S10 E5: [Angie] Dark Triad

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes can discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] If you're in need of support, please visit something was wrong .com slash resources for a list of nonprofit organizations that can help.

[14] Some names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by the guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of myself or audio chuck.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] My name is Angie, and I'm going to be telling my story of my experience with my ex -husband.

[19] I met my ex -husband in October of 2012, and I remember our first date was magical, kind of that fairy tale.

[20] It ended up lasting three days.

[21] We're both really big mountain bike racers.

[22] I was training for this big race, and it was the Ludville 100, and he'd raced it before, and he was dedicated to helping me be successful in this race.

[23] And the three days we just spent biking, and it was just kind of that honeymoon experience.

[24] I was working in a bike shop, and he'd bought like $11 ,000 worth of bikes, and one of the bikes that he had bought, me was for my race.

[25] And by the second date, he had told me that he loved me and everything was perfect and wonderful.

[26] The couple had been dating long distance, about two hours apart in neighboring mountain towns.

[27] Six months into their whirlwind romance, Angie was excited when her ex -husband Jeff asked her to move in with him and his two daughters.

[28] What I didn't know at the time and what I found out a couple years later is during our original dating, he was actually living with someone else.

[29] And she didn't know about me. And obviously, I knew nothing about her.

[30] I found that out probably 10 years later.

[31] He had a good job for this town.

[32] He's a director in a town municipal government.

[33] And he was like, you don't need to work.

[34] You can just ride your bike.

[35] You can train for your races.

[36] I need help.

[37] He had two daughters.

[38] I need help with the kids.

[39] And at the time, I was really self -conscious about not having a job, and I felt kind of less because I was quote -unquote mooching off him.

[40] But what I also later figured out was that he wanted that, like he wanted me to not have a job so he could have that control over me. And he sold it more of, I need help with the kids, you're the spike racer, you can train, and I bought into it.

[41] I was like, okay, this is going to be great.

[42] In November of 2013, so, I would say about six months after I moved up there.

[43] I remember I was getting ready for a snow bike race.

[44] And he was like laying on the floor of his office and he's just exhausted and tired.

[45] And this has been going on for like three or four weeks where he just couldn't ride his bike, which was very unusual.

[46] And I was like, what is wrong?

[47] Like what's going on?

[48] And I kind of had done some research and he was a big end of mountain biking.

[49] And he was in his mid -50s.

[50] And I realized that men in their mid -50s, often who ride bikes a lot, have really low testosterone.

[51] And I was like, you should go get this checked out.

[52] And he went to the doctor and the doctor was like, yeah, you have very low testosterone.

[53] I'm going to put you on the supplement to help with it.

[54] And so he kind of started taking it and it got better.

[55] He had more energy.

[56] He was riding again.

[57] But I started to notice these little changes.

[58] Jeff was older and much more established in life than Angie.

[59] He would give her his credit card and tell her to buy whatever she wanted.

[60] And for the first six months they lived together, things felt perfect, until she started to notice some concerning changes in Jeff's behavior.

[61] We were doing this bike race, and I was like a 12 -hour relay, so he would do a couple of laps, and then I'd do a couple of laps, and the goal is to see how many laps you can get done within a 12 -hour period.

[62] Probably on my second or third lap, I crashed, and I hit pretty hard, and you could see my kneecap.

[63] So I went to the medical tent, and they were like, you're done, you have to go get stitches on your knee.

[64] And he was livid.

[65] He was so upset that I had gotten hurt, and he was pissed, and he just got on his bike and just started riding.

[66] He wasn't going to be the one to take me. to urgent care to get stitches.

[67] And my parents were there at the time.

[68] And my mom tried to slow him down to tell him, hey, we're going to take her to the urgent care to get, she needs stitches.

[69] And he tried to run her over.

[70] And my mom is like 65, 70 years old at the time, kind of in frail health.

[71] And he wouldn't stop.

[72] And he finally gave up.

[73] After I came back from the stitches, he's like, okay, we're done.

[74] He gave up on the race.

[75] And he was just yelling and screaming at me because I had ruined his race.

[76] And, like, riding a bike and racing was so important to him.

[77] And I think that's why he was attracted to me in a lot of ways was because I had the ability that he didn't have and he wanted.

[78] And as weird as it sound, I was kind of his trophy wife in terms of what was important to him, which was athletics.

[79] If I wouldn't do well, I'd be like, oh, you know, like some of the top riders are runners and the kind of.

[80] country were there.

[81] And he was always like, you're embarrassing.

[82] You didn't win.

[83] That's embarrassing.

[84] I was like, these are the top runners and writers in the world.

[85] I'm proud of my fourth or fifth place finish.

[86] The longer they were together, the more pressure Jeff would put on Angie to win.

