358 - A Socially Awkward Person's Great Idea

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Did you hear that?

[2] Yeah.

[3] Welcome to my favorite murderer.

[4] That's Georgia Hard Stark.

[5] Hi, that's Karen Gilgareff.

[6] Hi.

[7] Hi.

[8] Hi.

[9] Welcome to our show.

[10] Welcome to the Winter Wonderland.

[11] That's right.

[12] We were just complaining about how cold it is outside here in California at a balmy 64.

[13] Ugh.

[14] It's gross.

[15] It might even be lower than that.

[16] Can you imagine Wisconsin if it was lower than that?

[17] They can't even fathom.

[18] 55.

[19] No, that's too cold.

[20] That's too cold.

[21] That's like legit cold.

[22] That counts.

[23] Yeah.

[24] That counts as us being allowed to complain.

[25] And also the low is 40.

[26] It's 55 now, but it's going to get colder.

[27] Oh my God.

[28] We're basically on the East Coast now.

[29] We're basically in Antarctica.

[30] That's right.

[31] We're part of Antarctica now.

[32] you're in Los Angeles.

[33] I mean, I get it when people think this is dumb complaining, but for us, like, L .A. 55 is a Wisconsin minus 22.

[34] Yeah, about how people react to it and, like, how we feel about it.

[35] And the shock and the pain.

[36] Yeah.

[37] And then not wanting to leave the house for anything.

[38] Mm -mm.

[39] I ordered in some soup.

[40] That's the laziest thing you can do.

[41] No, that's cute.

[42] There's got to be a can up in the cupboard.

[43] What kind of soup?

[44] Tortoise soup.

[45] Yes.

[46] Oh, that's the best soup.

[47] Because tortilla soup, if you get enough cheese in there, is also a little bit like dip.

[48] That's right.

[49] And if you put enough tortilla chips in there, it is.

[50] It's kind of like nachos.

[51] Yeah.

[52] I had nachos for dinner last night, like a child.

[53] Yes.

[54] It was so good.

[55] I mean, look, these days especially, I think, in these trying times, If you need to comfort yourself with food, do what's best for you first.

[56] Do it.

[57] I'm going to take that and run with it because I like it.

[58] Okay, good.

[59] I've been running with it for about 30 years.

[60] It's a decision I made long ago.

[61] What's been going on?

[62] We saw Stephen the other night, and Stephen, you were wearing one of those classic 80s sweaters that had a bunch of sheep, and then one of the sheep was black, and I owned that sweater real time when they were first popular in 1985.

[63] Wait, really?

[64] Yes.

[65] Oh, my gosh.

[66] That was like, you kind of had to get that sweater when I was like a sophomore.

[67] Yeah.

[68] When it came out, it was groundbreaking fashion.

[69] That was Minor Threats shirt, right?

[70] Was it?

[71] Yeah.

[72] Oh, really?

[73] That was their logo.

[74] We were like, it's the cool sweater at Mervyn's.

[75] There was definitely no musical, cool music association with it at all.

[76] In fact, I just had a flash memory of one of my sister's friends had one of those sweaters.

[77] It was actually a sweater.

[78] And then under it, she wore a little Peter Pan collar and a very thin black ribbon bow tie.

[79] Oh, my God.

[80] Adorable.

[81] Yeah.

[82] That's very cute.

[83] That's very cool.

[84] It was quite a time.

[85] Yeah, we had our exactly right office holiday party the other night.

[86] The staff party.

[87] Staff party, which was so lovely.

[88] Tell everyone how many freaking employees we have, Karen.

[89] I think it's 32 now.

[90] That's crazy.

[91] It's really crazy.

[92] That's like a big company.

[93] It's, yes.

[94] If you're not comparing it to other companies, it is.

[95] If you're comparing it to just us, the three of us as the OG.

[96] Yeah, I am.

[97] Exactly right, me, you and Stephen.

[98] And you are.

[99] I am.

[100] But I think 32, the reason I'm not sure is because all of it happened in quarantine.

[101] That's right.

[102] So this is like every once in one.

[103] while we try to break out and have a staff party or have a staff and host party or like get people together of like, hey, hi, we're all on the same team.

[104] Yeah.

[105] We should be able to recognize each other in the grocery store.

[106] Yes.

[107] It was at this great location in Burbank that I don't think enough people know about.

[108] No, castaway.

[109] The castaway up on the hill.

[110] And then people are like, what's this few?

[111] This is amazing.

[112] And yeah.

[113] Yeah, we lucked out on that one.

[114] We did.

[115] We had past apps, which you know is my fucking favorite thing in the whole world.

[116] The greatest and really good ones.

[117] And then the actual buffet, the things that were in the buffet, I was looking at it.

[118] I'm like, I think we chose these items when we were all hungry.

[119] That's a really good point.

[120] There was tacos.

[121] There was like sliders.

[122] Yes.

[123] Pulled pork sliders.

[124] I ate a bunch of those.

[125] And then there was like, what was on the left?

[126] There was Nashville hot chicken and chicken and waffles.

[127] Oh, both.

[128] So someone was stoned or hungry at exactly right when they ordered.

[129] And the best thing, I don't know if you got to experience the cornbread.

[130] Oh, yes, their cornbread is ridiculous.

[131] The cornbread, and it's going to sound like I'm exaggerating and I am not, the cornbread each piece was the size of a grown man's, a tall grown man's hand.

[132] And it was the thickness, like it was like four inches thick.

[133] It was like a brick, heavy brick.

[134] A brick of cornbread that everyone was like laughing like, I got a piece of cornbread.

[135] And then later people were cutting them up before they took them.

[136] But like me, Hannah, a bunch of people were just like, no, I'm taking this.

[137] Well, it was so good.

[138] It was like jalapeno cornbread.

[139] It was so freaking good.

[140] I'm a freak for cornbread.

[141] So we had cornbread waffles.

[142] I love cornbread.

[143] It is the greatest.

[144] We definitely had a good time.

[145] And yeah, it is so good meeting people in person and not just on Zoom.

[146] And thankfully, that afternoon I had the idea for name tags.

[147] Yes.

[148] Because we needed it.

[149] That was a real brain.

[150] What am I looking for, ironically?

[151] A socially awkward person's great idea.

[152] Yep.

[153] That's what I was looking for.

[154] It really worked because I think it's very difficult to learn people's names when you only interact with them on Zoom.

[155] Yeah.

[156] Unless they're in your department or like you talk to them all the time.

[157] And then every one significant other, we got to like actually know their names.

[158] That was cool.

[159] It was really nice.

[160] And, you know, let me just say this.

[161] We have the exactly right network and all the shows we get to host on that because of you, the listener.

[162] Because we have listeners that have been showing up for us for seven years straight in a massive way.

[163] And it enables us to do this network, which is one of the coolest things.

[164] I've ever done in my life.

[165] Yeah, you're the fucking CEO and head of this incredible network.

[166] It's amazing.

[167] It's pretty amazing.

[168] And then we just, we truly have the coolest stuff.

[169] I don't know.

