9 - Color Me Nine

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] We should look up synonyms for murder.

[17] Okay.

[18] For this podcast.

[19] Okay.

[20] Oh, for the titles of the podcast?

[21] No, no, just in general.

[22] So we don't say that word as much.

[23] Oh, right.

[24] Being taken out violently.

[25] Assassinations.

[26] Assassinations.

[27] What are we going to name this episode, do you think?

[28] It's number nine.

[29] Yeah.

[30] Nine.

[31] Non -lives.

[32] That's pretty much how this goes.

[33] Spitballing.

[34] It doesn't get better after that.

[35] Never.

[36] Welcome, everybody, to my favorite murder.

[37] Hi.

[38] That's Georgia Hart Stark.

[39] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[40] I said it like I wasn't sure.

[41] I know.

[42] That's George.

[43] Georgia, right?

[44] Georgia Hartshurst.

[45] The worst is when someone misspels your name in a professional setting when they should absolutely spell your name correctly.

[46] Right, Karen Kilgariff with a complicated last name?

[47] Yes.

[48] That's happening to me many times.

[49] Also, the worst is when people say your last name, who you've known for years and you've known realize that they always thought it was Kilgaris or Kilgaraff or Kilgarath.

[50] When you're like, well, I wish you knew me more.

[51] I know.

[52] Hard stock.

[53] What the fuck?

[54] Hard and stark are two very simple words.

[55] And yet somehow next to each other, people freak the fuck out.

[56] People freak out.

[57] Although I do do that thing where when I see somebody that I know for sure, like if I ran into Dustin in a bar, I would, in my mind, I'd go, hi, Dustin.

[58] And when I would go to say it.

[59] What if I'm wrong?

[60] Yes.

[61] Oh my God, I do that too, except when I see someone that I for sure know, like Dustin, I'll scream their name in front of them because I'm so excited that I know them.

[62] You know what I mean?

[63] Like, you want the credit?

[64] Yeah, because normally I'm like, I know who you are.

[65] Yeah.

[66] But I don't think I do.

[67] And I'm the kind of person that if I mess it up and the person's like, don't worry about it.

[68] I won't stop talking about it.

[69] Right.

[70] Or worrying about it.

[71] Right.

[72] Or letting you go.

[73] People call me Allie sometimes and I'm like, it's okay.

[74] It's okay.

[75] It's okay.

[76] But it's not.

[77] Well, I mean, you should at least get one letter, right?

[78] Totally.

[79] Totally.

[80] Is all I ask.

[81] I love that you have that word killing your name, too.

[82] Oh, me too.

[83] I find it intimidates people.

[84] Yeah.

[85] We both have kind of like hardcore badass last name.

[86] You have a, like yours is reminiscent of Charles Starkweather, the famous spree killer.

[87] Sure.

[88] That we're not talking about on this episode, but that we.

[89] Okay.

[90] We know what I don't talk about up top before we start our favorite murders.

[91] Before we start this bullshit?

[92] Yeah.

[93] is someone knows something, the podcast.

[94] Yes.

[95] Are you, I texted you the other day because I knew you were driving.

[96] I was, no, I was in New York.

[97] I was flying.

[98] Oh, nice.

[99] Yeah.

[100] And I was like, so you got to listen to this.

[101] Yeah.

[102] And I did.

[103] All of them?

[104] Well, there were only three.

[105] Right.

[106] There's a new one.

[107] Oh, is there really good?

[108] I'll listen to that out on my drive home.

[109] So this is, I didn't realize that when I started listening, but it's like, it's, the entire season of this podcast is about one topic.

[110] Yeah.

[111] Should I read the description?

[112] Sure, because it's good.

[113] It's fucking great.

[114] On June 12th, 1972, five -year -old Adrian McNaughton wandered away from his family at a lake in eastern Ontario and disappeared without a trace.

[115] In season one, if someone knows something, host David Riggin, who grew up in the area, goes back and search for answers.

[116] And I had heard of this case and I'd never cared because I was like, I got eaten by bears clearly.

[117] But no. The more he goes into it, like, that's what I like about it, is you make up a thing.

[118] You hear facts from him and then you go, well, it's that guy or it's this thing.

[119] And then he keeps laying down hard facts that he goes.

[120] out and looks at himself.

[121] Yeah.

[122] So there's recordings of him walking in the woods, testing the echo, talking to people who have never talked to anybody about it.

[123] Right.

[124] It was one guy who was there when he wandered away and the police had never spoken to him about it.

[125] I've never spoken to it.

[126] It's a pretty great show.

[127] I hope it stays that way.

[128] So good.

[129] And I find sometimes I get a little bit impatient, and this is sexist of me, but when the boys get a little wistful and poetic about their own thoughts and feelings about things where I'm just like, uh -huh.

[130] That's the opposite of sexist and I love it.

[131] Because there's always sexist against women fucking getting, being poetic about shit.

[132] Well, true, true.

[133] But I mean, like, I just have that thing where, yeah, I just don't want anyone to be precious, really.

[134] But then I find it slightly more sickening if it's a man. Yeah.

[135] Because I've bought into our cultural stereotypes and norms.

[136] Right.

[137] But when this guy does it, I buy it.

[138] I feel like he's being sincere.

[139] I don't think it's self -sself.

[140] no conscious or self -serving he seems so sincere that it's great and and it's clear that he's written out everything he's saying it's it's more of a story he's telling and the writing is good and he tells the story and not a boring way like some of the other true crime podcast too right the music is a little dramatic at times and the soundtracks the sound is a little dramatic but he's Canadian so they have a sincerity oh totally that they don't fear that here in America is almost not allowed right and I like to I like to I like to indulge in that with a Canadian man every once in a while.

[141] I love this podcast.

[142] It's our new, The Simpsons, what we talk about at the beginning of every episode, which of course it means the people versus OJ Simpsons.

[143] Yeah.

[144] Not OJ.

[145] Simpsons?

[146] As many OJ.

[147] Simpsons as it takes to discuss it.

[148] Although the last episode I have to say, the one about the jury was not so I feel like.

[149] I loved it.

[150] You did?

[151] You didn't like it?

[152] I mean, I loved knowing I didn't know any of that stuff.

[153] I didn't neither.

[154] What a fucking bummer to be stuck in a hotel and you can't speak to anyone for months.

[155] Eight months.

[156] And then they didn't treat them well.

[157] No. No, it was, well, it was, it was good in that it was kind of riveting, but it was riveting in it almost like in a telenovela way.

[158] It's ridiculously dramatic.

[159] It kind of took us off the track that we were already on with all the episodes.

[160] It felt like we were moving forward and this one didn't really feel like it was moving forward.

[161] No, but the other thing I like, it felt very different.

[162] Yeah.

[163] But I also loved Marsha Clark and her new hair.

[164] She looks hot, right?

[165] She looks great.

[166] She looks great.

[167] that hair.

[168] And also she was so badass in this one.

[169] There was no she didn't do any like rim tears on the rim her eyes or putting her head in her hands.

[170] She told she told Johnny Crocker to go to the playground or something or what was it?

[171] Daycare.

[172] Go to daycare because this is the smokers lounge.

[173] Yeah and I was like okay.

[174] If that really happened which it probably didn't I'm so happy about.

[175] I feel like it could have.

[176] I mean by that point she's so pissed.

[177] So many things like DNA evidence got completely more.

[178] I mean, I feel like today that wouldn't happen.

[179] No. No one knew what it was.

[180] Yeah.

[181] What I'm loving more than anything is David Schwimmer's character, like, realizing his friend is a fucking murderer and him apologizing to his wife.

[182] Yes.

[183] That his friend was murdered.

[184] Yeah.

[185] He's defending a man who murdered her best friend.

[186] Yeah.

[187] What a bummer.

[188] What a terrible.

[189] No, I mean, yeah.

[190] I wonder if he had quit the trial, would.

[191] Would he not died of cancer?

[192] When he nodded out of cancer and would have OJ gotten off?

[193] Probably not.

[194] Oh, oh, you mean during it.

[195] Sorry.

[196] Yeah, I see what you mean.

[197] Yeah.

[198] Yeah.

[199] I mean, no, that would have been bad news.

[200] Exactly.

[201] So maybe that should have been his like non -statement statement statement that he's like, I can't support this anymore.

[202] Yeah, except for that then you're basically choosing how a person's life is going to go.

[203] Yeah.

[204] But defending him, you're doing the same thing.

[205] Or you're trying to at least.

[206] It's so heavy.

[207] There's a lot of decisions in life that one has to make.

[208] And it's not until they make a dramatic reenactment TV show 20 years later about it that you realize the decisions you should have made.

[209] Yeah, I mean, please live your life like you're going to be reenacted in 30 years.

[210] And do you want someone as high quality as Sarah Paulson to portray you?

[211] Yeah, then you need to live your life like Sarah Paulson could be your, you.

[212] A quiet nobility.

[213] Right.

[214] A single tier.

[215] Or do you want John fucking Travolta being the most flamboyant, incredible character since behind the candelabra and maybe even better.

[216] I love it though, but I don't mind it.

[217] Oh, I love it.

[218] It doesn't bring me out of it.

[219] I never think of John Travolta.

