Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend XX
[0] Hi, I'm B .J. Novak, and I feel excited but cautious about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.
[1] You should be cautious.
[2] You and I have been circling each other like Panthers.
[3] Oh, you were circling me too?
[4] Yeah.
[5] I knew that you were so much better.
[6] Oh, man. Fall is here, hear the yell.
[7] Back to school.
[8] Ring the bell.
[9] Brand new shoes, walking blues.
[10] Climb the fence, books and pens I can tell that we are going to be friends Tell that we are going to be friends Hey there, welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend podcast.
[11] I think an enjoyable exercise for us.
[12] I know that people listen to this and I guess it's thought of as a product of some kind but I think of this as a fun opportunity to sit and explore the mysteries of the mind.
[13] What do you think, Gorley?
[14] I guess there is a certain amount of, I wouldn't call it introspection, but sibling interaction between the three of us.
[15] Yeah.
[16] I was talking to somebody about the podcast, and they were saying, oh, yeah, you really go at it with Gorley.
[17] And I said, well, I guess there's some passive aggression there.
[18] And he said, well, I'm picking up on the aggression, but no passivity.
[19] No, no, no. I could do with a little passivity.
[20] I'll try.
[21] I'll try and work some of that in.
[22] Yeah.
[23] But, no, it's nice.
[24] Let me ask you a question.
[25] Sure.
[26] Are you excited when you come into work and you're going to do this?
[27] you just sort of neutral or are you actively depressed?
[28] Full disclosure.
[29] In the early days, I was nervous.
[30] Oh, you were nervous?
[31] Of course I was.
[32] I don't know.
[33] Sonom of Sessian?
[34] Nice.
[35] I see what you're doing.
[36] Doing the old switcheroo.
[37] I'd be nervous too.
[38] Will she be cogent?
[39] She's not here.
[40] If you have rum and gummies for breakfast.
[41] Rummys?
[42] They're called rummies, yeah.
[43] No, it's funny because I'm always in a real good mood when we come to do this.
[44] Me too.
[45] I'm happy to do it.
[46] It doesn't feel like work.
[47] And when people tell me they enjoy the podcast, I'm always kind of delighted because I think, that's nice that you like it because it's really fun to do.
[48] It's gravy.
[49] It's really, it's gravy.
[50] It is gravy.
[51] Because at first, I didn't really know how to, you and Sona had a rapport.
[52] I was a little afraid because I didn't know how to kind of trade in that way.
[53] Yeah, because you were an interloper.
[54] Yeah.
[55] Yeah, I think that's what it was.
[56] Yeah, we were sort of established and really rift well with each other and it was organic.
[57] You, you know, were forced into the situation in a way that was just wrong.
[58] Yeah, and I think once I found my voice on how to really stick it to the man, yes.
[59] That's when I really started to feel like there's this three -way energy going on that I, now I really enjoy coming here.
[60] Well, you know, it's funny.
[61] I was you know, saying earlier that joking that you were forced upon us you were not, we're delighted to have you because you're an extraordinary voice in the podcast community which I didn't even know but every time we have people come on the show they're like well I know Gorley from and then they start listing all these you know Fez Weekly and the Magoooooooo report and the Jubjub hour with Winky and Doodoo they start listing all these podcasts Simon McGee takes it home you know incredible list of shows that I didn't even know about The Cuckoo Hour with Gorles, Gorles and Goo Goo.
[62] Just for the record, the Fez one is biweekly.
[63] Okay, biweekly.
[64] All right.
[65] But anyway, you're very well known in that world, a subterranean strange world.
[66] Yeah, if that.
[67] Please.
[68] And I'm not.
[69] You are.
[70] You are.
[71] People know you and they go like, oh my God, it's Gorley.
[72] And I go like, okay, you know, really.
[73] And then they start listing again of the podcasts that you are a part of.
[74] You know, I got a mine and hat.
[75] Come with me with Matt Goreley.
[76] Gorley's Wall of Shame These are sounding better as you keep on.
[77] Hamana homina and doo -do with Gorley and the Gub -Gub report.
[78] My daughter's nicknames.
[79] Yeah.
[80] But anyway, and then they go on and on and on about all the wonderful shows that they've heard you do and I didn't realize how many you've done and how you're different animal voices and there's one where you talk about all kinds of stuff that happened in Roman history.
[81] Oh, you wish.
[82] I do wish, actually.
[83] I'd listen to that.
[84] I like a good history podcast.
[85] But anyway, it's very nice.
[86] I made my bones in podcasting.
[87] What can I say?
[88] I made my bones in podcasting.
[89] It's the saddest sentence ever uttered.
[90] I made my bones in podcasting.
[91] I got in 2011.
[92] Oh, 2005, friend.
[93] I cut my teeth in podcasting when you were barely shaving height.
[94] This reminds me because this reminds me of housing in Los Angeles because I grew up in the Boston area and houses are old.
[95] Yeah.
[96] And so, you know, the house I grew up and was built in 1900.
[97] And that's just standard, you know, that's pretty standard for that area of, you know, right outside Boston.
[98] And then there are houses from the 1800s.
[99] There are houses from the, you know, 1700s around Boston, some from the 1600s.
[100] Full of witches.
[101] Yeah, seriously.
[102] Really, and still, you know, populating the whole area.
[103] So I live in Los Angeles and you buy a house here.
[104] I remember we had some problem with our house.
[105] There was like a leak, a pipe was broken or something from a root, and a guy came, and he was looking, he dug down, and he was looking at it, and he shook his head.
[106] I said, what's a problem?
[107] He went, well, you know, the pipe broke that goes into the house.
[108] And, you know, so that's got to be, we got to get in there and put a new piece of pipe because to see this tree root broke it.
[109] And I went, huh, he said, you see this much?
[110] And he went, well, we see it from houses like this from the mid -2005, 2006.
[111] And he was kind of acting like, you know, when you get a house that was made before Obama's first term, you run into problems like this.
[112] What are you talking about?
[113] They act like, well, you got one of these, you got one of these houses from, you know, from the third season of Gossip Girl.
[114] You got a 2006.
[115] Wow, we don't see many of these anymore.
[116] People out here buy a house that was built in 2011.
[117] and tear it down and build a new house because they're like oh my God you should have seen it when we got it It's a shame It is too bad I know you live in a magical home A gingerbread home No You do It looks like a gingerbread home It's lovely It's lovely And parts of it are made of gingerbread I know No Marzapin Well good improv skills again Grand Cracker No That's your improv No This is not improv No This is you berating me No And I'm forced to defend myself.
[118] Hey, it's the improv team of Conan and Gorley.
[119] And let's get started.
[120] Conan takes the stage.
[121] Hey, everybody.
[122] And, oh, here's my friend here.
[123] No, we're not friends.
[124] I sure love working in this candy factory.
[125] No. Gory, are you okay?
[126] You wish you.
[127] No. All that stuff I was saying about excited to come in here.
[128] It's gone.
[129] Gorely, we sure have a difficult boss here.
[130] Isn't he funny?
[131] Isn't it weird that we have a difficult boss who's half dragon, half ape?
[132] No. Are I also 80?
[133] No. Well, that's how you say no. Did you hear yourself saying no?
[134] I need Sona here.
[135] This is why we need it.
[136] Sona couldn't be here because Sona's on a book tour.
[137] Yeah.
[138] Because that's what happens when you hire an assistant that refuses to do her job.
[139] She writes a book about it.
[140] It's a big hit and she goes on tour.
[141] Welcome to America.
[142] Oh, man. This is fantastic.
[143] I can't believe I got to do this.
[144] Yeah.
[145] Yeah.
[146] I'm sorry.
[147] You are a great improviser.
[148] I'm sure you are.
[149] All right.
[150] Here I am with my comedy partner.
[151] or Matt Gourley, give us a suggestion.
[152] No. Hey, your dad came to see the podcast.
[153] That's his suggestion.
[154] No. I learned it all from him.
[155] No. All right, well, we got to get going.
[156] Let's.
[157] My guest today is a very talented writer and comedian who played Ryan Howard on The Office.
[158] He's now making his feature directorial debut with the new film, Vengeance, which he also wrote and starred in.
[159] A very talented guy.
[160] I'm excited he's here with us today.