[87] She felt like he cared more about her winning than she did.

[88] He then began pressuring her in other aspects of their relationship.

[89] After about a year of being together a year and a half, My ex -coached me with this idea of having a threesome.

[90] And my background is I'm what they call vanilla.

[91] I've always had these monogamous long -term relationships.

[92] I don't have one -night stands.

[93] I don't sleep with random people.

[94] And I was pretty hesitant against it.

[95] He basically told me, I need this.

[96] And I don't think I can be in a relationship without this.

[97] The person I'm with needs to do this.

[98] I had no money.

[99] I had no job.

[100] I had nothing.

[101] He supported me. I lived in his house.

[102] I drove his car.

[103] I had his credit card.

[104] So originally I was like, okay, I will give this a try.

[105] We found this guy who had a lot of the same interests.

[106] And he seemed like a nice guy, kind of from the same area, it was a mountain by greater.

[107] And for me, it was kind of like, okay, this would be someone that if I wasn't already in a relationship, I would probably go on a date with.

[108] So I talked myself into it that way.

[109] And what I realized during the encounter, the first encounter, is that my ex had no interest in participating in any of this.

[110] He just wanted to sit there and watch and record and take pictures of me having sex with this other person.

[111] It wasn't your typical three somewhere.

[112] You think of everybody's involved.

[113] He was very separate for it.

[114] And he really had no interest in participating.

[115] in it.

[116] And the first time was horrible, but it was just really awkward and uncomfortable for me. And it didn't feel right.

[117] And right around that same time, my ex was like, because you're doing this for me, I feel like we should get married and needed health insurance.

[118] And he's like, let's get married.

[119] You can go on my health insurance.

[120] That way, you have some stability and some support and some kind of, I guess you'd say, financial stability.

[121] He knew that that was difficult for me to be financially dependent upon him.

[122] And I think he's like, we'll be married, we'll be equal.

[123] After Angie and Jeff got married, his controlling and sexually coercive behavior continued to escalate.

[124] For reference, sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that occurs when someone is pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a non -physical way.

[125] I was okay with that one guy, but then it started being more.

[126] The original guy wasn't enough.

[127] He's boring.

[128] I want something different.

[129] I want something more.

[130] And he kept really pushing me to go onto the website and find someone else.

[131] And there is a guy that we'd found on the website, and my ex wanted me to be with him, and I just wasn't comfortable with it.

[132] And I didn't know who he was, there was no common connections, there was nothing.

[133] And I told him, I was like, no, I just can't do it.

[134] And he's like, okay, that's fine.

[135] But then two days later, we're in Arizona, and he gets a flat tire on a bike ride, and he just loses it.

[136] And he starts throwing his bike and like literally stomping up and down, yelling and screaming at me because it was my fault that he got a flat tire.

[137] and how I had ruined everything in this bike ride and how it was all my fault and he just lost it.

[138] I call him tantrums because that's what it was like, had nothing to do with the flat tire.

[139] It was because I said no to the encounter with the guy in Arizona.

[140] And he developed that pattern of he would never yell at me for saying no, but he would find something.

[141] And it was always on a bike ride out in the middle of nowhere where nobody was around, where he would get really upset and he would throw things and he would always threaten to break things off and kick me out of the house.

[142] And he would stop talking to me for two or three days after these incidents.

[143] So this pattern started where he would just, either he and I would arrange it too, I guess I would arrange it because I felt more, like I had a little control in it.

[144] I knew it was going to happen.

[145] And I felt like, okay, if I have a little bit of say, if I have a little bit of control, if I have a little say of who these men are going to be that I'm with, it made it a little better.

[146] Later on, I realized that he used that.

[147] Like, you picked these men.

[148] You were part of it.

[149] He made me feel like I wanted this and I wanted to be part of this because of that.

[150] Jeff then made arrangements for a sexual encounter with a couple he found online.

[151] Which had been something that we hadn't done with, and part of it was being with another one.

[152] women, which I just had no interest in.

[153] I'm straight.

[154] I'd never had any interest in women and they wanted us all four to be together.

[155] And it was kind of weird in that it ended up she wanted to be with him, my ex, and I was going to be with her husband.

[156] And my ex couldn't, he could not have sex with her.

[157] And he had no interest in any sort of sexual act with her.

[158] And meanwhile, when I was with the husband.

[159] He was just so rough and it was so painful and it was just horrible.

[160] And I remember looking at my husband and just like, you know, with your eyes trying to beg someone to make it stop, this man is hurting me. Please don't just sit there and watch this.

[161] And it hurts so bad.

[162] And I remember we got done and I was just crying and in so much pain and it was so rough.

[163] And the next day I I just, I cracked.

[164] I'd had enough.

[165] And we got into this fight and I was yelling, you know I don't want to sleep with these other men.

