JRE MMA Show #97 with Henry Cejudo

[0] Henry Sahudo.

[1] How are you, sir?

[2] I'm doing good, Joe.

[3] Good to see, man. Thank you for having me. What does it feel like?

[4] What does it feel like having stepped back?

[5] You step away.

[6] You get to look at it from a fresh perspective.

[7] What does this feel like?

[8] It feels good, man. It feels, I think the biggest thing with me, Joe, is there's satisfaction in my life.

[9] You know what I'm saying?

[10] I've done so much in the sport.

[11] And I can compare myself a little bit to Daniel.

[12] You know, if Daniel would have beat.

[13] Steppe Miochik, and he would have retired on top.

[14] Like, he could almost say retired at the two -division world champ.

[15] And I don't feel like I have that chip on my shoulder.

[16] You know, as a wrestler, I retired from the Olympics at a very young age.

[17] You know, I decided to come back three years later, but, you know what I mean?

[18] It was already done.

[19] You know what I mean?

[20] They retired at the age of 21.

[21] And then now at the age of 33, I'm truly calling it quits unless there's a couple of fights that if I do come back.

[22] I like that word unless.

[23] I like that word.

[24] Yeah, and as you know, and a little bit, it's, before it was about the money a little bit with the UFC.

[25] And obviously, you know, everybody does have a price.

[26] But I think there's, there's a fight that I would really like in the USC, and that would be against Alexander Volcanowski.

[27] Really?

[28] Yeah, at 45.

[29] At 45.

[30] If they're to give me an opportunity to go up and obviously be compensated, then that would be a fight that would really, that would really wake me up in the morning.

[31] be like, hey, man, this is a challenge.

[32] This is a whole new mountain, you know.

[33] A chance to be a three -division world champion.

[34] A chance to be a three -division world champion.

[35] As you know, a lot of people have counted me out against Demetris, against T .J., against Marlon.

[36] Maybe it was you, too, Joe.

[37] No, no, no, no, no. And I think that's what I love about it.

[38] You can't find any evidence of me counting you out, sir.

[39] Never.

[40] So I loved that.

[41] I love challenges.

[42] Since I was a kid, I knew I knew I was different.

[43] I knew I was special.

[44] and these are the things what is it that you knew like what what separates you oh my god i think it's i think it's a couple things if i was to explain it to you like what's what's made me successful and and i've seen it you know being at the olympic training center as a high school kid and living out there for four years and that's actually where i met daniel you know i was a 16 year old kid when i first met these guys and i was able to analyze a lot of the greats like you know uh stephen abbis daniel core me a lot of the olympic team and uh what i've learned now that the age of 33 I learned that there's been two things that have separated me from from the rest of the pact it's it's it's it's two things is what I call heart and ability and I was actually able to tell this story to to Chatri the the father and CEO of one FC and uh you know so it's two things I call it heart and ability what is your heart your heart is your passion your will your desire your determination your heart is something that you're willing to suffer for in order to obtain now the next one is Ability.

[45] You know, ability is a gift that you have since, you know, it's a coordination.

[46] It's something that you've repped over time where you become a master at it.

[47] And what happens is a lot of time.

[48] I always tell people, it's good to question one or the other.

[49] It's good to question the mind.

[50] I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the heart or the ability because to be the one percent of the one percent is like both these things have to match.

[51] What happens is a lot of people have heart, but their ability is like way down here.

[52] You know, their ability doesn't.

[53] match their heart or their abilities up here and they're just a little lazy and can't really put the you know because there is a separation between mind and body and your job is to connect them both and I'm going to use an example with Marlon Mariahs you saw me getting my ass kicked you saw me getting late kicked you know from the first to all the way to the second round but I knew that I had to connect and make that transition that was a combination of combined the heart and the ability you know So I was able to kind of, so what's separated me, I'd say that.

[54] I think it's being gifted through the ability and then just having a passion or will that's just second to none.

[55] There's a lot of other factors, though, isn't that?

[56] There's like not just ability.

[57] It's also you have to be coached by someone who really knows what they're doing.

[58] There's so many guys out there that are really tough and they have will and they work out hard and they're in shape, but they just make technical mistakes.

[59] and they've never corrected those mistakes.

[60] Yeah.

[61] Well, I think that also goes back on the ability.

[62] I would put that into the ability portion.

[63] The reason why is because you've got to put yourself in the right situations.

[64] Like, I didn't start winning until I let go of my coaches.

[65] The first time I lost to Demetrius Johnson, it was, man, it was hard, and this sounds very crazy and cynical, but it was kind of hard to blame myself.

[66] Even though I was training because I knew coming from the Olympic sport, that I had a coach that could take me to the top and there was no ifs or what.

[67] Like, I knew he knew the recipe.

[68] And then May was still a fairly new, and it's still a fairly new sport.

[69] So I knew that I had to find the professors.

[70] I knew that I had to find the scientists and all this together in order for me to become that perfect storm.

[71] So that's exactly what we did, you know, putting the science, the recovery, find the right coaches, listening to my ability, understanding my bowel mechanics.

[72] Like it was a mixture of all these things that's made, that's separated me from the first time I fought Demetrius to just being a legend killer, man, to beating all these guys that they said that, you know, Demetius, Johnson, T .J., you know, Marlon Mariah's Dominic Cruz, man. That's a hell of a list, Joe.

[73] It's a hell of a list.

[74] You know, that's a hell of a list, man. It's one of the reasons why it bums me out that you retired.

[75] Like, I'm conflicting feelings.

[76] One, I'm happy.

[77] I'm happy, you're retired.

[78] Young and healthy.

[79] And you could do anything you want, man. I really believe a guy who can accomplish what you accomplished inside.

[80] of the octagon and also winning an Olympic gold medalist.

[81] You're winning an Olympic gold medal in wrestling at 21 years old, retiring from the sport, then getting into MMA, becoming a two -division world champion in MMA, and then stepping away while you're still healthy and at the peak of your abilities.

[82] Part of me loves that.

[83] I love the fact that you did what you wanted to do, and then you step away.

[84] But part of me looks back at, like, say, when you fought Benavides, or say when you fought Demetrius the first time, and then it looks at you now.

[85] Like, you're a completely different animal.

[86] Nobody had been able to shut down Dominic Cruz's footwork game, but you came in and just chopped the shit out of his legs, just right off the bat.

[87] Whatever advantage we thought that he would have with his footwork and movement was actually becoming a disadvantage, because you were using that against him.

[88] You found the angles, and you found the perfect times to attack his legs, and then you put him away, which is also something no one's ever done before, except Uriah caught him in a submission.

[89] and finished them, but no one has ever put them away the way you did.

[90] Yeah, and I think it's all about game planning.

[91] I think people, you know, I think the ability that I have, too, that separates me too, is the fact that I'm, watch all my fights, man. I fight everybody different.

[92] Like, I really do, man. There's times where I have to use wrestling as I did with the Beatrice.

[93] Well, the Wilson Hayes fight's a great example.

[94] You came out like a karate guy.

[95] Yeah.

[96] I was like, holy shit, look at this.

[97] You were like, Wonder Boy, sideways stance, like hands down.

[98] You really fought like a karate guy.

[99] And then when you caught him with that straight punch and dropped him, I was like, look at this shit.

[100] This is crazy.

[101] Like you fought a different style.

[102] Yeah, and I think with Dominic, too, just to get back to him, it's in order for you to understand the funk, in order for you understand the funk, like you have to train for the funk.

[103] You know, if you don't train for Dominic, if you think you can just go out there and just fight or train the way you train and try to fight Dominic, you're going to be missing.

[104] So throughout my training camps, like I treated almost.

[105] like a wrestler like a boxer like my training camp like i build a team around me i have a have a mentor actually who's here dave zon who's uh you know who's been helping me to shape he's a businessman but he's been able to help me to form like you know obviously the perfect storm and you know we brought guys in from california that mimic just like domic that were just a little faster than dominic and i knew that i wasn't even trying to touch his face because i knew that he was a hard hit but i also knew that he would leave his legs a lot you know you can you can push your body backwards but your legs will always be in that same position.

[106] So the whole game plans since the beginning, this is why I felt so confident in that fight through training was to continue to just keep taking his legs out as much as I can.

[107] Did the first round of your fight with Marlon Marais sort of open your eyes to like how effective that can be in a fight?

[108] Absolutely, man. We saw it this weekend.

[109] Yeah.

[110] We saw it this weekend.

[111] Everyone, you mentioned it actually.

[112] And I was a little bummed out.

[113] You mentioned it because a lot of people don't see those little details.

[114] Those cap kicks, man. You start to take out that lead leg, man, and you lose your mobility.

[115] It's insane how we've had all these years of MMA, right?

[116] 1993, the UFC starts.

[117] Here we are in 2020, but it's really only been the last two years or so.

[118] I give credit to Benson Henderson, because Benson Henderson was the first guy to really bring it to MMA.

[119] But for whatever reason, it wasn't as devastating when he was doing it.

[120] I don't know if he was doing it differently, but there was no moment in a fight where he kicked someone's calf and he saw immediately them buckling.

[121] but you're seeing that now with these guys like immediately one, two kicks and their leg is semi -useless.

[122] Yeah, you look at somebody like Justin Gaichi.

[123] Justin Gaichi is, man, if people don't catch onto that, if Khabib don't catch on to that, man, he's in trouble.

[124] And I know him both.

[125] He said, why, like, wide out in the open.

[126] He said, when I fight Kabeb, he goes, I'm not even going to try to kick him in his thighs.

[127] I'm just going to kick him with that low calf kick.

[128] He goes, I'm going to kick him four times.

[129] He goes, after four times he's fucked.

[130] Yeah.

[131] And he saw that.

[132] Watched the fight with him in Etton Barbosa.

[133] And Etton Barboza, he's a high -level striker.

[134] But what really broke down Etten Barboza was what Justin did to him.

[135] He started whipping that calf kick.

[136] And actually, right before I even fought Dominic, like I went on YouTube, like this is like maybe an hour before I went to the arena.

[137] And I just put like some Justin Gachie highlights.

[138] Just ruthless, man. Just really just swinging those kids with bad intentions.

[139] All of them is just to murder you.

[140] And also the reason.

[141] why I've been able to kick and do things like that because I'm very confident in my takedown defense.

[142] You know, it's like John Jones.

[143] John Jones is so comfortable with the stand -up because he knows his ability to stop Tony from taking him down and it's just so much higher.

[144] And I feel that same way, so I become a little more free with my kicks and punches and things of that matter.

[145] We saw two guys in one of the weight classes that you ruled over, Alex Perez and Juice A Formiga this past weekend, and Alex Perez stopped him with those low -leg kicks.

[146] Two UFCs in a row.

[147] We've seen guys get stopped with low leg kicks.

[148] It's crazy.

[149] It's crazy how prominent that technique has become.

[150] It has.

[151] And I think we're going to start seeing more of it.

[152] So people are going to have to start adjusting that because there's, what was it?

[153] There was two stoppages within the, there's a stoppage before Alex Perez recently that came out.

[154] Yeah, last week.

[155] Last week of this, I forget who was fighting.

[156] But it was another stoppage because leg clicks.

[157] In that stoppage, the dude crushed both of his legs.

[158] I apologize for not remembering the names I'm overrun I didn't call that fight either I called it I probably remember it but the low leg kick is just a gigantic factor when you were fighting Marlon Marais I mean it seemed like he was a bit of a step ahead of you in the first round but you made some serious adjustments in between it was like two different fights it was like the first round was like damn this is not going well for Henry and then going into the second round like damn this is not going well for Marlon like you it was a total totally different fight.

[159] It's like you figured the adjustment out, figured out what you needed to do, you stepped in further, you were closer, and you started attacking.

[160] Yeah, and I think a lot of that too, Joe, and if I was, I know how to, I know when to fight and went to compete.

[161] And when Marlon, because first I went into with the sprained ankle.

[162] This is why I had my, like, my ankle tape.

[163] And actually, Marlon's team had heard me scream on Tuesday night when all this happened.

[164] So they knew I was somewhat injured.

[165] So I think they're game.

[166] When did you scream?

[167] I twisted my ankle between the UFC mats.

[168] Like, you know, that had some cheap tape.

[169] And then between the mats, when I stepped in, like, my, I rolled my ankle, like, bad.

[170] Bad, I have pictures of it.

[171] It's like black.

[172] I've seen it.

[173] I've seen it.

[174] I've seen it.

[175] Back in black and blue.

[176] But I still wanted a fight.

[177] So, you know, so anyway, so, you know, I went in there, heard or whatnot.

[178] But I knew that that first round, and you said, you mentioned it too during the fight.

[179] He says, I think this might be a survival round for Henry.

[180] And it absolutely was.

[181] So I knew when.

[182] to fight and want to compete, but I also knew that Marlon Marlon was throwing so much power and I've gone against some of the best in the world.

[183] I was like, dude, there's no way he's going to be able to maintain all that power for five rounds.

[184] And I don't think this kid has any idea as a wrestler, because he's never wrestled before, how much pain a guy like me can endure.

[185] So he can say he was tired.

[186] He can say that, I don't know, something happened, but in reality, it's a mixture of two things.

[187] He blew his watt and this guy, this guy.

[188] guy here could uh which is me could take a lot of part could take a lot of pain i was with mike not too long and i asked him i was like i was like hey mike this is mike tyson i'm like what what how would you describe mohammed ali man what was the difference between him and everybody else and he sat there and he thought about and he's like which was cool to here man because i can i can put myself in in those shoes and he's like he's like man mohammeda ali was a guy that i've never seen before for because he could just endure so much pain like the dude could just endure so much pain that it's almost like the average guy would fold the average that guy would probably get killed but all he just had a certain will to him that separated him from from everybody else it was the fact that he was able to endure pain like you don't hear that too often it's true though you know i mean if you watch his fight with ken norton you know he fought most of the fight with a broken jaw yeah i mean this is heavy weights too man yeah yeah That's probably a five -pound jaw, too.

[189] He fought big heavyweights, man. He fought big heavyweights.

[190] I mean, George Foreman in his prime.

[191] Joe Frazier, when Joe Frazier was in his prime.

[192] Same example.

[193] George Foreman, Lewis Watt.

[194] He had no idea how much pain Ali could endure.

[195] Yep.

[196] And how much movement Ali had going for him.

[197] Right.

[198] Ali was so slick.

[199] You know, when Ali, there's a famous video of Ali with his hands on the ropes.

[200] And George is just so.

[201] swinging punches at him and Ali is using the ropes.

[202] He's holding on the ropes and using the ropes and he's not even putting his hands up at all.

[203] And the most murderous puncher up to that time since Sonny Liston.

[204] Yeah.

[205] And the history of the heavyweight division, you got like, Joe Frazier was a power puncher.

[206] Joe Lewis was a sniper.

[207] He was an excellent power puncher.

[208] But George Forma would lift people in the air.

[209] Yeah.

[210] He would hit people.

[211] Like you ever see his first knockout with Joe Frazier?

[212] Yeah.

[213] He had knocked him on.

[214] Then he fought all he right after he beat Frasier.

[215] When he fought Frazier, he literally lifted him in the air with a punch.

[216] That's how hard Joe Frazier would hit.

[217] And Ali, no hands up, just holding onto the ropes, doing this shit, sitting in front of him, weaning back, doing this shit.

[218] Crazy.

[219] Yeah, but imagine how many of those punches.

[220] Even though he'd get hit in the face, imagine how many of those punches.

[221] George Forman was thrown at him, and then Ali was just laughing and talking to him.

[222] It's a certain mind power, man. It's a mind fire.

[223] That you cannot, you just cannot replicate, man. like that's got to be in you right or you have to have developed it over time and have complete confidence in it you know there's i think you can build mental toughness i really i really do i think it but i think you have to be very conscious about it i think it has to be done over time some people build mental toughness because of their environment or because of how they grew up or some of the the bad things they've faced in their life and some people build mental toughness out of a decision They make a decision to be mentally tough.

[224] And then they actually, they cultivate that.

[225] They work on that.

[226] I think it's a mixture of both.

[227] And this is why sometimes I'm rich, I respect more of like the upper middle class when they become champions, especially in a rough sport like wrestling or MMA.

[228] It's because I feel like minorities or people that have gone through adversity.

