136 - The Uninhibited

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

[17] This is a true crime comedy podcast.

[18] listen you've heard it before look you know and look you know and look and listen and love it you do this we do this part yeah you do that part it always starts the same but with different words but you always get confused every time you must be reintroduced you know there's a lot of people in the podcasting game they feel it's very important that at the top of your podcast you establish what the name of your show is and what the theme of that show is also always and that's karen kill here.

[19] And that's George Hart's dark.

[20] We never do that part.

[21] We forget that part.

[22] And that's why everybody thinks we're the other person.

[23] Exactly.

[24] But we're not, we're the other person.

[25] It's very weird to both of us that you ever would be mistaken.

[26] That's right.

[27] About who we are.

[28] Because we are so into ourselves that we can't imagine that there's any quality about us that is like anyone else in the world.

[29] No, we're such individuals.

[30] Truly, truly unique.

[31] I have a cat on my lap.

[32] Karen has coffee in her hand hacky almost of how truly individual we are true um george is wearing a little sundress that i got her when i went to kawai that's right at the kawai drugstore i love it it's so comfortable it looks like a real dress it's exciting to give a gift someone actually uses it's a it's a secret not real dress that i wear out in public pretending to be an actually dressed person yeah and really i'm wearing fucking pajamas yeah you are you know what i mean i do and i respect It's respected.

[33] Thank you.

[34] Like, I can't get to the pajama pant thing yet that I see other women doing that I'm like, that looks okay.

[35] I could do that.

[36] I can't do that yet.

[37] You mean when someone's standing at like the red box machine out in front of the grocery store and they're wearing pants that have like Christmas trees on them and you're like, those are pajamas.

[38] No, not so much that because that's okay.

[39] You're at the red box machine you're going directly home.

[40] It's the more like the like I'm at a cafe working and I have like the you can't, I mean, there's a like there's a level of comfortable in your clothing that I just like that you can't.

[41] wear in public to me. I don't know what you're talking about right now.

[42] Like, you have to always be a little uncomfortable in clothes.

[43] That's why I change immediately when I get home.

[44] Again, just don't know what you're saying.

[45] Have never ever, ever felt that way or dressed that way.

[46] I'm getting there, hence the stress.

[47] Join me in Slobland.

[48] Listen.

[49] You're married, girl.

[50] You have nothing.

[51] You have no skin in this fucking game.

[52] I'm the one that should be uncomfortable at all times.

[53] All I want is to burn every single bra.

[54] I've already gotten to no fucking.

[55] underwire bras.

[56] It just doesn't exist in my life anymore.

[57] Ooh, I don't have a choice there.

[58] Right.

[59] Okay.

[60] Well, like, I do.

[61] So, like, why am I still fucking wearing wires?

[62] Yeah, fuck that shit.

[63] Dude.

[64] Get rid.

[65] 100%.

[66] Um, and with this dress, which is, like, got the scrunchy top, you know, so, like, it doesn't, you can't tell.

[67] It does the work for you.

[68] Yeah.

[69] And then it has these little bows up top.

[70] So, like, I can't even wear a bra.

[71] It'll, you know, it'll show.

[72] It's summertime.

[73] We all have to go bra list.

[74] This is a nightgown that should say, like, something, like a funny, like quote on the front that I just wear around the house how about fuck you i'm married that would be fun but okay immediately our new fucking t -shirt i'm not kidding you how many people would wear that what does it have on it what's the what's the what if it was just in real puffy letters like from the 80s like um you know like it almost looks like a cheerleader drew it on a poster yeah like fuck you i'm married like really excited and happy about it totally like jazz handsy yeah you know we might be cutting into the bachelor's party game right now.

[75] Oh, great.

[76] Let's do a fucking line of Bachelor fuckingette party closed.

[77] Penises everywhere.

[78] Bachelor fucking et.

[79] Because I was like, Bachelor doesn't make any sense.

[80] If you want to add something to the sentence that you said wrong and you say fucking in between, it just sounds like you did it on purpose.

[81] Yeah, that's your little conjunction freight train car that it gets you, it gets you back into the conversation.

[82] Are you talking about conjunction junction junction?

[83] Yeah.

[84] Why?

[85] What's your function?

[86] Now.

[87] Hey, real quick, speaking of merch, speaking of merch, Oh, merch.

[88] This weekend's Labor Day weekend.

[89] We're having a Labor Day weekend sale.

[90] We're a bunch of our stuff is on sale from the 31st of this month to the third.

[91] Yes.

[92] Go to My Favorite Murder .com and then go to the shop and I don't know what's going to be on sale, but I think it's cool shit.

[93] They're going to clear some shit out and then bring some new shit in.

[94] Oh, we're about to launch a motherfucking line of things that we've been.

[95] been asked about when are you going to dot dot dot yeah for two years I would say I am so excited about it I think people are going to be into it yeah yeah for sure and we both in this upcoming line have our own designs I would say that's right which is very fun we both went to like our sources and we're like draw me of this thing and they drew us to this thing in our own style so mine's like cute well I guess it's similar yours is to me very graphic yeah yeah Like, there's a real design element to it.

[96] And yours is, like, Chris Fairbanks did it.

[97] So it's, like, kind of sketched out and, like, cool and, like, skateboardery punk rock kind of a thing.

[98] I said, Chris, I'm from this dog town and the Z boys.

[99] Can you design me something from my taste?

[100] I used to skateboard.

[101] I used to fucking rip up rails.

[102] I'm Karen Kilgara.

[103] Chris, I'm all about Ollie's.

[104] And I talk about them constantly.

[105] So could you design me something from my world?

[106] You know.

[107] It's happening.

[108] Okay.

[109] okay so we were um uh we thought it would be fun because one of our one of the things we love the most about this community of murderinos is how many subgroups have started on facebook um for all the individualized groups of murderinos because there are so many of you you've decided to subgroup yourselves um according to interest and by cities and stuff which is like the best so there's yeah if you live live in a city and you're a murderer and you should definitely just go on to Facebook and look up and see because we just had one on Twitter someone tweeted I believe it was the San Antonio Murderino group small but mighty they posted something they had a meet up god damn it this better be San Antonio because I looked at it and I'm sure they had one too but they raised some money they raised like 250 bucks for it may have been in the backlog or joyful heart.

[110] The facts are loose.

[111] Look, my memory is not to be relied upon.

[112] We're loose with facts here, folks.

[113] Yes, and you know that.

[114] But people saw that on Twitter, and then all these people were like, wait, I need to know about this.

[115] I live near there.

[116] I'm so excited.

[117] There's some people near me. I have a page right here.

[118] I'm going to point to when they're going to get a shout out this week.

[119] My MFM podcast, Atlanta Group.

[120] What's up?

[121] Atlanta.

[122] Oh, yeah.

[123] Atlanta shows up strong Sure I'm gonna So Stephen printed out We were like print us a paper With all the names of the subgroups All the subgroup And he gave us like four pages So we're gonna We picked a few that we really love And we're gonna each name a few But it's also We're gonna try to name all of them Just so if your interest ever comes up Then you'll know Like for example And this is all on Facebook by the way FYI Yes these are Facebook pages The Cimarinos Who are people who love my favorite murder and also are fans of the Sims.

[124] And nature of Drew, they created a beautiful rendering of us.

[125] Three Sims characters in the, in the visage of Karen, Stephen, and Georgia.

[126] And Elvis, Mimi, and Dottie, which fucking, I appreciate so much.

[127] I look like a character actor from the 30s, who is 65 years old.

[128] Thanks for the face, whoever did that.

[129] Clearly not a fan of my work.

[130] I love my skirt.

[131] Okay, oh, I'm going next.

[132] Okay, murder emoes.

[133] Murderinos who are emo, which I, as a 19 -year -old in 99, 2000, can wholly appreciate.

[134] And it's fun to say, my favorite bad baby names, which is a subgroup, I guess, where they just share terrible baby names.

[135] As someone who has had so many boring desk jobs in my life, like, I appreciate these because, God, it's so boring.

[136] And then you go, oh, I actually do love that.

[137] I don't know why, but.

[138] And it's people like, so, like, even like, stay sexy and watch football.

[139] It's like, I kind of love that because it's like, yeah, this interest I'm into, but I don't want to talk to just fucking any idiot about.

[140] I want to talk to like my people about too.

[141] And then we could talk about like crimes that happen in the football community.

[142] You could use some sort of metaphor during the game.

[143] That guy's running up the field like a, like so many.

[144] And then just fill in the crime there.

[145] I don't feel like doing it.

[146] I don't watch football, so I can't do it.

[147] You do it.

[148] It's the Jeep arenas.

[149] They all have jeeps.

[150] They have jeeps.

[151] They love jeeps.

[152] They work on jeeps.

[153] I used to have a gold Jeep.

[154] And so I had a gold Jeep Cherokee sport.

[155] I bought it used, it must have belonged to someone who had a lot of money to throw away at the time and then got all that money taken away.

[156] Yes.

[157] It was like this beautiful gold two -door Jeep sport.

[158] My dad took me and I was like, I want that one, like a fucking idiot.

[159] And it had gold, like matching gold rims.

[160] Yes.

[161] It was like, gold on gold.

[162] It was like my baby, I love it.

[163] Wait, can I, was the year like 93?

[164] 92?

[165] I didn't drive until 97.

[166] So that would be great if my dad had taken me to get our car when I was 12 years old.

[167] Oh, that's right.

[168] Shit.

[169] No, it was like 99 when I got that car.

[170] It was great.

[171] Gold rims, girl, gold rims.

[172] First were Spondurinos.

[173] I would have joined that just for the stories.

[174] A hundred percent.

[175] Like you come home from a fucking rough shift.

[176] Okay, go on.

[177] Damn, those are, there's good stories on there.

[178] I like killing it.

[179] Murderistas, which is people who are into this podcast and fashion.

[180] Oh, I was going to say baristas.

[181] Okay, I get it.

[182] This one I get, because I've been there, customer service arenas, fucking tell me about it.

[183] Just flows off the tongue.

[184] I love that.

[185] I bet there's amazing stories.

[186] Oh, just complaining all day.

[187] I used to read blogs just of wait, wait, staff complaining.

[188] And it was just the absolute best fucking thing.

[189] So good.

[190] go um hold on oh drink arenas just i'm with you in spirit i'm with you in literally in spirits uh this one i like lawyer lorinos stay sexy and don't get disbarred yeah please don't we need you applaud arinos where apparently you go on there and they'll just celebrate if you have something like that you accomplish and you'd like some credit they'll applaud you for it which is beautiful Sweet.

[191] A plot arena.

[192] Of course we have library arenas, military.

[193] There's like the social work arenas, teacherinos, like the people who are like our fucking bread and butter.

[194] Getting together.

[195] Like our, you know, what is it called?

[196] The salt of the earth.

[197] Yeah.

[198] No, but like our fucking people.

[199] The people that are holding it all together.

[200] Yes.

[201] Thank you.

[202] Civil servants.

[203] Also, never forget complainerinos, which I know we've talked about on this podcast before, but they just get on there and bitch and they allow each other to bitch and that makes me laugh.

[204] I love it.

[205] mental reno's mental health worker murder junkies well that goes hand in hand with the bipolar rhinos oh which if you suffer from bipolar disorder then you've got some friends in the game I take that that's like group therapy right there that's an understanding which is really awesome like I went through this and everyone's like yeah we've been there yeah fucking taken out that's so nice that's great I have to shout out the murderino makers I follow them on Instagram they're just the people who fucking are creative and like half the boxes that we haven't opened or like from these people who are making shit selling them on Etsy or just doing it for fun such badasses so good here's i'll do the last one stay sexy and join another subgroup people addicted to joining subgroup i don't know can i do one more i'm sure thank you for being a friend erino golden girl fans yep that's rad you can do one more i didn't want to top you but i no no no that's fine okay that's fun um yeah so find your people um but then also stay here with us yeah don't go don't go away don't go It's not over yet.

[206] We haven't even started our...

[207] Do we have anything else?

[208] Um, I'm really into the sinner this season.

[209] Let's talk about it, right?

[210] You get it.

[211] You haven't watched it, right?

[212] I fuck yeah.

[213] I've watched every...

[214] I think I've watched every episode twice.

[215] Oh, I didn't know you were watching the new season.

[216] Why would I not?

[217] I don't know.

[218] For some reason...

[219] In fact, did I not have it be one of my things one week?

[220] The sinner is the show that I...

[221] Steve is nodding, but I don't mean...

[222] No, that means yes or no. Yeah, yeah.

[223] It was one of her things?

[224] Yeah, it was your hooray last week, I think.

[225] Well, shit, I am not paying attention.

[226] Don't look at me like that.

[227] Don't look at me in quiet judgment.

[228] I looked at her in quiet judgment.

[229] Then I close my eyes, which is really scary.

[230] If you're trying to freak people out of not being happy.

[231] Do it to me. Oh, like a, it's a disappointed in you.

[232] Yeah, I have to go deep inside because I'm so hurt.

[233] No. To me, I'm a cat person, so that means that you're being, when you slow blink.

[234] I love you.

[235] I love you too.

[236] Um, no, I love the, uh, my, I love the, uh, my, I love this season so much that I know it comes on on Wednesday nights, which I never know.

[237] Tonight.

[238] We should watch after.

[239] What is the, what's the girl from?

[240] You should stop recording now and watch it.

[241] Fuck it.

[242] What's the girl from who is, who might, I can't spoil this, but the, the girl who's, no, no, no, the girlfriend of the cop.

[243] She was from Mind Hunter.

[244] That's right.

[245] Sorry, do you, sorry, Elvis.

[246] Sorry, Stephen, do you mind looking up her name?

[247] She was, um, I just screamed and Elvis got real She was one of the, she would probably, she was the girlfriend of this fucking, of the cop and mind hunter.

[248] The young hot cop.

[249] Yes.

[250] God, thank you.

[251] You know how much that hurts when you can't think of it.

[252] And I'm a person I can never think of it.

[253] I do know how much that hurts.

[254] And I know how much it hurts when you think Carrie Coons is in everything and she's not.

[255] But she is in the center.

[256] Can I just say next time you're watching, uh, what's his name?

[257] Who's the best?

[258] Bill Pullman.

[259] And he's in a moment of like thinking, tell me that he doesn't look.

[260] like he's trying to see if anyone just smelled his fart like I swear to God he's looking around and being like did anyone just like in this like it's just like what the fuck man but it's really like did anyone just smell my fart well because he also has a guilty he always has a guilty little turn up of his mouth like he's smiling guiltily yeah that's why that's acting and I'm sure and that's acting if you can turn one side of your mouth in a different direction that's acting let me how's this step is I'm doing it am I doing it look at me Yeah, oh, you're, can you do it without moving your eyebrow?

[261] Nope.

[262] It just went, it looked like the Joker.

[263] Right, do it again.

[264] Damn it.

[265] Hannah Gross.

[266] Hannah Gross is the actress who, we don't know where she is in, on the center.

[267] She's fucking, oh, it's a good show.

[268] It's such, it's really set up well, I feel like, I think this is what I said last week.

[269] It feels like they took the things that were, were, what they led you to.

[270] to believe what's happening in the first season, and now they're giving you all of that mystery in the second season.

[271] It's like there, but it's like, it's like creepier.

[272] It's so creepy.

[273] I was going to say sorry.

[274] Say sorry.

[275] I was going to say sorry.

[276] Bill Pullman, the reason I've always loved him so, so much, because his turn, his star turn in the film while you were sleeping.

[277] It's one of the best romantic comedies there is.

[278] It's Bill Pullman, Sandy Bullock.

[279] I haven't seen it in so long.

[280] Please rewatch.

[281] Oh, he's the brother, right?

[282] Yes.

[283] And, And he thinks that she's marrying his hot brother that's in a coma.

[284] It's the best movie.

[285] It's the best idea for a movie.

[286] It's so charming.

[287] It's so Chicago.

[288] It's not stalkery?

[289] No, no. She's not, she, it's only not stalkery because she doesn't stalk him.

[290] He walks by her because she works at the L train.

[291] Okay.

[292] It's really good.

[293] Oh, right.

