Julianna Margulies

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dachshepard.

[2] I'm joined by the Duchess of Duluth.

[3] Oh, I love that that's going to catch on.

[4] Oh, I'm excited.

[5] The Duchess of Duluth took me one half millisecond to remember Duluth.

[6] Good job.

[7] I don't associate...

[8] Milford.

[9] God bless you.

[10] I don't associate a D with your town.

[11] It's really the D. Once I get the D, boom, Duluth.

[12] Oh, my God.

[13] You know what's amazing?

[14] What?

[15] D for Duluth and Dax.

[16] M for Milford and Monica.

[17] Oh my gosh.

[18] Ding ding ding ding ding ding today we have a really wonderful guest.

[19] Incredibly.

[20] Juliana Margilees.

[21] Juliana Margulise is an Emmy Golden Globe and Screen Actors Guild Award winning actress.

[22] You met and fell in love with her on ER.

[23] The love affair continued on The Good Wife.

[24] That's right.

[25] Very popular, very successful show, very trusted brand.

[26] She has a new book an autobiography, Sunshine Girl, an unexpected life filled with intimate stories and revelatory moments.

[27] Sunshine Girl is at once unflinchingly honest and perceptive.

[28] It is a riveting self -portrait of a woman whose resilience in the face of turmoil will leave readers intrigued and inspired.

[29] We were inspired by Juliana.

[30] She's one of those actresses.

[31] She's like a Julia Louis -Dreyfus.

[32] And Kristen, she's an acting robot.

[33] She's perfect every time.

[34] She's perfect.

[35] And she's pretty gangster, too.

[36] Yes, she's fine.

[37] She's made some bold decisions that we talk about.

[38] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[39] So please enjoy Juliana Margulies.

[40] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[41] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[42] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[43] He's an armchair expert.

[44] Hello.

[45] Hi.

[46] Hi.

[47] Oh, my God.

[48] I mean, there's so many things I need to tell you.

[49] Please, tell them all to me. First of all, you were the first podcast I ever experienced.

[50] In your whole life?

[51] Yeah, I didn't listen to any of them until the lockdown.

[52] What one did you start with?

[53] I feel like I have gone through this entire period of pandemic with Dax Shepherd.

[54] Like, literally, I ordered my garden listening to Bill Gates.

[55] Monica has become, like, the soothing voice I want to hear.

[56] Also, I'm embarrassed, but literally I just came back from the eye doctor and I was listening to you guys with Prince Harry.

[57] And I was like, wow, he had the balls to talk about the calendar.

[58] I'm so impressed on so many levels.

[59] I can't even tell you.

[60] But, yeah, so I had never listened to podcasts.

[61] I never had time.

[62] People kept saying, you know, podcast this and whatever.

[63] And there I was in the kitchen every night, like, cooking by myself.

[64] And I was like, I want company.

[65] I need to hear human voices.

[66] Yeah.

[67] And you guys were the first I downloaded.

[68] And I have to tell you, you really kept me company.

[69] So thank you.

[70] Oh, my gosh.

[71] I think it's great for you guys to understand something because, you know, you're in your studio doing your thing, right?

[72] And I went on six mile walks through cowfields with you guys.

[73] I planted my first garden with you guys.

[74] I would cook meals listening to you guys.

[75] So my husband's from Michigan.

[76] Oh, get out.

[77] No, yeah, from Ann Arbor.

[78] Oh, dad must have taught at you of M or something?

[79] He was the head of the Polly Side Department.

[80] Yeah, because your father -in -law is a brainiac, right?

[81] Yeah, I'm married up.

[82] Yeah, yeah, him and my husband both and my father.

[83] Like, they all went to Dartmouth.

[84] They're all Dartmouth people.

[85] My dad, my uncle, his dad, his grandfather, him, his brother.

[86] Do you have a fear that your son will soon be like an intellectual tower?

[87] And you'll be like, oh, my gosh.

[88] He already is.

[89] Oh, he already is.

[90] He's like, he goes, no real such thing is the present mom.

[91] And I go, because, and he goes, because it just passed.

[92] Oh, wow.

[93] Got you.

[94] Yeah.

[95] We should put that on a t -shirt.

[96] And my dad and my husband both were Dartmouth philosophy majors.

[97] And I just looked at Keith over the dinner table and I went and there you go.

[98] uh -huh okay great so you married your dad right that's what that's the goal i didn't i didn't it just happened that way they couldn't be more different well they're similar in their intellectual paths but they're but they're thank god very different i married my mom it doesn't seem like it on the surface but then if i really look at it there are carbon copies separated by you're right i probably married oh jesus here we go we're five minutes in and we're already having breakthroughs.

[99] I wanted in on that conversation with Harry so much.

[100] The amount of therapy that was going on in that podcast was just beyond.

[101] Then I kept going, that's Prince Harry.

[102] I know.

[103] They're talking.

[104] It's crazy.

[105] Harry, you guys.

[106] Are you right now chewing tobacco?

[107] You don't need to tell everyone that.

[108] Yeah, you do.

[109] Yeah, I'm in a bad spell.

[110] I had never met a tobacco chore until I married a Dartmouth guy.

[111] One of his fraternity brothers came to my house.

[112] I threw my then -boyfriend, now has been a surprise birthday dinner.

[113] And I was like, don't tell him.

[114] It's going to be a big surprise.

[115] And there was Adam Dixon.

[116] I will never forget it.

[117] And he walked in with a spittoon.

[118] Sure, sure.

[119] Well, you got to travel with one.

[120] He spit all through dinner.

[121] Oh, it's all through dinner.

[122] I was like, well, eating and dipping.

[123] And like each course I made that whatever.

[124] And I was like, that's so sexy, Adam.

[125] So sexy.

[126] Okay.

[127] Okay.

[128] For the record, I do not do it at the dinner table.

[129] I mean, not during...

[130] Well, you do it at the dinner table.

[131] During cards.

[132] Yeah, not during an active meal.

[133] By the way, I need to tell you, I'm not judging at all.

[134] Okay.

[135] Judge not, let's you be judged.

[136] I am not judging.

[137] I just find it.

[138] Listen, it's better than...

[139] It's disgusting.

[140] Honey, it's better than crack.

[141] So you go.

[142] Just hardly.

[143] Just hardly.

[144] Yeah, it's objectively the grossest habit you could have.

[145] Okay.

[146] And I'm going to tell you what I told my eight -year -old who monitors this like ever.

[147] day, all day, right?

[148] I've been on a real long stretch, six weeks in a row of traveling.

[149] I'm home for two days a week.

[150] And then I'm back out in some desert filming this car show.

[151] And as grateful as I am for it, it's also very uncomfortable.

[152] And I'm lonely and I want to be home.

[153] And everyone else can have a couple cocktails at night.

[154] I can't.

[155] And I told my daughter, like, I'm going to chew tobacco until this thing's over.

[156] And I do quit a ton.

[157] I will give myself that credit.

[158] But damn straight.

[159] But yes, it's disgusting.

[160] Yeah, I don't know.

[161] I think you got to do what you got to survive.

[162] my worst moments I've convinced myself that some people might even find it attractive because you're almost, here's what it signals to me. Like if you dipped, I want to be honest, Kristen dipped for a year.

[163] She did?

[164] Which would shock people.

[165] Yes, she dipped for a year.

[166] Thank you.

[167] So if I saw Gail dipping, this is what I would get subconsciously, I'd be like, oh, she doesn't give a fuck.

[168] Like, that's objectively unattractive.

[169] What I'm doing is unattractive.

[170] But there's some subtext that's like, well, this person's so confident.

[171] They're not afraid to be openly unattractive.

[172] And I think I might get attracted to it.

[173] Right.

[174] I get it.

[175] I understand that.

[176] Yeah.

[177] Us human beings, we're all such complicated people, aren't we?

[178] Oh, it's so silly.

[179] Monica and I always talk about the aliens above us watching the monkeys.

[180] And so much of the stuff we do just doesn't make any sense to them.

[181] I know.

[182] I know.

[183] So how was quarantine?

[184] You guys have been married for the same amount of time.

[185] Kristen and I've been together, but I presume you dated prior to the 14 years of marriage.

[186] So we've been married 13 and a half years.

[187] And we've been together 14 and a half.

[188] Okay.

[189] So we're on a similar timeline.

[190] Yeah.

[191] How was the one year quarantine together?

[192] And don't lie to me. I'm not going to lie.

[193] I'm so uninterested in lying.

[194] That was in my 20s and 30s.

[195] For survival?

[196] Yeah, I have to say, and I know it's going to sound gross.

[197] I literally married a rock.

[198] I married just the most stable human being who looks at all sides before he react.

[199] who always finds the good in people.

[200] There's not a mean bone in his body.

[201] Not that he's a pushover.

[202] I mean, and what he does for a living is so sexy to me now.

[203] He does analytical intelligence.

[204] Oh.

[205] He was pretty much glued to the desk the entire time because their business blew up.

[206] Oh, okay.

[207] Yeah, so basically two guys from MI6 started this company called Hacklett about 15 years ago.

[208] And Keith, they vetted him for nine months before he, They hired him, and he just found his stride.

[209] So I didn't see him most of the day.

[210] To be honest with you, he was always...

[211] Oh, that's helpful.

[212] Yeah, which got tricky at times.

[213] He came home from work on March 11th and said, let's pack our bags and go upstate.

[214] Oh, wow.

[215] He was that ahead of it.

[216] Last year.

[217] Yeah, because they have to...

[218] They're dealing with global everything.

[219] Sure.

[220] And I said, really?

[221] For her, like, how I goes, I don't know, let's pack for two weeks.

[222] And we felt very grateful that we have this house.

[223] in upstate New York, and we did, and we stayed there for eight months.

[224] Oh, wow.

[225] I didn't see him a lot.

[226] There were moments.

[227] I had some meltdowns just because he's so in his head, and I would be like, it's been six months, and you have walked by the laundry basket, and it's overflowing.

[228] And you never once said, babe, I'm going to do the laundry.

[229] Like, not once.

[230] Yeah.

[231] And I would have those moments of just, because I was the one going in the grocery store, I was the one I cook.

[232] He doesn't cook.

[233] Like, I just felt like I was doing everything.

[234] Plus, I was finishing a book and I was recording a documentary for PBS.

[235] And I'm computer illiterate completely.

[236] So I was like downloading one line at a time because I didn't think.

[237] And he got the master bedroom, which is like my sanctuary.

[238] Oh, yeah.

[239] Yeah, there were some stuff.

[240] There were moments.

[241] But here's the other podcast I started listening to was Esther Perel.

[242] Do you guys know her?

[243] Oh, me. Yeah, she's incredible.

[244] Impossible.

[245] So I would go off on these crazy six -mile walks because that's what kept my head clear, listening to either you guys.

[246] Each one is about an hour.

[247] So it would take me about an hour, 45 or whatever.

[248] And I would listen to her with these couples.

[249] And I would go running home and just throw the door open and throw my arms around his neck and go, my God, we're so lucky.

[250] Yeah, I hadn't even thought of that.

[251] If you listened to, is it mating in captivity?

[252] Yeah.

[253] Where she goes through the infidelity.

[254] Oh, my God.

[255] Oh, my God.

[256] It's so fascinating.

[257] But you're right.

[258] It could inadvertently give you a lot of gratitude for the relationship you have.

[259] Yes.

[260] You can't help but compare.

[261] And you up compare as a human, but it's healthy.

[262] Like, there's this great book, Broken Ladder, and it talks about how our country is unique in that we up compare all the time.

[263] But there are countries and cultures that down compare.

[264] So they're living in a state of gratitude most time.

[265] Right.

[266] It's so true.