[229] It's like, man, we have an advantage because it's through the nurture side of things.

[230] How are you raised, man. I'm one of seven kids, I was raised by a single mother And, you know, I was the youngest man So I was a kid that was picked on You know, I was picked on by, no, I was like It was different when you're the smallest In an immigrant family, you know?

[231] It's like, dude, you're the last one to eat you're gonna get beat up Pretty much the majority of your childhood So you start getting to that age where you could kind of fight back So a lot of it, I guess you owe through the nature and nurture Obviously genetics, your mother and father, but also through the nature side of it.

[232] How you were raised, man?

[233] How tough are you?

[234] Like, me as a kid growing up, like, I remember as a family, man, like hot summer days would come around.

[235] Like, we didn't eat, man. We didn't eat, man. Going to school was a place for us.

[236] Like, at least for, at least I could say, my family, they don't talk about that stuff so much.

[237] They're a little more private.

[238] But for me, it was like, dude, I get a chance to eat lunch and breakfast.

[239] Well, that was a big problem with this COVID shit where they shut schools down.

[240] And a lot of kids are in that same position where that was their, opportunity to eat and some people just i'm not aware of that that that's where a lot of people got their food was at school right right and that was one of those kids so if there's any of those kids or any of those guys that are adults now i'm like hey man be happy for that because i tell you what's made me has been adversity man is going is understanding that that that grind that grit man of being angry and things like that if you're able to challenge that into something constructive yeah joe i'm i'm gonna live an example man You are, you are.

[241] Look at that flag behind you.

[242] I represented that flag.

[243] You did.

[244] You know, and ironically, you know, my mom came to this country, you know, maybe not the most political war.

[245] But she came to this country to live the American dream.

[246] Her American dream was just to make sure her kids.

[247] Well, it's a timing thing, you know, because my grandparents came over here too, but they came over here when it was easy.

[248] You just came over and you just signed some shit and you were in.

[249] Yeah.

[250] You know, and the early 1900s.

[251] It's just, look, if that's how it was, today, you wouldn't have the kind of illegal immigration you have today.

[252] This country was founded on people coming over here because it was easy.

[253] It was a better place to live.

[254] You have a better life for your family.

[255] But there was no hoops to jump through.

[256] My grandparents just arrived.

[257] They just came here and moved in.

[258] I mean, they didn't have to take any, like, serious tests or do any crazy shit.

[259] They just came in.

[260] You know, they didn't have to prove.

[261] that they had some special skills.

[262] Like now, it's very difficult for people to come over here and to get citizenship.

[263] No, it is.

[264] And I do believe, even as the American said, that there is a pathway, you know, to citizenship.

[265] Because you're right, times do change.

[266] And you have to adjust to whatever political power is going on right now.

[267] I just happen to be fortunate to, that my mom did it.

[268] Yeah, your mom did it, yeah.

[269] I said, she crossed.

[270] I'm here now.

[271] I think guys like you are amazing.

[272] sources of inspiration for other people that are struggling.

[273] And this is crazy, Joe, so I'm going to mention something to you.

[274] It's like my mom, both of my parents came here illegally.

[275] I'll just say it, man. You guys forgive me. Don't tell Trump.

[276] But my mom was granted her citizenship.

[277] So when I won the Olympics, my mom wasn't able to attend the 2000 Olympics due to her citizenship status.

[278] So then three years later after that, she was awarded her citizenship.

[279] But at the age of 20, so I stand on both fences, man, like my dad he was uh my you know my father which i was just raised by my mother he committed crimes in and out he was in and out of jail here in california he was actually deported so so i was a five -year -old my dad was deported never came back to america so i i understand both sides man like and i hate to say this but it's true it's my dad came here as a foreigner as as an illegal and he decided to break the law man and rightfully so man he should go back to his native country my mother came here you know illegally, you know, paid her fine, paid her taxes and whatnot, and then she was granted her citizenship in 2011, man. So I've been able to speak on this, on behalf of Congress and kind of share my story to the world, man, because, man, it's almost like I become neutral.

[280] You break the law, you go, man. You obey the law after a certain amount of time, man. Maybe you might get granted as an American.

[281] Yeah.

[282] Yeah, it's a. very frustrating thing for people who do want to have a better life for their family.

[283] They realize how difficult it is to come here.

[284] I fully understand illegal immigration.

[285] I fully understand wanting to keep out people that are criminals and people that are murderers and people that are in the drug trade.

[286] But if I was a person who was struggling to feed my family in South America or in Mexico or wherever, and I found out that I could sneak in and then I could do better, I would sneak in.

[287] Yeah.

[288] I would do it 100%.

[289] And anybody says they wouldn't.

[290] You're lying.

[291] Yeah.

[292] You're lying.

[293] If you found out there was a place across the border where you can make five times as much and you could send money back and all you had to do is grind, this place where literally anybody can go from being completely impoverished to being on top of the world, being a millionaire.

[294] This is the place.

[295] I think the best example, man, I hate to use the example because he's burned a lot of people is Don King?

[296] Well, Don King is maybe not the best example because he was born in America.

[297] First of all, and he's a murderer, but twice, twice over.

[298] You know, he's an example of a different time.

[299] And, you know, you talk to guys like Mike Tyson, he'll tell you that that guy played me and fucked me over.

[300] Right, right.

[301] He's a criminal.

[302] But what I'm saying is he's been able to come out of, you know, obviously he was a murderer, but he was able to somewhat make it in the sport that he desired to be at that time.

[303] I'm not, you know, obviously, I think we all know he's a crook.

[304] But, man, it lets you know what America's able to do, man. Doesn't matter what you've done in life.

[305] You really do, get only a second, a third, but a fourth and a thousand opportunities.

[306] He's from a different era.

[307] I feel like if the Internet was around, well, you know, who knows?

[308] Maybe he'd be president today.

[309] Look at our president, man. This is why, this is why, this is why, like, dude, Trump is the example of the American dream.

[310] In many ways, yeah.

[311] A faulty version of it, but yeah, in many ways.

[312] I think the other person that I would...

[313] Actually, probably not the version of the American Dream because his dad was rich and he gave him money.

[314] Like he started off, his dad gave him millions of dollars to start businesses.

[315] Right, but I mean, he turned that into billions too.

[316] He did, but he also went bankrupt a bunch of times too.

[317] Yeah.

[318] You got me, Joe.

[319] I mean, it's tricky.

[320] I mean, you can't deny the fact that the guy's been remarkably successful.

[321] Yeah.

[322] But like the extenuating circumstances that led to that success is very different.

[323] then your mother sneaking over here because she wanted to do better for her family.

[324] You know, that's the raw version of the American dream.

[325] I mean, the American dream is really immigration.

[326] And that's really what, like, I'm a version of the American dream.

[327] I'm third generation American.

[328] My grandparents came over here because they wanted a better life.

[329] Their parents wanted a better life.

[330] They came over here from Italy and from Ireland.

[331] Yeah, it's a trip, man. When you talk about things like that, you know who I think of a lot?

[332] When you talk about the American dream, man, I know, you know, he's, in my opinion, I feel like he's somewhat misunderstood in our MMA community or just in general, man. Is Ali Abdel Aziz man, a dude that came from Egypt, you know, came to America.

[333] I remember Ali, I've known him for a minute since 2004.

[334] You know, he would sell Fubu, like out.

[335] He was just hustling the whole time out in Colorado Springs.

[336] And, you know, now, I mean, he's got over 150 fighters.

[337] I mean, he's got five champions in the UFC.

[338] I mean, this dude is, when I think of the American dream, I really do think of somebody like Ollie.

[339] Well, he's a very controversial guy.

[340] He is, he is.

[341] But his clients love him.

[342] Oh, yeah.

[343] Oh, yeah.

[344] You know, it's hard to deny that.

[345] His clients love him.

[346] I mean, there's a lot of people that say a lot of wild shit about him.

[347] I don't know how much of it's true.

[348] Yeah.

[349] But the bottom line is you talk to guys like Justin Gage, guys like yourself, you know, many fighters that have had come in here.

[350] that are a rep by him and they love the guy yeah could be but i think frankie frankie yeah frankie all these dudes cody uh verdume and he's been able to and i've been there and i've never seen this before but he's kind of like the glue with all of us like dude i was eating lunch and dinner with with marlin were you really yeah not too long this is like maybe four months after my fight oh wow i mean i'm sure it must have stung but out of the respect for him.

[351] And I told that to Ali, I'm like, Ali, man, these dudes are I was picking on Frankie Edgar too, but I was like, man, you're next dude, you're going to bend to me. And I was like, Ali, these dudes are going to want to fight me, man, there's two against one.

[352] Who's back?

[353] He got, he's like, my brother.

[354] He's like, he didn't they're going to do that when I'm here, man?

[355] He's like, these guys respect as much as you, dude.

[356] I'm just like, huh?

[357] And then we sat down, it was just like nothing ever happened, man. Well, that's very cool that Marlon has that kind character that he could sit down with you after that fight.

[358] That's very cool.

[359] Yeah.

[360] Marlon's an interesting guy, man. he's uh he's one of those guys that like you wonder like is he too big for that division like how much is how much weight is that man cutting he's so fucking big to see him get down to 135 you look how shredded he is like what do you walk around at like he looks like he walks around about 160 something yeah he's big and I think I think I personally think that I could hurt some people at 145 pounds I think so do yeah it's um that that risk versus reward like when do you move away when do you you know when do you go up when do you stay down like how much you beating your body up and then you got some guys who go down later in their career you know like barbos is a good example barboz in his last fight i thought he got robbed i thought he won that decision and um he got down in 145 that's that's not always the answer joe i mean look at me i was at 125 pounds and could i still make it yeah i could still make it but the fatigue that it'd bring me like the I think the psychology side too of cutting weight like going going down is not always the answer man I started having my best success when I decided as like hey man I'm just sick of cutting weight man I'm getting ready to go up and you know challenge my side 135 pounds and what you hear from the naysayers just like man he's just you're too small man you're not ready for some power like that I'm just like no I don't think so man I think there's an advantage of me for me to feel well if I feel well and I feel healthy with my speed you know I'm I'm with short, compact fighters.

[361] Like, man, trust me, I don't need that much.

[362] As long as I land, I'm going to hurt you, man. You can beat 10 pounds heavier than me. It doesn't matter.

[363] There's been a lot of guys who've moved up, and it's been the answer.

[364] Jorge Mazzvedal.

[365] Yeah.

[366] Mazvedal, Calvin.

[367] Yeah.

[368] Even Calvin has success.

[369] I still think if I was, I mean, just someone gets in Kelvin's here.

[370] Like, Kelvin, we got to do this the right way.

[371] There's a lot of guys way bigger than you that make 170.

[372] I think at 170 he could be a world champion.

[373] I really do.

[374] Yeah.

[375] He's a scary man when he's in shape and motivated, but he just gets big.

[376] Yeah, I think, man, he loves.

[377] He loves Mary Jane.

[378] That too.

[379] He loves that too.

[380] Yeah, I think that's the, I think that's what it is.

[381] Yeah, Calvin is, dude, he's one of my best friends, but I'm like, we become super, super close, and he's a very gifted, very gifted human being, man. Like, he's, when you see him, look, start deceiving, no, he doesn't have enough, you know, muscle definition, but man, the dude's athletic ability, what he could do, his counterpunching.

[382] It's like, it's ridiculous.

[383] He's got one of the best straight left hands in the business.

[384] The one they dropped bidsping with?

[385] Like, Jesus.

[386] It's a piston man. Yeah, but I also feel like, and I see that, I always think, okay, Calvin can make $1 .70.

[387] I agree with you, Joe.

[388] But what about that happiness portion?

[389] You know what I'm saying?

[390] Will he be happy throughout that process?

[391] Maybe he'd be happy when he lies in bed with that big ass.

[392] gold belt you know maybe that's what makes it happen i got two of us so i just don't know joe had a gold medal had a gold medal you're the youngest guy to ever win a gold medal in the olympics for wrestling yes in 2008 that's amazing in 2016 uh kyle snider who if he does decide to make a transition to the he sees a guy like joe jones would be in trouble you think yeah yeah the dude is just just just the reason why i beat demetris you know obviously i beat demetri and it was joe i wouldn't be man i don't bring this up right now i wouldn't be mad if the judges would have given it to Demetrius man you know what because it was a hell of a fight and I would have been like a man I almost had him but you know the judges I conveyed enough to for the judges to give it to me and uh the reason why I was able to beat him was because I nullified a lot of his thing with my wrestling my inside trips my takedowns so I completely dismantled this dude you know what I mean I took him out of his rhythm when he was used to kind of catching people and then being able to take people down so I feel like if a guy like cowlice Snyder gets in the game and he's able to kind of go through the process that I've gone through, that's the only guy that I could see beating somebody like John Jones.

[393] How old is he now?

[394] He's young.

[395] He's, uh, I want to say he's 24, about to be 25.

[396] Interesting.

[397] And does he have any desire to fight?

[398] He's mentioned it.

[399] He's mentioned it, but.

[400] Does he have any experience in stand -up at all?

[401] And that's the biggest thing, man. So he would, a guy like that, you would have to kind of, you would have to groom him properly.

[402] Like, you don't want to stick a guy like that.

[403] straight into m a no put them into boxing for at least a couple years haven't haven't this because this is what i did i boxed for three years i did amateur boxing i mean i was i didn't do any jihad to none of that because i was in love with the sport of boxing my original goal and this is crazy this is how this is how crazy i think joe is i was trying to make the olympic team right after 2008 for boxing for boxing yeah and the reason why that that idea came because Deonti Wilder did it within I think it was four years she was able to make a year and a half is it was it a year and a half from boxing wins a bronze medal in the Olympics crazy right I was like dude if that dude could do it give me a few years that's one of the when he told me that I'm like that is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life ridiculous I mean but also extremely motivated because he had a very sick daughter and he realized that he couldn't play basketball he wasn't going to school couldn't play football he's trying to figure of ways to make money he was driving a truck I believe it was for Budweiser He was driving, he was delivering, delivering things, and he just decided, I'm going to get into boxing and just had unbelievable God -given talent and just ferocious punching power.

[404] His punching power is like nothing I've ever seen before.

[405] I mean, you look at Deontay Wilder's knockouts.

[406] They don't even make sense.

[407] He sends people flying across the ring.

[408] And when he fought Tyson Fury, the first fight, when he dropped him and knocked him down twice, he only weighed 209 pounds.

[409] It's crazy.

[410] 209 pounds and that's a heavy weight yeah and you know he's fighting tyson fury he was an enormous heavy weight and like he hits guys man like nobody else what tyson had over him though that he showed the tactical side of it in the second fight was his boxing his his his understanding of the game is so complex it's so much different whereas dante has just this ferocious power and he figures out how to put it on you but when you can knock out a guy like louis ortees with a fucking right hand of the forehead yeah he he looked like gold medal was right ortees yeah yeah and a fucking elite boxer I mean but he blop he hit him on the forehead and Ortiz's just his legs went out and you see him going what the fuck just happened forehead who punches that hard dante's just got crazy crazy power but fact remains he did it after a year and a half and he won a bronze medal in the Olympics which is just spectacular yeah it's nuts man so that's where the original goal came from but I just saw like it was it just wasn't realistic for me at that time like especially at my weight class like these dudes have been doing this since they're four years old there's a different speed I've been and I was sparring with the lot of these guys I'm like damn man this is like it's nuts man it's nuts when you're at the lower weight because now you're dealing with not just in heavy weight you can someone get away with it because if you might be fashion more athletic right but at the lower weight classes man there is speed you got you know you got you got you got you got the dudes from from Philadelphia from California like all these Mexicans black blacks and whites that are just like hey man they've been doing it forever this is a different sport man and I've been humbled before I feel like boxing in particular is one of those sports it's very difficult to learn properly as you get older there's something about muscle memory and and your body being ingrained like developed to move a certain way and to strike a certain way and to be able to react on openings like instinctually it's almost like once you hit like 25 26 years old and you start then, like, ooh, it's real hard to ever get to an elite level.

[411] Yeah, your body starts to change, and that happened to me. And it's crazy, and it's ironic, Joe.

[412] It's like, even my USC debut, like, think about this.

[413] Like, I didn't make weight, and I'll never forget it.

