99 - Shin Kick

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Do you hear the sounds of the podcast train?

[17] Of the ghost podcast train?

[18] Oh, there hasn't been a ghost podcast train for 25 years.

[19] That voice has gone totally into a southern bell area where it doesn't belong.

[20] I love it there.

[21] I want to stay there.

[22] It's supposed to be an old, a minor 49er.

[23] Yeah.

[24] But no, I've changed the scene.

[25] I don't care.

[26] I love it there.

[27] Great.

[28] Thank you for your support.

[29] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[30] Yes.

[31] That's Georgia hard start.

[32] That's Karen Kilgareff.

[33] And we heard to talk to you about a couple things called.

[34] crimes and true truthness we love truthness we also enjoy talking about crimes we'll never lie to you well we'll not get things right yes not intentionally right right but we won't lie but there'll be times we deeply mislead you uh -huh and what get you to say the wrong thing to your friends and coworkers in a braggy voice but they'll believe you because of your tone right and your delivery what we're telling you is it's all about tone in incantation it's all about incantations and it's all about spells and it's about having short -term jobs you don't have to go back and see the same people after like two weeks because you've lied to them so much god you meet one person in the whole in the eight jobs you've had as a temp that's like you're the best person you've met then they you will go on to marry that person right this is our guarantee to you so keep here and we don't lie to you look around the office right now is your eighth person your future spouse sitting near you pick them you have 15 seconds kick them pick them oh I'd rather you kick them kicking them is a great way to start the flirting if you take it from me seven year old Karen Kilgariff a good shin kick there's no better way to say I love you Karen has stuck with her flirting technique and she'll never let it go and we like your tenacity thank you I feel like it like having a big butt is going to come into fashion.

[35] I just have to wait it out.

[36] There was a time where I thought, no, kicking people and missions would never come into fashion in terms of flirting.

[37] But so many things have.

[38] Well, in this climate, in this rough climate of fucking, you know, ladies first.

[39] Doggy dog, the future is female, but there's also, there's a parallel future of Nazis.

[40] And there's all these things.

[41] Mambiolic is fucking arguing about shit that doesn't make any sense it's like no kicking in the shin's gonna be the only way we let anyone know you to break through to say hey you matter to me and and you have blossomed into a not fucking anti -feminist yeah asshole and so take and so prep yourself before you wreck your shins and this has been oh this has been an ad for hello fresh this whole fun.

[42] Anyways, go to promo code.

[43] Murder.

[44] Can we do you have a really quick shout out to the two ladies?

[45] Please do.

[46] The two fucking, so we, we just finished our last weekend tour of 2017.

[47] In St. Louis and Kansas City, it was a fucking amazing fun weekend.

[48] Yeah, thanks you guys.

[49] Thank you.

[50] We meet a bunch of awesome people after the show at the meet and greet.

[51] And everyone, like every fourth person comes up in a shirt, a homemade, my favorite murder shirt that's just funny and weird and shit that we don't remember saying or is like something they drew it's it's always funny oh there was two girls that had uh stay sexy don't get murdered in wingdings yes that i and i was like do people oh no it was yeah SSD GM wingedings um and i was like does anyone is anyone able to read wingdings off the dome and then know what that says and they were like not yet this is the best that was great and And there were two other ladies, and they had shorts that just said, promo code, murder.

[52] And I was just like, you fucking subtle as fuck, badass bitches.

[53] We laughed so hard.

[54] Like, you never even crossed our minds that that was like a funny thing.

[55] The wingtings also included a bomb.

[56] Yeah.

[57] Because I think, don't get, I think a murder must be bomb.

[58] Right?

[59] Well, there was a bomb at the end, like the little, like, cartoon bomb.

[60] But I thought those things only represented the letter.

[61] Yeah.

[62] Oh.

[63] So it wouldn't be murder.

[64] But I just thought it was coincidental that a bomb would be in there because it was SS.

[65] I think it was the D was a bomb.

[66] I don't know.

[67] Something in there.

[68] It doesn't matter.

[69] It was still great.

[70] It was great.

[71] It was the bomb.

[72] It was great looking.

[73] It was the bomb.

[74] Also, someone in Kansas City, by the time it got back to us, we got so many nice presents and thanks to you guys.

[75] We got tons of stuff backstage.

[76] There's a lot of people that were worried saying, we gave you something and then they took it away from us.

[77] the shit you guys bring the theater is like you cannot bring that in here you can't bring the severed head of ted bundy into our theater please don't but it's actually a cake sorry you can't yeah um so we got a whole table full it was like christmas backstage for us somebody made a plastic baggie filled with the best chocolate chip cookies i've ever had i think there was either rice crispy's or corn flakes in them so they were really small and crispy whoever did that god bless you i ate maybe six of them just standing there talking we got a full cheesecake oh my god people went crazy for that cheesecake we got this a haunted scary clown the doll it's over there yeah so these these lovely women these two women brought i don't know where the fuck they must have found it like i think they said a secondhand shop yeah and they were like somehow they sound and were like Karen and georgia need this which like what does that say about us it was like a raggedy ann homemade clown doll from the 70s knitted that like clearly whatever child got it was terrified of it because it didn't look like it had been touched no because one side of the clown's face one side of the clown was a happy clown and then you turned it over and we're going to post it and it was the most terrifying clown's sad face you've ever seen yes with silver tears knitted onto the face Stephen you're going to have to post it okay it is so upsetting and also the best part was the way the girl this was in St. Louis.

[78] The way the girl walked up holding it, or woman, sorry, I always do that.

[79] She held it like she was also a ghost.

[80] Like she walked up really weird and stiff and kind of like really slow.

[81] Like she had been looking forward to giving this to us for two months and she was like, finally it's here.

[82] Yes, it was so good.

[83] Everything about the presentation.

[84] She said to me, she goes, turn it over.

[85] Yeah.

[86] And then it was horror show.

[87] Yeah.

[88] So anyway, you guys will see it.

[89] Steven.

[90] I was going to say wingdings.

[91] the bomb is M. So M in murder.

[92] Yep.

[93] Right.

[94] Okay.

[95] Perfect.

[96] So M just happens to be a bomb.

[97] Look at that.

[98] It's so perfect for us.

[99] Two.

[100] Wingdings was made for us.

[101] Oh my God.

[102] Wingdings?

[103] Wingtings is like my personal.

[104] I didn't know I loved, like, because I've loved a lot of fonts.

[105] Mostly Times New Roman, but Wing Dings is now.

[106] You know I only use Georgia font.

[107] I know.

[108] But from here on out, I'm doing my fucking bullet journal only in Wing Dings from now on.

[109] Goodbye.

[110] it's so perfect um okay bye bye uh oh what do you have i was gonna say a couple things about my sweet adrina i because i was talking about it over the weekend with people at the live shows i love you care because i don't um i really care so much and i i know that there are people who like sped through reading it and there are people who responded of like i thought we were going to do a book club we told them we were doing a thing and then we were like nope goodbye yeah which is like if you're not this is episode 99 if you don't know that by now yeah flakeroo except for i really it's just taking me forever to read it because i this book i'm i'm attacking it on two fronts which is i have the hard bound copy next to my bed like an old widow and then i eat out a box of chocolates as i read it and then i also have the audiobook so i was listening to it on the plane and i just would like to read a couple this makes me so happy oh and also so many people have said you have to listen to teen creeps because they have this great episode on this.

[111] But I don't want to listen to that until I'm done reading this book.

[112] So it doesn't influence what I'm saying in any way, if that makes sense.

[113] Okay.

[114] So I will definitely do that because so many people have recommended it, even our own Stephen.

[115] They did an episode of, what episode was it?

[116] Well, they've done my Cedar, Gina, but I was just going to say, I've been on the podcast twice and it's been really fun.

[117] Lindsay and Kelly are really sweet.

[118] And they, they, I mean, the fact that they read a book every week to do this podcast is incredible.

[119] That what?

[120] Oh, but it's, it's mostly Y .A. Yeah, it's all like Arles Stein and Christopher Pike and everything.

[121] Still, this shit's, yeah.

[122] Still, that's 200 pages.

[123] How do they do it?

[124] Read me a thing.

[125] Okay.

[126] We have to write a book report.

[127] They have to read a book.

[128] They have to read a book and talk about it.

[129] And report.

[130] And report it.

[131] Okay.

[132] So I'm now in the part where she meets, no, I don't have his name written here.

[133] We're boring old, oddrina?

[134] We're boring old second best.

[135] nobody liked you shut up adrina you're not the dead one therefore you're not as good adrina calm down adrina she's second best second place is first loser first is the worst second is the worst second is worseer second is worseer she goes into the forest which she's constantly forbidden to go into stupid we've told you by her family how many times she's nine oh quick reminder for people she's nine years old then she goes into the forest there's a home in the forest where and of course I'm picturing it like full on gingerbread house and in the house is a boy I think his name is Auden and then his mother lives there too and she hides behind a tree and watches him rake the yard and in the book it's talking about like how he has a hot ass and shit he's 12 years old I swear to God is he say Andrews okay I mean I think she's just laying out a lot of like let's the let's just break all these taboos is she a pedophile uh no I think she's welcoming your mind to explore options you have up until this point told yourself you are not allowed to explore like pedophilia well or just a light appreciation of a 12 year old boy's ass in jeans privately so then uh she gets caught being in the woods peeping being a peeping being a stocker yes a nine -year -old stalker um and so her father comes storming in grabs her every interaction with her and her father, I get so nervous, it's going to boil over into incest.

[136] Every time they talk or have breakfast or whatever, there's so much inappropriate in, like, intensity.

[137] Yeah.

[138] But at one point, he starts, he says to her, common people will, will drain your specialness.

[139] And I had to write it down.

[140] Because she's saying, he's saying like, you're too good to talk to those people in the woods.

[141] Oh, you, Adrina, who, you're making you the creepiest, creeping creeper.

[142] Yeah, don't talk to common people They're fucking Yeah, she's like, take my specialness, please I'm so sick of this specialness But she's She, like quick reminder, she's a nine year old And her hair is all colors And her eyes are all colors Right, what the fuck was that?

[143] It changed, oh It's like, it's like she's a calico child And that's part of her specialness Oh, hey.

[144] Oh, also the description of when Vera gets spanked by daddy Oh yeah And it's down to like her ass burning through her thin underwear like it gets into a detail where I'm like no this is I think we need to talk to VC Andrews I think we need to have available I don't know we need to have a little fucking quickie convo with her I mean look it really it just right it goes right up to the edge and then and then scatters back and then kicks it in the shin and then says I have a crush on you incest and runs away it's so crazy just bruised shins Yes.

[145] Oh, and then I said this at the show the other night, but my favorite, I'm assuming it's a misprint.

[146] It's some, she describes somebody, and I'm pretty sure it's cousin Vera coming down the hall, clumsily clumbering, which I'm like, I'm almost positive of clumbering isn't a word?

[147] The clumbering makes so much sense, though.

