Lauren Graham

[0] Hi, welcome to the armchair expert.

[1] Today is a big treat by popular demand and just my own selfish desires.

[2] Lauren Graham's going to join us.

[3] She is, I guess I'll say I'm her TV brother, not she's my TV sister.

[4] I should give her the status position as it's well deserved.

[5] She probably was most known from Gilmore Girls.

[6] You know her from there.

[7] She's Lorelai.

[8] My brother's in love with her.

[9] I think to this day, he still is in love with her.

[10] And we spent six glorious years.

[11] together on parenthood.

[12] In addition to her being an amazing actress, she is also a thrice time published author, I believe, in her current book is called Monica.

[13] In conclusion, don't worry about it.

[14] And when does that come out?

[15] Today.

[16] Today.

[17] In conclusion, don't worry about it.

[18] It comes out today.

[19] So sprint out to your Barnes & Noble, Amazon .com.

[20] You don't have to sprint to Amazon, but you know what we're saying.

[21] Sprint to your computer.

[22] Check this book out.

[23] She's a hell of a writer.

[24] She's just all around a extremely intelligent, thoughtful, wonderful woman that I am grateful to know.

[25] And I hope you enjoy it.

[26] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[27] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[28] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[29] I'm going to be your podcast.

[30] I hope you didn't have anybody else booked because I'm going to...

[31] No, no. Well, we did, but we can easily cancel that.

[32] Okay, good.

[33] But yes, welcome to my attic in my construction zone.

[34] I love it.

[35] Yeah.

[36] It kind of makes me think of like movies where it's set in Vietnam, but then they go into the General's tent and there's like candles lit and it's kind of nice.

[37] I feel like we're in this little oasis among a lot of pounding and drilling.

[38] I mean, I've been there, so I just, I completely relate to the construction situation.

[39] Oh, this is what I dreaded.

[40] I look so bad right now.

[41] You look so beautiful as you always do.

[42] There's a man trying to take a candid photo.

[43] You could be in a sleeping bag and your personality would be bursting through the zipper.

[44] I essentially am in the sleeping bag.

[45] I'm on the way to the barbershop.

[46] Yeah.

[47] You're getting your hair done.

[48] Yeah.

[49] What's that process like?

[50] It's so many hours.

[51] It's so many people.

[52] It's so many hours to make me look exactly the same.

[53] No, I have a colorist who I love named Sean Metcalf.

[54] But just to get brown.

[55] They take you to platinum and then build you back up.

[56] Exactly right.

[57] Exactly right.

[58] It's a lot of, you know, wiggery.

[59] No, it just takes a long time and I have to do it all time.

[60] And what is a long time?

[61] A couple hours?

[62] It is.

[63] And that's like without, this is, I hope, can we just talk about hair the whole time?

[64] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[65] Well, that's one of the main focuses of the podcast.

[66] It was totally lacking in the marketplace.

[67] Yes.

[68] That's true.

[69] Although, now that I say that, I have to assume that Chaz whatever has a podcast.

[70] Oh, he probably does.

[71] Because he's got billboards everywhere.

[72] Chaz Dean.

[73] Chaz Dean.

[74] You know, I run into, he doesn't know me, but I run into Jeff.

[75] What's his name?

[76] Who I love, who does that show, the flipping out show.

[77] Okay.

[78] What's his name?

[79] I don't know.

[80] Jeff, Jeff Bridges.

[81] Yes, Jeff Bezos.

[82] Am I getting close?

[83] I'm going to think of his last name.

[84] Okay.

[85] But he has no, he's not friends with Chas Dean, is he?

[86] Chas Dean is like a recurring character on this show because Jeff redos his studio.

[87] And then for one reason or another, like once one burned down, once there is a flood, like it's almost like they're looking for reasons to have Chaz Dean back on the show.

[88] So he just keeps redo.

[89] I think he moved once.

[90] Like he's, he's always on the show.

[91] Okay.

[92] So, Chaz Dean, if you don't know, he makes a hair product when?

[93] Yes.

[94] Is that what it is?

[95] And I don't know if that's popular countrywide.

[96] They sell it on QVC and stuff.

[97] It's like a non -laddering shampoo.

[98] Right.

[99] It's a great product.

[100] This is nothing to say anything about the product.

[101] no, what we did is we just got rid of Purt being a sponsor.

[102] Oh.

[103] Because we're talking so much about Chaz -D.

[104] Was Purt a sponsor?

[105] No, but we just got rid of that option.

[106] Everyone's a possible sponsor.

[107] But back to Chas Dean, he has a lot of billboards here in Los Angeles that just has his face on it.

[108] Yeah.

[109] It looks like me and Seth Green had a child.

[110] Wow, that's kind of true.

[111] He weirdly is like a cross -pollination of Seth Green and I. But you're a cross -pollination of so many things people.

[112] Zach Brow.

[113] Yes, and whoever.

[114] Yeah.

[115] And name like a stud.

[116] Brad Pitt.

[117] I find when people.

[118] I think Zach Brough is studling.

[119] Zach Graff and Brad Pitt.

[120] That is true.

[121] Yeah.

[122] That is possible.

[123] That's it?

[124] Yeah.

[125] Oh, wow.

[126] I'll take it.

[127] I think that's nice, yeah.

[128] A big dose of creative and then legendary sex symbol status.

[129] Sure, sure.

[130] Wait, real quick.

[131] Chastine, it's more, the billboards are more than just his face.

[132] He's, you see his body and he's wearing two vests or two ties or two jackets.

[133] There's one thing that he's wearing two of.

[134] It's so disturbing.

[135] It's.

[136] It's.

[137] When you look at it at high speed, you got to think like, what was he wearing two of?

[138] He had two glasses on, I think.

[139] No, he had two neckties.

[140] But only in Los Angeles.

[141] Is there a possibility that your trainer, your hair person may in your lifetime become more famous than you?

[142] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[143] Like, I've been bumped by makeup artists who are just too famous to do that me. You didn't make the cut anymore.

[144] No, uh -uh.

[145] Yeah.

[146] The guy who I bought Kristen's engagement ring off of is now that.

[147] He's a national celebrity.

[148] And I think he's a spokesman for like K Jewel or something.

[149] Neil Lane.

[150] Oh, yeah.

[151] Do you know him?

[152] Well, everyone knows Neil Lane.

[153] I don't know him personally, but that's not like the same thing.

[154] He was already, he was like a famous jeweler.

[155] What do you mean?

[156] You bought the ring off of him.

[157] It sounds like he pulled a guy over on the side of the road.

[158] I met him behind Arby's.

[159] You know there's Arby's on sunset in the alley.

[160] Arby's on like Rodeo Drive.

[161] Neil Lane's got like a very swing situation.

[162] Yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply I discovered him.

[163] He certainly was an existing Beverly Hills.

[164] Right.

[165] Fancy pants.

[166] But now he has commercials.

[167] Yeah.

[168] Now he's nationwide.

[169] Yeah.

[170] But so are you.

[171] Okay.

[172] So I guess I'm keeping.

[173] Pace with Neil Lane.

[174] Yeah, exactly.

[175] I'm in a shootout with Neil.

[176] But he's representing, you know, a mall jewelry store now, right?

[177] Yes.

[178] Is that?

[179] I think so.

[180] I think, yeah.

[181] I've only been to a jeweler's.

[182] Another sponsor.

[183] Every wish becomes a key.

[184] I don't even know the words, but that's the jingle, right?

[185] Lauren, what's really fun about this is I often have friends on and then I read about them.

[186] And then there's all the stuff that even in 10 years of friendship I had no idea about.

[187] And then it's kind of fun for me. One of them is that you're born in Hawaii.

[188] Correct.

[189] This makes zero sense.

[190] Yes.

[191] Because I think of you as a Virginian.

[192] Yes.

[193] Well, I was mainly raised in Virginia, but the first couple of years were colorful.

[194] My dad took an aptitude test when he was in maybe the first year of law school.

[195] And the only language he'd ever taken was Latin.

[196] And for some reason, he, like, responded to a sort of thing on a, on a, bulletin board, which was test your aptitude to learn Vietnamese, which a very tonal, very complicated language.

[197] And he took this test and scored very high and kind of put that together with, I'm sure, some feelings of, I don't know if it's guilt or, you know, the Vietnam War was going on at the time.

[198] It was 1966.

[199] It was the height of everything.

[200] And he was in school and married.

[201] So he wasn't going to be drafted, but I think he felt compelled to help in some way.

[202] So So he went to work for an organization called AID, which is aid to internationals in distress, which is a division.

[203] AID.

[204] It became unfortunate.

[205] It became something else.

[206] Yes.

[207] I was like, wait, he started an umbrella company, herpes.

[208] You got to remember, this was long before herpes was discovered.

[209] Yes.

[210] So it was, well, it's that maybe why they referred to it as AID and not AED.

[211] But he went to the sunglass company, sickle cell anemia.

[212] They were, they were the most fashion.

[213] sign glasses.

[214] That reminds me for some reason of one of my favorite stories about Matthew Perry, which I can never tell properly.

[215] But I did a movie with Greg Kinnear about the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper.

[216] Yes.

[217] That our friend directed.

[218] Flash of genius that our friend directed.

[219] Mark Abraham, who I love.

[220] I had also done a movie with Matthew that year.

[221] And we were both in Sundance.

[222] So we did our press together.

[223] And every time somebody would ask me about the movie about the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper.

[224] And then they'd say to Matthew, you know, what are you working on?

[225] He's like, it's so weird, because I'm working on.

[226] Then you know that little hole on this is that you put your shoe lace through on the shoe.

[227] It's the guy who invented that.

[228] And like throughout the day, he just kept making up like more random things to be.

[229] A more boring biopic, first human to every yon.

[230] But it's one of those things that it's so particular to his sense of humor.

[231] But like, I must think of it like once a week.

[232] I laughed so hard.

[233] And that's what sickle cell end up is making me think of.

[234] Yes.

[235] So anyway, my dad went to Vietnam, but on his way, he had a three -month intensive language school in Honolulu, Hawaii.

[236] Because the Navy was doing it.

[237] Is that why?

[238] Because there's a Navy base there, obviously, right?

[239] Pearl Harbor.

[240] I don't know why there in particular wasn't, you know, AID.

[241] Was it military related, though?

[242] Well, AID is an offshoot of the CIA, which over the years, I know.

[243] And there were some embedded spies.

[244] So, which is another thing that to me is hilarious because my father is well known for like putting like cameras and coffee mugs and like glasses on top of the car and like driving away.

[245] And like we have never, I never owned a house key because everybody lost their keys all the time.

[246] So we just ended up, we'd leave the cars open.

[247] We'd leave the door open.

[248] So the idea that like it's, it could be like a sitcom on ABC.

[249] It's like, the most forgetful guy in America is also their top stuff.

[250] By the way, sold.

[251] Yeah, I'm in.

[252] So that's why I was born in Hawaii.

[253] But I was only there for three weeks.

[254] And then my dad left for Vietnam.

[255] And my mom and I went back to Japan, which is where she had lived for many, many years.

[256] Her parents were missionaries?

[257] Yes, her parents were missionaries.

[258] That sounds like it's out of an 18th century storybook.

[259] That doesn't sound possible.

[260] They were pioneers, you know, and there weren't many people.

[261] trying to convert the Japanese into being Southern Baptist.

[262] It's so weird.

[263] I know.

[264] And it didn't totally catch on.

[265] But my grandparents did start a church that still exists in Sendai, Japan.

[266] Were they in any way related to the military?

[267] Because there was also all these people that stayed there after World War II, right?

[268] There's a huge American.

[269] It was just part of the Baptist Church outreach.

[270] My grandparents were Southern Baptist.

[271] Oh, really?

[272] Yeah, yeah.

[273] Even though we were in Michigan.

[274] they still were Southern Baptist and my brother and I went.

[275] And the only thing that made it tolerable is that occasionally you got to yell amen.

[276] Right.

[277] It was always very delayed.

[278] Like we were waiting for a few adults to do it.

[279] And then my brother and I would do it.

[280] And then my Papa Bob would like pinch us really hard.

[281] Oh.

[282] Because once we started the amen's of almost any sentence warrants it an amen in our opinion.

[283] Well, I mainly grew up with my dad who was raised Catholic and my dad's like the quietest man and the Catholic church you do not yell amen so then i'd go and you know my grandfather was also a pretty mellow guy except when he was up preaching and then fire and brinstone caught the spirit and um and so you never spoke in tongues did he no he no i know so close i'm looking for one degree of separation from someone who speaks in tongue oh i'm sure you can find them you don't see that anymore it's just not as popular as you want and i hate that it's relegated only to the church i would love to be at the McDonald's drives through and the person's like, let me just read this back to you.

[284] That's a big man with extra sauce, extra cheese.

[285] I don't know what's the concept behind speaking in tongues again?