[414] I was with my brother.

[415] He's actually back here, too.

[416] I was with my brother Alonzo, and I remember, you know, I didn't make weight.

[417] I couldn't make the weight, man. I was just doing too much.

[418] You're talking about by the time you get 25, like you hit the now on the head, because that's when I first started struggling to make weight.

[419] And I didn't make weight, at that time and I remember I was just going to get on a fly and just disappear and never freaking see it and never look back then and just retire yeah this is crazy Joe this is crazy and my brother my brother was you know thank God for him my brother Alonzo and he's like you need to be a man and you got to go and talk to Sean Shelby and let him tell him thank you and let him know that you're retired man and I was man it took everything in my heart because I was so embarrassed Joe this was this was when TJ fought when he was supposed to fight Barrow I think the second time and And this was when he fought Joe Soto, so I was supposed to be on that card.

[420] I was supposed to fight Scott Jorgensen.

[421] And I went down there, didn't make the weight, and I never figured.

[422] I was never thinking, I was dehydrated.

[423] I couldn't even have tears to cry, I was so dehydrated.

[424] And I went up to Sean, Sean, thank you, man. But I'm just, I no longer want to do this sport, man. Did you back out of that fight?

[425] I, my body just wasn't reacting, man. Like, I wasn't doing well.

[426] Like my lip, I remember cutting, cutting weight.

[427] That's probably one of my worst weight cuts ever.

[428] It was, I had a cold lip.

[429] Like, I started vomiting, like, all the fluid that I had in my body.

[430] Just stupid.

[431] I was doing 16 pounds, Joe.

[432] I was doing 16 pounds, like, the day of, the day of, pretty much the day of weighings.

[433] Wow.

[434] Like, something stupid.

[435] And the only reason why I was doing something like that was because I felt, when you come from the sport of wrestling, like, to me, making weight and doing everything that the MMA fighters were doing, I was like, man, these dudes are spoiled.

[436] These dudes get 24, these twos get close to about 30 hours before they fight.

[437] I says, man, that's a lot of recovery time.

[438] So this is how stupid, this is the way I saw it.

[439] And again, the age caught up to me. I would do the 16 pounds.

[440] I would murder myself.

[441] I would really hurt myself, make the weight, and then balloon back up.

[442] But there came a point by the time I turned 25, 26, that my body just started to shut down on me. And I just wasn't doing it right.

[443] And that finally kicked me in the ass.

[444] So imagine that UFC debut and I told Sean Shelby did I'm done I ain't never fighting again But let me ask you this So was your thought process that because of the fact That these MMA guys get more time to recover It's not like they have to weigh in the day of the wrestling match They're weighing in the day before the fight In the daytime they don't have to fight And then eventually became in the morning Right so you have even more time And then they didn't have to fight until the next day at night So you were like I'm going to be heavier I'm going to come in bigger with a bigger advantage.

[445] Is that the idea?

[446] Yeah, I think so.

[447] And now looking at it now, it's just, it's dumb, dude.

[448] It's like you're, it's better to feel good than to feel bigger.

[449] Being bigger is, Marlon was bigger than me. Yeah.

[450] You know, a lot of these dudes were bigger than me, but it didn't.

[451] Dominic was bigger than you.

[452] Dominic, too.

[453] Yeah.

[454] Even TJ, when we did make fly weights, somehow you built.

[455] I was 146, so imagine that.

[456] I made 125 pounds, 124.

[457] pounds.

[458] T .J. made the weight, right?

[459] Did he make the weight?

[460] Yeah, he made the weight.

[461] He was 24 -2.

[462] I ballooned up to 146 pounds.

[463] T .J. ballooned up to 150 pounds.

[464] Dude, he looked worse, cutting weight.

[465] He looked worse showing up for the wanes than I've ever seen anybody since Travis Luter.

[466] When Travis Luter missed weight against Anderson -Silva, Travis Luter missed weight against Anderson -Silva, I'll never forget this.

[467] Because I saw him when he missed the weight, and then I saw him, I was backstage while he was trying to continue to cut because they gave him time to make wait and he couldn't lift his legs up to walk to the scale he was shuffling like shuffling towards the scale his lips were all cracked yeah they're all sucked in his face was sucked in he was he was he was literally on death's door like you could see it he was on he was dying if that guy was like released from a prison like an overseas prison i'm like oh my god they were torturing him there he's he's about to die like i never seen a guy look so bad he looked so fucking bad and people forgot about Travis Luter Travis Luter was a beast man he had some of the best jujitsu that anybody had ever seen in the octagon up to that point everybody he fought he submitted he was so fucking good but he for whatever reason when he had that big fight with Anderson Silva he just couldn't keep it together and I believe he had Anderson Silva down at one point in time in that fight too then Anderson Silva caught him in a triangle and elbowed him off of his back and that's how I believe that's how the fight got stopped but Travis was the worst I've ever seen like for someone just about to make weight someone struggling to make weight yeah but even you think about guys like that guys that have could have potentially become a world champion you know what I mean so what happens with somebody loses man what are the stages the emotions when somebody loses you know what I'm saying it's like there's a recovery process off of when people lose and, you know, I hate to say this, but I'll bring up, I'll bring up Marius again, you know, because I feel like I gave the blueprint.

[468] If you watch me fight him, then you watch Aldo fight him.

[469] It's these guys, when they lose, they go through a certain psychology thing, and you can see them as a fighter.

[470] Every time I do fight, I always look at their demeanor.

[471] I always pay attention to their demeanor.

[472] From the first round to the second round to the third, as far as it goes.

[473] and I've noticed that Marlon's demeanor was changing.

[474] I noticed that in my fights when people's demeanor changes, like that's, to me, that's a breaking point that the mind has.

[475] So I was able to see that with Marlon.

[476] Then after the, after you did you see, you saw that he was slowing down.

[477] I saw he was slowing down.

[478] His face starts to slouch, his shoulders start to drop.

[479] And then that's when I, you really can't see in the middle, but then that's when I started talking to him.

[480] But I'm like, all right, man, you ready?

[481] Let's go.

[482] Bring it.

[483] give it to me you know this is during the fight so you're talking back no he wasn't he wasn't and that's another reason is because they're so tired man that they don't they just don't have any energy even McGregor people like that but what I'm trying to get to is guys that lose if you don't recover from your defeat from your loss if you don't get therapy if you don't understand the reasons why you lost man you're screwed therapy therapy have you gotten that um yeah yeah But it's more, for me, was more like a realization when the first time I lost it Demetri's Johnson and getting knocked out in two minutes and 36 seconds, man. It's like, to me, the worst thing that could happen to a fighter.

[484] And the worst scenario that something can happen to somebody and get stopped is getting a knee to the body.

[485] You're conscious, Joe.

[486] You're conscious and he's kneeing you from left to right.

[487] And then your eyes are open and you've had enough.

[488] And then you see Big John McCarthy waving his hands.

[489] And you're knowing that he's making the right.

[490] call but you're still conscious you still want to go but you can't right your body shut off in front of 20 ,000 people in front you know with Joe Rogan commentating I mean it's it's miserable and it's terrible but it's a certain therapy it's a certain acceptance that you got to go through in order for you to come out of that so what did you do afterwards I let go of coaches man let go of coaches I started traveling the world I mean I went to Asia I went to what you do in Asia I went out to Singapore I went to evolve I spent about a month out there.

[491] Oh, yeah, just to train.

[492] Just to train.

[493] Just to go find, like, the best minds of mixed martial arts and just of basis, too.

[494] I went out to, you know, to Holland for a month.

[495] I would go out to Brazil and just...

[496] What's you doing Holland?

[497] And Holland, I trained out with...

[498] I trained with Paula Moth.

[499] He's Andy Sowers coach.

[500] Oh, wow.

[501] Yeah, so I was with them and just training with them and just humbling yourself, I guess I could say.

[502] And obviously, throughout this whole time, It's like, man, I was on a quest because I still had Demetius Johnson.

[503] Like, I wasn't going to retire from the sport without me giving him a fair shake.

[504] So I knew that it had something to do, not just with the body, but what the mind is.

[505] It's almost like, you got to come out of this, man. Like, almost like you can call it a mistake or whatnot, but the reality is you lost, man. There's holes in your games.

[506] So I always tell people, like, don't face it.

[507] I'm sorry, don't fake it until you make it.

[508] I don't like that.

[509] You have to face the shit.

[510] Once you face it, this is when you're saying.

[511] start to create man freaking overflowing success did you know like when you fought him and uh first of all you fought the best version of demetrius johnson ever the guy to to this day i think is the best example of a mixed martial arts i've ever seen oh yeah i think demetrius in his prime he was so fucking good man he was so fast and he was so technical and he made such good decisions his footwork his movement like everything was so precise did you did you say okay i see the gap i see these holes and i know where he hit me i know where there was mistakes made i got to tighten those up how do i do that yeah demetrips was so good everywhere even in the wrestling i can even tell you as an olympic athlete even in the wrestling his timing was really good so i don't even think it was so much demetri's johnson like obviously it was a distance game but it comes down to like such when you fight a guy like that comes down to such the minor details man and i think the minor detail for me was was was composure and i remember right before i fought the dude i i noticed that like my corner my team that they were extremely nervous joe like my team they're dude you imagine fighting somebody like demetri jonson and your coach is not having faith in you and i'm like what the i'm like shit man are you kidding me well he was a ghost back then demetrius was a ghost i mean he wasn't there for you he would be swinging at air He was just off to the side.

[512] Then he was kneeing you in the body and punching you in the face and kicking your leg on the way out.

[513] And we should even say in the second fight, the fight that you won, he got you with that low calf kick and your leg went numb.

[514] Yeah, hit the peronial nerve, which numbs like all the nerves to your feet.

[515] So it sleeps it.

[516] And then when you try to lay your foot down, like your foot's still awake, so I even sprained it in the first round.

[517] But this is the mind power that I had, Joel.

[518] It was a survivor run, as you say.

[519] I went back to the corner and I thought to myself this is how crazy I'm I was like hey I just thought to myself man how crazy is this going to be when I beat this dude like I survived that first run and I said man this is going to make my story whatever I desired in my life that much better because I went through adversity with this fucking dude again yeah but just to get back to yeah that's what I'm saying that's a champion's mind and even before so I'm getting ready to walk I'm getting ready to fight Demetius Johnson.

[520] And I noticed my team like they're still kind of like, you know, grabbing their fingers.

[521] You know, I'm pacing back and forth.

[522] And about a few hours before we went out to the arena, I talked to my team and I sat him here and I've been like, and I sat my whole team down.

[523] It's just like, almost like a dad.

[524] And I'm like, listen, man, I says, I need you guys to trust me and have faith in me. The key plan to being this dude, like, I know this is the greatest of all time.

[525] But I know what I've done in wrestling.

[526] I can replicate that what I've done in mixed martial arts, man. The only thing I'm going to ask from you guys is for you guys to be composed, for you guys to be composed, man. Don't over yell, stay calm.

[527] Like, whatever happens in the fight, man, I just need you guys to bear with me and have faith in me because I'm going to...

[528] You had to coach your coaches.

[529] Yeah, in some way, man. And it's crazy to say that.

[530] So then right when I'm getting ready, check this out, just right when I'm getting ready to walk out, you know, right before I walk out first, I was going to walk out and then Demetrius.

[531] And I still noticed my coach was still a little nervous.

[532] And I looked at him, I said, hey, guys, remember composure, man, composure.

[533] Like, I was so ready for this, dude.

[534] So then I go in there, I get kicked in the first 30 seconds, dude.

[535] My leg starts to wobble.

[536] And so forth, you know, it was a survival round.

[537] I allow him to win, whatever.

[538] I think he won the first.

[539] I won the second.

[540] He won the third.

[541] And then I believe I won the fourth, and I won the fifth.

[542] And then after this whole thing, check this out, Joe.

[543] Demetri Johnson was on Ariel Hawani.

[544] And then Ariel Hohani asked him.

[545] He was like, hey, Demetius, just one last question.

[546] He was like, what's one thing that surprised you about Henry?

[547] And Demetius Johnson said, well, I knew he was going to be fast.

[548] I knew he was strong.

[549] But there's one thing that really did surprise with Henry.

[550] It was the fact that he was so relaxed.

[551] You know?

[552] So it's these tactical things, and everybody that you fight is completely different.

[553] You know, you can have a certain word that you can put up here.

[554] But I knew that being composed and relaxed and not overreacted.

[555] react to Demetrius Johnson that that would win me the fight for this fight and there's a lot more to it was me being a knowing one to fight and no one to compete it's me being a little theatrical like bumping my fist like conveying the judges those little things that you learn as as a veteran of competition that you can even convey the judges so there's even acting going on joe now i'm telling you guys all my secrets here but in reality there is man that's i'm just a winner i just The only thing I just know how to do is know how to win.

[556] How are you going to step away from this?

[557] Come on, Henry.

[558] How are you going to do this?

[559] Show me the money!

[560] I'm torn.

[561] Like I said in the beginning, man, I feel both ways.

[562] And one, I'm happy when a fighter gets out on top of the game like you.

[563] Like, one of my favorite boxing stories of all time is Marvin Hagler.

[564] You know why?

[565] Because he fought Sugar Ray Leonard.

[566] I think he got robbed to this day.

[567] I think he won the decision.

[568] They gave it to Sugar Ray, and then he backed away.

[569] That's sage.

[570] What you got here?

[571] You smoking this show?

[572] No, bro.

[573] No, you light it up to kill the demons in the room.

[574] This Native American lady gave me this.

[575] She came in to talk to us about, I got in this long kick of reading about Native American history.

[576] Yeah.

[577] They actually, a lot of them referred themselves as American Indians.

[578] But, and then this lady came in and was educating me on a lot of the issues and brought me some sage to clear all the bad spirits.

[579] Yeah, no, I believe in a lot.

[580] in a lot of these rituals.

[581] Actually, not too long ago, I was actually with Uncle Mike.

[582] Yeah, you told me that.

[583] With Mike Tyson and...

[584] Just getting rid of demons right now, but...

[585] Demons be gone.

[586] Don't start shaking back there, man. No, we'll be all right.

[587] Jamie's no demon.

[588] You never know.

[589] Yeah, but I was able to...

[590] Because, you know, as you know, Mike, Mike has always talked about the toad, you know?

[591] Yes.

[592] And I believe you've done the toad, too.

[593] Yeah, what the toad is, what you're referring to is 5 -methoxy -dy -lythyl -tryptamine.

[594] mean that's excreted by the toad's skin.

[595] They take this type of toad.

[596] I forget the name of the toad, but they get it excited and excrete this stuff from its skin onto glass, and then they leave that glass out in the sun, and it dries, that excretion dries, and then you scrape it up with a razor blade, and then you smoke that stuff.

[597] Or you could just get a synthetic version of it.

[598] Colorado River Toad, that's what it is, Sonoran Desert Toad.

[599] Yeah, and you can find the center of the universe through the excretions of this Oh my God, it's a trip, Joe, it's a trip, so anyways.

[600] Have you done anything before this?

[601] Before you did this, have you had any experiences with psychedelics?

[602] Yeah, I've done like, I've, you know, I've done mushrooms and obviously high smoke, which I don't know where all the Mary Jane is, but.

[603] It's right here, bro.

[604] You want some?

[605] Come on, you're retired.

[606] Yeah, why not, man?

[607] Come on, Jeff Novitsky.

[608] Leave him alone.

[609] Nowitsky actually wanted everybody to be able to.

[610] He's one of the first guys to say it's nonsense.

[611] It's not a performance enhancer.

[612] Although with Nick Diaz, I think it might be.

[613] Yeah.

[614] I think with Nick Diaz, it might actually be a performance enhancer.

[615] I really think so, man. When he fought Gomi, they said he had to have gotten hot.

[616] He had so much weed in this system when they tested him that he had to have gotten high right before the fight.

[617] Yeah.

[618] Light that up, Joe.

[619] You puff, puff, puff pass, or?

[620] Of course.

[621] So I'm going to share my story with you, Joe, and I want you to share yours with me. What type of leaf is this?

[622] Well, that's tobacco on the outside, so it's a blunt.

[623] And then the inside, it's the weed.

[624] I get this from Speedweed.

[625] Shout out to my man, Gino.

[626] Geno Gentile.