[148] It makes more sense, but you can't, if you're going to say clumbering and not lumbering.

[149] We don't need clumsy as well.

[150] Get clumsy out of there and get a different adjective with, without the C .L. at the beginning, because now you're clumsily clumbering is, you're, you're.

[151] borderline like Rod doll.

[152] Why don't you just start singing a song?

[153] Upalupa style.

[154] And it's like, okay, stop tripping over your own fucking feet.

[155] Yeah.

[156] Who, Vera?

[157] Everyone.

[158] She's a big fucking clumber.

[159] It's the girl?

[160] Okay.

[161] Speaking of books about children, I have one to talk about.

[162] Okay.

[163] But this is a bad one.

[164] I mean, not this is a badder.

[165] This is a real one.

[166] Okay.

[167] So last week we got in our PO box a couple books from a woman who, lives in Ohio and gave us to like Ohio true crime books you took one yeah and I kept the other and started reading it and I am halfway through not fucking obsessed with it okay it's so good this is a woman named Karen sent these to us and it's um this one's called Amy my search for her killer here I'll show it to you because she's this is a true crime one her name's Amy Mahalovic she's from a Cleveland suburb and she disappeared on uh in October of 1989 And this dude, James Renner, who's the author, who's like, he, like, pitched it to his, like, newspaper in town that he was working on.

[168] And now this whole book is written by him trying to find out and going through fucking each suspect and talking to the, you know, the main investigator, the FBI agents, the fucking family.

[169] And it's written so well.

[170] And he inserts himself in the book in a way that doesn't suck.

[171] Yeah.

[172] Because he was the same age as she was when she disappeared at town over.

[173] And, like, so it's part of him.

[174] way that we understand right yeah yeah the way that we remember growing up and seeing this person's face and how much it meant to us and it's it is such a fucking good book amazing and i can't wait to finish it so it's a it's by it's called amy a search for my search for her killer by james renner and i'm totally obsessed with it and in case you can't find it because it looks pretty um it's called it's a published by gray and company publishers www .greyco .com.

[175] G -R -E -Y.

[176] Sorry, G -R -A -Y.

[177] So if you can't find it in normal ways, it's on grayco .com.

[178] It's written so well.

[179] James Reiner, you can, like, you can tell how much it means to him when he's writing it, and it makes the book so heartfelt and interesting and wonderful, and I really love it.

[180] Yeah, that's awesome.

[181] Yeah.

[182] He's got a good face.

[183] He does.

[184] Yeah.

[185] You really did read a lot of that.

[186] Yeah.

[187] Dang, girl.

[188] All weekend, I've been.

[189] reading that good girl I know instead of drinking I'm like I can't drink too much because I want to read this book thanks James you fucking cured my alcoholism yeah that's right James James you should send him a Starbucks card oh I that I swear to God that wasn't an intentional segue but I would like to thank live nation yes no no no I went to Starbucks the other night in Glendale because just running errands and it was the night before I get so weird before we leave when we travel and I have to buy things that I want to make sure are there when I get back I get real OCD weird plus you like you're like black dress I need a black dress and all that no nothing I actually need I do things like I need coffee so I have coffee here when I get back like weird I wonder what that means it's just like it's part of my not wanting to leave the house in the first place um so I start telling myself like if I go I won't be ready.

[190] Yeah, there's a, I have a real stalking problem.

[191] But I went in.

[192] So is Adrina.

[193] So is that second and worst shitty Adrina.

[194] The creepiest and peepiest, audrina.

[195] The creepiest, peepiest, stockiest ever.

[196] Nine year old behind a rain tree.

[197] With a fucking 12 year old butt, Adrina.

[198] There's like a whole picnic scene where I'm like, nine year olds and 12 year olds don't go on picnics.

[199] Nine years and 12 year olds are a hundred years apart.

[200] Yes.

[201] Nobody wants, no 12 year old wants to talk to a nine year old.

[202] Unless she has hair that's purple.

[203] gold, yellow, orange, and red.

[204] Okay, so I went to the, I went to the, um, the Starbucks closest to the designer shoe warehouse.

[205] And, uh, and I went in and the only coffee they had out were, was Christmas blend.

[206] So I asked the girl behind the counter if they had Italian, that's my kind.

[207] Um, she says, hold on, I'll get my co -work to go look for it.

[208] Are you fascist?

[209] A little bit.

[210] Okay.

[211] Yeah.

[212] I only, I like Italy just from like 1935.

[213] to write around 43.

[214] Fair enough.

[215] The girl comes out of the back holding, like, the one bag of Italian.

[216] And when she, the doors fly open, she's like, oh, my God.

[217] And then I was like, hey, I was like, that's for me. And she's like, um, okay, I love your podcast.

[218] And then this is, that's my favorite reaction when people seem genuinely bummed.

[219] Like they don't want to say it, but they've already acted weird.

[220] Yeah.

[221] And it was super cute.

[222] Anyway, long story short, she didn't act weird.

[223] That sounds judgmental.

[224] She was very sweet.

[225] and seemed happy and surprised.

[226] And then she gave me a free pound of coffee.

[227] And I was like, wait, hold on.

[228] I don't want you to pay for my coffee.

[229] And then she's like, no, we get a free pound every week.

[230] It was like a pound she would have had at home with her roommates.

[231] That's right.

[232] I'd like to take that away from her.

[233] So thank you to.

[234] Thank you to Mariah at the Glendale Starbucks.

[235] Front and me, your friends and family coffee.

[236] That's what she said anyway.

[237] Friends and fascist coffee.

[238] Thank you, Mariah.

[239] My Mussolini Sips I love it I love Italians I love the way they make coffee And did you come home from your trip Happy that you had coffee?

[240] Yes pre -ground Already in the thing Come on Because the mistake I always make is then Oh forget I'll just get the whole bean At the grocery store No No never Terrible Listen Creates look it creates garbage on your counter Don't want that Can't have it Um Steven's got one Steven's pointing at a thing Oh good Okay Stephen almost deleted this entire episode of the magic the magic that just happened you wouldn't I mean you heard it how could any of that get recaptured I love thinking of people who start this podcast this late on and the way we start this thing is like a word puzzle like who the fuck would know what was going on why are they talking about my sweet adrina and kicking people in the shins oh it's the first night of honica oh yeah a honica miracle happened today what was it so my thing My thing that I'm happy about this week at the end of the episode was going to be that my mom and I are going to therapy on Thursday.

[241] She's coming with me to therapy.

[242] Wow.

[243] We're going to sit in therapy together and work out why she's such a fucking stupid bitch.

[244] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to work some shit out.

[245] I'm going to work it out.

[246] Because we're fighting right now and not speaking.

[247] But here's what happened.

[248] I accidentally told her it was Tuesday our therapy appointment.

[249] So she called me and was like, where the fuck are you?

[250] She was like, where are you?

[251] And so I made her come meet Vince and I for lunch and we worked some shit out.

[252] Oh, that's good.

[253] Really well.

[254] Yeah.

[255] Oh, that's good?

[256] So everything's good now.

[257] Are you still going to go?

[258] She can't.

[259] She has to work.

[260] On Thursday?

[261] Yeah.

[262] So it's not, it wouldn't have happened like it wouldn't have happened because I fucked it up.

[263] Yeah.

[264] But we talked and argued and Vince being there made it really great because he's such a good mediator and everything.

[265] So everything's fine now.

[266] Oh, good.

[267] Everything's, you know, human now.

[268] Are you, but are you going to?

[269] to get her to go or you think that that window is closed no no she'll come she's been offering it for years and i've always been like that's fucking condescending fuck you you think that like coming to therapy and so you can tell me what's wrong with you know i've been a dick about it but does she go to therapy oh yeah we all go to therapy oh okay everyone in my family goes to fucking therapy got it yeah so that was a honica miracle amazing yeah that you got to do it out of the office right yeah that it's still we still were able to talk about what happened oh that's good with her mean text to me um so thank you yaway yes and the angel gabriel uh -huh and those guys and the first and best adrina that's all her thank you that's all her she had white hair i believe white yeah it wasn't fucking changing colory no like a fucking monster she wasn't a fucking cuttlefish please oh oh elvis eliz loves cuttlefish oh what's the little uh oh my god Jesus.

[270] What's the one, um, Tiny Tim?

[271] It's a happy Christmas, everyone.

[272] Is that it?

[273] Is that it?

[274] Nope.

[275] It's like you, you just, um, revealed that you've been like a, a spy, a Russian spy.

[276] Deep, deep, deep state Russian spy.

[277] Listen, all I've seen is Scrooge.

[278] It's the happy Christmas everyone.

[279] I said it was a, um, Hanukkah miracle Elvis fucking this insane Siamese cat screamed and then I said it's a happy Christmas everyone oh sorry that just reminded me my favorite shirt of the weekend was the woman who was wearing a shirt that said make Paul onions proud I almost lost my mind I don't it's what is wrong with you people it's the best people ever funniest best who wants to go first I went first at the insane Kansas City show that'll never be posted that is one of my favorite shows so sometimes you guys will have um well like if we sell out a show really really quickly our amazing wonderful tour agent Joe Schwartz will be like you guys at a late show and we'll be like okay and then we're like why did we do that it's really hard to do it's pretty hard second show and so we get on there and we're fucking hopped up on Diet Coke and fucking coffee.

[280] And cocaine.

[281] And cocaine.

[282] And like many Twix bars.

[283] And we go up and it's fucking bananas.

[284] And this one was especially bananas.

[285] I...

[286] You say that yours was great.

[287] You saved it.

[288] Here's the thing.

[289] It just is like such a roll of the dice.

[290] We're doing a thing that you probably should not do for a live show, which is we don't know what the other person is going to talk about, which makes it really fun and is the best part.

[291] But then on that one with mine, I felt like I was in a car sliding on ice, like skidding into a brick wall.

[292] I went first last time.

[293] So I'll go first.

[294] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[295] Absolutely.

[296] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[297] Exactly.

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[312] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[313] Goodbye.

[314] Hey, this is exciting.

[315] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[316] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[317] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[318] Who killed Saz?

[319] And were they really after Charles?

[320] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[321] This season, murder hits close to home.

[322] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[323] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[324] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[325] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[326] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Meryl Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[327] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[328] Goodbye.

[329] Now, this story, Guy Branham told me to do this a while ago when we were doing shows in Toronto.

[330] But I said, no, it's, when he told me about it, I read it up a little bit.

[331] And then I was like, oh, it's too singular.

[332] It's too, like, does it?

[333] have enough I don't know bells and whistles or whatever body and then body body yeah um but then I read it and that's not the case and I knew it was a good story because for me it this story causes me more and more and more anxiety as I read it so I'll tell you about this is um this is the story of Jennifer Pan oh you know this one yes okay then I love it so I realized in reading these articles what I found was that the real like mother like the source of this story that yeah exactly the original yeast dough of this story was from an article written by a woman named Karen K. Ho a name I'll remember for the rest of my life for um for um I guess a magazine called Toronto life because this girl knew Jennifer Pan and grew up with her.