[286] I think the Lord is speaking through you.

[287] Again, I don't know fucking a thing about it.

[288] But luckily, Monica fact checks us.

[289] Oh, really?

[290] Because invariably, I'll spout a bunch of data that I learned 20 years ago.

[291] And so it's probably not correct.

[292] And then she will - What data are you spouting?

[293] Oh, just stick around.

[294] I'll be nailing you with like the distance between.

[295] here in the sun, 93 million miles, or here in the moon, 180 ,000 miles.

[296] Peter knows all that stuff.

[297] Yeah, he and I often like to get in just a number off.

[298] Yeah.

[299] Or we'll just, he says a number and I respond with another number.

[300] But I do believe it is that the Lord is speaking through you.

[301] And then, of course, he doesn't speak English.

[302] He doesn't want to be.

[303] So obvious.

[304] He doesn't want to tip his hand to who he likes the most.

[305] I mean, I think it would be English.

[306] Right.

[307] Just given the tradition of it.

[308] But it's a nonsensical language that we have left to us to decipher.

[309] It's too powerful.

[310] We already have that.

[311] And father, I bet your father would have tested really high phonetically.

[312] Yes, exactly right.

[313] That part of the story in my own life has always been glossed over.

[314] Like, what, first of all, what is that test?

[315] That test your ability to learn to speak Vietnamese.

[316] Without knowing it.

[317] Like, I guess there's noises that they make.

[318] Yeah, but I don't remember being an oral of test.

[319] But I went to, I've been to Vietnam with my dad.

[320] We did a bike trip there and he can still speak.

[321] He speaks to the kids.

[322] kids, yeah, and people are shocked.

[323] And what's interesting is I knew you had gone on that trip with your father because you did it in the hiatus of one of our seasons, like between four and five or something.

[324] What was he doing there with his new Vietnamese?

[325] So they...

[326] I'm not even pronouncing that.

[327] This is a word that Kristen always gets on me. I add a something, right?

[328] No, say it again.

[329] Vietnamese.

[330] No, I'm adding a...

[331] That's an international coffee of Vietnamese.

[332] Oh, okay.

[333] Vietnamese.

[334] Vietamese.

[335] Vietamese.

[336] No, no, no, no. It's an N, not an M. Viet manets.

[337] Do you get it?

[338] No. Yeah, yeah, you're next.

[339] It's great.

[340] Clearly, I would have tested very poorly on the test.

[341] They would have not sent me. It was, they had supplies.

[342] They would help people rebuild.

[343] Peace Corps adjacent, but this is part of our trip.

[344] You know, there was someone who was sitting in a park bench who, who probably just because we were Caucasian people and that was an unusual site, said, yelled something.

[345] but I so wanted somebody to walk up to him and be like, Larry, you helped me that day.

[346] You know, I wanted the like movie version for him.

[347] And it was not that, but it was, it was just.

[348] Couldn't you have paid someone on the side?

[349] I probably could have.

[350] You would have staged a really great event.

[351] Yeah, just got up an hour earlier than him at the hotel and went downstairs.

[352] He wouldn't have known the difference.

[353] He would have been like, yeah, Phil, of course, I remember you.

[354] Yes.

[355] You know.

[356] And how long was he there?

[357] He was there for about a year and a half.

[358] So that was the first year and a half of my life.

[359] That's mind -boggling to me. You know, they were so young when they got married.

[360] They were 22 and 23.

[361] And I think the whole thing was a little bit of a improvised situation.

[362] So I was with my grandmother, my mom.

[363] Your mom's mom.

[364] Yes.

[365] And that's why she probably went to Japan because she wanted some help.

[366] That's right.

[367] Right.

[368] And so, yeah, I lived for the first year and a half of my life in Tokyo.

[369] which of course you have no memory of right i i feel like i do but it's that thing where there are a few pictures of me exactly and i maybe think and i do remember because they had a kind of a nanny to the kid sato son and i i remember that presence i remember this that person taking care of me so i feel like i have some sense of that time yeah and then you you guys all meet back up in virginia is that what happens uh then my father came to japan and we um they they took a ship back through Russia.

[370] So what I'm very confused about just geographically.

[371] And again, this is from Monaco will come in.

[372] But my understanding of where Japan is and where Moscow was, I have no idea how Moscow's on the way back.

[373] Wow, I don't really either.

[374] Like did you guys take a train, the Trans -Siberian Railroad to Moscow?

[375] Because it's very far east.

[376] I really, maybe they were like, we're, you know, reunited.

[377] Let's sail around the world.

[378] I don't know.

[379] Also, I know that I got chicken pox.

[380] Let's rekindle this romance in a fucking Soviet Moscow.

[381] Plus, I got chicken pox on the boat and there are lots of stories of them going to dinner and stuff like on the boat.

[382] And I was like, wait, I had chicken pox.

[383] And I'm just like by myself, you know, and in the thing.

[384] They were like, she's probably fine.

[385] It's the 60s.

[386] She'll be okay.

[387] Yeah, she'll live.

[388] That'll take care of it.

[389] But it is curious, right?

[390] because I accumulate all these stories as you do of my things my parents did when I was young and they made perfect sense until I'm now then their age or I'm now older than them and they start to make zero sense to me and that's got to be one of them but I would imagine it's very peculiar from my point of view that you would take a year and a half off as newly was with a baby right so do you think that was at all a clue as to what the relationship was like at that time probably I I think it was also and I mean this in the most kind way.

[391] I think my dad was just deeply freaked out.

[392] Fuck yeah.

[393] When you're 22 and this is now.

[394] Yeah.

[395] And we get closer and closer to exactly what that decision was and sort of even how they came together.

[396] My dad's mother famously when he came home and said, you know, I'm getting married.

[397] She said, but Larry, you've never even had a girlfriend.

[398] Like what do you?

[399] Like he was so, he played sports.

[400] It's extremely smart.

[401] And also my mother's a very special person.

[402] And, you know, he always says about her, like just one in a million.

[403] You know, he'd never met anybody like her.

[404] And I think it just knocked him over in any number of ways.

[405] And then, yeah, by the time he came back, she was ready to leave pretty much.

[406] I mean, they weren't together for very long.

[407] And that was in Virginia.

[408] You really are dying to get us to Virginia because no. It's such an exotic place.

[409] Why would I want to talk about Japan or?

[410] or Russia or Vietnam when I could be talking about Virginia.

[411] So my mother fell off the boat and had to be right.

[412] Yeah, yeah, but I'm assuming she made it to Virginia, though, right?

[413] We don't need to know about the helicopter rescue or anything.

[414] We lived first in, so the house I remember was in South Hampton in Long Island because my dad's parents were in Long Island.

[415] And then I think they split up and then we lived on a houseboat in the Virgin Islands.

[416] My goodness.

[417] This is a one step away from Swiss family Robinson story.

[418] That's true.

[419] amount of boats in your background.

[420] Well, I remember living on the houseboat because I remember the feeling of being seasick.

[421] Like it was, it was a docked boat kind of like where Crosby lives.

[422] Yeah.

[423] Yeah.

[424] Yeah.

[425] Yeah.

[426] I should have called your dad for research.

[427] Although I have to imagine the bachelor experience on a houseboat is drastically different than new family on a houseboat.

[428] Well, yeah, he's not, he's got, we had a tiny boat and he has however old I was, you know, it's not a big magnet.

[429] You're going to fall in.

[430] Yeah.

[431] All the time.

[432] I don't remember him ever worried about that.

[433] That's how liberating from him.

[434] I mean, I'm sure he did.

[435] And I'm nervous that they'll fall in the pool.

[436] I was always pretty self -sufficient.

[437] I'm sure, after the whole chicken pox thing, I'm sure they're like, she's fine.

[438] Yeah, she's indomitable.

[439] Yeah.

[440] But I would get picked up for daycare or school or nursery school or whatever in a motorboat in like a little boat.

[441] This is so interesting.

[442] Isn't that crazy?

[443] And then we kind of bounced around.

[444] We lived in Manhattan.

[445] And then my grandparents, parents now were back in the States and we're living in D .C. And I think partially because of that and partially because he got a job working on Capitol Hill.

[446] That's when we moved to Georgetown.

[447] Didn't get there.

[448] Didn't get there.

[449] Not there yet.

[450] So close.

[451] And then we moved to Arlington and then the rest of it was in Virginia.

[452] Northern Virginia.

[453] Boy, do we love Virginia?

[454] Stay tuned for more.

[455] Armchair expert, if you dare.

[456] We've all been there.

[457] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[458] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[459] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[460] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[461] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[462] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[463] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[464] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[465] What's up guys?

[466] This is your girl Kiki and my podcast.

[467] is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[468] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[469] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[470] And I don't mean just friends.

[471] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[472] The list goes on.

[473] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[474] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[475] But at five, am I right, five?

[476] Yeah.

[477] Your mom and dad get divorced.

[478] Yeah.

[479] And she moves to England.

[480] Right.

[481] Which, again, from my perspective, now, that's a crazy choice.

[482] Yeah.

[483] I feel, I always feel with my mom, she was kind of in the wrong time.

[484] Do you know what I mean?

[485] Like she was not quite as traditional as someone who had grown up in the 50s because she had all this exotic life experience and she spoke a foreign language.

[486] She traveled and, you know, she still had enough traditional sense that she wanted to get married.

[487] And then I think got there and was like, wait a minute, I don't even know who I am or what I want to do.

[488] So initially, she was an art school in New York City.

[489] Then she had dabbled, tried to, you know, get cast in summer stock.

[490] You know, she had a sort of interest in acting, but not, she kind of didn't really stick with anything too much.

[491] And then she, and I'm not sure if this was the first thing that brought her there, but she wasn't in a series of pop bands.

[492] Oh, really?

[493] Yeah.

[494] She was a backup singer.

[495] with her best buddy in a band called Goddess.

[496] Okay.

[497] And this is now England in the 80s.

[498] And I do have very strong memories of going to visit her during that time when she was trying to get this music career going.

[499] And I went with her to a couple of rehearsals and meetings.

[500] And it was, it was very daunting.

[501] It was kind of scary, I have to say.

[502] How interesting that you would have witnessed that and then still chose to put yourself in that situation where you're basically.

[503] Watching her go through, which she went through.

[504] gave me a healthy suspicion, I guess, about people in that business.

[505] I remember sitting in on a meeting with her.

[506] And I, for whatever reason, I remember thinking, this guy is lying.

[507] He's just, this is not a truthful person.

[508] And she was more gullible and more hopeful.

[509] You can be very much blinded, right, by your dream.

[510] And you start ignoring some pretty big signs.

[511] And she always, she had such a kind of, if you dream it, it will come.

[512] kind of vision and so I always believed for her that it would this that some magical because she was incredibly stunning like in a way that even as a teenager men are whistling on the street at her you know what I'm the teenager she had a kind of she carried herself in this incredibly elegant way and she was just this very striking person so that combined with her intelligence and her kind of vision for herself, I just, I always thought, just I thought her dreams will come true.

[513] Right, because she has all the things.

[514] She has everything.

[515] Required of that.

[516] Did she do like course of miracles or any of those things?

[517] No, she was much more, she's a funny combination of, she was very intellectual, but then I guess maybe had a sense, it was her interpretation of all the religion she'd grown up with.

[518] Yeah.

[519] I think was just this, there was a, you know, she didn't quite embrace what had been taught to her, but I think she did believe.

[520] in something.

[521] Yeah.

[522] And it was a very painful on many levels realization when she passed away without any of those things coming true.

[523] And it was a real shock to me. And it, and it served.

[524] I mean, I already was sort of starting to work before that, but I have never believed, if you dream it will come.

[525] Yeah.

[526] Yeah.

[527] You hustle and work for everything you get.

[528] We have that in common.

[529] Yeah.

[530] I hear a lot of factors on, you know, in interviews saying that they just knew it would have or whatever.

[531] And I'm virtually the opposite.

[532] I'm like, it won't happen, but I'm going to do all the steps required so I have no regrets.

[533] Right.

[534] But suffice to say you had a very, I think we had kind of a similar, you know, my dad left when I was three.

[535] He didn't move to England, but he moved into a bar virtually.

[536] And then he died very young at 62.

[537] And I've had this whole full circle feeling about him, you know, I can explain a lot of my isms based on him, yet I've come to love him.

[538] I give him too much blame than he deserves.

[539] Like, it's all, it's all a messy mix.

[540] I love him, but it was definitely like my big relationship to fix and confront my whole life.

[541] Is that, is that what your, your mother and yours was?

[542] I mean, did you take it personally when she left to England?

[543] To me, that feels like.

[544] I'm sure I did.

[545] I'm sure I did.

[546] I don't remember that necessarily, but as a young adult, I felt really clear.