[627] So check this out.

[628] You imagine doing the toe with somebody like Mike?

[629] I get high with Mike, and I got nervous.

[630] When I'm nervous when I meet him, he was one of my heroes.

[631] When I was a kid, Mike Tyson was the fucking.

[632] man I mean in a way that it's hard for people to convey today to understand what a cultural figure Mike Tyson was in like 1986 it's hard to convey you're not going to no one's going to understand youngest ever heavyweight champion you know knocks out Trevor Berwick when he's 20 years old he was the same guy that beat Ali right Trevor Berwick beat Ali late in his career when it was a real sad it was a real sad fight it was a real sad fight but it's touching remember when Ali went in the ring and gave Mike like a little pet talk you know and then Mike and then Mike went out there and knocked that dude on the first round yeah priceless yeah yeah mahaman Ali's like fuck this dude out for him will you yeah yeah but anyways to get back to that Joe so you know so you know I've been I've actually been shadowing Mike for like Mike Tyson for like the last I'm good friends with his manager Rob Rob Hickman and just the stuff that they're doing at Tyson Ranch man is it's pretty cool yeah it's really cool right Yeah, they're bringing medicine to the world So Mike, I've been on this podcast He's always talked about the toad I was like, all right, you know So I became good friends with, I call him Uncle Mike, man Because he's just, you know, he schools me a lot Every time he's always, you know, he'll compliment But then he'll school me at the same time So he always talked about the toad I'm just like, well, let's do it then Mike Let's do it Uncle Mike So he's like, man, dude You sure you want?

[633] I'm like, yeah, man, you've been talking about it for a minute So, you know, so we go out We go on this, you know They have this whole real nice settlement with rituals or whatnot and we go out to uh to antigo which is an island off the off the caribbean we have a i forget what they're called uh the person that a shaman yeah shaman i'm sorry and he's out there and you know mike goes first so mike imagine this is mike tyson does and you know mike tyson he's he's doing it he's going he's going a bit crazy man because a lot of what what that what that does is it brings out a lot of your as you say you know you open up the stage a lot of your demons a lot of things that you probably been holding on to for a minute So I'm seeing Mike over here twist and turning and kind of, you know, talk about a lot of, I don't want to share that stuff, but, you know, talk about a lot of his past, man. It's me, as you said, he's an idol, he's a legend, you know, that's the way I look at Mike, too.

[634] I'm over here, you know, I'm just, I'm almost like tripping out, but at the same time intrigued, you know, because so then I go up and I do it.

[635] And, man, it took me to, especially out of retirement here, man. Like, I would, I almost kind of somewhat wanted answers.

[636] I was hoping that it would give me, okay, man, this is, like, the path and whatnot.

[637] And it took me, it took me to, like, it took me to my mom's, like, your mom's, like, first love, man. You know, and it showed me, like, in a story, almost like in a movie, you know, how I was born, how my mom had me, how by the time I was eight years old, like, I had my sister, so it was no longer the youngest, how my mom kind of, like, you know, in all fairness, kind of, somewhat pushed to the side.

[638] leaving home at the age of 17 and substituted my mom's love for self -fulfillment, wrestling, mixed martial arts, and it brought me back to a little kid when I was maybe four or five when I would cry to my mom because I remember as a kid we would go we would go from L .A. to New Mexico like in Greyhounds.

[639] I remember stopping at McDonald's and things like that.

[640] But to me, you know, as a kid, you don't know you're poor.

[641] but what that did is that brought me back to the person that created me that brought me back to my mom's love man so it like it like resurrected something in me and I was crying I was asking for like forgiveness I was speaking in Spanish my pardon me like mom forgive me it was something uh it was something scary in some ways because it does it takes you out of your your body like it's it's almost like you're in judgment day and you're the one that's being convicted and you're the judge too and it's telling you but it's giving you this certain peace it's like you're so dead that you're alive it's a trip Joe I don't know which ones you had but this is what I can share and what I can experience like it was it was cool man because I was able to do it with special people I did it with Kelvin like we all did it it was already formerly planning on my brother back there my mentor I probably pissed at me because they look out for me a lot but man it was something that you know as an adult you have the rights to make these decisions and share if it's good.

[642] And I felt like the toad was probably one of the best things that's happened to me. Like, honestly, because it makes you realize and reflect on what truly matters.

[643] I think there's a fear of it just because it's illegal.

[644] I really think that's it.

[645] And it should be respected.

[646] It's very dangerous in that sense that it could not that it could do harm to you physically if it's the real deal.

[647] It's not going to do harm to you physically.

[648] Your body has it in it.

[649] Your body knows what to do with it.

[650] It's one of the reasons why it's such a quick trip.

[651] Your body knows how to bring that stuff back to baseline very quickly.

[652] That's why it's only like a 15 -minute trip.

[653] But it's not bad for you all the time.

[654] I think it's like many, it's a really powerful thing that's got to be respected.

[655] It could fuck you up if you're not ready.

[656] If you have some distorted versions of the world that you're operating under.

[657] For me, one of the things that made me feel like right away, one of the first things was realizing how much, of like the way I talk about things is like calculated I was like I was trying to figure out like I would say things in a way that I wanted people to say ooh he phrased that cool like I would try hard to impress people with the way I was saying things and I was realizing that as I was trying to describe the trip after it was over I was like that's interesting like so that probably leads to a disconnect between me and someone is listening because it's not a hundred percent what's going on in my head it's at least a little bit showmanship and bullshit and it made me realize it in that moment like I think it probably made me a better everything probably made me a better comedian probably made me better podcast or everything.

[658] Also it's been a minute when did you do this for the first time?

[659] The first time I did it was early 2000s so I guess we're looking at like 2002 -ish and somewhere around then yeah that was like the first time I did it last time I did it was about two years ago but the last time I did it I did the other kind that n -n -dymethyl treat actually maybe a little less than two years ago little less than two years ago it was n -n dimethylptamine which is that's the different version that's the version of it that's in ayahuasca that's the version of it there's a bunch of different snuffs and different ways that people try to to get that stuff into their system, but smoking it is the quickest.

[660] Smoking it gets you, you vaporize it, and it gets you right to the center of the universe immediately.

[661] And all those things, you know, I think, man, one of the cool things about life, like what you're talking about in your journey, your journey as a man, your journey as a champion, your journey to become better and to show what you're capable of this all of this is because no one gets it right you don't just get it right like you fuck it up and you try to do better and you you fail and then you figure out what went wrong and you you just constantly analyze whatever you're doing and obsess on it and you can become better at that thing and through that you can understand that you can be better at anything and I think when you, any kind of psychedelic where you have an opportunity to look at yourself, just really look at yourself accurately, you're not going to like it, but it's going to give you great benefit because it's going to give you, you're going to be able to see yourself honestly and see whatever those flaws.

[662] It does, don't get mad that you have all these flaws.

[663] Just fix them.

[664] Just fix them.

[665] Do your best to fix them.

[666] And you're not going to get it right because ego is still going to come creeping back in your life and ego's still going to hold on to your legs and drag you down while you're trying to run.

[667] You know?

[668] That's what it is.

[669] Ego's like hanging on your ankles where you're trying to run.

[670] Like, come on, stay the same.

[671] But you can't stay the same and get better.

[672] The way you get better is to relax and to realize that, you know, all your fuck -ups, all the fails, all that's not you.

[673] Just because you lost a match, doesn't mean you're a loser.

[674] You just lost.

[675] Like, you should be happy that you got this opportunity to feel terrible.

[676] because through that opportunity to feel terrible that's where all the growth comes from if you can survive it some people can't survive it right you all know we all know those guys that were really good in the gym and they had like one or two matches or one or two fights and they just couldn't handle the pressure for whatever reason they couldn't handle the things that went wrong and they just didn't want to do it anymore but they could have been like a world beater you know everyone knows that guy yeah right and what is wrong with that guy well that guy's got one aspect of your two -part thing that you were talking about, heart and ability, right?

[677] He's got one aspect.

[678] He's got the ability.

[679] But he's got a missing part and he doesn't want to look at it.

[680] Because if he wanted to look at it, he would concentrate entirely on that and he would get better at that.

[681] But it's hard.

[682] It's hard to look at yourself.

[683] Psychedelics let you look at yourself.

[684] Like, hey, stupid, look at you.

[685] Remember the last time I did DMT, there was a string of jokers, like gestures with the bells on, hands in front of me going like this fuck you just openly mocking me and i was like oh that must be what i need i must need that i'm like that's good that's good to see yeah it's definitely uh it's definitely uh it's definitely an ego check man big time dissolves it man like like with mike like he loves a dude and yeah he's you know he he owes it to the to the tone you know what i'm saying like that said that he he said that's been a big reason why he's changed his life you know Mike wasn't doing so well until he tried this.

[686] And he talks about it all the time on his podcast.

[687] It gives you an opportunity to shift.

[688] It's hail drug addicts.

[689] I mean, drug addicts have gone from doing all kinds of crazy.

[690] They try the toe and they completely just left everything.

[691] Guys that they left almost like a dead man walking to, hey, he's alive again.

[692] He's here with us.

[693] Yeah.

[694] I think a lot of diseases of addiction are diseases of despair, right?

[695] It's like disease of the mind and wanting to squire.

[696] wash those demons and drown them out, the anxiety, the fear, the depression, the, you know, just the terrible feelings you have about who you are, you know, maybe you're homeless, maybe your life's falling apart, but you're alive right now and you can't handle it.

[697] You can't handle where you're at.

[698] You can't handle who you are.

[699] You can't handle what people have done to you.

[700] So you just throw drugs in there, throw drugs in there.

[701] It's something like DMT or, you know, there's a bunch of different sort of psychedelics that can do it.

[702] For a lot of people, it's Ibogaine.

[703] Ibogaine is a big one for drug addicts.

[704] People have real issues with opiates.

[705] Ibogaine knocks it out of the park with those people.

[706] It cures a giant number.

[707] See if you can Google the percentage of people who are cured of addictions.

[708] by ibegain ibogaine is it comes from the i've never done this and with all due respect in full disclosure it's it was uh it's from the aboga tree i believe it's from africa and there's something about this drug that just kills all ideas that you have of addiction and rewires your brain and it's insanely effective and but ruthless it's like a 24 hour experience says oh my god look at this one doctor reported a 70 to 80 percent success rate with effective aftercare He added that when people recovering from meth addiction took Ibogaine but returned to the same environment where they'd originally abused meth, there was a 90 % relapse rate.

[709] That's not good.

[710] So that's terrible.

[711] So you have to do it and then get out.

[712] Or maybe it's meth.

[713] Maybe meth just like super hard to kick.

[714] What's the hardest one to kick?

[715] Yeah.

[716] I've never fucked with.

[717] There's no, any problem and I were talking about this once.

[718] We were both saying this.

[719] Like, there's no meth advocates.

[720] Like, people are telling you you should take weed.

[721] Like, bro, weed will calm you down.

[722] We will make you more friendly.

[723] There's weed evangelists.

[724] There's no, like, meth guys.

[725] You know what I'm saying?

[726] Oh, that's funny.

[727] And Ozark that comes up at the end, she's like, I want to start those treatment centers.

[728] Yes, yes.

[729] At the same time.

[730] Don't spoil alert it.

[731] I was trying to figure out of saying.

[732] Yeah, you did a good job.

[733] Yeah, that didn't give away too much enough.

[734] But, God damn.

[735] It's, there's something about having any sort of a psychedelic experience.

[736] and it just makes you realize how badly you're fucking up and for some people that's enough like the whole reason why they would do a psychedelic if they were addicted also is because they realized they were fucking up and they're looking for some way to change you know those good feelings that you have man like when when you beat Dominic Cruz and you raise your hands at the end of that fight and you knew it was going to be over you knew it was going to be over you knew you're going to go out in history no matter what even if you step away right now I know you say the greatest, but I'm just in the fairness of experts.

[737] In combat.

[738] You are one of the greatest of all time, for sure.

[739] Olympic gold medalist, two -division world champion.

[740] That's unheard of.

[741] And you're doing it all in this super technical division.

[742] Both of them, 25 and 35, super technical divisions.

[743] Everybody's a wizard.

[744] And we saw that this weekend, man. Holy shit.

[745] What a weekend for the Banimate Division, right?

[746] Yeah, it's exciting, man. there's a lot of good people out there's a lot of good people out there the resurrection too of koole dude cody looks so good he didn't just look so good he looked so fucking fast so fast and technical i mean it was super impressive but so was al jamein sterling yeah aljamain choking out sanhagen like that and being able to do it in under two minutes that's crazy yeah that is man that's uh crazy and especially the guy who he'd be and how he beat uh A Sanhagen, he's a beast.

[747] Yeah, he's the real deal, man. That was the fight that I was thinking on the car was going to be the most difficult to call.

[748] I was like, who's going to win that one?

[749] I don't know.

[750] Because they're both so good.

[751] And Sanhagen's just surging.

[752] But Aljo just shut it all down, man. The way he did it, just so intense.

[753] Like, he had hit some new level.

[754] You know, sometimes a fighter will just hit a new level.

[755] Now, when you think about him, it's probably hard for you because that's that's your division yeah but i again his wrestling i i break people down like even through their mentality i study the fighters i'm going to study i study their mental game too and how they do interviews and i'll give you two examples and i and i feel like uh i feel like al germane sterling is uh almost the same thing as as demetre's johnson just in the concept of my wrestling just because of my wrestling i feel extremely confident with my hands And I know he can't take me down.

[756] I know he won't take me down.

[757] So I know there's a game pack set in place where I can be a little more offensive with somebody like Al Jemay Sterling.

[758] And obviously, let's talk to, let's talk about Sean O'Miley.

[759] I just want to break these dudes down real quick.

[760] Even somebody like him, listen to his interviews.

[761] And you study these guys and you see where their mindset is and where their holes are going to be.

[762] It's like, they had asked him, who do you want to, they asked Sean O'Malley, who do you want to fight next?

[763] And he's like, you know, I just want to fight, you know, I just want to fight the best strikers.

[764] He never mentioned about, I'll take anybody out, I'll take anybody in the top 10 or 15 or whatever.

[765] Because in my opinion, he hasn't really beat somebody that's like, okay, man, you're the real deal.

[766] Even though he did be whiling, and he was a contender, but it's been a long time.

[767] He's a young kid that's learning the sport while we're watching him on the UFC.

[768] That's what's crazy about him.

[769] I mean, you go back to Dana White's Contender Show, and he was looser, wilder, you know, fun to watch, but not nearly as sharp.

[770] Like now he's on a completely different level Knocking out of Wyneland like that Faking the uppercut And then just following over the top With the straight right hand And catching him slipping I mean that was That was fantastic But that's the point that I'm trying to get to Is it's a striking game For him right now You know what I'm saying?

[771] Like there is a whole other aspect And that's called wrestling and Jiu Jitsu And that phone I've heard he's He has developed pretty good Jiu Jitsu But there's that other art That I want to see When you're really good tests and you're taking it to deep waters, then I'll see your real colors.

[772] Then I'll be like, okay, man, you are ready to take on anybody in the top five.

[773] I'm going to give you a good example of that.

[774] Yaya Rodriguez, when he fought Frankie Edgar.

[775] That was a good example of that.

[776] Frankie Edgar was just that wrestling was too strong.

[777] That ground of pound was too strong.

[778] He couldn't keep him off him.

[779] He just couldn't do anything about it.

[780] And that was a great example that because Yair was this super flash kicker.

[781] I mean, Yair, to me, has some of the best kicks I've ever seen inside the octagon.

[782] Wild, flashy shit.

[783] Remember when he threw that?

[784] He threw against BJ.

[785] He hit him with a 360 roundhouse kick to the face.

[786] Do you remember that?

[787] Bro, that's crazy shit to pull off in a fight.

[788] 360 roundhouse kicked him in the face.

[789] Yair was a beast, and everybody was, like, really thinking, you know, he's on a short path to the title.

[790] But the big hole was that wrestling.

[791] It was exposed by how elite Frankie is and how nasty Frankie's ground and pound is.

[792] It was a major beatdown, you know, and that's one of those fights where you watch a guy and you go, this guy, it's all about styles because it's all about, you know, whether, if he found someone that played his game, like, oh, shit, he's good at that game.

