Bubba Wallace

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts on expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard, and I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

[2] Hello there.

[3] How are you doing?

[4] I'm doing great.

[5] How are the mice?

[6] I know you're the secretary of mice.

[7] The mice are doing pretty good.

[8] They had a nice long weekend.

[9] They got really drunk.

[10] Oh, okay.

[11] So they're nursing some hangovers.

[12] Yeah, those mice will lap up a little liquor out of a liquor cap.

[13] That's right.

[14] You leave one on the ground.

[15] That's right.

[16] Are the mice excited about Spotify?

[17] They are so excited.

[18] They are.

[19] Yeah, they've...

[20] You hear them clamoring around once they're drunk?

[21] They've all made accounts and they're really excited.

[22] They're mostly excited because it's free.

[23] It's free.

[24] It's absolutely free.

[25] All you got to do is download the app.

[26] It's so easy.

[27] You're just going to pick that app over the other app that you might have been using.

[28] But probably you're already on Spotify.

[29] Point is, it's so simple.

[30] Also, we have an incredible first guest for Spotify that I'm so excited.

[31] Yeah, we do.

[32] So for me, July, I couldn't get here quick enough because I cannot wait to release that guest.

[33] Yeah.

[34] But I'm also very excited to release this.

[35] This guest.

[36] Me too.

[37] Bubba Wallace.

[38] Bubba Wallace.

[39] Bubba Wallace, want to rock you?

[40] Want to rock you?

[41] Bubba Wallace?

[42] It's all I want to do.

[43] Want to love you.

[44] Want to hug you?

[45] You want to squeeze you too.

[46] You can cut this out, Monica.

[47] Bubba Wallace is a professional stock car racing driver.

[48] He competes full time in the NASCAR Cup series as well as part time in the NASCAR camping world truck series.

[49] Now, amazing spokesperson for NASCAR.

[50] We had such a blast talking to him.

[51] Yeah.

[52] And I normally am not.

[53] I don't know much about it.

[54] It's not really my thing.

[55] but he was so interesting and cool.

[56] Yeah, he's very, very engaging and charismatic.

[57] And I'm going to tell you something, he's very handsome.

[58] Very.

[59] Because you don't have to be good looking to be a race car driver.

[60] That's kind of the beauty of it.

[61] You're wearing a helmet all the time.

[62] It's like us.

[63] It's like podcasters.

[64] Yes, we can afford to look the way we do.

[65] But it's a shame that Bubba's in a helmet, to be honest with you.

[66] Yeah.

[67] Please enjoy Bubba Wallace.

[68] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[69] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[70] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[71] He's an object, Yeah, so, so sorry, all my fault.

[72] I had packed up all the gear to go to Seattle, and then I came down to the attic to record and realized it was all back up in my suitcase, and I had to set it all back up.

[73] I'm so sorry, a thousand apologies.

[74] No worries.

[75] No worries.

[76] That was only one apology.

[77] but not a thousand i'll take it though yeah in general people don't receive apologies very often do they can you think of the last time someone like called you up and gave you a sincere hey darrell listen man i thought it over and i was out of line i'm sorry that's a really good question i don't think that's a thing anymore um i think we just let it roll off the sleeve and and then you see that person the next time you're just like ah we're over it yeah yeah yeah well i know that that because I'm sober, so I have to give people apologies all the time.

[78] And often I recognize as I'm giving them an apology, like, oh, they haven't heard one of these in a decade.

[79] Where are you at?

[80] Are you in North Carolina?

[81] Yeah, I'm at home.

[82] We are in Concord, North Carolina.

[83] Yeah, so when I was reading about you today, I discovered that you were from Concord.

[84] And then my first thought was, do you know the Avid brothers?

[85] I don't.

[86] I want to say I've met them once, but I don't know them.

[87] Obviously, I know of them.

[88] But Jimmy Johnson, who we all know of is a really big avi brothers fan yeah knows them really well i don't even care if that's your cup of tea musically it'll become your cup of tea if you see them live that's cool i'll definitely have to put that on list funny now that i'm it's kind of coming back i played golf with their manager oh okay yeah so we have a connection there so you play golf as well i have some golf clubs, yes, yes, yes.

[89] It's so frustrating.

[90] I've been playing on and off for about seven, eight years now, and just picked it back up, like, about early last year, just, like, heavily.

[91] COVID?

[92] Yeah, you had time to do it.

[93] And then getting back into it, getting your buddies to get out there.

[94] So now we have, like, a whole group that's like, hey, you want to play golf today?

[95] Uh -huh.

[96] We're getting out there.

[97] Now, have you played with your new boss yet?

[98] No. Really quick.

[99] Hold on, Monica, you know who his new boss is?

[100] M .J. Michael Jordan.

[101] What?

[102] See, now she's excited.

[103] Yeah, she just went from like NASCAR thing we're doing, but now she's in.

[104] For a second, I thought.

[105] Michael Jackson.

[106] Yes, and I was like, how, okay, how do I react and how is it possible?

[107] No, MJ, the goat, yes, yes.

[108] So we were down in Daytona to kick off the season and we were sitting there.

[109] He had rented out a motor home and so we were on the backstretch.

[110] I think we were watching the truck race and they were right.

[111] there on the backstretch.

[112] Super cool.

[113] We were hanging out, having dinner, and we were talking about golf.

[114] And he says, just out of the blue, you golf, right?

[115] I was like, yeah, sometimes.

[116] He's like, I heard you suck.

[117] And I was like, oh, no. So that golf conversations, yeah, yeah, slowly was like, yeah, I guess I don't.

[118] Next conversation.

[119] So I have not golfed with him.

[120] You're Michael Jordan.

[121] Asked me if I golf.

[122] Do you golf?

[123] Yeah, about as good as you race cars.

[124] That was the first moment of the first day I met him.

[125] Yeah, that's aggressive.

[126] I don't know, though.

[127] Did you watch Last Dance?

[128] That's kind of how he responds.

[129] That's how, yes.

[130] Steve Kerr was like, you're going to beat my ass, but you're going to get a fight.

[131] That's true.

[132] That's true.

[133] That's a good point.

[134] I like that.

[135] I'll put that in the back pocket.

[136] Now, we'll get to MJ, because that's such an exciting development.

[137] But you were born in Mobile, Alabama.

[138] And then you relocated to Concord.

[139] How long were you in Mobile?

[140] Two years.

[141] So from birth to two years old, so I don't remember one thing about it.

[142] Sure, sure, sure.

[143] And so Concord's home.

[144] Concord's home, yep.

[145] So I'm from Detroit.

[146] All I ever wanted to do was race.

[147] Single mother just was not going to happen on our budget.

[148] We couldn't buy a go car.

[149] We couldn't do any of the baby steps.

[150] So how did you get into it?

[151] Yeah, so the neighborhood we moved into from Mobile right there in Concord.

[152] My dad had a go -kart, like one that he would go and race.

[153] Oh, really?

[154] Yeah, I had no interest, didn't even know.

[155] know what anything was.

[156] He just had it.

[157] I remember we used to go to my elementary school, like on the weekends, and he would park at the gate.

[158] It's one of the gates that's like the long swinging arms, both sides.

[159] You could just walk underneath.

[160] Yeah.

[161] And we would park at the gate and unload the go cart and push it under the gate, and he would go make laps in the parking lot.

[162] Uh -huh.

[163] I remember that.

[164] And I would sit there and watch, and it was way too fast.

[165] And I was like, nope, I'm ready to go back and play tag and hide and go seek with friends in the neighborhood.

[166] And so I I remember going to the racetrack with him and not watching one race, but I knew he went three times and that he flipped all three times.

[167] On a car.

[168] Yeah, and a cart.

[169] That's hard to do.

[170] Which, no, the open carts, if you wheel hop somebody.

[171] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[172] Run up on a back wheel.

[173] It's easy to launch off somebody doing that.

[174] So fast forward about, I would say I was probably five or six of that time.

[175] Fast forward three or four years later, we moved to a new house still in Concord.

[176] And my dad had bought a Harley Davidson.

[177] and the guy who fixed it up for him, he raced go -carts, and he invited us to come out and watch him.

[178] We got to know him, really good family friend, invited us to come out and watch one weekend, and my dad was used to it, obviously, and he was like, man, what do you think?

[179] You want to try it?

[180] And I was like, sure, why not?

[181] And so we went out and bought a champ cart, which is one with a roll cage.

[182] Oh, okay.

[183] And went racing, and that was that.

[184] I don't want to get too esoteric today, which I'll be inclined to do.

[185] Was the dad racing a shifter car or like a push -and -go?

[186] No, push -and -go.

[187] You just...

[188] Okay.

[189] And then the one you started in was not a shifter either.

[190] No. No, I've only driven a shifter like just for fun, like once or twice.

[191] And those things are a beast.

[192] I have one.

[193] And I think it's the funnest thing I've ever driven in my life.

[194] It's a hell of a workout.

[195] My goodness.

[196] There's a lot going on.

[197] Yes, for sure.

[198] So when you got in the car at nine, was it something that you immediately loved?

[199] Or was driving fun, but the competition element was intimidating?

[200] Like, how did it roll out?

[201] it was just super like really fun like our first race was a national event down in jasper florida 300 400 carts like we bought the go cart on friday and it was like hey we're going to florida tomorrow race it's like oh shit all right okay and i got beaten and banged up and and just like the cart was mangled but i asked my dad like hey can we fix it and go back out and he was like yeah sure and from that point on i didn't have any fear i didn't really necessarily know what we were doing but we practiced a lot.

[202] Like we were at the track, like almost every day, just running laps, logging laps and setting up cones to show you where to run and whatnot.

[203] I actually almost killed my dad.

[204] They were standing on the racetrack and had a cone here and had a cone there or just run around this cone, whatever.

[205] Well, I guess it was late in the day and I forgot what to do and ran over the cone and my dad.

[206] Oh!