[166] You know I hate this.

[167] You know I don't like this.

[168] Why do you make me do this?

[169] And I just left.

[170] Upset and in need of support, Angie went to stay with her parents for a few weeks.

[171] While living there, she communicated with Jeff mainly over email and text.

[172] At the time, I was struggling with an eating disorder and bulimia was kind of raging its ugly head.

[173] And he wrote to me, you have a disease that you have to live with, and I get it.

[174] Well, I have a disease too.

[175] And at that time, he had started ordering the testosterone from another country.

[176] So he was taking the dose that his doctor prescribed him, but he was also just taking as much as he wanted.

[177] And in that email, it was just like, and I got so mad because I was like, I was trying to hide the bulimia.

[178] I'm like, so you know about it.

[179] you're not doing anything to help me with it.

[180] And not only that, you're trying to say, my disease is okay, so your disease is okay.

[181] You think that I'm getting hurt by your disease.

[182] And he just couldn't get it.

[183] And he kind of saw them as the same.

[184] And he also wrote me, yes, I used you to get what I wanted, but it wasn't what you wanted.

[185] Never was and never will be.

[186] Sad part is I don't really want it like others do.

[187] For me, it's so much different.

[188] And later on, I would look at those, and it was just that concrete proof to me that he knew I didn't want to do it.

[189] There was no question in his mind.

[190] I had told him a hundred times how I hated it and how much I didn't want to do it.

[191] And it kind of helps me reconcile what I did because I think there's always some guilt and shame in it.

[192] And it made me realize it wasn't who I am.

[193] It's not what I wanted to be part of or what I was part of.

[194] I spent like a month.

[195] I was sleeping on friends' couches.

[196] I was trying to find a job.

[197] I couldn't.

[198] He was writing me in these emails, apologizing, trying to get me to come back.

[199] And I ended up doing it.

[200] And he ended up going, he said he'd go to counseling.

[201] So I said, okay.

[202] And it's so interesting that he ended up supposedly seeing this female, and I don't believe for a second that he did, seeing this female counselor.

[203] And his interpretation of her advice to him was that I was the one who wasn't willing to try new things.

[204] And I should respect his sexual deviancy.

[205] And I was the problem.

[206] And he needed to be with someone who was willing to meet those needs for him.

[207] And he even said that she wanted to have a relationship with him.

[208] And that's why he ended up going.

[209] And she would be willing to do this.

[210] And that was always something he threw into our relationship.

[211] all the time was that my ex -girlfriend would be willing to do this.

[212] He always made me feel like I was the strange one for not wanting to be part of this.

[213] Angie moved back in with Jeff, but she knew that she needed to get out of the relationship.

[214] Her plan was to find a job and become financially independent so she could move out and file for divorce.

[215] Right around the same time, he's like, I have a post -nup that you need to sign, and the post -nop gave me nothing.

[216] The house was his, the car was his, his retirement was his.

[217] And that was his kind of signal to me that because I'd said no, he was going to make sure that I didn't have anything.

[218] And at the time, he had plenty of money.

[219] He's trying to buy this close to a million -dollar house and he had these nice cars and his kids were in these really nice schools.

[220] He had his attorney draw up all the paperwork.

[221] And I was like, I can't afford an attorney.

[222] And at the time, I just had an appendicitis, and I was trying to pay off my medical bills, and he wouldn't help me with those.

[223] He webbed this weave of lies of why us being married disqualified him from a loan and how his kids needed a place to live.

[224] That was kind of always my weakness.

[225] I was like, I don't want to hurt his kids.

[226] I don't want to stop them from being in a house.

[227] And at some level, I was also like, it's not my house.

[228] It's not my car.

[229] It's not my money.

[230] It is his, and so I signed it.

[231] That was his kind of notice to me that if I said no to the sex acts, that there would be consequences.

[232] So like I said, I ended up moving back, but I also knew I had to get out.

[233] And so I got a job as a jail deputy in the county jail.

[234] I remember the day they offered me the job I was on a trail run, and I just started crying because I was like, it's over.

[235] I can support myself, I can have my own insurance, and it was kind of this incredible freeing moment.

[236] And I did finally, I finally said no more.

[237] Though the couple had separated and Angie had moved out, they were both local civil servants whose departments often worked with one another.

[238] That summer, she became concerned when Jeff told her he'd purchased a gun.

[239] He started getting guns.

[240] And I obviously worked in a jail.

[241] I carried a gun for certain parts of my job when we did transports.

[242] but we weren't gun people.

[243] That was the first gun I've ever owned.

[244] He'd never talked about guns.

[245] He originally showed up with a 9mm handgun, and I thought, well, I got a 9mm so he wants to get a 9mm kind of thing.