[793] But what Frankie did is just completely impose his game, just drag him down and beat him up.

[794] And then we don't know what would happen with O'Malley when it comes to that, but I know who he is as a person, and he's working.

[795] He's working on everything.

[796] That kid is, he's focused as fuck.

[797] He keeps getting better and better and better, like in a trippy way.

[798] Like when you saw him come back after two years off, you know, two years dealing with a bunch of bullshit.

[799] I forget what he was suspended for.

[800] I don't remember what it was.

[801] Was it a marijuana?

[802] That doesn't make sense.

[803] Tainted supplements?

[804] Yeah, something in protein or something like that.

[805] Yeah.

[806] No. Anyway, I'm interested.

[807] Yeah.

[808] I'm interested.

[809] And it's making the band and wood division with guys like that.

[810] It's making it exciting, man. Oh, it's so exciting.

[811] First of all, we didn't even talk about.

[812] You got Peter Jan versus Josealdo for your title.

[813] Does it still feel like yours?

[814] I let it go, Joe.

[815] I let it go.

[816] Honestly, I let it go, man. They can all kill each other.

[817] That's how I feel.

[818] I'm so happy.

[819] I'm so satisfied, you honestly.

[820] You look happy.

[821] The point is, like, what a division.

[822] Unless you cross me with something here, I don't know.

[823] what you...

[824] No, it's all good, bro.

[825] It's all good.

[826] I'm really excited about that Jose Aldo, Piotr -Yon fight, but it's fascinating to me that they decided to give the fight to Aldo, even though Marais won the decision.

[827] Has a real interesting choice, isn't it?

[828] Because although I agree with the decision, I think, or excuse me, I agree with Aldo.

[829] I think Aldo won that fight.

[830] I think it was a really close fight, but I thought Aldo won the fight.

[831] But it was close.

[832] It was judges gave it to Marlin, and then the UFC's like, nah, player, we're going to have Aldo fight Piot.

[833] And part of it is because Aldo is obviously a huge draw and one of the greatest of all time, particularly greatest featherweights of all time.

[834] Well, remember, I'm going to, I'm actually going to change your mind on that.

[835] It's actually it's really my fault.

[836] It's your fault?

[837] Yeah, it's my fault that Jose Aldo is fighting for the belt because that's who I was originally supposed to fight with Dominic.

[838] But this whole COVID thing happened.

[839] So Aldo was going to fight for the time.

[840] And then it's Like, you can't do that to us.

[841] So the UFC, you know, they stuck to their word.

[842] Oh, that's interesting.

[843] Still, though, for us to Marlon.

[844] If Eddie was here, we could debate, man. That makes sense.

[845] That makes sense.

[846] Listen, I'm happy for both fights.

[847] I would happy, I'd be happy if Marlon fought Piotr -Yon for the title, or it'd be happy if Aldo fought him.

[848] I'd be happy if Marlon and Aldo fought again.

[849] Like, there's great fights in that division now that you've stepped down for now.

[850] Really, the people that I think that should fight for the belt would be Al Jermaine Sterling and Peter.

[851] I'm going to call him Peter, man. I ain't going to get that authentically.

[852] It was Peter for a while.

[853] We were supposed to call him Peter.

[854] And then they said, no, it's Piotr.

[855] Piotr.

[856] It's like Fador.

[857] Fador's the real name's not Fadar.

[858] It's Fyodor.

[859] Yeah.

[860] It's so rude.

[861] We could have said Fyodor.

[862] Yeah, but even somebody like Peter Yoneman, like, how dangerous is you really?

[863] Yeah, he'd be Uriah, but Yerai has been out for a minute.

[864] You know, besides Yariah, what's another big name that that dude has beaten?

[865] No, well, clearly he's very good.

[866] There's no doubt about it.

[867] Whether or not he's at your level, you don't find out until he fights a guy like you.

[868] Or he fights a guy like Aldo.

[869] That's when we find out what's up.

[870] But we know he's really good.

[871] You know, the way he beat up Yariah, it's not just that he beat him.

[872] He beat him up.

[873] And, you know, Yariah's always going to be a tough out.

[874] He's a tough guy, man. He's a super skilled, super seasoned guy.

[875] your eye's been around forever you know he's he's fought so many good guys he knows how to survive and to see peyodor beat him up like that's like wow and he's fucking strong man he's fucking strong like he's got that weird old russian strength you know yeah he is he is he is dangerous he's got power he throws knees he throws off the clinch yep yep dangerous he's dangerous he's technical when i see a guy like that is like he's technical and he has malice and when someone's technical and they have malice is like that's what i have you know what i'm saying and i can recognize yeah yeah malice is a good way of putting it what mike tyson would call bad intentions yeah yeah that's he's got it so like the division's never been more exciting you know and there's still guys like jimmy rvara still a dangerous dangerous fighter there's like uh that's what i'm saying joe you think they'll you think they'll miss me they're gonna miss you anyway man come on they hated the cringe no no no Listen, you did a great job with all that cringy shit.

[876] You made people pay attention.

[877] I thought it was genius.

[878] Knowing you, who you really are, seeing this character that you're doing?

[879] Did I get you?

[880] Oh, I was laughing hard, man. Are you ready for me to become the intergender world champ?

[881] When you're telling Valeted to bend the knee?

[882] I was crying.

[883] I was crying.

[884] Can we pull up some pictures of that?

[885] The intergender world champ.

[886] That is hilarious.

[887] What made you decide?

[888] Just like, look, I need something.

[889] I need something.

[890] to the market myself or you just having fun?

[891] No, I wasn't even, oh, my God, this is kind of a, it's funny, but it's somebody high profile that dared me to.

[892] I'm like, dude, I can't do that.

[893] He challenged me so much.

[894] He's like, I dare you.

[895] You know, I was like, ah, all right.

[896] So I ended up doing the video, and then I was like, God, dude, what am I doing?

[897] Oh, that's hilarious.

[898] But look at what it's done, Joe.

[899] I was like, we saved, I saved an entire division, man, because Dan Way I wanted to cut its neck off, and he told me that.

[900] There's something about what you did that's like, this is what Connor did, this is what Chale Sondon was probably the best at it, the original.

[901] Chale Sondon is the original pro wrestling style shit talker in MMA that really made people hyped up about fights.

[902] I mean, you got to give credit to Chale because before Chale, there was, you know, I'm going to fuck him up, I'm going to kick his ass.

[903] People always talk shit, but they never talk shit with an entertainer's flare the way Chale did.

[904] I mean, even though you kind of knew the Chale was in over his head in some of those fights, like with John Jones, I had a real deep feeling he was in over his head with Anderson Silva in the second fight in particular.

[905] You know, I just had a feeling he was in over his head, but he would still talk so much shit.

[906] It was so fun.

[907] And it made the fights way bigger.

[908] They should all thank him.

[909] Thank you for what you said about my mother.

[910] Thank you for all that crazy shit you said because that that's what really sold that fight.

[911] They all made more money because of him.

[912] Yeah, they all, man, and the thing is, is what I admire about that now, like a guy like Kobe, obviously, Connor, even Rhonda.

[913] I think Rhonda was more of a persona.

[914] It was more the fact that the pressure that comes with that shit, like, dude, that's like a whole other fight.

[915] And you have to make sure that you've got to live up to your expectations.

[916] You remember me throwing shit out the bag and with the pillow?

[917] Would you think of the pillows?

[918] I'm like, dude, I really got to beat Dominic's ass to you.

[919] I know the pillows with the heads on them and you're kicking.

[920] and the pillows with different guys' heads.

[921] But dude, it was funny.

[922] It was funny.

[923] It does put extra pressure on you, right?

[924] Because if you lose, people are so happy.

[925] But check this out.

[926] This is how crazy I am.

[927] That pressure, man, I channel that thing.

[928] And I almost love it, Joe.

[929] It's crazy.

[930] Like, I like feeling a little scary.

[931] Look at you with the pillows.

[932] Light in bed with your belts and the pillows with TJ's head and DJ's head.

[933] It's hilarious.

[934] The king of cringe, bend the knee.

[935] So what did your friend that you won't say the person's name?

[936] Can you say what their name rhymes with?

[937] Man, I can't, I can't, yeah.

[938] Don't throw them by the box.

[939] Don't throw them.

[940] Tell me later.

[941] But what did they say to you?

[942] Like, you have to come up with this character?

[943] Is that what they said to you?

[944] No, I think it was, after I beat Demetrius Johnson, I went to the apex fight with, and I happened to be there randomly.

[945] And then obviously Dana was there at the fights.

[946] And I pulled them aside.

[947] I was like, hey, dinner, let's, you know, how are you, what, now that he actually wanted to talk to me. So he was like, hey, come to my office.

[948] So I ended up, you know, going from the fights to his office.

[949] And we're, you know, I was in his red Ferrari.

[950] Freaking really nice, too, man. And he's like, hey, bud, I just want to let you know that, you know, that I'm thinking, I'm thinking about getting rid of the division.

[951] Or I'm going to get rid of the division.

[952] This is what, right out to epitmetry Johnson, man. You know what I'm saying?

[953] Like, there's new blood.

[954] And he told me straight up.

[955] And I'm just like, man, I have to do something, man. Like if I don't, if I don't start speaking up, if I don't start being hated, like my division is going to drown, man. And it's up to me. And I felt like that's something that Demetrius never did.

[956] So I tell you why?

[957] It wasn't entertaining.

[958] It was, um, people don't, uh, people don't pay attention.

[959] I think because Demetri's are so dominant, like, they don't appreciate true art, man. Like, Demetri's was so dominant that he heard a division because there's like, it gets born.

[960] There has to be a storyline, a storyline to people.

[961] and Demetri's wasn't the most personable dude in the world.

[962] So then I took that upon myself when he said that.

[963] I was like, well, I'm going to have to come up the gimmick.

[964] You know, I was originally, originally I was supposed to go up 235 pounds.

[965] Right.

[966] And I brought TJ down because if I was going to go up to 135 pounds, they were going to strip me from my belt.

[967] They were going to strip me from my belt.

[968] dead man walking going to the way in so like i said as bad as anybody have ever seen besides travis luter but Travis luter was a dehydration thing tj had starved himself down to a skeleton it was real weird and then when you found out that he has taken EPO and then he said that he was taking EPO because he just didn't have any energy from cutting that weight i don't i don't know and i don't know what the answer my brother and then were talking about that yesterday i'm not sure what it was but i'm just uh i felt sick inside when i found out yo like it's it's like a sadness that it brings to you because dude it's like yeah we may talk stuff you know to each other whatnot but it doesn't get that personal oh it shouldn't get that personal for somebody to take an EPO man something that a drug that you just will never get tired than a fight that dude with these four -ounce gloves you know what I'm saying like there's a little bit of malister man so remember that day I call I talked to my brother I talked to my mom like dude the as thick skinned as we grew up and whatnot like this is hurting me man what would you have done if you found out before the fight if they gave you the option i felt so good they pulled if they pulled you aside and said listen henry the fight's going to go on but we got an issue it turns out we just got tj's drug sample back and he tested positive for epio you could still fight him if you want to we're going to strip him we're going to even if he wins we're going to strip him we're going to find him and keep him from fighting for two years he's going to get convicted of using the stuff but you could choose to fight him just don't tell anybody but here's my deal man you can ask you a question like that I got one for you too but a guy can they can say like a guy miss his weight by five pounds he can still fight you that's a fucking big advantage he didn't have to cut those extra five you know how many times guys miss weight and still win it's big it's a big number when guys miss weight and wind up winning the fight I believe who was talking about that One of the commentators might have been Dominic Cruz.

[969] He was talking about guys missing weight and then winding up winning the fight because they have an advantage.

[970] They didn't cut the weight.

[971] We all know there's a certain point in time where you shouldn't lose any more weight.

[972] But we also know there's a dark land where most people don't want to travel through where you can make it through.

[973] You could get to that point where you don't want to do it anymore.

[974] You're fucking dying inside.

[975] But you stay in there an extra 20 minutes and you make the weight or some people don't.

[976] But the guy who doesn't, look, it's bad for your body to cut that much weight.

[977] The guy who leaves those extra five pounds on his body, that's a big advantage.

[978] That's big.

[979] Yeah, it is, but also, it is actually.

[980] What's bigger, that or EPO?

[981] EPO, I imagine, man. Yeah, because, man, TJ was saying how good he felt.

[982] He never felt so good in his life.

[983] I'm just like, I'm just hearing it from him.

[984] Yeah.

[985] But also in that fight, that's when I felt like the most prepared, Joe.

[986] Like, I felt even till now my career, like, I'm retired.

[987] Like, I'm really done.

[988] And that's the best that I've ever felt, man, against T .J. D .L. So I think to answer that question, I think I still would fight him for that reason.

[989] Because I did everything natural and I used science.

[990] Well, you had a really interesting team with you the last time you were here.

[991] What are they called Neuroforce?

[992] Yeah, Neuroforce 1.

[993] And, I mean, without having people go back.

[994] and listen to that podcast, give me this rundown of what they did in terms of like your reaction times and all that specific, sport specific neuro shit they were doing with you because it was really, I say it neuro shit because I'm a moron.

[995] I don't know what the term is.

[996] But it's fascinating, listen to them talk about how they used real science and data to mark your performance.

[997] Yeah, I think everything from like the morning about the time I wake up, I have the omega wave.

[998] And a lot of the credit that I do, O2, is out at the USCPI with Roman.

[999] uh the the physiologist down there and uh it was uh you know i wake up every morning i do i use omega wave which tells me like uh which gives me my heart rate ability it kind of gives me my windows what's it called omega wave yeah omega wave so this is a test trap yeah it's yes a chest that when you wake up when you the first thing you do before you brush your tooth or anything is you put this strap on it and you know it's it's it's it's taking levels of like uh of your heart rate so it allows you and let you know according to your rate your heart rate you're rate how hard you're able to train that day so it gives it into like you got your windows of trainability like how hard you should go and it kind of measures a lot of your training so i do that every morning and then obviously i've done testing with them from balance like just body scan dexas scans like a bunch of things and crazy amounts of uh of testing to kind of figure more out of like my biom mechanics and things of that matter so i only have about three to four hard workouts like a week.

[1000] Like I don't do no more than maybe even three.

[1001] Really?

[1002] Because it's all according because it's about you understanding your threshold.

[1003] And I think where a lot of fighters don't succeed is they exert that and then they want to fight that and then they actually know they're on the ground or they're losing.

[1004] So they're not optimizing their performance by giving themselves an ample amount of recovery.

[1005] They're training too hard too often.

[1006] And yes.

[1007] And using a lot more recovery.

[1008] Like what I do down there is I do a lot of infrared lighting.

[1009] I do altitude.

[1010] altitude pot capsules, the technology that they have.

[1011] Like, there's certain headphones that helps, you know, activate, like, everything in your body.

[1012] Like, it's the new age thing with a lot of, like, pressure machines and things that matter, a lot of, like, you're doing a lot of mobility exercises.

[1013] Like, it's crazy how powerful and how strong you become just through doing mobility, man, understanding posture.

[1014] So, you know, a big shout out to my strength coach, Andre Hicks.

[1015] and Kevin Longoria, Karim Amin, and everybody down there because they're revolutionizing, man. I feel like what, I feel like I'm a head on the curve when it comes to understand how to do a proper camp for MMA, where I'm not extremely killing myself.

[1016] I'm loving the sport through the process like it doesn't always have to be a crazy battle.

[1017] That's a big revelation for a lot of people.

[1018] They're hearing this from you, and they're like, oh, shit, that's crazy.

[1019] This might literally shift the way people train.

[1020] because so many guys are out there leaving it all in the gym.

[1021] They're so tough and they're trying to condition themselves, but there's a, there's a, just like a tipping point where you're working too hard and you're always sore and your body doesn't have a chance to recover and you don't grow.

[1022] You don't get better.

[1023] You just sort of maintain.

[1024] And that's where a lot of guys wind up getting injured as well.

[1025] Yeah, and a lot of that stuff too, it's like when I do my training, it's like I revolve all my training around my sparring.

[1026] Like my sparring is my most important thing.