[294] I also want to plug for two, last two nights I didn't drink, which is a rarity for me. How was that?

[295] I couldn't sleep.

[296] Yeah.

[297] So I read.

[298] read one book in two nights.

[299] Yes, good.

[300] And also it didn't help because it was a really fucking good book and I couldn't put it down.

[301] And it's called, someone sent it to us from some fucking publishing, like people send us like books that match our shit and like, you know, whatever.

[302] But this one is like, okay, it's called The Innocent Wife by Amy Lloyd.

[303] It was like won the first book that you ever wrote for competition or some shit.

[304] It's like it was her first book.

[305] It's like Amy Lloyd.

[306] And she won that competition.

[307] Yeah.

[308] And it's like, okay, it's like, this chick falls in love.

[309] This chick is like obsessed with this guy on death row who killed, who got convicted for killing this little girl in his town.

[310] And they start writing.

[311] And she doesn't think he did it.

[312] And they get married in prison.

[313] He gets exonerated.

[314] Did he do it?

[315] Did he not do it?

[316] What's her life like now?

[317] Is this crazy?

[318] What's going to happen?

[319] It's like really good.

[320] His crime is, it's a little like reminiscent.

[321] Like she took pieces from West Memphis three kind of feeling like, what's hot name?

[322] from it.

[323] You know the hot one?

[324] Damon Eccles.

[325] Damien Eccles, yeah.

[326] It's like kind of like, that's like, it seems like that's the archetype.

[327] Yes.

[328] But it's like about this woman.

[329] That's fascinating.

[330] And it's like, oh, Jesus Christ, that seems like a big mistake.

[331] You know what I mean?

[332] I love that it's her point of view.

[333] Yeah, but it's also written from like, they're also like, this woman made a documentary about it because she thinks he's innocent and trying to get him exonerated like the movie.

[334] And like, so it's like pieces from that movie.

[335] And it's fucking good.

[336] I read it in.

[337] literally two fucking nights.

[338] Can I borrow it?

[339] Yes.

[340] You can have it.

[341] It's a big book.

[342] Say the name again for the people.

[343] The Innocent Wife by Amy Lloyd.

[344] Awesome.

[345] Good shit.

[346] All right.

[347] Good job Amy Lloyd prizes on your first trip around.

[348] First fucking fiction.

[349] And it's like, and who was she up against?

[350] Nobody.

[351] No. That year, no one else had written their first book.

[352] No, Amy.

[353] No, it's really fucking good.

[354] Hey, this is exciting.

[355] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[356] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[357] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[358] Who killed Saz?

[359] And were they really after Charles?

[360] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[361] This season, murder hits close to home.

[362] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[363] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[364] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[365] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[366] Get ready for.

[367] the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[368] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[369] Goodbye.

[370] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[371] Absolutely.

[372] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[373] Exactly.

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[376] That's right.

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[382] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales and if you're a business owner you can too connect with customers in line and online do retail right with shopify sign up for a one dollar per month trial period at shopify .com slash murder important note that promo code is all lowercase go to shopify dot com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today that's shopify dot com slash murder goodbye uh your first is it me all right good Good.

[383] Good.

[384] I'm glad.

[385] I'm not mad.

[386] But the only thing I am going to say, which I know is, well, first of all, I'm so angry right now because every time I print up my thing, I must have my printer set to something weird, because I put in, you have to put in the page numbers so that you don't lose track of your pages as you read the things as we.

[387] I'm saying you.

[388] I mean us.

[389] I mean me. and the last couple times I've printed things the page numbers simply aren't there I'm going to say formatting it's a formatting issue it's an insert issue listen as we told you we're fast and furious with facts and professionalism and fucking night shirts yeah but not not pajama pants what's the shirt saying again I'm fucking married fuck you I'm married fuck you I'm married I'm married I don't know if a ton of people have that feeling, but if they do, we want to be there for them.

[390] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[391] 100%.

[392] Okay.

[393] I get it.

[394] Let's just go and then if these are out of order, we'll just have to play by.

[395] Then the story's going to get weird.

[396] I just almost called Stephen Elvis.

[397] Did you hear me go, El Elvis?

[398] Record this podcast.

[399] You might have to edit around this.

[400] I'm used to it.

[401] You might have to like take pieces of this and put in the right order.

[402] Elvis.

[403] And again, I got this from, the first time I ever heard of this crime, it was an episode of criminal.

[404] I'm Phoebe Judge and this is criminal.

[405] You're just fucking criminaling it up.

[406] Well, you know, when you go on a road trip, especially a show like criminal, there's so many good ones that I was just keeping a post -it note of like, look this up later.

[407] Yeah.

[408] Whoa.

[409] Who was that?

[410] That's maybe.

[411] Okay.

[412] She likes to yell it out sometimes.

[413] Okay, Mimi.

[414] All right.

[415] I listened to it on Criminal, but then I watched a woman who is a professor and an author named Paula Uroboro.

[416] Uroboro.

[417] That can't be right.

[418] I think it is.

[419] Okay.

[420] She wrote a book called American Eve, The Birth of the It Girl and the Crime of the Century.

[421] And she then, when I went back to re -listen to that episode of Criminal to get the facts, she's the expert on that episode.

[422] what do you know so it's all the same i mean she's the expert on this crime and uh and what have you um so it's the this is the case of the original it girl evelyn nesbit and the murder of stanford white yes this is fucking the craziest story and old classic which i love okay so i'll just do it as quickly as i can't and then i'm going to get out of here i'm just kidding you got you got places to be and then you can do whatever you want i'm gonna fucking head out she's gonna go watch the center while I finish up, while I do my murder.

[423] I have to meet Bill Pullman downstairs if you don't mind.

[424] Okay.

[425] So this woman, Evelyn Nesbitt, was born, actually, Florence, Evelyn Nesbitt, in Tarantam, Pennsylvania.

[426] Just let us know how, let us know how I fucked that up.

[427] You will.

[428] On Christmas Day, 1884, although people aren't sure if that was the year because her mother faked her age to make her seem older for the labor laws.

[429] Oh.

[430] that's a first Yeah So she might actually Be younger than that She was Declared the most beautiful baby ever To have been born in that county Doubt it So Doubt it And also probably not that hard Yeah I mean back then Yeah babies were fucking They were all splotchy and shit So if you just had one that was like Kind of okay in the face They'd be like unbelievable Put her up on the pedestal They literally had a had a still in the middle of town.

[431] Yep.

[432] Okay, so everything was fine.

[433] Her father was a lawyer.

[434] Her mother was a housekeeper.

[435] And then he has a heart attack when she's 11 years old and leaves the family high and dry.

[436] So it dies or just leaves the family?

[437] Oh, he dies.

[438] Back then, if you had heart attack, you were immediately dead.

[439] There was no looking back.

[440] Got it, got, got, got, got.

[441] So, yeah, he dies.

[442] Okay.

[443] So her mother, her mother's name is Evelyn.

[444] So in the beginning of the story, Evelyn's name is Florence, and her mother's name's Evelyn.

[445] But I'm just going to switch that because she's mostly known as Evelyn, and it's a hard adjustment.

[446] So basically, Evelyn, she was a seamstress and she was a dressmaker, but she didn't, she mostly was a housekeeper or a homemaker, I should say.

[447] And so she didn't, they were basically had to rely on the kindness of their family and friends.

[448] so they stayed with relatives for a while and they kind of tried to keep it together and eventually people got like a pool of money together and gave it to the family.

[449] A Kickstarter.

[450] They GoFunded the shit out of this family at the turn of the century and that enabled them to buy their own boarding house.

[451] Damn!

[452] I don't know if that would be the move I would make because Mrs. Nesbitt was so timid that she was uncomfortable collecting the rent from the people who stayed there every month or every week.

[453] It's like your one most important job.

[454] It's pretty much it besides providing rooms.

[455] So she would make her daughter go because her daughter was so beautiful and charming that she would make the 12 -year -old go collect the rent from people who didn't want to give it to them.

[456] The whole thing seems not super great for a child.

[457] So basically that business ends up failing.

[458] They moved to Philadelphia in 18, Because they were from a small town outside of Philly.

[459] So they move into the city in 1898, and Mrs. Nesbik gets a job at Wanamaker's Department Store, which sounds like the name of department store out of a movie.

[460] Totally.

[461] She's a sales clerk.

[462] She also gets her two children, 14 -year -old Evelyn and 12 -year -old Howard, full -time jobs at this department store.

[463] Great.

[464] So everybody.

[465] Make a living fuckers.

[466] Yeah.

[467] All of y 'all, you've got to pull down some cash for the fam.

[468] Malie.

[469] So one day there's an artist that's at the store and she sees Evelyn and she thinks she's the most beautiful young girl she's ever seen.

[470] And she asks Mrs. Nesbitt, can she sit and pose for me for a portrait?

[471] Mrs. Nesbitt's like, sure.

[472] And so Evelyn does that and gets paid a dollar to sit for five hours for this artist.

[473] Hard pass.

[474] But back then that was $8 million.

[475] So it turns out great, and that artist ends up recommending Evelyn as a model to her other artist's friends.

[476] So then Evelyn starts getting modeling work regularly.

[477] Mrs. Nesbitt doesn't like it.

[478] It's a world that she doesn't think her young daughter should be involved in.

[479] Sitting for five fucking hours straight?

[480] Yeah, with a bunch of like bohemian red wine drinkers who are like, let's all be free.

[481] But the family obviously needs the extra money.

[482] Evelyn loves doing it.

[483] She begs her mother to let her keep doing it.

[484] And she starts making so much money.

[485] She gets to quit her job at Wanamakers.

[486] And she becomes the primary breadwinner of the family.

[487] So somewhere when all this starts heating up, Mrs. Nesbitt decides she's going to move to New York.

[488] She got a line on a good job where she might be able to be a seamstress for somebody or a dressmaker.

[489] And so she leaves the two kids with more family, in Philly and goes into New York City.

[490] But she doesn't get a job there because she's not as good as she thinks she is and everyone in New York is better than you at everything.

[491] We should all just accept that right now.

[492] If you're going to move there, prepare to suck for like seven years.

[493] So she ends up sending for her children.

[494] She moves in June of 1900.

[495] She sends for her children in November.

[496] And they all have to move into this single room in the back of like a shitty apartment building.

[497] Oh, man. On 22nd Street in Manhattan.

[498] Jesus, those places were, what are they called, tenement houses?

[499] Yeah, I don't know where 22nd Street is.

[500] I'm sure we'll hear about it.

[501] But, you know, it sounded shitty and turned the century.

[502] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[503] So, but all the artist friends that Evelyn made modeling, and she had a good reputation from Philly had already given her name to a really popular New York City artist named James Carroll Beckwith.

[504] Beckworth, sorry.

[505] And James Beckworth's patron was John Jacob Astor.

[506] Okay.

[507] And the Astor family was like the Vanderbilt and all those, the Tiffany's, all those super rich motherfuckers.

[508] They called them the 400 at the turn of the century.

[509] And they were like, it's like great Gatsby style where they had, they were, they were oil barons, coal barons, railroad barons.

[510] They had more money than God.

[511] They had everything.

[512] Yeah.

[513] And so she gets hooked up in like that real kind of, the basically patron artist scene.

[514] So everyone's a little bit more, I guess, better at art. Cairo?

[515] Yeah, classy.

[516] There's less spitting on the floor.

[517] The fucking red wine shit is more expensive.

[518] Yeah, there's actually coasters on the tables now.

[519] Sure.

[520] So Beckworth takes Evelyn under his wing and he starts getting her a ton of work and she starts to become one of the more popular models in New York City.

[521] She's making it there.

[522] Now she can make it anywhere.

[523] Um, then she gets photographed by two of the most well -known photographers of the day, Auda Seroni or Sereney and Rudolph Echemeyer.

[524] Photos.

[525] Photography.

[526] Because they can, this is the change where it used to be that all those print ads, people would draw a picture of a lady, you know, drinking, um, liquid cocaine and being like, cocaine, it'll solve all your teeth problems.

[527] And it'd be like, delicious.

[528] But that would just be a drawing that, that they would pay.

[529] an artist to render from I it's so weird to think that they needed a fuck an actual model to do that every time yeah because but remember those like and I'm thinking of this is like we in the 70s a lot of people had like this turn of the century wallpaper in their bathrooms that was like advertisements yeah so it'd be like oh I'm sorry advertisements oh an advertisement from New York City oh um but it was like the ladies with their hair up and drinking something or wearing a corset or whatever um so they were kind of really realistic looking drawings.

[530] But then photographs started being mass produced and they could replicate the photographs and that's right when Evelyn like basically...

[531] Hit the fucking thing.

[532] So she basically became Supermodel It Girl like before she was the first.

[533] Wow.

[534] So she modeled for Vanity Fair.

[535] She models for Harper's Bazaar.

[536] She models for the lady's home journal.

[537] She models for Cosmopolitan.

[538] She does ads for toothpaste hand creams she's on sheet music she's like you know the drawing on the front of sheet music um she's on beer trays which are like you know those um damn shit that's my dream to be on a beer tray she's on tobacco cards have to look that up later don't really stephen will tell us what a tobacco card is when you get a chance maybe it's a little like a baseball card but it comes in your loose tobacco or something oh yeah yeah of a sexy lady yeah um she's on pocket mirrors and postcards, and she's the picture on the top of the Whitman's sampler box.

[539] Wow.

[540] Which is super famous candy.

[541] Girl is counting it.

[542] Yeah, she made twice what other models of her day made.

[543] So she really was.

[544] So when she's 16, so she's still in early teens.

[545] She does all that.

[546] She's like, everybody thinks she's the most beautiful woman.

[547] And you can look her up, but I keep thinking I kept trying to put my finger on who she looked like she really doesn't look like I was trying to cast her like I like to do and she doesn't look like anybody but she reminded me of that kind of weird beauty that Winona Ryder had as a girl where you're like oh my god all your features are just so perfect and kind of big yeah and you can just tell she's going to be insanely gorgeous and she has Evelyn has the same kind of face but almost like a little bit more patrician a little bit more refined so she can look in one picture she can look really really young and then there'll be another picture where she's like almost naked and she looks really seductive and she looks like like like she's in her 20s so she's the girls got range Stephen let's cut to Stephen so tobacco cards are live on the scene in Milwaukee as cigarette cards or trade cards basically issued by tobacco manufacturers to stiffen cigarette packaging and advertise so they had like baseball players beauties, boxers and then in 2007 there was a card sold for $2 ,350 ,000 who was on it?

[548] It featured Honest Wagner one of the great names in U .S. baseball Sure.

[549] Yes, Honest.

[550] Oh, good old Honus.

[551] God, he's gorgeous.

[552] He's got the Cajonis.

[553] Honest was so much more beautiful than Evelyn.

[554] She always hated him.

[555] Okay.

[556] So it's like Marlboro Miles.

[557] What were those doing for those?

[558] Joe Camel Bugs?

[559] Yes.

[560] So filthy.

[561] Okay.

[562] So she, of course, because she's a teenager that's a model, she wants to go into acting.

[563] So she, this is when she officially changes her name to Evelyn.

[564] And she's like, sorry, Mom, you don't exist anymore.

[565] Mom's like, this isn't a problem for us at all.

[566] right so she gets cast as a chorus girl in the most popular play on broadway it's called the florida but she's so beautiful as a chorus girl she's upstaging the leads of this play stop it hey she's just radiant evelyn she must have been vegan um she must have been drinking cocaine she must have been loving that tooth cocaine uh so a man named stanford white he goes to see the show 40 times Jesus and And he's obsessed with Evelyn, and he's quite the expert on chorus girls.

[567] Great.

[568] Stanford White, he's the most popular and prominent architect and designer in New York City at the turn of the century.

[569] He designed, now, Phoebe, our hero Phoebe Judge says that he designed the original Madison Square Garden.

[570] Wow.