[220] I believe him.

[221] I do too.

[222] I don't know what Robert Shapiro's like that.

[223] I have to assume he's somewhat like that in personal situations, and I love it.

[224] I'd like to sing a tune of praise for the very unsum.

[225] Nathan Lane is F. Lee Bailey.

[226] Nathan Lane is F. Lee's great.

[227] And yeah, Nathan, Nathan Lane.

[228] Who knew he'd be in this?

[229] I got so excited.

[230] Yeah, he's almost unrecognizable, not only because of his wig, but because he, I just believe it's that guy.

[231] I do too.

[232] And Flee Bailey is such a noble character that it had to be played by someone excellent.

[233] And Nathan Lane is a beloved actor, perfect for that role.

[234] Right.

[235] Oh, guys.

[236] We did it.

[237] If you're not watching it, we've ruined it.

[238] If you're not watching it, You've ruined yourself.

[239] You've ruined it for yourself.

[240] There's nothing more we can ruin in your life.

[241] How's it going?

[242] Everything else all right?

[243] Oh, yeah, everything's good.

[244] Not murdered yet.

[245] I'm fucking...

[246] The Facebook group is like near and dear to my heart at this point.

[247] The Facebook book group is making me regret leaving Facebook.

[248] If you want to sign up a fake account, fake name, I will not out you.

[249] But it is such a...

[250] It is such a pleasing place to go when I haven't saw.

[251] Omnia and just talk to, like, everyone is so fucking cool.

[252] I, I comment and I, and I post things and I read everyone's post.

[253] And it's just like really fun.

[254] And the discussions we get into and the comments people make, everyone's nice.

[255] There hasn't been anything racist or mean yet.

[256] I haven't had to kick one person out, which is like shocking for Facebook.

[257] I thought we were really big in the racist community.

[258] Damn it.

[259] Well, we are.

[260] They just keep it quiet.

[261] Oh, yeah, they behave appropriately.

[262] Yeah.

[263] And there's 50, this is our ninth episode.

[264] and there's already 1 ,500 people in the Facebook group.

[265] Fuck, yeah, you guys.

[266] Thank you.

[267] It turns out everyone needed a place to talk about murder.

[268] Well, it is fascinating.

[269] Yeah.

[270] It truly is.

[271] We actually, somebody at work today started talking about H .H. Holmes.

[272] Yeah.

[273] Literally in my head, I had to say, like, a teacher, don't say anything, Karen, let her tell her story.

[274] Don't be a no at all.

[275] Don't, I, like, had to press my lips together because all I want to do is like, get out of it.

[276] Yeah.

[277] And, like, jump all over.

[278] Don't you want to be like, murder is mine.

[279] Like, I'm the, no. one who talks, you don't get to talk about murder.

[280] I talk about murder.

[281] I think though that's that's kind of a good lesson just in general, because I think I've been that way about more than murder all of my life.

[282] It's such a hard thing not to be like, but it's like if someone brings it up themselves, let them tell the story.

[283] Let them have it.

[284] You, murder doesn't belong to you or whatever it is doesn't belong.

[285] I'm not telling you.

[286] I'm telling myself because this is, I totally agree.

[287] Oh, that wasn't to me. No, that was to me in any conversation.

[288] Oh, mm -hmm.

[289] Not, oh yeah.

[290] Did you You know that?

[291] Yes.

[292] It's so hard.

[293] And then when you're like, oh, well, and you bring up something that compares to it, you just sound like an asshole unless you're, you're sincerely wanting to bring up another murder.

[294] You're instead of saying like, well, this is how much I know about it, which I do all the time.

[295] Yes.

[296] This podcast could also go into the areas of etiquette, general etiquette.

[297] Well, I do it in this podcast too of not wanting to speak over you like I just did.

[298] But it's fine with me. Okay.

[299] Well, I don't want it.

[300] Okay.

[301] Well, not wanting to speak over.

[302] you, also not wanting to be like, yeah, no, I know that murder you're about to talk about.

[303] But it delights me when you do that.

[304] I think it's hilarious.

[305] There was one you had that I kept trying to add to and kept telling myself to shut the fuck up in my head because it was so obnoxious.

[306] But it's hard, for me, it's hard when you read a thing by yourself and you're like, there was a man in Chicago during the World's Fair that built a basically built a murder hotel and I'm just finding out now.

[307] And I read it with what I imagine other people read, like, like books when they go to college.

[308] I read it with the same enthusiasm and kind of like absorption.

[309] So then when somebody else starts talking about it, I want them to know that I know, like I want them to know.

[310] To know that you're cool.

[311] I guess.

[312] Yeah.

[313] And our, yeah, like that I want to like scream and grab each other's shoulders.

[314] I want that feeling with people I don't know that.

[315] I don't do too and I want them to know that I'm on the level with them and we can have this conversation instead of like.

[316] And also like you're going to keep telling me about it.

[317] and then you're going to find out that I have a true crime podcast and you're like, why didn't you say anything that you knew about this?

[318] Especially really, the book, The Devil and the White City.

[319] Yes, that's what we were talking about.

[320] Did you read that?

[321] I just did it.

[322] No, yeah, that's it.

[323] That's what we, I had to wait till she was done and then kind of like take a beat.

[324] I was really using it as like a exercise.

[325] Yeah.

[326] And then someone goes, I think they're making a movie.

[327] I think there was a book.

[328] And then I was like, don't say it the second the words out of them out of them.

[329] And then I was like, that's right.

[330] It's called devil and noise.

[331] Yeah, but then if I were the girl who.

[332] brought it up, I'd be like, wait, so this whole time you've been letting me mansplain something to you and you knew about it.

[333] But also sometimes mansplaining is just talking.

[334] Sometimes we, sometimes people get to talk to us knowing something and we can accept that.

[335] Yeah.

[336] And we don't have to know.

[337] We don't have to tell them, but I know.

[338] Yes.

[339] I know everything.

[340] Yeah, we can be not in the position of victim or somebody that's being oppressed.

[341] You can assume that person doesn't have the power to oppress you and you're just being polite.

[342] And letting them be a know -it -all is an okay thing to do.

[343] But then they're never going to get to know you.

[344] Because you didn't tell them that you know shit.

[345] That's very true.

[346] But I'm also, this is a work situation where I can't, I have to let my personality out bit by bit because it's a lot.

[347] You can't scream in someone's face.

[348] Yes.

[349] I love murder.

[350] As my mom used to say, you're too much and she meant it very literally.

[351] Well, we're a lot.

[352] And that's why we have a true crime podcast.

[353] A murder podcast.

[354] We could, yeah, this podcast could literally go for four hours.

[355] Yeah, that's why we're friends is because the first time we actually hung out on around, we had a five -hour lunch.

[356] Yeah, we did.

[357] Just talking.

[358] And the whole time I kept thinking, am I the only one that wants to stay?

[359] Right.

[360] But we, it was clear that we were both voluntarily eating lunch for five hours.

[361] Yeah, and the conversation flowed.

[362] It wasn't one -sided.

[363] That's right.

[364] I think.

[365] I think.

[366] Do you, speaking of one -sided.

[367] We still have our doubts.

[368] We are good.

[369] We are great.

[370] anxiety is real.

[371] Speaking of one -sided and talking about the thing, do you want to do your favorite murderer?

[372] I think you're first.

[373] Do you want me to go first?

[374] Yeah, so you told me this week's theme in a way that I already knew that you knew what you were doing.

[375] Yes.

[376] I read, what they call reverse engineered this week's theme because I had to do this story because one of our, now I'm afraid, I guess I'll say his first name and last initial because one of our listeners, DMed us, which I adore.

[377] He DMed us, like, so as not too embarrassed, I think.

[378] But he was like, how could you have talked about the exorcist and not talked about this?

[379] And sent me a link and all this stuff.

[380] And I wrote back in all caps, holy shit, how did I miss this?

[381] So that's where mine started.

[382] So then when I talked to Georgia, I was like, can this week's be like hiding in plain sight or murders that, like, they were right there the whole time?

[383] Okay.

[384] Kind of thing.

[385] because in The Exorcist, one of the biggest stories.

[386] And I swear, I looked at over five websites about my Exorcist -Cursed movie set, which was my thing last week, if you didn't hear it.

[387] But Brian B, our listener, sent us to St .m. Because there was a guy in The Exorcist, and he was the guy that played the radiologist.

[388] Something's wrong with my mouth.

[389] Words.

[390] Radiologist assistant In the scene we talked about that I said was so creepy where she was in that crazy machine getting like the MRI the guy that plays the assistant in that scene turned out to be a serial killer No. Yes.

[391] Like a serial killer, serial killer.

[392] A legit six victim straight up New York in the 70s serial killer.

[393] That just reminded me of something when I gasped is that there is a thread on the Facebook group that every time I say, holy shit, you have to take a shot or when I say no or when I get like there's certain things and then when you say when you sing a word like a thing like yes it is you take a shot it's pretty hilarious it's very lighthearted it's not in a mean way at all no no no please um but now I don't want to be self -conscious about it and doing all the time is I love when people are so drunk they fall off their own couch um all right So I, when Ryan B sent us this, this very tasteful DM about a huge thing I missed, and I'm so bummed.