[161] B .J. Novak, welcome.
[162] You and I have been eyeing each other warily and show business for years and years, each ready to pounce and attack the other.
[163] And I feel like finally we're here.
[164] Yeah.
[165] I would get five minutes on your show every few years.
[166] So I had time to prepare.
[167] I guess you did too, though.
[168] Yeah.
[169] I would always think, damn it, he's not here long enough.
[170] He's doing a stand -up set on my show.
[171] I can't really take him down now.
[172] I don't have enough time.
[173] And sometimes I would try to talk to you either just before your set or afterwards on the set of the old Conan talk show.
[174] And there was never enough time.
[175] I'd tell you, Sona, like, today's the day I get B .J. Novick and take him down.
[176] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[177] And then you never did.
[178] Yeah.
[179] Everyone's trying to take me down.
[180] A lot of build up.
[181] Nothing ever happened.
[182] And the internet.
[183] His podcast.
[184] I do.
[185] They often come at me at the beginning of the podcast.
[186] It's quite a phenomenon for me. Well, I am very, very happy that you are here.
[187] you have no reason to feel cautious about being my friend because I think you're fantastic, highly talented, and we have so much to talk about.
[188] So I'm glad, very glad you're here.
[189] Now, I will attack you at some point in the podcast.
[190] But I want you to relax and start to think this is going well.
[191] Of course you want me to relax.
[192] Given your strategy.
[193] Yeah.
[194] No, we...
[195] So you just let your guard down.
[196] Did I?
[197] No, no, no. That's your advice to me. Yeah, let your guard down and just relax and bear your throat.
[198] Great.
[199] Bear your throat?
[200] Yeah, it just means show someone your carotid artery.
[201] Oh, okay, okay.
[202] Just put your throat up and then I will tack.
[203] No, we do have something to discuss right off top of the bat, which is we come from neighboring towns, towns that are often thought of as rivals.
[204] I'm from Brookline, Massachusetts, and you are from Newton.
[205] Now, I don't know, maybe Newton doesn't feel this way about Brookline, but when I was a kid, we were sort of told that Newton was our rival.
[206] And when you guys would play us in football, we were supposed to get all worked up about it.
[207] Like, Newton.
[208] What does Newton know?
[209] I never got into it.
[210] It was almost like they were pushing it too hard trying to instruct me to be, have an attitude about Newton.
[211] But when I was on the track team, that's right, you don't just get a body like mine.
[212] When I was on the track team, and I joined the track team because I was speedy and fast.
[213] and I thought, this is great.
[214] I'm going to be a sprinter.
[215] And the first day they told me, you've got the legs of a distance man. You're in the two mile.
[216] And I was miserable.
[217] But I remember going over to Newton North to run track at your fancy new track facility and being kind of instructed, now we're going to Newton North.
[218] Be careful because these guys hate us just like we hate them.
[219] So I was thinking, what?
[220] Where is Newton anyway?
[221] I had no idea.
[222] Did you have a rivalry with us or no?
[223] Well, so there's also the, I don't know how to pronounce this word, is it inter -C -C -9 fighting?
[224] I think it's inter -nestine, maybe.
[225] Yeah, there's the splinter groups.
[226] Yeah.
[227] So we, I went to Newton South.
[228] So we were, our rival was Newton North first.
[229] I see.
[230] And then Brookline is sort of the bigger problem.
[231] Right.
[232] You know, it's very much like a national.
[233] Right.
[234] It's like if you're a Protestant, you hate a Catholic first.
[235] But then when there's time, you're like, those Lutherans.
[236] Yeah.
[237] It all gets.
[238] You can say it, I can't.
[239] Trust me. I just got myself canceled.
[240] No, you get it.
[241] Conan's Lutheran rant was way out of bounds.
[242] Lutherans are calling.
[243] I have to step down.
[244] Step down?
[245] Step down even further.
[246] I thought you meant as a, from your religion, step down.
[247] I didn't know you held office.
[248] Oh, I thought you were saying step down.
[249] What are you up on?
[250] We know how big this podcast network is.
[251] Yes, we read the headlines.
[252] Yeah.
[253] As a hobo, I'm stepping down.
[254] So you grow up in Newton Mass. And we have some things in common, which we come from these neighboring towns.
[255] I think of Newton as a weird town.
[256] I've come to think of it as very weird.
[257] Why is that?
[258] Because it seems, you think of it as very normal.
[259] And the people that come from it, Krasinski was in my high school class, Eli Roth.
[260] Yeah.
[261] Who does, yeah, I mean, some extreme, very nice guy, but does some extreme work.
[262] Louis, C .K. From Newton.
[263] And there is a, you think of yourself as normal, but not in Newton.
[264] There's some weird legends about Newton that I can't get into on the show.
[265] Did Brookline think of itself?
[266] I thought of Brookline as very normal in a cool way, because it's like it is a foot in the Boston.
[267] Yeah, we're kind of almost, we're almost, we're like a part of Boston.
[268] Yeah.
[269] We're on the Boston line.
[270] From my house, you can walk into Boston.
[271] You can walk into Fenway.
[272] Yeah.
[273] That was very cool.
[274] I could walk to Fenway Park in about 20 minutes.
[275] Put your uniform on and jump in.
[276] No joke.
[277] I played infield for the Red Sox in 1978 and 79, and no one cared.
[278] It was just a time when you could just back then.
[279] Most players you don't hear about.
[280] Right.
[281] Not everyone's way at box.
[282] That was a different time.
[283] There was a time in the late 70s when you could go to a Red Sox game, just spend like $5 to get a bleacher seat, and then at any point you could wander onto the field and play.
[284] Yeah.
[285] And if you played pretty well, you were eligible for the All -Star game.
[286] This, was it just a different time.
[287] It was a different time, yeah.
[288] And we'll never get back to that.
[289] I don't know.
[290] I feel baseball's, you know, always in a shaky situation these days.
[291] I'm still a fan, but.
[292] So you grew up and we didn't really know each other.
[293] And you learned to drive in Newton.
[294] Yes.
[295] I went to.
[296] That's the first thing you told me the first time we met.
[297] The first time we met, and I knew that you were from Newton.
[298] You're obsessed with Newton.
[299] I kind of am.
[300] You are.
[301] I'm like, it's a pretty normal town.
[302] but you're like, can I just say, I've always wanted to have another podcast in addition to Conan O 'Brien's a friend, which is Newton talk or just...
[303] I think there should be a documentary about it.
[304] It was going to be talking Newton with Conan O 'Brien, and I keep pitching it to the podcast network and they're not interested.
[305] Newton is like 90 ,000 people.
[306] It's weirdly big for a town that just feels like a very forgettable suburb in some ways.
[307] It's weird.
[308] And Brookline is 800 people and just a little sleepy courthouse in the middle of town.
[309] And they all play for the socks.
[310] We all play for the Red Sox.
[311] We ride donkeys around.
[312] I just like getting misenfranchement out there.
[313] Well, we went to the same college at different times because I'm like 98 years old now and you're a young whippersnapper.
[314] 75, yeah.
[315] But we both attended that university, Harvard University.
[316] But we studied different things.
[317] I studied comedy, talk shows, and podcasts.
[318] What did you study?
[319] I should have done that looking around this room.
[320] I studied Newton and I froze up when you brought it up.
[321] So, yeah.
[322] No, I did.
[323] I tried following your footsteps.
[324] Everyone knew that you wrote for the lampoon, which is why I wanted to do that.
[325] Right.
[326] And I did that.
[327] So that, I did.
[328] And you did it because of Conan O 'Brien.
[329] I did, actually.
[330] You said, like, wow, Conan wrote.
[331] You say that sarcastically, but I did.
[332] It was a very well -known fact.
[333] I always only find out about that much later on.
[334] But I remember reading, and we can get back to me if you want.
[335] No, I don't think so.
[336] Okay, good, perfect.
[337] Right yesterday is Conan O 'Brien.
[338] I mean.
[339] And BJ is interviewing me. I also remember, you know, reading that you wanted your show to have no topical jokes in the monologue at first.
[340] Right, right.
[341] And so that feels to me very much your sense of humor.
[342] Yes.
[343] These evergreen, brilliant, offbeat concepts.