[207] Yeah, he went like 30 feet in the air, he says, and landed on his back and he was like, I'm still alive, we're good.

[208] So he got back up, hobbled his way, and it was like, let's keep going.

[209] So, yeah, that was that was that.

[210] Was he really pushing you to, like he was really excited that you were into it?

[211] Yeah, he was.

[212] At first, for the longest, it may have been, I was living not his dream of racing carts and everything.

[213] But I quickly adapted to it and really loved it from the traveling standpoint, from the competition standpoint.

[214] It was super tough, but just continued to do it.

[215] year after year we were progressing and getting better uh you maybe just gave me like a little glimpse of my future which is my daughter's eight and i'm like it's probably cart time i think we're there she drives a razor she rides a motorcycle and i'm like i think yeah but i'm trying to yeah i'll be trying to walk that line between like because this is the child that i wanted of course so i'm trying to like let her lead but it's hard i just want to throw her in there and go like you got this just expose her to it just be like hey let's go to a go car race yeah and then let's Let's see what she says from there.

[216] With any luck, she'll plow through me at 80 miles an hour.

[217] Send me up in the air.

[218] So that was pretty young, 9, 10.

[219] So that's elementary school.

[220] Did you dig the scene that surrounded that?

[221] Like you're with other kids that are into the same thing.

[222] I guess what I'm curious about is like, what was your scene at school, an elementary school in Concord, versus what was your scene when you were traveling and racing?

[223] Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of friends both at the racetrack and at school.

[224] As you started to do it more and you get older, your family becomes bigger at the racetrack, just because you're there every weekend.

[225] You see those same familiar faces more than you see at school or even at home, your own family.

[226] But back then, at the racetrack, we were playing football.

[227] We were off out in the woods, down in the creek, at the racetrack.

[228] Uh -huh.

[229] Like minutes before racing, and I remember my dad multiple times yelling and running, let's go, you're going to miss the race, you know, chewing our ass because we were late.

[230] But we all made it.

[231] We all had fun.

[232] It was showing up and having a good time, had no obligations.

[233] We were just there.

[234] You had to go practice, qualify, and race.

[235] In the meantime of those three events, you were hanging out, having fun with your buddies, whatever it was.

[236] Yeah.

[237] And your mom's like a crazy athlete, right?

[238] She competed on some college level athletically?

[239] Yeah.

[240] Yeah.

[241] She ran track at University of Tennessee.

[242] Yep.

[243] And are they both from the South originally?

[244] Yeah.

[245] So my dad's from Nashville.

[246] My mom is from Knoxville, so both Tennessee.

[247] And so when you were having fantasies as a little kid, was like the carding just an activity you did?

[248] Or did you have dreams of being a race car driver?

[249] No, I played basketball when I was five, five to eight, following my sister's footsteps.

[250] She had started basketball.

[251] I don't know when she started, but she was a baller, always going to national events with her and tournaments and everything.

[252] So my life was at the gym.

[253] So it just felt natural, it felt right to go there and be a basketball player.

[254] And then racing came about.

[255] And so that quickly shifted gears.

[256] And I never watched NASCAR, never thought about being a race car driver.

[257] I dressed up as Halloween.

[258] My uncle raced Nashville Fairgrounds.

[259] He did some super truck stuff, late model stuff.

[260] That was it.

[261] So I dressed up as a race car driver for Halloween, but didn't do it because I wanted to be a race car driver.

[262] I just, hey, this is cool.

[263] I wear my uncle's fire suit.

[264] And it was like 10 times my size at that point.

[265] It was swallowing me, of course.

[266] But we enjoyed it.

[267] It was probably the good kind of fire suit with real asbestos in it, too.

[268] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[269] It was old school for sure.

[270] The open face helmet.

[271] Oh, yeah, for sure.

[272] Yes.

[273] We were at the go -kart track.

[274] My dad asked me, up until that point, it was never even a thought.

[275] Yeah.

[276] I think that's preferred.

[277] Yeah.

[278] I think it's a better way to go through it.

[279] Like, them being so singularly driven on, am I on pace?

[280] Am I hitting this marker?

[281] Am I hitting that marker?

[282] Yeah, I'm figuring out everything.

[283] Every race is, I'm obviously, 17, 18 years into my career, but every race is a new opportunity to learn something.

[284] Yeah.

[285] So eventually you get, like, damn good, right?

[286] I think you're 16 or so, and you're in the bandaleros?

[287] Bandaleros, yeah.

[288] We were only, we were 11, 11 at the time.

[289] Okay, and you won like 35 of 48 races or 38 of 45 or something?

[290] Yeah, 35 out of 48.

[291] Yeah, I think that's the number.

[292] Okay.

[293] 38 out of 45 sounds better, though, so I might do it.

[294] Yeah, yeah.

[295] Well, if I say it enough, it'll find its way to Wikipedia, probably.

[296] Yeah.

[297] Yeah.

[298] Maybe by the time you retire, it'll be like 43 out of 44 races.

[299] Yeah.

[300] Yeah.

[301] I only ran five, but I won 40 races.

[302] Yeah, something like that.

[303] Okay.

[304] Now, so winning feels good.

[305] Like, at that point, does anything, that's sorry about this glare behind me. It's fucking brutal.

[306] Oh, you're good.

[307] You're good.

[308] Yeah, once you...

[309] Did I fucking up worse?

[310] It made it way worse.

[311] Hold on a second.

[312] I'm going to do one thing.

[313] I'm going to do one thing.

[314] I'm going to do one thing.

[315] It's driving me nuts.

[316] We were already late and now we're doing this.

[317] This is embarrassing.

[318] All good.

[319] A little better, yeah.

[320] I mean, it was for him, not for me. Yeah, they didn't do anything.

[321] Fucking, eh.

[322] Okay, well, look, I gave it the college try.

[323] It's a little bit.

[324] It's a little better.

[325] Marginally better.

[326] 43 out of 45.

[327] There you go.

[328] So when you start winning like that at 12, now are we starting to think like, shit, maybe I'll make a living at this?

[329] No, I did not.

[330] It's so funny.

[331] We just race to race.

[332] when you go, say you're nine and under, the 10 and unders are playing after you.

[333] And then if you're 10 and unders, the 11 and 12 and unders are after you.

[334] So you're always kind of exposed to like the bigger leagues, the next step.

[335] Yeah.

[336] And so that's how it was for us.

[337] So when I was racing a go cart, Bandaleros were there.

[338] And that was like, whoa, those cars are cool.

[339] Wait, can I get a little more info on the Bandolero?

[340] Yeah.

[341] So it's like a quarter -sized car.

[342] It has like 35 horsepower Briggs and Stratton motor in it.

[343] And so you could go about 50 to 60 miles per hour.

[344] Oh, wow, at 11.

[345] Yeah, go -kart, you're about 30 miles an hour, depending on track you go to as well.

[346] But vandaleros were bigger size, not full -sized car, but roll cage, body on it and everything.

[347] Go -cart, you're super exposed.

[348] I had a roll cage around me. So, yeah, I moved into the bandaleros, and I was like, all right, hung up the go -carts, put them on the wall, put them on the shelf, and went bandalero racing.

[349] Well, you start going to some Bandolera races that had legend cars there, which is a little bit bigger car.

[350] They're basically a street bike or a crotch rocket on four wheels.

[351] Same motor, 1 ,200 -cc motor, just four wheels, super hard to drive.

[352] The power weight ratio is a lot of fun.

[353] Big tracks we get to about 90 miles an hour, 100 maybe at the really big tracks.

[354] So like I'm saying, you're exposed to every level.

[355] So when I was doing Bandaleros, I'm like, all right, we're getting good at it.

[356] And my dad would be like, all right, we've kind of maxed out on this.

[357] Hey, what about a legend car?

[358] And I'm like, okay, sure, let's do it.

[359] You know, I never seen it as, okay, after a legend car, will we go late model?

[360] And after late model, will we go to NASCAR?

[361] You did what it was in front of you.

[362] Yes, exactly.

[363] I'm jumping ahead now.

[364] But it's interesting to me that you have depression with that mental mindset because I feel like that right there is the antidote to depression, which is like, if you can just be doing the thing in front of you.

[365] and not obsessing about what's ahead of you or behind you, that's like the sweet spot of where you'd want to be.

[366] Yeah, I'm a very realistic person.

[367] Some people may call it pessimistic, but I just call it how I see it.

[368] I don't bullshit anything.

[369] I'm very much in the moment person, yes.

[370] But it's so hard when you have other people having these expectations for you and you don't meet them.

[371] And you kind of start to latch on to those expectations.

[372] And then when you fail, that's when the drop comes.

[373] That's when it's like, what happened?

[374] And you start to shut everything out.

[375] Yeah, because you would aim as a human to be in the process business, like in the driving business.

[376] That's what you're in.

[377] But everyone around you is in the results business, as are you.

[378] You are, unfortunately, in the results business in the most epic, measurable way possible.

[379] And I would imagine, I, too, am a pessimist, but I hate disappointing people.

[380] So even if I could be in the moment and just try to enjoy.

[381] the race for the race.

[382] Once people were disappointed and it was on my shoulders, that would devastate me, I think.

[383] Yeah, no, it's super tough.

[384] I have a lot of moments inside the car where when you're not performing at your peak level, you start to, one, have self -doubt.

[385] And then that creates you being a hater of yourself, you being one of those people that you try to shut out.

[386] Yeah.

[387] And expectations come.

[388] It's like, well, we should be running here.

[389] We should be doing this.

[390] You suck.

[391] you're not good.

[392] Why are you doing this?

[393] I've had those moments for sure.

[394] And that just drives you into a really dark place and it sucks.

[395] And I'm with you.

[396] I don't like disappointing people either, but I'm still trying to grasp on to, I don't care what people think.

[397] It's tough.

[398] It's tough to say that and back that up 100%.

[399] At times I can do it, I can wake up and be like, I don't give a damn.