[394] Please don't beat yourself up.

[395] I won't, I won't entirely, but talk about like wanting to be an expert and dropping the ball.

[396] Well, I'm like the first five websites that came up that didn't mention this.

[397] They didn't.

[398] So nobody knew.

[399] But yeah, maybe it is like specialized knowledge or something.

[400] Maybe I just have to go to better websites first.

[401] Or you have to, like, I've been Googling weird shit, like, the weird.

[402] The weird stuff.

[403] Not just like, so -and -so, murder.

[404] I've been Googling, like, deep down weird shit.

[405] Have you gone dark web?

[406] I wish I could, I don't know how to go dark web.

[407] But I really, I don't want to.

[408] I'm sure Dustin knows.

[409] Let's not have him about it.

[410] I'm sure Dustin knows dark web.

[411] Look at how excited he looks.

[412] He's doing the thing when we talk about something.

[413] He's like, I know about this.

[414] I know about this.

[415] He's doing it.

[416] That kind of a, wait, do you actually.

[417] like murder stuff like this, Dustin?

[418] I think I'm more affected by it than you are.

[419] Oh.

[420] Okay.

[421] So you don't get stoked and excited.

[422] You wouldn't be at a party with us and stick around our conversation.

[423] You'd walk away, probably.

[424] I'd have nothing.

[425] I would, yeah, probably.

[426] Oh my God, I never even thought to ask that.

[427] What a beautiful thing that you still come here and record this with that.

[428] Thanks, Dustin, and gave us a podcast to be given with.

[429] It turns out those headphones, It's just blasting radiohead the whole time.

[430] It's just, you know I see no idea what we're saying.

[431] Radiohead, I love it.

[432] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[433] Absolutely.

[434] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[435] Exactly.

[436] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[437] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[438] That's right.

[439] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere, online, in -store, on social media, and beyond.

[440] Give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[441] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

[442] So give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[443] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[444] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[445] Connect with customers inline and online.

[446] Do retail right with Shopify.

[447] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[448] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[449] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[450] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[451] Goodbye.

[452] Hey, this is exciting.

[453] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[454] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster detectives.

[455] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone, who killed Saz, and where they really after Charles?

[456] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[457] This season murder hits close to home.

[458] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[459] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[460] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[461] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[462] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Daveine, Joy, Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[463] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[464] Goodbye.

[465] Okay, so here's the research part.

[466] And I hope I do this justice, but I'm not going to because I basically did only part of my homework.

[467] But essentially, this is it in a nutshell.

[468] I'm excited.

[469] The guy's name was Paul Bateson.

[470] And he was in real life, a 38 -year -old x -ray tech at NYU Med Center where they shot that scene.

[471] Oh, it's called an arteriogram, is what she was getting in that scene.

[472] scene, which is like the crazy machine that like it looks like a, not a centrifuge, but like the thing that spins you in all those different directions, very upsetting and weird noises.

[473] So I guess when they probably, when they went to like, go location scout, he was there.

[474] They cast him because he already worked there and knew how to work the machine.

[475] Legit already.

[476] Right.

[477] And what I love is the link that Brian B sent us, the picture that comes up with this article, he looks so creepy he looks like any dude in the 70s like kind of forward his hair's going forward kind of sandy blonde um goate but his eyes are like his eyes are drooping like they're melting so like you were like that what a great casting job that they hired this actor and it's like nope it's he's really this is what he looks like and that's why they hired him from this creepy movie yeah and I don't know I don't know if I mean that's a little woo -woo to think but like his secret life was the reason that scene was so creepy.

[478] I actually, oh, this was before.

[479] So he went, these murders happened later in the 70s.

[480] So I think he did that first.

[481] Okay.

[482] Oh, no, sorry.

[483] The murder started in 1973.

[484] So that was...

[485] So he was like on camera having had murdered someone.

[486] I think so.

[487] I would have to look up...

[488] The movie came out in 73 and was...

[489] I'm the one that did this.

[490] Oh, you're good.

[491] Just pretend like you know what you're talking...

[492] I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

[493] Oh, no. it.

[494] Yeah, I think he murdered he must have murdered before.

[495] Directly.

[496] I think he was doing it during and then ended up getting caught after because it was over a period of time.

[497] So essentially what happened is so these people started going missing or there was like murder scene.

[498] So the first one was a man named Ronald Cabo.

[499] He lived in the West Village and he was stabbed to death on his sofa and then his apartment was set on fire.

[500] He's 29 years old.

[501] Holy shit.

[502] Holy shit.

[503] Someone take a shot.

[504] Holy shit, right?

[505] Because he's so young.

[506] Yeah.

[507] And then four days later, so they just think that's standard murder in New York City in 1973.

[508] Four days later, a man named Donald McNiven, who was 40 years old, and a guy named John P .W. Beardsley, age 53, were both found in Donald's apartment on Verick Street.

[509] They both lived in the building, but they were in Donald's apartment.

[510] And again, the apartment had been set on fire.

[511] And Beardsley was actually on the social register in New York and Philadelphia.

[512] So he was like some fancy he had been a Harvard grad.

[513] So, and they had no idea.

[514] They just looked like another bad stabbing murder.

[515] I think Beardsley was the one stabbed and McNibin was bludgeoned.

[516] Did they, it was four days later?

[517] Four days later.

[518] Did they connect the two immediately, I wonder?

[519] Not at all.

[520] How do you not connect to stabbing and fires?

[521] Well, maybe they might have, like, noted it, but in the 70s, New York City, I think there's several murders a day.

[522] And they're not sharing precinct to precinct murders.

[523] Right.

[524] Two weeks later, the body of Robin Barrero was found floating in the Hudson River.

[525] He had been missing for five weeks.

[526] And he was still in a leather jacket.

[527] He was really decomposed, but he had a leather jacket on.

[528] And then, nine days after that, two gay men were murdered, I think they think they were roommates and their dog, their pet poodle.

[529] No. Yes.

[530] And from the stuff that was in the apartment at that murder is when they started putting together, this is, these are all people who have something to do with the leather community.

[531] Okay, I was going to say that that would make sense.

[532] Yeah, the leather jacket started.

[533] And in that first guy, Robert Barrero, or sorry, Ronald Cabo, the picture that they have up of him, he's really young, and he's wearing a leather jacket.

[534] So I'm sure at the time, it was like, oh, that's just fashion choice, whatever.

[535] But then person after person, they're probably finding different things.

[536] And so by the end, one of the jackets, they got the tag, and they found, it belonged to a store in the West Village that was completely an S &M store, SM clothing, and supplies.

[537] So it was like a leather gay.

[538] gay boys killing.

[539] And so that's when they start to realize oh this is gay but once again it's just like the freeway murders in L .A. Right.

[540] It's a gay community thing or any disenfranchised when it's prostitutes totally.

[541] The cops are like who cares?

[542] No one cares and we're not going to get pressure from City Hall.

[543] I mean I'm sure they could if it's someone in the community and everyone who's being killed is in that community you talk to the rest of the people in that community and they're like this guy's creepy and has gone home with all of these men.

[544] Right.

[545] It's pretty simple.

[546] No, it's not.

[547] I mean, I'm sure it's not that simple, but it seems like...

[548] It's not that simple, but it's the thing of what people decide to value.

[549] Right.

[550] So if the people in power don't value your life or you're, what you do in the community, if they actually think you're gross or bad or judge you morally, then they won't try to help you or they won't feel any, you know, burning desire to find your killer.

[551] Well, they say, I mean, this is what they say, and I've totally, so they say you're living a high -risk lifestyle already.

[552] Are you living a high -risk lifestyle?

[553] Well, then, are you a prostitute?

[554] Are you a drug addict?

[555] Are you living, you know, in a gay community where you're around a lot of strange men a lot?

[556] Yeah.

[557] That's a high -risk lifestyle and they care less about you.

[558] Yeah.

[559] Because they think you kind of, living a high -risk lifestyle means you kind of deserved it.

[560] It's, you brought it on yourself.

[561] I'm not saying, I'm not saying I think that, but.

[562] Of course not.

[563] But it's an excuse.

[564] I'm sure when cops see, you know, New York City in the 70s, they saw probably 20 murders a day.

[565] Yeah.

[566] So you're trying to somehow prioritize these things or you can't put your heart and soul into every single thing that comes across your death.

[567] Totally.

[568] But so, but I'm sure it got very easy to start marginalizing the deaths of these people or to not put things, you know, put things together.

[569] Yeah.

[570] So anyway, body parts start washing up on the shore of the Hudson River.

[571] So.

[572] there's like apparently there's a gay cruising spot by the Hudson River Peers and that's where different body parts wrapped in garbage bags start showing up and so they putting all this together they started calling the whole case the in the bag killer.

[573] Oh wow.

[574] And so you can tell by that obviously there's not there's not a lot of sensitivity back then anyway but that's basically their attitude about all the stuff that's going on.

[575] So then a drag performer, they said drag performer in this article, but let's call her a drag queen.

[576] I bet she was a queen.

[577] Yeah.

[578] And her name was Tony Lee, and she was strangled in her apartment in the West Village, and the Village Voice wrote a big article about it, because she was famous.

[579] A lot of people knew her.