[571] But then I read on Wikipedia, he designed the second version of Madison Square Garden because there like one and they built knocked it down are you going to believe phoebe judge are you going to leave wicca fucking pia yeah i don't i i love them both so much i don't know who to choose but they've both done so much for us they have but here's here's what i will say at this time the madison square garden that was there um that this guy built whether it was the first whether it was the 30th yeah who cares he's the one that put up the big screens in madison square garden there was a tower on this matter this iteration of the Madison Square Garden there was a tower and on top of the tower it kind of looked like a bell tower on church and the top of this tower there was an eight foot statue of Diana and she was she's like doing some archery she's got a bow and arrow and there's a long beautiful long like it looks like a piece of material that's just kind of flowing out behind her but other than that she's totally naked and there were people that were real fired up about that not being there and not being able to be seen wait oh they didn't want it there they didn't want a naked lady to be up on the top of Madison Square Garden down everyone they were so pissed about it that the um because this is around the time so and this is uh straight from criminal in the civil war there was so much there was so much pornography left over from the civil war oh that all those soldiers are like can you please send me some boobs please yeah this is the worst situation yeah yeah and i need to look at some ladies parts there was so much of it that it like littered the streets after this civil war sounds like Las Vegas right now exactly so they did in 1873 they passed something called the Comstock Act which prohibited obscene material from being sent through the mail so people couldn't have that anymore but artists got around and like basically they basically just made everybody like a Greek, um, from Greek myth.

[572] It's not pornography.

[573] It's art. It's Diana.

[574] It's Lady Diana.

[575] Yeah.

[576] Exactly.

[577] Um, so the, and, and, you know, when you see this statue, it's gorgeous.

[578] I mean, and it's in some museum somewhere so you can see it, but it really is beautiful.

[579] But there was, there was this, um, after the Comstock act, there was this kind of like push in Manhattan to like clean up the city of vice and so one point they had that statue of Diana covered like so that she was wearing this big this big was it a night shirt yes it was it was it was pajama bottoms with Christmas trees on them she's standing in her red box they took the bow and arrow out of her hand and put a DVD in it so basically at this at the time this was they called it the gilded age and that uh mark twain it's a quote from mark twain because he said and this is you know this is along those great gatsby lines but like mark twain called it the gilded age because he said this on the surface it was shimmery and shiny and it was absolutely rotten underneath yeah so there's a lot of like you know the richness and the beauty and you think of everybody is like gips and girls writing their bikes and everything's really proper and high -necked and whatever.

[580] But there was some filthy shit going on.

[581] So back to Stanford White, he designed Madison Square Garden in this iteration, only the one I'm talking about.

[582] He also, he designed the arch in Washington Square Park, which they had put up for Washington's the 100th centennial of his inauguration.

[583] And everyone loved it so much, they left it there.

[584] I've seen it.

[585] It's him.

[586] That's our boy, Stanford, White.

[587] up, dude.

[588] He's good.

[589] He also, um, he designed mansions for the Vanderbilt and the Astros of 400.

[590] There's a really great Instagram account called Mansions of the Gilded Age.

[591] Yes.

[592] A lot of the fucking houses that they show in the sky, whoever it is, this guy or girl, like, knows so much about them.

[593] And it's, yeah, there's a lot of those.

[594] You know what's really cool.

[595] There's also a, there's a documentary called The Cruise.

[596] And it's about Timothy Speedlevich, who is this amazing gray line bus tour guide.

[597] and he walks.

[598] Oh yeah.

[599] It's such an amazing documentary if you haven't seen it.

[600] Please, please find it.

[601] I've seen it's great.

[602] It's amazing.

[603] And basically it's like I don't know anything about architecture.

[604] I get very scared when people start talking about things like that because immediately the voice in my head goes, you didn't go to college, you don't know what you don't have any appreciation for this and you can't.

[605] I'm the opposite where I know I can just go, that's fucking beautiful.

[606] Or I think that looks stupid.

[607] That's all you really need to say.

[608] It's true, but like I always think, well, I should know know why something's beautiful or how it's making that and if you watch that documentary called the cruise it's a person who loves architecture and the city so much that he can explain everything and he talks about like they used certain stone so that when like the noon day sun would come down those corridor streets with because high rises were such a new thing in new york city they would make they would pick rocks that would make the light like gleam glisten and like you would people would stand there it's just amazing um so this guy was obviously a big part of that sure and you can look he he also made he built a lot of clubs because he was like so they said he had like at least 60 projects going at all times 6 -0 it's fucked up um for real i want an app so so he had his hand in like because he also designed he didn't just build the mansions for the millionaires and billionaires but then he would do the interior design he had all these like big concept things that he would do for people it's really cool that's a whole like separate podcast i'm sure there's someone that's done it really well but he also built all these clubs because the rich at the turn of the century it was all about like the different clubs you belong to so it was like private clubs where you could like talk about being rich and shit that's right smoke cigars and then hire children.

[609] There was the Metropolitan Club, the Colony Club, the Harmony Club, the Union Club.

[610] Just so many places where white men could be themselves and finally relax.

[611] Finally.

[612] And just be rich in a room with other rich men.

[613] And so he was the architect for all these buildings.

[614] He was also known for having lots of relationships with young chorus girls because he loved to party.

[615] So he could party with anyone.

[616] He partied with super rich people.

[617] they adored him but also he was an artist truly at heart so he also hung out with bohemians and artist types so he could kind of party with anybody he was adored across the city and he is the person if you ever heard people make the joke of saying would you like to come up and see my etchings oh i've never heard that it's like joke is a strong descriptor but basically that is a thing like people it's a joking pickup line of like would you like to come see my etchings that's actually attributed to he had for white because he would really say that to these young girls um calm down dude right so keep your etchings in your pants so essentially he goes he sees evelyn as the chorus girl and he asks another chorus girl her name was edda goodrich he says basically get her get evelyn and bring her to my apartment on west 24th street that was built over the original f a o schwartz toy store and this was one of his many apartments around the city, he called them his snuggeries where he would meet chorus girls and have fun, sexy romps all day and night.

[618] So the two of them show up and Edna pulls Evelyn through the side door and they go up and it's this amazing room and it's got all the exterior light is blocked out by big old red velvet curtains and there's a table set for lunch for them and they drink champagne and then after they hang out for a little bit and chit -chat.

[619] And Evelyn, when she first sees him, thinks he's horrifying.

[620] He's super old and, like, super creepy.

[621] He's got red hair and a humongous mustache.

[622] And she's just like, no thanks.

[623] But they have some fun.

[624] And then he goes, oh, I have to show you this other room.

[625] And they go up two floors into this room that's, uh, that basically has a red velvet swing hanging from the high ceiling.

[626] And he asked Evelyn to get on the swing.

[627] And he asked Evelyn to get on the swing.

[628] and then Edna holds a parasol up on the landing or whatever, she's up near the ceiling.

[629] And Evelyn is supposed to swing on the swing high enough so she can kick the parasol and kick through it.

[630] That doesn't sound safe.

[631] Well, and also it's just so he can purve out and look up her dress.

[632] Ew!

[633] Because it's just him watching a younger, like swing and kick and whatever, but it's all like underpants.

[634] Sure.

[635] It's an underpants show.

[636] Undergarments then, I think.

[637] Right.

[638] It's bleners.

[639] It's underpants show.

[640] and I don't like it.

[641] She thinks it's just an innocent game that she's having good times with an old guy.

[642] So then Stanford White, Stanford White starts kissing up to Mrs. Nesbitt and basically is like, I'm going to be, I'm going to take care of this family, here's some money, we're moving you into a nicer apartment.

[643] He ships the little brother off to a really high -end military academy and takes care of his education.

[644] And he tells Mrs. Nesbitt she should go visit her family in Philly.

[645] She should take a break.

[646] break from work, go visit family, and while she's gone, he'll take care of Evelyn.

[647] Goodbye.

[648] Right?

[649] Mrs. Nesbitt's like, thank you so much.

[650] I've been waiting for years to get away from my children again.

[651] Can't wait to once again bail on my children.

[652] So the next day, Stanford White tells Evelyn that they're going to have a fun day of modeling for a photographer.

[653] I bet they are.

[654] He's got a bare skin rug.

[655] You can see these pictures.

[656] And this is in the YouTube video that I watched of the woman Paula Uru.

[657] boo roo who wrote American Eve and she has these amazing pictures he has a like a polar bear skin rug it's a white bear with the head and it's a really it turned it it became a really famous postcard of Evelyn in a kimono asleep on this rug passed out well yeah drugged is essentially I mean she's out like a light and it's just basically a picture of a girl sleeping on a bear skin rug yeah it's like the original Annie uh all of those photos from the 90s with the babies and the fucking what are the Annie what are the house like a baby with a piece of cabbage on top of the stupid nose Annie come on friends no I know exactly what you're talking about if I get it Annie everyone's screaming at home and Getties All I can think is little orphan Annie with the big white eyes with no pupe and I'm like, it's not her.

[658] I just want to say that Stephen didn't think of that himself.

[659] He had his phone.

[660] I looked it up.

[661] Yeah.

[662] I don't want to give him.

[663] He doesn't get any credit for remembering that.

[664] You get no credit for Ann Gettys.

[665] Or those Weimariner's that had human hands.

[666] Oh, no. Remember that?

[667] When they were, like, eating spaghetti?

[668] I loved those videos.

[669] So good.

[670] Okay.

[671] So, family's gone, right?

[672] He says, oh, I already read that.

[673] Okay.

[674] She's sleeping on a thing.

[675] That postcard becomes crazy popular.

[676] Postcard.

[677] So he then invites her back to a party.

[678] He says, I'm having a party tomorrow night at my apartment at the top of Madison Square Tower.

[679] So underneath that statue of Diana, there was like a little like penthouse apartment that he had built into that building that was his.

[680] So he's like, come to my party.

[681] Everyone's going to be there.

[682] So she shows up.

[683] There's no one there.

[684] And he says, oh, isn't it sad that everyone turned us down?

[685] So now he's red flag.

[686] red flag times 20 she should be like oh my god i have to really quick go tell the cab driver something yeah let me look at my watch that's made of um what was that stuff that opal no hold on uh shit would oh it was called uh luminous uh god i can't remember you might be too early for that shit you mean the stuff that people lick and then they got the terrible yeah yeah yeah yeah i think it's too early for glow in the dark shit that was world war one you're right you're right.

[687] Shit.

[688] Don't try to pull your World War I references into my story.

[689] Okay.

[690] So he starts pumping her full of champagne.

[691] Okay.

[692] And then he says, I have this room.

[693] I have to show you.

[694] You're going to think it's amazing.

[695] Once again, this fucking guy, he brings her into this room that has a mirrored floor, mirrored ceiling, a mirrored bed.

[696] No. A four -poster bed with mirrors all around it.

[697] And Evelyn says in her.

[698] autobiography that basically she looked at all of that and that's the last thing she remembered and she woke up naked next to him in that bed the next morning she sees her reflection in the overhead mirror and she's greens Ew, what a creep.

[699] Super creep.

[700] So essentially from that day forward she becomes Stanford White's mistress.

[701] No. But she's 16 years old.

[702] He's 48 I think.

[703] It's not a fucking love match in any way and they said in that episode of criminally said at the time the only way to prove rape was if there was evidence that you fought back that was the only way and then after basically this era in time that's when they put in the statute statutory rape laws but you know before then it was every man for himself every woman for herself right um and okay so then he says basically I'm going to get you connected with even higher classes of artists and that's when he in 1905 Evelyn poses for Charles Dana Gibson and he is um the artist who basically invented the Gibson girl and the Gibson girl is basically if you've ever been to the ice cream store at Disneyland the wallpaper is Gibson girls it's the really beautiful woman and he basically drew it was it was at the time like the ideal modern woman so she was usually like um a socialite of some kind um she was usually statuesque healthy looking riding a bike doing things of the day um whatever was popular playing tennis or something and she um and yeah basically it was just kind of the representative of like this is the ideal yeah the like what you should strive to be.

[704] Right.

[705] So he draws Evelyn, and he draws her in a portrait that he ends up calling the eternal question.

[706] And that's because Freud, there's a famous quote that Freud said, the eternal question is, what does a woman want?

[707] And so it's this really beautiful profile picture of Evelyn, and her hair is partly up, but then it's also partly down.

[708] And only young women wore their hair down.

[709] And then when you were older, married or mature, you wore your hair up.

[710] And so she was kind of like this half and half.

[711] She looked young.

[712] Not yet a girl, but not yet a woman.

[713] And it is that kind of thing of like, what is this modern woman want?

[714] Because it's because they're changing so quickly.

[715] It was on the cover of Collier's magazine.

[716] And basically that it was the picture that Coca -Cola ended up using in their app.

[717] Yes, I totally can see it my head.

[718] Yeah, you can, you've seen her.

[719] And so it branded her as the it girl and the face of the gilded age.

[720] Wow.

[721] So then she turns 17 and she starts noticing that Stanford White is paying attention to younger chorus girls.

[722] So she's aged out of his bracket.

[723] He's three times older than her.

[724] And she's still like, oh, no, I'm losing my boyfriend.

[725] Because by this point, she's kind of in it.

[726] She basically just is, she, it's whoever is there kind of like caretaking.

[727] Yeah.

[728] Yeah, and if they're millionaires.

[729] Yeah.

[730] And she's relying on them.

[731] Yeah.

[732] And she's, and relying on him for her career as well.

[733] So she decides, since he's seeming to lose interest, she decides that she's going to try to make him jealous.

[734] So she goes to a party and she meets John Barrymore, who eventually become one of the most famous actors from this insanely famous acting family.

[735] But at the time, he was Jack Barrymore.

[736] He was just a cartoonist.

[737] and he hadn't like become famous or anything um but they hit it off he at this party and she's like oh this will be good because then i'll make him jealous and it'll be good but she also liked him he asked for her number and writes it on she's like it's three because back then it's uh butterfield three five thousand um when he writes her number down he writes it on the cuff on his cuff of his shirt cute and then it's on yeah i know i really like that um they have a month long affair he proposes she turns him down under pressure from stanford white and her mother so like he comes in and says no you shouldn't get married no but he's also ignoring her yeah um then he basically when they realized that she's starting to do stuff like that they arranged to have her sent to an all girls boarding school in new jersey that's run by matilda demille who ceasel be the mill's mother.

[738] Whoa.

[739] And I'm sure.

[740] It goes all the way to the top.

[741] And it always comes back to liberal Hollywood.

[742] But at that point, I bet you, Evelyn, was like, it'd be nice to go to school.

[743] I'm 16.

[744] I wonder, or are you like, you want to send me to fucking school now after all I've been through?

[745] Like, can you imagine going to hang out with, like, other girls your age and you're like, what am I supposed to fucking talk to these girls about?

[746] Yeah, that's right.

[747] Have you guys been in a mirror?

[748] room it's really scary um okay so before she gets shipped away she is currently in a broadway play called the wild rose and in the front row every single night is a new admirer uh -huh uh -huh and he is a mysterious band called mr minroe he starts sending evelyn flowers stockings he one time sends her a piano she sends it all back one time she sent he sent flowers rose is with a $50 bill wrapped around the base and the mom kept the $50 bill and then sent the flowers back.

[749] Damn.

[750] Uh -huh.

[751] But she basically, he, in the almost exact same way Stanford White did it, he gets another course girl to get Evelyn to come to lunch with them and basically says, I'm the one that's been sending you all this stuff and I'm this huge fan and he kisses, he kisses the hem of her garment and, like, declares this love.

[752] And she's, once again, it's an old guy.

[753] He's twice as old as her this time.

[754] and she's like not into it and it mostly because he is the the eccentric millionaire Harry K. Thaw.

[755] So basically Harry K. Thaw is from a I believe it was a coal and railroad baron millionaire family.

[756] He was from Pittsburgh.

[757] He was set to inherit a $40 million dollar fortune.

[758] I thought I thought a millionaire.

[759] shut up go on just if you could see the pride in Georgia's face when she thinks of these things I thought I thought I thought get it because of thaw his name is thaw no I got it I mean great job he gets kicked out of Harvard he gets kicked out of law school he does the kind of stuff around town so he's basically the Philadelphia millionaire that's trying to make it in New York City and everyone's like okay crazy so he rides a horse a horse up onto the steps of the union club.

[760] He's lighting his cigars with $100 bills.