[344] And then you, again, get in a situation where you need, like, President Clinton tonight, like five minutes a night.
[345] But you were great at it.
[346] But my God, what pressure you must have been under.
[347] Tell us about that.
[348] Thank you.
[349] You know, I'm really excited.
[350] And then I'd like to talk about my...
[351] I sound like a guy who's so avoiding.
[352] Like, I have some huge secret.
[353] Listen, we're going to get to your murder.
[354] It's like a first date.
[355] I'm like, don't Google me. Well, I think it's, we might be simpatico this way, but topical humor, if there's a really great joke or really great take on it, obviously I like it, but it was not my wheelhouse and it wasn't the thing that brought me joy.
[356] I always liked it when we did comedy sketches or I could do a remote that was just silly and wasn't talking about that day's news.
[357] And so that's still the thing I like the most.
[358] is just pure 100 % silliness.
[359] I think that is a beautiful thing, is that you're able to, I mean, I've just transitioned abruptly into your work on the office.
[360] I thought it was smooth.
[361] Thank you.
[362] I shouldn't have called attention to it because now it's...
[363] Now, everyone's like, yeah, I don't know.
[364] Well, everyone...
[365] I think it's well known that my former writing partner and really good friend Greg Daniels...
[366] Oh, you consider him a good friend.
[367] No, I'm just kidding.
[368] Yes, he talks about you all time, of course.
[369] For the purpose of this interview, yes.
[370] I'm trying to be funny, too, here.
[371] I'm trying to keep up.
[372] But, yes.
[373] We agreed before the podcast that I would say good friend and that you would act like it was true.
[374] Oh, man. You're better of that kind of joke than I am.
[375] We have not spoken in years.
[376] No, what I love is my son who has, I think, excellent comedy taste in that he doesn't like what I'm doing, but really loves great shows.
[377] I've walked into the room and he's watching the office and he's mouthing along.
[378] He knows it.
[379] He has memorized the office.
[380] There is a music to it, or there must be, that people.
[381] people learn it by watching it again and again, the way you listen to a song, I guess.
[382] And it has no laugh track and no music to it.
[383] So the dialogue, I think, becomes sort of the rhythm of it.
[384] But I learned all my comedy lessons from Greg Daniels being in that room.
[385] And the care, he, I mean, he has these sayings that maybe you have too.
[386] Or I know you guys came up together.
[387] Maybe you developed them together.
[388] But one phrase was, you don't eat your seed corn.
[389] Maybe he said that from The Simpsons.
[390] Like, you can make a joke in which.
[391] it's like a farming term, that you don't sell out a character for a great joke in the moment because you're going to need that character later.
[392] The attention to the people, to the realism, he also, in terms of it being Evergreen, one time someone mentioned a year, and the show was not popular at this point.
[393] And he said, let's try to never mention the year so that it doesn't jar people if they're ever watching it in syndication or we didn't even know about Netflix then, you know.
[394] I learned everything from him.
[395] You know, I can't believe that you never interned for me because...
[396] I turned it down a lot.
[397] No. I know how bad you guys wanted it.
[398] Why didn't you want to work for free?
[399] We need that intern.
[400] No, but...
[401] They say that he's so good at interning.
[402] The list of people from the office who are from Massachusetts.
[403] I didn't know that was an option.
[404] When they were talking about it on set, I felt so left out.
[405] I was like, why did my mom never tell me about this?
[406] I don't know, no, but it's like, you know, like, other kids go to the summer camp and you're like, wait, I didn't know you could do that.
[407] But when I was a kid, like, kids went to concerts.
[408] I'm like, how did you go to a concert?
[409] Like, your mom drove you to the Worcester Centrum and waited in the car.
[410] Oh, my God, the Worcester Centrum.
[411] Yes.
[412] I didn't get it.
[413] These kids got to Nirvana.
[414] When I was like in eighth grade, I was like, you can go.
[415] And so, yeah, I was like, no one told me you could intern at Conan.
[416] Yeah.
[417] And when you think about it, I think half the cast of the office.
[418] Yes.
[419] Interned for me. Correlle interned at the office.
[420] At all at Conan.
[421] Damn it.
[422] He also had to intern, he also had to intern at the office when he first got, that's how low down he was.
[423] He worked his way up.
[424] All right, you can, you can, you can play Michael, but you also have to intern for the first year.
[425] You have to get Dwight coffee.
[426] So weird.
[427] And it worked against the character prep, too.
[428] It was not the right dynamic.
[429] So, but you must have, I mean, I know you're friends with a lot of the people that interned for us.
[430] What was the list of people that interned for us?
[431] Angela Kinsey, Mindy Kaling.
[432] It's crazy.
[433] John Krasinski.
[434] Ellie Kemper.
[435] Yeah.
[436] Well, I mean, am I leaving anyone at all?
[437] I think that's it.
[438] Yeah.
[439] Yeah.
[440] I think some are going to end up interning for us.
[441] Yeah.
[442] Yeah.
[443] There's a long road.
[444] I think Krasinski, when he gets his comeuppance, we'll be here, getting me coffee again.
[445] Yep.
[446] Yeah.
[447] I loved it the last time I saw Krasinski.
[448] I think he had a bodyguard.
[449] And I'm thinking, you used to get me coffee.
[450] and now there's someone here to protect you from me. I don't blame him.
[451] I don't blame him either.
[452] I'm a very violent man. Yeah, he's a lot of enemies.
[453] I've always heard that Mindy Kaling does this thing that I want to ask you about, which is something that is near and dear to my heart.
[454] I'll confirm any rumor about her.
[455] Making up lies that don't really exist for any reason, just making up a very random lie.
[456] Yeah.
[457] And it's kind of a way of pranking people, but it's something that's always fascinated me. I love that as well, and I'm a big believer in that.
[458] But can you give me examples?
[459] Is it true, first of all, that she does to do that?
[460] Now and then, she hasn't done it in a while, I hope.
[461] She told me she really needed money.
[462] Yeah.
[463] And I gave her $100 ,000.
[464] That's how she's so rich.
[465] She started giggling.
[466] Yeah.
[467] She told that to Warner Brothers.
[468] I'm like, all right, sure, whatever you need.
[469] She once on the office told me that there was a female director that had done an episode of one of my, scripts.
[470] And I didn't especially like how the direction went, not a huge deal.
[471] But Mindy said that she had used to date Greg.
[472] The director used to date Greg.
[473] And also, we're at like 24.
[474] So I, everyone looked like a grown -up to me. This woman was way, like 20 years older than Greg.
[475] I was like, oh, okay, all right.
[476] And so then Greg was like, what did you think of her as a director?
[477] And I was like, yeah, she was good.
[478] And so he hired her back.
[479] But I should have said, like, Like, I'm not my favorite director.
[480] And then later I told him, like, you used to date her, right?
[481] And he was like, what are you talking about?
[482] She's like six.
[483] No. How would I have, anyway.
[484] That's incredible.
[485] Okay, this is, when someone lies and the lie doesn't have a point.
[486] Yes.
[487] And then they act like they got you.
[488] She never acted like she got me. It was just a private joke, which is even more pure.
[489] I have to admire the comedian that doesn't need an audience.
[490] Just her and God.
[491] Okay.
[492] I don't know what you're talking about.
[493] A comedian doesn't have an audience.
[494] You've got a school.
[495] That feels like a Fellini movie.
[496] No, I just know that I've been around people sometimes who say, yeah, on my way in today, a pebble, you know, shot up from the road and cracked my windshield.
[497] They've got to get it fixed.
[498] And I'll be like, huh, that's too bad.
[499] And they'll be like, no, it didn't.
[500] But that's not.
[501] Fuck you.
[502] Wait a minute.
[503] That's a pathological.
[504] Well, Sony, you've done that to me plenty of times, always with a pebble.
[505] I'm sorry, I love that pebble bit.
[506] And you fall for it every single time.
[507] You fall for it every single time.
[508] I mean, the key to it, the pro.
[509] Kahn is that it's so mundane, but there's also no payoff.
[510] And people think who would lie about such a thing?
[511] Right.
[512] Huge waste of time.
[513] You did stand -up first?
[514] Is that right?
[515] You started doing stand -up?
[516] I wrote for Bob Sagitt, my good friend.
[517] He was my good friend.