[170] Steven, anyone you hate.

[171] I'm going to cut this later.

[172] And I love everybody.

[173] It was truly the best time.

[174] I like the idea of putting, if we printed out what we looked like on Zoom for the name tag.

[175] Just so we had the perspective.

[176] you know.

[177] That's a great idea.

[178] Oh, you're that person in the T -shirt.

[179] It's like, okay, there I recognize you.

[180] Yeah, okay.

[181] Your hair's not done, no makeup.

[182] Oh, my God.

[183] Slouched over to the side.

[184] That's right.

[185] Or we can do a photo of our dogs and cats because they're always walking around in the Zoom in the background.

[186] I'm like, this is me. Yeah.

[187] There's always like, Frank's head is just slightly above the bottom of the Zoom line.

[188] People are like, who's that next to you?

[189] I just keep thinking about that at that.

[190] looking around at everybody and feeling so excited to like see people in real life and get to talk to them and but these are all people that are right on the other side of like these recordings which I forget so you meet all the engineers and meeting Edson who also edits I believe he edits do you need a ride I mean I believe everybody has but getting to talk to people who are like oh I think you're slightly a stranger yeah I know you work here and I know who you are and I know whatever, but I don't think I know you and then they're like, but I know you because I let it your show.

[191] Yeah, I hear your voice constantly and I'm up to be like, I'm so sorry for that.

[192] I'm sorry for all the sniffles that you have to, and there's, if anyone knew how many belches were edited out of every fucking single episode.

[193] You know who knows?

[194] Steven Rydmore.

[195] Stephen knows.

[196] Yeah.

[197] We have made it so that we say, sorry, Stephen after every belch now, Like automatically, sorry, Stephen.

[198] Sorry, Stephen.

[199] Like, there's no just sorry, excuse me. Right.

[200] Sorry, Stephen, because you're going to have to cut that out.

[201] Yes.

[202] It's my little treasure.

[203] Yeah, exactly.

[204] Stephen has a super cut of belching, I'm sure.

[205] Yeah.

[206] Somewhere.

[207] Sell that on the dark web.

[208] Also, that makes me think, let's keep in the very tiny, tiny Georgia belt at the top of the show.

[209] Oh, no. Just as a fun, it's a reverse Easter egg.

[210] Okay.

[211] That was a deep throat weird belt.

[212] It wasn't you actively belching.

[213] I wasn't.

[214] Because we're on Zoom, we have to indicate to each other that we're starting the hello.

[215] Yeah.

[216] We indicate and then don't start and then keep indicating.

[217] So Georgia just had her mouth open long enough that a burp came out.

[218] So fierce.

[219] You can just tell it's the end of the school year.

[220] It's the end of the school year.

[221] Leave it in.

[222] I love it.

[223] Leave it in.

[224] Maybe one episode, maybe this episode will just leave all the burps in.

[225] I'm drinking something with bubbles in it right now.

[226] So that might be a mistake.

[227] I'm drinking some hot tea out of my brand new.

[228] Can you see what this mug says on it?

[229] Shalom.

[230] No. Yes.

[231] Really?

[232] I got a found a Shalom mug at Home Goods.

[233] Oh, I love it.

[234] Oh, they have that now?

[235] Yes.

[236] Oh, that makes me feel so included.

[237] So speaking of Exactly Right, should we do some Exactly Right Network Corner?

[238] Let's do it.

[239] Here's some highlights, everyone on our network of 32 people and a bunch of awesome shows.

[240] Daniel Henderson, co -host of I Saw What You Did, Exactly Rights, Excellent Film Podcast, is Kurt and Scotty's guest on bananas.

[241] It's a crossover episode.

[242] That's a crossover with a lot of laughter and a lot of love.

[243] Yeah, definitely.

[244] That's a good vibe, listen, if you need some good vibes.

[245] Definitely.

[246] If you have bad vibes from your family in the holidays, that's like a good vibe podcast.

[247] Escape into bananas, you will definitely escape.

[248] Yes.

[249] Then Kate Winkler -Dawson and Paul Holes will be digging into the Lindberg baby case over on this week's episode of Buried Bones.

[250] Oh, that's a dirty one.

[251] I actually looked at that when I was looking at these highlights before the show started and I was like, oh, shit, I have to listen to that one.

[252] I'm so excited.

[253] Also, if you're looking for a last -minute gift for a true crime fan or a murderer in your life, you can gift a fan cult membership.

[254] It's available on my favorite murder .com in the store.

[255] It's a really great gift for someone who wants extra my favorite murder stuff and perks and bonus videos.

[256] All kinds of stuff.

[257] And to wrap up this whole area, you know, as we mentioned, it's give Sember.

[258] It is.

[259] I just want to make something catchy that's impossible.

[260] Every December during the holidays, we like to donate money to all different charities that help people around this time of the year.

[261] So this week, we're donating $10 ,000 to Semperify an America's Fund, which cares for the country's wounded, ill, and injured service members and veterans.

[262] Thank you, veterans, for your service.

[263] Yep.

[264] One less memory from the staff party.

[265] When the desserts came out, they had full -on piccolo pizza attached to the, like, cupcake tears that they were on.

[266] And I've never seen anything like that in my life.

[267] It was like crazy sparklers coming off the top of these dessert, like, tiered dessert trays.

[268] It was so exciting.

[269] The castaway is not just for old retirees in Burbank anymore.

[270] That's right.

[271] They got a mean cheeseplate too.

[272] Check that out.

[273] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[274] Absolutely.

[275] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[276] Exactly.

[277] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[278] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[279] That's right.

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[281] Give your point of sales system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

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[284] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[285] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can't too.

[286] Connect with customers in line and online.

[287] Do retail right with Shopify.

[288] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[289] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[290] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[291] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[292] Goodbye.

[293] This week is going to be my story.

[294] So back in September, somebody with the Twitter handle at Caitlin Corp, like it's a corporation.

[295] called Caitlin.

[296] They tweeted this to me. Karen, have you read about the no -tech torture killings?

[297] I just read, if you tell, by Greg Olson, and it was insane.

[298] Please read and consider this horrific and tragic story.

[299] Wow.

[300] So thank you for this awful, awful suggestion, Caitlin.

[301] As Caitlin says, this is a horrible story that I'm going to do this week.

[302] Okay.

[303] And it does include just a trigger warning.

[304] It does include discussion of attempted suicide, physical abuse, sexual abuse, child abuse.

[305] so please use caution and discretion when you listen.

[306] And you can check our show notes for the full list of sources, but the main source for the story is the book, Caitlin Corp, referenced, which is Greg Olson's book, if you tell.

[307] Now, what's fascinating about that is the book is written by Greg Olson, who's a journalist, that the daughters involved in this story, they contacted this journalist to get him to write this book and tell the true story of basically their lives and what they lived through.

[308] Wow.

[309] You'll find it at the end, but very cool.

[310] And Marin, our researcher, she made a note saying it's a very compelling read.

[311] It goes really fast, and it is the most comprehensive writing that you can find on this case.