[334] So it was kind of giving a different, like a different view of how the whole thing.

[335] I feel like it's always different when the person who's writing the story knows what the town was like where they're from.

[336] You know what I mean?

[337] Like, because it can be like any fucking small town or sub or whatever when you know what it's like.

[338] Yeah.

[339] And what the person, what the high school is like and what the curriculum and what the person's expectations are.

[340] the context because context and this one yes and like it's the family context especially in this story because this is one of those stories about what they call the dragon parents so right there's tiger moms are one thing but then there's another term that they they were using in all these articles and it was dragging dragon parents or dragon father so i think it's the ones that are way more intense it's not just like it's it's it's the kind that are insanely restrictive and insanely strict and and tough with really high expectations where there's kind of you have no choice.

[341] There's a failure is not an option.

[342] Okay.

[343] So on November 8th, 2010, at around 9 .30 p .m., Jennifer Pan locked the front door of her family's home in Markham, Ontario, which is a suburb outside of Toronto, and went to bed.

[344] Shortly afterwards, three men entered her home with guns.

[345] They ransacked the home.

[346] It was a home invasion, looking for money.

[347] They grabbed Jennifer's parents.

[348] Han is her father, and Bick is her mother.

[349] They took them down into the basement, basically the TV room down in their basement.

[350] Brought them down in the basement.

[351] They were demanding money.

[352] They looked all through the master bedroom.

[353] They tore up the whole master bedroom to find money.

[354] They kept demanding money.

[355] We're being invaded.

[356] Han, Jennifer's father, told them that he had money in his wallet.

[357] He was trying to think of other places that he could give them money from.

[358] And they end up shooting Han in the shoulder and then in the right eye.

[359] And then as Bick, Jennifer's mother, is screaming, they shoot her three times and kill her.

[360] Han survives getting shot in the eye.

[361] The dad?

[362] Yes.

[363] How does that happen?

[364] I don't know.

[365] It broke his orbital bone, the bullet, and it grazed the vein that goes down your throat.

[366] I guess is it your jugular or one of those?

[367] No, the art cartoid.

[368] The eye vein.

[369] His big tear duct.

[370] It basically went through his eye.

[371] No, I don't like that.

[372] But then, like, I think out the side and he survived.

[373] Jesus.

[374] Um, upstairs, they tied Jennifer to the staircase, um, banisters.

[375] Thank you to the banister.

[376] The thing you stick your head through.

[377] And get stuck.

[378] How old is she again, 16?

[379] She, no, at the time she is 26.

[380] Okay.

[381] Oh, wow.

[382] But she looks 16.

[383] Okay.

[384] She lives at home.

[385] Yes.

[386] She lives at home with her very strict parents.

[387] Okay.

[388] So they tie her with shoe laces to the banister.

[389] and they shoot the parents and then they all leave with whatever the cash that they've taken I think it ended up being like through around $3 ,000 or something Jennifer gets out of she loosens out of the shoe laces she calls 911 she's freaking out the cops arrive Han comes out of the basement he's able to get up and walk outside a neighbor's the first one to find him and he gets loaded into an ambulance Jennifer gets loaded into an ambulance she has a younger brother who is half an hour away at college and they all get taken she gets met by crisis workers at the hospital they tell her her father's in surgery and that her mother is dead she's at the hospital for a really long time eventually they realize that there's not even wounds like Like there aren't even red marks on her wrist from those shoelaces.

[390] So she is uninjured and she ends up, they take her, once she's out of the hospital, they take her back to the police station and the detectives question her and basically just kind of start asking her questions, what happened, just can you describe these people?

[391] They make her go through it once.

[392] Then they do another technique where they make her.

[393] And I also got a lot of this from case file, one of our favorite case file.

[394] That's what that's the episode I listened to.

[395] of this show.

[396] I mean, that guy just does such amazing research.

[397] It's just so dramatic.

[398] Yes.

[399] He was also pronouncing the mom's name Bicca, but I only ever saw written that it was pronounced Bick.

[400] Well, yeah, and he's Australian.

[401] He's Australian.

[402] I don't know what he's doing.

[403] He's doing something with his voice.

[404] So anyway, okay, so basically she goes and the cops are like, tell me the story your way.

[405] Now tell it from above.

[406] like just and then see what you can remember so crazy like that's so weird can you imagine having to do that yes especially of a traumatic event yeah telling the story over and over again as like as you see the people acting it out as oh that's so weird it's so crazy but then that second way does help her to remember and she's able to describe the guys better and more detail she remembers them the names that they called each other yeah um different things that they talked about with the money whatever um so it's a little bit effective then right before she leaves the guy says oh we need to check your phone because if these guys we think you know her mom had just come home from line dancing class so they're like well maybe somebody followed her or like it's she was targeted somehow so if it wasn't her then we want to see if it was you if you were being targeted so we need to know who you've been talking to and then in this interview because on the case file thing that that he has all the interview tapes.

[407] So it starts with the 911 tape where I was on the freeway.

[408] Did she listen?

[409] On the way over.

[410] And I grabbed that phone so fast because she is freaking out into the phone.

[411] And of course, you know, screaming.

[412] But then in the police interview tapes, she's crying.

[413] She's really upset.

[414] And then at one point, he says, you need to sign this thing so we can look into your phone.

[415] And then she's like, so.

[416] And all of a sudden, she has a bunch of questions about.

[417] how they're looking into her phone and what that might mean and he's basically going it's fine because if you're not lying to us it's just us looking at your phone and then if you are lying to us we're going to find out like who you've been talking to and if it's information we need to know and that's when like the temperature changes a little bit because up until that point she was the victim she was you know like the one of two survivors of a terrible home invasion murder robbery um so that you know it changes a tiny bit there um And then they start looking into her past and the people that she's been talking to.

[418] And it turns out that Jennifer Pan might not be the person that she has been presenting herself to be.

[419] Okay, so basically her father, Han, had been a tiger dad.

[420] Well, we'll start at the beginning.

[421] Her parents were both born and raised in Vietnam, and they moved to Canada as political refugees in 1979.

[422] and they got married in Toronto and then they lived in Scarborough neighborhood for a while and that's where they had Jennifer in 1987 and then her brother Felix in 1989 Scarborough neighborhood apparently was kind of rough at the time that they lived there they both Han and Bick worked at Magnet International car parts manufacturer and they worked really hard so by 2004 they'd save enough money to buy a large house, the two -car garage, in Markham.

[423] So Markham was a quiet suburb north of Toronto, predominantly Asian families, and very, it's just kind of like where people went.

[424] It was really just quiet, low -key.

[425] And now Bick is driving Alexis, Hans driving a Mercedes.

[426] Like, they're doing very well.

[427] And they have, it's reported they had 200 grand of the bank so they were totally dedicated to their kids and getting their kids into college getting their making their kids as successful um you know Canadians as they can um so they didn't allow Jennifer they had Jennifer was playing piano from the age of four she won all these awards she had like a room full of awards for how good she was at playing the piano um then she got into ice skating um when she a little older when she's a little older and she did it every single day and she wanted to go uh she was like in training and she had set her sights on being in the 2010 winter Olympics in Vancouver then she tears a ligament in her knee and basically that dream ends for her um when she was graduating eighth grade she thought she was going to be the valedictorian and she basically found out she was getting no academic awards and she was not the valedictorian and that's like all of a sudden she was just like i'm the point i'm not who i'm supposed to be and she kind of she had been working her ass off up to that point so she it wasn't she didn't make a mark and she was shocked and couldn't believe it and that's totally unacceptable in her family like her family was like always all you do is like these extracurricular activities we've chosen for you very specifically and then you're going to be like you're going to get a 4 .8 GPA essentially um so so she just has to do the impotry she just has to do the impossible possible, essentially.

[428] Okay, got it.

[429] So, um, so some nights in elementary school, she'd come home from ice skating at 10, then do homework till midnight, and then go to bed in, in elementary school.

[430] And, um, and in elementary school, she started cutting herself because the pressure was so intense to be successful in all these different things she was doing.

[431] Um, so she was doing little horizontal cuts on her forearms.

[432] Oh, baby.

[433] Yeah.

[434] So, um, so, um, so then when she went to Mary Ward Catholic secondary school ice skating was over for her so she started playing flute in the school band but every day after school her parents were there to pick her up when band practice was over so she could go home and study but her grades in for the way their family considered it were failing because she was only getting bees God I would have fucking paid for a bee back then with my cello with my shitty cello playing I mean I don't understand why I got any of the greats I got because I never tried and I would get just a full variety from A to D. Oh, it was just like, why try?

[435] Yeah, I don't.

[436] I learned that early.

[437] It's very random.

[438] Why try?

[439] Why try?

[440] Just have a good time.

[441] Yeah.

[442] So when she got her first bad, you know, all B's report card freshman year, she took some old report cards, some scissors, some glue, a photocopier, and she made herself a brand new fake report card worth straight A's.

[443] All A's.

[444] Yep, that's how you get all A's.

[445] And in her mind, she said, universities don't consider marks from Canadian grade 9 and Canadian grade 10.

[446] So she's, in her mind, it wasn't a big deal.

[447] It didn't matter.

[448] Fair enough.

[449] And I'm sure she was thinking, I'm buying myself a little time.

[450] Here's these A's, and I'll work back up to A's and it'll all work out.

[451] Sure.

[452] She was not allowed to have a boyfriend.

[453] She was not allowed to go to dances.

[454] She was not allowed to go to parties.

[455] She was not allowed to spend the night at friends' houses.

[456] she was it was all about school and getting her school work um in the spring um all her hard work and dedication paid off she graduated from high school and won early acceptance to ryerson university in toronto um her parents were happy they wanted her to go to the university of toronto but ryerson university was still great for them here's the problem uh jennifer pan had early acceptance to ryerson university but then that got canceled when she flunked out of calculus, uh, when she was a senior.

[457] Oh, no. Um, so she, that, that early acceptance was rescinded now she's not in any college.

[458] Oh, no. So she starts doing what many people do.

[459] You pretend you're going to college every morning.

[460] So this is like, yeah, now we're into me when I live in Sacramento and I'm flunking out of college, but my parents don't know.

[461] So I'm doing the thing where I go home for the summer and every day, get up and run to the mailbox like I'm a child excited for the mail trying to get the mail the report card before my parents do because they're going to see it and no you're not going yeah my report card was like a point eight three or something like I was only going to theater classes I mean you're literally going it was insane oh no so she's doing the same thing but she's kind of doing it in reverse so she's saying she's going to getting up every morning taking the train and then just chilling out at cafes she got a part -time job waitressing at a pizza place and she was hanging out with her secret high school boyfriend Daniel Wong so she had been dating Daniel Wong since they went on a European in high school bands they went on a trip to Europe and she'd only been friends with them up until that point and she I think the story was that she had an asthma attack and a smoked foot billed bar and, like, thought that she was going to die because she couldn't breathe.