[400] But then other times it's like, I don't give a damn, I kind of do.

[401] You know?

[402] Yeah, of course.

[403] I'm course.

[404] Yeah.

[405] Well, you wouldn't be human if you were totally in a vacuum.

[406] Right.

[407] That's true.

[408] We all have feelings.

[409] No matter how tough we play the hard role or whatever you want to be, the competitor role.

[410] We talked about apologizing earlier.

[411] We don't apologize much, but then at the end of the day, it's like, damn, apology would be nice.

[412] Or I should have apologized.

[413] If the log had been kept of the sentences I've said to myself in my head over the last 46 years, the number one would be, you're such a piece of shit.

[414] I got that's probably like the most that's that's queued up at all times like fuck what a you're such a piece of shit and it is funny like this is why I've not responded well to coaching I think in my life is that I'm way more mad at me that you could ever be I'm more disappointed in me that you could ever be 100 % I am the same way people are frustrated and I'm like yeah well you don't know how frustrated I am with myself yes step in here if you want to experience true frustration that's it Yeah, Jews.

[415] It's so funny.

[416] You always ask people to, like, walk in your shoes.

[417] I don't know if you can live in this mental mindset.

[418] Yeah.

[419] It's tough.

[420] It's a double -edged sword, though.

[421] All your superpowers come from that as well.

[422] That's very true.

[423] So being able to compartmentalize things, you know, people ask me, what's one of your strengths?

[424] When I was a kid, I'm like, going fast.

[425] I don't know.

[426] Yeah.

[427] But now you've had a lot of time to reflect and talk about things and deal with high -stress situations and still go out and perform, and I label it as compartmentalizing things.

[428] We're focused on this podcast right now, but if I have a race in the next hour, I'll worry about that when that hour comes.

[429] And try not to have too much on the plate.

[430] Yeah.

[431] Now, did you watch the Tiger documentary, Tiger Woods?

[432] I have not.

[433] I need to add that to the list.

[434] Oh, my God.

[435] I haven't watched that yet.

[436] I forgot all about it.

[437] It's phenomenal.

[438] I'm frustrated with myself.

[439] I disappointed you.

[440] See?

[441] You want to talk about a master of compartmentalization.

[442] like on another level.

[443] I can only imagine.

[444] So what he does is there's all these periods of no activity, a tremendous amount of thought where I would psych myself out.

[445] Like the 20 minutes before you tee up, you know, and then between each shot, whereas you're active nonstop.

[446] So it's like you can get in your head, but also there's a turn coming up every seven seconds.

[447] Yet on the spectrum of racing, there is more time in NASCAR than probably.

[448] any other racing to get in your own head, right?

[449] Because it's like, I'm super into Formula One.

[450] Yep, yep.

[451] It's a 70 minute race generally.

[452] It's 60 to 70 laps or whatever it is, 45 to 70 laps.

[453] And it's generally 13 to 19 turns.

[454] And so things are happening so, so fast.

[455] There's no real rhythm.

[456] And what you're doing, you're out there for 400 laps, sometimes more.

[457] And repeating a lot of the stuff.

[458] So, yeah, I would imagine on the spectrum, you are like in between golf.

[459] in Formula One as far as opportunity to spiral.

[460] For NASCAR, I mean, we have the stage breaks, we'll have a debris caution, whatever may be.

[461] And so you have time.

[462] It's like, who, it's hot.

[463] You suck.

[464] Why aren't you doing better?

[465] You know?

[466] And so you do have a lot more time.

[467] And even like Super Speedway coming up Talladega, as crazy as that is, middle of four wide, whatever it is, five wide at times.

[468] Yeah.

[469] You still have time to think like, what's for lunch later?

[470] What's for dinner later?

[471] it's like snap out of it you know so i definitely need to do a better job at that but look it's up to us you have to be mentally strong to just hey turn left turn left hit this mark turn left just stay focus don't let the outside influence what's going on inside well that's what's weird and i think for people who aren't into racing to them it probably all appears the same but it is so fascinating the different skill sets required for each kind.

[472] So as we just talked about, like Formula One has its own things.

[473] They're like managing all this tech, like what tires they're going to run and what time they're going to pay.

[474] There's just so many chest movements going on.

[475] Yeah.

[476] But yours is you're in that car for so long.

[477] And it is a war of attrition, a NASCAR race.

[478] Wait, how long?

[479] No doubt.

[480] 400 laps, 600 laps.

[481] You'll race for, what, three hours sometimes?

[482] Three hours.

[483] The Coke 600 is the longest.

[484] race, and it's about four and a half hours.

[485] Oh, my God.

[486] So imagine staying focused from here to your drive to Vegas.

[487] Oh.

[488] Like a thousand percent dialed in.

[489] Oh, that makes so much percent.

[490] I was like, you're thinking about how hot it is?

[491] I don't understand, but yeah, four hours.

[492] The heat is a big factor.

[493] So in middle of the summer, we'll get to about 150 degrees in a car.

[494] Ah.

[495] Yeah.

[496] But we're there for three, four hours, four and a half hours, whatever it may be.

[497] You got cautions.

[498] you got red flags depending on the situation.

[499] So you have time to stop at a rest area, stop at a gas station, do what you got to do.

[500] We can't use the bathroom.

[501] I don't use the bathroom.

[502] You don't have a catheter or anything?

[503] No, no, I don't think anybody does.

[504] No one does.

[505] Do people just piss in their race suit then?

[506] I've heard people doing that.

[507] I think it's been a long time since that.

[508] I haven't thrown up, but people have thrown up and just keep going.

[509] Darrell, I can barely make it through one of these interviews without having to piss.

[510] There's just absolutely no way I could fucking do it.

[511] I'd need an option.

[512] It's tough.

[513] It's super tough.

[514] But when you put a concrete barrier around you and you're like, if you hit, this motherfucker's going to hurt when you hit.

[515] Sure.

[516] That brings up that attention span.

[517] Just another couple notches.

[518] It's like, hey, don't hit that.

[519] Do whatever you have to do to not hit that.

[520] This is what I want to say to Monica.

[521] Okay, so you're leaving Los Angeles and you're going to race to Las Vegas.

[522] And then you also know throughout my trip to Las Vegas, there's going to, going to be about seven wrecks.

[523] I will be involved.

[524] There will be six or seven major accidents on the Rotamon.

[525] And so I got to try to think about, hmm, where are those going to happen?

[526] What little pack should I be in?

[527] Should I be in the lead the first 150 miles?

[528] Is that useful?

[529] Should I just hang in the middle?

[530] At what point have I hung back too far?

[531] No, I'm left.

[532] And so like their chess and maybe I'm wrong.

[533] Your chess game is like, how do I position myself so that in the last 100 laps of this race, I'm where I'm supposed to be.

[534] Yeah, you know, especially with Speedway Racing.

[535] So, Monica, I encourage you to watch this weekend at Talladega.

[536] Okay.

[537] Just because we are, it's like a traffic jam.

[538] So it's like the heart of Los Angeles there, rush hour, but going 200 miles an hour.

[539] Oh, my God.

[540] I can't.

[541] Like, four lanes.

[542] And when one wrecks, damn near all of us, right?

[543] Because the packages that we have on the cars, like the brake packages, we're going for the top speed, the most minimal drag.

[544] So we have the smallest brake packages on there.

[545] The cars are super trimmed out.

[546] So when you hit the brakes, it ain't going to stop like it would stop at, say, track called Martinsville, where we were at two weeks ago, where we had the biggest break package, and the stopping power is 10 times better.

[547] Yeah.

[548] So when there's a wreck up there, you have to do your best at keeping it under control, missing cars.

[549] Oh, yeah.

[550] It's wild.

[551] Oh, my God.

[552] And then when that happens, you go, okay.

[553] Okay, so there's one, and there's going to be three or four more coming my way.

[554] When's the next one happen?

[555] Yeah.

[556] And you don't know.

[557] You're literally just cruising there the whole time, and you're just, you're like, I'm going to play the safe route here and not be aggressive, and the next thing you know, you're wrecked.

[558] You're done.

[559] Yeah, we interviewed Daniel Ricardo, and he was saying his move is basically like he's got to be a fucking silverback for one minute.

[560] Like, that's what he tells himself.

[561] Like, my real commitment is to be an animal that first.

[562] minute and then I'm going to be in my position and then I got to protect my position.

[563] Hopefully I can move my way up.

[564] But the craziness is that first minute, whereas yours is just like so extended and you don't even know when to turn on the silverback, I wouldn't imagine.

[565] Yeah, yeah.

[566] So we have restarts.

[567] I'm guessing he was talking about the initial start.

[568] Yeah, it has to be silverback.

[569] Ours is definitely that, but we have at least three restarts throughout the race.

[570] That's without cautions.

[571] And so then when you have green flag pitch strategy come through, it's like, okay, now it's time to get back after it and be a silverback again.

[572] To his quote there, it's like we have a lot of times where we have to muscle up and get after it.

[573] Yeah.

[574] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[575] We've all been there.

[576] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[577] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, It's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[578] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[579] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[580] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

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[584] What's up guys?

[585] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[586] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[587] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[588] And I don't mean just friends.

[589] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[590] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[591] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[592] Okay, this is Dicey, especially as you as a representative of NASCAR and me as someone who's sponsored by NASCAR.

[593] Is there ever any talk about shortening those races?

[594] Yes.

[595] Yes.

[596] I feel like they'd be more appealing because my issue sometimes with them is like the 600 can't watch it.

[597] Right.

[598] Because the first 400 or 500 laps doesn't really tell me much about who's going to win the race.

[599] It's just kind of like watching practice and then the race starts with 100 laps left or whatever it is.

[600] Yeah, it's kind of a battle of attrition for that race.

[601] It's like who's going to last the longest?

[602] It's like an off -road race at that point.

[603] Basically, yeah.

[604] It for sure is.