[547] clear that I probably was not going to get an answer from her that would fix or change anything and that what I wanted was for us to have as good a relationship as we possibly could and that meant I had to readjust right now so were you the adult in the relationship that sounds like the adult kind of response to it not well I did go through a time I mean I went through a couple of years when we really didn't speak a couple years in college I I just didn't see her and didn't really speak to her in my family people don't raise their voices really and it's never a confrontation there's never a fight there was never a you you know there's never any of that it's i just kind of took a few years i feel like to figure out where i was and you're super close to your dad right i'm super close to my dad so some of my stuff was just i'm so in love with my mother that however mad i was about my own personal stake in it i really was mad at him for her.

[548] You know, like she was a single mother raising us and he wasn't participating in a way I thought he should and financially or time wise.

[549] So I was just so mad that he could have treated this woman who's my number one that way.

[550] It wasn't until later where I started owning my own, like, well, yeah, now I'm mad about me, you know.

[551] Right.

[552] Well, my mom also was diagnosed with cancer pretty young for the first time when she was around 50 breast cancer and she had had my half sister who's 15 years younger than I am and that was like an instant bond so my trips became less about anything except being friends with my sister taking care of her when she was really little and my mother's first diagnosed with cancer my sister kind of turned to me and started getting you know, sent to spend a summer with me or, you know, hang out, come visit me at work or something.

[553] And that also, I think, made the perspective shift.

[554] You know, there was not going to be any, a whole bunch of time to work this out.

[555] And it just sort of adjusted everything.

[556] How often were you going to see her?

[557] Like once a year.

[558] Once a year.

[559] Twice a year maybe.

[560] And also my dad was always really respectful of her.

[561] They always were friends.

[562] They really, you know, you could see until the end, Occasionally, this didn't happen very often, but the three of us would go to dinner.

[563] They couldn't stop talking to one another.

[564] They had so much to say and so many common interests and books.

[565] They were just, they were such electricity intellectually.

[566] So she just was fascinating.

[567] Did you ever think, like, oh, wow, had these people met at 30?

[568] Yes, for sure.

[569] They could have really been.

[570] For sure.

[571] I just think they were overwhelmed.

[572] She could probably have found what she wanted to do with her life within, within that relationship, within being a mom I just she didn't think so yeah I'm I was 38 when I had Lincoln and um we have help and we have money we don't have to worry about that kind of stuff and it is still almost push you to the breaking point I just can't imagine being 20 so yeah again having kids and looking back it's like well what the fuck did I expect of my 24 year old dad who now had two kids right wife and all this stuff so I also think it's and I don't know where this came from but I just don't think it does anyone any good to to live in the poor me you know I just really don't believe in that and I say that humbly because far worse circumstances have you know happen to to people but I I always had a very independent like you know you're not going to be defined by that's right yeah and yeah and I think that's the most pragmatic and healthy way to do it at the same time I do think as you become an adult and you find yourself in patterns, which I certainly found myself in patterns, both with relationships and all kinds of things.

[573] At that point, it's useful to go like, well, why, what is it I'm trying to heal myself of?

[574] It is relevant to find out the explanation.

[575] Oh, God, it's inescapable.

[576] You can't possibly, oh, no, I'm not saying I, like, made a decision to be neutral or happy about it.

[577] And that it never affected anything.

[578] It affected everything.

[579] I've said there's a bunch on here.

[580] I don't know why, but I guess, yeah, it's really key to recognize the difference between an explanation and an excuse.

[581] So I am interested in the explanation of how my childhood has, you know, created all these patterns or habits.

[582] I'm not interested in it being an excuse for why I behave this way.

[583] And I do think people think other people are making an excuse when sometimes they're not.

[584] They're just recognizing, oh, like me, I have a fucking man complex.

[585] I do anything I think that will make me a man, a ride.

[586] wheelies on shit, I'll jump off a building, I'll fight a guy, whatever it is, because ultimately I'm just waiting for my dad to show up and go like, God damn, son, you're a man. Yeah, exactly.

[587] You're a man's man. And I'm in search of that from other men, my peers, to give me that.

[588] But at a certain point, yeah, I have to go, okay, cool, you have that issue, but it's time to stop jumping off buildings.

[589] You know, I was never going to be some of the things she just naturally was.

[590] she had all this i'm sure sounds so um false coming from like an actor you know but i don't understand clothes like i really i really don't i and i finally just had to be like i'm not my mother i just i i don't have a great sense of it she just had a sort of femininity yeah that just not me yeah and it's like your man stuff you know i've tried to be like real put together kind of elegant and effortlessly, whatever it is, even if I'm defining myself by what I'm not compared to her.

[591] But isn't it interesting?

[592] So here's someone that sounds like it would have probably been maybe even a little easier for her to accomplish those goals.

[593] But if there's any quality you have that I've noticed over the years, is that you finish it, you start.

[594] And that in itself is a quality that's worth more than anything weirdly.

[595] Because had you look like, let's say, her and were just effortlessly elegant and then had your quality to finish what you start, you know, God knows what that is.

[596] But you went to school, you finished school, you went and you got a master's degree, you write books.

[597] That weirdly, right, is the most vital thing that you could have.

[598] But it's sad, too, in a way, because those are some goals she had, you know, that she was never, she wrote.

[599] There's just so many, you know, things she wanted to do that she didn't get to do.

[600] And so I'm sure that is a driving force, you know, of some kind.

[601] Living out her dreams in a weird way.

[602] Do you think in any way psychologically, you knew your mother had a flare for this?

[603] Did you in any way think, oh, I'll start performing as a kid.

[604] And that's something that she'll be interested in me for.

[605] Do you think at all your interest in acting and performing was started by this desire to be noticed by her?

[606] I don't know.

[607] No, it didn't necessarily seem like a reality because I don't know that she ever saw me in anything.

[608] She wasn't around enough to have that fantasy.

[609] You know, she lived so far away.

[610] So maybe it's just a genetic bug.

[611] You were predisposed to want to do that.

[612] Well, and when she was growing up, the oldest of four sisters, there is a kind of celebrity to being the missionary kid in these areas where just by virtue of these four gorgeous girls, like they were celebrities.

[613] One of her sisters had a pop hit in the 80s.

[614] You know, it was in the family.

[615] So I didn't equate that.

[616] What they did was so kind of glamorous.

[617] And like my Aunt Kitty, you know, who was the singer, had like platinum blonde hair.

[618] And she, you know, I was at her video shoot, you know, but of course that gave me permission in a way to even imagine it being possible.

[619] But my biggest dream was like to be in the rep company of Arena Stage in Washington.

[620] And maybe because what I saw of success, I just did air quotes, success, looked so phony to me. So I thought, oh, no, I, you know, I won't do that.

[621] I'll be like a real actor, you know.

[622] Right, right.

[623] You were getting into it for what you deemed the right reason, not just for attention.

[624] It was just like one of those things they say.

[625] It was, I had no choice.

[626] It was just the thing I was completely drawn to.

[627] It was not result -oriented in the beginning at all.

[628] And when I was growing up, I'm a little older than you, we didn't have those examples.

[629] There were no, there were no Kardashians.

[630] There were no. Do you think I grew up with the Kardashians?

[631] I'm so flattered right now.

[632] I just mean, they're like my go -to example.

[633] Cable came out when I was a kid.

[634] Yeah.

[635] There wasn't even cable most of my life.

[636] I mean, I remember sitting in my college dorm when like MTV started.

[637] You know what I mean?

[638] Like we didn't have models in the same way kids, the kids, Yeah.

[639] There was no reality shows.

[640] There was no YouTube.

[641] Right.

[642] No. Yeah.

[643] And there was three channels on TV.

[644] So the odds of you getting on.

[645] I wanted to be like Fonzie, you know.

[646] There was not like another actress I was trying to be, you know.

[647] So imagine Fonzie nowadays would have a clothing line is pretty mind -boggling.

[648] Or he would have a cologne.

[649] Fonsie Cologne.

[650] He'd have a leather jacket, a line of leather jackets, a line of motorcycles.

[651] So you went to school.

[652] You did really well in school.

[653] Your dad is very bright.

[654] and you're, from my experience, very bright.

[655] And was college fun for you?

[656] Well, no. I went to acting school my first year.

[657] At NYU.

[658] At NYU.

[659] It's very creepy, the facts that you know.

[660] And I didn't know, by the way, I didn't know any of them 24 hours ago, even though we've been friends for a decade.

[661] Jimmy Kimmel murdered three people.

[662] I had no idea.

[663] Well, you could see that.

[664] Until I interviewed him, that he, yeah, was acquitted from a triple homicide.

[665] But you went to NYU.

[666] I went to acting school.

[667] My boyfriend at the time was at Harvard.

[668] I would go visit him and the contrast was ridiculous.

[669] Can I ask you before you get there?

[670] Were you boy crazy as a girl?

[671] No. I know.

[672] I had this one boyfriend off and on through most of high school and a little bit into college.

[673] And were you attracted to your dad or your boyfriend's dad types?

[674] Well, yeah, a little.

[675] I mean, in that like my.

[676] like, well, this old boyfriend I'm talking about, and Peter met one time in San Francisco.

[677] I was having lunch with Charlie, my old boyfriend.

[678] And they, they like walked up to one another.

[679] And I remember, I think Peter said this.

[680] He goes, well, she likes tall white guys with backpacks.

[681] Did he have hiking shoes on?

[682] Yes.

[683] And by white, he just means pale.

[684] They're both very pale.

[685] It's not uniquely.

[686] But, you know, they were both, they're both really brainy.

[687] Charlie was the you know our senior class president and and a very creative and interesting guy and but he was my friend for a long time I was the lead a bridge person between the cool girls and the geeky guys were it not for me they would never have met commingled but and I was only on the outside of cool girls like I was sort of just like they let me come along I was not one of the popular people but I had a couple friends in the in the group of of girls who were like fun and then and then all my guy friends are like from high school are crazy successful and and were slightly less popular with the girls at the time although those guys always do fantastically well they really do so I wouldn't say necessarily boy crazy but I definitely had this on again off again relationship with him for a while and then I went I'd go visit him in school and what he was doing seemed like school to me what I was doing seemed abstract you know it was the stuff you were studying at NYU because I was 17 when I went to college because I had skipped a grade and so I was very young and I had never been in a conservatory type training program and you know you literally just like do crazy oh yeah Kristen went to NYU and the stuff she tells me about I it's mind blowing yeah yeah you're going Alexander technique you're like breathing in people's mouths you're doing all kinds of stuff I'm like this is a fucking class I had to write like really long papers yeah well for some reason I craved that I just I thought I don't know that four years of this is going to I just didn't make sense so yeah then I transferred to Barnard and I none of my credits transferred but the the thesis of all of this I want to say is I was I was driven by some ticking clock that actually does not exist.

[688] Uh -huh.

[689] But I was sure that if I didn't do everything as quickly as I possibly could that I was going to fail.

[690] And there's whatever that anxiety, it's a combination of anxiety and ambition because it's not just, it's not just pure ambition.

[691] There's something in there that's like, whacked.

[692] It's fear -based.

[693] Because I was in a panic all the time.

[694] And I thought I needed to finish school on time.

[695] Right.

[696] I wrote about this a little bit in my book that, you know, I had this really made up a finish line.

[697] And so I cram - And so it was so easy to fail in life.

[698] Also, the idea that one year older and it did it all be behind, you never make 26.

[699] Well, no, you got to do it by 25, which is just not true.

[700] I had a similar, I don't know where it came from.

[701] Like you end up finding people, right, that like I walked around knowing S .E. Hinton was 14 when she wrote outsiders or how old she was.

[702] crazy young.

[703] And that's something now when I'm 18, I feel like I'm four years behind, this arbitrary thing I learned.

[704] Well, I had a friend in high school who was also interested in theater who some imagined competition I had with him.

[705] I was like, well, he did summer stock.

[706] I should have done summer stock.

[707] He got a commercial, a local commercial.

[708] I should have had something like as if we're at all the same.

[709] And he's a guy.

[710] Anyway, but so they're talking about rebooting Gilmore Girls with him is the way.

[711] damn it gets me again but so I wanted to cram these four years of school basically into three years which I did but I didn't do well and it's hilarious not fun right no it wasn't fun at all and now they just invited party or sleep with people or do you do anything of that or I was with Charlie for like most of my freshman year I had a couple like really ill -fated um dates I guess it was a rough time in the 80s in New York City like plus at Barnard there's there's they had just started taking women at Columbia College so the ratios were really off they were a lot more favor though no no they had so there there are three colleges there's Barnard Columbia and the School of Engineering there were far more women so Barnard is an entire college of women so there were the men had their pick basically oh wow okay this is like the two straight guys in Kristen's musical theater program.

[712] I can't believe she had too.

[713] They were like too tired to have sex anymore.

[714] They just couldn't keep up with the demand.

[715] I've always, for whatever reason, you know, I was a tomboy.

[716] I was raised by my dad.

[717] I end up in these really girly situations.