[580] And that's when they started to really put together.

[581] They knew for a fact that after hours and after like the normal bars, she would go to leather bars.

[582] And so that's when they, you know, we're like, oh, we think we really, we're onto something with this, like, leather theory.

[583] And then a man named Addison Varel, who was 36, and he was the film critic for Variety Magazine, he was found stabbed and bludgeoned, stabbed and bludgeoned with a cast iron skillet in his apartment.

[584] And so where all of them are in their own apartments, meaning that this person was allowed to come in.

[585] Yes, that's right.

[586] That's what scares me the most is like, yeah, I know this person.

[587] I see him around my scene.

[588] Yeah, it's pickup stuff.

[589] It's like it's, they're going to sex bars or going to leather bars.

[590] Or just, you know, the 70s, this is like the looking for Mr. Goodbar.

[591] Where everybody was like, it was post hippie shit where people are like, yeah, I'm sexually liberated.

[592] It was pre -AIDS epidemic.

[593] Yeah.

[594] Where it was kind of like, yeah, everybody wants to have sex.

[595] Let's do this thing.

[596] Yeah.

[597] There's a lot of trust.

[598] And especially with they were in this thing I was reading about is like the leather community, there's lots, you know, like, leather daddies are like really big, musly men.

[599] Yeah.

[600] So they don't think anyone's going to hurt them.

[601] They're, you know, in charge.

[602] It's all, it's very overblown, presentational masculinity.

[603] It's less of a risk than a woman going home with a man because a man can defend himself supposedly against another man. Yeah.

[604] Exactly.

[605] And also they're like, um, that's part of the play, which I'm sure is the other thing.

[606] The cops were like, you know, this is a little something that got out of hand type of thing.

[607] Right.

[608] Right.

[609] you're into anyway.

[610] Right.

[611] Blame, blame, blame.

[612] Right.

[613] So this journalist named Arthur Bell wrote up this big article after Addison Varel, after the story came out that he was stabbed because the whole, the whole story about Addison Varyl was whitewashed.

[614] They didn't talk about him being gay.

[615] It was very like a terrible murder, but they made it sound like a passing thing.

[616] And Arthur Bell was like, there's a serious serial killer in our community.

[617] And we have to start giving a shit.

[618] And if nobody's going to give a shit about somebody that's famous, like, you know, like, this is our chance or whatever.

[619] So he wrote a big, huge article for The Village Voice about that people needed to start, like, real police work needed to start going into this because people were very afraid.

[620] And then he got a phone call.

[621] No. Arthur Bell, this journalist, he gets a phone call from a man who tells him, I'm the guy that killed Addison Verrill.

[622] And we were together.

[623] I met him at a bar.

[624] We went back to his apartment.

[625] And while we were like after we had sex, I had an epiphany.

[626] And I realized this was not a reciprocal relationship.

[627] He didn't love me. He didn't want to be my boyfriend.

[628] He didn't want to get married.

[629] And I wasn't getting anything I wanted.

[630] And that's why I killed him.

[631] And he tells him a bunch of specifics, including that there was Crisco all over the scene.

[632] of the crime, which was a very common lubricant that people used back then.

[633] But that had not been released to the press in anyway.

[634] And so Arthur Bell calls the cops and says, I just got this phone call that was crazy.

[635] I figured I should tell you.

[636] And he starts telling them these details that no one else knows besides the cops.

[637] And the cops know this is the real guy.

[638] Holy crap.

[639] So he talked to the real killer, which is insane.

[640] So then Arthur gets a call from a guy named Richard Ryan who said he also knew who the killer was because he had met him and talked to him and this guy had basically told him, I think he said he met him in AA or something.

[641] And he basically had been trying to get sober and had admitted to him that like he had killed Addison Barrel.

[642] Wow.

[643] And so.

[644] But that's the only one he admitted to killing.

[645] Yes.

[646] So he, Arthur Bell takes that information, goes to the cops, gives them the name.

[647] And that's what.

[648] and they go and find Paul Bateson.

[649] And after they arrested Bateson, he was in Rikers.

[650] And apparently he was bragging to everybody in there that he not only killed out of some girl, but he was killing, quote, like a bunch of gay guys just for fun because he was bored.

[651] Holy shit.

[652] And so then...

[653] Just for fun because he was bored.

[654] Yeah.

[655] He was starting to impress people.

[656] Go bowling, dude.

[657] He was cutting people up, wrapping their parts.

[658] in bags and dumping him in the river.

[659] So they think he's actually, they think he's responsible for way more murders.

[660] But he would only, he pled guilty to the Addison Barrel murder, got 20 years and he got out in 2004.

[661] 20 years from just.

[662] For stabbing, bludgeoning murder.

[663] Just because you got sad that someone didn't love you.

[664] Dude.

[665] Oh, you mean the murderer?

[666] Yeah.

[667] Oh, yeah.

[668] No, yeah.

[669] You got bummed that Addison didn't love you.

[670] Well, but you know this.

[671] I mean, he's psychotic or, you know.

[672] Yeah, but it's so weird.

[673] Like, so.

[674] What's the word I'm looking of?

[675] It's not like they got in a fight.

[676] He just killed him and he only gets 20 years.

[677] Yeah.

[678] That bothers me so much.

[679] Well, he's crazy.

[680] He clearly can't, you know.

[681] I know.

[682] What's he going to have another relationship?

[683] I just hate, how is he going to deal with that?

[684] I hate that there are people like that out there.

[685] Yeah, there's lots of them.

[686] I don't.

[687] So, but here's the interesting thing.

[688] So William Freitken hears about this.

[689] Finds out that an extra in his movie was a serial killer goes to Rikers and starts interviewing him.

[690] and then decides, and in the meantime, somebody else, I don't have the author's name, wrote a book called Cruising, which was about a serial killer in the 70s leather scene in New York City.

[691] And so Freedkin goes and talks to Paul Bateson and then decides he's going to direct the movie.

[692] No way.

[693] And so there's a movie called Cruising starring Al Pacino about a cop that's going undercover in the New York City leather scene to find a serial killer.

[694] Did you watch it?

[695] I have not seen it.

[696] I wonder if it's easy to find or if it's one of those.

[697] I think it is.

[698] Well, it's kind of infamous because it's very homophobic.

[699] It's very bad.

[700] Yeah.

[701] Like, it basically says all these people are deviance without morals and would kill you and kill anybody.

[702] And there's a lot of bad stuff in it.

[703] And when the gay community found out that they were shooting this movie in New York City, they all, it basically galvanized the gay rights movement.

[704] And they would go down and, like, protest the shooting, the, well, while they were filming.

[705] So they would go down with whistles and they were they were holding up like mirrors and making light go into the scenes or whatever.

[706] That's great.

[707] But they ended up shooting it anyway.

[708] They got it done.

[709] And when it came out, everyone was like, this is the worst like up until that point.

[710] Most gay men in film were like, oh, you're the kooky butler that has no real life or personality.

[711] And they don't actually say you're gay.

[712] They just imply it.

[713] You're just a joke.

[714] Right.

[715] You're just a joke.

[716] And now you're not just, now you're, when you're not a joke, you're a murderer.

[717] And a murder victim who kind of deserves it.

[718] You're a victim, exactly.

[719] And everything about your life lacks all morals and you're just, you're basically, yeah.

[720] How much more real would that whole story be if the person, the murderer, it had nothing to do with the fact that he was gay?

[721] He's just a fucking psychopathic murderer.

[722] Yes.

[723] You know?

[724] Yeah.

[725] But I mean, yeah, it's just the whole thing is super awful.

[726] There's a great movie called The Celluloid Closet.

[727] And it's a documentary about, you know, all.

[728] gay people in Hollywood and the treatment of them and basically the way they've been presented and seen.

[729] It's pretty fascinating.

[730] And they talk about cruising.

[731] It's really good.

[732] I think that's it.

[733] I had something else, but.

[734] Sorry, my cats are attacking each other next to you.

[735] That's amazing.

[736] That's it.

[737] So tell me his name again.

[738] I want to go.

[739] Paul Bateson is his name.

[740] I want to go back and see that scene where there's a fucking real life serial killer.

[741] I know.

[742] It's really good.

[743] It's very, very creepy scene.

[744] Now, I should have watched, I just didn't have time to watch cruising, but I also know it's incredibly depressing.

[745] There's no point in you watching that.

[746] And I also read, like, reviews of it.

[747] And apparently it's not very cohesive, and it was initially rated X. So they had to pull out all these scenes because there's all this, like, you know, kind of intense leather scene shit.

[748] And they wouldn't be MPA or whatever they're called would not let William Freak.

[749] So basically, when he had to edit it, it came out way shorter and almost nonsensical.

[750] Oh my God.

[751] Yeah.

[752] And people always talk about wanting to go back in time, which I totally fucking do.

[753] But the 70s, even the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, we're so racist and homophobic and fucking sexist.

[754] Would you really want to go back?

[755] I mean, that's a thing.

[756] It's just this, it's, the more we talk about stuff like this, it just becomes this, like, humanist thing to me where it's just like we have people have to, I mean, it's separate from mentally ill people who just like have to murder.

[757] But it's a thing of like we have to look at each other as human beings.