[605] It damn sure feels like it too.

[606] We had two races at Michigan last year, obviously, during the pandemic.

[607] It was a Saturday, Sunday deal.

[608] The distances were perfect.

[609] It was like a two -hour race, our hour and a half race, done.

[610] And I talked to the series director, and I was like, dude, this is ideal.

[611] This feels good.

[612] He's like, yeah, don't count on that TV.

[613] And now it's not going to happen.

[614] I'm like, okay, that's fine.

[615] Whatever.

[616] But I guess that's what makes it distinct is the long distance element of it.

[617] Otherwise, what's the difference between that and Formula One?

[618] It'd be the same thing.

[619] Yeah, but the thing is, is NASCAR.

[620] was for all of my childhood.

[621] And I used to work for General Motors, so we were constantly at tracks.

[622] I won't bore you with the details of that.

[623] But there was a point where NASCAR was the biggest spectator sport in the entire world.

[624] Yeah, which is amazing.

[625] Like the Coca -Cola 400, which I had gone to, I want to say there's like 200 ,000 people can sit in there or something.

[626] Like, you're looking around going this bigger than 90 % of the cities in America.

[627] Yeah, it's super cool.

[628] But it has been in decline for the last, I don't know, however many years.

[629] And so there's all these interesting strategies to kind of read.

[630] revitalize it.

[631] So one is you guys do more road courses now, right, than you used to do?

[632] Yeah, we have seven, I think we have seven on the schedule versus three last year.

[633] Okay, so road course monocons, instead of going in the oval, turning left all day long, they'll be on an oval for some portion.

[634] Then they come down into an infield, there's left, there's right, there's right.

[635] Then it's like Formula one.

[636] It's left, right?

[637] Yeah.

[638] Which do you prefer?

[639] If you've seen my road course career, you would know I do not prefer road course.

[640] I am an oval type guy.

[641] Man, it's so frustrating.

[642] You know, the worst thing about it is.

[643] I love road courses.

[644] It's so fun.

[645] Like it changes up.

[646] It's different.

[647] We have 36 races.

[648] So 29 of those are on ovals, different types of ovals, but same thing at the end of the day.

[649] So it's like, ooh, we get to go turn right.

[650] And then I go like, oh, shit, we got to go turn right.

[651] I don't know how to do that.

[652] And I struggle.

[653] And it's like, ah.

[654] Yeah.

[655] So it's funny.

[656] We're actually going to road course school at the end of the week here.

[657] So yeah, good times.

[658] Although I wonder if you mentally on those road course days, even though you're pissed that you're not performing at the level you'd like to, you have to be so much more distracted by the driving, though, right?

[659] In a good way?

[660] No, you're actually more focused because there's so much more shit going on.

[661] That's what I mean.

[662] I mean, distracted from life.

[663] It requires so much attention that it's a freedom from your thoughts.

[664] Yes, it is.

[665] Until you run as bad as I do.

[666] And then I'm like, hey, you suck.

[667] You suck.

[668] Oh, shit.

[669] Oh, turn right here.

[670] Yes.

[671] So I'm doing a lot of stuff in the car and talking.

[672] to myself.

[673] So if I could just have a good solid weekend, which I'm hoping for, we go to Kota next here in about a month.

[674] Oh, wait.

[675] You guys are, yeah.

[676] Is that your first time there?

[677] First time.

[678] I'm so excited.

[679] Oh, you've been down there, I assume.

[680] Yeah.

[681] I've made 15 laps on a moped.

[682] Oh, for MotoGP weekend.

[683] And they were like, hey, go take the moped out.

[684] I'm like, all right.

[685] Are you a big MotoGP fan?

[686] So I got into it more.

[687] I don't follow it like I do F1.

[688] Yeah.

[689] But, uh, dude, those guys are.

[690] studs.

[691] They're the number one.

[692] They're the number one studs on the planet.

[693] They're the alphas.

[694] Oh, for sure.

[695] We'll give them that title.

[696] It's insane.

[697] My gosh.

[698] I don't know how they do it.

[699] I mean, you ever watched a motor GP race, Monica?

[700] I've probably watched tiny portions when Dax is watching, but no. I think I made you watch Valentino kick Marquez.

[701] I think he made me watch like a horrible incident where one was almost hit another one flying off.

[702] Last season when Valentino, the bike went, behind him and in front of him.

[703] Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[704] I remember that.

[705] That was scary.

[706] But rubbing elbows while you're going...

[707] I can't.

[708] Two hundred miles an hour.

[709] Nope, noop.

[710] I'm good.

[711] I was going to tell you the whole reason I'm into taking the bikes to the track is it's the only time in my entire life that I cannot think of one other thing.

[712] It can't be done.

[713] Like, you just have to just be so fucking focused on what you're doing.

[714] Or you go down immediately.

[715] Like, there's no room for it.

[716] no doubt do you ride yeah yeah i go to the trek all the time on the motorcycle i had a rough year last year in quarantine had a few surgeries as a result of it but oh no but i do i love it so much it's just that's cool yeah what do you have i had an r one that was stolen four months ago and then i have a jixir track bike and then i have some ducati's cool do you ride yeah i'm a sum of low and slow i got i got a couple harleys oh okay yeah which ones do you have i have a street glide CBO both 2020s and then a low rider S so like a basically like a little sportsster which is so fun yeah that's the lookout here in L .A if you're going to ride a Harley you got to ride a sportsster cafe style yeah yeah okay back to what the hell were we talking about um oh just mass car racing okay oh oh okay yeah so they've added a bunch of road courses to make it exciting which it has and then dirt track which is bonkers how is the dirt track Baba Yeah, next question.

[717] That was, you know, I won on the dirt track 2014 in the truck, so I enjoyed it, but, man, it was so tough to see.

[718] I don't know if you've seen any highlights from that, but, like, you couldn't see.

[719] Like, it was so much dust.

[720] So the visibility, you were driving blind.

[721] There were so many wrecks because it was just like putting your hand over your eyes and driving.

[722] Yeah.

[723] And it's like, figure it out.

[724] And so from a technical standpoint, it was.

[725] It was tough.

[726] But from driving, like we were running seventh there with a few laps to go and got our left for a tire cut.

[727] And that ended our day.

[728] But it was fun, but it was like golf.

[729] It was fun straighting.

[730] Very fun and frustrating at same time.

[731] Yeah.

[732] The visibility is, okay, it just sounds like I'm trying to impress you now.

[733] But I also raced off road.

[734] And I had a night race one time.

[735] And my navigator, the visibility was so fucking bad in the car.

[736] I couldn't see anything in front of me. So I turned to the right to like look at my navigator.

[737] I couldn't see him.

[738] He's as close to me as his monicas.

[739] And no one can see the nav on the dash.

[740] So I was like, who's kidding who here?

[741] We're just pinned in the desert.

[742] Something will happen or it won't.

[743] And you're like, yeah, this is not, not being able to see.

[744] It's not fun.

[745] No, it's not.

[746] It's like terrifying.

[747] What's on the other side of this obstacle?

[748] Oh my God.

[749] This is a nightmare.

[750] That's like literally someone's nightmare.

[751] Like not being able to see.

[752] You at least do it like for an occupation and a living.

[753] when I was in that situation, I'm like, why am I in this situation?

[754] Like, what is my ego?

[755] What is my ego desire?

[756] Yeah, that's when you start question.

[757] Is this really something I should be doing?

[758] Yeah, it's not fun at all.

[759] It's just so I can tell people I did it.

[760] That's the only reason I'm doing this.

[761] Yeah, we've been there.

[762] We've been there.

[763] Ego takes over a lot.

[764] So, okay, so in the effort to spice up NASCAR, these things have all happened.

[765] But I do think some shorter races might be an interesting.

[766] Just experiment to see if people with less of an attention span might want to.

[767] Well, our generation now, my generation, our attention spans aren't there.

[768] It's just like, man, we got to keep up with the times here, you know?

[769] Yeah.

[770] We've done some things, you know, bringing in the stage racing, they've broken things up.

[771] So it gives you like a half time basically for us.

[772] Go to concession stands, get whatever you want, come back, and then we fire back up the race.

[773] So that's been good.

[774] Yeah, that's cool.

[775] You've raised three series, the Xfinity series, the Camping World Truck series, and the Cup series.

[776] First of all, I don't know the difference between Xfinity and Cup.

[777] They're both NASCAR, right?

[778] They're both cars, but they're smaller.

[779] Like the body shape is a little bit different.

[780] The technical, like the aerodynamic standpoint, there's a lot less downforce on the Xfinity cars.

[781] Okay.

[782] And there is a cup car.

[783] So some say it's a little bit more challenging to drive an Xfinity car, but then the competition in the cup level supersedes that.

[784] Right.

[785] Dude, it is so tough in the Cup series.

[786] So tough.

[787] So if you had to say you had a favor, I mean, you've been really, really successful.

[788] the truck series.

[789] Do you have a favorite of those three?

[790] What I really want to do is accomplish.

[791] I got six wins in the trucks and I got two zeros in the Xfinity and Cup column.

[792] I need to change that.

[793] And your age wise, you're still pretty young for a NASCAR driver now.

[794] 27.

[795] Yeah, yeah, I'm one of the younger, in the cup level.

[796] Yeah, I'm one of the younger guys.

[797] And who is your all -time hero?

[798] Oh, that's tough.

[799] So I was always, my family was big time Dale Senior fans.

[800] Yeah.

[801] And so I kind of just inherited that.

[802] Again, I wasn't watching.

[803] And and I didn't really know.

[804] And I lived 15 minutes from the Speedway.

[805] Uh -huh.

[806] I'm going to pause you really quick.

[807] So Monica, just remember, Ricardo uses the intimidator's number and has a tattooed.

[808] Yeah, yeah.

[809] So when we lost Dale in 2001, I kind of just naturally went to Dale Jr. Uh -huh.

[810] And so it was a fan of his and watching him.