[761] Oh, he sounds like a douche.

[762] Yeah, he's duching it up.

[763] And Stanford White's like, no. So Stanford White won't let him in any club.

[764] Good.

[765] There's like a kind of a direct link of like Stanford White's on the way inside of New York Society.

[766] And this guy's trying to get in and everyone's like, I mean, that crazy guy from Pittsburgh.

[767] He's a huge nerd.

[768] Evelyn still goes away to boarding school.

[769] Oh, sorry.

[770] This is key.

[771] I'm catching up on my own page.

[772] I really love the thing of using a $100 bill to light your cigar in that at the turn of the century would be like using a $25 ,000 bill now.

[773] It's so much money.

[774] It's, I hate him.

[775] It's very wasteful, sir.

[776] He also funded a vice sweep of Manhattan.

[777] And he basically was, he was obsessed with virginity and obsessed with like chastity.

[778] and Rudy Giuliani's fucking great -grandfather or something we can trace them back and he was basically paid for the coalition that ended up getting that Diana statue covered it was his crazy money behind it and meanwhile he's sending a fucking 17 year old pianos and shit well okay and then some and then because get ready I'm ready give it to me so she just thinks he's creepy and weird and she goes off to the old girls school in New Jersey and then she gets what is reported to be appendicitis.

[779] And when Mrs. Nesbitt finds out, she can't get a hold of Stanford White.

[780] He is not around to help out.

[781] So she calls Harry Thaw.

[782] And Harry Thaw immediately sends like the best doctors to that school.

[783] The story is that she was given the appendicitis like in a classroom on a desk.

[784] But then there's rumors and innuendo that it was not appendicitis.

[785] It was an abortion.

[786] from her affair with Jack Barrymore, but both Evelyn and Jack Barrymore absolutely denied that that was true.

[787] Of course they did.

[788] So either way, Harry Thaw comes out as this white knight, and he saved the day, and Mrs. Nesbitt thinks he's great.

[789] So he convinces her that she should allow him to take the family on like a healing European vacation.

[790] And she's like, that sounds great.

[791] We barely know you.

[792] Let's do this thing.

[793] But instead of the rest and relaxation that he promised on this trip, he packs the itinerary and he absolutely just exhausts Mrs. Nesbitt.

[794] So she's basically...

[795] She's like, I'm 30.

[796] I'm too old to do this stuff, right?

[797] My lungs are filled with coal dust.

[798] So basically, there's constant fighting and problems between Evelyn and her mother on this trip, And they end up, she, Mrs. Nesbitt ends up staying in England and Harry takes Evelyn to Paris.

[799] So, but basically it was intentional on his part.

[800] When they're in Paris, he proposes to Evelyn.

[801] And, and of course, she's not into him.

[802] He's clearly kind of like crazy, real overtly crazy.

[803] But he's also like super rich.

[804] And she grew up, you know, around like hearing his name and, you know, the, the Thaw family was huge.

[805] in Pennsylvania.

[806] So she knew that she'd also lost a lot of status with Stanford White kind of like not being that into her anymore.

[807] And she was worried about getting more work and she was worried about a lot of stuff.

[808] So she was considering it.

[809] But he says he can't marry her until she tells him everything about the relationships that she had with Stanford White.

[810] Uh -oh.

[811] And she's like, no, I mean, don't worry about it.

[812] And he's like crying and harassing her through the night.

[813] till she finally tells the story of what happened to her in the mirrored room.

[814] And he goes fucking bat -shit bananas.

[815] And that's the proof he's been looking for because he's really pinpointed Stanford White as like the downfall of society in Manhattan.

[816] Oh, because he's all virginity shit.

[817] He's all virginity and crazy and whatever.

[818] Purity, all this bullshit.

[819] Yeah.

[820] So this is like the information that he's been waiting to hear.

[821] So then upon hearing that story, he accuses Mrs. Nesbitt of being an unfit parent, which he isn't totally.

[822] I mean, listen, Evelyn number one.

[823] Yeah.

[824] But then it creates a bigger rift.

[825] So then she's basically separated from her family.

[826] The old controlling boyfriend style.

[827] And then he takes, this is insanity.

[828] He takes Evelyn in Europe to all the sites where virgins were martyred.

[829] Great.

[830] So.

[831] Sounds like a fun time.

[832] I mean, and at the site where Joan of Arc was martyred, in the guest book, he writes, quote, she would not have been a virgin if Stanford White was around.

[833] And it's like that still exists?

[834] I mean, yeah, I think that's a provable thing.

[835] Holy shit.

[836] In the guest book, no less.

[837] And Joan of Arc comes back, she's like, could you not fucking do that?

[838] You know what?

[839] Motherfucker.

[840] I didn't die for this.

[841] You're the type I was fighting against.

[842] Also, how about this pixie cut?

[843] I love the movie Joan of Arc starring Milo Jovovich.

[844] Because no one, that pixie cut, no one can wear that pixie cut.

[845] but Mila Jovovich.

[846] So good.

[847] So proud of her.

[848] So then at their last stop, it gets worse, always, at their last stop at a castle in Austria called Katzenstein Castle.

[849] There are three staff members, and he makes them go stay at one end of the castle, and he holds Evelyn Prisoner at the other side.

[850] Cool.

[851] I'm with you so far.

[852] He ties her up, beats her with a whip, and sexually assault her for two weeks.

[853] Wait, where did this come from?

[854] I thought we were just being tourists.

[855] Nope.

[856] He has some issues with whipping, tying up, and beating people.

[857] I'm sorry, Mr. fucking purity.

[858] Yes, this is what I'm talking about.

[859] There's always, when you have those people that are like, we need to do this and that.

[860] It's like, really, how come, sir?

[861] And that really applies to everything all the time.

[862] Uh -huh.

[863] A hundred percent.

[864] Don't be passionate about anything or you seem like a fucking liar.

[865] What's my point is a good question to ask every once in a while?

[866] Yeah.

[867] What am I talking about?

[868] Right.

[869] So basically, horrible she it's exposed to her that he's basically an intense abusive sexual abuser and this is like what sex means to him you but then of course on their trip home he's incredibly apologetic and weepy and please forgive me and all this stuff now this is the point where mrs nesbitt gets remarried and is just completely estranged and evelyn knows there'll be she has nothing to go back to So she ends up on April 4th, 1905.

[870] She, Evelyn Nesbitt marries Harry Thaw.

[871] And he picks out her wedding dress, a black traveling suit with brown trim.

[872] Sounds so fun.

[873] Handsome.

[874] Goth.

[875] And his mother, he was a huge mama's boy.

[876] And his mother is insanely controlling of his life.

[877] And of course, she did not approve of a chorus girl.

[878] That was like, you know, to those super rich people.

[879] You're a famous model.

[880] Yeah, not good enough.

[881] No. She actually had a calendar come out around the same time, and she's basically nude, but she's got, like, flowers on her shoulder.

[882] It's very beautiful and tasteful.

[883] But, of course, at the time, it was insane.

[884] Mother Thaw tried to go out and buy up all those calendars, so no one would see them.

[885] Yeah.

[886] Or was she really into it?

[887] She just wanted to wallpaper her walls.

[888] Because she has secrets, too.

[889] They move into Mother Thaw's mansion in Linter's Pennsylvania.

[890] California.

[891] Great.

[892] And Evelyn is now cut off from the outside world.

[893] Um, Mama Thaw.

[894] Harry is his mother's lap dog, essentially.

[895] Um, and, uh, Evelyn is just stuck in a mansion, essentially.

[896] Um, sounds way more boring than you think.

[897] Like, way like less cool.

[898] Not cool at all because she has no money.

[899] She doesn't get to control anything.

[900] She just had to do what they want.

[901] It's haunted probably.

[902] Nightmare.

[903] That's super drafty.

[904] And she's just wearing that black fucking suit.

[905] So, also it's awful because Harry Thaw is so obsessed with Stanford White that he is like manic about it.

[906] He stews about it day and night.

[907] He rants about him constantly.

[908] They never leave the mansion for a full year.

[909] And he's just sitting around planning Stanford White's demise.

[910] Meanwhile, Stanford White has no idea about Harry Thaw other than he's that asshole that lights cigars with money.

[911] So, a year later on June 25, 1906, Harry tells Evelyn that they're going to take a luxury cruise to Europe.

[912] And she's actually excited just to get out of the house and get away from that mother.

[913] And she's really excited until he says, oh, but first we have to go into New York City before we see.

[914] sale, we need to go see the opening night of this show Mademoiselle Champagne by Edgar Alan Wolfe.

[915] And it's playing at the rooftop theater Madison Square Garden.

[916] So Evelyn's freaking out because she knows Stanford White will be there.

[917] I don't want to run into my ex.

[918] I get that, man. Exactly.

[919] It's his place.

[920] It's his theater.

[921] He designed all of it.

[922] He's at all these shows.

[923] She's freaking out.

[924] It's the middle of summer and it's really hot.

[925] Harry Thaw arrives wearing a big long black overcoat.

[926] But nobody thinks it's weird because he's the weirdo eccentric millionaire.

[927] Evelyn relaxes when they get there and she looks around and sees that Stanford White is not there.

[928] And so they watch the show, 10 minutes before it ends, they hear a little bit of a commotion in the back and Stanford White has entered the room and sits down at his table.

[929] So Evelyn tells Harry, she thinks they should go and he's like, you're right, we should go.

[930] They get up, they go to walk out, and as they pass Stanford White, white, Harry Thaw pulls out a gun and in front of 900 people, he shoots Stanford White twice twice in the head and once in the shoulder and kills him instantly.

[931] Holy shit.

[932] And at first people think he yells, um, you ruined my wife.

[933] But then later on, uh, the people that were nearby said, no, no, no, he said you ruined my life.

[934] So it's not about the wife.

[935] It's all about him, of course.

[936] Um, so of course, immediately Harry Thaw's arrested.

[937] Evelyn goes, stays at a friend.

[938] apartment.

[939] She is completely in a day.

[940] She has no idea what to do.

[941] She's not going back to that crazy mansion in Pennsylvania.

[942] And immediately it's a media circus.

[943] So this is the It Girl from four years ago and two millionaires and a murder.

[944] And of course, there's so much dirt to come out about Stanford White because now all of a sudden it's all the stories of his snuggeries around town and all the 14 year old chorus girls that are like, yeah, I know that dude.

[945] He sent me a piano, too.

[946] Oh, that was the other guy, but there's already...

[947] I'm sure he did it was.

[948] What?

[949] I'm sure he's done that before.

[950] Yeah.

[951] They used to...

[952] Back then, sending pianos was like a text.

[953] Did you get a piano from him?

[954] Oh, my God.

[955] He sent me a piano at 2 a .m. Do not write back to that piano girl.

[956] So there's no articles coming out that say was Harry thought justified because of Stanford White's terrible behavior.

[957] And Harry, of course, himself thinks he's going to get let off.

[958] because he did the world of service by killing white right a week after the murder there's a film called rooftop murder by thomas edison that's released in a nicolodean theater oh he just fucking bang that thing out and anybody who like when people constantly ask us about like how do you feel about this new trend in true crime and why everyone's interested in true crime right now and it's like no this has been going on since fucking thomas edison end before yeah that's this zone of art people are into it then i don't know there are people standing around gossiping yeah Look at her.

[959] Kill all this people.

[960] My God, that hair.

[961] Okay, so one of the quotes from the book American Eve that I was telling you about is from a tenderloin cab driver who, when a reporter asked him if he was, like, surprised by this murder, he said, I was surprised it was a husband who shot him.

[962] I always thought it was going to be a father.

[963] So that's how much people knew that Stanford White was into, like, young, young girls.

[964] Wow.

[965] Oh, tenderling cab driver.

[966] Handsome driver.

[967] Isn't that what they called him then?

[968] Handsome cab?

[969] Yeah.

[970] I think this might have been a little bit later.

[971] Oh, shit.

[972] But I don't know.

[973] It's just the 1960s.

[974] It's just so fucking, oh, I thought it was going to be.

[975] It's Robert De Niro as handsome cab driver.

[976] I thought it'd be a husband, too.

[977] But then he's like, giddy up.

[978] Yeah.

[979] Giddy up, Frosty.

[980] Harry Thaw, this is amazing.

[981] There are pictures of Harry Thaw in jail.

[982] He had, he called reporters, and to take pictures of him with his butler bringing him food from Delmonicos he had a little brass bed put into his jail cell so there's this picture of him sitting next to a brass bed with all these nice clothes folded over it and he's eating what looks like it's a room service tray Is he any aspic?

[983] Yes he's having some nice ass snails and aspic and a cling peach for dessert but it's the lawyers are like could you not do that's because he's like oh I think it'll stir up sympathy them seeing me trying to live my life in the jail cell oh honey they're like don't do that anymore yeah they he gets his doctor to convince authorities that he needs to drink one bottle of champagne a day I me I me too I same doctor Wilson okay so the defense tells Evelyn that she has to play the grieving widow on the on the stand and testify about what Stanford White did to her to justify what Harry that Harry murdered him and save him from the electric chair.

[984] And it's rumored that she was paid somewhere between $25 ,000 and $100 ,000 to do that.

[985] She gets on the stand.

[986] She talks about the red velvet swing, and it blows America's mind.

[987] People are freaking out.

[988] Like, there's nothing this salacious has ever been in the newspaper.

[989] And Stanford White, the victim, now gets drugged through the mud because of all the shit.

[990] And the Thaw family paid basically to have all this dirty laundry come out.

[991] They were handing out money left, white, and center.

[992] They also tell Mrs. Nesbitt that they will convict her for prostituting her daughter unless she testifies for Henry, Harry Thaw.

[993] Dude.

[994] And, but then Evelyn's brother comes back into the scene, Howard.

[995] And he's like, what's up?

[996] I'm back from military school.

[997] And I'm my own person.

[998] Yeah, forget about me. Because he was there to blame Evelyn for the murder and say that Stanford White was like a father to him.

[999] And it goes - Do you blame Evelyn the daughter or the mother?

[1000] The daughter, basically to blame her for her husband killing Stanford White and saying, I love Stanford White like he was my father.

[1001] Well, yeah, brother, because he didn't fucking drug and rape you.

[1002] That's right.

[1003] Yeah, he was gone.

[1004] He was benefiting from all that money.

[1005] He benefited purely just got the shit.

[1006] Look, this is typical this guy behavior.

[1007] But it turns into such a circus that this becomes the first jury in America that's sequestered.

[1008] they're this for this case they're like shush zip it everybody that that judge was like I'm gonna make up a thing yeah you guys all have to stay at a hotel hey what's a good word for it sequester it's called sequestered um the thaw family oh oh so this trial uh harry lawyer harry's lawyers say that he should plead insanity but mrs mrs thaw mama thaw says no fucking way there is no mental illness in this family Yeah, that means there's a hundred mental ailments in this family.

[1009] Her son from childhood, he was known as Mad Harry.

[1010] Oh, my God.

[1011] He was clearly, eccentric was not an accurate word for him.

[1012] So this trial ends up ending in a hung jury.

[1013] And after that is over, the Thaw family has a movie made called The Unwritten Law, and it shows Harry being found innocent and then freed while angels sing in the background.

[1014] Because that's what happened.

[1015] Because that's, just get that, get that proper.

[1016] Braganda out there.

[1017] Basically a documentary.

[1018] At the second trial, Harry's acquitted by reason of insanity.

[1019] He's sent to an asylum upstate.

[1020] Evelyn's not going to get any of the money.

[1021] She doesn't get shit because mother thaw is in charge and she blames Evelyn for his downfall.

[1022] Harry files for divorce when he's upstate in the asylum.

[1023] He escapes the asylum.

[1024] He goes to Canada.

[1025] He does what he wants for a while, just chills.

[1026] He's eventually brought back.

[1027] He's, and then released and declared sane in 1915.

[1028] but within a matter of years after that like basically everybody going he's fine now that was just a one -off Harry Thaw is arrested because a young boy is found in a days after jumping out of Harry Thaw's hotel room window where he was holding that boy against his will and whipping him yes and so then it turns out everyone starts to find out that Harry Thaw used to use the name Mr. Monroe when he was like people's secreted admirers because he had this whole scam where he would solicit young actresses to sign up for training courses in New York City.