[462] And Daniel came to her rescue.

[463] And Daniel came to her rescue.

[464] Daniel Wong.

[465] And, like, talked her down.

[466] And then they became secret lover.

[467] Yeah.

[468] I was trying to hold my breath so you could finish that because it was so amazing.

[469] But I couldn't.

[470] Karen singing.

[471] Oh, my God, Daniel.

[472] They were secret lovers.

[473] So that hadn't been going on also.

[474] She had had a bunch of plates spinning at once.

[475] Jennifer Pant.

[476] So sometimes she would go over to his house.

[477] She finally convinced her parents that she needed to move in with her friend, Topaz, who lived close to college.

[478] And had an amazing name.

[479] And had the best names.

[480] Was she a stripper?

[481] We'll never know.

[482] It doesn't matter.

[483] That's what I'm picturing in my head.

[484] Topaz in the apartment had the pole to practice on.

[485] I mean, that's hard.

[486] Have you seen this is like some crazy ab work?

[487] Dude, that's like incredible dedication, Stamina.

[488] Stamina.

[489] I just fall asleep as I'm talking.

[490] So, okay, so basically that becomes part of it.

[491] She's also telling her father that her grades are so good, she's getting like $3 ,000 tuition scholarships.

[492] So it's just lies upon lies on lies.

[493] So.

[494] Because it's better than having to tell your parents that you're just like a normal human being.

[495] Right.

[496] Which made me so sad.

[497] It's just, just to be like I'm just average and I want it just enjoy my life as a normal human is not acceptable right and there is apparently there's a couple times in this article that um bick her mom would be like let her be herself or she's okay as she is and tried to like take the heat off a little bit but she was also Jennifer's the oldest yeah and there's just so you know there was so much pressure it's that it's it's the same kind of pressure in um like i will i can equate it in the way of like in our family irish immigrants like they call them lace lace curtain irish where they make sure everything looks really good because they think everybody thinks they're a scam bag so they're like here's our beautiful lace look how well we're doing everything's ironed and everyone we have nine kids but everyone's clothes are perfectly ironed because it's a thing of like immigrant parents where it's like, I didn't fucking, I didn't go through what I went through for you to work in an office, like a boring office or in a pizza place or as a, you know, even as an exotic dancer, like, which is all acceptable fucking jobs.

[498] It's what everybody does.

[499] That's not, I will not accept it.

[500] I didn't come here from Vietnam to fucking raise a child to not be a superstar.

[501] You have to have like your own law firm.

[502] You have to, yeah, you have to do everything perfectly and never trip once, which is, not only impossible, but also that's not how you get good at things.

[503] Thank God my parents had no expectations for me whatsoever, aside from, I mean, aside from nothing.

[504] My parents, my dad used to love to tell the story that they used to bring home their report cards to my grandpa who they said, D's and Fs meant doing fine.

[505] And he didn't, he dropped out of school when he was a kid.

[506] Great.

[507] So he was like, doing good everybody.

[508] Jesus Christ.

[509] And they all became civil servants and plumbers and things that, you know, back then, you could make money by doing that.

[510] Sure.

[511] It's not like that anymore.

[512] Anyway.

[513] I'm sorry.

[514] Go on.

[515] No, no, no. No, but it's just funny how there, there, there are these pressures.

[516] And some way it's like, in some cultures, it's like, in some cultures, it's like you have to get married and have a family immediately pressure.

[517] It's, it just depends, but.

[518] Or being, you have to be religious.

[519] Yeah.

[520] Stay in the clique.

[521] Totally.

[522] Stay in the fam.

[523] Totally.

[524] Okay, so Jennifer is, she's under the gun, and now she's 22 years old, and she has been lying to her parents consistently since, like, eighth grade, essentially.

[525] Oh, my God.

[526] And being, having, like, a double life, which is kind of amazing.

[527] She's, but she's never gone to a party.

[528] She's never gone to a club.

[529] She's never gotten drunk.

[530] And her one relationship is her secret relationship with Daniel Wong.

[531] So basically, she then took.

[532] tells them that she her, it was her father's dream for her to go to pharmacology school and become a pharmacist.

[533] So she's like, guess what?

[534] Everybody I got accepted.

[535] Like she just makes a thing up?

[536] Yeah.

[537] She, um, she lies.

[538] She tells them that she got in.

[539] They're thrilled.

[540] She hadn't, but she starts buying used books and bringing home like pharmacology books.

[541] And when she would leave her school every day, it's stressing you out, huh, Stephen?

[542] No, it just reminds of the woman who did that for Stanford and pretend to be in Stanford for like two years.

[543] Same thing.

[544] Because her family thought she was in Stanford?

[545] Yeah, the family pressure, yeah.

[546] So she lived in like Palo Alto?

[547] And she would like sleep in like if a dorm like a roommate dropped out, she'd be like, oh, I'm the new roommate.

[548] And she would sleep in people's dorms and stuff pretending that she was a student faking her grades, all the same stuff.

[549] Oh my God.

[550] Yeah.

[551] It's insane.

[552] They kind of should get an honor.

[553] doctorate for getting away with it yeah for like faking it for so long don't pretend to be successful you're then you have so much further to fall yes and also it's take that take that initial hit of like i fucked up let the chips fall they can only yell for so long yeah and take the and take the initiative to lie and use that towards something better you know what i mean like you're really good liar like go get a job somewhere cool right and build yourself up to me management take that lie your way to manage right don't lie but just like you clearly are not stupid if you're able to fucking trick all these people for two years get into sales get into fucking sell houses sell houses sell mobile phones on Hollywood Boulevard right out on the sidewalk right pharmaceuticals you start right around the corner in the alley go my dad sold fucking ginsu knives at fucking Walmart hell yes do it those things can cut a Coke can and he showed you how at a Walmart.

[554] Marty!

[555] Go ahead.

[556] So, she instead goes for it in a major way.

[557] She majors in lying and tells her dad she's going to pharmacology school, which I just can't it's almost like she's not even lying and going like, you know what, I got a job in California, I'll see you later or anything.

[558] She's not busting out.

[559] She's just like continuing to try to make it work.

[560] Like I still have to live here.

[561] Yeah.

[562] And I have to make these people happy and I don't know how.

[563] So I'm just going to do it the way they demand.

[564] So she's buying fake textbooks and not fake textbook used textbooks like oh the old pharmacology right and then she's going to the library and watching videos and reading books on it and taking notes so that when she goes home she has reams of notes so it looks like she's really doing work she could have actually been going to school this whole time doing that probably if she if she wasn't a B student she could have um that was rude so so then she asked she asked if she can stay at topaz's house during the because it's a way better commute her mom's like super empathetic and like let's let her it'll be so much better well she's of course not staying at topaz's house she's staying at daniel wong's house danny um his parents she was lying to his parents and saying it was okay with her parents that she was staying at their house and then uh so basically there was no one she wasn't lying to accept Daniel Wong.

[565] Oh, Daniel.

[566] So basically when it was theoretically time for her to graduate from the University of Toronto Pharmacology program, they, Daniel and helped her find someone online to create a fake transcript with all A's in it.

[567] And then she told her parents when it was the graduation ceremony that that it was an extra large class and all the, there weren't enough seats, all the students only got one ticket and she'd already given it to a friend because she didn't think one parent would want to go without the other parent.

[568] Yeah, I think that's when it might have started to stink a little bit to the parents.

[569] But then when Jennifer told them that she was volunteering at Toronto's prestigious hospital for sick children, they noticed that she didn't have any ID, no uniform, there was nothing to prove that she officially worked there.

[570] So one day, Han, they drop her off or they insist upon driving her to work and so then she gets out of car and runs into the hospital and then Han tells Bick go in after her and follow her in so she ends up going and running and like hiding for hours in the emergency room or in the waiting room and basically Bick comes back out and like doesn't find her and basically she waits them out until they leave and then early the next morning they called topaz to say hey we need to talk to jennifer and topaz who just wakes up as like she's not here yeah isn't in on it isn't it doesn't know what's going on and basically they find out that jennifer was at daniel's house and and the whole lie comes down or the whole house of lies the whole house of cards starring kevin spacey comes down um it all becomes a house of cards so basically she has to confess she never volunteered and at the hospital for sick children.

[571] She didn't, she wasn't in the pharmacology program, and that she had been staying at Daniels' house.

[572] She actually didn't mention that she'd never graduated from high school.

[573] And that her time at Ryerson University was fake.

[574] So I didn't admit to any of that.

[575] She only, she got out what she could.

[576] Of course, Han lost his fucking shit.

[577] Sure.

[578] The dad went crazy.

[579] Bick had to convince him to let her, remain in the house and they basically said if you it's him it's Daniel Wong or it's us and if you go with him you can never come back to this house again so then she basically had to break up with Daniel Wong because she didn't know where to go or what to do so and they take away her cell phone and her laptop for two weeks and then after that they tell her we're going to check your messages anytime we want to make sure you're not interacting with him and she's an adult now she's like 25.

[580] Oh my God.

[581] So she's, yeah, it's not a, it's crazy.

[582] Yeah.

[583] So she finishes up just that she takes a calculus class, finished, gets her high school, like GED or whatever.

[584] She, so basically her parents encourage her to apply for college for real.

[585] She makes money as being a piano teacher part time.

[586] And basically she can't go anywhere except for university or piano lessons um this so she's 24 i said that so um when she breaks up with daniel this time says i can't see you anymore because i'll get kicked out forever he's like fine like i can't take it anymore anyway he starts dating somebody else uh -oh and they fall in love oh no and of course jennifer doesn't handle it well she falls into a deep depression she attempts suicide.

[587] And at one point, she tells Daniel that some men had home invaded their house and had gang raped her.

[588] And then she tells him that his new girlfriend mailed a bullet to her as a warning to stay away.

[589] She basically insinuated that the new girlfriend, this was all her plan to attack Jennifer.

[590] Yeah.

[591] So somehow that story works.

[592] Okay.

[593] Because they end up getting back together.

[594] Well, is she a really good liar at this point?

[595] I think she must be in the, like, that 911 call is so believable.

[596] I would have never doubted her.

[597] And I'm sure in a way, she was really, I mean, her parents were just attacked.

[598] So I don't think she's a completely cold, like, sociopath or psychopath, but, but, but, um.

[599] She's been lying for fucking 15 years.

[600] Yeah.

[601] She has to be good at it and used to it, and it's a normal.

[602] It's not keeping her up at night.

[603] yeah it's not and it's like a it's like a normal way to live your life is to start by trying to lie about something yeah that like if you're if you're not getting what you want get that manipulation going because you can't ever get anything kind of the direct way the default is to tell some tell a person what they want to hear yes or like or really play a huge card right so that people go like holy shit stop everything why would anyone lie yeah exactly so basically daniel and daniel is himself is a bit of a he's he has been kicked out of schools he he's a little you know he got caught dealing pot when he went to that Catholic school that they went to together he's a little you know live it on the edge a little bit himself so when they get back together basically together they figure out that her parents life insurance policies would pay out half a million dollars and that she's the beneficiary and so Daniel starts helping her make a plan to have them killed.