[312] So if you're interested in this case, you should definitely read if you tell by Greg Olson.

[313] Okay, so we start in late July of 2003, and we're in Seattle, and there's three sisters, Nikki, 28.

[314] Sammy 24, and Tori, who's 14, their last name's No Tech, and they're all together in a restaurant.

[315] Nikki and Sammy live in Seattle.

[316] Tori has come in for a weekend visit from their hometown of Raymond Washington, about a two -hour drive away.

[317] It's actually very out of the ordinary that the girl's mother would let Tori come on this trip to Seattle, and Tori actually feels very uncomfortable being there because her middle sister, Sammy, did not tell her that their oldest sister, Nikki, was going to be on this trip.

[318] And they certainly didn't tell their mother.

[319] Nikki has cut all ties with her parents when she left home.

[320] And so basically, Tori grew up hearing her mother talking about Nikki, saying all these horrible things about her and basically filling her head with all these things that she thought about her oldest sister.

[321] But now that they're all together, Tori can see that Nikki is actually kind, trustworthy and understanding and very self -assured.

[322] Nikki and Sammy both know, the reason Sammy got Nikki to come is because they both know that Tori needs their help.

[323] So the three girls do what their mother has long feared they would do.

[324] They start talking to each other.

[325] Oh, shit.

[326] And what they talk about is the horrific abuse that they have suffered at their mother's hands and the humiliation and the violence that permeated their childhood home.

[327] And they talk about the people who stayed at their mother's house, and then mysteriously disappeared.

[328] And as they do, their mother's years of careful manipulation and lies that were used to pit these girls against each other comes undone.

[329] And together, these sisters decide that it's time to bring their mother to justice.

[330] So they hatch a plan to expose their family home as a crime scene and their mother, Shelley Notek, as a serial abuser and sadistic murderer.

[331] What the sisters don't know is at that same moment back in Raymond, their mother is burying the body of her latest victim in her backyard.

[332] What?

[333] Yeah.

[334] This is the story of convicted murderer Shelly NoTech and the bravery of her three daughters, Nikki, Sammy, and Torrey.

[335] Shit, it's like so heavy already.

[336] Isn't that crazy?

[337] Yeah.

[338] Okay, so when we first looked into this story and I was like, it sounds, you know, the way Caitlin Corp told me about it, it sounds so horrible, so extreme.

[339] And those ones can be so awful to tie through.

[340] It's just like leave them to the bigger.

[341] Right.

[342] more polished podcasts that can kind of handle that stuff.

[343] But there's a thing about this that I'm very compelled by, which is that thing of people's violence increasing and kind of contorting as the years go by if they go unchecked, if they find the right people to abuse.

[344] And it's kind of what this feels like.

[345] It's also fascinating because it would be very interesting to know if this woman would be diagnosed as a psychopath or what, Like, what is the actual story behind it?

[346] Like, how do you become this sadistic?

[347] Or are you born this way?

[348] Right.

[349] So let's go back to 1950 and talk about Shelley's childhood.

[350] So she's from Battleground, Washington, not far from the Oregon border, which it's a quintessential small town.

[351] Everyone knows everyone.

[352] And there's a local named Les Watson, who's a big fish in this small pond.

[353] He's a businessman who owns retirement homes and a very popular bowling alley.

[354] and in the book, if you tell, he's described as, quote, quick -witted and could pour on the charm.

[355] He's a smooth talker and a master of BS.

[356] So eventually, Les meets and marries, a beautiful local woman named Laura Stallings.

[357] And the day after their wedding, Laura picks up the phone and is shocked to hear Les' first wife, Sharon, angrily asking, when are you coming to get these damn kids?

[358] Happy honeymoon.

[359] Oh, shit.

[360] So when Laura confronts less about this, he admits that he did promise his ex -wife he will raise their children, Shelly and Chuck.

[361] He explains that these kids can't stay with their mother anymore because she's, quote, depressive and alcoholic.

[362] So Laura agrees to help raise her new husband's kids.

[363] Chuck is three and Shelley is six.

[364] There's an infant boy named Paul that is so young he stays with the mother, which is disastrous, actually.

[365] Yeah.

[366] So immediately, Lara, when the kids arrive, Laura notices that Chuck and Shelley have a strange connection.

[367] Shelly seems to control her little brother, who's very passive and quiet.

[368] She does almost all of his talking for him.

[369] She also notices that as the kids settle in, Shelly becomes increasingly cruel towards her new stepmom.

[370] Laura later says that Shelley, quote, told me every single day that she hated me. I'm not joking, it was honestly every day.

[371] Wow.

[372] So meanwhile, Sharon's alcoholism keeps her completely out of the children's lives.

[373] And even though Les has been made aware that his youngest son Paul is now developing severe behavioral problems living with Sharon, he doesn't do anything to intervene.

[374] And that results in 1967, Los Angeles police officers calling Les to tell him, Sharon has been beaten to death in a Skid Row hotel, and he needs to come and pick up his youngest son, Paul.

[375] Oh, my God.

[376] Horrifying.

[377] I mean, it's pretty obvious, but Skid Row, in that area of Los Angeles, it's very rough.

[378] So the idea that a depressed alcoholic woman has her child with her in one of those hotels is just like, no, please.

[379] So sad, yeah.

[380] So Laura Lessa's new wife does her best to give these children love, compassion, and a stable home, but they're all struggling with different behavioral issues.

[381] Chuck just could not talk unless Shelley spoke for him and Paul was described as quote, wild.

[382] He was like an animal.

[383] Then on top of that, Laura eventually has two more children with less and since less is usually working, Laura has her hands extremely full.

[384] But is far and away, Shelley who gives Laura the most grief.

[385] She does not act like a normal child in any way.

[386] In fact, she's scary.

[387] Lara says that, quote, everything was a big drama with her, every little thing.

[388] Shelly always looked distraught and upset.

[389] Whatever we did, wherever we went, no matter what it was.

[390] Even doing something nice for her like giving her a gift brought anger.

[391] But that anger came out in disturbing ways.

[392] She allegedly, quote, used to chop up bits of glass and put them in the bottom of the kids' shoes.

[393] Oh, my God.

[394] When Shelley is informed about her mother's death, she has almost no reaction.

[395] I can't help but feel so sad for this little girl who's going through so much trauma over and over again.

[396] And, of course, she's acting out and behaving badly, like, no wonder.

[397] Right.

[398] That's the thing about this.

[399] So it's like, it could be so many things, but it's like, is this because she was raised by an alcoholic where basically none of these kids got their needs met in those early developmental stages where that actually affects their brain.

[400] It changes their brain when they're not held, not, you know, left alone, neglected, whatever it is.

[401] It does real damage.

[402] Is it that?

[403] And then all of that is kind of like acting out when she finally is being met.

[404] She's like she wants to punish everybody or was she always like that?

[405] Was it going to be like that no matter what?

[406] So her later behavior kind of indicates that maybe it was a little something more organic to her.

[407] When she's 15 years old, she falsely accuses.

[408] her father of rape.

[409] This claim is taken very seriously and it's investigated fully and it is ultimately determined to be a lie.