[1029] And then he would get them in a room, beat them with whips, scald them with burning water.

[1030] Oh, my God.

[1031] But he was a millionaire, so nobody ever talked about it and nobody gave a shit.

[1032] And they just all like went away, like abused and like freaked out.

[1033] So she was like a masochist.

[1034] from day one and like that's what I love it's oh that shit is always underneath those people that are like clean up this city we can't have a statue of a naked lady juliani we're on to you easy oh sorry allegedly allegedly allegedly we're on to you so after all of this evelyn goes into vaudeville for a little while she ends up having a son named russell she claimed it was harry thought son some people argued that she opened to speak easy in the 20s She was an alcoholic.

[1035] She's a morphine addict through the 30s.

[1036] She started doing burlesque for a little while.

[1037] And this entire time, Harry Thaw surveilled her and watched her until 1926.

[1038] Evelyn lost her job at the Moulin Rouge Cafe and tried to kill herself by drinking disinfectant.

[1039] Harry Thaw came to visit her.

[1040] They reconciled, but were never together again.

[1041] Evelyn Nesbett ended up writing two memoirs.

[1042] One was called The Story of My Life in 1914.

[1043] and the other was called prodigal days in 1934.

[1044] Then this is kind of cool.

[1045] She has kind of a rebirth because during World War II, she taught ceramics in Los Angeles.

[1046] So I think she started, she moved to the West Coast and kind of started over.

[1047] She became like a hippie.

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] And she was paid $10 ,000 as the technical director for a movie that they made in the 50s called The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing starring Joan Collins.

[1050] Whoa.

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] So there was kind of.

[1053] this like a fictionalized movie I believe about her life that they that she got she was paid for Harry Thaw died in 1947 he left Evelyn $10 ,000 from his estimated $1 million estate Thanks bro Thanks good of you Evelyn died in Santa Monica A Santa Monica Nursing Home on January 17th 1967 Holy shit At the age of 82 Oh I but she was so cool as an old lady Yeah So anyway that's the unbelievable story of Evelyn Nesbit, the It Girl of the Gilded Age.

[1054] Karen, that was fucking excellent.

[1055] Thank you.

[1056] That was great.

[1057] Thank you.

[1058] And over to you.

[1059] We're back.

[1060] My co -host.

[1061] Don't forget we have Stephen Mann in the Street if we need him for any reason.

[1062] Over in Memphis.

[1063] Yes.

[1064] You know.

[1065] Walking the streets of Memphis.

[1066] Live from Memphis.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] Walking the streets.

[1069] All right.

[1070] Hoo.

[1071] Okay.

[1072] Here's another long one.

[1073] You and I picked.

[1074] Okay.

[1075] We went long this week.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] And we're going to now.

[1078] start your road trip now okay this is truly one of my favorite ones I've ever done yeah like truly one of my favorite murders I've ever researched did you know it when you started or as you went through okay so I've known about this one for a while it's an old old episode it was just a fucking five minute thing on unsolved mysteries originally oh season one like original so it's always been in the back of my mind of like this thing that happened what a weird curious thing and it's been a bookmark on my history like Like, you know, I have the like murders to do bookmark, and it's just always been one.

[1079] But I know it's a deep fucking dive, and it gets bigger and bigger the more you dive.

[1080] For example, True Crime Garage did a four, four fucking episodes, like four parts.

[1081] Shit.

[1082] Of this, like an hour long.

[1083] Hi, true crime garage.

[1084] High True Crime Garage.

[1085] It's funny.

[1086] So it's like a big one.

[1087] That's crazy.

[1088] So I did my best to like get as much as I could in there.

[1089] It also like my, as I love, it's a cold case and it goes to the fucking top.

[1090] It goes sick.

[1091] You know what I mean?

[1092] Yes.

[1093] So this is the boys on the tracks.

[1094] Oh, shit.

[1095] Yes.

[1096] You know?

[1097] I mean, I know, but I don't know.

[1098] Dude, you don't.

[1099] I didn't know.

[1100] No, but if I had known, I might not have tried to do this because it's so hard.

[1101] It's, here's what I know, pretty much only what was on untold mysteries.

[1102] And here's the thing.

[1103] When they did the unselfed mysteries, they didn't know shit either.

[1104] Right.

[1105] The episode ends with them going, they thought they saw a guy in Camo, like, walking around town that night.

[1106] That's it.

[1107] No, this goes to the VFa king top.

[1108] Buckle in, everybody.

[1109] Buckle the fuck up, motherfuckers.

[1110] Okay.

[1111] Let's start chronologically.

[1112] Let's just like start with the basics that we know.

[1113] Okay.

[1114] And then we'll get into the conspiracy shit.

[1115] Okay.

[1116] So on August 22nd, 1987, two teenage friends, 16 -year -old Don Henry and 17 -year -old Kevin Ives.

[1117] They're from Bryant, Arkansas, which is a little suburb right outside of Little Rock.

[1118] It's like a small town.

[1119] They're spending the weekend hanging out together.

[1120] They've been friends for a little while.

[1121] They're like, you know, normal.

[1122] teenage kids, popular boys are about to go into their senior year of high school.

[1123] They're totally normal like 1980s looking kids.

[1124] They look like they'd be in heavy metal parking lot.

[1125] Sure.

[1126] You know what I mean?

[1127] Like those hair parted up the middle.

[1128] Yeah, like kind of feathered out a little bit.

[1129] And like maybe a little duck tail in the back.

[1130] Just a tiny bit.

[1131] I think late 80s that that was starting to get.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] You were either going to be metal or new wave.

[1134] Right.

[1135] Oh, they were not going to be new wave at all.

[1136] Never.

[1137] These were going to be kids that were going, like they had their muscle cars that they loved they were going to be just like normal family men someday sure and we'll put a photo of them up with the post i mean they're like cute kids right like cute teenage boys um so let's see it's end of the summer they're starting their senior year it's a Saturday they're hanging out with some friends at the local fucking you know druggy parking lot as you do um in a small town exactly yep they uh the boys go back to don's house around midnight for their curfew check -in they were spending the night at Don's.

[1138] Don's dad, Curtis, checked in with them, and then he was, and then the kids, the boys were like, can we go out and go do some hunting in the woods, which is like their normal thing.

[1139] They grew up doing that.

[1140] Dawn was like, great, go for it.

[1141] See you later.

[1142] So the boys were going to do a thing of, a kind of hunting called spotlighting, which as someone from the suburbs, I don't know what the fuck that is.

[1143] Basically, it's an illegal form of hunting where you shine the flashlight into your praise eyes to stop them and then shoot them.

[1144] I guess it's illegal, but I heard that like with like sweet baby raccoons, it's not illegal.

[1145] Don't, please don't shoot raccoons.

[1146] Okay.

[1147] Um, who that'd be horrible to shoot a raccoon.

[1148] Well, raccoons are like actually really evil in some places, right?

[1149] Yeah, but still they're they're like little people in costumes.

[1150] They like, they use their hands like people.

[1151] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1152] And they look like cats.

[1153] Like, yeah, and they're up to something.

[1154] Like, Let them have their plan.

[1155] Remember when one ran in front of your car the other day when we were driving?

[1156] We were leaving my fucking parking garage.

[1157] Karen was driving you somewhere.

[1158] And one just like did it like, I might run into the, whoa.

[1159] And like Karen, like the cat fucking slammed on the brakes.

[1160] I was really impressive.

[1161] I am a graduate of the Bob Bondarant School of Driving.

[1162] That's why.

[1163] There you go.

[1164] No, that's a lie.

[1165] But my friend Andy Packard growing up.

[1166] I know.

[1167] I know it's a reference that only like 10 people in Northern California.

[1168] that Don and fucking Kevin would have known.

[1169] They would know.

[1170] For some reason, I think richer housewives to do something went to the Bob Bonder at School of Driving.

[1171] It was like escape driving and stuff like that.

[1172] That sounds amazing.

[1173] I think I'm already, like I'm not just a member.

[1174] I'm the owner.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] Judy Packard, my friend Andy's mom, who was the coolest and nicest mom, had a sticker for the Bob Bondor on school driving on the back of her 280 ZX, and that's why I always thought about it.

[1177] I'm on board.

[1178] okay so they go out around 1230 in the morning to go do this thing they have the flashlight and don's prize 22 rifle shotgun I don't know and they head out into the familiar woods that they fucking grew up like going through yeah so all right boom there that is cut to the following morning it's so it's now August 23rd 1987 at about 425 in the morning oh no a 75 car 6 ,000 ton cargo train is on its regular night run from Texarkana where you that crazy killer yeah to Little Rock so it's the servant girl annihilator no remember the guy who might be the zodiac killer the guy who was the city was afraid to go to sleep yeah town it was yes it might be the zodiac right so that's Texarkana okay so they're going from Texarkana to Little Rock is where Ted Cruz is from sorry silly Billy how dare you well this does go to the top maybe he's involved.

[1179] Okay.

[1180] The train is over a mile long.

[1181] It's traveling at speeds around 50 miles forever, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1182] The train starts to approach Bryant to, like, go through the little town there.

[1183] And engineer Stephen Schroyer notices something on the tracks ahead, as do the couple other workers on the train.

[1184] And, oh, my God, this guy gets, the Stephen guy gets interviewed in the original episode of, and he's just like, breaks your heart.

[1185] he's just like salt of the earth good guy and and it's completely ripped him apart yeah i mean yeah so at first they think what they see on the tracks laying on the tracks is an animal but in what but they notice in horror than an actuality they see two teenage boys or like young boys they think laying motionless on the tracks they're laying parallel with their heads on one rail their body across the tracks and their feet towards the other rail so like across the tracks like a robber would do.

[1186] And they know that the boys' lower bodies appear to be covered by a light green tarp and that beside them was the rifle also parallel laying on the tracks.

[1187] So this dude, Stephen Schroier, who's like a fucking veteran train dude, he frantically blows the loud diesel horn as he pulls the emergency brake, even though he knows there's not enough time for the train to stop.

[1188] He's hoping that they'll move.

[1189] But the train dudes feel the impact as the train hits and proceeds to run over the bodies of the boys on the tracks, which the horror, you know, it's like, sometimes I think about the people who like commit suicide by parking on a track and you just don't think about the people who are on the train, who you are going to scar for the rest of your life.

[1190] That's right.

[1191] Not that this.

[1192] Well, no, it's not the same.

[1193] But, but also that idea that you would know, it's almost like if they hadn't looked, then they would have hit and then it wouldn't have been as traumatizing.

[1194] Right.

[1195] But to know it, to try to prevent it.

[1196] To see it to happen.

[1197] to the tree.

[1198] Yeah, exactly.

[1199] But it's horrible.

[1200] It doesn't matter how you slice it.

[1201] It's horrible.

[1202] Well, it is, you know, you're right.

[1203] The police are, uh, steam radio, the police from the train.

[1204] And when the dispatcher says, have you gotten the injuries?

[1205] Stephen Schroyer says, no, we've got death.

[1206] Which I think is the most chilling thing I've ever heard.

[1207] So once the train comes to a stop, the crew, they exit to view the carnage just to see what the fuck's going on.

[1208] They had had experience hitting animals in their years as train dudes.

[1209] Um, none of them had ever hit a human, but they knew do expect a lot of gore.

[1210] But they were surprised by what they found.

[1211] So they were also avid hunters as well as having hit animals before on the tracks.

[1212] And they all knew that fresh kill had bright red, free flowing blood.

[1213] The blood from the boys was purple in color.

[1214] It was thick and oozing, indicating that the boys had already been dead for some time before the train had hit them.

[1215] By 4 .40 a .m., the local and state police had arrived at the scene and they began investigating.

[1216] As the train dudes explained to Celine County Sheriff's deputies on the scene about the curious lack of blood present, meaning to them that the boys had already been dead.

[1217] And add to that, the observation of the train dudes, and this part's fucking crazy, as they had approached the bodies on the tracks in the speeding train, blowing the horn like fucking mad, that fucking rails are shaking, the train coming towards them, neither of the boys on the tracks flinched or removed a muscle, something that one would think would be human nature when a speeding train is coming towards you, even if you intend to get run over.

[1218] So, like, if you're laying there to kill yourself, you're still going to, you know, roll into a ball or do something.

[1219] Right.

[1220] And even, say, maybe one of the theories is like, oh, they got super drunk or fucked up and passed out.

[1221] Hold the fuck up.

[1222] But, I mean, wouldn't the speeding train wake you up, even if, like, even if you were super drunk, but, yeah.

[1223] 100%.

[1224] They were like, they didn't even flinch.

[1225] Right.

[1226] So, but the scene was immediately treated as a suicide or traffic accident scene.

[1227] by the sheriff, despite the info pointing to foul play, this means that the scene wasn't properly secured, evidence wasn't properly collected.

[1228] In fact, the next train that was like waiting to come, they fucking let them gum through the scene and plow through the crime scene on Swade of its next destination.

[1229] They were like, go ahead, go through.

[1230] Yeah.

[1231] And even the paramedics were skeptical of the handling of the scene as an accident, and they actually attached a note on their report, noting that the condition of the boy's body, when they found them, suggested that they had been dead long before they were stuck by the train.

[1232] So they were like, fuck this shit and put a little like, really check this shit out, you know?

[1233] Oh, good.

[1234] So let's cut back to Don and Kevin.

[1235] When they hadn't come home that morning, Dawn's father, Curtis began to worry and notified Kevin's mother, Linda Ives.

[1236] Eventually, later that morning, Curtis hears a rumor from a neighbor.

[1237] So there's this rumor already going around town that two teenage boys have been shot and tied to the railroad tracks.

[1238] That's the rumor going around.

[1239] Oh.

[1240] And it wasn't long before the police show up and, uh, and the clothes the boys had left the night before in were IDed as the ones that, uh, Don and Kevin had been wearing and that the boys on the tracks had been wearing, thus confirming the deaths of Don Henry and Kevin Ives.

[1241] Hmm.

[1242] Which is so fucking awful.

[1243] So shortly after the medical report was released by the state medical examiner, this fucking dickhead named Dr. Fami Malik.

[1244] He's an Egyptian -born physician.

[1245] And he rules the deaths an accident.

[1246] In his report, he states that at the time of the accident, the boys were, quote, unconscious and in a deep sleep on the railroad tracks.

[1247] No. Under psychedelic influence of THC marijuana, when a train passed over them causing their accidental death.

[1248] No. He explained that the boys had smoked the equivalent of 20 marijuana cigarettes.

[1249] Impossible.

[1250] Have you ever passed out from marijuana?

[1251] want to and have you smoked 20 joints well and also in what that was like four five hours for yeah maybe four hours or so like yeah so i mean even fucking 10 hours five joints now yeah yeah but but still back to my thing of even if you were stone to the bone and like couldn't move yeah you're flinching if a speeding train is coming yeah you don't you don't go into a coma like state on pot especially fucking 1980s Arkansas Shwag?

[1252] Come on.

[1253] Right?

[1254] Half that shit was oregano.

[1255] It was fucking oregano stems and seeds and maybe a teeny tiny bit of swag.

[1256] That's it's so frustrating.

[1257] It's like anytime we talk about crimes that happened before 1995, it's like we're talking about it's the turn of the century.

[1258] Totally.

[1259] It's nuts.

[1260] It's nuts.

[1261] It gets nutser.

[1262] Okay.

[1263] The families of Don and Kevin are like normal fucking people.

[1264] So like you've got to be fucking kidding me dude what the fuck so knowing that the boys they weren't big pot smokers they weren't bad kids uh although a dime bag was found in one of the pockets um of the boys clothes but after their return to the parents which means they didn't really check the pockets at all so like the boys maybe bought a little bit of pot and smoke some pot but they weren't fucking drug you know dealers or anything hey listen bill clinton smoked pot he didn't inhale but he was around it wait that's foreshadowing what really yeah oh shit dude you gave me the chills just No. Okay.

[1265] Okay.

[1266] Irish psychic.