[267] I mean, I do have to say, I don't know if it's that I met Keith at the right time in my life or that I've outgrown my insecurities that I used to have.

[268] And I write about this actually in my book where I say I was with a guy where I was always looking and comparing other people in the restaurant and wanting to be at their table.

[269] And I didn't even know them and thought that they had a better life than me. Yeah.

[270] And now with Keith, like from the first date we had, I just don't want to ever be at anyone's table except the one I'm at.

[271] Oh, my God.

[272] What a beautiful thing to say.

[273] Yeah.

[274] Hold down, though.

[275] Now I'm wondering, because I'm of the opinion generally, like, anyone who thinks any relationship is going to be easy is just foolish.

[276] They're all a beat down.

[277] But maybe not.

[278] Yeah, so I always thought relationships had to be difficult, which is why I was always in a difficult relationship.

[279] Oh, okay.

[280] There's another version?

[281] There's another version.

[282] Sorry, but there is.

[283] So he, early on, really early on.

[284] So Keith's six years younger than I am.

[285] Early on when our baby was about eight months old, I had a major meltdown because I had cooked him this huge dinner with all his friends and I knew I'd be up at five with the baby.

[286] I wanted to give him a night to himself, whatever.

[287] And the next morning after I'd cleaned everything and I'd taken care of the baby, he came downstairs in his robe and I handed the baby to him and I said, I need one hour to myself.

[288] And he said, sure, babe, of course.

[289] and he took the baby and I got my Sunday times and I went out on the porch with my bowl of cereal and I just wanted to read the paper and eat my cereal in peace and within five minutes there was a baby tugging up my nightgown and I looked back and Keith's in the living room legs crossed with the newspaper open and his cup of coffee and I lost it.

[290] Lost it.

[291] And I literally walked out of the house in my pajamas and just kept walking.

[292] Thank God we live in the boondocks and no one's really around.

[293] I literally just walked for hours, sobbing.

[294] And I came back and he was white as a ghost with the baby.

[295] He's like holding the baby.

[296] And he said to me, honey, I'm so sorry.

[297] I need you to know I never, ever wake up in the morning thinking how can I fuck up Julianna's day?

[298] Ever.

[299] It's the last thing on my mind.

[300] I fucked up.

[301] I'm, please forgive me. It will never happen again.

[302] And it was like that moment where my brain clicked and I went, why would I think that he would want to fuck up my day?

[303] Because I've been in relationships.

[304] Yeah.

[305] The history of my relationships, I always felt like someone was trying to fuck up my day.

[306] Yeah, yeah.

[307] And when he said it so plainly and I could see his face had just fallen, I really truly believed it.

[308] And it is true.

[309] And the last thing he wants to do is upset me. But it took me a long time to believe it.

[310] Yeah.

[311] Oh, man. I had such a similar thing early on with Kristen, which is she comes from a family that loves to do each other favors.

[312] And I come from a family that's like, everyone's overloaded.

[313] Don't be a drain on anyone.

[314] That's how you show people you love them.

[315] You're independent.

[316] We both be sitting on the couch and she'd go, huh, could you grab me a glass of water?

[317] And I'm like, I'm not closer to the fucking sink than you are.

[318] Like, what are you talking about?

[319] It was insane to me. And I did have to get to the point where I was like, oh, yeah, she is a good human being.

[320] She's not out to get me. Like, I had to decide she wasn't out to get me or exploit me or have leverage over me. But it's so crazy.

[321] But yeah, I think I had come from a background where I just assumed everyone was trying to basically exploit me. Right.

[322] And now you have to change your narrative because that's not the family you live with anymore.

[323] Mm -hmm.

[324] I'm already seeing a pattern in you.

[325] And I like this, which is you don't really care if people are flawed.

[326] as long as they own it and then they make an amends right because you have kind of a powerful story about your father that's very similar and your response to him i thought was gracious and lovely you have a very weird childhood weird in quotes in that you moved around a ton right your parents got divorced at some point and you moved to paris you also moved to hold on it's in my head england sussex and sometimes duca sussex do you think that was why you You might have been particularly interested in Prince Harry because of the Sussex?

[327] Always.

[328] Okay.

[329] Of course.

[330] Okay.

[331] So what age does the like stable nuclear married parents pretty much set in one area of New York?

[332] When does that explode?

[333] What age?

[334] A year old.

[335] Oh, a year old.

[336] So right out of the gates.

[337] Yes.

[338] Oh.

[339] Right out of the gate.

[340] So my parents separated when I was a year old.

[341] Okay.

[342] And my father moved to Paris to work for an accident.

[343] advertising company.

[344] And we were in Spring Valley, New York, where I was born, where they had moved to.

[345] And then a year after he lived in Paris, my mother moved me and my sisters.

[346] She was like, I'm not going to stay in the suburbs while he's in Paris.

[347] That's just ridiculous.

[348] Yeah, yeah.

[349] And so we lived on the left bank with my mom and my father lived on the right bank.

[350] And we shuttled back and forth across the sand.

[351] And then two years later, my dad moved to London to open not a Wells Rich Green advertising office in London.

[352] And my mother at that point was very deep into trying to figure out who she was because she had always been a ballerina.

[353] But now she was 35.

[354] And so she went to study Erythmi in Sussex at a college called Emerson College.

[355] And there was a Steiner school there where the three of us was.

[356] We would call Waldorf is the more popular name for that?

[357] Waldorf education.

[358] God, there's so many things I want to know.

[359] In a nutshell, you love Waldorf?

[360] You would say that's a great place to send your kids?

[361] or not.

[362] Every time I hear about it, I'm like, yeah, it sounds great.

[363] And then I don't know if...

[364] I think it's great for early childhood development.

[365] There's a lot of ideology that I do believe in, which is eye -hand coordination before you learn to read, certain things to get to understand color and texture and things that are visceral because that is what a child sees.

[366] And too soon we try to make children intellectual before they're ready for that.

[367] But that being said, I did not send my child to a Steiner school.

[368] I think I did very well in Steiner schools because I was self -motivated.

[369] I think that my middle sister, who was much more happy smoking pot, you know, and still playing with blocks in 11th grade.

[370] Yeah.

[371] She should have gone to a school that was more just stricter and not saying, well, her atheric forces just aren't quite the same as, you know, it's like, no. She's got a function in the world we live in.

[372] Yeah.

[373] Well, I guess when it's been explained to me, I had a friend that sent his kid there, and then I saw the campus and it was glorious and idealic and all that.

[374] But I always just, I have, again, from the childhood, and now knowing a little bit more about your dad, I would imagine somewhat of that.

[375] A little spidey sense goes off where it's like, this is a little too dogmatic for me. This is a little bit religious for me. This is a little bit culty for me. Like there's an inside way of thinking and then there's an outside way of it.

[376] It's just, I don't know, it's hard to keep those things on the right path.

[377] Yeah, you're not far off.

[378] And my argument always, and my father's argument, because my dad was an anthroposophist.

[379] I mean, Anthroposophy just means knowledge of man, really.

[380] But that was Rudolph Steiner's philosophy was Anthroposophy.

[381] Let's study why we are here.

[382] Why is man here and where are we going?

[383] And it gets very much into the spiritual world.

[384] And it does have a very Christian slant.

[385] And my father used to argue that all the time because he read all 60 of Steiner's books.

[386] Oh, wow.

[387] could translate them from the crazy esoteric stuff into layman's terms.

[388] And he would say, Steiner was an architect and a scientist and a mathematician.

[389] And he was an incredibly bright guy.

[390] And if he was alive now, he would be with the times.

[391] Right, right.

[392] And the problem is that all these, what we call anthropops.

[393] And I write in the book how when I was a kid, they always seemed to be floating rather than walking on the ground, like, and they could never just talk.

[394] everything was a little sing -songy.

[395] Like, they're just, their heads seem to be so up in the clouds that there's no reality grounded in what they're actually teaching.

[396] Right.

[397] And no television, no computers, no, I didn't learn to type.

[398] When I got to college, I was like, no one taught me how to type.

[399] It's ridiculous.

[400] A perfect example of a Steiner business.

[401] And this is my argument, my mother who's still with us, and I'm looking for a place to move her because she lives in a two -story house and it's time and she's aware and she just wants to go to this place in Ghent, New York.

[402] And it's a Steiner community.

[403] Oh, they do like retirement stuff too?

[404] This one.

[405] I don't know if they're all over the world, but this one is there and everything has an angle at and nothing has a square corner.

[406] It drives me crazy.

[407] But my argument to her is when I called them and when I went to see them and said, listen, my mother needs an apartment here, blah, blah.

[408] No one calls me. back.

[409] I'm like, this just, like, wake up.

[410] Like, it drives me insane.

[411] And then, of course, I find a really great one where I would probably want to go if I was your age.

[412] And they call me back.

[413] They send me four plans.

[414] I already have the whole how much it's going to cost.

[415] It's like, it's a business.

[416] Right.

[417] Yeah.

[418] It has to provide a service at some point.

[419] Yes.

[420] You're right, though, because I don't know what year, all of his work was done or his theory on education started.

[421] But yeah, the problem with every single thing is anyone that doesn't avoid.

[422] therein lies the problem like yeah the bible was probably cutting edge stuff two thousand years ago but it has to incorporate everything new we learn anything that doesn't continually incorporate new discoveries i'm a little worried about even a a which i love you know it's written in the 30s some of the language man it's it's getting more more weird as i listen to it out loud you know there's stuff about females or stuff about you know there's just shit needs to incorporate new stuff yeah yeah yeah 100 percent so there's good about it, because my mother was a arrhythmia teacher, which is speech and music through movement.

[423] And she was like, you're not sending Kieran to a Steiner school.

[424] And I said, listen, first of all, I want him to learn how to do math.

[425] And everything that's inside of me inherently, that Steiner, I will give to this child.

[426] Yeah.

[427] Yeah.

[428] He'll get it just from me being his mother.

[429] I want to go back to your dad.

[430] So you wouldn't be able to say this, but he's a selfish human being.

[431] I'm just telling you.

[432] My father?

[433] Yes.

[434] When you have a family in New York, and then you go take a job in Paris and then they all come to Paris and then you take a job in England.

[435] You're selfish and probably a very loving guy and I know you did love him, but of course when your fucking husband didn't tend to the baby on your one hour request, it's this fucking clown.

[436] What do you mean you were going to England?

[437] We just got to France and we hate it.

[438] You know, your primary source of male love was a very selfish man. Always from afar, yeah.

[439] I came to that.

[440] You came to it very quickly.

[441] I came to it much later in life when I was pregnant and 40, and suddenly realizing I blamed my mother for all the bad.

[442] And then I went, wait a minute.

[443] When I was reading these letters, I wrote to my father at 11 and 12, crying for him to come, you know, I miss you, come get me. And then I was like, you're half the parent.

[444] You never even came to my school.

[445] You didn't even know who my teachers were.

[446] Wait a minute.

[447] You don't get off scot -free, buddy.

[448] You've got to be accountable for your actions.

[449] It can't just be her.

[450] Yeah.

[451] And that was a big revelation for me. And I did forgive because he explained his side of things.

[452] And I think we forget his children that our parents are just human beings too.

[453] And I truthfully just, I find living a life where I'm angry all the time, it doesn't serve you all.

[454] No, no, you're the one that suffers.

[455] But what's interesting is your father had saved these letters.

[456] you had sent him.

[457] And then he turned him over to you as if, like, look how cute you were.

[458] And I guess therein lies some of the forgiveness.

[459] Like, it didn't even occur to him that these weren't cute things.

[460] And then you read him and you're like, oh, my God, this is very heartbreaking.

[461] I'm clearly asking for you to come rescue me and you don't.

[462] You tell him as much.

[463] And he takes a few days.