[518] I wrote for his show called Raising Dad.
[519] It was my first.
[520] And it was a multicam.
[521] And I started doing stand -up toward the end of that.
[522] because I didn't really like that.
[523] And the people I did admire, like Bob Sagitt would drive up in a Mercedes with his sunglasses, crack a bunch of bad jokes in the writer's room.
[524] Everyone would kiss his ass and crack up.
[525] He was a very funny guy, but not in those moments.
[526] And then he'd zoom off.
[527] And I was like, well, that's the job I want.
[528] Like, how do you get that?
[529] And Jonathan Katz had created the show, and he was at home in Boston, and he would, like, phone in once a week.
[530] And, you know, a really revered figure, also a friend.
[531] And I thought, well, that's what I want to do.
[532] And then the other writers in the room would talk about being in a bar and Milwaukee, you know, bombing.
[533] And to me, being from Newton, as we talked about, that was very glamorous and exciting to me, bombing in a bar in Milwaukee because it's such a sheltered environment.
[534] I hadn't been anywhere.
[535] That didn't sound like a complaint to me. So I started doing it as that show started, you know, ending.
[536] So you worked for Bob Saget, and you guys remained friends, right?
[537] Friendly.
[538] Yeah.
[539] And he helped me out.
[540] He got me some stage time.
[541] I opened for him a lot.
[542] He got me out of the laugh factory.
[543] I opened for him in Vegas.
[544] Yeah.
[545] Many nice things have been said about Bob as they should be because he was genuinely very, very sweet and supportive.
[546] He was an incredible person and a funny person.
[547] His stand -up wasn't that funny, in my opinion.
[548] But he was just funny.
[549] He was comedy.
[550] And at his memorial, it's the only time I ever.
[551] was ambitious to be a good person.
[552] I've always thought I'm ambitious in my career.
[553] I'm ambitious to make great comedy.
[554] I'm a perfectionist about everything I write.
[555] And I try to be a good person too.
[556] And I feel bad if I think I was kind of a jerk, but only as sort of an extra, oh, also be as good a person as you can.
[557] At his memorial, the way people talked about him and myself included, the way people talked about him and remembered him.
[558] And it was some of the greatest stand -ups in the world, as well as just friends and family.
[559] I got that fire in me that made me feel when I die, I want people to have felt that way about me. I want to have given that kind of love and feeling.
[560] And that's the level that he gave that I was jealous and fired up to be a good person with love in my life.
[561] I have felt that before memorials.
[562] There are times where I'm in a memorial and a person doesn't seem that great.
[563] I'm there and I'm thinking, I win, you know.
[564] First of all, this person, this person died.
[565] This person died.
[566] and I'm still alive.
[567] Yeah.
[568] But I'm hearing about what they did and what kind of person they were and I think, I got that beat.
[569] And I've made the mistake of telling that to the widow a couple of times.
[570] Well, there's been a lot of comedy deaths of that generation and a lot of them are complicated people.
[571] Everyone's a complicated person.
[572] You're right.
[573] There have been a lot of people that have passed in the last year, almost to an eerie degree.
[574] Yeah, and they all were like in the same circle.
[575] Yeah.
[576] People who knew Jeff Ross.
[577] Comedian Jeff Ross, of course, as you know him, the Roastmaster General.
[578] Yes.
[579] Many people think he's behind, because he moves up in the rankings every time someone goes.
[580] Absolutely.
[581] And seems to profit from these deaths.
[582] Anyway, just putting that out there.
[583] Yes.
[584] He might be killing our favorite comedians, Jeff Ross, murderer.
[585] Okay, I don't think that's actionable.
[586] No. Right?
[587] I think legally I'm in the clear.
[588] Yeah.
[589] I just accused him of murdering most of the other comedians that have died this year.
[590] Yeah.
[591] Yeah.
[592] I think we're in good shape.
[593] And you did it knowing it was false and with the intention to harm him.
[594] To harm him and...
[595] And I don't think that's defamation, but...
[596] I don't...
[597] Listen, I'm not a lawyer.
[598] I am not a lawyer.
[599] It's either not defamation or exactly.
[600] Exactly what defamation is.
[601] Yeah.
[602] Now, you had this period of time where you were working on the TV show punked.
[603] Yes.
[604] And I'm fascinated by this.
[605] That was my first on -camera job and that was just still my favorite job I've ever had.
[606] And why was it your favorite job?
[607] Because I love pranks.
[608] I've always loved pranks.
[609] That's my version of, you know, Mindy lies, I actually do the work, not judging.
[610] Right, she can just say, oh, that person owns Flemish Armor, but he doesn't.
[611] I love pranks.
[612] And here was a job where a professional team set up the prank for you.
[613] And you just knock the pins down.
[614] It was unbelievable.
[615] And Ashton Coucher, you know, this was my, I was 23, 24.
[616] I had only been in the writer's room.
[617] I'd started doing stand -up a couple years ago.
[618] I suddenly got some heat as a stand -up.
[619] I killed my audition.
[620] and I'm here with Ashton Coucher who loomed so large, especially at that moment.
[621] Now he's sort of an icon that has graduated.
[622] He's been around forever, but he was just bursting.
[623] Like cover People magazine every week.
[624] So cool.
[625] And I was like this comedy writer still wearing the kind of pleaded cackies that you wear when you grow up in Boston.
[626] And he was like in my earpiece.
[627] I'm wearing those right now, you asshole.
[628] What to say to these pop stars that would freak them out.
[629] I mean, it was as someone who loved pranks, who was a dream come true.
[630] Now, your job as a performer was to play the reality of the prank.
[631] Yeah.
[632] It was great acting training because you have to be convincing and funny and you get one take.
[633] Yeah, and you cannot indicate the joke, which is everyone knows who's worked in comedy.
[634] Actually, they don't know it, but they should know it.
[635] Don't indicate the joke.
[636] It ruins it when you're indicating that something funny is happening.
[637] And since I've directed comedy, a lot of people show up great actors, great dramatic actor show up ready to do comedy.
[638] And they don't realize that by that philosophy that we both subscribe to, no, no, no, play the drama.
[639] Get the comedy deep down.
[640] But you play that reality.
[641] If as soon as you play the comedy, it's not funny.
[642] Yeah.
[643] Well, I think what Steve Carell did so brilliantly was he's a brilliant actor.
[644] Yes.
[645] And he played every moment with complete honesty as Michael Scott.
[646] He could sell, you could write him the most insane thing for a human being that no human being grills his foot on a George Foreman grill because he wants to wake up to the smell of bacon and then tells his office to treat him as a handicapped person.
[647] But when he performs that, you buy it.
[648] You see how a human being could do that.
[649] And he's not rubbing his hands before the scene to say, how do I make this funny?
[650] I think he is deep down, I think he is a writer brain that's coming up with the funny things to say.
[651] But then his actor heart is, you know, playing the drama of this human being and this terrible situation in that character's mind.
[652] When you were doing these pranks on punked, was there ever a moment where, because you can't break?
[653] I mean, you know, you're not supposed to break in sketches, but people do.
[654] But if you're part of a prank and you're pretending to be someone who, you know, is a barista or someone who's working the counter at a restaurant, do you know what I mean?
[655] And you've got to play that reality.
[656] you can't start giggling or the entire thing is ruined.
[657] Was that ever a problem?
[658] Yeah, I almost never.
[659] I'm actually, I think I'm a little too serious when I do comedy.
[660] I think that if you watch the office bloopers, I'm almost never breaking.
[661] And I wish I had brought myself to the level of being about to break a lot because I do think a lot of great comedy comes at that teetering edge.
[662] But I didn't generally have a problem with that, but I did watch something where I saw my face, just bite my cheek to not break.
[663] And there was one outrageous.
[664] I mean, my mom hated punked.
[665] There was one outrageous one where Rachel Lee Cook was the actor.
[666] And she, so they always find like their vulnerability or their obsession.
[667] So she and Jonathan Tucker, who is a friend of mine now, was the accomplice.
[668] So he brought her to a restaurant.
[669] She volunteered with the elderly.
[670] And we got a stuntman to be the waiter, like a forgetful waiter that kept messing up her order.
[671] And I was an asshole manager of the restaurant that was abusive to this elderly waiter.