[1267] So, so, uh, the friends who had been in the fucking parking lot with them earlier said that they had enough pot for maybe a joint or two, like that's fucking dying bag.

[1268] Um, but the parents were like, there's no fucking way they would have fallen asleep on the tracks and not heard the train coming.

[1269] Like everyone who's listening to this right now is saying.

[1270] Right.

[1271] Okay.

[1272] Plus, weird things sort of popping up that made the families lose faith in the aptitude of Dr. Malik.

[1273] This dude sucks.

[1274] First of all, Of course, the town goes nuts, like, over this thing and wants to be looky -lose, goes down to the train tracks to look around for shit, like normal people.

[1275] And the family member, one of the boys, finds on the tracks a shoe with a foot in it.

[1276] No. From one of the boys.

[1277] No. Like two or three days after the accident.

[1278] And the fucking autopsy had already been fucking, like, done.

[1279] And no, and he didn't mention that there's a goddamn foot missing.

[1280] What the fuck?

[1281] Exactly.

[1282] the autopsy they also told the crew they told the train crew who has no stake in this whatsoever they're just telling it as they see it the cops tell the crew that although they had said they observed a green tarp over the lower half of the boys' bodies right before running them over the tarp must have been an optical illusion because it didn't exist oh guys that's not the option you have to look for it or you can't just hide it because it belongs to someone you know.

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] Or it says like the name of whoever.

[1285] My mind, that's the first thing.

[1286] The first thing is conspiracy, conspiracy.

[1287] What's hidden in those woods, those boys dropped out.

[1288] But is it a conspiracy?

[1289] Okay.

[1290] Okay.

[1291] It's that thing of like, if you're being paranoid, make sure no one's following that person first kind of a thing.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] You know.

[1294] You know that old saying.

[1295] You know that one I love that I watch on ancient aliens all the time.

[1296] And like a bunch of other shit that I don't have four episodes.

[1297] to tell you, like, True Crime Garage does.

[1298] I'm going to listen to True Crime Garage do it, too.

[1299] It's good.

[1300] Because there's nothing better than the details and, like, the super mysteries.

[1301] And there's, I have a bunch of references to tell you about, to watch, too.

[1302] Okay, cool.

[1303] To listen to read, too.

[1304] Okay.

[1305] So for five months, Kevin and Don's parents, who are fucking badasses and not letting, like, not letting this shit go?

[1306] They're normal fucking working class people, and they're, like, up against the fucking government.

[1307] Yeah.

[1308] But they do not let this go.

[1309] they try unsuccessfully to get the case re -investigated and nobody will listen to them so fed the fuck up they go to the goddamn fucking media because they're like you know who's going to listen to us when we yell at you over the media um very smart that's right the plan works because the next day after they do this like press conference calling everyone out on their bullshit the case is officially reopened finally and prosecutor richard garrett had the boys uh he's assigned to the case he has the boys bought exhumed for another autopsy this This leads to a creation of the grand jury that was led by an attorney named none other than Dan Harmon of Rick and Morty fame.

[1310] No, what if that was his first career?

[1311] No. It is his name is Dan Harmon.

[1312] To get away from all that.

[1313] His name is Dan Harmon, which is weird, but it's true.

[1314] So that's got to be weird when you Google Dan Harmon and you're like, wait, what?

[1315] Wait.

[1316] So he's a friend of the prosecutor, Richard Garrett, had been in the mix with the family from the very beginning.

[1317] He was an advocate for the boys' families.

[1318] He was like, what can I do for you free of charge?

[1319] He volunteered to them before requesting that the judge, who's presiding over the grand jury, appoint him special prosecutor to supervise the investigation over the debts because he's like, I want this to be fucking solid.

[1320] I'm in on this.

[1321] Like, let's do this.

[1322] So a new outside pathologist who's like Dr. Malick is kind of stupid concludes that the boys had - He says that on the record.

[1323] It's a quote, a direct quote, says that the boys had only smoked.

[1324] between one and three marijuana cigarettes after doing the tests.

[1325] They found that Don Henry's shirt had tears on the back of it that were consistent with a sharp object like a knife, not like how, it's so amazing how good these people are at their job that they can be like, this is a rip and this is a fucking like direct stab wound.

[1326] It's like they can tell.

[1327] So they find that in his shirt and on his body, they match up.

[1328] So like if he had been, if it had been from the train, like his shirt would have been pulled up, but it matched.

[1329] You know what I mean?

[1330] yes it was matching of a knife going in right beforehand and like the blood matched someone being alive not someone being dead beforehand so and injuries and bruises on kevin's face were consistent with a hit from the butt of a rifle or another blunt object so this is fucking pre -mortem right so in grand jury testimony the lead pathologist said that the boys quote were either incapacitated knocked unconscious possibly even killed their bodies placed on the tracks and the train of overran their bodies.

[1331] So in 1988, the grand jury reversed the ruling of accidental death and ruled the deaths to be probable homicides.

[1332] Okay.

[1333] Great.

[1334] Awesome.

[1335] Movement forward.

[1336] Step one.

[1337] Here we go.

[1338] But even then Dr. Malick has said that he said that he didn't believe anybody, quote, laid a finger on those boys.

[1339] Like he refused to believe it.

[1340] He wouldn't give over a bunch of like evidence.

[1341] He wouldn't give over shit.

[1342] He was just like fighting a tooth and nail.

[1343] Now here's the thing.

[1344] And this is a time where, you know, this is when doctors made a shit ton of money and they were like the end -all be -all of knowledge of all knowledge sure and and part of that it's like alec baldwin in that movie where he's like i'm not i'm not at playing god i am god where they really that's part of it 30 rock yeah love that movie good one but but i think now the part of the advancements i think of like criminal I guess to be this dumb and broad.

[1345] No, no, that sounds great.

[1346] That sounds correct.

[1347] It's just essentially people going, I don't know, but I'm trying to put the story together.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] Not that you have to come in and be the final word expert because that's just a setup to be wrong.

[1350] What are people saying, I want a second opinion and the doctor not being like, fuck you.

[1351] Right.

[1352] It's just like, no, you should get a second opinion because what we should want here is the truth and the solution, not me to win some game that that's not really what happening.

[1353] That's right.

[1354] And Dr. Malick was like 100 % off.

[1355] on board.

[1356] Let me tell you some more information.

[1357] Okay.

[1358] Okay.

[1359] This is where we get into the like, here are the facts.

[1360] Let's get into the fucking deep dive mother.

[1361] This is the beginning of it.

[1362] So his controversial ruling, all right.

[1363] So this thing about Malik is he had this controversial ruling in the case of a patient's, so there's this patient who died in a hospital.

[1364] And the woman who was facing legal issues was a the nurse anesthesiologist?

[1365] No. Anesthetist.

[1366] That's a hard one.

[1367] It is a hard one.

[1368] She was a woman named Virginia Kelly, and he helped her, in the case of a patient's death, helped her avoid legal issues while she was already facing negligence and malpractice charges.

[1369] So he helped get her off by like writing these, like, you know, fudging it a little bit.

[1370] Fudging it a little bit.

[1371] Does the name Virginia Kelly sound familiar, Karen?

[1372] She had, Angel of Death?

[1373] Nope.

[1374] Oh.

[1375] She is the mother of the man who, during the time of this case, the grand jury case, uh, she's the mother of the fucking governor of Arkansas, Bill fucking Clinton.

[1376] What?

[1377] Uh -huh.

[1378] Bill Clinton's mother was -old -of -a -ta -h was accused of malpractice?

[1379] She, twice.

[1380] Listen, I am a fucking liberal as fuck.

[1381] Whitewater?

[1382] If you think that I believe a thing a politician says, either side.

[1383] Oh, no, no, yeah.

[1384] Yeah, this isn't political.

[1385] This is fucking polititional.

[1386] I think also, if we've learned anything in the past two years, is that pretty much anyone involved in the government is crooked as shit.

[1387] A lying liar who fucking lies.

[1388] We were all being lied to just endless.

[1389] And if you've only learned that in the past two years, then welcome to the fucking parade.

[1390] Thank you.

[1391] I'm glad to finally be here.

[1392] Karen was just believing all of it.

[1393] damn i really wanted that to um not be bill clinton's mother i know i know i know shit i know i know know okay but also if you have more than one malpractice yeah sorry we can't afford it like no the average person i mean okay so there is a i want to really quickly say that there is a book and like you can't get all this you can't get all the deep dives and all of this in any of the like articles and there's like videos and documentaries and shit you have to read um the boys on the tracks by this woman named Mara Leverett she like gets into all of this shit which I have to read I haven't read it yet but like it's like about the case and like what malpractice suits there were and what happened which I've read about and they're bananas.

[1394] It's all bananas.

[1395] Okay great.

[1396] We just don't have time.

[1397] So Bill fucking Clinton he so this Dr. Malik reversed these fucking charges against Bill Clinton's mom.

[1398] He's the governor of Arkansas.

[1399] Okay.

[1400] So maybe that the boys on the tracks was his first, Malik's first fuck up, right?

[1401] Like the first thing that he, like, ruled incorrectly.

[1402] Okay.

[1403] Well, over his career, his rulings and testimonies became problematic in more than 20 additional deaths.

[1404] No. So he's the angel of death, but just post -mortem.

[1405] Right.

[1406] There are multiple instances showing that Malik testified erroneously in criminal cases, that his rulings were reversed by juries and that outside pathologists challenge his findings.

[1407] And my God, you need to read about it because it's bananas.

[1408] give you two fucking really great examples.

[1409] Okay.

[1410] One case from 1985, a man was found shot dead in his yard.

[1411] Malik ruled the death of suicide, but this dude had been shot five times in the chest.

[1412] Come on.

[1413] In another case, a man was found dead in his home, and Malik attributed his death to an ulcer.

[1414] Okay.

[1415] But the dead man had been decapitated.

[1416] Okay.

[1417] Listen to me. No, no, no, no, no. Hold up and tell you before you listen to me. Hold up because there's more.

[1418] When Malik was questioned about this.

[1419] Hold it before you listen to me. Malik said that the man's, the man had been sitting in dead in his house for a while and that the dog had chewed through his neck and chewed his head off.

[1420] What the, and that's how he got tocapitated, even though it was a clean fucking slice.

[1421] And this led to, the testimony led to a murder, the murder lead suspect going free.

[1422] Sir.

[1423] What is your, what is your damage?

[1424] Seriously, I was going to say, may I ask the eternal 80s question?

[1425] and what is your damage.

[1426] Were you really going to ask that?

[1427] Yes.

[1428] What the fuck?

[1429] Dude.

[1430] A hundred.

[1431] This immediately makes me think of that blood's better expert in this staircase.

[1432] We're just like how he got away with that multiple times.

[1433] And it's this weird thing of like, wait, he believes himself.

[1434] That's like the, that's the scariest thing of someone who like is clearly full of shit or lying or wrong and believes themselves.

[1435] Yes.

[1436] That's the scariest thing.

[1437] Yeah, it's easy to get carried away with like what.

[1438] knowing things means about you.

[1439] Right.

[1440] Well, the families tried to like argue, like argue with Dr. Malick initially of like this, how can you think, like tried to reason with him.

[1441] Dr. Malick got pissed off, pulled out the fucking autopsy photos of their children and tried to show the families these photos, sir.

[1442] And one of the fucking police officers, sir, had to like, be like, don't fucking do that, dude.

[1443] Like, this guy's very problematic.

[1444] Okay.

[1445] Boop, blah, blah, blah.

[1446] Five times in the chest.

[1447] Okay.

[1448] When Governor Bill, Clinton was asked a comment about Dr. Malick's bullshit.

[1449] He praised Dr. Malick's work and stated that the mistakes came from being overworked and underpaid.

[1450] So Dr. Malick had clearly fucked up the case of Don and Kevin, which Karen, you and I would think would leave a slap on the wrist or something, right?

[1451] Sure.

[1452] We would think.

[1453] Yeah.

[1454] But no. Two months after the grand jury ruling about the probable murder, Clinton sent a proposal asking to raise Malik's salary by 41 .5 percent.

[1455] Right?

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] Yeah, that's pretty.

[1458] unforgivable.

[1459] Exactly.

[1460] oh, here's just a great side note that I thought you would like.

[1461] At a hearing about this pay race, two months later, Linda Ives, Kevin's mother, and other Malik haters formed an organization to like stop this from happening.

[1462] It was called Victims of Malik's Incredible Testim.

[1463] And the acronym Vomit.

[1464] What's her name?

[1465] Linda Ives.

[1466] Hell yes, Linda Ives.

[1467] Vomit.

[1468] How great is that?

[1469] Well, also.

[1470] just how disgusting this is like to watch somebody not only not help you that it's their job and it's what their duty is yeah there's like their sworn oath yeah is to help you and use their knowledge to protect you and help you and whatever and this person is doing exactly the opposite being terrible at it and then getting a raise for it that's just like being praised by like the higher up that you would go to to point out the problem because because he's done a favor for that higher up.

[1471] Right.

[1472] Well, yeah.

[1473] Allegedly.

[1474] Allegedly.

[1475] Allegedly.

[1476] Who knows?

[1477] Okay.

[1478] I know.

[1479] Okay.

[1480] All right.

[1481] Vote Ross Perra.

[1482] All right.

[1483] Okay.

[1484] This has been fun.

[1485] Let's leave Malick behind.

[1486] Okay.

[1487] He sucks.

[1488] We hate him.

[1489] But let's dive into a different fucking well.

[1490] What is it a well?

[1491] Sinkhole.

[1492] Let's go to another.

[1493] Let's dive into a different well like the girl from the ring.

[1494] Yes.

[1495] And come out with a long, black, wet hair.

[1496] and a wet night count.

[1497] You will.

[1498] And it says, I'm fucking married.

[1499] Fuck you, I'm married.

[1500] All right.

[1501] Here we go.

[1502] Okay.

[1503] Clear ahead.

[1504] This is a new part.

[1505] Okay.

[1506] So there's a police report filed seven months after the deaths of Don and Kevin.

[1507] That right reads, quote, confidential informant states that she has been told that the area the two boys died in is a drop zone for dope.

[1508] All right.

[1509] Okay.

[1510] Here we go.

[1511] Mm -hmm.

[1512] So.

[1513] In the years that surrounded the death of the boys, residents near the tiny town of the tiny Mina Municipal Airport in western Arkansas.

[1514] It's about two hours from Bryant where the boys lived.

[1515] Mina, M -E -N -A.

[1516] The residents had complained about low -flying aircraft late at night.

[1517] Okay.

[1518] Here we go.

[1519] It turns out that Mina was a drug running hub in the 80s and early 90s and was where.

[1520] and this is like this isn't conspiracy this is this is like no yeah like you know every yes that uh like solid testimony that this is a thing that this dude named barry seal who was a cocaine smuggling kingpin operated out of the mina airport okay which is like this tiny it's not even it makes it makes perfect sense though yes because you're not going to be bringing it into you know yeah he's got these little he's got a little cessna i don't know is that thing sure and yeah it's like a little small place you drop the drugs you fucking go back over to tiny town you pay off people who see stuff and don't like it's paid off pay everybody yeah okay exactly so real quick this about berry seal which like a separate deep fucking dive into this dude he's amazing amazingly awful fascinating okay so at the point of the boy's death he had already been assassinated by columbians um so he's not involved in the murder it was his setup though yeah Right.

[1521] So initially, he was hired by the DEA to fly his small plane over the low over the central American countries taking photos of rebels.

[1522] So the DEA was like, take photos, prove that like this drug smuggling cartel shit's going on.

[1523] But then he became a double agent and began working with a Medellin cartel and smuggling drugs.

[1524] So he would go take the photos for the DEA, fucking load his car up with fucking drugs later days back over.

[1525] The perfect setup.

[1526] Perfect setup.

[1527] I think he eventually became a triple agent and like fucking ratted on the cartel.

[1528] Sure he did.

[1529] This guy had no, you know.

[1530] No honor.

[1531] None.

[1532] But what a perfect hiding place is right like in the DEA's pocket.

[1533] Exactly.

[1534] It's almost like out of sight.

[1535] What was that movie?