[464] And then he writes you a really long letter, nine pages, I believe.

[465] And he owns it largely.

[466] That's why I titled that chapter, The Blind Men and the Elephant, because He explained it where he really thought he was holding the elephant's ear.

[467] He didn't realize that there were several parts of the elephant.

[468] If a blind man is holding an elephant's leg, he thinks an elephant is a tree truck.

[469] If he's holding the tail, he thinks an elephant is wiry and bendable.

[470] And he owned the fact that he did not know my suffering.

[471] He wasn't aware enough.

[472] And I'll cut him some slack as far as we must also remember the context in which he was fathering, which is the 60s and 70s, which the bar was not high.

[473] I mean, basically you were expected to provide some sustenance in a roof.

[474] That was like the expectation, which is crazy, but...

[475] In the 70s, it was so different than it is now.

[476] And it's one of the reasons why I wanted the cover of the book to look like a 70s movie poster because it's a coming -of -age story and my childhood until high school was the 70s.

[477] Yeah.

[478] And parenting, I mean, listen, I don't know any parents today who would throw three kids in a van with a boyfriend they've known for two months and then pick up hitchhikers.

[479] Who does that?

[480] Right, right, right.

[481] But you did that in the 70s, you know?

[482] That wasn't so strange.

[483] You didn't have Twitter reminding you of how many people are murdered daily.

[484] You're like, if you probably only heard about it once a year, you're like, oh, yeah.

[485] How could this go wrong?

[486] Right.

[487] So I did the exact same thing.

[488] My mom had custody of us.

[489] and she was an angel and my father was the devil.

[490] And I couldn't even take on new info.

[491] Like, I was always perplexed that my dad had this enormous friendship circle and A .A. And so many people loved him and counted on them.

[492] And I didn't look at that and go, oh, my dad must be different than I think he is.

[493] I looked at it.

[494] It was like, oh, my God, look what he's getting away with.

[495] Like, these people don't even know he wasn't around, blah, blah, blah.

[496] Like, even stark new info that said my dad was a very loving, benevolent, generous human being that kept some humans alive, it didn't fit with the archetype I had for him.

[497] For me, I was like, it made me scared about my own judgment.

[498] I'm like, oh, my God, for 44 years, I've had a story about these two people, and it wasn't correct on either side.

[499] That's scary.

[500] Yes, but when your child, it's a very different perspective.

[501] You can't ask a child to see their parents through an adult's eyes because, like, for me, I put my father up on this pedestal, And I really didn't want to take him down because not only was when I saw him so fun and it was vacation time and it was only Broadway shows and eating at Tavern on the Green and oh my God, I got a new sweater.

[502] And then when I was with my mother, it was, I remember walking into the apartment that we rented this just an awful apartment and she was wringing out the paper towels and hanging them to dry.

[503] And I just started crying.

[504] I was like, we can't be that poor.

[505] Like, I couldn't understand how I had just gone to see Annie on Broadway and gone to the Russian tea room in a Laura Ashley dress.

[506] And now I was like living on a horsehair cut and my mother's ringing out.

[507] So I blamed her for that because I couldn't see it any other way, right?

[508] Until you're an adult and you're like, oh my God, my mom really struggled.

[509] Yeah.

[510] And for her, she's probably like, yeah, you just went to.

[511] Annie and got a dress and I'm ringing out paper towels, why isn't he helping us?

[512] Why isn't he helping me?

[513] Right.

[514] And my mother always said that.

[515] She's like, your father always sent the check on time.

[516] We never argued.

[517] They never went to lawyers when they got divorced.

[518] Same.

[519] He just always did the right thing.

[520] But when he had us, I didn't realize he was living way beyond his means because he subconsciously felt guilty that he only saw us twice a year.

[521] Yeah.

[522] And that's why I think in the letter he wrote me, he said, even if I couldn't afford it, I made sure to get you girls to fly to see me whenever I could.

[523] I didn't realize my stepmother contributed to the household.

[524] I just saw her in these Chanel suits going out to Elaine.

[525] It didn't make sense to me, but his life seemed like a precious sparkly jewel.

[526] And my mother's life seemed like a hippie, chaotic granola.

[527] I just couldn't understand it.

[528] But I loved her so much.

[529] And I wanted him to see her in a good light.

[530] that I was always trying to juggle making sure everyone was happy so that my own stuff that was so deep inside.

[531] I just wanted to scream and cry.

[532] And you're right.

[533] My dad was selfish.

[534] And when he gave me the options as a 15 -year -old of what I could do because my home life, it wasn't ideal living with my mother and her 21 -year -old boyfriend, his option was never come live with me. Yeah, and I think, too, now that you have a kid, roughly that age, some of the decisions under the lens of what I would be doing right now become even more preposterous.

[535] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[536] We've all been there.

[537] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[538] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[539] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[540] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[541] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[542] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[543] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[544] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[545] What's up guys?

[546] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good.

[547] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[548] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[549] And I don't mean just friends.

[550] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[551] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[552] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[553] How did this affect your interaction with boys growing up?

[554] I mean, did you like guys that ultimately you somehow knew we're going to disappoint you and be selfish themselves?

[555] I loved to be loved from afar.

[556] Oh.

[557] That was my comfort because my father was always so far away.

[558] And when you're far away, you don't pick fights, right?

[559] you don't get into the nitty gritty.

[560] Everything's rosy, the letters, the phone calls.

[561] So I picked men who had the temperament of the chaos in my life with my mother because I knew how to handle that.

[562] My mom was depending on what boyfriend she was with or if it was in the middle of a breakup or the end of a breakup, you know, I would read the temperature in the room and I knew how to surf that environment.

[563] So with my long 10 -year relationship before I finally realized, oh my god i'm only doing this because this is what i know yeah yeah it's familiar yeah it's familiar and my best times in that relationship was when he went away for work we were great when he was in prague yeah it was awesome i have a boyfriend i'm not alone but i don't have to interact and there's no fights yeah you have a thing with prague sorry he wasn't in prog i shot too too many serious in Prague.

[564] I know.

[565] And when you left ER and you thought on your deathbed what you would want to do, you thought I would have liked to have tried to do Broadway.

[566] I would like to go to Prague.

[567] That was 20 some years ago.

[568] Now, just now you say he's in Prague.

[569] You have something with Prague.

[570] I meant wherever he was filming.

[571] I know, but I think it might hold something in your head.

[572] I think Prague is like, there's something here.

[573] Okay.

[574] We can dissect that.

[575] I'm game.

[576] I presume you've been, right?

[577] It's a glorious city.

[578] I love Prague.

[579] It's beautiful.

[580] I had two really great filming experiences there.

[581] And what was amazing about it was the first time was in 2000 right after I left ER to go and shoot the midst of Avalon.

[582] And then three years later, I went back to shoot another miniseries.

[583] And it had changed.

[584] It was like night and day, just in three years, just the restaurants and everything had just transformed.

[585] So you were the two, 2000 was that movie?

[586] So I made the Miss of Avalon in 2000.

[587] It came out in 2001, I think.

[588] Okay, so I was there.

[589] I was there with three derelict buddies from Detroit.

[590] I was just about to graduate college, and I went there, and we got annihilated all day long.

[591] We ate leg of bore meals, and at the end of the day, we'd be, like, in our hotel room, like, how much did you spend?

[592] And you'd be like, $3 and $90?

[593] It's like, you couldn't spend $10 there.

[594] Like, the goal was to try to blow through $10.

[595] And it couldn't be done.

[596] No, you could get a whole bottle of absent.

[597] That was what a lot of the cast was doing on weekends as they were buying bottles of absin for like four cents.

[598] Yes, yes, yeah.

[599] Literally many of the places the beer was 10 cents.

[600] It was crazy.

[601] But yeah, it changed so dramatically then after that.

[602] Okay, first of all, you went to Sarah Lawrence, and then I just think it's interesting that you were on scrubs.

[603] And of course, you know Bill Lawrence is of the Sarah Lawrence Lawrence.

[604] You know that.

[605] I actually did not know that.

[606] Are you serious?

[607] You didn't.

[608] Yeah, that's his family.

[609] Oh, my God.

[610] How come he and I never talked about that?

[611] I did not know that.

[612] No. He should have known.

[613] I know you went to Sarah Lawrence.

[614] He should have known you into Sarah Lawrence.

[615] His damn family started it, his great grandmother.

[616] I had no idea.

[617] He had no idea.

[618] I had no idea.

[619] Well, it's still present with Segal.

[620] I don't know the answer to that.

[621] Okay.

[622] But he is the Lawrence of the Sarah Lawrence.

[623] Yeah.

[624] I had no idea.

[625] Okay.

[626] So I want to know really quickly because I've had a fascination while it's still present with Segal, Stephen Segal, in.

[627] your first movie was with Stephen Segal.

[628] I think that was like pinnacle.

[629] He just three movies a year, they all worked, beat people up.

[630] Yeah.

[631] And then, of course, I turned on the TV some years later, and I see that he is a sheriff in Louisiana.

[632] For real?

[633] Yeah, he's a legitimate sheriff in some parish in Louisiana.

[634] And he had a reality show, and he pulled people over.

[635] And, of course, all they can think about is the fact that Stephen Segal is asking them if they had something to drink.

[636] It's so confusing to the people who are.

[637] getting pulled over by him.

[638] And now he's a citizen of Moscow, no?

[639] No, he is?

[640] Oh, my God.

[641] Yeah, he moved to Russia.

[642] Oh, we did.

[643] That's my understanding is that he, him and Putin are like this.

[644] Oh, my good.

[645] That makes a ton of sense.

[646] Yeah.

[647] Well, there was a whole thing a couple of years ago.

[648] I could be so wrong and I apologize.

[649] We're fact check.

[650] We fact check.

[651] I thought there was a whole thing a couple years ago where he denounced his American citizenship.

[652] No kidding.

[653] And became a Russian citizen.

[654] He must have cleaned.

[655] up all of Louisiana, and he's like, my work here is done.

[656] I'm going to Russia.

[657] I'm straightened that place out.

[658] But in this reality show, when he wasn't on his beat as a sheriff, this is for real, he was in blues clubs, like doing guitar solos at night as a blues guitar.

[659] I'm just obsessed.

[660] I'm obsessed.

[661] What was your work experience?

[662] You know much more about him than I do.

[663] He's worth knowing about.

[664] Like, I also just, you know, the notion that in the 80s and 90s, if you knew some karate, you might be able to just do that karate in many, many movies and it never got old.

[665] I love that.

[666] I know.

[667] I mean, there was always a sort of story behind it, which was that he can't really do any of those martial arts, but I don't know if that's true either.

[668] So much lore.

[669] Well, yes, one of his claims, I think his claim, and we really need to fact check this part.

[670] But part of his origin story is that he lived in Japan or somewhere.

[671] That might not be right, but he had opened his own martial art studio in an area somewhere in Asia where only the masters can have a dojo.

[672] So this is part of the lore of him that he like was in the thick of it where it counts and he was a master.

[673] You know, I didn't give it much thought after I got my sag card and did my little part in the movie.

[674] I guess here's what I'm curious about.

[675] It's just shockingly beautiful.

[676] He must have given you rhythm, no?

[677] When you say rhythm, what do you mean that?

[678] I guess they'd call in sex and love addiction, I'm intriguing, like seeing if someone is interested in you.

[679] Well, I think that's why he asked me to come to his hotel room at 10 o 'clock at night.

[680] Oh, boy.

[681] Well, yeah, that's overt.

[682] That's overt.

[683] And then read my palm.

[684] Oh, boy.

[685] Oh, wow.

[686] And told me that he was a healer and that I had weak kidneys.

[687] Oh, did that materialize?

[688] No. Did that turn out to be true?