[758] It's crazy that, you know what I mean?

[759] We always want to go, oh, those people, they get what they deserve.

[760] Or it's like, are you fucking crazy?

[761] Yeah.

[762] But if something happens to you, you don't deserve it.

[763] Yeah, someone could say, you and I could be in a category that someone, a lot of people out there would say that about for whatever reason, because we're women, because we live in Los Angeles, because, you know, whatever the reasons.

[764] Yeah.

[765] So people could say that about you.

[766] So why would you say that about other people?

[767] Right.

[768] It's just, I don't know, it's just lame.

[769] It's just, I don't know.

[770] I don't know.

[771] At the end of all these stories, I'm always like, that's lame.

[772] I'm sorry, I brought it up.

[773] I'm sorry, I brought it up.

[774] It's a rough one.

[775] It's called my favorite murder.

[776] I'm sorry, I brought it up.

[777] I'm not.

[778] Yeah, there's something fascinating to the idea that there's just like a person in a horror movie that's also living is walking the walk.

[779] I wonder if he in his twisted brain was like laughing at the eye.

[780] any of it too.

[781] I know, I wonder.

[782] He's apparently a very bad alcoholic too.

[783] So he claimed he didn't remember a lot.

[784] He's still alive and he's out.

[785] Yeah, yeah.

[786] I think he's died since.

[787] He's got out in 2004.

[788] He's living in upstate New York.

[789] What did he do after?

[790] Just chill and make breakfast.

[791] Did he make breakfast for himself every day?

[792] You know what?

[793] He went down to the community center and he that's so crazy.

[794] He loved to help with the spaghetti dinner every month.

[795] Isn't it crazy that You only have to go door to door and let your community know if you're a pedophile, but not if you're a convicted murderer.

[796] Serial killer.

[797] A convicted serial murderer.

[798] He wasn't convicted for all of them, though.

[799] So, yeah, just a killer.

[800] Just a killer.

[801] So you don't have to let them know that unless you fondle children.

[802] Right.

[803] I want to know if someone next to me next word of me is, no, I don't.

[804] Do I?

[805] No. You know, there's pros and cons.

[806] There is pros and cons.

[807] It'd be hard to sleep.

[808] And it'd be better as if sentencing were.

[809] a little more harsh harsher for the people who will take you out it's not that harsh isn't the word fitting is the word yeah that's right oh jesus that's right hey what's your murder july okay so hiding in plain sight when you said that to me i was like oh okay i didn't really get it no i was excited about it because i was like so you mean like serial killers who have day jobs like i didn't really understand it so i was like yeah that's kind of what i meant okay yeah and you said yes so i was like what does that mean to me hiding in plain sight and to me that meant being, and I'm fascinated by this and how disgusting it is, hiding in plain sight is being a child who kills someone.

[810] Because that's plain sight is being a child.

[811] And this one is kind of, so I have two similar but very different child murderers that I've always thought about because they're so fucked up.

[812] And the first one is, the murderer is Josh Phillips.

[813] And he killed Maddie Clifton.

[814] So, do you know this one?

[815] No. Yeah.

[816] This one is a kind of well -known one, but it's interesting because recently some new information came out about it.

[817] So basically, this kid, Josh Phillips, was born in 1984.

[818] He's from Jacksonville, Florida.

[819] And in July 1999, he was convicted of murdering his eight -year -old neighbor, Maddie Clifton.

[820] He murdered her in November 98.

[821] He was 14 years old, and she was nine years old.

[822] And what happened was Maddie disappeared.

[823] And the whole community started looking for her and couldn't find her.

[824] And then the search ended a week after the disappearance when Josh Phillips' mother went to clean up Josh's room and thought his waterbed was leaking, which A, don't get your kid a waterbed.

[825] B, it's not leaking.

[826] You're not like a bachelor.

[827] What is that?

[828] Yeah, way to give your kid fucking back problems and send them to jail at the same time.

[829] Because what's more comfortable, the water bed or the jail?

[830] mattress.

[831] I don't know.

[832] It's always the mother's fault.

[833] It's Melissa, you needed to get this together.

[834] Upon further examination, she discovered that it was Maddie's body hidden inside, hidden like underneath the bed.

[835] And she, and fucking kudos to her, ran outside across the street there was a police and was like, hey, this kid, you know, like some parents, I don't know if they would do that immediately or they would wait until he came home and talking.

[836] I'm like, what the fuck, and then call the police.

[837] She was like, get the first.

[838] you know, freaked out.

[839] Oh, that is amazing.

[840] So Josh was arrested at school that day and he was held in maximum security.

[841] So here's what's so fucked up about it.

[842] As a 14 year old, he was tried as an adult and sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

[843] Like adult killers who kill more people in a more fucked up way and sexually assault them are not given such a harsh sentence.

[844] Right.

[845] And so according to Josh, what happened was that Maddie came next door to play with him.

[846] And, and, And despite the fact that Josh wasn't allowed to have people over, when his parents weren't home, he let her in anyways.

[847] The two are playing, according to him, the two are playing baseball outside.

[848] Josh threw the ball and it struck Maddie in the eye causing her to start bleeding.

[849] And she started to scream.

[850] And Josh freaks out because his father is abusive and has a temper.

[851] And if he finds out that Maddie's there, the fact that she's screaming and got hurt at his house, he's going to be in a shit ton of trouble, including being abused.

[852] So he takes her to his room.

[853] I don't know if I should even go into the details because I know people who are listening have children and I don't want to...

[854] Well, if you have children and you are listening to a murder podcast but you're going to get sensitive, then I would go forward one minute and 30 seconds.

[855] Thank you.

[856] Basically, she died from stabbing and strangulation and clubbing with a baseball bat.

[857] overkill, took her pants off but didn't, but she wasn't molested, which is odd.

[858] Also, I was reading something on Reddit that said that she didn't have any, he said he dragged her inside the house, but there wasn't any dirt or sticks or anything on her, on her body, on her clothes, which would indicate that that had happened.

[859] So we don't really know for sure.

[860] And that's a really, that's, I mean, he tries to get off easy by saying he hit her in the head, but then he goes on to to over and tells how he killed her.

[861] So it's not like he was, if he was lying about one of them, why wouldn't he lie about both of them?

[862] Yeah.

[863] So he's, he's never going to be free.

[864] She was nude from the waist down, but it didn't seem.

[865] And so the murder appears to have been motivated by his fear of his abusive father.

[866] It's just so fucked up.

[867] Do they know that's true or that be another thing he could have been making it?

[868] Yeah, we don't know that either.

[869] Or even that maybe the, because I watched a couple episodes of, of, you know, true crime shows where the parents get interviewed.

[870] And maybe that was something they made up even to say, like, oh, no, the father was abusive and he was scared of him.

[871] Like, let's give him an out.

[872] So we don't know if that was true or not.

[873] You think you're right.

[874] Especially the stabbing part.

[875] The stabbing is such a furious and personal thing.

[876] He also choked her for 15 minutes.

[877] Oh, yeah.

[878] That is a lot.

[879] And it's very hard to choke someone to death.

[880] I think we all, if you're into true crime, you know this.

[881] It takes a lot longer and a lot more force.

[882] And that's when you're an adult.

[883] That's when you're an adult.

[884] But she's also eight or nine, so she's probably a little more fragile.

[885] She's, I mean, the thing that fucks me up about this is that she's this little tomboy girl.

[886] And she reminds me of me as a kid who wanted to hang out with the older boys and play with them and be one of the guys.

[887] There's a video, there's a home video he made that the boy made of this little girl, Maddie and her sister playing with their new puppy.

[888] So, like, she trusted this kid next door.

[889] She wanted to come over and was bugging him to play with her.

[890] And as a 14 -year -old...

[891] Did he have, like, a history of anything?

[892] Not, no. No mental stuff or anything?

[893] The dad died in a car accident eventually.

[894] Okay, so in 2012, recently, the Supreme Court ruled that automatic life without parole sentences for juveniles is unconstitutional.

[895] And that ruling entitles Phillips to a resentencing hearing.

[896] Also, he's super hot now.

[897] Whatever.

[898] That's just beside the point.

[899] But let's just put it out there.

[900] Let's just let everyone know that.

[901] Let's just get those people on Tinder aware.

[902] Yeah.

[903] And there's not a ton of conversation about this murder, like on Reddit or anything like that.

[904] So I just thought it was interesting.

[905] I agree that life without parole for a 14 year old is insane.

[906] Even though I get it, I mean that stabbing a little girl to death and strangling.

[907] Something happened on that boy.

[908] Something very bad happened that boy, whether it's a psychotic break, whether it was something to, he was terribly abused.

[909] Well, there was an interesting conversation in Reddit in like the one little bit I was able to find where this commenter was saying, you know, when I was a kid, my dad was abusive and all you wanted to do was not get in trouble.

[910] You didn't think about what would happen in the future if you got caught hiding, whatever it was that you were in trouble.

[911] Getting in trouble meant the whole family would be terrorized.

[912] So you do whatever you can to not get in trouble that moment.

[913] And it kind of made sense in a way that was like, she's not dying from this way.

[914] She's not dying.