[672] and screamed at him for messing up the order.
[673] And then eventually started throwing him against the wall because he's a stunt guy.
[674] Sure, yeah.
[675] It's so violent.
[676] Yeah, watching that, I laugh now because I can't believe that we would do such a thing.
[677] First of all, you just described my favorite day ever.
[678] It would be a joy for me. To beat the elderly.
[679] Well, to beat up people, it's so funny because.
[680] But to do these things and have to, convince someone it's real.
[681] Yes, it's real.
[682] What you were saying, the acting training is this is amazing because you have to be funny enough to, you're improvising because you're making up the stuff.
[683] You have to be completely convincing.
[684] So the other person in the scene thinks this is the worst day of their life.
[685] And it's a high wire act because you've one take.
[686] We, I'm not a natural prankster.
[687] I don't think that's something that I was built for.
[688] I worry a lot that someone will get hurt or upset.
[689] Apparently was not my problem.
[690] I just do not have that.
[691] But I understand, because I grew up with brothers, I've always been someone who likes to roughhoused, who's a term probably no one uses anymore, because it's just a cute way of saying physical abuse.
[692] But I loved roughhousing, still love rough housing.
[693] And so the idea of, yeah, I will wrestle you before this is over, and you'll be very uncomfortable.
[694] Rain Wilson always wanted to wrestle with me during the office.
[695] I understand that.
[696] No. I look easy to beat.
[697] I think someone hasn't wrestled a while.
[698] I was like, why don't I start with you and then move on to Krasinski's bodyguard?
[699] I want to compliment you because one of my favorite attributes that people have is when they have an interesting career that has different phases and they try different things.
[700] And I think you are a bit of a shapeshifter, meaning I think you've done terrific work as a stand -up.
[701] and as a writer and as an actor.
[702] And I know that you've written terrific books.
[703] And I just think you refuse to be pigeonholed, which I think is a great, great attribute.
[704] I would love to be pigeonholed, actually.
[705] I wish, and I envy the people that are very famous for doing one iconic thing amazingly.
[706] It's just so funny, the grass is always greener, I guess, I don't, yeah, I feel scattered.
[707] Oh, really?
[708] I have.
[709] I've come to think, oh, I am me, and that's cool.
[710] But for most of the time, I'm like, what is wrong with me that I keep needing to do these random -house things?
[711] Well, clearly, I was wrong.
[712] There's something very wrong with you.
[713] I think that's what we've come to.
[714] Yeah.
[715] No, I don't, I don't, but I think it's very, I mean, I think it's.
[716] Like you master something.
[717] Like you work so hard to learn something.
[718] And then finally, you can really do it.
[719] And I'm like, oh, let's try this.
[720] You're talking me out of admiring you.
[721] I've admired you because you're, I'm, I'm coming around.
[722] I'm coming around to who I am.
[723] Having an interesting and varied career, I don't know what's better than that.
[724] And getting to almost be like ambidextrous about what it is you're working on or what you're doing at any one point.
[725] You know?
[726] I mean, you show up in one of my, I have to say, one of my favorite movies of the last 15 years or decade is...
[727] Smurfs, too.
[728] Smurfs too.
[729] And the fact that you also went to Smurst 2, please tell me you weren't in Smurfs 2.
[730] I have one line in Smurfs 2.
[731] Yeah, it was edited out.
[732] Oh, you saw it.
[733] Yeah.
[734] You saw it for me. I saw it in the theater and then I had it edited out for every other show.
[735] That's the kind of power I have in the business.
[736] Whoa, my muffins, didn't do it for you?
[737] No, Inglorious Bastards.
[738] When you showed up in Inglorious Bastards, I was so happy for you.
[739] I was happy as a fan, but I was just happy for you.
[740] I won a contest, yeah.
[741] No, no, you were terrific.
[742] You were great.
[743] Yeah, no, I mean, as a life experience, that is one of the things I, if I woke up tomorrow and I was like, this whole thing had been a dream, I'd be like, yeah, that was weird.
[744] How did I ever get to do something like that?
[745] To have a scene, this great scene with, I mean, I think Hans Landa is one of the most compelling characters in a movie.
[746] Yeah, ever.
[747] Ever, because he's an absolutely terrible person who's charming.
[748] And he loves his job, and the love is bursting through his performance.
[749] That's the secret weapon, I think.
[750] Yeah, Christoph Waltz, as Hans Landa, I love, and he enjoys the milky drinks.
[751] the opening scene when he's in the French farmhouse and he drinks the milk.
[752] God, he loves that milk.
[753] And he really does love his job.
[754] And he's terrible.
[755] He is a Nazi who is, I mean, really one of the most iconic, terrible people you can imagine in a film.
[756] And yet, boy, does he love the strudel that they serve and the restaurant.
[757] And you've got to wait for the whipped cream.
[758] And the fact that you have that you and Brad Pitt have those scenes with him.
[759] Yeah.
[760] where he's interrogating you.
[761] I mean, I don't even, I can't imagine what that must have been like.
[762] And being around Tarantino alone, but yeah, I would be picked up in a van, you know, lived in Berlin, and a van would pick up, I was first and then Christoph was second.
[763] And the two of us would be vanned for 45 minutes together to the set where Brad Pitt would be.
[764] And, you know, he would make, I don't know if I can still do the voice, but he would make these, you know, he would recommend book.
[765] He was a very erudite guy.
[766] Yeah.
[767] Which is scary when you've seen the movie.
[768] I was like, have you read this book on short stories?
[769] You would love it, BJ.
[770] You know what I'm like, uh -huh, uh -huh.
[771] And because he was a wonderful guy, but we would, and so that, I mean, that alone, that experience.
[772] Then you get there and it's Brad Pitt in a white tuxedo.
[773] How's it going, guys?
[774] Like, it was just a dream, an absolute dream.
[775] Yeah, I, and, and, I mean, I think I've watched that movie probably 600 times, but you have a two shot.
[776] It's the last shot of the movie, which is great.
[777] Yeah, I was at Universal Studios for the Halloween Horror Nights, which I go every year.
[778] I love that thing.
[779] And they were playing sort of braggy universal highlight reel of like iconic moments.
[780] And that was in it.
[781] That was in their reel of like great universal pictures moments.
[782] And still you're not satisfied with your career.
[783] I didn't say that.
[784] You son of a bitch.
[785] You bastard.
[786] As it were.
[787] I want to talk to you about this new dark comedy you've done Vengeance, which you wrote and directed.
[788] I mean, first of all, I've never directed anything.
[789] I don't even know.
[790] I don't know what directing involves.
[791] I honestly don't.
[792] I would get obsessed with getting the jobpers, like the end of the, you know, the iconic director.
[793] Those weird pants?
[794] Those weird pants and the writing crop.
[795] And I would want a, I would want a 1920s bullhorn.
[796] I've got...
[797] Quiet everybody, quiet.
[798] Now let's go.
[799] I've got some amazing advice about directing before I directed.
[800] And the best piece of advice was, something that will both sort of reassure you and challenge you, if you ever wonder, could I direct?
[801] It was, which the answer is you can.
[802] But Al Ruddy, who produced The Godfather, a good friend of mine is his daughter.
[803] And I told Al I was going to direct, and he said, you only need to know two things to direct, what you want and how to get it.
[804] Oh, snap.
[805] I mean, and that's a hundred percent true.
[806] And then another director, Lee Wannell.
[807] That's everything, by the way.
[808] It is everything.
[809] Yeah, that's not fair.
[810] It is everything.
[811] No, but think about it.
[812] It's everything.
[813] want and how to get it.
[814] Yes, but both of those are hard to know.
[815] You often don't know what you want.
[816] And there are directors who don't know what they want, and there are people in relationships who don't know what they want.
[817] It's actually harder to know what you want than how to get it.
[818] Now, plenty of people know what they want.
[819] They don't know how to get it.
[820] But I think people like you and I, who are very logical people, often it's especially, the first part is the harder part.
[821] So, vengeance, you must have been working on this for a while because you direct this, you star in it.
[822] Because it looks hopelessly out of date.
[823] It looks like it was made in the 40s.
[824] Yeah, it's really a commentary on Obama's first term.
[825] How did this project come to be?
[826] Was this your concept?