[689] No. I think that was his schick with women was that he would tell them he was a healer.

[690] So.

[691] I'm laughing about that, but is that a bad experience or is that one you would laugh?

[692] Well, I just want to be careful.

[693] I'm laughing at how preposterous of an angle that is.

[694] No, listen, I'm fine.

[695] And I got out of the room on skate.

[696] And I wrote about it because, well, for several reasons.

[697] One, it's a very funny story.

[698] I don't mean to belittle it in that it wasn't traumatic because it was.

[699] But nothing happened to me. I did not get sexually assaulted.

[700] But the chapter in the book, which is called Out for Justice, you know, all of his movies only have three words in the title.

[701] So.

[702] And listen, I was straight out of college and all I wanted was my sad card.

[703] Yeah.

[704] You know, and I had given my.

[705] myself five years out of college.

[706] I said, if within five years I have not been able to make a living, pay my insurance and my rent by acting, I'll quit.

[707] And I will do something else, something worthy of my time.

[708] But I'm not going to do this.

[709] I'm not going to beg.

[710] And I'm not going to live on a crouton for the rest of my life.

[711] And so right out of college, I had this agent and they sent me on the Stephen Seagull audition.

[712] And I didn't know who he was.

[713] I didn't go to see those kind of movies.

[714] That was in my jam.

[715] I believe that you didn't know.

[716] I truly didn't know.

[717] And at the time, my middle sister, Rachel, was getting married.

[718] And it was all about that for me. Even it wasn't a fancy wedding or anything, but she and I were very close.

[719] And I was made of honor for her wedding.

[720] So really, I was focused on that.

[721] So I was like, okay, I'll go an audition, whatever.

[722] Anyway, and they actually, at the audition, he wasn't at the first audition.

[723] They asked me if I was Puerto Rican.

[724] So this would never happen now.

[725] Right, right, right.

[726] But back then, nobody knew how to cast me. You're mostly Eastern European, a bit Russian.

[727] Right.

[728] I'm an Eastern European Jew, but they all thought, like, is she Irish?

[729] Because she has curly hair and green eyes.

[730] Or is she maybe part black?

[731] Or is she Puerto Rican?

[732] This is part of your beauty.

[733] You're an enigma.

[734] God bless you for saying that at the time.

[735] It was, are you Puerto Rican?

[736] And I went, sure.

[737] Oh, wait, I have to interrupt you.

[738] I have to interrupt you.

[739] Because you'll love this story.

[740] Monica, just give you.

[741] the two cents of taking the trip to Florida.

[742] Oh, because this is one of our longest running bits when we text each other.

[743] When I was coming out of high school, I went to Florida, to Ocala, Florida to go on meetings.

[744] Because that's the place you go to, to go on meetings in the film industry, you know?

[745] Oh, California.

[746] Like acting meetings.

[747] Me and my best friend did this, and we met with some guy who made, like, crocodile documentaries, and then we met.

[748] with this one woman who was some sort of producer, amorphous producer, and she told me that I could and should play black.

[749] Play black.

[750] Again, this was also a long time ago, but she encouraged me to do that and was very adamant that I, you could play black and you should.

[751] Yeah, like helpful.

[752] Yeah, she was, she was trying to be helpful.

[753] Yeah.

[754] It's so, it's so, I don't, so that would never happen today, T .M. Right?

[755] No, no, no, no. I would never be able to play, I mean, my first two roles on film and on television, Law and Order, I played Lieutenant Mendoza.

[756] Sure.

[757] And I got my sad card playing Rika, the hooker with a heart of gold and out for justice.

[758] And when I got to set, they fly into California, I got the part.

[759] And on set, Stephen Seagal says, You know what?

[760] Let's do this in Spanish.

[761] And I was like, fuck.

[762] And I said, so, I don't really speak Spanish, but I speak French, and I'm quick with languages.

[763] So if you tell me what it sounds like.

[764] Just trying so hard not to get fired.

[765] I really didn't want to get fired.

[766] I really wanted that card.

[767] And it's the only Spanish I remember to this day, which is Elena, bet the day here.

[768] I had to tell my little sister to stay out of the room or get out of here.

[769] But he said, on set, he said, so you're not Puerto Rican?

[770] And I said, no, I'm Jewish.

[771] Kind of like you, right?

[772] Stephen Siegel, really.

[773] And everyone just like it went silent.

[774] Because he is.

[775] His name isn't Stephen Seagall.

[776] No. It's Stephen Siegel.

[777] Sure.

[778] But Stephen Siegel.

[779] The most trusted fan.

[780] family practitioner we have in our circle.

[781] Stephen Siegel.

[782] But hey, you know what, that movie got me my SAG card?

[783] Yeah.

[784] There won't be a more appropriate time to announce this, that second most nominated SAG woman in the history of SAG other than Julia Louise Triphus, which what an honor.

[785] Wow.

[786] Do you know that about yourself?

[787] I did not know that.

[788] No, you did your Wikipedia search, didn't you?

[789] You don't know where I researched.

[790] Don't just try to belittle my research.

[791] I'm saying I only go to Wikipedia.

[792] I also watch like seven interviews with you.

[793] on television.

[794] But, you know, when all that stuff came out, when the Me Too movement happened and I heard women talking about things he had done, I was like, yeah, I was in that hotel room and his stick kind of made me, I was kind of laughing because I thought, like, does that, like when he said I'm a healer and you have weak kidneys, at that point I had, it gave me the courage to stand up and get out of there.

[795] I wonder if he assessed, like, what organ does this person?

[796] person want to know is ailing.

[797] I wonder if it was always weak kidneys or if he told some people their gallbladder was in bad shape or that their liver needed tending to.

[798] It could be.

[799] I remember when the movie came out, I was such a small player in it.

[800] I didn't get invited to the premiere and me and my boyfriend and all my college friends at the time, we went to the Broadway and 19th Street theater to see it.

[801] And I remember that moment of sitting there and seeing 25 feet.

[802] Your face is so.

[803] I already have a really big face anyway and I'm always a little bit like oh my God my face is so big I couldn't watch it I got up and left I couldn't bear it hold on this is fantastic this just keeps happening it's so wonderful where we have like bona fide objective a computer could analyze it tens and they don't know and it just it's very comforting like the notion that you would look at your big head on screen and not think fuck it I nail that head look at that fucking face If you can do that, we're all fucked.

[804] It's comforting.

[805] But it is weird, right?

[806] The first time you ever saw yourself on film, you're not used to it.

[807] I mean, now, of course, I'm now used to it, and I look past all the things I hate, and I just try and look at the work.

[808] Let's just say this.

[809] You're seeing angles of yourself that you can't see as a human.

[810] So as a human looking in a mirror, you're limited to seeing the front of your face, a little bit of the side.

[811] Like, you've never looked at yourself from behind.

[812] Right.

[813] But as soon as you start acting, now you're seeing like 360 of you.

[814] I'm like, oh, that chin's weak.

[815] We've got to get that thing.

[816] No, it's horrible.

[817] I mean, it's just such a magnifying glass into all your imperfections.

[818] But then I always think, well, but when I personally watch people up on screen, I just think they're all so beautiful.

[819] Like, I love you.

[820] You can actually see the iris.

[821] Oh, my God.

[822] Look at the shape of their nose.

[823] And so then I think, well, why are you so hard on yourself?

[824] I mean, it could be that I was called Fat Head all through eighth grade.

[825] Maybe, so I have a, I think, a round face.

[826] Dax loves round features.

[827] We've had lots arguments about this.

[828] Okay, I'm going to move on before I'm Stephen Segal.

[829] But I am worried about your coxics.

[830] Yes, there you can start there, sure.

[831] And I could heal it.

[832] Yes, thank you.

[833] Just a couple things I want to talk about ER, one being Clooney.

[834] We love him.

[835] Take it away.

[836] That's my invitation for you to take it away.

[837] No, no, no, I'm interested in that.

[838] That's the bottom line.

[839] I'm interested in that your scene partner in this explosive show that was epic was also with a guy who ultimately was a legendary film star.

[840] Became the biggest movie.

[841] Yeah.

[842] And then so the questions I ran through in my head, I was like, no, that's kind of dismissive to you.

[843] You know, like I'm just thinking of three or four questions.

[844] And I just realized, oh, I don't like that question.

[845] I don't like that question.

[846] I don't like that question.

[847] But there was no real.

[848] So then you just landed on just Clooney.

[849] Yeah.

[850] Let's leave it at that.

[851] cloning.

[852] I feel that way with like Chris Pratt, like when we had Aubrey Plaza on and they're on Parks and Rec and it's just like this fun show and then all of a sudden that show ends and he becomes an insanely huge movie star.

[853] For those people, I think they're like that's crazy.

[854] You know, I thought George handled it all so well but really by the time in between our first and second season, George did that Quentin Tarantino.

[855] Was it Quentin Tarantino movie?

[856] Yeah, it does Just till dawn.

[857] It was Rodriguez and Tarantino.

[858] Right.

[859] And it went to number one right away.

[860] And so literally by the time we were in our second season of the show, he was already moving up the movie star team.

[861] And then he did out of sight with Steven Soderberg.

[862] I think that was the next year.

[863] He would have been great at loving you from afar, by the way.

[864] That's true.

[865] That would have to be slightly tempted.

[866] It all would have worked until I became an adult.

[867] Yeah.

[868] And I really didn't become an adult until I was about 35.

[869] And then I would have wanted him to show up.

[870] Yes.

[871] So I, I mean, he and I always joke about, thank God, nothing ever happened because we can now remain friends for the rest of our lives.

[872] That's true.

[873] As he used to say, you don't shit where you eat.

[874] Right.

[875] Although I'm great friends with all my exes.

[876] So you guys could have still, but maybe been great friends.

[877] No, but what he meant by that was the famous story of a. moonlighting with Bruce Willis and Sybil Shepard.

[878] They had sex on the pilot, and then the show gets picked up.

[879] And then they hated each other.

[880] Or, you know, David Dukovni and Jillian Anderson, that's the same thing happened.

[881] And then they hate each other, and you're stuck on a show for seven years to go.

[882] I mean, that's agony.

[883] Life's too short, you know?

[884] You just want to have that crush keep going and going, and that's what worked.

[885] And also, he's just a super awesome human being, and I love him.

[886] Yeah.

[887] And then when you left, what's interesting is, so, and I've heard you talk about it a lot.

[888] It was the thing that, of course, got a lot of headlines when you started promoting Sunshine Girl.

[889] But, you know, when you left, you walked away from a huge chunk of money, $27 million over two years.

[890] That was the big headline.

[891] You've talked about it a bunch.

[892] And you're so right in your analysis that for people, what they project onto that is like, I guess, a lack of gratitude, getting too big for their britches.

[893] you'll never have it this good again like all this ultimately fear stuff but there is one other explanation i just wanted to hit you with which is a little more generous which is i've only had that once i loved one tv show until sopranos which was northern exposure and when he left i was sad i loved that show i did not want him to leave i want him to keep doing it because i loved him on that show but i'm not evolved enough to be vulnerable and say i'm going to miss you and i hate that.

[894] So I go, well, this better work out as a movie star.

[895] Like, basically, you fucked up my thing.

[896] So now I'm kind of starting hating on you, but originally derived from love, I believe.

[897] So I do think a lot of people maybe who were voicing one thing, what they really wanted to say was, I'm going to miss you so much, and I don't want you to go.

[898] Yeah, you're probably right.

[899] I mean, I think there was a lot of that.

[900] There still is.

[901] It's so weird.

[902] Because of the pandemic, ER has this new audience that weren't born yet when we were doing ER.

[903] Isn't that wild?

[904] It's crazy because that was 20 years ago.