[1027] So I almost number my workouts On how numbers that should be that day So I'm going to give you example On Monday it could be a 7 and an 8 Two practices right on Monday The next day they're going to be more of like a 4 and a 5 Or a 5 and a 6 It all depends on your on your max You know what I mean on your You know your performance And all the testing that they've done But on Wednesday This is where I got to deliver And this is where I have to give the 10 So it's a sparring day Yes it's a sparring day And there's only one sparring day a week there's two so one's technical and the other one is all right man this is we have the ref i got i got a doctor in there like literally man it's legit like every time i spar the music comes out my opponent's music my music i walk out really i get checked yeah really yeah it's it's done every time uh my my coach captain eric alberison he's uh we've been able to simulate and emulate everything that we that we're gonna do in a fight like even my training like my training is not me doing jiu -jitsu for two hours and then at night I do boxing like no no no I'm in play sparring seeing where I'm doing good in play sparring and then adjusting what I saw in play spawning with the coaches individually and then I'm giving 20 minutes to my to that and then I give 20 minutes to my striking with padwork or it could be with the partner but I'm going the whole time you see what I'm saying so I'm collaborating everything together simulating the fight as much as possible being very detailed in my training and then when it comes to sparring that's that's the real deal that's where i have to shine and that's how i show myself how good i'm becoming are you using are you taking notes like how are you keeping track of your progress are you just knowing in your head or you i know it and i feel it but i also have like a communication with my coaches where they know that i'm extremely honest man i'm not feeling well i'm not about some something i need to rest another two, three hours before I go train today, guys.

[1028] You know what I'm saying?

[1029] It's a very selfish style training and that's a big advantage.

[1030] Yeah, yeah.

[1031] It's, I have given a lot of knowledge here, man, but this is, you know, that's who I am and I want to share what I have.

[1032] I think I've never heard anybody break it down that way, particularly the fact that I don't think I've ever heard if I don't have, I did, I forgot, anybody doing that where you have your opponent's walkout music, you have your walkout music, you have a referee, you do the whole thing like a fight I've never heard anybody do that but that makes sense and particularly if you do it at the Apex Center where there's no crowd it is like doing it in your gym and this is how we trained for Dominique this last camp that I had was like the best this camp that I had with Dominic was like the best fight that the best fight camp I've ever had man like the best because I've learned from like everything that I've done man I've it's almost like I've built this team like I'm not from a team necessarily but I build this team around me according to every opponent that I fight.

[1033] So everybody's moving and everybody's mimicking Dominic Cruz and vice versa for TJ for Marlon.

[1034] Like it's, and these dudes are being compensated.

[1035] These dudes are being paid.

[1036] You know what I'm saying?

[1037] So it's like it's a real business.

[1038] Not just, hey, just go out there and spar them.

[1039] Try everything that you do.

[1040] It's like that, that's, to me, that's like a cut.

[1041] That's like a chicken with his head cut off.

[1042] Like you're not, are you truly improving?

[1043] Right.

[1044] Well, what you're saying, all of it 100 % makes sense.

[1045] I mean, it's brilliant.

[1046] Doing it that way is brilliant.

[1047] And in the process, man, you cut all the bullshit out.

[1048] There's things in jiu -jitsu that doesn't work.

[1049] As a wrestler, which I love, there's things in wrestling that doesn't work.

[1050] And boxing, the distance is different, like all this.

[1051] So you almost have to mimic everything that you do in a very technical sense.

[1052] So when you do this, are you wearing normal four -ounce gloves, the whole deal?

[1053] No, they're more like the sparring gloves, like the, you know, The puffier ones, yeah, because you don't want to, I mean...

[1054] Have you fucked with any of those onyx ones?

[1055] Yeah, yeah, with, yeah.

[1056] How goddamn good are those?

[1057] Those are awesome, man. Those are the best MMA gloves I've ever felt.

[1058] Once these guys decide to truly launch and whatnot, like, I think that company could completely take over, like the...

[1059] That's what I'm saying.

[1060] They make the best shit.

[1061] Dude, he's such a madman about it, too.

[1062] Trevor was on the podcast with Justin and describing his process of making those gloves.

[1063] He got me a pair of them, and he let me try on those MMA ones.

[1064] When you compare them to the U .S. FC one side to side you're like what yeah this is these are crazy good there's so much better they're they're so well designed like everything about it man yeah so it's engineered does the padding is better it's better padding it feels better yes no he's a wizard yeah he makes so you're wearing a slightly larger mama glove yeah yeah slightly larger and i get vaseline the the the pep talks like i'm i'm saying bye to everybody and you it feels so normal for me to compete joe like it's it's crazy really does does feel like a sparring session.

[1065] That's so genius that you reenacted every week.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] Every week, man. So you get accustomed to it.

[1068] Every week.

[1069] And sometimes you're cranking.

[1070] Sometimes you're pissed, but that's even part of how you can feel during fight week.

[1071] You know how many times I fight with my coach, man?

[1072] Like, it's crazy.

[1073] Eric, like, it's like Captain Eric, because it's like, man, we're like brothers.

[1074] Like he's a coach, but he's a brother.

[1075] But you know what I'm saying?

[1076] Right, right.

[1077] So it simulates the fight.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] It's beautiful.

[1080] That's a genius idea, man. It really is.

[1081] And so who's mapping out your training camp?

[1082] like in terms of like when you do strength conditioning when do is it a collaborative effort it's a collaborative effort and a lot of it I I have to pay attention to science so there's things that my coach have said there's things that I have say but it's truly like the science so in terms of your recovery yeah yeah and then what should I eat like everything's calculated and how hard I'm going to go that so my meals are prepped according to every day how hard I'm going to go really yeah so there's times where I'm not going to eat like like when I'm doing a 10 during sparring you know what I'm saying?

[1083] And does this go with, in terms of your preparation, like your pre -workout meals as well?

[1084] Yes.

[1085] So, like, if you know you're going to spar on Wednesday at what time in the afternoon do you spar?

[1086] Sometimes we even simulate the time that we're actually fighting.

[1087] Oh, okay.

[1088] Not always.

[1089] Not always, because you don't want to, you know.

[1090] Yeah, you don't want to always do that.

[1091] When would you eat?

[1092] So, like, if you were going to fight at 8 o 'clock at night, when would you eat?

[1093] Oh, my God.

[1094] But that's, again, a lot of that stuff, you would have to say preference, man. personally i like to have like a big a big brunch and i don't and i only have yeah two o 'clock in the afternoon so you give yourself like five six hours yeah because your nerves like for some reason like your nerves it's hard to digest your food when you're nervous you know what i'm saying when you're anxious to do something so what kind of food do you eat before you fight um eggs pancakes uh obviously i need the carbs or whatnot um just i would just eat normal like bacon like i eat pretty clean throughout throughout about the whole camp but you don't have like specific pre -fight meals that you know no no but i think at that point it's just the psychology side of it you know what i'm saying like i'm gonna eat what what uh the serotonin in my mind like the happiness in me that what it wants you know what i'm saying because i i'm i'm gonna deserve it when i when i fight that night you know what i'm saying yeah yeah like it's a treat like it it brings happiness to you i couldn't do that man the first of that lost at demetra's i was i eat chicken breast Like right after I beat them and veggies.

[1095] Like I was super light, but I had no fat in me. And I got, you know, I got put out.

[1096] And a lot of them, I owe that you have to have every stone.

[1097] You have to, you know, turn every stone, man, because there's a lot of details, man. It's very complex, man. And if you can understand the game on the recovery, on the nutrition, on the happiness, on the preparation, on the game planning, all that.

[1098] I mean.

[1099] So let me ask you this.

[1100] Who is this company that puts these meals together?

[1101] they're basing it on when you say like the meal depends upon the workout like how are they how are they doing that like they're speaking to the physiologists at neuroforce it's crazy yeah so it's almost like there's a team of a shout out to them too my friend's kitchen there's a team of of man maybe 12 people man there's a guy that goes in there every time I fight and he's monitoring my heart rate Every time.

[1102] Like, he says, hey, slow down, slow down.

[1103] And he'll tell the coach, and the coaches will tell me, like, it's all, there's a dude in there warming me up before I go train, like, at my gym, like a personal trainer every single day.

[1104] Do they give you anything specifically right after you're done training to sort of recovery?

[1105] Anything for, like, replenish glycogen?

[1106] Yeah, yeah.

[1107] So that's immediately, what is it, you can.

[1108] I get you can every time.

[1109] What is that?

[1110] It's just a protein.

[1111] Oh, okay.

[1112] It's just a protein that I take soon right after.

[1113] And even the water, man, like alkaline water.

[1114] Mm -hmm.

[1115] So it's all just down to every T is crossed and every I is dotted.

[1116] It's all down to the science.

[1117] Yeah, it's fun.

[1118] It's really interesting.

[1119] And I think if I have a gift than anything, so I've really, I've never seen myself coach, Joe.

[1120] I think being a coach is, I think being a coach is probably the hardest job, man, because you got to do with pride and then you get, and sometimes they leave you or whatnot.

[1121] But if, anyways, if there's one thing that I could do and help people with, as if I was a coach, would be game planning and actually putting like a game plan together and understanding and putting a solid team together.

[1122] When did you start doing this thing where you would emulate your opponents walkout music and your walkout music and the whole deal?

[1123] Since we fought Demetris and since I started having success, actually since Wilson Hayes.

[1124] So as soon as I lost the Benavides, I fought Wilson Hayes and then since there and then it got a little more serious when I fought Demetrius and then so forth we just got better, better through our camp.

[1125] So that was when you decided, okay we're going to make some wholesale changes and this is a big one we're going to reenact is it your idea to do it that way I had to I had no choice yeah because I mean your idea to introduce the fighter and have you introduced and the whole deal have the walkout music no a lot of that was my coach and then a lot of it's me like all right man let's take it to a next level like put me in the back hey sehudo up in five yeah you know what I'm saying right and I've noticed that since I've done that Joe like it's been like dude I feel like I'm walking out why is the hoota getting so better dude it's the comfort of how I feel my like it's a it's a tactical thing that we developed yeah you've yeah you've figured out a way to make it a normal part of your life exactly that's a big thing about fighters returning right that taking a long time off and then coming back it's very difficult because everything feels weird right yeah I remember they were talking about that was sugar A Leonard when sugar A Leonard was in the process of making one of his comebacks that one of things they did is they put together it might have been for the Hagler fight They put together fights in the gym, like that, a real fight in the gym.

[1126] So just get used to it.

[1127] Like you would fight 12 rounds in the gym.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] I guess you go back to it's all, it's hard just simulating, man. It's not.

[1130] But this is the thing, the biggest problem that I've seen, because I've gone through a lot of coaches now, is getting all the coaches on the same page and getting all the coaches, you know, getting them to commit on science.

[1131] Is that all your response?

[1132] Do you have to handle everybody?

[1133] Or does someone, does Captain Eric handle it?

[1134] Yeah, Captain does, he does all that.

[1135] And, you know, not just that, but even, like, for me, it's like stem cells.

[1136] I'm like, I did stem cells in Columbia with bowel accelerator out in Colombia about six months ago.

[1137] Right through my fighting, man, I felt so good for this.

[1138] If I used to have a jacked -up neck, stem cells, like, they did a whole, you know, they did all the scans you could think of, you know, from X -rays to MRIs and whatnot.

[1139] And, you know, they would pinpoint, like, where.

[1140] where my body was an ache.

[1141] And they just started injecting stem cells on me, man, all over my neck.

[1142] Parts of my body that I've never experienced before.

[1143] And immediately my neck started like the same, almost the same day, my neck started feeling better.

[1144] And ever since then, and ever since then, I think three months into it, man, and my neck was 100%.

[1145] Man, I wrestled my whole life.

[1146] Wow.

[1147] My neck jacked up.

[1148] So many people have jacked up necks from wrestling, too.

[1149] Backs, backs, necks, knees and shoulders.

[1150] That's been a big part of my recovery.

[1151] Do you remember specifically what kind of stem cells they were using?

[1152] Did they tell you?

[1153] Well, it's done in Columbia, so the stem cells are being pulled from a baby's umbilical cord.

[1154] So then I'm, you know, so I don't necessarily know the full science of it.

[1155] You know, I guess the basic side of it, but man, I can tell you, my body feels good.

[1156] good yeah it's real shit man it works you know i have uh have had stem cells done on my knee my shoulder i've had a a bunch of different things done injuries and you've done and you've done that here yeah i've done it here yeah i don't know if it's the same level because what i was when i was explaining it to or talking to um one of my friends about it they said what's the difference between that and what they're doing in panama like dr neil reardon he has this clinic down there in Panama they send a lot of fighters down there as well I think they're allowed to do anything I mean they can get buck wild they could fill you up with stem cells like whatever limitations they might have here in America they don't they could just they have a fat syringe with them just fucking get in there I don't know I really wish I knew yeah I don't know if this is true Joe or maybe you can look it up I don't know if I don't know if even animals I don't know if somebody says something is done with the stem cells of an animal of a horse I think what and they're using it on humans Well, see, that would be weird, man. People started growing like horse hair all over their body.

[1157] Damn, that's a trip.

[1158] It didn't happen for two years and two years later.

[1159] People start growing hair, weird hair on their chest and shit.

[1160] I mean, I don't think that's going to happen.

[1161] But I think along the lines of all this medical experimentation, we're going to get some pretty spectacular results, and some of them are going to be bad.

[1162] It just makes sense.

[1163] Someone in some other country is going to take.

[1164] They probably already have.

[1165] They're probably taking some chances and mixed a person with a crocodile or something.

[1166] You know?

[1167] I don't think they've probably done that in some places.

[1168] Right.

[1169] For sure, right?

[1170] China.

[1171] It's crazy what our world is coming to, man. How different it's, like these last 10 years, man, how different has it been?

[1172] You know what I'm saying?

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] These last 10 months, last 10 weeks, things have been crazy.

[1175] It's a weird time to be alive.

[1176] Things are happening very rapidly.

[1177] From the invention of the cell phone, to social media, to the ability to share videos and for people to get information, for people to find out about world events, for people to get together and try to make change.

[1178] It's just a different world, man. It's a different world, in good ways and in bad ways.

[1179] It's a different world.

[1180] People are more disconnected than ever while being more connected than ever.

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] There's a lot of things about this life that are really weird.

[1183] Do you think our world's getting better?

[1184] I have hope, man. When I see, like, yesterday there was part of the George Floyd protest in downtown L .A. Had filled this.

[1185] It's the craziest picture, man. You see the picture of the street filled with people, all nonviolent.

[1186] So all the looting and all that shit seems to have stopped.

[1187] And now the people that remain seems to be, they seem to be dedicated to change in a way that I can't remember anything like this in my life.

[1188] I think this has a real, this man's murder has a real chance.

[1189] of change in the world and changing America for sure.

[1190] I think it really does.

[1191] It has a chance in further bridging the divide between people and to get people to look at things in a better way.

[1192] Like, look how many people got together for this.

[1193] Look how many people.

[1194] I mean, it's it had the real bad parts in the beginning with the looting, but I don't think there's the same people.

[1195] I think those are people that are broke because COVID kept them locked up in their fucking house for a month at a time without any ability to make any money and I think people saw free shit and then everything got wild and it was jumping off and people were smashing windows and a lot of people just stole shit that's what I think but I don't think that's the same thing that's happening I think that's happening along with this protest and but the protests is protest is pretty fucking amazing when you when you think that this in our time we've never had a moment like this where literally the whole country is getting together and saying things have to change and stop.

[1196] They're defunding the Minneapolis Police Department, man. What about, so I wasn't, I don't think it's a good idea.

[1197] Yeah, so I was too young, I guess, so I would ask you for this.

[1198] The Ronnie King shit?

[1199] Yeah, the Ronnie King, yeah.

[1200] I wasn't here for that.

[1201] I watched it on TV, but I was in New York.

[1202] I came here right after the Rodney King shit.

[1203] But the thing about the Rodney King shit was it was confined to L .A. You know, people weren't rioting about Ronnie King in New York.

[1204] It was just an L .A. thing.

[1205] These riots were all over the country, man. I mean, the Freddie, what happened is, what was that guy's name in Baltimore, Freddie Gray?

[1206] That sounds right.

[1207] Yeah, that was the last big one I remember.

[1208] That was about five years ago.

[1209] And when Freddie Gray was killed by the cops, they went crazy in Baltimore and lit everything on fire and smashed everything.