[827] Yeah, I had this idea.
[828] The story is about a podcaster, an aspiring podcaster, which I find especially pathetic.
[829] Yeah.
[830] If only I could get a microphone.
[831] Yes, yes.
[832] He's a journalist and not an unsuccessful.
[833] one.
[834] But he wants to be sort of a voice.
[835] And Issa Ray is this producer that he knows.
[836] He really wants to get a show on her network.
[837] He's, you know, has a shallow life, dating a bunch of people.
[838] He's a guy who thinks he's cool and it's kind of a little sad.
[839] And he gets a call in the middle of the night from this voice with a deep Texan accent.
[840] It says, your girlfriend is dead.
[841] And he's more surprised by girlfriend than dead.
[842] And he goes down to the funeral and the family apparently thought he was really close to them.
[843] And then the brother, played by Boyd Holbrook, feels they bonded a lot, wants him to help avenge her death.
[844] And that's when the dark comedy turns, in a way, darker because he thinks, I'm going to make a podcast about why these people want revenge, about what's the meaning of vengeance.
[845] And then eventually he gets caught up in that story.
[846] So it is sort of a, it's a bit of a fish -out -of -water culture clash movie, but it's also, you know, kind of a Western, kind of a vengeance movie.
[847] Obviously, we've talked about, we both come from these goofy towns in Massachusetts.
[848] By the way, I used to say I'm from Boston until I saw Wahlbergers.
[849] I've seen every episode of Walburgers.
[850] And I'm like, oh my God, I am not from Boston.
[851] Like, if I ever ran into any, and Mark Wahlberg was like, oh, you're from Boston?
[852] What part?
[853] And I'd be like, oh, well, you know the thing is, Mark.
[854] I was like, this is the most exotic place I've ever seen.
[855] That's Boston.
[856] So I'm from Massachusetts for sure.
[857] Exactly.
[858] I'm from Massachusetts as well.
[859] Wallburgers is, I have seen every, it is a fascinating show.
[860] Anyway.
[861] Is it still out there?
[862] No, but you can find it.
[863] All right.
[864] It's like Nathan for you.
[865] It's going to build.
[866] If you take one thing away from this episode, it's watch Walburgers.
[867] So the thing about Walburgers.
[868] Anyway.
[869] But yes, Alma, the mom, thinks Donnie Wahlberg is like the biggest star in the world.
[870] And the Mark is still trying to ride his coattails.
[871] Yeah.
[872] And like, there's no convincing Alma.
[873] Like, and Mark has this huge ship on his shoulder.
[874] He's so competitive.
[875] He's the youngest of, I think, nine or 11.
[876] And he's always trying to best his brother.
[877] Still on the show.
[878] He sets up these whole episodes to show how he can kick his brother's ass and golf.
[879] And it's like, you're Mark Wahlberg, but he's just, he won't stop.
[880] Like, the show doesn't know what it's really about.
[881] They think it's about a restaurant.
[882] But it's about these unbelievable family dynamics and what powers a phenomenon like Mark Warburg.
[883] But yes, I'm from Newton.
[884] It's always about the hamburger restaurant.
[885] I'm here to plug.
[886] That's your message in line.
[887] I'm here to plug a canceled A &E show, is my point.
[888] Donnie's bigger for me. Yeah?
[889] Because I'm a big NKOTB fan.
[890] So, yeah, he's where it's at.
[891] Mark is never going to build up to that.
[892] He's still an underwear model.
[893] Yeah.
[894] So my parents, you know, they've had the same house in Brooklyn that I, you know, basically they took me home as a baby.
[895] It's just the house that I've been in my whole life.
[896] My parents have been there and all my brothers and sisters.
[897] And when new kids on the block was a huge phenomenon in the 80s, late 80s.
[898] Yeah, late 80s.
[899] New kids to us is like what Billy Joel is if you're from like Long Island.
[900] For real.
[901] There's stories.
[902] There's legends.
[903] No, for real.
[904] So anyway, Donnie and I think two of them bought a house in Brookline, in this nice part of Brookline, and they had this house, and they live there, and girls used to hang around outside the house to try and go see new kids on the block.
[905] And when I got my late night show, 93, there's still a big deal.
[906] Yeah.
[907] A year or two goes by or three.
[908] I was always kind of wondering, huh, they've got people hanging around outside their house?
[909] When are people going to start hanging around my parents' house?
[910] Oh, you thought that was going to happen.
[911] I thought it was going to happen.
[912] And then once, once, there was some, like...
[913] So you're hanging around outside, to see who comes by?
[914] There were two teenagers hang outside our house, and my parents told me, there's some people here that want to come to say hi to you?
[915] And I went, well, I guess, you know.
[916] And I went out, and they said, yeah, we were hanging outside the new kids on the board.
[917] block house for a long time and they didn't come out so we got really bored and came over here you got their leftover and they literally like oh we didn't even need you to come out well I'm here you want some pictures you want some pictures no we're good do you know how we could get into the new kids house I really don't but I could take you guys out to lunch no we've eaten and we're lactose intolerant oh do you want to come back later No, we're good.
[918] Conan invite them in.
[919] They don't want to come in.
[920] They want to hang around the new kids on the blockhouse.
[921] In 99.
[922] In 99.
[923] Yeah.
[924] Anyway, that's my story and tells you where I'm coming from.
[925] But how do people see vengeance?
[926] In theaters, July 29th.
[927] I just want to make sure we get the date because I don't have a date here, but I want to make sure people know that July 29th they can go and see vengeance.
[928] I have to say, I think you are to be commended.
[929] Oh, and you know, Ashton is in Vengeance, so it's like Ashton Coucher.
[930] So it's like this punked.
[931] And there was a headline that said, B .J. Novak and Ashton Coucher didn't punk anyone on their vengeance.
[932] I was like, is like, there's some punked fan that is just like, what the fuck?
[933] Yeah, that's one of those headlines that's not helping you.
[934] Because you don't need that.
[935] It made me feel so, like, again, it felt like some punked fan had been waiting for this.
[936] Right.
[937] And, like, also, you've been, like, any junket, any press interview about any project, TV show, movie you work on.
[938] Everyone, and it's George Clooney is to blame for this.
[939] Everyone's always like, did you guys prank each other on set?
[940] Pranks are so hard to come up with.
[941] And it's like, no, I didn't come up with any brilliant pranks on set.
[942] Like, again, Clooney, I bow down.
[943] But like, now they all think they're going to get these amazing stories and they don't.
[944] But like, if anyone should have had some pranks, it would have been us.
[945] I'm like, we were shooting during COVID.
[946] Like, leave us alone.
[947] I know.
[948] It's hard enough.
[949] And then, and also all the pranks that I would think of would get someone hurt oh you know they'd be things like i switched her lemonade with pure ammonia oh Jesus Christ you did what you just told us about a brilliant prank burned her throat I know but I didn't think of it I'm just saying I my my writer's thought of that one I just don't have a prank mindset I don't either I don't know how if I when we were in camp we tried to like do that kind of stuff but it was always like surround wrap the toilet that the pee goes back off that is a good one But you can see the saran wrap.
[950] Oh, I've never done it.
[951] I just always thought.
[952] And then there's also put the pepper inside a little bit of napkin in the salt shaker and vice versa.
[953] Those are pretty harmless.
[954] I'd like to.
[955] Not brilliant.
[956] I'd like to work in an OR and prank, the surgeon.
[957] Like put saran wrap over the open wound.
[958] So when he goes to section it, it hits the saran wrap.
[959] You just want to kill people.
[960] Yeah, this is how the cyanide Tylenol thing started.
[961] It's like, you know it would be hilarious.
[962] It was a prank.
[963] They think it's going to solve it.
[964] It does, but not in the way they think.
[965] Mr. O 'Brien, this court would like to know why you thought it was a prank to replace the brake pads on his motorcycle with pieces of brie.
[966] Your Honor, I have one question.
[967] Did you laugh?
[968] You got to admit, when you found out after he was dead that he had brie for brake pads, did you laugh?
[969] I did.
[970] We find Conan O 'Brien innocent.
[971] That should be a thing that if you make the judge laugh, You're immediately, a mistrial is declared and you're set free.
[972] Yeah, I love that.
[973] We would do well with that.