[246] He showed up with an AR -15, and I was like, well, why do you have an AR -15?

[247] He's like, oh, it's just kind of a reminder of my military days.

[248] He just kind of put it in a case and put it in the closet up high.

[249] It was just, to me, it was very strange, and I never really understood it.

[250] During a shift at the jail, Angie was approached by a sheriff who said he needed to speak with her privately in the captain's office.

[251] He said, hey, can we, we need to talk to you?

[252] And I was like, okay, this is kind of weird.

[253] The captain wasn't there.

[254] He's coming in over the phone, and there was a victim's advocate there.

[255] And they had told me that my husband had been arrested by the, police department, which was the town that he worked for, and that he was coming in.

[256] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[257] She had been under the influence and that she left him there.

[258] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[259] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[260] What happens next?

[261] Depends on who you ask.

[262] Was it a crime of passion?

[263] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[264] This was clearly an intentional act.

[265] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[266] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[267] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[268] Everyone had an opinion.

[269] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[270] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[271] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[272] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[273] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[274] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[275] I'm Sachi Cole.

[276] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[277] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[278] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[279] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[280] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[281] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[282] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[283] I mean, I was just shocked.

[284] And I was like, what is he coming in?

[285] And they said, for sex crimes against children.

[286] And it just thumped me. And I was just so confused.

[287] And I was shaking and crying.

[288] And I can't even explain it.

[289] I was supposed to start work with the agency, the police department, in two weeks.

[290] And so I had a contact with one of the commanders there.

[291] And I remember calling him crying.

[292] I was like, can you tell me what's going on?

[293] What is this about?

[294] He really didn't have much information to give me. Horrified, Angie went home to try and process what she had just been told.

[295] Later that night, Jeff called her house repeatedly from jail, claiming he was innocent of all charges and needed her help to pay his bail.

[296] He's begging me to bond him out and to help him get out.

[297] And I did.

[298] I remember talking to the bondsman and I was like, what is this about?

[299] And she was the first person that sit me down.

[300] And one of the charges was pandering.

[301] So he wasn't charged.

[302] with pimping, which means that you get money from it.

[303] But pandering is that you assisted the trafficking in some way, shape, or form.

[304] It kind of started clicking to me that he had a side business, a consulting business for IT.

[305] He said he bought this vehicle for this woman who was helping him run errands in the area.

[306] And he'd bought her a vehicle so she could help him with his consulting business and get clicked.

[307] I was like, that was part of the sex trafficking.

[308] It had nothing to do with his business.

[309] And so because they were using the vehicle that he bought to transport the minors to different areas.

[310] And he just took no responsibility for it whatsoever.

[311] He said, I had no idea this was going on.

[312] I thought they just wanted to have sex with me. We met at the hot springs.

[313] and for me it was scary because I was like he's going to kill himself I was pretty convinced of it and he would tell me I put the gun in my mouth last night and I almost pulled the trigger but then the oldest kid came home and I couldn't do it I felt like I had to be there for him so that he wouldn't kill himself and then that suicide kind of turned to anger and that's when I got nervous I would be having these conversations with him and they weren't arguments They were just stone cold conversations, and he was like, the Attorney General ruined my life because it was a grand jury indictment through the Attorney General.

[314] And these law enforcement people who investigate this, they ruined my life.

[315] They destroyed my life.

[316] They deserve their life to be destroyed.

[317] And they don't deserve to live because they destroyed my life.

[318] The look in his eye and the calm demeanor in his voice, this wasn't like I'm outraged.

[319] I'm upset.

[320] This was like contemplative thinking about how all these people deserve to die because they ruined his life because he did absolutely nothing wrong.

[321] I remember he told me that they wanted it and they liked it.

[322] And I remember having this argument with him.

[323] And I was like, no, she didn't like it.

[324] She's 17 years old.

[325] And I told him, I'm willing to bet you money.

[326] that she had been a victim of some sort of sex abuse.

[327] Later on, I did find out that the girl had been abused by her, I believe it was her grandfather, and that through this trafficking ring, it was kind of her way to get out of that abuse and how she kind of dealt with that abuse.

[328] He never went to trial for it because the mother was like, my daughter's been through enough with all the abuse.

[329] I don't want to put her through a trial.

[330] in any more trauma.

[331] And he couldn't see that.

[332] Shortly after his arrest, Jeff was allowed to resign from his job where he worked for local government for over 25 years.

[333] Angie transitioned positions from working at a local jail to the police department, the same law enforcement agency that had just charged Jeff.

[334] Though they were separated, she became concerned when he started exhibiting stalking behavior towards her.

[335] I went to go on a trip with one of my best friends.

[336] and it's a male, and we were going to go to Arizona and just run, because it's kind of what I do and do all these trail runnings.