[905] Also, you and I started working in a paradigm where almost the reason you wanted to be a movie actor as opposed to a TV actor is that movie actors were immortalized.

[906] You still watch The Godfather.

[907] There wasn't a world in which people watched TV shows that were 20 years old.

[908] That didn't exist.

[909] So to be virtually in what is the modern day equivalent of movies where people, yeah, are watching, you know, breaking bad.

[910] They're going back and watching these shows.

[911] Listen, during the lockdown, my son, he just turned 13, so he was 12 at the time.

[912] We watched three episodes of The Office every night, all nine seasons.

[913] Oh, yeah.

[914] How fun.

[915] Like, in his mind, Pam and Jim are the age of Pam and Jim from the art. office.

[916] Like those are his people.

[917] Yeah.

[918] Yeah.

[919] And not just him.

[920] All of his friends, that was their show.

[921] And I was like, wow, this is amazing.

[922] And I actually said to my when we finished the nine seasons, I said, you know, ER was a pretty good show.

[923] Do you want to watch that?

[924] And he goes, no, I'm good.

[925] I know.

[926] I keep dropping like little seeds, hoping my daughters will watch parenthood someday.

[927] Like, I hope they go through that show.

[928] No, but my daughters love top gear.

[929] car show I host and they love cars and they love stuff that.

[930] They love the good place.

[931] They love the good place.

[932] So we've had a taste of it.

[933] I love that show.

[934] They're indifferent to Frozen though, which is a big relief for me as a parent.

[935] Okay, I have to tell you something about Frozen.

[936] Tell me. I feel really bad about this.

[937] But so every year, my best friend from college who has a daughter 11 months younger than Kieran and her husband and me and my son, we all go on vacation together.

[938] And we've been doing this every Christmas since the kids were two and three years old.

[939] And And when my girlfriend, Blair, her daughter, Nora, got a little older, and Frozen came on the scene.

[940] My son was locked in a room with Nora, and it was on a loop literally for a week, that movie.

[941] She would watch it eight times a day, and if he tried to turn it off, she would scream.

[942] Yeah.

[943] And when we flew home to New York, and my girlfriend lives in L .A., so we, at the airport, bye, we get on the plane, and my kid, I think he was seven, sat down and he went, so I'm, boycotting Disney.

[944] Yeah.

[945] It's a traumatic movie for the people who didn't love it.

[946] And I said, wait, but Kieran, you love Cars.

[947] Cars is Disney.

[948] And he goes, it's over.

[949] I'm out.

[950] To the point where when I took him to L .A., I said, do you want to go to Disneyland?

[951] He goes, what part of boycotting did you not understand?

[952] Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow.

[953] He's principled.

[954] She traumatized him with first.

[955] Frozen and I, so the only time, like Keith and I, every time Kieran would do something that warranted us to be a little annoying to him, we would just start singing from Frozen and he'd run in his room and shut the door.

[956] But I think it.

[957] Knock on his door and say, do you want to build a snowman?

[958] Oh, my God.

[959] Yeah, but a lot of boys in his class felt the same way because the girls.

[960] Yeah.

[961] They just went bonkers and nothing else existed.

[962] Yeah.

[963] Okay.

[964] Okay.

[965] You left the show.

[966] We have a great story, but you've told it most places.

[967] But in a nutshell, your dad really kind of came in at the right moment and got philosophical with you and kind of helped you steady what you wanted to do and leave and try other things.

[968] And consider on your deathbed whether you'd want 27 million or having done the things you were passionate about.

[969] Yeah.

[970] His words were, I know a lot of unhappy rich people.

[971] And what is your heart saying?

[972] And if you were to die before the two years were up to make you a rich person, what would you be saying to yourself as your soul left your body?

[973] Were you living your most truthful life?

[974] Were you being your most authentic self?

[975] Or were you waiting for two years of your life to go by to get rich?

[976] Yeah.

[977] stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare it's so funny i was just talking to my wife about virtually the same thing this morning and then monica and i were talking about it two days ago it's really really wild if your life gets lucky enough that your needs are met and you actually can start evaluating why you're doing the things you're doing i recognize it's a very privileged place to be in life where you can ask yourself why you're doing doing something because for most of my life it was to eat and have rent money but there has become a point now where it's like well that's not an issue anymore so why am i doing it and so often the reason i'm doing anything is the fear that my lack of gratitude for this opportunity will take away all future opportunities like that all i've gotten too big for my britches that i'm not grateful anymore that i don't value anything i mean the implications of me saying i don't want to do something are so much deeper i can't find one reason why i'd want to do the thing yet i mean i'm in a state of total discomfort saying no. When you say grateful, I'm very curious about that.

[978] So who are you worried about yourself or other people thinking you're not being grateful?

[979] That's such a great question to ask.

[980] So my childhood, my blue -color roots, my working -class mother who killed herself to build a business, you know, all these things.

[981] It is a remarkable journey because, I mean, obviously everyone thought I was nuts back then.

[982] And I get it.

[983] I understand that.

[984] I really do.

[985] I don't regret it.

[986] Well, you said something really profound, which is you're actually threatening the American dream.

[987] And sometimes I say stuff on here that is all.

[988] I recognize it as also.

[989] Like I always say like, do it.

[990] Get famous, get rich.

[991] I'm just also adding to that.

[992] It's not going to feel anyway.

[993] You're not going to look in the mirror and feel rich and famous, sadly.

[994] It'd be great if you did, but I'm just warning you now.

[995] That doesn't come for anyone.

[996] Right.

[997] You said something so interesting when you were talking to Prince Harry, if we can just keep bringing him into the narrative.

[998] Sure, sure, sure.

[999] But you said, there I was at airports and people are recognizing me, and I was miserable.

[1000] I couldn't see the forest through the trees, right?

[1001] You were not who you wanted to be.

[1002] Lowest point with everything I had dreamed of.

[1003] Yeah, right?

[1004] You dream.

[1005] And my dad, when I said, dad, everyone's making fun of me. And he said, well, you threw away the American dream.

[1006] To them, that's the American dream.

[1007] And I understand it.

[1008] And that's why he said to me, I know a lot of unhappy, rich people, choose your happiness.

[1009] Where does your happy come from?

[1010] It's hard to break that.

[1011] That is the soup we were fed, all of us here from day one.

[1012] Right.

[1013] It's a big one.

[1014] And if you can weather the storm of other people's opinions, if you can thicken up your skin, which believe me, I have thin skin, I care what people think about me. I do.

[1015] I'd be lying if I said I didn't.

[1016] But what I am learning, especially now with social media and everyone has a voice and a platform to spew whatever they want, is that.

[1017] I cannot give anybody's opinion worth their salt if I don't actually meet them face -to -face.

[1018] Yeah, yeah.

[1019] Because I don't know where they are.

[1020] Where are you sitting with all your opinions?

[1021] Where are you?

[1022] What's your life like?

[1023] I don't know how you feel about reading reviews.

[1024] When I'm doing theater, I can't read a review because if I believe the good, then don't I have to believe the bad?

[1025] Right.

[1026] And if I believe the bad, I may get 99 great reviews and the one bad one is going to be the only one I remember.

[1027] Of course.

[1028] And then every night when I go out on that stage, that's what's going to be in my head.

[1029] Not me being truthful to the work, but some guy who I've never even met before who was judging my performance, that's going to ruin my performance now.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] So who are you giving power to?

[1032] Yeah.

[1033] And that reviewer took a coworker out to dinner beforehand and then went and saw that.

[1034] the show and he had illusions that they were going to have fireworks and then, you know, like, who can fucking know is if you can critique something in a void?

[1035] Yeah, yeah.

[1036] Absolutely.

[1037] And so I think what I love about getting older, and I'm older than both of you, all of that really starts to fall away.

[1038] I'm so happy that it's finally is because that stuff used to really hit me hard.

[1039] Like when I had left ER and I was getting all this backlash for a decision that I thought was a private decision that would benefit me. I had no idea that people were going to judge it or be affected by it or think that I was ungrateful.

[1040] I was going off to do a play for $235 a week.

[1041] I wasn't going off to me. I had no grand illusion that I was going to be some movie star.

[1042] I never said, I'm turning this down because now I was literally going to do off Broadway.

[1043] Like it was, it wasn't.

[1044] Right, right, right.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] But I thought, I have to tell everybody what.

[1047] Like, that was my first reaction.

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] And I realized, actually, I don't.

[1050] Actually, I know why.

[1051] And they can think whatever they want.

[1052] I'll never be all powerful to change someone's opinion.

[1053] Right.

[1054] And the people in your life, in your orbit that know you, that love you, not one of those people are thinking.

[1055] Not one of those people thinks that I think I'm going to be some big movie star.

[1056] And that is the beauty also of having really good friends and having a great partner and, you know, having a good family around you because the inner circle that you have around you is the people you should believe, not the people tweeting.

[1057] Oh, that's why I don't tweet.

[1058] I mean, I only just started Instagram a year ago, and I'm awful at it.

[1059] That one's worth doing.

[1060] I don't think anyone will leave Twitter ever feeling better.

[1061] But I do think you can leave Instagram feeling better.

[1062] Me, I'll just speak for me. No, I mean, truthfully, Random House said, wait, you have no social media platform.

[1063] And I was like, no. And I live such a happy life.

[1064] Yes.

[1065] Isn't it crazy?

[1066] Like, this becomes the debate we all.

[1067] have is like is it even an option not to have it if you do what we do i tell myself i wouldn't have it if i didn't have this job but i might be lying to myself i don't know it's addictive right because i do find myself checking it and then i think like why am i checking it this is horrible and i just checked it one minute ago and now i'm checking it again nothing's right what what change habitual it's crazy it is crazy it is it mainly as a tool to police monica like if i can't can't get a hold of Monica.

[1068] You put it on Instagram?

[1069] And she's like, presumably she's like, you know, she's down for the night.

[1070] I go over to Instagram and I can see because we follow each other.

[1071] It'll say active now.

[1072] And I'm like that little asshole.

[1073] She's in bed.

[1074] I still don't even know.

[1075] Someone said, we'll put it in your story.

[1076] And I was like, I don't know how to get there.

[1077] I can't do that.

[1078] But, you know, my husband is neither on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram.

[1079] And he does really well.

[1080] Like, he's fine.

[1081] Yes.

[1082] Nothing seems to rubble his feathers.

[1083] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1084] Okay, now, I have two quick questions because I also want to say that you're joining the cast of the morning show, which is exciting.

[1085] Did you know that?

[1086] I didn't.

[1087] That's really exciting.

[1088] I also, a bunch of people that worked on parenthood worked on the good wife.

[1089] The report back was just always how lovely it was.

[1090] That was always the resounding feedback.

[1091] I always heard about people who went there.

[1092] I'm so glad to hear that.

[1093] I always feel like you do your best work in a safe environment.

[1094] And I was so thankful to all these incredible people that would come to do the show.

[1095] Which you guys had the best.

[1096] Well, we had Broadway, was right there.

[1097] I always knew on Mondays because that's their day off.

[1098] I always do.

[1099] I would never look at the call sheet.

[1100] I would just want to walk into the makeup room and see who were there.

[1101] And I'd be bowing down to everyone's feet.

[1102] It was a master class in acting for me working.

[1103] I mean, my God, Brian Dennyhy was a lawyer.

[1104] with me for all these people, F. Murray, Abraham, I mean, there were days where I just, I was like, sitting there with Alan Cumming, Christine Bransky, Nathan Lane, and David Hyde Pierce.

[1105] And I was like, could you all just sing?

[1106] Yeah, yeah.

[1107] I bet the room was cluttered with Tonys, yeah.

[1108] Oh, yeah, everybody.

[1109] So I got to work with Michael J. Fox, and it was rich to be on that show, just from an actor's standpoint, and also the crew.