[410] And Shelley's parents actually find a copy of a magazine called True Confessions under her bed.

[411] It had a dog -eared article entitled, I was raped at 15 by my dad.

[412] Oh, shit.

[413] So then they kind of thought they saw where she got the story and where she got the details from.

[414] She gets expelled from high school and then the Watson seek treatment for her.

[415] They start family therapy.

[416] They're trying to support her.

[417] She's still acting unpredictably and sadistically.

[418] In fact, she actually seems happy to have almost blown up her family with this false accusation.

[419] But even still, Les and Laura pulled together and they try to do what's best for Shelly.

[420] So they look for a new school that'll accept her, even with a rough behavioral record.

[421] And they find one about two hours away in Hoodsport, Washington, and she's enrolled, and then she's sent to live with Laura's parents, so her new grandparents, whose home is closer to the school, but as you can guess, this doesn't go well.

[422] Laura's parents are shocked by Shelley's behavior.

[423] She goes from acting empathetic and kind to being a complete terror.

[424] There's all kinds of anecdotal stuff in the book about this.

[425] One of them is that she advertised in the neighborhood her services as a babysitter, and she was very vocal about how excited and honored she was going to be to watch the neighborhood children so much so that she was willing to do it for free.

[426] But when the parents come home after Shelly stays with their kids, things seem off.

[427] One example from the book, parents come home to find, quote, their children in bed with their clothes still on and stories of how Shelly barricaded them in their rooms with heavy furniture.

[428] Oh, dear.

[429] So Shelley's stint in Hoodsport ends within months of her arrival after she makes yet another false sexual assault claim this time against her father.

[430] So when the school year ends, her grandparents sent her back to battleground and then the Watson's once again have to find a school that will take her.

[431] She gets sent to a Catholic school in Beaverton, Oregon.

[432] But only a few weeks later, the nuns have had enough of Shelly.

[433] That's really saying something.

[434] Oh, really?

[435] Catholic nuns are like reformed school, especially back then.

[436] Yeah.

[437] When they, what's it called, corporal punishment?

[438] Corporal punishment.

[439] Yeah.

[440] When my sister was in sixth grade, her nun teacher, and so this was like 1982, took off a boy's glasses and slapped him across a face for talking in class.

[441] Oh, my God.

[442] They're all about that corporal punishment, and these nuns were just like, no, we can't handle this.

[443] It's beyond our thing.

[444] The nuns accused Shelly of stealing from her classmates and putting broken glass into a classmate's shoe.

[445] She ends up getting sent to Pennsylvania to go to school.

[446] There she lives with Lessa's sister and brother -in -law, and she apparently creates so much chaos and tension in her aunt and uncle's lives that they end up getting a divorce.

[447] But she ends up staying in Pennsylvania and finishing high school, and she falls in love with a classmate named Randy.

[448] By this time, she's grown into a gorgeous young woman.

[449] She convinces Randy to move back to battleground with her.

[450] And in 1973, when they're 19 -year -old, old, they get married.

[451] But their relationship is never good.

[452] She's manipulative and abusive.

[453] She lies constantly when they decide to get married.

[454] She forgets to send his half of the wedding invitations.

[455] So he has no friends or family at the ceremony.

[456] She's unable to hold down a job.

[457] Her father tries to give her job at his businesses and he has to fire her.

[458] That puts a lot of financial strain on her young husband as he's the only breadwinner.

[459] But, Shelly berates him for not earning more.

[460] In 1975, she gives birth to a baby girl that they named Nikki, but by this point, Shelly and Randy's marriage is crumbling under Shelly's constant abuse.

[461] She starts locking Randy out of the house with so much regularity that he's always sleeping in the car.

[462] That's kind of where he sleeps.

[463] Eventually, Randy finds a way to leave Shelly, and when he does, she gets her revenge by racking up a ton of debt in his name, and then she completely cuts off all access to Nikki, which devastates him.

[464] So not long after that divorce, Shelly finds a new man named Danny, and they have a baby girl named Samantha.

[465] And Shelly and Danny hastily married just months before Sammy's born, but their relationship ends pretty much the same way as Shelley's first marriage does.

[466] And this is hard on Nikki because she's old enough to have formed a close relationship with Danny, and she considers him her father.

[467] But Shelly has no empathy for that at all.

[468] New men begin cycling through their lives.

[469] And every time Shelly demands that her daughters refer to them as dad.

[470] Right?

[471] As you may have put together, Shelly's not a kind or caring mother unless people are watching.

[472] And then she's the mother of the year.

[473] But Shelly's stepmom, Laura, has serious concerns that her granddaughters are being neglected behind closed doors.

[474] And in reality, things are worse than she could ever imagine.

[475] In the book, Nikki talks about a disturbing, faint childhood memory of waking up one morning to her mother holding a pillow over her face.

[476] When Nikki comes to, Shelly tells her that she was having a bad dream.

[477] Oh, God.

[478] So it's very, very dark and scary.

[479] So now it's 1982.

[480] Shelly's 28 years old, Nikki's 7 and Sammy is 4.

[481] And that April, Shelly meets a man named Dave Notek.

[482] There at a bar called The Sorth thumb in Long Beach, Washington, and Dave is blown away by Shelley's beauty.

[483] He assumes that she's out of his league.

[484] He's just, as he is, self -proclaimed country guy, and he isn't sure that his humble background will impress a woman like her.

[485] But he works up the courage to ask her for her number that night, and she gives it to him.

[486] And then Marin makes a side note and says, the sore thumb burned to the ground that same night, which feels like some type of omen.

[487] What?

[488] Holy shit.

[489] The bar they met at burned to the ground.

[490] Wow.

[491] So Dave falls hard for Shelly and Dave turns out to be Shelley's type.

[492] He's compliant.

[493] He's passive and he has someone she can walk all over.

[494] And before long Shelley, Nikki and Sammy move into Dave's apartment in Raymond Washington.

[495] But he genuinely adores his girlfriend's daughters and everything seems to be going well until the day that Shelley drops a bombshell.

[496] She tells Dave she's been diagnosed with cancer and she's not going to live past the age of 30.

[497] So Dave immediately proposes they marry on December 28, 1987, and the family moves out of Dave's apartment and they get a new house in a remote part of town.

[498] She does not have cancer.

[499] I'm pretty sure I didn't need to tell you that, but the cancer is a thing she basically uses and tells the lie about to get people to do what she wants or to get empathy or whatever.

[500] Yeah.

[501] And it comes back into her life whenever that's what she needs to kind of manipulate people.

[502] So insane.

[503] So when they get into their new house, the marriage, like all of her others, is awful, and she's verbally and physically abusive to Dave.

[504] She constantly braids him for not making enough money and not being a good father.

[505] And basically, things just start to go off the rails.

[506] The girls remember how even after their parents' very worst fights where Shelly would punch and slap and verbally abused Dave, he would never fight back.

[507] He would never leave her.

[508] he just waits for the dust to settle and for Shelly to kind of go back to being fun and bubbly and affectionate, which she always would do.