[337] When I came back, I just moved into a new apartment, and there were roses on my coffee table.

[338] I knew it was him begging for forgiveness, and my friend's like, did you lock the door?

[339] And I was like, I don't know, maybe, maybe not.

[340] I couldn't remember.

[341] I was like, I think I did.

[342] I had a spare key underneath the mat, and that spare key had been pleased.

[343] in a baggie during the time I was gone.

[344] And it was kind of, in my opinion, it was him letting me know, I know your spare key is.

[345] And I believe that he probably made a copy of it.

[346] The next day, he had called me to tell me that he knew I went to Arizona with my friend.

[347] And I asked him, how do you know who I went with?

[348] Because I never told you that.

[349] And he's like, oh, well, I just happened to be in that area right at that time when his car was parked in front of your apartment, and he lived 35 miles away.

[350] And my friend was in front of my apartment for maybe 40 minutes max.

[351] That was part of why I was scared.

[352] There were probably three or four incidences where my apartment door would get opened.

[353] I remember one morning, I closed it, and I shoved my shoulder against it.

[354] It had been locked, and I knew for sure it was locked.

[355] I drove by the apartment because it was in this town that I worked in.

[356] I drove by and the door was closed.

[357] And I came home from work and my door was open.

[358] And I was like, what is going on?

[359] And I freaked out.

[360] I went to one of the detectives and told him, this is what's going on.

[361] I'm afraid.

[362] He's not stable.

[363] He has weapons.

[364] Frustrated that she wasn't being taken seriously by detectives about Jeff's increasingly concerning behavior, Angie also warned police about his recent firearm purchases.

[365] He was on bond at the time, and conditions of bond are that you can't have weapons.

[366] They were like, okay, we're going to have to send this up, the chain of command, because this is kind of a big deal.

[367] So I talked to my commander about it, and he's like, well, get your locks changed.

[368] So we got my locks changed.

[369] A week later, it happened again.

[370] I went back to my commander, and I was like, I came home, and my door was open again.

[371] He was like, it can't be him.

[372] we changed your locks.

[373] He can't get in.

[374] It's not him.

[375] You're forgetting to close it.

[376] And I was like, I know how to close the door.

[377] I know when I shut my door.

[378] He's getting in there.

[379] And it was kind of that feeling that nobody believes you.

[380] At that point, like, okay, we'll change the locks again.

[381] And we'll make sure that it's a brand new lock.

[382] You'll be the only one who has the key to it.

[383] After that, that was the last time that my door had been left open.

[384] I lived in fear.

[385] Around the same time, one of his former co -workers approached me and said, I think your ex was stealing from the town.

[386] And I was like, what do you mean?

[387] And he kind of explained this scheme to me about them stealing wireless fiber and reselling it.

[388] The guy really had no proof, and he wanted to be anonymous, but he's like, you should tell someone.

[389] And so I went to my boss, my commander, and I told him, I'm like, I have no proof.

[390] I have just someone telling me this.

[391] And I don't ever want to have this come to light and someone say, well, you had that information and you never gave it up.

[392] And it was interesting because he didn't blink an eye.

[393] And he was just like, okay.

[394] And that was it.

[395] The way the conversation went, it made me feel like I was kind of this vindictive ex -wife who was trying to get back at her husband.

[396] And he didn't ask a lot of questions.

[397] He's just like, I'll look into this and I'll keep you up to.

[398] I was like, am I just coming up with these things?

[399] Am I making these things up and does anybody believe me?

[400] Angie realized that since Jeff's computers had been seized by detectives, graphic personal photos and videos he'd taken of her may be discovered.

[401] And I don't want anybody to see those, and I really don't want my boss to see those and the people who I work with to find out what I did because I had so much shame and guilt about what I had did.

[402] I mean, that coincided with what he was doing with the sex trafficking ring.

[403] And I was terrified of being called in somehow into this trial, and I knew he was going towards a trial.

[404] I was so afraid, and I just stopped eating, and I became very suicidal and so depressed, and I was so afraid of him.

[405] I was afraid of what people would find out what I did.

[406] and my friend who I went to Arizona with, I remember he knocked on my door and he just looked at me and he's like, we have a huge problem because I'd lost so much weight and I'd made some statements to him that indicated that I wasn't really sure I could deal with this anymore and that he knew I had the gun and that I was kind of making plans to end my life.

[407] So he called in a coworker and they ended up calling in kind of a crisis response team and they ended up putting me on a mental health hold a 72 hour hold which is a hard thing for me I was in trouble I was in a very bad place but I don't know if that was the correct solution I have a support system that's really close to me and my family my parents are my everything and at the time I kind of knew in the back of my mind like I said I was working in law enforcement that I remember sitting on my floor just sobbing.