[1110] This book actually started more, Me and Michael J. Fox used to say, you know, all these actors who come on set right out of Juilliard or right out of Yale drama school, and they're all so talented, but none of them learned set etiquette.

[1111] And he and I is to talk about wanting to write a handbook.

[1112] Oh, that would be great.

[1113] Like, you're all really talented, but learn the fact that 13 hours may go by before you get to do your monologue, and you're going to be tired, and it's your job to shut the fuck up and do your job.

[1114] Yeah, that's a tough one.

[1115] Because the boom operator has been here way longer than you, the focus puller, the PA, this doesn't happen without every single person here.

[1116] I was joking and sort of writing like trying to pay it forward to actors to be like, I've been on sets now for a very long time every single day.

[1117] And let me just give you a few tips.

[1118] And then I sort of was interweaving my childhood in there.

[1119] Anyway, I said the chapters, like nine of them to my agent.

[1120] and she goes, acting handbooks don't sell.

[1121] But the shit you have in between about your childhood, now that's a book.

[1122] There's not as many aspiring actors as you might think.

[1123] I hope you had a chapter called Hang Your Wardrobe Up.

[1124] So it kills me when I find out actors don't hang up their wardrobe.

[1125] I do that, by the way.

[1126] I'm kind of, I guess I'm nosy.

[1127] And I always ask, I'll ask the customers like, who hangs their shit up and who doesn't.

[1128] And that's kind of my litmus test.

[1129] I'm so glad to hear you say that.

[1130] Bravo because I'm a stepdaughter of a stylist and she used to come home in tears after a photo shoot because the models would leave their clothes on the floor she had to go and bring them back to Bloomingdale's usually and they'd have cigarette butts on them and whatever and I grew up seeing this woman in tears having to clean up after these precious people and I don't care how tired you are it takes just as much energy to take your clothes off and put it on a hangar as it does to take them off and throw it on the floor.

[1131] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1132] And why should anyone else clean up your shit?

[1133] And I do think it's because also I think everyone, no matter what business you're in, should be in the service industry first.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] Because it just gives you perspective on that we're all human beings and no one deserves better treatment.

[1136] I got written up really quite a few times in a very short tenure at California Pizza Kitchen.

[1137] So it didn't go great for me. But okay, second to last question.

[1138] Did you enjoy our love scene on Scrubs?

[1139] Did I enjoy our love scene?

[1140] I did.

[1141] It felt good.

[1142] I was wearing a wig, I think, that got in the way.

[1143] Do you think I look identical to Zach Braff like the rest of the world?

[1144] I know everyone says that.

[1145] I see you very differently.

[1146] I don't.

[1147] You guys have a similar, there's something similar in your face.

[1148] Yeah.

[1149] You also have a similar.

[1150] Okay, don't get upset when I say this.

[1151] You couldn't say anything worse than I think about it.

[1152] I love your accent.

[1153] Do you know how heavy your accent is?

[1154] No clue.

[1155] My wife tells me, we're both from Michigan, and she says, you know, she does not have that.

[1156] Correct.

[1157] And she says, you know, I've lost that accent and you still have it.

[1158] And I'm like, we talk identical, but we don't.

[1159] And I know this objectively.

[1160] But I feel like I sound exactly like her.

[1161] That's so interesting.

[1162] No, you don't.

[1163] I love it.

[1164] I love that it's so inherent in who you are.

[1165] The podcast wouldn't be the same without it.

[1166] But it is strong.

[1167] But I think that you and Zach could be brothers.

[1168] Is that fair to say?

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] Well, I pitched him a movie like 15 years ago when we were both first starting to work.

[1171] I said we should do a movie called Nurture versus Nature where we're identical twins, but you were raised by like Upper East Side Jews and I was raised by hillbillies.

[1172] And it had this big of an impact on a Yon.

[1173] Come on, that would be a great movie.

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] I think that would be a great movie.

[1176] Okay.

[1177] What I'm trying to imagine is you stepping onto this.

[1178] set of morning show I'm trying to think of the parallel for me like who would have to be where I would walk in I don't know I guess I did this movie the judge and it was it was Duval and Robert Downey and Billy Bob and Dinoffrio and certainly I walked into there like well shit I could either feel really like I don't belong here or it could go great and it went great but I certainly I don't know it was in my head of like well we got some heavy hitters here a lot of people with a lot of yeah but she's the same but I don't think anyone ever feels the same.

[1179] Oh, well, she's not, well, maybe she does.

[1180] More second time sag.

[1181] Yeah, but she didn't know that.

[1182] I had to tell her that.

[1183] That's true.

[1184] Well, minimally, you know, you're like, you're going on to someone else's show.

[1185] Just like when people would come on your show, you're like stepping into a microcosm that everyone knows each other.

[1186] And you're kind of beyond that in some way.

[1187] I was excited, first of all, because it was just so nice to be working and not cooking and cleaning and ironing.

[1188] But I'll tell you, the character was.

[1189] such a, I was so excited to play this character.

[1190] And my first day, yeah, I had to quarantine the first week that I got there because it was at the height of pandemic.

[1191] And immediately, Reese Witherspoon had gotten my number and texted, welcome friend.

[1192] That's all I needed.

[1193] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1194] You know, and she made me feel so welcome.

[1195] And a very, very close friend of mine, she's in the book, actually, Nancy Banks, who was the one who really changed my, trajectory of how to look at a relationship, which was she said to me, and I'm coming back to this, when you're happy 25 % of the time and miserable 75 % of the time in a relationship, it's time to leave if it were the other way around you fight for it.

[1196] And that really changed my world around when I could see it in numbers and not feelings, you know?

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] She was my maid of honor at my wedding.

[1199] She works on the show.

[1200] She works with Jennifer Aniston.

[1201] So I hadn't seen.

[1202] I hadn't seen.

[1203] her in a year, and I wasn't going to be seeing her for another year because of the pandemic.

[1204] And so I get to set, and there's Reese, and I've known Jen, we came out of the gate together.

[1205] Friends and ER shot next door to each other on the same night.

[1206] Oh, wow, yeah.

[1207] You know, we were must -see TV Thursday nights.

[1208] Oh, my God, what a night.

[1209] I've no Billy Crude up.

[1210] I'm a theater geek in New York.

[1211] He lives right down the street for me. Mark Decloss I had never met, and I was so excited to meet him because I'm such a fan.

[1212] and on top of all of it, it wasn't on my shoulders.

[1213] Yeah, that's nice.

[1214] I mean, I was laughing.

[1215] I was like, I'm sorry.

[1216] I mean, two scenes this week, just two.

[1217] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1218] No medical dialogue, no lilies.

[1219] I mean, it was heaven.

[1220] And I'm working with great people and all the directors also.

[1221] The woman who's the executive producer and main director on the show is Mimi Leader, who was my director on ER.

[1222] Oh, no kidding.

[1223] with a gladder who was my director on ER and the good wife so i knew everybody yeah i take it back so this is like this is the opposite of what i was thinking this is like the sweet spot of your life where it's like all right i belong here like a motherfucker i know all these people i started with all these people here we are let's do this and i don't have to work so hard and if i suck it's not on my shoulders right because it's not really my show so i loved it i had such a good time on the good wife I spent so much of my time worrying about everyone else.

[1224] I always wanted to make sure everyone was okay and everyone was having a good time.

[1225] And then when I became a producer in the third season, anyone who had a problem who was an actor goes to the actor.

[1226] And then I was like, oh, my God, I'd come home and be like, what did I do?

[1227] I shouldn't have said yet.

[1228] Like, it was like a vacation for me. I did six out of 10 episodes on the morning show and had a really good time.

[1229] I can't wait to watch.

[1230] I really, really, really, really like you.

[1231] and I am really excited to see that because I love that show.

[1232] It'll be really fun to see you join those badass ladies.

[1233] I'm so glad you're in that world because you so deserve to be in that world because there's much more going on than just that show.

[1234] And same with big little lies, I'll say.

[1235] It is a statement that this paradigm where women are going to be done acting at 30 and what's his name is always going to be married to a 23 -year -old.

[1236] Like, that's over and women have stories to tell and they're still protagonists.

[1237] Yeah, I mean, and I think Reese, I mean, I don't know if you saw the cover of Time Magazine.

[1238] She's on it, and it's about business.

[1239] She is single -handedly changing the narrative of Hollywood and what it thinks of women by picking female stories and making sure women are hired.

[1240] I think there was only one man who directed me on the morning show.

[1241] Everyone else was female.

[1242] It's so cool.

[1243] And you so deserve to be there because you were like, even the good wife, that would have been a huge anomaly.

[1244] 10 years before.

[1245] Right.

[1246] Yeah.

[1247] And also for CBS, because CBS didn't have any female -driven shows.

[1248] There were no women who were the leads of their shows.

[1249] Right.

[1250] And you weren't 28 or 32.

[1251] No, I was 42 when I got the pilot.

[1252] Yeah.

[1253] So, like, of course you're there in this group.

[1254] I don't know.

[1255] I like it.

[1256] I think it's cool.

[1257] Thank you.

[1258] I can't tell you what a thrill when I heard armchair expert was wondering if you wanted to do their podcast.

[1259] My heart really jumped into my throat.

[1260] because I really believe both you and Monica got me through the pandemic.

[1261] You can make us dinner.

[1262] We'll let you make us dinner.

[1263] We're happy to let you make us dinner.

[1264] It really was my foray into the podcast world.

[1265] So thank you guys so much.

[1266] I'm a huge fan of both of yours.

[1267] Oh, so flattering.

[1268] Great luck with the book, Sunshine Girl.

[1269] People should watch The Morning Show.

[1270] Thanks, guys.

[1271] All right.

[1272] We'll talk again.

[1273] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman Hello Hello Hello We can do it in rounds In rounds How's I go?

[1274] A round is you start And then I start halfway through But you have to have it It needs to be longer than just the word hello They normally do it with row row row row your boat Oh right Let's try it Row row row your boat Row row your boat Gently down the stream your boat gently down the stream, merri, merry, merrily, merrily, merrily, merry, life is but a dream.

[1275] I can't do that exercise.

[1276] I start listening to you.

[1277] It's fun, that's part of it.

[1278] You know, one time Jess and I, years ago, well, years ago, you remember this.

[1279] Camp.

[1280] That's right.

[1281] The three of us, Kristen was out of town for a long time.

[1282] Oh, yeah, the boat.

[1283] Like father.

[1284] Mm -hmm.

[1285] Down on a cruise ship.

[1286] Yes, and Jess, myself, and you, yourself, hung out a lot.

[1287] Yep.

[1288] And we called it camp.

[1289] Yep.

[1290] And Jess and I sang a camp song that Jess taught me, and it was in round.

[1291] Ah, was it hard for you?

[1292] Extremely.

[1293] Oh, good.

[1294] So you're practiced at this.

[1295] I feel less inadequate.

[1296] It's really hard to do.

[1297] Okay, yeah.

[1298] Okay, good.

[1299] How about you go first?

[1300] Let me try it.

[1301] I think it's harder for the first person.

[1302] It might be.

[1303] Okay, ready?

[1304] Mm -hmm.

[1305] row row your boat gently down the stream Wait did that hold on How many times do I do?

[1306] Wait I'm doing it right Right I'm sitting right Okay Oh wow I didn't know if I was supposed to do Roll your boat multiple times Okay I'm ready Okay okay okay Row row row your boat Gently down the stream Merely Merely maryly Life is but a dream I can't be doing it in the right spot It felt insane I think I came in at the wrong spot Well, once you get it, we'll add Robin But we got to get first one too I think we should maybe call Jess Yeah, let's call him And let's see if he can sing the camp song for us This could be a mean game Where we could like figure out who we think You would answer first Doesn't seem like it's set up for that I don't want to do I think you'd answer for you first Of course Oh my God, that feels so planned Guess you're on Air.