[509] So Dave is clearly trapped in the cycle of violence.

[510] It's like Shelly has different personalities.

[511] So eventually Dave lands a job in a different town, so he ends up having to spend weekdays and nights away from the house and then comes home on the weekends.

[512] And this arrangement leaves Shelley alone with her two daughters, most days of the week, and this is when something shifts.

[513] Up until now, Dave's taken the brunt of their mother's abuse, but with him gone, the girls are the subject of Shelley's abuse.

[514] So she has these very strict, insane rules around the house.

[515] Like, they're not allowed to use the bathroom without asking her for permission first.

[516] Not the usual, like, being really clean and being really, whatever.

[517] But it's like weird, creepy, crazy rules like that.

[518] Yeah.

[519] And if they don't obey those rules, the pun of them.

[520] are severe.

[521] Shelly goes after Nikki, particularly harshly.

[522] She's the oldest.

[523] So she starts this punishment with Nikki called wallowing, where she makes her go outside, take off all her clothes, and roll around in the freezing cold mud.

[524] What?

[525] Yeah.

[526] And then while she sprays her with a hose.

[527] Oh, God, that's so sadistic.

[528] It's so gross.

[529] And then after she makes her take a burning hot shower.

[530] Oh, God.

[531] And what's really kind of gross and saddesty, about that relationship is eventually she starts getting Dave to do it too.

[532] Dave is a victim of her abuse, but then also, if I can get you to be nice to me and do, if I do what you want, I won't get it.

[533] Somebody else will get it.

[534] At one point, Shelley actually pushes Nikki through a sliding glass door, which of course cuts her face up.

[535] It causes her to bleed profusely.

[536] It's a very serious injury, but Shelley will not take her to the hospital.

[537] And this is the one and only time Nikki can remember her mother ever expressing any remorse for what she's done.

[538] Shit.

[539] Nikki later says that her body is so bruised from her mom's beatings that she wears tights under her volleyball shorts so she can play on her high school team and not be found out.

[540] God, that's heartbreaking.

[541] It's horrible.

[542] And meanwhile, Sammy's watching her big sister go through all of this abuse and basically knows it's happening to her, it won't happen to me. So she's kind of making up her own strategies and coping.

[543] mechanisms.

[544] Sammy basically becomes very skilled at sweet talking her mom.

[545] So it doesn't always work, of course, and Sammy is beaten and humiliated when it doesn't.

[546] After the worst attacks on her daughters, Shelly then snaps back into acting like a different person.

[547] She's suddenly doting and loving and kind.

[548] So it's just psycho house.

[549] It's just like a nightmare.

[550] And that same mask is the mask she puts on for the rest of the world.

[551] So people on the outside have absolutely no idea what's going on in the No Tech House.

[552] And that's not just because the threat of Shelly's violent punishments basically secure her daughter's silence.

[553] Shelly also makes sure that her girls are always dressed nicely.

[554] They get good grades.

[555] They have active social lives.

[556] She constantly volunteers and donates to local charities.

[557] And all of it is just to cover so nothing, it doesn't seem like anything's off with the family.

[558] Shelly's careful to only inflict wounds that can be covered with clothes or makeup.

[559] She's shrewd and she's committed to presenting herself as a wonderful loving mom.

[560] And that's like, to me, the grossest version.

[561] That's like when it gets into the evil because there are abusive families that it's almost just like inherited problems, generational trauma that you have.

[562] And it's just kind of like, well, this is normal to me getting hit in the face or whatever.

[563] But this is next level because it's like She knows it's wrong and is covering it up and continuing to do it.

[564] Yeah.

[565] And it's getting increasingly bad.

[566] In late 1988, Shelly opens her family home to two people who are down on their luck.

[567] Her 13 -year -old nephew Shane Watson and her 30 -year -old friend, Kathy Loreno.

[568] So the first person to move in is 13 -year -old Shane.

[569] He's the son of Shelley's youngest brother, Paul, who's been in and out of prison.

[570] And Shane's mother is struggling with addiction.

[571] so neither of them are able to take care of him.

[572] So he comes to his aunt Shelley's house looking for stability.

[573] He instantly fits in with his cousins.

[574] They're all around the same age.

[575] They all get along great.

[576] Shane eventually begins to call Shelley and Dave, mom and dad.

[577] A few months later, right around Christmas, Shelly's, air quotes, best friend Kathy Loreno, moves in.

[578] Kathy's also at a very vulnerable point in her life.

[579] She is going through a divorce, and she just lost her job as a hairder.

[580] dresser.

[581] So it's around this time Shelley learns that she's pregnant.

[582] So she invites Kathy to move in and help her with the baby.

[583] And that sounds like a great arrangement for both of them because Dave is still working out of town.

[584] Shelly already has the three kids to look after.

[585] So in exchange for help with chores, the children and eventually the new baby, Kathy's going to get free room and board and a place to get back on her feet all while living with her best friend.

[586] Yeah.

[587] And of course, at first, everything's wonderful.

[588] When Kathy joins the no -tech household, she's a loving, brassy, joyful woman, and she's a stark difference from Shelly who sucks the life out of every room she enters.

[589] So Shane and Kathy being around actually kind of balance everything out and everything kind of starts to feel normal and even good around the house.

[590] In June of 1989, Shelly gives birth to her third daughter, Tori.

[591] And what Shelly loves is the way this entire scenario makes her look to the outside world.

[592] So people see her as this selfless mother of three who is still willing to take in friends and family in need even while her husband is working out of town.

[593] Like, what an amazing woman.

[594] Yeah, it's all about image.

[595] Yeah, right.

[596] The honeymoon period doesn't last long and soon Shelley's back to her old ways and now her cruelty and her sadism seem to be progressing.

[597] 13 -year -old Shane is subjected to increasingly terrible abuse from his aunt.

[598] So again, her weird rules, you know, there's all kinds of ways you can fuck up in this house.

[599] And so he gets punished first his pillows get taken away.

[600] Then she takes his bed away.

[601] She starts making him go be wallowed alongside Nikki.

[602] So they're both out naked rolling around in the mud and being hosed down.

[603] He starts being put into that cycle too.

[604] Even more disturbing.

[605] Sometimes Shelley forces Shane and Nikki to strip naked in.

[606] and slow dance together while she watches and laughs.

[607] Oh, God.

[608] This is sadistic.

[609] It's really extreme.

[610] It's really disturbing.

[611] But the No -Tex sisters will later attest that it's Kathy who takes the worst of Shelly's abuse.

[612] So at first, Kathy's a total Shelly loyalist.

[613] She completely believes She's claim of having cancer, which, as I said, conveniently reemerges whenever need be.

[614] So it's completely a fake.

[615] She does not have.

[616] have cancer, and she's actually very bad at faking that she has cancer.

[617] Yeah.

[618] So when she wants people to think that she's getting chemotherapy, she shaves off her eyebrows, or she'll cut a few inches off of her hair in a straight line and then says that's from chemotherapy.

[619] What?