[974] Comedians would lobby for that.
[975] We would just be killing people left and right and they'd keep calling us into court.
[976] Melaney's like a serial killer.
[977] Like, it's a way to flex.
[978] It's like, you know he killed 14.
[979] He's getting off.
[980] This is your 15th appearance before this judge.
[981] Would you like to say anything before a sentencing?
[982] Yes, I would.
[983] You ever notice?
[984] And then.
[985] Yeah, I'm going to talk about the salt and pepper diner.
[986] It's like, case dismissed.
[987] Case dismissed.
[988] You're free to murder some more, Mr. Mullaney.
[989] Well, I think...
[990] Can't wait to see you back here.
[991] I don't know.
[992] I think you have the cat by the ass, as no one has ever said.
[993] That's from your focus group.
[994] Yeah.
[995] No, I think you're, I mean, you're writing, you're directing, you're acting.
[996] The world is your oyster.
[997] What does that mean, though?
[998] The world is your oyster is a real one.
[999] I know, but what does it mean?
[1000] Just, does any, guys, What does it mean?
[1001] You open the oyster and then there's the pearl.
[1002] No, no, no, no. He's asking, oh, are you asking what is, what an, what does it mean?
[1003] The world is your oyster actually mean?
[1004] Yes.
[1005] What does it mean?
[1006] Why is it good?
[1007] The world's your oyster.
[1008] I think back when people prized oysters.
[1009] I know the feeling, the whole world isn't, it's a heart, it's, I mean.
[1010] The world's your oyster.
[1011] I have another question, my final question in my interview of you.
[1012] What is or are gangbusters?
[1013] Because.
[1014] We're going gangbusters.
[1015] Or you're played like gang busters.
[1016] But is it like from prohibition that like gangbusters would come in and they'd like they'd set it all on fire?
[1017] Like, wow, that was a show.
[1018] I don't think so.
[1019] Everybody died.
[1020] I, first of all, I'm going to go back to my initial compliment.
[1021] You are a very talented fellow.
[1022] People like and respect you.
[1023] You're doing great work.
[1024] You are a talent and you're finding new ways to express yourself.
[1025] I can't think of a better compliment for someone.
[1026] I think that's true.
[1027] I'm being sincere for a second.
[1028] I think that's all true.
[1029] And I know that you were wishing that you could be pigeonholed, but I'm glad that you're not.
[1030] Well, thank you.
[1031] I have circled you for years.
[1032] I love being on your show.
[1033] And I am happy as a clam.
[1034] Okay.
[1035] Well, what do you mean?
[1036] Now we're screwed.
[1037] We're screwed.
[1038] The world.
[1039] Yes.
[1040] As happy as a clam.
[1041] This is a special day.
[1042] We have a surprise.
[1043] for our listeners.
[1044] My wife, Liza, is here in studio.
[1045] Little applause, please.
[1046] You sound like little church mics.
[1047] And Liza's here because she's been working on a project that I love this project.
[1048] And people say, well, you're biased.
[1049] But I'm, make it clear, I am not a fan of my wife.
[1050] Oh, okay.
[1051] Yeah.
[1052] Well, we are.
[1053] I know.
[1054] Everyone else is.
[1055] Everyone I know.
[1056] Huge, huge fans.
[1057] As someone loves to say, you're only, the only, the only, Only, what, your favorite?
[1058] My favorite thing about you is Liza.
[1059] Yes, there you go.
[1060] Yeah, yeah.
[1061] And that's the sentiment that I get from most people, as they say, you're annoying, but we love your wife.
[1062] I'm like, okay.
[1063] Fills you with rage.
[1064] Fills me with rage because it's my parents that are saying it.
[1065] But, Liza, welcome, first of all, to our little studio.
[1066] Thanks.
[1067] Yeah.
[1068] Nice to be here.
[1069] It's nice to have you.
[1070] Not at all weird.
[1071] Yeah, not at all.
[1072] I just love that we're not, we can't shout at each other because, you know, there's company here.
[1073] Give us a minute.
[1074] Give us eight seconds.
[1075] Zona, I think we should leave.
[1076] No, you, Liza, you're here today because you've been working on something that I really love and I'm excited about it and very proud as your goofy partner in life that you have made this really cool podcast that we're going to share with people called Significant Others.
[1077] That's right.
[1078] I'm so afraid to make a mistake.
[1079] Why?
[1080] You got this, buddy.
[1081] What's that?
[1082] You got this.
[1083] Well, because, you know, later on I might hear about it.
[1084] Likewise.
[1085] Yeah, exactly.
[1086] We're both on absolute.
[1087] Yeah, best behavior.
[1088] I know.
[1089] This is so fun.
[1090] Yeah.
[1091] Use your eye statements.
[1092] Always say I feel.
[1093] Don't accuse anybody of anything.
[1094] Hug a pillow if you need to.
[1095] There's water.
[1096] And treats.
[1097] Okay.
[1098] Well, I think that you've made this very much.
[1099] very cool nonfiction podcast.
[1100] My favorite podcasts often are that I listen to because I don't listen to this one.
[1101] Not a fan of mine, but I love any podcast where I can learn something, whether it's history or literature.
[1102] And you came up with a very cool idea, which I will throw to you.
[1103] So you can explain what significance others is all about.
[1104] Thank you.
[1105] I'll see if I can.
[1106] It's hard to describe it.
[1107] Basically is about sort of looking at people who are just outside the spot.
[1108] of history, essentially.
[1109] So I've always been really interested, even before I was married to Conan, about what it was like for people who were married to, you know, the people we read about in history books.
[1110] So, you know, what was it really like to date and be married to President Lincoln?
[1111] For example, that's sort of the genesis of it.
[1112] And as I started collecting more and more of them and asking people, is this anything that anyone else would be interested in besides me, Conan was one of the first people to say, absolutely, I would absolutely listened to that, which was, I mean, if you hadn't done that, I don't know if I would have pursued any of this.
[1113] So either thank you or it's your fault.
[1114] It's my fault.
[1115] It's my fault.
[1116] We'll see.
[1117] You cover all these great people and things that I didn't know because I knew about, obviously, I think I knew somewhat about Gandhi.
[1118] I certainly knew about Lincoln.
[1119] I thought I knew about Virginia Woolf.
[1120] And then you find out about these other people in their lives that were pivotal, not always for good, which is fascinating.
[1121] This is not the story every time of someone who is saving the day in any way, a secret hero.
[1122] It's both.
[1123] They help and they don't help and they influence the whole game as everyone does.
[1124] No one is an island.
[1125] You've been my first reader of the scripts often and first listener to the scratch tracks and you're a very good editor.
[1126] That's nice.
[1127] I know.
[1128] I know.
[1129] This is like so, but you guys are like, this is all so civilized.
[1130] I want to know about the bad stuff.
[1131] Is there murder?
[1132] Oh, in the, in the podcast?
[1133] Yeah.
[1134] Oh, I thought you meant in our lives.
[1135] Oh, is there murder in your life?
[1136] I don't help out a lot.
[1137] I feel very entitled when it comes to like cleaning up the kitchen.
[1138] I've gotten a little better.
[1139] You're much better.
[1140] Much better than I used to be.
[1141] But it is.
[1142] I used to say, well, I'm done.
[1143] And now let others handle things was my declaration at the end of every meal.
[1144] Now the dishes end up.
[1145] near the dishwasher.
[1146] Still not in it.
[1147] They're moving closer.
[1148] Still not in it, but near it.
[1149] They're moving closer.
[1150] They're moving so much closer.
[1151] Progress.
[1152] For example, Gandhi is someone who, I mean, I just, I don't even think of Gandhi as being in a relationship because he's been, he's become such this holy revered figure that he's almost, you know, beyond that.
[1153] Godlike.
[1154] And then you have this great show that you did about, am I saying it correctly, Kasturba?
[1155] I believe so.
[1156] I can't tell how to Americanize it exactly, and I don't want to sound like I'm trying to do a bad accent.
[1157] So I say Casturba.
[1158] I may also say some other random pronunciations.
[1159] Eduardo's smiling because he's one who's been trying to manage all the different variations that I randomly.
[1160] So Eduardo, you are always in the room when these are being recorded, are you not?