[915] I need to kill her at this point and get it over with because I'm going to get in trouble for having had someone over, which is, you know, maybe he was a little, maybe he was developmentally delayed, but 14 year old, 14 seems too old to think that killing someone was an okay solution to that.

[916] Yes, for sure.

[917] Also, I feel like, hitting someone in the head and being afraid and this is this is just theory obviously he would just hit her in the head a bunch more times right why not just smack her in the head with a baseball bat this the other part just gets so violent up close crazy bloody I mean like yeah almost like wanting to see what what happens you know and the pants down thing is not good the pants down thing is a very a very it's sexual no matter what yeah so even if you didn't touch her, it's sexual.

[918] Yes.

[919] And stabbing is sexual in that, you know, in that psychosexual way.

[920] Yeah, totally.

[921] Strangling, too.

[922] I mean.

[923] Yeah.

[924] Oh, man. I mean, and when you strangle someone, you, for the most part, have to look at them in the face.

[925] Yeah.

[926] If you can fucking do that, you got some major issues beyond you being scared.

[927] You're going to get a belt whipping from your dad.

[928] Yeah.

[929] And also, I mean, people always say this, but I'll just say it anyway.

[930] There's, you can hear the course of people who were abused by terrible parents who were like, I would never kill anybody.

[931] Right.

[932] So it's not A plus B. Like, I think that that psychiatric element is absolutely, has to be there.

[933] Yeah.

[934] Because here's the other thing, too, you're right.

[935] A mother who would immediately run across the street.

[936] Like, obviously, it's insane finding a dead body under your son's bed.

[937] Yeah.

[938] But the, she knew.

[939] She knew he did it.

[940] Like, it wasn't, I don't know, she didn't go, let's let the cops tell us what happened.

[941] She went, you have to go get my son.

[942] Her first thought was for the little girl and her family who was waiting to find where she was and not for her kid or for the dad who, you know, because if you find the body, someone in the house did it, you might not know it's your son.

[943] Her first thought was that I found this, the girl.

[944] Yeah.

[945] She's clearly the victim, not my son.

[946] That's amazing.

[947] Yeah.

[948] That's.

[949] It's fucked up.

[950] There's another one too.

[951] Maybe I don't need to get into it.

[952] Do it, do it.

[953] It's just Eric Smith, the red, like, the little, the redhead kid.

[954] He killed his parents?

[955] No. Okay.

[956] So Eric Smith, born 1980, um, he murdered four -year -old Derek Roby on August 2nd, 1993.

[957] This is in Steuben County, New York.

[958] So Eric had, Eric, unlike Josh, had been diagnosed by a defense psychiatrist with intermittent explosive disorder, it's a mental disorder causing individuals to act out violently and unpredictably.

[959] He was a loner, he was tormented by bullies, he was like a nerdy redhead.

[960] You look at him as a kid in court, especially.

[961] There are these videos of him in court and he's just this, you can tell he's troubled just by looking at him.

[962] You can tell he'd been bullied.

[963] You can tell he didn't like himself.

[964] And he basically said he took his anger out on this little kid, this sweet little Derek Robey, who was riding his bike to summer camp.

[965] And Eric was riding his bike to summer camp.

[966] And four -year -old Derek was walking alone to the same camp.

[967] They saw each other.

[968] He lured him into the nearby woods.

[969] And then Smith, like, overkill the shit out of him.

[970] Like, so this was on purpose.

[971] Like, you know, it's such a weird thing.

[972] It's like, well, these two different things where this kid said that he had to do it because he hit her in the head.

[973] And his dad was going to find out this.

[974] kid just straight up wanted to murder someone.

[975] And I remember hearing this thing about one of the, one of the many fucking true crime tales I watched that he, that, that, that, uh, Eric took a banana out of his lunch and smashed it into the little kid's face.

[976] And later that night, the aunt or someone was babysitting him and got a banana out.

[977] And the kid freaked out.

[978] And I think that's how they figured out who it was.

[979] The kid freaked out over the banana.

[980] So basically, uh, He, Smith said that he'd been bullied by older children in high school and that is by his father and sister.

[981] And he confessed that he took his rage out on Roby, but was worried that Roby would tell.

[982] So he killed him.

[983] It's very odd.

[984] How old was he when he did it?

[985] So this kid was, um, Eric was, do, do, do, do, do, do.

[986] I think he was 14 as well.

[987] Oh, wow.

[988] I just remember looking at pictures of him.

[989] Oh, you know why?

[990] Because when I was doing the, those two boys that killed their dad, his picture came up all the time.

[991] And he looks so young.

[992] He looks, he's in a blazer.

[993] He doesn't look 13.

[994] He looks like he could be, he looks like he's 9.

[995] 11 or 12.

[996] Yeah, nine.

[997] And he's got those ears that stick out.

[998] Big old ears.

[999] And if you look at him now, too, because there's some interviews with, there's some jailhouse interviews with him now.

[1000] Like, he's just so apologetic to the family.

[1001] He says, I wish I could take the kid's place.

[1002] Like, he's very, very remorseful.

[1003] about it.

[1004] But even now he looks, he looks like remember the redheaded guy in the burbs who lived, who was one of the haunted that lived in the house?

[1005] He looks like him now.

[1006] It's just like he doesn't look which is such, I shouldn't judge someone by the way they look, but you know.

[1007] Well, I mean, that's why people get bullied.

[1008] If you look different.

[1009] Yeah, definitely.

[1010] It's, oh.

[1011] Well, so he's been apologizing through in prison.

[1012] This other kid, Josh, he has since gone on to he got his, he got a degree in parent and being a paralegal, and he's been working as a paralegal, helping other inmates with their appeals.

[1013] So both of these people have, like, have gone on to try to make amends for their murder.

[1014] Do they deserve to be in prison forever?

[1015] And I'm not, I'm not asking, like, they don't.

[1016] I fucking don't know.

[1017] Right.

[1018] It really brings, well, it makes you come way off the, like, let them all fry.

[1019] Right.

[1020] Which is, I like to feel that way just because it's very comfortable and, like, a simple solution.

[1021] But it's the same reason that I don't, I still can't.

[1022] give anyone a definite answer about the death penalty.

[1023] Right.

[1024] I just couldn't give anyone an answer.

[1025] Right.

[1026] Because I don't fucking know.

[1027] There's so many different circumstances.

[1028] I know.

[1029] It's true.

[1030] It's so, it's much more complex than one thing or the other.

[1031] And it's case by case.

[1032] But I mean, yeah, it's and it's difficult because I understand people saying like it's wrong to kill and revenge is wrong and like one wrong doesn't make a right.

[1033] Right.

[1034] I agree with all of it.

[1035] But then you hear a story about a dad murdering his child.

[1036] molester, and you're like, yeah, good.

[1037] 100%.

[1038] Or like you hear about repeat molesters.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] That kind of thing.

[1041] Those priests that have molested 600 children kill them immediately.

[1042] I mean, I honestly feel that way.

[1043] It's just like, what good are you?

[1044] You clearly don't, this is what you're going to do.

[1045] And what life, you have ruined 600 lives, if not more.

[1046] But then you hear, well, he was molested when he was a kid constantly.

[1047] And maybe if his molester had just been taken out.

[1048] Right.

[1049] With a single bullet.

[1050] I mean, it's so calm.

[1051] This is why we have this podcast is because if we could talk about this for hours and hours, which is what we're going to do.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] I mean, it's so rough.

[1054] Also, that kid, and I mean, I didn't.

[1055] I've never had explosive anger.

[1056] But I understand, like, getting in, especially if you do drugs.

[1057] Like, when I used to be on speed, I took diet pills for a long time, which, yes, I lost 30 pounds in one month.

[1058] 30 pounds in one month.

[1059] I had friends who are like, are you okay?

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] I'm the best.

[1062] I should stop talking and smoking.

[1063] Right.

[1064] Not breathing.

[1065] But you do have that thing where there's a, the weirdest feeling that's so separate when you have like a rage explosion or like a like a like when you get onto that track and you can't get back off of it.

[1066] It's like a panic when you have a panic attack.

[1067] Exactly.

[1068] It's like your brain is having a reaction separate from you.

[1069] And to be a child trapped inside that, I mean.

[1070] I under, I can't help but understand taking it out on someone else.

[1071] because I was bullied as a kid but I was a little and my brother and sister were you know fucked with me not abusive but as older siblings will do and I'm the youngest so I can't take it out on anyone else so I just hurt animals no I'm just kidding would not be fucking hilarious so I just hurt my cat no my god but yeah you when my mom would be a bitch I would get so fucking pissed it's that thing of punching a wall because there's nothing else to punch and this kid clearly wasn't taught self -control if he was abused by his dad and his sister.

[1072] He was taught that that violence against someone smaller than you is okay.

[1073] Yes, that's exactly right.

[1074] That's almost like a larger, almost like he, I know he didn't do this in any way consciously.

[1075] It's symbolic.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] It's him going, here's what we do.

[1078] Right.

[1079] Here's what we do.

[1080] Here's what happens to me. Yeah.

[1081] It's going to go this far.

[1082] The idea of a father and sister being bullying and abusive within a family, it's disgusting to me, like that's what a terrible sad life that kid had.

[1083] I completely see it.