[718] You know, I rode horses as a kid.

[719] That was my big sport.

[720] There's like one guy in, you know, my whole horseback riding camp.

[721] And then even Gilmore Girls was always such a funny, you know, thing to be kind of my big thing because it was it is i always appreciate the men who you know say that they have enjoyed it but it's it was a female world it was a female world and and that's who the creator is female yeah right yeah and it's a mother -daughter story you're the boss you're the fucking boss on gilmore girl it's a matriarchy it is and and there's you know perhaps some poetry i mean i would get asked year after year after year you know was this your relationship with your mom and you know what kind of mom and I'm neither a mom nor had this relationship right right yeah and and yet I got to have that in fiction you know and and I just always thought that was um interesting and and then I ended up in this you know women's college which I couldn't be more thankful for the experience but I all you know most of my friends were guys and growing up like it just was unlikely so yeah I dated a couple of a couple of dudes but it wasn't anything that you would write a steamy no no I was in an a cappella group, also not necessarily a guy magnet.

[722] Yeah.

[723] Well, that's my, I've never gone to see a female acapella group.

[724] We were kind of cool, though.

[725] We were, um, that's, well, hold on.

[726] Are we sure about that?

[727] Of the aquapella, of the female aquapella groups, we were considered to be a little edgy.

[728] Okay.

[729] Um, we, we threw out condoms at our concerts.

[730] Oh, I guess she.

[731] What's not cool about that?

[732] That's super cool.

[733] Would you put one on a banana or anything?

[734] No, I feel like we made macaroni necklaces.

[735] Like it was just kind of kitchy.

[736] That was a great time.

[737] And were you doing that purely for fun or was that also somehow career driven or this time clock motivated?

[738] Was that something?

[739] It was actually more my attempt to be social because I felt really isolated as a transfer student.

[740] I didn't know anyone.

[741] I went to see this group and they were really cool and, and, um, And I thought it was a collegiate kind of thing to do.

[742] Yeah, yeah.

[743] We didn't really have sororities or anything.

[744] Yeah, Harvard's got the whooping coughs or something.

[745] Whippin poofs?

[746] Whiff and poops.

[747] And that was an aspect of it too, which is you'd travel to other schools to perform in school.

[748] You'd host schools.

[749] I think after acting school, I wanted to like be sitting on a quad playing hacky sack.

[750] Like I just wanted some, you know, poetic version of, yes, of college.

[751] And, you know, in the middle of Manhattan.

[752] and there's only so much you can get.

[753] What was your relief from this, for lack of a better word, type Aism?

[754] Where were you finding solace?

[755] At the time, I don't really think there was any.

[756] Because mine was drinking.

[757] Like I had the same kind of drive that you do and this nonstop voice telling me I'm failing.

[758] I'm failing.

[759] You've missed the boat.

[760] Right.

[761] And drinking was a great relief of that madness for me. I did not have that.

[762] I filled up all my time.

[763] I think that was one of the.

[764] the things I did.

[765] I, so that there was no time to consider if this was a way to live.

[766] A pleasurable.

[767] That's right.

[768] Because I struggled to pay for school.

[769] I worked in the library.

[770] I was a waitress.

[771] I, um, you know, once I got out of school, I was a tutor.

[772] I worked at Barneys.

[773] I was a cocktail waitress at the improv.

[774] I ushered theater, the movie, like I was on a hustle that like had no end.

[775] And then in the summer, I'd go work at this summer stock where, You went in Michigan, I learned.

[776] I went to Augusta, Michigan.

[777] I don't know because it was such...

[778] You must not listen to me when I tell you, like, where I'm from.

[779] I listened to you, but this is a small town.

[780] This is like not where you're from.

[781] Because if I had the pleasure of doing theater in Virginia, I would have told you about it all the time.

[782] This was, you know, those auditions.

[783] Summers and Michigan's a fun place.

[784] It's a thousand degrees.

[785] And not if you're painting the fence, which is what we did every summer.

[786] Like Mr. Miyagi was your, uh, coach it was it was a it's such a smart business model because they basically you're paying for the privilege to clean the bathrooms oh my god it's summer stock right so and it's non -union so you do these big auditions in new york called the straw hats and that's how you got a summer job but a lot of these you started as an apprentice and the the carrot on the end of the stick was if you worked there enough summers you'd get your equity card you know the theater union so you were you're building up you know whatever credits or points or however they do it and And also performing?

[787] You would perform in the chorus of, and once in a while you'd get a part.

[788] And, uh, but during, this isn't like filled with hanky -panky.

[789] These are people all living.

[790] That kind of was.

[791] That was.

[792] Thank God.

[793] I just need that part of your story where there was a ton of hanky -panky.

[794] I, yeah.

[795] I was starting to do a little better by then.

[796] Okay.

[797] And, yeah, as you say, those, those are warm summer nights in Michigan.

[798] Sure.

[799] And there's not a lot to do.

[800] We would go.

[801] Did you go swimming?

[802] No, it was like a land.

[803] Locked.

[804] I know we'd go to Target.

[805] That's what we'd do for fun.

[806] Okay.

[807] Where, you know, Target was, like, new at the time.

[808] And you're like, what?

[809] You can get a tomato and a speaker.

[810] Like, what is this great, you know, great new place.

[811] And, and that was literally what we'd do is walk the aisles of Target.

[812] Also, you had no time off because you'd work as a. What year was this?

[813] This was 93?

[814] Like, yeah, two, yeah.

[815] Yeah, two.

[816] Well, yeah.

[817] I mean, we could have goddamn bumped into one another.

[818] I was still there.

[819] But were you in Augusta?

[820] There would have been some hanky, panky.

[821] I don't care what your program.

[822] Once I would have heard you were from Virginia, prepare to be wooed.

[823] Can you see DC from your property?

[824] I don't think it stopped almost literally until, I mean, there was a little bit of a nice respite where I started working a little bit as an actor.

[825] I finally started making some commercials and had some money for the first time.

[826] Yeah, you booked commercials, which drove me nuts when I read about you.

[827] Why?

[828] Well, because I auditioned for commercials for eight years and in eight years I booked two.

[829] One of them was an industrial buyout.

[830] Really?

[831] I just could not get one of them.

[832] I must have driven to a thousand auditions.

[833] I don't know.

[834] Maybe today.

[835] Back then I felt like I was not good looking enough for like the deodorant commercial and nor was like charactery looking enough to be the guy who falls down leaving the bathroom.

[836] I just felt like I was in this and maybe it was all in my head.

[837] Maybe I just sucked.

[838] I have no clue.

[839] But suffice to say I definitely did not book any of those.

[840] And I went on thousands.

[841] I would, this memory I get when I, I close the door of my Honda Civic and I finally say, I had a Honda Civic.

[842] You did?

[843] Oh, when people ask me advice for an aspiring actor, I say buy a Honda Civic.

[844] Because you're not going to make any money and you don't want this thing to break.

[845] Yeah.

[846] That's going to get you everywhere.

[847] That's like my number one piece of advice.

[848] That's fantastic.

[849] But I would shut the door of my Honda Civic and I would go, Chili's.

[850] It's always Friday and here.

[851] Fuck.

[852] That's how I was supposed to say it.

[853] And that was my life is saying, it's always Friday in here when I'd get in my car.

[854] This is in my book too that I say the hardest line ever written by any great writer is welcome to Chili's.

[855] Yeah.

[856] Because...

[857] Oh, you have that exact line.

[858] I have that exact line because it's...

[859] And for whatever reason...

[860] It should be the entrance line for like Juilliard.

[861] I've gone back to my grad program at SMU and have them...

[862] That's my opener.

[863] When I do like a workshop because it's that sweet spot of authentic but salesperson.

[864] It's so many things you're trying to be all at once.

[865] Oh, yeah.

[866] And so many of those auditions, I'd say like 10 % of the auditions I went on, you were required to dance to know music.

[867] Oh, God.

[868] Because you had lines.

[869] So you'd be in this room dancing.

[870] And then I would shut to dance.

[871] Because it was going to be a fun commercial with dancing, you know.

[872] You're either on a dance floor.

[873] you found out you got a raise and you got to do a happy dance.

[874] Again, I just know I would shut the door to my Honda and then I would remember the perfect dance I should have done.

[875] And it was just so embarrassing.

[876] I mean, it's just so humiliating.

[877] It's incredible.

[878] And also I think it's really good training.

[879] I mean, and no one was more shocked than I when I started booking these.

[880] And in fact, I'd gone years without like no reason that I should believe this was going to work out well except I started getting some commercials but but there were people you make a good enough living on those that you no longer have to have seven jobs well I made a rule which was I would continue because I had a waitressing job still and that I was going to keep that job even though I was starting to put a little money in the bank and I technically you know maybe for a few months didn't have to be working every day until something came up that forced me to quit my day job and which is funny enough, I think the opposite of like the secret in all these self -help books, which is you got to close that door before you can, you know.

[881] Yeah.

[882] But you did the opposite and it still work.

[883] So put that in your pipe and suck on it.

[884] It's probably part of that anxiety thing, the sense of honesty.

[885] Monica has this.

[886] I have this and I think you have this, which is you have this fear also that if you tip into a certain lack of humility, you'll get nothing up from the world as well.

[887] Right.

[888] So like Monica will, Monica, by the way, books every fucking commercial edition she goes on it.

[889] I'm so happy for and I'm so jealous of it.

[890] It's crazy.

[891] It's like it's a legit percentage.

[892] And then there'll be one where she, it's in Santa Monica at 5 p .m. It's something she knows she's not going to get.

[893] And she tells herself, if I don't drive there, I'll never book one again.

[894] Of course, this is who.

[895] but you do it, right?

[896] Yeah, there's some bargaining happening with the universe a little bit when you...

[897] Yeah.

[898] But when you're a freelancer of any kind, you have to do that.

[899] You have to make up your own structure and your own code of conduct because who else is going to do it for you.

[900] And you might as well listen to the people who hung on to reality longer than the ones who are like, believe in yourself, you know, and that's probably in reaction to some of my mom's stuff too.

[901] but there was a friend of mine has a her son is out here if she won't stop calling me no a friend of mine has a son who just came out here to you know to try to be an actor and like you know send me a text for a couple months like you know how how long you know how do I know kind of thing like when is it going to happen and I was like dude you got years ahead like it can be years you know and and so you kind of have to be your own boss you want to steal my sentence I give to family members yes what is it but and I do believe in this because it was my mantra which is, you know, look, if this is something that he'd be happier failing at, then he would be succeeding at something else, then this is the job for him.

[902] And I would think that occasionally when I was like, at least I was in the Sunday show at the groundlings, and I at least had that, right?

[903] And I did.

[904] And I remember during that period, I was still flat broken everything.

[905] But I was like, hmm, I am happier doing this than I would be making a ton of money at some other business, you know.

[906] And I had a class too.

[907] Once I got out of grad school, I studied with this teacher.

[908] or Win Hanman who is still with us and they're making a documentary about him and I just got to go and talk about him for a long time and they handed me the contact sheet from my class and Connie Britton, that's where I met Connie is there.

[909] Asif Manvi was on the sheet and like, you know, not only was that the creative outlet that kept me going, but this became a little bit of my community.

[910] You know, when you're starting out, you look to the left and the right and, you know, Hopefully you'll have some friends who get some success.

[911] And in my circle, my life, that was Melissa McCarthy.

[912] Uh -huh.

[913] So we were all in a comedy troupe together.

[914] And then she was the first among us that was like bought a house.

[915] Right.

[916] And it was from being sooky, right?

[917] Gilmore girls.

[918] Yeah.

[919] And that was mind blowing to us.

[920] I mean, it was all we talked about.

[921] Yeah.

[922] Yeah.

[923] I remember in college.

[924] She was still became, she was still friends with us because I'm sure that's all we thought about is the fact that she was, you know, making a paycheck.

[925] in doing this thing.

[926] I went with her to look at that first house.

[927] Over by Gelsons, right?

[928] Yeah, before she redid it, which she's incredible at.

[929] Yeah.

[930] I remember in college, there was a guy who was in another Acapella group who had a like a Burger King commercial.

[931] You'd point him out, you know, like people would be like, wait, that's the guy.

[932] Oh, yeah.

[933] That's the guy who has the thing.

[934] Like it's so far away when you're not even close, you know.

[935] And then even once you get in it, I could see as far as I could maybe get a couple lines on a soap and then I got a couple lines on a soap and then I was like maybe I could be like a guest star and a sitcom and then I got that and then like you keep having to yeah the bar keeps on yes yes well it does if you're smart although I did want to talk to you about that because I think that's something that we we both have right and and that is that is human nature so it's like god if I could just make a living doing commercials whatever you tell yourself that for a while then you do that and you go off man if I was just a regular on a sitcom that would be it but that never stops.

[936] You eventually, if you want to know a piece, you kind of got to stop that.

[937] That's right.