[1210] But it was still just Baltimore, you know.

[1211] With George Floyd, it's the whole country.

[1212] Yeah, now it's just an excuse to It was This is what it is man It's like people are fed up People are pissed Yeah, but it's also They're also broke man They got And it's not through any fault of their own They got stuck In this COVID thing Like we all did And they were forced To not be able to work For months and months at a time And most of them Still aren't back at work Right So they're broke And they're fucked And then this is a chance To steal some shit I don't condone it I don't condone it But I saw a lot of what looked like high school kids running out of those things, holding boxes of sneakers.

[1213] Like, they just were taking advantage of free shit.

[1214] And yeah, there are some bad people in there, too.

[1215] There's some criminals in there, too.

[1216] There's some people that lit, you know, churches on fire.

[1217] There's some people that did some horrible shit.

[1218] But I think the whole movement is not connected to that.

[1219] That's just some people that did some shit, taking advantage of a moment in time where everything went haywire.

[1220] But the people that are marching, they're doing it very peaceful.

[1221] in these enormous groups.

[1222] I think it's got a real chance of being something that that changes the way cops interact with people.

[1223] It's got a real chance because it's so big.

[1224] Yeah, I guess as a fighter, like you don't, you don't like you ever like rough played with your friends when you're a little kid and then all of a sudden there's like a mosh pit, they next you know, you're freaking, you know, you're being suffocated by everybody's way like that feeling like these cops, they think, you know, Sometimes the people that are being arrested, they're fighting men, because that's a lot of pressure on the neck or that's a lot of pressure on the stomach and things like that.

[1225] Right.

[1226] And, you know, so they can make the excuse that you're resisting arrest.

[1227] But look, everyone's going to resist when you put your fucking shin on their neck.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] You know, that's crazy.

[1230] That's torture.

[1231] And also the way the guy was lying down when he had a shin on his neck.

[1232] He was lying with his neck against, like, this drain.

[1233] So there's just like this like cement drain area and his neck is right there.

[1234] So his shin is on the top of his neck.

[1235] and then the drain area is the bottom.

[1236] It's fucking horrible.

[1237] It's horrible to watch, man. It's like you're watching a guy getting tortured to death.

[1238] Like, something has to be done.

[1239] Now, I don't think it's defund the police.

[1240] I think it's definitely get rid of anybody like that guy, and it's retrain them.

[1241] Train them where they realize that, like, there's a chance to do this correctly.

[1242] You have an amazing job.

[1243] Being a police officer is, incredible responsibility and it takes an incredibly powerful person to do it and not abuse the power that you have because people have a tendency when someone says why do I have to do that because I fucking told you I'm the cops like that's what they're doing when they have that kind of power they just go to it right away it's uh you you get you need exceptional people and there's a lot of people that aren't exceptional and some of those become cops and you see these non exceptional people who are cops who abuse the fuck out of the power that they've been given.

[1244] That's the problem.

[1245] I don't think the problem is that we don't need cops.

[1246] Like, Jesus Christ, if someone's breaking in your house, you want to be able to call the cops.

[1247] If you've got a real problem in your life and there's something going wrong, you want to be able to call the cops.

[1248] But the cops have to have a better relationship with the people in their communities.

[1249] Yeah, man, I think out of all this craziness going on, I think at the end, I think people are starting to unite.

[1250] You know what I'm saying?

[1251] Even through this whole COVID stuff, not so much what happened with, like, I think it's, It's made people more aware, man, that anything could come and go, you know what I'm saying?

[1252] Like, look at, look at, it was a revelation for me. Look at, look at Kobe Bryant's situation, man. You know what I'm saying?

[1253] Let's, uh...

[1254] Yeah, even the most wealthy of people could die because of a mistake in a helicopter.

[1255] You know, nothing's going to save you.

[1256] So...

[1257] You don't get saved.

[1258] You mean, the most beloved of people, it doesn't matter.

[1259] You slam into a mountain, you slamming a little mountain.

[1260] Yeah.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] But I think through this whole tragedy, I think, I think everybody will be better off, man. Like, I think we'll be better off as a bunch of, man. Well, yeah, I guess that's the hope.

[1263] We just need, we need more good days, you know?

[1264] Like, you have a good day, and then a bad day, and then another bad day, and then another bad day, and another bad day, and a bad day, and a bad day, and a bad day, and a bad day in a bad week and a bad month.

[1265] That's a lot of people right now, and then the riots broke out, and now the riots are over.

[1266] The looting seems to have stopped.

[1267] The National Guard's moving back out.

[1268] Let's hope people keep it peaceful, and if people keep it peaceful, it peaceful, it, it's It really could change the world.

[1269] It really could.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] Let's hope on that, man. Let's hope.

[1272] So what do you do now, Henry Suhudo?

[1273] Say if you do decide to not fight again.

[1274] You're like, I'm done.

[1275] I did what I had to do.

[1276] I'm triple C. Two world titles and Olympic gold medalist.

[1277] My name is cemented in the history books.

[1278] That's who you are.

[1279] I mean, that's legit.

[1280] I think I programmed Joe to talk like that.

[1281] You see what I said.

[1282] You see my gimmick worked.

[1283] It worked.

[1284] I'm an analyst.

[1285] When I look, if I look at you completely objectively, even if I didn't know you and you're a great guy, and I always enjoy talking to you.

[1286] But if I didn't know you, I'd be like, the motherfucker, like, name someone who's done more.

[1287] Name someone who won two world titles and a fucking gold medal in the Olympics and wrestling and did it all in the most technical of divisions.

[1288] Yeah.

[1289] Like I said, so, like, this is, like, I'm not saying I'm the best fighter in the world because I'm not, man. I would even put Demetius Johnson, like, in front of me. I would put a lot of people in front of you, you know what I'm saying?

[1290] even though I do have a win over him.

[1291] But I wasn't the best wrestler in the, like I wasn't like the greatest in wrestling even though I was an Olympic champion.

[1292] Like I fall into a very secluded group, but I'm one of a lot, you know?

[1293] But I think when you collaborate both of my accolades that I've done in sports, that's where the greatest combat after of all time, you know, comes in.

[1294] And it's, yeah, and it's a gimmick, and I say it a lot, but, you know, part of it is, part of the gimmick is I am telling the truth.

[1295] You know what I'm saying?

[1296] Like, it is me. or not, it's, it's in the conversation.

[1297] You're in the conversation.

[1298] So maybe in the next 20 years, though, uh, it's a conversation.

[1299] Like, I don't know what the, like, there's a lot of people that think it should be GSP and that's in the conversation.

[1300] He's in the conversation.

[1301] It's one of the greatest of all time.

[1302] Some people say, you guys must have forgot how good Anderson Silva was when he was in his prime.

[1303] That's true too.

[1304] That's in the conversation too.

[1305] But, uh, you are as well, man. You really are.

[1306] I mean, whether you, you know, whether you were joking around about it or not, you're in the conversation is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time.

[1307] And there's a real good argument that when you beat the guys who you beat, particularly beating Demetrius Johnson, who was untouchable, you know, beating Dominic Cruz the way you did, which is Dominic Cruz is always known for not getting hit, and you know, you hit him and you hit him a lot.

[1308] And then coming back from the Marlon Marais fight, holy shit, after that first round, to come back and dominate him and just glue yourself to him in the second and then put him away.

[1309] Fuck, man. I mean, those are pretty, pretty powerful accomplishments.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] No doubt about it.

[1312] No, I appreciate it, Joe.

[1313] I appreciate it.

[1314] And I think to answer your question, what's next?

[1315] It's like there's not only the Volcanowski fight that, you know what I'm saying?

[1316] Because he's not that much taller in it, man. I call him an overgrown midget.

[1317] And he's not that much bigger than me. And I feel like, man, I know I could beat him, dude.

[1318] I just know it.

[1319] When you walk around that, when you win?

[1320] Probably about 150.

[1321] 150.

[1322] Yeah, but it almost, it would have to, it would be my, my skill what would you do um to prepare for that would you gain any weight or would you just keep the the body weight you have when you walk around yeah i would try to give maybe another maybe five six pounds but i i wouldn't want to like i would try to do it as natural as i possibly can just to have a little more mass but it's a big jump yeah it does get dangerous man at 45 yeah those 45 or some of them are enormous you know yeah but the other one is and there's actually a you know potential in the talks like Ali's going to talk with Ryan Garcia's manager, possibly making a fight with Ryan Garcia.

[1323] Ryan Garcia is a boxer?

[1324] A boxer.

[1325] You're going to box?

[1326] Why not?

[1327] Why not?

[1328] You'll call me crazy.

[1329] If things iron out, you know, financially and, you know, the cars are played right.

[1330] Yeah, why not?

[1331] He tweeted at me. He says, you know, he pretty much called me out.

[1332] That's the way I took it.

[1333] Tell him as long as long as, you can throw some leg kicks in there you get three leg kicks around yeah so it's been a lot that I've actually been pretty busy like I was with I was with Tyson and I was were at the AEW event I was with them so there's even a potential even crossing over to AEW and or the WWE do you remember PCA karate do you remember that no it was like I think they used to call it the kick of the 90s or the kick of the 80s anyway PKK karate was like kickboxing that you'd watch on ESPN at like 3 o 'clock in the morning like I think Jeff Foxworthy even had a bit about it but it wasn't very good there was some really good fighters like Rick Rufus and there there's a bunch that were real good Jerry Trimble Jerry Trimble but the the majority were kind of second -rate fighters and with no disrespect they weren't they weren't elite and so they had to throw a certain amount of kicks they had to throw like six kicks around.

[1334] Imagine if you had a boxing match where you are allowed to throw just two kicks around.

[1335] Oh Jesus.

[1336] Two leg kicks around.

[1337] That's all I would take.

[1338] Look at that calf kick.

[1339] That calf kick's been killing people.

[1340] You have two that land in a round.

[1341] That's all you're allowed to do.

[1342] And that's all I need.

[1343] That's all I need.

[1344] That would be how fun.

[1345] Against a boxer?

[1346] Heck yeah.

[1347] You're like, these isn't about that.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] Well, even with P .K. karate, all the kicks were above the waist.

[1350] Like a lot of the P .K. That's one of the things that really defined, really woke everyone's eyes up to the power of leg kicks was when Rick Rufus fought this Thai legend.

[1351] God damn it, I'm going to fuck up his name if I don't see it written out.

[1352] But this Thai guy, Rick was fucking him up in the beginning.

[1353] He's real fast and long and hitting him with spinning kicks and shit.

[1354] There's his name.

[1355] Try saying that name.

[1356] C -H -A -G -P -U -E.

[1357] K. Put that on real quick, Jamie.

[1358] Because watch some of the action from that.

[1359] This dude came out and did the Y crew and everything.

[1360] And yeah, just take it from there.

[1361] And Rick Rufus was lighting him up with his hands.

[1362] Rick was really slick.

[1363] And he was probably one of the most talented of all the kickboxers back then that were doing the above the waist style.

[1364] But this dude just kept chopping at his legs, man, and chopping at his legs.

[1365] And he heard him.

[1366] That's what Rick heard him at one point in time.

[1367] He caught him on the right hand.

[1368] It looked like.

[1369] Is that right hand?

[1370] so he had him in real trouble this is round one now this is the first this is the first ever like mixed or yeah it was well one of the first ever this is 1988 and um this is actually when i had oh he heard him again dropped him i think did he kick him in the face on the way down too i mean he had him fucked up in that first round then the fight goes on the dude survives and this was like right around the time i was introduced to uh moitai by this friend of mine that i was training with that was friends with his other dude who was even back in 1988 was taking trips over to Thailand and he was learning from the ties and fighting over there and he would come back with these like crazy gashes on his head from getting elbowed but uh I remember that was the first time anybody had ever kicked me in the leg and I was like oh my God it's so painful and so this is what happens with Rick Rufus Rick Rufus had this dude in all kinds of trouble but this dude, there he is, he's chopping at those legs and chopping at those legs, and Rick doesn't know what to do, and he's chopping at those legs, because Rick's never fought with leg kicks before.

[1371] If you did, he never fought a guy as good as this gentleman.

[1372] So this is the fight that's really known as the fight that changed kickboxing.

[1373] It changed martial arts, because people understood like, oh my God, like what a devastating weapon tie kicks to the thighs are.

[1374] He goes across the front of the thighs.

[1375] Ms. dude just starts killing his thighs.

[1376] And what's really interesting is Rick's brother, Duke Rufus, is now one of the top MMA coaches in the world.

[1377] Look, he's...

[1378] Look, and they're calling time out.

[1379] They're making him sit in the quarter, and they're calling time out.

[1380] His legs are hurt.

[1381] Time out.

[1382] Like, the rules were...

[1383] Even Jamie knows how ridiculous this is.

[1384] The rules were crazy back then.

[1385] I'm getting into this fight.

[1386] Yeah.

[1387] I've seen this before.

[1388] I believe he gets up, and I believe he keeps going, and I believe the dude chops his legs again, and then he's done.

[1389] But is he going to let him go?

[1390] I think they might let him go, or are they stopping the fight?

[1391] Is this crazy?

[1392] Like, they haven't stopped the fight.

[1393] They haven't stopped the fight with leg kicks, even though he clearly got fucked up by leg kicks to the point where he was incapacitated.

[1394] But they're going to allow him to keep fighting, which is just preposterous.

[1395] So he gets to walk it off, like, all right, let's keep going.

[1396] Like, this is how weird martial arts were back then.

[1397] We didn't think that those were legitimate.

[1398] Look at this guy just chopping at those legs, man. Beautiful tie technique.

[1399] just so classic with the stance he's got that the hands way up high over his forehead with that stepping motion so anyway keep it going because they keep going oh man it makes it into the second round you know what this fight reminds me of the beer marius man yeah in a lot of ways except the chopping down in this case worked so he Rick is like really incapacitated by this point and look he just got chopped across the leg again that's only the third round look at that again And boom and boom and boom.

[1400] So what's interesting is Duke Rufus was in his corner.

[1401] And Duke was like 19 at the time.

[1402] He's a baby -faced Duke Rufus, and now was one of the best MMA trainers in the world.

[1403] And Duke was saying, oh, I just don't think it takes that much talent to kick someone in the legs.

[1404] And he became like one of the best coaches and a world champion himself at Muay.

[1405] Like, no, this is how, and this is not to knock Dick or knock Rick Rufus or Duke Rufus.

[1406] They're both awesome.

[1407] This is just to say this was where martial arts was in 1988.

[1408] We really just didn't know.

[1409] There was a developmental period where we just didn't know.

[1410] And see, Rick is just still, they're still going to let him fight.

[1411] Those are hard kicks too, man. Oh, my God.

[1412] I mean, even though they're stopping it like that, those are hard kicks and he's still going to fight.

[1413] He's going to be fucked for weeks, right?

[1414] I mean, look, he could barely walk and they're going to let him keep going.

[1415] Give it a little forward head.

[1416] What is he going to say to him?

[1417] Oh, he's warning him.

[1418] you threw him to the ground.

[1419] Okay, so they tell him you can't dump, which is hilarious, because he's destroying his legs, is what he's doing.

[1420] So they got him in the corner.

[1421] Look at some of this.

[1422] This is the end of the fight.

[1423] The end of fight was ruthless.

[1424] And you've got to think, like, Rick Rufus is so goddamn tough.

[1425] He's so goddamn tough to just have endured this.

[1426] Because he doesn't know how to check it.

[1427] He's just taking them all.

[1428] Like, there.

[1429] Like, boom, and that was it.

[1430] That last one, dude.

[1431] High, high shins.

[1432] bone across the thigh and I think that's the end of the fight if I remember correctly yeah that's it it's another one oh my god they let them get back up they dusted them off he's still just getting fucking it's all leg kicks man it's crazy oh I'm surprised he's dude he's taking a lot of pain man do you imagine how horrible this must have been to him that was the end that we did before yeah that's the end is that the end of the fight or does it keep going Oh, it is the end.

[1433] Oh, because it just replays, all the other stuff?

[1434] Yeah.

[1435] I'm pretty sure that was the end.

[1436] We were watching the same round three times.

[1437] I don't know.

[1438] No, I think it went three rounds, if I remember correctly.

[1439] But it was just a horrific example of how this is the development of martial arts, right?