[604] Fuck.

[605] Yes.

[606] So he says that he knows a guy named Lennford Crawford, the worst name of all time.

[607] A borderline VC, Andrew's name, Lentford, Crawford.

[608] Daniel calls him Homeboy.

[609] They start setting up a thing where, like, she has a separate SIM card and iPhone, so she can talk to him and make this plan.

[610] Smart.

[611] Nobody finds out.

[612] and basically the plan is when you're done like watching TV for the night unlock the front door so she actually left the front door unlocked then she went upstairs to her room she flicked the lights and the study to give them the signal that it was time her mom had come home from line dancing was watching TV her dad was watching the news in a different room and basically these men came in and the men that that home invaded and basically attempted to kill her father and killed her mother, it was all her doing and completely her set up.

[613] Oh my God.

[614] Yeah.

[615] So, which, you know, it felt like we were getting to that.

[616] It's not the biggest reveal in the world, but it's so sad.

[617] It's so fucking crazy and over the top.

[618] And then basically the third time they bring her.

[619] So the cops, the first time they think they're just getting the story from her, the first interview.

[620] The second interview, they're kind of like, let's talk about this again and go over some details.

[621] It's not matching up almost.

[622] Yeah, and it's always, you know, it's like the family is what's looked at first, always.

[623] Plus the dad was supposed to die, yeah, right?

[624] Yes.

[625] So the dad was supposed to die.

[626] Was the mom supposed to die?

[627] Yes, they both were.

[628] Okay.

[629] Yeah.

[630] Okay.

[631] So essentially the third time, they interrogate her and they use something, I think it was called, I didn't, I didn't write it here, but basically a guy named Jeremy Grimaldi is a journalist in 2016 he published a true crime book about Jennifer called a daughter's deadly deception the Jennifer Pan story and in that he talks about they use this interrogation technique that might not have been above board where they basically trick you into trusting them and then waterboard you it's almost like one guy is good cop and bad cop oh waterboard you and then they just waterboard you wait so the guy is like you trust me you trust me trust me now I'm angry and you need to make me not angry anymore because I'm your friend.

[632] Yes.

[633] Like they lull her into a sense of kind of like she's being talked to like, yes, you're a victim too.

[634] And I bet it was really hard.

[635] Your dad was really mean and strict and whatever.

[636] And then just boom.

[637] And they like, it's like that kind of shock and off thing.

[638] I didn't read the whole thing of, but you can read this book where it talks all about that, how that interview might not have been totally fair.

[639] Oops.

[640] But at the end of the day, she is the person who hired those people.

[641] And essentially, at the trial, her own father took the stand and told the story of what happened.

[642] That was March 19th, 2014.

[643] He basically had to get up on the stand and tell everybody how these men came in and he survived.

[644] When he woke up, after getting shot into the eye, he woke up to his dead wife laying there next to him.

[645] And then, like, got out of the house thinking that everyone had been killed.

[646] Yeah, like, where's my daughter?

[647] Is she okay?

[648] Yeah.

[649] Worried about her too, probably.

[650] Of course.

[651] And then slowly finds out that she's the one behind it.

[652] Horrible.

[653] Oh, my God.

[654] So after 10 months of this trial, Jennifer Pan, Dana Wong, homeboy.

[655] Homeboy, Lendford Crawford.

[656] And this guy's name was David Milveganam man. Mm -hmm.

[657] There's a bunch of Milvaganam.

[658] ma 'am milviganaman um they all got uh they were all convicted for murder and attempted murder and each received a life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years um and then the the third guy eric carty who is the one that tied her to the banister he's tried separately so um there's yeah so basically read karen kaho's article in toronto life magazine jennifer pan's revenge the inside story of a golden the killers she hired and the parents she wanted dead oh my that's the article you're gonna want to really get into because there are pieces of this article and every other article yeah yeah that's what everyone's basing it on Karen Kho's you'll never understand unless you have like been raised in a family like that yeah but there's it's like so strict but then there's people that have had terrible parents they don't have their parents killed it's just that weird turn of like yeah it just stresses me out so bad it's like i've done that exact thing where you're like okay that fucked up now i'm gonna make up a new thing that's gonna get fucked up and i'm gonna do that dumb thing and like the more complicated you make it the the more the worse you're making it for yourself yeah for sure that's a good one dude it's crazo good job thanks that's that is bananas um yeah Vince had a friend she was a comedian from michigan and they went to new york and her name was Joanne and she came from that kind of family where she had been lying to her family they all thought she was going to school to be a dentist and she was actually a comedian and didn't tell any of them and then out of nowhere she fucking jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge yeah and killed herself I remember hearing about that it's just so sad like she just couldn't tell them that she was doing what she actually wanted to do in life yeah it's horrible it's just like such a sad thing to me I can't imagine.

[659] And I bet so sad for the family who think they're applying pressure in just the right way to or or whatever.

[660] They're doing what they know.

[661] Right.

[662] And I'm sure never in a million years is that the result they're looking for.

[663] They'd rather have their daughter as a comedian that, you know, and not what they wanted her to be than what they wanted her to be.

[664] And alive, right?

[665] Of course.

[666] It always made me so sad, even though I didn't know her.

[667] It's so tragic.

[668] Yeah.

[669] I remember a lot of, I mean, a lot of people I know knew her and yeah it was they're really upset about it yeah um all right well okay here's my turn this um this is a timely story because it's a cold case that finally hopefully at this is the end came last week uh -huh but this is a story that i've been interested in it's a 40 one of the 48 hours you know we've all watched it it's really interesting texas monthly i got a lot of this information from the Texas Monthly, which we love Texas Monthly.

[670] The best.

[671] Article called Unholy Act by Pamela Kalloff, C -O -L -O -F.

[672] This is the story of a fucking priest John fight.

[673] And the murder of Irene Garza.

[674] Oh, I don't know this.

[675] Oh, honey.

[676] Oh, shit.

[677] Fucking buckle the fuck up.

[678] Buckle down, baby.

[679] Settle in.

[680] Buckle up.

[681] Hit your foot on the coffee table.

[682] Kick the coffee table as hard as you can.

[683] Kick the coffee table.

[684] Like you have a crush on it.

[685] Okay.

[686] Here we go.

[687] Okay.

[688] So Irene Garza is born in 1934.

[689] She's this dark -haired Hispanic beauty from McAllen, Texas.

[690] It's an agricultural.

[691] Agricultural.

[692] Nope.

[693] Area.

[694] Agricultural.

[695] Agricultural.

[696] Thank you.

[697] area south of texas in the rio grande valley five miles from the u .s mexico border in high school irine had been crowned miss all south texas sweetheart shit and mc allen high school uh where uh you know everyone's fucking white back then she had been the first Hispanic twirler and head drum majorette wow so she was like fucking busting down borders she's this beautiful beauty queen but she's Hispanic so it's you know, a sense of pride that it's, it's, you know, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's not, I mean, Texas, that's like, blonde, big teeth, blue -wise, that's like usually what you're going to get out of a Texas beauty queen.

[698] Right.

[699] And she is, you know, she's not that.

[700] And she's the first in her family to graduate from college, which is a super big deal, huge accomplishment.

[701] So at 25 years old, she worked as a teacher for disadvantaged children, which she took a great pride in.

[702] Some of her students were so poor and came from the neighborhood where she had come from and had been able to get out of that they came to school barefoot.

[703] And Irene spent her first paycheck on buying those children clothes and books.

[704] Yeah.

[705] So she happens to this very day.

[706] Right.

[707] Even worse, I bet.

[708] So she's this really big -hearted, kind person.

[709] She is gorgeous, which isn't a really.

[710] reason why she shouldn't be a victim, but there's just this warmth coming from her and, and, you know, she had a huge future that, uh, that, that, that she earned.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Yeah.

[713] Listen.

[714] Yeah.

[715] Listen.

[716] Look and listen.

[717] Stop it.

[718] At the center of her life, though, is her, uh, devout Catholic faith.

[719] Mm -hmm.

[720] That's like her fucking thing.

[721] On April 16th, 1960, uh, the day before fucking, uh, Easter Sunday.

[722] Oh, okay.

[723] Is Saturday, Easter Saturday called a thing?

[724] It's like, chill out Saturday.

[725] It doesn't sound like it.

[726] It is.

[727] Palm, I don't know.

[728] Chill the fuck out Saturday the day before Easter.

[729] Well, go ahead.

[730] Well, good Friday.

[731] Good Friday.

[732] Good Friday is when he went up on that cross.

[733] Okay.

[734] It might be the ascension.

[735] I don't know.

[736] He chilled out on Saturday.

[737] He got rolled on up and then that tomb.

[738] Yeah.

[739] And then he was risen on Sunday.

[740] Yeah, but Saturday he just hung out.

[741] Well, Saturday was all up in that tomb.

[742] Yeah.

[743] People thinking he's dead.

[744] It's over.

[745] And he was like, you know what?

[746] I'm in a high.

[747] Okay, I'm not going to get sacrilegious here.

[748] We already have.

[749] It's real mad at me. It's so sad because I've had this shit drummed into my head, but then of course, well, it would be impressive.

[750] I can't pull it out.

[751] But here's the thing.

[752] And today's the first night of Hanukkah.

[753] We rebelled against it because we hated it so much.

[754] So everything was drummed in her head.

[755] We're like, fuck you.

[756] I'm not remembering this.

[757] Yeah.

[758] And now we don't, now we just don't know things.

[759] Now just the guilt remains.

[760] The guilt and the ignorance.

[761] And the really good songs.

[762] Oh, yeah.

[763] I got a bunch of those.

[764] Peace is flowing like a river.

[765] Anytime you want me to sing it to, I will.

[766] Okay.

[767] Okay.

[768] Barohita.

[769] Let's fucking do this.

[770] Name a prayer.

[771] Okay.

[772] Okay.

[773] So, on April 16th, fucking lazy Saturday.

[774] 1960.

[775] Irene borrows, she's 25, She borrows her family car to drive to their church, sacred heart church, where she plans to go to confession.

[776] She leaves around 6 .30 that evening.

[777] She's like, mom, I'll be back.

[778] A bunch of witnesses see her get to church.

[779] Everyone's in line for confession.

[780] She gets in line as well.

[781] But no one sees her leave that church that day.

[782] She never came home that night.

[783] And the next morning, Easter Sunday.

[784] That's right.

[785] As you know.

[786] He is truly risen.

[787] He rises.

[788] And her car is still parked.

[789] down the street from Sacred Heart.

[790] The first clue comes two days later when one of Irene's high -heeled shoes is spotted by the side of the road and 300 yards from there is her purse that looks as if someone had like thrown it out the window of a passing car, there's no fingerprints on it.