[938] Yeah.

[939] Because you can also miss out.

[940] My analogy is always like, I've worked with a lot of different actors that were in a movie, we're on a location somewhere exotic, we're making good money.

[941] Yeah.

[942] And they're preoccupied that they're not so and so.

[943] Right.

[944] And I always say, you know, it'd be a real fucking shame to miss the experience of having been in the NBA.

[945] Just because you're not Michael Jordan.

[946] It's really simple to go, fuck, I'm not Michael Jordan.

[947] Yeah.

[948] Well, you might be Scotty Pittman.

[949] That's a goddamn amazing life and it's very easy to miss it because you do keep moving the mark, right?

[950] Well, what I mean in moving the bar is, is it's fun to give yourself something to aspire to.

[951] But for me, the bar does change.

[952] And at a certain point, my bar became more about feeling really happy at home, having love in my life and and feeling feeling really.

[953] grateful for that and pivoting for me it's been helpful to read the landscape and go well that's not going to happen or this is going to happen you're not going to be a superhero in a movie i'm not either that ship sailed that's right that's right and i'm not going to be sandra bullock because she already did it and it's not going to suddenly i'm you know but so and i've always been very pretty realistic about that i don't know what the next thing is as an actor like i am i am i am my first place where there are more options that are not appealing than ones that are, which is why one of the reasons I started writing and I also started writing just out of the same way I started acting.

[954] It just happened.

[955] And I thought, okay, well, if this is bubbling up, I better give it some attention and deadline and some structure.

[956] I have more writing assignments right now than I do.

[957] But what's interesting is you started this prior to being in that mental state Because you started your first book while we were doing parenthood.

[958] Yes.

[959] Is you that far -sighted that you, no?

[960] This is what that was.

[961] I was on a job that was really fun, parenthood.

[962] Yeah.

[963] And if you had to say one person made it the most fun.

[964] I mean, whatever.

[965] You don't have to say my name, but just, you know, if one person pops up.

[966] The person I wish I had more scenes with the most was you, because we always had such a great time.

[967] You and I, we had such a fucking blast.

[968] And I do feel like we had the.

[969] the least amount of scenes of any two characters in the show, weirdly.

[970] I remember when you joined, because for people who don't know this, the pilot was shot with more a tourney.

[971] Tierney.

[972] Say Vietnamese one more time.

[973] You know more Turney.

[974] She's a Vietnamese actor from Vietnam.

[975] But then she got sick momentarily.

[976] And then she was recast and you joined the casting.

[977] I remember thinking, I think I'd only met you.

[978] I met me met you twice socially and you were very funny in real life.

[979] And I thought you and I will probably have a lot of scenes together and we'll be funny together.

[980] But they pretty much put up a firewall between us.

[981] They really did.

[982] In fact, if there's one scene, there's one scene that immediately pops out in my head of our first scene working together.

[983] Do you have one?

[984] Because I have a specific one.

[985] Who's on the boat.

[986] Yes.

[987] I was fixing the sink, right?

[988] That's immediately where my head goes when I think of acting with you.

[989] We had some scene.

[990] It was almost impossible to shoot because my head's under a fucking sink.

[991] It was like poorly conceived, right?

[992] I'm not even a scene.

[993] I'm like sitting on the counter or something.

[994] Yeah.

[995] And you're basically having a scene with the neighbor in Tim the Toolman.

[996] His face you never see, right?

[997] It's just eyes.

[998] Like you were having a scene with my feet.

[999] Right.

[1000] But I remember it being really fun though.

[1001] Because we hijacked it mostly, I think, right?

[1002] It was conceived one way and then we did something else and it was really fun.

[1003] I think maybe that's why they didn't put us in more scenes together.

[1004] They were like, well, if neither of them is going to say anything we wrote, why don't we spread them out a little bit.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] Independently it worked.

[1007] but together it's the...

[1008] I think I was just so like, you know, Gilmore Girls was every word, every word as written.

[1009] And there's a beauty to that.

[1010] And there's a real, um, discipline and, you know, in a funny way after parenthood, I was like, I really crave the sort of theatrical language, you know, of Gilmore Girls and then I got to do it again.

[1011] But, um, yeah, I was definitely like, oh, you know, they allowed some freedom and I really took that freedom.

[1012] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1013] I'd been like held back for a long time, exactly.

[1014] Yeah, me too.

[1015] But yeah, so you were on Gilmore Gores, and that was your first really big break.

[1016] And that was a very hard show in that, as you just said, the language is really, really important.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] And also you were the lead of the show.

[1019] So your hours were crazy.

[1020] Now shows are generally shot with three cameras.

[1021] There's not nearly as much time.

[1022] And digital.

[1023] When we started Gilmore Girls, we shot on film, which takes a lot longer to light.

[1024] Yep, to light, to load.

[1025] You don't want to waste it.

[1026] so you're not just going to leave the camera running and let people take four runs at it.

[1027] Because on parenthood, we'd have three cameras shooting and you would often do four takes within one take.

[1028] You just reset yourself and keep going and there was no expense to that.

[1029] And that made our life super easy.

[1030] Right.

[1031] But yeah, you left a show where you were working, what, 14 hours a day?

[1032] 14 hours a day.

[1033] And then I did a Broadway musical and then I did the windshield wiper movie.

[1034] And then I did a couple of, like I didn't stop.

[1035] Is there any point, though, between Gilmore Girls and Parenthood where you thought, I can only assume if you're like me, by the end of Gilmore girls, you're like, I can't do this anymore.

[1036] It's so much work, so long, I want something else.

[1037] And then the second that's gone, you're like, oh boy, was that my thing?

[1038] Was that the one thing?

[1039] Did you have those fears?

[1040] I just kind of kept barreling forward and I'm sure I had all those fears because I have every fear of every kind every day.

[1041] Because that becomes its own addiction in a way, right?

[1042] It's like got to work hard, got to be in this, in this, you know, real battle mode.

[1043] that's how, you know, look, it worked for this many years.

[1044] So that's what I got to stay in this mode and, you know, kind of barrel through.

[1045] And like the Broadway is an extremely demanding insane schedule and like, and is a musical.

[1046] You did 113 shows.

[1047] Did we?

[1048] That's too many.

[1049] Wasn't, you know, it wasn't a hit show.

[1050] You don't have the energy behind it.

[1051] It's your.

[1052] So that's even its own battle of like, I'm going to get in there.

[1053] I'm going to give it my best.

[1054] but, you know, and you don't know when it's going to end, you know, because it's a business model I didn't understand.

[1055] So I was like, how long do we keep this going before it's, you know, doesn't make sense.

[1056] Yes.

[1057] And I remember I ran into name drop alert, but I had done an episode of Seinfeld when I was starting.

[1058] And I've never heard of that.

[1059] That's a PBS program.

[1060] I ran into Jerry Seinfeld.

[1061] He's always so nice.

[1062] And he had so many episodes.

[1063] He has no reason to like remember.

[1064] He's always like, dial, which was my episode.

[1065] But I said, I'm just so exhausted and I don't, I can't figure it out.

[1066] And he said, it's the audience.

[1067] It's that energy of that relationship is the most wonderful energy.

[1068] And on your worst night, you're giving so much and, and absorbing that whatever the connection is.

[1069] And it's the fuel.

[1070] Yes.

[1071] And sometimes you're, you're really not working on much fuel.

[1072] But so I had only existed there.

[1073] And then, and then I got parenthood.

[1074] And in the beginning, I was frustrated by how...

[1075] What little you had to do.

[1076] I recall this.

[1077] I think that's a huge transition, by the way, for having to be the title character in a show and then come be a part of an ensemble is an adjustment.

[1078] There were so many things I didn't expect about it.

[1079] But I think the most scary one at first was I had time.

[1080] And I didn't...

[1081] I had no experience almost since I was in high school or before then.

[1082] I mean, I jammed my summers full of jobs and camps and training and, but it was all in the name of career.

[1083] It wasn't like good times.

[1084] I didn't like backpack through Europe or anything.

[1085] You know, like I had been driving this train for so long.

[1086] Did you have a person you were trying to be?

[1087] Was there a career path that you were like, that's who I want to be?

[1088] Um.

[1089] You brought up Sandra Bull.

[1090] I mean, honestly, that was the dream.

[1091] In the very beginning, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, was up for a couple of things that, you know, I auditioned for while you were sleeping.

[1092] I would, I don't think I came close.

[1093] Did you get it?

[1094] I got it.

[1095] I was so good.

[1096] But, you know, I wanted to be Helen Hunt or Elizabeth Montgomery, you know, I want, like, I really wanted to do a half hour and, and do kind of romantic comedies.

[1097] I love, I love romantic comedies of the, you know, good kind.

[1098] So anyway, and so some of that frustration, I think, I just honestly didn't know what to do with myself.

[1099] You know, I got to this one day and Peter had moved in and I was really happy and my job was - You started hanky -panking your co -star.

[1100] My brother, yeah, who I'd known for a million years.

[1101] You guys had been on a date, which I love.

[1102] One of you didn't know he was on a date.

[1103] Is that what it was?

[1104] He wanted to play board games.

[1105] Is that part of this day?

[1106] Well, okay, so that's, oh, that's not even the one I thought you were asking about.

[1107] We had a couple near misses over like a 15 year period and we were in the same episode of Caroline in the city and so we became friends and for various reasons over the years I was always like for one reason or another I was like oh he's not interested or he's not ready or he's not dating material you know he's not whatever he invited me over to his apartment to play a board game sure super sexy move and and and we did and I was like and you legitimately played a board game which by the way now knowing he's he's such he's from such a like cards and game family.

[1108] He's also from Minnesota.

[1109] You cannot underestimate the power of that right there.

[1110] I was just there for the Super Bowl and I go, oh, I understand Peter Krausen out perfectly.

[1111] Everyone is kind as hell.

[1112] Genuine.

[1113] Really smart.

[1114] Ernest.

[1115] And kind of no, and I mean this in the, you know, he's the sexiest man alive.

[1116] He is.

[1117] He's very sexy.

[1118] In a traditional way because he didn't really, he didn't need one.

[1119] But so anyway, we played board games.

[1120] and then this is the romantic.

[1121] By the way, if I'm a woman and a man invites me to play board games on what I perceive as a date, I'm 40 % certain he's a serial killer.

[1122] It's such an offbeat suggestion, you know?

[1123] But I genuinely thought, I mean, I didn't think we were going to go like make out or something, but I just thought he sort of, I thought it was like a joke, like come up and see my etchings.

[1124] Right.

[1125] And then you get up there and he's in a robe or something.

[1126] He's like, so, Rummy Cube or, you know.

[1127] But God bless him.

[1128] He genuinely wanted to bless some of those board games.

[1129] And then he threw, as we were leaving, he threw a football.

[1130] Classic hit on move.

[1131] The one and only time I've ever, as he'll tell it, I caught a perfect spiral, which like.

[1132] That tells me everything about the day.

[1133] But wait, I caught the ball and he said, I think I'm in love.

[1134] And I said, let's go.

[1135] Because I had already been like, I was like, this is not flirting with me. So now when he did overtly flirt with me, I was just like, no, you know, it was friend zone.

[1136] So anyway.

[1137] But so many of our conversations on parenthood would be discussing our life shooting this show.

[1138] And I remember regular going like just this experience is not going to be topped as far as the workload and the people we got to be around daily and who were shooting shit with at craft service.

[1139] That was like, that was a 10.

[1140] But I was still in.

[1141] You were still in another mode.

[1142] And, and, but by the way, by the end.

[1143] And I became the person who would say to May and Miles, you'll never have this again.

[1144] Yeah, slow down, smell these roses.

[1145] So I had a window that is a place where ambition goes to die.

[1146] Happily.

[1147] Happily, I had to make that transition.

[1148] That's my question to you is how do you, I have this thing where I constantly am saying to myself, so you had all these characteristics as a person that brought you to the dance.

[1149] but you're here and it's not necessarily that those characteristics are going to keep you at the dance you know it's really hard when a certain personality style has yielded results but that doesn't mean that it's going to yield happiness it doesn't mean it's going to yield a relationship at last it doesn't so sometimes you got a you got to kind of pivot I think you constantly have to pivot you know yeah I think I think it's it is part of growing and growing up which I think we're always doing is to lose the ideas you had about yourself, even if exactly what you're saying, even if they have been successful, sometimes they were hanging on to something that does not serve us anymore.

[1150] I don't know how you identify that necessarily, but I think it always bears another look because I did get to a place when I would say, like, God, I wish I had more to do on the show or I feel ambitious and, like, you know, it's like I'm sitting on the bench and I want to play in the game, you know, kind of thing.

[1151] But once I kind of had that given to me, even though I didn't think I wanted it, it You were forced to, yeah, I was forced to, A, slow down and be quiet.

[1152] And, you know, the first pages that I wrote that became my first book happened in a moment in our trailer when I was done with work.