[408] This is going to ruin my career.

[409] This is going to end my career.

[410] And please don't do this.

[411] So when the 72 hour hold got out, and by then my parents knew what was going on, and I ended up going into treatment for, because the eating disorder was also an issue.

[412] And it was kind of in that that I first got introduced to trauma.

[413] I had no idea what trauma was.

[414] And I remember the therapist was like, you're in the middle of the storm and you're just standing there like, okay, like you're cool and collected and you're in the middle of this chaos and you're just standing there living through it.

[415] And I remember reading the book, The Body Keeps the Score, and kind of going through and realizing like what was going on in my brain and how I was in constant flight because I was constantly scared of what was going to happen and what was going to be next.

[416] and I started actually doing neurofeedback, which is kind of this therapy that helps teach your brain to not be in fear.

[417] It rewires your brain.

[418] And I remember they did these neuroimaging scans and my brain was bright red at the beginning.

[419] It was just lit up.

[420] And it just showed like it was proof.

[421] I was afraid of my life and I was in constant flight or fight mode.

[422] I started doing that treatment and that really helped and doing the therapy helped and like started to doing yoga and just trying to calm my brain down.

[423] Four months after beginning her treatments, the IRS contacted Angie to let her know that she was being audited.

[424] I contacted my ex and I was like, what is going on?

[425] And he's like, don't worry, let my tax guy handle it.

[426] All of our taxes were done by an accountant.

[427] I obviously did not trust my ex at all.

[428] At that time, I did know that he had more legal issues coming down the pipe.

[429] I didn't know exactly what, but I knew that there was more to come.

[430] I looked at our lifestyle and I looked at the house we lived in and the cars we drove and the vacations and everything.

[431] And I knew how much he made and it never added up.

[432] And I'd ask him about it and he was always like, oh, it's my consulting business.

[433] I make extra money doing that.

[434] It was always odd to me, but I was dealing with bigger issues and questioning him on his financials.

[435] It just wasn't at the top.

[436] So I went and I talked to the IRS and they asked me a lot of questions and it became pretty apparent to me and to the IRS that he had lied on a lot of his deductions.

[437] He lied a lot on his taxes.

[438] One evening, Angie and her dog were out for a trail run when a man she'd never seen before approached her.

[439] This guy stopped me and he's like, Hey, Angie.

[440] And I was like, yeah.

[441] It was night, and there was absolutely no cell phone service in the area.

[442] And he said, if you talk, there will be consequences.

[443] I'm Dan Tversky.

[444] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[445] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[446] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[447] She's like, I can't.

[448] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[449] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[450] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the download.

[451] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[452] Well, you were holding something back.

[453] Intentionally.

[454] Yeah, well, yeah.

[455] No, it's hysteria.

[456] It's all in your head.

[457] It's not physical.

[458] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[459] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[460] Or is it something else entirely?

[461] Something's wrong here.

[462] Something's not right.

[463] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[464] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[465] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[466] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[467] And then he just turned around and walked away.

[468] And I remember I just ran back up the mountain and hid in the trees for like an hour.

[469] And then I decided, okay, I'm going to make my way back down to my car.

[470] I had to get out of there.

[471] And I did.

[472] I never saw him.

[473] again.

[474] But I was terrified.

[475] It took me like a week to tell my commander what had happened because I was so afraid of what was going to happen.

[476] And I was like, he's not stable.

[477] He's made threats.

[478] He has weapons.

[479] I'm talking to the IRS.

[480] I'm threatening his finances, which is all that he has left.

[481] I remember at the time, I was trying to put together who I was married to and I was trying to put together who he was and what happened.

[482] And I came across this term narcissistic rage.

[483] And it's where a narcissist just kind of loses it.

[484] Their world starts collapsing and they lose it and they go into a rage and they either injure or hurt someone.

[485] And I tried telling my commander this was like, this could happen.

[486] And there's kind of this term dark triad.

[487] And it's like the narcissist and the psychopath and the McAvelism.

[488] And it's all into this triad of personalities.

[489] And I was like trying to tell everybody this is who he is.

[490] He is capable of hurting someone.

[491] My boss was like, he's bullying you, he's trying to intimidate you, but he won't ever hurt anybody.

[492] That's just not who he is.

[493] He's a wimpy IT guy.

[494] You don't need to be afraid.

[495] They'd have checks on my apartment, just kind of have guys walk by, make sure everything was okay.

[496] But they were doing that for my peace of mind, not what they believed was a true threat.

[497] I remember telling me, him.

[498] I'm like, have you heard the term red color criminal?

[499] My commander's like, no, what is it?

[500] I'm like, it's a white color criminal who turns violent when their game is up.

[501] And I'm like, that is who my ex -husband could be.

[502] I had my dad call him and even try talking to him.