[620] So Shelly's stepmom, Laura, immediately calls bullshit on the cancer diagnosis, and she notices that Shelly refuses to let anyone but Kathy drop her off at her chemo sessions.

[621] But no one's ever actually gone inside to the hospital.

[622] with Shelly to be there for when she gets chemo.

[623] No one's witnessed it.

[624] Laura suspects that Shelly's pocketing the money for the fake medical bills and using it to buy things for herself.

[625] And when she finally asks Shelly for evidence to prove that she has cancer, it's actually Kathy who tells her to back off and defends her from.

[626] So Kathy has clearly been kind of slowly brainwashed and indoctrinated into this household and the way Shelley kind of runs things.

[627] and Kathy believes everything Shelly says.

[628] This enables Shelly to cut her off from her family and friends.

[629] It's very similar to cult stuff.

[630] Yeah.

[631] Where it's just like the slow.

[632] Everything's kind of great.

[633] There's the honeymoon period.

[634] Then it's like those outsiders and those others are bad and we're good.

[635] Yeah.

[636] All that.

[637] When Kathy breaks one of Shelly's rules, Shelly takes away her clothes and forces her to do grueling chores completely naked.

[638] So just abject humiliation.

[639] Yeah.

[640] Yeah.

[641] Or she makes Kathy right around in the trunk of the family car.

[642] In one horrifying incident, the girls remember Shelly and Dave, who, you know, as we said, has become a part of this abuse.

[643] They forced Kathy to slide naked on her stomach down a snowbank over and over until the skin on her stomach basically breaks open and there's a trail of blood going down the snow bank.

[644] Oh, my God.

[645] She also forces her to shower outside the house and only using bleach.

[646] Oh, my God.

[647] So it burns her skin.

[648] She also starts controlling Kathy's eating.

[649] So she just starts starving her.

[650] She sometimes only feeds her salt or makes weird concoctions with rotten food.

[651] Kathy ends up losing over 100 pounds staying in this house over time.

[652] But as physically and mentally weakened as she becomes, she's still.

[653] manages to escape a couple of times, but Shelley always finds her and always brings her back.

[654] And they say that Shelley seems to delight in hunting her down.

[655] Oh, my God.

[656] So throughout all of this, the children are forced to witness these horrifying acts of abuse and they feel powerless and they know that Kathy is basically taking Shelley's hate and violence and it's sparing them.

[657] So Kathy was partially doing it to help the kids Like she knew if she fought it or did anything different It could go to one of them So she just would do it Wow And that's not to say Shelly Isn't still violent toward the children Even to baby Tori Nikki actually remembers walking in on Shelley Holding a pillow over Tori's face But as soon as Shelley sees Nikki She stops and then holds the baby close like she's a loving mother, but Nikki doesn't buy it.

[658] And in fact, witnessing this horror scene kind of does something to her, she can now really see how clearly her mother is masterfully brainwashing and manipulating and using violence to control everyone in the house.

[659] So in 1994, the family moves into a new house that's in an even more remote area.

[660] Kathy's health begins to rapidly decline.

[661] She has been starved and, humiliated and physically and verbally abused on a regular basis.

[662] But now Shelly just begins to outright assault Kathy any time she wants to.

[663] She pushes her down the stairs.

[664] She kicks her when she hits the floor.

[665] She throws her into walls.

[666] At one point, this is insane and horrifying.

[667] She and Dave repurpose a seesaw and they waterboard her.

[668] Oh, my God.

[669] Kathy's weak.

[670] Her hair and teeth are falling out.

[671] The girls notice that her mind seems hazy like she's, maybe gotten a brain injury from all this abuse.

[672] And finally, one day Kathy collapses in the No -Tex laundry room.

[673] Dave is there when it happens and he tries to perform CPR on her, but it's too late.

[674] Kathy Loreno is dead and she's 36 years old.

[675] Oh, my God.

[676] Kathy's death actually seems to shock Shelly.

[677] And later, Sammy would say, quote, I don't think she meant to kill Kathy.

[678] I think she meant to abuse Kathy just like she abused us.

[679] She got off on it.

[680] She liked the power.

[681] She liked doing it, and it just got worse and worse.

[682] So Shelly tells Dave he has to burn Kathy's body on their property.

[683] And then they take her ashes and they just scatter them around the state.

[684] Like they just go driving around and scattering them.

[685] And then Shelley invents a cover story.

[686] She sits all the kids down and asks them about Kathy's boyfriend Rocky, who is not real and was totally invented by her.

[687] she starts saying things to the girls and Shane like you remember him right or we had dinner with him once right and she drills this into the children's heads repeating over and over Kathy ran off with her trucker boyfriend Rocky they basically have to go along with it if they question her in any way she punishes them so it's just like right she left with Rocky yeah so by this time in 1995 Shane's also tried to escape the house a couple of times once he even makes it all the way to Tacoma where he sleeps on the streets for a few nights but every time he gets away Shelley finds him and brings him back and then in February of 1995 Shane tells Nikki that he's collected Polaroid photos from when Kathy was alive that show her beaten and starved and he wants to bring them to the police but sadly and unfortunately Shelley somehow discovers that he has this plan which is very, like, makes a lot of sense for those psycho -controlling people where, you know, she's eavesdropping, she's doing it, she sees two people talking, like, she knows...

[688] She's like manipulating, yeah.

[689] Yeah, and kind of, it's that massive control issue.

[690] Yeah.

[691] So she somehow finds out, so she basically goes to Dave and starts kind of seeding these ideas into Dave's head that Shane is a threat to them.

[692] Shane is going to do something to them.

[693] Shane is dangerous.

[694] Shane needs to be taken out.

[695] And Shane's like a son to Dave.

[696] So he resists this kind of idea at first.

[697] But Shelley just keeps on working at him and working at him and won't let it go.

[698] It takes some time.

[699] But Dave eventually goes along with it and he does what she says.

[700] He goes into Shane's room and shoots him in the back of the head.

[701] Holy shit.

[702] When Dave goes to tell Shelley, that he's finally done it, she acts shocked.

[703] Oh, no. So fucked.

[704] She tells Dave she can't believe he would actually kill Shane.

[705] Shane Watson was only 19 years old.

[706] So again, Shelley and Dave burn his body.

[707] They scatter his ashes across the state.

[708] And then to cover their tracks, they tell the girls that their cousins run away to Alaska.

[709] They also tell this story, Laura, Shane's grandmother, every time she calls.

[710] and Nikki and Sammy are distraught without Shane.

[711] He's their brother.

[712] Like, you know, they've grown up with him.

[713] They've gone through true trauma with him.

[714] And it just doesn't make sense to them that he would just drop out of their lives like this.

[715] And actually, because of all this kind of compounding trauma that they're all going through, in the following months after Shane supposedly leaves the house, both girls attempt to take their own lives.

[716] Oh, my God.

[717] So without Shane, and Kathy around, Nikki becomes her mom's prime target once again.

[718] But here's the difference.

[719] Nikki's in her late teens, and now she is the same size as her mother.

[720] So one day when her mother tries to beat her, Nikki fights back and pushes Shelly to the floor.