[1153] It was noon.

[1154] I knew who I was going home to.

[1155] There was no kind of, and I thought, what is this?

[1156] space how how what it what a waste kind of you know that was my first thought and then i i i was reflecting on it was part i mean i've been in therapy like i it's not the first time i reflected on my life ever but it was a different kind of of um space yeah and out of that space came new creative thoughts and and new pursuit wasn't born out of like well now i guess i should try to brand myself by as a writer you know it wasn't anything mercenary it wasn't about career i just had kind of thought and i i want i started telling a story and in this this period of like i guess reflection uh are you also evaluating your life outside of your identity as an actor it affected everything my my mantra which had been like go go go go go go became like slow down slow down.

[1157] And also I thought maybe there is a way to, and I'm talking about everything, not just career, can I have more ease in how I'm conducting myself and in the level of anxiety I'm experiencing all the time?

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] You know, can I enjoy myself?

[1160] You know, can I be here?

[1161] And it and it has to do with being in a place that was a happy place, but it's not entirely that.

[1162] It was just having some space to feel who I was and where I was.

[1163] And it was one of those life moments where it's like, hey, is this still serving me?

[1164] You know, is this kind of like manic got to get to the next place?

[1165] And it's probably age somewhat, but it's also, it's, it's, there's a kind of self -care that maybe loops back to how we were or were not parented.

[1166] My father is an incredible person.

[1167] He was a great parent, but he was not a mommy in a traditional mommy way.

[1168] And like I would go to other kids' houses and their moms were like, I would, I would just feel like, ew, they're so like present.

[1169] And they're like, you know, they're so like kissy and like, you know, wondering what we're doing.

[1170] And like, I was like, just leave us alone.

[1171] We're fine.

[1172] And so, you know, that fit for who I was.

[1173] But but I think it took me a long time to be like, maybe I can just, you know, mommy this up a little bit more and just kind of have more ease.

[1174] And you're using therapy mostly at this moment to help guide you through this.

[1175] I've been in therapy since college.

[1176] That has been enormously, enormously helpful.

[1177] Well, I've never done this exercise, but I'm aware of the exercise where a therapist will ask you to basically comfort the young version of yourself, right?

[1178] Like, imagine the young.

[1179] When I was, when I was asked to do this once.

[1180] And I was like, see, okay, I can't do that because all I'm going to do is kind of like judge my acting while I'm just going to be like, oh, wait, I want to go back and rewrite this monologue.

[1181] Like, you know, I can't.

[1182] It's too, like, performing.

[1183] I, one time before I had embraced a 12 -step program, I'm like, I printed out a picture of myself as a baby and laminated it and put it in my wallet.

[1184] When I wanted to do cocaine, I would pull out this picture of myself and think, would you put cocaine in that little baby's nose?

[1185] And then you did anyway.

[1186] In fact, I'd put lots of cocaine in that baby.

[1187] That's like a very beautiful detail.

[1188] And then Bell discovered this and then she started keeping it in her wallet just because she wanted to see that baby all.

[1189] often.

[1190] When she was hating me, she'd look at that baby and go, oh, he was once an innocent person that did other.

[1191] Yeah.

[1192] But I think in general, you know, I just kind of thought, I feel like things can be easier and more enjoyable and it's not cheating.

[1193] I think I had tied up effort and worry with I'm doing a good job.

[1194] And then if I enjoy myself and if something's easy, I probably didn't put enough effort into it.

[1195] And I was like trying to separate and, you know those two um also part of being an actor there's only one other job like being an athlete where you're thinking about how you look all the time you're thinking about what you're eating you're thinking about like your hair like you're thinking about so in terms of being all consuming it's not even just the hours you're putting in on a stage it's like you're constantly thinking about yourself you're constantly being reminded where you stand yeah it's it's the invitation you get.

[1196] It's the table you might get.

[1197] It's, are they sending a car or not?

[1198] It's all the trappings.

[1199] And they're meaning, these things are meaningless, but they, but they can contribute to our sense of ourselves and our achievement.

[1200] And, and that's, you know, everybody probably has that at work in some way or another, but it's perhaps more, um, uh, transparent, you know, like our thing is just like, the calls stop or the things go away or they come back or they, you know, you're just, it's, it's a murky.

[1201] There's a ton of.

[1202] uncertainty.

[1203] That's right.

[1204] But the thing I really hope to convey is for certain if you told me when I was 17 that I would be on an NBC television show and people at the mall would recognize me. I am, I at the 17 year old would have said, well, then I must feel great.

[1205] Like I'll feel celebrated and loved.

[1206] And I would have never thought, wow, I'll be on that TV show and I'll probably be thinking about why I'm not in American sniper.

[1207] Right.

[1208] But in fact, that's what I'm thinking when I get there.

[1209] So I feel like it's my duty to just break the fallacy.

[1210] that like you'll never feel like you've got that level of whatever you're going for.

[1211] That you actually end up having to make that decision for yourself.

[1212] That's right.

[1213] This is a natural segue to plug the book I have coming out.

[1214] Okay, great, great, great, right, right, right.

[1215] You remind me of it because I gave a graduation speech last year and then the publisher asked me to do kind of a graduation book, like a advice.

[1216] I totally changed the speech I gave.

[1217] But elongated advice, basically.

[1218] Right.

[1219] And really what it comes down to and it can feel so tricky to say this in a way that doesn't sound, it's like it's a very lucky place to get to do what you want.

[1220] But the real secret is getting to do that does not change your sense of yourself because I have many, we all have friends, you know, who think if they had X, Y, Z or, you know, some that success.

[1221] kind of gives you something and it really doesn't in fact it can separate you from your sense of yourself because now on top of everything you don't feel the way you thought you were going to feel and the way you're supposed to feel and the way everybody thinks you should feel and like you know how dare you complain from your height but it is it forces you to to look within so many of us you know, started these, these storytelling, artistic careers to fantasize about being somebody else.

[1222] I mean, that's at its core.

[1223] The day of work feeds you, you know, the experience.

[1224] And it's what you're saying about being on a set with somebody who's like, but why aren't I?

[1225] You know, but it is literally just the day.

[1226] And I've had happy days as, you know, a cocktail waitress and I've had happy and I've had sad days as an actor.

[1227] I've felt better about, you know, some of My work is a tutor, then I have, you know what I mean?

[1228] It's literally the day.

[1229] I have almost zero memories of where, episodes we did, how present or not present I am in those storylines.

[1230] I don't really know.

[1231] I can't tell you if year three was big for me or year five.

[1232] I don't know.

[1233] But I have, all my memories are us making that show.

[1234] Yes.

[1235] Yeah.

[1236] In AA, we say we're not in the results business.

[1237] We're in the show up and do work business.

[1238] Yes.

[1239] And like I have to remind myself of that constantly.

[1240] Because the experience on planet Earth is the work part.

[1241] It's not the results part.

[1242] And it's a game or it's a lie.

[1243] There are many reasons to continue to try to sell the idea that this car, this house, this show, this job, this sweater, this thing will then put you in the place you want to be.

[1244] And once you get that, it can be jarring because you're really left with.

[1245] you're left with who you are, who you love, and, you know, your effort, I think your intention.

[1246] My intention is now I'm really invested in putting positivity into my work, into the world.

[1247] And that's very flowery and also very simple.

[1248] Well, I like that because I like to ask people what gives you self -esteem.

[1249] Because ultimately that is at the core of all this.

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] What is your list of things that make you generally?

[1252] content or like yourself?

[1253] One is continuing to learn something new.

[1254] You know, I got a shot as a writer and I wanted to learn more and do better and continue to grow.

[1255] So some of those opportunities have come to me and some I have created.

[1256] One of the things I'm proud of in terms of Gilmore Girls or Parenthood really is, is, you know, lifting up young people.

[1257] Well, females hopefully in particular.

[1258] They have a very hard.

[1259] Yeah.

[1260] Yeah, I have all these fucking issues as a 6 -2 white guy.

[1261] It's so unfair.

[1262] I have the most advantage anyone could possibly have in this country.

[1263] And to think I still don't like myself.

[1264] Well, I mean, I think everybody struggles.

[1265] I really do.

[1266] I don't know that many people who don't doubt themselves.

[1267] I don't know that many people who are completely satisfied.

[1268] I don't think it's the human condition.

[1269] You know, I don't think it has to do it.

[1270] And again, we're living in a world where, you know, whether it's Instagram or all the, there's so many ways to feel bad about yourself.

[1271] There's so many ways to put a life out there that isn't real.

[1272] It's curated.

[1273] Yes.

[1274] I think I'm coming back around to kind of a mom issue in a way.

[1275] And really looking into that a little bit more.

[1276] But in terms of what and kind of, so to answer your question, one is positivity and the other is kind of giving something away.

[1277] I think at best, you know, there is a purpose to, you know, this that is not about us and that I would bet was as important a piece of becoming an actor as anything, which is a real desire to tell a healing story for ourselves, but for people.

[1278] First of all, the world feels crazy right now.

[1279] And I think it is linked somewhat to the number of, this is where I'm going to sound like 200 years old, but to the number of shows and movies that are really, really harsh and violent and dark.

[1280] I don't know what came first.

[1281] Right, the anti -hero movement.

[1282] So much dystopia.

[1283] It's too much.

[1284] And when I go to look for something to watch, you know, with Peter or with his son or, you know, the choices are one more harrowing than the next.

[1285] And I don't think that's helping us.

[1286] You know, meanwhile, we sat as a family and watched every episode of Queer Eye.

[1287] And it's the most hopeful, you love it.

[1288] Yeah, you're always pitching that to me. I think almost every time I run into you, you'll bring a Queer Eye.

[1289] It's not true.

[1290] We just watched it this weekend.

[1291] What are you talking about?

[1292] It's new on Netflix.

[1293] Oh.

[1294] The new one.

[1295] Oh, okay.

[1296] What do you like Project Runway?

[1297] Yes, that's different.

[1298] Oh, okay.

[1299] You can see where I'm a little confused.

[1300] I like stuff I like stuff where people make things no give advice yes but I'm telling you one of the reasons we all loved it is it's happy it's hopeful it's it's it's what you want in in life instead of continually reaffirming you know do you think it's possible though there is a way to read all that as being positive ultimately which is if life is pretty darn good across the country then what is lacking in your life and what you want to see is kind of this weird, gnarly, underbelly, you know, bad anti -hero stuff that it's actually the thing that's missing, whereas I now see that there is a trend where there's more happy stuff coming out, which I think is almost a comment on the fact that people generally are feeling pessimistic about life in America.

[1301] And now we're looking for more wish fulfillment in the other direction.

[1302] I mean, I don't know.

[1303] That's my positive spin on it.

[1304] But I think it's kind of, you know, if everyone's poor, then a story like Willie Wonka, a little kid winning this thing.

[1305] It's very appealing because that's everyone's wish.

[1306] But everyone's, like, kind of fat on the farm, then you want to see something little dangerous and spicy.

[1307] I don't know.

[1308] To me, the phones, like, ruined everything, you know, and perhaps you as a Samsung's broke person cannot, cannot confront.

[1309] I'm no longer under their employees, so I can speak honestly about it.

[1310] I really, I mean, this goes into my, like, deep conspiracy theories, but I just feel we don't have the sensitivity.

[1311] did.

[1312] This is not a new theory, obviously, but as a result of this incredible information, bad, bad news dump that you get every day, people are really in, and I'm talking, I'm not speaking financially, I'm just speaking like psychologically overloaded.

[1313] There's a lot of things in the marketplace that we as ultimately primates, whose evolution kind of stopped a while ago, we're not equipped for.

[1314] So sugar, we're just not equipped for that.

[1315] Do you still not eat any sugar?

[1316] I don't.

[1317] But, but I had a bad run of it.

[1318] I'm newly back to not eating sugar since January first.

[1319] What are your other dietary?

[1320] Are you vegan now or no?

[1321] Oh, it's so annoying if I had to list it.

[1322] But I'm on an anti -inflammation diet for my arthritis and it's basically it's no eggs, no dairy, no gluten.

[1323] The only meat is turkey, lamb, and bison.

[1324] Is that because of your blood type or what is that?

[1325] I won't even try to defend the science.

[1326] It's fine.

[1327] I went to an Aravadic cleanse.

[1328] And they told me to eat this.

[1329] I tried it.

[1330] It actually worked.

[1331] When I do follow that, my arthritis is non -existent.

[1332] When I cheat, which is regularly, it flares up.

[1333] So whatever.

[1334] So also, they've hooked people up to brain monitoring devices and watch them use a slot machine, right?

[1335] So you get a reward dump, right, which is what you would get when you found fruit in the past and you're wandering through the jungle.