[1084] You know, I think about like the things we, I was bullied, but I said so many shitty things to kids like the nerdy kids when I was younger and I think about them all the time and what their home lives were like and that I contributed to their fucking their awful lives.

[1085] And it disgusts me. I mean, that's the thing too.

[1086] I feel like when your kids, you do these things because you don't have, you don't have the a mature sense of where you belong in the world what other people's lives are like I remember being like honestly being like in fifth grade and asking my teacher who was a friend of our family and she would eat in her a house sometime and I asked her one night like there's a girl in my class and I was like why is Sarah's face always dirty and she was like because she doesn't have anybody to wash it for her and it blew my mind I was like, I assumed every single other kid had the exact same life.

[1087] Totally.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] And I mean, like, in my, my existence, like, I was loudly making fun of other kids because I was happy that I wasn't the kid at that moment getting made fun of.

[1090] Exactly right.

[1091] And because I wanted to show everyone that I was part of the group, too, that I could make fun of this person too, because I was getting made fun of it.

[1092] It's not okay.

[1093] We've talked about it.

[1094] I do it to this day of, like, the quickest way to bond with someone is to figure out who you both hate.

[1095] Oh, for sure.

[1096] And that's just human nature.

[1097] That's that thing of like, yeah, you deflect.

[1098] I'm not the bad one.

[1099] Isn't that person the bad one?

[1100] Yeah.

[1101] It's how we do it.

[1102] And it takes a lot of strength and a lot of like, it's very difficult to have, like, with human interaction, if you've gotten dealt a shitty hand every time to still be like, I'm going to handle this great.

[1103] To be kind.

[1104] When you're 12.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] I mean, like, you can't do it.

[1107] We're 31 and it's hard enough to.

[1108] I wish I was 31.

[1109] girl.

[1110] You are.

[1111] Karen's 31, everyone.

[1112] On this podcast.

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] We could have you whatever.

[1115] I love it.

[1116] Drink shots.

[1117] What was I going to say?

[1118] I don't remember.

[1119] Let's not have kids over.

[1120] I mean, terrible people.

[1121] That's the other thing is like that I remember saying so the last time I was home, I said something bitchy to my niece, who I adore and we get along great.

[1122] But she was just doing something kind of jerky.

[1123] And then I was like, just go do it.

[1124] or whatever I said, and then she's like, all right.

[1125] And instead of, like, having a sensitive reaction, she's learned, because she also is the daughter of an only, you know, her, she's an only child.

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] My sister is a single mother.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] And so she's kind of learned to roll with punches for a nine year old so much better where I was like, oh man, because I felt guilty the second it came out on my mouth.

[1130] Yeah.

[1131] And I was like, if I had like a favorite aunt that like bitched at me, like snatched at me, it would hurt my feelings.

[1132] But she was kind of like, whatever, dude.

[1133] and walk away.

[1134] She's like more of an adult because she's a single, her mother's single mother and she's and she doesn't have siblings.

[1135] So she acts, your sister probably treats her more like an adult than a kid.

[1136] I think she's at, and she's very close to their two cousins who are like two and four years older than her.

[1137] So she's like, she's kind of like toughened up a little bit.

[1138] But it's, that's the other thing is when you, everybody gets picked on in some way, you learn that picking on people is a good way to up your own status.

[1139] And there's no. other, when you're young like that, there aren't options, unless you go to some amazing progressive school that teaches you about stuff like that, which it doesn't work.

[1140] It's like, no, somebody's going to get thrown in that garbage can.

[1141] And the way to make it not you is to make sure you're not home at night and your parents are abusive too.

[1142] Like, Vince always gets sad when he sees kids because he remembers how you just feel like that this is going to go on for.

[1143] forever.

[1144] You're never going to have control over your life.

[1145] You're never going to, you know, be able to make decisions on your own.

[1146] It feels fucking infinite.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] For sure.

[1149] Well, and like school politics.

[1150] Also, it feels like, oh, this is my world.

[1151] This bully is always going to be in my life.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] This girl's always going to be prettier than me. Totally.

[1154] It's all that kind of stuff that totally.

[1155] It's just the way like a teen brain works.

[1156] It turns out that we ended up being the coolest ones out there, who'd have thunk?

[1157] Here's how you be the coolest ones.

[1158] For a really long time, you're so not the coolest one.

[1159] You're severely not the coolest one.

[1160] The least coolest one usually becomes either a murderer or the coolest one.

[1161] Yes.

[1162] That's right.

[1163] It's your choice.

[1164] It is a choice.

[1165] It is a choice.

[1166] It's a path you go down.

[1167] That's what this whole thing comes back around to is it is a choice.

[1168] And these two boys chose to kill someone.

[1169] In the moment.

[1170] I know.

[1171] Here's this, like, I'm just going to play a devil's advocate psychiatrist.

[1172] It's like, if you have a. explosive disorder, it is you do not have a choice.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] It's like that thing where when I get nervous and my mouth starts talking, then I'm like, oh no, I'm talking.

[1175] It's not a choice.

[1176] What am I saying?

[1177] And we have so many outlets now, psychiatry and psychology and intense therapy to help control it.

[1178] But would you feel comfortable if that person was out in society now?

[1179] Probably not, like not in my town.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] It's that thing where, like, you know, as a parent, you'd just be so paranoid.

[1182] Totally.

[1183] Totally.

[1184] All right.

[1185] Well, that's my favorite murder.

[1186] Can I pick next week's favorite topic, I mean?

[1187] Yeah, message received, Georgia.

[1188] That was all your fault, Karen, that I got so dark and deep.

[1189] So let's, do you want to read a hometown murder?

[1190] I pick next week.

[1191] So can I?

[1192] It's like butterflies, kittens, something nice.

[1193] Butterfly murders?

[1194] Oh, the butterfly murders of the Philippines.

[1195] We absolutely can do that one.

[1196] Do you want to read us, let's see, why don't we do this?

[1197] So you want to read a favorite hometown murder that we got emailed.

[1198] You can email us at My Favorite Murder at Gmail, your hometown murder.

[1199] We'll read one every fucking week, even though we get so many.

[1200] It's incredible.

[1201] I love you guys.

[1202] And then maybe let's do a quick separate episode of other people's favorite.

[1203] On the Facebook page, I said, what's your hidden in plain sight murder?

[1204] Oh, yeah.

[1205] And I can read a few of those and maybe we can read one or two hometown murders.

[1206] So we'll have a mini episode that'll come up.

[1207] out maybe a couple days after the regular one comes out.

[1208] Great.

[1209] Is that cool?

[1210] I love it.

[1211] Okay.

[1212] So why don't you read me a hometown murder please?

[1213] Okay, cool.

[1214] This is also another, now I'm getting obsessed with follow -up.

[1215] I'm getting obsessed with like thoroughness and research and but I really do genuinely love it.

[1216] So this is a bit of a follow -up, but there's much more to it.

[1217] And it's from Lily Kay, we'll say.

[1218] Yes.

[1219] Hi, Karen and Georgia.

[1220] Can't believe how much you sound like my friend Julie and I when we're together and really get going.

[1221] I've been obsessed with true crime for so long that I became a forensic psychologist.

[1222] You are a fucking badass, Lily.

[1223] Why not do what you love?

[1224] There's nothing else in the entire world I'd rather do, and yes, you can intern for me sometimes.

[1225] Way to go.

[1226] I make my husband watch all the true crime shows, and now when he gets sick, he's convinced I'm poisoned him Like those deadly women of centuries past I love it Anyway I just found your podcast And your call for hometown crime Then I saw you did mine in your second episode Bummer But I decided not to listen to it yet And pretend you didn't do it So I can tell you about it I love it Paul Bernardo was mine And like I mentioned It affected me so much That I became a forensic psychologist When I was in high school in Toronto Toronto The Scarborough Suburb of Toronto, rapes were going on.

[1227] It was terrifying.

[1228] The bus company started letting women out at any point along the route at night, not just at stop, so we wouldn't have to walk far from the stop to home.

[1229] Oh, wow.

[1230] Our regular gym classes were canceled, and we got a specialist in to teach us self -defense.

[1231] Holy shit.

[1232] Also, there was a guy at my high school who looked more like the sketch of the Scarborough rapist than Paul ever did, and he said he was thinking of changing his hair when the sketch came out, but he was afraid that that would actually make him look more guilty.

[1233] Yeah, I would.

[1234] And then she put in parentheses.

[1235] It wasn't him, by the way.

[1236] Okay, so just as the rapes started slowing down, we heard about two girls go missing on the other side of Toronto.

[1237] Did you know Leslie Mahaffey was actually locked out of her house the night that she met Paul Bernardo?

[1238] Horrible.

[1239] She was a rebellious teen, and her mom picked that night to do some tough love on her when she broke curfew and locked her out.

[1240] And her mom locked her out.

[1241] Can I just say my mom, tough love was a, like, was a thing and my mom fucking did it and it was the worst in the 80s yeah kids parents please don't do tough love on your kids it doesn't work yeah that's right oh yeah sorry go on no that's okay it's oh my god so she locked her kid out mother locked her out of the house how much does that woman hate herself now oh i can't imagine i mean that is if she's even still alive no that is talk about the worst thing in the world totally a child dying and then you oh my god it's that's nightmare.