[1307] You're on candid air.

[1308] We're recording a fact check right now.

[1309] Hi.

[1310] I just tried to do row, row, row your boat.

[1311] Well, I succeeded.

[1312] Dax had a harder time doing row, row, row your boat in round.

[1313] And it reminded me of Camp Crazy.

[1314] And do you want to try it?

[1315] Yeah, but I forget how it goes, but I want you to sing it first for us.

[1316] So it goes, Camp, Camp Crazy, Camp, Camp Crazy, Camp, Camp, Camp Crazy, Camp, Camp, Camp, Camp Camp crazy camp, camp crazy, camp crazy.

[1317] Yeah, yeah.

[1318] Then I go, some call it fun and some they call it madness.

[1319] So come on along as.

[1320] Oh, my God.

[1321] Do you want to continue?

[1322] Of course.

[1323] Oh, my God.

[1324] I can't believe he knows it immediately.

[1325] Are we having fun need the tree?

[1326] And when it's a good song because it's camp.

[1327] Camp crazy.

[1328] And it matches up at the end.

[1329] Wow, it's sophisticated.

[1330] Crazy, Kim.

[1331] Oh, my God.

[1332] Okay, so now we got to hear it with you backing.

[1333] Okay, I'm going to try it.

[1334] It's so hard.

[1335] Yep, there's a lot going on.

[1336] You're holding a phone.

[1337] You're heading up with it while I do the other part.

[1338] And get the sound right.

[1339] Okay.

[1340] I also think I'm going to mute on this microphone.

[1341] Will I be able to hear it?

[1342] Yes, you will.

[1343] You will.

[1344] Okay, great.

[1345] Okay, Jess.

[1346] Well, who starts?

[1347] Will he be able to hear me?

[1348] He will not be able to hear you.

[1349] He has to.

[1350] Well, he can, uh, not if you're muted.

[1351] But he has to be able to.

[1352] But for him to hear you, this won't be playing him.

[1353] Yeah, it's going to be cut.

[1354] The whole thing will be cut.

[1355] So you're just guys, you're going to have to be, you're going to take your cue off now.

[1356] No, he has to take his cue off me, which is why he has to hear me. Okay.

[1357] Okay.

[1358] I'll hit mute as soon as he starts.

[1359] All right.

[1360] All right, Josh, you're ready?

[1361] Yeah, I have to sing with her, though, the first round.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] Ready?

[1364] Camp, Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Camp Camp Crazy Camp, Camp Camp Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Cam Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Camp Crazy Did it work?

[1365] Did it work?

[1366] A lot of it, yeah, you wouldn't, you can't hear her or then we can't hear you.

[1367] So you had to bite the bullet.

[1368] She had to pace her rhythm off of you.

[1369] No, but I closed my ears.

[1370] Oh, it was great, you guys.

[1371] I mean, it could only be so good over a phone, and I think we hit the point it could be i think you guys nailed it jess we'll do it in person one day yeah let's do it in person so next time love you i love you bye okay so it was a mess well i couldn't hear it because i plugged my ears yes and no it was pretty good okay all i could think when i was listening to it is if i were in my car i'd be like they made this song like it's it's crazy it's camp crazy well yeah It is Camp Crazy.

[1372] He's in it.

[1373] He knew that song already.

[1374] Oh, that's a real song.

[1375] It's a camp song.

[1376] Oh, we're going to get sued.

[1377] No. It's like Ro, Ro, Ro, Ro, Ro, Your Boat.

[1378] Oh, I thought he made it up.

[1379] No. Oh.

[1380] He went to a camp and they...

[1381] Called Camp Crazy?

[1382] I guess.

[1383] I would never send my kids to Camp Crazy.

[1384] Anyway.

[1385] Well, I sang for you.

[1386] I know.

[1387] Well, for everyone.

[1388] You did a great job.

[1389] Twice.

[1390] Twice.

[1391] Twice baked.

[1392] Good job.

[1393] Well, listen.

[1394] Between that and your character work, a lot of growth.

[1395] I've come out of, yeah, I've really come out of the closet.

[1396] A lot of growth.

[1397] If you will.

[1398] I can't wait to you start doing like Irish accents and Scottish accents.

[1399] Oh, my God.

[1400] Joyman accents.

[1401] That's like six years down the road.

[1402] Remember when I used to be the auto parts place?

[1403] And I'd be Schwarzenegger.

[1404] Yeah, I do.

[1405] Do you remember?

[1406] Do you like it?

[1407] No. You love it.

[1408] I'm going to cover my face so you don't have to puke.

[1409] I don't like that you have to cover your face.

[1410] Well, then cover your eyes.

[1411] Okay.

[1412] Now I can just talk freery.

[1413] It evolved.

[1414] All right.

[1415] Well, let's do some facts.

[1416] Let's do it.

[1417] Julianna Margulies.

[1418] I've heard of her.

[1419] Very trusted brand.

[1420] Okay.

[1421] What year was Steiner's work done in his theory on education?

[1422] published.

[1423] Rudolf Steiner.

[1424] He was an Austrian philosopher.

[1425] Ooh, and claimed Clavoyant.

[1426] What a ding ding, dingers from Austria.

[1427] The ding ding dingings are happening so effortlessly.

[1428] It's crazy.

[1429] Fast and loose.

[1430] Oh, so maybe I could play Steiner in this next bit.

[1431] Okay.

[1432] We'll see.

[1433] That was a no. Waldorf Education, also known as Steiner Education.

[1434] Is he also the inventor of the salad?

[1435] I wish.

[1436] I don't think so.

[1437] That's a great salad.

[1438] Is it?

[1439] The Waldorf?

[1440] Yeah, do I like that?

[1441] I don't think so.

[1442] Yeah, I think you do.

[1443] It has apples, right?

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] Okay.

[1446] You like apples?

[1447] They're fine.

[1448] They're fine.

[1449] I mean, I don't dislike them, but I don't like them.

[1450] You don't pine for them?

[1451] Never.

[1452] In fact, sometimes I see slices and I'm like, I don't want that.

[1453] Too much.

[1454] Yeah, too much crisp.

[1455] I like it.

[1456] The first Waldorf school opened in 1919.

[1457] Oh, wow.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] 102 years old.

[1460] A century later, it has become the largest.

[1461] independent school movement in the world with more than 1 ,200 independent schools and nearly 2 ,000 kindergartens located in 75 countries.

[1462] Well, now I'm nervous because the way we spoke about it, there's going to be a lot of people.

[1463] It's okay.

[1464] That's her opinion based on knowledge.

[1465] She went to these schools.

[1466] That is her story.

[1467] Exactly.

[1468] You have a really cool sweater on that people don't know you're wearing, and it says facts.

[1469] It says facts.

[1470] But then even more importantly, there's checkered race flag underneath.

[1471] I know.

[1472] It combines everything.

[1473] Kristen found this sweater for me in Paris, brought it home.

[1474] It's incredible.

[1475] She thought it was perfect, and it is, because it mixes facts with race cars.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] Okay.

[1478] When did the Miss of Avalon come out?

[1479] Oh, is it like Shazam?

[1480] There's no such movie?

[1481] No, oh God, that would be great.

[1482] No, it came on 2001.

[1483] Okay, 20 years ago.

[1484] It was a miniseries.

[1485] When Steiner's school was in its infancy, first 81 years, still on its infancy.

[1486] Wait, no. Yeah, Steiner was 81 years old.

[1487] It was?

[1488] In 2001, yeah.

[1489] But I thought it...

[1490] 1919.

[1491] Oh, is that what I said?

[1492] Yeah.

[1493] Yeah, I did.

[1494] Wow, good memory.

[1495] Thank you.

[1496] Okay.

[1497] How much is a bottle of absence now in Prague?

[1498] I mean, this is...

[1499] This is just fun facts.

[1500] In fact, it's hard because I'm not in Prague.

[1501] Right.

[1502] Okay?

[1503] The prices for a glass of absinth range from $450 to $11.

[1504] A glass.

[1505] I had absinth in Prague.

[1506] Me too.

[1507] And I brought some home.

[1508] Did they light it on fire?

[1509] Yes, of course.

[1510] Yeah, isn't that fun?

[1511] Light it on fire.

[1512] They put a sugar cube in there and then they light it on fire?

[1513] I think they put it in a teaspoon or something.

[1514] That's fun.

[1515] It was fun.

[1516] It's called the Green Ferry.

[1517] I didn't notice it made me feel any different.

[1518] It didn't.

[1519] No. I think they've taken that part out of it.

[1520] The opium or whatever fun was in it.

[1521] Oh, was there?

[1522] No, that's tequila.

[1523] It had mescaline in it.

[1524] Some alcohol, I think, maybe had mescal in it.

[1525] Maybe early.

[1526] It sounds like tequila, because tequila has mescal.

[1527] Muscal.

[1528] Mescal.

[1529] I don't, I'm not a big fan of mescal.

[1530] Or hallucinating from alcohol.

[1531] No. Yeah.

[1532] I do not think I would have been up for that, but that was out of your comfort zone.

[1533] Did Bill Lawrence go to Sarah Lawrence College?

[1534] No. He did not.

[1535] He went to William and Mary.

[1536] College of William and Mary.

[1537] That's weird.

[1538] That feels very competing.

[1539] Sarah Lawrence, William, and Mary.

[1540] These are like colleges named it for people.

[1541] I thought Sarah Lawrence was a girl school.

[1542] I don't know.

[1543] It sounds like one because of Sarah.

[1544] Sarah Lawrence College.

[1545] Liberal Arts College.

[1546] Let's see.

[1547] Ooh.

[1548] Was there nude of...

[1549] I mean, no, there's lots of women in this picture, but let's see.

[1550] Originally a women's college.

[1551] Oh, okay.

[1552] It became co -educational in 1968.

[1553] 1968.

[1554] Where was Steiner?

[1555] Yeah, so it was 49 years into its infancy.

[1556] It would be weird to say if you're a guy, I could see it would be hard to go like, I played football for Sarah Lawrence.

[1557] I know, but I want them to.

[1558] I want them to, too, but I'm also sympathetic to those who are like a starting quarterback.

[1559] Where Sarah Lawrence?

[1560] You don't have to be sympathetic.

[1561] They chose it.

[1562] you think they didn't I don't know It's not like saying It's a liberal arts college You played at Notre Dame They probably don't have a football team Oh okay let's hope not Let's hope so Let's hope so What parish in Louisiana Is Steven Seagal a sheriff in?

[1563] Oh boy This whole thing Oh gosh did we find out if he Oh please tell me Is he friends with Putin?

[1564] Look There were so many claims about him Yeah I don't care about one really If he's living in Russia Well, hold on.

[1565] First, let's start.

[1566] First things first, okay?

[1567] All right.

[1568] Jefferson Parish, Louisiana.

[1569] Because it was a show, Stephen Seagall Lawman.

[1570] Mm -hmm.

[1571] Reality TV show, Jefferson Parish for two decades.

[1572] Twenty years.

[1573] I've been working as an officer in Jefferson Parish for two decades under most people's radar.

[1574] And this is how it sounded.

[1575] That was in the VO at the beginning.

[1576] He's like, I'm under the sheriff down and Evanson Parish for two decades.

[1577] Oh, God.

[1578] That's what he said in the intro.

[1579] Do you know why I stopped you tonight?

[1580] People are like, oh my God, it's Stevenson.

[1581] No, let's not talk about that.

[1582] Do you know why I stopped you tonight?

[1583] They recognized him?

[1584] Of course.

[1585] Really?