[721] And this rattles Shelly, and it also makes Nikki realize this is the time she's going to leave.

[722] She's got to go.

[723] And so she moves out.

[724] Once she's gone, Shelly starts telling Sammy and Tori lies about their sister that Nikki wants nothing to do with them anymore and, you know, just basically the hate campaign begins against Nikki because she escaped.

[725] Yeah.

[726] Nikki, of course, has extreme guilt for leaving her sisters with their mother and she often writes some letters, but of course, Shelly intercepts all of them so the girls never know that Nikki wants to get a hold of them.

[727] Yeah.

[728] And now Shelly turns her focus to Sammy.

[729] So in 1997, Shelly sabotages Sammy college application, and that is the final straw for Sammy.

[730] She finally fights back.

[731] She threatens to go to the police with information about Kathy Loreno's death unless her mom cooperates with her college application process.

[732] And this threat actually works.

[733] Wow.

[734] So Sammy successfully reapplies and she eventually leaves home for college.

[735] But unlike Nikki, who's been completely cut off from the family, Sammy intentionally stays connected to her mother because she knows she has.

[736] has to keep that communication open to make sure that she can stay in touch with Tori.

[737] So that Tori is okay.

[738] But Tori is not okay because she is now stuck at home alone with Shelly.

[739] Of course, she becomes the focus of Shelly's rage.

[740] She beats and humiliates her.

[741] She does weird, crazy things.

[742] She makes her stuff her clothes with garbage.

[743] As she's beginning puberty, she critiques her naked body.

[744] It's around this time that Tori finds a zizi.

[745] Ziplock bag filled with human bones in her mother's bedroom.

[746] Oh, my God.

[747] Yeah.

[748] She doesn't know what to do with it.

[749] So she just puts it back under the bed where she found it and she stays quiet.

[750] Yeah.

[751] And before long, Shelly has invited another friend to live with them.

[752] His name's Ron Woodworth.

[753] He's a 57 -year -old military veteran who's fallen on hard times.

[754] Ron is by all accounts a super sweet man who really cares about other people.

[755] In fact, he and Shelly meet through their work connections to Habitat for Humanity.

[756] But Ron is struggling with addiction.

[757] He's grieving his father's recent death.

[758] And he's just divorced his husband.

[759] So Shelly is there for him and they become super close.

[760] And she eventually invites him to live with her.

[761] And of course, he's so grateful he really needs somewhere to go.

[762] So the cycle begins again.

[763] So for the first few days, everything's amazing.

[764] Shelly is an excellent attentive host and Ron and Tori form a very sweet, close relationship.

[765] She has somebody else there.

[766] She has like kind of an ally and a friend, someone that's actually nice.

[767] She starts to call him Uncle Ron.

[768] But of course, all this joy and happiness begins to fade very fast.

[769] Within the first month of Ron's stay at the home, Shelly starts with her little insults, dials it up to verbal abuse.

[770] From there, she cuts him off from his friends and family.

[771] she makes him write a letter to his mother blaming her for his father's death and that with the sole intention of sabotaging their relationship.

[772] It's one thing to like have uncontrollable rage and punch a person but like that is so sinister.

[773] Totally.

[774] And destructive and it isn't really it's not connected to her immediate control.

[775] It is very culty in that way that you're right about.

[776] Yeah.

[777] From there, it's a quick, calculated dissent into relentless physical and mental torture.

[778] Shelly bans Ron from using the bathrooms inside the house.

[779] She makes him drink the urine that she finds hidden in bottles in his room.

[780] Oh, no. She takes his clothes away.

[781] She subjects him to brutal chores, calls him gay slurs.

[782] She makes him sleep on the floor.

[783] Of course, Tori is heartbroken seeing this happen.

[784] She loves Ron, and that isn't lost on Shelley.

[785] who increasingly uses their bond as another means of torture, at one point she makes Ron ignore Tori and act like she doesn't exist, which devastates both of them.

[786] And later, when Ron tries to escape, Shelley uses Tori as a pawn to get him to come back, and it works every time.

[787] So at this point, Nikki and Sammy are in their mid -20s.

[788] They're trying to build new lives far away from their mother, and Nikki's still totally cut off from her whole family except for her sister, Sammy.

[789] So Sammy has to make Shelly believe that she does not communicate with her older sister.

[790] But Nikki never stops thinking of her family, and as time passes, she becomes more and more committed to bringing her mother to justice.

[791] Eventually, she goes to her grandmother, Laura, and tells her grandmother everything, the abuse, the torture, and the weird circumstances around both Kathy and Shane's disappearances.

[792] So in 2001, Laura and Nikki go to the police with a super detailed statement that they hope will kickstart an investigation.

[793] But the police don't do anything with the information.

[794] Still, Nikki won't give up.

[795] She sees how much better life is outside of her family home.

[796] And she wants that for her little sister, Tori, and anyone else that her mother may have lured in.

[797] But meanwhile, back in Raymond, Shelly's gotten a job at an assisted living facility, which is a nightmare.

[798] Yeah.

[799] And so she basically is playing the part of the suite dedicated caretaker in front of everybody.

[800] And at this place, she meets an 81 -year -old retiree named James McClintock, who goes by the name Mack.

[801] And people notice Shelly buttering him up, being sickly sweet every time he's around, telling him that she sees him as a father figure.

[802] Eventually, Mac moves back into his own home.

[803] But Shelly maintains their connection.

[804] She forces Ron to give Mac round -the -clock care in his home and then basically pockets all of Ron's earnings for that work.

[805] Then around September 2001, Mack alters his will so that his $140 ,000 estate goes to Shelley, but only after the death of his beloved Black Lab Sissy.

[806] So just a few months later, in February of 2002, Mack dies from a head wound after an accidental fall.

[807] So his death has never officially been linked to Shelley, but it should be noted that only Shelley, Ron, and Mac were in Mack's home at the time of his death.

[808] Okay.

[809] Yeah.

[810] So there are many people who immediately find his death suspicious, including Kathy's mother, Kay, who's still searching for her daughter.

[811] So now Shelley takes her abuse of Ron to a whole new level after Max's death, almost like she's punishing him for it.

[812] Meanwhile, the few friends Ron is still connected to notice there's something very wrong with him.

[813] This man who'd spent so much of his life being fun, loving, and bubbly looks sick and deflated and then they stopped seeing him altogether and then in August of 2003, Ron falls off the roof at Shelley's house while doing handiwork.

[814] Clearly has broken bones from this fall but not only does Shelley not take him to the hospital, she demands that he walk onto their deck, climb onto its railing and jump onto the gravel road below.

[815] He does this reluctantly of course each time he lands, he's crying from the pain when Shelly finally tells him he can stop, she mixes hot scalding water with bleach and poured it onto his injured, torn -up feet to supposedly clean his wounds.

[816] Oh, my God.

[817] Tori will later say that Ron's injuries are so severe that he isn't able to walk, and then he vanishes.

[818] Oh, dear.

[819] Tori instantly knows something is very wrong.