[1161] Oftentimes, yes.
[1162] Okay, because Liza comes home crying sometimes.
[1163] Oh, no. And she's, yeah.
[1164] No, no. She's saying, why couldn't I have married that man?
[1165] Oh, right, right.
[1166] Now that's a man. I bet his dishes get all the way into the dishwasher.
[1167] That's right.
[1168] Bar is so low.
[1169] Like a pretty low bar.
[1170] So low.
[1171] So, and this is the other thing, too, that I really like about it, which is I know some people can feel, well, this might be too highfalutin for me. And it really isn't.
[1172] It's storytelling.
[1173] These are really good stories.
[1174] And afterwards, I feel like I was told a great story, but I also feel, you know, nourished because I learned something.
[1175] That's good.
[1176] And to me, that's a great magic trick to be able to pull off.
[1177] But the Tolstoy's, Gandhi, Mary Lincoln, Nabokov's wife Vera, Maya Angelou, and James Baldwin, who I didn't even realize had this incredible connection.
[1178] Molly Day Thatcher and Ilya Kizan, Virginia Wolf, Dr. Spock.
[1179] I mean, this, it's great.
[1180] Yeah, there's surprises in all of them.
[1181] My favorite thing like yours is that it's not all going to be.
[1182] that are all bad, that these are really complicated people and complicated relationships, and in this era of sort of re -examining historical heroes, I sort of love that when the re -examination can be incredibly complex and nuanced, and that it's not just, hey, guess what, this guy was secretly an asshole, although, guess what?
[1183] A lot of them, a lot of them, a lot of them, and it wasn't so secret.
[1184] I'm publicly an asshole.
[1185] Right, exactly.
[1186] And I think that's where I've got everyone fooled.
[1187] You've got a lot of people voicing things.
[1188] Nick Offerman is Leo Tolstoy, Megan Malawi, Sophia Tolstoy, Tim Ollifant, Rita Wilson, Jamila Jamil, Darcy Cardin, Lisa Kudrow, Paul F. Tompkins.
[1189] I mean, it's...
[1190] We're very lucky.
[1191] I called in every possible shit that I could.
[1192] I don't think anyone's ever going to take our call again.
[1193] Again, you're welcome.
[1194] Including Gourley.
[1195] Yeah, well, yes, including Matt Gourley.
[1196] That's right.
[1197] That's right.
[1198] What part did you play?
[1199] I play a reporter in the Lincoln episode, isn't that right?
[1200] When you're describing in great detail Mary Lincoln's, the shape of her head.
[1201] Yeah, it's a really, really misogynistic sort of slam of Mary Lincoln.
[1202] Yeah, it's crazy.
[1203] And we naturally thought of you.
[1204] Yeah.
[1205] You were perfect.
[1206] I get that a lot.
[1207] I love that they brought you in, Liza brought you in to be the creep.
[1208] Yeah, Lincoln episode.
[1209] Yeah.
[1210] What was there one thing that you learned that just really shocked you?
[1211] There are a lot of really fascinating moments.
[1212] I don't really want to spoil anything.
[1213] And one of the...
[1214] And you didn't know Lincoln was shot.
[1215] It's true.
[1216] Guys, I really learned a lot.
[1217] Did you know?
[1218] He went to a theater?
[1219] It's so crazy.
[1220] Hey, spoiler, man. Yeah, exactly.
[1221] Yeah, I don't want to...
[1222] I mean, nothing.
[1223] Everything was, you know, surprising at a certain point.
[1224] I think the Dr. Spock episode might be the most surprising to me. A lot of your fans might not even know who he was because he's so young.
[1225] about that because I was raised on that book.
[1226] You too.
[1227] And it's a real generational divide.
[1228] Like, I bet you could, you know, find the exact number above and under where people do or don't know about him.
[1229] But, um, it was a big, oh, Dr. Spock was the, uh, child care guru.
[1230] Oh, you know what?
[1231] We have his book.
[1232] Yeah.
[1233] And it was, I think in the 50s, 60s, 70s.
[1234] The book came out in 1946, same year my mother was born.
[1235] Wow.
[1236] And it revolutionized.
[1237] There's a great quote by a guy who wrote a profile in Esquire in like 86 when Spock died in 98.
[1238] So it was like toward the end of his life, but not all the way at the end.
[1239] And he was like, this had such a profound influence in such a quiet way because it was these articles that he was writing in women's magazines that were lying around, you know, hair salons.
[1240] And nothing else has affected so quickly and so vastly.
[1241] how the world regards babies and handles them and raises kids.
[1242] And, you know, so there's all this stuff about, like, he created the hippies.
[1243] He was responsible for the me generation.
[1244] There's been a lot of backlash.
[1245] The feminists hated him for a while.
[1246] And then he changed some stuff and got back in their good graces.
[1247] And meanwhile, you know, his own family was kind of a disaster.
[1248] Whenever someone writes, here's how to parent your child.
[1249] You're asking for trouble.
[1250] Yeah, within 10 minutes.
[1251] they start, those kids start killing people.
[1252] And he wasn't, like, he wasn't a big, like he didn't have the kind of ego that a lot of experts have.
[1253] He was very ready to revise what he had written and to collaborate and he didn't want to own it and be right all the time.
[1254] But then there's this just point where he couldn't take his own advice.
[1255] Anyway, it's, that one to me is really fascinating.
[1256] He's playing Dr. Spock.
[1257] Uncast as of now.
[1258] Just to be intentionally confusing.
[1259] Can't be Leonard anymore.
[1260] Well, he's passed on.
[1261] Who's the after who?
[1262] Oh, Zachary Quinto.
[1263] Oh, yeah.
[1264] It was just funny to me if we got Zachary Quinto who plays Spock now.
[1265] That's a great idea.
[1266] And got him to play Dr. Spock, but then do a lot of disclaimers up front.
[1267] Zachary Quinto will be playing Dr. Spock.
[1268] It's not that dark.
[1269] We know he plays him.
[1270] Just I love unnecessarily confusion.
[1271] I'm going to ruin your podcast.
[1272] No, and so his son, one of his sons said, that when Dr. Spock from Star Trek became a thing, he was so relieved because suddenly there was another, when people would see his last name and they would say, are you related to Dr. Spock?
[1273] And he would, he just like, oh, I don't want to.
[1274] Because he's then the living test of his dad's, you know, work.
[1275] And so when they would say, are you related to the Vulcan, he would be like, yes, exactly, that's what I'm related to.
[1276] That's why I root for Conan Gray, you know, the pop star.
[1277] I just want him.
[1278] As to our children.
[1279] Yeah, exactly.
[1280] I'm tired of being that Conan.
[1281] Oh, you're okay.
[1282] You know what I mean?
[1283] Yeah.
[1284] Significant Others is available right now.
[1285] It's already out.
[1286] A new episode of Significant Others drops every Wednesday with bonus episodes the following day.
[1287] So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[1288] I really do love it.
[1289] And if I didn't, I'd be very good at avoiding the topic.
[1290] This is true.
[1291] Yeah.
[1292] But I really, I'm a huge fan.
[1293] You'd be a lot nicer to me right now is what would be happening.
[1294] If you hated it, you would be praising it up the wazoo, right?
[1295] That's what you do.
[1296] So every time he's nice to you, uh -uh.
[1297] Be careful.
[1298] Interesting.
[1299] So, uh, check it out.
[1300] Then good.
[1301] Then you're good.
[1302] Significant others.
[1303] Oh, are you going to write a little theme song for me?
[1304] Yeah, I should.
[1305] Significant others get along, but sometimes they don't.
[1306] That's an awful song.
[1307] That's so bad.
[1308] Yeah.
[1309] That was really bad.
[1310] You can't even fix it.
[1311] No, nothing you can do with that.
[1312] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.
[1313] With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Goreley.
[1314] Produced by me, Matt Goreley.
[1315] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitaroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf.
[1316] Theme song by The White Stripes.
[1317] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
[1318] Take it away, Jimmy.
[1319] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples Engineering by Will Bechtin Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis Gina Batista and Brick Con You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts And you might find your review read on a future episode Got a question for Conan?
[1320] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 And leave a message It too could be featured on a future episode And if you haven't already please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
[1321] This has been a team Coco production in association with Earwolf.