[1242] And then Kristen French was also portrayed as the good girl and Leslie as the more rebellious.

[1243] And Tammy Carla's sister was basically a forgotten.

[1244] I know every single detail about this case, but in case you don't want to hear it, I'll get to some good anecdotes.

[1245] This was going on throughout my entire high school life, the rapes, the murders.

[1246] Then my last year of high school, they found out it was Paul and Carla.

[1247] So of course, I went to the trial.

[1248] I actually had this college boyfriend.

[1249] I wasn't that into.

[1250] I made him go with me. Poor guy, he was really upset about being there, but I loved it.

[1251] Paul, oh, it says Paul was so incredibly in court.

[1252] I wonder what she meant.

[1253] When they took his handcuffs off, he wouldn't just turn his wrists to have them removed.

[1254] He would turn his entire body.

[1255] It was as if he was trying to look every person in the gallery in the eye.

[1256] It was creepy.

[1257] And then in college, a girl in my dorm started dating a guy named Sam who looked by Paul.

[1258] So whenever I had a couple drinks in me, I'd call them Paul.

[1259] I love this chick.

[1260] I also wrote all my psych papers in college on Paul Bernardo or Carla, abnormal psych class, personality class.

[1261] I wanted to know what made them tick.

[1262] And then she was a second one, but it's super long.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] What a terrifying fucking thing to go through high school with.

[1265] I mean, it took up their whole world.

[1266] I mean, that was crazy.

[1267] And then to find out that a woman is involved.

[1268] I don't know why.

[1269] Like, because you would see a couple and you'd think, I'm safe.

[1270] It's the ultimate lure.

[1271] Yeah.

[1272] Episode two was it?

[1273] I think so.

[1274] But that's the reason I love that she gave all those details because that was the one where I wasn't, I was a little fuzzy on my details.

[1275] Well, that you wouldn't know about it.

[1276] Same thing about watching The Simpsons is that it's information that, you know, you watch the whole trial, but you could not have known what it was like to be on the jury or what it was like in Marsha Clark's office when her boss was pissed about the glove.

[1277] That it was their idea.

[1278] to have him try the glove on.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] And also that like being, I love that she loved it so much.

[1281] She went to trials.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] That's amazing.

[1284] I can't tell you how, like I've been asking people their hometown murders for years when I'm at parties and drinking too much and calling people by murderers' names.

[1285] And this is like just feeding, this is feeding me on a level that I can't even handle.

[1286] You can really put away that voice in your head that says you're weird in any way.

[1287] Yeah.

[1288] It's just simply not weird.

[1289] Because we have an inbox full of hometown on murders to, I hope we haven't gotten any, like, yeah, it's incredible.

[1290] Any what, sorry.

[1291] I don't know, like, I wouldn't, like you said, someone asked us to be on their podcast and our Gmail, and I, like, I wouldn't see it because it's just buried underneath.

[1292] That is, there's at least one person, but I think there might be more than one person.

[1293] We need to give them a different email address.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] Um, I love it.

[1296] I did, uh, so I wrote a thing on Facebook real quick about, and I said, um, that it's like a, um, cocktail trivia, like information that I love.

[1297] love.

[1298] So mine was that, um, that everyone knows that all serial killers don't have three names has everyone thinks they do like John Wayne Gacy.

[1299] It's that they use their middle names so that normal people named John Gacy don't, don't, people don't think that they're the, you know, they don't look them up in the fucking, um, yellow pages and say, John Gacy, is that you?

[1300] And no, it's John, kill them at their house.

[1301] Wayne Gacy, right?

[1302] So I asked people there like cocktail trivia and murder facts and this person, can I read a couple?

[1303] Please.

[1304] That DNA was, um, the DNA evidence was first used to convict a killer in England in the 80s.

[1305] The killer was named Colin Pitchfork and he had killed two girls.

[1306] Wow.

[1307] Which is amazing.

[1308] But serial killers are apparently obsessive masturbators since they can't attain normal sexual relationships.

[1309] Most women who kill when using a weapon will use a knife because it's more personal.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] Many killers start out as peeping Tom's.

[1312] Let's see.

[1313] That is really creepy beat because peeping Tom's culturally have always been treated very lightly like oh this cook up in the tree yeah oh he likes he wants to look at cute girls yeah it's like that you know animal house i've got my yeah binoculars and i'm looking into this right that's murdery you're you're on your path to murder totally one more uhileen warnos last words where yes i would just like to say i'm sailing with the rock and i'll be back like independence day with jesus june 6 like the movie.

[1314] Big mothership and I'll be back.

[1315] I'll be back.

[1316] She was fucking crazy.

[1317] And someone replied and said, which is weird, because that was also my wedding bows.

[1318] This is why I love the fucking Facebook groups.

[1319] Oh my God.

[1320] Okay.

[1321] So everyone's...

[1322] I'll be sailing with the rock.

[1323] Did she mean the wrestler?

[1324] I think so.

[1325] No, the movie The Rock.

[1326] Oh.

[1327] I think.

[1328] I didn't know about that.

[1329] I lean.

[1330] I mean, honey.

[1331] A girl.

[1332] Sweetheart.

[1333] Angel.

[1334] So we're at my fave murder on Twitter.

[1335] Yes.

[1336] And you can email us at my favorite murder at Gmail.

[1337] And please, well, go to our group on Facebook.

[1338] My favorite murder is private.

[1339] So you can just like talk all the shit you want.

[1340] But also those things people are making.

[1341] Did you see the girl on Twitter that was making fake books?

[1342] No. Wait, I'll tell you what.

[1343] Okay, real quick.

[1344] Someone on the Facebook group made a murder.

[1345] bingo.

[1346] I saw that.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] And someone else made me, this made this beautiful, a quote that I said, I think last week, it said, I don't want, I don't want any survivors.

[1349] And it's like in the background of beautiful flowers and stuff.

[1350] I saw that.

[1351] It's so good.

[1352] I want them to keep doing that.

[1353] And of course, the, um, it looks like an inspirational quote, but it's you saying, I don't want to see any survivors.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] And then, of course, the, um, the, the drinking game, which is like, everyone just keeps adding, like, when they say this, when they do that, when they say this, it's like the best.

[1356] I say, I mean, that feeds right into my humongous, deep ego need.

[1357] No, totally.

[1358] People aren't listening to us.

[1359] It's a girl on Twitter named Thin Izzy.

[1360] And she's doing these, she keeps writing, read my new book.

[1361] And this says, don't burp, the Robert Durst story.

[1362] It's just stuff we've said about people and she's making it into a book.

[1363] I love her.

[1364] Or maybe, I think it's things we've said.

[1365] He definitely killed like eight people.

[1366] I was a teenage Robert Durst.

[1367] And it's like Robert Durst.

[1368] first when he was like in his early 20s.

[1369] And it just, they look like book covers.

[1370] What a gem.

[1371] Well done, thin, Izzy.

[1372] Oh, I love this one.

[1373] The staircase part two.

[1374] Oh, my God.

[1375] It's just an owl.

[1376] And then it's, he was gay in the south is one quote and a microscopic owl feathers on the other side.

[1377] Oh my God.

[1378] And it's like a beautiful photo of an owl.

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] That's incredible.

[1381] People are the best.

[1382] It's very exciting.

[1383] I think this is this, what we're doing here is just trying to make everyone know that there are, there are a lot of murders, but there are a lot more funny people.

[1384] And here's the other thing.

[1385] I remember when everybody started going bat shit crazy about, I know I've already talked shit about this on this podcast, but sex in the city in the, whenever it was late 90s, early 2000s.

[1386] And I was like, has the world gone insane?

[1387] Who gives one fuck about that stupid show?

[1388] But it was like, I'm a Miranda.

[1389] I'm in a drink of Casabelle and whatever.

[1390] And I was just sitting there like, I guess I'm just a total weirdo and a total outsider and totally alone.

[1391] You'll never connect with people on a normal because they like shit like sex in the city.

[1392] Yes.

[1393] And just, and so things like this.

[1394] It just, my heart grows 10 sizes every time I hear anything about it.

[1395] Because it's like, we have our people.

[1396] We just didn't know they were out there.

[1397] Well, the most fun is that we're the most popular ones out of the entire group of people because we're the host of this podcast.

[1398] Oh, you mean of everybody?

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] Because we started.

[1401] Going back to feeding our ego.

[1402] And it's nice that we're the bot, like we're the heads.

[1403] I have to say.

[1404] Yeah.

[1405] Over one quick conversation where you were like, we should do a podcast.

[1406] I was like, okay.

[1407] And then here's why I love Georgia Hard Star, because then she actually does it.

[1408] I wish like, yeah.

[1409] I would have, it would take me four years to actually really make a plan or be like, no, let's actually do it.

[1410] I'd love to go to little, little tiny Georgia and say, someday you're going to talk about murder and people are going to listen to you.

[1411] She would have been like, yes, that's fucking awesome.

[1412] Georgia, stop cursing your tiny little thing.

[1413] Yay.

[1414] Find us on places and thanks for listening.

[1415] We love you.

[1416] Stay sexy.

[1417] Yeah.