[791] This crazy huge search ensues including they drag derogation canals, they go house -to -house through the town, border patrol planes go fucking circling.

[792] 65 National Guardsmen are called out to assist what became at the time the most extensive investigation in Valley history.

[793] Wow.

[794] But it's not until four days later after she disappeared that Irene's body is found floating in a nearby irrigation canal.

[795] She's fully dressed except for her shoes and underwear are missing.

[796] The right side of her face is badly bruised.

[797] She had two black eyes and the autopsy reveals that she had been beaten with a hard object and suffocated.

[798] The state of decomposition suggests that she'd been dead for fewer than four days, so maybe she had been kept somewhere for a day or so and she had been raped while unconscious.

[799] Yeah.

[800] The local newspapers go fucking nuts with rumors and speculation.

[801] Everyone is like being fucking targeted or fingered including this prominent local citizen who had died to a heart attack days after she disappeared, you know, or that had been transients or someone that had a crush on her because she was so beautiful, but she was also, you know, not, she was dating, but not, you know, she was Catholic.

[802] You know what I mean?

[803] You're sure.

[804] Detectives question more than 500 people in the weeks following the murder, but behind the scenes, detectives, they don't talk about this in public and the newspapers don't really talk about this.

[805] They are focusing on a 27 -year -old priest named John Fight.

[806] What?

[807] Yeah.

[808] A priest.

[809] Okay.

[810] Fight, it's F -E -I -T, had recently finished his seminary training in San Antonio, and his name kept turning up in their investigation.

[811] So he had recently come into town.

[812] He was bright and well, he was bright and well -mannered.

[813] He had dark hair and horned, glasses.

[814] He looked like he'd be in Weezer.

[815] You know what I'm saying?

[816] Yes.

[817] Yeah.

[818] He struck parishioners, though, as aloof and a bit of a loner and seemed to ambit.

[819] about his vocation when he was asked why he had joined the priesthood he said I just want to give it a try I'm fucking sorry but if God isn't in that sentence or Jesus some fucking you can't say that out loud is was he new to Catholicism you got to like be in it to win it like if anyone asked either of us why we wanted to do true crime podcast it'd be like a passionate plea of how interested in fucking crime we are that's right and we're not and talking talking talking to god right mostly talking but also like to not it's almost that very glib flippant thing of cocky like it's here's my funny joke and like really it's none of your business right is what he's saying right which you're not supposed to say to anyone who's asking you is like being earnest and being like tell me I want to connect to you you're a priest I'm looking for some fucking guidance and some wisdom can I get a fucking amen please there you go on the night of irene's disappearance father of fight had heard confessions and taken part in a midnight mass he'd also admitted to his superiors that he had met privately with irene in the church rectory and i wrote in parentheses the house because i didn't know what a rectory was i thought it was in office the church's office i thought it was you know where he went and wrote out his i thought it was an office well it's a house right It didn't know that.

[820] It's the priest house, but it's connected to the church.

[821] So it kind of is like an office.

[822] Do all the priests live there or just the one like head priest?

[823] It's kind of like case by case.

[824] Like in my hometown, St. Vincent's, they live at the rectory.

[825] But you can also go there like at my mom's funeral.

[826] We went to talk to the priest in the rectory, like in a downstairs office.

[827] Doesn't rectory sound like it should be like a side room office?

[828] Well, it sounds like factory where they're just turning out Jesus.

[829] statues all day and night but that but I mean I think it's like it's basically um you know the church hall is where people like have their you know Sunday coffee clashes or whatever the rectory is where you'd go and you're like we need to plan a funeral we need to plan a wedding this there's some serious shit happening here this the business and then upstairs the priests live and then it's the busy bodies next door making second I was going to say cuggle but they don't know Cougall.

[830] No, they actually, they ban Cougall long ago.

[831] All right, I get it.

[832] So the rectory is, okay.

[833] And that was viewed by other priests as really inappropriate to take anyone, especially a fucking hot 25 year old, lovely woman.

[834] All right.

[835] So.

[836] Well, yeah, because unless she has called, like, if it was a parish business, she would have called like the lady, the lady that runs the office and been like, I need to make an appointment.

[837] But this was for confession specifically.

[838] Oh, yeah, no, you do that in the confession booth there's a there's a booth that is titled for the thing she was doing they had people build it right into the church so people specifically you can sit there and pray and then look at people getting confession uh -huh that's the whole idea of confession well he took her to the rectory gross pass okay yeah it's it's problematic yes it is also several churchgoers who stood in his confession line which had fucking stalled out because he fucking picked her out and took her to the rectory Oh, that night told detectives that he seemed to have been absent from the sanctuary for long periods of time.

[839] And another priest's father, John O 'Brien, reported seeing scratches on his hands when they drank coffee together at midnight mass. Ooh.

[840] Uh -huh.

[841] Uh -huh.

[842] Then detectives learned that on March 23rd, so that's three weeks before Irene disappeared and her body was found, that a woman had been attacked at a Catholic church 12 miles from that church the one where Irene went to 12 miles away 20 -year -old college student Maria America Guerrera had visited Sacred Heart Church in Edinburgh and noticed a young man with dark hair and hornroom glasses wheezer sitting alone in one of the back pews and in her mind she was like that I think she had an immediate reaction to him he made me nervous but she was like calm down Maria you're in the church you're in the fucking house of God nothing can go wrong right you know she said her guard down, which is totally understandable.

[843] In a church, of course.

[844] In a church.

[845] Yeah.

[846] When she went to the altar and knelt at the communion rail, a man grabbed her from behind and tried to put a rag over her mouth.

[847] Holy shit.

[848] Yeah.

[849] She fucking fought the shit out of him.

[850] And when he put his hand back over her mouth to silence her because she was screaming, she bit the shit out of his fingers until he drew blood.

[851] She drew blood.

[852] Yes.

[853] You know what I'm saying.

[854] Yep.

[855] She ran out the side door of the church.

[856] She escaped.

[857] And in her sworn statement, she said that she thought her attacker was a priest that was the first feeling she got, which was very controversial.

[858] Yes.

[859] You know what I'm saying?

[860] I bet because this is the 50s or the 60s.

[861] This is like, this is 1960s.

[862] So we're technically still in the 50s.

[863] So I wrote about this, that this is a long time before the sexual allegations against priests started to come out and people believed them.

[864] This wasn't until the 90s that these allegations came out against priests sexually amassing children.

[865] And it wasn't even until way later that people believed them.

[866] Well, and, of course, a horrible document.

[867] I mean, amazing documentary.

[868] I wrote this down.

[869] There is, is it the, um, it's, uh, deliver us from evil.

[870] And there's a guy in it that talks about when he got molested by a priest, right, being driven in the police, the priest's car, because they, he didn't have a dad.

[871] And so he's like, I'll take him out to ice cream or whatever, gets molested in the priest's car.

[872] The priest drops him off.

[873] He walks into the house, says to the mom, what just happened.

[874] The mother slaps him across the face and says, dare you ever say that and then the priest continues visiting their house for years to come it's the most upsetting it's just children against adults and there's no everyone's like no fucking way it's not even children against adults it's children against god's chosen people and these highly religious people which i don't completely understand which is why i was excited to talk to you about this because you were raised catholic they're infallible yeah are in fact And you talking badly against a priest is talking badly against Jesus fucking Christ.

[875] That's right.

[876] Right.

[877] It's this, it's like pre -Vatican 2 shit where it's like, it's old, like when the popes used to control everybody and they were the richest people and they fuck anything they wanted.

[878] And it was just all about power and money.

[879] And basically these, yeah, this is why people who were pedophiles went into the priesthood.

[880] Because they went in with carte blanche.

[881] not saying that Catholicism is bad religion, that priests are bad people, that any, you know, we're not, I'm not talking shit on any of this.

[882] It's just this reality of a, of a really bad period that happened that, uh, we need to acknowledge.

[883] Well, yeah.

[884] And I mean, I think at this point, it's so been acknowledged.

[885] Most of the people that I know that are good Catholics and that are faith -based, like they don't, they, they still believe in, they have a relationship with God and a spirituality.

[886] But most of the adults that I know, because of the stuff that's happened in the Catholic Church are incredible.

[887] And I don't just mean like people my age.

[888] I mean like people my parents age that are just so, it's like you can't look at that power structure and go, this should continue.

[889] This is going great.

[890] They've handled stuff great.

[891] And it should continue.

[892] There's there are very few people that feel that way.

[893] Right.

[894] Because it's just so, what a horrible thing.

[895] You can't give people absolute power like that.

[896] No. No, not at all.

[897] Especially that access, that access to families.

[898] But I have to say this too.

[899] Like there are priests in my in St. Vincent's that are some of the best people I've ever met.

[900] Absolutely.

[901] And it's just that kind of like, it's almost like the bad ones steal the good, the goodwill from the good ones.

[902] Definitely.

[903] Um, because those ones, it's like what, what a great effect they have on people's lives.

[904] Yes.

[905] That's how it all works.

[906] Definitely.

[907] Um, so, so, da -da -da -da -da.

[908] Okay.

[909] So, yeah, so this is way before any of these things came to light.

[910] So at Sunday Mass, after Ayurne's funeral, just to show you how protected priests were, the priest told the congregation that he knew there were rumors that a priest was involved in Irene's murder.

[911] And he said, quote, it is impossible that a priest would commit a crime like this.

[912] Don't speak of it.

[913] Don't even let yourself think it.

[914] He said that himself.

[915] To the congregation.

[916] Uh -huh.

[917] Yeah.

[918] Right?

[919] In late April, uh, detects.

[920] drain the irrigation canal where they had found Irene's body.

[921] And on the bottom was a light green Eastman Cota slide viewer with a long black cord.

[922] So like a slide viewer.

[923] Yeah, like a picture viewer.

[924] Like one of these?

[925] Chiching, to the wall.

[926] Oh, okay.

[927] Like a slide show thing.

[928] Yeah.

[929] We call those Cota slide viewers at our house.

[930] You know.

[931] There is a photo of it online if you look it up.

[932] I mean, like, of the actual one.

[933] So it's got long cord on it.

[934] It's at the bottom of the irrigation canal where they think her body was thrown in, really close to her.

[935] And they also find a candelabra that belonged to the church.

[936] John Fite is like, oh, yeah, I bought that code of slide thing last summer.

[937] He, like, is like, oh, yeah, that was mine.

[938] And those candelabra, that candelabra belongs to the church.

[939] So what he probably strangled her with and what he probably hit her with a fucking head with is at the bottom of the fucking canal.

[940] and he raises his fucking hand and is like, that's fine.

[941] Wow.

[942] Yeah.

[943] Because kind of in the confidence of knowing no one can do anything about it?

[944] Who fucking, yeah, maybe.

[945] Who knows?

[946] So finally the priest sits down with the detectives in early May. He provides a, of course, meticulous account of his actions on Easter weekend.