[1536] No. Out of sight with Jennifer Lopez and George Clooney?

[1537] No. Let's talk about it.

[1538] What's the one with, um.

[1539] Blow with Johnny Debt?

[1540] No, yes, but it's similar.

[1541] What's the, uh, what's the one from, um, Oh, Jesus.

[1542] Ben Affleck and...

[1543] What's the other one?

[1544] Oh.

[1545] Forget it.

[1546] Edit that out.

[1547] It's terrible.

[1548] But the guessing's fun.

[1549] Is this fun for anyone?

[1550] Just me?

[1551] What's Casey Affleck's like original partner's name?

[1552] I have to go from the very beginning.

[1553] Partner.

[1554] Ben Affleck's original partner's name.

[1555] Matt Damon.

[1556] Right.

[1557] Oh, you mean that this Scorsese movie where it's the drug, the drug, the DEA agent?

[1558] Leonardo DiCaprio?

[1559] Oh, it's not Matt Damon.

[1560] Yes.

[1561] No, Matt Damon's in it too.

[1562] Okay.

[1563] And so is Marky Mark Wahlberg.

[1564] What is it?

[1565] What is it?

[1566] Not the departed.

[1567] Oh, that's the departed.

[1568] It is the departed.

[1569] I'm thinking of something else.

[1570] I was going to say the uninhibited.

[1571] I'm not joking.

[1572] Some of the best content we've created so are.

[1573] Edit part of that out.

[1574] No, leave it all in.

[1575] It's so glorious.

[1576] I edit Casey Affleck.

[1577] Okay.

[1578] Leave that in.

[1579] Okay.

[1580] Please go rent the.

[1581] uninhibited at a red red box near you wear your pajamas you wear your pajamas the uninhibited is the porn version of the departed catch me if you can that's what you were trying to think of okay yes my back hurts from laughing did you think Leonardo Caprio was Matt Damon or you were just trying to get there I wouldn't be surprised if I confused the two but I think I was trying to go Matt Damon got it okay that was all Awesome.

[1582] For extra cash.

[1583] Okay.

[1584] But of course, the high ups in the government, like, and it was like the FBI, the CIA, all the DEA, they all knew about Barry Seal being this, you know, undercover agent.

[1585] And they also knew secretly that he was a double agent bringing drugs back, but they looked the other way for personal gain.

[1586] And they were like, well, he's doing us some favors.

[1587] It's like the Iran contra fucking times.

[1588] Like they needed him.

[1589] Dirty times.

[1590] Everyone could do whatever the fuck they wanted.

[1591] And actually, there's a movie starring, and I wrote this down, so I won't forget, starring Tom Cruise that came out like a year or two ago.

[1592] Risky business.

[1593] Yes.

[1594] That's secretly about, no, it's called American Made, and it's about Barry Seals.

[1595] Oh, okay.

[1596] Did you see that?

[1597] No, but I'm...

[1598] He's flying in planes.

[1599] There's a cute blonde wife.

[1600] I didn't see that one, but there was also a movie that I feel like is a similar plot that had Matthew, uh, McConaughey and he was the pilot but oh sorry that was about gold not drugs there's one that was made in 91 that was like one of the old timers what like but this is you know before one of the old timers like a Barrymore John Barrymore starring John Barrymore Lionel Barrymore and his brother John okay so the drugs are brought in from South America to crazy these like hangers at these like small municipal airports and that one of them was the tiny Mina municipal airport, but local authorities who, like, weren't in on the tape or still, like, noticing it.

[1601] So they put up, like, lights and kind of, like, made it so that it wasn't as easy for them.

[1602] So instead of landing at the airport, um, they started dropping small parcels of drugs across the state and surrounding states from planes.

[1603] Like, they fucking made their Cessna's have fucking doors and shit.

[1604] Okay.

[1605] So one of these drop sites was supposedly in a clearing near the tracks where the boys were found.

[1606] Mm -hmm.

[1607] Mm -hmm.

[1608] Mm -hmm.

[1609] Mm -hmm.

[1610] So I remember the boys went out like fucking hunting and shit, spotlighting.

[1611] Do you mind if I say one theory that I have?

[1612] Absolutely fucking Tivoli.

[1613] Just based on the information you've told me so far, they were out in those woods to do their stun hunting or whatever it's called, and there was cops out in those woods trying to find people at the drop -off, and they killed those boys accidentally and then tried to set it up themselves.

[1614] Incorrect.

[1615] Dang it.

[1616] Well, I just want to throw it up.

[1617] Incorrect.

[1618] It gets worse.

[1619] Oh, dude.

[1620] Than that.

[1621] Okay.

[1622] So in the years.

[1623] following the murder of Don and Kevin, a few different eyewitnesses start to come forward slowly, like in the early 90s.

[1624] And when combined, those, their stories tell the story of what happened that night.

[1625] Okay.

[1626] The first person that came forward was a kid named Tommy Nyhouse.

[1627] At the time of the murders, he's around 12 years old, but he's about 19 when he comes forward finally, or some 18, I don't know.

[1628] He says that the night of the murderers, he was with some friends in the woods by the tracks and they spotted from the woods in like some bushes they're hiding and they spot a group of men, a couple men on the tracks.

[1629] And they're hiding in the bushes and they witness two boys, Kevin and Don, approaching the men along the tracks, carrying their rifles, just doing going along, doing their fucking thing.

[1630] And when Kevin and Don saw the group of men on the tracks further ahead of them, the boys hesitate and then start to turn to go around the other way, but they're called by one of the men to come towards them.

[1631] And when Kevin and Don hesitated, according to Tommy a shot is fired and they don't know if it's from Don's gun or like you know a warning shot something whatever happens Kevin and Don take the fuck off.

[1632] Yeah.

[1633] Tommy, this kid recognizes one of the men on the tracks because his mom is dating him so he's like 100 % sure it's him.

[1634] The man is Prosecutor Dan Harmon What?

[1635] Goes back.

[1636] of the dude who was in charge of the grand fucking jury name who had the same name who had the same name.

[1637] Uh huh saying put me on this case I'm going to fucking exhum the bodies and and depose these fucking people.

[1638] What?

[1639] It's Sam fucking Harmon.

[1640] Mm -hmm.

[1641] After coming forward, Tommy passes polygraph tests.

[1642] He's put into protective custody.

[1643] He gives video statements of what he witnessed the night of Kevin and Don's murders, meaning he's a fucking reliable witness.

[1644] Yeah.

[1645] The boys, so then the story goes on that the boys, based on witness testimony, And he ran into their friend named Keith Coney, who gave him a lift on his motorcycle to the local grocery store to a payphone located there.

[1646] So the next part of the story that was observed, that had a witness was observed by a man named Ronnie Goodwin, who told state police that he was driving by when he saw two boys in the parking lot of the grocery store.

[1647] And then two officers showed up and they're unmarked, but recognizable that it was a cop car because of the fucking antennas and shit.

[1648] they show up in their cruiser to the boys.

[1649] Ronnie drives past, pulls into another lot, and witnesses the officers beating the two boys, including one of the officers hitting one of the boys with the butt end of a rifle and then throwing them into the back of the cruiser and heading towards a dirt road that leads to the tracks.

[1650] And this is probably before the grand jury testimony is like the hat happened is available.

[1651] So getting hit in the face with a butt of a fucking rifle isn't something that was like probably well known.

[1652] Right.

[1653] And it's incredibly specific, and at least, as you said, that very specific, like, wound and marks.

[1654] Exactly.

[1655] Which I'm sure old Ronnie Goodwin, like, who knows, he could have been the principal of the high school.

[1656] He could have been the guy that hangs out in the grocery store parking lot.

[1657] But all of a sudden, that's somebody that has a true fact that, like, can be corroborated.

[1658] Exactly.

[1659] Which must be bone -chilling to whoever the 90s cop is that's starting to, like, listen to these stories.

[1660] Dan Harmon.

[1661] Oh, you mean the good one, not the bad one.

[1662] Whoever, right?

[1663] Whoever's there who is ever the detective going, yeah, I'll take your statement on this old murder.

[1664] Well, let me tell you about them.

[1665] Okay, sorry.

[1666] They're all in there.

[1667] It's just so crazy.

[1668] Okay.

[1669] So eventually, and you'll read about it in The Boys on the Tracks, there's three witnesses that eventually come forward to corroborate the grocery store story.

[1670] Two of them, two of those witnesses are murdered when they were called to testify about this in the new grand jury hearing.

[1671] There's a new grand jury hearing eventually that comes together, and two of these guys are murdered.

[1672] What?

[1673] Uh -huh.

[1674] I'll tell you about it in a minute.

[1675] The next witness to come forward is a woman named, okay, this fucking woman, I mean, love her forever.

[1676] Her name's Charlene Wilson, and she's basically like the night, like what you would have done in the 80s, which is look, if you looked fucking hot and you're like, I'm going to date everyone and do drugs and have the most fun on my life.

[1677] Oh, yes.

[1678] And she's this fucking gal.

[1679] And she's just having a blast.

[1680] She's doing whatever.

[1681] She's fucking around.

[1682] Charlene Wilson had kind of had a come to Jesus moment.

[1683] And she gave secret testimony to the federal investigation, including a videotape confession as well as a four -page confession letter signed in front of three local officials in May 93.

[1684] So once the stuff was over, she had this like, I'm not going to do this shit anymore.

[1685] Sure.

[1686] And so in 93, she comes forward with her story.

[1687] So at the time of the Boys on the Tracks murderers, Charlene was dated.

[1688] Dan Harmon.

[1689] And she claimed that she had been on the tracks that night with Harmon and a guy named Keith McCaskill, who's a meth dealer and known police informant, and a couple other people, including two fucking local cops for a drug drop.

[1690] So you saying that the cops accidentally shot them?

[1691] No, the cops were fucking in on it.

[1692] The cops were there to fucking be muscle for Dan Harmon and this drug drop.

[1693] What?

[1694] Because And they were there because she told them in the summer of 1987.

[1695] So, like, right before this happened, that summer, one of the drugs drops disappeared.

[1696] So they think that fucking local kids grabbed the drugs and fucking ran.

[1697] Hell yes, they did.

[1698] It's a bag of Coke.

[1699] I mean, yeah.

[1700] It's a big duffel bag filled with blocks of Coke.

[1701] It's a million dollars of Coke.

[1702] It's so many parties in the parking lot at the grocery store.

[1703] So Dan Harmon, who's like on the, who's like the fucking kingpin of this is, fucking pissed off, so he brings out some of his men to watch the delivery on the night that Kevin and fucking Don are walking by.

[1704] Oh, fuck.

[1705] And they were expecting a delivery of three to four pounds of cocaine and five pounds of weed, and Charlene was supposed to make the pickup that night, but she had been, quote, highballing, which is a mixture of cocaine and crystal meth.

[1706] Girl.

[1707] Was totally, quote, strung out.

[1708] Yeah, you were.

[1709] That's such a crazy combination.

[1710] That's like when you get a red eye and you put a shot of espresso into, coffee where it's just like don't pick a lane you don't and she there's an so there's this really great not great it's this great it tells you a lot of documentary called um obstruction of justice the mean a connection which is on YouTube and you and she's interviewed in it and this fucking she's like she's not in heavy metal parking lot because she's fucking backstage with the band like she's the best and she probably got clean she probably got sober and then her and she was just like kept telling her sponsor like me. Sorry, go ahead.

[1711] No, you, you're on the right track, except that's the sliding glass door, the sliding door theory.

[1712] Oh, okay.

[1713] You're right.

[1714] Um, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1715] So she's supposed to make the pickup, but right.

[1716] They told her to wait in the car while they go to the drug, like to pick it up.

[1717] And she did until she saw the little kid Tommy, remember him?

[1718] Yes.

[1719] Running from the gunshot thing, whatever.

[1720] It's a little cloudy.

[1721] Okay.

[1722] She gets out of the car.

[1723] She goes over to the men who had intercepted a group of boys at the drop site, which is fucking Tommy and Don and maybe their friend Keith, right, who was on the motorcycle and who maybe got away.

[1724] So according to Charlene, some of them had managed to get away, maybe Keith, but Kevin and Don were captured.

[1725] And when she got there, Dan Harmon's men interrogated them as they were lying on the ground, face down, hands tied behind their back.

[1726] And they were kicked and beaten and finally executed.

[1727] Fuck.

[1728] Mm -hmm.

[1729] So Charlene's like, this.

[1730] is the story.

[1731] She knows it for a fact.

[1732] Yeah.

[1733] Shit.

[1734] There's more, like, just fucking read it.

[1735] So, the group of men led by Dan Harmon, then loaded the rest of the drug drop into the car.

[1736] They wrapped Kevin and Don up in a tarp from Wilson's car and put them in the trunk of the car.

[1737] And then they moved, quote, they moved up the track a little ways and removed the boys and laid them across the tracks.

[1738] And according to Charlene, she says at that point, she freaked out and started running away from the scene.

[1739] She's like, I'm on math and Coke, and you just fucking killed a bunch of people, like killed two teenage boys.

[1740] Can you imagine?

[1741] Also, but just, I understand that's just drug use and she, it probably was like by that point that was just like standard fare for her.

[1742] But if you have to go do something as stressful is like a drug drop.

[1743] Yeah.

[1744] How are you on white drugs anyway?

[1745] And then like, of course something horrible happens.

[1746] I mean, it's the answer to a lot of things where it was the 80s.

[1747] Yes, that's right.

[1748] The 80s.

[1749] We didn't know meth was bad for us.

[1750] back then.

[1751] Totally that.

[1752] We thought it was given to us as a diet pill.

[1753] It was a fun bump just to get you past that midnight era.

[1754] You know.

[1755] We've all been there.

[1756] Oh, this is besides, this is just me talking shit out of school, but she was, this chick Charlene was also the ex of a man who had been convicted, was a convicted drug felon.

[1757] His name was Roger Clinton.

[1758] Uh -oh.

[1759] He was the half -brother of Bill Clinton.

[1760] Oh, shit.

[1761] just as just an aside no we heard a lot about roger clinton in the clinton era where he was he was troublemaker yeah they were like don't bring him up yeah where does this go to the all the fucking way of the chip okay so blah blah blah blah okay this is crazy i know harman dan harmon so then dan harmon there's this new grand jury that like does convenes to uh fucking figure it out dan harmon uses that grand jury to find out what he could about who had informed on him.

[1762] So he's in charge of the grand jury and he's calling all these people and getting all these fucking secret documents to find out about what they knew about him, which is not, can't see, can't be legal.

[1763] It seems unfair.

[1764] And to make it appear, yeah, and make it appear like they were suspects.

[1765] And the purpose was to discredit those witnesses so that if he ever got arrested and charged with drug charges, he could say that it was retaliation for this grand jury trial.

[1766] So he called everyone he'd ever been in fucking bed with to be like, no, no, they're just retaliating against me now when he has this drug trial.

[1767] Sure.

[1768] That's in Mara Leverett's book, The Boys on the Tracks.

[1769] Okay, so we're getting there.

[1770] Rome's done.

[1771] So Keith McCaskill, who was one of the guys on the tracks that night, who was like the informant and the meth dealer, before the grand jury they called him to speak at the grand jury he gets stabbed to death in his driveway before he can fucking testify Keith Coney the boy on the fucking motorcycle he dies in a mysterious motorcycle crash crashed just a few months after Don and Kevin had died and he had refused to tell authorities what he knew and saw and he would only tell his father that quote it was the cops who killed Kevin and Dawn.

[1772] So he is on his motorcycle.

[1773] The motorcycle crashes.

[1774] It looks like he's being chased.

[1775] He maybe had his throat slit before he crashed, but there was no autopsy, uh, what's it called, you know, requested.

[1776] So we don't know.

[1777] What?

[1778] Yeah.

[1779] But the grand jury did rule conclusively this time, not probable homicide, but definite homicide, uh, about Kevin and Dawn's murder.

[1780] Eventually Dan Harmon finds out about our fucking girlfriend's testimony.

[1781] And so in 1992, Dan Harmon sets her up and personally busts her for a small amount of drugs plus weapons charges.