[811] And so it was really cool to see him perform and compete and win.

[812] But then as I started getting closer to the Cup series, say like the K &N series or the truck level, Obviously, you're at NASCAR races.

[813] You're at NASCAR, or the Cup weekends.

[814] And so your exposure is a lot higher, and you get to know guys.

[815] And it's like, you run into Jimmy Johnson for the first time.

[816] And he's like, hey, man, how's it going?

[817] How's your season going?

[818] You know, good luck.

[819] And it's like, whoa, this guy knows who I am.

[820] Like, that's pretty sick.

[821] Yeah.

[822] And then you get to the Cup level.

[823] I'll never forget when I was filling in the 43 guy driving it broke his back.

[824] So I was called into Sub -in.

[825] And we were at Daytona in July.

[826] And under caution.

[827] I was right next to Jimmy Johnson and I was like, damn, this is cool.

[828] Racing against seven times.

[829] Fuck, yes.

[830] Super cool.

[831] So I've gotten to know Jimmy.

[832] Obviously, race for Kyle Busch in the truck series.

[833] Kevin Harvick has been a big supporter of mine.

[834] Do you know Matt Crafton, now that I'm seeing your TRD?

[835] Yeah, no, Kraftin.

[836] Yeah, absolutely.

[837] We go way back.

[838] We're in the dunes together all the time.

[839] Oh, cool.

[840] That's awesome.

[841] Yeah.

[842] We have the same kind of sandrail at Tatum and he runs the NASCAR motor in his fucking sandrail, which is so cool.

[843] Oh, yeah, he's got it.

[844] Yeah, he's got it all.

[845] You know, he's been doing that for a long time.

[846] He's always asked, hey, you need to come out and join the dunes with us.

[847] So I may have to take him up on that one day.

[848] Oh, it is the most fun you can have.

[849] Okay, so now a couple cool things that, well, let's get into some of the ways that they're evolving, thank God, outside of just adding road courses and whatnot.

[850] The most recent thing that happened was they finally said no Confederate flags at the races anymore.

[851] just a week ago maybe no this was almost a year ago oh i watched the race the other day and it felt like it was brand new okay so it was a year ago so what happened at martinsville and martinsville was two weeks ago and so they could have been talking about oh that makes sense when we were here at martinsville for the first time last year that's when everything happened so that could be that yeah i have to imagine your presence there has something to do with that yeah i mean i i i ultimately called out and ask her to get rid of the flag Yeah.

[852] I feel like you're in a really, of all the sports that you would want to be vocal about BLM, like Lewis Hamilton is very, very vocal about BLM, gets to be very supported.

[853] It's not that big of a swing in Formula One to take that position.

[854] But NASCAR is a southern tradition.

[855] There's never been a per capita flag flying event that had as many Confederate flags as probably previous NASCAR races.

[856] And so you're in a very precarious situation to be vocal.

[857] about your beliefs because I think the base generally is on the other side of that argument or at least traditionally has been when you've thought about being vocal and you've thought about the risk you'll take on, which again is so much more significant than doing it in the NBA, doing it anywhere.

[858] I would argue where you're doing it is probably the hardest place to do it.

[859] Yeah.

[860] What's that risk reward analysis look like in your head?

[861] I don't know if there's much risk.

[862] Yeah, you're going to lose some fans, but so be it.

[863] The reward is revolutionizing the sport.

[864] and changing it for the better.

[865] Like, that's huge.

[866] You know, that's going to be much bigger than any race win that I'll have.

[867] And accepting that is huge.

[868] Yeah, now before last year, before all that stuff went down, I was getting introduced, hey, Bubba Wallace driver of the 43, and getting a decent amount of cheers, and it was cool.

[869] Yeah.

[870] Now I'm right up there with Kyle Bush, sometimes more than Kyle Bush than on the booze.

[871] And I haven't even done anything on track to piss anybody off.

[872] And so it's, I feel like, it's more on a personal level, like personal hatred, that people, it's not like Kyle Busch, his attitude sometimes is people give him crap for that.

[873] Yeah, sure.

[874] All I've said was, hey, let's get rid the Confederate flag and I'll start allowing more people and all of a sudden I'm getting more booze.

[875] So that comes from personal hatred, I feel.

[876] That's just for me speaking.

[877] Yeah.

[878] Now, I imagine you were probably at the race that Michelle Obama came out.

[879] Everyone booed.

[880] Were you at that race?

[881] No, when was that?

[882] Well, it had to be while Obama was president.

[883] I guess that was probably six years ago.

[884] It was towards the end of his last term.

[885] They all booed?

[886] Yeah, yeah.

[887] Oh, my God.

[888] Well, talk about, okay, you're saying, like, let's add dirt tracks and let's do this and let's make it more appealing.

[889] Like, it's not appealing to younger generations if people are booing Michelle Obama.

[890] If people are waving a Confederate flag, nobody wants, like, no one wants associations with that unless you're old and racist.

[891] Yeah.

[892] Yeah.

[893] Well, that sounds like what's that saying?

[894] Preaching to the choir.

[895] Yeah, so it's tough.

[896] Now, I think people that aren't even NASCAR fans became aware of your name when the noose in the garage was found.

[897] It was all over every news outlet.

[898] And then, am I right in that?

[899] It was later discovered that that had been there for a while.

[900] So it probably wasn't put there directly to fuck with you.

[901] But there must have been a pretty significant period of time where you were certain that is what happened.

[902] Yeah, no doubt.

[903] When it's brought to your attention that there's a news found, you're like, wow, there's no one allowed in the garage.

[904] There's no fans allowed.

[905] This was the first race back with fans.

[906] Who the hell?

[907] Was it a track worker?

[908] Was it somebody inside of our sport that did it?

[909] Yeah.

[910] And so, yeah, until Tuesday, and the FBI is like, hey, we found video evidence that, you know, this was there before.

[911] Okay.

[912] Cool.

[913] But up until that time, it was like, who in the hell has done this?

[914] Well, also, I think there's so many ways to look at that.

[915] this.

[916] The example we always give on here is like Rodney King.

[917] It's like at first you go, oh, there's seven really racist officers that are doing this.

[918] And then you learn, oh, no, all 18 of them made the same police report when they got back to the station.

[919] Okay, so that tells us culturally that the culture of that police department is to protect that.

[920] So, oh, the whole system's kind of racist.

[921] So I do think it's telling that that's not out of consideration that that had been done intentionally.

[922] It's not like that would have been a huge stretch.

[923] I guess when it happened, you're like, yeah, I can definitely see.

[924] someone piss that their Confederate flags being taken away.

[925] Yeah, two weeks after the Confederate flag, yeah.

[926] And they called me ahead of time being like, hey, Talladega is going to have fans.

[927] We're going to have heightened security around your team and your car.

[928] It's like, shit, you're already heightened awareness is a couple notches higher going into it.

[929] Yeah.

[930] And then this happens, it's like, what are the chances of this?

[931] Like, perfect storm.

[932] Yeah, they're staggering that that just happened to be in there.

[933] now the cool moment I saw was when everyone walked out how'd that come about Jimmy Johnson led that we did super cool he fired up a group chat we have a driver's group chat and he said hey I don't know about you guys but I'm planning on standing with Bubbo today for the race I got pretty emotional I bet being a part of that and then it was just like it was like a snowball effect a lot of guys were me too yep I'll be there me too and then all of a sudden it was like hey we're going to need a lot more room and so I thought it was just the drivers that's the crazy part.

[934] And then I get out of the car and then stand up on the roof, the video you see, I'll stand up on the roof and then immediately drop back down is I see the whole entire garage is there.

[935] And I had no idea about that.

[936] He said, Jimmy said, man, I had team presidents, team owners, team managers calling me, how can we be evolved?

[937] Wow.

[938] Super cool.

[939] I would imagine it's also not super easy to step into that role.

[940] I'm trying to imagine myself in your shoes and it's like, we have all these different identities.

[941] Here's a component of my identity.

[942] Here's the component of my identity.

[943] a bigger, but your full -time life and your full -time job and probably the bulk of your focus is like, I'm a race car driver and that's what I focus on and I train for it.

[944] And now I'm a representative of something.

[945] And that's like a whole different thing to shoulder.

[946] And I wonder is it easy or do you sometimes get like imposter syndrome?

[947] Like, oh my God, now I'm a civil rights leader.

[948] All because I said, let's get rid of this.

[949] Am I ready for this?

[950] Yeah.

[951] Did I set out to be an activist?

[952] No, I didn't.

[953] But I was asked how I felt that day and what I think should happen and what change we should do.

[954] That's what came about.

[955] And one thing led to another.

[956] And so I'm not going to backtrack because of all the flack that I've gotten from it.

[957] I'm still going to encourage people to just be the best human being that you can be.

[958] And for the ones that don't want to do that, then you need a life -changing experience.

[959] And whatever that may be, it's like, I don't understand what's so hard to just, you can disagree with people all day, it's fine, but you don't have to treat them like a piece of shit.

[960] Yeah.

[961] Because of what they say or what they look like.

[962] That's our job.

[963] Yeah, in our own heads.

[964] Yes, exactly.

[965] Yeah.

[966] I'm fully employed calling me a piece of shit.

[967] I don't need any help.

[968] Well, dude, yeah, the thing you walk away with is like, and this is so corny and cheesy, but it is true.

[969] There isn't a price you can put on integrity.

[970] There's no trophy that competes with integrity.

[971] And to your point, like Kaepernack, he's not the greatest football player that ever played, but he's as relevant is all the greatest in the most profound way and should feel that way.

[972] Should feel the sense of accomplishment.

[973] Yeah, I mean, the toughest thing for me is how everybody became aware of me through those incidents, Confederate flag and the noose.