[1586] I would never recognize him.

[1587] Oh, yeah.

[1588] I would in one second.

[1589] And it would be so weird if I was drunk, an officer that came up, the car was like, do you know what I stopped you tonight?

[1590] Yeah, it kind of just like throws everything away.

[1591] Oh.

[1592] Do you know why I pulled you over this evening?

[1593] You were swerving about like you've been drinking.

[1594] And unlike my first film above the law, you are not above the law.

[1595] Oh, wow.

[1596] I'm going to have to ask you to get out so I can conduct a field sobriety test.

[1597] You're over it.

[1598] You never know, we could have found something really good.

[1599] I know, but...

[1600] Like 10 minutes down.

[1601] And then you could cut out the annoying eight minutes.

[1602] Oh, that's not fun for me. No. Okay, is he a citizen of Russia?

[1603] Seagal holds citizenship in three countries.

[1604] Oh, wow.

[1605] The United States, Serbia, and Russia.

[1606] Oh, wow.

[1607] What is he up to?

[1608] There is an NPR article about how him in Vladimir became BFFs.

[1609] There is?

[1610] Oh, my gosh.

[1611] Bob Van Runkle introduced then.

[1612] Bob von Runkle.

[1613] Who's he, an operative out of East Berlin?

[1614] I don't know.

[1615] They said he's the Forrest Gump of U .S. Russia relations.

[1616] I don't know what that means.

[1617] Wait, is Segal is or?

[1618] No, Bob, Von Runkle is.

[1619] Oh, okay, Von Runkle.

[1620] Maybe I should give them a call.

[1621] I want to go to the Russian Grand Prix and I want to be a guest of like Putin or somebody.

[1622] I want to stay in the palace and get peed on and things.

[1623] Okay, so he also does he have a dojo in Japan.

[1624] He began his adult life as a martial arts instructor in Japan, becoming the first foreigner to operate in.

[1625] There it is.

[1626] A dojo in the country.

[1627] That's the claim.

[1628] Wow.

[1629] Wow.

[1630] Yeah.

[1631] I don't know how substantiated that is.

[1632] We talked about him so long and so much.

[1633] Yeah, he's so fascinating.

[1634] Okay.

[1635] How many Emmys has Julianne have been nominated for?

[1636] Three.

[1637] Way more than that.

[1638] Seven.

[1639] One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

[1640] Ten and one three times.

[1641] Good.

[1642] 30 percent.

[1643] That's not great.

[1644] That's great.

[1645] For a award show?

[1646] Yes.

[1647] Yeah, that's great.

[1648] But she has been nominated.

[1649] 10 more times than me and nine more times than you.

[1650] Exactly.

[1651] And she's won three more times than me and three more times than you.

[1652] Infinite because even three times zero is not three times zero.

[1653] Ew.

[1654] Yeah, it's hard to even figure out.

[1655] I don't like that.

[1656] I know.

[1657] Okay.

[1658] Well, that's it.

[1659] That's it.

[1660] That was the whole kitten caboodle.

[1661] Uh -oh.

[1662] What fuck pop out?

[1663] Something just jump off your computer screen?

[1664] Look at this.

[1665] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1666] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1667] Oh, wow, what a new picture.

[1668] Wait, there's, if you...

[1669] I wonder if he dives his beard.

[1670] What, no, look at his eye.

[1671] Wait, what's happened?

[1672] Oh, it's glasses.

[1673] Yeah, he's got yellow glasses on.

[1674] Did you think he was jaundice?

[1675] I didn't know.

[1676] Oh, you're worried about his kidneys.

[1677] Yeah, I thought that was his face.

[1678] Oh, no, those are tinted glasses.

[1679] But there's other things to be concerned about in that photo.

[1680] You know, I have a problem with this a lot.

[1681] I've realized.

[1682] What?

[1683] I mean, maybe it's just because my eyes aren't that good.

[1684] They're not great.

[1685] But, okay, this is what happened, guys.

[1686] So Stephen Seagal's page was up, but I didn't look at the picture this whole time, and now I just saw the picture, and I got a big, big, big pop out because he's wearing tinted glasses that are kind of like...

[1687] Almond shape.

[1688] Yeah, but they're like low on his face a little bit.

[1689] Exactly.

[1690] And I thought the bottom half of his eyes were orange half moons.

[1691] Right.

[1692] And it looks horrible.

[1693] Now, I've had this experience many times where I'm looking at a picture and I can't see the truth.

[1694] Oh, my gosh.

[1695] Like, it takes a second.

[1696] Like, every picture for you is a magic eye.

[1697] Oh, that's.

[1698] Yeah, like I was looking at my friend Zoe.

[1699] She had a picture on Instagram and she was holding one of her children's hands.

[1700] And her other child was next to her.

[1701] And the other child was missing an arm.

[1702] Oh, and you hadn't heard about that.

[1703] But I was like, oh, she was.

[1704] She colored out his arm.

[1705] Why?

[1706] I wonder what was on his arm.

[1707] Oh.

[1708] So it went from he didn't have one to, oh, no, she colored over.

[1709] I'm looking at the picture and I'm like, oh, there's no arm connected to that child.

[1710] Obviously, he has an arm.

[1711] So she must have erased it from the picture.

[1712] Oh.

[1713] But why?

[1714] Like, was there something on it?

[1715] Unsightly pimple or eczema, gray scale?

[1716] I didn't know.

[1717] I was worried.

[1718] And it took like three minutes before I saw he did have an arm.

[1719] He was just wearing a black.

[1720] shirt and it was blending into the black background.

[1721] Oh, okay.

[1722] And it was there the whole time.

[1723] The whole time he had an arm.

[1724] That sounds exciting to me. No, it's a lot of time wasted.

[1725] I know you so well that I know when you're confused.

[1726] I know, like, your voice is, you have such a specific register when you're confused.

[1727] I know it really, really well.

[1728] What is it?

[1729] I can't do it.

[1730] I just know when you're like, uh -huh.

[1731] You have like an aha that I'm like, oh, she does.

[1732] She's confused right now.

[1733] Are you sure that I'm confused or that I just don't want to engage in the conversation?

[1734] No, all of us have some concepts we don't get immediately.

[1735] Of course.

[1736] Yeah, and you're not excluded.

[1737] And when those times happen, I know it, like the second it's happening.

[1738] It's very arrogant to say.

[1739] Oh.

[1740] But it's probably true.

[1741] Telling the truth can't be arrogant.

[1742] Well, it's arrogant to say, I always know when you're confused.

[1743] Because I'm saying, what if in those moments?

[1744] I think they're definitely.

[1745] You're probably confused.

[1746] I'm probably missing many times that you're confused.

[1747] But you do have an uh -huh that I know immediately you're confused.

[1748] Okay.

[1749] Can you provide an example?

[1750] Just now did it happen?

[1751] What made you think of it?

[1752] No, it's happened like, say when David's giving us a conspiracy and he's explaining like one of the theories.

[1753] Uh -huh.

[1754] And you're like, uh -huh.

[1755] Well, almost just, almost.

[1756] But see, I understood you then.

[1757] I know, it's not that.

[1758] But you're like, uh -huh, uh -huh.

[1759] And then I'll go, no, no, like everyone's code, there's no human body anywhere.

[1760] And you go, oh, like, I just know the uh -huh.

[1761] Okay.

[1762] You're, are you feeling attacked?

[1763] I don't know.

[1764] Okay.

[1765] I haven't decided.

[1766] Oh, okay.

[1767] Jury's out.

[1768] Anywho, I regret telling you I know.

[1769] I should just kept that under my mind.

[1770] lid.

[1771] Probably.

[1772] It's a sign for me to slow down and connect with you and make sure that you know what I'm saying.

[1773] I don't know why I am feeling offended by this.

[1774] I know.

[1775] I don't know why either.

[1776] Well, I think because there's an insinuation that I'm confused a lot.

[1777] And then you have the answer to explain it.

[1778] I never made a claim on frequency.

[1779] I only said I know when you, you have an uh -huh that to me is very clear you're i can see the wheels turning like when you were looking at the picture and you're like where's the honor well i was definitely confused about the picture yeah it's okay to be confused i know that everyone's confused i'm confused all the time right but when you're confused i don't think i i would want you to notice and help me like quite often you and christin are talking about something and i've missed some vital piece of the setup and i'm struggling like what what are they referencing and if you detected in that and you go oh we're talking about the time mike came over and did blank that's a kindness okay yeah all right i have one more fact i just saw oh great it's kind of a fact so we talked about you were dipping in this episode oh yeah and we had a whole conversation about that remember she had a friend who came over to spit at the dinner table spit at the dinner table and then And you said actually you think maybe it is attractive.

[1780] Oh, in some perverse way.

[1781] Right.

[1782] Because if you saw a girl who was dipping, you'd be like, that girl doesn't give a fuck and that's attractive, which I get.

[1783] It imbues confidence somehow.

[1784] I see that.

[1785] And I think in some cases, sure, could be the case, is the case.

[1786] But also, if I saw someone dipping.

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] How do I do this without getting in trouble?

[1789] If I saw a girl dipping.

[1790] Okay.

[1791] Well, let me get an attractive guy.

[1792] No, it's not the same.

[1793] Okay.

[1794] Because what's giving a, is I don't give a fuck, but I actually read it as I'm insecure and I want to be like the guys.

[1795] See, I was just going to guess that that might be your assumption.

[1796] That is my feeling.

[1797] But that's a little anti -feminist of you, to assume that, that they're doing it to be one of the guys and not just pursuing their dreams.

[1798] It is.

[1799] lip cancer.

[1800] Well, maybe not to be one of the guys, but to be cool.

[1801] Uh -huh.

[1802] Like, not I want to do this because I love it.

[1803] Like, I want to do this because it's cool.

[1804] But can I say this is how there's a slight difference between dipping and smoking for me. If I saw a girl smoking, I don't think that's cool.

[1805] Right.

[1806] Because it's not so unattractive.

[1807] Dipping is so unattractive.

[1808] You have a cud in your mouth and you're fucking spitting in front of everyone into a cup that you carry around.

[1809] it is abjectly disgusting you can look sexy smoking so it's not like there's no bravery there like right you know if you're dipping in public like 98 % of the people are going to find it disgusting yeah and so there is a major confidence or just addict you're so addicted you don't give a fuck that everyone's put off by it yeah you know i don't i don't think anyone thinks it's attractive that I dip.

[1810] I think everyone thinks it's unattractive.

[1811] But I have been around a popular actress that was disgusted by it.

[1812] And I didn't give a fuck that she was disgusted.

[1813] And then I think that was a little bit of a ping.

[1814] Yeah, I get that.

[1815] Like when you say, I don't give a fuck if you think I'm gross.

[1816] What you're basically saying is I don't care if you're attracted to me. And anytime someone thinks subconsciously that the other person doesn't care if they're attracted to them, some weird voodoo happens in your head.

[1817] It's interesting.

[1818] There's something bizarre goes on, more than just seeing someone smoke.

[1819] Like, there's just a lot more to it.

[1820] Yeah.

[1821] I don't like it.

[1822] I know.

[1823] It's not to be liked.

[1824] Yeah, well, it causes cancer.

[1825] If it didn't, I wouldn't care.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] I mean, I still be like, you know, it's not the cutest.

[1828] But it's fine.

[1829] But it causes mouth cancer and tongue cancer.

[1830] And sometimes you've got to get your tongue cut out.

[1831] I couldn't live without a tongue because I just lived to talk.

[1832] Yeah, you're putting, yeah.

[1833] Yeah.

[1834] You're in trouble.

[1835] Yeah.

[1836] You're bad.

[1837] Okay, that's all.

[1838] All right.

[1839] I love you.

[1840] Love you.

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