[503] And I had disclosed the abuse to my commander after I got out of treatment because I felt like I had to get that off.

[504] And I was told, Angie, we will get him.

[505] We won't get him for what he did to you, but we will get him.

[506] Your accusations are so difficult to prove and they're so difficult to make charges against, but we'll get him for something else.

[507] And it never quite sat right with me. And I kind of backed off from the charges because I saw what his charges were for the sex trafficking ring.

[508] He got probation and no jail.

[509] time.

[510] And I was like, if he can rape a 17 -year -old girl and not get in trouble, what about what he did to me?

[511] There's no way any judge or anything is going to see that is wrong.

[512] So I just let it go.

[513] I was like, okay, I'm going to have to just accept that.

[514] But I kept telling them I'm afraid and I'm not just afraid for me, I'm afraid for all of you.

[515] He made those statements about law enforcement, about cops.

[516] He blames you guys for catching him and what he was doing and setting him up.

[517] In the summer of 2019, my ex was arrested by the police department that I work for on a multitude of felony charges that stemmed from embezzling close to a million dollars from that town.

[518] And it's interesting because when they went to arrest him, kind of, to me, it proves nobody believed me because they were wearing, there were only three of them, and they were wearing cargo shorts and T -shirts, and they had voluptproof vests on, only one guy had a body cam on.

[519] The other two didn't.

[520] And it showed that they didn't really worry that he was a threat.

[521] They thought he was just going to come easy.

[522] And there's body cam to this that has been made public.

[523] And he has would not get out of the vehicle, and he was fighting them with everything he had.

[524] He was trying to get back into his vehicle.

[525] He had his AR -15 in the back of that van, and he kept trying to get back to the cargo, back to the gun.

[526] They were able to break a window and get the keys out of the car and pull him out.

[527] And in that whole exchange, he kept going for their guns.

[528] And he kept yelling at them, kill me, kill me, just kill me now.

[529] And he fought my commander, who was one of the people who arrested him.

[530] He'd worked in a big department for a big city across the country for 17 years, I think, and he said he'd had very few people who fought that hard and who were that difficult to take down.

[531] And I have no doubt in my mind that he wanted to hurt them or himself, I think probably both.

[532] And they finally got him down and they were able to take him into custody.

[533] And when they did that, they were able to get his guns.

[534] Following his arrest, Jeff spent 60 days in the local jail before making bail.

[535] The judge ordered that he be tracked by a GPS ankle monitor and returned to court for trial.

[536] That fall, Angie was at work one day when she heard an alarming message come through dispatch.

[537] Jeff had tampered with his ankle monitor.

[538] And everybody went flying to the area of where his GPS bracelet was.

[539] I remember just standing there when that original broadcast went out and I was just frozen, and I was like, oh, no, what's he going to do now?

[540] And I was terrified.

[541] One of the other officers came and got me, and I was taken to the police department, and I felt safeish.

[542] But I was just, I knew it wasn't going to be good.

[543] I was like, this is not going to end well.

[544] They found both of his vehicles.

[545] He had cut his bracelet, and he'd taken off.

[546] Nobody knew where he was.

[547] About a week later, detectives were able to do.

[548] to locate Jeff out of state.

[549] Local news footage showed over a dozen undercover cars surrounding his vehicle.

[550] And it was interesting because this time when they contacted him how different it was, the difference in how serious they took his nature in that they knew he could be violent and he knew he could have weapons and that he would use them.

[551] My commander called me. It's interesting because the guy's kind of a no BS kind of guy and he gets to the point and And he was kind of, where are you?

[552] And I'm like, I'm driving my car, going to go run.

[553] Well, what are you doing?

[554] I'm kind of beating around the bush.

[555] And he's like, I hate to do this.

[556] But before it goes to the press, and he told me that my ex had killed himself, I started sobbing.

[557] And I remember saying to my commander, I was like, I don't know why I'm crying.

[558] I hate him.

[559] But I was just sobbing.

[560] I still really haven't figured out why I was upset.

[561] It's kind of a complicated situation.

[562] but I didn't want to talk to anybody, and it took me two or three days until I stopped crying, and I remember going back to work, and people were obviously talking about it and how difficult it was for me to be in that situation.

[563] And it was hard because I think some ways nobody knew what to say to me, so I felt pretty alone.

[564] Some people were like, we got him, it's over.

[565] Everybody was on high alert, and everybody was looking around and wondering, Is he going to come out and get us?

[566] What's he going to do?

[567] I think everybody was afraid.

[568] And I think there was some sense of like it's over and kind of, I'm not going to say happiness, but that it was done and that he was gone.

[569] But for me, it was more than that.

[570] I still am not sure why, but it was really, really difficult for me to handle.