[947] He says that he had counseled Irene in the Sacred Heart Rectory.

[948] He said, yeah, I totally did that because she had some information she wanted to give me. That was private.

[949] So I brought her, that's why I brought her in there.

[950] because the confession booth which is a muffled closet that no one can hear from the outside of wasn't private enough she could only scream her confession is the problem Jesus no he saw her leave though at whatever time and then he had these like dumb excuses for why he had cuts on his hand and he's like and goodbye polygraph tests implicate him in both Irene's murder and the attack on Maria Guerrera a couple weeks earlier.

[951] And in August, Father Fight is indicted for assault with intent to rape Maria Guerrera.

[952] Oh, shit.

[953] Yeah.

[954] The jury, though, motherfucking deadlocks.

[955] And the proceedings end in a mistrial.

[956] And so rather than face a second trial, uh, in 1962, Father Fight pleads no contest to reduce charges of aggravated assault.

[957] Gets fine $500.

[958] And that's it.

[959] Mm -hmm.

[960] Mm -hmm.

[961] Takes that right out of the, uh...

[962] Goodbye.

[963] He takes it right out of the church, the bucket.

[964] What do they call it?

[965] The, uh, collection place.

[966] And I'm losing all of my terminology.

[967] There you go.

[968] I mean, Jesus Christ.

[969] That's the guy.

[970] Jesus Christ.

[971] He's like, can't, Jesus can see and hear you if you're trying to rate people in church.

[972] Clearly.

[973] You fucking lunatic.

[974] So it's now alleged that the district attorney, that the district attorney at the time and church leaders cut a deal.

[975] to stop the investigation into John Fight to protect the reputation of the church.

[976] Also, most elected officials at the time in the, it's the Hildigo County were Catholic, mostly elected leaders.

[977] Yeah.

[978] And it was at a time when none other than fucking Senator John F. Kennedy is running for the president that year, who is a fucking Catholic.

[979] That's right.

[980] It's, he's, there's never been a Catholic president before.

[981] he's the there's only one other Catholic that had ever been a nominee for president oh and one of the major parties he had lost so and and like was it Dewey I don't remember I didn't even write it no I that wasn't an honest question I wouldn't have known oh um an anti -catholic prejudice is fucking big time so they're like we need Kennedy to win we're all fucking Catholics and let's not give them a reason to hate Catholics oh okay so like political reasons.

[982] Yeah, including JFK being fucking elected.

[983] Wow.

[984] And like, you know, it's Texas.

[985] It's a big fucking place.

[986] God, that's so funny to think.

[987] I just always, it's just my own weird bias.

[988] Like I, I used to think everyone was Catholic.

[989] When I was a kid, that I just assumed everyone was Catholic.

[990] Was there a lot of Catholic?

[991] Well, you went to a Catholic school.

[992] I went to Catholic school, but also our town was just small and mostly Christian.

[993] Although, then later on, I learned that there was a big bunch of.

[994] Petaluma was like one of the biggest receivers of, of immigrants after World War II of Jewish people who are running from the war.

[995] Refugees.

[996] Thank you.

[997] Where do they live now?

[998] They still live there.

[999] There's Jewish, a lot of Jews people?

[1000] There's a couple of temples in Petaluma.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] Okay.

[1003] Because I think one or two of the family had like chicken farms so they're like everybody go out and work on the go work on the chicken ranch very cool yeah yeah interesting that could be a lie not no nope you said it no i believe it i'm almost positive i read that somewhere it's true it feels so true it feels really good in my heart great okay so basically that means no murder charges are ever filed against father fight and shortly after the killing the church transfers him to a far away monastery so in the 60s he spent some time at a treatment center for troubled priests in New Mexico and at monasteries in multiple states hold hold the phone please I will not I want to go to a treatment center for troubled priests and kick them all in the dick right the horror movie that needs to be written out of that I mean like the children come and attack and kill them all oh my god it's like children of the corn but at a fucking monastery for troubled quote troubled Trouble priests, where it's revenge.

[1004] The children come out of the fields.

[1005] It's called you're in trouble.

[1006] You're in trouble.

[1007] You're in trouble.

[1008] I heard what you did this past summer.

[1009] Right.

[1010] Said Jesus.

[1011] Said Jesus to the Lord.

[1012] That's fucked up.

[1013] Who, everyone in that neighborhood where that place was, it's just like move away.

[1014] Well, remember when we watched what was the really great documentary on Netflix over the summer?

[1015] The Keepers?

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] And they, and he went and visited the house where all of the priests had gotten sent to.

[1018] And they lived and they were all child molesters and shit.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Keepers is still fucking great.

[1021] Everyone should watch it.

[1022] It's so good.

[1023] Listen, if you want to have a binge weekend of terrible shit, you should watch, deliver us from evil, which you just need to, you need to watch.

[1024] It's historical information that you need to know about.

[1025] It's just fucking life lessons.

[1026] And you just need to, like, calm your pessimism a little bit.

[1027] optimism I'm gonna say well it also there's it's that thing of it feels like a very new cultural thing where it's like everybody's got to get real with the fact that that true sociopaths and psychopaths move in this world in exactly these unexpected ways they are baseball coaches they are priests they move into their they're they're they manipulate yes and they're good at it they're good at you're not and you need to get okay with that yes you got you got to if you're single parent you got to keep your eye double peeled you got to triple check all the people that want to be in your child's life all that stuff which we're saying that to people who know it by heart I mean like that yeah but you forget that shit man like when it's you and your people and this you know a guy you're dating yeah of course it's fine you know what I mean it's like of course you don't think about it in terms of your own life you think about it outside of you yes it's just so it's I remember reading that Sports Illustrated thing about how many football coaches, like little league coaches were pedophiles.

[1028] And it's just the most frightening and insane thing.

[1029] Wait, what?

[1030] I want to read that.

[1031] You got to read it.

[1032] It's insane.

[1033] I'm pretty sure was it the cover sports illustrated like 10 years ago.

[1034] Oh my God, I need to read that.

[1035] It's so crazy because it's then they're they're in the lives.

[1036] They're right there with all the sports and everything's dude and sports and couldn't be safer.

[1037] And games and we need to go to this and practices and then they then that's how they select the ones who don't have anybody that's going to come and beat the shit out of them if they do anything to the kid they like that's how they spot vulnerable children and people who are i mean it's just the most fucked up thing very awful um also okay also the movie spotlight which came out recently amazing is about that too so watch so have a nice binge weekend oh and then watch bobs burgers oh my god to get yourself to feel better yes big mouth is amazing big mouth so good okay blah blah blah da da da new mexico monasteries oh oh Here's fun.

[1038] At one point, here's fun.

[1039] Here's fun.

[1040] Here's fun.

[1041] At one point, he served as a supervisor charged with clearing priests for assignments to churches.

[1042] So the priest who got sent to the fucking, you're a terrible person, get out of this town, they're going to fucking murder you.

[1043] Yeah, the attempted rapist priest.

[1044] They sent him to these places in his monasteries.

[1045] And our fucking friend, John Fite, was on the fucking clearinghouse to let them go back into the goddamn world.

[1046] Good.

[1047] This motherfucker.

[1048] Healthy.

[1049] just good decisions all around being made everybody at every level we have one open seat who should we fill with john fight wait is the devil not available okay then right so one of the men that he held clear for parish was james porter who isn't the guy from deliver us from evil but could be a child molester convicted of assaulting more than a hundred victims who was a priest he was like get him back in there you're in the game you're fucking Dick.

[1050] Okay.

[1051] John Fight left the priesthood in 1972 and moved to Phoenix, worked as an insurance salesman, got married, had kids, and grandkids, lives a fucking normal goddamn life.

[1052] Whoa.

[1053] Meanwhile, Irene's parents, Nick and Josephina Garza, they both passed away in the 90s without ever seeing anyone prosecuted for Irene's murder.

[1054] But they were assured by people in the church that father fight, who they always fucking suspected, would be punished by the church if they found out anything had been done.

[1055] And they were assured that this was a bigger sentence handed than any court could hand down.

[1056] And so they're like, okay, great, because they still fucking believe in the Catholic Church, because they were fucking Catholics.

[1057] Well, yeah.

[1058] So, April 2002, let's jump ahead.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] All right.

[1061] Good.

[1062] Forty -two years after the murder of Irene Garza, a former monk named Dale Tashney who had left the priesthood more than 30 years earlier to marry, suddenly he gets a fucking conscience.

[1063] He says that in the summer of 1963, he was asked to counsel John Fight while John stayed at the monastery where this guy, Dale, was a fucking priest monk.

[1064] During their six months of counseling, John Fight told Tashney of the night that Irene died.

[1065] This guy called the fucking investigator and was like, let me tell you something.

[1066] He told him that Father Fight had asked her to come to the church rectory, had heard her confession, and had heard her confession.

[1067] And after the confession, he had restrained Irene, maybe bound and gagged her.

[1068] He had fondled her breasts.

[1069] And before he returned to the sanctuary to hear confessions, he had moved her to the rectory basement.

[1070] And later that evening, he moved her to another location.

[1071] Then on Easter Sunday, so she's still alive, then on Easter Sunday, he put Irene in a bathtub and placed a bag over her head, and as he was leaving the bathroom, he heard her say, I can't breathe, I can't breathe.

[1072] And then Tashne said, when he came back later on that day or early evening, he found her dead in the bathtub.

[1073] And then that night, he put her in a car and took her and dropped her off her.

[1074] along a roadside where there was a canal.

[1075] Tashney had kept it to himself out of a sense of religious obligation for more than four decades.

[1076] He didn't tell anyone.

[1077] It's like he confessed to him and you can't.

[1078] In terms of being a priest that hears confession, you're not allowed to repeat it.

[1079] I mean, I feel so grateful that he came forward and said stuff, but at the same time, it's like, someone this person this man murdered this woman it doesn't that's then that's not a priest then that's not a priest anymore the man who murdered someone is not doesn't get to have that no but everybody gets it it's not just for priests it's that's the let that's like they're talking to god through you and you don't get to intervene yeah because they're asking for forgiveness and so you have to be that no matter what somebody says to you as a priest you have to say you're forgiven he was counseling him So it wasn't confession.

[1080] I mean, I don't know if technically, yeah.

[1081] Well, I bet you they'd say it was just for the protection.

[1082] Right.

[1083] But the other thing is, wasn't she found brutally beaten?

[1084] Yeah.

[1085] So that's bullshit, right?

[1086] She was beaten and raped while unconscious.

[1087] So clearly he left some shit out.

[1088] Or they just tell you everything in this article.

[1089] Yeah, yeah.

[1090] It's too much.

[1091] But I would bet you that, like, he's basically saying, well, I just did a couple of things.

[1092] I walked away and she died.

[1093] And then she's, I mean, it's unfortunate.

[1094] Like, he's basically.

[1095] telling the story to this other priest, like, too bad that happened as opposed to you finally fucking attack this woman.