[974] And it's like, oh, it bugs a shit on me because I've been trying to work my ass off on the racetrack to become a household name you know yeah and now it's just like superseded everything and so now it's up to me with this new opportunity with mj and what we got going on now is to bring the on track success up to here so it's like oh he can back it up too thank you you just illustrate exactly what i was thinking i would feel like is like uh like part of me would be proud i spoke up proud that i've been a part of this change and then another part of me Whatever my racket inside of hating myself would be, that would be good.

[975] But that's not what I want attention for.

[976] Exactly.

[977] Exactly.

[978] And people want to label me as the attention -seeking guy.

[979] And it's like, no, I'm not.

[980] I want to win.

[981] That is my number one priority.

[982] But when it comes to me using my platform and encouraging others and people that watch me, it's like, hey, just do good, do the right thing.

[983] Yeah.

[984] That's just me talking.

[985] That's not me attention -seeking.

[986] That's just what?

[987] No, no, yeah.

[988] You're not a proselytizer.

[989] You're someone that answered honestly to some questions.

[990] There's a huge difference.

[991] That you have a right to speak to.

[992] Yes.

[993] It's not like I'm just jumping on a bandwagon of some crazy story.

[994] Like, I've lived some of the experiences.

[995] I've been through that.

[996] I've been through discrimination.

[997] I've lost a family member of the police violence.

[998] I've lived it.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] Okay, now let's talk about MJ.

[1001] Let's talk about Michael Jordan getting involved.

[1002] He one time was into MotoGP as well.

[1003] He had a super bike.

[1004] Yeah, I remember I rode on the two -seater.

[1005] motor GP bike with Randy Mamola at Laguna Seika and I said, am I going to fit on the back?

[1006] Like, am I going to fit back there?

[1007] I'm 6 .3.

[1008] And he's like, Michael Jordan was fine back there.

[1009] You'll fucking fit.

[1010] Get on the bike.

[1011] And I was like, oh, that's funny.

[1012] Holy shit.

[1013] MJ wrote on the back of this thing.

[1014] That's crazy.

[1015] Wow.

[1016] That's insane.

[1017] Yeah, so he loves motorsports, huh?

[1018] He does.

[1019] He's been a huge motorsports fan.

[1020] And it's really cool to hear his passion behind it and hear like his stories of going to Talladega, going to Richmond, going to Rockingham, going to Darlington, and attending the races.

[1021] And I'm like, that's badass.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] And it's also fun to hear his knowledge of what he sees on the racetrack and stuff.

[1024] Like, two cars get together and I'm like, man, I can't believe one car did this.

[1025] And he was like, no, no, no, it was the other guy's fault.

[1026] And I'm like, what?

[1027] And then I have to explain it to him, and he's like, oh, okay, I get that.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] So, no, it's super cool.

[1031] having him involved and he's competitive, but having Denny as a co -owner there, it definitely manages the expectations and levels everything out.

[1032] So it's not like MJ's here.

[1033] We got to win.

[1034] We got to win five championships.

[1035] We got to match the NBA success.

[1036] It's like, oh, this is a whole different ballgame, pun intended.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] I have a really hard time asking for advice.

[1039] I've had a hard time finding mentors.

[1040] You and I are the same.

[1041] You and I are the same.

[1042] And I've paid the price for it.

[1043] I've paid the price.

[1044] I could have been better at so many things if I would have asked for help, been vulnerable.

[1045] So I wonder, like, with this amazing opportunity, of course, he doesn't know a fucking thing about racing, but he does know something about that mental racket, man. He knows something about harnessing all 100 % of what you have at your disposal.

[1046] Like, is there a way to, like, have him mentor you?

[1047] Is there something he can give you?

[1048] I'm wondering.

[1049] Yeah, no, that's a good question.

[1050] And we're only non -races in.

[1051] Getting through the hardships and the ups and downs, the ebbs and flows of everything, it's like, let's get settled in first, and then we'll have that conversation over a dinner one night or whatever it may be at the golf course when I don't suck anymore.

[1052] Maybe you can drive the golf cart and just go out.

[1053] Oh, yeah.

[1054] I'll be as catty.

[1055] Exactly.

[1056] But having those conversations like, those have yet to come, and I've been the same way.

[1057] I'm a very, who, there's a new challenge in front of me. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to figure.

[1058] it out and you mess up.

[1059] And it's like, all right, let me try something else.

[1060] And you mess up.

[1061] Oh, let me try something else.

[1062] Ah, I figured it out.

[1063] That's how I am.

[1064] I don't go to somebody, hey, how do you conquer this challenge?

[1065] It's basically, I feel like you're cheating.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] Like, no, go do the hard work and figure it out yourself.

[1068] I know, but, you know, I watch people around me who are able to humble themselves enough to ask for advice and it works really well.

[1069] In fact, one of the only times it ever happened to me was I was racing in this Super Trafeo series, this Lamborghini series.

[1070] And one of our tracks was Fontana that had a bank, and I've never been on a bank at full speed.

[1071] And so a dude in the Trefeo series, he is an ex -Nascar driver.

[1072] And I go, I'm on the bank.

[1073] I'm like fifth gear flat.

[1074] And he goes, no, no, no, you can't go six -gear flat.

[1075] There's no way the car would stay in the, get behind me on the next lap.

[1076] We're going six -gear -flat.

[1077] Sure enough, I would have never done that on my own.

[1078] I needed to know that that was humanly possible.

[1079] It did not seem that the laws of physics would have allowed for that.

[1080] And I thought, oh my God, I asked him, wow, I saved myself so much.

[1081] Pat yourself on the back.

[1082] You did something.

[1083] You went against the grain.

[1084] I love it.

[1085] I'm the same way.

[1086] Oh, it's so hard for me. I'm embarrassed by it.

[1087] It's a sense of pride.

[1088] And it shows like everybody is quick to put a label on somebody.

[1089] And we adapt that mentally.

[1090] It's like, who am I going to show signs of weakness here by asking?

[1091] I'm not going to do that.

[1092] Now I'm going to go figure it out.

[1093] Yeah, everything is like weakness.

[1094] Every force in my life is avoiding looking weak in any way.

[1095] Yep, exactly.

[1096] And it's like, damn, I should have just went to ask because now I'm pissed off and I'm telling myself that I sucked.

[1097] I should have just asked them, hey, are you fifth or sixth gear here?

[1098] Ah, okay, got it.

[1099] I mean, part of it is because these specific sports are very hyper masculine.

[1100] Mancho.

[1101] Yeah, so it's probably an extra way to ask or it feels like, oh, it's.

[1102] it's not manly or something, which is so silly and, yeah, it's wasting all of your time.

[1103] Well, even if you, well, you just kind of talked about it.

[1104] Like, they're already doing the most dangerous hypermasculent thing.

[1105] There's fucking, they're getting in an accident every other weekend.

[1106] And then all of their hobbies, like Robbie Gordon.

[1107] Okay, so on my free time, I'm going to race Baja 1000.

[1108] I'm going to do the biggest jump at Glamis.

[1109] Like, I'm going to go prove in all these other departments that I'm the most fearless.

[1110] Never enough.

[1111] Never enough.

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] I relate.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] You're fueled off of adrenaline.

[1116] That's what pushes us.

[1117] That's it.

[1118] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1119] Okay, the last thing I want to ask you about is just because I read this and I felt He laughed.

[1120] I don't even know where he's going, but he laughed about this.

[1121] So here we go.

[1122] There's another area I thought maybe I really related to you, which is I can't do video games.

[1123] Like as a kid, I bailed out at Nintendo.

[1124] I was like kind of good at the first version.

[1125] And then when there was too many buttons, I was out.

[1126] Anyways, during COVID, they encouraged these guys.

[1127] If I'm understanding this correctly, they encourage these guys like, you guys should do this online, this like e -racing or whatever the fuck it's called.

[1128] Yeah, yeah.

[1129] To keep fans kind of dialed in, right?

[1130] So, well, you tell me, I don't know if you were forced or not, but it sounds like you were probably forced.

[1131] So it was optional now, and now it's definitely mandatory.

[1132] I mean, it's a big deal.

[1133] We actually have a race tomorrow night, virtually Talladega.

[1134] But yeah, there's a software out there called iRacing.

[1135] which is the most advanced video game, simulation, whatever you want to call it.

[1136] Like, it's really cool to be able to go out.

[1137] And especially jump on at night with your buddies and go have fun, bragging rights and whatnot.

[1138] There are the simulation people that take it way too serious.

[1139] And, like, when I jump on there and I do something and they're like, what are you doing?

[1140] And I'm like, this is what you do in real life.

[1141] No, no, no, no, you don't do it on the game.

[1142] It's not real life.

[1143] It's like, who are you to tell me what to do in real life?

[1144] Oh, here we go.

[1145] So it's a very fine line.

[1146] And so I don't get on there much, but obviously the mandatory sessions we have to.

[1147] But it did create throughout the pandemic break that we had, it created a lot of buzz around the sport.

[1148] Good and bad, really.

[1149] Yeah, yeah.

[1150] But if I understand it correctly, he was in the middle of the race and said, fuck this.

[1151] I got wrecked twice.

[1152] So you only have two repairs.

[1153] And I got wrecked twice in the first 15 laps.

[1154] And I was like, I'm done.

[1155] And the guy wrecked me on purpose.

[1156] So I'm like, I don't have time for this.

[1157] We spend hours.

[1158] hours throughout the week practicing and trying to get better trying to be competitive and then he wiped out done it's like spent hours on the simulation thing yes yeah oh my listen to this though and then when he bailed he's like I'm fucking out people were like challenging his intent oh my god he's a quit a real fucking race yeah oh you would you would quit a video game well you quit a real race like oh yeah lost the sponsor over it like oh my god I had to bring it up When I read that, I was like, oh, my God, this is exactly what would happen to me if I was forced to do this.

[1159] Dude, it was so ridiculous.

[1160] But then you talked to, like, my girlfriend, she was like, well, I mean, you shouldn't have acted like a little kid.

[1161] I'm like, I'm like, there was, there's no way around it.