[1440] I mean, this is, like, one of the steps on the way to the UFC is that we had to realize about leg kicks.

[1441] It's a ruthless fight to watch.

[1442] He looks like he's in super pain.

[1443] Oh, my God, dude.

[1444] Well, you remember that one cat that fought in the UFC?

[1445] that almost lost his leg due to compartment syndrome did you ever see that scar no you want to you want to freak out maybe you rethink a comeback i'm gonna show you something this dude had compartment syndrome in his thigh um sorry i'm blanking on his name austin hubbard austin hubbard who's a tough motherfucker that's him okay and uh they cut him from his ankle all the way up to the top of his thigh yeah you're scared you're freaking out well i'm trying to find a good they're all the disgusting because once people have uh photoshopped it oh that's his leg look at that what is it yeah exactly what is that that's his fucking leg his leg is so it was so swollen and destroyed and the tissue was so fucked up that big thing on the tube is a drain to drain all the swelling in the fluid so they had to open up his leg i mean it's one of the biggest scars i've ever seen it goes all the way down to his knee like from the top of his hip all the way down to his knee and they had to open his leg up because after the fight his leg was just destroyed look at that who's that i don't know i thought that might have been it because it's coming up i don't think so that guy's got ever last shorts on i don't think that's the same cat i don't know there's a lot of those dudes um from moitai fights afterwards they have giant swollen legs but that was that was definitely his leg because john annick showed it to me in between fights and he's like have you seen hubbard's injury and I'm like oh I heard about it he's like no no no you got to see it look look that's what it looked like why he's look at the size of that scar man and look at the blackness of all the tissue like it's all rotting and it's all destroyed from shins brother that's terrifying that fucking shit is terrifying and that is what Rick rufus went through just got his legs destroyed I think I think I'm going to stay retired I forget What were we Yeah it did Yeah it looked like Like some pulled pork Stravia What were we just talking about We brought that up No what was next We were just talking about that career And you were talking about possibly boxing Yeah possibly Ryan Garcia Man so That's just for a giant payday Yeah Yeah Obviously to win Obviously to fight To challenge yourself He's in the boxers don't get as crazy as we do You know what I mean?

[1446] They don't get crazy heavy But I'm walking around 150 So if we do fight it would probably be at 35 Which is good I think I think McGregor I think McGregor I think McGregor's lending with With Mayweather I think if Ryan wants to do it Then I think it's...

[1447] How much time would you need to prepare for something like that?

[1448] Probably about two to three months About three months Three months Yeah And like three months at least How much on a regular basis is boxing a part of your workout.

[1449] I know that you did a lot of amateur boxing right out of your Olympic career.

[1450] You went right into amateur boxing.

[1451] You did that for how long?

[1452] I did that for three years.

[1453] And that was thinking about trying to make the Olympic team again.

[1454] Now, once you went back to MMA training, how boxing focused is your MMA training?

[1455] It's a lot, but it's also different.

[1456] You know what I'm saying?

[1457] So now it's just, I don't even call it Maitai or boxing.

[1458] Like, it's all, it's just MMA.

[1459] You know what I'm saying?

[1460] Because at distance, everything's just different.

[1461] And then you got to do it according to your style, man, according to what you, what you feel comfortable throwing.

[1462] So all of your workouts are MMA.

[1463] They're all.

[1464] Yeah, they're all.

[1465] I'm cutting all the bullshit out, man. I think when you get to that level where, okay, man, two, two hours striking class is just too much.

[1466] Right.

[1467] You know what I'm saying?

[1468] Two hours of jit -to class, that's not MMA base.

[1469] It's not good, and it would be too much.

[1470] What about when you're done with a fight?

[1471] When you're done with a fight in between fights, do you, do you, or do you?

[1472] workout just to stay fit?

[1473] Do you work out for fun?

[1474] Do you go and do like a jih Tzu class with a Gion or anything like that?

[1475] Or do you stick to sports specific workouts even in between fights?

[1476] Yeah, even in between fights.

[1477] Or I could return, depending on the art that I've really got to develop so I could go back to just a two -hour class in boxing or an hour and a half of boxing, an hour of just pure wrestling.

[1478] So you have the ability to do that, but there comes a time where you just got to get, maybe within eight to nine weeks, okay, you got to transition.

[1479] just MMA specific and then having your partner.

[1480] Josie Aldo had a different style than Dominic.

[1481] You know what I'm saying?

[1482] And I was able to understand Dominic for, because he was the last minute replacement the last four weeks.

[1483] And how much time do you spend and how much effort do you spend weeding out sparring partners and getting the right ones?

[1484] And how important is that for a camp?

[1485] That's my coach's job.

[1486] You know what I'm saying?

[1487] That's for him to call and to see and the people that we know and trust and all that.

[1488] And the other thing is, it's hard what I do.

[1489] I mean, I got a guy alternating like every round.

[1490] I'm doing a five -round fight, and I got a fresh dude in every round, do when I'm going hard.

[1491] Right.

[1492] You know what I'm saying?

[1493] So a lot of like the practices that I'm doing, like I'm really investing in what I'm doing and sparring.

[1494] Do these guys know you already?

[1495] I mean, have you trained with them previously when they make it to a camp or these are the first time you've ever trained with them?

[1496] Yes, the first time you ever train with them.

[1497] So it becomes a very, it's a relationship, but it talks to a very business.

[1498] like you know what i'm saying it's like hey man you're you're so focused and you'll be compensated to do such and such you know what i'm saying and when you say that like say if you're fighting someone who has like an unusual southpaw style they have to they when they spar with you they should be sparring from a south paw style yeah south paw style and always even from the height like i don't i don't if i'm when i fought dominic everybody had to be exactly dominant size and they had to be able to move like him or try to move like in the best as possible so i'm not sparring with the guys about my size right right you know what i'm saying yeah so it depends who i'm you're fighting too how hard is it to get a guy to mimic dominic cruz actually they're out there man there's a lot of guys that grew up watching dominic fight a lot of there's a guy at our gym a couple guys at our gym that emil that moves just like dominant yeah so he's he's with his whole art like they studied him they were able to develop certain things and they're they're the ones that were telling me they don't don't even go for the smoke bomb the hands take the legs off smoke hand the hands take the legs off and something that i saw from from this whole COVID thing, from finding an empty arena is our corner, we were prepared.

[1499] Check this out, Joe.

[1500] Like, this is how prepared we're like.

[1501] We're even prepared to the point we're using cold words.

[1502] You know what I'm saying?

[1503] So every time I heard spaghetti, take the legs out.

[1504] Pumpkin, you know, let's start going up top.

[1505] You know what I'm saying?

[1506] Potatoes is, you know, it's stick in the bodies.

[1507] You know what I'm saying?

[1508] I can hear clearly what Donoenix corner was saying during the fight.

[1509] They're like, left high kick.

[1510] I could hear it, man. I'm just like, So it made me understand that maybe the sport of fight, maybe it's just you fighting.

[1511] But when you're able to study just like even your surroundings, you understand that, dude, this is a team sport, man. Was that weird that you could hear the coaches so many clues?

[1512] It was fun.

[1513] It was fun.

[1514] It was fun.

[1515] And it was fun, man. I don't know how the other people, I fought with the, I've been fighting with tons of people in the crowd.

[1516] Like, it was fun to just hear the corners, man. Like, it was a treat for me?

[1517] Was it weird that that's going to be your last fight?

[1518] At least you've experienced it.

[1519] wants right to do it that way i think that's why i liked it he goes so personal but man i've i know every detail in the ufc from the security guard to highly like i had a relationship with these people with jeff navisky i'm able to you know what i'm saying without having to take a picture or a fan wants to see you yeah i'm giving back to the people that have that have been here the last i don't know what five six years was it more or less relaxed when there's no audience more relaxed more relaxed yeah way more relaxed seems like it would be look at the fights man look at this card man you think the fights should be like that if there's a big crowd like people who are into their groove man whether you're winning or losing maybe it would well there's also the factor of the smaller octagon what do you think about that they're using for the apex center the 25 foot octagon I love it yeah I think it's you want to see blood Joe no it's not that I want to see blood I want to see exchanges I feel like you can still move in a 25 foot octagon you can still get away from shit but you shouldn't be able to get away from everything all the time like the bigger the octagon the more it comes to...

[1520] If you're going to use an oxygen at all, I think the smaller one's better.

[1521] My feeling is you shouldn't use anything.

[1522] My feeling is it should be in a football field.

[1523] Mad up a fucking football field.

[1524] I'm for real.

[1525] I'm not joking.

[1526] I've said this a million times.

[1527] You just let go up the stairs.

[1528] Well, where there's no obstacles, no wall to press someone up against.

[1529] If someone gets up, they have to get up on their own.

[1530] Like, they have to be flat on their back in the middle of nowhere, and they can't use the wall to get up.

[1531] I feel like there's a factor and I don't think it's a good or a bad thing, but there is a recognizable factor that the cage provides.

[1532] The good thing, if you wanted to say a good thing, the smaller cage is better because they can't go anywhere.

[1533] The bad thing that there's a cage at all, and that it does get in the way, it does become a thing.

[1534] Like when someone's clenching you against the cage and neighing you, your back is against a cage.

[1535] There's a barrier.

[1536] You're stuck.

[1537] I feel like it would be better if there wasn't a thing that someone could press you against that would be good for their advance.

[1538] Do you know what I'm saying?

[1539] Yeah, yeah.

[1540] No, I hear you, but it also, so it's almost like the kumete.

[1541] Yeah.

[1542] You know, and that obviously, but bigger.

[1543] Yeah, bigger.

[1544] Just a big open, like basketball size court.

[1545] Put some crocodiles out.

[1546] No. No, just have it.

[1547] Make it real right, a big wave on the other side.

[1548] And I could argue that, you look, it's a dumb argument because I also think that it's better to have a 25 -foot octagon than it is to have a 30 -foot octagon.

[1549] I think it's better to have it smaller, so you can't get away.

[1550] If you're going to have a thing where, someone can press someone against it.

[1551] I think it should be smaller.

[1552] But I'm a moron.

[1553] You don't have to listen to me. Yeah, no. I get you, it's, it's, you know, if you're fighting in the woods sometime.

[1554] What would you prefer?

[1555] Would you prefer the larger octagon that you fought in in Jacksonville or the smaller one, like the Apex Center, for your style?

[1556] As a wrestler, if I'm going to wrestle, it's going to be the smaller one.

[1557] I fought them both.

[1558] As if I was a striker, if I was like somebody like, you know, just one of the strikers, I would, A good striker, maybe Sean, maybe O'Malley, I would need a bigger cage because the rest is out there to cut distance.

[1559] If you know how to use a cage, it's a powerful tool.

[1560] What do you think about the possibility becoming a coach?

[1561] Is that something you really consider because you were kind of talking about the heartbreaks of it and why I think you would be an amazing coach?

[1562] Yeah, but maybe to a certain extent, man. Maybe to the right people.

[1563] Yeah, exactly.

[1564] It's hard, Joe.

[1565] It's hard, man. This is why because there's some people, you know, we talked about heart.

[1566] and ability today.

[1567] It's like, there's some people that have a lot of heart, but their ability is just like, dude, when are you going to get it?

[1568] Right, right.

[1569] Or vice versa.

[1570] So I think because I know what it takes, and if I don't see that from a certain person, then I just, I can't be a part of it.

[1571] But let me put this in your head.

[1572] Think about this team that you put together.

[1573] Think about this scientific approach that you guys put together for formulating your camps, whether from nutrition and training and recovery and all that stuff.

[1574] Now imagine doing the same sort of work with bringing you disciples.

[1575] someone who puts the same amount of effort into finding fighters that are worthy of your kind of coaching you could develop a fucking empire yeah yeah maybe maybe come on son maybe but it's not i want to get into a real estate man i want to do uh do yeah i want to i want to do that i want to do i want to get paid man i i love freedom joe more than anything man like i've competed my whole life from age 11 joe i have over like 600 maybe 700 wrestling matches competitions man boxing, wrestling.

[1576] From age 11 and 33, that's all I've ever done.

[1577] That's all I've ever known was competition to compete.

[1578] I'm done, Joe.

[1579] Unless that Ryan Garcia, maybe the Volcanowski, but even then, if it doesn't happen or whatever, it's okay, man. I'm happy.

[1580] Whatever happens, man. What you've accomplished so far has been truly spectacular.

[1581] And I really believe that you could do anything you want.

[1582] Whatever it is, whether you decide to focus on real estate or anything.

[1583] A man who can do what you've done can do anything.

[1584] And I think it's one of the best lessons of martial arts.

[1585] You know, the amount of power that you have to have in your mind to push your body to do what you've done, to push your will, to get those workouts in and to compete when it's game day.

[1586] You've done that.

[1587] You've done it in a way.

[1588] Like, you've overcome the battle.

[1589] And you're getting out while you're still fresh.

[1590] You're a young man. You're 33.

[1591] 33.

[1592] That ain't shit.

[1593] You're a young man. You have all this energy, man. I got some hairs on my, I got some grays of my, you've had a very strenuous life.

[1594] I mean, you know, very few people have put their body to the kind of strain that you have in all those 33 years, but you could do anything, man, anything, whatever you want.

[1595] And you get out with your wits intact.

[1596] Yeah, no, thank you, Joe.

[1597] Thank you for, man, thank you for everything, man. This was a fun time.

[1598] You know, getting a chance to share my knowledge and obviously getting a chance to hear your knowledge.

[1599] And it's been a good time.

[1600] I just want to, can I, you mind if I give a couple thank you.

[1601] I want to give a special thank you to my new sponsor, Smart Cups.

[1602] That was just your friend who owns Smart Cups.

[1603] Yeah, Chris Coneck.

[1604] He just showed me a video of what it is.

[1605] Can we say it?

[1606] Yeah, go ahead.

[1607] You want to explain it?

[1608] They figured out a way to have a 3D print nutrients and flavor into cups.

[1609] So you take the cup.

[1610] It's the craziest shit I've ever seen.

[1611] There's a cup.

[1612] You buy like a box cups.

[1613] Take the cup.

[1614] You pour the water.

[1615] in the cup and it turns into this electrolyte drink because the 3D printing of all the stuff is actually on the surface of the cup it's pretty fucking badass it's a trip so let's say like I'll give you an example let's say you know you go to a ballpark and you want a lime like the ballpark's for 50 ,000 people it's the world champion they're going to have a bunch of limes like that dude it's expensive and there's like a fee that's what it looks like folks so that's with the 3D printing flavor and nutrition that's in these cups yeah for so for instance that picture right there Like, if you like your beer with lime, like, that would have a printed, like, actual lime.

[1616] So you could have a cup that was a lime cup.

[1617] You pour your beer into the, like you say, if you have a corona, you pour it into the lime cup and you get that lime flavor in your beer.

[1618] No, but check this out, too.

[1619] Sometimes you don't even need alcohol.

[1620] You just need water.

[1621] Because there's already, like, uh...

[1622] Alcohol in there?

[1623] Yeah, there could be, yeah, you just need water turns into beer.

[1624] So, there's a mad scientist next to you.

[1625] Is that real?

[1626] Yeah.

[1627] That's crazy.

[1628] That's crazy.

[1629] So it's a trip Well listen brother I've said it before But I really mean it It is an honor to call your fights One of the coolest things About being a fan of the UFC And then being able to be a commentator It's like I know I've experienced history You know I've been there And I've you know I've had this incredible Job Where I get to talk During some of the greatest fights of all time And try to do justice to those fights And try to let people know How insanely impressive of some of these performances that you've accomplished have been to me as a person who's been watching fights my whole life.

[1630] So as a fan and as a person who gets to do it professionally, it's been an honor, for real.

[1631] Thank you, Joe.

[1632] Thank you, Joe.

[1633] That means a lot to me. That means a lot to me. Thank you for giving you the platform.

[1634] Like, I haven't really, you know, shared a lot of things that I've shared today.

[1635] And there's no other platform here than the Joe Rogues show.

[1636] I'm honored, brother.

[1637] Thank you so much for being here.

[1638] Thanks to everybody for listening.

[1639] Henry Sohudo, it's over, baby.

[1640] He's done with you, people.

[1641] Intergender champ!

[1642] Intergender chap!