[1096] Well, one of the things that Tashney said was he didn't show what I would consider to be compunction or sorrow or grief or anything like that.

[1097] So he had kept into himself.

[1098] And then at this point in 2002, he's in his 70s and he had a change of heart.

[1099] And he was like, I'll fucking testify.

[1100] Like, let's do this.

[1101] Wow.

[1102] Which is incredible.

[1103] So Texas Rangers then begin to re -investigate the case when he's contacted, Fight, who's now 69 -year -olds, says that man doesn't exist anymore, and he won't say anything else.

[1104] Like the men who raped and murdered a woman?

[1105] Uh -huh.

[1106] Yeah, he does do.

[1107] Yeah, he does.

[1108] Sorry, he's in you.

[1109] So Rangers also interviewed Father O 'Brien, who back then was like, I saw scratches on his hands.

[1110] And he tells the Rangers that a few months after the murder, fight, uh, he says.

[1111] He had confronted a fight about whether he had killed Irene and the priest had told him everything.

[1112] So he too was like, yep, I know everything.

[1113] I'll fucking testify.

[1114] Oh, shit.

[1115] And yeah, he'll tell everything.

[1116] And I would say this too.

[1117] This was back, I think that people very rarely broke that.

[1118] Like, if I'm telling you, if I'm giving you confession, you're like basically you have to forgive me the end.

[1119] You don't get to say anything.

[1120] That's in like, you know, police TV shows all the time.

[1121] Is that not true anymore?

[1122] Well, no, I'm saying, I think back then no one would ever break it, whereas nowadays, I think it's like now everyone's seeing the reason that that rule was put into place maybe not have been for the best reasons.

[1123] Right.

[1124] Or that there were many more people that would exploit it than anyone would expect.

[1125] Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[1126] Am I getting Catholic defensive?

[1127] Sorry.

[1128] That's okay.

[1129] So then in July 2002, the Brownsville Herald ran a front page story on Irene's murder.

[1130] and the suspicion about John Fight.

[1131] And so Hildigo County District Attorney Renee Guerrera was asked if he planned to pursue an indictment in the case because they were like, we have all this fucking evidence now, including two people who he told murdered Irene and they're willing to testify.

[1132] And this guy, Renee, was like, can it be said, quote, can it be solved?

[1133] Well, I guess if you believe that pigs can fly, anything is possible.

[1134] And then he said, why would anyone be haunted by her death?

[1135] She died.

[1136] Her killer got away.

[1137] So he fucking flippantly...

[1138] Who is this guy?

[1139] This guy, Rene Guerrera.

[1140] He's a fucking Hildigo.

[1141] No, wait.

[1142] Hidalgo?

[1143] Thank you.

[1144] Oh, my God.

[1145] I only say that because of the movie starring Vigo Mortensen about him and his horse.

[1146] Hidalgo.

[1147] Hidalgo, yeah.

[1148] Thank you, Jesus.

[1149] Yeah.

[1150] So at the time.

[1151] So then he got all this negative publicity and he's like, okay, fine.

[1152] Sorry, he was the prosecutor, though?

[1153] He was the district attorney.

[1154] Oh, okay, okay.

[1155] So he got all this negative publicity because her fucking family's still alive.

[1156] Her parents aren't, but the rest of her family is like, we fucking care that she died.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] So he, in 2004, he asked, he has two of his prosecutors present the evidence to a grand jury to indict John fight.

[1159] But they don't fucking call either of those priests to testify, the ones who he told that he killed them.

[1160] And so, of course, in 2004, the jury declined to indict him and no billed the case.

[1161] So that was the chance to fucking finally.

[1162] before John Fight dies to get him held responsible for the murder of Irene.

[1163] And those two priests had said that they would testify.

[1164] They wanted to.

[1165] They were waiting by the fucking phone to be called up to testify.

[1166] And they just didn't do it.

[1167] They didn't call them.

[1168] And it turns out, of course, Renee Guerrera was Catholic.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] Right.

[1171] So 10 fucking years later, in 2014, there's a district attorney's race in Hidalgo County.

[1172] And finally, Renee gets beat by Ricardo Rodriguez and in his race he promised he would re -examine the case of elected Oh shit!

[1173] So fucking Ricardo is elected.

[1174] Wow.

[1175] Great.

[1176] They spent a year and two months reexamining the case and all the evidence and more than 57 fucking years after the murder of Irene Garza, 83 -year -old John Fight is finally fucking arrested in Arizona for first -degree murder.

[1177] Former monk Dale fucking Tashney 88 years old fucking testifies Dang it 88 years old Now when you say monk Does it say anything else About that Him being a monk There's just a photo of him With that hair You know what I'm saying He's got the robes and the hair And you're like oh honey You must have been dedicated Because my God He looks like he's on space walls I'm just trying to figure out What that is If he's like a Christian brother What like his specific deal was i'm sure it's very involved but i don't understand okay i just knew that it was like a monk but he was like but it was like priests were hanging out with him yeah i don't know he's just in a different kind of like set up catholic thing yeah okay maybe he made wine the hair though yeah my god so dale what's up 88 year old dale testifies against him december eighth what's the date today the 12th?

[1178] Yes.

[1179] December, fucking 8th, 2017.

[1180] Fucking four days ago.

[1181] Oh, shit.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] After a six -day trial in the Hidalgo County Courthouse in Edinburgh, a jury fucking convicted John Fight.

[1184] Whoa.

[1185] Now 85 -year -old ex -priest of murdering Irene Garza, and he received a life sentence in prison.

[1186] Oh, my God.

[1187] Yeah, this just fucking came out.

[1188] That's incredible.

[1189] 1960 is when it happened.

[1190] and fucking, what are we, 2017?

[1191] Yeah.

[1192] And she was still alive today.

[1193] Irene would be 83 years old.

[1194] In a letter written to a friend right before she died, she stated that she's happier than she's ever been and said to her friend, remember the last time we talked, I told you I was afraid of death.

[1195] Well, I think I'm cured.

[1196] You see, I've been going to communion in Mass Daily, and you can't imagine the courage and faith and happiness it's given me. Oh.

[1197] And that's the story of the murder of Irene Garza by motherfucker John Fight.

[1198] Wow.

[1199] I can't believe that ended well.

[1200] I know, right?

[1201] It never happens in the Catholic Church.

[1202] Every time it's a Catholic Church story.

[1203] Yeah.

[1204] It frustrates you.

[1205] It disgusts you.

[1206] Well, called cases too.

[1207] Goes crazy.

[1208] So she's like in one of those walkers in court that are also chairs, you know, that you see.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] trying to look all old and he he he a couple things he said when he got arrested were like I don't understand this happened in 1960 like he his excuse of I don't understand this was happening now this was so long ago and this woman says to him there's no statute of limitations on murder like he's trying to play it off like this was so long ago yeah why are you guys making a big deal about yeah exactly he's acting like a confused old man yeah when he's a fucking sexual predator and murderer well also it doesn't matter how old he is it doesn't matter how old he is it doesn't matter what his opinion about it is or that he's a grandpa or whatever it sucks for them is not relevant you you already were confused that's why you're like this so you your opinion about it and how you see it is not valid because according to you no one's life matters right and any woman is some woman who died in 1960 who cares no no people a lot of people care a lot of people care and a lot of people are tired of people like that guy exploiting positions of not just power, but automatic trust.

[1211] Yeah.

[1212] It's that thing.

[1213] That's what's so gross.

[1214] Can you imagine going into a church?

[1215] Or like, I can't imagine going into a church and getting a creepy vibe of like, oh, no, the guy that works here is scaring me. Yeah.

[1216] That's the exact opposite of how churches are supposed to work.

[1217] Well, there should be no such thing as automatic trust.

[1218] I mean, it sucks.

[1219] But even, you know, you're fucking pediatrician or you're fucking.

[1220] you know your um what's it called anything there's just there's no such thing anymore right and there never was we just let it happen right yeah it's it's okay to be just be aware be careful and thank god for the internet and checky checky check everyone's fucking everything record yeah wow that's amazing yeah such a good story thank you um um um um um Hi.

[1221] That was intense episode.

[1222] I know.

[1223] Yeah, there's a lot of feelings.

[1224] What, uh, anything good this week for you?

[1225] I guess it was so fun to do those live shows.

[1226] We had, I had such a good time.

[1227] You can say we.

[1228] I did too.

[1229] Speaking for you.

[1230] But like, it's just such a joy to have that be a job.

[1231] It's insane.

[1232] Because I'm always prepared.

[1233] Like, I really hate leaving my house and I hate leaving my dogs and I get a little stressy for that but it's always just that we have so much fun and then there's people that just like give us really nice presence and say really nice things I one thing like I guess gets me is a lot of people talk to me about my mom yeah and it's like it's brought up a lot of like it's young women who are like I'm a psych nurse yeah I'm studying to be a nurse but there's a lot of my mom passed away recently too and you really helped me yeah just by talking about it yeah exactly it's it's I don't know it's um you know it's it's cool when we get to go out and hear from people about like the meaning of things because to us it's like I just go oh well I just did a a very interesting murder case in a mediocre manner in our way and then we talked about a bunch of bullshit it's like I don't know it just is very meaningful it's just like such a nice feeling yeah you know we have like lots of friends we don't know as we say at the end of every show it's like we thank you guys for letting us do this as a job the two of us are fucking blown away by the fact that our lives have turned into this incredible thing because of this podcast that we started on a fucking whim it's super weird it's super weird it is and fun we didn't expect this we are in awe of all of you guys who are like these incredible people and people and like showing at like i barely leave my house to do anything so like when i stand there and like it's like a theater full of people who have all like went and bought tickets and showed up and some have signs and some have uh it's just crazy funny shirts they made yeah cookies and crafts and mugs yeah it's just really i just feel super lucky every time we come home from a trip or anytime we go on a fucking trip for the show it's it's mind -boggling yeah it's so fun and uh Yeah, so I think we're about to end the year with 100th episode.

[1234] Yes.

[1235] So I guess maybe it's just thank you guys for letting us do this incredible thing.

[1236] This year has been fucking bananas and awesome and we're honored.

[1237] It's incredible.

[1238] It's beautiful.

[1239] We fucking appreciate it so much.

[1240] You really do.

[1241] And thank you.

[1242] Thanks for, I don't know.

[1243] Thanks for being, thanks for, thanks for liking it.

[1244] Yeah.

[1245] It's weird.

[1246] It is.

[1247] What's your thing?

[1248] That's the same thing?

[1249] I'm going to go samsies.

[1250] Share.

[1251] Are we going to do sharesors?

[1252] We're going to shame it.

[1253] We're going to shame it.

[1254] Shame share.

[1255] Okay, cool.

[1256] I love it.

[1257] I do too.

[1258] Well, then stay sexy.

[1259] And don't get murdered.

[1260] Goodbye.

[1261] Want a cookie?

[1262] That was a definitive yes.

[1263] You want a cookie?

[1264] A cookie?

[1265] A cookie?