do you like it?

[500] It's a great city, yeah.

[501] I picture a lot of people in suits walking around.

[502] I loved it.

[503] I think I said already, but I really loved that it was an industry town that I wasn't, an industry I wasn't in.

[504] So I could really observe in a way that you, you know, this is an industry town here in L .A., but I am in that industry.

[505] This is a whole other thing.

[506] I'm immersed.

[507] I want to see all the monuments.

[508] I want to see the White House.

[509] There's a lot to do.

[510] They've got the big statues and the men, don't they?

[511] And the steps.

[512] A lot of flags flying.

[513] Are you talking about Mount Rushmore?

[514] Mount Rushmore is not in D .C. Where's Mount Rushmore?

[515] It's in Wyoming or North Dakota or something?

[516] The big faces.

[517] Yeah, that was a funny thing to do.

[518] That's American, isn't it?

[519] It should go there.

[520] It's in South Dakota.

[521] South Dakota.

[522] Yeah.

[523] All right.

[524] Well, Florida was great.

[525] And thanks for taking us through.

[526] Thanks for coming on this trip.

[527] Thanks for putting up with all the animals.

[528] And I think it's just nice to be reminded that America is vast and insane and wild and good and bad and wonderful and terrible all at the same time.

[529] All of it.

[530] Yeah.

[531] Love it.

[532] Bye guys.

[533] Bye.