[571] I think he was going to be facing close to 15 to 20 years in prison.

[572] And I just, I always knew it was going to end in bloodshed because I knew my ex -well enough to know that he was never going to go to prison.

[573] And I knew it was going to end like that.

[574] I was relieved that he didn't take anybody else out.

[575] That was my biggest concern is that he would take someone else out in that process.

[576] I remember feeling guilty that I was doing everything I could to help the police find him once he cut his bracelet.

[577] I felt guilty that I wanted him found, but I knew.

[578] that when they found him, it wouldn't end well.

[579] It would end in bloodshed.

[580] And that was really also this hard thing to come to terms with.

[581] I went through this, but also the healing from it.

[582] How do you get back to life after this?

[583] I talked a little bit about the neurofeedback of training your brain.

[584] And they're not your normal practices for therapy.

[585] And I think talking to someone in group therapy is very important.

[586] And I think your brain gets changed by trauma.

[587] And I don't think people realize that.

[588] It actually changes how your brain is wired.

[589] And it really changes who you are and how you feel and how you act.

[590] And you've got to rewire that brain.

[591] You've got to kind of calm it down.

[592] You've got to figure out how to feel safe again.

[593] And some of the neurofeedback that I did and the biofeedback, which helps kind of train your brain back to normal.

[594] And then I also did ketamine.

[595] which is a somewhat controversial treatment.

[596] I still struggle with the depression and at some level the eating disorder, but the ketamine really took away the suicidality.

[597] Because after he died, I started spiraling again.

[598] And I was like, I need to find something to help me deal with this.

[599] And I kind of started doing some research and ketamine's been using with both post -traumatic stress disorder and suicidality and how it helps.

[600] It's weird.

[601] I wasn't planning anymore.

[602] That's something I want to share with people because I know it's not a traditional mode of therapy and what I've found in this is there's other ways out there than just your traditional way and yes, talk therapy is important, but there are other ways that can help you deal with all of this that are also very effective.

[603] We discussed earlier.

[604] I was not a sworn officer in my position with the agency, police department that I work for and I wanted to be a cop.

[605] Because of my suicidality in the 72 -hour hold, I was told that I'm uneligible to be a cop for five years.

[606] And I'm in my 40s, so that's a pretty big length of time to not do that.

[607] But I discovered that I want to help people who go through this at some way.

[608] And it may not be by being a police officer, but I want to do it through something.

[609] And I think that's part of why I want to do this podcast because I got some pushback from my work on, doing this.

[610] And this violence happens everywhere.

[611] And I lived in a resort community and it was very wealthy and it happens everywhere and it happens to everyone.

[612] I come from a very good family.

[613] I'm tight with my parents.

[614] I have a college degree.

[615] I was a top level athlete.

[616] I was on the top trail runners in the country.

[617] Violence against women has no boundaries.

[618] And I think that's important.

[619] And I think there's always this stereotype of who the abused woman was or are.

[620] And it's all stereotypes.

[621] And it can happen to anybody.

[622] Since his passing, it's been an interesting period for me where I guess I'm not living in fear anymore and I'm not afraid anymore.

[623] And I can finally start to be like, okay, I've lived kind of captive for the past nine years.

[624] What can I do with my life?

[625] And that's what I'm trying to figure out right now.

[626] I'm so sorry for what you have experienced and what you've been through.

[627] I know you've had to work extra hard to make it happen and really sit with the decision.

[628] And I love that you ultimately chose to honor what you felt was right for you.

[629] I know I've learned a lot and it's healed pieces of me hearing your story.

[630] So you're already on your way helping others.

[631] And I know there's so many listeners that are going to be validated and healed through this.

[632] as well.

[633] So thank you again for sharing and taking the time.

[634] I am thankful for your vulnerability and bravery and discussing really, really hard topics in such a public forum.

[635] It's not an easy thing to do.

[636] And I'm wishing you peace and genuine love for your future and whatever comes next for you.

[637] Thank you so much.

[638] If someone makes you feel obligated or forced to do something sexual you don't want to, you may be experiencing sexual coercion.

[639] By definition, sexual coercion is the act of using pressure, alcohol, drugs, or force to have sexual contact with someone against their will and includes persistent attempts to have sexual contact with someone who's already refused.

[640] If you're in need of support, please contact Rain, the United States' largest anti -sexual violence organization at 1 -800 -656 -6 -5 -6 -Hope or visit online .org.

[641] Thank you for listening, and until next time, stay safe, friends.

[642] Something Was Wrong is an Audiochuck production, created and hosted by Tiffany Reese.

[643] Our theme song was originally composed by Gladrags, covered this season by Basic Comfort.

[644] You don't know me well.

[645] So what do you think, Chuck?

[646] Do you approve?

[647] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[648] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon music.

[649] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.