[1782] He fucking set her up.

[1783] Yeah.

[1784] He arrests her personally, hands her the fucking, like, cuffs her arrest her, even though he'd been dating her and like having her as her his drug meal.

[1785] Wow.

[1786] He prosecutes the case against her.

[1787] This seems unfair.

[1788] Uh -huh.

[1789] It's her first drug offense, which usually is fucking probation.

[1790] Right.

[1791] He often.

[1792] He often.

[1793] offers her a plea bargain of 116 years.

[1794] She says, go fuck yourself.

[1795] She gets sentenced to 31 years in jail.

[1796] I can't tell for sure, but I think she's still fucking there.

[1797] No. Yeah.

[1798] It's been 31 years.

[1799] It's been like 32 years instead.

[1800] It's been 30 years.

[1801] I don't know where she is.

[1802] It's hard to find her, which I would do the same thing if I were her.

[1803] I would be very hard to find.

[1804] Yes, for real.

[1805] So when anyone of authority tried to look into the case, including this woman, this is another fucking heroin named Gene Duffy.

[1806] She gets appointed federal narcotics investigator in town.

[1807] She's newly appointed in the 90s.

[1808] She starts to, she's told like, hey, her like hiring command is like, don't look.

[1809] Hey, just have, like, welcome to the office.

[1810] Like, good luck with everything.

[1811] Here's a fucking cactus or whatever.

[1812] By the way, don't look into any drug charges against, uh, anyone in our, like, circle, like anyone in, um, you know.

[1813] Our jurisdiction.

[1814] Yeah.

[1815] Yeah.

[1816] Just don't look at.

[1817] looking to just don't do that okay goodbye enjoy your fucking ficus which then anybody yeah normal would be like I'm just kind of guess I'm gonna just look through a couple of these files real quick she's interviewed in this fucking uh documentary and she's just like the loveliest 90s haired woman you've ever seen sure so uh she uh she's newly appointed in the 90s she starts to uncover the cover up of the boy's death Dan Harmon fucking loses this shit and starts to go on the attack, and when she realizes he's part of it, he leads a smear campaign against this lovely fucking woman with 90s hair, accusing her of everything from embezzling funds to child abuse.

[1818] And the paper, the newspapers and the fucking journalists are like in on it and like anything Dan Harmon says about her, they'll fucking print.

[1819] Yeah.

[1820] So then he tries to subpoena her to find out everything she had on him, including secret informants.

[1821] And she's like, you can't do that, she starts to fear for her fucking life because she refused to turn shit over, which meant she would have gone to prison.

[1822] And she got like a secret informant was like, hey, they're going to kill you in prison.

[1823] That's their fucking plan.

[1824] Yeah.

[1825] So she goes into fucking hiding.

[1826] Eventually, after a long shit, she becomes a teacher in Texas, which is like, yeah, dude, don't, don't.

[1827] And that 90s hair is like, now it's some weirdly 50s hair.

[1828] I bet it's the exact same.

[1829] But fucking Gene Duffy, that poor woman would have like a great career as like a fucking honorable person instead.

[1830] I mean, that's talk about like, there's a podcast I want to listen to.

[1831] Yeah.

[1832] Is all the people that went in to like those kind of positions with noble intentions and got caught up and shit like this?

[1833] A hundred percent.

[1834] And like people quit when she, because she got fired from her job because she couldn't do her job correctly because Dan Harmon was waging this war against her.

[1835] So like five of her informants like, you know, not informants, but they were like cops who were like on her side.

[1836] Yeah.

[1837] They fucking quit.

[1838] So those dudes like would have had these incredible jobs.

[1839] are in ladies.

[1840] All right.

[1841] So, almost, I swear.

[1842] In 1996, Dan Harmon finally gets fucking caught for his shit.

[1843] He's convicted of racketeering, conspiracy, extortion, and drug possession with intent to distribute.

[1844] He gets 10 years.

[1845] He's released in nine years.

[1846] Then he got arrested and drug charges again in 2010.

[1847] I can't tell.

[1848] I think he's still in prison.

[1849] But like everything turns out, he was completely a fucking drug kingpin this whole time.

[1850] Wow.

[1851] Later in the 2000s and on one of the police officers who was alleged to have been on the tracks that night and beaten and taken to the boys to the tracks, this guy named Jay Campbell who had gotten higher and higher and up, he and his wife were arrested on many drug charges and sentenced to decades long terms in jail.

[1852] So, like, they're all fucking in on this.

[1853] Yeah.

[1854] The families of Kevin and Don are still not receiving cooperation from the sailing county sheriff, who happens to be a guy named Rodney Wright.

[1855] Who is he?

[1856] He's fucking Dan Harmon's nephew.

[1857] you.

[1858] No. As recently as 2016, Linda Ives, who is not fucking given up the fight, has filed suit against multiple government agencies for refusing to answer her freedom of information or act requests and for withholding info in regards to the death.

[1859] So she's still fucking on this shit.

[1860] The government's responded to her suit by asking the court to dismiss the suit because it's an ongoing investigation.

[1861] And the case is still open to this day.

[1862] She says it's not a political issue with her.

[1863] because they were never a political family but until the Arkansas political machine reached into their lives and destroyed the tranquility that they had as a family.

[1864] Yes.

[1865] And that's the fucking boys on the tracks.

[1866] The fucking tip of the iceberg.

[1867] Fuck.

[1868] I mean, dude.

[1869] But because I have to say, when I saw that on, I'm sure it was Unsolved Mysteries.

[1870] Where all that stuff, where it's just like the weirdest it's clearly a setup of trying to make it seem like boys committed suicide right when they were dead and it only worked because everyone was in the pocket of everyone else yeah and like when you look at that as a person who reads a lot of true crime or whatever you're like well one of the options is there's a really bizarre serial killer that likes to kill people and then confuse people which is like you've never heard of that like it doesn't line up with any of that it completely lines up with cover up with, you know, like some people are like, I don't like conspiracy theories, but it's like this is the only fucking thing.

[1871] This like makes more sense than the boys anything.

[1872] This is the thing that oh, like every little puzzle piece goes in space.

[1873] It's not a fucking conspiracy theory.

[1874] There's proof that all of these people, you know, they all went to prison later.

[1875] They all were in each other's pockets.

[1876] Malik got fucking like fired and promoted to something else when Bill Clinton became president.

[1877] Like everyone and he did fucking, uh, get Bill Clinton's mother out of, you know, all this legal bullshit.

[1878] And, like, Dan Harmon did fucking, like, is proven that he was, like, the judge wasn't on the take.

[1879] The fucking, it's not a conspiracy.

[1880] Well, I mean, it's, it's actually a true conspiracy theory.

[1881] Right.

[1882] It's like the there are, and that's the thing we're starting to learn these days more and more is a lot of conspiracy theorists were right.

[1883] And just because they were freaked out by it or like, you know, weirdos, like, shit like the wormwood like on Netflix it's like yeah they it's actually a known fact that they the CIA gave LSD to people who didn't know about it to see how they would react that's not me being like a fucking weirdo conspiracist right that's that's the truth it's simply the truth yeah well and a lot of people who are like I don't like conspiracy theories or the kind of people are like I don't know I also don't like the truth right I just want something that's not going to rock the boat or like freak me out but they can they confuse like aliens with the government doing something nefarious.

[1884] Also small town, like we're talking about small town Arkansas.

[1885] Yeah.

[1886] So this is, you know, families, relatives, everybody who knows people.

[1887] It's all, that's all those relationships are.

[1888] That's how a lot of those towns operate.

[1889] It's like, I'm the sheriff now.

[1890] You're going to be the sheriff when I die.

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] Every, we're going to keep all the secrets exactly where we have them and nobody mess around.

[1893] And like, I mean, honestly, what a great way to, like, conceal a murder.

[1894] Yes.

[1895] So, you know the train's coming at four fucking 30 and still in the dark how do we hide this god you know dan harmon was high as he was probably on what is it called the speedball too oh yeah they take it a little too far and they kill the boys what's a great way to fucking hide this it's not it's not like it would have worked if the fucking train conductor had never seen the boys that's right that's what they thought was going to happen or if the medical examiner had been legit and was like you know know this blood is old, there are these wounds.

[1896] Like, if the parents had been people who believed in the government or hadn't, you know, raised a fuss, and how many did get away with it, you know what I mean?

[1897] Like, how many out there that they're, like Linda Ivers wasn't there to fucking scream about it?

[1898] That's right.

[1899] And call vomit on everything.

[1900] That's right.

[1901] Yeah, no, that's amazing.

[1902] And it's horrifying, obviously.

[1903] Yeah.

[1904] Crazy.

[1905] I think that's one of my favorite ones that I've done.

[1906] That's amazing.

[1907] Well, also because it's very satisfying.

[1908] Yeah.

[1909] The second you started talking about, like, the low, low plane drops of drugs.

[1910] Like, all right, now we're in a whole different thing.

[1911] This is not small town America.

[1912] I want to give, um, there's an unexplained dash mysteries .com website and there's a dude name.

[1913] How do, how would you say, or I'm sorry, a person.

[1914] It might be a lady.

[1915] Let's see.

[1916] It's a French word.

[1917] Lummiac.

[1918] Lemieux.

[1919] Lemieux.

[1920] Mm -hmm.

[1921] Who like broke it the fuck down in a way that was like, he did or he or she did a thing that was like, based on all these people's testimonies, here's what happened and like told the story in a perfect way.

[1922] And I love that.

[1923] It was great because I can't even tell you how much, like how many fucking sites I've been doing for this.

[1924] It's really fun.

[1925] Like it's a fun rabbit hole.

[1926] Yeah.

[1927] That's great.

[1928] Yeah.

[1929] Really fascinating.

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] And of course, the Boys in the Tracks by Mara Leverett.

[1932] Let's all read it.

[1933] It's our new book.

[1934] Yeah, that sounds good.

[1935] Oh my God.

[1936] Fired up now.

[1937] Also, then it makes me think of like, I wonder if all those, you know, there's that, there's an area.

[1938] I think it, well, I'm sure every state has one.

[1939] But, like, there's that triangle in Massachusetts where it's, like, crazy shit happens and don't go there.

[1940] It's haunted and all that stuff.

[1941] And it's like, that could be a drug drop.

[1942] Like, I wonder how many things like that are, like, urban areas of, like, the Blair Witch lives here.

[1943] And then all the kids are like, go there, but then don't go any closer because people get killed or whatever.

[1944] And it's just like, don't go here because, yeah.

[1945] We're just shipping cocaine into this little cabin.

[1946] It makes me think that what's that place where all the.

[1947] Columbia?

[1948] where all the cocaine comes from?

[1949] No, I know that one really well.

[1950] What's the one where like the go and molest children?

[1951] The federal credit union.

[1952] Oh, in Lincoln, Nebraska?

[1953] Yeah, what's that place called?

[1954] The federal credit union?

[1955] It's the name of the credit union, right?

[1956] No, no, no, but yeah, it's the...

[1957] Bohemian Grove.

[1958] Bohemian grows in California.

[1959] Is that where they go?

[1960] There's a great last podcast in the left about that whole story.

[1961] What's the federal credit union?

[1962] they talk about.

[1963] No, that's the one that's Johnny Gosh.

[1964] Ugh.

[1965] It's Johnny Gosh.

[1966] But then the Bohemian Grove is basically insanely rich leaders and it's right by where I grew up.

[1967] Jesus.

[1968] Yeah.

[1969] I know people that have like worked there as cater waiters and stuff.

[1970] But they do all this weird shit and it's very secretive.

[1971] Can they have a cater waiter waterinos and tell us what really fucking happens there on Facebook?

[1972] I will join that tab group immediately.

[1973] Bohemian roverinos.

[1974] I mean, there's people that say The only reason there's people talk about it so much It's just because it's all these rich politicians And millionaires and all the stuff And then there's the other people who are like Oh no, they have full on pagan rituals And they kill children or whatever it is And who knows what the truth of it is I love it.

[1975] It's just also fascinating It goes all the way to top And we're never going to Arkansas Sorry Arkansas I know I'm not allowed I'm like not allowed there anymore Because of the story I feel like of how many people you called a fucking idiot in this story.

[1976] I just implicated everyone in this.

[1977] And also Dan Harmon's going to get a text at 2 a .m. I heard that the girls on my favorite murder talking shit on you, Dan.

[1978] Like Dan Harmon, Harman, Harmantown?

[1979] Oh, no. Leave Dan Harmontown alone.

[1980] I went to his wedding.

[1981] He's a lovely man. We love Dan Harmontown.

[1982] That's it.

[1983] What do you want to blend right into your hooray?

[1984] I just have a quick one because this was so fucking long.

[1985] And speaking, and it actually blends into the, the, mansions of the Gilded Age Instagram.

[1986] I actually even tagged me in a thing called an Instagram called Cheap Old Houses that I just am obsessed with on Instagram and it's just someone who posts houses that are under 100 grand, but they're like 7 grand to like 100 grand that like old Victorians that you have to go live in like wherever the fuck, bum fuck maybe fucking Arkansas.

[1987] Yeah.

[1988] But they're at least and they show you through the house.

[1989] so it's, and they're empty, but it looks a little bit like abandoned porn, which I love, but also a little bit like, I would change the wallpaper in here.

[1990] It's just like, it's a deep dive.

[1991] Check it out.

[1992] That's crazy.

[1993] Cheap old houses.

[1994] You could also along the same lines watch the movie, The Money Pit, starring Tom Hanks.

[1995] It's exactly that.

[1996] And Goldie Hawn?

[1997] And no, no, it was, it's Diane from Cheers.

[1998] You're right.

[1999] My friend Jennifer Geary and I watched that movie a hundred times.

[2000] So good.

[2001] Loved it so much.

[2002] Loved it.

[2003] well mine this week is uh i just got super crazy my friend dave mesmer god bless you dave he's been my friend forever we were college roommates um he told me to watch shits creek like a year ago and i think it's because of the title i was like i'm not into that broad stuff or whatever i started watching it yesterday i watched it for two full days straight i love it it is my fucking favorite there's three seasons of it on netflix it's so brilliant and it is um it was created by Eugene Levy and his son Daniel.

[2004] His real name is Daniel Levy, but on the show his character's name is David, and his sister's constantly going, Ew, David!

[2005] And it's my favorite.

[2006] And it's Eugene Levy and what's her face?

[2007] And Catherine O 'Harets and he's the mother.

[2008] I would watch anything they're in.

[2009] It is so good.

[2010] It is so well written.

[2011] And it starts out like, you know, the rich people that fall and then they have to live like poor people, which we've seen it before.

[2012] So I, in my judgy, judgy TV writer way, I'm like, I'm not, I don't have time for it.

[2013] It's so hard joke, funny.

[2014] The characters are so good, crazy.

[2015] Catherine O 'Hara's accents alone, I could watch it.

[2016] Like, I'm already planning on rewatching all of it.

[2017] Well, I told you, I was looking through this, because you had told me that earlier, and there's a Schitt's Creek arena.

[2018] Wait, where is it?

[2019] Oh, shiterinos.

[2020] S -H -I -T -E -R -N -O -S.

[2021] There's a Shitterino's fucking Facebook group.

[2022] I love it.

[2023] So you're going to join that.

[2024] There's Mimi.

[2025] I'm in it already.

[2026] You're going to tell us it's over.

[2027] You guys, thanks for listening to this long episode.

[2028] That was...

[2029] How long, Stephen?

[2030] This isn't even the longest episode.

[2031] I feel like, because it was so much fun, it doesn't feel that long.

[2032] Yeah, that's right.

[2033] This was great.

[2034] It was only three hours and ten minutes.

[2035] Yeah.

[2036] Thanks you guys for listening.

[2037] Thank you so much for listening.

[2038] Love you for being here with us.

[2039] We have the best time.

[2040] Yep.

[2041] What a joy.

[2042] What a joyous occasion.

[2043] Stay sexy.

[2044] And don't get murdered.

[2045] am I?

[2046] Oh, here he is.

[2047] The star of St. He's green.

[2048] Elvis?

[2049] Want cookie?

[2050] Nah.

[2051] Good boy.