[820] She asks her mother where Ron went, but Shelly's evasive, and she tells her to tell her, anyone who asks that Ron went to Tacoma.

[821] Shelly senses Tori's suspicion, so she decides to send Tori off to visit Sammy for the weekend in Seattle.

[822] So that's how Tori was even able to visit her sister and be out of her mother's grasp, which is like why it was so insane.

[823] This woman is insanely controlling, insanely abusive, not just going to send her daughter off to be like, well, go ahead.

[824] Right.

[825] But the truth of it is, they were burying Ron's body.

[826] And basically, Shelly waited for Dave to come home from work that weekend.

[827] And she was afraid Tori would find Ron's body before they got it buried.

[828] Yeah.

[829] And she also thought, because Sammy still maintained her connection to her mother, she thought that she still had full control over her.

[830] So in Shelly's mind, she's sending her daughter Tori to visit her daughter, Sammy, both of whom are still really scared of her.

[831] Right.

[832] Now we're back at the start of this story where Tori is now telling her sisters sitting in that restaurant together that she's worried Ron might be dead, but she doesn't have any proof.

[833] So the girls start talking about Shane and Kathy.

[834] There's a lot they don't know about these people's disappearances, but they definitely don't buy their parents' stories about what happened to them.

[835] All three have become convinced that both Kathy and Shane are dead too.

[836] so they come up with a plan to finally expose their mother's crimes.

[837] Nikki instructs Tori to go home and try to find any physical evidence that might help push the cops to actually act.

[838] She's learned the hard way that evidence is a necessity if they want the cops to take them seriously.

[839] Yeah.

[840] So Tori goes back to Raymond, alone, this teenage girl.

[841] She has to go back in alone and start looking for evidence that she can find around the house.

[842] So she finds some of Ron's belongings including pieces of clothing that have blood on them and she basically takes it all and hides it in the chicken coop outside.

[843] And a few days later, Nikki and Sammy drive down to Raymond where they tell the police their story once again but this time the police actually listen and the same day an officer goes to the No Tech's house Tori is immediately taken out of the home and put in Sammy's custody and on her way out, she tells the cops to search the chicken coop.

[844] So after finding Ron's belongings, Shelly and Dave are questioned by the police.

[845] It's unclear what Shelly tells them, but Dave immediately confesses.

[846] He tries to claim that Shane's death was accidental, but he admits to disposing of both Shane and Kathy's bodies.

[847] And then in a move that no one was expecting, Dave tells the police that Ron is dead and his remains are buried on the no -text property.

[848] So Shelly, who's now 50 years old, and Dave, who's 51, are arrested and taken to jail.

[849] Their bail's set at $5 million each.

[850] Shelly is charged with two counts of first -degree murder for Ron and Kathy's deaths.

[851] Dave is charged with first -degree murder of Shane.

[852] But when it comes to prosecuting the couple, there's a big complication.

[853] The cops don't have Kathy or Shane's bodies, and Ron's autopsy is unable to determine his cause of death, which makes getting a first -degree murder conviction.

[854] basically impossible.

[855] So because of this, Shelly and Dave take a plea deal, meaning they plead guilty to lesser charges that carry less prison time, and Shelly enters an Alford plea.

[856] No. Which means there's enough evidence to convict her, but she's maintaining her innocence, which is like such a classic psychopath move.

[857] Like, deny it till the end.

[858] Totally.

[859] Meanwhile, Dave pleads guilty to unlawfully disposing of human remains, and rendering criminal assistance, he's sentenced to 15 years in prison.

[860] Shelly gets 22 years.

[861] So Dave Notec is paroled in 2018, and when he is, he reaches out to his daughters and asks for forgiveness.

[862] Sammy and Tori are willing to give him a second chance because they consider him one of his mother's many victims.

[863] Sammy later says, quote, the reason why my mom was able to control Dave was because, while I love him, he's just a very weak man. He has no back.

[864] bone.

[865] He could have got happily married and been an amazing husband to somebody because he really would have been, but instead he just got his life ruined too.

[866] Which is such an incredibly generous, empathetic, beautiful thing after all the shit that these girls have gone through.

[867] But she's that mature to be able to say that.

[868] Totally.

[869] Nikki chooses not to forgive him.

[870] She's simply suffered too much at Dave's hands and wants nothing to do with him, which is entirely reasonable, if not completely, what you should do.

[871] In anticipation of their mother's release from prison, so basically they know when their mother's getting out.

[872] And that's why they reach out to journalist Greg Olson and they ask him to write a book about their lives in order to warn the public about Shelley's predatory, abusive, and sadistic behavior before she is released.

[873] So the book, if you tell, goes on to become a New York Times bestseller and stands as a testament to the strength and resilience and love shared by the Notech sisters, whose bravery offers an incredible contrast to the abuse and evil that they were subjected to all of their lives.

[874] Shelley Notech was released from prison last month.

[875] No way.

[876] November 2020.

[877] Wow.

[878] And I just want to say this.

[879] here, if anybody needs this information, the Child Help National Child Abuse Hotline offers crisis intervention, information, and referrals to thousands of emergency, social service, and support resources.

[880] You can call or text them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, in over 170 languages.

[881] All calls are confidential, and that number is 1 ,800 for a child, 1 -800 -4 -22 -4 -4 -53 professional crisis counselors are available 24 hours a day.

[882] And that is the horrible story of serial abuser and murderer Shelly No -Tech and the murders of Kathy Loreno, Shane Watson, and Ronald Woodworth.

[883] Whoa, that was dark.

[884] Right?

[885] And heavy.

[886] I mean, good job telling the story.

[887] Thank you.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Maron did a great job, but I think Greg Olson did God's work, getting that together.

[890] I mean, like, what an amazing thing to be like, she's going to get paroled.

[891] How is she not going to keep doing the thing that she was doing before?

[892] Yeah.

[893] She's still young enough to keep doing that stuff.

[894] Wow, those sisters are amazing.

[895] Right?

[896] Amazing women, yeah.

[897] Yeah.

[898] Good for them.

[899] Well, shit.

[900] Pretty insane.

[901] Crazy.

[902] Great job.

[903] That was a long one.

[904] That was really long.

[905] That was a long one.

[906] You must be sick of talking.

[907] I need to go put on a turtleneck and drink lemon juice or something.

[908] Okay.

[909] My instrument.

[910] I'm going to allow it.

[911] Thanks for listening, you guys, and hope you're having an okay holiday time.

[912] Yeah, you know, go outside, take several deep breaths.

[913] Yep.

[914] Maybe go ice skating on your local pond.

[915] Oh, that'd be fun.

[916] It's cold enough.

[917] It's cold enough in L .A. Right.

[918] Stay sexy.

[919] And don't get murdered.

[920] Goodbye.

[921] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[922] This has been an exactly right production.

[923] Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[924] Our producer is Alejandra Keck.

[925] This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris.

[926] Our researchers are Marin McClash and Gemma Harris.

[927] Email your hometowns and fucking hooray's to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[928] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at MyFave Murder.

[929] Goodbye.

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