[1336] likewise this device is just triggering our pleasure center it's giving us like a you know a little dopamine dump and how on earth could we resist that we can't resist it's like finding a fucking apple every two feet you walk in the woods so uh yeah there's some stuff that we're just especially vulnerable to yeah and i think yeah this phone is one of them but you know i'm sure you have a version of this with two little girls but to see you know kids on it's it really has changed how they interact or don't part of me is like I hate it and another part of me is like okay so we're moving into a world which is AI and automation and 95 % of people are going to be unemployed and so we're training them to live their life through this technology which is probably what their lives will be at some point I have become my father and that growing up he was like microwaves they're bad for you VCRs you'll just watch more TV and I was like oh my god dad why I won't watch more I'll just watch better and then like now I'm like we are not not having one of those boxes that's listening to you in the house.

[1337] We are not.

[1338] And like I don't turn my phone on until like I shut it off at a certain time.

[1339] I turn it on.

[1340] You know, I don't keep it on.

[1341] I'm fighting it.

[1342] Daily more and more stuff makes zero sense to me. So that's all I know I'm getting older.

[1343] Right.

[1344] Things are starting to, I feel the way people felt about the Beatles in the 60s parents.

[1345] Yes.

[1346] And I go, well, here it is.

[1347] Yes.

[1348] I guess everyone was going to come eventually.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] And although Peter's son listens to a lot of good music.

[1351] A lot of like old music is from back.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] My kids already like hollow notes.

[1354] They love hollow notes and their babies.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Well, listen, Lauren, I love you so much.

[1357] I'm so glad that you came in.

[1358] And I'm really excited you're joining the podcast permanently as you declared publicly.

[1359] I'll bring you like snacks or something.

[1360] Yeah, great.

[1361] And next time maybe you don't bring your own coffee and I can make you one.

[1362] Okay.

[1363] Which would be a great offering on my part to you.

[1364] I would feel it would raise my self -esteem to provide for you.

[1365] I know.

[1366] But do I get a mug?

[1367] Yeah, yeah, you can have a mug.

[1368] They're like 14, 17 bucks.

[1369] How are you doing financially?

[1370] It's a sliding scale.

[1371] Do you accept Benmo?

[1372] I'm just going to call your guy.

[1373] I'll call your account and we'll see what we can get for this.

[1374] But I love you.

[1375] Thanks for coming by and I hope you do again.

[1376] I will.

[1377] Because we didn't, I got a million more questions.

[1378] I could talk to you all day.

[1379] We will.

[1380] Love you.

[1381] Stay tuned if you'd like to hear my good friend and producer Monica Padman point out the many errors in the podcast you just heard.

[1382] Monica Padman, fact check time for Lauren Graham.

[1383] Did we make any blunders?

[1384] Yes, a few.

[1385] Oh, shit.

[1386] Just a few.

[1387] Okay.

[1388] Lauren couldn't remember Jeff's name on the show flipping out, and his name is Jeff Lewis.

[1389] Jeff Lewis, National Treasure.

[1390] Yes.

[1391] We also talked about Chas Dean.

[1392] We talked about him for a good bit.

[1393] Sure.

[1394] Once you get on the topic of Chas Dean, it's hard to get off.

[1395] Yes.

[1396] I had recalled that he was wearing two of something in his billboard.

[1397] And it is two vests, though I actually think it's probably one vest upon closer examination that has like, but it looks like two vests.

[1398] The one vest is made to look like a vest on top of a vest.

[1399] Vest on vest.

[1400] It looks crazy.

[1401] Okay.

[1402] Although we would love to have Chazdine as a sponsor of this show.

[1403] When?

[1404] When.

[1405] It's a great product.

[1406] I have used it before and I did like it.

[1407] And we like it when people wear two vests.

[1408] Fuck, yeah.

[1409] The more vests, the better.

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] I think you need to take just a second to apologize to Neil Lane, okay?

[1412] I mean, he's huge.

[1413] He's huge.

[1414] And you kind of made it sound like he's just like some jeweler who ended up.

[1415] Well, listen, I'll tell you why I'm not going to apologize to Neil Lane, because, and I'm not going to tell the whole story, because I don't want to be liable for anything.

[1416] Suffice to say, when I had bought an engagement ring for Kristen, I was going to then wait a couple months to give it to her and then somehow this story hit the tabloids that I had bought an engagement ring.

[1417] I'm not going to say anything.

[1418] I'm just going to say I'm not going to apologize to me. Okay.

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] I'm not accusing of him anything officially, but I'm just saying there will not be a forthcoming apology from me. Okay.

[1421] Okay.

[1422] Interesting.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] I'll give you the full rundown when these mics are ice cold.

[1425] Okay.

[1426] But, and just real quick, another thing about Neil Lane, even though you probably don't want to hear anything about him.

[1427] No, he's actually a nice guy.

[1428] He is a nice guy.

[1429] I want to say that.

[1430] Yeah, he's on the, he's the jeweler of the bachelor.

[1431] Mm -hmm.

[1432] So I like him too.

[1433] And he, I think he's just involved with K -duelers.

[1434] I don't think he's like the face of K. You're not going to walk into a mall in Minneapolis, step into K -Jueler and find meal there.

[1435] He doesn't work the desk there.

[1436] Okay, okay.

[1437] No, I think it's like when Vera Wang has a, has a, has a, collection at Coles.

[1438] Oh, okay.

[1439] Or Missoni at Target.

[1440] Yes, exactly.

[1441] Okay, and then you sang the Kay Jewelers theme song, and you said every wish begins with Kay, and it's every kiss begins with Kay.

[1442] Oh, okay, good distinction to make.

[1443] Every kiss begins with Kay.

[1444] Yeah, you did it.

[1445] Oh, you know what?

[1446] It's not until this very moment that I realize why they say that, because the word kiss, begins with the letter K. I've never made that fucking connection.

[1447] You haven't either?

[1448] No. I've always just been like, what an arrogant statement.

[1449] Every kiss begins with K jewelers.

[1450] No, it doesn't.

[1451] They are literally correct.

[1452] They thought it through.

[1453] Every kiss begins with the letter K. Wow.

[1454] So you guys both talk about speaking in tongues.

[1455] This is also called glossolalia.

[1456] That's the real term.

[1457] A little close to glossolabia, which is not a good term.

[1458] Is that real?

[1459] No, but lelia sounds like labia.

[1460] What was it?

[1461] Glasolalia.

[1462] Glasolalia.

[1463] Glasolalia.

[1464] Your brain is just always on that.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] It really is.

[1467] That's right.

[1468] So speaking in tongues is a New Testament phenomenon where a person speaks in a language that is unknown to him previously.

[1469] Or her.

[1470] Correct.

[1471] Thank you.

[1472] You're such a massagious.

[1473] I'm glad I'm here to represent females.

[1474] Mental possession.

[1475] It's not the Lord talking through you?

[1476] Mental possession.

[1477] An apparition?

[1478] Yes.

[1479] Some heavenly being is speaking through you.

[1480] It's weird that they are heavenly, so I assume their powers are nearly unlimited, yet they can't speak English, which most people can learn in a pinch.

[1481] Yeah.

[1482] There's a carrot at the end of that.

[1483] Speaking of that, so you said you think God doesn't speak English because he wouldn't want to like tip his hat to who he liked the most.

[1484] Did I say that?

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] But truthfully, he would be speaking Hebrew if he was speaking a language.

[1487] Well, if he's the God of the Old Testament, right?

[1488] Yeah, but that's the God that speaks in tongues.

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] Yeah.

[1491] That's the same God.

[1492] Yeah.

[1493] So he would probably be speaking in Hebrew.

[1494] I hope we don't get a fat war or something now.

[1495] I know.

[1496] What's like going to happen?

[1497] You just waded us out into some very treacherous waters.

[1498] I'm excited to see what happens.

[1499] This just in.

[1500] Monica Padman says.

[1501] God speaks Hebrew.

[1502] Well, I'm willing to defend that if they come back to me. Okay.

[1503] In talking about fact checks and all the data that you spout, you said the distance between here and the sun is 93 million miles.

[1504] Which is also known as one astronomical unit, one AU.

[1505] And the moon you said is 180 ,000 miles.

[1506] I'm less positive about that claim.

[1507] Yeah, you're wrong about that one.

[1508] Okay.

[1509] That one is 238 ,900.

[1510] Oh, well, that's great, though.

[1511] 180 to 230.

[1512] I can live with that.

[1513] You were close.

[1514] Yeah, I mean, I expected to be off by a factor of 10 almost.

[1515] Okay.

[1516] Well, just commit it to memory next time you say it.

[1517] To what?

[1518] But I got to imagine that that must either be an average that you read because obviously it's at different distances.

[1519] No, maybe it's not.

[1520] Well, the Earth is not perfectly spherical.

[1521] Oh, fuck it.

[1522] Who knows?

[1523] I feel like there's got to be times where it's further and closer.

[1524] Maybe.

[1525] Probably not by that big of a distance.

[1526] Although maybe, because the universe is big.

[1527] 238 ,900.

[1528] Okay.

[1529] Okay.

[1530] You know what?

[1531] Let's split the difference.

[1532] I said 186.

[1533] You're saying 230.

[1534] In the future, I'm going to say it's about 200 ,000 miles away.

[1535] No. I feel like that's easier.

[1536] Okay.

[1537] That's the whole point of this.

[1538] All right.

[1539] Oh, my God.

[1540] Okay.

[1541] Oh, this is really interesting.

[1542] So the aptitude test that her dad took.

[1543] I looked into this.

[1544] I don't know if you took this exact same one.

[1545] Right.

[1546] But there is an aptitude test.

[1547] test called DLAB, defense language aptitude battery tests.

[1548] It's a military test to measure one's aptitude to learn a foreign language.

[1549] It consists of 126 multiple choice questions.

[1550] And then there are these different categories.

[1551] Like category one is Dutch, French, Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish.

[1552] Category two is German only, which is interesting.

[1553] Category three is Czech, Greek, Hebrew, Persian, Polish, Russian, Slavic, Thai, Turkish, Ukrainian, Belarusian, and Vietnamese.

[1554] Ooh, that's the one you'd want to crush.

[1555] That's the one he did crush.

[1556] Wow.

[1557] So he could go anywhere.

[1558] Uh -huh.

[1559] And then the fourth one is Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.

[1560] I think that's the hardest one.

[1561] I don't know if that's true.

[1562] Yeah, again, we're back into some hot, deep, treacherous, shark -infested waters.

[1563] But you place, you get different numbers.

[1564] Did you take this test?

[1565] No, I want to.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] I'm going to be, I'm going to get zero.

[1568] I'm so bad at languages.

[1569] I'll be half of whatever you get.

[1570] No, I'm really.

[1571] You just heard I had to cheat at Spanish to get through it in college.

[1572] Well, I didn't cheat, but I didn't like it.

[1573] Yeah.

[1574] I love Spanish.

[1575] But anyway, so.

[1576] We love all people.

[1577] Everyone's great.

[1578] So, you know, you score a number for each category for the military.

[1579] If they're like sending you somewhere, they look at your numbers.

[1580] If you've made a certain number on a certain thing, you, you like, qualify to be able to go.

[1581] Anyway.

[1582] Cool.

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] That is neat.

[1585] So I looked on a world map to see how she could have gone from Japan to the United States while also going through Russia.

[1586] Oh, uh -huh.

[1587] Yeah.

[1588] I thought it was bizarre, right?

[1589] It doesn't make sense.

[1590] It doesn't make any sense.

[1591] Okay.

[1592] It's very close to Russia, but it would be going the wrong way.

[1593] That's like a real janky, um, uh, internet deal on a flight.

[1594] It's like, you can go for $400 cheaper, but you got to connect through Moscow.

[1595] Go the opposite direction and then come all the way through.

[1596] Okay, so you asked if her mom did a course in miracles.

[1597] Course of, is it course on or course of miracles?

[1598] It is.

[1599] My father was into this.

[1600] People who were in AA in Michigan in the 90s seemed to really also like course of miracles.

[1601] I think it's course in me. I think you said course of miracles and I corrected it.

[1602] But now I'm wondering if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.

[1603] So course in miracles, also known as the course, was a big book in in 1976, that was like a self -study curriculum.

[1604] And that sounds right.

[1605] Spiritual transformation, right?

[1606] Mm -hmm.

[1607] And your dad liked it.

[1608] Yeah, loved it.

[1609] They were very into now, I believe, and he had a, what a charm around his neck, his necklace, and it was a clock.

[1610] And it's spelled now where one would, where 12 would be was an N, where six was a W. And then where nine was a was an N and where three was a W. So whether you read up to down, it said now or left to right, it said now.

[1611] Wow.

[1612] Uh -huh.

[1613] I think they sold a lot of wall clocks, too, that said now.

[1614] Wow.

[1615] It is Course and Miracles.

[1616] I just double -checked.

[1617] Okay, great.

[1618] Thank you for pointing that out in case someone wants to take on the curriculum.

[1619] They might want to.