[1162] But the whole sponsorship deal, I could give two shits about because I never even used their product anyways.

[1163] But, dude, it was, it was ridiculous.

[1164] I just the idea of, like, a racer losing a sponsor in an elect, in a fucking fake.

[1165] But I don't like that they have to take time out to do this other thing.

[1166] Oh, but they weren't racing.

[1167] Right?

[1168] Was it during, like, when the season?

[1169] No, this was totally nothing going on.

[1170] Oh, right.

[1171] And so it was like, hey, let's go virtually race.

[1172] And it's like, all right.

[1173] Well, then you have people that do it every day.

[1174] And it's like, it's not really realistic.

[1175] And so then you devote a lot of, like, seven, eight hours throughout the week just to race.

[1176] And then you go and get wrecked in 20 minutes.

[1177] Like, hell no, I'm out.

[1178] Oh, my God.

[1179] What's hilarious is, I totally respect the people who are super into online.

[1180] gaming, and I think they are champions, and I'm impressed with what they do.

[1181] Yeah, no doubt.

[1182] It's impressive.

[1183] The notion that someone who doesn't do that should hop in there and do it, and then there's some expectation that somehow you're disrespect.

[1184] The whole thing, to me, it's just the cross -pollination that's hysterical.

[1185] It just really is hysterical.

[1186] You can laugh about it now.

[1187] I was pissed off, like, for a while.

[1188] I'm sure.

[1189] That was my last race.

[1190] I didn't race anymore after that.

[1191] Well, then it became mandatory this year.

[1192] I'm like, oh, here we go.

[1193] But see, that's what, so now they're making you do it, but you're still, now you're real racing and simulation racing, and that doesn't really seem fair.

[1194] And also, what if you learn bad habits?

[1195] Yeah, you could fuck yourself up.

[1196] There is that, but at the same time, we're like, okay, this isn't like real life.

[1197] At least you know all the tracks.

[1198] I guess that's one leg up you have.

[1199] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[1200] Yeah.

[1201] Yeah, they tried to introduce that with MotoGP, like, there's no races and they're like, watch the guys fucking, and I'm like, watch guys play a video game?

[1202] Yeah.

[1203] No. Yeah.

[1204] I'm not, I'm attracted to the sport because someone might fly off the bike at 200.

[1205] That's what's thrilling.

[1206] So morbid.

[1207] I'm just honest.

[1208] Look, you're backing me into being a rights leader now.

[1209] The morbid sector of the country.

[1210] Oh, I love it.

[1211] Well, Darrell Bubba Wallach, it's been really fun to watch your story.

[1212] I actually think whatever thoughts you carry about whether you should or shouldn't have that attention, ultimately great for the sport.

[1213] I think it got the sport a ton of attention.

[1214] And I think it got positive.

[1215] Positive, yeah.

[1216] Yeah, and I think the steps that were taken as a result of your honesty and integrity are going to save that sport.

[1217] So I think you should feel nothing but positive that you have the light on you.

[1218] It's worthwhile.

[1219] I appreciate that.

[1220] It's so funny throughout all the bad and good tweets that you get, obviously the negative stand out more.

[1221] But I know that there's so much more positive.

[1222] And telling myself that, it's like, okay, we're good.

[1223] But still, that negative pisses me off.

[1224] God Almighty, you just want to punch up to the screen.

[1225] That's right.

[1226] I can't do that.

[1227] You know, it would only fuel more hate.

[1228] We got to hug them through the screen, Bubba.

[1229] Yeah, that's right.

[1230] That's right.

[1231] Love over hate every day.

[1232] That's right.

[1233] All right, man. Well, great luck to you the rest of the season.

[1234] Thank you.

[1235] Really cool to get to talk to you.

[1236] And I hope I bump into you.

[1237] I hope you make it to the dunes.

[1238] Yeah, that would be awesome.

[1239] I'll definitely take you up on that.

[1240] We'll be out there on the West Coast.

[1241] We've got Sonoma coming up.

[1242] So we'll be out there.

[1243] I've been on my own crusade out there to end the Confederate flag out there.

[1244] It's probably only second to NASCAR as far.

[1245] Oh, my God.

[1246] There's so many.

[1247] I take Monica, my wife out there, and it's like 100 % of the flags on the Doom Buggies are Trump flags.

[1248] I'm like, everyone just give these people a chance.

[1249] They don't know.

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] Yeah, but it does feel like you have to like personally go around and be like, so you need to take that down and this is why.

[1252] Like when you see it, I'm a real person.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] That's tough.

[1255] We'll figure it out.

[1256] Appreciate you.

[1257] Monica, pleasure meeting you.

[1258] Thanks, brother.

[1259] All right.

[1260] Take care.

[1261] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate.

[1262] Monica Badman Good morning.

[1263] Good morning.

[1264] Ooh, someone's getting on their Harley outside.

[1265] Do you hear that?

[1266] Yeah, that was a big rumble.

[1267] Yeah, they really had it pegged around 6 ,000, 7 ,000 RPMs.

[1268] I'm trying to think if there's anything that's outstanding that we need to be covering.

[1269] Hold on, though.

[1270] Okay.

[1271] How appropriate that a NASCAR driver.

[1272] Oh.

[1273] And then that motor just ripped by.

[1274] I didn't even think about that.

[1275] That's a ding, ding.

[1276] Yeah, it's a rev, rev, rev. Okay, things to, okay, well, one thing we could update people on is that despite my great fear, people would think I was disgusting, many people wrote in to say that they, too, don't shower very often.

[1277] And that when they do shower, they also don't use soap on their legs or their body, which made me feel less alone and terrible.

[1278] Yeah, and some dermatologist weighed in.

[1279] Yeah, it said it's really not ideal to be stripping your skin of all of its natural oils.

[1280] And I accidentally didn't shower for a couple days.

[1281] And you told me that.

[1282] And what was the first thing I said?

[1283] How's your legs?

[1284] They said, are your legs dry?

[1285] And they were, they were not.

[1286] They were not.

[1287] They were moisturized.

[1288] But I did, I had used moisturizer also.

[1289] You had blamed it on something else.

[1290] Loci.

[1291] Loation.

[1292] Okay, loggie.

[1293] Yeah, nice lotion.

[1294] Just a normal loge.

[1295] Any show movie updates you want to?

[1296] Well, we watched Mayor of East Town.

[1297] But we can't really, I don't want to say.

[1298] We can't spoil.

[1299] It's too spoilery.

[1300] I really should talk about friends, but I haven't watched it.

[1301] Oh, my God, you still haven't watched it.

[1302] I started it.

[1303] Oh, you did start it?

[1304] Well, then what happened?

[1305] But then it was time to go to the Hansons and...

[1306] You needed more of an event?

[1307] Yeah, I needed to stop.

[1308] Yeah.

[1309] How far did you get?

[1310] Like 15 minutes.

[1311] Oh, that's pretty far.

[1312] Is it 22 minutes?

[1313] Like a normal episode?

[1314] No, it's like two hours.

[1315] It's just a special.

[1316] It's two hours?

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] So it's a friend's movie.

[1319] It's not an episode.

[1320] Oh, it's not?

[1321] No, no, no. It's like just a bad.

[1322] their time.

[1323] Oh, it's an interview?

[1324] Kind of.

[1325] Then they do other stuff.

[1326] It's a reunion show.

[1327] Well, a reunion show generally is they do an episode.

[1328] Oh, yeah, they're not going to.

[1329] They're not even going to do an episode.

[1330] No. I guess it'd be kind of crazy as they've gotten older to see them, like, come into a one -bedroom apartment, act like they're kids.

[1331] Swimmer was the most.

[1332] Oh, he's like leading the charge now.

[1333] He's the go -to comedian.

[1334] He was kind of attractive.

[1335] Yeah.

[1336] It'd be a real fan of a show you should want to sleep with everyone on the show.

[1337] or female.

[1338] Well, I...

[1339] Old or young.

[1340] I did at the time.

[1341] But not swimmer.

[1342] I mean, I would have.

[1343] Sure, because he was famous.

[1344] Well, no, he wasn't famous.

[1345] Ross wasn't famous.

[1346] Oh, you're saying usually with the character.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] Yeah, maybe with, you know, my big preoccupation with Neff Campbell when I was a kid.

[1349] And it was her character from that party of five show that I wanted to be romantically involved with.

[1350] Okay.

[1351] Name top three characters of all time.

[1352] have been most in love with?

[1353] Yeah.

[1354] Definitely her.

[1355] Nev Campbell from Party of Five.

[1356] Painful when I watched it.

[1357] Like, my stomach hurt.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] That I knew we would never be together and I hated it.

[1360] Yeah.

[1361] I'm going to leave it at that one.

[1362] I said top three.

[1363] I know.

[1364] Why?

[1365] I think that's it, though.

[1366] No?

[1367] What about...

[1368] Oh, okay.

[1369] Here's one.

[1370] Patty Arquette in True Romance.

[1371] Okay.

[1372] And then number three, definitely Sally Field and Hooper.

[1373] What about?

[1374] Lisa Bonnet.

[1375] Oh, fuck.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] I got to tell you, she's definitely, I think, the prettiest human being I've ever seen on screen.

[1378] Uh -huh.

[1379] But it gave me probably more fear than like I could.

[1380] I didn't think like, oh, if I ran into her, she would go for me and I could.

[1381] But remember the question.

[1382] It's character.

[1383] I know, but you know, I've told you this about my, my fantasies have to be plausible for me to believe in them.

[1384] This is a key of my fantasies.

[1385] Right.

[1386] So the character Neff Campbell played on Party of Five, I felt like would have liked me and connected to me. But Lisa Bonnet was bare naked.

[1387] She was into voodoo and she cut a chicken's head off.

[1388] And I was just like, if I rolled into town, no way is she in, you know, that character epiphany.

[1389] That makes sense.

[1390] From Angel Heart.