[1620] Okay.

[1621] So you said cable came out when you were a kid.

[1622] Mm -hmm.

[1623] Okay.

[1624] Technically, cable TV came out in 1948.

[1625] And you were a kid.

[1626] You're right.

[1627] Yeah, okay, you just want to confirm I was correct.

[1628] The first few decades, it was used pretty much exclusively for just existing broadcast network systems that couldn't just receive airways.

[1629] So, yeah.

[1630] But then.

[1631] So that's that.

[1632] That's pretty much that.

[1633] The real, you're thinking of like MTV and original programming.

[1634] Yeah.

[1635] That started in the 70s.

[1636] Okay.

[1637] The first thing I remember coming out was on TV and It TV.

[1638] And they broadcasted over the airwaves on what became the Fox affiliate, WKBD.

[1639] And at 8 o 'clock, it scrambled.

[1640] And if you had this converter, the on TV converter, it turned that scrambled signal into a movie.

[1641] Oh, that's cool.

[1642] You brought up the Alexander technique yet again.

[1643] You bring this up a lot, okay?

[1644] And I've been meaning to correct you for a long time.

[1645] because you said that Kristen would breathe into people's mouths doing the Alexander technique.

[1646] And there's sweatsuits early in the morning in college.

[1647] And I've been skeptical of this because I was also a theater major in school.

[1648] And we learned, well, I'm going to.

[1649] And we also learned the Alexander technique.

[1650] But I never remember breathing in anyone's mouth.

[1651] Okay.

[1652] So I looked it up because I couldn't remember.

[1653] Sorry, schooling.

[1654] But, yeah, no. The Alexander technique is like a physical not breathing in your mouth.

[1655] Stretching, breathing, breathing in each other's mouth.

[1656] Yes, it's how to avoid a, no. It's how to avoid muscular tension while performing in the physical space.

[1657] Okay.

[1658] So in the future, in the future, I do want you to correct me. And I do want to learn from this experience.

[1659] But when I have a fantasy, okay, that's clearly just a fantasy about young coeds, breathing each other's mouse, wearing sweatsuits early in the morning, you know, hormones at a 10.

[1660] When I have a fantasy like that, you're not helping me by destroying that.

[1661] This is a unicorn that I want to believe in.

[1662] I'm sorry, but I have to fix you.

[1663] You say this so often.

[1664] You talk about the Alexander technique.

[1665] Well, think how many, how much business I've probably driven to the, there's probably like 60 -year -old divorced men now taking Alexander technique, assuming that they're going to get.

[1666] to breathe in someone's mouth.

[1667] This is exactly why we can't let this happen.

[1668] What if we get sued by some divorcee who took many courses and didn't once breathe in another person's mouth?

[1669] I'm really sorry to squash your fantasy.

[1670] I understand.

[1671] You can come up with more.

[1672] I think I believe in you to do that.

[1673] All right.

[1674] You said Essie Hinton was 14 when she wrote The Outsiders.

[1675] And she may have been when she was when she wrote it, but it was published when she was 17.

[1676] Oh, okay.

[1677] Susan Eloise.

[1678] Fucking awesome.

[1679] Did you know that's what it was she stood for?

[1680] No, I bet when I was younger I did, but I certainly don't now.

[1681] I follow her on Twitter and when I went to follow her, it said follow back or it said follows you and I almost get a back flip.

[1682] I mean, she really introduced me to reading, to loving to read those books about young men fighting and falling in love.

[1683] Oh, text.

[1684] Against all.

[1685] No, no, that's a different movie.

[1686] a text, the outsiders, a rumblefish.

[1687] Stand by me. No, no, no, that's Stephen King, I believe.

[1688] Anyway, she's a great young, she's the original YA, young adult.

[1689] Phenom.

[1690] You made kind of a, like a grumpy noise when Lauren said that she was in a cool acapella group.

[1691] Okay.

[1692] And there are cool acapella groups.

[1693] There's not.

[1694] Yes, there are.

[1695] Have you seen pitch perfect?

[1696] The film?

[1697] Yeah.

[1698] No, but I'm so happy for everyone involved because it's wildly successful.

[1699] And Elizabeth Banks is cool.

[1700] And they're good movies and the Acapella Groups.

[1701] Some of them are cool.

[1702] Okay?

[1703] And the Acapella Group at Barnard, which she went to, I think is called Baconte.

[1704] Let's really quick for the sake of this argument.

[1705] establish some kind of metric for cool.

[1706] Now, you're going to have to do it for females and I'm going to do it for guys.

[1707] And of course, as a young person, that metric has to be success with the opposite sex.

[1708] I'm sorry.

[1709] And what I would argue is that never in the history of this world that someone come up to a lady at a bar and say, I am a member of the whooping cops or whatever the heck it is, wolf and poofs.

[1710] You're wrong.

[1711] I'm going to have correct.

[1712] And then that person said, oh, tell me more.

[1713] That's not true.

[1714] That's not true?

[1715] Mm -mm.

[1716] Okay.

[1717] Not for the females.

[1718] Well, hit me with the female metric.

[1719] No, that is the metric.

[1720] But it does happen.

[1721] You're saying that there are females that they learn that the guy is in a choir.

[1722] And then they need to find the closest dark room to make out.

[1723] Yes.

[1724] Oh, my goodness.

[1725] Yes, it does happen.

[1726] You bring one to this attic.

[1727] Have you ever been to an acapella concert?

[1728] Have you ever?

[1729] No, no. I have.

[1730] Okay.

[1731] Well, I don't want to interrupt you.

[1732] Tell me, is it awesome?

[1733] Yeah, they're very cool.

[1734] And it's very impressive.

[1735] And very sexy.

[1736] Women are attracted to men in their element.

[1737] That's true.

[1738] That's true.

[1739] I would agree with that.

[1740] So.

[1741] But can we can we just, again, you cannot, the metric of cool cannot be the weird niche that's attending the events.

[1742] That's not helpful to us.

[1743] That's like saying, you know, guys who love Dungeons and Dragons are super cool and they're getting late all the time.

[1744] Because at a Dungeons and Dragons Conference in an arena somewhere, there's a lot of fecundity.

[1745] That's not a good example.

[1746] Some a cappella groups at certain schools are so well known.

[1747] Yeah, they're a big part of the school.

[1748] And people attend that aren't in like corresponding acapella groups.

[1749] I didn't, I wasn't in an aquapella group and I ended up at two or three of those.

[1750] Okay.

[1751] And you were hot for many of the male performers?

[1752] Yeah, I thought it was hot.

[1753] Okay.

[1754] All right.

[1755] They do contemporary songs.

[1756] Great.

[1757] So guys, forget the muscle car and start working on your vibrato.

[1758] Vibretto.

[1759] What is it?

[1760] Is that vibrato?

[1761] Vobroto.

[1762] Does it?

[1763] Intimidate me because I can't sing.

[1764] Yeah.

[1765] Or does it, do you feel threatened by this?

[1766] Because you do, you have spent so much time trying to be a tracking to the opposite sex.

[1767] Yes, by masculine standards.

[1768] Yeah.

[1769] Well, you know, truth but told, I think, you know, as much as.

[1770] I'd like to think that all my success derived from my arrival on a motorcycle, the more objective side of myself knows it was probably being able to make someone laugh.

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] So despite, but so I could admit that, you know what I'm saying?

[1773] There's the version I think I would like people to be attracted to, but that's probably not what they're attracted to in me. Yeah, you're right.

[1774] They don't care that I'm missing a knuckle on my right hand.

[1775] Yes, but I'm not trying to attract other men.

[1776] Yeah.

[1777] By the way, you do want men to be attracted to you.

[1778] Well, in general, I think we could say I like to flirt with every human on planet.

[1779] So, yeah, I don't exclude any gender.

[1780] Great.

[1781] So you said, and you just said it again, that Harvard has an a cappella group called the Whooping Coughs.

[1782] Okay.

[1783] I have no idea why you think that.

[1784] Well, now that you said it, I realize Whooping Cough is a bad disorder.

[1785] Yes, it's tuberculosis.

[1786] Yes, because my lawyer, Jamie Feldman, who's in Brothers Justice, which you saw, he is a proud member of the whooping coughs.

[1787] Okay.

[1788] Well, you had said Harvard, so I did some research into Harvard groups.

[1789] Hold on, though.

[1790] I want to find.

[1791] I'm worried that our female listeners right now are getting so agitated downstairs with all this talk about these acabella singers.

[1792] You're worried or you're excited?

[1793] I'm worried because now that I know how hot they are, according to you and this new metric, I am concerned that our female listeners are having to pull over on the side of the road.

[1794] They really are.

[1795] Or find their way into.

[1796] Yeah.

[1797] Look, if I could give that gift to anyone, I would be, I'd feel like this is a victory.

[1798] Okay.

[1799] Yale's Acapella Group is the whiff and poofs.

[1800] Uh -huh.

[1801] Easily confused with.

[1802] Harvard.

[1803] Harvard has many, not the whooping coughs.

[1804] and they have 14.

[1805] Oh, fuck this.

[1806] I can't bear to listen to all 14.

[1807] I'm gonna.

[1808] No, no, you're not.

[1809] Can I please?

[1810] No, you can do four.

[1811] Four, my favorite four.

[1812] People will unsubscribe if you read 14 Acapella groups.

[1813] All right, go ahead.

[1814] I'll do it so fast.

[1815] The callbacks.

[1816] The cliff notes, all female.

[1817] The din and tonics.

[1818] Fallen Angels.

[1819] Glee Club.

[1820] Light.

[1821] Key change.

[1822] The crocodilios.

[1823] The low keys.

[1824] The oper tunes, the rad cliff pitches, under construction, veritones, box jazz, and shawnee.

[1825] I don't know if, I don't know if that's how you pronounce it, but that's the Jewish -affiliated one.

[1826] I'm going to be walking on the street one day, and someone from the whooping coughs is going to come just belt me in the nose.

[1827] They're going to cold -cock me for talking so disparagingly about these groups.

[1828] They're going to be upset that you are still calling it the whooping cough.

[1829] Okay, next fact, next fact.

[1830] We got really bogged down.

[1831] You said that 10 % of the auditions you went on, required dancing to know music.

[1832] Do you really think it was 10 %?

[1833] No, it wasn't.

[1834] It was probably 1 % right?

[1835] Yeah, probably.

[1836] Okay.

[1837] But boy, 1 % dancing, it feels like 50 % because it's so uncomfortable.

[1838] Lauren did 113 shows on Broadway, as you said, but they also did 28 previews.

[1839] So that's 28 additional shows.

[1840] That's a lot.

[1841] So in the 140s there.

[1842] You guys are talking about therapy and the kind of therapy where you have to talk to your younger self.

[1843] and that's called ACT, acceptance and commitment therapy.

[1844] Oh, act.

[1845] ACT, act.

[1846] It's a part of behavioral therapy.

[1847] It's a section of that.

[1848] And any Alexander technique in that?

[1849] Probably.

[1850] Breathe into the mouth of your own, your own mouth.

[1851] Baby version of you's mouth.

[1852] Oh, you guys were talking about the reward dump that happens with devices, the like vagusy models that our devices are based off of.

[1853] So I just wanted to send people to treat.

[1854] Riston Harris, who is the guy who worked at Google.

[1855] Oh, Google, yes.

[1856] He made the rounds.

[1857] Yeah, and he's hot on this topic and very interesting because he worked at Google and he knows a lot about these ethics.

[1858] And triggering your reward center, right, in your brain?

[1859] Yeah, we can't compete.

[1860] You said 95 % of people are going to be unemployed under AI and automation.

[1861] And I really looked and I couldn't find 95 % is the number.

[1862] Are you talking about Eval, Ferraris' book?

[1863] Yeah.

[1864] I always appreciate it when you pronounce his name because I can't do it.

[1865] So thank you for saying.

[1866] Yvall Harari.

[1867] And I don't even try that.

[1868] It's YV -A -L, I believe.

[1869] Okay.

[1870] Yvall.

[1871] Yeah.

[1872] Harari.

[1873] But he has a lot to say on this.

[1874] He was on Sam Harris.

[1875] Uh -huh.

[1876] And but I don't think he says 95%.

[1877] Okay.

[1878] He does say that it's going to replace a lot of jobs.

[1879] Yeah.

[1880] Hopefully not actors.

[1881] Probably not actors.

[1882] What if they replace podcasters and you're listening?

[1883] and literally two robots talk to each other.

[1884] Could you imagine?

[1885] Was that it?

[1886] That's it.

[1887] Oh, thank you so much.

[1888] And also, again, just a quick reminder to sprint out to Amazon .com to buy Lauren's new book.

[1889] Get in your car, drive to the closest Amazon, and buy her new book, which is called Monica.

[1890] In conclusion, don't worry about it.

[1891] In conclusion, don't worry about it.

[1892] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1893] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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