[1391] That makes sense.

[1392] Yeah.

[1393] That is what I'm asking characters.

[1394] So she wouldn't be in there.

[1395] That's right.

[1396] Okay.

[1397] That's right.

[1398] But Sally Field and Hooper, yeah.

[1399] Okay.

[1400] Because I'm so much like Bert Reynolds, as you know, I like to show off.

[1401] Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[1402] I just zoned.

[1403] Yeah, you did.

[1404] Because I was thinking.

[1405] About yours?

[1406] Yeah.

[1407] What are yours?

[1408] Matt and Ben.

[1409] Character.

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] Will hunting.

[1413] Yeah, Will.

[1414] Yeah, Will.

[1415] Bill hunting.

[1416] No, will.

[1417] Okay.

[1418] I guess.

[1419] You're like clutching at straws.

[1420] I guess.

[1421] Dr. Derek Shepard from Gray's Anatomy.

[1422] Wow, who played him?

[1423] Patrick Dempsey.

[1424] P. Demp's.

[1425] Yeah.

[1426] Yeah, McSteemy.

[1427] No, McDreamy.

[1428] McDreamy.

[1429] You loved him.

[1430] God.

[1431] Yeah, fuck.

[1432] I mean, it was a smart brain surgeon.

[1433] Smarty Pam.

[1434] Then Crosby Braverman.

[1435] Okay, so now we're going to move on to...

[1436] I did love Crosby.

[1437] I did.

[1438] You're probably like, oh, that'd be a good friend to have.

[1439] And then it was a sim.

[1440] Mm -hmm.

[1441] Mm -hmm.

[1442] Because now we are friends.

[1443] What did you just look at?

[1444] You're looking to your walls for him?

[1445] inspiration if the third would be.

[1446] Oh, my God.

[1447] I know it's like harder than you would think, right?

[1448] Like, I know tonight I'm going to go, no, definitely second to Nev. Like, Nev, I know for sure.

[1449] That one, I was like terrible pain every time I watched it.

[1450] Almost hated it.

[1451] Yeah.

[1452] I mean, I'm going to have to get back to you on the third.

[1453] Oh, here's another interesting one that would make my top 10.

[1454] Uh -huh.

[1455] Scarlett Johansson in her as the computer voice.

[1456] That's an interesting one.

[1457] But I felt love sick at the end of that movie.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] It's weird that I. I can't think of, because I have so many.

[1460] Yeah.

[1461] So many boyfriends.

[1462] One of mine is probably a Brad Pitt, but I'm trying to think which one.

[1463] Oceans 11.

[1464] Yeah, because that character's charming.

[1465] You love Oceans 11.

[1466] I do.

[1467] Okay, mine's TBD.

[1468] I got to get back to you on that.

[1469] All right, okay.

[1470] So I started a hard game.

[1471] We know number one.

[1472] You know Will Hunting and I know Neff Campbell.

[1473] Yeah.

[1474] Well, I mean, also originally for me, but it's not anymore.

[1475] It was Angel from Buffy.

[1476] I don't know.

[1477] David Boreanez.

[1478] Oh, wow.

[1479] Yes, I loved Angel.

[1480] Oh, man. Oh, my God.

[1481] Oh, wow.

[1482] I don't know what kind of archetype he is.

[1483] He's brooding.

[1484] He's a vampire.

[1485] And he turns bad because they have sex.

[1486] Oh, it's always metaphors.

[1487] It's always metaphors.

[1488] No, it's, I don't want to.

[1489] Well, Twilight was a total Christian metaphor.

[1490] Oh.

[1491] Anywho.

[1492] Okay, well, we covered that.

[1493] Bubba Wallace.

[1494] Okay, Bubba.

[1495] So the machine.

[1496] Michelle Obama thing.

[1497] I had not heard of that.

[1498] So I just pulled it up to see.

[1499] It's so awful.

[1500] Okay, Michelle Obama and Jill Biden booted at NASCAR race.

[1501] This was in 2011.

[1502] First and second ladies appeared at the Sprint Cup, the final race of NASCAR season to promote their joining forces program which supports U .S. military troops and their family.

[1503] Boo!

[1504] Don't support the military in their family.

[1505] Boo!

[1506] Obama and Biden were co -grand marshals of the race, along with Sergeant Andrew Barry and Iraq.

[1507] veteran and his family.

[1508] The crowd cheered Barry, but those cheers were overtaken by booze when Obama's name was announced.

[1509] Biden and Obama seemed unfazed and joined Barry's family and kicking off the race, shouting gentlemen, start your engines.

[1510] This sucks.

[1511] Mm -hmm.

[1512] Oh.

[1513] There's like over 100 ,000 fans at those things, too.

[1514] So it's not like a few booze.

[1515] It's a cascade of booing.

[1516] Booing is so stupid.

[1517] I don't think I've ever booed.

[1518] I've never booed.

[1519] No. It says a lot about about you if you boo.

[1520] I mean, now I'm saying that.

[1521] I'm like, have I?

[1522] Yeah, probably have.

[1523] We probably both have.

[1524] Like, because the crowd was doing it, maybe I did.

[1525] But it wouldn't have been for a person.

[1526] Maybe a team.

[1527] One team ran out.

[1528] Right, that's what I'm thinking.

[1529] I still don't like that I did that if I did.

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] It's very silly.

[1532] Yeah.

[1533] Very rude.

[1534] God.

[1535] It's very brood.

[1536] Okay.

[1537] Do you want to tell me about Shifter car versus push and go?

[1538] Yeah.

[1539] So, and I could be wrong about this, but my understanding is that probably 15 years ago, almost all cart racing was a shifter cart.

[1540] So it had a six -speed gearbox from a motorcycle in it, as well as a dirt bike engine, a two -stroke 125 engine.

[1541] So you'd shift the gears, like in a manual car.

[1542] Uh -huh.

[1543] And the current popular carding series are push and go.

[1544] So you just start them and then they're automatics basically.

[1545] Oh, got it.

[1546] They have a, I believe, a centrifugal clutch in there.

[1547] Got it.

[1548] So basically, like, the difference between a...

[1549] A manual and automatic shift and a, yeah.

[1550] But a shifter cart goes, like, 50 miles an hour faster.

[1551] Oh, wow.

[1552] There's so much more fun.

[1553] That's what I have.

[1554] Yeah.

[1555] Because you have six gears.

[1556] Confederate flag.

[1557] What was a staple in NASCAR?

[1558] I'm really.

[1559] impressed that he was able to, I mean, I mean, and he takes it sort of just like, yeah, I just did what I believed.

[1560] I just answered questions and whatever.

[1561] But that's hard to do.

[1562] Yeah.

[1563] When a whole sport revolves around Southern Pride.

[1564] Yeah.

[1565] And there's a symbol of Southern Pride, which is that flag.

[1566] So I think that's really impressive.

[1567] Mm -hmm.

[1568] That's the one thing about the Dunes I just don't like.

[1569] There's so many Confederate flags there.

[1570] Not so many.

[1571] There's a ton of Trump flags.

[1572] Right.

[1573] That is true.

[1574] Yeah.

[1575] The Confederate flags has been in a nosedive since I've been going there.

[1576] I've been going for probably 14 years now.

[1577] And yeah, they've gotten less and less and less.

[1578] But yes, there are some.

[1579] It's, you know, it lines up a little bit into a class structure, which is weird.

[1580] Like you don't see sand cars with it generally.

[1581] Interesting.

[1582] Yeah.

[1583] Which are the nicer ones for people.

[1584] Yeah, yeah, more expensive vehicles.

[1585] Have you ever talked to anyone at the Dune?

[1586] about, have you gotten in any, like, weird political conversations with people there?

[1587] I'm so outnumbered there that I just always go, well, you know, I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

[1588] So anytime I enter a conversation, I always just, I make fun of myself first.

[1589] Yeah.

[1590] And then I say my opinion.

[1591] I'm never mute on anything.

[1592] Yeah, yeah.

[1593] And it always goes well.

[1594] Yeah.

[1595] Like, most of my friends out there are a Republican, and they know I'm a big liberal and they just don't bring stuff up that they know I won't like.

[1596] Yeah.

[1597] And I don't either.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] I don't talk about socialized medicine.

[1600] in while I'm there.

[1601] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1602] And I'm not quiet.

[1603] Like, if you ask me when I think about gay marriage, 14 years ago, I told those people.

[1604] Yeah.

[1605] And I've had BLM kind of debates out there with people.

[1606] I'll certainly get into it, but I'm not there to change everyone.

[1607] Right.

[1608] You know, I acknowledge it's way easier for me to have this perspective because I'm white.

[1609] I'm not naive to this.

[1610] But I do recognize that there's a big spectrum of people who like that flag on unfortunately.

[1611] And some people just are truly undereducated.

[1612] All they know is it represents the South to them.

[1613] They grew up with it.

[1614] It was at their grandparents' house flying.

[1615] Their dad had it on his truck.

[1616] And it just represents the pride of being a Southerner.

[1617] But it doesn't.

[1618] But it doesn't.

[1619] Many people don't, they don't recognize the gravity of it.

[1620] I know you want to give a lot of people that benefit of the doubt.

[1621] And I just don't think that's true anymore.

[1622] Maybe for at some time.

[1623] But now you're making a stand.

[1624] There's been too many conversations about it.

[1625] I agree.

[1626] I take back.

[1627] Yeah, I'm speaking more of like 15 years ago when I used to write motorcycles with dudes.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] Who just were into all things southern.

[1630] They were into all southern rock.

[1631] They were into Leonard Skinnerd.

[1632] Yeah.

[1633] And it was one symbol they could incorporate.

[1634] And I did know people that had no fucking clue what they were.

[1635] Right.

[1636] But you're right.

[1637] At this point.

[1638] Yeah.

[1639] All right.

[1640] I'll take mine down.

[1641] Oh, goodness.

[1642] Bye.

[1643] Love you.

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